Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Razor/Archive2

2008-02-03T14:42:52Z

Isidis:

{{ArchiveTOC}}

==The first Hybrid's "children"==
I can think of several possibilities:
*The Guardians
*The humanoid Cylons
*The other Hybrids
*Cylons in general
-- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:27, 25 November 2007 (CST)

== To-do list ==

Most major things have been done already, but there are some left (add if you can think of anything):

*<strike>Updating [[Peter Laird]]</strike>
*<s>Finding out who [[Riggs]] and [[Frank Bruno]] are and updating the articles</s>
*<strike>Adding some other lines to Noteworthy Dialogue</strike>
*<strike>Adding such dialogue to [[Razor Flashbacks]]. Not much to go on, but the "[[nothing but the rain]]" exchange between Adama and McGavin is good.</strike>

Razor analysis and questions will probably be done without much effort. The most major thing is getting pictures, but we better wait for DVD to do that. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 03:07, 26 November 2007 (CST)
:Riggs is the marine Kendra gives a hard time to after his squad does a weapons assembly drill. Bruno only appears in the DVD, AFAIK. He's the guy who talks to Kendra in the "coffee tent," before she posts to Pegasus. He also appears in a deleted scene with Lee. --[[User:Mmm...toasty|Mmm...toasty]] 11:48, 6 December 2007 (CST)
::Nice. Thanks :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:59, 6 December 2007 (CST)

==Razor Acts and Teaser==
I've finished writing the Pegasus timeline for Razor. I know it's pretty long, but keep in mind that not only is it a double-episode, the content is extremely compressed, so it was hard to shorten it up. For future reference, I have added an invisible note at the bottom of the Razor summary detailing the Razor Teaser, and a breakdown of where each act begins and ends. Additionally, I am including another copy here.

*Teaser
**We see only Shaw’s hand as she opens and closes Cain’s knife. She rubs her fingers along the blade, careful not to get hurt. She talks about the importance of living with your decisions, and the cycle of life, and how there are no second chances. The word “RAZOR” flashes across the screen.
**We now see a series of flashbacks, periodically edited in with shots of Shaw caressing Cain’s knife. The first to appear is the discovery of the Pegasus by the Fleet ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]). We then see Gina being whipped by Thorne (a new scene), and we hear Baltar’s voice comforting her, telling her that what she needs is justice. Next we see Gina holding the gun to Cain’s head. We hear the gun go off, and then we immediately see her funeral, with Fisk giving the eulogy ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]). Next we see Fisk being garroted and then Adama and Tigh talking about promoting Garner ([[Black Market]]). Next we see the scene where the enemy baseships jump ahead of the Pegasus, and Garner dies saving the ship. We see Apollo promoted to commander ([[The Captain's Hand]]).
**Finally we hear Shaw again, talking about how you are the choices you make in life, followed by the opening titles.

::Don't use things like "we see". If anything write "the viewer sees". But best is a more neutral voice like "Shaw says" or "Shaw's hand". The rest isn't really needed at all. I don't think it's necessary to summarize the flashbacks designed to bring viewers up to speed. Shaw's monologue should be enough. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:29, 26 November 2007 (CST)

*Act 1
**Begins after opening titles.
**Ends after Shaw is promoted to major.
*Act 2
**Begins as Shaw is drilling Colonial Marines on rifle assembly aboard Pegasus.
**Ends as the Pegasus crew is shouting “So Say We All!”
*Act 3
**Begins as the Pegasus senior staff is discussing the communication relay.
**Ends as the first Cylon salvos strike Pegasus.
*Act 4
**Begins as Belzen is being taken to the morgue.
**Ends after the First Cylon War flashback, as Adama and Roslin look over the original Cylon Raider.
*Act 5
**Begins as Roslin, Apollo and Adama discuss the Guardian basestar.
**Ends after the massacre aboard the Scylla.
*Act 6
**Begins as the Scylla boarding party is leaving the ship.
**Ends as the Centurion Model 0005’s are coordinating with each other aboard the Cylon Raider.
*Act 7
**Begins as Red Squad is floating in space.
**Ends after the Guardian basestar explodes.
*Act 8
**Begins as Apollo and Adama are discussing Cain and Shaw posthumously.
**Ends at credits.
--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:52, 26 November 2007 (CST)

:Alright I've taken that part out. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:39, 26 November 2007 (CST)

== Doral in Razor? ==

Is it me, or is the guy in a suit (security?) seen shortly behind Cain at the beginning of the conference in her quarters a [[Number Five]]? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 12:56, 29 November 2007 (CST)
: I did a double take myself when I saw that... but it isn't Doral. It's apparently just a crew member who is dressed as a butler for the dinner occasion. (For Doral's appearance in "Razor", he's in a scene where he notifies Bill Adama that Lee will be doing the flyby during the decommissioning ceremony.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 13:01, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:They look somewhat similar, but you can tell it's not really him. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:05, 29 November 2007 (CST)

== Hair color? ==

Is it just me, or is Cain's hair color different in this appearance than it was in the previous season two episodes? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 19:42, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:Positrons... heisenberg hair color uncertainty principle... yeah. It appears darker offhand. [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=53&pos=3 New hair] vs [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=53&pos=3 Old hair]--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:03, 29 November 2007 (CST)
::Didn't we talk about this already? :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:26, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:::I mentioned it in our Gtalk conversation. LOL -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 20:37, 29 November 2007 (CST)
::::Not just the color, but the style, too. She looks more feminine and less severe. Maybe she decides later that curlers and color treatments are not combat considerations :) --[[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 16:51, 30 November 2007 (CST)

== New Razor article? ==

It's like what I say in the header, though to specify: are we going to have another article for the extended/unrated version of "Razor" like with what we did with "[[Pegasus (Extended Version)|Pegasus]]", or are we just going to drop everything under the same article? I'd like to know before any integration of new material from the extended version goes into here. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:16, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:Isn't it just 15 minutes more material? Given the length of 1.5 hours, that's not so much. The summary is already pretty long, but since it's not that much new stuff, we could include it in this article I think. And then mark it somehow, for example with "(*)". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:20, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::I have the DVD for two weeks now (a week before release) and it's not that much of a difference. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:22, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::No need to have an extended version of the page. We should just note what happens in these extended scenes, note that they are extended, and we'll be fine. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 12:44, 5 December 2007 (CST)
Well, I wasn't advocating a new page. I just wanted to make sure no one was going to create one before we started adding the extra material in - which I'm surprised no one has started yet. I do think there should be something specific about there being two versions, though. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 16:29, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:Could be placed in the overview section. There it can also be explained how the DVD scenes are marked. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:30, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::I we do include the extra scenes into this main article, we should mark them as being on the dvd only. I got my copy last night and saw the changes. They're not a lot "length-wise", but in general story telling, it does add in a lot. It definitely explains more about Cain's psyche and explains her motives to fight instead of run. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 09:09, 6 December 2007 (CST)

== Split Idea ==

We should move the analysis and the production notes to two different pages. They make this one page, way to long to begin with. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:Yeah. Similar to the Miniseries a [[Razor, Analysis]] or maybe [[Razor/Analysis]] article would probably be better, since the summary is very long. Splitting off the official statements is a good idea too. I'd keep notes and maybe dialogue though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:12, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::What if we create a template where users can easily select which articles they wish to view (in addition to the ''Main article'' links you suggest on the page)? That way we can combine this article and whatever we choose to disjoin from it, along with the [[Razor Flashbacks]] and Razor DVD (both [[Razor (Region 1 DVD)|1]] & [[Razor (Region 2 DVD)|2]]) pages all into one nice neat little package. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:53, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:::Basically, the idea wouldn't work... there's no way to dynamically cherry pick and select what you want to read, at least not with the MediaWiki software. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:36, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:::(Update.) OrionFour, I did run with your suggestion however, as you can see [[Razor/Full Article|here]], which integrates the main article with the sub articles for the complete page. However, there's still no way for a user to dynamically pick what they want. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 10:58, 16 December 2007 (CST)
: Yeah, we can split off the notes, analysis, and statements into their own separate sub-article. That'd work. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:36, 11 December 2007 (CST)
: I strongly disagree. Unlike the miniseries, there's no logical breakpoint, and having analysis and synopsis on different pages is irritating and confusing - I'm personally glad we abandoned the practice with the miniseries articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:29, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::Well, the article is a bit too long. I moved the official statements to a subpage, since that can easily be put elsewhere. If we don't want to do that with analysis and notes too (which are very important), we could also move the dialogue. Then the article wouldn't really be short, but manageable I think. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:37, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::: The dialogue does take up a lot of the page, so we can probably move that to a seperate sub-page as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 17:00, 11 December 2007 (CST)

Any more comments on this? I moved official statements and dialogue to subpages. The article is still long, but fine I think. So as far as I am concerned, we don't need additional splits/moves. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:46, 16 December 2007 (CST)
: The article is fine now. I've gone through and removed the split templates from the main page. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 09:58, 16 December 2007 (CST)

== Merge: DVD ==

Shouldn't we move this to the DVD page? Kinda of irrlenevent here since it's not what was offically shown on TV? This is more like a bouns of the DVD, not Razor TV showing itself. A link should still be provided. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:For me it's the same as the extended version of "Pegasus". The long version is the definite one. Besides, the additions are clearly separated, so you can easily see what's only on DVD. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:12, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:Incorrect. The longer version is the "default" canonical one, since it is considered by the people behind the show to be the definitive version. Same thing goes for the extended version of "Pegasus" as Serenity said. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)

== Gemenese ==

Did I hear correctly that someone mentioned the Gemenese collaborated during the First Cylon War? Maybe when Adama was on the ice planet. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 16:24, 18 December 2007 (CST)
: Never heard that... You may be thinking of the ''[[Diana]]'', a ship from Gemenon that the the Cylons captured for their [[hybrid]] experiments. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:44, 18 December 2007 (CST)
:Huh? (pardon the pun). They were ''abducted''; as Joe said. What about those medical experiments looked even the least bit voluntary? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:45, 18 December 2007 (CST)
::My PC speakers aren't the best. But I thought one of the captives mentioned it very quickly. I must be wrong. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 11:44, 20 December 2007 (CST)

== Colonial Officers - compromising one's credo ==

The Colonial military must have a different creed for their officer corps. I am a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAFR, and one of the first things that I learned was that the military was for the protection of the nation - and by extention, the citizens. And as the officer corps is responsible to ensure that this creed is upheld, seeing officers in "Razor" comply with an illegal order to kill people on the SCYILLA because these people wanted protection, and not be plundered in an act of piracy, is abhorrent. Lt. Shaw was understandably not happy about complying with the order, but if she had any integrity, she would not only have declined the promotion to Captain from Admiral Cain, she would have also resigned her commission and told Cain that she was nothing more than a corsair. [[Expatkiwi|Expatkiwi]] 12:28, 29 December 2007 (PST)
:If the ''Scylla'' had happened before the [[Fall of the Colonies]], maybe Shaw would have told Cain to stick her orders up her ass. However, there was nowhere to run from a crazy woman commanding (as far as she knew) the only remaining military ship left in the universe. The danger of Cain having her killed for such insurrection was very real, considering the order to shoot people on the ''Scylla'' and her murder of [[Jurgen Belzen]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:36, 29 December 2007 (CST)
::The thing is, Cain can't singlehandedly kill everyone who disobeys an order. If enough people had refused to go with her course of action, they could have disposed of her. Her system only worked because enough people voluntarily went along with it. Probably not everyone, but enough to intimidate the rest. Though, Shaw refusing that promotion when she was alone with Cain probably wouldn't have gone over well. A coordinated mutiny might have worked however. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:52, 29 December 2007 (CST)
:::Good luck coordinating it when you've already killed someone on Cain's say-so and accepted the promotion that followed it ;) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:00, 29 December 2007 (CST)
::::From a storytelling and character development perspective, the episode follows the molding of Kendra Shaw's character. There are powerful forces at play here: the difference in rank and authority between an admiral and an admiral's aide, the sheer force of Cain's personality, and the direness and desperation of the situation. This is a conflict between what is taught in the classroom and what is encountered in the field, where the commander sets the tone, with plenty of real-life examples.--[[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 23:48, 17 January 2008 (CST)

== Experimented upon Humans in First Cylon War flashback ==
After watching the DVD version of Razor, I was convinced that the humans being tortured in the flashback were somewhat familiar. The fact that it looked like they were being intentionally obscured by makeup, camera angles and doors seemed like an invitation to look further.

I believe that after Adama puts his hand into the prototype vat:
* The first person you see behind the bars is a Leoben (or at least the human template).
* The person on the table being carved up with scalpels is Galen Tyrol.
* The disfigured lady behind the bars is a Number 8.
Which begs the question who is the terrified man and the child? Before I realised it was supposed to be a child, I presumed it was a Number 6.
I was expecting to find reference to this somewhere on the web, but drew a blank; so I'm prepared to be wrong - but I'm almost 100% certain of the gentleman on the table being Galen.
--[[User:Zaz|Zaz]] 16:55, 1 January 2008 (CST)

: Unfortunately, much of this is speculation and there's nothing to really support either interpretation, so you won't find much on it here. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:56, 1 January 2008 (CST)
:: Fair enough, but I do invite people to take a look. --[[User:Zaz|Zaz]] 17:02, 1 January 2008 (CST)
::: Oh, it's definitely worth looking into. It's just impossible to support any definitive interpretation on those scenes. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 17:07, 1 January 2008 (CST)
::::An interesting idea. Someone else also pitched the idea somewhere around here that Tigh was the terrified man, that Adama rescued him and that that's how they became friends (this was when the "Razor" webisodes were released). However, Adama doesn't rescue anyone, and it was pointed out that Adama and Tigh first met after the war aboard a freighter ([[Scattered]]). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 17:13, 1 January 2008 (CST)
:::::Interesting speculation. Personally I always thought the Terrified Man at the very least sounded like a Leoben. You might try posting something on the [http://www.battlestarforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3 Battlestar Forum] and see what people think. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 17:41, 1 January 2008 (CST)

== relatively poor special effects in Razor ==

Firstly, I'll refer to the following:
*A curious technical gaffe appears to occur as the smoke from the various fires in the shipyard travel upward. Unless the flames (which would appear as a globular "blossom" shape without gravity) jet upward, the smoke, with the lack of convection (heat rising upward as lighter gases against gravity), would expand in all directions opposite the flames or venting, not "up" relative to the battlestar or flames.
**While this is true, it is possible that the ship yard is drifting, having lost attitude control due to damage which would leave a short trail.

Would a drifting object in space really leave a trail of smoke if the smoke is not propelled from the object with any counter-force (as that of rocket engine)?
I'd have thought without the friction of an atmosphere, the smoke would continue with the same momentum as that of the object it originated from. Is anyone here a physicist?

I believe the special effects in ''Razor'' are simply of lower quality that that of the other RDM content. Other examples are:
* The explosion looks "cheap" when a Raider is destroyed during the Guardian's final attack on Pegasus (this scene is also in the teaser prologue).
* When Husker chases the two Raiders into the clouds, the ships seem to disappear prematurely.
[[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 22:51, 2 February 2008 (CST)

About that shipyard thing, because the fires would be above the shipyard's upper deck, is it possible that there could be a little gravity extending past the hull of the station? OR alternatively, could they have purposely put gravity on the shipyard for some reason? --[[User:Isidis|Isidis]] 08:42, 3 February 2008 (CST)

Litmus

2008-01-24T22:02:38Z

Isidis:

{{Episode Data
| image =Litmus3.jpg
| title=Litmus
| series=
| season=1
| episode=6
| guests=
| writer=[[Jeff Vlaming]]
| story=
| director=[[Rod Hardy]]
| production=106
| rating= [[List of Nielsen ratings (RDM)|2.5]]
| US airdate=2005-02-11
| UK airdate=2004-11-22
| dvd= {{Season 1 NTSC DVD release date}} '''US''' {{Season 1 PAL DVD release date}} '''UK'''
| population=
| prev=[[You Can't Go Home Again]]
| next=[[Six Degrees of Separation]]
| itunes=http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D102232159%2526id%253D102796450%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30
| unbox=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2FB000UU6658&tag=battlestarwik-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325
}}

== Overview ==
:''When [[Aaron Doral]] turns up on ''[[Galactica]]'' and detonates a device made from the ship's own munitions, [[William Adama|Adama]] orders a full investigation - and [[Galen Tyrol]]'s relationship with [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] becomes the focus of the investigation.''

== Summary ==

* A group of civilians board ''[[Galactica]]''. As they make their way through the ship, one of them slips away to make his way through the ship on his own.
* Elsewhere, [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] secretly meets with [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] after their relationship had been forbidden by [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] ([[You Can’t Go Home Again]]) – they meet in the inspection space above the refurbished water tanks.
* The visitor to ''Galactica'' is seen and recognised by Tigh, who covertly calls security. At the same time, he is seen and challenged by Commander [[William Adama|Adama]].
* Turning to face them, the visitor turns to reveal himself as a copy of [[Aaron Doral]] – suspected Cylon ([[Miniseries]]) – who has a bomb strapped to his chest, which he detonates – almost killing Adama and Tigh.
* With three people killed in the blast, Adama orders an investigation into how Doral got aboard and accessed ''Galactica’s'' munitions store, and places his [[Master-at-Arms]], Sergeant [[Hadrian]], in charge of what becomes a public inquiry.
* Interviewing [[hangar deck]] personnel, including [[Cally]] and [[Socinus]], Sergeant [[Hadrian]] is given three different locations for Tyrol’s whereabouts at the time Doral came aboard the ship. The time coincides with Tyrol's meeting with Boomer, and his people are covering for him.
* At the same time, [[Laura Roslin]] holds a press conference, revealing the truth about [[Humanoid Cylon]]s and releasing pictures of Doral and [[Leoben Conoy]]. The news is greeted with a stunned reaction throughout [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].
* As a result of her investigations, Hadrian brings both Boomer and Tyrol before the board of inquiry for questioning.
* Boomer is questioned first – specifically about her relationship with Tyrol, which she claims has stopped on the orders of the [[Saul Tigh|XO]].
* Hadrian then focuses on Tyrol and his whereabouts at the time of the bombing, and Boomer claims she has no idea.
* Putting Tyrol on the stand, Hadrian questions him about a hatchway that was left open – a hatchway he should have ensured was closed, and which leads directly to the small arms locker from which the explosives had been stolen, and to which he had the access code.
* In response, Tyrol points out that several people have the access code to the locker – including Hadrian herself, who is also responsible for internal security aboard the ship.
* Hadrian challenges Tyrol as to whether Boomer may have left the hatch open. Remembering their meeting, in which she stated she had used the hatchway to avoid being seen on her way to him, Tyrol lies and states he has no idea.
* He is then challenged to explain why his claim to have been in his bunk at the time of the bombing is disputed by three of his own crew, who put him in different places, doing different things at the time Doral was aboard.
* When Hadrian accuses him of being a Cylon collaborator, Tyrol refuses to answer, citing his right to not self-incriminate himself under the [[Articles_of_Colonization|23rd Article of Colonization]].
* Specialist Socinus is next on the stand, and when he realizes his original statement has landed Tyrol in trouble, he changes his story: he actually left his post and went to the galley for food, using the companionway and hatch in question to get there.
* When challenged about the hatch, he admits he was the one who left it open, thus accidentally providing the Cylon with the means to get to the explosives.
* Hadrian still tries to involve Tyrol, demanding to know if he ordered Socinus to leave the hatch open. Socinus won’t be moved: he left the hatch open.
* In sickbay, [[Gaius Baltar]] visits [[Kara Thrace]], hoping to rekindle the attraction of their first card game ("[[Water]]"). She, however, is not in the mood. To get rid of him, she asks him about the bombing and whether he felt the Cylon was after his [[Cylon detector|super secret project]], which is located close to where the bomb went off.
* This scares Baltar to the point where he leaves Thrace alone, demanding to know from [[Number Six|Six]] as to why the Cylons are trying to kill him when he’s following her orders.
* Six points out the Cylon were probably after the detector – and that anyway, the Cylons don’t know about her and Baltar.
* With Socinus apparently the guilty party, Adama discusses the outcome of the inquiry with Roslin – when he is called before the board himself, where Hadrian comes close to building a picture of conspiracy rising all the way to Adama.
* Realizing things are out of hand, Adama calls a halt to things, confining Hadrian to her quarters and disbanding the board of inquiry.
* Roslin holds a second conference, issuing Socinus’ name and stating he has been removed from duty and placed in the brig for dereliction of duty.
* Hearing this, Tyrol goes to Adama to try and secure Socinus’ release. Instead, he is confronted by the truth: as a result of his unauthorized tryst with Boomer, he has created a poor example of leadership and can’t actually say where Socinus was or what he was doing. Socinus will remain in the brig.
* As a result, Tyrol meets with Boomer and ends their relationship. He then asks her if she left the suspect hatchway open the last time they met. She refuses to answer.

===On Caprica===
* [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] sets out to find his missing [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]].
* As a result of his decision, [[Number Six|Six]] gives Valerii a vicious beating to feign a fight with Cylons once he "finds" her.
* Helo later discovers a lone [[Cylon Centurion]] dragging a bound and apparently unconscious Valerii, whom he rescues.

== Notes ==

*[[w:Litmus test (chemistry)|Litmus]] is a chemical substance used to determine whether a solution is acidic or basic. In politics a [[w:Litmus test (politics)|litmus test]] is a question posed to a candidate in order determine whether or not he or she will be nominated for a certain office, thus deciding a political career.
*Some 24 hours have passed since the events of "[[You Can’t Go Home Again]]".
*There was at least one additional Doral in the Fleet.
*Underground activities are beginning to take place on ''Galactica'' – as shown by the creation of the still.
*Baltar’s Six claims not to be in contact with other Cylons in the Fleet, but it is far from clear as to whether she is speaking the truth.
*Adama’s [[Joseph Adama|father]] was a civil liberties lawyer on Caprica.
*Adama has a hobby: constructing large models of sailing vessels.
*Baltar is now actively working on his [[Cylon detector]].
*Civilians routinely pass through ''Galactica''.
*Cultural oddity: when Adama sets down his glasses, a volume of the ''Reader's Digest Condensed Books'' series is clearly identifiable, including the ''Reader's Digest'' logo.
*Number Six intimidates Baltar with the line, "Don't make me angry, Gaius. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry." This is a possible play on the classic Bill Bixby line from the pilot episode of the ''Incredible Hulk''. The line is partially repeated in flashback in "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]" and again in "[[Collaborators]]" by Adama.
*The building seen prominently in the background of the first shots of the [[Unnamed cities of Caprica|Caprican city]] can be clearly identified as a [[w:Scotiabank|ScotiaBank]] building in downtown Vancouver.

== Analysis ==
*According to [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion]], "Litmus" is a "cost saving episode", a pattern which happens several times on genre shows: the season premiere ([[33]]) is intentionally given a larger share of the special effects budget to try to attract new fans, but to balance this out an episode later in the season must involve little or no new special effects or new sets. Often these episodes are "filler", but "Litmus" strongly contributes to the ongoing storylines in the series and seems to have avoided these potential problems.
*This episode features the minor characters on the deck crew to a large degree, giving them scenes with actual substance. Their reactions show how the common people in the fleet are affected by the decisions of people at the "top", Roslin and Adama. Rather than being "[[w:Redshirt (character)|redshirts]]" who do not appear again, these characters will continue to reappear throughout the season, demonstrating how the series features a large ensemble cast, and given time even many tertiary characters become fully fleshed out.

== Questions ==
*Was Baltar's lab really Doral's intended target?
*Why did Hadrian fixate on the Tyrol / Boomer relationship? This line of questioning was distinct from her attempts to expose Tyrol as a "Cylon conspirator." ([[Crossroads, Part II|Possible Answer]])
*Will the "outing" of Doral and Conoy really make Cylon activities within the Fleet that much more difficult? What of Six? Will it mean we'll see other models swing into action? ([[Flesh and Bone|Answer]])
*Why is the concept of love so important to the Cylons? ([[The Farm|Answer]])

== Official Statements ==

* ''"Major question: it looks like discipline hasn't really improved on the ship in the first few episodes. In some ways, it's getting worse. Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] didn't help matters at all in "Litmus" when he essentially declared himself to be above the law."''

:Security and discipline are definitely problems on ''[[Galactica]]'' and they're not going away. The ship was far from the best of the best at the time of its retirement and the people on board weren't either. The discipline was lax and many procedures had been allowed to fall by the wayside. Now, this ship and its crew are forced to operate far above what they considered to be the norm and it's not an easy transition for any of them.

:This was a deliberate creative choice. It's one thing for the finest ship, with the finest crew to deal with the end of the world and a long flight from a relentless enemy, it's quite another when you were just a bunch of people trying to get by. I find it a more challenging and interesting environment to tell stories in and I find these people more heroic in their actions just by the nature of the obstacles they have to overcome in their day to day existence. {{from_RDM_blog}}

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Adama, to Sergeant Hadrian and her Board of Inquiry:''
:'''Adama''': You’ve lost your way, Sergeant. You’ve lost sight of the purpose of the law: to protect its citizens, not persecute them. Whatever we are, whatever’s left of us – we’re better than that. Now these proceedings are closed. You’ll be transported back to your ships and we appreciate your help. 
:'''Board Chair''': This is an independent board. You have no power to close our inquiries. 
:'''Adama''': This is a witch-hunt. I will not have it aboard my ship.

*''Adama to Tyrol, after Socinus has been incarcerated:''
:'''Adama''': What I can’t do is I can’t let someone who wears this uniform get up on the witness stand and lie under oath. And that’s what your man did. He either lied the first time or he lied the second time. And it doesn’t matter. He’s guilty, and he’ll pay the price. You? You’ll pay a different price. You’ll have to walk out on that hangar every day knowing that one of your men is in the brig because you couldn’t keep your fly zipped. You are the most experienced non-commissioned officer we have left. You keep my planes flying. I need my planes to fly.

== Guest stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Paul Campbell]] as [[Billy Keikeya]]
*[[Samuel Witwer]] as [[Crashdown]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Jill Teed]] as Sergeant [[Hadrian]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]]
*[[Alonso Oyarzun]] as Specialist [[Socinus]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally Tyrol|Cally Henderson]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*[[Christina Schild]] as [[Playa Palacios|Playa Kohn]]
*[[Raahul Singh]] as [[Kimmit]]
*[[Shaw Madson]] as Marine Corporal
*[[Nimet Kanji]] as [[Candace Myson]]
*[[Biski Gugushe]] as [[Sekou Hamilton]]
*[[Morris Chapdelaine]] as Reporter #2

{{episode list (RDM season 1)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Jeff Vlaming]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Rod Hardy]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Das Tribunal]]
[[es:Bajo la Mira]]
[[fr:L'Attentat]]
[[zh:石蕊]]

Talk:DRADIS/Archive 1

2008-01-05T00:05:08Z

Isidis: New section: DRADIS Layouts

==Early discussion==
I've always thought it was similar to the US Navy's [http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/aegis.htm Aegis Mk VII] system. [[User:Panther|Panther]] 20:54, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

:There's a definite RDM blog answer that's about a sentence long and says it's a different word for radar.

:Something else is very similar to Aegis, though... I think it's in a battlestar article, probably a point-defense item for obvious reasons. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 01:06, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

It is stated that DRADIS stands for 'Direction RAnge and DIStance'.

Should it not be 'Direction RAnge Detection and Identification System' This still has the acronym DRADIS?

:I'd be happy to see a source for this term; I'd rather not make it up if RDM has the acronym down. He's normally not into this inane level of techno-fanboy detail, so we'll have to see. Better to keep this one to what we know. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 23 Aug 2005 (EDT)0

::Agreed, FWIW. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:43, 23 Aug 2005 (EDT):

:: We need a definite and official source for what this term means. Personally, I don't believe that it is well defined, if at all. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:30, 23 Aug 2005 (EDT)

It adds nothing to the debate :), but when i heard the anacronym '''DRADIS''', i instantly though "oh cool, thats '''D'''irection, '''R'''ange '''A'''n'''D''' '''I'''dentification '''S'''ystem ...good to see someone is thinking hard about all the little stuff"

To me it makes sense for it to mean this...remember the first few eps of ST didnt have Starfleet, but the United Earth Space Probe Agency or some such....ID it is! Hooray! :) And i'd write it as Dradis..like Radar..the caps dissapear after a while :) --[[User:Simmons|Simmons]] 07:36, 1 February 2006 (EST)Simmons

"Range" and "Distance" are indeed redundant in their most common sense, but in space, a system like this would be pretty much pointless if it didn't provide directional information in ''two'' axes, as well as the distance. Even without a useful expansion of the acronym, it should be abundantly clear that these would be the three values present in the reading for a single DRADIS contact. -- [[User:Cmr|Cmr]]

:Indeed, Gaeta has given three-value coordinates when it's been relevant — in Act of Contrition and Resistance.

:Just an interesting note - Bearing and Carom are clearly not measured in degrees. We've seen bearings up to 881 (Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down) and caroms up 552 (Flight of the Phoenix). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:38, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:: Another interesting note - The Army in its land navigation uses a method of measurement called the mil [[http://www.survivaliq.com/navigation/direction_par1.htm]] which breaks a circle up into 6400 parts rather than 360. That may explain the higher numbers quoted. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 15:01, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:"Range" and "distance" are still synonyms in 3 dimensions. Yes, there are 3 numbers for spherical coordinates, but '''2''' of them are direction; the other one is range (and distance, since they're the same thing). --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:29, 5 January 2006 (EST)

::I understood your point the first time, and wasn't trying to contradict it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:39, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:::If you're addressing me, I'm somewhat confused. I don't recall saying that before, and I was responding to Cmr. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 00:07, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:: my point is just that this article can describe what DRADIS measures, and how, without expanding the acronym. is the early teleplay manuscript the only source for Direction, RAnge, and DIStance? if so, it seems like this is, at best, something less than canonical. [[User:Cmr|Cmr]] 17:35, 15 January 2006 (EST)

::Another (possibly unhelpful) speculation. DRADIS might be expanded usefully to 'Direction RAdius and DIStance.' This would provide the bearing to target (in three-space), the distance to target, and the radius (radians?) of the target at that distance - either the equivalent of the radar cross-section or signal strength, or perhaps some other actual size measurement which could be used to determine the target's identity? --[[User:sierran|sierran]] 12:35, 21 February 2006 (EST)

:::I think that sierran is closest: I believe it's either (Direction, RAdial, DIStance) or (Direction, RAdian, DIStance). I'm not sure of the origin of the original interpretation, but if it's not from quotable dialog, it's probably incorrect. Spherical coordinate systems require three values, but different names are used in various contexts: (radial, azimuth, polar), (radial, azimuth, zenith), (range, azimuth, elevation). In the first two sets, "radial" is the distance from the point of origin, but a radial pattern is a one that appears to originate at a point, like spokes in a wheel. A scriptwriter could easily substitute RAdial into an acronym, without realizing it is technically incorrect. Substitute DIrection for azimuth and DIStance for range, and it yields what I think is the intended derivation. Alternatively, RAdian is a unit of plane angle. Although both azimuth and elevation can be expressed in radians, perhaps a scriptwriter chose it for elevation because it created an acronym that sounded cool. --[[User:ptb|ptb]] 11:49, 12 March 2006 (CST)

:I have a WAY WAY '''WAY''' better definition for the DRADIS acronym. Get this. Get this, it's awesome. You ready? Check this out: Direction RAnge DISplacement. "Displacement" is commonly used in Naval terms to describe the amount of water mass "displaced" by a ship. Displacement could easilly be co-opted for this sort of "Space Navy" mentality to be used to define the size of ships on DRADIS. Notice that DRADIS '''does''' make a distinction between the small vessels and the capital ships. Obviously it's more than a direction/distance calculation. So what do you think? Direction RAnge DISplacement? Eh? Eh? I think it's high quality. --[[User:Trajan|Trajan]] 21:47, 26 October 2006 (CST)

:Range and Distance could refer to different measures in curved space-time or at relativistic speeds. So perhaps it locates targets in three out of four space-time dimensions, but not the three space dimensions at the same time. The display is clearly two-dimensional, with a sweeping arc to show the locus it is scanning at a given moment. It may not be able to differentiate positions within this arc. Perhaps it requires more than one DRADIS dish to accurately locate a target in three dimensions? This is equivalent to Earth radar, which can build a picture in two dimensions by scanning in one dimension. There's no reason to assume that the Colonials are not working around their own technical limitations. -- [[User:Mauve|Mauve]] 05:26, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::It's better to keep this simple, folks. An episode already shows the abbreviations that confirm the acronym's source; anything else is [[BW:FANW|fan-generated content and over-speculation]]. Don't get me wrong; both thoughts have technical merit that makes some sense. However, neither are backed up by aired content and, in fact, seem to contradict what little we know. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:21, 16 November 2006 (CST)

:I read somewhere that it was Direction and RAdial Distance. That makes far more sense than what is in the article right now. The graphic that we see in the series shows a revolving arc, which would indicate that Radial Distance is more likely, not Direction, RAnge, DIStance. By the way, the "transcript" that is cited in the footnote is merely a fan-compiled transcript. It is not an official transcript so it should not be used as the source for the acronym's meaning. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 08:34, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Reply to Spencerian: If you have a source for the un-abbreviated form given in the article, maybe that source should be in footnote #1 instead of that nonsense about "redundant with each other" (which phrase is redundant itself, of course). --[[User:username|username]] just now...

Consider real spherical geometry for just a moment and a possibility that requires far less stretching becomes apparent. If using a radial coordinate system, you need exactly three values to define a point in space relative to your position: '''d'''eclination, '''r'''ight '''a'''scension, and '''dis'''tance. This has the following advantages: (1) no terms are invented or forced to represent values not traditional to their definition, (2) it is a simple and effective system that is used in reality, and (3) is consistent with the philosophy of "natural science fiction" that the show follows. Quod erat demonstrandum... I'm rather surprised no one else has posited this.

Furthermore, please stop this silly "carom" and "karam" misspelling. The word is '''charagm''' from ''charagma,'' the Greek word for "mark," which is used in speech where a decimal would be written. You will find this consistent with dialogue. [[User:Merlin|Merlin]] 10:06, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

: Interesting, but we would need official confirmation before running with this in the article—it does make sense, however. Also, as for [[carom]], the spelling comes from the DVD subtitles for Season 1, unless you have another source of information we haven't happened upon yet. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:43, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
:: From experience, we know never to trust the subs ("54" vs. "Viper", "12:09" vs. "Cloud Nine", etc.), but we could [[BW:OC|ask Brad]] how it's spelled. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:08, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
::: Those instances are different than the others. Consistently, the subs have provided the spelling "carom". Of course, [[BW:OC|asking Brad would also be a wonderful idea]]. I say go for it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:15, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
:::: I [[BW:OC#Spelling_of_carom|asked him]], so now we wait. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 02:33, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

:Consider [[CBDR]] (Constant Bearing, Decreasing Range) meaning detection of something not moving in the field of view (horiz/vert) but getting closer (aka collision course). In this context, Range is the distance away from the DRADIS scanner. So Distance and Direction must be something else. Take into consideration the two-dimensional display on the DRADIS readout, and consider whether the height in the field of view matters - or perhaps objects on all heights are shown and this requires the user to read the numbers (or icon size) to judge height. As for Direction/Range/Distance, Direction would be circular direction (eg 90-degrees, 3 o' clock or "right"), Range would be distance away from the ship, and Distance could be vertical height from the horizontal plane. Notice how all the ships are horizontal, so there is always a common up and down? Something on the same level as you would record a distance of zero, below you would be negative, above positive etc. [[User:Xenon|Xenon]] 18:50, 28 April 2007 (CDT)

Just a comment - Astronomy uses a coordinate system that uses Declination and Right Ascension to pinpoint astral bodies. If you include distance, you now have a system that you can use to determine another objects position in space *relative to you* (if I call my "up" north, then I can place everything by how many degrees "north" (or by using negative numbers how far "south") it is, how many degrees "right" (or "left") it is, and how far away from me it is)

==Radar==
Spencerian, why did you revert Wingsandsword's note about the "radar" reference in "The Hand of God"? The dialogue in question goes like this:

:'''Thrace:''' The decoy ships will jump into the enemy star system at extreme radar range from the Cylon asteroid. Galactica will jump here, close enough to launch its Vipers at the base.
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:07, 10 January 2006 (EST)

: There has been some healthy discussion of this point on my talk page, and for the record it is at 11:53 into the episode, and her exact line is what Peter Farago said it was. It's also on the closed captioning. It's likely to be a goof, but it could be interpreted that "radar" is a slang or mostly-disused term for the more technically accurate Dradis. --[[User:Wingsandsword|Wingsandsword]] 14:37, 10 January 2006 (EST)
::Her "exact line" is still subject to debate: DVD subtitles aren't always reliable, and when I saw it again on my DVD it ''sounded'' like she said "Raider", not radar. "Radar" probably isn't a slang term because I think they're more careful about these things and that it is not, indeed a goof. Others please rewatch this scene. I'm not exact on how ''all'' DVD subtitles are made, but on many I've had in the past they were really just made by people that watched the episode writing down dialog, rather than on a script of some form. They aren't really reliable. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:06, 10 January 2006 (EST)

:::It doesn't make sense for her to say "Raider range". Raiders have FTL and therefore have a massively larger range than Vipers. -- [[User:Mauve|Mauve]] 05:26, 16 November 2006 (CST)

: What if RADAR is one component of DRADIS? Suppose that DRADIS comprises a host of detection systems (RADAR, IR, UV, MAD, etc.) all linked into one system and accessed from one console?--Axeman

::As I have stated numerous times, in context, she could have been saying "Raider range". There's a burden of proof there, a shaodw of a doubt if you will, and she kind of slurrs it; doesn't sound quite like she's saying "Radar". I think our current thing is fine: making a note that we think she said Radar, but that she could have said "Raider". This is, of course, distinct from the horrible "Black Market" in which amongst other failures they call fumarellos "cigars". --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:19, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::That wasn't an error. Cigars have never been called Fumarellos in RDM. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:03, 29 January 2006 (EST)
::::There seems to be a lot of contention over this point. Can someone find a specific reference where they were or weren't called cigars or fumarellos? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 15:09, 29 January 2006 (EST)
:::::Actually I was just using that as an example; Peter and I are actually leaning towards the position that they were ALWAYS called "Cigars" but "tobacco" is "fumarello leaf" here.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:32, 29 January 2006 (EST)

==Name?==

Should the name of this article be all caps, or is there a naming convention in place that restrits all caps in an article title? [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 16:41, 20 January 2006 (EST)
:Possible, but generally it looks a bit garrish and we don't know the acronym fully. Besides, do you ''always'' write out radio as "RADIO"? It's a portmaneau, not a full acronym. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:49, 20 January 2006 (EST)
:: I agree, but throughout the article and other articles, DRADIS is capitalized. I was only suggesting it in order to make it more uniform. I'll defer to the majority though. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 16:52, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:::The capitalization is because DRADIS is an acronym, like RADAR or LASER or NASA. Usage for these terms have dropped the capitalization down to where the acronym becomes a word except for NASA. DRADIS isn't there yet in my mind. On the other hand, if I see it without capitalization, I don't change it unless it looks aesthetically wrong. Acronyms should be capitalized unless there is a wiki convention that says otherwise. For wiki's sake, keeping it not capitalized (particularly as the article name) prevents weirdness. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:34, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:::: To bring this subject back up, the first thing I thought of when seeing this article was that it wasnt in capitals. You are right in that people casually dont say RADAR in capitals when writing because it one of the exceptions to the rule. The word "Radar" is now officially in the English language as a standard word, theorfor losing the capitalisation in the process. Laser is also another example of an acronym adopted as an official word. Radio as far as i know was never an acronym? It seems to me that an acronym only loses its capitalisation when it becomes an official word (radar, laser, scuba etc) and when its not all letters are in capitals (ICBM, LCD, AIDS etc) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 06:01, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

==Rank==

In the last frame before the opening credits in "Pegasus" the Dradis icon for the ''Pegasus'' is shown with two stars next to it. I assume these denote the rank of the flag officer (Admiral Cain) aboard. Is this worth including? [[User:Jagaroth|Jagaroth]] 05:08, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

:Maybe. Is there a DRADIS shot of what ''Galactica'' looked like on ''Pegasus'' DRADIS? If there isn't any special marking for Adama (of Commander rank then), we'll know that DRADIS can be configured to indicate battlestars with flag officers, as Cain was. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:26, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

::I think the second picture on the page is the view from ''Pegasus'' to ''Galactica'' because ''Galactica'' is in mid-field on the display rather than being the source (at the bottom). I'll check later. To confirm we'd need a shot of an external DRADIS after Adama gets promoted. [[User:Jagaroth|Jagaroth]] 03:57, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
:::I attached the pics together, the other one is Galactica from Pegasus and there is no stars next to the Big-G. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 04:43, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
::DRADIS symbology for various Colonial Fleet units are different.civilian ship symbols show min 5 type of civilian ship(except adriatic symbol) military ship symbols except battlestars. Circle (shield) in circle area points (weapons)outside of circle trace(engines or wings)
Adriatick only symbol two points in circle(weapon)--[[User:mustah|mustah]]

==Rename==
Why on earth hasn't this been renamed to [[DRADIS]] so that the silly hatnote at the top can be removed? [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]] 17:52, 26 September 2007 (CDT)
:If memory serves, the page name was used before newer versions of MediaWiki allowed full caps of article names. A redirect page of DRADIS does bring the user to the article. It's something to check with Shane and Joe B, who know more of the technicals of MediaWiki than I. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:18, 26 September 2007 (CDT)
:That's pretty much the reason... :-) Of course, it can be changed. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 23:25, 26 September 2007 (CDT)
::Done. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:40, 26 September 2007 (CDT)
::Ah so! Boy, I bet Wikipedia was a real mess back then, what with thousands of acronym articles... Heh. — [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]] [[[User talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]] [[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|cont]]] ‹(-¿-)› 05:09, 27 September 2007 (CDT)
:::It pays to be a wiki with a specific topic focus. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:00, 27 September 2007 (CDT)

== Synonyms D, Ra and Dis ==

These synonyms might be astronomical ones for
'D'eclination
'R'ight 'A'scension
'DIS'tance

(see [[w:Declination|Wikpedia: Declination]]) --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 17:00, 2 January 2008 (CST)

:Here we go again ... :) This might warrant a merge and rename with the above "Early discussion" section--[[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 17:21, 2 January 2008 (CST)
:Well, we're going by what's said in the Miniseries script, so... that's what we're going with, unless we get clarification/corrections/word from official sources. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 17:44, 2 January 2008 (CST)

== DRADIS Layouts ==

Am I right in thinking that there is more than one layout for a DRADIS screen. We mostly see one with the numerous arcs spanning outward, and another with a more 3D view. I see them change back and forth throughout the series. What could the different purposes of these layouts be? --[[User:Isidis|Isidis]] 18:05, 4 January 2008 (CST)

Talk:Weapons in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2008-01-03T20:55:06Z

Isidis: New section: Railguns

== Future of [[KEW]] article ==

With this new page, I wonder what should happen with the [[KEW]] article. I copied the "autocannon" section there and also wanted to copy the "point defense" section. But then the article would be useless and could be deleted (KEW could be redirect here).

Or should we only summarize those two sections and include a "See main article link" to there? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:36, 10 January 2007 (CST)

:My first reaction is to make KEW redirect here. Is there any information there that isn't shown here or more specific articles? "KEW" is just too broad. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:00, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::As said, if I copy the "point defense" part as well, there is nothing there anymore. It also has a bit about the main guns, but with [[Battery]] that's redundant. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:05, 10 January 2007 (CST)

:::All the more reason to cease KEW. I feel centralization of all ship weapons but sidearms would be preferable. Your call. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:44, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::::Alright, I'll do that. What should I do with the talk page? Move it here? I can't use the normal move function since this page already exists, but I could copy-paste it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:06, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Normally we just let it go in cases like this unless there are very significant discussions that are critical to the article's existence. In this case, a summary that tells the result of the merge and why it occurred (which in turn is a summary of the consensus from the old talk pages) should be fine. No need to horde that stuff. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:29, 10 January 2007 (CST)

== Explosives and rocket launchers ==

Plastic explosives like [[G-4]] have been used on numerous occassions in different forms, ranging from larger blocks to small chunks used to open doors. And in "Exodus, Part I" we see the Marines taking out Centurions with an RPG (rocket propelled grenade). 
Do these fall under "small arms"? According to [[w:Small_arms|Wikipedia]] RPGs can fall under that term, but it doesn't seem like explosives do. Should we stick to that and create a seperate "explosives" section or add it as sub-section of "small arms". The latter is probably better, given the overall structure of the article (and after all they did keep it in the small arms locker). 
But the obvious solution would be calling it "Small arms and explosives". Duh :)

I'll wait with adding the normal rifles and pistols here though, until the [[Talk:small arms|controvery]] about the [[small arms]] article is solved. Alternatively, if it turns out that a seperate small arms article specifically for an in-universe POV is created, the RPG could be added to that. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:28, 11 January 2007 (CST)
::If I remember correctly, it's not an RPG in Exodus, but a light anti-tank missile. I need to get a pic of it before I can be sure though. AT missiles are considered crew-served weapons if they are larger than, say, an [[w:M72 LAW|M72 LAW]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:51, 11 January 2007 (CST)
:::Maybe it falls more into the larger "shoulder launched weapons"/"anti tank guided missile" category, but RPGs ''are'' anti-tank weapons, although they are used against more lightly armored vehicles instead of MBTs these days. Originally the acronym comes from Russian and stands for "handheld anti-tank grenade-launcher". Picture is [[:Image:Colonial_RPG.jpg|here]] btw.
:::All in all, while it technically probably doesn't belong into "small arms", I guess it's better to stick it there for simpilicity and maybe make a note about that, instead of creating an own header for a weapon that has only been seen once so far. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:04, 11 January 2007 (CST)
::::Soviet RPGs are an unusual case because they are considered personel weapons in the old Soviet army, soldiers would carry ones as their weapon instead of a rifle. Some western RPGs are crew-served though. Just by memory, the rocket in Exodus looked like a SMAW, but I need a picture to identify it (hint to anyone with it from iTunes). --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:07, 11 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Maybe a "support weapon" section would work, this could also include any future machine guns and such we see. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:08, 11 January 2007 (CST)

== Cylon Raider's weapons ==
I know that everyone seems intent on the theory that the raider has two sets of KEW's of differing caliber but is not possible that one set is just merely a targeting asset, a sensor of some sort? I've never seen the Raider firing anything other than 'slug' rounds and only two lines of them at that. --[[User:Imperator|Imperator]] 11:40 19 August 2007 GMT
:Yeah could be. To be honest that part of the article was copied from some other article that took the speculation just a bit too far. It's more likely that there is simply a mismatch between the ammunition and the Raider model, so that part might be over analyzing things. That the ammo is a mix of explosives, slugs and tracers was confirmed by Bradley Thompson. Size mismatches aside, they could be fired from the same barrel. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:49, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

==Sidearm caliber==
It appears Valerii was not using a standard sidearm. (I specifically avoided naming the victim to prevent incidental/unnecessary spoillage of the S1 cliffhanger.) Here's [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=35&pos=438 the gun], [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=35&pos=437 the gun firing], and [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=66&pos=34 a promo shot] ([http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=66&pos=36 or two]) that seem to back that as well. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:07, 20 November 2007 (CST)
:Yeah, it seems to be the same gun she tries to commit suicide with. Best thing is if we don't narrow it down specifically, since it's actually two different calibers (at least from a behind the scenes perspective). The Five-seveN obviously uses the 5.7*28mm cartridge (a bit larger than 0.22). I don't know what revolver the first version is made from, but it's probably something like 0.32 or 0.38 --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:25, 20 November 2007 (CST)
::It could be .357 or .44 Magnum for all we know. And it might not be the same caliber in the show. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 17:37, 21 November 2007 (CST)
:::Right on. That's why the article has stayed silent on the matter. We don't really know, and with the switch to the Five-seveN, we're not likely to find out. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:09, 21 November 2007 (CST)

== Railguns ==

In [http://dvice.com/archives/2007/12/9_awesome_gadge.php|this article] on the SCI-FI Channel website, it says "the troops and fighter aircraft on the Galactica use slugs of metal propelled by chemical combustion". If true, this puts an end to the railgun speculation. Is this a reliable source?--[[User:Isidis|Isidis]] 14:55, 3 January 2008 (CST)

Talk:Ionian Nebula/Archive 1

2007-12-29T17:00:42Z

Isidis: New section: Type of Nebula

== The Great Exodus? Not. ==

It is not true that "Lieutenant Felix Gaeta discovers that a nova occurred in the Ionian system which was seen around the same time as the Great Exodus." The Great Exodus was about 2,000 years ago, "around the time the 13 tribes first left Kobol." The Ionian nova was "seen 4,000 years ago, around about when the Temple might have been built," "which lines up with the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe."

It's kind of besides the point, because you've obviously made a 2,000 year blunder, but I think this is how the scriptures make sense:

The 13th tribe left Kobol on a journey to Earth 4,000 years ago. (They, or somebody, soon resettles Kobol.)

The 13 tribes left Kobol for the Colonies 2,000 years ago.

The 13th tribe is all 12 tribes combined. And it is the rag-tag fleet presently; what happened 4,000 years ago is happening again now.

This is a bit speculative, and so should not go onto any pages, but I'm just trying to show you how it could make sense what they say on the show: the 13th tribe left Kobol 4,000 years ago (on a journey to Earth), and also the 13 tribes left Kobol 2,000 years ago (for the 12 Colonies.)

--[[User:MHall|MHall]] 10:54, 21 February 2007 (CST)

:I fixed it. That's also how the timeline article explains it. Anyways, they moved the date back on the show, and for me it doesn't make that much sense to interpret so much into Elosha's one little comment.

:Of course there is also the possibility of them coming from Earth to Kobol around 4000 years ago and then leaving Kobol again, neatly explaining why the dates go backwards farther out. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:11, 21 February 2007 (CST)

::I don't believe this is a correct analysis. The Thirteenth Tribe left 4,000 years PM (prior to Miniseries) as noted in "The Eye of Jupiter". The remaining twelve tribes left 2,000 years later, according to Elosha. Supporting the Thirteenth Tribes' account is Pythia, who wrote her account 3,600 years PM. We may have yet another retcon, but we shouldn't reinterpret the numbers to make sense for our benefit. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:32, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

== Nebula and Earth ==

I see Serenity removed a note about the relationship between the nebula and [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] with the comment "We don't really know anything of how Starbuck went to Earth, or if it's even true. Or if maybe the Cylons went there and they have way better FTL technology."

I'm a bit confused by this comment. What I added was strictly stuff from the show. That Earth is a modest round trip using whatever jump technology that Starbuck has, and that she also feels it is a reasonable trip with fleet technology under her guidance. All that is based on what Starbuck says. She worries we don't know if it's true, and that is the case, but surely we're not trying to make a rule that you can't add things a character has said because they might be a lie. At best one would want to note that there is reason to doubt what they say.

The other note that was deleted simply indicated that Earth was shown to be in very roughly the same region of the Galaxy as the nebula, and that is indeed the case, it's shown quite clearly as the last 4 seconds of the episode, so I'm at a loss for why it would be deleted.

Short of making arguments that Starbuck (or whoever it is) is lying, I think it is Canon that she made a round trip to Earth (using her better jump tech) and that she can take the fleet there. So any other reasons why this should be deleted? {{unsigned|Bradterm}}

:1.) We don't know if she really has been to Earth. It might be true, it might be something else entirely. You can say that she claims to have been to Earth, but until some confirmation is presented, I'm against speculation taking everything at face value. And contrary to what you are implying, this is a special case. Her return is out of the norm and nothing is known about its reason or cause. There is a basis for assuming that not everything might be as it seems.
:2.) If it's true, the only FTL technology available to her is Cylon technology which is considerably more advanced than Colonial technology. Granted, even the Colonials might reach Earth in a few hundred jumps.
:3.) Yes, if it's true, Earth is probably in the general vicinity of the nebula. However, that was not shown "clearly", there is a considerable zoom-out showing the ''entire'' galaxy. But all in all, it just sounded very speculative. In a different version it might be ok with qualifiers, just not in the matter of fact way you phrased it in. But I'm not sure it's really needed. Any other opinions? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:52, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Point is, this is stuff said in the show about the position of Earth WRT the nebula. We should document it. If there is reason to doubt it -- and I'm not saying there isn't such reason -- we should document that too. We don't actually know what sort of FTL tech she used for the round trip to Earth she speaks of, but we do know she claims a RT to Earth. And as for the pull-out, I and many others have gone through that in frame-at-a-time mode, and the pull-out leaves and re-enters the picture of the galaxy at almost exactly the same point. The purpose of that pull out is to show you the connection of the Nebula to Earth and it also seems to confirm Starbuck's claims, though I won't say it's definite. Anyway, my point is this is important information from the show, and rather than removing it, the right course is to document other information that casts doubt on Starbuck's claims.
::::I agree with the sentiment that we should stick with documenting it and let the reader make their own conclusions.

::::However, I don't think that the fact that she's been to Earth and back necessarily implies anything about the distances involved, or the number of jumps remaining, etc. It may be thousands of jumps, but the way she returned to Earth was unconventional. There's no way to know. So I'd almost rather see the "If true" sentence axed. I do really like the zoom note, though, and hadn't really noticed that. Good catch. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:37, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

:::::The zoom out and back in again gives absolutely no clear indication of the true distance between the location of the fleet and Earth. Starbucks viper clearly exploded in Maelstrom so the speculation that her Viper had some kind of advanced FTL drive is just fanwanking, as is stating that she could be a Cylon. Ive watched the zoom out and in bit literally about 20 times trying to work out locations and stuff but its really hard. Just before and just after the wide galaxy shot the glare from the stars fill the screen with brightness so you really can't make any pin pointing. This [[:Image:Locations_in_BSG_galaxy.jpg|rough image]] I made isn't really much help either as we have no idea how much further the fleet has traveled since [[Home, Part II]]. If you'll excuse my fanwanking but if i had to guess where the fleet were it would be on the edge of the Orion arm of our Galaxy as [http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/7108/fleetnz9.png indicated here]. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 16:39, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::Vipers don't have FTL at all. If Starbuck's been to Earth and back as she claims, it's using the technology of the head-leoben people who rescued her. They are not necessarily Cylon, I don't know who added the text about Cylon tech. As for the zoom out-in, I watched it frame by frame and it definitely goes in and out in the same spot. It's not the right spot on a picture of our galaxy, but it's very hard not to read this little sequence, along with Starbuck's claims as the show telling us "Earth is not so far away." How far we don't know, but it's not super far. Starbuck tells us Earth is close. The graphics tell us. That's the main thing I wanted to document.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:28, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

::::::I do not think that [[:Image:Locations_in_BSG_galaxy.jpg|this image]] is correct. As far as I know, our galaxy has a diameter of 100000 light years. The distance shown between Earth and the Colonies in the image are roughly 1000 light years. Between the episodes [[Rapture]] and [[Crossroads, Part II]] the fleet traveled 13000 light years. As long as the fleet did not traveled into the wrong direction the positions shown in the image are wrong. I found [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=683 this screencap]. If I remember correctly, Earth is in this bright cloud at the bottom of the image. The fleet is in the cloud 2 cm above. Earths distance to the galaxy are roughly 30000 light years. Maybe someone can calculate the exact distance between the Ionian Nebula and Earth, but I estimate 5000 light years. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 18:23, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

:::::::The image I made was never supposed to be 100% accurate and was based on the location of the Lagoon nebula. You can read a bit more about it on the [[Navigation in the Re-imagined Series|Navigation]] page. If you want to have a stab at making a new image then go ahead, its all a bit of a mind-frak for me lol --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:28, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

:::::::We are heading into fanwanking territory and too much speculation again. You might think that Starbuck was rescued by the beings of light or whatever, but that doesn't belong on this page. For our purposes the only technology that exists is either human or Cylon. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:09, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::That's why I didn't write anything about the technology itself, it is just the technology of whatever agents were responsible for her survival. We don't know who they are. They aren't colonial. It doesn't match any Cylon technology either -- it's generally accepted it was not Leoben who guided her. To speculate on what it is would be a fanwank, but to identify it as unknown and say little about it is proper documentation of what we are shown. I think to say it is Cylon tech is the fanwank, just as the people who insisted you couldn't be final five if you had been around for more than two years were fanwanking (to negative results) but that's another thread. :-)--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 15:12, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

== Type of Nebula ==

As I understand it (I might be wrong), there are two types of nebula. Both are clouds of dust and similar, but the first type is massive and is the first stage in a star's life sycle. The second is far smaller and comes after a star's supernova. Which of these is likely to apply to the Ionian Nebula?

I think the second definition is more appropriate because Gaeta says there was a supernova there, and that's why the Colonials go in the first place. The Colonials also don't have FTL sensors, and it woud be futile to jump to a random location in a standard pre-star nebula and hope you find something.

But the article says that the nebula is host to a star system with a number of planets. What is the Ionian Nebula more likely to be?--[[User:Isidis|Isidis]] 11:00, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Celestra (RDM)

2007-11-17T06:24:08Z

Isidis:

{{Ship Data
| image= Celestra.JPG
| title= Celestra
| race= Colonial
| type= Civilian
| ftl= Yes
| role= Civilian scientific research ship
}}
:''For this ship's [[Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Celestra (TOS)]].''

The '''''Celestra''''' is an extended-duration research ship.

She is listed on the [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]]/[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] presidential election tally boards ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

The only time the ''Celestra'' has been seen is in the episode [[Water]]. Part of it is visible to the left of ''Colonial One'' in the shot before Roslin speaks to Lee.

==Notes==
*The special effects company for the Re-imagined Series created the SFX rendering of ''Celestra'' in this article.
*The ship was mentioned on the official ''Battlestar Galactica'' web site hosted by the [[Sci Fi Channel]].
*The ''[[Striker]]'' appears to be of the same configuration as the ''Celestra''.
*The ship's name and design is an homage to the [[Original Series]] [[Celestra (TOS)|ship]] from the episode, "[[Take the Celestra]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Celestra (RDM)

2007-11-17T06:23:43Z

Isidis:

{{Ship Data
| image= Celestra.JPG
| title= Celestra
| race= Colonial
| type= Civilian
| ftl= Yes
| role= Civilian scientific research ship
}}
:''For this ship's [[Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Celestra (TOS)]].''

The '''''Celestra''''' is an extended-duration research ship.

She is listed on the [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]]/[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] presidential election tally boards ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

The only time the ''Celestra'' has been seen is in the episode [[Water]]. Part of it is visible to the left of Colonial One in the shot before Roslin speaks to Lee.

==Notes==
*The special effects company for the Re-imagined Series created the SFX rendering of ''Celestra'' in this article.
*The ship was mentioned on the official ''Battlestar Galactica'' web site hosted by the [[Sci Fi Channel]].
*The ''[[Striker]]'' appears to be of the same configuration as the ''Celestra''.
*The ship's name and design is an homage to the [[Original Series]] [[Celestra (TOS)|ship]] from the episode, "[[Take the Celestra]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Celestra (RDM)

2007-11-17T06:23:13Z

Isidis:

{{Ship Data
| image= Celestra.JPG
| title= Celestra
| race= Colonial
| type= Civilian
| ftl= Yes
| role= Civilian scientific research ship
}}
:''For this ship's [[Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Celestra (TOS)]].''

The '''''Celestra''''' is an extended-duration research ship.

She is listed on the [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]]/[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] presidential election tally boards ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

The only time the Celestra has been seen is in the episode [[Water]]. Part of it is visible to the left of Colonial One in the shot before Roslin speaks to Lee.

==Notes==
*The special effects company for the Re-imagined Series created the SFX rendering of ''Celestra'' in this article.
*The ship was mentioned on the official ''Battlestar Galactica'' web site hosted by the [[Sci Fi Channel]].
*The ''[[Striker]]'' appears to be of the same configuration as the ''Celestra''.
*The ship's name and design is an homage to the [[Original Series]] [[Celestra (TOS)|ship]] from the episode, "[[Take the Celestra]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Galactica (TRS)/Archive 1

2007-11-11T20:38:25Z

Isidis:

== Nice Work! ==

I enjoy reading about the new Galactica starship and look forward to more details as the series progresses...and to adding my own edits, too.

Keep up the good work on this page.

:On behalf of the rest of the team, thanks! This wiki has grown a lot from the work of a few hundred people and a lot of readers! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:44, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:I am here, I make the edits. There was little choice in the matter. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]], October 13, 2005

== Formatting Question ==

When formatting the "full name" of ''Galactica'' is it:

*...the ''[[Battlestar]] [[Galactica]]''
*...the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''
or
*...the [[Battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''?

It seems to me that it should be the second.

:"''Galactica''" or "the battlestar ''Galactica''"; never "the ''Galactica''". Battleship and aircraft carrier are not proper nouns, so battlestar isn't either. See [[Battlestar wiki:Standards and Conventions#Ships]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:56, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

==Tallies==

FYI, I'm working on a fairly major revamp of these, using MASON and Joe's source page idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:59, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

:Why does it state that Galactica had 2 squadrons of MKVII's on board the ship at the begining of the series? This would be a big inconsistancy with what we saw in the miniseries.

:At the decommisioning ceremony we see one squadron of vipers led by Apollo doing a flyby. This squadron leaves the ship for Caprica after the ceremony and is rerouted to engage the cylons.

:When Starbuck is released from the brig she reports 20 pilots available but no vipers. Adama then orders the MKII's in the museum pressed into service.

:The squadron of MKVII's led by 'Ripper' is then destroyed by the cylon virus.

:IF there were 2 squadrons of MKVII's on the ship, where is that second squadron during all of this? It didn't launch with Ripper's squadron and it wasn't available for Starbuck and the other stranded pilots to use. (They didn't know the MKVII's were useless until after the first squadron was destroyed.)

:It's more likely that the MKVII's we see at Ragnor and later in the series are made up from homeless vipers that were carried to Ragnor with Roslin's fleet, plus a few spares put together from storage aboard Galactica.

::There are clearly twenty vipers on screen in Ripper's squadron. Galactica is then able to sortie a combined squadron of (roughly) 40 Mk. VIIs and Mk. IIs. This makes perfect sense if Galactica has two squadrons of Mk. VIIs based in its active (port) flight pod, and one squadron of Mk. IIs in the museum (starboard) flight pod.

::As for pilots, presumably the ones with ships had something better to do than be "climbing the walls down here". It's fairly typical for a military operation to have more pilots than craft in any case, so that's not an issue. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:47, 4 December 2005 (EST)

Well if there was another squadron of MVII's available at the time Starbuck mentions the 20 odd pilots in the ready room, where is that second squadron? If they are sortied after Ripper's mission, they would have been destroyed by the virus. If they're in the tubes waiting for a mission, why didn't they sortie to defend the ship?

This second squadron is never seen onscreen or mentioned in dialogue in the miniseries. It's more likely it didn't exist and the later MKVII's are refugees. Those vipers are at least seen on screen once, and later in the series its mentioned that there are some pilots from other battlestars flying off Galactica. (Crashdown is described as a refugee from "Triton", for example.)

:Crashdown was a Raptor pilot; Raptors have FTL and could go to another system, but I don't think Vipers could easily escape to Ragnar that well (unless, like Apollo, they landed on a nearby Civilian ship with Jump engines then escaped aboard that, but that seems unlikely).--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:50, 7 December 2005 (EST)
::Didn't Doral say during the flyby at the museum that it was performed by the last Galactica squadron. Since this was the squadron led by Ripper, it pretty much precludes a second squadron. Also, there could have been several Mk VIIs in storage, for spares or down for repairs. Maybe there were extra Mk IIs stored in the starboard hanger. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:57, 7 December 2005 (EST)
:::It is likely that they were unservicable and awaited transfer to a dock after ''Galactica'' was officially decomissioned. Also, on the off chance that I might be right, there may have been Vipers on other ships that survived as well. (For instance, there may have been a few were stragglers from earlier engagements, or even patrols that didn't see action during the assault on the Colonies that happened upon Roslin's fleet prior to Ragnar.) Just a thought or three... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:33, 7 December 2005 (EST)

::::It would be informative to get an actual headcount during the Battle of Ragnar Anchorage. I have the launch scene about 2/3 analyzed, and will probably be able to finish it next week, but the video quality of my recording isn't perfect. I'll let you know what I come up with, in any case. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:33, 7 December 2005 (EST)

::::Oh, one more thing - In the mini, Adama says "I seem to remember an entire squadron of fighters down in the starboard hangar deck yesterday". If there were two squadrons of Mk. IIs, he would've said so. Again, two squadrons of Mk. VIIs (one destroyed) and one squadron of Mk. IIs fits the on-screen evidence nicely. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:48, 8 December 2005 (EST)

::::The only problem with that is that the second squadron doesn't seem to show up until the battle at Ragnor. What was it doing all this time? If the count of MKVII's is under 20, it makes sense that the MKVII's at Ragnor were made up of a small group of spares that were put together onboard Galactica along with whatever refugees were picked up by Roslin's fleet. We know for sure that there were at least three MKVII's with that fleet that were shown onscreen.--Dallan007
:::::Didn't Starbuck's lines in that scene imply that there were no operational fighters. I believe it was something along the lines of "pilots you got, but Vipers..." I think the Mk VIIs they have were straglers the RTFF picked up before they jumped to Ragnar. These could have been on patrol or something and met up with Colonial One et al. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 00:03, 9 December 2005 (EST)
::::::Maybe the Mk. VII wing wasn't sortied before Ragnar because the systems had to be stripped of Baltar's CNP. There are far too many Mk. VIIs in the Ragnar battle to be anything less than a full wing, though. I'll have a real tally up as soon as I can. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:38, 9 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::They didn't know about the CNP weakness yet. The purging didn't happen until they were at Ragnar, after the first sortie. Remember, it was the same time as Doral was accused of being a Cylon. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:09, 9 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::Perhaps, before the first sortie, Gaeta had the remaining Mark VIIs grounded as a precaution since he hears of the malfunctions from Dualla before the fight and makes the association with the CNP (he's bright that way). Or, yes, the Mark VIIs were gathered up in Roslin's search (most probable since Galactica should launch everything they had in sortie 1, and they would rather send Mark VII's than the museum pieces). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:10, 9 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::The squadron ready room would seem to imply a 20-ship squadron. There are 24 seats in the ready room, 20 pilots plus a few seats for guests like Apollo. Boomer and Helo were flying with the last Mk VII squadron so it would make sense that they would be there in the mini. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:27, 13 December 2005 (EST)

== Redundancy ==
=== Fleet Details ===

'''Designation''': warship, battlestar type, [[Galactica type battlestar|original battlestar class]] (class name unknown).

'''Deployment''': Formerly an element of the [[75th Battlestar Group]] (BSG 75)

'''Current Status''': One of [[Pegasus (RDM) |two]] remaining Colonial military units. ''Galactica'' is commanded by [[William Adama]].

=== Fleet Details Comments ===
The only piece of information in that block which is not mentioned before it is the membership is BSG 75; this was an oversight. I'll add mention of it in the paragraph before. The remainder is redundant and shockingly poor in formatting. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 16:09, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
:Since you've been around and not commented, Merovingian, I'll pull it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:26, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
::I was busy. It's not redundant, and I am restoring it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:46, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
:::What information does it contain that is not elsewhere in this article? --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 13:55, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Boxes provide quick and easy referrence. I mean, we wouldn't have a box listing ship class and armaments by that logic. It's fun, and makes it clearer. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:24, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::That's not a box. The info box made for the purpose does mention the designation and CO. The BSG 75 thing is at best a curiosity utterly unworthy of quick reference, not that I agree that randomly ordered sentence fragments are actually easier to skim. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:36, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Seemed pretty redundant to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:57, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
I still want to delete this. It taunts me in my dreams ...well, not quite, but I don't like it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 22:36, 17 May 2006 (CDT)

===Turrets===
[[Image:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg|thumb|An example of one of ''Galactica's'' large projectile weapons.]]
''Galactica's'' defenses include an array of twenty-four large turret mounted, dual-role twin-cannons, and a multitude of smaller turret mounted twin-guns located between the ''Galactica's'' "[[Frame|ribs]]", along the [[flight pod]]s. Together, these provide the ''Galactica'' with a flak field that acts as a defense perimeter against incoming hostiles ([[Miniseries]], "[[Scattered]]"). In addition, the large cannons represent ''Galactica's'' main anti-capital ship weapon, and have been shown to be quite effective against targets like [[Basestar]]s ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").
=== Turrets Comments ===
I don't mind the picture, though I don't think it adds much. It could be tied to the page simply as an illustration of "Armament" per the title of the larger section.
The composition of the turret armament is discussed on the page for the type. The details on the positioning are slightly incorrect, anyway. That they produce flak is obvious; that the large guns are effective against basestars could be assumed, and, if it must be mentioned, should be mentioned on the page for the type. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 16:09, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

:Agree. [[Galactica type battlestar]] should host details relevant to the ship class in general. [[Galactica (RDM)]] should host information only pertinent to the individual battlestar in question. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:46, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

==Battlestar Group==
See [[talk:Pegasus (RDM)#Battlestar Group|talk on Pegasus page]]

==Improvements for featured article status==
I think that we should make the following minor changes before declaring this a featured article:
*Remove "Fleet Details" section, as this merely duplicates information available in the ship infobox
*Reconsider the implementation of the "running tallies" section. My objection is mainly based on the fact that the current setup precludes the use of footnotes in this article, and is probably more information than the average user is interested in. I personally feel that we should break each tally into a separate article and link it from the appropriate summary in the equipment section.
*If, however, we decide keep the running tallies on this page, a simple retitle of the section to "Sources and Rationalle" is necessary. Also, we should seriously consider moving over to the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tag system, although doing so may make the editing process more cumbersome (with the running tallies scattered throughout the body of the text). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:25, 8 June 2006 (CDT)
:<strike>Item 1</strike>
:As for #2 (a or b)... I don't have a strong feeling either way. It does seem to overwhelm the bottom, and any other footnootes would get drowned out. I guess I'd lean towards them becoming subarticles (of either Galactica (RDM) or of their respective topic (Viper (RDM), Raptor, etc)), or maybe to the front of their respective topics (on the main of Viper (RDM) and Raptor). I'll defer to others on this one, though. Also... could the article stand to have perhaps one more external shot of ''Galactica''? For an article about her, she doesn't get much visibility (outside the small shot in the data box and the gallery down below). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:21, 9 June 2006 (CDT)

::I agree with SteelViper on #2: if you just move it to another article, but keep a link to the tallies section at the bottom, I have no strong feelings on such a change. (BTW, what do you mean "Rationalle"?). --->However, I have to disagree on "Fleet details": I agree that saying its "designation" and "current status" is already in the box, however, the box doesn't mention what Battlestar Group it (nor does this justify changing the box template, because only this article and Pegasus would have such info): I'm going to change it back to a compromise position and tell me what you think. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:04, 9 June 2006 (CDT)
:::On second thought, nevermind: it already says enough about BSG info in the introductory paragraph. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:06, 9 June 2006 (CDT)
::::That's the EXACT same progression I went through. "Hey, that isn't in the... oh. There it is." --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:07, 9 June 2006 (CDT)

I've tried breaking out the Raptor and Viper tallies into their own articles. Let me know what you think; it's easy to revert if people don't like it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:35, 10 June 2006 (CDT)

:I didn't see anything wrong with the breakout; I was severely dismayed by the self-argumentative tone in one section of the article (now revised). I've also made significant concision and adjustments as well as adding more links to material that should give the article more ''ooompf''. I may review this again as I'm sure more things here just didn't sit right with me. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:27, 10 June 2006 (CDT)

What's left todo on this before "FA" status? Also... any thoughts on my picture thought above? (Another external shot of "Big G" somewhere else on this page?) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:32, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

:External shots should be of ''Galactica'' doing something recognizably "Galactica-ish", to contrast with the beauty shots in [[Galactica type battlestar]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:38, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

:Agreed. I've also gone through the article again and given the language more polish and super-conventionized it. I'm happy with the text, but fresh photos of the Big G moving about would be neat. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:54, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

::Looking through the "screenshots" category, I wasn't impressed by the selection. I hit Galacticastation for some examples and looked at the mini since I figured they'd feature her prominently there. I found [http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/mini/001%20(258).htm top view], [http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/mini/001%20(290).htm side viper], and [http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/mini/001%20(572).htm side Fleet]. Of the three, "side Fleet" is my favorite, but that's a fairly small sample. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:59, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

:::They're all pretty nice. We could sprinkle them throughout the article for flavor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:15, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

:::I would love to see "side Fleet" on the pictureless [[The Fleet (RDM)]] article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:33, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

::::Should I go ahead and upload the Galacticastation versions (576x320), or should we have one of our resident screen capture artists grab something higher quality (DVD or High-def)? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:23, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::Upload the ones you've got, and put a notice on [[Battlestar Wiki:Requested Images|Requested Images]] for higher quality versions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:20, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::Internal links to:
::::::[[:Image:Mini gal top.jpg|top view]]
::::::[[:Image:Mini gal side viper.jpg|side viper]]
::::::[[:Image:Mini side fleet.jpg|side fleet]]
::::::They're prepped and ready to be added to the gumbo that is the wiki (though they could probably use better tagging, but being from Galacticastation I'm not sure of the original signal source). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:53, 13 June 2006 (CDT)
:::::::Side viper and top view added. I added them as non-thumbnails in an effort for them to be less intrusive. I left out "side fleet" as that got added to [[the Fleet (RDM)]], but it could be added if somebody wants to make room. We should be careful not to overdo it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:10, 13 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::: I changed them to thumbs because I think it looks cleaner having a clear delineation between text and image. Revert if you wish and we can talk about it. I also added some kind of place-holder captions, which might be improved upon by someone who has a clearer idea of the purpose of the images are (other than look: a space boat). --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:55, 13 June 2006 (CDT)

I added appropriate captions to the thumbs. I'm normally a non-thumb guy as I think we overuse it for pictures where the context is already present and so further captioning is unnecessary, nor do I see the bordering as needed. However, the thumbs here don't detract, so there you go. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:13, 14 June 2006 (CDT)
:So is this good to go for "FA"? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:25, 14 June 2006 (CDT)
::I think the article's come a long way; yes, I believe it's ready. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:32, 14 June 2006 (CDT)
What do you guys think of the orthos I added to the bottom. (Thanks Mercifull, I forgot to add back in the bottom one.) --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:30, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

:That Starship Modeler booger on the 2nd image annoys me since it wasn't their image in the first place. I'd rather get rid of it or get a clean one (it appears to be merely cropped from the first, anyway). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:13, 15 June 2006 (CDT)

== Starboard flight pod ==

That sure as hell looked like the starboard flight pod during the Adama Maneuver. Anyone agree? --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 18:14, 11 November 2006 (CST)
* Not only that, I'm pretty sure I heard a reference in A Measure of Salvation to a landing in the starboard pod. Fair to say it's back in service? [[User:Mr. Random|Mr. Random]] 14:57, 14 November 2006 (CST)

== Missile tubes ==

I think we should include the missile tubes along with Galactica's other weapon systems. When Adama ordered the Galactica to prepare for the ground strike, he had them load tubes 4 through 10, which means there are at least 10 missile tubes. However the effect shot seemed to show (at least to my current recollection) 2 rows of missile tubes, one of which had every door open but one, which would mean Galactica has 14 tubes, at least. She may have more on the other side of the ship (were the tubes mounted on the top of the hull or the bottom? I couldn't tell.) [[User:Gutter Monkey|Gutter Monkey]] 20:55, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Top of the ship, and I think it was 12 tubes not 14. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 22:49, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Yep, definitely twelve tubes; two rows of six. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 03:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:::Good, my eyes aren't failing me (Yet). --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:07, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== Armor plating ==

If I recall, the ribs on ''Galactica's'' hull were supposedly covered with armor plating originally. Which would imply that at the time of the First Cylon War it was in place. However, in the first Razor flashback, there was no armor plating, even though the ship was fairly new at the time. Just an oversight maybe, any thoughts? --[[User:Maserati1945|Maserati1945]] 22:07, 7 October 2007 (CDT)

: Firstly, this has been floating around the fandom for sometime now. I don't know why, because there's nothing official to back it up; the only things that we know got changed on the Big G were the starboard landing bay for it to become a museum. Actually, as so far as we've been able to tell, the ribs are actually part of the design. This seems to be backed up by [[Lee Stringer]], who worked in the Miniseries. [http://www.mediablvd.com/forums/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=180&t=8278 From a post he made on MediaBlvd], "In regards to the ribs, I believe that the ribs were always part of the design. In my opinion, they are a defense feature that would protect the Galactica from any incoming missiles unless they approached it from a perpendicular trajectory. Any angular deviation from 90 degrees would have the missile impact the ribs and not the hull underneath."
: Also, I believe the hull armor removal claim was later refuted as well... I just haven't been able to dig that up yet either.
: Either way, the visible ribbing makes wonderful sense, as you don't need a smooth hull in space for the fact that you don't have any atmospheric drag to worry about. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 22:46, 7 October 2007 (CDT)
::I think it comes from the fact that there are some areas on the hull with seemingly incomplete plating. The armor there is, is very irregular. Sometimes it's just a very small slab of metal that seems to have no function, thus appearing incomplete. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:34, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

== Cargo ==

Is it just me, or do the crates and boxes in Galactica's corridors seem to increase in number over time? In the miniseries, there are nearly none, and by Season 3 they seem to be everywhere. Why exactly would this happen? --[[User:Isidis|Isidis]] 14:38, 11 November 2007 (CST)

Talk:Galactica (TRS)/Archive 1

2007-11-11T20:37:46Z

Isidis: New section: Cargo

Battle of the Communications Relay

2007-11-04T21:11:44Z

Isidis:

{{spoiler}}

{{Battle Data
|image=
|description=Battle of the Communications Relay
|conflict=[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon war]]
|date=Shortly after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]
|place=Unspecified Cylon staging area
|result=Pyhrric Colonial victory
|combatant1=Battlestar ''[[Pegasus]]''
|combatant2=[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]
|co1=Admiral [[Helena Cain]]
|co2=Unknown
|strength1=1 battlestar and assorted [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] squadrons
|strength2=At least 15 squadrons of [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]] and [[Heavy Raider]]s [[Cylon Centurion|Centurions]]
|shiploss1= 32 Vipers destroyed, 61 damaged
|shiploss2=Unknown, severe
|casualties1=Approximately 100 crewmen
|casualties2=One [[Number Six]] Centurion boarding party.
|prev=[[Fall of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]]
|next=[[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]
|rdm=y
}}

This was the battle during which ''[[Pegasus]]'' attacks what it presumed to be a poorly-defended Cylon communications relay, only to find that it was in fact a major staging area shortly after launching its [[vipers]].

{{Battles (RDM)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]