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Someone to Watch Over Me

2009-03-04T14:32:29Z

Hufnmouth: /* Galactica's condition */

{{Episode Data
| image=SomeoneWatchingOverMe.jpg
| title= Someone To Watch Over Me
| season= 4
| episode=17
| guests=
| writer= [[Bradley Thompson]] [[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production=419
| rating=
| US airdate=February 27, 2009 <ref>http://tv.ign.com/articles/920/920164p1.html</ref>
| CAN airdate=February 27, 2009
| UK airdate=March 3, 2009
| dvd=
| population=39556
| oldpopulation=39556
| prev=[[Deadlock]]
| next=[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] discovers a hidden musical ability that bears a mysterious significance to the final five Cylons, and her tune is found to have a connection with three-year-old human-Cylon hybrid [[Hera Agathon|Hera]]. The president authorizes [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]'s extradition from the brig so she can stand trial for treason on the Cylon baseship.''<ref>http://www.locatetv.com/tv/battlestar-galactica/season-4/6118356</ref>

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===
* [[Kara Thrace]] gets out of her bunk and opens her locker. Looking in the mirror, she momentarily sees the image of her own corpse found on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] in the reflection. Disturbed, Kara takes out the bloodstained dog tags recovered from the corpse and stares at them, silently brooding to herself.
* Kara goes through her daily routine - showering, dressing, giving the Cylon and Colonial pilots their assignments, doing paperwork, and drinking at the bar.
* [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] is still searching for a habitable planet. ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' is now experiencing frequent power losses and plumbing disruptions due to the ongoing repair work.
* [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] informs [[Admiral Adama]], [[Lee Adama]], and [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] that the repairs and the Cylon organic substance will buy the ship a few more jumps, but not many. The admiral states that he isn't ready to give up just yet.
* Lee congratulates Sonja, a [[Number Six]] model, on her appointment as the Cylons' representative to the newly-formed Quorum of Ships' Captains.
* Sonja makes a formal request that Boomer be returned to the Cylons. When Adama starts to protest that Boomer tried to kill him, Sonja explains that they don't want Boomer set free. They want to try Boomer for treason, as she sided with [[Cavil]] in the [[Cylon Civil War]].
* When Lee asks what will happen to Boomer if she's convicted, Sonja says that with the loss of their ability to resurrect, the Cylons can now implement capital punishment.
* Tyrol realizes what this means: They're going to kill Boomer.

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
* [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]] do not appear in this episode. As with the previous episode, [[Lee Adama]] appears in only a couple of scenes.
* "[[Wikipedia:Someone to Watch Over Me (song)|Someone To Watch Over Me]]" is the name of a song composed by [[Wikipedia:George Gershwin|George]] and [[Wikipedia:Ira Gershwin|Ira Gershwin]], and featured in the musical [[Wikipedia:Oh, Kay!|''Oh, Kay!'']] A major theme of the song is the need to find love and acceptance, something [[Sharon Valerii]], [[Galen Tyrol]] and [[Kara Thrace]] are all seeking in their own ways.
** There was also an episode of [[w:Star Trek: Voyager|Star Trek: Voyager]] named for the song, in which it is performed at the end by The Doctor.
* Weeks have passed since the end of [[Gaeta's Mutiny|the mutiny]], as evidenced by [[Cottle]]'s comment about how long Anders' EKG readings have remained steady, and Starbuck's comment about how long she has repeated the same mission briefing.
* Starbuck acknowledges her pilots that the mutiny has "thinned our numbers". This, combined with the apparent absence of pilots such as [[Margaret Edmonson]] and [[Diana Seelix]], confirms their involvement in the mutiny did not go unpunished, although exactly what that punishment is remains unknown.
** In the Podcast for "[[Deadlock]]" RDM states that all the mutineers were imprisoned on the [[Astral Queen]].
* After her apparent death in "[[Maelstrom]]", Kara's personal belongings were auctioned off. Helo has managed to get them all back for her. However, the only thing Kara is interested in is her father's music tape.
* Some of the music played by the mysterious piano player is from the original series. [[Numian's 3rd Sonata]], Second Movement, is in fact from the opening dialogue of the classic series ("There are those who believe that life here, began out there..."), and the original [[Cylon]] musical cue is derived from that tune as well. This is not the first time music from the original series has shown up (i.e. the [[Colonial Anthem]]), and lends to the idea that 'everything has happened before, and will happen again'.
* The brand of "[[The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29#Tauron|Tauron]] toothpaste" offered as a prize to the pilots is called "[[Felgercarb]]," a word used in the original series to mean "shit." Tauron comes from Taurus the bull. In essence, Kara is offering the pilot who finds a new planet "bullshittoothpaste".
* The collection of named [[Number Six]] models expands with the addition of [[Sonja]], who becomes the first Cylon to be elected to the Fleet's reconstituted Quorum.
*When Tyrol visits and talks to Boomer for the first time in the Brig, during the conversation Boomer calls Tyrol "Galen" for the first time, at least publicly and on screen. Previously she has only been known to call Tyrol "Chief", perhaps out of reflex action to keep their romance a secret, even though it was the worst kept secret in the fleet.

== Analysis ==
===Galactica's condition ===
*FTL jumps appear to create spatial distortions that can seriously strain a ships hull. Although bad hull damage does not necessarily prevent a ship from jumping (as has been seen many times before in the seasons, for example ''Pegasus'' - which jumped after being hit by three nuclear missiles in [[The Captain's Hand]]) the threat to ''Galactica'' has been compounded by the added riddling of the entire aged superstructure with microfractures. Tigh expresses concern that a jump within the flight pod will seriously strain the internal integrity of the ship. Boomer's FTL jump does eventually appear to cause a chain reaction of hull collapses along ''Galactica's'' port side, a side visibly weakened by Cylon attack, and suffering general aging in the 50+ year old ship's structure.
*The port side of ''Galactica'' which suffers damage in this episode has been seen specifically to suffer major stress before now- particularly during the [[Battle of New Caprica]] when it was mentioned that explosive decompressions were imminent in that section. That side of the ship also saw the port water tank blow out in [[Water]]-as well as damage from a nuclear explosion incurred during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] though these seemed to be repaired it no doubt contributed to the area's hull fatigue.
* Many individuals express fears of the damage an FTL jump can do to ''Galactica'', impying FTL jumps place serious strains on a ships hull–or even the hull of a ship nearby and a degree of hull integrity is important to allow a ship to continue jumping for continued periods. This appears quite a new phenomenon in the canon of the show and was not mentioned in previous seasons, though it of course makes for a convenient plot conceit now. Before this ships have frequently been seen jumping and exiting a jump close to each other in the series with seemingly no ill effects- though it is possible Boomer's Raptor was much closer to Galactica's hull than has ever been seen before. In the episode [[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]] the tylium ship jumped whilst surrounded by Raptors and Vipers and no ship seemed to suffer damage, although they were knocked back and sent tumbling. It should be made clear that smaller objects are proportionally stronger and that larger objects should feel much less shear. It is also possible the stress of by being caught in the FTL field of another vessel rather than that caused by a vessels own, properly configured FTL drive is more powerful and dangerous.
*Given that ''Galactica'' has jumped hundreds of times whilst damaged before now, it is not explained why no damage has occurred before given it is assumed damage will be guaranteed by an unplanned jump in this episode. In the miniseries ''Galactica'' suffered a nuke hit and yet jumped several times later. Also despite falling through the atmosphere of New Caprica ''Galatica'' was able to execute an FTL jump despite the severe strains on the hull. Fears of FTL stress were not mentioned.
** ''Galactica'' has probably been taking damage over the years from multiple jumps and suffering combat damage. It's just that the extent of the damage has not become apparent until now.
** It is in part because of those actions, the atomic strikes and it jumping and falling though into a planet's gravity well and its atmosphere is why ''Galactic''a is suffering from massive metal fatigue, in addition to normal wear and tear of a 50+ year old ship and the fact that she hasn't had a major or even minor overhaul in years even before the the attack on the Colonies has taken their toll. In addition as discovered by Chief Tyrol the builders of ''Galactica'' "cut corners" with the building specifications of the ship. Ironically, if the ''Galactica'' was able to retire on schedule these issues of "substandard" construction wouldn't had come up.
** Further to the point above about small craft being subject to less 'shear', it stands to reason that the size of the disturbance created by a ship executing a jump might be proportional to the size of the ship itself. A large vessel such as the tylium ship may create a widespread but relatively smooth disturbance, so the nearby Raptors would have been like corks bobbing as a wave passed. Conversely, a small vessel such as a Raptor might create a localised but very sharp distortion that poses more risk of damage to a large ship close to it.
*The age of ''Galactica'''s FTL drive might explain why the ship's hull integrity is taxed so badly by her FTL drive - more modern drives might not cause so much stress, and might explain why other Fleet ships and the rebel basestar can continue to jump despite the damage their hulls have taken.
* ''Galactica'' is in very bad shape from the metal fatigue in the hull. It's so bad that Tyrol says that all the [[Cylon organic resin]] could do is buy a little more time, but not too much from the looks of it, and that the ship might only be capable of a few more FTL jumps, if that. The ship is dying of old age and abuse and there's nothing anyone can do save it completely. The damage Boomer created during her escape has no doubt worsened the ship's condition.

===The actions of Boomer===
* Adama has still not forgiven Boomer for shooting him.
* Ellen's escape from Cavil seems to have been orchestrated between him and Boomer in order to get Boomer on ''Galactica'' so she could kidnap Hera according to Ellen's speculation to her husband Saul Tigh.
* The clear liquid substance that Boomer, masquerading as Athena, gave Hera in her sippy cup and urged her to drink up was likely a sedative to keep her quiet in the equipment box she hid her in.
* It would appear that while Cavil was willing to let Ellen go in order to obtain Hera, members of the [[Final Five]] are still of some value to him, as evidenced by Boomer's offer for Tyrol to go with her.
**It is more likely that Boomer genuinely wanted him to come with her because she truly loves him. Bringing him back to John Cavil-if that is where she is headed-would be of no use to him because as Ellen stated he would need all Five of the Finals to recreate Resurrection. In addition to her rekindled love, she has seen-or at least heard about-that it is possible for a Final Five Cylon to mate and have offspring with a "Standard Model" like herself even if Caprica-Six's pregnancy by Saul Tigh failed, so the possibility of a family which she shared with Tyrol in her projection, was open to her.
* Boomer has gone from being a conflicted sleeper agent to being a willing infiltrator and saboteur on ''Galactica''. With her rekindled love for Tyrol, she maybe again conflicted.
* The Cylons want Boomer tried for treason, with execution being a possible outcome, because her actions are linked to the permanent deaths of thousands of Cylons when she sided against her model in the [[Cylon Civil War]]. This parallels the Colonial Fleet's own desire to try [[Gaius Baltar]] for siding against humanity and collaborating with the Cylons on New Caprica.

*It is very possible-but not certain-that the Cylon ability to recognize individual Cylons despite them looking exactly like each other (most of the time, the Sixes seem to have the most variants in hair color and use of makeup, both voluntary actions) relies on actually looking at the individual. In the lavatory where Sharon "Boomer" Valerii severely beats Sharon "Athena" Agathon, Athena initially mistook Boomer as a generic Eight when she saw her in the reflection of a mirror. It was after she stood up, turned around and looked directly at Boomer did Athena recognize her as Boomer. Admittedly however, it is possible that she would had recognized Boomer if she still only watched her in the reflection. Still, she said a full sentence while she looked at her in the mirror-"Great, I hope you are here to fix the frakkin' shower!"-but instantly recognized Boomer the exact moment she saw her directly and not reflected. Perhaps they also need to look the other Cylon square in the eyes, which is what Tyrol does in "[[Deadlock]]" before identifying Boomer.
**Helo did notice that Boomer did smell different. Boomer covered for this saying she found some soap.
***Helo said she smell good not different an she was washing her hands at the time. However there is a relevantce to Helo methining her smell. In a scene from [[Litmus]] Tyrol and Boomer were in bed togeter shortly after engaging in intercourse. He said to her: "Sometimes at work I try to conjure up what your face looks like...Curve of your lips.....The way your hair falls. How you smell." Helo as just noted told Boomer she smelled good just before they had sex.
* Boomer has sex with [[Helo]] by pretending to be [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] after he mistook her for his wife and he insisted after she tried to leave, but then enthusiastically let him believe she was Athena and willingly had sex with him. This is ironic, as Athena originally seduced Helo on [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]], by pretending to be Boomer.
** Boomer's seduction of Helo - in the presence of Athena - may have been motivated by a desire to exact revenge on Athena for having effectively taken over her old life on ''Galactica.''
***She didn't actually seduce Helo. She did try to leave. After his insistence, she did decide to gladly go along with it. It was a unplanned thing on her part so it is doubtful that she planned to have sex in front of Athena. Indeed, she most likely thought that Athena was still out cold. If Boomer thought she wasn't she most likely would had sex with him there for Athena could had warned Helo in the lavatory. Fortunately for Boomer, Athena was in still too much of a daze to do anything but watch.

===Starbuck's role===
* The mysterious piano player is Kara's father, which can be concluded by his sudden disappearance and by the flashbacks with both Kara and her father playing the piano when she was little. These flashbacks mirror the exact same movements done by Captain Thrace and the piano player.<ref>http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1598</ref>
* The title of the tape Kara receives back from Helo is "Dreilide Thrace Live at the Helice [[Opera House]]."
** [[w:Helice|Helice]], also spelled Helike, was an ancient Greek city which sank into the Corinthian Gulf in 373 B.C. It may have formed the basis of the myth of the lost city [[w:Atlantis|Atlantis]].<ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helice</ref><ref>http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/helike.shtml</ref>
** Helice was the ancient Greek name <ref>http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/620003/Ursa-Major</ref> for the constellation [[w:Ursa Major|Ursa Major]] (the Great Bear). Helice in Greek means "to spin" or "to turn"; it is the root of the modern word helix. Ursa Major revolves around [[w:Polaris|Polaris]], the Pole Star, hence the name. This may be a reference to the spinning of the [[maelstrom]] Kara flew into before her ship was destroyed, and it could also refer to the [[mandala]] found on the wall of her apartment and the [[Temple of Five]].
** [[w:Helike_(mythology)|Helice/Helike]] was also the name of a nymph in Greek mythology who nursed the infant [[Zeus]], along with another nymph, Melissa (which name itself means "honey" or "honey bee"). <ref>http://www.constellationsofwords.com/Constellations/UrsaMajor.html</ref>
** [[w:Helike_(moon)|Helike]] is also a newly-discovered moon of [[w:Jupiter|Jupiter]].
** However, the appearance of the word Helice in the show may simply be a tongue-in-cheek reference to [[Bear McCreary]]'s heavy involvement with this episode -- Ursa Major, and McCreary, both being "The Great Bear."<ref>http://tvbacon.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/battlestar-galactica-someone-to-watch-over-me-live-at-the-helice-opera-house/</ref>
*It is possible that Starbuck also has the ability of Projection and she projected the Piano Player beside her when she played a section of "All Along the Watchtower" from the drawing Hera made, which turned out to be musical notation. She, from her POV, was playing a long side of him but when Saul Tigh, Ellen Tigh, and Tory Foster confronted her about where she learned to play that music he was gone. Perhaps it was just standard human daydreaming, or a [[Virtual beings|Virtual being]], but it could had been projection.
===Tyrol and the other Finals===
*The Final Five have the same [[Projection|projection]] ability as the Cylons they created. Cylons can share projections.
* Projections can include not just imaginary environments but also imaginary people, such as Boomer and Tyrol's "daughter" Dionne.
* It also appears that projections might be a form of persistent environment -- similar to real-life virtual worlds such as [[w:Second Life|Second Life]], as Tyrol re-enters Boomer's projection after she escapes with Hera, as if expecting to find her and Dionne still in there.
* The Final Five, [[Hera Agathon]], and [[Kara Thrace]] are all somehow connected to each other by [[The Music]]. Also possibly connected via the song is Kara's [[Dreilide Thrace|mysterious father]].
*Both the Agathons and Tyrol suffer the lost of a daughter: Hera and Tyrol's imaginary daughter from his and Boomer's shared projection; both taken by Boomer. Hera actually, Tyrol's symbolically in Tyrol's solo projection. Both Athena and Tyrol suffer great grief and display it: Athena's primal howls and beating her arm against Helo's back in rage/despair; Tyrol's sinking to his knees and burying his head in his arms and possibly sobbing in his child's empty room in his solo projection (Helo is grieving just as much over the loss of Hera but he is more stoic about it initially. In the previews for the next episode [[Islanded In a Stream of Stars]], it appears the emotional toll over the lost of his daughter is telling when Adama, presumably taking about Hera, "says get over it" to a disheveled Helo).

===The status of Cylons in the Fleet===
* The Cylons seem to have officially joined the Fleet as they now have the representation they wanted on the new Quorum in the form of a Six named Sonja. It is also confirmed that Cylon and Colonial pilots are performing joint [[CAP]]s.
** This is most clearly seen when Athena staggers into the briefing room and Helo orders one of the Sixes to go get the medics, the Six unhesitatingly responds "Yes, Sir". Several Sixes are also seen attending Starbuck's "toothpaste briefing." At the toothpaste briefing, Starbuck states that "Six has the mission assignments," (not, for instance, "''This'' Six..."), and the Six in question holds the assignment sheet up for the other pilots to see.
** The rebel Cylon pilots do not appear to have been commissioned into the Colonial military, as they wear Cylon flight suits and none is addressed by rank.
** The Sixes and Eights appear to use their model numbers as surnames, and are referred to and addressed as "Six" or "Eight". They do not yet appear to have been given individual call-signs.
* Despite integrating allied flight command (at least among manned Heavy Raiders), being represented in the Quorum, and subordinating their Basestar weapons control to President Roslin ("[[Blood on the Scales]]"), the Rebel Cylons have retained some sovereignty and are thus entitled to extradite Sharon "Boomer" Valerii and try her for treason under Cylon law.
* Cylon constitutional law does not prohibit punishments to be inacted ''ex post facto''. Sonja Six explains that a death penalty provision would have been meaningless prior to the destruction of the hub, yet they intend to execute Boomer if she is found guilty for the treason she is accused of committing prior to the hub's destruction.

===Miscellaneous===
* It has been unclear whether Karl Agathon is still the [[Commander Air Group]] (CAG) of Galactica or Kara Thrace officially takes over the CAG as Agathon used to join important staff meetings with Adama & Tigh in previous episodes. However, this episode clearly shows that Thrace is now serving as the CAG of Galactica.

== Questions ==
===Galactica's condition ===
*If jumping in very close proximity to a ship is a very dangerous thing to do then why then in [[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]] when the tylium ship [[Hitei Kan]] jumped away form the intercepting and boarding Vipers nothing happened to them other than being upended?
** It was dangerous for ''Galactica'' because of its failing structure.
** Also, as noted above, the spatial distortion caused by the Raptor's jump, only reaching part of Galactica, would cause much more shearing force and therefore much more stress on the structure. Since the Raptors in "A Disquiet Follows My Soul" are much smaller than the tylium ship, they were pretty much 'bounced' off the spatial rift
* With the ''Galactica'' in the shape she is in now, how are the civilian ships holding up? Are they in a similar condition? Could this explain why there is only 35 ships mentioned remaining in the fleet?
**Very likely much better since they don't take battle damage and generally don't maneuver wildly to attack or evade. However, yes they have been in space constantly for four years likely past several mandatory maintenance checks and overhauls, both minor and major. Still, most of the civilian ships would be in much better shape than ''Galactica'' because they run and don't stand and fight and take hits and many of them are newer than ''Galactica''.
** If 35 is indeed the correct number of ships in the Fleet, then nearly half the Fleet's ships have been lost. Given that few have been seen to be lost on screen, the majority of these losses probably occurred during the rapid evacuation of the settlement of New Caprica. Many ships would have either have been destroyed trying to flee, or left on the planet's surface. Outside of that, several ships might have been abandoned off screen due to deteriorating conditions- presumably after being stripped for parts with the civilians moved to other ships or ''Galactica'' herself.
***The 35 ships mentioned in [[Blood on the Scales]] may have only been the number of ships that had initially sided with Gaeta and Zarek, rather than the total number of ships in the fleet (See the Analysis section of Blood on the Scales).

===The actions of Boomer===
* Is Boomer taking Hera to Cavil, and if so, is she of value to him in and of herself or will he ransom her for the Final Five to rebuild [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]]? Or is Boomer working alone or for a third party? ([[Someone to Watch Over Me#Official Statements|Answer]])
* What was the note Boomer was writing down in her cell when she first sensed Tyrol watching her?
* Did Boomer sleep with Helo merely to maintain her pretense, because she was attracted to him, or to intentionally hurt Athena? ([[Someone to Watch Over Me#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Did Boomer intentionally jump so close to ''Galactica'' in order to further damage the already weakened ship? Is this a prelude to an attack on the Fleet by Cavil's forces?
* Since Boomer was able to find the fleet, why doesn't Cavil just jump in and attack the Fleet? Surely he has superior numbers. Is it merely because of fear of death, since they can no longer resurrect?
** Cavil seems to want Hera- this would only be possible by using Boomer as an infiltrator rather than attacking ''Galactica'' outright. Attacking the Fleet would only result in them jumping away anyway.
*** Also, Cavil probably doesn't want to risk accidentally killing the Final Five, who he needs to regain the ability to resurrect.
===Starbuck's role===
* What is the source of the "Slick" image Starbuck has been seeing? Is he her father? Is he a variation of Kara's Inner Leoben from "[[Maelstrom]]"?
* How did Starbuck and Hera arrive at a piano version of the same [[The Music|melody]] originally played by Anders on a guitar on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]?
* Could Kara be a reincarnation of the woman that Anders originally played the song for?
* Where did the piano in [[Joe's Bar]] come from?
* Will the Helice Opera House have any connection to the visions of the [[Opera House]] shared by Roslin, [[Caprica-Six]], and Athena?
**It is to note that in their shared vision both Athena and President Roslin are depicted running after Hera with Hera then being taken by Baltar and a Six perhaps Virtual Six. In the episode Hera is taken by Boomer. Roslin somehow without knowing what was going on in CIC or the hanger deck reacted to Boomer taking Hera by going into a trance like state and then collapsing the moment Boomer jumped. Presumably Athena is going to try to find Hera, chase her in effect as will presumably Roslin somehow. This all occurs when Starbuck finds the tape of her father performing live at the Helice Opera House . However, no analogous occurrences are known to have happened to Baltar and Caprica Six as Boomer was taking Hera, at least none that has been revealed.

===Tyrol and the other Finals===
* Is the Eight switched with Boomer by Tyrol dead, or merely injured?
** Probably merely injured. It is doubtful Tyrol would have gone so far as to actually kill another Eight to save Boomer. Furthermore, if the Eight had been dead, Tyrol's trickery would have been discovered more quickly.
* Will Tyrol's involvement in Boomer's escape be figured out? Will he confess?
** It will be difficult for him to deny involvement considering the presence of the unconscious Eight he substituted for Boomer in the brig.
***That assumes the Eight can identify him as the one that attacked her in the work area. It was coal pitch black dark when he knocked her out. Still, the circumstance of him being the one to restore power to the Cell Area and knowing how hard he pleaded for Boomer's life makes him a natural suspect. What could convict him beyond doubt is if people on the hanger deck remember him helping "Athena" - as everyone thought at the time - with that large very heavy equipment box. It is known that Cylons can tell each other apart on sight despite them being indistinguishable to humans. If someone recalls Tyrol helping so-called "Athena" that will be used as proof positive that Tyrol was complicit in her escape, Tyrol cannot plead truthful ignorance like Helo can when he thought Boomer was his wife and had sex with her.
* If Tyrol's treachery does come to light, how will others react? What would Athena do to him? Helo?
* If Tyrol had gone with Boomer, would Cavil have opened his brain as he threatened to do with Ellen?
* Is Anders' head being kept shaved and if so why? If, as Cottle suggests, it has been weeks since his operation, his hair should presumably be growing back. Perhaps it is to make it easier to monitor his unusual EEG traces.
*Generally Tory Foster's attitudes toward humans is more in line with Cavil than the Rebel Cylons. Given Tory's consistant anti human statements positions and actions is it possible that she has contacted the Cavil faction of the Cylons given her contempt for humanity and her desire to abandon them? This could be a possible way that Cavil located the Fleet if he indeed sent Boomer to kidnap Hera.
===The status of Cylons in the Fleet===
* Why was Sonja elected to represent the Cylons?
** The Sixes appear to be the most influential leaders within the rebel Cylon society, and posess the most individuality. [[Caprica-Six]] sowed the seeds of the [[Cylon Civil War]], Natalie led the revolt, and Sixes generally were in senior positions in the occupation government of [[New Caprica]].
* Do all the ships in the Fleet - regardless of their relative crew and passenger size - get to send representatives to the new Quorum? (This is similar to the situation the Framers of the United States Constitution faced when trying to decide if state representation in Congress should be based on individual state population or restricted to the same number of representatives per state).
* To what extent are the semi-sentient Raiders and Centurions integrated into the Colonial or allied military force?
**Likely none in terms of an integrated force; that is they are still under the Humanoid Cylon's control in the Baseship. Only Cylon Heavy Raiders are holding joint operations with Colonial forces and they require a Cylon Humanoid pilot.
* Given their new mortality, desire to sustain their species, breeding difficulty, and integration with Colonial society (at least within the military and government sectors), are the rebel Cylons attempting (consciously or unconciously) to find human matches for themselves?
===Miscellaneous===
* What is Roslin's physical status?
* What connection is there between Roslin's collapse and Hera's kidnapping?
**Yes, there is one, that was made clear by the intrcutting betwen Boomer's escape, CIC and her trance like state, culminating in her saying "Hera" right after Boomer jumped from ''Galactica''. The ''exact'' nature of is still unclear.
* Despite being rudely put down by Dr. Cottle, was the Eight at Anders's bedside giving a correct assessment on what Anders's brain was doing when she speculated "Well, maybe his brain is rebooting, reorganizing as it heals?"?
*Will the Eight's idea of plugging Anders into the [[datastream]] lead anywhere?
**In the previews for the next episode "[[Islanded In a Stream of Stars]]", Anders's is depicted in either a Resurrection tank or a Hybrid's pool with his wife Kara Thrace by his side. He reaches up and grabs her wrist. Assuming this isn't a dream or some other false image, it looks like they will try out the Eight's suggestion.
*When Starbuck follows up her offer of Tauron toothpaste with the comment "Gods know most of you need it," is it merely a joke, or an indicator that ''all'' toothpaste stocks are running out? If so, this would mean that dental hygiene, a measure of basic physical health, is deteriorating.
*Why was Hera unable to differentiate between Boomer and Athena, despite having previously shown the ability to do so in the episode "[[Rapture]]"?

== Official Statements ==
*Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune interviews David Weddle and Bradley Thompson<ref>http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-starbuck-boomer-someone-to-watch-over-me-.html</ref>:
**Boomer had a sick desire to strike out at Athena.
**Boomer's escape with Ellen was staged so that she could kidnap Hera. She intended to just use the Chief, but their interactions did awaken feelings she thought were dead.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Ellen Tigh, Saul Tigh, and Tory Foster are in Joe's bar. Saul is remarking at the state of someone they cared about:''

:Saul: Cottle was right, I should've never insisted on seeing him. His eyes were open! I wasn't ready for that. The little guy was looking right at me!

::''Saul was not talking about Anders (in a coma with his eyes open) but the body of his dead son Liam that was delivered stillborn after he died in utero but whose corpse he insisted on seeing.''

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[S. Cottle]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Roark Critchlow]] as [[Slick]]
* [[Iliana Gomez-Martinez]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant [[Louis Hoshi]]
* [[ Torrance Coombs]] as Lance Corporal [[C. Sellers]]
* [[Ivan Cermak]] as Corporal [[D. Wallace]]
* [[Curtis Caravaggio]] as [[Nathanson]]
* [[Cherilynn Fulbright]] as [[Dionne]]
* [[Patrick Gilmore]] as [[Rafferty]]
* [[Samantha Caine]] as Off-duty Crew Person
* [[Erika-Shaye Gair]] as Young [[Kara Thrace]]
* [[Darcy Laurie]] as [[Dealino]]
* [[Sonja Bennett]] as Specialist [[Marcie Brasko]]
* [[David Weddle]] as Smoking man in [[Joe's bar]] (uncredited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]

Talk:Blood on the Scales/Archive 1

2009-02-09T15:23:24Z

Hufnmouth: /* Some symbolism */ new section

{{newsection link}}

== Episode Title Confirmation ==

Please submit the source of this episode title's name in the article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:The source is (kinda) noted in the article: [http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/2008/05/angeli-also-rises.html] -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

==What was that device Roslin and Leoben were using to communicate with the rest of the Fleet?==
Best guess its a part from the Commsystem of Starbucks Viper that was capable of receiving the homing signal from earth, that noone else could receive. We saw Starbuck and Leoben track down the signal on earth so they probably removed it from the Viper and had it with them. Given Starbucks reaction to finding her body and everyone else being told nothing had been found, it imaginable that Leoben simply kept it, as noone else was bothering about it. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 23:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

== FTL room damage ==

Am I the only one who thinks the damage Tyrol finds looks like giant scratch marks? [[User:nuxi|nuxi]]
:That was my initial reaction as well. Raptors! I guess we'll find out soon... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 03:25, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
::Isn't that the same damage Adama found in his quartes in the clip shown in that YouWillKnowTheTruth site??? It looks the same!! [[User:Tanketai|tanketai]] 15:22, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

== Some symbolism ==

The symbolism of Colonial One landing on Galactica is an indication of the authocratic leadership that is taking place. A merging of politics and military is akin to the German's "Night of the Long Knives" in 1934. On that night (two days actually) Hitler began the consolidation of his power with the military by assassinating both political and paramilitary threats. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 15:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

2009-01-18T22:39:26Z

Hufnmouth:

{{newsection link}}

== Half-Season ==

Are we sure that Sometimes a Great Notion will be aired before the midseason break? I've seen the first half-season referred to as consisting of ten episodes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
: It's not on the SFC schedule, so I've removed it. Someone must've been overzealous in their addition of the airdates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Writers ==

In the podcast for Revelations, RDM states that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson will be writing this episode. I though I should bring it up here rather than add it to the article as I'm a relatively new member here, and am still unfamiliar with the editing process.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 23:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: That's all right, Pentagonal. Feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] take it upon yourself to add it, as long as it's [[BW:CJ|cited]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, but it wasn't so much that I was apprehensive to edit the page, but more that i'm not quite sure how. I really haven't taken the time to learn how to use the editing software, (which is something I'm planning on doing shortly) so i thought it best to bring it up here and have someone willing and able add it.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I added it. You can see the difference [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Sometimes_a_Great_Notion&diff=165728&oldid=164802 here]. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Many thanks.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Title ==

''The title of the episode comes from the blues song "Goodnight, Irene," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown."'' Is this a fact? There's no citation. It's also the title of a song by John Mellencamp. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 17:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:And, though I don't know if it has to do with anything, the first line of the Mellencamp song, "Never give an inch," is a reference to ''Sometimes a Great Notion'', a novel by Ken Kesey. [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::The episode title is a reference to Ken Kesey's novel -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Buried Centurion Head ==

Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Guest stars==

As an avid credit watcher I thought I'd point out that as of the very beginning of season 4 Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, Tahmoh Penikett, Michael Trucco, Alessandro Juliani and Kandyse McClure have all been credited as starring cast members. I've removed them from the guest star section for this episode accordingly.--[[User:Opark 77|Opark 77]] 11:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Just need a second verification and we should edit [[Season 4 (2008)]] as well. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Uh, if you're an avid credit watcher, as you say, then you should know that those name (give or takes a few) have been like that since "33". And it's not just this show that has this sort of thing. Nor, is it a recent trend; I can date the post star/pre-guest star credit thing back to a show from 1989 and few since. That's always been a thorn in trying to figure that out. I will say that if they're stars, then they're names wouldn't come and go based on an episode-by-episode basis like that seeing as how all the ones in the main credits remain regardless (with the exception of Katee's, but that was only to sell the whole "Kara is dead" thing). Until someone can convince me otherwise, I say they're co-stars, who just get upfront credits for some sort of contractual reason. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::As I understand it, '''Mars''', it's really nothing more than a monetary issue. The main cast, whose names are credited every week during the main opening credits sequence, are paid regardless of whether or not they actually shoot any scenes for the episode. A recurring or supporting character would not be credited if they weren't used in a particular episode, so they wouldn't have to be paid, but they would be credited before guest characters. A good example of this outside of BSG would be Teryl Rothery ("Dr. Fraiser") on Stargate SG-1. --[[User:Antarctic Fox|Antarctic Fox]] 17:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Resurrection and the split of the 13th Tribe ==

The dialogue in this episode about the "Final Five"'s previous lives on Earth reminded me of what Virtual said to Baltar n [[Fragged]], about how anyone who was killed on Kobol was dead forever. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway bit of Virtual Six's usual religious zealotry, but after Ellen Tigh's remark in Tigh's vision/flashback about everything being "in place" for their rebirth after the holocaust, I'm no longer so sure.

So, here's a bit of speculation. We know from the advance buzz on ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' that the origins of the Colonies' Cylons had to do with [[Daniel Graystone]]'s efforts to resurrect his daughter in an artificial body -- something that presumably would become a very, very controversial idea if applied on a large scale. Maybe that kind of controversy had something to do with the original departure of the Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol. Perhaps their resurrection system was outlawed on Kobol, leading to their exodus. The existence of the ancient probe in [[Torn]] supports the idea that resurrection technology may well have existed thousands of years ago; that episode really made the virus seem like a biological weapon, and the fact that it infected Cylons through the resurrection process may not have been accidental. Was it created to prevent the Thirteenth Tribe from ''leaving'' Earth to return to Kobol? (In that case, maybe what Ellen meant when she said "Everything is in place" was that some of the Thirteenth Tribe had figured out a way to circumvent the various defenses/mechanisms preventing them from rejoining the Twelve. {{unsigned|Argentla}}
:Hi Argentia. More people will hear about your thoughts in a place better built for it, so why not take your thoughts to [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=2307 the Battlestar Forum episode thread?] (That way, the talk page is left free for questions about the formatting or proper interpretation of what should be in this article itself.) Lots of people are there to talk about it! --22:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Ron Moore's Commentary==
Ron's commentary accompanying SAGN is up on Hulu. He reveals a lot of the driving forces of the story - both in the mythology and in real-life. He also adds some commentary on the episodes framing which adds to the ugliness of the episode. Lastly, it appears Ron is partaking of some interesting "stuff" during the commentary. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

2009-01-18T22:37:18Z

Hufnmouth: /* Ron Moore's Commentary */

{{newsection link}}

== Half-Season ==

Are we sure that Sometimes a Great Notion will be aired before the midseason break? I've seen the first half-season referred to as consisting of ten episodes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
: It's not on the SFC schedule, so I've removed it. Someone must've been overzealous in their addition of the airdates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Writers ==

In the podcast for Revelations, RDM states that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson will be writing this episode. I though I should bring it up here rather than add it to the article as I'm a relatively new member here, and am still unfamiliar with the editing process.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 23:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: That's all right, Pentagonal. Feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] take it upon yourself to add it, as long as it's [[BW:CJ|cited]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, but it wasn't so much that I was apprehensive to edit the page, but more that i'm not quite sure how. I really haven't taken the time to learn how to use the editing software, (which is something I'm planning on doing shortly) so i thought it best to bring it up here and have someone willing and able add it.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I added it. You can see the difference [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Sometimes_a_Great_Notion&diff=165728&oldid=164802 here]. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Many thanks.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Title ==

''The title of the episode comes from the blues song "Goodnight, Irene," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown."'' Is this a fact? There's no citation. It's also the title of a song by John Mellencamp. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 17:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:And, though I don't know if it has to do with anything, the first line of the Mellencamp song, "Never give an inch," is a reference to ''Sometimes a Great Notion'', a novel by Ken Kesey. [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::The episode title is a reference to Ken Kesey's novel -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Buried Centurion Head ==

Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Guest stars==

As an avid credit watcher I thought I'd point out that as of the very beginning of season 4 Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, Tahmoh Penikett, Michael Trucco, Alessandro Juliani and Kandyse McClure have all been credited as starring cast members. I've removed them from the guest star section for this episode accordingly.--[[User:Opark 77|Opark 77]] 11:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Just need a second verification and we should edit [[Season 4 (2008)]] as well. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Uh, if you're an avid credit watcher, as you say, then you should know that those name (give or takes a few) have been like that since "33". And it's not just this show that has this sort of thing. Nor, is it a recent trend; I can date the post star/pre-guest star credit thing back to a show from 1989 and few since. That's always been a thorn in trying to figure that out. I will say that if they're stars, then they're names wouldn't come and go based on an episode-by-episode basis like that seeing as how all the ones in the main credits remain regardless (with the exception of Katee's, but that was only to sell the whole "Kara is dead" thing). Until someone can convince me otherwise, I say they're co-stars, who just get upfront credits for some sort of contractual reason. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::As I understand it, '''Mars''', it's really nothing more than a monetary issue. The main cast, whose names are credited every week during the main opening credits sequence, are paid regardless of whether or not they actually shoot any scenes for the episode. A recurring or supporting character would not be credited if they weren't used in a particular episode, so they wouldn't have to be paid, but they would be credited before guest characters. A good example of this outside of BSG would be Teryl Rothery ("Dr. Fraiser") on Stargate SG-1. --[[User:Antarctic Fox|Antarctic Fox]] 17:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Resurrection and the split of the 13th Tribe ==

The dialogue in this episode about the "Final Five"'s previous lives on Earth reminded me of what Virtual said to Baltar n [[Fragged]], about how anyone who was killed on Kobol was dead forever. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway bit of Virtual Six's usual religious zealotry, but after Ellen Tigh's remark in Tigh's vision/flashback about everything being "in place" for their rebirth after the holocaust, I'm no longer so sure.

So, here's a bit of speculation. We know from the advance buzz on ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' that the origins of the Colonies' Cylons had to do with [[Daniel Graystone]]'s efforts to resurrect his daughter in an artificial body -- something that presumably would become a very, very controversial idea if applied on a large scale. Maybe that kind of controversy had something to do with the original departure of the Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol. Perhaps their resurrection system was outlawed on Kobol, leading to their exodus. The existence of the ancient probe in [[Torn]] supports the idea that resurrection technology may well have existed thousands of years ago; that episode really made the virus seem like a biological weapon, and the fact that it infected Cylons through the resurrection process may not have been accidental. Was it created to prevent the Thirteenth Tribe from ''leaving'' Earth to return to Kobol? (In that case, maybe what Ellen meant when she said "Everything is in place" was that some of the Thirteenth Tribe had figured out a way to circumvent the various defenses/mechanisms preventing them from rejoining the Twelve. {{unsigned|Argentla}}
:Hi Argentia. More people will hear about your thoughts in a place better built for it, so why not take your thoughts to [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=2307 the Battlestar Forum episode thread?] (That way, the talk page is left free for questions about the formatting or proper interpretation of what should be in this article itself.) Lots of people are there to talk about it! --22:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== /*Ron Moore's Commentary*/ ==

==Ron Moore's Commentary==
Ron's commentary accompanying SAGN is up on Hulu. He reveals a lot of the driving forces of the story - both in the mythology and in real-life. He also adds some commentary on the episodes framing which adds to the ugliness of the episode. Lastly, it appears Ron is partaking of some interesting "stuff" during the commentary. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

2009-01-18T22:35:39Z

Hufnmouth: /* /*Ron Moore's Commentary*/ */ new section

{{newsection link}}

== Half-Season ==

Are we sure that Sometimes a Great Notion will be aired before the midseason break? I've seen the first half-season referred to as consisting of ten episodes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
: It's not on the SFC schedule, so I've removed it. Someone must've been overzealous in their addition of the airdates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Writers ==

In the podcast for Revelations, RDM states that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson will be writing this episode. I though I should bring it up here rather than add it to the article as I'm a relatively new member here, and am still unfamiliar with the editing process.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 23:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: That's all right, Pentagonal. Feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] take it upon yourself to add it, as long as it's [[BW:CJ|cited]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, but it wasn't so much that I was apprehensive to edit the page, but more that i'm not quite sure how. I really haven't taken the time to learn how to use the editing software, (which is something I'm planning on doing shortly) so i thought it best to bring it up here and have someone willing and able add it.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I added it. You can see the difference [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Sometimes_a_Great_Notion&diff=165728&oldid=164802 here]. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Many thanks.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Title ==

''The title of the episode comes from the blues song "Goodnight, Irene," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown."'' Is this a fact? There's no citation. It's also the title of a song by John Mellencamp. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 17:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:And, though I don't know if it has to do with anything, the first line of the Mellencamp song, "Never give an inch," is a reference to ''Sometimes a Great Notion'', a novel by Ken Kesey. [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::The episode title is a reference to Ken Kesey's novel -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Buried Centurion Head ==

Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Guest stars==

As an avid credit watcher I thought I'd point out that as of the very beginning of season 4 Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, Tahmoh Penikett, Michael Trucco, Alessandro Juliani and Kandyse McClure have all been credited as starring cast members. I've removed them from the guest star section for this episode accordingly.--[[User:Opark 77|Opark 77]] 11:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Just need a second verification and we should edit [[Season 4 (2008)]] as well. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Uh, if you're an avid credit watcher, as you say, then you should know that those name (give or takes a few) have been like that since "33". And it's not just this show that has this sort of thing. Nor, is it a recent trend; I can date the post star/pre-guest star credit thing back to a show from 1989 and few since. That's always been a thorn in trying to figure that out. I will say that if they're stars, then they're names wouldn't come and go based on an episode-by-episode basis like that seeing as how all the ones in the main credits remain regardless (with the exception of Katee's, but that was only to sell the whole "Kara is dead" thing). Until someone can convince me otherwise, I say they're co-stars, who just get upfront credits for some sort of contractual reason. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::As I understand it, '''Mars''', it's really nothing more than a monetary issue. The main cast, whose names are credited every week during the main opening credits sequence, are paid regardless of whether or not they actually shoot any scenes for the episode. A recurring or supporting character would not be credited if they weren't used in a particular episode, so they wouldn't have to be paid, but they would be credited before guest characters. A good example of this outside of BSG would be Teryl Rothery ("Dr. Fraiser") on Stargate SG-1. --[[User:Antarctic Fox|Antarctic Fox]] 17:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Resurrection and the split of the 13th Tribe ==

The dialogue in this episode about the "Final Five"'s previous lives on Earth reminded me of what Virtual said to Baltar n [[Fragged]], about how anyone who was killed on Kobol was dead forever. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway bit of Virtual Six's usual religious zealotry, but after Ellen Tigh's remark in Tigh's vision/flashback about everything being "in place" for their rebirth after the holocaust, I'm no longer so sure.

So, here's a bit of speculation. We know from the advance buzz on ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' that the origins of the Colonies' Cylons had to do with [[Daniel Graystone]]'s efforts to resurrect his daughter in an artificial body -- something that presumably would become a very, very controversial idea if applied on a large scale. Maybe that kind of controversy had something to do with the original departure of the Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol. Perhaps their resurrection system was outlawed on Kobol, leading to their exodus. The existence of the ancient probe in [[Torn]] supports the idea that resurrection technology may well have existed thousands of years ago; that episode really made the virus seem like a biological weapon, and the fact that it infected Cylons through the resurrection process may not have been accidental. Was it created to prevent the Thirteenth Tribe from ''leaving'' Earth to return to Kobol? (In that case, maybe what Ellen meant when she said "Everything is in place" was that some of the Thirteenth Tribe had figured out a way to circumvent the various defenses/mechanisms preventing them from rejoining the Twelve. {{unsigned|Argentla}}
:Hi Argentia. More people will hear about your thoughts in a place better built for it, so why not take your thoughts to [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=2307 the Battlestar Forum episode thread?] (That way, the talk page is left free for questions about the formatting or proper interpretation of what should be in this article itself.) Lots of people are there to talk about it! --22:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== /*Ron Moore's Commentary*/ ==

==Ron Moore's Commentary==
Ron's commentary accompanying SAGN is up on Hulu. He reveals a lot of the driving forces of the story - both in the mythology and in real-life. He also adds some commentary on the episodes framing which adds to the ugliness of the episode. Lastly, it appears Ron is partaking of some interesting "stuff" during the commentary.

Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

2009-01-18T22:23:17Z

Hufnmouth: /* Buried Centurion Head */

{{newsection link}}

== Half-Season ==

Are we sure that Sometimes a Great Notion will be aired before the midseason break? I've seen the first half-season referred to as consisting of ten episodes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
: It's not on the SFC schedule, so I've removed it. Someone must've been overzealous in their addition of the airdates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Writers ==

In the podcast for Revelations, RDM states that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson will be writing this episode. I though I should bring it up here rather than add it to the article as I'm a relatively new member here, and am still unfamiliar with the editing process.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 23:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: That's all right, Pentagonal. Feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] take it upon yourself to add it, as long as it's [[BW:CJ|cited]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, but it wasn't so much that I was apprehensive to edit the page, but more that i'm not quite sure how. I really haven't taken the time to learn how to use the editing software, (which is something I'm planning on doing shortly) so i thought it best to bring it up here and have someone willing and able add it.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I added it. You can see the difference [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Sometimes_a_Great_Notion&diff=165728&oldid=164802 here]. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Many thanks.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Title ==

''The title of the episode comes from the blues song "Goodnight, Irene," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown."'' Is this a fact? There's no citation. It's also the title of a song by John Mellencamp. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 17:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:And, though I don't know if it has to do with anything, the first line of the Mellencamp song, "Never give an inch," is a reference to ''Sometimes a Great Notion'', a novel by Ken Kesey. [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::The episode title is a reference to Ken Kesey's novel -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Buried Centurion Head ==

Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Guest stars==

As an avid credit watcher I thought I'd point out that as of the very beginning of season 4 Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, Tahmoh Penikett, Michael Trucco, Alessandro Juliani and Kandyse McClure have all been credited as starring cast members. I've removed them from the guest star section for this episode accordingly.--[[User:Opark 77|Opark 77]] 11:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Just need a second verification and we should edit [[Season 4 (2008)]] as well. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Uh, if you're an avid credit watcher, as you say, then you should know that those name (give or takes a few) have been like that since "33". And it's not just this show that has this sort of thing. Nor, is it a recent trend; I can date the post star/pre-guest star credit thing back to a show from 1989 and few since. That's always been a thorn in trying to figure that out. I will say that if they're stars, then they're names wouldn't come and go based on an episode-by-episode basis like that seeing as how all the ones in the main credits remain regardless (with the exception of Katee's, but that was only to sell the whole "Kara is dead" thing). Until someone can convince me otherwise, I say they're co-stars, who just get upfront credits for some sort of contractual reason. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::As I understand it, '''Mars''', it's really nothing more than a monetary issue. The main cast, whose names are credited every week during the main opening credits sequence, are paid regardless of whether or not they actually shoot any scenes for the episode. A recurring or supporting character would not be credited if they weren't used in a particular episode, so they wouldn't have to be paid, but they would be credited before guest characters. A good example of this outside of BSG would be Teryl Rothery ("Dr. Fraiser") on Stargate SG-1. --[[User:Antarctic Fox|Antarctic Fox]] 17:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Resurrection and the split of the 13th Tribe ==

The dialogue in this episode about the "Final Five"'s previous lives on Earth reminded me of what Virtual said to Baltar n [[Fragged]], about how anyone who was killed on Kobol was dead forever. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway bit of Virtual Six's usual religious zealotry, but after Ellen Tigh's remark in Tigh's vision/flashback about everything being "in place" for their rebirth after the holocaust, I'm no longer so sure.

So, here's a bit of speculation. We know from the advance buzz on ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' that the origins of the Colonies' Cylons had to do with [[Daniel Graystone]]'s efforts to resurrect his daughter in an artificial body -- something that presumably would become a very, very controversial idea if applied on a large scale. Maybe that kind of controversy had something to do with the original departure of the Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol. Perhaps their resurrection system was outlawed on Kobol, leading to their exodus. The existence of the ancient probe in [[Torn]] supports the idea that resurrection technology may well have existed thousands of years ago; that episode really made the virus seem like a biological weapon, and the fact that it infected Cylons through the resurrection process may not have been accidental. Was it created to prevent the Thirteenth Tribe from ''leaving'' Earth to return to Kobol? (In that case, maybe what Ellen meant when she said "Everything is in place" was that some of the Thirteenth Tribe had figured out a way to circumvent the various defenses/mechanisms preventing them from rejoining the Twelve. {{unsigned|Argentla}}
:Hi Argentia. More people will hear about your thoughts in a place better built for it, so why not take your thoughts to [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=2307 the Battlestar Forum episode thread?] (That way, the talk page is left free for questions about the formatting or proper interpretation of what should be in this article itself.) Lots of people are there to talk about it! --22:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Cylon Homeworld ==

The revelations of this episode also raise another provocative question: IS there a Cylon homeworld (other than Earth, thousands of years ago)? At one point, RDM mentioned that we would probably never seen the Cylon homeworld, because he felt it would be creatively problematic, but now I wonder if it exists at all. The Colonials have always assumed there was one, somewhere behind the Armistice Line, but my recollection is that all the dialogue referring to it comes from human characters (Baltar, Gaeta, Kara). In [[Downloaded]], both Six and Boomer are resurrected on Caprica, not elsewhere.

After the Armistice, did the Cylons just wander in space the same way the Fleet is, occasionally taking resources from the planets they encountered (just as ''Galactica'' has), but not actually settling anywhere specific? Maybe their original motivation in attacking the Colonies -- the original Plan alluded to in the early seasons' credits -- was ''Lebensraum'', claiming the territory of the Colonies for their own expansion. (That would explain why they were going to so much trouble to clean up Caprica (and presumably the other Colonies, even if we never see it for budgetary reasons) even after nuking it.)

Has any Cylon character explicitly confirmed the existence of a Cylon homeworld? Three's comments in this episode about wandering in space make it seem like she doesn't have a home to return to; Cavill's belligerence might make it impossible for her to return to the Cylon homeworld if there were one, but if that were the case, wouldn't she say so?

Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

2009-01-18T22:22:32Z

Hufnmouth: /* Episode Title */

{{newsection link}}

== Half-Season ==

Are we sure that Sometimes a Great Notion will be aired before the midseason break? I've seen the first half-season referred to as consisting of ten episodes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
: It's not on the SFC schedule, so I've removed it. Someone must've been overzealous in their addition of the airdates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Writers ==

In the podcast for Revelations, RDM states that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson will be writing this episode. I though I should bring it up here rather than add it to the article as I'm a relatively new member here, and am still unfamiliar with the editing process.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 23:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: That's all right, Pentagonal. Feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] take it upon yourself to add it, as long as it's [[BW:CJ|cited]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, but it wasn't so much that I was apprehensive to edit the page, but more that i'm not quite sure how. I really haven't taken the time to learn how to use the editing software, (which is something I'm planning on doing shortly) so i thought it best to bring it up here and have someone willing and able add it.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I added it. You can see the difference [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Sometimes_a_Great_Notion&diff=165728&oldid=164802 here]. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Many thanks.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Title ==

''The title of the episode comes from the blues song "Goodnight, Irene," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown."'' Is this a fact? There's no citation. It's also the title of a song by John Mellencamp. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 17:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:And, though I don't know if it has to do with anything, the first line of the Mellencamp song, "Never give an inch," is a reference to ''Sometimes a Great Notion'', a novel by Ken Kesey. [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::The episode title is a reference to Ken Kesey's novel -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Buried Centurion Head ==

Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge.[[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]]
::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Guest stars==

As an avid credit watcher I thought I'd point out that as of the very beginning of season 4 Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, Tahmoh Penikett, Michael Trucco, Alessandro Juliani and Kandyse McClure have all been credited as starring cast members. I've removed them from the guest star section for this episode accordingly.--[[User:Opark 77|Opark 77]] 11:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Just need a second verification and we should edit [[Season 4 (2008)]] as well. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Uh, if you're an avid credit watcher, as you say, then you should know that those name (give or takes a few) have been like that since "33". And it's not just this show that has this sort of thing. Nor, is it a recent trend; I can date the post star/pre-guest star credit thing back to a show from 1989 and few since. That's always been a thorn in trying to figure that out. I will say that if they're stars, then they're names wouldn't come and go based on an episode-by-episode basis like that seeing as how all the ones in the main credits remain regardless (with the exception of Katee's, but that was only to sell the whole "Kara is dead" thing). Until someone can convince me otherwise, I say they're co-stars, who just get upfront credits for some sort of contractual reason. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::As I understand it, '''Mars''', it's really nothing more than a monetary issue. The main cast, whose names are credited every week during the main opening credits sequence, are paid regardless of whether or not they actually shoot any scenes for the episode. A recurring or supporting character would not be credited if they weren't used in a particular episode, so they wouldn't have to be paid, but they would be credited before guest characters. A good example of this outside of BSG would be Teryl Rothery ("Dr. Fraiser") on Stargate SG-1. --[[User:Antarctic Fox|Antarctic Fox]] 17:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Resurrection and the split of the 13th Tribe ==

The dialogue in this episode about the "Final Five"'s previous lives on Earth reminded me of what Virtual said to Baltar n [[Fragged]], about how anyone who was killed on Kobol was dead forever. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway bit of Virtual Six's usual religious zealotry, but after Ellen Tigh's remark in Tigh's vision/flashback about everything being "in place" for their rebirth after the holocaust, I'm no longer so sure.

So, here's a bit of speculation. We know from the advance buzz on ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' that the origins of the Colonies' Cylons had to do with [[Daniel Graystone]]'s efforts to resurrect his daughter in an artificial body -- something that presumably would become a very, very controversial idea if applied on a large scale. Maybe that kind of controversy had something to do with the original departure of the Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol. Perhaps their resurrection system was outlawed on Kobol, leading to their exodus. The existence of the ancient probe in [[Torn]] supports the idea that resurrection technology may well have existed thousands of years ago; that episode really made the virus seem like a biological weapon, and the fact that it infected Cylons through the resurrection process may not have been accidental. Was it created to prevent the Thirteenth Tribe from ''leaving'' Earth to return to Kobol? (In that case, maybe what Ellen meant when she said "Everything is in place" was that some of the Thirteenth Tribe had figured out a way to circumvent the various defenses/mechanisms preventing them from rejoining the Twelve. {{unsigned|Argentla}}
:Hi Argentia. More people will hear about your thoughts in a place better built for it, so why not take your thoughts to [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=2307 the Battlestar Forum episode thread?] (That way, the talk page is left free for questions about the formatting or proper interpretation of what should be in this article itself.) Lots of people are there to talk about it! --22:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Cylon Homeworld ==

The revelations of this episode also raise another provocative question: IS there a Cylon homeworld (other than Earth, thousands of years ago)? At one point, RDM mentioned that we would probably never seen the Cylon homeworld, because he felt it would be creatively problematic, but now I wonder if it exists at all. The Colonials have always assumed there was one, somewhere behind the Armistice Line, but my recollection is that all the dialogue referring to it comes from human characters (Baltar, Gaeta, Kara). In [[Downloaded]], both Six and Boomer are resurrected on Caprica, not elsewhere.

After the Armistice, did the Cylons just wander in space the same way the Fleet is, occasionally taking resources from the planets they encountered (just as ''Galactica'' has), but not actually settling anywhere specific? Maybe their original motivation in attacking the Colonies -- the original Plan alluded to in the early seasons' credits -- was ''Lebensraum'', claiming the territory of the Colonies for their own expansion. (That would explain why they were going to so much trouble to clean up Caprica (and presumably the other Colonies, even if we never see it for budgetary reasons) even after nuking it.)

Has any Cylon character explicitly confirmed the existence of a Cylon homeworld? Three's comments in this episode about wandering in space make it seem like she doesn't have a home to return to; Cavill's belligerence might make it impossible for her to return to the Cylon homeworld if there were one, but if that were the case, wouldn't she say so?

Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

2009-01-18T22:18:58Z

Hufnmouth: /* Buried Centurion Head */

{{newsection link}}

== Half-Season ==

Are we sure that Sometimes a Great Notion will be aired before the midseason break? I've seen the first half-season referred to as consisting of ten episodes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
: It's not on the SFC schedule, so I've removed it. Someone must've been overzealous in their addition of the airdates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Writers ==

In the podcast for Revelations, RDM states that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson will be writing this episode. I though I should bring it up here rather than add it to the article as I'm a relatively new member here, and am still unfamiliar with the editing process.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 23:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: That's all right, Pentagonal. Feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] take it upon yourself to add it, as long as it's [[BW:CJ|cited]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, but it wasn't so much that I was apprehensive to edit the page, but more that i'm not quite sure how. I really haven't taken the time to learn how to use the editing software, (which is something I'm planning on doing shortly) so i thought it best to bring it up here and have someone willing and able add it.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I added it. You can see the difference [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Sometimes_a_Great_Notion&diff=165728&oldid=164802 here]. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Many thanks.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Title ==

''The title of the episode comes from the blues song "Goodnight, Irene," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown."'' Is this a fact? There's no citation. It's also the title of a song by John Mellencamp. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 17:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:And, though I don't know if it has to do with anything, the first line of the Mellencamp song, "Never give an inch," is a reference to ''Sometimes a Great Notion'', a novel by Ken Kesey. [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Buried Centurion Head ==

Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge.[[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]]
::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Guest stars==

As an avid credit watcher I thought I'd point out that as of the very beginning of season 4 Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, Tahmoh Penikett, Michael Trucco, Alessandro Juliani and Kandyse McClure have all been credited as starring cast members. I've removed them from the guest star section for this episode accordingly.--[[User:Opark 77|Opark 77]] 11:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Just need a second verification and we should edit [[Season 4 (2008)]] as well. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Uh, if you're an avid credit watcher, as you say, then you should know that those name (give or takes a few) have been like that since "33". And it's not just this show that has this sort of thing. Nor, is it a recent trend; I can date the post star/pre-guest star credit thing back to a show from 1989 and few since. That's always been a thorn in trying to figure that out. I will say that if they're stars, then they're names wouldn't come and go based on an episode-by-episode basis like that seeing as how all the ones in the main credits remain regardless (with the exception of Katee's, but that was only to sell the whole "Kara is dead" thing). Until someone can convince me otherwise, I say they're co-stars, who just get upfront credits for some sort of contractual reason. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::As I understand it, '''Mars''', it's really nothing more than a monetary issue. The main cast, whose names are credited every week during the main opening credits sequence, are paid regardless of whether or not they actually shoot any scenes for the episode. A recurring or supporting character would not be credited if they weren't used in a particular episode, so they wouldn't have to be paid, but they would be credited before guest characters. A good example of this outside of BSG would be Teryl Rothery ("Dr. Fraiser") on Stargate SG-1. --[[User:Antarctic Fox|Antarctic Fox]] 17:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Resurrection and the split of the 13th Tribe ==

The dialogue in this episode about the "Final Five"'s previous lives on Earth reminded me of what Virtual said to Baltar n [[Fragged]], about how anyone who was killed on Kobol was dead forever. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway bit of Virtual Six's usual religious zealotry, but after Ellen Tigh's remark in Tigh's vision/flashback about everything being "in place" for their rebirth after the holocaust, I'm no longer so sure.

So, here's a bit of speculation. We know from the advance buzz on ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' that the origins of the Colonies' Cylons had to do with [[Daniel Graystone]]'s efforts to resurrect his daughter in an artificial body -- something that presumably would become a very, very controversial idea if applied on a large scale. Maybe that kind of controversy had something to do with the original departure of the Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol. Perhaps their resurrection system was outlawed on Kobol, leading to their exodus. The existence of the ancient probe in [[Torn]] supports the idea that resurrection technology may well have existed thousands of years ago; that episode really made the virus seem like a biological weapon, and the fact that it infected Cylons through the resurrection process may not have been accidental. Was it created to prevent the Thirteenth Tribe from ''leaving'' Earth to return to Kobol? (In that case, maybe what Ellen meant when she said "Everything is in place" was that some of the Thirteenth Tribe had figured out a way to circumvent the various defenses/mechanisms preventing them from rejoining the Twelve. {{unsigned|Argentla}}

Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

2009-01-18T21:47:20Z

Hufnmouth: /* Buried Centurion Head */

Talk:The Road Less Traveled/Archive 1

2008-05-07T20:05:29Z

Hufnmouth: /* Summary */

{{newsection link}}

==Spelling of Travel(l)ed==
Both NBC Universal Media Village and NBC Universal Photobank call the episode "Traveled", not "Travelled". And it's an American show, after all. -- [[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 20:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:While American English has a clear tendency to not double such consonants, it isn't an unknown variation of the word. Both are used. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
::Now SciFi.com says "Traveled", too. -- [[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 00:44, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

== Summary ==

Anyone working on it? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:26, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
:Nope. I'm kinda busy with programming atm. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
:: I guess if I get around to it, I'll whip something up. Other than that, feel free to enter the fray, guys! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
This is kind of sparse. Also, the main page for the English wiki needs to be updated. It says this episode is the next new one to air when that is not true. --[[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] 00:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
: I may start working on it today, of course... other people are more than welcome to join in. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 14:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
: OK, I roughed it in... I must be feeling very sarcastic today. Feel free to edit it ruthlessly. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
::I've intentionally avoided jumping into the past summaries as I have in the past to let someone else enjoy making them. But I'll dive in with a formalized one later tonight. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
:::I've cleaned up the POV stuff, which - while certainly funny to a certain extent - is really out of place. But it can still be improved and some things need to be worded better. But it's better than nothing :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:55, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Hulu has the episode on line ([http://www.hulu.com/watch/18917/battlestar-galactica-the-road-less-traveled]). I'm a max noob; how does it get linked to here? --[[User: hufnmouth|hufnmouth]]

== Analysis ==

'Despite his tirade directed towards Adama in "Escape Velocity", Tyrol's love for Cally is what calms him down once he looks upon a photo of him and Cally. In spite of her shortcomings, his memories and feelings of Cally are what help ground Tyrol's mindset again.' - I'd have taken it as he sees his son and realises he'd grow up without a mother or farther if chief committed suicide. Throughout the rest of the episode he debates his feelings for cally.

Even so, do things like this really need to be in analysis? Its such a minor point. --[[User:Millionsknives|Millionsknives]] 19:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
:I'd have to agree that it's pretty debatable what's going on in his head there. I'd yank it, pending any insight the podcast may eventually shed. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:00, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk:The Road Less Traveled/Archive 1

2008-05-06T04:02:57Z

Hufnmouth: /* Summary */

Talk:The Road Less Traveled/Archive 1

2008-05-06T04:01:45Z

Hufnmouth: /* Summary */

Talk:Razor/Archive2

2007-11-17T03:24:54Z

Hufnmouth: /* Razor content */

We'll need to retitle this article when we get a proper title that's not ambigous as "Battlestar Galactica (DVD movie)". The article will also need to become an episode summary as well. Maybe it may be better to rename this as "Battlestar Galactica (2007 DVD movie)" to avoid confusion with the [[Miniseries]] and other DVD releases. -- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:02, 17 April 2007 (CDT) ([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contribs]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|WonderNumbers]])

:I brought it in line with the standard episode guide format for now. Adding the year number is a good idea for now, but later we'll probably have a real name --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:06, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
::I agree. Battlestar Galactica (2007 DVD movie) would be good if we don't get an official title. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:09, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Right. I'll rename it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:56, 17 April 2007 (CDT)([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contribs]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|WonderNumbers]])

== Numbering and prev/next ==
How are we gonna number this one? [[4.00]] currently redirects here, but if that's the number we're going with, it should be [[400]] (in line with [[101]] through [[320]]). Or are we gonna pull another webisode and not number it at all? Also, the webisodes are missing from the episode guides' Prev/Next sequence. Is this one gonna be included? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:09, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
:400 is possible. But do we need to determine that right now? We could as well wait until some information about it is known. Agree though, that the webisodes should be in the sequence. I'll see to that... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:11, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
::We can wait, just wanted to point out we'll want a number at some point. Thanks for the sequence thingy, I could've fixed it myself but wondered whether they were left out intentionally (because there's no critical story in them, apart from Nora's death which is recapped in [[Occupation]]).--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:33, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

Since Joe made 4.01 redirect here, the episode data needs to be changed to 4.01 too. And the rest of the episodes after it, to off course (well, one for now). For what it's worth the casting sides (see below), call it 4.01 and 4.02. That's probably correct, since it's TWO episodes that belong together - possibly shown as one movie. So "He That Believeth In Me" would be 4.03 --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:04, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
: That's what I've figured, given what I've read thus far. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:10, 11 June 2007 (CDT)

== "Razor" ==

<s>I recently noticed [[Razor]] being created as a redirect to this page. Is "Razor" this movie's working title? Do we have a source for that?</s> [http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=battlestar#sr Never mind]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 08:45, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

If the official name is Razor, though, this page should be renamed to "Razor". Could someone on Sci Fi Forums (or somewhere else) ask for confirmation on the Razor and HTBIM titles? I've asked on [[BW:OC]], but that page isn't viewed very much. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:09, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

:Well, the [http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=41709&type=0 press release confirming the last season] drops the "Razor" title. Can we construe this as confirmation, or at least enough to justify a move? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 14:10, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

::Given that there remains no official title, the working title redirect is just fine for the wiki's needs, and keeps it more searchable that our title here. It is not likely we'll get an official title (like the episodes) until they are officially announced. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:45, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

:::Does Sci-FI Wire not count as an official source? I would think a press release from the network would be official enough to warrant the article's name change. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 16:27, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

::::It's the ''writers'' that ultimately choose the name. The episode "[[Home]]" became a two-parter at the last minute. Season 3 had a sudden change for its very first episodes. Sci Fi's own "official web site" lists ship information with numerous errors. Heck, the press release for the series end was filled with heinous errors. It is best to wait and not jump ahead. Again....we already have a redirect for any searches on the term of "Razor", so we're covered. We reverse the redirect once we see the name on the TV schedule. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:16, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

According to [[http://www.darkhorizons.com/news07/070608j.php this]] Ron Moore confirmed the title at the LA Q&A event. It's second hand, but straight from the head honcho. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:51, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

: Since RDM confirmed it, it's good, until it gets changed. Remember episode titles can change right up until the episode airs. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 18:47, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

== Sequence numbers ==

[http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=battlestar&p=1#sr This source] cites 401 and 402 as the sequence numbers for "Razor", and 403 for "[[He That Believath In Me]]". Are we gonna follow this scheme? Ask Brad? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:11, 21 May 2007 (CDT)
:We could just hold off on episode numbers until something definite is known. For know we can just use episode names, and add the numbers later. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:22, 21 May 2007 (CDT)
::Obviously, since this is the last season, we don't need any official numbering policy and can continue to implement episode numbering on an ad-hoc basis. The trouble is where official resources disagree (the third season podcasts were consistantly numbered as if "Occupation/Precipice" were two episodes, while on said podcasts, RDM consistantly referred to them as if "Occupation/Precipice" were a single episode). My personal opinion is that it makes the most sense to label each hour of the season with its own production code, and to give mid-season ancillary material such as "The Resistance" and "Razor" the X.00 designation. That being said, we should obviously defer to the production staff ''if they follow a consistant practice''. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:49, 5 June 2007 (CDT)
:::I agree. Let's wait for the Season 4 podcasts to hear what number RDM gives them. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:30, 5 June 2007 (CDT)

== Casting sheets (SPOILERS!) ==

Get [http://rapidshare.com/files/30443459/Kendra_7pgs.pdf.html this] and [http://rapidshare.com/files/30443433/Young_Adama_4pgs.pdf.html this]

1.) Flashbacks to the Cylon attack from ''Pegasus'''s point of view. It counterpoints Adama by showing how Cain reacted to the news. The new character, Kendra Shaw, is shellshocked at first, but quickly pulls herself together. Scenes showing the destroyed Colonial Fleet.

After ''Pegasus'' joins the Fleet, Lee Adama finds himself reviewing herself. Similar to Starbuck she has some discipline problems and got busted by Fisk and Garner. Since he doesn't give a damn about those two and needs someone from ''Pegasus'' to work with him, he promoted her to be his XO.

2.) Flashback to the first Cylon War with a young William Adama flying a Viper sortie. Helena Cain is a child and living through an attack on her home colony of Tauron. The battlestar ''Columbia'' is destroyed (this must be the predecessor of the one destroyed in the second war). In the course of the fight Adama is shot down on some planet and somehow finds a lab where the Cylons experimented on humans. He sees on the of new basestars. This is directly before the Armistice, which is declared before he can do something about it.

All very interesting, but hard to source. And still subject to change. It tracks with everything else known though.

Also according to IMDB [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1089338/ this] is the actress to play Kendra Shaw. And I know that this isn't entirely reliable. Looks hot though :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:21, 8 June 2007 (CDT)
:The trailer preview that aired yesterday confirms that this is, indeed, the actress, or at least someone who looks A LOT like her. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:53, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

== Director ==

Where has it been cited that Félix Enríquez Alcalá is going to direct? There's no mention of this within the body of the article. Keep in mind that I haven't listened to the audiofile, and the two ''TV Week'' links appear to be dead. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:59, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

== SciFy Portal ==

http://www.syfyportal.com/news423777.html

According to this Cain and Gina were lovers. In her childhood Cain's family were attacked by Cylons (which fits perfectly with the script excerpt above) and she had to make a decision to save herself or her sister. And the TOS Centurions will be seen extensively in full CGI glory.

The article says that the source is anonymous though. Still, it sounds very plausible. Include or not? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

== Minisodes/Webisodes ==

How do we deal with those webisodes that will air in October? We have an own article for "The Resistance", but since the "Razor" ones are basically cut material that will be included in the DVD version, we might want to put them into the normal "Razor" article. When they air we can have a separate section, and later include them into the summary (once the DVD is out). They could be marked with a '*' for example to note their webisode status. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:19, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
: That seems a sensible approach. Also, we may want to create [[Razor webisodes]] (and articles of the same caliber) as a redirect to the "Razor" article, so as to avoid creating repetitious content. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

== Shaw's patch ==

I'm sure some of us noticed this already, but the patch is a orange yellow color. I wonder if she's a survivor from another battlestar or ship entirely. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 18:16, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
:Yeah, it seems that she comes from another ship or ground installation. There is a scene in one of the trailers where Gina welcomes her aboard. And the first trailer shows her stepping off a Raptor carrying luggage. Somehow, I get the feeling that that doesn't happen after the attack. Maybe she's from the shipyards and supposed to do some work. The article also identified Gina as systems analyst by the way. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:32, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
::I remember that, so it wouldn't be surprising if she's from another ship or installation. On Gina, I'm also interested in the patch on Gina's uniform as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 18:45, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
:::Yeah, but from the low-res shots you can't see anything. There are surely high-res versions for the press, but you know that NBC cracked down on those, so the fan sites probably won't show them. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:00, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
::::There being more stealthy about it now. Of course, I tried to get to bsgmedia.org and, surprise, the whole site was taken down. Coincidentally, I've sent off a query to BSGMedia.org's domain owner to see what's up with the site. Hopefully, someone will have the higher res versions somewhere at least... sigh... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 19:45, 21 September 2007 (CDT)
:::::Fanwankery, but perhaps she is from the Scorpion Shipyards? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:55, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
::::::Why would such a young and high-ranking officer be stationed on shipyards? And why would it be necessary for her to sleep aboard Pegasus just because some systems are overhauled? --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 07:00, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
:::::::She isn't high-ranking. At that time she's just a lieutenant. And what does age and rank possibly have to do with where one is stationed? You are right about the sleeping part, so maybe she gets re-assigned and still has her old uniform. We'll see... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:14, 22 September 2007 (CDT)
::::::::I just checked the article on the SFS and realized that the structure/purpose is more military and less civilian than I thought. Sorry. -- [[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 15:11, 22 September 2007 (CDT)

Additionally, I tried to get on bsgmedia.org... but the site seems to have been taken down. Or is simply unavailable. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 18:19, 21 September 2007 (CDT)

I just visited bsgmedia.org ... it may have been down, but it seems to be back up --[[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 01:00, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
: Yeah, but they no longer have the promotional pictures. They've been taken down apparently. All that's left are some low-quality screencaps. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 01:09, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

[http://www.bsg.cz/galerie/promos/401.2/hi_ep401-2_014.jpg High res picture].
It says "Ministry of Defense" and "...bol HQ". And [http://www.bsg.cz/galerie/promos/401.2/hi_ep401-2_011.jpg here] you see that the whole thing says "Kobol HQ". Weird. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:07, 6 October 2007 (CDT)

==Plot thickens for the UK airdate==
Dear Matt

Thank you for your email regarding Battlestar Galactica.

I can confirm that we do not have the screening rights to the movie 'Razor' however, I can confirm that Sky One has acquired the rights to season 4 of Battlestar Galactica however our license date is not until after 31/12/07.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us at Sky.

Kind regards

<removed>
Viewer Relations

Mmm so it would seem that the rumors might be holding true that Virgin1 snagged the rights to the Razor telemovie. Luckily Virgin1 is available on Sky so BSG fans arent going to lose out. Seems crazy for Virgin Media to pay for the rights to Razor as its basicly going to be free advertising for Sky viewers though. dvd.co.uk still reports it as airing on the 5th december too. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:57, 2 October 2007 (CDT)
:What channel (on Sky) is Vigin 1 on? I haven't noticed it when I've been flicking through :-(. I'm stuck as to whether I should wait for the DVD release personally, it will probably be a much more enjoyable experience watching it uncut. [[User:Matthew|Matthew]] 13:15, 5 October 2007 (CDT)
::The extended version will be better and will include the flashback scenes showing in thge US atm. Its still speculation that razor might be on virgin, I have not recieved a reply from them about it. Its on Sky 153 btw --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:00, 9 October 2007 (CDT)

==Advanced screenings==

http://www.battlestarevent.com

Specially-selected cities will be showing Razor on the big screen 12 days early(November 12th). Registration begins today.--[[User:Veepz|Veepz]] 16:03, 26 October 2007 (CDT)
: They have a promo video on scifi.com [http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=171267 here]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 23:12, 26 October 2007 (CDT)

== Razor content ==

With the spoiler policy and all that, is it OK to:
* add a summary for [[Razor]];
* create [[Battle of the Communications Relay]];
* create [[Guardians]];
* add information about the first hybrid to [[Hybrid]]?
Or do we want to stay away from littering the wiki with Razor spoilers until after the airing? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:37, 4 November 2007 (CST)
: Adding the content is fine, as so long as we put the appropriate spoiler tags in place. From what I'm reading so far from the bulletin boards and the like, it seems like the screener is spreading like wildfire. (Hopefully this doesn't harm any sales, since this would definitely kill any future releases.)
: As for the main Razor page, I was thinking that it would be best to do a subpage with the actual guide for now. Therefore I was thinking of something like [[Razor/Guide]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 14:43, 4 November 2007 (CST)

:There are warnings about spoilers in place, but I'd prefer to wait until the official airing for massive edits, which is why I only added/changed some general things so far. Doing the battle page would be ok, since that can easily be avoided.
:I don't think we need a page for the Guardians though. A subsection on the Centurion page would suffice IMO. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:46, 4 November 2007 (CST)
:: True, that's my preference as well, but realistically I think we should just go ahead and make subpages for the pages that need massive changes and do the "Razor" filled content there. Once that's done, we can roll everything into the main pages once "Razor" is aired. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 14:53, 4 November 2007 (CST)
:::That might cause some duplication, but is probably be the best idea. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:54, 4 November 2007 (CST)
::::Where entire sections are concerned (such as "The Harbinger of the Apocalypse" in [[The Destiny]], "The Guardians" in [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]] and the summary in [[Razor]]), subpages are probably the best course of action. Smaller additions (such as [[Lee Adama]], [[Scylla]]) could be done the {{tl|spoilli}} way. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:05, 4 November 2007 (CST)
:::::I just wanted to add a blurb about the word "Razor" and why it's such an interesting word. A 'Steppin' razor is a dangerous person. An individual that is not to be fooled with and is quick to take action. In the book Neuromancer, Molly was referred to being a Steppin Razor to give you an idea. I think this definition fits in not only with Cain but with the Pegasus ship as well. It survived so long by being hard and quick and lethal.

== Sharon ==

Could anyone tell whether or not Sharon was still pregnant in the scenes aboard ''Pegasus'' during "Razor"? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 10:59, 6 November 2007 (CST)
:Her belly can't actually be seen as far as I can tell. Cunning :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:06, 6 November 2007 (CST)
::Yes, it was well conceived shooting, in my view. I'd like to think it happened before "Downloaded", seeing as Sharon would probably refuse to help. Although, on the other hand, she didn't seem to happy to be there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 11:23, 6 November 2007 (CST)

== Canadian airdate ==

The Canadian airdate has been confirmed as November 24th [http://www.spacecast.com/tvschedule.aspx?date=11-24-2007 (source)], but I'm not sure where to put the information. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:41, 15 November 2007 (CST)

==Questions==
Why is the question: "Does Dualla take over as XO of Pegasus (Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II), because Kendra Shaw settles on New Caprica?" appear in this article when it is answered in this episode? {{unsigned|Tomglima}}
: Since the airing isn't until the 24th, this question will be there, simply because it's been there since before "Razor" was even aired. The "spoiler" version of this article is [[Razor/Episode Guide|here]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 23:02, 15 November 2007 (CST)
:See the spoiler pages for "Razor" and Kendra Shaw [[Razor/Episode Guide|here]] and [[Kendra Shaw/Razor|here]] for some more up to date info. Those pages will replace the standard articles when the movie has officially aired. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 03:07, 16 November 2007 (CST)

Daniel Novacek

2007-02-25T18:13:00Z

Hufnmouth: Humorous line in episode

{{Character Data
|photo= Season 3 - Promo - Hero - Novacek.jpg
|age= Unkown
|colony= Unkown
|birthname= Daniel Novacek
|callsign= Bulldog
|seen= Hero
|rank=Lieutenant, s.g.
|actor= [[Carl Lumbly]]
}}
Lieutenant '''Daniel "Bulldog" Novacek''' is a pilot who served under [[Admiral Adama]] aboard the battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]'' before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].

He was part of a disclosed mission led by Adama aboard the ''[[Valkyrie]]'', where he was to pilot a special craft, known as [[Stealthstar]], over the [[Armistice Line]]. Upon crossing, he was soon interdicted by an unknown contact and left in the crippled vessel, spinning out of control. With two more craft bearing down on him, Adama ordered Novacek destroyed so as to eliminate any evidence of their incursion into Cylon space. Instead of dying inside the doomed stealth ship, Novacek managed to eject a split second before the incoming missile detonated.

He was then taken prisoner by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and spent three years in their captivity. Some time after the occupation of [[New Caprica]], battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' detects three Raiders. Two Raiders are pursuing a third Raider, damaged by Cylon gunfire. Starbuck and Kat are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third. In CIC, Admiral Adama orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to Galactica, after hearing, from the Raider, a familiar human voice and callsign — Bulldog.
In the hangar bay, Adama and the party are surprised that a human has exited the Raider. A visibly weak Daniel Novacek salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.

Over a meal (noodles eaten with chopsticks) Adama asks Novacek how he escaped. In dry humor, he states "Well sir, it's like this. The enemy had me locked in a cell for three years. The accomodations were lousy, the service was slow. And, after a while, I felt the institution had nothing left to offer me, so I left." Next, he relates a story of plague on the basestar and escaping after killing a Number Three with a blow to the nose delivered through the cell bars.

Bulldog is debriefed by the President with Adama present, where they tell a (decidedly shaky) story of a mining facility too close to the Armistice Line to cover the true events.

Novacek later visits Saul Tigh in his quarters shortly after Adama talks with him. Tigh informs Novacek about Adama's past actions and in the process greatly angers him. Novacek later proceeds to "question" Adama.

Meanwhile, [[Kara Thrace]] reviews the gun camera film from their fight with the Cylon Raiders and realizes that the Cylons were deliberately missing their quarry, letting Bulldog get away. She goes to Saul Tigh with this information, who deduces that Bulldog was allowed there by the Cylons to bring harm to the admiral.

Tigh finds Novacek in the process of killing Adama and stops him, harshly berating him about how he had nearly given the Cylons what they wanted. A deeply ashamed Novacek then slumps against a wall in grief.

Later, Novacek is boarding a Raptor presumably to start a new life on a civilian ship. Before he departs, Admiral Adama (having forgiven him) presents a [[Uniforms (RDM)|Colonial uniform]] and in the process assures him he will always have a place as an officer on ''Galactica''.

([[Hero]]).

== Notes ==

* [[David Eick]]'s Video Blog entitled "Introducing Bulldog"<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref> revealed that after agreeing to the role, Carl Lumbly stated that he wanted to keep his dreadlocks, much to the bemusement of director [[Michael Rymer]].

* In early drafts Novacek's first name was Seamus. <ref name="podcast">{{cite rdm podcast| episode = Hero | act = 3 | id =seamus| timestamp = 00:32:06 | totalrunning = 00:47:05 }}.</ref>

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]