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Humanoid Cylon speculation

2007-03-27T04:33:34Z

Hentai Jeff: Removing Cally from low probability list and moving to eleminated list

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| This article is based on '''[[BW:CJ|plausible speculation]]''', which can violate [[BW:FANW|policies on fan-generated theories]] if analysis is taken too far.'''
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{{seealso|Characters eliminated from suspicion}}

The [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons']] transformation into [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid form]] introduces serious problems for the remnant of humanity known as [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to identify Cylon operative from human.

This article details [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad#Derived content|plausible speculation]] on central and supporting characters in ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]'' who, based on their behavior, motive, and background, could be a Cylon agent. As of the [[Rapture|second half of Season Three]], [[Cylon Models#Known Models|seven]] Humanoid Cylons have been revealed both to the population of the Fleet and to the audience. [[Final Five|Five]] Cylons remain unaccounted for.

==Needed Qualifiers for Speculation==

For a character to be logically considered a possible Humanoid Cylon, there are a few established parameters to meet:

* '''The suspect must not have any adult children or siblings.''' For purposes of this article, a pregnancy can be generally established as a disqualifier. With [[Sharon Agathon|one exception]], Humanoid Cylons have extreme difficulty with human sexual reproduction to the point of effective infertility.<ref>During a discussion of the reproductive intentions of Cylons in [[The Farm#Noteworthy Dialogue|The Farm]]:<br>
'''Starbuck''': So farms, that's great. What were they gonna do? Knock me up with some Cylon kid?<br>'''Sharon''': They were gonna try to. We haven't been successful so far.<br>'''Anders''': Supposedly they can't reproduce. You know biologically. So they have been trying every which way to produce offspring.</ref> If a character has adult, biological children, it automatically excludes them as being a Humanoid Cylon as the procreation of the child and the age of the child both violate the 2nd qualifier. Although Humanoid Cylons have, eventually, proven to be capable of reproduction with humans, the birth of the hybrid child [[Hera]] was considered such a seminal event by the Cylons that it seems safe to conclude that no Cylon ever had a child before that point.
* '''The suspect must not have a verifiable family history''' (other than marriage). A parent would have known their child from birth (unless otherwise specified), and Cylons are not copies of preexisting humans. This is an expansion of the "confirmed character history" point below.
* '''The suspect must not have been exposed to the [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|lymphocytic encephalitis virus]].''' The virus is lethal to Cylons (although [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] received special immunity due to her pregnancy). Therefore, any member of the boarding party in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" (excluding Athena) cannot be a Cylon. This qualifier is absolute since, while Dr. [[Cottle]] was preparing a vaccine, it was never given to the incarcerated Cylons in that episode. Else, the [[Battle of NCD2539]] would have been pointless; the Cylons had to remain infected for the mission objective. No aired information supports a notion that a "supply of vaccine" or Athena's own immunity (when she downloaded to a baseship in "[[Rapture]]") was obtained or transferred to the Cylons.
* '''The suspect does not have a reliable history''' involving direct association (i.e. working or personal relationship) with a confirmed human character prior to the [[Cylon War]].

==Humanoid Cylons were never genuine humans==

According to [[Ron D. Moore]], the twelve humanoid models are based on human behavior and personality archetypes distilled into twelve varieties. '''Cylon agents are NOT copies or clones of any pre-existing humans, living or dead'''<ref>In an October 24th, 2005 [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml podcast interview] Ron Moore stated, "The idea is not there was one like an original human model that they were copied from. The idea was that these were...these models of Cylon were developed out of their own study of us. The Cylons on some level looked at humanity and said, 'Well, you know what, there's really only twelve of you...and these are the twelve.' And then if you look at them, they kind of represent different archetypes of what humanity is."</ref>.

==Death==

As only a humanoid Cylon can "return" from the dead, any human character that dies is instantly disqualified from suspicion. If the character returns in a manner other than being seen in a "flashback" scene or episode, then it is probable that the character is a Cylon. See the article, "[[Characters eliminated from suspicion]]", for more information.

==Suspected Cylon infiltrators==

===Moderate probability of being a Cylon===

====Kara "Starbuck" Thrace====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: Yes (alluded to in "[[The Farm]]" by [[Simon]])
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes, with qualifier (the Adama family, Karl Agathon)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] was apparently disproved as being a Cylon: [[Simon]] wanted to use Starbuck's egg cells in Cylon/human hybrid experiments ([[The Farm]]). It would be illogical to take genetic material from another Cylon agent (unless Simon is [[Final five|unaware]] that Thrace is another Cylon agent).

Thrace's association with [[Zak Adama]] occurred over two years prior to the Cylon attack ([[Miniseries]]). Helo notes that he and Thrace have known each other for a "long time" but the actual length of their friendship isn't defined ([[Scattered]]).

[[Image:Valley of Darkness-Starbuck Helo.jpg|right|thumb|Thrace's painting ([[Valley of Darkness]])]]
[[Image:S3-eyeofjupiter.jpg|left|thumb|The symbol in the Temple of Five ([[The Eye of Jupiter]])]]
A strange connection between Thrace, the Cylons, or the ancient Thirteenth Tribe may exist based on the [[Temple of Five]]. A significant similarity exists between a symbol painted by Thrace that's found in her apartment in "[[Valley of Darkness]]" and the symbol in the Temple of Five, found over a year later. When informed of the similarity between her painting and the temple symbol by Helo, Thrace mentions that the symbol was something that she has drawn since childhood almost subconsciously some times.

The events of the second half of season 3, particularly rumors of Thrace's demise or destiny in the episode "[[Maelstrom]]", and the revelation of her drawing the Eye of Jupiter mandala subconsciously return this character's suspicion from "none" to "moderate." Supporting this tenuous level of suspicion is the fact that the [[Final five|five missing Cylons]] are not known to the seven revealed agents, leaving characters with strong levels of direct Cylon interaction (Thrace and Gaius Baltar, particularly) with strange associations that cannot be fully defined, particularly her interactions with the [[Leoben Conoy]] model and his prophetic indications of Thrace's destiny ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

Though clearly meant as a joke, [[Katee Sackhoff]] claims in the Season Three gag reel <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6307683077762423268&q|title=Battlestar Galactica: Season Three Gag Reel|date=|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=Google Video|language=English}}</ref> that Starbuck is a Cylon and that she dies. Given the rumors surrounding the character and the confirmation that a major cast member will be departing after the episode "[[Maelstrom]]" <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2007/01/major_cast_member_to_depart.shtml|title=GateWorld - Battlestar Galatica News: Major cast membet to depart|date=|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=English}}</ref>, there may be more truth to Sackhoff's claim than there seems.

Before her apparent death in [[Maelstrom]], she had a hallucination or vision of a being that looks like Leoben Conoy but suggests that he isn't, along with a number of other visions, including one of a raider.

Kara Thrace appeared in a Viper in [[Crossroads, Part II]], raising the question of how (or if) she survived the events in [[Maelstrom]].

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====Gaius Baltar====
{{seealso|Baltar as Cylon speculation}}
* Known siblings or adult children: None
* Known family members: None
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifying character: Unknown (described as a close personal friend of [[Richard Adar|President Adar]])
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

[[Gaius Baltar]]'s odds of being a Cylon are not good, but not impossible either. The miniseries establishes him as a prominent public figure for years. Cylons talking amongst themselves in "[[Downloaded]]" continually referred to Baltar as a human. In "[[Torn]]" [[Caprica-Six]] mentions that she was (and possibly still is) considering to have a child with Baltar, which would appear impossible if he was a Cylon. However, when learning of the Cylon's "[[projection]]" abilities in "[[Torn]]" and how they may be related to his vision of Number Six, Baltar himself begins to question whether or not he is a Cylon.

Recent information from cast members that portray Cylons confirmed a season 3 storyline that indicates that the revealed agents do not know the identity of the five remaining Cylon agents. This storyline is introduced in the episode, "[[Torn]]."

Under extreme psychological duress Baltar confesses to President Roslin and Admiral Adama that he is '''not''' a Cylon, however the veracity of his confession is questionable ([[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]).

====Anastasia "Dee" Dualla====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No<ref>While Dualla has mentioned her father in the episode, "[[Final Cut]]," he has not been seen on-screen. The [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]] character of [[Darrin Dualla]] is not canonical with this qualification.</ref>
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifying character: Unknown
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

[[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] seems to have a fairly well developed backstory regarding her past; she is a Sagittaron ([[Bastille Day]]), her father disapproved of her joining the military ([[Final Cut]]), but upon closer inspection none of this can be confirmed by a third party: the only source of information about Dualla's past in the series has been Dualla herself. Dualla's position in charge of ''Galactica's'' communications puts her in an ideal position for subversion. In "[[Valley of Darkness]]", Dualla is found in the enlisted head, having suffered a blow to the head from Cylon Centurions that passed through, the only survivor in the compartment. Cylon agents have often demonstrated the ability to physically damage themselves for a cause, including self-destruction<ref>There are numerous instances in the series, including [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii's]] attack from a copy of Number Six to give plausibilty for [[Helo]], and a suicide-bombing by a [[Number Five]].</ref>. Dualla could have feigned injury to avoid suspicion. Dualla's relationships with members of both government and military command ([[Billy Keikeya]] and [[Lee Adama]]) increase her involvement with secrets in the Fleet. Dualla's contraction of Mellorak infection in "[[The Woman King]]" would seem to decrease the possibility of her being a Cylon, as the hybrid Hera's blood seemed to have disease (cancer) resistance. However, Hera has herself been sick before and during the episode, and Cylons are also subject to infectious diseases ([[Torn]]).

====Felix Gaeta====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifying character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

As tactical officer, [[Felix Gaeta]], being technically minded, is initially fond of [[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar's work]]. He admitted to ignoring the [[Cylon transponder|Cylon device]] found below the [[DRADIS]] console in the [[Miniseries]], believing it to be part of the new [[Galactica Museum|museum]]. Gaeta neglects an update to [[emergency jump coordinates]] to the Fleet ([[Scattered]]), and proposes creating a [[Computers|computer]] network to fix the matter, leaving the ship vulnerable (and compromised twice).

Gaeta's recent behavioral changes from the stress of working at evading the Cylons shows by "[[Final Cut]]" as Gaeta is shown in his interview drunk, smoking, and wearing a new tattoo. By the following episode, "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", Gaeta angrily snaps at Colonel Tigh for giving a difficult order, causing surprise throughout [[CIC]] as Gaeta is normally a calm, reserved officer even under the worst of conditions. Contrast this behavior with "Boomer" Valerii, who still appeared quite alert after 5 continuous days of combat status. Note the following dialogue from the first regular series episode, "[[33]]":

::'''[[Lee Adama|Apollo]]''': Hey, how about you, Boomer? [[Cottle|Doc]] tells me you're holding up better than anybody in the squadron.
::'''Boomer''': I'm tired, like everybody else.
::'''Apollo''': You never seem it.
::'''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]''': 'Cause she's a Cylon.
::'''Boomer''': You're just gonna make me come over there and kick your ass, aren't you?

While even Cylon agents develop severe behavioral and physiological issues after extended work and abuse ([[Number Six#Gina|Pegasus]]), Cylon agents appear to be more resilient than humans, which may limit the likelihood of Gaeta's possible Cylon connection. On the other hand, if he were a Cylon, Gaeta's human personality may have finally been overtaxed by that time, suggesting that an actual human might have snapped earlier in their exodus in contrast.
Boomer, however, was unaware of her Cylon nature and thus would not have hidden her enhanced physique. An aware infiltrator would presumably feign more ordinary levels of endurance.

The seven known Humanoid Cylons appear to have integrated human agents into the Colonies no earlier than 2 years before the events of the Miniseries. No information is available on dates of infiltration by the [[Final Five]], whose activities are unknown to the seven. Gaeta has served with Commander Adama for three years ([[Miniseries]]). Saul Tigh confirms that he has worked with Gaeta for 4 years ([[Collaborators]]).

Gaeta chose to stay with Baltar's puppet administrator on New Caprica to feed inside information to the resistance, which Galen Tyrol confirms ("[[Occupation]]", "[[Precipice]]", "[[Collaborators]]"). Since humanoid Cylons are not clones of actual humans, the likelihood of Gaeta as a Cylon agent would depend on the start of [[Final Five]]'s infiltration into Colonial society.

====Diana Seelix====
* Known siblings or adult children: None
* Known family members: None
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifying character: Unknown
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

[[Diana Seelix]]'s odds of being a Cylon were, in retrospect, always somewhat moderate. The only circumstantial disqualifier would be that there were probably many opportunities for her to aid the Cylon cause that she didn't take, particularly when she fought in the resistance under [[Galen Tyrol]]. However, the fact that she took up arms is interesting considering that she stated on [[Kobol]] that she hadn't used a gun "since basic" ([[Fragged]]). Finally, in "[[A Day in the Life]]", Seelix was in a position where she conceivably could have caused the inner airlock doors to close with Galen and [[Cally Tyrol]] inside. Cinematically, extra attention was given to her relatively indecipherable operation of the controls in the airlocks's observation room.

===Low probability of being a Cylon===

====Romo Lampkin====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: Parents described as "missing"
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifying character: Allegedly ([[Joseph Adama]])
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low

Defense attorney [[Romo Lampkin]] claims to have been a student of [[Joseph Adama]]'s, but this claim cannot be independently verified. His desire to be the attorney for [[Gaius Baltar]] is unexplained.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Kara Thrace/Archive 1

2007-03-21T10:49:48Z

Hentai Jeff: /* '''Kara Thrace DEAD?''' */

As far as you actually see in the episode 'The Farm' there is only one new abdominal scar on Starbuck. This would suggest that only one of her ovaries has been removed, not two. The podcast may have more precise information, however.

:The phrase "[[CAG]] Second in Command" is a kind of awkward consturction. Can anybody think of a better way to describe her role? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 21:41, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

:: I don't believe that she actually has a title. She's an instructor and Viper pilot... and a crack shot with a sniper rifle. (How she got ''that'' talent is likely a subject of interest...) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:18, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

::: I agree on all counts. The thing is that we know she's understood to be in charge whenever Apollo is indisposed, but CAG Second in Command just doesn't sound quite right. I just don't know what would sound better [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:27, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

::::Senior pilot after Capt. Lee Adama? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Vice-CAG? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 15:45, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:::::: Military wise, she would be the Air Group Executive Officer were she second in command of the pilots. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:34, 18 January 2006 (EST)

==Verb Tense for Zak Stuff==
I reviewed the standards and conventions page, and it seems like the Zak Adama stuff really deserved the past tense since it occured "prior to the Mini-Series". The example in the second paragraph references Zak's funeral, which seems to be a pretty fitting example to apply here. So does all the pre-mini-series go to past tense, or are we going to 100% present tense (in which case we'd probably need to change the standards and conventions page). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:28, 18 January 2006 (EST)

: We can change the standards if we want (I mean--''we''wrote tham, after all), but I think it makes sense... As I was editing that, I was already getting confused about tenses and such, and I only really touched the one paragraph. Joemc72 and I already sorted it out on [[User talk:Day#Past vs Present tense|my Talk page]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:31, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:: I went ahead and reverted it back. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:32, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::SV is correct. Events from the miniseries on are present tense unless confusing. Flashbacks of events prior to miniseries and regular series should be worked as past tense. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)

==Paging Dr. Freud==

In the miniseries, Thrace doesn't tell Adama she doesn't ''have'' a big enough dipstick for his job, but that ''she's'' not a big enough dipstick. It's one line, but this is an unintentionally funny rendering of the quote... if you consider all the folks who were against Starbuck being a girl... [[User:Below|Below]] 16:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)
:Thrace has authority issues when crossed, yes. Not as cavalier about it as the original Starbuck, but then, this is a darker world. When compelled to, however, Thrace can obviously manage the work, even excel. She's still second CAG, now that Adama has returned to that status, and can effectively lead an attack as CAGs do, title or no. Thrace does have the "dipstick"; but she HATES having to deal with mentalities like Tigh. But she hates being out of the pilot's seat more, which gives her a greater sense of control than anything. I'd have Thrace plan any attack, anytime. And, in keeping with the dipstick metaphor, you can always expect her to be on top in almost anything she does. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:08, 3 February 2006 (EST)
Grin. I was thinking that an additional dimension to her authority issues was seen in the last few episodes. I think it would be interesting to integrate into this article if possible, but tonight's episode might have some more to say first. We know she had an abusive mother who served in the military, and identifies with her father. The Admiral is a positive father figure to her, but she's disgusted by Tigh, especially his drinking. (Was alcohol her mother's personal tinderbox?)
Enter Cain. On the one hand, Cain identifies with Thrace and gives her positive reinforcement: eg Do you always get what you want, I usually do. In my viewing, Sackhoff plays it as being both nervous and touched by Cain's approval. (Her mother had said she'd never account to anything: here's a much higher ranking woman claiming that she's capable of greatness.) Pretty clear that Cain wants to mentor Thrace, and sees a "younger self" in the pilot. At the same time, it's not a stretch to parallel the violent, volatile Cain with Thrace's absent, abusive mother. (Michelle Forbes would be a really interesting Medea.)
So Kara is being asked to choose between father figure Adama and mother figure Cain, and shooting Cain may feel like a kind of matricide.
Usually when TV shows or movies set up a young character against "two parents," one good, one bad, it's a young man torn between two fathers or father figures (witness "A Bronx Tale," "Platoon," "Star Wars", many others), so it's interesting to see that dynamic with a young woman. One more reason I love watching this show. [[User:Below|Below]] 11:18, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:Oh yes; for the past few weeks I've been repeatedly asking on the official site's RDM blog thread if they ''intentionally'' wrote it that Starbuck was won over by Cain because it was like her mother giving her the recognition that she never got. Of course, I ask a lot of things there....(I was annoyed when in his recent blog update yesterday A) people sometimes ask questions he's already answered many months ago (like, "Where is Boxey" and "Why don't we see the engine room?"), so B) he didn't realize this (I don't blame him, he's got a lot of work to do) so he wasted a blog entry answering questions that were already answered....except one, btw; apparently, the Presidential election is coming up soon. Probably not by the season 2 finale, obviously, but I got the impression he's playing around with script stuff for it now, and who knows? It might be the season 3 cliffhanger...or at most the season 3 finale. This, of course, would prove that they have indeed jumped several months ahead (once again, how could 2 months pass during Flight of the Phoenix?...but I digress....). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:46, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:: How, you ask? Easily. See, all that we saw on the show was actually in ''fast forward''... See, for that month, Bill had decided that everyone was to do everything at ''one sixth'' of normal speed... Thus, all that took two months. I thought that was obvious. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:01, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Scar==

What's with the "Kara is CAG in Scar" business? It looked like Apollo was still in charge to me. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:27, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Kara was responsible for briefings and I'm pretty sure I heard her referred to as CAG a few times in the episode. --Ltcrashdown 00:29, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Negative, Lieutenant. Kat said to Kara, "The CAG wants us spread out so we can cover more ground. It's right here in the briefings." I'm pretty sure that's accurate, anyway. Someone check me. Anyway, I thought it was clear she was talking about Lee. Now... Why was she doing all the briefings? I have no idea... I thought for a bit that maybe Lee was on ''Pegasus'' doing some kind of fleet-wide-CAG duties, but ''Peggie'' was off protecting the Fleet, so he'd probably not be jumping back and forth to almost have sex with Kara and all that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:56, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Because Lee has seniority over Kara (both are Captains, but he's been one longer, etc) he is in charge of their whole widescale operation. I mean, the guy can't be awake 24 horus a day and be everywhere at once. He needs to delegate duties now and again like this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:59, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Serial Number==
It's partially visible on the dogtag she gave Anders in "Downloaded": ?? 462753 - the two question marks would be letters, and I think the second one is a T, but Lucy Lawless's hand is covering the first. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:30, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I found that Galacticastation has a great screencape [http://www.galacticastation.com/Screencaps/S2/218/bscap414.htm here] of her ID tag. Can you guys tell what it is? It's not a T, it's....I can't tell if it says "ser" for "service number" (thus, not actually part of of the number), or "3er"...which seems odd as this is lowercase.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 19:03, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
::My first impression is that it is "ser" for serial or service number for the reason it is not together with the number. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:36, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

:Yeah, but Helo has a "PK" prefix to his serial number and Boomer had a "T" prefix. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:07, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

: Just a note, in "[[Collaborators]]" we see the full shot on her id tags during her conversation with Anders. It is prefixed by "ser" (sans quotes). If anyone can get a screencap to confirm, that'd be nice. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:32, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:It says "ser 462753". Screencap here: [http://galacticastation.com/Screencaps/s3/304/lowres/bscap381.htm] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:: Thought so. Thanks Serenity. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:45, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Major Pre-Season 3 Revision ==

As with the central characters [[William Adama]], [[Laura Roslin]], and [[Gaius Baltar]], I've heavily concised this article, removing extraneous episode information, to prepare it for season 3 information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:37, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:I suggest marking this article for cleanup and revision. Kara's biography is still a bit too long and quite messy - it's actually one big unclear stream of facts. I think it should be divided into a few parts, significant and dividing episodes being "Kobol's Last Gleaming", "Home", "Lay Down Your Burdens" and "Collaborators". -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:42, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:I agree to the cleanup and revision of this article, particularly the content added since season 3, as it is inconsistently written. (I've tried to clean it up, but a rewrite is in order for tone issues.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:29, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Socrata Thrace? ==

I've removed this reference because the reference was far too vague; the reference pertains to Thrace's mother, "Socrata".

: ''[[Socrata]] (revealed in TV Guide Magazine)''

If anyone can be specific as to the reference, including but not limited to page number, issue number, publication date, et al, please feel free to add it back in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 19:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Done and done. I refrained from the context, though, because what little there is I fear maybe spoilery. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 07:34, 11 December 2006 (CST)

=='''Kara Thrace DEAD?'''==
Now I'm disappointed in Battlestar Galactica. Starbuck was killed off Sunday night or at least we are led to believe she is dead. I like to think there is more to this than what was shown.--[[User:Avazina|Avazina]] 20:21, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:She is definitely dead, but that means nothing in fiction. You're probably right. Don't feel too disappointed; the classical heroes of Greek mythology suffered and died often to fulfill their missions. We're very used to our western heroes always riding off into the sunset to fight another day. Some day the sun will no longer rise. There was a bit in the episode that suggests that Kara is visiting the space between life and death; we'll see. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:47, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::Don't worry, she's merely ascended to another plane of existence. She'll be back next season as an Ancient. I mean, Final Five. Wow, deja vu Atlantis. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 12:49, 7 March 2007 (CST)
:::There's two reasons I'm not accepting her as dead. First, there was heavy foreshadowing in Rapture and Maelstrom hinting that she may be a Cylon. Second, she did not die the way the hero with an important destiny is supposed to. If she died in Resurrection Ship, Scar or The Passage I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons and died trying to escape I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons, decided she had no hope of escape or rescue and killed herself in a final act of defiance against Leoben I'd accept it. I won't accept this until the final five are revealed. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:19, 7 March 2007 (CST)
::::I stand by my idea that she'll be the first of the RDM series' [[Beings of Light]]. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 11:27, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::Didn't she say something like episodes 13 and 19 will be very important for her character? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 12:53, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::::::Eick said that 16 (Maelstrom) and 19 (Crossroads Pt. II) will have a lot of revelations on Lee and Kara's romance. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 14:50, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::::I think that Starbuck will be back, but not Katee Sackhoff. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:19, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::::::::Interesting idea... how do you think they'd implement it? (If it were to happen, that is.) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:25, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::::::I think the two most likely possibilities are that Lee or Anders finds a note or letter among Kara's belongings, or that Kara is revealed to be a Cylon. I don't think they'll recast her because it's a tacky and overused soap opera and pulp sci-fi cliche. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:00, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::Kara cant be a cylon because she was a child and Cylons do not make copies of already or once living people. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 06:54, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::Kara remembers being a child. Baltar remembers being a child too, that doesn't disqualify him, and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] also probably has false childhood memories. And Socrata could be another Cylon, or a hallucination, there's no proof that anyone other than Kara saw her. I'm not saying she's a Cylon, I'm just saying that the possibility hasn't been eliminated. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::AFAIK, Socrata served in the 1st war. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:52, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::Yes, Socrata served in the first war. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 22:22, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::According to Kara's own memories her mother was a veteran of the first war, I'm not aware of any third-party corroboration, and it's an established fact that Cylon sleeper agents have false memories. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:38, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::::Socrata received some kind of medal for service in the war. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:59, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::And Boomer received elephant sculptures from her parents when she went to Fleet Academy. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 06:50, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::::::There's a difference. There must be records in military archives of Socrata's medal (If any archives still exist, that is). Records that date back to the first war. The Cylons weren't infiltrating then. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:51, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::::Who saw or heard of Socrata and had both the motivation and the opportunity to check the military records? We know that Boomer managed to get past any background checks and identity verification the colonial military may have used. We also know that colonial computer security was extremely lax during the fall of the twelve colonies. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:06, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
One possibility is that Thrace (in a past life as the Lord of Kobol, Aurora) helped ''build'' the Temple of Five, knew what the Earth hologram was in "Home, Part II" because she experienced it before, and that, while we may not see her again, bodily, Thrace will be the guiding force (through artifacts and other finds) that will be reflected in not-too-subtle messages on the path, leaving clues as to the clue's author (Thrace). Perhaps Kara Thrace, not Laura Roslin, is the "dying leader" in the Pythian Prophecy. Just a wild speculation, but it fits with some clues, particularly the Eye. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:40, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:I still think Starbuck is the first of the RDM [[Beings of Light]]. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 06:01, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
---Bruzer you know part of my theory but for everyone here I'll post it as well. I personaly belive it will come down to Starbuck being a "Jesus" figure from a Lord of Kobol I'm not 100% sure how the writers will make this happen but I think what we saw in that ep was her basically going to meet "daddy". The speculation about her being one of the final 5 isn't true, she is meant for much more then that. I also think in addition to the final 5 we will see the Lords of Kobol on Sunday, this will be the biggest shock of the year as well. You know how the writers like to take us, make us expect to be surprised one way but shock us with something new in the finales. We may even see Baltar be found not guilty, on a side note I think he's the same as Starbuck here but his "daddy" is who I will call Hades, the Fallen Lord who became the Cylon god. --[[User:Hentai Jeff|Hentai Jeff]] 05:49, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

== The Destiny ==

Not wanting to separate this into its own article, and knowing that this article may not grow for a while (if ever), I added some [[BW:CJ#Derived Content|sourced speculation]] on Thrace's destiny based on series information in an attempt to tie it together. Hopefully it may enlighten some readers as to the sum data on what is known and lead some insight for the character's actions in the future (if any). Ron Moore does [[Podcast:Maelstrom|note]] that the character's "destiny" was not merely to die in a Viper, so this likelihood of something about the character being revealed in season 4 is a probability. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
:As I have said. '''[[Beings of Light|BEING. OF. FRAKKING. LIGHT.]]''' --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:57, 16 March 2007 (CDT)