Talk:Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming/Archive 1

2007-08-03T01:04:01Z

Hellmark: /* Copy of the trailer */

== Separate Continuity Change ==

This article, and the [[Battlestar Galactica (SDS)]] article are now marked as separate continuities to allow sourced information, concept artwork, characters and related materials to be added to the wiki on these unsuccessful Original Series continuation projects. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:24, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

== Copy of the trailer ==
I am under the impression that the trailer is notoriously hard to find and due to copyright issues is not available on the internet or anywhere else. Does anyone here have a bootleg copy of the video by any chances? Id like to see it. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 10:22, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
: Correct. Actually, most of the problems in distributing it lay at the feet of the Screen Actors Guild. As a result, Richard was able to screen this under a strict set of guidelines -- one of which didn't permit people to use camcorders while showing this, or to publish it online. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 10:31, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::someone, somewhere must have it. lol. Maybe they have to keep it under lock and key with 24 hour security :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 11:16, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::I have seen it when Richard Hatch visited Indy in 2003. We had a cookout where he spent the day with me and several of my friends that ran a SF convention that year (this was about 1 year prior to the Miniseries). The trailer was ''impressive''. The effects and acting were nothing like TOS ever saw, but kept its original visual flavor and feel. I think Hatch would have pulled it off if Universal had the means to do so (but Larson had the movie rights, but apparently not enough financial backing). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:48, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
:::I envy you. Id love to see it but i doubt i ever will. I don't go to scifi conventions and even if i wanted to id have to fly across the pond. its all very unlikely. :( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 12:57, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::::I've been wanting to see it again. If I happen to run into Mr. Hatch at DragonCon this year (not sure if he's attending), I'll ask about getting a snippet for the wiki, or at least a handful of stills. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::On [http://www.richardhatch.com/battlestar_galactica/bsgtsc.html Hatch's website for BSGTSC], a few stills are available -- [[User:Hellmark|Hellmark]] 20:04, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Final Five

2007-08-02T21:59:16Z

Hellmark: /* Four Revealed, and their nature */

[[Image:TheFinalFive.JPG|right|thumb|300px|The Final Five in the Kobol Opera House]]
The term "'''Final Five'''" collectively describes five of the twelve [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylon models]] whose identity, knowledge, or existence has been deliberately or accidentally lost to seven of the Humanoid Cylon models.

[[Caprica-Six]], when asked by Gaius Baltar about the five missing models he has not seen on the [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]] he lives on or on [[New Caprica]], curtly replies that the others do not talk about the subject ([[Torn]]).

==The Unauthorized Quest for the Five==
A [[Number Three]] copy, whom [[Gaius Baltar]] calls by her human alias, [[D'Anna Biers]], repeatedly commits suicide to get glimpses of five white-cloaked beings that she believes are images of the Final Five. She attempts to draw what she has seen, but has difficulty in doing so ([[Hero]]).

One detailed sketch which she briefly shows to Baltar depicts her personal artistic rendering of the faces of the Five ([[The Passage]]). The sketch is meant to depict [[Saul Tigh]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]], [[Tory Foster]] and the twelfth and final Cylon. ([[Crossroads, Part II]]).

[[Image:FFSketches.jpg|thumb|left|Sketches of the Five.]]
Baltar's ability to see a virtual doppelganger of Caprica-Six (as well as enjoying her company in various pleasant environments) lead him to suggest that he might be using a Cylon technique known as [[projection]]. This suspicion, in turn, makes Baltar begin a personal inquiry into his own nature after allying himself with D'Anna-Three.

The two eventually make their way to the [[algae planet]], where a Colonial structure, the fabled [[Temple of Five]], awaits with possible answers ("[[The Passage]]", "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]"). When the system's dying star goes nova, a ray of light is generated by the mechanisms of the temple. Number Three steps into the light and suddenly finds herself back in the [[Opera House]] and before the same image of the Five, not persistent. Upon seeing their faces she recognizes one of them in particular, saying in surprise "You... forgive me... I had no idea." She is then pulled back to reality and collapses in Baltar's arms, apparently suffering the effects of a brain hemorrhage. She tells Baltar, "You were right," but dies before answering about what, or telling him what she saw. She tells the [[Cavil]] who greets her in the tank that there are five other Cylons, and he will see them some day.

In a rather striking irony, as the Three sacrifices all to see the Final Five, [[Galen Tyrol]] and [[Samuel Anders]] are just outside the Temple, being shot at by her centurions. Only because Tyrol delays firing off explosives left in the temple does she get a chance to stand within it at activation.

Although four of the final five have been revealed ([[Crossroads, Part II]]), the identity of the person she recognized remains a mystery ([[Rapture]]).

==Awareness of the Five by other seven Cylons==
Caprica Six indicates that the Cylons do not speak of the Five, but she knows how many there are. [[D'Anna Biers]] also indicates to Baltar that they do not discuss the Five. A [[Cavil]] realizes in the [[Temple of Five]] that D'Anna is attempting to see the Final Five, and not simply seeking [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]. He tells her "That can't happen" and points a gun at her to stop her, but is shot by Baltar. Later, a Cavil explains that because of her obsession her entire line will be [[boxing|boxed]] ([[Rapture]]).

A [[Leoben Conoy]] claims that "Adama is a Cylon" though neither Adama is one of the other six Cylons he should know. If an Adama were a member of the final five, Leoben should not, in theory, know this. It is commonly believed that he is lying ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The [[Boomer]] copy of Number Eight, interrogated by Baltar, declares there are eight Cylons in the Fleet. Given that season 3 episodes confirm that the Seven do not interact (or are unwilling to interact) with the Five, the number that Boomer gives is likely other Seven copies in disguise. (This tendency to disguise is confirmed through [[Shelly Godfrey]], [[Gina]] and an unnamed Number Six with black hair found on a stricken baseship in "[[Torn]]"). Also supporting this is the scene where [[Three]] and Sharon Valerii discover Samuel Anders and refer to him as human in the episode, "[[Downloaded]]". A later episode, "[[Rapture]]", shows a Three recognizing one of the faces of the Five, confirming the lack of information to the Seven on the Five's identities.

While [[Cylon Centurion]]s are programmed to recognize and obey [[humanoid Cylon]]s, on a number of occasions they shoot at members of the Five, including Tyrol on Kobol, Anders both on Caprica and outside the Temple of Five, and most members during the exodus from [[New Caprica]].

Both [[Caprica Six]] and Sharon Agathon share a dream vision in which the glowing, white-robed figures of the Five are shown in the [[Opera House]] ([[Crossroads, Part II]]).

==Four Revealed, and their nature==
As the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] draws closer to the [[Ionian nebula]], four people begin hearing an [[The Music|unusual melody]] on wireless radio: these four are Colonel [[Saul Tigh]], Chief [[Galen Tyrol]], Ensign [[Samuel Anders]] and presidential aide [[Tory Foster]] ([[Crossroads, Part I]]). Tyrol and Anders say that the song seems like something from their childhoods, while Tigh becomes progressively more disturbed as he begins to hear the music everywhere on ''Galactica''. Foster becomes noticeably distracted, irritable, and unkempt, claiming to have not been sleeping well. When the fleet finally arrives at the Ionian Nebula the song becomes clear to the four who can hear it and they begin to stalk the halls of ''Galactica'' muttering its mysterious lyrics. Eventually, the four arrive at ''Galactica''’s gym and upon seeing each other the truth becomes clear to them; they are Cylons, four of the Final Five.

After activation, the four revealed Cylons are unaware of any thoughts like Boomer's [[Sharon Valerii#Acts of sabotage|Cylon directives]] other than that they are Cylons. In a sense they know less than the audience and the Significant Seven, who at least know that the Final Five are fundamentally different models.<ref>{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Frak Party Q and A|act=|id=ffdifferent|timestamp=19:05|totalrunning=78:27}}</ref> Tigh and Anders painfully and confusedly recite events from their lives which make little sense in the context of their newly revealed nature. With particular pain, Tigh asks "My gods, what about Ellen?" His personal execution of his wife for being a Cylon collaborator, and his pain over it, have been a major theme in the episode.

The nature of these Cylons is clearly different from the other seven. In particular, Colonel Tigh's friendship with William Adama stretches back to shortly after the end of the first Cylon War and in an interview<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm|title=Post-Gazette Moore interview}}</ref> RDM states Tigh "fought in two wars." ([[Crossroads, Part II]])

As the Seven do not hold (or appear to desire) knowledge of the Five, and with their special nature, their ability to [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] and the existence of multiple copies for any of the Five are uncertain based on aired events and official responses. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.syfyportal.com/news423878.html|title=Things Get Ugly In 'Battlestar' Season 4|date=Jul-10-2007|accessdate=Jul-13-2007|}}</ref>

<gallery>
Image:Tyrol Cylon.jpg|[[Galen Tyrol]]
Image:Anders_Cylon.jpg|[[Samuel Anders]]
Image:Tighlon.jpg|[[Saul Tigh]]
Image:Tory Cylon.JPG|[[Tory Foster]]
</gallery>

===Connections between the Colonial gods and Cylon god===
*The Temple of Five was built over 4,000 years prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], long before the Cylons existed. The [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]] would, logically, have no knowledge of these automatons in the strictest sense. However, the Thirteenth Tribe has significant prophetic insight, as shown in the works of [[Pythia]]. According to Colonial scriptures, "Five pillars of the temple were fashioned after the five priests devoted to the one whose name cannot be spoken". This may have been another Lord of Kobol, given that on a deleted scene [[Elosha]] noted that the fall of [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and its civilization was due in part to a "jealous god".

*On [[New Caprica]], D'Anna/Three meets [[Dodona Selloi]], a human [[oracle]], who relays a message from Three's God, despite the oracle's association with the Lords of Kobol.

*With this information, there is a strong, but unexplained correlation or connection with the the Cylon God and the Lords of Kobol.

===The Eye of Jupiter and Kara Thrace===
*The Eye of Jupiter storyline introduced an association between Kara Thrace, a human that "doodled" a circular image as a child with no prior derivation (her old apartment on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] has a painting of the image from the episode, "[[Valley of Darkness]]"), and the mandalas or icons of the eye that decorated a temple built 4,000 years before her birth. No further information is revealed other than the prophecy from [[Leoben Conoy]], who told Thrace of an unexplained "destiny" ([[Flesh and Bone]]).
*It could be hypothesized that Kara Thrace is the final Cylon to be revealed, due to her apparent "resurrection" and appearance in the [[Ionian nebula]] ([[Crossroads, Part II]]). (This possibility is not stated, but can be implied due to all present information provided in the series.)

===Illusion or Truth===
*The Threes hunt for and see visions of the Five, which leads to the other Cylons themselves [[boxing]] the entire line of Threes after her discovery, but whether this is done to suppress the notion or actual information of the final five or to relieve the other Cylons of an aberrant model is unclear.

*Later, in dream visions of the [[Opera House]] shared by [[Laura Roslin]], [[Sharon Agathon]] and [[Caprica Six]], the same 5 glowing figures seen by Three appear, along with the same chamber with six drapes, this time empty. Six sees them for a more prolonged period in a second vision.

*As the Temple of Five was apparently built for human usage, the Temple may have only allowed the transitional visions that the Threes see to be more persistent and clear. It may never be revealed what Baltar (or another human) would have seen. While Baltar believed Three and actively participated in her quest, both his virtual Six and a [[Hybrid]] noted that he, not D'Anna/Three, was intended to use the Temple's imaging mechanism as the "chosen one". The human association and significance of the five priests, the god they worshiped, and their connections with the Cylons, Kara Thrace and Baltar are not yet explained.

==Notes==
* The podcast for "[[Rapture]]" confirms that the Final Five Cylons have not been [[boxing|boxed]]<ref>{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Rapture|act=4|id=firstboxing|timestamp=41:47|totalrunning=}}</ref>.
* During a Q&A session on the official Sci Fi channel Battlestar Galactica forum Ronald D. Moore notes that he already knows who the last Cylon is, and that he's already left clues as to who it is<ref>[http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2270103&st=0&p=3041263&#entry3041263 20 Answers - SCI FI FORUMS] Retrieved 03-27-2007</ref>.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

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Talk:Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming/Archive 1

Final Five