Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2011-05-19T03:03:50Z

Garrett4: /* One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? */

:''For discussions prior to March 14, 2007, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Virtual_beings&oldid=110913 see this revision.]''

== Major revision ==

This article was strewn with theories and [[BW:FANW|fanwankery]] that cluttered the article. With the revelations of season 3, what is known about the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar reduces the probability of earlier speculation. Recent contributions have been more of possibility that is hardly supported by aired content, and reading the article as a whole was nearly impossible. As well, the article repeated informaation already present in the episode guides or a more relevant article. I have rewritten the article to keep sole focus on the origins, motivations and behavior of the virtual beings, removing all previous irrelevant, incorrect or otherwise inappropriate content on their nature or history.

As this article deals with the virtual beings related to Cylon activity, I eliminated the text on other character visions; they are more suited for a separate article to keep topics from blending.

With major revisions like this, there is always a possibility that something significant was lost. Contributors should feel free to add in significant notes of the virtual beings, but please do not repeat every instance of the being's presence or interject speculation that is not supported with episode content. The article, in my opinion and recommendation, should focus more on what they do to the actual characters and less on their nature until the show reveals more of their origin. Again, please be careful about excessive speculation; "theories" per se are not acceptable on Battlestar Wiki. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Baltar Episodes ==

In the major edit, I botched the episode citation for virtual Baltar's visit to C-Six in her jail cell. One or both of the episode citations I noted are wrong. Corrections to this information are appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:The visit is in "The Woman King". That's where the two kiss and they wonder what's going on.--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:00, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

About this: "Neither character has revealed the presence of these images to each other or any other character as of the episode, "[[The Woman King]]" (where the virtual Baltar makes an appearance)." 
Does this mean that it is the first instance where another character (here Roslin) really wonders what one of them is doing? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:It should say "Neither character has revealed the existence (...)." Other characters have witnessed the strange behavior, but to my memory, only Roslin has verbally wondered. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Baltar and his Virtual Baltar ==

Virtual Baltar has appeared to Baltar. -- [[User:LicensedLunacy|LicensedLunacy]] 16:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that Baltar seeing himself is just a unique way to convey he is thinking/ talking to himself, considering his options. [[User:Snorkel378|Snorkel378]]

: That might be a good way to look at it... Actually, it might be another part of his psyche he's talking to. It can be said that Virtual Six is the part of his subconscious mind, trying to deal with the fact that he's responsible for so many people's deaths in another light. But that's a topic for discussion at a [http://www.battlestarforum.com forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 00:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual Leoben==
Shouldn't we add virtual Leoben? He's sort of important I'd say, and is not a part of Kara...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:That's a good question. I would say "yes" but that also introduces other dream-related visions such as the ones I removed. I recommend "no" as the article should limit itself to visions that are experienced by characters in real-time and not while unconscious (sleeping or otherwise). That's my opinion and is open for more scrutiny. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:No. There is a good chance that Head-Six and Head-Baltar are somehow Cylon-related. That chance is not so great with Maelstrom Leoben, since IMHO it's more likely just a representation of her own subconscious and not in any way whatsoever related to the real Leoben (it even says so in the episode). --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:04, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::Maybe we should add at least a note about Maelstrom Leoben and A Day in Life Carolanne, though? 12:37, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
:::I concur with Serenity. The virtuals are definitely a unexpected (and unrevealed) side-effect of Cylon technology, that much is certain. The virtual Leoben ''isn't'' a Cylon, and doesn't appear in real time. He needs a separate article (and deserves it). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I've created a [[virtual Leoben]] article and updated the relevant pages where he it cited. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I have to disagree that the virtual Six and Baltar are definitely, or even probably, a result of Cylon technology. Their nature is as unknown as the virtual Leoben's. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:37, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
: Why wouldn't Leoben also be listed here. There's an entire page o the site called "Messenger Leoben." [[User:Shimel|Shimel]] 07:09, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

==Cylon Tech==
Isn't this line: "Since the effect appears to occur only between Caprica-Six and Gaius Baltar, it is possible that their visions are an unknown side-effect of Cylon technology," complete specualtion? I think it should be removed, but before doing so, I thought I'd check to make sure there wasn't any concensus I wasn't aware of. If it happened with the other six members of the [[Significant Seven]] (or even a majority of them) I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but as it's only happened with Six and Baltar I think it's out of place. If anything, a more appropriate stateent would be something like it's an unkown side-effect of cylon-human intimacy.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 21:09, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
:The way you phrase is still speculation, but is more precise to what we know, and would be more appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]
::I completely agree, and I'd rather remove it outright, but was trying to be diplomatic. I'm going to remove it completely.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 10:25, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Ellen? ==

How is she different from Bill's hallucination of [[Carolanne Adama]] in "[[A Day in the Life]]"? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 18:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, it could just be a normal hallucination. This might be more, but until it is confirmed, pushing her appearance so clearly into the direction of the virtual beings is POV. I reworded the section to make it more neutral and less certain. The term "Virtual Ellen" shouldn't be used so freely and always in quotation marks. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:18, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:It depends. I have a feeling we'll see more of her in future episodes. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::Tigh could even be [[projection|projecting]] her onto Caprica Six (seems a bit the wrong way round to me :D) but that doesn't make her a being like V.Six or V.Baltar who are all mystical or whatnot. Ellen's words and actions all seem to be what Caprica said and did anyway, wheras V.Six and V.Baltar are separate entities. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:::That's definitely a possibility. Maybe doing a "hallucinations" article would suffice... which would be a bit ironic, given that this article itself came from an article on Cylon based hallucinations, if I recall correctly. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::::You do. We used to describe hallucinations here, only to discover they were all virtual beings, and renamed the article accordingly. With Adama and Tigh hallucinating about their wives, that may not have been that good a choice (in hindsight). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 23:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::I suggest we move the "Virtual Ellen" section into the [[Ellen Tigh]] article until we have a reason to believe she is anything other than a hallucination/projection. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::I think it would be more appropriate here or in the Saul Tigh article. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual?==

I think the fact that we've seen direct physical intervention by "Virtual" Six onscreen in [[Escape Velocity]] throws the whole "virtual" concept right out the window. Could explain the sudden disappearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]] after their respective acts, as well. One could also infer some serious intervention on the part of "Virtual" Leoben during Starbuck's "death" but that's even further speculation. Anyway, just a thought I felt was worth mentioning. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 20:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:She only interacted with Baltar. We've seen her push him into a wall or mirror before, so we know that she can force him to move in a certain way. I don't see how that makes her any less "virtual," since she exists in his mind. And Gina didn't suddenly dissapear, she blew herself up. [[User:INH|INH]] 02:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
The footage clearly shows intervention ... he's held up and forced towards the marines, moving quite unnaturally. Yes, Gina blew herself up, but I'm referring to how she removed herself from ''Pegasus'' after killing Cain. I'd love some episode reference for "We've seen her push him into a wall or mirror before" so I can review it. Thanks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 02:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: Right, she's still virtual, and we don't really see whether or not Baltar's feet make it off the ground. I'm sure they did some wire work in the scene, but we don't really know what we're supposed to believe... This is where a podcast would definitely help. The only one that disappears unexpectedly is Shelly, and she could have easily flushed herself out an airlock, given how they aren't guarded. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: While it's the most extreme seemingly physical interaction so far, this isn't really too different from what happens in ''[[w:Fight Club|Fight Club]]'' for example, and not completely impossible to do alone. While it seems that he is held in the air, it's not actually shown. Could be either. Sure, it might be more, but it's not ''that'' certain. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::IMO anything which happens while Virtual Six is visible should be considered unreliable. In other words, I think that only movements which Baltar could not plasibly make under his own power occuring while Virtual Six is not in the shot should be considered conclusive evidence of physical interaction. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::I don't at all like the implication of an invisible "Six" physically lifting Baltar, but we have to acknowledge that setting up the shot the way they did was not at all trivial, and must have been done for a reason. Whether this was intended to be dramatic (and thus, demands a literal interpretation) or comic (and thus, just a sight gag) is unclear - it's a mirthless episode, but Olmos's previous episodes have demonstrated a taste for comedy. If it we have to interpret it literally, well, that's a challenge. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::To counter the point, had Baltar been lifted "off the ground", we'd see a variety of shocked reactions from those who witnessed this otherworldly event. So not only do we have to gauge what we see Baltar doing, but we also have to look at the entire picture. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::I dont understand how this is in question. IIRC from the podcast for the episode..James Callis did all the movements under his own power..if the actor could do them, why is it in question the the character couldn't do them? Also from the podcast, Ron complained that the intent was not to look like he was lifted but under his own power. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Virtual > Head ==

Pretty much every official source I see (including RDM's podcast) uses the phrases "Head-Six", and "Head-Baltar" rather than "Virtual". Shouldn't we follow suit? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
:Lacks gravitas, but does seem more standard. What does RDM call them in the podcasts? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::He calls them Head-Six and Head-Baltar. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 05:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:We can use both. And note the terminology here. But there isn't really much point in changing it throughout the wiki. I don't think it's too confusing to use both for some variety. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::We should use both. "Head" is more colloquial but also has a loose ungrammatical and perjorative nature I find weird. I see "virtual" around the fansphere just as well. For this article and throughout the wiki, "virtual" should be used but references to "head" (yes, please) should be redirects to here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Such redirects are already in place :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't agree that we should use "Head-Six" and "Head-Baltar". Frankly, this already presupposes that these are figments of a person's imagination; virtual is more ambiguous, and has a wider-range of meanings than "head" (which is another way of saying "glorified imaginary friend". So, Ron uses it... then again, he and Eick have diluted themselves into believing that "Hero" fits snugly into continuity when we all know that isn't the case. So... time to put on those critical thinking caps. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 21:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Virtual Cat ==

I find it curious that [[Romo Lampkin]]'s virtual cat from [[Sine Qua Non]] isn't listed. Is this an oversight or is it deliberate? There can be no question that the cat was indeed virtual. That cat had been dead for a long enough time for Lee to question its time of death. The cat is never seen by Lee. Romo is the only one to interact with the cat, and then, only by voice.
--[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:28, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::Because there's a difference between a virtual being and a mere hallucination. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
:::I havent seen this distinction in the show. No virtual being has given any character any information that they didnt already know, or could have reasonably deduced by themselves. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::The Virtual Six lifted Baltar off the ground in a manner that was physically impossible for him to do on his own. There are other examples too. The virtual beings aren't mere hallucinations. The presence of extra-corporeal entities and/or spiritual powers in this show is all but spelled out in giant letters for the audience. [[User:Blue Rook|Blue Rook]] 08:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Not so. Baltar had no way of knowing that Hera would arrive or of her connection to the Opera House. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::::How could have a cylon known about the birth of hara? And if james callis could do the moves without outside assistence, so could baltar. And havent you noticed that when Ron Moore hits you over the head with a concept, its often wrong? And this still doesn't rule out a virtual cat. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 07:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::What Cylon? Virtual Six isn't a Cylon. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
:: I agree that it is a virtual being (or the virtual being as it has not been disproved that they are different, and when questioned on it the subject it was deflected, possibly the Cylon God). My reasoning for this is that every encounter with one has moved the story on often with a purpose (e.g. Baltar's Six being pissed at him for comforting Gina then telling him “God will not forgive this sin”, Caprica's Baltar for telling her to find the humans and then Baltar's Six telling him it is the reckoning when the ships land on New Caprica). In this case it forced Romo to be pissed at the loss of his cat and force Lee to take up the mantle of President and help the truce to occur. [[User:Chris etd|Chris etd]] 03:27, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

== These Angels Making Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. '' {{unsigned|Walabio}}

:It is what it is, Walabio. :) For further discussion about the episode that's not relevant to the quality and content of the article's editorial content, perhaps you should redirect (and reproduce) your thoughts on the [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=3050 talk thread] for the episode on the Battlestar Forum. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:23, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Rename to "Messengers"==
Hey guys, I was thinking, given the mention that RDM referred to them as "the messengers" in the podcast for No Exit and the fact that they are confirmed to be supernatural, without necessarily being angels or demons, that perhaps we should change the article name to more accurately reflect what they are.

"Virtual beings" has worked until now, because we didn't know if they were truly something supernatural, but since we now know they aren't, and we have a fairly decent term (from a good enough source) I think it might be fair to say that it's time to change to the more accurate term. Thoughts? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 02:10, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
:: Actually, no they have not been "confirmed to be supernatural." All we know is that they are messengers of an entity that does not like to be called "God." -- [[User:Troyian|Troyian]] 06:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
:: Good idea. The term "messengers" is certainly more semi-official than "virtual beings", a term which doesn't actually make that much sense. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
::: Strictly, the in-show term for them is Angels. This is what H6 calls herself, this is what Baltar calls them. In the writers room they were "head characters" and then called messengers in a podcast. Nothing is a clear winner, though as Caprica adds VR to the galactiverse, the term virtual may become less than ideal.--[[User:Bradtem|bradtem]] 00:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

It's been a while, but I think the issue still stands: I think we should rename this page to "Messengers" or some variation of that. Yes, within the show they're always referenced as Angels, outside of it, however, "Messengers" is the most accurate post-revelation term applied to them, since the creators explicitly state that they don't consider them "angels" or "demons".

As for the "head character" terminology, it seems this was mainly used because of the mystery surrounding them (even to the writers back then, I guess), but it no longer really applies. In any case "Virtual beings" is certainly not the best of the available terms, as it is not only completely fan-made, but it also carries certain connotations which make it seem like a less than partial fanmade term at that.... --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:20, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

:Honestly, given the unfolding of ''Caprica'', usage of the word "virtual" gives rise to connotations of the technological context of an avatar rather than a spiritual/incorporeal/supernatural one and I think steering away from such confusion should be the primary goal in a name-change. Personally, I've always preferred the application of the word "spectre" (you've got to admit that "Spectre Six" has a nice ring to it), but I nevertheless feel as though "Messengers" weighs the heaviest seeing as how every one of these categorised beings have indeed been messengers of a various sort.--[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

:: In reviewing the above arguments and what's been introduced thus far in ''Caprica'', I do have to agree that the term "virtual" should be dropped. Further, I concur with Mars that the term "Messengers" is for the best, since that's what they really are anyway. As for Angels, well... that's a bit up in the air. It's the first in-show term for these beings, I'll grant you that, but they don't exactly fit the whole idea—or definition, either—that angels are "benevolent" creatures. Still, let's not confuse anything here and go ahead and move this to "Messengers" with proper redirects from terms like "angels" and "head characters," and all that. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:40, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

::: I concur. "Angel" derives from Latin and Greek words meaning "messenger" anyway. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:47, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

== Virtual Baltar doesn't work for God ==

This paragraph is not strictly true and has been interpreted:

The two discuss the cycle of life and Virtual Baltar chides Virtual Six for calling the being they work for God, as it apparently doesn't like being called that. Virtual Baltar has the series last line, which is a response to Virtual Six's stern look: "silly me.... silly, silly me." The two then walk off together into present day New York City. 

I suggest something more general and more literal because the last scene could also be interpreted as such:

The two discuss the cycle of life and Virtual Six declares she is optimistic about the future. Upon being asked why by Virtual Baltar, she declares that its a mathematical probability and THAT is part of God's plan. To which he jokingly appears affronted, saying menacingly; "You know he doesn't like that name.", insinuating that mathematical probability is actually part of his bosses, the Devil's, plan. When she retorts by way of a look of disdain, he feigns an apology, saying; "silly me .... silly, silly me."

even though it may be fanwankery, I still believe the former paragraph is an 'interpretation' of the ending, not statement of fact. It could be re-written more generally and literally to avoid interpretation that they BOTH work for God.--
[[User:Barstuck|Barstuck]] 19:08, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
*I don't think we should change it, I think that's the most simple and basic interpretation that the scene could have. Not to mention, of course, that RDM confirmed in an interview that the scene was meant to make the audience question the nature of "the Cylon God", so they were both definitely talking about the same entity, regardless of what this is. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
** I suppose we have to expect there to be information from outside the show on the show's own wiki. But I like how wikipedia stated it. More loose - more open to the viewer's interpretation, and a satisfying factual explanation. I'll leave it at that. Thanks.--[[User:Barstuck|Barstuck]] 00:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't know which wikipedia article you may be referring to, but after looking over the article I realized that there are quite a few things that feel a bit....decisive, given the nature of their revelation. The main thing is that Moore specifically mentions wanting them being ambiguous beings working for an ambiguous power, yet the article doesn't necessarily reflect that, especially by referring to them as "angels" (which is, I'll admit, the only thing HS ever called herself, and what other characters called them near the end).
: Do note that that conversation was truncated from the original script, which was shown in the readthrough video in Eick's podcast. The "silly me" line refers to Head Baltar's question as to what the stakes are in a bet over whether humanity destroys itself again.--[[User:Bradtem|bradtem]] 00:18, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Still, this connects more with my point above of changing the article title (and the references to "angels" and "virtual beings") into "Messengers", which, as mentioned before, is the "most official" and honestly most accurate term that would also serve to maintain the ambiguity. The other factor affecting this would be "God", but honestly there's little we can do with that and I think that the perviously suggested change might be enough to make it, without removing the references to them being "angels" by other characters (though not forgetting their ambiguity in the text). --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:54, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

== Starbuck ==

Shouldn't Starbuck be included somewhere here? Her disappearance seemed to indicate that once she died and returned, she too was a messenger (her page even links to the Messengers page). [[User:Shimel|Shimel]] 19:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
:i agree. [[User:Pst001|Pst001]] 09:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
: Sounds good. I removed the link on Kara's page that led here, but I'm not sure how to redirect Leoben's page here (been awhile since I did any serious wiki editing), and I don't see it in the help section. [[User:Shimel|Shimel]] 01:22, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

== One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? ==

-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time. {{unsigned|Garrett4‎}}
:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)
::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned|Garrett4}}
::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
:::: So in other words it would be better to say that they chose those forms because it would be the easiest for the people they were messaging to process? Since Baltar and Six were very caring about themselves they could process seeing their idealized selves pretty easy. Whereas Roslin and a few others, if Kara is a messenger, view others. Wonder what they may say about Baltar and Six.

Gaius Baltar

2011-05-12T22:38:35Z

Garrett4: grammatical wording, could do more with less.

:''For the [[Original Series]] analogue, see: [[Baltar (TOS)]].''
:''For others with the same first name, see: [[Gaius (disambiguation)]].''

{{Character Data
|photo= Gaius Baltar.jpg
|colony= Born on [[Aerilon]], later relocated to [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]]
|birthname= Gaius Baltar
|death=Unknown causes on [[Earth (RDM)#A New Earth|new Earth]], c. 148,000 BCE
|seen= Miniseries
|parents= [[Julius Baltar]] (father) Unnamed mother
|marital status= In a relationship with [[Caprica-Six]]
|role= Leader of the [[Cult of Baltar|monotheistic cult]]; former President of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]; former Caprican Delegate; former Fleet science advisor
|actor= [[James Callis]]
|sepcon=Gaius Baltar (alternate)
}}

Doctor '''Gaius Baltar''' is a brilliant scientist, legally-elected President of the [[Twelve Colonies of Kobol]], and, later, a revered religious figure for the remnants of humanity. Though not without his flaws, Baltar has acted selflessly and saved the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] on numerous occasions.

__TOC__

== Background ==

* Dr. Baltar is from [[The Twelve Colonies of Kobol#Aerilon|Aerilon]]. He was born and raised on a dairy farm outside of the town of [[Cuffle's Breath Wash]]. Finding the local dialect to be unpleasant, starting at the age of ten he trained himself to speak without the [[Language in the Twelve Colonies#Aerilon Accent|Aerilon accent]] in hopes that one day he might be considered as not coming from Aerilon. He left Aerilon after his 18th birthday turning his back on his family and his heritage.
* He was formerly a lead defense systems developer working for the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense]] and came to prominence as a computer technology designer, having won three [[Magnate Prize]]s.
* He networks with others well, and became personal friends with President [[Richard Adar]]. However, Baltar is extremely arrogant at times.
* Baltar becomes responsible for the design of the critical [[Command Navigation Program]] (CNP) used throughout the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]], but could not fix all of its shortfalls himself and asked his lover ([[Number Six]]) to fix almost half of the base code. When she rewrote the code, she got it up to 95% efficiency but also put in back doors to allow the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] to "shut-down" space craft fitted with the CNP. It's shown that he was somewhat aware of what she was doing, but he did it for ''her'', not the company she supposedly worked for, as he truly fell for her after she helped his father out.
* Baltar's scientific prowess seems strongest in the medical and biological fields ([[Epiphanies]]). As a result of his lesser (although still advanced) computer programming skills, he seeks the help (and as a byproduct, the affections of) a [[Caprica-Six|young woman]] to aid him with the CNP.
* Baltar's two-year affair with the mysterious woman-- even to the extent of using code she herself wrote to overcome shortfalls in his CNP -- allowed her unrestricted access to some of the most sensitive systems of the Colonial defenses.
*Baltar's involvement with his blonde assistant does not stop him from dalliances with other women during this time, right up to when his assistant confronts Baltar and a lover in bed.

==Character History==

=== The Attack on the Twelve Colonies ===

* Baltar learns that his "corporate spy" lover is in fact a new type of Cylon -- a [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon in human form]], able to mimic human beings down to the smallest detail, who altered his CNP with [[backdoor]]s to subvert any CNP-equipped ship.
[[image:Mini-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six|Number Six]] kissing in the [[Miniseries]].]]
*Even though Baltar is appalled that it was his sexual folly that led to a holocaust, he is nevertheless determined to survive and keep this unintended treachery hidden. He only survives the following attack because the Cylon agent sacrifices herself to protect him from a nuclear blast.
* Baltar is rescued from [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] following the forced-landing of a Colonial [[Raptor]] -- at the cost of [[Karl Agathon|one of the crew staying behind]] ([[TRS]]: [[Miniseries]])
* Baltar is plagued by visions of Number Six that only he can see and hear. He cannot be sure whether this is a result of his own guilt at his actions or whether -- as she initially claims -- she is part of a chip that has been implanted in his brain<ref name="chip">The idea that Six is an actual chip in Baltar's head was dismissed by Dr. [[Cottle]]'s image scan of Baltar's head. See [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|the section on alternate reasons for Six's existence]] for more.</ref>.
*Baltar is put to work trying to devise a means of detecting these humanoid Cylons. He luckily exposes [[Aaron Doral]] as a Cylon agent ([[TRS]]: [[Miniseries]]), using little more than invented [[technobabble]] to convince [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]].

=== Gaining trust ===

*Baltar eventually develops a genuine detector. This, together with his survival of a foiled attempt to expose him as a traitor ([[TRS]]: "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"), firmly establishes his credentials within the Fleet's hierarchy. As the Cylon, [[Shelly Godfrey]] looked like his mental Number Six and appeared after she mysteriously disappeared, Baltar came to believe Godfrey was a physical manifestation of his inner Six especially when Godfrey's deception was revealed after he accepted the Cylon God and repented and Godfrey disappeared mysteriously and Messenger Six reappeared at the same time. It was revealed, however, that Godfrey was in fact another copy of Number Six who had the job of discrediting him due to his Cylon detector and disappeared due to another Cylon killing her by secretly blowing her out an airlock ([[TRS]]: "[[The Plan]]").
*With this new-found trust, and despite his willingness to deliberately conceal vital information, such as [[Sharon Valerii]] true status as a [[Cylon agent]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Flesh and Bone]]"), Baltar enters the realm of political leadership, first as the Representative for [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] on the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]], and then as the newly-elected Vice President of the Colonies ([[TRS]]: "[[Colonial Day]]").
* Messenger Six continues to help and hinder Baltar, gradually drawing him to a point of near-open acceptance and participation in Cylon plans and activities ([[TRS]]: "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"). Whether by coincidence or design, Six manipulates Baltar through repeated threats of exposing his involvement with the destruction of the Colonies ([[TRS]]: "[[33]],", "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"), while also appearing to aid him by giving information that [[The Hand of God (RDM)|appears insightful or inspired]] to help the Colonials.
[[image:Scattered-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|[[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Number Six]] seeing "the shape of things to come" in "[[Scattered]]".]]

=== A greater purpose or insanity? ===

*Initially an atheist, Baltar is slowly converted to the Cylons' monotheistic faith: first he repents his sins ([[TRS]]: "[[33]]" ), then he prays to the Cylon God and devotes his life into serving his divine will ([[TRS]]: "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"), and finally, he is led to believe that he is an instrument of God ([[TRS]]: "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]").
*Baltar is subjected to a final revelation of his role with the Cylons (as Messenger Six sees it) when "the future" is revealed to him on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]], in the form of the first of "God's new generation of children" ([[TRS]]: "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]").
[[Image:Baltarixvalleydarkness.jpg|Number Six showing Baltar the clearing filled with human bones, telling him they were from human sacrifices.|thumb]]
* While stranded on Kobol after a crash landing, Baltar's Messenger Six warns him that the Colonial religion is a falsehood to cover up atrocities of their nature.
*On Kobol, Baltar shoots [[Crashdown]] in the back, killing him instantly, to save [[Cally]] from a practically suicidal and unnecessary attack on a Cylon missile battery<ref>The act of killing Crashdown appears to have led to a dramatic change in Baltar's attitude toward hurting anyone directly. When Cally tries to blackmail him after they return from Kobol, Baltar is somewhat rough with her. When he visits Tyrol and Boomer in the brig, he does not hesitate to inject Tyrol with fatal drugs to blackmail Boomer into giving Cylon secrets. Baltar's humanitarian acts to the Six copy known as Gina also suggests Baltar's attitude in the care of Cylons is further changing. More and more, Baltar appears to prefer direct intervention and is less cowardly in his attitude.</ref>. The group are eventually rescued by the Raptors. Baltar tells the [[SAR]] team that Crashdown died a hero in the fight, and Chief Tyrol reluctantly corroborates his story ([[TRS]]: "[[Fragged]]").
*Back on ''Galactica'', Cally blackmails Baltar into making it a priority to prove that Chief Tyrol is not a Cylon, as Colonel Tigh suspects, or Cally would reveal the truth of Crashdown's death.
* Incensed at this ingratitude, Baltar gambles that the [[brig|jailed]] Boomer knows of the number of Cylons in the Fleet, and blackmails her into doing so, using Tyrol's life.
[[image:brainscan.jpg|Baltar receives his brain scan from Dr. Cottle, as Six watches on in amusement.|thumb]]
*Questioning his own sanity after his Messenger Six claims that he was generally crazy, Baltar has a brain scan performed in [[sickbay]] by Dr. [[Cottle]] which confirms no "foreign objects" are present in his head.
*Baltar is ready to believe that he is truly insane until he hears [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Sharon]] discuss Valerii's pregnancy with a Cylon/human hybrid child from his observation room. Six tells Baltar earlier that "their child" would be born in that cell, and this leads Baltar to realize that Six ''must'' be real because his subconscious couldn't have known that ([[TRS]]: "[[Home, Part II]]"). However, Hera is actually neither conceived, nor born in that specific cell. Instead, Messenger Six could actually be hinting at Tigh's and Caprica-Six's future baby, that most likely ''is'' conceived in that particular cell.

=== Many talents ===

*When [[D'Anna Biers]] films a documentary about life aboard ''Galactica'', Six urges Baltar to give an interview to try to win people over to thinking that he should be running the Fleet. Baltar performs badly as he begins his interview but, fortunately, his interview is interrupted by a Cylon attack that Biers chooses to film instead ([[TRS]]: "[[Final Cut]]").
*Baltar aids in trying to overcome the Cylon [[logic bomb]] which devastates ''Galactica'''s [[computers]]. Tigh's dislike of Baltar's involvement in this problem makes the scientist edgy enough to retort, "I'm sorry. Do you want to survive this one or not, Colonel?" ([[TRS]]: "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]")
[[image:baltargina.jpg|Baltar with Gina, the Cylon prisoner from ''Pegasus''.|thumb]]
*[[Helena Cain|Admiral Helena Cain]] requests that Baltar examine ''Pegasus' '' own Cylon prisoner to see what information he could glean from it. Baltar is horrified to discover the Cylon was a terribly abused and tortured copy of Number Six named "[[Gina Inviere]]". Baltar vows to help her and begins by having her restraints removed and bringing food to her ([[TRS]]: "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]").
*Over the course of his examination of Gina, he uncovers both her wish to die and the secret of the Cylon [[Resurrection Ship]]. He passes this information to Adama and Admiral Cain, who develop an [[Attack on the Resurrection Ship|operation to destroy it]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]").
*Baltar continues to spend time with Gina, eventually helping her escape from the brig. He tells Gina that he can hide her, and also that he loves her. Gina goes on to kill Cain and escapes from ''Pegasus'' through unexplained means ([[TRS]]: "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").
*Torn between the "flesh and blood" copy of the [[Number Six]] copy, Gina, the demands of his internal Number Six, and his continuing attempt to cover his own multiple duplicities, Baltar becomes more aggressive and confrontational. With President Roslin's advice to abort the Cylon-hybrid fetus of the incarcerated [[Sharon Valerii]], Baltar reacts to defend it as if it were his own child. Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] admonishes Baltar, telling him that, on Roslin's death, he will become President and that he needs to behave like one.
*Desperate to save Valerii's fetus, Baltar reviews Dr. [[Cottle]]'s medical tests and performs experiments of his own, learning a striking revelation: the blood of the fetus can destroy cancer and repair its damage to human tissue.<ref name="stemcells">According to the writer's original planning, this was due to the presence of Cylon [[Wikipedia:stem cells|stem cells]] in the fetus's blood. This explanation was absent in the final shooting script.</ref> With Admiral Adama's permission, he injects the dying President Roslin with some of the fetal blood, which works miraculously, saving both Roslin and Valerii's child by circumstance ([[TRS]]: "[[Epiphanies]]").
*Baltar keeps his [[Fumarella leaf|fumarella]] supply fresh by trading in the [[black market (organization)|black market]] through new ''Pegasus'' Commander [[Jack Fisk]]. Not realizing that Fisk had been murdered, the scientist visits Fisk's quarters, only to meet Captain [[Lee Adama]], who has started an investigation on the black market and Fisk's murder. Baltar truthfully tells Adama that he knows nothing of Fisk's murder, but Adama correctly deduces Baltar's association with Fisk and the black market since the "[[Caprican Imperial]]" fumarellos are a known favorite of Baltar's ([[TRS]]: "[[Black Market]]").

=== Increasing political ambitions ===

*After saving Roslin's life, Baltar reads the letter given to him in the event of her death, in which she says he lacks compassion and asks him to open his heart if he becomes president. Furious, and goaded on by Six who tells him that Roslin doesn't trust him, Baltar delivers the nuclear warhead used for the Cylon detector to Gina and her militant "[[Demand Peace]]" movement.
*Baltar is also unaware that his involvement in the destruction of the Colonies is partially revealed. In ''Galactica'''s sickbay, Laura Roslin recalled those final days on Caprica, and remembered Baltar in the company of a [[Number Six|woman]] on Caprica who she knows now is a Cylon ([[TRS]]: "[[Epiphanies]]").
*Baltar is summoned to ''[[Colonial One]]'', where Roslin offers him, without explanation, the chance to resign from the Vice Presidency to return to his studies. Baltar becomes immediately suspicious (and frightened) in Roslin's succinct and direct vote of no-confidence in her vice president. Realizing that the Vice Presidency now has greater importance (if nothing other than to save his own hide), Baltar turns down what Roslin calls a "one-time offer" to save himself as he saved Roslin on her deathbed ([[TRS]]: "[[Black Market]]").

[[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|Gaius Baltar as President, from "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".|thumb]]
*Dr. Baltar decides (with no small influence from Six and [[Tom Zarek]]) to run for President in the coming Colonial Elections ([[TRS]]: "[[The Captain's Hand]]").

=== New Caprica ===

*Roslin is declared the winner of the elections, but is caught by Adama for manipulating the tally. Baltar is declared president. While Baltar demands an investigation initially, he backs down under Adama's glare.
*President Baltar orders the Fleet to return to the marginally habitable planet [[New Caprica]] seconds after his inauguration. Baltar shows incompetency as president a few days later, when he orders the colonization of the planet. In an attempt to cover up his role in giving Gina the nuclear warhead used to detonate ''[[Cloud 9]]'', Baltar orders Adama to stop any further investigation into the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and two other ships (he correctly guesses that the conflagration was started by [[Gina Inviere]]).
*During his first year in office, Baltar indulges in women, wallows in the incompetence of his administration, and is callously unsympathetic to the supply and resource problems plaguing the new colony, whose inhabitants continue to live in tents. The public, including the labor union led by [[Galen Tyrol]], is notably displeased with his administration.
*380 days after Baltar's ascension to the presidency, a Cylon armada finds the planet after detecting the radiation signature caused by the destruction of ''[[Cloud 9]]'', which took that long to reach them. This event heralds the return of the dormant Messenger Number Six noting to him that "judgment day" has come at last. Copies of a [[Number Five|Five]], [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] meet with Baltar and his cabinet, recommending surrender; it is here that he is reunited with the Six he fell in love with on [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])".
*After four months of Cylon occupation, the citizens of New Caprica despise their president. Baltar fears for his life and turns down public appearances, such as the [[New Caprica Police]] Academy graduation, to avoid assassination attempts ([[TRS]]: "[[Occupation]]"). It is even commented by the Cylon occupiers while discussing the notion of public executions to discourage uprising that publicly executing Baltar would be counterproductive, since the populace would cheer his death.
*Baltar is deposed after Admiral Adama organizes and executes a [[Battle of New Caprica|daring rescue mission]] of New Caprica's occupied inhabitants. During the exodus of those willing to leave New Caprica, Baltar happens across the dead body of [[Maya]] and the Cylon hybrid [[Hera Agathon|Hera]], and stays behind with the Cylons ([[TRS]]: "[[Exodus, Part II]]").

=== Among the Cylons ===

*Once on board the basestar, Baltar must prove his worth to the Cylons or be killed. He seeks help from the basestar's [[Hybrid]], and gleans information which leads the Cylon fleet to the [[Lion's Head Nebula]], where they recover an ancient beacon. The beacon is also a plague carrier. To further prove his worth, Baltar takes on a mission to the dying basestar ([[TRS]]: "[[Torn]]").
*Baltar is tortured by a Number Three for information on the viral plague. Misinterpreting his screams of love for the Internal Six as feeling for her, Number Three enters into a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Caprica-Six as well and starts to share a bed with both of them ([[TRS]]: "[[A Measure of Salvation]]").
* Learning more about Cylon culture among them, he develops doubts about his identity, starting to believe that he might be one of the [[final five]] Cylons.

=== Return to the Fleet ===

[[Image:Baltar brig.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Baltar being placed in detention.]]

* Seeking answers to his questions about his identity, Baltar travels with Number Three and [[Cavil]] to the surface of the algae planet in order to visit the [[Temple of Five]]. After killing Cavil and watching the death of Number Three, he is unsuccessful in finding answers, and is captured and returned to ''Galactica'' ([[TRS]]: "[[Rapture]]").
* He attempts to commit suicide and is tortured by President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] and Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] under the influence of an [[interrogation drug]]. While offering no substantial information, Roslin's belief that he played a role in the attack on the Twelve Colonies is strengthened. She and Adama decide to give Baltar a public trial instead of quietly executing him ([[TRS]]: "[[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]").
* Baltar, in an attempt to curry favor with the fleet concerning his trial, secretly publishes a book called "[[My Triumphs, My Mistakes]]". This book causes a labor strike, led by [[Galen Tyrol]], but instead of bringing the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] to a screeching halt, it actually helps Tyrol and President Roslin stop a problem that was beginning to form in the Fleet ([[TRS]]: "[[Dirty Hands]]").
* Before his trial begins, Baltar's lawyer, [[Alan Hughes]], is killed by sabotage, and is replaced by [[Romo Lampkin]]. Security for both Lampkin and Baltar is high, as many people believe fervently that Baltar should not be given a trial at all. Major [[Lee Adama]] is placed in command of this security detail, and eventually becomes Lampkin's aide for the trial ([[TRS]]: "[[The Son Also Rises]]").
*Baltar's trial becomes a frenzied media circus. Lampkin manages to keep mob rule from overwhelming the proceedings, but it is Lee Adama's testimony that ultimately acquits Baltar. The son of William Adama notes many, many abuses of justice, crimes and mistakes committed by himself and other leadership in the Fleet that were ignored or punished lightly. Baltar's only distinction, in comparison, was that he was unlikeable and thus more useful as a scapegoat for the problems of the Fleet that stemmed from colonizing [[New Caprica]].
*With the end of the trial, Baltar finds his acquittal bitter-sweet, with no home, no work, and no allies.
*When the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] jumps into the [[Ionian nebula]], the confusion caused by a power outage allows the homeless Baltar to be secretly carried off by several women who claim they are leading him to his new life ([[TRS]]: "[[Crossroads, Part II]]").

===Cult Leader ===

*The women lead Baltar to an used storage compartment, where he learns that a [[Cult of Baltar|cult]] has arisen around him, likely starting with the publication of his [[My Triumphs, My Mistakes|book]] condemning the perceived suppression of the Fleet's poor. The cult is composed of many young, athletic women and some men. Headed by [[Jeanne]], they view Baltar as a messianic figure and have been building a shrine for him. Baltar initially thinks of them as crazy and wants to have nothing to do with them. When [[Tracey Anne|one of the women]] watches him interact with his [[Messenger Six]], she thinks that he is praying and draws him into a religious discussion. Baltar tells her that [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|Colonial Religion]] is empty and false, and that there is only one [[God (RDM)|true God]]. Captivated by Baltar, she kisses him. His standing among his followers is further increased when he prays for a sick [[Derrick|child]], who miraculously recovers soon after ([[TRS]]: "[[He That Believeth In Me]]").
*To his amazement, Baltar begins to see a [[Messenger Baltar|Messenger version of himself]]. At the same time he begins a relationship with [[Tory Foster]], who is drawn to him due her awakened Cylon nature and Baltar's apparent understanding of it ([[TRS]]: "[[Six of One]]"). The situation with his cult escalates when a [[Sons of Ares|militant religious group]] vandalizes the commune. In retaliation, Baltar and some of his followers disrupt a [[temple]] service and denounce the Colonial gods. President Roslin takes this as an excuse to curtail the cult's religion freedom by forbidding large assemblies. When encountering a Marine trying to enforce this order, Baltar makes a defiant stand, allowing himself to be beaten up in front of his followers. The display ends when [[Lee Adama]] shows up to announce that the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum]] has decided to rescind Roslin's proclamation and restore their freedoms. Following this, Baltar holds a speech telling everyone that he thinks that someone in the universe loves him and that people have to love themselves in order to love others ([[Escape Velocity]]). Over the next weeks, his sermons are broadcast per [[wireless]] throughout the ship and likely the whole Fleet ([[TRS]]: "[[The Road Less Travelled]]", "[[Faith]]").
* When a baseship with [[Cylon Civil War|rebel Cylons]] joins the Fleet, Roslin summons him. She tells Baltar that he has been in her visions and wants him to accompany her to the [[Hybrid]] to find out what they mean. However, when the [[Natalie|rebel leader]] is unexpectedly killed, the Hybrid panics and jumps away. Drawing on his [[Torn|previous experience]] with the Hybrid, Baltar manages to calm it down somewhat. In the following [[Battle of the Resurrection Hub|battle]] to destroy a critical Cylon facility, Baltar is critically wounded when missiles hit the ship while he tries to evangelize to a [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]]. While his wounds are dressed by Roslin Baltar confesses his role in [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|downfall of humanity]]. Roslin initially removes the bandages she applied, letting him bleed out, but decides to save him after all ([[TRS]]: "[[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]]", "[[The Hub]]").
* After [[Number Three]]'s unboxing, the [[Final Four]] are revealed and Tory Foster willingly joins the Cylons. Upon learning this, Baltar claims that he "always subconsciously knew" that she is a Cylon. Later, he is part of the first landing party to set foot on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], being as dismayed at its state as everyone else ([[TRS]]: "[[Revelations]]").
*When Gaeta and Zarek start a coup against Adama and Roslin, Baltar and his cult support Adama and Roslin, working with Galen Tyrol in efforts to retake the ship and protect the two. Baltar is convinced by Roslin to let her use his wireless radio to communicate with the fleet about the mutiny and she is able to make a short broadcast before being jammed. Roslin convinces him to leave with her sure that he is going to be a target of the mutineers and they make their way to the Secondary Storage Airlock where while waiting, Baltar tries to convince Gaeta to stop to no avail. Baltar escapes ''Galactica'' with Roslin to the Cylon baseship and supports Roslin there. He also sleeps with [[Lida|another Six]] and chats with her about his cult saying that while he doesn't like them, he feels responsible for them and decides he has to go back to ''Galactica'' and them after having a nightmare where a firing squad executes Adama. He returns to ''Galactica'' with Roslin once the coup is ended by Adama and his men who retake ''Galactica'' with help from military support from Roslin and the Cylon baseship. Afterwards he and Gaeta have a civil chat about what happened indicating that they have forgiven each other for what they did and when Gaeta makes a statement that he hopes someday people understand who he was, Baltar says he understands who Gaeta was. ([[TRS]]: "[[The Oath]]", "[[Blood on the Scales]]")
*When Caprica-Six apparently has a falling out with Tigh after her failed pregnancy, Baltar runs into her and offers her a home with him again, but she refuses saying that while she's changed he hasn't.
*At the suggestion of Paulla, Baltar tries to get his cult, now numbering in the thousands, representation in the government, but Lee Adama refuses asking him to name one time he acted selflessly. Baltar admits he can't but is disappointed Adama is holding that against his movement before leaving.
*Baltar is among those that attend Adama's speech and call for volunteers to crew ''Galactica'' to rescue Hera Agathon. While many other people including Caprica-Six volunteer, he doesn't although he does seem to almost volunteer but decides not to.
*When his cult evacuates on the last Raptor, Baltar hesitates then decides to stay to help telling Paulla that the cult merely appropriated him and he was never one of them. Baltar is clearly nervous about this decision, but sticks to it. Lee Adama tosses him a gun, clearly happy with his choice.
*During the battle, Baltar is assigned to the reserve team that protects ''Galactica'' alongside Caprica-Six. Caprica-Six is finally proud of him and the two kiss, only to be interrupted by Messenger Six and Baltar who say that they will hold the fate of both races in their hands. Both are shocked that the other can see them.
*During the battle, Baltar fights alongside Caprica-Six and the other marines against several Centurions. Baltar takes out one by himself but gets over-enthusiastic and nearly takes out the returning rescue team too but is stopped by Caprica-Six. Adama tells him he did good, but they are forced to retreat when more Centurions show up.
*Baltar and Caprica-Six end up in a room together with him down to a sidearm and her down to two bullets left in her machine gun. The two are shocked to find Hera there with him and leave carrying her in a fulfillment of the Opera House Prophecy. As they leave, they close the door on Roslin and Athena, never realizing they're there. The two ultimately reach a door and Caprica-Six from her shared vision and Baltar from his vision on Kobol realize they have to go in. The two find themselves in CIC with the Final Five on the balcony just like in the vision. Cavil takes Hera hostage, but Baltar manages to defuses the situation revealing that Messenger Baltar and Six are angels of God who Baltar describes as a force of nature neither good nor evil. Baltar and Tigh convince Cavil to end the war right there with peace with the Five giving resurrection back to Cavil so he and his forces can survive while he lets them take Hera and agrees to stop pursuing them. Cavil accepts the deal and orders his forces to stand down. Baltar later witnesses Tory's death at Tyrol's hands and the breaking of the truce that results in the destruction of Cavil and his forces.
*Later, on the new Earth, Baltar and Caprica-Six watch Hera, and are visited one last time by the Messengers, who reveal that their destiny was always to protect Hera. While God's plan is never over, Messenger Baltar promises that their lives will be a lot less interesting from that point on, and the two disappear for the last time. Baltar and Caprica-Six set off to start a new life together as farmers, using Baltar's knowledge from growing up on a farm on Aerilon.

==Notes==
*There was speculation that Gaius Baltar could be a Cylon himself. However, his presence in the now-infamous "[[The Last Supper]]" picture discounts this, as confirmed by [[Ron D. Moore]]. As of "[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]", all known humanoid Cylons have been accounted for (although "[[No Exit]]" references still another humanoid Cylon, there is no indication given that this is Baltar).
*[[Ron Moore]] has stated in several episode commentaries that when the role of "Gaius Baltar" was originally written in the script, the writing team never intended Baltar to have a "funny" aspect, but James Callis himself decided to play up that aspect of the frantic predicaments Baltar finds himself in during the [[Miniseries]] (which although the writers never anticipated, they enjoyed, and started writing him with that in mind). In series 4, however, Baltar's demeanor becomes noticably more serious.
*While [[Edward James Olmos]] and [[Mary McDonnell]] were hand-picked for their roles, the rest of the characters were cast by audition: among the actors in the running for the role of "Gaius Baltar" was ''[[w:Two and a Half Men|Two and a Half Men]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s [[Wikipedia:Jon Cryer|Jon Cryer]], though the role ultimately went to [[James Callis]]. Callis was suggested by Angela Mancuso, who ran the studio at the time, knew him from the ''[[w:Helen of Troy (TV miniseries)|Helen of Troy]]'' miniseries where he portrayed [[w:Menelaus|Menelaus]].<ref>{{cite_book|last=Bassom|first=David|authorlink=|authorlinkurl=|coauthors=|year=2005|title=[[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion]]|pages=23|editor=ed. Adam "Adama" Newell|publisher=Titan Books|location=|id=ISBN 1-84576-0972}}</ref>
*Baltar currently holds the record for most number of Cylons romantically involved with in the series: six. Four of these are [[Number Six]]es, beginning (and, eventually, ending) with [[Caprica-Six]], [[Gina Inviere]], [[Messenger Six]] and lastly, [[Number Six#Lida|Lida]]. The fifth is [[Number Three (Downloaded copy)|Number Three]]. The sixth is [[Tory Foster]].
*Baltar's first name, Gaius, is taken from [[w:Gaius Julius Caesar|Gaius Julius Caesar]]. Likewise, his father's name is Julius. The character of Baltar derives many characteristics from the Roman emperor which he is named after, most notably, his [[w:hubris|hubris]].
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==References==
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{{succession box|before=(''unknown, eventually [[Marta Shaw]]'')|title=Caprican delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]|after=''(unknown, eventually [[Cowen]])''}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown, position temporarily vacant)''|title=[[Government of the Twelve Colonies|Vice-President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=[[Tom Zarek]]|}}
{{succession box|before=[[Laura Roslin]]|title=[[Government of the Twelve Colonies|President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=[[Tom Zarek]]|}}
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{{Characters}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Baltar, Gaius}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Main Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:People from Aerilon]]

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[[de:Gaius Baltar]]
[[fr:Gaïus Baltar]]

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2011-05-11T02:39:36Z

Garrett4:

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2011-05-10T01:19:10Z

Garrett4: /* One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? */ new section