Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Battle of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-10-26T17:12:40Z

Felix Culpa:

Holy frak. (And that was from the first 30 minutes.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:05, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:You took the words right out of my mouth. Most excellent! --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:45, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
::I know! Holy frakking frak. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:47, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:::My Grandchildrens' childeren will kmow about this episode! --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:03, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Was so good... I am posting my own option.... 100 out of 10. ;-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:39, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

==Losses==
We've said "dozens" or "hundreds", but we should decide on one, because frankly I support "dozens". Nobody died in Pegasus, and on New Caprica it didn't look like "hundreds" died considering that's a big number for these people. So what will it be? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:51, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:For starters, we don't know that there weren't fatalities aboard the ''Pegasus'' (people may have died from hull breaches or whatnot before Adama gave the order to abandon ship). I do agree, however, that it was probably dozens, maybe less than a couple hundred at max (and that's stretching it, IMHO) that died planetside. I would list "Losses currently unknown" until we start getting a fleet population count again, then work our way from there.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 18:10, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:Actually, "unknown number" would work better, since we do not know specifically either way. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 04:45, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

==Which Three is this Three?==

''...Meanwhile, Baltar and [[Caprica Six]] attempt to stop [[D'anna Biers]] from activating a nuclear device. After the Cylons lost control of the ground situation, the majority of the agents left on a [[Heavy Raider]] and left Biers with the responsibility of activating a nuclear device to "clean up"; however, she can't find it.''

How exactly was it detemined that this Three was the [[D'anna Biers]] Three? I would argue that this three was the one that tried to have the "War Heroes" boxed in [[Downloaded]]. D'anna, (assuming she died on Cloud 9, we don't know) was still alive and with the fleet according to the [[Timeline]].

And how did we determine that Three "couldn't find" the nuke? It appears that she made a beeline for the oracle, as presumably the nuke would be located inside the "green zone". [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 00:41, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:Actually, she was named as D'anna by Baltar, which is pretty interesting. Somehow she must have been able to avoid being exposed by Anders for over a year, until the arrival of new resurrection facilities. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:12, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::Look at the "Number Three" article talk page. I posted a section on some research I did to find out which Three it was :p --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 05:59, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:As interesting as this discussion is, it is more relevant for the [[Exodus, Part II]] or [[Number Three]] page rather than the page for the battle. I'm cutting down the last paragraph about this sequence for the same reason. My rationale: once the civilian ships depart, once the basestars are destroyed/debilitated, once ''Galactica'' is away, a potential squabble between Baltar and whichever Cylons happen to remain on the surface matters very little. There is very limited militarily decisive action; it ought not get more than a cursory review in a battle summary, especially with as much as we must assume to make the description accurate. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 11:40, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:I concur with Keithustrus. Battle pages are not for episode or character narratives. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:49, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

==Atmospheric Heating Effects==

Of course it looked cool, but I am not really sure why the underside of Galactica would have been superheated as it descended toward New Caprica City the way it was protrayed in the episode. Such superheating is not the result of free-falling through the atmosphere, but actually the result of friction with the atmosphere due to extreme velocity. Which is precisely why skydivers do not burn up after jumping out of an airplane but space craft deorbiting (traveling initially at about 5 miles per second coming from low Earth orbit as an example) do. Galactica jumped into the atmosphere over New Caprica City, it did not (strictly speaking) reenter the atmosphere. It is possible, of course, that any velocity Galactica had prior to jumping was imparted to or else retained by Galactica after the jump. However, one might be pardoned for supposing that any such velocity would have been along the ship's main bow-to-stern axis (though this is not necessarily true), and not stright along the free fall axis the ship was clearly heating up on (i.e., from dorsal to ventral side). I would also point out that Galactica did not appear to be traveling at a sufficient speed in its fall to cause superheating, though of course this may be the subject of debate. Anyway, just a thought. The dramatic effect more than made up for any possible technical inaccuracy. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 19:08, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:That's a good technical error to add to one of the science articles, if the general article. ''Galactica'' would have had to be moving much faster than the rate she was falling. The Space Shuttle Orbiter superheats at less than 17,000 MPH as it reenters, and its much higher. Science be damned, though--it was thoroughly badass. :)--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:42, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::Yeah, can you give me a suggestion as to which article(s) to bring this up in? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 22:59, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::But don't forget, that data is based on the chemical makeup and density of our own atmosphere. Its possible that New Caprica's atmosphere is quite a bit different than Earth's, even though it is still inhabitable. And for all we know, FTL travel causes the surface of a vessel to heat up. This is all hypothetical, but its justification for the appearance of the atmospheric heating.

:::Yes, but we have to assume that New Caprica's atmospheric makeup is at least somewhat similar to Earth normal (which carries the underlying assumption that the Colonials are used to something along those lines), or else we would notice some sort of profound difference, such as a difference in rate of combustion, sound transmission, or any number of other things. I just do not think we have any reason to believe New Caprica is any different (atmosphericaly) from any Terran-type planet. (Probably does not hurt that they actually film the episodes on Earth. ;-) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 22:59, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::::That's a good bit of study but there is another very big factor and that is the sheer size of the Galactica. Nothing that size has ever been witnessed to enter Earth's atmosphere and the incredible mass of it adds a multiplier. What we are seeing is a large release of energy and energy is force through a given distance and force is mass and exceleration, therefore energy = mass x acceleration x change in distance or = mass x velocity squared. Those are 3 equal parameters to energy. We know that the space shuttle superheats at 17,000 mph or thereabouts and lets assume that the gravity of New Caprica is equal to the gravity of Earth, that is g = 9.8 m/s^2. Let's also assume that the distance that they dropped was 90,000 m - a guess from the dialog but really it's just a guess but what seems a theorical large enough distance for the depicted sequence of events to have occurred. Given these parameters, if the Galactica was 654,820 times larger than the space shuttle, then it would release the same amount of energy. (I could bore you with the math but I don't think that is necessary. Ya'll get the idea.) However, I am certainly willing to bet that the Galactica is many million times larger than the Space Shuttle and therefore would release many times more energy which would account for the same superheating effect seen on screen, though objects falling fair slower than the space shuttle, and of much less size cause the same superheating effect. Case in point, the Mercury-Redstone 3 carrying Alan Sheppard to be the 1st American in space only traveled to less than 10,000 MPH (it didn't reach orbital speeds) and was 1/2000 times the size of the space shuttle and it returned superheated. There was this super-rich dude (sorry, I can't remember his name. I'll come back later with a site but right now I can't remember the dudes name.) who recently did a superhigh jump from .... I think it was 80,000 feet and he had to wear heat shielding to protect himself. Again, much smaller object and starting from a relative standstill getting superheated. Normal parachute jumpers only jump from a few hundred to a few thousand feet but no more. You gotta face it! The Galactica is one big ole vessel and it had to jump from a very high altitude to pull off that stunt and it doesn't move through atmo without consequences.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 23:55, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Actually, I ran the math again (1st time I did it practically in my head so it was a little esque) and if I say that the Galactica is 100,000 times larger than the space shuttle dropped at the same parameters, I get 15,000 times as much energy released. Therefore, 1 million times as large produces 150,000 times as much energy. This is taking the Galactica starting at a rest stop (no speed relative to New Caprica) when it initially jumped into the atmosphere. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:44, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::I think you are missing the point here: the size of the object is not the issue, it is the speed at which it is traveling. Yes, Galactica has orders of magnitude more potential energy than the Space Shuttle reentering, but most of that energy would be released upon impact with the ground, not as a result of atmospheric friction. And I am not contending that Galactica would not have heated to some degree because of free-fall acceleration: it clearly would. (As indeed spacecraft do upon launch, just not nearly to the degree they do upon reentry where they have to use drag to *entirely* eliminate their orbital velocity.) Whether it would heat it to that degree or cause that level of damage is another question entirely. And there simply is no question that Galactica was traveling anywhere near 17,500 mile per hour or even the 10,000 miles per hour of a suborbital Alan Shepard-type loft. Those speeds are blindingly fast, and Galactica simply was not going that fast based on the video evidence. I lack the math physics to prove it, but I also suspect Galactica's terminal velocity within an atmosphere would also be far, far under the figures necessary to cause deorbit-type heating. Just my two cents. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:12, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Battle of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-10-26T03:59:34Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Exodus, Part II/Archive 1

2006-10-26T03:52:49Z

Felix Culpa:

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0610/01/index.htm
Click on this link and scroll down to see scenes from the Exodus episodes. My favorite is the last one at the bottom which shows Zarek and Roslin plsticuffed together. Hopefully they'll start to get along soon. --ltcrashdown October 3rd, 2006

== My Prediction ==

And it shouldn't be a big surprise, but I have to state it for the record:

Battlestar ''Pegasus'' makes its last appearance today. I think it will be used to ram a basestar or two to save ''Galactica'', which puts up a good fight but is getting outmatched.
My prediction doesn't come from anything but from the gut, but it should be interesting if it comes true. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:53, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'm hoping that it doesnt get destroyed, seeing as that would kill Lee Adama and far too many other people - if this happened, people would switch off. I'm predicting that it'll save the day at the last second. If you think about it, Lee Adama was ordered to stay behind with the fleet and continue the search for earth. I'm betting that he does the usual thing of going against orders, jumping back anyway at the last second and launches a nuke or two at a basestar.

--[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 17:37, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Since when does people's opinions become spoiler text? :P --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:05, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

:Spoiler policy is suspended on talk, but sometimes people get bummed to read them here, so it's a courtesy. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:58, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

YES! Nailed it! Nailed it! Hail to the king, baby! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:47, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

: Hallowed are the Ori... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 00:06, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:Wow, Spence. Calling the second one was impressive. --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 09:55, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:Damn, Spence. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:13, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:Can you please email me this saturdays winning lottery numbers. Thanks. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:22, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::I think I burned all my karma with that one. Might score you a deal on a used Honda, though. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:18, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

== Is this a clue? ==

When Starbuck gets back to Galactica with the kid, and the supposed mother sees it, and latches on, she says either "Gods bless you" or "GOD bless you", and after watching it about 5 times on my TiVo, I'm leaning towards GOD, singular, and perhaps a clue that this lady is not who she claims. I mean, if that really is a hybrid, then it would be valuable enough to pull such a move just to get it out of Colonial hands.

Also, if it weren't for horrible interior design, I'd rather Galactica had been boned, and they all just moved into Pegasus and renamed it Galactia-A or something. If it weren't for the lame bridge, it'd be a much better ship.

: The assumption is reasonable -- however, I believe it is extremely likely that the woman is who she claims to be. Also, given the horrible success rate at Cylon farms, it is likely that Kacey was indeed a ruse to get Thrace to love Conoy. Once Conoy had Thrace's love, their love would lead to the next step. As for the "God" versus "Gods" thing.... also, it's been indicated that the Colonials have varying faiths, and some don't necessarily believe in the Sacred Scrolls, Pythia and all that jazz. Also, it wouldn't be ''Battlestar Galactica'' without ''Galactica''... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 00:01, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::Not to mention that you have to give Tyrol ''something'' to do on the flightline. Why, if he were on the ''Pegasus'', unable to go spastic about not holding the Vipers together with bubblegum and baling wire, and just could wish another one up from the manufacturing plants aboard the newer ship, who knows how many kids he and Cally might end up with by the time they get to Earth? ^_^--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 01:05, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Tyrol now has a lot more Vipers and Raptors to look after. Poor Cally.....--[[User:Barry|Barry]] 07:44, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:I thought your observation was interesting so I pulled up the episode again and watched that part. Kasey's new mother distinctly says "gods" with a hard, unmistakable "s". [[User:Silsor|Silsor]] 00:24, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:Plus, why would they introduce a new Cylon so casually? The recent Cylons (Biers, Simon, Cavil) each had complex introductions. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 01:17, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

::Totally said "gods"...first time I heard it...absolutly positive.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:18, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Was the actress her real mum, did you see how the kids face lit up smiling when she sees her? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:24, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

== Screencaps Posted ==

[[:md:User:Shane/gallery|Here]]. Enjoy. I surely did. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 03:51, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:You misspelt "atmosphere" in a couple of them --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:44, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:I like your screengrabs! Holy cow -- what a great episode; especially the part where Galactica jumps in low and provides that "firing solution" for the team. There was even a cool easter egg -- Did anyone else notice the "Pan Am" logo on the bottom of one of the ships leaving New Caprica? --[[User:Scooper|Scooper]] 10:28, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::"Easter egg?" Sounds like another case of the Craftsman tool lockers. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 11:54, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::That's probably the [[Pan Galactic]] ship, its been in the fleet all the way back to the Miniseries. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:36, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::The logo is indeed nearly the same, but the name seems to be different. It has more than 5 letters. Maybe "Pan Gal" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:05, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

== Where does this question go? ==

Earlier today, I posted a question in the Questions section about why the DRADIS displays on both battlestars were inexplicably clear of the nebula's interference, but it was deleted. Is there a more appropriate place for it? --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 21:00, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

:Hi, BR. That's a valid question. Before the Cylon fleet discovered New Caprica, Dualla was commenting how hard it was to see anything in the nebula, and they were in orbit. Now, in this episode, both sides appeared to be using DRADIS without issue from the interference. Me senses a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|continuity error]]. You can re-add the question here (note my winded explanation) or add to the continuities article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:40, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

: A bit annoying to have a question posted and suddenly deleted. Might I suggest deleting other editor's questions and comments be expressly prohibited? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 02:47, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

::Reaching a concenus and corlaberation is the wiki's primary goal. Sometimes authros disagree, so usually once something is removed and someone things it should say, bring it up on the talk page is the proper course of action to dicuss the matter further. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 03:23, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

== Galactica's atmospheric insertion ==

I haven't been able to double check but I'm pretty sure Helo read off their altitude as "900,000." Now IIRC, the Colonials use metric so that would be meters. In other words, they were 600 miles off the deck. So I'm pretty sure I misheard that.

But even factoring for editing and such, I'm pretty sure they took some dramatic lisence with the freefall time.

RDM said they were going to try to keep the physics real, and this is peanut stuff.

<math>s=v_{i}t+\frac{at^{2}}{2}</math>
<math>v_i=0</math> because theyare starting from rest, so freefall time given by <math>\sqrt{\frac{2s}{a}}=t</math>

If that does give you enough time to for your scene, set the intial hight higher.
Uh... why isn't my math working?

: I'll check on that... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:27, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:You're assuming they came in with no initial velocity, but as we've seen with various Raptor scenes, velocity is carried through a jump. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:30, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

::It was Captain Kelly, and he reads their altitude as "99,000 and falling like a rock". That's roughly 61 and a half miles up, which is ''frakking'' high. Seems a little ''too'' high, don't you think? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:56, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Even in the metric world, aviation uses feet for altitude. 99k feet would be 30km, or 18-ish miles, which would fit the bill rather nicely, given the size of the Galactica. --[[User:Ijdod|Ijdod]] 15:34, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:We've also seen pressure gauges in PSI (pounds per square inch). So it isn't all metric. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:31, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
::I was going to mention that, but I was hungry and I forgot :( 99k feet was what I took it to mean when I heard it initially. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 15:51, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:I'm Thinking that a ship of that size and mass could even survive all of the forces at work from a fall like that, what is it almost a Km and a haft long and a haft a Km wide. It's mass must in the 5 to 10,000,000 metric tons. I can'y even think of the rate in witch it was falling. --[[Usr:Bowersj8|Bowersj8]] 5:29, 22 October 2006 (EDT)
::It managed to survive the forces at work when a nuclear weapon detonated pretty damn close to it (Miniseries). Completely different sorts of forces, of course, but makes the point that it's a tough ship. --[[User:Barry|Barry]] 09:54, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Not just "pretty damn close." The nuclear detonation in the miniseries was a direct hit. Galactica is one ''hell'' of a tough boat. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 15:32, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Dont forget, explosions in the vacuum of space are not as devastating as they are in the atmosphere, since they lack a medium (ie: air) to properly carry the shockwave. Of course, Galactica remains a tough egg to crack nonetheless ^_^ --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 17:13, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Well hey, if you're fighting someone like the Cylons, you'd wanna be in something damned near unbreakable. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:05, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::In the words of RDM (Exodus, Pt. II Podcast) "My logic was, look, if Galactica can take a hit from a nuke and keep on movin', which we established in the Miniseries. If it can take a nuke, and still be okay on some level, this is a tough motherfucking machine." --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:02, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
I don't give a crap about the math of it, it was FRAKKING AWESOME! Seriously, that was insane. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:52, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
:I think people are getting a little too worked up mathematically about a scene which is prety moving in that the crew of Galactica risked everything in order to help save everyone down on New Caprica. It was a very daring manouver which may well have resulted in slamming right into the ground with the FTL's failing. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 10:00, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::They weren't just risking their own lives, either. The force of an impact like that would have probably wiped out the entire city. They quite literally risked ''everything.'' --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 15:32, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Yeah, you've gotta think about how big the Galactica is. It'd be like an asteroid! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:23, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

::::Nonetheless, the sheer awesomeness of that scene outranks the slightly screwed physics of maths of it all. It was awesome to watch, some suspension of disbelief isn't too much to ask I reckon ^_^ --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 23:05, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:::::As a proud Southerner, I felt the need to correct your spelling of "reckon." Don't take it personally. :D --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 10:07, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::::::My first language is french, and I stand proudly by my typoes ;) --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 17:11, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Quick poll... did anybody actually see that jump coming? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 01:35, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:I figured Galactica might do some atmospheric ops, but other than that, no. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:10, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::Saw the shot in the teaser at the start, and thought that they possibly went into an extremely low orbit to support the evacuation, but jumping INTO the atmosphere, launching ''Vipers'' and then jumping out......didn't see it coming at all --[[User:Barry|Barry]] 19:40, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

== Guest stars ==

Bodie Olmos appeared in the episode in the scene where Galactica dropped into the atmosphere. He mentioned a pilot called Red Wing. Anyone know the actor's name? Neither actor was listed in the credits for some reason.

I was also wondering about Hera and Kacey's real mother. Any clue about either of them?

--[[User:123home123|123home123]] 22:16, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

----
Nicki Clyne (as Cally Tyrol) was listed in the credits, but she did not seem to appear (unless I miss it). Deleted scene? [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 22:38, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:She's on the hangar deck at the ed :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 01:29, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::Yeah. I didn't notice her first time but the second time, there she was, smiling away :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:26, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

== Isn't Tom Zarek vice-president? ==

If I recall correctly, Tom Zarek was elected as Baltar's vice-president. Now that Baltar has departed for parts unknown, wouldn't Zarek ascend to the presidency? How can Roslin legally lay claim to the presidency? Shouldn't Zarek be heading up to Colonial One? [[User:Spidey3|Spidey3]] 11:12, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

:Zarek said he resigned when the Cylons set up Baltar's puppet government. It would take a lawyer and a precise knowledge of Colonial law to determine if he still has a claim to the office --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:19, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::I think Zarek knew who was in charge at that exact moment. It's hard to challenge for leadership in the middle of a fight. It's hard to change the course of a ship in mid-stream. There's nothing to say that Zarek won't challenge for the presidency in later episodes, but at that exact moment, I think that the only thing he was thinking about was getting off the planet along with everybody else. And I do speculate that maybe he was thinking that he was on the wrong side of the coin over the whole Baltar election and maybe has a new-found fondness for Laura Roslin from the evidence of the firing squad and the evacuation. The man is pretty pragmatic at times. It will be interesting to see which way their relationship turns over the coming episodes.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 17:32, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

:::There's also the matter of association. While Zarek can clearly show that he did not collaborate with the Cylons by way of his incarceration, it is very likely that Zarek (a man that plays the political game almost as well as Roslin) wants little to do with inheriting the administration of a despised president. Only Roslin, the past president, will stand an immediate chance to assume the interim role once more with support from the populace. Based on his behavior, it seems that Zarek, once Roslin's adversary, appears to accept Roslin far more than in the past, even with concern for her life. He may choose to be her vice president, and she might accept it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:55, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::::I think Zarek plays the political game quite a bit better than Roslin. He simply does not have as good a position as she does coming out of all of this. I agree wholeheartedly with this analysis. Roslin will, from a purely popular standpoint, have a much better position than Zarek going into whatever reorganization the fleet and civilian population will undergo in the aftermath of the great escape. Indeed, Adama is very clearly (for the present moment) viewed as something of a messiah, and I suspect any support Adama cares to throw into the presidency will go directly to Roslin. Zarek knows what time it is, and I suspect that he will quietly accept the vice-presidency. A cynical man might even be pardoned for supposing that Zarek foresaw this and planned accordingly. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 22:52, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

==Quite the episode==
Y'know, I realized, this episode's tossed up a lot about the show. We started off with one half-crewed battlestar, then grew to two half-crewed battlestars, and now we're down to one fully-crewed battlestar. Plus, Ellen was killed, Starbuck's been through hell, and a good 3/4 of the fleet has gone through horrible events at the hands of the Cylons. I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing what our beloved RDM does with the series. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:11, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:Also, this epsiode has dethroned Downloaded as my favorite episode of BSG. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:48, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::This wasn't just my favourite episode of BSG, it was my favourite episode of '''''anything'''''. Ever. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 01:33, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

==Atmospheric Heating Effects==

Of course it looked cool, but I am not really sure why the underside of Galactica would have been superheated as it descended toward New Caprica City the way it was protrayed in the episode. Such superheating is not the result of free-falling through the atmosphere, but actually the result of friction with the atmosphere due to extreme velocity. Which is precisely why skydivers do not burn up after jumping out of an airplane but space craft deorbiting (traveling initially at about 5 miles per second coming from low Earth orbit as an example) do. Galactica jumped into the atmosphere over New Caprica City, it did not (strictly speaking) reenter the atmosphere. It is possible, of course, that any velocity Galactica had prior to jumping was imparted to or else retained by Galactica after the jump. However, one might be pardoned for supposing that any such velocity would have been along the ship's main bow-to-stern axis (though this is not necessarily true), and not stright along the free fall axis the ship was clearly heating up on (i.e., from dorsal-to-ventral axis). I would also point out that Galactica did not appear to be traveling at a sufficient speed in its fall to cause superheating, though of course this may be the subject of debate. Anyway, just a thought. The dramatic effect more than made up for any possible technical inaccuracy, and I agree woth those who think this is the best episode on the new series yet. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 19:13, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Exodus, Part II/Archive 1

2006-10-26T00:13:51Z

Felix Culpa:

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0610/01/index.htm
Click on this link and scroll down to see scenes from the Exodus episodes. My favorite is the last one at the bottom which shows Zarek and Roslin plsticuffed together. Hopefully they'll start to get along soon. --ltcrashdown October 3rd, 2006

== My Prediction ==

And it shouldn't be a big surprise, but I have to state it for the record:

Battlestar ''Pegasus'' makes its last appearance today. I think it will be used to ram a basestar or two to save ''Galactica'', which puts up a good fight but is getting outmatched.
My prediction doesn't come from anything but from the gut, but it should be interesting if it comes true. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:53, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'm hoping that it doesnt get destroyed, seeing as that would kill Lee Adama and far too many other people - if this happened, people would switch off. I'm predicting that it'll save the day at the last second. If you think about it, Lee Adama was ordered to stay behind with the fleet and continue the search for earth. I'm betting that he does the usual thing of going against orders, jumping back anyway at the last second and launches a nuke or two at a basestar.

--[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 17:37, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Since when does people's opinions become spoiler text? :P --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:05, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

:Spoiler policy is suspended on talk, but sometimes people get bummed to read them here, so it's a courtesy. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:58, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

YES! Nailed it! Nailed it! Hail to the king, baby! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:47, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

: Hallowed are the Ori... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 00:06, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:Wow, Spence. Calling the second one was impressive. --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 09:55, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:Damn, Spence. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:13, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:Can you please email me this saturdays winning lottery numbers. Thanks. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:22, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

== Is this a clue? ==

When Starbuck gets back to Galactica with the kid, and the supposed mother sees it, and latches on, she says either "Gods bless you" or "GOD bless you", and after watching it about 5 times on my TiVo, I'm leaning towards GOD, singular, and perhaps a clue that this lady is not who she claims. I mean, if that really is a hybrid, then it would be valuable enough to pull such a move just to get it out of Colonial hands.

Also, if it weren't for horrible interior design, I'd rather Galactica had been boned, and they all just moved into Pegasus and renamed it Galactia-A or something. If it weren't for the lame bridge, it'd be a much better ship.

: The assumption is reasonable -- however, I believe it is extremely likely that the woman is who she claims to be. Also, given the horrible success rate at Cylon farms, it is likely that Kacey was indeed a ruse to get Thrace to love Conoy. Once Conoy had Thrace's love, their love would lead to the next step. As for the "God" versus "Gods" thing.... also, it's been indicated that the Colonials have varying faiths, and some don't necessarily believe in the Sacred Scrolls, Pythia and all that jazz. Also, it wouldn't be ''Battlestar Galactica'' without ''Galactica''... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 00:01, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::Not to mention that you have to give Tyrol ''something'' to do on the flightline. Why, if he were on the ''Pegasus'', unable to go spastic about not holding the Vipers together with bubblegum and baling wire, and just could wish another one up from the manufacturing plants aboard the newer ship, who knows how many kids he and Cally might end up with by the time they get to Earth? ^_^--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 01:05, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Tyrol now has a lot more Vipers and Raptors to look after. Poor Cally.....--[[User:Barry|Barry]] 07:44, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:I thought your observation was interesting so I pulled up the episode again and watched that part. Kasey's new mother distinctly says "gods" with a hard, unmistakable "s". [[User:Silsor|Silsor]] 00:24, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:Plus, why would they introduce a new Cylon so casually? The recent Cylons (Biers, Simon, Cavil) each had complex introductions. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 01:17, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

::Totally said "gods"...first time I heard it...absolutly positive.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:18, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Was the actress her real mum, did you see how the kids face lit up smiling when she sees her? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:24, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

== Screencaps Posted ==

[[:md:User:Shane/gallery|Here]]. Enjoy. I surely did. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 03:51, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:You misspelt "atmosphere" in a couple of them --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:44, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:I like your screengrabs! Holy cow -- what a great episode; especially the part where Galactica jumps in low and provides that "firing solution" for the team. There was even a cool easter egg -- Did anyone else notice the "Pan Am" logo on the bottom of one of the ships leaving New Caprica? --[[User:Scooper|Scooper]] 10:28, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::"Easter egg?" Sounds like another case of the Craftsman tool lockers. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 11:54, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::That's probably the [[Pan Galactic]] ship, its been in the fleet all the way back to the Miniseries. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:36, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::The logo is indeed nearly the same, but the name seems to be different. It has more than 5 letters. Maybe "Pan Gal" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:05, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

== Where does this question go? ==

Earlier today, I posted a question in the Questions section about why the DRADIS displays on both battlestars were inexplicably clear of the nebula's interference, but it was deleted. Is there a more appropriate place for it? --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 21:00, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

:Hi, BR. That's a valid question. Before the Cylon fleet discovered New Caprica, Dualla was commenting how hard it was to see anything in the nebula, and they were in orbit. Now, in this episode, both sides appeared to be using DRADIS without issue from the interference. Me senses a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|continuity error]]. You can re-add the question here (note my winded explanation) or add to the continuities article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:40, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

: A bit annoying to have a question posted and suddenly deleted. Might I suggest deleting other editor's questions and comments be expressly prohibited? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 02:47, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

::Reaching a concenus and corlaberation is the wiki's primary goal. Sometimes authros disagree, so usually once something is removed and someone things it should say, bring it up on the talk page is the proper course of action to dicuss the matter further. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 03:23, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

== Galactica's atmospheric insertion ==

I haven't been able to double check but I'm pretty sure Helo read off their altitude as "900,000." Now IIRC, the Colonials use metric so that would be meters. In other words, they were 600 miles off the deck. So I'm pretty sure I misheard that.

But even factoring for editing and such, I'm pretty sure they took some dramatic lisence with the freefall time.

RDM said they were going to try to keep the physics real, and this is peanut stuff.

<math>s=v_{i}t+\frac{at^{2}}{2}</math>
<math>v_i=0</math> because theyare starting from rest, so freefall time given by <math>\sqrt{\frac{2s}{a}}=t</math>

If that does give you enough time to for your scene, set the intial hight higher.
Uh... why isn't my math working?

: I'll check on that... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:27, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:You're assuming they came in with no initial velocity, but as we've seen with various Raptor scenes, velocity is carried through a jump. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:30, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

::It was Captain Kelly, and he reads their altitude as "99,000 and falling like a rock". That's roughly 61 and a half miles up, which is ''frakking'' high. Seems a little ''too'' high, don't you think? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:56, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Even in the metric world, aviation uses feet for altitude. 99k feet would be 30km, or 18-ish miles, which would fit the bill rather nicely, given the size of the Galactica. --[[User:Ijdod|Ijdod]] 15:34, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:We've also seen pressure gauges in PSI (pounds per square inch). So it isn't all metric. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:31, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
::I was going to mention that, but I was hungry and I forgot :( 99k feet was what I took it to mean when I heard it initially. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 15:51, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

:I'm Thinking that a ship of that size and mass could even survive all of the forces at work from a fall like that, what is it almost a Km and a haft long and a haft a Km wide. It's mass must in the 5 to 10,000,000 metric tons. I can'y even think of the rate in witch it was falling. --[[Usr:Bowersj8|Bowersj8]] 5:29, 22 October 2006 (EDT)
::It managed to survive the forces at work when a nuclear weapon detonated pretty damn close to it (Miniseries). Completely different sorts of forces, of course, but makes the point that it's a tough ship. --[[User:Barry|Barry]] 09:54, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Not just "pretty damn close." The nuclear detonation in the miniseries was a direct hit. Galactica is one ''hell'' of a tough boat. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 15:32, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Dont forget, explosions in the vacuum of space are not as devastating as they are in the atmosphere, since they lack a medium (ie: air) to properly carry the shockwave. Of course, Galactica remains a tough egg to crack nonetheless ^_^ --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 17:13, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Well hey, if you're fighting someone like the Cylons, you'd wanna be in something damned near unbreakable. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:05, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::In the words of RDM (Exodus, Pt. II Podcast) "My logic was, look, if Galactica can take a hit from a nuke and keep on movin', which we established in the Miniseries. If it can take a nuke, and still be okay on some level, this is a tough motherfucking machine." --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:02, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
I don't give a crap about the math of it, it was FRAKKING AWESOME! Seriously, that was insane. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:52, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
:I think people are getting a little too worked up mathematically about a scene which is prety moving in that the crew of Galactica risked everything in order to help save everyone down on New Caprica. It was a very daring manouver which may well have resulted in slamming right into the ground with the FTL's failing. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 10:00, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::They weren't just risking their own lives, either. The force of an impact like that would have probably wiped out the entire city. They quite literally risked ''everything.'' --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 15:32, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Yeah, you've gotta think about how big the Galactica is. It'd be like an asteroid! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:23, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

::::Nonetheless, the sheer awesomeness of that scene outranks the slightly screwed physics of maths of it all. It was awesome to watch, some suspension of disbelief isn't too much to ask I reckon ^_^ --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 23:05, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:::::As a proud Southerner, I felt the need to correct your spelling of "reckon." Don't take it personally. :D --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 10:07, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::::::My first language is french, and I stand proudly by my typoes ;) --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 17:11, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

Quick poll... did anybody actually see that jump coming? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 01:35, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:I figured Galactica might do some atmospheric ops, but other than that, no. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:10, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

== Guest stars ==

Bodie Olmos appeared in the episode in the scene where Galactica dropped into the atmosphere. He mentioned a pilot called Red Wing. Anyone know the actor's name? Neither actor was listed in the credits for some reason.

I was also wondering about Hera and Kacey's real mother. Any clue about either of them?

--[[User:123home123|123home123]] 22:16, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

----
Nicki Clyne (as Cally Tyrol) was listed in the credits, but she did not seem to appear (unless I miss it). Deleted scene? [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 22:38, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:She's on the hangar deck at the ed :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 01:29, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::Yeah. I didn't notice her first time but the second time, there she was, smiling away :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:26, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

== Isn't Tom Zarek vice-president? ==

If I recall correctly, Tom Zarek was elected as Baltar's vice-president. Now that Baltar has departed for parts unknown, wouldn't Zarek ascend to the presidency? How can Roslin legally lay claim to the presidency? Shouldn't Zarek be heading up to Colonial One? [[User:Spidey3|Spidey3]] 11:12, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

:Zarek said he resigned when the Cylons set up Baltar's puppet government. It would take a lawyer and a precise knowledge of Colonial law to determine if he still has a claim to the office --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:19, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::I think Zarek knew who was in charge at that exact moment. It's hard to challenge for leadership in the middle of a fight. It's hard to change the course of a ship in mid-stream. There's nothing to say that Zarek won't challenge for the presidency in later episodes, but at that exact moment, I think that the only thing he was thinking about was getting off the planet along with everybody else. And I do speculate that maybe he was thinking that he was on the wrong side of the coin over the whole Baltar election and maybe has a new-found fondness for Laura Roslin from the evidence of the firing squad and the evacuation. The man is pretty pragmatic at times. It will be interesting to see which way their relationship turns over the coming episodes.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 17:32, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

:::There's also the matter of association. While Zarek can clearly show that he did not collaborate with the Cylons by way of his incarceration, it is very likely that Zarek (a man that plays the political game almost as well as Roslin) wants little to do with inheriting the administration of a despised president. Only Roslin, the past president, will stand an immediate chance to assume the interim role once more with support from the populace. Based on his behavior, it seems that Zarek, once Roslin's adversary, appears to accept Roslin far more than in the past, even with concern for her life. He may choose to be her vice president, and she might accept it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:55, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

==Quite the episode==
Y'know, I realized, this episode's tossed up a lot about the show. We started off with one half-crewed battlestar, then grew to two half-crewed battlestars, and now we're down to one fully-crewed battlestar. Plus, Ellen was killed, Starbuck's been through hell, and a good 3/4 of the fleet has gone through horrible events at the hands of the Cylons. I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing what our beloved RDM does with the series. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:11, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:Also, this epsiode has dethroned Downloaded as my favorite episode of BSG. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:48, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::This wasn't just my favourite episode of BSG, it was my favourite episode of '''''anything'''''. Ever. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 01:33, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

==Atmospheric Heating Effects==

Of course it looked cool, but I am not really sure why the underside of Galactica would have been superheated as it descended toward New Caprica City the way it was protrayed in the episode. Such superheating is not the result of free-falling through the atmosphere, but actually the result of friction with the atmosphere due to extreme velocity. Which is precisely why skydivers do not burn up after jumping out of an airplane but space craft deorbiting (traveling initially at about 5 miles per second coming from low Earth orbit as an example) do. Galactica jumped into the atmosphere over New Caprica City, it did not (strictly speaking) reenter the atmosphere. It is possible, of course, that any velocity Galactica had prior to jumping was imparted to or else retained by Galactica after the jump. However, one might be pardoned for supposing that any such velocity would have been along the ship's main bow-to-stern axis (though this is not necessarily true), and not stright along the free fall axis the ship was clearly heating up on (i.e., from dorsal-to-ventral axis). I would also point out that Galactica did not appear to be traveling at a sufficient speed in its fall to cause superheating, though of course this may be the subject of debate. Anyway, just a thought. The dramatic effect more than made up for any possible technical inaccuracy, and I agree woth those who think this is the best episode on the new series yet. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 19:13, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Battle of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-10-26T00:09:28Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Battle of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-10-26T00:08:54Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2006-10-20T22:52:48Z

Felix Culpa:

== Categories ==
This page doesn't have any categories. I don't wish to read the spoiler stuff, but if somebody could kindly sort it I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, having stumbled into some spoiler-ish discussion on a talk page, I believe that categories on this page might end up being a spoiler themselves. I guess we can put categories on this once the cat is out of the proverbial bag. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:: We'll find out tonight, I guess. I'm looking forward to it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Article name ==

I believe it should be Cavil, not Brother Cavil, same as it's Cally, not Specialist Cally.
:Yep. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon? ==

Just from speculation based on the 'not at any of the cylon meetings' line, which is so similar to Six's line.

Also if he is a cylon he could be 'Number 1,' as that so far the lower the number the higher the age of the cylon. Perhaps that makes him the 'leader', that is, if cylon's have leaders in their 'society based on unity'.

Just a guess--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:12, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I doubt he is Number 1. Plus, as people keep on forgetting, Cylons only ''appear'' to age -- they don't actually grow up from infancy like humans do. They're made as old as they look (or as young as they look). Period. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Number 12, thus sinking the whole "model number sorted by age" thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::I agree, though I'll take it a step further and say that he is likely Number 12, and likely not Number 1. I think either we have not seen Number 1 yet in any form...or else Number 1 has been there from the beginning, and will be a big surprise for us. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:52, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Do we know if both discovered models were named Cavil? Because that makes me suspicious that their discovery together wouldn't be accidental. And especially with how in agreement they were even after being separately for months (presumably). I don't trust their words, especially now that the Colony was subjugated. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 12:42, 13 March 2006 (CST)

:::As far as I know, there's no on screen evidence of Caprica Cavil being called Cavil directly. We just call him "Caprica Cavil" for the sake of discerning the two different copies of that model, since we only know that model by Cavil. Hope that isn't as confusing as it reads... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:09, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Cavil and Cylon Aging ==
Regardless of whether or not the claim about preaching longer than Tyrol has been "sucking down oxygen" is correct, Cavil's apparent age (approximately 70, going by Dean Stockwell's real age) gives us some hints about the maturation of Humano-Cylons. It would be very safe to assume that the Cylons haven't been at this for a whole 70 years--otherwise, agents would probably have been introduced into Colonial society during the ''first'' war, instead of waiting for the second, and Baltar and Adama and every other survivor wouldn't have been surprised by the fact that they "look like us." A Humano-Cylon body, pre-download, seems to be either a) generated from scratch and resembling a particular age the moment it's ready (an instant twenty-something Sharon, early thirties Six, and late sixties/early seventies Cavil), or b) Cylon genes can be temporarily tweaked to accelerate an aging process that is usually human normal. Either way, the Cylons don't seem to spend 20-plus years generating a new body. Master geneticists that they are, why would they have to wait? -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:28, 18 March 2006 (EST).

:I thought (a) was the clear implication of "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Downloaded" - new Cylon bodies come pre-aged. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:21, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::Those technically weren't new bodies. They are copies, not clones, remember? A "new" body is exactly duplicated from an old one. By definition all will be the same age. So any aging would take place simultaneously across the whole model. Also, Dean Stockwell is ~70 but Cavil can be younger.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:11, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::Are you suggesting there's a stock supply of uninhabited Cylon bodies all aging simultaneously, a la Evangelion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:54, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::::Er, yes. That is what the Resurrection Ship (and whatever they have on their homeworld) is. My point is that when they make a new uninhabited body it's A Copy, Not A Clone, and thus the same age as the body it was copied from.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:41, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::::Every body in a Cylon model is the same. They are all twins, none is a clone of another. They are made in the resurrection Ship, that was visually implied by the whole stack of Sixes. The Cavils themeselves are proof that they are made the age they look. There are Cavils in pods looking exactly like they do. The "longer than.." comment was needed, he wouldn't say "I've been preaching for two years, since I'm a Cylon.." --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006

I removed the statement claiming that the humanoid cylons possibly came into existence thirty years prior to the time period in the show was contradicted by other evidence. It misunderstood the point of the previous statement (which I originally submitted), which does not argue that the infiltration of the colonies began that far back. It only suggests that the humanoid cylons came into being thirty or more years prior to the time of the series assuming Cavil was telling the truth about preaching longer than Tyrol had been sucking down oxygen. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 23:38, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil "Atheist" ==
It seems in their conversation that they came to a fairly Agnostic, not atheist, conclusion with the line "can't prove it one way or another." Thought? --posted by Xavier101
:No. Athiest. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:13, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Could be either, but I'm leaning towards atheist. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:53, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:They acknowledged it couldn't be proven but stated that they personally believe there is no God, thus they are atheists. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:34, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Strictly speaking, a 'true' atheist denies the existence of a god or gods and does not concede the possibility that "we just don't know or can't prove it." An agnostic takes the position that we do not know or cannot prove it (presently), but often actually does have a basically atheistic outlook on the universe. My opinion is that, from a purely logical standpoint, Cavil's statements make him an agnostic with an atheistic outlook. Or, in other words, he would concede that he can't REALLY prove it one way or another, but would be willing to lay a substantial wager on the non-existence of god. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:15, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

:I think the fact that Cavil ''always'' used his hands to make quotation marks in the air ''each time'' he said "God" in "Occupation/Precipice" makes it far more likely that he's not at all on the same page as most of the other Cylons. Even undercover as a brother, he flat-out denies the concept. Perhaps more light will be shed in season 3. If a Cavil encounters [[Dodona Selloi]], it would do just that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

::You know, along the lines of not being on the same page as other Cylons...you remember that the various models of Cylon were having that discussion in Exodus Part I, and Cavil excused himself from the discussion, ostensibly because his input into it was unnecessary (if I recall correctly.) I interpreted that as Cavil essentially noting to the others that he is in disagreement as to fundamental courses of action with ALL of the other models present at the meeting. You get the same vibe? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:01, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Atheism doesn't deny the existence of a god or gods, atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. You're thinking of "strong" or "positive atheism" [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:32, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

:That is one definition of the term 'atheism' to be sure, but its most common definition is indeed 'strong' atheism (as you have defined it), just as the most common definition of 'agnostic' implies lack of knowledge (or indeed, as a necessary consequence, a belief) as to same. Just what we mean by having a 'belief' is actually quite hard to define. But, at this point in the discussion, for purposes of probing Cavil's psyche, I think we are talking of distinctions without a difference. ;-) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 17:52, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

== Sleep Agent ==
Is Galactica Cavil a sleeper agent? I tend to think that he is because he seems to have a fake history and seems that sleepers tend defend themselves strongly when accused of being a cylon. Notice the difference betweem Galactica Cavil and Caprica Cavil in their responses to being accused. I know the Cylon Party comment does weaken the argument. Thoughts? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:48, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:He wasn't a sleeper Agent as far as we know, in fact the easiness with which he "resumed" his Cylon status indicated that he was aware. The Caprican Cavil accepted it pretty quickly because eventually he planned to tell them, it was why he was there after all. The other Cavil still had his original mission to remain in secret. I take it sleepers normally don't respond well to the whole "Hey, you're a Cylon!" thing, which may be why boxing was invented, and was why Boomer had cuffs when she resurrected. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 11:20 26 June 2006 (CDT)
::In the continuity of the Miniseries novelization, Doral is a sleeper agent and he is discussed in great detail. His realization was like "flipping a switch." I know that doesn't mean much for the series, but I don't think that it is always a hard as Boomer found it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:45, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
I don't really think Cavil was a sleeper, because of how he acted with the Caprica copy. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:51, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil and Caprica Six Revelations ==
I have a problem with the following statement: "They seem to have discovered many revelations that Caprica-Six realized through her "virtual" Baltar (Downloaded). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner." I think this amounts to pure speculation, and increasingly, bad speculation as we see that Cavil is (if anything) something of a general misanthrope. At any rate, I think there is no legitimate basis for concluding that Caprica Six and the Cavils share any particular insight or common viewpoint. Thoughts? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:08, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2006-10-19T01:01:12Z

Felix Culpa: /* Cavil "Atheist" */

== Categories ==
This page doesn't have any categories. I don't wish to read the spoiler stuff, but if somebody could kindly sort it I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, having stumbled into some spoiler-ish discussion on a talk page, I believe that categories on this page might end up being a spoiler themselves. I guess we can put categories on this once the cat is out of the proverbial bag. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:: We'll find out tonight, I guess. I'm looking forward to it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Article name ==

I believe it should be Cavil, not Brother Cavil, same as it's Cally, not Specialist Cally.
:Yep. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon? ==

Just from speculation based on the 'not at any of the cylon meetings' line, which is so similar to Six's line.

Also if he is a cylon he could be 'Number 1,' as that so far the lower the number the higher the age of the cylon. Perhaps that makes him the 'leader', that is, if cylon's have leaders in their 'society based on unity'.

Just a guess--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:12, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I doubt he is Number 1. Plus, as people keep on forgetting, Cylons only ''appear'' to age -- they don't actually grow up from infancy like humans do. They're made as old as they look (or as young as they look). Period. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Number 12, thus sinking the whole "model number sorted by age" thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::I agree, though I'll take it a step further and say that he is likely Number 12, and likely not Number 1. I think either we have not seen Number 1 yet in any form...or else Number 1 has been there from the beginning, and will be a big surprise for us. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:52, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Do we know if both discovered models were named Cavil? Because that makes me suspicious that their discovery together wouldn't be accidental. And especially with how in agreement they were even after being separately for months (presumably). I don't trust their words, especially now that the Colony was subjugated. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 12:42, 13 March 2006 (CST)

:::As far as I know, there's no on screen evidence of Caprica Cavil being called Cavil directly. We just call him "Caprica Cavil" for the sake of discerning the two different copies of that model, since we only know that model by Cavil. Hope that isn't as confusing as it reads... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:09, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Cavil and Cylon Aging ==
Regardless of whether or not the claim about preaching longer than Tyrol has been "sucking down oxygen" is correct, Cavil's apparent age (approximately 70, going by Dean Stockwell's real age) gives us some hints about the maturation of Humano-Cylons. It would be very safe to assume that the Cylons haven't been at this for a whole 70 years--otherwise, agents would probably have been introduced into Colonial society during the ''first'' war, instead of waiting for the second, and Baltar and Adama and every other survivor wouldn't have been surprised by the fact that they "look like us." A Humano-Cylon body, pre-download, seems to be either a) generated from scratch and resembling a particular age the moment it's ready (an instant twenty-something Sharon, early thirties Six, and late sixties/early seventies Cavil), or b) Cylon genes can be temporarily tweaked to accelerate an aging process that is usually human normal. Either way, the Cylons don't seem to spend 20-plus years generating a new body. Master geneticists that they are, why would they have to wait? -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:28, 18 March 2006 (EST).

:I thought (a) was the clear implication of "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Downloaded" - new Cylon bodies come pre-aged. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:21, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::Those technically weren't new bodies. They are copies, not clones, remember? A "new" body is exactly duplicated from an old one. By definition all will be the same age. So any aging would take place simultaneously across the whole model. Also, Dean Stockwell is ~70 but Cavil can be younger.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:11, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::Are you suggesting there's a stock supply of uninhabited Cylon bodies all aging simultaneously, a la Evangelion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:54, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::::Er, yes. That is what the Resurrection Ship (and whatever they have on their homeworld) is. My point is that when they make a new uninhabited body it's A Copy, Not A Clone, and thus the same age as the body it was copied from.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:41, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::::Every body in a Cylon model is the same. They are all twins, none is a clone of another. They are made in the resurrection Ship, that was visually implied by the whole stack of Sixes. The Cavils themeselves are proof that they are made the age they look. There are Cavils in pods looking exactly like they do. The "longer than.." comment was needed, he wouldn't say "I've been preaching for two years, since I'm a Cylon.." --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006

I removed the statement claiming that the humanoid cylons possibly came into existence thirty years prior to the time period in the show was contradicted by other evidence. It misunderstood the point of the previous statement (which I originally submitted), which does not argue that the infiltration of the colonies began that far back. It only suggests that the humanoid cylons came into being thirty or more years prior to the time of the series assuming Cavil was telling the truth about preaching longer than Tyrol had been sucking down oxygen. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 23:38, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil "Atheist" ==
It seems in their conversation that they came to a fairly Agnostic, not atheist, conclusion with the line "can't prove it one way or another." Thought? --posted by Xavier101
:No. Athiest. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:13, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Could be either, but I'm leaning towards atheist. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:53, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:They acknowledged it couldn't be proven but stated that they personally believe there is no God, thus they are atheists. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:34, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Strictly speaking, a 'true' atheist denies the existence of a god or gods and does not concede the possibility that "we just don't know or can't prove it." An agnostic takes the position that we do not know or cannot prove it (presently), but often actually does have a basically atheistic outlook on the universe. My opinion is that, from a purely logical standpoint, Cavil's statements make him an agnostic with an atheistic outlook. Or, in other words, he would concede that he can't REALLY prove it one way or another, but would be willing to lay a substantial wager on the non-existence of god. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:15, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

:I think the fact that Cavil ''always'' used his hands to make quotation marks in the air ''each time'' he said "God" in "Occupation/Precipice" makes it far more likely that he's not at all on the same page as most of the other Cylons. Even undercover as a brother, he flat-out denies the concept. Perhaps more light will be shed in season 3. If a Cavil encounters [[Dodona Selloi]], it would do just that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

::You know, along the lines of not being on the same page as other Cylons...you remember that the various models of Cylon were having that discussion in Exodus Part I, and Cavil excused himself from the discussion, ostensibly because his input into it was unnecessary (if I recall correctly.) I interpreted that as Cavil essentially noting to the others that he is in disagreement as to fundamental courses of action with ALL of the other models present at the meeting. You get the same vibe? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:01, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

== Sleep Agent ==
Is Galactica Cavil a sleeper agent? I tend to think that he is because he seems to have a fake history and seems that sleepers tend defend themselves strongly when accused of being a cylon. Notice the difference betweem Galactica Cavil and Caprica Cavil in their responses to being accused. I know the Cylon Party comment does weaken the argument. Thoughts? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:48, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:He wasn't a sleeper Agent as far as we know, in fact the easiness with which he "resumed" his Cylon status indicated that he was aware. The Caprican Cavil accepted it pretty quickly because eventually he planned to tell them, it was why he was there after all. The other Cavil still had his original mission to remain in secret. I take it sleepers normally don't respond well to the whole "Hey, you're a Cylon!" thing, which may be why boxing was invented, and was why Boomer had cuffs when she resurrected. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 11:20 26 June 2006 (CDT)
::In the continuity of the Miniseries novelization, Doral is a sleeper agent and he is discussed in great detail. His realization was like "flipping a switch." I know that doesn't mean much for the series, but I don't think that it is always a hard as Boomer found it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:45, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
I don't really think Cavil was a sleeper, because of how he acted with the Caprica copy. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:51, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil and Caprica Six Revelations ==
I have a problem with the following statement: "They seem to have discovered many revelations that Caprica-Six realized through her "virtual" Baltar (Downloaded). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner." I think this amounts to pure speculation, and increasingly, bad speculation as we see that Cavil is (if anything) something of a general misanthrope. At any rate, I think there is no legitimate basis for concluding that Caprica Six and the Cavils share any particular insight or common viewpoint. Thoughts? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:08, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2006-10-18T18:15:19Z

Felix Culpa: /* Cavil "Atheist" */

== Categories ==
This page doesn't have any categories. I don't wish to read the spoiler stuff, but if somebody could kindly sort it I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, having stumbled into some spoiler-ish discussion on a talk page, I believe that categories on this page might end up being a spoiler themselves. I guess we can put categories on this once the cat is out of the proverbial bag. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:: We'll find out tonight, I guess. I'm looking forward to it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Article name ==

I believe it should be Cavil, not Brother Cavil, same as it's Cally, not Specialist Cally.
:Yep. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon? ==

Just from speculation based on the 'not at any of the cylon meetings' line, which is so similar to Six's line.

Also if he is a cylon he could be 'Number 1,' as that so far the lower the number the higher the age of the cylon. Perhaps that makes him the 'leader', that is, if cylon's have leaders in their 'society based on unity'.

Just a guess--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:12, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I doubt he is Number 1. Plus, as people keep on forgetting, Cylons only ''appear'' to age -- they don't actually grow up from infancy like humans do. They're made as old as they look (or as young as they look). Period. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Number 12, thus sinking the whole "model number sorted by age" thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::I agree, though I'll take it a step further and say that he is likely Number 12, and likely not Number 1. I think either we have not seen Number 1 yet in any form...or else Number 1 has been there from the beginning, and will be a big surprise for us. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:52, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Do we know if both discovered models were named Cavil? Because that makes me suspicious that their discovery together wouldn't be accidental. And especially with how in agreement they were even after being separately for months (presumably). I don't trust their words, especially now that the Colony was subjugated. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 12:42, 13 March 2006 (CST)

:::As far as I know, there's no on screen evidence of Caprica Cavil being called Cavil directly. We just call him "Caprica Cavil" for the sake of discerning the two different copies of that model, since we only know that model by Cavil. Hope that isn't as confusing as it reads... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:09, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Cavil and Cylon Aging ==
Regardless of whether or not the claim about preaching longer than Tyrol has been "sucking down oxygen" is correct, Cavil's apparent age (approximately 70, going by Dean Stockwell's real age) gives us some hints about the maturation of Humano-Cylons. It would be very safe to assume that the Cylons haven't been at this for a whole 70 years--otherwise, agents would probably have been introduced into Colonial society during the ''first'' war, instead of waiting for the second, and Baltar and Adama and every other survivor wouldn't have been surprised by the fact that they "look like us." A Humano-Cylon body, pre-download, seems to be either a) generated from scratch and resembling a particular age the moment it's ready (an instant twenty-something Sharon, early thirties Six, and late sixties/early seventies Cavil), or b) Cylon genes can be temporarily tweaked to accelerate an aging process that is usually human normal. Either way, the Cylons don't seem to spend 20-plus years generating a new body. Master geneticists that they are, why would they have to wait? -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:28, 18 March 2006 (EST).

:I thought (a) was the clear implication of "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Downloaded" - new Cylon bodies come pre-aged. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:21, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::Those technically weren't new bodies. They are copies, not clones, remember? A "new" body is exactly duplicated from an old one. By definition all will be the same age. So any aging would take place simultaneously across the whole model. Also, Dean Stockwell is ~70 but Cavil can be younger.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:11, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::Are you suggesting there's a stock supply of uninhabited Cylon bodies all aging simultaneously, a la Evangelion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:54, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::::Er, yes. That is what the Resurrection Ship (and whatever they have on their homeworld) is. My point is that when they make a new uninhabited body it's A Copy, Not A Clone, and thus the same age as the body it was copied from.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:41, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::::Every body in a Cylon model is the same. They are all twins, none is a clone of another. They are made in the resurrection Ship, that was visually implied by the whole stack of Sixes. The Cavils themeselves are proof that they are made the age they look. There are Cavils in pods looking exactly like they do. The "longer than.." comment was needed, he wouldn't say "I've been preaching for two years, since I'm a Cylon.." --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006

I removed the statement claiming that the humanoid cylons possibly came into existence thirty years prior to the time period in the show was contradicted by other evidence. It misunderstood the point of the previous statement (which I originally submitted), which does not argue that the infiltration of the colonies began that far back. It only suggests that the humanoid cylons came into being thirty or more years prior to the time of the series assuming Cavil was telling the truth about preaching longer than Tyrol had been sucking down oxygen. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 23:38, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil "Atheist" ==
It seems in their conversation that they came to a fairly Agnostic, not atheist, conclusion with the line "can't prove it one way or another." Thought? --posted by Xavier101
:No. Athiest. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:13, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Could be either, but I'm leaning towards atheist. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:53, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:They acknowledged it couldn't be proven but stated that they personally believe there is no God, thus they are atheists. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:34, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Strictly speaking, a 'true' atheist denies the existence of a god or gods and does not concede the possibility that "we just don't know or can't prove it." An agnostic takes the position that we do not know or cannot prove it (presently), but often actually does have a basically atheistic outlook on the universe. My opinion is that, from a purely logical standpoint, Cavil's statements make him an agnostic with an atheistic outlook. Or, in other words, he would concede that he can't REALLY prove it one way or another, but would be willing to lay a substantial wager on the non-existence of god. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:15, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

== Sleep Agent ==
Is Galactica Cavil a sleeper agent? I tend to think that he is because he seems to have a fake history and seems that sleepers tend defend themselves strongly when accused of being a cylon. Notice the difference betweem Galactica Cavil and Caprica Cavil in their responses to being accused. I know the Cylon Party comment does weaken the argument. Thoughts? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:48, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:He wasn't a sleeper Agent as far as we know, in fact the easiness with which he "resumed" his Cylon status indicated that he was aware. The Caprican Cavil accepted it pretty quickly because eventually he planned to tell them, it was why he was there after all. The other Cavil still had his original mission to remain in secret. I take it sleepers normally don't respond well to the whole "Hey, you're a Cylon!" thing, which may be why boxing was invented, and was why Boomer had cuffs when she resurrected. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 11:20 26 June 2006 (CDT)
::In the continuity of the Miniseries novelization, Doral is a sleeper agent and he is discussed in great detail. His realization was like "flipping a switch." I know that doesn't mean much for the series, but I don't think that it is always a hard as Boomer found it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:45, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
I don't really think Cavil was a sleeper, because of how he acted with the Caprica copy. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:51, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil and Caprica Six Revelations ==
I have a problem with the following statement: "They seem to have discovered many revelations that Caprica-Six realized through her "virtual" Baltar (Downloaded). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner." I think this amounts to pure speculation, and increasingly, bad speculation as we see that Cavil is (if anything) something of a general misanthrope. At any rate, I think there is no legitimate basis for concluding that Caprica Six and the Cavils share any particular insight or common viewpoint. Thoughts? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:08, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2006-10-18T18:08:17Z

Felix Culpa:

== Categories ==
This page doesn't have any categories. I don't wish to read the spoiler stuff, but if somebody could kindly sort it I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, having stumbled into some spoiler-ish discussion on a talk page, I believe that categories on this page might end up being a spoiler themselves. I guess we can put categories on this once the cat is out of the proverbial bag. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:: We'll find out tonight, I guess. I'm looking forward to it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Article name ==

I believe it should be Cavil, not Brother Cavil, same as it's Cally, not Specialist Cally.
:Yep. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon? ==

Just from speculation based on the 'not at any of the cylon meetings' line, which is so similar to Six's line.

Also if he is a cylon he could be 'Number 1,' as that so far the lower the number the higher the age of the cylon. Perhaps that makes him the 'leader', that is, if cylon's have leaders in their 'society based on unity'.

Just a guess--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:12, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I doubt he is Number 1. Plus, as people keep on forgetting, Cylons only ''appear'' to age -- they don't actually grow up from infancy like humans do. They're made as old as they look (or as young as they look). Period. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Number 12, thus sinking the whole "model number sorted by age" thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::I agree, though I'll take it a step further and say that he is likely Number 12, and likely not Number 1. I think either we have not seen Number 1 yet in any form...or else Number 1 has been there from the beginning, and will be a big surprise for us. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:52, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Do we know if both discovered models were named Cavil? Because that makes me suspicious that their discovery together wouldn't be accidental. And especially with how in agreement they were even after being separately for months (presumably). I don't trust their words, especially now that the Colony was subjugated. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 12:42, 13 March 2006 (CST)

:::As far as I know, there's no on screen evidence of Caprica Cavil being called Cavil directly. We just call him "Caprica Cavil" for the sake of discerning the two different copies of that model, since we only know that model by Cavil. Hope that isn't as confusing as it reads... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:09, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Cavil and Cylon Aging ==
Regardless of whether or not the claim about preaching longer than Tyrol has been "sucking down oxygen" is correct, Cavil's apparent age (approximately 70, going by Dean Stockwell's real age) gives us some hints about the maturation of Humano-Cylons. It would be very safe to assume that the Cylons haven't been at this for a whole 70 years--otherwise, agents would probably have been introduced into Colonial society during the ''first'' war, instead of waiting for the second, and Baltar and Adama and every other survivor wouldn't have been surprised by the fact that they "look like us." A Humano-Cylon body, pre-download, seems to be either a) generated from scratch and resembling a particular age the moment it's ready (an instant twenty-something Sharon, early thirties Six, and late sixties/early seventies Cavil), or b) Cylon genes can be temporarily tweaked to accelerate an aging process that is usually human normal. Either way, the Cylons don't seem to spend 20-plus years generating a new body. Master geneticists that they are, why would they have to wait? -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:28, 18 March 2006 (EST).

:I thought (a) was the clear implication of "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Downloaded" - new Cylon bodies come pre-aged. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:21, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::Those technically weren't new bodies. They are copies, not clones, remember? A "new" body is exactly duplicated from an old one. By definition all will be the same age. So any aging would take place simultaneously across the whole model. Also, Dean Stockwell is ~70 but Cavil can be younger.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:11, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::Are you suggesting there's a stock supply of uninhabited Cylon bodies all aging simultaneously, a la Evangelion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:54, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::::Er, yes. That is what the Resurrection Ship (and whatever they have on their homeworld) is. My point is that when they make a new uninhabited body it's A Copy, Not A Clone, and thus the same age as the body it was copied from.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:41, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::::Every body in a Cylon model is the same. They are all twins, none is a clone of another. They are made in the resurrection Ship, that was visually implied by the whole stack of Sixes. The Cavils themeselves are proof that they are made the age they look. There are Cavils in pods looking exactly like they do. The "longer than.." comment was needed, he wouldn't say "I've been preaching for two years, since I'm a Cylon.." --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006

I removed the statement claiming that the humanoid cylons possibly came into existence thirty years prior to the time period in the show was contradicted by other evidence. It misunderstood the point of the previous statement (which I originally submitted), which does not argue that the infiltration of the colonies began that far back. It only suggests that the humanoid cylons came into being thirty or more years prior to the time of the series assuming Cavil was telling the truth about preaching longer than Tyrol had been sucking down oxygen. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 23:38, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil "Atheist" ==
It seems in their conversation that they came to a fairly Agnostic, not atheist, conclusion with the line "can't prove it one way or another." Thought? --posted by Xavier101
:No. Athiest. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:13, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Could be either, but I'm leaning towards atheist. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:53, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:They acknowledged it couldn't be proven but stated that they personally believe there is no God, thus they are atheists. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:34, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

== Sleep Agent ==
Is Galactica Cavil a sleeper agent? I tend to think that he is because he seems to have a fake history and seems that sleepers tend defend themselves strongly when accused of being a cylon. Notice the difference betweem Galactica Cavil and Caprica Cavil in their responses to being accused. I know the Cylon Party comment does weaken the argument. Thoughts? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:48, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:He wasn't a sleeper Agent as far as we know, in fact the easiness with which he "resumed" his Cylon status indicated that he was aware. The Caprican Cavil accepted it pretty quickly because eventually he planned to tell them, it was why he was there after all. The other Cavil still had his original mission to remain in secret. I take it sleepers normally don't respond well to the whole "Hey, you're a Cylon!" thing, which may be why boxing was invented, and was why Boomer had cuffs when she resurrected. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 11:20 26 June 2006 (CDT)
::In the continuity of the Miniseries novelization, Doral is a sleeper agent and he is discussed in great detail. His realization was like "flipping a switch." I know that doesn't mean much for the series, but I don't think that it is always a hard as Boomer found it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:45, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
I don't really think Cavil was a sleeper, because of how he acted with the Caprica copy. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:51, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil and Caprica Six Revelations ==
I have a problem with the following statement: "They seem to have discovered many revelations that Caprica-Six realized through her "virtual" Baltar (Downloaded). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner." I think this amounts to pure speculation, and increasingly, bad speculation as we see that Cavil is (if anything) something of a general misanthrope. At any rate, I think there is no legitimate basis for concluding that Caprica Six and the Cavils share any particular insight or common viewpoint. Thoughts? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:08, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Kara Thrace

2006-10-11T03:28:28Z

Felix Culpa:

:''This article discusses the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]] character with the pilot callsign of "Starbuck." For information on Kara Thrace's counterpart in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], see [[Starbuck (TOS)]].''

'''Kara "Starbuck" Thrace''', serial number 462753, is a gifted Viper pilot - and knows it. This leaves her with an attitude that has at times thwarted her career advancement. However, thanks to William Adama, Thrace's skills in battle have extended beyond the cockpit to greatly aid the Fleet.

{{Character Data
|photo= Season 3 Thrace.jpg
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= Kara Thrace
|callsign= Starbuck
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children= [[Kacey]]
|marital status= Married to [[Samuel Anders]] (Formerly engaged to [[Zak Adama]])
|role= Unknown, Formerly: Commander Air Group, Battlestar ''Galactica'' ([[The Captain's Hand]])
|rank= Captain
|actor= [[Katee Sackhoff]]
|cylon=
}}

== Background ==
*In an unhappy childhood, Thrace was so frequently beaten by her mother that she came to accept pain as a way of life ([[Flesh and Bone]]).
*Her father was a pianist ([[Valley of Darkness]]), suggesting that her formerly broken finger bones on both hands had been intentionally broken by a parent using her father's piano ([[The Farm]]).
*Thrace left home to join the [[Colonial Fleet|military]].
* She was a very talented [[pyramid]] player ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]), and received a scholarship to the Fleet Academy to play pyramid. During this time, she injured her knee and was no longer able to play pyramid at a professional level. During that time, however, she discovered a passion and skill at being a fighter pilot ([[Podcast:The Hand of God]]). On graduating from Colonial Flight School, she undertook a period of active duty before returning to flight school as an instructor.
*Thrace fell in love with a young recruit, [[Zak Adama]]. Despite his mediocre performance, she passed him on his final flight examination, despite failing three of the required maneuvers ([[Act of Contrition]]).
*Thrace's engagement to Zak Adama ends when he was killed during a routine mission shortly after graduating. At the time, [[Lee Adama]], Zak's elder brother, blamed their father for Zak Adama's death. In her guilt, Thrace did little to alter this idea. She did, however, meet [[William Adama]] shortly after the accident, and the two struck up such a strong rapport that they stood together at the funeral ([[Act of Contrition]]).
*Thrace resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' under the command of William Adama, where she served for some two years prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]] on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. Before the Cylon attack, she was second in command of the remaining pilots, subordinate to the [[CAG]], [[Jackson Spencer]].
*At the time of the Cylon attack she has an run-down apartment in [[Delphi]] that overlooks a parking lot. She rarely used the dilapidated apartment. She was also a very avid painter, and her apartment was cluttered with her paintings ([[Valley of Darkness]]).
*Despite her reckless approach to life, Thrace hides the fact that she is deeply spiritual. She frequently prays (or talks) to the [[Lords of Kobol]], particularly [[Aphrodite]] and [[Artemis]] in times of need ([[Miniseries]], "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]").

==Character History at a Glance==
*Thrace's attitude quickly runs her afoul of Colonel [[Saul Tigh]], ''Galactica's'' [[Executive officer]]. Their open mutual dislike of one another leads to the point where blows are exchanged, with Thrace ending up in the brig ([[Miniseries]]).
*While in the brig, Captain Spencer is killed in a Cylon slaughter of ''Galactica's'' last [[Viper Mark VII|Viper]] squadron. Lee "Apollo" Adama, who joins ''Galactica'', is given the senior pilot title.
*Thrace manages to keep two of three nuclear missiles from striking ''Galactica'' in their first Cylon sortie, and saves Captain Adama from doom in an innovative maneuver in the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]].
*Her skills in saving Apollo brings her grudging respect from Colonel Tigh, but she is unable to accept his offer of the olive branch - an act that will have repercussions for her later.

[[image:Bastille_Day-Starbuck_Boxey.jpg|thumb|left|[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] as acting [[CAG]] with [[Boxey (RDM)|Boxey]] as assistant in [[Bastille Day]].]]
*Thrace participates in a hostage rescue mission aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]''. Following the successful mission, Thrace tries to mend fences between herself and Colonel Tigh with a toast (consisting of water), apologizing in much the same way as Tigh himself had tried after their initial escape from [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. But Tigh rejects Thrace's apology, stating that her flaws are professional, while his flaws were personal ([[Bastille Day]]).
*Thrace eventually admits her secret about Zak Adama to William Adama himself, an act that brings their close friendship almost to the breaking point ([[Act of Contrition]]).
*During a surprise encounter with Cylons during [[nugget]] training, Starbuck destroys several Cylon Raiders, but her ship is damaged and tumbles towards a small red moon with an unbreathable atmosphere. With her Viper in a fatal flat-spin, Starbuck is forced to eject from her Viper ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).
*Thrace (nursing a damaged knee) repairs the downed Cylon Raider found on the inhabitable moon and returns to ''Galactica'', giving the Fleet a vital piece of Cylon fighter technology for study and use.
*The recovering Thrace, off flight status, is asked by Commander Adama to plan a special attack on a Cylon [[tylium]] refinery. The tactical planning role is not something she relishes, and she frequently shows resentment towards others for her condition ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).
*During Thrace's undesired interrogation of a Cylon prisoner, a copy of a known [[Cylon agent]] named [[Leoben Conoy]], she uses some drastic acts to try to extract the information from the Cylon agent ([[Flesh and Bone]]).
[[image:Starbuck-Kobols_Last_Gleaming_pt2.jpg|thumb|right|'''Starbuck''' retrieves the [[Arrow of Apollo]] in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]].]]
*Thrace is assigned to plant a nuclear device on board a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit around [[Kobol]]. Disobeying orders to retrieve the [[Arrow of Apollo]] by President Roslin's request, disillusioned by Commander Adama, she Jumps to Caprica ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), landing in [[Delphi]].
*In the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] with the Arrow, she is violently attacked by a copy of [[Number Six]]. Despite being heavily outmatched in the fight, Thrace luckily defeats the Cylon.
*At the museum, she reunites with [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], whom she thought dead, and discovers a second copy of [[Sharon Valerii]], realizing instantly that the woman is a Cylon.
*Valerii, fearing for her child, steals Thrace's Raider. In exasperation, Starbuck could only mutter: "Bitch took my ride" ([[Scattered]]). Like Helo, Starbuck was left with no way to return to the Fleet unless she could find her Raider or another Cylon spacecraft, as enemy FTL engines were the only ones sufficently powerful to reach the Fleet.
*Starbuck berates Helo's love for the Caprica copy of Valerii. Thrace finds the keys of her surplus military utility vehicle in her old jacket in her old apartment. Thrace has a ride again, if only to move more efficiently about Caprica ([[Valley of Darkness]]).
*Thrace and Helo meet a [[Caprica Resistance|resistance movement]] on Caprica. Thrace and [[Samuel Anders]] strike up a rapport as fellow [[pyramid (RDM)|pyramid]] players and end up as lovers.
*During planning to steal a [[Heavy Raider]], Thrace is shot in a military action, waking up in a hospital on Caprica. Thrace is told by her doctor, [[Simon]], that Anders died from wounds he suffered in getting Thrace to safety.
*Thrace discovers that Simon is working with a [[Number Six|known Cylon agent]]. She overhears that the next day he plans to extract her ovaries for use in the Cylon's attempts to study and create a hybrid Cylon/human embryo. Simon also makes the mistake of calling Thrace by her callsign, Starbuck, which she had never revealed.
*Staggering and in pain, Thrace kills Simon and escapes the hospital, but not before clocking a Six copy with a fire extinguisher and destroying the local farm power supply, mercy-killing [[Sue-Shaun]] and several other women in the facility.
*Another Simon copy appears just as the Resistance attacks the facility. The second Simon, now revealed as a Cylon agent himself, is immediately killed by the Resistance, but a squad of [[Cylon Centurion]]s appear and pins the Resistance down. Luckily, Helo's [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|copy of Sharon Valerii]] swoops in with a stolen [[Heavy Raider]], destroys the Centurions and flies the Resistance and Thrace out of harm's way.
*Thrace promises to Anders that she'll [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I|return with a rescue mission]] for the remaining survivors. Anders returns the Arrow of Apollo to Thrace, which he hid on the resistance grounds for safekeeping ([[The Farm]]).
*Thrace, Helo and the pregnant Valerii land on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' in the Heavy Raider. Finding the [[Laura Roslin faction]] in orbit of [[Kobol]], Thrace is reunited with Lee Adama. He kisses her impulsively, catching Thrace by pleasant surprise, but a tense standoff follows when Adama discovers that another Valerii copy has returned with them. Roslin helps defuse the situation, and Thrace delivers the Arrow of Apollo to the President.
*Temporarily removed from miltary protoco, Lee Adama playfully teases Thrace by stealing a pyramid ball she took from Caprica. Adama senses her depression about Caprica and tells her that he'd be happy to hear about any problems she had. He also let slip that he loved her, which brightened Thrace's mood to the point where she teased him back about his slip.
*With a team led by Laura Roslin, Lee Adama, and, later, joined by the recovered Commander Adama, Thrace enters the [[Tomb of Athena]] and successfully uses the Arrow of Apollo to activate a hologram that shows constellations of the Twelve Colonies' ancient symbols.
*Thrace realizes that they are on a recreation of Earth. Together with Lee Adama, they locate the Lagoon Nebula, a celestial body known to Commander Adama and Lee Adama, and gather sufficient information to begin an actual course to Earth ([[Home, Part II]]).
*Thrace shows off the impressive stealth abilities in the new [[Blackbird]] fighter in her maiden flight ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).
*With the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', Admiral [[Helena Cain]] summarily assigns Thrace (and Lee Adama) to ''Pegasus'' after digesting the reports of ''Galactica'''s officers.
*[[Cole Taylor|The ''Pegasus'' CAG]] removes Thrace from the Cylon recon mission. Lee Adama secretly tells her to use the [[Blackbird]] to take recon photos of the Cylon Unknown. ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])
*Returning from her very successful mission, the [[Blackbird]]'s lack of a Colonial transponder is mistaken for a Cylon [[Raider]] on [[DRADIS]], and Starbuck is nearly confronted and shot at by Vipers from ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica''. After narrowly avoiding certain death by declaring herself a friendly, Thrace transmits her recon photos to ''Pegasus'' and Admiral Cain.
*Cain is so impressed with Starbuck's performance that Cain promotes Thrace to Captain and ''Pegasus'' CAG.
*Thrace is assigned the task of planning the joint attack on the Resurrection Ship, but successfully asks to have Adama on her team, restoring him to flight status.
*After she briefs Cain and Commander Adama on her battle plan, Adama asks Thrace privately to assassinate Cain after the battle is complete. Adama fears that if Cain continues to command, the Fleet would be in mortal jeopardy from Cain's draconian command.
*Thrace's battle planning, as before on the [[tylium]] [[The Hand of God (RDM)|mine]], works to near-perfection, with the Resurrection Ship destroyed and its supporting basestars.
*As a result of the battle events, Thrace is left without backup as she walks to the ''Pegasus'' CIC to shoot Cain, obviously afraid and apprehensive. When Commander Adama calls, Thrace slowly moves her hand to her sidearm but, to her relief, Adama does not give the kill order and cryptically instructs her to stand down.
*Starbuck and [[Kat]] are involved in the protection of a mining operation from periodic Raider attacks. One Raider, nicknamed [[Scar (Raider)|Scar]], fuels an intensive rivalry for the pilot's "top gun" honor. Thrace, still depressed over her inability to convince Fleet command to initiate a rescue for Samuel Anders and his resistance, drinks heavily and obsesses over removing Scar from the sky, even at the cost of her life. Fortunately, Starbuck realizes the futility of her actions, and works together with Kat to destroy the remarkably dangerous Raider ([[Scar]]).
*A few weeks later, Thrace takes leave on ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' when she was dragooned into rescuing Lee Adama and several other ''Galactica'' crew and residents after terrorists take them hostage in exchange for the incarcerated [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]. Thrace gathers intel on the situation, but her cover is blown. In the retreating firefight, Lee Adama is caught in the crossfire. After the situation is resolved, Thrace intended to sit at Adama's bedside, only to discover that Dualla beat her there ([[Sacrifice]]).
*Later, Thrace is assigned to ''Pegasus'' as a flight trainer. Though the pilots like her, Commander [[Barry Garner]] does not, eventually confining her to quarters for "insubordination." Following the [[Battle of the Binary Star System|ill-fated rescue and retreat]] from a Cylon ambush (where Thrace leads the fighters), Thrace informs new ''Pegasus'' Commander Lee Adama that she was taking over his old CAG post aboard ''Galactica'' ([[The Captain's Hand]]).
*Thrace gets her wish: The Caprica rescue is approved, and she leads a large Raptor squadron to the planet. The group soon met up with Anders, who reports that their HQ had been destroyed and Thrace's timing was just perfect. A squad of Centurions ambush and pin down the group moments later ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).
*Still pinned down from attack fire, Starbuck and Anders agree to kill each other to avoid capture and interrment at a [[Farms|farm]]. But the attack stops, and a [[Cavil|man]] appears, praising the [[Lords of Kobol|Gods]] as he announces that the Cylons not only have ceased fire, but are abandoning the Twelve Colonies. Starbuck isn't really surprised to discover that the man, known as Brother Cavil, was a Cylon upon their return to the Fleet.
*Starbuck and Anders proceed to get drunk, and host a disastrous visitation with Lee Adama. This apparently led to a rift between the two comrades.

==Currently...==
[[Image:Karanew.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Kara Thrace one year later]]
In the following year, Thrace marries Anders, and the two move to [[New Caprica City]]. Life on New Caprica tempered Thrace, and she often behaved in ways Starbuck never would have, including hugging Colonel Tigh and pampering Anders and his bout with an illness.

She watches in horror at the sudden arrival of hundreds of Cylon ships in the sky over New Caprica. A few of ''Galactica's'' former crew gather near Thrace, looking to her for guidance. Starbuck responds the only way she knows how: "Fight 'em until we can't" ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). During the Cylon invasion of [[New Caprica]] a Leoben copy slips into Kara Thrace and Samuel Anders' tent and asks the ailing Anders where Thrace is ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). It is subsequently revealed that this Conoy kept Kara prisoner in an apartment located within the Cylon complex built in New Caprica City subsequent to the Cylon occupation of New Caprica. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Ostensibly, the New Caprica copy of Conoy is attempting to make Kara realize both that she loves him and also convert her to the Cylon monotheistic religion. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Kara has assaulted and killed this Conoy at least five times. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). However, despite repeatedly killing him, she remains imprisoned in Conoy's New Caprica apartment, and Conoy is repeatedly downloaded into new bodies, after which he returns to the apartment and continues his attempts at converting Kara. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Most recently, Conoy brought a small child named Kacey (appearing to be approximately two to three years in age) who he claims is Kara's and his child. ([[Precipice]]). Conoy explains that the child was created using one of Kara's ovaries (left undestroyed after it was harvested from her while she was on Caprica) and his genetic material. ([[Precipice]]). Whatever the truth of Kacey's origin, it appears clear that Conoy is using her to break down Kara's resistance, and that he has had at least some success in doing so. ([[Precipice]]).

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==Notes==
*On the Sci-Fi Channel's preview for season 2.5 (US), Katee Sackoff is quoted as saying that Starbuck is "the best Viper pilot...EVER."
*[[Wikipedia:Thrace|Thrace]] was a region in south-eastern Europe that was heavily influenced by the ancient Greeks and was eventually conquered by [[Wikipedia:Philip_II_of_Macedonia|Phillip II of Macedonia]]. Thracians were considered by most to be the most ferocious fighters and were often highly paid mercenaries for Greek kings.
*After auditioning for the role of [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]], [[Grace Park]] was asked by director [[Michael Rymer]] to audition for the role of Starbuck, and she was actually one of two finalists up for the role (the other being Katee Sackhoff, who got the part). Ultimately Park was cast as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerri]].
*In a TV Guide [http://online.tvguide.com/newsearch/detail.aspx?id=4371595&sourcetype=S&progseriesparentid=4371595&tvobjectid=191395&keyword=Battlestar+Galactica&referrer=search1 photo shoot] at the BSG studios, Katee Sackhoff explained that the tattoo that Starbuck bears on her left arm is a wing and a circle that matches a mirror image tatto on Anders' right arm. When the two of them hold each other with their respective arms crossing, the 2 tattoos come together to form an image of a single ring with 2 wings that is supposed to represent their union. According to Sackhoff, Kara and Anders had the tattoos done around the time of their wedding.
*The license plate on Thrace's truck on Caprica is "FB 42 E3" ([[Valley of Darkness]]).
{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=[[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]]|title=Commander, Air Group of the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=''(unknown)''}}
{{succession box|before=[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]]|title=Commander, Air Group of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katriane]]}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:Characters|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:RDM|Thrace, Kara]]

Number Two

2006-10-11T03:18:47Z

Felix Culpa:

{{Character Data
|photo= CyLeo.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon Infilitrator, Prophet / Mis-informant
|rank=
|actor= [[Callum Keith Rennie]]
|cylon= y
|name=
}}

'''Leoben Conoy''' is a [[Cylon agent]] first encountered at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. He fancies himself as a prophet with predilections for enlightened monotheistic religious dogma, whereas he is more likely to sow the seeds of doubt or mis-information, weaving lies in the fabric of truth and faith.

__TOC__
== Ragnar Anchorage Copy ==

Conoy is first encountered at the [[Ragnar Anchorage]], where he poses as an arms dealer. It is likely that he was assigned with the monitoring of this depot station as the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|war]] began, gaining intelligence on battlestars that visited there. Alternatively, he may have been tasked with stealing away or destroying the ammunition (or the station itself) to prevent its use by the Colonials.

Conoy is already sick from the radiation around Ragnar, suggesting he had been there for several hours before '' Galactica's'' arrival.

Conoy becomes trapped aboard the station with [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] after a warhead is accidentally detonated. As they try to find another way out of the station, Leoben reveals his true nature to Adama through conversation, initially by claiming to be something of a philosopher. Identifying Conoy as a Cylon on the point of death, Adama challenges him and learns of the Cylon's ability to transfer their consciousness to another body when dying. Only Leoben can't -- the radiation of [[Ragnar]] is interfering with his ability.

A fight ensues, during which Leoben exhibits unnatural strength and speed. Adama manages to kill Conoy by forcing his head over an outventing steam pipe then bludgeoning him to death with a [[flashlight]]. He then brings Leoben's body back to ''[[Galactica]]'' for examination. Samples from this body, when burned, revealed synthetic materials -- which permitted Adama, [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] and Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] to deduce that Cylons could mimic humans in appearance ([[Miniseries]]).

The body is later stored in the ship's morgue ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

Later, three copies of Leoben are among the group of Cylons that rescue [[Number Five|Aaron Doral]], abandoned on Ragnar by the Colonials after Dr. Baltar fingers him as a Cylon agent, and debrief him.

== Gemenon Traveller Copy ==

Conoy is again encountered when a copy is found apparently stowing away aboard the ''[[Gemenon Traveller]]''. Knowing the model's ability to weave fact, fiction and outright lies into a confusing fabric of truth, half-truths and deceit, Adama wants the copy destroyed. However, he is overruled by [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]], who demands the model be interrogated.

[[Kara Thrace|Lieutenant Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] is assigned to interrogate Conoy aboard the ''Gemenon Traveller''. Over the course of eight hours, Conoy demonstrates his ability to confuse and mix truth with lies: he claims to have planted a nuclear device somewhere in the fleet, but will not reveal where. He also mixes what appears to be religious mumbo-jumbo with penetrating insights into Colonial philosophy and Starbuck's own past ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

While she resorts to ever-more drastic measures to obtain details on the alleged bomb's location, Starbuck finds herself being drawn into Leoben's vision of life. So much so that when Roslin orders his execution, Starbuck very much empathises with him.

Prior to his death, Conoy reveals there is no bomb, and uses a reason suggested by Starbuck in the initial stages of his interrogation: that since he is so far from other Cylon centers of influence, he cannot transmit his "soul" back to home should his body die. However, the real purpose of his mission is revealed when President Roslin arrives aboard the ''Traveller'' and he manages to whisper to her that Adama is in fact a Cylon -- thus planting a potentially dangerous seed of doubt between her and Adama.

Convinced now of the danger in keeping Conoy alive, Roslin orders him ejected from the ''Traveller's'' airlock.

Interestingly, Roslin had a premonition of Conoy's surfacing in the fleet when she had a dream about him at the time he was captured. Later, in her cabin on ''[[Colonial One]]'', she had a vision of him talking to her which prompted her decision to visit him in person - thus allowing him to complete his mission.

At the time of the dream and the vision, Roslin assumed both were the result of her using [[Chamalla]] to treat her cancer. However, both may have been the result of some form of psychic ability on the part of Conoy.

== New Caprica Copy ==
[[Image:Leoben Getting Stabed.png|thumb|right|200px|Getting Stabbed ([[Occupation]])]]
During the Cylon invasion of [[New Caprica]] a Leoben copy slips into Kara Thrace and Samuel Anders' tent and asks the ailing Anders where Thrace is ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). It is subsequently revealed that this Conoy kept Kara prisoner in an apartment located within the Cylon complex built in New Caprica City subsequent to the Cylon occupation of New Caprica. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Though never directly stated, this Conoy is likely the same Conoy who Kara previously interrogated and tortured. Ostensibly, the New Caprica copy of Conoy is attempting to make Kara realize both that she loves him and also convert her to the Cylon monotheistic religion. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Kara has assaulted and killed this Conoy at least five times. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). However, despite repeatedly killing him, she remains imprisoned in Conoy's New Caprica apartment, and Conoy is repeatedly downloaded into new bodies, after which he returns to the apartment and continues his attempts at converting Kara. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Most recently, Conoy brought a small child named Kacey (appearing to be approximately two to three years in age) who he claims is Kara's and his child. ([[Precipice]]). Conoy explains that the child was created using one of Kara's ovaries (left undestroyed after it was harvested from her while she was on Caprica) and his genetic material. ([[Precipice]]). Whatever the truth of Kacey's origin, it appears clear that Conoy is using her to break down Kara's resistance, and that he has had at least some success in doing so. ([[Precipice]]).

== Other Copies ==

Apparently the [[Caprica Resistance]] captured and interrogated their own copy of Conoy, as [[Samuel Anders]] sarcastically quotes his philosophy to [[Kara Thrace]] ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]). This is speculation, of course.

A Leoben or two are witnessed in the background of the park and cafe scenes in "[[Downloaded]]"; however, these are played by a stand-in as Calum Keith Rennie was unavailable for the episode.

==Notes==
*[[Wikipedia:Conoy_Township%2C_PA|Conoy]] is the name of a township in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Conoy, Leoben]]
[[Category:Characters|Conoy, Leoben]]
[[Category:Cylons|Conoy, Leoben]]
[[Category:RDM|Conoy, Leoben]]

Number Two

2006-10-11T02:17:04Z

Felix Culpa:

{{Character Data
|photo= CyLeo.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon Infilitrator, Prophet / Mis-informant
|rank=
|actor= [[Callum Keith Rennie]]
|cylon= y
|name=
}}

'''Leoben Conoy''' is a [[Cylon agent]] first encountered at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. He fancies himself as a prophet with predilections for enlightened monotheistic religious dogma, whereas he is more likely to sow the seeds of doubt or mis-information, weaving lies in the fabric of truth and faith.

__TOC__
== Ragnar Anchorage Copy ==

Conoy is first encountered at the [[Ragnar Anchorage]], where he poses as an arms dealer. It is likely that he was assigned with the monitoring of this depot station as the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|war]] began, gaining intelligence on battlestars that visited there. Alternatively, he may have been tasked with stealing away or destroying the ammunition (or the station itself) to prevent its use by the Colonials.

Conoy is already sick from the radiation around Ragnar, suggesting he had been there for several hours before '' Galactica's'' arrival.

Conoy becomes trapped aboard the station with [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] after a warhead is accidentally detonated. As they try to find another way out of the station, Leoben reveals his true nature to Adama through conversation, initially by claiming to be something of a philosopher. Identifying Conoy as a Cylon on the point of death, Adama challenges him and learns of the Cylon's ability to transfer their consciousness to another body when dying. Only Leoben can't -- the radiation of [[Ragnar]] is interfering with his ability.

A fight ensues, during which Leoben exhibits unnatural strength and speed. Adama manages to kill Conoy by forcing his head over an outventing steam pipe then bludgeoning him to death with a [[flashlight]]. He then brings Leoben's body back to ''[[Galactica]]'' for examination. Samples from this body, when burned, revealed synthetic materials -- which permitted Adama, [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] and Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] to deduce that Cylons could mimic humans in appearance ([[Miniseries]]).

The body is later stored in the ship's morgue ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

Later, three copies of Leoben are among the group of Cylons that rescue [[Number Five|Aaron Doral]], abandoned on Ragnar by the Colonials after Dr. Baltar fingers him as a Cylon agent, and debrief him.

== Gemenon Traveller Copy ==

Conoy is again encountered when a copy is found apparently stowing away aboard the ''[[Gemenon Traveller]]''. Knowing the model's ability to weave fact, fiction and outright lies into a confusing fabric of truth, half-truths and deceit, Adama wants the copy destroyed. However, he is overruled by [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]], who demands the model be interrogated.

[[Kara Thrace|Lieutenant Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] is assigned to interrogate Conoy aboard the ''Gemenon Traveller''. Over the course of eight hours, Conoy demonstrates his ability to confuse and mix truth with lies: he claims to have planted a nuclear device somewhere in the fleet, but will not reveal where. He also mixes what appears to be religious mumbo-jumbo with penetrating insights into Colonial philosophy and Starbuck's own past ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

While she resorts to ever-more drastic measures to obtain details on the alleged bomb's location, Starbuck finds herself being drawn into Leoben's vision of life. So much so that when Roslin orders his execution, Starbuck very much empathises with him.

Prior to his death, Conoy reveals there is no bomb, and uses a reason suggested by Starbuck in the initial stages of his interrogation: that since he is so far from other Cylon centers of influence, he cannot transmit his "soul" back to home should his body die. However, the real purpose of his mission is revealed when President Roslin arrives aboard the ''Traveller'' and he manages to whisper to her that Adama is in fact a Cylon -- thus planting a potentially dangerous seed of doubt between her and Adama.

Convinced now of the danger in keeping Conoy alive, Roslin orders him ejected from the ''Traveller's'' airlock.

Interestingly, Roslin had a premonition of Conoy's surfacing in the fleet when she had a dream about him at the time he was captured. Later, in her cabin on ''[[Colonial One]]'', she had a vision of him talking to her which prompted her decision to visit him in person - thus allowing him to complete his mission.

At the time of the dream and the vision, Roslin assumed both were the result of her using [[Chamalla]] to treat her cancer. However, both may have been the result of some form of psychic ability on the part of Conoy.

== New Caprica Copy ==

During the Cylon invasion of [[New Caprica]] a Leoben copy slips into Kara Thrace and Samuel Anders' tent and asks the ailing Anders where Thrace is ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). It is subsequently revealed that this Conoy kept Kara prisoner in an apartment located within the Cylon complex built in New Caprica City subsequent to the Cylon occupation of New Caprica. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Though never directly stated, this Conoy is likely the same Conoy who Kara previously interrogated and tortured. Ostensibly, the New Caprica copy of Conoy is attempting to make Kara realize both that she loves him and also convert her to the Cylon monotheistic religion. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Kara has assaulted and killed at least five copies of this Conoy. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). However, despite repeatedly killing him, she remains imprisoned in Conoy's New Caprica apartment, and Conoy is repeatedly downloaded into new bodies, after which he returns to the apartment and continues his attempts at converting Kara. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Most recently, Conoy brought a small child named Casey (appearing to be approximately two to three years in age) who he claims is Kara's and his child. ([[Precipice]]). Conoy explains that the child was created using one of Kara's ovaries (left undestroyed after it was harvested from her while she was on Caprica) and his gentic material. ([[Precipice]]). Whatever the truth of Casey's origin, it appears clear that Conoy is using her to break down Kara's resistance, and that he has had at least some success in doing so. ([[Precipice]]).

== Other Copies ==

Apparently the [[Caprica Resistance]] captured and interrogated their own copy of Conoy, as [[Samuel Anders]] sarcastically quotes his philosophy to [[Kara Thrace]] ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]). This is speculation, of course.

A Leoben or two are witnessed in the background of the park and cafe scenes in "[[Downloaded]]"; however, these are played by a stand-in as Calum Keith Rennie was unavailable for the episode.

==Notes==
*[[Wikipedia:Conoy_Township%2C_PA|Conoy]] is the name of a township in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Conoy, Leoben]]
[[Category:Characters|Conoy, Leoben]]
[[Category:Cylons|Conoy, Leoben]]
[[Category:RDM|Conoy, Leoben]]

Number One

2006-10-10T19:55:25Z

Felix Culpa:

{{Character Data
|photo=Cavilo.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon Infiltrator, Priest
|rank=
|actor= [[Dean Stockwell]]
|cylon= y
|name= Cavil ?
}}

'''Cavil''' is a [[Cylon agent]] who, previous to being discovered, posed as a [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonial]] [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Clergy|priest]].

While other Cylon agents have a number associated with their model, such as [[Number Six]] and [[Number Three]], the number designation for the Cavil model is currently unknown.

==''Galactica'' Copy==

On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', the first viewed copy of Brother Cavil provides counsel for [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] after Tyrol's maddened attack against [[Cally]]. Cavil identifies the source of Tyrol's anxiety as arising from the fear that he could be a [[Cylon agent|Cylon sleeper agent]]. This Cavil seems to be personally very familiar with Tyrol and is apparently aware that [[Cally]] harbors romantic feelings for him ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). The significance of Cavil's interest in Tyrol's personal affairs, if any, is unknown.

A somewhat eccentric figure, Cavil is a surprisingly harsh critic of prayer for a priest, but claims to have been preaching "longer than you [Tyrol] have been sucking down oxygen" ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). This interesting claim, if true, implies that the humanoid [[Cylon agent]]s came into existence no later than approximately ten years after the end of the [[First Cylon War]] (assuming that Tyrol is approximately 30 years old). Whether Cavil is being truthful cannot be determined at this time.

Despite his cynicism, Cavil prays with [[Laura Roslin]] for her re-election to the presidency to be successful ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Caprica Copy==
[[Image:Cyca2.jpg|left|thumb|Caprican Cavil]]
A second copy of this model emerges from the crew of resistance members rescued by the Caprica [[SAR]] team, telling them that the Cylons had left the Colonies. What he does not tell them — until Tyrol blew his cover upon his arrival at ''Galactica'' — is that he is a Cylon.

Due to this copy's discovery, the Fleet copy is arrested as well and thrown in ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'''s brig. Laura Roslin orders them ejected into space after Caprica-Cavil informs her and Admiral Adama that the Cylons had made two mistakes: the attack on the Colonies and the pursuit of [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). Though their execution was not shown, a later conversation indicated that they were executed ([[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II, deleted scene]]).

Like his Fleet counterpart, the Caprica copy also expresses doubt in the active involvement of divine forces in the real world, although he focuses his contempt on the Cylon religion. Based on his conversation with the Fleet copy, this viewpoint appears to be shared between at least these two copies, and possibly across the entire model.

==New Caprica Copy==
[[Image:Cavz.jpg|thumb|right|A Cavil on New Caprica]]

At least two copies of Cavil are present in the invasion fleet on New Caprica, as seen in [[Occupation]] and [[Precipice]], though there are probably a lot more. They have some authority over humans in detainment, as one of the copies is bribed by sexual relations with [[Ellen Tigh]] into releasing [[Saul Tigh]]. This may have been a self-serving ruse, because after a second sexual encounter, Cavil says to her of Saul, "When's this next meeting with the insurgents?" and "we know he's their leader - why do you think we let him out of detention?". Ellen replies, "I thought it was because of the 'twist'", referring to a sex act, and Cavil says, "oh, yes, that too."

Two copies, possibly those same two, are also involved in the Cylon leaders' discussions such as whether to kill [[Gauis Baltar]].

Another copy (or perhaps one of the previous two) also acts as a type of liaison between the [[New Caprica Police|NCP]] and their Cylon masters. He gives [[Jammer]] the list of Colonials to detain, and later accompanies the NCP to the site of a mass execution of Colonial Detainees.

==Analysis==
The Cavils appear to be very radical thinkers, and demonstrate a unity among the model not seen in any other. Copies appear to have a well-developed sense of sardonic humor and are given to making jokes in even the most awkward, dangerous, and heightened circumstances ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]], [[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). They seem to have discovered many revelations that [[Caprica-Six]] realized through her "virtual" Baltar ([[Downloaded]]). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner.

In [[Occupation]] and [[Precipice]], the Cavils are the most ''outwardly'' ruthless and cruel to humans. Perhaps even more troubling, the Cavils appear to take pleasure (or at least a noticeable level of amusement) in their own acts of psychological and physical cruelty. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Viewers can infer (correctly or not) from the New Caprica detention scene between a Cavil and [[Saul Tigh]] that a Cavil is significantly involved in the brutal, months-long interrogation. In conversation with the other Cylons, Cavils are vocal and callous proponents of harsh measures against the [[New Caprica Resistance]] and are strong advocates of mass executions.

It is ironic that the first two known copies of this apparently atheistic model pose as clergymen. This may be an intentional mockery of religion on their part.

With the Cylons apparently occupying [[New Caprica]] at the end of the [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|episode]], it appears that the Cavils on ''Galactica'' are either lying about the Cylon change of heart or the Cylon plans changed after the second Cavil was captured on ''Galactica''.

The word ''cavil'' is a noun and verb involving an irrelevant or trivial point made during an argument or discussion; synonyms include ''quibble'' and ''carp.'' ([http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cavil Dictionary Reference])

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Cavil]]
[[Category:Cylons|Cavil]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Cavil]]
[[Category:RDM|Cavil]]

Number One

2006-10-10T19:54:00Z

Felix Culpa:

{{Character Data
|photo=Cavilo.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon Infiltrator, Priest
|rank=
|actor= [[Dean Stockwell]]
|cylon= y
|name= Cavil ?
}}

'''Cavil''' is a [[Cylon agent]] who, previous to being discovered, posed as a [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonial]] [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Clergy|priest]].

While other Cylon agents have a number associated with their model, such as [[Number Six]] and [[Number Three]], the number designation for the Cavil model is currently unknown.

==''Galactica'' Copy==

On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', the first viewed copy of Brother Cavil provides counsel for [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] after Tyrol's maddened attack against [[Cally]]. Cavil identifies the source of Tyrol's anxiety as arising from the fear that he could be a [[Cylon agent|Cylon sleeper agent]]. This Cavil seems to be personally very familiar with Tyrol and is apparently aware that [[Cally]] harbors romantic feelings for him ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). The significance of Cavil's interest in Tyrol's personal affairs, if any, is unknown.

A somewhat eccentric figure, Cavil is a surprisingly harsh critic of prayer for a priest, but claims to have been preaching "longer than you [Tyrol] have been sucking down oxygen" ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). This interesting claim, if true, implies that the humanoid [[Cylon agent]]s came into existence no later than approximately ten years after the end of the [[First Cylon War]] (assuming that Tyrol is approximately 30 years old). Whether Cavil is being truthful cannot be determined at this time.

Despite his cynicism, Cavil prays with [[Laura Roslin]] for her re-election to the presidency to be successful ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Caprica Copy==
[[Image:Cyca2.jpg|left|thumb|Caprican Cavil]]
A second copy of this model emerges from the crew of resistance members rescued by the Caprica [[SAR]] team, telling them that the Cylons had left the Colonies. What he does not tell them — until Tyrol blew his cover upon his arrival at ''Galactica'' — is that he is a Cylon.

Due to this copy's discovery, the Fleet copy is arrested as well and thrown in ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'''s brig. Laura Roslin orders them ejected into space after Caprica-Cavil informs her and Admiral Adama that the Cylons had made two mistakes: the attack on the Colonies and the pursuit of [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). Though their execution was not shown, a later conversation indicated that they were executed ([[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II, deleted scene]]).

Like his Fleet counterpart, the Caprica copy also expresses doubt in the active involvement of divine forces in the real world, although he focuses his contempt on the Cylon religion. Based on his conversation with the Fleet copy, this viewpoint appears to be shared between at least these two copies, and possibly across the entire model.

==New Caprica Copy==
[[Image:Cavz.jpg|thumb|right|A Cavil on New Caprica]]

At least two copies of Cavil are present in the invasion fleet on New Caprica, as seen in [[Occupation]] and [[Precipice]], though there are probably a lot more. They have some authority over humans in detainment, as one of the copies is bribed by sexual relations with [[Ellen Tigh]] into releasing [[Saul Tigh]]. This may have been a self-serving ruse, because after a second sexual encounter, Cavil says to her of Saul, "When's this next meeting with the insurgents?" and "we know he's their leader - why do you think we let him out of detention?". Ellen replies, "I thought it was because of the 'twist'", referring to a sex act, and Cavil says, "oh, yes, that too."

Two copies, possibly those same two, are also involved in the Cylon leaders' discussions such as whether to kill [[Gauis Baltar]].

Another copy (or perhaps one of the previous two) also acts as a type of liaison between the [[New Caprica Police|NCP]] and their Cylon masters. He gives [[Jammer]] the list of Colonials to detain, and later accompanies the NCP to the site of a mass execution of Colonial Detainees.

==Analysis==
The Cavils appear to be very radical thinkers, and demonstrate a unity among the model not seen in any other. Copies appear to have a well-developed sense of sardonic humor and are given to making jokes in even the most awkward, dangerous, and heightened circumstances ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]], [[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). They seem to have discovered many revelations that [[Caprica-Six]] realized through her "virtual" Baltar ([[Downloaded]]). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner.

In [[Occupation]] and [[Precipice]], the Cavils are the most ''outwardly'' ruthless and cruel to humans. Perhaps even more troubling, the Cavils appear to take pleasure (or at least a noticeable level of amusement) in their own atcs of psychological and physical cruelty. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). Viewers can infer (correctly or not) from the New Caprica detention scene between a Cavil and [[Saul Tigh]] that a Cavil is significantly involved in the brutal, months-long interrogation. In conversation with the other Cylons, Cavils are vocal and callous proponents of harsh measures against the [[New Caprica Resistance]] and are strong advocates of mass executions.

It is ironic that the first two known copies of this apparently atheistic model pose as clergymen. This may be an intentional mockery of religion on their part.

With the Cylons apparently occupying [[New Caprica]] at the end of the [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|episode]], it appears that the Cavils on ''Galactica'' are either lying about the Cylon change of heart or the Cylon plans changed after the second Cavil was captured on ''Galactica''.

The word ''cavil'' is a noun and verb involving an irrelevant or trivial point made during an argument or discussion; synonyms include ''quibble'' and ''carp.'' ([http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cavil Dictionary Reference])

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Cavil]]
[[Category:Cylons|Cavil]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Cavil]]
[[Category:RDM|Cavil]]

User talk:Felix Culpa

2006-08-20T04:14:37Z

Felix Culpa:

== Your name ==

"Felix Culpa"

*culpa: "fault, blame" (Latin)
*Felix: Lt. Felix Gaeta

"Gaeta's fault" (Baltar's presidency and the results thereof are due to Gaeta uncovering the fixed election.)

Is my interpretation correct? :) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:52, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

:Sorry to disappoint, it's just a Latin phrase which I have always liked, and as Mr. Avatar notes below, together means something along the lines of "Happy Guilt" or "Fortunate Guilt." It carries a connotation that, despite the fact something bad or blameworthy happened in the past, that in the end it will have turned out to be for the best. I have no real reason for liking the phrase or intent to apply it to anything specific though. I just always have liked the sound of it. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 11:54, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

:''Felix'' is Latin for "happy." This may or may not be relevant, as ultimately whatever interpretation Felix intends is the correct one. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:57, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

::Correct, and see comments above as well. I forgot to mention that I also like using Felix in a name because it was a cognomen applied to Lucius Cornelius Sulla. I also have a sideline in anicent Roman history. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 11:56, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

So you are saying you don't blame Lt. Gaeta? I don't either :) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:07, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

:No, Gaeta did what was right in a legal "democratic" sense, in refusing to go along with a subversion of the clear will of the majority. Would I have blamed him if he had kept his mouth shut and not reported the ballot tampering? No, because that also (and quite easily) could rationally be viewed as right under the circumstances. And we of course know that it would probably have been for the better, at least in the short term. But, right, wrong, or just one of an array of tough choices, hopefully it will make for some good drama in the second season. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:14, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

User talk:Felix Culpa

2006-08-19T17:14:57Z

Felix Culpa:

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==

Welcome to the Wiki, Felix Culpa. Feel free to tell us about yourself on [[User:Felix Culpa|your user page]]. Before you get started on other edits, please read the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions]], which details the policies we use in editing pages (this differs from many other wikis in consistent use of phrasing, abbreviations, format, and the like).

Also, if you have any questions or suggestions you wish to offer, please feel free to do so either on your user talk page, the [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|Wikipedian Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]]. Remember to sign your posts on any talk pages using four tildes (~~~~)! We look forward to your contributions to the community! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:28, 12 March 2006 (CST)

== Your name ==

"Felix Culpa"

*culpa: "fault, blame" (Latin)
*Felix: Lt. Felix Gaeta

"Gaeta's fault" (Baltar's presidency and the results thereof are due to Gaeta uncovering the fixed election.)

Is my interpretation correct? :) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:52, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

:Sorry to disappoint, it's just a Latin phrase which I have always liked, and as Mr. Avatar notes below, together means something along the lines of "Happy Guilt" or "Fortunate Guilt." It carries a connotation that, despite the fact something bad or blameworthy happened in the past, that in the end it will have turned out to be for the best. I have no real reason for liking the phrase or intent to apply it to anything specific though. I just always have liked the sound of it. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 11:54, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

:''Felix'' is Latin for "happy." This may or may not be relevant, as ultimately whatever interpretation Felix intends is the correct one. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:57, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

::Correct, and see comments above as well. I forgot to mention that I also like using Felix in a name because it was a cognomen applied to Lucius Cornelius Sulla. I also have a sideline in anicent Roman history. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 11:56, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

So you are saying you don't blame Lt. Gaeta? I don't either :) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:07, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

:No, Gaeta did what was right in a legal "democratic" sense, in refusing to go along with a subversion of the clear will of the majority. Would I have blamed him if he had kept his mouth shut and not reported the ballot tampering? No, because that also (and quite easily) could rationally be viewed as right under the circumstances. And we of course know that it would probably have been for the better, at least in the short term. But, right, wrong, or just one of an array of tough choices, hopefully it will make for some good drama in the second season. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:14, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Code blue/Archive 1

2006-08-18T17:43:00Z

Felix Culpa:

I think "Code Chrome" or "Code Silver" would have had a better ring to it. --18:16, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

It's more a generic "danger" warning than a specific "I saw a Cylon" warning. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
:"Code Blue" would suggest an emergency requiring the assistance of security not just that "omg its a frakking cylon" --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 03:09, 22 May 2006 (CDT)

If I had to guess, I would say it is a sort of "maximum vigilance" designator, i.e., as soon as it is invoked all personnel present are to draw weapons, prepare for violence, and otherwise watch very carefully what is happening. I too doubt it is necessarily a Cylon-specific warning, though that is possible. Clearly, it at least applies in that situation. Won't really know until we are told one way or the other. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:43, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

User:Felix Culpa

2006-08-18T17:09:50Z

Felix Culpa:

I am an attorney located in Huntsville, Alabama. As if these weren't bad enough, I am also a semi-obsessive Battlestar fan. Which makes sense really, why else would I take the time to maintain some presence on Battlestar Wiki if I did not have at least a passing like for the show?

For people so inclined, my myspace URL:

http://myspace.com/theoctoberhorse

Some thoughts/observations/ramdomalia.

-The new series is far and away superior to the original. I still have more of a sentimental attachment to the original, and miss the original musical theme (not to mention Maren Jensen), but the new series is simply fantastic and quite unique. Which is not to say it's perfect, but it's pretty damn good.

-I get argumentative sometimes, please bear with me. I am not trying to flame you. Furthermore, in the exceedingly remote event that I were to flame you, I would tell you I was doing so. Until then, it's all in the spirit of good fun. :)

-Other general sci-fi, "geekish" interests: Doctor Who (Tom Baker will always be the definite article, but I have been extremely happy with the new BBC series), Star Trek (not so much anymore, too many years of utter drek have now been offered under the Star Trek aegis, but I have hope for the future), Star Wars (ok, this one is obligatory), The Prisoner (possibly the best show ever aired on television).

-Other general obsessions: I am almost fanatical about all things ancient Rome. If you have never done so, I highly recommend Colleen McCullough's "Masters of Rome" series. The first book is titled "The First Man in Rome." Too many other varying interests to name effectively here. Oh yes, I know a few things about law.

User:Felix Culpa

2006-08-18T17:02:12Z

Felix Culpa:

User talk:Felix Culpa

2006-08-18T16:56:55Z

Felix Culpa:

User talk:Felix Culpa

2006-08-18T16:54:09Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2006-08-18T04:38:17Z

Felix Culpa:

== Categories ==
This page doesn't have any categories. I don't wish to read the spoiler stuff, but if somebody could kindly sort it I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, having stumbled into some spoiler-ish discussion on a talk page, I believe that categories on this page might end up being a spoiler themselves. I guess we can put categories on this once the cat is out of the proverbial bag. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:: We'll find out tonight, I guess. I'm looking forward to it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Article name ==

I believe it should be Cavil, not Brother Cavil, same as it's Cally, not Specialist Cally.
:Yep. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon? ==

Just from speculation based on the 'not at any of the cylon meetings' line, which is so similar to Six's line.

Also if he is a cylon he could be 'Number 1,' as that so far the lower the number the higher the age of the cylon. Perhaps that makes him the 'leader', that is, if cylon's have leaders in their 'society based on unity'.

Just a guess--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:12, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I doubt he is Number 1. Plus, as people keep on forgetting, Cylons only ''appear'' to age -- they don't actually grow up from infancy like humans do. They're made as old as they look (or as young as they look). Period. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Number 12, thus sinking the whole "model number sorted by age" thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::I agree, though I'll take it a step further and say that he is likely Number 12, and likely not Number 1. I think either we have not seen Number 1 yet in any form...or else Number 1 has been there from the beginning, and will be a big surprise for us. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:52, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Do we know if both discovered models were named Cavil? Because that makes me suspicious that their discovery together wouldn't be accidental. And especially with how in agreement they were even after being separately for months (presumably). I don't trust their words, especially now that the Colony was subjugated. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 12:42, 13 March 2006 (CST)

:::As far as I know, there's no on screen evidence of Caprica Cavil being called Cavil directly. We just call him "Caprica Cavil" for the sake of discerning the two different copies of that model, since we only know that model by Cavil. Hope that isn't as confusing as it reads... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:09, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Cavil and Cylon Aging ==
Regardless of whether or not the claim about preaching longer than Tyrol has been "sucking down oxygen" is correct, Cavil's apparent age (approximately 70, going by Dean Stockwell's real age) gives us some hints about the maturation of Humano-Cylons. It would be very safe to assume that the Cylons haven't been at this for a whole 70 years--otherwise, agents would probably have been introduced into Colonial society during the ''first'' war, instead of waiting for the second, and Baltar and Adama and every other survivor wouldn't have been surprised by the fact that they "look like us." A Humano-Cylon body, pre-download, seems to be either a) generated from scratch and resembling a particular age the moment it's ready (an instant twenty-something Sharon, early thirties Six, and late sixties/early seventies Cavil), or b) Cylon genes can be temporarily tweaked to accelerate an aging process that is usually human normal. Either way, the Cylons don't seem to spend 20-plus years generating a new body. Master geneticists that they are, why would they have to wait? -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:28, 18 March 2006 (EST).

:I thought (a) was the clear implication of "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Downloaded" - new Cylon bodies come pre-aged. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:21, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::Those technically weren't new bodies. They are copies, not clones, remember? A "new" body is exactly duplicated from an old one. By definition all will be the same age. So any aging would take place simultaneously across the whole model. Also, Dean Stockwell is ~70 but Cavil can be younger.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:11, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::Are you suggesting there's a stock supply of uninhabited Cylon bodies all aging simultaneously, a la Evangelion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:54, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::::Er, yes. That is what the Resurrection Ship (and whatever they have on their homeworld) is. My point is that when they make a new uninhabited body it's A Copy, Not A Clone, and thus the same age as the body it was copied from.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:41, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::::Every body in a Cylon model is the same. They are all twins, none is a clone of another. They are made in the resurrection Ship, that was visually implied by the whole stack of Sixes. The Cavils themeselves are proof that they are made the age they look. There are Cavils in pods looking exactly like they do. The "longer than.." comment was needed, he wouldn't say "I've been preaching for two years, since I'm a Cylon.." --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006

I removed the statement claiming that the humanoid cylons possibly came into existence thirty years prior to the time period in the show was contradicted by other evidence. It misunderstood the point of the previous statement (which I originally submitted), which does not argue that the infiltration of the colonies began that far back. It only suggests that the humanoid cylons came into being thirty or more years prior to the time of the series assuming Cavil was telling the truth about preaching longer than Tyrol had been sucking down oxygen. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 23:38, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil "Atheist" ==
It seems in their conversation that they came to a fairly Agnostic, not atheist, conclusion with the line "can't prove it one way or another." Thought? --posted by Xavier101
:No. Athiest. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:13, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Could be either, but I'm leaning towards atheist. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:53, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:They acknowledged it couldn't be proven but stated that they personally believe there is no God, thus they are atheists. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:34, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

== Sleep Agent ==
Is Galactica Cavil a sleeper agent? I tend to think that he is because he seems to have a fake history and seems that sleepers tend defend themselves strongly when accused of being a cylon. Notice the difference betweem Galactica Cavil and Caprica Cavil in their responses to being accused. I know the Cylon Party comment does weaken the argument. Thoughts? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:48, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:He wasn't a sleeper Agent as far as we know, in fact the easiness with which he "resumed" his Cylon status indicated that he was aware. The Caprican Cavil accepted it pretty quickly because eventually he planned to tell them, it was why he was there after all. The other Cavil still had his original mission to remain in secret. I take it sleepers normally don't respond well to the whole "Hey, you're a Cylon!" thing, which may be why boxing was invented, and was why Boomer had cuffs when she resurrected. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 11:20 26 June 2006 (CDT)
::In the continuity of the Miniseries novelization, Doral is a sleeper agent and he is discussed in great detail. His realization was like "flipping a switch." I know that doesn't mean much for the series, but I don't think that it is always a hard as Boomer found it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:45, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
I don't really think Cavil was a sleeper, because of how he acted with the Caprica copy. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:51, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

Number One

2006-08-18T04:33:59Z

Felix Culpa:

{{Character Data
|photo=Cyca2.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon Infiltrator, Priest
|rank=
|actor= [[Dean Stockwell]]
|cylon= y
|name= Cavil ?
}}

'''Cavil''' is a [[Cylon agent]] who, previous to being discovered, posed as a [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonial]] [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Priesthood|priest]].

While other Cylon agents have a number associated with their model, such as [[Number Six]] and [[Number Three]], the number designation for the Cavil model is currently unknown.

==''Galactica'' Copy==

On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', the first viewed copy of Brother Cavil provides counsel for [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] after Tyrol's maddened attack against [[Cally]]. Cavil identifies the source of Tyrol's anxiety as arising from the fear that he could be a [[Cylon agent|Cylon sleeper agent]]. This Cavil seems to be personally very familiar with [[Tyrol]] and is apparently aware that [[Cally]] harbors romantic feelings for him ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). The significance of Cavil's interest in [[Tyrol]]'s personal affairs, if any, is unknown.

A somewhat eccentric figure, Cavil is a surprisingly harsh critic of prayer for a priest, but claims to have been preaching "longer than you [Tyrol] have been sucking down oxygen" ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). This interesting claim, if true, implies that the humanoid [[Cylon agent]]s came into existence no later than approximately ten years after the end of the [[First Cylon War]] (assuming that Tyrol is approximately 30 years old). Whether Cavil is being truthful cannot be determined at this time.

Despite his cynicism, Cavil prays with [[Laura Roslin]] for her re-election to the presidency to be successful ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Caprica Copy==

A second copy of this model emerges from the crew of resistance members rescued by the Caprica [[SAR]] team, telling them that the Cylons had left the Colonies. What he does not tell them — until Tyrol blew his cover upon his arrival at ''Galactica'' — is that he is a Cylon.

Due to this copy's discovery, the Fleet copy is arrested as well and thrown in ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'''s brig. Laura Roslin orders them ejected into space after Caprica-Cavil informs her and Admiral Adama that the Cylons had made two mistakes: the attack on the Colonies and the pursuit of [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). It is unknown whether or not the copies have been actually executed.

Like his Fleet counterpart, the Caprica copy also expresses doubt in the active involvement of divine forces in the real world, although he focuses his contempt on the Cylon religion. Based on his conversation with the Fleet copy, this viewpoint appears to be shared between at least these two copies, and possibly across the entire model.

==Analysis==
The Cavils appear to be very radical thinkers, and demonstrate a unity among the model not seen in any other. Copies appear to have a well-developed sense of sardonic humor and are given to making jokes in even the most awkward or dangerous circumstances ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). They seem to have discovered many revelations that [[Caprica-Six]] realized through her "virtual" Baltar ([[Downloaded]]). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner.

It is a supreme irony that both known copies of this apparently atheistic model pose as clergymen. This may be an intentional mockery of religion on their part.

With the Cylons apparently occupying [[New Caprica]] at the end of the [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|episode]], it would appear that the Cavils on ''Galactica'' are lying about the Cylon change of heart, or the Cylon plans have changed after the second Cavil is captured on ''Galactica''.

The word ''cavil'' is a noun and verb involving an irrelevant or trivial point made during an argument or discussion; synonyms include ''quibble'' and ''carp.''[http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cavil]

[[Category:A to Z|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters|Cavil]]
[[Category:Cylons|Cavil]]
[[Category:RDM|Cavil]]

Richard Adar

2006-04-02T22:58:19Z

Felix Culpa: Grammatical change

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Adar2.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] (presumed)
|birthname= Richard Adar
|callsign=
|death= Killed in the Cylon holocaust (presumed)
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=Married, having an affair with Laura Roslin
|role= President, [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|The Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]
|rank=
|actor= [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Colm+Feore Colm Feore]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Richard Adar''' was the last president of the [[Twelve Colonies]] before the [[Cylon attack]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined]] [[Miniseries]]. He likely died, along with the [[Quorum of Twelve]], and his Cabinet -- in total, 42 officials in line of succession, during the attack which precipitated the near extinction of the human race.

Adar was serving his second term as president, and had previously served as a mayor ([[Miniseries]]). President Adar is succeeded by the 43rd official in line of succession, the Secretary of Education, [[Laura Roslin]], who was sworn in during the immediate aftermath of the attack aboard her government transport, a passenger liner desigated as ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]''. She was appointed as President by way of the automated [[Case Orange]] [[Government|government]] continuity mechanism via [[wireless]].

Prior to this, Adar had faced some political strife for military actions, the details of which are still unclear, which he himself apparently regretted. He reportedly wrote down the names of all the casualties of this act, leaving it in his desk as a reminder of his fallibility. President Roslin emulated her predecessor in this regard by writing the name of the ship ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' down and leaving it in her own desk aboard ''[[Colonial One]]'' as a reminder of her own fallibility ("[[Water]]").

Another of his actions in office was to offer a full pardon to [[Tom Zarek]] in exchange for the latter's renunciation of violence; Zarek turned down the offer ("[[Bastille Day]]").

Despite being a married man {{ref|magazine1}}, during the last days of his administration he was having an illicit romantic affair with his education secretary Laura Roslin.

Adar seemed to possess rather aggressive tendencies as President, as he was willing to use military action to resolve a drawn-out teacher strike (and the teachers started becoming violent). He didn't have a favourable opinion of Roslin's diplomatic solution to the problem and ultimately asked for her resignation because of it. He presumably died with a political and personal gulf between himself and his education secretary ("[[Epiphanies]]").

He was also an influential friend to [[Gaius Baltar]] ([[Miniseries]]).

[[William Adama|Admiral Adama]] considers President Adar to have been "a moron" ("[[Home, Part II]]").

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown, eventually [[Mueller (president)|Mueller]])''|title=[[Government|President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=[[Laura Roslin]]}}
{{end box}}

==Notes==

* Adar's counterpart in the [[TOS|original series]] was the president of the [[Quorum of Twelve (TOS)|Quorum of Twelve]] and [[Adar (TOS)|held the same name]].
*According to Sky One, earlier in his political career he was Mayor of [[Caprica City]], during which time he lead the city out of a high-crime, corrupt slump and back to its full potential. He later ran for Governor.
*[[Wikipedia:Adar|Adar]] is the name of the 6th month in the ecclesiastical year and 12th month of the civil year in the Hebrew calendar.
*The original script for "[[Home, Part II]]" called for Adama to refer to Adar as a "prick", but the line was edited to comply with broadcasting decency standards.
*In the [[Miniseries]] Adar was protrayed in picture form by producer [[David Eick]] in age-enhancing make-up.

==Sources==
#{{note|magazine1}} According to a December 2005 [http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Archives/dec05.html interview] with Mary McDonnell in TV Guide, President Adar was married when she was having her romance with him.

[[Category:A to Z|Adar, Richard]]
[[Category:Characters|Adar, Richard]]
[[Category:RDM|Adar, Richard]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Adar, Richard]]

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2006-03-17T18:52:51Z

Felix Culpa: /* Cylon? */

Talk:Maya/Archive 1

2006-03-17T15:50:03Z

Felix Culpa:

I find it interesting that Maya would end up assisting Roslin in the elementary school on New Caprica. So interesting in fact that it is unlikely to be coincidence: Roslin managed affairs somehow so that Maya and Hera/Isis would be in a position where she could keep tabs on them. Remember that Maya, so far as we know, has no idea of Hera's origin or significance other than the cover story of her having been the child of an unidentified ''Pegasus'' officer. It is also probable that Admiral Adama aided somehow in this placement of Maya near Roslin. While Baltar was clearly running the show in the year between the election and the fall of New Caprica to the Cylons, it would be a bit naive to assume that Admiral Adama was wholly without any power. Furthermore, Baltar apparently does not know of Hera's continued existence: Roslin and Admiral Adama clearly do. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 16:15, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Roslin was aware of Baltar's involvement with Six prior to the birth of Hera, so it's possible that when Isis was adopted, she kept him out of it intentionally. Also, Adama may not be aware- he wan't in the meeting we saw. Roslin almost certainly formed a friendship with Maya to keep an eye on them and make sure Baltar never guessed the truth. Adama didn't need to pull any strings, manipulate any aides. Why would Baltar care about Laura's assistant teacher? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:30, 16 March 2006 (EST)

:Because Adama knows whose child Hera really is, and has some idea that the Cylons consider her important. Baltar would not consider Maya important (except possibly as a physical diversion, she really is lovely), but as of right now, where Maya goes, so does Hera. Baltar would find that very important. I also have trouble believing that Adama just sat in orbit for a year while everything went to hell in a handbasket: he wasn't willing to subvert the democratic process, but that sure does not mean he was not ready and willing to take precautions and make preparations for the day when the Cylons returned. I think Adama had a contingency plan, and certainly kept his feelers out for important things like Hera and her status. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:37, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Don't get me wrong- I understand what you're saying, and I agree that the idea of Adama sitting in orbit for a year is pretty ridiculous. All I'm saying is that Adama wouldn't have needed to pull strings to get Maya to work with Roslin-if anything, Roslin and Adama probably just agreed to keep tabs on her and Isis. The child is simply too valuable to forget about. The only question is, will the Cylons know she lives? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 10:40, 17 March 2006 (EST)

: As far as we know, the Cylons haven't actually successfully conceived a hybrid outside Sharon/Helo. Therefore, the Cylons likely don't know ''exactly'' what they are looking for. As far as the Cylons know, Sharon had the baby but it died afterward. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:45, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I think we are in basic agreement. What is critical to me are the facts that (1) Maya and Hera/Isis are definitely under the eye of Roslin; (2) Adama knows who what Hera/Isis is and where she is; (3) Adama and Roslin are obviously close, or at least were close; and (4) Baltar apparently still knows nothing. In fact, I think it's possible (though we won't know til later) that Adama hesitated to retreat from New Caprica precisely because he wanted time to grab Hera (and maybe Roslin too) before leaving. Adama had to know there was no way they were going to get roughly 40,000 people off-planet and safely away before they were wiped out by the Cylon force. Lee knew it instantly, and said so. I think Adama was actually considering if he had time to evacuate some 'key' personnel and/or equipment, and realized either that he did not have time, or else that in itself might tip the Cylons to some things he did not want thme to know. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 09:50, 17 March 2006 (CST)

User:Felix Culpa

2006-03-17T03:51:16Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-17T03:45:20Z

Felix Culpa:

This isn't a battle, or a "fall" of anthing. Please see our Standards and Conventions page's Battle write up. This was an "event", but no ships engaged each other and no soldiers shot at anything. It should be deleted. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:38, 15 March 2006 (CST)

:While it is kind of a "fall", I agree it isn't really a battle. It's even less of a battle than Galactica vs Pegasus (and that one barely survived). No shots were fired in anger, and there wasn't even a serious threat that ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' would stay and fight. In Galactica vs Pegasus, both sides had their weapons ready and aimed at each other. In this instance, only one side was effectively armed. There's no doubt that this is a significant event that deserves to be described, but it's too much of a stretch to classify it as a battle. The actual battle text could be summed up as "The Cylons show up, the Colonial Fleet retreats." --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:20, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::I think it qualifies as a battle, or at least a rather significant military action, and was certainly a "fall," in fact, the fall and occupation of the newly established home planet of humanity. A massively superior Cylon force jumped in, the Adamas evaluated the siutation and made a tactical or strategic retreat from their position, which was then overrun by the Cylons. If this was not a "battle," (or at the absolute minimum a military event at least as significant as the "battle" between ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' in "Pegasus" and "Resurrection Ship, Part I") then neither was the fall of Saigon or the evacuation at Dunkirk in World War II. We can argue all day about the technical definition of a "battle" (and point me to the proper Standards and Conventions definition, I cannot find it on the standards and conventions page), but this is a significant event, and the page should remain. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 08:46, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::: Standards & Conventions can be found [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|here]], but there's nothing on it about the battle pages yet. Merv may be referring to the guidelines outlined in the talk page. I'll quote what I believe he is referring to:

:::<begin quote>
:::Generally, something deserves an article if:

:::* 1) A Colonial ship is destroyed (Vipers, Raptors, etc). They can't easily be replaced, and the loss of even one can be considered a blow. (The upcoming engagements in "Scar" might be a skirmish instead of a battle, depends how many ships are involved at once).
:::* 2) A massive number of Cylon vessels is destroyed, making the engagement a noteworthy event. For example, the "Great Cylon Turkey Shoot" resulted in no Colonial losses whatsoever, yet so many Cylons (hundreds of ships) were destroyed that it warrants it's own page.

:::An example of something that would not deserve it's own page is like when 2 Raiders were destroyed in "Final Cut", with no Colonial losses. No personnel or ships were lost, and the losses to the Cylons were insignificant in the extreme (considering that they still have production facilities and the Colonials do not).

:::As a rule of thumb, any engagement that involves a Battlestar or a Basestar firing it's own guns at the enemy is a "Battle" (Battle of the Coral Sea was a full scale battle, yet no enemy ships directly engaged each other; just fighters). However, if a Battlestar launches Vipers, but doesn't actually get involved in a small scale fight against enemy fightercraft, it's probably not a battle (case in point, "Skirmish over the Red Moon".
:::<end quote>
:::As for myself, I wouldn't necessarily advocate deleting all the content, but just moving it out of a "Battle" format. If we're to take the fall of Saigon as an example, we see that on wikipedia [[Wikipedia:Fall of Saigon|Fall of Saigon]] doesn't have a battle box. It's just got a description of the events. The evacuation at Dunkirk gets roped into the [[Wikipedia:Battle of Dunkirk|Battle of Dunkirk]], which is still a battle (with casualties on both sides). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::::I am the original author of this page, and I cannot see the logic behind deletion. Looking through pages that are considered battles, very few of them actually sound like battles. Galactica vs. Pegasus was more of a standoff, the so-called "Battle of Kobol" was no more a battle than the Enola Gay dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, and the Fall of the Twelve Colonies, by your logic, should be divided up into a battle of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards, the obvious battle around Caprica, the slaughter of Galactica's Mark VII Viper squadron, the first battle that Galactica participated in (when they were nuked), the destruction of Armistice Station, and the numerous other battles that happened. In terms of what consitutes a battle, it seems that the Battle of the Tilium Moon, the Battle of the Resurrection Ship, and the Battle of the Binary Star System are the only true battles. I think the battle pages should reflect the major events and engagements of the Second Cylon War (which in my opinion should be made into its own page and not redirect to the Fall of the Twelve Colonies). The Fall of New Caprica was without question the most important event in the Second Cylon War after the Fall of the Twelve Colonies and I do not see why it should not be treated as such.--[[User:Helmandsare|Helmandsare]] 11:24, 15 March 2006 (CST)

:::::Sorry to jump in here but why is it being called a 'fall' at all? Isn't it more of an 'occupation'? And I agree that it's not a battle; the Cylons arrived and the remains of the orbiting fleet ran off. --[[User:Misco|Misco]] 11:29, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:::::I have to agree that this should be deleted or at least the battle template. I don't see any fighting yet. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 11:46, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::::::I agree. Delete the battle template and merge the content into the New Caprica article. [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 11:49, 15 March 2006 (CST)

:::::::I can live with the battle template being deleted from this entry, but I am not sure it should be merged into the New Caprica article. I have to strenuously agree with Helmandsare that the fall of New Caprica, on its own merits, is one of the most significant events of the series so far. Let's leave the entry as "Fall of New Caprica" sans the battle template and leave it at that. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:19, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::::::::No, you haven't really given enough justification for that. It should realy be merged with "New Caprica".--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:41, 15 March 2006 (CST)

:::::::::I believe I have, but let's restate it. The arrival of the Cylons at New Caprica, the decision of the Adamas to flee in response, and the Cylon landing on and occupation of New Caprica (while all a part of the 'history' of New Caprica) is a momentous event in the Battlestar universe, and worthy of its own page whether it is designated as a 'battle' or not. Otherwise, all pages would be non-specific, and (for example) an entry on the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand would be unnecessary because it would be 'encompassed' by entries on World War I, Serajevo, Yugoslavia, or what have you. (The same logic applies, incidentally as I mentioned above, to the Fall of Saigon...that could be encompassed by the Vietnam War, Saigon, Vietnam, etc.). Now as to the internal editing of this entry, I agree it is mostly duplicative of the New Caprica entry, and should be shortened or else focused to deal with the facts directly related to the Cylons showing up, the Colonial fleet bugging out, and the Cylons landing on New Caprica unresisted. This may become an even more important entry (and worthy of more expansion) down the road as we learn a bit more about exactly what happened on that day. But I think the fact that it is a discrete event and one of the most important ones in the series is inarguable at this point, and it is deserving of its own page on this basis. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 14:51, 15 March 2006 (CST)

:::::::::::Adama getting shot was also a "momentous" event in the BSG universe. Finding the Tomb of Athena was a momentous event in the BSG universe. The birth of the Cylon/Human Hybrid Hera (she's the messiah) was a momentous event in the BSG universe. But they don't warrant their own pages. This is an online encyclopedia. We make up some special pages for terminology, battles, Cylon speculation, etc. but we're not writing a chapter book. None of the other "momentous" events are receiving their own page and neither should this one. We've already established that it's not a battle, but it appears that the consensus is in agreement that it's just restating things which should be said on "New Caprica". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 15:00, 15 March 2006 (CST)

:::::::::::::Momentous, yes, but not discrete or truly amenable to separate description/designation. "New Caprica" is a (theoretically) large subset of things, and encompasses every physical 'fact' about the planet as well as everything that happens on or in relation to it. Take this logic to its logical end, and there should only be one article on this entire wiki, entitled "Battlestar Galactica," containing absolutely all the information about the show. It makes perfect sense to segregate the fall of New Caprica, at least partially, into its own article because it is a major event. Adama having been shot and the birth of Hera are important events....they are also solely involve major (or potentially major) characters in the series, and are distinguishable on that basis alone. Major discrete '''happenings''' about which we have appreciable information (individual battles, the election, and yes, the fall of New Caprica) do deserve their own articles. See Peter Farago's comments below, I think he hit the nail on the head. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:22, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::I've found that a large portion of this information was already contained within the [[New Caprica]] article. Very little of this information can be considered unique in comparison to [[New Caprica]]. If you read the two articles you find nearly the same information. Therefore, the little information that is especially significant should be added to the New Caprica article and this article should be eliminated.--Zareck Rocks 13:57, 15 March 2006 (CST)

:::I agree that the information is mostly duplicative of the New Caprica article, but I still think it shoul dhave an abbreviated entry in its own right. See my comments above to The Merovingian. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 14:54, 15 March 2006 (CST)

This does not seem to be a popular opinion, but I believe that the occupation of New Caprica does deserve a position in the military timeline, especially since it features Baltar's surrender of the colonies to Cylon forces, and will probably form the backdrop for much of season 3. The [[Wikipedia:Occupation of Czechoslovakia|Occupation of Czechoslovakia]] was also initiated in a bloodless manner, but it would be foolish to argue that it wasn't a military event. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:20, 15 March 2006 (CST)

: Nicely put, I concur absolutely. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:22, 15 March 2006 (CST)

: I agree with this assessment as well, this page is a valid part of the military history of Battlestar Galactica. Just because the fight was bloodless and the government surrendered doesn't mean that this wasn't a significant military engagement. Not only do I think that this page shouldn't be deleted, I say that it should have the battle format. Naming conventions and standards are all well and good, but in this case they are clearly arbitrary and shouldn't be open to modification when necessary (especially when dealing with a show such as BSG). --[[User:Sdball|Sdball]] 14:24, 16 March 2006 (CST)

::At the very least, I think the consensus of us agreed that it isn't a "military" event and should lose the battle template. My own personal view is that it should be removed and merged back into "New Caprica".--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 17:18, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:::The consensus appears to be changing rather rapidly on this. Furthermore (and I mean this respectfully, I am not trying to flame you) how in the world can ten plus basestars jumping into New Caprica space followed immediately by a full retreat of all Colonial military forces from the system not be a "military" event? It may not be a "battle" (and that itself is debatable), but it is most definitely a profound military event...which is why the season ended on it, and why I suspect most of the next season will involve dealing with the aftermath of that decision. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:43, 16 March 2006 (CST)

: I think that this should stay. This is a military event. The front page should be cleaned up. --[[User:Quig|Quig]] 19:15, 16 March 2006 (CST)

By the way, while we are all arguing the definition of 'battle,' 'military event,' and general semantics, has anyone noticed that not a single person has referenced anything in the deletion standards page, and arged why this page should be deleted pursuant to those policies? It seems to me a bit silly to be arguing for deletion...without arguing for deletion. No one has made the case for deletion, at best some people have advanced an argument for modification. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:52, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:We haven't really worked on such a thing, to be honest. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:01, 16 March 2006 (CST)
::Well, there is [[Battlestar Wiki:Candidates for deletion]]. If someone is going to put the deletion tag on an article and argue for it to be done, the relevant section should be referenced/argued. (Sorry, it's the lawyer in me talking.). --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 21:17, 16 March 2006 (CST)
:::Hmmm, it doesn't meet any of those criteria as far as I can see.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:05, 16 March 2006 (EST)
::::Precisely my point. There is no good reason for the deletion of this page, at best people have (highly debatable) problems with its content/presentation. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 21:45, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-17T03:17:05Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Hera Agathon/Archive 1

2006-03-17T03:06:04Z

Felix Culpa:

I removed the 'Cylon agent' label, as Hera is only half-Biocylon and certainly not, at the present time, an agent working for the Cylons.
3/2/2006 21:24 P.M. by Noneofyourbusiness

:That's why, when I did a preliminary write up, I didn't check off "Cylon agent" by putting "y", but left "???" question marks, hoping someone would get to deciding on this eventually.
::Yes, but unfortunately that still caused the article to say 'Cylon agent'.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:35, 16 March 2006 (EST)

Frankly, I had the wacky idea that we should consider the Hybrids a third race with their own article, but this didn't meet with much support, and as Hera is the only current Hybrid, it doesn't make a lot of sense just yet. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:10, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:That makes perfect sense to me. The hybrids are definitionally different, and hugely important. Still, you are correct....not a whole lot to say about them just yet. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 21:06, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Someday, she will grow up to become one of the main characters of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|reimagined series]]. -- [[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 17:19, 5 March 2006 (CST)

::Anyone think we should put a cap of her very-cool debut in the Cylon Baby Commercial? --[[Sauron18|Sauron18]] 5 March 2006

== character name ==

"Isis" is the greek name of an Egyptian goddess. It's interesting that Maya would name her so. It's probably nothing, but since tha writers like to play games with names and callsigns, could it have any significance? Isis was associted with several Greek goddesses by Plutarch and Herodotus. [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:31, 16 March 2006 (EST)
:Both Hera and Isis are mother goddesses--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:36, 16 March 2006 (EST)

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-17T02:52:32Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-17T02:43:26Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Maya/Archive 1

2006-03-17T02:37:07Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Maya/Archive 1

2006-03-16T22:15:20Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Maya/Archive 1

2006-03-16T22:14:56Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-16T02:22:47Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-15T20:54:01Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-15T20:51:39Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-15T19:19:11Z

Felix Culpa:

Talk:Fall of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-03-15T14:46:23Z

Felix Culpa:

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-15T14:24:45Z

Felix Culpa: /* One Year Later */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]]) [[Kate Vernon]] ([[Ellen Tigh]]) [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] ([[Cavil|Brother Cavil]])
| Writer=[[IMDB:nm1093194|Anne Cofell Saunders]], [[IMDB:nm0894156|Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| Next= TBA
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], the marines, and the [[resistance (movement)|resistance]] continue to take fire from Cylon centurions and artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and Sharon remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity was spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared back to work by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut. [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', Tory mentions there's always a victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [[Wikipedia:Table (verb)|tabling]] the issue of colonization until after the election, which Baltar rejects.

*[[Laura Roslin|Roslin]], fearing that she has indeed lost the presidential race, confronts [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on whether he was with Six on Caprica before the Cylon attack. Baltar avoids answering the question & states that he may have saved her life, but he will not save her political life.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral Adama. She mentions the fact that the Cylons have left Caprica, and a man appearing to be Brother Cavil confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief Tyrol, who declares a "[[Code blue]]," claiming Cavil is a Cylon. Both Cavil and Caprica-Sharon are escorted to the brig under marine guard.

*The other Cavil (from last episode) is also taken to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Both Cavils then talk about the fact that the “war heroes” (Caprica Six & ''Galactica''-Sharon) have talked about how the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. They were told to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*In the brig, Caprica-Sharon is completely disillusioned and nihilistic, declaring that since her child's death, nothing - not Adama's trust, not even Helo - matters to her. A frustrated Helo insists that he's not giving up on her, but she seems disinclined to listen.

*Starbuck and Anders are getting extremely drunk when Apollo comes in to welcome them back. Starbuck makes a snide remark about Apollo and Dualla and goes back to drunkenly making out with Anders. Apollo, clearly upset with Starbuck, leaves without saying much.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left. On ''Colonial One'', Tory makes a call to ''Galactica'', putting a plan into action.

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. Gaeta makes a startling discovery regarding the votes, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying he has a confession to rig the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed.

*Baltar is informed of his election as President. He's less than pleased, vowing to have full investigation in time. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “New Caprica”.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*''[[Cloud 9]]'' is destroyed by a nuclear blast, Gina being present before the explosion; in addition to the ''Cloud 9'', at least three other ships are destroyed in the blast. Admiral Adama reports to the president that this may be a Cylon attack, but Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===
[[image:burdens2.jpg|Kara and Cottle on New Caprica.|thumb]]
*[[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]] is reporting to the President regarding a Union issue aboard Colonial One, now down on the planet. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now sporting a mustache, is walking around the near-empty Galactica, which is quickly falling into disarray. Over half of the crew have moved down onto the planet, and they are running on such a skeleton crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less a good CAP. Adama has a discussion with Tigh about going down to the planet, which Tigh reluctantly agrees to do.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Kara’s husband, has pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is unable to treat Anders because there are no antibiotics available. He can only advise Kara to make sure Anders gets enough rest and with a little luck he "should" pull through.

*Kara runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, with a very pregnant Cally by his side. Saul mentions that ''Pegasus'' keeps the backup medical supplies and that Apollo would spring some for Starbuck. Starbuck disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Apollo should be "over that by now".

*Roslin is doing what she does best, teaching the settlement's children, and manages to find enjoyment in her new position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year old [[Hera]], whom Maya has named "Isis".

*Kara calls Lee aboard ''Pegasus'', requesting the antibiotics. Dualla, now an officer and most likely Lee's XO, notices something on the [[DRADIS]].

*A fleet of [[Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas discuss what to do in response, with Lee initially advocating that the fleet jump away, and Admiral Adama initially resisting the suggestion. However, Lee apparently brings the Admiral around to his way of thinking (or Admiral Adama comes to the conclusion on his own) when [[Helo]] asks if alert fighters should be launched. Admiral Adama keeps the alert fighters in and jumps the fleet ships remaining in orbit around [[New Caprica]] to an unknown location, vowing that he will return. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]) (See also [[Fall of New Caprica]]).

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Numbers [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar, after learning that the Cylons discovered New Caprica because of the nuke explosion set off by Gina, declares surrender on behalf of the colonists. As Cylon armies occupy the planet, Kara vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*Who is Baltar's vice president?
*What "number" is Cavil?
*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?
*Where did the defense fleet jump to?
*Where is Caprica-Sharon?
*What happened to Zarek?
*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?
*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.
*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]?
*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].
*Did the nuclear bomb ever get picked up by the fleet's radiological alarms?
*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
*When Gina-Six was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed?
*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuke to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it?
*Did the events of "One Year Later" actually happen, or were they a dream or vision sequence given to Baltar?
*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?
*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?
*Why have the Cylons returned after suggesting that they were willing to go their "separate ways"?
*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?
*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?
*How many people are left in the Fleet? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
*Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?
*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck?
*What led to Starbuck's reconciliation with Col. Tigh? The two had been in conflict since the [[Miniseries]], what led them to bury the hatchet and become the close friends they now appear to be?
*Has it become public knowledge that Baltar killed [[Crashdown]] on [[Kobol]]? Now that Chief and Cally are Baltar's open adversaries they could attempt to use this information against him.
*When Adama informs Baltar that the nuke used to blow up [[Cloud Nine]] was probably stolen form Gaius' lab, why is he not suspicious about the fact that Baltar never reported that it was missing? Had it really been stolen from his lab, he would surely notice.
*Are the Cylons that appear at the end representative of the whole Cylon race, or are they a faction that broke off after the two "Cylon Hereos" began to speak out against the war on the humans?
*If it is true that the Cylons now believe the attack on humanity was a mistake, is the occupation on New Caprica viewed by the Cylons as an act of mercy and kindness vs. oppression from the human perspective?

== Analysis ==
*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica—he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a larger, elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the landed Colonial One.
*After a whole year, everyone is still living in tents. There is a vital shortage of medicine, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.
*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard Pegasus while everyone else goes planetside—he is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
**Who says he didn't build a bar for them? However, despite building a bar, he would still command the Pegasus.
*Ron Moore has once again decided to play with viewer's expectations; in the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Here, many viewers assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' this time, but it wasn't.
*29 people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**Is it possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***They didn't remove Starbuck from the count when she left for Caprica at the beginning of Season 2.
****She left at the end of season one, before they started the count. But, they did not add her to the count when she returned with Helo, because the count rose by one.
**Maybe more people died during the attack on Caprica than was shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
**There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.
*The year gap for the Cylons to find the fleet at first seems odd. However, it was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out. In addition, the radiation from the nuclear explosion aboard the ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' would, of course, only be traveling at the speed of light. Even a less catastrophic attempt to communicate the Colonial's new location would be limited to the speed of light. Of course, once the location was pinpointed, an FTL jump by the Cylons to pounce would be instantaneous.
*The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and surrounding Fleet ships but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
**Watching the Fleet jump in slow-motion, you can count approximately 19 ships, which also gives a rough impression of the reduced size of the fleet. Other ships, including Colonial One and some Raptors, are landed on New Caprica and have presumably fallen into the hands of the Cylons.
**It is not explicitly said that all members of the New Caprica colony reside in New Caprica City. There may be outlying settlements, though none are named. One reason for this would simply be as a safeguard to keep a single nuclear strike from wiping out all of the fleet survivors.
***This would demonstrate Un-Baltar like prudence

== Notes ==
* '''According to Ron Moore's podcast, although Scifi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible".''' Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version. This may not be the case in the UK however as Skyone (the channel that broadcasts the show in that country) previously showed the full 90 minute version of Stargate SG1 episode 'Threads' and may well do the same for this episode.
* Ron Moore's podcast for episode 13, [[Epiphanies]], states that the Nuke given to Gina will come back in this episode, to the benefit of the Cylons.
*Admiral Adama watches Pyramid games and is a fan of the Picon Panthers.
*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from. Ship names visible on the chart are: Demetrius, Diomedes, Embla Brokk, Enkidu, Epheme, Galactica, Gideon, Gemenon Traveller, Greenleaf, Monarch, Odysseus, Pegasus, Persephone, Prometheus, Swordfish
*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on her desk during the election.
*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.
*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned in by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.
*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.
*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.
*Baltar's portrait of himself does not have the 'cut corners' as seen in most (all?) other papers and photos in the show.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Dr. Cottle decides Cally is ready to return to duty:''
:'''Cottle:''' You're done here. I'm kickin' you out of here and sending you back to work.
:'''Cally:''' (muffled, because her jaw is immobilized) Work??? Like this?
:'''Cottle:''' You gotta love a woman who can complain even with her jaw wired shut.

*"Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(''sees the other Cavil in the cell'')…oh. Well, okay then."
*:—'''Brother Cavil'''

*"Gods help us."
*:-'''Admiral Adama''' over the objection of [[Edward James Olmos]] (podcast)

*''Trying to bring order to a Union meeting:''
:'''Tyrol:''' Everyone, please be quiet. (''crowd ignores him'')
:'''Cally:''' Hey! Shut the frak up! (''crowd quiets down'')

*'''Admiral Adama:''' We're leaving. But we'll be back.

*''On Caprica:''
::'''Anders:''' You got any great ideas in that military brain of yours?
::'''Starbuck:''' Do the same thing we always do; fight 'em 'till we can't.
:''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
::'''Tyrol:''' "What do you want to do now, Captain?"
::'''Starbuck:''' "The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Winston Rekert as Priest

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-15T14:20:49Z

Felix Culpa: /* One Year Later */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]]) [[Kate Vernon]] ([[Ellen Tigh]]) [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] ([[Cavil|Brother Cavil]])
| Writer=[[IMDB:nm1093194|Anne Cofell Saunders]], [[IMDB:nm0894156|Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| Next= TBA
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], the marines, and the [[resistance (movement)|resistance]] continue to take fire from Cylon centurions and artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and Sharon remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity was spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared back to work by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut. [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', Tory mentions there's always a victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [[Wikipedia:Table (verb)|tabling]] the issue of colonization until after the election, which Baltar rejects.

*[[Laura Roslin|Roslin]], fearing that she has indeed lost the presidential race, confronts [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on whether he was with Six on Caprica before the Cylon attack. Baltar avoids answering the question & states that he may have saved her life, but he will not save her political life.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral Adama. She mentions the fact that the Cylons have left Caprica, and a man appearing to be Brother Cavil confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief Tyrol, who declares a "[[Code blue]]," claiming Cavil is a Cylon. Both Cavil and Caprica-Sharon are escorted to the brig under marine guard.

*The other Cavil (from last episode) is also taken to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Both Cavils then talk about the fact that the “war heroes” (Caprica Six & ''Galactica''-Sharon) have talked about how the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. They were told to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*In the brig, Caprica-Sharon is completely disillusioned and nihilistic, declaring that since her child's death, nothing - not Adama's trust, not even Helo - matters to her. A frustrated Helo insists that he's not giving up on her, but she seems disinclined to listen.

*Starbuck and Anders are getting extremely drunk when Apollo comes in to welcome them back. Starbuck makes a snide remark about Apollo and Dualla and goes back to drunkenly making out with Anders. Apollo, clearly upset with Starbuck, leaves without saying much.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left. On ''Colonial One'', Tory makes a call to ''Galactica'', putting a plan into action.

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. Gaeta makes a startling discovery regarding the votes, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying he has a confession to rig the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed.

*Baltar is informed of his election as President. He's less than pleased, vowing to have full investigation in time. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “New Caprica”.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*''[[Cloud 9]]'' is destroyed by a nuclear blast, Gina being present before the explosion; in addition to the ''Cloud 9'', at least three other ships are destroyed in the blast. Admiral Adama reports to the president that this may be a Cylon attack, but Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===
[[image:burdens2.jpg|Kara and Cottle on New Caprica.|thumb]]
*[[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]] is reporting to the President regarding a Union issue aboard Colonial One, now down on the planet. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now sporting a mustache, is walking around the near-empty Galactica, which is quickly falling into disarray. Over half of the crew have moved down onto the planet, and they are running on such a skeleton crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less a good CAP. Adama has a discussion with Tigh about going down to the planet, which Tigh reluctantly agrees to do.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Kara’s husband, has pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is unable to treat Anders because there are no antibiotics available. He can only advise Kara to make sure Anders gets enough rest and with a little luck he "should" pull through.

*Kara runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, with a very pregnant Cally by his side. Saul mentions that ''Pegasus'' keeps the backup medical supplies and that Apollo would spring some for Starbuck. Starbuck disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Apollo should be "over that by now".

*Roslin is doing what she does best, teaching the settlement's children, and manages to find enjoyment in her new position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year old [[Hera]], whom Maya has named "Isis".

*Kara calls Lee aboard ''Pegasus'', requesting the antibiotics. Dualla, now an officer and most likely Lee's XO, notices something on the [[DRADIS]].

*A fleet of [[Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas discuss what to do in response, with Lee initially advocating that the fleet jump away, and Admiral Adama initially resisting the suggestion. However, Lee apparently brings the Admiral around to his way of thinking (or Admiral Adama comes to the conclusion on his own) when [[Helo]] asks if alert fighters should be launched. Admiral Adama keeps them in as [[Fall of New Caprica|defense fleet jumps away]].

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Numbers [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar, after learning that the Cylons discovered New Caprica because of the nuke explosion set off by Gina, declares surrender on behalf of the colonists. As Cylon armies occupy the planet, Kara vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*Who is Baltar's vice president?
*What "number" is Cavil?
*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?
*Where did the defense fleet jump to?
*Where is Caprica-Sharon?
*What happened to Zarek?
*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?
*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.
*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]?
*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].
*Did the nuclear bomb ever get picked up by the fleet's radiological alarms?
*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
*When Gina-Six was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed?
*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuke to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it?
*Did the events of "One Year Later" actually happen, or were they a dream or vision sequence given to Baltar?
*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?
*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?
*Why have the Cylons returned after suggesting that they were willing to go their "separate ways"?
*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?
*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?
*How many people are left in the Fleet? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
*Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?
*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck?
*What led to Starbuck's reconciliation with Col. Tigh? The two had been in conflict since the [[Miniseries]], what led them to bury the hatchet and become the close friends they now appear to be?
*Has it become public knowledge that Baltar killed [[Crashdown]] on [[Kobol]]? Now that Chief and Cally are Baltar's open adversaries they could attempt to use this information against him.
*When Adama informs Baltar that the nuke used to blow up [[Cloud Nine]] was probably stolen form Gaius' lab, why is he not suspicious about the fact that Baltar never reported that it was missing? Had it really been stolen from his lab, he would surely notice.
*Are the Cylons that appear at the end representative of the whole Cylon race, or are they a faction that broke off after the two "Cylon Hereos" began to speak out against the war on the humans?
*If it is true that the Cylons now believe the attack on humanity was a mistake, is the occupation on New Caprica viewed by the Cylons as an act of mercy and kindness vs. oppression from the human perspective?

== Analysis ==
*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica—he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a larger, elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the landed Colonial One.
*After a whole year, everyone is still living in tents. There is a vital shortage of medicine, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.
*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard Pegasus while everyone else goes planetside—he is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
**Who says he didn't build a bar for them? However, despite building a bar, he would still command the Pegasus.
*Ron Moore has once again decided to play with viewer's expectations; in the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Here, many viewers assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' this time, but it wasn't.
*29 people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**Is it possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***They didn't remove Starbuck from the count when she left for Caprica at the beginning of Season 2.
****She left at the end of season one, before they started the count. But, they did not add her to the count when she returned with Helo, because the count rose by one.
**Maybe more people died during the attack on Caprica than was shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
**There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.
*The year gap for the Cylons to find the fleet at first seems odd. However, it was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out. In addition, the radiation from the nuclear explosion aboard the ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' would, of course, only be traveling at the speed of light. Even a less catastrophic attempt to communicate the Colonial's new location would be limited to the speed of light. Of course, once the location was pinpointed, an FTL jump by the Cylons to pounce would be instantaneous.
*The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and surrounding Fleet ships but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
**Watching the Fleet jump in slow-motion, you can count approximately 19 ships, which also gives a rough impression of the reduced size of the fleet. Other ships, including Colonial One and some Raptors, are landed on New Caprica and have presumably fallen into the hands of the Cylons.
**It is not explicitly said that all members of the New Caprica colony reside in New Caprica City. There may be outlying settlements, though none are named. One reason for this would simply be as a safeguard to keep a single nuclear strike from wiping out all of the fleet survivors.
***This would demonstrate Un-Baltar like prudence

== Notes ==
* '''According to Ron Moore's podcast, although Scifi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible".''' Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version. This may not be the case in the UK however as Skyone (the channel that broadcasts the show in that country) previously showed the full 90 minute version of Stargate SG1 episode 'Threads' and may well do the same for this episode.
* Ron Moore's podcast for episode 13, [[Epiphanies]], states that the Nuke given to Gina will come back in this episode, to the benefit of the Cylons.
*Admiral Adama watches Pyramid games and is a fan of the Picon Panthers.
*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from. Ship names visible on the chart are: Demetrius, Diomedes, Embla Brokk, Enkidu, Epheme, Galactica, Gideon, Gemenon Traveller, Greenleaf, Monarch, Odysseus, Pegasus, Persephone, Prometheus, Swordfish
*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on her desk during the election.
*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.
*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned in by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.
*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.
*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.
*Baltar's portrait of himself does not have the 'cut corners' as seen in most (all?) other papers and photos in the show.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Dr. Cottle decides Cally is ready to return to duty:''
:'''Cottle:''' You're done here. I'm kickin' you out of here and sending you back to work.
:'''Cally:''' (muffled, because her jaw is immobilized) Work??? Like this?
:'''Cottle:''' You gotta love a woman who can complain even with her jaw wired shut.

*"Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(''sees the other Cavil in the cell'')…oh. Well, okay then."
*:—'''Brother Cavil'''

*"Gods help us."
*:-'''Admiral Adama''' over the objection of [[Edward James Olmos]] (podcast)

*''Trying to bring order to a Union meeting:''
:'''Tyrol:''' Everyone, please be quiet. (''crowd ignores him'')
:'''Cally:''' Hey! Shut the frak up! (''crowd quiets down'')

*'''Admiral Adama:''' We're leaving. But we'll be back.

*''On Caprica:''
::'''Anders:''' You got any great ideas in that military brain of yours?
::'''Starbuck:''' Do the same thing we always do; fight 'em 'till we can't.
:''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
::'''Tyrol:''' "What do you want to do now, Captain?"
::'''Starbuck:''' "The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Winston Rekert as Priest

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

New Caprica

2006-03-14T14:10:46Z

Felix Culpa:

''For the Video Game's "New Caprica", see [[New Caprica (Video Game)]].''

[[Image:NewCaprica.jpg|thumb|right|'''New Caprica''' as seen from space.]]
'''New Caprica''' is the name given to the harsh but fairly habitable planet found by [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]]. It was discovered by [[Racetrack]] by mere happenstance -- after the [[Raptor]] she was in [[FTL|Jumped]] to the wrong coordinates.

Due to the surrounding nebulae, [[DRADIS]] is rendered practically useless -- an attribute which made the planet prime for colonization by [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]'s survivors. With this news, and unable to continue jumping to Caprica, Racetrack jumped back to ''[[Galactica]]'', providing information and sensor readings on the planet.

The planet later becomes a galvanizing issue which [[Tom Zarek]] believes -- and believes correctly -- would swing the vote Baltar's way ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).

Due to [[Baltar]]'s ascension to the presidency, he ordered the colonization of the planet. Settling on the planet, the major population center on New Caprica became [[New Caprica City]], which itself is populated by over 39,000 survivors. Over a year after settlement, there were major shortages of basic living materials and medical supplies. Most of the population still lived in canvas tents instead of permanent homes of some sort. It appears many among the population of [[New Caprica City]], including [[Tyrol]] and the workers' union which he now leads, blame [[Baltar]] and his policies as president for most or all of the continuing economic/social problems facing the settlers on [[New Caprica]]. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

380 days after colonization, the [[Cylons]] discover New Caprica, lured by the energy signature caused by the detonation of the nuclear warhead that destroyed the [[Cloud 9]]. When the Cylon fleet jumped into orbit, the fleet jumps away to an unknown location while President Baltar surrenders ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). Obviously, these events will have some effect on the permanence of New Caprica as a homeworld for humanity.

The exact population of New Caprica City is 39,192.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Planets]]
[[Category:RDM]]

New Caprica

2006-03-14T14:10:13Z

Felix Culpa:

''For the Video Game's "New Caprica", see [[New Caprica (Video Game)]].''

[[Image:NewCaprica.jpg|thumb|right|'''New Caprica''' as seen from space.]]
'''New Caprica''' is the name given to the harsh but fairly habitable planet found by [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]]. It was discovered by [[Racetrack]] by mere happenstance -- after the [[Raptor]] she was in [[FTL|Jumped]] to the wrong coordinates.

Due to the surrounding nebulae, [[DRADIS]] is rendered practically useless -- an attribute which made the planet prime for colonization by [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]'s survivors. With this news, and unable to continue jumping to Caprica, Racetrack jumped back to ''[[Galactica]]'', providing information and sensor readings on the planet.

The planet later becomes a galvanizing issue which [[Tom Zarek]] believes -- and believes correctly -- would swing the vote Baltar's way ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).

Due to [[Baltar]]'s ascension to the presidency, he ordered the colonization of the planet. Settling on the planet, the major population center on New Caprica became [[New Caprica City]], which itself is populated by over 39,000 survivors. Over a year after settlement, there were major shortages of basic living materials and medical supplies. Most of the population still lived in canvas tents instead of permanent homes of some sort. It appears many among the population of [[New Caprica City]], including [[Tyrol]] and the workers' union which he now leads, blame [[Baltar]] and his policies as presdient for most or all of the continuing economic/social problems facing the settlers on [[New Caprica]]. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

380 days after colonization, the [[Cylons]] discover New Caprica, lured by the energy signature caused by the detonation of the nuclear warhead that destroyed the [[Cloud 9]]. When the Cylon fleet jumped into orbit, the fleet jumps away to an unknown location while President Baltar surrenders ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). Obviously, these events will have some effect on the permanence of New Caprica as a homeworld for humanity.

The exact population of New Caprica City is 39,192.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Planets]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Margaret Edmondson

2006-03-14T14:04:39Z

Felix Culpa: /* Biography */

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:MaggieCrop.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony=
|birthname= Margaret Edmonson
|callsign= Racetrack
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= [[Raptor]] [[ECO]], assigned to [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''
|rank= Lieutenant (Junior Grade)
|actor= [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Leah+Cairns Leah Cairns]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Lt. Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson''' is a female [[ECO]] aboard [[battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''. She harbors a deep hatred of the Cylons, almost certainly because of the loss of loved ones during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. In her job she is competent and trusted, although she is willing to put her personal beliefs above duty. Racetrack tends to have a dark, fairly cynical attitude after the humans lost everything in the Cylon attack.

== Biography ==
Racetrack accompanies [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|LT (j.g.) Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] on a mission to destroy a Cylon [[basestar (RDM)|basestar]]. She witnesses Boomer's attempted [[assassination]] of [[William Adama]] in ''Galactica's'' [[CIC]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Immediately after, she informs the CIC staff that Boomer returned from placing the nuclear warhead inside the basestar orbiting [[Kobol]] without her helmet on, and that she probably gave away ''Galactica's'' position to the Cylons ("[[Scattered]]").

Racetrack pilots the Raptor carrying [[Lee Adama]]'s [[SAR]] mission to Kobol, encountering fire from Cylon anti-aircraft missiles. [[Galen Tyrol]] fells the missiles' [[DRADIS]] dish on the surface, and they fail to lock on. Racetrack's Raptor then destroys the [[Cylon Centurian|Centurian]]s on the ground with a volley of missles, and recovers the trapped ''Galactica'' crewmen. ("[[Fragged]]")

Racetrack aids the escape of President [[Laura Roslin]] from the brig by falsely claiming that her Raptor was having technical problems, enabling the furloughed Lee Adama to report to the hangar bay instead of the brig per his arrest. She then helps prep the Raptor used as the escape craft for launch, but remains on ''Galactica'' ([[Resistance]]). On Boomer's death, Edmonson becomes the only person in the Fleet who has seen the inside of a basestar.

Racetrack serves as ECO on [[Raptor 1]], plotting the best point of orbital entry when taking Commander Adama to [[Kobol]] to find and meet with President Roslin ([[Home, Part II]]). Since then, Margaret flies basic supply runs between ''Galactica'' and [[The Fleet (RDM)|the fleet]]. She continues to light candles for fallen comrades in the Cylon attack. She is almost certain she will eventually die on a mission, and is more focused on taking out as many Cylons as she can before that happens ([[Final Cut]]).

Racetrack, along with many other pilots, intially snubs [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] upon his return because of his romantic relationship with the Caprica-originated copy of Sharon Valerii. After she insults [[Kara Thrace]] over the matter, Starbuck pushes Racetrack face-first into a card table ("[[Flight of the Phoenix]]"). Racetrack later congratulates Helo on his help with the [[Blackbird]], whose [[DRADIS]]-absorbing carbon composites Helo suggested, which serves as a quiet apology for her earlier rudeness.

[[Image:Racetrack2.jpg|left|thumb|200px|Edmonson on Raptor duty.]]
Racetrack is particularly overjoyed when ''Galactica'' encounters the [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. While she socializes with ''Pegasus'' pilots in the hangar bay, she fails to understand Starbuck's contempt for the "scorecards" on which they tally their kills ("[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]"). Racetrack's raptor rescues the unconscious Apollo during the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]], and she revives him using defibrilator paddles in her emergency gear ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]). When Racetrack transports Apollo and a squad of Marines to check the ''[[Daru Mozu]]'' for signs of sabotage by Cylon sympathizers, her vessel narrowly escapes the ensuing explosion ([[Epiphanies]]). Racetrack also later flew a Raptor transporting Apollo back from [[Cloud 9]] after he spent some off duty time there with [[Shevon]] ([[Black Market]]).

Racetrack is flying a Raptor as part of Starbuck's rescue mission plan to send 20 Raptors back to Caprica to pick up survivors, by making a series of ten FTL Jumps. On the first Jump, Racetrack's Raptor jumps to the wrong coordinates, ending up in a gas cloud. Starbuck and the main group proceed on without her. Preparing to return to ''Galactica'', Racetrack picks up a lot of gravity distortions on her sensors and upon clearing the gas cloud Racetrack discovers an inhabitable planet that the Fleet could colonize ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Though the planet turned out to be marginally habitable at best, it would later be named [[New Caprica]], and most of the human survivors of the fleet would settle down there permanently. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). The discovery of [[New Caprica]] by the Cylons approximately a year after settlement will no doubt have some effect upon the permanence of the human settlement there. It is not currently known whether Racetrack herself settled on [[New Caprica]] (as many military personnel appear to have done), or whether she remained with the fleet and jumped away when the Cylons arrived. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Notes==

*Racetrack was probably created as a replacement for [[Crashdown]] and his role as ECO of the Raptor a given episode focuses on (as Crashdown himself was created as a replacement for [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] after he was stranded). Racetrack was introduced in the first season finale and the seeds of Crashdown's demise - signs of his incompetence for command while stranded on Kobol - were already planted in that episode.
*Racetrack's name was revealed in the episode "[[Final Cut]]".
*Ron Moore noted in his [[podcast]] of Racetrack's debut episode "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" that she was only meant to be a one-shot character, like [[Karl Agathon|Helo]]. But, just as with [[Tahmoh Penikett]]'s performance in the [[Mini-Series]], the production staff and [[TPTB|the powers that be]] were so impressed with actress Leah Cairns' performance in the episode that they decided to keep her on as a new recurring character.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Edmonson, Margaret]]
[[Category:Characters|Edmonson, Margaret]]
[[Category:RDM|Edmonson, Margaret]]

Margaret Edmondson

2006-03-14T14:02:06Z

Felix Culpa: /* Biography */

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:MaggieCrop.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony=
|birthname= Margaret Edmonson
|callsign= Racetrack
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= [[Raptor]] [[ECO]], assigned to [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''
|rank= Lieutenant (Junior Grade)
|actor= [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Leah+Cairns Leah Cairns]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Lt. Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson''' is a female [[ECO]] aboard [[battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''. She harbors a deep hatred of the Cylons, almost certainly because of the loss of loved ones during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. In her job she is competent and trusted, although she is willing to put her personal beliefs above duty. Racetrack tends to have a dark, fairly cynical attitude after the humans lost everything in the Cylon attack.

== Biography ==
Racetrack accompanies [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|LT (j.g.) Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] on a mission to destroy a Cylon [[basestar (RDM)|basestar]]. She witnesses Boomer's attempted [[assassination]] of [[William Adama]] in ''Galactica's'' [[CIC]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Immediately after, she informs the CIC staff that Boomer returned from placing the nuclear warhead inside the basestar orbiting [[Kobol]] without her helmet on, and that she probably gave away ''Galactica's'' position to the Cylons ("[[Scattered]]").

Racetrack pilots the Raptor carrying [[Lee Adama]]'s [[SAR]] mission to Kobol, encountering fire from Cylon anti-aircraft missiles. [[Galen Tyrol]] fells the missiles' [[DRADIS]] dish on the surface, and they fail to lock on. Racetrack's Raptor then destroys the [[Cylon Centurian|Centurian]]s on the ground with a volley of missles, and recovers the trapped ''Galactica'' crewmen. ("[[Fragged]]")

Racetrack aids the escape of President [[Laura Roslin]] from the brig by falsely claiming that her Raptor was having technical problems, enabling the furloughed Lee Adama to report to the hangar bay instead of the brig per his arrest. She then helps prep the Raptor used as the escape craft for launch, but remains on ''Galactica'' ([[Resistance]]). On Boomer's death, Edmonson becomes the only person in the Fleet who has seen the inside of a basestar.

Racetrack serves as ECO on [[Raptor 1]], plotting the best point of orbital entry when taking Commander Adama to [[Kobol]] to find and meet with President Roslin ([[Home, Part II]]). Since then, Margaret flies basic supply runs between ''Galactica'' and [[The Fleet (RDM)|the fleet]]. She continues to light candles for fallen comrades in the Cylon attack. She is almost certain she will eventually die on a mission, and is more focused on taking out as many Cylons as she can before that happens ([[Final Cut]]).

Racetrack, along with many other pilots, intially snubs [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] upon his return because of his romantic relationship with the Caprica-originated copy of Sharon Valerii. After she insults [[Kara Thrace]] over the matter, Starbuck pushes Racetrack face-first into a card table ("[[Flight of the Phoenix]]"). Racetrack later congratulates Helo on his help with the [[Blackbird]], whose [[DRADIS]]-absorbing carbon composites Helo suggested, which serves as a quiet apology for her earlier rudeness.

[[Image:Racetrack2.jpg|left|thumb|200px|Edmonson on Raptor duty.]]
Racetrack is particularly overjoyed when ''Galactica'' encounters the [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. While she socializes with ''Pegasus'' pilots in the hangar bay, she fails to understand Starbuck's contempt for the "scorecards" on which they tally their kills ("[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]"). Racetrack's raptor rescues the unconscious Apollo during the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]], and she revives him using defibrilator paddles in her emergency gear ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]). When Racetrack transports Apollo and a squad of Marines to check the ''[[Daru Mozu]]'' for signs of sabotage by Cylon sympathizers, her vessel narrowly escapes the ensuing explosion ([[Epiphanies]]). Racetrack also later flew a Raptor transporting Apollo back from [[Cloud 9]] after he spent some off duty time there with [[Shevon]] ([[Black Market]]).

Racetrack is flying a Raptor as part of Starbuck's rescue mission plan to send 20 Raptors back to Caprica to pick up survivors, by making a series of ten FTL Jumps. On the first Jump, Racetrack's Raptor jumps to the wrong coordinates, ending up in a gas cloud. Starbuck and the main group proceed on without her. Preparing to return to ''Galactica'', Racetrack picks up a lot of gravity distortions on her sensors and upon clearing the gas cloud Racetrack discovers an inhabitable planet that the Fleet could colonize ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Though the planet turned out to be marginally habitable at best, it would later be named [[New Caprica]], and most of the human survivors of the fleet would settle down there permanently. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). The discovery of [[New Caprica]] by the Cylons approximately a year after settlement will no doubt have some effect upon the permanence of the human settlement there.

==Notes==

*Racetrack was probably created as a replacement for [[Crashdown]] and his role as ECO of the Raptor a given episode focuses on (as Crashdown himself was created as a replacement for [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] after he was stranded). Racetrack was introduced in the first season finale and the seeds of Crashdown's demise - signs of his incompetence for command while stranded on Kobol - were already planted in that episode.
*Racetrack's name was revealed in the episode "[[Final Cut]]".
*Ron Moore noted in his [[podcast]] of Racetrack's debut episode "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" that she was only meant to be a one-shot character, like [[Karl Agathon|Helo]]. But, just as with [[Tahmoh Penikett]]'s performance in the [[Mini-Series]], the production staff and [[TPTB|the powers that be]] were so impressed with actress Leah Cairns' performance in the episode that they decided to keep her on as a new recurring character.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Edmonson, Margaret]]
[[Category:Characters|Edmonson, Margaret]]
[[Category:RDM|Edmonson, Margaret]]

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-13T19:54:04Z

Felix Culpa: /* In the Fleet */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]]) [[Kate Vernon]] ([[Ellen Tigh]]) [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] ([[Cavil|Brother Cavil]])
| Writer=[[IMDB:nm1093194|Anne Cofell Saunders]], [[IMDB:nm0894156|Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| Next= TBA
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], the marines, and the [[resistance (movement)|resistance]] continue to take fire from Cylon centurions and artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and Sharon remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity was spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared back to work by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut. [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', Tory mentions there's always a victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_%28verb%29 tabling] the issue of colonization until after the election, which Baltar rejects.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral Adama. She mentions the fact that the Cylons have left Caprica, and a man appearing to be Brother Cavil confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief Tyrol, who declares a "[[Code blue]]," claiming Cavil is a Cylon. Both Cavil and Caprica-Sharon are escorted to the brig under marine guard.

*The other Cavil (from last episode) is also taken to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Both Cavils then talk about the fact that the “war heroes” (Caprica Six & ''Galactica''-Sharon) have talked about how the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. They were told to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*In the brig, Caprica-Sharon is completely disillusioned and nihilistic, declaring that since her child's death, nothing - not Adama's trust, not even Helo - matters to her. A frustrated Helo insists that he's not giving up on her, but she seems disinclined to listen.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left. On ''Colonial One'', Tory makes a call to ''Galactica'', putting a plan into action.

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. Gaeta makes a startling discovery regarding the votes, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying he has a confession to rig the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed.

*Baltar is informed of his election as President. He's less than pleased, vowing to have full investigation in time. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “New Caprica”.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*''[[Cloud 9]]'' is destroyed by a nuclear blast, Gina being present before the explosion; in addition to the ''Cloud 9'', at least three other ships are destroyed in the blast. Admiral Adama reports to the president that this may be a Cylon attack, but Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===
[[image:burdens2.jpg|Kara and Cottle on New Caprica.|thumb]]
*[[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]] is reporting to the President regarding a Union issue aboard Colonial One, now down on the planet. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now sporting a mustache, is walking around the near-empty Galactica, which is quickly falling into disarray. Over half of the crew have moved down onto the planet, and they are running on such a skeleton crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less a good CAP. Adama has a discussion with Tigh about going down to the planet, which Tigh reluctantly agrees to do.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Kara’s husband, is sick with pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is saying he can’t do much for him, saying there are no antibiotics available, but he is young and healthy, and with a little luck he "should" pull through.

*Kara runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, the very pregnant Cally by his side. Saul mentions that ''Pegasus'' keeps the backup medical supplies and that Apollo would spring some for Starbuck. Starbuck disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Apollo should be "over that by now".

*Roslin is doing what she does best, teaching the settlement's children, and manages to find enjoyment in her new position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year old [[Hera]], whom Maya has named "Isis".

*Kara calls Lee,who has gained a lot of weight in the past year aboard ''Pegasus'', requesting the antibiotics. Dualla is now an officer, serving by Lee Adama's side in the ''Pegasus''' CIC. Before Lee can reply to Kara, Dualla catches something on [[DRADIS]].

*A fleet of [[Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas are having a discussion about what to do, when [[Helo]] asks if alert fighters should be launched. Admiral Adama keeps them in as the defense fleet jumps away.

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Number [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar declares surrender on behalf of the colonists, and as Cylon armies occupy the planet, Kara vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*Who is Baltar's vice president?
*What "number" is Cavil?
*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?
**Most likely not, she had the election on her mind, much to do, and didn't actually make it an order. Baltar would have been unlikely to vent them into space.
*Where did the defense fleet jump to?
**Likely a prearranged rendezvous point, similar to that of the miniseries.
**If the Colonies have actually been abandoned, the defense fleet might have jumped back there. While the worlds may well be uninhabitable, there may still be weapons and fuel to salvage. If the Ragnar Anchorage is still intact, that might serve as a good place to re-munition.
***If that is the case, would the Fleet have enough fuel and crew to effectively re-arm the Battlestars?
***Although Roslin calls the colonies a "nuked out wasteland," it seems apparant from scenes of Caprica that not only is there extensive vegetation left, but the radiation is not bad. The cylons have actually rebuilt many of the buildings, and they live on the planet without suffering from radiation. Since it has been nearly two years since the original cylon attack, radiation on the planets would have gone down significantly.
*Where is Caprica-Sharon?
**Most likely, still in ''Galactica'''s brig. This is probably why Helo is still aboard ship, having taken a CIC officer's position.
***This seems to be confirmed by his ready acceptance of Adama's order to jump away from New Caprica; if Sharon was not still aboard he would have protested.
**In the podcast, Ron Moore vaguely hinted that they hadn't forgotten about Sharon, but that we'd have to "wait and see". Apparently, several of the early season 3 episodes will have flashbacks dealing with events that took place in the year that passed.
*What happened to Zarek?
*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?
** Could it be the same [[Leoben Conoy]] that Starbuck interrogated in "[[Flesh and Bone]]"?
*** As seen with ''Galactica''-Sharon, it is distinctly possible that that particular Leoben was lying when he said he'd actually die and not download.
** It is likely that, as the only escapee from [[The Farm]], they are interested in continuing with her. After all, there was an incision, and something had changed with her.
*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.
**Perhaps they were less contemptible towards Baltar because he was the first legitimately elected ruler they've had since Adar's death.
**Admiral Adama wasn't conclusive as to how the weapon got on board Cloud Nine.
**Baltar pointed out there have been no attacks since he took office. Under Roslin the attacks were common. Perhaps for a year the people decided they preferred the safety Baltar gave them to their liberties.
**They did vote him in, and perhaps the struggle of trying to survive on this planet is distracting their attention, i.e. at first they weren't sure how much to blame on Baltar, or on the simple struggle of trying to rebuild. Howevever, it hasn't been a particularly smooth or easy presidency, as shown by the recent Union strike.
*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]?
**Judging from Six's reaction to Baltar, it is either Caprica-Six or Gina.
*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].
*Did the nuclear bomb ever get picked up by the fleet's radiological alarms?
*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion?
**The Cloud Nine explosion also destroyed ships near it. Given the stated size of the New Caprica population along with subtracting the minimal crew sizes needed to maintain the ships in orbit, you can estimate that approximately 3000 to 5000 people died.
***The full complement of Cloud Nine may have been lower than its share in proportion to fleet size, as it was a luxury liner. It seemed to be continuing to serve as a public meeting and recreational vessel after the [[Colonial Day]] election. It seems plausible that the minimal crew required to operate Cloud Nine would have been small, as with the STL botanical garden ship destroyed in the pilot episode. Equally, since Baltar was being sworn in, it is possible that Cloud Nine was not at full population.
*When Gina-Six was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed?
**They have already established that with the [[Resurrection Ship]] destroyed, Cylons in the fleet that are killed will ''actually'' die. Gina expressed suicidal impulses as early as "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]".
**Additionally, since the Cylons found the planet due to the radiation, it is unlikely that Gina was resurrected, as she then would have told the Cylons the location of the planet.
*** It is possible, perhaps even likely that the bulk of the civilian population was deliberately left in the dark about the fleets exact location, just in case there were Cylon agents in the fleet.
*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuke to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it?
**He had no real proof.
*Did the events of "One Year Later" actually happen, or were they a dream or vision sequence given to Baltar?
**Although Baltar has had elaborate visions in the past, this vision left Baltar's point of view several times, addressing issues such as the marriage of Kara to Sam Anders and Adama's friendship with Tigh that are of little knowledge or importance to Baltar.
***Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that the first 4-5 episodes of season 3 will deal with the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, and unless a vast swath of episodes is going to be a dream sequence, all of these "one year later" events ''really'' happen.
***Moore actually discusses this in the podcast, saying that many people might just assume this is a dream, or a ''[[wikipedia:Dallas (TV series)|Dallas]]''-like season-erasing shower-dream episode, but he thought it was a bold decision to jump ahead a full year, and have all of it be definitely real.
*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?
**So far as we know, Adama, Tigh, Gaeta, Dualla, Dualla's two associates, Tory, and Roslin are the only people that knew; 6 are military personnel, 4 of whom would be implicated, and the other 2 were directly involved civilians. All are strongly motivated to conceal the information.
* Why would it take the Cylons over one year to find New Caprica, alerted by the nuclear detonation prior to the inhabitation of the planet?
**It was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out.
***Actually with the Cylon base 1 light year away, it would take 1 year for the nuke to show up on the Cylon sensors. Short of some FTL communication system, that's the only way the Cylons would have been able to detect the planet. Since the fleet is all in within non-FTL distances, all the FTL devices, if any exist would likely have been destroyed or disabled.
*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?
**Has it really been established that all that remains of the colonies are nuked-out wastelands? Yes, it's clear that they were nuked from the mini-series, yet in more recent episodes, it's also clear that the Cylons have been rebuilding them, in particular Caprica. The comment is bizarre in that Admiral Adama would know this as well, given the return of Anders who no doubt gave a full account of his experiences.
***Adama and Roslin appeared to be questioning the Cavils immediately after the Caprica copy was detained, leaving no time for Anders' debriefing.
*Why have the Cylons returned? According to [[Cavil]], the two races were to go their "separate ways". The Cylons may have been worried about the humans retaliating at some point in the future, but the location of the Cylon world(s) is still unknown to the humans, so ensuring the safety of their society presumably isn't the motive behind the occupation of [[New Caprica]].
**In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", it was actually implied that the Colonials do know the location of the [[Cylon homeworld]], and at no time has anyone ever said "we don't know the location of the Cylon homeworld".
**This assumes that the Cylons were being honest in their announcement of withdrawl from all Human contact and association. It is possible that this was a tactical feint and the Cylons went looking for possible alternate locations where the Humans could have resettled.
**[[Cavil]] stated that the cylon "war heroes" had changed cylon opinion about the war on the humans, perhaps others within the cylon population had swung public opinion back towards starting up the war again.
***If Cylon opinion had been swung back in favor of war, then Caprica-Six and Galactica-Sharon would not be leading a delegation to demand surrender. The cylons must have some ulterior motive, probably involving Starbuck. Otherwise, they could have simply bombed the human settlement from space.
****Perhaps, due to Caprica-Six and Galactica-Sharon's influences, the Cylons are actually trying to 'help' the humans in their own way this time around. This would also not contradict the Cavils' statement of the Cylons stopping their attacks on humanity.
*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?
** If they were telling the truth, perhaps not all Cylons are readily able to admit and rectify their mistakes as the Cavils believed.
** It seems that the intent was truthful, given that Caprica-Six and Sharon are taking an active leadership role in this new occupation. What seems unclear is how their positions has changed from Downloaded, where they clearly felt that the Cylon destruction of humanity was wrong. This is especially so for Sharon, who still considered herself human. Why would she go along willingly with this new course of action of occupation and presumably other forms of experimentation.
*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?
*How many people are left in the Fleet?
**The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and surrounding Fleet ships but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
**Watching the Fleet jump in slow-motion, you can count approximately 19 ships, which also gives a rough impression of the reduced size of the fleet. Other ships, including Colonial One and some Raptors, are landed on New Caprica and have presumably fallen into the hands of the Cylons.
**It is not explicitly said that all members of the New Caprica colony reside in New Caprica City. There may be outlying settlements, though none are named. One reason for this would simply be as a safeguard to keep a single nuclear strike from wiping out all of the fleet survivors.
***Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?
****Although William Adama has not conscripted civillians like Admiral Cain did, he did draft some to be viper pilots in the episode "[[Act of Contrition]]." This would have set a precedent to draft or conscript more civillians especially in this obvious time of crisis.
*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck?
**Colonel Tigh mentioned that the incident that happened "a long time ago" and that it wouldn't prevent Apollo from giving antibiotics to Starbuck. When she contacted him aboard ''Pegasus'', he seemed very much not to want to talk to her.
***Problems may have arisen due to possible jealousy of Anders.
***This may refer to Starbuck's drunken comments about Apollo and Dualla.
*What led to Starbuck's reconciliation with Col. Tigh? The two had been in conflict since the [[Miniseries]], what led them to bury the hatchet and become the close friends they now appear to be?
*Has it become public knowledge that Baltar killed [[Crashdown]] on [[Kobol]]? Now that Chief and Cally are Baltar's open adversaries they could attempt to use this information against him.
*When Adama informes Baltar that the nuke used to blow up [[Cloud Nine]] was probably stolen form Gaius' lab, why is he not he suspicious about the fact that Baltar never reported that it was missing? Had it really been stolen from his lab, he would surely notice.

== Analysis ==
*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica—he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a larger, elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the landed Colonial One.
*After a whole year, everyone is still living in tents. There is a vital shortage of medicine, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.
*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard Pegasus while everyone else goes planetside—he is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
**Who says he didn't build a bar for them? However dispite building a bar he would still have to be comanding the Pegasus.
*Ron Moore has once again decided to play with viewer's expectations; in the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Here, many viewers assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' this time, but it wasn't.
*29 people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**Is it possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***They didn't remove Starbuck from the count when she left for Caprica at the beginning of Season 2.
****She left at the end of season one, before they started the count. But, they did not add her to the count when she returned with Helo, because the count rose by one.
**Maybe more people died during the attack on Caprica than was shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
**There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.

== Notes ==
* '''According to Ron Moore's podcast, although Scifi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible".''' Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version. This may not be the case in the UK however as Skyone (the channel that broadcasts the show in that country) previously showed the full 90 minute version of Stargate SG1 episode 'Threads' and may well do the same for this episode.
* Ron Moore's podcast for episode 13, [[Epiphanies]], states that the Nuke given to Gina will come back in this episode, to the benefit of the Cylons.
*Admiral Adama watches Pyramid games and is a fan of the Picon Panthers.
*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from. Ship names visible on the chart are: Demetrius, Diomedes, Embla Brokk, Enkidu, Epheme, Galactica, Gideon, Gemenon Traveller, Greenleaf, Monarch, Odysseus, Pegasus, Persephone, Prometheus, Swordfish
*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on her desk during the election.
*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.
*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned in by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.
*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.
*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.
*Baltar's portrait of himself does not have the 'cut corners' as seen in most (all?) other papers and photos in the show.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Dr. Cottle decides Cally is ready to return to duty:''
:'''Cottle:''' You're done here. I'm kickin' you out of here and sending you back to work.
:'''Cally:''' (muffled, because her jaw is immobilized) Work??? Like this?
:'''Cottle:''' You gotta love a woman who can complain even with her jaw wired shut.

*"Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(''sees the other Cavil in the cell'')…oh. Well, okay then."
*:—'''Brother Cavil'''

*"Gods help us."
*:-'''Admiral Adama''' over the objection of [[Edward James Olmos]] (podcast)

*''Trying to bring order to a Union meeting:''
:'''Tyrol:''' Everyone, please be quiet. (''crowd ignores him'')
:'''Cally:''' Hey! Shut the frak up! (''crowd quiets down'')

*'''Admiral Adama:''' We're leaving. But we'll be back.

*''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
:'''Tyrol:''' "What do you want to do now, Captain?"
:'''Starbuck:''' "The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Winston Rekert as Priest

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-13T19:50:37Z

Felix Culpa: /* In the Fleet */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]]) [[Kate Vernon]] ([[Ellen Tigh]]) [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] ([[Cavil|Brother Cavil]])
| Writer=[[IMDB:nm1093194|Anne Cofell Saunders]], [[IMDB:nm0894156|Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| Next= TBA
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], the marines, and the [[resistance (movement)|resistance]] continue to take fire from Cylon centurions and artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and Sharon remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity was spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared back to work by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut. [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', Tory mentions there's always a victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_%28verb%29 tabling] the issue of colonization until after the election, which Baltar rejects.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral Adama. She mentions the fact that the Cylons have left Caprica, and a man appearing to be Brother Cavill confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief Tyrol, who declares a "[[Code blue]]," claiming Cavill is a Cylon. Both Cavill and Caprica-Sharon are escorted to the brig under marine guard.

*The other Cavill (from last episode) is also taken to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Both Cavills then talk about the fact that the “war heroes” (Caprica Six & ''Galactica''-Sharon) have talked about how the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. They were told to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*In the brig, Caprica-Sharon is completely disillusioned and nihilistic, declaring that since her child's death, nothing - not Adama's trust, not even Helo - matters to her. A frustrated Helo insists that he's not giving up on her, but she seems disinclined to listen.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left. On ''Colonial One'', Tory makes a call to ''Galactica'', putting a plan into action.

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. Gaeta makes a startling discovery regarding the votes, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying he has a confession to rig the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed.

*Baltar is informed of his election as President. He's less than pleased, vowing to have full investigation in time. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “New Caprica”.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*''[[Cloud 9]]'' is destroyed by a nuclear blast, Gina being present before the explosion; in addition to the ''Cloud 9'', at least three other ships are destroyed in the blast. Admiral Adama reports to the president that this may be a Cylon attack, but Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===
[[image:burdens2.jpg|Kara and Cottle on New Caprica.|thumb]]
*[[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]] is reporting to the President regarding a Union issue aboard Colonial One, now down on the planet. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now sporting a mustache, is walking around the near-empty Galactica, which is quickly falling into disarray. Over half of the crew have moved down onto the planet, and they are running on such a skeleton crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less a good CAP. Adama has a discussion with Tigh about going down to the planet, which Tigh reluctantly agrees to do.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Kara’s husband, is sick with pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is saying he can’t do much for him, saying there are no antibiotics available, but he is young and healthy, and with a little luck he "should" pull through.

*Kara runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, the very pregnant Cally by his side. Saul mentions that ''Pegasus'' keeps the backup medical supplies and that Apollo would spring some for Starbuck. Starbuck disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Apollo should be "over that by now".

*Roslin is doing what she does best, teaching the settlement's children, and manages to find enjoyment in her new position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year old [[Hera]], whom Maya has named "Isis".

*Kara calls Lee,who has gained a lot of weight in the past year aboard ''Pegasus'', requesting the antibiotics. Dualla is now an officer, serving by Lee Adama's side in the ''Pegasus''' CIC. Before Lee can reply to Kara, Dualla catches something on [[DRADIS]].

*A fleet of [[Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas are having a discussion about what to do, when [[Helo]] asks if alert fighters should be launched. Admiral Adama keeps them in as the defense fleet jumps away.

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Number [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar declares surrender on behalf of the colonists, and as Cylon armies occupy the planet, Kara vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*Who is Baltar's vice president?
*What "number" is Cavil?
*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?
**Most likely not, she had the election on her mind, much to do, and didn't actually make it an order. Baltar would have been unlikely to vent them into space.
*Where did the defense fleet jump to?
**Likely a prearranged rendezvous point, similar to that of the miniseries.
**If the Colonies have actually been abandoned, the defense fleet might have jumped back there. While the worlds may well be uninhabitable, there may still be weapons and fuel to salvage. If the Ragnar Anchorage is still intact, that might serve as a good place to re-munition.
***If that is the case, would the Fleet have enough fuel and crew to effectively re-arm the Battlestars?
***Although Roslin calls the colonies a "nuked out wasteland," it seems apparant from scenes of Caprica that not only is there extensive vegetation left, but the radiation is not bad. The cylons have actually rebuilt many of the buildings, and they live on the planet without suffering from radiation. Since it has been nearly two years since the original cylon attack, radiation on the planets would have gone down significantly.
*Where is Caprica-Sharon?
**Most likely, still in ''Galactica'''s brig. This is probably why Helo is still aboard ship, having taken a CIC officer's position.
***This seems to be confirmed by his ready acceptance of Adama's order to jump away from New Caprica; if Sharon was not still aboard he would have protested.
**In the podcast, Ron Moore vaguely hinted that they hadn't forgotten about Sharon, but that we'd have to "wait and see". Apparently, several of the early season 3 episodes will have flashbacks dealing with events that took place in the year that passed.
*What happened to Zarek?
*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?
** Could it be the same [[Leoben Conoy]] that Starbuck interrogated in "[[Flesh and Bone]]"?
*** As seen with ''Galactica''-Sharon, it is distinctly possible that that particular Leoben was lying when he said he'd actually die and not download.
** It is likely that, as the only escapee from [[The Farm]], they are interested in continuing with her. After all, there was an incision, and something had changed with her.
*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.
**Perhaps they were less contemptible towards Baltar because he was the first legitimately elected ruler they've had since Adar's death.
**Admiral Adama wasn't conclusive as to how the weapon got on board Cloud Nine.
**Baltar pointed out there have been no attacks since he took office. Under Roslin the attacks were common. Perhaps for a year the people decided they preferred the safety Baltar gave them to their liberties.
**They did vote him in, and perhaps the struggle of trying to survive on this planet is distracting their attention, i.e. at first they weren't sure how much to blame on Baltar, or on the simple struggle of trying to rebuild. Howevever, it hasn't been a particularly smooth or easy presidency, as shown by the recent Union strike.
*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]?
**Judging from Six's reaction to Baltar, it is either Caprica-Six or Gina.
*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].
*Did the nuclear bomb ever get picked up by the fleet's radiological alarms?
*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion?
**The Cloud Nine explosion also destroyed ships near it. Given the stated size of the New Caprica population along with subtracting the minimal crew sizes needed to maintain the ships in orbit, you can estimate that approximately 3000 to 5000 people died.
***The full complement of Cloud Nine may have been lower than its share in proportion to fleet size, as it was a luxury liner. It seemed to be continuing to serve as a public meeting and recreational vessel after the [[Colonial Day]] election. It seems plausible that the minimal crew required to operate Cloud Nine would have been small, as with the STL botanical garden ship destroyed in the pilot episode. Equally, since Baltar was being sworn in, it is possible that Cloud Nine was not at full population.
*When Gina-Six was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed?
**They have already established that with the [[Resurrection Ship]] destroyed, Cylons in the fleet that are killed will ''actually'' die. Gina expressed suicidal impulses as early as "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]".
**Additionally, since the Cylons found the planet due to the radiation, it is unlikely that Gina was resurrected, as she then would have told the Cylons the location of the planet.
*** It is possible, perhaps even likely that the bulk of the civilian population was deliberately left in the dark about the fleets exact location, just in case there were Cylon agents in the fleet.
*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuke to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it?
**He had no real proof.
*Did the events of "One Year Later" actually happen, or were they a dream or vision sequence given to Baltar?
**Although Baltar has had elaborate visions in the past, this vision left Baltar's point of view several times, addressing issues such as the marriage of Kara to Sam Anders and Adama's friendship with Tigh that are of little knowledge or importance to Baltar.
***Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that the first 4-5 episodes of season 3 will deal with the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, and unless a vast swath of episodes is going to be a dream sequence, all of these "one year later" events ''really'' happen.
***Moore actually discusses this in the podcast, saying that many people might just assume this is a dream, or a ''[[wikipedia:Dallas (TV series)|Dallas]]''-like season-erasing shower-dream episode, but he thought it was a bold decision to jump ahead a full year, and have all of it be definitely real.
*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?
**So far as we know, Adama, Tigh, Gaeta, Dualla, Dualla's two associates, Tory, and Roslin are the only people that knew; 6 are military personnel, 4 of whom would be implicated, and the other 2 were directly involved civilians. All are strongly motivated to conceal the information.
* Why would it take the Cylons over one year to find New Caprica, alerted by the nuclear detonation prior to the inhabitation of the planet?
**It was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out.
***Actually with the Cylon base 1 light year away, it would take 1 year for the nuke to show up on the Cylon sensors. Short of some FTL communication system, that's the only way the Cylons would have been able to detect the planet. Since the fleet is all in within non-FTL distances, all the FTL devices, if any exist would likely have been destroyed or disabled.
*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?
**Has it really been established that all that remains of the colonies are nuked-out wastelands? Yes, it's clear that they were nuked from the mini-series, yet in more recent episodes, it's also clear that the Cylons have been rebuilding them, in particular Caprica. The comment is bizarre in that Admiral Adama would know this as well, given the return of Anders who no doubt gave a full account of his experiences.
***Adama and Roslin appeared to be questioning the Cavils immediately after the Caprica copy was detained, leaving no time for Anders' debriefing.
*Why have the Cylons returned? According to [[Cavil]], the two races were to go their "separate ways". The Cylons may have been worried about the humans retaliating at some point in the future, but the location of the Cylon world(s) is still unknown to the humans, so ensuring the safety of their society presumably isn't the motive behind the occupation of [[New Caprica]].
**In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", it was actually implied that the Colonials do know the location of the [[Cylon homeworld]], and at no time has anyone ever said "we don't know the location of the Cylon homeworld".
**This assumes that the Cylons were being honest in their announcement of withdrawl from all Human contact and association. It is possible that this was a tactical feint and the Cylons went looking for possible alternate locations where the Humans could have resettled.
**[[Cavil]] stated that the cylon "war heroes" had changed cylon opinion about the war on the humans, perhaps others within the cylon population had swung public opinion back towards starting up the war again.
***If Cylon opinion had been swung back in favor of war, then Caprica-Six and Galactica-Sharon would not be leading a delegation to demand surrender. The cylons must have some ulterior motive, probably involving Starbuck. Otherwise, they could have simply bombed the human settlement from space.
****Perhaps, due to Caprica-Six and Galactica-Sharon's influences, the Cylons are actually trying to 'help' the humans in their own way this time around. This would also not contradict the Cavils' statement of the Cylons stopping their attacks on humanity.
*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?
** If they were telling the truth, perhaps not all Cylons are readily able to admit and rectify their mistakes as the Cavils believed.
** It seems that the intent was truthful, given that Caprica-Six and Sharon are taking an active leadership role in this new occupation. What seems unclear is how their positions has changed from Downloaded, where they clearly felt that the Cylon destruction of humanity was wrong. This is especially so for Sharon, who still considered herself human. Why would she go along willingly with this new course of action of occupation and presumably other forms of experimentation.
*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?
*How many people are left in the Fleet?
**The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and surrounding Fleet ships but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
**Watching the Fleet jump in slow-motion, you can count approximately 19 ships, which also gives a rough impression of the reduced size of the fleet. Other ships, including Colonial One and some Raptors, are landed on New Caprica and have presumably fallen into the hands of the Cylons.
**It is not explicitly said that all members of the New Caprica colony reside in New Caprica City. There may be outlying settlements, though none are named. One reason for this would simply be as a safeguard to keep a single nuclear strike from wiping out all of the fleet survivors.
***Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?
****Although William Adama has not conscripted civillians like Admiral Cain did, he did draft some to be viper pilots in the episode "[[Act of Contrition]]." This would have set a precedent to draft or conscript more civillians especially in this obvious time of crisis.
*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck?
**Colonel Tigh mentioned that the incident that happened "a long time ago" and that it wouldn't prevent Apollo from giving antibiotics to Starbuck. When she contacted him aboard ''Pegasus'', he seemed very much not to want to talk to her.
***Problems may have arisen due to possible jealousy of Anders.
***This may refer to Starbuck's drunken comments about Apollo and Dualla.
*What led to Starbuck's reconciliation with Col. Tigh? The two had been in conflict since the [[Miniseries]], what led them to bury the hatchet and become the close friends they now appear to be?
*Has it become public knowledge that Baltar killed [[Crashdown]] on [[Kobol]]? Now that Chief and Cally are Baltar's open adversaries they could attempt to use this information against him.
*When Adama informes Baltar that the nuke used to blow up [[Cloud Nine]] was probably stolen form Gaius' lab, why is he not he suspicious about the fact that Baltar never reported that it was missing? Had it really been stolen from his lab, he would surely notice.

== Analysis ==
*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica—he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a larger, elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the landed Colonial One.
*After a whole year, everyone is still living in tents. There is a vital shortage of medicine, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.
*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard Pegasus while everyone else goes planetside—he is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
**Who says he didn't build a bar for them? However dispite building a bar he would still have to be comanding the Pegasus.
*Ron Moore has once again decided to play with viewer's expectations; in the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Here, many viewers assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' this time, but it wasn't.
*29 people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**Is it possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***They didn't remove Starbuck from the count when she left for Caprica at the beginning of Season 2.
****She left at the end of season one, before they started the count. But, they did not add her to the count when she returned with Helo, because the count rose by one.
**Maybe more people died during the attack on Caprica than was shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
**There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.

== Notes ==
* '''According to Ron Moore's podcast, although Scifi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible".''' Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version. This may not be the case in the UK however as Skyone (the channel that broadcasts the show in that country) previously showed the full 90 minute version of Stargate SG1 episode 'Threads' and may well do the same for this episode.
* Ron Moore's podcast for episode 13, [[Epiphanies]], states that the Nuke given to Gina will come back in this episode, to the benefit of the Cylons.
*Admiral Adama watches Pyramid games and is a fan of the Picon Panthers.
*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from. Ship names visible on the chart are: Demetrius, Diomedes, Embla Brokk, Enkidu, Epheme, Galactica, Gideon, Gemenon Traveller, Greenleaf, Monarch, Odysseus, Pegasus, Persephone, Prometheus, Swordfish
*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on her desk during the election.
*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.
*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned in by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.
*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.
*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.
*Baltar's portrait of himself does not have the 'cut corners' as seen in most (all?) other papers and photos in the show.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Dr. Cottle decides Cally is ready to return to duty:''
:'''Cottle:''' You're done here. I'm kickin' you out of here and sending you back to work.
:'''Cally:''' (muffled, because her jaw is immobilized) Work??? Like this?
:'''Cottle:''' You gotta love a woman who can complain even with her jaw wired shut.

*"Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(''sees the other Cavil in the cell'')…oh. Well, okay then."
*:—'''Brother Cavil'''

*"Gods help us."
*:-'''Admiral Adama''' over the objection of [[Edward James Olmos]] (podcast)

*''Trying to bring order to a Union meeting:''
:'''Tyrol:''' Everyone, please be quiet. (''crowd ignores him'')
:'''Cally:''' Hey! Shut the frak up! (''crowd quiets down'')

*'''Admiral Adama:''' We're leaving. But we'll be back.

*''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
:'''Tyrol:''' "What do you want to do now, Captain?"
:'''Starbuck:''' "The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Winston Rekert as Priest

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-13T19:50:04Z

Felix Culpa: /* In the Fleet */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]]) [[Kate Vernon]] ([[Ellen Tigh]]) [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] ([[Cavil|Brother Cavil]])
| Writer=[[IMDB:nm1093194|Anne Cofell Saunders]], [[IMDB:nm0894156|Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
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== Overview ==

: ''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], the marines, and the [[resistance (movement)|resistance]] continue to take fire from Cylon centurions and artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and Sharon remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity was spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared back to work by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut. [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', Tory mentions there's always a victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_%28verb%29 tabling] the issue of colonization until after the election, which Baltar rejects.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral Adama. She mentions the fact that the Cylons have left Caprica, and a man appearing to be Brother Cavill confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief Tyrol, who declares a "[[Code Blue]]," claiming Cavill is a Cylon. Both Cavill and Caprica-Sharon are escorted to the brig under marine guard.

*The other Cavill (from last episode) is also taken to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Both Cavills then talk about the fact that the “war heroes” (Caprica Six & ''Galactica''-Sharon) have talked about how the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. They were told to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*In the brig, Caprica-Sharon is completely disillusioned and nihilistic, declaring that since her child's death, nothing - not Adama's trust, not even Helo - matters to her. A frustrated Helo insists that he's not giving up on her, but she seems disinclined to listen.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left. On ''Colonial One'', Tory makes a call to ''Galactica'', putting a plan into action.

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. Gaeta makes a startling discovery regarding the votes, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying he has a confession to rig the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed.

*Baltar is informed of his election as President. He's less than pleased, vowing to have full investigation in time. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “New Caprica”.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*''[[Cloud 9]]'' is destroyed by a nuclear blast, Gina being present before the explosion; in addition to the ''Cloud 9'', at least three other ships are destroyed in the blast. Admiral Adama reports to the president that this may be a Cylon attack, but Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===
[[image:burdens2.jpg|Kara and Cottle on New Caprica.|thumb]]
*[[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]] is reporting to the President regarding a Union issue aboard Colonial One, now down on the planet. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now sporting a mustache, is walking around the near-empty Galactica, which is quickly falling into disarray. Over half of the crew have moved down onto the planet, and they are running on such a skeleton crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less a good CAP. Adama has a discussion with Tigh about going down to the planet, which Tigh reluctantly agrees to do.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Kara’s husband, is sick with pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is saying he can’t do much for him, saying there are no antibiotics available, but he is young and healthy, and with a little luck he "should" pull through.

*Kara runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, the very pregnant Cally by his side. Saul mentions that ''Pegasus'' keeps the backup medical supplies and that Apollo would spring some for Starbuck. Starbuck disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Apollo should be "over that by now".

*Roslin is doing what she does best, teaching the settlement's children, and manages to find enjoyment in her new position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year old [[Hera]], whom Maya has named "Isis".

*Kara calls Lee,who has gained a lot of weight in the past year aboard ''Pegasus'', requesting the antibiotics. Dualla is now an officer, serving by Lee Adama's side in the ''Pegasus''' CIC. Before Lee can reply to Kara, Dualla catches something on [[DRADIS]].

*A fleet of [[Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas are having a discussion about what to do, when [[Helo]] asks if alert fighters should be launched. Admiral Adama keeps them in as the defense fleet jumps away.

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Number [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar declares surrender on behalf of the colonists, and as Cylon armies occupy the planet, Kara vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*Who is Baltar's vice president?
*What "number" is Cavil?
*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?
**Most likely not, she had the election on her mind, much to do, and didn't actually make it an order. Baltar would have been unlikely to vent them into space.
*Where did the defense fleet jump to?
**Likely a prearranged rendezvous point, similar to that of the miniseries.
**If the Colonies have actually been abandoned, the defense fleet might have jumped back there. While the worlds may well be uninhabitable, there may still be weapons and fuel to salvage. If the Ragnar Anchorage is still intact, that might serve as a good place to re-munition.
***If that is the case, would the Fleet have enough fuel and crew to effectively re-arm the Battlestars?
***Although Roslin calls the colonies a "nuked out wasteland," it seems apparant from scenes of Caprica that not only is there extensive vegetation left, but the radiation is not bad. The cylons have actually rebuilt many of the buildings, and they live on the planet without suffering from radiation. Since it has been nearly two years since the original cylon attack, radiation on the planets would have gone down significantly.
*Where is Caprica-Sharon?
**Most likely, still in ''Galactica'''s brig. This is probably why Helo is still aboard ship, having taken a CIC officer's position.
***This seems to be confirmed by his ready acceptance of Adama's order to jump away from New Caprica; if Sharon was not still aboard he would have protested.
**In the podcast, Ron Moore vaguely hinted that they hadn't forgotten about Sharon, but that we'd have to "wait and see". Apparently, several of the early season 3 episodes will have flashbacks dealing with events that took place in the year that passed.
*What happened to Zarek?
*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?
** Could it be the same [[Leoben Conoy]] that Starbuck interrogated in "[[Flesh and Bone]]"?
*** As seen with ''Galactica''-Sharon, it is distinctly possible that that particular Leoben was lying when he said he'd actually die and not download.
** It is likely that, as the only escapee from [[The Farm]], they are interested in continuing with her. After all, there was an incision, and something had changed with her.
*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.
**Perhaps they were less contemptible towards Baltar because he was the first legitimately elected ruler they've had since Adar's death.
**Admiral Adama wasn't conclusive as to how the weapon got on board Cloud Nine.
**Baltar pointed out there have been no attacks since he took office. Under Roslin the attacks were common. Perhaps for a year the people decided they preferred the safety Baltar gave them to their liberties.
**They did vote him in, and perhaps the struggle of trying to survive on this planet is distracting their attention, i.e. at first they weren't sure how much to blame on Baltar, or on the simple struggle of trying to rebuild. Howevever, it hasn't been a particularly smooth or easy presidency, as shown by the recent Union strike.
*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]?
**Judging from Six's reaction to Baltar, it is either Caprica-Six or Gina.
*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].
*Did the nuclear bomb ever get picked up by the fleet's radiological alarms?
*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion?
**The Cloud Nine explosion also destroyed ships near it. Given the stated size of the New Caprica population along with subtracting the minimal crew sizes needed to maintain the ships in orbit, you can estimate that approximately 3000 to 5000 people died.
***The full complement of Cloud Nine may have been lower than its share in proportion to fleet size, as it was a luxury liner. It seemed to be continuing to serve as a public meeting and recreational vessel after the [[Colonial Day]] election. It seems plausible that the minimal crew required to operate Cloud Nine would have been small, as with the STL botanical garden ship destroyed in the pilot episode. Equally, since Baltar was being sworn in, it is possible that Cloud Nine was not at full population.
*When Gina-Six was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed?
**They have already established that with the [[Resurrection Ship]] destroyed, Cylons in the fleet that are killed will ''actually'' die. Gina expressed suicidal impulses as early as "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]".
**Additionally, since the Cylons found the planet due to the radiation, it is unlikely that Gina was resurrected, as she then would have told the Cylons the location of the planet.
*** It is possible, perhaps even likely that the bulk of the civilian population was deliberately left in the dark about the fleets exact location, just in case there were Cylon agents in the fleet.
*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuke to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it?
**He had no real proof.
*Did the events of "One Year Later" actually happen, or were they a dream or vision sequence given to Baltar?
**Although Baltar has had elaborate visions in the past, this vision left Baltar's point of view several times, addressing issues such as the marriage of Kara to Sam Anders and Adama's friendship with Tigh that are of little knowledge or importance to Baltar.
***Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that the first 4-5 episodes of season 3 will deal with the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, and unless a vast swath of episodes is going to be a dream sequence, all of these "one year later" events ''really'' happen.
***Moore actually discusses this in the podcast, saying that many people might just assume this is a dream, or a ''[[wikipedia:Dallas (TV series)|Dallas]]''-like season-erasing shower-dream episode, but he thought it was a bold decision to jump ahead a full year, and have all of it be definitely real.
*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?
**So far as we know, Adama, Tigh, Gaeta, Dualla, Dualla's two associates, Tory, and Roslin are the only people that knew; 6 are military personnel, 4 of whom would be implicated, and the other 2 were directly involved civilians. All are strongly motivated to conceal the information.
* Why would it take the Cylons over one year to find New Caprica, alerted by the nuclear detonation prior to the inhabitation of the planet?
**It was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out.
***Actually with the Cylon base 1 light year away, it would take 1 year for the nuke to show up on the Cylon sensors. Short of some FTL communication system, that's the only way the Cylons would have been able to detect the planet. Since the fleet is all in within non-FTL distances, all the FTL devices, if any exist would likely have been destroyed or disabled.
*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?
**Has it really been established that all that remains of the colonies are nuked-out wastelands? Yes, it's clear that they were nuked from the mini-series, yet in more recent episodes, it's also clear that the Cylons have been rebuilding them, in particular Caprica. The comment is bizarre in that Admiral Adama would know this as well, given the return of Anders who no doubt gave a full account of his experiences.
***Adama and Roslin appeared to be questioning the Cavils immediately after the Caprica copy was detained, leaving no time for Anders' debriefing.
*Why have the Cylons returned? According to [[Cavil]], the two races were to go their "separate ways". The Cylons may have been worried about the humans retaliating at some point in the future, but the location of the Cylon world(s) is still unknown to the humans, so ensuring the safety of their society presumably isn't the motive behind the occupation of [[New Caprica]].
**In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", it was actually implied that the Colonials do know the location of the [[Cylon homeworld]], and at no time has anyone ever said "we don't know the location of the Cylon homeworld".
**This assumes that the Cylons were being honest in their announcement of withdrawl from all Human contact and association. It is possible that this was a tactical feint and the Cylons went looking for possible alternate locations where the Humans could have resettled.
**[[Cavil]] stated that the cylon "war heroes" had changed cylon opinion about the war on the humans, perhaps others within the cylon population had swung public opinion back towards starting up the war again.
***If Cylon opinion had been swung back in favor of war, then Caprica-Six and Galactica-Sharon would not be leading a delegation to demand surrender. The cylons must have some ulterior motive, probably involving Starbuck. Otherwise, they could have simply bombed the human settlement from space.
****Perhaps, due to Caprica-Six and Galactica-Sharon's influences, the Cylons are actually trying to 'help' the humans in their own way this time around. This would also not contradict the Cavils' statement of the Cylons stopping their attacks on humanity.
*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?
** If they were telling the truth, perhaps not all Cylons are readily able to admit and rectify their mistakes as the Cavils believed.
** It seems that the intent was truthful, given that Caprica-Six and Sharon are taking an active leadership role in this new occupation. What seems unclear is how their positions has changed from Downloaded, where they clearly felt that the Cylon destruction of humanity was wrong. This is especially so for Sharon, who still considered herself human. Why would she go along willingly with this new course of action of occupation and presumably other forms of experimentation.
*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?
*How many people are left in the Fleet?
**The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and surrounding Fleet ships but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
**Watching the Fleet jump in slow-motion, you can count approximately 19 ships, which also gives a rough impression of the reduced size of the fleet. Other ships, including Colonial One and some Raptors, are landed on New Caprica and have presumably fallen into the hands of the Cylons.
**It is not explicitly said that all members of the New Caprica colony reside in New Caprica City. There may be outlying settlements, though none are named. One reason for this would simply be as a safeguard to keep a single nuclear strike from wiping out all of the fleet survivors.
***Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?
****Although William Adama has not conscripted civillians like Admiral Cain did, he did draft some to be viper pilots in the episode "[[Act of Contrition]]." This would have set a precedent to draft or conscript more civillians especially in this obvious time of crisis.
*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck?
**Colonel Tigh mentioned that the incident that happened "a long time ago" and that it wouldn't prevent Apollo from giving antibiotics to Starbuck. When she contacted him aboard ''Pegasus'', he seemed very much not to want to talk to her.
***Problems may have arisen due to possible jealousy of Anders.
***This may refer to Starbuck's drunken comments about Apollo and Dualla.
*What led to Starbuck's reconciliation with Col. Tigh? The two had been in conflict since the [[Miniseries]], what led them to bury the hatchet and become the close friends they now appear to be?
*Has it become public knowledge that Baltar killed [[Crashdown]] on [[Kobol]]? Now that Chief and Cally are Baltar's open adversaries they could attempt to use this information against him.
*When Adama informes Baltar that the nuke used to blow up [[Cloud Nine]] was probably stolen form Gaius' lab, why is he not he suspicious about the fact that Baltar never reported that it was missing? Had it really been stolen from his lab, he would surely notice.

== Analysis ==
*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica—he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a larger, elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the landed Colonial One.
*After a whole year, everyone is still living in tents. There is a vital shortage of medicine, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.
*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard Pegasus while everyone else goes planetside—he is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
**Who says he didn't build a bar for them? However dispite building a bar he would still have to be comanding the Pegasus.
*Ron Moore has once again decided to play with viewer's expectations; in the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Here, many viewers assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' this time, but it wasn't.
*29 people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**Is it possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***They didn't remove Starbuck from the count when she left for Caprica at the beginning of Season 2.
****She left at the end of season one, before they started the count. But, they did not add her to the count when she returned with Helo, because the count rose by one.
**Maybe more people died during the attack on Caprica than was shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
**There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.

== Notes ==
* '''According to Ron Moore's podcast, although Scifi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible".''' Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version. This may not be the case in the UK however as Skyone (the channel that broadcasts the show in that country) previously showed the full 90 minute version of Stargate SG1 episode 'Threads' and may well do the same for this episode.
* Ron Moore's podcast for episode 13, [[Epiphanies]], states that the Nuke given to Gina will come back in this episode, to the benefit of the Cylons.
*Admiral Adama watches Pyramid games and is a fan of the Picon Panthers.
*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from. Ship names visible on the chart are: Demetrius, Diomedes, Embla Brokk, Enkidu, Epheme, Galactica, Gideon, Gemenon Traveller, Greenleaf, Monarch, Odysseus, Pegasus, Persephone, Prometheus, Swordfish
*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on her desk during the election.
*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.
*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned in by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.
*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.
*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.
*Baltar's portrait of himself does not have the 'cut corners' as seen in most (all?) other papers and photos in the show.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Dr. Cottle decides Cally is ready to return to duty:''
:'''Cottle:''' You're done here. I'm kickin' you out of here and sending you back to work.
:'''Cally:''' (muffled, because her jaw is immobilized) Work??? Like this?
:'''Cottle:''' You gotta love a woman who can complain even with her jaw wired shut.

*"Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(''sees the other Cavil in the cell'')…oh. Well, okay then."
*:—'''Brother Cavil'''

*"Gods help us."
*:-'''Admiral Adama''' over the objection of [[Edward James Olmos]] (podcast)

*''Trying to bring order to a Union meeting:''
:'''Tyrol:''' Everyone, please be quiet. (''crowd ignores him'')
:'''Cally:''' Hey! Shut the frak up! (''crowd quiets down'')

*'''Admiral Adama:''' We're leaving. But we'll be back.

*''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
:'''Tyrol:''' "What do you want to do now, Captain?"
:'''Starbuck:''' "The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Winston Rekert as Priest

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]