Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Standoff Between Galactica and Pegasus/Archive 1

2006-01-27T00:16:57Z

Feldspar: /* Keep */

==Deletion Discussion==

I can see Ricimer's arguement here. It wasn't so much a battle as it was a Mexican Standoff. I say delete. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:03, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:I haven't had access to a computer for the last few days, so I wasn't able to update this myself. You see ORIGINALLY, I thought they were going to shoot at each other...by which I mean, after I watched "[[Pegasus (episode)]]". I left "Galactica vs Pegasus" as a PLACEHOLDER NAME when I read reports that they were going to fight the Cylon Resurrection Ship ''without actually shooting at each other first'', because I didn't want to add "Spoilers". Had I gotten here earlier would have simply deleted this Placeholder name entirely, and created the Battle of the Resurrection Ship page. I also have a long list on the talk page for "Battle of the Resurrection Ship" which I should really leave up as rules for future battles. Meanwhile, I would like to (in a fit of annoyance for a minute) say that I think it was a poorly planned idea to update the entire wiki with minor edits such as switching all the links to "William Adama", etc RIGHT AFTER a big site update like the last 2 week gap we had. You see, I'm not against this, but against the quantity of it; the "recent changes" button only records the last 500 things that have been changed, and doing several hundred link changes in rapid succession has made it impossible to easily reference changes made; this is important because many people like myself did not know when Battlestar Wiki was going to "reload", and now cannot easily see what has been changed. I don't mean to whine, sorry, but imagine yourself in my position; coming back with updates from an entiire new episode to make, and not having a full record of what has been happening for the past few days. Oh...I'll catch up over the weekend. I get bye. While I'm at it, I think I've going to change my screename soon to "The Merovingian"; it's the screename I use on all other galactica sites (official messageboard, Galactica Actual, Nicki Clyne fan site), and I really should have been using it since day 1 anyway. Be seeing you...--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]]17:38, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::I do not mind the existence of this page as viewers who see episode 10 (but not 11) are left thinking of imminent battle. I'll let consensus rule here and delete it after about a week if no opposition is made. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:41, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::I'd prefer to keep it. By way of analogy, the Cold War was still a war, even if no shots were fired. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:12, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::Yeah, but I'm basing this on Wikipedia's battle box system, and they don't ''have'' battles for the Cold War political scenario. Thus it should be deleted. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:03, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Although Wikipedia is full of good ideas, we are not slaves to their conventions. '''Keep'''. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:38, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Had I come here earlier, I would have removed this placeholder. If *nothing* is shot, it doesn't deserve a page; think about it; it's ENTIRipELY just stuff in "Resurrection Ship, Part I"--Ricimer, [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:44, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::::In the real world I am known for voicing my opinion (after serious contemplation), so I why not do so on the internet... There were no shots fired, there were no casualties... it was essentially a bunch of posturing. This does not constitute a battle. My vote is to: DELETE it! --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 01:48, 21 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::Because it's still a relevant conflict in the series, which very nearly boiled over into an armed confrontation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:27, 21 January 2006 (EST)

: [[Galactica vs. Pegasus]] is a very important conflict in the series. Yes, it wasn't a battle, but could have very well disentegrated into one. Perhaps we should reclassify this page as a conflict rather than an actual battle... but deleting it is absurd, particularly since it is such a pivotal plot point. Also, to reply to your point regarding the minor edits made immediately after the update... you can always go through and select to hide all minor edits. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:27, 21 January 2006 (EST)

::I still believe that the place for this information is soley in the episode guide, not here. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:46, 21 January 2006 (EST)

:::I do not believe that this event should constitute a "battle" since, as others have pointed out, the situation was a standoff and did not evolve into a full conflict. I suggest deleting this article and combining the information into the [[Attack on the Resurrection Ship]] article. -- [[User:Nwobkwr|Nwobkwr]] 01:43, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::::Those were not the same conflict. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:22, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::::After review of article and other comment, I choose now to keep. Anytime that fighters are scrambled is an event, especially given that two battlestars are about to fight. Think of it as sparring between two famous boxers like Ali and Frazier, or between popular fictional characters such as Morpheus and Neo. Does either have to win for this particular purpose? No. It's the event, not the result, that is the news here. I also vote to keep...the chicken fight shows interesting Colonial "top gun" flying tactics that are worth study.

::::Currently, the vote (excluding repetitive entries) is 4 to delete, versus 3 to keep. We should solicit a few more voices, say, through Sunday, and then take action. To avoid confusion, if you have already given your vote, refrain from further commentary for others to express their view. I've summarized the current votes where others can add their vote or change it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:25, 26 January 2006 (EST)

'''Keep.''' Important conflict. "Don't draw unless you're willing to pull the trigger," is a good rule, and both parties drew (by launching Vipers). The fact that they didn't pull the trigger shouldn't diminish the significance of the act. Even though no shot was fired, ''Galactica'' and her Vipers pretty well [[Wikipedia:Assault|assaulted]] ''Pegasus'' (though I'm not sure whether such terminology/legalese translates to the capital ship/fighter level). However, NOT a battle. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:06, 26 January 2006 (EST)

==Votes==

====Delete====

# - [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:03, 19 January 2006 (EST)
# - [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:38, 19 January 2006
# - [[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 01:48, 21 January 2006 (EST)
# - [[User:Nwobkwr|Nwobkwr]] 01:43, 22 January 2006 (EST)

====Keep====

# - [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:12, 19 January 2006 (EST)
# - [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:27, 21 January 2006 (EST)
# - [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:41, 19 January 2006 (EST)
# - [[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 04:05, 26 January 2006 (EST)
# - [[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:44, 26 January 2006 (EST)
# - [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:06, 26 January 2006 (EST)
# - [[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 19:16, 26 January 2006 (EST)

User talk:Jzanjani

2005-10-08T07:52:26Z

Feldspar: /* Your "apology" to Ricimer */

AIM: Kinaesthete

Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/american_jaakesh

==Your "apology" to Ricimer==
I hope you realize that your quite valid points about consuming the time of Spencerian, Watcher and myself with your juvenile antics only succeeds in making your [[User talk:Ricimer|comments]] to Ricimer offensive to ''all'' of us. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:49, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

You guys need to loosen up. Seriously.
:''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 17:53, 7 October 2005 (EDT)''

::I agree with Peter. If you think that "loosening up" means that we allow ''ad hominem'' attacks to Ricimer, you are just as wrong as he was in attacking you. We generally do not edit the comments of Talk pages, but in your case, I might make an exception. Ricimer is as valuable a contributor as you have shown so far (antics aside), but we veteran contributors also know he has a tendency to chomp on newbies, and we remind him not to as appropriate, while defending legitimate actions such as the contributions you have done. However, your post on Ricimer's talk page steps over the line, and frequent contributors like myself and Peter get annoyed, quickly. We have fun reading and contributing here; but loosening up with attacks is never, ever permitted. You are no exception.

::While our administrator of this site is a kind soul that does not kick fellow wikipedians out of BSG Wiki without sufficient cause, do not make the mistake that he cannot be persuaded. Ricimer was in the wrong, but you further insulting him is likely a violation of Wiki policy and '''IS''' grounds for your account being banned. I'd rather add to the contributions than remind you of this common-sense behavior, and I'm sure you will be happy to add to the Wiki rather than get the riot act read to you from the Wikipedians here. Think of it this way: If what you say or display on a board which, in real life, would you punched in the face if said in person, why would you think it would be appropriate here? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:22, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

::I would like to point out again that I didn't know that someone is indeed allowed to edit their own talk page: had I known this I would never have re-instated this user page after it's own user deleted it. My error against the rules was one of ignorance, and for this I am sorry. ---Ricimer, October 7, 2005

:::It's okay Ricimer, you know I love you.<3 ''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 20:23, 7 October 2005 (EDT)''

::::I have removed your latest edit to Ricimer's page. Enough is enough. We know you two don't get along. We get it. Your edit was in poor taste and you are rapidly making a case for yourself to be banned. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 03:52, 8 October 2005 (EDT)

== I Don't Wanna Brag, I Don't Wanna Boast... ==

...put two slices in the slot, you get [[Toaster|toast!]] YEAH, TOAST!!! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:24, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

User:The Merovingian

2005-10-08T07:48:24Z

Feldspar:

{{Character Data|
|age= (a prime number: try to guess which one; I think you'll be pleasantly surprised)
|colony=Scorpion
|birthname= Magnifico Giganticus
|callsign=Ricimer
|death=Debatable
|parents=Unknown
|siblings=Unknown
|marital status=Unknown
|role="origin and purpose...still a total mystery"
|rank=SSG
|actor= Himself

}}

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Ricimer knows...

Galen Tyrol

2005-09-29T21:31:16Z

Feldspar: /* Helo's Return */

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Bsg-tyrol-1.jpg|200px]]
|age= 30s
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies#Gemenon|Gemenon]]
|birthname= Galen Tyrol
|callsign= "Chief" (nickname)
|death=
|parents= An unnamed Oracle (mother) and a Priest (father).
|siblings= Unknown
|children=
|marital status= Single
|role= Senior NCO, Deck Crew 5, ''[[Battlestar]] [[Galactica]]''
|rank= Chief Petty Officer (Non-Commissioned)
|actor= [[Aaron Douglas]]
|cylon=
}}

== Biography ==

=== Background ===

'''Chief Petty Officer Galen Tyrol''' is a much-admired NCO aboard the ''[[Galactica]]''. He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including the battlestars ''[[Columbia]]'', ''[[Atlantia]]'', and ''[[Pegasus]]''. ([[Resistance]]) He has served under [[William Adama]] for a number of years, and has considerable respect for the Commander - a feeling that is reciprocated. Indeed, he admires Adama to such a degree that he has modelled his own style of leadership on that of Adama: firm, fair, and willing to go to the fullest degree in support of his crew.

However, when people under his responsibility are injured or killed, Tyrol becomes rather irrational, angry, and reckless in his actions, to the point of further endangering his people or his reputation with senior officers. Prime examples of his lack of emotional control includes the scenes before the ship venting after the nuke hit and cursing [[Tigh]] in front of [[Commander Adama]] for the vent and loss of 85 of his people ([[Mini-Series]]), and saving a mortally-wounded crewmate while leaving himself and [[Cally]] highly vulnerable in "[[Scattered]]". Tyrol's tryst with [[Sharon Valerii]] and a subsequent cover-up attempt in "[[Litmus]]" resulted in the jailing of Specialist [[Socinus]], who was trying to protect Tyrol.

Originally leading [[Deck Crew 5]], a team of 15 deckhands and specialists, since the Cylon Attack he has become the most senior and experienced NCO on the ''Galactica''.

=== Cylon Attack ===

At the time of the Cylon Attack, as well as leading his deck crew, Tyrol has been overseeing the refurbishment and restoration of [[Viper]] Mark II N7242C - the Viper originally flown by William Adama at the time of the [[Cylon War]] ([[Mini-Series]]).

Following the attack, with the ''Galactica'' undermanned, Tyrol also performs the function of senior Damage Control officer ([[Mini-Series]] / [[Water]]), a role that brings him into conflict with [[Colonel Tigh]] after the ''Galactica'' is struck by a Cylon nuclear warhead.

=== Relationship with Sharon Valerii ===

For several months prior to the Cylon attack, and in its aftermath, Tyrol has been engaged in an affair with Lieutenant (JG) [[Valerii, Sharon|Sharon Valerii]], a [[Raptor]] pilot aboard the ''Galactica''. Despite the fact the relationship breaks military protocol, senior officers on the ship turn a blind eye to it, while Tyrol's own crew treat it with fond amusement.

When the water supplies on the ''Galactica'' are sabotaged, Tyrol is placed in an awkward position: by her own admmission, Valerii knows explosives were missing from a small-arms locker - potentially making her a suspect - and he is the principal DC investigator into the cause of the explosions which wreck the water tanks. Torn between love and duty, the situation prompts him to hide evidence and allow a theory that the walls of the tanks simply collapsed from fatigue resulting from damage the ''Galactica'' received from a nuclear warhead in the Cylon attack ([[Water]] / [[Mini-Series]]).

Following the sabotage attempt, Valerii is ordered to end her relationship with Tyrol ([[Bastille Day]]) as a part of a general tightening-up of security and discipline on ship, only to have Tyrol's deck crew help the two of them to continue to meet in greater secret ([[Litmus]]).

Tyrol's world is thrown further into turmoil when both he and Valerii become the prime suspects in an investigation into how a Cylon agent (a copy of [[Aaron Doral]]) managed to get aboard the ''Galactica'', kill a guard, steal explosives and them blow himself up in a ship's corridor, almost killing Adama and Tigh ([[Litmus]]). When [[Socinus|one of his own Specialists]] is thrown in the brig for dereliction of duty which may have enabled the Cylon to access a weapons locker and steal the explosives, Tyrol is shocked into re-thinking his relationship with Valerii, and ends it himself.

While they continue to encounter one another professionallly - their work means they can hardly avoid one another - Tyrol and Valerii now have an uneasy distance between each other, and Valerii's actions around a captured Cylon [[Raider]] have begun to disturb Tyrol.

=== Kobol ===

When the [[Fleet]] discovers the planet believed to be [[Kobol]], Tyrol arranges for Socinus' release and summarily berates the specialist for lying to cover for him. Thereafter, Tyrol is part of the team assembled on the ill-fated recon Kobol on the [[Raptor 1]], which summarily crashlands near the ruins of the [[Tomb of Athena]]. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])

While Tyrol was the more experienced leader, his non-commissioned status left Lt. [[Crashdown]] in charge of the survivors. When Crashdown blamed [[Tarn]] for leaving a needed med kit behind -- Socinus was injured during the crash and a drug called [[serisone]] was needed to help him breathe -- Tyrol stepped in, recommending that he and Cally accompany Tarn. After successfully retrieving the kit from the Raptor crash site and heading back to the party, the trio was ambushed and Tarn was the only one killed. ([[Scattered]]) Eventually, he and Cally make it back to the party, only to find out that it is too late. With not other alternative, Tyrol euthanized Socinus with an overdose of [[morpha]] from both medkits. ([[Valley of Darkness]])

Upon discovering that the Cylons are setting up an anti-aircraft missle battery, Crashdown plans a strike to take the unit (and its accompany [[DRADIS]] dish) out of operation. While the others of his party, notably Baltar and Cally, attempt to voice their indignation of such a plan, Tyrol firmly reminds them that Crashdown is in charge. Despite Tyrol's own misgivings of how the plan is to be executed, they follow through to the point right before the attack.

When it became clear that there were five Cylons at the battery, Cally refused to act as a distraction. Tyrol attempted to difuse the situation by trying to state that the DRADIS dish was undefended; all that needed to be done was to destroy that, and the turret could not automatically target any incoming [[SAR]] operation. The event culumated to Crashdown threatening to kill Cally, resulting in Crashdown's death by Baltar.

As the command officer, per se, Tyrol later destroyed the DRADIS dish as the Cylons pursued them towards it. Summarily allowing a [[Raptor]] to dispatch the pursuing force ([[Fragged]]).

=== After Kobol ===

Tyrol was summarily arrested and interrogated by Colonel Tigh, due to his relationship with the assassin. Tigh accused him of being part of the plot to kill Adama, summarily throwing him in the same cell as Valerii. In order to extract information from Valerii, Baltar injected a drug that induced a systemic shutdown of Tyrol's organs. (This was during an alleged attempt to draw blood from Tyrol for Baltar's Cylon detector.) After extracting the number of Cylons in the Fleet from Valerii's subconscious, Tyrol was spared a painful death -- and was eventually proven to be a bona-fide human.

Tyrol was present when his own deckhand, Cally, killed Valerii, as Tyrol accompanied the security escort to Valerii's testing cell ([[Resistance]]). This act caused Tyrol to withdraw more from interaction with his own staff, many of which were already treating him coldly from his interaction with the now-confirmed Cylon copy of Valerii.

As with many on ''Galactica'', the stress of working without relief in sight or with little hope began to take its toll on Tyrol. For him, the challenge of keeping the old Vipers running with very few spare parts and sometimes extensive damage became too much to manage. Under pressure from [[CAG]] [[Lee Adama]] to keep his Vipers flying, and mostly because he had little else to do, he scribbled out a design for a new fighter and began to assemble it from basic metals and parts ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). Initially, his flight crews were skeptical that the Chief's project was anything but a pipe dream. But word soon spread as the fuselage formed and Tyrol's dream became reality. While Colonel Tigh was visibly against the project at first, Commander Adama noticed that the project, for whatever outcome it might yield, gave the crew something to strive for, something to hope for, and tacitly allowed work on the project for off-duty crew. Many others, including [[Dualla]] from the [[CIC]], and [[Kara Thrace]], lent a hand.

Tyrol's group was stuck when trying to place a skin on the new fighter, since spares were reserved for the Vipers. But Helo suggested carbon composite materials as an alternative to cover the ship. This solved the covering but added a significant new ability: Stealth. The carbon composites would make the new fighter practically invisible to [[DRADIS]] detection.

After the ship's [[Logic bomb]] crisis, the new fighter, named the [[Blackbird]], was given a trial flight by Kara Thrace, with very good results. In a ceremony, President Roslin christened the fighter, and Tyrol revealed the nickname of the fighter in honor of the President: ''Laura''.

=== Helo's Return ===

After the return of [[Karl C. Agathon]] and another version of Sharon Valerii, who happens to be pregnant with Agathon's child, the two attempt to reconcile their feelings for the biological creation. Helo and Tyrol eventually have a fistfight with lots of namecalling over what the Sharons were, but in reality, both were upset over the fact that the two Cylon copies were real people that they loved despite the reality of what they were ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

Later on, after the appearance of Admiral [[Nelena Cain]] and the advanced [[Mercury-class]] ''[[Pegasus]]'', he and Agathon stop Lt. [[Thorne]] from raping Sharon and Tyrol accidentally kills Thorne in the process. Tyrol and Agathon are summarily arrested and transfered to ''Pegasus'' for court martial, against Commander Adama's objections. However, Admiral Cain's "court martial" is over before Adama even knew it began, and she sentenced both to be executed for murder and treason. This prompted Adama to launch Vipers and a Raptor loaded with a marine strike team to recover them both ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

== Note ==

*[[Wikipedia:Galen|Galen]] is the name of a famed Greek doctor, who was first to argue that the mind was in the brain not the heart. This may be construed as irony, given Tyrol's part in the ongoing story.
*Tyrol's first name, Galen, was first revealed in Ron D. Moore's Podcast during Season 1, but it was not mentioned on screen until the Season 2 episode "[[Resistance]]".
*[[Wikipedia:Tyrol|Tyrol]] (or Tirol) is the name of a region in northern Italy.
*Ron D. Moore stated in an [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/2212/2/| interview with Now Playing Magazine] on 16 Sept, 2005 that Chief Tyrol is a Gemenon. This is in keeping with previously established facts about him: Gemenons are very religious, and Tyrol's father was a priest and his mother was an oracle.

[[Category:A to Z|Tyrol, Galen]]
[[Category:Characters|Tyrol, Galen]]
[[Category:RDM|Tyrol, Galen]]

Talk:Pegasus (episode)/Archive 1

2005-09-29T20:40:15Z

Feldspar: /* Mystery Cylon Ship Speculation */

== General Comments ==

For some reason, I'm really excited about this episode. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:28, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

== Proposed Episode Move ==
[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]], Did you move the "proposed episode" stuff to another article, or just delete it? It should definitely be somewhere here. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:25, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
*I deleted it. It's completely, and I mean ''completely'', irrelevant to this episode. It belongs on the page for the original Living Legend episodes, if at all. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

== Ad Spammers ==
Oh, great. Now it appears that whatever is SPAMing us with ad links got a user name: "Boomer". Although I think it might be possible for a zombie computer to do this, I'm leaning towards the idea that it's an actual person. They must be subjected to live unsedated vivisection. ---Ricimer 25 Aug 2005
: Yeah, this is a real person. But they are likely still controlling another computer to do it. There are a few ways to go about reducing this stuff, but what I really don't get is that some yahoo actually wastes their time spamming a board that has thousands--THOUSANDS--of people who read and edit it deily, eliminating their "work" in seconds. They're wasting their time more than they get on our nerves. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:02, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== New Battlestar Image==
There is a picture of the [[Mercury-class]] Battlestar in the preview after [[Flight of the Phoenix]]. We need a shot of Pegasus here on the page! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
:I noticed they still don't have the trailer up on the SciFi BSG page. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
::It was put up on SciFi approximately 2-3 days before the episode. Mildly annoying. [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:27 EDT, 24 September 2005

== SciFi's ''"Finale"'' Listing ==
Did you notice Pegasus advertised as the Season Finale of Galactica on SciFi channel last night? Did they split the run of 20 into two seasons? [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]
*On closer study, it said "Summer Finale." No idea what that means. [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

::How many times must we re-explain this? A normal season for a show on Scifi (Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, etc) has 20 episodes. What they do is they take the first half of these and run them during summer, then run the second half during February-May. ***They've done this for like 4-5 years now. --->What may confuse you is that their ''advertisements'' in commercials refer to it as a "summer season finale". '''That's just a marketing ploy. One Scifi Channel fans are all used to'''. Season 1 only had 13 episodes so they didn't do that then, but it's going to be in this new format forever. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005

== Mystery Cylon Ship Speculation ==
Any guesses what the mystery Cylon ship is for? [[User:Danaucpe|Danaucpe]]

*My guess is that its a Super Basestar--a ship so massive that it can create Basestars from natural resources of rocky planets. Whatever it is, it will take the combined forces of Pegasus and Galactica to take it down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
*That is, of course, if they can get past the two [[Cylon_Basestar|Basestars]] & various support craft mentioned in [[Pegasus]]. The only reason that the Basestar went down in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Kobol's Last Gleaming]] is through sheer cunning (even part of which may be suspect, seeing as [[Valeri, Sharon|Boomer]] is a [[Humano-Cylon]]). [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:11 EDT, 24 September 2005
*Well, if we are guessing. I'm going to look at the title of the next episode [[Resurrection Ship]] very literally. The [[Humano-Cylon]]'s have asserted that they can't be killed. When they die, their conciousness is downloaded into a new body, hence a resurrection of sorts. I would therefore speculate that this maybe a specialized vessel that helps facilitate these sorts of rebirths. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 16:40, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

== Blackbird FTL Capability ==
Any thoughts as to if the [[Blackbird]] is jump capable? [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]]
*That's a good point - it'd have to be if it was going to jump to the location of the Cylon fleet, but we know that normal Vipers aren't jump-capable, and I imagine that a ship equipped with FTL wouldn't be as stealthy or speedy as the Blackbird apparently is...[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:40, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
**I already updated "[[Blackbird]]" to say that it is presumably Jump capable, which makes sense if it's a stealth ship; if it has to be launched from a Battlestar that's not very stealthy because Battlestars are easy to see on DRADIS. It uses different engines which might be capable of limited Jumps. ---Ricimer, 24 Sept, 2005

: I think that the Blackbird may be Jump-capable, too--but until we see it, we shouldn't note it quite yet as fact. The point that Lee's Raptor was on its way to recon it suggests the Cylon fleet is aways off, and of course, if that fleet were in sublight range, we'd have a battle, so either Kara must have FTL, or has so much speed that she can approach and return on sublight within a reasonable time. Also, I strongly believe that FTL drives and sublight drives are NOT the same. Note Tigh's command in the Mini-Series to "spin up FTL drives 1 and 2." Since ''Galactica'' was already running on sublight engines at the time, the FTL drives are another mechanism and may not necessarily be within the same mechanism as the Blackbird's main sublight engines. Since we know that the Raptors DON'T use the same engines as the Blackbird, this gives more weight to the FTL drive being a separate box. Another wait-and-see point. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:04, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

*Also, seeing as we have not physically seen an [[FTL]] Drive, it's hard to say the size of the unit. It would be safe to say that it's proportional to the size of the ship, even in some cases, that multiple ones are used (as in [[Galactica]]'s case). -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 13:24 EDT, 26 September 2005.

== Pegasus contingent discussion ==
Wasn't the ''Pegasus'' contingent of Vipers going to go on the mission as well? Maybe the ''Pegasus'' was going to jump in behind the moon and launch Vipers after Apollo and Pegasus-CAG scouted out the system. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 13:39, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

*Possibly, but the episode only gave us the fact that the Raptor was doing "photo recon only". Another possibility is that the Vipers would be stationed at a staging point where the Raptor would jump ahead and back to. This would be especially useful if things got hairy. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 16:57 EDT, 26 September 2005

== Summaries vs Speculation ==

We're all anticipating these episodes, of course. It's important to note that rumors, speculation and other unaired hearsay about this episode is not fit for summary entries. The summary is the factual summation of the '''aired content'''. If the episode has yet to air, then it is best to place only the information that could be confirmed from the official Sci-Fi Channel preview (being careful not to intepret it literally since they are always out of context) or official information from [[RDM]] himself. There was an entry of Cain's demise and Adama's rank change in this episode, while we also have similar information in the later ep, [[Resurrection Ship]]. Neither can both be right, so we need to wait until we have verified information, which, if the pattern continues from other eps, only happen when the episode airs. Rumors can be placed here in Talk at any time, but you may want to state your source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:24, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

* Source of [[Spoiler]] [Cain's demise and Adama's rank change to Admiral] podcast http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/details.aspx?castid=5 (9-7-2005) Second half of podcast about (1hr 6mins) into podcast.

* Other podcasts have some interviews with Battlestar cast memebrs i.e (8-10-2005) (9-14-2005) etc

: Thanks. Who made this podcast? Normally we take just RDM's and David Eick's podcasts and videos as official, so cast member comments may or may not be accurate if RDM and Co. have to adjust schedules, episode airings and stuff. Can you elaborate? If you want to add the stuff I took off back in the meantime, please feel free--I'm not the police or anything; I just want to ensure we keep things to a credible-enough source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:35, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

==Philwelch & Ricimer==

On 20:26, 24 September 2005, Philwelch posted the following to the Analysis section:

:*''Aside from Cain herself, the crew of the ''Pegasus'' seems exclusively male. No other female crew members are ever shown, and the behavior of the drunken ''Pegasus'' crewmen isn't what we may expect from men who are accustomed to being around women. This may be a contributing factor to the behavior of the ''Pegasus'' 's crew—if they travelled through space as long as they did, believing they were the remainder of humanity, Cain's power over the crew would have been more than merely military in nature—as the only surviving human woman, Cain would hold absolute sexual power over her crew as well. In addition, the lack of women aboard the ''Pegasus'' and the resulting sexual frustration could have led to the overly regimented, authoritarian, and brutal culture the crew developed, culminating in the senseless, repeated gang rape of the Cylon prisoner [[Gina]].''
:*''It is interesting how the portrayal of Cally's killing Galactica-Boomer in "[[Resistance]]" contrasts with the portrayal of the brutalized Gina and the attempted rape of Boomer.''

On 20:53, 24 September 2005, Ricimer reverted it with the comments:

:''speculation; yes, there are female Pegasus crewmen seen in halls.'' and ''Cally's retirement f G-Boomer doesn't really contrast with the rape scenes here.''

Ricimer, I found those contributions to be interesting and valid, and would appreciate it if, in the future, you would amend them with your objections rather than deleting them outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:I've added a rebuttal of sorts to the former contribution, as I find it (to be frank) preposterous... although I am wary of seeing an [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is|encyclopedic]] page turn into a debate, it rather bothered me to see it there, so I added [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is_not|another view]]. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 18:48, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::We can always refactor the argument and clean it up. I do consider it notable that aside from the Admiral, there are no female crewmembers on Pegasus with speaking roles in this episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:50, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I picked up most of the idea from the Scifi.com forums, although it had occurred to me. If it was unintentional, then why not throw a woman in the background of the Pegasus CIC, or into the ready room? Why write the Pegasus deck gang as a group of crude gang rapists? Listen to the dialogue in that scene—that's *not* how men usually speak in mixed company, and the fact that they do speak that way in mixed company suggests they've forgotten how to act around women. I also find it amazing how many of us aren't quite as shocked at Boomer getting shot to death as we are at Boomer getting pinned down and almost raped by Lieutenant Thorne. The reason for that is probably that killing a Cylon has some sort of purpose, while raping one is just a sick and twisted way to cause pointless suffering. As for Ricimer, his edit warring and irrational vendetta against me must give some meaning to his life but I've learned to pretty much ignore him. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:Please, no ad hominem attacks either. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::Men don't act that way in mixed company? Must be I've been in college too long.. >_> ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 22:44, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:::If the other guys at your college boast about what a girl's face looks like when they gang rape her, I suggest you transfer. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:31, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::::That's not precisely what I meant... you miss my point, although I guess you do so intentionally. I was alluding to the fact that treating women as sexual objects, even in their presence, is not as unknown in our present culture as we might like to believe. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:52, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: As I read it, he got you. Or, anyway, I get you both. I think his point was not about sexual objectification, but about dehumanizing and boasting about rape. That's a bit more than just saying, "Oh. Bro. I'd tap ''that''." You know what I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:10, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

Compromise suggestions:

:The paucity of female crewmen on ''Pegasus'' is interesting, compared to the crew of ''Galactica''. Apart from Admiral Cain herself, only a few female extras can be seen in various scenes, and none have speaking roles in this episode. (The extras in Galactica's ready room, for example, are usually about 50% female; only a couple women are visible in the ready room scenes on ''Pegasus''.) This stands in notable contrast to Ron Moore's egalitarian vision of gender issues in the military, and appears to have been an intentional decision made during production.

:The ''Pegasus'' pilots don't appear to be accustomed to speaking in mixed company, either - they either ignore or fail to understand [[Cally]] and [[Selix]]'s disgust with their talk about gang-raping Gina.

No need to venture into "Mistress Cain" type "sexual domination" scenarios, in my opinion, but the lack of female presence in the lower ranks of ''Pegasus'' is a very distinct change from the rest of the series to date. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:46, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:That's not really what it says, and I think my original point stands—where there's a shortage of women, the natural power of each individual woman within that society is greater. You have to realize that if maybe 1 out of 50 people aboard Pegasus is a woman, and everybody aboard Pegasus lived the months since the holocaust believing they were all that was left of humanity, that's an incredible disparity in numbers. I don't think the sexual power of Cain or anyone else aboard ''Pegasus'' was explicit, but it's a fair guess to say it was there, under the surface. I also think it's a fair guess to say sexual frustration is a contributing factor to the sort of culture that developed aboard ''Pegasus'', particularly the gang rape of Gina. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:24, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Cain vs. Civies ==

I think that the proportion of females among the ''Pegasus'' crew is interesting and all, but I think it's much more interesting that Cain has such a dismissive attitude towards Roslin. Her Deck Chief was (he hints) forceably drafted into service after being rescued from the station just before the ''Pegasus'' lit out. This, paird with Cain's general disregard for Roslin indicate to ''me'' anyway, that she doesn't like civies hanging about. She doesn't want them looking over her shoulder, she doesn't want them asking for parts or asking for defense and the ''certainly'' doesn't want to be held accountable to them. Before she ran across our RTFF, she was Ultimate King for Life of All Humans. I think she doesn't want to give that up. On a more personal note: I hope she gets dragged before a civillian court for some reason and I hope Tom Zarek is on her jury. >;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:40, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

: Spoiler information on the mid-season opener suggests a different fate for Cain, of course. But I'm looking forward to Roslin stepping up to bat in challenging Cain just as Roslin challenged Adama. We know how THAT one went. :) Since Cain's such a person for regs, perhaps Roslin can throw a few of her own since the President ''is'' the Commander-In-Chief (even in the Colonial worlds) and should be able to give an Admiral a direct order--as well as indicating that what Cain is doing is a coup, against regs, and that ''Galactica'' is working on the President's orders. Perhaps Roslin can even order Cain relieved of command. I'm making bets that Roslin resolves this really, really fast, even so much as placing Colonial One in the line of fire to stop both. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:17, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I think the evidence from Kobol's Last Gleaming suggests that the Colonial President doesn't have those sort of broad powers over the military—Apollo is still guilty of mutiny even though he was acting to protect the President from an illegal coup, for instance. There seems to be a suggested separation of powers between the military and civilian governments. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:33, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::: True but conversely you could make the argument for military personnel being subordinate to the president from the mini-series where Roslin sends an order for Adama and the ''Galactica'' to come and assist in rescue operations. Another example would be from the episode [[33]], where Adama is seen actively soliciting Roslin's input regarding the Olympic Carrier, [[You Can't Go Home Again]] where Roslin arrives on ''Galactica'' to unofficially reprimand Adama regarding the reckless nature of his ongoing search for Starbuck. I agree that Roslin and Adama have come to an understanding that military decisions go through him but fleet matters belong to her but if tradition were to hold she is his boss. I suspect that Spencerian is right. Roslin will likely be the only one capable of defusing the situation we saw being Cain and Adama. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 16:34, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest stars ==

I updated the guest stars from the starting credits. The four credits included Forbes, Beckel, Pyper-Ferguson and Spence. I couldn't identify the name of Spence's character, but he is the pilot who brags about having 48 kills. Hope someone has a name for him. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 08:37, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest Star Trivia ==

Trivia note: The Pegasus pilot with the scorecard was played by Sebastian Spence, who starred as Cade Foster on SciFi's First Wave (I was wondering why he looked so familiar). Interestingly, the first Marine to step off Raptor 861 happens to look just like Roger R. Cross, who played Foster's nemeses on First Wave - Joshua and (even more interestingly) ''Cain''. --[[User:Dreampilotomega|Dream Pilot Omega]] 00:03, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Gina killed 800?==
Can someone quote me where in the episode it's stated that Gina killed 800 men? I know this was widely speculated prior to the episode, but this is what I actually heard: 700 Pegasus crewmen died in the initial attack, and Gina killed 7 of Thorne's men. Where does the 800 figure come from? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:06, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

: I remember hearing what you heard, Peter. I haven't had the time to go back and check, but I was going to and then bring it up. Just thought I'd mention that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:26, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: The 800 figure came from rumors regarding the ep. I've revised the numbers to suit the information revealed in this episode. Perhaps more will be revealed in "[[Resurrection Ship]]". -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:07, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Analysis==

:*''Apollo's shift to a Raptor pilot seems to have been perceived as a demotion by Starbuck. Yet, the CAG of the ''Pegasus'' was also going on the mission in the Raptor. Is this really a demotion or merely an opportunity for [[Taylor]] to evaluate a new pilot?''
:**''As CAG, it is assumed that Taylor would be a Viper pilot. Is his inclusion in the mission as a Raptor pilot do to the fact that he can only pilot a Raptor or that he feels he can more accurately direct the movements of the Vipers under his command with the advanced sensor gear available on a Raptor?''

I think this is quite clear. Taylor has essentially ordered Apollo to chauffeur him to the Cylon fleet, a duty easily fulfilled by someone of lower rank. As for Taylor himself, it's natural that he'd want a front-row seat on the recon mission.

:*''The behavior of the ''Pegasus'' personnel drinking on ''Galactica'' seemed unprofessional and more than a little rough. Are these actual military personnel or civilian personnel who were drafted into service after the Cylon's attack?''

They say themselves that they haven't had booze since the Cylon attack. They're probably out of practice holding their liquor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:I can see your point on this. However, I would state that if Taylor wanted a front row seat for the mission that he would've been just as likely to pilot a Viper. My take on it, and this is just my take, is that either way is speculative at this point. Taylor could've been trying to knock Apollo down a notch as he'd earlier in the same episode called him 'Daddy's boy.' --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:36, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:To be totally fair, I'm not sure any of my proposed analysis points were such that they required removal. They may not be the correct interpretation of the episode but I don't recall, any correct me if I'm wrong, anything that was displayed that would pre-empt them as being totally incorrect. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:38, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: Before I get to the point: It's hard to determine exactly who said what when you insert your comments inside someone else's, Feldspar. Just so you're aware. Anyway, the point. On the last bit, here, I agree that they were unprofessional and rough, but I would never have come up with the idea of that being because they're civilians ratehr than actual military on my own. There was nothing at all to indicate that and I don't think there's any kind of precedent set that would let us assume that because someone is unprofessional or rough or can't hold their liquor, that they're civilians, rather than military. That seems really out of the blue to me.

:: As for the first bit, if Cmdr. Adama had planned the recon mission (and, for some reason, not used the Blackbird), He'd prolly have had Apollo and Starbuck watching some no-name Raptor team. Piloting a Raptor is not so much a formal demotion as a standing demotion, I think. Vipers are where the glory is. It's like asking a pilot who flies an F-14 every day to fly an AWACS. They're slower, they're not in the middle of the action and they have no guns. As for the CAG from ''Pegasus'', I think he's either babysitting Apollo in order to keep an eye on him, or else maybe he's normally part of a Raptor crew. We don't know how it works, exactly, but I imagine that the CAG doesn't have to fly a Viper. It's whichever pilot is most senior. However, he seems to be doing ECO duty for Apollo, which is not a pilot's job, so... go figure. Probably more will be revealed on this point in January. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:51, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:::Cleaned up my followup, I agree the way I'd put it in there was far from intuitive. My apologies to any confusion this may have caused. My intention was not to pass off any assertions I may have had as someone elses. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:58, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be a Nazi, and I appreciate your contributions. I just considered these too obvious to be noteworthy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:12, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

Talk:Pegasus (episode)/Archive 1

2005-09-29T20:34:15Z

Feldspar: /* Cain vs. Civies */

== General Comments ==

For some reason, I'm really excited about this episode. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:28, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

== Proposed Episode Move ==
[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]], Did you move the "proposed episode" stuff to another article, or just delete it? It should definitely be somewhere here. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:25, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
*I deleted it. It's completely, and I mean ''completely'', irrelevant to this episode. It belongs on the page for the original Living Legend episodes, if at all. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

== Ad Spammers ==
Oh, great. Now it appears that whatever is SPAMing us with ad links got a user name: "Boomer". Although I think it might be possible for a zombie computer to do this, I'm leaning towards the idea that it's an actual person. They must be subjected to live unsedated vivisection. ---Ricimer 25 Aug 2005
: Yeah, this is a real person. But they are likely still controlling another computer to do it. There are a few ways to go about reducing this stuff, but what I really don't get is that some yahoo actually wastes their time spamming a board that has thousands--THOUSANDS--of people who read and edit it deily, eliminating their "work" in seconds. They're wasting their time more than they get on our nerves. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:02, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== New Battlestar Image==
There is a picture of the [[Mercury-class]] Battlestar in the preview after [[Flight of the Phoenix]]. We need a shot of Pegasus here on the page! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
:I noticed they still don't have the trailer up on the SciFi BSG page. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
::It was put up on SciFi approximately 2-3 days before the episode. Mildly annoying. [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:27 EDT, 24 September 2005

== SciFi's ''"Finale"'' Listing ==
Did you notice Pegasus advertised as the Season Finale of Galactica on SciFi channel last night? Did they split the run of 20 into two seasons? [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]
*On closer study, it said "Summer Finale." No idea what that means. [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

::How many times must we re-explain this? A normal season for a show on Scifi (Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, etc) has 20 episodes. What they do is they take the first half of these and run them during summer, then run the second half during February-May. ***They've done this for like 4-5 years now. --->What may confuse you is that their ''advertisements'' in commercials refer to it as a "summer season finale". '''That's just a marketing ploy. One Scifi Channel fans are all used to'''. Season 1 only had 13 episodes so they didn't do that then, but it's going to be in this new format forever. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005

== Mystery Cylon Ship Speculation ==
Any guesses what the mystery Cylon ship is for? [[User:Danaucpe|Danaucpe]]

*My guess is that its a Super Basestar--a ship so massive that it can create Basestars from natural resources of rocky planets. Whatever it is, it will take the combined forces of Pegasus and Galactica to take it down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
*That is, of course, if they can get past the two [[Cylon_Basestar|Basestars]] & various support craft mentioned in [[Pegasus]]. The only reason that the Basestar went down in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Kobol's Last Gleaming]] is through sheer cunning (even part of which may be suspect, seeing as [[Valeri, Sharon|Boomer]] is a [[Humano-Cylon]]). [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:11 EDT, 24 September 2005

== Blackbird FTL Capability ==
Any thoughts as to if the [[Blackbird]] is jump capable? [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]]
*That's a good point - it'd have to be if it was going to jump to the location of the Cylon fleet, but we know that normal Vipers aren't jump-capable, and I imagine that a ship equipped with FTL wouldn't be as stealthy or speedy as the Blackbird apparently is...[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:40, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
**I already updated "[[Blackbird]]" to say that it is presumably Jump capable, which makes sense if it's a stealth ship; if it has to be launched from a Battlestar that's not very stealthy because Battlestars are easy to see on DRADIS. It uses different engines which might be capable of limited Jumps. ---Ricimer, 24 Sept, 2005

: I think that the Blackbird may be Jump-capable, too--but until we see it, we shouldn't note it quite yet as fact. The point that Lee's Raptor was on its way to recon it suggests the Cylon fleet is aways off, and of course, if that fleet were in sublight range, we'd have a battle, so either Kara must have FTL, or has so much speed that she can approach and return on sublight within a reasonable time. Also, I strongly believe that FTL drives and sublight drives are NOT the same. Note Tigh's command in the Mini-Series to "spin up FTL drives 1 and 2." Since ''Galactica'' was already running on sublight engines at the time, the FTL drives are another mechanism and may not necessarily be within the same mechanism as the Blackbird's main sublight engines. Since we know that the Raptors DON'T use the same engines as the Blackbird, this gives more weight to the FTL drive being a separate box. Another wait-and-see point. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:04, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

*Also, seeing as we have not physically seen an [[FTL]] Drive, it's hard to say the size of the unit. It would be safe to say that it's proportional to the size of the ship, even in some cases, that multiple ones are used (as in [[Galactica]]'s case). -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 13:24 EDT, 26 September 2005.

== Pegasus contingent discussion ==
Wasn't the ''Pegasus'' contingent of Vipers going to go on the mission as well? Maybe the ''Pegasus'' was going to jump in behind the moon and launch Vipers after Apollo and Pegasus-CAG scouted out the system. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 13:39, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

*Possibly, but the episode only gave us the fact that the Raptor was doing "photo recon only". Another possibility is that the Vipers would be stationed at a staging point where the Raptor would jump ahead and back to. This would be especially useful if things got hairy. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 16:57 EDT, 26 September 2005

== Summaries vs Speculation ==

We're all anticipating these episodes, of course. It's important to note that rumors, speculation and other unaired hearsay about this episode is not fit for summary entries. The summary is the factual summation of the '''aired content'''. If the episode has yet to air, then it is best to place only the information that could be confirmed from the official Sci-Fi Channel preview (being careful not to intepret it literally since they are always out of context) or official information from [[RDM]] himself. There was an entry of Cain's demise and Adama's rank change in this episode, while we also have similar information in the later ep, [[Resurrection Ship]]. Neither can both be right, so we need to wait until we have verified information, which, if the pattern continues from other eps, only happen when the episode airs. Rumors can be placed here in Talk at any time, but you may want to state your source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:24, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

* Source of [[Spoiler]] [Cain's demise and Adama's rank change to Admiral] podcast http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/details.aspx?castid=5 (9-7-2005) Second half of podcast about (1hr 6mins) into podcast.

* Other podcasts have some interviews with Battlestar cast memebrs i.e (8-10-2005) (9-14-2005) etc

: Thanks. Who made this podcast? Normally we take just RDM's and David Eick's podcasts and videos as official, so cast member comments may or may not be accurate if RDM and Co. have to adjust schedules, episode airings and stuff. Can you elaborate? If you want to add the stuff I took off back in the meantime, please feel free--I'm not the police or anything; I just want to ensure we keep things to a credible-enough source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:35, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

==Philwelch & Ricimer==

On 20:26, 24 September 2005, Philwelch posted the following to the Analysis section:

:*''Aside from Cain herself, the crew of the ''Pegasus'' seems exclusively male. No other female crew members are ever shown, and the behavior of the drunken ''Pegasus'' crewmen isn't what we may expect from men who are accustomed to being around women. This may be a contributing factor to the behavior of the ''Pegasus'' 's crew—if they travelled through space as long as they did, believing they were the remainder of humanity, Cain's power over the crew would have been more than merely military in nature—as the only surviving human woman, Cain would hold absolute sexual power over her crew as well. In addition, the lack of women aboard the ''Pegasus'' and the resulting sexual frustration could have led to the overly regimented, authoritarian, and brutal culture the crew developed, culminating in the senseless, repeated gang rape of the Cylon prisoner [[Gina]].''
:*''It is interesting how the portrayal of Cally's killing Galactica-Boomer in "[[Resistance]]" contrasts with the portrayal of the brutalized Gina and the attempted rape of Boomer.''

On 20:53, 24 September 2005, Ricimer reverted it with the comments:

:''speculation; yes, there are female Pegasus crewmen seen in halls.'' and ''Cally's retirement f G-Boomer doesn't really contrast with the rape scenes here.''

Ricimer, I found those contributions to be interesting and valid, and would appreciate it if, in the future, you would amend them with your objections rather than deleting them outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:I've added a rebuttal of sorts to the former contribution, as I find it (to be frank) preposterous... although I am wary of seeing an [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is|encyclopedic]] page turn into a debate, it rather bothered me to see it there, so I added [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is_not|another view]]. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 18:48, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::We can always refactor the argument and clean it up. I do consider it notable that aside from the Admiral, there are no female crewmembers on Pegasus with speaking roles in this episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:50, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I picked up most of the idea from the Scifi.com forums, although it had occurred to me. If it was unintentional, then why not throw a woman in the background of the Pegasus CIC, or into the ready room? Why write the Pegasus deck gang as a group of crude gang rapists? Listen to the dialogue in that scene—that's *not* how men usually speak in mixed company, and the fact that they do speak that way in mixed company suggests they've forgotten how to act around women. I also find it amazing how many of us aren't quite as shocked at Boomer getting shot to death as we are at Boomer getting pinned down and almost raped by Lieutenant Thorne. The reason for that is probably that killing a Cylon has some sort of purpose, while raping one is just a sick and twisted way to cause pointless suffering. As for Ricimer, his edit warring and irrational vendetta against me must give some meaning to his life but I've learned to pretty much ignore him. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:Please, no ad hominem attacks either. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::Men don't act that way in mixed company? Must be I've been in college too long.. >_> ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 22:44, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:::If the other guys at your college boast about what a girl's face looks like when they gang rape her, I suggest you transfer. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:31, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::::That's not precisely what I meant... you miss my point, although I guess you do so intentionally. I was alluding to the fact that treating women as sexual objects, even in their presence, is not as unknown in our present culture as we might like to believe. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:52, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: As I read it, he got you. Or, anyway, I get you both. I think his point was not about sexual objectification, but about dehumanizing and boasting about rape. That's a bit more than just saying, "Oh. Bro. I'd tap ''that''." You know what I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:10, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

Compromise suggestions:

:The paucity of female crewmen on ''Pegasus'' is interesting, compared to the crew of ''Galactica''. Apart from Admiral Cain herself, only a few female extras can be seen in various scenes, and none have speaking roles in this episode. (The extras in Galactica's ready room, for example, are usually about 50% female; only a couple women are visible in the ready room scenes on ''Pegasus''.) This stands in notable contrast to Ron Moore's egalitarian vision of gender issues in the military, and appears to have been an intentional decision made during production.

:The ''Pegasus'' pilots don't appear to be accustomed to speaking in mixed company, either - they either ignore or fail to understand [[Cally]] and [[Selix]]'s disgust with their talk about gang-raping Gina.

No need to venture into "Mistress Cain" type "sexual domination" scenarios, in my opinion, but the lack of female presence in the lower ranks of ''Pegasus'' is a very distinct change from the rest of the series to date. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:46, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:That's not really what it says, and I think my original point stands—where there's a shortage of women, the natural power of each individual woman within that society is greater. You have to realize that if maybe 1 out of 50 people aboard Pegasus is a woman, and everybody aboard Pegasus lived the months since the holocaust believing they were all that was left of humanity, that's an incredible disparity in numbers. I don't think the sexual power of Cain or anyone else aboard ''Pegasus'' was explicit, but it's a fair guess to say it was there, under the surface. I also think it's a fair guess to say sexual frustration is a contributing factor to the sort of culture that developed aboard ''Pegasus'', particularly the gang rape of Gina. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:24, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Cain vs. Civies ==

I think that the proportion of females among the ''Pegasus'' crew is interesting and all, but I think it's much more interesting that Cain has such a dismissive attitude towards Roslin. Her Deck Chief was (he hints) forceably drafted into service after being rescued from the station just before the ''Pegasus'' lit out. This, paird with Cain's general disregard for Roslin indicate to ''me'' anyway, that she doesn't like civies hanging about. She doesn't want them looking over her shoulder, she doesn't want them asking for parts or asking for defense and the ''certainly'' doesn't want to be held accountable to them. Before she ran across our RTFF, she was Ultimate King for Life of All Humans. I think she doesn't want to give that up. On a more personal note: I hope she gets dragged before a civillian court for some reason and I hope Tom Zarek is on her jury. >;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:40, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

: Spoiler information on the mid-season opener suggests a different fate for Cain, of course. But I'm looking forward to Roslin stepping up to bat in challenging Cain just as Roslin challenged Adama. We know how THAT one went. :) Since Cain's such a person for regs, perhaps Roslin can throw a few of her own since the President ''is'' the Commander-In-Chief (even in the Colonial worlds) and should be able to give an Admiral a direct order--as well as indicating that what Cain is doing is a coup, against regs, and that ''Galactica'' is working on the President's orders. Perhaps Roslin can even order Cain relieved of command. I'm making bets that Roslin resolves this really, really fast, even so much as placing Colonial One in the line of fire to stop both. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:17, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I think the evidence from Kobol's Last Gleaming suggests that the Colonial President doesn't have those sort of broad powers over the military—Apollo is still guilty of mutiny even though he was acting to protect the President from an illegal coup, for instance. There seems to be a suggested separation of powers between the military and civilian governments. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:33, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::: True but conversely you could make the argument for military personnel being subordinate to the president from the mini-series where Roslin sends an order for Adama and the ''Galactica'' to come and assist in rescue operations. Another example would be from the episode [[33]], where Adama is seen actively soliciting Roslin's input regarding the Olympic Carrier, [[You Can't Go Home Again]] where Roslin arrives on ''Galactica'' to unofficially reprimand Adama regarding the reckless nature of his ongoing search for Starbuck. I agree that Roslin and Adama have come to an understanding that military decisions go through him but fleet matters belong to her but if tradition were to hold she is his boss. I suspect that Spencerian is right. Roslin will likely be the only one capable of defusing the situation we saw being Cain and Adama. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 16:34, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest stars ==

I updated the guest stars from the starting credits. The four credits included Forbes, Beckel, Pyper-Ferguson and Spence. I couldn't identify the name of Spence's character, but he is the pilot who brags about having 48 kills. Hope someone has a name for him. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 08:37, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest Star Trivia ==

Trivia note: The Pegasus pilot with the scorecard was played by Sebastian Spence, who starred as Cade Foster on SciFi's First Wave (I was wondering why he looked so familiar). Interestingly, the first Marine to step off Raptor 861 happens to look just like Roger R. Cross, who played Foster's nemeses on First Wave - Joshua and (even more interestingly) ''Cain''. --[[User:Dreampilotomega|Dream Pilot Omega]] 00:03, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Gina killed 800?==
Can someone quote me where in the episode it's stated that Gina killed 800 men? I know this was widely speculated prior to the episode, but this is what I actually heard: 700 Pegasus crewmen died in the initial attack, and Gina killed 7 of Thorne's men. Where does the 800 figure come from? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:06, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

: I remember hearing what you heard, Peter. I haven't had the time to go back and check, but I was going to and then bring it up. Just thought I'd mention that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:26, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: The 800 figure came from rumors regarding the ep. I've revised the numbers to suit the information revealed in this episode. Perhaps more will be revealed in "[[Resurrection Ship]]". -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:07, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Analysis==

:*''Apollo's shift to a Raptor pilot seems to have been perceived as a demotion by Starbuck. Yet, the CAG of the ''Pegasus'' was also going on the mission in the Raptor. Is this really a demotion or merely an opportunity for [[Taylor]] to evaluate a new pilot?''
:**''As CAG, it is assumed that Taylor would be a Viper pilot. Is his inclusion in the mission as a Raptor pilot do to the fact that he can only pilot a Raptor or that he feels he can more accurately direct the movements of the Vipers under his command with the advanced sensor gear available on a Raptor?''

I think this is quite clear. Taylor has essentially ordered Apollo to chauffeur him to the Cylon fleet, a duty easily fulfilled by someone of lower rank. As for Taylor himself, it's natural that he'd want a front-row seat on the recon mission.

:*''The behavior of the ''Pegasus'' personnel drinking on ''Galactica'' seemed unprofessional and more than a little rough. Are these actual military personnel or civilian personnel who were drafted into service after the Cylon's attack?''

They say themselves that they haven't had booze since the Cylon attack. They're probably out of practice holding their liquor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:I can see your point on this. However, I would state that if Taylor wanted a front row seat for the mission that he would've been just as likely to pilot a Viper. My take on it, and this is just my take, is that either way is speculative at this point. Taylor could've been trying to knock Apollo down a notch as he'd earlier in the same episode called him 'Daddy's boy.' --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:36, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:To be totally fair, I'm not sure any of my proposed analysis points were such that they required removal. They may not be the correct interpretation of the episode but I don't recall, any correct me if I'm wrong, anything that was displayed that would pre-empt them as being totally incorrect. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:38, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: Before I get to the point: It's hard to determine exactly who said what when you insert your comments inside someone else's, Feldspar. Just so you're aware. Anyway, the point. On the last bit, here, I agree that they were unprofessional and rough, but I would never have come up with the idea of that being because they're civilians ratehr than actual military on my own. There was nothing at all to indicate that and I don't think there's any kind of precedent set that would let us assume that because someone is unprofessional or rough or can't hold their liquor, that they're civilians, rather than military. That seems really out of the blue to me.

:: As for the first bit, if Cmdr. Adama had planned the recon mission (and, for some reason, not used the Blackbird), He'd prolly have had Apollo and Starbuck watching some no-name Raptor team. Piloting a Raptor is not so much a formal demotion as a standing demotion, I think. Vipers are where the glory is. It's like asking a pilot who flies an F-14 every day to fly an AWACS. They're slower, they're not in the middle of the action and they have no guns. As for the CAG from ''Pegasus'', I think he's either babysitting Apollo in order to keep an eye on him, or else maybe he's normally part of a Raptor crew. We don't know how it works, exactly, but I imagine that the CAG doesn't have to fly a Viper. It's whichever pilot is most senior. However, he seems to be doing ECO duty for Apollo, which is not a pilot's job, so... go figure. Probably more will be revealed on this point in January. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:51, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:::Cleaned up my followup, I agree the way I'd put it in there was far from intuitive. My apologies to any confusion this may have caused. My intention was not to pass off any assertions I may have had as someone elses. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:58, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be a Nazi, and I appreciate your contributions. I just considered these too obvious to be noteworthy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:12, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

Talk:Pegasus (episode)/Archive 1

2005-09-27T21:58:52Z

Feldspar: /* Analysis */

For some reason, I'm really excited about this episode. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:28, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Oh, great. Now it appears that whatever is SPAMing us with ad links got a user name: "Boomer". Although I think it might be possible for a zombie computer to do this, I'm leaning towards the idea that it's an actual person. They must be subjected to live unsedated vivisection. ---Ricimer 25 Aug 2005
: Yeah, this is a real person. But they are likely still controlling another computer to do it. There are a few ways to go about reducing this stuff, but what I really don't get is that some yahoo actually wastes their time spamming a board that has thousands--THOUSANDS--of people who read and edit it deily, eliminating their "work" in seconds. They're wasting their time more than they get on our nerves. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:02, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]], Did you move the "proposed episode" stuff to another article, or just delete it? It should definitely be somewhere here. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:25, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
*I deleted it. It's completely, and I mean ''completely'', irrelevant to this episode. It belongs on the page for the original Living Legend episodes, if at all. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

There is a picture of the [[Mercury-class]] Battlestar in the preview after [[Flight of the Phoenix]]. We need a shot of Pegasus here on the page! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
*I noticed they still don't have the trailer up on the SciFi BSG page. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
*It was put up on SciFi approximately 2-3 days before the episode. Mildly annoying. [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:27 EDT, 24 September 2005

Did you notice Pegasus advertised as the Season Finale of Galactica on SciFi channel last night? Did they split the run of 20 into two seasons? [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]
*On closer study, it said "Summer Finale." No idea what that means. [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

::How many times must we re-explain this? A normal season for a show on Scifi (Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, etc) has 20 episodes. What they do is they take the first half of these and run them during summer, then run the second half during February-May. ***They've done this for like 4-5 years now. --->What may confuse you is that their ''advertisements'' in commercials refer to it as a "summer season finale". '''That's just a marketing ploy. One Scifi Channel fans are all used to'''. Season 1 only had 13 episodes so they didn't do that then, but it's going to be in this new format forever. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005

Any guesses what the mystery Cylon ship is for? [[User:Danaucpe|Danaucpe]]

*My guess is that its a Super Basestar--a ship so massive that it can create Basestars from natural resources of rocky planets. Whatever it is, it will take the combined forces of Pegasus and Galactica to take it down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
*That is, of course, if they can get past the two [[Cylon_Basestar|Basestars]] & various support craft mentioned in [[Pegasus]]. The only reason that the Basestar went down in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Kobol's Last Gleaming]] is through sheer cunning (even part of which may be suspect, seeing as [[Valeri, Sharon|Boomer]] is a [[Humano-Cylon]]). [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:11 EDT, 24 September 2005

Any thoughts as to if the [[Blackbird]] is jump capable? [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]]
*That's a good point - it'd have to be if it was going to jump to the location of the Cylon fleet, but we know that normal Vipers aren't jump-capable, and I imagine that a ship equipped with FTL wouldn't be as stealthy or speedy as the Blackbird apparently is...[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:40, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
**I already updated "[[Blackbird]]" to say that it is presumably Jump capable, which makes sense if it's a stealth ship; if it has to be launched from a Battlestar that's not very stealthy because Battlestars are easy to see on DRADIS. It uses different engines which might be capable of limited Jumps. ---Ricimer, 24 Sept, 2005

: I think that the Blackbird may be Jump-capable, too--but until we see it, we shouldn't note it quite yet as fact. The point that Lee's Raptor was on its way to recon it suggests the Cylon fleet is aways off, and of course, if that fleet were in sublight range, we'd have a battle, so either Kara must have FTL, or has so much speed that she can approach and return on sublight within a reasonable time. Also, I strongly believe that FTL drives and sublight drives are NOT the same. Note Tigh's command in the Mini-Series to "spin up FTL drives 1 and 2." Since ''Galactica'' was already running on sublight engines at the time, the FTL drives are another mechanism and may not necessarily be within the same mechanism as the Blackbird's main sublight engines. Since we know that the Raptors DON'T use the same engines as the Blackbird, this gives more weight to the FTL drive being a separate box. Another wait-and-see point. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:04, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

*Also, seeing as we have not physically seen an [[FTL]] Drive, it's hard to say the size of the unit. It would be safe to say that it's proportional to the size of the ship, even in some cases, that multiple ones are used (as in [[Galactica]]'s case. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 13:24 EDT, 26 September 2005.

Wasn't the ''Pegasus'' contingent of Vipers going to go on the mission as well? Maybe the ''Pegasus'' was going to jump in behind the moon and launch Vipers after Apollo and Pegasus-CAG scouted out the system. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 13:39, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

*Possibly, but the episode only gave us the fact that the Raptor was doing "photo recon only". Another possibility is that the Vipers would be stationed at a staging point where the Raptor would jump ahead and back to. This would be especially useful if things got hairy. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 16:57 EDT, 26 September 2005

== Summaries vs Speculation ==

We're all anticipating these episodes, of course. It's important to note that rumors, speculation and other unaired hearsay about this episode is not fit for summary entries. The summary is the factual summation of the '''aired content'''. If the episode has yet to air, then it is best to place only the information that could be confirmed from the official Sci-Fi Channel preview (being careful not to intepret it literally since they are always out of context) or official information from [[RDM]] himself. There was an entry of Cain's demise and Adama's rank change in this episode, while we also have similar information in the later ep, [[Resurrection Ship]]. Neither can both be right, so we need to wait until we have verified information, which, if the pattern continues from other eps, only happen when the episode airs. Rumors can be placed here in Talk at any time, but you may want to state your source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:24, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

* Source of [[Spoiler]] [Cain's demise and Adama's rank change to Admiral] podcast http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/details.aspx?castid=5 (9-7-2005) Second half of podcast about (1hr 6mins) into podcast.

* Other podcasts have some interviews with Battlestar cast memebrs i.e (8-10-2005) (9-14-2005) etc

: Thanks. Who made this podcast? Normally we take just RDM's and David Eick's podcasts and videos as official, so cast member comments may or may not be accurate if RDM and Co. have to adjust schedules, episode airings and stuff. Can you elaborate? If you want to add the stuff I took off back in the meantime, please feel free--I'm not the police or anything; I just want to ensure we keep things to a credible-enough source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:35, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

==Philwelch & Ricimer==

On 20:26, 24 September 2005, Philwelch posted the following to the Analysis section:

:*''Aside from Cain herself, the crew of the ''Pegasus'' seems exclusively male. No other female crew members are ever shown, and the behavior of the drunken ''Pegasus'' crewmen isn't what we may expect from men who are accustomed to being around women. This may be a contributing factor to the behavior of the ''Pegasus'' 's crew—if they travelled through space as long as they did, believing they were the remainder of humanity, Cain's power over the crew would have been more than merely military in nature—as the only surviving human woman, Cain would hold absolute sexual power over her crew as well. In addition, the lack of women aboard the ''Pegasus'' and the resulting sexual frustration could have led to the overly regimented, authoritarian, and brutal culture the crew developed, culminating in the senseless, repeated gang rape of the Cylon prisoner [[Gina]].''
:*''It is interesting how the portrayal of Cally's killing Galactica-Boomer in "[[Resistance]]" contrasts with the portrayal of the brutalized Gina and the attempted rape of Boomer.''

On 20:53, 24 September 2005, Ricimer reverted it with the comments:

:''speculation; yes, there are female Pegasus crewmen seen in halls.'' and ''Cally's retirement f G-Boomer doesn't really contrast with the rape scenes here.''

Ricimer, I found those contributions to be interesting and valid, and would appreciate it if, in the future, you would amend them with your objections rather than deleting them outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:I've added a rebuttal of sorts to the former contribution, as I find it (to be frank) preposterous... although I am wary of seeing an [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is|encyclopedic]] page turn into a debate, it rather bothered me to see it there, so I added [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is_not|another view]]. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 18:48, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::We can always refactor the argument and clean it up. I do consider it notable that aside from the Admiral, there are no female crewmembers on Pegasus with speaking roles in this episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:50, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I picked up most of the idea from the Scifi.com forums, although it had occurred to me. If it was unintentional, then why not throw a woman in the background of the Pegasus CIC, or into the ready room? Why write the Pegasus deck gang as a group of crude gang rapists? Listen to the dialogue in that scene—that's *not* how men usually speak in mixed company, and the fact that they do speak that way in mixed company suggests they've forgotten how to act around women. I also find it amazing how many of us aren't quite as shocked at Boomer getting shot to death as we are at Boomer getting pinned down and almost raped by Lieutenant Thorne. The reason for that is probably that killing a Cylon has some sort of purpose, while raping one is just a sick and twisted way to cause pointless suffering. As for Ricimer, his edit warring and irrational vendetta against me must give some meaning to his life but I've learned to pretty much ignore him. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:Please, no ad hominem attacks either. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::Men don't act that way in mixed company? Must be I've been in college too long.. >_> ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 22:44, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:::If the other guys at your college boast about what a girl's face looks like when they gang rape her, I suggest you transfer. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:31, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::::That's not precisely what I meant... you miss my point, although I guess you do so intentionally. I was alluding to the fact that treating women as sexual objects, even in their presence, is not as unknown in our present culture as we might like to believe. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:52, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: As I read it, he got you. Or, anyway, I get you both. I think his point was not about sexual objectification, but about dehumanizing and boasting about rape. That's a bit more than just saying, "Oh. Bro. I'd tap ''that''." You know what I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:10, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

Compromise suggestions:

:The paucity of female crewmen on ''Pegasus'' is interesting, compared to the crew of ''Galactica''. Apart from Admiral Cain herself, only a few female extras can be seen in various scenes, and none have speaking roles in this episode. (The extras in Galactica's ready room, for example, are usually about 50% female; only a couple women are visible in the ready room scenes on ''Pegasus''.) This stands in notable contrast to Ron Moore's egalitarian vision of gender issues in the military, and appears to have been an intentional decision made during production.

:The ''Pegasus'' pilots don't appear to be accustomed to speaking in mixed company, either - they either ignore or fail to understand [[Cally]] and [[Selix]]'s disgust with their talk about gang-raping Gina.

No need to venture into "Mistress Cain" type "sexual domination" scenarios, in my opinion, but the lack of female presence in the lower ranks of ''Pegasus'' is a very distinct change from the rest of the series to date. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:46, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:That's not really what it says, and I think my original point stands—where there's a shortage of women, the natural power of each individual woman within that society is greater. You have to realize that if maybe 1 out of 50 people aboard Pegasus is a woman, and everybody aboard Pegasus lived the months since the holocaust believing they were all that was left of humanity, that's an incredible disparity in numbers. I don't think the sexual power of Cain or anyone else aboard ''Pegasus'' was explicit, but it's a fair guess to say it was there, under the surface. I also think it's a fair guess to say sexual frustration is a contributing factor to the sort of culture that developed aboard ''Pegasus'', particularly the gang rape of Gina. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:24, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Cain vs. Civies ==

I think that the proportion of females among the ''Pegasus'' crew is interesting and all, but I think it's much more interesting that Cain has such a dismissive attitude towards Roslin. Her Deck Chief was (he hints) forceably drafted into service after being rescued from the station just before the ''Pegasus'' lit out. This, paird with Cain's general disregard for Roslin indicate to ''me'' anyway, that she doesn't like civies hanging about. She doesn't want them looking over her shoulder, she doesn't want them asking for parts or asking for defense and the ''certainly'' doesn't want to be held accountable to them. Before she ran across our RTFF, she was Ultimate King for Life of All Humans. I think she doesn't want to give that up. On a more personal note: I hope she gets dragged before a civillian court for some reason and I hope Tom Zarek is on her jury. >;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:40, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

: Spoiler information on the mid-season opener suggests a different fate for Cain, of course. But I'm looking forward to Roslin stepping up to bat in challenging Cain just as Roslin challenged Adama. We know how THAT one went. :) Since Cain's such a person for regs, perhaps Roslin can throw a few of her own since the President ''is'' the Commander-In-Chief (even in the Colonial worlds) and should be able to give an Admiral a direct order--as well as indicating that what Cain is doing is a coup, against regs, and that ''Galactica'' is working on the President's orders. Perhaps Roslin can even order Cain relieved of command. I'm making bets that Roslin resolves this really, really fast, even so much as placing Colonial One in the line of fire to stop both. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:17, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I think the evidence from Kobol's Last Gleaming suggests that the Colonial President doesn't have those sort of broad powers over the military—Apollo is still guilty of mutiny even though he was acting to protect the President from an illegal coup, for instance. There seems to be a suggested separation of powers between the military and civilian governments. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:33, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest stars ==

I updated the guest stars from the starting credits. The four credits included Forbes, Beckel, Pyper-Ferguson and Spence. I couldn't identify the name of Spence's character, but he is the pilot who brags about having 48 kills. Hope someone has a name for him. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 08:37, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest Star Trivia ==

Trivia note: The Pegasus pilot with the scorecard was played by Sebastian Spence, who starred as Cade Foster on SciFi's First Wave (I was wondering why he looked so familiar). Interestingly, the first Marine to step off Raptor 861 happens to look just like Roger R. Cross, who played Foster's nemeses on First Wave - Joshua and (even more interestingly) ''Cain''. --[[User:Dreampilotomega|Dream Pilot Omega]] 00:03, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Gina killed 800?==
Can someone quote me where in the episode it's stated that Gina killed 800 men? I know this was widely speculated prior to the episode, but this is what I actually heard: 700 Pegasus crewmen died in the initial attack, and Gina killed 7 of Thorne's men. Where does the 800 figure come from? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:06, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

: I remember hearing what you heard, Peter. I haven't had the time to go back and check, but I was going to and then bring it up. Just thought I'd mention that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:26, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: The 800 figure came from rumors regarding the ep. I've revised the numbers to suit the information revealed in this episode. Perhaps more will be revealed in "[[Resurrection Ship]]". -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:07, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Analysis==

:*''Apollo's shift to a Raptor pilot seems to have been perceived as a demotion by Starbuck. Yet, the CAG of the ''Pegasus'' was also going on the mission in the Raptor. Is this really a demotion or merely an opportunity for [[Taylor]] to evaluate a new pilot?''
:**''As CAG, it is assumed that Taylor would be a Viper pilot. Is his inclusion in the mission as a Raptor pilot do to the fact that he can only pilot a Raptor or that he feels he can more accurately direct the movements of the Vipers under his command with the advanced sensor gear available on a Raptor?''

I think this is quite clear. Taylor has essentially ordered Apollo to chauffeur him to the Cylon fleet, a duty easily fulfilled by someone of lower rank. As for Taylor himself, it's natural that he'd want a front-row seat on the recon mission.

:*''The behavior of the ''Pegasus'' personnel drinking on ''Galactica'' seemed unprofessional and more than a little rough. Are these actual military personnel or civilian personnel who were drafted into service after the Cylon's attack?''

They say themselves that they haven't had booze since the Cylon attack. They're probably out of practice holding their liquor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:I can see your point on this. However, I would state that if Taylor wanted a front row seat for the mission that he would've been just as likely to pilot a Viper. My take on it, and this is just my take, is that either way is speculative at this point. Taylor could've been trying to knock Apollo down a notch as he'd earlier in the same episode called him 'Daddy's boy.' --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:36, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:To be totally fair, I'm not sure any of my proposed analysis points were such that they required removal. They may not be the correct interpretation of the episode but I don't recall, any correct me if I'm wrong, anything that was displayed that would pre-empt them as being totally incorrect. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:38, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: Before I get to the point: It's hard to determine exactly who said what when you insert your comments inside someone else's, Feldspar. Just so you're aware. Anyway, the point. On the last bit, here, I agree that they were unprofessional and rough, but I would never have come up with the idea of that being because they're civilians ratehr than actual military on my own. There was nothing at all to indicate that and I don't think there's any kind of precedent set that would let us assume that because someone is unprofessional or rough or can't hold their liquor, that they're civilians, rather than military. That seems really out of the blue to me.

:: As for the first bit, if Cmdr. Adama had planned the recon mission (and, for some reason, not used the Blackbird), He'd prolly have had Apollo and Starbuck watching some no-name Raptor team. Piloting a Raptor is not so much a formal demotion as a standing demotion, I think. Vipers are where the glory is. It's like asking a pilot who flies an F-14 every day to fly an AWACS. They're slower, they're not in the middle of the action and they have no guns. As for the CAG from ''Pegasus'', I think he's either babysitting Apollo in order to keep an eye on him, or else maybe he's normally part of a Raptor crew. We don't know how it works, exactly, but I imagine that the CAG doesn't have to fly a Viper. It's whichever pilot is most senior. However, he seems to be doing ECO duty for Apollo, which is not a pilot's job, so... go figure. Probably more will be revealed on this point in January. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:51, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:::Cleaned up my followup, I agree the way I'd put it in there was far from intuitive. My apologies to any confusion this may have caused. My intention was not to pass off any assertions I may have had as someone elses. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:58, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

Talk:Pegasus (episode)/Archive 1

2005-09-27T21:38:21Z

Feldspar: /* Analysis */

For some reason, I'm really excited about this episode. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:28, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Oh, great. Now it appears that whatever is SPAMing us with ad links got a user name: "Boomer". Although I think it might be possible for a zombie computer to do this, I'm leaning towards the idea that it's an actual person. They must be subjected to live unsedated vivisection. ---Ricimer 25 Aug 2005
: Yeah, this is a real person. But they are likely still controlling another computer to do it. There are a few ways to go about reducing this stuff, but what I really don't get is that some yahoo actually wastes their time spamming a board that has thousands--THOUSANDS--of people who read and edit it deily, eliminating their "work" in seconds. They're wasting their time more than they get on our nerves. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:02, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]], Did you move the "proposed episode" stuff to another article, or just delete it? It should definitely be somewhere here. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:25, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
*I deleted it. It's completely, and I mean ''completely'', irrelevant to this episode. It belongs on the page for the original Living Legend episodes, if at all. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

There is a picture of the [[Mercury-class]] Battlestar in the preview after [[Flight of the Phoenix]]. We need a shot of Pegasus here on the page! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
*I noticed they still don't have the trailer up on the SciFi BSG page. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
*It was put up on SciFi approximately 2-3 days before the episode. Mildly annoying. [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:27 EDT, 24 September 2005

Did you notice Pegasus advertised as the Season Finale of Galactica on SciFi channel last night? Did they split the run of 20 into two seasons? [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]
*On closer study, it said "Summer Finale." No idea what that means. [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

::How many times must we re-explain this? A normal season for a show on Scifi (Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, etc) has 20 episodes. What they do is they take the first half of these and run them during summer, then run the second half during February-May. ***They've done this for like 4-5 years now. --->What may confuse you is that their ''advertisements'' in commercials refer to it as a "summer season finale". '''That's just a marketing ploy. One Scifi Channel fans are all used to'''. Season 1 only had 13 episodes so they didn't do that then, but it's going to be in this new format forever. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005

Any guesses what the mystery Cylon ship is for? [[User:Danaucpe|Danaucpe]]

*My guess is that its a Super Basestar--a ship so massive that it can create Basestars from natural resources of rocky planets. Whatever it is, it will take the combined forces of Pegasus and Galactica to take it down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
*That is, of course, if they can get past the two [[Cylon_Basestar|Basestars]] & various support craft mentioned in [[Pegasus]]. The only reason that the Basestar went down in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Kobol's Last Gleaming]] is through sheer cunning (even part of which may be suspect, seeing as [[Valeri, Sharon|Boomer]] is a [[Humano-Cylon]]). [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:11 EDT, 24 September 2005

Any thoughts as to if the [[Blackbird]] is jump capable? [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]]
*That's a good point - it'd have to be if it was going to jump to the location of the Cylon fleet, but we know that normal Vipers aren't jump-capable, and I imagine that a ship equipped with FTL wouldn't be as stealthy or speedy as the Blackbird apparently is...[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:40, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
**I already updated "[[Blackbird]]" to say that it is presumably Jump capable, which makes sense if it's a stealth ship; if it has to be launched from a Battlestar that's not very stealthy because Battlestars are easy to see on DRADIS. It uses different engines which might be capable of limited Jumps. ---Ricimer, 24 Sept, 2005

: I think that the Blackbird may be Jump-capable, too--but until we see it, we shouldn't note it quite yet as fact. The point that Lee's Raptor was on its way to recon it suggests the Cylon fleet is aways off, and of course, if that fleet were in sublight range, we'd have a battle, so either Kara must have FTL, or has so much speed that she can approach and return on sublight within a reasonable time. Also, I strongly believe that FTL drives and sublight drives are NOT the same. Note Tigh's command in the Mini-Series to "spin up FTL drives 1 and 2." Since ''Galactica'' was already running on sublight engines at the time, the FTL drives are another mechanism and may not necessarily be within the same mechanism as the Blackbird's main sublight engines. Since we know that the Raptors DON'T use the same engines as the Blackbird, this gives more weight to the FTL drive being a separate box. Another wait-and-see point. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:04, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

*Also, seeing as we have not physically seen an [[FTL]] Drive, it's hard to say the size of the unit. It would be safe to say that it's proportional to the size of the ship, even in some cases, that multiple ones are used (as in [[Galactica]]'s case. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 13:24 EDT, 26 September 2005.

Wasn't the ''Pegasus'' contingent of Vipers going to go on the mission as well? Maybe the ''Pegasus'' was going to jump in behind the moon and launch Vipers after Apollo and Pegasus-CAG scouted out the system. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 13:39, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

*Possibly, but the episode only gave us the fact that the Raptor was doing "photo recon only". Another possibility is that the Vipers would be stationed at a staging point where the Raptor would jump ahead and back to. This would be especially useful if things got hairy. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 16:57 EDT, 26 September 2005

== Summaries vs Speculation ==

We're all anticipating these episodes, of course. It's important to note that rumors, speculation and other unaired hearsay about this episode is not fit for summary entries. The summary is the factual summation of the '''aired content'''. If the episode has yet to air, then it is best to place only the information that could be confirmed from the official Sci-Fi Channel preview (being careful not to intepret it literally since they are always out of context) or official information from [[RDM]] himself. There was an entry of Cain's demise and Adama's rank change in this episode, while we also have similar information in the later ep, [[Resurrection Ship]]. Neither can both be right, so we need to wait until we have verified information, which, if the pattern continues from other eps, only happen when the episode airs. Rumors can be placed here in Talk at any time, but you may want to state your source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:24, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

* Source of [[Spoiler]] [Cain's demise and Adama's rank change to Admiral] podcast http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/details.aspx?castid=5 (9-7-2005) Second half of podcast about (1hr 6mins) into podcast.

* Other podcasts have some interviews with Battlestar cast memebrs i.e (8-10-2005) (9-14-2005) etc

: Thanks. Who made this podcast? Normally we take just RDM's and David Eick's podcasts and videos as official, so cast member comments may or may not be accurate if RDM and Co. have to adjust schedules, episode airings and stuff. Can you elaborate? If you want to add the stuff I took off back in the meantime, please feel free--I'm not the police or anything; I just want to ensure we keep things to a credible-enough source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:35, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

==Philwelch & Ricimer==

On 20:26, 24 September 2005, Philwelch posted the following to the Analysis section:

:*''Aside from Cain herself, the crew of the ''Pegasus'' seems exclusively male. No other female crew members are ever shown, and the behavior of the drunken ''Pegasus'' crewmen isn't what we may expect from men who are accustomed to being around women. This may be a contributing factor to the behavior of the ''Pegasus'' 's crew—if they travelled through space as long as they did, believing they were the remainder of humanity, Cain's power over the crew would have been more than merely military in nature—as the only surviving human woman, Cain would hold absolute sexual power over her crew as well. In addition, the lack of women aboard the ''Pegasus'' and the resulting sexual frustration could have led to the overly regimented, authoritarian, and brutal culture the crew developed, culminating in the senseless, repeated gang rape of the Cylon prisoner [[Gina]].''
:*''It is interesting how the portrayal of Cally's killing Galactica-Boomer in "[[Resistance]]" contrasts with the portrayal of the brutalized Gina and the attempted rape of Boomer.''

On 20:53, 24 September 2005, Ricimer reverted it with the comments:

:''speculation; yes, there are female Pegasus crewmen seen in halls.'' and ''Cally's retirement f G-Boomer doesn't really contrast with the rape scenes here.''

Ricimer, I found those contributions to be interesting and valid, and would appreciate it if, in the future, you would amend them with your objections rather than deleting them outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:I've added a rebuttal of sorts to the former contribution, as I find it (to be frank) preposterous... although I am wary of seeing an [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is|encyclopedic]] page turn into a debate, it rather bothered me to see it there, so I added [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is_not|another view]]. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 18:48, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::We can always refactor the argument and clean it up. I do consider it notable that aside from the Admiral, there are no female crewmembers on Pegasus with speaking roles in this episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:50, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I picked up most of the idea from the Scifi.com forums, although it had occurred to me. If it was unintentional, then why not throw a woman in the background of the Pegasus CIC, or into the ready room? Why write the Pegasus deck gang as a group of crude gang rapists? Listen to the dialogue in that scene—that's *not* how men usually speak in mixed company, and the fact that they do speak that way in mixed company suggests they've forgotten how to act around women. I also find it amazing how many of us aren't quite as shocked at Boomer getting shot to death as we are at Boomer getting pinned down and almost raped by Lieutenant Thorne. The reason for that is probably that killing a Cylon has some sort of purpose, while raping one is just a sick and twisted way to cause pointless suffering. As for Ricimer, his edit warring and irrational vendetta against me must give some meaning to his life but I've learned to pretty much ignore him. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:Please, no ad hominem attacks either. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::Men don't act that way in mixed company? Must be I've been in college too long.. >_> ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 22:44, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:::If the other guys at your college boast about what a girl's face looks like when they gang rape her, I suggest you transfer. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:31, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::::That's not precisely what I meant... you miss my point, although I guess you do so intentionally. I was alluding to the fact that treating women as sexual objects, even in their presence, is not as unknown in our present culture as we might like to believe. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:52, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: As I read it, he got you. Or, anyway, I get you both. I think his point was not about sexual objectification, but about dehumanizing and boasting about rape. That's a bit more than just saying, "Oh. Bro. I'd tap ''that''." You know what I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:10, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

Compromise suggestions:

:The paucity of female crewmen on ''Pegasus'' is interesting, compared to the crew of ''Galactica''. Apart from Admiral Cain herself, only a few female extras can be seen in various scenes, and none have speaking roles in this episode. (The extras in Galactica's ready room, for example, are usually about 50% female; only a couple women are visible in the ready room scenes on ''Pegasus''.) This stands in notable contrast to Ron Moore's egalitarian vision of gender issues in the military, and appears to have been an intentional decision made during production.

:The ''Pegasus'' pilots don't appear to be accustomed to speaking in mixed company, either - they either ignore or fail to understand [[Cally]] and [[Selix]]'s disgust with their talk about gang-raping Gina.

No need to venture into "Mistress Cain" type "sexual domination" scenarios, in my opinion, but the lack of female presence in the lower ranks of ''Pegasus'' is a very distinct change from the rest of the series to date. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:46, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:That's not really what it says, and I think my original point stands—where there's a shortage of women, the natural power of each individual woman within that society is greater. You have to realize that if maybe 1 out of 50 people aboard Pegasus is a woman, and everybody aboard Pegasus lived the months since the holocaust believing they were all that was left of humanity, that's an incredible disparity in numbers. I don't think the sexual power of Cain or anyone else aboard ''Pegasus'' was explicit, but it's a fair guess to say it was there, under the surface. I also think it's a fair guess to say sexual frustration is a contributing factor to the sort of culture that developed aboard ''Pegasus'', particularly the gang rape of Gina. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:24, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Cain vs. Civies ==

I think that the proportion of females among the ''Pegasus'' crew is interesting and all, but I think it's much more interesting that Cain has such a dismissive attitude towards Roslin. Her Deck Chief was (he hints) forceably drafted into service after being rescued from the station just before the ''Pegasus'' lit out. This, paird with Cain's general disregard for Roslin indicate to ''me'' anyway, that she doesn't like civies hanging about. She doesn't want them looking over her shoulder, she doesn't want them asking for parts or asking for defense and the ''certainly'' doesn't want to be held accountable to them. Before she ran across our RTFF, she was Ultimate King for Life of All Humans. I think she doesn't want to give that up. On a more personal note: I hope she gets dragged before a civillian court for some reason and I hope Tom Zarek is on her jury. >;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:40, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

: Spoiler information on the mid-season opener suggests a different fate for Cain, of course. But I'm looking forward to Roslin stepping up to bat in challenging Cain just as Roslin challenged Adama. We know how THAT one went. :) Since Cain's such a person for regs, perhaps Roslin can throw a few of her own since the President ''is'' the Commander-In-Chief (even in the Colonial worlds) and should be able to give an Admiral a direct order--as well as indicating that what Cain is doing is a coup, against regs, and that ''Galactica'' is working on the President's orders. Perhaps Roslin can even order Cain relieved of command. I'm making bets that Roslin resolves this really, really fast, even so much as placing Colonial One in the line of fire to stop both. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:17, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I think the evidence from Kobol's Last Gleaming suggests that the Colonial President doesn't have those sort of broad powers over the military—Apollo is still guilty of mutiny even though he was acting to protect the President from an illegal coup, for instance. There seems to be a suggested separation of powers between the military and civilian governments. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:33, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest stars ==

I updated the guest stars from the starting credits. The four credits included Forbes, Beckel, Pyper-Ferguson and Spence. I couldn't identify the name of Spence's character, but he is the pilot who brags about having 48 kills. Hope someone has a name for him. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 08:37, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest Star Trivia ==

Trivia note: The Pegasus pilot with the scorecard was played by Sebastian Spence, who starred as Cade Foster on SciFi's First Wave (I was wondering why he looked so familiar). Interestingly, the first Marine to step off Raptor 861 happens to look just like Roger R. Cross, who played Foster's nemeses on First Wave - Joshua and (even more interestingly) ''Cain''. --[[User:Dreampilotomega|Dream Pilot Omega]] 00:03, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Gina killed 800?==
Can someone quote me where in the episode it's stated that Gina killed 800 men? I know this was widely speculated prior to the episode, but this is what I actually heard: 700 Pegasus crewmen died in the initial attack, and Gina killed 7 of Thorne's men. Where does the 800 figure come from? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:06, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

: I remember hearing what you heard, Peter. I haven't had the time to go back and check, but I was going to and then bring it up. Just thought I'd mention that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:26, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: The 800 figure came from rumors regarding the ep. I've revised the numbers to suit the information revealed in this episode. Perhaps more will be revealed in "[[Resurrection Ship]]". -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:07, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Analysis==

:*''Apollo's shift to a Raptor pilot seems to have been perceived as a demotion by Starbuck. Yet, the CAG of the ''Pegasus'' was also going on the mission in the Raptor. Is this really a demotion or merely an opportunity for [[Taylor]] to evaluate a new pilot?''
:**''As CAG, it is assumed that Taylor would be a Viper pilot. Is his inclusion in the mission as a Raptor pilot do to the fact that he can only pilot a Raptor or that he feels he can more accurately direct the movements of the Vipers under his command with the advanced sensor gear available on a Raptor?''

I think this is quite clear. Taylor has essentially ordered Apollo to chauffeur him to the Cylon fleet, a duty easily fulfilled by someone of lower rank. As for Taylor himself, it's natural that he'd want a front-row seat on the recon mission.
**I can see your point on this. However, I would state that if Taylor wanted a front row seat for the mission that he would've been just as likely to pilot a Viper. My take on it, and this is just my take, is that either way is speculative at this point. Taylor could've been trying to knock Apollo down a notch as he'd earlier in the same episode called him 'Daddy's boy.' --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:36, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:*''The behavior of the ''Pegasus'' personnel drinking on ''Galactica'' seemed unprofessional and more than a little rough. Are these actual military personnel or civilian personnel who were drafted into service after the Cylon's attack?''

They say themselves that they haven't had booze since the Cylon attack. They're probably out of practice holding their liquor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

To be totally fair, I'm not sure any of my proposed analysis points were such that they required removal. They may not be the correct interpretation of the episode but I don't recall, any correct me if I'm wrong, anything that was displayed that would pre-empt them as being totally incorrect. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:38, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

Talk:Pegasus (episode)/Archive 1

2005-09-27T21:36:02Z

Feldspar: /* Analysis */

For some reason, I'm really excited about this episode. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:28, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Oh, great. Now it appears that whatever is SPAMing us with ad links got a user name: "Boomer". Although I think it might be possible for a zombie computer to do this, I'm leaning towards the idea that it's an actual person. They must be subjected to live unsedated vivisection. ---Ricimer 25 Aug 2005
: Yeah, this is a real person. But they are likely still controlling another computer to do it. There are a few ways to go about reducing this stuff, but what I really don't get is that some yahoo actually wastes their time spamming a board that has thousands--THOUSANDS--of people who read and edit it deily, eliminating their "work" in seconds. They're wasting their time more than they get on our nerves. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:02, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]], Did you move the "proposed episode" stuff to another article, or just delete it? It should definitely be somewhere here. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:25, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
*I deleted it. It's completely, and I mean ''completely'', irrelevant to this episode. It belongs on the page for the original Living Legend episodes, if at all. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

There is a picture of the [[Mercury-class]] Battlestar in the preview after [[Flight of the Phoenix]]. We need a shot of Pegasus here on the page! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
*I noticed they still don't have the trailer up on the SciFi BSG page. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
*It was put up on SciFi approximately 2-3 days before the episode. Mildly annoying. [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:27 EDT, 24 September 2005

Did you notice Pegasus advertised as the Season Finale of Galactica on SciFi channel last night? Did they split the run of 20 into two seasons? [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]
*On closer study, it said "Summer Finale." No idea what that means. [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

::How many times must we re-explain this? A normal season for a show on Scifi (Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, etc) has 20 episodes. What they do is they take the first half of these and run them during summer, then run the second half during February-May. ***They've done this for like 4-5 years now. --->What may confuse you is that their ''advertisements'' in commercials refer to it as a "summer season finale". '''That's just a marketing ploy. One Scifi Channel fans are all used to'''. Season 1 only had 13 episodes so they didn't do that then, but it's going to be in this new format forever. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005

Any guesses what the mystery Cylon ship is for? [[User:Danaucpe|Danaucpe]]

*My guess is that its a Super Basestar--a ship so massive that it can create Basestars from natural resources of rocky planets. Whatever it is, it will take the combined forces of Pegasus and Galactica to take it down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
*That is, of course, if they can get past the two [[Cylon_Basestar|Basestars]] & various support craft mentioned in [[Pegasus]]. The only reason that the Basestar went down in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Kobol's Last Gleaming]] is through sheer cunning (even part of which may be suspect, seeing as [[Valeri, Sharon|Boomer]] is a [[Humano-Cylon]]). [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:11 EDT, 24 September 2005

Any thoughts as to if the [[Blackbird]] is jump capable? [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]]
*That's a good point - it'd have to be if it was going to jump to the location of the Cylon fleet, but we know that normal Vipers aren't jump-capable, and I imagine that a ship equipped with FTL wouldn't be as stealthy or speedy as the Blackbird apparently is...[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:40, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
**I already updated "[[Blackbird]]" to say that it is presumably Jump capable, which makes sense if it's a stealth ship; if it has to be launched from a Battlestar that's not very stealthy because Battlestars are easy to see on DRADIS. It uses different engines which might be capable of limited Jumps. ---Ricimer, 24 Sept, 2005

: I think that the Blackbird may be Jump-capable, too--but until we see it, we shouldn't note it quite yet as fact. The point that Lee's Raptor was on its way to recon it suggests the Cylon fleet is aways off, and of course, if that fleet were in sublight range, we'd have a battle, so either Kara must have FTL, or has so much speed that she can approach and return on sublight within a reasonable time. Also, I strongly believe that FTL drives and sublight drives are NOT the same. Note Tigh's command in the Mini-Series to "spin up FTL drives 1 and 2." Since ''Galactica'' was already running on sublight engines at the time, the FTL drives are another mechanism and may not necessarily be within the same mechanism as the Blackbird's main sublight engines. Since we know that the Raptors DON'T use the same engines as the Blackbird, this gives more weight to the FTL drive being a separate box. Another wait-and-see point. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:04, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

*Also, seeing as we have not physically seen an [[FTL]] Drive, it's hard to say the size of the unit. It would be safe to say that it's proportional to the size of the ship, even in some cases, that multiple ones are used (as in [[Galactica]]'s case. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 13:24 EDT, 26 September 2005.

Wasn't the ''Pegasus'' contingent of Vipers going to go on the mission as well? Maybe the ''Pegasus'' was going to jump in behind the moon and launch Vipers after Apollo and Pegasus-CAG scouted out the system. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 13:39, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

*Possibly, but the episode only gave us the fact that the Raptor was doing "photo recon only". Another possibility is that the Vipers would be stationed at a staging point where the Raptor would jump ahead and back to. This would be especially useful if things got hairy. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 16:57 EDT, 26 September 2005

== Summaries vs Speculation ==

We're all anticipating these episodes, of course. It's important to note that rumors, speculation and other unaired hearsay about this episode is not fit for summary entries. The summary is the factual summation of the '''aired content'''. If the episode has yet to air, then it is best to place only the information that could be confirmed from the official Sci-Fi Channel preview (being careful not to intepret it literally since they are always out of context) or official information from [[RDM]] himself. There was an entry of Cain's demise and Adama's rank change in this episode, while we also have similar information in the later ep, [[Resurrection Ship]]. Neither can both be right, so we need to wait until we have verified information, which, if the pattern continues from other eps, only happen when the episode airs. Rumors can be placed here in Talk at any time, but you may want to state your source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:24, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

* Source of [[Spoiler]] [Cain's demise and Adama's rank change to Admiral] podcast http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/details.aspx?castid=5 (9-7-2005) Second half of podcast about (1hr 6mins) into podcast.

* Other podcasts have some interviews with Battlestar cast memebrs i.e (8-10-2005) (9-14-2005) etc

: Thanks. Who made this podcast? Normally we take just RDM's and David Eick's podcasts and videos as official, so cast member comments may or may not be accurate if RDM and Co. have to adjust schedules, episode airings and stuff. Can you elaborate? If you want to add the stuff I took off back in the meantime, please feel free--I'm not the police or anything; I just want to ensure we keep things to a credible-enough source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:35, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

==Philwelch & Ricimer==

On 20:26, 24 September 2005, Philwelch posted the following to the Analysis section:

:*''Aside from Cain herself, the crew of the ''Pegasus'' seems exclusively male. No other female crew members are ever shown, and the behavior of the drunken ''Pegasus'' crewmen isn't what we may expect from men who are accustomed to being around women. This may be a contributing factor to the behavior of the ''Pegasus'' 's crew—if they travelled through space as long as they did, believing they were the remainder of humanity, Cain's power over the crew would have been more than merely military in nature—as the only surviving human woman, Cain would hold absolute sexual power over her crew as well. In addition, the lack of women aboard the ''Pegasus'' and the resulting sexual frustration could have led to the overly regimented, authoritarian, and brutal culture the crew developed, culminating in the senseless, repeated gang rape of the Cylon prisoner [[Gina]].''
:*''It is interesting how the portrayal of Cally's killing Galactica-Boomer in "[[Resistance]]" contrasts with the portrayal of the brutalized Gina and the attempted rape of Boomer.''

On 20:53, 24 September 2005, Ricimer reverted it with the comments:

:''speculation; yes, there are female Pegasus crewmen seen in halls.'' and ''Cally's retirement f G-Boomer doesn't really contrast with the rape scenes here.''

Ricimer, I found those contributions to be interesting and valid, and would appreciate it if, in the future, you would amend them with your objections rather than deleting them outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:I've added a rebuttal of sorts to the former contribution, as I find it (to be frank) preposterous... although I am wary of seeing an [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is|encyclopedic]] page turn into a debate, it rather bothered me to see it there, so I added [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is_not|another view]]. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 18:48, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::We can always refactor the argument and clean it up. I do consider it notable that aside from the Admiral, there are no female crewmembers on Pegasus with speaking roles in this episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:50, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I picked up most of the idea from the Scifi.com forums, although it had occurred to me. If it was unintentional, then why not throw a woman in the background of the Pegasus CIC, or into the ready room? Why write the Pegasus deck gang as a group of crude gang rapists? Listen to the dialogue in that scene—that's *not* how men usually speak in mixed company, and the fact that they do speak that way in mixed company suggests they've forgotten how to act around women. I also find it amazing how many of us aren't quite as shocked at Boomer getting shot to death as we are at Boomer getting pinned down and almost raped by Lieutenant Thorne. The reason for that is probably that killing a Cylon has some sort of purpose, while raping one is just a sick and twisted way to cause pointless suffering. As for Ricimer, his edit warring and irrational vendetta against me must give some meaning to his life but I've learned to pretty much ignore him. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:Please, no ad hominem attacks either. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::Men don't act that way in mixed company? Must be I've been in college too long.. >_> ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 22:44, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:::If the other guys at your college boast about what a girl's face looks like when they gang rape her, I suggest you transfer. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:31, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::::That's not precisely what I meant... you miss my point, although I guess you do so intentionally. I was alluding to the fact that treating women as sexual objects, even in their presence, is not as unknown in our present culture as we might like to believe. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:52, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: As I read it, he got you. Or, anyway, I get you both. I think his point was not about sexual objectification, but about dehumanizing and boasting about rape. That's a bit more than just saying, "Oh. Bro. I'd tap ''that''." You know what I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:10, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

Compromise suggestions:

:The paucity of female crewmen on ''Pegasus'' is interesting, compared to the crew of ''Galactica''. Apart from Admiral Cain herself, only a few female extras can be seen in various scenes, and none have speaking roles in this episode. (The extras in Galactica's ready room, for example, are usually about 50% female; only a couple women are visible in the ready room scenes on ''Pegasus''.) This stands in notable contrast to Ron Moore's egalitarian vision of gender issues in the military, and appears to have been an intentional decision made during production.

:The ''Pegasus'' pilots don't appear to be accustomed to speaking in mixed company, either - they either ignore or fail to understand [[Cally]] and [[Selix]]'s disgust with their talk about gang-raping Gina.

No need to venture into "Mistress Cain" type "sexual domination" scenarios, in my opinion, but the lack of female presence in the lower ranks of ''Pegasus'' is a very distinct change from the rest of the series to date. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:46, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:That's not really what it says, and I think my original point stands—where there's a shortage of women, the natural power of each individual woman within that society is greater. You have to realize that if maybe 1 out of 50 people aboard Pegasus is a woman, and everybody aboard Pegasus lived the months since the holocaust believing they were all that was left of humanity, that's an incredible disparity in numbers. I don't think the sexual power of Cain or anyone else aboard ''Pegasus'' was explicit, but it's a fair guess to say it was there, under the surface. I also think it's a fair guess to say sexual frustration is a contributing factor to the sort of culture that developed aboard ''Pegasus'', particularly the gang rape of Gina. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:24, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Cain vs. Civies ==

I think that the proportion of females among the ''Pegasus'' crew is interesting and all, but I think it's much more interesting that Cain has such a dismissive attitude towards Roslin. Her Deck Chief was (he hints) forceably drafted into service after being rescued from the station just before the ''Pegasus'' lit out. This, paird with Cain's general disregard for Roslin indicate to ''me'' anyway, that she doesn't like civies hanging about. She doesn't want them looking over her shoulder, she doesn't want them asking for parts or asking for defense and the ''certainly'' doesn't want to be held accountable to them. Before she ran across our RTFF, she was Ultimate King for Life of All Humans. I think she doesn't want to give that up. On a more personal note: I hope she gets dragged before a civillian court for some reason and I hope Tom Zarek is on her jury. >;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:40, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

: Spoiler information on the mid-season opener suggests a different fate for Cain, of course. But I'm looking forward to Roslin stepping up to bat in challenging Cain just as Roslin challenged Adama. We know how THAT one went. :) Since Cain's such a person for regs, perhaps Roslin can throw a few of her own since the President ''is'' the Commander-In-Chief (even in the Colonial worlds) and should be able to give an Admiral a direct order--as well as indicating that what Cain is doing is a coup, against regs, and that ''Galactica'' is working on the President's orders. Perhaps Roslin can even order Cain relieved of command. I'm making bets that Roslin resolves this really, really fast, even so much as placing Colonial One in the line of fire to stop both. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:17, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I think the evidence from Kobol's Last Gleaming suggests that the Colonial President doesn't have those sort of broad powers over the military—Apollo is still guilty of mutiny even though he was acting to protect the President from an illegal coup, for instance. There seems to be a suggested separation of powers between the military and civilian governments. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:33, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest stars ==

I updated the guest stars from the starting credits. The four credits included Forbes, Beckel, Pyper-Ferguson and Spence. I couldn't identify the name of Spence's character, but he is the pilot who brags about having 48 kills. Hope someone has a name for him. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 08:37, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest Star Trivia ==

Trivia note: The Pegasus pilot with the scorecard was played by Sebastian Spence, who starred as Cade Foster on SciFi's First Wave (I was wondering why he looked so familiar). Interestingly, the first Marine to step off Raptor 861 happens to look just like Roger R. Cross, who played Foster's nemeses on First Wave - Joshua and (even more interestingly) ''Cain''. --[[User:Dreampilotomega|Dream Pilot Omega]] 00:03, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Gina killed 800?==
Can someone quote me where in the episode it's stated that Gina killed 800 men? I know this was widely speculated prior to the episode, but this is what I actually heard: 700 Pegasus crewmen died in the initial attack, and Gina killed 7 of Thorne's men. Where does the 800 figure come from? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:06, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

: I remember hearing what you heard, Peter. I haven't had the time to go back and check, but I was going to and then bring it up. Just thought I'd mention that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:26, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: The 800 figure came from rumors regarding the ep. I've revised the numbers to suit the information revealed in this episode. Perhaps more will be revealed in "[[Resurrection Ship]]". -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:07, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Analysis==

:*''Apollo's shift to a Raptor pilot seems to have been perceived as a demotion by Starbuck. Yet, the CAG of the ''Pegasus'' was also going on the mission in the Raptor. Is this really a demotion or merely an opportunity for [[Taylor]] to evaluate a new pilot?''
:**''As CAG, it is assumed that Taylor would be a Viper pilot. Is his inclusion in the mission as a Raptor pilot do to the fact that he can only pilot a Raptor or that he feels he can more accurately direct the movements of the Vipers under his command with the advanced sensor gear available on a Raptor?''

I think this is quite clear. Taylor has essentially ordered Apollo to chauffeur him to the Cylon fleet, a duty easily fulfilled by someone of lower rank. As for Taylor himself, it's natural that he'd want a front-row seat on the recon mission.
**I can see your point on this. However, I would state that if Taylor wanted a front row seat for the mission that he would've been just as likely to pilot a Viper. My take on it, and this is just my take, is that either way is speculative at this point. Taylor could've been trying to knock Apollo down a notch as he'd earlier in the same episode called him 'Daddy's boy.' --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:36, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:*''The behavior of the ''Pegasus'' personnel drinking on ''Galactica'' seemed unprofessional and more than a little rough. Are these actual military personnel or civilian personnel who were drafted into service after the Cylon's attack?''

They say themselves that they haven't had booze since the Cylon attack. They're probably out of practice holding their liquor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

Olympic Carrier

2005-09-27T20:45:40Z

Feldspar:

[[Image:Olympic_carrier_001.jpg|thumb|The ''Olympic Carrier'' flanked by Vipers following its dubious return. (Credit: Sky One)]]
The '''''Olympic Carrier''''' was an [[FTL]]-capable passenger liner destroyed by Colonial forces after it had apparently come under Cylon control.

The ''Olympic Carrier'', sometimes referred to as simply the ''Carrier'', was officially designated an "intersun passenger cruiser". With a length of 825 feet, it comfortably accomodated 1,000 passengers in posh and luxury on journeys between the [[Twelve Colonies]]. A commercial ship, it had neither weapons systems nor defence capabilities. It joined the rag-tag fleet carrying 1,345 survivors of the [[Cylon attack]].

The ''Carrier'' was able to successfully execute the first 237 FTL jumps after the Cylon attack; however, prior to the 238th jump, a message was sent from it to President [[Laura Roslin]] aboard ''[[Colonial One]]''. The message purportedly came from a Dr. [[Amorak]], formerly of the Colonial Ministry of Defence and colleague of [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], with information regarding "a traitor in their midst". Soon thereafter, though, the ''Carrier'' went missing after failing to execute jump 238, apparently disabled by Cylon agents.

Three hours later, the ''Olympic Carrier'' suddenly materialized at the jump 238 coordinates, raising the suspicions of Roslin and Commander [[Adama]]. When asked how they avoided Cylon attack, the crew claimed ignorance, saying that someone must have been looking after them; they had used the intervening three hours to fix their malfunctioning FTL drive. Baltar, fearing exposure, urged Roslin to cut off communication with the ship. When radiological alarms sounded, indicating the presence of a nuclear device, Commander Adama and President Roslin came to a consensus that the ship needed to be destroyed. Captain [[Lee Adama]] and Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] reluctantly carried out the order and destroyed the vessel before the nuke could detonate; it is unknown whether the Cylons offloaded those aboard the liner or left them aboard (and out of sight) to die. ("[[33]]")

President Rolsin later wrote the ship's name down on a piece of paper and left it in her desk aboard ''[[Colonial One]]'' as a reminder of her role in the tragedy. She had once seen President [[Adar (RDM)|Adar]] do something similar when he also gave an order which resulted in the loss of innocent life through military action. ([[Water]])

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Pegasus (episode)

2005-09-27T20:04:12Z

Feldspar: /* Analysis */

: ''For information related the [[battlestar]] ''Pegasus'' itself, see ''[[Pegasus]]''.''

== Overview ==
: ''Tensions run high when the ''Pegasus'', a battlestar more advanced than the ''[[Galactica]]'', is found -- only to have Admiral [[Nelena Cain]] usurp command of the fleet and foist her demands on those under her new command.''

== Summary ==
*''Pegasus'', a [[Mercury-class]] [[battlestar]], has joined the fleet. She survived the attack by [[blind-jump]]ing as the [[Cylon]]s attacked the [[Scorpion Ship Yards]].
* A Cylon fleet, comprised of two [[basestar]]s, about a dozen support ships and a large mothership of unknown purpose have been trailing the fleet -- and detected by Cain and ''Pegasus''.
**''Pegasus'' discovered this Cylon Fleet and have been carrying out hit-and-run attacks against the Cylons. At first the Cylon Fleet's course seemed to be random, until Cain realized they were going to systems with natural resources. Cain then tried to predict which system the Cylons were going to Jump to, and stumbled upon ''Galactica''; after looking over ''Galactica's'' logs, Cain surmizes that the Cylon fleet was following ''Galactica'' (which itself was Jumping to systems with natural resources for the civilian fleet, ("[[Water]]", ("[[The Hand of God]]"), etc).
* Upon assuming command of the fleet, Cain begins moving crew members around, citing discipline concerns, transferring [[Lee Adama]] and [[Kara Thrace]] to ''Pegasus''.
* President [[Laura Roslin]] has concerns why Cain ignores her requests to talk, but more importantly, why ''Pegasus'' is only resupplying ''Galactica's'' military stores and ignoring the civilian fleet's needs.
* Tyrol welcomes his civilian counterpart from ''Pegasus''. [[Laird]] is an aeronautical engineer-turned Deck Chief that designed the old engines in the [[Blackbird]], and who's both appalled and impressed by Tyrol's new stealth fighter.
* Lee is essentially busted down to [[Raptor]] pilot in a recon mission to the Cylon fleet. But he shows his defiant side by asking Kara to commandeer the Blackbird to take some better recon photos of the fleet without being noticed by Colonial ''or'' Cylon forces.
* [[Helo]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] discover that [[Gina]], the Cylon prisoner aboard the ''Pegasus'', was raped by the crew as a form of torture. They rush to ''Galactica'''s brig, where a ''Pegasus'' lieutenant, [[Thorne]], is about to rape Sharon. Tyrol throws Thorne against a bulkhead, unintentionally killing him. The pair are arrested for courts-martial.
*Commander Adama is angered to hear that Admiral Cain is going to hold the court-martial on ''Pegasus'', not ''Galactica'' where the offense occurred. Cain assures Adama that they will be given a fair trial.
*Admiral Cain, however, does not give the pair a court martial hearing or trial by jury, instead rapidly deciding the verdict by herself and ordering Helo and Tyrol to be executed.
*Upon discovering what Admiral Cain has done, Commander Adama orders a Raptor to fly out with an armed Marine boarding party and launches ''Galactica's'' Vipers against ''Pegasus'', demanding that Admiral Cain release [[Helo]] and [[Galen Tyrol]].
*Admiral Cain refuses to return the prisoners, and balks at the thought of an "independent tribunal" to settle the dispute. Using Adama's logs against him once more, she notes that the [[Litmus|last time Galactica held one]], Commander Adama dissolved the tribunal when he "didn't like the verdict." Adama refuses to back down and insists that he will get his men back.
*Admiral Cain launches ''Pegasus''' Vipers against the incoming Vipers from ''Galactica''. They close in on each other as the episode ends.

== Questions ==

*Will Starbuck and her [[Blackbird]] stealth fighter play a role in the armed standoff between ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica''?
**Although we won't know until [[Resurrection Ship|next episode]], that seems initially unlikely, as the Blackbird is being used for the Recon mission against the Cylon "Unknown". The episode seemed to suggest that both were occurring at the same time.
*Where did the ''Pegasus'' crew get fresh fruit?
**Dualla explains in "[[Final Cut]]" that their ships have very effective refrigeration units to keep food fresh for long duration duty tours, etc.
*In the absence of Apollo and Starbuck, who is leading Galactica's fighters against Pegasus? [[George Birch]]? [[Symes]]?
*As for the unknown ship in the Cylon fleet, what ''is'' its function? Is it, as Adama speculates, a Raider factory? Or a Command-and-Control vessel? Could it be a Humano-Cylon creation facility? The next episodes' title, "Resurrection Ship," could foreshadow that possibility, as when Humano-Cylons "die" they're downloaded into new bodies. Where would these new bodies be stockpiled?
**Could the title "Resurrection Ship" refer to ''Pegasus'', as it was presumed to be dead but "came back"?
*Could the new "Cylon mothership" be a command ship that contains the Re-Imagined Series' equivalent of the [[Imperious Leader]]?
*Roslin is commander-in-chief of the Colonial fleet. Could she be the one to order Cain to stand down by citing regulations to Roslin's benefit in the same way that Cain has done against Adama? Roslin could also order another member of ''Pegasus'' to assume command to enforce this. At the same time, Roslin's never been the type to use force, and may use other means to keep this event from turning into a bloodbath.
*Does the Blackbird have FTL? It's a bit smaller than the Raptor and, if it's based on the Viper design, wouldn't have one. At the same time, how is Starbuck supposed to go on the recon mission without one?
**Based on the information provided for the [[Raptor]] and [[Viper]], both ships are similar in size. A possibility could be in the amount of energy generated by both fighters. Seeing as the Raptor is equipped with more surveillance & communication equipment, it may have additional generators to power a [[FTL]] Drive. Refer to talk page for additional discussion regarding Blackbird FTL capability.
** Are the Vipers going on the recon mission? If not, why is it a blow to Apollo's honor for him to be piloting a Raptor? And how are the Vipers supposed to get there if they have to jump to the moon?

== Analysis ==
*[[Cally]]'s charged reaction to the drunken Pegasus crewmen ''bragging'' about raping Number Six/Gina repeatedly is probably due to herself being the survivor of an attempted rape, in "[[Bastille Day]]".
*Talking amongst themselves on Cylon-occupied Caprica, the Cylons mentioned in passing that there was a main Cylon fleet in "[[Final Cut]]".
*In the miniseries, Adama first proposes that the ''Galactica'' will go about independent of the rest of the fleet and fight the Cylons. Roslin persuades him to instead protect and lead the fleet on their escape from the colonies. The ''Pegasus'', in contrast, ''did'' travel about independently attacking the Cylons. The condition of the ''Pegasus'''s crew may be an indication of what would have happened to the ''Galactica'' if she stood and fought.
*In contrast to ''Galactica'''s nearly evenly gender-divided crew, the crew of the ''Pegasus'' seems predominantly male to a very high degree. Admiral Cain was the only female aboard ''Pegasus'' with a speaking role, with only a couple other females visible in the hallways or in the ''Pegasus'' ready room. This stands in notable contrast to Ron Moore's egalitarian vision of gender issues in the military, and appears to have been an intentional decision made during production. In addition, the dialogue of the drunken ''Pegasus'' crewmen suggests they've perhaps forgotten how to act around women— they either ignore or fail to understand Cally and Selix's disgust with their talk about gang-raping Gina. This may be a contributing factor to the behavior of the ''Pegasus'' crew—the relative paucity of women aboard the ''Pegasus'' and the resulting sexual frustration could have led to the overly regimented, authoritarian, and brutal culture the crew developed, culminating in the senseless, repeated gang rape of the Cylon prisoner [[Gina]].
*Cally's disgust with the ''Pegasus'' crew's gang-rape of Gina is interesting in light of the fact that she had no compunctions about killing the ''Galactica'' copy of Boomer herself. Evidently she now acknowledges the Cylons' humanity in at least some measure. Perhaps she's felt a connection between this and her own assault on board ''[[Astral Queen]]'' by [[Mason]] in "[[Bastille Day]]".
**It's also possible that, since her fellow female deck crew also look disgusted and follow her out, women just don't appreciate talk about rape in general. RDM says something to this effect in the podcast.
*It is also interesting on a dramatic level how the portrayal of Cally's killing Galactica-Boomer in "[[Resistance]]" contrasts with the portrayal of the brutalized Gina and the attempted rape of Boomer. It was less shocking to many to watch Boomer being shot to death than it was to watch Boomer being pinned down over her bunk and almost raped—possibly because, while killing Boomer is an understandable act of revenge, raping her would be a senseless act of cruelty.
*[[Laird]], ''Pegasus' '' deck chief, refers to events since "the war happened". Admiral Cain and her ''Pegasus'' crew seem to still consider fighting against the Cylons to be a war, while in the [[Mini-series]] Commander Adama admitted that "the war is over, we lost".
**Laird is still on the ''Galactica'' during the period immediately leading up to the assault on Caprica-Valerii. As the deck chief of the ''Pegasus'' wouldn't his presence be required on his own ship or has he, like Apollo and Starbuck, been reassigned?
*Apollo's shift to a Raptor pilot seems to have been perceived as a demotion by Starbuck. Yet, the CAG of the ''Pegasus'' was also going on the mission in the Raptor. Is this really a demotion or merely an opportunity for [[Taylor]] to evaluate a new pilot?
**As CAG, it is assumed that Taylor would be a Viper pilot. Is his inclusion in the mission as a Raptor pilot do to the fact that he can only pilot a Raptor or that he feels he can more accurately direct the movements of the Vipers under his command with the advanced sensor gear available on a Raptor?
*The behavior of the ''Pegasus'' personnel drinking on ''Galactica'' seemed unprofessional and more than a little rough. Are these actual military personnel or civilian personnel who were drafted into service after the Cylon's attack?

== Notes ==

*Population count is 49,605, a dramatic increase of 1,752 since the 47,853 count in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", undoubtedly to account for the addition of Battlestar ''[[Pegasus]]'' and her crew to the Colonial fleet.
**Cain notes that Pegasus lost 700 crew in the opening attack. Lieutenant [[Thorne]] also tells [[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] that Gina killed 7 of his men. Also, Colonel [[Jack Fisk]] tells Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] that Cain executed the previous XO for failure to attack a Cylon staging area. Thus we may speculate that at the time of the attack her crew totalled to 2,460, give or take a few.
***This number does not take into account any casualties that may have occured because of the attack on the Cylon staging area, or any subsequent encounters with the Cylons.
***Given the relative ease that Cain had with removing disloyal officers -- according to Colonel Fisk, her XO had served with her for many years prior to his execution by Cain -- there may be additional officers she had swiftly court martialed (ref: Tyrol and Agathon) and executed as well. Given Cain's meglomaniac streak, it is also possible that some of the civilians she'd rescued from the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards may have met unfortunate "mishaps" as well.
**This is substantially smaller than [[Galactica]]'s crew, possibly explained by many of Cain's crew being on leave at the time of the attack. Galactica, although soon to be decomissioned, was still fully operational. Also, Pegasus's systems are newer, and may be more automated.
**Also, as [[Laird]] indicates, many civilians were pressed into service. So the actual number of actual pre-Holocaust ''Pegasus'' crew members may be far less than indicated above.
* As the episode ends, it's interesting to see that the bulk of [[Galactica]]'s Viper fleet consist of the Mark II's, while [[Pegasus]] had the Mark VII's. A classic picture of "old vs. new".
**While ''Pegasus'' seems to have entirely Viper Mk. VII's, they would presumably have had to removed most of the automated systems from them (to prevent Cylon virus infiltration). Doing this makes them more difficult to fly (''Galactica's'' few Mk. VII's are only used by the most capable pilots now). ''Pegasus' '' pilots might have more advanced fighers but they aren't as reliable now as the tried-and-true Mk. II's.
* [[Nelena Cain]] is the female version of [[Cain (TOS)|Cain]], who was portrayed by the late [[Lloyd Bridges]] in the original ''[[Battlestar Galactica (1978)|Battlestar Galactica]]''.
* This episode is inspired by the two part episode, "[[The Living Legend, Part I (TOS)|The Living Legend]]".
* "Pegasus" apparently starts a multi-episode arc. The cliffhanger ending marks the mid-season finale. Season 2 will continue in January 2006 with [[Resurrection Ship]].
* [[Ronald D. Moore]] also wrote another episode called [[wikipedia:The Pegasus (TNG episode)|The Pegasus]], in the seventh season of ''Star Trek: The Next Generation''.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*'''Baltar''' (to Gina): The food is yours. It's not a trick. I'm not going to take it away at the last second. You know, I...um...I'm just going to talk right now. I don't expect you to say anything. Back on Caprica, before the attack—and sometimes I forget there a world before the attack—I knew someone…a woman, unlike any other woman I'd ever known. She was unique. Beautiful, clever, intensely sensual. When she wasn't in my bed, she was in my thoughts. She was a Cylon. And she changed my life in a very real, very fundamental way in that I have quite literally never stopped thinking about her, because I love her. To this very day, I love her. And she looks exactly like you. My name is Gaius Baltar, and I'm here to help you.

* ''Cain and Adama are discussing Helo and Tyrol's court-martial over wireles''
:'''Adama''': You told me they'd get a fair trial. What kind of trial could they have possibly had?
:'''Cain''': I assure you I heard them out. I weighed their statements against those of the guards and I took into consideration their service records and commendations. It was a difficult decision, Commander, but I dare say it was a fair one.
:'''Adama''': They deserve to have their case heard by a jury.
:'''Cain''': I am a flag officer on detached service during a time of war. Regulations give me broad authority in this matter
:'''Adama''' (to Tigh): Launch the fighters. (to Cain) You can quote me whatever regulation you'd like. I'm not going to let you execute my men.
:'''Cain''': I highly suggest you reconsider that statement, Commander.
:'''Fisk''': Admiral, ''Galactica'' is launching Vipers and a Raptor.
:'''Cain''': Commander, why are you launching Vipers?
:'''Adama''': Please arrange for Chief Tyrol and Lieutenant Agathon to be handed over to my marines as soon as they arrive.
:'''Cain''': I don't take orders from you!
:'''Adama''': Call it whatever you like. I'm getting my men.
:'''Cain''': You are making such a mistake.
:'''Adama''': I'm getting my men.

== Official Statements ==
*Ron D. Moore stated in his podcast that there were a number of scenes filmed for this episode that had to be deleted for time, but that he expects to be edited back into the episode for the DVD release. According to Moore, although most episode rough cuts run a little overtime and one or two scenes have to be edited out, "Pegasus" had more than a full extra Act worth of material left over. The full episode would have been an hour and 15 minutes long. Moore tried to put in more scened to push it to 90 minutes, in which case Scifi Channel would aire it as a 90 minutes special (as they had done in the past for "Stargate Sg-1" on occasion), but ultimately not enough material could be included in "Pegasus" to make it 90 minutes long without detracting from story quality; they were left with an episode that was too short to be a 90 minute special, but also too long to include all filmed scenes in a one hour episode. Deleted scenes, which Moore says will be resorted in the DVD release, include:
**A scene when Adama, Tigh, and Roslin are heading to the flight deck to meet Admiral Cain when she first arrives on the ship, and while they're walking Adama and Tigh give Roslin a brief biography of Cain; who she is, that she was an up and coming officer promoted to Admiral over several other possible choices, etc.
**An extension to Admiral Cain's meeting with Adama and Roslin in Adama's quarters, in which she explains that ''Pegasus'' survived Cylon computer virus infiltration through the [[Command Navigation Program]] because ''Pegasus'' was being overhauled at the shipyards, and most of her computers were disconnected.
**An extension to the scene in Cain's quarters on ''Pegasus'' where Adama and Cain discuss how Pegasus is a [[Mercury-class]] battlestar, and the differences between this newer model and ''Galactica''. Cain also explains that she intentionally doesn't have any chairs there so her meetings with her staff will run faster.
**A scene where Admiral Cain asks about ''Galactica's'' Cylon-prisoner, Caprica-Sharon, and goes to the brig to observe her.
**An entire subplot alluded to in the episode when Roslin complains to Adama that ''Pegasus'' is focusing on re-supplying the Fleet's military assets (re-arming ''Galactica'' and re-supplying ''Pegasus'' from stores in the civillilan fleet) while ignoring the needs of the civillian fleet. The subplot show how Roslin wanted ''Pegasus'' to provide machine parts for repairs to the civillian Fleet, and that after these are repeatedly ignored the civillian fleet ultimately goees "on strike" by refusing to give ''Pegasus'' more [[tylium]] fuel. It would also expand on Cain's refusal to acknowledge Roslin as the President (and therefore her superior as Commander-in-Chief).
*Moore also stated in the podcast that an alternate version of the attempted rape scene with Boomer was also filmed in which the rape was actually underway when Tyrol and Helo intervened. Ultimately, the decision was made to use the version seen where Thorne is stopped just in time, before he is able to rape Boomer.

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===

* Michelle Forbes as Admiral [[Nelena Cain]]
* Graham Beckel as Colonel [[Jack Fisk]]
* John Pyper-Ferguson as Captain [[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]]
* Sebastian Spence as Pegasus pilot
* Fulvio Cecere as Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]]
* Vincent Gale as Chief Petty Officer [[Peter Laird]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Leah+Cairns Leah Cairns] as [[Racetrack]]

=== Writing & Direction ===

*Written by [[Anne Cofell Saunders]]
*Directed by [[Michael Rymer]]

=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005/2006)
*Production Number: 2.10
*Airdate Order: 10 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate:
*US Airdate: September 23rd, 2005
*DVD Release:

{{Episode List}}
[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)]]

User talk:Spencerian

2005-09-21T23:06:52Z

Feldspar: /* Mercury-Class Battlestar */

Transferred my basic bio from Wikipedia to here. To all of us BSG addicts: Praise the Lords of Kobol and pass the munitions... [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:52, 14 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Annililated three major stub pages today. Guess I'm all hyped up for Season 2's premiere today. Stop me before I de-stub again... [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:51, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

: [[Wikipedia:Destroy All Humans|Destroy All Humans]]!... erm, I mean stubs. :-) Yes, please keep on nuking all the stubs. Thanks! :-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:51, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

== Remember, Folks, This is Not Wikipedia ==

This is just my understanding, but BSG Wiki is not Wikipedia. As such, as we enter factual information about the episode, we also may add opinion, some commentary, and speculation as appropriate. This is definiitely different from Wikipedia where such Personal Point of View comments are not acceptable. One thing that we must remember not to do is to get all bent out of shape and delete an opposing view simply because we have a different interpretation of events. One suggestion is to add a counterpoint with sufficient reasons or evidence that support your view. This is fiction, and I doubt that RDM will explain everything (where's the fun if he did that?), so we're left to figure things out on our own. So, don't hack and slash, but if you find my posts (or others) are just too wordy or prose-ridden, do what you feel is right, of course... [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:45, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== Episode Project Page? ==

Heya. I heard you were particularly active in writing the episode articles. If so, you might consider collaborating with some other users that are, too, to create a project page for episodes. [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] created a [[Battlestar Wiki:Characters|Characters Project Page]] for better planning and communication. I can't speak from experience, but it might be good to make note of various conventions or templates or whatever used for episode articles. If you decide to put this together, I made a [[:Category:Project Page|Project Page]] category so we could keep track of the various convention & template pages. I don't mean to tell anyone what to do. Just thought I'd draw your attention to this. --[[User:Day|Day]] 07:18, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
:Hi, Day. Thanks for letting me know of this tool. I'm more of a major article content writer than article creator, so I've usually not done much in page formatting and creation. I've generally followed the lead of Peter and others who obviously have stronger wiki formatting skills, then apply or update any new material on pages that use their templates. Collectively the wiki has improved on formatting and templates, but yes, many early character bios must be cleaned up, and I'll get to Peter's character project page and your general project page to lend a hand. Same for the episode pages as applicable, although most of the second season pages appear to be in fair shape. Excellent idea. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:03, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

== Ellen Tigh ==

I have a question for you concerning your recent edit to [[Ellen Tigh]] at the bottom of [[Battlestar_Wiki_talk:Standards_and_Conventions]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:33, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

== Mercury-Class Battlestar ==

Since we have gone back and forth once, I wanted to talk to you about it here. Stating that a battlestar is a Mercury-Class Battlestar, even if it happens to be pegasus, is not a spoiler. It is unnecessary to be in spoiler tags. We don't state anything else about it.

:Okay, but would that be of plausible interest to anyone who explicitly did ''not'' want to have that episode spoiled? It's not as if the Mercury class has ever been mentioned before. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

::I understand what you're saying about not spoiling it for someone who has no interest in knowing, however this isn't stating any IMPORTANT information that would lead you to explicitly know anything. People who are newbs to BSG wouldn't know if the Pegasus ship has been featured before, if it was going to return, or how many episodes away its return is. And BSG veterans may know about Pegasus, but wouldn't explicitly know when or if the Pegasus were going to return. Therefore, I submit this is not a spoiler. However, this is specific case is not a major concern for me, the episode is two days away anyways, but rather the principle of the issue at hand because it might arise again and I'd like a consensus on the issue. I believe that small splices of info that couldn't explicitly give away plot twists are not spoilers and therefore in the interest of not needlessly continually reediting pages that should not have been editted to begin with we should treat trivial information that does not reveal plot are not spoilers. In conclusion I will go to our future spoiler policy's definition of a spoiler:In fandom parlance, a "spoiler" is one or more pieces of information that may spoil the user's interest in an ongoing series. If anyone can give me a couple of reasonable explanations as to how the fact Pegasus is a Mercury-Class Battlestar is a spoiler and if a majority of people agree that trivial information not revealing plot but mention future events/items/characters I will resign the issue.--Zareck Rocks 18:50, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

:::I'm inclined to state that any specifics regarding an upcoming episode that hasn't been directly outlined in say...TV Guide or the Sci-Fi channel's own description would amount to a spoiler. I agree that the class of Battlestar is probably a trivial detail but as the episode has not aired we should leave it out until it does. The only exception to this would be where the specific revealed happened to be part of the teaser trailer airing to promote the episode.--[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 19:06, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

Flight of the Phoenix

2005-09-19T20:53:20Z

Feldspar: /* Questions */

== Overview ==

''Galactica is besieged, first internally by [[Cylon]] computer viruses, then externally by a large imminent Cylon attack force. Faced with a [[Viper]] shortage, [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] tackles the difficult task of building them from scratch. Meanwhile, [[Helo]] is dealing with the repercussions of his relationship with [[Sharon Valerii]], a known [[Humano-Cylon]].''

== Summary ==
* [[Laura Roslin]]'s illness has reached a critical level. While she is still well enough to walk, Dr. [[Cottle]] gives her approximately one month to live.
* [[Helo]] has become ''persona non grata'' to many of the crew who distrust him due to his romance with the Caprica copy of [[Humano-Cylon]] [[Sharon Valerii]].
* Many of the crew, even the generally level-headed and reliable Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]], are showing the strain of the apparent futility and fatigue of running from the Cylons.
* Chief [[Tyrol]], with also little else to do with scrapped Vipers, begins a project to craft a new fighter. Initially many crew are very skeptical, but soon many others help Tyrol.
* Helo suggests carbon composite material for the skin in lieu of the rare plate metal for the fighter. Like the American F/A-22 Raptor Air-Dominance Fighter, Tyrol's new ship is nearly invisible to [[DRADIS]].
* A Cylon [[Logic bomb]] has attacked ship's systems and will fully control ''[[Galactica]]'' once an expected Cylon force arrives to activate it by infiltration. Gaeta and Baltar work together to figure a way to rid the ship of it by erasing the hard drives of all computers. Doing this, however, would leave the ship a sitting duck for an attack while time is needed to restore function and data to the computers.
* Adama, after asking the advice of the President, allows the Caprica Valerii to connect herself to the ship's mainframe and communication systems while Gaeta and Baltar erase the hard drives of all computers.
* A Cylon fighter armada consisting of hundreds of [[Raider]]s and [[Heavy Raider]]s attempts to activate the bomb. However, Valerii responds by transmitting a version of the same bomb to the Cylon fleet, disabling it as the Cylons did the Colonial fleet during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. The Viper squadrons annihilate the helpless Cylon fleet in a joyous moment of payback.
* [[Kara Thrace]] takes the new fighter, dubbed the [[Blackbird]], for a initially ungainly test spin. This fighter was designed for speed, and delivers it. Wingman [[Lee Adama]] is horrified when the Blackbird disappears, but Kara rises above to face his ship quietly, proving the new fighter's stealth ability.
* In a ceremony similar to the one given to Commander Adama in the [[Mini-Series]], President Roslin inspects and christens the new fighter. Many sign the ship. Tyrol reveals the name of this first fighter: ''Laura''.
* The mere work on the new fighter renewed the creativity and hope of the crew--a reason why Adama allowed its construction to continue, despite the logic bomb crisis.

== Questions ==
* This episode was rare in that Baltar's [[Number Six]] was completely absent in this episode, despite the Cylon-rich plot. What would she had to say about Valerii's aid or the logic bomb?
*Just how secret is Caprica-Boomer's presence on the ''Galactica''? Even before she was brought to the CIC, much of the crew seems to have known about her: Chief Tyrol met her on Kobol, and Racetrack probably flew them back in her Raptor, but the other pilots like Hotdog also all seem to know about her (hence they are acting cold to Helo). Now, she has been taken to the CIC where the entire crew there saw her (Gaeta, Dualla, etc.) Yet in the last episode Commander Adama angrily ordered [[D'anna Biers]] not to reveal her existence because it could divide the Fleet.
*Is Dualla attracted to Apollo (or vice versa)? Duala seemed to "check out" Apollo's "backside" in "[[Resistance]]", and now she's in close physical contact with him. And Apollo has what almost might be called a jealous look when Billy shows up. Yet in "[[Home, Part I]]" Lee let it slip in conversation that he "loves" Starbuck (he didn't necessarily say it in more than platonic/fraternal way though).
**Could Billy really stand a chance against Apollo if Apollo decided to beat him up?
*Helo got angry at Chief Tyrol for calling Boomer a [[Toaster]]; is this a sign that Helo is thinking more sympathetically towards the Cylons than before? Like the Cylons, does he consider it an "offensive racial epithet"?
*Is order on the Galactica starting to break down? In the [[Mini-series]] Starbuck was put in the [[brig]] for striking a superior officer. Now, Starbuck assaulted Racetrack but there were was no visible punishment, and Tyrol got into a fight with Helo (who outranks him), also with no shown punishment. The deck crews aren't bothering to hide the still they built as much as before, going to far as to have a large "Welcome Back Cally" party with its products in public. Col. Tigh makes a halfhearted verbal chastisment of Tyrol when Tigh finds the still, but doesn't do anything about it and ends up taking a jar of booze for his own use. Also, even Lt. Gaeta is now snapping back at the command officers, shouting and even [[frak|cursing]].
*Was the software code Helo showed to Caprica-Boomer only a virus or did it contain instructions outside the scope of destabilizing and controlling Galactica's systems? Valerii's response to the code seemed to indicate it had effected her on some level or perhaps was she merely compiling it in her head?
*If the Cylons are so interested and cautious about protecting Caprica-Boomer and her unborn child as stated by [[Doral]] in the [[Final Cut]] why then are they willing to launch a massive assault against the Galactica?

== Analysis ==
* While Humano-Cylons appear human to the cellular level, Sharon could control a fiber-optic connection inserted into her forearm. This suggests that the humanoid Cylon design uses light-sensitive cells disguised as regular cells in their forearms as data access nodes, probably involving the cells interacting with her [[Silica Pathways|Silica Relays]] in her brain, the last vestiges of the humanoid Cylons' mechanical nature. Based on Valerii's extreme discomfort in having to cut herself to insert the data line to be connected this way, it could be presumed that this is not a typical practice for Humano-Cylons.
* Continuing from "[[Resistance]]", Dualla is shown being attracted to Apollo.
* Tyrol's comment to Lee Adama on the lack of miracles, and his answer to the problem, may remind some of another [http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/character/1112502.html great miracle worker] in science fiction.
* Despite Valerii's belief that she has become a "liability" to the Cylons, the previous episode made it clear that they considered the survival of her baby a paramount concern. The virus, installed before her arrival, was probably oblivious to this, but the massive fleet the Cylons deployed to interdict ''Galactica'' could not have been. Additionally, an earnest attack would almost certainly have included a basestar. We must therefore assume that the Cylons had a more complicated motive in making such a massive material sacrifice.
** Perhaps they hoped to furnish Valerii with an opportunity to demonstrate her loyalty and strategic value to the fleet, thus enabling her to ensure her future safety.
** Alternatively, perhaps the fleet was sent to ''remove'' the logic bomb from Galactica, now that it was putting Valerii in harm's way.
**Sharon could have just been "assuming" that she was a liabilty, and simply be wrong. The virus itself was introduced into the ship in "[[Scattered]]" and that was before Caprica-Boomer arrived on the Galactica. In "[[Final Cut]]" it was established that by that episode the Cylons were surprised that Sharon was still alive (they didn't know): perhaps they didn't know she was on Galactica up to that point. However, that was last episode: the Cylons knew Sharon was on Galactica when this episode's attack was launched. The virus appears to have just been acting out its function since "Scattered" (ignorant the its actions would destroy Sharon), however this doesn't clearly explain why the massive Raider attack was launched.
* Our heroes passed up a major opportunity by destroying the Cylon fleet. Adama revoked Roslin's presidency on the basis of the misappropriation of a SINGLE captured cylon Raider, yet they eliminated dozens of crippled-but-serviceable assets in the name of retribution. After all that work to create a single viper, wouldn't a squadron of superior Raidrers be worth maintaining in the unused starboard pylon?
**The Raider in "You Can't Go Home Again" was brain dead from a lucky shot. The Raiders here were turned off by a virus, but it may have been too difficult to remove all of their control mechanisms. Further, the ''Galactica'' had not idea how long it would be until Cylon reinforcements showed up; they probably didn't want to wait for a Basestar to come. Further, the civillian Fleet had jumped away from the Galactica in anticipation of the attack, and the Galactica probably didn't want to leave them unattended to long. There wasn't enough time and it was too dangerous.
*While the series as a whole does an excellent job of helping the viewer maintain his [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief suspension of disbelief], this episode arguably undermines it. Chief Tyrol whips up a brand-new fighter configuration in the space of an hour of story. All the while, the crew is battling the effects of a system-wide computer virus. The simultanenous subplots are near-miraculously solved by the end of the episode. On top of it all, now they have a carbon-composite-skinned stealth fighter, something it had ''never'' occurred to the colonials to invent previously. Contrast this with reality, where we have done little more than park on the moon for a few hours and have sent mere robot probes to the other planets... yet at the same time we have been experimenting with stealth technology since World War II (Germany had a prototypical stealth bomber) and we are incorporating carbon composite materials in airliners to save weight. What makes the current incarnation of ''Battlestar Galactica'' so compelling is that the "dud" episodes are aberrations, not the majority of the episodes.

== Notes ==

* Population count is 47,853. This is the first time this season that there has been no net change in the count from the previous episode ([[Final Cut]]).
* Literary/Film Reference: ''[[Wikipedia:Flight of the Phoenix|Flight of the Phoenix]]'' is the title of a 1964 novel where survivors from a plane crash in the middle of a desert attempt to rebuild the plane from the wreckage. Two movies, one made in 1965 and the other in 2004, were also made following a similar story line inspired by the book.
* The [[Wikipedia:phoenix|phoenix]] is a character from Egypt mythology where, at the end of its lifespan, the bird turns to ash -- only to have another phoenix arise.
* The name of new fighter, Blackbird, is also shared with the worlds's fastest supersonic aircraft, the American SR-71, which also has some stealth ability (though the Aurora is supposedly faster).
*Helo now wears a Viper patch on his flightsuit. He wasn't visibly identified as piloting one of the Vipers deployed against the Cylons, but indeed may have been.
*There is a wide shot when apparently ''all'' of Galactica's Vipers are deployed where it's possible to count how many they have: there are 42 Vipers visible onscreen. Oddly, the current count says that there should be no more than 34, and even with [[Joe Palladino]] on parole after [[Final Cut]] and Helo in a Viper, Galactica shouldn't be able to muster more than 25 pilots.
**There are at least 7 Viper Mk. VII's visible in this shot. This agrees well with [[Scattered]].
*The first episode without an appearance by Number Six.
*At the end when Chief Tyrol reconciles with Cally (no longer upset with her for killing Galactica-Boomer), she reaches into a Viper and fixes something he couldn't reach, and he responds "Nice to be small, huh?". This is remeniscent of the scene at the end of the [[Mini-series]], when they have almost the exact same exchange. In that scene, they were reconciling after ''Cally'' got angry that Tyrol was having a relationship with Galactica-Boomer.
*President Roslin returns the book "[[Dark Day]]" to Commander Adama, which he gave to her back in the second episode, "[[Water]]".
*Chief Tyrol and Galactica-Boomer were planning to leave the military together and get married before the Cylon attack. Galen doesn't know now if this is what she really wanted, or if it was just another Cylon manipulation.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*Apollo: Nobody's expecting a miracle.
:Tyrol: Maybe that's the problem.

*''Discussing Helo's return to the Galactica:''
:Duck: So he's the cylon lover.
:Starbuck: You know what? I don't care who or what he fraks. He saved my ass down there, all right?
:Duck:How could anyone fall in love with a toaster, though?
:Starbuck: Same way I hear everyone was high-fiving our Sharon right before she put two in Adama's chest. The bastards frak with your head.
:Hotdog: Yeah. Just ask the chief.

*''Card game in the Viper pilot's lockeroom:''
:Racetrack: Been playing with these cards for so long, I know every fold.
:Starbuck: So life's a bitch. What do you want to do, cry about it?
:Racetrack: No, I just want it to end, okay? The bad food, the endless rotations, pretending that a card game is the high point of our day.
:Starbuck: It's not going to last forever, all right? Earth is out there.
:Racetrack: Right. We could all be chasing our tails over some half-assed planetarium show.
:Starbuck: And you guys can all go to hell. I'm going to go find Helo.
:Racetrack: Good idea. Maybe that Cylon whore taught him a few tricks.

''(Starbuck politely turns around, walks over to Racetrack and grabs he by the neck and slams her head into the card table).''

*''Helo is sitting in Sharon's old Raptor when the Chief walks up:''
:Helo: Hey! Look, chief. I never intended for Sharon and I to-- You know, it just kind of evolved.
:Tyrol: Just a couple lovesick kids, huh?
:Helo: I know how she felt about you, okay? She loves you.
:Tyrol: Did she fill you in on the rest of the plan? She and I were going to muster out at the end of our service. You know, then we would get married. Maybe we would have children. I guess I'm just a big frakkin' idiot, though, huh? Probably that goddamn [[Toaster]]'s plan all along.
:Helo: Don't call her that.
:Tyrol: Sucker some moron into giving her a kid. Hey, you know, but you know what? I should probably be grateful to you. Probably be grateful. You know why? Because that freak in her belly could have been mine! ''(Helo and Tyrol fight)''

*''Lt. Gaeta is starting to lose him composure under constant pressure:''
:Gaeta: Sir, I'm running every diagnostic we've got. Checking each line of code could take days.
:Tigh: I am not interested in excuses. Fix it!
:Gaeta: (''shouting'') It's not an excuse, sir. It's a frakking fact!

*Commander Adama: Months on the run, and what do we have to show for it? Casualties. Deteriorating conditions. This crew needs a rest. It's finally hitting them, that's all. Our old lives are gone. The only thing we have to look forward to is this

*''Tigh walks into the tool closet on the hanger deck''
:Tigh: What's this, chief?
:Tyrol: I'm making solvent, sir, to clean machine parts.
:Tigh: Solvent my ass. I know a still when I smell it.

*''Starbuck is taking the [[Blackbird]] on it's first test flight while Apollo follows:''
:Apollo: Starbuck, Starbuck, where are you? Starbuck, come in. Starbuck, do you read? Kara, are you okay?
:Starbuck: (''Starbuck turns the lights of the Blackbird on; she's actually got her ship feet away from Apollo's, facing it'') Of course you lost contact. It's a damned stealth ship, remember?

*Roslin: Oh, you're much too modest. After what we've been through, it would be very easy to give up, to lose hope. But not here. Not today. This is more than a ship, Chief. This is an act of faith. It is proof that despite all we've lost, we keep trying. And we will get through this, all of us, together. I promise.

== Official Statements ==




== Statistics ==



=== Guest Stars ===

=== Writing & Direction ===

*Written by
*Directed by

=== Production Notes ===

*Series: 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.??
*Airdate Order: 9 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate:
*US Airdate: September 16th, 2005
*DVD Release: (UK)

{{Episode List}}

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]] [[Category:RDM]]

Final Cut

2005-09-19T20:44:19Z

Feldspar: /* Questions */

== Overview ==

: ''[[D'anna Biers]], an investigative journalist, makes a critical documentary on [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]]'s conduct during a "Kent State"-like crisis.''

== Summary ==
*Reporter D'anna Biers is preparing a special report on what she's hyped as the "[[Gideon]] massacre]], when she is escorted by Marines to Colonial One. President Roslin and Commander Adama meet her, and she complains that all of her requests to interview Marines involved with the Gideon incident have been denied. Roslin and Adama tell her that all that is about to change: they want to mend the relationship between the military and the civillian fleet by allowing D'anna to shoot a documentary on life on the ''Galactica'', with unrestricted access.
*D'anna and her cameraman [[Bell]] are flown to ''Galactica'' with Adama in [[Racetrack]]'s Raptor. On Galactica [[Dualla]] is given the task of showing them around, pointing out fairly everyday things like carbon dioxide scrubbers for atmosphere and vegetable refrigeration units and D'anna doesn't bother filming any of the boring information.
*D'anna starts filming her one on one interviews with several crewmen. She asks Dualla why she goined the Fleet, and she says her father didn't approve but she wanted to believe in something.
*D'anna and her cameraman are walking through the halls when [[Hot Dog]] and [[Kat]] chase each other out of the showers wearing towels. D'anna follows them into the pilot's locker room, where Apollo (who accidentally nearly drops his towel) tells her to respect their privacy and get out. Kat moons the documentary camera, and gets yelled at by Apollo.
*Ellen Tigh calls Col. Tigh down to their quarters, where someone has left a threat for Tigh by writing a line of Caprican poetry in red paint on their mirror.
*D'anna then interviews Apollo, and she accuses him of thinking the pilots deserve preferential treament. He tells her that he does; they risk their lives every day for the fleet, and while they don't need their pity, they do deeserve their respect.
*D'anna interviews Pvt. [[Scott Kelso]], one of the Marines that was on the Gideon. He insists that he and the other Marines were just doing their jobs, and that the "unarmed civillians" were attacking them, and that he has a scar on this head that required ten stitches to prove it. At the same time, Kelso thinks the whole thing was a "command frak-up"; that the Marines weren't trained for crowd control, and he isn't surprised that someone wants to kill Col. Tigh.
*D'anna then interviews a disheveled Lt. Gaeta, who is smoking a cigarette while displaying a level of frustration and fatigue that he doesn't normally show.
*On the flight deck, Kat yells at Tyrol when her Viper malfunctions, even though it wasn't the Chief's fault. Starbuck breaks it up (as D'anna follows her) and Kat storms out.
*D'anna is then allowed into the CIC, where Commander Adama orders Tigh to go to a big meeting of civillian leader on [[Cloud Nine]], which Adama thinks will be a good chance for them to vent their frustration instead of seething at Tigh in private. Howeveer, while leaving on a Raptor, it malfunctions and smokes until a damage control team can put it out. Tigh gets out and Tyrol tells him it looks like someone sabatoged the Raptor with hammer, and if they had gotten into space the atmosphere would have vented, killing him.
*[[Racetrack]] lights a candle for her lost loved ones in the memorial hallway, and is then interviewed by D'anna. She tells D'anna that she assumes that she's already as good as dead going out on missions, and she just hopes she can kill as many Cylons as she can before her day comes. D'anna also interviews [[Helo]], who says that in combat you're supposed to turn off the human part or you because that will get you killed, but that nothing is that easy to do.
*Helo then visits [[Sharon Valerii|Caprica-Boomer]] in the [[brig]], where she in unresponsive in her bed until pulling a blood-stained hand from under her sheets and sobbing. Helo calls for Doctor [[Cottle]] to come right away.
*[[Kat]] gives an interview to D'anna in which which is emotionally unrestrained. She then freaks out while attempting to land her Viper, and despite Capt. [[Kelly]] and Stabuck trying to talk her down, she misses three passes, then on the final try crashes her Viper into the flight deck. D'anna follows Starbuck and Apollo to the flight deck. Getting out of her Viper, Kat is incomprehensible and disoriented. Starbuck reaches into her sleeve pocket and finds [[Stims]]: Kat had been taking them by the fistful to stay alert, and now she's finally OD'd. Kat is forcibly strapped down to a gurney while kicking and screaming and taken to [[Sickbay]].
*D'anna follows Kat to Sickbay, where she accidentally goes behind a curtain and sees Doctor Cottle arguing with the terrified Caprica-Boomer; Cottle is trying to save her baby before Boomer has a miscarriage. D'anna is then shoved away, but not before catching Caprica-Boomer on film.
*Later, Commander Adama arrives in Sickbay and demands that D'anna hand over the tape. D'anna nots that the woman she saw looked exactly like the deceased [[Sharon Valerii|Galactica-Boomer]], and that news that ''Galactica'' is harboring a Cylon aboard could turn the Fleet against him. Adama counters that after the Gideon incident this new revelation could devastate morale in the fleet, and whether that even matters to D'anna. Reluctantly, D'anna gives him the tape and he leaves, after which she pulls the ''real'' tape out of her shirt.
*Baltar begins a less than great interview with D'anna but is interupted when an alarm goes off. Two Raiders are on a collision course with the Galactica. D'anna heads to the CIC to film there while her cameraman covers the flight deck. We only see the fight from the perspective of those on the ship listening over the radio; the Raiders are destroyed.
*Tigh returns to his quarters to find Ellen tied up. It turns out that his would-be murder is Palladino, who is upset that Tigh's orders resulted in innocent people being killed by men under Palladino's command. He pulls a gun on Tigh, but Tigh presses the gun to his forehead and talks Palladino down, and Marines take him away.
*Back on Colonial One, Roslin, Adama, and Tigh review D'anna's finished documentary. Adama decides that he likes the accurate portrayal that she did, and lets them broadcast it across the entire fleet. In the documentary, D'anna does an ending voiceover where as the music swells in the backround she explains that the story of ''Galactica'' is that they'll never give up. We see people watching it on monitor screens throughout the Fleet.....
*...and cut back to see the humanoid Cylons watching it too in an abandoned movie theater on Cylon-Occupied [[Caprica]]. [[Number Six]] is impressed at the resilience of the humans, and asks about the fate of Caprica-Boomer's baby. A copy of D'anna Biers then turns around (D'anna revealed to have been a [[Humano-Cylon]] the whole time), and tells her that both Caprica-Boomer and her baby survived her near-miscarriage. [[Aaron Doral]] says that the baby must be protected at all costs, and they must proceed with caution.

== Questions ==
*The Cylons deployed two [[Raider]]s to the ''Galactica'' to transmit D'anna's video documentary back to Caprica. Does this mean the Cylons know ''exactly'' where the [[Fleet]] is, and have simply chosen ''not'' to intercept it? Is keeping the Fleet alive part of their "Plan"?
** Possibly, in the "de-briefing" towards the end of the episode, Caprica D'anna meant the two Raiders transmitted the footage she cut from the documentary (showing Helo's Boomer in the Sickbay). It is possible they meant that they picked up the whole "show" from fleet transmissions and the snippet from the two Raiders.
**Or, are the Cylons ''now'' refraining from sending in a full [[Basestar]] and Raider wing to attack the Galactica because they are worried that a direct attack on the Galactica will result in the death of Caprica-Boomer and her hybrid daughter? That is, they would have attacked it if Boomer wasn't on board, but was sending two Raiders in now simply a reconaissance mission? The Cylons did say that they want to proceed cautiously.
**Then again, the two Raiders didn't jump in to the Fleet's vicinity, they flew in normally. Perhaps the Cylons actually ''don't'' know exactly where the Fleet is, and these Raiders may have been searching for days to find them. Seeing as the Cylons on Caprica weren't aware that the Caprica-Boomer was still alive, perhaps they also trully aren't aware of the Fleet's location, and other Cylons in the Fleet cannot transmit messages back to Caprica because they are out of range (though a nearby Cylon ship might be close enough).
**In light of all this, have the Cylons''not'' been using their entire strength against the Colonials in combat? Have they, in effect, been "toying" with them? This could explain the relative lop-sidedness of the Colonials' military victories since the initial destruction of the Colonies.
*Did Biers discovery of pregnant Caprica-Valerii on the Galactica alter her intended goal with the documentary.
**Would the documentary have presented Galactica and her crew in a more negative light and thus perform a journalistic hatchet job on how the rest of the fleet perceived Adama and the military?
**Would Adama and Roslin still have allowed the documentary to be broadcast if it had been 'negative?'

== Analysis ==
At the end of the episode, D'anna says that the Cylons "lost two Raiders relaying the images back to ''the Fleet''" from the ''Galactica''. She didn't say "from the ''Galactica'' back to ''Caprica''". Does this imply that there is a main Cylon fleet following ''Galactica''?
*This will be covered in the episode ''[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]''.

== Notes ==
*Population count is now 47,853, a loss of two since [[Home, Part II]], to account for the two [[Tom Zarek]] henchmen killed in that episode.
*Onboard ''[[Colonial One]]'', Roslin is no longer surrounded by her Secret Service agents, but rather by ''Galactica'' marines - Adama's insurance against any more misbehavior, perhaps?
**Perhaps they were only there to escort Commander Adama while he was off of Galactica?
*D'anna Biers makes the same comment about Baltar that Roslin made in ''[[33]]''.
*We finally learn [[Dualla]]'s first name as she is interviewed by [[D'anna Biers]]: ''Anastasia''.
*Gaeta's first name is revealed as ''[[Felix Gaeta|Felix]]''. He also showed a wild side in the form of a tattoo on his chest he got when he was drunk. He's also taken up smoking. Perhaps this isn't so much a sign of a previously unrevealed wild side, but a sign that Gaeta's composure is starting to get frayed from constant stress.
*The [[ECO]] known as [[Racetrack]] has a full name: ''[[Margaret Edmondson]]''.
*The music aired at the end of the documentary is the Colonial Fanfare last heard in the [[Mini Series]]: the theme from the original "Battlestar Galactica" TV series. In the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, it is apparently the "national anthem" of the Twelve Colonies.
*Adama uses the phrase "warts and all." This was invented by 17th-Century English dictator ("Lord Protector") [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell Oliver Cromwell].
*Timeline-wise, Col. Tigh says there's been no Cylon contactcs for 10 days. Col. Tigh was in command of ''Galactica'' for "over a week" (from "[[Scattered]]" to "[[Resistance]]").
*Colonial video feeds are octagonal, but video screens are (oddly) rectangular.
*Capt. [[Kelly]] appears fulfilling his duties as Landing Signal Officer by coordinating Viper landings. This scene further explains the "where was Kelly between the mini series and season 2?" question: he doesn't work in the [[CIC]], but in the flight pod itself.
*Goof: In the last scene, the Caprica Biers says that two Raiders were lost relaying the video back to the fleet, yet the documentary was not complete when the Raiders attacked. Indeed, the Caprican Cylons are shown watching the closing footage of the documentary, which shows Adama's outburst in the CIC ("Yes!"). This outburst was prompted by the destruction of the second Raider.
**Perhaps they launched a transmitter buoy before their destruction? Maybe they were just a diversion for another Raider transmiting from beyond DRADIS range?
**The video relayed to the Cylon fleet from the Raiders was just the part that was cut. The rest of the video was broadcast to the fleet so the Cylons could easily pick up that transmission.
*Roslin and Adama have not only buried the hatchet by this episode, but are working jointly and appear to have developed a comeraderie.
*This episode contains the first scene on Colonial One since [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]].
*Cultural/Linguistic oddity: Apollo refers to Kat and Hot Dog as "tweedledum and tweedledee", a reference to [[Wikipedia:Lewis Carroll|Lewis Carroll]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
** ''After meeting Dr. Gaius Baltar for the first time:''
*:D'anna Biers: What a strange little man.

** ''D'anna Biers is filming an interview with Apollo:''
*:D'anna Biers: You seem to think that your pilots deserve special consideration.
*:Apollo: Actually, I do. Like everyone else, my pilots have lost their families, their friends, everyone they ever cared about; but on top of that their asked to put their lives on the line every single day, for a fleet that seems more interested in what they do wrong than in what they do right. They're not asking for your pity, but they damn well deserve your respect.

** ''D'anna Biers is interviewing Racetrack:''
*:D'anna Biers: Are you afraid when you go into combat?
*:Racetrack: First thing they tell you is to assume you're already dead.
*:D'anna Biers: Well that sounds ghoulish.
*:Racetrack: Yeah, maybe. But dead men don't get scared and freeze up under fire. Me, I'm just worried that hell's gonna be a lonely place, and I'm gonna fill it up with every Toaster son of a bitch I find.

** ''D'anna Biers is interviewing Lt. Gaeta. Gaeta is slightly disheveled, and is smoking a cigarette:''
*:D'anna Biers: Does that help you cope with the stress?
*:Lt. Felix Gaeta: Not really. Look, um, all that I ever wanted was to be an officer on a Battlestar, okay? I trained my whole life, I trained harder than anyone in my unit. Basically, I put my life on hold until I was assigned to ''Galactica''. Then the Cylons hit and I realized that this is all that I know: tech manuals, commands, and tactics, you know? I'm not saying that I'm unhappy...I'm just wondering if there's something more.
*:D'anna Biers: And what have you discovered?
*:Lt. Felix Gaeta: ...[takes a long drag, coughs]...I hate cigarettes. Ambrosia's good with a chaser. And, if you have enough Ambrosia...[Gaeta pulls back his shirt to reveal an ugly tatoo of a tiger on his upper right chest]...it don't hurt that much.

** ''The closing voice-over narration to D'anna Biers' documentary on the Battlestar Galactica, which runs over a montage of images from the ship. The Colonial Anthem tinkles in the backround and gradually builds to up to a grand swell:''
*:D'anna Biers: I came to ''Galactica'' to tell a story. In all honesty I thought I knew what that story was before I ever set foot there: how an arrogant military let their egos get in the way of doing their jobs, safeguarding the lives of the civillian population. But I found out that the truth was more complex than that. These people aren't Cylons. They're not robots blindly following orders and polishing their boots. They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too, and maybe that's saying the same thing. What struck me most is that despite it all; the hardships, the stress, the ever present danger of being killed, despite all that they never give up. They never lie down in the road and let the truck run them over. They wake up in the morning, put on their uniforms and do their jobs. Every day. No pay, no rest, no hope of ever laying down the burden or letting someone else do the job. There are no relief troops coming, no Colonial Fleet training new recruits every day. The people on ''Galactica'' are ''it''. They are the thin line of blue that separates us from the Cylons. Lt. Gaeta told me a remarkable statistic; not a single member of Galactica's crew has asked to resign, not one. Think about that. If you wore the uniform wouldn't you want to quit? To step aside and say "enough! Let someone else protect the fleet"? I know I would. But then, I don't wear a uniform. Most of us don't, most of us never will. The story of ''Galactica'' isn't that people make bad decisions under pressure, it's that those mistakes are the exception. Most of the time the men and women serving under Commander Adama get it right. The proof is that our fleet ''survives''. And with ''Galactica'' at our side, we ''will'' endure. This is D'anna Biers, Fleet News Service.

** ''The camera pulls back to show a movie theater on Cylon-occupied [[The Twelve Colonies#Caprica|Caprica]], where the humanoid Cylons are watching a copy of the documentary, as D'anna Biers' ending narration finishes:''
*:Aaron Doral: That was shown across their entire fleet.
*:Number Six: Their resilience is remarkable.
*:Sharon Valerii: Play the footage that was cut. [camera footage plays of Helo's Sharon in Galactica's Sickbay]
*:Sharon Valerii: I'm still alive?! She's still alive! I told you.
*:Number Six: That's incredible. And the baby?
*:D'anna Biers: [speaking without her usual New Zealand accent, but with a normal American accent] It was saved. We lost two Raiders relaying the images back to the Fleet, but I think the sacrifice was worth it.
*:Aaron Doral: We must proceed with caution. The child's life must be protected at all costs.
*:D'anna Biers: Yeah. Truly is a miracle of God.

== Official Statements ==

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnely Rhodes] as [[Cottle]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[D'anna Biers]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1382781/ Luciana Carro] as [[Kat]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Leah+Cairns Leah Cairns] as [[Racetrack]]
*[[IMDB-person:Ty Olsson|Ty Olsson]] as Capt. [[Kelly]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]

=== Writing & Direction ===

*Written by
*Story by
*Teleplay by
*Directed by

=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005/2006)
*Production Number: 2.8
*Airdate Order: 8 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate: 2005
*US Airdate: September 9th, 2005 (note - airdate had been planned for September 2nd, 2005, however, SciFi is running a Stargate SG-1 Viewers Choice Marathon for the Labor Day Weekend)
*DVD Release: Date

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category: A to Z]]

Home, Part II

2005-08-29T17:15:04Z

Feldspar: /* Questions */

== Overview ==

''Adama leads a mission to Kobol to find President Roslin and her team of tomb-hunters, reconcile with his son, and reunite the divided fleet.''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==
* How did Adama and the others return from the map of Earth?
**What exactly was the map of Earth? Were they in the same room in the Tomb of Athena, and a 3D hologram was projected around them? Could it have been "all in their heads?" If so, would it even be perceived by the Cylons if they tried to view it?
**Did they retrieve the Arrow of Apollo? Is the map still active? If the Cylons find the map in working order and can use it, could they use the strength of their information networks to find Earth before the colonials do?
*Just who or what is the copy of Number Six that Dr. Baltar sees all the time? It is firmly established that she is not some sort of computer chip in his head, but at the same time it is established that she can't possibly be just a hallucination by Baltar's guilt-ridden subconscious mind. Baltar himself has come to the realization that she is aware of actual facts (like that a Cylon copy pregnant with a hybrid child would be brought into the new brig) that his own subconscious couldn't possibly have known of. Six herself simply said that she's "an angel of God sent here to protect you [Gaius]". Is she truly some form of supernatural force (like Count [[Iblis]] in the Original Series)? Repeated medical scans showed no foreign objects in Baltar's mind.
**Could the Cylons simply have developed an "organic chip" that would be indestinguishable from Baltar's normal brain tissue when scanned? (Cylons do seem to have mastered much of bio-mechanical engineering.) If so, does Six exist more like a transponder from a nearby Cylon source, where his body and mind can be monitored by what he sees and does, and responses and an image of Six sent to him. Obviously, from his virtual sex with Six, the connection also can control his senses and manupulate him like a marionette: Six's image could even assault Baltar ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).
**While the Cylons are good at macro-bioenginering, they still lack results in micro-bioengineering as it relates to cells, most notably creating human/Cylon embryos ([[The Farm]]). If there is not a chip in Baltar's head, and he is not hallucinating, could this add more to the speculation that Baltar himself is a Human-Cylon? (See [[Gaius Baltar]]'s page for arguments for and against this theory in the Speculation section.)
**How was Six capable of moving the chair in the Cylon holding cell? (This may just be a blooper.)
*Caprica-Boomer reminded Adama that he asked her Galactica counterpart's corpse "why" in [[Resistance]]. How did she know, without also knowing that Galactica Boomer had been killed? Or, was Boomer answering Adama's question of "why" from his attack: that humans have always abused Cylons as he had just done?
**Along that line, in the previous scene with [[Helo]], Caprica-Boomer mentions how she able to remember portions of her life (such as getting her wings), and not others (such as the assassination of [[William Adama]]). Is the communication between copies delayed or possibly selective, even in death?
*How can Adama use the Messier number M8 to refer to the Lagoon Nebula? The Messier catalog was created in 1774, on Earth. Possible answers:
**Parallel development between Earth and the Twelve Colonies extends past attire, vehicles, medicine and government documents to include highly specific astronomical nomenclature.
**The show is set in the past, and Galactica arrives at Earth in time to influence 18th century astronomy.
**The show is set in the distant future, and the inhabitants of Kobol are actually descendents of an Earth-based population, some of whom returned after a vaguely-alluded-to disaster.
***This is supported by otherwise difficult to explain terms such as the Battlestar [[Columbia]], which appears to be named for the 15th century Earth explorer [[Wikipedia:Christopher Columbus|Christopher Columbus]].
*What are Tom Zarek's true motivations? We see in [[Home, Part I]] that he had a desire to become the next "Fleet Commander", like [[William Adama]], and willing to go along and eliminate anyone in his way, such as [[Lee Adama]]. Yet as he journeys Kobol, he reverses his position and applauds [[Laura Roslin]] when she re-assumes the presidency.
*Caprica-Sharon's claim that the Cylons know more about Colonial religion than the Colonials raises interesting questions. The Cylons had direct access to the Arrow of Apollo and had at least a token presence on Kobol. If all of them knew where the Tomb of Athena was as Valerii claims, why didn't they use this knowledge to locate Earth themselves?

== Analysis ==
*The map to Earth is believable and satisfying: no goofy special effects or flaming letters spelling out "Go This Way," just basic astronomy. It gives the Colonials both a "compass" and "landmarks" to follow.

*The compass is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon_Nebula Lagoon Nebula], an actual nebula visible from both Earth and the Colonies. Assuming the Colonials' astronomical instruments are advanced enough to permit them to see the nebula from a greater distance than we can, the Lagoon Nebula gives them a general direction to head toward. They also know that Earth is within realistic traveling distance, and they know that Earth will be in a sphere centered on the Lagoon Nebula. The twelve star groupings that appeared on the Colonies' original flags are actual constellations, the twelve signs of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac Zodiac] (Aquarius, Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Pisces, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Taurus and Virgo). These constellations will serve as landmarks: at the right planet, or within perhaps a few light-years of the nebula, these constellations will begin appear as they do on the Colonials' flags, assuming that they compensate for the natural drift of stars relative to Earth over time, as constellations are not static.

*If each of the Twelve Tribes had an associated symbol that the Thirteenth Tribe identified in their constellations, did the Thirteenth Tribe have one of their own? There is a thirteenth constellation in the Zodiac, [[Wikipedia:Ophiuchus|Ophiuchus]] the snake-wrestler, which is not included in astrology.

*As the nebula and constellations in the map to Earth are recognizably ours, this would appear to indicate that the Tomb of Athena isn't a Cylon construct intended to lead the Colonials astray.

*Even so, it could take the Colonials years of searching within the vicinity of the Lagoon Nebula to find Earth.

* This may be the first episode where Adama and the President call each other by their first names, and not formally: "Bill" and "Laura." By the end of this episode, it appears that Adama realizes that, while Roslin did step over the line with her redirection of Starbuck, that there was a logical need to get information on Earth in any way possible. After his near-death experience, Adama seemed more resigned that they should all meet their doom or glory together rather than separate. Roslin reinforced the fleet's hope and gave it direction and purpose. Adama's rousing formal applause generation for Roslin at the end of the episode shows that Adama has firmly buried the hatchet between himself and the President.

* Commander Adama's sense of humor is returning: first in his talk with Billy about Roslin's comments on his future of being president someday ("Don't let it go to your head: [[Adar]] was a moron.") and in his glib comment on how well their luck was going so far, as their Raptor's descent subjected them to several G-forces and pressed both of them firmly, visibly and uncomfortably against the bulkheads.

* Helo is already experiencing repercussions regarding his relationship with Caprica-Boomer. First by Apollo, who voices his uneasiness about the pair to Starbuck and then later, indirectly, by Commander Adama himself who makes a point of leaving Helo outside the Tomb of Athena with Zarek, Boomer and Tyrol. Tyrol was given the order to guard them which indicates that the chief is the only one of the four left outside that Adama trusts.

== Notes ==
*Population is 47,855, a loss of three since Part I. Two of these were seen on-screen in the last episode (Elosha and a [[Laura Roslin faction]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_%28science_fiction%29 Redshirt]). The other may have happened offscreen in the same ambush.
** At episode's end, the count is now 47,853, with the death of [[Meier]] and one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s lackeys.
*This episode may have been titled "The Raid" in its early production.
*The fleet has been reunited, and Commander Adama has restored Laura Roslin to the Presidency.
*The Fleet now has a general idea of the direction they need to take to find Earth.
*Helo still loves Caprica-Sharon, although he knows she's a Cylon.
*Caprica-Sharon's hybrid child is a girl. She claims to just "know" this.
*The child that Six claims she and Baltar will have ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) is actually Caprica-Sharon and Helo's biological daughter.
*Caprica-Sharon does not "remember" shooting Commander Adama, and she was unaware that Galactica-Sharon was killed by [[Cally]] (she thought she was just in the [[brig]]). Sharon thinks of herself as a "person" and not simply "a machine".
*Caprica-Sharon possesses the memories of Galactica-Sharon's two years aboard the ''Galactica''. She "remembers" how exilerating it was to get her wings and how it felt to be a member of the "family" that is the Galactica's crew, and she considers Chief [[Tyrol]] a dear friend of sorts, even though she admits she herself has never actually met him. Caprica-Sharon herself acknowledges that it's weird that she has deep-seated memories of things she fully knows she's never actually done.
*Caprica-Sharon apparently still believes that there is only "one true God" and that the Colonials "worship false idols".
*Caprica-Sharon flat out says that the Cylons know more about the Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves.
*According to Starbuck's observations, the Cylons have a plan for Caprica; "they're cleaning up the bodies, moving in the heavy machinery to repair the infrastructure..."
*Dr. Baltar has had a medical scan performed on his head, and it appears that there are no "foreign objects", like a metallic computer chip containing a copy of Number Six's mind, within it.
*Baltar has come to the realization that the copy of [[Number Six]] he sees cannot be just a hallucination, because she knows things his subconscious mind couldn't possibly know.
*This episode probably begins a few hours after [[Home, Part I]], although it could conceivably begin immediately after it.
*If the map displayed in the Tomb of Athena was from the perspective of an earth-bound viewer, the Lagoon Nebula should have been in Sagittarius, not Scorpio.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''On "Earth":''
*:Cmdr. Adama: I thought we were in the Tomb of Athena.
*:Starbuck: I think that was just the lobby.

== Official Statements ==

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns] as [[Racetrack]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as [[Doctor Cottle]]

=== Writing & Direction ===

=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.07
*Airdate Order: 7 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate:
*US Airdate: August 26th, 2005
*DVD Release:

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)|Home, Part II]]
[[Category: A to Z|Home, Part II]]

Home, Part II

2005-08-29T17:07:44Z

Feldspar: /* Analysis */

== Overview ==

''Adama leads a mission to Kobol to find President Roslin and her team of tomb-hunters, reconcile with his son, and reunite the divided fleet.''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==
* How did Adama and the others return from the map of Earth?
**What exactly was the map of Earth? Were they in the same room in the Tomb of Athena, and a 3D hologram was projected around them? Could it have been "all in their heads?" If so, would it even be perceived by the Cylons if they tried to view it?
**Did they retrieve the Arrow of Apollo? Is the map still active? If the Cylons find the map in working order and can use it, could they use the strength of their information networks to find Earth before the colonials do?
*Just who or what is the copy of Number Six that Dr. Baltar sees all the time? It is firmly established that she is not some sort of computer chip in his head, but at the same time it is established that she can't possibly be just a hallucination by Baltar's guilt-ridden subconscious mind. Baltar himself has come to the realization that she is aware of actual facts (like that a Cylon copy pregnant with a hybrid child would be brought into the new brig) that his own subconscious couldn't possibly have known of. Six herself simply said that she's "an angel of God sent here to protect you [Gaius]". Is she truly some form of supernatural force (like Count [[Iblis]] in the Original Series)? Repeated medical scans showed no foreign objects in Baltar's mind.
**Could the Cylons simply have developed an "organic chip" that would be indestinguishable from Baltar's normal brain tissue when scanned? (Cylons do seem to have mastered much of bio-mechanical engineering.) If so, does Six exist more like a transponder from a nearby Cylon source, where his body and mind can be monitored by what he sees and does, and responses and an image of Six sent to him. Obviously, from his virtual sex with Six, the connection also can control his senses and manupulate him like a marionette: Six's image could even assault Baltar ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).
**While the Cylons are good at macro-bioenginering, they still lack results in micro-bioengineering as it relates to cells, most notably creating human/Cylon embryos ([[The Farm]]). If there is not a chip in Baltar's head, and he is not hallucinating, could this add more to the speculation that Baltar himself is a Human-Cylon? (See [[Gaius Baltar]]'s page for arguments for and against this theory in the Speculation section.)
**How was Six capable of moving the chair in the Cylon holding cell? (This may just be a blooper.)
*Caprica-Boomer reminded Adama that he asked her Galactica counterpart's corpse "why" in [[Resistance]]. How did she know, without also knowing that Galactica Boomer had been killed? Or, was Boomer answering Adama's question of "why" from his attack: that humans have always abused Cylons as he had just done?
**Along that line, in the previous scene with [[Helo]], Caprica-Boomer mentions how she able to remember portions of her life (such as getting her wings), and not others (such as the assassination of [[William Adama]]). Is the communication between copies delayed or possibly selective, even in death?
*How can Adama use the Messier number M8 to refer to the Lagoon Nebula? The Messier catalog was created in 1774, on Earth. Possible answers:
**Parallel development between Earth and the Twelve Colonies extends past attire, vehicles, medicine and government documents to include highly specific astronomical nomenclature.
**The show is set in the past, and Galactica arrives at Earth in time to influence 18th century astronomy.
**The show is set in the distant future, and the inhabitants of Kobol are actually descendents of an Earth-based population, some of whom returned after a vaguely-alluded-to disaster.
***This is supported by otherwise difficult to explain terms such as the Battlestar [[Columbia]], which appears to be named for the 15th century Earth explorer [[Wikipedia:Christopher Columbus|Christopher Columbus]].
*What are Tom Zarek's true motivations? We see in [[Home, Part I]] that he had a desire to become the next "Fleet Commander", like [[William Adama]], and willing to go along and eliminate anyone in his way, such as [[Lee Adama]]. Yet as he journeys Kobol, he reverses his position and applauds [[Laura Roslin]] when she re-assumes the presidency.

== Analysis ==
*The map to Earth is believable and satisfying: no goofy special effects or flaming letters spelling out "Go This Way," just basic astronomy. It gives the Colonials both a "compass" and "landmarks" to follow.

*The compass is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon_Nebula Lagoon Nebula], an actual nebula visible from both Earth and the Colonies. Assuming the Colonials' astronomical instruments are advanced enough to permit them to see the nebula from a greater distance than we can, the Lagoon Nebula gives them a general direction to head toward. They also know that Earth is within realistic traveling distance, and they know that Earth will be in a sphere centered on the Lagoon Nebula. The twelve star groupings that appeared on the Colonies' original flags are actual constellations, the twelve signs of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac Zodiac] (Aquarius, Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Pisces, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Taurus and Virgo). These constellations will serve as landmarks: at the right planet, or within perhaps a few light-years of the nebula, these constellations will begin appear as they do on the Colonials' flags, assuming that they compensate for the natural drift of stars relative to Earth over time, as constellations are not static.

*If each of the Twelve Tribes had an associated symbol that the Thirteenth Tribe identified in their constellations, did the Thirteenth Tribe have one of their own? There is a thirteenth constellation in the Zodiac, [[Wikipedia:Ophiuchus|Ophiuchus]] the snake-wrestler, which is not included in astrology.

*As the nebula and constellations in the map to Earth are recognizably ours, this would appear to indicate that the Tomb of Athena isn't a Cylon construct intended to lead the Colonials astray.

*Even so, it could take the Colonials years of searching within the vicinity of the Lagoon Nebula to find Earth.

* This may be the first episode where Adama and the President call each other by their first names, and not formally: "Bill" and "Laura." By the end of this episode, it appears that Adama realizes that, while Roslin did step over the line with her redirection of Starbuck, that there was a logical need to get information on Earth in any way possible. After his near-death experience, Adama seemed more resigned that they should all meet their doom or glory together rather than separate. Roslin reinforced the fleet's hope and gave it direction and purpose. Adama's rousing formal applause generation for Roslin at the end of the episode shows that Adama has firmly buried the hatchet between himself and the President.

* Commander Adama's sense of humor is returning: first in his talk with Billy about Roslin's comments on his future of being president someday ("Don't let it go to your head: [[Adar]] was a moron.") and in his glib comment on how well their luck was going so far, as their Raptor's descent subjected them to several G-forces and pressed both of them firmly, visibly and uncomfortably against the bulkheads.

* Helo is already experiencing repercussions regarding his relationship with Caprica-Boomer. First by Apollo, who voices his uneasiness about the pair to Starbuck and then later, indirectly, by Commander Adama himself who makes a point of leaving Helo outside the Tomb of Athena with Zarek, Boomer and Tyrol. Tyrol was given the order to guard them which indicates that the chief is the only one of the four left outside that Adama trusts.

== Notes ==
*Population is 47,855, a loss of three since Part I. Two of these were seen on-screen in the last episode (Elosha and a [[Laura Roslin faction]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_%28science_fiction%29 Redshirt]). The other may have happened offscreen in the same ambush.
** At episode's end, the count is now 47,853, with the death of [[Meier]] and one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s lackeys.
*This episode may have been titled "The Raid" in its early production.
*The fleet has been reunited, and Commander Adama has restored Laura Roslin to the Presidency.
*The Fleet now has a general idea of the direction they need to take to find Earth.
*Helo still loves Caprica-Sharon, although he knows she's a Cylon.
*Caprica-Sharon's hybrid child is a girl. She claims to just "know" this.
*The child that Six claims she and Baltar will have ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) is actually Caprica-Sharon and Helo's biological daughter.
*Caprica-Sharon does not "remember" shooting Commander Adama, and she was unaware that Galactica-Sharon was killed by [[Cally]] (she thought she was just in the [[brig]]). Sharon thinks of herself as a "person" and not simply "a machine".
*Caprica-Sharon possesses the memories of Galactica-Sharon's two years aboard the ''Galactica''. She "remembers" how exilerating it was to get her wings and how it felt to be a member of the "family" that is the Galactica's crew, and she considers Chief [[Tyrol]] a dear friend of sorts, even though she admits she herself has never actually met him. Caprica-Sharon herself acknowledges that it's weird that she has deep-seated memories of things she fully knows she's never actually done.
*Caprica-Sharon apparently still believes that there is only "one true God" and that the Colonials "worship false idols".
*Caprica-Sharon flat out says that the Cylons know more about the Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves.
*According to Starbuck's observations, the Cylons have a plan for Caprica; "they're cleaning up the bodies, moving in the heavy machinery to repair the infrastructure..."
*Dr. Baltar has had a medical scan performed on his head, and it appears that there are no "foreign objects", like a metallic computer chip containing a copy of Number Six's mind, within it.
*Baltar has come to the realization that the copy of [[Number Six]] he sees cannot be just a hallucination, because she knows things his subconscious mind couldn't possibly know.
*This episode probably begins a few hours after [[Home, Part I]], although it could conceivably begin immediately after it.
*If the map displayed in the Tomb of Athena was from the perspective of an earth-bound viewer, the Lagoon Nebula should have been in Sagittarius, not Scorpio.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''On "Earth":''
*:Cmdr. Adama: I thought we were in the Tomb of Athena.
*:Starbuck: I think that was just the lobby.

== Official Statements ==

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns] as [[Racetrack]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as [[Doctor Cottle]]

=== Writing & Direction ===

=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.07
*Airdate Order: 7 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate:
*US Airdate: August 26th, 2005
*DVD Release:

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)|Home, Part II]]
[[Category: A to Z|Home, Part II]]

Cylons (RDM)

2005-08-25T16:53:31Z

Feldspar: /* Origins */

{{expansion}}

== Origins ==
In the reimagined series, Cylons are a creation of man, used primarily for dangerous work. The Cylons [[Cylon War|revolted]] against their masters, resulting in a costly and protracted war between them and humans. Eventually, they declared a truce and the Cylons left the Colonies to establish their own planet. They returned fifty years later and [[Cylon Attack|killed]] all but approximately 50,000 humans.

== Evolution ==
Cylons eventually evolved or created new models of Cylons known as [[Humano-Cylon|Humano-Cylons]]. The evolution is most likely a result of self teaching capabilities incorporated into the early Cylons. With the exception of a glowing red spine, it is quite difficult to determine the difference between a Humano-Cylon and a "pure" human. ([[TPTB]] have expressed that the glowing red spine was, in retrospect, a continuity error that was visually appealing at the time.) Indeed, there may be no other difference, making the humano-cylons as human as anyone else. [[Baltar, Gaius|Dr. Gaius Baltar]] was able to successfully build a [[Cylon Detector]], however, being under the influence of [[Number Six]], he has determined it is simpler for everyone "if all the results are green." An interesting new step in the evolution came about with the conception of two Cylon-human hybrids, one the child of [[Sharon Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon]], the other the child of Dr. Gaius Baltar and a copy of [[Six]].

== Religion ==

Cylons are monotheistic while their human creators are polytheistic. Cylons view the worship of multiple gods as blasphemies against their God. Like the Cylons themselves their religion seems to have evolved from its human origins. The Cylons seem to derive their faith from that of the humans, using human writings and prophesies as the biases of their own religion.

Sometimes it seems that the Cylons worship an actual entity, a physical being, possibly another Cylon (the leader of the rebellion against humanity?) but other times it seems that they are worshipping a supernatural being, something beyond creation, something that wishes for all to believe in it and love it, human and Cylon alike. It maybe both.

The Cylons seem to use their religion, their beliefs, their interpretation of the prophesies to rationalize their hatred for humanity. They seem to use it as a justification for their actions. An example of a Cylon argument may go something like this:

''God is perfect and God can only make perfection.''

''He created humanity and humanity is imperfect. How can this be? ''

''God created the imperfect humans to create the perfect Cylons.''

''Humans are only a step in God's plan. Humans are not the completed creation.''

''Once the Cylons were created there was no need for humanity.''

''The imperfection must be wiped out.''

== Models of Cylon ==

* [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurion Model 0005]] - The "basic" model from the [[Cylon War]]. When [[Number Six]] tells [[Gaius Baltar]] that the "chrome toaster" models are still in use, she may be referring to this model in particular, or its descendant, the [[Cylon Warrior]]. This model also bridges the reimagined series to the Original Series.

* [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]] - Presumably an upgraded Model 0005, with greater physical capabilities and projectile weapons built into the forearms.

* [[Cylon Raider|Raider]]

* [[Cylon Heavy Raider|Heavy Raider]]

* [[Cylon Reconnaissance Drone|Reconnaissance Drone]]

* [[Cylon Basestar]]

* [[Humano-Cylon]] - The series has established there are 12 models of Humano-Cylons. There are currently six known models. They appear to be almost entirely human in physiology, with a few exceptions: their vaguely-alluded-to [[Silica Pathways]], which enable their consciousnesses to be downloaded into Cylon computer systems upon their death, and their difficulties with sexual reproduction.
** [[Number Six]] a.k.a. [[Shelly Godfrey]] a.k.a. [[Gina]]
** [[Leoben Conoy]] - [[Mini-Series]] - [[Mini-Series]], [[Flesh and Bone]]
** [[Aaron Doral]] - [[Mini-Series]] - [[Mini-Series]], [[Bastille Day]], [[Litmus]], [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
** [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]]
** [[D'anna Biers]]
** [[Simon]] - [[The Farm]]

(if the "12 models of Cylon" means 12 total, there should be none left to be determined.)

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:TOS]]

User talk:Feldspar

2005-08-22T18:38:11Z

Feldspar:

Random question for the other contributors, occasionally, I will read something here that I think is very speculative considering what we've seen. An example is in [[Resistance]] where one of the comments is that [[Hot Dog]] is now leading combat air patrols. This is a nitpicky example but I don't recall seeing anywhere that he was merely that he was a pilot flying the patrol and as the one nearest Roslin's shuttle was the craft ordered to intercept. I suppose I could go in and remove these entries but this seems like bad form on my part. What are others thoughts on this? Is there a location that a debate on a given interpretation can be posted for input from others?

Gaius Baltar

2005-08-22T18:28:58Z

Feldspar: /* Speculation: The Real Baltar? */

{| align=right width=300 border=2 cellspacing=1 cellpadding=3 style=margin-left:15px
|-
|colspan=2 align=center|'''Key Data'''
|-
|colspan=2 align=center|'''Gaius Baltar'''
|-
|align=right width=40%|'''Position:'''
||Interim Vice President, [[Twelve Colonies|The Twelve Colonies of Man]]
|-
|align=right|'''Birth Planet:'''
||[[Caprica]]
|-
|align=right|'''Age:'''
||34 (estimate)
|-
|align=right|'''Spouse:'''
||Unknown
|-
|align=right|'''Offspring:'''
||Unknown
|-
|align=right|'''Played By:'''
||[[Callis, James|James Callis]]
|}

== Biographical Notes ==

=== Background ===

Gaius Baltar is a genius. Elegantly dressed and aesthetically handsome, with the affected humility of the truly arrogant, Baltar is a computer technology designer who has won three [[Magnate Prize]]s, and who was responsible for the design of the Colonial [[Command Navigation Program]] (CNP).

He is also deeply flawed. Beneath his outstanding abilities lurks a pathological weakness of character. Self-absorbed, sly, guileful, and utterly dedicated to his self-preservation, Baltar has carried on a two-year affair with a woman he believes to be a corporate spy - even to the extent of using code she herself wrote to overcome shortfalls in his CNP - and thus allowed her unrestricted access to some of the most sensitive systems known to humankind.

=== [[Cylon Attack]] ===
[[Image:Bsg-baltar-1.jpg|thumb|Dr. Gaius Baltar (credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]

When the Cylons launch their attack, Baltar is horrified to learn that his "corporate spy" lover is in fact a new type of Cylon - a [[Humano-Cylon]], able to mimic human beings down to the smallest detail - and that she has in fact used his CNP as a gateway to make all integrated Colonial computers and defence systems vulnerable to a Cylon virus that subverts their command and control systems.

Appalled by the fact that his sexual folly has led to the virtual wiping-out of humanity, Baltar is nevetheless determined not only to survive, but also avoid having what amounts to his treachery exposed.

Helped off of Caprica following the forced-landing of a Colonial [[Raptor]] - at the cost of one of the crew staying behind ([[Mini-Series]]), he is pleased to find himself treated with the same esteem he enjoyed back on Caprica. His only problem is that [[Number Six]], his former "lover" - herself destroyed in the shockwave of a nuclear blast - now appears to him in visions, and he cannot be sure whether this is a result of his own guilt at his actions or whether - as she initially claims - she is part of a chip that has been implanted in his brain.

Shortly after his arrival on the ''Galactica'', the fact that Cylons can look like humans becomes known to Commander [[Adama, William|William Adama]], and Batlar is put to work trying to devise a means of detecting humanoid Cylons. At the prompting of [[Number Six]], he exposes [[Doral, Aaron|Aaron Doral]] - a PR exceutive who has been co-ordinating the media coverage of the ''Galactica's'' decommissioning - as a Cylon agent ([[Mini-Series]]), using little more than invented technobabble to convince [[Colonel Tigh]]. As a result of this, and despite his protestations of innocence, Doral is put off the ship and left at the [[Ragnar Anchorage]].

Due to his unique abilities, Baltar is charged with turning his initial "[[Cylon detector]]" into a working machine capable of screening everyone in the fleet. While he at first baulks at this, events such as the sabotaging of the ''Galactica's'' water reserves ([[Water]]) force him into a position where he can no longer procrastinate over the detector - despite his fear that such a device might somehow expose him as the original traitor among humans. Gaining aid from a most unusual source - his inner Six ([[Bastille Day]]) - Baltar does eventually develop a genuine detector, which, together with his survival of an attempt to brand him as a traitor ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]), firmly establish his credentials within the fleet's hierarchy.

With this new-found trust, and despite his willingness to deliberately conceal vital information, such as [[Valerii, Sharon#"Boomer" Valerii|Lieutenant Valerii's]] true status as a [[Humano-Cylon]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]), Baltar is willing to be moved into the realm of political leadership, firstly as the Representative for [[Caprica]] on the [[Quorum of Twelve]], and then as the newly-elected Vice President within the fleet ([[Colonial Day]]).

=== Cylon Manipulations ===

The Cylons commenced their direct manipulations of Baltar some two years prior to the attack on the Twelve colonies, by bringing him into contact with their agent [[Number Six]], who instigated a torrid affair with him while at the same time using him to access vital Colonial command and control systems within the Ministry of Defence ([[Mini-Series]]).

This manipulation continued even after the Doctor left Caprica and Six behind, with Six appearing to him in a sensory perceptions, possibly through an implant in his brain ([[Mini-Series]]) or perhaps even through a series psychotic hallucinations as the Doctor struggles to reconcile his guilt and his desire of self-preservation.

Regardless of the cause of her appearances, Six has continued to both help and hinder Baltar, gradually drawing him to a point of near-open acceptance and participation in Cylon plans and activities ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). The majority of this manipulation has been through religious intrigue, linked to physical threats to Baltar's well-being. These have included:

* Using the threat of Baltar's former colleague, Dr. [[Amorak]], attempting to contact [[Roslin, Laura|President Roslin]] with information on a "traitor" within Colonial circles - and only "removing" this threat once Baltar has "repented of his sins" ([[33]])
* Using the threat of direct accusation (in the form of "[[Number Six#"Shelly Godfrey"|Shelly Godfry]]") coupled with "photographic evidence" - and only "removing" this threat once Baltar has "accept" the Cylon God into his life ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])

Baltar's near-acquiescence to the [[Cylon Religion|Cylon religion]] comes when he goes through a process similar to the [[wikipedia:Evangelicalism|evangelical Christian]] belief in "rebirth" through adult baptism. In this, the new believer in the Christian faith is baptized (generally through full immersion in water), symbolizing the "death" of the "old" self and "birth" of the "new" Christian self. In [[The Hand of God]], Baltar apparently undergoes "death" at the hands of his inner Six when she "breaks" his neck - and is "reborn" in his real life as the "instrument of God", able to point-out precisely where Colonial forces must strike in order to eliminate the Cylon base preventing them from accessing supplies of [[Tylium|tylium]].

This act leaves Baltar ripe for the final revelation of his role within Cylon expectations, when "the future" is revealed to him by Six on [[Kobol]], in the form of the first of "God's new generation of children" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Baltar is not particularly pleased by this, especialy when the fact that the first of these children is the child of he and Six is revealed to him. ([[Scattered]]) Despite this, when he believes Commander Adama is trying to kill the child, he tries to stop this. ([[Valley of Darkness]])

== Speculation: The Real Baltar? ==

For Baltar to survive the destruction of Caprica was no small matter, especially considering he was in the wake a nuclear blast and that, apparently, the body of Six that he knew was destroyed in trying to protect his in the events of the mini-series. But that blast was substantial and would tear through Six's body just as well as Baltar's. Six has had two years to gather plenty of Baltar's genetic material. Could the Baltar on Galactica be now, in fact, a Humano-Cylon?

Information from RDM indicate that, at the start of season 2, there are ''eight'' Cylon operatives that appear in the fleet. A Baltar copy would also had made matters very, very easy for the Cylons in their work to infiltrate the Colonial defenses and would be easily dropped in place to escape or happen to appear on a ship of the nascent fleet. Such clones may also explain the 'fake' recording from [[Shelly Godfrey]] of Baltar compromising Colonial computer systems in a latter Season 1 episode. Perhaps it was the Cylons who doctored what was, in reality, a legitimate recording of a Baltar clone.

On the other hand, why would Six have spent so much time talking to Baltar, and then have thrown herself in front of the blast if she'd intended for him to die?

In addition, Six has stated her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humano-Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point [[The Farm]]. If Baltar and Six were both Humano-Cylon, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Fragged/Archive 1

2005-08-03T22:41:05Z

Feldspar: /* "Apollo can fly a Raptor" comment */

== Information for episodes (used prior to airing on 29 July 2005) ==

This might be interesting to look at (involves Fragged, Resistance, Farm), but I'm too tired to write up any of this:

http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=887342&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 17:01, 9 May 2005 (EDT)

== "Apollo can fly a Raptor" comment ==

Quote: "Apollo can fly a Raptor"

Look again. He's sitting on the right, while it's well-established (see eg. Kobol's last gleaming pt. 1) that the pilot's seat is on the left (both as seen from the front).

[[User:WouterCoene|WouterCoene]] 04:07, 31 Jul 2005 (CEST)

: WouterCoene is correct. Lee is sitting in the passenger seat, which is the seat on the port side of the Raptor. (Or the "front", were we to look into the Raptor from its front.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:57, 30 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:: But look to the mini-series when Sharon leave Helo! Sharon seats on that right seat where Lee is sitting in this episode. Well, then, if pilot seat is the Left one (when looking from the front), how could Sharon leave Caprica in mini-series? or the young boy was flying that raptor? :-) -- Lordhp <lordhp (at) centrum (dot) cz> - 1.7.2005 18:20 GMT+1

::: Actually, having reviewed the footage from both the mini and [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], the cockpit controls on the port side of the raptor are also pilot controls. (See the part where Crashdown tries to contorl the descent of [[Raptor 1]] in the fourth or fifth act.) However, I believe that the primary controls seem to be seated at the starboard side. (as evidenced throughout the season) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:00, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:::: The raptor layout seems similar to that of many modern helicopters and commercial airliners. There are flight controls on both sides of the cockpit. In the mini-series and in most subsequent episodes, the pilot of the raptor is seen on the, from the pilots view, right side of the cockpit. A notable exception to this was from the mini-series. Boomer is seen leaving Caprica piloting from the left side. This seems to be for dramatic license. Boomer's position in the cockpit was necessary to allow her parting look with Helo. These controls were used again in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]] when the pilot of Raptor Baltar and Tyrol were riding in was killed. Crashdown took control of the ship and piloted it from the left seat.

::::As for the specifics of whether or not Lee Adama is capable of piloting a raptor, I suspect it's likely even though it has not yet been shown. Stepping away from the 'mechanics' of flying, it is likely out of convenience that we'll see pilots like Starbuck, Apollo and possibly even Helo pilot a Raptor quite simply because of the precedent from the original series. Apollo and his fellows were seen piloting shuttles on numerous occasions with the [[The Young Lords]] being an example. Perhaps a more relevant example would be Commander Adama's piloting of a Raptor in [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]] when he retrieves Ellen Tigh and brings her to the Galactica. There has been very little portrayed regarding Adama's duties prior to commanding the Galactica so its possible he learned another way. We do know that he was a Viper pilot and would've received similar training to Apollo's. It seems likely that this training would allow for the piloting of a raptor.--[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 18:41, 3 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== Disassembling what? Large unidentified Cylon craft ==

''After holding a funeral for Socinus and Tarn, the ground crew stranded on Kobol discover that the Cylons are cannibalizing the parts of the downed Raptor craft, and are using the parts to build an anti-aircraft battery.''

That is definitely not a Raptor. You can see on the front right portion a Cylon brain cockpit, in a similar position where it would be on a [[Heavy Raider]]. However I don't remember a Heavy Raider having those pointy pylon things up front. From the relative size of the Centurion walking next to it, this ship could be even bigger than a Heavy Raider. My guess it is those large unidentified Cylon craft seen outside the Basestar in KLG2 when Boomer's Raptor arrives. If you watch it frame by frame, you can vaguely see those pointy protrusions up front. Except for those two pointy things it kind of looks like a flying Washington Monument, with two blue flame engines burning in the back.
--[[User:Laven|Laven]] 02:12, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Then just edit the line. Seriously, you didn't need to make a big fuss over it. It's just a show.--[[User:Crazyrabbits|Crazyrabbits]] 03:17, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)

The draidus dish was salvaged from the nose cone of the Rapror, Tyrol speculated as much when he saw the dish. The ship shown need not be the raptor. Clearly the cylons had to get to the planet somehow after the base start exploded (I doubt even a Centurion is resilient enough to do a re-entry). If their ship was only for transport (a light raider or cargo ship) and didn't have ship to ship missiles canabalizing the raptor makes sense. Remember, the raptor also crashed in a relatively open area and the missile stands were in the forest, so the Centurions landed at the downed raptor, riped off the interesting stuff, flew into the forest, and begam assembly. --[[User:Shemnon|Shemnon]] 16:01, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== Deleting Justified Interpretation is Vandalism ==

User at 24.47.156.127 needs to get a grip on their editing. You do not own the sole opinion or interpretation on why Roslin experiences the ringing sensation. I will add my edit back to the page. BSG Wiki allows source-derived POV because of what it is; we are not Wikipedia. If you don't believe what is added there, add a counterpoint, but don't delete my comments again. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:44, 3 Aug 2005 (EDT)

: While I won't go as so far as to say this is an act of vandalism, I concur with this. Interpretations are permitted within reasonable bounds and fans are encouraged to analyze and come to their own assumptions. All POVs, within reason, are encouraged, as so long as each POV is treated equally and fairly. ''Now'', as for the vandalism piece, if this happens multiple times without justification, then it ''is'' considered vandalism and will be treated with a ban of 24 to 48 hours. (All depending on the evidence at hand, of course.) I have yet to instate a rule similar to Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:3RR|3 Revert Rule]], but I will institue one should it become necessary -- I just hope it ''never'', ''ever'' comes to that. Thanks for your attention. So say we all. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:43, 3 Aug 2005 (EDT)