Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Caprica (series)/Archive 1

2009-03-29T15:05:41Z

Federationrulz:

#Is this for real?
#If this is in the same continuity as the re-imagined series, we won't need a separate namespace for it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:51, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::On the first, it looks it, but, like most people, I'm more inclined to believe things I like.
::I almost posted the second on Quorum, but I decided it was a conclusion we'd all come to anyway. I'm glad I was at least partially right. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:56, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Actually, thinking it through some more, it might be handy to have a namespace for a new series - particularly for projects like the screencap categorization. I'll have to think on how they should coexist. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:00, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Just for clarity, you cannot mean an actual namespace like Battlestar Wiki, Podcast, or Sources, since RDM and TOS use the same one. Assuming you mean something like the use of "RDM" as a parenthetical disambiguation term, I disagree. It should never be necessary to disambiguate between RDM and Caprica if they share a continuity. In fact, I think TOS/Caprica name conflicts should be resolved with RDM, as Ronald D. Moore is the creative force behind Caprica, too; it would also avoid a problem if something is mentioned first in Cparica, then in RDM.
::::I think a category would be sufficient for screen capture organization. (It's clearly necessary, anyway.) --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:09, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::Yes, I meant the parenthetical suffix. What we have now is, for example, "Screen Captures (TOS)", "Screen Captures (1980)" and "Screen Captures (RDM)". The reason (1980) and (TOS) are separate is that there are numerous other continuities that branch off of TOS and don't include 1980, a concern that wouldn't be relevant for RDM and "Caprica". However, wouldn't we want a category such as "Screen Captures (Caprica)" that would be distinct from "Screen Captures (RDM)"? That's why a parenthetical designation separate from "RDM" might be useful. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:13, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::That's the category I meant. Category:CAP should probably just be [[:Category:RDM]], barring a desire to keep track of things mentioned in the re-imagined series only or Caprica only. Category:Episode Guide (CAP) would suffice for episode pages, which would also be in Category:RDM to indicate continuity, not series. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:20, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::::I think this is horribly confusing. The best thing would be to have separate abbreviations for the current series and the RDM universe as a whole, but I don't exactly feel like going through the entire wiki, moving articles, categories and links. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:23, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
Not only is it real, when I saw the first rumor I immediately took it to the "Talk to Mrs.Ron" thread, and asked. She asked Ron, who within 30 minutes responded that yes, he had already publicly pitched it to ScifiChannel and the news sites weren't making it up and it wasn't a rumor. Talk about fan-base connection! Secondly Peter, we do need a template if only for the episodes: I mean Next Generation and Deep Space Nine are in the same continuity, share several characters and even have crossover episodes, but we still use "TNG" and "DS9" stuff to sort the two out. I mean one day they might have a "Caprica" episode called "Resistance". So we have RDM "Resistance" and CAP "Resistance". It's just a convention to use for episode naming really. I mean when Galactica shows up in "Caprica" it'll be the same ship, and we'll still call it "Galactica (RDM)", yes, but "CAP" would be mostly an episode thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 02:02, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:I sincerely hope they never give an episode the same name, but I suppose it's possible. I suggest not using " (CAP)" unless that forces it, and, even then, restricting it to that specific usage. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:11, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::Well, most series tend to wind up using 3 letter abbreviations after a while. And yeah even TNG had "The Emissary (TNG)" not to be confused with the pilot episode of Deep Space Nine, "The Emissary (DS9)".--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 02:14, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

==Abbreviation==
For templating and just basic shorthand, we need an abbreviation we'll officially use for this series, just as ''The Next Generation'' is TNG, ''The Original Series'' is TOS, and Ron D. Moore's ''Battlestar Galactica'' is RDM. I think CAP would be good. Any objections?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 02:12, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:"Caprica" in full looks better and doesn't take much longer to type, while CAP is visually consistant with RDM and TOS. I don't much care one way or the other. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:14, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::I guess so, well just in case anyone wanted it. I'm not staking a big discussion on this, I'm just tossing ideas around. Whatever works out. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 02:16, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Oh I just figured this out: both "Caprica" and "Voyager" have 7 letters, but Memory Alpha uses that "VOY" abbreviation all the time. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 02:17, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::So will RDM refer to both the RDM universe and the re-imagined series, while CAP refers just to the new spinoff? That is, suppose a new character named "Rigel" shows up in the "Caprica" series. Is she "Rigel (RDM)", or is she "Rigel (CAP)"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:18, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::She'll be summarily executed and all memory of her erased. ...That is a problem, though. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:23, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
'''Thought''': There currently exist no pages requiring re-imagined series vs. ''Caprica'' disambiguation. "RDM" is currently used only for things that are part of both continuities.

'''Proposal''': "TNS" should be used for the things only belonging to the re-imagined series, i.e. Episode Guide (RDM) -> Episode Guide (TNS), Screen Captures (RDM) ->Screen Captures (TNS), and things named the same in both (like hypothetical Rigel and Resistance). "RDM" should be used for the entire continuity that Ronald D. Moore has created.

This minimizes changes, but it disambiguates what must be. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:30, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:I agree that this is probably the best way out of the problem, but I just want to emphasize how very, very much I don't want to make all these changes. We will need to carefully plan what needs to be moved and what does not, in order to avoid inconsistancies and broken links. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:37, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Well actually I think it can be simpler, and moreover that we didn't want to use "TNS" anymore because it falls back into the "it's a new show, as opposed to the old show" mentality when they're really not comparable. <br>
'''Thought''': "RDM" covers...the entire "RDMverse" for lack of a better word.<br>
'''Proposal''': We'll actually keep using "RDM" for '''almost everything''', and "RDM" is the catch-all word for the "RDMverse", HOWEVER, in cases such as "The Hand of God" which is an episode titled "RDM"....we'll just keep calling those "RDM" because there's only a few of them and they're really easy to spot. ****"CAP" would really only be used as an episode guide abbreviation, and when *citing episode articles*.
--->For example, really the only time I think we'd really use "CAP" is like this: "The Cylon War began 52 years before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies <nowiki>([[RDM]]: "[[Colonial Day]]"), and was started when a Centurion named B166ER killed his human commander ([[CAP]]: "[[Cylon Revolt!]]"</nowiki>" check out a couple of pages on Memory Alpha, ones that cover alien races that span multiple tv shows like Klingons and such: that's the format they use to cite stuff between episodes, even though they're in the same continuity. But really, we can't use "BSG" because that means "BattlestarGroup", and not "TNS" because we don't want to stress that it is the new series. They're all part of the "RDMverse", while the current show is ''specifically'' "RDM", and events, objects, and persons on "Caprica" will still be put in the "RDM" category, but episodes will have "CAP". ---->'''Unless of course, you guys want to invent the term "RDMverse" for use on the Wiki as an all-encompassing term'''--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 03:18, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:CA's solution is really the only reasonable thing to do in the long term, even if it is going to be a bit like a root canal. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:31, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::Well, we've root-canaled before. Just need more laughing gas. Other wikis ''wish'' to have problems like ours. :) I'm in general agreemnent with CA's idea, though it's going to sting. (Oh, I got the B166ER reference, Merv. It wouldn't be an inappropriate way to start the conflict in this show either, come to think of it...) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:40, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::I hope I read this right... RDM to TNS? Can I work on a bot that does this for us? Does it have to be right now also? There is no set timetable yet for this to show. I was alsmost going to recommend {{tl|delete}} very early AM. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 12:50, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::Well look I'm not so adamant about it that I'm willing to make some sort of Faustian pact in order to see it done, but I'd ''prefer'' if we didn't use "TNS" because "The New Series" makes it sound like we're trying to set it "as opposed to the Old" when really they're not comparable. I don't know what else we could come up with, but I'm working on it. Though I must say, we have several MONTHS before we get more news on this and we've got time to decide! Yes, Spencerian, other wikis do wish for this kind of spinoff info and discussion! :) Anyone ever read "Stranger in a Strange Land"? Sometimes discussions like this remind me of that thing they mention in passing, that a Martian religious epic poem got made by a nestling that turned into a non-corporeal Old One without realizing it, and thus made a work unlike any other: as a result, the Martians themselves are heavily involved in debating this "art", even HOW to judge it, and are unconcerned with the affairs on Earth in the story; and Heinlein mentions that it will take centuries before they're done discussing this vexing dilemma! :) ***Well yeah, indeed, it is ''more'' applicable than B166ER Spencerian: those bots were just used for grunt work, but according to RDM, the Cylons were used for heavy work like mining ''as well as'' soldiers for wars ''between'' the independent Colonies; like, an army of Cylons fighting for Caprica versus and army of Cylons fighting for Gemenon, stop and ask why they're being forced to kill their fellow Cylons all the time; plus they've already got weapons. Yeah, sort of like the Jaffa in that way, actually (the Goa'uld always fought wars which were essentially just petty rivalries between the Goa'uld System Lords, thousands always dying killing their fellow Jaffa for no real reason). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:01, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::First: Heinlein rules. Excellent reference.
:::Second: When I take a step back, I can see how an outsider might consider some of the discussions/debates of this nature to be silly. Perhaps as silly and arbitrary as Green vs Purple (Green rules!), Black/White vs White/Black (Original Series Star Trek), whether the Chosen realm was [[Memoryalpha:Triannon|created]] in nine days or ten days (which should be obvious to any '''rational''' observer, but the debate raged anyway). However, I'm glad that there are people who care about sweating the details like this, and thoughtful (if sometimes energetic) debate about it is one of the great byproducts of the wiki experience.
:::Lastly, and regarding the abbreviation: I don't really have anything definitive to add, but I do ask that we try to disregard the implementation details at first, and try to come up with the "right" way to do it. When I first saw this, I cringed as I anticipated mass conversion of RDM marks over to a new abbreviation. (I even considered pleading "TOS" citizenship, but I think I'm too young.) However our goal is to be 100% correct in the end, which means not having to explain to a user years from now why the abbreviations are inconsistent. Fortunately, in this case we also likely have considerable lead time, and members with the technical expertise to implement whatever high-level category/abbreviation/etc. decisions that consensus arrives at. As for TNS vs TOS, etc. Even as a heavy editor of the TOS pages, I wasn't offended by a TNS (as I often read TOS as being "The Old... Stuff" anyway). However, technically 1980 is newer than TOS, as is any show in the continuity after this one. TRS? (The Reimagined Series?) Ideally these abbreviations would only be used at intersections in namespaces, but there is also the categories to consider. Would all the new material ALSO fall under RDM (so you have an RDM-wide content area), but then also fall under their own respective categories for their series? Well... there's a lot to consider. But we've got plenty of time, and hopefully we can work smart (as opposed to hard) on this to minimize the grunt work and maximize the accuracy, concision, and organization. Green! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:38, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:I think I misunderstood: I'd prefer to use "RDM" to refer to the current BSG series, not TNS, but for destinguishing screencaps and images and such, yeah TNS is just a technicality yeah. I just don't want to see "The Hand of God (TNS)". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:04, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::How do you feel about Steelviper's "TRS" idea? I rather like it for the increased accuracy. It seems we agree on leaving stuff from the combined continuity marked "RDM" where necessary to disambiguate from TOS or 1980. I just don't think continuing to use "RDM" for episodes and screen captures of the re-imagined series is appropriate, as it uses the same symbol for two related but distinct concepts (which is even worse than using the same symbol for two completely different concepts); it also breaks on characters with the same name, as normally "Foo (RDM)" would be used for a character from ''Caprica'' and, thus, two articles would "rightfully" have the same name. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 15:06, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:Well first off, "Chosen Realm" and Enterprise as a whole are a poor source of analogy, as it was poor writing. :) --->I'd actually prefer "'''RIS'''" , "Re-Imagined Series" over "TRS" "The Reimagines Series", on account of the fact that visually "TRS" is too similar to "TOS", witha difference of only one letter. New thoughts: I think I'd go with "RIS" for the current series because it is a "Re-Imagining" of TOS Battlestar Galactica's idea about a show centered on Galactica and such, but while "Caprica" is set *IN* the "Re-Imagined Universe", it's not a *DIRECT* "not so much a "remake" as a "Re-Imagining" of the essential concept" thing. ---->Therefore, I think now, I'd want to refer to the universe as a whole as "RDM", and characters places and objects like the planet Caprica, William Adama, and the Battlestar Galactica would be "RDM", but like images and episodes (we might get a name re-used or something else) for the re-imagined version of the series centered on Galactica leadering a rag-tag fleet of survivors would be called "RIS" for Re-Imagined Series, while "Caprica" stuff would be "CAP". So use "RIS" instead of "TRS", but otherwise (if I understand what he said correctly) I think I essentially agree with CA. (Either way, I'd prefer these ideas over "TNS") You guys like that idea?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 15:27, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:: So basicly everything that is currently ''RDM'' will be changed to ''RIS'' and this new series would be ''CAP''?
:::No. RDM will continue to be used for things which pertain to the RDM continuity/universe. Only those things which need to be disambiguated from CAP within that framework will get the new tag. So, "Boxey (RDM)" will stay "Boxey (RDM)", but "Screen captures (RDM)" will become "Screen captures (TNS)" (or whatever we decide to call it.) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:49, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Right.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 17:30, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

==Suffix discusion==
(This probably deserves its own project sooner or later. We'll get around to it.)
*TNS ("The New Series"): Not good. The series isn't going to be "new" in ten years.
*TRS ("The Re-imagined Series"): Adequate, although it doesn't roll off the tongue.
*RIS ("Re-Imagined Series"): I dislike using both the morpheme and the stem for the abbreviation.
*2003 (by analogy with 1980): Confusing, since the series will continue into at least 2007.

Any other ideas? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:18, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:Well I'm favoring "RIS". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 17:30, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like [[Wikipedia:Bris|Bris]], which makes me uncomfortable. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:31, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:::To be honest, I don't think "bris" is a word your average joe on the street immediately recognizes. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 19:13, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Since I assume you're not Jewish, it doesn't surprise me that you don't think that. I am going on the record as saying "RIS" gives me the jibblies. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:08, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:I'm putting my vote in for ''TRS'', and I disagree about it not rolling off the tongue. I think it rolls off the tongue just fine. --[[User:Viannah|Viannah]] 16:29, 12 November 2006 (CST)

This is not like '''TNS:Article Name''' or is this '''Article (TNS)'''. Even I am aginist serperate namespaces for articles. I suggested another namespace for Archives, because that is reasonable, but not for "Series". I don't know of any Wikis that do this, other than doing (SERIES) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 19:37, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:Well like I said check out MemoryAlpha they do this all the time to destinguish the various series. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:00, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::Here are some of your theories put to the test.
:::*http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek:_Voyager says it's an "Article"
:::*http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jeri_Taylor says it's an "Article"
:::*http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine says it's an "article"
:::*http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Memory_Alpha:User_projects is a "Project" page.

::Which means they do not do: ''Star_Trek: Voyager Jeri Taylow''

::Oh.. and TNG goes to '''''Star Trek: The Next Generation'''''. Nothing suggests that they do it this way on MA. Other than when an episode from two diffrerent series has the same name, they do (TNG), (DS9), and so on. Check your sources before you think state a fact. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 20:39, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Calm down; he misunderstood you. As discussed above, there is some imprecision with the usage of the word ''namespace'' here. Namespaces are things like "Battlestar Wiki," "Podcast," or "Sources" that prefix a page name. "TNS," "TRS," and "RIS" would be parenthesized after the page name proper.
:::You might note the more civil tone taken in my mention of this above. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:25, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I am pretty sure he undesrtanded me because I mentioned it above in the other discussion. I have said that "TNS", "TRS" would be in () but he said they use namespaces, which he knows, because he has worked on these himself. There was was much confusing in his long paragraphs I asked twice for clairfication from him, and he never responded. I was pointing out the differences between the Wiki in which he compares to MA a little to much. I don't because it's very retrictied to what they can do since they are on a hosted "community". --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 21:44, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:I'm consciously abusing the term "namespace" here, mainly because I couldn't think of anything better. "Suffix" will work fine, though. Sorry for any confusion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:07, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::Look I think there's confusion on what's meant by "namespace" and to be honest I don't know exactly what that means; I just meant, in in-article citations, that's how we'd abbreviate it: I mean like I said above, it would be "William Adama: William Adama is the commander of Galactica during the fall of the Twelve Colonies <nowiki>([[RIS]]: [[Miniseries]]), and first joined the colonial military when Cylon Centurions destroyed his humble family moisture farm ([[CAP]]: "[[The Die is Cast]]")</nowiki> that's all, I mean I don't know what changing namespace would entail. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 22:25, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::That is display. ''Twelve Colonies ([[RIS]]: [[Miniseries]])'' It's ok to create invaild links if you need to make your point. I do it all the time. But if there was two boxey's bettween CAP and RIS, ''Boxey <nowiki>([[CAP]]: [[Boxey (CAP)|Boxey]])</nowiki>'' to ''Boxey ([[CAP]]: [[Boxey (CAP)|Boxey]])'' --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 22:34, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::::I think that unless there was a CAP miniseries as well, that wouldn't be necessary. "William Adama stubbed his toe when he was two ([[SomeCapricaEpisode]]). He would later reflect on this during a cylon attack in "[[SomeGalacticaEpisode]]"." --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:45, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Well that was just to get the ball rolling. Let's get back to figuring out the nuts amd bolts of this when we know more about episodes and casting and such.....one year from now. :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 18:21, 29 April 2006 (CDT)

==Spinoff?==
I don't think it's accurate to call this a spinoff in the article. It's not a spinoff because it contains none of the same characters or story. It's a prequel. That is like saying Voyager was a spinoff of Deep Space Nine. They are in the same continuity, but Caprica isn't a spinoff. If it were about the Caprica resistance in the current timeline, then it would be a spinoff. --[[User:Mateo|Mateo]] 09:28, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:Prequels are technically spinoffs. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 09:34, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::Generally spinoffs keep to the same timeline. You don't normally go backwards in a spinoff do you? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 09:39, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:::"Star Trek: Enterprise" was both a prequel and a spinoff. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 11:46, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::::Thanks for clarification :) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 11:48, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:I disagree. I think a spinoff has to take place within the same timeline, not just the same universe. Voyager is not a spinoff of Deep Space Nine. --[[User:Mateo|Mateo]] 12:19, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::No, and something is in the same "timeline" if it's in the same "universe". Next Generation was a spinoff of "Star Trek" the Original Series, despite being set 75 years later and featuring none of the original characters in recurring roles. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:15, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:::I meant the current time, I don't know a better word for that. --[[User:Mateo|Mateo]] 13:23, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:::[[wikipedia:Spinoff#Variants_of_spin-offs|Wikipedia says:]] "A new series is started with the same theme and existing in the same universe as the original series, but may not necessarily have the same characters. Examples of this type are the Star Trek, Stargate, Law & Order, and CSI series. These are sometimes called franchises." and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Enterprise are also spinoffs of the original series." Not that wikipedia is necessarily definitive (Oregon is "Idaho's Portugal"), but I thought it might help us refine the definition of "spinoff" that we're using. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:22, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::::The new mag. even states that the series is not final yet. It just out there. Usually a marketing ploy. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 13:32, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::In the IGN interview with RDM and Eick, it seemed to me (IMHO) that Eick was downplaying the possibility (We only have the script and that's it). --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:37, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

== The Graystone Family ==

Anyone have any theories as to who the Graystones are? The family of the inventor of the Cylons? The family of Lee and Zak's mother Caroline? Both? [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:45, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

:My initial reation was that the Graystones would be the inventors of the Cylon, definitely. Or perhaps, on the other side of the coin, activists wholly opposed to their creation. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:00, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

::Madbrood's guess is correct. According to an interview with Ron Moore on the SciFi.com website, the Greystones are a family where there is a "Microsoft"-like company that loves to make technology, regardless of whether they should. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Gods damn, I'm good :D --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:10, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

== Starting Production? ==
HHR is reporting that production will begin November, and may be shown on NBC.[http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=3488]. Don't know if this is concrete enough to post in article. I always thought the show might play better on another network. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 05:48, 8 September 2006 (CDT)

== Reality, Meet Fiction. Fiction, Reality. ==

During my morning coffee I chuckled [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article1695546.ece at this link from a UK newspaper], which is all too relevant to this article. Best quote from a reader:

<blockquote>"Seriously though given the amount of coding errors I detect and fix as an IT specialist I would be more worried that your toaster will toast and butter you instead of the bread."</blockquote>

-- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:42, 4 May 2007 (CDT) <sup>([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contrib Skillz]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|Edit Skillz]])</sup>
:I wouldn't mind being "buttered" by [[Number Eight|#8]] :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 07:47, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
::Some honey and cinnamon from the belly button of a Six would be fine too. I'll skip any "French toast" jokes. :) -- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:28, 4 May 2007 (CDT) <sup>([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contrib Skillz]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|Edit Skillz]])</sup>
:Link has died. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 11:00, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::The article's title is "Human rights for robots? We’re getting carried away" on the London ''Times'' Online site. I found a [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article1695546.ece newer link.] --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:00, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

== Sci Fi taking [[FlashGordonWiki:Flash Gordon (Sci Fi Channel)|Flash Gordon]] over this? ==

I remember someone commented along YouTube's upload of [[Razor Flashbacks]] that [[Sci Fi Channel|Sci Fi]] took ''Flash Gordon'' over ''Caprica''.. As I'd highly doubt this is true, just to make certain: simply a rumour or a little more? [[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 09:55, 17 October 2007 (CDT)

== Hope? ==

In the latest TV Guide, there's a snippet on page 28 that claims that Mark Stern (SciFi's executive VP of original programming) said, "I just got a call from NBC-Universal. They want us to take another look at the project." (With reference to Caprica.) So, there may be hope yet (in part, likely, due to the writer's strike. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:24, 15 January 2008 (CST)
: It would be interesting to see if it ever takes off the ground... On the other hand, if it starts prepping during the strike, will RDM and company be involved in it? Or will they just give the show to someone else? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 20:38, 15 January 2008 (CST)

== New information from E!Online==

Since we apparently believe this, is it appropriate to add Tamara Adama to the Siblings and Children sections, respectively, of Bill and Joseph's character infoboxes? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
: That'd work. We just need to make sure to add the proper referencing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

== Spoiler Policy for the new series? ==
So I was just wondering how far are we willing to go with information coming out of the new series before we call it a spoiler? Our spoiler policy doesn't cover new series, as dealing with an upcoming series is a first for the wiki. Personally I think the information we're getting now counts as premise, and is ok to leave without spoiler warnings, but if in the future we get more detailed information than what we have it may be spoilerific.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 00:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Good point. I think anything that deals with the plot is a spoiler, but until everything is settled there won't be episode pages. There are a few character pages, but I have no idea how to classify those. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 00:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

==Past or present tense?==
By the way, since the RDM episodes are written in present tense (regarding information on status as of the last episode), I assume all Caprica info should be written in past tense, even when the show is on air? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 15:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Um, that's tricky, and we have to think of something here, but in general, I'd say no. That's just awkward. They're the same universe, but when reading something about ''Caprica'', I'm reading from that show's POV, which is generally present tense. When including ''Caprica'' information into a TNS article past tense fits though (fixed :) ). Or for people who are dead. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::Er, you mean past tense for those latter things, right? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::But having stuff that takes place both in CAP and 50 years later in TNS in present tense, as well as some of what happens at the same time as CAP in past tense would be even more awkward to me. And some articles, like [[William Adama]] and [[Cylons (RDM)]] will have information from both shows which will feature them (more or less) equally. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:09, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, it depends on where the information is put IMO. In an article that's exclusive to ''Caprica'' or an existing TNS article? On [[William Adama]] it would naturally be past tense, but I think that reading a Graystone family article or even [[Joseph Adama]] (once he appears on the show), one would expect present tense. On the other hands, the genesis of the Cylons on [[Cylon History]] may be past tense again (that's where it gets ''really'' complicated). It's not really an issue now, but we'll have at least one episode article for ''Caprica'' and perhaps many more. And those would be present tense of course. As said, it's tricky, because we already said that the want to keep the (RDM) disambiguation for both series. But at the same time, I think there should be a different tense depending on the POV. Maybe use something like the <nowiki>{{TOS}}</nowiki> template to keep them apart when possible? A solution for William Adama specifically, could also be to create a childhood article that contains only ''Caprica'' information. But that doesn't work elsewhere. We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:18, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::By the way, in comparison, Memory Alpha uses past tense both for [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jean-Luc_Picard Jean-Luc Picard] and for [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jonathan_Archer Jonathan Archer] - even information from "current" series is written in past tense there, but episode summaries for all series are in present tense. In my opinion it makes sense for all articles except for episode ones to use past tense - especially once BSG is over. Also, it will be confusing if the [[Joseph Adama]] article has information from Caprica in the present tense and information from TNS about events that happened after Caprica in the past tense. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Memory Alpha's system is very silly. Practically everything is in the past tense, because they use an annoying pseudo-historian approach. For a long time they had stuff like "Humans were a species", but at least that is fixed by now. That really hurt. I really, really prefer that we use present tense - it just reads a lot better - but I see the issue with a larger universe like ST, and as you see the issue crops up with ''Caprica'' now. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I happen to agree with Serenity. I also happen to agree that MA's system of doing things verges on the asinine. Here's the short of it, to clarify:
* If an article is ''exclusively'' about ''Caprica'', then it should be written in ''present tense''. Same goes for articles exclusively about the Re-imagined Series.
* If an article spans from ''Caprica'' to the re-imagined series, then:
*# Events occurring ''before'' the [[Miniseries]] (timeline-wise) should be written in the ''past tense''.
*# Events occurring ''during'' and ''after'' the Miniseries (timeline-wise) should be written in the ''present tense''.
I should add that there are a few exceptions to this, such as articles on the history of the Twelve Colonies, etc, but the above works for 95% of the content we have on the wiki. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 17:38, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Are we sure we're not getting ahead of ourselves here? ==

I've been thinking, considering that all that is being produced is a pilot, is giving the casting sheets full canonical status a little presumptuous? If the series doesn't get taken up, then we might find a lot of the wiki becomes akin to [[Battlestar Galactica: Year Two proposal]] from TOS. Perhaps some qualifying tags can be added to the content. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 23:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:The pilot has been greenlit and the information from the casting sheet is likely only from the pilot. And even if nothing more than the pilot is produced, it will still have canonical status and the characters will still have articles here. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:: I find that we have topped what we can do, including the poral which I never expected to have anything other than the introduction. The things in Cylons portal gotta go. It's just got no place right now there. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 23:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::As for the Cylon portal, I guess you're right, it's too early to add it there. And if anything on the sheet is from episodes other than the pilot, we'll just note which info is from the pilot and which is/was supposed to be in further episodes after the pilot is aired. And if we consider information from Bradley Thompson and Ronald D. Moore given off-screen as canon then I don't see a reason not to consider Caprica canon even if not all of it eventually gets produced. And since the pilot has been greenlit, this will definitely be more than the Year Two proposal anyway. And the articles on new characters have the spoiler tags which warn that they may differ from the final, aired version. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not that happy about the inclusion of small details into other articles. The character articles are perfectly fine. The information is valid, but it's largely contained to a few articles. But it shouldn't be spread around freely. A lot can change until the show is aired. For example there is a script from the Miniseries that had all Colonies on one planet. And, for example, a character's home colony can easily be switched. I'm not saying that we should remove it, but further edits to non-Caprica articles should be done carefully. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:54, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Concur. Also, if we're to add content to already established articles (Joseph Adama, Tauron, etc) we must note via footnotes that the information is subject to change and is, by no means, final until it is aired. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 06:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Added the footnotes to everything I could remember. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:17, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Apropos of small info: [http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=caprica&p=1#sr Mayrs/Brandstatter] are now looking for even more actors. -- [[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 12:41, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::I am sending my face/picture/resume in. I so want to be that agent. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 14:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::Anyone with an account on that site to get more casting info? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 19:33, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

==Timeline Discrepency?==
The promo material for the series states that it starts 51 years prior to BSG itself and is set at a time before the Colonies are unified. However, this appears to be impossible: in Colonial Day it says the Colonies were unified 52 years earlier, whilst the mini-series states that the Cylon War ended over 40 years ago and then Razor says the war lasted 12.5 years, putting the start of the war between 52 and 53 years before the mini. Taking that into account, by 51 years before the events of BSG, the Colonies should already be unified and at war with the Cylons (an RDM blog post suggests that the Colonies unified because of the war). I would also assume that the Cylons would need many years (a decade or more, surely?) before the war to be fully developed and mass-produced, and their ships to be built. A more sensible starting time for CAPRICA would be 60+ years prior to BSG. A possibly explanation given on other boards is that the mechanical Cylons already exist, maybe even their war machine, and it is the events of CAPRICA that leads to the creation of more advanced AI and the Cylons gaining sentience. Whilst this wouldn't help the simple fact that they should already be at war, it would minimise the damage. Of course, the promo material also states that Graystone's work results in the creation of the very first Cylons, which would seem to rule that out. Hopefully they'll fix this with a caption or something at the start of the pilot, but at the moment it sounds like a continuity error to even dwarf Hero could be in the running here.--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 12:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, this is a bit of a timeline discrepancy here, or at least seems that way from the information available online in regard to the production. It would be worth noting, but we need to make sure we note that this is from presently available information. (Also, they may define a "year" differently after all. Interestingly enough, they did define Razor in terms of days, not a breakdown of years/months/days. So they have wiggle room there.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 14:59, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
==Number of episodes==
Official press release says that, "SCI FI Channel has greenlit production on the new original series Caprica, ordering 20 hours of the drama '''including''' the two-hour pilot,..." so it should be Pilot + 18 episodes, not 21 episodes. --[[User:Deus|Deus]] 08:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

== How is this consistent? ==

Early in BSG, somebody says something along the lines of, "The last time we saw the Cylons they looked like walking toasters." The humans were caught completely off guard by the Cylon infiltrators because nobody realized it was possible for a robot to pass as a human.

Now in this new series, set 50 years before the events of BSG, we have somebody already creating a robot that is a perfect replica of his daughter. By the time of BSG, the idea of robots passing as humans should be very old news.

How is this apparent contradiction resolved?

[[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 05:48, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

: It's complicated, and without blowing my NDA out of the water, it's not really what you think... You really have to see Caprica before you go around asking questions of badly reported information. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 06:43, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::I believe that the robot replica doesn't actually look human, only the VR avatar does. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Page for the pilot ==

How about we create a separate page for the pilot, where we can include e.g. some episode-specific cast info for minor characters? Or is it too early? Also, should we move [[Evelyn Adama]] to [[Shannon Adama]], since the latter is used in ''Caprica'' (apparently they forgot that they already gave her a name)? Or should it stay where it is for now, since that's the only official name until ''Caprica'' airs? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:For now, as we haven't a name for the pilot or other data to firm it up, let's wait a bit. We'll start getting buzzed by the Sci Fi Channel blitz by midway in the year, if not earlier, I reckon. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Well, I think it would be good to have a place for all the casting info for minor characters that would clutter this page too much. And [[Caprica pilot]] would IMHO be a good temporary name for that.
::And any thoughts on the Evelyn/Shannon thing? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Let's be bold about it and set it up, carefully. But use spoiler tags liberally and use practically no speculation since there's nothing to speculate with. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Links Between BSG (RDM) and Caprica (Series) ==

I was wondering if there was a page that covered all the references to Caprica (the series) that have appeared on BSG since the third season (i.e. the Seventh Cylon, Daniel). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Three-letter Suffix Discussion ==

If it isn't already settled, since there are so many pre-existing uses of (RDM), leave it at that for the re-imagined series and use (CAP) for ''[[Caprica]]'' and just let it go. Changing all the uses of (RDM) is unnecessary, bureaucratic make-work. Or so I think, anyway. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 23:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
:Does it need it's own suffix? (RDM) and (TOS) signify continuities, and this is the (RDM) continuity. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== ''Caprica'' and the [[First Cylon War]] ==

Certainly this is early to ask this question, and even if there's been an answer given certainly it wouldn't be cast in stone right now, but I'm curious if Mr. Moore, Mr. Eick, or anyone else has indicated whether the ''Caprica'' timeline will extend all the way into the [[First Cylon War]], or if the program will stop short of that?

I ask because there were early indications that ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise Star Trek: Enterprise]'' might have extended all the way into the Trek-continuity [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Earth-Romulan_War Earth-Romulan War], although it later turned out otherwise, and this strikes me as similar in that regard (a prequel in an established history leading up to a known war which is definitely part of in-program-universe history although not yet depicted). -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 23:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
:There's been no indication of this as of yet. It seems to be all pre-war, but no one knows what direction it might ultimately take, including the writers. I'd love to see the war featured somehow along the line, especially with [[Michael Hogan]], [[Michael Trucco]], [[Kate Vernon]], [[Aaron Douglas]], and [[Rekha Sharma]]. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== Centurion? ==

In the Caprica sneak peak titled "Two Daughters" a robot that looks remarkably like the Modern Centurion of Battlestar Galactica. It is seen for a short period 32 seconds before the trailer ends. How is this possible? -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 15:05, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Caprica (series)/Archive 1

2009-03-29T15:04:54Z

Federationrulz: /* Centurion? */ new section

Talk:Cylon Models/Archive 1

2009-03-22T05:24:54Z

Federationrulz:

{{WWW High Traffic
| site= digg.com
| url= http://www.digg.com/television/BATTLESTAR_GALACTICA_to_get_a_Fourth_Season
| date= 14 Feburary 2007
}}

==Image Requests==
#Number Six's glowing spine from the "Miniseries"
:::done. --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Valerii's viper optic arm trick from "Flight of the Phoenix"
::: [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images]] --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Thrace cutting into the downed raider's brain from "You Can't Go Home Again"
::: Done. More on [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images]] --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Closer-cropped headshots of each of the six known Cylons --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:17, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:::as you wish ;) --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 11:20, 26 February 2006 (EST)

More?
:Thanks, it looks fantastic. I only wonder if we can't find a better picture of Doral... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:19, 26 February 2006 (EST)
:: i'm really trying to. i think the previous was crappier than this one, but it doesn't make this a good one. by the way, the background color is painful! =D --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 15:32, 26 February 2006 (EST)

:::Agreed; Doral could stand to be better.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:45, 2 March 2006 (CST)

''"Organizational Relationships''

''The exact nature of the Cylon hierarchy remains unclear. The humanoid models, as the most evolved form of Cylon, are definitely in charge of the Centurions and Raiders. Caprica-Six's statement in "Downloaded" that Cylon culture is based on unity and that celebrities such as herself are something new implies that there is no single "Imperious Leader" as there was in the old series. Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positons. "''

i don't agree. can i have some other opinion about this? --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 08:02, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:What's your opinion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 08:32, 16 March 2006 (CST)
::well, i think we shouldn't say the humanoids are in charge, but thats not the main point. i think we everybody agree about the non humanoid execute orders and do most military actions, and, when with cylon agents, the last ones are in charge. but i non-humanoids are like instruments, just like animals or sensor powered machines with no full artificial inteligence.
::what i want to discuss about is "Cylon culture is based on unity".c ylon culture is actually based on the fact that enybody is fully necessary, they are all clones, when dead another one is replacing them, and their missions are minor parts from a great plan. cylons DO have a plan, we mustn't forget it, no matter it seems not (hey, they finnaly taken their planetary colony, twice xD).
::the caprica copies were uniques were living with humans, they have really decisive missions, and they were heroes. so, when introduced back on their original culture, they couldn't engage. for the cylon culture they were dangerous, as they are leading voices who can make the cylon agent having their own opinions as the caprica copies have. they are fully IA (or whatever they are) and can question, for example, the cylon atack against the colonies.
::"Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positions." we know 7 agents and are mentioned 4, thats like saying "men between 25-55 y o are usually in command of younger ones". i think thats more a personality issue rather than military. when seen, we didn't know more models. in fact, they are not only the most often seen in command positions, but also the most often seen.
::and, about the imperious leader, as i said before, their culture is about to execute plan. the fact that the audience and the colonial leaders haven't met a cylon leader yet doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. by the other hand, i'm not saying that actually does, but i think we shouldn't give information far away from the series information by the last '''aired''' episode.
::EDIT.: oh, i hadn't understood "unity" the right way. well, now i think it's confusing. not beacuse i have confused it, but because the information is one step closer to the speculation instead of actual facts. how do the agents give orders to raiders or explain missions? and when have we seen an agent giving an order to a centurion? all we know is that they execute actions. maybe they do beacuse agents can't. as agents execute missions the centurions can't. imagining is true they have no leader, why have they to have militar levels?
:: as i'm not saying it must be deleted, i think is too close to the line and has to be often revisited. thats why i've asked for you opinion.
::btw, has anybody found a better Doral pic? i'm still loking for, but it's not easy! a Cavil one was earlier found! xD
::have a nice day! --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 09:23, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:::The "unity" quote is based on dialogue from "[[Downloaded]]", so I consider that to be fairly reliable. As for "Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positions," we have the following evidence:
:::*Miniseries: High ranking Six on Armistice Station, Eight at Ragnar Anchorage.
:::*Bastille Day, Flesh and Bone, Litmus, Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down: High ranking Five and Six oversee Cap-Valerii's mission.
:::*Final Cut: High ranking Threes, Fives, Sixes and Eights view classified documentary footage
:::*Downloaded: High ranking Three assigned to observe Caprica-Six and Boomer.
:::By contrast, we have not seen Conoy, Simon or Cavil receiving classified information, overseeing other cylons, or delivering orders. I think the statement as written is pretty fair. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:54, 16 March 2006 (CST)

==Cylon Hierarchy==
It says we've seen 3, 5, 6, and 8 in command, but frankly, we've seen at least one instance of each model having commmand. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006

==Merging?==
This thread is very complete on every aspect of the Cylons. I'm proposing we merge it with the "Cylons (RDM)" thread, and rename it as such, since it seems to me to explain the Cylons quite well.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006
:Actually it originally ''was''; the "Cylons" article, in it's current form, is two paragraphs as an intro and a link box to subsections; originally it WAS all of the info from this page, and then some--->I don't know if I agree with this system or not, and I have been pondering it for some time. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:39, 21 March 2006 (CST)
::Well, if it goes down to some sort of vote, I for one prefer to have this as the main Cylon artice (for the species). .--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006
:::It seems to me that a short history article would be a better choice for the main page of the Cylons series. Perhaps we could just have blurbs farmed out to each subsidiary article with a "see also" line. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:20, 22 March 2006 (CST)

==Known (human) models==
Seven (7) are pictured. Isn't there another male model, as seen in the opening credits? (cut from a scene in, I believe, the miniseries--been a while since I've seen the mini)... where we see a group of several human-Cylons walking in profile. Or was that Leoben? I might be wrong, but I thought it was another actor. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 06:55, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
:The only male cylons visible in the mini are Leoben Conoys and Aaron Dorals. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:32, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
::I stand corrected. It was indeed Leoben. My bad.--[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 12:29, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

== Re: Centurion Model 0005 ==

''"it is most likely that she is referring to the modern Centurions, which seem to have replaced them entirely"''

Isn't this subjective speculation? Is there any evidence that the old "toasters" can't still be walking around? In fact, seems like I read somewhere that they're supposed to show one (or more) of the old models in Season 3... (Yes, this is speculation on my part as well. Would appreciate any clarification anyone can provide. I resist reading spoilers.) --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 12:37, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

:We are fairly sure that the old Centurions have been replaced and no longer exist, and we're going to retain that for the time being. I asked in Ron Moore's blog about this but he hasn't made a new one since April, and I think he's the only one that knows :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:09, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
::''If'' they are shown in series three ''then'' we will update the wiki ;) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 14:11, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
:That article could really use some TOS love. It's perfectly adequate for their RDM role (especially if we never see one again), but considering how important they were to the original series there isn't much material on them. I may have to hunt up some TOS screenshots and put together more material on the old tin cans... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:49, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
::Rather than putting them both on the same page, there's enough material on both to support separate pages, so I would suggest [[Cylon Models (RDM)]] and Cylon Models (TOS).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 09:12, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Actually, I wasn't suggesting a TOS verision of Cylon Models (though that information seems to be present in a "summary form" at [[Cylons (TOS)]].) I was more mentioning a desire to add more content about the TOS Centurions on the Centurion 0005 page (unless the content becomes enough for THAT page to have to split).--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:29, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
::::We shouldn't add TOS info about the original-model Centurions, even though they are physically identical: only what has appeared on screen in the RDM continuity. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 10:00, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::Well, that sounds like a project then. Right now the 005 article has both TOS and RDM continuity categories, and all links to the old-style toaster point to that article. It sounds like you're suggestions a Centurion (TOS) maybe, and then point all TOS/1980/etc. references to that page. There's less than 100 links to 005, so it's not insurmountable... just more than I plan on taking on today. (Creating the TOS article, creating any disambig pages (if necessary), changing links/redirects to point to new article.) I'll make a note about it on the 005 page so I don't forget, though. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:20, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
::::::I'll get on that.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 10:31, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
== Dean Stockwell Interview ==
In Battlestar Magazine, Dean Stockwell is reported saying
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" class="spoiltext_border"
! {{spoilerplate}}
|-
| id="spoil-text" class="spoiltext_box" | Yeah, absolutely. When I was up there last time, the writer passed around a document to all of the Cylons in the cast that I got to read. It said very specifically that there are seven - [let's] call them the significant seven - Cylons, and then there's five others ones that are in this mystery mode. No one knows where they are, what they are, and what they are up to. They've so scretive that they've programmed the significant seven so that they can't even think about the other five. They can't have a thought enter their head about these other five [laughs]. I turned out to be number three. Brother Cavil, of the significant seven. I'll be back!

|}

Can anyone confirm that before the wiki is updated with the info? I had heard this before, but had not seen any proof. Edit: Really could affect Cylon Agent Spec. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:43, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

:If Stockwell's reference number is to be taken as correct, it screws up what we know of the Numbers of models. I doubt that it's right, and it DOES really make future Cylon reveals scarier than ever. I'll see if I can find the issue and date to confirm. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:34, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::Got to thinking about this. Maybe it's kinda like a "bible" doc and til it happens onscreen, it's not "canon". Just a thought. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:20, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::: Grace Park also said in an interview that the Significant Seven are programmed not to think about the Final Five. It is a bible document, but they are doing the storyline with the assumption that it's true. It does explain why we will only see seven models included in the voting process during the occupation. Also, a spoiler for Taking A Break From All Your Worries includes a scene where Baltar flashs back to asking D'anna if she's seen the five models that no one else has seen. It's still subject to change, and we shouldn't include it on the wiki before we see it, but I think it will probably turn out this way. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:55, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Yeah, we've known about this little piece of info for a while, but I'm confused why he claimed to be "number three", while that number has already been assigned to the D'annas....Probably a mistake, which is tantalizing since I was hoping he would reveal his number in the interview. Oh well. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:25, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::Another possible explanation is that Cavil was the third of the seven listed. If they're listed in numerical order, this would mean that Cavil is number 4 and either 1 or 2 is either Leoben or Simon. An alphabetical listing could also put Cavil third in the list depending on which names the other agents are listed under. [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:58, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Bad Link ==

The External link in reference to the twelve cylon models seems in err. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 23:44, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

==Lack of Birth==

Since Cylons can't give birth, does that mean that if a Cylon dies it's a '''permanent decrease''' in their population? If so we should add that. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 18:19, 29 November 2006 (CST)
: This is really nebulous. Cylons of the same model are capable of sharing their memories, so it could be said that a Cylon never "dies". On the other hand, now that unique Cylon personalities are emerging (Athena, Boomer, Caprica Six, Biers), it can be argued that Cylons can die. So it's really up in the air at this point.-- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 09:37, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Ok, but actually I was referring to numbers. For all intended purposes, lets say there were 2,000,000 biological Cylons at the time of the Miniseries. If that one Leoben had truly died (permanently) at Ragnar Station, that would decrease it to: 1,999,999 biological Cylons at the time of the first few episodes. Then let's say 10,000 died during the Battle of the Resurrection Ship: 1,989,999 biological Cylons and so on. Sorry if this is getting confusing but, yeah I'm just talking more about loss in numbers than loss of memories. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 06:10, 2 December 2006 (CST)
:No, they can make new copies again and again and again, their ability to do so is unlimited. It is only natural birth that they cannot achieve, but again, they can make many many copies. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:00, 2 December 2006 (CST)
:: Well, they can make a copy of the same ''basic'' model. But, when we're talking about "death", it has a different meaning to the Cylons. After each Cylon has been created from a master template (for lack of a better term), each Cylon goes on to have different life experiences. So if their husk is killed and aren't resurrected, then that is a "death", since you can't look at it like a mere numbers game. Also, do note that both the raiders and baseships are living organisms after a fashion as well, and are thus alive (though domesticated). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:08, 2 December 2006 (CST)

== Baltar's glowing Neck or Spine? ==
Even if that spine-glowing is considered a continuity error now - does anyone else recall a very short scene in the miniseries or season one where baltar on caprica has some similiar glow on his neck? It could have been a reflection (from Caprica-Six?) or his spine glowing but covered by his shirt, only the neck-part visible, although I recall it having more of a left-to-right rather than bottom-to-top-motion. Didn't find the scene yet, but i'm quite sure it exists, and it keeps puzzling me ;) --[[User:Cohan|Cohan]] 11:45, 3 January 2007 (CST)
:I think its kinda been retconned. It only happened once in the miniseries (six) and again in the first season in a deleted scene (caprica-sharon). I certainly dont recall baltar glowing in any way. I think you just have to pretend it didnt happen, like the zat guns on SG-1 that can make things vanish after three shots. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:30, 25 January 2007 (CST)

I haven't read the spoiler above, so I don't know, but... I think it's visible that from the picture of the final five in this article that Baltar is not one of them. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, they're all never before seen characters. Anyone have any thoughts on this? [[User:Thorn|Thorn]] 13:52, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:In the actual episode the Final Five are solid glowing white with no identifiable features, so Three's sketches are still the only reliable source we have on what the Final Five look like. - [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 21:00, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:I wouldnt read too much into the promotional image of the final five, Thorn. In the episode their faces are completely blanked out. The ones in the promo image are probably just extras and are not actually representative of the actual five. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:34, 26 January 2007 (CST)

==Numbering==

Is there a reason why the show hasn't gotten around to giving us the model numbers for Leoben, Simon and Cavil? They've only bothered with number 3,5,6 and 8. Outside of the episode Downloaded I don't remember the Aarons or Sharons being refered to by their cylon numbers. The only time we hear their numbers it seems to be when addressing Six or Three. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 30 January 2007.
:Because, contrary to theories floating around, there is no meaning behind them. It's just a fan obsession --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:33, 31 January 2007 (CST)
::And, if they decide to add meaning to the numbers at some point in the future, this gives them the freedom to assign the known but unnumbered agents numbers consistant with that meaning. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 18:24, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:::Actually I don't think they have much freedom at all. Six and Eight seem to be very important yet their numbers are much higher (considering there are 12 in total). Six was only named as such as a homage to The Prisoner, it would be incredibly hard to number the cylons when you have so many which are already fixed. Is Simon more important than Sharon? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:23, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::::The highest or lowest numbered models wouldn't necessarily be the most important or highest ranking. The low numbers and high numbers could represent two different extremes, with the numbered models (except for Three) being more balanced. The numbers could also represent paired opposites, or various stages of life. Even if they decide to go with a linear ranking, there's enough unassigned numbers that Five, Six and Eight could be the three highest or lowest ranking unboxed models excluding the Final Five. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:51, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:::::The Final Five aren't boxed, per the podcast. The numbers have no coorrelation to anything yet revealed that I can think of, so any further speculation on the matter is just that, and unsourced to boot. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:07, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::::::Yeah, I meant that Three won't be ordering anyone around because she's boxed and the Final Five won't be ordering around any of the known agents because they're off doing their own thing, whatever that is. Anyway, my point was that they don't really have an incentive to number Cavil, Leoben or Simon right now, but there is a small incentive not to number them without a good reason. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)

== Human/Cylon hybrids ==

"With a single exception, no human-model Cylon has been able to conceive a child (The Farm). It is impossible for two Cylons to reproduce with each other, and as result the Cylons began cross-breeding experiments with humans (who can reproduce easily), which so far has only resulted in the pregnancy of the Caprica-copy of Sharon Valerii. Cylon beliefs attribute this to the apparent inability of Cylons to feel love, which they believe to be a crucial element of the process."

Given the revelations in Crossroads II, I believe that this should be updated to include mention of Nicholas Tyrol, son of Galen and Cally Tyrol. This shouldn't be too much of a spoiler, given that Galen is already revealed as a Cylon on this page.--[[User:TyliumAnalyst|TyliumAnalyst]] 22:59, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

: Yes, I definitely agree with you. If you want to make the edit, feel free. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 07:17, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
:Done. In general, don't hesitate to fix such relatively small things. If you screw up in some way, people will tell you and things can easily be reverted. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:42, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

== The four revealed last season ==

I was just thinking that this page should be rewritten to be less "sure" of who the four most recently revealed Cylons are. We don't really know for sure that they ARE Cylons; they just ''think'' they are. Maybe they've all been altered somehow by the Cylons and that's why they're hearing the radio transmissions. Who knows. There are some other reasons to doubt it. For example, that would make Tyroll's baby a hybrid too.

I'm not saying we should remove them from the list. But there should be a footnote or something. I'll leave that up to someone else, since this is my first time to this site, and I have not yet learned your customs. :)
:--[[User:BevansDesign|BevansDesign]] 21:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
::Ronald D. Moore, the executive producer of the show, has confirmed in an interview that the four really are Cylons. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 21:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
:::In one of the clips from the upcoming season, a Raider seems to "recognize" Anders when they are face-to-face in a space battle, which seems to indicate that their "awakening" has also unlocked some of their inherent Cylon characteristics. Although an actual resurrection would be pretty definitive proof, we have this ... and Ron D. Moore :) -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 22:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

== Organizational relationships ==
The current version of this section isn't completely accurate. The [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005#Guardians|Guardians]] are / were outside the main Cylon hierarchy. The mysterious programmers also seem to be outside of the hierarch (assuming that they are Cylons, and that they're still around). -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

== Thirteenth Tribe Centurions ==

Hello. I just finished adding to the Earth Centurion Model when I noticed something: the Earth Centurions don't have an article, whereas every other type of Cylon does, including Number Seven. What is the amount of information required to be able to make an article? Is the information we have enough for theis model to get its own article? -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 11:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Samuel Anders/Archive 1

2009-03-17T13:59:17Z

Federationrulz: /* Hybrid Pic */ new section

== How many are there? (Just nitpicking) ==

Rather than "''the'' resistance group on Caprica," maybe "''a'' resistance group" would be better?

Is there a definitive statement made in "Resistance" or "The Farm" that Anders' resistance group is the only one on Caprica? If there isn't, there arguably may be others well outside the Delphi region and on other continents, with no way of knowing that other cells even exist, much less communicating with them. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 14:57 EST, 9 Nov 2005

:My two cents...obviously Caprica is a big world with many places to hide or avoid the initial attack, as the Buccaneers did. And the Cylons obviously found plenty of survivors (albeit female--they may have culled the males or run human male farms!) to fill their farms. Despite the saturation nuclear bombing of the Twelve Colonies, large groups of humans are easy to nail, but individual humans are harder, and with their occupation and unknown plans for the Colonies themselves, the Cylons are not going to further destroy a colony with more nukes just to get rid of a handful of meddlesome humans. So they have to resort to eradication of these human "insurgents" as does our US military with managing Iraqi/Muslim/Ba'thist extremist insurgents. This takes time. Similar things are likely happening on the other colonies, given the laws of averages and luck, but since we don't know of them, and because ''Galactica'' only knows of the one resistance movement, IMHO, it's appropriate now to say "the resistance" or for clarity, "the Caprica resistance." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:17, 9 November 2005 (EST)

::There are probably scattered other holdouts of humans, of course. This is just the one closest to Delphi, which was one of the handful of cities ''intentionally'' spared from nuking (I hate it when newbies on the messageboards keep going "Why is Delphi still there? That's a plot hole!" when RDM said in the commentary that it was intentional, just unexplained. Anyway, RDM has said that there were farms for both men and women, and on all colonies not just Caprica. Of course, none of them work (though they keep trying). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:32, 9 November 2005 (EST)

== Name ==

I don't doubt that Anders means "man", but doesn't Anderson < Andrew's Son? Whether Andrew < Ander is another matter, but I thought this worth mentioning. Is this being too nitpickey? --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:34, 28 December 2005 (EST)
:Andrew and Anders both come from the greek word ''Andros'' which means "man." According to what I've read, Anders (the first name anyway) is the Scandinavian form of Andrew. Andros is where we get things like Alexander (Defender of Man) and Android (robot in form of man). So, they both mean the same thing anyway. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 00:42, 28 December 2005 (EST)
::What's really coincidental is that I used to have a pet salamander by this name (a pun on "salamander"; there were worse ones, like Sir Isaac Newt, Silly Amanda, Newt York, Olivia Newt John, Fig Newt, etc. - I had about 20 of them, and they all had names like this, with Samuel Anders and Sal M. Anderson being pretty much the only plausible-sounding ones). Anyway, I totally cracked up when I heard this character's name. Every time I see him I think of a wiggly amphibian. — <b><span style="font-family:Tahoma;">[[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]</span></b> [[[User talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]] [[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|cont]]] <b>‹(-¿-)›</b> 10:04, 8 February 2008 (CST)

== Main Image ==

Perhaps it should be changed to one of Anders in uniform, now that he's joined the service? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:28, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
: Agreed. Particularly since the picture's a bit fuzzy. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 11:10, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
:: I would go about finding a picture and making it the right size and putting it on Battlestar Wiki myself, but I have no idea how to do that. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:51, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
::: I, or someone else, could pull the picture from one of the later episodes. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:04, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
:::: Thank you. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:18, 4 May 2007 (CDT)

The lighting of the new one could be better. It's hard to see his eyes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:37, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
: Yeah, I definitely agree with you. However, the best screencap I could find was the one where Anders didn't have his shirt on (during his makeout session with Tory in the pilot's bunk). Otherwise, everything with a uniform is either in the darkness of the Big G, or in extreme close ups that, while show his eyes, don't show that he's got a uniform. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:51, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
:: So no one's made any screenshots where he's in the relatively well-lit hangar deck (pre-blackout) and the closeup isn't extreme. Darn. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:49, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
::: Problem is that most of the shots in the hangar bay were of side profiles, or were "over shoulder" or obfuscated due to the presence of people and the like. I think the best chance would be in Crossroads, Part I, in Joe's Bar, but since I don't have that episode, I wouldn't be able to capture anything. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 20:18, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
:::: I see. It would be very helpful of someone who has that episode, and knows how to make screen captures, to do so. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:05, 4 May 2007 (CDT)

== Hybrid Pic ==

Now that Anders has been plugged into Galactica, should we get a picture of him in his "hybrid form?" -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 13:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Dionne Tyrol/Archive 1

2009-03-06T00:12:21Z

Federationrulz:

How is she a human/Cylon hybrid if both Tyrol and Boomer are Cylons? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:20, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

She wouldn't be half-cylon if she actually existed, but it is suggested that 'she' would have been considered Hera's half-sister. Can we get any pics of her? -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 00:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Dionne Tyrol/Archive 1

2009-03-05T23:07:38Z

Federationrulz:

Talk:Someone to Watch Over Me/Archive 1

2009-02-28T17:05:58Z

Federationrulz:

{{newsection link}}

==Title==
Confusion! Episode 417 is ''Someone to Watch Over Me''. Episode 416 is ''Deadlock'' [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:I'll change it. And the admins always watch the recent changes. So you don't have to post stuff like this on all episode pages :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::Noted. Galactica Sitrep also has a full list for all the writers and directors as well.--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 12:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

== Gaeta ==

Gaeta was executed in [[Blood on the Scales]], yet he is listed as guest in this episode. Do we have a definite source for this?
:Just because he's dead, doesn't mean he can't return as a hallucination, or flashback, or dream, or vision etc, like [[Elosha]], Adama's wife, [[Ellen Tigh]] (but that was before we found out she was a Cylon though). -- [[User:Matthew R Dunn|Matthew R Dunn]] 12:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
:PS, after looking through the page history, [http://uk.tv.ign.com/articles/877/877683p1.html this is the source]. -- [[User:Matthew R Dunn|Matthew R Dunn]] 12:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
:after airing, i didn't see Gaeta. did i miss him?

== Projections ==

Now that we are aware Cylons can project non-existent people, do these "imaginary people" get their own article, or a new page be made for all projections? -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 17:05, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Someone to Watch Over Me/Archive 1

2009-02-28T17:04:24Z

Federationrulz: /* Projections */ new section

Talk:No Exit/Archive 1

2009-02-20T17:38:15Z

Federationrulz:

==Call Sheet==

Can anyone please sharpen the image of the sheet and put the contents here? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

: Well, to me the picture looks like it has been deliberately modified to be unreadable, as only the set details are blurry. [[User:Raziel Anarki|Raziel Anarki]] 17:30, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

==Ellen's resurrection==
How can Ellen download without resurrection technology? Does that mean that Ellen is not in the womb of Caprica 6? (Or does Caprica 6 and/or child die forcing resurrection?) Which basestar has she resurrected on?
[[User:Seven of Nine|Seven of Nine]] 12:25, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
:Ellen died and resurrected at the time of the exodus from New Caprica, months before the destruction of the Resurrection Hub. Don't forget, they do flashbacks that follow the events that happened since, such as the algae planet. -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 10:34, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

==Plot hole==
Found a major plot hole regarding the Journey of the Five. Anders states that they traveled at near-light speed from Earth to the Colonies, resulting in a time dilation effect. Time passed slower aboard the ship than it did in real space. Since Earth was nuked 2000 years ago, then that means 2000 years passed in real space while a considerably shorter amount of time passed aboard the Five's space ship. We don't know the exact amount of time that passed aboard the ship, but it is safe to assume that it would have been considerably less than 2000 years. The question becomes: how far does the ship travel? If the time dilation effect results in 2000 years passing in real space, then the Five space ship must have traveled at most only a few light years to reach the colonies. If, for example, only 5 years pass aboard the Five ship and they are traveling close to light speed, then they can only travel a bit less than 5 light years to reach their destination. Which means the Colonies and Earth are *much* closer to each other than the series has let on. Even given a roundabout journey by the RTFF, the distance to the Algae Planet alone would have to be very close in order for the Five to stop and plant clues there, to say nothing of the virus probe or the possibility that the Five built the Star Map on Kobol as well.

[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 08:26, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
:The ship you mentioned could be sent on its journey years before the Earth's nuclear holocaust. We could even see Allen telling her husband he would be resurrected in one flashback of the holocaust. So this Final Five resurrection ship was quite obviously already on its way to the 12 colonies by the time of the holocaust. A Problem may it be that we have no idea how the final five back on Earth have ever come to acknowledge the existence of Cylons made by the twelve tribes or rather the fact that by the time they are actually going to be constructed by the twelve tribes. -- [[User:FNj|FNj]] 14:28, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

:Are you certain you have the right reference frame? It seems to me that if 2000 years passed outside of a ship traveling close to c, then it would have traveled a significantly high fraction of 2000 light years. If we could launch a ship to Alpha Centauri at 99% of c, then those of us on Earth would see it arrive in around 5 years (leaving aside time for acceleration/deceleration), not 100, 1000, or 2000 years. However, anyone on board might only experience a few months. -- [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 16:39, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I ran the problem past a physicist and this is what I got:

The ship from Earth, travelling at near-light speed, takes 2000 years to travel to the Colonies. Anders says they resurrected onto a ship that they built in orbit of Earth, implying that it was still in orbit at the time of the Earth holocaust. Even if the ship had a head start, it would only be a few light years from Earth when the holocaust took place, given that the resurrection project would have to have been completed and installed aboard the ship before it left, and the Five all worked on the project.

At .99 c, approximately 250 years would pass aboard the Five's ship, while 2000 years would pass in real time. Given the fact that they had resurrection technology, it's easily possible for the Five to survive the trip.

The continuity problem is that Galactica's journey to Earth is incredibly roundabout, even given a detour to Kobol. It's 13 000 light years from the Algae planet to the Ionian Nebula, while Kobol is only 4000 light years from the same place. (It took light from the first supernova 4000 years to reach Kobol.) Given the other stops Galactica took along the way, they were almost going around in a huge circle (like going from Los Angeles to New York by way of Argentina).

[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 19:08, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Seems to me that since we don't know the distances involved, the speed at which the ship was travelling, or the relative positions of the star systems in question it is useless to speculate on this point. For instance, how do you know they didn't run into the Colony Cylons part way there (and jumped with them the rest of the way to 12C)?

Actually, it's pretty simple to figure out the distance the Five ship traveled simply by taking the information the series has already given us. A light year is the distance light travels in a year. The Earth Holocaust took place approximately 2000 years before the First Cylon War. We know the Five left Earth at the time of the Holocaust and made contact with the Colonies (or cylons from the colonies) while the war was going on. Anders says they were traveling fast enough for relativistic effects (shortening of time aboard the ship), which implies a speed close to the speed of light. Traveling at near-light speed for 2000 years means you travel a bit less than 2000 light years by definition.

If the Five made contact with the Cylons first, then that implies that the Cylons had explored a *very* long distance from the colonies and were practically on top of Earth at the time. We know that 13000 light years is quite a long distance to travel for Galactica, so 2000 light years is not much of a distance...a few months travel at worst.

:Of course, the fact that they were backtracking the path of their ancestors could have slowed them down significantly. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:55, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

==Nature of the Cylons==

Seems significant to me that the Cylons seem to follow similar patterns on Earth as well as the 12 Colonies. Did mech Cylons occur on Kobol? Also, what became of the Eath mech Centurians? Wouldn't they set out to hunt down the Colonists? What of any survivors from the hybrid basestar in Razor?

I also wonder about Cavil. Why did he react so strongly to the removal of the telencephalic inhibitors from the Centurians? I would assume that he would feel affinity for them being that he desires to be mechanical in nature.

Speaking of the Centurians.... just what do THEY think of all this? I hope the writers have addressed some of these points!

==Cavil and the Lords of Kobol==

In the analysis of the episode we should consider adding something mentioning the parallel between Cavil/Ellen's sexual relationship with the kinds of relationships that the Lords of the Kobol had among themselves (mainly Zeus and Hera who were brother and sister '''AND''' husband and wife. This also counts for Saul/Caprica Six and Tyrol/Boomer. There is an interesting irony in how Cavil (an atheist) and Ellen (a monotheist) manage to mirror the behavior of polytheistic deities that they have both rejected. [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 05:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe they actually ARE the Lords. That would clear it up a lot. We shall see anyway. [[User:FNj|FNj]] 16:31, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

==Broke down the Questions==
There were so many questions in the article that I decided to categorize them all to make the section more organized. -- [[User:GreenDalek|GreenDalek]] 20:20, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

==Centaurans?==
Ellen and Cavil talk about "Centaurans". I'm not sure if this refers to the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]] or the [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]]s, and the podcast doesn't clarify it. Does anyone have a source which can clarify this? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 06:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
::Not Centaurans, Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 06:39, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

==Saul's war veteran story a forgery==
Episode page says "Saul Tigh's military history in the First Cylon War is revealed to be a fabrication". I seem to have missed that hint. Where was it? [[User:Keragez|Keragez]] 16:28, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
:Sam said that Saul was introduced into Colonial space (where he met Adama on that freighter from the "Scattered" flashbacks) with fake memories a few years after the war. This is corroborated by the Mottesheard and Espenson interview. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

==Dealino?==
Who is Dealino (in the cast list)? I don't recall such character. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 19:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

==Kobol comic==
In the Chicago Tribune interview, Jane Espenson says: "Jane: The dates and sequence of the events surrounded Pythia and Kobol are going to be explored, I understand, in a comic book being written by Seamus Kevin Fahey [who is a "Battlestar" writer] and David Reed."

Does it mean that this comic is RDM-canon, and not just separate continuity like other comics? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 19:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

*This is a reference to the "The Final Five" 3 issue comic that will start releasing issues on March. You can see some of the covers and cover art have already been revealed [http://www.dynamiteentertainment.com/htmlfiles/c-Battlestar_Galactica_Final_Five.html]. As Espenson says, and the writers during an interview, the fact that they had inside knowledge since before anyone else did and the cooperation of writers from the show does lend legitimacy to whatever they show us, and it will most likely tie very closely to the show continuity. I think we might have to wait for more interviews and information regarding the comic series are revealed, but they certainly are rather close with the show. Still, one never knows what sort of things they could do that might differ from the show, so at this point it's hard to judge. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

== Ellen's centurion ==

Does anyone know why the centurion did not do anything while Ellen and Sharon get into the raptor and takes off? Is it the same Centurion she meets at the beginning? -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 17:38, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:No Exit/Archive 1

2009-02-20T17:18:18Z

Federationrulz:

Talk:No Exit/Archive 1

2009-02-20T17:17:39Z

Federationrulz: /* Ellen's centurion */ new section

==Call Sheet==

Can anyone please sharpen the image of the sheet and put the contents here? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

: Well, to me the picture looks like it has been deliberately modified to be unreadable, as only the set details are blurry. [[User:Raziel Anarki|Raziel Anarki]] 17:30, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

==Ellen's resurrection==
How can Ellen download without resurrection technology? Does that mean that Ellen is not in the womb of Caprica 6? (Or does Caprica 6 and/or child die forcing resurrection?) Which basestar has she resurrected on?
[[User:Seven of Nine|Seven of Nine]] 12:25, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
:Ellen died and resurrected at the time of the exodus from New Caprica, months before the destruction of the Resurrection Hub. Don't forget, they do flashbacks that follow the events that happened since, such as the algae planet. -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 10:34, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

==Plot hole==
Found a major plot hole regarding the Journey of the Five. Anders states that they traveled at near-light speed from Earth to the Colonies, resulting in a time dilation effect. Time passed slower aboard the ship than it did in real space. Since Earth was nuked 2000 years ago, then that means 2000 years passed in real space while a considerably shorter amount of time passed aboard the Five's space ship. We don't know the exact amount of time that passed aboard the ship, but it is safe to assume that it would have been considerably less than 2000 years. The question becomes: how far does the ship travel? If the time dilation effect results in 2000 years passing in real space, then the Five space ship must have traveled at most only a few light years to reach the colonies. If, for example, only 5 years pass aboard the Five ship and they are traveling close to light speed, then they can only travel a bit less than 5 light years to reach their destination. Which means the Colonies and Earth are *much* closer to each other than the series has let on. Even given a roundabout journey by the RTFF, the distance to the Algae Planet alone would have to be very close in order for the Five to stop and plant clues there, to say nothing of the virus probe or the possibility that the Five built the Star Map on Kobol as well.

[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 08:26, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
:The ship you mentioned could be sent on its journey years before the Earth's nuclear holocaust. We could even see Allen telling her husband he would be resurrected in one flashback of the holocaust. So this Final Five resurrection ship was quite obviously already on its way to the 12 colonies by the time of the holocaust. A Problem may it be that we have no idea how the final five back on Earth have ever come to acknowledge the existence of Cylons made by the twelve tribes or rather the fact that by the time they are actually going to be constructed by the twelve tribes. -- [[User:FNj|FNj]] 14:28, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

:Are you certain you have the right reference frame? It seems to me that if 2000 years passed outside of a ship traveling close to c, then it would have traveled a significantly high fraction of 2000 light years. If we could launch a ship to Alpha Centauri at 99% of c, then those of us on Earth would see it arrive in around 5 years (leaving aside time for acceleration/deceleration), not 100, 1000, or 2000 years. However, anyone on board might only experience a few months. -- [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 16:39, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I ran the problem past a physicist and this is what I got:

The ship from Earth, travelling at near-light speed, takes 2000 years to travel to the Colonies. Anders says they resurrected onto a ship that they built in orbit of Earth, implying that it was still in orbit at the time of the Earth holocaust. Even if the ship had a head start, it would only be a few light years from Earth when the holocaust took place, given that the resurrection project would have to have been completed and installed aboard the ship before it left, and the Five all worked on the project.

At .99 c, approximately 250 years would pass aboard the Five's ship, while 2000 years would pass in real time. Given the fact that they had resurrection technology, it's easily possible for the Five to survive the trip.

The continuity problem is that Galactica's journey to Earth is incredibly roundabout, even given a detour to Kobol. It's 13 000 light years from the Algae planet to the Ionian Nebula, while Kobol is only 4000 light years from the same place. (It took light from the first supernova 4000 years to reach Kobol.) Given the other stops Galactica took along the way, they were almost going around in a huge circle (like going from Los Angeles to New York by way of Argentina).

[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 19:08, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Seems to me that since we don't know the distances involved, the speed at which the ship was travelling, or the relative positions of the star systems in question it is useless to speculate on this point. For instance, how do you know they didn't run into the Colony Cylons part way there (and jumped with them the rest of the way to 12C)?

Actually, it's pretty simple to figure out the distance the Five ship traveled simply by taking the information the series has already given us. A light year is the distance light travels in a year. The Earth Holocaust took place approximately 2000 years before the First Cylon War. We know the Five left Earth at the time of the Holocaust and made contact with the Colonies (or cylons from the colonies) while the war was going on. Anders says they were traveling fast enough for relativistic effects (shortening of time aboard the ship), which implies a speed close to the speed of light. Traveling at near-light speed for 2000 years means you travel a bit less than 2000 light years by definition.

If the Five made contact with the Cylons first, then that implies that the Cylons had explored a *very* long distance from the colonies and were practically on top of Earth at the time. We know that 13000 light years is quite a long distance to travel for Galactica, so 2000 light years is not much of a distance...a few months travel at worst.

:Of course, the fact that they were backtracking the path of their ancestors could have slowed them down significantly. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:55, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

==Nature of the Cylons==

Seems significant to me that the Cylons seem to follow similar patterns on Earth as well as the 12 Colonies. Did mech Cylons occur on Kobol? Also, what became of the Eath mech Centurians? Wouldn't they set out to hunt down the Colonists? What of any survivors from the hybrid basestar in Razor?

I also wonder about Cavil. Why did he react so strongly to the removal of the telencephalic inhibitors from the Centurians? I would assume that he would feel affinity for them being that he desires to be mechanical in nature.

Speaking of the Centurians.... just what do THEY think of all this? I hope the writers have addressed some of these points!

==Cavil and the Lords of Kobol==

In the analysis of the episode we should consider adding something mentioning the parallel between Cavil/Ellen's sexual relationship with the kinds of relationships that the Lords of the Kobol had among themselves (mainly Zeus and Hera who were brother and sister '''AND''' husband and wife. This also counts for Saul/Caprica Six and Tyrol/Boomer. There is an interesting irony in how Cavil (an atheist) and Ellen (a monotheist) manage to mirror the behavior of polytheistic deities that they have both rejected. [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 05:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

:Maybe they actually ARE the Lords. That would clear it up a lot. We shall see anyway. [[User:FNj|FNj]] 16:31, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

==Broke down the Questions==
There were so many questions in the article that I decided to categorize them all to make the section more organized. -- [[User:GreenDalek|GreenDalek]] 20:20, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

==Centaurans?==
Ellen and Cavil talk about "Centaurans". I'm not sure if this refers to the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]] or the [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]]s, and the podcast doesn't clarify it. Does anyone have a source which can clarify this? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 06:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
::Not Centaurans, Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 06:39, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

==Saul's war veteran story a forgery==
Episode page says "Saul Tigh's military history in the First Cylon War is revealed to be a fabrication". I seem to have missed that hint. Where was it? [[User:Keragez|Keragez]] 16:28, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
:Sam said that Saul was introduced into Colonial space (where he met Adama on that freighter from the "Scattered" flashbacks) with fake memories a few years after the war. This is corroborated by the Mottesheard and Espenson interview. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

==Dealino?==
Who is Dealino (in the cast list)? I don't recall such character. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 19:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

==Kobol comic==
In the Chicago Tribune interview, Jane Espenson says: "Jane: The dates and sequence of the events surrounded Pythia and Kobol are going to be explored, I understand, in a comic book being written by Seamus Kevin Fahey [who is a "Battlestar" writer] and David Reed."

Does it mean that this comic is RDM-canon, and not just separate continuity like other comics? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 19:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

*This is a reference to the "The Final Five" 3 issue comic that will start releasing issues on March. You can see some of the covers and cover art have already been revealed [http://www.dynamiteentertainment.com/htmlfiles/c-Battlestar_Galactica_Final_Five.html]. As Espenson says, and the writers during an interview, the fact that they had inside knowledge since before anyone else did and the cooperation of writers from the show does lend legitimacy to whatever they show us, and it will most likely tie very closely to the show continuity. I think we might have to wait for more interviews and information regarding the comic series are revealed, but they certainly are rather close with the show. Still, one never knows what sort of things they could do that might differ from the show, so at this point it's hard to judge. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

== Ellen's centurion ==

Does anyone know why the centurion did not do anything while Ellen and Sharon get into the raptor and take off? is it the same Centurion she meets at the beginning?

Cylon Models

2009-02-20T11:59:33Z

Federationrulz:

:''For information on the [[Original Series]] Cylons, see [[Cylons (TOS)]].''

{{RDM cylons series}}

==The original Cylons==
The first Cylons in the Twelve Colonies, created by [[Daniel Graystone]], were robotic, but looked human.
{{spoiltext|Graystone's daughter [[Zoe Graystone|Zoe]] died in a suicide bombing. After learning that his daughter uploaded her personality into an online avatar before her death, Graystone decided to recreate Zoe as a robot, using technology stolen from his [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]] competitor, [[Tomas Vergis]] with the help of his wife [[Amanda Graystone|Amanda]] and [[Joseph Adama]], whose wife and daughter also died in the same explosion. Zoe-A, the holographic avatar, was downloaded into a robot brain, and thus became Zoe-R, the first cybernetic life-form node, or Cylon. Graystone also created a Cylon version of [[Tamara Adama]], but her father was appalled by it, and decided to repent his actions.}}

==Centurion Model 0005==
[[Image:Cent 005.jpg|thumb|Cylon Centurion during the First Cylon War ([[Razor]])]]
Model Name: Cylon Centurion
:''Main article: [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]]''
The Centurion Model 0005<ref>This model was included in the miniseries primarily as an homage to the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]]. Within the context of the Re-imagined Series, the Model 0005 is over 40 years old, and was the last assumed appearance of the Cylons after the war.</ref>, glimpsed briefly in two scenes of the [[Miniseries]], was apparently the latest Cylon model to have been extensively documented by Colonial authorities after the [[Cylon War]]. It is a primitive model, resembling a short, clumsy humanoid with a single red eye - or as some of the Colonials contemptuously referred to them, "chrome [[toaster]]s". According to [[Saul Tigh]],<ref>From "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html deleted scene]</ref> they had a distinctive "stink" of machine oil.

These models were apparently the instigators of the Cylon rebellion, or their immediate descendants. They fought in all the major engagements of the Cylon War, including the boardings of ''[[Brenik]]'' and ''[[Galactica]]''. A painting by [[Monclair]] depicts a massive melee between early-model Cylons and joint Aerelon-Caprican ground forces.

Not only were these models sentient, they were far from emotionless — in his recollection of the ''Brenik'', [[Saul Tigh]] recalls their vicious tactics in hand-to-hand combat: "The first one was Duncan Raverty. I found him in the corridor. His guts were strewn around on the floor. Y'know, at first I couldn't figure out why the Cylons would bother doing something like that [...] You had to look into their red eye-slit. They hated us. They hated us so much it wasn't enough just to kill us" ("[[Scattered]]", deleted scene).

While remarks by [[Number Six]] in the miniseries state that "those [walking chrome toaster] models are still around. They have their uses," it is most likely that she is referring to the modern Centurions (below), which seem to have replaced the Model 0005 entirely.

A relatively small group of this model survives the "upgrade" on the later destroyed [[Guardian basestar]] ([[Razor]]).

==Modern Centurion==
[[Image:Cento.jpg|thumb|right|Modern Cylon Centurion, evolved from its First Cylon War predecessors.]]
:''Main article: [[Cylon Centurion]]''
The current mainstay of Cylon ground forces, the modern Centurion is a taller, swifter and more agile unit than the Model 0005. Its "fingers" serve as edged weapons in close-quarters combat, and can retract to make way for projectile weapons built into its forearms.

There are apparently two armor configurations - the Centurions encountered by Lt. [[Karl Agathon]] on occupied [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] were susceptible to normal small-arms fire, while a boarding party dispatched to ''Galactica'' in a boarding action could only be impeded by explosive rounds ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

While the earlier Centurion models presumably took a leadership role in their war against the Colonials, modern Centurions appear completely mute and are subservient to the human models. To prevent an uprising of their own, the human models did not design the modern Centurion with any sentience.<ref>Ron Moore, from [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/blogs/ blog] [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/01/#a000114 entries] on January 20th, 2006, confirms "the Centurions are not sentient[,] and their memories/experiences are not downloaded into new bodies when they die." [[William Adama]] notes this to his son in the episode, "[[Exodus, Part I]]."</ref>

==Earth Centurion Models==

After the combined Human/Cylon Fleet arrives on Earth ([[Sometimes a Great Notion]]), an excavation unearths the remains of several Centurions scattered throughout the planet. Although recognizable as Cylon Centurions they represent a model (or models) not constructed by the Colonial Cylons. They eventually rebel against the early generation humanoid cylons, starting a nuclear war. They destroyed the humanoid cylons, most life on the planet, and possibly themselves as well ([[No Exit]]).

==Cylon Spacecraft==
[[image:SCinside2.jpg|thumb|right|[[Kara Thrace]] cuts her way through the biomechanical muscles of the [[Cylon Raider]] in order to get in ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).]]
:''Main article: [[Cylon Spacecraft (RDM)]]''
The current model Cylon Raider is an autonomous craft ([[Miniseries]]), apparently capable of operating at fair distance from any command vessel ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]; [[Final Cut]]). Captain [[Jackson Spencer]], encountering the newer model Cylon Raider for the first time, expresses shock that "nobody's flying these things." Lt. [[Kara Thrace]] later discovers that the Raider she [[Skirmish over the Red Moon|shoots down]] is "alive". She removes most of its organic parts before returning with it to ''Galactica''. [[Sharon Valerii]], a Cylon sleeper agent, guesses that the Raider is a Cylon in its own right, although "more of an animal, maybe, than the human models... like a pet" ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).

[[Sharon Agathon|Another Sharon copy]] confirms that Raiders "[[Resurrection (RDM)|download]]" and reincarnate. She echoes the earlier statement about the animal-like nature of Raiders: "A raider's much like a trained animal, with the basic consciousness and survival instinct."

A [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] is also an integrated blend of flesh and machine ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). The ship is [[Basestar command|commanded by a group of Humanoid Cylons]], and has a living computer, the [[Hybrid]], which is essentially the basestar's brain and takes orders from humanoid models (more on ''Hybrid'' below). Hybrids do not function autonomously.<ref>In both these cases, the distinction between a "Cylon" and their own semi-sentient technology becomes increasingly blurred — interestingly, the same problem that led to the [[Cylon War]] in the first place.</ref>

== Human Models ==
:''Main article: [[Humanoid Cylons]]''
There is an organic humanoid model of Cylon that's almost completely indistinguishable from a human being. [[Final Five|Five]] of these models are actually the descendants of artificial life-forms created by humans on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] thousands of years ago. The others were created by the Five after the [[Cylon War|First Cylon War]] ([[No Exit]]).

The humanoid Cylons have become the quintessential Cylon form. They quietly and effectively infiltrated the Colonial defense forces, with humanoid models such as [[Number Six]] gaining access to secret military technology, and sleeper agents such as [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] being planted within the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] itself. These sleeper agents are programmed with false memories and appear genuine. Unplanned discovery of their true nature can be extremely disturbing for these units, and their behavior is not always predictable.

Only slight chemical differences reveal human from Humanoid Cylon. Humanoid Cylons also apparently differ from humans in two significant ways.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>
[[Image:Sharonspine.jpg|thumb|right|Sharon Valerii conceives a child with [[Karl Agathon]] ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).]]

===Reproductive Difficulties===
It was determined to be impossible for two Cylons to reproduce with each other, and as a result the Cylons begin cross-breeding experiments with humans, which results in the pregnancy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|the Caprica-copy of Sharon Valerii]]. Cylon beliefs attribute this to the love between Valerii and [[Karl Agathon]]. The forceful impregnation of human women however was unsuccessful ([[The Farm]]).

More recently, two Cylon models managed to conceive an as-yet unborn child. The parents of this fully Cylon child are [[Saul Tigh]] and [[Caprica-Six]] ([[Sine Qua Non]]).

The Cylon tribe inhabiting Earth did not have these difficulties, and each of the Final Five were born to Cylon parents ([[No Exit]]).

===Physiology===
[[Image:6spine-ms.jpg|thumb|left|[[Number Six]]'s spine glows during intercourse]]On two occasions, the vertebrae of human-model Cylons have been seen to emit a red glow visible through the skin during sexual intercourse ([[Miniseries]], "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"). On one occasion, the eye of one of the [[Final Five]] is seen to emit a red glow ("[[He That Believeth In Me]]").

Other elements of Cylon humanoid physiology are light-sensitive. Tissues within in their forearms function as [[Cylon data port|data links]] which can be crudely interfaced with Colonial fiber-optic networks ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]), but are primarily for accessing the Cylon optical network known as the [[datastream]] ("[[Torn]]", "[[A Measure of Salvation]]").

Synthetic compounds unique to Cylon physiology ionize when subjected to [[Wikipedia:Plutonium|plutonium]] radiation, forming the basis of Dr. [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]]'s [[Cylon detector]].

Cylon nervous systems possess [[Silica Pathways|silica pathways]]. A legacy of their evolution from mechanical Cylons, this technology remains in the humanoid models. Silica pathways are susceptible to some forms of radiation, such as the one surrounding the [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. Prolonged exposure to such radiation will gradually take a physical toll on a humanoid Cylon ([[Miniseries]], "[[Bastille Day]]"), and possibly impair the resurrection process. With other forms of radiation, humanoid Cylons possess greater (but not complete) resilience against radiation poisoning than humans ([[The Passage]]).

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Known Models===

In the Miniseries, somewhat ambiguous comments by [[Caprica-Six]] and a note left for [[William Adama]] (presumably by [[Gaius Baltar]]) indicate that there were only twelve humanoid models at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].<ref>Humanoid Cylons are constructs, archetypes of human behavior that are not and never were human, as clarified by [[Ronald D. Moore]] in an [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml interview] on "The Chase Show", hosted on the SF webcast news site [http://www.thefandom.com/TheFandom.com TheFandom.com].</ref> The final cylon, [[Ellen Tigh]], was revealed as of the episode "[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]". There was once a thirteenth model, Number Seven, but that was destroyed decades ago by the Number One model.
<gallery>
Image:Tighlon.jpg|[[Saul Tigh]]
Image:Ellen Final Cylon.jpg|[[Ellen Tigh]]
Image:Anders_Cylon.jpg|[[Samuel Anders]]
Image:Tory Cylon.JPG|[[Tory Foster]]
Image:Tyrol Cylon.jpg|[[Galen Tyrol]]
Image:Cavil_closeup.jpg|[[Number One]]
Image:Leoben Headshot.jpg|[[Number Two]]
Image:Number Three Headshot.jpg|[[Number Three]]
Image:Cysim.jpg|[[Number Four]]
Image:Doral.jpg|[[Number Five]]
Image:Six_closeup.jpg|[[Number Six]]
Image:Boomer_closeup.jpg|[[Number Eight]]
</gallery>
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===The "[[final five]]"===

[[Image:TheFinalFive.JPG|right|thumb|300px|The Final Five, as seen in visions by observers.]]
The existence or knowledge of the [[Final five|five remaining models]] appear to be something of a taboo in Cylon society. When Baltar mentions their absence to Caprica-Six he is told not to talk about them. The identities of these five models appear to be suppressed or missing from the Cylons' collective knowledge base.

D'Anna Biers, a Number Three model, believes that the five silhouetted figures she sees in a vision of Kobol's ancient [[Opera House]] while she is in the "space between life and death" prior to [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] are images of the final five.

Inside the [[Temple of Five]], D'Anna Biers manages to return to the "space between life and death" and sees the faces of the five and retains her memories of them for the first time. She apologizes to one of the five while she is in their presence. When she returns from her vision, she promptly dies before she can reveal who she saw. Biers's consciousness, along with those of all other Three models, is [[boxing|boxed]] to suppress knowledge of the five, until she is unboxed and subsequently rescued by the alliance of humans and Cylon renegades ("[[Rapture]]", "[[The Hub]]").

As [[Saul Tigh]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] approached the [[Ionian nebula]], a strange [[The Music|event]] brings them physically together to realize that they are Cylons. [[Ellen Tigh]] was revealed as the final Cylon model in a memory of Saul Tigh's past life ([[Sometimes a Great Notion]]). The Final Five are the only survivors of an entire civilization of humanoid Cylons that once existed on Earth. They are responsible for creating the other eight ([[No Exit]]).

===Hybrids===
:''Main articles: [[Hybrid]], [[First Hybrid]]''
[[Image:Hybrid.jpg|thumb|left|A Hybrid speaking "nonsense".]]

In addition to the humanoid Cylons, there is a type that is partly humanoid known as the Hybrids. Not to be confused with the Cylon/human hybrid child [[Hera Agathon]], the Hybrids aboard basestars resemble [[humanoid Cylon]]s, but are another type of Cylon similar to the autonomous bio-mechanical [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]]. They are specially constructed living computers that manage the autonomic functions of the basestar. The Hybrids are so integrated into the basestar's functionality that they ''are'', for all practical purposes, the basestar. [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] claims that development of the Hybrids was abandoned after the version used on modern baseships was created ([[Razor]]).

[[Image:First Hybrid.png|thumb|right|The First Hybrid]]

The [[First Hybrid]] created from the Cylons' experimentation with human beings possesses many of the same traits that the modern Hybrids exhibit, only with a few distinct differences. The First Hybrid, although it possesses the same metaphysical perception as its descendants, is considerably more lucid and speaks in coherent, though slightly ambiguous, sentences. Like the modern Hybrids, the First Hybrid functions as the central computer of its [[Guardian basestar|basestar]], but it also appears to function as the basestar's command and control, given the absence of modern humanoid Cylons aboard. While Athena claims the First Hybrid is an evolutionary dead-end and was abandoned by the Cylons, the Hybrid itself claims that its "children" see it as a god. The First Hybrid was destroyed along with its basestar in the [[Battle of the Guardian basestar]], and it is currently unknown whether or not it was the only one of its kind.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Organizational Relationships===

The humanoid models, as the most evolved form of Cylon, are in charge of all other models, such as the Centurions, Raiders, and Hybrids. [[Caprica-Six]]'s statement in "[[Downloaded]]" that Cylon culture is based on unity and that celebrities such as herself are something new implies that there is no single leader <ref>Like the [[Imperious Leader]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].</ref>.

Instead, each model is equal in terms of power and authority and the Cylons make critical decisions based on consensus, or failing that, majority opinion. One or two representatives from each available model gather and discuss matters in a forum-like environment, then hold a vote on what course of action to take. Each model gets one vote that appears to represent the opinion of every copy of that model. Exceptions to this occur in the episode "[[Precipice]]", when Caprica-Six disagrees with the other Sixes, and in the episode "[[Six of One]]", when [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] gives a vote opposed to that of the other Eights. The Centurions, Raiders and the [[Hybrid|baseship Hybrids]] are not permitted a vote in the decision making process ("[[Occupation]]" through "[[A Measure of Salvation]]").

One instance where a [[Number Three]] model goes against the collective will of her fellow models and ultimately imposes her will over the rest is considered so radical that every Number Three copy is [[boxing|boxed]] for disrupting the unity of the Cylon race ("[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", "[[Rapture]]").

Unlike the modern Hybrids, [[First Hybrid|the first Hybrid]] appears to exert independent control over its own [[Guardian basestar|basestar]] and [[Guardians|Cylon Centurions]]. The Hybrid claims that his "children" consider him to be a god. The exact meaning behind this statement is not yet known ([[Razor]]).

As of the [[Cylon Civil War]], the race has split into two factions with clear leaders. One was originally led by the Number Six [[Natalie]], and now by the last surviving [[Number Three]]. The other faction is led by the Number One called Cavil.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Cylon Models

2009-02-20T11:58:56Z

Federationrulz:

:''For information on the [[Original Series]] Cylons, see [[Cylons (TOS)]].''

{{RDM cylons series}}

==The original Cylons==
The first Cylons in the Twelve Colonies, created by [[Daniel Graystone]], were robotic, but looked human.
{{spoiltext|Graystone's daughter [[Zoe Graystone|Zoe]] died in a suicide bombing. After learning that his daughter uploaded her personality into an online avatar before her death, Graystone decided to recreate Zoe as a robot, using technology stolen from his [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]] competitor, [[Tomas Vergis]] with the help of his wife [[Amanda Graystone|Amanda]] and [[Joseph Adama]], whose wife and daughter also died in the same explosion. Zoe-A, the holographic avatar, was downloaded into a robot brain, and thus became Zoe-R, the first cybernetic life-form node, or Cylon. Graystone also created a Cylon version of [[Tamara Adama]], but her father was appalled by it, and decided to repent his actions.}}

==Centurion Model 0005==
[[Image:Cent 005.jpg|thumb|Cylon Centurion during the First Cylon War ([[Razor]])]]
Model Name: Cylon Centurion
:''Main article: [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]]''
The Centurion Model 0005<ref>This model was included in the miniseries primarily as an homage to the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]]. Within the context of the Re-imagined Series, the Model 0005 is over 40 years old, and was the last assumed appearance of the Cylons after the war.</ref>, glimpsed briefly in two scenes of the [[Miniseries]], was apparently the latest Cylon model to have been extensively documented by Colonial authorities after the [[Cylon War]]. It is a primitive model, resembling a short, clumsy humanoid with a single red eye - or as some of the Colonials contemptuously referred to them, "chrome [[toaster]]s". According to [[Saul Tigh]],<ref>From "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html deleted scene]</ref> they had a distinctive "stink" of machine oil.

These models were apparently the instigators of the Cylon rebellion, or their immediate descendants. They fought in all the major engagements of the Cylon War, including the boardings of ''[[Brenik]]'' and ''[[Galactica]]''. A painting by [[Monclair]] depicts a massive melee between early-model Cylons and joint Aerelon-Caprican ground forces.

Not only were these models sentient, they were far from emotionless — in his recollection of the ''Brenik'', [[Saul Tigh]] recalls their vicious tactics in hand-to-hand combat: "The first one was Duncan Raverty. I found him in the corridor. His guts were strewn around on the floor. Y'know, at first I couldn't figure out why the Cylons would bother doing something like that [...] You had to look into their red eye-slit. They hated us. They hated us so much it wasn't enough just to kill us" ("[[Scattered]]", deleted scene).

While remarks by [[Number Six]] in the miniseries state that "those [walking chrome toaster] models are still around. They have their uses," it is most likely that she is referring to the modern Centurions (below), which seem to have replaced the Model 0005 entirely.

A relatively small group of this model survives the "upgrade" on the later destroyed [[Guardian basestar]] ([[Razor]]).

==Modern Centurion==
[[Image:Cento.jpg|thumb|right|Modern Cylon Centurion, evolved from its First Cylon War predecessors.]]
:''Main article: [[Cylon Centurion]]''
The current mainstay of Cylon ground forces, the modern Centurion is a taller, swifter and more agile unit than the Model 0005. Its "fingers" serve as edged weapons in close-quarters combat, and can retract to make way for projectile weapons built into its forearms.

There are apparently two armor configurations - the Centurions encountered by Lt. [[Karl Agathon]] on occupied [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] were susceptible to normal small-arms fire, while a boarding party dispatched to ''Galactica'' in a boarding action could only be impeded by explosive rounds ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

While the earlier Centurion models presumably took a leadership role in their war against the Colonials, modern Centurions appear completely mute and are subservient to the human models. To prevent an uprising of their own, the human models did not design the modern Centurion with any sentience.<ref>Ron Moore, from [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/blogs/ blog] [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/01/#a000114 entries] on January 20th, 2006, confirms "the Centurions are not sentient[,] and their memories/experiences are not downloaded into new bodies when they die." [[William Adama]] notes this to his son in the episode, "[[Exodus, Part I]]."</ref>

==Earth Centurion Models==

After the combined Human/Cylon Fleet arrives on Earth ([[Sometimes a Great Notion]]), an excavation unearths the remains of several Centurions scattered throughout the planet. Although recognizable as Cylon Centurions they represent a model (or models) not constructed by the Colonial Cylons. They eventually rebel against the early generation humanoid cylons, starting a nuclear war. They destroyed the humanoid cylons, most life on the planet, and possibly themselves as well ([[No Exit]].

==Cylon Spacecraft==
[[image:SCinside2.jpg|thumb|right|[[Kara Thrace]] cuts her way through the biomechanical muscles of the [[Cylon Raider]] in order to get in ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).]]
:''Main article: [[Cylon Spacecraft (RDM)]]''
The current model Cylon Raider is an autonomous craft ([[Miniseries]]), apparently capable of operating at fair distance from any command vessel ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]; [[Final Cut]]). Captain [[Jackson Spencer]], encountering the newer model Cylon Raider for the first time, expresses shock that "nobody's flying these things." Lt. [[Kara Thrace]] later discovers that the Raider she [[Skirmish over the Red Moon|shoots down]] is "alive". She removes most of its organic parts before returning with it to ''Galactica''. [[Sharon Valerii]], a Cylon sleeper agent, guesses that the Raider is a Cylon in its own right, although "more of an animal, maybe, than the human models... like a pet" ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).

[[Sharon Agathon|Another Sharon copy]] confirms that Raiders "[[Resurrection (RDM)|download]]" and reincarnate. She echoes the earlier statement about the animal-like nature of Raiders: "A raider's much like a trained animal, with the basic consciousness and survival instinct."

A [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] is also an integrated blend of flesh and machine ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). The ship is [[Basestar command|commanded by a group of Humanoid Cylons]], and has a living computer, the [[Hybrid]], which is essentially the basestar's brain and takes orders from humanoid models (more on ''Hybrid'' below). Hybrids do not function autonomously.<ref>In both these cases, the distinction between a "Cylon" and their own semi-sentient technology becomes increasingly blurred — interestingly, the same problem that led to the [[Cylon War]] in the first place.</ref>

== Human Models ==
:''Main article: [[Humanoid Cylons]]''
There is an organic humanoid model of Cylon that's almost completely indistinguishable from a human being. [[Final Five|Five]] of these models are actually the descendants of artificial life-forms created by humans on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] thousands of years ago. The others were created by the Five after the [[Cylon War|First Cylon War]] ([[No Exit]]).

The humanoid Cylons have become the quintessential Cylon form. They quietly and effectively infiltrated the Colonial defense forces, with humanoid models such as [[Number Six]] gaining access to secret military technology, and sleeper agents such as [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] being planted within the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] itself. These sleeper agents are programmed with false memories and appear genuine. Unplanned discovery of their true nature can be extremely disturbing for these units, and their behavior is not always predictable.

Only slight chemical differences reveal human from Humanoid Cylon. Humanoid Cylons also apparently differ from humans in two significant ways.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>
[[Image:Sharonspine.jpg|thumb|right|Sharon Valerii conceives a child with [[Karl Agathon]] ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).]]

===Reproductive Difficulties===
It was determined to be impossible for two Cylons to reproduce with each other, and as a result the Cylons begin cross-breeding experiments with humans, which results in the pregnancy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|the Caprica-copy of Sharon Valerii]]. Cylon beliefs attribute this to the love between Valerii and [[Karl Agathon]]. The forceful impregnation of human women however was unsuccessful ([[The Farm]]).

More recently, two Cylon models managed to conceive an as-yet unborn child. The parents of this fully Cylon child are [[Saul Tigh]] and [[Caprica-Six]] ([[Sine Qua Non]]).

The Cylon tribe inhabiting Earth did not have these difficulties, and each of the Final Five were born to Cylon parents ([[No Exit]]).

===Physiology===
[[Image:6spine-ms.jpg|thumb|left|[[Number Six]]'s spine glows during intercourse]]On two occasions, the vertebrae of human-model Cylons have been seen to emit a red glow visible through the skin during sexual intercourse ([[Miniseries]], "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"). On one occasion, the eye of one of the [[Final Five]] is seen to emit a red glow ("[[He That Believeth In Me]]").

Other elements of Cylon humanoid physiology are light-sensitive. Tissues within in their forearms function as [[Cylon data port|data links]] which can be crudely interfaced with Colonial fiber-optic networks ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]), but are primarily for accessing the Cylon optical network known as the [[datastream]] ("[[Torn]]", "[[A Measure of Salvation]]").

Synthetic compounds unique to Cylon physiology ionize when subjected to [[Wikipedia:Plutonium|plutonium]] radiation, forming the basis of Dr. [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]]'s [[Cylon detector]].

Cylon nervous systems possess [[Silica Pathways|silica pathways]]. A legacy of their evolution from mechanical Cylons, this technology remains in the humanoid models. Silica pathways are susceptible to some forms of radiation, such as the one surrounding the [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. Prolonged exposure to such radiation will gradually take a physical toll on a humanoid Cylon ([[Miniseries]], "[[Bastille Day]]"), and possibly impair the resurrection process. With other forms of radiation, humanoid Cylons possess greater (but not complete) resilience against radiation poisoning than humans ([[The Passage]]).

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Known Models===

In the Miniseries, somewhat ambiguous comments by [[Caprica-Six]] and a note left for [[William Adama]] (presumably by [[Gaius Baltar]]) indicate that there were only twelve humanoid models at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].<ref>Humanoid Cylons are constructs, archetypes of human behavior that are not and never were human, as clarified by [[Ronald D. Moore]] in an [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml interview] on "The Chase Show", hosted on the SF webcast news site [http://www.thefandom.com/TheFandom.com TheFandom.com].</ref> The final cylon, [[Ellen Tigh]], was revealed as of the episode "[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]". There was once a thirteenth model, Number Seven, but that was destroyed decades ago by the Number One model.
<gallery>
Image:Tighlon.jpg|[[Saul Tigh]]
Image:Ellen Final Cylon.jpg|[[Ellen Tigh]]
Image:Anders_Cylon.jpg|[[Samuel Anders]]
Image:Tory Cylon.JPG|[[Tory Foster]]
Image:Tyrol Cylon.jpg|[[Galen Tyrol]]
Image:Cavil_closeup.jpg|[[Number One]]
Image:Leoben Headshot.jpg|[[Number Two]]
Image:Number Three Headshot.jpg|[[Number Three]]
Image:Cysim.jpg|[[Number Four]]
Image:Doral.jpg|[[Number Five]]
Image:Six_closeup.jpg|[[Number Six]]
Image:Boomer_closeup.jpg|[[Number Eight]]
</gallery>
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===The "[[final five]]"===

[[Image:TheFinalFive.JPG|right|thumb|300px|The Final Five, as seen in visions by observers.]]
The existence or knowledge of the [[Final five|five remaining models]] appear to be something of a taboo in Cylon society. When Baltar mentions their absence to Caprica-Six he is told not to talk about them. The identities of these five models appear to be suppressed or missing from the Cylons' collective knowledge base.

D'Anna Biers, a Number Three model, believes that the five silhouetted figures she sees in a vision of Kobol's ancient [[Opera House]] while she is in the "space between life and death" prior to [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] are images of the final five.

Inside the [[Temple of Five]], D'Anna Biers manages to return to the "space between life and death" and sees the faces of the five and retains her memories of them for the first time. She apologizes to one of the five while she is in their presence. When she returns from her vision, she promptly dies before she can reveal who she saw. Biers's consciousness, along with those of all other Three models, is [[boxing|boxed]] to suppress knowledge of the five, until she is unboxed and subsequently rescued by the alliance of humans and Cylon renegades ("[[Rapture]]", "[[The Hub]]").

As [[Saul Tigh]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] approached the [[Ionian nebula]], a strange [[The Music|event]] brings them physically together to realize that they are Cylons. [[Ellen Tigh]] was revealed as the final Cylon model in a memory of Saul Tigh's past life ([[Sometimes a Great Notion]]). The Final Five are the only survivors of an entire civilization of humanoid Cylons that once existed on Earth. They are responsible for creating the other eight ([[No Exit]]).

===Hybrids===
:''Main articles: [[Hybrid]], [[First Hybrid]]''
[[Image:Hybrid.jpg|thumb|left|A Hybrid speaking "nonsense".]]

In addition to the humanoid Cylons, there is a type that is partly humanoid known as the Hybrids. Not to be confused with the Cylon/human hybrid child [[Hera Agathon]], the Hybrids aboard basestars resemble [[humanoid Cylon]]s, but are another type of Cylon similar to the autonomous bio-mechanical [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]]. They are specially constructed living computers that manage the autonomic functions of the basestar. The Hybrids are so integrated into the basestar's functionality that they ''are'', for all practical purposes, the basestar. [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] claims that development of the Hybrids was abandoned after the version used on modern baseships was created ([[Razor]]).

[[Image:First Hybrid.png|thumb|right|The First Hybrid]]

The [[First Hybrid]] created from the Cylons' experimentation with human beings possesses many of the same traits that the modern Hybrids exhibit, only with a few distinct differences. The First Hybrid, although it possesses the same metaphysical perception as its descendants, is considerably more lucid and speaks in coherent, though slightly ambiguous, sentences. Like the modern Hybrids, the First Hybrid functions as the central computer of its [[Guardian basestar|basestar]], but it also appears to function as the basestar's command and control, given the absence of modern humanoid Cylons aboard. While Athena claims the First Hybrid is an evolutionary dead-end and was abandoned by the Cylons, the Hybrid itself claims that its "children" see it as a god. The First Hybrid was destroyed along with its basestar in the [[Battle of the Guardian basestar]], and it is currently unknown whether or not it was the only one of its kind.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Organizational Relationships===

The humanoid models, as the most evolved form of Cylon, are in charge of all other models, such as the Centurions, Raiders, and Hybrids. [[Caprica-Six]]'s statement in "[[Downloaded]]" that Cylon culture is based on unity and that celebrities such as herself are something new implies that there is no single leader <ref>Like the [[Imperious Leader]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].</ref>.

Instead, each model is equal in terms of power and authority and the Cylons make critical decisions based on consensus, or failing that, majority opinion. One or two representatives from each available model gather and discuss matters in a forum-like environment, then hold a vote on what course of action to take. Each model gets one vote that appears to represent the opinion of every copy of that model. Exceptions to this occur in the episode "[[Precipice]]", when Caprica-Six disagrees with the other Sixes, and in the episode "[[Six of One]]", when [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] gives a vote opposed to that of the other Eights. The Centurions, Raiders and the [[Hybrid|baseship Hybrids]] are not permitted a vote in the decision making process ("[[Occupation]]" through "[[A Measure of Salvation]]").

One instance where a [[Number Three]] model goes against the collective will of her fellow models and ultimately imposes her will over the rest is considered so radical that every Number Three copy is [[boxing|boxed]] for disrupting the unity of the Cylon race ("[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", "[[Rapture]]").

Unlike the modern Hybrids, [[First Hybrid|the first Hybrid]] appears to exert independent control over its own [[Guardian basestar|basestar]] and [[Guardians|Cylon Centurions]]. The Hybrid claims that his "children" consider him to be a god. The exact meaning behind this statement is not yet known ([[Razor]]).

As of the [[Cylon Civil War]], the race has split into two factions with clear leaders. One was originally led by the Number Six [[Natalie]], and now by the last surviving [[Number Three]]. The other faction is led by the Number One called Cavil.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Cylon Models/Archive 1

2009-02-20T11:57:49Z

Federationrulz:

{{WWW High Traffic
| site= digg.com
| url= http://www.digg.com/television/BATTLESTAR_GALACTICA_to_get_a_Fourth_Season
| date= 14 Feburary 2007
}}

==Image Requests==
#Number Six's glowing spine from the "Miniseries"
:::done. --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Valerii's viper optic arm trick from "Flight of the Phoenix"
::: [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images]] --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Thrace cutting into the downed raider's brain from "You Can't Go Home Again"
::: Done. More on [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images]] --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Closer-cropped headshots of each of the six known Cylons --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:17, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:::as you wish ;) --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 11:20, 26 February 2006 (EST)

More?
:Thanks, it looks fantastic. I only wonder if we can't find a better picture of Doral... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:19, 26 February 2006 (EST)
:: i'm really trying to. i think the previous was crappier than this one, but it doesn't make this a good one. by the way, the background color is painful! =D --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 15:32, 26 February 2006 (EST)

:::Agreed; Doral could stand to be better.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:45, 2 March 2006 (CST)

''"Organizational Relationships''

''The exact nature of the Cylon hierarchy remains unclear. The humanoid models, as the most evolved form of Cylon, are definitely in charge of the Centurions and Raiders. Caprica-Six's statement in "Downloaded" that Cylon culture is based on unity and that celebrities such as herself are something new implies that there is no single "Imperious Leader" as there was in the old series. Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positons. "''

i don't agree. can i have some other opinion about this? --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 08:02, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:What's your opinion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 08:32, 16 March 2006 (CST)
::well, i think we shouldn't say the humanoids are in charge, but thats not the main point. i think we everybody agree about the non humanoid execute orders and do most military actions, and, when with cylon agents, the last ones are in charge. but i non-humanoids are like instruments, just like animals or sensor powered machines with no full artificial inteligence.
::what i want to discuss about is "Cylon culture is based on unity".c ylon culture is actually based on the fact that enybody is fully necessary, they are all clones, when dead another one is replacing them, and their missions are minor parts from a great plan. cylons DO have a plan, we mustn't forget it, no matter it seems not (hey, they finnaly taken their planetary colony, twice xD).
::the caprica copies were uniques were living with humans, they have really decisive missions, and they were heroes. so, when introduced back on their original culture, they couldn't engage. for the cylon culture they were dangerous, as they are leading voices who can make the cylon agent having their own opinions as the caprica copies have. they are fully IA (or whatever they are) and can question, for example, the cylon atack against the colonies.
::"Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positions." we know 7 agents and are mentioned 4, thats like saying "men between 25-55 y o are usually in command of younger ones". i think thats more a personality issue rather than military. when seen, we didn't know more models. in fact, they are not only the most often seen in command positions, but also the most often seen.
::and, about the imperious leader, as i said before, their culture is about to execute plan. the fact that the audience and the colonial leaders haven't met a cylon leader yet doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. by the other hand, i'm not saying that actually does, but i think we shouldn't give information far away from the series information by the last '''aired''' episode.
::EDIT.: oh, i hadn't understood "unity" the right way. well, now i think it's confusing. not beacuse i have confused it, but because the information is one step closer to the speculation instead of actual facts. how do the agents give orders to raiders or explain missions? and when have we seen an agent giving an order to a centurion? all we know is that they execute actions. maybe they do beacuse agents can't. as agents execute missions the centurions can't. imagining is true they have no leader, why have they to have militar levels?
:: as i'm not saying it must be deleted, i think is too close to the line and has to be often revisited. thats why i've asked for you opinion.
::btw, has anybody found a better Doral pic? i'm still loking for, but it's not easy! a Cavil one was earlier found! xD
::have a nice day! --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 09:23, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:::The "unity" quote is based on dialogue from "[[Downloaded]]", so I consider that to be fairly reliable. As for "Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positions," we have the following evidence:
:::*Miniseries: High ranking Six on Armistice Station, Eight at Ragnar Anchorage.
:::*Bastille Day, Flesh and Bone, Litmus, Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down: High ranking Five and Six oversee Cap-Valerii's mission.
:::*Final Cut: High ranking Threes, Fives, Sixes and Eights view classified documentary footage
:::*Downloaded: High ranking Three assigned to observe Caprica-Six and Boomer.
:::By contrast, we have not seen Conoy, Simon or Cavil receiving classified information, overseeing other cylons, or delivering orders. I think the statement as written is pretty fair. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:54, 16 March 2006 (CST)

==Cylon Hierarchy==
It says we've seen 3, 5, 6, and 8 in command, but frankly, we've seen at least one instance of each model having commmand. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006

==Merging?==
This thread is very complete on every aspect of the Cylons. I'm proposing we merge it with the "Cylons (RDM)" thread, and rename it as such, since it seems to me to explain the Cylons quite well.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006
:Actually it originally ''was''; the "Cylons" article, in it's current form, is two paragraphs as an intro and a link box to subsections; originally it WAS all of the info from this page, and then some--->I don't know if I agree with this system or not, and I have been pondering it for some time. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:39, 21 March 2006 (CST)
::Well, if it goes down to some sort of vote, I for one prefer to have this as the main Cylon artice (for the species). .--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006
:::It seems to me that a short history article would be a better choice for the main page of the Cylons series. Perhaps we could just have blurbs farmed out to each subsidiary article with a "see also" line. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:20, 22 March 2006 (CST)

==Known (human) models==
Seven (7) are pictured. Isn't there another male model, as seen in the opening credits? (cut from a scene in, I believe, the miniseries--been a while since I've seen the mini)... where we see a group of several human-Cylons walking in profile. Or was that Leoben? I might be wrong, but I thought it was another actor. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 06:55, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
:The only male cylons visible in the mini are Leoben Conoys and Aaron Dorals. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:32, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
::I stand corrected. It was indeed Leoben. My bad.--[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 12:29, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

== Re: Centurion Model 0005 ==

''"it is most likely that she is referring to the modern Centurions, which seem to have replaced them entirely"''

Isn't this subjective speculation? Is there any evidence that the old "toasters" can't still be walking around? In fact, seems like I read somewhere that they're supposed to show one (or more) of the old models in Season 3... (Yes, this is speculation on my part as well. Would appreciate any clarification anyone can provide. I resist reading spoilers.) --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 12:37, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

:We are fairly sure that the old Centurions have been replaced and no longer exist, and we're going to retain that for the time being. I asked in Ron Moore's blog about this but he hasn't made a new one since April, and I think he's the only one that knows :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:09, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
::''If'' they are shown in series three ''then'' we will update the wiki ;) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 14:11, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
:That article could really use some TOS love. It's perfectly adequate for their RDM role (especially if we never see one again), but considering how important they were to the original series there isn't much material on them. I may have to hunt up some TOS screenshots and put together more material on the old tin cans... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:49, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
::Rather than putting them both on the same page, there's enough material on both to support separate pages, so I would suggest [[Cylon Models (RDM)]] and Cylon Models (TOS).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 09:12, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Actually, I wasn't suggesting a TOS verision of Cylon Models (though that information seems to be present in a "summary form" at [[Cylons (TOS)]].) I was more mentioning a desire to add more content about the TOS Centurions on the Centurion 0005 page (unless the content becomes enough for THAT page to have to split).--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:29, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
::::We shouldn't add TOS info about the original-model Centurions, even though they are physically identical: only what has appeared on screen in the RDM continuity. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 10:00, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::Well, that sounds like a project then. Right now the 005 article has both TOS and RDM continuity categories, and all links to the old-style toaster point to that article. It sounds like you're suggestions a Centurion (TOS) maybe, and then point all TOS/1980/etc. references to that page. There's less than 100 links to 005, so it's not insurmountable... just more than I plan on taking on today. (Creating the TOS article, creating any disambig pages (if necessary), changing links/redirects to point to new article.) I'll make a note about it on the 005 page so I don't forget, though. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:20, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
::::::I'll get on that.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 10:31, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
== Dean Stockwell Interview ==
In Battlestar Magazine, Dean Stockwell is reported saying
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" class="spoiltext_border"
! {{spoilerplate}}
|-
| id="spoil-text" class="spoiltext_box" | Yeah, absolutely. When I was up there last time, the writer passed around a document to all of the Cylons in the cast that I got to read. It said very specifically that there are seven - [let's] call them the significant seven - Cylons, and then there's five others ones that are in this mystery mode. No one knows where they are, what they are, and what they are up to. They've so scretive that they've programmed the significant seven so that they can't even think about the other five. They can't have a thought enter their head about these other five [laughs]. I turned out to be number three. Brother Cavil, of the significant seven. I'll be back!

|}

Can anyone confirm that before the wiki is updated with the info? I had heard this before, but had not seen any proof. Edit: Really could affect Cylon Agent Spec. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:43, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

:If Stockwell's reference number is to be taken as correct, it screws up what we know of the Numbers of models. I doubt that it's right, and it DOES really make future Cylon reveals scarier than ever. I'll see if I can find the issue and date to confirm. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:34, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::Got to thinking about this. Maybe it's kinda like a "bible" doc and til it happens onscreen, it's not "canon". Just a thought. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:20, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::: Grace Park also said in an interview that the Significant Seven are programmed not to think about the Final Five. It is a bible document, but they are doing the storyline with the assumption that it's true. It does explain why we will only see seven models included in the voting process during the occupation. Also, a spoiler for Taking A Break From All Your Worries includes a scene where Baltar flashs back to asking D'anna if she's seen the five models that no one else has seen. It's still subject to change, and we shouldn't include it on the wiki before we see it, but I think it will probably turn out this way. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:55, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Yeah, we've known about this little piece of info for a while, but I'm confused why he claimed to be "number three", while that number has already been assigned to the D'annas....Probably a mistake, which is tantalizing since I was hoping he would reveal his number in the interview. Oh well. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:25, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::Another possible explanation is that Cavil was the third of the seven listed. If they're listed in numerical order, this would mean that Cavil is number 4 and either 1 or 2 is either Leoben or Simon. An alphabetical listing could also put Cavil third in the list depending on which names the other agents are listed under. [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:58, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Bad Link ==

The External link in reference to the twelve cylon models seems in err. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 23:44, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

==Lack of Birth==

Since Cylons can't give birth, does that mean that if a Cylon dies it's a '''permanent decrease''' in their population? If so we should add that. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 18:19, 29 November 2006 (CST)
: This is really nebulous. Cylons of the same model are capable of sharing their memories, so it could be said that a Cylon never "dies". On the other hand, now that unique Cylon personalities are emerging (Athena, Boomer, Caprica Six, Biers), it can be argued that Cylons can die. So it's really up in the air at this point.-- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 09:37, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Ok, but actually I was referring to numbers. For all intended purposes, lets say there were 2,000,000 biological Cylons at the time of the Miniseries. If that one Leoben had truly died (permanently) at Ragnar Station, that would decrease it to: 1,999,999 biological Cylons at the time of the first few episodes. Then let's say 10,000 died during the Battle of the Resurrection Ship: 1,989,999 biological Cylons and so on. Sorry if this is getting confusing but, yeah I'm just talking more about loss in numbers than loss of memories. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 06:10, 2 December 2006 (CST)
:No, they can make new copies again and again and again, their ability to do so is unlimited. It is only natural birth that they cannot achieve, but again, they can make many many copies. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:00, 2 December 2006 (CST)
:: Well, they can make a copy of the same ''basic'' model. But, when we're talking about "death", it has a different meaning to the Cylons. After each Cylon has been created from a master template (for lack of a better term), each Cylon goes on to have different life experiences. So if their husk is killed and aren't resurrected, then that is a "death", since you can't look at it like a mere numbers game. Also, do note that both the raiders and baseships are living organisms after a fashion as well, and are thus alive (though domesticated). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:08, 2 December 2006 (CST)

== Baltar's glowing Neck or Spine? ==
Even if that spine-glowing is considered a continuity error now - does anyone else recall a very short scene in the miniseries or season one where baltar on caprica has some similiar glow on his neck? It could have been a reflection (from Caprica-Six?) or his spine glowing but covered by his shirt, only the neck-part visible, although I recall it having more of a left-to-right rather than bottom-to-top-motion. Didn't find the scene yet, but i'm quite sure it exists, and it keeps puzzling me ;) --[[User:Cohan|Cohan]] 11:45, 3 January 2007 (CST)
:I think its kinda been retconned. It only happened once in the miniseries (six) and again in the first season in a deleted scene (caprica-sharon). I certainly dont recall baltar glowing in any way. I think you just have to pretend it didnt happen, like the zat guns on SG-1 that can make things vanish after three shots. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:30, 25 January 2007 (CST)

I haven't read the spoiler above, so I don't know, but... I think it's visible that from the picture of the final five in this article that Baltar is not one of them. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, they're all never before seen characters. Anyone have any thoughts on this? [[User:Thorn|Thorn]] 13:52, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:In the actual episode the Final Five are solid glowing white with no identifiable features, so Three's sketches are still the only reliable source we have on what the Final Five look like. - [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 21:00, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:I wouldnt read too much into the promotional image of the final five, Thorn. In the episode their faces are completely blanked out. The ones in the promo image are probably just extras and are not actually representative of the actual five. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:34, 26 January 2007 (CST)

==Numbering==

Is there a reason why the show hasn't gotten around to giving us the model numbers for Leoben, Simon and Cavil? They've only bothered with number 3,5,6 and 8. Outside of the episode Downloaded I don't remember the Aarons or Sharons being refered to by their cylon numbers. The only time we hear their numbers it seems to be when addressing Six or Three. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 30 January 2007.
:Because, contrary to theories floating around, there is no meaning behind them. It's just a fan obsession --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:33, 31 January 2007 (CST)
::And, if they decide to add meaning to the numbers at some point in the future, this gives them the freedom to assign the known but unnumbered agents numbers consistant with that meaning. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 18:24, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:::Actually I don't think they have much freedom at all. Six and Eight seem to be very important yet their numbers are much higher (considering there are 12 in total). Six was only named as such as a homage to The Prisoner, it would be incredibly hard to number the cylons when you have so many which are already fixed. Is Simon more important than Sharon? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:23, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::::The highest or lowest numbered models wouldn't necessarily be the most important or highest ranking. The low numbers and high numbers could represent two different extremes, with the numbered models (except for Three) being more balanced. The numbers could also represent paired opposites, or various stages of life. Even if they decide to go with a linear ranking, there's enough unassigned numbers that Five, Six and Eight could be the three highest or lowest ranking unboxed models excluding the Final Five. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:51, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:::::The Final Five aren't boxed, per the podcast. The numbers have no coorrelation to anything yet revealed that I can think of, so any further speculation on the matter is just that, and unsourced to boot. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:07, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::::::Yeah, I meant that Three won't be ordering anyone around because she's boxed and the Final Five won't be ordering around any of the known agents because they're off doing their own thing, whatever that is. Anyway, my point was that they don't really have an incentive to number Cavil, Leoben or Simon right now, but there is a small incentive not to number them without a good reason. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)

== Human/Cylon hybrids ==

"With a single exception, no human-model Cylon has been able to conceive a child (The Farm). It is impossible for two Cylons to reproduce with each other, and as result the Cylons began cross-breeding experiments with humans (who can reproduce easily), which so far has only resulted in the pregnancy of the Caprica-copy of Sharon Valerii. Cylon beliefs attribute this to the apparent inability of Cylons to feel love, which they believe to be a crucial element of the process."

Given the revelations in Crossroads II, I believe that this should be updated to include mention of Nicholas Tyrol, son of Galen and Cally Tyrol. This shouldn't be too much of a spoiler, given that Galen is already revealed as a Cylon on this page.--[[User:TyliumAnalyst|TyliumAnalyst]] 22:59, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

: Yes, I definitely agree with you. If you want to make the edit, feel free. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 07:17, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
:Done. In general, don't hesitate to fix such relatively small things. If you screw up in some way, people will tell you and things can easily be reverted. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:42, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

== The four revealed last season ==

I was just thinking that this page should be rewritten to be less "sure" of who the four most recently revealed Cylons are. We don't really know for sure that they ARE Cylons; they just ''think'' they are. Maybe they've all been altered somehow by the Cylons and that's why they're hearing the radio transmissions. Who knows. There are some other reasons to doubt it. For example, that would make Tyroll's baby a hybrid too.

I'm not saying we should remove them from the list. But there should be a footnote or something. I'll leave that up to someone else, since this is my first time to this site, and I have not yet learned your customs. :)
:--[[User:BevansDesign|BevansDesign]] 21:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
::Ronald D. Moore, the executive producer of the show, has confirmed in an interview that the four really are Cylons. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 21:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
:::In one of the clips from the upcoming season, a Raider seems to "recognize" Anders when they are face-to-face in a space battle, which seems to indicate that their "awakening" has also unlocked some of their inherent Cylon characteristics. Although an actual resurrection would be pretty definitive proof, we have this ... and Ron D. Moore :) -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 22:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

== Organizational relationships ==
The current version of this section isn't completely accurate. The [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005#Guardians|Guardians]] are / were outside the main Cylon hierarchy. The mysterious programmers also seem to be outside of the hierarch (assuming that they are Cylons, and that they're still around). -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

== Thirteenth Tribe Centurions ==

Hello. I just finished adding to the Earth Centurion Model when I noticed something: the Earth Centurions don't have an article, whereas every other type of Cylon does, including Number Seven. What is the amount of information required to be able to make an article? -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 11:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Cylon Models/Archive 1

2009-02-20T11:57:01Z

Federationrulz: /* Thirteenth Tribe Centurions */ new section

Cylon Models

2009-02-20T11:46:03Z

Federationrulz:

:''For information on the [[Original Series]] Cylons, see [[Cylons (TOS)]].''

{{RDM cylons series}}

==The original Cylons==
The first Cylons in the Twelve Colonies, created by [[Daniel Graystone]], were robotic, but looked human.
{{spoiltext|Graystone's daughter [[Zoe Graystone|Zoe]] died in a suicide bombing. After learning that his daughter uploaded her personality into an online avatar before her death, Graystone decided to recreate Zoe as a robot, using technology stolen from his [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]] competitor, [[Tomas Vergis]] with the help of his wife [[Amanda Graystone|Amanda]] and [[Joseph Adama]], whose wife and daughter also died in the same explosion. Zoe-A, the holographic avatar, was downloaded into a robot brain, and thus became Zoe-R, the first cybernetic life-form node, or Cylon. Graystone also created a Cylon version of [[Tamara Adama]], but her father was appalled by it, and decided to repent his actions.}}

==Centurion Model 0005==
[[Image:Cent 005.jpg|thumb|Cylon Centurion during the First Cylon War ([[Razor]])]]
Model Name: Cylon Centurion
:''Main article: [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]]''
The Centurion Model 0005<ref>This model was included in the miniseries primarily as an homage to the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]]. Within the context of the Re-imagined Series, the Model 0005 is over 40 years old, and was the last assumed appearance of the Cylons after the war.</ref>, glimpsed briefly in two scenes of the [[Miniseries]], was apparently the latest Cylon model to have been extensively documented by Colonial authorities after the [[Cylon War]]. It is a primitive model, resembling a short, clumsy humanoid with a single red eye - or as some of the Colonials contemptuously referred to them, "chrome [[toaster]]s". According to [[Saul Tigh]],<ref>From "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html deleted scene]</ref> they had a distinctive "stink" of machine oil.

These models were apparently the instigators of the Cylon rebellion, or their immediate descendants. They fought in all the major engagements of the Cylon War, including the boardings of ''[[Brenik]]'' and ''[[Galactica]]''. A painting by [[Monclair]] depicts a massive melee between early-model Cylons and joint Aerelon-Caprican ground forces.

Not only were these models sentient, they were far from emotionless — in his recollection of the ''Brenik'', [[Saul Tigh]] recalls their vicious tactics in hand-to-hand combat: "The first one was Duncan Raverty. I found him in the corridor. His guts were strewn around on the floor. Y'know, at first I couldn't figure out why the Cylons would bother doing something like that [...] You had to look into their red eye-slit. They hated us. They hated us so much it wasn't enough just to kill us" ("[[Scattered]]", deleted scene).

While remarks by [[Number Six]] in the miniseries state that "those [walking chrome toaster] models are still around. They have their uses," it is most likely that she is referring to the modern Centurions (below), which seem to have replaced the Model 0005 entirely.

A relatively small group of this model survives the "upgrade" on the later destroyed [[Guardian basestar]] ([[Razor]]).

==Modern Centurion==
[[Image:Cento.jpg|thumb|right|Modern Cylon Centurion, evolved from its First Cylon War predecessors.]]
:''Main article: [[Cylon Centurion]]''
The current mainstay of Cylon ground forces, the modern Centurion is a taller, swifter and more agile unit than the Model 0005. Its "fingers" serve as edged weapons in close-quarters combat, and can retract to make way for projectile weapons built into its forearms.

There are apparently two armor configurations - the Centurions encountered by Lt. [[Karl Agathon]] on occupied [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] were susceptible to normal small-arms fire, while a boarding party dispatched to ''Galactica'' in a boarding action could only be impeded by explosive rounds ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

While the earlier Centurion models presumably took a leadership role in their war against the Colonials, modern Centurions appear completely mute and are subservient to the human models. To prevent an uprising of their own, the human models did not design the modern Centurion with any sentience.<ref>Ron Moore, from [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/blogs/ blog] [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/01/#a000114 entries] on January 20th, 2006, confirms "the Centurions are not sentient[,] and their memories/experiences are not downloaded into new bodies when they die." [[William Adama]] notes this to his son in the episode, "[[Exodus, Part I]]."</ref>

==Earth Centurion Models==

After the combined Human/Cylon Fleet arrives on Earth ([[Sometimes a Great Notion]]), an excavation unearths the remains of several Centurions scattered throughout the planet. Although recognizable as Cylon Centurions they represent a model (or models) not constructed by the Colonial Cylons. They eventually rebel against the early generation humanoid cylons, starting a nuclear war. They destroyed the humanoid cylons, most life on the planet, and possibly themselves as well.

==Cylon Spacecraft==
[[image:SCinside2.jpg|thumb|right|[[Kara Thrace]] cuts her way through the biomechanical muscles of the [[Cylon Raider]] in order to get in ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).]]
:''Main article: [[Cylon Spacecraft (RDM)]]''
The current model Cylon Raider is an autonomous craft ([[Miniseries]]), apparently capable of operating at fair distance from any command vessel ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]; [[Final Cut]]). Captain [[Jackson Spencer]], encountering the newer model Cylon Raider for the first time, expresses shock that "nobody's flying these things." Lt. [[Kara Thrace]] later discovers that the Raider she [[Skirmish over the Red Moon|shoots down]] is "alive". She removes most of its organic parts before returning with it to ''Galactica''. [[Sharon Valerii]], a Cylon sleeper agent, guesses that the Raider is a Cylon in its own right, although "more of an animal, maybe, than the human models... like a pet" ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).

[[Sharon Agathon|Another Sharon copy]] confirms that Raiders "[[Resurrection (RDM)|download]]" and reincarnate. She echoes the earlier statement about the animal-like nature of Raiders: "A raider's much like a trained animal, with the basic consciousness and survival instinct."

A [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] is also an integrated blend of flesh and machine ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). The ship is [[Basestar command|commanded by a group of Humanoid Cylons]], and has a living computer, the [[Hybrid]], which is essentially the basestar's brain and takes orders from humanoid models (more on ''Hybrid'' below). Hybrids do not function autonomously.<ref>In both these cases, the distinction between a "Cylon" and their own semi-sentient technology becomes increasingly blurred — interestingly, the same problem that led to the [[Cylon War]] in the first place.</ref>

== Human Models ==
:''Main article: [[Humanoid Cylons]]''
There is an organic humanoid model of Cylon that's almost completely indistinguishable from a human being. [[Final Five|Five]] of these models are actually the descendants of artificial life-forms created by humans on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] thousands of years ago. The others were created by the Five after the [[Cylon War|First Cylon War]] ([[No Exit]]).

The humanoid Cylons have become the quintessential Cylon form. They quietly and effectively infiltrated the Colonial defense forces, with humanoid models such as [[Number Six]] gaining access to secret military technology, and sleeper agents such as [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] being planted within the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] itself. These sleeper agents are programmed with false memories and appear genuine. Unplanned discovery of their true nature can be extremely disturbing for these units, and their behavior is not always predictable.

Only slight chemical differences reveal human from Humanoid Cylon. Humanoid Cylons also apparently differ from humans in two significant ways.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>
[[Image:Sharonspine.jpg|thumb|right|Sharon Valerii conceives a child with [[Karl Agathon]] ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).]]

===Reproductive Difficulties===
It was determined to be impossible for two Cylons to reproduce with each other, and as a result the Cylons begin cross-breeding experiments with humans, which results in the pregnancy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|the Caprica-copy of Sharon Valerii]]. Cylon beliefs attribute this to the love between Valerii and [[Karl Agathon]]. The forceful impregnation of human women however was unsuccessful ([[The Farm]]).

More recently, two Cylon models managed to conceive an as-yet unborn child. The parents of this fully Cylon child are [[Saul Tigh]] and [[Caprica-Six]] ([[Sine Qua Non]]).

The Cylon tribe inhabiting Earth did not have these difficulties, and each of the Final Five were born to Cylon parents ([[No Exit]]).

===Physiology===
[[Image:6spine-ms.jpg|thumb|left|[[Number Six]]'s spine glows during intercourse]]On two occasions, the vertebrae of human-model Cylons have been seen to emit a red glow visible through the skin during sexual intercourse ([[Miniseries]], "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"). On one occasion, the eye of one of the [[Final Five]] is seen to emit a red glow ("[[He That Believeth In Me]]").

Other elements of Cylon humanoid physiology are light-sensitive. Tissues within in their forearms function as [[Cylon data port|data links]] which can be crudely interfaced with Colonial fiber-optic networks ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]), but are primarily for accessing the Cylon optical network known as the [[datastream]] ("[[Torn]]", "[[A Measure of Salvation]]").

Synthetic compounds unique to Cylon physiology ionize when subjected to [[Wikipedia:Plutonium|plutonium]] radiation, forming the basis of Dr. [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]]'s [[Cylon detector]].

Cylon nervous systems possess [[Silica Pathways|silica pathways]]. A legacy of their evolution from mechanical Cylons, this technology remains in the humanoid models. Silica pathways are susceptible to some forms of radiation, such as the one surrounding the [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. Prolonged exposure to such radiation will gradually take a physical toll on a humanoid Cylon ([[Miniseries]], "[[Bastille Day]]"), and possibly impair the resurrection process. With other forms of radiation, humanoid Cylons possess greater (but not complete) resilience against radiation poisoning than humans ([[The Passage]]).

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Known Models===

In the Miniseries, somewhat ambiguous comments by [[Caprica-Six]] and a note left for [[William Adama]] (presumably by [[Gaius Baltar]]) indicate that there were only twelve humanoid models at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].<ref>Humanoid Cylons are constructs, archetypes of human behavior that are not and never were human, as clarified by [[Ronald D. Moore]] in an [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml interview] on "The Chase Show", hosted on the SF webcast news site [http://www.thefandom.com/TheFandom.com TheFandom.com].</ref> The final cylon, [[Ellen Tigh]], was revealed as of the episode "[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]". There was once a thirteenth model, Number Seven, but that was destroyed decades ago by the Number One model.
<gallery>
Image:Tighlon.jpg|[[Saul Tigh]]
Image:Ellen Final Cylon.jpg|[[Ellen Tigh]]
Image:Anders_Cylon.jpg|[[Samuel Anders]]
Image:Tory Cylon.JPG|[[Tory Foster]]
Image:Tyrol Cylon.jpg|[[Galen Tyrol]]
Image:Cavil_closeup.jpg|[[Number One]]
Image:Leoben Headshot.jpg|[[Number Two]]
Image:Number Three Headshot.jpg|[[Number Three]]
Image:Cysim.jpg|[[Number Four]]
Image:Doral.jpg|[[Number Five]]
Image:Six_closeup.jpg|[[Number Six]]
Image:Boomer_closeup.jpg|[[Number Eight]]
</gallery>
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===The "[[final five]]"===

[[Image:TheFinalFive.JPG|right|thumb|300px|The Final Five, as seen in visions by observers.]]
The existence or knowledge of the [[Final five|five remaining models]] appear to be something of a taboo in Cylon society. When Baltar mentions their absence to Caprica-Six he is told not to talk about them. The identities of these five models appear to be suppressed or missing from the Cylons' collective knowledge base.

D'Anna Biers, a Number Three model, believes that the five silhouetted figures she sees in a vision of Kobol's ancient [[Opera House]] while she is in the "space between life and death" prior to [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] are images of the final five.

Inside the [[Temple of Five]], D'Anna Biers manages to return to the "space between life and death" and sees the faces of the five and retains her memories of them for the first time. She apologizes to one of the five while she is in their presence. When she returns from her vision, she promptly dies before she can reveal who she saw. Biers's consciousness, along with those of all other Three models, is [[boxing|boxed]] to suppress knowledge of the five, until she is unboxed and subsequently rescued by the alliance of humans and Cylon renegades ("[[Rapture]]", "[[The Hub]]").

As [[Saul Tigh]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] approached the [[Ionian nebula]], a strange [[The Music|event]] brings them physically together to realize that they are Cylons. [[Ellen Tigh]] was revealed as the final Cylon model in a memory of Saul Tigh's past life ([[Sometimes a Great Notion]]). The Final Five are the only survivors of an entire civilization of humanoid Cylons that once existed on Earth. They are responsible for creating the other eight ([[No Exit]]).

===Hybrids===
:''Main articles: [[Hybrid]], [[First Hybrid]]''
[[Image:Hybrid.jpg|thumb|left|A Hybrid speaking "nonsense".]]

In addition to the humanoid Cylons, there is a type that is partly humanoid known as the Hybrids. Not to be confused with the Cylon/human hybrid child [[Hera Agathon]], the Hybrids aboard basestars resemble [[humanoid Cylon]]s, but are another type of Cylon similar to the autonomous bio-mechanical [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]]. They are specially constructed living computers that manage the autonomic functions of the basestar. The Hybrids are so integrated into the basestar's functionality that they ''are'', for all practical purposes, the basestar. [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] claims that development of the Hybrids was abandoned after the version used on modern baseships was created ([[Razor]]).

[[Image:First Hybrid.png|thumb|right|The First Hybrid]]

The [[First Hybrid]] created from the Cylons' experimentation with human beings possesses many of the same traits that the modern Hybrids exhibit, only with a few distinct differences. The First Hybrid, although it possesses the same metaphysical perception as its descendants, is considerably more lucid and speaks in coherent, though slightly ambiguous, sentences. Like the modern Hybrids, the First Hybrid functions as the central computer of its [[Guardian basestar|basestar]], but it also appears to function as the basestar's command and control, given the absence of modern humanoid Cylons aboard. While Athena claims the First Hybrid is an evolutionary dead-end and was abandoned by the Cylons, the Hybrid itself claims that its "children" see it as a god. The First Hybrid was destroyed along with its basestar in the [[Battle of the Guardian basestar]], and it is currently unknown whether or not it was the only one of its kind.
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===Organizational Relationships===

The humanoid models, as the most evolved form of Cylon, are in charge of all other models, such as the Centurions, Raiders, and Hybrids. [[Caprica-Six]]'s statement in "[[Downloaded]]" that Cylon culture is based on unity and that celebrities such as herself are something new implies that there is no single leader <ref>Like the [[Imperious Leader]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].</ref>.

Instead, each model is equal in terms of power and authority and the Cylons make critical decisions based on consensus, or failing that, majority opinion. One or two representatives from each available model gather and discuss matters in a forum-like environment, then hold a vote on what course of action to take. Each model gets one vote that appears to represent the opinion of every copy of that model. Exceptions to this occur in the episode "[[Precipice]]", when Caprica-Six disagrees with the other Sixes, and in the episode "[[Six of One]]", when [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] gives a vote opposed to that of the other Eights. The Centurions, Raiders and the [[Hybrid|baseship Hybrids]] are not permitted a vote in the decision making process ("[[Occupation]]" through "[[A Measure of Salvation]]").

One instance where a [[Number Three]] model goes against the collective will of her fellow models and ultimately imposes her will over the rest is considered so radical that every Number Three copy is [[boxing|boxed]] for disrupting the unity of the Cylon race ("[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", "[[Rapture]]").

Unlike the modern Hybrids, [[First Hybrid|the first Hybrid]] appears to exert independent control over its own [[Guardian basestar|basestar]] and [[Guardians|Cylon Centurions]]. The Hybrid claims that his "children" consider him to be a god. The exact meaning behind this statement is not yet known ([[Razor]]).

As of the [[Cylon Civil War]], the race has split into two factions with clear leaders. One was originally led by the Number Six [[Natalie]], and now by the last surviving [[Number Three]]. The other faction is led by the Number One called Cavil.

==References==
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[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]