Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Silver Spar Squadron

2008-01-25T22:27:26Z

Expatkiwi: New page: '''Silver Spar Squadron''' was based on the Battlestar Pegasus (TOS). Commanded by Cain's daughter Sheba, the squadron was first shown in the TOS episode The Living Legend. The...

'''Silver Spar Squadron''' was based on the Battlestar Pegasus (TOS). Commanded by Cain's daughter [[Sheba]], the squadron was first shown in the TOS episode [[The Living Legend]].

The squadron insignia (a winged silver spar on a red shield) is also the insignia of the Battlestar PEGASUS itself, and appears on the exteriors of its vipers (just below the cockpit sill).

Talk:Razor/Archive2

2007-12-29T20:30:43Z

Expatkiwi:

{{ArchiveTOC}}

==The first Hybrid's "children"==
I can think of several possibilities:
*The Guardians
*The humanoid Cylons
*The other Hybrids
*Cylons in general
-- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:27, 25 November 2007 (CST)

== To-do list ==

Most major things have been done already, but there are some left (add if you can think of anything):

*<strike>Updating [[Peter Laird]]</strike>
*Finding out who [[Riggs]] and [[Frank Bruno]] are and updating the articles
*<strike>Adding some other lines to Noteworthy Dialogue</strike>
*<strike>Adding such dialogue to [[Razor Flashbacks]]. Not much to go on, but the "[[nothing but the rain]]" exchange between Adama and McGavin is good.</strike>

Razor analysis and questions will probably be done without much effort. The most major thing is getting pictures, but we better wait for DVD to do that. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 03:07, 26 November 2007 (CST)
:Riggs is the marine Kendra gives a hard time to after his squad does a weapons assembly drill. Bruno only appears in the DVD, AFAIK. He's the guy who talks to Kendra in the "coffee tent," before she posts to Pegasus. He also appears in a deleted scene with Lee. --[[User:Mmm...toasty|Mmm...toasty]] 11:48, 6 December 2007 (CST)
::Nice. Thanks :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:59, 6 December 2007 (CST)

==Razor Acts and Teaser==
I've finished writing the Pegasus timeline for Razor. I know it's pretty long, but keep in mind that not only is it a double-episode, the content is extremely compressed, so it was hard to shorten it up. For future reference, I have added an invisible note at the bottom of the Razor summary detailing the Razor Teaser, and a breakdown of where each act begins and ends. Additionally, I am including another copy here.

*Teaser
**We see only Shaw’s hand as she opens and closes Cain’s knife. She rubs her fingers along the blade, careful not to get hurt. She talks about the importance of living with your decisions, and the cycle of life, and how there are no second chances. The word “RAZOR” flashes across the screen.
**We now see a series of flashbacks, periodically edited in with shots of Shaw caressing Cain’s knife. The first to appear is the discovery of the Pegasus by the Fleet ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]). We then see Gina being whipped by Thorne (a new scene), and we hear Baltar’s voice comforting her, telling her that what she needs is justice. Next we see Gina holding the gun to Cain’s head. We hear the gun go off, and then we immediately see her funeral, with Fisk giving the eulogy ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]). Next we see Fisk being garroted and then Adama and Tigh talking about promoting Garner ([[Black Market]]). Next we see the scene where the enemy baseships jump ahead of the Pegasus, and Garner dies saving the ship. We see Apollo promoted to commander ([[The Captain's Hand]]).
**Finally we hear Shaw again, talking about how you are the choices you make in life, followed by the opening titles.

::Don't use things like "we see". If anything write "the viewer sees". But best is a more neutral voice like "Shaw says" or "Shaw's hand". The rest isn't really needed at all. I don't think it's necessary to summarize the flashbacks designed to bring viewers up to speed. Shaw's monologue should be enough. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:29, 26 November 2007 (CST)

*Act 1
**Begins after opening titles.
**Ends after Shaw is promoted to major.
*Act 2
**Begins as Shaw is drilling Colonial Marines on rifle assembly aboard Pegasus.
**Ends as the Pegasus crew is shouting “So Say We All!”
*Act 3
**Begins as the Pegasus senior staff is discussing the communication relay.
**Ends as the first Cylon salvos strike Pegasus.
*Act 4
**Begins as Belzen is being taken to the morgue.
**Ends after the First Cylon War flashback, as Adama and Roslin look over the original Cylon Raider.
*Act 5
**Begins as Roslin, Apollo and Adama discuss the Guardian basestar.
**Ends after the massacre aboard the Scylla.
*Act 6
**Begins as the Scylla boarding party is leaving the ship.
**Ends as the Centurion Model 0005’s are coordinating with each other aboard the Cylon Raider.
*Act 7
**Begins as Red Squad is floating in space.
**Ends after the Guardian basestar explodes.
*Act 8
**Begins as Apollo and Adama are discussing Cain and Shaw posthumously.
**Ends at credits.
--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:52, 26 November 2007 (CST)

:Alright I've taken that part out. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:39, 26 November 2007 (CST)

== Doral in Razor? ==

Is it me, or is the guy in a suit (security?) seen shortly behind Cain at the beginning of the conference in her quarters a [[Number Five]]? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 12:56, 29 November 2007 (CST)
: I did a double take myself when I saw that... but it isn't Doral. It's apparently just a crew member who is dressed as a butler for the dinner occasion. (For Doral's appearance in "Razor", he's in a scene where he notifies Bill Adama that Lee will be doing the flyby during the decommissioning ceremony.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 13:01, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:They look somewhat similar, but you can tell it's not really him. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:05, 29 November 2007 (CST)

== Hair color? ==

Is it just me, or is Cain's hair color different in this appearance than it was in the previous season two episodes? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 19:42, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:Positrons... heisenberg hair color uncertainty principle... yeah. It appears darker offhand. [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=53&pos=3 New hair] vs [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=53&pos=3 Old hair]--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:03, 29 November 2007 (CST)
::Didn't we talk about this already? :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:26, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:::I mentioned it in our Gtalk conversation. LOL -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 20:37, 29 November 2007 (CST)
::::Not just the color, but the style, too. She looks more feminine and less severe. Maybe she decides later that curlers and color treatments are not combat considerations :) --[[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 16:51, 30 November 2007 (CST)

== New Razor article? ==

It's like what I say in the header, though to specify: are we going to have another article for the extended/unrated version of "Razor" like with what we did with "[[Pegasus (Extended Version)|Pegasus]]", or are we just going to drop everything under the same article? I'd like to know before any integration of new material from the extended version goes into here. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:16, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:Isn't it just 15 minutes more material? Given the length of 1.5 hours, that's not so much. The summary is already pretty long, but since it's not that much new stuff, we could include it in this article I think. And then mark it somehow, for example with "(*)". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:20, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::I have the DVD for two weeks now (a week before release) and it's not that much of a difference. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:22, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::No need to have an extended version of the page. We should just note what happens in these extended scenes, note that they are extended, and we'll be fine. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 12:44, 5 December 2007 (CST)
Well, I wasn't advocating a new page. I just wanted to make sure no one was going to create one before we started adding the extra material in - which I'm surprised no one has started yet. I do think there should be something specific about there being two versions, though. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 16:29, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:Could be placed in the overview section. There it can also be explained how the DVD scenes are marked. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:30, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::I we do include the extra scenes into this main article, we should mark them as being on the dvd only. I got my copy last night and saw the changes. They're not a lot "length-wise", but in general story telling, it does add in a lot. It definitely explains more about Cain's psyche and explains her motives to fight instead of run. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 09:09, 6 December 2007 (CST)

== Split Idea ==

We should move the analysis and the production notes to two different pages. They make this one page, way to long to begin with. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:Yeah. Similar to the Miniseries a [[Razor, Analysis]] or maybe [[Razor/Analysis]] article would probably be better, since the summary is very long. Splitting off the official statements is a good idea too. I'd keep notes and maybe dialogue though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:12, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::What if we create a template where users can easily select which articles they wish to view (in addition to the ''Main article'' links you suggest on the page)? That way we can combine this article and whatever we choose to disjoin from it, along with the [[Razor Flashbacks]] and Razor DVD (both [[Razor (Region 1 DVD)|1]] & [[Razor (Region 2 DVD)|2]]) pages all into one nice neat little package. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:53, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:::Basically, the idea wouldn't work... there's no way to dynamically cherry pick and select what you want to read, at least not with the MediaWiki software. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:36, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:::(Update.) OrionFour, I did run with your suggestion however, as you can see [[Razor/Full Article|here]], which integrates the main article with the sub articles for the complete page. However, there's still no way for a user to dynamically pick what they want. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 10:58, 16 December 2007 (CST)
: Yeah, we can split off the notes, analysis, and statements into their own separate sub-article. That'd work. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:36, 11 December 2007 (CST)
: I strongly disagree. Unlike the miniseries, there's no logical breakpoint, and having analysis and synopsis on different pages is irritating and confusing - I'm personally glad we abandoned the practice with the miniseries articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:29, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::Well, the article is a bit too long. I moved the official statements to a subpage, since that can easily be put elsewhere. If we don't want to do that with analysis and notes too (which are very important), we could also move the dialogue. Then the article wouldn't really be short, but manageable I think. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:37, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::: The dialogue does take up a lot of the page, so we can probably move that to a seperate sub-page as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 17:00, 11 December 2007 (CST)

Any more comments on this? I moved official statements and dialogue to subpages. The article is still long, but fine I think. So as far as I am concerned, we don't need additional splits/moves. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:46, 16 December 2007 (CST)
: The article is fine now. I've gone through and removed the split templates from the main page. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 09:58, 16 December 2007 (CST)

== Merge: DVD ==

Shouldn't we move this to the DVD page? Kinda of irrlenevent here since it's not what was offically shown on TV? This is more like a bouns of the DVD, not Razor TV showing itself. A link should still be provided. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:For me it's the same as the extended version of "Pegasus". The long version is the definite one. Besides, the additions are clearly separated, so you can easily see what's only on DVD. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:12, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:Incorrect. The longer version is the "default" canonical one, since it is considered by the people behind the show to be the definitive version. Same thing goes for the extended version of "Pegasus" as Serenity said. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)

== Gemenese ==

Did I hear correctly that someone mentioned the Gemenese collaborated during the First Cylon War? Maybe when Adama was on the ice planet. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 16:24, 18 December 2007 (CST)
: Never heard that... You may be thinking of the ''[[Diana]]'', a ship from Gemenon that the the Cylons captured for their [[hybrid]] experiments. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:44, 18 December 2007 (CST)
:Huh? (pardon the pun). They were ''abducted''; as Joe said. What about those medical experiments looked even the least bit voluntary? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:45, 18 December 2007 (CST)
::My PC speakers aren't the best. But I thought one of the captives mentioned it very quickly. I must be wrong. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 11:44, 20 December 2007 (CST)

== Colonial Officers - compromising one's credo ==

The Colonial military must have a different creed for their officer corps. I am a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAFR, and one of the first things that I learned was that the military was for the protection of the nation - and by extention, the citizens. And as the officer corps is responsible to ensure that this creed is upheld, seeing officers in "Razor" comply with an illegal order to kill people on the SCYILLA because these people wanted protection, and not be plundered in an act of piracy, is abhorrent. Lt. Shaw was understandably not happy about complying with the order, but if she had any integrity, she would not only have declined the promotion to Captain from Admiral Cain, she would have also resigned her commission and told Cain that she was nothing more than a corsair. [[Expatkiwi|Expatkiwi]] 12:28, 29 December 2007 (PST)

Talk:Razor/Archive2

2007-12-29T20:28:52Z

Expatkiwi:

{{ArchiveTOC}}

==The first Hybrid's "children"==
I can think of several possibilities:
*The Guardians
*The humanoid Cylons
*The other Hybrids
*Cylons in general
-- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:27, 25 November 2007 (CST)

== To-do list ==

Most major things have been done already, but there are some left (add if you can think of anything):

*<strike>Updating [[Peter Laird]]</strike>
*Finding out who [[Riggs]] and [[Frank Bruno]] are and updating the articles
*<strike>Adding some other lines to Noteworthy Dialogue</strike>
*<strike>Adding such dialogue to [[Razor Flashbacks]]. Not much to go on, but the "[[nothing but the rain]]" exchange between Adama and McGavin is good.</strike>

Razor analysis and questions will probably be done without much effort. The most major thing is getting pictures, but we better wait for DVD to do that. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 03:07, 26 November 2007 (CST)
:Riggs is the marine Kendra gives a hard time to after his squad does a weapons assembly drill. Bruno only appears in the DVD, AFAIK. He's the guy who talks to Kendra in the "coffee tent," before she posts to Pegasus. He also appears in a deleted scene with Lee. --[[User:Mmm...toasty|Mmm...toasty]] 11:48, 6 December 2007 (CST)
::Nice. Thanks :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:59, 6 December 2007 (CST)

==Razor Acts and Teaser==
I've finished writing the Pegasus timeline for Razor. I know it's pretty long, but keep in mind that not only is it a double-episode, the content is extremely compressed, so it was hard to shorten it up. For future reference, I have added an invisible note at the bottom of the Razor summary detailing the Razor Teaser, and a breakdown of where each act begins and ends. Additionally, I am including another copy here.

*Teaser
**We see only Shaw’s hand as she opens and closes Cain’s knife. She rubs her fingers along the blade, careful not to get hurt. She talks about the importance of living with your decisions, and the cycle of life, and how there are no second chances. The word “RAZOR” flashes across the screen.
**We now see a series of flashbacks, periodically edited in with shots of Shaw caressing Cain’s knife. The first to appear is the discovery of the Pegasus by the Fleet ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]). We then see Gina being whipped by Thorne (a new scene), and we hear Baltar’s voice comforting her, telling her that what she needs is justice. Next we see Gina holding the gun to Cain’s head. We hear the gun go off, and then we immediately see her funeral, with Fisk giving the eulogy ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]). Next we see Fisk being garroted and then Adama and Tigh talking about promoting Garner ([[Black Market]]). Next we see the scene where the enemy baseships jump ahead of the Pegasus, and Garner dies saving the ship. We see Apollo promoted to commander ([[The Captain's Hand]]).
**Finally we hear Shaw again, talking about how you are the choices you make in life, followed by the opening titles.

::Don't use things like "we see". If anything write "the viewer sees". But best is a more neutral voice like "Shaw says" or "Shaw's hand". The rest isn't really needed at all. I don't think it's necessary to summarize the flashbacks designed to bring viewers up to speed. Shaw's monologue should be enough. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:29, 26 November 2007 (CST)

*Act 1
**Begins after opening titles.
**Ends after Shaw is promoted to major.
*Act 2
**Begins as Shaw is drilling Colonial Marines on rifle assembly aboard Pegasus.
**Ends as the Pegasus crew is shouting “So Say We All!”
*Act 3
**Begins as the Pegasus senior staff is discussing the communication relay.
**Ends as the first Cylon salvos strike Pegasus.
*Act 4
**Begins as Belzen is being taken to the morgue.
**Ends after the First Cylon War flashback, as Adama and Roslin look over the original Cylon Raider.
*Act 5
**Begins as Roslin, Apollo and Adama discuss the Guardian basestar.
**Ends after the massacre aboard the Scylla.
*Act 6
**Begins as the Scylla boarding party is leaving the ship.
**Ends as the Centurion Model 0005’s are coordinating with each other aboard the Cylon Raider.
*Act 7
**Begins as Red Squad is floating in space.
**Ends after the Guardian basestar explodes.
*Act 8
**Begins as Apollo and Adama are discussing Cain and Shaw posthumously.
**Ends at credits.
--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:52, 26 November 2007 (CST)

:Alright I've taken that part out. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:39, 26 November 2007 (CST)

== Doral in Razor? ==

Is it me, or is the guy in a suit (security?) seen shortly behind Cain at the beginning of the conference in her quarters a [[Number Five]]? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 12:56, 29 November 2007 (CST)
: I did a double take myself when I saw that... but it isn't Doral. It's apparently just a crew member who is dressed as a butler for the dinner occasion. (For Doral's appearance in "Razor", he's in a scene where he notifies Bill Adama that Lee will be doing the flyby during the decommissioning ceremony.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 13:01, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:They look somewhat similar, but you can tell it's not really him. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:05, 29 November 2007 (CST)

== Hair color? ==

Is it just me, or is Cain's hair color different in this appearance than it was in the previous season two episodes? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 19:42, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:Positrons... heisenberg hair color uncertainty principle... yeah. It appears darker offhand. [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=53&pos=3 New hair] vs [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=53&pos=3 Old hair]--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:03, 29 November 2007 (CST)
::Didn't we talk about this already? :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:26, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:::I mentioned it in our Gtalk conversation. LOL -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 20:37, 29 November 2007 (CST)
::::Not just the color, but the style, too. She looks more feminine and less severe. Maybe she decides later that curlers and color treatments are not combat considerations :) --[[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 16:51, 30 November 2007 (CST)

== New Razor article? ==

It's like what I say in the header, though to specify: are we going to have another article for the extended/unrated version of "Razor" like with what we did with "[[Pegasus (Extended Version)|Pegasus]]", or are we just going to drop everything under the same article? I'd like to know before any integration of new material from the extended version goes into here. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:16, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:Isn't it just 15 minutes more material? Given the length of 1.5 hours, that's not so much. The summary is already pretty long, but since it's not that much new stuff, we could include it in this article I think. And then mark it somehow, for example with "(*)". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:20, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::I have the DVD for two weeks now (a week before release) and it's not that much of a difference. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:22, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::No need to have an extended version of the page. We should just note what happens in these extended scenes, note that they are extended, and we'll be fine. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 12:44, 5 December 2007 (CST)
Well, I wasn't advocating a new page. I just wanted to make sure no one was going to create one before we started adding the extra material in - which I'm surprised no one has started yet. I do think there should be something specific about there being two versions, though. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 16:29, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:Could be placed in the overview section. There it can also be explained how the DVD scenes are marked. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:30, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::I we do include the extra scenes into this main article, we should mark them as being on the dvd only. I got my copy last night and saw the changes. They're not a lot "length-wise", but in general story telling, it does add in a lot. It definitely explains more about Cain's psyche and explains her motives to fight instead of run. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 09:09, 6 December 2007 (CST)

== Split Idea ==

We should move the analysis and the production notes to two different pages. They make this one page, way to long to begin with. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:Yeah. Similar to the Miniseries a [[Razor, Analysis]] or maybe [[Razor/Analysis]] article would probably be better, since the summary is very long. Splitting off the official statements is a good idea too. I'd keep notes and maybe dialogue though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:12, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::What if we create a template where users can easily select which articles they wish to view (in addition to the ''Main article'' links you suggest on the page)? That way we can combine this article and whatever we choose to disjoin from it, along with the [[Razor Flashbacks]] and Razor DVD (both [[Razor (Region 1 DVD)|1]] & [[Razor (Region 2 DVD)|2]]) pages all into one nice neat little package. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:53, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:::Basically, the idea wouldn't work... there's no way to dynamically cherry pick and select what you want to read, at least not with the MediaWiki software. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:36, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:::(Update.) OrionFour, I did run with your suggestion however, as you can see [[Razor/Full Article|here]], which integrates the main article with the sub articles for the complete page. However, there's still no way for a user to dynamically pick what they want. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 10:58, 16 December 2007 (CST)
: Yeah, we can split off the notes, analysis, and statements into their own separate sub-article. That'd work. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:36, 11 December 2007 (CST)
: I strongly disagree. Unlike the miniseries, there's no logical breakpoint, and having analysis and synopsis on different pages is irritating and confusing - I'm personally glad we abandoned the practice with the miniseries articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:29, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::Well, the article is a bit too long. I moved the official statements to a subpage, since that can easily be put elsewhere. If we don't want to do that with analysis and notes too (which are very important), we could also move the dialogue. Then the article wouldn't really be short, but manageable I think. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:37, 11 December 2007 (CST)
::: The dialogue does take up a lot of the page, so we can probably move that to a seperate sub-page as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 17:00, 11 December 2007 (CST)

Any more comments on this? I moved official statements and dialogue to subpages. The article is still long, but fine I think. So as far as I am concerned, we don't need additional splits/moves. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:46, 16 December 2007 (CST)
: The article is fine now. I've gone through and removed the split templates from the main page. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 09:58, 16 December 2007 (CST)

== Merge: DVD ==

Shouldn't we move this to the DVD page? Kinda of irrlenevent here since it's not what was offically shown on TV? This is more like a bouns of the DVD, not Razor TV showing itself. A link should still be provided. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:For me it's the same as the extended version of "Pegasus". The long version is the definite one. Besides, the additions are clearly separated, so you can easily see what's only on DVD. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:12, 11 December 2007 (CST)
:Incorrect. The longer version is the "default" canonical one, since it is considered by the people behind the show to be the definitive version. Same thing goes for the extended version of "Pegasus" as Serenity said. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:33, 11 December 2007 (CST)

== Gemenese ==

Did I hear correctly that someone mentioned the Gemenese collaborated during the First Cylon War? Maybe when Adama was on the ice planet. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 16:24, 18 December 2007 (CST)
: Never heard that... You may be thinking of the ''[[Diana]]'', a ship from Gemenon that the the Cylons captured for their [[hybrid]] experiments. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:44, 18 December 2007 (CST)
:Huh? (pardon the pun). They were ''abducted''; as Joe said. What about those medical experiments looked even the least bit voluntary? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:45, 18 December 2007 (CST)
::My PC speakers aren't the best. But I thought one of the captives mentioned it very quickly. I must be wrong. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 11:44, 20 December 2007 (CST)

== Colonial Officers - compromising one's credo ==

The Colonial military must have a different creed for their officer corps. I am a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAFR, and one of the first things that I learned was that the military was for the protection of the nation - and by extention, the citizens. And as the officer corps is responsible to ensure that this creed is upheld, seeing officers in [i]Razor[/i] comply with an illegal order to kill people on the SCYILLA because these people wanted protection, and not be plundered in an act of piracy, is abhorrent. Lt. Shaw was understandably not happy about complying with the order, but if she had any integrity, she would not only have declined the promotion to Captain from Admiral Cain, she would have also resigned her commission and told Cain that she was nothing more than a corsair. [[Expatkiwi|Expatkiwi]] 12:28, 29 December 2007 (PST)

Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)/Archive3

2007-12-28T00:58:57Z

Expatkiwi:

{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 1
| number = 1
| items = {{archive-item|1|Specialist Cally}} {{archive-item|1|Adama ≠ Fleet Admrial}} {{archive-item|1|How Many Admirals}} {{archive-item|1|Insignia}} {{archive-item|1|Tyrol & Hadrian}} {{archive-item|1|"Gunny"}} {{archive-item|1|Second Chart}} {{archive-item|1| Back to Officer Ranks...}} {{archive-item|1|Piping}} {{archive-item|1|Colorization|end=Y}}
|}}
{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 2
| number = 2
| items = {{archive-item|2|Abbreviations}} {{archive-item|2|Rank Pins}} {{archive-item|2|General update of the page}} {{archive-item|2|Gold Bars}} {{archive-item|2|Assumptions}} {{archive-item|2|USAF?}} {{archive-item|2|Commander equals more to USN Captain, my argument}} {{archive-item|2|Idea for updated comparison list}} {{archive-item|2|Impressive Page, 1 Nitpick about dense chart|end=Y}}
|}}

__TOC__

== Number ==

Shouldn't Commander be listed as O-7 and Rear Admiral as O-8? Not even getting into the debate over the officer/flag officer status of the Commander rank (although it could go either way (the Colonial forces could have seven officer ranks)), but why is it listed as N/A? It's clearly higher than Colonel, which is O-6. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 21:05, 26 November 2006 (CST)
:The numbers correspond with the US ranks, not the BSG ranks. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:13, 27 November 2006 (CST)

== PO3 ==

I understand the note about Venner, since PO3 and Cpl are equivalent, but the page itself does quote RDM who says that there is no PO3 grade. How can the page be modified to show this? --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]]•[[User talk:Kevin W.|So say we all]] 18:27, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:Mhh, you're right. Though I don't consider that one blog entry as the very last word on it. Ideas might have changed a bit by now. Who knows.
:Anyways, the list incluces PO3 mainly for the sake of completion I guess. It does say that some aspects of the table are speculative and that was always ok. You could add a footnote, like done for all other annotations. Then the explination shows up under "references". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== New information ==

There's an article that is a few months old on galactica.tv about the pins and symbols of the uniforms [http://www.galactica.tv/battlestar-galactica-2003---news/rank-insignia-and-symbolism-analysis-for-battlestar-galactica-2003-update.html here]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 08:56, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
:The new information is really the tiny details that are available from of the pins. Our insignia pictures are from that very same rank chart, so the information is already reflected, except for the narrower Lt.j.g. pin. I can update that later. We just have drawings instead of photographs which is somewhat cleaner however. Maybe the great photo of the Commander pin could be included somehow? (like "more images").
:Maybe the information on the other uniform devices could be put on [[Uniforms (RDM)]] though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:10, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
:: Sounds good. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 09:30, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

== Recent round of edits ==

I got caught up in this again. If I come off as harsh or all to superior, I'm really sorry, but I think this page is pretty good as it is. And all the rest is really pretty nitpicky.

I think it comes down to to different approaches:
#That the whole comparison to modern militaries (specifically the US Navy) is overdone.
#Some people seem to be more interested having a close to perfect comparison. Nothing wrong with that.

Personally, I'm clearly in camp 1. Sure there are many parallels. But it's not exactly the same. So this page shouldn't be forced to do something that just isn't there. And in the last major overhauls I tried to excise many of the unnecessary comparisons and make more BSG arguments for things. As it stands, we have reasonable good evidence (sometimes conjectural) that commander more closely resembles a modern captain. Like it doesn't seem to be considered a flag rank; and Roslin also seems to imply that she sees Adama as captain in "Resurrection Ship, Part II". The rest is just made fit as best as possible. Putting Lt. opposed to Lt. make most sense, and so that leaves one rank free. It's not all that clear, but it's there.

So how do other people feel about this? Not so much about the details, but the whole approach of the article. Is the US Navy thing really that important? Should the article be more about BSG? Should we maybe just ditch the comparison if it's so troublesome and not perfect anyways? I think we can keep it, but it just needs to be clear that it's not supposed to be 1:1. I updated the introduction further to try to reflect that. Maybe I'm just too invested here, because I made a lot substantial edits to it, but I also don't like if people just change substantial things, when we had a sort-of consensus about it.

To the people who made those edits: I know you are new. I know that you haven't read everything. And I really don't want to seem overly harsh to you. That's why I'm trying to explain and discuss this here. :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:44, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

== Why not just scrap the US Naval Rank column ==

Absent anything from Ron Moore or the writer's bible, it's all speculation and guesstimation. The only salient comparisons within the RDM Galactica universe would be Fleet vs. Marines. The "Official Statement" is self-explanatory. And like a lot of good fiction, sometimes it's best to leave some details to the individual's own imagination ... {{unsigned|Fredmdbud}}

:Yeah, I'm just about ready do that. We can also keep it, but people just have to realize that it won't fit perfectly. It's a rough guideline, but nothing more. I've inserted two paragraphs now that point that out, without actually hitting the reader of the head.
:That whole part is really from the very first version of this article, that was actually more about finding arguments for that comparison table than documenting the BSG universe. Sure you can make a table that lines all up 1:1, but after some discussion most people felt that there are more points to compare the BSG rank of commander to a real world captain, and the rest is built around that. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:38, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

::My only concern with deleting it is that it's the type of thing that might get periodically re-added by passers-by. I'd advise some note on the article to head that off, but I have doubts as to whether that would be heeded. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:55, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
:::True. And while it's not that important, there is some merit to the comparison. It shouldn't be taken ''too'' seriously (pot.kettle.black. ;)), but some people are probably interested to know where certain ranks fall. In retrospect I realize that while there were explanations for certain ranks, there was no explanation for the overall structure. That was an oversight that is hopefully corrected now. We can't expect people to read long arguments on the talk pages to understand how some things are decided, and parts of this article were just presented "as is" without clarification. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:27, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

==Room for other ranks?==

It is hard to beleive that the ranks shown thus far are the only ones. There would logically be something like Midshipman for officer trainees and Lieutenant-Colonel. If so, the Midshipman grad would be easy to figure out (a white diamond), though Lt. Col would be a little more difficult, given the differences between the Colonel and Major insignia. Just a thought... [[User:Expatkiwi|Expatkiwi]] 16:58, 27 December 2007 (PST)

Talk:Battlestar Group/Archive 1

2007-12-27T04:27:42Z

Expatkiwi: ship, not group identifier

== ''Galactica'' as lead ship ==

Do we actually know that ''Galactica'' was the lead ship of BSG-75? With Adama only being a Commander and not an Admiral that doesn't have to be the case. And since ''Galactica'' was to be retired, the group was probably led from some other ship or ''Galactica'' wasn't even part of a standing group anymore. "Hero" also states that ''Galactica'' was supposed to be his retiring command, and command of a whole BS Group doesn't go so well with that. 
In any case I removed the rank from Adama's name there, since Battlestar Groups don't really exist anymore. And even if ''Galactica'' was the lead ship he was only a Commander then --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:45, 11 December 2006 (CST)

== Misc ==

The designation Battlestar Group 75 would have no more relation to the hull number of a BattleStar then that if US Navy ship to the Task Force number it was assigned to. Example Task Force 38 (WW-II) was the same ships as Task Force 58, all that changed was which Admiral was in charge. Similar statements can be made for AirGroups.

== Group ==

''"Curiously, Aaron Doral states that Galactica was one of the original 12 Battlestars built during the early days of the Cylon War, which makes this designation number curiously high."''

Um...not really. For example, the first airborne unit in the US Army was the 82nd Airborne Division - it doesn't mean that there were 81 airborne diivsions before it, it meant that it was the 82nd division of the Army, and that it was designed to operate airborne. The 75th Battlestar Group might have been the 75th group in the Colonial Fleet, but the first one to have battlestars in it. And there's no reason that the Galactica couldn't have been shuffled around to other, or newer, Fleet units, especially given what we know happened after the end of the war. Someone should change this articvle to reflect that. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 15:23, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

: We may also want to keep an eye out tonight to see what Battlestar Group the ''Pegasus'' was a part of. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 15:47, 23 September 2005 (EDT)
:: I believe their uniforms said [[62nd Battlestar Group]] - can anyone who taped it confirm? [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:35, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
:::I have it on tape but I cannot tell; the crest is on screen so it is "canonical" but it's too fuzzy to see. I've only got it on regular tape so I can't DVD zoom or anything. Maybe it's displayed on their flight deck: I noticed that "BSG-75" is emblazoned on the flight deck of ''Galactica'' (look when Raptors land). However, I don't know if we have a shot of someone landing on ''Pegasus''. A good question for RDM's blog? ---Ricimer, 24 Sept, 2005

Do we know for certain that it HAS to be an acronym? US battleships were given the prefix BB - obviously not battleship. Carriers are CV - C for carrier, V for "heavier than air aircraft" obviously not an acronym. Perhaps Battlestar is a class and BSG stands for something else. It could also be certianly used to explain the number sequencing too - ie Galactica being number 12 of the original Battlestars, but having the number 75.

:Actually, those hull numbers are classification. For the base type of a hull, its just the first letter repeated (hence, BB for Battleship, DD for Destroyer, etc.) Roles of the basic class are indicated by changing the second letter. Futher variants are described by adding a third letter. In the case of aircraft carriers, the ship's primary classification is Cruiser, giving it a base classification of CC, however, aircraft carriers are special-purpose cruisers. In their case, the word chosen to describe their role was Aviation, for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, in the early 20th century when this schema was enacted, CA was already taken by Cruiser - Armoured, or heavily armored cruisers, so the Navy used the second letter, V, as the type designator for the aircraft carrier classification, yielding the now-familiar CV (and later, CVE, CVA, CVN, etc.) If we were to assume that BSG is a hull classification as opposed to a taskforce number, using the US Navy naming convention (other countries and planets actual mileage may vary), it would translate to Battleship (B) Scout (S) Guided Missile (G), or a Battleship built for a scouting role armed with Guided Missiles. Obviously that doesn't describe [[Galactica]] by any stretch of the imagination, so either 1) BSG is in fact a taskforce number, 2) BSG-75 is Galactica's hull number using some hitherto unknown scheme (like Star Trek's NCC/NAR/NX system), or 3) it has some other meaning not covered here. --[[User:Bronzite|Bronzite]] 16:29, 21 December 2005 (EDT)

::It has been confirmed that "BSG" stands for "BattleStar Group". The crest of Galactica says "BSG-75" and in episode #2, "[[Water]]", we see a chart that has a schematic of the ship on it, and on this chart is written out "Battlestar Group 75". Mind you, we don't know how the NUMBERING system works; i.e. there were 120 Battlestars before the attack, so who knows how many were in a "group" (i.e. is there a group "79" or are there 7 main branches under different admirals, and WITHIN these oversector groups we then have individual grouaps, 1 through 5? (thus the seventh admiral commands 5 groups?)--->This is baseless speculation. I'm just saying that we DO know what "BSG" stands for, but we have no idea how the number corresponds. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:55, 21 December 2005 (EST)
:::Well, the nameplate on the outside of Galactica is marked "BS-75", likewise the Pegasus is "BS-63" as seen (difficultly) in this picture. It could be an arbitrary number like US Navy taskforce numbers from WWII like TF 58. Of course the Pegasus could be the second battlestar of the name, keeping the number of the older, Galactica-like ship, thus explaining the lower number. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:27, 21 December 2005 (EST)
::::Got a better pic, the first was that one I uploaded of the Peggie. Also, maybe the group number is based on the command ship, so a group commanded by the Galactica would be BSG-75 after the BS-75. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:36, 21 December 2005 (EST)
[[Image:Galnameplate.JPG|thumb|Galactica Nameplate]]

==Galactica & Pegasus==

Why note move this page to BSG and have BSG-75 and whatever number the Pegasus ends up being both redirect there? There's not much to say about either group in particular, so much as the BSG as a concept and which ones are known. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:45, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

==Pegasus Group Number==

This was contentious for some time, since the screenshots are really quite blurry, but this image posted by [[User:Talos|Talos]] on [[Talk:Pegasus (RDM)]] resolved the matter to my satisfaction:

[[Image:Cain_Pegasus_emblem_BSG_63.jpg]]

If there's still disagreement, we can note the assignment as tentative. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:54, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

*I am familiar with this image from the previous discussion: I can't tell if I'm seeing an "8", a "6", or a "2". I feel this image is too fuzzy. No, we should not note it as tentative, because it's really hard to tell. We can just wait until "Ressurection Ship"--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:57, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

And apparently, Pegasus may have been a member of BSG 75. Two of the prospective DVD covers for "Razor" show the Pegasus seal with BSG 75 on it.
 
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2018/coverbwc7.jpg http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2084/covercgg2.jpg
 
-[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:11, 28 August 2007 (CDT)
: Unfortunately, those images are wrong. The number's been conclusively proven as BSG 62. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 00:09, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
:: I understand that, but maybe, after Cain died and Adama ascended to Admiralship, Pegasus was incorporated into BSG 75. It's only a theory, of course, and I'm probably wrong, but, it ''could'' be right. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 03:38, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
:::Occam's razor says that someone simply made an error. They probably had a better source image of the ''Galactica'' logo and only updated the name (also note that the font is different), but neglected the number. To be honest, while it's noticeable as fan, it isn't ''that'' obvious. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:41, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
e
== ship, not group identifier ==

As the flight decks of the battlestar PEGASUS (as well as on the nameplate) bore the '62' designator, this - if one takes the US Naval practice into consideration - makes it a SHIP designator. Also, in some episodes, you see the battlestar designated solely by its number on the DRADIS screen. True, the GALACTICA is an older ship than PEGASUS, yet PEGASUS' number designator is lower than the GALACTICA. As the U.S. Navy does change numbers around from time to time, it is not impossible that "BSG" was a new designator for battlestars, and that when the renumbering took place, the newer ships got the lower numbers, hence PEGASUS having 62, instead of 75.
-[[User:Expatkiwi|Expatkiwi]]20:26, 26 December 2007 (PST)

User:Expatkiwi

2007-12-26T07:33:15Z

Expatkiwi: New page: I am an expatriate New Zealander now living in the USA. I am a fan of GALACTICA, to the extent of scratch building a model of the classic battlestar (in balsa), and wrting fanfiction (whi...

I am an expatriate New Zealander now living in the USA. I am a fan of GALACTICA, to the extent of scratch building a model of the classic battlestar (in balsa), and wrting fanfiction (which can be seen at www.fanfiction.net).