Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Caprica (series)/Archive 1

2009-04-16T20:41:10Z

Enlightened Bystander:

#Is this for real?
#If this is in the same continuity as the re-imagined series, we won't need a separate namespace for it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:51, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::On the first, it looks it, but, like most people, I'm more inclined to believe things I like.
::I almost posted the second on Quorum, but I decided it was a conclusion we'd all come to anyway. I'm glad I was at least partially right. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:56, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Actually, thinking it through some more, it might be handy to have a namespace for a new series - particularly for projects like the screencap categorization. I'll have to think on how they should coexist. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:00, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Just for clarity, you cannot mean an actual namespace like Battlestar Wiki, Podcast, or Sources, since RDM and TOS use the same one. Assuming you mean something like the use of "RDM" as a parenthetical disambiguation term, I disagree. It should never be necessary to disambiguate between RDM and Caprica if they share a continuity. In fact, I think TOS/Caprica name conflicts should be resolved with RDM, as Ronald D. Moore is the creative force behind Caprica, too; it would also avoid a problem if something is mentioned first in Cparica, then in RDM.
::::I think a category would be sufficient for screen capture organization. (It's clearly necessary, anyway.) --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:09, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::Yes, I meant the parenthetical suffix. What we have now is, for example, "Screen Captures (TOS)", "Screen Captures (1980)" and "Screen Captures (RDM)". The reason (1980) and (TOS) are separate is that there are numerous other continuities that branch off of TOS and don't include 1980, a concern that wouldn't be relevant for RDM and "Caprica". However, wouldn't we want a category such as "Screen Captures (Caprica)" that would be distinct from "Screen Captures (RDM)"? That's why a parenthetical designation separate from "RDM" might be useful. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:13, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::That's the category I meant. Category:CAP should probably just be [[:Category:RDM]], barring a desire to keep track of things mentioned in the re-imagined series only or Caprica only. Category:Episode Guide (CAP) would suffice for episode pages, which would also be in Category:RDM to indicate continuity, not series. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:20, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::::I think this is horribly confusing. The best thing would be to have separate abbreviations for the current series and the RDM universe as a whole, but I don't exactly feel like going through the entire wiki, moving articles, categories and links. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:23, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
Not only is it real, when I saw the first rumor I immediately took it to the "Talk to Mrs.Ron" thread, and asked. She asked Ron, who within 30 minutes responded that yes, he had already publicly pitched it to ScifiChannel and the news sites weren't making it up and it wasn't a rumor. Talk about fan-base connection! Secondly Peter, we do need a template if only for the episodes: I mean Next Generation and Deep Space Nine are in the same continuity, share several characters and even have crossover episodes, but we still use "TNG" and "DS9" stuff to sort the two out. I mean one day they might have a "Caprica" episode called "Resistance". So we have RDM "Resistance" and CAP "Resistance". It's just a convention to use for episode naming really. I mean when Galactica shows up in "Caprica" it'll be the same ship, and we'll still call it "Galactica (RDM)", yes, but "CAP" would be mostly an episode thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 02:02, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:I sincerely hope they never give an episode the same name, but I suppose it's possible. I suggest not using " (CAP)" unless that forces it, and, even then, restricting it to that specific usage. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:11, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::Well, most series tend to wind up using 3 letter abbreviations after a while. And yeah even TNG had "The Emissary (TNG)" not to be confused with the pilot episode of Deep Space Nine, "The Emissary (DS9)".--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 02:14, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

==Abbreviation==
For templating and just basic shorthand, we need an abbreviation we'll officially use for this series, just as ''The Next Generation'' is TNG, ''The Original Series'' is TOS, and Ron D. Moore's ''Battlestar Galactica'' is RDM. I think CAP would be good. Any objections?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 02:12, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:"Caprica" in full looks better and doesn't take much longer to type, while CAP is visually consistant with RDM and TOS. I don't much care one way or the other. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:14, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::I guess so, well just in case anyone wanted it. I'm not staking a big discussion on this, I'm just tossing ideas around. Whatever works out. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 02:16, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Oh I just figured this out: both "Caprica" and "Voyager" have 7 letters, but Memory Alpha uses that "VOY" abbreviation all the time. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 02:17, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::So will RDM refer to both the RDM universe and the re-imagined series, while CAP refers just to the new spinoff? That is, suppose a new character named "Rigel" shows up in the "Caprica" series. Is she "Rigel (RDM)", or is she "Rigel (CAP)"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:18, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::She'll be summarily executed and all memory of her erased. ...That is a problem, though. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:23, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
'''Thought''': There currently exist no pages requiring re-imagined series vs. ''Caprica'' disambiguation. "RDM" is currently used only for things that are part of both continuities.

'''Proposal''': "TNS" should be used for the things only belonging to the re-imagined series, i.e. Episode Guide (RDM) -> Episode Guide (TNS), Screen Captures (RDM) ->Screen Captures (TNS), and things named the same in both (like hypothetical Rigel and Resistance). "RDM" should be used for the entire continuity that Ronald D. Moore has created.

This minimizes changes, but it disambiguates what must be. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:30, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:I agree that this is probably the best way out of the problem, but I just want to emphasize how very, very much I don't want to make all these changes. We will need to carefully plan what needs to be moved and what does not, in order to avoid inconsistancies and broken links. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:37, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Well actually I think it can be simpler, and moreover that we didn't want to use "TNS" anymore because it falls back into the "it's a new show, as opposed to the old show" mentality when they're really not comparable. 
'''Thought''': "RDM" covers...the entire "RDMverse" for lack of a better word. 
'''Proposal''': We'll actually keep using "RDM" for '''almost everything''', and "RDM" is the catch-all word for the "RDMverse", HOWEVER, in cases such as "The Hand of God" which is an episode titled "RDM"....we'll just keep calling those "RDM" because there's only a few of them and they're really easy to spot. ****"CAP" would really only be used as an episode guide abbreviation, and when *citing episode articles*.
--->For example, really the only time I think we'd really use "CAP" is like this: "The Cylon War began 52 years before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies <nowiki>([[RDM]]: "[[Colonial Day]]"), and was started when a Centurion named B166ER killed his human commander ([[CAP]]: "[[Cylon Revolt!]]"</nowiki>" check out a couple of pages on Memory Alpha, ones that cover alien races that span multiple tv shows like Klingons and such: that's the format they use to cite stuff between episodes, even though they're in the same continuity. But really, we can't use "BSG" because that means "BattlestarGroup", and not "TNS" because we don't want to stress that it is the new series. They're all part of the "RDMverse", while the current show is ''specifically'' "RDM", and events, objects, and persons on "Caprica" will still be put in the "RDM" category, but episodes will have "CAP". ---->'''Unless of course, you guys want to invent the term "RDMverse" for use on the Wiki as an all-encompassing term'''--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 03:18, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:CA's solution is really the only reasonable thing to do in the long term, even if it is going to be a bit like a root canal. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:31, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::Well, we've root-canaled before. Just need more laughing gas. Other wikis ''wish'' to have problems like ours. :) I'm in general agreemnent with CA's idea, though it's going to sting. (Oh, I got the B166ER reference, Merv. It wouldn't be an inappropriate way to start the conflict in this show either, come to think of it...) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:40, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::I hope I read this right... RDM to TNS? Can I work on a bot that does this for us? Does it have to be right now also? There is no set timetable yet for this to show. I was alsmost going to recommend {{tl|delete}} very early AM. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:50, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::Well look I'm not so adamant about it that I'm willing to make some sort of Faustian pact in order to see it done, but I'd ''prefer'' if we didn't use "TNS" because "The New Series" makes it sound like we're trying to set it "as opposed to the Old" when really they're not comparable. I don't know what else we could come up with, but I'm working on it. Though I must say, we have several MONTHS before we get more news on this and we've got time to decide! Yes, Spencerian, other wikis do wish for this kind of spinoff info and discussion! :) Anyone ever read "Stranger in a Strange Land"? Sometimes discussions like this remind me of that thing they mention in passing, that a Martian religious epic poem got made by a nestling that turned into a non-corporeal Old One without realizing it, and thus made a work unlike any other: as a result, the Martians themselves are heavily involved in debating this "art", even HOW to judge it, and are unconcerned with the affairs on Earth in the story; and Heinlein mentions that it will take centuries before they're done discussing this vexing dilemma! :) ***Well yeah, indeed, it is ''more'' applicable than B166ER Spencerian: those bots were just used for grunt work, but according to RDM, the Cylons were used for heavy work like mining ''as well as'' soldiers for wars ''between'' the independent Colonies; like, an army of Cylons fighting for Caprica versus and army of Cylons fighting for Gemenon, stop and ask why they're being forced to kill their fellow Cylons all the time; plus they've already got weapons. Yeah, sort of like the Jaffa in that way, actually (the Goa'uld always fought wars which were essentially just petty rivalries between the Goa'uld System Lords, thousands always dying killing their fellow Jaffa for no real reason). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:01, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::First: Heinlein rules. Excellent reference.
:::Second: When I take a step back, I can see how an outsider might consider some of the discussions/debates of this nature to be silly. Perhaps as silly and arbitrary as Green vs Purple (Green rules!), Black/White vs White/Black (Original Series Star Trek), whether the Chosen realm was [[Memoryalpha:Triannon|created]] in nine days or ten days (which should be obvious to any '''rational''' observer, but the debate raged anyway). However, I'm glad that there are people who care about sweating the details like this, and thoughtful (if sometimes energetic) debate about it is one of the great byproducts of the wiki experience.
:::Lastly, and regarding the abbreviation: I don't really have anything definitive to add, but I do ask that we try to disregard the implementation details at first, and try to come up with the "right" way to do it. When I first saw this, I cringed as I anticipated mass conversion of RDM marks over to a new abbreviation. (I even considered pleading "TOS" citizenship, but I think I'm too young.) However our goal is to be 100% correct in the end, which means not having to explain to a user years from now why the abbreviations are inconsistent. Fortunately, in this case we also likely have considerable lead time, and members with the technical expertise to implement whatever high-level category/abbreviation/etc. decisions that consensus arrives at. As for TNS vs TOS, etc. Even as a heavy editor of the TOS pages, I wasn't offended by a TNS (as I often read TOS as being "The Old... Stuff" anyway). However, technically 1980 is newer than TOS, as is any show in the continuity after this one. TRS? (The Reimagined Series?) Ideally these abbreviations would only be used at intersections in namespaces, but there is also the categories to consider. Would all the new material ALSO fall under RDM (so you have an RDM-wide content area), but then also fall under their own respective categories for their series? Well... there's a lot to consider. But we've got plenty of time, and hopefully we can work smart (as opposed to hard) on this to minimize the grunt work and maximize the accuracy, concision, and organization. Green! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:38, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:I think I misunderstood: I'd prefer to use "RDM" to refer to the current BSG series, not TNS, but for destinguishing screencaps and images and such, yeah TNS is just a technicality yeah. I just don't want to see "The Hand of God (TNS)". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:04, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::How do you feel about Steelviper's "TRS" idea? I rather like it for the increased accuracy. It seems we agree on leaving stuff from the combined continuity marked "RDM" where necessary to disambiguate from TOS or 1980. I just don't think continuing to use "RDM" for episodes and screen captures of the re-imagined series is appropriate, as it uses the same symbol for two related but distinct concepts (which is even worse than using the same symbol for two completely different concepts); it also breaks on characters with the same name, as normally "Foo (RDM)" would be used for a character from ''Caprica'' and, thus, two articles would "rightfully" have the same name. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 15:06, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:Well first off, "Chosen Realm" and Enterprise as a whole are a poor source of analogy, as it was poor writing. :) --->I'd actually prefer "'''RIS'''" , "Re-Imagined Series" over "TRS" "The Reimagines Series", on account of the fact that visually "TRS" is too similar to "TOS", witha difference of only one letter. New thoughts: I think I'd go with "RIS" for the current series because it is a "Re-Imagining" of TOS Battlestar Galactica's idea about a show centered on Galactica and such, but while "Caprica" is set *IN* the "Re-Imagined Universe", it's not a *DIRECT* "not so much a "remake" as a "Re-Imagining" of the essential concept" thing. ---->Therefore, I think now, I'd want to refer to the universe as a whole as "RDM", and characters places and objects like the planet Caprica, William Adama, and the Battlestar Galactica would be "RDM", but like images and episodes (we might get a name re-used or something else) for the re-imagined version of the series centered on Galactica leadering a rag-tag fleet of survivors would be called "RIS" for Re-Imagined Series, while "Caprica" stuff would be "CAP". So use "RIS" instead of "TRS", but otherwise (if I understand what he said correctly) I think I essentially agree with CA. (Either way, I'd prefer these ideas over "TNS") You guys like that idea?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:27, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:: So basicly everything that is currently ''RDM'' will be changed to ''RIS'' and this new series would be ''CAP''?
:::No. RDM will continue to be used for things which pertain to the RDM continuity/universe. Only those things which need to be disambiguated from CAP within that framework will get the new tag. So, "Boxey (RDM)" will stay "Boxey (RDM)", but "Screen captures (RDM)" will become "Screen captures (TNS)" (or whatever we decide to call it.) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:49, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Right.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:30, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

==Suffix discusion==
(This probably deserves its own project sooner or later. We'll get around to it.)
*TNS ("The New Series"): Not good. The series isn't going to be "new" in ten years.
*TRS ("The Re-imagined Series"): Adequate, although it doesn't roll off the tongue.
*RIS ("Re-Imagined Series"): I dislike using both the morpheme and the stem for the abbreviation.
*2003 (by analogy with 1980): Confusing, since the series will continue into at least 2007.

Any other ideas? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:18, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:Well I'm favoring "RIS". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:30, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like [[Wikipedia:Bris|Bris]], which makes me uncomfortable. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:31, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:::To be honest, I don't think "bris" is a word your average joe on the street immediately recognizes. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:13, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Since I assume you're not Jewish, it doesn't surprise me that you don't think that. I am going on the record as saying "RIS" gives me the jibblies. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:08, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:I'm putting my vote in for ''TRS'', and I disagree about it not rolling off the tongue. I think it rolls off the tongue just fine. --[[User:Viannah|Viannah]] 16:29, 12 November 2006 (CST)

This is not like '''TNS:Article Name''' or is this '''Article (TNS)'''. Even I am aginist serperate namespaces for articles. I suggested another namespace for Archives, because that is reasonable, but not for "Series". I don't know of any Wikis that do this, other than doing (SERIES) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:37, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:Well like I said check out MemoryAlpha they do this all the time to destinguish the various series. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:00, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::Here are some of your theories put to the test.
:::*http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek:_Voyager says it's an "Article"
:::*http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jeri_Taylor says it's an "Article"
:::*http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine says it's an "article"
:::*http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Memory_Alpha:User_projects is a "Project" page.

::Which means they do not do: ''Star_Trek: Voyager Jeri Taylow''

::Oh.. and TNG goes to '''''Star Trek: The Next Generation'''''. Nothing suggests that they do it this way on MA. Other than when an episode from two diffrerent series has the same name, they do (TNG), (DS9), and so on. Check your sources before you think state a fact. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:39, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Calm down; he misunderstood you. As discussed above, there is some imprecision with the usage of the word ''namespace'' here. Namespaces are things like "Battlestar Wiki," "Podcast," or "Sources" that prefix a page name. "TNS," "TRS," and "RIS" would be parenthesized after the page name proper.
:::You might note the more civil tone taken in my mention of this above. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:25, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I am pretty sure he undesrtanded me because I mentioned it above in the other discussion. I have said that "TNS", "TRS" would be in () but he said they use namespaces, which he knows, because he has worked on these himself. There was was much confusing in his long paragraphs I asked twice for clairfication from him, and he never responded. I was pointing out the differences between the Wiki in which he compares to MA a little to much. I don't because it's very retrictied to what they can do since they are on a hosted "community". --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:44, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:I'm consciously abusing the term "namespace" here, mainly because I couldn't think of anything better. "Suffix" will work fine, though. Sorry for any confusion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:07, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::Look I think there's confusion on what's meant by "namespace" and to be honest I don't know exactly what that means; I just meant, in in-article citations, that's how we'd abbreviate it: I mean like I said above, it would be "William Adama: William Adama is the commander of Galactica during the fall of the Twelve Colonies <nowiki>([[RIS]]: [[Miniseries]]), and first joined the colonial military when Cylon Centurions destroyed his humble family moisture farm ([[CAP]]: "[[The Die is Cast]]")</nowiki> that's all, I mean I don't know what changing namespace would entail. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:25, 27 April 2006 (CDT)
:::That is display. ''Twelve Colonies ([[RIS]]: [[Miniseries]])'' It's ok to create invaild links if you need to make your point. I do it all the time. But if there was two boxey's bettween CAP and RIS, ''Boxey <nowiki>([[CAP]]: [[Boxey (CAP)|Boxey]])</nowiki>'' to ''Boxey ([[CAP]]: [[Boxey (CAP)|Boxey]])'' --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:34, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::::I think that unless there was a CAP miniseries as well, that wouldn't be necessary. "William Adama stubbed his toe when he was two ([[SomeCapricaEpisode]]). He would later reflect on this during a cylon attack in "[[SomeGalacticaEpisode]]"." --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:45, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Well that was just to get the ball rolling. Let's get back to figuring out the nuts amd bolts of this when we know more about episodes and casting and such.....one year from now. :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:21, 29 April 2006 (CDT)

==Spinoff?==
I don't think it's accurate to call this a spinoff in the article. It's not a spinoff because it contains none of the same characters or story. It's a prequel. That is like saying Voyager was a spinoff of Deep Space Nine. They are in the same continuity, but Caprica isn't a spinoff. If it were about the Caprica resistance in the current timeline, then it would be a spinoff. --[[User:Mateo|Mateo]] 09:28, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:Prequels are technically spinoffs. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:34, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::Generally spinoffs keep to the same timeline. You don't normally go backwards in a spinoff do you? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:39, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:::"Star Trek: Enterprise" was both a prequel and a spinoff. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 11:46, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::::Thanks for clarification :) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 11:48, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:I disagree. I think a spinoff has to take place within the same timeline, not just the same universe. Voyager is not a spinoff of Deep Space Nine. --[[User:Mateo|Mateo]] 12:19, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::No, and something is in the same "timeline" if it's in the same "universe". Next Generation was a spinoff of "Star Trek" the Original Series, despite being set 75 years later and featuring none of the original characters in recurring roles. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:15, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:::I meant the current time, I don't know a better word for that. --[[User:Mateo|Mateo]] 13:23, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:::[[wikipedia:Spinoff#Variants_of_spin-offs|Wikipedia says:]] "A new series is started with the same theme and existing in the same universe as the original series, but may not necessarily have the same characters. Examples of this type are the Star Trek, Stargate, Law & Order, and CSI series. These are sometimes called franchises." and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Enterprise are also spinoffs of the original series." Not that wikipedia is necessarily definitive (Oregon is "Idaho's Portugal"), but I thought it might help us refine the definition of "spinoff" that we're using. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:22, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::::The new mag. even states that the series is not final yet. It just out there. Usually a marketing ploy. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:32, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::In the IGN interview with RDM and Eick, it seemed to me (IMHO) that Eick was downplaying the possibility (We only have the script and that's it). --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:37, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

== The Graystone Family ==

Anyone have any theories as to who the Graystones are? The family of the inventor of the Cylons? The family of Lee and Zak's mother Caroline? Both? [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:45, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

:My initial reation was that the Graystones would be the inventors of the Cylon, definitely. Or perhaps, on the other side of the coin, activists wholly opposed to their creation. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:00, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

::Madbrood's guess is correct. According to an interview with Ron Moore on the SciFi.com website, the Greystones are a family where there is a "Microsoft"-like company that loves to make technology, regardless of whether they should. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Gods damn, I'm good :D --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:10, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

== Starting Production? ==
HHR is reporting that production will begin November, and may be shown on NBC.[http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=3488]. Don't know if this is concrete enough to post in article. I always thought the show might play better on another network. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 05:48, 8 September 2006 (CDT)

== Reality, Meet Fiction. Fiction, Reality. ==

During my morning coffee I chuckled [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article1695546.ece at this link from a UK newspaper], which is all too relevant to this article. Best quote from a reader:

<blockquote>"Seriously though given the amount of coding errors I detect and fix as an IT specialist I would be more worried that your toaster will toast and butter you instead of the bread."</blockquote>

-- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:42, 4 May 2007 (CDT) ([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contrib Skillz]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|Edit Skillz]])
:I wouldn't mind being "buttered" by [[Number Eight|#8]] :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:47, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
::Some honey and cinnamon from the belly button of a Six would be fine too. I'll skip any "French toast" jokes. :) -- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:28, 4 May 2007 (CDT) ([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contrib Skillz]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|Edit Skillz]])
:Link has died. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:00, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::The article's title is "Human rights for robots? We’re getting carried away" on the London ''Times'' Online site. I found a [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article1695546.ece newer link.] --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:00, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

== Sci Fi taking [[FlashGordonWiki:Flash Gordon (Sci Fi Channel)|Flash Gordon]] over this? ==

I remember someone commented along YouTube's upload of [[Razor Flashbacks]] that [[Sci Fi Channel|Sci Fi]] took ''Flash Gordon'' over ''Caprica''.. As I'd highly doubt this is true, just to make certain: simply a rumour or a little more? [[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 09:55, 17 October 2007 (CDT)

== Hope? ==

In the latest TV Guide, there's a snippet on page 28 that claims that Mark Stern (SciFi's executive VP of original programming) said, "I just got a call from NBC-Universal. They want us to take another look at the project." (With reference to Caprica.) So, there may be hope yet (in part, likely, due to the writer's strike. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:24, 15 January 2008 (CST)
: It would be interesting to see if it ever takes off the ground... On the other hand, if it starts prepping during the strike, will RDM and company be involved in it? Or will they just give the show to someone else? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 20:38, 15 January 2008 (CST)

== New information from E!Online==

Since we apparently believe this, is it appropriate to add Tamara Adama to the Siblings and Children sections, respectively, of Bill and Joseph's character infoboxes? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
: That'd work. We just need to make sure to add the proper referencing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

== Spoiler Policy for the new series? ==
So I was just wondering how far are we willing to go with information coming out of the new series before we call it a spoiler? Our spoiler policy doesn't cover new series, as dealing with an upcoming series is a first for the wiki. Personally I think the information we're getting now counts as premise, and is ok to leave without spoiler warnings, but if in the future we get more detailed information than what we have it may be spoilerific.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 00:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Good point. I think anything that deals with the plot is a spoiler, but until everything is settled there won't be episode pages. There are a few character pages, but I have no idea how to classify those. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 00:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

==Past or present tense?==
By the way, since the RDM episodes are written in present tense (regarding information on status as of the last episode), I assume all Caprica info should be written in past tense, even when the show is on air? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 15:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Um, that's tricky, and we have to think of something here, but in general, I'd say no. That's just awkward. They're the same universe, but when reading something about ''Caprica'', I'm reading from that show's POV, which is generally present tense. When including ''Caprica'' information into a TNS article past tense fits though (fixed :) ). Or for people who are dead. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::Er, you mean past tense for those latter things, right? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::But having stuff that takes place both in CAP and 50 years later in TNS in present tense, as well as some of what happens at the same time as CAP in past tense would be even more awkward to me. And some articles, like [[William Adama]] and [[Cylons (RDM)]] will have information from both shows which will feature them (more or less) equally. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:09, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, it depends on where the information is put IMO. In an article that's exclusive to ''Caprica'' or an existing TNS article? On [[William Adama]] it would naturally be past tense, but I think that reading a Graystone family article or even [[Joseph Adama]] (once he appears on the show), one would expect present tense. On the other hands, the genesis of the Cylons on [[Cylon History]] may be past tense again (that's where it gets ''really'' complicated). It's not really an issue now, but we'll have at least one episode article for ''Caprica'' and perhaps many more. And those would be present tense of course. As said, it's tricky, because we already said that the want to keep the (RDM) disambiguation for both series. But at the same time, I think there should be a different tense depending on the POV. Maybe use something like the <nowiki>{{TOS}}</nowiki> template to keep them apart when possible? A solution for William Adama specifically, could also be to create a childhood article that contains only ''Caprica'' information. But that doesn't work elsewhere. We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:18, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::By the way, in comparison, Memory Alpha uses past tense both for [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jean-Luc_Picard Jean-Luc Picard] and for [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jonathan_Archer Jonathan Archer] - even information from "current" series is written in past tense there, but episode summaries for all series are in present tense. In my opinion it makes sense for all articles except for episode ones to use past tense - especially once BSG is over. Also, it will be confusing if the [[Joseph Adama]] article has information from Caprica in the present tense and information from TNS about events that happened after Caprica in the past tense. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Memory Alpha's system is very silly. Practically everything is in the past tense, because they use an annoying pseudo-historian approach. For a long time they had stuff like "Humans were a species", but at least that is fixed by now. That really hurt. I really, really prefer that we use present tense - it just reads a lot better - but I see the issue with a larger universe like ST, and as you see the issue crops up with ''Caprica'' now. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I happen to agree with Serenity. I also happen to agree that MA's system of doing things verges on the asinine. Here's the short of it, to clarify:
* If an article is ''exclusively'' about ''Caprica'', then it should be written in ''present tense''. Same goes for articles exclusively about the Re-imagined Series.
* If an article spans from ''Caprica'' to the re-imagined series, then:
*# Events occurring ''before'' the [[Miniseries]] (timeline-wise) should be written in the ''past tense''.
*# Events occurring ''during'' and ''after'' the Miniseries (timeline-wise) should be written in the ''present tense''.
I should add that there are a few exceptions to this, such as articles on the history of the Twelve Colonies, etc, but the above works for 95% of the content we have on the wiki. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:38, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Are we sure we're not getting ahead of ourselves here? ==

I've been thinking, considering that all that is being produced is a pilot, is giving the casting sheets full canonical status a little presumptuous? If the series doesn't get taken up, then we might find a lot of the wiki becomes akin to [[Battlestar Galactica: Year Two proposal]] from TOS. Perhaps some qualifying tags can be added to the content. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 23:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:The pilot has been greenlit and the information from the casting sheet is likely only from the pilot. And even if nothing more than the pilot is produced, it will still have canonical status and the characters will still have articles here. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:: I find that we have topped what we can do, including the poral which I never expected to have anything other than the introduction. The things in Cylons portal gotta go. It's just got no place right now there. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 23:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::As for the Cylon portal, I guess you're right, it's too early to add it there. And if anything on the sheet is from episodes other than the pilot, we'll just note which info is from the pilot and which is/was supposed to be in further episodes after the pilot is aired. And if we consider information from Bradley Thompson and Ronald D. Moore given off-screen as canon then I don't see a reason not to consider Caprica canon even if not all of it eventually gets produced. And since the pilot has been greenlit, this will definitely be more than the Year Two proposal anyway. And the articles on new characters have the spoiler tags which warn that they may differ from the final, aired version. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not that happy about the inclusion of small details into other articles. The character articles are perfectly fine. The information is valid, but it's largely contained to a few articles. But it shouldn't be spread around freely. A lot can change until the show is aired. For example there is a script from the Miniseries that had all Colonies on one planet. And, for example, a character's home colony can easily be switched. I'm not saying that we should remove it, but further edits to non-Caprica articles should be done carefully. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:54, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Concur. Also, if we're to add content to already established articles (Joseph Adama, Tauron, etc) we must note via footnotes that the information is subject to change and is, by no means, final until it is aired. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 06:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Added the footnotes to everything I could remember. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:17, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Apropos of small info: [http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=caprica&p=1#sr Mayrs/Brandstatter] are now looking for even more actors. -- [[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 12:41, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::I am sending my face/picture/resume in. I so want to be that agent. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 14:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::Anyone with an account on that site to get more casting info? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 19:33, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

==Timeline Discrepency?==
The promo material for the series states that it starts 51 years prior to BSG itself and is set at a time before the Colonies are unified. However, this appears to be impossible: in Colonial Day it says the Colonies were unified 52 years earlier, whilst the mini-series states that the Cylon War ended over 40 years ago and then Razor says the war lasted 12.5 years, putting the start of the war between 52 and 53 years before the mini. Taking that into account, by 51 years before the events of BSG, the Colonies should already be unified and at war with the Cylons (an RDM blog post suggests that the Colonies unified because of the war). I would also assume that the Cylons would need many years (a decade or more, surely?) before the war to be fully developed and mass-produced, and their ships to be built. A more sensible starting time for CAPRICA would be 60+ years prior to BSG. A possibly explanation given on other boards is that the mechanical Cylons already exist, maybe even their war machine, and it is the events of CAPRICA that leads to the creation of more advanced AI and the Cylons gaining sentience. Whilst this wouldn't help the simple fact that they should already be at war, it would minimise the damage. Of course, the promo material also states that Graystone's work results in the creation of the very first Cylons, which would seem to rule that out. Hopefully they'll fix this with a caption or something at the start of the pilot, but at the moment it sounds like a continuity error to even dwarf Hero could be in the running here.--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 12:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, this is a bit of a timeline discrepancy here, or at least seems that way from the information available online in regard to the production. It would be worth noting, but we need to make sure we note that this is from presently available information. (Also, they may define a "year" differently after all. Interestingly enough, they did define Razor in terms of days, not a breakdown of years/months/days. So they have wiggle room there.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 14:59, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
==Number of episodes==
Official press release says that, "SCI FI Channel has greenlit production on the new original series Caprica, ordering 20 hours of the drama '''including''' the two-hour pilot,..." so it should be Pilot + 18 episodes, not 21 episodes. --[[User:Deus|Deus]] 08:52, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

== How is this consistent? ==

Early in BSG, somebody says something along the lines of, "The last time we saw the Cylons they looked like walking toasters." The humans were caught completely off guard by the Cylon infiltrators because nobody realized it was possible for a robot to pass as a human.

Now in this new series, set 50 years before the events of BSG, we have somebody already creating a robot that is a perfect replica of his daughter. By the time of BSG, the idea of robots passing as humans should be very old news.

How is this apparent contradiction resolved?

[[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 05:48, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

: It's complicated, and without blowing my NDA out of the water, it's not really what you think... You really have to see Caprica before you go around asking questions of badly reported information. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 06:43, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
::I believe that the robot replica doesn't actually look human, only the VR avatar does. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Page for the pilot ==

How about we create a separate page for the pilot, where we can include e.g. some episode-specific cast info for minor characters? Or is it too early? Also, should we move [[Evelyn Adama]] to [[Shannon Adama]], since the latter is used in ''Caprica'' (apparently they forgot that they already gave her a name)? Or should it stay where it is for now, since that's the only official name until ''Caprica'' airs? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:For now, as we haven't a name for the pilot or other data to firm it up, let's wait a bit. We'll start getting buzzed by the Sci Fi Channel blitz by midway in the year, if not earlier, I reckon. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Well, I think it would be good to have a place for all the casting info for minor characters that would clutter this page too much. And [[Caprica pilot]] would IMHO be a good temporary name for that.
::And any thoughts on the Evelyn/Shannon thing? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::Let's be bold about it and set it up, carefully. But use spoiler tags liberally and use practically no speculation since there's nothing to speculate with. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

== Links Between BSG (RDM) and Caprica (Series) ==

I was wondering if there was a page that covered all the references to Caprica (the series) that have appeared on BSG since the third season (i.e. the Seventh Cylon, Daniel). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Three-letter Suffix Discussion ==

If it isn't already settled, since there are so many pre-existing uses of (RDM), leave it at that for the re-imagined series and use (CAP) for ''[[Caprica]]'' and just let it go. Changing all the uses of (RDM) is unnecessary, bureaucratic make-work. Or so I think, anyway. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 23:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
:Does it need it's own suffix? (RDM) and (TOS) signify continuities, and this is the (RDM) continuity. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== ''Caprica'' and the [[First Cylon War]] ==

Certainly this is early to ask this question, and even if there's been an answer given certainly it wouldn't be cast in stone right now, but I'm curious if Mr. Moore, Mr. Eick, or anyone else has indicated whether the ''Caprica'' timeline will extend all the way into the [[First Cylon War]], or if the program will stop short of that?

I ask because there were early indications that ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise Star Trek: Enterprise]'' might have extended all the way into the Trek-continuity [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Earth-Romulan_War Earth-Romulan War], although it later turned out otherwise, and this strikes me as similar in that regard (a prequel in an established history leading up to a known war which is definitely part of in-program-universe history although not yet depicted). -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 23:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
:There's been no indication of this as of yet. It seems to be all pre-war, but no one knows what direction it might ultimately take, including the writers. I'd love to see the war featured somehow along the line, especially with [[Michael Hogan]], [[Michael Trucco]], [[Kate Vernon]], [[Aaron Douglas]], and [[Rekha Sharma]]. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== Centurion? ==

In the Caprica sneak peak titled "Two Daughters" a robot that looks remarkably like the Modern Centurion of Battlestar Galactica. It is seen for a short period 32 seconds before the trailer ends. How is this possible? -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 15:05, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
:It's not, it's effectively the endoskeleton of an TOS/Razor/Museum Centurion- a very basic prototype-- [[User:Enlightened Bystander|Enlightened Bystander]] 20:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The Passage

2006-12-11T14:47:41Z

Enlightened Bystander: /* Analysis */

{{Episode Data
| title= The Passage
| image=Season 3 - Promo - The Passage - Kat.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 10
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production= 310
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-12-08
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Unfinished Business]]
| next= [[The Eye of Jupiter]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Starvation threatens the population after the food-processing systems become contaminated, but the Fleet is cut off from a food source by the intense radiation put out by a huge star cluster. ''Galactica'''s pilots must guide the civilian vessels on a dangerous journey directly through the radiation.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
*[[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] flies a [[Raptor]] through a blinding, immensely bright gas cloud. The Raptor's outer skin is charring from the intense heat. Athena is managing to fight off the intense radiation buildup surrounding her, thanks to her [[Cylon agent|Cylon physiology]], but a radiation monitor badge she wears is changing color from white, spotting to an ominous black.
*Elsewhere in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], President [[Laura Roslin]] summarizes the contamination of the basic foodstuff material storage used to feed everyone, from soldier to civilian. The situation is dire; 7 to 10 days of rations remain. The Fleet is starving.
*A group of pilots, including [[Lee Adama]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine]], are combining what little food they have and sharing it, down to the last crumb.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] and his command staff await Athena's return from her reconnaisance mission to what they believe is a planet that has basic algae, which isn't extremely palatable but is protein-rich and will allow them to restock their food stores and survive. Athena is three hours late from return.
*Athena does make it back to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. While her radiation badge is black, her Cylon physiology protects her (although she is obviously uncomfortable). She reports success; the planet is teeming with algae.
*But the travel through the star cluster is extremely dangerous. Two [[FTL|jumps]] are required to reach the planet on the other side of the cluster, which cannot be circumnavigated. The navigation computers of any civilian ships inside the cluster would be inoperative due to insufficient shielding and the intense radiation leaves a ship only minutes to gather their bearings for the second jump out before they absorb a fatal dose of radiation. Any ship would also have to endure the intense heat as well.
*''Galactica'' alone cannot be used to ferry the people, and the civilian ships alone would not make the trip as they would get lost within the cluster cloud. There is too much algae for ''Galactica'' to bring the food to the people in time.
*The Adamas consider the use of the Raptors, whose navigation systems are radiation-hardened to protect against nuclear strikes, as pilot ships that will guide a group of civilian ships at a time by visual reckoning, relaying the proper jump coordinates once visual sighting is made to get the ships to the other side. Five jumps are needed, and skeleton crews are used on each civilian ship to limit the Fleet's possible losses, with the civilians temporarily transferred to ''Galactica'', which will survive the radiation effects thanks to the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar's]] dense hull plating ([[Miniseries]]).
*A group of civilians are bunked on ''Galactica'' from the civilian ships. One of them recognizes Kat, but calls out for her by another name: "Sasha." Kat reacts angrily to the man, [[Enzo]], and barely acknowledges his call before warning him to back off.
*The pilots are briefed on the plan, and each given radiation badges. When Major Adama encourages the use of [[stims]], Kat objects, warning that stims work by boosting the body's metabolism. In their starvation state, the stims would make them ill. Adama leaves the use of the drug to the pilot's discretion.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] returns to the [[CIC]] and is greeted by a round of applause from the crew. He promptly reminds them that they have "jobs to do". He has presumably resumed his post as [[XO]] of ''Galactica''.
*The first outbound flight into the cluster begins. The ''[[Adriatic]]'' is lost when its Raptor guide, flown by [[Hot Dog]], cannot locate her.
*Successive trips continue, but another ship, the ''[[Carina]]'', guided by Kat, is lost as well, which greatly angers and saddens her. She stays in the cloud a few minutes too long during her extended search, and her radiation badge becomes dark.
*In the [[hangar deck]], Thrace notices Enzo interacting with Kat and gets suspicious. She later questions Enzo and later, Kat.
*Kat begs Thrace not to tell Admiral Adama about her past life as a drug runner and the fact that she acquired her name, "Louanne Katraine," from a child that died two days before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], using it to clear ''Galactica'''s pilot screening when she was a [[nugget]]. Thrace accepts her offer, warning her to embrace who she really is.
*Feeling backed into a corner, Kat is physically stressed. Her hair is falling out, a sign of radiation poisoning. Fearful of what will happen to her if Admiral Adama finds out, she chooses to continue her Raptor flights, swapping her radiation badge with [[Helo]]'s. She allows herself a sexual romp with Enzo before preparing for the last outbound flight.
*The last outbound trip is more destructive. Even ''Galactica'' cannot withstand the heat and begins to suffer heat-related decompression failures throughout its hull. Adama orders his son to wrap out visual sighting and perform the escape jump.
*Kat cannot find her last ship. Realizing she had already absorbed too much radiation, she elects to remain in the cloud to continue searching for her lost ship.
*''Galactica'' waits for several frightening minutes until both Kat's Raptor and the last civilian ship rejoin them.
*Kat is greeted by the command staff and many crewmembers to celebrate her accomplishment. The young pilot pumps her arms in the air and tries to remove her helmet before she collapses from radiation poisoning.
*In [[sickbay]], Kara Thrace talks to Kat, whose exposure to the cloud's radiation was too extreme. Thrace recants a part of her conversation with Kat and her origins, and tries unsuccessfully to leave Kat's bedside with a smile before leaving the dying pilot with a bottle of sleeping pills as a gesture of self-euthanization. Kat thanks her.
*Admiral Adama stands by Kat's bedside immediately after Thrace's departure. Kat attempts to confess her past, but Adama tells her that her past will not change the heroic thing she did for the Fleet. He gives her the status of [[CAG]] once more, a position she held from colonization of [[New Caprica]] to Major Adama's return to ''Galactica'', despite the fact that Kat will not survive to fly again.
*Adama stays at Kat's bedside, talking with her and how he would have loved to have had a third child, commenting that he, like his ex-wife, [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]], would have liked a daughter.
*Some time later, the pilots assemble in their [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]] as Admiral Adama changes the pilot organization chart, placing Kat as the CAG.
*Kara Thrace enters ''Galactica'''s memorial hallway and tacks a photo of Kat on the board. She cries quietly as Lee Adama looks on from a distance.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*Baltar notices that Number Three keeps going off somewhere and wonders what she is doing. Caprica-Six tells him that the other Cylons are also concerned about Three's activities.
*Baltar confronts Three about her unexplained absences and surmises that she has been dying and resurrecting over and over again.
*Baltar and Three discuss the final five Cylon agents, who are apparently the figures Three has been seeing between life and death. Baltar wonders aloud if he could be one of them, making him a hero to the Cylons instead of a traitor to the Colonials. Three tries to hold onto the memory of what they look like, but it always fades. Her drawings of them aren't very distinct.
*Baltar and Three visit the Hybrid's chamber. Against Three's advice, Baltar reaches out to touch the Hybrid and she grabs his hand. She says a number of cryptic things which Baltar pieces together as clues about a planet where the Eye of Jupiter can be found, as well as something related to the final five. Baltar states that he is convinced that everything the hybrid says has meaning.

== Questions ==
*Was the Fleet-wide failure of food-processing systems a result of sabotage? If so, were Cylons responsible, or someone else?
*Was assisted suicide an accepted practice in the Colonies, even if not by a practicing physician?
*Are there going to be radiation consequences for the pilots exposed to the conditions of the star cluster, especially those pilots who did in fact have a black indicator?
*How many pilots and crew were lost on the two civilian ships ''Adriatic'' and ''Carina''? Will their loss cause problems for the civilians that used to live on them?

== Analysis ==
*The ranking shuffle resumes in this episode: Tigh returns to the CIC as XO, sending Helo back to the flight lines as a senior flight officer (his rank of Captain seems unaffected). At the end of the episode, Kat is posthumously given honorary CAG status, although Apollo is still ''de facto'' CAG.
*Baltar calls the Number Three "D'Anna", to which she responds. This indicates a high likelyhood of her being the same copy that was on ''Galactica'' and making her one of a few Cylons that has a name instead of just being a model. However, it may simply indicate acceptance of Baltar's custom of referring to and addressing some models by their "human" names—in this same scene, Baltar refers to "the relevant Simon" and in prior episodes refers to "one of the Dorals"' views on toilet paper. This custom is shared with the other humans, such as Ellen Tigh who mentions "one of the Brother Cavils", and Adama, who refers to both the [[Ragnar Anchorage]] copy and the stowaway copy in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" as "Leoben Conoy".
*Number Three does not know what the final five Cylon agent models look like, at least not consciously.
*No anti-radiation injections were seen to be used by the pilots. Unless they administered offscreen this could either mean that the Fleet's supplies are used up, or that even the medication doesn't help against such intense levels of stellar radiation.
*While it has not been conclusively established that the five figures are in fact the "Final Five" Cylon agents, the first sketch of the alleged "Final Five" that Number Three shows Baltar depicts two male and three female figures. If this proves accurate then of the twelve Cylon models there are six males and six females.
* One of D'Anna's sketches in particular appears to depict the profile of a mustached and bearded male with long hair—a possible reference to Baltar; later in the episode after Baltar communes with the hybrid, D'Anna says "Could there be a connection between their gods and ours?" where "their" refers to the polytheistic human pantheon and "ours," the Cylon single god, a possible slip on her part indicating that she believes Baltar to be a Cylon.
** It is possible that Baltar has accepted the Cylon religion, and so D'Anna no longer counts him as following human beliefs.
*Baltar's grooming has declined steadily since the Fall of the Colonies. While no longer a messy drunk as he was on New Caprica, he has grown a scraggly and untrimmed beard.

== Notes ==
*This is one of the few times an Air Group organization chart is visible. The CAG (now Kat) is in the top slot; directly below her are (presumably) the squadron leaders (Apollo, Starbuck, Two Times, and a fourth whose name is never visible to the camera). Pilots and ECOs may be listed below their squadron leaders in descending order of seniority (both Helo and Hot Dog, for example, are listed directly beneath their squadron leader, Starbuck, and the two of them are definitely among the senior flight officers for ''Galactica'').
*A [[Straits of Madagon|perilous journey]] by the [[The Fleet (TOS)|"rag-tag" Fleet]] in the [[Original Series]], where pilots are also critical to the Fleet's safety, appears in its series premiere, "[[Saga of a Star World]]."
*"The Passage" was written by ''Galactica'' newcomer [[Jane Espenson]]. The episode arose when the show brought in Dr. [[Kevin Grazier]], a scientist from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, who talked about how one would navigate through space; how one would figure out how to get from one point in the to universe to, for example, Earth. Grazier's talk prompted the story at the heart of Espenson's episode.
*On the memorial wall Kat's picture is placed below the one of Reilly's girlfriend she herself put there in "[[Scar]]".
*This episode marks the destruction of two civilian ships, the ''[[Adriatic]]'' and ''[[Carina]]''. This will likely result in more crowded conditions on the other ships in [[the Fleet]].
*This is the second episode in which dialog has been censored in the [[w:Sci Fi Channel (United States)|Sci Fi Channel]] broadcast. Starbuck sarcastically proclaims she gave Dr. Cottle "head" in response to Kat saying she gave him her protein bar.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Adama and Tigh discuss the food shortage''
::'''Adama:''' I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?
::'''Tigh:''' No. Paper shortage.

*''Starbuck gives a last minute pep talk to the pilots''
::'''Starbuck:''' Remember, we're all flying solo on this mission. So that means there'll be nobody there to bitch slap you if you start to get tired or start seeing little toasters on your wing.

*''Baltar and Three confront the Hybrid'':
::'''Hybrid''': [Suddenly grabs Baltar's hand] Intelligence! A mind that burns like a fire!
::'''Baltar''': Yes, I'm here.
::'''Hybrid''': Find the hand that lies in the shadow of the light, in the eye of the husband of the eye of the cow.
::'''Baltar''': [Removes his hand from the Hybrid's tank.]
::'''Three''': You all right? It just speaks nonsense, doesn't it?
::'''Baltar''': I don't think anything it says is nonsense.

== Official Statements ==
'''In [[Ron Moore]]'s blog on [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ July 27th, 2006]:'''

:"We were pretty excited to have Jane too. I actually took Jane's first pitch way back in my early days at Star Trek and I had the pleasure of buying what turned out to be her first sale. I hadn't seen her since, but I'd followed her career from afar and was very proud to see her do so well. Turns out that Jane was a huge fan of Galactica and really wanted to do a script for us, so we jumped on the chance. I think we're all hoping that we could get her on staff at some point in the future, but we'll have to wait and see how everything shakes out for Season Four -- and whether she's even available, she's very much in demand these days. Her episode this year is "The Passage" (originally Ep 9) and deals with a harrowing voyage of the rag-tag fleet and focuses on Kat."

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hotdog" Constanza]]

== References ==
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{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]
[[Category:RDM]]