Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:DuMan

2007-07-07T04:37:27Z

DuMan: /* Favorite Links */

=Me=
Fan of the show and trying not to fanwank. Hopes to one day learn how to make paragraphs. Might add more content here latter.

=Fun Fanwanking Ideas=
Expect poor grammar and bad spelling, this is my brain storming section.

==Beyond the Red Line==
Another possiblity for extreme computational needs for FTL drives is because the great variation that can occur in star coordinates when moving extreme distances faster than the speed of light. A very common note in astronomy is that when we look up at the sky, we don't see the sky as it is now but as it was, and the farther something is the more we get a glimps at the past, so far about to 12.5 billion years. Taking this into consideration when FTLing, one would be litterally moving through time (in a sense); at one point they see a birth of a star and when they FTL closer to it, they immedatily see its death. The consequence of this is that when one would FTL, the previous star charts that they used to navigate would not be the same as the new ones they could draw up from their new coordinates. With much larger jumps, their star charts would become progressively more useless as the star systems around them progressively change and move.

In order to keep track of their position (assuming the Colonials soley rely on star charts for positioning) they would then have to run astronomical simulations of how the stars would look like at their new location, predicting how the stars will change in the future for where they are going and how the stars looked in the past from where they came. Unlike in early navigation where sailors could depend on the stars as fixed points, any race that FTLs would have no such luxery. In a sense space travel would be more like traveling through a cave, where you would contantly keep track of the star charts from where you came and constantly generate new ones for where you are going.

Considering how many stars are in a patch of sky and how many position points it could possibly occupy (amongst other things), a really good computer would be needed for FTLing.

See [[Navigation in the Re-imagined Series|Navigation in the Re-imagined Series]] and the [[Red Line|Red Line]]

--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 16:58, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

=Favorite Links=
[[God (RDM)|God]]

[[Gravity in the Re-imagined Series|artificial gravity]]

[[Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series|Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series]]

[[Lymphocytic encephalitis|Lymphocytic encephalitis]]

[[Computers in the Re-imagined Series|Computers in the Re-imagined Series]]

[[Science in the Re-imagined Series|Science in the Re-imagined Series]]

Talk:Eye of Jupiter/Archive 1

2007-07-06T20:43:10Z

DuMan: New page: == Ring Nebula Discussion? == Did I miss the discussion on the Eye of Jupiter's connection to the Ring Nebula? They mention on Wikipedia th...

== Ring Nebula Discussion? ==

Did I miss the discussion on the Eye of Jupiter's connection to the [[w:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_Nebula|Ring Nebula]]? They mention on Wikipedia that it was used in nBSG, plus that's what I thought the eye was once I saw the picture Helo showed Starbuck. It would be ingenious if it were because it is known as one of the few prolate spheroids that points directly at Earth, thus it would be a great arrow. When reading about the writers' discussion on how use the supernova in Rapture to lead the way to Earth, I was greatly disappointed they didn't use the fact that some supernovas can have a prolate spheriod shape. I hope they use it in season 4.

Correction, the type of nebula I was talking about is referred to as [[w:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_nebula| bipolar nebula]]. And for those tracking changes, I moved this comment from the episode titled "They Eye of Jupiter" talk page as it's more relivant here.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 15:43, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2007-07-06T20:39:57Z

DuMan: /* Ring Nebula Discussion? */

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like a good plotline actually. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
::::No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --[[User:starryniteynite|starryniteynite]]

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

== Duelling Sharons ==

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

:It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our ''Galactica'' nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using ''us'' as a source! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes ''aren't'' Class-D? :P --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Image==
Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

So... is someone with the means actually going to replace the image with one relevant to this episode? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 21:12, 20 December 2006 (CST)

:Silly joking aside, I agree that the picture should be replaced. I'd do it, but I don't have a good screencap --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:34, 23 December 2006 (CST)

:I happen to have the episode, so, it's done. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:57, 23 December 2006 (CST)

::Well, I still see a thumbnail of the old image here and there (e.g. on the main page or on Mercifull's user page). -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:09, 27 December 2006 (CST)

:::You may need to purge your browser's image cache to see the new image. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:12, 28 December 2006 (CST)

::::I've just purged my Maxthon's image cache a moment ago and I still see an old thumbnail. Tried that also with Opera and Firefox -- all the same. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:27, 28 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Starbuck survive?==
Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" '''hoping''' the Cylons would shoot her down.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Nuking the Planet==

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Or perhaps the missiles can be aborted, until they reach a critical flight time. Could make for a ''very'' tense moment or two. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:Is it just me or didn't he actually give the order to fire. He said "release of nuclear weapons is now authorized". That might sound strange, but I took that to be a preliminary order to firing. For example that now even Tigh would be able to launch them on his say --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:03, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::No, you're correct on that; essentially all they were doing was opening the "barn doors". I was discussing the hypotheticals of the missiles, if they should be launched in the next ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:33, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:::Aye, we're just jumping the gun a little, and discussing possibles ways out of it, if Adama does indeed decide to launch :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 02:17, 21 December 2006 (CST)

::::Am I the only one who thinks he might be targeting the nukes for the Raiders on their way to the surface? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:53, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Then why this-
:::::'''Adama''':Load target package three-bravo. Set ground zero for the underground structure.
::::: -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 19:19, 29 December 2006 (CST)

:::::: Damn, I missed that. Consider me stumped, then. -[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:17, 30 December 2006 (CST)

I watched the episode for the first time last night. I had this theory after the show ended...If the star of this system is going to go supernova, as Gaeta has described,

("Gaeta: Could be tomorrow. Could be next year. There's no way of knowing for sure, sir. When it does happen, the only warning that we're likely to get is a fast helium flash, at which point we'll have to jump out of here before it obliterates the entire planetary system. Sir, I am not one to look for religious signs. But I can't get my head around these odds. That human and Cylon both converge on this planet at this exact moment just as the star's about to go supernova…")

there most likely is an abundance of solar phenomena being emitted from the sun, maybe an increase of solar flares even. Solar flares have the "energy equivalent to a billion megatons, traveling normally at about 1 million km per hour"..."They produce electromagnetic radiation across the electromagnetic spectrum at all wavelengths from long-wave radio to the shortest wavelength gamma rays:(solar flare wiki ref.) I know that Solar Flares can disrupt electronics on and orbiting earth, and I'm sure Galactica's systems are somewhat protected from bursts of electromagnetic energy...but somehow I had the idea that the nukes are probably not as well insulated. Since there is so much solar activity in the region, I had the idea that maybe something like a flare (not the helium flash Gaeta talked about) would happen just as the nukes were launched..causing them to blow in the upper atmosphere directly over the temple. This would allow for quite a light show, and perhaps could allow that light shaft in the Temple of Five to be intensified. On the BaseStar with Baltar and Three, the Hybrid mentions something about "the five lights of the apocalypse" here:

"Hybrid: ...I don't care if it rains or freezes, as long as… the five lights of the apocalypse rising... sins revealed only to those who enter the temple, only to the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, end of line. Until next time … the eye, the eye, the eye, look into the eye to know thyself."

Maybe this is the way the temple is activated, maybe this is how the eye of Jupiter (Jupiter/Zeus/Adama's nukes) appears over the temple and activates the key...and Hey, maybe the solar flare would take care of the Heavy Rader flight systems too...Who knows, just an idea I had wished to share.

"Chief: And the heavens opened up, and they saw the Eye. But where is that frakking Eye?"

--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:08, 3 January 2007 (CST)

:Holy crap that's a good theory. Wow. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)
:Nice theory indeed. Maybe the five lights of the apocalypse are actually five nukes? Nukes would qualify as lights of apocalypse, but then so would a supernova. Also, I revisited the Hybrid's prophecy: ("Find the hand that lies in the shadow of the light, in the eye of the husband of the eye of the cow"). The light is most likely the bright star cluster (although it could also be the nukes, the supernova or the helium flash), but "in the shadow" hasn't really been explained properly. Now I just realized that since the temple is an underground structure, it would be in the shadow all the time. Might be something, might not be something, we'll see. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:47, 3 January 2007 (CST)

== WTF moment ==

I was on the [[Karl Agathon]] page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across [[:Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|this old picture]]. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding '''unsigned''' comment was added by {{User|Alcibiades}}.
: Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting ''really really really'' looks like the art in the temple. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::It's a painting in her room and part of the column in the temple. :) --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)
: So Starbuck is an artist. She paints The Eye of Jupiter. Is it a known symbol or is this the first time anyone else has seen it? If it's not well-known, what does that say about Starbuck? Doesn't it make her prescient? Maybe her true calling is as an oracle. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:29, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I'm with Catrope here. If I'm remembering my "Valley Of Darkness" podcast correctly, Tahmoh and Katee painted the apartment themselves, without any direction from Ron or the rest of the show crew. It's quite possible that someone noticed that particular pattern and decided to make it significant. And, hey, maybe she ''is'' an Oracle who just hasn't realized that she has the gift. Give the girl some chamalla and see what she can do. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Starbuck found a spiritual calling to fill the enormous gaps in her soul that she tries to fill with sex, booze, speed, duty, and violence. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:33, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:A friend of mine told me he though the painting and the decoration looked a lot like a star or an explosion, and then brought up the word "supernova". Could this picture be some sort of reference to the star going supernova? (I must admit I'm contradicting myself here, because I said earlier I thought the similarity to be some sort of an inside joke. Of course it's possible that Sackhoff&Penikett accidentally painted something that looked like an explosion, and that's why the writers chose that particular painting.) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:36, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::I've updated the [[Cylon agent speculation]] article on Thrace's entry with the two pictures in question. This is not a coincidence; there is some connection, but we have to wait to know what. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:45, 12 January 2007 (CST)
Well it turns out Mitsukai was right, and a lot of others were not!--[[User:Alcibiades|Alcibiades]] 05:43, 23 January 2007 (CST)
:Mitsukai was right, brilliantly found indeed, but don't forget about me and my friend :P (see comment above). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 07:30, 23 January 2007 (CST)
::Catrope, you were dead on. Ron Moore confirms on the podcast that Sackhoff painted it on the set and the writers, looking at that shoot sometime during the writing of this episode, decided to incorporate it. It's kind of scary how the parts fit together so neatly even though they ARE coming up with stuff by the seat of their pants. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:37, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:::Aye it is. Don't forget that the entire Starbuck-storyline pretty much goes back to [[Flesh and Bone]], when [[Leoben]] says she's special and she has a pre-written destiny. In [[The Farm]], [[Caprica-Sharon]] repeats it, meaning that it's not some of Leoben's usual crap. And now we finally get a clue as to what he meant. It all fits perfectly, yet Season 1 and 2 can hardly have been written with this episode in mind. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 03:34, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== 18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage" ==

If 18 people were lost from '''The Passage''' episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto ''Galactica'' (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and ''Galactica'' would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

: Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight ==

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "[[Cylon Agent]]" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:I thought it could be something like recognizing a computer by its IP address, y'know, like the Cylons are all tied into one network and they've got like a special ID code on that network. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:45, 24 January 2007 (CST)

==Names of marines==
Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is [[Fischer]], but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

::OK, we know that it's [[Fischer]], [[Griggs]], [[Varrick]], [[Henick]] and [[Ditko]]. Since after she says "Henick and Ditko" the camera centers first on the black guy and then on the bald guy, can we assume that the first one is Henick and the latter one is Ditko, and the one in a hat is Griggs? It's conjectural, but looks reasonable to me and it would be nice to add pictures to their articles. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 14:46, 22 December 2006 (CST)

== Location of the Eye? ==

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)
::Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: The [[Sacred Scrolls]] have so far contained information about [[Laura Roslin]] being sick, [[Sharon Agathon]] helping them to find the [[Tomb of Athena]], and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: Note the shaft of light streaming across the central pillar in the final scenes of the episode. Perhaps something will be revealed when it becomes centered upon the prominent symbol seen there. --[[User:Spidey3|Spidey3]] 12:29, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::That was the way my mind was working. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:39, 18 December 2006 (CST)
I believe that the Sky Opening Up will be the explosion of the nuclear weaponry activating or destroying something which will then reveal the Eye. --[[User:Teal Thanatos|Teal Thanatos]]

== Boomer in the brig? ==

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:Besides, the least thing they need on ''Galactica'' right now would be Boomer to break out of the brig, throw on a uniform and have a "Guess the Sharon" contest. Aside from that, I expect that kind of trite plotwork I just mentioned from lesser sci-fi series, not this one.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Summary ==

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five ==

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. {{unsigned|Tylonius}}

:To ''Battlestar's'' credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

::Time may not be an issue. Remember the Colonial Scriptures are full of prophecies, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that the Temple of Five could've been constructed for something before it happened, for the purpose of making it happen in due time.

::The Five could do whatever releated them to the temple much like Roslin is directly related to finding the tomb Athena, even though she lived thousands of years after everything else was set.

::This is all speculation, of course, but oh well....--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:59, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:::The Final Five are directly connected to the Temple of Five: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2006/12/one_of_the_cent.html -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:16, 20 December 2006 (CST)

::::“Essentially the Temple of the Five is directly connected to the five Cylons we have not seen.” - RDM
::::I've been thinking about the ambiguous ''sins'' the [[Hybrid]] mentions, that appear to be in regards to the Five. My working theory is that the five priests who served "The One Who Cannot Be..." and the Five Cylon Models who served the Cylon God both committed the ''sin'' of Rebellion, and that both dieties they rebelled against are one and the same. I also (big leap now), think that Model One is among the Rebel Five. Being rebel ''Angels of God'' (as Virtual-Six refers to herself), that would make One the RDM-equivalent to TOS-Lucifer, now wouldn't it? Chief and first of the (from the cylon perspective) "fallen" angels (as opposed to speculation that One ''is'' the Cylon God) --[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 02:16, 23 December 2006 (CST)

== Human Nicknames ==
I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points).
Cropped text:
*This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
**It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]] and [[Simon]]. In ''[[The Passage]]'', D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".
Thanks. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:
*This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. [[Caprica-Six]]).
*Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of [[Cavil]]'s, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s and [[Simon]]'s numbers. In "[[Torn]]", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "[[The Passage]]" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.
:Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged".
I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new number though. We've heard plenty of statements like "We Threes think we can't take the risk.", ideal statements to introduce new numbers with. Of course these numbers aren't a big deal, but die-hard fans tend to like to know these details. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::True. Though the more detail the introduce, the more chances they have to get it wrong. Even with the few model numbers we have revealed RDM sometimes has [[Podcast:The_Passage#Act_1|difficulty keeping them straight]], confusing the Eight's (Sharons) with the Three's (D'annas). Either way, we'll be here, documenting. I sometimes wonder if we're (the die-hard detail documenters) aren't his worst nightmares (if we even bothers thinking about us). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:52, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::::I always thought it was a nice nod to buckaroo banzai where all the villains had the same first name. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 22:05, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::I believe it would make sense that there is a plan with rolling out the remaining agent numbers. For example, whether or not "One" is one of the missing Five has a great deal of bearing on the development of the cylon narrative, and so would be kept quiet until the episode revealing that fact. If He/She is one of the missing Five, but "Two" is not, then Two's identity ([[Cavil]], [[Leoben]], or [[Simon]]) also has a great deal of bearing on the narrative. Cavil has been shown using some leverage on Three. He's got my money for being Two. I think One is with the missing Five.--[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 22:58, 25 December 2006 (CST)

== Question on article ==

*When did [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] go over to the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons']] way of thinking? In this episode she clearly doesn't seem to think of herself as human anymore like she did in "[[Downloaded]]."
:I had assumed that by LDYB, II that the Cylons had gone over to Boomer and Caprica-Six's way of thinking, hence their (C-six and Boomer) sudden rise to power as well as the sudden Cylon cease-fire. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:24, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I think it's been established that somewhere along the way she realized that humans and cylons can't mix, and I believe she says something to that effect in Rapture. Where exactly this revelation came I'm not sure, or my memory is lacking, but she has had a lot of shit happen to her. On the latest podcast, Moore says they cut a lot of story on the basestar with Caprica, Hera and Boomer's surliness towards Tyrol. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 02:19, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Hera ==

I cannot believe that Adm. Adama has apparently no idea what happened to Hera. He was involved in this discussion in [[Downloaded]]. He should knew that Hera and her foster mother moved to [[New Caprica]]. I am very surprised that he became so angry after Roslin told him that she kept the child in her school. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 17:21, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:Adama and Roslin only agreed in "[[Downloaded]]" that Sharon cannot be allowesd raise the baby. Maybe he assumed/was told that Hera was killed by Cottle? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:34, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::That they concluded at the discussion that the child should be killed would fit with this episode events and Baltars look at the end of "Downloaded" when being chided by his internal six. However that option was mentioned onscreen and the entire tone of the conversation at that point makes it seem somewhat unlikely that this would been the final decision. Given that Baltar was never in on the adoption-plot (he apparently didn't know Hera was alive on New Caprica) and we now know Adama didn't know about it either the discussion outcome must have been either to kill the child or to postpone the decision (with Heras apparent death solving the problem). I'm quite willing to buy that Adama believed the child had died a natural death, given that complication in a hybrid between man and machine were to exspected. But I have troubles with Roslin doing it all behind Adamas back (why did she have to do that?) and Adama not making a decision whatever immediately (in Downloaded). [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:40, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Recent Summary Reorganization Problems ==

I'm normally OK about reorganization of a summary, but the recent one handled by SgtPayne creates more work and confusion. Links previously added are missing, conventions once there are missing, and the narrative flow of the summary is extremely confusing. Normally we can break up events by location (events on Galactica, basestars, planets) because they are mostly separate events that don't directly connect, but this episode has both Cylons and Colonial events occurring in response to each other and in "real-time." I am ''this close'' to rolling back the summary and adding edits made afterwards to restore both narrative flow and conventions, but I wanted comments from others first. As an admin I would just roll it back because of all the wikilinking and convention breakage, but it's more than that. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:36, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:This is one that I might suggest we do "Act" reporting summary. So the events are intertwined. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:56, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::I believe that's exactly what the summary contained before that infamous edit: a chronological report of the events in this episode. Since everything and everyone interacts with eachother and is at the same place, that would be a logical choice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:03, 20 December 2006 (CST) (I hate edit conflicts)
:I haven't checked it for style and links, but I agree that the summary should be chronological. Splitting up the locations is fine if they aren't related. But as you said, here they are heavily interwined and dependent on each other --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:'''Revert.''' It looked better the way it was. The new split makes for a very confusing read. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I have reverted the article and restored relevant edits made after that reorganization. One persistant edit that I keep changing involves the "shaft of light" in the Temple as Tyrol is inspecting the symbology in the Temple. That "shaft" is Tyrol's flashlight beam. While that direct light ''might'' do something unexpected as it approaches the central target-shaped symbol, it's not coming from some mystic source within the structure. I've clarified this in the article. Contributors are always free to edit it, but its fairly clear, so analysis should be used to interpret what it might do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:48, 20 December 2006 (CST)

In light of the recent reversion, I should drop my two cents in regarding the "reorganization". When I first read the article, I felt that it was too "narrative" rather than "summary", which is what the section suggests. The consolidation was an attempt to make the information as concise as possible. I also attempted to keep as many reference links as necessary. In regards to the location split, this was done in line with previous articles, which had definitive locations. My apologies if it confused readers, but it should be said that summaries are just that, and should not be play-by-play accounts of the episode. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 12:18, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:The location split you introduced is good practice when there are multiple storylines that do not interfere with eachother. A nice example of that is "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". In most episodes this is the case (end s1-begin s2 even had 3 or 4 separate storylines), but in this particular episode the three locations affect eachother so greatly that the split you introduced makes for extemely confusing reading: a bullet point in the basestar story references events told in the Galactica part, and viceverse. (Let's not even start about the Algae Planet part). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:45, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::You bring up a good point. In trying to put it together, there were some areas where I wasn't sure where to put it. On the whole, I was looking to clean it up a bit. Trying to read it line-for-line blurs out after a while... --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 14:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::I've broken up the summary into acts. It seems to solve both problems. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:24, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::aye. nice job. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:34, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I concur. It definitely cleans up the look of the page. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 22:55, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Missile Tubes==
Where exactly are they and shouldnt that be an article in "Galactica Areas" Snorkel378

:They are located on the dorsal side of the ship, slightly forward of the four guns ahead of the Colonial seal, and sit in two rows of six. And sure, why not create an article in that section? -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 19:12, 29 December 2006 (CST)

== More Nested Analysis ==
*The [[tylium]] planned for the mines could only come from their single Raptor. This supports the [[Substances in the Re-imagined Series#The Tylium Question|high energy yield of the fuel]] that, at the same time, would not sacrifice the Raptor's flight ability.
**It's also possible that the tylium used was fuel stored at the camp to power its generators and/or refuel the Raptors and other ships involved in the harvest.
Please resolve these into either one or two single-level bullets, then re-add to the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:56, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:Done. I also updated the nuke count in this section. Admiral Adama orders launch tubes four through ten loaded, which means he's prepared seven nuclear warheads, not six. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 09:05, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::Nicely done. Thanks! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:51, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Major Point:
Note that Hera is the wife of Roman God Jupiter, the derivative of the Greek Zeus. {{unsigned|PhoenixFlight}}
:Yes, Hera's counterpart in the Roman pantheon is Juno. The association is noted over many episodes to date. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:22, 6 January 2007 (CST)

== Playing with the date? ==

In Kobol's Last Gleaming, they stated the ruins on Kobol were 2000 years old, "around the time of the exodus of the 13 tribes". When they found the beacon at the Lion's Head Nebula, they said it was 3000 years old, and now they're saying the Temple of Five is at least 4000 years old. Each time they give a new date a thousand years earlier, it seems to still coincide with the exodus date of the thirteenth tribe.

Am I the only one noticing this inconsistancy?

: My memory may be off, but I was under the impression that the 13th tribe left Kobol long before the other twelve. So... maybe the 13th tribe left 4k years ago, and the rest left 2k years later. Fanwankery? Spotty memory on my part? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:08, 25 December 2006 (CST)

::Both, sort of. The date in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" refers to all thirteen tribes collectively. In "A Measure of Salvation" and "The Eye of Jupiter", they refer to the thirteenth tribe alone.
::'''Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I'''
:::Roslin: How old are the ruins?
:::Billy: We won't know for sure until they send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years.
:::Elosha: That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol
::'''A Measure of Salvation'''
:::Adama: According to Cottle, the virus was an exact match to one reported over 3,000 years ago. Right around the time that the Thirteenth Colony left Kobol.
::'''The Eye of Jupiter'''
:::Tyrol: Our initial radiocarbon dating suggests that the temple's at least 4,000 years old, which lines up with the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe.
::--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:16, 26 December 2006 (CST)

:::Here's a thought. What if this isn't an accident? We've speculated already that humanity might have emigrated from Earth to Kobol before the thirteenth tribe returned. If the further away from Kobol we get, the older the artifacts we find, what does that tell us? That the thirteenth tribe was traveling not from Kobol to Earth, but from Earth to Kobol. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 06:03, 28 December 2006 (CST)

::::Well, it may not be an accident, but the Colonials seem to think that the 13th tribe left Kobol for Earth. So why, upon finding that the artifacts get older as they journey further from Kobol/closer to Earth, would they conclude that the dating analysis confirms their scriptures? Put another way, if they dates say the tribe went from Earth to Kobol, but the scriptures say they went from Kobol to Earth, why aren't the Colonials confused? It's an interesting idea, nonetheless. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:29, 31 December 2006 (CST)

:::::Okay, it could also be that we're giving the Colonials too much credit in their dating. Elosha is a priest. Maybe her date of 2,000 is based on scripture, not fact. Also, the date of 4,000 could just mean that it predates the time that they knew the other 12 colonies left Kobol, thus it had to be built by the 13th tribe. The 13th tribe may have had outposts all throughout the galaxy while still calling Kobol home. Furthermore, since there are apparently 21,000 years of recorded history, maybe to the Colonials a few thousand years of inaccuracy in dating don't really make a difference. You could compare it to modern day humans who confuse the 15th and 16th centuries. Of course, now I'm fully in the territory of fanwanking/making up excuses. The seven months/nine months disparity with regard to the Colonial election was never even acknowledged, so there is a good possibility these inconsistent dates are just a product of sloppiness. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:40, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Nut we Don't know how long it took to get everyone from earth off of kobol because it would take awhile to get huge civilizations away from a planet.Snorkel378

== Dichotomy of Signs to Earth==

I find it rather interesting that the first real sign to Earth that they found was a satellite/probe (first found by the Cylons). This would represent the high tech sign-post to Earth. The second sign to Earth is this hidden "Temple of Five" which is plainly a spiritual sign. Anyone else thing this is very interesting? I wonder what was on the satellite. Too bad RDM didn't allow them to examine it. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 21:57, 26 December 2006 (CST)

==The G-4==
Hey how come in the summary it doesnt mention the G-4 about to go off right by Tyrol? Snorkel378

:*Unaware how events are escalating around and above him, Chief Tyrol illuminates the carved writings of the Temple with his flashlight and reads the inscriptions, trying to locate the actual resting place of the Eye. At one point, his flashlight's beam moves close to the target-shaped symbol in the center of the central spire.
:How about we make that:
:*Having strapped explosives to the central spire of the temple, Chief Tyrol...
:--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:17, 31 December 2006 (CST)

No I mean the activation light on 1 of the explosives is blinking which means it is going to detonate.The article does not mention that.
Snorkel378
:There is nothing to suggest that the blinking lights don't simply mean that it is armed rather than about to explode. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])

Yes but the music can easily tell u what is happening and it has a danger coming sound to it-Snorkel378
:Thats fanwanking. We have seen nothing to suggest that the explosives are about to detonate. All we know is that the explosives are armed and the flashing light could simply be to note that fact. You may very well be right but so far there has been no aired information to say that you are and until the next episode airs we wont know. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)

You are right I geuss im some crazy kid huh :) Snorkel378

:The explosives set by Tyrol and Anders in Occupation have a light that blinks, but the explosives only go off when the detonator is activated. The light is in no way indicative of and impending explosion -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 15:51, 12 January 2007 (CST)

== Last name in the credits ==

Okay, after a month, I think I finally found the last remaining actor/character in the closing credits. Thanks to the inane sense of necessity in scrunching the credits (so they can apparently advertise the same things they do 23 times a day in normal commerical airtime) I was unable to read the last name, getting the first two through squinting and deduction. I skimmed one last time and believe I found the last, unreadable name. According to
[http://www.thelogbook.com/logbook/series/battlestar-galactica-new/newgalactica-season-3/page/2/ this site] it's [[Tygh Runyan]] as Pvt. [[Byers]]. I looked at the guy at IMDb and although he's not given the credit (no surprise), he ''can'' be spotted in the episode. Even [http://tv.yahoo.com/battlestar-galactica/show/the-eye-of-jupiter-part-1/episode/111786/castcrew Tv.Yahoo], a considerably more reliable source, has him listed (sans character name). Any disagreement in adding him? I'm sure someone here has clear visual access to the credit, but I'm going through a consensus since it hasn't been added by said "someone". --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 00:04, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:Do you have a screenshot for us to look at? Might be best to wait for it to air in HD then it will be much clearer. Alternatively ask on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques]] page. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:27, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:: TYoJ Will be airing in HD over here in a few weeks, not sure about America though. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 03:32, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:::I have the iTunes copy of this: I've confirmed the same names and spelling. Do we know where he is (on the planet?). That would be enough to make a stub. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:23, 16 January 2007 (CST)
I've only spotted him in one scene. It's at the start of Act 4 when Anders is dividing them up into two teams. He is among those Sam is talking to, wearing a cap and at one point, he's given an entire frame (with Anders' shoulder in the foreground). He appears mainly in a shot where he is at the very left, with Lee, Barolay, and Anders to his right. I hope that paints a good enough picture since I'm unable to get a screencap. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 13:59, 16 January 2007 (CST)

== Music ==

Could some1 tell me what was that ''song'' at the end of the episode. There were no lyrics, just music, and it was a really good choice, it shows nicely how the tension grows at the end. Plz if u know what song it is write it... TNX ;) {{unsigned|DedMed}}

:http://bearmccreary.com/
:Check out the blog for example, though it doesn't refer to that particular piece. It's no particular song, but like nearly all of the music on BSG an original composition. You can find similar pieces on the soundtracks for the first two seasons and it might even have been reused from an earlier episode --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:01, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2007-07-06T20:22:51Z

DuMan: /* Ring Nebula Discussion? */

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like a good plotline actually. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
::::No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --[[User:starryniteynite|starryniteynite]]

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

== Duelling Sharons ==

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

:It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our ''Galactica'' nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using ''us'' as a source! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes ''aren't'' Class-D? :P --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Image==
Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

So... is someone with the means actually going to replace the image with one relevant to this episode? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 21:12, 20 December 2006 (CST)

:Silly joking aside, I agree that the picture should be replaced. I'd do it, but I don't have a good screencap --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:34, 23 December 2006 (CST)

:I happen to have the episode, so, it's done. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:57, 23 December 2006 (CST)

::Well, I still see a thumbnail of the old image here and there (e.g. on the main page or on Mercifull's user page). -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:09, 27 December 2006 (CST)

:::You may need to purge your browser's image cache to see the new image. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:12, 28 December 2006 (CST)

::::I've just purged my Maxthon's image cache a moment ago and I still see an old thumbnail. Tried that also with Opera and Firefox -- all the same. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:27, 28 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Starbuck survive?==
Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" '''hoping''' the Cylons would shoot her down.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Nuking the Planet==

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Or perhaps the missiles can be aborted, until they reach a critical flight time. Could make for a ''very'' tense moment or two. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:Is it just me or didn't he actually give the order to fire. He said "release of nuclear weapons is now authorized". That might sound strange, but I took that to be a preliminary order to firing. For example that now even Tigh would be able to launch them on his say --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:03, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::No, you're correct on that; essentially all they were doing was opening the "barn doors". I was discussing the hypotheticals of the missiles, if they should be launched in the next ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:33, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:::Aye, we're just jumping the gun a little, and discussing possibles ways out of it, if Adama does indeed decide to launch :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 02:17, 21 December 2006 (CST)

::::Am I the only one who thinks he might be targeting the nukes for the Raiders on their way to the surface? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:53, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Then why this-
:::::'''Adama''':Load target package three-bravo. Set ground zero for the underground structure.
::::: -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 19:19, 29 December 2006 (CST)

:::::: Damn, I missed that. Consider me stumped, then. -[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:17, 30 December 2006 (CST)

I watched the episode for the first time last night. I had this theory after the show ended...If the star of this system is going to go supernova, as Gaeta has described,

("Gaeta: Could be tomorrow. Could be next year. There's no way of knowing for sure, sir. When it does happen, the only warning that we're likely to get is a fast helium flash, at which point we'll have to jump out of here before it obliterates the entire planetary system. Sir, I am not one to look for religious signs. But I can't get my head around these odds. That human and Cylon both converge on this planet at this exact moment just as the star's about to go supernova…")

there most likely is an abundance of solar phenomena being emitted from the sun, maybe an increase of solar flares even. Solar flares have the "energy equivalent to a billion megatons, traveling normally at about 1 million km per hour"..."They produce electromagnetic radiation across the electromagnetic spectrum at all wavelengths from long-wave radio to the shortest wavelength gamma rays:(solar flare wiki ref.) I know that Solar Flares can disrupt electronics on and orbiting earth, and I'm sure Galactica's systems are somewhat protected from bursts of electromagnetic energy...but somehow I had the idea that the nukes are probably not as well insulated. Since there is so much solar activity in the region, I had the idea that maybe something like a flare (not the helium flash Gaeta talked about) would happen just as the nukes were launched..causing them to blow in the upper atmosphere directly over the temple. This would allow for quite a light show, and perhaps could allow that light shaft in the Temple of Five to be intensified. On the BaseStar with Baltar and Three, the Hybrid mentions something about "the five lights of the apocalypse" here:

"Hybrid: ...I don't care if it rains or freezes, as long as… the five lights of the apocalypse rising... sins revealed only to those who enter the temple, only to the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, end of line. Until next time … the eye, the eye, the eye, look into the eye to know thyself."

Maybe this is the way the temple is activated, maybe this is how the eye of Jupiter (Jupiter/Zeus/Adama's nukes) appears over the temple and activates the key...and Hey, maybe the solar flare would take care of the Heavy Rader flight systems too...Who knows, just an idea I had wished to share.

"Chief: And the heavens opened up, and they saw the Eye. But where is that frakking Eye?"

--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:08, 3 January 2007 (CST)

:Holy crap that's a good theory. Wow. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)
:Nice theory indeed. Maybe the five lights of the apocalypse are actually five nukes? Nukes would qualify as lights of apocalypse, but then so would a supernova. Also, I revisited the Hybrid's prophecy: ("Find the hand that lies in the shadow of the light, in the eye of the husband of the eye of the cow"). The light is most likely the bright star cluster (although it could also be the nukes, the supernova or the helium flash), but "in the shadow" hasn't really been explained properly. Now I just realized that since the temple is an underground structure, it would be in the shadow all the time. Might be something, might not be something, we'll see. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:47, 3 January 2007 (CST)

== WTF moment ==

I was on the [[Karl Agathon]] page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across [[:Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|this old picture]]. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding '''unsigned''' comment was added by {{User|Alcibiades}}.
: Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting ''really really really'' looks like the art in the temple. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::It's a painting in her room and part of the column in the temple. :) --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)
: So Starbuck is an artist. She paints The Eye of Jupiter. Is it a known symbol or is this the first time anyone else has seen it? If it's not well-known, what does that say about Starbuck? Doesn't it make her prescient? Maybe her true calling is as an oracle. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:29, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I'm with Catrope here. If I'm remembering my "Valley Of Darkness" podcast correctly, Tahmoh and Katee painted the apartment themselves, without any direction from Ron or the rest of the show crew. It's quite possible that someone noticed that particular pattern and decided to make it significant. And, hey, maybe she ''is'' an Oracle who just hasn't realized that she has the gift. Give the girl some chamalla and see what she can do. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Starbuck found a spiritual calling to fill the enormous gaps in her soul that she tries to fill with sex, booze, speed, duty, and violence. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:33, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:A friend of mine told me he though the painting and the decoration looked a lot like a star or an explosion, and then brought up the word "supernova". Could this picture be some sort of reference to the star going supernova? (I must admit I'm contradicting myself here, because I said earlier I thought the similarity to be some sort of an inside joke. Of course it's possible that Sackhoff&Penikett accidentally painted something that looked like an explosion, and that's why the writers chose that particular painting.) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:36, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::I've updated the [[Cylon agent speculation]] article on Thrace's entry with the two pictures in question. This is not a coincidence; there is some connection, but we have to wait to know what. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:45, 12 January 2007 (CST)
Well it turns out Mitsukai was right, and a lot of others were not!--[[User:Alcibiades|Alcibiades]] 05:43, 23 January 2007 (CST)
:Mitsukai was right, brilliantly found indeed, but don't forget about me and my friend :P (see comment above). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 07:30, 23 January 2007 (CST)
::Catrope, you were dead on. Ron Moore confirms on the podcast that Sackhoff painted it on the set and the writers, looking at that shoot sometime during the writing of this episode, decided to incorporate it. It's kind of scary how the parts fit together so neatly even though they ARE coming up with stuff by the seat of their pants. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:37, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:::Aye it is. Don't forget that the entire Starbuck-storyline pretty much goes back to [[Flesh and Bone]], when [[Leoben]] says she's special and she has a pre-written destiny. In [[The Farm]], [[Caprica-Sharon]] repeats it, meaning that it's not some of Leoben's usual crap. And now we finally get a clue as to what he meant. It all fits perfectly, yet Season 1 and 2 can hardly have been written with this episode in mind. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 03:34, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Ring Nebula Discussion? ==

Did I miss the discussion on the Eye of Jupiter's connection to the [[w:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_Nebula|Ring Nebula]]? They mention on Wikipedia that it was used in nBSG, plus that's what I thought the eye was once I saw the picture Helo showed Starbuck. It would be ingenious if it were because it is known as one of the few prolate spheroids that points directly at Earth, thus it would be a great arrow. When reading about the writers' discussion on how use the supernova in Rapture to lead the way to Earth, I was greatly disappointed they didn't use the fact that some supernovas can have a prolate spheriod shape. I hope they use it in season 4.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 15:22, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

== 18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage" ==

If 18 people were lost from '''The Passage''' episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto ''Galactica'' (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and ''Galactica'' would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

: Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight ==

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "[[Cylon Agent]]" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:I thought it could be something like recognizing a computer by its IP address, y'know, like the Cylons are all tied into one network and they've got like a special ID code on that network. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:45, 24 January 2007 (CST)

==Names of marines==
Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is [[Fischer]], but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

::OK, we know that it's [[Fischer]], [[Griggs]], [[Varrick]], [[Henick]] and [[Ditko]]. Since after she says "Henick and Ditko" the camera centers first on the black guy and then on the bald guy, can we assume that the first one is Henick and the latter one is Ditko, and the one in a hat is Griggs? It's conjectural, but looks reasonable to me and it would be nice to add pictures to their articles. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 14:46, 22 December 2006 (CST)

== Location of the Eye? ==

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)
::Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: The [[Sacred Scrolls]] have so far contained information about [[Laura Roslin]] being sick, [[Sharon Agathon]] helping them to find the [[Tomb of Athena]], and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: Note the shaft of light streaming across the central pillar in the final scenes of the episode. Perhaps something will be revealed when it becomes centered upon the prominent symbol seen there. --[[User:Spidey3|Spidey3]] 12:29, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::That was the way my mind was working. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:39, 18 December 2006 (CST)
I believe that the Sky Opening Up will be the explosion of the nuclear weaponry activating or destroying something which will then reveal the Eye. --[[User:Teal Thanatos|Teal Thanatos]]

== Boomer in the brig? ==

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:Besides, the least thing they need on ''Galactica'' right now would be Boomer to break out of the brig, throw on a uniform and have a "Guess the Sharon" contest. Aside from that, I expect that kind of trite plotwork I just mentioned from lesser sci-fi series, not this one.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Summary ==

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five ==

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. {{unsigned|Tylonius}}

:To ''Battlestar's'' credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

::Time may not be an issue. Remember the Colonial Scriptures are full of prophecies, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that the Temple of Five could've been constructed for something before it happened, for the purpose of making it happen in due time.

::The Five could do whatever releated them to the temple much like Roslin is directly related to finding the tomb Athena, even though she lived thousands of years after everything else was set.

::This is all speculation, of course, but oh well....--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:59, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:::The Final Five are directly connected to the Temple of Five: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2006/12/one_of_the_cent.html -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:16, 20 December 2006 (CST)

::::“Essentially the Temple of the Five is directly connected to the five Cylons we have not seen.” - RDM
::::I've been thinking about the ambiguous ''sins'' the [[Hybrid]] mentions, that appear to be in regards to the Five. My working theory is that the five priests who served "The One Who Cannot Be..." and the Five Cylon Models who served the Cylon God both committed the ''sin'' of Rebellion, and that both dieties they rebelled against are one and the same. I also (big leap now), think that Model One is among the Rebel Five. Being rebel ''Angels of God'' (as Virtual-Six refers to herself), that would make One the RDM-equivalent to TOS-Lucifer, now wouldn't it? Chief and first of the (from the cylon perspective) "fallen" angels (as opposed to speculation that One ''is'' the Cylon God) --[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 02:16, 23 December 2006 (CST)

== Human Nicknames ==
I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points).
Cropped text:
*This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
**It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]] and [[Simon]]. In ''[[The Passage]]'', D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".
Thanks. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:
*This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. [[Caprica-Six]]).
*Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of [[Cavil]]'s, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s and [[Simon]]'s numbers. In "[[Torn]]", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "[[The Passage]]" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.
:Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged".
I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new number though. We've heard plenty of statements like "We Threes think we can't take the risk.", ideal statements to introduce new numbers with. Of course these numbers aren't a big deal, but die-hard fans tend to like to know these details. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::True. Though the more detail the introduce, the more chances they have to get it wrong. Even with the few model numbers we have revealed RDM sometimes has [[Podcast:The_Passage#Act_1|difficulty keeping them straight]], confusing the Eight's (Sharons) with the Three's (D'annas). Either way, we'll be here, documenting. I sometimes wonder if we're (the die-hard detail documenters) aren't his worst nightmares (if we even bothers thinking about us). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:52, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::::I always thought it was a nice nod to buckaroo banzai where all the villains had the same first name. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 22:05, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::I believe it would make sense that there is a plan with rolling out the remaining agent numbers. For example, whether or not "One" is one of the missing Five has a great deal of bearing on the development of the cylon narrative, and so would be kept quiet until the episode revealing that fact. If He/She is one of the missing Five, but "Two" is not, then Two's identity ([[Cavil]], [[Leoben]], or [[Simon]]) also has a great deal of bearing on the narrative. Cavil has been shown using some leverage on Three. He's got my money for being Two. I think One is with the missing Five.--[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 22:58, 25 December 2006 (CST)

== Question on article ==

*When did [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] go over to the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons']] way of thinking? In this episode she clearly doesn't seem to think of herself as human anymore like she did in "[[Downloaded]]."
:I had assumed that by LDYB, II that the Cylons had gone over to Boomer and Caprica-Six's way of thinking, hence their (C-six and Boomer) sudden rise to power as well as the sudden Cylon cease-fire. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:24, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I think it's been established that somewhere along the way she realized that humans and cylons can't mix, and I believe she says something to that effect in Rapture. Where exactly this revelation came I'm not sure, or my memory is lacking, but she has had a lot of shit happen to her. On the latest podcast, Moore says they cut a lot of story on the basestar with Caprica, Hera and Boomer's surliness towards Tyrol. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 02:19, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Hera ==

I cannot believe that Adm. Adama has apparently no idea what happened to Hera. He was involved in this discussion in [[Downloaded]]. He should knew that Hera and her foster mother moved to [[New Caprica]]. I am very surprised that he became so angry after Roslin told him that she kept the child in her school. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 17:21, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:Adama and Roslin only agreed in "[[Downloaded]]" that Sharon cannot be allowesd raise the baby. Maybe he assumed/was told that Hera was killed by Cottle? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:34, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::That they concluded at the discussion that the child should be killed would fit with this episode events and Baltars look at the end of "Downloaded" when being chided by his internal six. However that option was mentioned onscreen and the entire tone of the conversation at that point makes it seem somewhat unlikely that this would been the final decision. Given that Baltar was never in on the adoption-plot (he apparently didn't know Hera was alive on New Caprica) and we now know Adama didn't know about it either the discussion outcome must have been either to kill the child or to postpone the decision (with Heras apparent death solving the problem). I'm quite willing to buy that Adama believed the child had died a natural death, given that complication in a hybrid between man and machine were to exspected. But I have troubles with Roslin doing it all behind Adamas back (why did she have to do that?) and Adama not making a decision whatever immediately (in Downloaded). [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:40, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Recent Summary Reorganization Problems ==

I'm normally OK about reorganization of a summary, but the recent one handled by SgtPayne creates more work and confusion. Links previously added are missing, conventions once there are missing, and the narrative flow of the summary is extremely confusing. Normally we can break up events by location (events on Galactica, basestars, planets) because they are mostly separate events that don't directly connect, but this episode has both Cylons and Colonial events occurring in response to each other and in "real-time." I am ''this close'' to rolling back the summary and adding edits made afterwards to restore both narrative flow and conventions, but I wanted comments from others first. As an admin I would just roll it back because of all the wikilinking and convention breakage, but it's more than that. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:36, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:This is one that I might suggest we do "Act" reporting summary. So the events are intertwined. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:56, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::I believe that's exactly what the summary contained before that infamous edit: a chronological report of the events in this episode. Since everything and everyone interacts with eachother and is at the same place, that would be a logical choice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:03, 20 December 2006 (CST) (I hate edit conflicts)
:I haven't checked it for style and links, but I agree that the summary should be chronological. Splitting up the locations is fine if they aren't related. But as you said, here they are heavily interwined and dependent on each other --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:'''Revert.''' It looked better the way it was. The new split makes for a very confusing read. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I have reverted the article and restored relevant edits made after that reorganization. One persistant edit that I keep changing involves the "shaft of light" in the Temple as Tyrol is inspecting the symbology in the Temple. That "shaft" is Tyrol's flashlight beam. While that direct light ''might'' do something unexpected as it approaches the central target-shaped symbol, it's not coming from some mystic source within the structure. I've clarified this in the article. Contributors are always free to edit it, but its fairly clear, so analysis should be used to interpret what it might do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:48, 20 December 2006 (CST)

In light of the recent reversion, I should drop my two cents in regarding the "reorganization". When I first read the article, I felt that it was too "narrative" rather than "summary", which is what the section suggests. The consolidation was an attempt to make the information as concise as possible. I also attempted to keep as many reference links as necessary. In regards to the location split, this was done in line with previous articles, which had definitive locations. My apologies if it confused readers, but it should be said that summaries are just that, and should not be play-by-play accounts of the episode. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 12:18, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:The location split you introduced is good practice when there are multiple storylines that do not interfere with eachother. A nice example of that is "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". In most episodes this is the case (end s1-begin s2 even had 3 or 4 separate storylines), but in this particular episode the three locations affect eachother so greatly that the split you introduced makes for extemely confusing reading: a bullet point in the basestar story references events told in the Galactica part, and viceverse. (Let's not even start about the Algae Planet part). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:45, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::You bring up a good point. In trying to put it together, there were some areas where I wasn't sure where to put it. On the whole, I was looking to clean it up a bit. Trying to read it line-for-line blurs out after a while... --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 14:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::I've broken up the summary into acts. It seems to solve both problems. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:24, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::aye. nice job. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:34, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I concur. It definitely cleans up the look of the page. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 22:55, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Missile Tubes==
Where exactly are they and shouldnt that be an article in "Galactica Areas" Snorkel378

:They are located on the dorsal side of the ship, slightly forward of the four guns ahead of the Colonial seal, and sit in two rows of six. And sure, why not create an article in that section? -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 19:12, 29 December 2006 (CST)

== More Nested Analysis ==
*The [[tylium]] planned for the mines could only come from their single Raptor. This supports the [[Substances in the Re-imagined Series#The Tylium Question|high energy yield of the fuel]] that, at the same time, would not sacrifice the Raptor's flight ability.
**It's also possible that the tylium used was fuel stored at the camp to power its generators and/or refuel the Raptors and other ships involved in the harvest.
Please resolve these into either one or two single-level bullets, then re-add to the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:56, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:Done. I also updated the nuke count in this section. Admiral Adama orders launch tubes four through ten loaded, which means he's prepared seven nuclear warheads, not six. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 09:05, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::Nicely done. Thanks! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:51, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Major Point:
Note that Hera is the wife of Roman God Jupiter, the derivative of the Greek Zeus. {{unsigned|PhoenixFlight}}
:Yes, Hera's counterpart in the Roman pantheon is Juno. The association is noted over many episodes to date. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:22, 6 January 2007 (CST)

== Playing with the date? ==

In Kobol's Last Gleaming, they stated the ruins on Kobol were 2000 years old, "around the time of the exodus of the 13 tribes". When they found the beacon at the Lion's Head Nebula, they said it was 3000 years old, and now they're saying the Temple of Five is at least 4000 years old. Each time they give a new date a thousand years earlier, it seems to still coincide with the exodus date of the thirteenth tribe.

Am I the only one noticing this inconsistancy?

: My memory may be off, but I was under the impression that the 13th tribe left Kobol long before the other twelve. So... maybe the 13th tribe left 4k years ago, and the rest left 2k years later. Fanwankery? Spotty memory on my part? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:08, 25 December 2006 (CST)

::Both, sort of. The date in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" refers to all thirteen tribes collectively. In "A Measure of Salvation" and "The Eye of Jupiter", they refer to the thirteenth tribe alone.
::'''Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I'''
:::Roslin: How old are the ruins?
:::Billy: We won't know for sure until they send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years.
:::Elosha: That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol
::'''A Measure of Salvation'''
:::Adama: According to Cottle, the virus was an exact match to one reported over 3,000 years ago. Right around the time that the Thirteenth Colony left Kobol.
::'''The Eye of Jupiter'''
:::Tyrol: Our initial radiocarbon dating suggests that the temple's at least 4,000 years old, which lines up with the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe.
::--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:16, 26 December 2006 (CST)

:::Here's a thought. What if this isn't an accident? We've speculated already that humanity might have emigrated from Earth to Kobol before the thirteenth tribe returned. If the further away from Kobol we get, the older the artifacts we find, what does that tell us? That the thirteenth tribe was traveling not from Kobol to Earth, but from Earth to Kobol. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 06:03, 28 December 2006 (CST)

::::Well, it may not be an accident, but the Colonials seem to think that the 13th tribe left Kobol for Earth. So why, upon finding that the artifacts get older as they journey further from Kobol/closer to Earth, would they conclude that the dating analysis confirms their scriptures? Put another way, if they dates say the tribe went from Earth to Kobol, but the scriptures say they went from Kobol to Earth, why aren't the Colonials confused? It's an interesting idea, nonetheless. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:29, 31 December 2006 (CST)

:::::Okay, it could also be that we're giving the Colonials too much credit in their dating. Elosha is a priest. Maybe her date of 2,000 is based on scripture, not fact. Also, the date of 4,000 could just mean that it predates the time that they knew the other 12 colonies left Kobol, thus it had to be built by the 13th tribe. The 13th tribe may have had outposts all throughout the galaxy while still calling Kobol home. Furthermore, since there are apparently 21,000 years of recorded history, maybe to the Colonials a few thousand years of inaccuracy in dating don't really make a difference. You could compare it to modern day humans who confuse the 15th and 16th centuries. Of course, now I'm fully in the territory of fanwanking/making up excuses. The seven months/nine months disparity with regard to the Colonial election was never even acknowledged, so there is a good possibility these inconsistent dates are just a product of sloppiness. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:40, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Nut we Don't know how long it took to get everyone from earth off of kobol because it would take awhile to get huge civilizations away from a planet.Snorkel378

== Dichotomy of Signs to Earth==

I find it rather interesting that the first real sign to Earth that they found was a satellite/probe (first found by the Cylons). This would represent the high tech sign-post to Earth. The second sign to Earth is this hidden "Temple of Five" which is plainly a spiritual sign. Anyone else thing this is very interesting? I wonder what was on the satellite. Too bad RDM didn't allow them to examine it. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 21:57, 26 December 2006 (CST)

==The G-4==
Hey how come in the summary it doesnt mention the G-4 about to go off right by Tyrol? Snorkel378

:*Unaware how events are escalating around and above him, Chief Tyrol illuminates the carved writings of the Temple with his flashlight and reads the inscriptions, trying to locate the actual resting place of the Eye. At one point, his flashlight's beam moves close to the target-shaped symbol in the center of the central spire.
:How about we make that:
:*Having strapped explosives to the central spire of the temple, Chief Tyrol...
:--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:17, 31 December 2006 (CST)

No I mean the activation light on 1 of the explosives is blinking which means it is going to detonate.The article does not mention that.
Snorkel378
:There is nothing to suggest that the blinking lights don't simply mean that it is armed rather than about to explode. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])

Yes but the music can easily tell u what is happening and it has a danger coming sound to it-Snorkel378
:Thats fanwanking. We have seen nothing to suggest that the explosives are about to detonate. All we know is that the explosives are armed and the flashing light could simply be to note that fact. You may very well be right but so far there has been no aired information to say that you are and until the next episode airs we wont know. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)

You are right I geuss im some crazy kid huh :) Snorkel378

:The explosives set by Tyrol and Anders in Occupation have a light that blinks, but the explosives only go off when the detonator is activated. The light is in no way indicative of and impending explosion -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 15:51, 12 January 2007 (CST)

== Last name in the credits ==

Okay, after a month, I think I finally found the last remaining actor/character in the closing credits. Thanks to the inane sense of necessity in scrunching the credits (so they can apparently advertise the same things they do 23 times a day in normal commerical airtime) I was unable to read the last name, getting the first two through squinting and deduction. I skimmed one last time and believe I found the last, unreadable name. According to
[http://www.thelogbook.com/logbook/series/battlestar-galactica-new/newgalactica-season-3/page/2/ this site] it's [[Tygh Runyan]] as Pvt. [[Byers]]. I looked at the guy at IMDb and although he's not given the credit (no surprise), he ''can'' be spotted in the episode. Even [http://tv.yahoo.com/battlestar-galactica/show/the-eye-of-jupiter-part-1/episode/111786/castcrew Tv.Yahoo], a considerably more reliable source, has him listed (sans character name). Any disagreement in adding him? I'm sure someone here has clear visual access to the credit, but I'm going through a consensus since it hasn't been added by said "someone". --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 00:04, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:Do you have a screenshot for us to look at? Might be best to wait for it to air in HD then it will be much clearer. Alternatively ask on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques]] page. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:27, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:: TYoJ Will be airing in HD over here in a few weeks, not sure about America though. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 03:32, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:::I have the iTunes copy of this: I've confirmed the same names and spelling. Do we know where he is (on the planet?). That would be enough to make a stub. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:23, 16 January 2007 (CST)
I've only spotted him in one scene. It's at the start of Act 4 when Anders is dividing them up into two teams. He is among those Sam is talking to, wearing a cap and at one point, he's given an entire frame (with Anders' shoulder in the foreground). He appears mainly in a shot where he is at the very left, with Lee, Barolay, and Anders to his right. I hope that paints a good enough picture since I'm unable to get a screencap. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 13:59, 16 January 2007 (CST)

== Music ==

Could some1 tell me what was that ''song'' at the end of the episode. There were no lyrics, just music, and it was a really good choice, it shows nicely how the tension grows at the end. Plz if u know what song it is write it... TNX ;) {{unsigned|DedMed}}

:http://bearmccreary.com/
:Check out the blog for example, though it doesn't refer to that particular piece. It's no particular song, but like nearly all of the music on BSG an original composition. You can find similar pieces on the soundtracks for the first two seasons and it might even have been reused from an earlier episode --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:01, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2007-07-06T20:13:53Z

DuMan: /* WTF moment */

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like a good plotline actually. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
::::No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --[[User:starryniteynite|starryniteynite]]

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

== Duelling Sharons ==

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

:It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our ''Galactica'' nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using ''us'' as a source! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes ''aren't'' Class-D? :P --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Image==
Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

So... is someone with the means actually going to replace the image with one relevant to this episode? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 21:12, 20 December 2006 (CST)

:Silly joking aside, I agree that the picture should be replaced. I'd do it, but I don't have a good screencap --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:34, 23 December 2006 (CST)

:I happen to have the episode, so, it's done. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:57, 23 December 2006 (CST)

::Well, I still see a thumbnail of the old image here and there (e.g. on the main page or on Mercifull's user page). -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:09, 27 December 2006 (CST)

:::You may need to purge your browser's image cache to see the new image. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:12, 28 December 2006 (CST)

::::I've just purged my Maxthon's image cache a moment ago and I still see an old thumbnail. Tried that also with Opera and Firefox -- all the same. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:27, 28 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Starbuck survive?==
Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" '''hoping''' the Cylons would shoot her down.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Nuking the Planet==

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Or perhaps the missiles can be aborted, until they reach a critical flight time. Could make for a ''very'' tense moment or two. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:Is it just me or didn't he actually give the order to fire. He said "release of nuclear weapons is now authorized". That might sound strange, but I took that to be a preliminary order to firing. For example that now even Tigh would be able to launch them on his say --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:03, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::No, you're correct on that; essentially all they were doing was opening the "barn doors". I was discussing the hypotheticals of the missiles, if they should be launched in the next ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:33, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:::Aye, we're just jumping the gun a little, and discussing possibles ways out of it, if Adama does indeed decide to launch :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 02:17, 21 December 2006 (CST)

::::Am I the only one who thinks he might be targeting the nukes for the Raiders on their way to the surface? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:53, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Then why this-
:::::'''Adama''':Load target package three-bravo. Set ground zero for the underground structure.
::::: -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 19:19, 29 December 2006 (CST)

:::::: Damn, I missed that. Consider me stumped, then. -[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:17, 30 December 2006 (CST)

I watched the episode for the first time last night. I had this theory after the show ended...If the star of this system is going to go supernova, as Gaeta has described,

("Gaeta: Could be tomorrow. Could be next year. There's no way of knowing for sure, sir. When it does happen, the only warning that we're likely to get is a fast helium flash, at which point we'll have to jump out of here before it obliterates the entire planetary system. Sir, I am not one to look for religious signs. But I can't get my head around these odds. That human and Cylon both converge on this planet at this exact moment just as the star's about to go supernova…")

there most likely is an abundance of solar phenomena being emitted from the sun, maybe an increase of solar flares even. Solar flares have the "energy equivalent to a billion megatons, traveling normally at about 1 million km per hour"..."They produce electromagnetic radiation across the electromagnetic spectrum at all wavelengths from long-wave radio to the shortest wavelength gamma rays:(solar flare wiki ref.) I know that Solar Flares can disrupt electronics on and orbiting earth, and I'm sure Galactica's systems are somewhat protected from bursts of electromagnetic energy...but somehow I had the idea that the nukes are probably not as well insulated. Since there is so much solar activity in the region, I had the idea that maybe something like a flare (not the helium flash Gaeta talked about) would happen just as the nukes were launched..causing them to blow in the upper atmosphere directly over the temple. This would allow for quite a light show, and perhaps could allow that light shaft in the Temple of Five to be intensified. On the BaseStar with Baltar and Three, the Hybrid mentions something about "the five lights of the apocalypse" here:

"Hybrid: ...I don't care if it rains or freezes, as long as… the five lights of the apocalypse rising... sins revealed only to those who enter the temple, only to the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, end of line. Until next time … the eye, the eye, the eye, look into the eye to know thyself."

Maybe this is the way the temple is activated, maybe this is how the eye of Jupiter (Jupiter/Zeus/Adama's nukes) appears over the temple and activates the key...and Hey, maybe the solar flare would take care of the Heavy Rader flight systems too...Who knows, just an idea I had wished to share.

"Chief: And the heavens opened up, and they saw the Eye. But where is that frakking Eye?"

--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:08, 3 January 2007 (CST)

:Holy crap that's a good theory. Wow. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)
:Nice theory indeed. Maybe the five lights of the apocalypse are actually five nukes? Nukes would qualify as lights of apocalypse, but then so would a supernova. Also, I revisited the Hybrid's prophecy: ("Find the hand that lies in the shadow of the light, in the eye of the husband of the eye of the cow"). The light is most likely the bright star cluster (although it could also be the nukes, the supernova or the helium flash), but "in the shadow" hasn't really been explained properly. Now I just realized that since the temple is an underground structure, it would be in the shadow all the time. Might be something, might not be something, we'll see. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:47, 3 January 2007 (CST)

== WTF moment ==

I was on the [[Karl Agathon]] page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across [[:Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|this old picture]]. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding '''unsigned''' comment was added by {{User|Alcibiades}}.
: Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting ''really really really'' looks like the art in the temple. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::It's a painting in her room and part of the column in the temple. :) --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)
: So Starbuck is an artist. She paints The Eye of Jupiter. Is it a known symbol or is this the first time anyone else has seen it? If it's not well-known, what does that say about Starbuck? Doesn't it make her prescient? Maybe her true calling is as an oracle. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:29, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I'm with Catrope here. If I'm remembering my "Valley Of Darkness" podcast correctly, Tahmoh and Katee painted the apartment themselves, without any direction from Ron or the rest of the show crew. It's quite possible that someone noticed that particular pattern and decided to make it significant. And, hey, maybe she ''is'' an Oracle who just hasn't realized that she has the gift. Give the girl some chamalla and see what she can do. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Starbuck found a spiritual calling to fill the enormous gaps in her soul that she tries to fill with sex, booze, speed, duty, and violence. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:33, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:A friend of mine told me he though the painting and the decoration looked a lot like a star or an explosion, and then brought up the word "supernova". Could this picture be some sort of reference to the star going supernova? (I must admit I'm contradicting myself here, because I said earlier I thought the similarity to be some sort of an inside joke. Of course it's possible that Sackhoff&Penikett accidentally painted something that looked like an explosion, and that's why the writers chose that particular painting.) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:36, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::I've updated the [[Cylon agent speculation]] article on Thrace's entry with the two pictures in question. This is not a coincidence; there is some connection, but we have to wait to know what. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:45, 12 January 2007 (CST)
Well it turns out Mitsukai was right, and a lot of others were not!--[[User:Alcibiades|Alcibiades]] 05:43, 23 January 2007 (CST)
:Mitsukai was right, brilliantly found indeed, but don't forget about me and my friend :P (see comment above). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 07:30, 23 January 2007 (CST)
::Catrope, you were dead on. Ron Moore confirms on the podcast that Sackhoff painted it on the set and the writers, looking at that shoot sometime during the writing of this episode, decided to incorporate it. It's kind of scary how the parts fit together so neatly even though they ARE coming up with stuff by the seat of their pants. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:37, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:::Aye it is. Don't forget that the entire Starbuck-storyline pretty much goes back to [[Flesh and Bone]], when [[Leoben]] says she's special and she has a pre-written destiny. In [[The Farm]], [[Caprica-Sharon]] repeats it, meaning that it's not some of Leoben's usual crap. And now we finally get a clue as to what he meant. It all fits perfectly, yet Season 1 and 2 can hardly have been written with this episode in mind. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 03:34, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Ring Nebula Discussion? ==

== 18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage" ==

If 18 people were lost from '''The Passage''' episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto ''Galactica'' (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and ''Galactica'' would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

: Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight ==

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "[[Cylon Agent]]" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:I thought it could be something like recognizing a computer by its IP address, y'know, like the Cylons are all tied into one network and they've got like a special ID code on that network. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:45, 24 January 2007 (CST)

==Names of marines==
Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is [[Fischer]], but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

::OK, we know that it's [[Fischer]], [[Griggs]], [[Varrick]], [[Henick]] and [[Ditko]]. Since after she says "Henick and Ditko" the camera centers first on the black guy and then on the bald guy, can we assume that the first one is Henick and the latter one is Ditko, and the one in a hat is Griggs? It's conjectural, but looks reasonable to me and it would be nice to add pictures to their articles. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 14:46, 22 December 2006 (CST)

== Location of the Eye? ==

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)
::Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: The [[Sacred Scrolls]] have so far contained information about [[Laura Roslin]] being sick, [[Sharon Agathon]] helping them to find the [[Tomb of Athena]], and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: Note the shaft of light streaming across the central pillar in the final scenes of the episode. Perhaps something will be revealed when it becomes centered upon the prominent symbol seen there. --[[User:Spidey3|Spidey3]] 12:29, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::That was the way my mind was working. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:39, 18 December 2006 (CST)
I believe that the Sky Opening Up will be the explosion of the nuclear weaponry activating or destroying something which will then reveal the Eye. --[[User:Teal Thanatos|Teal Thanatos]]

== Boomer in the brig? ==

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:Besides, the least thing they need on ''Galactica'' right now would be Boomer to break out of the brig, throw on a uniform and have a "Guess the Sharon" contest. Aside from that, I expect that kind of trite plotwork I just mentioned from lesser sci-fi series, not this one.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Summary ==

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five ==

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. {{unsigned|Tylonius}}

:To ''Battlestar's'' credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

::Time may not be an issue. Remember the Colonial Scriptures are full of prophecies, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that the Temple of Five could've been constructed for something before it happened, for the purpose of making it happen in due time.

::The Five could do whatever releated them to the temple much like Roslin is directly related to finding the tomb Athena, even though she lived thousands of years after everything else was set.

::This is all speculation, of course, but oh well....--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:59, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:::The Final Five are directly connected to the Temple of Five: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2006/12/one_of_the_cent.html -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:16, 20 December 2006 (CST)

::::“Essentially the Temple of the Five is directly connected to the five Cylons we have not seen.” - RDM
::::I've been thinking about the ambiguous ''sins'' the [[Hybrid]] mentions, that appear to be in regards to the Five. My working theory is that the five priests who served "The One Who Cannot Be..." and the Five Cylon Models who served the Cylon God both committed the ''sin'' of Rebellion, and that both dieties they rebelled against are one and the same. I also (big leap now), think that Model One is among the Rebel Five. Being rebel ''Angels of God'' (as Virtual-Six refers to herself), that would make One the RDM-equivalent to TOS-Lucifer, now wouldn't it? Chief and first of the (from the cylon perspective) "fallen" angels (as opposed to speculation that One ''is'' the Cylon God) --[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 02:16, 23 December 2006 (CST)

== Human Nicknames ==
I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points).
Cropped text:
*This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
**It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]] and [[Simon]]. In ''[[The Passage]]'', D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".
Thanks. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:
*This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. [[Caprica-Six]]).
*Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of [[Cavil]]'s, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s and [[Simon]]'s numbers. In "[[Torn]]", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "[[The Passage]]" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.
:Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged".
I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new number though. We've heard plenty of statements like "We Threes think we can't take the risk.", ideal statements to introduce new numbers with. Of course these numbers aren't a big deal, but die-hard fans tend to like to know these details. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::True. Though the more detail the introduce, the more chances they have to get it wrong. Even with the few model numbers we have revealed RDM sometimes has [[Podcast:The_Passage#Act_1|difficulty keeping them straight]], confusing the Eight's (Sharons) with the Three's (D'annas). Either way, we'll be here, documenting. I sometimes wonder if we're (the die-hard detail documenters) aren't his worst nightmares (if we even bothers thinking about us). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:52, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::::I always thought it was a nice nod to buckaroo banzai where all the villains had the same first name. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 22:05, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::I believe it would make sense that there is a plan with rolling out the remaining agent numbers. For example, whether or not "One" is one of the missing Five has a great deal of bearing on the development of the cylon narrative, and so would be kept quiet until the episode revealing that fact. If He/She is one of the missing Five, but "Two" is not, then Two's identity ([[Cavil]], [[Leoben]], or [[Simon]]) also has a great deal of bearing on the narrative. Cavil has been shown using some leverage on Three. He's got my money for being Two. I think One is with the missing Five.--[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 22:58, 25 December 2006 (CST)

== Question on article ==

*When did [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] go over to the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons']] way of thinking? In this episode she clearly doesn't seem to think of herself as human anymore like she did in "[[Downloaded]]."
:I had assumed that by LDYB, II that the Cylons had gone over to Boomer and Caprica-Six's way of thinking, hence their (C-six and Boomer) sudden rise to power as well as the sudden Cylon cease-fire. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:24, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I think it's been established that somewhere along the way she realized that humans and cylons can't mix, and I believe she says something to that effect in Rapture. Where exactly this revelation came I'm not sure, or my memory is lacking, but she has had a lot of shit happen to her. On the latest podcast, Moore says they cut a lot of story on the basestar with Caprica, Hera and Boomer's surliness towards Tyrol. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 02:19, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Hera ==

I cannot believe that Adm. Adama has apparently no idea what happened to Hera. He was involved in this discussion in [[Downloaded]]. He should knew that Hera and her foster mother moved to [[New Caprica]]. I am very surprised that he became so angry after Roslin told him that she kept the child in her school. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 17:21, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:Adama and Roslin only agreed in "[[Downloaded]]" that Sharon cannot be allowesd raise the baby. Maybe he assumed/was told that Hera was killed by Cottle? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:34, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::That they concluded at the discussion that the child should be killed would fit with this episode events and Baltars look at the end of "Downloaded" when being chided by his internal six. However that option was mentioned onscreen and the entire tone of the conversation at that point makes it seem somewhat unlikely that this would been the final decision. Given that Baltar was never in on the adoption-plot (he apparently didn't know Hera was alive on New Caprica) and we now know Adama didn't know about it either the discussion outcome must have been either to kill the child or to postpone the decision (with Heras apparent death solving the problem). I'm quite willing to buy that Adama believed the child had died a natural death, given that complication in a hybrid between man and machine were to exspected. But I have troubles with Roslin doing it all behind Adamas back (why did she have to do that?) and Adama not making a decision whatever immediately (in Downloaded). [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:40, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Recent Summary Reorganization Problems ==

I'm normally OK about reorganization of a summary, but the recent one handled by SgtPayne creates more work and confusion. Links previously added are missing, conventions once there are missing, and the narrative flow of the summary is extremely confusing. Normally we can break up events by location (events on Galactica, basestars, planets) because they are mostly separate events that don't directly connect, but this episode has both Cylons and Colonial events occurring in response to each other and in "real-time." I am ''this close'' to rolling back the summary and adding edits made afterwards to restore both narrative flow and conventions, but I wanted comments from others first. As an admin I would just roll it back because of all the wikilinking and convention breakage, but it's more than that. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:36, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:This is one that I might suggest we do "Act" reporting summary. So the events are intertwined. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:56, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::I believe that's exactly what the summary contained before that infamous edit: a chronological report of the events in this episode. Since everything and everyone interacts with eachother and is at the same place, that would be a logical choice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:03, 20 December 2006 (CST) (I hate edit conflicts)
:I haven't checked it for style and links, but I agree that the summary should be chronological. Splitting up the locations is fine if they aren't related. But as you said, here they are heavily interwined and dependent on each other --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:'''Revert.''' It looked better the way it was. The new split makes for a very confusing read. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I have reverted the article and restored relevant edits made after that reorganization. One persistant edit that I keep changing involves the "shaft of light" in the Temple as Tyrol is inspecting the symbology in the Temple. That "shaft" is Tyrol's flashlight beam. While that direct light ''might'' do something unexpected as it approaches the central target-shaped symbol, it's not coming from some mystic source within the structure. I've clarified this in the article. Contributors are always free to edit it, but its fairly clear, so analysis should be used to interpret what it might do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:48, 20 December 2006 (CST)

In light of the recent reversion, I should drop my two cents in regarding the "reorganization". When I first read the article, I felt that it was too "narrative" rather than "summary", which is what the section suggests. The consolidation was an attempt to make the information as concise as possible. I also attempted to keep as many reference links as necessary. In regards to the location split, this was done in line with previous articles, which had definitive locations. My apologies if it confused readers, but it should be said that summaries are just that, and should not be play-by-play accounts of the episode. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 12:18, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:The location split you introduced is good practice when there are multiple storylines that do not interfere with eachother. A nice example of that is "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". In most episodes this is the case (end s1-begin s2 even had 3 or 4 separate storylines), but in this particular episode the three locations affect eachother so greatly that the split you introduced makes for extemely confusing reading: a bullet point in the basestar story references events told in the Galactica part, and viceverse. (Let's not even start about the Algae Planet part). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:45, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::You bring up a good point. In trying to put it together, there were some areas where I wasn't sure where to put it. On the whole, I was looking to clean it up a bit. Trying to read it line-for-line blurs out after a while... --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 14:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::I've broken up the summary into acts. It seems to solve both problems. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:24, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::aye. nice job. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:34, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I concur. It definitely cleans up the look of the page. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 22:55, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Missile Tubes==
Where exactly are they and shouldnt that be an article in "Galactica Areas" Snorkel378

:They are located on the dorsal side of the ship, slightly forward of the four guns ahead of the Colonial seal, and sit in two rows of six. And sure, why not create an article in that section? -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 19:12, 29 December 2006 (CST)

== More Nested Analysis ==
*The [[tylium]] planned for the mines could only come from their single Raptor. This supports the [[Substances in the Re-imagined Series#The Tylium Question|high energy yield of the fuel]] that, at the same time, would not sacrifice the Raptor's flight ability.
**It's also possible that the tylium used was fuel stored at the camp to power its generators and/or refuel the Raptors and other ships involved in the harvest.
Please resolve these into either one or two single-level bullets, then re-add to the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:56, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:Done. I also updated the nuke count in this section. Admiral Adama orders launch tubes four through ten loaded, which means he's prepared seven nuclear warheads, not six. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 09:05, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::Nicely done. Thanks! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:51, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Major Point:
Note that Hera is the wife of Roman God Jupiter, the derivative of the Greek Zeus. {{unsigned|PhoenixFlight}}
:Yes, Hera's counterpart in the Roman pantheon is Juno. The association is noted over many episodes to date. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:22, 6 January 2007 (CST)

== Playing with the date? ==

In Kobol's Last Gleaming, they stated the ruins on Kobol were 2000 years old, "around the time of the exodus of the 13 tribes". When they found the beacon at the Lion's Head Nebula, they said it was 3000 years old, and now they're saying the Temple of Five is at least 4000 years old. Each time they give a new date a thousand years earlier, it seems to still coincide with the exodus date of the thirteenth tribe.

Am I the only one noticing this inconsistancy?

: My memory may be off, but I was under the impression that the 13th tribe left Kobol long before the other twelve. So... maybe the 13th tribe left 4k years ago, and the rest left 2k years later. Fanwankery? Spotty memory on my part? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:08, 25 December 2006 (CST)

::Both, sort of. The date in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" refers to all thirteen tribes collectively. In "A Measure of Salvation" and "The Eye of Jupiter", they refer to the thirteenth tribe alone.
::'''Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I'''
:::Roslin: How old are the ruins?
:::Billy: We won't know for sure until they send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years.
:::Elosha: That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol
::'''A Measure of Salvation'''
:::Adama: According to Cottle, the virus was an exact match to one reported over 3,000 years ago. Right around the time that the Thirteenth Colony left Kobol.
::'''The Eye of Jupiter'''
:::Tyrol: Our initial radiocarbon dating suggests that the temple's at least 4,000 years old, which lines up with the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe.
::--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:16, 26 December 2006 (CST)

:::Here's a thought. What if this isn't an accident? We've speculated already that humanity might have emigrated from Earth to Kobol before the thirteenth tribe returned. If the further away from Kobol we get, the older the artifacts we find, what does that tell us? That the thirteenth tribe was traveling not from Kobol to Earth, but from Earth to Kobol. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 06:03, 28 December 2006 (CST)

::::Well, it may not be an accident, but the Colonials seem to think that the 13th tribe left Kobol for Earth. So why, upon finding that the artifacts get older as they journey further from Kobol/closer to Earth, would they conclude that the dating analysis confirms their scriptures? Put another way, if they dates say the tribe went from Earth to Kobol, but the scriptures say they went from Kobol to Earth, why aren't the Colonials confused? It's an interesting idea, nonetheless. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:29, 31 December 2006 (CST)

:::::Okay, it could also be that we're giving the Colonials too much credit in their dating. Elosha is a priest. Maybe her date of 2,000 is based on scripture, not fact. Also, the date of 4,000 could just mean that it predates the time that they knew the other 12 colonies left Kobol, thus it had to be built by the 13th tribe. The 13th tribe may have had outposts all throughout the galaxy while still calling Kobol home. Furthermore, since there are apparently 21,000 years of recorded history, maybe to the Colonials a few thousand years of inaccuracy in dating don't really make a difference. You could compare it to modern day humans who confuse the 15th and 16th centuries. Of course, now I'm fully in the territory of fanwanking/making up excuses. The seven months/nine months disparity with regard to the Colonial election was never even acknowledged, so there is a good possibility these inconsistent dates are just a product of sloppiness. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:40, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Nut we Don't know how long it took to get everyone from earth off of kobol because it would take awhile to get huge civilizations away from a planet.Snorkel378

== Dichotomy of Signs to Earth==

I find it rather interesting that the first real sign to Earth that they found was a satellite/probe (first found by the Cylons). This would represent the high tech sign-post to Earth. The second sign to Earth is this hidden "Temple of Five" which is plainly a spiritual sign. Anyone else thing this is very interesting? I wonder what was on the satellite. Too bad RDM didn't allow them to examine it. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 21:57, 26 December 2006 (CST)

==The G-4==
Hey how come in the summary it doesnt mention the G-4 about to go off right by Tyrol? Snorkel378

:*Unaware how events are escalating around and above him, Chief Tyrol illuminates the carved writings of the Temple with his flashlight and reads the inscriptions, trying to locate the actual resting place of the Eye. At one point, his flashlight's beam moves close to the target-shaped symbol in the center of the central spire.
:How about we make that:
:*Having strapped explosives to the central spire of the temple, Chief Tyrol...
:--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:17, 31 December 2006 (CST)

No I mean the activation light on 1 of the explosives is blinking which means it is going to detonate.The article does not mention that.
Snorkel378
:There is nothing to suggest that the blinking lights don't simply mean that it is armed rather than about to explode. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])

Yes but the music can easily tell u what is happening and it has a danger coming sound to it-Snorkel378
:Thats fanwanking. We have seen nothing to suggest that the explosives are about to detonate. All we know is that the explosives are armed and the flashing light could simply be to note that fact. You may very well be right but so far there has been no aired information to say that you are and until the next episode airs we wont know. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)

You are right I geuss im some crazy kid huh :) Snorkel378

:The explosives set by Tyrol and Anders in Occupation have a light that blinks, but the explosives only go off when the detonator is activated. The light is in no way indicative of and impending explosion -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 15:51, 12 January 2007 (CST)

== Last name in the credits ==

Okay, after a month, I think I finally found the last remaining actor/character in the closing credits. Thanks to the inane sense of necessity in scrunching the credits (so they can apparently advertise the same things they do 23 times a day in normal commerical airtime) I was unable to read the last name, getting the first two through squinting and deduction. I skimmed one last time and believe I found the last, unreadable name. According to
[http://www.thelogbook.com/logbook/series/battlestar-galactica-new/newgalactica-season-3/page/2/ this site] it's [[Tygh Runyan]] as Pvt. [[Byers]]. I looked at the guy at IMDb and although he's not given the credit (no surprise), he ''can'' be spotted in the episode. Even [http://tv.yahoo.com/battlestar-galactica/show/the-eye-of-jupiter-part-1/episode/111786/castcrew Tv.Yahoo], a considerably more reliable source, has him listed (sans character name). Any disagreement in adding him? I'm sure someone here has clear visual access to the credit, but I'm going through a consensus since it hasn't been added by said "someone". --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 00:04, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:Do you have a screenshot for us to look at? Might be best to wait for it to air in HD then it will be much clearer. Alternatively ask on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques]] page. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:27, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:: TYoJ Will be airing in HD over here in a few weeks, not sure about America though. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 03:32, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:::I have the iTunes copy of this: I've confirmed the same names and spelling. Do we know where he is (on the planet?). That would be enough to make a stub. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:23, 16 January 2007 (CST)
I've only spotted him in one scene. It's at the start of Act 4 when Anders is dividing them up into two teams. He is among those Sam is talking to, wearing a cap and at one point, he's given an entire frame (with Anders' shoulder in the foreground). He appears mainly in a shot where he is at the very left, with Lee, Barolay, and Anders to his right. I hope that paints a good enough picture since I'm unable to get a screencap. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 13:59, 16 January 2007 (CST)

== Music ==

Could some1 tell me what was that ''song'' at the end of the episode. There were no lyrics, just music, and it was a really good choice, it shows nicely how the tension grows at the end. Plz if u know what song it is write it... TNX ;) {{unsigned|DedMed}}

:http://bearmccreary.com/
:Check out the blog for example, though it doesn't refer to that particular piece. It's no particular song, but like nearly all of the music on BSG an original composition. You can find similar pieces on the soundtracks for the first two seasons and it might even have been reused from an earlier episode --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:01, 28 January 2007 (CST)

User talk:DuMan

2007-06-30T22:15:55Z

DuMan: /* Letter to Critics of the Technological Singularity Article */

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==
Welcome to the Wiki, DuMan. Tell us about yourself on [[User:DuMan|your user page]]. We have a [[Template:User Data|template]] that lets you put some information about yourself in a nice-looking box.

Battlestar Wiki is an encyclopedia on '''officially-licensed stories, aired episodes, and other products of the ''Battlestar'' universes.''' Make sure that your contributions fit [[Battlestar Wiki:What is Battlestar Wiki|Battlestar Wiki's purpose]], avoiding [[BW:NOT|what we aren't]].

Our [[BW:SAC|editing standards and conventions policies]] may differ from other wikis, especially in verb tense and voice, capitalization and the like. '''Please read this policy.''' We have [[BW:TUT|an editing tutorial]] and [[BW:MARK|wiki markup codes]] to help you.

Our policies on [[w:Original research|original research]] differ from places such as Wikipedia. We allow [[BW:CJ#Derived Content|some research based on aired episode content]], but don't allow [[BW:FANW|speculation that isn't supported from episode events]].

Battlestar Wiki's [[Battlestar Wiki:Project List|many projects]] help improve our content. Are you an [[Original Series]] fan? Help out in the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|Original Series Article Project]]. [[Battlestar Wiki:Translation Project|Non-English versions of Battlestar Wiki]] also need contributors, and helpers for our [[BW:POD|podcast transcriptions]] are also welcome. New projects should be brought to our [[BW:TANK|Think Tank]], where we hash out large-scale ideas before implementing them.

Any questions about an article can be entered on the article's talk page. General questions about the wiki can be brought to [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|the Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|the administrators' noticeboard]]. To sign your posts on any talk page, just enter four tildes (~~~~)!

We look forward to your contributions to the community!
--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:59, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

== Recent Rollback ==

Welcome to the wiki, DuMan. I had to revert your contributions to the article, [[God (RDM)]]. There are no aired events in the [[Re-imagined Series]] that support your information in any way I can recall. Battlestar Wiki does allow some original research, but unsourced information that hasn't any supported basis in an aired episode is "[[BW:FANW|fanwanking]]". Don't let this discourage you from making more edits, but be sure to read our policies and guidelines on [[BW:SAC|editing]] and [[BW:CJ|official sources]] before you continue. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:43, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

== Letter to Critics of the Technological Singularity Article ==

I'd like to thank you personally, Spencerian and Serenity, for the feedback and criticism you have given me so far. While I am coming up with ideas and arguments to write the article, I do have concerns about how and what to source as well as whether my argument is bordering on speculation or "fanwanking."

About the sources, how do I source something from the show? Would the title of the episode be sufficient, or would you need more? Do I need to work off of direct quotes from the characters or could a use general plot points? When I use general plot points, could a just cite them with the episode's name that they appeared in, or must I provide more information, such as even quoting a nBSG wiki article?

While you said not to worry about it, Cyrannus (system) article does provide some good, respectable exterior links for its sources, while I was relying on the wiki's (as in Wikipedia's) article on technological singularity. How appropriate is it to cite something from Wikipedia? If I need more respectable sources, could I use only online sources and which online sources (generally) would be considered respectable?

As for the article, my plans are as follows. Proving how the topic of a technological singularity branches off of AI should be easy, but proving how the cylons could be controlled by a singularity should be difficult. The only way I know how is to cite events in the show that are easier to explain supernaturally rather than scientifically. My argument primarily works by pointing out events in the show that are unlikely to occur by coincidence (as the would in the real world) and that all of these events can further be proven as none coincidental as they all appear to have a cylon intention behind them.

This is where I’m worried about fanwanking, as it is speculation for something that is not explained in the show and appears to be like the case examples that have been provided on the nBSG wiki’s fanwanking article. Whether you think I should continue from here or not is up to you, but this vein of argument is my only source of evidence and if you consider it weak or fanwanking your opinion should put my efforts to rest.

If you are still interested or think that I am not fanwinking, here is some evidence from the show that I could think of off the bat.

*In episode “33,” there is the unusual timing between Balter agreeing to Six to support the cylons and President Roslin's command to destroy the Olympic carrier.

*The events of “The Hand of God” where Balter is able to pick out the exact weakness in the cylon tylium factory without having any knowledge of the structure of the base. He even confesses to Six that he had no idea what he was doing at the time, but Six reassures him that he was doing "god's will," thus leaving him to state at the end of the episode "I am an instrument of God."

*The chance encounter in the Miniseries that occurred when Balter happened to be alive with the same group of people that arrived at Boomer's crash site, and the unlikely chance that someone at the site (the old lady) allowed him to be noticed, leading him to be directly brought on Galactica.

*In “Six Degrees of Separation,” there is the coincidence that occurs when Baltar is almost first convicted. At the beginning of the episode Balter displays his atheism by blowing off Six's belief in god, to which Goodwin soon appears on board Galactica (in the flesh) and begins showing physical evidence of Baltar's possible guilt. The rest of the episode leaves Balter alone (from the populace of the fleet AND the cylon Six) until the end where he prays to the cylon god, at which point Six returns to his side and the evidence is proved to be fake.

*In the season 1 finally where Six encourages Baltar to get off of Galactica, warning him of unknown impending events that could put him in danger, thus showing there must have been some entity being aware that Boomer was about to become activated.

All of the above points could either be explained through pure coincidence, supernatural means, or the presence of a highly advanced computer or consciousness that can predict events and human interactions to an incredible degree. As each event appears to have an intention behind it that favors the cylons, these events could not solely be explained by coincidence, thus eliminating the first option. Assuming the show strives to portray realism, only the latter option remains.

Thank you for reading and withstanding my bad writing. I await your criticisms.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 20:28, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
:I'm not familiar with all the background of this, but I will go ahead and weigh in on some of the citation questions, as I am comfortable at least answering that. Regarding citing onscreen evidence, a show title is sufficient. Just throw a parenthetical link to the episode in parenthesis at the end of the sentence/paragraph (remember the period goes AFTER the outer quotation mark, that's just the way we roll around here). Bonus points if you take the time to use [[:Template:Cite episode]]. That template utilizes the "references" section, so it looks really snazzy, and it allows you to specify down to the minute if you want (which is great if you can nail it down). Quotes aren't required (you can use plot points), but be careful to drive off of what is concretely seen.

:As [[BW:CITE]] points out, Wikipedia is NOT generally a good source. This is not a slight to Wikipedia, just that it really doesn't even claim to be a source itself. It (like us) should merely be a collection of citations to other credible sources, so ideally you'd point to the parent source. As for online sources to be considered credible... there's not a hidden "list", by any means, other than the one provided on the BW:CITE page. Generally real world articles aren't heavily pointed to as Battlestar Wiki is more dedicated to documenting what goes on in and around the show more than how the real world stuff works. Though I see the dilemma of needing to justify in-universe theories with real world concepts, and in that case citing credible sources to back your theory would be excellent.

:Both Spencerian and Serenity are really good contacts to develop the type of article you are describing. The number of citations you're able to quickly produce is very encouraging and points towards a good probability of success. (Unfounded speculation is the enemy, thought-provoking and well-cited analysis is something to aspire to.)

:I'll butt out now, but if you have any other questions of me (or any of the other sysops), feel free to ask. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 21:53, 24 June 2007 (CDT)

:Simply saying something like: "Baltar conveniently guesses the weak point in the Cylon tylium factory ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])" should be good enough. Citing Wikipedia is no problem as long as the Wikipedia article in question provides good cites. You can use [[Template:Ext-wikipedia]] or [[Template:Ext-wikipedia-name]] to link to a Wikipedia article in the External links section of a page (currently, 52 articles do this). If you have any questions about using these templates, [[User talk:Catrope|ask me]]. To link to a Wikipedia article in the body of an article, you can use <code><nowiki>[[w:Article|Link text]]</nowiki></code>, which will show up as [[w:Article|Link text]].
:Steelviper is right that Spencerian and Serenity are the best contacts to help you in writing the actual article, as they are the ones who write most of the content around here. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 08:53, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
::Lots of people write content around here, but Spencerian and Serenity are also extremely familiar with the [[BW:SAC|S's and C's]], and Spencerian has a great deal of experience creating new articles as well as developing analysis-type articles. There's FAR too much content in the Battlestar Galactica universe (especially when you consider the 1980 and TOS content) to saddle the load just on one person (or a few people). Not that it hasn't been tried, but the results usually aren't that stellar. The best one-person show I can think of off the top of my head is the [http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton/concord.html BG Concordance], which we are still [[Battlestar_Wiki:Original_Series_Article_Development_Project|catching up to]] in terms of having articles that correspond to all its entries. And that's for a show with ONE season. I didn't want in any way to minimize how crucial Spencerian and Serenity are to the wiki, but I did want to emphasize how important it is for the long term success of the wiki to utilize (and cultivate) a multitude of contributors. Speaking of which, I'll try to get some TOS work knocked out today after I get some errands knocked out. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:17, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

::I wouldn't consider myself an expert on developing articles, since I haven't really created many and one of two of them I cobbled together from other articles. But it's probably right that I can be very nitpicky when it comes to enforcing standards, and I do a lot of cleanup.
::Anyways, the way you wrote it is fine. It doesn't need to be too elaborate. Any details can usually be found in the episode article you link to. But keep in mind that the standard tense here is present tense, except for event prior to the Miniseries. And for episode titles we put the commas outside the quotation marks, as those aren't real sentences. That's all detailed in [[BW:SAC]]. But noone expects that you get every little style thing right at the beginning, as others can clean up stuff.
::As for the content. I'm not sure. It's certainly enough to conclude that ''something'' else might be at play. Whether that something is a big artificial intelligence is another thing. I'll see what others like Spence or Joe think about this. They have the strictest standard regarding derived content. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:55, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks everybody for the advice on sourcing and how to do it wiki style, but the only criticism I got on my idea for the god article was from Serenity. Feel free to jump in and argue against me, I am currently pumping up and clarifying my argument with more points. I would like to put more thought into writing the article, but I'd rather not until I know it can't be considered fanwanking and can be published on the god article. But hey, knowing my luck and the upcoming final season, god will be revealed as a supernatural being, or worse a figment of the cylon's imagination :(.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 17:15, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

== Beyond the Red Line ==

Good theory, I hadn't thought of that. But of course it is possible to jump to certain systems and charter them at regular intervals, providing a semi-up-to-date star chart which is more up-to-date than a telescope-generated one. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:09, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
:Guess that's why they are always sending out those Raptors. They're not just scouting, but getting those star charts that Galactica dosn't need to generate at the moment. But still just to store all that data has to be a pain.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 17:04, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

User talk:DuMan

2007-06-30T22:04:32Z

DuMan: /* Beyond the Red Line */

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==
Welcome to the Wiki, DuMan. Tell us about yourself on [[User:DuMan|your user page]]. We have a [[Template:User Data|template]] that lets you put some information about yourself in a nice-looking box.

Battlestar Wiki is an encyclopedia on '''officially-licensed stories, aired episodes, and other products of the ''Battlestar'' universes.''' Make sure that your contributions fit [[Battlestar Wiki:What is Battlestar Wiki|Battlestar Wiki's purpose]], avoiding [[BW:NOT|what we aren't]].

Our [[BW:SAC|editing standards and conventions policies]] may differ from other wikis, especially in verb tense and voice, capitalization and the like. '''Please read this policy.''' We have [[BW:TUT|an editing tutorial]] and [[BW:MARK|wiki markup codes]] to help you.

Our policies on [[w:Original research|original research]] differ from places such as Wikipedia. We allow [[BW:CJ#Derived Content|some research based on aired episode content]], but don't allow [[BW:FANW|speculation that isn't supported from episode events]].

Battlestar Wiki's [[Battlestar Wiki:Project List|many projects]] help improve our content. Are you an [[Original Series]] fan? Help out in the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|Original Series Article Project]]. [[Battlestar Wiki:Translation Project|Non-English versions of Battlestar Wiki]] also need contributors, and helpers for our [[BW:POD|podcast transcriptions]] are also welcome. New projects should be brought to our [[BW:TANK|Think Tank]], where we hash out large-scale ideas before implementing them.

Any questions about an article can be entered on the article's talk page. General questions about the wiki can be brought to [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|the Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|the administrators' noticeboard]]. To sign your posts on any talk page, just enter four tildes (~~~~)!

We look forward to your contributions to the community!
--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:59, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

== Recent Rollback ==

Welcome to the wiki, DuMan. I had to revert your contributions to the article, [[God (RDM)]]. There are no aired events in the [[Re-imagined Series]] that support your information in any way I can recall. Battlestar Wiki does allow some original research, but unsourced information that hasn't any supported basis in an aired episode is "[[BW:FANW|fanwanking]]". Don't let this discourage you from making more edits, but be sure to read our policies and guidelines on [[BW:SAC|editing]] and [[BW:CJ|official sources]] before you continue. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:43, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

== Letter to Critics of the Technological Singularity Article ==

I'd like to thank you personally, Spencerian and Serenity, for the feedback and criticism you have given me so far. While I am coming up with ideas and arguments to write the article, I do have concerns about how and what to source as well as whether my argument is bordering on speculation or "fanwanking."

About the sources, how do I source something from the show? Would the title of the episode be sufficient, or would you need more? Do I need to work off of direct quotes from the characters or could a use general plot points? When I use general plot points, could a just cite them with the episode's name that they appeared in, or must I provide more information, such as even quoting a nBSG wiki article?

While you said not to worry about it, Cyrannus (system) article does provide some good, respectable exterior links for its sources, while I was relying on the wiki's (as in Wikipedia's) article on technological singularity. How appropriate is it to cite something from Wikipedia? If I need more respectable sources, could I use only online sources and which online sources (generally) would be considered respectable?

As for the article, my plans are as follows. Proving how the topic of a technological singularity branches off of AI should be easy, but proving how the cylons could be controlled by a singularity should be difficult. The only way I know how is to cite events in the show that are easier to explain supernaturally rather than scientifically. My argument primarily works by pointing out events in the show that are unlikely to occur by coincidence (as the would in the real world) and that all of these events can further be proven as none coincidental as they all appear to have a cylon intention behind them.

This is where I’m worried about fanwanking, as it is speculation for something that is not explained in the show and appears to be like the case examples that have been provided on the nBSG wiki’s fanwanking article. Whether you think I should continue from here or not is up to you, but this vein of argument is my only source of evidence and if you consider it weak or fanwanking your opinion should put my efforts to rest.

If you are still interested or think that I am not fanwinking, here is some evidence from the show that I could think of off the bat.

*In episode “33,” there is the unusual timing between Balter agreeing to Six to support the cylons and President Roslin's command to destroy the Olympic carrier.

*The events of “The Hand of God” where Balter is able to pick out the exact weakness in the cylon tylium factory without having any knowledge of the structure of the base. He even confesses to Six that he had no idea what he was doing at the time, but Six reassures him that he was doing "god's will," thus leaving him to state at the end of the episode "I am an instrument of God."

*The chance encounter in the Miniseries that occurred when Balter happened to be alive with the same group of people that arrived at Boomer's crash site, and the unlikely chance that someone at the site (the old lady) allowed him to be noticed, leading him to be directly brought on Galactica.

*In “Six Degrees of Separation,” there is the coincidence that occurs when Baltar is almost first convicted. At the beginning of the episode Balter displays his atheism by blowing off Six's belief in god, to which Goodwin soon appears on board Galactica (in the flesh) and begins showing physical evidence of Baltar's possible guilt. The rest of the episode leaves Balter alone (from the populace of the fleet AND the cylon Six) until the end where he prays to the cylon god, at which point Six returns to his side and the evidence is proved to be fake.

*In the season 1 finally where Six encourages Baltar to get off of Galactica, warning him of unknown impending events that could put him in danger, thus showing there must have been some entity being aware that Boomer was about to become activated.

All of the above points could either be explained through pure coincidence, supernatural means, or the presence of a highly advanced computer or consciousness that can predict events and human interactions to an incredible degree. As each event appears to have an intention behind it that favors the cylons, these events could not solely be explained by coincidence, thus eliminating the first option. Assuming the show strives to portray realism, only the latter option remains.

Thank you for reading and withstanding my bad writing. I await your criticisms.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 20:28, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
:I'm not familiar with all the background of this, but I will go ahead and weigh in on some of the citation questions, as I am comfortable at least answering that. Regarding citing onscreen evidence, a show title is sufficient. Just throw a parenthetical link to the episode in parenthesis at the end of the sentence/paragraph (remember the period goes AFTER the outer quotation mark, that's just the way we roll around here). Bonus points if you take the time to use [[:Template:Cite episode]]. That template utilizes the "references" section, so it looks really snazzy, and it allows you to specify down to the minute if you want (which is great if you can nail it down). Quotes aren't required (you can use plot points), but be careful to drive off of what is concretely seen.

:As [[BW:CITE]] points out, Wikipedia is NOT generally a good source. This is not a slight to Wikipedia, just that it really doesn't even claim to be a source itself. It (like us) should merely be a collection of citations to other credible sources, so ideally you'd point to the parent source. As for online sources to be considered credible... there's not a hidden "list", by any means, other than the one provided on the BW:CITE page. Generally real world articles aren't heavily pointed to as Battlestar Wiki is more dedicated to documenting what goes on in and around the show more than how the real world stuff works. Though I see the dilemma of needing to justify in-universe theories with real world concepts, and in that case citing credible sources to back your theory would be excellent.

:Both Spencerian and Serenity are really good contacts to develop the type of article you are describing. The number of citations you're able to quickly produce is very encouraging and points towards a good probability of success. (Unfounded speculation is the enemy, thought-provoking and well-cited analysis is something to aspire to.)

:I'll butt out now, but if you have any other questions of me (or any of the other sysops), feel free to ask. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 21:53, 24 June 2007 (CDT)

:Simply saying something like: "Baltar conveniently guesses the weak point in the Cylon tylium factory ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])" should be good enough. Citing Wikipedia is no problem as long as the Wikipedia article in question provides good cites. You can use [[Template:Ext-wikipedia]] or [[Template:Ext-wikipedia-name]] to link to a Wikipedia article in the External links section of a page (currently, 52 articles do this). If you have any questions about using these templates, [[User talk:Catrope|ask me]]. To link to a Wikipedia article in the body of an article, you can use <code><nowiki>[[w:Article|Link text]]</nowiki></code>, which will show up as [[w:Article|Link text]].
:Steelviper is right that Spencerian and Serenity are the best contacts to help you in writing the actual article, as they are the ones who write most of the content around here. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 08:53, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
::Lots of people write content around here, but Spencerian and Serenity are also extremely familiar with the [[BW:SAC|S's and C's]], and Spencerian has a great deal of experience creating new articles as well as developing analysis-type articles. There's FAR too much content in the Battlestar Galactica universe (especially when you consider the 1980 and TOS content) to saddle the load just on one person (or a few people). Not that it hasn't been tried, but the results usually aren't that stellar. The best one-person show I can think of off the top of my head is the [http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton/concord.html BG Concordance], which we are still [[Battlestar_Wiki:Original_Series_Article_Development_Project|catching up to]] in terms of having articles that correspond to all its entries. And that's for a show with ONE season. I didn't want in any way to minimize how crucial Spencerian and Serenity are to the wiki, but I did want to emphasize how important it is for the long term success of the wiki to utilize (and cultivate) a multitude of contributors. Speaking of which, I'll try to get some TOS work knocked out today after I get some errands knocked out. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:17, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

::I wouldn't consider myself an expert on developing articles, since I haven't really created many and one of two of them I cobbled together from other articles. But it's probably right that I can be very nitpicky when it comes to enforcing standards, and I do a lot of cleanup.
::Anyways, the way you wrote it is fine. It doesn't need to be too elaborate. Any details can usually be found in the episode article you link to. But keep in mind that the standard tense here is present tense, except for event prior to the Miniseries. And for episode titles we put the commas outside the quotation marks, as those aren't real sentences. That's all detailed in [[BW:SAC]]. But noone expects that you get every little style thing right at the beginning, as others can clean up stuff.
::As for the content. I'm not sure. It's certainly enough to conclude that ''something'' else might be at play. Whether that something is a big artificial intelligence is another thing. I'll see what others like Spence or Joe think about this. They have the strictest standard regarding derived content. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:55, 25 June 2007 (CDT)

== Beyond the Red Line ==

Good theory, I hadn't thought of that. But of course it is possible to jump to certain systems and charter them at regular intervals, providing a semi-up-to-date star chart which is more up-to-date than a telescope-generated one. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:09, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
:Guess that's why they are always sending out those Raptors. They're not just scouting, but getting those star charts that Galactica dosn't need to generate at the moment. But still just to store all that data has to be a pain.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 17:04, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

User:DuMan

2007-06-30T22:00:26Z

DuMan:

=Me=
Fan of the show and trying not to fanwank. Hopes to one day learn how to make paragraphs. Might add more content here latter.

=Fun Fanwanking Ideas=
Expect poor grammar and bad spelling, this is my brain storming section.

==Beyond the Red Line==
Another possiblity for extreme computational needs for FTL drives is because the great variation that can occur in star coordinates when moving extreme distances faster than the speed of light. A very common note in astronomy is that when we look up at the sky, we don't see the sky as it is now but as it was, and the farther something is the more we get a glimps at the past, so far about to 12.5 billion years. Taking this into consideration when FTLing, one would be litterally moving through time (in a sense); at one point they see a birth of a star and when they FTL closer to it, they immedatily see its death. The consequence of this is that when one would FTL, the previous star charts that they used to navigate would not be the same as the new ones they could draw up from their new coordinates. With much larger jumps, their star charts would become progressively more useless as the star systems around them progressively change and move.

In order to keep track of their position (assuming the Colonials soley rely on star charts for positioning) they would then have to run astronomical simulations of how the stars would look like at their new location, predicting how the stars will change in the future for where they are going and how the stars looked in the past from where they came. Unlike in early navigation where sailors could depend on the stars as fixed points, any race that FTLs would have no such luxery. In a sense space travel would be more like traveling through a cave, where you would contantly keep track of the star charts from where you came and constantly generate new ones for where you are going.

Considering how many stars are in a patch of sky and how many position points it could possibly occupy (amongst other things), a really good computer would be needed for FTLing.

See [[Navigation in the Re-imagined Series|Navigation in the Re-imagined Series]] and the [[Red Line|Red Line]]

--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 16:58, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

=Favorite Links=
[[God|God (RDM)]]

[[Gravity in the Re-imagined Series|artificial gravity]]

[[Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series|Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series]]

[[Lymphocytic encephalitis|Lymphocytic encephalitis]]

User:DuMan

2007-06-30T21:58:18Z

DuMan:

=Me=
Fan of the show and trying not to fanwank. Hopes to one day learn how to make paragraphs. Might add more content here latter.

=Fun Fanwanking Ideas=
Expect poor grammar and bad spelling, this is my brain storming section.

==Beyond the Red Line==
Another possiblity for extreme computational needs for FTL drives is because the great variation that can occur in star coordinates when moving extreme distances faster than the speed of light. A very common note in astronomy is that when we look up at the sky, we don't see the sky as it is now but as it was, and the farther something is the more we get a glimps at the past, so far about to 12.5 billion years. Taking this into consideration when FTLing, one would be litterally moving through time (in a sense); at one point they see a birth of a star and when they FTL closer to it, they immedatily see its death. The consequence of this is that when one would FTL, the previous star charts that they used to navigate would not be the same as the new ones they could draw up from their new coordinates. With much larger jumps, their star charts would become progressively more useless as the star systems around them progressively change and move.

In order to keep track of their position (assuming the Colonials soley rely on star charts for positioning) they would then have to run astronomical simulations of how the stars would look like at their new location, predicting how the stars will change in the future for where they are going and how the stars looked in the past from where they came. Unlike in early navigation where sailors could depend on the stars as fixed points, any race that FTLs would have no such luxery. In a sense space travel would be more like traveling through a cave, where you would contantly keep track of the star charts from where you came and constantly generate new ones for where you are going.

Considering how many stars are in a patch of sky and how many position points it could possibly occupy (amongst other things), a really good computer would be needed for FTLing.

See [[Navigation in the Re-imagined Series|Navigation in the Re-imagined Series]] and the [[Red Line|Red Line]]

--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 16:58, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

=Other Notes=
[[Gravity in the Re-imagined Series|artificial gravity]]

[[Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series|Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series]]

[[Lymphocytic encephalitis|Lymphocytic encephalitis]]

Talk:Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2007-06-30T21:51:49Z

DuMan: /* Cinematography */

This article comprises the bulk of the original FTL article and elements from a past larger article version of [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]], broken out for later expansion and page size considerations. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:14, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

== capitalization of "jump" ==

Why is the word "jump" capitalized so often? Both as noun and verb. I could barely understand capitalizing the noun, and even then it's not a proper noun. But writing "Jump" as verb doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It boggles my mind and just looks silly. Maybe it's just me and I'm overreacting (because I find it annoying), but I correct it wherever I see it. 
The only reason I can think of is one or two references in the BSG Season 1 Companion where it is written with a capital letter. But I consider that a typo and not some kind of official standard. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:06, 30 October 2006 (CST)

:I am inclined to agree with you, and I also normally correct, erm change, it when I see it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 17:16, 30 October 2006 (CST)

::I have tended to capitalize it in the psat, but now if I do, it's only as part of the phrase, "FTL Jump." However, it may be a point of emphasis that is not necessary, although the term may not be easily distinctive without proper context when describing the event (A lot of people have taken up my "bad" habits.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:44, 30 October 2006 (CST)

:The capitalization bugs me as well. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:14, 30 October 2006 (CST)

I've rediscovered why I've done this practice: The show captions ''consistently'' capitalize "Jump" when speaking of such in FTL. It makes sense in context for them to differentiate it as it would here. Using lowercase implies a diminutive or generic use, for which this does not apply. It would be best here to use "FTL Jump" and not "Jump" except in dialogue accounts, but I believe we should avoid genericizing this. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:50, 9 November 2006 (CST)

:Continuing the discussion from the Hybrid page. I don't see the need to distinguish its uses. It's not like we are talking of characters jumping around a lot. "FTL Jump" might be ok though, even if it still looks weird to me, but "Jump" alone not so much IMHO. So as you said, if people insist on capitalizing it, they should better add the "FTL" . Though I still think it's pointless --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:03, 17 November 2006 (CST)

== My recent edit ==
I've removed a large amount of content. Before you revert me I'd like to point out that extensive discussion of wormholes is pointless as no allusion to them is made in the show and I see no reason to make that assumption. Additionally the physics references are a bit clumsy in those sections. On arrival all ships are brought to an arbitray frame of reference (which leads to the removal of the second footnote as it's clearly wrong). Faster than light is no misnomer in terms of physical displacement per unit time (velocity) as opposed to distance travelled per unit time (speed), the latter being compleltely unimportant in the context. "Electromagnetic and centripetal energies" is incorrect as neither term refers to any energy.

I notice in the history the use of "centrifugal" was corrected to "centripetal", stating "centrifugal is a misnomer - centripetal is the correct term". To this person I suggest you look up the definitions of the words centrifugal, centripetal and misnomer. {{unsigned|Niles}}

:Niles, welcome. As the series generally doesn't get into technobabble and tries to base its technology on theory, rather than fantasy or pseudoscience such as "warp drive," I don't see the justification of the edit. Using wormhole theory (as our scientists tell it) to give a ''possible, logical explanation'' of the FTL principles of the show is acceptable speculation per the wiki's [[BW:CJ|citation policy]], under "derived content." The use of FTL in the show supports the wormhole principle in many, many episodes, with few continuity errors. I appreciate your commentary, but rather than deletion of the central premise, it would be better to add dissenting information that supports your view. I will restore the article's original content based on this, but I encourage you to add your dissent in an encyclopedic way, with its supporting sources. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:36, 17 November 2006 (CST)

:: Huh, what? Warp drive is neither fantasy, nor pseudoscience. It's a fully realized scientific theory, right down to the math involved. It's existed since 1995. In fact, it's more real that folding space. -- [[User:3DMaster|3DMaster]] 06:53, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

::''''As the series generally doesn't get into technobabble and tries to base its technology on theory, rather than fantasy or pseudoscience such as "warp drive," I don't see the justification of the edit.'''''
The show doesn't "base" its technology on anything, theory or otherwise; it just is and that's precisely the justification for the edit. A possible explanation? Why not include all of them, even the technobabble ones? While the wormhole concept is a possible explanation it is not probable (inconsistency with visual effects) and hence discussion of "possible" theories in this article is extraneous to the factual data it should contain.

'''' it would be better to add dissenting information that supports your view.''''
The article's not a forum for discussion. If you're after half-baked rationalizations of sci-fi technology you watch lesser shows than BSG, the BSG wiki should be held to similar standards, in my opinion. - --[[User:Niles|Niles]] 19:04, 11 December 2006 (CST)

: Hi Niles, welcome to the Wiki. Thank you for your comments, contributions and concerns, though I will firmly suggest that you consider your tone when addressing other contributors. Spencerian is correct in that possible, logical explanation is acceptable speculation per policy; this does not, in any way, discount adding other explanations, as long as they are reasonably proved and cited. I've also gone over the history of the article in question and have found that you've removed a substantial amount of the article, without discussing it ''before'' you did so. While you did implement some great corrections to the article, I firmly believe that simply discussing such a drastic move prior to implementing it would have been beneficial, and may have ended up in further ''developing'' the article (such as adding other ''scientific'' means of FTL deployed in the series) instead of ''reducing'' the article. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:57, 11 December 2006 (CST)

== Discussions regarding theories posted in the article ==

I'm probably opening a can of worms by doing this, but I believe it is necessary. Barring any official word from the producers, or even [[Kevin Grazier]], we should probably remove the "underpinning" theory, or thoroughly revise the piece so as to include ''thorough'' sourcing with information from reputable scientific journals. So let's begin discussing this issue. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:03, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:I agree. I only recently found Grazier's tech blog that speaks about some of this and can be revised. The screen evidence suggests wormhole, but we need Grazier's information to source it. His blog also illuminates content of the [[Computers in the Re-imagined Series]] article, too, and I've been hoping to get time to update/amend that as well. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:51, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

:Uh, what does reputable scientific journals have got to do with anything? It's nice that they're scientific, reputable and no doubt nifty; but what a scientist says has no bearing on a tv show. The only ones who can say exactly how jumpdrive works, are the writers/creators/producers of the show. Even than, it should be taken with a grain of salt until it is actually said and shown in-show - that is, if you demand that only facts and nothing but facts about the show are present in the wiki. --[[User:3DMaster|3DMaster]] 06:33, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

::If you clicked on the link provided, you'd understand that Dr. [[Kevin Grazier]] is the scientific advisor to the Re-imagined Series. Short of Ron Moore himself and maybe a handful of co-producers and writers such as [[Bradley Thompson]] (who visits this wiki personally on occasion to [[BW:OC|answer pertinent questions of the show]]), there is no higher authority. Grazier is a true "rocket scientist" and has probably forgotten more about science than any of us contributors know. Don't misconstrue about how the wiki's objectives are as they pertain to facts. Grazier's information is already based on scientific principles that he has already referenced and sourced, so we can take what he says with far more than just a grain of salt. The key here is to use what he has said and written to better improve the RDM articles. No one says this is an easy task, nor is the wiki intended to be "perfect" when you and others first arrive. So you are invited to help, now that you've (''[[Talk:Propulsion (TOS)|ad nauseum]]'') identified a problem, and other contributors are trying now to improve matters based on your comments. Hint: ''You can't fix an article's problem by just editing its ''talk'' page.''. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:35, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

==Cinematography==

I was just curious, does anyone know how they achieve that effect when they shoot inside the ship during a jump? It's like the scene stretches out somehow. It doesn't look like computer graphics to me so there must be some way to achieve that effect on film. {{unsigned|PhoenixHacker}}
:It's an interesting effect and really adds atmosphere to a scene. It's called a [[w:Dolly zoom|Dolly zoom]] (Hitchcock effect) and in basic explanations its just when you zoom and move the camcorder at the same time. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:08, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

==Flash Color==

This may be just me, but did anyone notice that there used to be a red and blue flash in the first bunch of episodes when ships would jump, and then began to be a general white flash in latter episodes? Is this even worth noting?--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 16:51, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Lymphocytic encephalitis/Archive 1

2007-06-30T21:40:14Z

DuMan: /* Real Disease */

There is this article and this one: [[Lymphocytic virus]]

One should probably be deleted and a redirect created to the other one. I'd delete this one and keep the other one since it's longer. It just needs to be rewritten and conventionized a bit --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:52, 12 November 2006 (CST)
: Concur. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:57, 12 November 2006 (CST)
::As it exists of the latest edit, it's actually correct. One article about the pathogen and one about the disease it causes. So we could keep this. But now there is one titled "L... Virus" and one "L... virus" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:42, 12 November 2006 (CST)

Sorry guys, my comp is frakked up. It was goin slow. i created the latter articles, if you delete one delete the L...virus one (small case virus) beacuse the link on the encephalitis page directs the user to the one with capital V..irus. If you follow? [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 17:45, 12 November 2006 (CST)
:It's not your computer, but the website. I had the same problem when I made the first comment actually. You think it hasn't been sent yet and resubmitt a change, so it gets sent twice...And yes, the lower case article should either be deleted fully or be turned into a redirect.
:Btw, you should use the present tense when writing articles. The past tense is only for events prior to the show --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:54, 12 November 2006 (CST)

*This is the accurately named article. Therefore it's the "real" article on the subject of the virus. Not that poorly done "Lymphocytic virus" article. -- [[User:Troyian|Troyian]] 21:25, 12 November 2006 (CST)

== Real Disease ==
[http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/mnpages/dispages/lcmv/qa.htm Here]'s a quick link to the CDC page about the real disease. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:57, 14 November 2006 (CST)
:Would be nice to have this as a note on the article. Always nice to encourage teaching people stuff, especially through science fiction.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 16:40, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

==BioElectric Feedback==
Should we mention that it's the bioelectic feedback that follows the consciousness into a resurrection ship rather than the biological virus itself? Just to clarify because people may think we mean the biological virus itself downloads. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:17, 24 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Navigation in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2007-06-30T21:28:09Z

DuMan:

This article comprises the topics on navigation from a past larger article version of [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]], broken out for later expansion and page size considerations. The Reaction Control System article and parts of the FTL article are also included. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:13, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

There may be a significant error in the section on distances. The 30 minute communications delay between Adar and Roslin is most likely a total round trip delay -- 15 minutes each way, not 30. This would mean that all distances, times, and speeds derived from this number should be halved. --[[User:Girckin|Girckin]] 21:22, 7 November 2006 (CST)
:When Roslin later speaks to 'Jack' over the wireless, there is no such delay whatsoever. Billy may have meant the time it takes to get Roslin's speech from the plane to the President's eyes, or some delay in that process. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:07, 2 January 2007 (CST)

== Cleanup ==

I've tagged this for clean-up, it is a mess, for example it has self references, assumptions and original research, which are not encyclopaedic. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 15:44, 30 December 2006 (CST)

:Keep in mind, before you make changes, that ''Battlestar Galactica'' is a work of fiction. The information in this encyclopedia is self-referencing sometimes because it is it's own universe. Much of the research involves [[BW:CJ#Derived content|derived content]], which is allowable if it is based on information provided by official information in the show. Be careful not to apply the original research processes os Wikipedia here; they do not fully apply. Please note what items you consider original research so all can review them and determine if the items are derived content or ''unsourced original research'', also known as [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], which is not allowable here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:53, 30 December 2006 (CST)
::"We know that Battlestar Galactica's universe sticks to the same speed of light constant as real-world Earth (and the universe, of course): 186,282 miles per second." - Who is we? Is we me and the wiki, if so how do I know, how does we know? - Basically you should never use the word "we" here -- Self-referencing isn't just writing down text, an example of self-referencing would be an episode page.
:::"Given the velocities involved, extremely high accelerations must be used to attain them in reasonable (useable [''sic'']) time frames involved for in-system transportation. Such G forces would kill any humans involved unless some means of dampening them were employed. Given that the technology to perform "space-folding" FTL Jumps is also available, the technology to manipulate gravity would lie in the same area." - space-folding, when has space-folding been mentioned in the series?
::::Just two things that immediately jump out at me. This page reads like an essay to me at least. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 17:34, 1 January 2007 (CST)

:::I agree, Matthew. We can neutralize the writing to make it leas like an essay. If you don't get to it, I'll make the changes. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:37, 1 January 2007 (CST)

:::: About space-folding: While it hasn't been stated on screen, I recall an interview with Moore and/or Eick, where they said that they wanted to actually show the spacefolding effect in more detail, but couldn't get it to look good. So at the end they settled for the current effect. Or it might even be in "33" or "Miniseries" podcast. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:39, 2 January 2007 (CST)

:::::It was from the miniseries DVD commentary, I believe. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:00, 2 January 2007 (CST)

== 'What happened in "Scattered"' section ==

I've just deleted the entire "What happened in Scattered" section, as it was [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]]. [[User:Whalepelt|Whalepelt]] 20:14, 28 February 2007 (CST)
:I disagree. I think this still falls under derived content. It's more speculative than most articles, but in line with some others, especially in the science section. But it's not made-up outright, nor does it try to explain away inexplicable plotholes (which is what fanwanking is for me). Most it was deduction from a few lines in the episode (like needing to make new starfixes, and the relaying of the jump coordinates), together with some other FTL facts we know, like the need for computations and the concept of a [[blind jump]]. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:30, 1 March 2007 (CST)
::I {{support}} the deletion. I'm a big proponent of the science pages (having authored most of them), but as I re-read this section, I realized that there isn't any episode sourcing for the piece, however well-thought out. This section is truly fanwank; to be derived content, it has to know the procedures (not just supposed technical mechanics) of FTL navigation as explained in the show, and that hasn't been detailed in any episode at this time. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:10, 1 March 2007 (CST)
:::There are snippets of dialogue to back it up. There is the conversation between Saul and Ellen Tigh (referenced in the text), where he explains the basics. And there it's also said that jump plots are continually updated and that Gaeta forgot to send the new ones. So what happened? Something like a blind jump. They had a jump plot, but a wrong one and ended up in a random place unknown to ''Galactica''. We know that such jumps are possible, but they are unpredictable; exactly what happened here. Yeah, it could be sourced better, but the explanation doesn't come out of thin air. The last paragraph is pure speculation and not explained in the episode either, but it's the only possible explanation for what happened. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:30, 1 March 2007 (CST)
::::I see your point, although I don't think I can quantify it. Could you readd the relevant parts with supporting sources? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:45, 1 March 2007 (CST)
:::::Done, and it's better than before. I put the Tigh quote in a footnote, and made a clearer reference to blind jumps. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:37, 1 March 2007 (CST)
:::::I'm cool with it. Nice work! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:02, 1 March 2007 (CST)

== FTL jump calculations ==
*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

"Here, the dimension of distance would represent more than just a straight line, plotted through three-dimensional space but the amount of space curvature that the jump drive would have to fold."

Not true, they can just be [[w:Spherical_coordinate_system|Spherical coordinates]], which draws a line of length r (note the similar notation to radius), but with a specific orientation in space depending the angles θ and φ. No special space-folding math here.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 16:28, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

User:DuMan

2007-06-30T20:51:30Z

DuMan:

User:DuMan

2007-06-30T20:14:17Z

DuMan: New page: Fan of the show and trying not to fanwank. Might add more content here latter.

Fan of the show and trying not to fanwank. Might add more content here latter.

User talk:DuMan

2007-06-25T00:27:53Z

DuMan: /* Letter to Critics of the Technological Singularity Artlce */

User talk:DuMan

2007-06-25T00:27:27Z

DuMan: /* Recent Rollback */

Talk:God (RDM)/Archive 1

2007-06-22T23:20:26Z

DuMan: /* "Scientific Explanation" Section */

It always seemed to me that "God" is the Cylon central computer (or equivalent). My hypothesis is that the "re-imagined" Count Iblis will be the God.[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:21, 21 May 2005 (EDT)

== from the author ==

Do you like this style of this God page that I wrote? I personally think the quotes are too numerous. I'll probably delete some quotes, but it's hard to know which might prove important. For example, Adama's speaking of God may be significant. I would love to have such quotes about other topics on other Wiki pages, as it's easier to do unbiased research this way.

Regarding your theory of the Cylon God being Iblis, although there probably is a head Cylon like that, their religion seems more abstract: "We are all God, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together."

Should we include deleted scenes on Wiki pages? There is an important bit of dialog in KLG 1 about the legend of a jealous god who tried to elevate himself above the rest. Internal Six replies something like, "Blasphemy! There has only ever been one God."

I need help for the original series section of this God page. I haven't watched the original series since the late 70's! Feel free to do whatever you want with that section.

-[[User:MHall|MHall]]

I don't think we should include colonial expressions of "God", as I'm pretty sure they're just accidentals from the actors. - Chris

:The "… play God …" quote in particular needn't be considered monotheistic. A polytheist can easily refer to a singular god, and not mean the only God. "play god" can just as easily mean "play at being a god" as "play at being God himself".

:I would recommend removing that one at the very least from the monotheist list.
:--[[User:Brons|Brons]] 08:37, 3 December 2006 (CST)
:In complete agreement, I have removed that sentence. Even a polytheistic religion can refer to one god like this. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:57, 3 December 2006 (CST)

== about that "Jesus" thing ==

I've seen the original US release of the miniseries once, but what I've watched the most is the UK DVD. And I can't recall Tigh saying "Jesus". Wasn't that dubbed over with something else? I vaguely recall reading something about that --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:02, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
:It's in both of my copies of the miniseries (the pre-season one release and the season one boxed set.) The Lord appears in mysterious dialogue. :P --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 15:16, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
::It's when Adama shows Tigh the really old picture. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:18, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, I found it by now. It's really under the breath, which is why I missed it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:24, 24 April 2007 (CDT)

==pockets of Monotheism in the colonies?==

Ok this is a small matter but from the mini did anyone get the feeling that the worship of one single god wasn't completely unheard of in the colonies? Six's comments about God are mocked by Baltar but he isn't shocked by the notion of one god. Basically what I'm getting at is that in the real world we have people who claim to have gone back to pagan religions and they worship multiple gods...could the opposite have been true in the colonies. That a monotheistic religion was something some colonists adapted as a way to be contrary or as even an actual alternative to the kobolian faith? I'm not saying it was widespread or even a major issue within the colonies. Basically there were colonists who wanted to be different and were mocked for having what other colonists percieved as a wacky religion. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.
: Gaeta makes comments that seem to support this in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" when Adama reviews the texts regarding Kobol. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:11, 2 February 2007 (CST)

=="Scientific Explanation" Section==
Perhaps it's me, but I feel that this section is mainly theoretical and as such should not really be there. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:38, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:Erm, never mind ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:39, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:I really like it, and vaguely thought of something similar once (not in such detail, but that god is a real construct). It also reminds me of the Ultimate Intelligence in Dan Simmon's ''[[w:Hyperion Cantos|Hyperion Cantos]]'' which I read recently. But as you say, unfortunately it's way to speculative for this place. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:42, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::It's not in the series and has no sources and is wholly fanwank. I've rolled it back and await any sources. I can say that the Cylons are actually part of the ancient Matrix, but that doesn't make it true. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:45, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::I'm well aware of that and said that it has no place here. I just think it's interesting nonetheless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:48, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Sorry, didn't mean to sound at all snappy there. I'm feeling a bit [[w:birthday|"''get off my lawn you crazy kids''"]] today and probably tomorrow. 8/ --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:50, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::Hello, I am the one who wrote the original article. As for the information, I got the quoted portions from the wiki on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity, which has multiple links to respected sources, especially http://www.kurzweilai.net/index.html?flash=1, which was where I first heard about the idea. If there is a specific way to write an article that includes respected sources, please let me know and I will consider writing one. As for it being "mainly theoretical" and "speculative," I would argue the "Background to FTL in the Re-imagined Series" article is just as speculative as no one in the series mentions the physics behind it. However, it did not stop someone on committing how FTL is scientifically plausible, thus showing how true to reality the show can be. I check this sight frequently and I am always disappointed that no one wrote about how the cylon "god" (or any "god") is scientifically plausible. In keeping with how true to reality the show can be, I thought it was appropriate to comment on how a "god" could actually exist in nBSG without relying on a supernatural basis or aliens.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 22:01, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
::::::For what it's worth, there was some concern about the FTL article as well, regarding its validity to the show. At least as far as the scientific speculation is concerned. And some articles are indeed more speculative than others, making some case-by-case decisions necessary. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how well you source your information here, as the problem is its connection to the show itself.
::::::I understand that you put some effort into this, and even basically agree with it, or appreciate it. But aside from a minimal note like "It's hasn't been established whether this God is supernatural or can be explained with scientific means", I don't see how we can use any of this. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:21, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::::On the first point, philosophically, I do appreciate the FTL article and any article that adds more information to the show even if the show does not explicitly say it, so long as that information has a ''strong scientific'' backing. As the show holds so strongly to a tenant of expressing realism, I am sure its creators would incorporate any strong scientific concepts into their verse as they have with networking, nuclear arms, and AI, provided they had time to mention it.
:::::::As I read through the adjacent article on cylon religion, I was unable to find the source of your quotes, but regardless most of the articles on this site imply that the cylon god is a supernatural being. This article refers to the god as a "deity" and the article on cylon religion refers to it as a "metaphysical being." The latter term does support other definitions of the cylon’s god being more of an abstract concept or an idea rather than supernatural entity, but it still does not address the actual scientific plausibility of a "god" existing. Without a possible scientific explanation, readers will always walk away with the one-sided idea that the cylon god is and can only be a supernatural being, rather than something scientifically plausible as AI.
:::::::As for my intentions, I thought my writing was bad and wrote most of it off the cuff, thus I was not particularly proud of it. My main intention was to generate discussion on this topic and have its possibility mentioned in the article. ''Given the cylon's are strongly rooted in the topic of AI and the idea of a technological singularity branches off of that topic, I believe it is more than reasonable to at least mention it in this article''.
:::::::On a side note, please let me know if I should take my defenses personally to each member that criticizes my contributions rather than posting them here, as this page might become quite lengthy. And again, if you just demand better writing or sourcing, tell me exactly how (or refer me to the relevant section in the FAQ) and I will consider writing the article myself.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 19:21, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Talk:God (RDM)/Archive 1

2007-06-22T23:17:07Z

DuMan: /* "Scientific Explanation" Section */

It always seemed to me that "God" is the Cylon central computer (or equivalent). My hypothesis is that the "re-imagined" Count Iblis will be the God.[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:21, 21 May 2005 (EDT)

== from the author ==

Do you like this style of this God page that I wrote? I personally think the quotes are too numerous. I'll probably delete some quotes, but it's hard to know which might prove important. For example, Adama's speaking of God may be significant. I would love to have such quotes about other topics on other Wiki pages, as it's easier to do unbiased research this way.

Regarding your theory of the Cylon God being Iblis, although there probably is a head Cylon like that, their religion seems more abstract: "We are all God, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together."

Should we include deleted scenes on Wiki pages? There is an important bit of dialog in KLG 1 about the legend of a jealous god who tried to elevate himself above the rest. Internal Six replies something like, "Blasphemy! There has only ever been one God."

I need help for the original series section of this God page. I haven't watched the original series since the late 70's! Feel free to do whatever you want with that section.

-[[User:MHall|MHall]]

I don't think we should include colonial expressions of "God", as I'm pretty sure they're just accidentals from the actors. - Chris

:The "… play God …" quote in particular needn't be considered monotheistic. A polytheist can easily refer to a singular god, and not mean the only God. "play god" can just as easily mean "play at being a god" as "play at being God himself".

:I would recommend removing that one at the very least from the monotheist list.
:--[[User:Brons|Brons]] 08:37, 3 December 2006 (CST)
:In complete agreement, I have removed that sentence. Even a polytheistic religion can refer to one god like this. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:57, 3 December 2006 (CST)

== about that "Jesus" thing ==

I've seen the original US release of the miniseries once, but what I've watched the most is the UK DVD. And I can't recall Tigh saying "Jesus". Wasn't that dubbed over with something else? I vaguely recall reading something about that --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:02, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
:It's in both of my copies of the miniseries (the pre-season one release and the season one boxed set.) The Lord appears in mysterious dialogue. :P --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 15:16, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
::It's when Adama shows Tigh the really old picture. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:18, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, I found it by now. It's really under the breath, which is why I missed it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:24, 24 April 2007 (CDT)

==pockets of Monotheism in the colonies?==

Ok this is a small matter but from the mini did anyone get the feeling that the worship of one single god wasn't completely unheard of in the colonies? Six's comments about God are mocked by Baltar but he isn't shocked by the notion of one god. Basically what I'm getting at is that in the real world we have people who claim to have gone back to pagan religions and they worship multiple gods...could the opposite have been true in the colonies. That a monotheistic religion was something some colonists adapted as a way to be contrary or as even an actual alternative to the kobolian faith? I'm not saying it was widespread or even a major issue within the colonies. Basically there were colonists who wanted to be different and were mocked for having what other colonists percieved as a wacky religion. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.
: Gaeta makes comments that seem to support this in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" when Adama reviews the texts regarding Kobol. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:11, 2 February 2007 (CST)

=="Scientific Explanation" Section==
Perhaps it's me, but I feel that this section is mainly theoretical and as such should not really be there. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:38, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:Erm, never mind ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:39, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:I really like it, and vaguely thought of something similar once (not in such detail, but that god is a real construct). It also reminds me of the Ultimate Intelligence in Dan Simmon's ''[[w:Hyperion Cantos|Hyperion Cantos]]'' which I read recently. But as you say, unfortunately it's way to speculative for this place. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:42, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::It's not in the series and has no sources and is wholly fanwank. I've rolled it back and await any sources. I can say that the Cylons are actually part of the ancient Matrix, but that doesn't make it true. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:45, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::I'm well aware of that and said that it has no place here. I just think it's interesting nonetheless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:48, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Sorry, didn't mean to sound at all snappy there. I'm feeling a bit [[w:birthday|"''get off my lawn you crazy kids''"]] today and probably tomorrow. 8/ --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:50, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::Hello, I am the one who wrote the original article. As for the information, I got the quoted portions from the wiki on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity, which has multiple links to respected sources, especially http://www.kurzweilai.net/index.html?flash=1, which was where I first heard about the idea. If there is a specific way to write an article that includes respected sources, please let me know and I will consider writing one. As for it being "mainly theoretical" and "speculative," I would argue the "Background to FTL in the Re-imagined Series" article is just as speculative as no one in the series mentions the physics behind it. However, it did not stop someone on committing how FTL is scientifically plausible, thus showing how true to reality the show can be. I check this sight frequently and I am always disappointed that no one wrote about how the cylon "god" (or any "god") is scientifically plausible. In keeping with how true to reality the show can be, I thought it was appropriate to comment on how a "god" could actually exist in nBSG without relying on a supernatural basis or aliens.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 22:01, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
::::::For what it's worth, there was some concern about the FTL article as well, regarding its validity to the show. At least as far as the scientific speculation is concerned. And some articles are indeed more speculative than others, making some case-by-case decisions necessary. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how well you source your information here, as the problem is its connection to the show itself.
::::::I understand that you put some effort into this, and even basically agree with it, or appreciate it. But aside from a minimal note like "It's hasn't been established whether this God is supernatural or can be explained with scientific means", I don't see how we can use any of this. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:21, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::::On the first point, philosophically, I do appreciate the FTL article and any article that adds more information to the show even if the show does not explicitly say it, so long as that information has a ''strong scientific'' backing. As the show holds so strongly a tenant of expressing realism, I am sure its creators would incorporate any strong scientific concepts into their verse as they have with the networking, nuclear arms, and AI, provided they had time to mention it.
:::::::As I read through the adjacent article on cylon religion, I was unable to find the source of your quotes, but regardless most of the articles on this site imply that the cylon god is a supernatural being. This article refers to the god as a "deity" and the article on cylon religion refers to it as a "metaphysical being." The latter term does support other definitions of the cylon’s god being more of an abstract concept or an idea rather than supernatural entity, but it still does not address the actual scientific plausibility of a "god" existing. Without a possible scientific explanation, readers will always walk away with the one-sided idea that the cylon god is and can only be a supernatural being, rather than something scientifically plausible as AI.
:::::::As for my intentions, I thought my writing was bad and wrote most of it off the cuff, thus I was not particularly proud of it. My main intention was to generate discussion on this topic and have its possibility mentioned in the article. ''Given the cylon's are strongly rooted in the topic of AI and the idea of a technological singularity branches off of that topic, I believe it is more than reasonable to at least mention it in this article''.
:::::::On a side note, please let me know if I should take my defenses personally to each member that criticizes my contributions rather than posting them here, as this page might become quite lengthy. And again, if you just demand better writing or sourcing, tell me exactly how (or refer me to the relevant section in the FAQ) and I will consider writing the article myself.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 19:21, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Talk:God (RDM)/Archive 1

2007-06-22T23:16:26Z

DuMan: /* "Scientific Explanation" Section */

It always seemed to me that "God" is the Cylon central computer (or equivalent). My hypothesis is that the "re-imagined" Count Iblis will be the God.[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:21, 21 May 2005 (EDT)

== from the author ==

Do you like this style of this God page that I wrote? I personally think the quotes are too numerous. I'll probably delete some quotes, but it's hard to know which might prove important. For example, Adama's speaking of God may be significant. I would love to have such quotes about other topics on other Wiki pages, as it's easier to do unbiased research this way.

Regarding your theory of the Cylon God being Iblis, although there probably is a head Cylon like that, their religion seems more abstract: "We are all God, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together."

Should we include deleted scenes on Wiki pages? There is an important bit of dialog in KLG 1 about the legend of a jealous god who tried to elevate himself above the rest. Internal Six replies something like, "Blasphemy! There has only ever been one God."

I need help for the original series section of this God page. I haven't watched the original series since the late 70's! Feel free to do whatever you want with that section.

-[[User:MHall|MHall]]

I don't think we should include colonial expressions of "God", as I'm pretty sure they're just accidentals from the actors. - Chris

:The "… play God …" quote in particular needn't be considered monotheistic. A polytheist can easily refer to a singular god, and not mean the only God. "play god" can just as easily mean "play at being a god" as "play at being God himself".

:I would recommend removing that one at the very least from the monotheist list.
:--[[User:Brons|Brons]] 08:37, 3 December 2006 (CST)
:In complete agreement, I have removed that sentence. Even a polytheistic religion can refer to one god like this. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:57, 3 December 2006 (CST)

== about that "Jesus" thing ==

I've seen the original US release of the miniseries once, but what I've watched the most is the UK DVD. And I can't recall Tigh saying "Jesus". Wasn't that dubbed over with something else? I vaguely recall reading something about that --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:02, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
:It's in both of my copies of the miniseries (the pre-season one release and the season one boxed set.) The Lord appears in mysterious dialogue. :P --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 15:16, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
::It's when Adama shows Tigh the really old picture. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:18, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, I found it by now. It's really under the breath, which is why I missed it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:24, 24 April 2007 (CDT)

==pockets of Monotheism in the colonies?==

Ok this is a small matter but from the mini did anyone get the feeling that the worship of one single god wasn't completely unheard of in the colonies? Six's comments about God are mocked by Baltar but he isn't shocked by the notion of one god. Basically what I'm getting at is that in the real world we have people who claim to have gone back to pagan religions and they worship multiple gods...could the opposite have been true in the colonies. That a monotheistic religion was something some colonists adapted as a way to be contrary or as even an actual alternative to the kobolian faith? I'm not saying it was widespread or even a major issue within the colonies. Basically there were colonists who wanted to be different and were mocked for having what other colonists percieved as a wacky religion. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.
: Gaeta makes comments that seem to support this in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" when Adama reviews the texts regarding Kobol. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:11, 2 February 2007 (CST)

=="Scientific Explanation" Section==
Perhaps it's me, but I feel that this section is mainly theoretical and as such should not really be there. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:38, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:Erm, never mind ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:39, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:I really like it, and vaguely thought of something similar once (not in such detail, but that god is a real construct). It also reminds me of the Ultimate Intelligence in Dan Simmon's ''[[w:Hyperion Cantos|Hyperion Cantos]]'' which I read recently. But as you say, unfortunately it's way to speculative for this place. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:42, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::It's not in the series and has no sources and is wholly fanwank. I've rolled it back and await any sources. I can say that the Cylons are actually part of the ancient Matrix, but that doesn't make it true. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:45, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::I'm well aware of that and said that it has no place here. I just think it's interesting nonetheless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:48, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Sorry, didn't mean to sound at all snappy there. I'm feeling a bit [[w:birthday|"''get off my lawn you crazy kids''"]] today and probably tomorrow. 8/ --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:50, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::Hello, I am the one who wrote the original article. As for the information, I got the quoted portions from the wiki on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity, which has multiple links to respected sources, especially http://www.kurzweilai.net/index.html?flash=1, which was where I first heard about the idea. If there is a specific way to write an article that includes respected sources, please let me know and I will consider writing one. As for it being "mainly theoretical" and "speculative," I would argue the "Background to FTL in the Re-imagined Series" article is just as speculative as no one in the series mentions the physics behind it. However, it did not stop someone on committing how FTL is scientifically plausible, thus showing how true to reality the show can be. I check this sight frequently and I am always disappointed that no one wrote about how the cylon "god" (or any "god") is scientifically plausible. In keeping with how true to reality the show can be, I thought it was appropriate to comment on how a "god" could actually exist in nBSG without relying on a supernatural basis or aliens.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 22:01, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
::::::For what it's worth, there was some concern about the FTL article as well, regarding its validity to the show. At least as far as the scientific speculation is concerned. And some articles are indeed more speculative than others, making some case-by-case decisions necessary. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how well you source your information here, as the problem is its connection to the show itself.
::::::I understand that you put some effort into this, and even basically agree with it, or appreciate it. But aside from a minimal note like "It's hasn't been established whether this God is supernatural or can be explained with scientific means", I don't see how we can use any of this. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:21, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::::On the first point, philosophically, I do appreciate the FTL article and any article that adds more information to the show even if the show does not explicitly say it, so long as that information has a ''strong scientific'' backing. As the show holds so strongly a tenant of expressing realism, I am sure its creators would incorporate any strong scientific concepts into their verse as they have with the networking, nuclear arms, and AI, provided they had time to mention it.
:::::::As I read through the adjacent article on cylon religion, I was unable to find the source of your quotes, but regardless most of the articles on this site imply that the cylon god is a supernatural being. This article refers to the god as a "deity" and the article on cylon religion refers to it as a "metaphysical being." The latter term does support other definitions of the cylon’s god being more of an abstract concept or an idea rather than supernatural entity, but it still does not address the actual scientific plausibility of a "god" existing. Without a possible scientific explanation, readers will always walk away with the one-sided idea that the cylon god is and can only be a supernatural being, rather than something scientifically plausible as AI.
:::::::As for my intentions, I thought my writing was bad and wrote most of it off the cuff, thus I was not particularly proud of it. My main intention was to generate discussion on this topic and have its possibility mentioned in the article. ''Given the cylon's are strongly rooted in the topic of AI and the idea of a technological singularity branches off of that topic, I believe it is more than reasonable to at least mention it in this article''.
:::::::On a side note, please let me know if I should take my defenses personally to each member that criticizes my contributions rather than posting them here, as this page might become quite lengthy. And again, if you just demand better writing or sourcing, tell me exactly how (or refer me to the relevant section in the FAQ) and I will consider writing the article myself.
--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 19:21, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Talk:God (RDM)/Archive 1

2007-06-22T02:01:45Z

DuMan: /* "Scientific Explanation" Section */

God (RDM)

2007-06-18T21:34:31Z

DuMan: /* Scientific Explanation */

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|250px|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]]]

:''This page is about God as depicted and worshiped by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons in the Re-imagined Series]].''
:''For information on Cylon religion in general, see [[Cylon Religion]].''
:''For information on the Colonial dieties in the Re-imagined Series, see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#The Lords of Kobol]].''
:''For information on the nature of God to the Colonials in the Original Series, see [[God (TOS)]].''

The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] worship a deity they call only by the name of '''God'''.

The Cylons justify or attribute much of their actions, including the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|genocidal attack against humanity]], as a requirement of their God.

The Cylons profess a series of commandments given by their God. However, the specific commandments have not fully revealed.

While very knowledgeable of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]], the Cylons feel that the Colonials worship false gods ([[Home, Part I]])<ref>Despite the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|parallelism]] of the Lords of Kobol with the Olympian Gods of real-world Earth mythology, the parallelisms of the [[Wikipedia:Abrahamic conceptions of God|Judeo-Christian God]] are fewer. In "[[Occupation]]", Leoben Conoy prays before a meal, using a prayer that begins with "Heavenly father." When several dying Cylons are found on a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]], they crawl together and [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing|begin a prayer]] that also includes "Heavenly father."</ref>.

==Notable References==

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Leoben Conoy]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]]
* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- William Adama, Miniseries
* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- Leoben Conoy, "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's [[The Destiny|your destiny, and mine]]." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "Procreation, it’s one of God’s commandments, be fruitful. We can’t fulfill it we tried so we decided to <nowiki>[</nowiki>''create [[farms]]''<nowiki>]</nowiki>." -- [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]], "[[The Farm]]"

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Gaius crucifiction pose.jpg|thumb|Baltar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"]]

The Re-imagined Series contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts.

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, Miniseries<ref>According to [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]], the "jesus" line was an [[Wikipedia:ad-lib|ad-lib]] by [[Michael Hogan]]. Therefore, it should not be taken as a serious reference to [[Wikipedia:Christianity|Christianity]].</ref>

* "I was... [Six: ''Am.''] I am..." -- [[Gaius Baltar]], "[[The Hand of God]]" (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- [[Playa Palacios]], "[[Colonial Day]]"

* "I figured, the devil you know..." -- [[Laura Roslin]], "Colonial Day"

* "God is love" -- Number Six, Miniseries, (1 John 4:16)

The "I am" statement in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" is noteworthy because of the self-description that the Judeo-Christian God gives to Moses in the Book of Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]]. The Christian messiah, Jesus, has a series of "I am" statements in the New Testament of the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements. The Hebrew name for God, [[Wikipedia:Yahweh|Yahweh]], is derived from the Hebrew word for "I am" or "to be".

The five priests of the [[Temple of Five]] worshiped a "god whose name must not be spoken." In Jewish tradition, the name of God (Yahweh) is not spoken. In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|deleted scene]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." The 1st commandment requires the faithful have no other god before Yahweh.

A number of elements from the show derive from Mormonism, the religion of series creator [[Glen Larson]]. In particular, the concept of a lost [[Thirteenth Tribe]] is from Mormon legend. The [[Quorum of Twelve]] is also a Mormon concept.

A curious parallel to the series is found in the [[Wikipedia:Messiah|messianic]] figure of the Old Testament, [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]], who led the Israelites out of the Egyptian captivity into the promised land. He actually did not live to lead the Israelites into the promised land because he doubted the water coming from the stone (Numbers 20:12). This parallels the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] of the leader (presumed to be [[Laura Roslin]]) ,who, according to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], will not live to see the promised land of Earth ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The name of [[Pergamus Flats]] (a location on [[New Caprica]]) is similar to [[Wikipedia:Pergamus|Pergamus]], a city mentioned in Revelations 2:12.

==Scientific Explanation==
In the cylon's evolution, they may have developed what some computer scientists call a "[[Wikipedia: Technological singularity | technological singularity]]" (or just "singularity") where an AI's consciousness surpasses that of a normal human’s consciousness. The concept of singularity developed as a generalization of Moore's Law applied to the field of AI, where it is believed that just as technology rapidly improves, so would a conscious AI given that they have tools and abilities to improve themselves. They would then be capable of "recursively augmenting their own mental abilities until they vastly exceed those of their creators," making them a "supercomputer" or super-consciousness or sorts.

Not only would such a super-consciousness be able to calculate all the best possible permutations or moves, say in a game of chess, but it might even be able to accurately predict human behavior as its consciousness surpasses that of a humans. This is evident in Six's manipulative behavior as well as in the careful orchestrated actions of most of the other cylons.

While not possessing the supernatural powers of a god, a singularity would have such predictive and manipulative powers that it could almost be considered equivalent to a god.

==Official statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about fan speculation that the Cylon God may be Count Iblis in the Re-imagined Series:

: Q: "There's speculation that Count Iblis' counterpart in this series is the as-yet-unseen Cylon God. Is there any possibility that elements of the original series "War of the Gods" storyline may weave themselves into the new series?

:RDM: While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now. The theological construct we've been establishing seems more interesting to me at this point and I don't think Iblis will be part of the current show."

*RDM noted in his [[podcast]] of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", that the original ending of Season One called for actor [[Dirk Benedict]] to appear to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and introduce himself as "God". Numerous prohibiting factors prevented this storyline from making it on camera, chief among them was Moore's confessed inability to write a feasible conclusion to the surprise revelation at the time. Another mitigating factor which influenced Moore to drop the idea was that when he revealed his idea to the other writers, the entire writing team found the idea simply revolting, so Moore acquiesced.

* In an interview at beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_3.html) RDM makes the following statement in response to the question:
:Q: " In “Galactica 1980,” we actually meet the “Imperious Commander” of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

:A: I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you’d be disappointed. They’re in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It’s a fundamental element of their faith. "

== See Also ==

[[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

God (RDM)

2007-06-18T21:30:50Z

DuMan: /* Judeo-Christian References */

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|250px|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]]]

:''This page is about God as depicted and worshiped by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons in the Re-imagined Series]].''
:''For information on Cylon religion in general, see [[Cylon Religion]].''
:''For information on the Colonial dieties in the Re-imagined Series, see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#The Lords of Kobol]].''
:''For information on the nature of God to the Colonials in the Original Series, see [[God (TOS)]].''

The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] worship a deity they call only by the name of '''God'''.

The Cylons justify or attribute much of their actions, including the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|genocidal attack against humanity]], as a requirement of their God.

The Cylons profess a series of commandments given by their God. However, the specific commandments have not fully revealed.

While very knowledgeable of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]], the Cylons feel that the Colonials worship false gods ([[Home, Part I]])<ref>Despite the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|parallelism]] of the Lords of Kobol with the Olympian Gods of real-world Earth mythology, the parallelisms of the [[Wikipedia:Abrahamic conceptions of God|Judeo-Christian God]] are fewer. In "[[Occupation]]", Leoben Conoy prays before a meal, using a prayer that begins with "Heavenly father." When several dying Cylons are found on a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]], they crawl together and [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing|begin a prayer]] that also includes "Heavenly father."</ref>.

==Notable References==

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Leoben Conoy]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]]
* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- William Adama, Miniseries
* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- Leoben Conoy, "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's [[The Destiny|your destiny, and mine]]." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "Procreation, it’s one of God’s commandments, be fruitful. We can’t fulfill it we tried so we decided to <nowiki>[</nowiki>''create [[farms]]''<nowiki>]</nowiki>." -- [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]], "[[The Farm]]"

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Gaius crucifiction pose.jpg|thumb|Baltar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"]]

The Re-imagined Series contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts.

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, Miniseries<ref>According to [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]], the "jesus" line was an [[Wikipedia:ad-lib|ad-lib]] by [[Michael Hogan]]. Therefore, it should not be taken as a serious reference to [[Wikipedia:Christianity|Christianity]].</ref>

* "I was... [Six: ''Am.''] I am..." -- [[Gaius Baltar]], "[[The Hand of God]]" (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- [[Playa Palacios]], "[[Colonial Day]]"

* "I figured, the devil you know..." -- [[Laura Roslin]], "Colonial Day"

* "God is love" -- Number Six, Miniseries, (1 John 4:16)

The "I am" statement in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" is noteworthy because of the self-description that the Judeo-Christian God gives to Moses in the Book of Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]]. The Christian messiah, Jesus, has a series of "I am" statements in the New Testament of the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements. The Hebrew name for God, [[Wikipedia:Yahweh|Yahweh]], is derived from the Hebrew word for "I am" or "to be".

The five priests of the [[Temple of Five]] worshiped a "god whose name must not be spoken." In Jewish tradition, the name of God (Yahweh) is not spoken. In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|deleted scene]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." The 1st commandment requires the faithful have no other god before Yahweh.

A number of elements from the show derive from Mormonism, the religion of series creator [[Glen Larson]]. In particular, the concept of a lost [[Thirteenth Tribe]] is from Mormon legend. The [[Quorum of Twelve]] is also a Mormon concept.

A curious parallel to the series is found in the [[Wikipedia:Messiah|messianic]] figure of the Old Testament, [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]], who led the Israelites out of the Egyptian captivity into the promised land. He actually did not live to lead the Israelites into the promised land because he doubted the water coming from the stone (Numbers 20:12). This parallels the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] of the leader (presumed to be [[Laura Roslin]]) ,who, according to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], will not live to see the promised land of Earth ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The name of [[Pergamus Flats]] (a location on [[New Caprica]]) is similar to [[Wikipedia:Pergamus|Pergamus]], a city mentioned in Revelations 2:12.

==Scientific Explanation==
In the cylon's evolution, they may have developed what some computer scientists call a "[[Wikipedia: Technological singularity | technological singularity]]" (or just "singularity") where the AI consciousness developed surpasses that of a normal human’s consciousness. The concept of this singularity developed as a generalization of Moore's Law applied to the field of AI, where it is believed that just as technology rapidly improves, so would a conscious AI given that they have tools and abilities to improve themselves. They would then be capable of "recursively augmenting their own mental abilities until they vastly exceed those of their creators," making them a "supercomputer" or super-consciousness or sorts </ref>.

Not only would such a super-consciousness be able to calculate all the best possible permutations or moves, say in a game of chess, but it might even be able to accurately predict human behavior as its consciousness surpasses that of humans. This is evident in Six's manipulative behavior as well as in the careful orchestrated actions of most of the other cylons.

While not possessing the supernatural powers of a god, a singularity would have such predictive and manipulative powers that it could almost be considered as equivalent to a god.

==Official statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about fan speculation that the Cylon God may be Count Iblis in the Re-imagined Series:

: Q: "There's speculation that Count Iblis' counterpart in this series is the as-yet-unseen Cylon God. Is there any possibility that elements of the original series "War of the Gods" storyline may weave themselves into the new series?

:RDM: While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now. The theological construct we've been establishing seems more interesting to me at this point and I don't think Iblis will be part of the current show."

*RDM noted in his [[podcast]] of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", that the original ending of Season One called for actor [[Dirk Benedict]] to appear to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and introduce himself as "God". Numerous prohibiting factors prevented this storyline from making it on camera, chief among them was Moore's confessed inability to write a feasible conclusion to the surprise revelation at the time. Another mitigating factor which influenced Moore to drop the idea was that when he revealed his idea to the other writers, the entire writing team found the idea simply revolting, so Moore acquiesced.

* In an interview at beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_3.html) RDM makes the following statement in response to the question:
:Q: " In “Galactica 1980,” we actually meet the “Imperious Commander” of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

:A: I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you’d be disappointed. They’re in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It’s a fundamental element of their faith. "

== See Also ==

[[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

God (RDM)

2007-06-18T21:30:23Z

DuMan: /* Scientific Explanation */

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|250px|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]]]

:''This page is about God as depicted and worshiped by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons in the Re-imagined Series]].''
:''For information on Cylon religion in general, see [[Cylon Religion]].''
:''For information on the Colonial dieties in the Re-imagined Series, see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#The Lords of Kobol]].''
:''For information on the nature of God to the Colonials in the Original Series, see [[God (TOS)]].''

The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] worship a deity they call only by the name of '''God'''.

The Cylons justify or attribute much of their actions, including the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|genocidal attack against humanity]], as a requirement of their God.

The Cylons profess a series of commandments given by their God. However, the specific commandments have not fully revealed.

While very knowledgeable of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]], the Cylons feel that the Colonials worship false gods ([[Home, Part I]])<ref>Despite the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|parallelism]] of the Lords of Kobol with the Olympian Gods of real-world Earth mythology, the parallelisms of the [[Wikipedia:Abrahamic conceptions of God|Judeo-Christian God]] are fewer. In "[[Occupation]]", Leoben Conoy prays before a meal, using a prayer that begins with "Heavenly father." When several dying Cylons are found on a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]], they crawl together and [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing|begin a prayer]] that also includes "Heavenly father."</ref>.

==Notable References==

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Leoben Conoy]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]]
* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- William Adama, Miniseries
* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- Leoben Conoy, "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's [[The Destiny|your destiny, and mine]]." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "Procreation, it’s one of God’s commandments, be fruitful. We can’t fulfill it we tried so we decided to <nowiki>[</nowiki>''create [[farms]]''<nowiki>]</nowiki>." -- [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]], "[[The Farm]]"

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Gaius crucifiction pose.jpg|thumb|Baltar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"]]

The Re-imagined Series contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts.

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, Miniseries<ref>According to [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]], the "jesus" line was an [[Wikipedia:ad-lib|ad-lib]] by [[Michael Hogan]]. Therefore, it should not be taken as a serious reference to [[Wikipedia:Christianity|Christianity]].</ref>

* "I was... [Six: ''Am.''] I am..." -- [[Gaius Baltar]], "[[The Hand of God]]" (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- [[Playa Palacios]], "[[Colonial Day]]"

* "I figured, the devil you know..." -- [[Laura Roslin]], "Colonial Day"

* "God is love" -- Number Six, Miniseries, (1 John 4:16)

The "I am" statement in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" is noteworthy because of the self-description that the Judeo-Christian God gives to Moses in the Book of Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]]. The Christian messiah, Jesus, has a series of "I am" statements in the New Testament of the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements. The Hebrew name for God, [[Wikipedia:Yahweh|Yahweh]], is derived from the Hebrew word for "I am" or "to be".

The five priests of the [[Temple of Five]] worshiped a "god whose name must not be spoken." In Jewish tradition, the name of God (Yahweh) is not spoken. In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|deleted scene]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." The 1st commandment requires the faithful have no other god before Yahweh.

A number of elements from the show derive from Mormonism, the religion of series creator [[Glen Larson]]. In particular, the concept of a lost [[Thirteenth Tribe]] is from Mormon legend. The [[Quorum of Twelve]] is also a Mormon concept.

A curious parallel to the series is found in the [[Wikipedia:Messiah|messianic]] figure of the Old Testament, [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]], who led the Israelites out of the Egyptian captivity into the promised land. He actually did not live to lead the Israelites into the promised land because he doubted the water coming from the stone (Numbers 20:12). This parallels the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] of the leader (presumed to be [[Laura Roslin]]) ,who, according to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], will not live to see the promised land of Earth ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The name of [[Pergamus Flats]] (a location on [[New Caprica]]) is similar to [[Wikipedia:Pergamus|Pergamus]], a city mentioned in Revelations 2:12.

==Scientific Explanation==
In the cylon's evolution, they may have developed what some computer scientists call a "[[Wikipedia: Technological singularity | technological singularity]]" (or just "singularity") where the AI consciousness developed surpasses that of a normal human’s consciousness. The concept of this singularity developed as a generalization of Moore's Law applied to the field of AI, where it is believed that just as technology rapidly improves, so would a conscious AI given that they have tools and abilities to improve themselves. They would then be capable of "recursively augmenting their own mental abilities until they vastly exceed those of their creators," making them a "supercomputer" or super-consciousness or sorts </ref>.

Not only would such a super-consciousness be able to calculate all the best possible permutations or moves, say in a game of chess, but it might even be able to accurately predict human behavior as its consciousness surpasses that of humans. This is evident in Six's manipulative behavior as well as in the careful orchestrated actions of most of the other cylons.

While not possessing the supernatural powers of a god, a singularity would have such predictive and manipulative powers that it could almost be considered as equivalent to a god.

==Official statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about fan speculation that the Cylon God may be Count Iblis in the Re-imagined Series:

: Q: "There's speculation that Count Iblis' counterpart in this series is the as-yet-unseen Cylon God. Is there any possibility that elements of the original series "War of the Gods" storyline may weave themselves into the new series?

:RDM: While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now. The theological construct we've been establishing seems more interesting to me at this point and I don't think Iblis will be part of the current show."

*RDM noted in his [[podcast]] of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", that the original ending of Season One called for actor [[Dirk Benedict]] to appear to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and introduce himself as "God". Numerous prohibiting factors prevented this storyline from making it on camera, chief among them was Moore's confessed inability to write a feasible conclusion to the surprise revelation at the time. Another mitigating factor which influenced Moore to drop the idea was that when he revealed his idea to the other writers, the entire writing team found the idea simply revolting, so Moore acquiesced.

* In an interview at beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_3.html) RDM makes the following statement in response to the question:
:Q: " In “Galactica 1980,” we actually meet the “Imperious Commander” of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

:A: I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you’d be disappointed. They’re in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It’s a fundamental element of their faith. "

== See Also ==

[[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

God (RDM)

2007-06-18T21:29:42Z

DuMan: /* Scientific Explanation */

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|250px|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]]]

:''This page is about God as depicted and worshiped by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons in the Re-imagined Series]].''
:''For information on Cylon religion in general, see [[Cylon Religion]].''
:''For information on the Colonial dieties in the Re-imagined Series, see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#The Lords of Kobol]].''
:''For information on the nature of God to the Colonials in the Original Series, see [[God (TOS)]].''

The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] worship a deity they call only by the name of '''God'''.

The Cylons justify or attribute much of their actions, including the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|genocidal attack against humanity]], as a requirement of their God.

The Cylons profess a series of commandments given by their God. However, the specific commandments have not fully revealed.

While very knowledgeable of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]], the Cylons feel that the Colonials worship false gods ([[Home, Part I]])<ref>Despite the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|parallelism]] of the Lords of Kobol with the Olympian Gods of real-world Earth mythology, the parallelisms of the [[Wikipedia:Abrahamic conceptions of God|Judeo-Christian God]] are fewer. In "[[Occupation]]", Leoben Conoy prays before a meal, using a prayer that begins with "Heavenly father." When several dying Cylons are found on a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]], they crawl together and [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing|begin a prayer]] that also includes "Heavenly father."</ref>.

==Notable References==

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Leoben Conoy]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]]
* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- William Adama, Miniseries
* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- Leoben Conoy, "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's [[The Destiny|your destiny, and mine]]." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "Procreation, it’s one of God’s commandments, be fruitful. We can’t fulfill it we tried so we decided to <nowiki>[</nowiki>''create [[farms]]''<nowiki>]</nowiki>." -- [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]], "[[The Farm]]"

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Gaius crucifiction pose.jpg|thumb|Baltar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"]]

The Re-imagined Series contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts.

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, Miniseries<ref>According to [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]], the "jesus" line was an [[Wikipedia:ad-lib|ad-lib]] by [[Michael Hogan]]. Therefore, it should not be taken as a serious reference to [[Wikipedia:Christianity|Christianity]].</ref>

* "I was... [Six: ''Am.''] I am..." -- [[Gaius Baltar]], "[[The Hand of God]]" (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- [[Playa Palacios]], "[[Colonial Day]]"

* "I figured, the devil you know..." -- [[Laura Roslin]], "Colonial Day"

* "God is love" -- Number Six, Miniseries, (1 John 4:16)

The "I am" statement in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" is noteworthy because of the self-description that the Judeo-Christian God gives to Moses in the Book of Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]]. The Christian messiah, Jesus, has a series of "I am" statements in the New Testament of the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements. The Hebrew name for God, [[Wikipedia:Yahweh|Yahweh]], is derived from the Hebrew word for "I am" or "to be".

The five priests of the [[Temple of Five]] worshiped a "god whose name must not be spoken." In Jewish tradition, the name of God (Yahweh) is not spoken. In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|deleted scene]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." The 1st commandment requires the faithful have no other god before Yahweh.

A number of elements from the show derive from Mormonism, the religion of series creator [[Glen Larson]]. In particular, the concept of a lost [[Thirteenth Tribe]] is from Mormon legend. The [[Quorum of Twelve]] is also a Mormon concept.

A curious parallel to the series is found in the [[Wikipedia:Messiah|messianic]] figure of the Old Testament, [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]], who led the Israelites out of the Egyptian captivity into the promised land. He actually did not live to lead the Israelites into the promised land because he doubted the water coming from the stone (Numbers 20:12). This parallels the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] of the leader (presumed to be [[Laura Roslin]]) ,who, according to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], will not live to see the promised land of Earth ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The name of [[Pergamus Flats]] (a location on [[New Caprica]]) is similar to [[Wikipedia:Pergamus|Pergamus]], a city mentioned in Revelations 2:12.

==Scientific Explanation==
In the cylon's evolution, they may have developed what some computer scientists call a "
[[Wikipedia: Technological singularity | technological singularity]]" (or just "singularity") where the AI consciousness developed surpasses that of a normal human’s consciousness. The concept of this singularity developed as a generalization of Moore's Law applied to the field of AI, where it is believed that just as technology rapidly improves, so would a conscious AI given that they have tools and abilities to improve themselves. They would then be capable of "recursively augmenting their own mental abilities until they vastly exceed those of their creators," making them a "supercomputer" or super-consciousness or sorts </ref>.

Not only would such a super-consciousness be able to calculate all the best possible permutations or moves, say in a game of chess, but it might even be able to accurately predict human behavior as its consciousness surpasses that of humans. This is evident in Six's manipulative behavior as well as in the careful orchestrated actions of most of the other cylons.

While not possessing the supernatural powers of a god, a singularity would have such predictive and manipulative powers that it could almost be considered as equivalent to a god.

==Official statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about fan speculation that the Cylon God may be Count Iblis in the Re-imagined Series:

: Q: "There's speculation that Count Iblis' counterpart in this series is the as-yet-unseen Cylon God. Is there any possibility that elements of the original series "War of the Gods" storyline may weave themselves into the new series?

:RDM: While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now. The theological construct we've been establishing seems more interesting to me at this point and I don't think Iblis will be part of the current show."

*RDM noted in his [[podcast]] of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", that the original ending of Season One called for actor [[Dirk Benedict]] to appear to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and introduce himself as "God". Numerous prohibiting factors prevented this storyline from making it on camera, chief among them was Moore's confessed inability to write a feasible conclusion to the surprise revelation at the time. Another mitigating factor which influenced Moore to drop the idea was that when he revealed his idea to the other writers, the entire writing team found the idea simply revolting, so Moore acquiesced.

* In an interview at beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_3.html) RDM makes the following statement in response to the question:
:Q: " In “Galactica 1980,” we actually meet the “Imperious Commander” of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

:A: I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you’d be disappointed. They’re in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It’s a fundamental element of their faith. "

== See Also ==

[[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

God (RDM)

2007-06-18T21:29:09Z

DuMan: /* Scientific Explanation */

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|250px|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]]]

:''This page is about God as depicted and worshiped by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons in the Re-imagined Series]].''
:''For information on Cylon religion in general, see [[Cylon Religion]].''
:''For information on the Colonial dieties in the Re-imagined Series, see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#The Lords of Kobol]].''
:''For information on the nature of God to the Colonials in the Original Series, see [[God (TOS)]].''

The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] worship a deity they call only by the name of '''God'''.

The Cylons justify or attribute much of their actions, including the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|genocidal attack against humanity]], as a requirement of their God.

The Cylons profess a series of commandments given by their God. However, the specific commandments have not fully revealed.

While very knowledgeable of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]], the Cylons feel that the Colonials worship false gods ([[Home, Part I]])<ref>Despite the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|parallelism]] of the Lords of Kobol with the Olympian Gods of real-world Earth mythology, the parallelisms of the [[Wikipedia:Abrahamic conceptions of God|Judeo-Christian God]] are fewer. In "[[Occupation]]", Leoben Conoy prays before a meal, using a prayer that begins with "Heavenly father." When several dying Cylons are found on a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]], they crawl together and [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing|begin a prayer]] that also includes "Heavenly father."</ref>.

==Notable References==

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Leoben Conoy]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]]
* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- William Adama, Miniseries
* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- Leoben Conoy, "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's [[The Destiny|your destiny, and mine]]." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "Procreation, it’s one of God’s commandments, be fruitful. We can’t fulfill it we tried so we decided to <nowiki>[</nowiki>''create [[farms]]''<nowiki>]</nowiki>." -- [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]], "[[The Farm]]"

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Gaius crucifiction pose.jpg|thumb|Baltar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"]]

The Re-imagined Series contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts.

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, Miniseries<ref>According to [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]], the "jesus" line was an [[Wikipedia:ad-lib|ad-lib]] by [[Michael Hogan]]. Therefore, it should not be taken as a serious reference to [[Wikipedia:Christianity|Christianity]].</ref>

* "I was... [Six: ''Am.''] I am..." -- [[Gaius Baltar]], "[[The Hand of God]]" (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- [[Playa Palacios]], "[[Colonial Day]]"

* "I figured, the devil you know..." -- [[Laura Roslin]], "Colonial Day"

* "God is love" -- Number Six, Miniseries, (1 John 4:16)

The "I am" statement in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" is noteworthy because of the self-description that the Judeo-Christian God gives to Moses in the Book of Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]]. The Christian messiah, Jesus, has a series of "I am" statements in the New Testament of the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements. The Hebrew name for God, [[Wikipedia:Yahweh|Yahweh]], is derived from the Hebrew word for "I am" or "to be".

The five priests of the [[Temple of Five]] worshiped a "god whose name must not be spoken." In Jewish tradition, the name of God (Yahweh) is not spoken. In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|deleted scene]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." The 1st commandment requires the faithful have no other god before Yahweh.

A number of elements from the show derive from Mormonism, the religion of series creator [[Glen Larson]]. In particular, the concept of a lost [[Thirteenth Tribe]] is from Mormon legend. The [[Quorum of Twelve]] is also a Mormon concept.

A curious parallel to the series is found in the [[Wikipedia:Messiah|messianic]] figure of the Old Testament, [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]], who led the Israelites out of the Egyptian captivity into the promised land. He actually did not live to lead the Israelites into the promised land because he doubted the water coming from the stone (Numbers 20:12). This parallels the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] of the leader (presumed to be [[Laura Roslin]]) ,who, according to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], will not live to see the promised land of Earth ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The name of [[Pergamus Flats]] (a location on [[New Caprica]]) is similar to [[Wikipedia:Pergamus|Pergamus]], a city mentioned in Revelations 2:12.

==Scientific Explanation==
In the cylon's evolution, they may have developed what some computer scientists call a "
[[Wikipedia: Technological singularity | Technological singularity]]" "technological singularity" (or just "singularity") where the AI consciousness developed surpasses that of a normal human’s consciousness. The concept of this singularity developed as a generalization of Moore's Law applied to the field of AI, where it is believed that just as technology rapidly improves, so would a conscious AI given that they have tools and abilities to improve themselves. They would then be capable of "recursively augmenting their own mental abilities until they vastly exceed those of their creators," making them a "supercomputer" or super-consciousness or sorts </ref>.

Not only would such a super-consciousness be able to calculate all the best possible permutations or moves, say in a game of chess, but it might even be able to accurately predict human behavior as its consciousness surpasses that of humans. This is evident in Six's manipulative behavior as well as in the careful orchestrated actions of most of the other cylons.

While not possessing the supernatural powers of a god, a singularity would have such predictive and manipulative powers that it could almost be considered as equivalent to a god.

==Official statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about fan speculation that the Cylon God may be Count Iblis in the Re-imagined Series:

: Q: "There's speculation that Count Iblis' counterpart in this series is the as-yet-unseen Cylon God. Is there any possibility that elements of the original series "War of the Gods" storyline may weave themselves into the new series?

:RDM: While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now. The theological construct we've been establishing seems more interesting to me at this point and I don't think Iblis will be part of the current show."

*RDM noted in his [[podcast]] of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", that the original ending of Season One called for actor [[Dirk Benedict]] to appear to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and introduce himself as "God". Numerous prohibiting factors prevented this storyline from making it on camera, chief among them was Moore's confessed inability to write a feasible conclusion to the surprise revelation at the time. Another mitigating factor which influenced Moore to drop the idea was that when he revealed his idea to the other writers, the entire writing team found the idea simply revolting, so Moore acquiesced.

* In an interview at beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_3.html) RDM makes the following statement in response to the question:
:Q: " In “Galactica 1980,” we actually meet the “Imperious Commander” of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

:A: I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you’d be disappointed. They’re in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It’s a fundamental element of their faith. "

== See Also ==

[[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

God (RDM)

2007-06-18T21:25:47Z

DuMan: /* Scientific Explanation */

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|250px|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]]]

:''This page is about God as depicted and worshiped by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons in the Re-imagined Series]].''
:''For information on Cylon religion in general, see [[Cylon Religion]].''
:''For information on the Colonial dieties in the Re-imagined Series, see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#The Lords of Kobol]].''
:''For information on the nature of God to the Colonials in the Original Series, see [[God (TOS)]].''

The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] worship a deity they call only by the name of '''God'''.

The Cylons justify or attribute much of their actions, including the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|genocidal attack against humanity]], as a requirement of their God.

The Cylons profess a series of commandments given by their God. However, the specific commandments have not fully revealed.

While very knowledgeable of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]], the Cylons feel that the Colonials worship false gods ([[Home, Part I]])<ref>Despite the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|parallelism]] of the Lords of Kobol with the Olympian Gods of real-world Earth mythology, the parallelisms of the [[Wikipedia:Abrahamic conceptions of God|Judeo-Christian God]] are fewer. In "[[Occupation]]", Leoben Conoy prays before a meal, using a prayer that begins with "Heavenly father." When several dying Cylons are found on a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]], they crawl together and [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing|begin a prayer]] that also includes "Heavenly father."</ref>.

==Notable References==

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Leoben Conoy]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]]
* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- William Adama, Miniseries
* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- Leoben Conoy, "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's [[The Destiny|your destiny, and mine]]." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "Procreation, it’s one of God’s commandments, be fruitful. We can’t fulfill it we tried so we decided to <nowiki>[</nowiki>''create [[farms]]''<nowiki>]</nowiki>." -- [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]], "[[The Farm]]"

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Gaius crucifiction pose.jpg|thumb|Baltar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"]]

The Re-imagined Series contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts.

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, Miniseries<ref>According to [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]], the "jesus" line was an [[Wikipedia:ad-lib|ad-lib]] by [[Michael Hogan]]. Therefore, it should not be taken as a serious reference to [[Wikipedia:Christianity|Christianity]].</ref>

* "I was... [Six: ''Am.''] I am..." -- [[Gaius Baltar]], "[[The Hand of God]]" (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- [[Playa Palacios]], "[[Colonial Day]]"

* "I figured, the devil you know..." -- [[Laura Roslin]], "Colonial Day"

* "God is love" -- Number Six, Miniseries, (1 John 4:16)

The "I am" statement in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" is noteworthy because of the self-description that the Judeo-Christian God gives to Moses in the Book of Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]]. The Christian messiah, Jesus, has a series of "I am" statements in the New Testament of the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements. The Hebrew name for God, [[Wikipedia:Yahweh|Yahweh]], is derived from the Hebrew word for "I am" or "to be".

The five priests of the [[Temple of Five]] worshiped a "god whose name must not be spoken." In Jewish tradition, the name of God (Yahweh) is not spoken. In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|deleted scene]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." The 1st commandment requires the faithful have no other god before Yahweh.

A number of elements from the show derive from Mormonism, the religion of series creator [[Glen Larson]]. In particular, the concept of a lost [[Thirteenth Tribe]] is from Mormon legend. The [[Quorum of Twelve]] is also a Mormon concept.

A curious parallel to the series is found in the [[Wikipedia:Messiah|messianic]] figure of the Old Testament, [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]], who led the Israelites out of the Egyptian captivity into the promised land. He actually did not live to lead the Israelites into the promised land because he doubted the water coming from the stone (Numbers 20:12). This parallels the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] of the leader (presumed to be [[Laura Roslin]]) ,who, according to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], will not live to see the promised land of Earth ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The name of [[Pergamus Flats]] (a location on [[New Caprica]]) is similar to [[Wikipedia:Pergamus|Pergamus]], a city mentioned in Revelations 2:12.

==Scientific Explanation==
In the cylon's evolution, they may have developed what some computer scientists call a "technological singularity" (or just "singularity") where the AI consciousness developed surpasses that of a normal human’s consciousness. The concept of this singularity developed as a generalization of Moore's Law applied to the field of AI, where it is believed that just as technology rapidly improves, so would a conscious AI given that they have tools and abilities to improve themselves. They would then be capable of "recursively augmenting their own mental abilities until they vastly exceed those of their creators," making them a "supercomputer" or super-consciousness or sorts </ref>.

Not only would such a super-consciousness be able to calculate all the best possible permutations or moves, say in a game of chess, but it might even be able to accurately predict human behavior as its consciousness surpasses that of humans. This is evident in Six's manipulative behavior as well as in the careful orchestrated actions of most of the other cylons.

While not possessing the supernatural powers of a god, a singularity would have such predictive and manipulative powers that it could almost be considered as equivalent to a god.

==Official statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about fan speculation that the Cylon God may be Count Iblis in the Re-imagined Series:

: Q: "There's speculation that Count Iblis' counterpart in this series is the as-yet-unseen Cylon God. Is there any possibility that elements of the original series "War of the Gods" storyline may weave themselves into the new series?

:RDM: While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now. The theological construct we've been establishing seems more interesting to me at this point and I don't think Iblis will be part of the current show."

*RDM noted in his [[podcast]] of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", that the original ending of Season One called for actor [[Dirk Benedict]] to appear to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and introduce himself as "God". Numerous prohibiting factors prevented this storyline from making it on camera, chief among them was Moore's confessed inability to write a feasible conclusion to the surprise revelation at the time. Another mitigating factor which influenced Moore to drop the idea was that when he revealed his idea to the other writers, the entire writing team found the idea simply revolting, so Moore acquiesced.

* In an interview at beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_3.html) RDM makes the following statement in response to the question:
:Q: " In “Galactica 1980,” we actually meet the “Imperious Commander” of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

:A: I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you’d be disappointed. They’re in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It’s a fundamental element of their faith. "

== See Also ==

[[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

God (RDM)

2007-06-18T21:23:05Z

DuMan: /* Scientific Explanation */

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|250px|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]]]

:''This page is about God as depicted and worshiped by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons in the Re-imagined Series]].''
:''For information on Cylon religion in general, see [[Cylon Religion]].''
:''For information on the Colonial dieties in the Re-imagined Series, see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#The Lords of Kobol]].''
:''For information on the nature of God to the Colonials in the Original Series, see [[God (TOS)]].''

The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] worship a deity they call only by the name of '''God'''.

The Cylons justify or attribute much of their actions, including the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|genocidal attack against humanity]], as a requirement of their God.

The Cylons profess a series of commandments given by their God. However, the specific commandments have not fully revealed.

While very knowledgeable of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]], the Cylons feel that the Colonials worship false gods ([[Home, Part I]])<ref>Despite the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|parallelism]] of the Lords of Kobol with the Olympian Gods of real-world Earth mythology, the parallelisms of the [[Wikipedia:Abrahamic conceptions of God|Judeo-Christian God]] are fewer. In "[[Occupation]]", Leoben Conoy prays before a meal, using a prayer that begins with "Heavenly father." When several dying Cylons are found on a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]], they crawl together and [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing|begin a prayer]] that also includes "Heavenly father."</ref>.

==Notable References==

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Leoben Conoy]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]]
* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- William Adama, Miniseries
* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- Leoben Conoy, "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's [[The Destiny|your destiny, and mine]]." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "Procreation, it’s one of God’s commandments, be fruitful. We can’t fulfill it we tried so we decided to <nowiki>[</nowiki>''create [[farms]]''<nowiki>]</nowiki>." -- [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]], "[[The Farm]]"

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Gaius crucifiction pose.jpg|thumb|Baltar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"]]

The Re-imagined Series contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts.

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, Miniseries<ref>According to [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]], the "jesus" line was an [[Wikipedia:ad-lib|ad-lib]] by [[Michael Hogan]]. Therefore, it should not be taken as a serious reference to [[Wikipedia:Christianity|Christianity]].</ref>

* "I was... [Six: ''Am.''] I am..." -- [[Gaius Baltar]], "[[The Hand of God]]" (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- [[Playa Palacios]], "[[Colonial Day]]"

* "I figured, the devil you know..." -- [[Laura Roslin]], "Colonial Day"

* "God is love" -- Number Six, Miniseries, (1 John 4:16)

The "I am" statement in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" is noteworthy because of the self-description that the Judeo-Christian God gives to Moses in the Book of Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]]. The Christian messiah, Jesus, has a series of "I am" statements in the New Testament of the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements. The Hebrew name for God, [[Wikipedia:Yahweh|Yahweh]], is derived from the Hebrew word for "I am" or "to be".

The five priests of the [[Temple of Five]] worshiped a "god whose name must not be spoken." In Jewish tradition, the name of God (Yahweh) is not spoken. In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|deleted scene]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." The 1st commandment requires the faithful have no other god before Yahweh.

A number of elements from the show derive from Mormonism, the religion of series creator [[Glen Larson]]. In particular, the concept of a lost [[Thirteenth Tribe]] is from Mormon legend. The [[Quorum of Twelve]] is also a Mormon concept.

A curious parallel to the series is found in the [[Wikipedia:Messiah|messianic]] figure of the Old Testament, [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]], who led the Israelites out of the Egyptian captivity into the promised land. He actually did not live to lead the Israelites into the promised land because he doubted the water coming from the stone (Numbers 20:12). This parallels the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] of the leader (presumed to be [[Laura Roslin]]) ,who, according to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], will not live to see the promised land of Earth ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The name of [[Pergamus Flats]] (a location on [[New Caprica]]) is similar to [[Wikipedia:Pergamus|Pergamus]], a city mentioned in Revelations 2:12.

==Scientific Explanation==

In the cylon's evolution, they may have developed what some computer scientists call a "technological singularity" (or just "singularity") where the AI consciousness developed surpasses that of a normal human’s consciousness. The concept of this singularity developed as a generalization of Moore's Law applied to the field of AI, where it is believed that just as technology rapidly improves, so would a conscious AI given that they have tools and abilities to improve themselves. They would then be capable of "recursively augmenting their own mental abilities until they vastly exceed those of their creators," making them a "supercomputer" or super-consciousness or sorts </ref>.

Not only would such a super-consciousness be able to calculate all the best possible permutations or moves, say in a game of chess, but it might even be able to accurately predict human behavior as its consciousness surpasses that of humans. This is evident in Six's manipulative behavior as well as in the careful orchestrated actions of most of the other cylons.

While not possessing the supernatural powers of a god, a singularity would have such predictive and manipulative powers that it could almost be considered as equivalent to a god.

==Official statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about fan speculation that the Cylon God may be Count Iblis in the Re-imagined Series:

: Q: "There's speculation that Count Iblis' counterpart in this series is the as-yet-unseen Cylon God. Is there any possibility that elements of the original series "War of the Gods" storyline may weave themselves into the new series?

:RDM: While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now. The theological construct we've been establishing seems more interesting to me at this point and I don't think Iblis will be part of the current show."

*RDM noted in his [[podcast]] of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", that the original ending of Season One called for actor [[Dirk Benedict]] to appear to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and introduce himself as "God". Numerous prohibiting factors prevented this storyline from making it on camera, chief among them was Moore's confessed inability to write a feasible conclusion to the surprise revelation at the time. Another mitigating factor which influenced Moore to drop the idea was that when he revealed his idea to the other writers, the entire writing team found the idea simply revolting, so Moore acquiesced.

* In an interview at beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_3.html) RDM makes the following statement in response to the question:
:Q: " In “Galactica 1980,” we actually meet the “Imperious Commander” of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

:A: I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you’d be disappointed. They’re in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It’s a fundamental element of their faith. "

== See Also ==

[[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

God (RDM)

2007-06-18T21:21:31Z

DuMan: /* Judeo-Christian References */

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|250px|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]]]

:''This page is about God as depicted and worshiped by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons in the Re-imagined Series]].''
:''For information on Cylon religion in general, see [[Cylon Religion]].''
:''For information on the Colonial dieties in the Re-imagined Series, see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#The Lords of Kobol]].''
:''For information on the nature of God to the Colonials in the Original Series, see [[God (TOS)]].''

The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] worship a deity they call only by the name of '''God'''.

The Cylons justify or attribute much of their actions, including the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|genocidal attack against humanity]], as a requirement of their God.

The Cylons profess a series of commandments given by their God. However, the specific commandments have not fully revealed.

While very knowledgeable of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]], the Cylons feel that the Colonials worship false gods ([[Home, Part I]])<ref>Despite the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|parallelism]] of the Lords of Kobol with the Olympian Gods of real-world Earth mythology, the parallelisms of the [[Wikipedia:Abrahamic conceptions of God|Judeo-Christian God]] are fewer. In "[[Occupation]]", Leoben Conoy prays before a meal, using a prayer that begins with "Heavenly father." When several dying Cylons are found on a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]], they crawl together and [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing|begin a prayer]] that also includes "Heavenly father."</ref>.

==Notable References==

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Leoben Conoy]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]]
* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- William Adama, Miniseries
* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- Leoben Conoy, "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's [[The Destiny|your destiny, and mine]]." -- Leoben Conoy, "Flesh and Bone"
* "Procreation, it’s one of God’s commandments, be fruitful. We can’t fulfill it we tried so we decided to <nowiki>[</nowiki>''create [[farms]]''<nowiki>]</nowiki>." -- [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]], "[[The Farm]]"

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Gaius crucifiction pose.jpg|thumb|Baltar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"]]

The Re-imagined Series contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts.

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, Miniseries<ref>According to [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]], the "jesus" line was an [[Wikipedia:ad-lib|ad-lib]] by [[Michael Hogan]]. Therefore, it should not be taken as a serious reference to [[Wikipedia:Christianity|Christianity]].</ref>

* "I was... [Six: ''Am.''] I am..." -- [[Gaius Baltar]], "[[The Hand of God]]" (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- [[Playa Palacios]], "[[Colonial Day]]"

* "I figured, the devil you know..." -- [[Laura Roslin]], "Colonial Day"

* "God is love" -- Number Six, Miniseries, (1 John 4:16)

The "I am" statement in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" is noteworthy because of the self-description that the Judeo-Christian God gives to Moses in the Book of Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]]. The Christian messiah, Jesus, has a series of "I am" statements in the New Testament of the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements. The Hebrew name for God, [[Wikipedia:Yahweh|Yahweh]], is derived from the Hebrew word for "I am" or "to be".

The five priests of the [[Temple of Five]] worshiped a "god whose name must not be spoken." In Jewish tradition, the name of God (Yahweh) is not spoken. In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|deleted scene]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." The 1st commandment requires the faithful have no other god before Yahweh.

A number of elements from the show derive from Mormonism, the religion of series creator [[Glen Larson]]. In particular, the concept of a lost [[Thirteenth Tribe]] is from Mormon legend. The [[Quorum of Twelve]] is also a Mormon concept.

A curious parallel to the series is found in the [[Wikipedia:Messiah|messianic]] figure of the Old Testament, [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]], who led the Israelites out of the Egyptian captivity into the promised land. He actually did not live to lead the Israelites into the promised land because he doubted the water coming from the stone (Numbers 20:12). This parallels the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] of the leader (presumed to be [[Laura Roslin]]) ,who, according to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], will not live to see the promised land of Earth ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The name of [[Pergamus Flats]] (a location on [[New Caprica]]) is similar to [[Wikipedia:Pergamus|Pergamus]], a city mentioned in Revelations 2:12.

===Scientific Explanation===

In the cylon's evolution, they may have developed what some computer scientists call a "technological singularity" (or just "singularity") where the AI consciousness developed surpasses that of a normal human’s consciousness. The concept of this singularity developed as a generalization of Moore's Law applied to the field of AI, where it is believed that just as technology rapidly improves, so would a conscious AI given that they have tools and abilities to improve themselves. They would then be capable of "recursively augmenting their own mental abilities until they vastly exceed those of their creators," making them a "supercomputer" or super-consciousness or sorts.

Not only would such a super-consciousness be able to calculate all the best possible permutations or moves, say in a game of chess, but it might even be able to accurately predict human behavior as its consciousness surpasses that of humans. This is evident in Six's manipulative behavior as well as in the careful orchestrated actions of most of the other cylons.

While not possessing the supernatural powers of a god, a singularity would have such predictive and manipulative powers that it could almost be considered as equivalent to a god.

==Official statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about fan speculation that the Cylon God may be Count Iblis in the Re-imagined Series:

: Q: "There's speculation that Count Iblis' counterpart in this series is the as-yet-unseen Cylon God. Is there any possibility that elements of the original series "War of the Gods" storyline may weave themselves into the new series?

:RDM: While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now. The theological construct we've been establishing seems more interesting to me at this point and I don't think Iblis will be part of the current show."

*RDM noted in his [[podcast]] of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", that the original ending of Season One called for actor [[Dirk Benedict]] to appear to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and introduce himself as "God". Numerous prohibiting factors prevented this storyline from making it on camera, chief among them was Moore's confessed inability to write a feasible conclusion to the surprise revelation at the time. Another mitigating factor which influenced Moore to drop the idea was that when he revealed his idea to the other writers, the entire writing team found the idea simply revolting, so Moore acquiesced.

* In an interview at beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_3.html) RDM makes the following statement in response to the question:
:Q: " In “Galactica 1980,” we actually meet the “Imperious Commander” of the Cylons who turns out to be the Devil in the guise of a humanoid. Will we ever meet the maker of the Cylons in this version?

:A: I think if we ever found an answer to why the Cylons have a god or who the god is--you know, the guy steps out from behind the curtain--I think you’d be disappointed. They’re in an interesting place in that their faith is as legitimate as the human faith. Human beings have souls given by the gods, and Cylons have a soul given by their one true god and that has to be just as valid. That means there is a plan for their soul and something for them after they die too. It’s a fundamental element of their faith. "

== See Also ==

[[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]