:''For information on this character's [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Cain (TOS)]].

{{Character Data
|photo=CainH.jpg
|age=49-50<ref>According to the script for "[[Razor]]", young Helena Cain was nine years old at the time of the [[Battle of Tauron]]. See: [[Sources: Helena Cain]].</ref>
|colony=[[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]]
|birthname=Helena Cain
|callsign=
|seen= Pegasus (episode)
|pseen=Pegasus
|death= Shot by [[Gina Inviere]] aboard ''Pegasus'', in Cain's quarters ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).
|parents= [[Saundra Cain|Mother]] and [[Cain (father)|father]] killed in the first [[Cylon War]] <ref name="watcher-forbes">{{cite_web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/11/battlestar-ga-1.html|title='Battlestar Galactica: Razor' cuts to the heart of the matter|date=20 November 2007|accessdate=22 November 2007|last=Ryan|first=Maureen|format=|language=}}</ref>
|siblings= [[Lucy Cain]]† (killed in the first Cylon War)
|children=
|marital status= Relationship with Gina Inviere
|role=Commanding Officer, [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''
|rank=Rear Admiral
|actor=[[Michelle Forbes]] [[Kyra Scott]] (young Cain)
|serial=866931<ref>Serial number is from [[:Image:Cain's dogtag serial.jpg|her dogtags]].</ref>
|cylon=
|name=
}}
Admiral '''Helena Cain''' hails from the colony [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]], and is the commanding officer of the [[Mercury class battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. She is a hard woman, unafraid of making difficult decisions and unflinching in her will to do what she sees as right. These traits sometimes compel her to feel that she has been left no choice but to take controversial, unpopular and morally questionable choices.

==Biography==
===Childhood===
Helena Cain was born during the first [[Cylon War]]. On the last day of the war, Tauron was under attack by Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] and [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurion]] ground forces. Her sister [[Lucy Cain]] and her [[Cain (father)|father]] were pinned down in a building under heavy fire. When her father was injured trying to escape, he told Helena to get Lucy to a shelter, before dying. The two made it out of the building, but outside Helena panicked, left Lucy in a field of rubble and ran away to hide in a container. When Cain came out again after the Cylons retreated, she found only her sister's doll on the ground ("[[Razor]]", extended version). These traumatic events were formative for her future.

===Cylon attack and guerrilla warfare===

[[Image:Cain and gina.jpg|thumb|right|Cain dining with [[Gina Inviere]].]]

When ''Pegasus'' is scheduled for an extensive overhaul at the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]], Cain has regular meetings with [[Gina Inviere]], a civilian contractor working for the [[Ministry of Defense]], to work out the details of the retrofit. The two eventually become romantically involved.

Shortly before the [[Cylon attack]], Lieutenant [[Kendra Shaw]] is assigned to the battlestar as Cain's personal aide. When the lieutenant fails to make it to [[CIC]] immediately after her arrival, Cain chews her out in front of the crew, but breaks into laughter after Shaw leaves, showing that she isn't always as hard as she appears to be.

When the Cylons [[Fall of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards|attack the shipyards]], Cain is in her quarters, working out and going over efficiency reports. She makes it to CIC and immediately orders the battlestar unmoored. When the navigational computer is discovered to be offline and nuclear missiles are inbound, Cain orders a [[blind jump]] to escape certain destruction. With many of her crew dead and the destruction of the Twelve Colonies confirmed, she holds a speech vowing to take revenge on the Cylons. However, in a private dinner with her XO [[Jurgen Belzen]], [[Jack Fisk]], Inviere and Shaw, she promises that she has no intention to unnecessarily waste lives or resources in an emotional quest for revenge.

Shortly later, a Cylon communications relay is detected, which the crew believes to be an easy target. On arrival however, it turns out the target is a Cylon staging area, filled with 15 squadrons of [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]]s. Belzen urges Cain to recover their Vipers and retreat, but instead she seemingly forgets her earlier promise and orders the launch of all remaining fighters, which Belzen refuses to do in the face of such odds. Cain asks the XO for his side arm, and shoots him in the head in front of the crew. She then turned to Fisk and orders him to launch the Vipers, which he does. At the same time, Inviere allows a group of [[Cylon Centurion]]s to board the ship, causing many deaths. Shaw reveals her as a Cylon agent in CIC and Cain orders her arrest. ''Pegasus'' manages to win the [[Battle of the Communications Relay|battle]], but with staggering losses.

Cain is deeply stung by Inviere's betrayal, her feelings toward her erstwhile lover turned into hatred and scorn. She gives [[Alastair Thorne]] free rein in interrogating her for information, suggesting "pain ... degradation, fear, shame." This sets the tone for the interrogations, ultimately leading to measures such as gang rape.

When ''Pegasus'' happens upon a small civilian fleet, Admiral Cain decides to strip it of resources and personnel, including their FTL drives. The civilians, however, refuse the cooperate. Resistance is particularly high on the ''[[Scylla]]''. When a boarding team led by Shaw and Fisk fails to make the civilians cooperate, Cain orders to shoot the families of every conscript who refuses to obey. Shaw fires the first shot and eventually 10 people are killed, thus breaking the resistance. Cain is very impressed by Shaw's actions in the civilian standoff and promotes her to the rank of captain, explaining that Shaw has the qualities of a "razor"; someone who is able to shut down all emotions and inhibitions in battle in order to survive.

Despite the impossible odds, Cain intends to sustain a campaign of guerrilla warfare against the occupying Cylon forces. She then led the battlestar away from the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], following a Cylon fleet that trails what they discovered as the fellow battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' ("[[Razor]]", "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]").

===Galactica===
Upon meeting up with Commander [[William Adama]]'s [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] six months later, she assumes command and transfers personnel from ''Galactica'' to ''Pegasus'', including [[Lee Adama]] and [[Kara Thrace]], indicating that Adama has let military discipline become too lax. Cain is more interested in fighting the Cylons, seemingly oblivious to the point that she and the ships around her are all that was left of the human race, whose survival is more paramount than offensive assaults. While Adama initially welcomes such attacks against a mysterious Cylon force that followed the Fleet (to stop it from following them), his attitude begins to cool about Cain's very strict and unmerciful leadership.
[[image:caingalact.jpg|left|Admiral Cain, meeting up with the crew of ''Galactica''.|thumb]]

Cain's actions also raise concerns with President [[Laura Roslin]]. Cain recognizes Roslin and her former role as Secretary of Education. After the Fleet command transfer from Adama to Cain, Roslin makes several attempts to call Cain to request supplies for the civilian fleet, but all of Roslin's calls are ignored.

===Court-martial, standoff===
After the suspect fatal assault of one of her crew members, Lieutenant Thorne, Cain arrests Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] and Lieutenant [[Karl Agathon]] and has them flown to ''Pegasus'', under Adama's protest, since traditionally a trial is held on the ship where an incident has occurred. Cain uses ''Galactica'''s log against Adama when he asks for a tribunal; Cain notes that Adama dismissed the last council unilaterally when the verdict did not suit him. Cain summarily court-martials the prisoners herself in a matter of hours, sentencing them to death. Commander Adama is far from pleased, and orders an assault crew to head for ''Pegasus'' to bring his men back. Cain responds by deploying her squadrons of advanced Viper Mark VIIs against Adama's museum collection of Viper Mark IIs in a tense standoff ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

The tense game of chicken that begins is ended by Starbuck, flying the [[Blackbird]] as she returns from her unofficial recon mission on the unknown Cylon ship. Starbuck transmits the pictures she took of the [[Resurrection Ship]] back to ''Pegasus'''s CIC. Upon Thrace's return to ''Pegasus'', Cain is so impressed with her performance that she promotes Thrace to Captain and ''Pegasus'' [[CAG]], replacing the competent but uncreative and inflexible Captain [[Cole Taylor|Taylor]]. Cain tasks Starbuck with planning the joint strike on the Resurrection Ship.

===Attack on the Resurrection Ship, and assassination===
[[Image:Gina-Cain.jpg|thumb|Admiral Cain held at gun-point by [[Gina Inviere|her Cylon prisoner]].]]

After Captain Thrace briefs both Adama, Apollo, and Cain on her plan to attack the Resurrection Ship, Adama pulls Starbuck aside and outlines a plan to assassinate Cain following the attack. At the same time, Cain instructs [[Jack Fisk]] to lead a detachment of marines to "terminate Adama's command" after the battle ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

When the moment arrives, neither commander decides to send their execution orders, leaving Thrace and Fisk visibly relieved. Cain survives Adama's plan, ironically, because Adama solicits advice from [[Sharon Agathon|the second copy of Sharon Valerii]], who reminds him of his decommissioning speech that asked whether humanity asked itself if it deserved to survive ([[Miniseries]]). That is, Adama's actions in assassinating Cain would be a good example of why humanity deserved what the Cylons dealt to them so many months ago. Although it may have been due to realizing Adama's value as a commander during the battle, the reasons for Cain staying her hand were never revealed, and remain a topic of debate among fans.

Unfortunately for Cain, shortly after Adama's window to assassinate Cain had passed, [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] helps Inviere escape from the brig. Inviere makes her way to Cain's quarters and shoots Cain at point blank range. A soldier to the last, Cain's final words are "[[Frak]] you."

Cain's funeral is given full military honors, with Fisk and Thrace giving eulogies. Though Thrace only knew Cain briefly, she obviously admired the woman, stating "We were safer with her than we are without." ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]). Several months later, Adama tells his son that he can't find any faults in Cain's tactical decisions, and refuses to pass judgment on her, because he has people to keep him in check when he is in danger of going down a similar path, and never had to go through Cain's situation in the first place ([[Razor]]).

== Notes ==

{{sourcebox}}

=== Original Series nods ===

*Helena Cain is inspired by the character of Commander [[Cain (TOS)|Cain]] from the original ''[[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Battlestar Galactica]]'', portrayed by the late [[Lloyd Bridges]].

*Unlike Commander Cain in the Original Series, Admiral Cain is a superior officer to Commander William Adama. The Original Series's Adama held a higher rank than Cain, and relieved him of command for a time in the two part episode, "[[The Living Legend, Part I|The Living Legend]]".

=== Behind-the-Scenes ===

*Actress Michelle Forbes said on her character, "She’s lost perspective. People ask, ‘Is she insane? Is she psychotic?’ I hope that’s not how she came across because that was never the intention. I think some individuals can appear to be that way, but this is a woman who did what she had to do in order to survive during some very brutal conflicts. Along the way, Cain lost her sense of judgment as well as her sense of reason and rationale. That was all very interesting for me to play. Usually in TV you’re given one characteristic and you dare not stray from that, so it was neat to have such a difficult, fascinating woman to play. In "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I|Resurrection Ship]]" it really comes to light the path of sadism that these people have gone down and we’re fully able to see exactly what happened to this group aboard the Pegasus. There were some pretty difficult choices they had to make, too, in regard to the Cylon prisoner Gina and that whole dynamic." [http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=5201]

*Forbes guest starred as Dara Timicin in the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode "[[MemoryAlpha:Half a Life|Half a Life]]" and had a recurring role as Ensign [[MemoryAlpha:Ro Laren|Ro Laren]] during the last three seasons of ''Star Trek: The Next Generation''. ''Battlestar Galactica'' executive producer [[Ronald D. Moore]], also a ''TNG'' veteran, wrote for her character in the episodes "[[MemoryAlpha:Disaster|Disaster]]" and "[[MemoryAlpha:The Next Phase|The Next Phase]]".

=== Production ===

*Cain's given name, Helena, was not spoken in dialogue initially, but was posted in episode summaries on Scifi.com (initially misspelled as "Nelena"). Her name is first spoken by Colonel [[Jurgen Belzen]] in "[[Razor]]".

*Cain's habit of expediting meetings by conducting them without chairs is borrowed from UN Ambassador [[Wikipedia:John R. Bolton|John R. Bolton]] (Source: [[Podcast:Pegasus#Act 2|Podcast:Pegasus]]). Within the show, the lack of chairs is said to stem from her preference to stand because of her back problems ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

=== Separate continuity ===

* In [[Dynamite Entertainment]]'s [[comic]] books, Helena Cain and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' make a one-shot appearance in ''[[Battlestar Galactica: Pegasus]]'', and she is mentioned again in ''[[Battlestar Galactica: Origins 6]]''. In ''Origins 6'', Captain [[Alexa Cain|Alexa "Pugnacious" Cain]] is noted as Helena's mother, who had divorced her husband well before the [[Battle of Tauron]]—the last battle of the First Cylon War. However, "Razor" makes it clear that Helena's mother was named "[[Saundra Cain|Saundra]]", and that she was on [[Hypatia]], [[Tauron]] at the time of that last battle, which is when she died.

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown)'' |title=Commanding Officer, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=[[Jack Fisk]]}}
{{end box}}

{{Dead Characters}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Cain, Helena}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
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[[Category:People from Tauron]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Helena Cain]]
[[fr:Helena Cain]]

Battlestar Galactica: Origins 6

2008-11-13T04:25:28Z

DrBat: /* Alternate covers */

{{separate continuity|universe=RDM|cont=Dynamite Comics}}

{{Comic Data
| image = BSGOrig06PhotoCov.jpg
| title=Origins #6
| series=Dynamite
| issueno=6
| episode=
| writer= [[Robert Napton]]
| penciller= [[Jonathan Lau]]
| inker=
| colorist=
| letterer=
| editor=
| cover= Jonathan Lau
| published= March 2008
| collects=
| collected=
| reprints=
| reprinted=
| isbn=
| prev=[[Battlestar Galactica: Origins 5]]
| next=[[Battlestar Galactica: Origins 7]]
}}
==Plot==
The second issue of the four-part miniseries that explores the life of [[William Adama]]. Starting several years since the [[Battlestar Galactica: Origins 5|previous issue]], Lieutenant William "Husker" Adama continues serving aboard ''[[Atlantia (RDM)|Atlantia]]'', before his promotion to Captain and assignment to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''.

==Summary==
*Two years after the the end of the [[First Cylon War]], Adama approaches ''[[Atlantia (RDM)|Atlantia]]'' for his thousandth landing. Because of the occasion, Adama has a special LSO: a man name [[Ratchet]]. As Ratchet signals for Adama to slow down, Adama instead accelerates his [[Viper Mk II|Viper]] before landing.
*In the commander's office, Adama receives captain rank insignia before being told that he is being mustered out of the Fleet, which he is told is due to the cutbacks in the military's budget. His commander tells him to make peace with the decision.
*In the Junior Officers Quarters, Adama cleans out his locker, finding a picture of him with [[Alexa Cain]] and has a flashback to events six weeks after the end of the war. In the beginning of his flashback, Adama and Cain play a fierce game of [[pyramid (RDM)|pyramid]] where sexual tensions apparently mount.
*Aboard ''Galactica'', Adama and Cain are told that a group of [[Annihilators]] are located at a base codenamed [[Trinity Base|Trinity]]—the same base that Adama and [[Lucky]] flew over in their [[Stealth Viper]]s during the war.
*After the briefing, Cain demands to know whether Adama's head is in the game, having noticed Adama's visible reaction in the briefing and hearing things from a pilot named [[Houseman]]. Adama replies that it could be because he made a "bad call," and Cain reassures him that everyone has had such moments.
*Suddenly, a Cylon Heavy Raider jumps in close to ''Galactica''. The commander realizes that they are Annihilators and calls for the alert Vipers to be launched.
*The Raider lands in the starboard flight pod and [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurions]] disembark, killing personnel as they make their way through the ship. ''Galactica'''s commander orders a distress call to be sent out.
*As Cain and Adama make their way through the ship, they encounter a group of officers before the Cylons disable the lights and phones. The group makes their way to a small arms locker, knowing that there are Cylons heading their way.
*The battlestars ''[[Ulysses]]'' and ''[[Cerberus]]'', along with their battlestar groups arrive to aid ''Galactica'' while Cylons enter [[Aft Damage Control]], killing everyone there before proceeding to vent compartments to space. In the weapons locker, Cain orders everyone to put on EVA suits.
*Meanwhile, the Cylons arm a nuclear warhead and use it to heavily damage one of the other battlestars. As Cain and Adama's group approach Aft Damage Control, they encounter scores of dead crew members. They arrive at Aft Damage Control, only to find a Centurion guarding the hatch and at least four others inside.
*Cain and Adama have only three explosive rounds between them, not enough to kill all the Centurions. Knowing that she may die, Cain tells Adama to deliver two letters in her locker: one for her parents, one for her daughter [[Helena Cain|Helena]].
*On Cain's signal, the group attacks, killing one Centurion immediately. The remaining Centurions retaliate, leading to an intense battle between both sides. Adama tosses a small bomb into Aft Damage Control and detonates it by hitting it with gunfire, destroying the two remaining Centurions inside.
*As Adama restores air flow to the [[CIC]], a damaged Centurion impales Cain on its blade before Adama finishes it off. Adama goes over to a dieing Cain, telling him why she wanted to be part of the mission to stop the Annihilators: she felt guilty about not being with her family on [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]]. Her last words to Adama are a reminder to send her letters.
*The flashback ends as Adama is told that a [[Raptor]] is ready to take him off ''Atlantia''. Adama boards the Raptor and steels himself to face an uncertain future.

== Notes ==
* As shown in "[[Razor]]", William Adama was a lieutenant at the time of the first Cylon War, not a captain.
*The Heavy Raider in this issue is almost identical to the later [[Heavy Raider]], although the cockpit design is more in line with contemporary Raiders. It may also lack the modern Raider's forward guns, however, the artwork makes it impossible to be clear on the issue.
*Many of the events that occurred during ''Galactica'''s boarding are similar to those in "[[Valley of Darkness]]". However, the Cylons here are more successful than in the episode, since they manage to vent ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> atmosphere and use the ship's weapons to damage a Colonial warship before being destroyed.
*Another difference between the comic and "[[Valley of Darkness]]" is the fact that the Cylons disable the phones in the comic, despite them being sound powered.
*The sidearms used by Colonial personnel resemble the design used since season 2 of the series, instead of the version that was seen in the "[[Razor Flashbacks]]".
*Helena Cain's mother is named [[Saundra Cain]], not [[Alexa Cain]].

== Alternate covers ==

<gallery>
Image:BSGOrig06Laucov.jpg|[[Jonathan Lau]] cover.
Image:BSGOrig06PhotoCov.jpg|Photo cover featuring [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[William Adama]].
</gallery>

== External links ==

* [http://dynamiteentertainment.com/htmlfiles/p-C109505.html ''Battlestar Galactica: Origins 6'' - Regular Edition] at Dynamite Entertainment

{{comic list|series=Origins}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Comics]]
[[Category:Comics (RDM)]]
[[Category:Dynamite Comics]]
[[Category:Dynamite Comics (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)

2008-10-08T02:20:19Z

DrBat: /* Bisexuality */

Talk:The Ties That Bind/Archive 1

2008-09-29T20:48:23Z

DrBat: /* Main image */ new section

Is this title a hint to [[Saul Tigh|everyone's favourite alcoholic colonel]]? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:23, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
:That would be "The Tighs That Bind". hehe. Like "Tigh me up, Tigh me down". That was a nice play on words. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:22, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

== SG1 thing? ==

Is the SG-1 thing really necessary? After all, I'm sure that here are tons of television shows that have similar names -- for instance, I'm sure that there are shows that have episodes named "Faith". To be honest, I find nothing significant in that note. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 13:22, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
:Agreed. Usually it's simple title that get reused often, but since this is a fixed expression it's not so surprising. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:25, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::Didn't know "The Ties That Bind" was like a common expression (one of the downsides of being a near-native, but still non-native, English speaker), I was under the impression it was simply a Biblical quote. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:49, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
:::The origin is of course that bible quote, but if you google it, you'll also find a Bruce Springsteen song and many news articles that use it. For example "The ties that bind China, Russia and Iran" or "Sony Cuts the Ties That Bind Walkman" or "Technologies to untie the ties that bind". And for TV, an episode of "The OC" shares that name too, so Stargate shouldn't be singled out. We already pay way too much attention to it with cast notes. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:55, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::::Right. I just didn't know TTTB was a common expression. Removing. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:59, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

== Image ==

May I suggest taking some image that is a) smaller b) oriented horizontally, not vertically? Current image breaks s.4 episode guide and is a bit too big. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:It's already scaled down and it might not be so obvious once that page is filled with content. The only other interesting image would be [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=1 this] (I can get a high-res version). Or we could crop the current one at her waist. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::My vote goes to [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=1 this], right. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::: It depends, because Cally... ahem. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: Then crop it at least if it must be Cally. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I say [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=3 this one] How many do have Cheif and Tory? We have lots with Roslin and crew. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 03:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, it's not like there is a shortage of things about the Final Five, either on screen or online, so I chose pictures that are about something else. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Mixing it up is good. I been thinking about making them all random <code>{{#random:image1.jpg,etc}}</code> [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 15:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== Orion ==
At about 28 minutes, when the other baseships jump in, the constellation of Orion is clearly visible in the background. Worth mentioning on the entry?--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 10:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely. Not only did you see Orion, but also Taurus and the Pleiades - and most importantly, as you would see them if you were within ~50 light years of Earth. --[[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 12:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:I think that this is also a tribute to Blade Runner: "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. '''Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.''' I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die." very cool! --[[User:Zenzero|Zenzero]], 30 April 2008
::I actually just saw Blade Runner a few days ago, and I think that that is a interesting, albeit coincidental, connection![[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 20:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

== Acts vs. Location Format ==
I feel that this guide would be much easier to read and follow if it was in a Location format instead of by Acts. IMHO, YMMV, ect. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah. that's the way I orginally had it setup before spenc uploaded his thing :P [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 16:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::Sorry, didn't look at the history. It just seems harder to read this way. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Hey. Wasn't blaming ya. :) I gues I'll pick apart his summary and switch everything around. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 16:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::We have most of the guides in act format since that's how the episode translates. While this may be easy to read, it also throws the order of the story out of whack. I figure we have to do this on a case-by-case given the number of scene shifts, so.... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Not so much scene shifts, but number of ''independent'' story lines. Sometimes, there are two different settings, but heavily intercut and dependent on each other. Like the stuff in "The Eye of Jupiter" and "Rapture". One the other hand, the Caprica, Kobol and Cylon story lines stand for themselves and can have an own section. That's how we always did it. Nothing new :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Nicky Cylon or Human ==

I wonder if this episode shows how the story hits on pure fiction rather than sci-fi with the case of Nicky being a cylon. Nicky is a boy, which would mean there has to be a Y chromosome. If Tyrol is truly a Cylon, then Cally could only have a female child. They stated earlier in the series that the skinjobs could not reproduce without human donors. Reading the sci-fi forums and original series (way back to deception to the Cylons/Baltar by Specter, and how the Beings of Light 'try' not to interfere) may provide a spoiler to what is to come next from this episode if it stays on the sci-fi side. If it goes fiction, maybe it be worth noting what made Nicky a boy and a cylon before someone yells "that's not sci-fi!" (The Science Note: women can reproduce women without men in genetic experiments of fertilization, but women do not carry/make the Y chromosome to reproduce a male.) (Podcast note: [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:Frak_Party_Q_and_A#hybridnick]) [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 21:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:They did not state anything about human donors. They stated that Cylons could not reproduce with each other, and could not reproduce with humans unless there was love. Cally and Tyrol love each other, imperfect as their marriage might be, so Nicky was conceived like Hera. No reason he shouldn't have a Cylon Y chromosome. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::RDM has stated the the final five are fundamentally different than the others, so what is know about the significant seven may not apply. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Plus, what is known about the signficant seven doesn't rule it out. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::So, we can say that Nicky is fundamentally different when compared to Hera. The plot just grows more from this episode about them and brings questions, but the difference can be noted on the Nicky or Hera page. I was going to add something to the article, but I felt it was better to wait another episode. Thanks -- [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 03:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::For now, we don't know of any fundamental differences between Nicky and Hera yet. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 03:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Inappropriate use of Point of Order? ==

According to Robert's Rules of Order, a Point of Order is raised if the rules of order have apparently been broken. In this case, rules don't seem to have been broken, and Lee is really just interrupting to bring up his own issues (which could be construed as out of order). The closest motion that I could find is a Request for Any Other Privilege, which he would then use to try to bring up a more pressing issue, but this is still an iffy case. [[User:Ctetc2007|Ctetc2007]] 10:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:Standing-up at the table is a request to yield. The one who has the floor is the one who can decide to yield the floor. If Lee continued without the floor being yielded to him, then it would be out of order. Notice that Lee does ask for the floor to yield. The point of order is to get the answer to yield the floor and to quiet everybody else that does not have the floor. Roslin immediately tabled the issue that Lee brought up. Lee sits down, and the floor is returned. He could have requested an immediate call to vote to handle the issue, but typically it would have to be by some disastrous or emergency situation to call to vote on non-agenda items. Why didn't he make that case at that time? [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 14:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Interesting Comments about Orion Sighting ==
The [http://community.livejournal.com/battlestar_blog/992976.html post] might be worth reading. Didn't know about the [[w:Ophiuchus |thirteenth sign]] until now. Any astrophysicists on board to judge this info? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

:This is a great little read (the link above). Even the bit about the Cylons of Greece (an aditional link once there). I was wondering, has anyone seen/made a super-speculative galactic map of where the fleet might be? especially now that with being able to pin point the rough neighbourhood the fleet is now in.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 12:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:One thing about this - if the arguement in that article was accurate (in terms of which direction the Fleet s approaching from), the Sun would be a bright naked eye star in Orion (roughly about mag 3), and would be stick out like a sore thumb. However - in terms of proximity, ~25 L.Y. away would seem about right. -- [[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 15:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== Monitoring Launch Tubes ==

The reason nobody notices the launch tubes being used is probably due to the Galactica's lack of automation. There's no central computer to track these things, and the over-worked state of Galactica's repair crew probably means that the logs that would track these things (assuming there's a counter at all) aren't being kept properly.

Of course, this doesn't explain why there wouldn't be guards.

— [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 01:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:Well, at least they already established that nobody was paying attention to the launch tubes in last season's "[[Collaborators]]"... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::Poor Jammer. :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 05:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

: This might be indeed a flaw by design, but one that they should have fixed after the first Cylon war. The Cylons boarded ships via airlocks and launch tubes and used them as weapon to vent the crew out of the ship. In such a situation the security team etc. should know where to look for the enemy. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 10:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:Well, would YOU want to guard the launch tubes? 99% of the time you'd just be standing there in an empty control room (at least at night), not to mention the fact that since there are quite a few launch tubes, you'd be tying up a significant number of personnel doing so. It seems like it'd be easier in terms of manpower to have guards somewhere in the hangar deck (potentially in intersection of the hangar deck(s) and the interior of the ship). By guarding the choke points, you'd be covered against somebody coming from any of the launch tubes, and from the landing bay openings as well. Though obviously the biggest reason the launch tubes are untended are for dramatic purposes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::Nobody said there had to be ''humans'' watching the launch tubes, you'd be 'watching' them electronically, just like building security monitors elevator movements. If they did that and logged all activity, they'd find out Cally's launch tube was spaced from the control room and know she didn't commit suicide. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, that Cally did not commit suicide is something that a good criminal investigator would find out anyway - Cally has to trigger the launch tube from inside by use this little key. This key should still be in the launch tube. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 14:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::True, but you know what happens when you put "machines" in charge of things... Closed circuit monitoring would of course be sensible. And if they wanted to get into all that, they could alter the logs and substitute in bogus footage, etc. When your conspiracy includes the Chief and the XO, there's not a lot of limits to what you could cover up. I guess they didn't want to get into that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think the Chief and the XO were in on this. And as to the key, wouldn't it be spaced too? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, I meant more of the executions in Collaborators. As for the key, it'd probably be "locked" into place when turned to the activated position. That, or you'd be losing keys whenever you did that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::Whenever you did what? Flushing a launch tube with yourself inside? How often does that happen? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::There are probably moving parts in the non-pressurized areas of the launch tube that need occasional maintenance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I myself have decided to suspend disbelief on this particular issue. I find it fairly unbelievable that there isn't an automated system that would at least inform CIC that a "launch" had taken place. Also, this is a military ship on a war footing; I'm sure they have plenty of bored marines who could be patrolling the ship, especially sensitive areas like launch tubes and airlocks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 20:07, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well it kinda depends on how detailed the data is that arrives at CIC: they may know ''that'' the launch tube was flushed, but they may not be able to tell whether it was operated from the inside or the outside (which would be of little use outside murder investigations). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Taurus ==
Some observant individual has noticed that Taurus is visible in this Orion [http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=taurusqv3.jpg screen cap] (Orion is still visible in the lower left), putting the Cylon fleet pretty close to Earth. Is this observation correct? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
:Oh, that's just bull ;) -- [[User:Whytwolf|Whyte Wolf]] 20:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

== Wired ==

''Wired'' credits the Battlestar Wiki for the photo they use for this blog, [http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/04/galacticas-thir.html Galactica's 'Ties That Bind' Is All Fraked Up].--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 01:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

== Question about Nebula effects on the Callster ==

So this question was added to the questions section: ''Why did reaching the Ionian Nebula have such a negative effect on Cally (lack of sleep, depression)?''

The thing about this question is that it had nothing to do (directly) with the Ionian Nebula affecting Cally negatively... Galen Tyrol's the one that's been causing some of the problems since their marriage, as we've seen in "[[A Day in the Life]]", although the root problem is that they're both pretty incompatible, which came to a head pretty much after the revelation in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]".

I'm bringing this up here because I removed the question earlier, but it was re-added, and instead of sparking an edit where the entire questions section was blanked (as was the case after I removed the question the first time), I figure I'd discuss it here first... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:Agreed. There is a time correlation obviously, but no causality. Unfortunately, these days some people are too quick to search for an outside explanation within the story and events, instead of looking at what the characters themselves go through. That just creates pointless implications. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Launch tube window ==

Has the reference to this been removed for a reason? I'm sure the article used to mention that there can't be a window in that location. (Did its illogical appearance really annoy anyone else as well?) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 10:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:Still there. Last item in the Notes section. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::Oops, my bad :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 12:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::You know, it might just be an hallucination... Given that Cally was basically in an unstable state of mind, she might have just been imagining that there was a window there. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

== Another constellation? ==

I think I've found another constellation, but I'm not sure how right I am and how appropriate it may be considering the repeats of Orion in later episodes.

When it was first mentioned that Orion ''may be'' in Cally's look out the window, I went to check it, but couldn't see Orion. However, around about where the reflection of Cally's cheek is, there is a group of stars I believe may be [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crux Crux] (also known as the Southern Cross, an important navigational constellation in the southern hemisphere). To the left of the cross (up when looking at the screen) are two bright stars, which may be the Pointers.

But there's a couple of problems. First is the later reappearance of Orion as a point of reference. Second is that the Pointers are too close together, but that issue can be circumvented by having The Fleet in a position where ''most'' of the stars line up but the Pointers appear closer together.

Am I on to something, or am I reading too much into the random dot patterns normally used for starfields ? [[User:Saberwyn|Saberwyn]] 10:47, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

== Main image ==

Shouldn't the image be one w/Cally in it, since this was essentially her episode? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 20:48, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)

2008-08-23T16:21:26Z

DrBat: /* Homosexuality */

Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)

2008-08-23T16:21:05Z

DrBat: /* Homosexuality */

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.

2008-08-22T23:31:10Z

DrBat: answered in e-mail

DrBat: /* Name change? */

==Character Guide Pic==
I wonder if there wouldn't be a couple of pretty good character pic opportunities for her during "Final Cut". --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:22, 24 January 2006 (EST)
:I would think "[[Scar]]" would have even better opportunities; hopefully someone will step up. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:22, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::[http://galactica.emedian.net/ Dr Bat's Source] has an interesting one of her doing the "equilibrium" firing drill (under the "Episodic" photography). However, it's not much of a face closeup, and I'm not 100% sure on the copyright status of those shots (as cool as they are). They look too good to be screenshots, so if they are really promo photos then I think we'd be ok. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:40, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::From [http://galactica.emedian.net Dark Thoughts]: "All Battlestar Galactica images and videos © NBC and Universal Television.", which means the copyright is the same as for screenshots, so go for it. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 04:40, 15 February 2006 (EST)

== What did Kara Realize? ==

I think I agree with <del>Ricimer</del> The Merovingian. Kara didn't realize that she was being destructive because of Anders... Anders is fraking up her normally destructive mentality. She didn't realize ''jack'' while in the cockpit. All she knew at the time was that she chickened out. Later, while sparing with Karl, he pinpointed why she chickened out. It's not like Kara was normal before meeting Anders. Before meeting him, she'd have gone on in and been blown up. After meeting him, she's become a bit more sane and she doesn't know how to handle that. I'll wait for responses before reverting, but I think The Merovingian (who sorely needs a name I can call him that's much shorter) and I had identical interpretations of the final few minutes of "[[Scar]]". --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:48, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:A) Agreed. I don't think Spencerian's assesment was right: Starbuck "chickened out" (prudently protected her own life) because, as they stated in dialog at the end, she has Anders to live for now, etc. etc.

:B) Why? You seem to have little difficultly in typing "The Merovingian" at present. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:55, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:: Re: B - Well, I use "Day" partly because it is a short, short word. You may've noticed I refer to [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]] as simply "Joe", [[User: Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] as simply "Peter", [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] as "Spence" and [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] as "SV". That may be a bit too many examples, but I'm trying to establish a pattern of typing laziness. If push comes to shove, I may start calling you "M" or something... "The Frenchman" is just as long, see... Anyway. That's the long answer. I guess the short answer would be, "Because I can't be bothered." *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:21, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::Frenchy? ;) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 07:39, 8 February 2006 (EST)

All: There's no problem in updating or revising my intepretation, especially given the insightful explanation in this thread. Please, just type it in so that it doesn't read like my 9-year old son wrote it, thanks.

And I have already selected "Merv" for the M's short name, which is very obvious to me (and any Matrix fan). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:39, 8 February 2006 (EST)

Indeed. Yes, "Club Hel" scene, mexican standoff bit, etc. etc. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]]

===Acting CAG?===
Admittedly I am no expert on military nuances so correct my confusion if you can: Kat was leading the Vipers sent against Pegasus in Resurrection Ship part I, but does that mean she was the actual, promoted "CAG"? I mean, a pilot cannot be awake or expected to be capable of flyint 24 hours a day, so logically, at times they lead flight missions during which the actual "CAG" is not "leading the planes". We don't really know ''who'' Galactica CAG was after Apollo got transfered. Just thought I'd bring it up. Of course, I actually think the current idea of saying she was "presumed" in the link box is actually our best choice of action, and I actually don't see a better way of saying any of this. Just thought I'd bring it up. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:34, 25 March 2006 (CST)
: Kara was stationed on pegaus at the time. If the leader of a sqaud is not contacted who is then? A polit with less rank? She must have been acting CAG or even just CAG after the transfer. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:14, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::Well I guess that would depend on whether we consider Starbuck acting CAG during "Bastille Day" for example, but I don't think so. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:19, 26 March 2006 (CST)
:::I would say she was a CAG at that time. She is conducting the meeting, and that who the CAG is... someone even if it is so such a short time... bears that title. everyone keeps their title, even past retirment. (i.e. Retired Soilders keep their rank, unless revoked by a Dishonarble Dischange.) It's almost like if I were the Governor of a State, and after I left office, I would still be called Governor. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:22, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::::I would say the difference between Kat in "Resurrection Ship" and Starbuck in "Bastille Day" is that in RS, Kat's superiors had been transferred off-ship in an official capacity and weren't realistically expected to return; whereas the hostage crisis in "Bastille Day" was probably expected to be defused one way or another. Thus, in my mind, Kat was actually acting CAG in "Resurrection Ship", whereas Starbuck was just filling in in "Bastille Day". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:39, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::...No, CAG is nothing like that. It's a position not a rank; note that when Apollo is no longer CAG at various times, he is ''not'' called "CAG". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:29, 26 March 2006 (CST)
:::In the Navy, CAGs don't fly every mission. Any of the experienced pilots can lead missions, even if it was an Alpha strike (every attack and fighter craft launching to attack one target). CAGs do tend to fly missions just to keep up there flight hours. A good book that really shows the life of a CAG is Stephen Coonts' "Final Flight." CAG is as much an administration post as a combat one. Kat wouldn't have to be a CAG to command a mission like that. Also, if a CAG is unable to perform, and another is unavailable, the senior squadron commander would fill his shoes. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:00, 26 March 2006 (CST)

::::Thank you, Talos. Hm, you have a book source and that sounds kind of official to me, so I guess I'll edit the article. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:53, 26 March 2006 (CST)
:::::Because everything has to be spelled out and everyone has their own option,

:::::''Commander, Air Group, or CAG, refers to the senior officer responsible for air operations aboard an aircraft carrier of the U.S. Navy. The term traces its origins to 1938 when the first Carrier Air Group was formed. Air Groups were redesignated as Carrier Air Wings, or CVWs in the 1970s, but the head of the air wing is still referred to as the CAG.On a Royal Navy aircraft carrier, the equivalent is the Commander (Air).''

:::::Anyone, even if are acting is considered reponsible. I beleive she was the one asking for permission to fire. Not other pilots. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:07, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::::::That just means she was the leader of the mission. If Starbuck was leading a flight of 10 Vipers and Apollo was on Galactica doing paperwork, she wouldn't be CAG but would still lead the flight. Now Kat could be the CAG but we are just never told one way or another. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:15, 26 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::By that time Lee (Lt.) was in a Raptor, and Kara was coming back from the Reserrection Ship Recon. How could any one of those two people be CAG while they were not even on board Galalcita nor under Galalcicia control at the time? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:27, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::::::::I'm saying that Kat was a junior pilot. Any of the surviving pilots from before the attack would be more senior than her. If she wasn't the CAG, it's quite possible that it was a Raptor pilot. For all we know, Cain assigned a Pegasus pilot as CAG and he refused to fight his own ship (just speculation). --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:36, 26 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::::Fair point. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:11, 26 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::::Good points, Talos. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:31, 26 March 2006 (CST)

==Smug?==

"Kat chides Starbuck once more in the pilot's recreation room as she held the Top Gun mug. Starbuck pours champagne in the mug and tells Kat, "You've earned it." Kat's slight smile in response was not that of __smugness__, but that of honor--for Starbuck to tell her that she was (at least for the time being) the best--is pleasing as a master would compliment a student (Scar). Kat's __smugness__ was short-lived, as Starbuck offered a toast to all the pilots who have died during their flight from the colonies. Overwhelmed with the memory of lost comrades, Kat nearly burst into tears. {{unsigned|Niethan}}"
To clarify: is she smug or not? [[User:Niethan|Niethan]] 11:53, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

:That was my interpretation of the matter. Emotions were running high there, and even Commander Adama is grinning there, apparently aware of the mercurial nature of having to hand over the Top Gun mug when you're bested. Kat's grin might be more of "smug satisfaction" than merely the "nah-nah" teasing grin that Starbuck uses. The differences are small, I'll admit. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:05, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

::Saying she isn't smug then saying the opposite ten words later is plain bad style, not a matter of interpretation ;) [[User:Niethan|Niethan]] 12:19, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

==Kat's rank==

Does anyone have a screenshot of her with Captain's insignia? I only have relatively low-res video files, but in "Torn" when she walks across the hangar deck at the beginning, she wears Lt. pips as far as I can tell.
:If I remember correctly, Kat's Viper Mk VII was marked "Lt. Louanne Katraine" during the mock dogfight scene. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:44, 9 November 2006 (CST)
::Are Lt.s and Lt. JG's marked differently on Vipers? For, in [http://www.caprica-city.de/users/pedda/kat/newcag.jpg this picture] - which was probably taken during the production of early season 3 episodes - Kat wears Lt. JG insignia. - [[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 16:48, 9 November 2006 (CST)
::Watching over the mock dogfight scene, her rank/name/callsign are never shown on the Viper. It still looks to me like in the hangar deck and in the pilot's lounge, she's wearing Captain insignia. However, based on the above photo and no hard evidence that she's a Captain, I'm putting her rank in the article back to Lieutenant. - [[User:Ratamacue|Ratamacue]] 17:42, 9 November 2006 (CST)
:::I was specifically looking for her rank on friday when I watched it last, and I'm sure you can barely see her rank, at least a -T. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:37, 9 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can see her name plate for a very short while, but you need a high quality source to decipher anything on it --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:34, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::::Yes, the only nameplate you can clearly see is Apollo's. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:51, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:::Look at the [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000q38zc promo picture] from "The Passage" - I see some chevrons sticking out of the pin, but I can't tell if it's full Lieutenant or Captain. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 22:21, 16 November 2006 (CST)
::::Good catch. (I got carried away by the wonderful looks and composition, and totally missed the pin.) There are two chevrons sticking out on each side, so Kat's either Captain or Major. I think we can assume she will be Captain, because there are only four people in the fleet who hold a rank of Major or higher (Bill, Saul, Cottle, Lee). --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 02:09, 17 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's a Captain's pin. Major is 3 chevrons. So I'd say she's promoted some time in the next few episodes --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:49, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:::::I think she was promoted to Captain some time ago, only we don't know about it yet (Helo's case, anyone?). Every Galactica's or Pegasus' CAG was either Captain (Apollo, Starbuck, Stinger) or Major (Apollo, Ripper) and Kat was Galactica's CAG for a few months, too. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:06, 17 November 2006 (CST)
::::::[http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/cgtgraphics/Luciana%20Carro%20Caps/luci_torn_11.jpg These two] [http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/cgtgraphics/Luciana%20Carro%20Caps/luci_torn_12.jpg screen caps] are from "Torn". Is it just me or can you see something like two chevrons sticking out, too?
:::::::Yeah, it seems like she's Captain for some time now. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 13:13, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Name change? ==

Now that we realize she is not Louanne Katraine, maybe we should change the name of the article to her ''real'' name. That way it be properly documented. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:33, 9 December 2006 (CST)
* Naw. I vote against it. "Louanne Katraine" is what she is commonly known as, not "Sasha." "Louanne Katraine" is even legally her name, having all the documentation. "Louanne Katraine" is what the character is known by to the viewers, therefore that's what she should be documented in this encyclopedia as. -- [[User:Troyian|Troyian]] 01:35, 9 December 2006 (CST)
*I agree, though I think the info should be made into chronological order (so the stuff about her being a drug runner would be at the start of the article). --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 06:42, 9 December 2006 (CST)