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Daybreak, Part II/Notes

2009-04-06T06:36:50Z

Dharadvani: /* Miscellaneous */

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===The fate of the Colonials and Rebel Cylons===
*This episode marks the deaths of [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]], [[John Cavil]], [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]], [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]], [[Tory Foster]], [[Samuel Anders]], [[Laura Roslin]]. and all the Cylons at the Colony. [[Kara Thrace]], having fulfilled her purpose, vanishes without a trace and is taken to a place unknown. In detail:
**Boomer was killed by [[Athena]] in revenge for taking [[Hera]], sleeping with [[Helo]] and beating her in the lavatory. Also she was a security threat and there was no way to take her along and watch her effectively. Despite her redeeming act of giving back Hera, she couldn't be trusted.
**Cavil takes his own life in Galactica's CIC when the resurrection designs are irrevocably lost with the death of Tory Foster.
***It is unknown what happens to the other members of the Cavil/Number One line. The death of only a single Cavil is depicted, but any other Number Ones would face eventual extinction like all other humanoid Cylons.
**Racetrack and Skulls's Raptor is struck by an asteroid fragment, puncturing their canopy and killing them on impact (as well as at least three marines on board). When another asteroid hits the Raptor, Racetrack's limp hand hits the launch button that fires the nuclear missiles.
**Tory is killed by [[Galen Tyrol]] upon his learning Tory murdered his wife Cally during the [[Final Five]]'s mutual and involuntary sharing memories while downloading the Resurrection designs to the Colony.
***This is ironic considering that in their previous lives on the original Earth the pair were madly in love and planned on marriage.
**Anders pilots ''Galactica'' and guided the Fleet into the Sun.
***A possible CG error occurs here; look closely and you can see ''[[Hitei Kan]]'' flying backwards into the sun.
[[Image:Hitei_Kan_Daybreak.PNG|frame|right|139×112px|Is Hitei Kan being flown backwards?]]
**Roslin dies peacefully as Adama gives her a bird's eye view of their new home in a Raptor. She is the first Colonial human to die on Earth. During the Raptor flight she passd away exactly one minute and thirty seconds from being shown the spot Bill Adama wanted to build his-their-cabin.
**Since they have neither female Cylons nor Resurrection technology, the Cavils, Simons and Dorals on the various Cylon baseships will presumably die out.
**Kara is presumably taken by the same force, stated to be God by [[Virtual Six]], that resurrected her.
*The fates of numerous supporting characters are not shown.
**[[Brendan Costanza|Hot Dog]] is last seen flying his Viper back to ''Galactica'' after the initial cease fire. He likely survives since there is no mention of him being killed, and he is alive when the truce is called and the remaining Vipers and Raptors safely land on ''Galactica''.
**Since she isn't seen volunteering in the hanger deck or depicted in the attack, it is very likely that [[Diana Seelix]] didn't volunteer.
**Ishay is not seen after Roslin leaves sickbay.
**The episode also never touches on what becomes of [[Cult of Baltar|Baltar's cult]], including [[Jeanne]], [[Paulla]] and [[Tracy Anne]]. Founding member Jeanne who is absent from the finale but it is perfectly safe to assume that she and her fellow Cultist are with the people on the planet. Paulla and Tracy Anne were last scene on the last Raptor trying to get Baltar to come with them to the Baseship where many of the civilians including Baltar's flock were taken. They were unsuccessful and Paulla and Tracy-Anne went to the baseship without incident. Jeanne was almost certainly there and with the settlement on Earth.
**Captain Kelly, last seen in [[Blood on the Scales]] does not appear in this finale at all.
*The recurring subplot about the [[Sons of Ares]] and its growing conflict with the [[Cult of Baltar]] is unresolved.
*The Raiders are seen using missiles for the first time since the Fall of the Twelve Colonies.
*Racetrack's Raptor, and possibly the other ones in its flight group destroyed in the assault on the Colony, was carrying the last nukes from ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'', marking the end of humanity's use of these weapons (which were used to destroy the Twelve Colonies at the start of the series) for another 150,000 years. Presumably the baseship's store of nukes remains intact and some weren't "borrowed" by the humans for the attack.
*It is very likely that Saul Tigh, Galen Tyrol and definitely Tory Foster never recovered their first hand memories of life before and after Old Earth and before Cavil killed them and blocked their true memories when they resurrected. Tory Foster will certainly never have that chance since she was killed by Tyrol in a fit of rage over Tory's murder of Cally.
*The tracing of the human blood line through [[wikipedia:Mitochondrial DNA|Mitochondrial DNA]] to the furthest maternal common ancestor and dubbing her [[wikipedia:Mitochondrial Eve|Mitochondrial Eve]] is a real theory. Mitochondrial Eve was the ''matrilineal most recent common ancestor'', the most recent person in the female line that '''all''' of humanity can be said to be from. In other words, Hera is everybody's mother's mother's ... mother's mother. This does NOT imply that she is the only ancestor of modern humans. In fact, it implies that each female alive at the time either has no surviving descendants, or is ALSO a common ancestor (though not a purely maternal one). This also means that we as a species are related to Athena Hera's mother.
** In the series, Hera is Mitochondrial Eve, meaning that all of modern humanity is a combination of Colonial humanity and Cylon, although there maybe ancestors of native New Earth in the current population from the male line of descendants.
** The fossilized remains are said to be of a young woman, indicating Hera does not live to see a middle age, though she has children before she dies. Specifically, she must have had daughters to pass on her mitochondrial DNA.
** Since mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the mother only, and Hera has a Cylon mother, her mitochondrial DNA and that of all her descendants is pure Cylon making us all direct decendents of Athena.
*Also in the podcast, RDM is happy to confirm that Tyrol did find some natives in Scotland and ended up being the 'King of the Scots', apparently since Aaron Douglas loved the idea of Scottish civilization (with its tradition of great engineers) being descended from Tyrol. This may suggest that Galen Tyrol, a male Cylon, had successfully mated and produced children with a New Earth native human female to produce at least one other hybrid.
*Gaius Baltar, with deliberate forethought, gave [[Caprica Six]] the back door to the Colonial defenses. He still did not know Caprica Six was a Cylon, but he did commit willful corporate espionage knowing he would be punished for it if caught. Previously Baltar's giving of Caprica Six the secrets was implied - or at least inferred - to be from naive vanity to impress his girlfriend Caprica Six. The Colonists still don't know this.
*The Colonials never did find out that Gaius Baltar gave [[Gina Inviere]] a nuclear device on the space liner ''[[Cloud 9]]'' destroying that liner and all on board near what would be called [[New Caprica]]. That same explosion would bring the Cylons to New Caprica a year later due to them being a light year away at the time they saw it, making him responsible for the occupation.
*Humanity, along with the Cylons, finally reaches its new homeworld, names it Earth, and the humans of today are the distant descendants of Hera.
*Before deciding that ''Galactica'' should reach Earth in prehistoric times, Moore toyed with the idea of having the Fleet arrive during the Hellenistic period and formed the basis of the ancient Greek religion and society. However, this idea was rejected as it suggested that the Colonials blessed only Western civilization with their knowledge rather than all of humanity, and it did not acknowledge Hera's importance. Moore read an article on the idea of a common human ancestor which he decided should be Hera. This also explains why the Fleet personnel landed in Africa (the network had been suggesting it should be North America, presumably to match the final shot of Season 3).
**According to the podcast for the episode, the destruction of the Fleet and the spreading out of the surviving Colonials over the planet's surface was supposed to be a sign of humanity's committal to their new world, not necessarily promoting a Luddite agenda. The comparison that is drawn is Cortes burning his ships on the shores of central America so his men would not have a way of retreating if things got difficult. However, RDM later mentions that one of the last shots was to have been of the Colonials destroying their last Raptors, which suggests that the Luddite approach was more what they were aimng for.
*There was no final population count given after the engagement with the Cavil forces. However, there were no reported deaths by accident or violence before the engagement so the population count is most likely the same as it was in "[[Daybreak, Part I]]" before the attack on the Cylon Colony, 39,516.
**A new population count post-engagement is given in the separate iTunes release of Daybreak, Part III. The count is 39,406, putting Colonial casualties from the battle at 110. Then shortly after their arrival on New Earth former President of the 12 Colonies of Kobol Laura Roslin dies, and Kara Thrace vanishes without a trace. From this we can derive that the number of people settled on New Earth is 39,404. This does not include the unknown number of humanoid Cylons from the baseship (which probably was never stated) and possibly Athena and the remaining three of the Final Five who aren't considered human survivors.
*The Centurions are granted full independence and subsequently depart in the rebel Baseship to pursue their own destiny. Their status 150,000 years later remains a mystery. The Colonials and humanoid Cylons believe it is unlikely they will be a threat, as they have no reason to bear a grudge this time around.
*When ''Galactica'' and the Fleet fly into the Sun, only 15 ships can be seen when at least 35 ships were still in the Fleet during the Mutiny, and upwards of 90 after the events of the mini-series. However, establishing shots of the Fleet rarely show more than a dozen ships in one shot regardless, and the implication is that the entire Fleet was destroyed.

===Aftermath of the War===
*There is a poetic ring to the nature of the conflict of the Second Cylon War:
** It began with the Cylon attack on Colonies nearly wiping out mankind. It ended with the Colonial attack on the Cylon Colony very likely wiping out the Cylons who didn't join with the humans.
**Shortly after the Cylon attack on Caprica, Baltar -- having unintentionally brought about the near-annihilation of the human species -- flees Caprica when Karl Agathon gives him his place on a Raptor, feeling that his own life is less important to save than a famed scientist's. But at the end of the series, it is Baltar who puts his own life at risk for the sake of saving Agathon's daughter Hera and expresses concern for her future well being to the very end of the series (both ends of this parallel occur in wide open fields).
**Agathon and Cylon Sharon Valerii are seen together near the very beginning of the series and near the very end.
**The earliest known detail we see of Gaius Baltar's life is his effort to break away from his family history as farmers, and his shame over his heritage. The last event we see in his embrace of a new beginning as a farmer.
**Baltar and Number Six are seen together near the very beginning of the series and near the very end.
**The earliest event we see from Laura Roslin's life (retroactively) is the death of her sisters, killed during transit. The last event of her life that we see is her own death, which occurs during transit.
**The series starts and finishes with two "endings" for ''Galactica'': its scheduled decommissioning in the mini-series, and its destruction by setting course into the sun in the finale.
**The series begins with a selfish decision Baltar makes (to give Caprica Six access to military mainframes) that nearly destroys Colonial humanity. It ends with a selfless decision Baltar makes (to fulfill his destiny in saving Hera) that gives Colonial humanity a new start in the form of Hera.
** At the beginning of the series, William Adama divorces his wife soon after returning to Colonial military service. At the end of the series, Adama abandons all trappings of the military to be with his unofficial wife Laura Roslin, upon whose finger he puts his wedding ring just after she dies.
**This poetic ring is also in line with [[Romo Lampkin]]'s observation of him being President of it being "Poetic justice" and Lee Adama's "What goes around, comes around" since Lampkin originally pushed him to be a politician.
**The Cylons started the war with the attack on the 12 Colonies by being able to use a backdoor program to shutdown the Colonial defenses including those of the more advanced Vipers and Battlestars. They were able to only use the less advance Mark IV Vipers and Battlestar Galactica. At the end of the war the Colonials at the Battle of the Colony was able to shutdown the Colony's defenses by using Sam Anders as a hybrid to talk remotely to the Colony's Hybrids who recognized him and stop firing. The Cavil Faction Cylons could only use lobotomized Raiders to attack the Galactica. Indeed, the Cylons were revisited by the destruction they wrought on the human Colonies using nuclear weapons by the Colonials using nuclear weapons to send the Colony into the singularity.

===Miscellaneous===
*The title of the episode coincides with German philosopher [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche Friedrich Nietzsche’s] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dawn_(book) book] of the same title, and fits with numerous references to Nietzsche’s philosophy throughout the episode. Most obviously, Baltar, in his speech to Cavil in the CIC, states that "God is a force of nature … [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Good_and_Evil_(book) beyond good and evil]." ''Beyond Good and Evil'' is another of Nietzsche’s works. Baltar goes on to say "Good and evil—we created those," echoing Nietzsche’s claim in the First Treatise of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Genealogy_of_Morality ''On the Genealogy of Morality''] that morality, including the concepts of "good" and "evil," are human constructs whose utility must be examined. Baltar also asks Cavil if he wants to "break the cycle of birth, death, rebirth…" which recalls the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] that "All this has happened before. All this will happen again." This is also a reference to Nietzsche's concept of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return#Friedrich_Nietzsche ''eternal recurrence''], that living one's life exactly the same, over and over for eternity, can be the worst of punishments (for those who live trivial lives) but also the greatest of gifts (for those who live great lives).
*''Galactica'' ramming the [[The Colony|Colony]] is foretold in the imagery of Hera's play with tactical models at the beginning of "[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]". She is shown on top of ''Galactica'''s tactical light table with models of ''Galactica'', three Baseships and three Cylon Raiders, sliding ''Galactica'' against the side of a baseship.
*Shortly after recovering from being shot by Boomer, Admiral Adama visits her corpse in ''Galactica's'' morgue in "[[The Farm]]" and asks, "Why?" There is no indication that in the weeks Boomer was held on ''Galactica'' during the events between "[[Deadlock]]" and "[[Someone to Watch Over Me]]" that he ever visited her to find out why she shot him, but he was clearly still bitter about it in "Someone to Watch Over Me". He knows she was programmed to do it, but he never resolves the emotional aspect of it, and with her death Adama never learns the answer to that question. His not visiting her might indicate he didn't care anymore.
*Saul Tigh offers a similar deal to the one the Final Five offered to the Centurions during the [[First Cylon War]]: An end to the attacks on humanity in exchange for resurrection. Durig the first war, it was in exchange for resurrection '''and''' the creation of humanoid Cylons.
*During Adama's polygraph examination for his high paying civilian job post retirement from the service he was asked Are you a Cylon? by the examiner. This is one more indication that it possibly known to some in power that the Cylons were working on humanoid looking versions of themselves although it was not widely known publicly.
**It is clear from dialog in the episode that the question was meant as a control to get a baseline reading. Polygraph interviewers begin with a series of questions that they already know are true or false; like the subject's name, date of birth, etc. Asking Adama if he's a Cylon was simply an absurd question, the answer to which would obviously be "no," for later comparison when the real questioning began.
***True, but remember what young Lt. William "Husker" Adama saw in that facility he crash landed in just minutes before the end of the [[First Cylon War]] in [[Razor]]. People being experimented on and a vat. I would think he reported what he saw to his superiors. And of course there could be the revelations of the up coming "Caprica" and some knowing the research Graystone was working on which his own father was privy to. The Examiner may believe his question was absurd but it could be the reason Adama hesitated and was offended and not laugh it off as the absurd question.
****Dialogue ''explicitly'' establishes that the question was simply a control for the polygraph. Adama's offense is clearly based on the questioning of his word, as established, again expressly, with his response and implicitly in context throughout the episode and the series. The question has '''absolutely nothing''' to do with a substantive inquiry about whether Adama is a Cylon.
*****Keep in mind what Adama knows about what he saw in "Razor" and anything he has learned since then, which is why he was able to deduce Leoben was a Cylon in the Miniseries at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. To the polygraph examiner it was a non sense question, but to Adama it was more than that. It was a silly question to the examiner, but a very real one to Adama. Adama knows something the examiner doesn't. That it is not merely an absurd control question to Adama. That is why he reacted. If it was it would had been like if he was asked if he was a shark or a frog.
******There is nothing to substantiate this pet theory. His entire objection was to taking the polygraph itself, and the questions leading up to asking about shoplifting are part of a consistent series of flashbacks reflecting Adama's pride and longstanding belief in the integrity of a man's word. His agitation predates his sitting in the chair, and his response to that question is not what ultimately causes him to terminate the interview. As he leaves, he explicitly states his reason for doing so. There is ''no link whatsoever'' to the events of 'Razor' and nothing to suggest that Adama had deduced anything about the existence of humanoid Cylons; going solely off what is disclosed, Adama knows nothing except that Cylons were experimenting on humans. This theory is fanwanking and not appropriate for a factual article absent some textual or on-screen corroboration.
*According to the podcast, the ''Galactica'' was originally going to jump right inside the Colony for the attack, but RDM changed it because he wanted the ship to have open space around it for the final Viper/Raider dogfight.
*''Galactica'' is shown executing a jump without retracting her flight pods, which was earlier said to be required<ref>Special effects continuity errors have sometimes shown ''Galactica'' jumping with pods extended and emerging with them retracted.</ref> ([[Miniseries, Night 2]]). However, it is possible that the resulting stresses from jumping with the pods extended contribute to ''Galactica'''s structural failure.
**There may be a clue in the nature of the damage incurred following the jump. A wave-like motion appears to run the length of the ship; perhaps FTL jumps always inflict similar stresses, but under normal conditions the nesting of the flight pods into their recessed 'valleys' (and their support arms into the presumably void spaces between them) lends structural reinforcement to counter said forces.
**Galactica has also been upgraded with Cylon jump technology, so it's possible that it no longer needs to retract the pods, like [[Pegasus]].
*According to the podcast, when Laura asks "Where have you taken us, Kara?" Starbuck was supposed to reply, "Somewhere along the watchtower." Director Michael Rhymer did not like this idea and simply didn't shoot the line. Moore later agreed that it was better not to have Kara speak.
*The shot of ''Galactica'' flying over the Moon and reaching Earth was inspired by real-life shots from the Apollo space program, specifically Apollo 8's shot of coming around the dark side of the Moon and the Apollo 17 shot of the Earth itself.
*A portion of this episode was being filmed in [[w:Kamloops| Kamloops, BC]] during the week of June 16, 2008. Local extras of all ages were utilized for this scene (or scenes) and were required to have an athletic build and a clean-cut look, or to be slim with long hair or dreadlocks. Extras were auditioned at Best Western room 137 (in Kamloops) on June 12th <ref>http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_thompson_nicola/kamloopsthisweek/entertainment/19788509.html</ref>. The rural area surrounding Kamloops was previously utilized to depict the [[algae planet]] in "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]" and "[[Rapture]]".
**According to the episode podcast, the sequences on Earth at the end were the ones filmed at Kamloops. Some CGI was used to remove distinctive Canadian evergreen trees from the background and replace them with more Africa-looking foilage, but otherwise the landscape was actually a decent match for Africa.
*Although Part I had a runtime of one hour, Part II will run for two hours. An even longer cut of Daybreak will later be released on DVD. <ref>{{cite_news|first=|last=|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/07/talking-battles.html|title=Talking 'Battlestar Galactica's' finale, 'Caprica' and the 'Battlestar' TV movie with Ron Moore}}</ref>
*The ''[http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Kodiak Kodiak]'', the command ship of the Global Defense Initiative (GDI) faction from the computer game ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Tiberian_Sun Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun]'' is seen among the fleet in one establishing shot.
**[[Tricia Helfer]] and [[Grace Park]] both appear in ''Tiberian Sun''’s sequel, ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_and_Conquer_3 Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars].
*The final scene, like most of the rest of the series, was filmed in Vancouver, BC, and not in New York City at all. In the final scene with Angel Baltar and Six, "Bread Garden Bakery and Cafe", W Pender St, and Dunsmuir St are visible, all of which are within a couple blocks of each other along Granville St in downtown Vancouver. [http://tinyurl.com/crgd2x] Furthermore, a bus passes by just before the credit, sporting the colors of the Coast Mountain Bus Company.
**According to the podcast, Ronald D. Moore was wearing a Jimi Hendrix T-shirt in the final shot, but they chose not to show this. The shot of the realistic Japanese female robot was found by Terry Moore online and was referred to as the 'next' Number Six by RDM.
**Also according to the podcast, Baltar saying "It doesn't like that name," is significant, and is indeed meant to confirm that whatever 'God' is in the series, it isn't necessarily what the name implies.
*The Centurion Model 0005 in the museum case is a retcon. In the [[Miniseries]], it was an Original Series costume, with the black skirt and non-exposed joints. In this episode, it is a CGI First War Centurion 0005 with exposed joints and no black skirt.
**It is not explained why the museum flight pod is shown to be in nearly pristine condition when, in addition to four years of battles and the atmosphere-drop over New Caprica, a Cylon Heavy Raider crashed through the overhead window and crushed several of the exhibits in ''[[Scattered]]''. Repairing the museum and exhibits would have seemed to be a low priority during subsequent events.
*Reference (possibly intentional) is made to Olmos' earlier work: Adama's flushing of flamingos while flying a Raptor is reminiscent of the flamingos flushing during the opening credits of Miami Vice, the TV series in which Edward James Olmos co-starred.
*The news network covering the story "Advances in Robotics" as Angel Baltar and Six pass by is [http://www.msnbc.com MSNBC], the 24 hour news network arm of the NBC Universal media conglomerate which also owns the SyFy Channel (at the time the SciFi Channel), which produces ''Battlestar Galactica'' and airs the series in the United States.
**The last advance in robotics shown was a humanoid "cybernetic robot" named "ACTROID", a Japanese design that was unveiled in 2005.[http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-10744-Robot+or+Human%3F+Here%27s+ACTROID.html].
**The ACTROID's appearance in the final scene bookends the first scene of the mini-series in which several "traditional" robotic Cylons appear, following by the first appearance of the attractive humanoid Cylon, Number Six.
*Although many of the magazines on the newsstand appear familiar, close examination reveals that at least some have made-up names. A magazine that appears at first glance to be ''Sports Illustrated'' is actually ''Sports Limited''. Also, although the magazine read by Angel Six and Baltar (and Ronald Moore) closely resembles ''National Geographic'', at no time is the complete title of the magazine or its full logo actually shown on screen; furthermore, the back cover of the magazine is solid yellow whereas actual issues of National Geographic always have advertising on the back cover.
*Initially, Helo and Athena were supposed to die and Hera would be raised by Gaius Baltar and Caprica-Six. This would make sense as in the [[Opera House]] vision Baltar and Caprica-Six take Hera into the Opera House and Athena and Roslin don't make it inside. It also lends well for a symbolical structure of the series: Caprica-Six kills a child at the beginning and raises one at the end, they destroyed one civilisation and then at the end they nurture the foundation of another one.
*Angel Six makes a reference to the Law of Averages: "Let a complex system repeat itself long enough; eventually something surprising might occur." She is actually referring to the Law of Large Numbers. The Law of Averages is a mistaken belief that the outcome of an event is affected by the outcome of previous iterations of the same event.
*Dialogue was cut from the final scene between Angel Six and Angel Baltar, but can be heard on the cast read-through podcast. The full dialogue of the scene is the same up until Baltar states that "It (God) doesn't like to be called that," but then changes with Baltar discussing having a wager on the matter (humanity's survival this time around) with Six, who looks disgusted at the notion. Baltar then smiles and says "Silly, silly me," and they walk off as in the broadcast version.
*As with Part I, the episode does not include the regular opening credits and theme. It does begin with the standard "Previously on Battlestar Galactica" sequence, and the honor of speaking these words in the final episode is given to Edward James Olmos.

Daybreak, Part II

2009-03-27T10:01:04Z

Dharadvani: /* Miscellaneous */

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{{Episode Data
| image=Battleofthecolony.jpg
| title= Daybreak, Part II & Part III
| season= 4
| episode= 20
| guests=
| writer= [[Ronald D. Moore]]<ref>http://rondmoore.com/Site/Blog/Entries/2008/4/18_Podcast_Success!.html</ref>
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=422
| rating=1.7<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.nbcumv.com/scifi/release_detail.nbc/scifi-20090324000000-4242update58.html|title='Battlestar Galactica Finale Blasts Away the Competition|date=24 March 2009|accessdate=25 March 2009|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>/2,364,000 viewers (Live+SD)<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/24/wwe-raw-hannah-montana-and-northern-lights-lead-cable-show-rankings/15073|title=WWE RAW, Hannah Montana and Northern Lights lead cable show rankings|date=24 March 2009|accessdate=25 March 2009|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
| US airdate=March 20, 2009
| CAN airdate=March 20, 2009
| UK airdate=March 24, 2009
| dvd=
| population=
| prev=[[Daybreak, Part I]]
| next=[[The Plan]]
| extra='''Series Finale - 2 Hour Episode'''<ref>http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html</ref>
| forumthread=3050
}}

== Overview ==

===Act 1===

The final episode begins with a series of events before before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Fall]].
*In a strip bar in [[Caprica City]], [[William Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh|Saul]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] enjoy themselves. Adama questions whether to take a civilian job, rather than to take command of an aged battlestar<ref>This is a side reference to the events of the episode, "[[Hero]]"</ref> Over drinks, Adama decides to take the job.
*Elsewhere on Caprica, [[Lee Adama]] is having dinner with [[Kara Thrace]] and her fiancee, [[Zak Adama]]. Zak questions why his brother joined the [[Colonial Forces]], despite Lee's idealism and his dislike of his father. Lee simply answers that he received college funding in exchange for service.
*Elsewhere, [[Laura Roslin]] greets her date, [[Sean Allison]], at her home. After realizing he seemed familiar, Roslin finally recalls where she had seen him. Sean was a former student from years ago. Despite the age difference, Roslin decides to let him stay the night. "The night's young. Apparently, so are you," she says. "Let's see what happens."
*Back at the strip bar, Bill Adama challenges Saul on whether he'd take the civilian desk job. Saul doesn't answer.
*Lee Adama and Thrace manage to drag Zak to a couch after a night of drinking. But Thrace isn't done, and pulls out more alcohol for shots between her and Lee.
*Bill Adama is drunkenly sick, vomiting outside somewhere on the street. With a weak smile, he looks up to the stars in the night sky.

Aboard ''[[Galactica]]'', [[Gaius Baltar]] sits in the former home of his [[Cult of Baltar|followers]], now empty. He listens to the [[Virtual Beings|Virtual Six]], telling him to trust in [[God (RDM)|God's]] plan for him. When he asks what that plan is, she tells him that he already following it. Paulla interrupts his conversation, but Baltar asks for five minutes before he leaves.

===Act 2===
Aboard ''[[Galactica]]'', final preparations are made for the mission...
* In [[sickbay]], Dr. [[Cottle]] leaves assistant [[Layne Ishay]] two injections of heavy medication to allow Laura Roslin enough lucidity and mobility for 48 hours. She thanks him sincerely, causing Cottle to be something he'd rarely been: speechless.
* In the [[pilot ready room]], [[Karl Agathon]] briefs the [[Raptor]] teams on the special nature of their rescue mission. Despite the odds, all volunteer.
* Lee Adama briefs the [[marines]] on where little Hera would likely be: deep inside the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] [[The Colony|colony]].
*In CIC, Admiral Adama work out the tactics of the battle against the colony; Close-range combat - no nuclear weapons and missiles. He orders the gun [[battery|batteries]] to fire until exhausted, and after that, "start throwing rocks," he says with a small smile.
* The [[Final Five]] plan to use [[Samuel Anders]], now effectively a [[Hybrid]] on ''[[Galactica]]'', to interface with the Colony and its Hybrids to interrupt their commands and slowing the Colony's weapon systems. The catch is that Anders will need to be connected to the [[DRADIS]], fire control and [[C-3]] systems. They plan to take Anders and connect him inside the [[CIC]].
* In CIC, Saul Tigh jokes at his old friend at the bizarre sight of a Cylon interfaced to his battlestar, gooey wires and conduit that extend over Adama's command console everywhere and into the DRADIS console. "Still not too late to flush them all out of the airlock," Tigh quips. "Take too much time," Adama answers.
* Admiral Adama hands over command of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] to [[Hoshi]], noting that if they aren't back from the mission in 12 hours, they will never come back. Similarly, Lee Adama appoints [[Romo Lampkin]] as President of the Twelve Colonies. He joins Admiral Hoshi on the last Raptor to leave ''Galactica'' for the baseship, the Fleet's new flagship.
* Baltar's followers get in the ship. Baltar enters, but then tells [[Paulla]] that he must stay on the ship. Lee Adama throws Baltar a weapon. As Baltar is given a weapon, a Number Six leads a large number of [[Cylon Centurion]]s down the [[hangar deck]]; a red sash painted on them for identification.

===Act 3===

A shot of the Fleet shows that the rebel [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]] fully regenerated since the [[Cylon Civil War]], and ready to lead the civilians to safety. ''Galactica'' separates from the fleet, retracting its [[flight pod]]s to prep for [[FTL]].

Adama asks to go "around the horn", with the [[Saul Tigh|XO]] calling out combat stations over the loudspeaker.
*In sickbay, Layne Ishay prepares sickbay for wounded, with Laura Roslin assisting as best she can.
*[[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] are in [[launch tube]]s, and the entire Raptor squadron, armed with troops and missiles, have been placed inside the starboard flight pod deck, amidst the ruins of the old [[Galactica Museum]].
*Lee Adama and his force of marines (including Sergeant [[Allan Nowart]]) and red-striped centurions take their positions.
*Gaius Baltar is a soldier protecting the hallways against boarders. He is surprised to find [[Caprica-Six]] by his side.
*In CIC, Ellen Tigh signals that Anders is ready to work.
*Adama gives a final speech, a final understanding and call to arms.

The battlestar jumps away from the fleet, and [[Battle of the Colony]] begins...
*''Galactica'' arrives only meters from the edge of the Colony, and is immediately besieged by the Cylon batteries.
*Ellen starts up Sam Anders, who makes contact with the Colony Hybrids and takes them and the guns offline. Ellen warns that [[Cylon Raider]]s will appear any minute.
* ''Galactica'' responds by launching its fighter wings. The Vipers launch, and the Raptors jump directly from within the starboard pod to the opposite side of the Colony in a flanking position. The Raptor jumps, however, cause massive damage to the pod, with gas venting outside from a gaping hole.
* Adama orders the battlestar's engines ahead at flank speed, ramming the alligator head into the Colony. ''Galactica's'' inhabitants take a beating, but breach the Colony through the forced entry. Lee Adama leads his marines and several Cylon Centurions inside from a front airlock.
*[[Racetrack]] and [[Skulls]] arm their nuclear missiles, presumably to strike the colony after the rescue. But suddenly a piece of debris strikes their Raptor, killing all aboard and leaving the Raptor adrift.
*Several Raptors, including the one with [[Sharon Agathon]], Helo, and Starbuck, dock and make their way into the colony.
*Deep inside the Colony, a [[Simon]] works on young Hera as [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] looks on in disgust. When she questions why he continues to work on Hera, the Simon explains that they maintain and superior force and numbers. Boomer assaults the Simon, snapping his neck, and takes Hera out of the room.

===Act 4===

* The Colony's halls are filled with gunfire. Cylon Centurions, including older [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Model 0005s]] fight each other as the Colonial fire teams push through.
* [[Cavil]], a [[Number Five]] and another Simon decide to go on the offensive, to attack the battlestar with their troops.

* In a hallway in ''Galactica'', ready to repel boarders, Caprica-Six and Baltar come to terms with their old relationship. As they kiss, they hear a Six's voice. "All of the pieces are falling into place."
* The Virtual Six--''and'' the Virtual Baltar--stand above them. To the surprise of Caprica-Six and Baltar, they can hear and see each of the avatars.
* With a shudder, the battlestar hull is breeched as waves of enemy Centurions, both old-model and modern, pour into the ship.

* The Agathon's team find Boomer, holding Hera. She gives the child to them, telling them to tell Admiral Adama that she "owed him one." With the child safe, Athena shoots Boomer.
* A flashback scene shows what Boomer meant: a time back in her days on '''Galactica'', as Adama and Tigh redress her but give her another chance to be a better pilot.

* Ishay has her hands full in sickbay, trying to triage and treat as many people as she can. The event is taxing, physically and mentally, for Roslin, as she comforts more dying than not.

* Lee Adama's team connects with Starbuck's team, with Hera in tow. When Lee asks where Thrace was, she answers, "Stopped for coffee."<ref>This might be the one time in the history of the series where an obvious joke to [[w:Starbucks Coffee|Starbucks Coffee]] has been used.</ref> With their objective complete and no other Colonial troops found, they head back to the battlestar's alligator-head.

* ''Galactica'' batteries are being targeted by Raiders. She is losing what little defensive ability she has left. Enemy forces are coming at the reserve forces--where Baltar waits.

===Act 5===

* Caprica-Six and Baltar hold off the enemy Centurions. Baltar's passion at killing Centurions gets a bit out of control as Lee Adama's team reenter the battlestar with Hera. As more enemies appear, Lee and Baltar fire away.
* Laura Roslin sits and experiences yet another vision of the [[Opera House]] and little Hera. Struggling to walk, driven by something she can't fully realize, she gets up to find Hera.
* Starbuck leads the Agathons through the hallways, but a Number Five appears from behind, seriously wounding Helo in the leg and killing a marine before Starbuck eliminates him. A damaged, but still functioning enemy Centurion shows up and in the confusion, Hera runs away. Athena runs after her at the request of her wounded husband.
* Hera walks amidst the gunfighting, when soon she encounters Roslin, who pulls out of the path of an enemy patrol and to safety. But when Roslin turns back to the child, she is gone again.
* Caprica-Six and Baltar are running, and are out of ammo. Suddenly they see Hera, as well as Roslin and Athena--all grouped together as in the Opera House vision. Caprica-Six scoops up the child and enters a hallway, closing the hatchway, preventing Athena and Roslin from following. The opera house vision had Caprica-Six and Baltar closing the door on boht Athena and Roslin after picking up Hera.
* As the scene shifts between visions of the Opera House and the corridors, Baltar and Caprica-Six realize what they must do: follow their vision into the Opera House--which turns out to be CIC, where the Final Five reside, overlooking the lower deck of CIC as they appeared in the vision, standing above.
* Adama and his men have apparently just finished defending the CIC from a break-in by Cavil, a Doral and a Simon. The Doral and the Simon are dead, and Cavil is under guard. An explosion rocks the CIC, and Cavil picks up a gun and grabs Hera as a shield.
* Baltar pleads for the child's freedom, telling Cavil that Hera is key to humanity's survival as well. He reasons with Cavil that there are higher forces at work, that led them all, here, for a reason. Baltar also reveals that he has been visited by angels - the agents of God. When Cavil questions if God has his people's interests at heart, on how Baltar knows that God is on his side, Baltar replies (in an allusion of something [[The Hand of God (RDM)| Virtual Six once told him]]), "God is not on anyone's side." The Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar look on with a pleased expression.
* Baltar asks Cavil to take a leap of faith. Saul Tigh sweetens the pot by offering to reteach Cavil the secret of [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]], this time in exchange not only for Hera's life but for permanent peace, where the Cylons leave humanity alone.
* Cavil agrees. He uses the Battlestar comm to order his forces to stand down and releases Hera. Admiral Adama orders stand-down as well.

===Act 6===

* Vipers and Raptors return to ''Galactica'' as the Raiders return to the Colony. Laura Roslin joins the admiral in CIC.
* The Five each know part of the secret to resurrection. They will combine their knowledge by connecting themselves through the water in Ander's tank. Ellen Tigh tells the others that the process will also share memories as well as data.
* But before they begin, [[Tory Foster]], visibly anxious, warns the others that they will see "certain things" of their bad behavior. She tries to prepare the others of what they will see of her. An impatient Cavil screams. "I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"
* The Five dip their hands and make the connection. As the data flows to the Colony, Foster's visions of murdering [[Cally Tyrol]] in an effort to protect her secret of being a Cylon comes to the forefront, surprising the others of the Five, and angering [[Galen Tyrol]] immediately.
* Tyrol pulls his hand from the pool and wraps both hands tightly around Foster's neck in a death-grip, eventually snapping her neck.
* As Anders screams from the sudden disconnection, the Cylons in CIC believe they are deceived and open fire. The Colonials kill all but Cavil, who shouts an exasperated "[[Frak]]!" before putting his pistol in his mouth and pulling the trigger.

* High above, as the Raiders begin attacking ''Galactica'' again, [[Racetrack]]'s damaged Raptor drifts, its crew lifeless. A rock strikes the ship, causing Racetrack's dead hand to strike the firing button to the Raptor's tactical nuclear missiles, launching them all straight at the Colony.
* The force of the explosions severely damage the Colony, pushing it towards the black hole, threatening to take ''Galactica'' with it.
* Adama orders Kara Thrace to make a [[blind jump]], but Thrace thinks about [[The Music|the music her father played]], the music that Hera wrote to her. Recalling the mathematical associations she tried to discern from the music, Thrace realizes the music works as a series of FTL coordinates.
* She punches in the coordinates into the [[Computers|navigation computer]] and jumps the ship.

* A flashback scene appears where Lee Adama and Kara Thrace talk about how she [[The Destiny|thinks about death]] every time she gets into a cockpit.

* ''Galactica'' completes the jump--but the strain of the last battle causes the battlestar's structure to ripple and twist as structural members tear and break. The ship will never jump again. Engines and life support are still online, but ''Galactica's'' backbone is broken.
* "Where have you taken us, Kara?" Roslin asks, as the scene changes to an exterior shot to show the battlestar flying over a gray, rocky moon.
* But is not just a moon...''Galactica'' has arrived at the ''moon of Earth''...another Earth, this one with the continent of Africa in prominent view.

===Act 7===
[[File:Battlestar Over Africa.jpg|thumb|right|200px|right|A crippled ''Galactica'' seen in orbit over the Sahara Desert.]]
* The Fleet jumps into Earth orbit as ''Galactica'' passes by. A Raptor came to Hoshi to guide them to Earth.
* Landing ship after landing ship leave for the new world.
* On a green, rich savannah in Africa, Admiral Adama, Cottle, Saul Tigh, Hoshi, and Baltar look on, lying prone on their stomachs with binoculars at a tribe of early humans. Cottle confirms that the native humans are compatible with the Colonials genetically.
* At a camp, as Lampkin considers a building of a new city, Lee Adama tells him to let humanity start all over again, leave their technology behind, which has almost always gotten them into trouble. Let the Colonials enter Earth with just their basic possessions.

* Admiral Adama maps out a plan to populate various continents and land masses, spreading out humanity and Cylon far and wide, distributing supplies to give all a good chance of survival. To Lampkin's surprise, the peoples of the Fleet take a liking to leaving technology behind.
* A [[Number Two]] tells Adama that the remaining Twos, Sixes, and Eights will stay on Earth as well, handing over the baseship to the Centurions, to give them their own freedom. When Lampkin questions if setting the Centurions free won't cause another holocaust hundreds of years from now, Ellen Tigh agrees it's a risk, but believes the cycle of death has been ended. Adama agrees.
* Adama tells that, after everyone is offloaded from the ships, the Fleet will reunite with '''Galactica'' a final time. Piloted by Samuel Anders, still in his tank in CIC, connected into the battlestar, he will fly all the ships on a final voyage into the Sun.

* Kara Thrace, eyes filled with tears, meets with Anders at his tank, kissing him goodbye for the last time, and leaving her [[dog tags]]. As she leaves, he mutters, "I'll see you on the other side."

===Act 8===

* Admiral William Adama descends into the hangar deck, wearing a [[flight suit]]. The deck is otherwise completely empty of anything, and anyone.
* He takes a seat in a [[Viper Mark II]]. Not just any Mark II...but the one that Galen Tyrol's team rebuilt for him as a retirement gift [[Miniseries, Night 1|so long ago]].
* As Adama's Viper launches, the scene shifts to six years prior, where Adama is taking a lie detector test for the prospective desk job. When the test administrator asks him test questions such as, "Are you a Cylon?" and "Have you ever stolen money from a cash drawer?" Adama is angered and leaves, saying, "I'd rather spend the rest of my career--what's left of it--on a broken old down ship, than to have someone sit here and question my word."
* Husker's Viper makes a final fly-by of the old battlestar, looking at her one last time before pointing his Viper towards Earth.
[[File:The fleet's end.jpg|thumb|180px|right|The [[fleet]] heading straight into the Sun.]]
* Samuel Anders' voice from the past talks of his days in sport, dreaming of perfection, and being linked to it, to creation, as Anders guides the Fleet, now united to the mathematical perfection he once spoke of through his duties as a Hybrid.
* As the [[Colonial_Anthem|Colonial Anthem]]--a version of the [[Original Series]] main theme--plays, the scene shows ''Galactica'' and the Fleet gathered a final time, heading away from Earth and towards the sun to its demise.

* Walking in the savannah, the Tighs speak with Galen Tyrol a final time. He has decided to go to the northern highlands of Earth (likely Scotland <ref>http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html</ref>). The scene shifts to the Tighs, partying back in Caprica City, once upon a time.

===Act 9===

* On the plains, Bill Adama sits with Laura Roslin, watching herds of gazelle. Her vision weakening, she tries to use her glasses with the binoculars. "A very beautiful world," she says. When she asks what the name of the planet is, Adama tells her it's Earth. He adds, "Earth is a dream," believing that their new home, a long-sought destination, deserves the name.
* Roslin's breathing becomes labored and shallow. Adama offers to give her a better look at the wildlife. He picks her up and carries her to a nearby Raptor.
* Lee Adama and Kara Thrace notice and meet Bill Adama there. The Adamas hug, and Bill Adama gives Thrace a final greeting of "[[Nothing but the rain]]" before he hugs and kisses her. Thrace and Lee wave goodbye to a smiling Roslin as the Raptor ascends.

* Lee realizes that his father isn't coming back. Kara Thrace tells Lee that she isn't coming back, either. "I just know that I am done here. I've completed my journey...and it feels good."

* A flashback scene, back in Thrace's apartment, where Thrace dares Lee to make love to her on her dining room table. But before they could do anything, the crash of a glass partially awakens Zak, causing the two to realize what they were doing. They shake hands and say goodbye.

* "Today is the first day of the rest of your life, Lee," Kara Thrace says. As Lee tells her of desire to explore and climb mountains, he turns to find that Kara Thrace has vanished, as if she were a ghost. "Goodbye, Kara," he says. "You won't be forgotten."
* A flashback scene shows the pigeon that would be trapped in Lee's apartment after his visit to Kara and Zak. It looks at Lee and flies out of the window and away.

* In another flashback from six years prior, Laura Roslin returns to stand by the side of the bed, thanks Sean Allison, but tells him that they will not meet this way again, and asks him to leave. As the man leaves, Roslin returns to her bathroom, lights a cigarette, then makes a phone call. She accepts the opportunity to work on Mayor [[Richard Adar]]'s campaign.

* Bill Adama's Raptor flies over flamingos. "So much..life," Laura Roslin says...her final words as she closes her eyes and quietly passes.
* Moments go by before Bill realizes that she is gone.
* In tears, Bill removes his wedding ring and places it on Laura's hand. "Right there...I'm going to build our cabin right there," he says, pointing to some hills.

===Act 10===

* A line of people walk into the wilderness, calm and ready to take on the world. Romo Lampkin appears to be in charge. Saul and Ellen Tigh bring up the rear.
* The Agathons walk as well, Helo using a makeshift crutch, talking of hunting and other pleasantries. Hera runs about in play, a smile on her face.

* Gaius Baltar and Caprica-Six look on at Hera playing as the Virtual Six and Baltar reappear. When Caprica-Six questions if the protection of Hera was all that God wanted of them, the Virtual Six replies, "God's plan is never complete." "Great..." Baltar replies sullenly.
* Virtual-Baltar counters, "I think it's safe to say that, from now on, your lives will be less...eventful."

* Another flashback to Caprica City. Baltar offers Caprica-Six an opportunity to "peek" into the [[Colonial Defense Mainframe]].

* When Baltar points to some land, he recalls his heritage, and [[Julius Baltar|his father]], and that he knows a bit about farming, to a bit of tears.

* Bill Adama sits, looking out into the hills and valley. "I laid out the cabin today. It's going to have an easterly view. You should see the light that we get here. When the sun comes from behind those mountains. It's almost heavenly. It reminds me of you."
* As he speaks, the camera pans up to show Adama, seated near the cairn he built for Laura Roslin's body.

* The scene turns to show Hera playing and looking upward. Scenes of wood and desert and sea pass by in a geologic montage to reveal an Earth city - New York City - 150,000 years later.

* As a fly-over of the city appears, a voice-over of Virtual-Six reads from a magazine article of the Tanzanian discovery of the bones of what scientists believe are the remains of the [[w:mitochondrial Eve|mitochondrial Eve]], the matrilineal common ancestor of mankind.

* As [[Ron D. Moore|a man reads]] about the scientific discovery, the Virtual Six and Baltar look over his shoulder at a magazine article of the news, and reveal what they know...the bones are that of Hera Agathon, born of a Cylon mother and a human father. No other people on the street appear to notice them.

* The two talk of the technology and decadence, of whether this Earth will repeat the mistakes of generations past and again become overwhelmed by their creations. The Six thinks not, believing it to be God's plan.

* "You know it doesn't like that name," Baltar says. Six only looks back in mild defiance. "Silly. Silly me," he replies as the two walk away into the metropolis.

* The episode concludes with scenes of robots, from toys to advanced automatons growing and evolving, as Jimi Hendrix's--Earth's popular version--of "[[The Music|All Along The Watchtower]]" plays, ending with an image of [http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-10744-Robot+or+Human%3F+Here%27s+ACTROID.html an attractive-looking female automaton] gazing out over Times Square from a giant outdoor television screen as Six and Baltar walk off into the distance.

== Notes ==
===The fate of the Colonials and Rebel Cylons===
*This episode marks the deaths of [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]], [[John Cavil]], [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]], [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]], [[Tory Foster]], [[Samuel Anders]], [[Laura Roslin]]. and all the Cylons at the Colony. [[Kara Thrace]], having fulfilled her purpose, vanishes without a trace and is taken to a place unknown. In detail:
**Boomer was killed by [[Athena]] in revenge for taking [[Hera]], sleeping with [[Helo]] and beating her in the lavatory. Also she was a security threat and there was no way to take her along and watch her effectively. Despite her redeeming act of giving back Hera, she couldn't be trusted.
**Cavil takes his own life in Galactica's CIC when the resurrection designs are irrevocably lost with the death of Tory Foster.
***It is unknown what happens to the other members of the Cavil/Number One line. The death of only a single Cavil is depicted, but any other Number Ones would face eventual extinction like all other humanoid Cylons.
****This particular Cavil is most likely is the same John Cavil that has been carrying on an affair with Boomer for months. Boomer would most likely be in an affair with only one particular Cavil. The same one who spoke with [[Ellen Tigh]] in [[No Exit]]; was killed by [[D'Anna Biers]] in the [[Resurrection Hub]] (and was one of the last Cylons to resurrect before it was destroyed) during the Civil War; before that was killed by [[Natalie]] in a Baseship at the start of the Civil War; and before that was shot by Baltar in the Temple of Five on the Algae planet (from his recollection to Ellen). He is also the same one who had sexual relations with his own "mother" Ellen Tigh before she regained her memories, and tortured and maimed her husband during the occupation of New Caprica. These are not certainties but for dramatic purposes it fits to follow one particular Cavil rather than a variety of Number Ones. It would deminish the emotional investment in the character to do otherwise.
**Racetrack and Skulls's Raptor is struck by an asteroid fragment, puncturing their canopy and killing them on impact (as well as at least three marines on board). When another asteroid hits the Raptor, Racetrack's limp hand hits the launch button that fires the nuclear missiles.
**Tory is killed by [[Galen Tyrol]] upon his learning Tory murdered his wife Cally during the [[Final Five]]'s mutual and involuntary sharing memories while downloading the Resurrection designs to the Colony.
***This is ironic considering that in their previous lives on the original Earth the pair were madly in love and planned on marriage.
**Anders pilots ''Galactica'' and guided the Fleet into the Sun.
**Roslin dies peacefully as Adama gives her a bird's eye view of their new home in a Raptor. She is the first Colonial human to die on Earth. During the Raptor flight she passd away exactly one minute and thirty seconds from being shown the spot Bill Adama wanted to build his-their-cabin.
**Since they have neither female Cylons nor Resurrection technology, the Cavils, Simons and Dorals on the various Cylon baseships will presumably die out.
**Kara is presumably taken by the same force, stated to be God by [[Virtual Six]], that resurrected her.
*The fates of numerous supporting characters are not shown.
**[[Brendan Costanza|Hot Dog]] is last seen flying his Viper back to ''Galactica'' after the initial cease fire. He likely survives since there is no mention of him being killed, and he is alive when the truce is called and the remaining Vipers and Raptors safely land on ''Galactica''.
**Since she isn't seen volunteering in the hanger deck or depicted in the attack, it is very likely that [[Diana Seelix]] didn't volunteer.
**Ishay is not seen after Roslin leaves sickbay.
**The episode also never touches on what becomes of [[Cult of Baltar|Baltar's cult]], including [[Jeanne]], [[Paulla]] and [[Tracy Anne]]. Founding member Jeanne who is absent from the finale but it is perfectly safe to assume that she and her fellow Cultist are with the people on the planet. Paulla and Tracy Anne were last scene on the last Raptor trying to get Baltar to come with them to the Baseship where many of the civilians including Baltar's flock were taken. They were unsuccessful and Paulla and Tracy-Anne went to the baseship without incident. Jeanne was almost certainly there and with the settlement on Earth.
*The recurring subplot about the [[Sons of Ares]] and its growing conflict with the [[Cult of Baltar]] is unresolved.
*The Raiders are seen using missiles for the first time since the Fall of the Twelve Colonies.
*Racetrack's Raptor, and possibly the other ones in its flight group destroyed in the assault on the Colony, was carrying the last nukes from ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'', marking the end of humanity's use of these weapons (which were used to destroy the Twelve Colonies at the start of the series) for another 150,000 years. Presumably the baseship's store of nukes remains intact and some weren't "barrowed" by the humans for the attack.
*It is very likely that Saul Tigh, Galen Tyrol and definitely Tory Foster never recovered their first hand memories of life before and after Old Earth and before Cavil killed them and blocked their true memories when they resurrected. Tory Foster will certainly never have that chance since she was killed by Tyrol in a fit of rage over Tory's murder of Cally.
*The tracing of the human blood line through [[wikipedia:Mitochondrial DNA|Mitochondrial DNA]] to the furthest maternal common ancestor and dubbing her [[wikipedia:Mitochondrial Eve|Mitochondrial Eve]] is a real theory. Mitochondrial Eve was the ''matrilineal most recent common ancestor'', the most recent person in the female line that '''all''' of humanity can be said to be from. In other words, Hera is everybody's mother's mother's ... mother's mother. This does NOT imply that she is the only ancestor of modern humans. In fact, it implies that each female alive at the time either has no surviving descendants, or is ALSO a common ancestor (though not a purely maternal one). This also means that we as a species are related to Athena Hera's mother.
** In the series, Hera is Mitochondrial Eve, meaning that all of modern humanity is a combination of Colonial humanity and Cylon, although there maybe ancestors of native New Earth in the current population from the male line of descendants.
** The fossilized remains are said to be of a young woman, indicating Hera does not live to see a middle age, though she has children before she dies. Specifically, she must have had daughters to pass on her mitochondrial DNA.
** Since mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the mother only, and Hera has a Cylon mother, her mitochondrial DNA and that of all her descendants is pure Cylon making us all direct decendents of Athena.
*Also in the podcast, RDM is happy to confirm that Tyrol did find some natives in Scotland and ended up being the 'King of the Scots', apparently since Aaron Douglas loved the idea of Scottish civilization (with its tradition of great engineers) being descended from Tyrol. This may suggest that Galen Tyrol, a male Cylon, had successfully mated and produced children with a New Earth native human female to produce at least one other hybrid.
*Gaius Baltar, with deliberate forethought, gave [[Caprica Six]] the back door to the Colonial defenses. He still did not know Caprica Six was a Cylon, but he did commit willful corporate espionage knowing he would be punished for it if caught. Previously Baltar's giving of Caprica Six the secrets was implied - or at least inferred - to be from naive vanity to impress his girlfriend Caprica Six. The Colonists still don't know this.
*The Colonials never did find out that Gaius Baltar gave [[Gina Inviere]] a nuclear device on the space liner ''[[Cloud 9]]'' destroying that liner and all on board near what would be called [[New Caprica]]. That same explosion would bring the Cylons to New Caprica a year later due to them being a light year away at the time they saw it, making him responsible for the occupation.
*Humanity, along with the Cylons, finally reaches its new homeworld, names it Earth, and the humans of today are the distant descendants of Hera.
*Before deciding that ''Galactica'' should reach Earth in prehistoric times, Moore toyed with the idea of having the Fleet arrive during the Hellenistic period and formed the basis of the ancient Greek religion and society. However, this idea was rejected as it suggested that the Colonials blessed only Western civilization with their knowledge rather than all of humanity, and it did not acknowledge Hera's importance. Moore read an article on the idea of a common human ancestor which he decided should be Hera. This also explains why the Fleet personnel landed in Africa (the network had been suggesting it should be North America, presumably to match the final shot of Season 3).
**According to the podcast for the episode, the destruction of the Fleet and the spreading out of the surviving Colonials over the planet's surface was supposed to be a sign of humanity's committal to their new world, not necessarily promoting a Luddite agenda. The comparison that is drawn is Cortes burning his ships on the shores of central America so his men would not have a way of retreating if things got difficult. However, RDM later mentions that one of the last shots was to have been of the Colonials destroying their last Raptors, which suggests that the Luddite approach was more what they were aimng for.
*There was no final population count given after the engagement with the Cavil forces. However, there were no reported deaths by accident or violence before the engagement so the population count is most likely the same as it was in "[[Daybreak, Part I]]" before the attack on the Cylon Colony, 39,516.
**A new population count post-engagement is given in the separate iTunes release of Daybreak, Part III. The count is 39,406, putting Colonial casualties from the battle at 110. Then shortly after their arrival on New Earth former President of the 12 Colonies of Kobol Laura Roslin dies, and Kara Thrace vanishes without a trace. From this we can derive that the number of people settled on New Earth is 39,404. This does not include the unknown number of humanoid Cylons from the baseship (which probably was never stated) and possibly Athena and the remaining three of the Final Five who aren't considered human survivors.
*The Centurions are granted full independence and subsequently depart in the rebel Baseship to pursue their own destiny. Their status 150,000 years later remains a mystery. The Colonials and humanoid Cylons believe it is unlikely they will be a threat, as they have no reason to bear a grudge this time around.
*When ''Galactica'' and the Fleet fly into the Sun, only 15 ships can be seen when at least 35 ships were still in the Fleet during the Mutiny, and upwards of 90 after the events of the mini-series. However, establishing shots of the Fleet rarely show more than a dozen ships in one shot regardless, and the implication is that the entire Fleet was destroyed.
===Aftermath of the War===
*There is a poetic ring to the nature of the conflict of the Second Cylon War:
** It began with the Cylon attack on Colonies nearly wiping out mankind. It ended with the Colonial attack on the Cylon Colony very likely wiping out the Cylons who didn't join with the humans.
**Shortly after the Cylon attack on Caprica, Baltar -- having unintentionally brought about the near-annihilation of the human species -- flees Caprica when Karl Agathon gives him his place on a Raptor, feeling that his own life is less important to save than a famed scientist's. But at the end of the series, it is Baltar who puts his own life at risk for the sake of saving Agathon's daughter Hera and expresses concern for her future well being to the very end of the series (both ends of this parallel occur in wide open fields).
**Agathon and Cylon Sharon Valerii are seen together near the very beginning of the series and near the very end.
**The earliest known detail we see of Gaius Baltar's life is his effort to break away from his family history as farmers, and his shame over his heritage. The last event we see in his embrace of a new beginning as a farmer.
**Baltar and Number Six are seen together near the very beginning of the series and near the very end.
**The earliest event we see from Laura Roslin's life (retroactively) is the death of her sisters, killed during transit. The last event of her life that we see is her own death, which occurs during transit.
**The series starts and finishes with two "endings" for ''Galactica'': its scheduled decommissioning in the mini-series, and its destruction by setting course into the sun in the finale.
**The series begins with a selfish decision Baltar makes (to give Caprica Six access to military mainframes) that nearly destroys Colonial humanity. It ends with a selfless decision Baltar makes (to fulfill his destiny in saving Hera) that gives Colonial humanity a new start in the form of Hera.
** At the beginning of the series, William Adama divorces his wife soon after returning to Colonial military service. At the end of the series, Adama abandons all trappings of the military to be with his unofficial wife Laura Roslin, upon whose finger he puts his wedding ring just after she dies.
**This poetic ring is also in line with [[Romo Lampkin]]'s observation of him being President of it being "Poetic justice" and Lee Adama's "What goes around, comes around" since Lampkin originally pushed him to be a politician. Indeed, the Cylons were revisited by the destruction they wrought on the human Colonies.

===Miscellaneous===
*The title of the episode is a reference to the German philosopher [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche Friedrich Nietzsche’s] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dawn_(book) book] of the same title. This is appropriate since there are numerous references to Nietzsche’s philosophy throughout the episode. Most obviously, Baltar, in his speech to Cavil in the CIC, states that "God is a force of nature … [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Good_and_Evil_(book) beyond good and evil]." ''Beyond Good and Evil'' is another of Nietzsche’s works. Baltar goes on to say "Good and evil—we created those," echoing Nietzsche’s claim in the First Treatise of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Genealogy_of_Morality ''On the Genealogy of Morality''] that morality, including the concepts of "good" and "evil," are human constructs whose utility must be examined. Baltar also asks Cavil if he wants to "break the cycle of birth, death, rebirth…" which recalls the [[Pythia|Pythian prophecy]] that "All this has happened before. All this will happen again." This is also a reference to Nietzsche's concept of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return#Friedrich_Nietzsche ''eternal recurrence''], that living one's life exactly the same, over and over for eternity, can be the worst of punishments (for those who live trivial lives) but also the greatest of gifts (for those who live great lives).
*With the ramming of [[The Colony]] by ''Galactica'' Hera's prophetic [[Projection]] at the very beginning of [[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]] came true. In her projection as she was playing on ''Galactica'''s tactical light table with the models of ''Galactica'', three Baseships and three Cylon Raiders, she rammed a model Baseship with the model of ''Galactica''.
*Shortly after recovering from Boomer shooting him, in [[The Farm]] he went to her corps in ''Galactica's'' morgue and asked "Why?" There is no indication that during the weeks that Boomer was held on ''Galactica'', during and between the events of [[Deadlock]] and [[Someone to Watch Over Me]] that Admiral Adama ever visited her to find out why she shot him but was clearly still understandably bitter about it in "Someone to Watch Over Me" Intellectually he knows she was programmed, but he never went to resolve the emotional aspect of it. Now with her death Adama will never know the answer to that question, assuming he still wanted to know which if he didn't visit her indicates he didn't care any longer. For her part, no indication is given that Boomer asked to see him.
*Saul Tigh in order to bring peace between Mankind and the Cylons he offered almost the same exact deal that the Final Five offered to the Centurions over 40 years before during the [[First Cylon War]]: If they halt the attacks on humanity "now and forever" they will give them resurrection. Durig the first war it was resurrection '''and''' helping them create biolgical humaniod Cylons.
*During Adama's polygraph examination for his high paying civilian job post retirement from the service he was asked Are you a Cylon? by the examiner. This is one more indication that it possibly known to some in power that the Cylons were working on humanoid looking versions of themselves although it was not widely known publicly.
**It is clear from dialog in the episode that the question was meant as a control to get a baseline reading. Polygraph interviewers begin with a series of questions that they already know are true or false; like the subject's name, date of birth, etc. Asking Adama if he's a Cylon was simply an absurd question, the answer to which would obviously be "no," for later comparison when the real questioning began.
***True, but remember what young Lt. William "Husker" Adama saw in that facility he crash landed in just minutes before the end of the [[First Cylon War]] in [[Razor]]. People being experimented on and a vat. I would think he reported what he saw to his superiors. And of course there could be the revelations of the up coming "Caprica" and some knowing the research Graystone was working on which his own father was privy to. The Examiner may believe his question was absurd but it could be the reason Adama hesitated and was offended and not laugh it off as the absurd question.
****Dialogue ''explicitly'' establishes that the question was simply a control for the polygraph. Adama's offense is clearly based on the questioning of his word, as established, again expressly, with his response and implicitly in context throughout the episode and the series. The question has '''absolutely nothing''' to do with a substantive inquiry about whether Adama is a Cylon.
*According to the podcast, the ''Galactica'' was originally going to jump right inside the Colony for the attack, but RDM changed it because he wanted the ship to have open space around it for the final Viper/Raider dogfight.
*''Galactica'' is shown executing a jump without retracting her flight pods, which was earlier said to be required<ref>Special effects continuity errors have sometimes shown ''Galactica'' jumping with pods extended and emerging with them retracted.</ref> ([[Miniseries, Night 2]]). However, it is possible that the resulting stresses from jumping with the pods extended contribute to ''Galactica'''s structural failure.
**There may be a clue in the nature of the damage incurred following the jump. A wave-like motion appears to run the length of the ship; perhaps FTL jumps always inflict similar stresses, but under normal conditions the nesting of the flight pods into their recessed 'valleys' (and their support arms into the presumably void spaces between them) lends structural reinforcement to counter said forces.
*According to the podcast, when Laura asks "Where have you taken us, Kara?" Starbuck was supposed to reply, "Somewhere along the watchtower." Director Michael Rhymer did not like this idea and simply didn't shoot the line. Moore later agreed that it was better not to have Kara speak.
*The shot of ''Galactica'' flying over the Moon and reaching Earth was inspired by real-life shots from the Apollo space program, specifically Apollo 8's shot of coming around the dark side of the Moon and the Apollo 17 shot of the Earth itself.
*A portion of this episode was being filmed in [[w:Kamloops| Kamloops, BC]] during the week of June 16, 2008. Local extras of all ages were utilized for this scene (or scenes) and were required to have an athletic build and a clean-cut look, or to be slim with long hair or dreadlocks. Extras were auditioned at Best Western room 137 (in Kamloops) on June 12th <ref>http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_thompson_nicola/kamloopsthisweek/entertainment/19788509.html</ref>. The rural area surrounding Kamloops was previously utilized to depict the [[algae planet]] in "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]" and "[[Rapture]]".
**According to the episode podcast, the sequences on Earth at the end were the ones filmed at Kamloops. Some CGI was used to remove distinctive Canadian evergreen trees from the background and replace them with more Africa-looking foilage, but otherwise the landscape was actually a decent match for Africa.
*Although Part I had a runtime of one hour, Part II will run for two hours. An even longer cut of Daybreak will later be released on DVD. <ref>{{cite_news|first=|last=|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/07/talking-battles.html|title=Talking 'Battlestar Galactica's' finale, 'Caprica' and the 'Battlestar' TV movie with Ron Moore}}</ref>
*The ''[http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Kodiak Kodiak]'', the command ship of the Global Defense Initiative (GDI) faction from the computer game ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Tiberian_Sun Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun]'' is seen among the fleet in one establishing shot.
*The final scene, like most of the rest of the series, was filmed in Vancouver, BC, and not in New York City at all. In the final scene with Angel Baltar and Six, "Bread Garden Bakery and Cafe", W Pender St, and Dunsmuir St are visible, all of which are within a couple blocks of each other along Granville St in downtown Vancouver. [http://tinyurl.com/crgd2x] Furthermore, a bus passes by just before the credit, sporting the colors of the Coast Mountain Bus Company.
**According to the podcast, Ronald D. Moore was wearing a Jimi Hendrix T-shirt in the final shot, but they chose not to show this. The shot of the realistic Japanese female robot was found by Terry Moore online and was referred to as the 'next' Number Six by RDM.
**Also according to the podcast, Baltar saying "It doesn't like that name," is significant, and is indeed meant to confirm that whatever 'God' is in the series, it isn't necessarily what the name implies.
*The Centurion Model 0005 in the museum case is a retcon. In the [[Miniseries]], it was an Original Series costume, with the black skirt and non-exposed joints. In this episode, it is a CGI First War Centurion 0005 with exposed joints and no black skirt.
**It is not explained why the museum flight pod is shown to be in nearly pristine condition when, in addition to four years of battles and the atmosphere-drop over New Caprica, a Cylon Heavy Raider crashed through the overhead window and crushed several of the exhibits in ''[[Scattered]]''. Repairing the museum and exhibits would have seemed to be a low priority during subsequent events.
*Reference (possibly intentional) is made to Olmos' earlier work: Adama's flushing of flamingos while flying a Raptor is reminiscent of the flamingos flushing during the opening credits of Miami Vice, the TV series in which Edward James Olmos co-starred.
*The news network covering the story "Advances in Robotics" as Angel Baltar and Six pass by is [http://www.msnbc.com MSNBC], the 24 hour news network arm of the NBC Universal media conglomerate which also owns the SyFy Channel (at the time the SciFi Channel), which produces ''Battlestar Galactica'' and airs the series in the United States.
**The last advance in robotics shown was a humanoid "cybernetic robot" named "ACTROID", a Japanese design that was unveiled in 2005.[http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-10744-Robot+or+Human%3F+Here%27s+ACTROID.html].
**The ACTROID's appearance in the final scene bookends the first scene of the mini-series in which several "traditional" robotic Cylons appear, following by the first appearance of the attractive humanoid Cylon, Number Six.
*Although many of the magazines on the newsstand appear familiar, close examination reveals that at least some have made-up names. A magazine that appears at first glance to be ''Sports Illustrated'' is actually ''Sports Limited''. Also, although the magazine read by Angel Six and Baltar (and Ronald Moore) closely resembles ''National Geographic'', at no time is the complete title of the magazine or its full logo actually shown on screen; furthermore, the back cover of the magazine is solid yellow whereas actual issues of National Geographic always have advertising on the back cover.
*Initially, Helo and Athena were supposed to die and Hera would be raised by Gaius Baltar and Caprica-Six. This would make sense as in the [[Opera House]] vision Baltar and Caprica-Six take Hera into the Opera House and Athena and Roslin don't make it inside. It also lends well for a symbolical structure of the series: Caprica-Six kills a child at the beginning and raises one at the end, they destroyed one civilisation and then at the end they nurture the foundation of another one.
*Angel Six makes a reference to the Law of Averages: "Let a complex system repeat itself long enough; eventually something surprising might occur." She is actually referring to the Law of Large Numbers. The Law of Averages is a mistaken belief that the outcome of an event is affected by the outcome of previous iterations of the same event.

== Analysis ==
===Who and what guided them===
*The coordinates that Thrace enters, 1123 / 6536 / 5321 correspond to the notation of the Final Four theme [http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/theme-watchtower.jpg]. The song is in a C# Phrygian scale (enharmonic with A major and F# minor). 1 represents C#, and each higher integer indicates the next note in the scale, such that

:1 = C#
:2 = D
:3 = E
:(4 = F#)
:5 = G#
:6 = A
:(7 = B)

:The linked graphic omits the first and last note of the theme, but both can be heard in the soundtrack during the jump montage. The second "five" (in the third chunk of four digits) corresponds to the tuplet G#/A/G#, effectively omitting the trill up to high A. Every note has the same duration except for the last two, which are twice the length of the others.
*The Virtual Beings are angels of God who came to guide Baltar and Caprica Six in their destiny of protecting Hera.
*Kara Thrace is an angel who was sent back from the dead to guide humanity to a new home the coordinates of which were hidden in The Music.
*The final scenes of this episode, in fast-forwarding through time and attempting to set the entire work as a backstory, make the ending similar to that of the film [[Wikipedia:How the West Was Won (film)|How the West Was Won]].
* There are at least two distinct angels. They have known each other long and born witness to Kobol and the original Earth, as well as the Twelve Colonies and the new Earth. They can walk around and observe events even when no one else present can see them, though they may have the ability to appear to anyone they wish. In the final scene, a man walking by the Angel Six appears to check her out (though this may have been a simple acting goof or an actual pedestrian happening by).
* The constellation [[w:Ursa Major|Ursa Major]] (commonly known as the "Big Dipper") appears briefly in this episode. It makes only the second appearance of a recognizable star pattern in the series, the first being Orion in "[[The Ties That Bind]]" (Orion is also visible in this episode).
* Adama's statement that New Earth is "one million light years" from Kobol must be taken as exaggeration or an error. The Milky Way is 100 000 light years across, and earlier statements in the show indicate that it considerable time to travel much shorter distances.
** It's possible that Adama's "million light years" comment is meant metaphorically instead of literally, in essence saying the Colonials have come an unthinkable distance to reach their new home.
===The reproduction prospects of the races===
*It is possible that some Baseships of Ones, Fours, and Fives were not at the [[Colony]] when it was destroyed, given the fact that they were observed jumping in and out of the system by Racetrack and Skulls. However, as noted in the "Notes" section it is unlikely that the Cavil, Simon and Doral lines will continue without Cylon females. The [[Three]]s are extinct with the last copy [[D'Anna Biers]] herself dying on the original Earth; Boomer was killed in the Colony (and in anycase couldn't single handedly save the lines even if she were alive); and the last Sixes and Eights staying with the humans on the second Earth. However, there is the possibility of having a few remaining human females from the survivors of the various Colonial worlds including [[Caprica]], if they still exist, being viable, so the lines could in theory continue. However, given the total lack of success in the forced breeding of Cylons and humans and the Cavil, Dorals and Simon's cynical view of love, an apparent requirement of conception between both Cylon-Cylon and Cylon-human combinations, with their hatred of humans it is unlikely. One final option could remain. The Final Five was able to download some of the Resurrection technology data to the Cavil Faction before Tyrol in his rage at Tory broke the connection. It is possible that the Cavil faction could extrapolate from the data they did get to recreate the technology, but only if it was transmitted to Baseships beyond the destroyed Colony. How long this could take or even if it is possible depends on how much and/or if the most critical and unique part of the technology was downloaded.
*On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and the male being say 60 to take an extreme. However, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and [[Boxey (RDM)|slightly older]] in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth, perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born-if any-very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself It is possible given the precedent of Karl and Sharon Agathon Giaus Baltar and Caprica Six could had had a child particularly since they truly love each other. It is a theoretical possibility that a Leoben could had taken a human wife (they are inclined to do so given one Leoben infatuation with Kara Thrace even before her specialness was known to them) In any case it Human-Cylon offspring are an much more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is still harder than with human-human pairings. This would make any children pool of those pairings, while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, would still quite small number compared to pure human offspring frequency of birth. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely of the three since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist. Throw in the possibility is Hera mating with the New Earth native tribal humans males then the likely hood of Hera having a child with a human is very likely.
* The Final Five can be considered ancestors of present-day humanity because they created Athena and the other Eights, Twos, and Sixes.
===Miscellaneous===
*[[Ronald D. Moore]] appears as himself holding a ''National Geographic'' magazine in New York City.
*The shelters erected by the Colonials on Earth resemble [[Wikipedia:Quonset hut|Quonset huts]], World War II-era temporary structures.
* In another piece of irony, the two beings most directly responsible for the attack and destruction of the 12 Colonies, Gaius Baltar and Caprica Six, get to live on a lush green New Earth in love with each other.
* Even if humanity does repeat the cycle, Lee Adama's plan would seem to have had some success, because it will have taken much, much longer to do so this time around.
* Ellen says that hopefully the Hybrids will ''still'' respond to Anders' commands. In other words, they would recognize him from the time the Final Five ran the Colony.
*Cavil's suicide, in the way it is framed and executed, closely mirrors the televised 1987 suicide of American politician [[w:Budd Dwyer|Budd Dwyer]].
* Adama's drunken moment, where he sits against a wall, vomits, and then looks up at the night sky, echoes [[w:Oscar Wilde|Oscar Wilde]]'s famous aphorism: ''We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.''
* Though it was never explicitly states in the Miniseries or after, it seems that TIgh was indeed planning to retire whenever Adama decided to leave the Colonial Military. The flashbacks in this episode to Saul and Ellen Tigh in the bar make it clear that Tigh is planning on following Adama out of the service. However Adama, as viewers come to see, decides ultimately to finish out his last years as the CO of ''Galactica'' despite reservations. Tigh obviously followed. This also sheds more light on Tigh's eventual estrangement from Ellen- which was where their relationship was at in the miniseries. The bitterness she doubtless felt at Tigh once again choosing Bill Adama over her was probably a factor in not only her noted loose behaviour, but their growing estrangement before the war.
*It is not entirely clear when in Adama's career he decided to pursue the idea of a civilian job as seen in both parts of "Daybreak". Dialogue during the lie detector test scene suggests Adama has been given his orders to command Galactica, but is considering resigning before taking up the post. However Adama notes in his intitial interview with his prospective employer in the previous episode that he has already commanded two battlestars. One of these is obviously [[''Valkyrie'']], but it is not clear if Adama is already referring to Galactica as the second command (which could also suggest he is already commanding the ''Galactica'' at the time this flashback is set and is considering his reisgnation when on leave from that ship), or to another battlestar that Adama once commanded but has never been mentioned before.

== Questions ==
{{cleanup}}
===Characters===
* Did any copies of Cavil, Doral, or Simon survive? (See Notes)
**It is likely that some did on other baseships.
*** If so, did they try to leave a legacy through the purely mechanical models, or by continuing the previously abandoned research which created the hybrids?
* Why does Cavil choose to commit suicide?
** [[RDM]] has stated <ref>http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html</ref> that the manner of Cavil's death was suggested by [[Dean Stockwell]]: "I just really think that in that moment, Cavil would realize the jig is up and it's all hopeless and just put a gun in his mouth and shoot himself."
* Are Thrace and Anders together after Thrace's disappearance?
* Do Baltar and Caprica-Six marry? Do they go into isolation like Adama and Tyrol, or will they be near a human colony?
* Since Caprica Six and Gaius Baltar genuinely love each other, do they eventually have a child?
* Were Caprica Six and Baltar "supposed" to bring about the destruction of the Twelve Colonies?
* Do Adama and Tyrol stay isolated for the rest of their lives?
* In what part of Earth (a northerly island with "highlands") did Galen Tyrol settle? Scotland?
** Scotland, according an interview with RDM <ref>http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html</ref>
* Why was Romo Lampkin chosen as President? Wouldn't a member of the Quorum of Captains have been selected?
** They likely needed a "neutral" party and had no time to hold an election. Also, a bond of trust had been established between Lee Adama and Romo in previous episodes.
* Why was Doral convinced that the Final Five and the humans were trying to deceive the Cylons? The download was disrupted by Tyrol alone, not the other four Cylons. For that matter, when Tyrol attacked Foster, why didn't anyone try to separate them?
** Things happened so fast and so suddenly that there simply wasn't enough time for anyone to get control of the situation. Doral panicked when he realized that the Colony's hybrids were disabled and the first obvious explanation that came to mind was that they had been tricked.
* When the Final Five interfaced with each other during the download, did any of them regain their memories of events from before Cavil wiped them?
* Assuming that (as Tigh indicated to Adama in [[Revelations]]) the Final Five Cylons age but the rest do not, what will become of Caprica-Six, Athena, and any other survivors of the non-Final Five models? How will Helo and Baltar cope with the non-aging of their spouses as they themselves age?
** Since Helo and Baltar deeply love their Cylon spouses, they will probably not care too much about this issue.
** As the humanoid Cylons are biological by nature, they will age at some rate. Considering that they are nearly identical biologically to humans, they likely age at a similar rate. It is likely that they might have previously prevented the appearance of aging due to frequent resurrection. Since that is no longer an option, they would age and die like the humans do.
** What Saul and Bill discuss is not necessarily fact; they don't know everything about the Cylons and characters are often seen speculating throughout the show in ways that have turned out to be false. For eg. in Season 1, some were scared people had been "replaced" by Cylons, which never happens.
** Ellen said John Cavil was once a boy, but this is not necessarily literal.
*** It is not. The [[Significant Eight]] were never physically children. Ellen was referring to their emotional level of maturity when they first emerged.
* Had the download been successful, would Cavil have upheld his end of the bargain?

===God and the Angels===
* Why does God want the Cycle to be broken?
* If "it" doesn't like to be called [[God (RDM)|God]], what does "it" like to be called?
** This is a possible reference to the numerous other names attributed to God by different religions.
** This may also indicate that "it" is not God in the strict sense of being an omniscient/omnipotent deity that has always existed and always will exist, but that "it" is something else of great power that followers of different religions mistakenly interpret as God.
* Why do the angels still look like Baltar and Six 150,000 years later?
** It is possible that the Number Six line was based upon the appearance of the being that presented itself to Galen Tyrol and the others prior to the nuclear destruction of the first Earth, as the five modeled the new eight after people they knew, Cavil was Ellen's father etc. That said, the Angel Six may actually appear as such.
* Is God related to the Lords of Kobol or something completely different?
* How many angels are there? Are the ones that resemble Six and Baltar the same as those that appeared to the Final Five and Thrace, or distinct?
* Why have angels not been appearing to the Final Five since Old Earth's destruction, only to Baltar, Six, and Thrace?
* In retrospect, was the vision of [[Elosha]] that appeared to Laura Roslin in [[The Hub]] a hallucination or an angel?

===Kara's Destiny===
* In what way, if any, did Starbuck fulfill her [[The Destiny|destiny]] as the "harbinger of death" that would lead humanity to its "end"?
** The pure Human and pure Cylon races both came to an end due to Starbuck's part in bringing them together. Furthermore, she helped bring about the apparent death of the Cycle.
*** It could be also argued that she fulfilled her destiny in that ''modern humanity'' came to an end when the Colonial humans removed all technology from their lives and chose to live a more primitive existence with both the Cylons and the tribesman they discovered on Earth.
* Why did the First Hybrid not want humanity to follow Thrace?
** It appears that there was a faction of Cylons who did not accept the Final Five's offer to have humanoid models built for them, so it stands to reason they were the most "pure" Cylons following their own path and would not want to share human DNA.
** It is also possible that "they must not follow her" refers to Kara's fatal journey to Earth between [[Maelstrom]] and [[Crossroads, Part II]] to a potential disaster which could have happened if Adama chose to follow Kara's directions with the entire fleet in [[Six of One]] rather than sending her on the [[Demetrius]].
* Why was Starbuck not aware of her true nature until after her role had been fulfilled?
* What is the nature of Starbuck's journey to the First Earth, crash, and return in the unscathed Viper? How did she "jump" to its coordinates? If her return was engineered by God to use her as an angel and bring humanity to Earth, why do so in a way that raised more questions about how it occurred than it answered?
* Was there anyone like Kara Thrace in previous iterations of the Cycle?
* How will Lee explain Kara's sudden disappearance to those at his settlement?
** People will probably just assume she was killed in the battle or that she went into isolation like Adama and Tyrol.
* Can Kara Thrace ever return again?

===Hera===
* Will analysis of Hera's remains reveal that she was not a normal human? (See Notes)
** What we deem a modern human is in fact a mixture of Colonial human and humanoid Cylon. However, modern humanity should have more human than Cylon ancestors.
* Who did Hera eventually have children with? A human or a Cylon? (See Analysis)
* Has any of modern Humanity inherited Hera's ability to project?
* If Hera was found to be "Mitochondrial Eve", wouldn't that mean that the 8's/Sharon were as well, seeing as that is where Hera got her Mitochondrial DNA?
**As framed in the show, no, because archeologists discovered Hera's remains, not Athena's. The more interesting question might be, "where did Saul, Ellen, etc. get the mDNA to create the Sharon line in the first place? Was that mDNA human, or Cylon?"
***Athena's remains, along with Helo's, were found. The answer to this question lies in the definition of Mitochondrial Eve, which is very strictly defined as the most recent common ancestor of matrilinear ancestry. It can only be held by one person at a time. This means Athena is, in fact, a matrilinear common ancestor, but is not the most recent one, and is thus not Mitochondrial Eve. Note that because Athena is not the most common matrilinear ancestor, this means she and Helo either only had Hera or had no other daughters. Note that this also means Hera had more than one daughter.

===Other Questions===
* Will humanity repeat the Cycle?
** The last scene indicates that things could go either way.
* What becomes of the Centurions?
** Do they go after the remnants of Cavil's forces, or go their separate ways?
** Will the freed Centurions eventually develop their own humanoid forms, or develop in a completely other direction?
** If there are descendants of the Centurions 150,000 years later, do they remember their history?
*The [[Final Five]] were able to download some of the Resurrection technology data to the Cavil Faction Cylons before [[Galen Tyrol]] in his rage over discovering [[Cally]]'s murder by [[Tory Foster]] broke the connection. Would the surviving Cavils, Dorals, and Simons be able to rebuild Resurrection technology from extrapolating from the data they did receive?
**Unlikely, as the only copies of this data would've been on board the Colony and in the minds of the final five. As Tory died and the Colony was destroyed, none of the remaining Cylons would have access to this information.
* What becomes of the baseships seen orbiting the Colony?
** Since the Fleet's baseship with its liberated Centurion crew is seen departing for parts unknown, perhaps they united.
* Are any other human-Cylon hybrids born on Earth, or do the Leobens, Sixes, and Sharons remain childless?
** Since the key to Cylon-Cylon or Cylon-human copulation seems to depend upon a profoundly genuine sense of love, it would likely be entirely dependent on any humans choosing to mate with the Twos, Sixes and Eights to fully love them. The same would likely be true for mating pairs of Twos and Sixes or Twos and Eights.
* What became of the remaining prisoners aboard the [[Astral Queen]]? Were they sent out amongst the rest of the human/Cylon population, or were all of them deposited in some geographical area completely isolated from the other humans and Cylons?
* Were any of the groups provided with medicine, or medical training or at least someone with someone with a strong background in medicine before spreading out among the world?
* Since the notes of All Along the Watchtower lead to Earth, do they still serve a purpose on Earth?
* Is the evolution of humans on two planets due to the same divine hand that's been guiding other events?
* Given the strong emphasis on some kind of divine hand at work over the course of the series (specifically Kara's role as a guardian/guiding angel), is it safe to interpret the message that this Earth is a "gift from God" and that part of the discussion between Angels Six and Baltar in the closing frames is meant as an environmental message?
* Does human life evolve on planets other than Kobol and the new Earth?
* Was it coincidence or divine intervention that an asteroid caused Racetrack's hand to hit the launch button for the nuclear weapons at the exact right moment?
* Why was ''Galactica'' able to jump without retracting its [[flight pods]] when escaping from the Colony? Did this cause ''Galactica'' to break its backbone?
* Will modern humanity venture out into space and discover places such as Kobol, the original Earth, the Twelve Colonies, and New Caprica?
* How close are the two Earths? The [[Tomb of Athena]] star map showed constellations known on the second Earth, but was supposed to have been the sky as seen from the first. Does this mean they are very close indeed?
**New Earth is apparently 1 million light years from Kobol, and old Earth had to be within 2000 light years of Kobol and the 12 Colonies, based on the Final Five not having jump drives and having to travel at sub-light relativistic speeds. That means old Earth has to be nearly 1 million light years from new Earth. If this is the case, how do the constellations line up?
*** Possibly gross exaggeration (similar to "a million miles from home") of the distances involved in their travels, when considering the lengths of time it took for the fleet to initially reach Kobol, even with the hundreds of jumps that occurred during 33; and then the further time to reach the first Earth 2000 light years away. The diameter of the Milky Way galaxy is 100.000 light years and the fleet never leaves this galaxy.
**** Earth could not possibly be one million light years from the Caprica system. The next nearest metal-rich galaxy to Earth is roughly three million light years away; and the Milky Way is between 75,000 and 100,000 light years across. Further, the closing of Crossroads II clearly show our Earth, and the Ionian nebula was shown in the zoom-out/zoom-in shot to be located in the Orion arm. Or RDM frakked that detail up writing the script. . . . I doubt that, though and it's likely the line is simple hyperbole.
* How did the proto-Greek polytheistic religion of the Colonies survive nearly 150,000 years before being revived in garbled form with the rise of Greek civilization? Did it die out in practice but return through the universal subconscious?
* In what way, if any, did the Cylons' monotheistic religion and the Colonies' polytheistic religion intertwine? Did they coexist peacefully, or were there conflicts? Do modern monotheistic religions trace their traditions ultimately to those of the Cylons and the [[Cult of Baltar]]?
* During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon? At that point in history, it was unknown that the Cylons had humanoid appearance.
**The question was likely a control question to establish how a truthful response to an absurd question would register.
* Even after committing the fleet to destruction, there are still serviceable Raptors on the surface of Earth, which are jump-capable. Would any of the surviving humans or Cylons come to regret having settled on a primitive world without technology and decide to return to the stars in search of resources or other habitable planets? Is there any [[tylium]] available on Earth?
* Will modern humans discover remains of Colonial technology such as Raptors?
** Adama and the others may have eventually destroyed the Raptors, or perhaps programed them to leave Earth's orbit towards the Sun on autopilot to prevent any chance of Colonial Technology being discovered by their descendants.
* Would discoveries of several genetically identical humanoid Cylon remains spark scientific interest?
* Did the old-style [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurions]] on the Colony fight for Cavil because they had [[telencephalic inhibitor]]s, or of their own free will? If the latter, why?
**If the old-style Cylons are still the Cylons that participated in the first Cylon war, they likely still do hold a grudge against humanity for enslaving them. Consider that Cavil has claimed in the past to want "justice" for what was done to his Centurion ancestors([[No Exit]]), and that the rebel Cylons are responsible for what could be taken as a genocide against the Cylons ([[The Hub]]), it's entirely possible that these old-style Centurions would hold a grudge against humanity and as such fight against them in an invasion of their home.
**Considering these old Centurions were sentient before Cavil was created it's highly unlikely Cavil was able to equip them with telecephalic inhibitors. These Centurions were probably treated as equals by the humanoid Cylons and were allowed to live with them on the Colony until they broke down.
***That may not be so, as the humanoid Cylons supposedly scrapped most of the old Centurions. The ones at the Colony may have been reprogrammed or been created after the First Cylon War with no free will.
***It is also conceivable-- given that the First War Centurions were researching organic bodies when the Final Five contacted them-- that the creation of the Significant Seven (Eight including Daniel) involved some sort of transfer of programming from the Model 0005s to serve as the basic 'operating system' or consciousness for the newly developed organic bodies, upon which distinct personalities may have later been imprinted. This would place Cavil's longing for a more mechanical nature in the context of a form of nostalgia, and would explain the decommissioning of millions of 0005s. It would also clarify the facility with which humanoid Cylons communicate with computers, and the sleeper agents' ability to compartmentalize, if their consciousness originated as literal programming. This would also have been more efficient than having to 'code' the organic Cylons' mentalities from scratch.
* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Is the Adama family the origin of the name Adam for the mythical first man?
** Glen Larson, the creator of the original 1978 cult classic of campy space operaness (not to mention Knight Rider) named Adama after the Adam of Biblical myth. Canon implications of this, of course, are far more interesting.
* Does the cult continue under Paulla's leadership?
* Spreading humanity across all continents 150,000 years ago seemingly violates the Out of Africa theory of migration. What implications does this have for the Recent African origin hypothesis? Further, what of the Toba eruption theory bottlenecking the species roughly 70,000 years ago?
** It is possible that the Colonial settlements outside of Africa were unsuccessful, and left no lasting evidence of their existence. Under this theory, all of modern humanity can still trace their origins to Africa and Hera's descendents.
* If Hera is Mitochondrial Eve, was Mitochondrial Adam for each Haplogroup also part Cylon, or were some of them fully human?
** The male equivalent of the mitochondrial Eve is the Y-chromosomal Adam. The Y Adam existed much more recently than Mitochondrial Eve (60,000 years ago, instead of 140,000 years ago), and the Y Haplogroups are of even more recent origin. By this time, the human and Cylon DNA would have been about as mixed up as it was going to get, making Y Adam as much of a human-Cylon mix as modern humans.
* Would members of extremists groups such as the [[Sons of Ares]] go with the other human/cylon groups on Earth, or did they decide to settle in an isolated geographic area with no Cylons? Were groups such as the [[Sons of Ares]] and the [[Cult of Baltar]] disbanded upon the settlement of Earth?

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Virtual Baltar says the last line of the series as he walks down a street of modern day New York City with Virtual Six:''
:'''Virtual Baltar''': "Silly Me.....silly, silly me".

*''The Galactica is about to jump to The Colony and into harms way:''
:'''Admiral Adama''': Just so there'll be no misunderstandings later... ''Galactica'' has seen a lot of history, gone through a lot of battles. This ''will'' be her last. She will not fail us if we do not fail her. If we succeed in our mission, ''Galactica'' will bring us home. If we don't... it doesn’t matter anyway.

*''The Final Five are discussing things among themselves about to download the specifications of Resurrection technology. Cavil is impatient shouting from below up to the Five:''
:'''Cavil''':" HEY! I DON'T MEAN TO RUSH YOU BUT YOU ARE KEEPING TWO CIVILIZATIONS WAITING!

*''Cavil's last word before he commits suicide.''
:'''Cavil''': Frak!

*''Nuclear missiles has knocked the Colony falling into the Singularity and is dragging Galactica with it and Starbuck is frantically attempting to figure out the jump coordinates.''
:'''Starbuck''': There must be some kind of way out of here.

*''Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar speculating if the cycle will continue.''
:'''Virtual Baltar''': All of this has happened before...
:'''Virtual Six''': But the question remains: does all of this have to happen again?

*''Sam Anders, essentially Galactica's Hybrid, says his last words to Kara Thrace after she leaves his side.''
:'''Samuel Anders''': See you on the other side

*''Baltar to Caprica Six on New Earth in unspoken reference about his father''
:'''Baltar''': "You know, I know about farming." (sobs)

*''Laura Roslin is speaking to Dr. Cottle about the state of her health which both know it is grave with only a few days to live. Also, she is about to essentially go into battle to retrieve Hera and the Doctor appears to be on the verge of choking up:''
:'''Laura Roslin''': Don't spoil your image, just light a cigarette and go and grumble."

*''Former Admiral of the Fleet William Adama is showing Laura their new home on New Earth in a Raptor. She sees a heard of grezlles stampeding at the sight of the Raptor over the lush and rich landscape and says her last words:''
:'''Roslin''': So much life...

*''William Adama is sitting on a high ridge overlooking what would later be called the African Savannah in spectacular view. Laura Roslin's grave is behind him close by and he talks to her spirit. It is his last statement in the series:''
:'''William Adama''': I laid out the cabin. It's gonna have an easternly view. You should see the light we get here. When the sun comes from behind the mountains, it's almost heavenly. Reminds me of you."

*''Boomer has just given over Hera to Athena, saving her life from Cavil and Simon dissection-and both redeeming herself and condemning herself to death''
:'''Boomer''' (to Athena): Tell the old man, I owed him one.
:'''Athena''' (angrily) Doesn't change anything you did though!
:'''Boomer''' (shakes her head slightly): No. We all make our choices. Today I made a choice. I think its my last one.
:'''Starbuck''': All right this is really touching. Now can we get the frak out of here!?!
:'''Boomer''' (to Starbuck): You should know that your Raptor been destroyed. You can't go back that way.
:(Athena passes Hera to Helo)
:'''Athena''': Yeah well, that is not the plan.
:'''Starbuck''' (sardonically): Can we ''not'' tell her the plan?
:'''Athena''': Right.
:''(Athena and Boomer look each other in the eye for a moment. She raises her weapon. Boomer makes no move to escape, but stands strait head up, accepting if not welcoming her fate. Athena fires. Boomer is dead before she hits the deck.)''

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]]
* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Number Four]]
* [[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Sherman Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Kerry Norton]] as [[Layne Ishay]]
* [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Number One]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brenden "Hotdog" Costanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant/Admiral [[Louis Hoshi]]
* [[Colin Lawrence]] as Ensign [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Colin Corrigan]] as Marine [[Allan Nowart]]
* [[Leela Savasta]] as [[Tracey Anne]]
* [[Darcy Laurie]] as [[Dealino]]
* [[Iliana Gomez-Martinez]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Tobias Mehler]] as [[Zak Adama]]
* [[Simone Bailly]] as [[Shona]]
* [[Kevin McNulty]] as [[Frank Porthos]]
* [[Richard Jollymore]] as Marine #1
* [[Anthony St. John]] as Marine #2
* [[Dan Payne]] as [[Sean Allison]]
* [[Holly Eglinton]] as Stripper
* [[Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (uncredited)
* [[Ronald D. Moore]] as Man at news stand (uncredited)

== References ==

<div style="font-size: 85%;"><references /></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

2009-01-20T00:02:56Z

Dharadvani: /* Writer's Strike Ending */ new section

{{newsection link}}

== Half-Season ==

Are we sure that Sometimes a Great Notion will be aired before the midseason break? I've seen the first half-season referred to as consisting of ten episodes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
: It's not on the SFC schedule, so I've removed it. Someone must've been overzealous in their addition of the airdates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Writers ==

In the podcast for Revelations, RDM states that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson will be writing this episode. I though I should bring it up here rather than add it to the article as I'm a relatively new member here, and am still unfamiliar with the editing process.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 23:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: That's all right, Pentagonal. Feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] take it upon yourself to add it, as long as it's [[BW:CJ|cited]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, but it wasn't so much that I was apprehensive to edit the page, but more that i'm not quite sure how. I really haven't taken the time to learn how to use the editing software, (which is something I'm planning on doing shortly) so i thought it best to bring it up here and have someone willing and able add it.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I added it. You can see the difference [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Sometimes_a_Great_Notion&diff=165728&oldid=164802 here]. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Many thanks.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Title ==

''The title of the episode comes from the blues song "Goodnight, Irene," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown."'' Is this a fact? There's no citation. It's also the title of a song by John Mellencamp. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 17:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:And, though I don't know if it has to do with anything, the first line of the Mellencamp song, "Never give an inch," is a reference to ''Sometimes a Great Notion'', a novel by Ken Kesey. [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::The episode title is a reference to Ken Kesey's novel -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Buried Centurion Head ==

Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Guest stars==

As an avid credit watcher I thought I'd point out that as of the very beginning of season 4 Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, Tahmoh Penikett, Michael Trucco, Alessandro Juliani and Kandyse McClure have all been credited as starring cast members. I've removed them from the guest star section for this episode accordingly.--[[User:Opark 77|Opark 77]] 11:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Just need a second verification and we should edit [[Season 4 (2008)]] as well. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Uh, if you're an avid credit watcher, as you say, then you should know that those name (give or takes a few) have been like that since "33". And it's not just this show that has this sort of thing. Nor, is it a recent trend; I can date the post star/pre-guest star credit thing back to a show from 1989 and few since. That's always been a thorn in trying to figure that out. I will say that if they're stars, then they're names wouldn't come and go based on an episode-by-episode basis like that seeing as how all the ones in the main credits remain regardless (with the exception of Katee's, but that was only to sell the whole "Kara is dead" thing). Until someone can convince me otherwise, I say they're co-stars, who just get upfront credits for some sort of contractual reason. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::As I understand it, '''Mars''', it's really nothing more than a monetary issue. The main cast, whose names are credited every week during the main opening credits sequence, are paid regardless of whether or not they actually shoot any scenes for the episode. A recurring or supporting character would not be credited if they weren't used in a particular episode, so they wouldn't have to be paid, but they would be credited before guest characters. A good example of this outside of BSG would be Teryl Rothery ("Dr. Fraiser") on Stargate SG-1. --[[User:Antarctic Fox|Antarctic Fox]] 17:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Resurrection and the split of the 13th Tribe ==

The dialogue in this episode about the "Final Five"'s previous lives on Earth reminded me of what Virtual said to Baltar n [[Fragged]], about how anyone who was killed on Kobol was dead forever. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway bit of Virtual Six's usual religious zealotry, but after Ellen Tigh's remark in Tigh's vision/flashback about everything being "in place" for their rebirth after the holocaust, I'm no longer so sure.

So, here's a bit of speculation. We know from the advance buzz on ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' that the origins of the Colonies' Cylons had to do with [[Daniel Graystone]]'s efforts to resurrect his daughter in an artificial body -- something that presumably would become a very, very controversial idea if applied on a large scale. Maybe that kind of controversy had something to do with the original departure of the Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol. Perhaps their resurrection system was outlawed on Kobol, leading to their exodus. The existence of the ancient probe in [[Torn]] supports the idea that resurrection technology may well have existed thousands of years ago; that episode really made the virus seem like a biological weapon, and the fact that it infected Cylons through the resurrection process may not have been accidental. Was it created to prevent the Thirteenth Tribe from ''leaving'' Earth to return to Kobol? (In that case, maybe what Ellen meant when she said "Everything is in place" was that some of the Thirteenth Tribe had figured out a way to circumvent the various defenses/mechanisms preventing them from rejoining the Twelve. {{unsigned|Argentla}}
:Hi Argentia. More people will hear about your thoughts in a place better built for it, so why not take your thoughts to [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=2307 the Battlestar Forum episode thread?] (That way, the talk page is left free for questions about the formatting or proper interpretation of what should be in this article itself.) Lots of people are there to talk about it! --22:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Ron Moore's Commentary==
Ron's commentary accompanying SAGN is up on Hulu. He reveals a lot of the driving forces of the story - both in the mythology and in real-life. He also adds some commentary on the episodes framing which adds to the ugliness of the episode. Lastly, it appears Ron is partaking of some interesting "stuff" during the commentary. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Writer's Strike Ending ==

The little factoid that this episode could have served as series finale does not seem to be accurate, based on several other interviews with the cast and crew. Everyone else has referred to the midseason cliffhanger (Revelations) as being the last episode shot before the break, and the one that would make ''considerably'' more sense as a finale than this one. Can we correct what appears to be a numbering miscalculation? One such source: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tvguide/396369_tvgif16.html. --[[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 00:02, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Talk:He That Believeth In Me/Archive 1

2008-07-31T03:55:02Z

Dharadvani:

== Citing issue ==

There is a problem with "Go Between, Inc.". Understandably they don't keep the data forever. Searching for "battlestar" now only yields results for "[[Six of One]]". The data for "[[Razor]]" and this episode is gone. So the cite is kinda pointless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:01, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
: Ran into something like this with [[New Caprican loco weed]] ... the Sci-Fi thread where some of the "Also known as" names came from disappeared. Maybe we should note in the cite "info no longer available"? [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 15:04, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
::Better to remove the cite if we can't back it up (and delete the article, if necessary). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:44, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Deleting the article because the cite isn't available anymore, would be an overreaction though. All other BSG sites still list this (even if we have more stringent citation standards). I'd prefer somehow indicating that the site isn't available anymore. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:25, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
: I agree with Serenity, but of course I'm an inclusionist. The data did exist. Perhaps there is a Google cache (or other website cache) of it still available. I notice the date it was retrieved is part of the cite, I think that is a good thing. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 07:21, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::If it's still in the Google cache, we could copy it to Sources:Go Between or something like that. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:52, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Keeping in mind we're not a news source, perhaps it would be better to make a ''screen capture'' of such information to make a permanent source copy on BS Media that cannot expire. The capture as well as the tenuous article sourcing can be removed later once we get more firm sourcing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:15, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::That would be feasible. Unless someone has a better idea, that might be the best. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:24, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Excellent idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

== Update ==

Mark Verheiden reports on his [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2007/08/bsg-update-next.html blog] that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson are writing this episode. I've updated the article accordingly. Also, he reports that officially the production numbers for Razor are 401 and 402, and Season 4, Episode 1 is going to be 403. --[[User:Freevo|Freevo]] 10:51, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:I don't think writers need to be cited, though we can add a footnote if anyone feels the need. I'll add the production number, though seeing this as episode 1 of Season 4 still makes sense. Production numbers can be very confusing. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:52, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
::Currently, [[400]] and [[4.00]] redirect to [[Razor]], and [[401]] and [[4.01]] redirect to [[He That Believeth In Me]], a system that I think is more logical than the production numbers. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:33, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:::Agreed. We just need to keep production and episode numbers apart. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

== Space Park Damaged etc ==

Er, sorry but wheres the citation to support this spoiler? The only thing i've seen that would represent this, is a fan made trailer circulated around youtube, which featured the Battlestars Titan and Hades...whilst well done, everything barring some leaked footage of starbuck, is done entirely on a home computer by the looks of it...so i say again, where did this spoiler appear from? --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 23:17, 31 January 2008 (CST)
: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkYvXmD94e0&feature=related Here]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:47, 1 February 2008 (CST)
::I dont like the way this season is going...i wasn't particularly enamoured with the whole 'final 5' story either...oh well, i guess they just ran out of steam :( --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 16:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)
:::Any one notice that [[Scylla]] was in the fleet towards the end of the battle.--[[User:CoreyDanian|Corey Danian]] 15 May 2008 11.23 pm (CST)

==SciFi ep?==
I am currently on the West Coast and it's 12:02pm, yet I cannot find anywhere on the SciFi website where the episode is streaming. It says it is there, but I don't see a link. Any ideas?[[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 19:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:It was 12pm EDT and 9am PST :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 19:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

==Callsigns==
Diana Seelix and Sam Anders' callsigns are mentioned as "Longshot" and "Hardball", I just can't figure out which is which. Anyone know what's what? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't recall hearing those callsigns, but Seelix has been confirmed as Hardball since as far back as October. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:: "Longshot" isn't Anders' callsign... He mixed up the callsigns when he was trying to cover [[Tally]]... The video for the entire episode is [[He That Believeth In Me/Watch|here]] if you want to check it out. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Oh. Now I've got that. The first two times I must have thought that "Tally" was jargon. He must have one, of course. Where does "Hotshot" come from? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 03:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Now someone entered that Athena called Anders "C-Buck" on his article. That can only happen during their scene on the hangar deck, but I don't hear anything like that. She says. "Hey rook. Stay cool out there, alright. You'll lock on/in and do what you've been trained to do. Come on." -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, I was listening out for callsigns and the like. I have never heard "C-Buck" once in the episode... The only time that "C-Bucks" ever come up is way back in "Exodus". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 14:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Wait, "tally" *is* pilot jargon. What makes us so sure that it's a callsign? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:I am still listen to the episode sound. I recorded that section so I can play it back over and over and I am trying to take out the ambient noise. I will let you know what I come up with. (This is what having a powerfull computer can do!) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because he clearly corrects himself after saying the first callsign... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::Ok. I have listened to it. After further review I hear "Longshot, '''Tally'''. I got your back". Directly afterwards I can hear crystal clear that Anders says "Selix, you got a raider on your back." So going back to how sub sections communicate, "Conn. Weapons. Estimated time to 1SQ is 15 mintues." (From Crimson Tide) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Here's what I heard of the wireless exchange between Seelix and Anders:
::::Seelix: Longshot, Hardball ... turkey right four low at three ... committing.
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the ... Tally! I've got your back.
:::IMO, the conversation goes
::::Seelix: Longshot (Anders), [this is] Hardball (Seelix) ... turkey (Cylon missile) right four low at three ... committing (engaging).
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the (he is either identifying himself, or winces because he realizes he just called Seelix by his own callsign and/or has trouble assembling proper fighter shorthand) ... Tally (I see your target)! I've got your back.
:::So I'd put my hat into Longshot being Anders's callsign. If there is indeed a third pilot with the callsign "Tally", you'd figure the pilot would have acknowledged over wireless.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 03:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, you've convinced me. Yeah, seems that "Longshot" is his callsign. Although, I would personally like more definitive proof before we proceed on that assumption, which shouldn't be a problem in the future episodes that are coming up. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Besides, what's the point in giving someone a callsign ("Tally") that is identical to the popular jargon word used by pilots every now and then? It could cause some serious misunderstanding in the heat of a battle, which is usually fatal. I tend to agree with Joe's explanation. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::The explanation is Fred's, actually, not mine. Anyway, in regards to the whole "Longshot" thing, we should really play the wait-and-see approach and see if it comes up again in a future episode. Frankly, I don't feel that comfortable in what Anders has to say, particularly since his mind's not in the game, not to mention his lack of experience in general. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Seelix seemed in the game. Spike's quite right, giving the callsign "Tally" to someone could cause a fatal error. Too bad that we don't know if Anders will be back in the cockpit soon. He seems to go onboard that other ship from rumors/spoilers, the Demetrius. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::And "Longshot" just seems to make sense, with him being a professional Pyramid player and all.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I think we should wait until we get some confirmation. However, interpreting "Tally" as callsign always seemed specious to me. It can be interpreted either way, but as said, it's already a term for an enemy sighting and identification, and makes sense to be seen that way in the scene. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Makes me think of a comedic spin-off possibility: Battlestar! "''Roger that, Roger. What's the vector, Victor? Request clearance, Clarence.''" :) -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 16:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Ooh! What luck! Was just rewatching some episodes for fun, because I'm a loser and episode 2x01 Scattered, shows Apollo using "tally" as pilot jargon. It happens when Apollo first sees the Cylon heavy raider.
::::::::::::Flyboy: What is that thing?
::::::::::::Apollo: I don't know, but whatever it is, it's bearing on Galactica. We gotta take it out.
::::::::::::Hotdog: Apollo, Hotdog defensive. Three right, five at two.
::::::::::::Apollo: Tally! Hotdog, Kat, on me.
:::::::::::Now that we know that "tally' is part of the acknowledged jargon of Battlestar, I don't think they would give any pilot that callsign. -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 11:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Good catch Yen! :D -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well, not to detract from his point, but we knew that all along. It's not just used in "Scattered". Its first appearance is probably "The Hand of God" -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::Yep, Hand of God, Scattered, and Maelstrom. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Ah, yes. But the last time I searched for "tally" on the wiki, the page with military jargon didn't come up. So boo on you! :P -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Hmm, it works now though. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Could have to do with our outsourcing searching to Google. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I really feel that Longshot is confirmed as Anders callsign by this scene. It's not vague, knowing how pilots speak. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

==Thrace's claims discussion==

Alpha Centauri's triple star system contains 1 star, Proxima Centauri, which is a 'flare star', capable of changing its luminosity in seconds (more akin to the flashing behaviour described by Starbuck). Another interesting factor is that the name of the constellation, Centaurus, refers to the half-man, half-horse mythological figure, which is also the figure represented by Saggitarus (the statue on the tomb of Athena on which the Arrow of Apollo was placed to reveal the path to Earth).
Although the triple stars of Alpha Centauri cannot be seen from Earth neither it is possible to see the rings of the outer solar system's planets. What seems more likely is that Starbuck saw both the rings and the triple star on her way back to the Ionian Nebula.

-- [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 16:38, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The original page formerly included a reference to the moon being "charcoal grey" from space, insinuating that the photos were inconsistent with observed reality. This is not the case, nor is her dialog incorrect.

This mistaken belief stems largely from ignorance of the true color of objects in our solar system. The moon is not, despite what we see in the sky, grey and white. It is a dull mix of browns, rusts, and yellows. It could easily be described as "yellow" when viewed from space and in partial illumination from the Sun. The moon has an albedo of 0.12 (in other words, it is a relatively ''dark'' body), and only appears in the highly desaturated shades we see it due to the intensity of sunlight reflecting off it. See this real-color image for a visual: [http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/chaissonat4/chapter1/medialib/image/g_earth_moon.jpeg].

Kara's comment was spot on. Also, our star is not really yellow--it is very close to 6500K white, but appears exaggeratedly yellow due to the same Rayleigh scattering that makes the sky blue.-- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 05:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:As you say, the moon is always seen brightly lit by the sun (or not lit at all) and an Astronaut in space would not observe a different colour from what we see on the ground. However, you also in your edit removed the note about the fact that the particular picture used in the show being, quite oddly, a partially eclipsed moon, with the lower half shaded and no sharp terminator. Any reason why you removed that note? It's a rather unusual choice by the graphics team to use a real or simulated partially eclipsed moon, it seems they had some goal in mind with that.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

::An astronaut in space would indeed see a different color from what we see on the ground. See the image linked in my earlier comment. Also poke around the NASA website for astronaut's reports from the moon landings. I believe it was Alan Shepard (maybe David Scott) who called it "mousy brown". As for the "partially eclipsed" moon, take a closer look at the screen cap. It's not being eclipsed, it appears to be an upside-down waning gibbous moon heading into the last quarter. The perspective appears off because the Moon orbits the ecliptic and the curvature of the earth is off-plumb in the picture. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 12:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Gotta say I disagree. I've seen and photographed many regular and eclipsed moons, and in a regular waning gibbous, the terminator is nowhere near that soft. And take a closer look, the curvature is the wrong way for the terminator and the right way for an umbra. I have no idea why they used an eclipsed moon here, but that's what we have. Show me a picture of a non-eclipsed moon, from space, that looks remotely like this.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::The curvature is deceptive, given that the screen cap shows a curved piece of paper with an off-plumb perspective. It tracks quite closely with this: [http://www.billionsandbillions.com/GibbousMoon.html], again, upside-down. In this cycle, from this orbital perspective, the moon is rising from behind the earth. It is not being eclipsed. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 09:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, I'm pretty skilled in astronomy and those two pictures look nothing alike to me. The normal moon picture has a sharp terminator. It's a quarter moon with linear terminator. In a gibbous moon, the terminator would be curved down in Starbuck's picture. Another thing wrong with the picture is the moon is less than 1/3 as bright as the Earth when viewed together, but I will leave that to photoshop. The lunar terminator is always sharp. Starbuck's photo has a gradual fade to orange, which is only seen in a partial lunar eclipse.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 16:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Update: I pasted together 4 moons -- Thrace's picture, your gibbous, a partial lunar and a total lunar. Her moon looks nothing like the gibbous, and most like the total but the brightness would be way off. The curvature of the terminator is the big clue. I have no idea why the graphics artists sourced a moon in eclipse for this photo, but they seem to have. [http://www.templetons.com/etc/galacticamoons.jpg Four Moons]--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 18:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::I disagree and think you are massively overanalyzing the image from the art department. First, you're locked into ground-based thinking. Desaturate a photo of the moon from space and the terminator softens. A true lunar eclipse has a distinct double-gradient, which the image lacks. Further, even if we accept the possibility that the art department intended the moon to be in eclipse instead of simply artistic license for a photograph with mere seconds of screen time, such eclipses occur 5 to 7 times per year. Without knowing the year, the significance of the moon's position/condition is low. The purpose of the photo is to identify with the audience--which it does, by approximating the configuration of the mare. It is interesting speculation, but is not notable for the main page.--[[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 11:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I would appreciate it if, before removing text that is under discussion, you waited to have the discussion first and see if there is consensus. Removal of other people's text is different from adding your own. While we obviously disagree on what a terminator looks like, I am not interpreting what's the use of an eclipsed image means, simply documenting it. If I'm wrong, there is no great harm. If it turns out to be significant you're removing material because your interpretation is different. We haven't seen any other opinions yet, so please be courteous in a two-person disagreement. If you have a photo of a terminator from space that looks anything like Starbuck's photo, you may offer it, but please restore my text until you do and others agree with you. Also note that no matter how much the terminator may "soften" from a particular view it never turns and becomes convex on a 3/4 moon!--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 07:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::The issue isn't the discussion. It's the fact that there's no reason to believe it to be significant, whatever the phase or transit status of the Moon. It is no more worth mentioning than the fact that the sky was grey when they landed on Earth. Leaving it in amidst the text doesn't make any sense. It's a throwaway photo used by Starbuck to show that she's been to Earth. The audience is meant to see the surface features of the moon and recognize it as our Moon. If it turns out to be significant, it can be added. There is no corroborating evidence of any kind, no mention in dialogue, and not even a rational theory that hinges on the significance of the shadow on the Moon. When doing any writing of this sort, what ''not'' to include is as important as what gets included. It's cruft. If there is any evidence to suggest it means something, please, share it. Also note that I don't agree with your assessment of a convex terminator. There's no consensus that an eclipse is depicted or intended. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 04:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I fully agree. But what you'll find a lot on the forums these days, and to a lesser extends on BS Wiki, is that people over-analyze everything these days and read supposedly hidden clues into just about ''anything''; be it props or the smallest lines of dialogue. Sure, there is some foreshadowing and sometimes props do have significance ("Maelstrom" has several cases of that). But sometimes a thing is just a thing. And with regards to Starbuck's voyage, there was a lot of misdirection and complete misinterpretation. Like the whole gas-giant/Jupiter thing. Though that at least was fully intented by the writers. It's a matter of taste. For me (and probably you), speculation has a place here unless it's completely unfounded, while others want to have everything added. I think this is a case where adding it later, if it does gain significance, is better. As it's now, it just suggests something that isn't necessarily there. Especially since it's presented more as scientific fact than supposition. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:09, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I am not proposing speculation. It was one line that I believe was documenting something, not speculating on why or what it means. It may simply be a graphic artist's mistake or special touch, and we document those. I have not suggested any meaning for it. We're here to document. The mysteries of Earth and the final Cylon are the two central mysteries of the show; I think it highly appropriate to document all we notice relating to these. If you really think it's a matter of great dispute what the moon looks like, it could be written as "The shadow pattern on the moon is unusual, to some it is more consistent with a partially eclipsed moon than a normal 3/4 moon." If it means nothing it means nothing but an unsual artistic choice. If it means something (and I really have no idea what) it would be an error not to document it. But I'm done. This is not that important, other than to my judgement that the right thing for a wiki like this is to document in detail things that relate to the show's central mysteries. One can do that without fanwanking about what they mean.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 06:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::To document ephemera without meaning is to miss the point of documenting in the first place. Reporting it ''at all'' is an assertion of significance. The ambiguous visual details of a few frames, without evidence or a theory of relevance, are not significant and just waste space. Including a throwaway detail because some''one'' feels that it might be significant to ''something'' would seriously degrade the quality of a documentary work. Without any theory or evidence, it's interesting speculation, and nothing more. If it becomes meaningful, it can be documented. I am unsure what the issue was. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 03:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

== [[w:Iron Man (film)|Iron Man]] special preview? ==

Worth noting or no? Since it's not really relevant to the episode itself but the airing thereof..--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 03:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
: Not really worth noting. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

== Galactica Damage ==

Could anyone sort out some screenshots of the the damage done to Galactica please? :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 08:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk:He That Believeth In Me/Archive 1

2008-07-29T04:11:22Z

Dharadvani:

== Citing issue ==

There is a problem with "Go Between, Inc.". Understandably they don't keep the data forever. Searching for "battlestar" now only yields results for "[[Six of One]]". The data for "[[Razor]]" and this episode is gone. So the cite is kinda pointless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:01, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
: Ran into something like this with [[New Caprican loco weed]] ... the Sci-Fi thread where some of the "Also known as" names came from disappeared. Maybe we should note in the cite "info no longer available"? [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 15:04, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
::Better to remove the cite if we can't back it up (and delete the article, if necessary). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:44, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Deleting the article because the cite isn't available anymore, would be an overreaction though. All other BSG sites still list this (even if we have more stringent citation standards). I'd prefer somehow indicating that the site isn't available anymore. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:25, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
: I agree with Serenity, but of course I'm an inclusionist. The data did exist. Perhaps there is a Google cache (or other website cache) of it still available. I notice the date it was retrieved is part of the cite, I think that is a good thing. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 07:21, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::If it's still in the Google cache, we could copy it to Sources:Go Between or something like that. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:52, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Keeping in mind we're not a news source, perhaps it would be better to make a ''screen capture'' of such information to make a permanent source copy on BS Media that cannot expire. The capture as well as the tenuous article sourcing can be removed later once we get more firm sourcing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:15, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::That would be feasible. Unless someone has a better idea, that might be the best. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:24, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Excellent idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

== Update ==

Mark Verheiden reports on his [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2007/08/bsg-update-next.html blog] that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson are writing this episode. I've updated the article accordingly. Also, he reports that officially the production numbers for Razor are 401 and 402, and Season 4, Episode 1 is going to be 403. --[[User:Freevo|Freevo]] 10:51, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:I don't think writers need to be cited, though we can add a footnote if anyone feels the need. I'll add the production number, though seeing this as episode 1 of Season 4 still makes sense. Production numbers can be very confusing. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:52, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
::Currently, [[400]] and [[4.00]] redirect to [[Razor]], and [[401]] and [[4.01]] redirect to [[He That Believeth In Me]], a system that I think is more logical than the production numbers. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:33, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:::Agreed. We just need to keep production and episode numbers apart. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

== Space Park Damaged etc ==

Er, sorry but wheres the citation to support this spoiler? The only thing i've seen that would represent this, is a fan made trailer circulated around youtube, which featured the Battlestars Titan and Hades...whilst well done, everything barring some leaked footage of starbuck, is done entirely on a home computer by the looks of it...so i say again, where did this spoiler appear from? --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 23:17, 31 January 2008 (CST)
: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkYvXmD94e0&feature=related Here]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:47, 1 February 2008 (CST)
::I dont like the way this season is going...i wasn't particularly enamoured with the whole 'final 5' story either...oh well, i guess they just ran out of steam :( --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 16:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)
:::Any one notice that [[Scylla]] was in the fleet towards the end of the battle.--[[User:CoreyDanian|Corey Danian]] 15 May 2008 11.23 pm (CST)

==SciFi ep?==
I am currently on the West Coast and it's 12:02pm, yet I cannot find anywhere on the SciFi website where the episode is streaming. It says it is there, but I don't see a link. Any ideas?[[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 19:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:It was 12pm EDT and 9am PST :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 19:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

==Callsigns==
Diana Seelix and Sam Anders' callsigns are mentioned as "Longshot" and "Hardball", I just can't figure out which is which. Anyone know what's what? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't recall hearing those callsigns, but Seelix has been confirmed as Hardball since as far back as October. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:: "Longshot" isn't Anders' callsign... He mixed up the callsigns when he was trying to cover [[Tally]]... The video for the entire episode is [[He That Believeth In Me/Watch|here]] if you want to check it out. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Oh. Now I've got that. The first two times I must have thought that "Tally" was jargon. He must have one, of course. Where does "Hotshot" come from? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 03:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Now someone entered that Athena called Anders "C-Buck" on his article. That can only happen during their scene on the hangar deck, but I don't hear anything like that. She says. "Hey rook. Stay cool out there, alright. You'll lock on/in and do what you've been trained to do. Come on." -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, I was listening out for callsigns and the like. I have never heard "C-Buck" once in the episode... The only time that "C-Bucks" ever come up is way back in "Exodus". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 14:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Wait, "tally" *is* pilot jargon. What makes us so sure that it's a callsign? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:I am still listen to the episode sound. I recorded that section so I can play it back over and over and I am trying to take out the ambient noise. I will let you know what I come up with. (This is what having a powerfull computer can do!) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because he clearly corrects himself after saying the first callsign... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::Ok. I have listened to it. After further review I hear "Longshot, '''Tally'''. I got your back". Directly afterwards I can hear crystal clear that Anders says "Selix, you got a raider on your back." So going back to how sub sections communicate, "Conn. Weapons. Estimated time to 1SQ is 15 mintues." (From Crimson Tide) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Here's what I heard of the wireless exchange between Seelix and Anders:
::::Seelix: Longshot, Hardball ... turkey right four low at three ... committing.
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the ... Tally! I've got your back.
:::IMO, the conversation goes
::::Seelix: Longshot (Anders), [this is] Hardball (Seelix) ... turkey (Cylon missile) right four low at three ... committing (engaging).
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the (he is either identifying himself, or winces because he realizes he just called Seelix by his own callsign and/or has trouble assembling proper fighter shorthand) ... Tally (I see your target)! I've got your back.
:::So I'd put my hat into Longshot being Anders's callsign. If there is indeed a third pilot with the callsign "Tally", you'd figure the pilot would have acknowledged over wireless.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 03:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, you've convinced me. Yeah, seems that "Longshot" is his callsign. Although, I would personally like more definitive proof before we proceed on that assumption, which shouldn't be a problem in the future episodes that are coming up. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Besides, what's the point in giving someone a callsign ("Tally") that is identical to the popular jargon word used by pilots every now and then? It could cause some serious misunderstanding in the heat of a battle, which is usually fatal. I tend to agree with Joe's explanation. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::The explanation is Fred's, actually, not mine. Anyway, in regards to the whole "Longshot" thing, we should really play the wait-and-see approach and see if it comes up again in a future episode. Frankly, I don't feel that comfortable in what Anders has to say, particularly since his mind's not in the game, not to mention his lack of experience in general. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Seelix seemed in the game. Spike's quite right, giving the callsign "Tally" to someone could cause a fatal error. Too bad that we don't know if Anders will be back in the cockpit soon. He seems to go onboard that other ship from rumors/spoilers, the Demetrius. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::And "Longshot" just seems to make sense, with him being a professional Pyramid player and all.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I think we should wait until we get some confirmation. However, interpreting "Tally" as callsign always seemed specious to me. It can be interpreted either way, but as said, it's already a term for an enemy sighting and identification, and makes sense to be seen that way in the scene. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Makes me think of a comedic spin-off possibility: Battlestar! "''Roger that, Roger. What's the vector, Victor? Request clearance, Clarence.''" :) -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 16:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Ooh! What luck! Was just rewatching some episodes for fun, because I'm a loser and episode 2x01 Scattered, shows Apollo using "tally" as pilot jargon. It happens when Apollo first sees the Cylon heavy raider.
::::::::::::Flyboy: What is that thing?
::::::::::::Apollo: I don't know, but whatever it is, it's bearing on Galactica. We gotta take it out.
::::::::::::Hotdog: Apollo, Hotdog defensive. Three right, five at two.
::::::::::::Apollo: Tally! Hotdog, Kat, on me.
:::::::::::Now that we know that "tally' is part of the acknowledged jargon of Battlestar, I don't think they would give any pilot that callsign. -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 11:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Good catch Yen! :D -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well, not to detract from his point, but we knew that all along. It's not just used in "Scattered". Its first appearance is probably "The Hand of God" -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::Yep, Hand of God, Scattered, and Maelstrom. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Ah, yes. But the last time I searched for "tally" on the wiki, the page with military jargon didn't come up. So boo on you! :P -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Hmm, it works now though. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Could have to do with our outsourcing searching to Google. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I really feel that Longshot is confirmed as Anders callsign by this scene. It's not vague, knowing how pilots speak. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

==Thrace's claims discussion==

Alpha Centauri's triple star system contains 1 star, Proxima Centauri, which is a 'flare star', capable of changing its luminosity in seconds (more akin to the flashing behaviour described by Starbuck). Another interesting factor is that the name of the constellation, Centaurus, refers to the half-man, half-horse mythological figure, which is also the figure represented by Saggitarus (the statue on the tomb of Athena on which the Arrow of Apollo was placed to reveal the path to Earth).
Although the triple stars of Alpha Centauri cannot be seen from Earth neither it is possible to see the rings of the outer solar system's planets. What seems more likely is that Starbuck saw both the rings and the triple star on her way back to the Ionian Nebula.

-- [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 16:38, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The original page formerly included a reference to the moon being "charcoal grey" from space, insinuating that the photos were inconsistent with observed reality. This is not the case, nor is her dialog incorrect.

This mistaken belief stems largely from ignorance of the true color of objects in our solar system. The moon is not, despite what we see in the sky, grey and white. It is a dull mix of browns, rusts, and yellows. It could easily be described as "yellow" when viewed from space and in partial illumination from the Sun. The moon has an albedo of 0.12 (in other words, it is a relatively ''dark'' body), and only appears in the highly desaturated shades we see it due to the intensity of sunlight reflecting off it. See this real-color image for a visual: [http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/chaissonat4/chapter1/medialib/image/g_earth_moon.jpeg].

Kara's comment was spot on. Also, our star is not really yellow--it is very close to 6500K white, but appears exaggeratedly yellow due to the same Rayleigh scattering that makes the sky blue.-- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 05:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:As you say, the moon is always seen brightly lit by the sun (or not lit at all) and an Astronaut in space would not observe a different colour from what we see on the ground. However, you also in your edit removed the note about the fact that the particular picture used in the show being, quite oddly, a partially eclipsed moon, with the lower half shaded and no sharp terminator. Any reason why you removed that note? It's a rather unusual choice by the graphics team to use a real or simulated partially eclipsed moon, it seems they had some goal in mind with that.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

::An astronaut in space would indeed see a different color from what we see on the ground. See the image linked in my earlier comment. Also poke around the NASA website for astronaut's reports from the moon landings. I believe it was Alan Shepard (maybe David Scott) who called it "mousy brown". As for the "partially eclipsed" moon, take a closer look at the screen cap. It's not being eclipsed, it appears to be an upside-down waning gibbous moon heading into the last quarter. The perspective appears off because the Moon orbits the ecliptic and the curvature of the earth is off-plumb in the picture. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 12:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Gotta say I disagree. I've seen and photographed many regular and eclipsed moons, and in a regular waning gibbous, the terminator is nowhere near that soft. And take a closer look, the curvature is the wrong way for the terminator and the right way for an umbra. I have no idea why they used an eclipsed moon here, but that's what we have. Show me a picture of a non-eclipsed moon, from space, that looks remotely like this.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::The curvature is deceptive, given that the screen cap shows a curved piece of paper with an off-plumb perspective. It tracks quite closely with this: [http://www.billionsandbillions.com/GibbousMoon.html], again, upside-down. In this cycle, from this orbital perspective, the moon is rising from behind the earth. It is not being eclipsed. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 09:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, I'm pretty skilled in astronomy and those two pictures look nothing alike to me. The normal moon picture has a sharp terminator. It's a quarter moon with linear terminator. In a gibbous moon, the terminator would be curved down in Starbuck's picture. Another thing wrong with the picture is the moon is less than 1/3 as bright as the Earth when viewed together, but I will leave that to photoshop. The lunar terminator is always sharp. Starbuck's photo has a gradual fade to orange, which is only seen in a partial lunar eclipse.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 16:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Update: I pasted together 4 moons -- Thrace's picture, your gibbous, a partial lunar and a total lunar. Her moon looks nothing like the gibbous, and most like the total but the brightness would be way off. The curvature of the terminator is the big clue. I have no idea why the graphics artists sourced a moon in eclipse for this photo, but they seem to have. [http://www.templetons.com/etc/galacticamoons.jpg Four Moons]--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 18:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::I disagree and think you are massively overanalyzing the image from the art department. First, you're locked into ground-based thinking. Desaturate a photo of the moon from space and the terminator softens. A true lunar eclipse has a distinct double-gradient, which the image lacks. Further, even if we accept the possibility that the art department intended the moon to be in eclipse instead of simply artistic license for a photograph with mere seconds of screen time, such eclipses occur 5 to 7 times per year. Without knowing the year, the significance of the moon's position/condition is low. The purpose of the photo is to identify with the audience--which it does, by approximating the configuration of the mare. It is interesting speculation, but is not notable for the main page.
--[[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 11:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I would appreciate it if, before removing text that is under discussion, you waited to have the discussion first and see if there is consensus. Removal of other people's text is different from adding your own. While we obviously disagree on what a terminator looks like, I am not interpreting what's the use of an eclipsed image means, simply documenting it. If I'm wrong, there is no great harm. If it turns out to be significant you're removing material because your interpretation is different. We haven't seen any other opinions yet, so please be courteous in a two-person disagreement. If you have a photo of a terminator from space that looks anything like Starbuck's photo, you may offer it, but please restore my text until you do and others agree with you. Also note that no matter how much the terminator may "soften" from a particular view it never turns and becomes convex on a 3/4 moon!--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 07:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::The issue isn't the discussion. It's the fact that there's no reason to believe it to be significant, whatever the phase or transit status of the Moon. It is no more worth mentioning than the fact that the sky was grey when they landed on Earth. Leaving it in amidst the text doesn't make any sense. It's a throwaway photo used by Starbuck to show that she's been to Earth. The audience is meant to see the surface features of the moon and recognize it as our Moon. If it turns out to be significant, it can be added. There is no corroborating evidence of any kind, no mention in dialogue, and not even a rational theory that hinges on the significance of the shadow on the Moon. When doing any writing of this sort, what ''not'' to include is as important as what gets included. It's cruft. If there is any evidence to suggest it means something, please, share it. Also note that I don't agree with your assessment of a convex terminator. There's no consensus that an eclipse is depicted or intended. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 04:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== [[w:Iron Man (film)|Iron Man]] special preview? ==

Worth noting or no? Since it's not really relevant to the episode itself but the airing thereof..--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 03:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
: Not really worth noting. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

== Galactica Damage ==

Could anyone sort out some screenshots of the the damage done to Galactica please? :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 08:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk:He That Believeth In Me/Archive 1

2008-07-29T04:06:11Z

Dharadvani:

== Citing issue ==

There is a problem with "Go Between, Inc.". Understandably they don't keep the data forever. Searching for "battlestar" now only yields results for "[[Six of One]]". The data for "[[Razor]]" and this episode is gone. So the cite is kinda pointless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:01, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
: Ran into something like this with [[New Caprican loco weed]] ... the Sci-Fi thread where some of the "Also known as" names came from disappeared. Maybe we should note in the cite "info no longer available"? [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 15:04, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
::Better to remove the cite if we can't back it up (and delete the article, if necessary). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:44, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Deleting the article because the cite isn't available anymore, would be an overreaction though. All other BSG sites still list this (even if we have more stringent citation standards). I'd prefer somehow indicating that the site isn't available anymore. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:25, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
: I agree with Serenity, but of course I'm an inclusionist. The data did exist. Perhaps there is a Google cache (or other website cache) of it still available. I notice the date it was retrieved is part of the cite, I think that is a good thing. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 07:21, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::If it's still in the Google cache, we could copy it to Sources:Go Between or something like that. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:52, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Keeping in mind we're not a news source, perhaps it would be better to make a ''screen capture'' of such information to make a permanent source copy on BS Media that cannot expire. The capture as well as the tenuous article sourcing can be removed later once we get more firm sourcing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:15, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::That would be feasible. Unless someone has a better idea, that might be the best. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:24, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Excellent idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

== Update ==

Mark Verheiden reports on his [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2007/08/bsg-update-next.html blog] that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson are writing this episode. I've updated the article accordingly. Also, he reports that officially the production numbers for Razor are 401 and 402, and Season 4, Episode 1 is going to be 403. --[[User:Freevo|Freevo]] 10:51, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:I don't think writers need to be cited, though we can add a footnote if anyone feels the need. I'll add the production number, though seeing this as episode 1 of Season 4 still makes sense. Production numbers can be very confusing. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:52, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
::Currently, [[400]] and [[4.00]] redirect to [[Razor]], and [[401]] and [[4.01]] redirect to [[He That Believeth In Me]], a system that I think is more logical than the production numbers. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:33, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:::Agreed. We just need to keep production and episode numbers apart. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

== Space Park Damaged etc ==

Er, sorry but wheres the citation to support this spoiler? The only thing i've seen that would represent this, is a fan made trailer circulated around youtube, which featured the Battlestars Titan and Hades...whilst well done, everything barring some leaked footage of starbuck, is done entirely on a home computer by the looks of it...so i say again, where did this spoiler appear from? --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 23:17, 31 January 2008 (CST)
: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkYvXmD94e0&feature=related Here]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:47, 1 February 2008 (CST)
::I dont like the way this season is going...i wasn't particularly enamoured with the whole 'final 5' story either...oh well, i guess they just ran out of steam :( --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 16:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)
:::Any one notice that [[Scylla]] was in the fleet towards the end of the battle.--[[User:CoreyDanian|Corey Danian]] 15 May 2008 11.23 pm (CST)

==SciFi ep?==
I am currently on the West Coast and it's 12:02pm, yet I cannot find anywhere on the SciFi website where the episode is streaming. It says it is there, but I don't see a link. Any ideas?[[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 19:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:It was 12pm EDT and 9am PST :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 19:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

==Callsigns==
Diana Seelix and Sam Anders' callsigns are mentioned as "Longshot" and "Hardball", I just can't figure out which is which. Anyone know what's what? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't recall hearing those callsigns, but Seelix has been confirmed as Hardball since as far back as October. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:: "Longshot" isn't Anders' callsign... He mixed up the callsigns when he was trying to cover [[Tally]]... The video for the entire episode is [[He That Believeth In Me/Watch|here]] if you want to check it out. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Oh. Now I've got that. The first two times I must have thought that "Tally" was jargon. He must have one, of course. Where does "Hotshot" come from? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 03:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Now someone entered that Athena called Anders "C-Buck" on his article. That can only happen during their scene on the hangar deck, but I don't hear anything like that. She says. "Hey rook. Stay cool out there, alright. You'll lock on/in and do what you've been trained to do. Come on." -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, I was listening out for callsigns and the like. I have never heard "C-Buck" once in the episode... The only time that "C-Bucks" ever come up is way back in "Exodus". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 14:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Wait, "tally" *is* pilot jargon. What makes us so sure that it's a callsign? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:I am still listen to the episode sound. I recorded that section so I can play it back over and over and I am trying to take out the ambient noise. I will let you know what I come up with. (This is what having a powerfull computer can do!) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because he clearly corrects himself after saying the first callsign... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::Ok. I have listened to it. After further review I hear "Longshot, '''Tally'''. I got your back". Directly afterwards I can hear crystal clear that Anders says "Selix, you got a raider on your back." So going back to how sub sections communicate, "Conn. Weapons. Estimated time to 1SQ is 15 mintues." (From Crimson Tide) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Here's what I heard of the wireless exchange between Seelix and Anders:
::::Seelix: Longshot, Hardball ... turkey right four low at three ... committing.
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the ... Tally! I've got your back.
:::IMO, the conversation goes
::::Seelix: Longshot (Anders), [this is] Hardball (Seelix) ... turkey (Cylon missile) right four low at three ... committing (engaging).
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the (he is either identifying himself, or winces because he realizes he just called Seelix by his own callsign and/or has trouble assembling proper fighter shorthand) ... Tally (I see your target)! I've got your back.
:::So I'd put my hat into Longshot being Anders's callsign. If there is indeed a third pilot with the callsign "Tally", you'd figure the pilot would have acknowledged over wireless.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 03:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, you've convinced me. Yeah, seems that "Longshot" is his callsign. Although, I would personally like more definitive proof before we proceed on that assumption, which shouldn't be a problem in the future episodes that are coming up. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Besides, what's the point in giving someone a callsign ("Tally") that is identical to the popular jargon word used by pilots every now and then? It could cause some serious misunderstanding in the heat of a battle, which is usually fatal. I tend to agree with Joe's explanation. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::The explanation is Fred's, actually, not mine. Anyway, in regards to the whole "Longshot" thing, we should really play the wait-and-see approach and see if it comes up again in a future episode. Frankly, I don't feel that comfortable in what Anders has to say, particularly since his mind's not in the game, not to mention his lack of experience in general. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Seelix seemed in the game. Spike's quite right, giving the callsign "Tally" to someone could cause a fatal error. Too bad that we don't know if Anders will be back in the cockpit soon. He seems to go onboard that other ship from rumors/spoilers, the Demetrius. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::And "Longshot" just seems to make sense, with him being a professional Pyramid player and all.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I think we should wait until we get some confirmation. However, interpreting "Tally" as callsign always seemed specious to me. It can be interpreted either way, but as said, it's already a term for an enemy sighting and identification, and makes sense to be seen that way in the scene. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Makes me think of a comedic spin-off possibility: Battlestar! "''Roger that, Roger. What's the vector, Victor? Request clearance, Clarence.''" :) -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 16:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Ooh! What luck! Was just rewatching some episodes for fun, because I'm a loser and episode 2x01 Scattered, shows Apollo using "tally" as pilot jargon. It happens when Apollo first sees the Cylon heavy raider.
::::::::::::Flyboy: What is that thing?
::::::::::::Apollo: I don't know, but whatever it is, it's bearing on Galactica. We gotta take it out.
::::::::::::Hotdog: Apollo, Hotdog defensive. Three right, five at two.
::::::::::::Apollo: Tally! Hotdog, Kat, on me.
:::::::::::Now that we know that "tally' is part of the acknowledged jargon of Battlestar, I don't think they would give any pilot that callsign. -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 11:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Good catch Yen! :D -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well, not to detract from his point, but we knew that all along. It's not just used in "Scattered". Its first appearance is probably "The Hand of God" -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::Yep, Hand of God, Scattered, and Maelstrom. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Ah, yes. But the last time I searched for "tally" on the wiki, the page with military jargon didn't come up. So boo on you! :P -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Hmm, it works now though. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Could have to do with our outsourcing searching to Google. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I really feel that Longshot is confirmed as Anders callsign by this scene. It's not vague, knowing how pilots speak. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

==Thrace's claims discussion==

Alpha Centauri's triple star system contains 1 star, Proxima Centauri, which is a 'flare star', capable of changing its luminosity in seconds (more akin to the flashing behaviour described by Starbuck). Another interesting factor is that the name of the constellation, Centaurus, refers to the half-man, half-horse mythological figure, which is also the figure represented by Saggitarus (the statue on the tomb of Athena on which the Arrow of Apollo was placed to reveal the path to Earth).
Although the triple stars of Alpha Centauri cannot be seen from Earth neither it is possible to see the rings of the outer solar system's planets. What seems more likely is that Starbuck saw both the rings and the triple star on her way back to the Ionian Nebula.

-- [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 16:38, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The original page formerly included a reference to the moon being "charcoal grey" from space, insinuating that the photos were inconsistent with observed reality. This is not the case, nor is her dialog incorrect.

This mistaken belief stems largely from ignorance of the true color of objects in our solar system. The moon is not, despite what we see in the sky, grey and white. It is a dull mix of browns, rusts, and yellows. It could easily be described as "yellow" when viewed from space and in partial illumination from the Sun. The moon has an albedo of 0.12 (in other words, it is a relatively ''dark'' body), and only appears in the highly desaturated shades we see it due to the intensity of sunlight reflecting off it. See this real-color image for a visual: [http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/chaissonat4/chapter1/medialib/image/g_earth_moon.jpeg].

Kara's comment was spot on. Also, our star is not really yellow--it is very close to 6500K white, but appears exaggeratedly yellow due to the same Rayleigh scattering that makes the sky blue.-- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 05:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:As you say, the moon is always seen brightly lit by the sun (or not lit at all) and an Astronaut in space would not observe a different colour from what we see on the ground. However, you also in your edit removed the note about the fact that the particular picture used in the show being, quite oddly, a partially eclipsed moon, with the lower half shaded and no sharp terminator. Any reason why you removed that note? It's a rather unusual choice by the graphics team to use a real or simulated partially eclipsed moon, it seems they had some goal in mind with that.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

::An astronaut in space would indeed see a different color from what we see on the ground. See the image linked in my earlier comment. Also poke around the NASA website for astronaut's reports from the moon landings. I believe it was Alan Shepard (maybe David Scott) who called it "mousy brown". As for the "partially eclipsed" moon, take a closer look at the screen cap. It's not being eclipsed, it appears to be an upside-down waning gibbous moon heading into the last quarter. The perspective appears off because the Moon orbits the ecliptic and the curvature of the earth is off-plumb in the picture. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 12:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Gotta say I disagree. I've seen and photographed many regular and eclipsed moons, and in a regular waning gibbous, the terminator is nowhere near that soft. And take a closer look, the curvature is the wrong way for the terminator and the right way for an umbra. I have no idea why they used an eclipsed moon here, but that's what we have. Show me a picture of a non-eclipsed moon, from space, that looks remotely like this.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::The curvature is deceptive, given that the screen cap shows a curved piece of paper with an off-plumb perspective. It tracks quite closely with this: [http://www.billionsandbillions.com/GibbousMoon.html], again, upside-down. In this cycle, from this orbital perspective, the moon is rising from behind the earth. It is not being eclipsed. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 09:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, I'm pretty skilled in astronomy and those two pictures look nothing alike to me. The normal moon picture has a sharp terminator. It's a quarter moon with linear terminator. In a gibbous moon, the terminator would be curved down in Starbuck's picture. Another thing wrong with the picture is the moon is less than 1/3 as bright as the Earth when viewed together, but I will leave that to photoshop. The lunar terminator is always sharp. Starbuck's photo has a gradual fade to orange, which is only seen in a partial lunar eclipse.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 16:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Update: I pasted together 4 moons -- Thrace's picture, your gibbous, a partial lunar and a total lunar. Her moon looks nothing like the gibbous, and most like the total but the brightness would be way off. The curvature of the terminator is the big clue. I have no idea why the graphics artists sourced a moon in eclipse for this photo, but they seem to have. [http://www.templetons.com/etc/galacticamoons.jpg Four Moons]--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 18:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::I disagree and think you are massively overanalyzing the image from the art department. First, you're locked into ground-based thinking. Desaturate a photo of the moon from space and the terminator softens. A true lunar eclipse has a distinct double-gradient, which the image lacks. Further, even if we accept the possibility that the art department intended the moon to be in eclipse instead of simply artistic license for a photograph with mere seconds of screen time, such eclipses occur 5 to 7 times per year. Without knowing the year, the significance of the moon's position/condition is low. The purpose of the photo is to identify with the audience--which it does, by approximating the configuration of the mare. It is interesting speculation, but is not notable for the main page.
--[[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 11:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I would appreciate it if, before removing text that is under discussion, you waited to have the discussion first and see if there is consensus. Removal of other people's text is different from adding your own. While we obviously disagree on what a terminator looks like, I am not interpreting what's the use of an eclipsed image means, simply documenting it. If I'm wrong, there is no great harm. If it turns out to be significant you're removing material because your interpretation is different. We haven't seen any other opinions yet, so please be courteous in a two-person disagreement. If you have a photo of a terminator from space that looks anything like Starbuck's photo, you may offer it, but please restore my text until you do and others agree with you. Also note that no matter how much the terminator may "soften" from a particular view it never turns and becomes convex on a 3/4 moon!--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 07:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::The issue isn't the discussion. It's the fact that there's no reason to believe it to be significant, whatever the phase or transit status of the Moon. It is no more worth mentioning than the fact that the sky was grey when they landed on Earth. Leaving it in amidst the text doesn't make any sense. It's a throwaway photo used by Starbuck to show that she's been to Earth. The audience is meant to see the surface features of the moon and recognize it as our Moon. If it turns out to be significant, it can be added. There is no corroborating evidence of any kind, no mention in dialogue, and not even a rational theory that hinges on the significance of the shadow on the Moon. When doing any writing of this sort, what ''not'' to include is as important as what gets included. It's cruft. If there is any evidence to suggest it means something, please, share it. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 04:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== [[w:Iron Man (film)|Iron Man]] special preview? ==

Worth noting or no? Since it's not really relevant to the episode itself but the airing thereof..--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 03:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
: Not really worth noting. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

== Galactica Damage ==

Could anyone sort out some screenshots of the the damage done to Galactica please? :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 08:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Battlestar Wiki:Sandbox/He That Believeth in Me

2008-07-25T11:38:36Z

Dharadvani:

{{Episode Data
| image=4x01 - Promo 1.jpg
| title= He That Believeth In Me
| season= 4
| episode= 1
| forumthread= 729
| guests=
| extra= '''Season 4.0 Premiere'''
| writer= [[Bradley Thompson]] [[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| production=403
| rating= 1.6
| US airdate= 4 April 2008
| CAN airdate=4 April 2008
| UK airdate=15 April 2008
| dvd=
| population=39698
| oldpopulation=41399
| prev= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
| next= [[Six of One]]
| unbox=B00178W020
| frakr=He That Puteth In Me
}}

== Overview ==

: ''During a seemingly hopeless [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula|battle]], [[Kara Thrace]] appears in a pristine [[Viper Mark II|Viper]], claiming that she has been to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] and can lead the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] there -- but the terminal [[Laura Roslin]] believes otherwise. Meanwhile, four of the so-called [[Final Five]] are forced to tackle the repercussions of their newfound nature, while [[Gaius Baltar]] discovers he has a [[Cult of Baltar|commune of nubile female cultists]] who believe him to be an agent of the [[God (RDM)|"one true God"]]. ''

: '''''Note''': This is part one of a two-part episode. See the episode, "[[Six of One]]," for the conclusion.''

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

* [[Lee Adama]] and [[Kara Thrace]] are flying side-by-side, staring at each other across space. Lee is in a state of disbelief. Thrace rebukes his claim that her [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] [[Maelstrom#Act 4|exploded]]. She says that she's found Earth, describes some of its attributes, as the [[CIC]] crew listens to the chatter.
* [[William Adama]], who is clearly emotional, demands that the ship be identified. [[Felix Gaeta]] does so, replying that the ship's recognition codes match, while [[Anastasia Dualla]] tries to get Lee on the comline. [[Karl Agathon]] notes that the woman's voice sounds like Thrace's. [[Laura Roslin]], recovered from her [[Crossroads, Part II|earlier headache]], notes that it is likely a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] trick. Adama orders that the verification be duplicated, however Gaeta notes that more than 200 Cylon [[Raider (RDM)|Raider]]s are inbound. Adama orders that the Vipers and Raptor pickets engage the Cylons.
* Hearing the order, Thrace tells Lee not to lose her. "Not a chance," he replies, as both begin engaging the first wave of Raiders. Thrace kills a Raider, its blood covering her ship.
* [[Image:403 - Tigh scream, you scream, we all scream.jpg|thumb|[[Saul Tigh]] experiences a waking nightmare where he believes he shot [[William Adama]].]]Roslin reiterates her belief that Thrace's voice is a "Cylon trick". Gaeta reports that the Vipers have stopped the main Cylon thrust, but the reserves have broken through the line, and are headed to the Fleet. Adama tells [[Saul Tigh]] that he wants everything launched. Tigh hesitates, then experiences a vision where he pulls out a gun and shoots Adama in his right eye. However, he is awakened out of his waking-state "nightmare", as Adama continues to bark orders at him. He wants everyone who has "ever held a stick" up in the air. Unsure of what exactly happened, Tigh relays the order.
* [[Galen Tyrol]] is barking out orders on the [[hangar deck]]. Ensigns [[Diana Seelix]] and [[Samuel Anders]] arrive. En route to their ships, as Seelix goes off, Anders begins to vocally question whether or not he'll turn against "his own" after he launches. Tyrol tells him to "shut the [[frak]] up" and follow Tigh's lead: be the man he wants to be. During the pep-talk, [[Sharon Agathon]] approaches them, overhearing a snippet of the conversation. She asks who else would he be and then gives him advice to retain his cool out in the fray. She walks off to her Raptor; Anders is relieved that she didn't ferret him out, and hopes the other Cylons won't be able to either. Tyrol tells him to not give them the chance to find out, and tells Anders to get to his ship.
* [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Cult of Baltar|female admirers]], led by a woman named [[Jeanne]], escort Baltar through the ship, heading to a previously-abandoned compartment on the ship. En route, they pass by [[Charlie Connor]], who catches a glimpse of Baltar, even though Baltar is covered in a shawl.
* During the battle, a damaged Raider sprawls out of control and crashes into the ''[[Pyxis]]'', destroying the ship. Gaeta reports this and Roslin is shocked, saying that they've lost 600 souls, including Captain [[Tarney]]. Roslin then inquires as to how the Cylons were able to find them. Tigh and [[Tory Foster]] exchange glances [[Crossroads, Part II#Act 4|again]]. Gaeta reports that the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s have launched 50 plus missiles. Half are headed towards the Fleet, the other half are headed towards ''Galactica''. Adama believes that ''Galactica'' can take the beating, but the Fleet would be wiped out by such an attack; he orders that all the missiles headed towards the Fleet be shot down.
* Anders launches and, still fearing that he may have Cylon programming yet to be turned on, begins summarizing his life. Seelix replies that he's jamming up the wireless, since he has the transmit button pressed down. Anders release the button and chastises himself. Cylon warheads begin striking ''Galactica''. Two missiles headed toward the Fleet strike the ''[[Space Park]]'', damaging her. Seelix manages to destroy a warhead that would have struck ''[[Colonial One]]''. However, a Raider comes up from behind her and begins to pursue her. Anders comes up from behind the Raider, and attempts to take the Raider out, but his weapons have apparently seized. The Raider suddenly breaks off its attack on Seelix and confronts Anders. The Raider then performs some kind of scan on Anders using its red eye. Anders' iris in his right eye glows red and the Raider disengages. The Raiders flock back to the baseships, which spin their [[FTL]] drives, much to the confusion of the Colonials who know that the Cylons had them dead to rights.
* Adama orders that they take advantage of the opportunity they've been presented, ordering the fighters to cover their rear while the Fleet begins jump prep. Tigh asks why the Cylons withdrew, Foster replies that "maybe something's changed", referring to their newfound knowledge of being Cylons. Roslin asks what the "change" may be, but Tigh feigns ignorance.

=== Act 1 ===

* After the Fleet makes its first jump away from the Ionian Nebula, Baltar is being led to the women's enclave. [[Jeanne]] reassures him that he'll be safe as they approach a compartment previously dedicated to dry stowage. Connor and another male associate have followed the group to the compartment, but do not enter. In the compartment, Baltar enters a commune consisting mostly of young, nubile women and men, all primarily Caucasian. They look subserviently downward, unwilling to meet his gaze, until he comes across a shrine with glorified Christmas-lights. He merely looks around and mutters, "Right", in a state of semi-disbelief.
* Tyrol looks over Thrace's blood-covered, yet otherwise pristine Mark II Viper. As Thrace opens the cockpit, she tells Tyrol to develop her gun camera footage, claiming to have some great shots to show everyone. She asks for her post-flight checklist. Tyrol replies that she has none. Pilots who've landed start to approach Thrace and her Viper. Lee, who just landed, runs up and hugs her. From the walkway above the hangar bay, Tigh asks Adama if he believes in miracles. Adama replies in the negative. Anders follows Lee's suit, saying that he told everyone that she was too "frakking mean to kill". She notes Anders' apparel, learning that Anders has been trained as a Viper pilot, which she finds unbelievable. Thrace tells Adama that she found Earth. Adama replies with Marines, who are ordered to escort her to sickbay where [[Cottle]] will give her a complete examination. Thrace reveals that, from her point of view, she's been off the ship for six hours. Anders replies that it has been over two months since she died, which Lee confirms.
* [[Image:403 - God's presence.jpg|thumb|Baltar "feels" God's presence.]]In the commune, Jeanne tells Baltar that she's going to get her son, [[Derrick]], asking him not to go anywhere on the ship, since it isn't safe for him. Jeanne tells him that [[Tracey Anne]] will be with him to give him whatever he needs. Baltar claims that he's praying for Derrick, who is presently in ''Galactica's'' sickbay. When he asks about travel arrangements, Jeanne notes that security is too tight to smuggle him off ''Galactica''. Her fellow cultist, [[Paulla Schaffer]], adds that none of the other ships would have him. As they leave, [[Virtual Six]] in a red blouse appears to him. She asks why he is glum, given that he faced execution, yet was granted life. He replies that he's doomed to be stuck in a looney bin with a bunch of cultists. Virtual Six assures him that she hasn't brought him this far for nothing, then he begins to ask for a ray of hope for the future... Tracey Anne sees Baltar on his knees, appearing to pray. She finds the way he prays beautiful, not just some hollow ritual. She tells him that when she prays, she feels empty. Prompted by Six, Baltar claims that the Gods they worship are false and that there is only one true God, all the while she's copping a feel on him. As he explains how the gods were propagated by the "ruling elite" to suppress their knowledge of "the truth", she unbuttons his shirt. As he reveals that "there's only one God", Tracey Anne exposes her breasts to him. Assured that they are alone and the door is locked, she moves his hands to cup her breasts, where Tracey Anne asks him if he feels God's presence. "You know what," he replies glibly, "I think I do." Then they fornicate in the presence of the shrine.
* In Adama's quarters, Thrace is told that all her tests check out, and it appears she is human. She accuses them of thinking that she's a Cylon. Roslin, who is present with Tory Foster and Lee Adama, presses her for her story of how she found Earth. Thrace claims that she followed a [[Heavy Raider]] into the storm, taking some fire, then blacked out. When she came to, she was orbiting Earth, which she was able to identify from the descriptions in the [[Book of Pythia]]. Showing the pictures that were developed from her gun camera, she claims that the pictures are of Earth and her moon. Further, she claims to have been able to match the star configurations from what was seen in the [[Tomb of Athena]]. Thrace claims that she doesn't know how she was able to find them at the Ionian Nebula. Roslin continues to press her for information. She replies that she turned the ship to a reciprocal heading, and later blacked out. She adds that she remembers a giant gas planet with rings. She also claims to have seen a comet. Roslin moves to questioning the time discrepancy. Thrace remains adamant that she found Earth, took the pictures, and was able to return to the Fleet.
* In the hangar bay, Tyrol shows Adama (who is accompanied by Roslin, Foster, Lee, and Tigh) the Viper Thrace returned in. He notes that, after it was cleaned up, the Viper is pristine, as if it came off the "showroom floor". Tyrol confirms that while the tail numbers match the one she flew out on, the ship is not the same one he's been repairing for years. Further, the navigational computer has no entries in it. Roslin tells Adama to put Thrace in the brig. Lee objects, asking about Cottle's test. Tigh grumpily replies that Cottle's test doesn't mean a thing, and also that Baltar's [[Cylon detector]] is a crock that failed to identify [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]. <ref>Despite Tigh mentioning the Cylon detector, dialogue only states that Doctor Cottle compared Thrace's DNA with the one on record in her files (the same procedure he used with [[Bulldog]] in "[[Hero]]"). Baltar's Cylon detector, however, uses a more complex molecular analysis to generate a result.</ref> Adama ruefully notes that they're back at square one. Any one of them can be a Cylon, and they wouldn't know it until they had a bullet in their heads, or led the Fleet into an ambush. Roslin notes that something stopped the Cylons from destroying the Fleet, and she believes that Thrace is somehow responsible for it. Further, Roslin believes that Thrace was returned to them to pull them off their course. Lee notes that they don't have a course, since they weren't able to stay at the nebula. He posits that Thrace may very well be the "signpost" they've been looking for, but Roslin will have none of it.

=== Act 2 ===

* Baltar and Tracey Anne, both unclothed, are awakened by the presence of Jeanne and the cultists. Jeanne brings Derrick, who is ill with viral encephalitis and cannot be treated with medicines, and asks Baltar to pray for his recovery. Baltar says that Derrick has to be strong, and they have to be strong for him. Jeanne says that she didn't want Derrick to die in the [[sickbay]]. Baltar reiterates his claim that he prays for Derrick. Jeanne claims to know this, but adds that she believes that the "one true God" doesn't want Derrick to live. A wide-eyed, nutty Baltar cannot answer this question.
* In Tigh's quarters, the "[[frakr:Fantastic Four|Final Four]]" are assembled. Tigh inquires about the "[[The Music|frakking music]]", and everyone replies that they no longer hear it. Tyrol posits that it may have stopped upon discovering their true natures, but they still don't know for certain what it was. Anders recites his experience with the Cylon Raider scanning him. Even after Anders recalls the tale, they don't know what to make of the Cylons' sudden retreat, or Ander's inability to fire on the Raider. Tigh remains adamant that [[Racetrack]] was right: Anders had made a "dumb nugget mistake" by leaving the weapon safeties on. They broach the topic of being programmed to sabotage the Fleet, like [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]. Tigh vociferously contends that Boomer did not know who she was; they do, and they silently agree to kill themselves before they do anything against the humans.
* Roslin visits [[Caprica Six]] in the brig. Roslin discusses the shared dream they experienced in the [[Opera House]], where Caprica saw more than she did. Roslin asks Caprica to help her with information regarding the Cylons known as the Final Five, since she wants to know if Kara Thrace is one of them. Caprica replies that they are programmed not to think of the Five, but notes that they are close since she can feel them.
* [[Image:Thrace's headache.jpg|thumb|Thrace experiences a headache...]]In the CIC, Thrace is reviewing star charts with Gaeta, who is clearly aggravated. Agathon notices Gaeta's behavior and relieves him. Thrace notes that no one believes her, since everyone seems to think she's a Cylon. In a conversation that begins to get heated, Adama overhears Thrace's reasoning that finding the star systems on their charts won't work. Thrace tells them that she can find the way to Earth by feeling it. She says that the more jumps they do away from their starting point (the Ionian Nebula), the harder it is for her to tell the road to Earth, given that they are going the wrong way. Adama dismisses Agathon. Adama reveals that Roslin's adamant that they continue the course laid before them by the [[Eye of Jupiter]]. As they execute another FTL jump, Thrace experiences a headache and says they're going the wrong way, and fears she may lose the feeling completely. She asks for them to go back to the nebula and while Adama would like to believe her, he can't go to Roslin and ask her to dismiss the writings of Pythia and the information derived from the supernova. Adama reveals that he's just "left her ship", noting that it is pristine, and asks her to explain that fact. She cannot, but swears to the Gods that she ''is'' Kara Thrace and that he can trust her on her intuition. Adama painfully replies that he can't afford to trust her, and she leaves with her marine escort.

=== Act 3 ===

* [[Image:Yet another frakking Adama talk.jpg|thumb|The Adamas reconcile... a tad.]]Lee and William Adama are watching Lee's gun camera footage of Thrace's death near the mandala. The elder Adama asks whether he should believe his heart or his eyes. Lee replies that he shares the same state of mind. Adama says he wants to believe Thrace, but notes that Roslin's right, and that the Cylons may be counting on Adama's belief. He adds that they'll follow Roslin's lead for the time being. Lee asks if Roslin's still staying in his father's quarters. Adama replies in the positive, noting that this is temporary until they can find quarters where she can wait for the remaining [[diloxin]] treatments. Adama thanks Lee for suiting up during the fight. As an unspoken apology for an earlier heated discussion about Lee's integrity, Adama offers Lee his wings back. However, Lee notes that while he removed those for the wrong reasons, he's had feelers from the government, who have offered him a chance to do more than he ever could do in the cockpit. He feels that Baltar's trial was a "trigger", but he notes that he needs a change and move on. After an uncomfortable, solemn silence, Lee asks what would have happened had [[Zak Adama|Zak]] had been in the cockpit, and it was revealed that he were a Cylon, and always had been. He asks if they would still love him, but Adama does not answer the question.
* At the commune, Baltar watches over Derrick as Jeanne and the others sleep. He then makes a decision to leave, but before he does so, he returns and prays over Derrick. Baltar asks why God should choose to take an innocent life instead of his own, because he's failed so many people and brought so much grief on the human race, yet the boy has done nothing to sin against God. As he prays, the women wake up and stare at him. Jeanne also awakens and begins to cry softly, clearly touched by this display. After Baltar is done, he looks around and walks away.
* Later on, Baltar and Schaffer walk through ''Galactica'''s oddly empty corridors heading towards the officer's head. During the conversation, she says that they were all moved by Baltar's prayer. Baltar ruefully notes that it did no good, as Derrick's sickness has become worse. Schaffer tells Baltar that the prayer helped ensure that God looks after his immortal soul, which Baltar glibly snaps at. Baltar tells Schaffer that they shouldn't look at him for guidance, implying that they are young and easily misguided. Baltar inquires as to what they're doing in the head, in reply to which, she snaps out a straight razor which he uses to shave his beard. After he is fully shaven, Charlie Connor enters. He appears very cordial towards Baltar, addressing him as "Mister President", and despite Schaffer's urging, Baltar strikes up a conversation with Connor. Connor reveals that they met at [[Founders' Day]] on [[New Caprica]], where Baltar also met Kevin (his son) who told Baltar that he wanted to be president when he grew up. Baltar then asks after Kevin. Connor reveals that Kevin died at the hands of the [[New Caprica Police]] during the Cylon occupation. Schaffer heads towards the hatch, only to be restrained by an associate of Connor's (possibly [[Shaunt]]). As she's being restrained, Connor assaults Baltar and places the razor Baltar used to Baltar's throat. Connor orders Baltar to look at him; Baltar does so, wide-eyed.

=== Act 4 ===

[[Image:Connor attacks Baltar.jpg|thumb||right|[[Charlie Connor]] attacks [[Gaius Baltar]].]]
*Connor demands that Baltar scream. He wants to know if anyone would come after him. Meanwhile, Shaunt begins choking Schaffer to death. Baltar is brought to his knees. When Connor starts cutting into his throat, Virtual Six arises and asks if he was sincere in his prayer. He replies to Six that he is sincere, and begs that his life be taken. Connor is flummoxed at this. Schaffer manages to break free from Shaunt and breaks off a handle from a nearby floor washing bucket. She beats Shaunt with it, incapacitating him, then saves Baltar. She continues to beat Connor until Baltar stops her.
* En route to the commune, an exhilarated Schaffer says that she knew God wouldn't abandon Baltar and that she had felt his love course through her, giving her the power to smite his attackers. He ruefully retorts that there'd be less fighting next time, unless she wants to be brought up on murder charges.
* Baltar enters the enclave to discover that Derrick has fully recovered from his encephalitis. As the cultists look on at him, Six appears with a smirk on her face.
[[Image:Thrace and her gun.jpg|thumb||right|Thrace points a gun at Laura Roslin.]]
*In the [[memorial hallway]], Thrace notes to Anders that no one has removed her picture from the wall. Anders tells her to cut Adama and everyone some slack, since they are trying to figure out what happened to her. She tells Anders that she figured her experience of finding Earth was a dream. She begins theorizing about the logistics of her return aloud, speculating that the Cylons may have pulled her out of the soup and brainwashed her, or managed to clone her from parts that were extracted from her during her time in the Cylon baby [[farms]]. Anders disputes this, saying that if she were a Cylon, she's been one from the beginning. He professes his undying love for her, even if she may be a Cylon. She replies that he's more forgiving that she'd ever be, noting that if Anders were a Cylon, she'd kill him. After another jump, Thrace experiences another headache. She insists that the Fleet's going the wrong way. She claims that if she goes through one more jump, she'll lose the way. Anders offers her a bunk, but Thrace begins to believe that the only way to stop going the wrong way is to deal with Roslin. She incapacitates [[Brandy Harder|Harder]], while Anders knocks [[Nowart]]'s gun aside before he can fire it. Thrace incapacitates Nowart as well. Anders asks what the hell she's doing. She asks where Roslin is, but Anders refuses to answer, so she knocks him out. Thrace takes out the marines guarding Adama's quarters, using a stun grenade<ref>Also known as a "flash bang", see the [[w:Grenade#Stun grenades|Wikipedia article about it]]</ref>. Roslin, who is sleeping in Adama's bunk, awakens to find Thrace approaching her. As Roslin stands, Thrace aims a gun at her head.

== Notes ==

=== General ===

* This season shows the first major change in the teaser titles since the series began. Instead of the "Cylons have a Plan" claim, the new titles show: "Twelve Cylon models. Seven are known. Four live in secret. One will be revealed."
* The gun Saul Tigh uses in his "nightmare" against [[William Adama]] is the same weapon that [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] shot Adama with in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
* The [[FTL]] jump at the end of the episode is an abbreviated version of the [[w:Vertigo zoom|Vertigo zoom]] effect, which has not been seen since the [[Miniseries]].
* The title is a reference to John 11:25-26, which says:
*: Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: '''he that believeth in me''', though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (King James Bible)
* In Baltar's conversation with [[Tracey Anne]], he reveals the name of one more of the [[Lords of Kobol (RDM)|Gods]], [[Poseidon]], a God in the Greek pantheon.

=== Characters ===

* While Anders played for a professional Caprican [[pyramid]] team, he was (allegedly) born on [[Picon (RDM)|Picon]] and enrolled in [[Noyce Elementary School]].
* Like everyone else, Tigh is unaware that the Cylon detector correctly identified Boomer as a Cylon, and that Baltar reprogrammed the detector to give only negative test results ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]").

=== Fleet ===
* The [[survivor count|population]] of the Fleet, which hasn't been revealed since "[[The Son Also Rises]]" (but is assumed to be around 41,398) is 39,698. 600 of those were people who died aboard the ''Pyxis'', the other 1,101 likely died on other ships during the attack. The survivor count also takes into account the return of Kara Thrace.
* The number of people killed, 1701, is a nod to the registry number of the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Enterprise|Enterprise]]'' from the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek|Star Trek]]'' series. The number is seen again in "[[The Ties That Bind]]" on a [[weapons locker]] where the "[[Final Five|Fantastic Four]]" meet.
* As revealed in this episode's [[Podcast:He That Believeth In Me|podcast]], the ''[[Space Park]]'' is not destroyed during the battle per [[Ron D. Moore]]'s request.

=== Production ===

*The title was first reported as "He That Believath In Me". Writer [[User:Ngarenn|Bradley Thompson]] [[BW:OC#Season 4 First Episode Title|confirmed]] that this was an unintentional misspelling.
* "He That Believeth In Me" and "[[Six of One]]" aired back-to-back as a two hour TV event in UK.
* As with Season 3's season opener, the length of this episode's teaser clocks near the 10 minute mark.
* [[Katee Sackhoff]] has been re-added to the opening credit roll, since her "stunt" removal in the episodes "[[The Son Also Rises]]" and the "[[Crossroads]]" two-parter. (Although she was credited in the end-credits for "[[Crossroads, Part II]]".)

=== Gaffes ===

* The stills from Thrace's gun camera footage incorrectly show ''Galactica'' as belonging to Battlestar Group 62. Given that ''Pegasus'' was in BSG 62, the production staff likely modified and re-used a graphic template from an earlier episode, but the incorrect number slipped past them.
* When Thrace's Viper appears at the end of "[[Crossroads, Part II]]", the pilot-callsign stencils below the cockpit are missing, but they are shown at the beginning of this episode and all subsequent shots.
* Moreover, in promotional photos for this episode, the tail number of Thrace's Viper is [[Viper 4267|4267 NC]], the same Viper that [[Chuckles]] used and died in during the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]". This number was digitally removed in the aired version to match the Viper that was destroyed in "Maelstrom": [[Viper 8757]].

== Analysis ==

=== Gaius Baltar and his cult ===

* Baltar's cult is a cult-of-personality, where Gaius Baltar is seen by some humans as a messianic, mortal savior, in a parallel to the Cylon [[Hybrid]]'s designation of Baltar as "the chosen one". Further, no reason for this apparently sudden rise of the "Baltar cult" has yet been provided.
* While Baltar's appearance during Season 3 increasingly resembled that the classic image of Jesus Christ as bearded and long-haired, his messianic cult has him shave and cut his hair to shed this image. However, Baltar's new willingness to sacrifice himself for others has made him more of a Christ figure in action, even as he becomes less of one in appearance.
* Baltar's cult seems to have amassed a following comprising mostly of women who are Caucasian, well-fit, reasonably well-proportioned, and within the ages of 20 to 40. Further, the cult seems to be disturbingly similar to the "Manson Family" in this regard, although Baltar is more-or-less placed in the position as cult's spiritual leader.
* The cult is also hedonistic, verging on counter-cultural (the class-warfare against the Fleet's so-called "aristocracy"), cooperative, and religious. Apparently, the room is shared by all, and sexual intercourse with one another is implied as being common, as the cultists do not appear surprised that Baltar and [[Tracey Anne]] have engaged in intercourse.

===Baltar's Virtual Six===

* Baltar's [[Virtual Six]] seems to have reached an understanding about his sexual liaisons with other women. Where she once seemed jealous and hurt (as in "[[Colonial Day]]", despite professing that he could have sex with whoever he wanted because his heart belonged to her), she now seems much more at ease and even encouraging of his sexual liaison with Tracey Anne.
* Her wardrobe, however, has also undergone a change: where she formerly appeared almost exclusively in either a revealing red dress or in a swimsuit (during Baltar's visions of the two of them at his now-destroyed home on Caprica), in this episode she appears exclusively in a professional-looking suit of the same bright-red color as her old dress. Could this signify a change in how she perceives her relationship with Baltar? Although she has obviously harbored romantic feelings for him in the past, it is possible that she now perceives her role in a more professional and detached manner, and is choosing to put aside her own feelings in favor of guiding him down the path that God has laid out for him.

=== Ionian Nebula ===

* The Fleet-wide power-loss, and subsequent power recovery, remains unexplained.
* It is heavily implied that the Cylons now know that the Final Five are in the Fleet, given their rapid withdrawal during the battle.
* Further, it remains unexplained how the Cylons were able to track the Fleet to the nebula. They were either able to determine the Fleet's projected course, despite the efforts to use the ''Daru Mozu'' as a decoy, or found another way to track the Fleet.
* The battle within the nebula demonstrates that ''Galactica'' remains combat ready and able to engage Cylon basestars with all her weapons despite the damage suffered during the [[Battle of New Caprica]]. A visual effects shot of the warship following the battle shows one dorsal primary [[Battery|gun battery]] has been lost, likely during the impact that forces the crew in CIC to brace themselves. The port side water tank may also be destroyed, as there seem to be a large hole in the port side of the hull and the adjacent "ribs" are bent or destroyed.
*Despite Racetrack's claim in "[[Torn]]" that ''Galactica'' has more trained pilots than ships as result of the combination of the crews of both battlestars, this episode shows Admiral Adama pressing nuggets into action in order to have as many Vipers flying as possible. This suggests either Racetrack was exaggerating or speaking only about Raptor pilots; or that ''Galactica's'' Viper compliment is now very large after also taking in ''Pegasus'''s existing and newly-constructed Vipers.
* The battle marks the first overt Cylon attack on the civilian fleet since before the settling of New Caprica, where the Cylons indicated they no longer wished to wipe out the Colonials.

=== Kara Thrace ===

* As to be expected, Kara Thrace's return is clouded in suspicion. Given the effects of time dilation she had experienced (six hours from her perspective, more than two months from the Fleet's), she may have experienced a form [[w:gravitational time dilation|gravitational time dilation]], given her proximity to the mandala phenomenon in "[[Maelstrom]]" and the hard deck.
* The "missing time" phenomenon and the lack of navigation data in the Viper's computer are similar to the [[w:Abduction phenomenon|abduction experiences]] that have been reported. Coincidentally, these experiences allege paralysis and "blinding light." Kara Thrace experienced the blinding light phenomenon in "Maelstrom" before her death, and her lack of control in pulling up her Viper from the hard deck does suggest a form of paralysis, or even distraction, whereby her mind was occupied and thus ignored the warnings from Lee Adama, et al.
* Her apparently strange trip through time and space may suggest a possible wormhole or spacial anomaly. If so, the inability of Adama, Roslin, and others to seriously consider this possibility again highlights the [[naturalistic science fiction]] aspect of the series (though the absence of Dr. Baltar's scientific expertise may also be a factor). Wormholes would be a phenomenon known to the Colonials, as Adama mentions them in "[[Sacrifice]]".
* Thrace has feelings of [[w:theophany|theophany]] before her death in "Maelstrom". Further, these feelings have somehow influenced her and manifested extra-sensory abilities that leads her to a [[w:Jeanne d'Arc|Jeanne d'Arc]]-ian crusade, believing that she can lead the Fleet to Earth.
* Thrace's headaches are likely similar in nature to [[Laura Roslin]]'s headache in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]" after arriving at the [[Ionian Nebula]]. After a jump is executed, Thrace experiences these headaches as well, however the headaches lead her to believe that they are further and further down the wrong path and away from Earth.

=== Thrace's claims ===

[[Image:Kara Thrace Reconnaissance Photos.png|250px|thumb|right|Gun camera footage of [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]]]

* When speaking of her claim about [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], Thrace mentions the moon being "yellow", matching the description of Pythia. Earth's moon, when viewed from space, is a dull, pale yellowish brown. Her photo, taken from above the atmosphere, shows a slightly yellowish moon over a grayish planet with white flecks. However, the photographs are very desaturated - to the point of being black and white - and very likely don't represent the true colors.
* While initially believed that Thrace's "giant gas planet with rings" was any of the four [[w:Gas giant|Jovian]] planets ([[w:Jupiter|Jupiter]] or [[w:Saturn|Saturn]], notably), this is [[Faith|later disproved]].

=== The Final Five ===

* Given their animal-like nature, the biological Cylon Raiders are able to identify members of the Final Five, as [[Samuel Anders]] experiences during the Battle of the Ionian Nebula.
* Sharon Agathon and Caprica Six are incapable of identifying the Final Five models, even after they've been "activated", to use the term loosely.
* The episode does not delve too deeply into [[Tory Foster]] or [[Galen Tyrol]]'s reactions to their newfound natures, however this will doubtless be the case in future episodes. The episode centers around [[Saul Tigh]], who has become the ''de facto'' leader of the "Final Four", and [[Samuel Anders]].
* Saul Tigh begins to have nightmares in his waking state. He envisions pulling out a gun and killing Adama, harkening back to [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]]'s assassination attempt in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]". In his nightmare, he shoots Adama in the right eye, the same eye Tigh lost during his torture on [[New Caprica]].

==== Samuel Anders ====

[[Image:Ander's red eye.jpg|thumb|Anders's eye responding to a Raider's IFF.]]

* During the battle, Anders maneuvers behind a Cylon Raider on Seelix's six, but fails to fire his guns. The Cylon Raider seems to sense something different about the chasing Viper and turns around to face it. The Raider's forward lid lowers to reveal its scanning red eye, reminiscent of when Raiders accessed the backdoor in Baltar's [[Command Navigation Program]] in the [[Miniseries]]. Its eye locks straight ahead at Anders, and after a moment Ander's right iris faintly flashes red in response to the Raider's [[IFF]] transponder. The Raider then raises its lid and breaks off, broadcasting its discovery to the rest of the attacking Cylon fleet, which disengages and retreats.
* There is no indication that Anders's inability to fire on the Cylon Raider is because of any technical problem with the Viper. His safeties remain engaged during the battle, which is figured to be one of two things in the episode: what [[Margaret Edmondson]] and Tigh chalk up as a "dumb [[nugget]] mistake", or what Anders suspects is subconscious Cylon programming.

=== Comparisons to the Original Series ===

* The episode shares many of the same concepts in common from the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], particularly the mythology laid down in the Original Series's two-parter "[[War of the Gods]]". In that episode, it is revealed that there are greater forces at work in the universe: Count [[Iblis]], who is insinuated to have started the [[Thousand Yahren War]] that resulted in the [[Battle of Cimtar|Colonies' destruction]], and the "forces of good", the [[Beings of Light]] who [[Adama (TOS)|Adama]] describes as being "guardians of the universe".
** Essentially, in "[[War of the Gods, Part II]]", [[Apollo (TOS)|Apollo]] is killed by a bolt that Iblis meant for [[Sheba]]. After the encounter, Iblis is captured by the Beings of Light, as are Starbuck and Sheba, who leave the [[red planet]] with Apollo's cadaver in their [[Colonial Shuttle (TOS)|shuttle]]. Much like [[Kara Thrace]], Apollo comes back from the dead. While Thrace's resurrection has yet been explained—this being one of the mysteries that drives the current season—Apollo is restored by the Beings of Light.
** Further, like Thrace, the three Warriors of the Original Series experience lost time, memory loss, and feelings of theophany. Additionally, they are given the coordinates to [[Earth (TOS)|Earth]], which are buried in their subconscious only to be awakened by a suggestion Adama makes to the three Warriors. On the other hand, Kara Thrace is given (allegedly) a feeling of extra-sensory perception, being able to "feel" her way to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].
* It should also be noted that the Beings of Light in the Original Series are capable of moving ships to different locations. In "[[Experiment in Terra]]", this is done to Apollo's ship as they move him well ahead of a patrol from ''[[Galactica (TOS)|Galactica]]''. Blackouts and memory loss (such as those apparently exhibited by Thrace) also demonstrated in the Original Series's abduction and subsequent encounters with the Beings of Light.
* A potential abduction of Starbuck could relate to the Ship of Lights from the Original Series. These advanced humans evolved to state where they appear to be gods to the Colonials. Likewise, Count Iblis is their satanic counterpart who tries to seduce the Colonial fleet into submission, however, he can't triumph over these benevolent beings of "light," much the same way Lucifer cannot triumph over God in Christian traditions. To extrapolate the analogy further, the Final Five may be members of a benevolent, evolved line of humans who are watching over the Fleet, whereas the Significant Seven represent Count Iblis and the Devil.

== Questions ==

* Did [[Samuel Anders]] make a "dumb [[nugget]] mistake" as Tigh contends, or was it some form of programing that asserted itself?
* Does [[Charlie Connor]] survive the massive beating he experiences at the hands of [[Paulla Schaffer]]?
* Is Kara Thrace the final Cylon? ([[Revelations|Possible answer]])
* Where did Thrace get her pristine Viper?
* Are Thrace's claims about being to Earth true? ([[Revelations|Answer]])
* Why is the Viper's camera footage viable, yet nothing is found in the navigational records?
* Why have the Significant Seven Cylons been programmed to not think of the Final Five?
* Can the Significant Seven identify the Final Five once they are able to bypass this imperative? ([[Revelations|Possible answer]])
* Could the gun camera footage from Anders's Viper be used to expose him?
* Was Tigh or Tyrol ever tested by Baltar's Cylon detector before the apparent failure of Boomer's test made the Colonials decide it was useless?
* Would the test identify a Final Five Cylon? Would there be a difference before and after "activation"?
* How did the Cylon fleet locate the Colonial fleet in the Ionian Nebula?

== Official Statements ==

* ''Information from [[Ron Moore]]'s [[Podcast:He That Believeth In Me|podcast]]:''
** A scene was cut where either Anders himself or another crew member cuts off the cast of his leg, thus partially explaining the absence of the leg injury he sustained at the end of Season 3.
** Moore insisted that the ''[[Space Park]]'' (which he just calls "the ring ship") not be destroyed, but only damaged, because he likes it very much.
** The rooms used by Baltar's cult are referred to as "Baltar's lair" by the writers.
** Moore says that Thrace's pristine Viper will play an important role later in the season.
** The writers are aware of Baltar's visual similarity to Jesus. While Moore admits that it helps to drive some things home, he points out that Baltar is not Jesus.

* ''[[Aaron Douglas]] (via [[w:Anthrax|Anthrax]]'s [[w:Scott Ian|Scott Ian]]) explains an ad-lib that was dropped from one of Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]'s scenes:''
:"I had the best adlib ever in the scene where Chief walks onto the hangar deck yelling for the [[nugget]]s. It didn't make it into the show. What did make it was something like “lets go nuggets! your momma's aren't going to save ya today” it is all adlib'd but one take I said, & this is pure gold, “drop your dicks and grab your sticks!” 5 seconds later [[Harvey Frand|Harvey [Frand]]] (producer) says from video village, “you can't say dicks on TV”. We had to do it again. Ha." <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://blogs.scifi.com/battlestar/scottian/2008/04/drop-your-dicks-and-grab-your.html|title=SCIFI.com - Scott Ian's Blog: Drop your dicks and grab your sticks!!|date=7 April 2008|accessdate=7 April 2008|last=Ian|first=Scott|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

* ''[[Saul Tigh]] experiences a disturbing daydream:''
: '''[[William Adama]]:''' Saul. Saul! What the hell is wrong with you?
: '''Saul Tigh:''' Nothing, Bill. (Tigh pulls out a gun and aims it at Adama.) I've never felt better in my entire life. (Tigh shoots Adama through his right eye.)

* ''[[Galen Tyrol]] barks out orders:''
: '''Galen Tyrol:''' Get that [[Showboat]] bird in the tube. Where the [[frak]] are these [[nugget]]s? '''C'mon! Momma's not gonna save ya today! Let's go!''' You want to fly or not?

* ''[[Virtual Six]] talks to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]]:''
: '''Virtual Six:''' Yesterday you were facing execution. Today, you're free. Why the long face?
: '''Baltar:''' Oh, gee, I don't know. From President of the Colonies to this... King of fools. Probably best to be hated by everyone than loved by this lot, doomed to live out the rest of my life in this looney bin. I don't know, that might have something to do with my rather savage mood swings.
: '''Virtual Six:''' Relax Gaius. Do you think I've brought you this far to let it end here?
: '''Baltar:''' I need encouragement. A ray of hope about the future. An inkling.
: '''Virtual Six:''' You've got me. I'm here for you.

* ''Lee Adama asks his father an uncomfortable set of questions:''
: '''Lee Adama:''' Dad, what if [[Zak Adama|Zak]] had come back to us in that Viper? If my brother had climbed out of that cockpit, would it matter if he were a Cylon? If he always had been? When all said and done, would that really change how we feel about him?

* ''Baltar's prayer for [[Derrick]]:''
: '''Gaius Baltar:''' Please God, I'm asking you this one last time, don't let this child die. Has he sinned against you? He can't have sinned against you. He's not even had a life yet. How can you take him and let me live... after all I've done? Really, if you want someone to suffer, take me. We both know I deserve it. I'm selfish and weak. I have failed so many people. I have killed. I'm not asking for your forgiveness, I'm just asking that you spare the life of this innocent child. Don't take him. Take me. Take me, take me, please.

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon| Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Michael Trucco]] as Ensign [[Samuel Anders]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as Lieutenant [[Anastasia Dualla]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Colin Corrigan]] as [[Nowart]]
* [[Lukas Pummell]] as [[Derrick]]
* [[Ryan Robbins]] as [[Charlie Connor]]
* [[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as [[Jeanne]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edomondson]]
* [[Jennifer Halley]] as Ensign [[Diana Seelix|Diana "Hardball" Seelix]]
* [[Shaun Omaid]] as [[Shaunt]]
* [[Leela Savasta]] as [[Tracey Anne]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Heather Doerksen]] as Sergeant [[Brandy Harder]] (credited as "Marine #2")

== External Link ==

*Composer [[Bear McCreary]] discusses the episode's score: http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=241#more-241

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

{{wikifrakr|He That Puteth In Me}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:He That Believeth In Me]]
[[zh:信我者他]]

Talk:He That Believeth In Me/Archive 1

2008-07-25T11:36:23Z

Dharadvani:

== Citing issue ==

There is a problem with "Go Between, Inc.". Understandably they don't keep the data forever. Searching for "battlestar" now only yields results for "[[Six of One]]". The data for "[[Razor]]" and this episode is gone. So the cite is kinda pointless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:01, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
: Ran into something like this with [[New Caprican loco weed]] ... the Sci-Fi thread where some of the "Also known as" names came from disappeared. Maybe we should note in the cite "info no longer available"? [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 15:04, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
::Better to remove the cite if we can't back it up (and delete the article, if necessary). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:44, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Deleting the article because the cite isn't available anymore, would be an overreaction though. All other BSG sites still list this (even if we have more stringent citation standards). I'd prefer somehow indicating that the site isn't available anymore. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:25, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
: I agree with Serenity, but of course I'm an inclusionist. The data did exist. Perhaps there is a Google cache (or other website cache) of it still available. I notice the date it was retrieved is part of the cite, I think that is a good thing. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 07:21, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::If it's still in the Google cache, we could copy it to Sources:Go Between or something like that. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:52, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Keeping in mind we're not a news source, perhaps it would be better to make a ''screen capture'' of such information to make a permanent source copy on BS Media that cannot expire. The capture as well as the tenuous article sourcing can be removed later once we get more firm sourcing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:15, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::That would be feasible. Unless someone has a better idea, that might be the best. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:24, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Excellent idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

== Update ==

Mark Verheiden reports on his [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2007/08/bsg-update-next.html blog] that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson are writing this episode. I've updated the article accordingly. Also, he reports that officially the production numbers for Razor are 401 and 402, and Season 4, Episode 1 is going to be 403. --[[User:Freevo|Freevo]] 10:51, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:I don't think writers need to be cited, though we can add a footnote if anyone feels the need. I'll add the production number, though seeing this as episode 1 of Season 4 still makes sense. Production numbers can be very confusing. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:52, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
::Currently, [[400]] and [[4.00]] redirect to [[Razor]], and [[401]] and [[4.01]] redirect to [[He That Believeth In Me]], a system that I think is more logical than the production numbers. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:33, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:::Agreed. We just need to keep production and episode numbers apart. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

== Space Park Damaged etc ==

Er, sorry but wheres the citation to support this spoiler? The only thing i've seen that would represent this, is a fan made trailer circulated around youtube, which featured the Battlestars Titan and Hades...whilst well done, everything barring some leaked footage of starbuck, is done entirely on a home computer by the looks of it...so i say again, where did this spoiler appear from? --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 23:17, 31 January 2008 (CST)
: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkYvXmD94e0&feature=related Here]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:47, 1 February 2008 (CST)
::I dont like the way this season is going...i wasn't particularly enamoured with the whole 'final 5' story either...oh well, i guess they just ran out of steam :( --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 16:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)
:::Any one notice that [[Scylla]] was in the fleet towards the end of the battle.--[[User:CoreyDanian|Corey Danian]] 15 May 2008 11.23 pm (CST)

==SciFi ep?==
I am currently on the West Coast and it's 12:02pm, yet I cannot find anywhere on the SciFi website where the episode is streaming. It says it is there, but I don't see a link. Any ideas?[[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 19:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:It was 12pm EDT and 9am PST :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 19:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

==Callsigns==
Diana Seelix and Sam Anders' callsigns are mentioned as "Longshot" and "Hardball", I just can't figure out which is which. Anyone know what's what? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't recall hearing those callsigns, but Seelix has been confirmed as Hardball since as far back as October. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:: "Longshot" isn't Anders' callsign... He mixed up the callsigns when he was trying to cover [[Tally]]... The video for the entire episode is [[He That Believeth In Me/Watch|here]] if you want to check it out. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Oh. Now I've got that. The first two times I must have thought that "Tally" was jargon. He must have one, of course. Where does "Hotshot" come from? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 03:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Now someone entered that Athena called Anders "C-Buck" on his article. That can only happen during their scene on the hangar deck, but I don't hear anything like that. She says. "Hey rook. Stay cool out there, alright. You'll lock on/in and do what you've been trained to do. Come on." -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, I was listening out for callsigns and the like. I have never heard "C-Buck" once in the episode... The only time that "C-Bucks" ever come up is way back in "Exodus". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 14:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Wait, "tally" *is* pilot jargon. What makes us so sure that it's a callsign? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:I am still listen to the episode sound. I recorded that section so I can play it back over and over and I am trying to take out the ambient noise. I will let you know what I come up with. (This is what having a powerfull computer can do!) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because he clearly corrects himself after saying the first callsign... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::Ok. I have listened to it. After further review I hear "Longshot, '''Tally'''. I got your back". Directly afterwards I can hear crystal clear that Anders says "Selix, you got a raider on your back." So going back to how sub sections communicate, "Conn. Weapons. Estimated time to 1SQ is 15 mintues." (From Crimson Tide) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Here's what I heard of the wireless exchange between Seelix and Anders:
::::Seelix: Longshot, Hardball ... turkey right four low at three ... committing.
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the ... Tally! I've got your back.
:::IMO, the conversation goes
::::Seelix: Longshot (Anders), [this is] Hardball (Seelix) ... turkey (Cylon missile) right four low at three ... committing (engaging).
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the (he is either identifying himself, or winces because he realizes he just called Seelix by his own callsign and/or has trouble assembling proper fighter shorthand) ... Tally (I see your target)! I've got your back.
:::So I'd put my hat into Longshot being Anders's callsign. If there is indeed a third pilot with the callsign "Tally", you'd figure the pilot would have acknowledged over wireless.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 03:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, you've convinced me. Yeah, seems that "Longshot" is his callsign. Although, I would personally like more definitive proof before we proceed on that assumption, which shouldn't be a problem in the future episodes that are coming up. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Besides, what's the point in giving someone a callsign ("Tally") that is identical to the popular jargon word used by pilots every now and then? It could cause some serious misunderstanding in the heat of a battle, which is usually fatal. I tend to agree with Joe's explanation. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::The explanation is Fred's, actually, not mine. Anyway, in regards to the whole "Longshot" thing, we should really play the wait-and-see approach and see if it comes up again in a future episode. Frankly, I don't feel that comfortable in what Anders has to say, particularly since his mind's not in the game, not to mention his lack of experience in general. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Seelix seemed in the game. Spike's quite right, giving the callsign "Tally" to someone could cause a fatal error. Too bad that we don't know if Anders will be back in the cockpit soon. He seems to go onboard that other ship from rumors/spoilers, the Demetrius. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::And "Longshot" just seems to make sense, with him being a professional Pyramid player and all.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I think we should wait until we get some confirmation. However, interpreting "Tally" as callsign always seemed specious to me. It can be interpreted either way, but as said, it's already a term for an enemy sighting and identification, and makes sense to be seen that way in the scene. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Makes me think of a comedic spin-off possibility: Battlestar! "''Roger that, Roger. What's the vector, Victor? Request clearance, Clarence.''" :) -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 16:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Ooh! What luck! Was just rewatching some episodes for fun, because I'm a loser and episode 2x01 Scattered, shows Apollo using "tally" as pilot jargon. It happens when Apollo first sees the Cylon heavy raider.
::::::::::::Flyboy: What is that thing?
::::::::::::Apollo: I don't know, but whatever it is, it's bearing on Galactica. We gotta take it out.
::::::::::::Hotdog: Apollo, Hotdog defensive. Three right, five at two.
::::::::::::Apollo: Tally! Hotdog, Kat, on me.
:::::::::::Now that we know that "tally' is part of the acknowledged jargon of Battlestar, I don't think they would give any pilot that callsign. -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 11:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Good catch Yen! :D -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well, not to detract from his point, but we knew that all along. It's not just used in "Scattered". Its first appearance is probably "The Hand of God" -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::Yep, Hand of God, Scattered, and Maelstrom. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Ah, yes. But the last time I searched for "tally" on the wiki, the page with military jargon didn't come up. So boo on you! :P -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Hmm, it works now though. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Could have to do with our outsourcing searching to Google. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I really feel that Longshot is confirmed as Anders callsign by this scene. It's not vague, knowing how pilots speak. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

==Thrace's claims discussion==

Alpha Centauri's triple star system contains 1 star, Proxima Centauri, which is a 'flare star', capable of changing its luminosity in seconds (more akin to the flashing behaviour described by Starbuck). Another interesting factor is that the name of the constellation, Centaurus, refers to the half-man, half-horse mythological figure, which is also the figure represented by Saggitarus (the statue on the tomb of Athena on which the Arrow of Apollo was placed to reveal the path to Earth).
Although the triple stars of Alpha Centauri cannot be seen from Earth neither it is possible to see the rings of the outer solar system's planets. What seems more likely is that Starbuck saw both the rings and the triple star on her way back to the Ionian Nebula.

-- [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 16:38, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The original page formerly included a reference to the moon being "charcoal grey" from space, insinuating that the photos were inconsistent with observed reality. This is not the case, nor is her dialog incorrect.

This mistaken belief stems largely from ignorance of the true color of objects in our solar system. The moon is not, despite what we see in the sky, grey and white. It is a dull mix of browns, rusts, and yellows. It could easily be described as "yellow" when viewed from space and in partial illumination from the Sun. The moon has an albedo of 0.12 (in other words, it is a relatively ''dark'' body), and only appears in the highly desaturated shades we see it due to the intensity of sunlight reflecting off it. See this real-color image for a visual: [http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/chaissonat4/chapter1/medialib/image/g_earth_moon.jpeg].

Kara's comment was spot on. Also, our star is not really yellow--it is very close to 6500K white, but appears exaggeratedly yellow due to the same Rayleigh scattering that makes the sky blue.-- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 05:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:As you say, the moon is always seen brightly lit by the sun (or not lit at all) and an Astronaut in space would not observe a different colour from what we see on the ground. However, you also in your edit removed the note about the fact that the particular picture used in the show being, quite oddly, a partially eclipsed moon, with the lower half shaded and no sharp terminator. Any reason why you removed that note? It's a rather unusual choice by the graphics team to use a real or simulated partially eclipsed moon, it seems they had some goal in mind with that.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

::An astronaut in space would indeed see a different color from what we see on the ground. See the image linked in my earlier comment. Also poke around the NASA website for astronaut's reports from the moon landings. I believe it was Alan Shepard (maybe David Scott) who called it "mousy brown". As for the "partially eclipsed" moon, take a closer look at the screen cap. It's not being eclipsed, it appears to be an upside-down waning gibbous moon heading into the last quarter. The perspective appears off because the Moon orbits the ecliptic and the curvature of the earth is off-plumb in the picture. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 12:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Gotta say I disagree. I've seen and photographed many regular and eclipsed moons, and in a regular waning gibbous, the terminator is nowhere near that soft. And take a closer look, the curvature is the wrong way for the terminator and the right way for an umbra. I have no idea why they used an eclipsed moon here, but that's what we have. Show me a picture of a non-eclipsed moon, from space, that looks remotely like this.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::The curvature is deceptive, given that the screen cap shows a curved piece of paper with an off-plumb perspective. It tracks quite closely with this: [http://www.billionsandbillions.com/GibbousMoon.html], again, upside-down. In this cycle, from this orbital perspective, the moon is rising from behind the earth. It is not being eclipsed. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 09:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, I'm pretty skilled in astronomy and those two pictures look nothing alike to me. The normal moon picture has a sharp terminator. It's a quarter moon with linear terminator. In a gibbous moon, the terminator would be curved down in Starbuck's picture. Another thing wrong with the picture is the moon is less than 1/3 as bright as the Earth when viewed together, but I will leave that to photoshop. The lunar terminator is always sharp. Starbuck's photo has a gradual fade to orange, which is only seen in a partial lunar eclipse.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 16:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Update: I pasted together 4 moons -- Thrace's picture, your gibbous, a partial lunar and a total lunar. Her moon looks nothing like the gibbous, and most like the total but the brightness would be way off. The curvature of the terminator is the big clue. I have no idea why the graphics artists sourced a moon in eclipse for this photo, but they seem to have. [http://www.templetons.com/etc/galacticamoons.jpg Four Moons]--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 18:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::I disagree and think you are massively overanalyzing the image from the art department. First, you're locked into ground-based thinking. Desaturate a photo of the moon from space and the terminator softens. A true lunar eclipse has a distinct double-gradient, which the image lacks. Further, even if we accept the possibility that the art department intended the moon to be in eclipse instead of simply artistic license for a photograph with mere seconds of screen time, such eclipses occur 5 to 7 times per year. Without knowing the year, the significance of the moon's position/condition is low. The purpose of the photo is to identify with the audience--which it does, by approximating the configuration of the mare. It is interesting speculation, but is not notable for the main page.
--[[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 11:36, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

== [[w:Iron Man (film)|Iron Man]] special preview? ==

Worth noting or no? Since it's not really relevant to the episode itself but the airing thereof..--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 03:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
: Not really worth noting. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

== Galactica Damage ==

Could anyone sort out some screenshots of the the damage done to Galactica please? :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 08:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk:He That Believeth In Me/Archive 1

2008-07-23T09:53:06Z

Dharadvani:

== Citing issue ==

There is a problem with "Go Between, Inc.". Understandably they don't keep the data forever. Searching for "battlestar" now only yields results for "[[Six of One]]". The data for "[[Razor]]" and this episode is gone. So the cite is kinda pointless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:01, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
: Ran into something like this with [[New Caprican loco weed]] ... the Sci-Fi thread where some of the "Also known as" names came from disappeared. Maybe we should note in the cite "info no longer available"? [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 15:04, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
::Better to remove the cite if we can't back it up (and delete the article, if necessary). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:44, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Deleting the article because the cite isn't available anymore, would be an overreaction though. All other BSG sites still list this (even if we have more stringent citation standards). I'd prefer somehow indicating that the site isn't available anymore. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:25, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
: I agree with Serenity, but of course I'm an inclusionist. The data did exist. Perhaps there is a Google cache (or other website cache) of it still available. I notice the date it was retrieved is part of the cite, I think that is a good thing. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 07:21, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::If it's still in the Google cache, we could copy it to Sources:Go Between or something like that. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:52, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Keeping in mind we're not a news source, perhaps it would be better to make a ''screen capture'' of such information to make a permanent source copy on BS Media that cannot expire. The capture as well as the tenuous article sourcing can be removed later once we get more firm sourcing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:15, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::That would be feasible. Unless someone has a better idea, that might be the best. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:24, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Excellent idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

== Update ==

Mark Verheiden reports on his [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2007/08/bsg-update-next.html blog] that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson are writing this episode. I've updated the article accordingly. Also, he reports that officially the production numbers for Razor are 401 and 402, and Season 4, Episode 1 is going to be 403. --[[User:Freevo|Freevo]] 10:51, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:I don't think writers need to be cited, though we can add a footnote if anyone feels the need. I'll add the production number, though seeing this as episode 1 of Season 4 still makes sense. Production numbers can be very confusing. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:52, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
::Currently, [[400]] and [[4.00]] redirect to [[Razor]], and [[401]] and [[4.01]] redirect to [[He That Believeth In Me]], a system that I think is more logical than the production numbers. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:33, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:::Agreed. We just need to keep production and episode numbers apart. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

== Space Park Damaged etc ==

Er, sorry but wheres the citation to support this spoiler? The only thing i've seen that would represent this, is a fan made trailer circulated around youtube, which featured the Battlestars Titan and Hades...whilst well done, everything barring some leaked footage of starbuck, is done entirely on a home computer by the looks of it...so i say again, where did this spoiler appear from? --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 23:17, 31 January 2008 (CST)
: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkYvXmD94e0&feature=related Here]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:47, 1 February 2008 (CST)
::I dont like the way this season is going...i wasn't particularly enamoured with the whole 'final 5' story either...oh well, i guess they just ran out of steam :( --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 16:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)
:::Any one notice that [[Scylla]] was in the fleet towards the end of the battle.--[[User:CoreyDanian|Corey Danian]] 15 May 2008 11.23 pm (CST)

==SciFi ep?==
I am currently on the West Coast and it's 12:02pm, yet I cannot find anywhere on the SciFi website where the episode is streaming. It says it is there, but I don't see a link. Any ideas?[[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 19:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:It was 12pm EDT and 9am PST :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 19:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

==Callsigns==
Diana Seelix and Sam Anders' callsigns are mentioned as "Longshot" and "Hardball", I just can't figure out which is which. Anyone know what's what? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't recall hearing those callsigns, but Seelix has been confirmed as Hardball since as far back as October. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:: "Longshot" isn't Anders' callsign... He mixed up the callsigns when he was trying to cover [[Tally]]... The video for the entire episode is [[He That Believeth In Me/Watch|here]] if you want to check it out. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Oh. Now I've got that. The first two times I must have thought that "Tally" was jargon. He must have one, of course. Where does "Hotshot" come from? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 03:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Now someone entered that Athena called Anders "C-Buck" on his article. That can only happen during their scene on the hangar deck, but I don't hear anything like that. She says. "Hey rook. Stay cool out there, alright. You'll lock on/in and do what you've been trained to do. Come on." -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, I was listening out for callsigns and the like. I have never heard "C-Buck" once in the episode... The only time that "C-Bucks" ever come up is way back in "Exodus". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 14:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Wait, "tally" *is* pilot jargon. What makes us so sure that it's a callsign? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:I am still listen to the episode sound. I recorded that section so I can play it back over and over and I am trying to take out the ambient noise. I will let you know what I come up with. (This is what having a powerfull computer can do!) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because he clearly corrects himself after saying the first callsign... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::Ok. I have listened to it. After further review I hear "Longshot, '''Tally'''. I got your back". Directly afterwards I can hear crystal clear that Anders says "Selix, you got a raider on your back." So going back to how sub sections communicate, "Conn. Weapons. Estimated time to 1SQ is 15 mintues." (From Crimson Tide) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Here's what I heard of the wireless exchange between Seelix and Anders:
::::Seelix: Longshot, Hardball ... turkey right four low at three ... committing.
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the ... Tally! I've got your back.
:::IMO, the conversation goes
::::Seelix: Longshot (Anders), [this is] Hardball (Seelix) ... turkey (Cylon missile) right four low at three ... committing (engaging).
::::Anders: Longshot, I got the (he is either identifying himself, or winces because he realizes he just called Seelix by his own callsign and/or has trouble assembling proper fighter shorthand) ... Tally (I see your target)! I've got your back.
:::So I'd put my hat into Longshot being Anders's callsign. If there is indeed a third pilot with the callsign "Tally", you'd figure the pilot would have acknowledged over wireless.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 03:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, you've convinced me. Yeah, seems that "Longshot" is his callsign. Although, I would personally like more definitive proof before we proceed on that assumption, which shouldn't be a problem in the future episodes that are coming up. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Besides, what's the point in giving someone a callsign ("Tally") that is identical to the popular jargon word used by pilots every now and then? It could cause some serious misunderstanding in the heat of a battle, which is usually fatal. I tend to agree with Joe's explanation. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::The explanation is Fred's, actually, not mine. Anyway, in regards to the whole "Longshot" thing, we should really play the wait-and-see approach and see if it comes up again in a future episode. Frankly, I don't feel that comfortable in what Anders has to say, particularly since his mind's not in the game, not to mention his lack of experience in general. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Seelix seemed in the game. Spike's quite right, giving the callsign "Tally" to someone could cause a fatal error. Too bad that we don't know if Anders will be back in the cockpit soon. He seems to go onboard that other ship from rumors/spoilers, the Demetrius. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::And "Longshot" just seems to make sense, with him being a professional Pyramid player and all.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I think we should wait until we get some confirmation. However, interpreting "Tally" as callsign always seemed specious to me. It can be interpreted either way, but as said, it's already a term for an enemy sighting and identification, and makes sense to be seen that way in the scene. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Makes me think of a comedic spin-off possibility: Battlestar! "''Roger that, Roger. What's the vector, Victor? Request clearance, Clarence.''" :) -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 16:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Ooh! What luck! Was just rewatching some episodes for fun, because I'm a loser and episode 2x01 Scattered, shows Apollo using "tally" as pilot jargon. It happens when Apollo first sees the Cylon heavy raider.
::::::::::::Flyboy: What is that thing?
::::::::::::Apollo: I don't know, but whatever it is, it's bearing on Galactica. We gotta take it out.
::::::::::::Hotdog: Apollo, Hotdog defensive. Three right, five at two.
::::::::::::Apollo: Tally! Hotdog, Kat, on me.
:::::::::::Now that we know that "tally' is part of the acknowledged jargon of Battlestar, I don't think they would give any pilot that callsign. -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 11:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Good catch Yen! :D -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well, not to detract from his point, but we knew that all along. It's not just used in "Scattered". Its first appearance is probably "The Hand of God" -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::Yep, Hand of God, Scattered, and Maelstrom. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Ah, yes. But the last time I searched for "tally" on the wiki, the page with military jargon didn't come up. So boo on you! :P -- [[User:Yenguyen|Yenguyen]] 16:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Hmm, it works now though. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Could have to do with our outsourcing searching to Google. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I really feel that Longshot is confirmed as Anders callsign by this scene. It's not vague, knowing how pilots speak. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

==Thrace's claims discussion==

Alpha Centauri's triple star system contains 1 star, Proxima Centauri, which is a 'flare star', capable of changing its luminosity in seconds (more akin to the flashing behaviour described by Starbuck). Another interesting factor is that the name of the constellation, Centaurus, refers to the half-man, half-horse mythological figure, which is also the figure represented by Saggitarus (the statue on the tomb of Athena on which the Arrow of Apollo was placed to reveal the path to Earth).
Although the triple stars of Alpha Centauri cannot be seen from Earth neither it is possible to see the rings of the outer solar system's planets. What seems more likely is that Starbuck saw both the rings and the triple star on her way back to the Ionian Nebula.

-- [[User:Hobbes|Hobbes]] 16:38, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The original page formerly included a reference to the moon being "charcoal grey" from space, insinuating that the photos were inconsistent with observed reality. This is not the case, nor is her dialog incorrect.

This mistaken belief stems largely from ignorance of the true color of objects in our solar system. The moon is not, despite what we see in the sky, grey and white. It is a dull mix of browns, rusts, and yellows. It could easily be described as "yellow" when viewed from space and in partial illumination from the Sun. The moon has an albedo of 0.12 (in other words, it is a relatively ''dark'' body), and only appears in the highly desaturated shades we see it due to the intensity of sunlight reflecting off it. See this real-color image for a visual: [http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/chaissonat4/chapter1/medialib/image/g_earth_moon.jpeg].

Kara's comment was spot on. Also, our star is not really yellow--it is very close to 6500K white, but appears exaggeratedly yellow due to the same Rayleigh scattering that makes the sky blue.-- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 05:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

:As you say, the moon is always seen brightly lit by the sun (or not lit at all) and an Astronaut in space would not observe a different colour from what we see on the ground. However, you also in your edit removed the note about the fact that the particular picture used in the show being, quite oddly, a partially eclipsed moon, with the lower half shaded and no sharp terminator. Any reason why you removed that note? It's a rather unusual choice by the graphics team to use a real or simulated partially eclipsed moon, it seems they had some goal in mind with that.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

::An astronaut in space would indeed see a different color from what we see on the ground. See the image linked in my earlier comment. Also poke around the NASA website for astronaut's reports from the moon landings. I believe it was Alan Shepard (maybe David Scott) who called it "mousy brown". As for the "partially eclipsed" moon, take a closer look at the screen cap. It's not being eclipsed, it appears to be an upside-down waning gibbous moon heading into the last quarter. The perspective appears off because the Moon orbits the ecliptic and the curvature of the earth is off-plumb in the picture. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 12:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Gotta say I disagree. I've seen and photographed many regular and eclipsed moons, and in a regular waning gibbous, the terminator is nowhere near that soft. And take a closer look, the curvature is the wrong way for the terminator and the right way for an umbra. I have no idea why they used an eclipsed moon here, but that's what we have. Show me a picture of a non-eclipsed moon, from space, that looks remotely like this.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::::The curvature is deceptive, given that the screen cap shows a curved piece of paper with an off-plumb perspective. It tracks quite closely with this: [http://www.billionsandbillions.com/GibbousMoon.html], again, upside-down. In this cycle, from this orbital perspective, the moon is rising from behind the earth. It is not being eclipsed. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 09:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

== [[w:Iron Man (film)|Iron Man]] special preview? ==

Worth noting or no? Since it's not really relevant to the episode itself but the airing thereof..--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 03:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
: Not really worth noting. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

== Galactica Damage ==

Could anyone sort out some screenshots of the the damage done to Galactica please? :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 08:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk:He That Believeth In Me/Archive 1

2008-07-22T12:44:47Z

Dharadvani:

Talk:He That Believeth In Me/Archive 1

2008-07-21T05:49:30Z

Dharadvani:

Battlestar Wiki:Sandbox/He That Believeth in Me

2008-07-21T05:47:09Z

Dharadvani: Corrected the 'yellow moon' "inconsistency"

{{Episode Data
| image=4x01 - Promo 1.jpg
| title= He That Believeth In Me
| season= 4
| episode= 1
| forumthread= 729
| guests=
| extra= '''Season 4.0 Premiere'''
| writer= [[Bradley Thompson]] [[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| production=403
| rating= 1.6
| US airdate= 4 April 2008
| CAN airdate=4 April 2008
| UK airdate=15 April 2008
| dvd=
| population=39698
| oldpopulation=41399
| prev= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
| next= [[Six of One]]
| unbox=B00178W020
| frakr=He That Puteth In Me
}}

== Overview ==

: ''During a seemingly hopeless [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula|battle]], [[Kara Thrace]] appears in a pristine [[Viper Mark II|Viper]], claiming that she has been to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] and can lead the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] there -- but the terminal [[Laura Roslin]] believes otherwise. Meanwhile, four of the so-called [[Final Five]] are forced to tackle the repercussions of their newfound nature, while [[Gaius Baltar]] discovers he has a [[Cult of Baltar|commune of nubile female cultists]] who believe him to be an agent of the [[God (RDM)|"one true God"]]. ''

: '''''Note''': This is part one of a two-part episode. See the episode, "[[Six of One]]," for the conclusion.''

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

* [[Lee Adama]] and [[Kara Thrace]] are flying side-by-side, staring at each other across space. Lee is in a state of disbelief. Thrace rebukes his claim that her [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] [[Maelstrom#Act 4|exploded]]. She says that she's found Earth, describes some of its attributes, as the [[CIC]] crew listens to the chatter.
* [[William Adama]], who is clearly emotional, demands that the ship be identified. [[Felix Gaeta]] does so, replying that the ship's recognition codes match, while [[Anastasia Dualla]] tries to get Lee on the comline. [[Karl Agathon]] notes that the woman's voice sounds like Thrace's. [[Laura Roslin]], recovered from her [[Crossroads, Part II|earlier headache]], notes that it is likely a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] trick. Adama orders that the verification be duplicated, however Gaeta notes that more than 200 Cylon [[Raider (RDM)|Raider]]s are inbound. Adama orders that the Vipers and Raptor pickets engage the Cylons.
* Hearing the order, Thrace tells Lee not to lose her. "Not a chance," he replies, as both begin engaging the first wave of Raiders. Thrace kills a Raider, its blood covering her ship.
* [[Image:403 - Tigh scream, you scream, we all scream.jpg|thumb|[[Saul Tigh]] experiences a waking nightmare where he believes he shot [[William Adama]].]]Roslin reiterates her belief that Thrace's voice is a "Cylon trick". Gaeta reports that the Vipers have stopped the main Cylon thrust, but the reserves have broken through the line, and are headed to the Fleet. Adama tells [[Saul Tigh]] that he wants everything launched. Tigh hesitates, then experiences a vision where he pulls out a gun and shoots Adama in his right eye. However, he is awakened out of his waking-state "nightmare", as Adama continues to bark orders at him. He wants everyone who has "ever held a stick" up in the air. Unsure of what exactly happened, Tigh relays the order.
* [[Galen Tyrol]] is barking out orders on the [[hangar deck]]. Ensigns [[Diana Seelix]] and [[Samuel Anders]] arrive. En route to their ships, as Seelix goes off, Anders begins to vocally question whether or not he'll turn against "his own" after he launches. Tyrol tells him to "shut the [[frak]] up" and follow Tigh's lead: be the man he wants to be. During the pep-talk, [[Sharon Agathon]] approaches them, overhearing a snippet of the conversation. She asks who else would he be and then gives him advice to retain his cool out in the fray. She walks off to her Raptor; Anders is relieved that she didn't ferret him out, and hopes the other Cylons won't be able to either. Tyrol tells him to not give them the chance to find out, and tells Anders to get to his ship.
* [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Cult of Baltar|female admirers]], led by a woman named [[Jeanne]], escort Baltar through the ship, heading to a previously-abandoned compartment on the ship. En route, they pass by [[Charlie Connor]], who catches a glimpse of Baltar, even though Baltar is covered in a shawl.
* During the battle, a damaged Raider sprawls out of control and crashes into the ''[[Pyxis]]'', destroying the ship. Gaeta reports this and Roslin is shocked, saying that they've lost 600 souls, including Captain [[Tarney]]. Roslin then inquires as to how the Cylons were able to find them. Tigh and [[Tory Foster]] exchange glances [[Crossroads, Part II#Act 4|again]]. Gaeta reports that the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s have launched 50 plus missiles. Half are headed towards the Fleet, the other half are headed towards ''Galactica''. Adama believes that ''Galactica'' can take the beating, but the Fleet would be wiped out by such an attack; he orders that all the missiles headed towards the Fleet be shot down.
* Anders launches and, still fearing that he may have Cylon programming yet to be turned on, begins summarizing his life. Seelix replies that he's jamming up the wireless, since he has the transmit button pressed down. Anders release the button and chastises himself. Cylon warheads begin striking ''Galactica''. Two missiles headed toward the Fleet strike the ''[[Space Park]]'', damaging her. Seelix manages to destroy a warhead that would have struck ''[[Colonial One]]''. However, a Raider comes up from behind her and begins to pursue her. Anders comes up from behind the Raider, and attempts to take the Raider out, but his weapons have apparently seized. The Raider suddenly breaks off its attack on Seelix and confronts Anders. The Raider then performs some kind of scan on Anders using its red eye. Anders' iris in his right eye glows red and the Raider disengages. The Raiders flock back to the baseships, which spin their [[FTL]] drives, much to the confusion of the Colonials who know that the Cylons had them dead to rights.
* Adama orders that they take advantage of the opportunity they've been presented, ordering the fighters to cover their rear while the Fleet begins jump prep. Tigh asks why the Cylons withdrew, Foster replies that "maybe something's changed", referring to their newfound knowledge of being Cylons. Roslin asks what the "change" may be, but Tigh feigns ignorance.

=== Act 1 ===

* After the Fleet makes its first jump away from the Ionian Nebula, Baltar is being led to the women's enclave. [[Jeanne]] reassures him that he'll be safe as they approach a compartment previously dedicated to dry stowage. Connor and another male associate have followed the group to the compartment, but do not enter. In the compartment, Baltar enters a commune consisting mostly of young, nubile women and men, all primarily Caucasian. They look subserviently downward, unwilling to meet his gaze, until he comes across a shrine with glorified Christmas-lights. He merely looks around and mutters, "Right", in a state of semi-disbelief.
* Tyrol looks over Thrace's blood-covered, yet otherwise pristine Mark II Viper. As Thrace opens the cockpit, she tells Tyrol to develop her gun camera footage, claiming to have some great shots to show everyone. She asks for her post-flight checklist. Tyrol replies that she has none. Pilots who've landed start to approach Thrace and her Viper. Lee, who just landed, runs up and hugs her. From the walkway above the hangar bay, Tigh asks Adama if he believes in miracles. Adama replies in the negative. Anders follows Lee's suit, saying that he told everyone that she was too "frakking mean to kill". She notes Anders' apparel, learning that Anders has been trained as a Viper pilot, which she finds unbelievable. Thrace tells Adama that she found Earth. Adama replies with Marines, who are ordered to escort her to sickbay where [[Cottle]] will give her a complete examination. Thrace reveals that, from her point of view, she's been off the ship for six hours. Anders replies that it has been over two months since she died, which Lee confirms.
* [[Image:403 - God's presence.jpg|thumb|Baltar "feels" God's presence.]]In the commune, Jeanne tells Baltar that she's going to get her son, [[Derrick]], asking him not to go anywhere on the ship, since it isn't safe for him. Jeanne tells him that [[Tracey Anne]] will be with him to give him whatever he needs. Baltar claims that he's praying for Derrick, who is presently in ''Galactica's'' sickbay. When he asks about travel arrangements, Jeanne notes that security is too tight to smuggle him off ''Galactica''. Her fellow cultist, [[Paulla Schaffer]], adds that none of the other ships would have him. As they leave, [[Virtual Six]] in a red blouse appears to him. She asks why he is glum, given that he faced execution, yet was granted life. He replies that he's doomed to be stuck in a looney bin with a bunch of cultists. Virtual Six assures him that she hasn't brought him this far for nothing, then he begins to ask for a ray of hope for the future... Tracey Anne sees Baltar on his knees, appearing to pray. She finds the way he prays beautiful, not just some hollow ritual. She tells him that when she prays, she feels empty. Prompted by Six, Baltar claims that the Gods they worship are false and that there is only one true God, all the while she's copping a feel on him. As he explains how the gods were propagated by the "ruling elite" to suppress their knowledge of "the truth", she unbuttons his shirt. As he reveals that "there's only one God", Tracey Anne exposes her breasts to him. Assured that they are alone and the door is locked, she moves his hands to cup her breasts, where Tracey Anne asks him if he feels God's presence. "You know what," he replies glibly, "I think I do." Then they fornicate in the presence of the shrine.
* In Adama's quarters, Thrace is told that all her tests check out, and it appears she is human. She accuses them of thinking that she's a Cylon. Roslin, who is present with Tory Foster and Lee Adama, presses her for her story of how she found Earth. Thrace claims that she followed a [[Heavy Raider]] into the storm, taking some fire, then blacked out. When she came to, she was orbiting Earth, which she was able to identify from the descriptions in the [[Book of Pythia]]. Showing the pictures that were developed from her gun camera, she claims that the pictures are of Earth and her moon. Further, she claims to have been able to match the star configurations from what was seen in the [[Tomb of Athena]]. Thrace claims that she doesn't know how she was able to find them at the Ionian Nebula. Roslin continues to press her for information. She replies that she turned the ship to a reciprocal heading, and later blacked out. She adds that she remembers a giant gas planet with rings. She also claims to have seen a comet. Roslin moves to questioning the time discrepancy. Thrace remains adamant that she found Earth, took the pictures, and was able to return to the Fleet.
* In the hangar bay, Tyrol shows Adama (who is accompanied by Roslin, Foster, Lee, and Tigh) the Viper Thrace returned in. He notes that, after it was cleaned up, the Viper is pristine, as if it came off the "showroom floor". Tyrol confirms that while the tail numbers match the one she flew out on, the ship is not the same one he's been repairing for years. Further, the navigational computer has no entries in it. Roslin tells Adama to put Thrace in the brig. Lee objects, asking about Cottle's test. Tigh grumpily replies that Cottle's test doesn't mean a thing, and also that Baltar's [[Cylon detector]] is a crock that failed to identify [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]. <ref>Despite Tigh mentioning the Cylon detector, dialogue only states that Doctor Cottle compared Thrace's DNA with the one on record in her files (the same procedure he used with [[Bulldog]] in "[[Hero]]"). Baltar's Cylon detector, however, uses a more complex molecular analysis to generate a result.</ref> Adama ruefully notes that they're back at square one. Any one of them can be a Cylon, and they wouldn't know it until they had a bullet in their heads, or led the Fleet into an ambush. Roslin notes that something stopped the Cylons from destroying the Fleet, and she believes that Thrace is somehow responsible for it. Further, Roslin believes that Thrace was returned to them to pull them off their course. Lee notes that they don't have a course, since they weren't able to stay at the nebula. He posits that Thrace may very well be the "signpost" they've been looking for, but Roslin will have none of it.

=== Act 2 ===

* Baltar and Tracey Anne, both unclothed, are awakened by the presence of Jeanne and the cultists. Jeanne brings Derrick, who is ill with viral encephalitis and cannot be treated with medicines, and asks Baltar to pray for his recovery. Baltar says that Derrick has to be strong, and they have to be strong for him. Jeanne says that she didn't want Derrick to die in the [[sickbay]]. Baltar reiterates his claim that he prays for Derrick. Jeanne claims to know this, but adds that she believes that the "one true God" doesn't want Derrick to live. A wide-eyed, nutty Baltar cannot answer this question.
* In Tigh's quarters, the "[[frakr:Fantastic Four|Final Four]]" are assembled. Tigh inquires about the "[[The Music|frakking music]]", and everyone replies that they no longer hear it. Tyrol posits that it may have stopped upon discovering their true natures, but they still don't know for certain what it was. Anders recites his experience with the Cylon Raider scanning him. Even after Anders recalls the tale, they don't know what to make of the Cylons' sudden retreat, or Ander's inability to fire on the Raider. Tigh remains adamant that [[Racetrack]] was right: Anders had made a "dumb nugget mistake" by leaving the weapon safeties on. They broach the topic of being programmed to sabotage the Fleet, like [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]. Tigh vociferously contends that Boomer did not know who she was; they do, and they silently agree to kill themselves before they do anything against the humans.
* Roslin visits [[Caprica Six]] in the brig. Roslin discusses the shared dream they experienced in the [[Opera House]], where Caprica saw more than she did. Roslin asks Caprica to help her with information regarding the Cylons known as the Final Five, since she wants to know if Kara Thrace is one of them. Caprica replies that they are programmed not to think of the Five, but notes that they are close since she can feel them.
* [[Image:Thrace's headache.jpg|thumb|Thrace experiences a headache...]]In the CIC, Thrace is reviewing star charts with Gaeta, who is clearly aggravated. Agathon notices Gaeta's behavior and relieves him. Thrace notes that no one believes her, since everyone seems to think she's a Cylon. In a conversation that begins to get heated, Adama overhears Thrace's reasoning that finding the star systems on their charts won't work. Thrace tells them that she can find the way to Earth by feeling it. She says that the more jumps they do away from their starting point (the Ionian Nebula), the harder it is for her to tell the road to Earth, given that they are going the wrong way. Adama dismisses Agathon. Adama reveals that Roslin's adamant that they continue the course laid before them by the [[Eye of Jupiter]]. As they execute another FTL jump, Thrace experiences a headache and says they're going the wrong way, and fears she may lose the feeling completely. She asks for them to go back to the nebula and while Adama would like to believe her, he can't go to Roslin and ask her to dismiss the writings of Pythia and the information derived from the supernova. Adama reveals that he's just "left her ship", noting that it is pristine, and asks her to explain that fact. She cannot, but swears to the Gods that she ''is'' Kara Thrace and that he can trust her on her intuition. Adama painfully replies that he can't afford to trust her, and she leaves with her marine escort.

=== Act 3 ===

* [[Image:Yet another frakking Adama talk.jpg|thumb|The Adamas reconcile... a tad.]]Lee and William Adama are watching Lee's gun camera footage of Thrace's death near the mandala. The elder Adama asks whether he should believe his heart or his eyes. Lee replies that he shares the same state of mind. Adama says he wants to believe Thrace, but notes that Roslin's right, and that the Cylons may be counting on Adama's belief. He adds that they'll follow Roslin's lead for the time being. Lee asks if Roslin's still staying in his father's quarters. Adama replies in the positive, noting that this is temporary until they can find quarters where she can wait for the remaining [[diloxin]] treatments. Adama thanks Lee for suiting up during the fight. As an unspoken apology for an earlier heated discussion about Lee's integrity, Adama offers Lee his wings back. However, Lee notes that while he removed those for the wrong reasons, he's had feelers from the government, who have offered him a chance to do more than he ever could do in the cockpit. He feels that Baltar's trial was a "trigger", but he notes that he needs a change and move on. After an uncomfortable, solemn silence, Lee asks what would have happened had [[Zak Adama|Zak]] had been in the cockpit, and it was revealed that he were a Cylon, and always had been. He asks if they would still love him, but Adama does not answer the question.
* At the commune, Baltar watches over Derrick as Jeanne and the others sleep. He then makes a decision to leave, but before he does so, he returns and prays over Derrick. Baltar asks why God should choose to take an innocent life instead of his own, because he's failed so many people and brought so much grief on the human race, yet the boy has done nothing to sin against God. As he prays, the women wake up and stare at him. Jeanne also awakens and begins to cry softly, clearly touched by this display. After Baltar is done, he looks around and walks away.
* Later on, Baltar and Schaffer walk through ''Galactica'''s oddly empty corridors heading towards the officer's head. During the conversation, she says that they were all moved by Baltar's prayer. Baltar ruefully notes that it did no good, as Derrick's sickness has become worse. Schaffer tells Baltar that the prayer helped ensure that God looks after his immortal soul, which Baltar glibly snaps at. Baltar tells Schaffer that they shouldn't look at him for guidance, implying that they are young and easily misguided. Baltar inquires as to what they're doing in the head, in reply to which, she snaps out a straight razor which he uses to shave his beard. After he is fully shaven, Charlie Connor enters. He appears very cordial towards Baltar, addressing him as "Mister President", and despite Schaffer's urging, Baltar strikes up a conversation with Connor. Connor reveals that they met at [[Founders' Day]] on [[New Caprica]], where Baltar also met Kevin (his son) who told Baltar that he wanted to be president when he grew up. Baltar then asks after Kevin. Connor reveals that Kevin died at the hands of the [[New Caprica Police]] during the Cylon occupation. Schaffer heads towards the hatch, only to be restrained by an associate of Connor's (possibly [[Shaunt]]). As she's being restrained, Connor assaults Baltar and places the razor Baltar used to Baltar's throat. Connor orders Baltar to look at him; Baltar does so, wide-eyed.

=== Act 4 ===

[[Image:Connor attacks Baltar.jpg|thumb||right|[[Charlie Connor]] attacks [[Gaius Baltar]].]]
*Connor demands that Baltar scream. He wants to know if anyone would come after him. Meanwhile, Shaunt begins choking Schaffer to death. Baltar is brought to his knees. When Connor starts cutting into his throat, Virtual Six arises and asks if he was sincere in his prayer. He replies to Six that he is sincere, and begs that his life be taken. Connor is flummoxed at this. Schaffer manages to break free from Shaunt and breaks off a handle from a nearby floor washing bucket. She beats Shaunt with it, incapacitating him, then saves Baltar. She continues to beat Connor until Baltar stops her.
* En route to the commune, an exhilarated Schaffer says that she knew God wouldn't abandon Baltar and that she had felt his love course through her, giving her the power to smite his attackers. He ruefully retorts that there'd be less fighting next time, unless she wants to be brought up on murder charges.
* Baltar enters the enclave to discover that Derrick has fully recovered from his encephalitis. As the cultists look on at him, Six appears with a smirk on her face.
[[Image:Thrace and her gun.jpg|thumb||right|Thrace points a gun at Laura Roslin.]]
*In the [[memorial hallway]], Thrace notes to Anders that no one has removed her picture from the wall. Anders tells her to cut Adama and everyone some slack, since they are trying to figure out what happened to her. She tells Anders that she figured her experience of finding Earth was a dream. She begins theorizing about the logistics of her return aloud, speculating that the Cylons may have pulled her out of the soup and brainwashed her, or managed to clone her from parts that were extracted from her during her time in the Cylon baby [[farms]]. Anders disputes this, saying that if she were a Cylon, she's been one from the beginning. He professes his undying love for her, even if she may be a Cylon. She replies that he's more forgiving that she'd ever be, noting that if Anders were a Cylon, she'd kill him. After another jump, Thrace experiences another headache. She insists that the Fleet's going the wrong way. She claims that if she goes through one more jump, she'll lose the way. Anders offers her a bunk, but Thrace begins to believe that the only way to stop going the wrong way is to deal with Roslin. She incapacitates [[Brandy Harder|Harder]], while Anders knocks [[Nowart]]'s gun aside before he can fire it. Thrace incapacitates Nowart as well. Anders asks what the hell she's doing. She asks where Roslin is, but Anders refuses to answer, so she knocks him out. Thrace takes out the marines guarding Adama's quarters, using a stun grenade<ref>Also known as a "flash bang", see the [[w:Grenade#Stun grenades|Wikipedia article about it]]</ref>. Roslin, who is sleeping in Adama's bunk, awakens to find Thrace approaching her. As Roslin stands, Thrace aims a gun at her head.

== Notes ==

=== General ===

* This season shows the first major change in the teaser titles since the series began. Instead of the "Cylons have a Plan" claim, the new titles show: "Twelve Cylon models. Seven are known. Four live in secret. One will be revealed."
* The gun Saul Tigh uses in his "nightmare" against [[William Adama]] is the same weapon that [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] shot Adama with in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
* The [[FTL]] jump at the end of the episode is an abbreviated version of the [[w:Vertigo zoom|Vertigo zoom]] effect, which has not been seen since the [[Miniseries]].
* The title is a reference to John 11:25-26, which says:
*: Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: '''he that believeth in me''', though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (King James Bible)
* In Baltar's conversation with [[Tracey Anne]], he reveals the name of one more of the [[Lords of Kobol (RDM)|Gods]], [[Poseidon]], a God in the Greek pantheon.

=== Characters ===

* While Anders played for a professional Caprican [[pyramid]] team, he was (allegedly) born on [[Picon (RDM)|Picon]] and enrolled in [[Noyce Elementary School]].
* Like everyone else, Tigh is unaware that the Cylon detector correctly identified Boomer as a Cylon, and that Baltar reprogrammed the detector to give only negative test results ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]").

=== Fleet ===
* The [[survivor count|population]] of the Fleet, which hasn't been revealed since "[[The Son Also Rises]]" (but is assumed to be around 41,398) is 39,698. 600 of those were people who died aboard the ''Pyxis'', the other 1,101 likely died on other ships during the attack. The survivor count also takes into account the return of Kara Thrace.
* The number of people killed, 1701, is a nod to the registry number of the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Enterprise|Enterprise]]'' from the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek|Star Trek]]'' series. The number is seen again in "[[The Ties That Bind]]" on a [[weapons locker]] where the "[[Final Five|Fantastic Four]]" meet.
* As revealed in this episode's [[Podcast:He That Believeth In Me|podcast]], the ''[[Space Park]]'' is not destroyed during the battle per [[Ron D. Moore]]'s request.

=== Production ===

*The title was first reported as "He That Believath In Me". Writer [[User:Ngarenn|Bradley Thompson]] [[BW:OC#Season 4 First Episode Title|confirmed]] that this was an unintentional misspelling.
* "He That Believeth In Me" and "[[Six of One]]" aired back-to-back as a two hour TV event in UK.
* As with Season 3's season opener, the length of this episode's teaser clocks near the 10 minute mark.
* [[Katee Sackhoff]] has been re-added to the opening credit roll, since her "stunt" removal in the episodes "[[The Son Also Rises]]" and the "[[Crossroads]]" two-parter. (Although she was credited in the end-credits for "[[Crossroads, Part II]]".)

=== Gaffes ===

* The stills from Thrace's gun camera footage incorrectly show ''Galactica'' as belonging to Battlestar Group 62. Given that ''Pegasus'' was in BSG 62, the production staff likely modified and re-used a graphic template from an earlier episode, but the incorrect number slipped past them.
* When Thrace's Viper appears at the end of "[[Crossroads, Part II]]", the pilot-callsign stencils below the cockpit are missing, but they are shown at the beginning of this episode and all subsequent shots.
* Moreover, in promotional photos for this episode, the tail number of Thrace's Viper is [[Viper 4267|4267 NC]], the same Viper that [[Chuckles]] used and died in during the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]". This number was digitally removed in the aired version to match the Viper that was destroyed in "Maelstrom": [[Viper 8757]].

== Analysis ==

=== Gaius Baltar and his cult ===

* Baltar's cult is a cult-of-personality, where Gaius Baltar is seen by some humans as a messianic, mortal savior, in a parallel to the Cylon [[Hybrid]]'s designation of Baltar as "the chosen one". Further, no reason for this apparently sudden rise of the "Baltar cult" has yet been provided.
* While Baltar's appearance during Season 3 increasingly resembled that the classic image of Jesus Christ as bearded and long-haired, his messianic cult has him shave and cut his hair to shed this image. However, Baltar's new willingness to sacrifice himself for others has made him more of a Christ figure in action, even as he becomes less of one in appearance.
* Baltar's cult seems to have amassed a following comprising mostly of women who are Caucasian, well-fit, reasonably well-proportioned, and within the ages of 20 to 40. Further, the cult seems to be disturbingly similar to the "Manson Family" in this regard, although Baltar is more-or-less placed in the position as cult's spiritual leader.
* The cult is also hedonistic, verging on counter-cultural (the class-warfare against the Fleet's so-called "aristocracy"), cooperative, and religious. Apparently, the room is shared by all, and sexual intercourse with one another is implied as being common, as the cultists do not appear surprised that Baltar and [[Tracey Anne]] have engaged in intercourse.

===Baltar's Virtual Six===

* Baltar's [[Virtual Six]] seems to have reached an understanding about his sexual liaisons with other women. Where she once seemed jealous and hurt (as in "[[Colonial Day]]", despite professing that he could have sex with whoever he wanted because his heart belonged to her), she now seems much more at ease and even encouraging of his sexual liaison with Tracey Anne.
* Her wardrobe, however, has also undergone a change: where she formerly appeared almost exclusively in either a revealing red dress or in a swimsuit (during Baltar's visions of the two of them at his now-destroyed home on Caprica), in this episode she appears exclusively in a professional-looking suit of the same bright-red color as her old dress. Could this signify a change in how she perceives her relationship with Baltar? Although she has obviously harbored romantic feelings for him in the past, it is possible that she now perceives her role in a more professional and detached manner, and is choosing to put aside her own feelings in favor of guiding him down the path that God has laid out for him.

=== Ionian Nebula ===

* The Fleet-wide power-loss, and subsequent power recovery, remains unexplained.
* It is heavily implied that the Cylons now know that the Final Five are in the Fleet, given their rapid withdrawal during the battle.
* Further, it remains unexplained how the Cylons were able to track the Fleet to the nebula. They were either able to determine the Fleet's projected course, despite the efforts to use the ''Daru Mozu'' as a decoy, or found another way to track the Fleet.
* The battle within the nebula demonstrates that ''Galactica'' remains combat ready and able to engage Cylon basestars with all her weapons despite the damage suffered during the [[Battle of New Caprica]]. A visual effects shot of the warship following the battle shows one dorsal primary [[Battery|gun battery]] has been lost, likely during the impact that forces the crew in CIC to brace themselves. The port side water tank may also be destroyed, as there seem to be a large hole in the port side of the hull and the adjacent "ribs" are bent or destroyed.
*Despite Racetrack's claim in "[[Torn]]" that ''Galactica'' has more trained pilots than ships as result of the combination of the crews of both battlestars, this episode shows Admiral Adama pressing nuggets into action in order to have as many Vipers flying as possible. This suggests either Racetrack was exaggerating or speaking only about Raptor pilots; or that ''Galactica's'' Viper compliment is now very large after also taking in ''Pegasus'''s existing and newly-constructed Vipers.
* The battle marks the first overt Cylon attack on the civilian fleet since before the settling of New Caprica, where the Cylons indicated they no longer wished to wipe out the Colonials.

=== Kara Thrace ===

* As to be expected, Kara Thrace's return is clouded in suspicion. Given the effects of time dilation she had experienced (six hours from her perspective, more than two months from the Fleet's), she may have experienced a form [[w:gravitational time dilation|gravitational time dilation]], given her proximity to the mandala phenomenon in "[[Maelstrom]]" and the hard deck.
* The "missing time" phenomenon and the lack of navigation data in the Viper's computer are similar to the [[w:Abduction phenomenon|abduction experiences]] that have been reported. Coincidentally, these experiences allege paralysis and "blinding light." Kara Thrace experienced the blinding light phenomenon in "Maelstrom" before her death, and her lack of control in pulling up her Viper from the hard deck does suggest a form of paralysis, or even distraction, whereby her mind was occupied and thus ignored the warnings from Lee Adama, et al.
* Her apparently strange trip through time and space may suggest a possible wormhole or spacial anomaly. If so, the inability of Adama, Roslin, and others to seriously consider this possibility again highlights the [[naturalistic science fiction]] aspect of the series (though the absence of Dr. Baltar's scientific expertise may also be a factor). Wormholes would be a phenomenon known to the Colonials, as Adama mentions them in "[[Sacrifice]]".
* Thrace has feelings of [[w:theophany|theophany]] before her death in "Maelstrom". Further, these feelings have somehow influenced her and manifested extra-sensory abilities that leads her to a [[w:Jeanne d'Arc|Jeanne d'Arc]]-ian crusade, believing that she can lead the Fleet to Earth.
* Thrace's headaches are likely similar in nature to [[Laura Roslin]]'s headache in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]" after arriving at the [[Ionian Nebula]]. After a jump is executed, Thrace experiences these headaches as well, however the headaches lead her to believe that they are further and further down the wrong path and away from Earth.

=== Thrace's claims ===

[[Image:Kara Thrace Reconnaissance Photos.png|250px|thumb|right|Gun camera footage of [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]]]

* When speaking of her claim about [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], Thrace mentions the moon being "yellow" matching the description of Pythia. Earth's moon, when viewed from space, is a dull, pale yellowish brown. Her photo, taken from above the atmosphere, shows a slightly yellowish moon over a grayish planet with white flecks. However, the photographs are very desaturated - to the point of being black and white - and very likely don't represent the true colors.
* While initially believed that Thrace's "giant gas planet with rings" was any of the four [[w:Gas giant|Jovian]] planets ([[w:Jupiter|Jupiter]] or [[w:Saturn|Saturn]], notably), this is [[Faith|later disproved]].

=== The Final Five ===

* Given their animal-like nature, the biological Cylon Raiders are able to identify members of the Final Five, as [[Samuel Anders]] experiences during the Battle of the Ionian Nebula.
* Sharon Agathon and Caprica Six are incapable of identifying the Final Five models, even after they've been "activated", to use the term loosely.
* The episode does not delve too deeply into [[Tory Foster]] or [[Galen Tyrol]]'s reactions to their newfound natures, however this will doubtless be the case in future episodes. The episode centers around [[Saul Tigh]], who has become the ''de facto'' leader of the "Final Four", and [[Samuel Anders]].
* Saul Tigh begins to have nightmares in his waking state. He envisions pulling out a gun and killing Adama, harkening back to [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]]'s assassination attempt in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]". In his nightmare, he shoots Adama in the right eye, the same eye Tigh lost during his torture on [[New Caprica]].

==== Samuel Anders ====

[[Image:Ander's red eye.jpg|thumb|Anders's eye responding to a Raider's IFF.]]

* During the battle, Anders maneuvers behind a Cylon Raider on Seelix's six, but fails to fire his guns. The Cylon Raider seems to sense something different about the chasing Viper and turns around to face it. The Raider's forward lid lowers to reveal its scanning red eye, reminiscent of when Raiders accessed the backdoor in Baltar's [[Command Navigation Program]] in the [[Miniseries]]. Its eye locks straight ahead at Anders, and after a moment Ander's right iris faintly flashes red in response to the Raider's [[IFF]] transponder. The Raider then raises its lid and breaks off, broadcasting its discovery to the rest of the attacking Cylon fleet, which disengages and retreats.
* There is no indication that Anders's inability to fire on the Cylon Raider is because of any technical problem with the Viper. His safeties remain engaged during the battle, which is figured to be one of two things in the episode: what [[Margaret Edmondson]] and Tigh chalk up as a "dumb [[nugget]] mistake", or what Anders suspects is subconscious Cylon programming.

=== Comparisons to the Original Series ===

* The episode shares many of the same concepts in common from the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], particularly the mythology laid down in the Original Series's two-parter "[[War of the Gods]]". In that episode, it is revealed that there are greater forces at work in the universe: Count [[Iblis]], who is insinuated to have started the [[Thousand Yahren War]] that resulted in the [[Battle of Cimtar|Colonies' destruction]], and the "forces of good", the [[Beings of Light]] who [[Adama (TOS)|Adama]] describes as being "guardians of the universe".
** Essentially, in "[[War of the Gods, Part II]]", [[Apollo (TOS)|Apollo]] is killed by a bolt that Iblis meant for [[Sheba]]. After the encounter, Iblis is captured by the Beings of Light, as are Starbuck and Sheba, who leave the [[red planet]] with Apollo's cadaver in their [[Colonial Shuttle (TOS)|shuttle]]. Much like [[Kara Thrace]], Apollo comes back from the dead. While Thrace's resurrection has yet been explained—this being one of the mysteries that drives the current season—Apollo is restored by the Beings of Light.
** Further, like Thrace, the three Warriors of the Original Series experience lost time, memory loss, and feelings of theophany. Additionally, they are given the coordinates to [[Earth (TOS)|Earth]], which are buried in their subconscious only to be awakened by a suggestion Adama makes to the three Warriors. On the other hand, Kara Thrace is given (allegedly) a feeling of extra-sensory perception, being able to "feel" her way to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].
* It should also be noted that the Beings of Light in the Original Series are capable of moving ships to different locations. In "[[Experiment in Terra]]", this is done to Apollo's ship as they move him well ahead of a patrol from ''[[Galactica (TOS)|Galactica]]''. Blackouts and memory loss (such as those apparently exhibited by Thrace) also demonstrated in the Original Series's abduction and subsequent encounters with the Beings of Light.
* A potential abduction of Starbuck could relate to the Ship of Lights from the Original Series. These advanced humans evolved to state where they appear to be gods to the Colonials. Likewise, Count Iblis is their satanic counterpart who tries to seduce the Colonial fleet into submission, however, he can't triumph over these benevolent beings of "light," much the same way Lucifer cannot triumph over God in Christian traditions. To extrapolate the analogy further, the Final Five may be members of a benevolent, evolved line of humans who are watching over the Fleet, whereas the Significant Seven represent Count Iblis and the Devil.

== Questions ==

* Did [[Samuel Anders]] make a "dumb [[nugget]] mistake" as Tigh contends, or was it some form of programing that asserted itself?
* Does [[Charlie Connor]] survive the massive beating he experiences at the hands of [[Paulla Schaffer]]?
* Is Kara Thrace the final Cylon? ([[Revelations|Possible answer]])
* Where did Thrace get her pristine Viper?
* Are Thrace's claims about being to Earth true? ([[Revelations|Answer]])
* Why is the Viper's camera footage viable, yet nothing is found in the navigational records?
* Why have the Significant Seven Cylons been programmed to not think of the Final Five?
* Can the Significant Seven identify the Final Five once they are able to bypass this imperative? ([[Revelations|Possible answer]])
* Could the gun camera footage from Anders's Viper be used to expose him?
* Was Tigh or Tyrol ever tested by Baltar's Cylon detector before the apparent failure of Boomer's test made the Colonials decide it was useless?
* Would the test identify a Final Five Cylon? Would there be a difference before and after "activation"?
* How did the Cylon fleet locate the Colonial fleet in the Ionian Nebula?

== Official Statements ==

* ''Information from [[Ron Moore]]'s [[Podcast:He That Believeth In Me|podcast]]:''
** A scene was cut where either Anders himself or another crew member cuts off the cast of his leg, thus partially explaining the absence of the leg injury he sustained at the end of Season 3.
** Moore insisted that the ''[[Space Park]]'' (which he just calls "the ring ship") not be destroyed, but only damaged, because he likes it very much.
** The rooms used by Baltar's cult are referred to as "Baltar's lair" by the writers.
** Moore says that Thrace's pristine Viper will play an important role later in the season.
** The writers are aware of Baltar's visual similarity to Jesus. While Moore admits that it helps to drive some things home, he points out that Baltar is not Jesus.

* ''[[Aaron Douglas]] (via [[w:Anthrax|Anthrax]]'s [[w:Scott Ian|Scott Ian]]) explains an ad-lib that was dropped from one of Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]'s scenes:''
:"I had the best adlib ever in the scene where Chief walks onto the hangar deck yelling for the [[nugget]]s. It didn't make it into the show. What did make it was something like “lets go nuggets! your momma's aren't going to save ya today” it is all adlib'd but one take I said, & this is pure gold, “drop your dicks and grab your sticks!” 5 seconds later [[Harvey Frand|Harvey [Frand]]] (producer) says from video village, “you can't say dicks on TV”. We had to do it again. Ha." <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://blogs.scifi.com/battlestar/scottian/2008/04/drop-your-dicks-and-grab-your.html|title=SCIFI.com - Scott Ian's Blog: Drop your dicks and grab your sticks!!|date=7 April 2008|accessdate=7 April 2008|last=Ian|first=Scott|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

* ''[[Saul Tigh]] experiences a disturbing daydream:''
: '''[[William Adama]]:''' Saul. Saul! What the hell is wrong with you?
: '''Saul Tigh:''' Nothing, Bill. (Tigh pulls out a gun and aims it at Adama.) I've never felt better in my entire life. (Tigh shoots Adama through his right eye.)

* ''[[Galen Tyrol]] barks out orders:''
: '''Galen Tyrol:''' Get that [[Showboat]] bird in the tube. Where the [[frak]] are these [[nugget]]s? '''C'mon! Momma's not gonna save ya today! Let's go!''' You want to fly or not?

* ''[[Virtual Six]] talks to [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]]:''
: '''Virtual Six:''' Yesterday you were facing execution. Today, you're free. Why the long face?
: '''Baltar:''' Oh, gee, I don't know. From President of the Colonies to this... King of fools. Probably best to be hated by everyone than loved by this lot, doomed to live out the rest of my life in this looney bin. I don't know, that might have something to do with my rather savage mood swings.
: '''Virtual Six:''' Relax Gaius. Do you think I've brought you this far to let it end here?
: '''Baltar:''' I need encouragement. A ray of hope about the future. An inkling.
: '''Virtual Six:''' You've got me. I'm here for you.

* ''Lee Adama asks his father an uncomfortable set of questions:''
: '''Lee Adama:''' Dad, what if [[Zak Adama|Zak]] had come back to us in that Viper? If my brother had climbed out of that cockpit, would it matter if he were a Cylon? If he always had been? When all said and done, would that really change how we feel about him?

* ''Baltar's prayer for [[Derrick]]:''
: '''Gaius Baltar:''' Please God, I'm asking you this one last time, don't let this child die. Has he sinned against you? He can't have sinned against you. He's not even had a life yet. How can you take him and let me live... after all I've done? Really, if you want someone to suffer, take me. We both know I deserve it. I'm selfish and weak. I have failed so many people. I have killed. I'm not asking for your forgiveness, I'm just asking that you spare the life of this innocent child. Don't take him. Take me. Take me, take me, please.

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon| Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Michael Trucco]] as Ensign [[Samuel Anders]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as Lieutenant [[Anastasia Dualla]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Colin Corrigan]] as [[Nowart]]
* [[Lukas Pummell]] as [[Derrick]]
* [[Ryan Robbins]] as [[Charlie Connor]]
* [[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as [[Jeanne]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edomondson]]
* [[Jennifer Halley]] as Ensign [[Diana Seelix|Diana "Hardball" Seelix]]
* [[Shaun Omaid]] as [[Shaunt]]
* [[Leela Savasta]] as [[Tracey Anne]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Heather Doerksen]] as Sergeant [[Brandy Harder]] (credited as "Marine #2")

== External Link ==

*Composer [[Bear McCreary]] discusses the episode's score: http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=241#more-241

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

{{wikifrakr|He That Puteth In Me}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:He That Believeth In Me]]
[[zh:信我者他]]

Talk:Earth (RDM)/Archive 1

2008-07-21T05:35:45Z

Dharadvani:

== Earth uninhabited/primitve/catastrophe?? ==

Everyone has still the amazing finale of Season 3 in mind. We were able to take a look at the Earth of BSG RDM. Although, we could see the familiar blue planet for a few seconds only, it was enough to determine one fact: There were no major cities visible from orbit, nor any other signs indicating that earth is actually inhabited with a highly advanced civilization. This leads to the question what happend to the thirteenth tribe? Were they wiped out? Are they much more primitive than their 12 brothers? Or something completely different? In my opinion I believe that Earth is the true origin of mankind and that the remaining citizens of the planet have developed in the 4000 years since the exodus to such advanced and godlike beings (maybe comparable to the beings of Stargate, the ancients) that they no longer need to live in high-tech cities, but travel through the universe with their powers. I mean, look at the episode Maelstrom. I think an earth human took the role of Leoben to prepare Kara for their "life and death experience". If they are able to communicate with humans in dreams, pull viper pilots to earth in a maelstrom and even reverse the death of Kara Thrace than the earth humans must be extremely powerful beings! {{unsigned|Cortes}}

:I sure hope that it's uninhabited - but perhaps habitable again - and that it's the true origin of mankind. It still wouldn't explain the close technological and cultural similarities after thousands of years, but everything else would pretty much destroy the show in my eyes. Especially if it were an advanced society. This just isn't the type of show to either have incorporeal beings or have a story resolved by magical new technology. An alternative would be a complete parallel universe, where humans didn't develop on Earth. But that whole Earth thing has never been a favorite of mine anyways and is beginning to take up way too much screen time. I never felt that the show was ''about'' the search for Earth and liked it when that story went on in the background.

:Also, please sign your comments on talk pages with four tildes <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> or use the "sign your name" quick link in the edit box. That will add a timestamp and a signature after your posts. Moreover, for this type of speculative questions, I'd recommend [http://battlestarforum.com/index.php Battlestar Forum] (run by the same people as the wiki, though not as populated) over talk pages. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:41, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

== Age of Lion's Head Beacon ==

Is there a reference for the age of 3000 years of the beacon? The article about the beacon says nothing about it. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 16:57, 14 December 2007 (CST)
:It's mentioned in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" that the disease carried on the beacon is an exact match to one that was last reported "reported over 3,000 years ago. Right around the time that the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|13th Tribe]] left [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]]." I think that's where that comes from, which conflicts with Elosha's statement that the 13th Tribe left Kobol 4,000 years ago by the way. The [[Timeline (RDM)#Ancient History|timeline]] seems to suggest that they just went back later and left it there. You're right that ought to be in that article, I say go for it. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 02:25, 15 December 2007 (CST)

== Earth Time? ==

Given that things that happened on Galactica were tied into our reality here on Earth in some way, in the past or the future, or some other connection, in Season 4, when Earth be found, the year is 1940, during World War II. Or 10,000 BC or 2020, or present year (2008). I'm not sure at the moment, since creators avoid citing whether BSG takes place on the series' Earth's past, present, or future. [[User:Starkiller|Starkiller]] 08:42, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

== Picture ==

We need a picture of the post-apocalyptic earth. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 23:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if it's kosher to take it , but io9 pasted together a bunch of screenshots to get a panoramic here: http://io9.com/5018043/wheres-starbuck - I think we also need a Temple of Aurora cap. My friend said one of the burned out structures is clearly the remains of the Brooklyn Bridge. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:Jackdavinci|Jackdavinci]] 14:21, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think it's IO9's panorama, as I saw it elsewhere first. I have a nice temple of aurora cap, but every time I upload it gets "internal error, can't move file..." --[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 17:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

== Kara's 'Yellow Moon' Comment ==

The original page formerly included this:
"[[Kara Thrace]]'s description of the moon she sees as 'yellow,' and the fact that this matches the scroll of Pythia, is curious and unexplained. Her photo shows a yellowish moon during a partial lunar eclipse over a mostly gray-white planet, though she described the planet as blue with white clouds. However, the photographs are very desaturated—to the point of being black and white—and very likely don't represent the true colors. She may have intended to say 'yellow star and moon' (referring to the star as yellow) instead of 'yellow moon and star.'"

This "note" stems largely from ignorance of the true color of objects in our solar system. The moon is not, despite what we see in the sky, grey and white. It is a dull mix of browns, rusts, and yellows. It could easily be described as "yellow" when viewed from space and in partial illumination from the Sun. The moon has an albedo of 0.12 (in other words, it is a relatively ''dark'' body), and only appears in the highly desaturated shades we see it due to the intensity of sunlight reflecting off it. See this real-color image for a visual: [http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/chaissonat4/chapter1/medialib/image/g_earth_moon.jpeg].

Kara's comment was spot on. Also, our star is not really yellow--it is very close to 6500K white, but appears exaggeratedly yellow due to the same Rayleigh scattering that makes the sky blue.

-- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 05:30, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Earth (RDM)/Archive 1

2008-07-21T05:30:29Z

Dharadvani:

== Earth uninhabited/primitve/catastrophe?? ==

Everyone has still the amazing finale of Season 3 in mind. We were able to take a look at the Earth of BSG RDM. Although, we could see the familiar blue planet for a few seconds only, it was enough to determine one fact: There were no major cities visible from orbit, nor any other signs indicating that earth is actually inhabited with a highly advanced civilization. This leads to the question what happend to the thirteenth tribe? Were they wiped out? Are they much more primitive than their 12 brothers? Or something completely different? In my opinion I believe that Earth is the true origin of mankind and that the remaining citizens of the planet have developed in the 4000 years since the exodus to such advanced and godlike beings (maybe comparable to the beings of Stargate, the ancients) that they no longer need to live in high-tech cities, but travel through the universe with their powers. I mean, look at the episode Maelstrom. I think an earth human took the role of Leoben to prepare Kara for their "life and death experience". If they are able to communicate with humans in dreams, pull viper pilots to earth in a maelstrom and even reverse the death of Kara Thrace than the earth humans must be extremely powerful beings! {{unsigned|Cortes}}

:I sure hope that it's uninhabited - but perhaps habitable again - and that it's the true origin of mankind. It still wouldn't explain the close technological and cultural similarities after thousands of years, but everything else would pretty much destroy the show in my eyes. Especially if it were an advanced society. This just isn't the type of show to either have incorporeal beings or have a story resolved by magical new technology. An alternative would be a complete parallel universe, where humans didn't develop on Earth. But that whole Earth thing has never been a favorite of mine anyways and is beginning to take up way too much screen time. I never felt that the show was ''about'' the search for Earth and liked it when that story went on in the background.

:Also, please sign your comments on talk pages with four tildes <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> or use the "sign your name" quick link in the edit box. That will add a timestamp and a signature after your posts. Moreover, for this type of speculative questions, I'd recommend [http://battlestarforum.com/index.php Battlestar Forum] (run by the same people as the wiki, though not as populated) over talk pages. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:41, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

== Age of Lion's Head Beacon ==

Is there a reference for the age of 3000 years of the beacon? The article about the beacon says nothing about it. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 16:57, 14 December 2007 (CST)
:It's mentioned in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" that the disease carried on the beacon is an exact match to one that was last reported "reported over 3,000 years ago. Right around the time that the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|13th Tribe]] left [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]]." I think that's where that comes from, which conflicts with Elosha's statement that the 13th Tribe left Kobol 4,000 years ago by the way. The [[Timeline (RDM)#Ancient History|timeline]] seems to suggest that they just went back later and left it there. You're right that ought to be in that article, I say go for it. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 02:25, 15 December 2007 (CST)

== Earth Time? ==

Given that things that happened on Galactica were tied into our reality here on Earth in some way, in the past or the future, or some other connection, in Season 4, when Earth be found, the year is 1940, during World War II. Or 10,000 BC or 2020, or present year (2008). I'm not sure at the moment, since creators avoid citing whether BSG takes place on the series' Earth's past, present, or future. [[User:Starkiller|Starkiller]] 08:42, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

== Picture ==

We need a picture of the post-apocalyptic earth. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 23:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if it's kosher to take it , but io9 pasted together a bunch of screenshots to get a panoramic here: http://io9.com/5018043/wheres-starbuck - I think we also need a Temple of Aurora cap. My friend said one of the burned out structures is clearly the remains of the Brooklyn Bridge. Can anyone confirm? --[[User:Jackdavinci|Jackdavinci]] 14:21, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think it's IO9's panorama, as I saw it elsewhere first. I have a nice temple of aurora cap, but every time I upload it gets "internal error, can't move file..." --[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 17:32, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

== Kara's 'Yellow Moon' Comment ==

The original page formerly included this:
"[[Kara Thrace]]'s description of the moon she sees as 'yellow,' and the fact that this matches the scroll of Pythia, is curious and unexplained. Her photo shows a yellowish moon during a partial lunar eclipse over a mostly gray-white planet, though she described the planet as blue with white clouds. However, the photographs are very desaturated—to the point of being black and white—and very likely don't represent the true colors. She may have intended to say 'yellow star and moon' (referring to the star as yellow) instead of 'yellow moon and star.'"

This "note" stems largely from ignorance of the true color of objects in our solar system. The moon is not, despite what we see in the sky, grey and white. It is a dull mix of browns, rusts, and yellows. It could easily be described as "yellow" when viewed from space and in partial illumination from the Sun. The moon has an albedo of 0.12 (in other words, it is a relatively [i]dark[/i] body), and only appears in the highly desaturated shades we see it due to the intensity of sunlight reflecting off it. See this real-color image for a visual: http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/chaissonat4/chapter1/medialib/image/g_earth_moon.jpeg -- Kara's comment was spot on. Also, our star is not really yellow--it is very close to 6500K white, but appears exaggeratedly yellow due to the same Rayleigh scattering that makes the sky blue.

[[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 05:30, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Earth (RDM)

2008-07-21T05:15:34Z

Dharadvani: The "yellow moon" comment is not a source of inconsistency. See Discussion page.

[[Image:Earth (RDM).jpg|thumb|right|300px|Earth seen from space in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]".]]

In the [[Re-imagined Series]] '''Earth''' is the believed destination of the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]] of [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]], as attested in the [[Sacred Scrolls]]. The Thirteenth Tribe left for Earth nearly 4,000 years prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. The remaining Twelve Tribes leave Kobol to form the Colonies approximately 2,000 years after the Thirteenth Tribe's departure.

==A Cause for Hope==
Earth is first mentioned by Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] during a speech after the battlestar's funeral services after escaping from [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. Adama claims that Earth was a top military secret that can now be revealed (see [[Miniseries]]).

In a private conversation with new President [[Laura Roslin]] immediately afterward, Adama admits that he has not the slightest idea where Earth may be, if it exists. His true motivation was inspirational; he intended to bolster the morale of the population (especially his beleaguered crew) in the aftermath of the [[Cylon attack|near-annihilation]] of humanity.

==Tangible Faith==
While she is initially skeptical, rebuking Adama for his dishonesty, Laura Roslin's faith grows perceptibly throughout the first season. Her use of [[chamalla]] to treat her cancer causes vivid dreams and hallucinations. Roslin increasingly interprets these as prophetic visions, especially after the Fleet accidentally discovers the legendary homeworld [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Eventually, a [[Arrow of Apollo|religious artifact]] is recovered which later aids in revealing the general location of Earth ([[Home, Part II]]).

In the activated [[Tomb of Athena]], the stars of the Twelve Colonies are represented in the twelve [[Wikipedia:Zodiac|Zodiacal]] constellations, as viewed from Earth, recognized by Roslin as the shapes of the original flags of the Twelve Colonies. The chamber itself was intended by its builders to be a stylized replica of the night sky of the Earth, from which all twelve constellations could be seen. This is corroborated by [[Kara Thrace]], who quotes [[Sacred Scrolls|scripture]], saying that Earth was the place where the people of the Thirteenth Tribe could look up into the sky and see their twelve brothers.<ref>Some viewers may question how information on Earth's location could be recorded in the Tomb before the Thirteenth Tribe left for Earth. Had the tribes already visited Earth? Did the tribes ''originate'' from Earth? For more information on the circular origins of humanity as it pertains to the Re-imagined Series, see the article on the [[Sacred Scrolls]].</ref>

Morerover, [[Lee Adama]] recognizes the [[Wikipedia:Lagoon Nebula|Lagoon Nebula]], also represented in the night sky of the mystery chamber. This astronomical object is known to Fleet personnel, since [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] remarks that this celestial body would take some time to reach.

==More Clues to Earth==
Over a year later, the Fleet discovers a derelict [[Basestar (RDM)|Cylon baseship]] near the [[Lion's Head Nebula]], a celestial marker revealed by [[Felix Gaeta]] to Admiral Adama and President Roslin ([[Torn]]). The information is derived from [[Gaius Baltar]]'s research on the path to Earth. The derelict basestar finds an [[Lion's Head beacon|ancient beacon]] left by the Thirteenth Tribe. While a Colonial boarding party finds the probe, it also learns that the [[Humanoid Cylon]]s aboard the basestar are dead or dying, suggesting a deadly pathogen was released by the beacon. In their haste to leave and for the safety of the Fleet, the beacon is abandoned on the basestar, where it is destroyed when the basestar self-destructs ([[A Measure of Salvation]]).

After the Fleet must gather needed foodstuffs from the [[algae planet]], believed previously uninhabited by humans, [[Galen Tyrol]] senses and finds the [[Temple of Five]], an ancient [[temple]] built by the Thirteenth Tribe, as told in the [[Sacred Scrolls]], apparently built during a stopover on this world. Believed to be hidden inside the Temple of Five is the [[Eye of Jupiter]], an artifact that may provide more clues to the location of Earth. However, a Cylon force arrives with the same intentions on the Eye, leading to a standoff between Adama and the [[basestar command]] ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]). The Eye is later revealed to be the algae planet's own star as it began to nova, taking the form of the circular starburst patterns throughout the Temple of Five. While the Colonials are not privy to the special holograph feature of the Temple that the Cylons witness in the early moments of the nova, the Colonials are later are able to discern the information of the new nova as a waypoint to the next marker, a nebula in the [[Ionian system]] ([[Rapture]]).

When the Fleet arrives at the nebula, it is intercepted by four basestars. Unable to escape due to a mysterious, crippling Fleet-wide power outage, ''Galactica'' is forced to prepare for attack and launches Vipers and Raptors. [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] breaks off from the attack to track an "Unknown" contact on [[DRADIS]]. The contact is Captain [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], miraculously [[Maelstrom|returned from the dead]] with news that she has been to Earth, knows its location and how to take the Fleet there.

The episode "[[Crossroads, Part II]]" concludes with a sweeping zoom from the Fleet, the Cylons, the Ionian nebula and to an arm of the [[W:Milky Way|Milky Way]] and to a zoom in to Earth itself, confirming that Earth is an actual location (from the perspective of the viewers), showing Earth's North American continent.<ref>The depiction of Earth includes a geographically accurate landmark: the Balize lobe of the [[w:Mississippi River Delta|Mississippi river delta]], a feature formed between the 16th and 20th Centuries of the real-world Earth. However, no further conclusions should be inferred as the series creators deliberately avoid confirming whether ''Battlestar Galactica'' occurs in the real-world Earth's past, present, or future.</ref>

According to the [[Hybrid]], the [[Final Five]] are from the "home of the 13th," generally interpreted as Earth ([[Faith]]). This matches statements made in the "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]" claiming that the Temple of Five was built by people from the thirteenth tribe.

===Starbuck's Visit===
[[Image:Kara Thrace Reconnaissance Photos.png|thumb|right|200px|Starbuck's claimed photo from near Earth.]]
Starbuck claims she visited Earth in her Viper, a trip which took about 6 hours by her recollection while months passed for the Fleet. She is unaware of how she got to and from Earth in a Viper (which does not have FTL capability.) She describes Earth as having blue seas and white clouds, and took a variety of photos from her Viper. She also describes a "yellow moon and star" matching the descriptions by Pythia. Her photos have star patterns matching the Zodiac seen in the [[Tomb of Athena]]. On the return trip, she describes seeing a ringed gas giant planet a "flashing triple star" and a comet. This turns out to be a vision of a burning basestar (the comet) around a gas giant at the site of a [[Cylon Civil War]] battle ([[Faith]]).

After the Fleet leaves the Ionian Nebula, Thrace feels pain with each jump and is overcome by a strong sense that the Fleet is going the wrong way ([[He That Believeth In Me]]). She confronts Roslin in her quarters to stop this from happening, but is thrown in the [[brig]] by the Marines. However, she is later released to take command of the ''[[Demetrius]]'' in an attempt to find Earth ([[Six of One]]).

== Arrival and Ruins ==
After being informed by [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] and [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] that something about [[Starbuck's Viper|her Viper]] is different, Starbuck climbs in the cockpit and powers up the electronics, detecting what appears to be a Colonial emergency locator signal, which only the Viper can receive. After determining that it is likely a bearing to Earth, the Fleet plots a jump and arrives in the planet's orbit, leading to ecstatic jubilation throughout the Fleet.

However, the happiness is short-lived when a combined human-Cylon team lands on the planet and arrives at a shore, overlooking a destroyed city. Moreover, Geiger counters detect radioactivity, indicating the city - and possibly the whole planet - suffered a nuclear catastrophe ([[Revelations]]).

==Notes==
*Several clues point to Earth as the true homeworld of humanity. As the Fleet approaches Earth, the artifacts they encounter become more ancient. The ruins on Kobol are 2,000 years old, the Lion's Head nebula beacon is 3,000 years old, and the Temple of Five is dated to 4,000 years.

== Official Statements ==

* ''[[Edward James Olmos]] jokingly describes how he thinks the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] could find Earth:''

:I personally — this is not [from] any of the writers, but my thing — I wanted to come into [the present day], find Earth, cruise on top of it, see it for what it is, and as we're coming down to it, we're blown up, we're nuked. And then [someone says to] the [[w:President of the United States|President of the United States]], which is [[w:George W. Bush|[George W.] Bush]], "They've been taken care of. Thank God you saved the world again." And you turn, and you see who told him that, and it's one of the Cylons. [''Laughs'']<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20015932_2,00.html|title=Four-ward, Cylons: Edward James Olmos|date=23 March 2007|accessdate=22 June 2007|last=Vary|first=Adam B.|format=|language=}}</ref>

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>
{{RDM Planets}}
[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Planets]]
[[Category:RDM]]

<pagesidebar>
* See Also
** Sacred Scrolls#The Origin of Mankind|Origin of Mankind theories
* Other Series
** Earth (TOS)|Earth from TOS
** Earth (1980)|Earth from "Galactica 1980"
</pagesidebar>

[[de:Erde (RDM)]]
[[ms:Bumi (RDM)]]

Talk:Sine Qua Non/Archive 1

2008-06-27T07:19:07Z

Dharadvani:

{{newsection link}}

== No promo pics ==

As far as I can tell, no promo pics for this episode were released?? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:37, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
: I suspect that there's a reason for this... and it may relate {{spoilli|to Mary McDonnell}}. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Promo spoilers ==

{{spoilli|Romo Lampkin appears towards the end of the trailer; could this be the returning "favourite character"?}} (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dbjPNG_9Xo) --[[User:Kosh|Kosh]] 04:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lock? ==

Considering on this side of the Atlantic we get the episode 3 days before the US does, what is the procedure going to be for locking this article (and the rest of 4.0)? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:Lock it a day before the UK airing I guess. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
::And keep it locked for 4 days? That would be a very long time to have an article locked. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 22:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Mhh, yeah, that is a problem. We could unlock it until the US airing and then lock it again. So there are 2-3 days to edit it. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 22:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I feel that it'll be determined on a case-by-case basis... If the article is sufficiently developed by Friday, we may just leave it unlocked and see how the server copes. If not, then we lock on Friday and Saturday (till noon-ish). Sound good? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
: I don't see any real need to lock this article on Friday, since it's pretty fleshed out. If it becomes a performance issue, then, we'll lock it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Surviour Count ==

How are we qualifiying the count as going up?

Caprica Six has an unborn baby, which is obviously debatable in terms of counting as a surviour because the baby's parents are both Cylons and it isn't even born, but I digress as that isn't my point.

Either way, a Raptor poliot has been ''confirmed'' dead and a Viper pilot has been persumed dead, which at worst cancels the unborn baby in terms of surviours.
--[[User:Syferus|Syferus]] 19:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
:Children are born within the Fleet. There are a couple of cases where the count just goes up or deaths are offset. In fact it probably doesn't happen often enough. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
::"In universe" the teaser ends only a few hours after [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]] does, so its likely that the "battle of the resurrection hub" hadn't concluded by that point. It's interesting to note they didn't subtract all the abductees though. My guess is that the [[The Hub]] will be chronologically concurrent with Sine Qua Non, making our survivor count next week a little confusing. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 12:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lance the Cat is not dead ==

When Romo discovers Lee Adama is the only candidate for the President he is talking to his cat, Lance. He leaves to go confront Lee and he says to the cat, "Lance, defense rests. Come on." In the next scene he claiming Lance was dead for weeks.

If this is true it fits Romo's pattern of manipulation. He used the same pattern during the trial of Balter (the use of the cane). The best explanation is that Romo is using the cat to manipulate Lee.

: The cat is dead, Jim. Lee sees the body of it in the duffel bag. Also, there are several indicators to all of this in the episode; the fact that no one else but Romo sees the pet, Lee almost tripping over an overturned, empty dish... not to mention Lampkin's general depression and ennui. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
: This confused me too, but go back and look at those scenes. One of the first scenes, the cat is sitting next to Romo on the bed, and it when it cuts away from Romo the cat is gone. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 11:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Fundamental difference? ==
There is another possible explanation for Caprica-Six's pregnancy, maybe the [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePowerOfLove love theory] is correct, perhaps Cylon have some sort of biological failsafe to prevent them from breeding in the wrong circumstances. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

: Considering that this episode takes place during the time frame when the Cylons are out of resurrection range, there are two other possibilities. One, that the ability to resurrect is the cause of their inability to reproduce, and when Cylons are out of range (which they rarely choose to be), they can successfully reproduce biologically. Another, more basic explanation is that the Final Five were somehow intentionally separated from the seven because one from each group is necessary to reproduce, and whatever caused them to split and not speak of the Final Five did this intentionally. [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 00:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
::It should be noted that when Helo impregnated Sharon Agathon, she was almost certainly in resurrection range. --~~
:::True, but Helo is not a Cylon, as far as we know. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 07:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
== Incorrect quote ==
In re "Lampkin: Quandary is, one doesn't generally get the chance to wield political power without the ambition to actively seek it. That same ambition often compromises the unselfish motives that began the quest. In other words, in a battle of it versus ego, that ego rarely wins."

I'm pretty sure it was "ID versus ego." That's how I heard it and it makes alot more sense. Lampkin was talking about repressed desiers ( ID ) beating out our unselfish motives (ego). I didn't record the show, however, so someone who can check may want to edit this. {{unsigned|Glaucon}}

: Agreed. It's "id vs. ego". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== If / when ==

''"What exactly happened to the rebel baseship and the [[Resurrection Hub]]? Did the rebels and Colonials escape '''when/if''' their baseship was destroyed?"''

Seems its difficult to decide if it is conclusive that the rebel basestar was destroyed or not. IMO I'd go for "if", because although it looks likely, it's not certain (Adama still has hope for one). They'd probably have to have destroyed one of Cavil's basestars if they were to eliminate the Hub. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 17:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, now that you say it, that seems to be correct. Sorry. To me it initially seemed like the basestar is destroyed for sure. Which is what Tigh thinks. But Adama believes that they survived. So there is some uncertainty. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== More breaks than acts? ==

Is it my imagination, or did SkyOne throw in more commercial breaks than there are acts in this episode? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:It was hard for me to follow, particularly since the central Indiana area was dodging severe thunderstorms and tornadoes during the first broadcast, which interrupted my cable recordings and totally munged up my DVR. Ssssss... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
: Well, I'll see if I can't catch a repeat, unless someone beats me to it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

== Boomer/Athena's song (hum?) ==

Just wanted to let you guys know that the song Boomer/Athena both hum is a traditional Korean children's song. The title would roughly translate to "The Stream Deep in the Forest." I guess Grace Park picked the song, since she's Korean.
[[User:Icenerve|Icenerve]] 17:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)icenerve
:As noted at [[Flesh and Bone#Notes]] (at the very end), though the title is given a bit different there. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:52, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Where Romo confronted Lee ==

The article assumes that Romo held Lee at gunpoint in Colonial One. While it was clearly the Colonial One set, the way it was lit, shot, and the added industrial details made it seem to me that it was a redress that was supposed to be Romo's ship. -- [[User:David cgc|David cgc]] 16:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:Could be either. Lampkin is alone and then goes off to see Adama. But then he runs into Adama in the hallway. That could either mean that Adama simultaneously goes to see Lampkin (the reason for which isn't explained), or that the two run into each other on ''Colonial One''. It's not like the ship is all plush and luxury. There are cargo areas in the bowels of the ships for example. Anyways, I removed, since it's a bit unclear, but not vital information -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::Guys, wow... It's ''Colonial One'', since Romo just came from deliberations with the Quorum, which meets on ''Colonial One''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Erm, it doesn't say that he comes from a Quorum meeting. "We found our candidate. One the Quorum won't hesitate to approve". That doesn't sound like he actually talked to them yet. One might also say that he is just leaving his quarters and runs into Adama outside. I consider it be ''Colonial One'' as well, but I can see why people can be confused about it. But as said, it doesn't really matter. Or could Lampkin actually live somewhere on ''Colonial One''? Ah..I don't really care :p -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::: I suppose I can see where other people are coming from. Anyway, hopefully the podcast might clear that up, once one's released. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::My assumption (and it is only that) from Romo saying Laura gave him the room was that Romo's new room is on Colonial One. It's a big ship that does house some civilians on a permanent basis, and it kinda fits. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::That'd make sense. I'm sure the person or persons who had that room before him weren't too pleased to give up such a spacious piece of real estate. :P -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

== Battlestar leaving the fleet undefended ==

The wiki states:
<blockquote>
Despite the fact that Galactica has left the Fleet before to engage combat, this episode marks the first time that the civilian Fleet is intentionally left without any defense. The only other time the Fleet was left without military aid was after Boomer's assassination attempt of William Adama, when Galactica accidentally jumped to different coordinates than the rest of the Fleet (Scattered).</blockquote>
Actually the Pegasus left the (residual) fleet undefended during the Battle of New Caprica. I added a note to this effect to the wiki, but someone edited it out. —The preceding '''[[BW:SIGN|unsigned]]''' comment was added by [[User:Gmusser|Gmusser]] ([[User talk:Gmusser|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gmusser|contribs]]).
:''Pegasus'' left its entire air wing behind to guard the residual fleet, hence the need for suicidal tactics at the Battle of New Caprica. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
::Exactly the reason why I removed it. At least I think it was me :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see your point. Thanks for setting me straight. Why don't you flesh out this part of the discusson?--[[User:Gmusser|Gmusser]] 15:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== Is Tigh definately the father? ==

Tigh and Adama assume that Tigh is the father, but is that necessarily so? --[[User:SSH|SSH]] 16:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:I think we had this discussion before, but the server reset deleted it. Basically, all indications are yes. Caprica-Six has been in the holding cell for months (so was not pregnant before). Access to her was limited (consider Romo in [[Crossroads, Part I]]), and even fewer people would have had the authority to turn the cameras off. Although it's a common cliché in fiction for the father not to be who you think it is, such a revelation in this case would be a large, and rather unnecessary stretch IMO. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 17:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Missing Pilots. ==

This article states that the two missing pilots were most likely lost in a scene that was filmed but cut. I however, thought that Starbuck was referring to the two vipers shown when scouting Sector Delta 9. This would make sense, as the scene occurs after the discovery of Sandman's viper and the additional Mark II, and, while the fates of Galactica's other pilots aboard the Rebel Baseship are still unknown, the crew has tangible proof of two deceased or at least MIA pilots from this evidence. Thoughts? [[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 20:26, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

:That doesn't really make sense with the dialogue in the scene:
::Adama: Have the Raptors and the civilian ships begin the search from Phantom's last known position...Is that a problem?
::Thrace: Sir, respectfully... I've already got two missing pilots and hardly enough birds left to protect this Fleet. Now you're asking me to send the remainder of the Raptors out on a blind search, looking for a ship that very well may have been destroyed.

:First, Adama orders her to continue searching from the location of a specific pilot. He wouldn't say this if he were talking about the battle site. Second, they appear to be talking about a search party, which means Raptors. Third, the pilots on the rebel baseship are already missing; all of them. They appear to be talking about additional missing people, specifically about people directly under Thrace's command at that point. Sure, far from definite, but that's the most likely scenario IMHO. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

:Perhaps, but it was my opinion that Phantom was code for the Rebel Baseship, not a specific pilot's callsign. The dialogue would support this, as Kara's point of contention is that Adama is asking her to risk additional pilots to search for a ship that very well may already be destroyed. Therefore, Adama is ordering Thrace to begin searching starting from their last known, most likely Sector Delta 9. Thrace is reluctant to comply, as the crew already has definite word of two pilots separated from their birds, and this would obviously be detrimental to moral, most likely more so than the other pilots aboard the baseship, whose fates are not yet certain. I don't see the search party connection from the dialogue quoted. Yes, they are talking about sending out the additional Raptors, however, there is nothing in the quote to suggest that it is another party that was lost. I can see how this issue is so vague, there were a lot of unexplained and ambiguous issues in the dialogue of SQN. Guess we'll have to wait for the season 4 DVD or the podcast to know for sure.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Sine Qua Non/Archive 1

2008-06-24T00:18:15Z

Dharadvani:

{{newsection link}}

== No promo pics ==

As far as I can tell, no promo pics for this episode were released?? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:37, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
: I suspect that there's a reason for this... and it may relate {{spoilli|to Mary McDonnell}}. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Promo spoilers ==

{{spoilli|Romo Lampkin appears towards the end of the trailer; could this be the returning "favourite character"?}} (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dbjPNG_9Xo) --[[User:Kosh|Kosh]] 04:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lock? ==

Considering on this side of the Atlantic we get the episode 3 days before the US does, what is the procedure going to be for locking this article (and the rest of 4.0)? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:Lock it a day before the UK airing I guess. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
::And keep it locked for 4 days? That would be a very long time to have an article locked. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 22:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Mhh, yeah, that is a problem. We could unlock it until the US airing and then lock it again. So there are 2-3 days to edit it. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 22:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I feel that it'll be determined on a case-by-case basis... If the article is sufficiently developed by Friday, we may just leave it unlocked and see how the server copes. If not, then we lock on Friday and Saturday (till noon-ish). Sound good? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
: I don't see any real need to lock this article on Friday, since it's pretty fleshed out. If it becomes a performance issue, then, we'll lock it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Surviour Count ==

How are we qualifiying the count as going up?

Caprica Six has an unborn baby, which is obviously debatable in terms of counting as a surviour because the baby's parents are both Cylons and it isn't even born, but I digress as that isn't my point.

Either way, a Raptor poliot has been ''confirmed'' dead and a Viper pilot has been persumed dead, which at worst cancels the unborn baby in terms of surviours.
--[[User:Syferus|Syferus]] 19:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
:Children are born within the Fleet. There are a couple of cases where the count just goes up or deaths are offset. In fact it probably doesn't happen often enough. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
::"In universe" the teaser ends only a few hours after [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]] does, so its likely that the "battle of the resurrection hub" hadn't concluded by that point. It's interesting to note they didn't subtract all the abductees though. My guess is that the [[The Hub]] will be chronologically concurrent with Sine Qua Non, making our survivor count next week a little confusing. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 12:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lance the Cat is not dead ==

When Romo discovers Lee Adama is the only candidate for the President he is talking to his cat, Lance. He leaves to go confront Lee and he says to the cat, "Lance, defense rests. Come on." In the next scene he claiming Lance was dead for weeks.

If this is true it fits Romo's pattern of manipulation. He used the same pattern during the trial of Balter (the use of the cane). The best explanation is that Romo is using the cat to manipulate Lee.

: The cat is dead, Jim. Lee sees the body of it in the duffel bag. Also, there are several indicators to all of this in the episode; the fact that no one else but Romo sees the pet, Lee almost tripping over an overturned, empty dish... not to mention Lampkin's general depression and ennui. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
: This confused me too, but go back and look at those scenes. One of the first scenes, the cat is sitting next to Romo on the bed, and it when it cuts away from Romo the cat is gone. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 11:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Fundamental difference? ==
There is another possible explanation for Caprica-Six's pregnancy, maybe the [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePowerOfLove love theory] is correct, perhaps Cylon have some sort of biological failsafe to prevent them from breeding in the wrong circumstances. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

: Considering that this episode takes place during the time frame when the Cylons are out of resurrection range, there are two other possibilities. One, that the ability to resurrect is the cause of their inability to reproduce, and when Cylons are out of range (which they rarely choose to be), they can successfully reproduce biologically. Another, more basic explanation is that the Final Five were somehow intentionally separated from the seven because one from each group is necessary to reproduce, and whatever caused them to split and not speak of the Final Five did this intentionally. [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 00:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
== Incorrect quote ==
In re "Lampkin: Quandary is, one doesn't generally get the chance to wield political power without the ambition to actively seek it. That same ambition often compromises the unselfish motives that began the quest. In other words, in a battle of it versus ego, that ego rarely wins."

I'm pretty sure it was "ID versus ego." That's how I heard it and it makes alot more sense. Lampkin was talking about repressed desiers ( ID ) beating out our unselfish motives (ego). I didn't record the show, however, so someone who can check may want to edit this. {{unsigned|Glaucon}}

: Agreed. It's "id vs. ego". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== If / when ==

''"What exactly happened to the rebel baseship and the [[Resurrection Hub]]? Did the rebels and Colonials escape '''when/if''' their baseship was destroyed?"''

Seems its difficult to decide if it is conclusive that the rebel basestar was destroyed or not. IMO I'd go for "if", because although it looks likely, it's not certain (Adama still has hope for one). They'd probably have to have destroyed one of Cavil's basestars if they were to eliminate the Hub. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 17:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, now that you say it, that seems to be correct. Sorry. To me it initially seemed like the basestar is destroyed for sure. Which is what Tigh thinks. But Adama believes that they survived. So there is some uncertainty. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== More breaks than acts? ==

Is it my imagination, or did SkyOne throw in more commercial breaks than there are acts in this episode? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:It was hard for me to follow, particularly since the central Indiana area was dodging severe thunderstorms and tornadoes during the first broadcast, which interrupted my cable recordings and totally munged up my DVR. Ssssss... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
: Well, I'll see if I can't catch a repeat, unless someone beats me to it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

== Boomer/Athena's song (hum?) ==

Just wanted to let you guys know that the song Boomer/Athena both hum is a traditional Korean children's song. The title would roughly translate to "The Stream Deep in the Forest." I guess Grace Park picked the song, since she's Korean.
[[User:Icenerve|Icenerve]] 17:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)icenerve
:As noted at [[Flesh and Bone#Notes]] (at the very end), though the title is given a bit different there. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:52, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Where Romo confronted Lee ==

The article assumes that Romo held Lee at gunpoint in Colonial One. While it was clearly the Colonial One set, the way it was lit, shot, and the added industrial details made it seem to me that it was a redress that was supposed to be Romo's ship. -- [[User:David cgc|David cgc]] 16:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:Could be either. Lampkin is alone and then goes off to see Adama. But then he runs into Adama in the hallway. That could either mean that Adama simultaneously goes to see Lampkin (the reason for which isn't explained), or that the two run into each other on ''Colonial One''. It's not like the ship is all plush and luxury. There are cargo areas in the bowels of the ships for example. Anyways, I removed, since it's a bit unclear, but not vital information -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::Guys, wow... It's ''Colonial One'', since Romo just came from deliberations with the Quorum, which meets on ''Colonial One''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Erm, it doesn't say that he comes from a Quorum meeting. "We found our candidate. One the Quorum won't hesitate to approve". That doesn't sound like he actually talked to them yet. One might also say that he is just leaving his quarters and runs into Adama outside. I consider it be ''Colonial One'' as well, but I can see why people can be confused about it. But as said, it doesn't really matter. Or could Lampkin actually live somewhere on ''Colonial One''? Ah..I don't really care :p -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::: I suppose I can see where other people are coming from. Anyway, hopefully the podcast might clear that up, once one's released. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::My assumption (and it is only that) from Romo saying Laura gave him the room was that Romo's new room is on Colonial One. It's a big ship that does house some civilians on a permanent basis, and it kinda fits. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::That'd make sense. I'm sure the person or persons who had that room before him weren't too pleased to give up such a spacious piece of real estate. :P -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

== Battlestar leaving the fleet undefended ==

The wiki states:
<blockquote>
Despite the fact that Galactica has left the Fleet before to engage combat, this episode marks the first time that the civilian Fleet is intentionally left without any defense. The only other time the Fleet was left without military aid was after Boomer's assassination attempt of William Adama, when Galactica accidentally jumped to different coordinates than the rest of the Fleet (Scattered).</blockquote>
Actually the Pegasus left the (residual) fleet undefended during the Battle of New Caprica. I added a note to this effect to the wiki, but someone edited it out. —The preceding '''[[BW:SIGN|unsigned]]''' comment was added by [[User:Gmusser|Gmusser]] ([[User talk:Gmusser|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gmusser|contribs]]).
:''Pegasus'' left its entire air wing behind to guard the residual fleet, hence the need for suicidal tactics at the Battle of New Caprica. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
::Exactly the reason why I removed it. At least I think it was me :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see your point. Thanks for setting me straight. Why don't you flesh out this part of the discusson?--[[User:Gmusser|Gmusser]] 15:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== Is Tigh definately the father? ==

Tigh and Adama assume that Tigh is the father, but is that necessarily so? --[[User:SSH|SSH]] 16:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:I think we had this discussion before, but the server reset deleted it. Basically, all indications are yes. Caprica-Six has been in the holding cell for months (so was not pregnant before). Access to her was limited (consider Romo in [[Crossroads, Part I]]), and even fewer people would have had the authority to turn the cameras off. Although it's a common cliché in fiction for the father not to be who you think it is, such a revelation in this case would be a large, and rather unnecessary stretch IMO. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 17:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Continuity errors (TRS)

2008-05-23T10:34:22Z

Dharadvani: Removed the dialogue "error" from "Scattered"; pronouncing 'Gods' sakes' would be unnatural and the apparent gaffe is just normal linguistic elision.

This is a listing of '''continuity errors''' in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]].

== Acknowledged Mistakes ==

*At the end of "[[Home, Part II]]", when everyone is looking at the map to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] in the [[Tomb of Athena]], Lee Adama points out the [[w:Lagoon Nebula|Lagoon Nebula]] in one of the constellations shown in the sky. According to him, and supported by the visual effects, the nebula is located in [[w:Scorpius|Scorpio]], but in the real world it is actually in the constellation [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]].
*At the beginning of "[[Downloaded]]" two captions are shown: one states that the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon Attack]] in the [[Miniseries, Night 1|Miniseries]] occurred nine months before the current episode (which is consistent with the other episodes in Season 2.5), while the second reads "10 weeks ago", and then shows [[Cally Tyrol|Cally]] shooting [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]] in "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]". However, it is impossible for this to have happened "10 weeks before 9 months after the attack": 9 months = 270 days. There is another plaque in the episode "[[Epiphanies]]" which clearly states on screen that that episode took place on Day 189. There are 70 days in 10 weeks. 70 days before Day 270 would be around Day 200; well after "Epiphanies". To correct this, the title card of the DVD and international television releases has been changed to "10 weeks later", meaning 10 weeks after [[Number Six|Number Six's]] rebirth.
*In "[[Scar]]" Starbuck and Kat fly [[Viper Mark VII]]s but the launch in the originally aired episode showed a [[Viper Mark II]]. This has been fixed in the DVD release which now includes a new, but somewhat shorter, launch sequence with the Mk VIIs. (Although, a few previous episodes like "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" only use the Mk II sequence, but both types of Vipers are deployed by ''Galactica''.)
*"[[Exodus, Part I]]": At the end of "[[Precipice]]" Cally is clearly in the woods when the gunfire is going off. At the time [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] and his group take aim at the [[Cylon Centurion]], Cally has not reached the wooded area by the time gunfire sounds. Further, when the gunfire begins in "Precipice", Tyrol is at the firing position, far from Cally, while in "Exodus, Part I" he is holding her to the ground when it begins.

== [[Retroactive continuity|Retcons]] ==
*[[Season two timeline discontinuity]]: All episodes before Season 2.5 (starting with "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]") seem to indicate that Season 2.5 begins 3-4 months after the Cylon attack. However, "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and all subsequent Season 2.5 episodes indicate that "Resurrection Ship, Part I" began 6 months after the Cylon attack. See the main article for more detailed analysis. There are 3 main points of discontinuity:
**[[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Valerii]] is not visibly pregnant in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", but by "[[Epiphanies]]", roughly 2-3 weeks later, she appears to be in her second trimester.
**The presidential elections in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" are said to take place 9 months after the attack, when throughout Season 1 it was consistently said to be 7 months after the Cylon attack.
**If all of the dates mentioned in each episode are counted up, "Pegasus" only occurs roughly three months post-attack, not six.
*[[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet numbers]]: In the [[Miniseries]], a total of 40 [[FTL]] ships (led by Roslin) rendezvous with ''Galactica'' at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. This makes the count 41 ships, including ''Galactica''. However, this number was enlarged for the series. In "[[33]]," Dualla states: "Jump 237 underway... 53 ships have jumped, 10 still reporting trouble with their FTL drives, including ''Colonial One''." Thus making the total 64 ships, including ''Galactica'' herself. By the end of "33", the count drops to 63 as [[Lee Adama]] and [[Kara Thrace]] destroy the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]''. In "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", Colonel Tigh mentions the Cylons searching for "a sixty-odd ships". The count offered in "[[The Farm]]" is similar — 24 ships leave to join [[Laura Roslin faction|Roslin's fleet]], which was "almost a third" of the Fleet, putting the number at about 75. About 65 ships have been named to date, mostly on the vote tally boards in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
*The ''[[Astral Queen]]'': In the [[Miniseries]], [[Billy Keikeya]] states that the captain had 500 prisoners in his cargo hold, and that the ''Queen'' was a cargo vessel transporting prisoners to a prison. In "[[Bastille Day]]", [[Billy Keikeya]]'s lines were re-dubbed: '''1,500''' prisoners are aboard the ''Astral Queen'' and that the ship was a '''prison transport'''. Lee Adama would go on to later state that the ''Astral Queen'' was en route to [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] for parole hearings.
*[[Cylon detector]]: In the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]", it takes only minutes to identify [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]] as a Cylon. However, in "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", he states that complete testing on one sample of blood takes 11 hours. However, this could be because a negative result takes 11 hours to confirm but a positive result potentially may be more instant.
*The exodus from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]]: In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" Elosha, Billy and Roslin are discussing Kobol and the exodus of the tribes. Billy says that the ruins on Kobol are 2,000 years old. Elosha states this is when the ''Thirteen'' tribes left Kobol. Other mentions in the show (particularly [[Season 3 (2006-07)|Season 3]] episodes concerning the [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|Cylon virus]] and the [[Temple of Five]]) mention that the 13th tribe left Kobol about 2,000 years before the other twelve did. Elosha's comment implies that all thirteen tribes left Kobol together, just in different directions.

== Danglers ==
Danglers are plotlines that have been started, but haven't yet been continued as of the end of [[Season 3 (2006-07)|Season 3]].
*[[Caprica-Six]] meeting: In the [[Miniseries]], at the end of the scene where [[Number Six]] and [[Gaius Baltar]] walk through the park, Six says she has to meet someone. After Baltar walks away, she looks off-camera and says she had "been wondering when you'd get here." After this, there is a cut to ''Galatica''. Given that was the day of/before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], it appears likely that the meeting was related to the Cylon's plans. Regardless of who she was meeting, this has not been revisited.
*[[Tom Zarek|Zarek]]-[[Ellen Tigh|Tigh]] plotline: In the episode "[[Colonial Day]]", it is heavily implied that [[Ellen Tigh]] revealed the location of [[Valance]] to agents of [[Tom Zarek]], and that she intends for her husband, Colonel [[Saul Tigh]], to meet with Zarek's people in the near future. As of the start of the third season, this plotline has not been revisited and probably will never be in light of Ellen's death in "[[Exodus, Part II]]".
*Zarek-[[Black market (organization)|black market]] plotline: Similarly, the end of "[[Black Market]]" implies that Zarek has assumed some measure of influence in that organization. This also has yet to be revisited.
*[[Demand Peace]]: The pro-Cylon terrorist faction that sprung up in the fleet during "[[Epiphanies]]" has yet to resurface as well. The episode concluded without any firm resolution regarding the fate of the movement and its leader [[Royan Jahee]], however their base of operations, "[[Cloud 9]]", was destroyed by [[Gina]] in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]". The plotline of "Epiphanies" implies that the group is gearing up for a full-scale campaign against the Fleet's leadership, but they are never seen again and the fates of the group's members are not discussed later on.
*Cylon Settlement of Earth: In "[[Torn]]", [[Number Three]] informs Baltar that the Cylons intend to settle Earth as their new home. This plotline, which motivates the Cylon search for the [[Temple of Five]] throughout the first half of the third season, has not been mentioned since the start of the fourth season, as the arc gives way to Three's monomaniacal obsession with the [[Final Five]].

== Recasting ==
*[[Zak Adama]]: In the [[Miniseries]], a different actor (or stand-in) is pictured as Zak Adama. In "[[Act of Contrition]]", a new actor portrays Zak, and the picture was changed to reflect the casting choice.
*[[Ellen Tigh]]: Same with Zak Adama. The picture of Saul Tigh's wife, which Tigh has burned a hole through, was originally a picture of [[David Eick]]'s wife, Jennifer Berchfeild. When [[Kate Vernon]] was cast as Ellen in "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", the image was changed.
*[[Richard Adar]]: In the Miniseries he is [[:md:Image:Bsg-baltar-adar.jpg|portrayed]] by [[David Eick]] in a photograph in Baltar's domicile on Caprica. When Adar appears in person in "[[Epiphanies]]" he is played by [[Colm Feore]].
*[[Carolanne Adama]] is portrayed by an uncredited actress during a cameo in "[[Act of Contrition]]". She is portrayed by [[Lucinda Jenney]] in the episode "[[A Day in the Life]]".

== Logic errors ==

* "[[He That Believeth In Me]]":
** In the previous episode ([[Crossroads, Part II]]), it is established that [[Samuel Anders]] has a limp from a broken leg he received in "[[The Son Also Rises]]". The limp is visible in the revelation of the "[[frakr:Fantastic Four|Fantastic Four]]" in the last act. However, the limp disappears completely in "He That Believeth In Me" in events that are depicted to happen mere 10 or less minutes later.
** In "Crossroads, Part II", it is inferred that Samuel Anders only began his training, as he is being shown avionics and other key systems in a Raptor by Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson]]. In this episode, he tells [[Kara Thrace]] that he concluded basic training and began [[ACM]], and is capable of flying the Viper.

== VFX Gaffes ==
[[Image:1104reverse Scattered.JPG|thumb|left|Mirrored shot of Viper 1104 ([[Scattered]]).]]
*[[Miniseries]]: No less than three copies of [[Viper 1104]] are present at the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. Of these, one is crash landed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace|Thrace]], one destroyed by Cylon fire, and one successfully landed on ''Galactica''.
*[[Miniseries]] and "[[33]]": As ''Galactica'' prepares to jump to Ragnar Anchorage, the flight pods retract. As the ship jumps, the pods are not retracted. When ''Galactica'' has jumped to Ragnar Anchorage the pods are retracted again. This same footage is shown during the opening titles of "33".
*"[[33]]": As the Cylon Centurion approaches Helo from behind, the rain is hitting it, but it does not drip off its body. In contrast, water is dripping from Helo's face in a fairly consistent and noticeable manner.
*"[[You Can't Go Home Again]]": Before searching for Starbuck, [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] climbs into a Viper Mk VII, although he is shown piloting a Mk II in all other effects shots. However, his Mark VII is mentioned as being down for repairs at one point, implying that he flies it off screen.
*"[[Season 1 (2004-05)|Amid Season 1]]": Half-way through Season 1, the ''[[Colonial One]]'' CG model was updated and the seal of the President of the Colonies was added to the hull. However, the reuse of stock footage from the Miniseries and earlier in the first season cause the seal to continually disappear and reappear in the same episode depending on what shot is used.
*"[[Scattered]]": A shot of Viper 1104 is mirrored accidentally.
*"[[Flight of the Phoenix]]"''':
**Viper and [[List of pilots|pilot]] numbers: 42 Vipers are deployed at a time when no more than 34 could have been serviceable, and with no more than 25 pilots available.
**[[Blackbird]]: As the [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot]] begins, the Blackbird (still incomplete, untested, and missing its composite skin by this point) can be seen swooping across the screen in a manner inconsistent with its flight characteristics; the ship was built for speed, not maneuverability. The ship also fires what appears to be autocannons, although Blackbird is unarmed except in its [[Resurrection Ship, Part II|final mission]].
*"[[The Captain's Hand]]": As Starbuck leads ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus's]]'' [[Viper Mark VII|Viper Mk VIIs]] into combat, a cockpit shot of her mistakenly shows [[Viper Mark II|Viper Mk IIs]] around her ship.
*"[[Crossroads, Part II]]":
** Lee Adama's Viper Mark VII is identified as 2220NC, or [[Viper 2220 (Mark VII)|Viper 2220]]. However, [[Viper 2220]] has already been established as a Viper Mark II, not a Mark VII, which has seen multiple appearances as Adama's Viper throughout Season 1.
** Further, Kara Thrace's pristine Viper does not have a nameplate. This is telling in closeups of her in her Viper's cockpit. However, this error is not present in the following episode, "[[He That Believeth In Me]]".

==Prop and Equipment Errors==
[[Image:2276gaff Mini.JPG|thumb|Major Spencer in Viper 2276 ([[Miniseries]]).]]
*[[Miniseries]]:
**An [[wikipedia:F-16 Fighting Falcon|F-16 Fighting Falcon]] is visible in a picture in Adama's quarters when he and Colonel Tigh discuss Starbuck striking Tigh. However, this could be a tribute, the F-16 is sometimes called "Viper" by its pilots.
**The Viper Mk. VII flown by Major Spencer during the first sortie ([[Miniseries]]) is still marked as "Viper 2276NC" which is the Viper flown by Captain Lee Adama to ''Galactica''.
**As [[Sharon Valerii|"Boomer" Valerii]] takes off from Caprica with the civilians in the [[Raptor]], just after [[Helo]] shoots the civilian who jumps on to the wing, the camera points to Boomer, where viewers can see in the window reflection the crane that is hoisting the Raptor mockup into the air.
**As shown in a closeup of the pilot after giving [[Laura Roslin]] the [[Case Orange]] reply, the spaceline's name on the [[Colonial One captain]]'s uniform, "Eversun," is mismatched to the spaceline name used on ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'' itself: [[Intersun]].
**When Starbuck's Viper is hit during the second sortie ("I'm all right"), her helmet is unsealed and open.
**Similarly, Lee Adama's collar is opened when he scolds her for being "beyond insane" as Thrace pushing Adama's Viper into ''Galactica's'' [[flight pod]] at the end of the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]].
*"[[33]]":
**When [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] admits that she lost the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'', her headset changes sides during the conversation.
**As Helo fires upon the Cylon Centurion that survives the detonation of an anti-personnel mine (similar to a [[Wikipedia:Claymore mine|Claymore mine]]), the first time Helo fires the pistol, it is heard to fire, but there is no accompanying visual spark from the barrel. In contrast, the second shot is accompanied by both a spark and the appropriate sound.
**After the disappearance of the ''Olympic Carrier'' in jump 238, with the timer running towards the 33 minute mark, the viewer can see that the clock is at 10 seconds. When focusing on Adama and Tigh, the viewer hears ten seconds counting off, but when the camera quick-pans to the overhead console, it reads that 3 seconds have passed.
**Before the clock reaches zero in the pre-title sequence, a wide shot of [[CIC]] is shown with Adama and Tigh standing at the central console. The timer on the screen above their heads is flashing 00:00:00.
*"[[Six Degrees of Separation]]": The special-effects group for the Re-imagined Series appear dedicated to creating computer screens, equipment and interfaces that are familiar to viewers, but aren't full counterparts to real-world Earth materials. However, the logo for NEC computer manufacturers can be seen on the monitors while [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] is working on the photograph. A similar occurrence happens in "Sacrifice".
*"[[Colonial Day]]": During the bar fight scene, [[Valance]]'s gun is shown with a silencer attached as it falls out of his briefcase, but the silencer is not present for the rest of the scene. The silencer is back when [[Valance]] is interrogated by Starbuck and Apollo.
*"[[Valley of Darkness]]": [[Kat]] finds a box of explosive rounds with only 6 shells. The shells in the container start out scattered within the box, but as the camera cuts back and forth in the scene the shells switch from organized to scattered many times.
*"[[Black Market]]": At around 42:55 in the episode, the [[w:John Fowles|John Fowles]] historical fiction/romance novel ''[[w:The French Lieutenant's Woman|The French Lieutenant's Woman]]'' appears on a shelf behind the couch in [[William Adama]]'s room, to [[Lee Adama]]'s left.
*"[[Scar]]":
**The little model plane on top of the "Top Gun" mug sported by Starbuck and Kat is actually an [[wikipedia:F/A-18 Hornet|F/A-18 Hornet]].
**When getting intimate with Apollo, the bandage on Starbuck's back moves from one side to the other. Usually, such bandages are used to cover a tattoo of a crucifix on her shoulder.
*"[[Sacrifice]]":
**When Starbuck is getting the handguns out of her case, she still has the environmental engineer's hat on. When she quickly turns around with the guns and starts firing, her hat has disappeared without explanation.
**A computer mouse (a design created by [[Wikipedia:Microsoft|Microsoft]]) is seen connected to [[Sesha Abinell]]'s laptop computer.
*"[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]": When the rescue mission returns from Caprica, [[Cavil]] (as well as probably Sharon Valerii and Karl Agathon) are carried by Raptor that is labeled with [[Racetrack]]'s name. However, Racetrack never made it to Caprica.
*"[[Exodus, Part II]]": The [[DRADIS]] displays on ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' are free of interference from the [[New Caprica]] nebula, even though it continued to be an obvious problem for both ships at the end of "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
*"[[The Passage]]": [[Raymond Lai|Raymond "Raygun" Lai]]'s name appears on ''Galactica''’s flight roster. His name previously appeared on one of the 40 year-old Viper Mk. IIs in the ''Galactica'' museum during the [[Miniseries]].
*"[[Razor]]":
** Early in the scenes with the search and rescue party in the [[Guardian basestar]], Kara Thrace can be seen with the [[Arts and Literature of the Twelve Colonies#Tattoos|tattoo]] she gets after marrying [[Samuel Anders]], an event that won't happen for months from the story's perspective. It is absent in later scenes.
**[[Kendra Shaw]] has a band-aid on the end of her right index finger throughout the episode, in both the present and in the flashback scenes. However, it seems highly unlikely that she would either still be wearing it over the course of ten months or would coincidently have to apply another one on the same part of the same finger.
* In several episodes characters wear the wrong [[Military Ranks (RDM)|rank insignia]]:
** "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]": [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] wears "lieutenant j.g." (short chevron) insignia in several scenes.
** "[[Fragged]]": [[Cally]] is wearing petty officer, 2nd class instead of crewman specialist insignia.
** "[[Home, Part I]]" and "[[Home, Part II]]": [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] wears major instead of captain insignia.
** "[[Scar]]":
*** In the first scene in the recreation room Starbuck wears lieutenant insignia despite having been promoted to captain.
*** Some of the [[nuggets]] have lieutenant insignia despite being addressed as ensigns. Apparently, the prop department had not produced the ensign insignias at that time.
** "[[The Captain's Hand]]": Apollo's insignia switch between captain and major at least once. Major is his correct rank at that time.
**"[[Hero]]": In the flashback scenes in ''Valkyrie'''s CIC, Commander Adama is wearing admiral's insignia.
**"[[Dirty Hands]]": Again, lt. j.g pins are used for the rank of ensign.
**"[[Escape Velocity]]": Saul Tigh wears admiral's insignia during the episode's teaser.

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==Dialogue Errors==
*[[Miniseries]]:
**The pronunciation of Lt. [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]]'s name frequently shifts between ''GAY-ta'' and ''GUY-ta'' during the Miniseries. Colonel Tigh regularly calls him GUY-ta while Adama vacillates between GAY-ta and GUY-ta. From "33" onward he is referred to by everyone as GAY-ta.
**Tigh exclaims "Jesus!" when shown the photo of Adama, Zak and Lee. Ron Moore has stated that this was just an ad-lib by the actor, and was never in the script, and should have been removed during editing. In fact this was removed from the "theatrical version" shown on [[Universal HD]].
** "Oh my God!" as opposed to "Gods".
***When being informed by Six of her true nature and mission, [[Gaius Baltar]] exclaims "Oh, my God!"
***Also when Caprica Six breaks the neck of the baby the mother, [[Chantara]], screeches "Oh, my God!" several times.
***[[Jackson Spencer]] also makes this mistake after the Cylon Raiders launch missiles at his disabled squadron.
***When Secretary of Education Laura Roslin informs the passengers of ''Colonial Heavy 798'' about the attack a woman reacts "Oh my God".
* "[[33]]":
** Helo states his rank as "lieutenant, junior grade" despite consistently wearing "lieutenant, senior grade" rank insignia.
** Later in the episode, when President Roslin and Dr. Baltar are discussing cutting off communications with the ''Olympic Carrier'', Baltar uses the term "radio" instead of the in-universe term of "[[wireless]]" during the conversation.
*"[[Valley of Darkness]]': When [[Lee Adama|Apollo]], [[Kat]] and others are searching the ship for weapons a [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]] turns the corner and Kat says "Jesus".
*"[[Downloaded]]": In the Miniseries, [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] claims that her parents died while she was very young, regarding the accident at [[Troy (RDM)|Troy]], which is later supported by dialogue in "[[Flesh and Bone]]". In "Downloaded" she explains that she received a gift from her mother when she left for the Fleet academy.
*"[[Hero]]": The episode places the flashback events one year prior to the [[Cylon attack]]. However, this conflicts with earlier information that Adama served on ''Galactica'' for several years, Tyrol under him for at least five years and Gaeta for three years. For more details, see [[Hero#Analysis]].
*"[[Unfinished Business]]": When Adama is down in his corner and bleeding badly, Roslin says "coagulant for the swelling, ice for the bleeding". This should be the other way around.

==Crew Visible==
*A member of the production crew, possibly a boom operator, is visible on screen in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]". He can be seen behind the damaged wall behind the display of the [[Arrow of Apollo]].
*In "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]" another camera operator can be briefly seen after the fight between Tyrol and Helo, as Tyrol walks to the Raptor to sit on its wing.

<gallery>
Image:Gaffcrew klgpII.JPG|Crew member visible in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
Image:PhoenixCrewVisible.jpg|Camera crew in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]".
</gallery>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:Lists]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Kontinuitätsfehler (RDM)]]

Talk:Launch tube (TRS)/Archive 1

2008-05-09T21:05:17Z

Dharadvani:

About the picture:
That's from "Hand of God" when Strikforce 2 is waiting in/on the freighter. But it doesn't really fit into an article about launch tubes. A good shot might be Kara in the tube from the Miniseries --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:04, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
: Good catch. I'll scrounge for a more appropriate image. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:13, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
::I have something perfect in mind, I'll upload it later tonight. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:15, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Cool. Then I won't have to do it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:21, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

== Operational Status ==
Are all the launch tubes operational now? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:21, 2 January 2007 (CST)

:Some people claim that Vipers launched for the starboard pod in "Exodus, Part II", but as far as I can see, you can't tell from the visuals whether it was the starboard or port flightpod.
:In "A Measure of Salvation" Apollo orders a Raptor to land in the starboard pod, but that doesn't have to mean that the launch tubes are operational as well. Could be, but there is no definite evidence --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:49, 2 January 2007 (CST)
:Well, as part of the decomissioning, one would probably assume that those functions were removed (after all the coils were removed from Big G as well). After all it would really suck if some kid opened the launch tube and [[Collaborators|pulled a Jammer]]... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:10, 2 January 2007 (CST)

::In the Miniseries, Tyrol says about the Vipers in the museum "Well the reactors are still hot." so I don't think the Colonials had safety at the top of the "What's a museum" list. If the tubes were disabled, it would have been easy to fix, if something important was removed, Galactica probably would have been able to get replacements at Ragnor while they were loading up on ordnance. So I'm guessing if it would be capable to repair the tubes. [[User:WZ Lawrence|WZ Lawrence]] 22:58, 3 November 2007 (CDT)

:::Hi, WZ. Since ''Galactica'' would be more versatile if it could repair both flight pods and their launch tubes, it likely would have. But the museum conversion appears to have been a very permanent matter, ripping or removing hardware for an aged battlestar with no place to find secondary parts, not even from the advanced ''Pegasus''. The term "reactors are still hot" is left to speculation as it has never been further explained. Since [[tylium]], not a nuclear reactor, propels all ships, the reactor ''might'' be a small electric generator for the [[avionics]] and other flight controls. [[Ragnar Anchorage]] was only a depot of ammo, not significant repair hardware, certainly unlikely containing resources for a 50-year-old battlestar. It's obvious that they cannot repair as they've used the starboard hangar for [[Camp Oil Slick|non-launch needs]], and the pod is left for other storage, still depressurized from "[[Scattered]]''. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:32, 4 November 2007 (CDT)

== Evidence ==
Where are the evidence for the info in the first para regarding the launch tube setup? All I've ever seen is one tube and one supervisor. --[[User:Cohnee|Cohnee]] 07:30, 8 January 2007 (CST)
:Good question. I suspect if it's legit someone may be getting their info from a sourcebook or some such. That's awfully detailed. Either way it deserves a cite of where it came from. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:44, 8 January 2007 (CST)
:The 5*8 arrangement might be derived from the spacing on the CGI model. All in all, it seems to be from something like the BSG magazine though --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:50, 8 January 2007 (CST)

== criminals/people thing ==

It's a small quibble, but I don't like using the term "criminals" since it's a value judgement. It's basically accepting the Circle's actions and ideas, and no matter their good intentions, their means are highly questionable. Jury, judge and executioner in one person. Gaeta was convicted, but he certainly wasn't a criminal. And not all of their victims might have been guilty to the same degree. So saying something like "people" or "accused" is less POV IMO. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:43, 8 January 2007 (CST)

:From a purely objective point of view, "criminals" is a perfect term. They were convicted of commiting a crime. Definitionally, that makes them criminals. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:02, 8 January 2007 (CST)
::Convicted by whom? A biased "court" that wasn't really legal itself. Nothing objective about that. By your definition, political dissidents in - let's say China - are ''objectively'' criminals. It's a POV thing, and there are certainly people who agree with the Circle. No problem; we don't really don't need to discuss that in all its depth here. "Convicts" looks better and should satisfy both sides of the issue --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:18, 8 January 2007 (CST)
:::The Circle was a legal court appointed by the legally appointed sitting President. But you do have a point, convicts wraps this whole dealie up quite nicely, nice edit SV :-) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:32, 8 January 2007 (CST)
::::Well, as said a huge argument isn's worth it here, but a tribunal that acts as judge, jury and executioner, is very biased because of its experiences (an impartial tribunal would have consisted of people who weren't on NC), deals with whole cases within minutes, tries people in absentia without representation, and also acts in secret, isn't perfectly legal. Not from what we've seen of Colonial law. Semi-legal maybe. And I think Zarek knew that well. I'm not saying all collaborators are innocent or don't deserve some punishment, but not like that. Let's just agree to disagree. :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:41, 8 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Agreeing to disagree is a god idea, but I do feel the need to kinda dispute one thing - a tribunal of only non-NC fleet members would be too out-of-touch, true impartiality would be half NC, half non-NC. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:04, 8 January 2007 (CST)
::::::Well, we could use the same words, but throw in the old scarequotes trick. "and venting the 'convicts' to space" or "and venting the 'convicted' to space". I was just trying to specify that the people being vented were the ones that the Circle did "try, convict and sentence", not necessarily indicate either way the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of the "court". I have to admit I missed the note here and my initial edit was just an attempt to make "criminals" more neutral (for the reasons you outlined above). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 06:54, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:::::::I like the use of convicts, so barring no objections I'd say to keep it how it is. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 07:59, 9 January 2007 (CST)

== Page name ==

The page name should be singular. I suggest a move to "Launch tube (RDM)". Any thoughts? --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]]•[[User talk:Kevin W.|So say we all]] 13:46, 14 January 2007 (CST)
:I don't know. Technically you might be right, but I think they are usually referred to in the plural. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:44, 14 January 2007 (CST)
::Still, naming conventions state than even when something is commonly mentioned in the plural, the article title itself should be singular. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]]•[[User talk:Kevin W.|So say we all]] 16:12, 14 January 2007 (CST)
:::You are right. This should be changed imo. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 05:15, 18 January 2007 (CST)
::::I concur with Kevin W. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:02, 18 January 2007 (CST)

== Physical Configuration? ==
Has anyone figured out how the launch tubes fit within the model clearly shown on screen? Vipers are shown launching through transverse-mounted tubes at least 100m long, though the flight pod configuration clearly places the hangar deck at the outer edges of the ship (essentially direct in the place where the launch tubes supposedly are). The flight pods themselves are not wide enough for the launch tubes and definitely aren't wide enough to load Vipers AND show long tubes. Theories? -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 21:05, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

== A Day in the Life ==

Even though they used the launch tube set, this is not supposed to be a launch tube. The outer door is just that, a small door. Look when they blow it. Moreover, it's not even in the flightpod, but in the mainhull above the pod, facing aft. Above the launch bay opening when the pod would be retracted. Nicely visible at 29:15. So I don't think there should be any references to airlocks here, except maybe a cinematic note about the set (though it makes sense that the battlestar builders would use the same design for both instead of inventing something new). --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:00, 19 February 2007 (CST)
: Agreed. This wasn't the launch tube, though comprised of similar sets. (Also, the thing I found interesting is that no one found someone's one-year old lunch that Seelix found in this episode, with the whole food-shortage issue that occurred previously...) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:29, 19 February 2007 (CST)