Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Day

2006-08-21T19:46:13Z

Day: /* A wonderful 4X game! */

''Conversations in the period of 29 Aug 2005 to 15 Feb 2006 have been [[User talk:Day/archive01|archived]].''

== Deletion Log Entry ==
Hooray! A search of the deletion log for user Day returns:
* 16:18, 16 February 2006 Day deleted "Image:Litmus2.jpg" (Redundant image.)
It has begun! Still no entries in the block log yet, but Spence and I don't either. Probably because of our intimidation factor. (Or maybe because I was sleeping on the job while Peter or Joe was actually looking after the place.) Congrats on the first delete! (And many more...) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:35, 16 February 2006 (EST)

: Block log? Man... Does this admin bit come with a fraking manual? "Of course not. That would be too logical." *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:56, 17 February 2006 (EST)

== Congrats ==

Just wanted to say Congratulations on your engagement. Best wishes! -- [[User:Laineylain|Laineylain]] 11:47, 14 March 2006 (CST)

: Thanks much. We're, perhaps obviously, pretty excited about it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:05, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::Just saw the announcement of your engagement and I too wanted to congratulate you. --Zareck Rocks 14:23, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:::Same here, congratulations. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:47, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== You desillifier :P ==

Party pooper. I thought that caption brought much levity to the article. :P

Bleh, I knew it wouldn't last. :)--[[User:Kross|Kross]] 14:29, 14 March 2006 (CST)

: We like to keep levity pretty [[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game|segregated]] from the rest of the wiki. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:05, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== All your fault ==

Dang you, Day.. all day I've been pondering a new game.. Battlestar Marathon.
All your fault... All of it. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]]

: Heh. A Marine-based Mod? Or maybe the Resistance? Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::Reskin the Pfhor/S'pht to be centurions (oldschool and newschool, respectively), assimilated Bobs become Agents, maps of Galactica & assorted other vessiles/locales... All your fault, Day... all your fault... *goes to play in pfhorge* --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 21:29, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== Check GMail; I can't get it! ==
Now it works.. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:17, 19 March 2006 (CST)

== Mistake on my part ==

I was moving a template and must have had the old version. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:47, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

: No worries. You use an outside editor, then? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 02:49, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

== Non-weapon guns ==
You know... like tasers, and bean bag rounds. Oh. Those are non-lethal (or less-lethal) weapons. Hmmm. Squirt guns, or cap guns/starter guns would be example of non-weapon guns. Though, I doubt Raiders are equipped with cap guns (as the odds of them getting caught up in a pickup game of cops and robbers or cowboys and indians out in space is probably pretty poor). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:34, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

: Maybe Raiders all use [[Wikipedia:Airsoft|Airsoft]]. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:32, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

== Sindar translation ==
I recalled that you have some experience with the Sindar language. I was trying to come up with a translation, but was falling short. I'm looking to have a name (for a rifle) that means "Prairie dog killer". Dog is easy (hû), killer might easily be circumlocuted to death (gûr n., gurth n., guruth n., guruthos n., gwanath n., gwanu n.), but prarie has me stumped. I tried plains, meadow (from the latin roots) and finally found grassland (grassland nan n., parth n). But... how does it all string together (correctly)? nanhûgurth? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:12, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

:For plains you should use "''Talath''", noun, Sindarin for "plain". -lad (as in "Dagorlad") is a suffix and difficult to manipulate as such, but more importantly it means "plain/valley" while ''talath'' means plains proper. I'd have used the ending -crist (something like "Praire Dog Cleaver") but that's not appropriate for a rifle).----->"''Gurth an yrch''" means "Death to the Orcs" (from one of the History of Middle-earth supplement books), ''talath'' isn't a suffix, it's a stand alone word, while ''hû'' is a word root but not a full word; it would need a suffix linked to it (but "Hulad" would be kind of inaccurate, see above). Actually, "Huan" literally means simply "hound" (the an is just added to make it a complete word). ----->So a name for such a rifle, (not so much a name as a slogan, but hey guns can be named "Death from Above" or "Vae Victus", not just "Charlene"), would be "'''''Gurth An Talath Huan'''''" = "Death to the Plains (Praire) Hounds". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:07, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
::That's great! Thanks, Merv! Talath fits "prairie" better than grassland. And you're right about the flexible naming. And I suppose it's pretty academic anyway as the intended targets can't read Tengwar and won't be close enough to read it if they could. However, good weapons do have names. "Cleaver" might actually work for a larger caliber rifle (but that might be a bit too gory of imagery for some). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:21, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

::: You also might consider a simple genetive relationship (i.e. your weapon is the "death of prariedogs"). In that case, you could let word order determine it, and shorten the name a bit. Assuming you guys did good vocab research (which is just to say I've not doulbe-checked you), you might do "Gurth Talath Huan". Or, following the example of some Elven names, you could make the phrase a name by hyphenation: Gurth-Talath-Huan. I'd be wary of just slamming the words together, though (this works sometimes, but only sometimes) as Gurthtalathhuan is... unwieldy. I wonder, though, if "Talath Huan" shouldn't have some kind of mutation to make it properly a compound word. I'll have to think on this. Similarly "huan" is singluar. I assume you want plural, which would be... maybe, "hyain"? That looks wrong to me. Bears further research. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:58, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Okay. Done some research. I disagree with Merv that ''hû'' is not a word proper. I think it's simply a mono-syllable. Thus, the plural would be ''hŷ'' ("y" in this case not being the consonant we know in English, but the high, front, rounded vowel from Old English represented in the IPA by the same letter). I concur with ''talath'' being the best bet for "prarie" and ''gurth'' for "death".

::: Also, turns out we should be looking at lentiion for our compound word. So if "prarie" + "dog" = "prariedog" then ''talath'' + ''hû'' = ''talath-chú'' (notice that "ch" in this case is not as in "church" but as in "Bach" with actual German pronunciation). If you wanted to get rid of the hyphen (as I have an inclination to do), I think your best bet would be to render it as ''talachú''. That's a little more speculation than I'd be comfortable with if this were some kind of academic paper (which I've written on the subject), but for your purposes I think it is fine. The plural, then, of ''talachú'' would be ''telechý'' which is just ''full'' of sounds I love (IPA [x] and [y]).

::: The circumflex over ''hû'' simply denotes vowel lenth (as in amount of time spent saying it) and in monosyllables, what would otherwise be a long vowel (twice normal duration) becomes even stronger (three times normal duration). The accent in ''talachú'' is the denotion of that doulbe-duration, as opposed to the tripple-duration mentioned above.

::: In conclusion, I think you want ''Gurth-Telechý'' for "Death of Prariedogs" or, if you prefer the prepositional way Merv suggested, it could be ''Gurth a Thelechý'' for "Death to Prariedogs!" Now, one last note... If you wanted it to be "''The'' Death of Prariedogs" (i.e. to translate the article as well), you'd want ''I 'Urth Telechý'' as the article, there, causes lenition, as well. Lemme know if you want links to some of the resources I trust/rely on. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 15:33, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
::::Something like:
::::Shorter is likely better, and I'd prefer the "title" to the "motto". I still have no idea how I'd get tengwar onto the stock, but it isn't a pressing issue as inventory issues have pushed back the arrival of the weapon anyway. Thanks for your help, guys. I was watching the appendix discs of LOTR last night, and when they had the "Tolkien Linguist" on, I thought of you guys. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:11, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::::[[image:gurth-telechy.png|right]] David Salo? I think that's the name, anyway. I exchanged a few emails with him once. He seemed to be a really nice guy. And, how the Tengwar look depends on the mode. I think you're wanting to use the [http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/tengwar/sindar.htm Sindarin "classical" mode], based on how you rendered your vowels. In which case, you want: "anga, rómen (w/ open-left curl), thúle" then "tinco, lambe (w/ acute accent), harma? (w/ acute accent), long stem with two dots above" (see right). --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 08:03, 13 July 2006 (CDT)
::::::I am (and remain) out of my depth in this language. Learning a new character set has always scared me. I generated my tengwar example using [http://tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/start.php this site], which, knowing the past record of computer translation I guess I wasn't surprised that corrections would be needed. (Of course, by checking here first, I realized that I would likely be corrected if necessary.) I've saved your example for future potential use. Hopefully I can find some method whereby I can print it on an inkjet and transfer it. At the very least I'd want to trace it. I have little confidence in my ability to hand-draw english, let alone another character set. Thanks again! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::::: Now that's a cool site. And... I have no idea how you got that it gave you. I typed "gurth-telechý" into its first box, selected "sindarin classic" below and "png" then hit go. The only difference is, it knew better than me how to render ''ch'', which should apparently have the little hat on the loop, not be open. I've uploaded a corrected version above. You have to look really closely to see that the final diacritical mark is two dots, not a short line. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 13:43, 13 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::::My "input mode" had been set to "English" I think. It should have been "Sindarin classic". Oh, and the site will start in English if you go to [http://tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/start.php?l=en this one]. I don't think I even read the labels (whether they were in Polish or English) which may have led to my confusion.--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:02, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

== A wonderful 4X game! ==

I should've posted about this earlier, but it didn't occur to me. [http://www.swordofthestars.com/ Sword of the Stars] is an amazing [[Wikipedia:4X|4X]] game. The demo is out and it's due to be released on 22 August. I highly reccommend it. I won't go into all the details here, but the [http://sots.rorschach.net/Main_Page SotS Wiki] has a ton of information as does the forums of game site. The developers are really active on the forums for answering questions, etc. Go check it out. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 16:16, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:It looks positively delightful; I love games that make me nearly fail classes, even if I prefer to keep it nearly. I think I'll just pretend I'm brushing up on graph theory. I can't imagine you don't know about it, but [http://www.galciv2.com Galactic Civilizations II] is beautiful (...post patches, as for most PC games). --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:44, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
::Galciv II also benefitted from extremely developers, who participate in their forums as well as one of them leading the effort at a Galciv Wiki over at wikia. I never really go too into the game myself, but I was impressed at the quick turnaround on some of the patches. They've mentioned Sword over at PennyArcade. I may have the wife check it out, though she generally is content with just conquering this world (via Civ IV). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:45, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
:::The Stardock people are great; they [http://forums.galciv2.com/?forumid=274&aid=115413 fixed a bug I noticed] inside of 48 hours. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 15:15, 15 August 2006 (CDT)

:::: I was never impressed with the GalCiv franchise. The combat is not very fun, the races are uninspired, I have to micromanage my planets by telling them what buildings to build where and the research didn't ever seem to make me excited. The 2D universe and grid-based map really turned me off as well. I understand that a lot of people are having a lot of fun with it. And more power to them. Just not for me. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 14:46, 21 August 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki:Chiefs' noticeboard

2006-08-15T04:47:58Z

Day: Mark as Read

{{Project|Admin Noticeboard|image=BSG WIKI Postit.png|shortcut=BW:AN}}

This noticeboard is a location to discuss and coordinate administrative tasks for the Battlestar Wiki.

It is my hope that this place can serve as a location for administrators to coordinate their efforts on the maintenance tasks of the Wiki (it's not ALL fun and games), as well as a spot for our contributors to be able to bring things to the attention of the admins if something needs to be done. Need a protected page edited? An article or picture deleted? Admins will watchlist this page so that your request won't get lost in the shuffle.

These are the archives:
{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 01
| number = 1
| items = {{archive-item|01|General}} {{archive-item|01|David Larson Screen Capture}} {{archive-item|01|Home, Part II}} {{archive-item|01|Toaster revision}} {{archive-item|01|Billy}} {{archive-item|01|Spam Alert}} {{archive-item|01|SPAMER ALERT}} {{archive-item|01|Constant Vigilance}} {{archive-item|01|Amazon referral links}} {{archive-item|01|Spoiler policy}} {{archive-item|01|Another spammer}} {{archive-item|01|IRC Channel Open}} {{archive-item|01|Jon Doe|end=Y}}
|}}

<div style="margin: 0 2em; border: 1px dashed #461919; padding: 3px; text-align: center">
'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|action=edit&section=new}} Ask a new question by clicking here.]'''
</div>

== Current Administrators ==
===Bureaucrats===
Bureaucrats are administrators who have the ability to make other users into administrators. Currently only [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] has this status.
===Sysops===
Sysops are administrators who have access to move, delete and restore pages as well as blocking malicious users. The current administrators are:
*[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]
*[[User:Day|Day]]
*[[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]]
*[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]]
*[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]]
*[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]
*[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]]

See [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators|list of all admins on Battlestar Wiki]]

== Javascript Reported Vandals ==

==Battle Template==
Me and Shane have been working on a template with aim to replace the individual wikitables on the battle pages Merv created. I was hoping I would get some feedback from you on the appearance etc.
The testing area is [[User:Mercifull/Battle template|here]] and you can see the actual template at {{tl|Battle Data}} --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 13:49, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
:I left a note at [[Template talk:Battle Data]]. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 14:24, 21 June 2006 (CDT)4

==Inadvertent Deletions==

I have inadvertently save over another's edit 2 0r 3 times (RFA for Merciful) in the last 2 days . I thought that the wiki prevented that automatically. Is it because I talking so longer to edit sometimes? Or is there a problem. Just don't want to keeping doing it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 14:03, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
:I think this happens when two people are editing the same page, always preview your work before posting to make sure you havnt made a major fubar. I recently did it on the ships page cutting off half the page lol and if i had previwed i wouldnt have messed it up hehe. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 14:05, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
::Thanks, I usually preview, but will make sure that I do in the future.--[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 14:08, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
:::Steel re-added the vote, so no problem there. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:13, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
::::It also helps to only edit a section (not the whole article) when possible; this limits how much teeth gnashing you have to do as you repaste your contribution. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:25, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
:::::For the record, that can't happen on an RFA due to it's design. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:00, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

== Unlock the [[BW:SC]] Archives ==

I am going around to most of the pages that are getting to long and making archives to keep the content clean and the [[BW:SC]] archives are protected and ''[[BW:RFA#Shane|I]]'' can not edit them. So can someone unlock them for me. They do not have to be locked up as items would have to be removed if the same issue arised in the future. Thanks. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:35, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

: I'm confused... You want to archive the archives, or...? Maybe a link to the specific page you're wanting archived. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:25, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

:: Just the old archived pages. It's already been done. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:55, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

::: Okay. I thought so... That's what had confused me. They didn't look locked to me. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:52, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

==Request that User "Shane" be given a warning ban==

Per the discussion on "[[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for comment/Shane]]",

Per our banning policy:

:"The Battlestar Wiki community, taking decisions according to appropriate community-designed policies with consensus support, following consensus on the case itself.
# The Administrators can impose a parole whereby any sysop can, at their judgement, impose a 24-hr temp ban for a violation of the parole, even though this offence would not normally be a bannable offence."

Per the Appeals Process for banning (my italics):

:"Community-derived bans may be appealed to Joe Beaudoin via a ''request for arbitration''. Joe will decide such a case based on whether the ban followed a genuine Battlestar Wiki policy, whether the procedures were correctly followed, and whether the ban was consistent with other Battlestar Wiki policies.

I'm formally requesting the Administrators and specifically sysop/Bureaucrat Joe Beaudoin, to, as per the suggestons in the RFC linked above, give user Shane a warning ban of one week, followed by the standard probatationary period of one month. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:03, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:I think this process is already underway. The appropriate place for other administrators to weigh in on the decision is still the RFC. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:12, 25 June 2006 (CDT)
::The "[[Battlestar_Wiki:Banning_policy|Ban]]" Policy is not even "Official". It's {{tl|Proposed Policy}} --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:13, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

Given that Shane has apparently agreed with the results of his RFC to take a 7 day vacation, this proposal is a moot point. Nevermind. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:47, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Vandel ==

I can not sit idlily by and watch this vandel mess up the site. I am taking action to revert the pages. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:40, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

==Report on Vandalism by [[User:Mickey McGizzle]]==

===Summary of Events===

On 18:42, 28 June 2006, [[User:Mickey McGizzle|Mickey McGizzle]] joined Battlestar Wiki. He immediately initiated a series of attacks against several articles. These consisted of blanking the original content, which was replaced with a short string of nonsense, and quickly moving articles from one name to another, generating a massive number of redirects.

At 18:57, [[User:Kkimball|Kkimball]] took notice and posted a [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=User:Mickey_McGizzle&diff=prev&oldid=62022 comment] to McGizzle's user page.

At 19:00, Kkimball restored the contents of [[Battlestar Wiki:Cast and Crew]] (at that time located at "Cwap"). At 19:04, he restored the contents of [[Battlestar Wiki:Human Census Survey]], which had not been moved. At 19:24, he restored the contents of [[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game]], (at that time located at "The Land of Seventeen Guatemalens") and attempted to return it to its original namespace by moving it to "A Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game".

Immediately after Kkimball's edits, McGizzle renewed his attack on the Drinking Game, and retaliated with an attack on Kkimball's user page.

At 20:40, 28 June 2006, [[User:Shane|Shane]], currently banned from editing on an informal basis, posted a notice to [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques]], due to an error on [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard]], which he corrected at 20:41. At 20:42, I reverted his comments to Official Communiques, and at 22:19, I moved his comment to the Administrators' noticeboard. It is my opinion that due to the extraordinary circumstances at work, Shane's actions were not in violation of the terms of his ban as set forth in [[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for comment/Shane]].

Immediately after his post to Official Communiques, Shane notified me of the attack via GMail. On 20:42, 28 June 2006, I banned Mickey McGizzle with an expiry time of infinite, and set to work on repairs. By 21:34, all the attacked articles had been restored and moved back to their original locations. By 22:04, all spurious redirects had been deleted.

During this time, [[User:The Merovingian]] attempted to help by tagging several redirects for deletion.

===Analysis===
====Damage====
*Mickey McGizzle was able to actively vandalize Battlestar Wiki for exactly two hours.
*He attacked a total of fourteen articles:
**[[Galactica Discovers Earth (Book)]]
**[[Sparto Relamia]]
**[[Galactica (RDM)]]
**[[Battlestar Wiki:Human Census Survey]]
**[[Battlestar Wiki:Cast and Crew]]
**[[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game]]
**[[Battlestar Galactica]]
**[[User:Kkimball]]
**[[Battlestar Wiki:News]]
**[[Battlestar Wiki:Translation Project]]
**[[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project]]
**[[Battlestar Wiki:Project List]]
**[[Battlestar Wiki:Community Portal]]
**[[Battlestar Wiki:Site support]]
*He generated over 200 redirects.
*The Wiki remained vandalized for 52 minutes after Mickey McGizzle was banned. Deletion of all redirects took 1 hour and 22 minutes.

====Response Time====

*[[User:Kkimball|Kkimball]] first noticed the attack 15 minutes after it commenced, but he failed or was unable to report it to an Administrator.
*[[User:Kkimball|Kkimball]]'s attempts to combat McGizzle's vandalism on his own were ineffectual.
*[[User:Shane|Shane]] noticed the attack 1 hour and 58 minutes after it commenced, and notified me. If he had not done so, the damage would undoubtedly have been much worse.

====Threat Assessment====
McGizzle's personal response to Kkimball ([http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=User%3AKkimball&diff=62108&oldid=33060 replying] to a [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=User:Mickey_McGizzle&diff=prev&oldid=62022 comment] on his user page, and subsequently moving Kkimball's user page to "Fatass") clearly indicates that he is not a bot, of the variety we've occasionally seen depositing link span. That a human being was able to cause so much damage raises serious concerns over automated agents using the same techniques.

McGizzle's vandalism method is extremely time consuming to revert. Vandalized articles must be identified from a large number of move log entries, then followed to their final destination, reverted, and returned to their original locations. This took an average of 3 minutes and 42 seconds per article. Following this, an enormous number of redirects must be deleted. This is tedious and inconveniently floods [[Special:Recentchanges|recent changes]], but the presence of redirects does not directly harm the usability of the wiki.

===Recommendations===

I recommend that the ability to move pages be restricted to administrators, and, if possible, other trusted users. I understand that current versions of MediaWiki allow a distinction to be made between newly registered users and old hands; if it would be possible to implement such a thing here, that would be ideal.

Straightforward vandalism would still be possible, but it is much easier to revert than the redirect technique.

The fact that it took two hours for an administrator to be notified of the attack is extremely disturbing. Hopefully Mercifull's election as an Admin will enable more round-the-clock surveillance, but Kkimball's attempt to revert McGizzle's edits personally, rather than contact an Admin is disappointing. Presumably, it simply didn't occur to him. Perhaps contact information for admins should be consolidated in another location besides user pages, to which a link could be included in the welcome greeting.

[[Star of Kobol|Stars of Kobol]] should be awarded to [[User:Kkimball|Kkimball]], [[User:Shane|Shane]] and [[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] for their valiant efforts to stop McGizzle's rampage.

--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:15, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:Its a shame this has happened, at a time when some people were contemplating opening the wiki to guests I feel that we cannot ever do this now. For every minute this mailicious user was here he caused 3 minutes of time to fix. I have a few suggestions however i am unsure if they can be implemented:
#Make it so only administrators can move/rename a page. While this wouldnt stop someone manually making a new page and then adding a redirect to the old one it would certainly slow them down.
#Edit limit for new users. I'm not sure if this can be done with MediaWiki but is it possible to limit the number of edits per hour/day for new users?
#Limit on the number of "New" pages that newly signed up users can make.
#Wikipedia runs some bots that look for these kinds of mass changes by users and reverts them and blocks the user. Is that kind of thing possible here?
#Make it so pages cannot be blanked... minimum number of characters for example.
:Just a few ideas. I think its something that needs to be discussed in detail fairly soon. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:14, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
:I also think that with users such as this blocking just isnt enough. These kinds of people need to be [http://www.javascriptkit.com/howto/htaccess5.shtml completely banned] from the site using .htaccess --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:27, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
::The timing of this is extremely unfortunate. The type of vandalism involved is something we have never see here at this wiki. Previously all vandalism has been either a direct personal attack (user pages, etc.) or more commercial in nature (editing pages to include invisible spam links). This is the first time that I am aware of that an individual has committed vandalism solely for what appears to be their own amusement. While the thought of this type of attack had been considered (it wasn't "inconceivable"), I imagine we all thought it unlikely as no such attack had occured for so long (even when we had less restrictive login requirements).

::In the "Recent Changes" banner, there is text that states that "If you find any vandalism or edits that need to be brought to the attention of an admin, report it here." (With a link to the admin noticeboard.) Unfortunately that might not be read/paid attention to much. Also, while the noticeboard IS on my watchlist, it won't generate an email notice like a note on a user page would. I definitely concur that some research should go towards improving accessibility to Admins and educating editors about who should be contacted in the case of an emergency (like this one).

::I agree that an attack of this magnitude merits an evaluation of our security protocols. (Would such a discussion be best suited here? The Quorum?) I would like to urge that we not be too hasty in locking things down, though, and should perhaps let the sting of this attack subside somewhat before any security decisions are finalized. If we allow this incident to harm the daily experience of our average editors, then this "terrorist" will have had more impact on this world than they deserve to have made.

::Lastly, I second the call for a commendation of [[User:Kkimball|Kkimball]], [[User:Shane|Shane]] and [[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]]. Dedicated editors like them are what keep this place running. I concur that this incident should have no bearing on Shane's RFC-imposed "vacation". While he is obviously still checking up on the place, he prevented a great deal more work through his timely contacting of an administrator. I would also like to thank [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] for his diligence in dispatching and cleaning up after the vandal. It might be a good idea to work out a protocol for distributing vandal cleanup work amongst administrators, in the event more than one is active or in the event of a larger attack. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:13, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks for your kind words, guys, though I'd like to apologize. Though my immediate thought was to contact an admin, the user page didn't occur to me as I haven't used the mediawiki software in a peroid of several months previous to my return last night. I'm afraid my attempts to restore the content were somewhat feeble, but I'm glad this could all be fixed relatively simply (if not quickly). [[User:Kkimball|Kkimball]] 08:39, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

::I would agree to an open discussion on the issue of "wiki security", for lack of a better term. It would probably be best to discuss it on the Quorum so that all users can put in their two cubits. I know we've just recently brought up on [[Talk:Main Page]] about how we can lessen our editing restrictions, so I would really like that discussion to coincide with the "wiki security" one because, at the end of the day, they are both the same. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:40, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:::(Damn if wasn't able to be on at the time to help; I finally have some success in getting a new job, which took most of yesterday.) I concur with the "trusted users" limiting. I think that no user with less than 100 edits can move articles. Gives plenty of time for newbies to get used to things without messing up badly, and keeps what happened from happening again in such severity. New users with less than 100 edits could be limited to 5 edits per hour; after 50 edits, 10 edits/hr, and no limit (and privileges to move articles) after 100 edits. That might also help against any bots used to attempt to circumvent the process. Kudos to the three who tried to fix the damage!--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:57, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

I agree that Shane should not be punished, special circumstances. I'm sorry I didn't notice earlier, but I have to sleep sometime :) Ironically, before logging out the last thing I saw was that a new user named McGizzle had joined, and was annoyed that I logged out without giving him the big hello. Yikes. Well, ---->This event has caused me to change my position on allowing unregistered users. There are those that hate TNS enough that they would smash BSWiki to atoms if they could. I propose voting Joe emergency powers, and creating a Grand Army of BattlestarWiki to counter the increasing threats of the Vandals. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:01, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

: As a precautionary measure, I have prevented all users, with the execption of administrators, from moving pages. To request a move, please post your move notice here. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:07, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

::If anyone hadn't looked at the speed and frequency of the edits, I strongly suspect that the user was using some kind of bot to make the changes; I know I can't edit that fast.

::Move requests might get lost here in current format. Create a "Move" section where requests are better found? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:19, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

::: Great thing you mention this, because guess what's going to go through the [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank|Think Tank]] first? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:40, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Shane's RFC and the Think Tank ==

[[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for comment/Shane|The RFC]] on Shane has been officially closed. As I noted on Shane's talk page, his vacation begins on Friday, June 30th at 12:01 A.M. UTC and will officially end on July 7 at 12:01 A.M. UTC. As decided in the RFC, he's not officially blocked, unless he makes any edits during his vacation from the wiki.

Should '''that''' happen, I will officially do the blocking. I request that no other administrator do this action.

Now that Shane is on his vacation, the question of who will be willing to keep an eye on his contributions needs to be addressed. Peter is exempt from this due to the friction between them.

Also, as mentioned in the RFC, I will be creating the [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank|Think Tank]]. I would welcome everyone to help build this while Shane is on vacation. This is where all the major stuff will happen, and that "major stuff" is to be determined by the consensus of the administrators, per Day's points.

Now, if there are any questions, please ask away. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:49, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:I'll keep an eye on Shane's contributions and note on your talk page if there's a change that's against his parole. (I look like a bouncer, anyway.) Shane can take heart; Lee Adama was put in the brig once, but look what [[Pegasus (RDM)|happened]] to him. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:03, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:: Yes, but you do it with style ... and I have no doubt that the Jedi mind tricks are helpful as well. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:42, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

: I have the ''will' to keep an eye on Shane edits, but I'm not certain I have the ability. I go a few days without looking at the Wiki on occasion and sometimes I don't have much time for it when I do get a look. Also, in August, I'll be moving (yay!), which means I will have various things to prepare before then. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, if you need me, I'll do my best, but I'm making no promises. *wink* Maybe someone else will step up like Spence and make the full time commitment. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:44, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

==Problem with mail validation==
In my preferences in the '''email''' section it say that "Your e-mail address is not yet authenticated. No e-mail will be sent for any of the following features." with a link to [[Special:Confirmemail|Confirm your e-mail address]]. When I click this I push a button to mail out a validation code but I never recieve one. I have tried several times and checked my spam box but still nothing. Because my email is not validated I cannot set it up to send me notices on changed etc. Does anyone know how to fix this? My email is correct in the '''user profile''' box. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 06:04, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

:I've had this happen, too, earlier in the year when I had to use public terminals. Joe should know how to fix it. Place a note on his talk page to ensure he knows, and leave the email address you prefer to use. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:23, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

:The problem is in the emailserver. I administer several mailservers in various locations. And I've seen what is wrong. The emailserver that battlestarwiki.org (BSW) use to send us emails are not configured properly. BSW's "HELO" says it is a mailserver who's hostname does not exist. The hostname reported in BSW's HELO '''vps.battlestarwiki.org''' does not exist. Therefore all emails from BSW's outgoing emailserver will automatically be rejected by our mailservers as SPAM or fraudulent in some way. (SPAM bots always use false and non-existent HELO's)

:Most likely [http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#myhostname "myhostname"] and/or [http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#smtpd_banner "smtp_banner"] (for [http://www.postfix.org/ postfix] servers) in BSW's email configuration is wrong or someone forgot to add the A/CNAME record. --[[User:Solbu|Solbu]] 07:02, 13 August 2006 (CDT)

:: I added the record. See if it works now. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:09, 13 August 2006 (CDT)

==VandalBot Feature==
I was scanning administrator help pages on Wikipedia when I stumbled onto [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Vandalbot the Vandalbot feature in MediaWiki]. This apparently allows an admin to use a bot to automatically rollback ALL user contributions. If we could have used this for the last horrific attack, it could have saved some time. Is this something we have available or can use? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:22, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

Oh, and [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Edit_throttling Edit throttling] is a topic in Wikimedia to explore in regards to limiting edits per hour. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:31, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
:The Vandalbot feature seems interesting. To roll back all edits by a specific user would be an impressive tool to have in the box agaisnt vandals and spammers. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:50, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
::It wouldn't have helped much in this case. The majority of the work came from tracking down final page locations and deleting redirects. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:02, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
:This rollback tool is good, but I don't think we should limit the number of edits a user can make per hour. Several of our regualrs, when on a roll the night an episode airs, post as fast as he did in that attaack, so we shouldn't limit that. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:50, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
::I agree. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:02, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
:I don't fully agree with edit-throttling. I will look into installing the VandalBot, however, as I have a feeling that this will be a good tool for us. (Unfortunately.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:54, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

== July 8 Vandalism ==

I've permanently blocked a user who spammed this board early this morning. I've removed the content (see history). There wasn't much, but just enough for me not to wait to see someone create new work for anyone. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:09, 8 July 2006 (CDT)

== Adminoticeboard ==

Also, a new member [[Adminoticeboard]], vandalism threat? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 06:02, 8 July 2006 (CDT)

:I'll block him if warranted. It is an odd account name to have, but sticks and stones... ---[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:09, 8 July 2006 (CDT)
::I would also be tempted to block this user. It should be a rule so as not to impersonate other users or admistrators of this wiki. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:23, 8 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Thinking it over (in my pre-caffienated haze), I concur on your block. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:37, 8 July 2006 (CDT)

== Possible Vandalism ==

Some wierd stuff going on. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 06:07, 8 July 2006 (CDT)
:Those users are now blocked. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:25, 8 July 2006 (CDT)
::Looks like that it could have been a "fishing" expedition. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:20, 8 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vandel ==

There is vandel. Need blockage. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:24, 15 July 2006 (CDT)
:Thanks Steel. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:38, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

== Search ==

Either I'm crazy or something is wrong with the search function. When I tried to searched "Quotes" it search "Main". --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:06, 30 July 2006 (CDT)

:It worked correctly for me just now with the arbitrarily selected sample queries "today", "magic pills", and "starbuck". I'd note that the main namespace is checked by default; perhaps you simply forgot to uncheck it? --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:17, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

::Tested it also. Didn't see any problems. I search all the sections by default. (Not the talk pages) Check your preferences. There is a new preference in which I just noticed also called <tt>List redirects</tt> which is neat cause then we can find stuff to fix redirects. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:21, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
:::In the preferences you can set what namespaces you can search on by default. Its really useful --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:40, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::::As soon as I posted this it started working again. Ok, who is messing with me ;-). Honestly, for it didn't work for some time, while I was working on quotes yesterday. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 07:42, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::It's alright we believe you *pats on head* lol --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:49, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::::::Thanks, I need all the pats I can get (even for being DUH!) :D --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 07:56, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

== How do you sign up to be a mirror? ==

Hey all, I'm the webmaster of bsgtns.com and one of the owners of MediaBlvd. We think this is a pretty cool thing that you have here, and would like to offer up some server space for a mirror. MB has 6 high end servers, and good deals on bandwidth. I might be missing how to go about that, as I'm fairly new to this space. I did want to say that I really like the concept though, and I spent several hours going thru the Wiki yesterday, and liked what I saw enough to want to be involved-- NetRanger
:[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|talk to joe]]. I think usually the mirror deals with running the software of mediawiki and one site having access to the other and vice-versa. Joe is currently sick. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:12, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
:[[BW:MIR]] is the basic requirements. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:18, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::AFAIK basicly a Mirror has the exact same content except when you go to edit, it takes you to the real BSWiki site? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:24, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
:::Yep. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:41, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

== Where to file feature request on MediaWiki ==
:''Moved to [[User talk:Shane]]''

== Help for Wiki Review Article ==

Admins can help in the circus I created named [[State of the Wiki II]]. I protected the article so that we can corral the talk page commentary to correct the agregious formatting, bias, lack of bias, and all other ills. This is arguably the worst article I've ever made. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:17, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

== Mark as Read ==

Did there used to be a buttton thart did this on my Watchlist? Often, I'll read a diff, rather than the actual article, but I would like it unbolded all the same. I could've sworn there used to be a button that said "Mark all articles as Visited" or something like that. Am I losing my mind, or did a recent update take that away or... what? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 23:47, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki:Featured articles/Debate for September 2006

2006-08-15T04:28:42Z

Day: /* Computers */

==Comments==

==[[Computers]]==
*{{Support}}. This page is a work of art now, thanks to everyone's additional image contributions. And, if I do say so myself, one of the finest derivations of what little technical mumbo-jumbo we can get from the show. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:58, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
*{{support}} Agree per Spenc. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:20, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
*{{support}} Yep - definitely a work of frakking art. I keep trying to find new and geeky screenshots to add to this, but i'm not a content man, just a screencapper with no life :P --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 18:37, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
*{{support}} Looks good. Cool article. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 23:28, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

==[[Cylon agent]]==

==[[Number Six]]==

User talk:Day

2006-08-14T21:16:53Z

Day: A wonderful 4X game!

User:Day

2006-08-14T21:13:18Z

Day:

{{User Data|
|photo=User_Day.jpg
|name=Ben Hamill
|age=23
|location=Texas
|email=
|gmail=iamday
|aim=NoitFi (or less commonly DayAsPrometheus)
|callsign=Day
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=Engaged
|occupation=[http://www.aaronbrothers.com Retail]
|rank=
|admin=Y
}}{| width="70%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top; background-color:#1F0B0B; margin: 1em 0; float: none;"
! style="background-color:#461919; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:100%; border:1px solid #461919; text-align:center; color:white;" |
{| style="background-color:#461919; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align:center; color:white;"
|Activity Notice
|}
|-
|I've finished my move and my new job starts soon. A comensurate inscrease in my presence here should follow.
|-
|}

Ben "Day" Hamill lives in Texas where he enjoys MUSHing, playing [http://www.guildwars.com/ Guild Wars] and watching roughly one hour of television each week. You get three guesses as to which hour.

==Personal Information==
Occasionally, Ben spends time viewing various things on DVD. In his opinion, these things don't quite count as watching television as, "it's the ads that really rot the brain. You can choose not to watch a bad show, but bad ads could be in any show, no matter how good."

Currently, Ben lives with his girlfriend of 6 years, Sara. They were engaged on 4 March 2006 and have begun planning their wedding. The date is set for 23 June, 2007. For more information, simply ask, but be prepared for a deluge of information.

Ben is a Bachelor of the Arts in Linguistics from the [http://www.utexas.edu/ University of Texas at Austin]. This is noteworthy because, apparently unbeknownst to UT, Linguistics is a ''science''. While there, Ben was a member of the [http://www.longhornband.org/ Longhorn Band] in which he played the [http://www.texastrombones.net/ Trombone].

Ben has been a member of the Battlestar Wiki since 29 August, 2005. Users who sign talk page posts, but have empty user pages irk Ben because they trigger his broken link sense needlessly.

Ben owns a [http://www.apple.com/ Mac] ([http://www.apple-history.com/body.php?page=gallery&model=g4cube&performa=off&sort=date&order=DESC G4 Cube]) named [[Wikipedia:Melchior|Melchior]], a PC (Dell with user upgrades) named [[Wikipedia:Prometheus|Prometheus]] and an [http://www.xbox.com/en-US/default.htm XBox] with no name. He is considering naming his Honda Civic something that sounds like the name of a [http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/spacemarines/catalog/spacemarines/sm_dreadnought.htm Space Marine Dreadnaught] from [[Wikipedia:Warhammer 40,000|Warhammer 40,000]], but as of yet can't think of a decent name.

Ben's favorite time is 11:11.

http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/oneseventeen.png

{| width="40%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top; background-color:#1F0B0B; margin: 1em 0; float: right;"
! style="background-color:#461919; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:100%; border:1px solid #461919; text-align:left; color:white;" |
{| style="background-color:#461919; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align:left; color:white;"
|On my iPod
|}
|-
|
<div style="padding-right: 2em;">
# [http://www.askaninja.com/ Ask a Ninja] - Ninja are cool, and this one answers questions (video).
# [http://www.hopeisemo.com/ Hope is Emo] - Emo kids are the funniest joke God ever told (video).
# [http://www.theworld.org/technology/podcasts.shtml The World's Technology Podcast] - An expanded cast by the host of [http://www.theworld.org/index.shtml The World]'s technology show (audio).
# [http://www.ttbook.org TTBOOK Podcast] ([http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/pcttbook/.jukebox?action=viewPodcast&podcastId=189 subscribe]) - A show of random cool stuff by [http://www.pri.org/index.html Public Radio International] (audio).
# [http://www.theonion.com/content/radionews The Onion Radio News] - Like skimming the Onion: Funny headlines, none of that boring "content" crap (audio).
</div>
|-
|}

==Toolbox==
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Characters|Character Project Page]] ([[Battlestar Wiki talk:Characters|Talk]])
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|Standards and Conventions]] ([[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions|Talk]])
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Quotes|Quotes Project]] ([[Battlestar Wiki talk:Quotes|Talk]])
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Featured articles|Featured Articles Project]] ([[Battlestar Wiki talk:Featured articles|Talk]])
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|Citation Jihad]] ([[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad|Talk]])
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Template List|Template List]] ([[Battlestar Wiki talk:Template List|Talk]])
* Images
*: [[Battlestar Wiki:Requested Images|Pictures I Need to Get]]
*: [[Battlestar WIki:Island of Misfit Images|The Island of Misfit Images]]
*: [[Battlestar Wiki:Image tagging policy|Image Tagging Policy]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' Noticeboard]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Portals|Portals Project]]
* [[Wikipedia:Administrators' how-to guide]]

==Non-Wiki Projects==
* '''Texas Sports Weekly'''
*: I am the web dude for [http://www.texassportsweekly.com/ Texas Sports Weekly], which is a podcast hosted by my good friend, Ross Lucksinger, which focuses primarily on sports related to the University of Texas, secondarily on sports in the state of Texas and tertiarily on professional sports in the United States. He has yet to mention a sport in another country, but I wouldn't put it past him to talk a bit about the [http://www.letour.fr/indexus.html Tour de France] or the [http://www.fifa.com/en/index.html World Cup] in their time.
* '''Nomicron'''
*: I play a [http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/nomic.htm nomic] called [http://www.nomicron.org Nomicron]. My player name there is, amazingly, Day. One of my proudest accomplishments there is that it's sort of a tradition, now, for me to design a new logo for each Round. I've done Rounds four, five and six, which has just begun. The theme of the logo doesn't ''have'' to affect how the Round turns out, but it did in an amusing way in Round five, and very well may in Round six.

==A Note on Images==
I try to use the following format for naming image files I upload. This is mostly for my own reference, though if someone wants to use this sytem, too, they're welcome to. The reason I like to include episode names is so that, when I see a picture, I might have a better idea of the context if I knew what else had been going on at the time.

''Episode_Name-Content.ext'' (ex: [[:Image:Kobols Last Gleaming pt2-Gaeta.jpg]], [[:Image:Tigh Me Up Tigh Me Down-Baltar Six.jpg]], [[:Image:Mini-Billy.jpg]], etc.)

[[Category:Wikipedians|Day]]

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Cite Templates

2006-07-24T18:10:21Z

Day: /* Vote */

== BW:Cite ==
If this goes into effect it'd mainly impact the BW:Cite page (update it to reflect the how to use the templates), and just be a matter of getting them as we see them. It seems like a good idea to me. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:16, 14 July 2006 (CDT)
: I have no problem in importing these templates from Wikipedia. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:02, 14 July 2006 (CDT)
:: I can import them now? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:18, 14 July 2006 (CDT)
::: No need to rush. Let's wait for more feedback on this from other users. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:32, 14 July 2006 (CDT)

:::: As much as I like Joe and often agree with him, he doesn't constitute consensus. I'll have to look at those templates you linked (running out the door now), but I think this is a sound idea. Making the Jihad's job easier is a Good Thing(tm) in my book. And... does anyone else feel often baffled by the use of link-abbreviations in discourse? I mean--BW:CITE is pretty clear, but I had to actually click to figure out what BW:CP meant on another page. Just wondering if I was the only one. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 10:13, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

:::::: [[BW:SHORT]] page is getting a huge update. trying to gather them all up. Most shortcuts are two to three letters. CP -- Community Portal. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:51, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

::::::: And... I had to click to find out what BW:SHORT was. I'm not demanding change of usage, really. I'm just being a crochetey old codger. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 20:06, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

:::: You're right, I don't constitute as consensus. :-) I'm just seeing what everyone else thinks. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:19, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

::::: Oh. I know you know this, Joe. Hence your councel for waiting to see what others say. I was more responding to Shane's... eagerness. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 21:37, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

I very much like the idea. It's an excellent example of the utility of templates in encouraging standardization. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 04:37, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

* Vote Ends: 5 days from 11:40, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
* Result from Support: [[BW:CITE]]
** Add this text:
:::''We have imported cite templates from Wikipedia that should be used to cite all types of sources. These templates should be placed inside the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags.''
* Implemented this throughout the site. Going to take a while so we should get started.

# [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]] -
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] -
# [[User:Day|Day]] - {{support}} I don't see a problem. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 13:10, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] -
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] -
# [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] -
# [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] - {{Support}} Standardized citations = good. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:43, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Note: All users are welcome to partake in the voting as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]]

# {{support}} [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:36, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Episode number links

2006-07-24T17:54:53Z

Day:

I liked this idea before. Also change the '''Production Number''' into a Wiki link on the {{tl|Episode Data}} field. {{support}} [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 05:08, 13 July 2006 (CDT)}

I can't think of anything actually wrong with this, but I didn't think people would search episodes like that by number. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:15, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

It's not like it'll take a lot of resources (they're just redirects), and if it'll aid navigation then I'd be in favor of it. We could maybe check their "hit" count at some point in the future to see how much it is being utilized. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:25, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

I was somewhat thinking about something similar for a while now, but thought the better of it. Mainly because I am slightly leery of adding a slew of redirects, however I don't know of anyone who would type in "3.1" and intend to find an article of it. While I'm not convinced it would be entirely useful to do, I wouldn't object to people going through with this proposal. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:34, 17 July 2006 (CDT)

I like the idea, though I think 3x01 should be included and 3.1 omitted. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 04:28, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

: From what little experience I have in looking at official episode numbering for TV shows I had gathered that the use of a decimal was an industry convention. I could be wrong, of course, but I thought I'd throw that out there. I'm not sure how I feel about this proposal. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 12:54, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)

2006-07-23T09:04:13Z

Day: /* Other Mythological Names in Colonial Culture */ typo

{{Twelve Colonies Series}}
The religion of the Twelve Colonies, which the various characters of Battlestar Galactica practice to greater or lesser extent, is a polytheistic faith shared with real-life [[Wikipedia:Greek mythology|Greek mythology]], with a strong emphasis on the philosophy of [[Wikipedia:Eternal return|eternal return]].

==Origin==
There is substantial circumstantial evidence that people of Kobol originated from the planet [[Earth]], and it is also known that one of the thirteen tribes later returned there. The similarity in beliefs of the Colonials and the ancient Greeks is probably not coincidental, although it is not yet clear which gave rise to the other. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies]] and [[Sacred Scrolls]] for a more detailed analysis.

In the burial scene of the [[Miniseries]], Adama states "Life here began out there," reminding the assembly that this was the first line of the sacred scrolls, told to them by the Lords Of Kobol uncounted centuries ago.

==Belief==

===The Lords of Kobol===

Colonial religion is centered on the Lords of Kobol, analogous to the [[Greek Gods]]. So far within the series, a total of six Lords of Kobol have been explicitly identified:

* [[Zeus]] - He was the father of the gods. [[Tom Zarek]] has twice referred to [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] as "Zeus" ([[Bastille Day]], [[The Farm]]).
* [[Apollo, Lord of Kobol|Apollo]] - He was Zeus' son, said to be the god of the hunt and of healing ([[Bastille Day]]).
* [[Artemis]] - ([[Flesh and Bone]])
* [[Aphrodite]] - ([[Flesh and Bone]])
* [[Athena, Lord of Kobol|Athena]] - She committed suicide "out of despair over the Exodus of the thirteen tribes" ([[Home, Part II]]). Her [[Tomb of Athena|tomb]] holds a map to [[Earth]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).
* [[Hera, Lord of Kobol|Hera]] - ([[Home, Part II]])

According to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], the gods once shared a paradise-like existence with the people of [[Kobol]]. Later circumstances forced the exodus of the human population of Kobol to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]] and [[Earth]], and lead to Athena's suicide. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies]] for more.

The existence of the Lords of Kobol is attested to by the survival of numerous artifacts, including the [[Arrow of Apollo]], the [[Tomb of Athena]] and the [[Gates of Hera]]. However, although she accepts their historicity, [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]], has called their divinity into question.

There is a notion in fan circles that there are twelve lords of Kobol, by analogy to the twelve Cylon models and twelve Colonies, and perhaps the [[Wikipedia:Twelve Olympians|Twelve Olympians]] of Greek mythology. A post in RDM's blog loosely addresses this.

:Q: "Twelve cylon models and twelve Olympian gods seems too much of coincidence to me. Is there any connection? "
:RDM: And Twelve Colonies. Coincidence....?" ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/03/index.html#a000023 RDM, March 12, 2005])

===The Jealous God===

In a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/mov/bsg_del_112_regret.mov scene] cut from the episode "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began."

===The Path of Olympus===

[[Tom Zarek]] conveys to [[Laura Roslin]] and members of her command staff of [[Laura Roslin faction|factioners]] of the news that Commander [[William Adama]] had resumed command of ''[[Galactica]]'' after the attempt on his life by saying: "Zeus has returned to '''Olympus''' " ([[The Farm]]).

In Greek mythology, the home of the gods on Earth resided high on the top of Greece's highest mountain, Mount Olympus, at a time where access to the mountain summit would be almost impossible with the inhabitant's technology of that age. By Zarek's comment we can infer that Colonial religion appears to acknowledge the existence of a place called Olympus. It cannot yet be determined, however, if Olympus was thought of as the residence of the gods at a specific physical or ''metaphysical'' location of Kobol, as there has been no mention of Olympus elsewhere in the series. If Olympus is a metaphysical locale, this may contradict [[Elosha]]'s comment that the gods and man lived on Kobol together in harmony.

===Other Mythological Names in Colonial Culture===

Various items have been identified which are apparently named after other gods and legendary figures, although these have not been explicitly identified as Lords of Kobol.

* [[Triton]] - ([[Miniseries]]) - The namesake of a battlestar lost in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].
* [[Atlantia]] - ([[Miniseries]]) - The name of a [[Wikipedia:Hamadryad|hamadryad]], a form of nymph. Namesake of another battlestar lost in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. Could also be a refrence to the lengend of Atlantis, written by Plato.
* [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] - A legendary horse and namesake of Admiral [[Helena Cain]]'s [[Mercury class battlestar]].
* [[Zephyr]] - ([[Fragged]]) - A ship in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] is named after this god.
* [[Mercury]] - The lead ship of the [[Mercury class battlestar|Mercury class]], apparently named for the Roman version of the Greek god Hermes.
* Pluto - Namesake of the element [[Wikipedia:Plutonium|Plutonium]] mentioned in the episode "[[Bastille Day]]", and Roman version of the Greek god Hades.

===The Cycle of Time===

''"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."''

According to [[Gaius Baltar]], this line from the Pythian Prophecy is very well known ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]). [[Laura Roslin]] later expands on it, reminding [[Kara Thrace]],

:"If you believe in the gods, then you believe in the cycle of time that we are all playing our parts in a story that is told again, and again, and again throughout eternity" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

The notion of a circular progression of time (also known as [[Wikipedia:eternal return|eternal return]] or eternal recurrence) is a common theme in other faiths, particularly [[Wikipedia:Maya#Religion|Mayan]] mythology and is a cornerstone of the Hindu and Buddhist faiths. Moreover, [[Wikipedia:Stoic|Stoic]] philosophy did believe in the concept of ekpyrosis, the fire which consumes the old world and signals the birth of a new world, identical to the old, for a recurring cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Various events throughout the series have led some characters to believe that they are playing out another turn of this cycle. See [[Sacred Scrolls]] for more detailed analysis.

===Sanctity of Life===

According to the Sacred Scrolls, abortion is "an abomination in the eyes of the Gods". The more fundamentalist [[Gemenon]]s strictly adhere to this commandment, however the more secular Colonies such as Caprica apparently do not follow this as strictly: officially, Colonies-wide Federal law guaranteed a woman the right to an abortion, at least at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

==Individual Practice==

The Colonials display a wide spectrum of religious practice, ranging from [[Billy Keikeya]]'s atheism ([[Home, Part II]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/207/deleted4.html cut scene]) to Corporal [[Venner]]'s literalistic readings of the Sacred Scrolls. Colonials express their faith in a number of ways.

===Idols===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Idols.jpg|100px]]</div>
At the end of the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]", Kara Thrace, a devotee of Artemis and Aphrodite (as stated by [[Leoben Conoy]] in the same episode), prays to them on Conoy's behalf using figurines that bear a similarity to classic representations of Artemis and Athena. Artemis is depicted with her bow and arrow, and Athena with her helmet of war.
 

===Rosaries===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Rosary.jpg|100px]]</div>
When Roslin begins to suffer from Chamalla withdrawal in "[[Fragged]]", Corporal [[Venner]], a fundamentalist from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], anxiously clutches a set of white prayer beads.
 
===Group prayer===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:The_Farm-Group_Worship.jpg|100px]]</div>
Some prisoners on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' seeking rehabilitation have turned to group prayer. In the episode "[[The Farm]]", they greet Laura Roslin as a prophet and she provides them with a blessing.

Priestess [[Elosha]] sings a group prayer in the service for the dead at the conclusion of the [[Miniseries]]. Curiously, the language she sings is Sanskrit, a classical language of real-world Earth's Hindu/Indian peoples. More about the verses that she sings and their meaning can be found in the [[Language in the Twelve Colonies#Liturgy|Language in the Twelve Colonies]] article.'' 

===Artifacts===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Bsg-arrow-apollo.jpg|75px]]</div>
Despite Gemenon's fundamentalist climate, the city of [[Delphi]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] was apparently of a mind to store an important religious artifact, the [[Arrow of Apollo]], in a [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies|museum]], rather than a devotional institution.
 

==The Priesthood==

The separation of church and state is less rigorous in the Colonies than in the contemporary United States. Laura Roslin [[Case Orange|is sworn into the presidency]] by a priest, [[Elosha]], who continues on in an advisory capacity within Roslin's administration. Priests also preside over military funerals, without regard for the beliefs of the deceased. That this is a matter of course is perhaps indicative of the religious homogeneity of the Colonies.

Priests in the Twelve Colonies are apparently not required to practice celibacy, as in some Christian denominations. In the episode "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] states that his father was a priest and his mother an oracle.

According to Billy Keikeya, some priests use the [[Chamalla]] plant for its hallucinogenic properties. The prescient dreams it imparted to Laura Roslin may imply the use of something similar by [[Pythia]], an ancient prophet.

== Cylon Interpretations ==

Many Cylon agents show a strict, firm belief in a monotheistic God. When agents such as Leoben Conoy, the brothers Cavil, and Caprica Boomer begin talking of Cylon beliefs, they are ridiculed (and when Roslin is present, get thrown out the airlock). They refer to the Lords of Kobol as "false idols". They also claim to have more insight into Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves, as shown by [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]] in "[[Home, Part II]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Sacred Scrolls

2006-07-22T19:51:45Z

Day: /* The Form of the Scrolls */ typo

[[Image:Pythia.jpg|right|thumb|A portion of the Sacred Scrolls, specifically, a portion of the Book of [[Pythia]].]]
The '''Sacred Scrolls''' are a set of writings the form the basis of [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|Colonial religion]], a polytheistic faith resembling the legends of ancient Greece. The scrolls record much of the alleged history of humanity, including life on [[Kobol]] before the great exodus, and the legend of [[Earth]]. Portions of the scrolls are used in religious ceremonies, such as the Service of the Dead ([[Miniseries]], [[Act of Contrition]]).

Most notable among the Sacred Scrolls is the Book of Pythia, also referred to as the Pythian Prophecy. Written 3,600 years ago by the oracle [[Pythia]], they are believed by some to foretell the current exodus from the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]].

==Contents==
The contents of the Sacred Scrolls have only been revealed to us in glimpses, through brief quotes, paraphrases and explanations throughout the series. This section serves to catalog those snippets, and is followed by more detailed analysis.

===The Book of [[Pythia]]===
:'''Roslin:''' Who is Pythia? '''Elosha:''' One of the oracles in the sacred scrolls. 3,600 years ago. Pythia wrote about the exile and rebirth of the human race. ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])

====The Cycle of Time====
:'''Leoben:''' ''"All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."'' ([[Flesh and Bone]])

:'''Six:''' ''"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."'' ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])

:'''Roslin:''' If you believe in the gods, then you believe in the cycle of time that we are all playing our parts in a story that is told again, and again, and again throughout eternity. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])

====The Dying Leader====
:'''Elosha:''' ''"And the lords anointed a leader to guide the Caravan of the Heavens to their new homeland."'' ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])

:'''Elosha:''' She also wrote that the new leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land. ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])

:'''Roslin:''' The scriptures tell us a dying leader lead humanity to the promised land. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])

====A Vision of Serpents====
:'''Elosha:''' ''"And unto the leader they gave a vision of serpents numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come."'' ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])

====The Serpents Lead the People Into Battle?====
:'''Six:''' ''"Led by serpents numbering two and ten..."'' (fragment) ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])

====A Confrontation at the Home of the Gods====
:'''Six:''' ''"Though the outcome favored the few, it led to a confrontation at the home of the gods."'' ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])

====The Lower Demon====
:'''Elosha:''' The scrolls of Pythia do speak of a lower demon, who helped the people in a time of crisis. ([[Home, Part I]])

====The Blaze and the High Road====
:'''Elosha:''' ''"And the blaze pursued them, and the people of Kobol had a choice. To board the great ship, or take the high road through the rocky ridge."'' 
:'''Valerii (continuing):''' ''"And the body of each tribe's leader was offered to the gods in the tomb of Athena."'' And the great ship was the [[galleon]] that departed from here, where we're standing. And it took the founders of the thirteen colonies to their destiny. And those that didn't board the galleon took the high road, a rocky ridge that lead to the tomb. ([[Home, Part I]])

:'''Elosha:''' The path is supposed to be marked by gravestones. ([[Home, Part I]])

====The Gates of Hera====
:'''Valerii:''' That's the spot where your god supposedly stood and watched Athena throw herself down onto the rocks below, out of despair over the Exodus of the thirteen tribes. Athena's tomb, whoever or whatever she really was, is probably up there. ([[Home, Part II]])

====The Arrow of Apollo====
:'''Roslin:''' ''"And the Arrow of Apollo will open the Tomb of Athena."'' ([[Home, Part II]])

:'''Elosha:''' The scriptures tell us that Kobol points the way to Earth. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])

:'''Roslin:''' According to the scriptures, if we had the arrow of Apollo we could take it down to Kobol and we could use it to open the tomb of Athena and find our way to Earth. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])

====Kobol and the Blood Price====
:'''Adama:''' ''"And Zeus warned the leaders of the twelve tribes that any return to Kobol would exact a price in blood."'' ([[Home, Part II]])

===History===

====Pre-Exodus====
:'''Elosha:''' This place is Kobol... birthplace of mankind, where the gods and men lived in paradise until the exodus of the thirteen tribes. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])

====The Exodus====
:'''Elosha:''' How old are the ruins? '''Billy:''' Well, we won't know for sure until we send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years. '''Elosha:''' That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])

====The Thirteenth Tribe on Earth====
:'''Starbuck:''' The scriptures say that when the thirteenth tribe landed on Earth, they looked up into the heavens and they saw their twelve brothers. ([[Home, Part II]])

===Sayings===
:'''Adama:''' ''"The gods shall lift those who lift each other."'' ([[Home, Part II]])
:'''Cavil:''' ''"The gods lift up those who lift each other."'' ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]])
:: These sayings are similar to the [[Wikipedia:Algernon Sydney|Algernon Sydney]] quote "God helps those who help themselves".

==Notes==

The Cycle of Time is apparently a key component of Colonial theology. The notion of a circular progression of time (also known as [[Wikipedia:Eternal return|eternal return]] or eternal recurrence) is foreign to the ancient Greek religion of which Colonial religion are largely based, but it is a common theme in other religions. Some Hindus believe in an endless cycle of ages called [[Wikipedia:Yuga|Yugas]]. The ancient [[Wikipedia:Maya|Maya]] people, as well as the [[Wikipedia:Inca|Incas]] and [[Wikipedia:Aztec|Aztecs]] also believed in the circular nature of time. In philosophy, the [[Wikipedia:Stoics|Stoics]], a movement originating in ancient Greece, held the doctrine. In the nineteenth century, the doctrine appears in the writings of [[Wikipedia:Friedrich Nietzsche|Friedrich Nietzsche]] as a method of life-affirmation.

The book of Pythia, which contains or is identical to the Pythian Prophecy, was written 1,600 years before the exodus of the thirteen tribes from Kobol, and yet it apparently contains a detailed narrative of the events of the Exodus, and continues to be interpreted as a source of prophecy 2,000 years after its prophecies have (apparently) already been fulfilled. We may thus interpret the entire text as a prophecy, since the events it describes can be firmly dated to a point well after its text was written.

==Analysis==

===Correspondences===
Assuming the events following the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] are a repetition of the events predicted by Pythia, and which came to pass centuries later, we can make use of the prophecy by first constructing a coherent historical narrative from them and then looking for correspondences with the events of the series.

*The Lower Demon is [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|the Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]]
*The Dying Leader is President [[Laura Roslin]]
*The "serpents numbering two and ten" are the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]s of Strike Force Two in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]].
*The fleet defended by the [[Battlestar (RDM)|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' is the "Caravan of the Heavens".
*The "price in blood" has been paid by various people including [[Crashdown]] and [[Elosha]].

===The "One Exodus" Interpretation===
This interpretation assumes that the timeline is recurring on a scale of 1,600 to 2,000 years, and the exodus from Kobol is directly parellel to the exodus from the Twelve Colonies. It also makes some correspondences in addition to those above:

*The "Blaze" identified by Sharon Valerii is an earlier parallel to the cylon attack. The hostile force is the "jealous God", the Lord of Kobol that tried to elevate himself over the others.
*The Home of the Gods is [[Kobol]], and the people of [[Kobol]] are the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], in a somewhat metaphorical sense.

The timeline would procede thus:

#The people of Kobol lived in divine utopia with their gods.
#A hostile force - of which "the blaze" and the "lower demon" were parts - moves against the people of Kobol.
#The gods appoint a leader afflicted with a wasting disease to lead a "caravan of the heavens".
#The leader, with the aid of twelve "serpents", wins a perilous battle.
#The people make their way to the "home of the gods".
#Athena despairs and commits suicide.
#The leaders of the people are taken to the Tomb of Athena to be sacrificed to the remaining gods.
#The body of the people depart in a "[[galleon]]" for the colonies.
#Instructions are left to open the Tomb of Athena.
#Zeus warns against a return to Kobol.
#The twelve tribes settle on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. The thirteen tribe settles on [[Earth]].

Questions and Predictions:
*Can [[Earth]] be at once the "promised land" in this iteration and the last?
*Can we expect the deaths of the leaders of the tribes (the [[Quorum of Twelve]]?) to propitiate the Gods?

This history is admittedly not especially coherent, but suggests the possibility of predicting at least some unfulfilled pieces of scripture. Another interpretation which deals with the repetition of historical events on a larger scale is offered below.

===The "Three Exodi" Interpretation===
This interpretation does not assume that the flight from the [[Twelve Colonies]] mirror the original exodus from [[Kobol]]. Instead, it assumes that these two exodi are part of the same event-continuum and posits a third, implied, exodus. Like the "One Exodus" interpretation, this one assumes that Pythia's prophecies have and will come true. Below is the proposed order of events for Pythia's prophecies:

#The people of Kobol live in divine utopia with their Gods.
#The "blaze" moves against the people of Kobol.
#The body of the people depart in a "[[galleon]]" for the colonies (the four inset items are roughly concurrent).
#*Athena despairs and commits suicide.
#*The leaders of the people are taken to the Tomb of Athena to be sacrificed to the remaining gods.
#*Instructions are left to open the Tomb of Athena.
#*Zeus warns against a return to Kobol.
#The twelve tribes settle on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. The thirteen tribe settles on [[Earth]].
#The Cylons decimate the Twelve Colonies (Whether this is prophesied is unknown, but this clearly happened).
#The gods appoint a leader afflicted with a wasting disease to lead a "caravan of the heavens".
#The leader, with the aid of twelve "serpents", wins a perilous battle.
#The people make their way to the "home of the gods".
#A "lower demon" helps the people of Kobol find the Tomb of Athena.

Note, too, that this is only a part of the story according to the "Three Exodi" interpretation. It assumes that passages not yet revealed in the series outline (however vaguely) the finding of Earth and some time spent there, and then an event that spurs a migration back to Kobol. In this interpretation, the people of Kobol are actually the remnants of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]], both their descendants and their ancestors. From there, the cycle starts again. The cycle is much longer in this interpretation (roughly 4,000 years, as opposed to roughly 1,600-2,000 years)

It is helpful to think of no particular part as the beginning. This is how the pictures of the constellations (only visible from Earth) would be accessible to the people of Kobol "before" any of them had been to Earth. It also explains how the Scrolls can speak about the fate of the Thirteenth Colony and yet be in the possession of people from the Twelve Colonies. In fact, when Pythia was writing about the events in the show, she might have been recording fairly-recent history, rather that far-future prophesy. The vagueness would be mostly due to nearly 4,000 years of linguistic drift, rather than due to the mists of prophecy.

Basically, this interpretation asserts a roughly 3,600-4,000 year cycle which can be illustrated by this crude flow-chart:<br\>
Kobol > Colonies, Colonies > Earth, Earth > Kobol

===The Form of the Scrolls===

The Sacred Scrolls have been seen as an actual, ornate scroll (similar to a [[Wikipedia:Torah|torah]], as shown in the [[Miniseries]]), as well as a series of flat papers and books ([[Home, Part II]]). The total volume of the Scrolls has not been revealed, so it is possible (albeit improbable) that the scroll that [[Elosha]] holds in the [[Miniseries]] as she swears in President Roslin and holds during the Service for the Dead may make up only a portion of the total texts, or key books from the works.

Much of the Scrolls appear to be handwritten. While the technology of the Twelve Colonies obviously support electronic printing and reproduction, it may be that the most authentic copies of the sacred texts are either authentic reproductions from a handwritten copy, or genuine handwritten copies. This practice may be for reasons of authenticity, custom, or aesthetics. The practice is similar to the work and purposes of the [[Wikipedia:Scribes|scribes]] before the invention of the printing press in real-Earth history. For comparison, an extreme example of the tradition of handwritten sacred texts in real-Earth history are the [[Wikipedia:Sefer Torah|sefer Torahs]].

===General Questions===

*Are the [[Lords of Kobol]] still an agentive force in this iteration of the cycle?
*Who were the Lords of Kobol? The Caprica Valerii does not deny their existence, and the Tomb of Athena strongly attests to her life and death, but she does not believe they were gods. They were evidently distraught at the calamity which befell their people. Who was responsible for it, and why were the gods powerless to intervene?
*Which god was the "jeaous god" that sought to be raised above the others?
*Was Kobol the original home of the [[Lords of Kobol]], or did they originate from some other place?
*Did the people of the colonies leave Kobol with the assistance of the gods, or under their own power?
*What was the nature of the "[[galleon]]"? Was it a large STL colony ship? Did it have an FTL drive?
*If Roslin is now cured of cancer and not dying, can she be the leader of the Pythia Prophecy?
[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]][[Category:RDM]]

Language in the Twelve Colonies

2006-07-22T19:49:13Z

Day: Reverted edits by Tawakalna (Talk); changed back to last version by The Merovingian

{{Twelve Colonies Series}}

English, or some language that is universally translated into it (à la [[Wikipedia:Westron|Tolkien]]) is standard. Loanwords from foreign languages ("fascist", "karma", "esprit de corps" etc.) occur with normal frequency, as do chronologically enigmatic borrowings such as the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Columbia]]''. Most religious terms are explicitly shared with ancient Greek beliefs (either antecedent to or descendant from them).

==Vocabulary==

===Anachronisms===
[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]] uses many terms from modern day naval aviation, which appear somewhat anachronistic but also lend the show a flavor of realistic jargon. These include:
*[[Combat Air Patrol]]
*[[Commander Air Group]]
*Planes
:'''Adama:''' You keep my planes flying. I need my planes to fly. ([[Litmus]])

===Ersatz===
In contrast to its [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|predecessor]], the re-imagined ''Battlestar Galactica'' employs relatively little in the way of ersatz vocabulary. It does employ a few terms outside of a normal American English vocabulary, mostly military jargon. These are mixed in haphazardly with the real-life naval aviation terms above.

*[[Colonial Wireless Alphabet|Constellation]] - [[Wikipedia:NATO phonetic alphabet|Charlie]] (As used in the sense of radio alphabetic code, e.g.: "Alpha, Bravo, Constellation".)
*[[Dradis]] - [[Wikipedia:RADAR|Radar]]
*[[Fumarella leaf]] - [[Wikipedia:Tobacco|Tobacco]]
*[[Frak]] - A bowdlerized version of "Fuck" (c.f. "[[Wikipedia:Frell|Frell]]" (Farscape), "[[Wikipedia:Frag|Frag]]" (Babylon 5), "[[Wikipedia:Smeg|Smeg]]" (Red Dwarf))
*[[G-4]] - [[Wikipedia: C-4 (explosive)|C-4]]
*[[Krypter]] - [[Wikipedia:Mayday|Mayday]]
*[[Morpha]] - [[Wikipedia:Morphine|Morphine]]
*[[Serisone]] - [[Wikipedia:prednisone|Prednisone]]
*[[Wireless]] - [[Wikipedia:Radio|Radio]]<ref name="wireless">This usage is not entirely unknown in Earth-bound English. As a synonym for radio or radiotelegraphy, it's more common in British usage, according to [http://www.m-w.com/ Merriam-Webster]. Prior to the popularisation of television in the 1950s, it was the preferred term for radio equipment and radio broadcasts amongst the bulk of the British population. It's also the source of the prefix 'Wi' in 'WiFi' and other similar wireless data standards now common.</ref>

===Invented Terminology===
As all science fiction shows must, Battlestar Galactica has a set of vocabulary referring to technologies and other items not shared with the real world.

*[[Ambrosia]] - a bright green alcoholic beverage
*[[Carom]] - the angle above or below the XY plane of a vessel, perpendicular to [[Wikipedia:Bearing (navigation)|bearing]] (c.f. "Mark" (Star Trek))
*[[Chamalla]] - an [[Wikipedia:Entheogen|entheogen]] used by priests
*[[Red Line]]

===Enigmas===

Language in ''Battlestar Galactica'' have terms whose origins are a curiosity due to chronology or uniqueness to the real-world Earth that likely wouldn't have a parallel of the same name in the Twelve Colonies. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Pre-History|an interpretation of the origin of humanity on Kobol]] that could support the derivation of these terms.

* ''[[Columbia]]'': This battlestar name's origin is strange since its popular Earth derivation comes from Christopher Columbus, a man unlikely to have existed in the Twelve Colonies. It does however appear to stem from the Latin word "columba" meaning "dove" together with the suffix "ia" which means "land" (geographical expression) in all languages derived from Indo-European roots (ergo, "Land of the Dove")

* ''[[Cloud Nine]]'': This American expression of bliss comes from a 1890's Earth weather reference on the highest-altitude cloud formation. The expression became popularized in 1950s radio broadcasts.

===Honorifics===
Although civilians use the honorific "Madam" or it's shortened form "ma'am", in the Colonial military all superior officers are referred to as "Sir", regardless of gender. According to RDM's [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/blogs blog] on January 20th, 2006, the series follows the system established in "[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan|Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan]]", where the term "sir" has become gender-neutral in military usage. Thus, [[Laura Roslin]] is referred to as "Madam President" or "ma'am" in a civilian context, but in her capacity as Commander-in-Chief, she is always addressed as "sir".

===Names===
Many characters have names that include one or more components that appear to be a Biblical or Classical reference. It remains an enigma whether, and to what degree, these should be thought of as translations for the audience's benefit.

Some of these apparent allusions may have no intended meaning beyond sounding good. Others are known to have been chosen for a reason, and that's noted where verifiable.

* [[William Adama|William]] and [[Lee Adama]]: "Adama" is Hebrew for "earth" in its literal meaning—ground, dirt—from which "Adam", the Biblical First Man, derives his name. It is also the name of a large city in Ethiopia. Lee's call-sign "Apollo" is of course a reference to the Greek (and apparently, Kobolan) god. Both "Adama" and "Apollo" are carry-overs from the original series, where they were chosen for their mythological significance.
* [[Richard Adar]]: "[[Wikipedia:Adar|Adar]]" is a month in the Jewish lunar calendar still in use today. It coincides roughly with the Gregorian month of March. It is a carry over from the original series.
* [[Karl Agathon]]: "[[Wikipedia:Agathon|Agathon]]" was an Athenian poet, a friend of Euripides and Plato.
* [[Gaius Baltar]]: "Gaius" was the ''[[Wikipedia:praenomen|praenomen]]'' of the man we commonly call [[Wikipedia:Julius Caesar|Julius Caesar]]. "Baltar" was made up by [[Glen A. Larson]] for the original series.
* [[Helena Cain]]: "[[Wikipedia:Helena|Helena]]" is a common enough name, but is also a possible reference to Helen of Troy. "[[Wikipedia:Cain|Cain]]" in the Old Testament is the first murderer, and is a carry-over from the original series.
* [[Aaron Doral]]: "[[Wikipedia:Aaron|Aaron]]" is a Biblical Hebrew name, the older brother of [[Wikipedia:Moses|Moses]].
* [[Anastasia Dualla]]: The Greek word ''[[Wikipedia:anastasia|anastasia]]'' translates to "resurrection", and was a deliberate choice by [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron Moore]]. It's also not an uncommon Greek and Russian name. Dualla is the name of a region and people in sub-saharan Africa.
* [[Hera]]/Isis: "[[Wikipedia:Hera|Hera]]" was a Greek goddess, the wife of Zeus. "[[Wikipedia:Isis|Isis]]" an Egyptian goddess, the wife of Horus in early mythology; the wife of Osiris and mother of Horus later. This is one of the few Egyptian references in the new series.
* [[Kara Thrace]]: "[[Wikipedia:Thrace|Thrace]]" is a region in southeast Europe spanning Bulgaria, Greece, Macedonia, Turkey, and Serbia. It was also the ancient name for the same area. The famous gladiator Spartacus was a Thracian.
* [[Saul Tigh]]: "[[Wikipedia:Saul|Saul]]" is a Hebrew name, which means "borrowed". Biblical references include both the first king of Judah and Israel, and the birth-name of Paul of Tarsus. "Tigh" appears to have been made up by [[Glen A. Larson]], but it is also Scottish Gaelic for "house." Originally the character was named "Paul Tigh", but when it was discovered that this could not be used for legal reasons, it was shifted to "''S''aul Tigh", a reverse of the name switch that Saul of Tarsus/St. Paul made.
* [[Galen Tyrol]]: "[[Wikipedia:Galen|Galen]]" was a famous Greek healer, the source of much Medieval medical knowledge, and was the first to argue that the mind was in the brain and not the heart; this could be construed as ironic, given that Tyrol followed his heart and maintained a relationship with Boomer even when he shouldn't have. "[[Wikipedia:Tyrol|Tyrol]]" is a region that spans the border of Austria and Italy.
* [[Sharon Valerii]]: "Sharon" is Hebrew for forest, although it's also a common English woman's name. The [[Wikipedia:Valerius|gens Valeria]] is one of the longest-running families in the history of the [[Wikipedia:Roman Empire|Roman Empire]]. Curiously, "valerii" is the masculine plural form.
* [[Tom Zarek]]: "[[Wikipedia:Thomas|Thomas]]" is a deliberate biblical reference, after the doubting apostle, although strictly speaking that apostle's name was Jude the Twin, "Tau'ma" being Aramaic for "twin". It's also a common English name. Zarek is a Polish name derived from the Babylonian name Balshazzar meaning "Baal protects the king." According to the writers, they just made up the name "Zarek" because they thought it sounded "spacey".

Uncertain references:
* [[Leoben Conoy]]: "[[Wikipedia:Leoben|Leoben]]" is an Austrian town where a preliminary peace in the Napoleonic wars was signed. "[[Wikipedia:Conoy|Conoy]]" is a Native American tribe, also known as the Piscataway. Both are pretty obscure.
* [[Billy Keikeya]]: "Keikeya" appears to be made up.
* [[Laura Roslin]]: "[[Wikipedia:Roslin Institute|Roslin Institute]]" is where Dolly the Sheep was cloned. Roslin is a town in Scotland.

==Accents==

Most characters speak with a [[Wikipedia:General American|Standard American]] accent, with some exceptions.

===English Accent===
Two characters speak with the [[Wikipedia:Received Pronunciation|Received Pronunciation]], Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] of Caprica and ship's medic [[Layne Ishay]]. Other characters from Caprica do not share this accent.

===Canadian Accent===
Occassionally when Col. [[Saul Tigh]] is shouting or barking out orders, he exhibits a faint canadian accent. [[Michael Hogan]] is a noted Canadian actor, and on the show his speech is usually indistinguishable from Standard American English, but observant fans can occassionally detect a trace of an accent.

===Spanish Accent===
[[Giana]], a woman rescued from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], spoke with a Spanish accent, and inquired after the whereabouts of her husband, who she stated was "stationed on Gemenon". Her place of origin is unclear, but no other characters from either Caprica, [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], or anywhere else have shared this accent. The actress, Lymari Nadal, is from Puerto Rico.

===Aerelon Accent===
In the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]", Baltar noted that Sharon Valerii spoke with a trace of an [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]] accent. The actress who portrays her, Grace Park, is fluent in both English and Korean, but speaks Standard American English without a foreign accent.

===Kiwi Accent===
The reporter [[D'anna Biers]] speaks with a Kiwi/New Zealand accent (this is actually the accent that actress [[Lucy Lawless]] speaks with when off screen, because she is from New Zealand). However, the same episode revealed that D'anna is actually a [[Cylon agent]], and another copy of D'anna on Cylon-occupied Caprica does ''not'' speak with this accent, but a Standard American one. This seems to imply that D'anna's entire personality was for show, and that the Cylons seem to use more standardized pronunciation when amongst themselves ([[Final Cut]]; this subtle hint made by ''not'' using her Kiwi accent is also mentioned in David Eick's video blog). However, in her subsequent appearance in "[[Downloaded]]", D'anna/Number Three continues to speak with a Kiwi accent on Caprica (probably because Lawless wanted to keep using her normal Kiwi accent, after her character was turned into a recurring role).

==Liturgy==
During the funeral service at the end of the Mini-series, Priest [[Elosha]] chants a prayer in a foreign language. It is recognizable as a common Sanskrit prayer, found in Part I, Chapter III, Verse 28 of the [http://sanatan.intnet.mu/upanishads/brihadaranyaka.htm Brihadaranyaka Upanishad].

:{|
| '''Devanāgarī''' || '''Transliteration''' || '''Translation'''
|-
| अस्तो मा सद् गमय || ásato ma sád gamaya || Lead me from unreal to Real
|-
| तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय || támaso ma jyótir gamaya || Lead me from darkness to Light
|-
| मृत्योन् मा अमृतं गमय् || mrtyór mamrtam gamaya || Lead me from death to Immortality
|}

Although the lyrics are identifiable, it should be noted that the actress's performance is closer to the chanting of biblical Hebrew, and does not resemble the traditional melody.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: Colonial]]
[[Category: Colonial Society]]
[[Category: RDM]]

{{featured article candidate previous}}

Kobol

2006-07-20T20:07:58Z

Day: /* Kobol in the Re-imagined Series */ "swathes" is, indeed, the right word, here. Isn't swatch, a fabric-related term?

'''Kobol''' is the ancestral homeworld for humanity in both ''Battlestar Galactica'' sagas. In both series, an unexplained event or catastrophe causes humanity to leave Kobol and settle on the planets that form their new homeworlds known as the Twelve Colonies.

==Kobol in the Original Series==
[[Image:BattleofKobol.jpg|thumb|left|The tombs of the Lords of Kobol as seen in the Original Series. This shot is obviously based on the [[Wikipedia:Egyptian pyramids|Egyptian pyramids]] of real-world Earth.]]

In the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], Kobol was the mother world where mankind originated. An ecological / environmental disaster led to humanity's migration. During the migration, 12 tribes set out for the stars, but became lost in a starless void before stumbling into the worlds that would become the new [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)|Twelve Colonies of Man]], while the 13th again headed for a world called "Earth".

Kobol is rediscovered in the two-part episode, "[[Lost Planet of the Gods, Part I|Lost Planet of the Gods]]." A team from ''[[Galactica (TOS)|Galactica]]'' arrive among the ruins of [[Eden]], the planet's largest city, seeking to enter the tomb of the [[Ninth Lord of Kobol]] in order to find clues as to the route taken by the Thirteeth Tribe. A [[Cylon]] attack ultimately prevents them from doing so.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==Kobol in the Re-imagined Series==
[[image:Home_pt1-Kobol.jpg|thumb|right|'''Kobol''' as seen from space in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]].]]

Kobol is said to be the original home of mankind, once shared with the [[Lords of Kobol]].

Kobol is a verdant world of seas and continents, the latter having large swathes of woodland, grassland and forests. It was located in [[Sector 218]] of the galaxy ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Kobol was a place where humans and the gods dwelt in harmony, the seat of power being the [[City of the Gods]] in the northern hemisphere, itself dominated by the [[Forum]] and [[Opera House]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), structures which were duplicated on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] in the city of [[Delphi]].

===Great Exodus===
The Great Exodus from Kobol took place some 2,000 years prior to the events of the [[re-imagined|new Battestar Galactica]]. At that time, the Twelve Tribes departed Kobol for another star system.

It is unclear whether the gods themselves departed Kobol at this time. However, given that their presence is not seen among the Twelve Colonies, it is possible they remained on Kobol. This may be the reason why not everyone departed Kobol at the time of the Great Exodus.

It is known that the [[Thirteenth Tribe]] departed Kobol some time before the main exodus ([[Miniseries]]), to seek a planet known as "[[Earth]]." The gods may also have abandoned Kobol at this time to travel with the Thirteenth Tribe.

===Religious Texts===
During the time humans lived on Kobol, many texts were written, some of which have survived through time, and are regarded by some as religious artifacts, and by others the documenting of myths and legends. Chief among these writings are those of [[Pythia]], who wrote some 1,600 years prior to the Great Exodus, fortelling of another exodus featuring a "caravan of the heavens" lead by someone dying of a "wasting disease" ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]). This exodus would lead humanity to a new home, although the leader would die before he/she could enter the new home.

Some of the writings of Pythia have apparently come true: President [[Laura Roslin]], the civil leader of the Colonial fleet is dying of cancer - which can be considered a wasting disease. Further, she has several visions, including one of 12 snakes ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]) that is specifically foretold by Pythia.

According to an image of [[Number Six|Six]] that appears to [[Gaius Baltar]], the Cylons have very different beliefs about Kobol, including that human sacrifice was practiced there, and that the souls of all who die on Kobol are forever lost ("[[Valley of Darkness]]," "[[Fragged]]"). Since this "virtual Six" appears to be some [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|sort of hallucination]], this belief may be a falsehood.

===Rediscovering Kobol===
Kobol is re-discovered by chance when ''[[Galactica]]'' dispatches her [[Raptor]]s to locate planets which may provide materials needed to re-supply the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Following the discovery (as predicted by the [[Cylon agent]] [[Leoben Conoy]]), Roslin becomes convinced that Kobol will lead the fleet to Earth, providing the [[Tomb of Athena]] can be accessed. To do this, the [[Arrow of Apollo]] must be retrieved from the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]].

However, before the surface of Kobol can be reached safely (and the crew of a crashed Raptor rescued), a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] force lead by a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] must be eliminated. Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] plans to use the captured [[Cylon Raider]] to help with this, but before any plan can be put into action, Lt. [[Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] uses the Raider to go to Caprica in an attempt to recover the Arrow ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Commander Adama eventually uses a Raptor armed with a nuclear warhead to destroy the orbiting basestar.

President Roslin played up her role as "the Leader" sent by the Gods, and convinces a third of [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to return to Kobol with her ([[The Farm]]). With the Arrow of Apollo retrieved, Roslin descends to the surface with a small team, including [[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]], Starbuck, [[Helo]], and [[Tom Zarek]]. The [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|copy of Sharon Valerii]], who accompanied Helo on Caprica, claims to know how to help Roslin reach the [[Tomb of Athena]], and is brought along as guide. Along the way on the surface, Roslin's team fights with additional Centurions, resulting in the death of priestess [[Elosha]], Roslin's personal religious advisor ([[Home, Part I]]).

Commander Adama (who locates Roslin's group on the surface) joins her and the rest of the team shortly after Elosha's death. The team soon finds the Tomb of Athena. They are the first people to see the inside of the Tomb in centuries, and use the Arrow to activate a holographic map display which indicated the general direction of [[Earth]] ([[Home, Part II]]).

==Similarities of Kobol between Original and Re-imagined Series==

*It is the original home of humanity
*It is found by chance by both Fleets
*A tomb may hold the key to the location of Earth
**[[Ninth Lord of Kobol]] - [[Lost Planet of the Gods, Part I]]
**[[Tomb of Athena]] - [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*Special keys are needed to open or access the secrets of the tomb
**[[Adama's Medallion]]
**The [[Arrow of Apollo]]
*The Colonials encounter Cylons during their quests.

==Etymology of "Kobol"==
"Kobol" originally appears to have derived from "Kolob" which, according to the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_about_Mormonism Mormon] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham Book of Abraham] is the "star nearest unto God". [[Glen A. Larson]], creator of the Original Series. is a member of the of the [[Wikipedia:Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints|Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]. As such, he used Mormon imagery within the show, together with elements of Eygptian imagery that tend to reflect the time of [[Wikipedia:Abraham|Abraham]] and the Israelites.

==Cinematic Note==

In the Re-imagined Series, much of the scenic, expansive landscapes of Kobol were filmed at [http://www.spacesfornature.org/greatspaces/pinecone.html Widgeon Slough], the largest freshwater marsh in the the Pinecone Burke Provincial Park, Britsh Columbia, Port Coquitlam (Source in part: [[The Official Companion]]).

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Planets]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:TOS]]

Talk:Kobol/Archive 1

2006-07-19T20:09:24Z

Day: /* Reorganization */

Could the name Kobol possibly come from the archaic programming language Cobol?--[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 14:59, 19 January 2006 (EST)

: I don't think so... The original series used it and I thought it was supposed to be an anagram for some idea or theme that plays a large part in Mormonism. I don't remember where I read that, though. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:19, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::c.f. [[Wikipedia:Kolob]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:58, 19 January 2006 (EST)

"Kobol" is also the Persian word for "Heaven"...though of course, I think that's another case of Jospeh Smith "borrowing" something from another religion for Mormonism...but who am I to deride a major religion...--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:55, 19 January 2006 (EST)

== Reorganization ==

In keeping with our goal not to give preferential treatment to Re-imagined Series content over Original Series content, I've reorganized this article to their chronological debuts, Original Series first, cleaning it up a bit as I went. It should make for a better article for a central locale in both sagas. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:20, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

: Oh Lords. Actually, this needs to be split into Kobol (RDM) and Kobol (TOS) with this page as the disambig. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 15:09, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/CSS Layout

2006-07-19T20:07:20Z

Day: /* Vote */ Consider that my vote, then.

I don't understand; what is this and where can I see an example? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:09, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:The most basic define is: '''Cascading Style Sheets. Language used to describe how an HTML document should be formatted'''. So all you would have to do is:
<pre>
{| class="infobox"
|-
| This is an info box...
|}
</pre>
and the "CSS File" has an "infobox" define with different style parameters. So you don't have to know CSS, all you have to do is the "class". Also the CSS "package" includes a design update of some of the elemsnts of the "layout". Like the Left navagation area, default colors, etc, etc. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:17, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::Well okay, but what I see on the Hangar Bay thing doesn't look like a massive redesign: am I looking at the right thing?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:43, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Look at the footer, the left navagation (the icons will not show because it's not on the main "root" yet. The Yellow links where "My Talk" is. The Yellow Tabs. The Editing and New Article Creation look different. The Prefences look different. Red no longer exists, unless it's a non created page. Stuff like that. There are very few artiles that have been created, but there are no images on that wiki.

*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/33
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Miniseries
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Anastasia_Dualla
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Special:Recentchanges

Alot of the changes you can not see unless you create a dummy account on the Hangerbay. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:53, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I have two major problems here.
#I'm personally quite fond of monobook, and I don't care for the redesign featured at the hangar bay; and although an intense design critique could improve it, I don't think it's worth our energy. The leads to my second point:
#Monobook, and other projects which we inherit from the MediaWiki project, are worked on and approved by large groups with more design sense, creativity, and enthusiasm than we can ever hope to muster on our small corner of the internet. To think otherwise strikes me as hubris. This is one of those situations where I vastly prefer deferring to other experts rather than trying to do something ourselves.
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

:I agree. I like what we already have, and it would be a lot of energy for a comparatively minor change. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:59, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
::Forget to mention... there is a second skin that is int he Monobook colors with the same design. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:06, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I think that the reason this proposal looks weak, is because Shane is not displaying the power of CSS. Switching to CSS is an investment in the future. It would make lay-out design changes MUCH easier after adopting it. If all info-boxes look as they do because they're labeled "infobox" in the HTML (as generated by MediaWiki), then should we want to change how they look, we can change it in one place and they all get updated. So, that's, maybe, not so spiffy. Here's the catch; to me, the selling point. We also have an "infobox" description in the monobook css file that tells infoboxes how to look. A user picks which CSS file they want to use in preferences (this is, actually, already how the different "skins" work, it's just a matter of personalizing the CSS files referenced in prefs).

I don't agree with Peter (GASP!) that we should let the experts handle this one. Our needs are different from those of Wikipedia at times and so it would behoove us to decide for ourselves on some things. I, personally, think this is one of those things. There are a lot of common lay-out elements we user over and over that could be standardized and centralized into the CSS files.

''Also'', it is my understanding that the CSS files are editable via the Wiki interface. I'll have to do some more research, but I think, if we know the name of the file, we can edit a page of that same name and that information gets appended to the page (so there'd be one page like this for each skin). I may be misunderstanding this, however.

What would make me feel better about this proposal is:
* No change in aesthetics being tied to moving to CSS. That's a separate argument.
* Equal treatment of CSS for other skins (I.e. we should personalize ''all'' the css files).
* More research into whether or not the css files can be edited via wiki interface. This is, I think, very important.

Also, Shane, would you provide a link here (for quick reference) to the css file you're working with so that those of us that can read css can scan through it? Thanks. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:58, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'll dig up the link. -- [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:33, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:The use of CSS isn't at issue - MediaWiki already produces very clean markup which can be styled practically at will. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:37, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:: Yes, Peter, but most of our styling is done in-line, which doesn't lend itsself to standardization. For instance, all the places where color is specified in-line need to be given classes and those classes added to each .css we have. Maybe I'm entirely misunderstanding Shane's proposal and I need to make my own to this purpose. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 16:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:::I understood that Shane wanted to replace our current default skin outright with the version on display at the hangar bar. I agree that inline styles in templates should be done away with. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:33, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::This is the "CSS" file being used right now on the Hangerbay: http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/skins/bsgbook/main.css Now all the elements Above the line:
<pre>
/**
* Custom Elements for Battlestar Wiki "Design"; These do not appear with MediaWiki Default
**/
</pre>
are the MediaWiki "tags" with the BSG Colors. Everything below are customs tags to "objects" and styles we have created from the "main page" redesign and other misc. custom elements already created on this wiki. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:42, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Thanks for the link, Shane. I'll look over it when I get the time. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 16:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Monobook example ==
The monobook example is looking a LOT better. Kind of have to squint your eyes and imagine what it'd look like with images. Also, the more artistic/interface minded might pipe in if you have any color scheme suggestions. Engineers always end up doing far more interface work than they really ought to. The light blue was a suggestion based off of some of wikipedia's pages.--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:19, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

When: 6 days from now... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:56, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
Support Reached: CSS be installed or [[BW:CSS]] be created to show examples of code before it gets installed; Edit pages that matter

# [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]] -
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] -
# [[User:Day|Day]] - <nowiki>{{confused}}</nowiki> How can we support or oppose something that is multiple choice? I would {{support}} a project page for working on the CSS use on this site. I would {{oppose}} installing the CSS as it stands over at the demo site. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:22, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] -
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] -
# [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] -
# [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] - {{Support}} I like the project page idea. This is an inherently abstract project, and having a place to lay out some example code, etc., would benefit it. A possible big win (long-term). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 06:42, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# {{Support}} A project page to show benefits. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 06:59, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# {{Support}} - We can always have this "style" installed also. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:03, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Talk:William Adama/Archive 1

2006-07-19T20:04:52Z

Day: /* Cleanup Required */

Just curious, but what's going on with the page? I thought it had more information than this... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:59, 5 May 2005 (EDT)

: As it turns out, [http://battlestarwiki.joebeaudoin.net/index.php?title=Adama%2C_William&oldid=3457 it did]? Is this currently being revised? If so, that's great. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:01, 5 May 2005 (EDT)

== Divorced? ==

Is there a source for his being divorced from Anne and a reason she is not mentioned in his "Marital Status" entry? --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:17, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:I don't believe Adama was divorced from Anne at all, but in any case no episode data confirms that status. Note he wears a wedding ring in the miniseries. Also note his sadness on announcing Caprica City's nuking, suggesting other loved ones (maybe Anne) was a victim, too. The only information we can confirm thus far is that Adama married twice. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:29, 17 January 2006 (EST)

== OK, NOT the Adama I Expected to Get Kissed ==

Wow. [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] took me a bit by surprise at the end there. Not Cain getting shot, but Adama's little kiss with Roslin. That was an interesting turn. Not sure what to make of it, other than I was getting all girly-swishy watching it all like a soap opera. That should make the next episode more harder to watch with Roslin...well, don't want to spoil it. And damn, I'm glad the wiki's back up. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:32, 13 January 2006 (EST)

: I was ''incredibly'' impressed with Olmos' acting just after the kiss. After she turned away and his face fell... I could very easily sense the utter ''depth'' of sorrow the <s>Commander</s> Admiral was feeling. I've seen that face a few times in real life regarding real life sickness and loss and, well, as I said, I was impressed. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:35, 14 January 2006 (EST)

::Another good bit of Olmos' acting was in the last episode. I didn't notice it until after I listened to the podcast, but Olmos wipes away a tear as he turns around to hear Roslin say one more thing as he leaves Colonial One in the scene before the battle plan scene. He's a damn fine actor--they all are. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 14 January 2006 (EST)

::I thought that RDM said something in the podcast about Olmos spontaneously adding the kiss, which is why Roslin's reaction is so good. --[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 14:55, 16 January 2006 (EST)

:::That's correct. I learned this later myself when someone else noted this from the podcast as well as well as from the podcast when I listened in, too. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:26, 17 January 2006 (EST)

== "Roll the hard six" ==

Does anyone know what "rolling the hard six" actually refers to? I know it has to do with the game of craps, but I don't know specifically what it means. It would help if i did, because I've started using it completley inadvertently in everyday speech, along with [[frak]]. My friends look at me like I'm insane, its pretty bad. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 00:52, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:Dude...Six is the highest number on dice. "Rolling the hard six" means getting a high number, when your really need it in a difficult situation...as this is a statistically rare occurance, it is "hard" to do. This doesn't refer to anything specific at all; this is intuitive.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:01, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::First, I don't think you're right. I believe the reference is more specific than that.
::Secondly, It would have been a simple matter to phrase your response without a condescending tone. Instead of what you actually said, you could've said "I think 'rolling the hard six' simply refers to actually rolling a six on a die. Since six is the highest number on dice, it means getting a high number when you really need it, and since rolling a 6 is statistically rare, it is "hard" to do."
::Why is it necessary to be rude to other members of the wiki? It only encourages them to be rude back to you, and I know you've had problems with users flaming you in the past - well, this is why they did it. A less civilized person might decide to insult you every chance they get, after the several comments you've made at me.
::When you insult me or other frequent posters, it is merely an annoyance. However, when you insult those who are relatively new to the wiki, you are actually scaring them. I know if I got a comment like that on my first post, I might decide never to post again. This damages the wiki, as there may be quality posters waiting in the wings who you could be scaring off. Please, choose your words carefully and refrain from being rude - to everyone, from newbs to admins and everyone in between. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 11:13, 29 January 2006 (EST)
:::This is not rude, it is blunt honesty, and should be taken as such.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:27, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::: There're plenty of ways to be honest and even blunt, but not rude. In fact, I don't think you were very blunt at all. Blunt would have been more like: "Six is the highest number on dice. That is "hard" to roll." And BMS's sample would have been ''just'' as honest (read: truthful) as your post. Additionally, just because you intended something to be blunt and honest, but not rude, doesn't mean others must take it that way; the onus is on ''you'' to make sure your intent is clear in the words and phrases you choose. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:05, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:In [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craps standard craps]], "hard six" specifically refers to the combination 3-3 on two dice. You can roll a six 5 different ways (1-5,2-4,3-3,4-2,5-1) only 1 of which is "hard". When a player needs a six, any of the combinations will do. The odds against making a ''hard'' six are 10-1, since only 1 outcome is favorable and 10 are unfavorable (namely, the other 4 ways to make a six, and all 6 ways to make a seven). So the symmetry and low frequency of 3-3 lead to its special designation. The same is true of hard 4, 8 and 10. There is no "hard 2" or "hard 12" for a variety of reasons including the obvious one (there's only one way to roll them anyhow). --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 12:40, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:: Thanks, John. This has been bugging me for a long time, too. Now we all know. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:05, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::Yes, yes, thank you. I am quite sorry. Please, let's put this unpleasantness behind us.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:14, 29 January 2006 (EST)
::::That's what I thought it was. I've noticed that I've also been saying this in normal conversation. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:32, 29 January 2006 (EST)
:::::Thanks a ton John. That helps a lot, now I can actually explain it when someone asks. Talos: its pretty bad, isn't it? Doesn't mean I'm gonna stop doing it, though! --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 13:42, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Hey, don't feel bad, I insert it into conversation ''on purpose''--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:16, 29 January 2006 (EST)

==Husker==
Say, is there a way to get the Character template to stop saying William "Husker" Adama? He has not been addressed as Husker, so it might be more of a confusion than anything to have it say that. As a Commander and now an Admiral, he has not been known as a Viper pilot for quite a while. Long before we became "acquainted" with him. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:47, 24 February 2006 (EST)
:Yeah, I'm not a fan of it either (or anything on that template, for that matter) - but if we get rid of his callsign, should we also get rid of Lee's? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:59, 24 February 2006 (EST)

== Sources? ==

There are lots of things in this article that weren't stated in any of the shows. Shouldn't these things have notes as to their sources?

"At the outbreak of the first Cylon War, Adama was serving in the Colonial Fleet as a Viper pilot. He allegedly gained the call sign of "Husker" on account of his baritone "gravelled" voice. He proved to be a gifted pilot, shooting down his first Cylon on his very first mission. He racked-up his 1,000th deck landing while serving aboard the Battlestar Atlantia (Act of Contrition), when he held the rank of Lieutenant. "

Where is all that from? I can only imagine the Video Game, which is not a legitimate source (according to the Citation Jihad Project)

"before the pressures of Adama's career and the time he spent away from home of active service began to place a strain on their marriage."

Has it ever been stated why they divorced?

"but within a few years he had been discharged as the result of a reduction-in-force."

We don't know why he was discharged.

Just a few examples.

:<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> makes a magic signature thing, though you have to make your own dashes.
:We certainly know he was a gifted viper pilot, though the "in the First Cylon War" part might be based on deleted scenes. (The flashbacks to Adama and Tigh meeting, etc., certainly say it.) We know he had the callsign "Husker" as well, though, again, maybe just from deleted scenes (the flashbacks to Adama and Tigh meeting, etc., probably); I don't recall knowing why he got it. I don't recall the kill on first mission, either. The 1,000th deck landing thing is apparently referenced in [[Act of Contrition]], which fits with the celebration that was interrupted by the errant probe, but I admit not recalling the line; checking the transcripts would verify.
:I don't recall knowing the reason Adama is estranged from his wife, but I do recall that we do not know if they are divorced at all (see above section).
:I believe the reduction in force reason was at least heavily implied in deleted scenes (the flashbacks to Adama and Tigh meeting, etc.).
:So, the stuff I'd be worried about is the reason for the callsign, the kill on the first mission, and the reason for his estrangement from his wife. All seem reasonable (and the last almost certain), but that's not good enough; someone else can probably source them, though. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 15:02, 9 March 2006 (CST)

We know his callsign because it was printed by the cockpit of his Mark 2 viper in the miniseries.

We don't know wny adama is estranged from his wife, but we know he was divorced because in the miniseries, apollo says that she is getting remarried.

We don't know why Tigh and Adama ended up on a freighter. Maybe they quit after the war? Maybe they were tossed out as reduction in force. It's never said.

: Both Adama and Tigh were honorably discharged after the war. The only reason why Adama got in was because his "new wife" had pull in the Colonial Military. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:26, 12 March 2006 (CST)

:You're right about the callsign, though I'd note I did say that we knew it.
:Popping in that DVD, indeed such a marriage is mentioned. (Though it did bring to mind my inability to recall mention that they were ever married.)
:While I was popping in DVD's, I confirmed the [[Atlantia]] location for Adama's 1000th landing. (Kara tells a story about it in [[Act of Contrition]].) --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 18:55, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Regarding the discharge of Adama and Tigh, I think that they were most likely honorably discharged, since the fleet eventually re-hired them. The issue here though is WHY were they honorably discharged? Did they themselves resign, or did the Fleet downsize them out of the service?

After World War II, the government didn't really have much problems with military size, as a great number of people merely did not reenlist.. and who could blame them? Did Adama and Tigh do the same thing? were they so sick of war that they got themselves out of the service, only to find civilian life unsatisfying?

We just don't know, and stating otherwise as fact probably isn't the best thing to do.

== Cleanup Required ==

This article is one of our longest. I wouldn't necessarily want to lose the central bio, but we should move the first season info into a subarticle, or severely condense it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:51, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

This article now possesses the first truncated character bio for a major character. Discussions of the article appear in [[User talk:Spencerian/Shortbio]] and the original mock page is at [[User:Spencerian/Shortbio]]. In short, the goal of this adjustment to highlight the important notes of the character with a minimum of narrative or rehashing of episode data already present in other articles. In short, the bio page reflects more on who the character is, and less on what he's done that's not something of remarkable note and which hasn't been noted ''ad nauseum'' to another article. Truncated character bios also reduce the article size to prevent issues with older browsers and readers, and make it easier for all to edit and update since historical information can simply be added in a few bullets. We haven't set this format officially, so now is the time to comment and critique this live version. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:54, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

: I like. I went in and fixed some typos. I wonder if "background" might not be made to be even shorter. As it stands, it's nearly as long as the in-series stuff we've seen. Maybe that's just an artifact of his having a lot of background provided to us in the show (as opposed to the reletively equal amount of BG exposition each character received in the Mini). Anyway, I think this is a lot more wieldy. I would not be opposed to other lengthy character pages moving to a similar format. Maybe we should make some S&C regarding it, though, first. Not sure. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:05, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::Right. The bullets allow better condensing, so if there's more there that's really an episode comment rather than a distinguishing character comment, then it should be removed. The essense of ''what he is'' is different than how we need to talk about ''what he does''. I have [[Gaius Baltar]] next on my target for such a truncation once we approve the format, then Roslin. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 14 July 2006 (CDT)

I am opposed to this use of bulleted list on a character page. I understand that it is to long, but it's not good this way. I'll work on it later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:20, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

: I am, personally, fine with bullets, but don't feel married to them. A narrative format giving this same level of information is, to me, equally desirable. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 15:04, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Poll Template

2006-07-19T19:58:12Z

Day: /* Comments */

I can't visualize how this is going to work well, but I think it would take away from our normal way of getting consensus through discussion. We could just call votes as we always do, i thought. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:49, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:Since I can't post a visual aid, I'm sorry. I can't explain it any better than I did. There is an example out on the template itself, but I can't show you an example of how it can work without violating the rules. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm not sure what this does that can't be accomplished with a new header, a few lines of text, and the (attractive) {{tl|support}}, {{tl|neutral}}, and {{tl|oppose}} templates. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:01, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

== Example ==

According to admins, I can post an example here. Since I have created the template in hope that it passes this is an example of what it could do.

Where this "would" be placed if being used: [[Battlestar Wiki:New User Survey]] (Not the talk page).

{| class="toccolors"
|- style="text-align: center;"
! style="background: #461919; color: #FFFFFF;" colspan="3" | '''New User Survey Project'''
|- class="hiddenStructureStuats of Proposel" valign="top"
| '''Question'''
| colspan="2" | Stuats of Proposel
|- valign="top"
| '''Date Started'''
| colspan="2" | 21:22, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
|- class="hiddenStructure" valign="top"
| '''Date Ending'''
| colspan="2" | 21:22, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
|- valign="top" align="center"
| {{Support}}
| {{Oppose}}
| {{Neutral}}
|- valign="top" align="center"
| [[User:Shane|Shane]]
|
|
|- valign="top" style="background: #461919; color: #FFFFFF;"
| align="center" | 1 ({{roundup|{{expr:(1/{{expr:1+0+0}})*100}}}}%)
| align="center" | 0 ({{roundup|{{expr:(0/{{expr:1+0+0}})*100}}}}%)
| align="center" | 0 ({{roundup|{{expr:(0/{{expr:1+0+0}})*100}}}}%)
|}

 

{| class="toccolors"
|- style="text-align: center;"
! style="background: #461919; color: #FFFFFF;" colspan="3" | '''New User Survey Project'''
|- valign="top" align="center"
| {{Support}}
| {{Oppose}}
| {{Neutral}}
|- valign="top" style="background: #461919; color: #FFFFFF;"
| align="center" | 1 ({{roundup|{{expr:(1/{{expr:1+0+0}})*100}}}}%)
| align="center" | 0 ({{roundup|{{expr:(0/{{expr:1+0+0}})*100}}}}%)
| align="center" | 0 ({{roundup|{{expr:(0/{{expr:1+0+0}})*100}}}}%)
|}

This would be a quick reference tool for archive able purposes. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:22, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

== Possible Application ==
If we ever had a "polling station" or other centrally located article that had links to all the current polls/debates/etc. that were going on, such a summary (with a link to the actual debate) might be handy for getting an idea of where things were at. Unfortunately, you do end up risking sync issues (if the summaries aren't updated). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 06:39, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

When: To end 6 days from now. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:57, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
Support Reached: Figure out where this tenmplate can be used.

# [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]] - {{oppose}} I'm not too much a fan of polling. If there was a technical way we could implement this (say, a simple to use form that would update the counts), then I may support such an endeavor. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 02:24, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] -
# [[User:Day|Day]] - {{oppose}} I see this as a needless complication with enough potential hazards and real drawbacks which remain unbalanced by the good it would do. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:20, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] -
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] -
# [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] -
# [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] -

Note: All users are welcome to partake in the voting as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 02:26, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

# {{Support}} Modified Use Below --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:33, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# {{Oppose}} [[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:06, 19 July 2006 (CDT) - Agree with Joe and Day above; I think it would decrease discussion

=== Comments ===

Could be then as simple as '''<nowiki>{{pollvote|Question|Support|Oppose|Neturl}}</nowiki>''' and never have to worry about user input... so get rid of the "question", "time", "users", and "dates tarted". That's an idea. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:33, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

: But what's the point without auto-updating percentages/numbers? And ''with'' auto-updating numbers, I'd be wary of the potential for lame, dumb bugs. I'm sure they could be ferreted out, but I don't see there being much of a pay off at all for the amount of work it could be. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 14:58, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Language in the Twelve Colonies/Archive3

2006-07-19T07:28:28Z

Day: Clean-Up

==Radio Alphabet==

''Discussions moved to [[Talk:Colonial Wireless Alphabet]] by [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] at 20:07, 10 October 2005 (EDT).''

==Aerelon Accent==
:''(It is probably some subtle nuance that a Colonial character like Baltar could notice, but that is indistinguishable from an American accent to the audience).''

No, listen. None of these characters are actually speaking English. The whole thing is a conceit to make it intelligable to the viewer. I'm sure that in the fictional universe of BSG, Boomer does speak with a "trace of an Aerelon accent", but since the show chooses to represent this as Standard American English, there's little point speculating about phonological variations that we can't hear. It's not a matter of Baltar being able to hear something we can't, the showmakers have just chosen not to give us the information. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:38, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

: Yeah. I tend to agree. My agreement is influenced by a couple of things in addition to the above.

: '''One:''' I have a BA in Linguistics. I know a bit about accents and the sounds of human speech, etc. I'm also somewhat used to hearing differences in sounds that most Anglophones aren't used to (like distinctions that are meaningful in other languages, but not in English). These two things make it hard for me to believe that, after reading about this theory and listening to Boomer speak with the purpose of hearing an accent, I'd somehow be unable to hear it simply because I'm ''missing'' it.

: '''Two:''' I'm a rather large Tolkien dork and am familiar with the idea of "translating" something into English for the benefit of English-speaking viewers (to say nothing of over-dubbed versions of this show for non-English-speaking viewers. Additionally, being familiar with Tolkien's special flavor of language-centric crazy, I don't get that, well, vibe from RDM. He seems much more interested in the story and the cinematics than correctly representing the names of people from Dale as corrupted Old English names in order to show their long-ago linguistic connection to the Rohirrim, whose language is tacitly represented by Old English--as he should be.

: If, for whatever reason, the BSG production/directoral staff were interested in drawing parallels to Colonial accents with the use of English accents, it would be much more apparent. What is more likely is, as Peter posits, they aren't giving us the information. That's been screened out if for no other reason than the fact that they didn't really think about it. It's not a big deal. I think this is evidenced by Baltar's remark about Boomer's accent, actually. If they were keeping tabs of language enough to care about accents, they would realise the extreme unlikelihood that even a stereotypically recognized majority of an entire planet's population would have an accent that was the same. I mean--What's the most common (and thus, best seen as stereotypically Earthly) accent on our world? Chinese. Which is, you know, not precisely an accent. ;o)

: I think, actually, that the BSG crew ''are'' paying attention to accents, however. It's just not in a way that identifies characters geographically or--whatever. They pick accents that will predispose American and British (and, thus, probably Australian) viewers to certain preconceptions about their characters. Baltar speaks, more or less, the Queen's English, which will predispose Westerners to assume he's intelligent, wealthy, well bred and well educated. Baltar ''is'' these things. Kara Thrace speaks pretty standard American English and does it with a fairly high volume. She assumes the stereotypes of the loud American, so to speak. Notice, too, that the reporter had an English accent. At the end of her documentary, I half expected her to say, "This is D'anna Whatever, BBC news." I don't even ''get'' the BBC in Texas.

: This is getting absurdly lengthy. I apologize. I tend to do this when words are at issue. Anyway, one final point: I don't think the same thing can be neccesarily said for "race". Since where your genes are from, geographically, is a rather more visual thing, I tend to think that this would more easily occur to a TV producer as something worth keeping track of. That doesn't mean that it did and they are, but that most of my arguements here don't apply to that case much. I'll, ah, I'm done now. ;o) --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:31, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

::Well said. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:01, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

It is true that Grace Park is a fluent speaker of Korean, but her English--either as Sharon Valerii or as herself in interviews--bears no trace of a Korean accent whatsoever. I am married to a native Korean speaker, have friends and colleagues who speak Korean either as their first or second language, and have been studying the language for a few years myself, so I am absolutely certain that Korean has no bearing on what might or might not be considered an Aerelon accent. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]]

:I tend to agree, but felt like someone would bring up her bilingualism inevitably and that it would be better to address it directly. If Grace Park (and thus Boomer) has a trace of ''any'' accent, it ought to be Korean, so I felt it worth a mention. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:31, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

::You said that Grace Park's bilingualism would come up eventually. I would recommend limiting discussions of her bilingualism to the actress' bio page. The label "Korean" doesn't meaningfully describe anything that's going on when Sharon/Boomer is speaking. My own Korean is getting good enough that I'm approaching true "bilingual" status, but nobody would use "Korean" to describe my English. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]]

:::Discussing Park's bilingualism on the actress' bio page would not shed any insight for a reader of this page, nor would it allay any questions that such knowledge might raise. I understand that her spoken english is flawless, but the fact that it is not actually her first language is at least marginally relevant here, and is given the footnote it deserves.

:::As for her "northwestern" accent, I don't truly believe that that's any different from General American / Standard Midwestern - the only phonological difference I can think of is the caught/cot merger, which is too subtle to deserve the name "accent". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:00, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: Perhaps it should be specifically noted here that her Korean fluency doesn't seem to have any impact whatsoever on her English accent. I agree with Peter that it's important to note it here, so that someone who doesn't know any better doesn't come along and think we missed that point and that they've solved our problem by mentioning a (non-existant) Korean accent. Sometimes, when you are making an argument or assertion, you have to mention some things that are, really, irrelevant in order to make clear that they are, indeed, irrelevant so that others will not wrongly think that they are. Make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:08, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

::::I was just about to say something like that. Thanks, Day! --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 03:10, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Tried to make it a little more forceful. You can tell that this wiki is great because we spend whole evenings discussing single sentences. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:18, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::: Nice edit. And I hope you were being serious. I spent a lot of time in college working on a print publication and for the last couple years, I was the Editor in Chief (kind of a joke because there were only six of us on staff). In any case, it was a humor publication and sometimes we'd spend hours debating about the wording of a single sentence in order to deliver the most punch. It almost always paid off. In this case, we're not looking to be funny, but I still think it pays to make sure a sentence communicates exactly the information we intend: no more and no less. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:48, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::: Quite serious. Concision is nothing without precision. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:48, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::: So, you're not really the Concision Fairy. You're the Concision/Percision Fairy. Which is less concise, but more precise. Maybe you're the (Con|Pre)cision Fairy. Phleh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:16, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

==Racetrack==
Is it just me or does Racetrack have a vaguely Canadian accent in her scene on the Raptor early in [[Final Cut]]? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:10, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

==Stating the obvious==

:''Mister (Mr), Miss, and Doctor have all been used, but Missus {Mrs} has not.''

The concision fairy frowns in disapproval. Why is this interesting? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:26, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

Nothing much since we haven't seen anyone married. Given the gender equality in BSG, however, it may well be that "Mrs" is not used. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 17:20, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

==Valley Girl Accent==

[[User:Day|Day]] and I believe that [[Pythia]] likely spoke with [[Wikipedia:High rising terminal|High rising terminal]]s, also known as a "valley girl accent". We have concluded this based on the fact that no less than 67% of the direct quotes from her book of prophecy begin with the coordinating conjunction "and", as in the following passage:

"And, like, the lords anointed a leader to like, guide the Caravan of the Heavens to their new homeland?, and, like, unto the leader they gave a vision of serpents numbering two and ten?, as like, a sign of things to come?, which is like, totally spooky. And then, like, the Arrow of Apollo will open the Tomb of Athena, which is totally ''boss'', but Zeus like, got all uppity and warned the leaders of the twelve tribes that any return to Kobol would exact a price in blood, which is totally ''gross'', 'cause blood is gross, y'know? And like, a real ''bummer'', since Kobol is hot shit."

So say we all. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:19, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

: NO, that was meant to sound religious, in the tone of "And the number shall be "three". "Four" be too many, and "two" be too few (unless though then proceedeth to "three"). "Five" is right out. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005

::The effect is, as noted, somewhat different when you read them all out in a list. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:39, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

:::Damn both of you. My deykoard is ruimed from spittake effect with kola! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:03, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

==General American==
On a somewhat smaller matter, there is no linguistically accepted version of English called "General English," with a capital G. I am willing to accept a lower case g, "general English," to indicate "common sense" notions about the accent/group of accents. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]]

:You are correct. The article previously referred to Standard American English (SAE), which I have encountered in contrast to African American Vernacular English (AAVE) in sociolinguistics. As I'm sure you can tell, I intend to refer to the midwestern "newscaster accent" used throughout the entertainment industry.

:As for Wikipedia, they referred to this accent as [[Wikipedia:Standard Midwestern|Standard Midwestern]] until last February. It was then [[Wikipedia:Talk:General American#move to "General American"?|moved]] to [[Wikipedia:General American|General American]] based on [[Wikipedia:User:Angr|User:Angr]]'s statement that "the accent is not standard in any official sense, nor is it limited to the Midwest."

:Since they are serving as our primary reference, I am inclined to follow their conventions on the matter. Perhaps you could take up your point with them? I realize that we are not powerless to employ our own terminology, but consistancy strikes me as a self-evident virtue. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:31, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Sigh. General American bothers me. I'd ''much'' prefer Standard American English. I mean--that's a term that linguists use when discussing American accents. I wish Wikipedia had a page entitled that, but I don't want to get into a land war there (or, really anything there as time is finite). A few things have to be understood about SAE (or, as it stands, General English):

:: 1) It doesn't really exist as a spoken dialect. No one grows up learning SAE the way one can grow up speaking Texan English or any of the various sub-dialects of AAVE or whatever. However, Americans seem to be able to sense what it is. This is still under research.

:: 2) When used in a non-scholastic setting (like this wiki), saying someone speaks SAE generally means that the region they learned English in is not identifyable by the way they speak. Apollo speaks SAE, for instance. However, Jamie Baber or however it's spellt, is British and really speaks some form of British English dialect (I've not heard him speak myself).

:: With these two trhings in mind, using a term like SAE to refer to dislects of characters is perfectly fine. I mean--the dialect is a kind of mental construct and so doesn't really exist and the characters, likewise, don't really exist. ;) Okay. That was a joke. My problem with the term "General American" is that I've never seen it before in a linguistic context. "Standard American English" is a term used in all caps like that in many texts by various authors. I'm tired and I think I'm losing coherancy. Does my point about, for lack of a better word, officialness come across clearly? I sure hope so. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:04, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

:::I would be happy to have the relevant links marked as Standard American English and go to Wiki's General American article through pipes. The term General American was introduced on October 8th by [[User:Troyian|Troyian]] - I'd like to know if he is personally in favor of the term, or was just matching wikipedia's terminology. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:09, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

==Sanskrit to do==
*Link to credible text repository & audio recording.
*Transliterate Sanskrit properly, using IAST. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:53, 14 November 2005 (EST)

Hopefully the Don Davis sources may be of help to others in further translation from his Matrix Revolutions tracks (noted in our article now). Enlightening stuff--I use the "Navras" track and its chant in my daily workouts--gets my heart rate up. I was wondering why Elosha's chant seemed so damned familiar, and now I know why. Wild how my favorite SF topics and music merge like this. Speaking of which, I think a music article on BSG will be due sometime... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:09, 14 November 2005 (EST)

:Am I the only one who finds this matrix stuff to be badly off-topic? Davis's transliteration isn't very good, either. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:04, 14 November 2005 (EST)

::I'm going to strike this. If anyone wants to make a note of the coincidence on the references page, that would be fine. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:12, 14 November 2005 (EST)

==Other Accents==
:What about all of the Canadian accents? I'm no linguist, but the way Tigh speaks sounds very different to the way Adama speaks. Besides, many characters on the show are played by Canadian actors like Aaron Douglas, Tricia Helfer, and Tahmoh Penikett, each with varying degrees of accent. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:51, 17 January 2006 (EST)

::Many Canadian accents are very similar to the Midwestern SAE used in Hollywood. If you can name a character with a particularly strong accent, I'd be happy to identify them here, but Hogan, Douglas, Helfer and Penikett don't seem to fit the bill.

::Note that place of origin and accent do not necessarily coincide - nobody would claim that Lee Adama speaks with a British Accent, although Jamie Bamber certainly does. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:32, 17 January 2006 (EST)

:::I've always felt that Hogan's accent is somewhat obvious, but again, I'm not much experienced with Canadian-accented English. (I only know two or three Canadians myself.) Besides, you make a good point: even if Hogan's accent ''is'' strong enough to be considered noticable, it is no where near as different from SAE as, say, Baltar's. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 21:35, 17 January 2006 (EST)

:::: For me, Tigh's just got a few words that stick out. Unfortunately, the only word that comes to mind off the top of my head is one that doesn't really exist: Kobol. Everyone else says it as if it were some American saying Co-Ball (['kou.'bol]) or something (equal stress on both syllables), whereas he seems to say ['kou.bl] (with the syllabic l at the end). That's hack-IPA, there, because I've yet to take the time to figure out the way the thingie for it works, here. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:51, 17 January 2006 (EST)

:Michael Hogan may be Canadian, but his accent sounds to my ears more like American Irish. The Canadian accent at any rate owes a lot to Celtic influences (that "aboot" that Canadians say is straight from Scotland/Northern Ireland), so it's possible that it's Canadian but it doesn't sounds like Canadian accents that I'm familiar with. The name "Tigh" is Gaelic for "house". He's also a drinker. So my sense is that his character has been outfitted with a Scots/Irish-American persona. For what it's worth, I'm a Scot living in the States myself, and profoundly lacking in confidence in the average American's ability to recognize accents. I'd say 95% of Americans guess that I'm Irish, when no one from the UK or Ireland would make that mistake.--Haecceity

==Texas Accent==
Y'know, Baltar's Six definitely refers to his "nucular device" in "[[Epiphanies]]". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:49, 21 January 2006 (EST)

: Actually, that's not a Texas thing. We talked about that specifically in one of my classes, since that's such a common misconception due to G. W. Bush's hailing from our state and and pronouncing it thus. Apparently that's common in many Southern dialects (as in "The South" which includes states as far north as Virginia, but not, say, New Mexico). Not that Texas is really ''excluded'' from that list, I just thought I'd point out that it's more common than many city-dwellers think (including myself before I attended the afore mentioned lecture). Personally, I say it "NEW-clee-er" only slightly more often than "NEW-cue-ler". I feel like I"m rambling on, so I won't go into what factors contribute to a dialect switching the L and the following vowel in this word. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:57, 21 January 2006 (EST)

::Sounding off for a minute: the pronunciation is officially "New-clee-er", and Bush is yet again and embarrassment for pronouncing it wrong, then refusing to correct himself because he believes that he is infallible. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]]

::: See, now you're gonna start arguing right and wrong with a [[Wikipedia:Descriptive linguistics|descriptive linguist]]. We're not your [[Wikipedia:Prescription and description|prescriptive]] Highschool English teacher. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:29, 22 January 2006 (EST)

==Names==
I don't think its worthwhile to discuss the "meaning" of names that were borrowed from TOS here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:17, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:Not sure that's entirely true (obviously :-) ), since in several cases Larson clearly borrowed those names from Hebrew/Greek himself, deliberately, and RDM is following in his footsteps.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 23:20, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::I think we need to edit down "Names" a lot for relevance/concision. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:58, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:::I can accept that—some days I'm good at concision, other days, not so much. I'd actually originally intended to merely provide a couple of key examples, and I kinda got carried away :-)--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 10:14, 16 March 2006 (CST)
:::By the way, Merv—thank you for your additions/clarifications to the names. And you may be right about the Roslin entry not really being highly relevant. I'll admit I just thought it was an amusing coincidence. And it may be more relevant than you think. The Cylons are clones, of a sort (albeit not clones of real human beings, but of 12 synthesized templates), and a Cylon-hybrid child saved Roslin's life... OK. It's a stretch :-) I can be convinced to remove the Roslin entry without much arm-twisting.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 13:21, 16 March 2006 (CST)
::::Well RDM saying he deliberatley chose Dualla and Gaeta's names knowing their meaning is from the podcast of "Final Cut"; I think the Zarek thing is from the companion book. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 17:08, 16 March 2006 (CST)

==French in the Colonies==
I wanted to point out that we recently realized that french is a spoken language in at least some of the Colonies. This is the first real language, other than english, that we see as present beyond accentuation. I guess you'll want proof? Here it is:

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/5766/wtfk1tn.jpg

On the Very top of the chalk board are the words :

*Aller ("to go")

*Avoir ("to have")

*Etres ("to be")

Three verbs of the French Language. Just Thought I'd mention it, since as far as I remember there is no other Earth Based Language which is seen beyond certain accents. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 04:37 June 06 2006

:Nice catch, Sauron. Actually, the prayer chant sung by [[Elosha]] at the end of the miniseries is a Sanskrit prayer, so that's two possible languages in the Colonies outside the accented suggestions. Your discovery should be an interesting one to add. Also, we see "NaOH", which I think is the chemical name for ammonia...curious that the Colonials use our chemical naming process, too... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:22, 6 June 2006 (CDT)
::sodium hydroxide ^_^ --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 13:33, 6 June 2006 (CDT)
:::It looks like it's part of an equation. X + NaOH yields -> Y. This does appear to be the first written instance of foreign language. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:36, 6 June 2006 (CDT)

::::Ugh...stereochemistry (shudder). Oh, well the only other "french" thing we've got in BSG is when Stinger says "esprit de corps" in "Pegasus", but I think that and the LDYB II blackboard thing are just mistakes. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:59, 6 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::I don't think they're any more mistakes then talking of dogs horses and such. There's no reason why languages other than english can exist within the Colonies. Might even be a second language to them since they're teaching it to preschoolers--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:05 June 06 2006

:Very nice find, Sauron. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:39, 6 June 2006 (CDT)

== Clean-Up ==

Anything in particular, or just in general? I always look at an article's talk page when I see a delete or clean-up tag and I'm often annoyed because the tagger hasn't posted about why they tagged. I'm not looking for an exhaustive list, just maybe the direction you think the article should be headed or something. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:28, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Episode Standardization

2006-07-19T07:24:55Z

Day: /* Vote */

Well I agree in general but could you point out specifically what you'd like to standardize? For example, I mean like pick one episode article in particular and say what about it should be standardized but more importantly ''how''.

I myself was going to propose something like "standardize the Analysis sections", but I think that would fall under this: '''Our Analysis sections are in great need of standardization, but I was reluctant to change them myself for fear of ruffling feathers'''.----------------->Case in point, the Analysis for "[[Colonial Day]]" is...incredibly POV: this isn't a blog where we're writing an "episode review" in the Analysis section, Analysis is more for theorizing and pointing out trends. I mean yes like in Black Market we can point out "this episode has a lot of problems", but I think I tried to keep it to a minumum in there. ----->With everyone I've ever seen Colonial Day with at DVD parties and such, or on BSG messageboards, Colonial Day ranks as one of the favorites of Season 1. By the late season they really got good at scripting for the characters. But the analysis section of Colonial Day says right on the front line flatly that "This is the most poorly-conceived and executed episode in BSG's first season". It's POV for *me* to say I like it, but I still think that objectively, yes it had a good script I've already marked it for cleanup.

So I don't know specifically what you wanted to standardize about the episode guides, but the Analysis section is something I've been meaning to fix up, but was afraid about consensus for. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:25, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

:What really started me on this is that the first season episodes have the summary from Sci-Fi channel (which should I think should be in the episode article until it is aired). Those kind of things. Also, going back through "Questions" is probably a good idea. At least make the articles all "look" the same. However, you are correct about the "Analysis" section. I think that it is a fine line between "Analysis" and "Speculation" (which I personally unintentionally drift toward). We can add "Analysis" specifically to this project if you wish or it can be done as a followup. Do you have a particular article that you think the "Analysis" is a good example of "how-to"? I just think that if we have an "example" article, it would save on some discussions on individual articles. I made the proposal "thin" so others can add ideas to it. This is not "my" project, but something I am proposing from "us" to do. Also, I too have been thinking about how to rewrite the [[Colonial Day]] analysis which is clearly biased. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:18, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

Is the Think Tank really the best place for this? [[BW:SC]] is where we usually deal with standardization issues. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:33, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

::Yes, it's not so much a new policy as enforcing old ones more strictly. I'll bring up this discussion there. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:16, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

:::I think this wasn't proposing the standards (which are pretty much BW:SC) but proposing a project page/organized effort to methodically go through the existing ones and enforce them. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:24, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::::Oh, I see. I have no objection to that. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:45, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

== Massive Edit ==
I made some changes to the proposal to reflect some of what was discussed above. FrankieG, please change anything that I misstated. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:35, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:Sounds great to me. Thanks for clarifying. I just wanted to get the ball rolling. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:07, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::I'll get on this as soon as I'm done with my other 5 big projects. :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:41, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

:::You can do it. You're the "Merv" ;-). I don't my doing the work, just need a lot of guidance. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:13, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

Right-o. This sounds to me to be kind of parallel to the Characters project. It would not outline guidelines, but be a kind of planning room for organized enforcement of them, as outlined in S&C. I think this is a good idea. I had, long ago, thought about proposing this, but wasn't sure as there's the template that seems to be in use and I'd just recently created S&C (didn't want to get in over my head, yeah?). This would help target specific, problematic episode articles and also probably help determine if any of the S&C regarding episodes need to be clarified, altered or created. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 15:06, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote? ==
Since there don't appear to be any remaining objections to this, should we go ahead and put it to the one-week vote? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:40, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

Vote to do what? We didn't agree on anything specific yet (I think). I'm going to smooth out what I think how things should be organized, and we'll see if they're fitting. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:54, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:Mostly I was referring to the "creation of a project" part. To go ahead and create the project page and start hashing out the standards/guidelines/worklist/archetype, etc. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:16, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
::Give me 26 hours. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:20, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Why 26 hours? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:50, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
::::(Turning on my mind reading cap.) I got the impression he had more thoughts/organization/structure that he was working on and planning to present here. I guess 26 hours seemed like a nice round number. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:55, 17 July 2006 (CDT)

::: I'm confused... Where should I be looking for the fruits of Merv's labors of organizing, etc.? I feel pretty ready to vote on this. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 00:19, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
:::: I think that a just a vote to proceed before we get into the details. However, it seems clear that most feel like this needs to be done. Just formalize it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:21, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
::::: 26 hours is almost up anyways...--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:30, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
::::: 26 hours has passed. starting voting process. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:09, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

Ending date: 5 days from now... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:09, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
Support Result: Creation of project page [[BW:ES]] to hash out ideas.

# [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]] - {{support}} Let's create this. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:36, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] -
# [[User:Day|Day]] - {{support}} I don't know that I'll ''contribute'' to this project, but I dont feel the need to stop others. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:24, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] -
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] -
# [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] - {{Support}} I'm game, even for "1980." If ''Star Trek'' can make sense of itself, so can we. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:44, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] - {{Support}} One episode guide to rule them all... (maybe eventually even the 1980 ones). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:34, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

Also, despite there being a list of admins above, all regular contributors may vote as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:38, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

# {{Support}} --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:13, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
# {{Support}} --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:16, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/CSS Layout

2006-07-19T07:22:40Z

Day: /* Vote */ clean up joke.

I don't understand; what is this and where can I see an example? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:09, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:The most basic define is: '''Cascading Style Sheets. Language used to describe how an HTML document should be formatted'''. So all you would have to do is:
<pre>
{| class="infobox"
|-
| This is an info box...
|}
</pre>
and the "CSS File" has an "infobox" define with different style parameters. So you don't have to know CSS, all you have to do is the "class". Also the CSS "package" includes a design update of some of the elemsnts of the "layout". Like the Left navagation area, default colors, etc, etc. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:17, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::Well okay, but what I see on the Hangar Bay thing doesn't look like a massive redesign: am I looking at the right thing?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:43, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Look at the footer, the left navagation (the icons will not show because it's not on the main "root" yet. The Yellow links where "My Talk" is. The Yellow Tabs. The Editing and New Article Creation look different. The Prefences look different. Red no longer exists, unless it's a non created page. Stuff like that. There are very few artiles that have been created, but there are no images on that wiki.

*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/33
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Miniseries
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Anastasia_Dualla
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Special:Recentchanges

Alot of the changes you can not see unless you create a dummy account on the Hangerbay. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:53, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I have two major problems here.
#I'm personally quite fond of monobook, and I don't care for the redesign featured at the hangar bay; and although an intense design critique could improve it, I don't think it's worth our energy. The leads to my second point:
#Monobook, and other projects which we inherit from the MediaWiki project, are worked on and approved by large groups with more design sense, creativity, and enthusiasm than we can ever hope to muster on our small corner of the internet. To think otherwise strikes me as hubris. This is one of those situations where I vastly prefer deferring to other experts rather than trying to do something ourselves.
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

:I agree. I like what we already have, and it would be a lot of energy for a comparatively minor change. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:59, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
::Forget to mention... there is a second skin that is int he Monobook colors with the same design. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:06, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I think that the reason this proposal looks weak, is because Shane is not displaying the power of CSS. Switching to CSS is an investment in the future. It would make lay-out design changes MUCH easier after adopting it. If all info-boxes look as they do because they're labeled "infobox" in the HTML (as generated by MediaWiki), then should we want to change how they look, we can change it in one place and they all get updated. So, that's, maybe, not so spiffy. Here's the catch; to me, the selling point. We also have an "infobox" description in the monobook css file that tells infoboxes how to look. A user picks which CSS file they want to use in preferences (this is, actually, already how the different "skins" work, it's just a matter of personalizing the CSS files referenced in prefs).

I don't agree with Peter (GASP!) that we should let the experts handle this one. Our needs are different from those of Wikipedia at times and so it would behoove us to decide for ourselves on some things. I, personally, think this is one of those things. There are a lot of common lay-out elements we user over and over that could be standardized and centralized into the CSS files.

''Also'', it is my understanding that the CSS files are editable via the Wiki interface. I'll have to do some more research, but I think, if we know the name of the file, we can edit a page of that same name and that information gets appended to the page (so there'd be one page like this for each skin). I may be misunderstanding this, however.

What would make me feel better about this proposal is:
* No change in aesthetics being tied to moving to CSS. That's a separate argument.
* Equal treatment of CSS for other skins (I.e. we should personalize ''all'' the css files).
* More research into whether or not the css files can be edited via wiki interface. This is, I think, very important.

Also, Shane, would you provide a link here (for quick reference) to the css file you're working with so that those of us that can read css can scan through it? Thanks. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:58, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'll dig up the link. -- [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:33, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:The use of CSS isn't at issue - MediaWiki already produces very clean markup which can be styled practically at will. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:37, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:: Yes, Peter, but most of our styling is done in-line, which doesn't lend itsself to standardization. For instance, all the places where color is specified in-line need to be given classes and those classes added to each .css we have. Maybe I'm entirely misunderstanding Shane's proposal and I need to make my own to this purpose. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 16:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:::I understood that Shane wanted to replace our current default skin outright with the version on display at the hangar bar. I agree that inline styles in templates should be done away with. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:33, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::This is the "CSS" file being used right now on the Hangerbay: http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/skins/bsgbook/main.css Now all the elements Above the line:
<pre>
/**
* Custom Elements for Battlestar Wiki "Design"; These do not appear with MediaWiki Default
**/
</pre>
are the MediaWiki "tags" with the BSG Colors. Everything below are customs tags to "objects" and styles we have created from the "main page" redesign and other misc. custom elements already created on this wiki. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:42, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Thanks for the link, Shane. I'll look over it when I get the time. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 16:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Monobook example ==
The monobook example is looking a LOT better. Kind of have to squint your eyes and imagine what it'd look like with images. Also, the more artistic/interface minded might pipe in if you have any color scheme suggestions. Engineers always end up doing far more interface work than they really ought to. The light blue was a suggestion based off of some of wikipedia's pages.--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:19, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

When: 6 days from now... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:56, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
Support Reached: CSS be installed or [[BW:CSS]] be created to show examples of code before it gets installed; Edit pages that matter

# [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]] -
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] -
# [[User:Day|Day]] - <nowiki>{{confused}}</nowiki> How can we support or oppose something that is multiple choice? I would support a project page for working on the CSS use on this site. I would oppose installing the CSS as it stands over at the demo site. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:22, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] -
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] -
# [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] -
# [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] -

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/CSS Layout

2006-07-19T07:22:09Z

Day: /* Vote */

I don't understand; what is this and where can I see an example? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:09, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:The most basic define is: '''Cascading Style Sheets. Language used to describe how an HTML document should be formatted'''. So all you would have to do is:
<pre>
{| class="infobox"
|-
| This is an info box...
|}
</pre>
and the "CSS File" has an "infobox" define with different style parameters. So you don't have to know CSS, all you have to do is the "class". Also the CSS "package" includes a design update of some of the elemsnts of the "layout". Like the Left navagation area, default colors, etc, etc. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:17, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::Well okay, but what I see on the Hangar Bay thing doesn't look like a massive redesign: am I looking at the right thing?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:43, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Look at the footer, the left navagation (the icons will not show because it's not on the main "root" yet. The Yellow links where "My Talk" is. The Yellow Tabs. The Editing and New Article Creation look different. The Prefences look different. Red no longer exists, unless it's a non created page. Stuff like that. There are very few artiles that have been created, but there are no images on that wiki.

*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/33
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Miniseries
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Anastasia_Dualla
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Special:Recentchanges

Alot of the changes you can not see unless you create a dummy account on the Hangerbay. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:53, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I have two major problems here.
#I'm personally quite fond of monobook, and I don't care for the redesign featured at the hangar bay; and although an intense design critique could improve it, I don't think it's worth our energy. The leads to my second point:
#Monobook, and other projects which we inherit from the MediaWiki project, are worked on and approved by large groups with more design sense, creativity, and enthusiasm than we can ever hope to muster on our small corner of the internet. To think otherwise strikes me as hubris. This is one of those situations where I vastly prefer deferring to other experts rather than trying to do something ourselves.
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

:I agree. I like what we already have, and it would be a lot of energy for a comparatively minor change. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:59, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
::Forget to mention... there is a second skin that is int he Monobook colors with the same design. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:06, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I think that the reason this proposal looks weak, is because Shane is not displaying the power of CSS. Switching to CSS is an investment in the future. It would make lay-out design changes MUCH easier after adopting it. If all info-boxes look as they do because they're labeled "infobox" in the HTML (as generated by MediaWiki), then should we want to change how they look, we can change it in one place and they all get updated. So, that's, maybe, not so spiffy. Here's the catch; to me, the selling point. We also have an "infobox" description in the monobook css file that tells infoboxes how to look. A user picks which CSS file they want to use in preferences (this is, actually, already how the different "skins" work, it's just a matter of personalizing the CSS files referenced in prefs).

I don't agree with Peter (GASP!) that we should let the experts handle this one. Our needs are different from those of Wikipedia at times and so it would behoove us to decide for ourselves on some things. I, personally, think this is one of those things. There are a lot of common lay-out elements we user over and over that could be standardized and centralized into the CSS files.

''Also'', it is my understanding that the CSS files are editable via the Wiki interface. I'll have to do some more research, but I think, if we know the name of the file, we can edit a page of that same name and that information gets appended to the page (so there'd be one page like this for each skin). I may be misunderstanding this, however.

What would make me feel better about this proposal is:
* No change in aesthetics being tied to moving to CSS. That's a separate argument.
* Equal treatment of CSS for other skins (I.e. we should personalize ''all'' the css files).
* More research into whether or not the css files can be edited via wiki interface. This is, I think, very important.

Also, Shane, would you provide a link here (for quick reference) to the css file you're working with so that those of us that can read css can scan through it? Thanks. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:58, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'll dig up the link. -- [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:33, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:The use of CSS isn't at issue - MediaWiki already produces very clean markup which can be styled practically at will. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:37, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:: Yes, Peter, but most of our styling is done in-line, which doesn't lend itsself to standardization. For instance, all the places where color is specified in-line need to be given classes and those classes added to each .css we have. Maybe I'm entirely misunderstanding Shane's proposal and I need to make my own to this purpose. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 16:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:::I understood that Shane wanted to replace our current default skin outright with the version on display at the hangar bar. I agree that inline styles in templates should be done away with. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:33, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::This is the "CSS" file being used right now on the Hangerbay: http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/skins/bsgbook/main.css Now all the elements Above the line:
<pre>
/**
* Custom Elements for Battlestar Wiki "Design"; These do not appear with MediaWiki Default
**/
</pre>
are the MediaWiki "tags" with the BSG Colors. Everything below are customs tags to "objects" and styles we have created from the "main page" redesign and other misc. custom elements already created on this wiki. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:42, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Thanks for the link, Shane. I'll look over it when I get the time. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 16:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Monobook example ==
The monobook example is looking a LOT better. Kind of have to squint your eyes and imagine what it'd look like with images. Also, the more artistic/interface minded might pipe in if you have any color scheme suggestions. Engineers always end up doing far more interface work than they really ought to. The light blue was a suggestion based off of some of wikipedia's pages.--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:19, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

When: 6 days from now... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:56, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
Support Reached: CSS be installed or [[BW:CSS]] be created to show examples of code before it gets installed; Edit pages that matter

# [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]] -
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] -
# [[User:Day|Day]] - {{confused}} How can we support or oppose something that is multiple choice? I would support a project page for working on the CSS use on this site. I would oppose installing the CSS as it stands over at the demo site. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:22, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] -
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] -
# [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] -
# [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] -

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Poll Template

2006-07-19T07:20:12Z

Day: /* Vote */

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Star of Kobol

2006-07-19T07:18:12Z

Day: /* Vote */

[[Image:SOK-Pip.png|31px]]

I got this information from an image from Steelviper. This is normally a huge file, but will be re-uploaded once the design elements are finshed. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:47, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

I think it'd be a good idea to have a formal award system for commending any editor (admin or not) for exceptional achievements. If awarded, a tag similar to the featured article tag could be placed on their user page, which would place a little ribbon/decoration in the upper right. Clicking on the award would take you to a citation that narrates the specific circumstances under which that particular award was given. I think that the "shiny", without the story, isn't as meaningful. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:50, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

: I concur, SV. Or, at the least, it could be a mouse-over effect. But we definately should chronical what, specifically, a SoK was awarded for. Wasn't the TOS Star of Kobol a bunch of triangles pointing different directions? I coulda sworn... --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:32, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:: When I got the iamge from SV, it was really looking hard with my eyes on the screen to the design. There might be another set of triangles but smaller. It's really hard to pick out though. lol. Best I could do, unless there is another source of the Star of Kobol. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:34, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
::Shane posted a little [[:Image:Starcollage.jpg|collage]] I put together over at the [[Star of Kobol]]. It's kind of hard to see (at best). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:36, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:Day: The "SOK" could goto BW:SOK/Day where it would be listed. I am not sure that I can indivuate more than one "SOK" nomenation with one image. Steelsuggested a oakcluster (bronze through gold) just like the miltary. bronze = 1, silver = 5, gold = 10. Depening on what can be done. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 07:39, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

In my mind, this should be a strictly informal "kudos", like a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Barnstars|Barnstar]] - just post the image to someone's user talk page when you feel like they've earned it, and they can then choose to display it on their user page proper. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:52, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

We can create as many mouse-over things as we wish: create a with a title field set and modern browsers will display that text when you mouse over it. Like this. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 15:43, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

Like... [[Image:SOK-Pip.png|31px]] [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:09, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

Close Date: To end from 6 days from now. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:00, 18 July 2006 (CDT)
Action if Support: Create [[BW:STAR]] and hash out guidelines there.

# [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]] -
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] -
# [[User:Day|Day]] - {{support}} A lot needs to be nailed down before we actually implement this, but I think the idea is defined enough to do the rest of the hashing out on a project page. This has been a long time coming. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:18, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] -
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] -
# [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] -
# [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] -

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/New User Survey

2006-07-19T07:15:15Z

Day: /* Thoughts */

This is a nice idea. Can you mock up a prototype on your proposal page? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:57, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:? [[BW:NEW]]? Can't give [[BW:TANK|any implmentations]], Sorry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:04, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
::Maybe you could list some of the questions you had in mind? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:17, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:::My questions are not the question of subject of the proposel. I am looking for project approval. The questions can be hashed out inside the '[[BW:TANK|approced project]]'. Since the project is not approved, I can not give my questions which would be on the project page. Plus when I orginal created the page, I could not think of any questions. That is why they are TBD. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:28, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
::::I'd really like to see this idea more fleshed out before we approve it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:41, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

== Questions ==

# How did you get to this ''Wiki''? (If it was a Search engine, which one and what were the terms.)
# How long did it take you to get to this [[BW:NEW|Survey]]?
# What was your main reason for regestring on this ''Wiki''? (Full Time Contributer, [[BW:PROJ|Project Idea]], or Minor Edit. Why?)
# Was the [[Main Page|main page]] content usefull when you first came to the site? ([[Main Page|Have you visited it yet?]])
# What, if any, feature has striken you has amazing so far?

== Questions Reasons ==
Question 1: Simply put, this is how we are with visability on the web.

Question 2: See if people are reading the "Welcome" message when we first send them a message.

Question 3: Why did they sign up in the first place...

Question 4: See if the [[BW:MAIN]] page needs fixing or if the content needs to be updated more offten

Question 5: See if anything caught their interest. '''Project Visiability'''

----

These questions gives users no idea in what they are answering so they answer better when it's more genearl than specific, unless we are looking for something. (i.e. Question #1) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:06, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Question Thoughts ==
How about missing features or navigation issues? (Get a little constructive criticism maybe?) Would a link to this survey be sent in a link upon registration? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:41, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:At first I would only link it from the {{tl|welcome}} template to see if anyone runs with the idea. See if people are notcing their user pages in the first place. After we see that people are getting the link from the "Welcome", we could move it around. The idea is to have goal from different locations os we can see how the different resources are being used. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:44, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== New User Outreach ==
Overall, I think the concept of new user outreach cannot be emphasized enough. The wiki is too big for any one person (or small group of people) to manage, and the more contributors we have, the better. I know one of the things that helped me stick around was the note that Spencerian left (which I didn't even realize until later was likely copy and pasted). On a similar vein, I'd like to see us explore programs to reach out to the non-editors as well, although that is likely a topic for a different tank (I think). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:54, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Thoughts ==
Any thoughts on this now that some suggested ?'s have been put out? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:19, 17 July 2006 (CDT)

: I'm a bit tired right now, so I don't trust myself to think analytically about this, but I do wonder what the intended method is for reporting and gathering this information? Would we hunt down some free survey site and set ours up with publicly viewable results, or... What? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 00:08, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

:: It all be stored under [[BW:NEW]]. After a while we just archive the survey's. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:10, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Why is that not a redlink? I imagine that I may have honestly missed something, but I thought this whole idea was still under debate. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 00:24, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

::::Created before tank came along. Check the history. I been allowed to create examples without full right implementation. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:07, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Back onto the topic of technical details, is it intended that a new user be familiar enough with Wikicode to edit a page with survey answers correctly and without deleting something they oughtn't? Will the answers be multiple choice? If not, who will be in charge or interpreting the long answers into something that can be statistically meaningful? How will we deal with multiple new users anwering the same set of questions between archiving events? How much instruction is it reasonable to expect a new user to wade through regarding how to edit, what to edit, where to answer, etc. before actualing doing the answering? Not ''all'' of these need to be answered before work begins on this, but many do and all need to be addressed in some manner, at least. I await the input of others. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:15, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

To end 6 days from now. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:57, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

{{oppose}} I must oppose this project on the basis that I do not feel it is clearly enough defined. I like the general idea, but don't feel my above question about how it would work, in a technical sense, has been answered well enough. I have six days to change my vote, or rather, there remain six days to explain this to me to my satisfaction. (see above) --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:10, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/New User Survey

2006-07-19T07:10:54Z

Day: /* Vote */

This is a nice idea. Can you mock up a prototype on your proposal page? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:57, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:? [[BW:NEW]]? Can't give [[BW:TANK|any implmentations]], Sorry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:04, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
::Maybe you could list some of the questions you had in mind? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:17, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:::My questions are not the question of subject of the proposel. I am looking for project approval. The questions can be hashed out inside the '[[BW:TANK|approced project]]'. Since the project is not approved, I can not give my questions which would be on the project page. Plus when I orginal created the page, I could not think of any questions. That is why they are TBD. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:28, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
::::I'd really like to see this idea more fleshed out before we approve it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:41, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

== Questions ==

# How did you get to this ''Wiki''? (If it was a Search engine, which one and what were the terms.)
# How long did it take you to get to this [[BW:NEW|Survey]]?
# What was your main reason for regestring on this ''Wiki''? (Full Time Contributer, [[BW:PROJ|Project Idea]], or Minor Edit. Why?)
# Was the [[Main Page|main page]] content usefull when you first came to the site? ([[Main Page|Have you visited it yet?]])
# What, if any, feature has striken you has amazing so far?

== Questions Reasons ==
Question 1: Simply put, this is how we are with visability on the web.

Question 2: See if people are reading the "Welcome" message when we first send them a message.

Question 3: Why did they sign up in the first place...

Question 4: See if the [[BW:MAIN]] page needs fixing or if the content needs to be updated more offten

Question 5: See if anything caught their interest. '''Project Visiability'''

----

These questions gives users no idea in what they are answering so they answer better when it's more genearl than specific, unless we are looking for something. (i.e. Question #1) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:06, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Question Thoughts ==
How about missing features or navigation issues? (Get a little constructive criticism maybe?) Would a link to this survey be sent in a link upon registration? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:41, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:At first I would only link it from the {{tl|welcome}} template to see if anyone runs with the idea. See if people are notcing their user pages in the first place. After we see that people are getting the link from the "Welcome", we could move it around. The idea is to have goal from different locations os we can see how the different resources are being used. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:44, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== New User Outreach ==
Overall, I think the concept of new user outreach cannot be emphasized enough. The wiki is too big for any one person (or small group of people) to manage, and the more contributors we have, the better. I know one of the things that helped me stick around was the note that Spencerian left (which I didn't even realize until later was likely copy and pasted). On a similar vein, I'd like to see us explore programs to reach out to the non-editors as well, although that is likely a topic for a different tank (I think). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:54, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Thoughts ==
Any thoughts on this now that some suggested ?'s have been put out? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:19, 17 July 2006 (CDT)

: I'm a bit tired right now, so I don't trust myself to think analytically about this, but I do wonder what the intended method is for reporting and gathering this information? Would we hunt down some free survey site and set ours up with publicly viewable results, or... What? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 00:08, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

:: It all be stored under [[BW:NEW]]. After a while we just archive the survey's. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:10, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Why is that not a redlink? I imagine that I may have honestly missed something, but I thought this whole idea was still under debate. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 00:24, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

::::Created before tank came along. Check the history. I been allowed to create examples without full right implementation. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:07, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

== Vote ==

To end 6 days from now. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:57, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

{{oppose}} I must oppose this project on the basis that I do not feel it is clearly enough defined. I like the general idea, but don't feel my above question about how it would work, in a technical sense, has been answered well enough. I have six days to change my vote, or rather, there remain six days to explain this to me to my satisfaction. (see above) --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 02:10, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/New User Survey

2006-07-18T05:24:14Z

Day: /* Thoughts */

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Move Squad

2006-07-18T05:21:33Z

Day: /* Final? */

Suggestion: Automatically confer move priveleges on registered users after 100 edits? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:50, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
:I like that idea --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 13:44, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
:100 "usefull" edits. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:22, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
::Ugh. I'm loathe to count up individual edits to determine "usefullness". If by "useful", you mean non-spam/vandalism I would agree (although hopefully they'd be blocked long before they hit 100). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:25, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Yes. Let us say "100 non-vandal edits". I don't know how we'd even define useful. Fixing a single typo is useful, especially if they fixed a single typo in 100 different articles. That's a lot of proof-reading. And that's a ''minor'' edit. As long as we're not looking at 100 edits to link Canadian drugs or whatever, I think we're in the clear. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 15:40, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

: Let's not be too picky with the criteria here. 100 non-vandal edits should suffice. Obviously, we should probably make use of the {{tl|move}} template and appropriate categories for users under the 100 edit mark, so new users can suggest moves. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:09, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

== LocalSettings.php Settings ==

<pre>
$wgGroupPermissions['trusted']['move'] = true;
</pre>

== Final? ==

If there are no other objections, comments, or concerns regarding this, I would like to get this rolling. Please comment within the next 2 days, thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:52, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
:Sounds good to me :) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 17:03, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
:We're "go" here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:10, 17 July 2006 (CDT)
:{{support}} I'm just gonna vote. I'll re-vote if this dosen't count. Mayber we can call this a two-day voting period in which people can still debate/call for delay/change their votes? Or is there intended to be a longer such period following the two days mentioned by Joe? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 00:21, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Episode Standardization

2006-07-18T05:19:17Z

Day: /* Vote? */

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank

2006-07-18T05:15:16Z

Day: /* Input on Prodecures */

Please note that I haven't begun work on [[Template:thinktank|the Think Tank proposal page template]]. I am now going to bed. Good night. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:50, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
: Sorry for the wait folks. However, things just got hectic at work and I've had to push this back. Feedback is obviously welcome. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 23:15, 4 July 2006 (CDT)

==Admin input==
I understand why Joe feels that admin input should be privileged and that all admins should be required to weigh in before enacting a change, and I don't fully disagree with him, but I must raise two concerns:
#I believe that it is dangerous to privilege admin opinions over non-admin users. In particular, I do not believe that my opinion should outweigh a dedicated long-time contributor such as The Merovingian, whose failure to achieve admin status to date is entirely apart from his competency as a contributor and the validity of his point of view.
#It may be unrealistic to await a response from ''all'' administrators - of the seven current admins, several have fairly sporadic availability. As an alternative, I might propose that we require a quorum (50% + 1) of administrators to weigh in. (On the other hand, major proposals can wait the week or so it would take to round up all admins, but this will become more of a problem as the admin staff grows). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:43, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
:::I agree with both points. As a nitpick, "more than half" is probably a better way of defining quorum. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 01:14, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
::::Exactly. I certainly dont think that its fair to ignore non administrators but that a minimum number of administrator approvals would be a good idea. There are 6 [[Special:Listusers/sysop|admins]] now and so it would be quite easy for several to reply to an issue before a change.--[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:15, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
:::Ditto. Best to let our majority shape things as best as possible, although the use of a talk page for doing this WILL SUCK. Does MediaWiki have a user vote feature? Given how people visit the wiki sporadically, I recommend a 1/4 to 1/3 quorum of users or a fixed number, plus a quorum of at least 3 admins. One-half of the user base is really unrealistic, and waiting for such changes may make the progress of approving sweeping changes slower than a glacial event. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]
::::I like the talk pages. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:58, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
::::To clarify, I was referring to the "quorum...of administrators," suggesting the adminstrator requirement should be changed from "all" to "more than half," i.e. currently four. I agree that getting half the ''users'' to do any one thing is unfeasible. I also like the talk pages for their integration and attributable history. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 01:00, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
: Good points, here. I agree that administrators opinions hold the same weight as a regular contributor. The issue here is that this Think Tank will only work if people comment. Otherwise it isn't going to do us any good. Therefore, I would like to propose that any proposal requires a minimum of 10 contributors to comment on said proposal. That way we don't have things that aren't commented upon. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:40, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
::I don't like the idea of a ten-comment quota, which may be difficult to meet for the more back-end-ish or esoteric proposals. I think I'd prefer a one-week minimum comment period, after which implementation could procede if no serious objections came up (and provided the above-discussed quorum of admins had weighed in). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:51, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
:::I have made the changes. Are there any other issues that need to be hammered out? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 23:04, 4 July 2006 (CDT)

::::I recommend we pin down a minimum time where a proposal sits on the inactive shelf. I think 3 months is enough. This allows others who got to vote too late to see it, for its fan(atic)s to stew about it and hopefully show dedication (in being a routine contributor and not a lurker) by returning later to re-open it for review, and prevents contributors from having to juggle too much. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:16, 5 July 2006 (CDT)

==Major Changes Definition==
One item I'd like to propose adding to the "major changes" list is a non-passive change to a template that is in use (not subst'd). That is to say, adding/removing/modifying a template in such a way that requires going to each page that uses the template and making a change. A past example has been additions to the Character template. I think new techniques have been learned that have allowed passive changes to be made, but anything requiring a "cleanup effort" should be discussed, since reverting it (in the case that there isn't consensus for it) would be a cleanup effort of its own (rather than a simple article revert). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:39, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
: In my mind at least, this is a major change, particularly once the template has been implemented. So I agree. What does everyone else have to say about it? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 08:56, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
::Just in terms of a location for those discussions, wouldn't it be better to talk about changes to a template on that template's talk page, rather than here? After a proposal is reached in the Template talk namespace, it could be sent here for final approval. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:13, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
:::The only problem that currently exists with the template talk model is that it can take weeks before anybody responds to a proposal there sometimes. It'd be nice if there was a least a centralized list of links to proposals so that people could know where the "action" is. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:55, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
::::That's a good point. Not everyone wants to watch Recent Changes like a hawk. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:12, 1 July 2006 (CDT)

==Voting==
Is a vote always required, or only when objections are raised? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 08:30, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
:"Should a vote be necessary to determine consensus"
:The way it reads to me, if there is a clear consensus a vote wouldn't be required. However, a minimum timeframe for even "clear consensus" scenarios would be wise (a day or two, or so?) to prevent something getting "rushed" through the process while all of its supporters are on before any potential objectors get a chance to read it. Unless we require a vote for them all (in which case we should rephrase that bit).--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:59, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
:I'll clear it up after we've discussed it a bit more.... However, if consensus is clear within a week of the idea being proposed, then a vote isn't necessary. (That's my idea anyway.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:40, 5 July 2006 (CDT)

== Done ==

As far as the initial construction you had in mind, Joe, is this thing done? I have a reletively small change that I'd like to dicuss, but it's to the Main Page, so I think it would go well here. If you're ready for it, then I'd like to go ahead and test this baby out. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:45, 7 July 2006 (CDT)
:Just want to big a give kudos to everyone who helped put this together so quickly. I'm really optimistic about this process. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:10, 7 July 2006 (CDT)
::When this is declared "complete" and ready to go live, is it going to be a project (or a policy... or a podcast)? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:46, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

::: I think it will be a pie. Or else a paratrooper. Those also start with P. *wink* I think Project is good. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:50, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

: I apologize for my lack of appearances on the Wiki, but I've been working for more than 7 days straight... Anyway, unless there are any other objections, I'd consider this thing done and ready to be test-run. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:05, 8 July 2006 (CDT)

:: I would like to propose an episode standardization project. Is that appropriate for a test? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 22:54, 8 July 2006 (CDT)

:::Absolutely. Fire away. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 23:00, 8 July 2006 (CDT)

== Template thoughts ==
The think tank template was a good idea, but it's kind of difficult to read the proposals when they're sliced up and to the right of all the questions. I'd probably rather see proposals in a more narrative/paragraph form, with the template questions just being a checklist for things that you should address somewhere within your proposal. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:23, 13 July 2006 (CDT)
: It's better that way. All the questions were meant to do is aid in writing in paragraph form.... I guess that point needs to be made clearer. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:16, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:: Yeah. Monosyllabic answers are all well and good for smallish projects, but it bothers me to have to go to the talk page to get a solid idea of what a project means. Maybe we should make the questions commented out in the template and just say, "Make sure to answer these in the description of your peoject". --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 13:48, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

== Input on Prodecures ==

Ok. This is a ''good idea'' but there are flaws in the system already, and it is really bugging me. For this example, I am using the episode standerization project creation as the example.

# It's been more than seven days for people to get their comment in.
# At the time, Steel has request a vote on the "creation of the project"
# Merv has objected tot he voting process for "26 hours" - for reasons unknown.

There have been more than seven days to hear any objections. If something keeps getting pushed back just because a user (any user) wasn't able to get in their say before the seven days, nothing will get foward. We can wait 26 hours after merv is done, and then if another user has an objection to it will just keep getting pushed back and this project of "Think Tank" will become useless.

Also, in the actual proposal, was to start a project called episode standerization, to form it's pages and work on the ideas on it's pages. The overall questions was to find out why he request we create a project called episode standerization. If the project were created, I am sure he would be posting his ideas along with every one elses idea on that page than the discussion of "Why the project should be created." the question was not "Why the project should be created and what are the ideas so as soon as they are approved here they can happen.". That's not what he asked.

with Peter now on vacation, we have no idea on his availability, and there should also be a note if an admin can not vote, he can not be consideed as the "group of admins". If he is gone for 4 weeks... well.. that could be a problem. the idea for the tank was to give projects two weeks. 1 week to create and hash out ideas and 1 week to vote. Not 2 weeks for each. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:42, 17 July 2006 (CDT)

: You are once again demonstrating your tendency to want to slave to the absolute letter of the law. I consider a week for discussion a bit fast, personally. I might only get to look at the Wiki three or four times (maybe less, but let's say average) in that time and most often late at night, when I am not very mentally alert (like right now, it's after midnight here). The idea of the Think Tank was not to give projects two weeks... It was to allow for reasonable discussion and deliberation of a project followed by concensus gathering. The time-table is secondary. I've not looked it up, but I bet if you went and looked up how long it took us to deliberate over and then gather consensus on the current spoiler policy, you would see that it was more than two weeks. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 00:15, 18 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/New User Survey

2006-07-18T05:08:45Z

Day: /* Thoughts */

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Cite Templates

2006-07-16T02:37:34Z

Day: /* BW:Cite */

Galen Tyrol

2006-07-16T01:12:27Z

Day: /* Note */ "Gemenese" is not canon in RDM continuity.

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Galen Tyrol promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]]
|birthname= Galen Tyrol
|callsign= "Chief" (nickname)
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents= An unnamed Oracle (mother) and a Priest (father).
|siblings=
|children=One unborn child with Cally
|marital status= Married to [[Cally]]
|role= Union Organizer, [[New Caprica]]; former Senior NCO, Deck Crew 5, [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''
|rank= Chief Petty Officer
|actor= [[Aaron Douglas]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

== Biography ==

=== Background ===

'''Chief Petty Officer Galen Tyrol''', serial number 312365, <ref name="serial">[http://www.mediablvd.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16040&view=findpost&p=1890295 "Questions for Aaron Douglas"] messageboard Q&A with actor Aaron Douglas. </ref> is the much-admired and highest ranking NCO remaining aboard ''[[Galactica]]''. He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including the battlestars ''[[Columbia]]'', ''[[Atlantia]]'', and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]). He has served under [[William Adama]] on ''Galactica'' for five years ([[Litmus]]), and has considerable respect for the Commander - a feeling that is reciprocated. Indeed, he admires Adama to such a degree that he has modelled his own style of leadership on that of Adama: firm, fair, and willing to go to the fullest degree in support of his crew.

However, when people under his responsibility are injured, threatened or killed, Tyrol becomes rather irrational, angry, and reckless in his actions, to the point of further endangering his people or his reputation with senior officers. Prime examples of his lack of emotional control includes the scenes before the ship venting after the nuke hit and cursing [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] in front of [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] for the vent and loss of 85 of his people ([[Miniseries]]), and saving a mortally-wounded crewmate while leaving himself and [[Cally]] highly vulnerable in "[[Scattered]]". Tyrol's tryst with [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] and a subsequent cover-up attempt in "[[Litmus]]" resulted in the jailing of Specialist [[Socinus]], who was trying to protect Tyrol.

Originally leading [[Deck Crew 5]], a team of 15 deckhands and specialists, since the Cylon Attack he has become the most senior and experienced NCO on the ''Galactica''.

=== Cylon Attack ===

At the time of the Cylon Attack, as well as leading his deck crew, Tyrol is overseeing the refurbishment and restoration of [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark II N7242C - the Viper originally flown by William Adama at the time of the [[Cylon War]] ([[Miniseries]]).

Following the attack, with the ''Galactica'' undermanned, Tyrol also performs the function of senior Damage Control officer ([[Miniseries]] / [[Water]]), a role that brings him into conflict with [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] after the ''Galactica'' is struck by a Cylon nuclear warhead.

=== Relationship with Sharon Valerii ===

For several months prior to the Cylon attack, and in its aftermath, Tyrol has been engaged in an affair with Lieutenant (JG) [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], a [[Raptor]] pilot aboard the ''Galactica''. Despite the fact the relationship breaks military protocol, senior officers on the ship turn a blind eye to it, while Tyrol's own crew treat it with fond amusement.

When the water supplies on the ''Galactica'' are sabotaged, Tyrol is placed in an awkward position: by her own admmission, Valerii knows explosives were missing from a small-arms locker - potentially making her a suspect - and he is the principal DC investigator into the cause of the explosions which wreck the water tanks. Torn between love and duty, the situation prompts him to hide evidence and allow a theory that the walls of the tanks simply collapsed from fatigue resulting from damage the ''Galactica'' received from a nuclear warhead in the Cylon attack ([[Water]] / [[Miniseries]]).

Following the sabotage attempt, Valerii is ordered to end her relationship with Tyrol ([[Bastille Day]]) as a part of a general tightening-up of security and discipline on ship, only to have Tyrol's deck crew help the two of them to continue to meet in greater secret ([[Litmus]]).

Tyrol's world is thrown further into turmoil when both he and Valerii become the prime suspects in an investigation into how a Cylon agent (a copy of [[Aaron Doral]]) managed to get aboard the ''Galactica'', kill a guard, steal explosives and them blow himself up in a ship's corridor, almost killing Adama and Tigh ([[Litmus]]). When [[Socinus|one of his own Specialists]] is thrown in the brig for dereliction of duty which may have enabled the Cylon to access a weapons locker and steal the explosives, Tyrol is shocked into re-thinking his relationship with Valerii, and ends it himself.

While they continue to encounter one another professionallly - their work means they can hardly avoid one another - Tyrol and Valerii now have an uneasy distance between each other, and Valerii's actions around a captured Cylon [[Raider]] have begun to disturb Tyrol.

=== Kobol ===

When [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] discovers the planet believed to be [[Kobol]], Tyrol arranges for Socinus' release and later berates the specialist for lying to cover for him. Thereafter, Tyrol is part of the team assembled on the ill-fated recon Kobol on the [[Raptor 1]], which then crashlands near the ruins of the [[Tomb of Athena]]. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])

While Tyrol was the more experienced leader, his non-commissioned status left Lt. [[Crashdown]] in charge of the survivors. When Crashdown blamed [[Tarn]] for leaving a needed med kit behind -- Socinus was injured during the crash and a drug called [[serisone]] was needed to help him breathe -- Tyrol stepped in, recommending that he and Cally accompany Tarn. After successfully retrieving the kit from the Raptor crash site and heading back to the party, the trio was ambushed and Tarn was the only one killed. ([[Scattered]]) Eventually, he and Cally make it back to the party, only to find out that it is too late. With no other alternative, Tyrol euthanized Socinus with an overdose of [[morpha]] from both medkits. ([[Valley of Darkness]])

Upon discovering that the Cylons are setting up an anti-aircraft missle battery, Crashdown plans a strike to take the unit (and its accompanying [[DRADIS]] dish) out of operation. While the others of his party, notably Baltar and Cally, attempt to voice their indignation of such a plan, Tyrol firmly reminds them that Crashdown is in charge. Despite Tyrol's own misgivings of how the plan is to be executed, they follow through to the point right before the attack.

When it became clear that there were five Cylons at the battery, Cally refused to act as a distraction. Tyrol attempted to diffuse the situation by trying to state that the DRADIS dish was undefended; all that needed to be done was to destroy that, and the turret could not automatically target any incoming [[SAR]] operation. Crashdown has a breakdown and irrationally threatens to kill Cally, prompting Baltar to kill Crashdown.

As the command officer, per se, Tyrol later destroyed the DRADIS dish as the Cylons pursued them towards it. Tyrol then made a stand against the Cylons, screaming and firing his pistol at them. The Cylons were all killed; a surprised Tyrol turned around and saw that a [[Raptor]], preserved by Tyrol's destruction of the dish, had destroyed the Centurions. ([[Fragged]]).

=== After Kobol ===

Tyrol was arrested and interrogated by Colonel Tigh, due to his relationship with Commander Adama's would-be assassin. Tigh accused him of being part of the plot to kill Adama, throwing him in the same cell as Valerii. In order to extract information from Valerii, Baltar injected a drug that induced a systemic shutdown of Tyrol's organs. (This was during an alleged attempt to draw blood from Tyrol for Baltar's Cylon detector.) After extracting the number of Cylons in the Fleet from Valerii's subconscious, Tyrol was spared a painful death -- and was eventually proven to be a bona-fide human.

Tyrol was present when his own deckhand, Cally, killed Valerii, as Tyrol accompanied the security escort to Valerii's testing cell ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]). This act caused Tyrol to withdraw more from interaction with his own staff, many of which were already treating him coldly from his interaction with the now-confirmed Cylon copy of Valerii.

As with many on ''Galactica'', the stress of working without relief in sight or with little hope began to take its toll on Tyrol. For him, the challenge of keeping the old Vipers running with very few spare parts and sometimes extensive damage became too much to manage. Under pressure from [[CAG]] [[Lee Adama]] to keep his Vipers flying, and mostly because he had little else to do, he scribbled out a design for a new fighter and began to assemble it from basic metals and parts ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). Initially, his flight crews were skeptical that the Chief's project was anything but a pipe dream. But word soon spread as the fuselage formed and Tyrol's dream became reality. While Colonel Tigh was visibly against the project at first, Commander Adama noticed that the project, for whatever outcome it might yield, gave the crew something to strive for, something to hope for, and tacitly allowed off-duty crew to work on the project. Many, including [[Anastasia Dualla]] from the [[CIC]], and [[Kara Thrace]], lent a hand.

Tyrol's group was stuck when trying to place a skin on the new fighter, since spare parts were reserved for the Vipers. But Helo suggested carbon composite materials as an alternative to cover the ship. This solved the covering but added a significant new ability: Stealth. The carbon composites would make the new fighter practically invisible to [[DRADIS]] detection.

After the ship's [[Logic bomb]] crisis, the new fighter, named the [[Blackbird]], was given a trial flight by Kara Thrace, with very good results. In a ceremony, President Roslin christened the fighter, and Tyrol revealed the nickname of the fighter in honor of the President: ''Laura''.

=== Helo's Return ===

After the return of [[Karl Agathon]] and another version of Sharon Valerii, who happens to be pregnant with Agathon's child, the two attempt to reconcile their feelings for the biological creation. Helo and Tyrol eventually have a fistfight with lots of namecalling over what the Sharons were, but in reality, both were upset over the fact that the two Cylon copies were real people that they loved despite the reality of what they were ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]), leading them to what amounted to an uneasy truce.

Later on, after the appearance of Admiral [[Helena Cain]] and the advanced [[Mercury-class]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', he and Agathon stop Lt. [[Alistair Thorne]] from raping Sharon and Tyrol accidentally kills Thorne in the process. Tyrol and Agathon are summarily arrested and transfered to ''Pegasus'' for court martial, against Commander Adama's objections. However, Admiral Cain's "court martial" is over before Adama even knew it began, and she sentenced both to be executed for murder and treason. This prompted Adama to launch Vipers and a Raptor loaded with a marine strike team to recover them both ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

Helo and Tyrol receive a stay of execution through the efforts of [[Laura Roslin]] while the two battlestar commanders prepare to destroy the [[Resurrection Ship]] and its Cylon attack fleet that has followed ''Galactica''. Tyrol admits to his difficulty with dealing with the existence of the second Sharon, and tells Helo that he's got to "let it go", an idea that Helo supports, both understanding each other's take on the situation.

The two prisoners are seen receiving two sets of visitors, one welcome, one not. First, Lieutenant Adama visits them to tell them how close ''Galactica'' came to a shooting war with ''Pegasus'' ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]), asking the two, "Just how many kinds of stupid ''are'' you?" A day or so later, Specialists [[Vireem]] and [[Gage]] bind and beat the two prisoners in retaliation for the death of Lieutenant Thorne. [[Executive officer]] [[Jack Fisk]] comes to break up the beating, but refuses the prisoners' thanks as he was fond of Thorne himself.

After the escaped Cylon agent [[Gina]] escapes and shoots Admiral Cain, killing her, Tyrol and Helo are released and return to ''Galactica.'' Both Tyrol and Helo visit Sharon Valerii at her specialized cell. She happily greets Helo, but completely ignores Tyrol. He gets the hint and soon leaves the room, still unable to recover from the memory of the Sharon he knew as "Boomer."

=== Depression and Suicidal Yearnings ===
Tyrol also begins to experience a recurring nightmare in which he jumps from the upper portion of the flight deck to his death. [[Cally]] finds him asleep but twitching on the ''Galactica'' deck, but when she attempts to wake him, he attacks her in a frenzied rage, beating her savagely.

Deeply distressed by what he had done, Tyrol requested counselling with a priest, and was assigned [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]. After some time with Tyrol, Cavil identifies the source of Tyrol's anxiety as arising from fear that he is a [[Cylon agent|Cylon sleeper agent]], much like [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] was. Tyrol points out that Sharon was totally convinced by her programming that she was human; Tyrol is haunted by the fear that it was impossible to truly know if you were a Cylon or not. Cavil assures him that he was not, quipping that he knew "because I'm a Cylon and I've never seen you at any of the meetings.".

[[Cavil]] tells him to get back to work, which is where his real family is, and argues that they, [[Deck Crew 5|the deck crew]], love him, "even Cally, ''especially'' Cally" ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Tyrol was subsequently responsible for exposing [[Cavil]] as a Cylon agent when he recognized him as one of the returnees from the rescue mission to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Upon realizing this, Tyrol tackled Cavil, called for security, and stated 'Code Blue.'
[[Image:Tyrol LDYBII.JPG|thumb|Tyrol as Union President ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])]]
===Union President===
A year later, Tyrol lived in [[New Caprica City]] and was the president of the Worker's Union, a vocal opponent of President Baltar's administration. By this point, he appeared to have married Cally, who was pregnant 380 days after settling on the planet. Tyrol and Cally witnessed the arrival of the Cylons on the planet, and went to [[Kara Thrace]] for guidance. She tells him to "fight them until we can't." ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

== Note ==

*[[Wikipedia:Galen|Galen]] is the name of a famed Greek doctor, who was first to argue that the mind was in the brain not the heart. This may be construed as irony, given Tyrol's part in the ongoing story.
*Tyrol's first name, Galen, was first revealed in Ron D. Moore's blog during Season 1, but it was not mentioned on screen until the Season 2 episode "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]".
*[[Wikipedia:Tyrol|Tyrol]] (or Tirol) is the name of a region divided between western Austria and northern Italy.
*Ron D. Moore stated in an [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/2212/2/| interview with Now Playing Magazine] on 16 Sept, 2005 that Chief Tyrol is a Gemenon. This is in keeping with previously established facts about him: Gemenons are very religious, and Tyrol's father was a priest and his mother was an oracle.
*Ron Moore explains in the DVD commentary for the [[Miniseries]] that Chief Tyrol was originally supposed to be a fairly small role, and in the first script of the Miniseries he only had about 15 lines. However, Aaron Douglas was so good at ad libbing new lines for scenes as production moved foward that Moore kept writing him into a bigger character. Going into season 1, Tyrol would originally have been defined by his relationship to Boomer, with suspicion that she might be a Cylon only coming out towards the end of the season. However, instead of this Boomer and Tyrol's relationship became strained and ended early in season 1, and Tyrol was expanded as a character not simply defined by Boomer.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Tyrol, Galen]]
[[Category:Characters|Tyrol, Galen]]
[[Category:RDM|Tyrol, Galen]]
[[Category:People from Gemenon|Tyrol, Galen]]

[[es:Galen Tyrol]]

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Cite Templates

2006-07-16T01:06:57Z

Day: /* BW:Cite */

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Cite Templates

2006-07-15T15:13:25Z

Day: /* BW:Cite */

User talk:Spencerian

2006-07-15T14:51:13Z

Day: /* State of the Wiki */

''For discussions prior to January 1, 2006, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASpencerian&diff=21890&oldid=21664 click here.]''

''For discussions prior to June 1, 2006, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=User_talk:Spencerian&oldid=60768 click here.]''

== New Article: Emergency Jump Coordinates ==

Hey spenc, would you mind taking a look at the new [[Emergency Jump Coordinates|Article]]? It´s my first one and I´m not very good at syntax yet. Looking forward to any kind of constructive criticism!

== hey, thanks! ==

thanks for the praise! my next idea was to write a little piece for the FTL article, about the way that jump coordinates are actually calculated. this would be based upon the miniseries and scattered.
what do you think?

:<del>Jump calculation stuff would be purely speculative since this hasn't been explained in the show in terms of technology. While the Colonials obviously have a spatial coordinate system to use for FTL, we the viewers haven't a reference that makes sense to us. Nor has the technical workings of this been explained. Keep in mind that BSG's magic works by avoiding [[technobabble]] for two reasons: (1), it's not realistic, and (2) describing technology in too much detail forces future stories to conform to that writing or write something else, causing continuity issues (Star Trek is filled with these issues). I advise not writing such an article. Oh, be sure to sign your comments. To do this, place four tilde characters (that's this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end of your comment. You can indent by placing a colon at the start of the paragraph. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:41, 1 June 2006 (CDT)</del>
:Never mind...read your additions. You kept it to a logical framework and to episode details. Nice addition. Keep working on your wiki formatting and you'll do fine. Thanks! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:50, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

== New and Improved ==

Warning System [[Battlestar Wiki:Template List#User Talk Space Warnings|Here]]. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:53, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks, Shane. I saw you working to make these warning tags yesterday. We should use them judiciously (that is, we should probably ask an admin to use them first), but it will help flag a user on what's going on without us causing misunderstandings. Thanks. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:40, 4 June 2006 (CDT)
::I updated the template. Check out the usage on the way it works. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:16, 6 June 2006 (CDT)
:::<del>Will do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:03, 7 June 2006 (CDT)</del>Done. They work as advertised. Hopefully won't have to use them often. Thanks much, Shane! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:10, 7 June 2006 (CDT)

== [[BW:SAC]] ==

Per my tlak page, thi s is the policy I am pointing out on the [[Computer]] page: [[BW:SC#Links_to_Episodes]] --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:16, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
:Thanks, Shane. You pointed out an issue I thought long resolved. I noted a proposed change to get this worked out for good on the SAC talk page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:03, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
::Thanks for ackoldeging your mistake. I am changing the page until or if the policy takes effect. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:05, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

== Reply ==

This is Homeworld616 and I'm replying to your message on my talk page. I don't know how this works, whether you go back to my user talk page or if I reply on yours, so in order to avoid making myself look like an introvert who doesn't respond to his messages, I left replies on both pages. Tell me if I'm doing something wrong.

Anyway, thanks for the compliments on the articles. Feels nice to have fellow fans who are atuned to the Colonies. About the Caprican news station, you're right. They never actually said the name. However, I base my findings on two facts: (1) When Baltar is being interviewed by Kellan Brody of In the Spotlight, if you look in the (I think) lower right-hand corner of the screen, you can see a white logo of a number 7 in the middle of a circle (that is the "booger" you were referring to?). (2) Brody makes a big deal about her show interviewing only Caprican headline-makers. Based on the logo's number and the pro-Caprican bias of the anchorwoman, the station's name must be Caprica 7. I can always change the name to Channel 7 if the community reaches the concensus that my findings for Caprica 7 aren't good enough, but I plan to leave the name just like it is. I'm going to check out those links you sent me. Contact me if you've got more stuff to talk about.

P.S. I recently posted a reformed article [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]. Check it out if this topic interests you. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 10:23, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:I think he may have [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Unnamed_Cities_of_Caprica&diff=61568&oldid=61560 seen it]. (He's the man when it comes to "Conventionizing and concising.") --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:27, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::Well that would explain a whole ton of edits I found when I looked at the article yeasterday. I appreciate those edits, as they cleared up some errors I had unintentionally put in the article. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 10:31, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:::Yep, all taken care of. "Boomer" is ''always'' the ''Galactica'' Sharon Valerii. Once she was "outed" and to avoid confusion, the convention I've pushed is to use "Caprica-Valerii" to distinguish from Boomer. Using "Boomer-Valerii" is redundant, or using "Boomer" to speak of any consciousnesses who isn't specifically the sleeper Valerii is just wrong, so... Yes, usually we just speak on one talk page, using the edit summary to "alert" others of a response. Marking the page by watching it can alert to changes faster from your watchlist. If it's really important that you see my response, I would make a short note on your page to flag your new message banner. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:36, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

== Trek BIOS Flash ==

Hey, man. I know you're a recovering Trek fan as well. I wondered if you'd seen [http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/2006/06/spaced_out_star.html this]. Read the linked treatment (in pdf form). I got very excited reading it, then sad because it will likely never get made. I think this is exactly what the Trek universe needs. Ah well. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:38, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:Chiming in; although I felt a "reboot" would be nice, it also sounded like a rehash of Kirk and Spock again. Granted, JMS is a talented writer and probably ''would'' have made it feel "fresh", but in principle it still just sounds like the same thing over and over again. I don't think JMS' idea was bad (it was better than what Berman and Braga were doing!) but not ultimatley a good choice. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:15, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:: Since you mention JMS, this idea wouldn't be related to [http://worldsofjms.com/usenet/post/060624a.htm this] or has anyone heard anything else? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:27, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
:::Problem is, the whole 'young kirk/spock' idea is old. Was bandied about in about '90/'91 before Trek VI came out. Everyone rejected it back then cause it would suck. My god i'm being blunt today! :D --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 20:04, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:::: Turns out JMS announcement is about [http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17565 this]. Sounds like he may have finally hit the big time. However, it may lead Paramount to pursue him again. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:48, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::Hm. I guess I have the same attitude about this as I did on RDM's announcement: I'll believe it when I see it. ''Star Trek's'' problem today is that there is (1) no continuity whatsoever, and (2) too many cooks. If I had fan-god powers, I'd have most of Viacom's executives and producers bundled with their lawyers and hurled ass-first into the nearest active volcano, and then I'd consider appointing as creative consultants some guys who have spent a lot of money making their own [http://www.newvoyages.com new adventures of the original ST series] (with official approval from Paramount, surprisingly). This is a must-download; it almost makes me long for Star Trek again. Almost. I'm happy for JMS, too. It would be nice to let RDM do Star Trek. One Slashdot guy said, on the announcement of "[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]": "If Ron Moore announced that he was bringing ''The Phone Book'' to the small screen, I'd watch it." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:00, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::I just read that Slashdot discussion, and it is so much worse than even average Slasdot discourse that tears came to my eyes. I liked that your comment managed to pass default threshold, though, even if I was stunned to see it wasn't modded "Informative." --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:16, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::Am I one of the only ones here who doesnt think that much of the Star Trek series, especially the orignial series?
*Step 1: Orbit unchartered planet.
*Step 2: Landing crew consisting of Captain Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Ensign Dave in a redshirt go to planet
*Step 3: Crew come across mysterious "man in a suit" creature
*Step 4: Ensign Dave gets eaten
*Step 5: Crew finds out that local village made up of only hot women is being terrorised by the creature.
*Step 6: The crew kill the creature
*Step 7: Kirk makes out with hot alien woman
*Step 8: Enterprise leaves orbit to find some other planet
::::::: Its the same plot every episode... Please dont kill me :( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:17, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::Step 7 reminded of [http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Captain_Kirk this]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 07:23, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::Ain't that place fun, Frankie?
:::::::::You hit the nail on the head, Mercifull; it WAS the same plot points. I can distill things better, though:
:::::::::#How do we kill it?
:::::::::#How do we keep it from killing us (or everyone)?
:::::::::#How do we help it?
:::::::::#How do I (Kirk, usually) love it (without causing items 1-3)?
:::::::::Take a look at the Original Series and compare it to any successors. Despite its basic plot points, however, it withstands muster because the story wasn't the technology, but the people, all flawed, but damned determined, like the Cowboys of the West. In the Original Series, at least the show was character-driven, like BSG today. The best two ST movies, "The Wrath of Khan" and "First Contact", were very character driven, used regular-series material, and were fun. The Next Generation and much of DS9 had better moments than not, but were still filled with technobabble and other nonsense that pushed the plot and badly. BSG can take something as simple as looking for things like ''water'' and ''fuel'' or, heaven help us, a ''baby'' and turn the plot into something we just won't want to miss. ST is a morass; at least in the Original Series, it worked. Today, I just don't know what to think of it. I think of the SF culture now like the airline industry. "Airlines" like BSG, B5, Farscape, and Stargate say to their flyers, "We know you have a choice in SF, and we're glad you chose us." Viacom doesn't know or care what to do. I suspect that will change, maybe even with this movie. I doubt it, however. It will take a RDM-like transformation--and if we thought our gnashing of teeth on RDM Galactica's announcement was big, imagine what fans will do if ST got "re-imagined." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:07, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

== Need a Deletion ==

I don't know who to send this to, but since you have seniority I thought I'd tell you. I've made a pretty bad error. Not an hour ago watched the [[Miniseries]] all the way through and, you remember that [[Caprica 7]] article I made? The TV station's name is actually Caprica ''5''. The "7" is actually from '''Channel 7 News''', also shown in the Miniseries. I'm going to split that Caprica 7 article into two new articles, one for Caprica 5 and the other for Channel 7 News. Sigh. I shouldn't have jumped onto that article without watching my source again. Oh well. Anyway, I need the trigger pulled on Caprica 7 (as soon as I make the other two articles, of course). If you or someone could get on that I'd appreciate it. Take your time of course. Then again, this would probably be a good time for me to learn how to delete articles. Any approach you want to take is fine with me. I'll tell you when the other articles are done. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 16:20, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
:For future reference, just tag an article with a <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> that you need deleted, and one of the mop-bearers (admins) should come along and clean it up. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:51, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
::All right. I'll remember that. Thanks. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:24, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== State of the Wiki ==
While the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|OSAD]] project is far from being 100%, I was wondering if you were going to reassess the current state of the wiki (as you did before, when you found the TOS content to be so woefully inadequate). The TOS space has come a long way now that nearly every non-terminology article has a picture, and red links are an endangered species. It has kind of made me wonder if it might be worthwhile to have a "state of the wiki" report that breaks down the wiki into areas and is periodically (but regularly) updated regarding the progress in those areas. Maybe something for the think tank after I let it ferment a bit. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:35, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:Yep, it has all come a long way in a year, and a review is overdue. I think the comparative aspect between other wikis works well so we don't compare ourselves with ourselves to the point where it seems like the Oscars and the self-backslapping you see there. At the same time, I wonder if it's "fair" for me to make that self-assessment by my lonesome now. Maybe it's a Joe thing, with us commenting or voting on key aspects of the wiki to form the final collective assessment. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:40, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::Peter Jackson talked about wanting to be hypnotized to forget he had anything to do with LOTR so that he could objectively watch and critique it. Objectivity may indeed be difficult to achieve from an "insider". The trouble is... it can be hard finding "outsiders" to be judges. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:45, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::I'm in the middle of massive fixes to the Wiki; could you please give me a few days before making any assessments guys? (Need to clear up RL work, then I'm going to sit down an make like 1,000 edits at a sitting, ''soon''). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:59, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::::No problem. We were still very much in the "talk it over" phase. Though I am curious what the 1,000 edit marathon will be in regards to. (As long as it isn't a spoiler, in which case I can wait...) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:04, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::::Waiting is fine. Perhaps we know of someone on Wikipedia who can give a fair critique? Or a noted Battlestar expert (aside from the 500 of us...). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:06, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

I wouldn't mind someone from the outside giving us their constructive criticisms and thoughts on the wiki, and maybe comparing it to a self-assessment of ourselves (just to see any similarities or differences between viewpoints). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:00, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

: Yes, I think that last ia key, Joe. While an outsider is going to be more objective, we're much more intimately aware of our goals and scope than an outsider could be. In anycase, I'd be happy with whatever y'all think is good, as far as this topic goes. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 09:51, 15 July 2006 (CDT)

User talk:Spencerian

2006-07-13T19:12:18Z

Day: /* Scifi.com */

''For discussions prior to January 1, 2006, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASpencerian&diff=21890&oldid=21664 click here.]''

''For discussions prior to June 1, 2006, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=User_talk:Spencerian&oldid=60768 click here.]''

== New Article: Emergency Jump Coordinates ==

Hey spenc, would you mind taking a look at the new [[Emergency Jump Coordinates|Article]]? It´s my first one and I´m not very good at syntax yet. Looking forward to any kind of constructive criticism!

== hey, thanks! ==

thanks for the praise! my next idea was to write a little piece for the FTL article, about the way that jump coordinates are actually calculated. this would be based upon the miniseries and scattered.
what do you think?

:<del>Jump calculation stuff would be purely speculative since this hasn't been explained in the show in terms of technology. While the Colonials obviously have a spatial coordinate system to use for FTL, we the viewers haven't a reference that makes sense to us. Nor has the technical workings of this been explained. Keep in mind that BSG's magic works by avoiding [[technobabble]] for two reasons: (1), it's not realistic, and (2) describing technology in too much detail forces future stories to conform to that writing or write something else, causing continuity issues (Star Trek is filled with these issues). I advise not writing such an article. Oh, be sure to sign your comments. To do this, place four tilde characters (that's this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end of your comment. You can indent by placing a colon at the start of the paragraph. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:41, 1 June 2006 (CDT)</del>
:Never mind...read your additions. You kept it to a logical framework and to episode details. Nice addition. Keep working on your wiki formatting and you'll do fine. Thanks! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:50, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

== New and Improved ==

Warning System [[Battlestar Wiki:Template List#User Talk Space Warnings|Here]]. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:53, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks, Shane. I saw you working to make these warning tags yesterday. We should use them judiciously (that is, we should probably ask an admin to use them first), but it will help flag a user on what's going on without us causing misunderstandings. Thanks. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:40, 4 June 2006 (CDT)
::I updated the template. Check out the usage on the way it works. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:16, 6 June 2006 (CDT)
:::<del>Will do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:03, 7 June 2006 (CDT)</del>Done. They work as advertised. Hopefully won't have to use them often. Thanks much, Shane! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:10, 7 June 2006 (CDT)

== [[BW:SAC]] ==

Per my tlak page, thi s is the policy I am pointing out on the [[Computer]] page: [[BW:SC#Links_to_Episodes]] --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:16, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
:Thanks, Shane. You pointed out an issue I thought long resolved. I noted a proposed change to get this worked out for good on the SAC talk page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:03, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
::Thanks for ackoldeging your mistake. I am changing the page until or if the policy takes effect. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:05, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

== Reply ==

This is Homeworld616 and I'm replying to your message on my talk page. I don't know how this works, whether you go back to my user talk page or if I reply on yours, so in order to avoid making myself look like an introvert who doesn't respond to his messages, I left replies on both pages. Tell me if I'm doing something wrong.

Anyway, thanks for the compliments on the articles. Feels nice to have fellow fans who are atuned to the Colonies. About the Caprican news station, you're right. They never actually said the name. However, I base my findings on two facts: (1) When Baltar is being interviewed by Kellan Brody of In the Spotlight, if you look in the (I think) lower right-hand corner of the screen, you can see a white logo of a number 7 in the middle of a circle (that is the "booger" you were referring to?). (2) Brody makes a big deal about her show interviewing only Caprican headline-makers. Based on the logo's number and the pro-Caprican bias of the anchorwoman, the station's name must be Caprica 7. I can always change the name to Channel 7 if the community reaches the concensus that my findings for Caprica 7 aren't good enough, but I plan to leave the name just like it is. I'm going to check out those links you sent me. Contact me if you've got more stuff to talk about.

P.S. I recently posted a reformed article [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]. Check it out if this topic interests you. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 10:23, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:I think he may have [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Unnamed_Cities_of_Caprica&diff=61568&oldid=61560 seen it]. (He's the man when it comes to "Conventionizing and concising.") --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:27, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::Well that would explain a whole ton of edits I found when I looked at the article yeasterday. I appreciate those edits, as they cleared up some errors I had unintentionally put in the article. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 10:31, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:::Yep, all taken care of. "Boomer" is ''always'' the ''Galactica'' Sharon Valerii. Once she was "outed" and to avoid confusion, the convention I've pushed is to use "Caprica-Valerii" to distinguish from Boomer. Using "Boomer-Valerii" is redundant, or using "Boomer" to speak of any consciousnesses who isn't specifically the sleeper Valerii is just wrong, so... Yes, usually we just speak on one talk page, using the edit summary to "alert" others of a response. Marking the page by watching it can alert to changes faster from your watchlist. If it's really important that you see my response, I would make a short note on your page to flag your new message banner. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:36, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

== Trek BIOS Flash ==

Hey, man. I know you're a recovering Trek fan as well. I wondered if you'd seen [http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/2006/06/spaced_out_star.html this]. Read the linked treatment (in pdf form). I got very excited reading it, then sad because it will likely never get made. I think this is exactly what the Trek universe needs. Ah well. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:38, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:Chiming in; although I felt a "reboot" would be nice, it also sounded like a rehash of Kirk and Spock again. Granted, JMS is a talented writer and probably ''would'' have made it feel "fresh", but in principle it still just sounds like the same thing over and over again. I don't think JMS' idea was bad (it was better than what Berman and Braga were doing!) but not ultimatley a good choice. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:15, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:: Since you mention JMS, this idea wouldn't be related to [http://worldsofjms.com/usenet/post/060624a.htm this] or has anyone heard anything else? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:27, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
:::Problem is, the whole 'young kirk/spock' idea is old. Was bandied about in about '90/'91 before Trek VI came out. Everyone rejected it back then cause it would suck. My god i'm being blunt today! :D --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 20:04, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:::: Turns out JMS announcement is about [http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17565 this]. Sounds like he may have finally hit the big time. However, it may lead Paramount to pursue him again. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:48, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::Hm. I guess I have the same attitude about this as I did on RDM's announcement: I'll believe it when I see it. ''Star Trek's'' problem today is that there is (1) no continuity whatsoever, and (2) too many cooks. If I had fan-god powers, I'd have most of Viacom's executives and producers bundled with their lawyers and hurled ass-first into the nearest active volcano, and then I'd consider appointing as creative consultants some guys who have spent a lot of money making their own [http://www.newvoyages.com new adventures of the original ST series] (with official approval from Paramount, surprisingly). This is a must-download; it almost makes me long for Star Trek again. Almost. I'm happy for JMS, too. It would be nice to let RDM do Star Trek. One Slashdot guy said, on the announcement of "[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]": "If Ron Moore announced that he was bringing ''The Phone Book'' to the small screen, I'd watch it." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:00, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::I just read that Slashdot discussion, and it is so much worse than even average Slasdot discourse that tears came to my eyes. I liked that your comment managed to pass default threshold, though, even if I was stunned to see it wasn't modded "Informative." --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:16, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::Am I one of the only ones here who doesnt think that much of the Star Trek series, especially the orignial series?
*Step 1: Orbit unchartered planet.
*Step 2: Landing crew consisting of Captain Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Ensign Dave in a redshirt go to planet
*Step 3: Crew come across mysterious "man in a suit" creature
*Step 4: Ensign Dave gets eaten
*Step 5: Crew finds out that local village made up of only hot women is being terrorised by the creature.
*Step 6: The crew kill the creature
*Step 7: Kirk makes out with hot alien woman
*Step 8: Enterprise leaves orbit to find some other planet
::::::: Its the same plot every episode... Please dont kill me :( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:17, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::Step 7 reminded of [http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Captain_Kirk this]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 07:23, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::Ain't that place fun, Frankie?
:::::::::You hit the nail on the head, Mercifull; it WAS the same plot points. I can distill things better, though:
:::::::::#How do we kill it?
:::::::::#How do we keep it from killing us (or everyone)?
:::::::::#How do we help it?
:::::::::#How do I (Kirk, usually) love it (without causing items 1-3)?
:::::::::Take a look at the Original Series and compare it to any successors. Despite its basic plot points, however, it withstands muster because the story wasn't the technology, but the people, all flawed, but damned determined, like the Cowboys of the West. In the Original Series, at least the show was character-driven, like BSG today. The best two ST movies, "The Wrath of Khan" and "First Contact", were very character driven, used regular-series material, and were fun. The Next Generation and much of DS9 had better moments than not, but were still filled with technobabble and other nonsense that pushed the plot and badly. BSG can take something as simple as looking for things like ''water'' and ''fuel'' or, heaven help us, a ''baby'' and turn the plot into something we just won't want to miss. ST is a morass; at least in the Original Series, it worked. Today, I just don't know what to think of it. I think of the SF culture now like the airline industry. "Airlines" like BSG, B5, Farscape, and Stargate say to their flyers, "We know you have a choice in SF, and we're glad you chose us." Viacom doesn't know or care what to do. I suspect that will change, maybe even with this movie. I doubt it, however. It will take a RDM-like transformation--and if we thought our gnashing of teeth on RDM Galactica's announcement was big, imagine what fans will do if ST got "re-imagined." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:07, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

== Need a Deletion ==

I don't know who to send this to, but since you have seniority I thought I'd tell you. I've made a pretty bad error. Not an hour ago watched the [[Miniseries]] all the way through and, you remember that [[Caprica 7]] article I made? The TV station's name is actually Caprica ''5''. The "7" is actually from '''Channel 7 News''', also shown in the Miniseries. I'm going to split that Caprica 7 article into two new articles, one for Caprica 5 and the other for Channel 7 News. Sigh. I shouldn't have jumped onto that article without watching my source again. Oh well. Anyway, I need the trigger pulled on Caprica 7 (as soon as I make the other two articles, of course). If you or someone could get on that I'd appreciate it. Take your time of course. Then again, this would probably be a good time for me to learn how to delete articles. Any approach you want to take is fine with me. I'll tell you when the other articles are done. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 16:20, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
:For future reference, just tag an article with a <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> that you need deleted, and one of the mop-bearers (admins) should come along and clean it up. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:51, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
::All right. I'll remember that. Thanks. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:24, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== State of the Wiki ==
While the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|OSAD]] project is far from being 100%, I was wondering if you were going to reassess the current state of the wiki (as you did before, when you found the TOS content to be so woefully inadequate). The TOS space has come a long way now that nearly every non-terminology article has a picture, and red links are an endangered species. It has kind of made me wonder if it might be worthwhile to have a "state of the wiki" report that breaks down the wiki into areas and is periodically (but regularly) updated regarding the progress in those areas. Maybe something for the think tank after I let it ferment a bit. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:35, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:Yep, it has all come a long way in a year, and a review is overdue. I think the comparative aspect between other wikis works well so we don't compare ourselves with ourselves to the point where it seems like the Oscars and the self-backslapping you see there. At the same time, I wonder if it's "fair" for me to make that self-assessment by my lonesome now. Maybe it's a Joe thing, with us commenting or voting on key aspects of the wiki to form the final collective assessment. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:40, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::Peter Jackson talked about wanting to be hypnotized to forget he had anything to do with LOTR so that he could objectively watch and critique it. Objectivity may indeed be difficult to achieve from an "insider". The trouble is... it can be hard finding "outsiders" to be judges. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:45, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::I'm in the middle of massive fixes to the Wiki; could you please give me a few days before making any assessments guys? (Need to clear up RL work, then I'm going to sit down an make like 1,000 edits at a sitting, ''soon''). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:59, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::::No problem. We were still very much in the "talk it over" phase. Though I am curious what the 1,000 edit marathon will be in regards to. (As long as it isn't a spoiler, in which case I can wait...) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:04, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

== Scifi.com ==

For the record, btw, as many of you may know from the messageboards, I think the Scifi.com is poorly run and (unlike Ron Moore) doesn't really try to "connect with the fans", as they ''claim'' (the messageboards are a laughingstock of poor moderating, the Battlestar website hasn't been updated in a full year, they only post up Ron's blog and podcasts but that's more Ron's doing than theirs...plus Mrs.Ron tells us that Ron has supplied ''several'' new podcasts to them that they simply haven't put up). Anyway, Scifi Weekly on their front page has a "review a website" thing and I mailed in a "Hey, why not review BattlestarWiki?" request. To be honest, I think they would view us as competition with their abortive, and, also pathetically laughable wiki attempt, Scifipedia (I can't even log in). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:03, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:As much as I fear and despise redundancy as a computer scientist, I really don't have a problem with the Scifipedia. One has only to type in a few basic search words (major characters, episode names, etc.) to see that it really isn't trying to compete with a specialized wiki like this one. They have one big summary article about BSG, and that's about it. I don't view it so much as a rivalry as an entity with an entirely different mission. They're trying to cover a much broader spectrum by covering "Scifi"... especially since that now apparently includes the world of professional wrestling. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:08, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::Oh no I don't view them as a rival: I'd like it if they were up and running as a succesful wiki. The reason for my contempt is that the clowns at Scifi.com don't run it well and it's loaded with technical problems. Basically I couldn't log in (they have many log in problems) and their "response" was "well, if you want we could delete your current account"...um, I'm not giving up an over 4,000 post screename for that, and it wasn't much of a "solution". Only the latest in a long string of frustrations--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:12, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::My fear is that the "clowns" are just barely plural. What if the only people running the site are Admin and the much maligned Admin1. Maybe Scifi just underestimates how much manpower it takes to maintain an online presence in this day and age. I'd prefer to imagine their problems as being caused by massing staffing/funding shortages. I guess I just don't want to believe that a properly funded and staffed web team could run a site so poorly. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:16, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::::Some people have said there's a marked difference between "Admin" and "Admin1", and alothough I realize that they are 2 separate people, I've not noticed a difference; there is?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:37, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::::I've not had interactions with either, so I can't testify one way or the other. However the ip of "Admin" seems based out of NYC, while "Admin1" appears to hail from Seattle (I realize proxies can fool this, but most people don't bother). Also, the "note from the admin" (excerpted below) says you can pm either of them. They've just never seemed... responsive or communicative, which has really damaged the situation. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:49, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::::"The Battlestar BBoard will be monitored by site administrators throughout the day. If you see a post that you feel violates the rules above, send a private message to "admin" or "admin1" and it will be reviewed. Our decisions regarding what constitutes a violation will be subjective, and will err on the side of free and open discussion, but we will not tolerate openly hostile or abusive behavior.

:::::As always, if you have any suggestions for how we can improve our message boards, we'd love to hear them. E-mail us directly at bboard@www.scifi.com."

:::::: Is that really what it says? "bboard@www.scifi.com"? That's... I mean--That doesn't look like a valid email address to ''me''. Now, granted, I'm not a piece of email-related software, so I could be wrong, but I've never see "www" in an email addy before. Weird. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:12, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

Talk:William Adama/Archive 1

2006-07-13T19:05:43Z

Day: /* Cleanup Required */

William Adama

2006-07-13T19:03:07Z

Day: /* Character History at a Glance */ I think that's how this word order should be puctuated.

:''For information on William Adama's [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Adama (TOS)]].''

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:William Adama promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= William Adama
|callsign= Husker
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents= [[Evelyn Adama]] (mother), [[Joseph Adama]] (father)
|siblings=
|children= [[Lee Adama]] (alive), [[Zak Adama]] (deceased)
|marital status= Divorced ([[Caroline Adama]]), remarried to [[Anne Adama]]
|role=Commanding Officer, [[Battlestar (RDM)|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''; Supreme Commander of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
|rank=Admiral
|cylon=
|actor=[[Edward James Olmos]]
|name=
}}

Admiral '''William Adama''' is the commanding officer of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', and the highest ranking officer left in the [[Colonial Fleet]].

=== Background ===

*William Adama was born on Caprica to [[Evelyn Adama|Evelyn]] and [[Joseph Adama]]. His mother was an accountant and his father, an attorney specializing in civil liberties ([[Litmus]]). They divorced while he was in his teens.
*Adama served late in the [[Cylon War]] as a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilot. He allegedly gained the call sign of "Husker" on account of his baritone "gravelled" voice. He proved a gifted pilot, shooting down his first [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] on his very first mission.
*He racked-up his 1,000th deck landing while serving aboard battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' ([[Act of Contrition]]), when he held the rank of Lieutenant.
*In the last week in the war, Adama served on ''[[Galactica]]'' when the battlestar was boarded by Cylon forces. He recalled to his friend and fellow war veteran [[Saul Tigh]] of a dangerous Cylon tactic that tried to turn the battlestar's power against itself ([[Scattered]], deleted scene).
*Following the Cylon armistice, William Adama married [[Caroline Adama]] and had two sons, [[Lee Adama|Lee]] and [[Zak Adama|Zak]], before the pressures of Adama's career and the time he spent away from home of active service began to place a strain on their marriage, and the two eventually divorce.

[[Image:Youngadamafamily.jpg|thumb|left|A young William Adama and his two sons.]]

*Furloughed by [[Colonial Fleet]] after the war's end, Adama found work on a civilian freighter where he met [[Saul Tigh]], who was to become a longtime friend.
*Adama married a second time to [[Anne Adama]]. Anne's family had political influence with the defense subcommittee and pulled to get Adama reinstated to the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Adama himself arranged for Tigh's reinstatement a few years later.
*While elder son Lee Adama showed promise as a Viper pilot, younger Zak Adama did not. [[Kara Thrace]], Zak's flight instructor and lover, certified him for basic flight despite young Adama's poor flight skills. Later, Zak Adama was killed in an operational flight. Zak's death would cause a rift between he and his older son for nearly [[Act of Contrition|three years]] until Thrace admits her error to Bill Adama.
*Adama has the rare combination of qualities that make up a good leader: insight, the ability to naturally command respect, a common touch that enables him to relate to the enlisted personnel under his command as well as his officers, intuition, intelligence, a strong belief in his own abilities, and the ability to take the advice of others. These qualities are reflected in the fact the personnel of all ranks aboard ''Galactica'' hold him in high regard, and know that his is approachable ([[Miniseries]]).
*Adama mistrusts politicians, and sometimes places too strongly a value of loyalty to those he regards as family and friends. From his uneasiness to [[Laura Roslin]]'s unexpected assumption of the Presidency, to the tolerance and patience of his friend, [[Saul Tigh]], and his stubborness to save Kara Thrace ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]), Adama shows a dogged determination that few others care to confront.

=== Character History at a Glance ===
*At the time of the [[Miniseries]], William Adama serves out his final weeks as commander of the battlestar ''[[Galactica]]''. After some 50 years of service, the historic warship is in the process of being decommissioned, and it was one of Adama's final duties to formally hand her over to the [[Colonial Ministry of Education]], which would operate the ship as a living museum and educational center commemorating the original Cylon War.
*As a retirement gift, several members of [[Galen Tyrol]]'s deck crew find and restore Adama's old [[Viper Mark II]].
*On news of a renewed Cylon attack, Adama's first thoughts are, "Dead. We're all dead" ([[Home, Part II]]). Despite this, as well as the presumed loss of his wife in Caprica City, he manages to shepherd [[The Fleet (RDM)|the last of humanity]] to safety.
[[image:Mini_Adama_Tigh_DRADIS.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] plot a course to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] in the [[Miniseries]].]]
*When [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] Fleet Headquarters is destroyed and then Admiral [[Nagala]] is killed, he unhesitatingly takes control of the Colonial's response to the Cylon incursion and starts defining a response to the onslaught. Once President Roslin convinces Adama the futility of fighting against overwhelming odds, and with what may be the last 50,000 humans that remain anywhere, he makes the switch to the more tactical thinking that keeps the Colonial fleet at least one step ahead of their Cylon pursuers.
*From the outset, he is savvy enough to give every single survivor of the devastating attack on the Colonies a reason for hope for the future: the legend of Earth. This falsehood [[Tomb of Athena|comes back to haunt him]] as the weeks continue, as Roslin is aware of this lie to the crew and states this privately to Adama.
*Adama continues to face the problem of infiltration within the Fleet by [[Cylon agent]]s as well as [[Demand Peace|dissenting humans who protest or terrorize]] others in the Fleet. Adama continually redefines the boundaries of military and civil leadership. After some [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|serious missteps between he and President Roslin]], the two later become friends as well as influential leaders.
*[[Sharon Valerii]], a trusted [[Raptor]] pilot that served with Adama for two years, reveals herself unwittingly as a Cylon sleeper agent and shoots Adama at point blank range after a [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|critical mission near Kobol]]. Cottle [[Fragged|eventually repairs]] the damage to Adama's body, but Adama's psyche takes the larger hit while he repairs the [[Resistance|damage to the Fleet]] he and Col. Tigh have caused in arresting President Roslin, as well as the existence of a second copy of Valerii.
[[image:Home_pt1-Adama.jpg|thumb|Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] paints a model boat while talking to [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] in "[[Home, Part I]]."]]
*While at first Adama takes a similar stance to Tigh in assuming a hard military posture, a conversation with [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] helps him realize that, despite the problems, the Fleet is his family, and the family must stay together. After finding the [[Tomb of Athena]] with Roslin and reuniting a [[Laura Roslin faction|factioning of the Fleet]], Adama firmly buries the hatchet between he and Roslin publicly.
*In a desperate plan, Adama trusts the second Valerii to help ward off a massive Cylon fleet. Adama ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). Despite his "gut" feelings about the Cylon, he finds common ground often with her, even [[Resurrection Ship, Part I|apologizing to her]] after a distasteful incident.
*Adama stoically accepts Admiral [[Helena Cain]]'s overall command. Wary of her behavior and her crew, Adama follows his own truism: stick to what you know, until you find something better.
*Matters with Cain's unusually totalitarian command style come to a head when Cain makes several highly questionable orders that lead him to face off with her battlestar and her command in a [[Pegasus (episode)|military challenge]]. While the issue is temporarily defused, Adama is told by, of all people, President Roslin that Cain is a threat to the safety of the Fleet's citizens and must be eliminated.
*Adama avoids killing Cain after realizing that he would become the monster that the Cylons believed they were, unaware that she has plotted his demise as well.
*With Cain's fate sealed not by Adama but [[Gina]], a frail President Roslin promotes Adama to Admiral. He gives her a simple, affectionate kiss, which she returns, signifying another change in their turbulent association.
*Adama's sense of justice with Roslin holds when he confronts her about a conspiracy involving her re-election. Roslin admits the conspiracy but she is certain disaster will strike if [[Gaius Baltar]] becomes president. He convinces Roslin that the correct course of action is to acknowledge a miscount and cover the conspiracy.
*When ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' and two other ships blow up as a result of [[Gina]]'s last effort of sabotage, Adama is privately infuriated at new President Baltar's refusal to investigate, and begins to wonder if he hadn't made a mistake.

===Currently...===

*A year later, Adama commands a heavily under-staffed ''Galactica'' as the flagship of a Defense Fleet, consisting of all ships unable or unwilling to make planetfall on [[New Caprica]].
*Adama convinces [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] to rejoin Ellen in [[New Caprica City]] after months of debate, with [[Helo]] acting as his new XO.
*Not long after Tigh leaves, a massive Cylon Fleet bears down on New Caprica. After a brief discussion with Lee Adama ([[The Captain's Hand|now commander]] of ''Pegasus'') they order the Fleet to escape to pre-arranged Jump coordinates.
*The admiral issues the Jump order with a reminder: "We're leaving... but we'll be back."

==Additional Notes==
*[[Wikipedia:Adama|Adama]] (also known as Nazareth) is the name of a large city in Ethiopia. The name is also a variation on "[[Wikipedia:Adam and Eve|Adam]]," the first man to be created according to the Bible in the [[Wikipedia:Genesis|Book of Genesis]].

* In Hebrew the word pronounced "Adama" means earth.

* SkyOne has posted a [[Sources:Sky One Profile of William Adama|biography]] of William Adama reporting events that occurred prior to the miniseries, however this information has not appeared on the Scifi.com website and contains information that may contradict the [[canon]].

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=Unknown, eventually [[Nash]]|title=''Commanding Officer of the Battlestar ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Adama, William]]
[[Category:Characters|Adama, William]]
[[Category:RDM|Adama, William]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Adama, William]]

[[es:William Adama]]

William Adama

2006-07-13T18:56:16Z

Day: /* Background */ grammar-o.

:''For information on William Adama's [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Adama (TOS)]].''

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:William Adama promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= William Adama
|callsign= Husker
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents= [[Evelyn Adama]] (mother), [[Joseph Adama]] (father)
|siblings=
|children= [[Lee Adama]] (alive), [[Zak Adama]] (deceased)
|marital status= Divorced ([[Caroline Adama]]), remarried to [[Anne Adama]]
|role=Commanding Officer, [[Battlestar (RDM)|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''; Supreme Commander of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
|rank=Admiral
|cylon=
|actor=[[Edward James Olmos]]
|name=
}}

Admiral '''William Adama''' is the commanding officer of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', and the highest ranking officer left in the [[Colonial Fleet]].

=== Background ===

*William Adama was born on Caprica to [[Evelyn Adama|Evelyn]] and [[Joseph Adama]]. His mother was an accountant and his father, an attorney specializing in civil liberties ([[Litmus]]). They divorced while he was in his teens.
*Adama served late in the [[Cylon War]] as a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilot. He allegedly gained the call sign of "Husker" on account of his baritone "gravelled" voice. He proved a gifted pilot, shooting down his first [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] on his very first mission.
*He racked-up his 1,000th deck landing while serving aboard battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' ([[Act of Contrition]]), when he held the rank of Lieutenant.
*In the last week in the war, Adama served on ''[[Galactica]]'' when the battlestar was boarded by Cylon forces. He recalled to his friend and fellow war veteran [[Saul Tigh]] of a dangerous Cylon tactic that tried to turn the battlestar's power against itself ([[Scattered]], deleted scene).
*Following the Cylon armistice, William Adama married [[Caroline Adama]] and had two sons, [[Lee Adama|Lee]] and [[Zak Adama|Zak]], before the pressures of Adama's career and the time he spent away from home of active service began to place a strain on their marriage, and the two eventually divorce.

[[Image:Youngadamafamily.jpg|thumb|left|A young William Adama and his two sons.]]

*Furloughed by [[Colonial Fleet]] after the war's end, Adama found work on a civilian freighter where he met [[Saul Tigh]], who was to become a longtime friend.
*Adama married a second time to [[Anne Adama]]. Anne's family had political influence with the defense subcommittee and pulled to get Adama reinstated to the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Adama himself arranged for Tigh's reinstatement a few years later.
*While elder son Lee Adama showed promise as a Viper pilot, younger Zak Adama did not. [[Kara Thrace]], Zak's flight instructor and lover, certified him for basic flight despite young Adama's poor flight skills. Later, Zak Adama was killed in an operational flight. Zak's death would cause a rift between he and his older son for nearly [[Act of Contrition|three years]] until Thrace admits her error to Bill Adama.
*Adama has the rare combination of qualities that make up a good leader: insight, the ability to naturally command respect, a common touch that enables him to relate to the enlisted personnel under his command as well as his officers, intuition, intelligence, a strong belief in his own abilities, and the ability to take the advice of others. These qualities are reflected in the fact the personnel of all ranks aboard ''Galactica'' hold him in high regard, and know that his is approachable ([[Miniseries]]).
*Adama mistrusts politicians, and sometimes places too strongly a value of loyalty to those he regards as family and friends. From his uneasiness to [[Laura Roslin]]'s unexpected assumption of the Presidency, to the tolerance and patience of his friend, [[Saul Tigh]], and his stubborness to save Kara Thrace ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]), Adama shows a dogged determination that few others care to confront.

=== Character History at a Glance ===
*At the time of the [[Miniseries]], William Adama serves out his final weeks as commander of the battlestar ''[[Galactica]]''. After some 50 years of service, the historic warship is in the process of being decommissioned, and it was one of Adama's final duties to formally hand her over to the [[Colonial Ministry of Education]], which would operate the ship as a living museum and educational center commemorating the original Cylon War.
*As a retirement gift, several members of [[Galen Tyrol]]'s deck crew find and restore Adama's old [[Viper Mark II]].
*On news of a renewed Cylon attack, Adama's first thoughts are, "Dead. We're all dead" ([[Home, Part II]]). Despite this, as well as the presumed loss of his wife in Caprica City, he manages to shepherd [[The Fleet (RDM)|the last of humanity]] to safety.
[[image:Mini_Adama_Tigh_DRADIS.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] plot a course to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] in the [[Miniseries]].]]
*When [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] Fleet Headquarters is destroyed and then Admiral [[Nagala]] is killed, he unhesitatingly takes control of the Colonial's response to the Cylon incursion and starts defining a response to the onslaught. Once President Roslin convinces Adama the futility of fighting against overwhelming odds, and with what may be the last 50,000 humans that remain anywhere, he makes the switch to the more tactical thinking that keeps the Colonial fleet at least one step ahead of their Cylon pursuers.
*From the outset, he is savvy enough to give every single survivor of the devastating attack on the Colonies a reason for hope for the future: the legend of Earth. This falsehood [[Tomb of Athena|comes back to haunt him]] as the weeks continue, as Roslin is aware of this lie to the crew and states this privately to Adama.
*Adama continues to face the problem of infiltration within the Fleet by [[Cylon agent]]s as well as [[Demand Peace|dissenting humans who protest or terrorize]] others in the Fleet. Adama continually redefines the boundaries of military and civil leadership. After some [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|serious missteps between he and President Roslin]], the two later become friends as well as influential leaders.
*[[Sharon Valerii]], a trusted [[Raptor]] pilot that served with Adama for two years, reveals herself unwittingly as a Cylon sleeper agent and shoots Adama at point blank range after a [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|critical mission near Kobol]]. Cottle [[Fragged|eventually repairs]] the damage to Adama's body, but Adama's psyche takes the larger hit while he repairs the [[Resistance|damage to the Fleet]] he and Col. Tigh have caused in arresting President Roslin, as well as the existence of a second copy of Valerii.
[[image:Home_pt1-Adama.jpg|thumb|Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] paints a model boat while talking to [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] in "[[Home, Part I]]."]]
*While at first Adama takes a similar stance to Tigh in assuming a hard military posture, a conversation with [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] helps him realize that, despite the problems, the Fleet is his family, and the family must stay together. After finding the [[Tomb of Athena]] with Roslin and reuniting a [[Laura Roslin faction|factioning of the Fleet]], Adama firmly buries the hatchet between he and Roslin publicly.
*In a desperate plan, Adama trusts the second Valerii to help ward off a massive Cylon fleet. Adama ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). Despite his "gut" feelings about the Cylon, he finds common ground often with her, even [[Resurrection Ship, Part I|apologizing to her]] after a distasteful incident.
*Adama stoically accepts Admiral [[Helena Cain]]'s overall command. Wary of her behavior and her crew, Adama follows his own truism: stick to what you know, until you find something better.
*Matters with Cain's unusually totalitarian command style come to a head when Cain makes several highly questionable orders that lead him to face off with her battlestar and her command in a [[Pegasus (episode)|military challenge]]. While the issue is temporarily defused, Adama is told by--of all people, President Roslin--that Cain is a threat to the safety of the Fleet's citizens and must be eliminated.
*Adama avoids killing Cain after realizing that he would become the monster that the Cylons believed they were, unaware that she has plotted his demise as well.
*With Cain's fate sealed not by Adama but [[Gina]], a frail President Roslin promotes Adama to Admiral. He gives her a simple, affectionate kiss, which she returns, signifying another change in their turbulent association.
*Adama's sense of justice with Roslin holds when he confronts her about a conspiracy involving her re-election. Roslin admits the conspiracy but she is certain disaster will strike if [[Gaius Baltar]] becomes president. He convinces Roslin that the correct course of action is to acknowledge a miscount and cover the conspiracy.
*When ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' and two other ships blow up as a result of [[Gina]]'s last effort of sabotage, Adama is privately infuriated at new President Baltar's refusal to investigate, and begins to wonder if he hadn't made a mistake.

===Currently...===

*A year later, Adama commands a heavily under-staffed ''Galactica'' as the flagship of a Defense Fleet, consisting of all ships unable or unwilling to make planetfall on [[New Caprica]].
*Adama convinces [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] to rejoin Ellen in [[New Caprica City]] after months of debate, with [[Helo]] acting as his new XO.
*Not long after Tigh leaves, a massive Cylon Fleet bears down on New Caprica. After a brief discussion with Lee Adama ([[The Captain's Hand|now commander]] of ''Pegasus'') they order the Fleet to escape to pre-arranged Jump coordinates.
*The admiral issues the Jump order with a reminder: "We're leaving... but we'll be back."

==Additional Notes==
*[[Wikipedia:Adama|Adama]] (also known as Nazareth) is the name of a large city in Ethiopia. The name is also a variation on "[[Wikipedia:Adam and Eve|Adam]]," the first man to be created according to the Bible in the [[Wikipedia:Genesis|Book of Genesis]].

* In Hebrew the word pronounced "Adama" means earth.

* SkyOne has posted a [[Sources:Sky One Profile of William Adama|biography]] of William Adama reporting events that occurred prior to the miniseries, however this information has not appeared on the Scifi.com website and contains information that may contradict the [[canon]].

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=Unknown, eventually [[Nash]]|title=''Commanding Officer of the Battlestar ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Adama, William]]
[[Category:Characters|Adama, William]]
[[Category:RDM|Adama, William]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Adama, William]]

[[es:William Adama]]

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank

2006-07-13T18:48:55Z

Day: /* Template thoughts */

User talk:Day

2006-07-13T18:43:45Z

Day: /* Sindar translation */ Correct myself.

''Conversations in the period of 29 Aug 2005 to 15 Feb 2006 have been [[User talk:Day/archive01|archived]].''

== Deletion Log Entry ==
Hooray! A search of the deletion log for user Day returns:
* 16:18, 16 February 2006 Day deleted "Image:Litmus2.jpg" (Redundant image.)
It has begun! Still no entries in the block log yet, but Spence and I don't either. Probably because of our intimidation factor. (Or maybe because I was sleeping on the job while Peter or Joe was actually looking after the place.) Congrats on the first delete! (And many more...) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:35, 16 February 2006 (EST)

: Block log? Man... Does this admin bit come with a fraking manual? "Of course not. That would be too logical." *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:56, 17 February 2006 (EST)

== Congrats ==

Just wanted to say Congratulations on your engagement. Best wishes! -- [[User:Laineylain|Laineylain]] 11:47, 14 March 2006 (CST)

: Thanks much. We're, perhaps obviously, pretty excited about it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:05, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::Just saw the announcement of your engagement and I too wanted to congratulate you. --Zareck Rocks 14:23, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:::Same here, congratulations. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:47, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== You desillifier :P ==

Party pooper. I thought that caption brought much levity to the article. :P

Bleh, I knew it wouldn't last. :)--[[User:Kross|Kross]] 14:29, 14 March 2006 (CST)

: We like to keep levity pretty [[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game|segregated]] from the rest of the wiki. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:05, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== All your fault ==

Dang you, Day.. all day I've been pondering a new game.. Battlestar Marathon.
All your fault... All of it. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]]

: Heh. A Marine-based Mod? Or maybe the Resistance? Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::Reskin the Pfhor/S'pht to be centurions (oldschool and newschool, respectively), assimilated Bobs become Agents, maps of Galactica & assorted other vessiles/locales... All your fault, Day... all your fault... *goes to play in pfhorge* --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 21:29, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== Check GMail; I can't get it! ==
Now it works.. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:17, 19 March 2006 (CST)

== Mistake on my part ==

I was moving a template and must have had the old version. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:47, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

: No worries. You use an outside editor, then? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 02:49, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

== Non-weapon guns ==
You know... like tasers, and bean bag rounds. Oh. Those are non-lethal (or less-lethal) weapons. Hmmm. Squirt guns, or cap guns/starter guns would be example of non-weapon guns. Though, I doubt Raiders are equipped with cap guns (as the odds of them getting caught up in a pickup game of cops and robbers or cowboys and indians out in space is probably pretty poor). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:34, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

: Maybe Raiders all use [[Wikipedia:Airsoft|Airsoft]]. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:32, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

== Sindar translation ==
I recalled that you have some experience with the Sindar language. I was trying to come up with a translation, but was falling short. I'm looking to have a name (for a rifle) that means "Prairie dog killer". Dog is easy (hû), killer might easily be circumlocuted to death (gûr n., gurth n., guruth n., guruthos n., gwanath n., gwanu n.), but prarie has me stumped. I tried plains, meadow (from the latin roots) and finally found grassland (grassland nan n., parth n). But... how does it all string together (correctly)? nanhûgurth? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:12, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

:For plains you should use "''Talath''", noun, Sindarin for "plain". -lad (as in "Dagorlad") is a suffix and difficult to manipulate as such, but more importantly it means "plain/valley" while ''talath'' means plains proper. I'd have used the ending -crist (something like "Praire Dog Cleaver") but that's not appropriate for a rifle).----->"''Gurth an yrch''" means "Death to the Orcs" (from one of the History of Middle-earth supplement books), ''talath'' isn't a suffix, it's a stand alone word, while ''hû'' is a word root but not a full word; it would need a suffix linked to it (but "Hulad" would be kind of inaccurate, see above). Actually, "Huan" literally means simply "hound" (the an is just added to make it a complete word). ----->So a name for such a rifle, (not so much a name as a slogan, but hey guns can be named "Death from Above" or "Vae Victus", not just "Charlene"), would be "'''''Gurth An Talath Huan'''''" = "Death to the Plains (Praire) Hounds". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:07, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
::That's great! Thanks, Merv! Talath fits "prairie" better than grassland. And you're right about the flexible naming. And I suppose it's pretty academic anyway as the intended targets can't read Tengwar and won't be close enough to read it if they could. However, good weapons do have names. "Cleaver" might actually work for a larger caliber rifle (but that might be a bit too gory of imagery for some). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:21, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

::: You also might consider a simple genetive relationship (i.e. your weapon is the "death of prariedogs"). In that case, you could let word order determine it, and shorten the name a bit. Assuming you guys did good vocab research (which is just to say I've not doulbe-checked you), you might do "Gurth Talath Huan". Or, following the example of some Elven names, you could make the phrase a name by hyphenation: Gurth-Talath-Huan. I'd be wary of just slamming the words together, though (this works sometimes, but only sometimes) as Gurthtalathhuan is... unwieldy. I wonder, though, if "Talath Huan" shouldn't have some kind of mutation to make it properly a compound word. I'll have to think on this. Similarly "huan" is singluar. I assume you want plural, which would be... maybe, "hyain"? That looks wrong to me. Bears further research. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:58, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Okay. Done some research. I disagree with Merv that ''hû'' is not a word proper. I think it's simply a mono-syllable. Thus, the plural would be ''hŷ'' ("y" in this case not being the consonant we know in English, but the high, front, rounded vowel from Old English represented in the IPA by the same letter). I concur with ''talath'' being the best bet for "prarie" and ''gurth'' for "death".

::: Also, turns out we should be looking at lentiion for our compound word. So if "prarie" + "dog" = "prariedog" then ''talath'' + ''hû'' = ''talath-chú'' (notice that "ch" in this case is not as in "church" but as in "Bach" with actual German pronunciation). If you wanted to get rid of the hyphen (as I have an inclination to do), I think your best bet would be to render it as ''talachú''. That's a little more speculation than I'd be comfortable with if this were some kind of academic paper (which I've written on the subject), but for your purposes I think it is fine. The plural, then, of ''talachú'' would be ''telechý'' which is just ''full'' of sounds I love (IPA [x] and [y]).

::: The circumflex over ''hû'' simply denotes vowel lenth (as in amount of time spent saying it) and in monosyllables, what would otherwise be a long vowel (twice normal duration) becomes even stronger (three times normal duration). The accent in ''talachú'' is the denotion of that doulbe-duration, as opposed to the tripple-duration mentioned above.

::: In conclusion, I think you want ''Gurth-Telechý'' for "Death of Prariedogs" or, if you prefer the prepositional way Merv suggested, it could be ''Gurth a Thelechý'' for "Death to Prariedogs!" Now, one last note... If you wanted it to be "''The'' Death of Prariedogs" (i.e. to translate the article as well), you'd want ''I 'Urth Telechý'' as the article, there, causes lenition, as well. Lemme know if you want links to some of the resources I trust/rely on. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 15:33, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
::::Something like:
::::http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/steel_viper/deathofprariedogs.png?
::::Shorter is likely better, and I'd prefer the "title" to the "motto". I still have no idea how I'd get tengwar onto the stock, but it isn't a pressing issue as inventory issues have pushed back the arrival of the weapon anyway. Thanks for your help, guys. I was watching the appendix discs of LOTR last night, and when they had the "Tolkien Linguist" on, I thought of you guys. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:11, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::::[[image:gurth-telechy.png|right]] David Salo? I think that's the name, anyway. I exchanged a few emails with him once. He seemed to be a really nice guy. And, how the Tengwar look depends on the mode. I think you're wanting to use the [http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/tengwar/sindar.htm Sindarin "classical" mode], based on how you rendered your vowels. In which case, you want: "anga, rómen (w/ open-left curl), thúle" then "tinco, lambe (w/ acute accent), harma? (w/ acute accent), long stem with two dots above" (see right). --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 08:03, 13 July 2006 (CDT)
::::::I am (and remain) out of my depth in this language. Learning a new character set has always scared me. I generated my tengwar example using [http://tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/start.php this site], which, knowing the past record of computer translation I guess I wasn't surprised that corrections would be needed. (Of course, by checking here first, I realized that I would likely be corrected if necessary.) I've saved your example for future potential use. Hopefully I can find some method whereby I can print it on an inkjet and transfer it. At the very least I'd want to trace it. I have little confidence in my ability to hand-draw english, let alone another character set. Thanks again! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::::: Now that's a cool site. And... I have no idea how you got that it gave you. I typed "gurth-telechý" into its first box, selected "sindarin classic" below and "png" then hit go. The only difference is, it knew better than me how to render ''ch'', which should apparently have the little hat on the loop, not be open. I've uploaded a corrected version above. You have to look really closely to see that the final diacritical mark is two dots, not a short line. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 13:43, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Pegasus (TRS)/Archive 1

2006-07-13T13:06:18Z

Day: /* Reverse Gravity? */

== Battlestar Pegasus ==
Holy frak!!! Look at the SIZE of that thing! I love the look of this advanced battlestar, and hope we get a few more good looks at her and how good a fighter it is--but not against Adama, please. Pictures, pictures, pictures needed, particularly interior shots as well. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:46, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

: I think we should reference that it bears a similar shape of the original Galactica. [[User:QX100|QX100]] 16:32, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

::Don't all Battlestars? Or do you mean more similar than the new ''Galactica'' herself? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:40, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:::What I Meant was that the pegasus and all ships in the Mercury-class have the same bulky resemblence of the Battlestars from the original series. [[User:QX100|QX100]] 22:48, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Well, if you look at the end portion in that one pic, you can see the 2 hull-mounted engines which is the original structure of the battlestar in the original series and it seems like the 4 other sublight engines are "attached" to it. [[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]
== Fleet unit ==

I couldn't make it out - I believe the Pegasus was assigned to the [[62nd Battlestar Group]], but I can't be sure. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:34, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

== Pegasus Battle Group ==

It belonged to BSG 62

[[Image:Cain_Pegasus_emblem_BSG_63.jpg]]

:That's what I pointed out on the 87th BSG page before it got deleted. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:56, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::That's what it looks like to me as well. I think that we should move the BSG 75 page to just "BSG" and note it there, though, not on its own page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:56, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

Its BSG 62...not BSG63.--[[User:Strato|Strato]]

== the CNP ==

Did pegasus have it and when do you think they got rid of it?
--[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 13:02, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

Ron Moore's podcast mentions that in a cut scene, Cain explains that their computer systems were offline for the refit. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:50, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

: Actually, that scene was in the aired show when Adama, Roslin, and Cain sat down over drinks. Cain indicated they the ship jumped since, without the other computers, they were defenseless--the only thing online, apparently, were the navigation and/or FTL computers. Does this mean that Pegasus never had the CNP? They probably did. I bet they learned quickly and retrofit their ships immediately as they likely got the same information about the fleet's failure rates over wireless as did Galactica. It would have been impossible for Pegasus to fight Cylons otherwise. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:22, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::The CNP was quite new at the time of the mini-series. Maybe it was scheduled to be installed during the refit. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:44, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::: Thats all i needed to know. so ''Mercury''-class dont have it for those that hadnt been refitted yet. that means there could be other battlestars out there..
::::This is only speculation on my part. Spencerian's explanation is also plausible. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:37, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

==Gina's Origin==

Gina's origin was never stated in the episode. I know that this was widely speculated on spoiler sites prior to the episode, but that doesn't count for much. Maybe we'll learn more about her later. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:59, 1 October 2005 (EDT)

:In the Gina section of wiki states and I quote, "'''Gina is a Humano-Cylon who was "rescued" by the Pegasus, claiming to be a survivng civilian dock worker'''. After befriending the crew, she betrayed them to the Cylons, whom summarily boarded the Pegasus and terminated 800 of her crew. " That was why I put that in. --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

::Believe it or not, we're not actually a very reliable source. I'll fix that up. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:45, 1 October 2005 (EDT)

==Pegasus Fleet==

Should we post information on Pegasus's fleet in the Pegasus article? I know we don't know very much so far, except that there were 15 ships and one of them was the Scylla, but it stands to reason that we'll probably learn about some of the other ships as the new season progresses and if we get to meet other civilian crew members of Pegasus.--Ltcrashdown 01:51, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:Best place, as I see it. Probably less confusing here than [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:59, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::I definately agree on that front. The 15 ships certainly won't be showing up to join the fleet so there's no reason to include them there. I'll add the info we already know about the ships (aside from the mutiny stuff which we can add later).--Ltcrashdown 02:12, 7 January 2006 (EST)

In the process of adding info on the Pegasus fleet, Ricimer added his own details. Rather than rudely delete his comments, I'm just going to post what I wrote here, sot hat it doesn't go to waste. I'll probably incorporate some of what I wrote into the current article later, but for now I'd like to leave it here. Hope that's not a problem.--Ltcrashdown 02:24, 7 January 2006 (EST)

Shortly after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], Pegasus picked up 15 civilian ships which Admiral Cain sought to exploit for military use. Some of the passengers were drafted into ther Pegasus's crew, while just about any useful equipment and parts were stripped from the craft.

The ships included:
:The [[Scylla]] - civilian transport
:14 other ships of unknown design

An interesting note about the ships of Pegasus's short-lived fleet was that several of them had weapons which were later removed on Admiral Cain's orders.

Also, the FTL drives on the ships were removed, but for unknown use (it can be assumed that the FTL drives would probably be too small for Pegasus and too big for Vipers/Raptors, so maybe they were used for parts in the event that the FTL of the Pegasus or a Raptor might break down, Note that this is pure speculation).

== Pegasus Images ==
There's a ton of close up Pegasus shots in the file list that aren't being used. Flyby's, zoomins on various components, etc. Should we use some of them here (or elsewhere)? I'm on something of a campaign to clean up (delete) pics that aren't being used (due to [http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewtopic&gid=77846&tid=75618 this discussion]), and this was the biggest pattern I could find. If they're worth keeping around, I won't object, but it seems like if they were worth using they would have been linked to (especially since some of them have been around since September).--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:29, 16 January 2006 (EST)

:It might be sensible to list them by subject and see if any of them can be used in picture-wanting articles before we trash them all. Worth the effort? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:24, 16 January 2006 (EST)

::Sure. I'll work on an [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images|"Island of Misfit Images"]] to see if we can't find a home for them. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:28, 17 January 2006 (EST)

==Vipers==
What about vipers? What model do they have? --[[User:PhoenixHacker|PhoenixHacker]] 20:47, 16 January 2006 (EST)
: Mark IVs. As did a majority of the Colonial Fleet. (The only reason Galactica has any Mark IIs is because they were museum displays.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:55, 16 January 2006 (EST)

::That's Mark VII. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:57, 16 January 2006 (EST)

== Pegasus Registry Number ==

I am nearly positive that Pegasus' registry number is BS-62, however, I will present my evidence before (and if) I make an edit to the article.

A. Pictures:
[[Image:Pegasus_1.JPG|thumb|left]]
[[Image:TheEnemysGateIsDown3.jpg|thumb|left]]

B. Reasoning: We know that Galactica's registry number is BS-75. Galactica was also a member of BSG-75. I think that its safe to say that Battlestar Groups are numbered after the registry of their Battlestar, or else this is a pretty big coincidence. Pegasus' was a member of BSG-62, and the registry in those pictures looks like BS-62.

Thats why I made the orignal edit to the article. If we still think this isn't enough evidence, I won't edit it again. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 17:58, 25 January 2006 (EST)

:But your reasoning is utterly irrelevant. Ron D. Moore has stated, in his blog, that it is not a registry number but the number of their Battlestar Group. The number written on their hulls and ship emblem on their seals and patches seen since the miniseries say "BSG 75". They just like to display their Group number instead of registry; not exactly like Earth military now, etc. I'm sorry, but none of us will probably say this is good evidence; you haven't been here for a while BMS, but this has all be gone over a lot already. '''More importantly''', Ron D. Moore said that MORE THAN ONE Battlestar is usually in a Battlestar Group. It's like a navy carrier battlegroup. it ''can't'' be "Groups are number after the registry of their battlestar", because that would be ONE Battlestar, singular. There are multiple Battlestars in each Group.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:17, 25 January 2006 (EST)
[[Image:BS-62.jpg|right|thumb|Pegasus BS 62]]
::Ricimer, I am completley aware that there is a difference between BS and BSG. And I am fully aware that BSGs can have multiple Battlestars, I read that blog too and have seen that article within the wiki. But, the Galactica BSG is clearly named after Galactica's registry - BS-75. You can see BS-75 emblazoned on the flight pods below "Galactica" in high-res captures. If you want to extend the battle group analogy that RDM brought up, its notable that modern carrier battle groups (battle group is actually an obsolete term, they are now called "carrier strike groups" - thought CVBG is still used as an acronym) are named after their flagship. For instance, the battle group with the USS Abraham Lincoln as the flag is called the Abraham Lincoln Strike Group. Pegasus was the lead of her BSG. The flag officer commanding BSG-62, Cain, made her flag on Pegasus. Therefore, just like BSG-75 is named after Galactica BS-75, BSG-62 is named after Pegasus BS-62. But if you still don't believe me, I've uploaded a clear screencap of the flightpod, showing the text "Pegasus BS 62" from Resurrection Ship, pt. 2. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 23:15, 25 January 2006 (EST)
:::Obviously the facts speak for themselves, but I'm going to chime in in BMS' defense here. The evidence is unequivocal. Thank you for researching the issue so thoroughly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:38, 26 January 2006 (EST)
::::Thanks Peter. During my research, I found it interesting that modern carrier strike groups are almost never refered to as "CVBG 71" or something similar, like they are in the Galactica universe. I bet that it's because RDM thought "Galactica Strike Group" sounded unweildy, but BSG 75 sounded cool. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 13:00, 26 January 2006 (EST)

:::: Bada-bing, bada-boom. Case closed. No need for drama folks. Either it was shown or it wasn't. Before, it looked like it wasn't shown, but this cap seals it. Nice research. --[[User:Day|Day]] 07:15, 26 January 2006 (EST)

:I agree that it's BS-62. It's visible in the CIC wall in "Pegasus" and "Resurrection Ship" and visible on the podium in the pilot briefing room. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:13, 25 January 2006 (EST)
:Whether or not Pegasus is "BSG-62" is not in question: the page for BSG-62 was updated and confirmed as soon as "Resurrection Ship, Part I" came out, some time ago.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:17, 25 January 2006 (EST)
::Perhaps the BSGs are numbered after the lead ship in the group, like the flagship. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:28, 25 January 2006 (EST)

==Four Landing Strips?==
Did I just notice four landing strips in The Captain's Hand? one right side up and one upside down (relative to the rest of the shape, this is space after all, everything is relative). This would make sense with the images of the upside down launch tubes. Something commenting on the extra landing strips should be put in --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 03:08, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:No. We addressed this in the talk for Captain's Hand; the camera was upside down to reflect to the viewers that the ship was twisting around, etc. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:53, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Yes, the Pegasus was flying "inverted" relative to the Cameras POV...however the Pegasus does indeed possess 4 landing strips, @ 2 strips per Flight Pod. look at the following image: http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Pegasus01.jpg you can clearly see 4 landing strips in that image.As well as the fact that when she is recalling her vipers you can clearly see Vipers entering the Port Flight pod on both sides of the center line. Rewatch that sequence again its pretty obvious.--[[User:Strato|Strato]]

== Random ''Pegasus'' Name Trivia ==
I randomly came across the fact that there has been a [[Wikipedia:HMS Ark Royal (1914)|aircraft carrier named ''Pegasus'']]. Originally commissioned as the ''Ark Royal'', she was renamed ''Pegasus'' in order to free up ''Ark Royal'' for a new carrier being developed. I wonder if it's bad luck to rename a ship while still in service... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:19, 24 February 2006 (EST)
:Only if you give it an assignment against extremist Islam and their basesta-- I mean, Zodiac boats. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:55, 24 February 2006 (EST)

== Weapons ==

I believe that luanched craft should be excluded from weapons based on e.g. [[Wikipedia:USS Midway (CV-41)]] and [[Wikipedia:USS Nimitz (CVN-68)]] (and less strongly [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Akira_class]). I wouldn't object to a new template item parallel to "Aircraft" on the Midway entry. (I dislike the "Aircraft and aviation facilities:" naming of that item on the Nimitz article.) --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 15:23, 8 April 2006 (CDT)
:Well I guess someone should add the separate category for aircraft, like the one on "Midway". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:27, 8 April 2006 (CDT)
::I could go either way. Technically speaking, I don't think it's wrong to refer to an aircraft as a weapon - then again, so is the battlestar itself. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:27, 8 April 2006 (CDT)

==Battlestar Group==

Ok I changed the battlestar designation to '''BSG62''' ('''B'''attle'''s'''tar '''G'''roup) before looking into the histroy to see that its been changed and reverted several times before and there is a discusison above but im still none the wiser. In the background of ''Pegasus'' it [[:Image:Cain_Pegasus_emblem_BSG_63.jpg|quite clearly says BSG]] just as the official "Battlestar Galactica" [http://www.unificationfrance.com/IMG/jpg/logo_galactica.jpg logo] shows '''BSG75'''. Before I change the ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' article or anyone reverts this ''Pegasus'' page Id like to have a discussion about it please. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 09:23, 22 May 2006 (CDT)
:BS 62 is the ''hull number''. Think of it this way - in WW2, USS Saratoga (Hull number: CV-3) was the center of Task Force 38. In this case, the Group number (BSG) happens to coincide with the hull number of the lead ship (BS), but they're still separate designations. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:33, 22 May 2006 (CDT)
::Thats what i thought, except it seems odd that the hull number would also be the same as the group for Galactica too? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 09:43, 22 May 2006 (CDT)
:::Perhaps Peggie was the group flagship and the BSG is numbered after her, afterall she had a flag officer in command. Galactica could also be the same, in the Navy the USS Constitution, the oldest ship commisioned in the Navy is a flagship. Galactica might have had a similar role in the colonial fleet, compare how big the decommisioning ceremony was to the one for the USS Oriskany, the last of the WWII era Essex-class fleet carriers in active service (ironic because Oriskany was just sank a few days ago). --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 22 May 2006 (CDT)
::::I agree with Mercifull and his point of view. As with the designation, BSG stands for Battlestar group, NOT battlestar galactica. We can determine that the BSG assignment is on the battlestar's seal. BS75 could be a hull number as also mentioned. --[[User:Lgamser|Lgamser]] 21:35, 22 May 2006 (CDT)
:::::Whatever. This argument was settled months ago. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:45, 22 May 2006 (CDT)

== Reverse Gravity? ==

A recent edit added a mention of the 4 landing strips and then talked about gravity. As far as I know, and I may be wrong, ''Galactica'' uses magnets, not gravity for landing Vipers. I would assume, then, that ''Pegasus'' does, as well. Thus, moving from any of the five available flight pods would be the same, since the magnets would little affect the non-metalic pilots. Anyone else think the same way? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 02:44, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
:Agreed: we aren't actually sure if there's a different graviety field or not; they land using magnets. For all we know they climb out upside down (though this would be odd, maybe they have a platform that 180's I dunno): point is, it's speculation and might not necessarily be different gravity fields so we shouldn't assume its that. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:03, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

:: Well, the way I envision it all working is that you land you fighter and then sit in it through some kind of retreival process that all happens in zero-g except for the end which transitions you to gravity and sets you down on the hanger deck. That gives plenty of time for The Beast to flip half her fighters over before they're under noticable gravity. All of that is, of course, speculation. It's just what made sense to me. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 08:06, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

User talk:Day

2006-07-13T13:03:16Z

Day: /* Sindar translation */

''Conversations in the period of 29 Aug 2005 to 15 Feb 2006 have been [[User talk:Day/archive01|archived]].''

== Deletion Log Entry ==
Hooray! A search of the deletion log for user Day returns:
* 16:18, 16 February 2006 Day deleted "Image:Litmus2.jpg" (Redundant image.)
It has begun! Still no entries in the block log yet, but Spence and I don't either. Probably because of our intimidation factor. (Or maybe because I was sleeping on the job while Peter or Joe was actually looking after the place.) Congrats on the first delete! (And many more...) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:35, 16 February 2006 (EST)

: Block log? Man... Does this admin bit come with a fraking manual? "Of course not. That would be too logical." *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:56, 17 February 2006 (EST)

== Congrats ==

Just wanted to say Congratulations on your engagement. Best wishes! -- [[User:Laineylain|Laineylain]] 11:47, 14 March 2006 (CST)

: Thanks much. We're, perhaps obviously, pretty excited about it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:05, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::Just saw the announcement of your engagement and I too wanted to congratulate you. --Zareck Rocks 14:23, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:::Same here, congratulations. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:47, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== You desillifier :P ==

Party pooper. I thought that caption brought much levity to the article. :P

Bleh, I knew it wouldn't last. :)--[[User:Kross|Kross]] 14:29, 14 March 2006 (CST)

: We like to keep levity pretty [[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game|segregated]] from the rest of the wiki. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:05, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== All your fault ==

Dang you, Day.. all day I've been pondering a new game.. Battlestar Marathon.
All your fault... All of it. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]]

: Heh. A Marine-based Mod? Or maybe the Resistance? Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::Reskin the Pfhor/S'pht to be centurions (oldschool and newschool, respectively), assimilated Bobs become Agents, maps of Galactica & assorted other vessiles/locales... All your fault, Day... all your fault... *goes to play in pfhorge* --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 21:29, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== Check GMail; I can't get it! ==
Now it works.. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:17, 19 March 2006 (CST)

== Mistake on my part ==

I was moving a template and must have had the old version. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:47, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

: No worries. You use an outside editor, then? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 02:49, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

== Non-weapon guns ==
You know... like tasers, and bean bag rounds. Oh. Those are non-lethal (or less-lethal) weapons. Hmmm. Squirt guns, or cap guns/starter guns would be example of non-weapon guns. Though, I doubt Raiders are equipped with cap guns (as the odds of them getting caught up in a pickup game of cops and robbers or cowboys and indians out in space is probably pretty poor). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:34, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

: Maybe Raiders all use [[Wikipedia:Airsoft|Airsoft]]. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:32, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

== Sindar translation ==
I recalled that you have some experience with the Sindar language. I was trying to come up with a translation, but was falling short. I'm looking to have a name (for a rifle) that means "Prairie dog killer". Dog is easy (hû), killer might easily be circumlocuted to death (gûr n., gurth n., guruth n., guruthos n., gwanath n., gwanu n.), but prarie has me stumped. I tried plains, meadow (from the latin roots) and finally found grassland (grassland nan n., parth n). But... how does it all string together (correctly)? nanhûgurth? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:12, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

:For plains you should use "''Talath''", noun, Sindarin for "plain". -lad (as in "Dagorlad") is a suffix and difficult to manipulate as such, but more importantly it means "plain/valley" while ''talath'' means plains proper. I'd have used the ending -crist (something like "Praire Dog Cleaver") but that's not appropriate for a rifle).----->"''Gurth an yrch''" means "Death to the Orcs" (from one of the History of Middle-earth supplement books), ''talath'' isn't a suffix, it's a stand alone word, while ''hû'' is a word root but not a full word; it would need a suffix linked to it (but "Hulad" would be kind of inaccurate, see above). Actually, "Huan" literally means simply "hound" (the an is just added to make it a complete word). ----->So a name for such a rifle, (not so much a name as a slogan, but hey guns can be named "Death from Above" or "Vae Victus", not just "Charlene"), would be "'''''Gurth An Talath Huan'''''" = "Death to the Plains (Praire) Hounds". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:07, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
::That's great! Thanks, Merv! Talath fits "prairie" better than grassland. And you're right about the flexible naming. And I suppose it's pretty academic anyway as the intended targets can't read Tengwar and won't be close enough to read it if they could. However, good weapons do have names. "Cleaver" might actually work for a larger caliber rifle (but that might be a bit too gory of imagery for some). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:21, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

::: You also might consider a simple genetive relationship (i.e. your weapon is the "death of prariedogs"). In that case, you could let word order determine it, and shorten the name a bit. Assuming you guys did good vocab research (which is just to say I've not doulbe-checked you), you might do "Gurth Talath Huan". Or, following the example of some Elven names, you could make the phrase a name by hyphenation: Gurth-Talath-Huan. I'd be wary of just slamming the words together, though (this works sometimes, but only sometimes) as Gurthtalathhuan is... unwieldy. I wonder, though, if "Talath Huan" shouldn't have some kind of mutation to make it properly a compound word. I'll have to think on this. Similarly "huan" is singluar. I assume you want plural, which would be... maybe, "hyain"? That looks wrong to me. Bears further research. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:58, 12 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Okay. Done some research. I disagree with Merv that ''hû'' is not a word proper. I think it's simply a mono-syllable. Thus, the plural would be ''hŷ'' ("y" in this case not being the consonant we know in English, but the high, front, rounded vowel from Old English represented in the IPA by the same letter). I concur with ''talath'' being the best bet for "prarie" and ''gurth'' for "death".

::: Also, turns out we should be looking at lentiion for our compound word. So if "prarie" + "dog" = "prariedog" then ''talath'' + ''hû'' = ''talath-chú'' (notice that "ch" in this case is not as in "church" but as in "Bach" with actual German pronunciation). If you wanted to get rid of the hyphen (as I have an inclination to do), I think your best bet would be to render it as ''talachú''. That's a little more speculation than I'd be comfortable with if this were some kind of academic paper (which I've written on the subject), but for your purposes I think it is fine. The plural, then, of ''talachú'' would be ''telechý'' which is just ''full'' of sounds I love (IPA [x] and [y]).

::: The circumflex over ''hû'' simply denotes vowel lenth (as in amount of time spent saying it) and in monosyllables, what would otherwise be a long vowel (twice normal duration) becomes even stronger (three times normal duration). The accent in ''talachú'' is the denotion of that doulbe-duration, as opposed to the tripple-duration mentioned above.

::: In conclusion, I think you want ''Gurth-Telechý'' for "Death of Prariedogs" or, if you prefer the prepositional way Merv suggested, it could be ''Gurth a Thelechý'' for "Death to Prariedogs!" Now, one last note... If you wanted it to be "''The'' Death of Prariedogs" (i.e. to translate the article as well), you'd want ''I 'Urth Telechý'' as the article, there, causes lenition, as well. Lemme know if you want links to some of the resources I trust/rely on. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 15:33, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
::::Something like:
::::http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/steel_viper/deathofprariedogs.png?
::::Shorter is likely better, and I'd prefer the "title" to the "motto". I still have no idea how I'd get tengwar onto the stock, but it isn't a pressing issue as inventory issues have pushed back the arrival of the weapon anyway. Thanks for your help, guys. I was watching the appendix discs of LOTR last night, and when they had the "Tolkien Linguist" on, I thought of you guys. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:11, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

:::::[[image:gurth-telechy.jpg|right]] David Salo? I think that's the name, anyway. I exchanged a few emails with him once. He seemed to be a really nice guy. And, how the Tengwar look depends on the mode. I think you're wanting to use the [http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/tengwar/sindar.htm Sindarin "classical" mode], based on how you rendered your vowels. In which case, you want: "anga, rómen (w/ open-left curl), thúle" then "tinco, lambe (w/ acute accent), harma? (w/ acute accent), long stem with two dots above" (see right). --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 08:03, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Star of Kobol

2006-07-12T20:43:13Z

Day:

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Move Squad

2006-07-12T20:40:15Z

Day:

User talk:Day

2006-07-12T20:33:00Z

Day: /* Sindar translation */

User talk:Day

2006-07-12T19:58:35Z

Day: /* Sindar translation */

Talk:Pegasus (TRS)/Archive 1

2006-07-12T07:44:10Z

Day: Reverse Gravity?

Thomas Zarek

2006-07-12T03:41:02Z

Day: /* Baltar's Election Campaign */ COMMA! *fanfare*

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:zarek.jpg|200px]]
|age= Early 50s
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]
|birthname= Thomas Zarek
|callsign=
|seen=Bastille Day
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status= Single
|role= Representing Sagittaron on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]
|rank= Councilman
|actor= [[Richard Hatch]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Tom Zarek''' was a political activist for more than 30 years before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. He is a charismatic, eloquent and ideological political agitator who was incarcerated for destroying a government building on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]. His 20-year incarceration culminated in a sojurn in the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', a [[FTL]]-capable prison ship, whilst in transit to parole hearings. Assigned the prison number of [[893893]], Zarek was under consideration for parole at the time of the [[Cylon attack]].

== Biography ==

Zarek came from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], a colony known to be mistreated by the other eleven [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonies]]. Through his experiences on that colony, he became an advocate of freedom from slavery. Zarek became a voice for the disenfranchised and, along with publishing a book that was virtually banned throughout the Colonies, actively sought to fight against injustices.

To some he is considered a terrorist and nuisance for his tactics, which included the destruction of a government building that resulted in an unspecified loss of life. He believes in the efficacy of violence as a means of change, going as so far as to go to prison over a "matter of conscience" and his refusal of President [[Richard Adar|Richard Adar's]] politically motivated conditional pardon (the conditions of the pardon being that he would publicly apologize and pledge to give up violence as a means of change).

Even some of his fellow Sagittarons have an intense dislike of him, including Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]. Despite this, he became a public figure whose name had weight and almost became legendary, thanks to public opinion ([[Bastille Day]]).

== After the Exodus ==

After avoiding the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' commander's desire to euthanize the prisoners (thanks to President [[Laura Roslin]]'s humanitarian decision) ([[Miniseries]]) Zarek plots to escape captivity. With the water shortage and the discovery of a planet that could replenish the lost water ([[Water]]), Commander [[William Adama|Adama]], [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] and President Roslin reluctantly decide to ask the prisoners to volunteer as badly needed manpower, under the condition that they would not be treated as slaves and they would agree of their own volition.

After [[Lee Adama]]'s unsuccessful attempt to persuade the prisoners to help in the recovery efforts, Zarek's springs the prisoners' escape plan. The prisoners, under Zarek's command, usurp control of the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', and takes her crew and ''Galactica's'' visitors as prisoners. Zarek states his terms for release of the prisoners: the resignation of [[Laura Roslin]] and her administration, and the start of free and open elections for a new president. Zarek deems Roslin's presidency as illegitimate and illegal (clearly, the details of [[Case Orange]] were not made public, though even if they were, Zarek wouldn't have backed down).

Unfortunately, Zarek's aims are not in keeping with his demands; he wants a bloodbath to ensue, believing that all that people understand is violence, and that a bloodbath would destroy any credibility that Adama and Roslin have.

When the situation deteriorates near the point of catastrophe for all involved, Zarek, ready to sacrifice his life for his beliefs, is swayed by [[Lee Adama]]'s promise that he would uphold the [[Articles of Colonization]] and hold open elections for a new president, once Roslin had served the remainder of President Adar's term (as dictated by the Articles and Case Orange), as well as give the ship over to the prisoners as a show of good faith.

== Attempts for Political Power ==
[[Image:Home_pt1_debate.jpg|thumb|left|[[Tom Zarek]] in debate with [[Quorum of Twelve|Quorum members]]. (C. Sci-Fi Channel)
]]
With a degree of freedom obtained by the prisoners - including control of the ''Astral Queen'', Zarek engages in a steady effort to gain the goodwill of others of influence within the fleet. This effort includes physical acts of support for other ships (such as fixing the air filtration system on the ship occupied by [[Marshall Bagott]], a politician from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]]).

Zarek's efforts result in a nomination as the Representative of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]] on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. From there, Zarek makes a bid for the position of Vice President using the support of those he assisted, and possibly badgered ([[Colonial Day]]).

While Zarek's attempt at the Vice Presidency fails after Roslin replaces the somewhat unlikeable [[Wallace Gray]] with the charismatic Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] as an alternative candidate, Zarek makes it clear to Roslin that he will be standing against her in the elections.

Zarek remains possibly the most powerful and popular representative in the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. 

== Breakaway from [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] ==

The schism created by Commander Adama's unlawful arrest of President Roslin and [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]]'s declaration of [[Wikipedia:martial law|martial law]] presents Zarek with an opportunity to convince others that Adama is after total control of the Fleet. Zarek likely sought to use Tigh's inexperience with dealing with the government and [[Colonial Press|press]] against the military powers. Zarek and the Quorum soon learn of Roslin's terminal cancer, after Tigh permits the Quorum of Twelve to see her in ''Galactica'''s brig ([[Fragged]]).

After the ''[[Gideon]]'' incident, where four civilians die, some crewmembers of ''Galactica'' orchestrate Roslin's escape. Lee Adama, knowing they would be hunted throughout the Fleet, enlists Zarek's assistance in secreting Roslin away from Tigh and Commander Adama ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]], [[The Farm]]). Roslin is initially dismayed to be greeted by Zarek, but realizes that Zarek, no friend to Adama or Tigh, is "the enemy of my enemy."

Zarek and Roslin attempt to use appeals by recorded [[wireless]] messages to sway favor in the Fleet to return to Kobol. Zarek convinces Lee Adama at first to create a dissenting message against ''Galactica's'' rule, but Lee changes his mind (probably because he swore to his comatose father that it wasn't about them). After Roslin plays the "religious card" to sway support for her cause in the Fleet, Roslin and Zarek lead a [[Laura Roslin faction|separatist fleet]] back to [[Kobol]] to await [[Kara Thrace]]'s return with the [[Arrow of Apollo]], for use in unlocking the [[Tomb of Athena]].

Zarek, with his associate [[Meier]], plan to eliminate the young Captain Adama on Kobol, using the rationalization about [[Zeus]]' warning that any return to Kobol would "exact a price in blood". Zarek feels that removing the young Adama would create a political power vacuum, allowing Zarek to take the position as captain of factioned Fleet, while Roslin would remain president ([[Home, Part I]]).

Zarek abandons the assassination plan when Commander Adama arrives on Kobol to mend fences with Roslin. However, Meier privately revises the plan outside of Zarek's knowledge, now with the goal of eliminating both Adamas by soliciting the help of the [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] that returned with [[Karl Agathon]] and Thrace. Unfortunately for Zarek, Sharon Valerii double-crosses Meier, killing him at the entrance to the Tomb of Athena. While none in the group immediately consider Zarek as a suspect in Meier's assassination attempt, Commander Adama remains guarded and leaves Zarek and several others outside of the Tomb under the watchful eye of [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] while they unlock its secrets ([[Home, Part II]]).

==After Fleet Reunification==
Zarek later gives [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] information regarding the [[Black market (organization)|black market]], initially claiming not to be a part of it because he needs to keep his hands clean, but ultimately points out that the black market does get supplies where they are needed. Nonetheless, Zarek mentions the central hub of the black market, ''[[Prometheus]]'', a ship so lawless it's practically "off the grid", as well as the name of its "businessman", [[Phelan]]. However, soon after Phelan's death at the hands of Apollo, Tom Zarek is seen walking through a crowd on the Prometheus with one of Phelan's old henchmen in tow. It is unknown how much involvment Tom Zarek has with the organization ([[Black Market]]).

Despite being the presumed opponent of Roslin in the upcoming presidential election, Zarek decides not to run against her because he realizes he probably won't win the election...but he decides that there's someone else that might be able to unseat Roslin, vice president [[Gaius Baltar]]. Zarek manages to talk vice president Gauis Baltar into running in his place, perhaps as part of a more long-term plan to ascend to power ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

==Baltar's Election Campaign==
When Baltar announces his run for the Presidency, Zarek assumes a position as his campaign manager. For all Zarek's personal political talent he has a hard time managing Baltar's campaign and faces the tough issue of whether Baltar is an electable candidate. After being trounced in the first debate by Roslin, Baltar's political future is in deep jeopardy and Zarek is left looking for a stronger wedge-issue other than Roslin's ties to the religious Gemenese. As if delivered by the hand of [[God]], an issue presents itself that they can get on the supposed right side of; the colonization of a [[New Caprica|newly discovered planet]] and a safe-haven from the Cylons. Zarek presses Baltar to pick up this issue and run with it and as soon as he does his political fortunes turn around dramatically. Like he predicted the people rally around the idea of colonization and Baltar sails out of the final debate with a wide lead on Roslin ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

With his job of campaign manager all but over on election day, there isn't much for Zarek to do but sit back and wait for the results to come in. When the initial tallies come in suggesting Roslin scored a remarkable come-back victory he says to Baltar that he's seen enough elections to recognize a fixed one. Baltar admonishes Zarek, maintaining that, whatever Laura Roslin is, she is above fixing an election.

{{spoiltext|Zarek is not seen again when the story picks up one year later on New Caprica, but according to Ronald Moore's blog[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/03/#000410], Zarek was "...Vice President, but his relationship with Baltar went south relatively quickly, and he simply refused to cooperate once the Cylon occupation began."}}

== Notes ==

Tom Zarek is portrayed by actor [[Richard Hatch]], who portrayed the original [[Apollo (TOS)|Apollo]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|1978 ''Battlestar Galactica'' series]].

Hatch has written novels based on the original series, and also leads an attempt to bring the Original Series back theatrically in a project called "[[Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming]]."

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown)''|title=Sagittaron delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]|after=''(unknown)''}}
{{succession box (spoiler)|before=Gaius Baltar|title=[[Government|Vice President of the Twelve Colonies]]|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:Characters|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:RDM|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:People from Sagittaron|Zarek, Tom]]

Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions

2006-07-11T22:01:16Z

Day: /* Category's - A, B, and C */

:'''''Note''': Individual discussions which we believe have reached consensus have been archived.''

{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 01
| number = 1
| start = September 10th, 2005
| end = November 31st, 2005
| items = {{archive-item|01|Verb Tense}} {{archive-item|01|Ship Naming, Abbrevation and Capitalization Standards}} {{archive-item|01|Signing Your Work}} {{archive-item|01|Spelling}} {{archive-item|01|Single-name Address}} {{archive-item|01|Episode Links and Formatting}} {{archive-item|01|Proposed Guidelines for Dispute Resoluton on Speculative Matters}} {{archive-item|01|Quorum of Twelve}} {{archive-item|01|Namespaces|end=y}}
|}}
{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 02
| number = 2
| start = December 1st, 2005
| end = February 5th, 2006
| items = {{archive-item|02|Disambiguation}} {{archive-item|02|Image Sizes}} {{archive-item|02|Image Credit}} {{archive-item|02|The Freakin' Quote-o-Matic}} {{archive-item|02|Links}} {{archive-item|02|HTML}} {{archive-item|02|Verb Tense 2}} {{archive-item|02|Ranks and Locations}} {{archive-item|02|Image Format}} {{archive-item|02|Image Control Station}} {{archive-item|02|Dates}} {{archive-item|02|Battle pages formatting}} {{archive-item|02|Ages}} {{archive-item|02|Ship gender}} {{archive-item|02|XHTML Compliance}} {{archive-item|02|Policy?}} {{archive-item|02|Replacement and retirement of the term "Humano-Cylon"}} {{archive-item|02|Punctuation|end=Y}}
|}}
{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 03
| number = 3
| start = March 17th, 2006
| end = April 25th, 2006
| items = {{archive-item|03|After Questions...now Analysis?}} {{archive-item|03|Disambiguation Location}} {{archive-item|03|Cast pages Overview section}} {{archive-item|03|Template Font Size and Design}} {{archive-item|03|Succession Boxes}} {{archive-item|03|Regarding excerpts from larger articles in other pages}} {{archive-item|03|Regarding succession box formats}} {{archive-item|03|Archives Pages|end=Y}}
|}}

== Battlestar Wiki should be... ==

...always in ''italics''. If it happens to become bold, that is fine, but always ''italiced''. Any comments --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:32, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

:That strikes me as annoying, not particularly useful, and exceedingly hard to impose on the vast number of existing instances. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 22:23, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

:: Concur. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:55, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

:::Is there not a word censor feature on the wiki, to perhaps change all instances of Battlestar Wiki into ''Battlestar Wiki''? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:16, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

== Outline rules ==

I've mentioned this before [[#Cast pages Overview section|on this page]], but it's getting really annoying now. It seems so stupid to have an "Overview" section and force the TOC above it in every article. The first paragraph should be the overview or introduction section. It doesn't need a header. For example: In [[Greek mythology]], the "Introduction" Section should just be the first paragraph. And look at [[Dean Stockwell]], Someone has added an "Overview" section and the used _ _TOC_ _ to force the wiki to behave badly. That article should not even have a TOC! Another example: [[Donner]], should not have an "Overview" header, but at least they didn't add a TOC. This is most obvious in episode articles like [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]. The "Overview" section should just be the first paragraph. Is this a policy? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Can someone explain why we ignore standard wiki format, standard outline rules, and common sense?

If this is talked about somewhere else, please point me there.

--[[User:Bp|Bp]] 10:55, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

: No, it is not a policy. Merely a style choice that was never really hammered down. Now, with articles like [[Donner]], I don't see the point of a header (which I removed). Now, on the other hand... in regards to the episode articles... the primary format was taken from [http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5], which [http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/022.html includes the overview header]. So that's where ''that'' came from. And it makes sense there, in my view. By the way, and I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but what is "standard Wiki format"? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:11, 5 May 2006 (CDT)
::Standard wiki style is the style that MediaWiki was designed to use. It isn't a coincidence that the TOC is added after the first paragraph by default. The overview should be an immediately available brief summary or introduction in a standard place in every article: the very first line. It is more efficient for quick browseing because it doesn't require any extra clicking or scrolling, and it makes more sense. The Dean Stockwell article is a perfect example of ''breaking'' the design by forcing the TOC to the top. What also makes it standard is it's use on Wikipedia. Not trying to be a jerk, --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 12:24, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

:: Good point. :-) What has everyone else to say about it? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:59, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

:::I agree with Bp. It's a pity we haven't been more zealous about this. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:57, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

:::I agree: headers have been somewhat zealous. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:20, 5 May 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm not sure that word means what you think it means. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

::::Let me s'plain. My father was killed by a six-fingered man...---[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:08, 5 May 2006 (CDT)
::It's been about a week now and it doesn't look like there is any objection, so what is the next step? Can I just start changing them? --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 18:55, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

:::I would be fine with your going ahead with the changes... except for the episode pages, as moving the overview above the TOC there appears quite disconcerting, in my view. (I've tried it, and I was adverse to it from an asthetic point of view, likely because of the Lurker's Guide.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:46, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

:::: I agree with BP. I prefer not saying "Here's an introduction:". It's kind of like, "Can I ask you a question?" No need to introduce the introduction. Peter and I had gone through a handful of pages a long time ago and written introductions, or moved stuff up to make an intro paragraph. I think it might have been characters mostly, but I honestly can't remember. Maybe I dreamed it. Anyway, I went and played with Lay Down Your Burdens, Pt. 1 (since the link was handy) and, at least in preview mode, I think I like the overview to have no header and appear above the TOC. However, I acknowledge that others might disagree, so maybe we should have a vote, singling out Episode pages. If you're really wanting to get going on doing a lot of these edits, BP, I'd say start with non-Episode pages until we get that sorted. Lord knows there's plenty of 'em. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:15, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

== "Battle" Pages Format and Guideline Proposal ==

Per the [[Fall of New Caprica]] talk, the "Battle" pages do require standardization, so I propose the following qualifiers for the future.

"Guidelines for creating a "Battle" page:

* Any major military confrontation in an episode should have a Battle page.
* Battle pages are generally ''military conflict summaries'', NOT episode summaries. Use the episode articles to summarize events and conversations not related to the Battle page's focus. Likewise, avoid the use of quotes unless it has critical importance to the page. Use narrative format as a general rule.
* The content of the article should only include battle summaries, tactics, ship movements, major decisions of key political or military characters related to the welfare of the ships, their crew or the colonists.
* Battle pages are appropriate for troop-level fighting (such as the [[Battle of Kobol]]), but focus must be kept on the relevant events and less on the general mood and actions of all characters.
* Battle pages should not include real-world Earth discussions, comparisons or contrasts. If a particular tactic or technology is used that has an Earth equivalent that deserves clarification, place that information in a relevant existing or new article and add the link to the Battle page as appropriate.
* A Battle page works best with direct military conflict (whether or not fire is exchanged between combatants), but can be adjusted for certain political events that have a serious military consequence with direct conflict potential. While the "Fall of New Caprica" event is not a battle, the change of power is in effect a "win/lose" consequence that could have grave tactical ramifications.
* Each Battle page uses a summary template. If you have difficulty in defining the content of the summary template, then it is likely that the content is inappropriate for a Battle page, and should be entered in another article.

Battlestar Wiki's "Battle" articles are based on a similar design used on Wikipedia. Two useful examples to aid contributors include Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:World War II|World War II]] article and the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]] article."

Comments on this? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:58, 10 May 2006 (CDT)

:I originally wrote a rather long treatise on how to handle Battle pages, towards the [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions#Battle pages|top of our discussion]] here at #11. Anyone might want to read that for my previous expounding on the subject. Anyway, my guideline for what to include was based on Wikipedia, but once again I find myself looking at Memory Alpha for their articles on the Battle of Wolf 359 or Battle of Cardassia, etc.

:Here is where I must disagree: battle pages should only be made for when shots are actually exchanged. I didn't think "Galactica Vs. Pegasus" should be an article, though it got voted in it was with much contention, and sort of shows the "borderline" of the most extreme case which might be in here. But "Fall of New Caprica" should be deleted or heavily altered. It wasn't a battle at all. I like SteelViper's thoughts on the subject, that "Fall of Saigon" is an "even" in wikipedia but not a battle, so we should remove battle template boxes and such from it at the very ''least''. Still, a lot of work needs to be done on these and I'll find time in the next few days.

:Nextly, --->It looks really awkward to put the entire battle article in the present tense/active voice, and we should not do that. Look at how Memory Alpha or Wikipedia writes battle pages. It sounds very awkward, and unlike a character bio or episode guide, a battle is one finite event and really should not use this. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:22, 10 May 2006 (CDT)
:: I totally agree with Spencerian. One point, though that I want to comment on, anytime an Episode shows miltary personal consipring and uses force against any target (weather that would be Galacicia v. Peaguas). That's about it. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:57, 10 May 2006 (CDT)

:::Would you want to include the Galactica's boarding of Colonial One or the GIdeon then? I think that's a little excessive (although I agree with the inclusion of the fall of New Caprica, as I've stated above, and don't think that's seriously up for debate) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:27, 10 May 2006 (CDT)

::::Really excessive, there. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:54, 10 May 2006 (CDT)
::::Even I think that is "excessive". But that is not vs. a miltary target. It is civilian. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:29, 10 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::I think we were confused by your use of the phrase "any target" above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:02, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
::::::On a side note... {{tl|Battle Data}} is up for review. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:58, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::::It looks good to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:03, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

::::::::I'm not keen on the phrase "Attacker/Defender" in there. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 06:11, 12 May 2006 (CDT)

::::::::I can understand using "attacker" and "defender" from a differentation standpoint, although it may be better to use something more generic. But how does this new template differ from the previously used template? I'm unclear why this template would be used. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:17, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::Color scheme. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:47, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
::::::::::More specifically, a central location where you could control/maintain the color sheme (and "classes" for the css) rather than having to individually update individual battle boxes each time a change needed to be made. The current pages use a "hand-made" table, rather than a template (which made sense when there weren't many battles). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:59, 12 May 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::::Got it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:53, 13 May 2006 (CDT)

===Battle Page Verb Tense===

''An earlier thread also appears on [[User talk:The Merovingian#Battle Pages Verb Tense|The Merovingian's user talk page]].''

If you look, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions#Verb_Tense Standards and Conventions] for Verb Tense says that historical events are excepted: Battles are an exception, as they're not in the episode guide but written as a historical event. They have awkward flow when they're in the present tense. I like what SteelViper said a while ago: Galactica vs. Pegasus represented the '''extreme'' "borderline" of what constitutes such a page, but really what justifies a battle page I wrote in my treatise above at #11: shots actually have to be fired, and it has to be just more than a minor skirmish; something resulting in the loss of a viper ''might'' qualify: for example, the Skirmish over the Red Moon counts, shooting only two Raiders in "Final Cut" with no Viper loses does not, and the events of "Scar" don't count as a battle because it was low-level fighting drawn out over a month (wikipedia would never list "battle of that mission where one American pilot shot down one Japanese pilot", etc.) It kind of depends on the scale. I'm cleaning these up...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:49, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:Your interpretation is not correct, Merv. "Historical events" are flashbacks or other events that occur outside of the "start" of the aired chronological events of the show in the "present" time of the characters just before the Cylon attack. The historical range is the start of the miniseries to the end of season 2 right now. Any flashbacks of events that occur prior are indeed "historical." The flashback of Adama and Tigh's first meeting as shown in "Scattered" are historical. The events of '''all battles''' shown to date are in the "present" and are NOT historical, per the reason we use present tense in fiction and the reason for our policy. If the show were to show a battle that occurred before the series and miniseries, then that works for past tense. Many character bios also speak in past tense under the same guidelines with their flashback history. Wikipedia does what it does because it (1) has that as its policy and (2) is speaking of actual human events of the past. I don't want to even go into what Memory Alpha does (how they keep the chronological, retconned, and contradictory world of ''Star Trek'' together in a wiki is more magical than logical) except that they have their own rules. And we have ours, here, that have been discussed and established as consensus, and thus policy. Consensus does NOT expire, but can be reentertained for change at a later time--again, through consensus. You cannot change a page just because no one has talked about the ''idea'' of changing the tense. You really need to ask the group first before making such dramatic changes against the policy. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:52, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

=="The" Galactica==
This is discussed in the front page of this policy, #5 "Ships". It says we shouldn't refer to ''Galactica'' as "the ''Galactica''". We've usually eliminated this from new articles. However, I've been rewatching much of the series in marathon recently, and I've realized that in ''practially every episode'' someone (even Admiral Adama) refers to it as "the ''Galactica''. ***They actually use both terms '''interchangeably''' on the show. This is really just a minor point and not drastically affecting anything, I'm just saying that in light of this we should loosen up on the restrictions on that; seeing as "Galactica" (with no definate article "the") is also correct, that means we don't have to go through every article in the entire wiki and change things. I'm just saying, in all future articles, we should be more lax about this. Because I've asked aquintances who served in the Navy and they've told me that vessels were referred to as "the Indianapolis", "The Los Angeles", etc. etc. Agree, disagree?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 16:25, 26 May 2006 (CDT)

:They (the writers) may make the characters say anything they wish. However, since we are intended as a reference, we need to stick to one way of doing things to keep things from looking odd, at the least. Thus, no definite articles on ship names. Now, there is a convention problem on the TOS pages where we have exactly this problem, which calls for us to conventionize it--despite that almost all times the term used on the show is almost always "the ''Galactica.'' The RDM show, as with all things, will fall out of its own convention, but for our purposes of keeping things orderly, we cannot take that luxury. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:22, 26 May 2006 (CDT)

::Well, I really don't understand what you're trying to convey: the writers and the show itself doesn't have a convention, so we should try to establish an arbitrary convention? My big point is: you're saying that "the show might fall out of its own convention"....but I was never convinced that this ''was'' a convention. At what point did it become apparent that there was a "don't use the definative article" rule in existence? Is what I'm asking. And If BSG TOS almost always refers to it as "The"....wouldn't that mean that, purely within the realm of TOS, saying "The Galactica" is a convention? I don't understand why just "Galactica" is currently supposed to be a convention---->I mean, do modern navies say that? Because I've checked around and US Navy vessels use the definate article "The" as well. It doesn't make a difference.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:31, 26 May 2006 (CDT)

::: When we were originally discussing this (it was one of the earliest discussions of this project), I thought we determined that the US Navy did refrain from using the definite article when refering to a ship, at least in official documents. I'm not saying there's no way we could have been/are wrong, but I'd be much more interested to see how various news papers, Navy press releases, etc. refer to ships. In speaking, people tend to be much more lax, but I'd prefer to borrow from, say, the AP handbook on this. In fact, I have a friend who is a journalist and keeps track of this kind of thing. Should I ask him what the AP rules on this? Does anyone care what they say? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:33, 26 May 2006 (CDT)

::::Oh yeah, Day, exactly; if you can find some thing that says official documents do not use "the" that would be great confirmation. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:23, 27 May 2006 (CDT)

::::: Got it. The relevant text will follow, but the Navy has a whole [http://www.news.navy.mil/tools/view_styleguide.asp?sort=S Style Guide].

:::::: '''ship names''' - For first reference always include USS, the ship's name and the hull number: USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75).

:::::: Exceptions: Do not use "USS" for ships before 1909; or if she is not yet in commission; or she has been decommissioned and you are referring to the ship in her present state.

:::::: There is no hyphen in the hull number. In All Hands text, the ship name is in italics. On second reference, use only the ship's name. Do not use "the" in front of a ship's name: "USS San Jose," not "the USS San Jose."

:::::: Ships are to be referred to as "she" or "her."

:::::: Ships' nicknames are placed inside quotation marks on first reference only. USS LaSalle (AGF 3), the "Great White Ghost," sailed into San Diego.

:::::: Ship names are not in all caps. Use USS Seattle, not USS SEATTLE.

::::: So that's what the US Navy has to say about it, anyway. We can take it or leave it, but it would be pretty easy just to steal it wholesale. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 21:21, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

::::::Steal it wholesale :) Thanks: that's a definative answer. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:58, 28 May 2006 (CDT)
:::::::Concur. Steal it and cite it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:04, 28 May 2006 (CDT)
:::::::Whatever floats the boat, gentlemen, so long as it keeps us to a standard. Mind you, what the US Navy uses is not necessarily what the Colonial Fleet uses, so if I were to see a conflict (based on consistency of usage in episodes), this is something we should review. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:25, 29 May 2006 (CDT)

Incorperated into the Ships section. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 03:47, 15 June 2006 (CDT)

== American vs British English Style Usage ==

This wiki started with several initial contributors from the U.K. As such, these contributions were written in the Queen's English (things such as ''centre'' and not the American English ''center'', for example). As ''Battlestar'' season 1 aired in the U.S. and American contributions increased, there is a predominant usage of American English in the wiki. I noted that [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|one user]] had recently edited a page, correcting some misspellings but also changing correct American English words to their British counterpart. I asked Joe about this very early on in my editing last year, and he noted that we should use American English. I commented on None's talk page about this, adding the following (which I recommend as policy):

*Please use American English for wiki contributions in the English version of ''Battlestar Wiki'' whereever possible.
*If you are British, please feel free to add your contributions in the "Queen's English" as this will make it easier for you to contribute. However, please do not re-edit correctly spelled American English edits to their British counterparts unless you are rewriting whole paragraphs, sections, or articles.''
Commments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:47, 1 June 2006 (CDT)
:I must say I am to blame as well for doing this once or twice. When going through pages correcting typos using spell checkers I also found myself accidently "correcting" american spellings for british. Oops --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 15:14, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

::I believe this policy is already stated on the main S&C page, but you can feel free to clarify it if you feel that's necessary. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:49, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

::: Yeah. I thought that was pretty clear, but go ahead and make it more so, if you want, Spence. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 19:59, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

:I agree completely, Spencerian. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:30, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

Clarified the existing policy. I didn't see the phrase "American English" in my scan. This doesn't apply to the non-English versions of the wiki, so someone with proper or appropriate fluency should restate the policy for these wiki versions so we don't have European Spanish and Mexican Spanish confusions, to take one example. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:13, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

==Comics Canonicity==
I'm worried about information from [[Battlestar Galactica 0]]. I'm not sure it's entirely canon (i.e. aside from just that it's a comic, they've got Cylons making cloned copies of humans before "Pegasus" when Ron Moore said that they haven't done that ''yet'', and if they didn't they'd make a big deal out of it). ---->Anyway, I like what Memory Alpha does: we shouldn't remove the actual articles for things found in the comic, "[[Third Colonial Conflict]]", etc., however, they shouldn't find their way into normal RIC articles, like the Timeline, character bios, etc. etc. You know. So I don't think these articles should be deleted, but I think we should develop a new template to put at the top of each that says "This is from a comic, not canon", and that we shouldn't mix them into standard articles. What's everyone else's thoughts (after seeing the stuff)?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ;sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:14, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
: I concur. We should keep the stuff, but note that it isn't canon and ensure that it doesn't spill over into the canon articles. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:29, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
: We could also move these articles as subpages of the comic, so they don't proliferate the canon namespace. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:32, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
::I agree, but I don't know how to do that. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:37, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
:::That's not a problem. I could do that, if there's consensus to do so. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:49, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
*The comics are fully within BSG canon. The writer and producers have said that several times and it says so in BSG 0. However, since you have made it clear that this "encyclopedia" is not interested in anything except episodes that have already aired, I'll save you the trouble of doing anything further with it. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:58, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
**All we can do is ask about it directly in the blog, but seriously, I think what RDM did was give it a 5 minute once over, realize they weren't killing off Baltar by making his head explode or say that Apollo and Starbuck are long lost brother and sister, and then gave it the go-ahead for merchandise/publicity. Until we get more word from RDM on the particulars, I don't think a "holding pattern" of keeping it segregated could hurt. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:18, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
** Kuralyov, where have the producers and writers said that these works are canon? Please provide some links to interviews and so forth. Thanks. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:38, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

::This is a simple issue. The comics are canon within their own continuity. Where they interesect the main continuity in a purely perfunctory manner (such as [[Zak Adama]]), it should be fine to footnote the incident. When large liberties are taken, we can resort to namespaced articles as necessary. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:43, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

:::I concur with Peter on this. I really loved the first issue, but what happens in the comic may not necessarily reflect what's aired in the main series and should be labeled or tagged as such. I'm even OK with using the episode template to further define its continuity (which forces "episode" pages to delineate things) and we already have all the tools, and it also invites discussion. I may move this first comic page to this format just to kill several birds with one stone about this topic to show what I mean. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:59, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

::: Then we need to define what a "large liberty" is so that we know it when we see it. I'd be fine including these events as full cannon if someone can show me RDM saying it's cool. Otherwise, we might take a hint from Lucasarts and develop a kind of "level" of cannonicity, or else treat the comic kind of liek the video game: strangely related in some ways, but not really... right. If you take my meaning. If not, I'll try to explain again. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:16, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

::::Hm. Good point, and Merv's concern makes more sense to me in terms of the edits on [[Timeline (RDM)]]. What if we put all semi-canonical plot points (comics, novels, etc.) in their own section of the concerned articles, to avoid mingling content? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:29, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

::::"like the video game: strangely related in some ways, but not really... right." My thoughts exactly. Well I don't really agree with your idea Peter, though I would not actively oppose it if you decide to do it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 07:44, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::The difference is that the video game does not take place in the same continuity as RDM at all, whereas the comics do have to acknolwedge RDM continuity - just not vice-versa. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:45, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::: I've not played it, but my impression was that the video game was supposed to have happened to Bill in the Cylon War, right? So, isn't it supposed to be part of the continuity? Or does it have some kind of big details that make it obvious that it wasn't, really, intended to be in-continuity (as opposed to things like Twelve Colonies = 12 planets vs. TC = 1 planet that would show it being related, but at an early stage in development of the show)? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:35, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::I wish it were that easy. The game created or added elements that were to be used in the Singer/DeSanto revival and derived elements from TOS. The William Adama there is actually the one that works more like the original Adama of TOS. There is an Imperious Leader there, with a name, and he seems more like an organic being TOS Cylon. So for the sake of keeping things together, the VG is its own continuity that's really neither TOS or RDM. See [[Video Game]] for more. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:18, 5 June 2006 (CDT)

==Our Name==
I note that shane has been italicizing "Battlestar Wiki" wherever he includes it. Do we like this? I suppose it's the style we'd use if we were referring to, say, ''Britannica'', but it seems a little self-important to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:17, 15 June 2006 (CDT)
:To note, for reference, I started doing this after I saw a few other places (got to be back around count 40 in my contribs). When Battlestar Wiki refers to itself, "Battestar Wiki uses the etc etc." it not supposed to be quoted, but if a verb follows or preceds (i.e "These are images used exclusively on ''Battlestar Wiki''.") with "on" being the verb refering to the site. If Battelstar Wiki was talking, yes it be non-italixized. But most of the times we refer to ''Battlestar Wiki''. A great place that ''Battlestar Wiki'' is italicized is {{tl|Project}}. "This page is one of ''Battlestar Wiki'''s many projects." implying Battlestar Wiki. Am I making any sence? :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:36, 15 June 2006 (CDT)
:In different places on this page it's used several different ways.. ''Battlestar Wiki'', BattlestarWiki, and Battlestar Wiki. I don't know, but I can tell you that having ''Battlestar Wiki'' as two words, needs to standout instead of Battlestar Wiki. Wikipieda can get away with this because it's just one word. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:43, 15 June 2006 (CDT)
:Another note, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Battlestar_Wiki_talk:Standards_and_Conventions#Battlestar_Wiki_should_be... above...] --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:45, 15 June 2006 (CDT)
::It seems like consensus was against italics above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 15 June 2006 (CDT)
:::I ''still'' feel that it should be italizied, and I know joe agreed with CA, but if I had to talk about this issue now, this is how I feel. Granted there are occatiosn when it shouldn't but in most case it has been italiced. I really think its of option in style. Just typing this, I relzied why we should italized. The namespace Battlestar Wiki. This can make it stand out if it's in a project page or text seperate from the namespace. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:05, 15 June 2006 (CDT)

:::: As ever, if we do something other than whatever's default (normal text, in this case) I think we should find some outside convention and steal it. When quoting the title of a web page for a bibliography (or Sources Cited page), [[Wikipedia:MLA style manual#Citation|MLA Style]] mandates the use of underlining. This is somewhat problematic, since current XHTML/CSS standards advise the use of or over or and sometimes browsers interpret em and strong differently (though we should theoretically be able to over-ride this by specifically styling them in our style sheet). I'd rather, I think, just do without the italics (or any other special styling), if for no other reason than it's easier. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 03:33, 15 June 2006 (CDT)

== Quotes ==

Since we been doing this alot, the "Action" before a quote... should it be in...

<pre>
<nowiki>
''[ Action ]'' 
Line 1
Line 2
-- [[33]]
</nowiki></pre>

--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:42, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

:It seems neater without the brackets. Is the brackets a standard we follow? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:25, 20 June 2006 (CDT)
::I seen it two different ways. I think the Brackts have it "stand out" if it was an action before any text and () actions that are in a line of a quote, should be done that way. "(Sarcastic) shane's a geek" -- shane --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:29, 20 June 2006 (CDT)
::I don't think there IS a standard yet (which is what Shane was pointing out). So let's figure out how it should be done, and apply that. The transcripts from sadgeezer use italics, but we do use an awful lot of italics already in our quotes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:34, 20 June 2006 (CDT)
:::Just thought that there may be a pre-existing standard on the brackets. Is italics used for more than the episode name? I glad that we I having this discussion. I have been working on quotes and trying to guess how to do things ( not in the existing standards) by looking at the existing quotes. Also, after thinking about Shane's () in the quote, the [] makes sense. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:09, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

:::: Has anyone ever worked with play scripts and/or screen plays? I bet there's a standard there we might be able to jack. If we don't like it, maybe the AP has a standard for out-of-flow quotes (or maybe not) and we could steal/adapt that. I'll go looking for the AP rules, if someone else happens to know about scripts, that would be awesome. Then, we'll at least know what other, "official" things are doing. If we don't want to do what they're doing, we don't have to. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:23, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

::::: Okay. Apparenly the AP guideline is to avoid this style of quoting. So... I looked at a screenplay, and it is ugly... or, as you might say, frugly (or however we'd alter that so the F is for Frak). So, I was thinking that, in the case where the "action" is actually contextual information, rather than real movement or verbs, it could be placed in the attribution. You'll see this a lot with single-speaker quotes in dropquotes in, say, Newsweek. Example:

::::::: "Blah blah blah." 
::::::: --Administrator [[User:Day|Day]], regarding all this quotes formatting discussion (''[[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game|This is Not an Episode]]'')

::::: For multi-person quotes, this would look like this:

::::::: '''Captain [[Lee Adama]]''': Nobody's expecting a miracle. 
::::::: '''Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]''': Maybe that's the problem. 
::::::: --Regarding the construction of the [[Blackbird]], ''Laura'' (''[[Flight of the Phoenix]]'')

::::: What do you guys think about that? That still leaves up in the air things where the action really is action, but mayeb we should be including different quotes than those, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 01:15, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::: Never thought of that.... maybe three different styles... the orginal way, my action way, and the day way (group "think" process). --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:46, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

== Adjustment to Links to Episodes ==

The current policy appears to be missing a significant item. I recommend adjustment to the policy as follows:

:When referring to episodes in text, use quote marks. This helps keep them distinct from other text. This is especially useful for unwieldly episode name such as "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]".
:*Example: "In the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", ''Galactica'' finds ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''."

:When using an episode to cite a source, use parenthesis, but do not place quotes around the episode name. Citations go inside the sentence's punctuation.
:*Example: "''Galactica'' finds ''Pegasus'' ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])."

:When referencing successive episodes within parentheses, place each episode name within quotes, separating them by commas placed within the quotes. (Do not place quotes around the name of Miniseries, as this is a designation and not an actual episode name.)

:*Example: Lee Adama is moody often ([[Miniseries]], "[[33]]," "[[Water]]," "[[The Hand of God]]").

This convention is widely used throughout most articles and greatly aids in identifying episode names within a lengthy citation. If it seems contrary in that we add quotes to successive episodes within parentheses but not in a single episode citation, a consistent convention may be to place quotes around ALL episode citations, parentheticals or not. I dinged Shane on this, not realizing we still hadn't properly defined this in policy. In any case, quotes are important when we have titles that are identical to other objects: Pegasus is a prime example, as is Resurrection Ship. Comment? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:01, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

:if these are source, which in which () is being used for, and since only things in quotes should be something in text, it would be bad to do this within the () inline ref symbols. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:13, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
:Plus just adding "" makes it confusing. If it is going to happen, it should be around all of them, but I think it is an unnessary format. It will also look bad in the middle of text. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:23, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
:I have no problem in adding this convention in, as we already use it anyway. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:49, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
::where? I don't see any article like this. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:52, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

:::I agree. We've been using this convention in an unofficial fashion for a long time. We should make it official--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:33, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

:::: You know? I thought this ''was'' a convention. I think Merv and Peter (primarily) hashed this idea out on some talk page way ago. It may have been CA and Spence. This is how well I recall the event. Anyway, I think the above, just as it's written, would be awesome. Does anyone think we should note that the Miniseries doesn't get quotes because it's not a title (not because it's the first in the list), or shall we trust people to glean that? I'm generally a fan of being explicit, personally. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:44, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::OK, then. Since time and practice has created this standard ''de facto'' and a consensus appears reached, I will add/amend the proposed text I wrote earlier as policy. No quotes in single-episode references, but do so in multi-episode parentheticals. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:06, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

==Revising the Episode Guide re Analysis sections==

Some of our Analysis sections in the episode guides some more like reviews...and several from season one sound...''deeply'' POV. There's this user that hasn't been around for a year called ernestborg9 who just wrote his own mini-reviews of each episode. Case in point "[[Colonial Day]]", he starts off by saying "This is the most poorly-conceived and executed episode in BSG's first season.". Not only is this POV....it's blatantly wrong. I mean it's POV for me to say it, but there *is* room to critique episodes for their faults, but this was I think consensus will agree one of the better scripts: I mean even Ron Moore in the podcasts thinks that like Bastille Day was the worst because it was the early season and they were still finding their footing for a few episodes. And "comparatively worst" doesn't equal "actually bad". Yes, we could say "Black Market was not well put together", but that's more of a report on consensus, and either way we phrased it more gingerly----->My point in all of this is, '''a lot of the Analysis sections sound more like reviews''' especially ones from season one, which I tended to not try to fix up before as they were "done" already, but now that I sit through and read them again, I can't believe we've kept these up as long as we have. What is a "good" Analysis, if "Colonial Day" has a bad one? Well I think by [[Pegasus (episode)]] we'd worked out what can and cannot be in an Analysis section...I remember MORE stuff in there that we cut out (stuff going off on that Cain is the only visible woman on the ship and has some dominatrix like jungle queen hold on her crew...read the history page, this was actually in there at one point) but we edited it down. ----->'''Yes, we do "play it loose" with the Analysis section and should on the whole continue to do so, on a consensus-led case by case basis'''. Analysis *is* the section for making theories...though theories grounded in *evidence*, that is, no wild speculation, but from something in the episode. It should still be a "we play it loose" section of the articles, but they shouldn't sound like POV mini-reviews. We can't say "this episode was bad", though we CAN say "this episode was poorly edited together, major plot points were confusing or poorly presented" (i.e. Black Market) or even for Epiphanies "the Roslin cancer cure was very abrupt and a little quick". Such things are fine. Major thing is that it's supposed to be a "bullleted list" like you see above, not a long three paragraph review of sorts (unless, say, one bulleted point actually runs on that long, which they can, but what I specifically mean is that if you look at Colonial Day and ones like it, it's just a "prose" review, rather than bulleted point by point analysis. --------------------------------->We should retain a "Bloopers" section, such as on "[[Scattered]]", only if needed (there normally aren't a lot of mistakes, but occassionally it can be put in). However, we should remove the "Nitpicks" section from all articles and just merge it into "Analysis".

A lot of the early episode guides on BattlestarWiki, not to mention for the Miniseries, don't fit the standard format that we kind of worked out by the second season.

I would like to try to revise all of these, however I don't want it to be *my own* POV, so I'd like to work on this with everyone to bring these sections back into standardization. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:33, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

== Category's - A, B, and C ==

While I been working on my articles on Wikipieda, I found out alot of the article's category's are in A, B, C order. Templates don't seem to matter, but user created templates are in A, B, and C order and I think we should adopt this here. Templates like {{tl|featured article}}, {{tl|featured picture}}, and {{tl|quality article}} should be placed below user created categories so they are dead last. Anyway.. that's about it. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 04:08, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:What does that mean?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:28, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:I'm curious, too, Shane. Note that this idea appears to a system-wide configuration, not a policy consideration. It may be more appropriate to suggest this on the Think Tank first. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
::Maybe he is talking about the order in which category tags (and "tag" templates) are added to individual articles? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:59, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
::Not really since the cat's are already there. For example... on the [[Kara Thrace]] page... you have these categories here:
<pre>
[[Category:A to Z|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:Characters|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:RDM|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Thrace, Kara]]
</pre>

would change to do:

<pre>
[[Category:A to Z|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:Characters|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:RDM|Thrace, Kara]]
</pre>

:No really impact other than it's in alphicaltiial order from: 0-9 to A-Z by first character. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:02, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::Although the current situation doesn't bother me, I have no objection to Shane's suggestion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:43, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
::Also helps with the "programs" that read webpages for the deaf. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:46, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Man. If you'd've used the phrase "alphabetical order" rather than "A, B and C" I'd have understood from the get-go. Anyway, now I get it, I see no reason not to have this as a convention. Tangentally, Shane: Why "programs"? Are they not simply programs? Are you implying that they are somehow less of a program than any other utility for some reason? I'm baffled. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 17:01, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/CSS Layout

2006-07-11T21:56:29Z

Day:

I don't understand; what is this and where can I see an example? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:09, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:The most basic define is: '''Cascading Style Sheets. Language used to describe how an HTML document should be formatted'''. So all you would have to do is:
<pre>
{| class="infobox"
|-
| This is an info box...
|}
</pre>
and the "CSS File" has an "infobox" define with different style parameters. So you don't have to know CSS, all you have to do is the "class". Also the CSS "package" includes a design update of some of the elemsnts of the "layout". Like the Left navagation area, default colors, etc, etc. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:17, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::Well okay, but what I see on the Hangar Bay thing doesn't look like a massive redesign: am I looking at the right thing?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:43, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Look at the footer, the left navagation (the icons will not show because it's not on the main "root" yet. The Yellow links where "My Talk" is. The Yellow Tabs. The Editing and New Article Creation look different. The Prefences look different. Red no longer exists, unless it's a non created page. Stuff like that. There are very few artiles that have been created, but there are no images on that wiki.

*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/33
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Miniseries
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Anastasia_Dualla
*http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Special:Recentchanges

Alot of the changes you can not see unless you create a dummy account on the Hangerbay. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:53, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I have two major problems here.
#I'm personally quite fond of monobook, and I don't care for the redesign featured at the hangar bay; and although an intense design critique could improve it, I don't think it's worth our energy. The leads to my second point:
#Monobook, and other projects which we inherit from the MediaWiki project, are worked on and approved by large groups with more design sense, creativity, and enthusiasm than we can ever hope to muster on our small corner of the internet. To think otherwise strikes me as hubris. This is one of those situations where I vastly prefer deferring to other experts rather than trying to do something ourselves.
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

:I agree. I like what we already have, and it would be a lot of energy for a comparatively minor change. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:59, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
::Forget to mention... there is a second skin that is int he Monobook colors with the same design. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:06, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

I think that the reason this proposal looks weak, is because Shane is not displaying the power of CSS. Switching to CSS is an investment in the future. It would make lay-out design changes MUCH easier after adopting it. If all info-boxes look as they do because they're labeled "infobox" in the HTML (as generated by MediaWiki), then should we want to change how they look, we can change it in one place and they all get updated. So, that's, maybe, not so spiffy. Here's the catch; to me, the selling point. We also have an "infobox" description in the monobook css file that tells infoboxes how to look. A user picks which CSS file they want to use in preferences (this is, actually, already how the different "skins" work, it's just a matter of personalizing the CSS files referenced in prefs).

I don't agree with Peter (GASP!) that we should let the experts handle this one. Our needs are different from those of Wikipedia at times and so it would behoove us to decide for ourselves on some things. I, personally, think this is one of those things. There are a lot of common lay-out elements we user over and over that could be standardized and centralized into the CSS files.

''Also'', it is my understanding that the CSS files are editable via the Wiki interface. I'll have to do some more research, but I think, if we know the name of the file, we can edit a page of that same name and that information gets appended to the page (so there'd be one page like this for each skin). I may be misunderstanding this, however.

What would make me feel better about this proposal is:
* No change in aesthetics being tied to moving to CSS. That's a separate argument.
* Equal treatment of CSS for other skins (I.e. we should personalize ''all'' the css files).
* More research into whether or not the css files can be edited via wiki interface. This is, I think, very important.

Also, Shane, would you provide a link here (for quick reference) to the css file you're working with so that those of us that can read css can scan through it? Thanks. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:58, 11 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'll dig up the link. -- [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:33, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:The use of CSS isn't at issue - MediaWiki already produces very clean markup which can be styled practically at will. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:37, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

:: Yes, Peter, but most of our styling is done in-line, which doesn't lend itsself to standardization. For instance, all the places where color is specified in-line need to be given classes and those classes added to each .css we have. Maybe I'm entirely misunderstanding Shane's proposal and I need to make my own to this purpose. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 16:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::This is the "CSS" file being used right now on the Hangerbay: http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/skins/bsgbook/main.css Now all the elements Above the line:
<pre>
/**
* Custom Elements for Battlestar Wiki "Design"; These do not appear with MediaWiki Default
**/
</pre>
are the MediaWiki "tags" with the BSG Colors. Everything below are customs tags to "objects" and styles we have created from the "main page" redesign and other misc. custom elements already created on this wiki. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:42, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

::: Thanks for the link, Shane. I'll look over it when I get the time. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 16:56, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Episode Standardization

2006-07-11T20:06:51Z

Day: /* Massive Edit */