Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Blood on the Scales

2009-02-07T23:19:20Z

David Templar: /* Questions */ Cylon trust of Roslin

{{Episode Data
| image=
| title= Blood on the Scales
| season= 4
| episode=14
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]] <ref name="battlestarsitrep">{{cite_web|url=http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/2008/05/angeli-also-rises.html|title=Angeli Also Rises|}}</ref>
| story=
| director=
| production=416
| rating=
| US airdate=February 6, 2009 <ref>http://tv.ign.com/articles/920/920164p1.html</ref>
| CAN airdate=Early 2009
| UK airdate=Early 2009
| dvd=
| population=39603
| oldpopulation= 39643
| prev=[[The Oath]]
| next=[[No Exit]]
| forumthread= 2552
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Felix Gaeta]]'s mutiny continues while Roslin finds refuge on the Cylon Basestar.''

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
*The [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]] were murdered on Zarek's order for supporting President Roslin. [[Lee Adama]] survived as he wasn't present during the Quorum session. Two other regular Quorum members (Gemenon Delegate and one other delegate) were replaced by temporary stand-ins (who were killed), and their fate is unknown.
*This episode marks the death of Felix Gaeta and Tom Zarek who are executed by firing squad for their mutiny against Adama and the government.
*The character Lt. Kelly was last seen during season 3 when he was arrested for his bombing and assassinations of Baltar's lawyers. His character has appear once every season since the show began and is fitting that he would be the double-turn coat as he was part of the original senior staff and his love for Admiral Adama is proven to be stronger than his hatred of the Cylons.

== Analysis ==
*Despite all of the support that Gaeta and Zarek seemed to have at the beginning of the mutiny, Roslin and Adama had more support from people opposed to it and possibly people who rethought it like Lieutenant Kelly. On Roslin and Adama's side were ''Galactica's'' senior staff (the members of CIC were either people on Gaeta's side or forced to work at gunpoint by marines), at least most of the crew given how many people joined Adama's march to CIC, the Quorum of Twelve and the Cylons and Baltar's followers. Gaeta and Zarek had the supporters they'd managed to gather amongst ''Galactica's'' crew and about 25 ships who refused Roslin's order to stand down FTL drives. In the end Adama and Roslin were successful because the people supported them more and Adama had enough respect from his crew that he was able to turn a lot back to his side just by stating his intention to retake the ship and walking by others. Gaeta and Zarek had to use force to get what they wanted while Adama and his men used very little force and ultimately retook the ship without firing a shot once they stormed the CIC. Gaeta's takeover had many people killed (given the survivor count, over 40) while the people on Adama's side killed very few.
*Gaeta's sudden lack of pain in his amputated leg signals that his chronic pain (which he tried to numb with painkillers during the webisodes) was partially psychological. Once he was at peace with who he was and what he had done, the physical pain, and his mental pain disappeared.
*The marines who eventually joined Adama's side near the end of the episode indicates that other mutineers simply were part of the coup out of self-preservation or at least wanting to be on the "winning" side. Once it was clear that Adama and the senior staff were rising up and reclaiming the ship, the marines, and others finally arose as well.
*By sparing Narcho's life, Admiral Adama characteristically shows his love and compassion for those who serve under him. Despite his speech of "no forgiveness" in "[[The Oath]]", it is clear that Adama will attempt to give the mutineers a second chance if it is reasonable.
*Lt. Kelly, after having been locked up in the brig for his attempts to assassinate Baltar's lawyers, still holds a deep love for the Galactica and her commander. As he was a part of the original senior leadership (3rd in command as shown after Adama's near-assassination), his nostalgic comments with Tyrol indicated his withering resolve to be part of the coup. In addition, being a witness to the cruelty of Zarek with the Quorum was probably the first catalyst for his repentance.
*Gaeta, prior to his execution, is shown smoking and having drinks with Baltar. This is significant as Gaeta is rarely shown smoking during the show, and when it is shown, it was done when Gaeta finally felt free to be who he wanted to be. The first time was during his taped interview with D'anna where he "let his hair down" so to speak. Incorporating a final smoke for Gaeta seemed appropriate to allow the audience to see a humanized Gaeta again.
*The ''Galactica'' may be suffering from serious long term metal fatigue and/or cumulative battle damage, as evidenced by the bulkhead deformation Tyrol discovers in the FTL drive room. Over the course of the series, Tigh has made a number of comments on ''Galactica's'' worsening structural condition, especially in absence of any possibility for repair at a shipyard.
*Gaeta and Baltar have a civil conversation before Gaeta's execution indicating that the two have forgiven each other for thier past transgressions, ie Gaeta trying to kill Baltar and Baltar's involvment with the Cylons on New Caprica.
*Baltar, despite admiting to not really liking his followers, has developed a sense of responsibility towards them as shown when he's speaking with the Six about them and deciding to go back. This is the first time that Baltar has been shown to truly care about something besides himself indicating he may have changed somewhat.

== Questions ==

* What will become of the other mutineers (Racetrack, Narcho, Seelix, etc)?
* Will Kelly be allowed to resume his duties on Galactica?
* Who will replace Zarek as Vice President?
* Who will take over Gaeta's duties?
* What repercussions will the Quorum's assassination have on the Fleet?
* What is the significance of the damage Tyrol discovers in the engine room? How long has it been there? Do other areas of the ship show similar signs of damage?
* Will Anders survive his injuries?
* Will the rebel Cylons become less trusting of the humans as a result of this mutiny? Or will the they be more inclined to trust certain humans, such as Roslin, since she managed to convince them to stay and follow her leadership?
* Did Baltar really understand who Gaeta was as he claimed he did?
* What was that device Roslin and Leoben were using to communicate with the rest of the Fleet?
* Why was Lee Adama - as opposed to Roslin - present at Zarek and Gaeta's execution?
* What will be done to the 25 ships who did not obey Roslin's order to power down their FTL drives?
* Will the FTL upgrades proceed once order has been brought back completely?
* Will there be a faction that will attempt to portray Zarek or Gaeta as martyrs?
* Will Adama follow through with his promise of "no forgiveness" towards the mutineers?
* Will Romo Lampkin's reputation change due to his role in Adama's "trial".

== Official Statements ==
*[http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-gaeta-blood-scales-angeli.html A Chicago Tribune interview with Michael Angeli about the episode:]
* The Six that sleeps with Baltar on the baseship is named [[Lida]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]
* [[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
* [[Sebastian Spence]] as Lieutenant [[Noel Allison|Noel "Narcho" Allison]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[Jennifer Halley]] as Ensign [[Diana Seelix|Diana "Hardball" Seelix]]
* [[Ty Olsson]] as Lieutenant [[Aaron Kelly]]
* [[Derek Delost]] as Specialist [[Vireem]]
* [[Mike Dopud]] as Specialist [[Gage]]
* [[Colin Corrigan]] as Sergeant [[Allan Nowart]]
* [[Alexandra Thomas]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]] / [[Leoben Conoy]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Andrew McIlroy]] as [[Jacob Cantrell]]
* [[Marilyn Norry]] as [[Reza Chronides]]
* [[Judith Maxie]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Picon Delegate|Picon Delegate]]
* [[Iris Paluly]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Tauron Delegate|Tauron Delegate]] (credited as "Speaking Delegate #2)
* [[Veena Sood]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Quorum Delegate|Quorum Delegate]]
* Unknown as "[[Unnamed_Galactica_and_Pegasus_crew_%28RDM%29#Pen-stabbed Marine|Pen-stabbed Marine]]"

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Blood on the Scales

2009-02-07T23:14:35Z

David Templar: /* Analysis */ Galactica structure damage

{{Episode Data
| image=
| title= Blood on the Scales
| season= 4
| episode=14
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]] <ref name="battlestarsitrep">{{cite_web|url=http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/2008/05/angeli-also-rises.html|title=Angeli Also Rises|}}</ref>
| story=
| director=
| production=416
| rating=
| US airdate=February 6, 2009 <ref>http://tv.ign.com/articles/920/920164p1.html</ref>
| CAN airdate=Early 2009
| UK airdate=Early 2009
| dvd=
| population=39603
| oldpopulation= 39643
| prev=[[The Oath]]
| next=[[No Exit]]
| forumthread= 2552
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Felix Gaeta]]'s mutiny continues while Roslin finds refuge on the Cylon Basestar.''

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
*The [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]] were murdered on Zarek's order for supporting President Roslin. [[Lee Adama]] survived as he wasn't present during the Quorum session. Two other regular Quorum members (Gemenon Delegate and one other delegate) were replaced by temporary stand-ins (who were killed), and their fate is unknown.
*This episode marks the death of Felix Gaeta and Tom Zarek who are executed by firing squad for their mutiny against Adama and the government.
*The character Lt. Kelly was last seen during season 3 when he was arrested for his bombing and assassinations of Baltar's lawyers. His character has appear once every season since the show began and is fitting that he would be the double-turn coat as he was part of the original senior staff and his love for Admiral Adama is proven to be stronger than his hatred of the Cylons.

== Analysis ==
*Despite all of the support that Gaeta and Zarek seemed to have at the beginning of the mutiny, Roslin and Adama had more support from people opposed to it and possibly people who rethought it like Lieutenant Kelly. On Roslin and Adama's side were ''Galactica's'' senior staff (the members of CIC were either people on Gaeta's side or forced to work at gunpoint by marines), at least most of the crew given how many people joined Adama's march to CIC, the Quorum of Twelve and the Cylons and Baltar's followers. Gaeta and Zarek had the supporters they'd managed to gather amongst ''Galactica's'' crew and about 25 ships who refused Roslin's order to stand down FTL drives. In the end Adama and Roslin were successful because the people supported them more and Adama had enough respect from his crew that he was able to turn a lot back to his side just by stating his intention to retake the ship and walking by others. Gaeta and Zarek had to use force to get what they wanted while Adama and his men used very little force and ultimately retook the ship without firing a shot once they stormed the CIC. Gaeta's takeover had many people killed (given the survivor count, over 40) while the people on Adama's side killed very few.
*Gaeta's sudden lack of pain in his amputated leg signals that his chronic pain (which he tried to numb with painkillers during the webisodes) was partially psychological. Once he was at peace with who he was and what he had done, the physical pain, and his mental pain disappeared.
*The marines who eventually joined Adama's side near the end of the episode indicates that other mutineers simply were part of the coup out of self-preservation or at least wanting to be on the "winning" side. Once it was clear that Adama and the senior staff were rising up and reclaiming the ship, the marines, and others finally arose as well.
*By sparing Narcho's life, Admiral Adama characteristically shows his love and compassion for those who serve under him. Despite his speech of "no forgiveness" in "[[The Oath]]", it is clear that Adama will attempt to give the mutineers a second chance if it is reasonable.
*Lt. Kelly, after having been locked up in the brig for his attempts to assassinate Baltar's lawyers, still holds a deep love for the Galactica and her commander. As he was a part of the original senior leadership (3rd in command as shown after Adama's near-assassination), his nostalgic comments with Tyrol indicated his withering resolve to be part of the coup. In addition, being a witness to the cruelty of Zarek with the Quorum was probably the first catalyst for his repentance.
*Gaeta, prior to his execution, is shown smoking and having drinks with Baltar. This is significant as Gaeta is rarely shown smoking during the show, and when it is shown, it was done when Gaeta finally felt free to be who he wanted to be. The first time was during his taped interview with D'anna where he "let his hair down" so to speak. Incorporating a final smoke for Gaeta seemed appropriate to allow the audience to see a humanized Gaeta again.
*The ''Galactica'' may be suffering from serious long term metal fatigue and/or cumulative battle damage, as evidenced by the bulkhead deformation Tyrol discovers in the FTL drive room. Over the course of the series, Tigh has made a number of comments on ''Galactica's'' worsening structural condition, especially in absence of any possibility for repair at a shipyard.
*Gaeta and Baltar have a civil conversation before Gaeta's execution indicating that the two have forgiven each other for thier past transgressions, ie Gaeta trying to kill Baltar and Baltar's involvment with the Cylons on New Caprica.
*Baltar, despite admiting to not really liking his followers, has developed a sense of responsibility towards them as shown when he's speaking with the Six about them and deciding to go back. This is the first time that Baltar has been shown to truly care about something besides himself indicating he may have changed somewhat.

== Questions ==

* What will become of the other mutineers (Racetrack, Narcho, Seelix, etc)?
* Will Kelly be allowed to resume his duties on Galactica?
* Who will replace Zarek as Vice President?
* Who will take over Gaeta's duties?
* What repercussions will the Quorum's assassination have on the Fleet?
* What is the significance of the damage Tyrol discovers in the engine room? How long has it been there? Do other areas of the ship show similar signs of damage?
* Will Anders survive his injuries?
* Will the rebel Cylons become less trusting of the humans as a result of this mutiny?
* Did Baltar really understand who Gaeta was as he claimed he did?
* What was that device Roslin and Leoben were using to communicate with the rest of the Fleet?
* Why was Lee Adama - as opposed to Roslin - present at Zarek and Gaeta's execution?
* What will be done to the 25 ships who did not obey Roslin's order to power down their FTL drives?
* Will the FTL upgrades proceed once order has been brought back completely?
* Will there be a faction that will attempt to portray Zarek or Gaeta as martyrs?
* Will Adama follow through with his promise of "no forgiveness" towards the mutineers?
* Will Romo Lampkin's reputation change due to his role in Adama's "trial".

== Official Statements ==
*[http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-gaeta-blood-scales-angeli.html A Chicago Tribune interview with Michael Angeli about the episode:]
* The Six that sleeps with Baltar on the baseship is named [[Lida]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]
* [[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
* [[Sebastian Spence]] as Lieutenant [[Noel Allison|Noel "Narcho" Allison]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[Jennifer Halley]] as Ensign [[Diana Seelix|Diana "Hardball" Seelix]]
* [[Ty Olsson]] as Lieutenant [[Aaron Kelly]]
* [[Derek Delost]] as Specialist [[Vireem]]
* [[Mike Dopud]] as Specialist [[Gage]]
* [[Colin Corrigan]] as Sergeant [[Allan Nowart]]
* [[Alexandra Thomas]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]] / [[Leoben Conoy]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Andrew McIlroy]] as [[Jacob Cantrell]]
* [[Marilyn Norry]] as [[Reza Chronides]]
* [[Judith Maxie]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Picon Delegate|Picon Delegate]]
* [[Iris Paluly]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Tauron Delegate|Tauron Delegate]] (credited as "Speaking Delegate #2)
* [[Veena Sood]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Quorum Delegate|Quorum Delegate]]
* Unknown as "[[Unnamed_Galactica_and_Pegasus_crew_%28RDM%29#Pen-stabbed Marine|Pen-stabbed Marine]]"

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar

2007-12-13T17:51:07Z

David Templar: Fixed typo

A '''battlestar''' is a [[Colonial]] capital warship that combines the roles of a space fighter carrier and battleship. Battlestars are the adversarial counterpart to the [[Cylon]] [[basestar]].

[[Image:TOS-galac.jpg|Battlestar ''Galactica'' from the Original Series|left|200 px]]
[[Image:Bsg-bsg-1.jpg|Battlestar ''Galactica'' from the Re-imagined Series|right|150 px]]
Battlestars have differing appearances and abilities in both the the [[Original Series]] (left) and [[Re-imagined Series]] (right).
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

For information on the battlestar ''Galactica'' itself:

*See [[Galactica (RDM)]] for information on the Re-imagined Series version
*See [[Galactica (TOS)]] for information on the Original Series and [[Galactica 1980]] version
*See [[Galactica (2003 Video Game)]] for information on the Original Series variant seen in the [[2003 Video Game]]

Other Original Series battlestars:

*''[[Acropolis]]''
*''[[Atlantia (TOS)|Atlantia]]''
*''[[Columbia (TOS)|Columbia]]''
*''[[Pacifica]]''
*''[[Pegasus (TOS)|Pegasus]]''
*''[[Rycon]]''
*''[[Triton (TOS)|Triton]]''

Other Re-imagined Series battlestars:

*Named:
**''[[Athena (Battlestar)|Athena]]''
**''[[Atlantia (RDM)|Atlantia]]''
**''[[Columbia (RDM)|Columbia]]''
**''[[Erasmus]]''
**''[[Mercury]]''
**''[[Night Flight]]''
**''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''
**''[[Solaria]]''
**''[[Triton (RDM)|Triton]]''
**''[[Valkyrie]]''
*Unnamed:
**Several [[Galactica type battlestar#Known Galactica type battlestars|unnamed ''Galactica'' type battlestars]] ([[Miniseries]], "[[Razor]]")
**Two unnamed ''Valkyrie'' type battlestars destroyed during the attack on the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] (Razor)

For general information on specific battlestar classes:

*See [[Battlestar (TOS)]] for statistics on the unnamed Original Series battlestar class
*See [[Galactica type battlestar]] for statistics on this unnamed original battlestar class of the Re-imagined Series
*See [[Mercury class battlestar]] for statistics on the advanced battlestar class that succeeds the [[Galactica type battlestar]]

==Notes==
*Battlestar Wiki maintains official information on the ''Battlestar Galactica'' officially-licensed episodes, movies, and publications only. [[Fan fiction]] sources that discuss other ships (particularly fan-based clubs that use ship "names") are not permitted in this wiki.

*A common [[fan fiction]] belief is that the Original Series battlestar ''[[Columbia (TOS)|Columbia]]'' was also the class name for these battlestars. No [[BW:CJ|official sources]] confirm this point.

:''For more on what constitutes an official source, see [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad]].''

{{disambig}}

[[de:Battlestar]]

Fall of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards

2007-11-19T16:50:37Z

David Templar: Contrary statement/action by Cain on Scorpion

{{spoiler}}

{{Battle Data
|image=Battletemplatefix.jpg
|description=Fall of the Scorpian Ship Yards
|conflict=[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon war]]
|date=[[Re-Imagined Series Timeline|Zero Hour]], concurrent with [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]
|place=[[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]]
|result=Decisive Cylon victory
|combatant1=[[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]]
|combatant2=[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]
|co1=Admiral [[Helena Cain]]
|co2=[[Basestar command]]
|strength1=At least 4 [[Battlestar (RDM)|battlestars]] (including ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'') and 3 support vessels <ref name="numbers">
*In "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", Cain says "Five ships, two of them battlestars, they were destroyed right there."
*In "[[Razor]]" two battlestars can be clearly seen in the establishing shot of the shipyard, and two ships that appear to be of ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' design are destroyed later. This makes at least four, which makes it likely that Cain's comment refers not to the total number of ships present, but the ones destroyed in the opening salvos of the battle.
*It is unknown if the large vessel above ''Pegasus'' is a designated as a battlestar by the Colonial Fleet.
</ref>
|strength2=Unknown number of [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] and associated [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]]
|shiploss1=
Shipyards, as well as:
*At least 3 battlestars and 3 other military vessels <ref name="numbers"/>
*12 Vipers and 2 Raptors from ''Pegasus's'' air wing. 12 further craft beyond repair.
|shiploss2=Unknown, minimal
|casualties1=At least 723 crewmen lost on ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', plus those lost on other ships. 
|casualties2=Unknown, minimal
|prev=[[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]
|next=[[Battle of the Communications Relay]]
|rdm=y
}}

Sometime during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] the Cylons attack the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]]. They launch several nuclear weapons and utilize numerous [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]] squadrons in the attack. Five [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] ships, including two [[Battlestar (RDM)|battlestars]], are destroyed at the onset of the struggle.

''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' is dry docked at the shipyards when the attack occurs, having been scheduled to undergo a three month systems overhaul. With all of its computer networks taken off-line in preparation for the refit, the battlestar is largely unaffected by Cylon infiltration of the [[Command Navigation Program]]; only the defense grid and navigational computer are compromised.

''Pegasus'' is struck by multiple Cylon batteries during the attack. The damage is severe enough to initiate an explosion of fuel and ordnance on the hangar decks, causing over 700 casualties.

With no defensive options, and destruction imminent, Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]] orders the [[CIC]] crew to activate the [[FTL]] system and engage in a [[blind jump]]: "Wherever. Anywhere. Just jump", Cain recalls to Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin]] in a conversation shortly after ''Galactica'' encounters her battlestar months later. The blind jump is successful in that ''Pegasus'' escapes both the Cylon attack and the chance of collision with a celestial body. Additionally, ''Pegasus'''s escape is aided by an [[EMP|electro-magnetic pulse]] that blinds the Cylon [[DRADIS]] and makes them oblivious to the battlestar's survival.

According to ("[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]") Cain attempted to retrieves as many civilian and military staff from the shipyard as possible. However, in ("[[Razor]]"), Cain was away from [[CIC]] when the ''Pegasus'' was first struck and her first order when she returned was to get the ship underway.

== Notes ==
*The electro-magnetic pulse mentioned in the article is not a true EMP. See the [[EMP]] article for further details.
*One of the destroyed battlestars is of [[Galactica type battlestar|''Galactica's'' type]]. Two others appear to be of the same or a similar design as ''[[Valkyrie]]''.

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

<div style="clear:both;"></div>
{{Battles (RDM)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Fall der Scorpianischen Flotten-Schiffswerften]]

Operation Raptor Talon

2007-11-11T03:01:38Z

David Templar: Swapped the order of two paragraphs for chronological reason

{{spoiler}}

{{Battle Data
|image=Operation Raptor Talon.jpg
|description=
|conflict=[[Cylon War|First Cylon War]]
|date=[[Timeline (RDM)|4,571 days]] into the [[Cylon War]], approximately 40 years prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]
|place=An unnamed "[[ice planet]] in the ass end of nowhere"
|result={{spoilli|Default Colonial victory, armistice signed}}
|combatant1=[[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]
|combatant2=[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]
|co1=''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' commanding officer, ''[[Columbia (RDM)|Columbia]]'' commanding officer
|co2=Unknown
|strength1=3 [[battlestar (RDM)|battlestars]], numerous [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]s, and [[Raptor]]s
|strength2=3 [[Raider (RDM)|Raider]] wings, ground forces, at least 2 [[basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s
|shiploss1= ''Columbia''
|shiploss2= Various Cylon Raiders
|casualties1= All ''Columbia'' crew (presumed)
|casualties2=
|prev=First [[Cylon War]]
|next=[[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]
|rdm=y
}}

'''Operation Raptor Talon''' was a [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|military]] operation that took place on the 4,571th day of the [[Cylon War|First Cylon War]]. The [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestars]] ''Galactica'' and ''Columbia'' were among the Colonial vessels taking part in the mission.

The objective was to attack an [[ice planet|unnamed "ice planet"]], that was rumored to house a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] superweapon. According to intelligence on hand, the Cylons had three [[Raider (RDM)|Raider]] wings, ground forces, defensive batteries and nuclear weapons ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 1). Additionally, the Cylons had at least two [[basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s defending the planet from orbit ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 3).

[[Raptor]]s from [[Raptor Squadron 2]] were the first Colonial vessels to be launched in the operation, but were ambushed by Cylon forces soon after. Among the casualties of this skirmish was [[Jaycie McGavin]], who was severely injured when a console exploded on board her Raptor ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 2).

During an orbital engagement with the enemy, ''[[Columbia (RDM)|Columbia]]'' was destroyed by missile salvos from a pair of basestars, presumably killing everyone on board ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 3).

Shortly after ''[[Columbia (RDM)|Columbia]]'' was destroyed, [[William Adama]] pursued two Raiders into the atmosphere of the ice planet. He managed to destroy one but suffered a collision with the other, sending him plummeting toward the planet's surface.

On the planet below, Adama discovers a facility where humans are imprisoned ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 4 & 5).

{{spoiltext|After speaking to a survivor on the planet, he discovers that the Cylons were experimenting on humans for reasons then unknown to him, but later revealed by [[Sharon Agathon]] to be part of a failed experiment in Cylons becoming biological. He attempts to free the prisoners, but is forced to leave when the facility begins to shake. Exiting this facility, he discovers that it was a [[Guardian basestar|ship]], which leaves. Adama attempts to get ''Galactica'' to pursue the ship, only to discover that the Cylons had signed an armistice, thus ushering the end of the first Cylon War ([[Razor]]).}}

<div style="clear:both;"></div>
{{Battles (RDM)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Command Navigation Program/Archive 1

2007-11-11T02:57:12Z

David Templar: /* Means of Transmission */ DRADIS?

==How CNP Infiltration Differs from Infection==

My understanding is that, while the CNP is obviously functional and works as designed, the CNP's backdoors was what made it dangerous. Whether the CNP's backdoors allowed activation of a virus, Trojan, or system command access seems consistent now with our viewing the behavior of a Cylon virus on ''Galactica'' in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", although the CNP was never loaded on their computers.

It's reasonable to assume that post-war (modern) Colonial ships were still not easily hackable despite their advancements, so it took the CNP backdoors to make that happen. As far as ''Galactica'' was concerned, it's relatively primitive computers were not as advanced as those used on other Battlestars and were more likely to be directly infected, as done in "[[Scattered]]""--IF they were accessible by [[wireless]]. Obviously the computers were never available for infection until the events of "Scattered".

It's likely that the process of networking ''Galactica's'' computers with hard lines at Gaeta's console (Gaeta mentions in "Scattered" that he would network the FTL computer with the Navigation, Damage Control, and Fire Control computers) also interfaced them to the comm channels of the ship and to ship's wireless by default. Otherwise, Gaeta would not be fearful of simply creating a closed network to make the calculations. Networking any computers on ''Galactica'' would automatically create a wireless portal to them. Interesting Colonial technology in that way; it's like two laptops that automatically form a wireless connection when they want to share data.

So the Raider's programming may be two-fold. Option one: Attempt access to an enemy ship via a CNP backdoor, where it may activate a Trojan Horse program in the CNP or directly command the CNP to stop operation of the ship. Option two: Use First War tactics and attempt to hack and infect a computer that's available by wireless. Just my take on it, but it's consistent with show events. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

:Strictly speaking, [[Wikipedia:Computer virus|Computer virus]]es and [[Wikipedia:Computer worm|worms]] are defined by their ability to ''proliferate''. It would be most proper to state that the CNP (or part of it) was a Cylon-designed [[Wikipedia:Trojan horse (computing)|Trojan horse]].

:The Logic Bomb that infected Galactica's systems was obviously very different - either a remote [[Wikipedia:exploit (computer security)|exploit]] or the work of a Cylon agent onboard ''Galactica'', as I speculated on the "[[Scattered]]" page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:53, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

:: A Trojan Horse is typically a malevalent application disguised as a benevolent one, with no "good" code within. Trojans generally do not activate themselves (as viruses do) or proliferate themselves (as worms do). The CNP was a functional program with backdoors that allowed commands, of which shut down commands, commands to activate a hidden virus or worm inside the CNP code, or copy commands to receive and activate a new virus would work. In "Scattered", ''Galactica'' becomes infected by the Cylon virus transmitted by the attacking fleet using old-school War I tactics--that I'm pretty certain of at this point since we have no other data to support otherwise, and fits ''Galactica's'' technology base. Doesn't mean there wasn't someone on the inside that copied back the virus code on a low-level system into ''Galactica'' after the initial purge in "Scattered." We already know of one or two Cylon infiltrators (Godfrey, Biers), and at least 6 others remain at large. The virus created the Logic Bomb...or the Logic Bomb was implanted by an infiltrator, yes, but we have no way of knowing just yet.[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:25, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

==CNP on Civilian Ships==

In the miniseries, Doral approaches Baltar with a report he requested: "You asked for a report on how many civilian ships had your CNP program?" Seems pretty clear to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:43, 3 January 2006 (EST)

==Still need clarification==

Okay, my thinking was that the CNP backdoors allowed a virus to enter which in turn shut down their systems; I mean when we hear about windows having a flaw, it's "a flaw that a virus could exploit". Of course I'm not a computer expert, but it seems like a virus exploiting the CNP flaws.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:03, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:Well, when you're not inside the castle (like most viruses), your only options are to enter by whatever means are available. But when you have a bad guy who helps '''design and build the castle''', you have the potential not only for intentional design flaws that might be exploited, but also the opportunity to have people inside the castle before the fighting begins. They see the signal flare and they can open the gates (allowing more viruses entry) and/or cause damage of their own. Baltar's Caprica-Six might have inserted hidden commands that shut things down, or that opened up exploits for outsiders to take advantage of, or possibly both. Real-life viruses tend to do the same, opening holes for other viruses even as they are doing damage themselves. Whether or not the hidden programming inside the CNP did the damage itself, or opened up the exploits for the outside viruses to take advantage of, credit for the kill would still likely fall to the CNP programming, for making it all possible. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:14, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::I thought it was like programmed in that would do the same thing. I think Six said, I rewrote half your algorthims. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:34, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Six was referring to Baltar's programming of the CNP itself, of which he wasn't doing a very good job at perfecting. Six made it work, but she also added a bit of extras. If the CNP was a castle, Six added a special magician that, on the Cylon's command, turned its "king" (commander/pilot) into a jester and surrendered the castle instantly. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:43, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:We've had this conclusion several times, so I'm being forced to use bold text here to make sure my point is clear: '''There was. no. virus.''' The CNP included a backdoor which allowed the cylons to dial in and shut down their systems at will. Classic trojan horse. No virus involved. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:19, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::I didn't know that's what a Trojan did. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:31, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Don't worry; I'm sure under some yet newer taxonomy it's, e.g., a "hedgehog" or a "plaguecarrier." At least some of the experts on computer security truly enjoy inventing new terminology; years ago, all would have been called a virus, and implementation idiosyncracies would be left to the specific name. For future reference, one can usually get away with being accurate, if highly broad, by calling the item "malware." --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 22:07, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I think the reason you have that impression was that viruses actually were the most common type of malware back in the floppy disk era. Most e-mail "viruses" are actually worms, distinguished by their ability to replicate on their own, without piggybacking on another executable which they must "infect". The definition of a trojan horse is essentially something installed in good faith with a hidden malevolent purpose. This sort of, but does not quite perfectly include the idea of a "backdoor", which is really the best possible term to describe the CNP. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:37, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::I'm well aware of the distinctions, and I think that the simple fact that boot-sector-overriding programs, including some with beneficial purposes like real-time encryption of disk access, and corruptions of normal user programs use the same term is a clear indication that initially they were made in far less detail. For the most part, jargon exists to identify a community and mystify victi\b\b\b\b\bcustomers. Originally, malware lacked the frequency, variety, or crystalization of attack patterns necessary for the irksome, mostly useless nit-picking of current terminology. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:34, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::Still, I think it behooves us not to misuse that terminology, nit-picking as it may be. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:45, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::: A really good term is ''worm''. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:47, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::::A worm has to be self-propagating. The CNP isn't. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:05, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== What did it actually do? ==

What was the CNP designed to do, excatly? What were the advantages over the previous system? {{unsigned|Spidersense215}} --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:59, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:I'd surmise that it plotted courses (minimally according to some metric like distance or fuel, given a database of the known contents of charted space and their properties) and executed autopilot burns of the engines to follow those courses, watching for obstructions and issuing a warning should one block the course. The word "Command" suggests it might allow remote overrides of destination, etc.; this would likely be the functionality abused by the Cylons. The previous system probably did all but the remoting, since a navigation program is a rather obvious thing to put in a spaceship and the software was likely quite refined by the time of the CNP.
:To be clear, "I'd surmise" means I '''made that up'''. It's a guess, and that's why it's not on the page itself. [[Wikipedia:The Powers That Be (television)|They]]'ve never told us a real answer. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 15:17, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::I don't know, that seems pretty rudimentary for something that required "OMG teh Forbidden AI technologies", if you will. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:02, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:::The plotting of an optimal course in space (relatively) near objects seems to me like a [[Wikipedia:Calculus of variations|variational]] problem desiring a function f(t) giving a vector of the thrusts from each engine at time ''t'' such that C(f) the cost in fuel or time is minimal and the intial position plus the integral of f(t) modified by the forces exerted by the nearby objects over the time used is the destination. This seems related to the [[Wikipedia:N-body problem|''n''-body system]], but I admit my familiarity with the topic is limited. A cursory glance at Google returns gives a [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/scandal/public/papers/dimacs-nbody.html source] stating good approximation of the solution to a ''n''-body problem is possible in O(n) for each time step (with a complicated algorithm by the standards of someone implementing parallel algorithms for solutions to integral equations). This makes the problem seem tough but trivial compared to an AI. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 22:14, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:Frankly, the CNP was a super-avionics package, nothing more. It also appeared to combine many tactical advantages in fleet combat with improved DRADIS, navigation and battle plans (possibly, fighters or battlestars could coordinate their maneuvers better under a single set of commands) and the like. For the older stuff, see the innards of the Viper Mark II (Miniseries) where we see Starbuck fly the first time. Worked fine. Not flashy, but also it couldn't be hacked--then, or "now." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:05, 28 April 2006 (CDT)

== Means of Transmission ==

How would the Cylons actually transmit the signals to override the CNP on the target ship? Would it be received via the ship's wireless system?--[[User:Rapturous|Rapturous]] 00:42, 18 October 2007 (CDT)
:I think so. There's not really another way that we know of. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 05:47, 18 October 2007 (CDT)
::To clarify: The Cylons (via Caprica-Six) helped ''build'' the thing, so naturally they would know how to talk to it, through its normal means, or by a backdoor means unexplained. And they don't appear to override the CNP. They just appear to tell it to shut down everything, including itself. It would be like your computer turning itself off and your power button would not respond to starting it up. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:09, 19 October 2007 (CDT)
:::Since Six had such a major part in writing CNP, it's even possible that the signal to override the CNP can be sent to any system capable of receiving, processing and sharing electromagnetic information with the CNP. For example, if the CNP is getting feed from DRADIS, the Cylons could send a particular signal that would mimic DRADIS return, which would make the DRADIS receivers would automatically pickup. Then the DRADIS computer would go "This seems like random sensor noise to me, but hey CNP, does this mean anything to you?" At which point the CNP goes "Did you just toss that Aparture Science we-don't-know-what-it-does into an Aparture Science Emergency Intellegence Incinerator?! That has got to be the... Whoa.. Whoaa.... Whoaaaaaaaaaa.......". Personally, I think this is more likely than using Colonial wireless as a point of entry, simply because that's too obvious and easily stopped. I can't see why the Colonials would network communications to the ship's other systems, even after firewalling it to hell and back. Meanwhile, no one ever seems to ever turn off the DRADIS in BSG and key systems like fire control and navigation almost certainly talk to it directly. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 20:57, 10 November 2007 (CST)

Maelstrom

2007-04-22T22:52:38Z

David Templar: /* Questions */ Deleted question about whether Apollo saw Raider due to official RDM statement

{{Episode Data
| title= Maelstrom
| image= 3X17-Maelstrom-LeobenStarbuck.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 17
| guests=
| writer= [[David Weddle]] [[Bradley Thompson]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production= 317
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-03-04
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| podcast= y
| population= 41400
| oldpopulation= 41400
| prev= [[Dirty Hands]]
| next= [[The Son Also Rises]]
| itunes=http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D218316472%2526id%253D200852806%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Kara Thrace]]'s past comes back to haunt her when [[William Adama|Adama]] has doubts about her fitness for duty.''

== Summary ==

===Teaser===

*[[Kara Thrace]] is dreaming of her old apartment, trying to paint over the [[Eye of Jupiter|strange mandala]]. The dream is augmented when a [[Leoben Conoy]] comes behind her, and the two embrace and begin to have sex, rolling through the white paint that Thrace attempted to use to cover up the mandala. The mandala "pushes" itself through the white paint to reveal itself.
*[[Hot Dog]] looks over to question what Thrace was dreaming in her bunk.
*Thrace meets [[Helo]] in the head. He notes that [[Hera Agathon]] wakes up from frightening dreams as well. Helo suggests a psychologist, but when Thrace declines, he also suggests an [[oracle]] living in [[Dogsville]]. As Helo speaks, Thrace see in her mirror an image of a little girl standing by the hatchway, who appears bruised and beaten. When Thrace looks again for the child, she has disappeared.
*Thrace enters the oracle's tent and finds a small golden figurine of the angelic [[Aurora, Goddess of the Dawn]].
*The oracle, [[Yolanda Brenn]], appears, and tells Thrace to keep the figurine. She asks Thrace to sit before a pool of water. Brenn holds Thrace's hand and begins a reading.
*Brenn knows of the Cylon [[Leoben]] and the dreams. When she repeats the destiny foretold by Leoben, verbatim, Thrace is angered. The oracle continues to repeat Leoben's words which were originally spoken under interrogation ([[Flesh and Bone]]).
*Thrace wonders how the oracle could know what was said. The oracle tells her that her mother, [[Socrata Thrace]], was trying to tell her something.
*The oracle notes that Leoben is the answer, who can see the answers to Thrace. Thrace angrily leaves the tent.

===Act 1===

*[[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] is orbiting a cloudy gas giant planet as they refuel various ships after the fuel crisis had passed ([[Dirty Hands]])
*[[Samuel Anders]], after the two had a lovemaking session, is asking Thrace to join him for some leave time on another ship.
*He complains that the oracle wasn't helpful, and neither was her mother.
*Thrace notes how the two fought, and the injuries she sustained. Thrace recounts her mothers fear of insects, a holdover from the first Cylon war.
*To get revenge on her mother, Thrace placed rubber ants in her mother's closet, causing her to have a panic attack as she furiously tries to stamp the rubber bugs to death. In retaliation, her mother placed her hand in a door jamb and slammed the door on it, breaking Thrace's hand. Thrace states that it "was worth it".
*During a refueling operation, Starbuck and [[Hot Dog]] are on [[CAP]] when she believes she sees an enemy.
*''[[Galactica]]'' can't see the contact, but Starbuck identifies it as a [[Heavy Raider]]. Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] notes that [[DRADIS]] information is hard to rely on as [[synchrotron radiation]] around the planet affects DRADIS performance.
*As Starbuck goes closer, she sees a storm system that looks remarkably like the mandala. The Raider flies close and, to Starbuck, appears to strike her fighter.
*Starbuck keeps descending into the storm, against [[Lee Adama|Apollo]]'s continuous attempts to warn her back up.
*Eventually, Starbuck struggles successfully to return to space, but not after, during the descent, she sees flashes of sights of an apartment with her mother standing there.

===Act 2===
*Starbuck is back aboard, but as [[Galen Tyrol]] and his deck crew inspect her Viper for damage, there is none.
*Starbuck's gun camera shows nothing, as several pilots including [[Sharon Agathon]], [[Lee Adama]], and [[Racetrack]] review it. They don't see Starbuck firing at anything but clouds.
*Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] speaks with his son and questions Thrace's competency. The admiral believes she is close to burnout, but the younger Adama believes her "steely-eyed Viper jock" mentality is all that holds Thrace together. The admiral repeats the question: Can she handle the strain?
*Lee Adama and Thrace are standing in the [[memorial hallway]]. Starbuck asks Major Adama to place her photo next to [[Kat]] if she meets her end before him. Likewise, Adama asks to have his photo next to [[Duck]] and his sweetheart, [[Nora]], both lost on [[New Caprica]] ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]).
*Thrace asks what Lee and Admiral Adama think of her flight readiness. Major Adama tries to give her encouragement but Thrace is distracted by a wax dripping that looks like the mandala.
*Thrace passes by the Admiral and President [[Laura Roslin]] without noticing them when Adama greets her with an [[Nothing but the rain|old tag line]] they shared before the new Cylon War ([[Miniseries]]). Before moving on, Thrace gives him the Aurora figurine from the oracle's tent as a masthead for his sailing ship models.
*As Thrace goes through inspection of her Viper, she again sees a little girl, this time in her cockpit--Thrace as a girl. Her face is bruised and bleeding. Thrace has flashbacks of her mother and is shocked into stopping her inspection.

===Act 3===
*A visibly shaken Thrace sits by her Viper when Lee Adama goes back to check on her.
*Thrace says she is not going back out to fly, not trusting herself. Adama volunteers to be her wingman to give her confidence.
*Thrace asks about [[Anastasia Dualla|Adama's wife]] and how their relationship was going. After a moment of discomfort after he notes things are going well, Thrace tells him that she is happy that things are working out. Thrace says that, as it was in the beginning, the two are back to being platonic.
*During Apollo and Starbuck's CAP, Starbuck sees another bogey and engages, but no one can confirm it on [[DRADIS]] again.
*Admiral Adama chooses caution and orders the Fleet to [[Action Stations|Condition One]] status, stopping refueling once more.
*Apollo is again trying to flag down Starbuck, but she is entranced once more and again flying downward in the clouds.
*Starbuck's Viper is hit by debris. Her forward canopy window is punctured, she is knocked unconscious, and her fighter begins to tumble. An alarm sounds in the cockpit, and the scene blurs to find a sleeping Thrace shutting off a radio alarm and awaking in her apartment, with [[Virtual Leoben|who appears to be a Leoben Cylon]] greeting her.
*Thrace believes she is being tricked again, unconscious or on a Cylon ship, but Leoben states otherwise.
*Leoben keeps noting how the mandala shape cloud attracts her, and that she has told anyone little about it.
*Leoben tells her of her tendency to cheat death ever since a day with her mother as they materialize to a small apartment, reliving an event six years ago, where Lieutenant Thrace stands before her mother as she reads a letter from a veterans administration. On the wall is a [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] medal of honor, ostensibly from the first [[Cylon War]].
*[[Socrata Thrace]] first congratulates her daughter for being the first of her family to become an officer, then berates her for being only 16th in her class and having many demerits.
*Kara Thrace retaliates by discussing her mother never reaching officer status despite serving in the Cylon War.
*The lieutenant sees a doctor's report that tells that her mother has cancer that has spread rapidly.
*Socrata rejects any attempts of her daughter's sympathy, and Kara Thrace runs out the door, vowing never to return. The "real-world" Starbuck begins to cry as she relives the moment.
*Socrata Thrace stares at a filled dish of cigarette butts.

===Act 4===
*The scene shifts. Leoben tells Thrace how her mother waited at her apartment and died five weeks later.
*When Thrace tells her reluctance to return, Leoben presents her with another image, where she is able to walk to her mother's deathbed, Socata has a scrapbook of every doodle and letter that Thrace made, including one with the mandala.
*Thrace tells her mother that something is about to happen, the thing that her mother was preparing her for. Socrata tells her daughter that she is ready as she holds her mother's hand. As she presses Socrata's hand to her face, her mother takes her last breath. Starbuck cries and then smiles at being able to be there to hear her mother's final words.
*Leoben tells her that death is not hard to embrace, that this was the lesson her mother was trying to teach her daughter.
*When Thrace realizes that the entity that has shown her these images [[Virtual Leoben|is not actually a Leoben]]. When asked, he replies that he never claimed to be - he is there to be her guide to see what lies "between life and death."
*The scene shifts back to the cloud where Starbuck fails to climb. She reawakens, but continues to drop and chase the Raider image. The planetary cloud boundary, the point of no-return, also called the "hard deck", is getting closer, upon which the air pressure would crush the Viper.
*Apollo finds Starbuck in her dive and the Heavy Raider appears briefly.
*Starbuck finally calls out to Apollo: "Lee, I'll see you on the other side." As Apollo frantically calls her to wave off, she repeats, in a whisper, "Just let me go."
*Starbuck sees a vision of white light in her cockpit, and she smiles. Viewers also see an image of her as a young girl in the same white light.
*A view from the tail of Apollo's Viper clearly shows the Raider, then Starbuck's Viper appears, chasing it. The bogey vanishes into the clouds, and the view cuts to Apollo, looking straight forwarding, declaring "Visual!"
*Shortly after Apollo gains visual of Starbuck, her Viper explodes. There is no ejection or rescue chute.
*Apollo reports the grim news to [[CIC]]. Everyone, from [[Saul Tigh]] to [[Gaeta]] to Admiral Adama, is visibly heartbroken.
*William Adama tries to work on his sailing ship model, with the Aurora figurine now attached, which fits perfectly. But his anger and grief over the loss of Kara Thrace leads him to destroy the model and begin to cry heavily.

==Bonus Scene==
*The scene begins shortly before Act 3, where, as Starbuck inspects her Viper, she finds hydraulic fluid, and becomes visibly angry at Chief Tyrol. Major Adama moves in to attempt to calm her down.

== Notes ==
*Katee Sackhoff had to sign a confidentiality agreement relating to what happened to her character in this episode.
*Adama can be seen building his model ship in "[[Home, Part I]]".
* The introduction of the goddess Aurora increases the number of known gods within the Colonial religion. As before with the use of names such as Mars and Jupiter, Aurora is the Romanized name for the Greek goddess [[w:Eos|Eos]].
* An [[w:Aurora (astronomy)|aurora]] is a radiant emission from a planet's upper atmosphere that occurs sporadically over the middle and high latitudes of both hemispheres in the form of luminous bands, thus forming the pattern of the mandala that Thrace sees in her first flight over the planet.
*[[Ron D. Moore]] has a reputation in ''[[w:Star Trek|Star Trek]]'' circles in killing characters in stories that he wrote for the series. The death of a central character such as Kara Thrace appears to uphold this reputation in ''Battlestar Galactica''.
*According to an official statement by Ron Moore, in the scene where viewers show the Heavy Raider image, Starbuck's Viper, and Apollo's Viper, Apollo did ''not'' see the Raider, having visual only on Starbuck.

== Analysis ==

* Although Starbuck contemplated ejecting from her damaged Viper, the planet is a gas giant and doesn't have a solid surface. A Jovian planet has [[w:Jupiter|winds of up to 700 km/hour]] and may have extreme temperatures in the depths. The duration which her ejection system could sustain her life is unknown.
* The episode brings many story elements of Starbuck's history to a close as everything comes to a full circle, which is a general meaning of a mandala in spiritual contexts. A few of these elements include:
** Admiral Adama and Thrace's interchange of "What do you hear? - [[Nothing but the rain]]". This is first scene that introduced Kara and her overall relationship with Adama at the beginning of the [[Miniseries]].
** The scene between Apollo and Starbuck where she states that they've reached full circle as she is again the hotshot pilot who gives nothing but grief to her CAG.
** Admiral Adama's proposed rescue of her is similar to his actions in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" when Thrace's Viper goes down over a hostile moon. However, this time, Lee dissuades his father from the attempt because of the futility of looking for Starbuck's destroyed Viper within a gas giant.
**Thrace's initial reaction and eventual denial to pull the ejection handle illustrated the completion of her endless cycle of fleeing death, which she now embraced with joy.
** Her continued hostility and bitterness towards her mother finally reaches its close as Thrace is finally able to witness her mother's death and hear her final words.
** The final moment before Thrace's Viper explodes, an image of a younger Thrace being engulfed in light could either be symbolism or an event that represents Thrace's return to her childhood innocence.
** Her hostility towards Leoben comes to a close as she comes to welcome the help and guidance of her "Leoben" guide.

*It should be noted that the Leoben in her vision is ''not'' a Cylon, but an [[Virtual Leoben|unidentified manifestation]]. Thrace says, "You're not Leoben." and the manifestation replies, "I never said I was." What this aspect of Thrace's vision means remains unknown.

* Thrace's death can be seen as the close of her original desire to die during the episode "[[Scar]]". However, here she is ready to embrace death and see a new beginning with it, while in "[[Scar]]" her original desire is fuel over despair of her belief that Anders was dead on Caprica. Both episode plots are motivated by a mysterious Cylon pilot.

* Admiral Adama is shown in the middle of building his model ship after the failed assassination attempt and the division of the Fleet ([[Home, Part I]]). The ship is finally completed at the moment of Adama coming to grips with his grief of Thrace's death. In reaction, the ship that was begun during a period of great personal turmoil within Adama is destroyed in the midst of another episode of intense grief and anger.

* Even though Lee Adama and Thrace decided to forge on with their marriages, it is Adama who has found contentment with Dualla while Thrace remained in turmoil with Anders. The scene after another love making session indicates that their relationship hadn't improved much since "[[Taking a Break from All Your Worries]]".

* The figurine that Thrace gives to Adama is an idol of the goddess Aurora, the goddess of the dawn and gentle breeze. The relationship between this goddess and Thrace seems to be highlighted prior to her Viper's explosion as she apparently is engulfed in light and wind within her cockpit.

* The connection and parallels between Major Adama and Thrace are furthered strengthened during Socrata Thrace's death scene. When Thrace confesses to her mother about her fear of taking the next step towards her destiny, her mother remarks that she knows that her daughter can meet the task. When asked how she knows this, her response is almost word for word exactly what William Adama said to his son in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]": "'You are my daughter (son).'" Thus, similar to Adama's son, Thrace is finally able to bury the hatchet with her mother.

* The "Leoben" guide explains that his role is to help Thrace take the next step to the place "between life and death." Interestingly, this is the same "place" that the model [[Number Three|D'Anna]] describes in "[[Hero]]" when she begins her suicide/resurrection chamber sessions in order to discover who the [[Final Five]] are.

== Questions ==
* Will Anders blame Apollo for the loss of Starbuck once the news of her death reaches him? ([[The Son Also Rises|Answer]])
* Who is the being that is Starbuck's "spiritual" guide during her dream? Is he somehow connected to the makers of the mandala in the Temple of Five? Is he in any way related to Baltar's [[Virtual beings|virtual Six and Six's virtual Baltar]]?
* Is the cockpit truly damaged from space debris, or is it imagined just as the supposed damage that Starbuck initially believed happened at the first encounter with the Raider?
* Will Helo experience any form of guilt or regret for showing the picture of the mandala to Starbuck?
* What does Starbuck mean when she tells Apollo: "See you on the other side"?
* Will Starbuck return as one of the final five Cylons?
* Who will take Starbuck's place as ''Galactica's'' Viper ace?
* Will Starbuck's death have any lasting effect on Lee Adama and Dualla's marriage?
* Considering the white light that appears to shine into Starbuck's cockpit and what the Leoben-figure mentioned about showing her what lies between life and death, is it possible that she is experiencing the same event that [[Number Three]] had on several occasions ("[[Hero]]", "[[Rapture]]")?
* Is the placement of Starbuck's Aurora figurine on Adama's model ship symbolic to Starbuck, in some way, guiding the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] on their path to Earth?
* Did the real Socrata Thrace see Kara come to her before she died?
* Did Kara Thrace really die? If not, how did she survive? ([[Crossroads, Part II|Possible answer]])

== Official Statements ==

Information from the [[Podcast:Maelstrom|podcast]]:

*The original script had Kara do three trips to the gas giant. It is during the second trip that she sees the Heavy Raider again, but panics and fakes a hydraulics problem with her Viper, which allows her to return to ''Galactica''. This was the original reason, not the lack of visual evidence of a Heavy Raider, that Lee and Adama had their conversation about her competency as a pilot.
*The model ship Adama was building over the course of the series was a very expensive rental prop which [[Edward James Olmos]] destroyed in an ad-lib expression of Adama's grief over the loss of Starbuck, much to the props crew's dismay as the model was valued in the range of the $100,000s. Thankfully, the ship was insured.
*The original script was meant to be a payoff for the end of "[[Rapture]]" when Helo showed Thrace the mandala. It was supposed to have Thrace face her fear of death and resist its call, while at the same time the overall payoff would be somehow linked to furthering the Fleet's voyage to Earth. After several iterations of the script, [[Ronald D. Moore|RDM]] and company decided to go down the dangerous avenue of killing off one of the major characters.
*The original script had an interior scene of the Heavy Raider as the first place that Kara would wake up from after she is knocked unconscious. There she would find Leoben using a device that would delve into her memories. At the time, however, RDM didn't know if it was possible if the show could revisit Thrace's apartment. Once that possibility was available, the interior of the Heavy Raider was abandoned because of cost and storyline suitability.
*The last scene between Adama and Thrace was originally to have ended on a more sour note. Thrace was supposed to be in a meeting between Adama, Lee, and Roslin, upon which Thrace noted out loud the possible romantic undertones between Adama and Roslin. Afterwards, Adama would dress Thrace down and those would have been his last words to her before her death. The director argued with RDM about cutting this scene out and eventually RDM gave way to allow a more comforting departure between the two characters.
*According to Moore, "Maelstrom" is, for him, the first page of the third act in the series overall. He believes that with this episode, the show is well on its way to completion and is now on act three out of a 4 act series.

Additional information from the [[Podcast:Frak Party Q&A|Frak Party Q&A]]:
*Initially RDM only told Katee Sackhoff that Starbuck would return in the [[Crossroads, Part II|season finale]]. When the episode script was published the cast and crew who were in the dark about it become particularly upset, Edward James Olmos and Mary McDonnell in particular. RDM described the mood as almost a "state of mutiny". Eventually Moore and David Eick had to call them and let them in on the secret that Starbuck was not really dead.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
''[[Kara Thrace]] sees [[Socrata Thrace]] die in a vision guided by something appearing to be [[Leoben Conoy]]:''
:'''Thrace''': "Momma, something's about to happen, you know that thing you were trying to prepare me for, I don't know if I can do it."
:'''Socrata''': "Oh yes you can, you can."
:'''Thrace''': "How can you be sure?"
:'''Socrata''': "You're my daughter."
:'''Leoben''': "See there's nothing terrible about death, when you finally face it, it's beautiful. You're free now, to become who you really are."
:'''Thrace''': "You're not Leoben."
:'''Leoben''': "I never said I was. I'm here to prepare you to pass through the next door, to discover what lies in the space between life and death."

== Guest Stars ==

*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Dorothy Lyman]] as [[Socrata Thrace]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as [[Brendan Costanza]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as [[Margaret Edmondson]]
*[[Don Thompson]] as [[Anthony Figurski]]
*[[Samantha Ferris]] as [[Pollux]]
*[[Georgia Craig]] as [[Brenn|Oracle Brenn]]
*[[Erika-Shaye Gair]] as Child [[Kara Thrace|Kara]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Maelstrom]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Maelstrom]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Maelstrom]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Viper Mark VII

2007-04-22T19:51:42Z

David Templar:

:''This article discusses the newer Viper-class fighters seen in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. For information on the older, generally obsolete Viper Mark II fighter from the same series, see [[Viper Mark II]]. For the Viper used in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] and in [[Galactica 1980]], see [[Viper (TOS)]].''
{{Ship Data
| image= BSG-Mark-VII.jpg
| title= Viper Mk. VII
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= No
| propol= 3 x turbothrust engines mounted aft, [[RCS]] points<ref name="propol">Very segmented exhaust nozzle design suggest possible thrust-vectoring.</ref>
| crew= 1 pilot in Terrell ES 24C ejection seat. <ref name="camp">Ammunition used was same as older Viper models; the Mark VII guns appear to have a higher rate of fire. Armaments listings and ejector seat details from David Bassom's ''[[The Official Companion|Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion]]''.</ref>
| role= Space superiority fighter
| weapons= 3 [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Viper and Cylon Raider|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], missiles
| arm= 3 x forward-firing kinetic energy weapons ([[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Viper and Cylon Raider|KEW]]), 2 mounted towards the outboard sections of the wings, 1 x mounted in the vertical stabiliser, Weapon hardpoints for mounting missiles / munitions pods, etc. under the wings.<ref name="camp"/>
| status= In current Colonial service
| length= 9.8643 meters<ref name="dim">Dimensions provided by [http://www.leestringer.com/ Lee Stringer], one of the VFX Animators of the miniseries. These are for the CGI models, which are based on but not identical to the fullsize props. Source: [http://www.starshipbuilder.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000012.html Starshipbuilder.com forums]</ref>
| height= 2.9508 meters<ref name="inflight">In flight, without landing gear. Landing gear adds approximately 0.5m.</ref>
| wingspan= 5.61 meters
}}
The '''Viper Mark VII''' was the [[Colonial Fleet]]'s latest update to the venerable [[Viper Mark II]] primary space superiority fighter / attack craft. Capable of atmospheric flight, the Viper is a single-seat craft mounting three kinetic energy weapons ([[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Viper and Cylon Raider|KEW]]), as well as having hardpoints beneath the wings for mounting missiles, munitions pods and other ordnance ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The Mark VII was the front-line variant of the Viper design, retaining the Mark II's general layout but adding fully integrated avionics that provide superior battle management and flight information for the pilot.

Ironically, it was the incorporation of the new integrated systems that prevented the majority of Mark VIIs from being effective during the Cylon attack: as with the majority of Colonial Fleet, the Mark VIIs suffer fatal computer system failures on contact with Cylon forces. Thanks to a [[Number Six|Cylon agent's]] relationship with Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]], scientist and programmer of the navigation software project, the [[CNP|navigational software]] in use onboard the majority of Colonial Fleet vessels contained backdoors that allow the Cylons to infiltrate a vessel's network by [[wireless]] signals and disable its power systems. While the problem could be overcome by removing the navigational upgrade compromised by the Cylons, this information is not discovered in time to be of major benefit to the surprised and hard-pressed Colonial forces.

== Technical Specifications ==

=== [[Computers#Avionics|Avionics]] ===

:''Main article: [[Computers in the Re-imagined Series#Vipers and Raptors|Computers in the Re-imagined Series]]''

[[Image:ViperMk7Avionics.jpg|left|thumb|200px|Mark VII main instrument panel]]
The Mark VII cockpit is almost totally computerized. There are far fewer analog gauges and more reliance on a more powerful central flight computer. This gives the Mark VII pilot far greater control of the fighter as well as, presumably, greater targeting control in a dogfight.

However, the latest and last software upgrade, the [[CNP]] upgrade, introduced a fatal flaw (inserted by a [[Cylon agent]]) in the Mark VII that led to the virtual annihilation of most of these fighters in the opening wave of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]].

The surviving Mark VII fighters on both ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' were likely retrofitted to older avionics packages to replace the compromised CNP, or other subsystems in the fighter were augmented or removed to minimize or eliminate further infiltration.

As of "[[Scar]]", ''Pegasus'' had begun to use her onboard construction facilities to produce replacement Vipers. Enough materials were mined in the asteroid field to produce two full squadrons. Presumably, these are Mark VII Vipers fitted with Cylon-proof avionics. Also, since ''Pegasus'' joined the fleet, the Mark IIs have been steadily phased out in favor of the retrofitted Mark VIIs, of which many were intact aboard ''Pegasus''.

=== Armament ===

:''Main article: [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Viper_and_Cylon_Raider|Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]]''

The Mark VII's main weapons are three cannons, two in the wings and one in the vertical stabiliser. However, usually only the wing-mounted cannons are used.

Like the [[Viper Mark II|Mark II]], it can also be armed with missiles.

=== Performance ===

*While the Mark II could rotate 180 degrees vertically in .35 seconds ([[Act of Contrition]]), it is presumed that the Mark VII has an equal or better performance ratio.

==Known Viper Mark VIIs==
*[[Viper 2276]]
*[[Viper 412]]
*[[Viper 613]]
*[[Viper 8757]]

==Maelstrom Variant==
[[Image:Viper Mk VII Maelstrom.JPG|thumb|Viper Mk VII in flight ([[Maelstrom]]).]]
During the episode "[[Maelstrom]]", a possible variant of the Viper Mk VII appears throughout. It is characterized by angular intakes and a different forward fuselage. It is unknown if this is a true variant or retroactive update of the design.

== Notes ==
* Since ''Galactica'' only had 40 Viper Mark IIs aboard as part of its museum, they needed as many fighters as possible. The remaining Mark VII's advanced computer systems were refitted to resist Cylon infiltration. However, since this is not how the Mark VII was designed to fly, the craft is increasingly more difficult to handle and can only be flown by the most experienced pilots such as [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]. ''Galactica'' had roughly 6-8 Mark VIIs on board after the Cylon attack ([[Scattered]], [[Flight of the Phoenix]]). (Source: [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/|official Scifi.com series website])

* According to [[David Weddle]] during the [[Podcast:Scar#Act 2|"Scar" podcast]] the Mark VII cockpit design "was actually laid out based on, I think it's either the [[Wikipedia:F-16 Fighting Falcon|F-16]] or the [[Wikipedia:F/A-18 Hornet|F-18]]." The side-mounted control stick more closely resembles that of the F-16, which is appropriate given the "Viper" nickname of the jet (that was initially the General Dynamics codename for the project, which was in turn named for the [[Viper (TOS)|TOS Viper]]).

* Also revealed in the podcast for Scar is that the full cockpit interior for the Viper Mark VII was built for the episode "Scar". "Flight of the Phoenix" had paved the way for the construction of the full cockpit when "the line producers and the production designers figure[d] out ways to move money around that basically bought us this cockpit because we had built the [[Blackbird|stealth fighter]]." The cockpit interior may have been constructed at the same time the Blackbird was being built.

* Like the [[Viper (TOS)|Original Series' Viper]], the weapons fire of Vipers on the Re-Imagined Series is red, however, the button is on the center of the joystick for the Mark VII, and the left for the Mark II ([[33]]).

* According to ''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion]]'', when creating the design of the Viper Mark VII, [[Gary Hutzel]] took a prexisting design from the [[Video Game|2003 video game]] loosely based on a mix of the Original Series and upcoming [[Miniseries]], then "did some modifications, and that became the Viper Mark VII".

== Related Imagery ==
<gallery>
Image:Markvii-pa.jpg|Production art
Image:MkVII Vipers sideon.jpg|Zoic CGI model
Image:BSG-Mark-VII.jpg|Zoic CGI model
</gallery>

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Battery/Archive 1

2007-04-15T00:51:42Z

David Templar: /* Limitations */

== Rails ==

David Templar writes:
:"If the rails mount on the guns serve any real functional purpose, it is probably heat dissipation; due to the lack of any medium to draw heat away from objects in space, disgarding waste heat would be a serious issue for the show's apparently chemical-propelled projectile weapons."

This seems like making up excuses for a production error, to me. If the intent of those rails really is heat dissipation, they would be much wider to provide a larger surface to radiate heat on. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:15, 31 March 2006 (CST)

:I concur. They just like the word "railgun" because it sounds cool. Distinctions between various slightly different kinds of hypothetical weaponry probably never occured to them. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:26, 31 March 2006 (CST)

::I never said it wasn't an excuse for production error, though I doubt it was so much error as "it looked cool". However, since the show's full of production errors to explain away (I'd love for someone to explain to me why they bothered dressing up guns in the miniseries but stopped in the TV series as anything other than laziness) and we have been explaining them away all over this wiki, I don't understand why this one should be any different. =P --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 21:28, 31 March 2006 (CST)

:::[[Wikipedia:Fanwank|It]] might be widespread, but I don't have to be happy about it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:21, 31 March 2006 (CST)

::::Haha, fair enough. Believe me when I say I prefer tight scripts over fanwanking any day, despite my ability to fanwank with the best of them. That unfortunate skill came from the nightmarishly long 7 years of Voyager and not nearly short enough 4 years of Enterprise... And with RDM's aversion to technobabble and reluctance to keep military/tech advisors on hand, BSG is a series destined to go down the path of fanwankery. Hell, even trying to stay consistent between episodes would cut down on the fanwank, they don't need a tech advisor for *that*. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 22:37, 31 March 2006 (CST)

:::::What makes this case especially egregious is that the cannons have never even been referred to as "railguns" in any canon source. I don't think you can get much worse than ''[[Wikipedia:fanon (fiction)|fanon]]'' fanwank. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:50, 31 March 2006 (CST)

::::::I shamefully admit my own involvement in that unfortunate incident. I didn't start it, but had a part in continuing it for a time. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 23:14, 31 March 2006 (CST)

:::::::You know, if we were talking about a land-assault vehicle instead of a space ship, that would make this whole thing a case of fanon cannon battletank fanwank. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:34, 31 March 2006 (CST)

==Cleanup==
Thoughts on what cleanup should be done to this article? [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 07:32, 9 January 2007 (CST)

:The first thing, based on the earlier comments here, is to rename this article to something like "Point defense cannons," with the original name redirecting here. Probably, the article's information is otherwise correct in describing their function. I'll take a looksee on the article and then move it--it's had enough time in committee. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:47, 9 January 2007 (CST)

::OK, I looked. This is full of [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]] and [[technobabble]] based on the incorrect name. I will make a major rewrite of this article based on what we have seen these cannons do since the miniseries. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:49, 9 January 2007 (CST)
::: Point defence cannons? They appear to be primarily offensive rather then defensive. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 11:17, 9 January 2007 (CST)

::::The article has been rewritten with extreme fanwanking prejudice, removing all unsourced information. "Railgun" will redirect to this article. The weapons are both offensive as ship-to-ship broadside cannons (as used in "Resurrection Ship, Part II" as well as defensive anti-aircraft batteries (Miniseries, 33, et al). Battlestars appear to rely more on their fighters in most engagements than taking the ship fully into a battle, thus the name. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:21, 9 January 2007 (CST)
::::: I still wouldn't call them Point defence cannons, the smaller gun turrets I would call point defence however, but still even destroying Raiders seems an offensive move, I suggest moving to Main gun batteries or Kinetinc energy weapons [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 11:50, 9 January 2007 (CST)
::::::Agreed. They aren't point defense weapons. Those are the small turrets along the pods. These are called "main batteries" numerous times on the show. Technically, a battery is a group of cannons. They are used for offense and not just defense. One single turret or gun could be called "main gun" maybe. But that's something I'd rather set up as redirect. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:03, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Looks great, thanks! [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 11:27, 9 January 2007 (CST)

:These are definitely cannons in that they fire slower than the side guns, but they are multi-use, and I agree on the use of the smaller guns, although they don't seem to aim (what is that article or their naming?). Other name suggestions? "Flak cannons?" (that's definitely what they deliver). A generic "Central batteries" or something? Anything but "railgun" or "gun" is fine with me; I'm not married to this new term. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:12, 9 January 2007 (CST)

::What about the [[Battery]] article? -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:20, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:::Good catch. Totally forgot about that one. I think they should be combined. The battery article is pretty good --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:30, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:::: (/me bows) That was one of my "christ-I'm-bored" efforts, with some excellent edits by some of the "big guns" (forgive the pun) on the wiki -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:33, 9 January 2007 (CST)

:::::That's fine with me, too. It has more specific information and combines both types of weapons. Merging would be a good plan. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:58, 9 January 2007 (CST)

It always appeared to me there were two types of guns on galactica - rapid firing large "machine gun" types for destruction of missiles and flak cannons for destruction of raiders and ships. I think there should two distinct articles for them, any thoughts? --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 13:24, 9 January 2007 (CST)

== General weapons articles organization ==
This is sort of a reply to LordMutt. The small guns are dealt with here: [[KEW]]

But to make it even more confusing, that one ''also'' deals with the main guns. So maybe more re-structuring is needed to have less duplication. How about this: 
1.) A general weapons "disambiguation" which links to all gun articles. Maybe that one can be called KEW 
2.) Seperate subpages for the main battiers, point defense guns (the ones on the pods) and small arms 
3.) Possibly one of those category things for guns like recently done with medicine 
4.) The only thing I'm not sure about is, where to put are the small craft weapons, as that's about Viper and Raider weapons both 

OR: Keep the KEW articles as it is, but delete the part about the main guns and just put a "See main article: Batteries" there instead. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:35, 9 January 2007 (CST)

First 4 points sound good - another point is, should we have seperate Colonial and Cylon gun categories, or should we just mix them together (this is my view, considering the only Cylon guns are AA batteries on the refinery base and Raider cannons) --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 14:09, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:Since the weapons are basically the same - in a sense they are using Colonial weapons technology - seperating them would be kinda pointless IMO --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:12, 9 January 2007 (CST)

::I think [[Battery]] is sufficient (in content at least) for both point-defense guns and flak cannon data. I don't think separating them is a good idea. How about this: We create a new article: "Weapons in the Re-imagined Series" (making it a child article of [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]]). This new child details the weaponry for both Cylons and Colonials, summarizing information for topics that need their own separate article just as we do in the [[Cylon Spacecraft]] article. This child article can combine [[KEW]] and [[Battery]], then also note Cylon weaponry, such as their anti-aircraft batteries, basestar missiles, and Cylon KEW (if we know anything about it). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:48, 9 January 2007 (CST)

:::That's probably the best idea. Links it more to already existing tech articles, pulls all weapons related stuff together, while also reducing the duplication present now. It's basically what I had in mind, but I forgot about the "Science..." series. Though I think "Small Arms" could be an own article, thus seperating it a bit from spacecraft weaponry. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:07, 9 January 2007 (CST)

::::I agree on Small Arms. I may work on this merge a little later if no one beats me to it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:34, 9 January 2007 (CST)

== Limitations ==

I took out the Limitations section because all the things it suggest is contrary to onscreen evidence. It went something like this.

"Since its turrets are relatively slow to traverse, a battlestar's main guns would be a poor choice for engaging [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|enemy fighters]] which are small, fast and extremely maneuverable. They would also be impractical for defending against enemy missile attacks, which would be more suceptible to attack from [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Point_defense_guns|point defense weapons]] or Vipers.

The turrets' slow rate of fire also means that a single turret, if left to operate alone - either due to damage, power failure or any other events - may not be a very effective method of attack. It is for this very reason that the turrets are grouped in batteries."

Basically, the above suggests three things.
1. Poor choice for engaging Raiders
2. Impractical for defending against enemy missile attacks
3. Lone turret ineffective

Contrary to the above, we have first of all flak shells for engaging Raiders at the distance, and in fact represent one of the first munitions we ever see Galactica's gun fire. They provide a practical standoff ability to engage distant Raiders, hardly a poor choice.

Secondly, we see Galactica's main guns engage missiles ALL THE TIME. Again, her main batteries are seen as a standoff means of deflecting missiles from basestars. Indeed, her main batteries would be far better at providing anti-missile defence for the fleet than her flak guns due to disbersion issues.

Finally, basestars can't stop a shell. Only reason two batteries is more effective than one is there are two of them.--[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 19:51, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Battery/Archive 1

2007-04-15T00:51:25Z

David Templar: Deletion of Limitation section

Battery

2007-04-15T00:44:26Z

David Templar: The limitation section is unnecessary b/c everything it says is contrary to on screen evidence.

[[Image:Railgun.jpg|thumb|right|One of ''Galactica's'' gun turrets]]

On Colonial warships, a '''battery''' is a group of large gun turrets working together. A battery may consist of any number of gun turrets and the arrangement varies from class to class.<ref>These are not [[w:Railgun|railguns ]]. No [[BW:CJ|official sources]] use this term to describe these weapons, and there is substantial evidence to the contrary.</ref>

[[Galactica type battlestar|Galactica type]] battlestars are armed with 24 gun turrets, with 2 gun barrels each. It is likely that the term "battery" refers to several of these turrets acting in concert.

On [[Mercury class]] battlestars, on the other hand, four forward guns are grouped to a battery ([[The Captain's Hand]]). <ref name="battery">''Pegasus's'' bow battery can be seen to consist of four gun turrets when she engages a Cylon basestar.</ref> In addition, many smaller, 2-barelled turrets are located along the sides of the [[flight pod]]s. Unlike ''Galactica's'' rapid-fire [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Point_defense_guns|point defense guns]], these have a slower rate of fire and are also used for offensive action ("[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", "[[Exodus, Part II]]").

*It should be noted that, in modern day naval nomenclature, a vessel's "main battery" is its primary ''offensive'' weapon. Since the battery of four two-barreled gun turrets at the bow of ''Pegasus'' has been referred to as such on several occasions, it is likely that this battery - presenting the battlestar's smallest profile to the enemy - is used primarily for offensive actions, while the others could be adapted for use as per mission parameters.

[[Image:PegasusForeBatteries.jpg|thumb|right|''Pegasus'' firing her main battery ([[The Captain's Hand]]).]]

==Ammunition==

[[Image:Flakfield.jpg|thumb|right|The flak field from ''Galactica's'' large turrets ([[Scattered]])]]

The large turrets found on Colonial [[battlestar|battlestars]] fire several types of ammunition, depending on the objective:

*Flak ammunition: this ammunition employs [[w:shrapnel|exploding metal fragments]] at high velocity, creating a defensive barrier around the battlestar which can shear enemy fighters or incoming missiles. This, along with the point-defenses, keep the enemy at a distance, allowing the battlestar's [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] forces to safely deploy and engage ([[Scattered]]).

*Offensive ammunition: in this configuration, salvos from the main cannons are extremely lethal to the unarmored Cylons [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]], which furthermore posess no such weapons or point-defense themselves. As such, this is a battlestar's main weapon against other capital ships ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]", "[[Exodus, Part II]]").

It should be noted that the massive recoil caused by firing these flak rounds makes it impossible for the cannon to have a fast rate of fire like the battlestar's point-defense turrets. These shells are also too large to be loaded quickly and efficiently by crew members, and as such are loaded by mechanical hoists ([[33]]).

==Firing Solution==

[[Image:Pegasus Hi-Res 5a.jpg|thumb|right|''Pegasus's'' flight pod batteries ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).]]

When engaging enemy targets over any kind of distance, a '''firing solution''' must be obtained. This requires several pieces of information to be input to a battery's fire-control computer, including the target's speed, course, and range; and the firing platform's speed and course. The velocity of the shells would be known, and is constant, given that there is no air friction in the vacuum of space. The resulting computation would allow the gun captains to accurately aim their weaponry to such a degree that firing will result in a probable hit.

==Operation==

[[Image:TheEnemysGateIsDown.jpg|thumb|right|The devastating effect Colonial batteries can have on a Cylon basestar ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])]]

As with modern naval cannon, Colonial gun batteries have several modes of operation.

*Salvo Fire: this calls for a battery, or elements of a battery, to fire simultaneously at a single target. ([[The Captain's Hand]])
*Full Attack Mode: a battery's commander (Gun captain, [[33]]) will target and engage targets of oppertunity. <ref name="attack">During the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]], batteries are called to "fire at will".</ref>

On [[Mercury class battlestar|Mercury-class battlestars]], gun batteries can be set to one of several automatic firing modes ([[Exodus, Part II]]). It is unknown if the gun batteries on [[Galactica type battlestar|older battlestars]] have this capability as well. There are likely other modes of operation for these batteries, but none have been explicitly stated on screen.

At least on ''Galactica''-type battlestars, the turrets appear to be manned and manually fired.

== See Also ==

[[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (TOS)]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Viper Mark VII/Archive 1

2007-04-10T16:40:40Z

David Templar: Dead Sci-Fi Channel link about Mk VII

'''Sci-Fi Channel on Mk VII retrofitting and handling'''
The Sci-Fi Channel link's dead, I think it's been dead for a while. Looks like Sci-Fi Channel has decided it doesn't need its own commentary page about the technical aspects of the BSG universe anymore. So what now? Would that bit about the Mk VII being harder to fly because of a lobotomy finally be removed off BSGWiki, or would we simply put up a "dead link" road sign? Personally, I've been arguing about the unlikelihood/uncanonacy/illogic-ness of Sci-Fi Channel's statement since day one, so I'm definately in favour of striking it completely. I know the page going down doesn't automatically equal retraction of the statement, but I'd think the series itself has provided amble evidence to the contrary of Mk VIIs being difficult to handle and only flown by the most experienced pilots. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:40, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Kara Thrace/Archive 1

2007-03-07T18:49:12Z

David Templar: /* '''Kara Thrace DEAD?''' */ Starbuck Ascended.

As far as you actually see in the episode 'The Farm' there is only one new abdominal scar on Starbuck. This would suggest that only one of her ovaries has been removed, not two. The podcast may have more precise information, however.

:The phrase "[[CAG]] Second in Command" is a kind of awkward consturction. Can anybody think of a better way to describe her role? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 21:41, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

:: I don't believe that she actually has a title. She's an instructor and Viper pilot... and a crack shot with a sniper rifle. (How she got ''that'' talent is likely a subject of interest...) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:18, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

::: I agree on all counts. The thing is that we know she's understood to be in charge whenever Apollo is indisposed, but CAG Second in Command just doesn't sound quite right. I just don't know what would sound better [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:27, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

::::Senior pilot after Capt. Lee Adama? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Vice-CAG? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 15:45, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:::::: Military wise, she would be the Air Group Executive Officer were she second in command of the pilots. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:34, 18 January 2006 (EST)

==Verb Tense for Zak Stuff==
I reviewed the standards and conventions page, and it seems like the Zak Adama stuff really deserved the past tense since it occured "prior to the Mini-Series". The example in the second paragraph references Zak's funeral, which seems to be a pretty fitting example to apply here. So does all the pre-mini-series go to past tense, or are we going to 100% present tense (in which case we'd probably need to change the standards and conventions page). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:28, 18 January 2006 (EST)

: We can change the standards if we want (I mean--''we''wrote tham, after all), but I think it makes sense... As I was editing that, I was already getting confused about tenses and such, and I only really touched the one paragraph. Joemc72 and I already sorted it out on [[User talk:Day#Past vs Present tense|my Talk page]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:31, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:: I went ahead and reverted it back. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:32, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::SV is correct. Events from the miniseries on are present tense unless confusing. Flashbacks of events prior to miniseries and regular series should be worked as past tense. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)

==Paging Dr. Freud==

In the miniseries, Thrace doesn't tell Adama she doesn't ''have'' a big enough dipstick for his job, but that ''she's'' not a big enough dipstick. It's one line, but this is an unintentionally funny rendering of the quote... if you consider all the folks who were against Starbuck being a girl... [[User:Below|Below]] 16:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)
:Thrace has authority issues when crossed, yes. Not as cavalier about it as the original Starbuck, but then, this is a darker world. When compelled to, however, Thrace can obviously manage the work, even excel. She's still second CAG, now that Adama has returned to that status, and can effectively lead an attack as CAGs do, title or no. Thrace does have the "dipstick"; but she HATES having to deal with mentalities like Tigh. But she hates being out of the pilot's seat more, which gives her a greater sense of control than anything. I'd have Thrace plan any attack, anytime. And, in keeping with the dipstick metaphor, you can always expect her to be on top in almost anything she does. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:08, 3 February 2006 (EST)
Grin. I was thinking that an additional dimension to her authority issues was seen in the last few episodes. I think it would be interesting to integrate into this article if possible, but tonight's episode might have some more to say first. We know she had an abusive mother who served in the military, and identifies with her father. The Admiral is a positive father figure to her, but she's disgusted by Tigh, especially his drinking. (Was alcohol her mother's personal tinderbox?)
Enter Cain. On the one hand, Cain identifies with Thrace and gives her positive reinforcement: eg Do you always get what you want, I usually do. In my viewing, Sackhoff plays it as being both nervous and touched by Cain's approval. (Her mother had said she'd never account to anything: here's a much higher ranking woman claiming that she's capable of greatness.) Pretty clear that Cain wants to mentor Thrace, and sees a "younger self" in the pilot. At the same time, it's not a stretch to parallel the violent, volatile Cain with Thrace's absent, abusive mother. (Michelle Forbes would be a really interesting Medea.)
So Kara is being asked to choose between father figure Adama and mother figure Cain, and shooting Cain may feel like a kind of matricide.
Usually when TV shows or movies set up a young character against "two parents," one good, one bad, it's a young man torn between two fathers or father figures (witness "A Bronx Tale," "Platoon," "Star Wars", many others), so it's interesting to see that dynamic with a young woman. One more reason I love watching this show. [[User:Below|Below]] 11:18, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:Oh yes; for the past few weeks I've been repeatedly asking on the official site's RDM blog thread if they ''intentionally'' wrote it that Starbuck was won over by Cain because it was like her mother giving her the recognition that she never got. Of course, I ask a lot of things there....(I was annoyed when in his recent blog update yesterday A) people sometimes ask questions he's already answered many months ago (like, "Where is Boxey" and "Why don't we see the engine room?"), so B) he didn't realize this (I don't blame him, he's got a lot of work to do) so he wasted a blog entry answering questions that were already answered....except one, btw; apparently, the Presidential election is coming up soon. Probably not by the season 2 finale, obviously, but I got the impression he's playing around with script stuff for it now, and who knows? It might be the season 3 cliffhanger...or at most the season 3 finale. This, of course, would prove that they have indeed jumped several months ahead (once again, how could 2 months pass during Flight of the Phoenix?...but I digress....). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:46, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:: How, you ask? Easily. See, all that we saw on the show was actually in ''fast forward''... See, for that month, Bill had decided that everyone was to do everything at ''one sixth'' of normal speed... Thus, all that took two months. I thought that was obvious. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:01, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Scar==

What's with the "Kara is CAG in Scar" business? It looked like Apollo was still in charge to me. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:27, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Kara was responsible for briefings and I'm pretty sure I heard her referred to as CAG a few times in the episode. --Ltcrashdown 00:29, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Negative, Lieutenant. Kat said to Kara, "The CAG wants us spread out so we can cover more ground. It's right here in the briefings." I'm pretty sure that's accurate, anyway. Someone check me. Anyway, I thought it was clear she was talking about Lee. Now... Why was she doing all the briefings? I have no idea... I thought for a bit that maybe Lee was on ''Pegasus'' doing some kind of fleet-wide-CAG duties, but ''Peggie'' was off protecting the Fleet, so he'd probably not be jumping back and forth to almost have sex with Kara and all that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:56, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Because Lee has seniority over Kara (both are Captains, but he's been one longer, etc) he is in charge of their whole widescale operation. I mean, the guy can't be awake 24 horus a day and be everywhere at once. He needs to delegate duties now and again like this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:59, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Serial Number==
It's partially visible on the dogtag she gave Anders in "Downloaded": ?? 462753 - the two question marks would be letters, and I think the second one is a T, but Lucy Lawless's hand is covering the first. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:30, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I found that Galacticastation has a great screencape [http://www.galacticastation.com/Screencaps/S2/218/bscap414.htm here] of her ID tag. Can you guys tell what it is? It's not a T, it's....I can't tell if it says "ser" for "service number" (thus, not actually part of of the number), or "3er"...which seems odd as this is lowercase.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:03, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
::My first impression is that it is "ser" for serial or service number for the reason it is not together with the number. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:36, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

:Yeah, but Helo has a "PK" prefix to his serial number and Boomer had a "T" prefix. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:07, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

: Just a note, in "[[Collaborators]]" we see the full shot on her id tags during her conversation with Anders. It is prefixed by "ser" (sans quotes). If anyone can get a screencap to confirm, that'd be nice. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:32, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:It says "ser 462753". Screencap here: [http://galacticastation.com/Screencaps/s3/304/lowres/bscap381.htm] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:: Thought so. Thanks Serenity. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:45, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Major Pre-Season 3 Revision ==

As with the central characters [[William Adama]], [[Laura Roslin]], and [[Gaius Baltar]], I've heavily concised this article, removing extraneous episode information, to prepare it for season 3 information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:37, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:I suggest marking this article for cleanup and revision. Kara's biography is still a bit too long and quite messy - it's actually one big unclear stream of facts. I think it should be divided into a few parts, significant and dividing episodes being "Kobol's Last Gleaming", "Home", "Lay Down Your Burdens" and "Collaborators". -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:42, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:I agree to the cleanup and revision of this article, particularly the content added since season 3, as it is inconsistently written. (I've tried to clean it up, but a rewrite is in order for tone issues.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:29, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Socrata Thrace? ==

I've removed this reference because the reference was far too vague; the reference pertains to Thrace's mother, "Socrata".

: ''[[Socrata]] (revealed in TV Guide Magazine)''

If anyone can be specific as to the reference, including but not limited to page number, issue number, publication date, et al, please feel free to add it back in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Done and done. I refrained from the context, though, because what little there is I fear maybe spoilery. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 07:34, 11 December 2006 (CST)

=='''Kara Thrace DEAD?'''==
Now I'm disappointed in Battlestar Galactica. Starbuck was killed off Sunday night or at least we are led to believe she is dead. I like to think there is more to this than what was shown.--[[User:Avazina|Avazina]] 20:21, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:She is definitely dead, but that means nothing in fiction. You're probably right. Don't feel too disappointed; the classical heroes of Greek mythology suffered and died often to fulfill their missions. We're very used to our western heroes always riding off into the sunset to fight another day. Some day the sun will no longer rise. There was a bit in the episode that suggests that Kara is visiting the space between life and death; we'll see. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:47, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::Don't worry, she's merely ascended to another plane of existence. She'll be back next season as an Ancient. I mean, Final Five. Wow, deja vu Atlantis. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 12:49, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Atlantia (TRS)

2007-03-06T06:46:26Z

David Templar: Maybe Major Adama and Chief Tyrol served on this Atlantia, maybe an older one?

:''For information on an [[Original Series]] [[Battlestar (TOS)|battlestar]] of the same name, see [[Atlantia (TOS)]].''

{{Ship Data
| image=
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Primary and point-defense [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Destroyed in [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon Attack]]
}}

The battlestar '''''Atlantia''''' features integrated command and control systems and Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]]'s [[Command Navigation Program]] (CNP). She is selected by Admiral [[Nagala]] as their flagship during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon Attack]] after [[Fleet Headquarters]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] is destroyed.

''Atlantia'' herself is soon reported destroyed over [[the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], a victim of the [[backdoor]]s created by the Cylons using the compromised CNP ([[Miniseries]]).

It was on ''Atlantia'' that [[William Adama]] made his 1,000th Viper landing ([[Act of Contrition]]) and received the promotion to Major ([[Hero]]). At one point in his career, Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]] served aboard ''Atlantia'' before finally being assigned to ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

Whether or not the two served on the same ''Atlantia'' that was destroyed over [[the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]] is unclear. Since over a decade passes between Adama's time as Major onboard the ''Atlantia'' and the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. Similarly, Chief Tyrol was in the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)]] for well over a decade, with no clear indication as to how recent his tour onboard the ''Atlantia'' was.

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]
[[Category:Battlestars (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Battle of New Caprica/Archive 1

2007-02-26T19:55:42Z

David Templar: /* Material Losses */ Initial volley on basestar

Holy frak. (And that was from the first 30 minutes.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:05, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:You took the words right out of my mouth. Most excellent! --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:45, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
::I know! Holy frakking frak. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:47, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:::My Grandchildrens' childeren will kmow about this episode! --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:03, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Was so good... I am posting my own option.... 100 out of 10. ;-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:39, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

==Losses==
We've said "dozens" or "hundreds", but we should decide on one, because frankly I support "dozens". Nobody died in Pegasus, and on New Caprica it didn't look like "hundreds" died considering that's a big number for these people. So what will it be? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:51, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:For starters, we don't know that there weren't fatalities aboard the ''Pegasus'' (people may have died from hull breaches or whatnot before Adama gave the order to abandon ship). I do agree, however, that it was probably dozens, maybe less than a couple hundred at max (and that's stretching it, IMHO) that died planetside. I would list "Losses currently unknown" until we start getting a fleet population count again, then work our way from there.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 18:10, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:Actually, "unknown number" would work better, since we do not know specifically either way. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 04:45, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

With the survivor count reinstated in "Collaborators" we now know that about 2000 people died on New Caprica, both in the insurgency and the exodus. 
LDYB: 39,192 + 2,000 + 2,200 = 43,392 (2000 in the escaped civilian ships, 2200 on both half-strength battlestars) 
Collaborators: 41,435 
Since there is some rounding and guessing involved anyways, "approximately 2000" seems to be the best.

It can also be assumed that a couple of civilian ships were destroyed or left back on the planet, as numerous civilians are on Galactica. RDM mentioned that in the podcast as well. We just didn't see it on screen. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:16, 29 October 2006 (CST)

:Unfortunately, that covers the entire time span between LDYB2 and Collaborators, nearly five months. We can be sure that many died in the Exodus, but many of those casualties must have taken place during the occupation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:43, 29 October 2006 (CST)
::True, but not even a larger part of it. There wasn't ''that'' much fighting until shortly before the end. Just guessing I'd say less than 300 during the occupation. That still leaves a sizeable amount of losses during the evacuation
::Maybe a note, saying that it includes the losses during the whole occupation? It's probably the closest we'll ever get to an accurate number and far better than "unknown" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:48, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Also, please dont neglect the destruction of Cloud Nine and the other two vessels alongside - they may have had a few 1000 people on them... --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 19:18, 29 October 2006 (CST)

:We haven't. See [[survivor count]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:06, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Why are deaths in the insurgency being included in the casualties box? Approx 500 people died during it so that would make the losses of the actual battle at roughly 1500. So again, why are insurgency deaths being included? [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 15:37, 22 December 2006 (CST)

:Where are you getting 500 from? As far as I know, we don't know how many people died in the insurgency. We heard some numbers from isolated incidents but have no idea what happened offscreen. If you can proove those numbers, sure. But unless I missed something, it seems like speculation to me.
:One could even argue that the resistance also belongs to the battle. At least it led up to it and made it possible --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:46, 22 December 2006 (CST)

==Which Three is this Three?==

''...Meanwhile, Baltar and [[Caprica Six]] attempt to stop [[D'anna Biers]] from activating a nuclear device. After the Cylons lost control of the ground situation, the majority of the agents left on a [[Heavy Raider]] and left Biers with the responsibility of activating a nuclear device to "clean up"; however, she can't find it.''

How exactly was it detemined that this Three was the [[D'anna Biers]] Three? I would argue that this three was the one that tried to have the "War Heroes" boxed in [[Downloaded]]. D'anna, (assuming she died on Cloud 9, we don't know) was still alive and with the fleet according to the [[Timeline]].

And how did we determine that Three "couldn't find" the nuke? It appears that she made a beeline for the oracle, as presumably the nuke would be located inside the "green zone". [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 00:41, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:Actually, she was named as D'anna by Baltar, which is pretty interesting. Somehow she must have been able to avoid being exposed by Anders for over a year, until the arrival of new resurrection facilities. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:12, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::Look at the "Number Three" article talk page. I posted a section on some research I did to find out which Three it was :p --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 05:59, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:As interesting as this discussion is, it is more relevant for the [[Exodus, Part II]] or [[Number Three]] page rather than the page for the battle. I'm cutting down the last paragraph about this sequence for the same reason. My rationale: once the civilian ships depart, once the basestars are destroyed/debilitated, once ''Galactica'' is away, a potential squabble between Baltar and whichever Cylons happen to remain on the surface matters very little. There is very limited militarily decisive action; it ought not get more than a cursory review in a battle summary, especially with as much as we must assume to make the description accurate. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 11:40, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:I concur with Keithustrus. Battle pages are not for episode or character narratives. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:49, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

==Atmospheric Heating Effects==

Of course it looked cool, but I am not really sure why the underside of Galactica would have been superheated as it descended toward New Caprica City the way it was protrayed in the episode. Such superheating is not the result of free-falling through the atmosphere, but actually the result of friction with the atmosphere due to extreme velocity. Which is precisely why skydivers do not burn up after jumping out of an airplane but space craft deorbiting (traveling initially at about 5 miles per second coming from low Earth orbit as an example) do. Galactica jumped into the atmosphere over New Caprica City, it did not (strictly speaking) reenter the atmosphere. It is possible, of course, that any velocity Galactica had prior to jumping was imparted to or else retained by Galactica after the jump. However, one might be pardoned for supposing that any such velocity would have been along the ship's main bow-to-stern axis (though this is not necessarily true), and not stright along the free fall axis the ship was clearly heating up on (i.e., from dorsal to ventral side). I would also point out that Galactica did not appear to be traveling at a sufficient speed in its fall to cause superheating, though of course this may be the subject of debate. Anyway, just a thought. The dramatic effect more than made up for any possible technical inaccuracy. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 19:08, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:That's a good technical error to add to one of the science articles, if the general article. ''Galactica'' would have had to be moving much faster than the rate she was falling. The Space Shuttle Orbiter superheats at less than 17,000 MPH as it reenters, and its much higher. Science be damned, though--it was thoroughly badass. :)--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:42, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::Yeah, can you give me a suggestion as to which article(s) to bring this up in? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 22:59, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:But don't forget, that data is based on the chemical makeup and density of our own atmosphere. Its possible that New Caprica's atmosphere is quite a bit different than Earth's, even though it is still inhabitable. And for all we know, FTL travel causes the surface of a vessel to heat up. This is all hypothetical, but its justification for the appearance of the atmospheric heating. --[[User:Maserati1945|Maserati1945]]

::Yes, but we have to assume that New Caprica's atmospheric makeup is at least somewhat similar to Earth normal (which carries the underlying assumption that the Colonials are used to something along those lines), or else we would notice some sort of profound difference, such as a difference in rate of combustion, sound transmission, or any number of other things. I just do not think we have any reason to believe New Caprica is any different (atmosphericaly) from any Terran-type planet. (Probably does not hurt that they actually film the episodes on Earth. ;-) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 22:59, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:That's a good bit of study but there is another very big factor and that is the sheer size of the Galactica. Nothing that size has ever been witnessed to enter Earth's atmosphere and the incredible mass of it adds a multiplier. What we are seeing is a large release of energy and energy is force through a given distance and force is mass and exceleration, therefore energy = mass x acceleration x change in distance or = mass x velocity squared. Those are 3 equal parameters to energy. We know that the space shuttle superheats at 17,000 mph or thereabouts and lets assume that the gravity of New Caprica is equal to the gravity of Earth, that is g = 9.8 m/s^2. Let's also assume that the distance that they dropped was 90,000 m - a guess from the dialog but really it's just a guess but what seems a theorical large enough distance for the depicted sequence of events to have occurred. Given these parameters, if the Galactica was 654,820 times larger than the space shuttle, then it would release the same amount of energy. (I could bore you with the math but I don't think that is necessary. Ya'll get the idea.) However, I am certainly willing to bet that the Galactica is many million times larger than the Space Shuttle and therefore would release many times more energy which would account for the same superheating effect seen on screen, though objects falling fair slower than the space shuttle, and of much less size cause the same superheating effect. Case in point, the Mercury-Redstone 3 carrying Alan Sheppard to be the 1st American in space only traveled to less than 10,000 MPH (it didn't reach orbital speeds) and was 1/2000 times the size of the space shuttle and it returned superheated. There was this super-rich dude (sorry, I can't remember his name. I'll come back later with a site but right now I can't remember the dudes name.) who recently did a superhigh jump from .... I think it was 80,000 feet and he had to wear heat shielding to protect himself. Again, much smaller object and starting from a relative standstill getting superheated. Normal parachute jumpers only jump from a few hundred to a few thousand feet but no more. You gotta face it! The Galactica is one big ole vessel and it had to jump from a very high altitude to pull off that stunt and it doesn't move through atmo without consequences.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 23:55, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::Actually, I ran the math again (1st time I did it practically in my head so it was a little esque) and if I say that the Galactica is 100,000 times larger than the space shuttle dropped at the same parameters, I get 15,000 times as much energy released. Therefore, 1 million times as large produces 150,000 times as much energy. This is taking the Galactica starting at a rest stop (no speed relative to New Caprica) when it initially jumped into the atmosphere. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:44, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

:I think you are missing the point here: the size of the object is not the issue, it is the speed at which it is traveling. Yes, Galactica has orders of magnitude more potential energy than the Space Shuttle reentering, but most of that energy would be released upon impact with the ground, not as a result of atmospheric friction. And I am not contending that Galactica would not have heated to some degree because of free-fall acceleration: it clearly would. (As indeed spacecraft do upon launch, just not nearly to the degree they do upon reentry where they have to use drag to *entirely* eliminate their orbital velocity.) Whether it would heat it to that degree or cause that level of damage is another question entirely. And there simply is no question that Galactica was traveling anywhere near 17,500 mile per hour or even the 10,000 miles per hour of a suborbital Alan Shepard-type loft. Those speeds are blindingly fast, and Galactica simply was not going that fast based on the video evidence. I lack the math physics to prove it, but I also suspect Galactica's terminal velocity within an atmosphere would also be far, far under the figures necessary to cause deorbit-type heating. Just my two cents. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:12, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks for you 2 cents. It's hard to say without actually doing the math (It's definitely a good science experiment for a Physics 101 course) and nobody here can say "Oh, yeah, this is the answer" cuz nobody has ever scene a 2,000,000,000,000 KG drop from that height. But my point is the number of zeroes that are in the mass of the Galactica and I've scene superheating events in significantly smaller objects. A mass with that many zeroes is just as important a factor as how fast it is going. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 12:28, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

:Been a long time since taking physics, but let me throw in my two cents. Start with the basics: terminal velocity. If something goes faster than that, it's drag slows it until it reaches that speed. Drag = heat. Let's assume, based on the info [[wikipedia:terminal velocity|here at Wikipedia]] and [[wikipedia:Reentry|here]], that Galactica has terribly more drag than a skydiver or peregrine falcon. I'll guess it's TV is something like...pure guess...150km/h. This, btw, is 93mph or .04 km/s, absolutely nothing compared to the speeds that a ship would be travelling outside of an atmosphere. Here's the main question: '''after jumping, does Galactica begin with an initial velocity, relative to the planet, of 0, or does it maintain its inertial velocity?''' Wikipedia: "An approximate rule-of-thumb used by heat shield designers for estimating peak shock layer temperature is to assume the air temperature in Kelvins to be equal to the entry speed in meters per second. For example, a spacecraft entering the atmosphere at 7.8 km/s would experience a peak shock layer temperature of 7800 K." So, if Galactica started from a complete stop, it's shock layer temperature would be 42K, which I don't have to tell you is not going to light anything on fire. Because there was fire and all that stuff, I'm going to assume they were travelling at thousands of mph. My conclusion: '''when ships jump, they maintain their Newtonian momentum,''' which makes sense, when you think about it. It seems like the ship could have been saved a lot of wear and tear if it had manually stopped, then jumped. That way, it would fall at *only* its TV, and be subject to not much heat. . . . . . but I'm an amateur. Any experts around? - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 13:22, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

::Keithustus, Great analysis! However, you guess for TV I think is way off. TV is not a constant. It is a variable that has many parameters, one of which in the numerator is Mass. Therfore, the larger the Mass, the larger the TV. The impression the show gave is that it started from a standstill, what Galactica did was like a skydive. So I can make a comparison with a famous skydiver, [[wikipedia:Joseph Kittinger|Joseph Kittinger]]. In 1961, he jumped from a helium balloon at 102,800 feet (31,300 m) and reached a TV of 618 MPH (994 km/h), or mach 0.9. Since Galactica is 2,000,000,000 times more massive than he was, the TV should be considerably larger. Of course not 2,000,000,000 because the Galactica's cross-sectional area is also far far greater and that's in the denominator so without actually numbers, I can't say for sure the balance of the 2. But I think the TV is going to be more in the range of 1000s rather than 100s of km/h. Again, a guess though. The "reentry shock" effect isn't a factor because the Galactica is skydiving. It's not a question of bringing the Galactica to a rest before jumping but more of a case of Galactica matching the velocity of New Caprica as all objects in space are in motion. Before Galactica jumped, my guess is that they measured the planets vectoral velocity through its orbit around the star and attempted to match it as close as possible before jumping to allow it to enter its atmosphere at a zero velocity relative to New Caprica which would give it the best chance of pulling off its manuever. But all motion through atmosphere causes heat, how much heat is the question. All aircraft travelling above the speed of sound experience some degree of air compressional superheating along their bows, not enough to cause fire, but heating none the less. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 14:12, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

:I'm back. First, I apologize if removing all the tab-tab-tab-tabbing throws anyone off, but it was wasting a lot of room so I replaced each tab depth with a line of whitespace and two alternating tab depths. So, here's what I did:
#Determine size, displacement, and then determined density of ''[[wikipedia:Akula class submarine|Akula]]''-class submarine, the world's largest. It worked out to be 994 kg/m3, with a full load.
#Determined far larger volume of a [[Mercury class battlestar]], using its specified dimensions. Alright, here's the first big overestimate: I used the same density for the Battlestar as for the sub. The density of the sub ought to be far higher than that of the Battlestar, ''because I used the maximum distance of each dimension, as if the battlestar was a rectangular prism.'' Clearly, it's not, so this will give us an overestimated, and thus, safer, result. Using the same mass, which, as I said, is far higher probably than it should, the mass of ''Galactica'' becomes ...within a significant digit or two of... 140,000,000,000 kg.
#Now to the equation: TV = Sqrt( (2 * mass * gravity) / (coefficient of friction * cross section * density of air) )
:*2 is 2. Easy
:*mass is 1.4 x 10^11, as above
:*gravity....a bit of research indicates that it only lowers slightly, with it at 9.8 where we live, and 9.7 at the fringes of what is generally considered to be the atmosphere. I'll go with 9.75...minor flub.
:*coefficient of friction is hard....it is normally determined experimentally with a wind tunnel, but there are some computer programs that can do it for you, if you have the time, expertise, and precision. On the other hand, the battlestar as shown was kind of like a flat disc falling flat on its face, which has a coefficient of 1.3. Works for me. FYI, airplanes usually are in the .05 to .2 range, cars in .2 to .4, a smooth curved surface at 1. They don't really list a lot of things over 1.3, though...not worth flying I guess.
:*cross section. multipy length times width from specifications. 784770 m^2. Easy
:*atmospheric density. It's like 1.3 kg/m^3 near sea level, and is somewhat less than 1 high up. 1 sounds fine for me. We're just hoping within a significant digit, after all.
:4. Put all the numbers in the formula. Now, before the answer comes, remember that this is a right rectangular prism with a density matching that of a Russian submarine, and thus weighs probably 4-8 times what it ought, and that the friction is different in who knows what ways...my cheap estimates put the "block Battlestar" hitting a maximum velocity of '''1635 m/s, or 1.6 km/s, or 3,657 mph...JUST UNDER MACH 5''' (at sea level). Yikes! Given all the overestimating, I'd round it down to mach 4, maybe 3.5, who knows? Either way, who wants to put money on something built for combat damage to accept heat/turbulance stress at that eventual speed? I'm sold on them carefully match the rotation of the planet as suggested above...but I really don't have the time right now to determine how long it would take or what distance would be covered while reaching that speed (the air resistance really throws off those high-school equations). I've hit the edge of my grasping at this. Hope this has been entertainin and maybe not too uneducational. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 18:26, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::Keithustus, that was very beautiful, I have to hand it to you. Wonderful! That must of taken you a little bit of time to come up with all those numbers. I'm looking it over and I like how you given leaway for error and I will take that TV of Sealevel Mach 4 to 5. It's about an imaginary spacecraft so we can make our own assumptions. So with this TV, we can now determine heat energy released by superheating friction with the atmosphere and that's another set of equations.....--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 19:19, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Or we could assume that FTL travel superheats the hull of a ship, and that caused the effect. Makes it much easier to swallow. [[User:Maserati1945|Maserati1945]] 08:36, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Ok, I've solved this once and for all. First, its likely that Galactica was moving with some velocity when it jumped, so this velocity was maintained after the jump as previous jumps with Raptors prove that velocity is maintained. Add to that the increase of acceleration that started as soon as Galactica finished the jump. When the major said "altitude 99,000, falling like a rock", he was probably referring to meters, and not feet. So more like 328,000 feet, give or take, or 62 miles, meaning that Galactica was above the theshold of what we call space here on Earth. Like the suborbital Mercury craft, Galactica experienced superheating on its underside because it was in fact passing through the atmosphere of New Caprica. The reason it looked like it was so much lower was because the ship is nearly a frakking mile (1.6 frakking kilometers) long. [[User:Maserati1945|Maserati1945]] 17:05, 09 November 2006 (CDT)

It might be worth noting that Tyrol and Tigh were looking in different directions as Galactica Belly Flopped, and neither were looking in the direction where galactica was. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 11:19, 15 February 2007 (CST)

==A New Piece of Information About Galactica==
It seems like everyones talking about what Galactica's TV may or may not be, but to me the more interesting piece of information we can learn from the battle is that apparently, Galactica isn't designed to land on a planet's surface. Firstly, it lacks any sort of vertical thrusters, secondly, its surface seemed to not respond well to the head of re-entry, thirdly, Galactica has no apparent landing struts or similar devices. Also, we learn that many of the ships in the colonial fleet CAN land. Well actually we learned this earlier in LDYB, but now we also learn that they can take off. From all of this we can infer that Galactica was built, or at least assembled entirely in space, where it is born, lives, fights, and dies. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 15:14, 3 November 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Antagonist. It's not entirely new information; Gaeta alludes to this when Adama suggests going to Kobol himself, thinking that Adama meant taking the battlestar intraatmosphere ([[Home, Part II]]). I can't think of where any stats of the ship ever said it was a true spaceship, however, these also are not new; the remnants of the Fleet orbiting [[New Caprica]] in [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]] also apparently lacked landing ability. Yes, it's most likely that all battlestars are forever spaceborne. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:44, 3 November 2006 (EST)

==Galactica Battle Scars==
Is it just me but I have seen that the hull of Galactica looks almost black from the battle. There was a shot of the ship passing by that had a great view of the damage. --[[User:Bowersj8|Bowersj8]] 11:14, 8 November 2006 (EDT)

==Material Losses==
When the screen cuts from Lee leaving the CIC, it shows Pegasus going up to colide with the one Basestar, but in the background is the 3rd Basestar and I noticed it had two noticeable "flaming" spots on one of each of its topside and bottomside "points" and as far as we know, it was the only surviving Basestar of the four. This might classify moderate damage to a Basestar, but (just to clarify) is this worth putting in the Battle Data (Moderate damage to 1 Basestar)? [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 06:18, 2 December 2006 (CST)
: I do not see any evidence 3 basestars were lost, only two during Pegasus' final run. a 3rd received moderate damaged (pegasus passed it during the final run) and the 4th (pegasus' opening volley) appears to have been routed from the battlefield by pegasus' destruction, but it appears on dradis screens at points after the opening volley, so I would say, not destroyed. As what we saw was not consistent with the destruction or crippling of basestars we've seen in resurrection ship, captain's hand, and torn. I'm inclined to say material losses was 2 basestars lost, 1 crippled and routed, 1 moderately damaged. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 11:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)

:where does your third basestar go? we see Pegasus hit one with its forward batteries but it isnt a confirmed kill as it definetly appears on DRADIS in the next scene only 2 Basestars are confirmed kills in this fight Too many people seem to assume the ship that takes the initial volley dies or suffers extensive damage yet we see Battlestars shrug off this kind of damage all the time with minimum effect. for example Pegasus is under bombardment from at a minimum 3 basestars and in all likelyhood 4 along with whatever the raiders can do for at least aslong as it takes for CMDR Adama to get between CIC and the escape Raptors {{unsigned|Furrygophe}}

::Good analysis, Azselendor. If you can note the timestamps of where you see the basestar sources if called upon by other contributors, then it's worthy to update the article to your observations. --15:16, 15 February 2007 (CST)

::: All I need to do is get the episode in high def and I can confirm the damages, because I think I spotted the 4th basestar partially obscured by another one. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 10:57, 26 February 2007 (CST)

::::Actually, I was rewatching the episode earlier. AVI, not the best of quality, but I make do and I've got some experience watching for little technical details. If you look really carefully at that first basestar Pegasus hits, it looks like the hull begins to undergo considerable warping during the explosions. I'm pretty sure I saw at least one of the prongs on the basestar move, slowly angling away from the rest of the ship. Since Pegasus looked like it was targeting the central axis of that basestar, this implies one of the basestar's prongs was completely decapitated, or at least structurall compromised. Since a basestar is what, 70% prongs? I'd say that if one of the prongs was indeed severed near its root, it would constitute massive damage. Could the Pegasus do such damage with only 4 hits? Maybe, there's always the chance she rolled a 20 and scored a critical. And well, she is THE Pegasus. Interestingly enough, if you watch the 4th hit on the basestar, you'll see that it seems to cause an explosion on impact, but it then proceeds continue on and pass THROUGH the basestar. Maybe Pegy was throwing some penetrators along with the high explosives? Who knows? Plus, she was charging straight at that particular basestar, her velocity would've been positively imparted to her shots. Why didn't we see such a damaged basestar later? Well, it's not like the CG people never screws up, either way. Maybe it was the opposite, and they over did the damage effects from the initial volley against the basestar. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 13:55, 26 February 2007 (CST)

==Media Wiki Error?==

Okay, i just uploaded a new version of the photo that was being used before, but now, for some reason, 'BONC.jpg' no longer exists, although its DEFINITELY there on the media wiki. Grrr - i much prefer the old days before there were two separate sites. Can someone fix this? --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 06:18, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Never mind! All fixed :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 06:20, 28 January 2007 (CST)

Hero

2006-12-01T21:13:41Z

David Templar: /* Questions */ More questions

{{cleanup}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]].''

== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third Raider, damaged by Cylon gunfire. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, [[Admiral Adama]] orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing, from the Raider, a familiar human voice and callsign: [[Bulldog]].
* In the hangar bay, Adama and the party are surprised that a human has exited the Raider. A visibly weak Daniel Novacek salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.
* Over a meal (noodles eaten with chopsticks) Adama asks Novachek how he escaped. He relates a story of plague on the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] and escaping after killing a [[Number Three]] with a blow to the nose delivered through the cell bars.
* Bulldog is debriefed by the [[Laura Roslin|President]] with Adama present, where they tell a (decidedly shaky) story of a mining facility too close to the Armistice Line. When the briefing ends, Roslin immediately questions Adama's story. He replies that it is "his mess" and that he resolve it. After she leaves, Adama kicks over a table in frustration.
* Novachek sees [[Saul Tigh]] in his quarters shortly after Adama talks to him. Tigh informs Novacek that Adama (aboard battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]'') ordered Novachek shot down to get rid of evidence of their incursion into Cylon space.
*Meanwhile, Adama confesses the mission's actual specifics to his son, [[Lee Adama|Lee]], and his belief that he provoked the Cylon attacks on the Colonies. Aghast at first, Lee Adama tries to console his father, blaming the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Fleet Admiralty]], saying that he was "only one man." Adama responds, "It only takes one."
* [[Kara Thrace]] reviews their Viper's gun film from the fight with the Cylon Raiders and realizes that the Cylons were deliberately missing their target, letting Bulldog get away. She goes to Saul Tigh with this information, who deduces that Bulldog was sent there by the Cylons to kill the admiral.
* Tigh finds Novacek in the process of killing Adama and stops him. Bulldog has flashbacks to being let out of his cell.
* Later, Adama presents his resignation to Roslin. Bemused, she refuses to accept it, and points out that the Admiralty may have been trying to provoke a war, and that he cannot shoulder the entire responsiblity for the holocaust on his shoulders. She then tells him that his penance will be to accept a [[Medal of Distinction]] for his long years of service, and to be a hero, a trait badly needed for the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet's morale]].
* After sending Novacek off to a berthing on another ship with a uniform, Tigh and Adama sit down for a drink in the admiral's quarters to discuss what happened to [[Ellen Tigh]] on [[New Caprica]].

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled "End of Line." The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room, Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica Six asks if the dreams are about Baltar. Three indicates otherwise, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a [[Cylon Centurion]] orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The Centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a [[Cylon rebirthing tank]] where a Three, Five, Six, and Eight help her recover. The downloaded Three tells her counterpart, "There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death."

== Questions ==
*Were the Admiralty's fears valid, or was the Cylon force that destroyed the Colonies built up just since that mission?
*Did Bulldog know of or see other human prisoners during his three years of captivity?
*How was Bulldog directed to the precise location of the fleet?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would a "Stealth Ship" in enemy territory break radio silence and use active [[DRADIS]]?
*How was the ''[[Valkyrie]]'' able to track, target and engage a stealth ship?
*Why did the Colonial military need send a ship across the [[Armistice Line]] to do recon, when the ''[[Valkyrie]]'' was able to monitor the space beyond the line via [[DRADIS]]?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Just what exactly was the "Unknown" craft that jumped near Stealth-Star, disabled it, and then jumped away? Whose was it? Where did it come from?
*Who were the five white-robed figures [[Three]] saw in her vision before downloading? Are they related to the Original Series's [[Beings of Light]]? Could they represent the mysterious "Final Five" Cylons?
*Were the Cylons on the baseship where Bulldog was held actually sick?
*Does Bulldog have information regarding the other humanoid Cylon models that nothing is known of?
*How did Baltar's status change from torturee in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" to an apparent sexual relationship with [[Caprica Six]] and [[Number Three]]?
* Was Adama's whole command staff transferred from the ''[[Valkyrie]] ''to ''[[Galactica]]'' after the failure of the recon mission?
*Why did Number three go through all the trouble to program the Centurion to erase its memory once it shot her? Was she afraid of being 'boxed' by the other Cylons for reasons of insanity or because it would do some sort of damage on the Centurion once its processed the kill?
*If Adama was truly responsible for the destruction of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], was this why the Cylons assigned numerous [[Cylon agent]]s to ''Galactica'' at the time of the attack ([[Sharon Valerii]] and [[Aaron Doral]])? Is this also the reason why [[Leoben Conoy]] was on [[Ragnar Anchorage|Ragnar]] when ''Galactica'' arrived there?
*If the flashback where [[Bulldog]] kills a copy of [[Number Three]] is true, then does that mean that the virus first shown in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" is even more widespread amongst the Cylons?

== Analysis ==
*Adama and Roslin know each other well enough by now to tell when the other is lying, or is not fooled by a lie, even when others around can't. Roslin has always been the better of the two in this ability, as early as revealing Adama's initial ruse about the location of [[Earth]] ([[Miniseries]]).
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series. Also, they explain his near-monomania with safeguarding and/or rescuing those under his command or protection.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy The [[Stealth Star]] that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
**It is only speculation that the Blackbird's stealth capabilities were less effective than those of the Stealth Star. The reason that the Blackbird went undetected by the Cylons is that its hull, at Helo's suggestion, was made of carbon composite. There is no way of knowing whether or not this was true of the Stealth Star.
***In addition, the Cylons near the [[Armistice Line]] would have known to look for stealth ships, as they probably suspected that the Colonial fleet would try to gain intel on Cylon military status. After the destruction of the colonies, it is unlikely that the Cylons believed that the Colonials were still in possession of any kind of stealth fighter and would not attempt to detect one.
***The fact that the Cylons expected penetration by stealth ships suggests that they may have done their share of Armistice Line violation.
****We know that the cylons violated the armistice line (assuming the treaty wasn't one-sided); there were cylon agents buzzing around the colonies at that time. The Colonial intent was to provoke the cylons; sending a stealth ship wouldn't do that. Notice that Bulldog had open comm channels and an active DRADIS during the sequence; this would have made the stealth ship visible to the Cylons. Presumably, they intended to be seen, but at the first sign of trouble, go silent.
**Bulldog was communicating to the Valkyrie before being attacked. The Cylons may have been able to detect this radiation and fire at the source of it.
**It is possible that the [[Stealth Star]] had a transponder beacon which allowed the [[Valkyrie]] to track and target it, whereas the [[Blackbird]] most likely did not have a transponder installed at time of its first flight.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a [[Raider]] and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
**As the episode implies that Bulldog was deliberately released by the Cylons in an effort to direct his anger towards Adama, it is possible that the Cylons allowed Bulldog to gain a working knowledge of the raider.
*Bulldog probably could have stolen a Heavy Raider, which unlike the light versions seems to have a crew compartment and perhaps piloting controls, but then the production crew couldn't have re-used the captured-Raider prop from "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" on the flight deck set.
*Kara Thrace going to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time.
*The last two scenes of "Hero" appear to have been edited to ensure that the final scene was with Adama and Tigh. Right after the celebration scene, Adama is seen giving Bulldog a new uniform, but Adama is wearing his everyday uniform. In the final scene with Tigh, Adama is wearing his dress grays from the celebration. It appears at the very least, the two scenes were in reverse order, meaning the episode originally ended with Adama giving Bulldog his new uniform.
*During her experience between death and rebirth, Three finds herself reliving a series of memories from her various lives, including a shot of her in a theater on Caprica in "[[Final Cut]]", her final moments during "[[Downloaded]]", and her discovery of Hera on New Caprica in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". She also has a vision of another kind: the opera house seen by Baltar during the final moments of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
**This sequence, as well as this episode as a whole, showcases a number of fundamental BSG leitmotivs that have had little to no exposure in their original form since the end of season one/beginning of season two. The sound, as well as the imagery, reminds us that we've seen the opera house before, and the associated musical themes will likely help elucidate the symbolism behind the two visions.
*Three's flashbacks after being shot by the centurion indicate that she is the same individual who was killed on Caprica by [[Caprica-Six]] in "[[Downloaded]]" and who found Hera in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". It is of course possible that some of these recollections are the result of memory-sharing rather than direct experience.
**If she is the same Three that died on Caprica, that leaves the question how it can be that she didn't get the Opera House experience on her first death, even though she was stuck in limbo for thirty-six hours because of the massive casualties at the cafe in [[Downloaded]]. It is plausible that this Three wanted to die because she'd never experienced death before.
***It is also plausible that God is only just now trying to tell her something. The opera house may act as a cue, a signal sent from God that facilitates reflection on one's own destiny at a pivotal point in their existence, when it is no longer acceptable to ignore their role in God's plan out of arrogance or inconvenience (Baltar, "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" ), or because it seems a contradiction of the identity they'd formed by refusing to question their fate (Three, from the final days of the Occupation through "Hero"). In both cases, the opera house is revealed to a soul straddling the line between life and death, both in a physical and spiritual sense, and it is perhaps this balance that can uniquely invoke the presence of God, and guide the chosen instruments towards their intended destiny.
****It is interesting to note the central role Hera plays in both of the visions that bring us to the opera house.
*There's at least [[Stoffa|one other doctor]] of some kind in the fleet, because Cottle instructs Bulldog to report to him.
**This doctor is probably a psychotherapist that specializes in some sort of mental trauma issues. Considering that Bulldog was in captivity for such a long time, and his breakdown while attacking Adama, at the very least, Bulldog will need a counselor to help him work through all of the emotional and mental scars that he's endured. Cottle had already confirmed that Bulldog was generally well cared for, physically, by the Cylons.
**A psychotherapist is still, after a fashion, a medical professional. It is interesting that, after all the fuss about Cottle being the only doctor in the Fleet, suddenly mention is made of this other doctor.
***This medical professional could be a [[Wikipedia:Psychologist|clinical psychologist]], a person who provides mental health care and may possess a Ph.D., but is not a medical doctor capable of physically treating patients or prescribing medication. This description better fits the post-traumatic stress Novacek likely suffered in captivity.
*Based on the Raider's apparently staged attack, the Cylons appear to know the current location of the Fleet.

== Notes ==
*Laura Roslin reviews a [[:Image:Dossier.png |dossier]] prepared for her by [[Billy Keikeya|Billy]] on her first day aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. It includes large photos of battlestar ''Galactica'', a photograph of the CIC crew of ''[[Valkyrie]]'', a (mostly illegible) certificate bearing [[Saul Tigh]]'s name, and a cursory biography of William Adama. This biographical information as been intergrated into [[William Adama]] article. Also, analysis of Colonial dates used in the dossier can be found in the [[Timeline %28RDM%29#Analysis of Colonial Dates |Timeline (RDM)]] article.

*In Adama's flashback, the admirals are wearing their decorations on their day uniforms. This contrasts with most Colonial Fleet officers shown thus far, who only wear their decorations on their dress uniform sash.

*Both [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Sharon Agathon]] appear in this episode, but neither has any lines.

*In Number Three's dream, the door at which she is shot by the marines is labeled "End of Line". As well as being a metaphor for death, this is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]]. "End of Line" is a also a reference to the movie "Tron" and could also be a computer/programming reference.

*This episode shares some plot elements with the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode, "[[MemoryAlpha:The Defector|The Defector]]," written by Moore. Notably, it begins with a dramatic chase delivering a dubious ally into friendly hands that is later shown to be staged. Additionally, both episodes feature plots revolving around a contested border.

* For the episode, [[Bear McCreary]] created a musical theme for Novacek, called "Novacek's Theme", which was "very much inspired by [[w:Alfred Hitchcock|Hitchcock]]'s collaborations with composer [[w:Bernard Herrmann|Bernard Herrmann]]". <ref name="bear_mccreary">{{cite_web|url=http://www.bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm|title="Hero"|date=17 November 2006|accessdate=25 November 2006|last=McCreary|first=Bear|format=blog|language=English}}</ref>

*Admiral William Adama names Major Lee Adama to succeed him as commander of ''Galactica'' in his [[:Image:3x8-Hero-ResignationLetter.jpg | resignation letter]].

*In her vision of the Opera house, Three briefly glimpses five white figures. In his [[Podcast:Hero|Podcast]] for this episode, Moore implies that these correspond to the final five Cylon models.

*Galactica is in possession of another [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Speaking to another Number Three after downloading:''
:'''Number Three''': There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death.

*''Bulldog calls on Saul Tigh at Saul's quarters:
:'''Tigh''': So ... drink?
:'''Bulldog''': You have no idea!
:'''Tigh''' (scowling, unseen): Yes, I do.

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>
*[[Bear McCreary]] discusses writing "Noavcek's Theme" on his web blog:
*: In general, I only write thematic material for characters who matter in the grand scheme of the series, in hopes that the character will return at a later point in the story. In rare cases I make an exception in order to give a guest star a particularly resonant musical voice. For example, [[Bill Duke]]'s [[Phelan]] from [[Season 2 (2005-06)|season two]]'s [[Black Market]] required his own theme, since all the events of the episode led up to his eventual stand-off with [[Lee Adama|Lee]].
*:
*:Hero was obviously another such case. Novacek's mysterious past drives nearly every scene in the entire show, and it was clear he required his own theme as well.<ref name="bear_mccreary"/>

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
* [[imdb:nm0461101|Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (credited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Mercury class battlestar

2006-05-15T16:15:36Z

David Templar: Spelling mistakes

:''For the unnamed original class, to which ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' belongs, see [[Galactica type battlestar]].''
{{Ship Data|
image= BSPegasus.jpg
| title= ''Mercury'' class battlestar
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Unknown (at least 2,450)
| co=
| xo=
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Primary and point-defense [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Active
| img=
}}

==Overview==
Following the end of the [[Cylon War]], the [[Galactica type battlestar|original battlestars]] remained in service as other battlestars were built. Their numbers steadily increased to a grand total of 120 ships in the Colonial Fleet. New models employed technologies, such as networked computers, which had been prohibited during the war ([[Miniseries]]). A ''Mercury'' class battlestar therefore sports several features not found aboard ''Galactica'' such as automated sliding doorways and basic computer recognition stations at vital areas. At the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], a ''Mercury'' class battlestar was a top-of-the-line craft.

The physical appearance of the ''Mercury'' class is different than that of the original battlestar. The "neck" section is smaller, and the ''Mercury'' class is equipped with eight [[sublight]] engine pods, compared the older class's four. These are also more "boxy" in appearance than those of the original. The [[flight pod]]s also appear to have two entrances each, above and below the mid-line. Combined with computer assisted landing, this gives the ''Mercury'' class a faster rate of Viper recovery than ''[[Galactica]]''. Unlike ''Galactica'', ''Pegasus'' appears to have a full armor "skin", but in ''Galactica's'' case this may have been deliberately removed prior to its scheduled decommissioning.

The gun batteries on the ''Mercury'' class are arranged very differently from ''Galactica's''. Where as ''Galactica's'' large guns are clustered along her top side, with secondary batteries concentrated along the flight pods, the guns of the ''Mercury'' class are found all over the ship ([[The Captain's Hand]]). The greatest concentration of large turrets are found along the side of the ship, within the valley created by the upper and lower halves of the hull, including the flight pods. Four are mounted on the underside of the upper hull on the ship's bow, below which sits four non-turreted large guns; these form the main forward batteries. Two more turrets are mounted on the front and back of each flight pod. The ''Mercury'' class's secondary guns are distributed all over the ship and do not clearly emerge from the hull like ''Galactica's''.

[[Image:Pegasus01.jpg|right|thumb|''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' from fore and below, with the Fleet in the background]] [[Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_1a.jpg|right|thumb|[[Viper (RDM)|Mark VII Vipers]] landing in ''Pegasus''' port flight pod]]
[[Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_5a.jpg|right|thumb|Some of ''Pegasus''' [[Kinetic Energy Weapon|batteries]]]]
[[Image:Pegasus-Comparison.png|right|thumb|Comparison of [[Battlestar (TOS)|original series battlestar]] and ''Mercury'' class]]
The '''''Mercury'' class battlestar''' is an advanced warship introduced into the [[Colonial Fleet]] sometime after the First [[Cylon War]].

Based on figures from the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", the standard crew complement of a ''Mercury'' class battlestar is in excess of 2,500.

In addition to having better armament and weapons than ''[[Galactica]]'', the ''Mercury'' class battlestar has production facilities to build new [[Viper (RDM)|Viper Mark VIIs]] from basic resources ([[Scar]]).

Unlike ''Galactica'', which must retract her flight pods to execute a [[FTL|Jump]], the ''Mercury'' class battlestar's flight pods appear fixed in place and do not retract during a Jump ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

== Known ''Mercury'' class Battlestars ==
*Battlestar ''[[Mercury]]'' (for which it is presumed the class is named)
*Battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''

== Notes ==
The shape of the ''Mercury'' class resembles the [[TOS|original series]] [[battlestar (TOS)|battlestar]] more than the re-imagined ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. Its engine pods number eight, compared to ''Galactica'''s six engine pods. The pods aboard the ''Mercury'' class battlestar appear more directly integrated with its rear section, and its flight pods share the original angular shape.

The visual effects artist of the re-imagined ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', Jose A. Perez, has commented that, "The new design was somewhat of a cross between the look of the [[TOS|old class]] [[battlestar (TOS)|battlestars]], and yet with elements of the [[Galactica (RDM)|new one]]. Aside from that, it has mostly hull plating (to absorb more damage) , as opposed to the ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' which has more ribbing."
Mr. Perez also commented that, "The harder edges [ of the [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus'']] ] were intentional as well, to match the interior style of the sets more." {{source}}

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]] [[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category:Technology]] [[Category:Battlestars|*]]

{{sourcebox}}

[[es:Battlestar clase Mercury]]

Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad

2006-05-08T03:56:24Z

David Templar: /* Support */ Vote'd

*[[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01|Archive 1 (September 29th, 2005 to Present)]]:

:[[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#Citation Consistency|Citation Consistency]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#Request for name change|Request for name change]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#BSG: The Magazine|BSG: The Magazine]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#Citation Format|Citation Format]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#Character Ages|Character Ages]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#Railguns|Railguns]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#Twelve Lords of Kobol|Twelve Lords of Kobol]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#Magazine Content|Magazine Content]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#To Do|To Do]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#BSG Books|BSG Books]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad/Archive01#Sources namespace|Sources namespace]]


==Koenigrules / Hollywood North Report==
"Koenigrules" (KR) is the alias of Jim Iaccino, a popular reporter of BSG spoilers, whose reports are often cited and reposted by other sources. [http://lvpodcasts.autopodcaster.com/download.php?filename=Subject_2_Discussion_04_11_2006.mp3/Subject_2_Discussion_04_11_2006.mp3 Recent comments] made on the "[http://www.subject2discussion.com/ Subject 2 Discussion]" segment of the "[http://www.lvrocks.com/ LV Rocks]" radio program (transcribed at [[Sources:Subject 2 Discussion, 11 April 2006]]) raised the possibility that KR is merely re-reporting publically available information, and does not appear to be a credible primary source.

[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] investigated this possibility, and posted his findings to [[Talk:Precipice#Question about Koenigrules]]. [[User:Peter Farago|I]] raised the possibility of instating a policy against citing KR's reports as credible sources on Battlestar Wiki, which was seconded by [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]].

Consequently, I am opening a formal vote here on the matter. Please review [[Sources:Subject 2 Discussion, 11 April 2006]], its putative [http://www.nowcasting.com/sides/Episodic/BATTLESTAR%20GALACTICA/301%20Occupation/Selloi_Dedona_4pgs.pdf source material], and The Merovingian's comments on [[Talk:Precipice#Question about Koenigrules]] prior to casting your vote, and feel free to raise any questions below. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:18, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

'''Update:''' Koenigrules has responded to a number of our concerns via e-mail. You can read my correspondence with him at [[Sources:Correspondence with Jim Iaccino]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:36, 23 April 2006 (CDT)

'''Update 2:''' I will be transcribing KR's appearance on tonight's Subject 2 Discussion either later tonight or early tomorrow, and offer my considered opinion afterwards. I may request that the current "blacklist" vote be closed and recast as a more general discussion on the appropriateness of anonymous sources at battlestar wiki. Rebuttals will be welcome. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:05, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

'''Update 3:''' KR's latest appearance has been transcribed to [[Sources:Subject 2 Discussion, 25 April 2006]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:45, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

'''Update 4:''' My final opinion is available at [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad#From Peter]]. I have changed my vote to "Oppose" and have supported Joe's suggestion of closing this vote and moving the topic of discussion to the appropriateness of anonymous sources. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:25, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

'''Update 5:''' This poll was closed by Joe on May 2, 2006, in favor of "The Rumor Vote" below. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:27, 3 May 2006 (CDT)

===Blacklist Vote===

====In favor of a policy against citing KR as a primary source====
*<del>[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 23:36, 19 April 2006 (CDT) - I feel like this guy betrayed us. And it's getting worse; 4-5 news sites report things he says as fact; he is not helping at all. Dogger said: "''He often fails to differentiate what he is reporting from his own speculation, an oversight compounded by the fact that his speculation is hampered by a lack of attention to detail.''"-->He put that more clearly than I could. Way to go Dogger. :)</del>
*<del>[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:11, 20 April 2006 (CDT) If he originates nothing, we lose nothing by not citing him.</del>
*<strike>[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:34, 20 April 2006 (CDT) - We do NOT claim to be a primary source here, and everything that is stated as fact should be citable elsewhere. Our sources are therefore our foundation, so they should be held to a high standard.</strike>
#[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:30, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
#[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:21, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
#[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 03:16, 21 April 2006 (CDT) I'm against the publication of anything except the facts.
# [[User:Mazzy|Mazzy]] 17:12, 21 April 2006 (CDT) This is site is a reference, it would be misleading to publish anything other than citable information. I would vote the same no matter who we were talking about and spoilers without a named source seem to be a chance of forever cataloging misinformation. If this were a vote about sources and not a person I would be more comfortable but as it stands, I don't feel I can change my vote in good faith. I think spoilers except ones coming directly from writers or cast should be left off all together. If there is a more appropriate way for me to express this than this vote, I will consider changing it if not this is my input.-- [[User:Mazzy|Mazzy]] 12:00, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
#[[User:AerynSun44|AerynSun44]] 17:15, 21 April 2006 (CDT) I must concur. Too much flotsam.
#*[[User:Dogger|Dogger]] 20:38, 21 April 2006 (CDT) <del>I've never heard KR 'reveal' anything that I haven't already seen from another source. I have always seen him as just somebody who reads the same things I read and then repeats them in another venue, but with an extra helping of certainty.</del> He often fails to differentiate what he is reporting from his own speculation, an oversight compounded by the fact that his speculation is hampered by a lack of attention to detail. <del>Perhaps what he does might have some value as a 'digest' of what is being talked about, but I don't see why anyone but the most naive listener would consider him as a primary source.</del>
#*I have struck out parts of my comments that seem to have been proven wrong by some of the history presented in the thread on Skiffy. However, I cannot in good conscience change my vote because of the simple fact that I don't think that anyone claiming an anonymous source should really be considered a primary source, even if that source is genuine. Perhaps 'blacklist' is the wrong word. I simply see this as a test case for what is the appropriate kind of evidence that should be cited as authoritative. Singling out KR is probably unfair, but that doesn't change what I honestly think to be not an appropriate primary source for a wiki. If there were a vote to have a policy against citing any anonymous source as a primary source, then I would be in favour of that too. I consider this vote to be just an example of what I think should be an overall principle. For example, if KR were to name his source, then I don't see any reason not to consider citing that information. The problem I have is not with KR's honesty in particular -- it's with the idea of citing a source without giving the reader the benefit of evaluating its reliability, and that includes anonymity as well as the mixing of facts with speculation.--[[User:Dogger|Dogger]] 19:36, 23 April 2006 (CDT)
#*<del>[[User:Gouge|Frankie Gouge]] 02:20, 22 April 2006 (EDT) Credibility is too hard to earn to risk needlessly. Plenty of other sites to get speculative spoilers. </del>
#[[User:Bowersj8|Bowersj8]] 14:31, 22 April 2006 (EDT)
#[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:40, 25 April 2006 (CDT) I listened enough to the radio show. (All Annoymous Sources too...)

====Opposed====
#[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:21, 23 April 2006 (CDT)
#[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:41, 26 April 2006 (CDT) Individual blacklisting is not appropriate for this case.
#[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 13:49, 26 April 2006 (CDT) It seems he does originate things after all.
#[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:09, 26 April 2006 (CDT) Let's not single out KR on the issue, but we do need to address the issue of anonymous sources (see below).
#[[User:Adedward|Adedward]] 23:28, 28 April 2006 (CDT)
#[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:06, 2 May 2006 (CDT) - This discussion kind of evolved into the more generic discussion about anonymous sources in general, and I no longer support a ban on KR specifically. I think we already said it had changed and stuff last week, but I forgot to formally change my vote.

====Abstain====
#[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 07:33, 23 April 2006 (CDT) Changed to abstain because I don't feel I know enough about this issue to choose either way.
#[[User:Quig|Quig]] 10:09, 23 April 2006 (CDT)
#[[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 08:53, 20 April 2006 (CDT) After reading the unfortunate thread on the Skiffy board and the dialgoue established between Peter and KR, I will abstain until I determine whether or not this whole thing was worth the heartache for all concerned.
#[[User:Gouge|Frankie Gouge]] 16:05, 24 April 2006 (EDT)
#[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:58, 26 April 2006 (EST)

===Motion by The Merovingian===
While KoenigRules and several of his collleagues insist that he does indeed have access to some sort of spoilers, all of them still will not confirm the veracity of these sources. Seeing as this is what they would do both if they were REAL and if they were NOT REAL sources, we thus arrive at an impasse. Therefore, I want to find some civil compromise over this: I'm a Uniter, not a Divider, and if we start turning on each other Rick Berman's new crackpot scheme to make Star Trek XI: Starfleet Academy will eat us BSG fans alive. '''Proposal''': If KoenigRules promises to be more careful in the future in his interviews, to *'''make it clear'''* when he is giving away '''direct information from his source(s)''', and when he is making a '''speculation''' ''based'' on either this purported source material, ''or'' just his own personal '''opinion''', we will reverse our decision to hold a vote to reject him as a reliable source. For example, if KoenigRules says in an interview "I think Baltar is a Cylon", he should really make it clear that that is just his opinion and not supported by any spoiler source information that he might have, as news sites might miscontrue his comments and lead to a world of trouble. However, the matter of HollyWoodNorthReport itself, which has come under frequent attack from many sites for improperly forgetting to use citations when they source material from other fansites, should be considered a separate matter.

I hope we can all agree to this.

:I don't think this subissue needs a vote. Koenigrules has indicated to me that he'll be able to reply here by monday. If he can adequately address the concerns we've raised, then naturally, the above discussion will be re-evaluated in light of that. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:21, 23 April 2006 (CDT)

====Support====
#--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:48, 22 April 2006 (CDT)

====Oppose====

== On anonymous sources ==

In lieu of all this, I am thinking of further clarifying the section defining what sources we should and should not use on the wiki. In particular, sources that are anonymous should not be referenced (this is fairly common sense, but isn't explicitly stated0. Also, for reference, we should probably add a definitive list of sources, grouped by categories from "uses anonymous source" to "trusted primary sources". (We have a list such as this already on the Citation page, though it could be better defined in my mind. ) Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:49, 23 April 2006 (CDT)
:I agree (though I don't know how to set that up using wiki code).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:46, 23 April 2006 (CDT)
::We would set it up just like the "Image tagging policy" page. The only question is how do we define what is legit and what is not? If we consider how big the internet and how vast information can be found, anyone who reports on infomration at a regular basis could be considered legit, as long as the information is true. (i.e. Gateworld vs. HNR). This would also not benifit the little people. So I am not really a fan of this, but in light of the problem with spoilers vs. fact, this might be needed. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:02, 23 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Well it now seems likely that KR does indeed have a source: he's been heavily involved since the Miniseries, and was on the original nuBSG fan page. What threw me in all of this is that that site **no longer exists**, so when I was trying to fact check his credibility it didn't come up. He still cannot reveal his source without compromising it, so I think Joe's "annonymous source" spoiler tag idea might be best. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:41, 23 April 2006 (CDT)

::::I think anytime something can be better defined, it is a plus to the accuracy of the project. =)-- [[User:Mazzy|Mazzy]] 12:02, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Everyone I think this has been resolved after our contact with KoenigRules, and we should bring down the site notice on the Main Page that there's a vote going on regarding KR, as I think things have been resolved already and this would only confuse newcomers. KR seems entirely on the level to me now, and we should put this past and move on to other work. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:40, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

:Absolutely not. This remains an important issue. Tomorrow night, I will transcribe his appearance on S2D and offer my final opinion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:13, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

===From Peter===

Alright then. Having spoken with KR and listened to his latest podcast, the following is now clear to me:
*KR is not merely re-reporting information gleaned from other sources available to the public. The overlap between the information in the Selloi Dedona casting side and the report made on the 11th is remarkable, but the information he supplied on the 25th cannot be accounted for in light of other publicly available material.
*KR asserts that he has a single, anonymous source for all his reports.
*KR has complied with every request we've made of him, clearly separating his personal speculation from information supplied by his source.

It is therefore my opinion that he has done everything we can reasonably expect him to do, considering the anonymity of his source. I therefore believe that singling him out for blacklisting is inappropriate. I am changing my opinion on the above vote to "oppose", and I support Joe's desire to let the matter drop and refocus the discussion on the nature of our sources.

The [[Battlestar Wiki:Spoiler Policy|Spoiler Policy]], arrived at by grudging compromise last autumn, makes the following statement:

<blockquote>All spoiler information must have a source, whether in the form of a [[Wikipedia:URL|URL]] or a printed publication text, on the ''talk page'' of the spoilerific article. For printed publication text, a copy must be scanned and uploaded to the wiki in the form of a [[Wikipedia:JPG|JPG]] or [[Wikipedia:PNG|PNG]], and posted on the talk page of the article containing the spoilerific content.</blockquote>

Naturally, this arises from a desire for Battlestar Wiki to be a reliable source. The nature of a wiki allows anybody to contribute news and information, which must be checked by a policy such as this. It would obviously be unacceptable to allow anybody to pass off ungrounded speculation as reported fact, bolstered in reputation by dint of its presence on the wiki.

However, the very nature of spoiler reporting renders impossible the goal of maintaining perfect accuracy while reporting on episodes not scheduled to air for months to come. Even the very best sources we can hope to come by - legitimate casting sides and call sheets, for example - may refer to script elements that end up being cut from the final broadcast. Set reports may refer to scenes which are filmed but not included, or be reported out of context.

This is an inevitability to which we must resign ourselves if we intend to report on spoilers at all. However, it can be mitigated by requiring attribution to individual reporters. The real problem with KR's reports is the anonymity of his source. Casting sides and call sheets which arrive in their original format are unlikely to be forged, and set reports substantiated by photographic evidence, but all we have to go on with regard to KR is his good reputation.

I find it awkward to judge submissions here based on such a nebulous concept as the reporter's reputation, which is why my personal preference leans to reporting only information which can be backed up by tangible evidence or sourced to individuals involved in production. However, it should be acknowledged that by excluding anonymous reports such as KR's, we will be depriving ourselves of a prolific source of timely and apparently reasonably accurate information.

Because I consider this a real and important dilemma, I want to solicit comment form other users on the issue of anonymous sources. Particularly relevant questions:
*Should they be allowed at all?
*If so, should we discriminate between different sources on the basis of reputation?
*If so, how should reputation be determined, and who should be responsible for determining it?
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:22, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

: '''(Intro)''' First of all, I listened to the podcast live. There was quite a number of people in the chat channel inclduing myself. Along with KR, was merv, Ribby, and a few other people that were in the orginal flame war on SciFi.com.
: '''(Question 1)''' anonymous Spoliers are the worest. First of all, they are considered [[Wikipedia:Hearsay]] which means the context of the spolier or information can change and exaserations can be made by the reporter. '''(From the Podcast on Question #1)''' When I listened last night he said he took through notes on what his source said, to make sure he kept the information straight. Usually I have pretty good ears, but I didn't hear any paper's or him lean away from the phone.
: '''(Question 2)''' If gateworld to report this as a spolier, and like this podcast OR link even us as the source with US sourceing it as an annoymous source, [http://gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/04/secondandthirdepisodetitle.shtml Gateworld] did not list this current radio cast as the source for them knowning the new title. This page was posted a good few hours before the radio show. They have yet to cite or deem these current spoliers on the website.
: '''(Question 3)''' I can not answer this, because I think offical sites, offical news orginzations, are the best place. If this came from Katte's website, or Apollo's then I would be OMG, but it didn't. It came from a source that can not even verify if the spoliers are correct. Teasers are '''offical spoliers''', you can choose to watch them or not, but they are offical. RDM podcasts are offical, RDM blog. etc... etc..
: '''(Conclustion)''' If he was to go on the show stright till october, we would know all of Season 3 BEFORE it happened. For this, I voted to not allow KR be a source, even if another "anonymous" soruce, and only allow '''offical spoliers''' to be reported. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:45, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:I'm not that keen on using anonymous sources at all. I don't think it's realistic for us to be everything to everyone, and would rather see us strive to be the concise, accurate, organized repository of BSG knowledge (and let the new sites and forums handle the spoiler info). I could see maybe having a "news" pages with links to such spoilers, but actually putting content into the article that we have no way of verifying (and could prove to be false) seems like a stretch.
:Maybe there's a way for us to be able to "report" the information, without compromising our accuracy. We could, for example, limit spoiler postings to spoiler news areas (which nobody updates anyway), and obvious spoiler pages (like the next season, and upcoming episodes). People reading those pages '''expect''' spoiler information, as there is no canon information available yet. The important thing to keep in mind would be making sure that once the page passes out of the realm of spoilers into to normal article space (by having an airdate, etc), all normal citation requirements must apply. It is a double standard, but there's a clearly demarcated line that could be observed/enforced, and if the spoilers end up being false it only ends up affecting the temporal accuracy of that particular spoiler page, and not the long-term accuracy of the page once aired. I would still prefer not seeing any anonymous sources in the regular article space, though, as the maintenance issues involved would potentially leave false spoiler information in place after the event occurs.
:Also, I'd like to see the above vote closed (since the context since it's opening has changed quite dramatically). I'd rather not change my vote, I'd vote that way again given the same information, but "re-voting" based on the new information seems a bit of the Monday-morning quarterbacking ("I'd a double bagged it.")--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:47, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

::Spoilers are already quarantined into the episode guide pages; quarantining anonymous spoilers somewhere else seems excessive to me. I think we just need to decide one way or another. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:55, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I didn't realize that was the case. I think I was remembering character pages like [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Helena_Cain&oldid=23108 this] that had spoiler boxes, and it's hard to edit them without running into the spoilers. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:00, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm mistaken. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:02, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

Having read everything you guys said and listening to the last show, here's my thoughts:
I entirely agree with the three points about KR Peter said; he met our requests and was careful about saying "I guess" "that's what I think", etc., and he incorporated it into his interview smoothly (didn't stop in his tracks and say "everyone be warned this is just what I think, websites shouldn't etc etc etc) which was good for him, not affecting his interview drastically. I think that worked out well for everyone. Nextly, I am actually now quite possitive that '''he does indeed have some sort of spoiler source''', the exact nature of which is of course unknown, but still it is now clear to me that he isn't just basing all of his information on casting sides and public information, but has a source no one else does. The real problem, then, has changed: how do we address spoilers which are based on a reporter who has a ''reputation'' of providing on the whole accurate spoilers ''in the past'', and uses an ''anonymous source'' which nonetheless seems to be a "real" source?
:"Should they be allowed at all? If so, should we discriminate between different sources on the basis of reputation? If so, how should reputation be determined, and who should be responsible for determining it?"
This was an important set of questions Peter, and I think that a new subsection on our sources policy page should be openned up to discuss these questions raised in more detail. '''Further, I agree entirely with you and Joe's feelings that this vote here should be "wiped", singling out a single person would be inappropriate, that we should "let the matter drop and refocus the discussion on the nature of our sources."'''

KR's sources thus seem to ''generally'' be real and he's not just making things up, but that raises all sorts of questions; as said above, these sources tend to be based on early ideas or scripts and are subject to change even if the reports on them were truthfully saying what the production team ''thought'' they were going to do, or might be scenes that even get filmed, but ultimately deleted and possibly becoming deleted scenes that are in fact contradicted by scenes that appear in the final episode rendering them totally non-canonical; i.e. what if someone was on the set and saw the alternate cut of "Pegasus" where Boomer ''actually'' gets raped, then left the set and did not see that ''another'' take of this was filmed where she gets saved at the last minute?...this spoiler source would honestly report that they saw a scene where Boomer gets raped...however even though this scene was filmed, another scene was filmed which completely contradicted it and it is no longer real (as opposed to like, the deleted scenes such as when Roslin gets "Lest We Forget" from Billy in "33", which it appears CAN be thought of as more or less canonical and RDM said was only deleted for time reasons). So, the thing we really need to do is open '''another, more generic discussion on what to do about sources and spoilers'''.

My thoughts on the subject: Generally, we should keep spoiler information confined to news and season 3 pages; by it's very nature the season 3 page is right now filled with spoilers, and people going there are looking for them, and can see the spoiler sign on top. Also, *individual episode entries* for episodes that have not aired yet, such as "Occupation", are obviously going to contain spoilers and people go there to look for them, although even then *gigantic* spoilers should be in a highlighted spoiler-text box so you have to highlight ''specific'' plot information to see it. Once and a while there will be some exceptions where we ''can'' keep spoiler info on a character page, i.e. {{spoiltext|Number Three where Lucy Lawless says she'll be a character like God, and do this for a MAJOR 10 episode arc.}}

We should be very sparing about allowing spoiler info like this off of the upcoming season and news pages. ***Still, '''I think our current spoiler warning policy is more or less okay in turns of placement'''.

What we need to really focus on is tagging our sources.

{{spoiltext|I mean, Lucy Lawless said the above thing in ''an interview'' and thus it is okay to add to a page. However, KR's recent comments about what Starbuck is doing in various season 3 episodes should '''definately not be added to the Starbuck page until they are confirmed by production photos''', but still will appear on season 3, news, and season 3 episode pages. }}

Ultimately, I think we actually have to run KoenigRules' spoilers: Gateworld, Galaticastation, and most other Battlestar Galactica news sites all tend to run them within a few days. We'd be seen as less reliable about our info if someone could get better info from somewhere else. ***I think the best idea would be to '''run these annonymous source spoilers only *after* an official news site like Gateworld or Galacticastation has already run them''', like the day after they run them, we report that "Gateworld reported this story, it came from a radio interview which gave news from an anonymous source".

Sort of like the "Citation needed" tag, which appears in the article but as a little super-script? I think we need a new one of those which says "Information from an anonymous source, not confirmed" or something to that effect. Well those are just my early thoughts on the subject. Bottom line: ESSENTIALLY, KR does seem to have a real spoiler source, though he won't reveal it. We need to figure out how to handle anonymous sources like this. We should remove this vote as new information we've gotten has shed more light on the matter, and we should refocus this onto a more ''generic'' "who do we handle anonymous spoilers" discussion on our sources page. I agree with Farago and SteelViper. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:49, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
:Maybe you should wrap the actual spoiler content in the above in spoiler tags. I hadn't read some of that yet (and try to avoid it).--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:04, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:Merv writes: ''I think that a new subsection on our sources policy page should be openned up to discuss these questions raised in more detail.''
:The Citation Jihad ''is'' our sources policy page, and we're having that discussion right now. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:14, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

::I meant a new subheading. (I will find those spoiltexts SV...)--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:19, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
:::If we allow a spolier to be listed like this it would be moot to what we are. This is not even offical. Spoliers with cast memebers are offical. We become something we are not supposed to be. If I reported annoymously that I heard BSG Wiki was closing and it was annoymous source, it could be anyone, however int his case, Joe is the only one. So a reported would ask joe is BSG closing, or joe would see it and he would look to see who spread that rumor because the fact is not true. Just put yourself in RDM shoes. What would he say to the production staff. Please do not leak spoliers. Actors are bound by the [[Wikipedia:SAG]] contracts in which they why can't reveal sources otherwise they can be seriously fined. They do comment on the show and what their characeter does, but not the spolt details itself. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:31, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:::All spoilers should be sourced. If that source is anonymous, that should probably be specifically, explicitly noted, but I cannot see how it would hurt to include them if they are so marked. Each reader can then judge how much stock to put in an anonymous source individually, since it's a point on which reasonable people can differ. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 15:53, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:::: If you don't mind spoiler's read the two reports. One is from The [[Season 3 (2006-07)]] page and the other is from the new discussion.

{{spoiltext|According to Ron D. Moore's podcast of the Captain's Hand, Apollo will continue to be the Commander of the Pegasus well into Season 3.}}
This goes totally against
{{spoiltext|

KR: It's not— I don't think you're going to have a Galactica spinoff

SO: Uh oh. Well, I mean, they could've done a spinoff with the Pegasus if they'd wanted to, they could've done some other things, but I mean even that as fan fiction—

KR: Did you say "Pegasus"?

SO: Uh oh.

KR: Did you say "Pegasus"? Episode 303.

SO: Uh oh.

KR: Pegasus is destroyed.

SO: Oh no, you're kidding me! Who's on it when it gets destroyed?

KR: Don't know. But it is sent— my source says it is sent on a collision course to a Cylon base ship so that the Galactica can get away.

}}
Goes totally against an offical spoiler. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:13, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
:Possiblities: (1) Plans have changed since RDM made that podcast, (2) Plans have not changed, the producers feel that three episodes are enough to show Lee's ups and downs of command, (3) Keonigrules' source is flatly mistaken or (4) didn't get the details right (it's a Pegasus Viper that is sacrificed, or something like that). --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:58, 26 April 2006 (EST)

=== From Joe ===

Well, I've created {{tl|spoileranony}} with the following wording:

{{spoileranony}}

Basically, I feel that as long as we can cite a source for the rumor, we should report it as such. Care must be taken to ensure that we inform our readers that this information is rumor and speculation. Here are the criteria I'd prefer we use:

# As so long as it is reported on a valid news source (Gateworld, HNR, S2D), we can report it as well.
# We must take care to indicate that these are rumors. Therefore they may or may not be accurate. (Templates such as {{tl|spoileranony}} reflect this view.)
# We must make sure that we are not the primary source for these rumors -- we aren't a news and rumors site. We're a reference. We summarize and scrutinized what's been reported, nothing more, nothing less. (I guess I'm repeating point 1, but I don't think I can emphasize this enough.)

I think we may have to create a page specifically dealing with rumors, such as [[Battlestar Wiki:Rumor Policy]]. Thoughts?

So that's what I have to say on that subject... Unless anything else comes to mind. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:34, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:Page takes a second to create... :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:41, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
::{{tl|Episode List}} - needs to be updated. I posted a suggestion to split up the three seasons because spoliers and title names should be inclduded. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:46, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I agree with the three points Joe has listed here. I'm unsure on precise implementation though but we'll be hammering that out for a while. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 16:50, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:First, let me address some of your points above:
:#What the heck is a valid news source? Anyone can start a blog and be a "valid news source". This goes back to the credibility/reputation problem.
:#If we do decide to permit anonymous spoilers, an ostentatious warning banner is the last thing we need. This is alread taken care of by the spoiler and spoiltext tags we already have. The anonymity of the source should simply be noted in the citation.
:I'm afraid I'm still against anonymous sources. If we report anonymous spoilers, we ''must'' take into account the reputation of the poster. Since we ''cannot'' do this in an objective and non-arbitrary manner, we therefore cannot report anonymous spoilers.
:Lastly, there is nothing that we would cover in a "Rumor" policy that we couldn't cover here. Let's not spread ourselves thin. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:09, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

: "What the heck is a valid news source?" A very good question indeed. In fact, you do raise many interesting points above and I believe we should consider very carefully whether or not we cite spoilers. I'm starting to reconsider that. Anyone else want to chime in? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:19, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:: I dislike spoilers and only read them because it's an effective necessity to edit here; they don't add anything that wouldn't be there after the episode anyway. My opinion on anonymous sources for them (under the assumption that spoilers in general will be cited) is above. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:43, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

Joe, I think it's time to wrap this thing up. Let's formally close the blacklist vote and come to a conclusion about our policy on anonymous sources. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:57, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

== The Rumor Vote ==

I am calling a vote on this issue; the '''blacklist vote is closed'''. Since it seems to be the consensus that we will not blacklist anyone, I am calling for a different vote, so as to make thing clear.

Here's the text of what we are voting on:

: Battlestar Wiki's primary goals do not include discerning which unofficial sources have valid information. Our primary goal is to report valid information in an encyclopedic medium. Due to this, we will not be citing rumors from any sources other than official channels (SCI-FI Channel, Ronald D. Moore, and current cast and crew). Any information from sources other than those in the list will be immediately removed from the wiki; actions which lead to the repeated reintroduction of said unofficial and unverifiable material will be dealt accordingly by an on-duty administrator.

Voting will end '''May 9, 2006 at 23:00 UTC'''.

=== Support ===

# [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:13, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:04, 2 May 2006 (CDT) Could not agree more.
# [[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 23:24, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:52, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
# --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:53, 3 May 2006 (CDT) (If I'm understanding this right, we won't be ''reporting'' the rumors, let alone citing them?)
#*Well, that's my understanding Day, though I could be wrong. BTW, what if something like TVGuide gets word of such super-spoilers or from a different source entirely, then runs a story with them that has anonymous sources? I think that if a major publication runs it, the lid on such a spoiler would be blown so wide open that we can't contain it as its common knowledge. I mean they ran a story that Apollo would kiss Starbuck in "Home, Part I" a week before it happened, with a picture and everything. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:25, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
#**A picture would be pretty incontrovertible. I'm less inclined to take their word for it in the absence of corroborating evidence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
#***Agreed. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:47, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
#**Even in that case, unless it was corroborated by RDM or someone close to the production, then we wouldn't quote it. It's safer that way anyway. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:20, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
# Absolutely! -- [[User:Mazzy|Mazzy]] 09:44, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Gougef|Frankie Gouge]] 11:44, 3 May 2006 (EDT)
# [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 11:48, 3 May 2006 (CDT) ditto
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 11:50, 3 May 2006 (CDT) This should make life easier, as it's a nice, sharp delineation.
# [[User:Geckomind|Geckomind]] 13:13, 3 May 2006 (CDT) BTW, am I right in assuming that the "Purple! Green!" at the top comes from the B5 Episode "Geometry Of Shadows"?
#: Yep. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:50, 4 May 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:25, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Brecchie|Brecchie]] 21:05, 4 May 2006 (CDT)
# [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:15, 5 May 2006 (EST)
# [[User:Jasonbondshow|Jasonbondshow]] 01:18, 6 May 2006 (EST)
# I wouldn't even trust Sci-FI channel. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 22:56, 7 May 2006 (CDT)

=== Oppose ===

# [[User:barce|barce]] -- Perhaps the list of official sources can be broadened by a bit? For example, if Newsweek does a piece on Battlestar Galactica and say Arthur C. Clark is on the set and comments on something he sees there, isn't that still a good, yet unofficial source? 06 May 2006, 16:40:55 PDT
#*You don't understand we already talked about that: a magazine that did a set report is a reliable source. Someone saying they've got inside information but not exactly how they got it is not. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:19, 6 May 2006 (CDT)

=== Neutral ===

Colonial Marine Corps

2006-04-15T04:30:41Z

David Templar: /* Notes */ More on Marine equipment

[[Image:Khaki litmus.JPG|thumb|A Marine Non-Comissioned Officer flanked by two Marines in standard uniform ([[Litmus]]).]]
The '''Colonial Marine Corps''' are the ground soldiers of the Twelve Colonies, a different branch of the military than the [[Colonial Fleet]]. [[Galactica type battlestar|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' has about thirty of them left, although there are no snipers among them ([[Bastille Day]]).

A Marine's duties include guarding the [[CIC]] and [[brig]] ([[Miniseries]]) and assisting the [[Master-at-Arms]] ([[Litmus]]). They have been used several times on [[Raptors]] for boarding parties ([[Bastille Day]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Resistance]], [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]). They are also responsible for repelling enemy boarding actions ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

Sergeant [[Hadrian]] is a Marine, but no officers (if there were any) appear to be stationed on ''Galactica''; when they are shown on missions, Fleet officers command the Marine units.

==Known Marines==
*Lieutenant [[Terry Burrell]]
*Sergeant [[Hadrian]]
*Sergeant [[Fischer]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Private First Class [[Scott Kelso]]
*[[Hollis]]
*[[Wenzler]]
*[[Bonnington]]
*[[Twinam]]
*[[Collishaw]]

==Notes==

Their battle [[Uniform |uniforms]] appear to be based on those of the U.S. Army's [[Wikipedia:Delta Force|Delta Force]] or the counter-terrorist branch of the British Army's [[Wikipedia:Special Air Service|Special Air Service Regiment]]. Besides their black combat uniforms, the weapons and personal combat equipment of the Marines are similar to what police SWAT teams and anti-terrorist special forces units utilize.

[[Image:Marine_cic_standing01.jpg|180px|right|thumb|A Colonial Marine stands watch in ''Galactica's'' CIC]]

To date, the Marines have appeared in either an all-black BDU (aboard ship) or an olive-drab/green BDU (planetside, as in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]").

To outfit the Marines, the show's costume department appears to use the following real-world items: 
* Helmet
** [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006GIYA6/ref=pd_sbs_sg_1/102-8409210-0972100?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance Giro Bad Lieutenant snowboard/ski helmet, black] — far less heavy and less expensive than the US/UN [[Wikipedia:Personnel_Armor_System_for_Ground_Troops_Helmet|PASGT helmet]]
* Goggles
** [http://www.botac.com/paulson1.html Paulson 510T Tactical Goggles] — these, or...
** [http://www.botac.com/paulatfraggo.html Paulson 510TF ATAC "Frag" Goggles] — these... it depends on what the costume department was budgetted for, or got them for. The closures, hinges, and "face gasket" are the giveaways.
* Sub-machine guns
** [[Wikipedia:Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler-Koch MP5]] (multiple variants)
** [[Wikipedia:FN P90|Fabrique Nationale P90]] (with silencer)
* Shotgun
** [[Wikipedia:DAO-12|Protecta]]
* Carbine
** [[Wikipedia:Beretta Cx4 Storm|Beretta CX4 Storm]] (with short barrel, flash hider and [[Wikipedia:Picatinny_Rail|Picatinny Rails]])
* Rifle
** [[Wikipedia:Heckler & Koch G36|Heckler & Koch G36k]]
* Sidearm
** [[Wikipedia:FN Five-seveN|Fabrique Nationale Five-seveN]] (with added wood grips and explosive round launcher)
* Combat Vest
** [http://www.pointblankarmor.com/spider.asp PBBA SPIDER] — offered by a company called Point-Blank Body Armor, Inc., the vests appear to be one of these models, with a "modular grid attachment system" based around snaps (the telltale characteristic if you see a Colonial Marine's back) and velcro (a costumer's best friend!). This affords the costume department the option to attach whatever they want to the vests, regardless of compatability, since all they need to do is stitch on some velcro. As far as if it is the SPIDER specifically that's being used, or one of the following models, or a model offered from another manufacturer, has yet to be confirmed, but substantial research points towards this being the vest used in the series.
** [http://www.pointblankarmor.com/mrv.asp PBBA MRV+ SWAT] — "heavier" vest variant
** [http://www.pointblankarmor.com/swatcertplus.asp PBBA SWAT Cert+] — higher-collared variant
** [http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/tactical.php Pinnacle Armor Tactical Vest] — It ''more than likely'' is this one in the "modular grid base" unit. It makes the most sense, since it would be most cost effective to get the unlined, unarmored modular vest, with the velcro and snaps, and just attach whatever is wanted to it.
* Knife
** [http://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/bayonet/index.html M7 bayonets] (though they've never been drawn, bayonets carried by the Marines appear consistent with M7's sheath and handle)

Other weapons seen in Galactica's armoury include MAC-series submachine guns and M16-series rifles, though no Marines have been shown with them as of yet (shooting range scene, "[[Scar]]").

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Colonial Marine Corps

2006-04-15T04:12:26Z

David Templar: /* Notes */ Corrected Cx Storm from SMG to Carbine

[[Image:Khaki litmus.JPG|thumb|A Marine Non-Comissioned Officer flanked by two Marines in standard uniform ([[Litmus]]).]]
The '''Colonial Marine Corps''' are the ground soldiers of the Twelve Colonies, a different branch of the military than the [[Colonial Fleet]]. [[Galactica type battlestar|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' has about thirty of them left, although there are no snipers among them ([[Bastille Day]]).

A Marine's duties include guarding the [[CIC]] and [[brig]] ([[Miniseries]]) and assisting the [[Master-at-Arms]] ([[Litmus]]). They have been used several times on [[Raptors]] for boarding parties ([[Bastille Day]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Resistance]], [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]). They are also responsible for repelling enemy boarding actions ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

Sergeant [[Hadrian]] is a Marine, but no officers (if there were any) appear to be stationed on ''Galactica''; when they are shown on missions, Fleet officers command the Marine units.

==Known Marines==
*Lieutenant [[Terry Burrell]]
*Sergeant [[Hadrian]]
*Sergeant [[Fischer]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Private First Class [[Scott Kelso]]
*[[Hollis]]
*[[Wenzler]]
*[[Bonnington]]
*[[Twinam]]
*[[Collishaw]]

==Notes==

Their battle [[Uniform |uniforms]] appear to be based on those of the U.S. Army's [[Wikipedia:Delta Force|Delta Force]] or the counter-terrorist branch of the British Army's [[Wikipedia:Special Air Service|Special Air Service Regiment]]. Besides their black combat uniforms, the weapons and personal combat equipment of the Marines are similar to what police SWAT teams and anti-terrorist special forces units utilize.

[[Image:Marine_cic_standing01.jpg|180px|right|thumb|A Colonial Marine stands watch in ''Galactica's'' CIC]]

To date, the Marines have appeared in either an all-black BDU (aboard ship) or an olive-drab/green BDU (planetside, as in [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).

To outfit the Marines, the show's costume department appears to use the following real-world items: 
* Helmet
** [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006GIYA6/ref=pd_sbs_sg_1/102-8409210-0972100?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance Giro Bad Lieutenant snowboard/ski helmet, black] — far less heavy and less expensive than the US/UN [[Wikipedia:Personnel_Armor_System_for_Ground_Troops_Helmet|PASGT helmet]]
* Goggles
** [http://www.botac.com/paulson1.html Paulson 510T Tactical Goggles] — these, or...
** [http://www.botac.com/paulatfraggo.html Paulson 510TF ATAC "Frag" Goggles] — these... it depends on what the costume department was budgetted for, or got them for. The closures, hinges, and "face gasket" are the giveaways.
* Sub-machine guns
** [[Wikipedia:Heckler & Koch MP5|Heckler-Koch MP5]] (multiple variants)
** [[Wikipedia:FN P90|Fabrique Nationale P90]] (with silencer)
* Shotgun
** [[Wikipedia:DAO-12|Protecta]]
* Carbine
** [[Wikipedia:Beretta Cx4 Storm|Beretta CX4 Storm]]
* Rifle
** [[Wikipedia:Heckler & Koch G36|Heckler & Koch G36k]]
* Sidearm
** [[Wikipedia:FN Five-seveN|Fabrique Nationale Five-seveN]] (with added wood grips and explosive round launcher)
* Combat Vest
** [http://www.pointblankarmor.com/spider.asp PBBA SPIDER] — offered by a company called Point-Blank Body Armor, Inc., the vests appear to be one of these models, with a "modular grid attachment system" based around snaps (the telltale characteristic if you see a Colonial Marine's back) and velcro (a costumer's best friend!). This affords the costume department the option to attach whatever they want to the vests, regardless of compatability, since all they need to do is stitch on some velcro. As far as if it is the SPIDER specifically that's being used, or one of the following models, or a model offered from another manufacturer, has yet to be confirmed, but substantial research points towards this being the vest used in the series.
** [http://www.pointblankarmor.com/mrv.asp PBBA MRV+ SWAT] — "heavier" vest variant
** [http://www.pointblankarmor.com/swatcertplus.asp PBBA SWAT Cert+] — higher-collared variant
** [http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/tactical.php Pinnacle Armor Tactical Vest] — It ''more than likely'' is this one in the "modular grid base" unit. It makes the most sense, since it would be most cost effective to get the unlined, unarmored modular vest, with the velcro and snaps, and just attach whatever is wanted to it.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Battery/Archive 1

2006-04-01T05:14:09Z

David Templar: /* Rails */

Talk:Battery/Archive 1

2006-04-01T04:37:57Z

David Templar: /* Rails */ Touche

Talk:Battery/Archive 1

2006-04-01T03:28:31Z

David Templar: Explaining production error seems like a normal part of this wiki

Leland Adama

2006-03-31T23:29:13Z

David Templar: /* A Worthy Command */ Typo fix, minor rewording, minor addition

:''The article discusses the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]] character with the pilot callsign of "Apollo." For information on his [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Apollo (TOS)]].''

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Lee Adama promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= Lee Adama
|callsign= Apollo
|death=
|parents= [[Caroline Adama]] (mother, likely deceased), [[William Adama]] (father)
|siblings= [[Zak Adama]] (deceased)
|children=1 unborn child with Gianne (presumed deceased)
|marital status= Dating [[Anastasia Dualla]]
|role= Commander, battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''
|rank=Commander
|cylon=
|actor=[[Jamie Bamber]]
|name=
}}

== Biographical Notes ==

=== Background ===

'''Lee "Apollo" Adama''' is the eldest son of [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]] and [[William Adama]]. Together with his younger brother, Zak, he was raised largely by his mother on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], following his parents' divorce when he was eight.

Despite his father's estrangement from the family, Adama nevertheless inherited his passion for flying - a passion that saw him enrolling in the Colonial military reserves after graduating from college. Following his basic training, he graduated from the military academy third in his class and immediately applied for flight school.

Not to be outdone by his elder brother, Zak Adama applied for military service, a move that eventually brought tragedy to the Adama household.

Accepted into flight school, Adama proved himself a gifted and natural pilot, hampered only by his tendency to over-intellectualise things - a result of his upbringing with his mother, who encouraged him to read widely, and think freely (encouragement that lead him to read banned texts by the renegade [[Tom Zarek]] while at college ([[Bastille Day]])).

Graduating from flight school, Adama was commissioned as a Lieutenant in the Colonial Reserve, flying the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII. During this time, he was also introduced to [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], a training instructor at flight school, who was also involved with Zak Adama. While Adama was still at flight school, the three frequently spent time together, and Adama and Thrace developed a friendship through Zak Adama ([[Mini-Series]]).

=== Brother's Death ===

Tragedy struck some two years prior to the renewed Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies when Zak Adama, recently graduated from flight school, was killed on a routine Viper mission. At the time, the cause of the accident was put down to pilot error. However, Lee Adama chose to blame the mishap on his father, whom he believed had pushed Zak into applying for military service and for applying for flight school ([[Mini-Series]]).

Following Zak's death, Lee Adama became estranged from his father, seeking to build his career well away from any influence exerted by either William Adama or the legendary [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', his father's command. While he was successful in this - gaining promotion to Captain through his own abilities, the decision nevertheless placed a heavy strain on his friendship with Kara Thrace, as she applied for pilot duty aboard ''Galactica''.

Adama spends much time on Caprica and becomes engaged to a woman named [[Gianne]]. She tells him she is pregnant with their child, causing him to run from her due to his own family issues. Before he can speak with her again he is assigned to ''Galactica''. ([[Black Market]])

Adama is reunited with both his father and Kara Thrace when it was decided ''Galactica'' should be decommissioned and handed over to civil authorities as a living museum and educational center of the [[Cylon War]]. As a part of the final ceremonies marking ''Galactica's'' retirement, Lee Adama is ordered to participate in a final Viper flyby to salute both the ship and her commanding officer - an assignment he undertakes grudgingly, doing little to hide his true feelings from the moment he arrives on the battlestar ([[Mini-Series]]). Matters are not helped when he discovers he will fly not in his own Mark VII Viper, but in the newly-restored Mark II Viper his father had flown during the Cylon War ([[Mini-Series]]).

Things worsen after the PR official aboard ''Galactica'', [[Aaron Doral]], sees Captain Adama's presence on ''Galactica'' as a major PR opportunity and has Adama and his father pose for pictures together. Immediately following this, Adama confronts his father over Zak's death, during which he vents two years' worth of anger, clearly expressing his belief that William Adama was responsible for the loss of his brother.

=== Surprise [[Cylon Attack]] ===

Following the decommissioning ceremony, Lee Adama departs ''Galactica'', acting as a unofficial escort for ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'', the official transport for Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]], who represented President [[Richard Adar|Adar]] at the ceremony. Mid-way through their return to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], Adama and the crew of ''Colonial Heavy 798'' hear of the Cylon attacks on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], and soon find themselves under direct attack. While Adama is able to thwart the missile attack, his father's old Viper is disabled and is brought aboard ''Colonial Heavy 798''. Adama becomes one of Laura Roslin's unofficial advisors, aiding her in her self-appointed rescue mission. Adama's annoyance of his father's old Viper comes back to haunt him when [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]], returning from her unexpected rescue mission on Caprica and disastrous attack on two [[Cylon Raider]]s, notes to him that other Vipers and other modern Colonial spacecraft like his Mark VII were [[Command Navigation Program|easily destroyed]] by Cylon attacks.

Following his disobedience of a direct order from his father , Adama again saves ''Colonial Heavy 798'' from a nuclear missile attack with a failed experiment he toyed with in [[War College]], using ''Galactica's'' [[EMP]] coils that were placed on the ship for return to Caprica and the Colonial Fleet - while simultaneously making it look like the ship had been destroyed. He supports Roslin in her rescue efforts. Adama persuades Roslin to lead the [[FTL]]-capable ships to follow ''Galactica'' to the [[Ragnar Anchorage]].

As the ranking pilot aboard ''Galactica'', and despite his relative inexperience, Adama finds himself promoted to the position of CAG by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]].

Apollo leads a Viper squadron in keeping [[Cylon Raider]]s at bay while the civilian [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] Jumps away from Ragnar Anchorage. His ship is badly damaged midway in the battle and Adama would have been killed by a missile were it not for the lightning-fast and highly-accurate shooting of Starbuck. Starbuck's highly unconventional flying force-fits her fighter and Adama's now-powerless Viper nose-to-nose and flies him back to the battlestar seconds before the port [[flight pod]] closes and ''Galactica'' Jumps away.

The attacks presumably kill Lee's fiancé [[Gianne]] and their unborn child before Lee can speak to her again. This drives him into depression leading him to at an unknown time start seeing a prostitute named [[Shevon]] ([[Black Market]]).

=== Special Advisor ===
[[image:Water_Apollo_Roslin.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Lee Adama|Adama]] and President Roslin shake hands after appointment as military advisor in "[[Water]]". (c) Universal)]]
Lee Adama finds himself attached to Roslin as a "special advisor" to further help her understand military matters. This appointment does not sit well with his father ([[Bastille Day]]).

When tensions rise during a hostage crisis with prisoners aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', Adama resolves the situation with only one life lost through an arrangement reached between Adama and the leader of the convicts, [[Tom Zarek]]. While the solution is sensible, it is not to the liking of either Commander Adama or President Roslin.

In the weeks following the Cylon attack, Adama finds time to re-evaluate his relationship with his father - due in no small part to Starbuck's admission of her involvement in Zak's acceptance as a fighter pilot ([[Mini-Series]]) and his subsequent death. Father and son grow somewhat closer - even standing shoulder-to-shoulder when Starbuck is MIA ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). Even so, Adama's former self-doubts and moodiness are not easily overcome and sometimes come back to haunt him when he is tasked to fill a role that others are unsure he can manage. As a Viper pilot, Adama is able to escape from Starbuck's shadow, proving himself capable in unconventional and skilled flying in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

After the tylium asteroid mission, Adama matures enormously, emerging from his shell as a somewhat disillusioned officer and becomes a practical leader who now comfortably straddles his responsibilities as [[CAG]] of ''Galactica'' with his duties as advisor to Roslin. With few issues with either Roslin or his father, Adama demonstrates his maturity particularly well in his handling of security arrangements for the initial meeting of Roslin's [[Quorum of Twelve]] aboard the luxury liner ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' ([[Colonial Day]]).

=== The Inner Conflicts at Kobol ===

Unfortunately, Adama's beliefs in the need for democratic representation and civil government brings him in direct conflict with orders given him by Commander Adama. During the arrest of Laura Roslin following her [[Arrow of Apollo|interference with military operations]], Captain Adama draws his gun on [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] in a direct act of mutiny, protesting his father's removal of Roslin from office. Arrested together with Roslin, Adama watches helplessly in [[CIC]] as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Lieutenant Valerii]] shoots his father at point blank range, seriously wounding him ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).

Adama is temporarily furloughed by Colonel Tigh so that he can continue his CAG responsibilities, For a time, Commander Adama's initiative lives on through his son. Young Adama leads a fight with Cylons to buy time for ''Galactica'' to find its proper bearings to the civilian Fleet ([[Scattered]]), He leads a team of [[Marines]] to stop [[Cylon Centurion]]s from reaching [[Aft Damage Control]], saving the ship ([[Valley of Darkness]]). After that, Adama continues his initiative and leads a [[SAR]] mission with two [[Raptors]] to retrieve stranded Colonials on the surface of Kobol ([[Fragged]]).

Adama's desire to let democracy work without overt military action comes to a head once more as he plots with a handful of others to free Roslin and smuggle her away from ''Galactica'' ([[The Farm]]). Before he leaves, he apologizes to his unconscious Commander Adama at his bedside for what he is about to do: Leave with Roslin and a [[Laura Roslin faction|faction]] of ships to search for data on Earth on Kobol. Commander Adama begins to awaken just as Adama leaves his side.

On the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', Adama is so happy to see Kara Thrace returned safely from Caprica with the Arrow of Apollo that he hugs and also impulsively kisses her, pleasantly surprising Thrace ([[Home, Part I]]). Moments later, as the Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii entered, Adama instantly grabs the known [[Cylon agent]] in anger and would have killed her if Helo and Roslin did not intervene.
[[image:Home_pt1-Apollo_Starbuck.jpg|thumb|[[Lee Adama|Adama]] and Kara Thrace speak aboard the ''Astral Queen'' in "Home, Part I". (c) Universal)]]
Later, with their military protocols and attitudes temporarily relaxed, Adama playfully teases the brooding Kara Thrace by stealing a [[pyramid (RDM)|pyramid]] ball she took as a keepsake from her time with [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] on Caprica. He returns the ball after sensing her depressed mood and tells her that he would be happy to listen to what was on her mind. In the same conversation, he lets it slip out that he loves Thrace. Amused, Thrace cheers up a bit and teases Adama, telling him that there are no take-backs on what he said.

Adama and Thrace join President Roslin and her other supporters on their quest to find the [[Tomb of Athena]] on Kobol. When Cylon Centurions ambush the group along an ancient trail, Adama and Thrace work well together in the fight, complementing each other for their fine shooting. During the incident, Adama chases what appeared to be an escaping Valerii, with Thrace calling Adama back in vain. Valerii takes a grenade launcher and aims it in the direction of Adama, but Valerii actually uses the weapon to destroy the last Centurion instead before dropping the weapon to a very surprised Adama.

Adama's reunion with his recovered father on Kobol further mends the wounds between them, both politically and personally. Like Captain Adama had done on the ''Queen'', his father reacts violently to the existence of a another copy of Valerii, leaving Captain Adama in the awkward position of defending her from his father.

In the virtual planetarium created by the Tomb of Athena, Adama is the party member that completes the mystery of interpreting how to use the constellations as viewed from Earth to make a flight path. He spots the [[Wikipedia:Lagoon Nebula|Lagoon Nebula]] in the sky where the Scorpius constellation resided, a celestial body known to the Colonials which gives them a reference point to navigate to Earth. His father confirms Adama's observation, noting that the nebula is far away from their current location at Kobol.

After the Fleet's reunification, Lee Adama is fully restored to flight status and his position as the Commander, Air Group ([[Final Cut]]). Apollo doubts that [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] could successfully complete a prototype fighter later known as the [[Blackbird]], but in the end aids in its first test flight with Starbuck. Around this time, Adama begins to develop a peculiar attraction to Petty Officer 2nd Class [[Anastasia Dualla]] ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

===Reassignment===
Apollo is on [[CAP]] when the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' reunites with ''Galactica'': he was one of the first to see it up close. Soon afterwards, friction develops between Adama and the CAG of ''Pegasus'', Captain [[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]]. Taylor feels that Adama's pilots were undisciplined and implies that Adama has his position through his father's influence. Taylor recommends that Adama have his pilots focus on keeping a "killcount" of Raiders to encourage competition between his pilots, while Adama stresses that his first priority is to make sure that all of his pilots merely survive another day.

To Adama's shock, Admiral [[Helena Cain]] re-assigns him and Lt. Thrace to ''Pegasus'', under Taylor's command. Cain believes that having Commander Adama's son in the role of CAG was a mistake that had clouded Commander Adama's judgment, as young Adama had been insubordinate and even [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|mutinous]] in the past. During a briefing on an upcoming scouting mission against the Cylon fleet following them, Thrace crassly points out that it would never work. She is grounded while Taylor orders Adama to perform the humiliating task of co-piloting a Raptor. However, after the briefing, Adama surreptitiously gives Starbuck a surveillance package and tells her to take the Blackbird to carry out a recon mission on her own. When Commander Adama and Admiral Cain turn on each other, Apollo is away in Taylor's Raptor on his recon mission ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

As the two battlestar commanders begin sparring with Vipers, ''Pegasus'' orders Taylor to relieve Adama of duty. Taylor pulls his sidearm and takes away Adama's. Now weaponless and with nothing more to do than to ride along, Adama asks permission to head to the rear of the Raptor. While Taylor is busy, Adama secretly sends an encoded [[wireless]] message to Starbuck on her whereabouts with the Blackbird and the secret stealth mission he tasked her with. It happened that Starbuck arrives back in the Fleet's space to see the furious and dangerous game of Viper-tag and replies to Adama, asking what was going on. Starbuck's return on the outer fringes of [[DRADIS]] activate proximity alarms on both ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'', whose Vipers unite as a team to intercept what they think is a [[Raider]]. Starbuck manages to identify herself before things get out of hand.

Kara Thrace downloads her reconnaissance photos of what would be later known as the [[Resurrection Ship]] to a very surprised Admiral Cain, who promotes Thrace to Captain as well as assigning her as ''Pegasus'' [[CAG]], replacing Cole Taylor. Cain feels that persecuting Adama for authorizing Thrace's mission would be odd since she was promoting Thrace, so she decides to take Adama off flight status. In light of Thrace's new task of planning an attack on the Resurrection Ship, Thrace asks for and successfully returns Adama to flight status. He remains, however, demoted to Lieutenant ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

Adama visits [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] in the ''Pegasus'' brig, asking the two of them with a smile, "So, just how many kinds of stupid are you?" He informs them that their scheduled execution is on hold until at least after the battle operation, and tells how Commander Adama "went to the mat" for both of them in trying to get them back, almost going into a shooting war with ''Pegasus''.

After the battlestar commanders and their teams are briefed by Thrace on her attack plan, Commander Adama requests Thrace to stay to talk more on the plan and dismisses his son, asking him cryptically to "stay focused, son." With young Adama gone, the elder Adama asks Thrace to kill Cain after the operation to prevent her from eventually having Commander Adama killed and, in turn, doom the Fleet to Cain's tyrannical commands. Commander Adama tells Thrace to take Lee Adama with her, to watch her back ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

=== Battle of the Resurrection Ship ===

With the recon photos from Starbucks mission in hand, Thrace plans an assault on the Resurrection Ship and the two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s defending it. At the same time, Starbuck told Apollo that his father had ordered her to kill Cain after the battle, and for Apollo to watch her back. Outraged, Apollo confronted his father with this, who said that it wasn't something he wanted to do but that had to be done. However, Apollo was shocked when his father told him that assassinating Cain was President Roslin's idea. Apollo was in disbelief that as a society they had fallen to these levels. Thrace assigns Adama the specific task of disabling the Resurrection Ship's [[FTL]] drive by sneaking up on it in the Blackbird and destroying it with a precision missile strike. Apollo is successful in his mission and disables the Resurrection Ship, however, he is then hit by a floating piece of debris. Apollo is able to eject, but the Blackbird is destroyed. Alive, but not unscathed, Apollo floats in space watching the battle take place, able to faintly hear [[Dee]] calling for him over the wireless. A small hole in the leg on his flight suit allows most of his oxygen to escape into space. Drifting in and out of consciousness, he finds himself floating in a body of water, presumably on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] before the attack.

Adama is found shortly afterwards by a [[SAR]] [[Raptor]] and is brought back from the brink of death on board. However Apollo becomes despondent and distant from his friends and family after his near death experience. In the pilots locker room, Thrace tells Adama "Lets just be glad that we both came back alive, alright?" to which Adama responds "Thats just it, Kara, I didn't want to make it back alive." ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])

=== The Black Market ===

Adama (who has had his captains rank restored) and Thrace apprehend Viper saboteur [[Asha Janik]] of the [[Demand Peace]] group which is trying to make peace with the Cylons. ([[Epiphanies]])

After President Roslin is saved from her cancer ([[Epiphanies]]) she begins trying to put down the Fleet's [[Black market (organization)|Black Market]]. New Pegasus commander [[Jack Fisk]] is soon murdered leading the elder Adama (now an Admiral) to assign his son to investigate. After seeing prostitute [[Shevon]] and her daughter [[Paya]] on ''[[Cloud 9]]'' Adama is asked by [[Anastasia Dualla]] where the relationship between the two of them was going. After he can't answer Dualla takes it to mean it is over. Adama rushes back to Shevon's quarters after hearing a call for help from her, and is ambushed by thugs. Their leader [[Phelan]] warns him against investigating further. Lee is knocked unconscious and upon awaking finds everyone gone except the corpse of Fisk's murderer.

With some help from [[Tom Zarek]] Adama finds the Black Markets main ship ''[[Prometheus]]'', abroad which Paya and other children are locked up. He confronts Phelan who tells him a Black Market is needed in the Fleet since no supplies will ever reach the people any other way. Shevon is dragged out to admit she works for Phelan as a prostitute. Adama shoots Phelan and tells his bodyguards the market will continue unless it keeps holding back essential medicines, killing, and using child prostitution.
Shevon refuses to see Adama anymore, stating to him she and Paya are just replacements for his lost fiancé [[Gianne]] and their unborn child. ([[Black Market]])

===Friendly Fire===
While on leave to [[Cloud 9]] with [[Anastasia Dualla]], a group of terrorists demanding they be allowed to kill [[Sharon Valerii]] held about a dozen people, including Dualla, Billy Keikeya, [[Ellen Tigh]] and Adama, hostage in a bar. Lee reacted quickly, sabotaging the bar's sensors so it appeared they were leaking atmosphere. The sabotage enabled Capt. Thrace to gather intelligence on the situation, but her cover was blown, and she was forced to lay down some fire to escape. One shot hit Adama in the chest. Dualla was able to care for Adama long enough for him to survive to Galactica's sickbay, and later sat at his bedside while he recovered. ([[Sacrifice]])

===A Worthy Command ===

Adama finds himself promoted to Major and assigned to battlestar [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus]]'' as the [[Executive officer]] for new commander [[Barry Garner]], a former officer in Engineering. Garner finds an instant dislike for Starbuck and soon orders her to be sent back to ''Galactica''. Meanwhile, a Raptor recon mission near a binary star system becomes a [[SAR]] as the two craft go missing. Against orders from Admiral Adama, Garner takes ''Pegasus'' in to search for the Raptors. His impulsive and unwise efforts result in a Cylon ambush of three basestars.

With the FTL drive damaged, he relegates command to Major Adama and heads below to help in FTL repairs. After a moment's hesitation (perhaps thinking what his father would do), Adama orders the forward guns to fire on the nearest basestar's central spire, critically damaging the basestar and forcing its retreat, while commanding the battlestar's fighters (led by Starbuck) to guard embattled areas damaged from nuclear pummeling. After Commander Garner successfully repairs a critical area and the FTL drive repaired, Major Adama retrieves the fighters and Jumps back to the Fleet and relative safety.

Admiral Adama debriefs his son, and congratulates him by promoting him to the rank of Commander and giving him command of battlestar ''Pegasus'' ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Sometime later, Apollo wished Starbuck good luck in rescuing [[Anders]] and the rest of the [[Resistance]], despite his clear personal feeling towards her. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). After the two of them returned, Adama attempted to introduce himself politely, but was hampered by vast quantity of alcohol they had consumed.

[[Image:Fatlee6as.jpg|thumb|left|Lee Adama in command of ''Pegasus''.]]

Just over a year later, Apollo was the Commander of a half-capacity, nearly unneeded Battlestar orbiting [[New Caprica]]. He was in the process of deciding whether or not to give Kara antibiotics for Anders (now her very ill husband) when Dualla (now an officer on the [[CIC]]) spots a Cylon fleet jumping into the nebula. Adama and his father had a brief discussion over their course of action (with Lee arguing for jumping away and Bill against), before the Admiral ordered the Fleet, whose population now consisted less than ten thousand crew, to jump away, leaving New Caprica to the Cylons, for the time being. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

== Notes ==

''Some of this information may not be [[canon]].''

*From [[Ronald D. Moore]]'s [[Wikipedia:blog|blog]], in response to a fan's question:

<blockquote>In my first draft of the [[Mini-Series|mini]], Lee Adama had just been accepted into test pilot school on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] and was not currently assigned to any [[battlestar]]. Presumably, he had been posted to at least a couple of battlestar [[CAG|air groups]] in his career, as well as several ground assignments as well. This isn't [[canon]] yet, however, and I'm currently thinking of changing some elements of his specific backstory as I work on storylines for [[Season 2 (2005-06)|Season Two]]. Overall, I'd say Lee was striving (perhaps too hard) to blaze a different path for himself in the fleet from that of his [[William Adama|father]]. I don't think Lee ever saw himself as a battlestar commander and was looking for a different way to make his mark.</blockquote>
*According to Jamie Bamber, Adama's official character biography states that “Lee is never so happy as when he’s in his kitchen cooking.”

*The subtitles under Apollo's name in "[[Final Cut]]" list him as "CFR". In the podcast, RDM explained that this stood for Colonial Fleet Reserves; likely analogous to the U.S. Army Reserve, the U.S. Air Force Reserve and such of the United States military; and Apollo is in that because, as stated above, he wasn't sure what he was doing with his life and wasn't sure if he was going to pursue a full career in the Fleet.
* Jamie Bamber is the husband of actress Kerry Norton, who portrays [[Layne Ishay]], the paramedic from "[[Scattered]]".
* Bamber is actually a British citizen; he disguises his accent to play the role of Lee Adama.

Here is SkyOne's summary of Lee Adama:

:''Lee was born and raised on the colony of Caprica, where his family were born. A headstrong, scrappy boy, he was forever getting into fights at school.''

:''His parents divorced when he was just eight and his younger brother Zak was raised by their mother. His father visited him when he could, but military life often took him away for long periods. Nevertheless, both boys grew up worshipping this distant figure.''

:''Lee always wanted to be a pilot; to follow in his father's footsteps and join the fleet. He studied hard at school, aced his entrance exams to the academy and graduated third in his class. But the boy's hero-worship eventually turned to resentment, and neither knew how to repair it.''

:''While Lee was at flight school, his younger brother was away at Viper Squadron and a plum assignment on Atlantia - flagship of the fleet. Lee tried to dissuade him, but Zak did not want to be the only Adama without wings on his uniform. Zak's application was turned down. As Commander Adama pulled a few strings to get his son in, Lee was furious.''

:''Two weeks later, Zak's plane went down while he was flying a routine solo mission and he was killed. Lee spent the next two years focusing on his career, having no personal life and working to become the perfect fighter pilot.''

As this information does not come from the official Scifi.com site, it's authenticity is in question. Further, it is contradicted by on screen evidence: Zak was killed in an accident at flight school, and was never on a battlestar. Further, Lee did not work hard (at least after Zak's death) to be the best Viper pilot or to improve his career; multiple cast interviews and RDM podcasts state that he was despondent, didn't know what to do with his life, and was considering leaving the service. Further, in "[[Final Cut]]" we see that he is a member of the Colonial Fleet Reserves, not regular fleet, indicating that he wasn't particularly concerned with a lifelong career.

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=[[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]]|title=Commander, Air Group of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]|title=Commander, Air Group of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown, eventually [[Jack Fisk]])''|title=Executive Officer of the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=''(unknown, eventually [[Anastasia Dualla]])}}
{{succession box|before=[[Barry Garner]]|title=Commanding Officer of the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

== See Also ==

* [[Apollo (TOS)]]
* [[Richard Hatch]]
* [[Tom Zarek]]

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Adama, Lee]]
[[Category:Characters|Adama, Lee]]
[[Category:RDM|Adama, Lee]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Adama, Lee]]

Gaius Baltar

2006-03-31T23:19:24Z

David Templar: /* Background */ Can't believe there's no mention of Baltar's lecherous ways

:''This page discusses the unwitting betrayer of humanity in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. For information on the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] character that intentionally betrays the [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)|Twelve Colonies of Man]], see [[Baltar (TOS)|Baltar]].''

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Gaius Baltar promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= Gaius Baltar
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status= Single, in a relationship with a [[Cylon-Related_Hallucinations#Baltar.27s_Internal_Six|hallucination of Number Six]]. Previously involved with [[Caprica-Six|the real Number Six]] and [[Gina]].
|role= President of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]]
|rank=
|actor= [[James Callis]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}
__TOC__

== Background ==

Dr. '''Gaius Baltar''' was formerly a lead defense systems developer working for the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense]] and was widely considered a genius and celebrity throughout [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]]. Baltar came to prominence as a computer technology designer having won three [[Magnate Prize]]s. Baltar was born on [[The_Twelve_Colonies_(RDM)#Sagittaron |Sagittaron]] and attracted to [[The_Twelve_Colonies_(RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] by the Defense Ministry{{ref|birthplace}}. He networks with others well, and became personal friends with President [[Adar (RDM)|Adar]]. Baltar becomes responsible for the design of the critical [[Command Navigation Program]] (CNP) used throughout the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Baltar's scientific prowess seems strongest in the medical and biological fields. As a result of his lesser (although still advanced) computer programming skills, he seeks the help (and as a byproduct, the affections of) a young woman named [[Number Six|Natasi]] to aid him with the CNP.

Elegantly dressed and aesthetically handsome, with the affected humility of the truly arrogant, Baltar is nonetheless a deeply flawed person and almost pathologically narcissist. Beneath his outstanding abilities lurks a dramatic weakness of character. Self-absorbed, sly, guileful, lecherous and utterly dedicated to his own self-preservation, Baltar has carried on a two-year affair with Natasi-- even to the extent of using code she herself wrote to overcome shortfalls in his CNP -- and thus allows her unrestricted access to some of the most sensitive systems of the Colonial defenses.

Baltar is currently President of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], succeeding President [[Laura Roslin]].

== [[Cylon Attack]] ==
[[image:Mini-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six|Number Six]] kissing in the [[Mini-Series]]. (C. SciFi Channel)]]
When the Cylons launch their attack, Baltar becomes horrified to learn that his "corporate spy" lover is in fact a new type of Cylon -- a [[Cylon agent|Cylon in human form]], able to mimic human beings down to the smallest detail -- and that she altered his CNP as a gateway to make all integrated Colonial computers and defense systems vulnerable to a Cylon virus that subverts their command and control systems.

Appalled by the fact that his sexual folly has led to the virtual holocaust of humanity, Baltar is nevertheless determined not only to survive but also avoid having his unintended treachery revealed.

Rescued on Caprica following the forced-landing of a Colonial [[Raptor]] -- at the cost of [[Karl Agathon|one of the crew staying behind]] ([[Mini-Series]]) -- he is pleased to find himself treated with the same esteem he enjoyed back on Caprica. His only problem is that [[Number Six]], his former "lover" -- herself ostensibly destroyed in the shock wave of a nuclear blast -- now appears to him in visions, and he cannot be sure whether this is a result of his own guilt at his actions or whether -- as she initially claims -- she is part of a chip that has been implanted in his brain{{ref|chip}}.

Shortly after Baltar's arrival on ''Galactica'', Commander [[William Adama]] learns that Cylons can mimic human form, and Baltar is put to work trying to devise a means of detecting these humanoid Cylons. By an educated guess (and an apparent attempt to distract those who suspected him of treachery), he exposes [[Aaron Doral]] -- a PR executive who co-ordinated the media coverage of ''Galactica's'' decommissioning -- as a Cylon agent ([[Mini-Series]]), using little more than invented [[technobabble]] to convince [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]]. Despite his protestations of innocence, Doral is marooned at [[Ragnar Anchorage]], but soon a team of Cylon agents appear to pick up the stranded Doral. Baltar's educated guess was correct--Doral was indeed a Cylon agent.

Due to his unique abilities, Baltar is charged with turning his initial "[[Cylon detector]]" into a working machine capable of screening everyone in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. While he at first balks at this task, events such as the sabotaging of ''Galactica's'' water reserves ([[Water]]) force him into a position where he can no longer procrastinate over the detector -- despite his fear that such a device might somehow expose him as the original traitor among humans. Gaining aid from a most unusual source -- his "virtual" Six ([[Bastille Day]]), who gets him to request a nuclear warhead for the detector -- Baltar eventually develops a genuine detector; which functions by exposing cell samples to the warhead's radiation, because it has already been demonstrated ([[Miniseries]]) that Cylons are more susceptible to certain kinds of radiation. This, together with his survival of a foiled attempt to expose him as a traitor ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]), firmly establishes his credentials within the Fleet's hierarchy.

With this new-found trust, and despite his willingness to deliberately conceal vital information, such as [[Sharon Valerii#"Boomer" Valerii|Lieutenant Valerii's]] true status as a [[Cylon agent]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]), Baltar willing enters the realm of political leadership, first as the Representative for [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] on the [[Quorum of Twelve]], and then as the newly-elected Vice President of the Colonies ([[Colonial Day]]).

== Cylon Manipulations ==

The Cylons commenced their direct manipulations of Baltar some two years prior to the attack on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], by bringing him into contact with their agent, [[Number Six]], who started a torrid affair with him while at the same time using him to access vital Colonial command and control systems within the Ministry of Defense ([[Mini-Series]]).

This manipulation continues even after the Doctor leaves Caprica behind, with Six appearing to him in sensory perceptions, possibly through an implant in his brain ([[Miniseries]]) or perhaps even through a series of psychotic hallucinations as the doctor struggles to reconcile his guilt and his desire of self-preservation.

Regardless of the cause of her appearances, Six continues to help and hinder Baltar, gradually drawing him to a point of near-open acceptance and participation in Cylon plans and activities ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). The majority of this manipulation has been through religious intrigue, linked to physical threats to Baltar's well-being or that of other humans. These manipulations include:

* Using the threat of Baltar's former colleague, Dr. [[Amorak]], attempting to contact [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] with information on a "traitor" within Colonial circles -- and only "removing" this threat once Baltar has "repented of his sins" ([[33]])
* Using the threat of direct accusation (in the form of "[[Shelly Godfrey]]") coupled with "photographic evidence" -- and only "removing" this threat once Baltar has "accepted" [[God]] into his life ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])
[[image:Scattered-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|[[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Number Six]] seeing "the shape of things to come" in "[[Scattered]]". (C. Universal Studios)]]
Baltar's near-acquiescence to the [[God|Cylon religion]] comes when he goes through a process similar to the [[wikipedia:Evangelicalism|evangelical Christian]] belief in "rebirth" through adult baptism. In this, the new believer in the Christian faith is baptized (generally through full immersion in water), symbolizing the "death" of the "old" self and "birth" of the "new" Christian self. In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", Baltar apparently undergoes "death" at the hands of his inner Six when she "breaks" his neck -- and is "reborn" in his real life as the "instrument of God", able to point-out precisely where Colonial forces must strike in order to eliminate the Cylon base preventing them from accessing supplies of [[Tylium|tylium]] ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

This act leaves Baltar ripe for the final revelation of his role within Cylon expectations, when "the future" is revealed to him by Six on [[Kobol]], in the form of the first of "God's new generation of children" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Baltar is not particularly pleased by this, especially when he learns that he is to be the father and that the mother will be Six ([[Scattered]]). Despite this, when he believes Commander Adama is trying to kill the child in one of his dreams, he tries to stop this ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

==Survival on Kobol==
[[Image:Baltarixvalleydarkness.jpg|Number Six showing Baltar the clearing filled with human bones, telling him they were from human sacrifices.|thumb]]
While stranded on Kobol, Baltar "awoke" in a clearing filled with human bones. Number Six tells him the bones were from human sacrifices, and that all of the myths about the gods of Kobol and the paradise on Kobol were a lie to hide the true brutality of man, which increases Baltar's cynical opinion of humanity. Number Six also warns that one of the survivors of Baltar's crash would turn against the others.

The Raptor crash survivors, consisting of Baltar, Chief [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Cally]], [[Seelix]], and ranking crew member [[Crashdown]], a lieutenant, are faced with [[Cylon Centurion]]s building a missile battery that will destroy any rescue ships trying to save them. Crashdown, obsessed with success after the deaths of [[Tarn]] and [[Socinus]], orders the team to make a suicidal attack on the Cylon position. Baltar has never fired a weapon in his life and feels it could not be done. Due to the fact that he was the only non-military member of the survivors, he insists that they put it to a vote before Tyrol shouts him down to follow the chain of command.

On starting the attack, Cally freezes in terror, unable to create the needed diversion. Crashdown points his gun at her head and threatens to kill her if she does not obey the order. Immediately, Tyrol levels his gun at Crashdown. A tense standoff ensues. Just as Crashdown is about to fire, Baltar shoots him in the back, killing him instantly{{ref|killing}}. The group successfully carries out the alternate plan of attacking the Cylon's [[DRADIS]] dish, and are rescued by the Raptors. Baltar tells the [[SAR]] team that Crashdown died a hero in the fight, and Tyrol reluctantly corroborates his story ([[Fragged]]).

==Return to ''Galactica''==

Back on ''Galactica'', Baltar insists that if Roslin's presidency was terminated, as Vice President he should then succeed her in command, but Col. Tigh dismisses the notion because he has instituted martial law in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. Later, Cally blackmails Baltar into making it a priority to prove that Chief Tyrol is not a Cylon, as Col. Tigh suspects, or Cally would reveal to all that it was really Baltar that killed Crashdown. Baltar pushes Cally against the wall and lectures her sternly, but she refuses to back down, telling him to "help the Chief [by] help[ing] [him]self." Incensed at this ingratitude, Baltar heads to the [[brig]] to take a blood sample from Tyrol, located in the same cell as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]], but actually injects him with a toxin that will kill him in seconds without an antidote. Baltar uses Tyrol's importance to Boomer to coerce the panicked Cylon agent to disclose how many remaining humanoid Cylons are hiding in the Fleet. He gambles that, even if Valerii was programmed to think she was human, on a subconscious level she truly ''would'' know the answer as a Cylon operative. With time running out, she shouts out "Eight!" Baltar revives Tyrol. Baltar plans to perform a series of experiments on Boomer, but she is soon killed by Cally ([[Resistance]]).
[[image:brainscan.jpg|Baltar recieves his brain scan from Dr. Cottle, as Six watches on in amusement.|thumb]]
Some time later, as Commander Adama attempts to retrieve President Roslin and reunite the Fleet, Baltar yells at his internal Number Six for her increasingly ridiculous random changes in appearance, even questioning her actual existence. She responds by simplifying her appearance and attitude and told him that he truly had gone crazy, claiming there is no "computer chip" in his head with her personality, and that she is indeed a hallucination brought on by his guilt-ridden subconscious. Baltar has a brain scan performed in [[sickbay]] by Dr. [[Cottle]] (despite ''interference'' from Six), which confirms no "foreign objects" are present in his head. Baltar is ready to believe that he is truly insane when he hears [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Sharon]] discuss Valerii's pregnancy with a Cylon/Human hybrid child from his observation room. Six told Baltar earlier that "their child" would be born in that cell, and this leads Baltar to realize that Six ''must'' be real because his subconscious couldn't have known that. Number Six says that she is indeed real and not a hallucination. While she still denies the presence of a chip in Baltar's head, she claims to be "an angel of God sent here to protect [Baltar]". Six tells Baltar that by "their" child she is referring to Caprica-Valerii's biological child: Six considers herself the mother, and Baltar the father ([[Home, Part II]]).

When [[D'anna Biers]] films a documentary about life aboard ''Galactica'', Six urges Baltar to give an interview to try to win people over to thinking that he should be running the Fleet. Baltar performs badly as he begins his interview but, fortunately, his interview is interrupted by a Cylon attack that Biers chooses to film instead ([[Final Cut]]).

Baltar aids in trying to overcome the Cylon [[logic bomb]] which devastates ''Galactica's'' [[computers]]. Tigh's dislike of Baltar's involvement in this problem makes the scientist edgy enough to retort, "I'm sorry. Do you want to survive this one or not, Colonel?" ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])
[[image:baltargina.jpg|Baltar with Gina, the Cyclon prisoner from ''Pegasus''.|thumb]]

==Arrival of ''Pegasus''==

When battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' reunites with the Fleet, Commander Adama requests that Baltar examine ''Pegasus' '' own Cylon prisoner to see what information he could glean from it. Upon arrival in the ''Pegasus'' brig, Baltar is horrified to discover the Cylon was a terribly abused and tortured copy of Number Six named "[[Gina]]". Baltar vows to help her in any way he could, and begins by having her restraints removed and bringing food to her. The inhumane treatment of Gina by the ''Pegasus'' crew likely makes Gaius more critical of humanity's worth ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

Over the course of his examination of Gina, he uncovers both her wish to die and the secret of the Cylon [[Resurrection Ship]]. He passes this information to Adama and [[Helena Cain|Admiral Helena Cain]], who develop an [[Attack on the Resurrection Ship|operation to destroy it]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

Baltar continues to spend time with Gina, growing closer to her despite Six's pleas to the contrary and eventually helps Gina escape from the brig. He tells Gina that he can hide her, and also that he loves her. Gina goes on to kill Cain and escapes from the ''Pegasus'' through unexplained means, although it is probable that Baltar had something to do with it ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

==Serving Everyone, but No One==

To many others, Dr. Baltar's personality appears to exhibit more odd behavior than what may be considered the expected eccentricity of a genius. Crewmembers on ''Galactica'' find him mumbling with himself or discovering him in places they do not expect, such as aboard battlestar ''Pegasus'' to see its new commander, [[Jack Fisk]]. Torn between the "flesh and blood" copy of the [[Number Six]] copy, Gina, the demands of his internal Number Six, and his continuing attempt to cover his own multiple duplicities, Baltar becomes more aggressive and confrontational. With President Roslin's advice to abort the Cylon-hybrid fetus of the incarcerated [[Sharon Valerii]], Baltar reacts to defend it as if it were his own child (as does his internal Six, who threatens him on the problem). Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] admonishes Baltar, telling him that, on Roslin's death, he will become President and that he needs to behave like one.

Desperate to save Valerii's fetus, Baltar reviews Dr. [[Cottle]]'s medical tests and performs experiments of his own, learning a striking revelation: the blood of the fetus can destroy cancer and repair its damage to human tissue. With Admiral Adama's permission, he injects the dying President Roslin with some of the fetal blood, which works miraculously, saving both Roslin and Valerii's child by circumstance.

After saving Roslin's life, Baltar reads the letter given to him in the event of her death, in which she says he lacks compassion and asks him to open his heart if he becomes president. Furious, and goaded on by Six who tells him that Roslin doesn't trust him, Baltar delivers the nuclear warhead used for the Cylon detector to Gina and her militant [[Demand Peace]] movement. ([[Epiphanies]]).

Baltar keeps his [[fumarello]] supply fresh by trading in the [[black market (organization)|black market]] through new ''Pegasus'' Commander [[Jack Fisk]]. Not realizing that Fisk had been murdered, the scientist visits Fisk's quarters, only to meet Captain [[Lee Adama]], who has starten an investigation on the black market and Fisk's murder. Baltar truthfully tells Adama that he knows nothing of Fisk's murder, but Adama correctly deduces Baltar's association with Fisk and the black market since the "Caprica Imperials" fumarellos are a known favorite of Baltar's.

Baltar is also unaware that his involvement in the destruction of the Colonies is partially revealed. In ''Galactica's'' sickbay, Laura Roslin recalled those final days on Caprica, and remembered Baltar in the company of a woman on Caprica who she knows now is a [[Number Six|Cylon agent]]. Baltar is summoned to ''[[Colonial One]]'', where Roslin offers him, without explanation, the chance to resign from the Vice Presidency to return to his studies. Baltar becomes immediately suspicious (and frightened) in Roslin's succinct and direct vote of no-confidence in her vice president. Realizing that the Vice Presidency now has greater importance (if nothing other than to save his own hide), Baltar turns down what Roslin calls a "one-time offer" to save himself as he saved Roslin on her
deathbed ([[Black Market]]).

== Gaius as President ==

Dr. Baltar will run for President in the coming Colonial Elections. ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

He wins the election despite Roslen's attempt to defraud the election. When on New Caprica once the Cylons do show up, he surrenders New Cparica to the Cylons only after asking a few questions to Cylon models [[Number Six|Six]], [[Number Five|Five]], and [[Number Eight|Eight]]. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

== Speculation: The Real Baltar? ==

There is speculation that Gaius Baltar could be a Cylon agent himself. See the [[Cylon agent speculation#Gaius Baltar?|Cylon Speculation]] article for the pros and cons of this theory.

==Notes==

#{{note|chip}}The idea that Six is an actual chip in Baltar's head was dismissed by Dr. [[Cottle]]'s image scan of Baltar's head. See [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|the section on alternate reasons for Six's existence]] for more.
#{{note|killing}}The act of killing Crashdown appears to have led to a dramatic change in Baltar's attitude toward hurting anyone directly. When Cally tries to blackmail him after they return from Kobol, Baltar is somewhat rough with her. When he visits Tyrol and Boomer in the brig, he does not hesitate to inject Tyrol with fatal drugs to blackmail Boomer into giving Cylon secrets. Baltar's humanitarian acts to the Six copy known as Gina also suggests Baltar's attitude in the care of Cylons is further changing. More and more, Baltar appears to prefer direct intervention and is less cowardly in his attitude.
#{{note|birthplace}} Baltar's planet of birth and recruitment by the Colonial Defense Ministry to Caprica are according to SkyOne. However, information from SkyOne may not be canonical at all.

Here is SkyOne's summary of Baltar:

:''Scientific genuis Gaius is one of the greatest minds humanity has to offer. Unfortunately, his abundance of intellect is counterbalanced by a complete lack of ethics. His moral weakness allows the Cylons to infiltrate and neutralize the defences of the 12 Colonies.''

:''Gaius Baltar was born on a farm on the colony of Sagittaron.''

:''His family had worked the land for three generations and even as a boy, Gaius hated farm life. Fortunately, his parents owned a large and sprawling agri-business controlling millions of acres across the planet; Gaius found a different use for farm life and used it to study science and maths.''

:''Gaius became more than a good student - he was a genuis at 14.''

:''By the age of 21 he had his first doctorate under his belt. Soon he was being hotly pursued by every major university to set up a research lab.''

:''Gaius' speciality was theoretical physics, but his true passion was computer science. He saw the prevailing anti-technological edicts as short-sighted, and believed in advancing human technology that the Cylons could not infiltrate.''

:''Because of his achievements, Gaius' help was needed by the Defence Ministry on top-secret projects. Gaius soon found himself the keeper of secrets, a position that flattered his already impressive ego.''

:''Still it wasn't enough; he hungered for a chance to work on a true artificial intelligence project. He then meets a smart and beautiful woman who seemed to understand him in a way no other had. She shared his passion of A.I. systems. The relationship lasted for two years and during this time she provided him with new and innovative ideas. Only one thing was missing; Gaius could not find out anything about her. Was it the perfect relationship he once thought it was?''

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown)''|title=Caprican delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]|after=''(unknown)''}}
{{succession box (spoiler-aft)|before=''(unknown)''|title=[[Government|Vice-President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=[[Tom Zarek]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[Laura Roslin]]|title=[[Government|President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:Characters|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:RDM|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Baltar, Gaius]]

Galactica (TRS)

2006-03-31T22:27:37Z

David Templar: /* Other Craft */ More on status of Galactica's heavy raiders

:''For the Original Series ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (TOS)]]. For the Video Game ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (Video Game)]].'' 

[[Image:Bsg-bsg-1.jpg|thumb|300px|The historic battlestar ''Galactica'']]

'''''Galactica'' (BS 75)''' is the most famous warship in the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Built in time to participate in the [[Cylon War]], she remained the only military vessel without integrated [[Computers|computer networks]]. Without networked computers, ''Galactica'' never upgraded to the new [[Command Navigation Program|integrated defense system software]] developed by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Number Six|team]]. Because of this and other fortune, she became one of only [[Pegasus (RDM)|two]] battlestars to survive the renewed Cylon attack on the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], some 40 years after the end of the first war.

== Fleet Details ==

'''Designation''': warship, battlestar type, [[Galactica type battlestar|original battlestar class]] (class name unknown).

'''Deployment''': Formerly an element of the [[75th Battlestar Group]] (BSG 75)

'''Current Status''': One of [[Pegasus (RDM) |two]] remaining Colonial military units. ''Galactica'' is commanded by [[William Adama]].

== History ==

''Galactica'' was one of the twelve first battlestars to be laid down by the Colonials. Initially they built a battlestar to represent each colony, and Galactica was the battlestar that represented [[Caprica]]. As such, she is some 50 years old (Mini Series). Following the outbreak of Cylon hostilities several more battlestars were built. ''Galactica's'' first commander was [[Peter Dash]] ([[Mini-Series]]).

The original battlestars were all designed with non-integrated computer systems to avoid the Cylons' demonstrated ability to override or subvert networked command and control systems early in the war ([[Mini-Series]]). Rather than technological sophistication, the battlestar depended on its sheer bulk and defensive / offensive capabilities to ward off any threats to itself or the Colonies.

Following the [[Armistice Station|armistice]] with the Cylons, and their withdrawal from Colonial space, ''Galactica'' and her sister ships continued to serve the Twelve Colonies in a wide variety of roles. While her surviving sister ships were scrapped or upgraded to match the systems capabilities of more modern Colonial vessels, ''Galactica'' continued in service without her systems being fully networked or integrated, making her unique among Colonial military vessels ([[Miniseries]]).

With her active career drawing to a close, a decision was taken to retire ''Galactica'' and decommission her from service. [[Colonial Fleet]] chose not to scrap her, but to turn her into a combination of living museum to the original Cylon War and an educational center, with her conversion being overseen by her final commander, [[William Adama]] ([[Miniseries]]).

At the time of her formal decommissioning ceremony, ''Galactica'' was stripped of all but one of her operational [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII squadrons, her munitions destroyed, and her starboard landing pod converted into a pressurized [[Galactica Museum|museum]] housing (among other things) a full squadron of Mk. II Vipers (Miniseries, also in Deleted Scenes). Many argue that a "squadron" is comprised of 20 Mk. IIs, but on-screen evidence contradicts this. Galactica clearly had more than 20 Mk. IIs aboard (likely as many as 40), as in 'The Hand of God' 19 Mk. IIs are deployed - by this time over 11 Mk. IIs had been destroyed on-screen, meaning Galactica arrived at Ragnar with at least 30 Mk. IIs. The most likely assumption is that the Starboard Flight Pod contained 40 Mk. IIs (one for each launch tube), with Adama's restored Model 'found in a salvage yard' making the total 41.

With the unexpected resumption of hostilities on the part of the Cylons, ''Galactica'' quickly proves her worthiness as a warship is far from over as she withstands a direct hit from a tactical nuclear missile, and then single-handedly engages two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] after re-arming herself at [[Ragnar Anchorage]], providing an umbrella of fire cover under which [[The Fleet (RDM)|an assortment of 75 civilian ships]] containing the last survivors of the Twelve Colonies escape the Cylons.

Since the exodus of the Colonials from their overrun homeworlds, ''Galactica'' becomes both protector and provider for the Fleet. She provides direct fire-cover for the Fleet during Cylon attacks no fewer than 240 times ("[[33]]", "[[Act of Contrition]]"). She provides much of the Fleet with recycled water ([[Water]]) and she is the primary source of medical care, with groups of civilians routinely brought aboard for check-ups and the like ([[Litmus]]). ''Galactica'' also undertakes internal policing duties within the Fleet ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]").

''Galactica'' successfully goes on the offensive against the Cylons, capturing a [[tylium]] fuel mining and processing plant in the process ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

''Galactica'' is joined by [[Mercury class battlestar|the advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]], at the mid-point of the second season of the Re-imagined Series. Battlestars ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' destroy two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] as well as a critical Cylon support ship, the [[Resurrection Ship]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]). After the death of Admiral Cain, President [[Laura Roslin]] promotes William Adama to Admiral, restoring him to overall Fleet command, but now with two battlestars at his disposal ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

== Equipment ==
''Galactica'' shares the same overall technical specifications as other original Colonial battlestars of [[Original Battlestar (RDM)|her class]], with the following key differences:

===Available Flight Pods===
Only ''Galactica's'' port [[flight pod]] is in service. The starboard flight pod was enclosed and pressurized as the main museum display facility. It was violently depressurized after a [[Heavy Raider]] crashed into it ([[Scattered]]). No episode since "[[Valley of Darkness]]" addresses the status of the flight pod since its depressurization.

===Turrets===
[[Image:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg|thumb|An example of one of ''Galactica's'' large projectile weapons.]]
''Galactica's'' defenses include an array of twenty-four large turret mounted, dual-role twin-cannons, and a multitude of smaller turret mounted twin-guns located between the ''Galactica's'' "[[Frame|ribs]]", along the [[flight pod]]s. Together, these provide the ''Galactica'' with a flak field that acts as a defense perimeter against incoming hostiles ([[Miniseries]], "[[Scattered]]"). In addition, the large cannons represent ''Galactica's'' main anti-capital ship weapon, and have been shown to be quite effective against targets like [[Basestar]]s ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

===Nuclear Warheads===
''Galactica'' had five nuclear warheads as of "[[Bastille Day]]". Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] cannibalizes one to use in his [[Cylon Detector]], and Commander Adama uses another to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], leaving the ship with three.

===Vipers===
Prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', ''Galactica'' has at most 34 Vipers, of which at least six are Mk. VIIs.{{ref|vipers}} ''Galactica'' receives additional supplies from ''Pegasus'' since her arrival that has helped in repair and refurbishment of her original fighter complement, and more recently new Viper Mk. VIIs built onboard Pegasus ([[Pegasus (episode)|"Pegasus"]], "[[Scar]]").

===Raptors===
The number of [[Raptor]]s available to ''Galactica'' has been very inconsistent in the series. We currently must assume she has at least five, and left Ragnar Anchorage with at least eight.{{ref|raptors}}

===Other Craft===
*''Galactica'' currently posesses two [[Heavy Raider]]s. One was hit by ''Galactica's'' defensive fire and crash-lands into the starboard flight pod in "[[Scattered]]" (now possibly unusable). The other returns in operational status from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]". In "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]", one of Galactica's [[Heavy Raider]]s was releaved of its FTL navigation system for use by the [[Caprica]] rescue mission.
*An experimental stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]], is constructed using spare parts in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". (Destroyed in the episode "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

=== Crew ===
Before the attack, ''Galactica'' has approximately 2,800 crewmen, while awaiting its decomissioning.{{ref|originalcrew}} By the time of the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', attrition has reduced this number to 2,660.{{ref|crew}} {{ref|crew}} Since "[[Act of Contrition]]", ''Galactica's'' offensive capability has also been greatly hampered by the number of [[List of Pilots|qualified pilots]] available, although ''Galactica's'' reunion with ''Pegasus'' has ameliorated this substantially.

==Running Tallies==
#{{note|vipers}}Running tally of Vipers:
#* With one operational flight pod, ''Galactica'' was apparently equipped with one squadron of Mk. VII [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]s. A second squadron of Mk. IIs formed part of a museum exhibit in the starboard flight pod.
#*The last squadron of Mk. VII's under the command of [[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]], ''Galactica's'' [[CAG]], are lost en-route to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] when they are disabled by a backdoor in the [[Command Navigation Program]] and subsequently destroyed.
#*At least 11 Vipers, all Mk. IIs, launch during the first attack on ''Galactica'', one of which is destroyed.
#*Three Mk. VII Vipers are seen in formation inside the Fleet before they hook up with ''Galactica''. These could have been left behind with the non-FTL capable ships, or could have been carried to Ragnar in other ships as Apollo was. This would help to account for the discrepancy of fighters between the Miniseries and "[[Act of Contrition]]" (see below).
#*Thirty-nine Vipers launch at the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]], of which eight are destroyed and one is severely damaged (piloted by [[Lee Adama]]), leaving 31. Some Vipers damaged in the previous engagement are possibly held for repairs.
#*In "[[Act of Contrition]]", Lee Adama states that there were 40 Vipers left on the ship. Perhaps this discrepancy can be accounted for by other Mk. VIIs that happened to find their way to the fleet at Ragnar?
#*At the end of that episode, one Viper, piloted by [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]], is severely damaged, and a second, piloted by [[Kara Thrace]], is destroyed in a crash landing on a nearby moon.
#*In "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", Tyrol reports that due to atmospheric [[SAR]] operations, 13 Mk. II's and one Mk. VII are down for repairs, and that he's "out". Presumably the remaining 25 constitute the [[CAP]] and [[Alert Fighters]].
#*One additional Viper is "slapped together from pieces of the others". This doesn't change the total count, since still-useable parts are just being shuffled around. The damage inflicted by the atmosphere of the moon during Thrace's [[SAR]] is apparently a matter of cleaning time, not total failure and replacement.
#*In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", Strike Force Two is comprised of twelve Vipers. Three of these, piloted by an unidentified pilot, [[Perry|Chuckles]], and [[Stepchild]], are destroyed. Strike Force One is comprised of at least seven Vipers. At least one of these, piloted by [[Fireball]], is destroyed.
#*According to the official Sci-Fi website, following ''Galactica's'' attack on a Cylon [[tylium]] mine in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", there are 35 remaining Vipers aboard ''Galactica''. This is consistant with the losses seen in that episode and "[[Act of Contrition]]", assuming that [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]]'s Viper was recovered and repaired.
#*At least 18 Vipers (11 Mk. IIs, 6 Mk. VIIs, one unidentified) are launched to defend the ship in "[[Scattered]]". None are destroyed onscreen, but in "[[Fragged]]", Apollo remarks that "seven birds" are down for repairs.
#*[[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] crashes Viper 591 into the flight deck in "[[Final Cut]]". It may have been salvaged - Hot Dog's Viper is damaged much more severely in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Chief Tyrol declares Viper 289 a total loss and has it scrapped in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". This would leave 34 remaining Vipers.
#*42 Vipers are deployed in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", including 7 Mk. VIIs. This flatly contradicts the counts given in previous episodes and official statements, and also ignores the continued attrition of Vipers noted by [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] in the episode itself. This should be regarded as a visual effects gaffe.
#*15 Vipers are launched against ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' in the [[Pegasus (episode)|episode]] of the same name.
#{{note|raptors}}Running tally of Raptors:
#* No official estimate is given of ''Galactica's'' initial Raptor loadout.
#* The Raptor accompanying [[Jackson Spencer|Ripper]]'s squadron, crewed by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], manages to escape destruction but is forced to land for repairs on nearby [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. It later returns intact to ''Galactica'' ([[Miniseries]]).
#* Raptors are deployed to five nearby systems in [[Water]].
#* Two Raptors, piloted by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Stubbs]], perform reconaissance duties in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", three Raptors are deployed to scout [[Kobol]], but unexpectedly encounter a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit. [[Raptor 3]] is immediately destroyed by collision with a [[Raider]]. [[Raptor 1]] is forced to crash land on Kobol, and only [[Raptor 275]] survives to report back to "Galactica".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Part II]]", three Raptors are sent to board "[[Colonial One]]" while [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]] simultaneously take a fourth to deliver a nuclear bomb to the Kobol basestar. All four craft return safely.
#* In "[[Fragged]]", [[Raptor 305]] is scrapped for parts in order to mount a two-raptor [[SAR|search-and-rescue]] mission. This seemingly takes place very late in the same day as "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", which makes the sudden shortage mysterious.
#* Tigh orders a Raptor deployed to each ship refusing to resupply ''Galactica'' in "[[Resistance]]". At that time, these ships number at least eight, and [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] cites manpower shortage as the chief limiting factor. This means that either Tigh is unaware of ''Galactica's'' resources (unlikely), or the ship has or acquires 11 Raptors in total by the time they left the Colonies (which makes the equipment shortage in "[[Fragged]]" even harder to explain). At the end of this episode, Apollo escapes with one Raptor which he abandons on [[Cloud Nine]].
#* In "[[The Farm]]", Tigh explicitly states that they have "five raptors with [[Colonial Marine Corps|marine]] fire teams standing by". Including the two destroyed in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" and the one scrapped in "[[Fragged]]", this implies an initial complement of at least eight. If the Raptor stolen in "[[Resistance]]" has not yet been returned, the number would be nine.
#{{note|originalcrew}}Original crew:
#*In the Miniseries, Adama states that he has "almost 2,000" crew on board ''Galactica''.
#*In "[[Water]]," Baltar says there are 45,265 civilians in the Fleet. Given the stats of [[Survivor Count|total fleet population]] in that episode, that means there were 2,693 military personnel in the Fleet at the time. It is unclear if this was a gaffe or a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|retcon]], but the more recent figure is generally accepted.
#*In addition to the 85 killed in the flight pod fire (Miniseries), 29 Viper pilots are lost on-screen in the first three sorties, and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] goes MIA (all events in the [[Miniseries]]). This makes for a pre-attack total of 2,808 crewmembers.
#{{note|crew}}Running tally of crewmembers:
#*Thirteen pilots are killed in "[[Act of Contrition]]". Eight are recruited to replace them, leaving a net loss of five.
#*Three crewmen are killed by a suicide bomber in "[[Litmus]]".
#*Starbuck is seen giving combat flight training to fourteen [[nuggets]] in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", suggesting an additional six nuggets had been selected by that point. Apollo earlier alludes to a second group of trainees in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Four Viper pilots are killed in action in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
#*Ten die on [[Raptor 3]] in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", and Sharon Valerii is revealed as a Cylon agent.
#*Eleven crew are killed in the Cylon boarding action in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".
#*Four of the crew of [[Raptor 1]] die by the time the survivors are rescued in "[[Fragged]]".
#*Helo returns in "[[Home, Part I]]."
#*Subtracting these losses from the total given in "Water" yields no more than 2,662 crewmembers prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''.
#*''Galactica's'' crew complement is currently unknown as of the Season 2 finale, although Admiral Adama mentions that it is vaguely half of its former strength

[[Category:Battlestars]] [[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]] [[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Galactica (RDM)]]

Galactica (TRS)

2006-03-31T22:22:00Z

David Templar: /* Turrets */ Added note on anti-ship role, de-emphasized flak role

:''For the Original Series ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (TOS)]]. For the Video Game ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (Video Game)]].'' 

[[Image:Bsg-bsg-1.jpg|thumb|300px|The historic battlestar ''Galactica'']]

'''''Galactica'' (BS 75)''' is the most famous warship in the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Built in time to participate in the [[Cylon War]], she remained the only military vessel without integrated [[Computers|computer networks]]. Without networked computers, ''Galactica'' never upgraded to the new [[Command Navigation Program|integrated defense system software]] developed by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Number Six|team]]. Because of this and other fortune, she became one of only [[Pegasus (RDM)|two]] battlestars to survive the renewed Cylon attack on the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], some 40 years after the end of the first war.

== Fleet Details ==

'''Designation''': warship, battlestar type, [[Galactica type battlestar|original battlestar class]] (class name unknown).

'''Deployment''': Formerly an element of the [[75th Battlestar Group]] (BSG 75)

'''Current Status''': One of [[Pegasus (RDM) |two]] remaining Colonial military units. ''Galactica'' is commanded by [[William Adama]].

== History ==

''Galactica'' was one of the twelve first battlestars to be laid down by the Colonials. Initially they built a battlestar to represent each colony, and Galactica was the battlestar that represented [[Caprica]]. As such, she is some 50 years old (Mini Series). Following the outbreak of Cylon hostilities several more battlestars were built. ''Galactica's'' first commander was [[Peter Dash]] ([[Mini-Series]]).

The original battlestars were all designed with non-integrated computer systems to avoid the Cylons' demonstrated ability to override or subvert networked command and control systems early in the war ([[Mini-Series]]). Rather than technological sophistication, the battlestar depended on its sheer bulk and defensive / offensive capabilities to ward off any threats to itself or the Colonies.

Following the [[Armistice Station|armistice]] with the Cylons, and their withdrawal from Colonial space, ''Galactica'' and her sister ships continued to serve the Twelve Colonies in a wide variety of roles. While her surviving sister ships were scrapped or upgraded to match the systems capabilities of more modern Colonial vessels, ''Galactica'' continued in service without her systems being fully networked or integrated, making her unique among Colonial military vessels ([[Miniseries]]).

With her active career drawing to a close, a decision was taken to retire ''Galactica'' and decommission her from service. [[Colonial Fleet]] chose not to scrap her, but to turn her into a combination of living museum to the original Cylon War and an educational center, with her conversion being overseen by her final commander, [[William Adama]] ([[Miniseries]]).

At the time of her formal decommissioning ceremony, ''Galactica'' was stripped of all but one of her operational [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII squadrons, her munitions destroyed, and her starboard landing pod converted into a pressurized [[Galactica Museum|museum]] housing (among other things) a full squadron of Mk. II Vipers (Miniseries, also in Deleted Scenes). Many argue that a "squadron" is comprised of 20 Mk. IIs, but on-screen evidence contradicts this. Galactica clearly had more than 20 Mk. IIs aboard (likely as many as 40), as in 'The Hand of God' 19 Mk. IIs are deployed - by this time over 11 Mk. IIs had been destroyed on-screen, meaning Galactica arrived at Ragnar with at least 30 Mk. IIs. The most likely assumption is that the Starboard Flight Pod contained 40 Mk. IIs (one for each launch tube), with Adama's restored Model 'found in a salvage yard' making the total 41.

With the unexpected resumption of hostilities on the part of the Cylons, ''Galactica'' quickly proves her worthiness as a warship is far from over as she withstands a direct hit from a tactical nuclear missile, and then single-handedly engages two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] after re-arming herself at [[Ragnar Anchorage]], providing an umbrella of fire cover under which [[The Fleet (RDM)|an assortment of 75 civilian ships]] containing the last survivors of the Twelve Colonies escape the Cylons.

Since the exodus of the Colonials from their overrun homeworlds, ''Galactica'' becomes both protector and provider for the Fleet. She provides direct fire-cover for the Fleet during Cylon attacks no fewer than 240 times ("[[33]]", "[[Act of Contrition]]"). She provides much of the Fleet with recycled water ([[Water]]) and she is the primary source of medical care, with groups of civilians routinely brought aboard for check-ups and the like ([[Litmus]]). ''Galactica'' also undertakes internal policing duties within the Fleet ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]").

''Galactica'' successfully goes on the offensive against the Cylons, capturing a [[tylium]] fuel mining and processing plant in the process ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

''Galactica'' is joined by [[Mercury class battlestar|the advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]], at the mid-point of the second season of the Re-imagined Series. Battlestars ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' destroy two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] as well as a critical Cylon support ship, the [[Resurrection Ship]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]). After the death of Admiral Cain, President [[Laura Roslin]] promotes William Adama to Admiral, restoring him to overall Fleet command, but now with two battlestars at his disposal ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

== Equipment ==
''Galactica'' shares the same overall technical specifications as other original Colonial battlestars of [[Original Battlestar (RDM)|her class]], with the following key differences:

===Available Flight Pods===
Only ''Galactica's'' port [[flight pod]] is in service. The starboard flight pod was enclosed and pressurized as the main museum display facility. It was violently depressurized after a [[Heavy Raider]] crashed into it ([[Scattered]]). No episode since "[[Valley of Darkness]]" addresses the status of the flight pod since its depressurization.

===Turrets===
[[Image:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg|thumb|An example of one of ''Galactica's'' large projectile weapons.]]
''Galactica's'' defenses include an array of twenty-four large turret mounted, dual-role twin-cannons, and a multitude of smaller turret mounted twin-guns located between the ''Galactica's'' "[[Frame|ribs]]", along the [[flight pod]]s. Together, these provide the ''Galactica'' with a flak field that acts as a defense perimeter against incoming hostiles ([[Miniseries]], "[[Scattered]]"). In addition, the large cannons represent ''Galactica's'' main anti-capital ship weapon, and have been shown to be quite effective against targets like [[Basestar]]s ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

===Nuclear Warheads===
''Galactica'' had five nuclear warheads as of "[[Bastille Day]]". Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] cannibalizes one to use in his [[Cylon Detector]], and Commander Adama uses another to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], leaving the ship with three.

===Vipers===
Prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', ''Galactica'' has at most 34 Vipers, of which at least six are Mk. VIIs.{{ref|vipers}} ''Galactica'' receives additional supplies from ''Pegasus'' since her arrival that has helped in repair and refurbishment of her original fighter complement, and more recently new Viper Mk. VIIs built onboard Pegasus ([[Pegasus (episode)|"Pegasus"]], "[[Scar]]").

===Raptors===
The number of [[Raptor]]s available to ''Galactica'' has been very inconsistent in the series. We currently must assume she has at least five, and left Ragnar Anchorage with at least eight.{{ref|raptors}}

===Other Craft===
*''Galactica'' currently posesses two [[Heavy Raider]]s. One crash-lands into the starboard flight pod in "[[Scattered]]" (now possibly unusable). The other returns in operational status from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]".
*An experimental stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]], is constructed using spare parts in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". (Destroyed in the episode "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

=== Crew ===
Before the attack, ''Galactica'' has approximately 2,800 crewmen, while awaiting its decomissioning.{{ref|originalcrew}} By the time of the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', attrition has reduced this number to 2,660.{{ref|crew}} {{ref|crew}} Since "[[Act of Contrition]]", ''Galactica's'' offensive capability has also been greatly hampered by the number of [[List of Pilots|qualified pilots]] available, although ''Galactica's'' reunion with ''Pegasus'' has ameliorated this substantially.

==Running Tallies==
#{{note|vipers}}Running tally of Vipers:
#* With one operational flight pod, ''Galactica'' was apparently equipped with one squadron of Mk. VII [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]s. A second squadron of Mk. IIs formed part of a museum exhibit in the starboard flight pod.
#*The last squadron of Mk. VII's under the command of [[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]], ''Galactica's'' [[CAG]], are lost en-route to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] when they are disabled by a backdoor in the [[Command Navigation Program]] and subsequently destroyed.
#*At least 11 Vipers, all Mk. IIs, launch during the first attack on ''Galactica'', one of which is destroyed.
#*Three Mk. VII Vipers are seen in formation inside the Fleet before they hook up with ''Galactica''. These could have been left behind with the non-FTL capable ships, or could have been carried to Ragnar in other ships as Apollo was. This would help to account for the discrepancy of fighters between the Miniseries and "[[Act of Contrition]]" (see below).
#*Thirty-nine Vipers launch at the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]], of which eight are destroyed and one is severely damaged (piloted by [[Lee Adama]]), leaving 31. Some Vipers damaged in the previous engagement are possibly held for repairs.
#*In "[[Act of Contrition]]", Lee Adama states that there were 40 Vipers left on the ship. Perhaps this discrepancy can be accounted for by other Mk. VIIs that happened to find their way to the fleet at Ragnar?
#*At the end of that episode, one Viper, piloted by [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]], is severely damaged, and a second, piloted by [[Kara Thrace]], is destroyed in a crash landing on a nearby moon.
#*In "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", Tyrol reports that due to atmospheric [[SAR]] operations, 13 Mk. II's and one Mk. VII are down for repairs, and that he's "out". Presumably the remaining 25 constitute the [[CAP]] and [[Alert Fighters]].
#*One additional Viper is "slapped together from pieces of the others". This doesn't change the total count, since still-useable parts are just being shuffled around. The damage inflicted by the atmosphere of the moon during Thrace's [[SAR]] is apparently a matter of cleaning time, not total failure and replacement.
#*In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", Strike Force Two is comprised of twelve Vipers. Three of these, piloted by an unidentified pilot, [[Perry|Chuckles]], and [[Stepchild]], are destroyed. Strike Force One is comprised of at least seven Vipers. At least one of these, piloted by [[Fireball]], is destroyed.
#*According to the official Sci-Fi website, following ''Galactica's'' attack on a Cylon [[tylium]] mine in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", there are 35 remaining Vipers aboard ''Galactica''. This is consistant with the losses seen in that episode and "[[Act of Contrition]]", assuming that [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]]'s Viper was recovered and repaired.
#*At least 18 Vipers (11 Mk. IIs, 6 Mk. VIIs, one unidentified) are launched to defend the ship in "[[Scattered]]". None are destroyed onscreen, but in "[[Fragged]]", Apollo remarks that "seven birds" are down for repairs.
#*[[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] crashes Viper 591 into the flight deck in "[[Final Cut]]". It may have been salvaged - Hot Dog's Viper is damaged much more severely in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Chief Tyrol declares Viper 289 a total loss and has it scrapped in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". This would leave 34 remaining Vipers.
#*42 Vipers are deployed in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", including 7 Mk. VIIs. This flatly contradicts the counts given in previous episodes and official statements, and also ignores the continued attrition of Vipers noted by [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] in the episode itself. This should be regarded as a visual effects gaffe.
#*15 Vipers are launched against ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' in the [[Pegasus (episode)|episode]] of the same name.
#{{note|raptors}}Running tally of Raptors:
#* No official estimate is given of ''Galactica's'' initial Raptor loadout.
#* The Raptor accompanying [[Jackson Spencer|Ripper]]'s squadron, crewed by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], manages to escape destruction but is forced to land for repairs on nearby [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. It later returns intact to ''Galactica'' ([[Miniseries]]).
#* Raptors are deployed to five nearby systems in [[Water]].
#* Two Raptors, piloted by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Stubbs]], perform reconaissance duties in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", three Raptors are deployed to scout [[Kobol]], but unexpectedly encounter a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit. [[Raptor 3]] is immediately destroyed by collision with a [[Raider]]. [[Raptor 1]] is forced to crash land on Kobol, and only [[Raptor 275]] survives to report back to "Galactica".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Part II]]", three Raptors are sent to board "[[Colonial One]]" while [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]] simultaneously take a fourth to deliver a nuclear bomb to the Kobol basestar. All four craft return safely.
#* In "[[Fragged]]", [[Raptor 305]] is scrapped for parts in order to mount a two-raptor [[SAR|search-and-rescue]] mission. This seemingly takes place very late in the same day as "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", which makes the sudden shortage mysterious.
#* Tigh orders a Raptor deployed to each ship refusing to resupply ''Galactica'' in "[[Resistance]]". At that time, these ships number at least eight, and [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] cites manpower shortage as the chief limiting factor. This means that either Tigh is unaware of ''Galactica's'' resources (unlikely), or the ship has or acquires 11 Raptors in total by the time they left the Colonies (which makes the equipment shortage in "[[Fragged]]" even harder to explain). At the end of this episode, Apollo escapes with one Raptor which he abandons on [[Cloud Nine]].
#* In "[[The Farm]]", Tigh explicitly states that they have "five raptors with [[Colonial Marine Corps|marine]] fire teams standing by". Including the two destroyed in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" and the one scrapped in "[[Fragged]]", this implies an initial complement of at least eight. If the Raptor stolen in "[[Resistance]]" has not yet been returned, the number would be nine.
#{{note|originalcrew}}Original crew:
#*In the Miniseries, Adama states that he has "almost 2,000" crew on board ''Galactica''.
#*In "[[Water]]," Baltar says there are 45,265 civilians in the Fleet. Given the stats of [[Survivor Count|total fleet population]] in that episode, that means there were 2,693 military personnel in the Fleet at the time. It is unclear if this was a gaffe or a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|retcon]], but the more recent figure is generally accepted.
#*In addition to the 85 killed in the flight pod fire (Miniseries), 29 Viper pilots are lost on-screen in the first three sorties, and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] goes MIA (all events in the [[Miniseries]]). This makes for a pre-attack total of 2,808 crewmembers.
#{{note|crew}}Running tally of crewmembers:
#*Thirteen pilots are killed in "[[Act of Contrition]]". Eight are recruited to replace them, leaving a net loss of five.
#*Three crewmen are killed by a suicide bomber in "[[Litmus]]".
#*Starbuck is seen giving combat flight training to fourteen [[nuggets]] in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", suggesting an additional six nuggets had been selected by that point. Apollo earlier alludes to a second group of trainees in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Four Viper pilots are killed in action in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
#*Ten die on [[Raptor 3]] in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", and Sharon Valerii is revealed as a Cylon agent.
#*Eleven crew are killed in the Cylon boarding action in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".
#*Four of the crew of [[Raptor 1]] die by the time the survivors are rescued in "[[Fragged]]".
#*Helo returns in "[[Home, Part I]]."
#*Subtracting these losses from the total given in "Water" yields no more than 2,662 crewmembers prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''.
#*''Galactica's'' crew complement is currently unknown as of the Season 2 finale, although Admiral Adama mentions that it is vaguely half of its former strength

[[Category:Battlestars]] [[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]] [[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Galactica (RDM)]]

Galactica (TRS)

2006-03-31T22:09:58Z

David Templar: /* Vipers */ Viper entry modification

:''For the Original Series ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (TOS)]]. For the Video Game ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (Video Game)]].'' 

[[Image:Bsg-bsg-1.jpg|thumb|300px|The historic battlestar ''Galactica'']]

'''''Galactica'' (BS 75)''' is the most famous warship in the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Built in time to participate in the [[Cylon War]], she remained the only military vessel without integrated [[Computers|computer networks]]. Without networked computers, ''Galactica'' never upgraded to the new [[Command Navigation Program|integrated defense system software]] developed by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Number Six|team]]. Because of this and other fortune, she became one of only [[Pegasus (RDM)|two]] battlestars to survive the renewed Cylon attack on the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], some 40 years after the end of the first war.

== Fleet Details ==

'''Designation''': warship, battlestar type, [[Galactica type battlestar|original battlestar class]] (class name unknown).

'''Deployment''': Formerly an element of the [[75th Battlestar Group]] (BSG 75)

'''Current Status''': One of [[Pegasus (RDM) |two]] remaining Colonial military units. ''Galactica'' is commanded by [[William Adama]].

== History ==

''Galactica'' was one of the twelve first battlestars to be laid down by the Colonials. Initially they built a battlestar to represent each colony, and Galactica was the battlestar that represented [[Caprica]]. As such, she is some 50 years old (Mini Series). Following the outbreak of Cylon hostilities several more battlestars were built. ''Galactica's'' first commander was [[Peter Dash]] ([[Mini-Series]]).

The original battlestars were all designed with non-integrated computer systems to avoid the Cylons' demonstrated ability to override or subvert networked command and control systems early in the war ([[Mini-Series]]). Rather than technological sophistication, the battlestar depended on its sheer bulk and defensive / offensive capabilities to ward off any threats to itself or the Colonies.

Following the [[Armistice Station|armistice]] with the Cylons, and their withdrawal from Colonial space, ''Galactica'' and her sister ships continued to serve the Twelve Colonies in a wide variety of roles. While her surviving sister ships were scrapped or upgraded to match the systems capabilities of more modern Colonial vessels, ''Galactica'' continued in service without her systems being fully networked or integrated, making her unique among Colonial military vessels ([[Miniseries]]).

With her active career drawing to a close, a decision was taken to retire ''Galactica'' and decommission her from service. [[Colonial Fleet]] chose not to scrap her, but to turn her into a combination of living museum to the original Cylon War and an educational center, with her conversion being overseen by her final commander, [[William Adama]] ([[Miniseries]]).

At the time of her formal decommissioning ceremony, ''Galactica'' was stripped of all but one of her operational [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII squadrons, her munitions destroyed, and her starboard landing pod converted into a pressurized [[Galactica Museum|museum]] housing (among other things) a full squadron of Mk. II Vipers (Miniseries, also in Deleted Scenes). Many argue that a "squadron" is comprised of 20 Mk. IIs, but on-screen evidence contradicts this. Galactica clearly had more than 20 Mk. IIs aboard (likely as many as 40), as in 'The Hand of God' 19 Mk. IIs are deployed - by this time over 11 Mk. IIs had been destroyed on-screen, meaning Galactica arrived at Ragnar with at least 30 Mk. IIs. The most likely assumption is that the Starboard Flight Pod contained 40 Mk. IIs (one for each launch tube), with Adama's restored Model 'found in a salvage yard' making the total 41.

With the unexpected resumption of hostilities on the part of the Cylons, ''Galactica'' quickly proves her worthiness as a warship is far from over as she withstands a direct hit from a tactical nuclear missile, and then single-handedly engages two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] after re-arming herself at [[Ragnar Anchorage]], providing an umbrella of fire cover under which [[The Fleet (RDM)|an assortment of 75 civilian ships]] containing the last survivors of the Twelve Colonies escape the Cylons.

Since the exodus of the Colonials from their overrun homeworlds, ''Galactica'' becomes both protector and provider for the Fleet. She provides direct fire-cover for the Fleet during Cylon attacks no fewer than 240 times ("[[33]]", "[[Act of Contrition]]"). She provides much of the Fleet with recycled water ([[Water]]) and she is the primary source of medical care, with groups of civilians routinely brought aboard for check-ups and the like ([[Litmus]]). ''Galactica'' also undertakes internal policing duties within the Fleet ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]").

''Galactica'' successfully goes on the offensive against the Cylons, capturing a [[tylium]] fuel mining and processing plant in the process ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

''Galactica'' is joined by [[Mercury class battlestar|the advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]], at the mid-point of the second season of the Re-imagined Series. Battlestars ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' destroy two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] as well as a critical Cylon support ship, the [[Resurrection Ship]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]). After the death of Admiral Cain, President [[Laura Roslin]] promotes William Adama to Admiral, restoring him to overall Fleet command, but now with two battlestars at his disposal ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

== Equipment ==
''Galactica'' shares the same overall technical specifications as other original Colonial battlestars of [[Original Battlestar (RDM)|her class]], with the following key differences:

===Available Flight Pods===
Only ''Galactica's'' port [[flight pod]] is in service. The starboard flight pod was enclosed and pressurized as the main museum display facility. It was violently depressurized after a [[Heavy Raider]] crashed into it ([[Scattered]]). No episode since "[[Valley of Darkness]]" addresses the status of the flight pod since its depressurization.

===Turrets===
[[Image:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg|thumb|An example of one of ''Galactica's'' large flak weapons.]]
''Galactica's'' defenses include an array of twenty-four large turret mounted twin-cannons, and a multitude of smaller turret mounted twin-guns located between the ''Galactica's'' "[[Frame|ribs]]". Together, these provide the ''Galactica'' with a flak field that acts as a defense perimeter against incoming hostiles ([[Miniseries]], "[[Scattered]]").

===Nuclear Warheads===
''Galactica'' had five nuclear warheads as of "[[Bastille Day]]". Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] cannibalizes one to use in his [[Cylon Detector]], and Commander Adama uses another to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], leaving the ship with three.

===Vipers===
Prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', ''Galactica'' has at most 34 Vipers, of which at least six are Mk. VIIs.{{ref|vipers}} ''Galactica'' receives additional supplies from ''Pegasus'' since her arrival that has helped in repair and refurbishment of her original fighter complement, and more recently new Viper Mk. VIIs built onboard Pegasus ([[Pegasus (episode)|"Pegasus"]], "[[Scar]]").

===Raptors===
The number of [[Raptor]]s available to ''Galactica'' has been very inconsistent in the series. We currently must assume she has at least five, and left Ragnar Anchorage with at least eight.{{ref|raptors}}

===Other Craft===
*''Galactica'' currently posesses two [[Heavy Raider]]s. One crash-lands into the starboard flight pod in "[[Scattered]]" (now possibly unusable). The other returns in operational status from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]".
*An experimental stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]], is constructed using spare parts in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". (Destroyed in the episode "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

=== Crew ===
Before the attack, ''Galactica'' has approximately 2,800 crewmen, while awaiting its decomissioning.{{ref|originalcrew}} By the time of the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', attrition has reduced this number to 2,660.{{ref|crew}} {{ref|crew}} Since "[[Act of Contrition]]", ''Galactica's'' offensive capability has also been greatly hampered by the number of [[List of Pilots|qualified pilots]] available, although ''Galactica's'' reunion with ''Pegasus'' has ameliorated this substantially.

==Running Tallies==
#{{note|vipers}}Running tally of Vipers:
#* With one operational flight pod, ''Galactica'' was apparently equipped with one squadron of Mk. VII [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]s. A second squadron of Mk. IIs formed part of a museum exhibit in the starboard flight pod.
#*The last squadron of Mk. VII's under the command of [[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]], ''Galactica's'' [[CAG]], are lost en-route to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] when they are disabled by a backdoor in the [[Command Navigation Program]] and subsequently destroyed.
#*At least 11 Vipers, all Mk. IIs, launch during the first attack on ''Galactica'', one of which is destroyed.
#*Three Mk. VII Vipers are seen in formation inside the Fleet before they hook up with ''Galactica''. These could have been left behind with the non-FTL capable ships, or could have been carried to Ragnar in other ships as Apollo was. This would help to account for the discrepancy of fighters between the Miniseries and "[[Act of Contrition]]" (see below).
#*Thirty-nine Vipers launch at the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]], of which eight are destroyed and one is severely damaged (piloted by [[Lee Adama]]), leaving 31. Some Vipers damaged in the previous engagement are possibly held for repairs.
#*In "[[Act of Contrition]]", Lee Adama states that there were 40 Vipers left on the ship. Perhaps this discrepancy can be accounted for by other Mk. VIIs that happened to find their way to the fleet at Ragnar?
#*At the end of that episode, one Viper, piloted by [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]], is severely damaged, and a second, piloted by [[Kara Thrace]], is destroyed in a crash landing on a nearby moon.
#*In "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", Tyrol reports that due to atmospheric [[SAR]] operations, 13 Mk. II's and one Mk. VII are down for repairs, and that he's "out". Presumably the remaining 25 constitute the [[CAP]] and [[Alert Fighters]].
#*One additional Viper is "slapped together from pieces of the others". This doesn't change the total count, since still-useable parts are just being shuffled around. The damage inflicted by the atmosphere of the moon during Thrace's [[SAR]] is apparently a matter of cleaning time, not total failure and replacement.
#*In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", Strike Force Two is comprised of twelve Vipers. Three of these, piloted by an unidentified pilot, [[Perry|Chuckles]], and [[Stepchild]], are destroyed. Strike Force One is comprised of at least seven Vipers. At least one of these, piloted by [[Fireball]], is destroyed.
#*According to the official Sci-Fi website, following ''Galactica's'' attack on a Cylon [[tylium]] mine in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", there are 35 remaining Vipers aboard ''Galactica''. This is consistant with the losses seen in that episode and "[[Act of Contrition]]", assuming that [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]]'s Viper was recovered and repaired.
#*At least 18 Vipers (11 Mk. IIs, 6 Mk. VIIs, one unidentified) are launched to defend the ship in "[[Scattered]]". None are destroyed onscreen, but in "[[Fragged]]", Apollo remarks that "seven birds" are down for repairs.
#*[[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] crashes Viper 591 into the flight deck in "[[Final Cut]]". It may have been salvaged - Hot Dog's Viper is damaged much more severely in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Chief Tyrol declares Viper 289 a total loss and has it scrapped in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". This would leave 34 remaining Vipers.
#*42 Vipers are deployed in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", including 7 Mk. VIIs. This flatly contradicts the counts given in previous episodes and official statements, and also ignores the continued attrition of Vipers noted by [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] in the episode itself. This should be regarded as a visual effects gaffe.
#*15 Vipers are launched against ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' in the [[Pegasus (episode)|episode]] of the same name.
#{{note|raptors}}Running tally of Raptors:
#* No official estimate is given of ''Galactica's'' initial Raptor loadout.
#* The Raptor accompanying [[Jackson Spencer|Ripper]]'s squadron, crewed by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], manages to escape destruction but is forced to land for repairs on nearby [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. It later returns intact to ''Galactica'' ([[Miniseries]]).
#* Raptors are deployed to five nearby systems in [[Water]].
#* Two Raptors, piloted by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Stubbs]], perform reconaissance duties in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", three Raptors are deployed to scout [[Kobol]], but unexpectedly encounter a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit. [[Raptor 3]] is immediately destroyed by collision with a [[Raider]]. [[Raptor 1]] is forced to crash land on Kobol, and only [[Raptor 275]] survives to report back to "Galactica".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Part II]]", three Raptors are sent to board "[[Colonial One]]" while [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]] simultaneously take a fourth to deliver a nuclear bomb to the Kobol basestar. All four craft return safely.
#* In "[[Fragged]]", [[Raptor 305]] is scrapped for parts in order to mount a two-raptor [[SAR|search-and-rescue]] mission. This seemingly takes place very late in the same day as "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", which makes the sudden shortage mysterious.
#* Tigh orders a Raptor deployed to each ship refusing to resupply ''Galactica'' in "[[Resistance]]". At that time, these ships number at least eight, and [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] cites manpower shortage as the chief limiting factor. This means that either Tigh is unaware of ''Galactica's'' resources (unlikely), or the ship has or acquires 11 Raptors in total by the time they left the Colonies (which makes the equipment shortage in "[[Fragged]]" even harder to explain). At the end of this episode, Apollo escapes with one Raptor which he abandons on [[Cloud Nine]].
#* In "[[The Farm]]", Tigh explicitly states that they have "five raptors with [[Colonial Marine Corps|marine]] fire teams standing by". Including the two destroyed in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" and the one scrapped in "[[Fragged]]", this implies an initial complement of at least eight. If the Raptor stolen in "[[Resistance]]" has not yet been returned, the number would be nine.
#{{note|originalcrew}}Original crew:
#*In the Miniseries, Adama states that he has "almost 2,000" crew on board ''Galactica''.
#*In "[[Water]]," Baltar says there are 45,265 civilians in the Fleet. Given the stats of [[Survivor Count|total fleet population]] in that episode, that means there were 2,693 military personnel in the Fleet at the time. It is unclear if this was a gaffe or a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|retcon]], but the more recent figure is generally accepted.
#*In addition to the 85 killed in the flight pod fire (Miniseries), 29 Viper pilots are lost on-screen in the first three sorties, and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] goes MIA (all events in the [[Miniseries]]). This makes for a pre-attack total of 2,808 crewmembers.
#{{note|crew}}Running tally of crewmembers:
#*Thirteen pilots are killed in "[[Act of Contrition]]". Eight are recruited to replace them, leaving a net loss of five.
#*Three crewmen are killed by a suicide bomber in "[[Litmus]]".
#*Starbuck is seen giving combat flight training to fourteen [[nuggets]] in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", suggesting an additional six nuggets had been selected by that point. Apollo earlier alludes to a second group of trainees in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Four Viper pilots are killed in action in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
#*Ten die on [[Raptor 3]] in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", and Sharon Valerii is revealed as a Cylon agent.
#*Eleven crew are killed in the Cylon boarding action in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".
#*Four of the crew of [[Raptor 1]] die by the time the survivors are rescued in "[[Fragged]]".
#*Helo returns in "[[Home, Part I]]."
#*Subtracting these losses from the total given in "Water" yields no more than 2,662 crewmembers prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''.
#*''Galactica's'' crew complement is currently unknown as of the Season 2 finale, although Admiral Adama mentions that it is vaguely half of its former strength

[[Category:Battlestars]] [[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]] [[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Galactica (RDM)]]

Talk:Cylon detector/Archive 1

2006-03-31T21:56:54Z

David Templar: /* Should this article be re-written? */

I'm rather short on time at the moment, so if someone would be so kind as to go back and fill in information such as episode names and such, that would be awesome. --[[User:207.160.210.253|207.160.210.253]] 21:41, 14 Apr 2005 (EDT)
:I added links to numerous episodes and a few characters. 14 Apr 2005 [[User:BillCook|BillCook]] [[User Talk:BillCook|Talk]]

== Should this article be re-written? ==

As I'm reading this article, there is a definite problem which I have seen crop up. There is the underlying assumption that Number Six is real; since, at best, this claim is nebulous, I believe that this page should be re-written to factor this in. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:51, 27 March 2006 (CST)
:I also have a problem with the whole incident involving Sharon's test. I think it's a plot hole that Baltar went from merely "Holy frak there's a Cylon in the room with me and if I tell her she's a Cylon she'll kill me" to "I'm not going to tell anyone that Sharon, a key member of the crew responsible for protecting the Fleet against Cylons and hey, probably the person who set those charges onboard Galactica a couple months back, is a Cylon. Not going to tell anyone, even now that she's out of the room. Now That I've locked the door. Now that I've got a perfectly secure line to Commander Adama. Nope, not going to tell anyone, because I'm Gaius Baltar, I don't make a frak bit of sense and I'm RDM's own bipedal plot hole." --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 21:20, 29 March 2006 (CST)
::The knowledge of Sharon's true nature could have served him later. Remeber, he isn't on anybody's side. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 30 March 2006

::: Plus he believes he is doing God's work, and thus would more than likely be protected from any Cylon act. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:05, 29 March 2006 (CST)

::::He's self-serving more than pious any day of the week. The whole God thing was *never* consistent from episode to episode, and I don't see how revealing the fact that Sharon is a Cylon later than sooner would do anything besides making him criminally complacent. Not to mention he'd have to ignore the fact that she was probably the one running around blowing up parts of the Galactica months earlier, and being as self-serving as he is, she being a Cylon represents a danger, not an asset. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 15:56, 31 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Cylon detector/Archive 1

2006-03-30T03:20:42Z

David Templar: /* Should this article be re-written? */

Talk:Class-D nuclear warhead/Archive 1

2006-03-30T03:07:16Z

David Templar: /* Gina's nuke was not a Class D warhead */

I really don't know what level of speculation is appropriate here. I wouldn't have gone off on this nuclear bomb design digression, except that the previous revision was really confusing and seemed to imply that the Class D was implausible, which I don't think it is. Battlestars are jumping around at faster-than-light speeds, is it such a stretch to believe the colonies have advanced nuclear reactors to produce exotic isotopes, and really powerful explosives to compress them to supercritical mass?

I don't know, maybe it would be best to just cut this article down to "here's what the class D was in the series. Gee whiz, it must use some kind of advanced technology."

[[User:Evan|Evan]] 21:33, 27 March 2006 (CST) (first edit here!)

:I think we need to clean this up (not because of you Evan). You see they say "hm, should be 40 Class-D nuclear warheads there" but Adama later says they only have "five nukes" aboard Galactica, leading to the possibilities that A) There are different KINDS of warhead, and the BIG ones Adama was referring to were different, OR that when they ''actually got'' to Ragnar Anchorage, there were less warheads than they expected. Hmmm...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:28, 27 March 2006 (CST)

:Based on reading up, it seems feasible. Our nukes were all designed rather a while ago, and sub-20kg would be doable with standard fissionable materials. A W54 was 23kg in 1961, and the Class-D was in a pretty big case. The yield is almost completely inestimable from available information, so the 1kt max for a W54 might even be close.
:Anyway, why do the colonials have suitcase bombs? Seriously, they are a bit puzzling motivation-wise. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:36, 28 March 2006 (CST)
::The main, real Class-D warhead used by the US, the W-28, weighed about 1800 lbs. Here's an interesting article on suitcase bombs. [http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/News/DoSuitcaseNukesExist.html] --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:17, 28 March 2006 (CST)
:::I'm not sure if you're claiming the US Class-D is the smallest nuke the US has possessed, but it was not even close. The link you point out confirms this readily. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 11:30, 28 March 2006 (CST)
::::I wasn't. I was pointing out that a real-life Class-D warhead is much to big to fit in a suitcase. The W-54 is much smaller than the W-28. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:01, 28 March 2006 (CST)

"Judging by the total instant destruction of the Cylon Basestar in Kobol's Last Gleaming, they would appear to have a yield in the megaton range." <--That's a misinterpretation of the explosion. First of all, what this "instant destruction"? A nuke explodes at essentially the speed of light, of course you'd be looking at instant destruction of the Basestar. And when you're blowing up something like a Basestar from the *inside*, you don't need nukes in the MT range. Considering the size of a Basestar (really not that big, especially compared to cities), its own onboard combustables and reactors and the incomplete vapourization of significant portion of the vessel, even a 20KT bomb would be more than enough do the damage observed. A MT-range bomb would've left *nothing* of the vessel, even a high KT-range bomb would've had you looking for the Basestar wreckage with a magnifying glass. Remember, a nuke exploding inside a target massively multiply the effectiveness of the nuke. I recommend editing out the estimated yield, period, and save the educated guess for when we've been sufficiently educated by additional onscreen material. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 15:15, 28 March 2006 (CST)

==Gina's nuke was not a Class D warhead==

I think we've overlooked this: when Tigh is going through a manifest of what is ''supposed'' to be at Ragnar Anchorage, he says there ''should'' be 40 Class D nuclear warheads there. --->In "Bastille Day", Adama says that "Galactica has 5 nukes left". For ''already'' had a few of these, which would be removed when the crew left (they couldn't just be safely detonated like normal ordinance). ***My point is, we don't know that those "5 nukes", one of which was given to Baltar who gave it to Gina, was actually a "class D warhead"; we don't even know if they actually found any of them.--->we go on at length talking about how it could or could not be a suitcase bomb, because the nukes that Galactica-Boomer and Gina used were that size; but we don't know that that is actually a Class-D warhead. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:12, 29 March 2006 (CST)
:Silly question, but does the miniseries use the phrase "Class D nuclear warheads" or just "Class D warheads"? There's a huge difference between the two, not all warheads are nukes. I also find it rather unlikely that the Colonial government/military would just leave that many nukes lying around an unguarded, half-abondoned, middle-of-nowhere depot, and none of the Galactica members seem to have freaked out at the idea that there was a thief onboard a station supposedly full of nukes (or wonder how he got there, suggesting that Ragnar wasn't exactly hard to get to). --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 21:07, 29 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Class-D nuclear warhead/Archive 1

2006-03-28T21:15:24Z

David Templar:

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-03-19T00:05:12Z

David Templar: /* Armament Details */

I think the "fan estimate" of 6-8 Viper squads is off. According to http://galactica.tv/colonials/galacticatv.shtml, the Galactica had only 2 Viper squadrons. Since it was a museum ship, it's possible this is less than the usual complement.

-- John Reese

-------

Hi John,

Thanks for contributing! It's nice to see that the site's picking up now!

Actually, there are bits of information on the Galactica.tv (or Galactica2003.tv) website that are suspect, such as Tigh's first name being "Paul", as opposed to the canonized "Saul". We mainly use the episodes for canonical information; the Zoic, as the Colonial Archivist (Ernestborg9) can tell you, is mainly conjecture unless canonical info shows up to disprove it.

However, [[Battlestar|Battlestars]] in general carry 6-8 sqads; [[Galactica]] does carry two. (Or did, as I'm sure that the Galactica is now left with, at most, one full squadron of Mark IIs from the [[Mini-Series]], over the course of the series.)

- Joe

== Other Battlestars ==

Since the encounter of the Pegasus we have learned of another type of Battlestar,
will this page be edited in regard of this?

Another point is the appearence of the Galactica before the ship has been refitted
after the war. Is it clear that it had the appearance of the orginal show or is this
unclear?

Hardwing

: I've updated the page to reflect that this page deals primarily with the original battlestar class, of which ''Galactica'' is a member. I added a note on ''Pegasus'' and her class. There is a page for the [[Mercury-class]] battlestar, which could be edited and updated as this one as we get more technical information on that ship class. Note that only battlestars mentioned in an episode are canon; the rest technically may be made-up until then. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:00, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

=== Battlestar Article Structure ===

Since the term '''battlestar''' is a category of ship (analogous to space faring aircraft-carriers) shouldn't the content discussing battlestars in the RDM series, in overview terms, be moved to the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page, and there list the two classes we know of so far, the Mercury class and the "Galactica" class (i.e. "Original battlestar (RDM)" which we don't know the name of)..?

This would then have the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page discussing the overall details of the "''Galactica'' class" battlestar, like we are doing with the [[Mercury class battlestar]] page which is about the class, and the [[Pegasus (RDM)]] page which deals with the specific vessel.

So in essence the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page is the "root" page for the RDM entry on battlestars as a whole, then the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page about the "''Galactica'' class" battlestars in general, and the [[Galactica (RDM)]] page about the specifc vessel ''Galactica'':

==== Proposed restructuring ====

*[[Battlestar (RDM)]] (page about battlestars in general, i.e. "aircraft carriers")
**[[Original battlestar (RDM)]] (page about the original unnamed class as a whole)
***[[Galactica (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
**[[Mercury class battlestar]] (page about the Mercury class as a whole)
***[[Pegasus (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
***[[Mercury]] page (page about the specific vessel)

Thus leaving the [[Battlestar]] page as the top level disambiguation page between series. So everything within the RDM series about battlestars would fall within the outlined framework above beginning with the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page.

:We don't have much content to say about battlestars in general, and what we do would be redundant with [[Colonial Fleet]]. I agree that "other battlestar" references should probably be removed from this page, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 2 December 2005 (EST)

::Why would you want to remove reference to the other battlestars in this page? There are references made as to how there were 12 of the Original RDM class battlestars each representing one of the colonies (miniseries). Seems to me that the general overview information about the Original RDM class as a whole should be the content here, with listings of and links to the individual vessels of this class (''Galactica'' being one of course). — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:I think the Battlestar (RDM) link is a nice redirect link to Original Battlestar (RDM), but I'd avoid yet another disambig page. The show is focused on the events of ''Galactica''. It is very likely that ''Pegasus'' will disappear, one way or another, and that the modern battlestar will a footnote with no further additional data. Most readers will also be thinking of ''Galactica'' when they hear "battlestar" and not the lesser battlestars, almost all of which are mentioned-only and are very likely to remain that way, flashbacks notwithstanding. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:36, 2 December 2005 (EST)

:: I probably should not have used the term disambiguation page as it would be an actual content page (was actually thinking more of a root entry or overview entry), but rather a page devoted to general overview content on the nature of battlestars as capital ships, discussion of general concepts of flight operations, battlegroup structures, etc. With the links to the various classes of battlestars. While I understand that we may not get an abundance of canonical info on them from the show itself, I guess this begs the question of the extent to which the encyclopedia content is about "the show" and how much is about the Galactica universe within the show? I personally was hoping that this would be the platform and vehicle to collect and fill-in and expand on the later. Where things are structured and presented as a "NPOV" encyclopedia "from" the Galactica universe (or as sometimes referred to in gaming terms as a 'poetic map' or 'real map' that a player-character would have). Think of it as if we had an "actual" Hitchhiker's Guide (albeit "serious and accurate" not the apocryphal one portrayed in the books and movies, etc) "from" the Galactica universe which is then 'viewed' here (i.e. the entry content of the encyclopedia portions of this site) — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

::: I really think [[Colonial Fleet]] is perfectly adequate to that task. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:12, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::: Ok, now I am a bit confused. Becuase before (I just read now) you seemed to be advocating basically the same thing when you said:

::::"We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think Aircraft carrier, Yorktown class aircraft carrier, Nimitz class aircraft carrier. --Peter Farago 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)"

::::Which is why I was porposing shifting sections of overview content about battlestars and the basics of them, to the "root" battlestar (RDM) page (no longer a redriect)... then specifics about each class as the next level pages, then entries pages on each specific vessel. — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 21:06, 3 December 2005 (EST)

==Armament Details==

* ''With 512 Point-Defense Turrets, thats 1024 PD Guns, and from onscreen evidence, the Rounds Per Minute is atleast 90 or more. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Assuming a firing rate of 2 rounds per second, thats 120 rounds per minute, and from all turrets equates to 122,880 rounds per minute. 2048 rounds per second. Thats alot. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Considering a raider has been shown to be destroyed with around 4-10 direct hits, this means that should raiders enter the firing solution, would take only a few seconds to get blown up. If targetted by the PD turrets, less then a second. It would take a single turret 1 second to destroy a raider. That isn't accounting for maneuverability of the raider however. (fan estimation.)''
* ''Also, with 24 Rail gun turrets, thats, 48 rail gun , Barrels, if you will. Atleast 960 Rounds per minute (1 round per 3 seconds)''
** ''Onscreen evidence shows around 1 round firing per 2-3 seconds (please correct if wrong). Going with the 1 round-2 seconds, you get a single turret firing in a minute, 60 rounds. times that by 24 and you come to 1,440 rounds per minute.''
** ''Due the turrets being "rail guns", the rounds go much faster then the rounds fired from the PD turrets. This means that a single hit to a raider should destroy it due to the kenetic energy imparted to the raider. If this is true, then a battlestar, with accurate aiming, could take out 1,440 raiders in a minute. Thats like, double the estimated capacity of a basestar! Thats if every shot is a direct hit.''

This is interesting. Do you have a source for: the number of point-defense turrets, the number of rail guns, and the ''existance'' of rail guns (on-screen evidence indicates a three-rail design, which is inconsistant with the physics of a rail gun)? I don't think any of those things have been shown or mentioned on screen yet.

This line of inquiry might enable us to speculate on the Battlestar's total ammo store, if we can derive our estimates from good data. However, the concept of a Basestar sending two raider wings directly into Galactica's firing solution is a little silly. ''Galactica's'' firing solution has been used to provide cover for vipers and screen the ship from nukes, not to target enemy fightercraft directly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:55, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::''Aramaments - Defensive''
::* ''24 x primary railgun turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)
::* ''512 x point-defense turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)''

:according to the wiki entry.
:also pictures on there show the existance of the rail guns. 8 ontop. 8 on the under side of the 'crocodile head', and 8 on the underbelly.

:the Rate of Fire is all my doing however.

:can someone get me a short video of when the ship actually fires? cuz im actualy needing this much detail for something im doing (and using this wiki as a reference for).

:its guessing though i counted erm, 498 turrets myself.
:and worked out for that too , ive got those calculations somewhere.

:keeping in mind some of the personnel guns they have, that fire ate more-then-1-round-per-second (in some cases. for instance a gattling gun, while not seen onscreen they likely have one, what with theyre parralels with earth tech)..
:its more then realistic RoF for each turret no?

:asfor the rail gun RoF
:on second thought,
:ill need to re-examine the footage of the rail guns firing.
:theyre not said to be rail guns but theres a shot somewhere of 4 turrets , that resemble the rail guns, firing.
:ok ill stop now.

:thx for the, well, not going mad :)

:edit - oh sos forget this: --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 12:26, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::Be careful when citing unsourced fan-estimates in your calculations. I don't think those stats on turret count should even be there without a source. This article needs some serious cleanup in that regard. As for rate of fire, that can probably be estimated by frame-stepping through the relevant effects scenes in the miniseries. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:39, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Shall I upload my modified pics of the underbelly, top and side somewhere and link them in here for others to count? i can link to both the unmodified and the modified versions so people can compare each individual one. and asfor the frame-stepping, is there a scene of the galactica firing, upclose in the first 5 episodes? --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 14:04, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I think it would be better for you to upload it to your own web space if possible and then post links here, if that's possible. It would be interesting to see. Close-ups on Galactica's guns firing can be found in the mini-series, and I believe the footage was reused in "33". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:57, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I just wanted to point out that the Galactica has 20 heavy turrets, not 24. There are eight on each of the dorsal and ventral sides and four under the nose of the fore-section. You can see these on the Zoic high-res pictures of the Big G. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:53, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::I uploaded a picture to show what I mean. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:09, 28 September 2005 (EDT) [[Image:BSG_Ortho_Bottom.jpg|thumb]]
:::::::Excellent. Can the smaller guns also be seen on the elevations? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:29, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, especially on the flight pod. There are other batteries along the top and bottom of the fore-section split, the top of the central hull, below the flight pods, and along both upper and lower engine pods. These are just the ones I've found though. I'll upload the other ortho views now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:35, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::Actualy i can show you where the extra 4 come from!!! they are partially hidden . 2 on either side on the crocidile head. the hull plating left on either side of the underbelly, look there and youll see the other 4. *smiles like a know-it-all. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:19, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::::If you mean the ones visible in the ventral elevation, I think Talos was including those in his count. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:35, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::::those are fully visible. theres 4 at the very front and 2 either side of the underbelly partially visible. ill upload the pic when i get the change.
::::::::::::No need, I see them. Odd place for them, their range of motion must be quite constrained. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::: (okay all these colons are really making this page long vertically. go 3-4-5-3 etc lol. anyway. ive uploaded to imageshack the pic so if anyone wants to count them and compare like i did go ahead. erm its 6:45am and had 3 hours sleep so , i forgot, how do i link? lol. img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottomguns8ns.jpg (edit into a link for us. cheers) btw the pic is huge. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:44, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:Man, those large turrets are well hidden. I did not see them until now. You can also see the long line of small turrets along the edges of the main body. Look at the red markings on the bottom and go straight down until you reach the edge. You'll see them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:20, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

Changed "Each barrel fires non-explosive rounds in bursts" to explosive rounds. I mean, take a look at the screen cap from "Scattered" right in the same section and the data on Galactica's main batteries. Her large guns aren't capable of generating the dense flak barrier seen in the episode, their rate of fire and coverage are just too low. Besides, her main guns are generally used in direct fire roles. Even assuming Galactica's secondary batteries are only firing the same rounds as the Vipers (which they probably don't, Galactica's secondaries look considerably larger than Viper's guns), a 25-30mm round is plenty large to have a time-fuse. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 14:04, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I'd accept not mentioning whether they're incendiary rounds or not, but we have no positive evidence to that effect. I think that it's entirely plausible that the eight dorsal batteries, each firing two rounds in tandem every 2.5 seconds (for a total of 6.4 rounds per second) could produce a flack screen as dense as the one we saw in "Scattered". Remember, based on the explosion we saw in the miniseries, the burst radius of each flak round is very large. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:50, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Except large explosions weren't characteristic of the flak barrier in "Scattered". Watch the episode again, the barrier consists of large numbers of *little* explosions surrounding most of the ship. Further more, 6.4 rounds a second still wouldn't be enough to cover a ship the size of Galactica the way the flak barrier in the episode did, especially since Galactica's primary batteries have a limited arc (they can't depress all that low). --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 20:25, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::As seen in this screencap (http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Flakfield.jpg), the aft turrets cluster is engaging off to the right of the the Viper with concentrated fire. However, there are flak rounds going off all around the ship. The front cluster can't generate such a large cloud alone, especially when you watch that scene in motion. Furthermore, since the secondary batteries are large enough to fire fused rounds of today and we've extrapolated much of BSG's KEW characteristics from modern cannons already, there's no reason why we can't here as well. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

::::More screencaps to support my position.
Galactica's main guns busy against the Baseship while her secondaries fire flak, note the explosions around the ship. Some are missiles going off, but some aren't: http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/albums/bsg212caps/bsg212510.jpg
http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/albums/bsg212caps/bsg212511.jpg --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 15:27, 18 March 2006 (CST)

Where exactly does the count of 24 large turrets onboard the Galactica come from? We've only seen 8 turrets and assuming symmetry between dorsal and ventral mountings, that'd still only be 16. Galactica's preference of exposing only her topside towards the enemy makes me very skeptical of the potential of large batteries on her underbelly. If she had guns there, it'd make a lot more sense if she fought while orienting the target to her horizontal axis, so both top and bottom batteries can be brought to bear. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

:The 24 figure has been well established earlier on this talk page. Galactica has eight turreted bow batteries, in addition to eight dorsal and eight ventral. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:37, 18 March 2006 (CST)

::I stand informed. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 18:05, 18 March 2006 (CST)

==This Article Needs Work==

Who will join me in stripping this article of non-canon information and clearly labelling sources? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:07, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

: A challenge, but I like that. Perhaps we can move the Zoic information to a new page, as it is close to canon as we've got since they are part of the production process, although little of their info can be collaborated yet. We probably need to have this page moved to "Original Battlestar" or "Battlestar (RDM)" or somehow disamb it. Or, just offload the TOS info to another page. In a way I'm also big on placing the tech stats with the other technology pages to keep it easy to edit and read for both pages. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:28, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think [[Wikipedia:Aircraft carrier|Aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Yorktown class aircraft carrier|Yorktown class aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Nimitz class aircraft carrier|Nimitz class aircraft carrier]].

::Lastly, we must find an actual link to the Zoic source on all these details if we're going to keep them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:::That sounds good. I should be able to do the heavy work of moving data from the general "Battlestar" page to new pages for TOS and RDM battlestars and classes we know, and each of these pages will have links to their appropriate TOS or RDM named battlestar page. I may not strike the Zoic stuff yet, but at least by moving matters to separate pages, it will be much more manageable. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:28, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

The heavy work is done. This article has become a disamb page for all battlestar information. Unfortunately I did not properly move the [[Galactica]] page to [[Galactica (RDM)]], but created a new page instead. The content of the new page is OK, but the [[Galactica]] page should redirect to Galactica (RDM) to keep its history. There are several new pages that link from this page. The Pegasus (RDM) page deserved an article of its own and its page was moved, while Pegasus TOS from the original Battlestar page had only a few lines that were merged into [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. The new Galactica RDM class has [[Battlestar (RDM)]] for that general information. [[Mercury-class]] was moved to [[Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)]] to keep its history and keep article consistency. Galactica has a TOS and RDM page (note earlier screw up) as well as Battlestars of TOS. I hope this aids greatly in keeping mixed information from becoming a bother. This does create bad links throughout, but the primary ones to catch are [[Galactica]] (which should redirect to Galactica (RDM) unless on a TOS area), Pegasus (which should go to Pegasus (RDM) if new, or Battlestar (TOS) if not). Comments, criticizm and help are appreciated. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

:Okay, I just finished a bit of cleanup. I've moved "Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)" to "Mercury-Class Battlestar", since there's no need to disambiguate it from a TOS page of the same name that might ever exist. I've also corrected the namespace on "Galactica (Video Game 2003) to "Galactica (Video Game)", which is the namespace the other articles use. I've created a redirect from "Galactica" to "Galactica (RDM)", and moved the talk bage from "Talk:Battlestar" to "Talk:Battlestar (RDM)" (there were no TOS-specific comments there). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

::Thanks. The Mercury-class remove makes sense. Although I added RDM on those namespaces for consistency, your move simplifies the namespaces. There have been many games for BSG over the years, thus the use of the year just in case someone starts discussing other older games or new games are created. We can worry about that later. With the separations, we can see how some pages really could use more content, especially the TOS Galactica page. That's pretty sad, when you think of it. Perhaps another enterprising person can fill it will some general history. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:02, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

==Battletar Tally==

This page, like [[Mercury-class Battlestar]] is for a specific (albeit unnamed) class of battletar. A tally of the fleet's unclassified battlestars is not appropriate here, and should go in [[Colonial Fleet]].
:Makes sense. For lack of a better place to put it, I left it as a vestigial part from its former article. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:52, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

==Capitalization==

Battlestar isn't a proper noun, so it shouldn't be capitalized in article names. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:04, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:I've been wrestling with that. So, when using battlestar, it seems fine to capitalize it ''as'' an article when next to a battlestar name, as in "Battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica". But when discussing the ship it should be "battlestar" just as we would use "carrier" and not "Carrier" for aircraft carriers. I find the use of "the battlestar ''Galactica'' awkward: no definitive article required there when the ship name is next to it. An item for the Standards page? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

::Based on usage on the Wikipedia WWII articles, it would be either "the battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica" or just "''Galactica'' left for Caprica". The only time Battlestar should be capitalized is in the title of the show. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:50, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

:::So say they all. It shall be done. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:41, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

==Warheads==

In the [[Miniseries]], Geata reports that the chief says it will be three hours to load all the warheads. I think this establishes that Galactica was, in fact, loading nukes from Ragnar, and that the five it departed the system with (c.f. Bastille Day) were all it could carry. The number does seem low to me, but what other sort of warhead would they be talking about? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:16, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:Maybe conventional missile warheads and bombs for the Vipers, possibly conventional warheads for Galactica, and warheads for the shells fired by the main cannons. It shouldn't take three hours to load five warheads, even nukes. It's possible that Ragnar only had five warheads. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:05, 30 December 2005 (EST)
::The main cannons would probably fire shells, not warheads, and we haven't seen any non-nuclear warheads used by the Colonials so far. I agree that it's possible Ragnar's stores were the limiting factor, though, rather than ''Galactica's'' capacity. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:::Shells and warheads are two ways of talking about fused explosive payloads, the difference is in the mechanical execution rather than the function. The more we see of the main batteries in BSG, the more they look like the chemical energy driven weapons of today (most recently, the Pegasus' guns discharging fiery clouds). In that case, since we know firing nukes from artillery pieces is possible (Galactica's guns look much larger than the 203mm of the US Army) AND Galactica's nukes are shown to be very compact, there's every reason to believe that gun batteries are a possible way of delivering nuclear warheads. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:51, 18 March 2006 (CST)

==Article Title==
Something Memory Alpha does for articles on unnamed ship classes is refer to them as "___ type" rather than "___ class", where the article would be named after the most prominent ship of the class rather than the (unknown) lead ship. You can see this at:
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aeon type|Aeon type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Artic One type|Artic One type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aurora type|Aurora type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Bok'Nor type|Bok'Nor type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Kyr type|D'Kyr type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Vahl type|D'Vahl type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Intrepid type|Intrepid type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Raven type|Raven type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:SD-103 type|SD-103 type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:USS Enterprise-J type|USS Enterprise-J type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:XCV type|XCV type]]
What do our military experts think of this sort of nomenclature? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:34, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:That sounds good, the only question is: Is it battlestar Galactica-type, or Galactica-type battlestar? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:55, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::I'd go for "Galactica type battlestar" to match "Mercury class battlestar", personally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:00, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:::I tend to agree. "Original battlestar" as a title is both ambiguous (is this page about the first battlestar ever built?) and clumsy. Galactica-type Battlestar should be the new title, and the move should be done sooner rather than later. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::::I concur, and we should make similar it to what we have as shown: "Galactica type battlestar" (no hyphens). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:40, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Bow batteries ==
There's a new line about bow batteries, but doesn't that apply to the Mercury-class (''Pegasus'') and not the Galactica type battlestar? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:20, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes. I'm removing it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:38, 20 February 2006 (EST)
::I was in the middle of doing that and got an edit conflict. Oh well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:40, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== ''Where'' exactly did this quote come from? ==

I removed the following quote from this page, because while it attributes who said the quote, we don't have a ''source'' for the quote (i.e. where it came from).

: I was asking Gary Hutzel to give me the technical specs just last week, actually. I think he described the flight pods [hangar decks] as being about four football fields in length." (source: Robert Falconer)

Please provide a source for the quote (whether it be an interview, bulletin board post, etc.) ASAP. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Capacity of Galactica's Hangers==
I'd like to point something out about the fighter carring capabilities of battlestars. Apparently all fighters on battlestars are carried in the 2 flight pods(one flight pod in Galactica's case). Each flight pod as stated in the Galactica Type Battlestar "is almost twice the length of a Nimitz class carrier, is some 150ft (46m) wider and is approximately as tall as a Nimitz class carrier measured from the waterline to the top of the carrier's communications and ELINT tower." Now assuming that the hangar deck on the Nimitz is as long as the flight deck (which is not),considering that the lower level of the flight pod of the Galactica is the hangar for that flight pod and not taking in to account that the flight pod is wider then the Nimitz hull at the level of the hangar deck, the surface of the hangar deck in a flight pod is twice that of a Nimitz class carrier. Galactica has at last 4 times the hangar space of the Nimitz. The Nimitza can carrie 85 aircraft, 50 of which ar fighters. So I don't know how the person who wrote this article came up with the figure of 80 Vipers carried in a fully armed battlestar,since this number would't even fill a quarter of the hangar space.What did they do with the rest of the hangar, play football maybe, or baseball? Take in to acoount that a Viper is about 8 times smaller in volume than an F-14, having half the lenght,wingspan and height, and a raptor just about as big. A Galactica type battlestar would be able to carry at least 400 Vipers and Raptors.
:I was looking at the orthos of Big-G a second ago and I think that the hanger isn't a very wide structure. The elevator that 2276NC lands on in the Mini is in the center of the hanger and is shown to be significantly off-center from the flight deck. The launch tubes also seem to take up alot of the flight pod. Even the Nimitz class can carry more aircraft than they do. Plus, Galactica has to carry Raptors, a half dozen or so, so it's not just Vipers. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::My thinking is like this picture. The box I drew extends across all the launch tubes visible in the side view, plus a little in the rear for maintenance and storage. This would protect the hanger from damage, like after the nuke in the Mini. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:12, 15 March 2006 (CST)
[[Image:Hanger.JPG|thumb|Hanger example]]

:::As far as "what else is all the hanger space used for", we've seen ships as large as Colonial One docking inside the flight pods. (Although Colonial One isn't that large...) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:02, 15 March 2006 (CST)

The area you drew Talos is still larger the the hangar of the Nimitz. Look at the picture that compares the Nimitz to the Galactica, and take in to accout that the hangar deck has a smaller width then the then the flight deck. The rectangle that you drew is about the width of the hanagar on a Nimitz and is still longer. And you should take in to account that a Viper Mk VII according to the page on this site is 9.8643 m long has a wingspan of 5.61 m and is 2.9508 m high (in flight, without landing gear.) the Naval fighter equivalent woould be the F-18 C/D(I'm not considering the larger E/F variant) which is has an overall length of 17,07, an width of 8.38 m wings folded and a height of 4,66m. The F-18 C/D is almost twice as long as wide and as tall as a Viper. A Nimtz class carrier carries 50 F-18 (both the C/D variant and the larger E/F variant which has replaced the F-14 in all but 2 naval squadrons). A Galactica type should be able to carrie at least 90 Vipers and 35 oher suport aircraft larger then the Raptor (the 35 suport aircraft carried buy the Nimitz are all larger then the Raptor) in a single flight pod.--[[User:DArhengel|DArhengel]] 12:37, 16 March 2006 (CST)
:I went back to the DVDs and it appears that they only store Vipers along one side of the hanger, with most of the other wall being launch tubes. In the mini, there is a nice shot down the hanger after Apollo lands. A Mk VII is parked in a niche and going by that, it looks like the hanger is ~20 meters wide (useable space, not including supports, etc). The hanger appears to be very long but narrow which would make the best use of the space considering the size of the craft and the need for launch tubes and elevators (I believe the elevators are between the banks of launch tubes). I'll go figure out the length and update the example I showed above. Thanks for the stimulating conversation, by the way, it's a fun topic for me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:09, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Combat landing

2006-03-18T21:44:55Z

David Templar:

[[Image:Combatlanding2.jpg|thumb|200px|Vipers during the chaotic combat landing in the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. (Credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]
A '''combat landing''' is performed in the most dire of combat situations where retreat is necessary and a [[Original battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] must leave a combat zone immediately. A combat landing is a drastic form of a non-combat [[Hands-on Approach|hands-on approach]].

Combat landings are usually performed for speed with less emphasis on safety. In a combat landing, fighters do not care about where they land on the [[Landing bay|landing bay]], as long as they can set down on it. The pilots will activate their magnetic clamps and try to skid along the landing bay until the clamps catch and halt the ship. Divets are formed by the skidding undercarriage in combat landings and need to be pounded out.

Combat landings can be very risky for ''[[Galactica]]'' pilots since only her port landing bay is available; the starboard pod was being converted into a pressurized museum at the time of the [[Cylon Attack]]. Combat landings by a full squadron may make it very cramped for parking within the pod and increase the likelihood of collisions. Further, ''Galactica'' may begin retracting her [[Flight pod|flight pods]] early, requiring a pilot to fly as accurately as they can to enter the landing pod without colliding against the ship.

On the other end of the spectrum, combat landing onboard a [[Mercury-Class]] [[battlestar]] is a much more orderly affair, thanks to having twice the landing space of the Galactica as well as computer-assisted landing system for the [[Viper]] Mk VII and static flight pods ("[[The Captain's Hand]]").

For 239 of the 240 jumps that battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' and the fleet had to make to escape the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] after the initial [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]], combat landings were used to the point that the pilots had to check their undercarriages before each launch to check for structural problems because of the stress placed on the fighters ([[33]]).

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-03-18T21:27:00Z

David Templar: /* Armament Details */

I think the "fan estimate" of 6-8 Viper squads is off. According to http://galactica.tv/colonials/galacticatv.shtml, the Galactica had only 2 Viper squadrons. Since it was a museum ship, it's possible this is less than the usual complement.

-- John Reese

-------

Hi John,

Thanks for contributing! It's nice to see that the site's picking up now!

Actually, there are bits of information on the Galactica.tv (or Galactica2003.tv) website that are suspect, such as Tigh's first name being "Paul", as opposed to the canonized "Saul". We mainly use the episodes for canonical information; the Zoic, as the Colonial Archivist (Ernestborg9) can tell you, is mainly conjecture unless canonical info shows up to disprove it.

However, [[Battlestar|Battlestars]] in general carry 6-8 sqads; [[Galactica]] does carry two. (Or did, as I'm sure that the Galactica is now left with, at most, one full squadron of Mark IIs from the [[Mini-Series]], over the course of the series.)

- Joe

== Other Battlestars ==

Since the encounter of the Pegasus we have learned of another type of Battlestar,
will this page be edited in regard of this?

Another point is the appearence of the Galactica before the ship has been refitted
after the war. Is it clear that it had the appearance of the orginal show or is this
unclear?

Hardwing

: I've updated the page to reflect that this page deals primarily with the original battlestar class, of which ''Galactica'' is a member. I added a note on ''Pegasus'' and her class. There is a page for the [[Mercury-class]] battlestar, which could be edited and updated as this one as we get more technical information on that ship class. Note that only battlestars mentioned in an episode are canon; the rest technically may be made-up until then. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:00, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

=== Battlestar Article Structure ===

Since the term '''battlestar''' is a category of ship (analogous to space faring aircraft-carriers) shouldn't the content discussing battlestars in the RDM series, in overview terms, be moved to the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page, and there list the two classes we know of so far, the Mercury class and the "Galactica" class (i.e. "Original battlestar (RDM)" which we don't know the name of)..?

This would then have the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page discussing the overall details of the "''Galactica'' class" battlestar, like we are doing with the [[Mercury class battlestar]] page which is about the class, and the [[Pegasus (RDM)]] page which deals with the specific vessel.

So in essence the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page is the "root" page for the RDM entry on battlestars as a whole, then the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page about the "''Galactica'' class" battlestars in general, and the [[Galactica (RDM)]] page about the specifc vessel ''Galactica'':

==== Proposed restructuring ====

*[[Battlestar (RDM)]] (page about battlestars in general, i.e. "aircraft carriers")
**[[Original battlestar (RDM)]] (page about the original unnamed class as a whole)
***[[Galactica (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
**[[Mercury class battlestar]] (page about the Mercury class as a whole)
***[[Pegasus (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
***[[Mercury]] page (page about the specific vessel)

Thus leaving the [[Battlestar]] page as the top level disambiguation page between series. So everything within the RDM series about battlestars would fall within the outlined framework above beginning with the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page.

:We don't have much content to say about battlestars in general, and what we do would be redundant with [[Colonial Fleet]]. I agree that "other battlestar" references should probably be removed from this page, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 2 December 2005 (EST)

::Why would you want to remove reference to the other battlestars in this page? There are references made as to how there were 12 of the Original RDM class battlestars each representing one of the colonies (miniseries). Seems to me that the general overview information about the Original RDM class as a whole should be the content here, with listings of and links to the individual vessels of this class (''Galactica'' being one of course). — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:I think the Battlestar (RDM) link is a nice redirect link to Original Battlestar (RDM), but I'd avoid yet another disambig page. The show is focused on the events of ''Galactica''. It is very likely that ''Pegasus'' will disappear, one way or another, and that the modern battlestar will a footnote with no further additional data. Most readers will also be thinking of ''Galactica'' when they hear "battlestar" and not the lesser battlestars, almost all of which are mentioned-only and are very likely to remain that way, flashbacks notwithstanding. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:36, 2 December 2005 (EST)

:: I probably should not have used the term disambiguation page as it would be an actual content page (was actually thinking more of a root entry or overview entry), but rather a page devoted to general overview content on the nature of battlestars as capital ships, discussion of general concepts of flight operations, battlegroup structures, etc. With the links to the various classes of battlestars. While I understand that we may not get an abundance of canonical info on them from the show itself, I guess this begs the question of the extent to which the encyclopedia content is about "the show" and how much is about the Galactica universe within the show? I personally was hoping that this would be the platform and vehicle to collect and fill-in and expand on the later. Where things are structured and presented as a "NPOV" encyclopedia "from" the Galactica universe (or as sometimes referred to in gaming terms as a 'poetic map' or 'real map' that a player-character would have). Think of it as if we had an "actual" Hitchhiker's Guide (albeit "serious and accurate" not the apocryphal one portrayed in the books and movies, etc) "from" the Galactica universe which is then 'viewed' here (i.e. the entry content of the encyclopedia portions of this site) — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

::: I really think [[Colonial Fleet]] is perfectly adequate to that task. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:12, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::: Ok, now I am a bit confused. Becuase before (I just read now) you seemed to be advocating basically the same thing when you said:

::::"We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think Aircraft carrier, Yorktown class aircraft carrier, Nimitz class aircraft carrier. --Peter Farago 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)"

::::Which is why I was porposing shifting sections of overview content about battlestars and the basics of them, to the "root" battlestar (RDM) page (no longer a redriect)... then specifics about each class as the next level pages, then entries pages on each specific vessel. — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 21:06, 3 December 2005 (EST)

==Armament Details==

* ''With 512 Point-Defense Turrets, thats 1024 PD Guns, and from onscreen evidence, the Rounds Per Minute is atleast 90 or more. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Assuming a firing rate of 2 rounds per second, thats 120 rounds per minute, and from all turrets equates to 122,880 rounds per minute. 2048 rounds per second. Thats alot. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Considering a raider has been shown to be destroyed with around 4-10 direct hits, this means that should raiders enter the firing solution, would take only a few seconds to get blown up. If targetted by the PD turrets, less then a second. It would take a single turret 1 second to destroy a raider. That isn't accounting for maneuverability of the raider however. (fan estimation.)''
* ''Also, with 24 Rail gun turrets, thats, 48 rail gun , Barrels, if you will. Atleast 960 Rounds per minute (1 round per 3 seconds)''
** ''Onscreen evidence shows around 1 round firing per 2-3 seconds (please correct if wrong). Going with the 1 round-2 seconds, you get a single turret firing in a minute, 60 rounds. times that by 24 and you come to 1,440 rounds per minute.''
** ''Due the turrets being "rail guns", the rounds go much faster then the rounds fired from the PD turrets. This means that a single hit to a raider should destroy it due to the kenetic energy imparted to the raider. If this is true, then a battlestar, with accurate aiming, could take out 1,440 raiders in a minute. Thats like, double the estimated capacity of a basestar! Thats if every shot is a direct hit.''

This is interesting. Do you have a source for: the number of point-defense turrets, the number of rail guns, and the ''existance'' of rail guns (on-screen evidence indicates a three-rail design, which is inconsistant with the physics of a rail gun)? I don't think any of those things have been shown or mentioned on screen yet.

This line of inquiry might enable us to speculate on the Battlestar's total ammo store, if we can derive our estimates from good data. However, the concept of a Basestar sending two raider wings directly into Galactica's firing solution is a little silly. ''Galactica's'' firing solution has been used to provide cover for vipers and screen the ship from nukes, not to target enemy fightercraft directly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:55, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::''Aramaments - Defensive''
::* ''24 x primary railgun turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)
::* ''512 x point-defense turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)''

:according to the wiki entry.
:also pictures on there show the existance of the rail guns. 8 ontop. 8 on the under side of the 'crocodile head', and 8 on the underbelly.

:the Rate of Fire is all my doing however.

:can someone get me a short video of when the ship actually fires? cuz im actualy needing this much detail for something im doing (and using this wiki as a reference for).

:its guessing though i counted erm, 498 turrets myself.
:and worked out for that too , ive got those calculations somewhere.

:keeping in mind some of the personnel guns they have, that fire ate more-then-1-round-per-second (in some cases. for instance a gattling gun, while not seen onscreen they likely have one, what with theyre parralels with earth tech)..
:its more then realistic RoF for each turret no?

:asfor the rail gun RoF
:on second thought,
:ill need to re-examine the footage of the rail guns firing.
:theyre not said to be rail guns but theres a shot somewhere of 4 turrets , that resemble the rail guns, firing.
:ok ill stop now.

:thx for the, well, not going mad :)

:edit - oh sos forget this: --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 12:26, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::Be careful when citing unsourced fan-estimates in your calculations. I don't think those stats on turret count should even be there without a source. This article needs some serious cleanup in that regard. As for rate of fire, that can probably be estimated by frame-stepping through the relevant effects scenes in the miniseries. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:39, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Shall I upload my modified pics of the underbelly, top and side somewhere and link them in here for others to count? i can link to both the unmodified and the modified versions so people can compare each individual one. and asfor the frame-stepping, is there a scene of the galactica firing, upclose in the first 5 episodes? --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 14:04, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I think it would be better for you to upload it to your own web space if possible and then post links here, if that's possible. It would be interesting to see. Close-ups on Galactica's guns firing can be found in the mini-series, and I believe the footage was reused in "33". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:57, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I just wanted to point out that the Galactica has 20 heavy turrets, not 24. There are eight on each of the dorsal and ventral sides and four under the nose of the fore-section. You can see these on the Zoic high-res pictures of the Big G. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:53, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::I uploaded a picture to show what I mean. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:09, 28 September 2005 (EDT) [[Image:BSG_Ortho_Bottom.jpg|thumb]]
:::::::Excellent. Can the smaller guns also be seen on the elevations? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:29, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, especially on the flight pod. There are other batteries along the top and bottom of the fore-section split, the top of the central hull, below the flight pods, and along both upper and lower engine pods. These are just the ones I've found though. I'll upload the other ortho views now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:35, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::Actualy i can show you where the extra 4 come from!!! they are partially hidden . 2 on either side on the crocidile head. the hull plating left on either side of the underbelly, look there and youll see the other 4. *smiles like a know-it-all. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:19, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::::If you mean the ones visible in the ventral elevation, I think Talos was including those in his count. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:35, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::::those are fully visible. theres 4 at the very front and 2 either side of the underbelly partially visible. ill upload the pic when i get the change.
::::::::::::No need, I see them. Odd place for them, their range of motion must be quite constrained. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::: (okay all these colons are really making this page long vertically. go 3-4-5-3 etc lol. anyway. ive uploaded to imageshack the pic so if anyone wants to count them and compare like i did go ahead. erm its 6:45am and had 3 hours sleep so , i forgot, how do i link? lol. img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottomguns8ns.jpg (edit into a link for us. cheers) btw the pic is huge. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:44, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:Man, those large turrets are well hidden. I did not see them until now. You can also see the long line of small turrets along the edges of the main body. Look at the red markings on the bottom and go straight down until you reach the edge. You'll see them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:20, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

Changed "Each barrel fires non-explosive rounds in bursts" to explosive rounds. I mean, take a look at the screen cap from "Scattered" right in the same section and the data on Galactica's main batteries. Her large guns aren't capable of generating the dense flak barrier seen in the episode, their rate of fire and coverage are just too low. Besides, her main guns are generally used in direct fire roles. Even assuming Galactica's secondary batteries are only firing the same rounds as the Vipers (which they probably don't, Galactica's secondaries look considerably larger than Viper's guns), a 25-30mm round is plenty large to have a time-fuse. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 14:04, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I'd accept not mentioning whether they're incendiary rounds or not, but we have no positive evidence to that effect. I think that it's entirely plausible that the eight dorsal batteries, each firing two rounds in tandem every 2.5 seconds (for a total of 6.4 rounds per second) could produce a flack screen as dense as the one we saw in "Scattered". Remember, based on the explosion we saw in the miniseries, the burst radius of each flak round is very large. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:50, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Except large explosions weren't characteristic of the flak barrier in "Scattered". Watch the episode again, the barrier consists of large numbers of *little* explosions surrounding most of the ship. Further more, 6.4 rounds a second still wouldn't be enough to cover a ship the size of Galactica the way the flak barrier in the episode did, especially since Galactica's primary batteries have a limited arc (they can't depress all that low). --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 20:25, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::As seen in this screencap (http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Flakfield.jpg), the aft turrets cluster is engaging off to the right of the the Viper with concentrated fire. However, there are flak rounds going off all around the ship. The front cluster can't generate such a large cloud alone, especially when you watch that scene in motion. Furthermore, since the secondary batteries are large enough to fire fused rounds of today and we've extrapolated much of BSG's KEW characteristics from modern cannons already, there's no reason why we can't here as well. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

::::More screencaps to support my position.
Galactica's main guns busy against the Baseship while her secondaries fire flak, note the explosions around the ship. Some are missiles going off, but some aren't: http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/albums/bsg212caps/bsg212510.jpg
http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/albums/bsg212caps/bsg212511.jpg --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 15:27, 18 March 2006 (CST)

Where exactly does the count of 24 large turrets onboard the Galactica come from? We've only seen 8 turrets and assuming symmetry between dorsal and ventral mountings, that'd still only be 16. Galactica's preference of exposing only her topside towards the enemy makes me very skeptical of the potential of large batteries on her underbelly. If she had guns there, it'd make a lot more sense if she fought while orienting the target to her horizontal axis, so both top and bottom batteries can be brought to bear. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

==This Article Needs Work==

Who will join me in stripping this article of non-canon information and clearly labelling sources? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:07, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

: A challenge, but I like that. Perhaps we can move the Zoic information to a new page, as it is close to canon as we've got since they are part of the production process, although little of their info can be collaborated yet. We probably need to have this page moved to "Original Battlestar" or "Battlestar (RDM)" or somehow disamb it. Or, just offload the TOS info to another page. In a way I'm also big on placing the tech stats with the other technology pages to keep it easy to edit and read for both pages. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:28, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think [[Wikipedia:Aircraft carrier|Aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Yorktown class aircraft carrier|Yorktown class aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Nimitz class aircraft carrier|Nimitz class aircraft carrier]].

::Lastly, we must find an actual link to the Zoic source on all these details if we're going to keep them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:::That sounds good. I should be able to do the heavy work of moving data from the general "Battlestar" page to new pages for TOS and RDM battlestars and classes we know, and each of these pages will have links to their appropriate TOS or RDM named battlestar page. I may not strike the Zoic stuff yet, but at least by moving matters to separate pages, it will be much more manageable. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:28, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

The heavy work is done. This article has become a disamb page for all battlestar information. Unfortunately I did not properly move the [[Galactica]] page to [[Galactica (RDM)]], but created a new page instead. The content of the new page is OK, but the [[Galactica]] page should redirect to Galactica (RDM) to keep its history. There are several new pages that link from this page. The Pegasus (RDM) page deserved an article of its own and its page was moved, while Pegasus TOS from the original Battlestar page had only a few lines that were merged into [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. The new Galactica RDM class has [[Battlestar (RDM)]] for that general information. [[Mercury-class]] was moved to [[Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)]] to keep its history and keep article consistency. Galactica has a TOS and RDM page (note earlier screw up) as well as Battlestars of TOS. I hope this aids greatly in keeping mixed information from becoming a bother. This does create bad links throughout, but the primary ones to catch are [[Galactica]] (which should redirect to Galactica (RDM) unless on a TOS area), Pegasus (which should go to Pegasus (RDM) if new, or Battlestar (TOS) if not). Comments, criticizm and help are appreciated. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

:Okay, I just finished a bit of cleanup. I've moved "Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)" to "Mercury-Class Battlestar", since there's no need to disambiguate it from a TOS page of the same name that might ever exist. I've also corrected the namespace on "Galactica (Video Game 2003) to "Galactica (Video Game)", which is the namespace the other articles use. I've created a redirect from "Galactica" to "Galactica (RDM)", and moved the talk bage from "Talk:Battlestar" to "Talk:Battlestar (RDM)" (there were no TOS-specific comments there). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

::Thanks. The Mercury-class remove makes sense. Although I added RDM on those namespaces for consistency, your move simplifies the namespaces. There have been many games for BSG over the years, thus the use of the year just in case someone starts discussing other older games or new games are created. We can worry about that later. With the separations, we can see how some pages really could use more content, especially the TOS Galactica page. That's pretty sad, when you think of it. Perhaps another enterprising person can fill it will some general history. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:02, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

==Battletar Tally==

This page, like [[Mercury-class Battlestar]] is for a specific (albeit unnamed) class of battletar. A tally of the fleet's unclassified battlestars is not appropriate here, and should go in [[Colonial Fleet]].
:Makes sense. For lack of a better place to put it, I left it as a vestigial part from its former article. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:52, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

==Capitalization==

Battlestar isn't a proper noun, so it shouldn't be capitalized in article names. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:04, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:I've been wrestling with that. So, when using battlestar, it seems fine to capitalize it ''as'' an article when next to a battlestar name, as in "Battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica". But when discussing the ship it should be "battlestar" just as we would use "carrier" and not "Carrier" for aircraft carriers. I find the use of "the battlestar ''Galactica'' awkward: no definitive article required there when the ship name is next to it. An item for the Standards page? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

::Based on usage on the Wikipedia WWII articles, it would be either "the battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica" or just "''Galactica'' left for Caprica". The only time Battlestar should be capitalized is in the title of the show. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:50, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

:::So say they all. It shall be done. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:41, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

==Warheads==

In the [[Miniseries]], Geata reports that the chief says it will be three hours to load all the warheads. I think this establishes that Galactica was, in fact, loading nukes from Ragnar, and that the five it departed the system with (c.f. Bastille Day) were all it could carry. The number does seem low to me, but what other sort of warhead would they be talking about? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:16, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:Maybe conventional missile warheads and bombs for the Vipers, possibly conventional warheads for Galactica, and warheads for the shells fired by the main cannons. It shouldn't take three hours to load five warheads, even nukes. It's possible that Ragnar only had five warheads. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:05, 30 December 2005 (EST)
::The main cannons would probably fire shells, not warheads, and we haven't seen any non-nuclear warheads used by the Colonials so far. I agree that it's possible Ragnar's stores were the limiting factor, though, rather than ''Galactica's'' capacity. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:::Shells and warheads are two ways of talking about fused explosive payloads, the difference is in the mechanical execution rather than the function. The more we see of the main batteries in BSG, the more they look like the chemical energy driven weapons of today (most recently, the Pegasus' guns discharging fiery clouds). In that case, since we know firing nukes from artillery pieces is possible (Galactica's guns look much larger than the 203mm of the US Army) AND Galactica's nukes are shown to be very compact, there's every reason to believe that gun batteries are a possible way of delivering nuclear warheads. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:51, 18 March 2006 (CST)

==Article Title==
Something Memory Alpha does for articles on unnamed ship classes is refer to them as "___ type" rather than "___ class", where the article would be named after the most prominent ship of the class rather than the (unknown) lead ship. You can see this at:
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aeon type|Aeon type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Artic One type|Artic One type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aurora type|Aurora type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Bok'Nor type|Bok'Nor type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Kyr type|D'Kyr type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Vahl type|D'Vahl type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Intrepid type|Intrepid type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Raven type|Raven type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:SD-103 type|SD-103 type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:USS Enterprise-J type|USS Enterprise-J type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:XCV type|XCV type]]
What do our military experts think of this sort of nomenclature? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:34, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:That sounds good, the only question is: Is it battlestar Galactica-type, or Galactica-type battlestar? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:55, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::I'd go for "Galactica type battlestar" to match "Mercury class battlestar", personally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:00, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:::I tend to agree. "Original battlestar" as a title is both ambiguous (is this page about the first battlestar ever built?) and clumsy. Galactica-type Battlestar should be the new title, and the move should be done sooner rather than later. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::::I concur, and we should make similar it to what we have as shown: "Galactica type battlestar" (no hyphens). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:40, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Bow batteries ==
There's a new line about bow batteries, but doesn't that apply to the Mercury-class (''Pegasus'') and not the Galactica type battlestar? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:20, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes. I'm removing it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:38, 20 February 2006 (EST)
::I was in the middle of doing that and got an edit conflict. Oh well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:40, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== ''Where'' exactly did this quote come from? ==

I removed the following quote from this page, because while it attributes who said the quote, we don't have a ''source'' for the quote (i.e. where it came from).

: I was asking Gary Hutzel to give me the technical specs just last week, actually. I think he described the flight pods [hangar decks] as being about four football fields in length." (source: Robert Falconer)

Please provide a source for the quote (whether it be an interview, bulletin board post, etc.) ASAP. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Capacity of Galactica's Hangers==
I'd like to point something out about the fighter carring capabilities of battlestars. Apparently all fighters on battlestars are carried in the 2 flight pods(one flight pod in Galactica's case). Each flight pod as stated in the Galactica Type Battlestar "is almost twice the length of a Nimitz class carrier, is some 150ft (46m) wider and is approximately as tall as a Nimitz class carrier measured from the waterline to the top of the carrier's communications and ELINT tower." Now assuming that the hangar deck on the Nimitz is as long as the flight deck (which is not),considering that the lower level of the flight pod of the Galactica is the hangar for that flight pod and not taking in to account that the flight pod is wider then the Nimitz hull at the level of the hangar deck, the surface of the hangar deck in a flight pod is twice that of a Nimitz class carrier. Galactica has at last 4 times the hangar space of the Nimitz. The Nimitza can carrie 85 aircraft, 50 of which ar fighters. So I don't know how the person who wrote this article came up with the figure of 80 Vipers carried in a fully armed battlestar,since this number would't even fill a quarter of the hangar space.What did they do with the rest of the hangar, play football maybe, or baseball? Take in to acoount that a Viper is about 8 times smaller in volume than an F-14, having half the lenght,wingspan and height, and a raptor just about as big. A Galactica type battlestar would be able to carry at least 400 Vipers and Raptors.
:I was looking at the orthos of Big-G a second ago and I think that the hanger isn't a very wide structure. The elevator that 2276NC lands on in the Mini is in the center of the hanger and is shown to be significantly off-center from the flight deck. The launch tubes also seem to take up alot of the flight pod. Even the Nimitz class can carry more aircraft than they do. Plus, Galactica has to carry Raptors, a half dozen or so, so it's not just Vipers. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::My thinking is like this picture. The box I drew extends across all the launch tubes visible in the side view, plus a little in the rear for maintenance and storage. This would protect the hanger from damage, like after the nuke in the Mini. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:12, 15 March 2006 (CST)
[[Image:Hanger.JPG|thumb|Hanger example]]

:::As far as "what else is all the hanger space used for", we've seen ships as large as Colonial One docking inside the flight pods. (Although Colonial One isn't that large...) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:02, 15 March 2006 (CST)

The area you drew Talos is still larger the the hangar of the Nimitz. Look at the picture that compares the Nimitz to the Galactica, and take in to accout that the hangar deck has a smaller width then the then the flight deck. The rectangle that you drew is about the width of the hanagar on a Nimitz and is still longer. And you should take in to account that a Viper Mk VII according to the page on this site is 9.8643 m long has a wingspan of 5.61 m and is 2.9508 m high (in flight, without landing gear.) the Naval fighter equivalent woould be the F-18 C/D(I'm not considering the larger E/F variant) which is has an overall length of 17,07, an width of 8.38 m wings folded and a height of 4,66m. The F-18 C/D is almost twice as long as wide and as tall as a Viper. A Nimtz class carrier carries 50 F-18 (both the C/D variant and the larger E/F variant which has replaced the F-14 in all but 2 naval squadrons). A Galactica type should be able to carrie at least 90 Vipers and 35 oher suport aircraft larger then the Raptor (the 35 suport aircraft carried buy the Nimitz are all larger then the Raptor) in a single flight pod.--[[User:DArhengel|DArhengel]] 12:37, 16 March 2006 (CST)
:I went back to the DVDs and it appears that they only store Vipers along one side of the hanger, with most of the other wall being launch tubes. In the mini, there is a nice shot down the hanger after Apollo lands. A Mk VII is parked in a niche and going by that, it looks like the hanger is ~20 meters wide (useable space, not including supports, etc). The hanger appears to be very long but narrow which would make the best use of the space considering the size of the craft and the need for launch tubes and elevators (I believe the elevators are between the banks of launch tubes). I'll go figure out the length and update the example I showed above. Thanks for the stimulating conversation, by the way, it's a fun topic for me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:09, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-03-18T17:51:58Z

David Templar: /* Warheads */ Nukes and guns

I think the "fan estimate" of 6-8 Viper squads is off. According to http://galactica.tv/colonials/galacticatv.shtml, the Galactica had only 2 Viper squadrons. Since it was a museum ship, it's possible this is less than the usual complement.

-- John Reese

-------

Hi John,

Thanks for contributing! It's nice to see that the site's picking up now!

Actually, there are bits of information on the Galactica.tv (or Galactica2003.tv) website that are suspect, such as Tigh's first name being "Paul", as opposed to the canonized "Saul". We mainly use the episodes for canonical information; the Zoic, as the Colonial Archivist (Ernestborg9) can tell you, is mainly conjecture unless canonical info shows up to disprove it.

However, [[Battlestar|Battlestars]] in general carry 6-8 sqads; [[Galactica]] does carry two. (Or did, as I'm sure that the Galactica is now left with, at most, one full squadron of Mark IIs from the [[Mini-Series]], over the course of the series.)

- Joe

== Other Battlestars ==

Since the encounter of the Pegasus we have learned of another type of Battlestar,
will this page be edited in regard of this?

Another point is the appearence of the Galactica before the ship has been refitted
after the war. Is it clear that it had the appearance of the orginal show or is this
unclear?

Hardwing

: I've updated the page to reflect that this page deals primarily with the original battlestar class, of which ''Galactica'' is a member. I added a note on ''Pegasus'' and her class. There is a page for the [[Mercury-class]] battlestar, which could be edited and updated as this one as we get more technical information on that ship class. Note that only battlestars mentioned in an episode are canon; the rest technically may be made-up until then. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:00, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

=== Battlestar Article Structure ===

Since the term '''battlestar''' is a category of ship (analogous to space faring aircraft-carriers) shouldn't the content discussing battlestars in the RDM series, in overview terms, be moved to the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page, and there list the two classes we know of so far, the Mercury class and the "Galactica" class (i.e. "Original battlestar (RDM)" which we don't know the name of)..?

This would then have the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page discussing the overall details of the "''Galactica'' class" battlestar, like we are doing with the [[Mercury class battlestar]] page which is about the class, and the [[Pegasus (RDM)]] page which deals with the specific vessel.

So in essence the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page is the "root" page for the RDM entry on battlestars as a whole, then the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page about the "''Galactica'' class" battlestars in general, and the [[Galactica (RDM)]] page about the specifc vessel ''Galactica'':

==== Proposed restructuring ====

*[[Battlestar (RDM)]] (page about battlestars in general, i.e. "aircraft carriers")
**[[Original battlestar (RDM)]] (page about the original unnamed class as a whole)
***[[Galactica (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
**[[Mercury class battlestar]] (page about the Mercury class as a whole)
***[[Pegasus (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
***[[Mercury]] page (page about the specific vessel)

Thus leaving the [[Battlestar]] page as the top level disambiguation page between series. So everything within the RDM series about battlestars would fall within the outlined framework above beginning with the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page.

:We don't have much content to say about battlestars in general, and what we do would be redundant with [[Colonial Fleet]]. I agree that "other battlestar" references should probably be removed from this page, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 2 December 2005 (EST)

::Why would you want to remove reference to the other battlestars in this page? There are references made as to how there were 12 of the Original RDM class battlestars each representing one of the colonies (miniseries). Seems to me that the general overview information about the Original RDM class as a whole should be the content here, with listings of and links to the individual vessels of this class (''Galactica'' being one of course). — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:I think the Battlestar (RDM) link is a nice redirect link to Original Battlestar (RDM), but I'd avoid yet another disambig page. The show is focused on the events of ''Galactica''. It is very likely that ''Pegasus'' will disappear, one way or another, and that the modern battlestar will a footnote with no further additional data. Most readers will also be thinking of ''Galactica'' when they hear "battlestar" and not the lesser battlestars, almost all of which are mentioned-only and are very likely to remain that way, flashbacks notwithstanding. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:36, 2 December 2005 (EST)

:: I probably should not have used the term disambiguation page as it would be an actual content page (was actually thinking more of a root entry or overview entry), but rather a page devoted to general overview content on the nature of battlestars as capital ships, discussion of general concepts of flight operations, battlegroup structures, etc. With the links to the various classes of battlestars. While I understand that we may not get an abundance of canonical info on them from the show itself, I guess this begs the question of the extent to which the encyclopedia content is about "the show" and how much is about the Galactica universe within the show? I personally was hoping that this would be the platform and vehicle to collect and fill-in and expand on the later. Where things are structured and presented as a "NPOV" encyclopedia "from" the Galactica universe (or as sometimes referred to in gaming terms as a 'poetic map' or 'real map' that a player-character would have). Think of it as if we had an "actual" Hitchhiker's Guide (albeit "serious and accurate" not the apocryphal one portrayed in the books and movies, etc) "from" the Galactica universe which is then 'viewed' here (i.e. the entry content of the encyclopedia portions of this site) — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

::: I really think [[Colonial Fleet]] is perfectly adequate to that task. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:12, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::: Ok, now I am a bit confused. Becuase before (I just read now) you seemed to be advocating basically the same thing when you said:

::::"We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think Aircraft carrier, Yorktown class aircraft carrier, Nimitz class aircraft carrier. --Peter Farago 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)"

::::Which is why I was porposing shifting sections of overview content about battlestars and the basics of them, to the "root" battlestar (RDM) page (no longer a redriect)... then specifics about each class as the next level pages, then entries pages on each specific vessel. — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 21:06, 3 December 2005 (EST)

==Armament Details==

* ''With 512 Point-Defense Turrets, thats 1024 PD Guns, and from onscreen evidence, the Rounds Per Minute is atleast 90 or more. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Assuming a firing rate of 2 rounds per second, thats 120 rounds per minute, and from all turrets equates to 122,880 rounds per minute. 2048 rounds per second. Thats alot. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Considering a raider has been shown to be destroyed with around 4-10 direct hits, this means that should raiders enter the firing solution, would take only a few seconds to get blown up. If targetted by the PD turrets, less then a second. It would take a single turret 1 second to destroy a raider. That isn't accounting for maneuverability of the raider however. (fan estimation.)''
* ''Also, with 24 Rail gun turrets, thats, 48 rail gun , Barrels, if you will. Atleast 960 Rounds per minute (1 round per 3 seconds)''
** ''Onscreen evidence shows around 1 round firing per 2-3 seconds (please correct if wrong). Going with the 1 round-2 seconds, you get a single turret firing in a minute, 60 rounds. times that by 24 and you come to 1,440 rounds per minute.''
** ''Due the turrets being "rail guns", the rounds go much faster then the rounds fired from the PD turrets. This means that a single hit to a raider should destroy it due to the kenetic energy imparted to the raider. If this is true, then a battlestar, with accurate aiming, could take out 1,440 raiders in a minute. Thats like, double the estimated capacity of a basestar! Thats if every shot is a direct hit.''

This is interesting. Do you have a source for: the number of point-defense turrets, the number of rail guns, and the ''existance'' of rail guns (on-screen evidence indicates a three-rail design, which is inconsistant with the physics of a rail gun)? I don't think any of those things have been shown or mentioned on screen yet.

This line of inquiry might enable us to speculate on the Battlestar's total ammo store, if we can derive our estimates from good data. However, the concept of a Basestar sending two raider wings directly into Galactica's firing solution is a little silly. ''Galactica's'' firing solution has been used to provide cover for vipers and screen the ship from nukes, not to target enemy fightercraft directly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:55, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::''Aramaments - Defensive''
::* ''24 x primary railgun turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)
::* ''512 x point-defense turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)''

:according to the wiki entry.
:also pictures on there show the existance of the rail guns. 8 ontop. 8 on the under side of the 'crocodile head', and 8 on the underbelly.

:the Rate of Fire is all my doing however.

:can someone get me a short video of when the ship actually fires? cuz im actualy needing this much detail for something im doing (and using this wiki as a reference for).

:its guessing though i counted erm, 498 turrets myself.
:and worked out for that too , ive got those calculations somewhere.

:keeping in mind some of the personnel guns they have, that fire ate more-then-1-round-per-second (in some cases. for instance a gattling gun, while not seen onscreen they likely have one, what with theyre parralels with earth tech)..
:its more then realistic RoF for each turret no?

:asfor the rail gun RoF
:on second thought,
:ill need to re-examine the footage of the rail guns firing.
:theyre not said to be rail guns but theres a shot somewhere of 4 turrets , that resemble the rail guns, firing.
:ok ill stop now.

:thx for the, well, not going mad :)

:edit - oh sos forget this: --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 12:26, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::Be careful when citing unsourced fan-estimates in your calculations. I don't think those stats on turret count should even be there without a source. This article needs some serious cleanup in that regard. As for rate of fire, that can probably be estimated by frame-stepping through the relevant effects scenes in the miniseries. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:39, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Shall I upload my modified pics of the underbelly, top and side somewhere and link them in here for others to count? i can link to both the unmodified and the modified versions so people can compare each individual one. and asfor the frame-stepping, is there a scene of the galactica firing, upclose in the first 5 episodes? --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 14:04, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I think it would be better for you to upload it to your own web space if possible and then post links here, if that's possible. It would be interesting to see. Close-ups on Galactica's guns firing can be found in the mini-series, and I believe the footage was reused in "33". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:57, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I just wanted to point out that the Galactica has 20 heavy turrets, not 24. There are eight on each of the dorsal and ventral sides and four under the nose of the fore-section. You can see these on the Zoic high-res pictures of the Big G. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:53, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::I uploaded a picture to show what I mean. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:09, 28 September 2005 (EDT) [[Image:BSG_Ortho_Bottom.jpg|thumb]]
:::::::Excellent. Can the smaller guns also be seen on the elevations? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:29, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, especially on the flight pod. There are other batteries along the top and bottom of the fore-section split, the top of the central hull, below the flight pods, and along both upper and lower engine pods. These are just the ones I've found though. I'll upload the other ortho views now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:35, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::Actualy i can show you where the extra 4 come from!!! they are partially hidden . 2 on either side on the crocidile head. the hull plating left on either side of the underbelly, look there and youll see the other 4. *smiles like a know-it-all. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:19, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::::If you mean the ones visible in the ventral elevation, I think Talos was including those in his count. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:35, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::::those are fully visible. theres 4 at the very front and 2 either side of the underbelly partially visible. ill upload the pic when i get the change.
::::::::::::No need, I see them. Odd place for them, their range of motion must be quite constrained. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::: (okay all these colons are really making this page long vertically. go 3-4-5-3 etc lol. anyway. ive uploaded to imageshack the pic so if anyone wants to count them and compare like i did go ahead. erm its 6:45am and had 3 hours sleep so , i forgot, how do i link? lol. img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottomguns8ns.jpg (edit into a link for us. cheers) btw the pic is huge. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:44, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:Man, those large turrets are well hidden. I did not see them until now. You can also see the long line of small turrets along the edges of the main body. Look at the red markings on the bottom and go straight down until you reach the edge. You'll see them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:20, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

Changed "Each barrel fires non-explosive rounds in bursts" to explosive rounds. I mean, take a look at the screen cap from "Scattered" right in the same section and the data on Galactica's main batteries. Her large guns aren't capable of generating the dense flak barrier seen in the episode, their rate of fire and coverage are just too low. Besides, her main guns are generally used in direct fire roles. Even assuming Galactica's secondary batteries are only firing the same rounds as the Vipers (which they probably don't, Galactica's secondaries look considerably larger than Viper's guns), a 25-30mm round is plenty large to have a time-fuse. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 14:04, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I'd accept not mentioning whether they're incendiary rounds or not, but we have no positive evidence to that effect. I think that it's entirely plausible that the eight dorsal batteries, each firing two rounds in tandem every 2.5 seconds (for a total of 6.4 rounds per second) could produce a flack screen as dense as the one we saw in "Scattered". Remember, based on the explosion we saw in the miniseries, the burst radius of each flak round is very large. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:50, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Except large explosions weren't characteristic of the flak barrier in "Scattered". Watch the episode again, the barrier consists of large numbers of *little* explosions surrounding most of the ship. Further more, 6.4 rounds a second still wouldn't be enough to cover a ship the size of Galactica the way the flak barrier in the episode did, especially since Galactica's primary batteries have a limited arc (they can't depress all that low). --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 20:25, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::As seen in this screencap (http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Flakfield.jpg), the aft turrets cluster is engaging off to the right of the the Viper with concentrated fire. However, there are flak rounds going off all around the ship. The front cluster can't generate such a large cloud alone, especially when you watch that scene in motion. Furthermore, since the secondary batteries are large enough to fire fused rounds of today and we've extrapolated much of BSG's KEW characteristics from modern cannons already, there's no reason why we can't here as well. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

Where exactly does the count of 24 large turrets onboard the Galactica come from? We've only seen 8 turrets and assuming symmetry between dorsal and ventral mountings, that'd still only be 16. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

==This Article Needs Work==

Who will join me in stripping this article of non-canon information and clearly labelling sources? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:07, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

: A challenge, but I like that. Perhaps we can move the Zoic information to a new page, as it is close to canon as we've got since they are part of the production process, although little of their info can be collaborated yet. We probably need to have this page moved to "Original Battlestar" or "Battlestar (RDM)" or somehow disamb it. Or, just offload the TOS info to another page. In a way I'm also big on placing the tech stats with the other technology pages to keep it easy to edit and read for both pages. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:28, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think [[Wikipedia:Aircraft carrier|Aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Yorktown class aircraft carrier|Yorktown class aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Nimitz class aircraft carrier|Nimitz class aircraft carrier]].

::Lastly, we must find an actual link to the Zoic source on all these details if we're going to keep them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:::That sounds good. I should be able to do the heavy work of moving data from the general "Battlestar" page to new pages for TOS and RDM battlestars and classes we know, and each of these pages will have links to their appropriate TOS or RDM named battlestar page. I may not strike the Zoic stuff yet, but at least by moving matters to separate pages, it will be much more manageable. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:28, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

The heavy work is done. This article has become a disamb page for all battlestar information. Unfortunately I did not properly move the [[Galactica]] page to [[Galactica (RDM)]], but created a new page instead. The content of the new page is OK, but the [[Galactica]] page should redirect to Galactica (RDM) to keep its history. There are several new pages that link from this page. The Pegasus (RDM) page deserved an article of its own and its page was moved, while Pegasus TOS from the original Battlestar page had only a few lines that were merged into [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. The new Galactica RDM class has [[Battlestar (RDM)]] for that general information. [[Mercury-class]] was moved to [[Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)]] to keep its history and keep article consistency. Galactica has a TOS and RDM page (note earlier screw up) as well as Battlestars of TOS. I hope this aids greatly in keeping mixed information from becoming a bother. This does create bad links throughout, but the primary ones to catch are [[Galactica]] (which should redirect to Galactica (RDM) unless on a TOS area), Pegasus (which should go to Pegasus (RDM) if new, or Battlestar (TOS) if not). Comments, criticizm and help are appreciated. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

:Okay, I just finished a bit of cleanup. I've moved "Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)" to "Mercury-Class Battlestar", since there's no need to disambiguate it from a TOS page of the same name that might ever exist. I've also corrected the namespace on "Galactica (Video Game 2003) to "Galactica (Video Game)", which is the namespace the other articles use. I've created a redirect from "Galactica" to "Galactica (RDM)", and moved the talk bage from "Talk:Battlestar" to "Talk:Battlestar (RDM)" (there were no TOS-specific comments there). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

::Thanks. The Mercury-class remove makes sense. Although I added RDM on those namespaces for consistency, your move simplifies the namespaces. There have been many games for BSG over the years, thus the use of the year just in case someone starts discussing other older games or new games are created. We can worry about that later. With the separations, we can see how some pages really could use more content, especially the TOS Galactica page. That's pretty sad, when you think of it. Perhaps another enterprising person can fill it will some general history. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:02, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

==Battletar Tally==

This page, like [[Mercury-class Battlestar]] is for a specific (albeit unnamed) class of battletar. A tally of the fleet's unclassified battlestars is not appropriate here, and should go in [[Colonial Fleet]].
:Makes sense. For lack of a better place to put it, I left it as a vestigial part from its former article. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:52, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

==Capitalization==

Battlestar isn't a proper noun, so it shouldn't be capitalized in article names. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:04, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:I've been wrestling with that. So, when using battlestar, it seems fine to capitalize it ''as'' an article when next to a battlestar name, as in "Battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica". But when discussing the ship it should be "battlestar" just as we would use "carrier" and not "Carrier" for aircraft carriers. I find the use of "the battlestar ''Galactica'' awkward: no definitive article required there when the ship name is next to it. An item for the Standards page? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

::Based on usage on the Wikipedia WWII articles, it would be either "the battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica" or just "''Galactica'' left for Caprica". The only time Battlestar should be capitalized is in the title of the show. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:50, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

:::So say they all. It shall be done. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:41, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

==Warheads==

In the [[Miniseries]], Geata reports that the chief says it will be three hours to load all the warheads. I think this establishes that Galactica was, in fact, loading nukes from Ragnar, and that the five it departed the system with (c.f. Bastille Day) were all it could carry. The number does seem low to me, but what other sort of warhead would they be talking about? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:16, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:Maybe conventional missile warheads and bombs for the Vipers, possibly conventional warheads for Galactica, and warheads for the shells fired by the main cannons. It shouldn't take three hours to load five warheads, even nukes. It's possible that Ragnar only had five warheads. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:05, 30 December 2005 (EST)
::The main cannons would probably fire shells, not warheads, and we haven't seen any non-nuclear warheads used by the Colonials so far. I agree that it's possible Ragnar's stores were the limiting factor, though, rather than ''Galactica's'' capacity. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:::Shells and warheads are two ways of talking about fused explosive payloads, the difference is in the mechanical execution rather than the function. The more we see of the main batteries in BSG, the more they look like the chemical energy driven weapons of today (most recently, the Pegasus' guns discharging fiery clouds). In that case, since we know firing nukes from artillery pieces is possible (Galactica's guns look much larger than the 203mm of the US Army) AND Galactica's nukes are shown to be very compact, there's every reason to believe that gun batteries are a possible way of delivering nuclear warheads. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:51, 18 March 2006 (CST)

==Article Title==
Something Memory Alpha does for articles on unnamed ship classes is refer to them as "___ type" rather than "___ class", where the article would be named after the most prominent ship of the class rather than the (unknown) lead ship. You can see this at:
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aeon type|Aeon type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Artic One type|Artic One type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aurora type|Aurora type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Bok'Nor type|Bok'Nor type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Kyr type|D'Kyr type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Vahl type|D'Vahl type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Intrepid type|Intrepid type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Raven type|Raven type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:SD-103 type|SD-103 type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:USS Enterprise-J type|USS Enterprise-J type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:XCV type|XCV type]]
What do our military experts think of this sort of nomenclature? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:34, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:That sounds good, the only question is: Is it battlestar Galactica-type, or Galactica-type battlestar? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:55, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::I'd go for "Galactica type battlestar" to match "Mercury class battlestar", personally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:00, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:::I tend to agree. "Original battlestar" as a title is both ambiguous (is this page about the first battlestar ever built?) and clumsy. Galactica-type Battlestar should be the new title, and the move should be done sooner rather than later. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::::I concur, and we should make similar it to what we have as shown: "Galactica type battlestar" (no hyphens). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:40, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Bow batteries ==
There's a new line about bow batteries, but doesn't that apply to the Mercury-class (''Pegasus'') and not the Galactica type battlestar? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:20, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes. I'm removing it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:38, 20 February 2006 (EST)
::I was in the middle of doing that and got an edit conflict. Oh well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:40, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== ''Where'' exactly did this quote come from? ==

I removed the following quote from this page, because while it attributes who said the quote, we don't have a ''source'' for the quote (i.e. where it came from).

: I was asking Gary Hutzel to give me the technical specs just last week, actually. I think he described the flight pods [hangar decks] as being about four football fields in length." (source: Robert Falconer)

Please provide a source for the quote (whether it be an interview, bulletin board post, etc.) ASAP. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Capacity of Galactica's Hangers==
I'd like to point something out about the fighter carring capabilities of battlestars. Apparently all fighters on battlestars are carried in the 2 flight pods(one flight pod in Galactica's case). Each flight pod as stated in the Galactica Type Battlestar "is almost twice the length of a Nimitz class carrier, is some 150ft (46m) wider and is approximately as tall as a Nimitz class carrier measured from the waterline to the top of the carrier's communications and ELINT tower." Now assuming that the hangar deck on the Nimitz is as long as the flight deck (which is not),considering that the lower level of the flight pod of the Galactica is the hangar for that flight pod and not taking in to account that the flight pod is wider then the Nimitz hull at the level of the hangar deck, the surface of the hangar deck in a flight pod is twice that of a Nimitz class carrier. Galactica has at last 4 times the hangar space of the Nimitz. The Nimitza can carrie 85 aircraft, 50 of which ar fighters. So I don't know how the person who wrote this article came up with the figure of 80 Vipers carried in a fully armed battlestar,since this number would't even fill a quarter of the hangar space.What did they do with the rest of the hangar, play football maybe, or baseball? Take in to acoount that a Viper is about 8 times smaller in volume than an F-14, having half the lenght,wingspan and height, and a raptor just about as big. A Galactica type battlestar would be able to carry at least 400 Vipers and Raptors.
:I was looking at the orthos of Big-G a second ago and I think that the hanger isn't a very wide structure. The elevator that 2276NC lands on in the Mini is in the center of the hanger and is shown to be significantly off-center from the flight deck. The launch tubes also seem to take up alot of the flight pod. Even the Nimitz class can carry more aircraft than they do. Plus, Galactica has to carry Raptors, a half dozen or so, so it's not just Vipers. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::My thinking is like this picture. The box I drew extends across all the launch tubes visible in the side view, plus a little in the rear for maintenance and storage. This would protect the hanger from damage, like after the nuke in the Mini. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:12, 15 March 2006 (CST)
[[Image:Hanger.JPG|thumb|Hanger example]]

:::As far as "what else is all the hanger space used for", we've seen ships as large as Colonial One docking inside the flight pods. (Although Colonial One isn't that large...) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:02, 15 March 2006 (CST)

The area you drew Talos is still larger the the hangar of the Nimitz. Look at the picture that compares the Nimitz to the Galactica, and take in to accout that the hangar deck has a smaller width then the then the flight deck. The rectangle that you drew is about the width of the hanagar on a Nimitz and is still longer. And you should take in to account that a Viper Mk VII according to the page on this site is 9.8643 m long has a wingspan of 5.61 m and is 2.9508 m high (in flight, without landing gear.) the Naval fighter equivalent woould be the F-18 C/D(I'm not considering the larger E/F variant) which is has an overall length of 17,07, an width of 8.38 m wings folded and a height of 4,66m. The F-18 C/D is almost twice as long as wide and as tall as a Viper. A Nimtz class carrier carries 50 F-18 (both the C/D variant and the larger E/F variant which has replaced the F-14 in all but 2 naval squadrons). A Galactica type should be able to carrie at least 90 Vipers and 35 oher suport aircraft larger then the Raptor (the 35 suport aircraft carried buy the Nimitz are all larger then the Raptor) in a single flight pod.--[[User:DArhengel|DArhengel]] 12:37, 16 March 2006 (CST)
:I went back to the DVDs and it appears that they only store Vipers along one side of the hanger, with most of the other wall being launch tubes. In the mini, there is a nice shot down the hanger after Apollo lands. A Mk VII is parked in a niche and going by that, it looks like the hanger is ~20 meters wide (useable space, not including supports, etc). The hanger appears to be very long but narrow which would make the best use of the space considering the size of the craft and the need for launch tubes and elevators (I believe the elevators are between the banks of launch tubes). I'll go figure out the length and update the example I showed above. Thanks for the stimulating conversation, by the way, it's a fun topic for me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:09, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-03-18T17:41:46Z

David Templar: /* Armament Details */

I think the "fan estimate" of 6-8 Viper squads is off. According to http://galactica.tv/colonials/galacticatv.shtml, the Galactica had only 2 Viper squadrons. Since it was a museum ship, it's possible this is less than the usual complement.

-- John Reese

-------

Hi John,

Thanks for contributing! It's nice to see that the site's picking up now!

Actually, there are bits of information on the Galactica.tv (or Galactica2003.tv) website that are suspect, such as Tigh's first name being "Paul", as opposed to the canonized "Saul". We mainly use the episodes for canonical information; the Zoic, as the Colonial Archivist (Ernestborg9) can tell you, is mainly conjecture unless canonical info shows up to disprove it.

However, [[Battlestar|Battlestars]] in general carry 6-8 sqads; [[Galactica]] does carry two. (Or did, as I'm sure that the Galactica is now left with, at most, one full squadron of Mark IIs from the [[Mini-Series]], over the course of the series.)

- Joe

== Other Battlestars ==

Since the encounter of the Pegasus we have learned of another type of Battlestar,
will this page be edited in regard of this?

Another point is the appearence of the Galactica before the ship has been refitted
after the war. Is it clear that it had the appearance of the orginal show or is this
unclear?

Hardwing

: I've updated the page to reflect that this page deals primarily with the original battlestar class, of which ''Galactica'' is a member. I added a note on ''Pegasus'' and her class. There is a page for the [[Mercury-class]] battlestar, which could be edited and updated as this one as we get more technical information on that ship class. Note that only battlestars mentioned in an episode are canon; the rest technically may be made-up until then. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:00, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

=== Battlestar Article Structure ===

Since the term '''battlestar''' is a category of ship (analogous to space faring aircraft-carriers) shouldn't the content discussing battlestars in the RDM series, in overview terms, be moved to the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page, and there list the two classes we know of so far, the Mercury class and the "Galactica" class (i.e. "Original battlestar (RDM)" which we don't know the name of)..?

This would then have the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page discussing the overall details of the "''Galactica'' class" battlestar, like we are doing with the [[Mercury class battlestar]] page which is about the class, and the [[Pegasus (RDM)]] page which deals with the specific vessel.

So in essence the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page is the "root" page for the RDM entry on battlestars as a whole, then the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page about the "''Galactica'' class" battlestars in general, and the [[Galactica (RDM)]] page about the specifc vessel ''Galactica'':

==== Proposed restructuring ====

*[[Battlestar (RDM)]] (page about battlestars in general, i.e. "aircraft carriers")
**[[Original battlestar (RDM)]] (page about the original unnamed class as a whole)
***[[Galactica (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
**[[Mercury class battlestar]] (page about the Mercury class as a whole)
***[[Pegasus (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
***[[Mercury]] page (page about the specific vessel)

Thus leaving the [[Battlestar]] page as the top level disambiguation page between series. So everything within the RDM series about battlestars would fall within the outlined framework above beginning with the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page.

:We don't have much content to say about battlestars in general, and what we do would be redundant with [[Colonial Fleet]]. I agree that "other battlestar" references should probably be removed from this page, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 2 December 2005 (EST)

::Why would you want to remove reference to the other battlestars in this page? There are references made as to how there were 12 of the Original RDM class battlestars each representing one of the colonies (miniseries). Seems to me that the general overview information about the Original RDM class as a whole should be the content here, with listings of and links to the individual vessels of this class (''Galactica'' being one of course). — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:I think the Battlestar (RDM) link is a nice redirect link to Original Battlestar (RDM), but I'd avoid yet another disambig page. The show is focused on the events of ''Galactica''. It is very likely that ''Pegasus'' will disappear, one way or another, and that the modern battlestar will a footnote with no further additional data. Most readers will also be thinking of ''Galactica'' when they hear "battlestar" and not the lesser battlestars, almost all of which are mentioned-only and are very likely to remain that way, flashbacks notwithstanding. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:36, 2 December 2005 (EST)

:: I probably should not have used the term disambiguation page as it would be an actual content page (was actually thinking more of a root entry or overview entry), but rather a page devoted to general overview content on the nature of battlestars as capital ships, discussion of general concepts of flight operations, battlegroup structures, etc. With the links to the various classes of battlestars. While I understand that we may not get an abundance of canonical info on them from the show itself, I guess this begs the question of the extent to which the encyclopedia content is about "the show" and how much is about the Galactica universe within the show? I personally was hoping that this would be the platform and vehicle to collect and fill-in and expand on the later. Where things are structured and presented as a "NPOV" encyclopedia "from" the Galactica universe (or as sometimes referred to in gaming terms as a 'poetic map' or 'real map' that a player-character would have). Think of it as if we had an "actual" Hitchhiker's Guide (albeit "serious and accurate" not the apocryphal one portrayed in the books and movies, etc) "from" the Galactica universe which is then 'viewed' here (i.e. the entry content of the encyclopedia portions of this site) — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

::: I really think [[Colonial Fleet]] is perfectly adequate to that task. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:12, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::: Ok, now I am a bit confused. Becuase before (I just read now) you seemed to be advocating basically the same thing when you said:

::::"We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think Aircraft carrier, Yorktown class aircraft carrier, Nimitz class aircraft carrier. --Peter Farago 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)"

::::Which is why I was porposing shifting sections of overview content about battlestars and the basics of them, to the "root" battlestar (RDM) page (no longer a redriect)... then specifics about each class as the next level pages, then entries pages on each specific vessel. — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 21:06, 3 December 2005 (EST)

==Armament Details==

* ''With 512 Point-Defense Turrets, thats 1024 PD Guns, and from onscreen evidence, the Rounds Per Minute is atleast 90 or more. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Assuming a firing rate of 2 rounds per second, thats 120 rounds per minute, and from all turrets equates to 122,880 rounds per minute. 2048 rounds per second. Thats alot. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Considering a raider has been shown to be destroyed with around 4-10 direct hits, this means that should raiders enter the firing solution, would take only a few seconds to get blown up. If targetted by the PD turrets, less then a second. It would take a single turret 1 second to destroy a raider. That isn't accounting for maneuverability of the raider however. (fan estimation.)''
* ''Also, with 24 Rail gun turrets, thats, 48 rail gun , Barrels, if you will. Atleast 960 Rounds per minute (1 round per 3 seconds)''
** ''Onscreen evidence shows around 1 round firing per 2-3 seconds (please correct if wrong). Going with the 1 round-2 seconds, you get a single turret firing in a minute, 60 rounds. times that by 24 and you come to 1,440 rounds per minute.''
** ''Due the turrets being "rail guns", the rounds go much faster then the rounds fired from the PD turrets. This means that a single hit to a raider should destroy it due to the kenetic energy imparted to the raider. If this is true, then a battlestar, with accurate aiming, could take out 1,440 raiders in a minute. Thats like, double the estimated capacity of a basestar! Thats if every shot is a direct hit.''

This is interesting. Do you have a source for: the number of point-defense turrets, the number of rail guns, and the ''existance'' of rail guns (on-screen evidence indicates a three-rail design, which is inconsistant with the physics of a rail gun)? I don't think any of those things have been shown or mentioned on screen yet.

This line of inquiry might enable us to speculate on the Battlestar's total ammo store, if we can derive our estimates from good data. However, the concept of a Basestar sending two raider wings directly into Galactica's firing solution is a little silly. ''Galactica's'' firing solution has been used to provide cover for vipers and screen the ship from nukes, not to target enemy fightercraft directly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:55, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::''Aramaments - Defensive''
::* ''24 x primary railgun turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)
::* ''512 x point-defense turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)''

:according to the wiki entry.
:also pictures on there show the existance of the rail guns. 8 ontop. 8 on the under side of the 'crocodile head', and 8 on the underbelly.

:the Rate of Fire is all my doing however.

:can someone get me a short video of when the ship actually fires? cuz im actualy needing this much detail for something im doing (and using this wiki as a reference for).

:its guessing though i counted erm, 498 turrets myself.
:and worked out for that too , ive got those calculations somewhere.

:keeping in mind some of the personnel guns they have, that fire ate more-then-1-round-per-second (in some cases. for instance a gattling gun, while not seen onscreen they likely have one, what with theyre parralels with earth tech)..
:its more then realistic RoF for each turret no?

:asfor the rail gun RoF
:on second thought,
:ill need to re-examine the footage of the rail guns firing.
:theyre not said to be rail guns but theres a shot somewhere of 4 turrets , that resemble the rail guns, firing.
:ok ill stop now.

:thx for the, well, not going mad :)

:edit - oh sos forget this: --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 12:26, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::Be careful when citing unsourced fan-estimates in your calculations. I don't think those stats on turret count should even be there without a source. This article needs some serious cleanup in that regard. As for rate of fire, that can probably be estimated by frame-stepping through the relevant effects scenes in the miniseries. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:39, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Shall I upload my modified pics of the underbelly, top and side somewhere and link them in here for others to count? i can link to both the unmodified and the modified versions so people can compare each individual one. and asfor the frame-stepping, is there a scene of the galactica firing, upclose in the first 5 episodes? --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 14:04, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I think it would be better for you to upload it to your own web space if possible and then post links here, if that's possible. It would be interesting to see. Close-ups on Galactica's guns firing can be found in the mini-series, and I believe the footage was reused in "33". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:57, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I just wanted to point out that the Galactica has 20 heavy turrets, not 24. There are eight on each of the dorsal and ventral sides and four under the nose of the fore-section. You can see these on the Zoic high-res pictures of the Big G. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:53, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::I uploaded a picture to show what I mean. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:09, 28 September 2005 (EDT) [[Image:BSG_Ortho_Bottom.jpg|thumb]]
:::::::Excellent. Can the smaller guns also be seen on the elevations? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:29, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, especially on the flight pod. There are other batteries along the top and bottom of the fore-section split, the top of the central hull, below the flight pods, and along both upper and lower engine pods. These are just the ones I've found though. I'll upload the other ortho views now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:35, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::Actualy i can show you where the extra 4 come from!!! they are partially hidden . 2 on either side on the crocidile head. the hull plating left on either side of the underbelly, look there and youll see the other 4. *smiles like a know-it-all. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:19, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::::If you mean the ones visible in the ventral elevation, I think Talos was including those in his count. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:35, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::::those are fully visible. theres 4 at the very front and 2 either side of the underbelly partially visible. ill upload the pic when i get the change.
::::::::::::No need, I see them. Odd place for them, their range of motion must be quite constrained. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::: (okay all these colons are really making this page long vertically. go 3-4-5-3 etc lol. anyway. ive uploaded to imageshack the pic so if anyone wants to count them and compare like i did go ahead. erm its 6:45am and had 3 hours sleep so , i forgot, how do i link? lol. img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottomguns8ns.jpg (edit into a link for us. cheers) btw the pic is huge. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:44, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:Man, those large turrets are well hidden. I did not see them until now. You can also see the long line of small turrets along the edges of the main body. Look at the red markings on the bottom and go straight down until you reach the edge. You'll see them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:20, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

Changed "Each barrel fires non-explosive rounds in bursts" to explosive rounds. I mean, take a look at the screen cap from "Scattered" right in the same section and the data on Galactica's main batteries. Her large guns aren't capable of generating the dense flak barrier seen in the episode, their rate of fire and coverage are just too low. Besides, her main guns are generally used in direct fire roles. Even assuming Galactica's secondary batteries are only firing the same rounds as the Vipers (which they probably don't, Galactica's secondaries look considerably larger than Viper's guns), a 25-30mm round is plenty large to have a time-fuse. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 14:04, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I'd accept not mentioning whether they're incendiary rounds or not, but we have no positive evidence to that effect. I think that it's entirely plausible that the eight dorsal batteries, each firing two rounds in tandem every 2.5 seconds (for a total of 6.4 rounds per second) could produce a flack screen as dense as the one we saw in "Scattered". Remember, based on the explosion we saw in the miniseries, the burst radius of each flak round is very large. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:50, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Except large explosions weren't characteristic of the flak barrier in "Scattered". Watch the episode again, the barrier consists of large numbers of *little* explosions surrounding most of the ship. Further more, 6.4 rounds a second still wouldn't be enough to cover a ship the size of Galactica the way the flak barrier in the episode did, especially since Galactica's primary batteries have a limited arc (they can't depress all that low). --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 20:25, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::As seen in this screencap (http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Flakfield.jpg), the aft turrets cluster is engaging off to the right of the the Viper with concentrated fire. However, there are flak rounds going off all around the ship. The front cluster can't generate such a large cloud alone, especially when you watch that scene in motion. Furthermore, since the secondary batteries are large enough to fire fused rounds of today and we've extrapolated much of BSG's KEW characteristics from modern cannons already, there's no reason why we can't here as well. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

Where exactly does the count of 24 large turrets onboard the Galactica come from? We've only seen 8 turrets and assuming symmetry between dorsal and ventral mountings, that'd still only be 16. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 11:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

==This Article Needs Work==

Who will join me in stripping this article of non-canon information and clearly labelling sources? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:07, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

: A challenge, but I like that. Perhaps we can move the Zoic information to a new page, as it is close to canon as we've got since they are part of the production process, although little of their info can be collaborated yet. We probably need to have this page moved to "Original Battlestar" or "Battlestar (RDM)" or somehow disamb it. Or, just offload the TOS info to another page. In a way I'm also big on placing the tech stats with the other technology pages to keep it easy to edit and read for both pages. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:28, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think [[Wikipedia:Aircraft carrier|Aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Yorktown class aircraft carrier|Yorktown class aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Nimitz class aircraft carrier|Nimitz class aircraft carrier]].

::Lastly, we must find an actual link to the Zoic source on all these details if we're going to keep them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:::That sounds good. I should be able to do the heavy work of moving data from the general "Battlestar" page to new pages for TOS and RDM battlestars and classes we know, and each of these pages will have links to their appropriate TOS or RDM named battlestar page. I may not strike the Zoic stuff yet, but at least by moving matters to separate pages, it will be much more manageable. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:28, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

The heavy work is done. This article has become a disamb page for all battlestar information. Unfortunately I did not properly move the [[Galactica]] page to [[Galactica (RDM)]], but created a new page instead. The content of the new page is OK, but the [[Galactica]] page should redirect to Galactica (RDM) to keep its history. There are several new pages that link from this page. The Pegasus (RDM) page deserved an article of its own and its page was moved, while Pegasus TOS from the original Battlestar page had only a few lines that were merged into [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. The new Galactica RDM class has [[Battlestar (RDM)]] for that general information. [[Mercury-class]] was moved to [[Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)]] to keep its history and keep article consistency. Galactica has a TOS and RDM page (note earlier screw up) as well as Battlestars of TOS. I hope this aids greatly in keeping mixed information from becoming a bother. This does create bad links throughout, but the primary ones to catch are [[Galactica]] (which should redirect to Galactica (RDM) unless on a TOS area), Pegasus (which should go to Pegasus (RDM) if new, or Battlestar (TOS) if not). Comments, criticizm and help are appreciated. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

:Okay, I just finished a bit of cleanup. I've moved "Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)" to "Mercury-Class Battlestar", since there's no need to disambiguate it from a TOS page of the same name that might ever exist. I've also corrected the namespace on "Galactica (Video Game 2003) to "Galactica (Video Game)", which is the namespace the other articles use. I've created a redirect from "Galactica" to "Galactica (RDM)", and moved the talk bage from "Talk:Battlestar" to "Talk:Battlestar (RDM)" (there were no TOS-specific comments there). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

::Thanks. The Mercury-class remove makes sense. Although I added RDM on those namespaces for consistency, your move simplifies the namespaces. There have been many games for BSG over the years, thus the use of the year just in case someone starts discussing other older games or new games are created. We can worry about that later. With the separations, we can see how some pages really could use more content, especially the TOS Galactica page. That's pretty sad, when you think of it. Perhaps another enterprising person can fill it will some general history. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:02, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

==Battletar Tally==

This page, like [[Mercury-class Battlestar]] is for a specific (albeit unnamed) class of battletar. A tally of the fleet's unclassified battlestars is not appropriate here, and should go in [[Colonial Fleet]].
:Makes sense. For lack of a better place to put it, I left it as a vestigial part from its former article. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:52, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

==Capitalization==

Battlestar isn't a proper noun, so it shouldn't be capitalized in article names. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:04, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:I've been wrestling with that. So, when using battlestar, it seems fine to capitalize it ''as'' an article when next to a battlestar name, as in "Battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica". But when discussing the ship it should be "battlestar" just as we would use "carrier" and not "Carrier" for aircraft carriers. I find the use of "the battlestar ''Galactica'' awkward: no definitive article required there when the ship name is next to it. An item for the Standards page? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

::Based on usage on the Wikipedia WWII articles, it would be either "the battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica" or just "''Galactica'' left for Caprica". The only time Battlestar should be capitalized is in the title of the show. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:50, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

:::So say they all. It shall be done. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:41, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

==Warheads==

In the [[Miniseries]], Geata reports that the chief says it will be three hours to load all the warheads. I think this establishes that Galactica was, in fact, loading nukes from Ragnar, and that the five it departed the system with (c.f. Bastille Day) were all it could carry. The number does seem low to me, but what other sort of warhead would they be talking about? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:16, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:Maybe conventional missile warheads and bombs for the Vipers, possibly conventional warheads for Galactica, and warheads for the shells fired by the main cannons. It shouldn't take three hours to load five warheads, even nukes. It's possible that Ragnar only had five warheads. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:05, 30 December 2005 (EST)
::The main cannons would probably fire shells, not warheads, and we haven't seen any non-nuclear warheads used by the Colonials so far. I agree that it's possible Ragnar's stores were the limiting factor, though, rather than ''Galactica's'' capacity. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 30 December 2005 (EST)

==Article Title==
Something Memory Alpha does for articles on unnamed ship classes is refer to them as "___ type" rather than "___ class", where the article would be named after the most prominent ship of the class rather than the (unknown) lead ship. You can see this at:
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aeon type|Aeon type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Artic One type|Artic One type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aurora type|Aurora type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Bok'Nor type|Bok'Nor type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Kyr type|D'Kyr type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Vahl type|D'Vahl type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Intrepid type|Intrepid type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Raven type|Raven type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:SD-103 type|SD-103 type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:USS Enterprise-J type|USS Enterprise-J type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:XCV type|XCV type]]
What do our military experts think of this sort of nomenclature? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:34, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:That sounds good, the only question is: Is it battlestar Galactica-type, or Galactica-type battlestar? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:55, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::I'd go for "Galactica type battlestar" to match "Mercury class battlestar", personally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:00, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:::I tend to agree. "Original battlestar" as a title is both ambiguous (is this page about the first battlestar ever built?) and clumsy. Galactica-type Battlestar should be the new title, and the move should be done sooner rather than later. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::::I concur, and we should make similar it to what we have as shown: "Galactica type battlestar" (no hyphens). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:40, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Bow batteries ==
There's a new line about bow batteries, but doesn't that apply to the Mercury-class (''Pegasus'') and not the Galactica type battlestar? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:20, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes. I'm removing it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:38, 20 February 2006 (EST)
::I was in the middle of doing that and got an edit conflict. Oh well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:40, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== ''Where'' exactly did this quote come from? ==

I removed the following quote from this page, because while it attributes who said the quote, we don't have a ''source'' for the quote (i.e. where it came from).

: I was asking Gary Hutzel to give me the technical specs just last week, actually. I think he described the flight pods [hangar decks] as being about four football fields in length." (source: Robert Falconer)

Please provide a source for the quote (whether it be an interview, bulletin board post, etc.) ASAP. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Capacity of Galactica's Hangers==
I'd like to point something out about the fighter carring capabilities of battlestars. Apparently all fighters on battlestars are carried in the 2 flight pods(one flight pod in Galactica's case). Each flight pod as stated in the Galactica Type Battlestar "is almost twice the length of a Nimitz class carrier, is some 150ft (46m) wider and is approximately as tall as a Nimitz class carrier measured from the waterline to the top of the carrier's communications and ELINT tower." Now assuming that the hangar deck on the Nimitz is as long as the flight deck (which is not),considering that the lower level of the flight pod of the Galactica is the hangar for that flight pod and not taking in to account that the flight pod is wider then the Nimitz hull at the level of the hangar deck, the surface of the hangar deck in a flight pod is twice that of a Nimitz class carrier. Galactica has at last 4 times the hangar space of the Nimitz. The Nimitza can carrie 85 aircraft, 50 of which ar fighters. So I don't know how the person who wrote this article came up with the figure of 80 Vipers carried in a fully armed battlestar,since this number would't even fill a quarter of the hangar space.What did they do with the rest of the hangar, play football maybe, or baseball? Take in to acoount that a Viper is about 8 times smaller in volume than an F-14, having half the lenght,wingspan and height, and a raptor just about as big. A Galactica type battlestar would be able to carry at least 400 Vipers and Raptors.
:I was looking at the orthos of Big-G a second ago and I think that the hanger isn't a very wide structure. The elevator that 2276NC lands on in the Mini is in the center of the hanger and is shown to be significantly off-center from the flight deck. The launch tubes also seem to take up alot of the flight pod. Even the Nimitz class can carry more aircraft than they do. Plus, Galactica has to carry Raptors, a half dozen or so, so it's not just Vipers. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::My thinking is like this picture. The box I drew extends across all the launch tubes visible in the side view, plus a little in the rear for maintenance and storage. This would protect the hanger from damage, like after the nuke in the Mini. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:12, 15 March 2006 (CST)
[[Image:Hanger.JPG|thumb|Hanger example]]

:::As far as "what else is all the hanger space used for", we've seen ships as large as Colonial One docking inside the flight pods. (Although Colonial One isn't that large...) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:02, 15 March 2006 (CST)

The area you drew Talos is still larger the the hangar of the Nimitz. Look at the picture that compares the Nimitz to the Galactica, and take in to accout that the hangar deck has a smaller width then the then the flight deck. The rectangle that you drew is about the width of the hanagar on a Nimitz and is still longer. And you should take in to account that a Viper Mk VII according to the page on this site is 9.8643 m long has a wingspan of 5.61 m and is 2.9508 m high (in flight, without landing gear.) the Naval fighter equivalent woould be the F-18 C/D(I'm not considering the larger E/F variant) which is has an overall length of 17,07, an width of 8.38 m wings folded and a height of 4,66m. The F-18 C/D is almost twice as long as wide and as tall as a Viper. A Nimtz class carrier carries 50 F-18 (both the C/D variant and the larger E/F variant which has replaced the F-14 in all but 2 naval squadrons). A Galactica type should be able to carrie at least 90 Vipers and 35 oher suport aircraft larger then the Raptor (the 35 suport aircraft carried buy the Nimitz are all larger then the Raptor) in a single flight pod.--[[User:DArhengel|DArhengel]] 12:37, 16 March 2006 (CST)
:I went back to the DVDs and it appears that they only store Vipers along one side of the hanger, with most of the other wall being launch tubes. In the mini, there is a nice shot down the hanger after Apollo lands. A Mk VII is parked in a niche and going by that, it looks like the hanger is ~20 meters wide (useable space, not including supports, etc). The hanger appears to be very long but narrow which would make the best use of the space considering the size of the craft and the need for launch tubes and elevators (I believe the elevators are between the banks of launch tubes). I'll go figure out the length and update the example I showed above. Thanks for the stimulating conversation, by the way, it's a fun topic for me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:09, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Galactica type battlestar

2006-03-18T17:25:28Z

David Templar: /* Armament */ Galactica main battery fires HE for anti-ship, flak for AAA; flak is fused

''This article discusses the original battlestar class (of which ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' is a member) of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]]. For information on the battlestars of the Original Series, see [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. For information on the newer ''Mercury'' class battlestars, see [[Mercury class battlestar]].''

[[Image:Bsg-bsg-1.jpg|thumb|250px|Original Colonial Battlestar (credit: Zoic)]]

==Overview==
[[Image:Destroyed Battlestar Mini.JPG|thumb|right|A destroyed ''Galactica'' type battlestar ([[Miniseries]]).]]
The '''''Galactica'' type battlestar''' is a capital Colonial warship that combines the functions of aircraft carrier and battleship. The first twelve battlestars were laid down in the early days of the [[Cylon War]], each representing one of the [[Twelve Colonies]] ([[Miniseries]]). This article concerns that original, and unnamed, class.

Following the end of the war, the original battlestars remained in service, and many newer battlestars were built. At the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], the newer [[Mercury-class Battlestar|''Mercury''-class]] represented the top of the line.

The original battlestars were space-going leviathans of some 4,640ft (1,547m) in length, housing 80 [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] space superiority fighters arranged in 4 squadrons of 20 apiece, and several nuclear warheads. A fully-armed battlestar is capable of a wide range of offensive actions, while her defensive armaments ensure she is fully capable of both protecting herself from attack, and of engaging an enemy at close quarters.

==Layout==
The design common to ''Galactica'' and her sister ships can be broken down into two main sections: the main hull, and the twin flight pods.

=== Main Hull ===

This comprises the bulk of a battlestar, and can, itself, be divided into three sections:

The "alligator head" contains the primary living space for the crew, recreational facilities, mess halls, shipboard operations centres (such as the [[CIC]] and [[Situation Room]]){{ref|nosource}}; water storage tanks ([[Water]]).

The midships area contains the pod retraction mechanisms, crossways linking the hanger pods for the transfer of equipment and personnel, as well as all the necessary hoists for such transfers ([[Miniseries]]). Main munitions stores and distribution mechanisms to "local" munitions stores for main and secondary batteries; fabrication facilities; etc {{ref_label|nosource|1|a}}.

The stern section contains sublight engines, [[FTL]] drive coils, etc. Note that 4 of the sublight engines are mounted externally in engine pods, with 2 more mounted between the pods, in the stern of the battlestar's main hull.

=== Flight Pods ===
The flight pods are mounted on either side of the hull and contain a battlestar's offensive [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] force. During normal operations, they are extended away from the main hull. During FTL jumps, the pods are retracted against the hull. Each pod comprises two main decks for flight operations: the upper landing bay, which extends the full length of the pod; and the lower launch bays, which provide some 40 launch tubes per pod.

The landing bay serves as a recovery area for incoming Vipers and [[Raptor]]s. Approaches are made from the stern. The preferred approach is a slow run into the landing bay, prior to making a vertical landing on a defined landing area. However, in emergencies, [[Combat Landing|combat landings]] can be made, in which a Viper or Raptor approaches at speed and makes a running landing on its undercarriage.

The forward end of the landing bay also serves as a launch area for Raptors and shuttles. The landing bay is large enough to accept a variety of other Colonial vessels, at least as large as "heavy" passenger ships such as ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]''. Docking collars are located throughout the upper sections of the landing bay in order to provide a pressurised connection between a docked vessel and the battlestar. The Flight Pods also have docking ports to dock with larger ships or stations.

The [[Hangar Deck|hangar deck]] within the a flight pod are used as general dispersal areas for Vipers. The hangar deck is used for maintenance & repair of Vipers / Raptors, re-fuelling, re-arming and launch operations. A hangar deck runs the length of the flight pod, but can be divided and sealed off into five sections for damage control puroposes. Each hangar deck section has eight launch tubes, two launch control stations, and an elevator that leads to the landing bay above. Viper flight operations are overseen by a [[Landing Signal Officer]], with each launch supervisor being directly responsible for all launch operations for a group of four launch tubes{{ref_label|nosource|1|b}}.

==Specifications==

===Dimensions===
Hull:
* Length: 4,640ft (1.414m)
* Beam: 1,820ft (555m) (flight pod to flight pod - extended)
* Draft: 580ft (177m) (source: [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ SciFi.com])

Flight Pods:
* Length (approx): 2,019ft (615m)
* Beam (approx): 360ft (110m)
* Draft (approx): 211ft (64m) {{ref|pods}}

[[Image:bsg-2-cvn.jpg|right|thumb|Battlestar / CVN comparison (credit: Zoic / VF)]]
''An appreciation of the size of an original battlestar can be gleaned from the following: A battlestar is over 4 times longer than a [[Wikipedia:USS Nimitz|''Nimitz'']]-class US Navy nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. The flight pod of an original battlestar is almost twice the length of a ''Nimitz'' class carrier, is some 150ft (46m) wider and is approximately as tall as a ''Nimitz'' class carrier measured from the waterline to the top of the carrier's communications and [[Wikipedia:ELINT|ELINT]] tower. The beam of an original battlestar's "alligator head" is as broad as a ''Nimitz''-class carrier's flight deck is long. Each of the nacelles of an original battlestar's outer four sublight engines is large enough to house a ''Nimitz''-class carrier.''

===Propulsion===
[[Image:Sublight.jpg|thumb|right|''Galactica'' with all six sublight engines engaged ([[33]])]]
* 2 x FTL engines and drive coils{{ref|ftl}}
* 6 x sublight engines
** 2 x Hull-mounted
** 4 x outrigger engine pods
* 40 x maneuvering engines (10 clusters of 4 apiece){{ref|zoic}}.

Despite their massive size, battlestars are extremely maneuverable and can dock with space stations such as the [[Ragnar Anchorage]] depot. Battlestars are not designed for atmospheric flight, although their hulls can manage a tenuous upper atmospheric storm like that surrounding the gas giant [[Ragnar]] ([[Miniseries]]). A battlestar's [[FTL]] systems are capable of very accurate Jumps, able to place them precisely in synchronous orbit above any point on a planet ([[Miniseries]]) and of placing them in the midst of an asteroid field ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]) or dense fleet of ships ([[Scattered]]), without risk of a devastating impact. However, they are grossly inferior to [[Cylon]] systems in range ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

===Endurance===
Battlestars are intended to operate for long periods without resupply. Their water purification capabilities alone are so efficient that, barring an emergency or unforeseen event, a battlestar can operate without re-tanking "for several years before replenishing" ([[Water]]). They also appear capable of undertaking large-scale repairs following battle damage ([[Miniseries]], [[Water]]), and may have small manufacturing/fabrication facilities on-board ([[Litmus]]). Vegetable stores and canned goods are kept in [[Wikipedia:Titanium|titanium]] lockers ([[Final Cut]]).

===Computer Systems===
The original battlestar vessels deliberately avoided the use of networked computer systems and wireless devices, as the [[Cylon]] enemy were adept at infiltrating and subverting such systems ([[Miniseries]]).

Although they do employ [[computers]] for such functions as [[FTL]] calculations, navigation, damage control and fire control ([[Scattered]]), these are not connected with each other. This design is intended to naturally quarantine individual systems in the event that one becomes compromised.

===Armament===
[[Image:Flakfield.jpg|thumb|right|Flak field from ''Galactica's'' large turrets ([[Scattered]])]]
[[Image:Bscap064.jpg|thumb|''Galactica's'' point defense turrets]]
*24 large gun turrets{{ref|flak}} (mounting 2 guns apiece)
These are mounted on the dorsal and ventral surfaces of the main hull and the ventral surface of the bow. The two guns on each turret can fire high-explosive (anti-Baseship) and flak (anti-Raiders) rounds in tandem at a rate of 2.23 seconds per round.

*Numerous{{ref|small}} smaller turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)
These are smaller two-gun turrets mounted on the flight pods and other surfaces. Each barrel fires explosive rounds in bursts, with a rate of fire of 200 rounds per turret per second (estimate based on one tracer per four rounds).

*Multiple nuclear warheads{{ref|nukes}}.

*Four squadrons of 20 "[[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]" air/space superiority fighters{{ref|vipers}}. Even the latest Mk. VII Vipers remain compatible with this class's launch and recovery facilities.

*Numerous{{ref|raptors}} "[[Raptor]]" reconnaissance vehicles.

 

===Crew===
''Galactica's'' crew complement prior to her scheduled decommissioning was approximately 2,800{{ref|crew}}. This figure may be higher for a fully staffed and operational battlestar.

===Life Support===
Approximately twelve oxygen recirculation units are mounted throughout the ship, which replenish oxygen as well as remove ("scrub") carbon dioxide from the air. These devices work continuously ([[Final Cut]]).

==Sources==
# {{note|nosource}}{{note_label|nosource|1|a}}{{note_label|nosource|1|b}} No source provided. Figures and comments which are unsourced are being considered for deletion, in compliance with the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|Citation Jihad]].
# {{note|pods}} Calculated based on elevations made available by Zoic.
# {{note|ftl}} '''Tigh:''' "Engineering/Combat. Please spin up FTL drives One and Two." ([[Mini-Series]])
# {{note|zoic}} Originally sourced to [[Zoic]] without explanation.
# {{note|flak}} These have been referred to as railguns by some fan sources, but there is substantial evidence to the contrary. See [[Railgun]] for more.
# {{note|small}} Unsourced figures have ranged from 252 to 512. According to the BSG Magazine, the number is 504.
#{{note|nukes}} As of the episode "[[Bastille Day]]", ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' was equipped with five nuclear warheads. This may be lower than the typical number, since ''Galactica'' was in the process of being decommissioned and had already had most of its ammunition removed. If this is the case, we must conclude that ''Galactica'' was unable to reload its supply of nuclear arms at [[Ragnar Anchorage]] (a sensible proposition, given the ease with which purported arms smuggler [[Leoben Conoy]] was able to gain access to the facility).
# {{note|vipers}}After the destruction of 20 Vipers during the Cylon Attack, ''Galactica'' was still able to muster a 40-Viper strong defensive screen by combining their remaining squadron of Mk. VII vipers with a full squadron of Mk. II vipers from a museum exhibit in the starboard flight pod. This suggests that ''Galactica'', with a single operational flight pod, was fielding two squadrons from it, and that when fully operational it could have fielded an additional two squadrons from the starboard pod as well.
# {{note|raptors}}At the time of the Cylon Attack, ''Galactica'' was apparently equipped with at least eight. See [[Galactica (RDM)#endnote_raptors|Galactica Raptor tally]] for a running count.
# {{note|crew}} See [[Galactica (RDM)#endnote_originalcrew|Galactica crew count]].

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]][[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category:Technology]] [[Category:Battlestars]]

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-03-18T02:25:51Z

David Templar: /* Armament Details */

I think the "fan estimate" of 6-8 Viper squads is off. According to http://galactica.tv/colonials/galacticatv.shtml, the Galactica had only 2 Viper squadrons. Since it was a museum ship, it's possible this is less than the usual complement.

-- John Reese

-------

Hi John,

Thanks for contributing! It's nice to see that the site's picking up now!

Actually, there are bits of information on the Galactica.tv (or Galactica2003.tv) website that are suspect, such as Tigh's first name being "Paul", as opposed to the canonized "Saul". We mainly use the episodes for canonical information; the Zoic, as the Colonial Archivist (Ernestborg9) can tell you, is mainly conjecture unless canonical info shows up to disprove it.

However, [[Battlestar|Battlestars]] in general carry 6-8 sqads; [[Galactica]] does carry two. (Or did, as I'm sure that the Galactica is now left with, at most, one full squadron of Mark IIs from the [[Mini-Series]], over the course of the series.)

- Joe

== Other Battlestars ==

Since the encounter of the Pegasus we have learned of another type of Battlestar,
will this page be edited in regard of this?

Another point is the appearence of the Galactica before the ship has been refitted
after the war. Is it clear that it had the appearance of the orginal show or is this
unclear?

Hardwing

: I've updated the page to reflect that this page deals primarily with the original battlestar class, of which ''Galactica'' is a member. I added a note on ''Pegasus'' and her class. There is a page for the [[Mercury-class]] battlestar, which could be edited and updated as this one as we get more technical information on that ship class. Note that only battlestars mentioned in an episode are canon; the rest technically may be made-up until then. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:00, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

=== Battlestar Article Structure ===

Since the term '''battlestar''' is a category of ship (analogous to space faring aircraft-carriers) shouldn't the content discussing battlestars in the RDM series, in overview terms, be moved to the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page, and there list the two classes we know of so far, the Mercury class and the "Galactica" class (i.e. "Original battlestar (RDM)" which we don't know the name of)..?

This would then have the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page discussing the overall details of the "''Galactica'' class" battlestar, like we are doing with the [[Mercury class battlestar]] page which is about the class, and the [[Pegasus (RDM)]] page which deals with the specific vessel.

So in essence the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page is the "root" page for the RDM entry on battlestars as a whole, then the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page about the "''Galactica'' class" battlestars in general, and the [[Galactica (RDM)]] page about the specifc vessel ''Galactica'':

==== Proposed restructuring ====

*[[Battlestar (RDM)]] (page about battlestars in general, i.e. "aircraft carriers")
**[[Original battlestar (RDM)]] (page about the original unnamed class as a whole)
***[[Galactica (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
**[[Mercury class battlestar]] (page about the Mercury class as a whole)
***[[Pegasus (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
***[[Mercury]] page (page about the specific vessel)

Thus leaving the [[Battlestar]] page as the top level disambiguation page between series. So everything within the RDM series about battlestars would fall within the outlined framework above beginning with the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page.

:We don't have much content to say about battlestars in general, and what we do would be redundant with [[Colonial Fleet]]. I agree that "other battlestar" references should probably be removed from this page, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 2 December 2005 (EST)

::Why would you want to remove reference to the other battlestars in this page? There are references made as to how there were 12 of the Original RDM class battlestars each representing one of the colonies (miniseries). Seems to me that the general overview information about the Original RDM class as a whole should be the content here, with listings of and links to the individual vessels of this class (''Galactica'' being one of course). — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:I think the Battlestar (RDM) link is a nice redirect link to Original Battlestar (RDM), but I'd avoid yet another disambig page. The show is focused on the events of ''Galactica''. It is very likely that ''Pegasus'' will disappear, one way or another, and that the modern battlestar will a footnote with no further additional data. Most readers will also be thinking of ''Galactica'' when they hear "battlestar" and not the lesser battlestars, almost all of which are mentioned-only and are very likely to remain that way, flashbacks notwithstanding. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:36, 2 December 2005 (EST)

:: I probably should not have used the term disambiguation page as it would be an actual content page (was actually thinking more of a root entry or overview entry), but rather a page devoted to general overview content on the nature of battlestars as capital ships, discussion of general concepts of flight operations, battlegroup structures, etc. With the links to the various classes of battlestars. While I understand that we may not get an abundance of canonical info on them from the show itself, I guess this begs the question of the extent to which the encyclopedia content is about "the show" and how much is about the Galactica universe within the show? I personally was hoping that this would be the platform and vehicle to collect and fill-in and expand on the later. Where things are structured and presented as a "NPOV" encyclopedia "from" the Galactica universe (or as sometimes referred to in gaming terms as a 'poetic map' or 'real map' that a player-character would have). Think of it as if we had an "actual" Hitchhiker's Guide (albeit "serious and accurate" not the apocryphal one portrayed in the books and movies, etc) "from" the Galactica universe which is then 'viewed' here (i.e. the entry content of the encyclopedia portions of this site) — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

::: I really think [[Colonial Fleet]] is perfectly adequate to that task. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:12, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::: Ok, now I am a bit confused. Becuase before (I just read now) you seemed to be advocating basically the same thing when you said:

::::"We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think Aircraft carrier, Yorktown class aircraft carrier, Nimitz class aircraft carrier. --Peter Farago 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)"

::::Which is why I was porposing shifting sections of overview content about battlestars and the basics of them, to the "root" battlestar (RDM) page (no longer a redriect)... then specifics about each class as the next level pages, then entries pages on each specific vessel. — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 21:06, 3 December 2005 (EST)

==Armament Details==

* ''With 512 Point-Defense Turrets, thats 1024 PD Guns, and from onscreen evidence, the Rounds Per Minute is atleast 90 or more. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Assuming a firing rate of 2 rounds per second, thats 120 rounds per minute, and from all turrets equates to 122,880 rounds per minute. 2048 rounds per second. Thats alot. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Considering a raider has been shown to be destroyed with around 4-10 direct hits, this means that should raiders enter the firing solution, would take only a few seconds to get blown up. If targetted by the PD turrets, less then a second. It would take a single turret 1 second to destroy a raider. That isn't accounting for maneuverability of the raider however. (fan estimation.)''
* ''Also, with 24 Rail gun turrets, thats, 48 rail gun , Barrels, if you will. Atleast 960 Rounds per minute (1 round per 3 seconds)''
** ''Onscreen evidence shows around 1 round firing per 2-3 seconds (please correct if wrong). Going with the 1 round-2 seconds, you get a single turret firing in a minute, 60 rounds. times that by 24 and you come to 1,440 rounds per minute.''
** ''Due the turrets being "rail guns", the rounds go much faster then the rounds fired from the PD turrets. This means that a single hit to a raider should destroy it due to the kenetic energy imparted to the raider. If this is true, then a battlestar, with accurate aiming, could take out 1,440 raiders in a minute. Thats like, double the estimated capacity of a basestar! Thats if every shot is a direct hit.''

This is interesting. Do you have a source for: the number of point-defense turrets, the number of rail guns, and the ''existance'' of rail guns (on-screen evidence indicates a three-rail design, which is inconsistant with the physics of a rail gun)? I don't think any of those things have been shown or mentioned on screen yet.

This line of inquiry might enable us to speculate on the Battlestar's total ammo store, if we can derive our estimates from good data. However, the concept of a Basestar sending two raider wings directly into Galactica's firing solution is a little silly. ''Galactica's'' firing solution has been used to provide cover for vipers and screen the ship from nukes, not to target enemy fightercraft directly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:55, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::''Aramaments - Defensive''
::* ''24 x primary railgun turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)
::* ''512 x point-defense turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)''

:according to the wiki entry.
:also pictures on there show the existance of the rail guns. 8 ontop. 8 on the under side of the 'crocodile head', and 8 on the underbelly.

:the Rate of Fire is all my doing however.

:can someone get me a short video of when the ship actually fires? cuz im actualy needing this much detail for something im doing (and using this wiki as a reference for).

:its guessing though i counted erm, 498 turrets myself.
:and worked out for that too , ive got those calculations somewhere.

:keeping in mind some of the personnel guns they have, that fire ate more-then-1-round-per-second (in some cases. for instance a gattling gun, while not seen onscreen they likely have one, what with theyre parralels with earth tech)..
:its more then realistic RoF for each turret no?

:asfor the rail gun RoF
:on second thought,
:ill need to re-examine the footage of the rail guns firing.
:theyre not said to be rail guns but theres a shot somewhere of 4 turrets , that resemble the rail guns, firing.
:ok ill stop now.

:thx for the, well, not going mad :)

:edit - oh sos forget this: --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 12:26, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::Be careful when citing unsourced fan-estimates in your calculations. I don't think those stats on turret count should even be there without a source. This article needs some serious cleanup in that regard. As for rate of fire, that can probably be estimated by frame-stepping through the relevant effects scenes in the miniseries. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:39, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Shall I upload my modified pics of the underbelly, top and side somewhere and link them in here for others to count? i can link to both the unmodified and the modified versions so people can compare each individual one. and asfor the frame-stepping, is there a scene of the galactica firing, upclose in the first 5 episodes? --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 14:04, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I think it would be better for you to upload it to your own web space if possible and then post links here, if that's possible. It would be interesting to see. Close-ups on Galactica's guns firing can be found in the mini-series, and I believe the footage was reused in "33". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:57, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I just wanted to point out that the Galactica has 20 heavy turrets, not 24. There are eight on each of the dorsal and ventral sides and four under the nose of the fore-section. You can see these on the Zoic high-res pictures of the Big G. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:53, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::I uploaded a picture to show what I mean. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:09, 28 September 2005 (EDT) [[Image:BSG_Ortho_Bottom.jpg|thumb]]
:::::::Excellent. Can the smaller guns also be seen on the elevations? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:29, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, especially on the flight pod. There are other batteries along the top and bottom of the fore-section split, the top of the central hull, below the flight pods, and along both upper and lower engine pods. These are just the ones I've found though. I'll upload the other ortho views now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:35, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::Actualy i can show you where the extra 4 come from!!! they are partially hidden . 2 on either side on the crocidile head. the hull plating left on either side of the underbelly, look there and youll see the other 4. *smiles like a know-it-all. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:19, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::::If you mean the ones visible in the ventral elevation, I think Talos was including those in his count. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:35, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::::those are fully visible. theres 4 at the very front and 2 either side of the underbelly partially visible. ill upload the pic when i get the change.
::::::::::::No need, I see them. Odd place for them, their range of motion must be quite constrained. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::: (okay all these colons are really making this page long vertically. go 3-4-5-3 etc lol. anyway. ive uploaded to imageshack the pic so if anyone wants to count them and compare like i did go ahead. erm its 6:45am and had 3 hours sleep so , i forgot, how do i link? lol. img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottomguns8ns.jpg (edit into a link for us. cheers) btw the pic is huge. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:44, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:Man, those large turrets are well hidden. I did not see them until now. You can also see the long line of small turrets along the edges of the main body. Look at the red markings on the bottom and go straight down until you reach the edge. You'll see them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:20, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

Changed "Each barrel fires non-explosive rounds in bursts" to explosive rounds. I mean, take a look at the screen cap from "Scattered" right in the same section and the data on Galactica's main batteries. Her large guns aren't capable of generating the dense flak barrier seen in the episode, their rate of fire and coverage are just too low. Besides, her main guns are generally used in direct fire roles. Even assuming Galactica's secondary batteries are only firing the same rounds as the Vipers (which they probably don't, Galactica's secondaries look considerably larger than Viper's guns), a 25-30mm round is plenty large to have a time-fuse. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 14:04, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I'd accept not mentioning whether they're incendiary rounds or not, but we have no positive evidence to that effect. I think that it's entirely plausible that the eight dorsal batteries, each firing two rounds in tandem every 2.5 seconds (for a total of 6.4 rounds per second) could produce a flack screen as dense as the one we saw in "Scattered". Remember, based on the explosion we saw in the miniseries, the burst radius of each flak round is very large. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:50, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Except large explosions weren't characteristic of the flak barrier in "Scattered". Watch the episode again, the barrier consists of large numbers of *little* explosions surrounding most of the ship. Further more, 6.4 rounds a second still wouldn't be enough to cover a ship the size of Galactica the way the flak barrier in the episode did, especially since Galactica's primary batteries have a limited arc (they can't depress all that low). --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 20:25, 17 March 2006 (CST)

==This Article Needs Work==

Who will join me in stripping this article of non-canon information and clearly labelling sources? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:07, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

: A challenge, but I like that. Perhaps we can move the Zoic information to a new page, as it is close to canon as we've got since they are part of the production process, although little of their info can be collaborated yet. We probably need to have this page moved to "Original Battlestar" or "Battlestar (RDM)" or somehow disamb it. Or, just offload the TOS info to another page. In a way I'm also big on placing the tech stats with the other technology pages to keep it easy to edit and read for both pages. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:28, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think [[Wikipedia:Aircraft carrier|Aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Yorktown class aircraft carrier|Yorktown class aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Nimitz class aircraft carrier|Nimitz class aircraft carrier]].

::Lastly, we must find an actual link to the Zoic source on all these details if we're going to keep them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:::That sounds good. I should be able to do the heavy work of moving data from the general "Battlestar" page to new pages for TOS and RDM battlestars and classes we know, and each of these pages will have links to their appropriate TOS or RDM named battlestar page. I may not strike the Zoic stuff yet, but at least by moving matters to separate pages, it will be much more manageable. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:28, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

The heavy work is done. This article has become a disamb page for all battlestar information. Unfortunately I did not properly move the [[Galactica]] page to [[Galactica (RDM)]], but created a new page instead. The content of the new page is OK, but the [[Galactica]] page should redirect to Galactica (RDM) to keep its history. There are several new pages that link from this page. The Pegasus (RDM) page deserved an article of its own and its page was moved, while Pegasus TOS from the original Battlestar page had only a few lines that were merged into [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. The new Galactica RDM class has [[Battlestar (RDM)]] for that general information. [[Mercury-class]] was moved to [[Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)]] to keep its history and keep article consistency. Galactica has a TOS and RDM page (note earlier screw up) as well as Battlestars of TOS. I hope this aids greatly in keeping mixed information from becoming a bother. This does create bad links throughout, but the primary ones to catch are [[Galactica]] (which should redirect to Galactica (RDM) unless on a TOS area), Pegasus (which should go to Pegasus (RDM) if new, or Battlestar (TOS) if not). Comments, criticizm and help are appreciated. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

:Okay, I just finished a bit of cleanup. I've moved "Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)" to "Mercury-Class Battlestar", since there's no need to disambiguate it from a TOS page of the same name that might ever exist. I've also corrected the namespace on "Galactica (Video Game 2003) to "Galactica (Video Game)", which is the namespace the other articles use. I've created a redirect from "Galactica" to "Galactica (RDM)", and moved the talk bage from "Talk:Battlestar" to "Talk:Battlestar (RDM)" (there were no TOS-specific comments there). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

::Thanks. The Mercury-class remove makes sense. Although I added RDM on those namespaces for consistency, your move simplifies the namespaces. There have been many games for BSG over the years, thus the use of the year just in case someone starts discussing other older games or new games are created. We can worry about that later. With the separations, we can see how some pages really could use more content, especially the TOS Galactica page. That's pretty sad, when you think of it. Perhaps another enterprising person can fill it will some general history. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:02, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

==Battletar Tally==

This page, like [[Mercury-class Battlestar]] is for a specific (albeit unnamed) class of battletar. A tally of the fleet's unclassified battlestars is not appropriate here, and should go in [[Colonial Fleet]].
:Makes sense. For lack of a better place to put it, I left it as a vestigial part from its former article. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:52, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

==Capitalization==

Battlestar isn't a proper noun, so it shouldn't be capitalized in article names. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:04, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:I've been wrestling with that. So, when using battlestar, it seems fine to capitalize it ''as'' an article when next to a battlestar name, as in "Battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica". But when discussing the ship it should be "battlestar" just as we would use "carrier" and not "Carrier" for aircraft carriers. I find the use of "the battlestar ''Galactica'' awkward: no definitive article required there when the ship name is next to it. An item for the Standards page? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

::Based on usage on the Wikipedia WWII articles, it would be either "the battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica" or just "''Galactica'' left for Caprica". The only time Battlestar should be capitalized is in the title of the show. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:50, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

:::So say they all. It shall be done. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:41, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

==Warheads==

In the [[Miniseries]], Geata reports that the chief says it will be three hours to load all the warheads. I think this establishes that Galactica was, in fact, loading nukes from Ragnar, and that the five it departed the system with (c.f. Bastille Day) were all it could carry. The number does seem low to me, but what other sort of warhead would they be talking about? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:16, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:Maybe conventional missile warheads and bombs for the Vipers, possibly conventional warheads for Galactica, and warheads for the shells fired by the main cannons. It shouldn't take three hours to load five warheads, even nukes. It's possible that Ragnar only had five warheads. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:05, 30 December 2005 (EST)
::The main cannons would probably fire shells, not warheads, and we haven't seen any non-nuclear warheads used by the Colonials so far. I agree that it's possible Ragnar's stores were the limiting factor, though, rather than ''Galactica's'' capacity. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 30 December 2005 (EST)

==Article Title==
Something Memory Alpha does for articles on unnamed ship classes is refer to them as "___ type" rather than "___ class", where the article would be named after the most prominent ship of the class rather than the (unknown) lead ship. You can see this at:
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aeon type|Aeon type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Artic One type|Artic One type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aurora type|Aurora type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Bok'Nor type|Bok'Nor type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Kyr type|D'Kyr type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Vahl type|D'Vahl type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Intrepid type|Intrepid type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Raven type|Raven type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:SD-103 type|SD-103 type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:USS Enterprise-J type|USS Enterprise-J type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:XCV type|XCV type]]
What do our military experts think of this sort of nomenclature? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:34, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:That sounds good, the only question is: Is it battlestar Galactica-type, or Galactica-type battlestar? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:55, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::I'd go for "Galactica type battlestar" to match "Mercury class battlestar", personally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:00, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:::I tend to agree. "Original battlestar" as a title is both ambiguous (is this page about the first battlestar ever built?) and clumsy. Galactica-type Battlestar should be the new title, and the move should be done sooner rather than later. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::::I concur, and we should make similar it to what we have as shown: "Galactica type battlestar" (no hyphens). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:40, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Bow batteries ==
There's a new line about bow batteries, but doesn't that apply to the Mercury-class (''Pegasus'') and not the Galactica type battlestar? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:20, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes. I'm removing it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:38, 20 February 2006 (EST)
::I was in the middle of doing that and got an edit conflict. Oh well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:40, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== ''Where'' exactly did this quote come from? ==

I removed the following quote from this page, because while it attributes who said the quote, we don't have a ''source'' for the quote (i.e. where it came from).

: I was asking Gary Hutzel to give me the technical specs just last week, actually. I think he described the flight pods [hangar decks] as being about four football fields in length." (source: Robert Falconer)

Please provide a source for the quote (whether it be an interview, bulletin board post, etc.) ASAP. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Capacity of Galactica's Hangers==
I'd like to point something out about the fighter carring capabilities of battlestars. Apparently all fighters on battlestars are carried in the 2 flight pods(one flight pod in Galactica's case). Each flight pod as stated in the Galactica Type Battlestar "is almost twice the length of a Nimitz class carrier, is some 150ft (46m) wider and is approximately as tall as a Nimitz class carrier measured from the waterline to the top of the carrier's communications and ELINT tower." Now assuming that the hangar deck on the Nimitz is as long as the flight deck (which is not),considering that the lower level of the flight pod of the Galactica is the hangar for that flight pod and not taking in to account that the flight pod is wider then the Nimitz hull at the level of the hangar deck, the surface of the hangar deck in a flight pod is twice that of a Nimitz class carrier. Galactica has at last 4 times the hangar space of the Nimitz. The Nimitza can carrie 85 aircraft, 50 of which ar fighters. So I don't know how the person who wrote this article came up with the figure of 80 Vipers carried in a fully armed battlestar,since this number would't even fill a quarter of the hangar space.What did they do with the rest of the hangar, play football maybe, or baseball? Take in to acoount that a Viper is about 8 times smaller in volume than an F-14, having half the lenght,wingspan and height, and a raptor just about as big. A Galactica type battlestar would be able to carry at least 400 Vipers and Raptors.
:I was looking at the orthos of Big-G a second ago and I think that the hanger isn't a very wide structure. The elevator that 2276NC lands on in the Mini is in the center of the hanger and is shown to be significantly off-center from the flight deck. The launch tubes also seem to take up alot of the flight pod. Even the Nimitz class can carry more aircraft than they do. Plus, Galactica has to carry Raptors, a half dozen or so, so it's not just Vipers. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::My thinking is like this picture. The box I drew extends across all the launch tubes visible in the side view, plus a little in the rear for maintenance and storage. This would protect the hanger from damage, like after the nuke in the Mini. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:12, 15 March 2006 (CST)
[[Image:Hanger.JPG|thumb|Hanger example]]

:::As far as "what else is all the hanger space used for", we've seen ships as large as Colonial One docking inside the flight pods. (Although Colonial One isn't that large...) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:02, 15 March 2006 (CST)

The area you drew Talos is still larger the the hangar of the Nimitz. Look at the picture that compares the Nimitz to the Galactica, and take in to accout that the hangar deck has a smaller width then the then the flight deck. The rectangle that you drew is about the width of the hanagar on a Nimitz and is still longer. And you should take in to account that a Viper Mk VII according to the page on this site is 9.8643 m long has a wingspan of 5.61 m and is 2.9508 m high (in flight, without landing gear.) the Naval fighter equivalent woould be the F-18 C/D(I'm not considering the larger E/F variant) which is has an overall length of 17,07, an width of 8.38 m wings folded and a height of 4,66m. The F-18 C/D is almost twice as long as wide and as tall as a Viper. A Nimtz class carrier carries 50 F-18 (both the C/D variant and the larger E/F variant which has replaced the F-14 in all but 2 naval squadrons). A Galactica type should be able to carrie at least 90 Vipers and 35 oher suport aircraft larger then the Raptor (the 35 suport aircraft carried buy the Nimitz are all larger then the Raptor) in a single flight pod.--[[User:DArhengel|DArhengel]] 12:37, 16 March 2006 (CST)
:I went back to the DVDs and it appears that they only store Vipers along one side of the hanger, with most of the other wall being launch tubes. In the mini, there is a nice shot down the hanger after Apollo lands. A Mk VII is parked in a niche and going by that, it looks like the hanger is ~20 meters wide (useable space, not including supports, etc). The hanger appears to be very long but narrow which would make the best use of the space considering the size of the craft and the need for launch tubes and elevators (I believe the elevators are between the banks of launch tubes). I'll go figure out the length and update the example I showed above. Thanks for the stimulating conversation, by the way, it's a fun topic for me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:09, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Viper (TRS)

2006-03-17T21:55:31Z

David Templar: /* Armaments */

:''This article discusses the two Viper-class fighters seen in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. For information on the Viper used in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] and in [[Galactica 1980]], see [[Viper (TOS)]] or [[Viper (1980)]] .''

[[Image:Bsg-viper-1.jpg|thumb|Viper Mk. II (credit: Gabriel C. Koerner)]]
[[Image:BSG-Mark-VII.jpg|thumb|Viper Mk. VII (credit: Zoic Studios)]]

The '''Viper''' is the [[Colonial Defense Force]]'s primary space superiority fighter / attack craft. Capable of atmospheric flight, the Viper is a single-seat craft mounting two kinetic energy weapons ([[KEW]]s), as well as having hardpoints beneath the wings for mounting missiles, munitions pods and other ordnance ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The Viper was originally introduced into Colonial service shortly before the outbreak of the [[Cylon War]]. However, it was the Mark II variant, designed specifically for use with the new Colonial [[Original battlestar (RDM)|battlestars]] that is best remembered.

The Mark II served with distinction throughout the Cylon War, proving a capable fighting vehicle that won reknown across the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] and is regarded as one of the reasons the Colonials did not suffer defeat at the hands of the Cylons.

The Mark II remained in service after the end of the war, but was subsequently superceded by newer models. At the time of the renewed Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies, the Mark VII was the front-line variant of the Viper design, retaining the Mark II general layout but using fully networked systems providing superior battle management and fight information for the pilot.

Ironically, it was the incorporation of the new integrated systems that prevented the majority of Mark VII's from being effective during the Cylon attack: as with the majority of Colonial Fleet, the Mark VII suffer fatal computer system failures on contact with Cylon forces. Thanks to a [[Number Six|Cylon agent's]] relationship with Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]], scientist and programmer of the navigation software project, the [[CNP|navigational software]] in use onboard the majority of Colonial Fleet vessels contained backdoors that allow the Cylons to infiltrate a vessel's network by [[wireless]] signals and disable its power systems. While the problem could be overcome by removing the navigational upgrade compromised by the Cylons, this information is not discovered in time to be of major benefit to the surprised and hard-pressed Colonial forces.

== Atmospheric Operations ==
The Viper is designed for atmospheric as well as space-based operations. However, Vipers consume more fuel during atmospheric operations than in the vacuum of space: once in an atmosphere, the engines must run continuously to retain airflow over the wing lifting surfaces. Depending on the composition of the atmosphere itself, this can place severe strain on the Viper's engines ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

Due to their wing configuration, Vipers may also suffer from poor handling at low speeds within an atmosphere.

== Life Support ==
Viper cockpits are pressurised and heated, but they are flown with the pilot wearing a [[flight suit]] that is capable of providing full life support should ejection be required ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). The life support systems are built-in to the back of the pilot's seat itself, together with the flight harness. Following an ejection, the back of the seat separates automatically, effectively becoming a backpack for the pilot ([[Act of Contrition]]).

Should ejection take place within an atmosphere, the life support backpack / seat back also incorporates a parachute.

== Technical Specifications ==

=== Dimensions ===
Mark II
*Length: 8.4082 m
*Wingspan: 4.7168 m
*Height: 2.7247 m (in flight, without landing gear. Landing gear adds approximately 0.5m.)

Mark VII
*Length: 9.8643 m
*Wingspan: 5.61 m
*Height: 2.9508 m (in flight, without landing gear.){{ref|companion}}

=== Propulsion ===
*Mark II: 1x Voram VM2-D15 upper turbothrust engine, 2x Voram VM3-D22 turbothrust engines; 2x reverse thrust motors; [[RCS]] points
*Mark VII: 3x turbothrust engines mounted aft; [[RCS]] points; angular exhaust nozzle design suggest possible thrust-vectoring.

=== Armaments ===
*Mark II: 2x MEC-A6 30mm Thraxon forward-firing kinetic energy weapons ([[KEW]]) mounted in the wing roots with 800 round magazine; dorsal storage bay for 8x HD-70 Lightning Javelin missiles (optional 50 megaton nuclear warhead){{ref|armaments}}
*Mark VII: 3x forward-firing kinetic energy weapons (KEW); 2 mounted towards the outboard sections of the wings; 1 mounted in the vertical stabiliser
*Both: Weapon hardpoints for mounting missiles / munitions pods, etc. under the wings; compatible gun ammunition, although Mk VII seems to have a higher rate of fire

=== Instruments ===
*Mark II: [[Radio Magnetic Indicator]]
*Mark II: [[Torque Percent Gauge]]
*Mark II: [[Attitude Indicator]]
*Mark II: [[Altimeter]]
*Mark II and VII: [[Computers#Colonial Avionics|Cockpit Avionics]]

=== Crew ===
*Pilot in Terrell ES 24C ejection seat. {{ref_label|companion|2|a}}

=== Performance ===

*Mark II: Can rotate 180 degrees vertically in .35 seconds

== Notes ==
Since ''Galactica'' only had 40 Viper Mark II's aboard, they needed as many fighters as possible, thus the remaining Mark VII's were refitted and stripped of their advanced computer systems. However, since this is not how the Mark VII was designed, it makes the craft increasingly difficult to handle and can only be flown by the most experienced pilots such as [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]. ''Galactica'' has roughly 6-8 Mark VII's on board after the Cylon attack ("[[Scattered]]", "Flight of the Phoenix"). (source: [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/|official Scifi.com series website])

== Layout ==
[[Image:Bsg-viper-2.jpg|thumb|right|Viper Mk. II (credit: Gabriel C. Koerner)]]
The Viper is a long, sleek vehicle that can be split into two parts, fore and aft.

*Fore section: comprises the nose back to the cockpit. This contains the forward RCS systems for manoeuvring the craft; the forward landing gear; the main [[avionics]] and sensor packages, plus the single-seat cockpit itself
*Stern section: comprises the main engines, fuel tanks, wings and vertial stabiliser. The wings themselves contain the kinetic energy weapons ("guns") and their munitions storage and feeds. Hardpoints beneath the wings allow missiles, munitions pods and other items to be rack-mounted ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]). The wings roots contain the main landing gear. This section of a Viper also contains a number of RCS manoeuvring packs.

The stern section of a Viper is distinctive because of the offset "intakes" mounted just behind the cockpit. The port / starboard "intake" nacelles incorporate small but powerful reverse thrust engines that can quickly counter a Viper's forward momentum in an emergency ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

== Sources ==
#{{note|dimensions}}Dimensions provided by [http://www.leestringer.com/ Lee Stringer], one of the VFX Animators of the Mini-Series. These are for the CGI models, which are based on but not identical to the the fullsize props. Source: [http://www.starshipbuilder.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000012.html Starshipbuilder.com forums]
#{{note|companion}}{{note_label|companion|2|a}}Armaments listings and Ejector seat details from David Bassom's Battlestar Galactica Official Companion.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Colonial Fleet (TRS)/old

2006-03-17T21:49:16Z

David Templar: /* Fleet Status */

The '''Colonial Fleet''' is the primary armed service branch under the jurisdiction of the [[Ministry of Defense]].

The Colonial Fleet operates in tandem with another branch of the armed services, the [[Colonial Marine Corps]]. The Colonial Fleet also has a Reserve branch, of which [[Lee Adama]] was a member ([[Final Cut]]).

The Fleet was based at [[Picon Fleet Headquarters]] and was under the leadership of Admiral [[Nagala]] at the time of the [[Cylon Holocaust]]. Other identified Fleet installations included the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]], [[Ragnar Anchorage]], and the [[Armistice Station]].

==Fleet Status==
At the time of the Cylon holocaust, the Colonial Fleet included approximately 120 battlestars (with estimated around 10,000 [[Vipers]], assuming 80 Vipers embarked per [[battlestar]] plus orbital defence squadrons, see [[Battlestar]]) as well as hundreds of [[Raptors]]. The Colonial Fleet was regarded by the Cylons to be a decisively superior force in a straight-up fight, which is why they resorted to sabotaging Colonial defences electronically ("[[Downloaded]]").

:''In the [[Miniseries]], [[William Adama]] tells Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] when she's released from the brig "We lost 30 battlestars in the opening attack". She responds, "That's a quarter of the fleet." This establishes that there were approximately 120 active battlestars at the beginning of the Miniseries.''

The existence of [[Battlestar Group]]s strongly suggests that there were other military vessels in support roles, akin to an [[Wikipedia:aircraft carrier battle group|aircraft carrier battle group]].

As noted on the official [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ SciFi Channel Battlestar Galactica web site], the Colonial Fleet also included modified [[Space Park]] vessels (although the single Space Park liner shown in ''Galactica's'' [[The Fleet (RDM)|Rag-tag Fleet]] is very likely a civilian liner).

Battlestars mentioned destroyed in the Cylon Attack included the ''[[Triton]]'', ''[[Solaria]]'', ''[[Columbia]]'', and ''[[Atlantia]]'' (commanded by Admiral [[Nagala]]). According to Admiral [[Helena Cain]], two unnamed battlestars and three other ships (type unknown, but presumed military vessels) were destroyed in the [[Fall of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]].

[[Pegasus (episode)|Currently]], the only two Colonial Fleet capital warships known to have survived the attack are the battlestars ''[[Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', which guard a [[The Fleet (RDM)|fleet of civilian ships]].

==Ships of the Colonial Fleet==
* [[Galactica type battlestar]]
* [[Mercury class battlestar]]
* [[Raptor]]
* [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]

[[Category:RDM]][[Category:A to Z]][[Category:Colonial Military]]

[[es:Flota Colonial]]

Raptor

2006-03-17T21:28:10Z

David Templar: /* Armament */

== Overview ==

[[Image:Raptor-1.jpg|thumb|Colonial Raptor (credit: Sky One)]]

The '''Raptor''' is a multi-role vehicle used by the [[Colonial Defense Force]]. It is generally operated by a crew of two, is capable of atmospheric flight and is also equipped with a short-range [[FTL|Jump]] engine, allowing it to make short faster-than-light hops.

The Raptor is designed to fulfill a number of roles, the primary being that of reconnaissance / scout operations. Additionally, the Raptor can also undertake the following roles:
*Airborne Warning & Control and Electronic Counter-Measures platform supporting [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] operations ([[Mini-Series]], [[33]])
*Marine assault carrier ("[[Bastille Day]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]")
*Ambulance / evac vehicle ([[Mini-Series]])
*General purpose transport ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", "[[Home, Part II]]")

As an [[ECM]] platform, the Raptor contains a full suite of electronic countermeasure and monitoring tools, enabling it to:
*Jam transmissions from other spacecraft ([[Mini-Series]], [[33]])
*Scramble control signals used by guided weapons ([[Mini-Series]])
*Undertake IFF operations for Viper squadrons ([[Mini-Series]])

In the role of a scout, the Raptor can operate independently of, or in concert with, other Raptors and Vipers ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]) and:

*Undertake short and medium-range scans to detect radio, heat or other signatures from other vessels
*Scan planetary surfaces for signs of life, energy output, or to assess mineral or other content / location ([[Water]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
*Scout ahead of its parent warship, scouting star systems, etc., to look for any signs of hostile intent, etc., prior to the parent ship jumping-in ([[Mini-Series]])
*Undertake search & rescue operations.

As a transport vehicle, a Raptor is capable of carrying around 8-10 adults in addition to the 2-person crew. As a marine assault vehicle, it can carry a squad of some eight marines plus their equipment ([[Bastille Day]]).

Due to its size, the Raptor is not launched via a battlerstar's launch tube; instead it is launched from the forward end of a flight pod.

Typically, a battlestar operates with a single squadron of 8-10 Raptors: 1 Raptor assigned to each operational Viper squadron aboard the battlestar, and potentially two "reserve" Raptors.

=== Atmospheric Operations ===
The Raptor is designed for atmospheric as well as space-based operations. However, a critical element to atmospheric operations is that to remain airborne is fuel: once in an atmosphere, the engines must be run constantly to retain lift surfaces. Depending on the composition of the atmosphere itself, this can place severe strain on the Raptor's engines ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

Due to their overall configuration and bulk, Raptors may also suffer from poor handling at low speeds, and rely heavily on directed thrust to remain airborne.

=== FTL Operations ===

A Raptor seems to be able to make at least 10, and probably at least 20 [[FTL]] jumps before refueling ([[Lay_Down_Your_Burdens%2C_Part_I]]). It may, however, have been carrying more than a normal amount of fuel for that mission.

=== Life Support ===
The main flight deck / cabin of a Raptor is fully pressurised. However, crews operate in [[flight suit]]s and helmets to help protect them against any hull breach ([[Mini-Series]]). The cabin can also be depressurized and used in space rescue operations ("[[You Can't Go Home Again]]").

== Technical Specifications ==

[[Image:Raptor-ZOIC.jpg|thumb|Colonial Raptor ©Universal (credit: Zoic Studios)]]

=== Dimensions ===
*Length: (approx) 28ft
*Beam: (approx) 18.34ft (wingtip to wingtip)
*Height: (approx): 9.5ft

*Mass: 50 tons ([[Mini-Series]])

=== Propulsion ===
*2x sublight engines mounted aft
*1x small-scale [[FTL]] system
*[[RCS]] points

=== Armament ===
*Offensive: Normally unarmed as Raptors make for a poor general-purpose fighter. Can be equipped with bombs ("[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]") or rockets/missiles perhaps similar to those used on Vipers ("[[Fragged]]")
*Defensive: [[Swallow|Decoy drones]], [[Communication drone|communication drones]] and flares; reduced electronic signature to avoid detection

=== Crew ===
*Pilot
*[[ECO]]

== Layout ==

The Raptor is a boxey vehicle built for purpose, not style. The forward section of the vehicle contains the flight deck, with side-by-side seats for the pilot and ECO (who occupies the rear section of the vehicle during normal operations). This opens into the main body of the vehicle, which contains bulkhead-mounted racks of electronics equipment and sensors. A large canopy provides good forward and side visibility for the crew, which is no doubt of considerable benefit during atmospheric flight. A section of this canopy can be jettisoned in an emergency, to allow the crew to eject using the flight deck seats. Access is gained via a large hydraulic door mounted on the port side of the vehicle provides access to the vehicle. In addition, a floor-mounted hatchway provides a further point of egress. This is linked to a docking skirt that can be extended from the underside of a Raptor, enabling it to dock with other vessels and the crew achieve access (e.g. in the case of an assault, allowing [[marines]] to force an entry into a hostile vessel ([[Bastille Day]])).

Aft of the pressurised flight deck and crew area is the jump system and main sublight engines. Winglets either side of the hull help to give stability during atmospheric manoeuvres and have landing thrusters mounted under them, which may use vectored thrust from the main sublight engines.

== Notes ==
*The Raptor is the vehicle piloted by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Lt. Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]]
*The design of the Raptor was based on the US Army's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AH-64_Apache Apache helicopter]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Raptor

2006-03-17T21:22:42Z

David Templar: /* Overview */

== Overview ==

[[Image:Raptor-1.jpg|thumb|Colonial Raptor (credit: Sky One)]]

The '''Raptor''' is a multi-role vehicle used by the [[Colonial Defense Force]]. It is generally operated by a crew of two, is capable of atmospheric flight and is also equipped with a short-range [[FTL|Jump]] engine, allowing it to make short faster-than-light hops.

The Raptor is designed to fulfill a number of roles, the primary being that of reconnaissance / scout operations. Additionally, the Raptor can also undertake the following roles:
*Airborne Warning & Control and Electronic Counter-Measures platform supporting [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] operations ([[Mini-Series]], [[33]])
*Marine assault carrier ("[[Bastille Day]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]")
*Ambulance / evac vehicle ([[Mini-Series]])
*General purpose transport ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", "[[Home, Part II]]")

As an [[ECM]] platform, the Raptor contains a full suite of electronic countermeasure and monitoring tools, enabling it to:
*Jam transmissions from other spacecraft ([[Mini-Series]], [[33]])
*Scramble control signals used by guided weapons ([[Mini-Series]])
*Undertake IFF operations for Viper squadrons ([[Mini-Series]])

In the role of a scout, the Raptor can operate independently of, or in concert with, other Raptors and Vipers ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]) and:

*Undertake short and medium-range scans to detect radio, heat or other signatures from other vessels
*Scan planetary surfaces for signs of life, energy output, or to assess mineral or other content / location ([[Water]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
*Scout ahead of its parent warship, scouting star systems, etc., to look for any signs of hostile intent, etc., prior to the parent ship jumping-in ([[Mini-Series]])
*Undertake search & rescue operations.

As a transport vehicle, a Raptor is capable of carrying around 8-10 adults in addition to the 2-person crew. As a marine assault vehicle, it can carry a squad of some eight marines plus their equipment ([[Bastille Day]]).

Due to its size, the Raptor is not launched via a battlerstar's launch tube; instead it is launched from the forward end of a flight pod.

Typically, a battlestar operates with a single squadron of 8-10 Raptors: 1 Raptor assigned to each operational Viper squadron aboard the battlestar, and potentially two "reserve" Raptors.

=== Atmospheric Operations ===
The Raptor is designed for atmospheric as well as space-based operations. However, a critical element to atmospheric operations is that to remain airborne is fuel: once in an atmosphere, the engines must be run constantly to retain lift surfaces. Depending on the composition of the atmosphere itself, this can place severe strain on the Raptor's engines ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

Due to their overall configuration and bulk, Raptors may also suffer from poor handling at low speeds, and rely heavily on directed thrust to remain airborne.

=== FTL Operations ===

A Raptor seems to be able to make at least 10, and probably at least 20 [[FTL]] jumps before refueling ([[Lay_Down_Your_Burdens%2C_Part_I]]). It may, however, have been carrying more than a normal amount of fuel for that mission.

=== Life Support ===
The main flight deck / cabin of a Raptor is fully pressurised. However, crews operate in [[flight suit]]s and helmets to help protect them against any hull breach ([[Mini-Series]]). The cabin can also be depressurized and used in space rescue operations ("[[You Can't Go Home Again]]").

== Technical Specifications ==

[[Image:Raptor-ZOIC.jpg|thumb|Colonial Raptor ©Universal (credit: Zoic Studios)]]

=== Dimensions ===
*Length: (approx) 28ft
*Beam: (approx) 18.34ft (wingtip to wingtip)
*Height: (approx): 9.5ft

*Mass: 50 tons ([[Mini-Series]])

=== Propulsion ===
*2x sublight engines mounted aft
*1x small-scale [[FTL]] system
*[[RCS]] points

=== Armament ===
*Offensive: Normally unarmed as Raptors make for a poor general-purpose fighter. Can be equipped with missiles perhaps similar to those used on Vipers ([[Fragged]])
*Defensive: [[Swallow|Decoy drones]], [[Communication drone|communication drones]] and flares; reduced electronic signature to avoid detection

=== Crew ===
*Pilot
*[[ECO]]

== Layout ==

The Raptor is a boxey vehicle built for purpose, not style. The forward section of the vehicle contains the flight deck, with side-by-side seats for the pilot and ECO (who occupies the rear section of the vehicle during normal operations). This opens into the main body of the vehicle, which contains bulkhead-mounted racks of electronics equipment and sensors. A large canopy provides good forward and side visibility for the crew, which is no doubt of considerable benefit during atmospheric flight. A section of this canopy can be jettisoned in an emergency, to allow the crew to eject using the flight deck seats. Access is gained via a large hydraulic door mounted on the port side of the vehicle provides access to the vehicle. In addition, a floor-mounted hatchway provides a further point of egress. This is linked to a docking skirt that can be extended from the underside of a Raptor, enabling it to dock with other vessels and the crew achieve access (e.g. in the case of an assault, allowing [[marines]] to force an entry into a hostile vessel ([[Bastille Day]])).

Aft of the pressurised flight deck and crew area is the jump system and main sublight engines. Winglets either side of the hull help to give stability during atmospheric manoeuvres and have landing thrusters mounted under them, which may use vectored thrust from the main sublight engines.

== Notes ==
*The Raptor is the vehicle piloted by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Lt. Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]]
*The design of the Raptor was based on the US Army's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AH-64_Apache Apache helicopter]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Battlestar Galactica (TRS)/Archive 1

2006-03-17T21:19:36Z

David Templar: /* Caseless Ammo? */

I hear that NBC may be trying to make a spinoff of BSG, focused on either the Caprica resistance or on the crew of the Celestra research vessel (a third option of following the Pegasus crew was abandoned). Apparently, NBC is jealous of SciFi, and of RDM's unwillingness to bring BSG over to NBC. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:02, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

: Well, I guess I've heard of more short-sighted things... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:28, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

: That kinda...doesn't make sense. They should just be happy that they get the money from the channel that they OWN. -- [[user:yenguyen|YeNguyen]] 12:42, 24 Jul 2005 (EST)

::I think their reasoning is that if it were on NBC as opposed to SciFi, they'd get more viewers and thus more money - and if they had a show on each, then there'd be even more money than that. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:13, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:::I've got the theme songs of the first and second season, but don't know how to convert them into an .ogg file, can someone help? --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

::::I'm afraid that we aren't going to be able to use them, anyway. For one, we need to have permission to use them anyway; as of right now, both themes are available on the season 1 soundtrack, and were we to post them, we'd probably get in trouble for copyright infringement. Something that I seriously do not want to occur. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:50, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::Ah alright, not a problem. --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

== sop vs. SOP ==

In the discussion of the doctor's smoking habit. RDM calls this "my one sop to the idea of an idealized society". Someone well-intentioned added the definition "[Standard Operating Procedure]" after "sop", probably after looking it up on an online dictionary. Unfortunately, this is incorrect. "sop" in this case does not refer to the abbreviation SOP, but to the word "sop: noun, 1. A piece of food soaked or dipped in a liquid. 2a. Something yielded to placate or soothe. b. A bribe."

I simply removed the bracketed addition.--[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 15:19, 23 December 2005 (EST)

: You're right, but the funny part is, the second, "incorrect" context does actually "fit" as well. :) If you read it as ''"... my one Standard Operating Procedure to the idea..."'' you can hear the sarcasm. A little disjointed, but still. But yes, you are right, it should be "sop". -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 14:46, 16 February 2006 (EST)

== Caseless Ammo? ==
From the official statements: "[The bullets] are some sort of caseless ammunition." Hmmm. That would make [[Flight of the Phoenix|sabotaging the casing]] a little bit more difficult then, wouldn't it? Bah. This is why writers hate being pinned down by technical details. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:45, 16 February 2006 (EST)

Haha, this after showing us cased ammo for two seasons? They could've still had ammo sabotage with caseless ammo, though, it would have been spiking the propellant shroud of the shell. 10 minutes of research would've been enough to come up with that, if they'd bothered (I assume writers are at bare minimum as creative as myself ;) ). I think if they were too lazy to make up caseless round props for the episode, they shouldn't try to dance their way around what they chose to show. Maybe someone should drop RDM an email about something called "combustable casing". Since we don't see Vipers ejecting spent shells during gun operation, that's probably the best solution. Either that or they hold on to the empty shells, not really a good thing considering that means they'd hold on to a lot of heat from firing the guns and heat disappation is a pain in space. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 15:19, 17 March 2006 (CST)

== Just so everyone knows.... ==

I am heavily working on the content of the page to format it with the Portal pages. Please do not revert my changes. Thank you!

Mercury class battlestar

2006-03-17T21:03:14Z

David Templar:

[[Image:BSPegasus.jpg|thumb|Mercury-Class Battlestar - Image 1]]
[[Image:Pegasus01.jpg|thumb|Mercury-Class Battlestar - Image 2]]
[[Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_1a.jpg|thumb|Mercury-Class Battlestar - Image 3]]
[[Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_3a.jpg|thumb|Mercury-Class Battlestar - Image 4]]
[[Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_5a.jpg|thumb|Mercury-Class Battlestar - Image 5]]
[[Image:Pegasus-Comparison.png|thumb|right|Original series/''Mercury'' class comparison]]

The '''''Mercury'' class''' battlestar is an advanced warship introduced into the [[Colonial Fleet]] sometime after the First [[Cylon War]]. For the unnamed original class, to which ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' belongs, see [[Original Battlestar (RDM)]].

==Overview==

Following the end of the [[Cylon War]], the original battlestars remained in service, and other battlestars were built. Their numbers steadily increased to a grand total of 120 ships in the Colonial Fleet. New models employed technologies, such as networked computers, which had been prohibited during the war ([[Mini-Series]]). A ''Mercury''-class battlestar therefore sports several features not found aboard ''Galactica'' such as automated sliding doorways and basic computer recognition stations at vital areas. At the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], a ''Mercury''-class battlestar was a top-of-the-line craft.

The physical appearance of the ''Mercury''-class is different than that of the original battlestar. The "neck" section is smaller, and the ''Mercury''-class is equipped with eight sublight engine pods, compared the older class's four. These are also more "boxy" in appearance than those of the original. The flight pods also appear to have two entrances each, above and below the midline. Combined with computer assisted landing, this gives the Mercury a higher rate of Viper recovery than the [[Galactica]]. Unlike ''Galactica'', ''Pegasus'' appears to have a full armor "skin", but in ''Galactica's'' case this may have been deliberately removed prior to its decommissioning.

The gun batteries on the Mercury are arranged very differently from the Galactica's. Where as Galactica's large guns are clustered along her top side, with secondary batteries concentrated along the flight pods, the Mercury's guns are found all over the ship "[[The Captain's Hand]]". The greatest concentration of large turrets are found along the side of the ship, within the valley created by the upper and lower halves of the hull, including the flight pods. Four are mounted on the underside of the upper hull on the ship's bow, below which sits four non-turreted large guns; these form the main forward batteries. Two more turrets are mounted on the front and back of each flight pod. The Mercury's secondary guns are distributed all over the ship and do not clearly emerge from the hull like Galactica's.

Based on figures from the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", the standard crew complement of a Mercury-class battlestar is in excess of 2,500.

Also, in addition to having better armament and weapons than the [[Galactica]] the Mercury Class Battlestar is known to known to have the production means to build new Vipers from basic resources ([[Scar]]).

== Known ''Mercury''-class Battlestars ==
*Battlestar ''[[Mercury]]'' (for which it is presumed the class is named)
*Battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''

== Notes ==
The shape of the ''Mercury''-class resembles the [[TOS|original series]] [[battlestar (TOS)|battlestar]] more than the re-imagined ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. Its engine pods number eight, compared to the ''Galactica'''s six, and appear more directly integrated with its rear section, and its flight pods share the original's angular shape.

The visual effects artist of the re-imagined ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', Jose A. Perez, has commented that, "The new design was somewhat of a cross between the look of the [[TOS|old class]] [[battlestar (TOS)|battlestars]], and yet with elements of the [[Galactica (RDM)|new one]]. Aside from that, it has mostly hull plating (to absorb more damage) , as opposed to the ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' which has more ribbing."
Mr. Perez also commented that, "The harder edges [ of the [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus'']] ] were intentional as well, to match the interior style of the sets more." {{source}}

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]] [[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category:Technology]] [[Category:Battlestars|*]]

[[es:Battlestar clase Mercury]]

Talk:Viper (TRS)/Archive 1

2006-03-17T20:32:44Z

David Templar: /* Changes */

==Mk. VII Vipers FTL Capable?==
Before I say anything, I'd like to point out that I'm speculating all of this. I have heard nowhere else that the Mk. VII's have FTL drives.

I think that the Mk. VII's have installed jump engines. My reasoning is as follows:
The last time we saw a Viper squadron that was composed entirley of Mk. VII's was Ripper's squadron during the miniseries. Before they were destroyed, they were being reassigned to Caprican locan defense squadron. Galactica was not really close to Caprica when this mission started, the distance required to travel would be best done with a FTL jump.
The next time we see Mk. VII's used extensivley is on Pegasus. Stinger orders two Mk. VII's and a Raptor - which we know are jump capable - on the recon mission. The target is too far away to be reached realistically at sublight speeds. Stinger may be uncreative and lacking initiave, but hes not stupid, and would not design a mission with such an obvious flaw. The Mk. VII's must have FTL drives. Furthermore, we now know that ships that small can carry FTL drives, i.e. the [[Blackbird]]. In fact, its entirley possible that the Blackbird's FTL drive itself CAME from a scrapped Mk. VII, instead of [[Raptor 305]] - the FTL engines for a Raptor might be too big for the tiny Blackbird, but a Mk. VII is only slightly bigger than the Blackbird.
The other small craft from the era of the second Cylon war, the Raptor, does have FTL drive. It would make sense that the Colonials installed an FTL drive on Mk. VII's, but not Mk. II's, because Mk. VII's are about 50 years newer.

Just a bunch of speculation. Feel free to add to my theory or poke some holes in it. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 20:51, 7 January 2006 (EST)
:Remember though, the Colonial 798 was making the trip, it was only 30 light minutes. In the novel btw, they were refueling at Caprica before continuing on to Picon where the squadron would be split up. Also, the trip from Caprica to the Big-G only took 798 5.4 hours. Military pilots endure longer flights across the Atlantic. Remember, Apollo was flying 7242 back to Caprica and it is a Mk. II. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:12, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:I'm inclined to agree, as the 2 Vipers and a Raptor thing had occured to me before, always while I wasn't around to add it here. It'd be '''very''' hard to explain otherwise. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 22:10, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::This would also make it easier to believe that the three Mk. VII vipers seen in Roslin's fleet were later integrated into Galactica's squadron. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:21, 7 January 2006 (EST)
:::You would think that if the Mk. VII was FTL-capable, they would've used them in the attack on the Tyllium asteroid. You know, jump behind the raider screen to attack the asteroid. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 08:25, 8 January 2006 (EST)
::::Yes, but Mk. VII's are "a handful for all but the most experienced of pilots." Starbuck was out for this mission, and the only other person we've seen fly a Mk. VII is Apollo - that is, until we see Pegasus, in which the entire compliment of pilots flies Mk. VII's. Again, another continuity error... so much for naturalistic science fiction. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 20:42, 22 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Well, they needed the nuggets to round out the squadron, and they were only certified for the Mk. IIs. Maybe the more experienced pilots also chose Mk. IIs to maintain tactical cohesion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:31, 22 January 2006 (EST)

I'm sorry that I didn't see this page before January 7th-ish. However, '''I think this entire line of reasoning is flawed''', and it's just jumping to conclusions here. The three main points you have here are that:
1)Galactica was far from Caprica 
2)Stinger ordered two Viper Mark VII's on a recon mission with a Raptor in "Pegasus" 
3)You think that since, small-sized (not captial-ship sized) vessels like Raptors have Jump drives, Vipers must also. 

However, all of these are fairly well explainable:

1) Galactica and Caprica and in the same star system at the time, albeit on opposite sides of the system or something. Remember, the conceit of the show is that there are Twelve habitable worlds in their one star system. Further, they made it a point that they don't always use Jump drives when they don't need to, fuel consumption, etc. 
2)Stinger did '''not''' order two Viper Mark VII's on a recon mission in "Pegasus". Although he ordered "Whiplash" and "Thumper" to get their "optical gear ready" he never said that they were going in their Mark VII's; although Whiplash is a Viper pilot, for all we know the two of them, just like Apollo, are qualified to operate a Raptor and Stinger just trusts them more or something. Point is, he never explicitly says "Viper", and we know that some Viper pilots know how to use Raptors. 
3) Raptors are bigger than a Viper, for starters, much bigger, so I think they can fit an FTL drive inside that Vipers cannot. Further, it's a "Limited" FTL drive. That is, it can only make small "hops" as opposed to one big Jump like Galactica. Remember how the "Ships" gallery on the official site explains that some ships have "short legs"? That is, they can get from Planet A to Planet B by making many small Jumps instead of one big one. On top of all of this, a Raptor is not a frontline combat unit. It's an electronic support ship. Heck, we've never even seen these things using weapons on a regular basis (missiles ''once''). So I think because they're not meant for frontline combat highspeed manuevering, they can fit in a bulky FTL drive, etc.

All of this leads me to the conclusion that speculating that Viper Mark VII's have FTL drives doesn't really hold up. I'm going to revert the edit on the article. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:05, 22 January 2006 (EST)

:Fair enough. 1 and 3 were fluff that I came up with after I had the Pegasus and Stinger reason, but yeah, you managed to poke a hole in that one that I missed. You've been doin' that with a lot of my theories lately. :-P :-) On a serious note, the two Raptors makes the most sense, and Whiplash and Thumper must be qualified in both. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 23:13, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::Well I'm just pointing out facts and proceeding from there; I mean I'm not going to just say "I disagree because that's dumb and I think Vipers shouldn't have them because I said so", etc. etc. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:17, 22 January 2006 (EST)

:::That wasn't meant to be a jab at you or anything - I agree with you. I went back and read the transcript of the dialogue, and you're completely right, Stinger doesn't mention Vipers.

:::After I mixed up yours and Peters comments on the Timeline (RDM) talk page, I was afraid you thought I was a troll or something, just making trouble. I'm not, I just wanna help contribute to this wonderful wiki you've got going here. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 00:44, 23 January 2006 (EST)

==Mark vs. Mk==
About the recent string of edits: I'm not certain, did we agree on the convention of using "Mark II" or "Mk II"? All of the "Mk"'s just got reverted to "Mark"'s. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:47, 15 October 2005 (EDT)
:We made the consensus that either Mark or Mk. were acceptable IIRC. I just think though that using Mark in, especially, designations looks sloppy. Mk. is an established military designation, especially in the British military. For full titles, I think it should be Mk. but Mark would be fine for others. The picture of the Mk. II, for example, I think looks better as Viper Mk. II rather than Viper Mark II. Conversely, I think that a line of text such as "The raiders engaged in a furball with seven Mark IIs" is fine. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:06, 3 November 2005 (EST)
::Also, note the period in Mk. as it is an abbreviation. I just read throught the Viper article and I think it just looks bad. Remember though, this is coming from someone who grew up reading "Jane's All the Worlds Aircraft" and such so it could just be what I'm used to. I only changed it in the picture captions. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:09, 3 November 2005 (EST)

Made the following changes:
*Mark VII has three engines, not two. Its third engine is partially shrouded by the fighter's tail root.
*Elaborated on what and how the Cylons comprimised the Mk VII.
*Suggested a possible thrust vectoring feature on the Mk VII's engines, based on its angular, segmented design.

Well, time to date and ID this old thing.

--[[User:David Templar|David Templar]], 4 May, 2005

== Changes ==

I deleted the Notes section following the Viper specs, it used to say:

"Since the Galactica only had 40 Viper Mk. II's aboard, they needed as many fighters as possible, thus the remaining Mk. VII's were refitted and stripped of their advanced computer systems. However, since this is not how the Mk. VII was designed, it makes the craft increasingly difficult to handle and can only be flown by the most experienced pilots (Apollo & Starbuck). Galactica has roughly 6-8 Mk. VII's on board after the Cylon attack ("Scattered", "Flight of the Phoenix")."

Almost none of that is canon. There's no indication that the Mk VII's systems were altered beyond removing the comprimised navigation software. The comment about it becoming more difficult to fly was taken from the Scifi channel's page, which has been wrong on more than one occasion. It certainly is not backed up by anything in the show.--David Templar, Octber 14, 2005
:I am completely reverting your edit. Yes, Scifi.com has been known to make mistakes, but nonetheless '''we regard it as canon until flatly contradicted by something else'''. Much of our Viper pilot numbers for the first season are based on the running count on the Vipers "CAG roster" section of the gallery. Further, it makes sense. Lastly, when you are talking on a discussion page, sign your name instead of leaving it blank, and date it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]], October 14, 2005

::I'm sure Ricimer meant to say "please". You can use <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> to leave behind a signature automatically. Also, that fact that the nuggets were started out in Mk. IIs lends support to the idea that they're somewhat easier to fly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:28, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Thanks Peter. No, I completely disagree with Ricimer that gutting the Mk VII's computers makes any sense. The problem has clearly been one of an exploitable software, which can be purged and the computer reverted to an earlier, safe program. So why would they take out all the advance computers? It's overkill to an unreasonable extent. At worst, they can disconnect the navigation computer from certain other systems, and that would not affect the ship's handling characteristics at all, even assuming the flight control falls under the navigational computer. And I'm pretty sure they're training pilots on the Mk IIs not only because they're simpler to fly (they're like Cessnas to Mk VII's F-16, Apollo has complained about their lack of electronics before in the miniseries), but also because they're more expendable (and possibly more rugged). We know that the Mk VIIs are certified for combat, and they're undoubtedly superior to the Mk II (even in the event that they have been lobotemized), so why would they have trainees fly the most complex, least replacible fighters when they don't even know if they can land? I hope this sig thing works.... --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 01:40, 15 October 2005 (EDT)
::::Wait, what you just said contradicted what was just said above; I mean, how could Viper Mark II's be more complex? I'm pretty sure on the basic idea that the networked control computers have been removed, at the cost of worse performance. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 09:29, 15 October 2005 (EDT)
:::::Sorry, should have phrased the sentence better. "why would they have trainees fly the most complex, least replacible fighters" refers to the Mk. VII, not the Mk. II. Flight control computers doesn't have to be networked with the other systems to work, though, maybe except the engines. The flight control system is only responsible for translating the pilot's control input into proper reaction control thruster response, that doesn't really require the help of any other systems. If one wants to get down right to the bone of the problem, it's this, in space flight, your ship has to be able to perform the following actions for you because you humanly can't:

:::::*You need your thrusters to fire twice for every course change you make, once to get you moving, once to stop you from continuing to move. This is technologically simple to do and doesn't require a networked computer, the thruster simply times the duration of its firing and tells it opposite number to fire for the same exact duration and power level once the pilot stops pulling the stick. You can't "unnetwork" the thrusters from each other (not that it'd achieve anything helpful) and/or "fly manually" in this area, it simply won't work, unless you intend to move with all the agility of the space shuttles. But even the space shuttle has computers to do the above tasks for it. If the pilot has to push his stick in the exact opposite direction as he had pulled it for the exact duration he had pulled it... Well, I think you get the idea. Since this doesn't really require an advanced computer, I don't see why if flight control has its own computer that it'd be changed.

:::::*The ship needs to able to know where it is, its relative velocity and vector from its immediate environment and the direction the nose is pointed. This is required for the ship to basically know how to stop itself from spinning, tumbling or drifting out of control. This would require the navigation system (it being in charge of knowing the ship's orientation and direction travelled) and could pose a problem for the pilot if it's decoupled from flight control... To put it mildly. Assuming the Mk. VII's navigational computer can autopilot the ship into controlled flight (ie. not tumbling and drifting laterally with respect to a defined orientation, say Galactica herself), then removing the link between navigational computer and flight control (assuming they're even separate systems) would mean that the navigational computer has to generate a heading indicator on the HUD for the pilot to point the ship at and burn towards order to bring an out of control ship back into controlled flight (without such a basic computer assistance, space fighter combat is impossible).

:::::Now, would having to use such an indicator make the Mk. VII harder to fly than the Mk. II? Not really. It would at the most make both equally difficult to stability in combat if the pilot lets the fighter get away from him. In controlled flight, however, there would be no real difference that isn't hardware based. If both fighters have thrusters of the same performance arranged in comparable positions, then they're both going to fly pretty much the same way. If the Mk. VII has more powerful thrusters in better positions, then it'll be more agile, although that is doubtful since the Mk. II is already incredibly agile and if the Mk. VII is notably more agile, I really don't know how the pilot can remain conscious. It could be that such a combination would allow the Mk. VII to get away from her pilot more easily (more sensitive to handle) and a dumbed down control recovery system makes stabilizing harder, but from what Starbuck has told us, the Mk. II is just as dangerous a performer if not MORE SO. At least in a highly computerized fighter, safety protocols can be put in place to control the violence with which the fighter turns (customizing control sensitivity to the pilot); less computerized fighters just does what it can as hard as it can. Also, from what we've seen of the Mk. II in combat, pilots have on several occasions put their Viper into a complex spin, suggesting that their control recovery might be automatic rather than indicator based. A manual recovery can be a very length event, depending on the degree of which the ship is out of control and the ability of the pilot, and almost certainly fatal if one is underfire as it involve making your fighter flying steady again. Frankly, it's not really even that hard to do for a computer, so the computer responsible for this doesn't seem likely to be particularly advanced.

:::::Now, what would decoupling flight control from navigation system accomplish in terms of protecting the fighter from Cylon infiltration? Absolutely nothing, assuming if they can even be treated as separate systems. The connection between flight control and navigation was never the problem, the whole problem was Cylon accessing the entire fighter via navigations. If navigation system can be separate from the rest of the network without affecting any of the nav system's duties as listed above, why gut every advance computer on the fighter? And if only the networking function has been removed from the Mk. VII, it certainly doesn't really make the Mk. VII harder to fly than the Mk. II.
:::::--[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 17:03, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

Although I can't bring myself to read that impressive missive through entirely, I would just like to note that Baltar's CNP was clearly a new development, and very probably postdated the Mk. VII anyway. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

I just had a tidbit to add, the Mk VII has a side stick while the Mk II has a center-mounted stick. IRL most FBW aircraft use side-mounted sticks, joysticks mounted on a side panel instead of between the pilots' legs, while most pre-FBW craft used center-mounted sticks. The F-16 is an example of the former and the F-14, the latter. ...Just something I noticed while watching 33 recently. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:58, 12 December 2005 (EST)

== Changes revisted ==
This is over the following:

"Since Galactica only had 40 Viper Mark II's aboard, they needed as many fighters as possible, thus the remaining Mark VII's were refitted and stripped of their advanced computer systems. However, since this is not how the Mark VII was designed, it makes the craft increasingly difficult to handle and can only be flown by the most experienced pilots such as Apollo and Starbuck. Galactica has roughly 6-8 Mark VII's on board after the Cylon attack ("Scattered", "Flight of the Phoenix"). (source: Scifi.com series website)"

I think there are enough evidence now to contradict the above and warrant its removal. The above was based on the idea that the Mk VII's high level of computerization made it vulnerable, not just Baltar's comprimised CNP. We're now quite sure that the CNP is the only culprit behind Mk VII's vulernability versus the Cylons. Season 2 has shown that everyone can fly Mk VIIs just fine and makes absolutely no mention of any removal of computer systems despite 20 episodes of opportunities. Even before Season 2, the miniseries flat-out said it was the CNP, but now we have even clearer proof that the Mk VIIs will work just fine without a total cybernetic lobotomy.

I'm not going to remove the section at this time, though, I'm waiting for people to agree and someone else can remove it. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 14:32, 17 March 2006 (CST)

== Dimensions new series Viper Mk II & Mk VII ==

The dimensions given here for the new series Vipers are a bit off. The correct sizes acording to Lee Stringer [http://www.leestringer.com/],one of the VFX Animators of the Mini Series, are:

=== '''Viper Mk2''' ===

Length: 8.4082 m

Wingspan: 4.7168 m

Height: 2.7247 m (in flight, without landing gear!)

=== '''Viper Mk7''' ===

Length: 9.8643 m

Wingspan: 5.61 m

Height: 2.9508 m (in flight, without landing gear!)

''"... IMPORTANT NOTE: These are from the CGI models NOT the fullsize props. Although measurements etc. where taken of the full size props and the CGIs made from that, it doesn't mean they match 100% ..." quote'' '''Lee Stringer'''

'''Source: [http://www.starshipbuilder.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000012.html]'''

--[[User:ThRow|ThRow]] 13:57, 3 November 2005 (EST)

:Excellent. I encourage you to add this information to the appropriate pages with the source and Mr. Stringer's credentials. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:48, 3 November 2005 (EST)

::Done!
::Same source gives also dimensions for [[Raptor]], [[Galactica (RDM)]] and [[Basestar (RDM)]].
::--[[User:ThRow|ThRow]] 23:25, 3 November 2005 (EST)

:::I rejigged your citation to use the footnote templates we have available. If you'd like to familiarize yourself with their use, please see [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad]] for references. Thanks for helping to make this site a more reliable resource. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:28, 4 November 2005 (EST)

I remember reading in a previous article on the raptors and Galactica's combat ships that the Vipers couldn't have a specific breakdown like the Raptors because we didn't have specific numbers to go along with each.

Well in [[Flight of the Pheonix]], Chief Tyrol does say the registry for Viper 54289. It's the Viper that Tyrol labels as unserviceable scrap. I wasn't sure if any one wanted this info so i just posted it under Viper Talk. [[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] December 25, 2005
:I listened to the audio on the DVD and he clearly says "Viper 289." The subtitles have to be a mistake, we've only seen three digit and four digit numbers on Vipers. You can see my theory on Viper serial numbers on the [[Viper 2276]] talk page. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:39, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::We do have an article on [[Viper 289]] as of recently. The comment disparaging the notion of keeping track of Vipers was probably mine, but I've changed my mind about that. It may also be possible to find other Viper serial numbers on DRADIS screens. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:24, 25 December 2005 (EST)

Well it wouldn't be the first time that there's a small mistake in the subtitles [[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] December 25, 2005
:I just wanted to use the DVDs I just got (about 30 minutes before for Christmas). Anyway, I'm going to go through, looking for Viper numbers and such. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:25, 25 December 2005 (EST)

==Viper Redirect==
Spencerian, you read my mind. I was wondering if maybe we should put a disambig at the top of this article, and then change Viper to a redirect to here. It's very common for people to just link Viper, and since we're rounding out the TOS content, most of the new references are going to be talking about this article. That way I'll never have to go on another Viper crusade like I did today... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:01, 17 January 2006 (EST)

==Mk II Turn Speed==
I remember starbuck saying in an episode that the viper can 'turn end over end in .35 seconds'. She says this when she is trying to scare the nuggets shes training. If someone remembers the episode an addiction ought to be made. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 01:21, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Antagonist. I remember it: "[[Act of Contrition]]," where we first see [[Kat]], among other nuggets. Technically speaking, this is also something that may be worth exploring on the [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] article, where technobabble is debunked with ''"Mythbusters"''-like tenacity. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:07, 13 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-03-17T20:04:47Z

David Templar: /* Armament Details */

I think the "fan estimate" of 6-8 Viper squads is off. According to http://galactica.tv/colonials/galacticatv.shtml, the Galactica had only 2 Viper squadrons. Since it was a museum ship, it's possible this is less than the usual complement.

-- John Reese

-------

Hi John,

Thanks for contributing! It's nice to see that the site's picking up now!

Actually, there are bits of information on the Galactica.tv (or Galactica2003.tv) website that are suspect, such as Tigh's first name being "Paul", as opposed to the canonized "Saul". We mainly use the episodes for canonical information; the Zoic, as the Colonial Archivist (Ernestborg9) can tell you, is mainly conjecture unless canonical info shows up to disprove it.

However, [[Battlestar|Battlestars]] in general carry 6-8 sqads; [[Galactica]] does carry two. (Or did, as I'm sure that the Galactica is now left with, at most, one full squadron of Mark IIs from the [[Mini-Series]], over the course of the series.)

- Joe

== Other Battlestars ==

Since the encounter of the Pegasus we have learned of another type of Battlestar,
will this page be edited in regard of this?

Another point is the appearence of the Galactica before the ship has been refitted
after the war. Is it clear that it had the appearance of the orginal show or is this
unclear?

Hardwing

: I've updated the page to reflect that this page deals primarily with the original battlestar class, of which ''Galactica'' is a member. I added a note on ''Pegasus'' and her class. There is a page for the [[Mercury-class]] battlestar, which could be edited and updated as this one as we get more technical information on that ship class. Note that only battlestars mentioned in an episode are canon; the rest technically may be made-up until then. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:00, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

=== Battlestar Article Structure ===

Since the term '''battlestar''' is a category of ship (analogous to space faring aircraft-carriers) shouldn't the content discussing battlestars in the RDM series, in overview terms, be moved to the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page, and there list the two classes we know of so far, the Mercury class and the "Galactica" class (i.e. "Original battlestar (RDM)" which we don't know the name of)..?

This would then have the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page discussing the overall details of the "''Galactica'' class" battlestar, like we are doing with the [[Mercury class battlestar]] page which is about the class, and the [[Pegasus (RDM)]] page which deals with the specific vessel.

So in essence the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page is the "root" page for the RDM entry on battlestars as a whole, then the [[Original battlestar (RDM)]] page about the "''Galactica'' class" battlestars in general, and the [[Galactica (RDM)]] page about the specifc vessel ''Galactica'':

==== Proposed restructuring ====

*[[Battlestar (RDM)]] (page about battlestars in general, i.e. "aircraft carriers")
**[[Original battlestar (RDM)]] (page about the original unnamed class as a whole)
***[[Galactica (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
**[[Mercury class battlestar]] (page about the Mercury class as a whole)
***[[Pegasus (RDM)]] (page about the specific vessel)
***[[Mercury]] page (page about the specific vessel)

Thus leaving the [[Battlestar]] page as the top level disambiguation page between series. So everything within the RDM series about battlestars would fall within the outlined framework above beginning with the [[Battlestar (RDM)]] page.

:We don't have much content to say about battlestars in general, and what we do would be redundant with [[Colonial Fleet]]. I agree that "other battlestar" references should probably be removed from this page, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 2 December 2005 (EST)

::Why would you want to remove reference to the other battlestars in this page? There are references made as to how there were 12 of the Original RDM class battlestars each representing one of the colonies (miniseries). Seems to me that the general overview information about the Original RDM class as a whole should be the content here, with listings of and links to the individual vessels of this class (''Galactica'' being one of course). — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:I think the Battlestar (RDM) link is a nice redirect link to Original Battlestar (RDM), but I'd avoid yet another disambig page. The show is focused on the events of ''Galactica''. It is very likely that ''Pegasus'' will disappear, one way or another, and that the modern battlestar will a footnote with no further additional data. Most readers will also be thinking of ''Galactica'' when they hear "battlestar" and not the lesser battlestars, almost all of which are mentioned-only and are very likely to remain that way, flashbacks notwithstanding. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:36, 2 December 2005 (EST)

:: I probably should not have used the term disambiguation page as it would be an actual content page (was actually thinking more of a root entry or overview entry), but rather a page devoted to general overview content on the nature of battlestars as capital ships, discussion of general concepts of flight operations, battlegroup structures, etc. With the links to the various classes of battlestars. While I understand that we may not get an abundance of canonical info on them from the show itself, I guess this begs the question of the extent to which the encyclopedia content is about "the show" and how much is about the Galactica universe within the show? I personally was hoping that this would be the platform and vehicle to collect and fill-in and expand on the later. Where things are structured and presented as a "NPOV" encyclopedia "from" the Galactica universe (or as sometimes referred to in gaming terms as a 'poetic map' or 'real map' that a player-character would have). Think of it as if we had an "actual" Hitchhiker's Guide (albeit "serious and accurate" not the apocryphal one portrayed in the books and movies, etc) "from" the Galactica universe which is then 'viewed' here (i.e. the entry content of the encyclopedia portions of this site) — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 17:23, 3 December 2005 (EST)

::: I really think [[Colonial Fleet]] is perfectly adequate to that task. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:12, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::: Ok, now I am a bit confused. Becuase before (I just read now) you seemed to be advocating basically the same thing when you said:

::::"We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think Aircraft carrier, Yorktown class aircraft carrier, Nimitz class aircraft carrier. --Peter Farago 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)"

::::Which is why I was porposing shifting sections of overview content about battlestars and the basics of them, to the "root" battlestar (RDM) page (no longer a redriect)... then specifics about each class as the next level pages, then entries pages on each specific vessel. — [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 21:06, 3 December 2005 (EST)

==Armament Details==

* ''With 512 Point-Defense Turrets, thats 1024 PD Guns, and from onscreen evidence, the Rounds Per Minute is atleast 90 or more. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Assuming a firing rate of 2 rounds per second, thats 120 rounds per minute, and from all turrets equates to 122,880 rounds per minute. 2048 rounds per second. Thats alot. (fan estimation.)''
** ''Considering a raider has been shown to be destroyed with around 4-10 direct hits, this means that should raiders enter the firing solution, would take only a few seconds to get blown up. If targetted by the PD turrets, less then a second. It would take a single turret 1 second to destroy a raider. That isn't accounting for maneuverability of the raider however. (fan estimation.)''
* ''Also, with 24 Rail gun turrets, thats, 48 rail gun , Barrels, if you will. Atleast 960 Rounds per minute (1 round per 3 seconds)''
** ''Onscreen evidence shows around 1 round firing per 2-3 seconds (please correct if wrong). Going with the 1 round-2 seconds, you get a single turret firing in a minute, 60 rounds. times that by 24 and you come to 1,440 rounds per minute.''
** ''Due the turrets being "rail guns", the rounds go much faster then the rounds fired from the PD turrets. This means that a single hit to a raider should destroy it due to the kenetic energy imparted to the raider. If this is true, then a battlestar, with accurate aiming, could take out 1,440 raiders in a minute. Thats like, double the estimated capacity of a basestar! Thats if every shot is a direct hit.''

This is interesting. Do you have a source for: the number of point-defense turrets, the number of rail guns, and the ''existance'' of rail guns (on-screen evidence indicates a three-rail design, which is inconsistant with the physics of a rail gun)? I don't think any of those things have been shown or mentioned on screen yet.

This line of inquiry might enable us to speculate on the Battlestar's total ammo store, if we can derive our estimates from good data. However, the concept of a Basestar sending two raider wings directly into Galactica's firing solution is a little silly. ''Galactica's'' firing solution has been used to provide cover for vipers and screen the ship from nukes, not to target enemy fightercraft directly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:55, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::''Aramaments - Defensive''
::* ''24 x primary railgun turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)
::* ''512 x point-defense turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)''

:according to the wiki entry.
:also pictures on there show the existance of the rail guns. 8 ontop. 8 on the under side of the 'crocodile head', and 8 on the underbelly.

:the Rate of Fire is all my doing however.

:can someone get me a short video of when the ship actually fires? cuz im actualy needing this much detail for something im doing (and using this wiki as a reference for).

:its guessing though i counted erm, 498 turrets myself.
:and worked out for that too , ive got those calculations somewhere.

:keeping in mind some of the personnel guns they have, that fire ate more-then-1-round-per-second (in some cases. for instance a gattling gun, while not seen onscreen they likely have one, what with theyre parralels with earth tech)..
:its more then realistic RoF for each turret no?

:asfor the rail gun RoF
:on second thought,
:ill need to re-examine the footage of the rail guns firing.
:theyre not said to be rail guns but theres a shot somewhere of 4 turrets , that resemble the rail guns, firing.
:ok ill stop now.

:thx for the, well, not going mad :)

:edit - oh sos forget this: --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 12:26, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::Be careful when citing unsourced fan-estimates in your calculations. I don't think those stats on turret count should even be there without a source. This article needs some serious cleanup in that regard. As for rate of fire, that can probably be estimated by frame-stepping through the relevant effects scenes in the miniseries. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:39, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Shall I upload my modified pics of the underbelly, top and side somewhere and link them in here for others to count? i can link to both the unmodified and the modified versions so people can compare each individual one. and asfor the frame-stepping, is there a scene of the galactica firing, upclose in the first 5 episodes? --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 14:04, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I think it would be better for you to upload it to your own web space if possible and then post links here, if that's possible. It would be interesting to see. Close-ups on Galactica's guns firing can be found in the mini-series, and I believe the footage was reused in "33". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:57, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I just wanted to point out that the Galactica has 20 heavy turrets, not 24. There are eight on each of the dorsal and ventral sides and four under the nose of the fore-section. You can see these on the Zoic high-res pictures of the Big G. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:53, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::I uploaded a picture to show what I mean. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:09, 28 September 2005 (EDT) [[Image:BSG_Ortho_Bottom.jpg|thumb]]
:::::::Excellent. Can the smaller guns also be seen on the elevations? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:29, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, especially on the flight pod. There are other batteries along the top and bottom of the fore-section split, the top of the central hull, below the flight pods, and along both upper and lower engine pods. These are just the ones I've found though. I'll upload the other ortho views now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:35, 28 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::Actualy i can show you where the extra 4 come from!!! they are partially hidden . 2 on either side on the crocidile head. the hull plating left on either side of the underbelly, look there and youll see the other 4. *smiles like a know-it-all. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:19, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::::::If you mean the ones visible in the ventral elevation, I think Talos was including those in his count. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:35, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::::::::those are fully visible. theres 4 at the very front and 2 either side of the underbelly partially visible. ill upload the pic when i get the change.
::::::::::::No need, I see them. Odd place for them, their range of motion must be quite constrained. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
::: (okay all these colons are really making this page long vertically. go 3-4-5-3 etc lol. anyway. ive uploaded to imageshack the pic so if anyone wants to count them and compare like i did go ahead. erm its 6:45am and had 3 hours sleep so , i forgot, how do i link? lol. img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottomguns8ns.jpg (edit into a link for us. cheers) btw the pic is huge. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 01:44, 29 September 2005 (EDT)
:Man, those large turrets are well hidden. I did not see them until now. You can also see the long line of small turrets along the edges of the main body. Look at the red markings on the bottom and go straight down until you reach the edge. You'll see them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:20, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

Changed "Each barrel fires non-explosive rounds in bursts" to explosive rounds. I mean, take a look at the screen cap from "Scattered" right in the same section and the data on Galactica's main batteries. Her large guns aren't capable of generating the dense flak barrier seen in the episode, their rate of fire and coverage are just too low. Besides, her main guns are generally used in direct fire roles. Even assuming Galactica's secondary batteries are only firing the same rounds as the Vipers (which they probably don't, Galactica's secondaries look considerably larger than Viper's guns), a 25-30mm round is plenty large to have a time-fuse. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 14:04, 17 March 2006 (CST)

==This Article Needs Work==

Who will join me in stripping this article of non-canon information and clearly labelling sources? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:07, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

: A challenge, but I like that. Perhaps we can move the Zoic information to a new page, as it is close to canon as we've got since they are part of the production process, although little of their info can be collaborated yet. We probably need to have this page moved to "Original Battlestar" or "Battlestar (RDM)" or somehow disamb it. Or, just offload the TOS info to another page. In a way I'm also big on placing the tech stats with the other technology pages to keep it easy to edit and read for both pages. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:28, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::We should definitely namespace it into Battlestar (TOS), Battlestar (VG), Battlestar (RDM). Also, we could split the RDM article into "Battlestar" as a general concept, and the unnamed Galactica-class battlestar specifically - think [[Wikipedia:Aircraft carrier|Aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Yorktown class aircraft carrier|Yorktown class aircraft carrier]], [[Wikipedia:Nimitz class aircraft carrier|Nimitz class aircraft carrier]].

::Lastly, we must find an actual link to the Zoic source on all these details if we're going to keep them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:22, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:::That sounds good. I should be able to do the heavy work of moving data from the general "Battlestar" page to new pages for TOS and RDM battlestars and classes we know, and each of these pages will have links to their appropriate TOS or RDM named battlestar page. I may not strike the Zoic stuff yet, but at least by moving matters to separate pages, it will be much more manageable. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:28, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

The heavy work is done. This article has become a disamb page for all battlestar information. Unfortunately I did not properly move the [[Galactica]] page to [[Galactica (RDM)]], but created a new page instead. The content of the new page is OK, but the [[Galactica]] page should redirect to Galactica (RDM) to keep its history. There are several new pages that link from this page. The Pegasus (RDM) page deserved an article of its own and its page was moved, while Pegasus TOS from the original Battlestar page had only a few lines that were merged into [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. The new Galactica RDM class has [[Battlestar (RDM)]] for that general information. [[Mercury-class]] was moved to [[Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)]] to keep its history and keep article consistency. Galactica has a TOS and RDM page (note earlier screw up) as well as Battlestars of TOS. I hope this aids greatly in keeping mixed information from becoming a bother. This does create bad links throughout, but the primary ones to catch are [[Galactica]] (which should redirect to Galactica (RDM) unless on a TOS area), Pegasus (which should go to Pegasus (RDM) if new, or Battlestar (TOS) if not). Comments, criticizm and help are appreciated. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

:Okay, I just finished a bit of cleanup. I've moved "Mercury-class Battlestar (RDM)" to "Mercury-Class Battlestar", since there's no need to disambiguate it from a TOS page of the same name that might ever exist. I've also corrected the namespace on "Galactica (Video Game 2003) to "Galactica (Video Game)", which is the namespace the other articles use. I've created a redirect from "Galactica" to "Galactica (RDM)", and moved the talk bage from "Talk:Battlestar" to "Talk:Battlestar (RDM)" (there were no TOS-specific comments there). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

::Thanks. The Mercury-class remove makes sense. Although I added RDM on those namespaces for consistency, your move simplifies the namespaces. There have been many games for BSG over the years, thus the use of the year just in case someone starts discussing other older games or new games are created. We can worry about that later. With the separations, we can see how some pages really could use more content, especially the TOS Galactica page. That's pretty sad, when you think of it. Perhaps another enterprising person can fill it will some general history. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:02, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

==Battletar Tally==

This page, like [[Mercury-class Battlestar]] is for a specific (albeit unnamed) class of battletar. A tally of the fleet's unclassified battlestars is not appropriate here, and should go in [[Colonial Fleet]].
:Makes sense. For lack of a better place to put it, I left it as a vestigial part from its former article. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:52, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

==Capitalization==

Battlestar isn't a proper noun, so it shouldn't be capitalized in article names. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:04, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:I've been wrestling with that. So, when using battlestar, it seems fine to capitalize it ''as'' an article when next to a battlestar name, as in "Battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica". But when discussing the ship it should be "battlestar" just as we would use "carrier" and not "Carrier" for aircraft carriers. I find the use of "the battlestar ''Galactica'' awkward: no definitive article required there when the ship name is next to it. An item for the Standards page? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

::Based on usage on the Wikipedia WWII articles, it would be either "the battlestar ''Galactica'' left for Caprica" or just "''Galactica'' left for Caprica". The only time Battlestar should be capitalized is in the title of the show. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:50, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

:::So say they all. It shall be done. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:41, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

==Warheads==

In the [[Miniseries]], Geata reports that the chief says it will be three hours to load all the warheads. I think this establishes that Galactica was, in fact, loading nukes from Ragnar, and that the five it departed the system with (c.f. Bastille Day) were all it could carry. The number does seem low to me, but what other sort of warhead would they be talking about? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:16, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:Maybe conventional missile warheads and bombs for the Vipers, possibly conventional warheads for Galactica, and warheads for the shells fired by the main cannons. It shouldn't take three hours to load five warheads, even nukes. It's possible that Ragnar only had five warheads. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:05, 30 December 2005 (EST)
::The main cannons would probably fire shells, not warheads, and we haven't seen any non-nuclear warheads used by the Colonials so far. I agree that it's possible Ragnar's stores were the limiting factor, though, rather than ''Galactica's'' capacity. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 30 December 2005 (EST)

==Article Title==
Something Memory Alpha does for articles on unnamed ship classes is refer to them as "___ type" rather than "___ class", where the article would be named after the most prominent ship of the class rather than the (unknown) lead ship. You can see this at:
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aeon type|Aeon type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Artic One type|Artic One type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Aurora type|Aurora type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Bok'Nor type|Bok'Nor type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Kyr type|D'Kyr type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:D'Vahl type|D'Vahl type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Intrepid type|Intrepid type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:Raven type|Raven type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:SD-103 type|SD-103 type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:USS Enterprise-J type|USS Enterprise-J type]]
*[[MemoryAlpha:XCV type|XCV type]]
What do our military experts think of this sort of nomenclature? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:34, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:That sounds good, the only question is: Is it battlestar Galactica-type, or Galactica-type battlestar? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:55, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::I'd go for "Galactica type battlestar" to match "Mercury class battlestar", personally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:00, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:::I tend to agree. "Original battlestar" as a title is both ambiguous (is this page about the first battlestar ever built?) and clumsy. Galactica-type Battlestar should be the new title, and the move should be done sooner rather than later. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::::I concur, and we should make similar it to what we have as shown: "Galactica type battlestar" (no hyphens). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:40, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Bow batteries ==
There's a new line about bow batteries, but doesn't that apply to the Mercury-class (''Pegasus'') and not the Galactica type battlestar? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:20, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes. I'm removing it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:38, 20 February 2006 (EST)
::I was in the middle of doing that and got an edit conflict. Oh well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:40, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== ''Where'' exactly did this quote come from? ==

I removed the following quote from this page, because while it attributes who said the quote, we don't have a ''source'' for the quote (i.e. where it came from).

: I was asking Gary Hutzel to give me the technical specs just last week, actually. I think he described the flight pods [hangar decks] as being about four football fields in length." (source: Robert Falconer)

Please provide a source for the quote (whether it be an interview, bulletin board post, etc.) ASAP. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Capacity of Galactica's Hangers==
I'd like to point something out about the fighter carring capabilities of battlestars. Apparently all fighters on battlestars are carried in the 2 flight pods(one flight pod in Galactica's case). Each flight pod as stated in the Galactica Type Battlestar "is almost twice the length of a Nimitz class carrier, is some 150ft (46m) wider and is approximately as tall as a Nimitz class carrier measured from the waterline to the top of the carrier's communications and ELINT tower." Now assuming that the hangar deck on the Nimitz is as long as the flight deck (which is not),considering that the lower level of the flight pod of the Galactica is the hangar for that flight pod and not taking in to account that the flight pod is wider then the Nimitz hull at the level of the hangar deck, the surface of the hangar deck in a flight pod is twice that of a Nimitz class carrier. Galactica has at last 4 times the hangar space of the Nimitz. The Nimitza can carrie 85 aircraft, 50 of which ar fighters. So I don't know how the person who wrote this article came up with the figure of 80 Vipers carried in a fully armed battlestar,since this number would't even fill a quarter of the hangar space.What did they do with the rest of the hangar, play football maybe, or baseball? Take in to acoount that a Viper is about 8 times smaller in volume than an F-14, having half the lenght,wingspan and height, and a raptor just about as big. A Galactica type battlestar would be able to carry at least 400 Vipers and Raptors.
:I was looking at the orthos of Big-G a second ago and I think that the hanger isn't a very wide structure. The elevator that 2276NC lands on in the Mini is in the center of the hanger and is shown to be significantly off-center from the flight deck. The launch tubes also seem to take up alot of the flight pod. Even the Nimitz class can carry more aircraft than they do. Plus, Galactica has to carry Raptors, a half dozen or so, so it's not just Vipers. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:03, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::My thinking is like this picture. The box I drew extends across all the launch tubes visible in the side view, plus a little in the rear for maintenance and storage. This would protect the hanger from damage, like after the nuke in the Mini. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:12, 15 March 2006 (CST)
[[Image:Hanger.JPG|thumb|Hanger example]]

:::As far as "what else is all the hanger space used for", we've seen ships as large as Colonial One docking inside the flight pods. (Although Colonial One isn't that large...) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:02, 15 March 2006 (CST)

The area you drew Talos is still larger the the hangar of the Nimitz. Look at the picture that compares the Nimitz to the Galactica, and take in to accout that the hangar deck has a smaller width then the then the flight deck. The rectangle that you drew is about the width of the hanagar on a Nimitz and is still longer. And you should take in to account that a Viper Mk VII according to the page on this site is 9.8643 m long has a wingspan of 5.61 m and is 2.9508 m high (in flight, without landing gear.) the Naval fighter equivalent woould be the F-18 C/D(I'm not considering the larger E/F variant) which is has an overall length of 17,07, an width of 8.38 m wings folded and a height of 4,66m. The F-18 C/D is almost twice as long as wide and as tall as a Viper. A Nimtz class carrier carries 50 F-18 (both the C/D variant and the larger E/F variant which has replaced the F-14 in all but 2 naval squadrons). A Galactica type should be able to carrie at least 90 Vipers and 35 oher suport aircraft larger then the Raptor (the 35 suport aircraft carried buy the Nimitz are all larger then the Raptor) in a single flight pod.--[[User:DArhengel|DArhengel]] 12:37, 16 March 2006 (CST)
:I went back to the DVDs and it appears that they only store Vipers along one side of the hanger, with most of the other wall being launch tubes. In the mini, there is a nice shot down the hanger after Apollo lands. A Mk VII is parked in a niche and going by that, it looks like the hanger is ~20 meters wide (useable space, not including supports, etc). The hanger appears to be very long but narrow which would make the best use of the space considering the size of the craft and the need for launch tubes and elevators (I believe the elevators are between the banks of launch tubes). I'll go figure out the length and update the example I showed above. Thanks for the stimulating conversation, by the way, it's a fun topic for me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:09, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Galactica type battlestar

2006-03-17T19:57:06Z

David Templar: /* Armament */

''This article discusses the original battlestar class (of which ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' is a member) of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]]. For information on the battlestars of the Original Series, see [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. For information on the newer ''Mercury'' class battlestars, see [[Mercury class battlestar]].''

[[Image:Bsg-bsg-1.jpg|thumb|250px|Original Colonial Battlestar (credit: Zoic)]]

==Overview==
[[Image:Destroyed Battlestar Mini.JPG|thumb|right|A destroyed ''Galactica'' type battlestar ([[Miniseries]]).]]
The '''''Galactica'' type battlestar''' is a capital Colonial warship that combines the functions of aircraft carrier and battleship. The first twelve battlestars were laid down in the early days of the [[Cylon War]], each representing one of the [[Twelve Colonies]] ([[Miniseries]]). This article concerns that original, and unnamed, class.

Following the end of the war, the original battlestars remained in service, and many newer battlestars were built. At the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], the newer [[Mercury-class Battlestar|''Mercury''-class]] represented the top of the line.

The original battlestars were space-going leviathans of some 4,640ft (1,547m) in length, housing 80 [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] space superiority fighters arranged in 4 squadrons of 20 apiece, and several nuclear warheads. A fully-armed battlestar is capable of a wide range of offensive actions, while her defensive armaments ensure she is fully capable of both protecting herself from attack, and of engaging an enemy at close quarters.

==Layout==
The design common to ''Galactica'' and her sister ships can be broken down into two main sections: the main hull, and the twin flight pods.

=== Main Hull ===

This comprises the bulk of a battlestar, and can, itself, be divided into three sections:

The "alligator head" contains the primary living space for the crew, recreational facilities, mess halls, shipboard operations centres (such as the [[CIC]] and [[Situation Room]]){{ref|nosource}}; water storage tanks ([[Water]]).

The midships area contains the pod retraction mechanisms, crossways linking the hanger pods for the transfer of equipment and personnel, as well as all the necessary hoists for such transfers ([[Miniseries]]). Main munitions stores and distribution mechanisms to "local" munitions stores for main and secondary batteries; fabrication facilities; etc {{ref_label|nosource|1|a}}.

The stern section contains sublight engines, [[FTL]] drive coils, etc. Note that 4 of the sublight engines are mounted externally in engine pods, with 2 more mounted between the pods, in the stern of the battlestar's main hull.

=== Flight Pods ===
The flight pods are mounted on either side of the hull and contain a battlestar's offensive [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] force. During normal operations, they are extended away from the main hull. During FTL jumps, the pods are retracted against the hull. Each pod comprises two main decks for flight operations: the upper landing bay, which extends the full length of the pod; and the lower launch bays, which provide some 40 launch tubes per pod.

The landing bay serves as a recovery area for incoming Vipers and [[Raptor]]s. Approaches are made from the stern. The preferred approach is a slow run into the landing bay, prior to making a vertical landing on a defined landing area. However, in emergencies, [[Combat Landing|combat landings]] can be made, in which a Viper or Raptor approaches at speed and makes a running landing on its undercarriage.

The forward end of the landing bay also serves as a launch area for Raptors and shuttles. The landing bay is large enough to accept a variety of other Colonial vessels, at least as large as "heavy" passenger ships such as ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]''. Docking collars are located throughout the upper sections of the landing bay in order to provide a pressurised connection between a docked vessel and the battlestar. The Flight Pods also have docking ports to dock with larger ships or stations.

The [[Hangar Deck|hangar deck]] within the a flight pod are used as general dispersal areas for Vipers. The hangar deck is used for maintenance & repair of Vipers / Raptors, re-fuelling, re-arming and launch operations. A hangar deck runs the length of the flight pod, but can be divided and sealed off into five sections for damage control puroposes. Each hangar deck section has eight launch tubes, two launch control stations, and an elevator that leads to the landing bay above. Viper flight operations are overseen by a [[Landing Signal Officer]], with each launch supervisor being directly responsible for all launch operations for a group of four launch tubes{{ref_label|nosource|1|b}}.

==Specifications==

===Dimensions===
Hull:
* Length: 4,640ft (1.414m)
* Beam: 1,820ft (555m) (flight pod to flight pod - extended)
* Draft: 580ft (177m) (source: [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ SciFi.com])

Flight Pods:
* Length (approx): 2,019ft (615m)
* Beam (approx): 360ft (110m)
* Draft (approx): 211ft (64m) {{ref|pods}}

[[Image:bsg-2-cvn.jpg|right|thumb|Battlestar / CVN comparison (credit: Zoic / VF)]]
''An appreciation of the size of an original battlestar can be gleaned from the following: A battlestar is over 4 times longer than a [[Wikipedia:USS Nimitz|''Nimitz'']]-class US Navy nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. The flight pod of an original battlestar is almost twice the length of a ''Nimitz'' class carrier, is some 150ft (46m) wider and is approximately as tall as a ''Nimitz'' class carrier measured from the waterline to the top of the carrier's communications and [[Wikipedia:ELINT|ELINT]] tower. The beam of an original battlestar's "alligator head" is as broad as a ''Nimitz''-class carrier's flight deck is long. Each of the nacelles of an original battlestar's outer four sublight engines is large enough to house a ''Nimitz''-class carrier.''

===Propulsion===
[[Image:Sublight.jpg|thumb|right|''Galactica'' with all six sublight engines engaged ([[33]])]]
* 2 x FTL engines and drive coils{{ref|ftl}}
* 6 x sublight engines
** 2 x Hull-mounted
** 4 x outrigger engine pods
* 40 x maneuvering engines (10 clusters of 4 apiece){{ref|zoic}}.

Despite their massive size, battlestars are extremely maneuverable and can dock with space stations such as the [[Ragnar Anchorage]] depot. Battlestars are not designed for atmospheric flight, although their hulls can manage a tenuous upper atmospheric storm like that surrounding the gas giant [[Ragnar]] ([[Miniseries]]). A battlestar's [[FTL]] systems are capable of very accurate Jumps, able to place them precisely in synchronous orbit above any point on a planet ([[Miniseries]]) and of placing them in the midst of an asteroid field ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]) or dense fleet of ships ([[Scattered]]), without risk of a devastating impact. However, they are grossly inferior to [[Cylon]] systems in range ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

===Endurance===
Battlestars are intended to operate for long periods without resupply. Their water purification capabilities alone are so efficient that, barring an emergency or unforeseen event, a battlestar can operate without re-tanking "for several years before replenishing" ([[Water]]). They also appear capable of undertaking large-scale repairs following battle damage ([[Miniseries]], [[Water]]), and may have small manufacturing/fabrication facilities on-board ([[Litmus]]). Vegetable stores and canned goods are kept in [[Wikipedia:Titanium|titanium]] lockers ([[Final Cut]]).

===Computer Systems===
The original battlestar vessels deliberately avoided the use of networked computer systems and wireless devices, as the [[Cylon]] enemy were adept at infiltrating and subverting such systems ([[Miniseries]]).

Although they do employ [[computers]] for such functions as [[FTL]] calculations, navigation, damage control and fire control ([[Scattered]]), these are not connected with each other. This design is intended to naturally quarantine individual systems in the event that one becomes compromised.

===Armament===
[[Image:Flakfield.jpg|thumb|right|Flak field from ''Galactica's'' large turrets ([[Scattered]])]]
[[Image:Bscap064.jpg|thumb|''Galactica's'' point defense turrets]]
*24 large flak turrets{{ref|flak}} (mounting 2 guns apiece)
These are mounted on the dorsal and ventral surfaces of the main hull and the ventral surface of the bow. The two guns on each turret fire explosive flak rounds in tandem at a rate of 2.23 seconds per round.

*Numerous{{ref|small}} smaller turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece)
These are smaller two-gun turrets mounted on the flight pods and other surfaces. Each barrel fires explosive rounds in bursts, with a rate of fire of 200 rounds per turret per second (estimate based on one tracer per four rounds).

*Multiple nuclear warheads{{ref|nukes}}.

*Four squadrons of 20 "[[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]" air/space superiority fighters{{ref|vipers}}. Even the latest Mk. VII Vipers remain compatible with this class's launch and recovery facilities.

*Numerous{{ref|raptors}} "[[Raptor]]" reconnaissance vehicles.

 

===Crew===
''Galactica's'' crew complement prior to her scheduled decommissioning was approximately 2,800{{ref|crew}}. This figure may be higher for a fully staffed and operational battlestar.

===Life Support===
Approximately twelve oxygen recirculation units are mounted throughout the ship, which replenish oxygen as well as remove ("scrub") carbon dioxide from the air. These devices work continuously ([[Final Cut]]).

==Sources==
# {{note|nosource}}{{note_label|nosource|1|a}}{{note_label|nosource|1|b}} No source provided. Figures and comments which are unsourced are being considered for deletion, in compliance with the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|Citation Jihad]].
# {{note|pods}} Calculated based on elevations made available by Zoic.
# {{note|ftl}} '''Tigh:''' "Engineering/Combat. Please spin up FTL drives One and Two." ([[Mini-Series]])
# {{note|zoic}} Originally sourced to [[Zoic]] without explanation.
# {{note|flak}} These have been referred to as railguns by some fan sources, but there is substantial evidence to the contrary. See [[Railgun]] for more.
# {{note|small}} Unsourced figures have ranged from 252 to 512. According to the BSG Magazine, the number is 504.
#{{note|nukes}} As of the episode "[[Bastille Day]]", ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' was equipped with five nuclear warheads. This may be lower than the typical number, since ''Galactica'' was in the process of being decommissioned and had already had most of its ammunition removed. If this is the case, we must conclude that ''Galactica'' was unable to reload its supply of nuclear arms at [[Ragnar Anchorage]] (a sensible proposition, given the ease with which purported arms smuggler [[Leoben Conoy]] was able to gain access to the facility).
# {{note|vipers}}After the destruction of 20 Vipers during the Cylon Attack, ''Galactica'' was still able to muster a 40-Viper strong defensive screen by combining their remaining squadron of Mk. VII vipers with a full squadron of Mk. II vipers from a museum exhibit in the starboard flight pod. This suggests that ''Galactica'', with a single operational flight pod, was fielding two squadrons from it, and that when fully operational it could have fielded an additional two squadrons from the starboard pod as well.
# {{note|raptors}}At the time of the Cylon Attack, ''Galactica'' was apparently equipped with at least eight. See [[Galactica (RDM)#endnote_raptors|Galactica Raptor tally]] for a running count.
# {{note|crew}} See [[Galactica (RDM)#endnote_originalcrew|Galactica crew count]].

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]][[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category:Technology]] [[Category:Battlestars]]

Talk:Unknown Cylon Ship/Archive 1

2005-10-23T01:30:41Z

David Templar: /* Superweapon? Flagship? */

==Superweapon? Flagship?==
The Unknown Cylon Ship is not only a Raider factory and command and control ship, but it is also a superweapon and it may be the flagship of operations of the Cylon leader himself. --[[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 14:29, 16 October 2005 (EDT)
*I'm assuming you mean "I THINK that it is a superweapon"; the way you phrase it is confusing. And probably not. I mean what's it going to do, destroy a planet? The Twelve Colonies have already been devastated by nuclear attack! That, and we have already speculated that it is the flagship of the new Imperious Leader--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:35, 16 October 2005 (EDT)
:*Trying to get us talking, John? It'll be interesting to see if it works. Looks like you've been around since April, so you know what you're getting into. Present your evidence (I'm unaware of any) and we'll have a look. Good Luck. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 14:50, 16 October 2005 (EDT)
I'll bring in more evidence once the Unknown Cylon Ship finally appears in the 2003/5 remake of Battlestar Galactica. The Imperious Leader hasn't appeared nor was mentioned in the remake yet. -- [[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 16:08, 22 October 2005 (EDT)
::*My money is that it's a Basestar Classic, at least from what I can make out of the recon photos. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 21:29, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

Talk:Unknown Cylon Ship/Archive 1

2005-10-23T01:29:49Z

David Templar: /* Superweapon? Flagship? */

==Superweapon? Flagship?==
The Unknown Cylon Ship is not only a Raider factory and command and control ship, but it is also a superweapon and it may be the flagship of operations of the Cylon leader himself. --[[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 14:29, 16 October 2005 (EDT)
*I'm assuming you mean "I THINK that it is a superweapon"; the way you phrase it is confusing. And probably not. I mean what's it going to do, destroy a planet? The Twelve Colonies have already been devastated by nuclear attack! That, and we have already speculated that it is the flagship of the new Imperious Leader--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:35, 16 October 2005 (EDT)
:*Trying to get us talking, John? It'll be interesting to see if it works. Looks like you've been around since April, so you know what you're getting into. Present your evidence (I'm unaware of any) and we'll have a look. Good Luck. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 14:50, 16 October 2005 (EDT)
I'll bring in more evidence once the Unknown Cylon Ship finally appears in the 2003/5 remake of Battlestar Galactica. The Imperious Leader hasn't appeared nor was mentioned in the remake yet. -- [[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 16:08, 22 October 2005 (EDT)
::My money is that it's a Basestar Classic, at least from what I can make out of the recon photos. --[[UserLDavid Templar|David Templar]] [[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 21:29, 22 October 2005 (EDT)