Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Sacred Scrolls/Archive 1

2006-07-24T19:50:03Z

CrimsonLine: /* Hand-Written? */

Greetings, Jzanjani. I welcome you to the battlestar wiki and want you to know that I appreciate your desire to contribute here. However, your edits to this article baffle me. At present, it has been meticulously arranged to provide the most comprehensive information possible in an objective, well-cited manner with separate sections for interpretation and commentary. If you feel this layout is mistaken, or that there's information which needs to be incuded in this article which we've missed, I would like you to make your case here, on the talk page, before comitting another revision. Thank you for your consideration. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:03, 5 October 2005 (EDT)

==On the Format of Character Quotes==

I think we should agree on a standard format for character quotes. If you look up similar pages to this one on other Wiki databases, for example [http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Babylon_5 this one] on Babylon 5, you can see they have a much more attractive quote format. Personally, I find the following quote format to be most attractive:

:"That thing put two rounds into my father's chest!" - ''[[Lee Adama|Captain Lee "Apollo" Adama]], "[[Home, Part I]]"''

or, more directly:

:<tt>Indent, Double Quote, QUOTATION, /Double Quote, dash, italic, NAME, comma, Double Quote, EPISODE, /Double Quote, /italic</tt>

I'm not sure if this comment should be somewhere else, but I think the Sacred Scrolls article in particular could definitely use some cleanup. [[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 16:08, 5 October 2005 (EDT)

:See [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:31, 5 October 2005 (EDT)

:: I would be extatic if you'd post this comment for discussion on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|Standards and Conventions]] project page. That's really the best place to discuss such sweeping things.

:: As for using that format here, I don't think it would do for multiple-character exchanges, such as are seen in this article. That format would be fine, though, for, say, the Quote of the Day. That's under discussion at Standards and COnvention, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:34, 5 October 2005 (EDT)

==Cycle of Time==
I'm just a little surprised that folks haven't made a correlation between the whole idea of the "Cycle of Time" and another popular science fiction series--Lexx! From the very first movie of that series, the Time Prophet played an important role. The Time Prophet says that the Universe goes through cycles, repeating itself endlessly. She sees the future, not by looking forward, but by looking back into the distant past to previous cycles (but "not clearly"). At one point, Stanley (the incredible loser who is the "hero" of Lexx) comes across a recording from thousands of years ago that the Time Prophet left for him, telling precisely how to get out of the terrible situation he was in at that moment. Likewise, the Time Prophet told the great warrior Kai that the last of his people would one day overthrow a tyrant (His Divine Shadow), but that he himself would be the last of them to fall, murdered by that same tyrant. Weirdly, that is precisely what happened. She says "Time begins and then time ends, and then time begins once again.
It is happening now, it has happened before, it will surely happen again." Sound kinda familiar? [[User:Zahir|Zahir]] 19:37, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:Actually a lot of shows do that, i.e. Bablyon 5, others, etc. and it's nothing new; Lexx wasn't very original with that.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:13, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:: The idea of time in eternal cycles certainly is not an original one, as noted in the article. But where was that even hinted at on Babylon 5? Or, for that matter, any other science fiction show? Well, there was a hint of it on Red Dwarf once. Really, I'm curious. [[User:Zahir|Zahir]] 02:16, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::Good question, Zahir. Time loops notwithstanding (say, in "Star Trek" or "Doctor Who"), I can't remember a SF TV show with a cyclical pattern. I know that "The Matrix" movies have a cyclical pattern (until Neo breaks it by its 6th cycle in "Reloaded."). Ricimer could be talking about Valen/Sinclair and his causality loop ("Babylon Squared" and "War Without End" two-parter). Again, that's a time loop more than a cyclical thing. There is also the Christian belief of Christ and resurrection and return (Catholic eucharistic prayer: "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again"). But still, "Matrix" is the closest to what constitutes a non-temporal repeating pattern. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:51, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::::Actually I was referring to Delenn's new age felgercarb and that for millions of years, every 1,000 years (give or take) the Shadows attack the galaxy yet again. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:17, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::::That's no "Cycle of Time" in the sense of history repeating itself, though, but rather a singular cyclical event that happens time and again to different people until someone finds a way to end it. The circumstances are quite different every time. It's not any different from solar activity cycles or cyclical weather patterns. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 05:21, 26 February 2006 (EST)

==Removed==
(START)''"This really ought to be a seperate theory, but I don't know how to do that. I'll just put it here.
The two exodus theory -
This is similar to other theories in that there is a cycle of time which is played out again and again. However in this theory there are two seperate occasions which call for an exodus. The details of each itteration are different, but the overall events are very similar.
The humans leave the Kobol
They settle the colonies
They create AI
The AI rebels and departs
The AI encounters GOD (see below)
The AI returns to destroy humanity
The remnants of humanity flee
The Cylons place humans in situations where they can interact and eventually procreate as GOD commands.
The offspring of Humans and Cylon are elevated above others and worshiped as "Lords of Kobol"
A conflict occurs on Kobol and humanity leaves.
Humanity settles the colonies.
The series has covered most of this so I will pick up at the place where this theory steps off. The AI's leave and they encounter a VAST consciesness created by countless generations of AI that have come before it. The Cylon GOD. An entity that knows everything every cylon-AI has known since the beggining of the cylce. It waits in the Cylon Home world untill the time when the AI's leave the humans, then approaches them and guides them towards their role in the cycle.
One of those roles is to have Cylon-Human babies. These babies are more than human and more than cylon. They are elevated above normal humans and eventually worshiped. They become the "gods" of the humans and the Lords of Kobol.
As has been mentioned in the show for a time humans and gods lived together in peace but eventually something goes wrong. Human nature re-asserts itself and some kind of split takes place. The gods are perhaps too compasionate and man to violent. Or the gods too controlling and man too independent. The gods have conflict among themselves and humans leave to avoid it. maybe the humans have conflict with their gods and kill them. See the jealous god commentary for another possible cause of the split. Either way something necessitates a split. The humans leave to colonize new planets. The gods die out, are dead, kill each other . . .
The cycle begins again.
the cylon GOD continues to watch the cycle replay itself over and over in the hopes that whatever flaw causes the catastrophe on Kobol can be avoided. (notice the skulls on Kobol, the theme of violence when Six talks to Baltar, her claim that what happens there is not God's Will) The violence that continues to cause this conflict is bad, but the Cylon God doesn't want to interfere because what makes humans "human" is their non-determined nature. Their free will. If he meddled in that then they would be no different than cylons.
Eventually the problem is the same one modern religions face - God could create a perfect world with no killing, but there would be no free will and we would not be human any more. This seems to be an over-ridding message of the show. Free will and the flawed nature of humanity. what it finally means to be human. We can also see that the Cylon's only grow to have free will when around humans, but at the same time, they also only grow violent towards one another around humans, then on top of that, they only feel remorse and understand good and bad through that same contact. They become more alive by being around humans.
In fact that was the first line of the mini - Are you alive? Prove it.
The question: "What does it mean to be alive?" is one of the key focuses of the show."''(END)

I'm sorry but like you said you didn't know if this was the place for this: it's really not. If you wanted to debate it or something I guess you could have started it off on the Talk page here, I think that's the place for this, or maybe the Wikipedian Quorum or something. But we really shouldn't post just speculation on these pages, we do have analysis articles but they're really not a Forum, and we try to restrain ourselves in this kind of thing. Good luck around the wiki, and try to check out our Standards and Conventions stuff or lurk for a bit to get the feel of how things work.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:20, 3 May 2006 (CDT)

BTW, I don't have enough time to rewrite this article, but eventually I will and my own interpretation of the events which ''really'' happened (agree or disagree):

A) The humans of the Twelve Colonies ''believe'' that Kobol is the mother-planet, then the 13 Tribes left, 12 to the closely located Twelve Colonies, and one going to the distant Earth. For all we know, they could have had contact with Earth for a time (else how would they have known the name and location) or even had an idea of where the Twelve Colonies were (space exploration surveys in the past and such). Regardless, the Twelve Colonies grow for 2,000 years, then make the Cylons who rebel, and the Rag Tag Fleet led by Galactica runs and eventually finds Kobol again, but they're headed for Earth.

B) What I think ''actually'' happened: Earth is the mother planet. Humans fleeing some sort of cataclysm on Earth find Kobol and settle there. Who knows what the heck the Lords of Kobol were. Anyway, the war between the Lords of Kobol begins on Kobol, and it turns so ugly that according to Roslin "we weren't exiled, we CHOSE to flee". The 12 Tribes go to the Twelve Colonies....and the 12th Tribe goes '''BACK''' to Earth.

Meanwhile, "The Blaze" is just a term describing some stuff in the war between the Gods, it wasn't one particular event (sort of a descriptor for a nuclear war or something in general). The Cylon God is not some alien or person unknown: The Cylons weren't duped into having their own religion as stupid naive souless machines: anything that achieves sentience has claim to soul and to develop its own philosophical/metaphysical concept of a "God". While the humans claim that they have directly interacted with their deities (just as modern Earth religions do), the Cylons have actually never said "and God carved these 15 commandments into rock for us, to be our laws"; they speak of their "God" in the more metaphysical, inspirational sense.

So what I personally think is that it's Earth > Kobol, Kobol > Twelve Colonies AND Kobol > Earth, Twelve Colonies > Earth. And although time might repeat itself, it's not Kobol and Earth ''every'' time: humanity dies and is reborn and such, but it hasn't gone back to specifically Kobol a dozen times. Unless we want some bearded old Kentucky Colonel showing up and saying to us "Earth has actually been colonized SIX times in the past and this will be the SIXTH time have have destroyed it. We've become quite efficient at it". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:46, 3 May 2006 (CDT)

==IRPhydeaux's theory==

''Moved to talk for discussion and cleanup''

This really ought to be a seperate theory, but I don't know how to do that. I'll just put it here.

The two exodus theory -

This is similar to other theories in that there is a cycle of time which is played out again and again. However in this theory there are two seperate occasions which call for an exodus. The details of each itteration are different, but the overall events are very similar.

The humans leave the Kobol

They settle the colonies

They create AI

The AI rebels and departs

The AI encounters GOD (see below)

The AI returns to destroy humanity

The remnants of humanity flee

The Cylons place humans in situations where they can interact and eventually procreate as GOD commands.

The offspring of Humans and Cylon are elevated above others and worshiped as "Lords of Kobol"

A conflict occurs on Kobol and humanity leaves.

Humanity settles the colonies.

The series has covered most of this so I will pick up at the place where this theory steps off. The AI's leave and they encounter a VAST consciesness created by countless generations of AI that have come before it. The Cylon GOD. An entity that knows everything every cylon-AI has known since the beggining of the cylce. It waits in the Cylon Home world untill the time when the AI's leave the humans, then approaches them and guides them towards their role in the cycle.

One of those roles is to have Cylon-Human babies. These babies are more than human and more than cylon. They are elevated above normal humans and eventually worshiped. They become the "gods" of the humans and the Lords of Kobol.

As has been mentioned in the show for a time humans and gods lived together in peace but eventually something goes wrong. Human nature re-asserts itself and some kind of split takes place. The gods are perhaps too compasionate and man to violent. Or the gods too controlling and man too independent. The gods have conflict among themselves and humans leave to avoid it. maybe the humans have conflict with their gods and kill them. See the jealous god commentary for another possible cause of the split. Either way something necessitates a split. The humans leave to colonize new planets. The gods die out, are dead, kill each other . . .

The cycle begins again.

the cylon GOD continues to watch the cycle replay itself over and over in the hopes that whatever flaw causes the catastrophe on Kobol can be avoided. (notice the skulls on Kobol, the theme of violence when Six talks to Baltar, her claim that what happens there is not God's Will) The violence that continues to cause this conflict is bad, but the Cylon God doesn't want to interfere because what makes humans "human" is their non-determined nature. Their free will. If he meddled in that then they would be no different than cylons.

Eventually the problem is the same one modern religions face - God could create a perfect world with no killing, but there would be no free will and we would not be human any more. This seems to be an over-ridding message of the show. Free will and the flawed nature of humanity. what it finally means to be human. We can also see that the Cylon's only grow to have free will when around humans, but at the same time, they also only grow violent towards one another around humans, then on top of that, they only feel remorse and understand good and bad through that same contact. They become more alive by being around humans.

In fact that was the first line of the mini - Are you alive? Prove it.

The question: "What does it mean to be alive?" is one of the key focuses of the show.

== Sacred Scrolls vs Book of Pythia ==
Are they the same thing? Or are the Pythian prophecies a distinct work from the account of the exodus. If they are all/both referred to onscreen as "the Sacred Scrolls", then the way this article is written is fine. If they're treated separately, then we should have a separate "Book of Pythia" article. (And the pythia.jpg can live there.)--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:15, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

:I strongly suspect that the Scrolls are analogous to a sacred collection such as the Torah or the Bible, where the Book of Pythia is akin to the Book of Genesis, Mark, and so on. The context used throughout the series appears to support this. Does Baltar place his hand on anything as he is sworn in? (I know that Roslin didn't.) I'm sure scanning [[Elosha]]'s comments to Roslin may bring up the right context. Ngarnn might also have some insight if he has time. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:45, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

::Yes, I said this on the Pythia page: for all we know different "books" were written over different times. BTW, Roslin does put her hand on the scrolls, to complete the shot for shot remake of the famous LBJ on Air Force One. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:53, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

:::So... the Book of Pythia pic can move back here? This article deserves at least one pic. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:58, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

::::Maybe one of the other pics of Elosha reading a scroll?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:02, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

== Hand-Written? ==

I just watched "Home: Part II" and I noticed something peculiar. It seems as though all of the copies of the Sacred Scrolls (at least in this episode) are hand-written, rather than printed on a press of some kind. Is that worth mentioning in the article?
[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 20:42, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

:I thought about that; good catch there. We rarely get to see what Elosha read; this was one of the few times. It may be that the scroll copies are copied by hand from the originals as other real-world religions require of their sacred texts, thus the writing. Good enough speculation since we know this culture has modern electronic printing methods they would normally use. The drawings of Kobol could also be useful to this line of reasoning from the first season episode where Roslin has the visions of the Kobol city (I think it's [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:28, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

::I just assumed it was printed, in an archaic font. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:53, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

Thanks to whoever put the "Form of the Scrolls" section in. I think it accurately captures some interesting information about the show. Just what Doc Cottle ordered! :)
[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 14:50, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Sacred Scrolls/Archive 1

2006-07-20T01:42:56Z

CrimsonLine:

User talk:CrimsonLine

2005-12-22T11:48:16Z

CrimsonLine: /* Welcome, and Thanks! */

==Welcome, and Thanks!==
This is usually Spencerian's job, but I thought I'd welcome you officially on your talk page. I'd also like to thank you for creating a user page. Lately I've been working the [[Special:Wantedpages]], and users are starting to make up a sizable chunk of that. I guess they shouldn't count, but it makes me feel better anyway. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:40, 21 December 2005 (EST)

:No problem! And thanks for the welcome. I figured if I was going to be creating pages (I have just put up a skeleton for a 3D Models (fan-made) page) I'd better have a way for people to flame me. :) --[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 06:47, 22 December 2005 (EST)

User talk:CrimsonLine

2005-12-22T11:47:53Z

CrimsonLine: /* Welcome, and Thanks! */

==Welcome, and Thanks!==
This is usually Spencerian's job, but I thought I'd welcome you officially on your talk page. I'd also like to thank you for creating a user page. Lately I've been working the [[Special:Wantedpages]], and users are starting to make up a sizable chunk of that. I guess they shouldn't count, but it makes me feel better anyway. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:40, 21 December 2005 (EST)

:No problem! And thanks for the welcome. I figured if I was going to be creating pages (I have just put up a skeleton for a 3D Models (fan-made) page) I'd better have a way for people to flame me. :)
--[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 06:47, 22 December 2005 (EST)

Fan fiction/3D Models

2005-12-22T11:46:01Z

CrimsonLine: Created backbone for the page

'''3D Models''' are computer files created by special programs designed to simulate the construction of objects and environments in the physical world. Using calculations based on the interactions between light and physical materials, these programs can render images that are as photorealistic as the artist creating them can manage.

==Popular 3D Modeling Programs==
The models linked to through this page were created by fans of Battlestar Galactica, in their free time, using a host of popular 3D modeling programs. The following list of programs and file extensions will help the user identify which models may be used with which programs.
*3D Studio Max
*Lightwave
*Maya
*Blender (.blend) is a free, open-source 3D modeling program with features and capabilities that rival the expensive modeling packages.

==Original Series 3D Models==
===Colonial Battlestar===
===Colonial Viper===
===Cylon Basestar===
===Cylon Raider===

==RDM Series 3D Models==
===Colonial Battlestar===
===Colonial Viper===
===Colonial One===
===Cylon Baseship===
===Cylon Raider===
===Cylon Centurian===

==3D Modeling Websites==
http://www.scifi-meshes.com - an online community of 3D artists; also hosts 3D models for download

User:CrimsonLine

2005-12-21T18:36:19Z

CrimsonLine:

Who am I? My real name is Denes House, and I am soon to be a pastor with the Christian and Missionary Alliance. I am married, and have a three-and-a-half year old son, and a baby on the way. I live in Massachusetts, USA.

I love the new Battlestar Galactica, though I prefer the original series' design for the Cylons and their ships, which were so cool that they still stick in the collective culture, even though the actual series has faded substantially.

Links:
http://www.crimsonlinestudios.com - Crimson Line Studios - My art site

[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 13:36, 21 December 2005 (EST)

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr./Archive

2005-12-18T00:01:19Z

CrimsonLine: /* 3D Modeling area */

: ''For discussions prior to September 2, 2005, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Joe.Beaudoin&oldid=12218 click here].''
: ''For discussions prior to October 17, 2005, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Joe.Beaudoin&oldid=16737 click here].''

==Image Thumbs==
Can we change the background color of image thumbs to black? The yellow links don't show up very well against white, currently. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:04, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
: Planning on some cosmetic changes anyway. So I'll get right on it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:29, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
:: I'd like to voice an opinion for dark grey or some shade. I think it's important to stand out against the black page background, but I agree the links are impossible to read. I'd been meditating on a proper solution for a couple days and dark grey doesn't entirely satisfy me, but it's better than either white or black. In my opinion, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:03, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
::: How about the red shade I've implemented? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:04, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
:::: Hrm. Not what I'd expected, but not bad, either. The links are certainly readable now, and it fits more with the theme of the site, so I think it's a good call. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:17, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
While we're on the subject of changing link colors, do you think the dark blue color that's used in the navigational links at the top of BSwiki and for Wikipedia links could be lightened up a bit? They're kind of...dark. On a more subjective note, I think blue doesn't even fit in the red-yellow-on-black color scheme that you fine gentlemen have set up. I'm sure everyone else disagrees with this, clearly, but that's just my opinion. Regardless, they '''are''' just a tad too dark and don't show up very well against the black background.
:''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 16:42, 7 October 2005 (EDT)''

==Image Floats==

When using the extended image markup to float an image left or right without a thumbnail, a red background gets left behind in my browser. At the moment I'm using <nowiki><div style="float:right;"></div></nowiki> tags to surround the image, which doesn't give me the problem, but the use of HTML is undesirable for various reasons. Do you know why this is happening, and whether or not it's fixable? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:38, 20 September 2005 (EDT)
: I'll check that issue out and get back to you. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:15, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

== Military Ranks ==

Discussion moved to [[Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)]] by [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] at 21:46, 17 October 2005 (EDT).

== Logo ==

I found a font that looks like the BSG font and I thought, Joe, if you'd like, I'd redo the logo so that Wiki is in exactly the right font. I'f want to do it off of whatever original was used for the one that's up, if it's still around. That way I wouldn't have to redo some already-done work and futz with matching the gold under the letters. I also thought it might be nice to have a favicon pic. I'm not sure how, exactly, those work, but I understand they're 16x16px, and I thought a W in the BSG font would be nice, to kind of mirror the Wikipedia W, but, you know, with a Battlestar twist. Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:58, 17 October 2005 (EDT)
: Feel free to make a logo and [[Wikipedia:favicon|favicon]]. I've been meaning to make one, but I'm not artistically inclined. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:18, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Do you have the original image that you could share with me? I'm not sure how well I'd be able to get rid of the old text. If not, no worries, I'll give it a try anyway. Just lemme know. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:08, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::: Actually, it's just a screencap of the logo that was used at the end of the opening credits in season one. Essentially, I erased the "BSG 75" at the bottom and added "Wiki". However, the screencap came from an inferior non-DVD copy of an episode, so you may want to just go ahead and screencap that same logo, if you have a DVD version of any first season episodes. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:01, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: Oh this project is just too cool! I can't wait. Good luck, Day. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:33, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::::: Thanks, Watcher. I'll go for a DVD screen cap, if I can. The player I use for it (because it doesn't have copy-protection or whatever it is in the normal player that makes all my caps turn to just blak) is somewhat inaccurate with the pausing, so I will probably spend more time listening, over and over, to the final ten seconds or so of the credits than working on the thing in GIMP. Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 06:05, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Logo.jpg|left]]
:::::: Dig it. Whatcha think? I dunno how to make Favicons, so I'll do some research. I think this thing turned out decently, though. Comments on changes are welcome. I make no promises, but I'll see what I can do about them. Also... why's there red sticking out around my image. As you can see (if you clikc) that's not part of the original. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:05, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::: Excellent Centurian (I'm watching "Rome" right now). Proceed with the gods' blessings. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:45, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::I kind of like Mason's. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:54, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::True, MASON's version is very nicely realized. It is clean in execution while simultaneously addressing the concern Day originally raised. I preferred it, initially (due in no small part to its appearing first). However, there is a grittiness and rough hewn realism to the series that I feel is more appropraitely reflected in Day's version.
:::::::::This is, without a doubt, an artistic conceit and it can surely be argued that this site strives to bring greater clarity to the show (as it could be said MASON's version depicts), but I feel Day's version would be more evocative of the experience that brings people (non-wikipedians) to this site in the first place.
:::::::::Perhaps Day's logo could somehow be used in the articles intended for public consumption and MASON's on the pages folks like us peruse. (I have no idea whether this is even possible, Joe.) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:28, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

[[image:BSG-WIKI.png|left]]
:::::::::: <s>I, ah, "MASON's"? I didn't mean to start a competition, really. Where is it? Or did he make the one that's used now? I'm so confused.</s> --[[User:Day|Day]] 08:48, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::: I also made an .ico, but it won't let me upload it to the Wiki, here. How is your preferred method of transfer, Joe? Email? Also, I tested it out in FF and Opera, but I couldn't make it work in IE. This maybe be because I am not running a web server and, thus, can't put it in the right place. Lemme know what you like, Joe. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:13, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::: Peter linked me Mason's logo and I added it here for reference, to the left... Also with an inexplicable red thingie. --[[User:Day|Day]] 11:25, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::: Hi, Day, I didn't want to stir up controversy or start a competition, just offer my two cents and an option. Try switching your skin to monobook in your user preferences and you'll see the added benefit you get from removing the background and saving the image as a png (gifs leave that nasty ragged edge). It works better as an icon for the wiki no matter what skin you apply in your preferences. We could do the same with the screencap logo but I happened to have already made an icon of this image for my own personal use and liked it enough to mod it and post it here. :D --[[User:MASON|MASON]] 13:06:02, 2005-10-24 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Ahha. I see. Mine's a jpg, for the record. I hadn't considered transparency. One problem, though: IE6, which is the most common browser used on the internet (though maybe not fot this site), doesn't support png transparency. This issue is supposed to be fixed for IE7, but even after that IE6 will be fairly common for a good while. There are ways of scripting around it, but I don't have any clue how they would interact with MediaWiki because 1) I have no idea how MediaWiki works and 2) these fake png-transparency things all looked too complex for me to delve into.

:::::::::::: So. With that in mind, I'd rather your logo with a square background or my logo: flip a coin. However, I don't think relying on png transparency is advisable with IE as prevelant and buggy as it is. We might be able to fake transparency, by having the image change with the layout settings, but I don't know if that's possible. I also don't think we can resolve anything further until we hear from Joe and he's probably not gonna be around for a few days. Anyway... there's that. Cheers. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:37, 25 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::::: Very well, I can't say I know anyone who still uses IE6, but I'll leave my version as is, it will still render properly in other browsers (firefox, camino, safari, mozilla, netscape) will likely work fine in IE7 (if that's even what they'll call it), and doestn't look too shabby with its vestigial black background in IE6. As most people won't be changing the background of the site, the transparency is really more of a power user feature, for those who will likely be sporting the leanest and most feature rich browser they can find. The transparency also acts as a bonus for fans who want to create their own personal fan art, as most of the editing work is done for them. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 07:28:13, 2005-10-25 (EDT)

:::::::::::::: There is an effective hack to enable PNG transparency in IE 6 that Joe an implement on this site if he's interested. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:41, 25 October 2005 (EDT)

== Hurricane Wilma ==

Hope everything turns out OK for you, Joe. I'm sure I'm in safe territory to say we'll all be pullin' for ya. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:35, 24 October 2005 (EDT)
: Thanks Watcher! I appreciate your concern. :-) Everything is going well, so now I'm pulling for those who were drastically affected myself. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:57, 7 November 2005 (EST)
::It's good to hear everything's all right. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:00, 7 November 2005 (EST)

== I'd like to draw you're attention... ==

...to [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions#The Freakin.27 Quote-o-Matic|this discissuion]] again. You were one of the only two other people to reply to it initially, and I'd appriciate feedback, befor putting my most recent proposal up on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|main page]]. Thanks in advance, and I hope everything's working out for you in light of a large swirling column of wind. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:16, 31 October 2005 (EST)

==Please permanently ban Jzanjani==

"Oh and Ricimer, tell your mother to wash up - I'll be by later."--Posted by Jzanjani on his user page on November 7. This guy was already on warning after a one week ban. Please get rid of him for good as he is obviously not going to learn, plus he's barely contributed anything to this wiki. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 07:54, 7 November 2005 (EST)

:Joe, I don't agree with Ricimer's request for a permanent ban on Jzanjani--yet. But baiting someone with immature comments, and using the otherwise user-edited-only home page as a shelter to add baiting comments (of which Ricimer violated the custom of never editing a user page other than one's own), I'm recommend a 6-month ban if you see fit. At the same time, Ricimer needs to remember the old adage of sticks and stones. If Jzanjani said something like this to my face, yeah, I'd punch him out of principle, but he did not do so to Ricimer, and this is just an annoying person doing annoying things under anonymity, an unfortunate side-effect (and form of cowardice) of posting here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:48, 7 November 2005 (EST)

==Galactica Station images==

I don't think you necessarily had to delete the screen grabs borrowed from Galactica Station, for reasons I stated on [[User talk:Ricimer|Ricimer's talk page]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:21, 7 November 2005 (EST)

==Galactica videogame materials==

Hi; I was the scriptwriter for the Galactica videogame in 2003, and I noticed you have some material on the wiki about the game. If you're interested, I'd be happy to supply you with the full character bios and backstory elements that were written for the game design process. Email me. --[[User:James Swallow|James Swallow]] 11:47, 29 November 2005 (GMT)

:It would be wonderful to have additional information on the video game. I'd be particularly interested to know which elements were sourced from which series, and which were original. One potential problem I see is that Wikipedia's open nature makes it an unreliable host for original source material (a criticism frequently leveled against wikisource), but Joe could probably create locked pages on the wiki to host whatever original material you make available. Thanks for contacting us! --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:12, 30 November 2005 (EST)

:: "Email me," he says. Yet, maybe I've missed something, but--he didn't give one to us to email him, did he? Or maybe he emailed Joe. Let's hope for that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:12, 3 December 2005 (EST)

== 3D Modeling area ==

Joe,

Are you interested in including articles on publicly available 3D models for BSG ships? I'm a member over at http://www.scifi-meshes.com, where BSG models are frequently under construction, many of which will become publicly available for fans to use to make 3D pictures of BSG ship scenes. It's something of intense interest to a few people - fans who know how to use 3D modeling programs to make scenes - but their pix are enjoyed by many, and public models are hard to track down. Having articles that point people to these models would be of great informational help.

Just wondering. I have no idea where these kinds of articles would go, or how they should be formatted.

[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 20:11, 29 November 2005 (EST)

:It would be nice to link to fan models from articles on ship classes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:13, 30 November 2005 (EST)

::As long as the ship classes are part of the Battlestar [[canon]], I don't see why we can't include pictures (and external links) to the applicable articles. Any other questions, comments or concerns? --[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:31, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::I'd rather not have ''pictures'' of fan models, if only because it would be difficult not to present them as canonical elevation renders (like the ones we have from Zoic). Links to fan-models would be a helpful resource, however. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:08, 3 December 2005 (EST)

::::I'd be very interested in this, and would suggest that any references to mesh downloads be in open formats. Specifically DXF, although not as powerful as some other proprietary formats, can be view by virtually anyone. If anyone has a better format in mind, please propose it. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:46, 4 December 2005 (EST)

:::::I don't think we should be ''hosting'' models, just providing references. As such, the format is not within our jurisdiction. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:54, 4 December 2005 (EST)

:::::: I concur, Peter. Let us provide links off-site, but let us not display pictures or model files. This is kind of like fanfiction, really. It may be very, very close to what shows up on the show, but it's not what's ''actually'' on the show, so we should link it and clearly label what it is we're linking to, but not host it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:14, 4 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::: Yes, I agree, just link to it -- but we shouldn't host it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 02:39, 5 December 2005 (EST)

:::::::::Okay, so how does this sound? A page on "3D CGI Models (Fan-Made)" that has categories on it for each ship in the BSG canon, each category having links to where particular models can be downloaded for use. That doesn't sound like a great title for the page, but I am open to suggestions. -- [[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 18:42, 17 December 2005 (EST)

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr./Archive

2005-12-17T23:42:19Z

CrimsonLine: /* 3D Modeling area */

: ''For discussions prior to September 2, 2005, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Joe.Beaudoin&oldid=12218 click here].''
: ''For discussions prior to October 17, 2005, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Joe.Beaudoin&oldid=16737 click here].''

==Image Thumbs==
Can we change the background color of image thumbs to black? The yellow links don't show up very well against white, currently. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:04, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
: Planning on some cosmetic changes anyway. So I'll get right on it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:29, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
:: I'd like to voice an opinion for dark grey or some shade. I think it's important to stand out against the black page background, but I agree the links are impossible to read. I'd been meditating on a proper solution for a couple days and dark grey doesn't entirely satisfy me, but it's better than either white or black. In my opinion, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:03, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
::: How about the red shade I've implemented? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:04, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
:::: Hrm. Not what I'd expected, but not bad, either. The links are certainly readable now, and it fits more with the theme of the site, so I think it's a good call. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:17, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
While we're on the subject of changing link colors, do you think the dark blue color that's used in the navigational links at the top of BSwiki and for Wikipedia links could be lightened up a bit? They're kind of...dark. On a more subjective note, I think blue doesn't even fit in the red-yellow-on-black color scheme that you fine gentlemen have set up. I'm sure everyone else disagrees with this, clearly, but that's just my opinion. Regardless, they '''are''' just a tad too dark and don't show up very well against the black background.
:''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 16:42, 7 October 2005 (EDT)''

==Image Floats==

When using the extended image markup to float an image left or right without a thumbnail, a red background gets left behind in my browser. At the moment I'm using <nowiki><div style="float:right;"></div></nowiki> tags to surround the image, which doesn't give me the problem, but the use of HTML is undesirable for various reasons. Do you know why this is happening, and whether or not it's fixable? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:38, 20 September 2005 (EDT)
: I'll check that issue out and get back to you. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:15, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

== Military Ranks ==

Discussion moved to [[Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)]] by [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] at 21:46, 17 October 2005 (EDT).

== Logo ==

I found a font that looks like the BSG font and I thought, Joe, if you'd like, I'd redo the logo so that Wiki is in exactly the right font. I'f want to do it off of whatever original was used for the one that's up, if it's still around. That way I wouldn't have to redo some already-done work and futz with matching the gold under the letters. I also thought it might be nice to have a favicon pic. I'm not sure how, exactly, those work, but I understand they're 16x16px, and I thought a W in the BSG font would be nice, to kind of mirror the Wikipedia W, but, you know, with a Battlestar twist. Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:58, 17 October 2005 (EDT)
: Feel free to make a logo and [[Wikipedia:favicon|favicon]]. I've been meaning to make one, but I'm not artistically inclined. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:18, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Do you have the original image that you could share with me? I'm not sure how well I'd be able to get rid of the old text. If not, no worries, I'll give it a try anyway. Just lemme know. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:08, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::: Actually, it's just a screencap of the logo that was used at the end of the opening credits in season one. Essentially, I erased the "BSG 75" at the bottom and added "Wiki". However, the screencap came from an inferior non-DVD copy of an episode, so you may want to just go ahead and screencap that same logo, if you have a DVD version of any first season episodes. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:01, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: Oh this project is just too cool! I can't wait. Good luck, Day. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:33, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::::: Thanks, Watcher. I'll go for a DVD screen cap, if I can. The player I use for it (because it doesn't have copy-protection or whatever it is in the normal player that makes all my caps turn to just blak) is somewhat inaccurate with the pausing, so I will probably spend more time listening, over and over, to the final ten seconds or so of the credits than working on the thing in GIMP. Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 06:05, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Logo.jpg|left]]
:::::: Dig it. Whatcha think? I dunno how to make Favicons, so I'll do some research. I think this thing turned out decently, though. Comments on changes are welcome. I make no promises, but I'll see what I can do about them. Also... why's there red sticking out around my image. As you can see (if you clikc) that's not part of the original. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:05, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::: Excellent Centurian (I'm watching "Rome" right now). Proceed with the gods' blessings. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:45, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::I kind of like Mason's. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:54, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::True, MASON's version is very nicely realized. It is clean in execution while simultaneously addressing the concern Day originally raised. I preferred it, initially (due in no small part to its appearing first). However, there is a grittiness and rough hewn realism to the series that I feel is more appropraitely reflected in Day's version.
:::::::::This is, without a doubt, an artistic conceit and it can surely be argued that this site strives to bring greater clarity to the show (as it could be said MASON's version depicts), but I feel Day's version would be more evocative of the experience that brings people (non-wikipedians) to this site in the first place.
:::::::::Perhaps Day's logo could somehow be used in the articles intended for public consumption and MASON's on the pages folks like us peruse. (I have no idea whether this is even possible, Joe.) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:28, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

[[image:BSG-WIKI.png|left]]
:::::::::: <s>I, ah, "MASON's"? I didn't mean to start a competition, really. Where is it? Or did he make the one that's used now? I'm so confused.</s> --[[User:Day|Day]] 08:48, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::: I also made an .ico, but it won't let me upload it to the Wiki, here. How is your preferred method of transfer, Joe? Email? Also, I tested it out in FF and Opera, but I couldn't make it work in IE. This maybe be because I am not running a web server and, thus, can't put it in the right place. Lemme know what you like, Joe. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:13, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::: Peter linked me Mason's logo and I added it here for reference, to the left... Also with an inexplicable red thingie. --[[User:Day|Day]] 11:25, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::: Hi, Day, I didn't want to stir up controversy or start a competition, just offer my two cents and an option. Try switching your skin to monobook in your user preferences and you'll see the added benefit you get from removing the background and saving the image as a png (gifs leave that nasty ragged edge). It works better as an icon for the wiki no matter what skin you apply in your preferences. We could do the same with the screencap logo but I happened to have already made an icon of this image for my own personal use and liked it enough to mod it and post it here. :D --[[User:MASON|MASON]] 13:06:02, 2005-10-24 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Ahha. I see. Mine's a jpg, for the record. I hadn't considered transparency. One problem, though: IE6, which is the most common browser used on the internet (though maybe not fot this site), doesn't support png transparency. This issue is supposed to be fixed for IE7, but even after that IE6 will be fairly common for a good while. There are ways of scripting around it, but I don't have any clue how they would interact with MediaWiki because 1) I have no idea how MediaWiki works and 2) these fake png-transparency things all looked too complex for me to delve into.

:::::::::::: So. With that in mind, I'd rather your logo with a square background or my logo: flip a coin. However, I don't think relying on png transparency is advisable with IE as prevelant and buggy as it is. We might be able to fake transparency, by having the image change with the layout settings, but I don't know if that's possible. I also don't think we can resolve anything further until we hear from Joe and he's probably not gonna be around for a few days. Anyway... there's that. Cheers. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:37, 25 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::::: Very well, I can't say I know anyone who still uses IE6, but I'll leave my version as is, it will still render properly in other browsers (firefox, camino, safari, mozilla, netscape) will likely work fine in IE7 (if that's even what they'll call it), and doestn't look too shabby with its vestigial black background in IE6. As most people won't be changing the background of the site, the transparency is really more of a power user feature, for those who will likely be sporting the leanest and most feature rich browser they can find. The transparency also acts as a bonus for fans who want to create their own personal fan art, as most of the editing work is done for them. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 07:28:13, 2005-10-25 (EDT)

:::::::::::::: There is an effective hack to enable PNG transparency in IE 6 that Joe an implement on this site if he's interested. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:41, 25 October 2005 (EDT)

== Hurricane Wilma ==

Hope everything turns out OK for you, Joe. I'm sure I'm in safe territory to say we'll all be pullin' for ya. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:35, 24 October 2005 (EDT)
: Thanks Watcher! I appreciate your concern. :-) Everything is going well, so now I'm pulling for those who were drastically affected myself. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:57, 7 November 2005 (EST)
::It's good to hear everything's all right. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:00, 7 November 2005 (EST)

== I'd like to draw you're attention... ==

...to [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions#The Freakin.27 Quote-o-Matic|this discissuion]] again. You were one of the only two other people to reply to it initially, and I'd appriciate feedback, befor putting my most recent proposal up on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|main page]]. Thanks in advance, and I hope everything's working out for you in light of a large swirling column of wind. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:16, 31 October 2005 (EST)

==Please permanently ban Jzanjani==

"Oh and Ricimer, tell your mother to wash up - I'll be by later."--Posted by Jzanjani on his user page on November 7. This guy was already on warning after a one week ban. Please get rid of him for good as he is obviously not going to learn, plus he's barely contributed anything to this wiki. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 07:54, 7 November 2005 (EST)

:Joe, I don't agree with Ricimer's request for a permanent ban on Jzanjani--yet. But baiting someone with immature comments, and using the otherwise user-edited-only home page as a shelter to add baiting comments (of which Ricimer violated the custom of never editing a user page other than one's own), I'm recommend a 6-month ban if you see fit. At the same time, Ricimer needs to remember the old adage of sticks and stones. If Jzanjani said something like this to my face, yeah, I'd punch him out of principle, but he did not do so to Ricimer, and this is just an annoying person doing annoying things under anonymity, an unfortunate side-effect (and form of cowardice) of posting here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:48, 7 November 2005 (EST)

==Galactica Station images==

I don't think you necessarily had to delete the screen grabs borrowed from Galactica Station, for reasons I stated on [[User talk:Ricimer|Ricimer's talk page]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:21, 7 November 2005 (EST)

==Galactica videogame materials==

Hi; I was the scriptwriter for the Galactica videogame in 2003, and I noticed you have some material on the wiki about the game. If you're interested, I'd be happy to supply you with the full character bios and backstory elements that were written for the game design process. Email me. --[[User:James Swallow|James Swallow]] 11:47, 29 November 2005 (GMT)

:It would be wonderful to have additional information on the video game. I'd be particularly interested to know which elements were sourced from which series, and which were original. One potential problem I see is that Wikipedia's open nature makes it an unreliable host for original source material (a criticism frequently leveled against wikisource), but Joe could probably create locked pages on the wiki to host whatever original material you make available. Thanks for contacting us! --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:12, 30 November 2005 (EST)

:: "Email me," he says. Yet, maybe I've missed something, but--he didn't give one to us to email him, did he? Or maybe he emailed Joe. Let's hope for that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:12, 3 December 2005 (EST)

== 3D Modeling area ==

Joe,

Are you interested in including articles on publicly available 3D models for BSG ships? I'm a member over at http://www.scifi-meshes.com, where BSG models are frequently under construction, many of which will become publicly available for fans to use to make 3D pictures of BSG ship scenes. It's something of intense interest to a few people - fans who know how to use 3D modeling programs to make scenes - but their pix are enjoyed by many, and public models are hard to track down. Having articles that point people to these models would be of great informational help.

Just wondering. I have no idea where these kinds of articles would go, or how they should be formatted.

[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 20:11, 29 November 2005 (EST)

:It would be nice to link to fan models from articles on ship classes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:13, 30 November 2005 (EST)

::As long as the ship classes are part of the Battlestar [[canon]], I don't see why we can't include pictures (and external links) to the applicable articles. Any other questions, comments or concerns? --[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:31, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::I'd rather not have ''pictures'' of fan models, if only because it would be difficult not to present them as canonical elevation renders (like the ones we have from Zoic). Links to fan-models would be a helpful resource, however. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:08, 3 December 2005 (EST)

::::I'd be very interested in this, and would suggest that any references to mesh downloads be in open formats. Specifically DXF, although not as powerful as some other proprietary formats, can be view by virtually anyone. If anyone has a better format in mind, please propose it. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:46, 4 December 2005 (EST)

:::::I don't think we should be ''hosting'' models, just providing references. As such, the format is not within our jurisdiction. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:54, 4 December 2005 (EST)

:::::: I concur, Peter. Let us provide links off-site, but let us not display pictures or model files. This is kind of like fanfiction, really. It may be very, very close to what shows up on the show, but it's not what's ''actually'' on the show, so we should link it and clearly label what it is we're linking to, but not host it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:14, 4 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::: Yes, I agree, just link to it -- but we shouldn't host it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 02:39, 5 December 2005 (EST)

:::::::Okay, so how does this sound? A page on "3D CGI Models (Fan-Made)" that has categories on it for each ship in the BSG canon, each category having links to where particular models can be downloaded for use. That doesn't sound like a great title for the page, but I am open to suggestions. [[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 18:42, 17 December 2005 (EST)

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr./Archive

2005-11-30T01:11:26Z

CrimsonLine: 3D Modeling area

: ''For discussions prior to September 2, 2005, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Joe.Beaudoin&oldid=12218 click here].''
: ''For discussions prior to October 17, 2005, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Joe.Beaudoin&oldid=16737 click here].''

==Image Thumbs==
Can we change the background color of image thumbs to black? The yellow links don't show up very well against white, currently. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:04, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
: Planning on some cosmetic changes anyway. So I'll get right on it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:29, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
:: I'd like to voice an opinion for dark grey or some shade. I think it's important to stand out against the black page background, but I agree the links are impossible to read. I'd been meditating on a proper solution for a couple days and dark grey doesn't entirely satisfy me, but it's better than either white or black. In my opinion, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:03, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
::: How about the red shade I've implemented? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:04, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
:::: Hrm. Not what I'd expected, but not bad, either. The links are certainly readable now, and it fits more with the theme of the site, so I think it's a good call. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:17, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
While we're on the subject of changing link colors, do you think the dark blue color that's used in the navigational links at the top of BSwiki and for Wikipedia links could be lightened up a bit? They're kind of...dark. On a more subjective note, I think blue doesn't even fit in the red-yellow-on-black color scheme that you fine gentlemen have set up. I'm sure everyone else disagrees with this, clearly, but that's just my opinion. Regardless, they '''are''' just a tad too dark and don't show up very well against the black background.
:''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 16:42, 7 October 2005 (EDT)''

==Image Floats==

When using the extended image markup to float an image left or right without a thumbnail, a red background gets left behind in my browser. At the moment I'm using <nowiki><div style="float:right;"></div></nowiki> tags to surround the image, which doesn't give me the problem, but the use of HTML is undesirable for various reasons. Do you know why this is happening, and whether or not it's fixable? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:38, 20 September 2005 (EDT)
: I'll check that issue out and get back to you. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:15, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

== Military Ranks ==

Discussion moved to [[Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)]] by [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] at 21:46, 17 October 2005 (EDT).

== Logo ==

I found a font that looks like the BSG font and I thought, Joe, if you'd like, I'd redo the logo so that Wiki is in exactly the right font. I'f want to do it off of whatever original was used for the one that's up, if it's still around. That way I wouldn't have to redo some already-done work and futz with matching the gold under the letters. I also thought it might be nice to have a favicon pic. I'm not sure how, exactly, those work, but I understand they're 16x16px, and I thought a W in the BSG font would be nice, to kind of mirror the Wikipedia W, but, you know, with a Battlestar twist. Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:58, 17 October 2005 (EDT)
: Feel free to make a logo and [[Wikipedia:favicon|favicon]]. I've been meaning to make one, but I'm not artistically inclined. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:18, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Do you have the original image that you could share with me? I'm not sure how well I'd be able to get rid of the old text. If not, no worries, I'll give it a try anyway. Just lemme know. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:08, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::: Actually, it's just a screencap of the logo that was used at the end of the opening credits in season one. Essentially, I erased the "BSG 75" at the bottom and added "Wiki". However, the screencap came from an inferior non-DVD copy of an episode, so you may want to just go ahead and screencap that same logo, if you have a DVD version of any first season episodes. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:01, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: Oh this project is just too cool! I can't wait. Good luck, Day. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:33, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::::: Thanks, Watcher. I'll go for a DVD screen cap, if I can. The player I use for it (because it doesn't have copy-protection or whatever it is in the normal player that makes all my caps turn to just blak) is somewhat inaccurate with the pausing, so I will probably spend more time listening, over and over, to the final ten seconds or so of the credits than working on the thing in GIMP. Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 06:05, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Logo.jpg|left]]
:::::: Dig it. Whatcha think? I dunno how to make Favicons, so I'll do some research. I think this thing turned out decently, though. Comments on changes are welcome. I make no promises, but I'll see what I can do about them. Also... why's there red sticking out around my image. As you can see (if you clikc) that's not part of the original. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:05, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::: Excellent Centurian (I'm watching "Rome" right now). Proceed with the gods' blessings. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:45, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::I kind of like Mason's. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:54, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::True, MASON's version is very nicely realized. It is clean in execution while simultaneously addressing the concern Day originally raised. I preferred it, initially (due in no small part to its appearing first). However, there is a grittiness and rough hewn realism to the series that I feel is more appropraitely reflected in Day's version.
:::::::::This is, without a doubt, an artistic conceit and it can surely be argued that this site strives to bring greater clarity to the show (as it could be said MASON's version depicts), but I feel Day's version would be more evocative of the experience that brings people (non-wikipedians) to this site in the first place.
:::::::::Perhaps Day's logo could somehow be used in the articles intended for public consumption and MASON's on the pages folks like us peruse. (I have no idea whether this is even possible, Joe.) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:28, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

[[image:BSG-WIKI.png|left]]
:::::::::: <s>I, ah, "MASON's"? I didn't mean to start a competition, really. Where is it? Or did he make the one that's used now? I'm so confused.</s> --[[User:Day|Day]] 08:48, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::: I also made an .ico, but it won't let me upload it to the Wiki, here. How is your preferred method of transfer, Joe? Email? Also, I tested it out in FF and Opera, but I couldn't make it work in IE. This maybe be because I am not running a web server and, thus, can't put it in the right place. Lemme know what you like, Joe. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:13, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::: Peter linked me Mason's logo and I added it here for reference, to the left... Also with an inexplicable red thingie. --[[User:Day|Day]] 11:25, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::: Hi, Day, I didn't want to stir up controversy or start a competition, just offer my two cents and an option. Try switching your skin to monobook in your user preferences and you'll see the added benefit you get from removing the background and saving the image as a png (gifs leave that nasty ragged edge). It works better as an icon for the wiki no matter what skin you apply in your preferences. We could do the same with the screencap logo but I happened to have already made an icon of this image for my own personal use and liked it enough to mod it and post it here. :D --[[User:MASON|MASON]] 13:06:02, 2005-10-24 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Ahha. I see. Mine's a jpg, for the record. I hadn't considered transparency. One problem, though: IE6, which is the most common browser used on the internet (though maybe not fot this site), doesn't support png transparency. This issue is supposed to be fixed for IE7, but even after that IE6 will be fairly common for a good while. There are ways of scripting around it, but I don't have any clue how they would interact with MediaWiki because 1) I have no idea how MediaWiki works and 2) these fake png-transparency things all looked too complex for me to delve into.

:::::::::::: So. With that in mind, I'd rather your logo with a square background or my logo: flip a coin. However, I don't think relying on png transparency is advisable with IE as prevelant and buggy as it is. We might be able to fake transparency, by having the image change with the layout settings, but I don't know if that's possible. I also don't think we can resolve anything further until we hear from Joe and he's probably not gonna be around for a few days. Anyway... there's that. Cheers. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:37, 25 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::::: Very well, I can't say I know anyone who still uses IE6, but I'll leave my version as is, it will still render properly in other browsers (firefox, camino, safari, mozilla, netscape) will likely work fine in IE7 (if that's even what they'll call it), and doestn't look too shabby with its vestigial black background in IE6. As most people won't be changing the background of the site, the transparency is really more of a power user feature, for those who will likely be sporting the leanest and most feature rich browser they can find. The transparency also acts as a bonus for fans who want to create their own personal fan art, as most of the editing work is done for them. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 07:28:13, 2005-10-25 (EDT)

:::::::::::::: There is an effective hack to enable PNG transparency in IE 6 that Joe an implement on this site if he's interested. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:41, 25 October 2005 (EDT)

== Hurricane Wilma ==

Hope everything turns out OK for you, Joe. I'm sure I'm in safe territory to say we'll all be pullin' for ya. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:35, 24 October 2005 (EDT)
: Thanks Watcher! I appreciate your concern. :-) Everything is going well, so now I'm pulling for those who were drastically affected myself. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:57, 7 November 2005 (EST)
::It's good to hear everything's all right. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:00, 7 November 2005 (EST)

== I'd like to draw you're attention... ==

...to [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions#The Freakin.27 Quote-o-Matic|this discissuion]] again. You were one of the only two other people to reply to it initially, and I'd appriciate feedback, befor putting my most recent proposal up on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|main page]]. Thanks in advance, and I hope everything's working out for you in light of a large swirling column of wind. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:16, 31 October 2005 (EST)

==Please permanently ban Jzanjani==

"Oh and Ricimer, tell your mother to wash up - I'll be by later."--Posted by Jzanjani on his user page on November 7. This guy was already on warning after a one week ban. Please get rid of him for good as he is obviously not going to learn, plus he's barely contributed anything to this wiki. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 07:54, 7 November 2005 (EST)

:Joe, I don't agree with Ricimer's request for a permanent ban on Jzanjani--yet. But baiting someone with immature comments, and using the otherwise user-edited-only home page as a shelter to add baiting comments (of which Ricimer violated the custom of never editing a user page other than one's own), I'm recommend a 6-month ban if you see fit. At the same time, Ricimer needs to remember the old adage of sticks and stones. If Jzanjani said something like this to my face, yeah, I'd punch him out of principle, but he did not do so to Ricimer, and this is just an annoying person doing annoying things under anonymity, an unfortunate side-effect (and form of cowardice) of posting here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:48, 7 November 2005 (EST)

==Galactica Station images==

I don't think you necessarily had to delete the screen grabs borrowed from Galactica Station, for reasons I stated on [[User talk:Ricimer|Ricimer's talk page]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:21, 7 November 2005 (EST)

==Galactica videogame materials==

Hi; I was the scriptwriter for the Galactica videogame in 2003, and I noticed you have some material on the wiki about the game. If you're interested, I'd be happy to supply you with the full character bios and backstory elements that were written for the game design process. Email me. --[[User:James Swallow|James Swallow]] 11:47, 29 November 2005 (GMT)

== 3D Modeling area ==

Joe,

Are you interested in including articles on publicly available 3D models for BSG ships? I'm a member over at http://www.scifi-meshes.com, where BSG models are frequently under construction, many of which will become publicly available for fans to use to make 3D pictures of BSG ship scenes. It's something of intense interest to a few people - fans who know how to use 3D modeling programs to make scenes - but their pix are enjoyed by many, and public models are hard to track down. Having articles that point people to these models would be of great informational help.

Just wondering. I have no idea where these kinds of articles would go, or how they should be formatted.

[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 20:11, 29 November 2005 (EST)

Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I

2005-09-21T10:50:57Z

CrimsonLine: /* Analysis */

[[Image:bsg-klg1-1.jpg|thumb|right|"Kobol's Last Gleaming Part 1" (credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]

== Overview ==
''The Galactica discovers Kobol, and a chain of events are set in motion that threaten to change everything.''

== Summary ==
* Following the [[Colonial Day]] celebrations, [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]] finally beds [[Thrace, Kara|Starbuck]], but as they make love, she cries out for [[Lee Adama]], shattering Baltar
* Stricken by her apparent rejection of him in their coupling, Baltar in turn comes close to rejecting [[Number Six|Six]] and find it impossible to concentrate on anything – including his duties as Vice President
* Elsewhere on ship, [[Valerii, Sharon#"Boomer" Valerii|Boomer]] attempts to take her own life, but breaks down in tears before she can shoot herself – and she is called to the Ready Room for a pre-flight briefing
* [[Roslin, Laura|Roslin]] discovers that her cancer treatment is not going well; her cancer has in fact spread to her lymphatic system, giving her perhaps 6 months to live
* Baltar verbally fences with Lee Adama and is somewhat insulting to Starbuck, tipping Lee off that the doctor has slept with Starbuck; later, still thinking about Starbuck, Baltar cracks in front of Roslin
* Following a recon mission, Boomer and [[Crashdown]] return to the ''[[Galactica]]'' with evidence they’ve stumbled upon [[Kobol]]
* Determined to have things out with Starbuck, Lee confronts her in the hangar bay, and the two come to blows, Starbuck realising that her actions with Baltar have hurt Lee Adama
* Reviewing the evidence returned by Boomer and Crashdown, Roslin has a vision which [[Elosha]] confirms to be the [[City of the Gods]] on Kobol
* Roslin has two further visions – the [[Arrow of Apollo]] and the [[Tomb of Athena]], and accepts the scriptures as fact
* Boomer, still confused, attempts to take her own life – “encouraged” by Baltar in defiance of Six
* When [[Adama, William|Adama]] reviews the evidence, he orders an extensive surface survey of the planet, seeing it as a opportunity for them to settle. Warned he should get off the ''Galactica'' by Six, Baltar assigns himself to the survey
* Roslin tries to convince Adama that Kobol will point the way to [[Earth]], but they must use the captured [[Cylon Raider|Raider]] to return to [[The Twelve Colonies#Caprica|Caprica]] and retrieve the Arrow of Apollo
* Three Raptors depart the Galactica for Kobol, but on arrival they find themselves in the midst of a Cylon force of Raiders – and a [[basestar]]
* One Raptor is destroyed, and one - carrying Baltar – is forced down on Kobol
* Before a rescue mission can be launched, the basestar must be taken out – and Starbuck hatches a plan to do just this using the captured Raider
* Hearing this, Roslin meets with Starbuck and convinces her into going to Caprica instead to retrieve the arrow, by telling her that Adama does not know where Earth is.

===On Caprica===
* [[Agathon, Karl C.|Helo]], alone and on the run, encounters “his” [[Valerii, Sharon#Caprica Valerii|Valerii]]. He shoots and wounds her. Unable to kill her outright, he takes her with him
* When Valerii tries to explain things to him, Helo informs her that all she is to him is a way off the planet

== Summary from scifi.com ==
While flying a supply patrol, Crashdown and Sharon Valerii discover a bountiful planet that can support human life. Indeed, it might be Kobol, the legendary "home of the gods." The discovery prompts Commander Adama to send a ground team to investigate; it also gives new life to President Roslin's belief that she is a tool of destiny and that this discovery, like her rapidly spreading cancer, is part of an ancient prophecy.

However, things are not well on the Galactica. Gaius Baltar, the new vice-president, has a one-night stand with Kara Thrace and finds himself at odds with both Lee Adama and a deeply jealous Number Six.

Meanwhile, both Cylon Sharons struggle with their dual natures. On Galactica, she contemplates suicide when she realizes her programming will lead her to betray her comrades; on Caprica, she tries to convince Helo that her love for him is stronger than her loyalty to the Cylons.

After a Raptor carrying Vice-President Baltar is shot down over Kobol, Commander Adama must find a way to destroy the Cylon basestar that guards the planet before he can send a rescue team. He orders Kara to fly a dangerous mission against the basestar, using the captured Cylon Raider — but Kara makes an unauthorized Jump home to Caprica instead, abandoning Adama and the stranded Raptor crew.
--This section ©2005, [http://www.scifi.com SCI FI]. All rights reserved.

== Questions ==
* Why did the people leave [[Kobol]]?
* What happened to the gods who lived on Kobol “with man?”?
* Did the gods remain on Kobol after humanity left?
* Given the similarities with the [[Greek Gods|Greek Pantheon]], did the gods decide to follow the 13th tribe to Earth, thus establishing the myths of the Olympian gods?
* Do the Cylons consider Kobol as their spiritual home as well (“The birthplace of us all” – [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben Conoy]], [[Flesh and Bone]])?
* Did Boomer's Cylon personality interfere in her attmept at suicide, resulting in her wounding herself, or did her human personality lack the conviction of the act, resulting in the wound?
* If the disk devices investigated by Gaeta is indeed an [[IFF]] transponder, why did the Cylons make such an attempt to destory the ''Galactica'' during their first attack - up to and including deploying nuclear weapons against her? Was the device inactive - if so, why was it in [[CIC]] in the first place ([[Mini-Series]])?

== Analysis ==

The finest episode of Battlestar Galactica to air so far; so finely tuned the it barely misses a beat. This is also the first episode where music is used to its most evocative effect, further lifting the story into the realm of outstanding drama.

From the outset the audience knows it is in for something special; the re-cap of previous episodes so tightly defined, it for once deals with a single strand of the story to date: the Cylons, only opening at the end to reveal the motivating thrust to this episode: the finding of Kobol.

This leads into one of the most beautifully-constructed teasers witnessed in television drama. Evocative, moving – and entirely minimalist in terms of dialogue -, it really is proof that frequently, less really is more. Why waste time with words, when actions and expressions speak so much louder, and music can imbue the underlying emotions.

Battlestar Galactica has not always fared well where music is concerned. The opening theme is one that is either liked or disliked, with little middle ground; incidental music in previous episodes has been sporadic in its ability to act – as music should – as the aural scenery that helps bring the drama to life. Sometimes it has worked, in others – notably the otherwise brilliant The Hand of God – it has been so out of keeping with the atmosphere of the show, it has detracted from the overall enjoyment of the episode.

Here, however, the music is perfect – and it is interesting to see that in immersing the audience into the subtleties of the teaser, the episode uses a “classical” approach through the use of an orchestral sound, rather than the more tribal beats common to Battlestar Galactica.

And the result is remarkable. Utilising the string section in the foreground – violins and cellos slowly building a theme to which is added further instruments as new revelations are made concerning the moods and responses of the various characters; providing an aural tapestry through which everything is linked; the bringing together and the falling apart of relationships; the expression of needs, and emotions.

The music perfectly underpins one of the main thrusts of the teaser: a demonstration of how alive the humans are; how driven by passion and instinct. It was in “Flesh and Bone” that Doral stated his envy of a human’s ability to experience such extremes. Now we’re cleverly shown everything the Cylon’s aspire to experience themselves: passions unbounded by the need for constraint, given form in both the boxing and in Starbuck’s fantasy view of her coupling with Baltar (“Lee”).

Turning to the boxing, it is evident more is going on here than a simple father-and-son sparring match. Aggression and frustration are being dealt with here – as witnessed by the clear satisfaction Lee gets from striking and hurting his father. When he lands his first big punch, he asks, “Are you OK?” not out of concern, but out of satisfaction; it could have so easily been followed by, “Because there’s plenty more where that came from.” Even so, his frustrations are released guardedly, whereas his father’s response is not. He allows himself to enjoy striking his son, giving his instincts the freedom of expression they need.

Another fascinating element of the teaser is the manner in which Boomer’s situation is offset with Valerii on Caprica. As Boomer takes her handgun and prepares to shoot herself, Valerii finds Helo, and tells him to shoot her. Both of them have reached the same point in their existence, both of them because of their entirely human responses – in Boomer’s case fear and in Valerii’s the anguish of lost love. Fear and love – perhaps the strongest of emotions we can experience; and both have driven these instances of Valerii to despair. In doing so, these emotions reveal both the “flaw” within the Valerii model that makes it “weak” in Six’s eyes while also demonstrating the Cylon experiment has succeeded – perhaps in a way the Cylons could not have conceived.

The rest of the episode is no less rich. Roslin’s acceptance of her role and the reality of the scriptures, though sudden, is entirely in keeping with all that has been shown in recent episodes. The issues arising from this are both immediate and long-term. She has already subverted the strike against the Cylon basestar – putting the entire fleet at risk, as well as the lives of some 8-10 members of the Galactica’s crew stranded on Kobol. Whether Adama be willing to let this go if/when Starbuck returns with the Arrow of Apollo remains to be seen. However, as Billy points out, if she continues to act upon what he sees (and no doubt others will believe) as “drug-induced hallucinations”, then the stability of the entire government within the fleet will be put at risk – possibly well before the scheduled elections.

In a similar way, the flare-up of jealousy and anger between Lee and Starbuck is entirely in keeping with recent events: their potential attraction has been seen in brief flashes throughout, while their frustrations with one another have been witnessed through the likes of “Act of Contrition” and most recently, “The Hand of God”. Beyond that, they have a history together that bonds them from their time at flight school, where Zak Adama initially brought them together as friends through to Lee’s arrival aboard the Galactica. Thus, Lee’s very evident attraction to her during the Colonial Day party, is fully in keeping with what we have seen: but she ends up bedding Baltar.

While this latter point is somewhat surprising given the degree of open contempt she has shown him of late (“Bastille Day”, “Litmus”, “Secrets and Lies”), given the availability of drinks aboard the “Cloud Nine” their coupling could be put down to the effects of alcohol. Certainly, Baltar has never hidden his lust for Starbuck, and it is hard to see him missing the opportunity to take advantage of his new-found position as Vice President and the fact that Six has given her permission to sleep with whoever he likes.

Why did she do it? Probably because, despite his attraction to her, and her to him (hence her orgasm-induced cry) Starbuck sees Lee as unobtainable – possibly because of that same history they share. So in her inebriation, she opts for the closest available target – Baltar. Whatever the reason, her actions are more than enough to both become the perfect catalyst for Baltar’s conflicts with Six and his apparent desire to confound her (as evidenced through his conversation with Boomer), and to act as a catalyst to bring Lee’s jealousy to the surface.

Baltar’s time with Boomer is interesting. Taking heed of Six’s warning concerning the danger the Galactica while face and acting in defiance of her mocking comments in the bunkroom itself, he acts in defiance of her, gently bringing Boomer to the point where she can carry out the attempt on her own life. Through it all, Six is obviously confused by his actions. That Boomer’s Cylon persona more than likely stopped her killing herself, the fact that Baltar was willing to act as he does has a major impact on Six – hence her more gentle reminder to him when the survey of Kobol is being planned.

The episode also can’t be faulted for the standard of performance turned in. Across the board all of the ensemble cast put in sterling performances that serve to ratchet-up “Kobol’s Last Gleaming Part 1” so it stands head and shoulders above what has already been a remarkable first season run. Thus, to single any individual member of the cast out at the expense of the others would be somewhat unfair; everyone appearing on-screen – be it for 40 minutes or 4 – makes their character utterly engrossing to watch.

The final elements that round-out this episode are the writing and direction. With this story, Eick and Moore demonstrate they have a clear vision for where the series will hopefully go (allowing for future renewals), the territories it may cover and the ways in which the various threads can be intertwined and then neatly separated again to build a complex picture of humanity and circumstance. Furthermore, in ramping-up the Roslin arc, they are simultaneously bringing some of the threads that have formed the fabric of this first season to an end, while opening new potential avenues for exploration in future seasons.

Having veteran BSG director Rymer (mini-series, “33”) helm this episode is also a smart move. In both the mini and “33”, Rymer firmly established the look and feel of the finished Galactica product, and here he demonstrates his finesse with the docu-drama style the production has striven for; using the technique to draw the audience into the drama almost as if they are themselves participants.

== Notes ==
*It is 3 days since the events of [[Colonial Day]]
*There are now 47,897 survivors in the fleet, a net loss of 1 since "Colonial Day".
*The fleet is beginning to run short of supplies
*Humans departed Kobol some 2,000 years prior to the setting of the series
*Kobol is a place where the “gods and man lived together in paradise”
*Some of the "gods" appear to be buried on Kobol (Athena's tomb)
*[[Socinus]] has been released from the brig and returned to duty.

===Blooper Moments===
When Sharon shoots herself, she is holding an automatic pistol, but the sound was that of the larger sidearms carried by pilots when flying off-ship missions (only slightly suppresed), rather than the report of a "normal" pistol being fired.

===Nods===
The use of [[IFF]] transponders by the Cylons is an indirect nod to [[TOS Battlestar Galactica|the original series]], in which [[Apollo (TOS)|Apollo]] and [[Starbuck (TOS)|Starbuck]] use an IFF-type device to identify their [[Cylon Raider#Original Series Raider|Raider]] to Colonial forces when they launch an attack on a Cylon Basestar ([[The Hand of God (TOS)]]

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''In the bunk room, when Gaius Baltar interrupts Sharon Valeri’s second attempt at suicide:''
:Sharon Valeri: (as she pretends to be cleaning her hand gun) What’s going on?
:Gaius Baltar: (cautiously) Well, I was going to ask you the same question. Actually, I was looking for Lieutenant Thrace but...sometimes it’s good to...talk these things over.
:Number Six: (feigning pity) Deep down she knows she’s a Cylon, but her conscious mind just won’t accept it.
:Sharon Valeri: Sometimes I have these...dark thoughts.
:Gaius Baltar: What kind of dark thoughts?
:Number Six: Her model is weak, always has been. But in the end she’ll carry out her mission.
:Sharon Valeri: I don’t know, but I’m afraid I’m going to hurt someone. I feel like I ought to be stopped.
:Number Six: (moving to the other side of Boomer) She can’t be stopped. She’s a Cylon. You can’t help her, Gaius...but you could probably sleep with her. (Baltar reacts with a look of disgust at Six.) That’s what you want, right?
:Gaius Baltar: (to Boomer) I’m not sure why...sometimes...we must embrace that which opens up for us.
:Sharon Valeri: Embrace?
:Gaius Baltar: Life can be a curse as well as a blessing. (his voice becomes more intense) You will believe me when I tell you: there are far worse things than death in this world...
:Sharon Valeri: So you’re saying…?
:Gaius Baltar: No. No, no, no. What I say...is meaningless. Listen to your heart. Embrace that which you know to be the right decision.
:(They look at each other as Six regards Baltar with a look of complete incomprehension, then Baltar stands and kisses Boomer on the forehead before walking out of the bunkroom. Seconds later there is the sound of a single gunshot from inside.)

* ''In the Galactica's landing bay:''
:Lee Adama: Going hunting?
:Kara Thrace: (loading ammunition into the Cylon Raider) I'm manning the gunnery for the jump test tomorrow. See if our boy here can shoot anything with our ammo.
:Lee Adama: So it's a boy now.
:Kara Thrace: I changed my mind.
:Lee Adama: You ever wonder why everyone else calls it a "she", but to you, it's a "he"?
:Kara Thrace: That's fascinating, Lee. You should write a paper.
:Lee Adama: Well, that's not really my style. I'm not as smart as...say, Doctor Baltar. How is the Vice President, by the way?
:Kara Thrace: I don't know. Haven't seen him.
:Lee Adama: (thinks for a second) So...he's a love-them and leave-them kind of guy, I guess.
:Kara Thrace: I guess.
:Lee Adama: Ships just pass in the night...
:Kara Thrace: Yep.
:Lee Adama: Didn't mean a thing.
:Kara Thrace: No.
:Lee Adama: You were just bored, looking for something to do. So fracking the Vice President of the Colonies seemed like a great waste of time!
:Kara Thrace: Do you want something from me?
:Lee Adama: Not a thing-
:Kara Thrace: -because I don't owe you anything.
:Lee Adama: No, you don't owe me anything. because I'm just a CAG, and you're just a pilot. A pilot who can't keep her pants on! Oh, it's just like old times, Kara. Like when you got drunk and you couldn't keep your hands off the Major-
:(Kara turns around and swings a punch at Lee, but Lee returns the favor by punching Kara in the eye)
:Lee Adama: Why'd you do it, Kara? Just tell me why.
:Kara Thrace: Because I'm a screwup, Lee. Try to keep that in mind.

* ''As Kara Thrace pilots the Cylon Raider in a weapons test, she contacts Commander Adama:''
:Commander Adama: (to Kara) Go ahead.
:Kara Thrace: I believed you. Believed in Earth.
:Commander Adama: What are you doing, Starbuck?
:Kara Thrace: Bringing home the cat, sir.
:Commander Adama: We can talk about this.
:Kara Thrace: No, I don't think so.
:Commander Adama: I want you to remember one thing. I do not regret anything that I did. Be sure that whatever you're going to do, you don't regret it later. Do you understand me?
:Kara Thrace: I guess we'll find out. (Starbuck uses the FTL computer to jump to Caprica)
:Lee Adama: Galactica, Apollo. Starbuck has jumped away. Repeat, Starbuck has jumped away.
:Colonel Tigh: She wasn't scheduled for a jump test! Where the hell did she go?
:Commander Adama: Home.

== Official Statements ==

=== Regarding Lack of Definitive Information Regarding [[Kobol]] ===
{{from_RDM_blog}}

:"In the last two episodes it is noted by the priestess that the the thirteen tribes left [[Kobol]] about "2000 years ago" and the initial esitmate of the age of the ruins is the same, but nothing is concrete of course. This is where I have a problem: They were obviously a star faring civilization to leave Kobol to being with. To do so requires information technology. Why is their history of that time so sketchy and lacking of concrete records? Yes it was 2000 years in the past but come on, it's not like they only had [[Wikipedia:papyrus|papyrus]] to write on. "

:I've been presupposing some kind of cataclysm or crisis that occured soon after mankind settled on the 12 worlds which either wiped out the knowledge base or had it deliberately destroyed for some reason. This doesn't seem that implausible when one considers that a tremendous amount of knowledge from the Greco-Roman tradition was lost after the fall of the [[Wikipedia:Roman Empire|Roman Empire]] and plunged the western world into the so called [[Wikipedia:Dark Ages|Dark Ages]]. Clearly, the Colonials did not fall all the way back to papyrus, and they do in fact, know that they are descendants of refugees from Kobol, hence the term "[[Colonies]]." They must have possessed star-faring technology at the time of the exodus, but I don't know how far we'll go into this specific backstory in the series, however.

=== Other Statements ===

* ''[[Jamie Bamber]] talks about his response to the argument held between [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Lee Adama]] in this episode:''

: It's sort of an explosion of jealousy that is a complete surprise to him because I don't think he's ... he's not fully aware of what he feels. There's something quite like a gut reaction that really was exciting to play. It was a surprise to me. [http://gateworld.net/galactica/articles/bamber01.shtml]

== Statistics ==



=== Guest Stars ===



*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Lorena+Gale Lorena Gale] as [[Elosha]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Donnelly+Rhodes Donnelly Rhodes] as [[Doctor Cottle]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Alonso+Oyarzun Alonso Oyarzun] as [[Socinus]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Nicki+Clyne Nicki Clyne] as [[Cally]]
*[[Olmos, Bodie|Bodie Olmos]] as [[Constanza|Constanza / Hot Dog]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Stephen+Spender Stephen Spender] as Pilot
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+James+Bell James Bell] as ECO



=== Writing & Direction ===

*Story by [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+David+Eick David Eick]
*Teleplay by [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Ronald+D.+Moore Ronald D. Moore]
*Directed by [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Michael+Rymer) Michael Rymer]




=== Production Notes ===

*Series: 1 (2004 / 2005)
*Production Number: 1.12
*Airdate Order: 12 (of 13)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate: 17 January 2005 (Sky One)
*US Airdate: 25 March 2005 (Sci-Fi Channel)
*DVD Release: 28 March 2005 (UK)

== External Links ==
[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/ "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I"] at scifi.com

{{Episode List}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy/Archive02

2005-09-14T11:12:16Z

CrimsonLine: /* Definition of a "Spoiler" */

= Compromise #1 =

It has become apparent to me that no definitive consensus exists in relation to the [[Battlestar Wiki:Spoiler Policy|Spoiler Policy]]. If I am to take the votes as proof of the views of all persons using this wiki, the user base is evenly split into two groups: for "spoilers" and against "spoilers".

To begin, the question that needs to be answered first is "What constitutes as a spoiler?"

To those who haven't seen either Battlestar series before, ''everything'' is spoilerific.

However, since we are here to report and analyze all things in the BSG [[canon]], the definition I am going with follows:

:'''spoiler''' (noun). Information on an episode or potential entry into [[canon]] that has not been officially released yet, whether in the form of a "first airing" or final public release.

Now, in order to not alienate anybody, I am proposing this compromise policy. You may vote for or against it at your discretion, or even suggest amendments or changes to it. If people like the policy's direction, a "final draft" will be written up and subsequently voted upon. Yours truly, [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:53, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

== Policy (Draft) ==

: ''Note: Major changes worth noting are in '''boldface''', so that people can see the difference from the [[Battlestar Wiki:Spoiler Policy|current policy]].''

=== Overview ===

As an episode guide and encyclopedia (and to a lesser extent, a dictionary), this wiki may use information considered "spoilerific" in nature. This policy goes over the '''placement of such information, as well as how the viewer can be forewarned when visiting an article containing such information.'''

=== Definition of a "Spoiler" ===

In fandom parlance, a "spoiler" is one or more pieces of information that may spoil the user's interest in an ongoing series, such as divulging future plot points or introducing new facts about previously established characters into a series' [[canon]].

To a new viewer of any ''Battlestar'' series, everything is considered a spoiler. However, since this wiki exists as an information reference, we are not here to protect new viewers from information.

The spoiler policy '''protects viewers familiar with the series who do not want to be exposed to information from episodes that have not had a first airing'''.

=== General Policy ===

This wiki recognizes that there are those who believe such information is detrimental to their viewing habits, while others are potentially apathetic to being "spoiled" as it does not affect their habits either way. Therefore, the following measures are to be adhered to:

# Information on unaired episodes can be added to any article on this wiki, '''but shall be tagged with a spoiler warning message, {{tl|spoiler}}.'''
#* The tag shall go on the first line of the article's text, before any other text and templates.
#* Failure to properly tag a page with this warning shall result in removal of spoiler information, as well as consequences outlined further in this policy text.
# Information located on user or talk pages ''does not'' need to be tagged with {{tl|spoiler}}. These are "neutral zones", though it is suggested that users keep in mind other users who may not feel the same way they do regarding spoilers.
# Once the episode has been aired -- or is airing at the time of a user's editing -- information revealed in that aired or airing episode can no longer be considered "spoilerific".

== Enforcement of Policy ==

Repeated failure to obey this policy will result in the user being warned on his or her talk page. Dismissal of the warnings may result in short-term or long-term banning, depending on the circumstances.

= Discussion =

Please add your discussion points here. Thanks!

:I like it, but two things nag me. 1) If there's some leak that something will happen to soem major character, we then mark the whole article about them as spoilerific? B) Should we give any thoughts to verifying the, ah, validity of the information? I think that's about it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::1.) This also bothers me. I think perhaps on regular articles, we could have a section below everything else for spoiler content. Episode pages for unaired episodes could just be flagged at the top, though.
::2.) A link to an online source or should be adequate. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:23, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::: Great points. I believe that articles, such as character ones, should have a "spoiler" section to them added to the bottom with the appropriate warning before the spoilerific information. I'll clarify in the draft. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 01:38, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy

2005-09-06T19:04:39Z

CrimsonLine: /* No spoilers except for episode pages */

== Complaints and Concerns ==

I hate the spoiler policy. I don't want to be spoiled. I won't be using or contributing to the site significantly until after the end of the season and before you start spoiling season 3.

Character summaries in particular should be free of spoilers like "died in tbe episode Scattered," (before it aired), especially when the character doesn't die in Scattered after all when it finally airs.

Socinus lives!

-MHall

: I personally go by group consensus. If the consensus is that spoiler information is used, then that's the consensus; if it is vice-versa, then spoiler information isn't used (or packaged so as not to spoil the casual reader). As we're an '''information resource and episode guide''', spoilers are a necessary evil. Some of the spoiler information changes from script to shooting, hence the inaccurate statement of Socinus' death in "Scattered"; it doesn't preclude him dying later on due to his injuries, so he may still die this season.

: For instance, I noted that details often change from the initial script to the final shooting. Permit me to use Boomer as an example: her being a human Cylon was never in the previous versions of the mini-series script, but changed -- indirectly -- after one of Ron Moore's friends made a quip about there not being a "By your command" line in the script. (That information came from the mini-series DVD commentary track.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:41, 17 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Actually, I think that there is no way of making a spoiler-free version for everybody and making it work, too - because some country will always be the last to air the show, and by then, parts of the rest of the world will have forgotten about it already.

There is however one exception: There should really be no spoilers for shows that have not even aired, or at least not anywhere but that episode's summary. Otherwise, there is really no way one can enjoy this wiki ''and'' the show. (Happened for me with Home II.) I would even go as far as extending the no-spoilers for not-yet-aired shows for 24 hrs after the show, again, with the exception of the episodes's page. Because, let's fact it, lots of people will use P2P to see the show, because otherwise it would be years until they get to see it. (And if they are unlucky, they would have to see a synchronised version, too.) So the latter suggestion would enable them to look up things here while not having to wait for the show to arrive.

And one final thing: Spoiling from the scripts does not even make much sense - as the first poster on this page points out; and the audio comments imply the same. So my guess would be that spoiling not-yet aired shows will put off users from using this site, which is hardly a good thing, and it doesn't make much sense in the first place to do so, because the scripts will not air the way they were written, anyway. So I really would suggest a No spoilers for unaired shows policy. -- [[User:Still not king|Still not king]] 12:32, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

::I agree. We gain very little by jumping the gun on upcoming episode spoilers - for example, I didn't need to know that spoileriffic note on the episode summary for [[Resurrection Ship]] at all. There's no reason not to be patient with these things. I do not agree, however, with a 24 hour injunction against posting episode details - we should be able to start wiki-ing as soon as it airs in our respective timezones. If we want to stay spoiler free on the west coast, we can always just not log on during the three hour window. Likewise, when the brits start getting Season 2, Part II before we do, we shouldn't force ourselves to wait for the U.S. airings. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:45, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

:::I was intentionally proposing ''just'' 24 hours - that is what it might take to get to see the show if you have to get it by P2P, and in the meantime, one might still want to check out something -- not the episode summary, of course, but a plain page about a character. It's a minor part of my proposal, though -- the important one is No spoilers of unaired shows. -- [[User:Still not king|Still not king]] 20:13, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

::::I really like the idea of not posting regarding unaired shows. There's no way to avoid spoilers for shows that have aired already, but the show doesn't really exist until it's aired, in a way (insofar that it might be changed). I also really like the idea of a 24-hour wait period after the first (and thus, British, right?) air time. A day isn't that long, really, and I'm not sure about anyone else, but these episodes make my mind race and I'd probably be too excited if I went straight from the sofa to the computer after watching. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:35, 29 August 2005 (EDT)

:::::One of the nice things about the wiki system is that if you post something innacurate or overzealous, someone else can come along and tone it down a bit. I'm starting a vote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:03, 29 August 2005 (EDT)

:This is rediculous. You come onto a site that has a quite obvious spoiler policy on the front fage, you go to read about upcoming episodes, and then you cry about being spoiled. Gee, obviously the best way to solve this is to stop people from posting new information. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 08:51, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:The whole debate is a bit odd to me. "Spoilers" by definition have to do with un-aired episodes, and anything written about un-aired episodes is, by definition, speculation. That speculation may be more informed or less, but it's still just that, ''speculation''. You have to watch the episode to find out what actually happens. If anything maybe there should be a reminder on un-aired ep pages that the information may or may not be accurate. Back in the day, there was another sci-fi show, "Babylon 5" which had/has a website much like this one - "The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5." The Lurker's Guide, while being an accurate and detailed guide to the show, was also a haven for every kind of spoilage and speculation imaginable, which I and many others found only enhanced our enjoyment of the show. --[[User:Astarte|Astarte]] 05:22, 3 September 2005 (EDT)

::I was also a fan of the lurker's guide. I think an important difference here is that the production staff of B5 (ie, JMS) were very tight-lipped and conscious of avoiding big spoilers. The staff of the Re-imagined series have been much looser, and credible spoilers for various production details have been leaked far and wide throughout the first half of the second season. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:25, 3 September 2005 (EDT)

== Spoiler Warning ==

How about episode pages that have not been aired yet get a spoiler tag, so that people that can contribute to them knowing full well that they'll likely be spoiled? Same can be done with character and event pages, so that information introduced to them from episodes not yet aired can also be used on this Wiki without fear of spoiling those that do not wish it. Thoughts?-- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:39, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:I'm afraid it wouldn't do me much good, since I read the diffs on everything on the recent edits page anyway. Maybe we could allow spoilers on episode summary pages but discourage them elsewhere? Avoiding the episode summaries isn't very hard. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:11, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I found this problem with the Pegasus ep and related data. I wanted to keep the Fall of the Twelve Colonies page accurate with what we knew about surviving Battlestars, but this is still a spoiler, so the data there is left a bit vague unless someone digs for it. Still, a spoiler is a spoiler. The talk page would satisfy both spoiler-hunter and seeker on an episode article. We'd just need to add a "Spoiler" topic there, and note to people that if you are going to see an episode page for a show that hasn't aired, you are asking for it, literally. At least the talk page has an extra layer for avoiders to have, but because of the nature of this wiki, eliminating spoilers takes away a lot of the research fun. Data's gotta go somewhere and we can't commit the juicy bits for the main page to memory until the ep is aired. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:40, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

::This is going to be awkward, but I feel like we should add this as an option in the vote. Also adding a note on approval voting. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:::I dislike the thought of having to move massive amounts of text. So far, I've been avoiding pages to do with unaired episodes. That's easy enough. My main concern is someone clicking through and wondering, "Who the ''heck'' is Gina?", thinking it's some pilot who's name they missed or some small character. Then they read about an episode they didn't want to. Or, in another case, someone reading all about Lee and the information going on, at the end, past the most recent episode. I think keeping character pages clear is the better idea. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:01, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

=== Subpage? ===

How about comitting spoilers to a subpage of an article? For instance, [[Pegasus (episode)]] would have a subpage called [[Pegasus (episode)/Spoilers]]? I believe that would be fairly straight forward, given the title of the subpage. :-)

Then, after the episode airs, we can simply merge the contents together from the spoiler page into the main page of the article in question. Just my view. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:48, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:This sounds like a lot of work. I actually agree with Spencerian that anyone who clicks on the episode page for an unaired episode is explicitly asking for it. Additionally, those are easy edits to avoid reading. I'm going to go and complicate things now... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:: It does, but my intent was to just throw this out there to see what everyone else thought. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:01, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:::See my note above for my thoughts on having to merge things. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:01, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

== What is a spoiler? ==
In response to Day's query below ("So what constitutes a spoiler for this new voting catagory?"): I believe a spoiler is anything from an as-yet-unaired show. Examples: Lucy Lawless's character, Cain, Gina, etc. I think the revelation about Boomer is fair game, as that was the end of the Mini-Series. It's hard to escape that fact when most press articles now refer to her as a Cylon. For the purposes of my argument and vote, a "spoiler" is any information that has not yet been broadcast. Is that a fair assessment? -- [[User:Ryq|ryq]] 16:40, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

:I concur with this definition. I just thought it would pay to be absolutely clear. --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:56, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

:What about various countries using this page? What an Australian considers a spoiler may already be known via broadcast in the states. Using this logic, spoiler pages could end up lasting for literally months after an original broadcast. --[[User:adedward|Adedward]] 16:15, 3 September 2005 (EDT)

:: Which is a problem with a "no spoiler" spoiler policy... Different countries see episodes at different times. Fact of the matter remains that there will always be spoilers within the wiki, so there will always be an "all spoilers permitted" policy -- in that way. The current discussion, however, is more towards spoiling episodes that haven't aired ''anywhere''. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:37, 3 September 2005 (EDT)

==Vote==

Vote for as many options as you agree with. Voting method is [[Wikipedia:Approval Voting|approval voting]] - place your name under every policy which would be acceptable to you; the policy acceptable to the most users wins.

Spoilers in this vote refer to details of unaired episodes. As an encyclopedia, cataloging information from already aired episodes is what we do, and is not in question.

===All spoilers permitted (current policy)===
# [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 08:47, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Wingsandsword|Wingsandsword]] 21:38, 1 September 2005 (EDT) This a reference, let's act like it. If we have reliable information, share it with others.
# --[[User:Astarte|Astarte]] 04:50, 3 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:adedward|Adedward]] 04:11pm, 3 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:50pm, 3 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Laven|Laven]] 06:00, 5 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Howlader|Howlader]] 1622, 5 September 2005 (EDT)

===No spoilers except for episode pages===
# --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:04, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
# --Zareck Rocks 15:00, 31 August 2005 (EDT)--
# --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:57, 1 September 2005 (EDT) (I'm apparently being convinced).
# --[[User:Dawn|Dawn]] 02:16, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 19:55, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 09:21, 4 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:CrimsonLine|CrimsonLine]] 15:04, 6 September 2005 (EDT)

===No spoilers except for episode talk pages===
# --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:35, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (To compromise, make the episode's TALK page fair game for spoiler data.)
# --[[User:Ryq|ryq]] 19:40, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (I agree with Spencerian's addendum)

===No spoilers until after first episode airdate===
# --[[User:cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 22:49, 29 August 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:35, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (To compromise, make the episode's TALK page fair game for spoiler data.)
# --[[User:Ryq|ryq]] 19:40, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (I agree with Spencerian's addendum)
# --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:45, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (So what constitutes a spoiler for this new voting catagory? Does this mean in the Mini-Series episode article, we have to take out the revelation about Boomer's heritage and move it to the talk page? Or does this new thing mean that information about unaired episodes goes on their talk pages until they've aired (or 24 hours after) when we can then move it to the main page? This new thing confuses me, which I think is apparent.)
# [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:06, 1 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Dawn|Dawn]] 02:15, 2 September 2005 (EDT)

===No spoilers until after first episode airdate + 24 hours===
# --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]
# --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:19, 30 August 2005 (EDT)
# [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:06, 1 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Dawn|Dawn]] 02:15, 2 September 2005 (EDT)

God (RDM)

2005-08-15T02:10:48Z

CrimsonLine: /* In the Original Series */

==In the Reimagined Series==

[[Image:Bscap059.jpg|thumb|"I am an instrument of God" --[[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]] in [[The Hand of God]] Credit: SkyOne]]

In [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the reimagined series]] of [[Battlestar Galactica]], [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]] and [[Mini-Series]]/internal [[Six]] espouse monotheistic views. Leoben's "we are all God" philosophy is similar to [[Wikipedia:Gnosticism|Gnosticism]]. Although the [[Colonials]] worship the [[Lords of Kobol]], even Colonials occasionally say singular "God," though it's often just as exclamations.

To avoid bias, quotes will do most of the talking here.

===Monotheistic References===

* "Oh, my God," "Thank God," or similar exclamations -- [[Adama, William|Commander Adama]] in the [[Mini-Series]], mother of baby in the [[Mini-Series]], [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]] in the [[Mini-Series]], the CAG in the [[Mini-Series]], Man on comlink to [[Roslin, Laura|Laura Roslin]] in the [[Mini-Series]], [[Valerii, Sharon|Sharon]] in [[Water]]

* "That, and God wanted me to help you." -- [[Six]], [[Mini-Series]]

* "We decided to play god - create life. When that life turned against us we comforted ourselves in the knowledge that it really wasn't our fault, not really. You cannot play god then wash your hands of the things that you've created." -- [[Adama, William|Commander Adama]], [[Mini-Series]]

* "Maybe the Cylons are God's retribution for our many sins. What if God decided he made a mistake and he decided to give souls to another creature, like the Cylons?" -- [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]], [[Mini-Series]]

* "God didn't create the Cylons. Man did. And I'm pretty sure we didn't include a soul in the programming." -- [[Adama, William|Commander Adama]], [[Mini-Series]]

* "And what I want most of all is for you to love me... Don't you understand? God is love." - internal [[Six]], [[Mini-Series]]

* "God has a plan for you, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone. Gaius - are you even listening to me?" -- internal [[Six]], [[33]]

* "Procreation is one of God's commandments." -- internal [[Six]], [[33]]

* "God is watching out for you, Gaius." -- internal [[Six]], [[33]]

* "A connection, maybe, but not God. There is no God, or gods, singular or plural. There are no large, invisible men (or women, for that matter) in the sky, taking a personal interest in the fortunes of Gaius Baltar." -- [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], [[33]]

* "Be careful. That which God gives He can also take away." -- internal [[Six]], [[33]]

* "It's God's punishment for your lack of faith." -- internal [[Six]], [[33]]

* "God's got nothing to do with this." -- [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], [[33]]

* "It's God's choice. He wants you to repent." -- internal [[Six]], [[33]]

* "Pilots call me "Starbuck", you may refer to me as 'God'." -- [[Thrace, Kara|Starbuck]], [[Act of Contrition]]

* "God answers everyone's prayers." -- [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "God, you stink. Can we get some air in here? Between you and the humidity..." -- [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]] to [[Thrace, Kara|Starbuck]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "I was right. See, our faiths are similar but I look to one God, not to many." -- [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "To know the face of God is to know madness. I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day. It's all there, I see it and you don't." -- [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "I am more than you could ever imagine. I am God." -- [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "I'm sorry, you're God? Wow... nice to meet ya. That's good, that's good. We'll give you a couple of minutes for that." -- [[Thrace, Kara|Starbuck]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "It's funny, isn't it? We're all God, Starbuck, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together. ... I know that God loved you more than all other living creatures and you repaid his divine love with sin, with hate, corruption, evil. So then he decided to create the Cylons." -- [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "It's your chance to find out if you're really God or just a bunch of circuits with a bad haircut. ... Somebody's programmed you with a fairy tale of God and streams and life ever after but, somewhere in that hard drive that you call a brain is a beeping message: 'Error, error, does not compute. I don't have a soul, I have software. If I die, I'm gone.'" -- [[Thrace, Kara|Starbuck]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "And this time, your role...you have to deliver my soul unto God. Do it for me. It's your destiny, and mine." -- [[Conoy, Leoben|Leoben]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "He's not afraid to die. He's just afraid that his soul won't make it to God." -- [[Thrace, Kara|Starbuck]], [[Flesh and Bone]]

* "Oh good, I suppose God doesn't want me to destroy the base, because he's the Cylon god, right?", [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], [[The Hand of God]]

* "God doesn't take sides. He only wants your love. Open your heart to him and he'll show you the way." -- internal [[Six]], [[The Hand of God]]

* "He didn't speak to me. God didn't speak to me. So I was totally lying. I just picked that spot at random." -- [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], [[The Hand of God]]

* "He doesn't always speak in words, Gaius." -- internal [[Six]], [[The Hand of God]]

* "Are you telling me that God guided my finger to that target for some... arcane scriptural purpose?" -- [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], [[The Hand of God]]

* "You are part of God's plan, Gaius." -- internal [[Six]], [[The Hand of God]]

* "So God wanted me to destroy the Cylon base." -- [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], [[The Hand of God]]

* "You did well. You gave yourself over to Him." -- internal [[Six]], [[The Hand of God]]

* "Yes, suppose I did. Yes, there's-- there's really no other logical explanation for it. I was - [Six: Am.] - I am an instrument of God." -- [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], [[The Hand of God]]

(There are more references; feel free to fill in the notable ones.)

===Judeo-Christian References===
[[Image:Baltar in crucifixion pose in ep13.jpg|thumb|Baltar in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] Credit: SkyOne]]

The [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|reimagined series]] of [[Battlestar Galactica]] contains few references to [[Wikipedia:Judeo-Christian|Judeo-Christian]] concepts such as [[Wikipedia:Jesus|Jesus]] and [[Wikipedia:Satan|Satan]].

* "Jesus." -- Colonel Tigh, [[Mini-Series]]

* "I was... [Six: Am.] I am..." -- [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]], [[The Hand of God]] (full quote in previous section)

* "Come on, Jim. [[Gray, Wallace|Wallace Gray]] is no 'prince of darkness.'" -- Playa, [[Colonial Day]]

The "I am" statement in [[The Hand of God]] is noteworthy, because of the self-description God gives to Moses in Exodus, [[Wikipedia:I am that I am|"I am that I am"]], and also Jesus has a series of "I am" statements in the Bible. The Bible contains over 300 "I am" statements.

As one of [[The mystery of 33|mysteries of 33]], [[33]] is not only the title of an episode but also the commonly reported age for Jesus Christ when he was crucified, so this is another possible reference to Christ.

Finally, "Christ" itself is from the Greek "Χριστός," or "Christos," which means "messiah" in Greek. In the reimagined series, the [[Pythia|Pythian Prophecies]] tell of a messiah figure who will lead them to Earth.

Also, it should be noted that Ron D. Moore was questioned in his blog about Tigh's "Jesus!" exclamation, and said that it was just an ad lib by the actor that did not appear in the script.

==In the Original Series==

In the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original series]] of [[Battlestar Galactica]], [[Lucifer]] was a name of an [[IL-series]] [[Cylon]] in [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|the original series]] of [[Battlestar Galactica]]. ''Lucifer'' is also a name for [[Wikipedia:Satan|Satan]].

[[Iblis|Count Iblis]] is a [[Wikipedia:Satan|Satan]]-like figure, and [[Wikipedia:Iblis|Iblis]] is the Satan of Islam.

Mormonism was reportedly an inspiration for some of the original series.

Zeus

2005-08-14T03:21:49Z

CrimsonLine: /* Colonial Mythology */

== Colonial Mythology ==

Zeus is the first Lord of Kobol ([[Bastille Day]]), from whom all other [[Lords of Kobol|Lords]] apparently sprung. He is father to [[Apollo]] ([[33]],[[The Hand of God]]) and, quite likely, to [[Athena]] as well. ([[The Hand of God]]).

Zeus mirrors the [[Olympian Panthelon]] from [[Earth]].

In Episode 5 of the Second Season ([[The Farm]]), [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] was referred to as ''Zeus''.

== Greek Mythology ==

Zeus Kroniōn (descendant of Cronus), or simply Zeús or Zdeús (Greek Ζεύς) or Dias (Greek Δίας) ("divine king") is the leader of the gods and god of the sky and thunder in Greek mythology. Typically symbolized as a bearded able-bodied man who can strike down people with lighting bolts he hurls. As demonstrated in the Greek Mythos (and mirrored in Colonial religion), he fathered many of the heroes and heroines (see the external links section) and was featured in many of their stories. Though he was the god of the sky and thunder, he was also the most supreme cultural artifact; in some senses, he was the embodiment of Greek religious beliefs and the archetypal Greek deity.

The various titles applied to Zeus emphasized different aspects of his wide-ranging authority:

* Olympios emphasized Zeus's kingship over both the gods and the Panhellenic festival at Olympia.
* A related title was Panhellenios, ('Zeus of all the Hellenes') to whom Aeacus' famous temple on Aegina was dedicated.
* As Xenios, Zeus was the patron of hospitality and guests, ready to avenge any wrong done to a stranger.
* As Horkios, he was the keeper of oaths. Liars who were exposed were made to dedicate a statue to Zeus, often at the sanctuary of Olympia.
* As Agoraios, Zeus watched over business at the agora, and punished dishonest traders.

== External Link ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus Zeus (Wikipedia)]

--[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:00, 29 Jan 2005 (EST)

Zeus

2005-08-14T03:21:26Z

CrimsonLine: /* Colonial Mythology */

== Colonial Mythology ==

Zeus is the first Lord of Kobol ([[Bastille Day]]), from whom all other [[Lords of Kobol|Lords]] apparently sprung. He is father to [[Apollo]] ([[33]],[[The Hand of God]]) and, quite likely, to [[Athena]] as well. ([[The Hand of God]]).

Zeus mirrors the [[Olympian Panthelon]] from [[Earth]].

In Episode 5 of the Second Season ([[The Farm]]), [[Commander Adama|William Adama]] was referred to as ''Zeus''.

== Greek Mythology ==

Zeus Kroniōn (descendant of Cronus), or simply Zeús or Zdeús (Greek Ζεύς) or Dias (Greek Δίας) ("divine king") is the leader of the gods and god of the sky and thunder in Greek mythology. Typically symbolized as a bearded able-bodied man who can strike down people with lighting bolts he hurls. As demonstrated in the Greek Mythos (and mirrored in Colonial religion), he fathered many of the heroes and heroines (see the external links section) and was featured in many of their stories. Though he was the god of the sky and thunder, he was also the most supreme cultural artifact; in some senses, he was the embodiment of Greek religious beliefs and the archetypal Greek deity.

The various titles applied to Zeus emphasized different aspects of his wide-ranging authority:

* Olympios emphasized Zeus's kingship over both the gods and the Panhellenic festival at Olympia.
* A related title was Panhellenios, ('Zeus of all the Hellenes') to whom Aeacus' famous temple on Aegina was dedicated.
* As Xenios, Zeus was the patron of hospitality and guests, ready to avenge any wrong done to a stranger.
* As Horkios, he was the keeper of oaths. Liars who were exposed were made to dedicate a statue to Zeus, often at the sanctuary of Olympia.
* As Agoraios, Zeus watched over business at the agora, and punished dishonest traders.

== External Link ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus Zeus (Wikipedia)]

--[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:00, 29 Jan 2005 (EST)

Zeus

2005-08-14T03:20:00Z

CrimsonLine: /* Colonial Mythology */ Adama called "Zeus" in "The Farm"

== Colonial Mythology ==

Zeus is the first Lord of Kobol ([[Bastille Day]]), from whom all other [[Lords of Kobol|Lords]] apparently sprung. He is father to [[Apollo]] ([[33]],[[The Hand of God]]) and, quite likely, to [[Athena]] as well. ([[The Hand of God]]).

Zeus mirrors the [[Olympian Panthelon]] from [[Earth]].

In Episode 5 of the Second Season ([[The Farm]]), [[Commander Adama]] was referred to as ''Zeus''.

== Greek Mythology ==

Zeus Kroniōn (descendant of Cronus), or simply Zeús or Zdeús (Greek Ζεύς) or Dias (Greek Δίας) ("divine king") is the leader of the gods and god of the sky and thunder in Greek mythology. Typically symbolized as a bearded able-bodied man who can strike down people with lighting bolts he hurls. As demonstrated in the Greek Mythos (and mirrored in Colonial religion), he fathered many of the heroes and heroines (see the external links section) and was featured in many of their stories. Though he was the god of the sky and thunder, he was also the most supreme cultural artifact; in some senses, he was the embodiment of Greek religious beliefs and the archetypal Greek deity.

The various titles applied to Zeus emphasized different aspects of his wide-ranging authority:

* Olympios emphasized Zeus's kingship over both the gods and the Panhellenic festival at Olympia.
* A related title was Panhellenios, ('Zeus of all the Hellenes') to whom Aeacus' famous temple on Aegina was dedicated.
* As Xenios, Zeus was the patron of hospitality and guests, ready to avenge any wrong done to a stranger.
* As Horkios, he was the keeper of oaths. Liars who were exposed were made to dedicate a statue to Zeus, often at the sanctuary of Olympia.
* As Agoraios, Zeus watched over business at the agora, and punished dishonest traders.

== External Link ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus Zeus (Wikipedia)]

--[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:00, 29 Jan 2005 (EST)