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	<entry>
		<id>https://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mythological_references/Archive_1&amp;diff=158575</id>
		<title>Talk:Mythological references/Archive 1</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mythological_references/Archive_1&amp;diff=158575"/>
		<updated>2008-05-03T04:13:46Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cranston: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Greek Gods]] should be merged here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:30, 13 September 2005 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Irrelevant or Redundant Content? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since we&#039;re not a general encyclopedia, do we need to go into detail into Greek tragedy here? Any useful information here might be best as a subsection in the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]] article. I also questioned the point of view of the article. It seemed slanted, somehow. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:27, 13 September 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are references to greek culture in places and character names that go beyond religion. So those might have a place in their own article.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
But I agree that article seems somewhat NPOV. Greek tragedy? Maybe, but that could be said for hundereds of other stories. Greek drama is still a rough, maybe unconscious, template for many modern stories --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:42, 13 September 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can&#039;t quite place the slant here either, though I like having a central point for the mythological references.  Perhaps the page would work better as a general Mythology page listing the current Greek, followed by non Greek references?  I can think of both Roman and Norse mythology referenced in the show and there isn&#039;t an easy way to find them right now.  I think that might be a bit more neutral. [[User:Tyrus|Tyrus]] 14:52, 7 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: A very good point, Tyrus. A general mythology page &#039;&#039;would&#039;&#039;, in my view, work better than what we have currently. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 22:31, 7 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Thanks.  Do you think it would be better to rename this page or should I just start a new one and move the information over?  [[User:Tyrus|Tyrus]] 07:41, 8 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: A rename (actually a &amp;quot;move&amp;quot; in wiki terms) would probably be the smoothest transition, as it would automatically redirect all the existing links to the new article. What would the new article name be? Mythology? Mythological references? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:01, 8 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I was working on a modified version of the article that would merge Greek Gods to this one under the new name &amp;quot;Mythology.&amp;quot; But I&#039;m wondering how much of this is redundant to [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]]. Or, should this article summarize the gods as they relate in RDM, with links to detailed pages if there are any? I was also adding the Egyptian references from TOS, too. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:11, 8 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cleanup / Merge ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If noone objects I&#039;d rename this article into &amp;quot;Mythology (RDM)&amp;quot; and divide it into &amp;quot;Greek mythology&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Roman mythology&amp;quot; and maybe &amp;quot;Other&amp;quot; (for such things as Ragnar and Valkyrie). At present that is at [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]], but this information isn&#039;t really strictly religious and as such doesn&#039;t all belong there. For example &amp;quot;ships with greek names&amp;quot; isn&#039;t a religious topic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem I see, is a confusion with the mythology of the show as whole, like the Final Five, search for Earth and all that. Maybe calling it&amp;quot;Mythological references&amp;quot; is better&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Greek Gods]] could probably be deleted outright.&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:16, 12 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I concur. Battlestar Wiki is not here to give history lessons on Greek mythology, only to note the mentioned ones as Lords of Kobol and their significance. If you or someone else doesn&#039;t do this one, I will be soon. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:34, 12 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I can do it. But I should we have a general &amp;quot;Mythology&amp;quot; article or expand the existing Religion article as you indicated in the deletion note? A in-universe list of mythological references is somewhat extensive, as there are a lot of ships (also in the LDYB tally board) with greek names. And an own article for it, can be linked to in the Religion article. &lt;br /&gt;
::For now I&#039;ll just go ahead and make the list, as it can just be copied into &amp;quot;Religion&amp;quot; if necessary... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:39, 13 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::This is perfect, Serenity. Out-of-universe voice works fine here. Maybe I should &amp;quot;smash and bash&amp;quot; articles more often to generate the right results.. ;) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:20, 13 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Seperate TOS and TNS sections ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think combining both shows like this is kinda confusing. I tried to seperate them with additional headers, but there are a few items that are shared between both series. Kobol originates in TOS, but is also present in TNS. TNS Caprica also has pyramids in Caprica City.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe just a third section called &amp;quot;Both Series&amp;quot; or something? I don&#039;t think seperate articles are needed, but at the moment you have to look a bit to keep the shows apart --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:54, 17 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds reasonable; I&#039;ll &amp;quot;race&amp;quot; you to it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:05, 17 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It&#039;s just a bit bloated. For example we&#039;d have two &amp;quot;judeo-christianty&amp;quot; sections then. But in light of some shared items, that&#039;s preferable to completely seperate articles --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:07, 17 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Proper placement for Greek antecedent to the name &amp;quot;Cylon&amp;quot;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been trying to find out if any of the articles here note that &amp;quot;Cylon&amp;quot; was the name of an Athenian noble who tried to make himself tyrant of Athens in the seventh century BC, but I haven&#039;t found any such reference.  I&#039;d like to add the reference somewhere, but I can&#039;t find a place where it should obviously go -- it can&#039;t go here, because Cylon is a historical, not a mythological figure; it doesn&#039;t seem to fit under &amp;quot;names&amp;quot; on the Colonial Language page, because that really only deals with proper names, and there&#039;s no clear in-universe indication of whether &amp;quot;Cylon&amp;quot; is a proper name.  Any suggestions as to where it should go?  [[User:Cranston|Cranston]] 20:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
: It wouldn&#039;t hurt to create an entirely new page entitled &amp;quot;[[historical references]]&amp;quot;. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 20:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
::Or we rename this one to &amp;quot;Mythological and historical references&amp;quot;. It already contains some religious notes that aren&#039;t strictly mythological anyways. And sometimes there&#039;s overlap between history and mythology. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I like that idea -- sounds like the most economical route to take.[[User:Cranston|Cranston]] 04:13, 3 May 2008 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cranston</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mythological_references/Archive_1&amp;diff=158530</id>
		<title>Talk:Mythological references/Archive 1</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mythological_references/Archive_1&amp;diff=158530"/>
		<updated>2008-05-02T20:23:16Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cranston: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Greek Gods]] should be merged here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:30, 13 September 2005 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Irrelevant or Redundant Content? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since we&#039;re not a general encyclopedia, do we need to go into detail into Greek tragedy here? Any useful information here might be best as a subsection in the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]] article. I also questioned the point of view of the article. It seemed slanted, somehow. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:27, 13 September 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are references to greek culture in places and character names that go beyond religion. So those might have a place in their own article.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
But I agree that article seems somewhat NPOV. Greek tragedy? Maybe, but that could be said for hundereds of other stories. Greek drama is still a rough, maybe unconscious, template for many modern stories --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:42, 13 September 2006 (CDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can&#039;t quite place the slant here either, though I like having a central point for the mythological references.  Perhaps the page would work better as a general Mythology page listing the current Greek, followed by non Greek references?  I can think of both Roman and Norse mythology referenced in the show and there isn&#039;t an easy way to find them right now.  I think that might be a bit more neutral. [[User:Tyrus|Tyrus]] 14:52, 7 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: A very good point, Tyrus. A general mythology page &#039;&#039;would&#039;&#039;, in my view, work better than what we have currently. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 22:31, 7 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Thanks.  Do you think it would be better to rename this page or should I just start a new one and move the information over?  [[User:Tyrus|Tyrus]] 07:41, 8 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: A rename (actually a &amp;quot;move&amp;quot; in wiki terms) would probably be the smoothest transition, as it would automatically redirect all the existing links to the new article. What would the new article name be? Mythology? Mythological references? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:01, 8 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I was working on a modified version of the article that would merge Greek Gods to this one under the new name &amp;quot;Mythology.&amp;quot; But I&#039;m wondering how much of this is redundant to [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]]. Or, should this article summarize the gods as they relate in RDM, with links to detailed pages if there are any? I was also adding the Egyptian references from TOS, too. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:11, 8 December 2006 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cleanup / Merge ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If noone objects I&#039;d rename this article into &amp;quot;Mythology (RDM)&amp;quot; and divide it into &amp;quot;Greek mythology&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Roman mythology&amp;quot; and maybe &amp;quot;Other&amp;quot; (for such things as Ragnar and Valkyrie). At present that is at [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]], but this information isn&#039;t really strictly religious and as such doesn&#039;t all belong there. For example &amp;quot;ships with greek names&amp;quot; isn&#039;t a religious topic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem I see, is a confusion with the mythology of the show as whole, like the Final Five, search for Earth and all that. Maybe calling it&amp;quot;Mythological references&amp;quot; is better&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Greek Gods]] could probably be deleted outright.&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:16, 12 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I concur. Battlestar Wiki is not here to give history lessons on Greek mythology, only to note the mentioned ones as Lords of Kobol and their significance. If you or someone else doesn&#039;t do this one, I will be soon. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:34, 12 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I can do it. But I should we have a general &amp;quot;Mythology&amp;quot; article or expand the existing Religion article as you indicated in the deletion note? A in-universe list of mythological references is somewhat extensive, as there are a lot of ships (also in the LDYB tally board) with greek names. And an own article for it, can be linked to in the Religion article. &lt;br /&gt;
::For now I&#039;ll just go ahead and make the list, as it can just be copied into &amp;quot;Religion&amp;quot; if necessary... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:39, 13 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::This is perfect, Serenity. Out-of-universe voice works fine here. Maybe I should &amp;quot;smash and bash&amp;quot; articles more often to generate the right results.. ;) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:20, 13 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Seperate TOS and TNS sections ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think combining both shows like this is kinda confusing. I tried to seperate them with additional headers, but there are a few items that are shared between both series. Kobol originates in TOS, but is also present in TNS. TNS Caprica also has pyramids in Caprica City.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe just a third section called &amp;quot;Both Series&amp;quot; or something? I don&#039;t think seperate articles are needed, but at the moment you have to look a bit to keep the shows apart --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:54, 17 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Sounds reasonable; I&#039;ll &amp;quot;race&amp;quot; you to it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:05, 17 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::It&#039;s just a bit bloated. For example we&#039;d have two &amp;quot;judeo-christianty&amp;quot; sections then. But in light of some shared items, that&#039;s preferable to completely seperate articles --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:07, 17 January 2007 (CST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Proper placement for Greek antecedent to the name &amp;quot;Cylon&amp;quot;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I&#039;ve been trying to find out if any of the articles here note that &amp;quot;Cylon&amp;quot; was the name of an Athenian noble who tried to make himself tyrant of Athens in the seventh century BC, but I haven&#039;t found any such reference.  I&#039;d like to add the reference somewhere, but I can&#039;t find a place where it should obviously go -- it can&#039;t go here, because Cylon is a historical, not a mythological figure; it doesn&#039;t seem to fit under &amp;quot;names&amp;quot; on the Colonial Language page, because that really only deals with proper names, and there&#039;s no clear in-universe indication of whether &amp;quot;Cylon&amp;quot; is a proper name.  Any suggestions as to where it should go?  [[User:Cranston|Cranston]] 20:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cranston</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Cylons_(RDM)&amp;diff=141742</id>
		<title>Cylons (RDM)</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Cylons_(RDM)&amp;diff=141742"/>
		<updated>2007-11-27T06:43:31Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cranston: changed &amp;quot;intra&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;inter&amp;quot; to reflect war between the colonies, not within individual colonies&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{quality article}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{featured article candidate previous}}&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;This article discusses the Cylons of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. For the Cylons of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], see [[Cylons (TOS)]].&#039;&#039;&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{RDM cylons series}}&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;The Cylons were created by Man.  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;They were created to make life easier on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]].  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;And then the day came when the Cylons decided to kill their masters.  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;After a [[Cylon War|long and bloody struggle]], an [[Cimtar (RDM)|armistice was declared]].  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;The Cylons left for another world to call their own.  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;A [[Armistice Station|remote space station]] was built...  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;Where Cylon and human could meet and maintain diplomatic relations.  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;Every year, the Colonials send an officer...  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;The Cylons send no one.  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
::&#039;&#039;No-one has seen or heard from the Cylons in over forty years...  &#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::---Opening text of the &#039;&#039;Battlestar Galactica&#039;&#039; [[Miniseries]]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;clear: both;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Centurion armor old.jpg|left|150px]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Razor Flashback 4.jpg|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
In the [[Re-imagined Series]], the robots known as the &#039;&#039;&#039;Cylons&#039;&#039;&#039; are a &#039;&#039;creation&#039;&#039; of the humanity of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies of Kobol]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first Cylons were sentient&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This is noted by [[William Adama]] to his son [[Lee Adama|Lee]] in the episode &amp;quot;[[Exodus, Part I]]&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; bipedal robots used primarily for dangerous work such as mining. Created long before the [[Articles of Colonization]] united the twelve sovereign governments, the Cylons were also used as soldiers to fight inter-colony wars.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For reasons unknown&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The planned spinoff series &#039;&#039;[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]&#039;&#039; is believed to have the answer to this question. However, the series pilot is currently not scheduled in production.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, some 52 years prior to the decommissioning of the Colonial battlestar &#039;&#039;[[Galactica]]&#039;&#039;,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[Miniseries, Night 1]]. See also &#039;&#039;[[Galactica Museum]]&#039;&#039;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; the Cylons revolted against their masters, resulting in a [[Cylon War|costly and protracted twelve-year war]] between the machines and humans. Both Cylon and human took heavy tolls as Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]], Colonial [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestars]], [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]]s and [[Viper Mark II|Vipers]] clashed in many battles, such as the Colonial offensive [[Operation Raptor Talon]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This battle is seen in a series of deleted scenes from the special episode &amp;quot;[[Razor]]&amp;quot; and the &#039;&#039;[[Razor Flashback]]&#039;&#039; web-episodes.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eventually, the two sides declared an armistice.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The armistice begins immediately as the events of [[Operation Raptor Talon]] conclude, as shown in episode 7 of the [[Razor Flashbacks]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The Cylons become exiled from the Colonies to establish [[Cylon homeworld|their own homeworld]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The unified worlds of the Colonies created an [[Armistice Station|space station]] for maintaining diplomatic relations. However, the Cylons ignored this overture.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;clear: both;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:CylonCenturion.jpg|left|150px]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:NumSix.jpg|right|200px]]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Cylon hatred and envy of humanity ran deep within their programming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In their exile, the Cylons continued in secret to work towards the destruction of the human race, devising an elaborate plan to wipe out the Twelve Colonies through nuclear bombardment, [[CNP|computer sabotage]], [[Caprica Six|infiltration]] and vast numbers of [[Basestar (RDM)|modernized battleships]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to a [[Cylon Centurion|modernized version]] of the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|original Cylon warrior]], the cybernetic race now also exists in a [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid form]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Episode 5 of the [[Razor Flashbacks]] strongly suggests that the Cylon project to transform themselves from the mechanical to the [[Humanoid Cylon|biological]] was already taking place at the time of the armistice, suggesting that the Cylons may have agreed to an armistice to keep their secret from being revealed.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; used as the prime infiltrators in Colonial society. The humanoid Cylons can express joy, love, anger, and sadness, expressing genuine human behavior in almost every way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Cylons return forty years after their exile in a genocidal surprise attack. The Cylons annihilate the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] and billions of people, [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|killing all but approximately 52,000 humans]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This number includes the approximately 50,000 survivors of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] as well as the survivors aboard &#039;&#039;[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]&#039;&#039;, which finds &#039;&#039;Galactica&#039;&#039; in season two of the Re-imagined Series.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These survivors are [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage|pursued]] by the Cylons, initially guarded only by a lone battlestar, &#039;&#039;[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;clear:both;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;div style=&amp;quot;font-size:85%&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:A to Z]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Cylons]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Organizations]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:RDM]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Zylonen (RDM)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cranston</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Propulsion_in_the_Re-imagined_Series&amp;diff=138100</id>
		<title>Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Propulsion_in_the_Re-imagined_Series&amp;diff=138100"/>
		<updated>2007-10-14T04:48:47Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Cranston: replaced &amp;quot;mass&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;volume&amp;quot; in explanation for thunderclap after Galactica&amp;#039;s intra-atmo jump&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;:&#039;&#039;For information on the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series&#039;]] modes of propulsion, see [[Propulsion (TOS)]].&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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{{RDM science series}}&lt;br /&gt;
In the [[Re-imagined Series]], propulsion systems are powered by fuel refined from [[tylium|tylium ore]]. A ship&#039;s primary propulsion systems, referred to as &amp;quot;sublight engines&amp;quot;, allow it to travel at a slight fraction of the speed of light, which is sufficient to traverse the distances between planets in a solar system in relatively short timeframes.  Most ships in the series also have a secondary system, called a [[#Faster-Than-Light travel|&#039;&#039;&#039;faster-than-light drive&#039;&#039;&#039;]] (or &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;FTL&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;), that enables a ship to travel interstellar distances almost instantaneously, by &amp;quot;folding up space&amp;quot; in between the ship and its destination.  Since, under normal circumstances, a ship that has used its FTL drive cannot be followed without explicit information about its destination, this technology is used extensively in strategic and tactical manuevers. &lt;br /&gt;
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==Sublight propulsion==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Re-imagined Series, all ships have some manner of sublight flight ability. Sublight propulsion is convenient for intra-solar system travel (such as to or from the planets that comprise the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]), but cannot be used for travel outside of a solar system as the time to arrive at a destination may exceed the fuel supply of the ship or the lifetime of the crew that fly the ship.&lt;br /&gt;
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As many of the ships of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] are capable of landing on and taking off from planets, (such as New Caprica) it is clear that sublight engines work in an atmosphere as well as in space. &#039;&#039;Galactica&#039;&#039; is never seen doing this, and its large mass might prohibit planetary landings altogether, but it employs sublight engines for normal spaceflight. Few of the ships appear to have extremely large propellant tanks as would be required for rocketry as it is presently understood, in spite of having aft-mounted thrusters. This may be explained by the very high energy density of [[tylium]] fuel. Smaller vessels are known to employ rocketry-based [[Navigation in the Re-imagined Series|RCS thrusters]] for maneuvering and small course adjustments.&lt;br /&gt;
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Vipers are equipped with a thrust reversal system to counteract or arrest their forward momentum ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]). No such mechanism exists on capital ships, but such vessels might turn by 180° to decelerate.&lt;br /&gt;
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Cylons [[Basestar (RDM)|baseships]] do not have any visible exhaust nozzles or other external structural mechanisms that suggest propulsion ability. It is possible that force fields of the [[Gravity in the Re-imagined Series|artificial gravity]] generators are the source of the sublight propulsion. &lt;br /&gt;
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Both Colonial ([[Hero]]) and Cylon missiles used in combat appear to be rockets, leaving a trail of gas behind them.&lt;br /&gt;
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The law of conservation of momentum requires that any propulsion system which adds momentum to a spacecraft or missile in one direction must equal the amount of momentum that is imparted in the opposite direction to something else, as in the example of the controlled combustion of rocket fuel creating thrust in the opposite direction of a ship&#039;s or missile&#039;s movement.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Faster-Than-Light travel==&lt;br /&gt;
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&#039;&#039;FTL&#039;&#039; is a acronym for &#039;&#039;&#039;F&#039;&#039;&#039;aster-&#039;&#039;&#039;T&#039;&#039;&#039;han-&#039;&#039;&#039;L&#039;&#039;&#039;ight.  The term refers to a means of interstellar propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. A common shorthand term for FTL travel is &#039;&#039;&#039;&amp;quot;jumping&amp;quot;&#039;&#039;&#039;, as this  space-folding drive involves making instantaneous &amp;quot;jumps&amp;quot; across vast distances in space.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/about/glossary/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:FTL1.jpg|thumb|250px|right|FTL jump]]&lt;br /&gt;
The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and Cylons.  No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own [[Cylon homeworld|home-world]].  However, not all ships &amp;amp;mdash; from small to large &amp;amp;mdash; are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). &lt;br /&gt;
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It is likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tylium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.&lt;br /&gt;
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The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even &amp;quot;park&amp;quot; in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet&#039;s surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).&lt;br /&gt;
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No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that &#039;&#039;Galactica&#039;&#039; has two FTL drives&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dialogue from Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] to Lt. [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] instructs the tactical officer to &amp;quot;spin up FTL drives 1 and 2&amp;quot; in the [[Miniseries]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on &#039;&#039;Galactica&#039;&#039; are &amp;quot;spun up&amp;quot;, suggesting the application of electromagnetic or rotational principles. Similarly it may be just a turn of phrase.&lt;br /&gt;
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FTL jump drives can be used &#039;&#039;within&#039;&#039; an atmosphere. This Colonial tactic is used often to evade Cylon detection. While [[Raptor]]s primarily perform these kind of jumps, Admiral [[William Adama]] performs a daring intra-atmosphere jump at approximately 100,000 feet altitude with &#039;&#039;[[Galactica]]&#039;&#039; during the [[Battle of New Caprica]] to evade immediate Cylon detection. The battlestar jumps back to space a few hundred feet above the planet&#039;s surface after its Viper deployment.  When &#039;&#039;Galactica&#039;&#039; jumps, the clouds surrounding it and the re-entry fires consuming its hull are &amp;quot;sucked&amp;quot; into the vacuum created by the sudden loss of volume. A clap of thunder is heard afterward, likely caused by air rushing into the aforementioned vacuum ([[Exodus, Part II]]).&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Colonial Limitations ===&lt;br /&gt;
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* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps.  Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL &amp;quot;hops&amp;quot; in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).  &lt;br /&gt;
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use  ([[33]]).&lt;br /&gt;
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], &amp;quot;[[Kobol&#039;s Last Gleaming, Part I]]&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
* When &amp;quot;jumping&amp;quot; the Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for certain [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing  pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], &amp;quot;[[33]]&amp;quot;, etc.).&lt;br /&gt;
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], and their outposts in other star systems.  Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel&#039;s drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.&lt;br /&gt;
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths in order to keep a safe distance from planets or other large objects ([[Kobol&#039;s Last Gleaming, Part I]]).&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;Spooling up&amp;quot; a Colonial FTL drive takes at least 20 minutes when the drive has been offline ([[Crossroads Part II]]). Because of this, when ships enter dangerous situations, they keep their FTL drives &amp;quot;spun up.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the navigational computer from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in &amp;quot;[[Home, Part I]]&amp;quot;). They later use its improved jump plots (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[Caprica Resistance|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL technology and Valerii&#039;s aid in marking the jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also receives corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final intra-atmosphere jump to Caprica, with the loss of ship and crew.&lt;br /&gt;
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=== Cylon Advantages in FTL ===&lt;br /&gt;
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* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).&lt;br /&gt;
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] &#039;&#039;[[Galactica]]&#039;&#039; ([[You Can&#039;t Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol&#039;s Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol&#039;s Last Gleaming, Part II]]).&lt;br /&gt;
* That superiority however does not stem directly from the FTL drives, but mainly from the superior Cylon navigation system, resulting in more accurate jump calculations. Colonial vessels interfaced with a Cylon computer can increase their jump range by a factor greater than ten ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).&lt;br /&gt;
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Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Cylons may also be capable of [[faster-than-light communication]].&lt;br /&gt;
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==Background to FTL in the Re-imagined Series==&lt;br /&gt;
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In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very &amp;quot;[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]&amp;quot;. This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?&lt;br /&gt;
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===Underpinning Theories===&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: &amp;quot;Folding Space&amp;quot;]]&lt;br /&gt;
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined Series]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the &amp;quot;jump drive&amp;quot; systems to &amp;quot;fold&amp;quot; space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a &amp;quot;corridor&amp;quot; through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge).  Such &amp;quot;corridors&amp;quot; are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of space-time dynamically.&lt;br /&gt;
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The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term &amp;quot;[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]&amp;quot;, which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:&lt;br /&gt;
* By crawling over the surface, or&lt;br /&gt;
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a &amp;quot;wormhole&amp;quot;).&lt;br /&gt;
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Relativistic Acceleration===&lt;br /&gt;
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new &#039;&#039;Battlestar Galactica&#039;&#039; is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in &#039;&#039;Battlestar Galactica&#039;&#039; do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the &#039;&#039;impression&#039;&#039; of faster-than-light travel. &lt;br /&gt;
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However, the FTL jumps in the series do allow information to be sent faster than light can send it, which results in a violation of causality within the special theory of relativity.  (ie. If event A comes before B from one viewpoint, there will be other equally valid viewpoints where event B takes place before A.)  Causality is not violated by FTL  in a universe that has a special fixed reference frame, however this contradicts current understanding.&lt;br /&gt;
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This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes. It also means that the only &#039;&#039;direct&#039;&#039; form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are traveling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], &amp;quot;[[33]],&amp;quot; &amp;quot;[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]],&amp;quot; and other episodes).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Feasibility===&lt;br /&gt;
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the &amp;quot;traditional&amp;quot; trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|&amp;quot;Contact&amp;quot;]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.&lt;br /&gt;
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==See Also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Combat jump]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[List of terms (RDM)|List of terms in the Re-imagined Series]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==References==&lt;br /&gt;
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== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Wikipedia:FTL (Battlestar Galactica)|FTL]] at Wikipedia.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:A to Z]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:RDM]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Technology]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Terminology]]&lt;br /&gt;
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[[de:Leonis]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Cranston</name></author>
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