Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Science in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2006-03-14T02:14:24Z

Cp.hayes: /* Cylon missiles have contrails in space */

For an archived earlier discussion thread prior to February 8, 2006, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Science_in_the_Re-imagined_Series&oldid=30324 click here.]

==Artificial Gravity==
Be careful not to confuse Naturalistic SF with Hard SF. They have little to do with one another. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:09, 9 December 2005 (EST)
:Of course, in fact, they are quite opposite, but NSF takes a few elements from hard SF, though not in the extreme that hard SF defines itself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 December 2005 (EST)
Another wrinkle in the whole artificial gravity can of worms: The ability to manipulate gravity fields opens the door to many other technologies, too. For example, a rudimentary tractor beam could be constructed by using your artificial gravity field to pull objects toward your ship. The reverse is probably possible -- using it to repel objects and projectiles for a sort of a deflector shield. Since the Colonials have none of these abilities and yet have apparently had artificial gravity for a long time (before the contruction of the Galactica), it stands to reason that whatever means they use to generate gravity is severely limited. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 11:45, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Welcome to the Wiki, Zeratul. I agree; this limits whatever they use to gravity simulators rather than generators, given their power limitations and storyline limits. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:06, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::Thanks for the welcome, Spencerian. Long time reader first time contributor here. :) Another thing to consider is that whatever they use for gravity continues to work even when main power and control is lost, as in [[Valley of Darkness]]. Likely it would have a separate power source and controls as the life support systems do, meaning it's either passive or doesn't require much power to operate.
:::It's difficult to see, but in the miniseries the doomed botanical freighter seems to have domes on both the top and bottom of the ship, which would imply they have the ability to maintain several different gravitational vectors within a ship.
:::Another good reference would be Boomer's raptor in the miniseries, when she powers it down for the approach to Caprica. I think they were strapped in at the time though, so the gravity may or may not have been shut off.
:::I suspect, though, that this is something that will never really be explained but rather remain a plot-driven convenience. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

==Sublight vs. FTL==
The fact that Colonial One, an FTL-capable ship, made its way from Caprica to Galactica at Sublight tells us something else - 5.5 hours of engine burn consume less energy than a hyperspace jump to cover the same distance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:58, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Not necessarily. Two reasons why--first, FTL might not have been an option: either it was illegal, seen as too dangerous for travel within a system, deemed too uncomfortable for passengers, or pilots simply weren't trained to calculate a jump, any of which are potentially valid given Tigh's comment that it had been 20 years since a jump. Of course, that may raise a question as to why the drive was installed in the first place. (Regulations? Holdover from the first war?) Secondly, it seems unrealistic that it would take more energy to jump that small distance than to burn the fuel because the entire fleet can jump like 230 times in a row ([[33]]) without any refueling problems or the like. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 21:19, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I think that FTL flight is generally quite disconcerting to passengers, judging from Cally's take on it when we see ''Galactica'' make its first Jump in the Miniseries. So, sublight is preferable in most instances. I cannot determine from any episodes whether the fuel consumption is more or less when going at sublight over FTL. The comfort level is the most likely reason. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 1 January 2006 (EST)

==Nukes==
If the energy density of [[Tylium]] is so much greater than fissile materials and has the added benefit of producing no fallout, and requiring no sophisticated trigger mechanism, why do the Colonials use nuclear warheads on their missiles rather than tylium bombs? Nuclear fallout has desirable side effects against organic targets, which explains Cylon use thereof, but what advantage does it offer human forces?

:(Obviously, in real life it's a question of storytelling:
:"For instance, in the Galactica mini-series, when the Cylons attack the colonists, they attack them with thermonuclear weapons. They don't attack them with lasers and photon torpedoes, and strange things that don't exist.
:"When you see a planet nuked, and you see those mushroom clouds, and hear about the destruction of entire cities by nuclear weapons, that is a much more terrifying and frightening idea than if you're saying fifteen thousand photon torpedoes were launched at Caprica. One is real and one is not." [http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2004/02/20/9599.shtml]
:"There would not be 'photon torpedoes' but instead nuclear missiles, because nukes are real and thus are frightening." [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/magazine/17GALACTICA.html]
:"We use nukes. And these days, that’s truly scary. You use photon torpedoes and the audience goes 'oh, okay. shrug.'" [http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA513174.html?display=Top+Stories]) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:09, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Nukes have the desireable side effect of creating an electromagnetic pulse which disrupts all (currently) known forms of electronics. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:41, 8 January 2006 (EST)
: And a side note, now that I think of it. Considering the supposed rarity of tylium, Nukes are also much easier to produce and much less of a waste of a valuable resource. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:12, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::You hit the nail on the head, Durandal. If you can, work up what you just said and add it to the article! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:15, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::: Does not really fit in this article, whithout generating a new section for such a point. If anyone has a better idea for placement, I'm all ears. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:25, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:My own thoughts on the subject are A) Tylium is somewhat rare so it is difficult to mass produce nuclear warheads, but more importantly B) Baltar said that detonating a nuclear warhead near Tylium would "render it inert", not create a chain reaction. I think that Tylium must be "reactive/unstable" enough that it's a good fuel source (moreso than just Plutonium), however, it probably has the chemical property that it is very difficult to produce an explosive uncontrollable chain reaction with it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:13, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::That would disagree with the extremely large tylium explosion seen at the end of "The Hand of God". I prefer Durandal's explanation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:24, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:::In Ricimer's defense, the explosion was caused by the precursor, the refined but unprocessed component that forms the fuel later. Precursor is more unstable or explosive than the fuel. There are chemicals throughout the Periodic Table that release tremendous energies, more so than plutonium. The problem is the process of controlling it. Else, hydrogen would be our fuel of choice for everything: common, cheap, and leaves a benign by-product. For the Colonies, tylium was their answer. I disagree that tylium is rare, although I think it is hard to find; the Fleet's luck in finding one rock of it also implies that a little tylium goes an awfully long way, but mining and processing it is a real bitch. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:40, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Landings & Gravity ==

Unless I am completely mistaken, aside from whatever may be the 'standard' artifical gravity source aboard Galactica, it is explicitly stated that the actual landing pads in the flight pods rely upon magnitism to hold craft in place en route to the hanger.
:"Viper Four-five-zero, skids down, mag-lock secure." (Kelly to Apollo upon touchdown aproximately 22 minutes into the miniseries)
[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:56, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:Correct. On the flight deck, magnetism is used to secure landing Vipers. But in the hangar deck and manned areas of the ship, something else is used, since the humans (and many other virtually non-magnetic items in CIC and elsewhere) are kept from floating. It's an unexplained conumdrum that right now is just a writing convenience. If the article appears to be vague in that topic, do modify it. I created and generated much of this article, and sometimes I can get too wordy and the point gets muddled. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:19, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:: I actually wrote this bit in response to note 2, which states it as a possibility as opposed to cannon-fact. I'm not quite sure HOW to rewrite it, unfortunately... [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:23, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Expensive claim... ==

I find the recent expense claim [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|uncitable]] at best. There's absolutely no indication either way that financial expense played into utilizing FTL Jump technology in BSG. Therefore, unless we can get someone to point out where this info came from, I vote for its removal. Also, just because ''Galactica'' didn't perform a jump in 20 years doesn't really mean that it is normal for Colonail ships (military or otherwise) to rely on sublight travel alone. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:15, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I read it differently - the statement seems to infer expense from the fact that FTL travel is not used frequently, not vice-versa. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::I think they just didn't do it, because why risk the (albeit very very small) safety concerns of warping through space? (a wrong calculation and we could wind up in the sun", etc.) Remember, they really have FTL drive for two reasons: 1) It's a holdover from the Exodus (''theory'' but not established fact and frankly I don't believe that), 2) they do have a "sphere of influence" beyond the 12 Colonies, not full-fledged other planets, just mining-camp colonies like Troy. So that's why they put in FTL; plus it's good to have instantaneous travel. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::: It would be logical to assume that, with so many ships "up in the air", as it were, Jumping into another ship or even trade route may be a concern. I don't fully agree with the "holdover from the Exodus" theory either and it seems likely that FTL technology was put into place as a means of instantaneous transportation during wartime. (Imagine jumping out of harms way instead of fleeing from the enemy at sublight speeds; in fact, this is quite similar to ''Farscape'' and the Leviathan's ability to starburst.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:52, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:I think the current reasons are sufficient enough; there doesn't necessarily need to be a separate bullet point about "expense," especially because it is so vague and unexplained. Is it the cost of buying fuel that's expensive? Probably not, based on what we've seen so far in terms of tylium consumption. They seem to jump quite a bit and don't need to refuel very often. (Basically, just in Hand of God, and that's after jumping constantly for weeks. I mean, they could have been distributing Galactica's tylium to the other ships, but if Galactica has ''that'' much, it can't be that exorbitant of a fuel source, particularly so in peacetime when the ships were first loaded.) Is it wear and tear on the ship that costs money to fix? Maybe, but for the fleet to have lasted this long without any ships breaking down undercuts that theory. I mean, how else do you define expense? I'm not missing something here, am I? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:19, 2 February 2006 (EST)

==The Cancer Cure of Laura Roslin==

One possibility we may want to consider is that of the Humano-Cylons being party based on nanotechnology. If the Cylons have nanobots in their blood, it would explain the selective destruction of cancer cells, and the quick repair of normal cells, and how such a small amount could completely cure the disease. Additionally, a Cylon-Human hybrid would have nanobots less likely to reject a normal human's system.

It would also explain the seeming contradiction in the Humano-Cylon's nature -- that they are close enough to human that even an autoposy cannot tell them apart, and yet somehow machine enough to upload their memories and consciousness.

Though this is my personal favorite theory, there's absolutely no canonical basis for it. --[[User:zeratul|zeratul]]

:It seems that the stem cell theory was the "answer" to this, as stated in the article, now with RDM voicing in on the original explanation that was edited away or revised before filming because it was too technical. Further, your theory conflicts with the established point that Cylon and human physiology is practically identical in appearance and function down to the cellular level, implying that nanotechnology would be identifiable medically. This is supported as well since, unless such nanotech is masked to work with human physiology, Roslin's body would have an autoimmune reaction, fighting off the fetal blood like in an Rh factor reaction. Aside from the established effects of the fetal blood used, only Baltar's [[Cylon detector]] can accurately discern Cylon from human. Funny, I just listened today to an article on National Public Radio that says that fetal stem cells "leak" from the placenta of each baby (born or unborn) into the mother's body, which become an "elite" (but small) force of cells that aid in protecting or repairing damage or disease in the mother for years, according to early research. I ''have'' to get that link to this article--it is very ''apropos'' here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Yes, I agree with you that the stem cells are the official explanation. I'm not sure if I buy it, however, as real-life stem cells can't spontaneously cure something as complex as cancer just by injecting them. Baltar's been wrong before. Yes, yes, genetically engineered Cylons are a possibility (but wouldn't that be easily detectable at the Colonials' current level of technology?). I guess for now we'll have to write it off as a "magical" effect of hybrids... Sigh :)
::If the nanomachines were small enough they wouldn't be visible even under a microscope (haven't seen an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_electron_microscope SEM] on the show yet), and could probably be designed to not show up to chemical tests as well -- especially if they were programmed to actively mask themselves. Again, probably not what they'll go with, just a theory I've been kicking around. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:43, 8 February 2006 (EST)

With the caveat that I haven't seen the episode yet:why would Roslin's body have an autoimmune reaction when nanotechnology is used? In any case, the stem cell theory doesn't work. If Roslin indeed was at death's door, the damage to the healthy tissue is too great for stem cells to repair that in the necessary time frame. Protein needs to by synthesized, cells need to divide, etc. Plus, while stem cells can theoretically be used to create any organ, they still need the programming, which is not given in an adult body. They can be programmed in vitro, but they won't just form a liver if you inject them into the liver -the hormone gradients that existed during embryogenesis don't exist anymore, likewise the angiogenetic factors aren't around that would cause the cells to be supplied with the necessary nutrients. Although, ironically, the tumor might have spilled enough of those. And even if you get the cells to grow in the right places, you'd have to get them to stop growing as well, otherwise you've just replaced one cancer with another etc. etc... I think the cancer cure is just as much dramatic license as the "cylon and human physiology being identical". Given the silica pathways and the computer connectivity, there are quite obvious differences. I think that RDM did well to cut out the science since it is meaningless to the layperson and would likely have resulted in rolling eyes with people with expertise in the field. It is a contrived plot device, and trying to explain it away is likely to be futile. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:18, 8 February 2006 (EST)

As an added point, I consider the issue with fetal cells as repairmen in the mother to be heavily overstated in the article here. The NPR contribution merely lists it as a hypothesis. There is no "appear", and there is several problems with at least the written part of the NPR contribution: It suggests that the fetal cells "could behave" as stem cells. However, there's more cells in a fetus than just stem cells, and in any case, at this stage, the cells aren't totipotent, i.e. capable of making ANYthing anymore, they have already diversified. It takes early embryonic stem cells for totipotency. I am also sceptical as far as these cells remaining "for life" goes: They'd be good candidates as a cancer ''cause'' rather than cure if they do. The other point is, as I tried to explain above, that these cells turn into specific tissue not just as an execution of an internal program, but as a response to external stimuli, such as hormones secreted by other cells in the vicinity. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:True, Oliver, the NPR article is actually educated speculation (hypothesis at best). As someone whose medical/biology experience is that of a layman, I welcome you, both to the wiki, as well as to improve in the scientific explanations on this page. Interesting stuff you noted there. We know, of course, that this is all dramatic license, but for writers to go the extra mile and make an attempt to base the cure on some credible level of scientific theorem on the topic (unlike *cough*Star Trek*cough*some shows I know) is a notable thing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:31, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble: Knowing fully well that any prediction on computer power and storage capacity would likely be outdated even before the end of the series, they invented totally fictious parameters. Likewise with many other things. While this still leaves the opportunity to violate basic laws of physics, at least it prevents the "no way it could work that way" effect. There's a reason people study for science, and a reason scientists specialize: It's such a vast field that it's practically impossible to know one's way around everything. So a writer has the choice between winging it or hiring a huge staff of scientists and engineers who give him some well-founded speculation on how things could possibly be explained. That ain't gonna fly, obviously, so one way or the other of winging it will have to do for most productions. Now of course a writer can pick up the latest newspaper articles he read and implement them, but the problem is that most newspaper articles on scientific issues aren't precisely written by people with a grasp of the field either. What's worse, even most scientists don't really concern themselves with the theoretic bases of a solid standard of evidence. Alas, this is especially true in the medical field, where people who went to med school do a lot of research while, unlike people who studied sciences, they could grab little scientific theory at least implicitly. Or, to point at something that bugs folks like me quite regularly: If an M.D. has one patient who shows strange symptoms or responds to an unusualy therapy, he happily submits a publication that goes by the type "case report". If, say, a molecular biologist in the biomedical field hears of such an incident, he will at first glance attribute it to a combination of factors valid for that patient only and dismiss it as anecdotal until he hears of a significant number of cases showing some specific pattern and statistical relevance. Which is why especially in this field, going by mainstream press publications is like tangoing through a minefield. If you comb the literature with fine enough a comb, you will come across plenty of "miracle" cases. However, hold a magnifying glass of stringent scientific standards of evidence at them and they go up in hot air. (Background: I'm currently on the last lap of a Ph.D. in the cancer research field, working on new diagnostic methods.) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::No, it is ridiculous to say that Star Trek handled technobabble well. That's why we call it technobabble. OTHER than that one point: they realized that computer power would increase so exponentionally by the 24th century that they just made up non-real units ("kiloquads", etc). '''Otherwise, it was laughable. Listen to RDM''' when he's talking about how Levar Burton seemed kind of good at spouting it off in season 1, so they just gave ''all of it to him''. Now, to understand my reaction, I actually watch TNG repeats pretty much every other day. Just finished watching the end of "A Matter of Perspective"; yikes. Crazy technobabble (well, the signal bounced off of some mirrors, but it was so powerful, that when reversed it must have acted like a laser beam" etc. etc.)--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Please cite where I said that Star Trek handled technobabble well. You will have difficulties doing so. I suggest you stop just slamming everything you don't like and stick to the facts. The simple fact that you don't like a solution doesn't make it "technobabble" per se, nor does taking any odd scientific hypothesis as truth make something good drama. If you get stomach cramps watching TNG, why do you watch it 'every other day'? --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::"Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble" seems to heavily imply this position. And it's the only thing on.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:18, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:Humanoid Cylon physiology does not contain "nanomachines"; human cells are also machines, if bio-chemical ones. What the Cylons appear to have done is to have artificially developed the genetic code for an artificial organism which is mostly like humans, but has had certain "upgrades" to it's DNA. I've seen nothing to even come close to speculation that they use "nanomachiens"; this verges into Star Trek ''Borg, Seven of Nine-esque'' [[technobabble]], (shudder). And...no, wait...(''shudder''). Sorry, lots of bad memories. Well, It's just needlessly complicated for this show and I don't think they'd stoop to that level. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:42, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, the thing is, it's a huge difference whether it's a biochemical machine or not. The human immune system is very efficient in fighting foreign "biochemical machines" in that it can recognize proteins that aren't part of the body. We know that some nonbiological materials such as graphite or teflon can also trigger an immune response, but this can easily be avoided by using different material. In an ideal scenario (not given here), nanorobots could even simply be coated with "self" proteins and be waved through by the immune system. There's a whole lot of literature on nanomedicine prospects at http://www.nanomedicine.com/index.htm including entire books for free, or, for the less ambitious, the FAQ at http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/NanoMedFAQ.html. And frankly, as a molecular biologist, I shudder at "upgrades" to DNA. A system that can give us everything from archaeobacteria to humans has already demonstrated that it is extremely flexible and yet efficient. I have a bit of an impression that "technobabble" is whatever solution one doesn't like ;) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::And, as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard. However, that doesn't mean that ''in theory'', such advances are impossible. Given enought time it could be done. '''Further''', you didn't really address the question. You just meandered around spouting off a lot of information on "nanomachines" without really explaining their practicality or applicability to this situation. And "a system already demonstreated this it is extremely flexible and efficient"....er, this isn't a rebutal. You just made a long sentence stating that "yup, that's DNA for ya", but that specific sentence doesn't actually address the issue of nanomchines, genetic engineering, etc. at all. Please get back on topic. We are not fooled by lots of information being thrown at us and can tell when it lacks actual substance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:41, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::: *sigh* I should have posted when I first read this, but figured everyone else could see what was going on. Apparently not. RiciMerovingian, please calm a moment. I think you jumped to the worst possible conclusion, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt. What I read as having occured is that Oliver misunderstood the statement about "updates to DNA" as meaning that the fundamental nature of DNA had been upgraded. I don't think he was intentionally obfuscating the topic with terminology that might be over a layman's head in order to "win". I think he was just confused.

:::: Anyway, what was actually meant, as ''I'' read it, was that the DNA that makes one human has been altered in Cylons to have certain upgrades, not that they have better DNA (such that it is not, really, DNA), but that their DNA is almost human, except enccoded to be, say, more resiliant to diseases, quicker healing in the case of physical damage and (as an example of an "upgrade" I'd personally skip, if I were them) unable to procreate. '''Anyway''', hopefully now everyone sees where we got off track, we can put unpleasantness behind and backup to where we were still on topic. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:28, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Day, the problem is that if their genes were in some way "better" as in more efficient etc. this could be easily discerned with 20th century level technology and could only go so far before the organism is not compatible with human organisms anymore as in clearly being recognized as foreign by the immune system and possibly even incompatible for procreation. In any case, it would also mean that physiology is far from identical. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::Merovingian, I realize you didn't like what I said, but claiming that my statements lacked substance when in fact, I made specific arguments and referenced them is quite off. I very much addressed the issue: You stated "human cells are also machines", implying that nanomachines would have no significantly different properties, which is plain false. I also explained further up why stem cells are not viable as an explanation. I never actually said that nanomachines are, in fact pointing out that the event was pure dramatic license. I simply rebutted the objections about nanomachines. As for lacking substance, ''as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard'' is devoid of any. It's simply a claim "I know better", without stating what it actually is you think you know nor whether it is actually supported by anyone else. Genetic engineering is no "upgrade of DNA". I suggest you decide what your concrete arguments are and support them and live with the fact that while you may not like the concept of nanomachines, it is far from technobabble. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::So called OliverH: A) No, you just threw around a lot of jargon, but after reading your penultimate entry, I realized you hadn't said anything of actual substance.
:::::B) I will ''elaborate'': When I say "The human cell is also a machine", this in NO WAY implies agreement with "nanomachines", as you state above. Some people (viewers who don't watch scifi or know even basic biology; not us) are stuck on the fact that "Cylons are machines!" and think of them as metal/plastic/silicon, and organic life as "tissue" etc. However, from my bio stuff, when I look at a human cell, I see a vastly complex clock of ATP, glucose, amino acids...an interacting mechanism of molecules of carbon chains, etc. Could not an artificial mechanism functioning along similar principles be created which was self sustaining?
:::::C) At no time did I say genetic engineering was an "upgrade of DNA", layman. I didn't want to spout off on a lot of terminology that would simply be lost in a quick conversation. Putting words in my mouth, you are. Genetic engineering isn't an "upgrade" of "DNA"; ''genomes'', on the other hand, can have new sequences added, etc. (The word "upgrade" implies some semi-magical, Chemical X-style super-charge). What I had in mind with the Cylons was that ''' The DNA sequence itself is just a starting point:''' what about [[Wikipedia:Imprinting_(genetics)|Genomic Imprinting]] in conjunction with [[Wikipedia:DNA_methylation|DNA methylation]], possibly even veering into [[Wikipedia:Epigenetic_inheritance|Epigenetic Inheritance]]? Long story short: DNA in eukaryotes (for example, humans) is coated in a sheath of histone proteins. Changes in these can change gene expression. More importantly, adding a ''methyl'' group to a section of DNA can determine how it is ''expressed''. Different amino acids then interact in different combinations than before. The human genome codes for many times more proteins than there is DNA coding for specific aa's. But using alternative splicing of mRNA, and altering the expression of DNA coding for different combinations of amino acids....things get a lot more interesting. We don't even fully understand how the 'histone code' works very well. That is my point: When I think of the Cylons I think of them using normal DNA, not nanomachines, but using like the English alphabet: there are 26 letters, and using these I can express all sorts of ideas on BattlestarWiki. These same 26 characters can also be used in a book like ''A Brief History of Time'', to create a new Quantum Theory or something; far more complex than the simple messages I might use on AIM or something....'''But using the same basic building blocks''' of Carbon, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, Oxygen. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:35, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::: Merv... *sigh* What's the point of comments like "So called OliverH" and directing "layman" at him? In regards to the former, one could equally assert that you're "so called" Merovingian or that I'm "so called" Day. These are handles, nicknames and pseudonyms we use on the ''internet''. Implying that someone's name here is somehow false seems either (because I know you're not dumb) disingenuous, juvenile or irrelevant, depending on interpretation. The latter of my examples seems only to be of the juvenile sort of comment. It's name calling, basically. And, before you start, don't attempt to say you were being honest as some kind of defense. With words like "layman" it's all a matter of perspective and I think it's clear from the general tone of your post that it was intended as a jab. Now... would the '''both of you''' (OliverH, included) calm down and not ''aim'' your posts at each other as if they were some kind of ballistae or something? It ''is'' possible to disagree with someone and not call them names. I have done it before. ''Even'' on the internet. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:31, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::::Sorry about that; I was in full-on Monty Python mode (French Castle: "So-called Arthur-King!", etc. etc. Yes they're all made up screenames; bit of (poor) internet humor I never get over). As for "layman", yes, even I thought that was a little too over the top, I must admit; just that he derided my ability to understand any of this, so I then responded by posting links to all of the things I was talking about in detail, etc. Unlike "Frackface" or something, "layman" implies levels of relatives knowledgibility, etc. Probably shouldn't have used that, sorry. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:49, 9 February 2006 (EST)

Ok, I'll try to simply restate the points since they seem to have been misunderstood and misrepresented consistently.
*I have no opinion as to how anything DOES work in this part of the story, mainly because I think that there is no explanation for it other than dramatic license -no matter what RDM says. He studied political sciences, his knowledge of natural science is -as many comments show- quite limited.
*Nanomachines aren't technobabble. They are a means to an end that is being heavily pursued by researchers as we write these pages. As the books I linked above show, in parallel to manufacturing obstacles including logistics being solved, people are anticipating possible medical uses and strategies to overcome obstacles in the achieving of the actual effect. They are pure, honest-to-god hard science-fiction, and only in that as of now, our clean room nanotechnology is just in development.
*Stem cells have a big advantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. Stem cells also have a big disadvantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. From that spectrum of possibilities arrives the problem of regulation. And regulation is a pain. The more your tool can do, the more you have your work cut out for you that it does specifically what you want it to do and not something else. Especially in the body, where a whole lot of other signals that the cell is equipped to listen to because it ''is'' a cell, it would be next to impossible to have the cells follow a specific course of action. Nanomachines on the other hand are a)specialists and b)oblivious to the signalling by hormones or other subtance gradients unless specifically designed to respond to them.
*Merovingians comments regarding using DNA like the english alphabet have a couple of problems: As Merovingian states, the english alphabet has 26 letters. The DNA alphabet has four. It's not an issue of the alphabet alone, however, but also of word size. The word size in the English language is variable, meaning a whole lot of different words can be constructed. The DNA word size is fixed at three. This limits the "meaning" to a very limited and defined set of possibilities. Now, of course we could draw up an alternative way of using the same concept, with more letters, or different word sizes. However, the consequence would be that whatever is the outcome of this is less related to us than every single lifeform we know of, from other primates to the "lowliest" bacteria. We could categorically rule out any conception of children, since the sets of genomes would require totally distinct "reading systems". The only viable alternative would be to reduce redundancy, the way amino acids have been added, or added frequency, over the course of evolution. However, redundancy also is a safeguard against effects of mutations -if the mutation doesn't make a difference, then there can be no harmful effect. So if we reduce redundancy, we increase susceptibility to mutations.
*All the mechanisms listed by Merovingian above exist, of course. But they exist as part of a complex network of regulatory mechanisms that makes it practically impossible to say "Well, if we throw this switch, then this, and only this will happen". The effect is illustrated by the fact that most of these mechanisms can also be involved in [[Wikipedia:Carcinogenesis|Carcinogenesis]]. So repercussions of fiddling here are not limited, but can in fact be quite major. This leads to the key problem I am trying to address:
While we can hypothesize all we want about possible mechanisms for the cancer cure to work, or about how cylons work, the fact is that our choices are chiefly between which parts of what we see is plausible. If we take a lot of what we see about the Cylons as actually working, we'd have to reject the notions that they cannot be told apart from humans and that they are capable of procreation with humans. If we take the latter for granted, than the ways in which their physiology and their genes can differ from ours is severely limited. We are what we are and who we are because of a finely tuned system. Even minor changes to that system are likely to have major effects. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 06:21, 11 February 2006 (EST)

==Genetics==
1.) My impression was that baltar was sketching schematic representations of human and cylon antigens, not individual nitrogenous bases (which wouldn't really be relevant for the treatment he was proposing)

2.) Are you certain the hexagonal image is of uracil, and not another [[Wikipedia:pyrimidine|pyrimidine]] such as [[Wikipedia:cytosine|cytosine]] or [[Wikipedia:thymine|thymine]]? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:2) Indeed. I've been going over my Human Molecular Genetics notes, and this is the only possibility. The difficulty you may have encountered is that Baltar is holding it upside down. Actually, I made a drawing of what we see "on screen" in the commercial (unfortunately, BSGwiki doesn't seem to want to upload bmp images; sorry).

:There is a very long line coming of of a Nitrogen; this represent an R-linkage (that is, where the base connects to deoxyribose). ''Traditionally'', (by Earth international convention) the R-linkage making Nitrogen is placed at the bottom of the diagram; plus, Baltar drew it backwords, but that's just viewing it from a different angle and changes none of the linkages. This is where we see "NH" on the bottom of that pic of Uracil I have; the H gets dropped and the N forms the R-linkage. I spent a long time trying to figure out which one it was before I determined that it is definately Uracil; none of the others. You can see this more clearly in the page on [[Wikipedia:Nucleotide|Nucleotide]]: the one we see has no NH2 subgroup linked to a carbon in the ring, so it's definately not Cytosine (Cytosine has 3 N's, Uracil and Thymine, only 2). It can't be thymine, because it has no H3C subgroup branching off of the ring. It actually looks exactly like the image of Uracil on the Nucleotide article.

:1)****My entire point, Farago, is that Ron D. Moore stated in his podcast that ORIGINALLY, Baltar *was* making all of thse comparisons of DNA, stem cells, etc. and stating how Cylon **DNA** is different. However, he got in a panic, because as we all know he is nervous to use Technobabble (often, this is a very good thing) but this time he overreacted; now all of the messageboards are filled with complaints of "This wasn't explained well enough; he just said it's "blood was special" and drew two overlapping squares; this doesn't explain anything". '''In scenes that they deleted, Baltar goes into detail explaining what's different about it, comparing DNA structure, etc. ''' Hopefully, we will see it in the DVD when these scenes are released. ''' However, (as sometimes happens) footage from deleted scenes was used to make the commercial for the episode, and because I taped it off of tv (as opposed to downloading it) I was able to pause it and look at this.''' Really, they just cut a *LOT* of stuff out; it's not *JUST* "antigents"; the script for this scene was butchered in the editing room, and the explanation is actually a lot more complex than just "it's blood has no antigens"; Antigens for ''what''? Antigens are things that trigger an immune response; in that sense, '''this isn't that much different from the O-[[Wikipedia:blood type|blood type]]. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:16, 2 February 2006 (EST)

::I'm [[Talk:Epiphanies#Cancer Therapy|well aware]] of that. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:24, 2 February 2006 (EST)

== Speed check ==

In the section "Distances and Speeds..." two figures fro the speed of light are quoted in as many paragraphs. The first is correct: 3x10^8 meters/second. The second figure is 54x10^10 meters/second. Is this the speed of light in miles/second instead? (as the answer is given in miles/hour)

As a postscript regarding why the ''Galactica'' hasn't jumped in 20 years, the battlestar could have been part of a home or system fleet, much like Great Britain had an English Channel Fleet during the Napoleonic Wars. [[User:Sentinel75|Sentinel75]] 23:18, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Sentinel. The figures you saw was the calculation of ''distance = speed(time)''. To avoid error, the travel time is converted from hours (5.5) to seconds. The speed of light is converted from miles/sec (186,282) to meters/sec. Once that's done, the result (distance) is in meters. Since ''Battlestar Wiki's'' audience is primarily American, I presented the result converted into miles as well.

:Your idea on ''Galactica's'' need not to jump in 20 years is pretty good as you've reminded me of my ''Hornblower'' readings and historical information. I will add it to the page as an additional bullet. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:16, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:http://www.google.com/search?q=speed+of+light+in+meters%2Fsec Switch the units around and it still doesn't make sense. (m/s)/s = m/s ? '''no''' That formula is gibberish. I'll fix it. The original mistake happens to give the right answer because 5.4*10^11 is the result of the prior calculation in meters. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:37, 21 February 2006 (EST)

== Cylon missiles have contrails in space ==
[[Image:cylon_missile.jpg|thumb|right]]
This is impossible. I think. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 18:27, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:They must have some exhaust stream, but not the puffy contrail visible there. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::I don't think that any exhaust would be visible because the exhuast is expanding rapidly and in space there is no resistance to that expansion. The density of the exhuast would quickly become so low that it would not be visible. They prolly just thought it would look better, but it bugs me anyway. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 19:34, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:::I agree with you Bp, it bugs me too... In fact the fact that there are still sound effects for things going on in space REALLY BUGS ME!!! (Like when a Cylon Raider flies by) Before the Mini-Series I could have sworn I read that they were going to be faithful to science in that there wouldn't be "sound" in space. Perhaps I was wrong. I would really like to see a science fiction show ditch the sound effects in space. --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 20:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Standoff Between Galactica and Pegasus/Archive 1

2006-01-21T06:48:10Z

Cp.hayes:

==Deletion Discussion==

I can see Ricimer's arguement here. It wasn't so much a battle as it was a Mexican Standoff. I say delete. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:03, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:I haven't had access to a computer for the last few days, so I wasn't able to update this myself. You see ORIGINALLY, I thought they were going to shoot at each other...by which I mean, after I watched "[[Pegasus (episode)]]". I left "Galactica vs Pegasus" as a PLACEHOLDER NAME when I read reports that they were going to fight the Cylon Resurrection Ship ''without actually shooting at each other first'', because I didn't want to add "Spoilers". Had I gotten here earlier would have simply deleted this Placeholder name entirely, and created the Battle of the Resurrection Ship page. I also have a long list on the talk page for "Battle of the Resurrection Ship" which I should really leave up as rules for future battles. Meanwhile, I would like to (in a fit of annoyance for a minute) say that I think it was a poorly planned idea to update the entire wiki with minor edits such as switching all the links to "William Adama", etc RIGHT AFTER a big site update like the last 2 week gap we had. You see, I'm not against this, but against the quantity of it; the "recent changes" button only records the last 500 things that have been changed, and doing several hundred link changes in rapid succession has made it impossible to easily reference changes made; this is important because many people like myself did not know when Battlestar Wiki was going to "reload", and now cannot easily see what has been changed. I don't mean to whine, sorry, but imagine yourself in my position; coming back with updates from an entiire new episode to make, and not having a full record of what has been happening for the past few days. Oh...I'll catch up over the weekend. I get bye. While I'm at it, I think I've going to change my screename soon to "The Merovingian"; it's the screename I use on all other galactica sites (official messageboard, Galactica Actual, Nicki Clyne fan site), and I really should have been using it since day 1 anyway. Be seeing you...--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]]17:38, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::I do not mind the existence of this page as viewers who see episode 10 (but not 11) are left thinking of imminent battle. I'll let consensus rule here and delete it after about a week if no opposition is made. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:41, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::I'd prefer to keep it. By way of analogy, the Cold War was still a war, even if no shots were fired. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:12, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::Yeah, but I'm basing this on Wikipedia's battle box system, and they don't ''have'' battles for the Cold War political scenario. Thus it should be deleted. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:03, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Although Wikipedia is full of good ideas, we are not slaves to their conventions. '''Keep'''. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:38, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Had I come here earlier, I would have removed this placeholder. If *nothing* is shot, it doesn't deserve a page; think about it; it's ENTIRipELY just stuff in "Resurrection Ship, Part I"--Ricimer, [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:44, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::::In the real world I am known for voicing my opinion (after serious contemplation), so I why not do so on the internet... There were no shots fired, there were no casualties... it was essentially a bunch of posturing. This does not constitute a battle. My vote is to: DELETE it! --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 01:48, 21 January 2006 (EST)

Talk:Resurrection Ship, Part II/Archive 1

2006-01-20T04:37:29Z

Cp.hayes:

==Spoiler Pics==
I have found a few spoiler pics for the upcomming episode. (You have been warned) [http://static.flickr.com/42/78613683_f09776998e_o.jpg Pic 1], [http://static.flickr.com/38/78613674_b16762349b_o.jpg Pic 2], [http://static.flickr.com/43/78613656_d89c65ba6e_o.jpg Pic 3], [http://static.flickr.com/43/78613628_cfb3e5df9d_o.jpg Pic 4], [http://static.flickr.com/41/78613606_63c01fb6a3_o.jpg Pic 5], [http://static.flickr.com/39/78613585_82c2d24d36_o.jpg Pic 6], [http://static.flickr.com/43/78613544_b764955ab4_o.jpg Pic 7] --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

:[[:Image:TheEnemysGateIsDown.jpg|We've]] [[:Image:TheEnemysGateIsDown2.jpg|seen]] [[:Image:TheEnemysGateIsDown3.jpg|them]], but thanks for the thought. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:40, 7 January 2006 (EST)

==Noteworthy Dialogue==

What's up with the long dialogue sections as of late? It's supposed to be noteworthy dialogue, not an entire transcript of the episode. I think whoever posts those (And i'm starting to believe its one person doing it) needs to keep it to a minimum, at least keep it to the point where it isn't longer then the article for the episode itself. -[[Bane Grievver]]

:I tend to agree, unless the lengthy excerpt has something very significant to offer. If others don't get to it first, feel free to truncate the dialogue into manageable and relevant bits. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:05, 17 January 2006 (EST)

:It didn't take me long to note the high points. While "noteworthy" was deeper than usual in this episode (almost every character had a deep thought) the pivotal (and brief) comments that will impact future episodes were kept, and others removed. Remember that articles should be kept as short but as information-rich as possible. Battlestar Wiki is not designed or intended to contain an episode transcript. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:14, 17 January 2006 (EST)

== The Basestar that got away ==
Not sure that the Galactica and Pegasus destroyed both Cylon Basestars - thought it was indicated that one Basestar was destroyed and the other "jumped out" --[[User:Mobrie01|Mobrie01]] 16:48, 19 January 2006 (EST)
: Questionable, but possible. One basestar was clearly exploding as the frame shifted to the other one, which was taking damage. Looking amount of damage that had to be inflicted by '''both''' battlestars, it's certainly possible that the second one was able to escape. Given that, we ''can't'' assume the other was destroyed. Good eye! --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 17:28, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:No, it was never indicated that one was Jumping away. Rather, we saw one blowing up, then we saw both Pegasus and Galactica turning their COMBINED weapons fire against the remaining, already damaged Basestar. Although all of this is told only visually, we see the second Basestar taking MASSIVE damage and I am positive that it was implied that it was also destroyed. We aren't "assuming" anything here, I think it's just our friends and Zoic "cutting corners" on the special effects budget for a frame or two. It was not possible that it escaped. I am going to revert your edit. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:05, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::Then who were the "remaining Cylons" that "jumped away", as Gaeta said? The Raiders that went after the civilian ships? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 18:54, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::Yeah. Raiders have jump drives. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:13, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::I know. I just assumed that, basestarless, the Raiders would go on suicide runs rather than jump away. Unwarranted speculation, I suppose. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 23:21, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::If I remember correctly, there was dialog that described the Resurresction Ship being accompanied by two Basestars and some support ships. I believe given the visual effects, the intent of the story is that the Basestars were destroyed and the support ships were the "remaining Cylons" that jumped away. Just adding my two cents. --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 23:37, 19 January 2006 (EST)

Talk:Armistice Station/Archive 1

2006-01-19T04:47:08Z

Cp.hayes:

You know, I think we have just one too many photos on this page? Anyone care to comment on this -- or am I just envious of all the photos? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:59, 18 January 2006 (EST)

Now that I look at it... I agree. I say get rid of 3 pictures: the ship docking with the station, the family pictures and the Cylon basestar.
--[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 23:47, 18 January 2006 (EST)

Leland Adama

2006-01-15T01:19:26Z

Cp.hayes: ROTC is Reserve Officer Training Corps - CFR would be more like United State Military Reserves

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Lee Adama promo.jpg|200px]]
|age= 28
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= Lee Adama
|callsign= Apollo
|death=
|parents= [[Caroline Adama]] (mother, likely deceased), [[William Adama]] (father)
|siblings= [[Zak Adama]] (deceased)
|children=
|marital status= Single
|role= Viper pilot, [[Battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus]]'' ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]") Previously [[Commander Air Group]], Battlestar ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''
|rank=Captain
|cylon=
|actor=[[Jamie Bamber]]
}}

''The article discusses the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]] character with the pilot callsign of "Apollo." For information on his [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Apollo (TOS)]].''

== Biographical Notes ==

=== Background ===

'''Lee "Apollo" Adama''' is the eldest son of [[Adama, Caroline|Caroline]] and [[Adama, William|William Adama]]. Together with his younger brother, Zak, he was raised largely by his mother on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], following his parents' divorce when he was eight.

Despite his father's estrangement from the family, Adama nevertheless inherited his passion for flying - a passion that saw him enrolling in the Colonial military reserves after graduating from college. Following his basic training, he graduated from the military academy third in his class and immediately applied for flight school.

Not to be outdone by his elder brother, Zak Adama applied for military service, a move that eventually brought tragedy to the Adama household.

Accepted into flight school, Adama proved himself a gifted and natural pilot, hampered only by his his tendency to over-intellectualise things - a result of his upbringing with his mother, who encouraged him to read widely, and think freely (encouragement that lead him to read banned texts by the renegade [[Zarek, Tom|Tom Zarek]] while at college ([[Bastille Day]])).

Graduating from flight school, Adama was commissioned as a Lieutenant in the Colonial Reserve, flying the [[Viper]] Mark VII. During this time, he was also introduced to [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], a training instructor at flight school, who was also involved with Zak Adama. While Adama was still at flight school, the three frequently spent time together, and Adama and Thrace developed a friendship through Zak Adama ([[Mini-Series]]).

=== Brother's Death ===

Tragedy struck some two years prior to the renewed Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies when Zak Adama, recently graduated from flight school, was killed on a routine Viper mission. At the time, the cause of the accident was put down to pilot error. However, Lee Adama chose to blame the mishap on his father, whom he believed had pushed Zak into applying for military service and for applying for flight school ([[Mini-Series]]).

Following Zak's death, Lee Adama became estranged from his father, seeking to build his career well away from any influence exerted by either William Adama or the legendary [[Original battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', his father's command. While he was successful in this - gaining promotion to Captain through his own abilities, the decision nevertheless placed a heavy strain on his friendship with Kara Thrace, as she applied for pilot duty aboard ''Galactica''.

However, Adama is reunited with both his father and Kara Thrace when it was decided ''Galactica'' should be decommissioned and handed over to civil authorities as a living museum and educational center of the [[Cylon War]]. As a part of the final ceremonies marking ''Galactica's'' retirement, Lee Adama is ordered to participate in a final Viper flyby to salute both the ship and her commanding officer - an assignment he undertakes grudgingly, doing little to hide his true feelings from the moment he arrives on the battlestar ([[Mini-Series]]). Matters are helped when he discovers he will fly not in his own Viper, but in the newly-restored Mark II Viper his father had flown during the Cylon War ([[Mini-Series]]).

Things worsen after the PR official aboard ''Galactica'', [[Doral, Aaron|Aaron Doral]], sees Captain Adama's presence on ''Galactica'' as a major PR opportunity and has Adama and his father pose for pictures together. Immediately following this, Adama confronts his father over Zak's death, during which he vents two years' worth of anger, clearly expressing his belief that William Adama was responsible for the loss of his brother.

=== Surprise [[Cylon Attack]] ===

Following the decommissioning ceremony, Lee Adama departs ''Galactica'', acting as a unofficial escort for ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'', the official transport for Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]], who represented President [[Adar (RDM)|Adar]] at the ceremony. Mid-way through their return to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], Adama and the crew of ''Colonial Heavy 798'' hear of the Cylon attacks on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], and soon find themselves under direct attack. While Adama is able to thwart the missile attack, his father's old Viper is disabled and is brought aboard ''Colonial Heavy 798''. Adama becomes one of Laura Roslin's unofficial advisors, aiding her in her self-appointed rescue mission. Adama's annoyance of his father's old Viper comes back to haunt him when [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]], returning from her unexpected rescue mission on Caprica and disasterous attack on two [[Cylon Raider]]s, notes to him that other Vipers and other modern Colonial spacecraft like his Mark VII were [[Command Navigation Program|easily destroyed]] by Cylon attacks.

Following his disobedience of a direct order from his father instructing Adama to take command of the government-chartered [[Intersun|starliner]] and break-off from Roslin's rescue mission, Adama again saves ''Colonial Heavy 798'' from a nuclear missile attack with a failed experiment he toyed with in [[War College]], using ''Galactica's'' [[EMP]] coils that were placed on the ship for return to Caprica and the Colonial Fleet - while simultaneously making it look like the ship had been destroyed. (Adama does not know that ''Galactica's'' [[CIC]] interpreted his EMP burst (as did the Cylon fighters) as a nuclear detonation, so Commander Adama believes Captain Adama is now dead.) He supports Roslin in her rescue efforts, forming a large convoy of civilian ships, until it becomes clear that the [[sublight]]-only vessels cannot be rescued with another Cylon attack imminent. Adama pursuades Roslin to lead the [[FTL]]-capable ships to follow ''Galactica'' to the [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. Although she would be leaving thousands of Colonials in the sublight ships to their deaths at the hands of the Cylons, Adama reminds her (dispite Aaron Doral's insistance) that they they would save "tens of thousands" of refugees, and that further delay would lose all thats probably left of humanity.

On being reunited with ''Galactica'', Adama learns that ''Galactica's'' [[Commander Air Group|CAG]], Captain [[Spencer, Jackson|Jackson Spencer]], was killed in action, together with the members of ''Galactica's'' last fully-operational squadron of Mark VII Vipers. As the ranking pilot aboard, and despite his relative inexperience, Adama finds himself promoted to the position of CAG by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]. This promotion doesn't initially sit easy with him, given the guilt separating him from his father, and is in stark contrast to Spencer's leadership - something that annoys Starbuck ([[33]]). Nevertheless, Thrace is happy to see that Adama was not killed as reported earlier to her. This reuniting of friends is the first of several frequently awkward moments of conversation between the two old friends.

Apollo leads a Viper squadron in keeping [[Cylon Raider]]s at bay while the civilian [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] Jumps away from Ragnar Anchorage. His ship is badly damaged midway in the battle. Adama would have been killed by a missile were it not for the lightning-fast and highly-accurate shooting of Starbuck, who guards him while also adding more kills to her record. When ''Galactica'' is minutes away from leaving, his Viper's power fails, which would leave him stranded at the mercy of the Cylons were it not again for Starbuck's highly unconventional flying. She force-fits the two Vipers nose-to-nose and flies Adama back to the battlestar seconds before the port [[flight pod]] closes and ''Galactica'' Jumps away.

=== Special Advisor ===
[[image:Water_Apollo_Roslin.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Lee Adama|Adama]] and President Roslin shake hands after appointment as military advisor in "[[Water]]". (c) Universal)]]
Lee Adama complicates his duties when, after assisting President [[Laura Roslin]] in matters of protocol and other issues ([[Water]]), he finds himself attached to Roslin as a "special advisor" to further help her understand military matters. This appointment does not sit well with his father ([[Bastille Day]]).

When tensions rise during a hostage crisis with prisoners aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', Adama resolves the situation with only one life lost through an arrangement reached between Adama and the leader of the convicts, [[Tom Zarek]]. While the solution is sensible, it is not to the liking of either Commander Adama or President Roslin.

In the weeks following the Cylon attack, Adama finds time to re-evaluate his relationship with his father - due in no small part to Starbuck's admmission of her involvement in Zak's acceptance as a fighter pilot ([[Mini-Series]]) and his subsequent death. Father and son grow somewhat closer - even standing shoulder-to-shoulder when Starbuck is MIA ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). Even so, Adama's former self-doubts and moodiness are not easily overcome and sometimes come back to haunt him when he is tasked to fill a role that others are unsure he can manage. As a Viper pilot, Adama is able to escape from Starbuck's shadow, proving himself capable in unconventional and skilled flying in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] ([[The Hand of God]]).

After the tylium asteroid mission, Adama matures enormously, emerging from his shell as a somewhat disillusioned officer and becomes a practical leader who now comfortably straddles his responsibilities as [[CAG]] of ''Galactica'' with his duties as advisor to Roslin. With few issues with either Roslin or his father, Adama demonstrates his maturity particularly well in his handling of security arrangements for the initial meeting of Roslin's [[Quorum of Twelve]] aboard the luxury liner ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' ([[Colonial Day]]).

=== The Inner Conflicts at Kobol ===

Unfortunately, Adama's beliefs in the need for democratic representation and civil government brings him in direct conflict with orders given him by Commander Adama. During the arrest of Laura Roslin following her [[Arrow of Apollo|interference with military operations]], Captain Adama draws his gun on [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] in a direct act of mutiny, protesting his father's removal of Roslin from office. Arrested together with Roslin, Adama watches helplessly in [[CIC]] as [[Sharon Valerii|Lieutenant Valerii]] shoots his father at point blank range, seriously wounding him ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).

Adama is temporarily furloughed by Colonel Tigh so that he can continue his CAG responsibilities, For a time, Commander Adama's initiative lives on through his son. Young Adama leads a fight with Cylons to buy time for ''Galactica'' to find its proper bearings to the civilan Fleet ([[Scattered]]), He leads a team of [[Marines]] to stop [[Cylon Centurion]]s from reaching [[Aft Damage Control], saving the ship ([[Valley of Darkness]]). After that, Adama continues his initiative and leads a [[SAR]] mission with two [[Raptors]] to retrieve stranded Colonials on the surface of Kobol ([[Fragged]]).

Adama's desire to let democracy work without overt military action comes to a head once more as he plots with a handful of others to free Roslin and smuggle her away from ''Galactica'' ([[The Farm]]). Before he leaves, he apologizes to his unconscious Commander Adama at his bedside for what he is about to do: Leave with Roslin and a [[Laura Roslin faction|faction]] of ships to search for data on Earth on Kobol. Commander Adama begins to awaken just as Adama leaves his side.

On the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', Adama is so happy to see Kara Thrace returned safely from Caprica with the Arrow of Apollo that he hugs and also impulsively kisses her, pleasantly surprising Thrace ([[Home, Part I]]). Moments later, as the Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii entered, Adama instantly grabs the known [[Humano-Cylon|Cylon infiltrator]] in anger and would have killed her if Helo and Roslin did not intervene.
[[image:Home_pt1-Apollo_Starbuck.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Lee Adama|Adama]] and Kara Thrace speak aboard the ''Astral Queen'' in "Home, Part I". (c) Universal)]]
Later, with their military protocols and attitudes temporarily relaxed, Adama playfully teases the brooding Kara Thrace by stealing a [[pyramid]] ball she took as a keepsake from her time with [[Anders]] on Caprica. He returns the ball after sensing her depressed mood and tells her that he would be happy to listen to what was on her mind. In the same conversation, he lets it slip out that he loves Thrace. Amused, Thrace cheers up a bit and teases Adama, telling him that there are no take-backs on what he said.

Adama and Thrace join President Roslin and her other supporters on their quest to find the [[Tomb of Athena]] on Kobol. When Cylon Centurions ambush the group along an ancient trail, Adama and Thrace work well together in the fight, complementing each other for their fine shooting. During the incident, Adama chases what appeared to be an escaping Valerii, with Thrace calling Adama back in vain. Valerii takes a grenade launcher and aims it in the direction of Adama, but Valerii actually uses the weapon to destroy the last Centurion instead before dropping the weapon to a very surprised Adama.

Adama's reunion with his recovered father on Kobol further mends the wounds between them, both politically and personally. Like Captain Adama had done on the ''Queen'', his father reacts violently to the existance of a another copy of Valerii, leaving Captain Adama in the awkward position of defending her from his father.

In the virtual planetarium created by the Tomb of Athena, Adama is the party member that completes the mystery of interpreting how to use the constellations as viewed from Earth to make a flight path. He spots the [[Wikipedia:Lagoon Nebula|Lagoon Nebula]] in the sky where the Scorpius constellation resided, a celestial body known to the Colonials which gives them a reference point to navigate to Earth. His father confirms Adama's observation, noting that the nebula is far away from their current location at Kobol.

After the Fleet's reunification, Lee Adama is fully restored to flight status and his position as the Commmander, Air Group ([[Final Cut]]). Apollo doubts that [[Tyrol]] could successfully complete a prototype fighter later known as the [[Blackbird]], but in the end aids in its first test flight with Starbuck. Around this time, Adama begins to develop a peculiar attraction to Petty Officer 2nd Class [[Anastasia Dualla]] ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

===Reassignment===
Apollo is on [[CAP]] when the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus]]'' reunites with ''Galactica'': he was one of the first to see it up close. Soon afterwards, friction develops between Adama and the CAG of ''Pegasus'', Captain [[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]]. Taylor feels that Adama's pilots were undisciplined and implies that Adama has his position through his father's influence. Taylor recommends that Adama have his pilots focus on keeping a "killcount" of Raiders to encourage competition between his pilots, while Adama stresses that his first priority is to make sure that all of his pilots merely survive another day.

To Adama's shock, Admiral [[Helena Cain]] re-assigns him and Lt. Thrace to ''Pegasus'', under Taylor's command. Cain believes that having Commander Adama's son in the role of CAG was a mistake that had clouded Commander Adama's judgment, as young Adama had been insubordinate and even [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|mutinous]] in the past. During a briefing on an upcoming scouting mission against the Cylon fleet following them, Thrace crassly points out that it would never work. She is grounded while Taylor orders Adama to perform the humiliating task of co-piloting a Raptor. However, after the briefing, Adama surreptitiously gives Starbuck a surveillance package and tells her to take the Blackbird to carry out a recon mission on her own. When Commander Adama and Admiral Cain turn on each other, Apollo is away in Taylor's Raptor on his recon mission ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

As the two battlestar commanders begin sparring with Vipers, ''Pegasus'' orders Taylor to relieve Adama of duty. Taylor pulls his sidearm and takes away Adama's. Now weaponless and with nothing more to do than to ride along, Adama asks permission to head to the rear of the Raptor. While Taylor is busy, Adama secretly sends an encoded [[wireless]] message to Starbuck on her whereabouts with the Blackbird and the secret stealth mission he tasked her with. It happened that Starbuck arrives back in the Fleet's space to see the furious and dangerous game of Viper-tag and replies to Adama, asking what was going on. Starbuck's return on the outer fringes of [[DRADIS]] activate proximity alarms on both ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'', whose Vipers unite as a team to intercept what they think is a [[Raider]]. Starbuck manages to identify herself before things get out of hand.

Kara Thrace downloads her reconnaissance photos of what would be later known as the [[Resurrection Ship]] to a very surprised Admiral Cain, who promotes Thrace to Captain as well as assigning her as ''Pegasus'' [[CAG]], replacing Cole Taylor. Cain feels that demoting Adama for authorizing Thrace's mission would be odd since she was promoting Thrace, so she decides to take Adama off flight status. In light of Thrace's new task of planning an attack on the Resurrection Ship, she asks for and successfully returns Adama to flight status.

Adama visits [[Helo]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] in the ''Pegasus'' brig, asking the two of them with a smile, "So, just how many kinds of stupid are you?" He informs them that their scheduled execution is on hold until at least after the battle operation, and tells how Commander Adama "went to the mat" for both of them in trying to get them back, almost going into a shooting war with ''Pegasus.''

After the battlestar commanders and their teams are briefed by Thrace on her attack plan, Commander Adama requests Thrace to stay to talk more on the plan and dismisses his son, asking him cryptically to "stay focused, son." With young Adama gone, the elder Adama asks Thrace to kill Cain after the operation to prevent her from eventually having Commander Adama killed and, in turn, doom the Fleet to Cain's tyrranical commands. Commander Adama tells Thrace to take Lee Adama with her, to watch her back ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

== Notes ==

''Some of this information may not be [[canon]].''

*From [[RDM]]'s [[Wikipedia:blog|blog]], in response to a fan's question:

<blockquote>In my first draft of the [[Mini-Series|mini]], Lee Adama had just been accepted into test pilot school on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] and was not currently assigned to any [[battlestar]]. Presumably, he had been posted to at least a couple of battlestar [[CAG|air groups]] in his career, as well as several ground assignments as well. This isn't [[canon]] yet, however, and I'm currently thinking of changing some elements of his specific backstory as I work on storylines for [[Season 2 (2005-06)|Season Two]]. Overall, I'd say Lee was striving (perhaps too hard) to blaze a different path for himself in the fleet from that of his [[Adama, William|father]]. I don't think Lee ever saw himself as a battlestar commander and was looking for a different way to make his mark.</blockquote>
*According to Jamie Bamber, Adama's official character biography states that “Lee is never so happy as when he’s in his kitchen cooking.”

*The subtitles under Apollo's name in "[[Final Cut]]" list him as "CFR". In the podcast, RDM explained that this stood for Colonial Fleet Reserves; likely analogous to the U.S. Army Reserve, the U.S. Air Force Reserve and such of the United States military; and Apollo is in that because, as stated above, he wasn't sure what he was doing with his life and wasn't sure if he was going to pursue a full career in the Fleet.
* Jamie Bamber is the husband of actress Kerry Norton, who portrays [[Ishay]], the paramedic from "[[Scattered]]". Bamber is actually a British citizen; he disguises his accent to play the role of Lee Adama.

== See Also ==

* [[Apollo (TOS)]]
* [[Richard Hatch]]
* [[Tom Zarek]]

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Adama, Lee]]
[[Category:Characters|Adama, Lee]]
[[Category:RDM|Adama, Lee]]

Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad

2005-10-23T18:30:36Z

Cp.hayes: /* Change */

== Citation Consistency ==

"Zoic" is a name that sounds like what Shaggy from "Scooby Doo" would make when surprised, I think.

Despite being the special effects company for the series, I wonder how much of their information still holds weight. I noticed that Peter gave neither negative or positive weight to this source. As we go through pages, two issues are going to crop up, of which one may need to move to the Standards page.

* Consistent and useful '''visual''' separation and identification of TOS and RDM information and characters. I find the mingling of TOS and RDM data in the same article confusing and lengthens an article unnecessarily. More germane to this project, it will also keep RDM and TOS stats from cohabitating and confusing the citation process.
* We need to cite official sources for TOS information on the project page, keeping in mind this wiki is for both series. There are surely more TOS fan sites than RDM, and things like games, fan fiction and the like over the years have surely diluted what is official and not.
* The level of detail or a standard of detail on technical pages needs some kind of governor. At which point is something being reasonable in description (such as ''Galactica's'' rail guns) or is embellishment or technobabble that just gives fan service (like "''Galactica'' uses a BFG-3244 Rail Gun with Strapless Attachment")? I'd be more strict on this info than any other since tech is tech and such "facts" should not be different from what is seen on screen.

I think color coding article titles to identify TOS and RDM pages (rather than using "TOS" and "RDM") may be better on the eye. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:05, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:I intended Zoic to fall under point 3, for "crew" - ie, of roughly the same reliability as that interview where Lorena Gale talked about how Elosha used to do "a lot of drugs". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:21, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

::I believe the actual word is spelled thus: ZOIKS! Caps are not optional. ;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:21, 10 October 2005 (EDT)

==Request for name change==

I am uncomfortable with the use of the term "Jihad". I would rather we use the term "Crusade", or perhaps "Inquisition"; I think "Inquisition" is best (i.e. Spanish Inquisition [no one suspects the Inquisition!] b/c it's rooting out unsourced information). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13 October, 2005

:Striving for accuracy certainly has better overtones than any use of "crusade", and "inquisition" has draconian connotations. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:11, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:: I, uh, don't get Peter's post. Does that means he agrees or doesn't? Anyway, I'm fine with Jihad because it implies a religeous devotion and a fanaticism that I think could be, sarcastically, applied to the purpose of this project. However, I'm also fine with Inquisition because it implies a religeous devotion and a fanaticism that I think... You can see where I'm going with this, no? Also, the Spanish Inquisition sketch is my favorite Monty Python sketch in the history of Monty Python's being viewed by me. And I'd love for my comments on changing citation errors (if I ever see any, because I'm bad at seeing them) to be "Our chief weapon is Fear. Fear and surprise. Our TWO chief weapons are fear, surprise and a fanatical devotion to citation. Ah. Our THREE chief weapons are: Fear, surprise, a--" You get the idea.

:: I find it interesting that the name and the two proposed substitutes are all tied to religeon? We could have a Citation Rampage. Or a Citation Mosh Pit. Heh. Maybe we should be the Ministry of Citation. I always liked ministries. We would then address each other as "Minister Day" and "Minister Farago", etc. Or maybe one of you can come up with a more [[Wikipedia:Nineteen Eighty-Four|Orwellian]] name. That would be cool. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:52, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::To clarify: I like Citation Jihad. I came up with it, after all... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:08, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: "Jihad", in this context, does indeed present - shall we say - disconcerting ramifications for those of us who are not Christian. While humurous to most of us (I hate to splash cold water) the casual use of such a revered term amongst a potential audience of Islamic adherrants is a wee bit less than delicate... especially in light of the suspicion many perfectly native or naturalized citizens of Mid-Eastern descent faced immediately subsequent to 9/11... and the suspicion they currently face every time they reenter the U.S.
:::: While rather fascinating that we should find ourselves encountering a problem delt with in more artfull ways in our favorite television program, it is nevertheless significant (dare I say important) that we handle this question of naming with a sense of diplomacy. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 04:12, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
:::::I was unsettled--albeit briefly--with the name initially, but I'm not into political correctness. "Jihad" is correct in definition. Currently, however, some take the word with the same emotional charge as Muslims would hear "Crusade," since, essentially in the context of past conflicts between Christians and Muslins at war, both signify a religious purge. In any case, the term sites a religious note that might sour some.

:::::But before you knock Peter for his choice, consider our subject matter: "Battlestar Galactica" is a morality play in the tradition of the original Star Trek series, which addresses in allegory the Muslim/Judeo-Christian issue present through current terrorism against the West as well as the Israel/Palestine conflict by using the Humano-Cylon/Human and God/Lords of Kobol issue. If nothing else, the use of the term "Jihad" in its purest form is actually appropriate and striking so for this Wiki. Don't let the Al Qaeda terrorists or other extremists make you afraid of a word when in fact, it is THEY that slur it from its true meaning. Peter has always shown a concise use of words that has little to no ambiguity--I should know since he frequently slices my edits to their essence when I use too many words. I'll back up Peter on this one. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:43, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::Taking these points into account, I would greatly prefer "Inquisition" over "Jihad" or "Crusade". -- Ricimer, October 14, 2005

:::::::Good point. And very nicely said I might add. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 13:10, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::: I hope you don't mind, Watcher, I indented your previous post one more. Anyway, I like Johad fine. I actually find it kind of refreshing to use it for something that's ''not'' violent. I'm not Muslim, so I can't speak to that. However, as an American I don't feel, I dunno, threatened by the name, or anything. When I first saw it, it gave me pause, but that pause was me thinking, "Whew. Someone's probably gonna throw a fit about that one." --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:13, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::Well I'm sorry but I do and I have. What's the consensus on this? --Ricimer, October 13, 2005

::::::::::Not a problem Day. I think there might have been an unintentional slip during one of the edits (notice the time/date stamps) but I seem to constantly screw this detail up anyway. Feel free. I may read as insufferably serious but I assure you that's not the case. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 16:50, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::: Good deal, Watcher. Anyway... I was about to make a post about not wanting anyone to feel threatened by this project, but I find I have to revise that. I don't want ''members'' of the project to feel threatened by the name. I hope people who don't cite sources are scared witless of us. ;) Anyway, as much as I like using Jihad, I tend to like to not offend reasonable people, so I'd be okay with a change, I guess. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::::: A note on nesting - if Watcher was replying to Spencerian, not Ricimer, it should be indented to the level of Spencerian's comment + 1, not Ricimer's + 1. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:42, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::::: Ah. Good to know. I shall endeavour to remember this. --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:47, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

===Votes===
We need to come to some kind of consensus, I think. So, first, is to change or not change. If we decide to change, then we can quibble over what to change to. Place your name under the appropriate heading.

====No Change====
# --[[User:Day|Day]] 06:14, 23 October 2005 (EDT)
# --Not afraid of words when used properly. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:56, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

====Change====
# Reluctantly --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 06:30, 23 October 2005 (EDT)
# Wholeheartedly --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 09:46, 23 October 2005 (EDT)
# Normally I don't care about words, but I have to admit, that in today's world, some words have become too negatively charged. --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 14:30, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

== BSG: The Magazine ==

I saw [http://www.titanmagazines.com/titanmag/app;jsessionid=57DACB1E3C47F38A718593747C30F921?service=direct/1/HomeUS/$NavigationBar.$DirectLink$2&sp=S8 this] on the news stand at Fry's and thought it was worth picking up an issue to see what was in it. I've so far read a whole of two pages, so I don't know much about it, except that it has an article on Pyramid that was interesting. Does anyone else know anything about this magazine? How reliable is it? I'm going to edit the Pyramid article with some things that are revealed about the rules. How should I cite this, exactly? I'm gonna go with page numbers and title for now. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:24, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
:Given that we haven't had much about the RDM show in print, I'd carefully use it to compare to the canonical stuff we have. If things are consistent, I'd say it's a reliable source since I strongly suspect that USA/Universal may have to sign off on its content. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:58, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
::I say we put it on level 4, (sci-fi and skyone websites), provisionally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:41, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

::: Correction. The title is ''Battlestar Galactica, the Official Magazine'' even thought the words are not in that order on the cover. And, I must say, the thing was really clumsily edited. There are missing periods, 'and' for 'a', 'their' for 'they're', tense mixing, Obvious typos. Yech. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:04, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

==Citation Format==
Also, we should choose a citation format and stick with it. Opinions? MLA, APA, Chicago? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:41, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
:Damn it, Peter. I knew you were a student. You're going to force me to dig up a book or stand with the kids at the college bookstore, aren't you? :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:50, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
:: Are you kidding? I just graduated and never once bought a book on citation. All that can be [http://honolulu.hawaii.edu/legacylib/mlahcc.html found] [http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/workshop/citmla.htm on] [[Wikipedia:APA style|the]] [http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/research/r_mla.html net]. I've only ever used MLA style before, however, I'd be willing, given the nature of web pages, to use something that just had footnotes with numbering. There was some tool Wikipedia has for this that I read about, but I don't remember much about it except that it seemed cool. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:06, 14 October 2005 (EDT)
:::I would find MLA with numbered footnotes ideal. For "personal communication", we would do well to follow [[User:MASON|MASON]]'s example of including them in subpages, such as [[Mercury class battlestar/Sources]] (That should be linked to from the main article text, however.) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:16, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: Joe also mentioned possibly that we should scan things. What kinds of things? And, I assume those should go on a Sources page, too, neh? I think for whatever's on the sources page, we could do the foot note like this: (3) Personal communication (''or whatever relevant info''). See ''link to Sources page''. I also think Sources pages should have a link back. WHat do y'all think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:25, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::I Agree. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:14, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::By scans, I mean scans of publication articles and so forth. Scans should not be of the whole article but a snippet of the applicable text that was cited (enough to qualify as fair use). Also, as for linking the sources subpage, I created a template, {{tl|source}} that can be placed next to the applicable information. The template automatically links to the Source subpage. (Format: Article title/Sources.) Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:16, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::: How does that work, then, Joe? The syntax, I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:29, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

==Character Ages==
Character ages across the site appear to be based on the age of the actors who play them. This would normally be reasonable, but the Timeline of BSG does not match the progress of time in the real world - the characters have aged at most three and a half months in the same time that their actors have aged two years. Since we can't infer ages more accurately than a casual visitor could be glancing at a character photograph, I would rather this information simply not be included. Opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:45, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

: I concur. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:57, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

==Railguns==
From the ''Official Magazine'' issue #1, p. 60: "Every Battlestar class warship has 24 primary railgun turrets as well as over 500 point defense turrets at its disposal." I don't have access to a scanner to prove that it says that, so you'll have to take my word on it. I'm not saying this is indisputable proof, but that it's maybe more than fanon, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:46, 18 October 2005 (EDT)
:The magazine is wrong. Based on on-screen evidence, the large turrets on ''Galactica'' cannot be [[railgun]]s unless we drastically redefine the very idea. This certainly trumps throwaway technobabble in a fan magazine. IMO, the only thing that should give us pause is if a character on the show specifically refers to them as railguns, which hasn't happened yet. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:51, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Okay. I'll buy that. I bet that what's actually going on here is that someone somewhere who makes these desicions doesn't, actually, know what the heck they're talking about. I mean... What're we to do if someone busts out a ray gun and says, "This shoots a red lazer!" and then, *zap*, it's green? --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:27, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

::: Oops. Ya did it now. Let's just hope TNS' writers don't become overwhelmed by the details and go the way of Space 1999. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 04:24, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

Colonial One

2005-10-16T01:46:14Z

Cp.hayes:

[[Image:Bsg-C-Heavy-1.jpg|thumb|Colonial One, originally known as Colonial Heavy 798 (credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]

Type: Government Transport 
Length: 277 feet 
Width: 49 feet 
Height: 72 feet 
Capacity: Approx 100-150 standard; up to 500 under emergency conditions 
Propulsion: 2 x sublight engines; 4 x commercial-rated [[FTL]] drive pods; manouvering thrusters.

At the time of the Cylon attack on the [[Twelve Colonies]], ''Colonial Heavy 798'' was being used to ferry Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]], her entourage, and members of the Colonial media to/from the decommissioning ceremonies for the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''. Following the attack, under the direct orders of Secretary Roslin, the ship engaged in rescue missions, locating and gathering civilian vessels stuck in space.

Following the confirmation that President Adar and the rest of his cabinet were either dead or missing, [[Laura Roslin]] was sworn-in as the new President, and ''Colonial Heavy 798'' was re-named ''Colonial One'', in recognition of its status in transporting the President. While the vessel doubtless lacks many of the facilities and systems the original ''Colonial One'' would have boasted, [[Roslin]] has nevertheless made it her base of operations, thus helping to keep her civilian administration physically distinct from [[William Adama|William Adama's]] military leadership.

==Design Characteristics==
''Colonial One'' is a standard Caprican-designed liner converted for government use as a long-range transport. As such, its normal passenger capacity has been greatly reduced to make way for the offices and cabins required by government personnel when undertaking official visits.

A large main cabin aboard the ship provides seating accommodation for dignitaries and press alike, while forward of this are small, more personal quarters reserved for ministers and their guests. Despite its conversion for government use, ''Colonial One'' retained its own docking bay, large enough to take a Colonial shuttle, and also boasts a cargo hold big enough to house a Viper-sized craft. The large capacity hold probably indicates that ships of this type may have been used by the Colonial government in times of emergency or disaster to render aid and supplies. ''([[Mini-Series]])''

==Cinematic Trivia==
The cockpit of ''Colonial One'' is a redressed original Space Shuttle Orbiter cockpit simulator. The current Orbiter fleet have since been refurbished with [http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/sts101_new_cockpit.html newer cockpits.]

The passenger area of the ship is modeled after the interior of the Pan Am Clipper Orion space shuttle seen ferrying Dr. Floyd into orbit in 2001: A Space Odyseey.

The ship was intentionally painted in the color scheme of the real world [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One Air Force One] to evoke more of that "real world" feel from the series.

Half way through [[Season One]], the ''Colonial One'' CG model was updated and the seal of the President of [[the Twelve Colonies]] was added to the dorsal "hump" at the bow of the ship.

''Colonial One'''s cargo bay, as seen in the [[Mini Series]] was actually the car deck of a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Ferries BC Ferries] car and passenger ferry.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Battlestar Galactica (2003 game)/Archive 1

2005-09-19T00:58:26Z

Cp.hayes:

==Thoughts on Canonicity of the Video Game==

Brief history: The video game was originally developed as a tie-in to the Singer/DeSantos continuation project. After that fell through, it was substantially revamped and placed during the Cylon War of the Ronald D. Moore continuity. However, it clearly has a foot in both universes - many of the sound effects come from the original series, as do the appearances of most of the ships (notably the ''Galactica'' herself).

Nevertheless, the Video Game may prove to be our primary source for events during the course of the Cylon War. I suggest that where its events do not flatly contradict the RDM series, it can be used as a highly tentative historical source, as long as the dubious canonicity of the source is noted wherever cited.

User [[User:cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 19:55, 18 September 2005 (EDT) says:
To me, the only things considered Canon should be that whioh is aired in the broadcast series. I do not think the video game should have any bearing or entries as far as the broadcast series is concerned. I would consider canon only that whick airs in the broadcast series or "MAYBE" that which Ron D. Moore says.

As far as I am concerned, anything in the video game is not canon.

(By the way, typing is hard sometimes)

Talk:Battlestar Galactica (2003 game)/Archive 1

2005-09-19T00:53:04Z

Cp.hayes:

==Thoughts on Canonicity of the Video Game==

Brief history: The video game was originally developed as a tie-in to the Singer/DeSantos continuation project. After that fell through, it was substantially revamped and placed during the Cylon War of the Ronald D. Moore continuity. However, it clearly has a foot in both universes - many of the sound effects come from the original series, as do the appearances of most of the ships (notably the ''Galactica'' herself).

Nevertheless, the Video Game may prove to be our primary source for events during the course of the Cylon War. I suggest that where its events do not flatly contradict the RDM series, it can be used as a highly tentative historical source, as long as the dubious canonicity of the source is noted wherever cited.

Comments from [[User:cp.hayes|cp.hayes]:
The only things considered Canon should be that whioh is aired in the broadcast series. I do not think the video game should have any bearing or entries as far as the broadcast series is concerned. I would consider canon only that whick airs in the broadcast series or MAYBE thst which Ron D. Moore proclaims.

As far as I am concerned, anything in the video game is not worth considering.

Talk:Battlestar Galactica (2003 game)/Archive 1

2005-09-19T00:51:47Z

Cp.hayes:

==Thoughts on Canonicity of the Video Game==

Brief history: The video game was originally developed as a tie-in to the Singer/DeSantos continuation project. After that fell through, it was substantially revamped and placed during the Cylon War of the Ronald D. Moore continuity. However, it clearly has a foot in both universes - many of the sound effects come from the original series, as do the appearances of most of the ships (notably the ''Galactica'' herself).

Nevertheless, the Video Game may prove to be our primary source for events during the course of the Cylon War. I suggest that where its events do not flatly contradict the RDM series, it can be used as a highly tentative historical source, as long as the dubious canonicity of the source is noted wherever cited.

Comments from [cp.hayes]:
The only things considered Canon should be that whioh is aired in the broadcast series. I do not think the video game should have any bearing or entries as far as the broadcast series is concerned. I would consider canon only that whick airs in the broadcast series or MAYBE thst which Ron D. Moore proclaims.

As far as I am concerned, anything in the video game is not worth considering.

Talk:Battlestar Galactica (2003 game)/Archive 1

2005-09-19T00:50:44Z

Cp.hayes:

==Thoughts on Canonicity of the Video Game==

Brief history: The video game was originally developed as a tie-in to the Singer/DeSantos continuation project. After that fell through, it was substantially revamped and placed during the Cylon War of the Ronald D. Moore continuity. However, it clearly has a foot in both universes - many of the sound effects come from the original series, as do the appearances of most of the ships (notably the ''Galactica'' herself).

Nevertheless, the Video Game may prove to be our primary source for events during the course of the Cylon War. I suggest that where its events do not flatly contradict the RDM series, it can be used as a highly tentative historical source, as long as the dubious canonicity of the source is noted wherever cited.

The only things considered Canon should be that whioh is aired in the broadcast series. I do not think the video game should have any bearing or entries as far as the broadcast series is concerned. I would consider canon only that whick airs in the broadcast series or MAYBE thst which Ron D. Moore proclaims.

As far as I am concerned, anything in the video game is not worth considering.

Skirmish Over the Red Moon

2005-09-18T19:09:23Z

Cp.hayes:

{| border=1 width=300 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 align=right style="margin-left:1em;margin-bottom:1em"
|+ Battle before: [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]] Battle after: [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]]
|colspan=2|
|-
!colspan=2 bgcolor=#aaaaee|Skirmish over the Red Moon
|-
|Conflict||[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon war]]
|-
|Date||[[Re-Imagined Series Timeline|Day 14]]
|-
|Place||An unnamed red moon
|-
|Result||Marginal [[Colonial]] victory
|-
|colspan=2|
{| border=1 width=300 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0
|-
!colspan=2 bgcolor=#aaaaee|Combatants
|-
| width=50%|Remnants of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
| width=50%|[[Cylon]]s
|-
!colspan=2|Commanders
|-
|Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]
|Unknown
|-
!colspan=2|Strength
|-
|2 Vipers
|8 Raiders
|-
!colspan=2|Casualties
|-
|1 Viper destroyed, 1 damaged
|7 Raiders destroyed, 1 captured
|}
|}

A skirmish that occured when a scouting group of 8 Cylon [[Raider]]s surprised a group of [[nugget]] [[Viper]] pilots being instructed by Lt. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace in the orbit an unnamed Red Moon orbiting a gas giant. It was the first time the Cylons were able to find the ''Galactica'' again after it's escape in the Battle of Ragnar Anchorage (and subsequent chase in "[[33]]"). Starbuck ordered the trainees to leave while she took on all eight at once, but Cadet [[Hot Dog]] disobeyed and followed her to cover her wing. This succeeded in dividing the Raiders enough between them that Starbuck now had a chance to take them down. Hot Dog succeeded in destroying one Raider (his first kill in a Viper) before suffering damage from incoming fire and having to pull back from the engagement. By this point all but one Raider had been destroyed, and Starbuck and it made a run at each other.

Both the Raider and Starbuck's Viper were critically damaged as a result; the Raider was shot in it's bio-mechanical brain and Kara's Viper was bady damaged. Both spiraled out of control descending through the Red Moon's orbit and crashed onto the moon, though Starbuck was able to eject from her Viper first.

Hot Dog and his Viper were soon after recovered by repair crews from ''[[Galactica]]'' (his damaged Viper was later repaired).

Meanwhile, Starbuck's Viper was a total loss. After ejecting she wandered on the moon until she found the crashed Cylon Raider, braindead from its wounds. Starbuck was then able to find a way inside, and discovered for the first time the bio-mechanical nature of the new generation of Raiders. Inside, Starbuck had enough oxygen to stay alive, and began figuring out how to control the Raider by manipulating its internal organic actuators (aided by the fact that Starbuck used to be a flight instructor and could determine the basic mechanics of flying a craft fairly well). Starbuck sealed up the hole the Raider received when she shot it by using her emergency kit, then flew it off of the moon, and returned to ''Galactica''.

This was the first time that Colonial forces were able to capture and examine a Cylon Raider. Chief [[Tyrol]] and his deck crew spent the next several weeks analyzing it, eventually returning it to flight status. ("[[Act of Contrition]]"), ("[[You Can't Go Home Again]]"), ("[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"), ("[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]").

Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy

2005-09-02T23:55:14Z

Cp.hayes: /* No spoilers except for episode pages */

I hate the spoiler policy. I don't want to be spoiled. I won't be using or contributing to the site significantly until after the end of the season and before you start spoiling season 3.

Character summaries in particular should be free of spoilers like "died in tbe episode Scattered," (before it aired), especially when the character doesn't die in Scattered after all when it finally airs.

Socinus lives!

-MHall

: I personally go by group consensus. If the consensus is that spoiler information is used, then that's the consensus; if it is vice-versa, then spoiler information isn't used (or packaged so as not to spoil the casual reader). As we're an '''information resource and episode guide''', spoilers are a necessary evil. Some of the spoiler information changes from script to shooting, hence the inaccurate statement of Socinus' death in "Scattered"; it doesn't preclude him dying later on due to his injuries, so he may still die this season.

: For instance, I noted that details often change from the initial script to the final shooting. Permit me to use Boomer as an example: her being a human Cylon was never in the previous versions of the mini-series script, but changed -- indirectly -- after one of Ron Moore's friends made a quip about there not being a "By your command" line in the script. (That information came from the mini-series DVD commentary track.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:41, 17 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Actually, I think that there is no way of making a spoiler-free version for everybody and making it work, too - because some country will always be the last to air the show, and by then, parts of the rest of the world will have forgotten about it already.

There is however one exception: There should really be no spoilers for shows that have not even aired, or at least not anywhere but that episode's summary. Otherwise, there is really no way one can enjoy this wiki ''and'' the show. (Happened for me with Home II.) I would even go as far as extending the no-spoilers for not-yet-aired shows for 24 hrs after the show, again, with the exception of the episodes's page. Because, let's fact it, lots of people will use P2P to see the show, because otherwise it would be years until they get to see it. (And if they are unlucky, they would have to see a synchronised version, too.) So the latter suggestion would enable them to look up things here while not having to wait for the show to arrive.

And one final thing: Spoiling from the scripts does not even make much sense - as the first poster on this page points out; and the audio comments imply the same. So my guess would be that spoiling not-yet aired shows will put off users from using this site, which is hardly a good thing, and it doesn't make much sense in the first place to do so, because the scripts will not air the way they were written, anyway. So I really would suggest a No spoilers for unaired shows policy. -- [[User:Still not king|Still not king]] 12:32, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

::I agree. We gain very little by jumping the gun on upcoming episode spoilers - for example, I didn't need to know that spoileriffic note on the episode summary for [[Resurrection Ship]] at all. There's no reason not to be patient with these things. I do not agree, however, with a 24 hour injunction against posting episode details - we should be able to start wiki-ing as soon as it airs in our respective timezones. If we want to stay spoiler free on the west coast, we can always just not log on during the three hour window. Likewise, when the brits start getting Season 2, Part II before we do, we shouldn't force ourselves to wait for the U.S. airings. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:45, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

:::I was intentionally proposing ''just'' 24 hours - that is what it might take to get to see the show if you have to get it by P2P, and in the meantime, one might still want to check out something -- not the episode summary, of course, but a plain page about a character. It's a minor part of my proposal, though -- the important one is No spoilers of unaired shows. -- [[User:Still not king|Still not king]] 20:13, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

::::I really like the idea of not posting regarding unaired shows. There's no way to avoid spoilers for shows that have aired already, but the show doesn't really exist until it's aired, in a way (insofar that it might be changed). I also really like the idea of a 24-hour wait period after the first (and thus, British, right?) air time. A day isn't that long, really, and I'm not sure about anyone else, but these episodes make my mind race and I'd probably be too excited if I went straight from the sofa to the computer after watching. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:35, 29 August 2005 (EDT)

:::::One of the nice things about the wiki system is that if you post something innacurate or overzealous, someone else can come along and tone it down a bit. I'm starting a vote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:03, 29 August 2005 (EDT)

:This is rediculous. You come onto a site that has a quite obvious spoiler policy on the front fage, you go to read about upcoming episodes, and then you cry about being spoiled. Gee, obviously the best way to solve this is to stop people from posting new information. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 08:51, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

== Spoiler Warning ==

How about episode pages that have not been aired yet get a spoiler tag, so that people that can contribute to them knowing full well that they'll likely be spoiled? Same can be done with character and event pages, so that information introduced to them from episodes not yet aired can also be used on this Wiki without fear of spoiling those that do not wish it. Thoughts?-- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:39, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:I'm afraid it wouldn't do me much good, since I read the diffs on everything on the recent edits page anyway. Maybe we could allow spoilers on episode summary pages but discourage them elsewhere? Avoiding the episode summaries isn't very hard. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:11, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I found this problem with the Pegasus ep and related data. I wanted to keep the Fall of the Twelve Colonies page accurate with what we knew about surviving Battlestars, but this is still a spoiler, so the data there is left a bit vague unless someone digs for it. Still, a spoiler is a spoiler. The talk page would satisfy both spoiler-hunter and seeker on an episode article. We'd just need to add a "Spoiler" topic there, and note to people that if you are going to see an episode page for a show that hasn't aired, you are asking for it, literally. At least the talk page has an extra layer for avoiders to have, but because of the nature of this wiki, eliminating spoilers takes away a lot of the research fun. Data's gotta go somewhere and we can't commit the juicy bits for the main page to memory until the ep is aired. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:40, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

::This is going to be awkward, but I feel like we should add this as an option in the vote. Also adding a note on approval voting. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:::I dislike the thought of having to move massive amounts of text. So far, I've been avoiding pages to do with unaired episodes. That's easy enough. My main concern is someone clicking through and wondering, "Who the ''heck'' is Gina?", thinking it's some pilot who's name they missed or some small character. Then they read about an episode they didn't want to. Or, in another case, someone reading all about Lee and the information going on, at the end, past the most recent episode. I think keeping character pages clear is the better idea. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:01, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

=== Subpage? ===

How about comitting spoilers to a subpage of an article? For instance, [[Pegasus (episode)]] would have a subpage called [[Pegasus (episode)/Spoilers]]? I believe that would be fairly straight forward, given the title of the subpage. :-)

Then, after the episode airs, we can simply merge the contents together from the spoiler page into the main page of the article in question. Just my view. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:48, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:This sounds like a lot of work. I actually agree with Spencerian that anyone who clicks on the episode page for an unaired episode is explicitly asking for it. Additionally, those are easy edits to avoid reading. I'm going to go and complicate things now... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:: It does, but my intent was to just throw this out there to see what everyone else thought. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:01, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

:::See my note above for my thoughts on having to merge things. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:01, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

== What is a spoiler? ==
In response to Day's query below ("So what constitutes a spoiler for this new voting catagory?"): I believe a spoiler is anything from an as-yet-unaired show. Examples: Lucy Lawless's character, Cain, Gina, etc. I think the revelation about Boomer is fair game, as that was the end of the Mini-Series. It's hard to escape that fact when most press articles now refer to her as a Cylon. For the purposes of my argument and vote, a "spoiler" is any information that has not yet been broadcast. Is that a fair assessment? -- [[User:Ryq|ryq]] 16:40, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

:I concur with this definition. I just thought it would pay to be absolutely clear. --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:56, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

==Vote==

Vote for as many options as you agree with. Voting method is [[Wikipedia:Approval Voting|approval voting]] - place your name under every policy which would be acceptable to you; the policy acceptable to the most users wins.

Spoilers in this vote refer to details of unaired episodes. As an encyclopedia, cataloging information from already aired episodes is what we do, and is not in question.

===All spoilers permitted (current policy)===
# [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 08:47, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Wingsandsword|Wingsandsword]] 21:38, 1 September 2005 (EDT) This a reference, let's act like it. If we have reliable information, share it with others.

===No spoilers except for episode pages===
# --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:04, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
# --Zareck Rocks 15:00, 31 August 2005 (EDT)--
# --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:57, 1 September 2005 (EDT) (I'm apparently being convinced).
# --[[User:Dawn|Dawn]] 02:16, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 19:55, 2 September 2005 (EDT)

===No spoilers except for episode talk pages===
# --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:35, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (To compromise, make the episode's TALK page fair game for spoiler data.)
# --[[User:Ryq|ryq]] 19:40, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (I agree with Spencerian's addendum)

===No spoilers until after first episode airdate===
# --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 21:33, 29 August 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 22:49, 29 August 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:35, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (To compromise, make the episode's TALK page fair game for spoiler data.)
# --[[User:Ryq|ryq]] 19:40, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (I agree with Spencerian's addendum)
# --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:45, 31 August 2005 (EDT) (So what constitutes a spoiler for this new voting catagory? Does this mean in the Mini-Series episode article, we have to take out the revelation about Boomer's heritage and move it to the talk page? Or does this new thing mean that information about unaired episodes goes on their talk pages until they've aired (or 24 hours after) when we can then move it to the main page? This new thing confuses me, which I think is apparent.)
# [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:06, 1 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Dawn|Dawn]] 02:15, 2 September 2005 (EDT)

===No spoilers until after first episode airdate + 24 hours===
# --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]
# --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:19, 30 August 2005 (EDT)
# [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:06, 1 September 2005 (EDT)
# --[[User:Dawn|Dawn]] 02:15, 2 September 2005 (EDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy

2005-08-30T02:50:52Z

Cp.hayes: /* No spoilers until after first episode airdate */

Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy

2005-08-30T02:50:36Z

Cp.hayes: /* All spoilers permitted (current policy) */

Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy

2005-08-30T02:49:34Z

Cp.hayes: /* All spoilers permitted (current policy) */

Venner

2005-08-07T07:03:12Z

Cp.hayes:

Corporal Venner is one of the surviving [[Colonial]] [[Marines]] aboard the ''[[Galactica]]''. As a native of [[Gemenon]], Venner is a very religious man and believes in [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] as a prophet sent by the [[Lords of Kobol]]. He was in charge of guarding her when she was imprisoned in the brig, and asked that she pray with him during a [[Cylon]] attack. ([[Scattered]]) Soon after, the Galactica was boarded by [[Cylon Centurion]]s, and [[Apollo]] ordered Venner to lead Roslin to safety in [[Sickbay]]. While making their way through the ship, they were nearly killed in a run in with the Centurions. ([[Valley of Darkness]]) While in the brig, Roslin was suffering from withdrawl because she did not have her [[Chamalla]] medication with her, and [[Billy]] elicited Cpl. Venner's help in smuggling it into the brig ([[Fragged]]).

Cpl. Venner is duplicitous in Roslin's escape from Galactica (''[[Fragged]''). He pretends to be the victim of an assault that frees Roslin from the Galactica's brig. Venner is apparently recruited by [[Billy Keikeya]] in the plot to free Roslin (''[[Fragged]]'').

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: Characters]] [[Category: RDM]]