{{Battle Data
| name= Battle of NCD2539
| image= 3x7-BattleOfNCD2539.jpg
| description=
| conflict=[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon War]]
| date= Unknown
| place=The Region of [[NCD2539]] Above/North
| result= Colonial objective to infect Resurrection Ship aborted
| combatant1=Remnants of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
| combatant2=[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]
| co1=Admiral [[William Adama]]
| co2=[[Basestar command]]
| strength1=Battlestar ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' multiple support [[Vipers]], [[Raptors]]
| strength2=One [[Resurrection Ship]] Five [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]], associated [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]], [[Heavy Raider]]s,
| shiploss1= None
| shiploss2= Unknown
| casualties1=None
| casualties2=Unknown, dozens of Raiders
| prev=[[Battle of New Caprica]]
| next=[[Battle of the Algae Planet]]
| rdm=y
}}

Having recently taken several infected Cylon agent prisoners from an [[Torn|epidemic]] basestar, [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Colonial Fleet]] attempt to rid themselves of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] threat through the use of a virulent biological weapon.

[[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] provides the Presidential authorization required for the use of biological weapons. ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', leaving all civilian ships at a safe location, jumps to a space location known as NCD2539, which is part of a Cylon supply route. [[William Adama|Admiral Adama]]'s intent is to lure Cylon forces, including coverage by a [[Resurrection Ship]], into the area so that when the Colonials execute their infected Cylon agent prisoners, [[Resurrection (RDM)|download]] of their consciousnesses would infect the Cylon populace with a [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|human virus with a bioelectric pathogen]] that could eventually annihilate the Cylon race.

Shortly after ''Galactica'' arrives, two scouting [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]] jump into the vicinity, then jump away after observing ''Galactica''. Five basestars and a Resurrection Ship appear within minutes. As part of their feint, ''Galactica'' launches multiple Vipers and Raptors, with the latter firing an open salvo of missiles into the Cylon Raider swarm.

No one in [[CIC]] knows that ''Galactica'''s prisoner compartment is vented as an act of mission sabotage, asphyxiating the prisoners before the Resurrection Ship is in range. With the Cylons now nearby, Admiral Adama orders the execution of the Cylon prisoners. Attempting this, the prisoners are found to already be dead.

With the objective no longer possible, Admiral Adama aborts the mission, ordering his pilots to land and returning his battlestar to the Fleet.
([[A Measure of Salvation]]).

==Notes==
[[Image:3x7-BattleOfNCD2539RaptorsFiring.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Raptors firing missiles.]]
*In this engagement, [[Raptors]] are shown loaded to the teeth with weapons systems. In the past ([[Miniseries]], [[The Hand of God]]), Raptors have rarely been depicted in actual combat, preferring instead to hang back while coordinating battlefield logistics. They have been shown armed in a few prior episodes ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Fragged]]), and this is their most prominent combat role to date. The Raptors are using the external missile pods and cannons introduced in "[[Exodus, Part I|Exodus, Part I]] & [[Exodus, Part II|II]]" and engage in the same maneuver used to launch the decoy drones during the Battle of New Caprica.

*Despite being heavily damaged in the previous [[Battle of New Caprica]], Galactica is still (to some extent) able for combat.

<div style="clear: both;"></div>
{{Battles (RDM)}}

Battle of the Algae Planet

2006-12-17T02:22:57Z

Commander Mazien:

Botanical Cruiser

2006-12-10T06:26:26Z

Commander Mazien: /* Notes */

{{Ship Data
| image= Bsg-botanical-cruiser-01.jpg
| race= Colonial
| type= Civilian
| ftl= Possibly
| crew= Unknown
| role= Cultivation of plants and foods
}}

The '''Botanical Cruiser''' was a ship, presumably used for creating food from plants or for use as a vacation spot. New President [[Laura Roslin]] visited the ship while gathering a fleet from surviving civilian ships surrounding the colony of [[Twelve Colonies#Caprica|Caprica]]. A young girl named [[Cami]] and her grandmother were on the Botanical Cruiser with many other survivors when the [[Cylon Attack]] occurred.

Unfortunately, the ship lacked an [[FTL]] drive, and the light-speed-enabled part of President Roslin's convoy of refugee ships were forced to leave the Botanical Cruiser and many other [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight]] ships behind when [[Cylon Raider]]s discovered the fleet of ships. All the sublight ships were presumed destroyed by Cylon forces ([[Miniseries]]).

== Notes ==
[[Image:BotanicalInFleet.jpg|right|thumb|At least one [[FTL]]-capable ''Botanical Cruiser'' (lower left) escaped the Cylon holocaust.]]

The Botanical Cruiser was an homage to the [[Agro Ship|Agro Ships]] from the original [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)]], which themselves were re-used models from the botanical spacecraft from the movie [[IMDB:Silent Running|Silent Running]], a Universal/MCA movie that special effects guru [[John Dykstra]] worked on a few years prior to the Original Series.

The Botanical Cruiser has cropped up again in the series, primarily in background shots depicting all or most of the Fleet. Reuses of stock footage from the Miniseries, primarily the infamous FTL jump scene have also put the Botanical Cruiser in the Fleet.

It has also been seen jumping through the radaition field along with other civilian ships to the algae planet in the fleet's quest to find food. ([[The Passage]]).

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Passage

2006-12-10T06:22:46Z

Commander Mazien: /* Notes */

{{Episode Data
| title= The Passage
| image=Season 3 - Promo - The Passage - Kat.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 10
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production= 310
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-12-08
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Unfinished Business]]
| next= [[The Eye of Jupiter]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Starvation threatens the population after the food-processing systems become contaminated, but the Fleet is cut off from a food source by the intense radiation put out by a huge star cluster. Galactica's pilots must guide the civilian vessels on a dangerous journey directly through the radiation.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
*[[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] flies a [[Raptor]] through a blinding, immensely bright gas cloud. The Raptor's outer skin is charring from the intense heat. Athena is managing to fight off the intense radiation buildup surrounding her, thanks to her [[Cylon agent|Cylon physiology]], but a radiation monitor badge she wears is changing color from white, spotting to an ominous black.
*Elsewhere in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], President [[Laura Roslin]] summarizes the contamination of the basic foodstuff material storage used to feed everyone, from soldier to civilian. The situation is dire; 7 to 10 days of rations remain. The Fleet is starving.
*A group of pilots, including [[Lee Adama]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine]], are combining what little food they have and sharing it, down to the last crumb.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] and his command staff await Athena's return from her reconnaisance mission to what they believe is a planet that has basic algae, which isn't extremely palatable but is protein-rich and will allow them to restock their food stores and survive. Athena is three hours late from return.
*Athena does make it back to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. While her radiation badge is black, her Cylon physiology protects her (although she is obviously uncomfortable). She reports success; the planet is teeming with algae.
*But the travel through the star cluster is extremely dangerous. Two [[FTL|jumps]] are required to reach the planet on the other side of the cluster, which cannot be circumnavigated. The navigation computers of any civilian ships inside the cluster would be inoperative due to insufficient shielding and the intense radiation leaves a ship only minutes to gather their bearings for the second jump out before they absorb a fatal dose of radiation. Any ship would also have to endure the intense heat as well.
*''Galactica'' alone cannot be used to ferry the people, and the civilian ships alone would not make the trip as they would get lost within the cluster cloud. There is too much algae for ''Galactica'' to bring the food to the people in time.
*The Adamas consider the use of the Raptors, whose navigation systems are radiation-hardened to protect against nuclear strikes, as pilot ships that will guide a group of civilian ships at a time by visual reckoning, relaying the proper jump coordinates once visual sighting is made to get the ships to the other side. Five jumps are needed, and skeleton crews are used on each civilian ship to limit the Fleet's possible losses, with the civilians temporarily transferred to ''Galactica'', which will survive the radiation effects thanks to the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar's]] dense hull plating ([[Miniseries]]).
*A group of civilians are bunked on ''Galactica'' from the civilian ships. One of them recognizes Kat, but calls out for her by another name: "Sasha." Kat reacts angrily to the man, [[Enzo]], and barely acknowledges his call before warning him to back off.
*The pilots are briefed on the plan, and each given radiation badges. When Major Adama encourages the use of [[stims]], Kat objects, warning that stims work by boosting the body's metabolism. In their starvation state, the stims would make them ill. Adama leaves the use of the drug to the pilot's discretion.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] returns to the [[CIC]] and is greeted by a round of applause from the crew. He promptly reminds them that they have "jobs to do". He has presumably resumed his post as [[XO]] of ''Galactica''.
*The first outbound flight into the cluster begins. The ''[[Adriatic]]'' is lost when its Raptor guide, flown by [[Hot Dog]], cannot locate her.
*Successive trips continue, but another ship, the ''[[Carina]]'', guided by Kat, is lost as well, which greatly angers and saddens her. She stays in the cloud a few minutes too long during her extended search, and her radiation badge becomes dark.
*In the [[hangar deck]], Thrace notices Enzo interacting with Kat and gets suspicious. She later questions Enzo and later, Kat.
*Kat begs Thrace not to tell Admiral Adama about her past life as a drug runner and the fact that she acquired her name, "Louanne Katraine," from a child that died two days after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], using it to clear ''Galactica's'' pilot screening when she was a [[nugget]]. Thrace accepts her offer, warning her to embrace who she really is.
*Feeling backed into a corner, Kat is physically stressed. Her hair is falling out, a sign of radiation poisoning. Fearful of what will happen to her if Admiral Adama finds out, she chooses to continue her Raptor flights, swapping her radiation badge with [[Helo]]'s. She allows herself a sexual romp with Enzo before preparing for the last outbound flight.
*The last outbound trip is more destructive. Even ''Galactica'' cannot withstand the heat and begins to suffer heat-related decompression failures throughout its hull. Adama orders his son to wrap out visual sighting and perform the escape jump.
*Kat cannot find her last ship. Realizing she had already absorbed too much radiation, she elects to remain in the cloud to continue searching for her lost ship.
*''Galactica'' waits for several frightening minutes until both Kat's Raptor and the last civilian ship rejoin them.
*Kat is greeted by the command staff and many crewmembers to celebrate her accomplishment. The young pilot pumps her arms in the air and tries to remove her helmet before she collapses from radiation poisoning.
*In [[sickbay]], Kara Thrace talks to Kat, whose exposure to the cloud's radiation was too extreme. Thrace recants a part of her conversation with Kat and her origins, and tries unsuccessfully to leave Kat's bedside with a smile before leaving the dying pilot with a bottle of sleeping pills as a gesture of self-euthanization. Kat thanks her.
*Admiral Adama stands by Kat's bedside immediately after Thrace's departure. Kat attempts to confess her past, but Adama tells her that her past will not change the heroic thing she did for the Fleet. He gives her the status of [[CAG]] once more, a position she held from colonization of [[New Caprica]] to Major Adama's return to ''Galactica'', despite the fact that Kat will not survive to fly again.
*Adama stays at Kat's bedside, talking with her and how he would have loved to have had a third child, commenting that he, like his ex-wife, [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]], would have liked a daughter.
*Some time later, the pilots assemble in their [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]] as Admiral Adama changes the pilot organization chart, placing Kat as the CAG.
*Kara Thrace enters ''Galactica'''s memorial hallway and tacks a photo of Kat on the board. She cries quietly as Lee Adama looks on from a distance.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*Baltar notices that Number Three keeps going off somewhere and wonders what she is doing. Caprica-Six tells him that the other Cylons are also concerned about Three's activities.
*Baltar confronts Three about her unexplained absences and surmises that she has been dying and resurrecting over and over again.
*Baltar and Three discuss the final five Cylon agents, who are apparently the figures Three has been seeing between life and death. Baltar wonders aloud if he could be one of them, making him a hero to the Cylons instead of a traitor to the Colonials. Three tries to hold onto the memory of what they look like, but it always fades. Her drawings of them aren't very distinct.
*Baltar and Three visit the Hybrid's chamber. Against Three's advice, Baltar reaches out to touch the Hybrid and she grabs his hand. She says a number of cryptic things which Baltar pieces together as clues about a planet where the Eye of Jupiter can be found, as well as something related to the final five. Baltar states that he is convinced that everything the hybrid says has meaning.

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==
*The ranking shuffle resumes in this episode: Tigh returns to the CIC as XO, sending Helo back to the flight lines as a senior flight officer (his rank of Captain seems unaffected). At the end of the episode, Kat is posthumously restored to the CAG slot, with Apollo shunted into her squadron leader position (presumably, he will continue as ''de facto'' CAG).
**Kat's promotion to CAG may have occurred before she died so that upon her death, her posting as CAG would expire and Apollo would regain his position. It makes little sense to be posthumously assigned to a billet.
*Baltar calls the Number Three "D'Anna", to which she responds. This indicates a high likelyhood of her being the same copy that was on Galactica and making her one of a few Cylons that has a name instead of just being a model.
**Or, it may simply indicate acceptance of Baltar's custom of referring to and addressing some models by their "human" names—in this same scene, Baltar refers to "the relevant Simon" and in prior episodes refers to "one of the Dorals"' views on toilet paper. This custom is shared with the other humans, such as Ellen Tigh who mentions "one of the Brother Cavils", and Adama, who refers to both the Ragnar Anchorage copy and the stowaway copy in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" as "Leoben Conoy".
*Number Three does not know what the final five Cylon agent models look like, at least not consciously.
*No anti-radiation injections were used by the pilots. This either means that the Fleet's supplies are used up, or that even the medication doesn't help against such intense levels of stellar radiation.

== Notes ==
*This is one of the few times an air group org chart is visible. The CAG (now Kat) is in the top slot; directly below her are (presumably) the squadron leaders (Apollo, Starbuck, Two Times, and a fourth whose name is never visible to the camera). Pilots and ECOs may be listed below their squadron leaders in descending order of seniority (both Helo and Hot Dog, for example, are listed directly beneath their squadron leader, Starbuck, and the two of them are definitely among the senior flight officers for ''Galactica'').
*A [[Straits of Madagon|perilous journey]] by the [[The Fleet (TOS)|"rag-tag" Fleet]] in the [[Original Series]], where pilots are also critical to the Fleet's safety, appears in its series premiere, "[[Saga of a Star World]]."
*"The Passage" was written by ''Galactica'' newcomer [[Jane Espenson]]. The episode arose when the show brought in Dr. [[Kevin Grazier]], a scientist from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, who talked about how one would navigate through space; how one would figure out how to get from one point in the universe to, for example, Earth. Grazier's talk prompted the story at the heart of Espenson's episode.
*On the memorial wall Kat's picture is placed below the one of Riley's girlfriend she herself put there in "[[Scar]]".
*This episode marks the destruction of two civilian ships, the [[Adriatic]] and [[Carina]]. This will likely result in more crowded conditions on the other ships in [[The Fleet]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Adama and Tigh discuss the food shortage''
::'''Adama:''' I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?
::'''Tigh:''' No. Paper shortage.

== Official Statements ==
'''In [[Ron Moore]]'s blog on [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ July 27th, 2006]:'''

:"We were pretty excited to have Jane too. I actually took Jane's first pitch way back in my early days at Star Trek and I had the pleasure of buying what turned out to be her first sale. I hadn't seen her since, but I'd followed her career from afar and was very proud to see her do so well. Turns out that Jane was a huge fan of Galactica and really wanted to do a script for us, so we jumped on the chance. I think we're all hoping that we could get her on staff at some point in the future, but we'll have to wait and see how everything shakes out for Season Four -- and whether she's even available, she's very much in demand these days. Her episode this year is "The Passage" (originally Ep 9) and deals with a harrowing voyage of the rag-tag fleet and focuses on Kat."

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battle of New Caprica

2006-12-04T02:40:40Z

Commander Mazien:

{{Battle Data
| name= Battle of New Caprica
| image= BONC.jpg
| description=
| conflict=[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon War]]
| date=
| place=Near [[New Caprica]] space; on New Caprica
| result=Successful retrieval of [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], deposition of the [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] administration, [[Hera]] is captured by Cylons
| combatant1=Remnants of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
| combatant2=[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]
| co1=Admiral [[William Adama]], Commander [[Lee Adama]]
| co2=[[Basestar command]]
| strength1=Battlestars ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and '' [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', [[Blue Squadron (RDM)|Blue Squadron]], Resistance team and associated Colonial [[Marines]]
| strength2=Four [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]], associated [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]], [[Heavy Raider]]s, Ground occupation forces and associated [[Cylon Centurion]]s
| shiploss1=Battlestar ''Pegasus'', several civilian ships (off screen), Heavy damage to Galactica
| shiploss2=At least three basestars Moderate damage to 1 basestar
| casualties1=Approximately 1,500
| casualties2=Unknown, Heavy
| prev=[[Battle of the Binary Star System]]
| next=[[Battle of NCD2539]]
| rdm=y
}}
[[Galactica type battlestar|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' launches a daring mission to occupy the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon force's]] attention as the majority of the Colonial citizens escape from Cylon occupation on [[New Caprica]].

Greatly outnumbered, Admiral [[William Adama]] enacts an elaborate plan that relies on a squadron of [[Raptor]]s (with a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] escort squadron) to fire a series of [[swallow]]s that collectively mimic the EM signatures of the Colonial battlestars. After firing the swallows, the Raptors retreat, luring several [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]] further from the fight. The Cylons are deceived temporarily by the false readings.

On [[New Caprica]], [[Samuel Anders]] and the resistance team detonate dozens of bombs as a feigned attack by Colonial forces. The people evacuate per their fire-drill training, but escape to the various grounded ships of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], which prepare their engines and [[FTL]] drives to depart. Many people, however, become pinned down by [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]] fire.

Admiral Adama performs an extremely risky move. He orders ''Galactica'' to conduct an intra-atmosphere jump, escaping the detection of the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]]. While in freefall, it launches [[Blue Squadron (RDM)|Blue Squadron]]. Blue Squadron performs hit-and-run attacks on the Cylons on the ground, those in [[Guard towers|observation towers]], interdicts the few Raiders operating near the surface, and eliminates the main gates of the shipyard where the grounded civilian ships are kept. Before the battlestar impacts the surface, ''Galactica'' performs a second jump back into space. Stress from the vibration and heat of entry have heavily taxed the structure of the battlestar. Soon, the two basestars move to Galactica without any fighter support as their raiders are engaged elsewhere. ''Galactica''’s mission analysis had predicted that only two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] would engage ''Galactica''. However, two more basestars jump into the vicinity and four basestars converge to attack the battlestar.

With the Vipers destroying targets on the ground and in the air in vicinity of New Caprica City, the civilians previously pinned down are able to board their ships. Simultaneously, Colonial [[Marines]] and resistance members assault the [[New Caprica Detention Center|detention center]], freeing [[Kara Thrace]] and other detainees.

The Cylons in charge on the ground realize the ground situation is lost and escape in a Heavy Raider as they task [[Number Three]] with setting off a nuclear detonation to "clean up."

Before long, ''Galactica's'' FTL drives and maneuvering thrusters are disabled, and the port side of the ship reaches its structural limits. Upon hearing that the FTL drive was disabled, Admiral Adama tells his crew, "Then that's it. It's been an honor." Battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' then arrives with its forward batteries blazing, scoring several hits that severely damage or destroy one basestar. Commander [[Lee Adama]] orders his battlestar towards the basestars to give ''Galactica'' time to repair its FTL drive and escape. Meanwhile, most of the civilian ships become airborne and jump away.

Commander Adama directs his ship to a position between the basestars targeting ''Galactica'', in an effort to draw fire away from her. Admiral Adama infers from the absence of Vipers from ''Pegasus'' that its Vipers are guarding the remaining ships of the Fleet at the rendezvous point and that ''Pegasus'' is on a one-way trip. While ''Pegasus'' "was taking a hell of a pounding," the crew of ''Galactica'' is able to bring its FTL back on line. Admiral Adama immediately orders his crew to land its birds and prepare to jump.

With ''Pegasus'' taking phenomenal damage, Commander Adama orders all hands to abandon ship, using standby Raptors to jump away from the battle. He ensures that the weapons were set to autofire and that the ship is on a collision course with one of the basestars before departing. The damaged, unmanned ''Pegasus'' collides into one basestar, destroying both. The remnants of ''Pegasus''’s starboard [[flight pod]] collides with another of the remaining basestars, destroying it.

''[[Colonial One]]'' is the last Colonial ship to leave the planet, with [[Laura Roslin]] back in her old chair in place of the deposed president, Gaius Baltar ([[Exodus, Part II]]). On the surface, the Cylons' planned nuclear detonation (which would be of questionable tactical value now that the Colonials have left the planet) does not occur.

__NOTOC__
== Battle Imagery ==
=== Raptors and Vipers ===
<gallery>
Image:Vipers_and_Raptors_placing_decoys.jpg|
Image:Raptor_Decoys_Away.jpg|
Image:Raptor_Decoys_Away_(2).jpg|
Image:Raptor_Decoys_Away_(3).jpg|
</gallery>
=== ''Galactica'''s Surprise Attack ===
<gallery>
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere.jpg|
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere_(2).jpg|
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere_(3).jpg|
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere_FTLing.jpg|
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere_FTLing_(2).jpg|
</gallery>
=== ''Pegasus’s'' Suicide Run ===
<gallery>
Image:Pegaus_Ram.jpg|
Image:Pegaus_Ram_(2).jpg|
Image:Pegaus_Ram_(3).jpg|
Image:Pegasusflightpod.jpg|
Image:Pegasusbaseshipsremains.jpg|
</gallery>

{{Battles (RDM)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Battle of New Caprica/Archive 1

2006-12-02T12:18:05Z

Commander Mazien: /* Galactica Battle Scars */

Holy frak. (And that was from the first 30 minutes.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:05, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:You took the words right out of my mouth. Most excellent! --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:45, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
::I know! Holy frakking frak. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:47, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:::My Grandchildrens' childeren will kmow about this episode! --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:03, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Was so good... I am posting my own option.... 100 out of 10. ;-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:39, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

==Losses==
We've said "dozens" or "hundreds", but we should decide on one, because frankly I support "dozens". Nobody died in Pegasus, and on New Caprica it didn't look like "hundreds" died considering that's a big number for these people. So what will it be? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:51, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:For starters, we don't know that there weren't fatalities aboard the ''Pegasus'' (people may have died from hull breaches or whatnot before Adama gave the order to abandon ship). I do agree, however, that it was probably dozens, maybe less than a couple hundred at max (and that's stretching it, IMHO) that died planetside. I would list "Losses currently unknown" until we start getting a fleet population count again, then work our way from there.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 18:10, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:Actually, "unknown number" would work better, since we do not know specifically either way. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 04:45, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

With the survivor count reinstated in "Collaborators" we now know that about 2000 people died on New Caprica, both in the insurgency and the exodus. 
LDYB: 39,192 + 2,000 + 2,200 = 43,392 (2000 in the escaped civilian ships, 2200 on both half-strength battlestars) 
Collaborators: 41,435 
Since there is some rounding and guessing involved anyways, "approximately 2000" seems to be the best.

It can also be assumed that a couple of civilian ships were destroyed or left back on the planet, as numerous civilians are on Galactica. RDM mentioned that in the podcast as well. We just didn't see it on screen. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:16, 29 October 2006 (CST)

:Unfortunately, that covers the entire time span between LDYB2 and Collaborators, nearly five months. We can be sure that many died in the Exodus, but many of those casualties must have taken place during the occupation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:43, 29 October 2006 (CST)
::True, but not even a larger part of it. There wasn't ''that'' much fighting until shortly before the end. Just guessing I'd say less than 300 during the occupation. That still leaves a sizeable amount of losses during the evacuation
::Maybe a note, saying that it includes the losses during the whole occupation? It's probably the closest we'll ever get to an accurate number and far better than "unknown" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:48, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Also, please dont neglect the destruction of Cloud Nine and the other two vessels alongside - they may have had a few 1000 people on them... --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 19:18, 29 October 2006 (CST)

:We haven't. See [[survivor count]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:06, 29 October 2006 (CST)

==Which Three is this Three?==

''...Meanwhile, Baltar and [[Caprica Six]] attempt to stop [[D'anna Biers]] from activating a nuclear device. After the Cylons lost control of the ground situation, the majority of the agents left on a [[Heavy Raider]] and left Biers with the responsibility of activating a nuclear device to "clean up"; however, she can't find it.''

How exactly was it detemined that this Three was the [[D'anna Biers]] Three? I would argue that this three was the one that tried to have the "War Heroes" boxed in [[Downloaded]]. D'anna, (assuming she died on Cloud 9, we don't know) was still alive and with the fleet according to the [[Timeline]].

And how did we determine that Three "couldn't find" the nuke? It appears that she made a beeline for the oracle, as presumably the nuke would be located inside the "green zone". [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 00:41, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:Actually, she was named as D'anna by Baltar, which is pretty interesting. Somehow she must have been able to avoid being exposed by Anders for over a year, until the arrival of new resurrection facilities. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:12, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::Look at the "Number Three" article talk page. I posted a section on some research I did to find out which Three it was :p --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 05:59, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:As interesting as this discussion is, it is more relevant for the [[Exodus, Part II]] or [[Number Three]] page rather than the page for the battle. I'm cutting down the last paragraph about this sequence for the same reason. My rationale: once the civilian ships depart, once the basestars are destroyed/debilitated, once ''Galactica'' is away, a potential squabble between Baltar and whichever Cylons happen to remain on the surface matters very little. There is very limited militarily decisive action; it ought not get more than a cursory review in a battle summary, especially with as much as we must assume to make the description accurate. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 11:40, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:I concur with Keithustrus. Battle pages are not for episode or character narratives. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:49, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

==Atmospheric Heating Effects==

Of course it looked cool, but I am not really sure why the underside of Galactica would have been superheated as it descended toward New Caprica City the way it was protrayed in the episode. Such superheating is not the result of free-falling through the atmosphere, but actually the result of friction with the atmosphere due to extreme velocity. Which is precisely why skydivers do not burn up after jumping out of an airplane but space craft deorbiting (traveling initially at about 5 miles per second coming from low Earth orbit as an example) do. Galactica jumped into the atmosphere over New Caprica City, it did not (strictly speaking) reenter the atmosphere. It is possible, of course, that any velocity Galactica had prior to jumping was imparted to or else retained by Galactica after the jump. However, one might be pardoned for supposing that any such velocity would have been along the ship's main bow-to-stern axis (though this is not necessarily true), and not stright along the free fall axis the ship was clearly heating up on (i.e., from dorsal to ventral side). I would also point out that Galactica did not appear to be traveling at a sufficient speed in its fall to cause superheating, though of course this may be the subject of debate. Anyway, just a thought. The dramatic effect more than made up for any possible technical inaccuracy. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 19:08, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:That's a good technical error to add to one of the science articles, if the general article. ''Galactica'' would have had to be moving much faster than the rate she was falling. The Space Shuttle Orbiter superheats at less than 17,000 MPH as it reenters, and its much higher. Science be damned, though--it was thoroughly badass. :)--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:42, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::Yeah, can you give me a suggestion as to which article(s) to bring this up in? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 22:59, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:But don't forget, that data is based on the chemical makeup and density of our own atmosphere. Its possible that New Caprica's atmosphere is quite a bit different than Earth's, even though it is still inhabitable. And for all we know, FTL travel causes the surface of a vessel to heat up. This is all hypothetical, but its justification for the appearance of the atmospheric heating. --[[User:Maserati1945|Maserati1945]]

::Yes, but we have to assume that New Caprica's atmospheric makeup is at least somewhat similar to Earth normal (which carries the underlying assumption that the Colonials are used to something along those lines), or else we would notice some sort of profound difference, such as a difference in rate of combustion, sound transmission, or any number of other things. I just do not think we have any reason to believe New Caprica is any different (atmosphericaly) from any Terran-type planet. (Probably does not hurt that they actually film the episodes on Earth. ;-) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 22:59, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

:That's a good bit of study but there is another very big factor and that is the sheer size of the Galactica. Nothing that size has ever been witnessed to enter Earth's atmosphere and the incredible mass of it adds a multiplier. What we are seeing is a large release of energy and energy is force through a given distance and force is mass and exceleration, therefore energy = mass x acceleration x change in distance or = mass x velocity squared. Those are 3 equal parameters to energy. We know that the space shuttle superheats at 17,000 mph or thereabouts and lets assume that the gravity of New Caprica is equal to the gravity of Earth, that is g = 9.8 m/s^2. Let's also assume that the distance that they dropped was 90,000 m - a guess from the dialog but really it's just a guess but what seems a theorical large enough distance for the depicted sequence of events to have occurred. Given these parameters, if the Galactica was 654,820 times larger than the space shuttle, then it would release the same amount of energy. (I could bore you with the math but I don't think that is necessary. Ya'll get the idea.) However, I am certainly willing to bet that the Galactica is many million times larger than the Space Shuttle and therefore would release many times more energy which would account for the same superheating effect seen on screen, though objects falling fair slower than the space shuttle, and of much less size cause the same superheating effect. Case in point, the Mercury-Redstone 3 carrying Alan Sheppard to be the 1st American in space only traveled to less than 10,000 MPH (it didn't reach orbital speeds) and was 1/2000 times the size of the space shuttle and it returned superheated. There was this super-rich dude (sorry, I can't remember his name. I'll come back later with a site but right now I can't remember the dudes name.) who recently did a superhigh jump from .... I think it was 80,000 feet and he had to wear heat shielding to protect himself. Again, much smaller object and starting from a relative standstill getting superheated. Normal parachute jumpers only jump from a few hundred to a few thousand feet but no more. You gotta face it! The Galactica is one big ole vessel and it had to jump from a very high altitude to pull off that stunt and it doesn't move through atmo without consequences.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 23:55, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::Actually, I ran the math again (1st time I did it practically in my head so it was a little esque) and if I say that the Galactica is 100,000 times larger than the space shuttle dropped at the same parameters, I get 15,000 times as much energy released. Therefore, 1 million times as large produces 150,000 times as much energy. This is taking the Galactica starting at a rest stop (no speed relative to New Caprica) when it initially jumped into the atmosphere. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:44, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

:I think you are missing the point here: the size of the object is not the issue, it is the speed at which it is traveling. Yes, Galactica has orders of magnitude more potential energy than the Space Shuttle reentering, but most of that energy would be released upon impact with the ground, not as a result of atmospheric friction. And I am not contending that Galactica would not have heated to some degree because of free-fall acceleration: it clearly would. (As indeed spacecraft do upon launch, just not nearly to the degree they do upon reentry where they have to use drag to *entirely* eliminate their orbital velocity.) Whether it would heat it to that degree or cause that level of damage is another question entirely. And there simply is no question that Galactica was traveling anywhere near 17,500 mile per hour or even the 10,000 miles per hour of a suborbital Alan Shepard-type loft. Those speeds are blindingly fast, and Galactica simply was not going that fast based on the video evidence. I lack the math physics to prove it, but I also suspect Galactica's terminal velocity within an atmosphere would also be far, far under the figures necessary to cause deorbit-type heating. Just my two cents. :) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:12, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks for you 2 cents. It's hard to say without actually doing the math (It's definitely a good science experiment for a Physics 101 course) and nobody here can say "Oh, yeah, this is the answer" cuz nobody has ever scene a 2,000,000,000,000 KG drop from that height. But my point is the number of zeroes that are in the mass of the Galactica and I've scene superheating events in significantly smaller objects. A mass with that many zeroes is just as important a factor as how fast it is going. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 12:28, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

:Been a long time since taking physics, but let me throw in my two cents. Start with the basics: terminal velocity. If something goes faster than that, it's drag slows it until it reaches that speed. Drag = heat. Let's assume, based on the info [[wikipedia:terminal velocity|here at Wikipedia]] and [[wikipedia:Reentry|here]], that Galactica has terribly more drag than a skydiver or peregrine falcon. I'll guess it's TV is something like...pure guess...150km/h. This, btw, is 93mph or .04 km/s, absolutely nothing compared to the speeds that a ship would be travelling outside of an atmosphere. Here's the main question: '''after jumping, does Galactica begin with an initial velocity, relative to the planet, of 0, or does it maintain its inertial velocity?''' Wikipedia: "An approximate rule-of-thumb used by heat shield designers for estimating peak shock layer temperature is to assume the air temperature in Kelvins to be equal to the entry speed in meters per second. For example, a spacecraft entering the atmosphere at 7.8 km/s would experience a peak shock layer temperature of 7800 K." So, if Galactica started from a complete stop, it's shock layer temperature would be 42K, which I don't have to tell you is not going to light anything on fire. Because there was fire and all that stuff, I'm going to assume they were travelling at thousands of mph. My conclusion: '''when ships jump, they maintain their Newtonian momentum,''' which makes sense, when you think about it. It seems like the ship could have been saved a lot of wear and tear if it had manually stopped, then jumped. That way, it would fall at *only* its TV, and be subject to not much heat. . . . . . but I'm an amateur. Any experts around? - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 13:22, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

::Keithustus, Great analysis! However, you guess for TV I think is way off. TV is not a constant. It is a variable that has many parameters, one of which in the numerator is Mass. Therfore, the larger the Mass, the larger the TV. The impression the show gave is that it started from a standstill, what Galactica did was like a skydive. So I can make a comparison with a famous skydiver, [[wikipedia:Joseph Kittinger|Joseph Kittinger]]. In 1961, he jumped from a helium balloon at 102,800 feet (31,300 m) and reached a TV of 618 MPH (994 km/h), or mach 0.9. Since Galactica is 2,000,000,000 times more massive than he was, the TV should be considerably larger. Of course not 2,000,000,000 because the Galactica's cross-sectional area is also far far greater and that's in the denominator so without actually numbers, I can't say for sure the balance of the 2. But I think the TV is going to be more in the range of 1000s rather than 100s of km/h. Again, a guess though. The "reentry shock" effect isn't a factor because the Galactica is skydiving. It's not a question of bringing the Galactica to a rest before jumping but more of a case of Galactica matching the velocity of New Caprica as all objects in space are in motion. Before Galactica jumped, my guess is that they measured the planets vectoral velocity through its orbit around the star and attempted to match it as close as possible before jumping to allow it to enter its atmosphere at a zero velocity relative to New Caprica which would give it the best chance of pulling off its manuever. But all motion through atmosphere causes heat, how much heat is the question. All aircraft travelling above the speed of sound experience some degree of air compressional superheating along their bows, not enough to cause fire, but heating none the less. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 14:12, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

:I'm back. First, I apologize if removing all the tab-tab-tab-tabbing throws anyone off, but it was wasting a lot of room so I replaced each tab depth with a line of whitespace and two alternating tab depths. So, here's what I did:
#Determine size, displacement, and then determined density of ''[[wikipedia:Akula class submarine|Akula]]''-class submarine, the world's largest. It worked out to be 994 kg/m3, with a full load.
#Determined far larger volume of a [[Mercury class battlestar]], using its specified dimensions. Alright, here's the first big overestimate: I used the same density for the Battlestar as for the sub. The density of the sub ought to be far higher than that of the Battlestar, ''because I used the maximum distance of each dimension, as if the battlestar was a rectangular prism.'' Clearly, it's not, so this will give us an overestimated, and thus, safer, result. Using the same mass, which, as I said, is far higher probably than it should, the mass of ''Galactica'' becomes ...within a significant digit or two of... 140,000,000,000 kg.
#Now to the equation: TV = Sqrt( (2 * mass * gravity) / (coefficient of friction * cross section * density of air) )
:*2 is 2. Easy
:*mass is 1.4 x 10^11, as above
:*gravity....a bit of research indicates that it only lowers slightly, with it at 9.8 where we live, and 9.7 at the fringes of what is generally considered to be the atmosphere. I'll go with 9.75...minor flub.
:*coefficient of friction is hard....it is normally determined experimentally with a wind tunnel, but there are some computer programs that can do it for you, if you have the time, expertise, and precision. On the other hand, the battlestar as shown was kind of like a flat disc falling flat on its face, which has a coefficient of 1.3. Works for me. FYI, airplanes usually are in the .05 to .2 range, cars in .2 to .4, a smooth curved surface at 1. They don't really list a lot of things over 1.3, though...not worth flying I guess.
:*cross section. multipy length times width from specifications. 784770 m^2. Easy
:*atmospheric density. It's like 1.3 kg/m^3 near sea level, and is somewhat less than 1 high up. 1 sounds fine for me. We're just hoping within a significant digit, after all.
:4. Put all the numbers in the formula. Now, before the answer comes, remember that this is a right rectangular prism with a density matching that of a Russian submarine, and thus weighs probably 4-8 times what it ought, and that the friction is different in who knows what ways...my cheap estimates put the "block Battlestar" hitting a maximum velocity of '''1635 m/s, or 1.6 km/s, or 3,657 mph...JUST UNDER MACH 5''' (at sea level). Yikes! Given all the overestimating, I'd round it down to mach 4, maybe 3.5, who knows? Either way, who wants to put money on something built for combat damage to accept heat/turbulance stress at that eventual speed? I'm sold on them carefully match the rotation of the planet as suggested above...but I really don't have the time right now to determine how long it would take or what distance would be covered while reaching that speed (the air resistance really throws off those high-school equations). I've hit the edge of my grasping at this. Hope this has been entertainin and maybe not too uneducational. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 18:26, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::Keithustus, that was very beautiful, I have to hand it to you. Wonderful! That must of taken you a little bit of time to come up with all those numbers. I'm looking it over and I like how you given leaway for error and I will take that TV of Sealevel Mach 4 to 5. It's about an imaginary spacecraft so we can make our own assumptions. So with this TV, we can now determine heat energy released by superheating friction with the atmosphere and that's another set of equations.....--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 19:19, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Or we could assume that FTL travel superheats the hull of a ship, and that caused the effect. Makes it much easier to swallow. [[User:Maserati1945|Maserati1945]] 08:36, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Ok, I've solved this once and for all. First, its likely that Galactica was moving with some velocity when it jumped, so this velocity was maintained after the jump as previous jumps with Raptors prove that velocity is maintained. Add to that the increase of acceleration that started as soon as Galactica finished the jump. When the major said "altitude 99,000, falling like a rock", he was probably referring to meters, and not feet. So more like 328,000 feet, give or take, or 62 miles, meaning that Galactica was above the theshold of what we call space here on Earth. Like the suborbital Mercury craft, Galactica experienced superheating on its underside because it was in fact passing through the atmosphere of New Caprica. The reason it looked like it was so much lower was because the ship is nearly a frakking mile (1.6 frakking kilometers) long. [[User:Maserati1945|Maserati1945]] 17:05, 09 November 2006 (CDT)

==A New Piece of Information About Galactica==
It seems like everyones talking about what Galactica's TV may or may not be, but to me the more interesting piece of information we can learn from the battle is that apparently, Galactica isn't designed to land on a planet's surface. Firstly, it lacks any sort of vertical thrusters, secondly, its surface seemed to not respond well to the head of re-entry, thirdly, Galactica has no apparent landing struts or similar devices. Also, we learn that many of the ships in the colonial fleet CAN land. Well actually we learned this earlier in LDYB, but now we also learn that they can take off. From all of this we can infer that Galactica was built, or at least assembled entirely in space, where it is born, lives, fights, and dies. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 15:14, 3 November 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Antagonist. It's not entirely new information; Gaeta alludes to this when Adama suggests going to Kobol himself, thinking that Adama meant taking the battlestar intraatmosphere ([[Home, Part II]]). I can't think of where any stats of the ship ever said it was a true spaceship, however, these also are not new; the remnants of the Fleet orbiting [[New Caprica]] in [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]] also apparently lacked landing ability. Yes, it's most likely that all battlestars are forever spaceborne. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:44, 3 November 2006 (EST)

==Galactica Battle Scars==
Is it just me but I have seen that the hull of Galactica looks almost black from the battle. There was a shot of the ship passing by that had a great view of the damage. --[[User:Bowersj8|Bowersj8]] 11:14, 8 November 2006 (EDT)

==Material Losses==
When the screen cuts from Lee leaving the CIC, it shows Pegasus going up to colide with the one Basestar, but in the background is the 3rd Basestar and I noticed it had two noticeable "flaming" spots on one of each of its topside and bottomside "points" and as far as we know, it was the only surviving Basestar of the four. This might classify moderate damage to a Basestar, but (just to clarify) is this worth putting in the Battle Data (Moderate damage to 1 Basestar)? [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 06:18, 2 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Cylon Models/Archive 1

2006-12-02T12:10:07Z

Commander Mazien: /* Lack of Birth */

==Image Requests==
#Number Six's glowing spine from the "Miniseries"
:::done. --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Valerii's viper optic arm trick from "Flight of the Phoenix"
::: [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images]] --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Thrace cutting into the downed raider's brain from "You Can't Go Home Again"
::: Done. More on [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images]] --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Closer-cropped headshots of each of the six known Cylons --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:17, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:::as you wish ;) --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 11:20, 26 February 2006 (EST)

More?
:Thanks, it looks fantastic. I only wonder if we can't find a better picture of Doral... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:19, 26 February 2006 (EST)
:: i'm really trying to. i think the previous was crappier than this one, but it doesn't make this a good one. by the way, the background color is painful! =D --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 15:32, 26 February 2006 (EST)

:::Agreed; Doral could stand to be better.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:45, 2 March 2006 (CST)

''"Organizational Relationships''

''The exact nature of the Cylon hierarchy remains unclear. The humanoid models, as the most evolved form of Cylon, are definitely in charge of the Centurions and Raiders. Caprica-Six's statement in "Downloaded" that Cylon culture is based on unity and that celebrities such as herself are something new implies that there is no single "Imperious Leader" as there was in the old series. Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positons. "''

i don't agree. can i have some other opinion about this? --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 08:02, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:What's your opinion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 08:32, 16 March 2006 (CST)
::well, i think we shouldn't say the humanoids are in charge, but thats not the main point. i think we everybody agree about the non humanoid execute orders and do most military actions, and, when with cylon agents, the last ones are in charge. but i non-humanoids are like instruments, just like animals or sensor powered machines with no full artificial inteligence.
::what i want to discuss about is "Cylon culture is based on unity".c ylon culture is actually based on the fact that enybody is fully necessary, they are all clones, when dead another one is replacing them, and their missions are minor parts from a great plan. cylons DO have a plan, we mustn't forget it, no matter it seems not (hey, they finnaly taken their planetary colony, twice xD).
::the caprica copies were uniques were living with humans, they have really decisive missions, and they were heroes. so, when introduced back on their original culture, they couldn't engage. for the cylon culture they were dangerous, as they are leading voices who can make the cylon agent having their own opinions as the caprica copies have. they are fully IA (or whatever they are) and can question, for example, the cylon atack against the colonies.
::"Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positions." we know 7 agents and are mentioned 4, thats like saying "men between 25-55 y o are usually in command of younger ones". i think thats more a personality issue rather than military. when seen, we didn't know more models. in fact, they are not only the most often seen in command positions, but also the most often seen.
::and, about the imperious leader, as i said before, their culture is about to execute plan. the fact that the audience and the colonial leaders haven't met a cylon leader yet doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. by the other hand, i'm not saying that actually does, but i think we shouldn't give information far away from the series information by the last '''aired''' episode.
::EDIT.: oh, i hadn't understood "unity" the right way. well, now i think it's confusing. not beacuse i have confused it, but because the information is one step closer to the speculation instead of actual facts. how do the agents give orders to raiders or explain missions? and when have we seen an agent giving an order to a centurion? all we know is that they execute actions. maybe they do beacuse agents can't. as agents execute missions the centurions can't. imagining is true they have no leader, why have they to have militar levels?
:: as i'm not saying it must be deleted, i think is too close to the line and has to be often revisited. thats why i've asked for you opinion.
::btw, has anybody found a better Doral pic? i'm still loking for, but it's not easy! a Cavil one was earlier found! xD
::have a nice day! --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 09:23, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:::The "unity" quote is based on dialogue from "[[Downloaded]]", so I consider that to be fairly reliable. As for "Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positions," we have the following evidence:
:::*Miniseries: High ranking Six on Armistice Station, Eight at Ragnar Anchorage.
:::*Bastille Day, Flesh and Bone, Litmus, Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down: High ranking Five and Six oversee Cap-Valerii's mission.
:::*Final Cut: High ranking Threes, Fives, Sixes and Eights view classified documentary footage
:::*Downloaded: High ranking Three assigned to observe Caprica-Six and Boomer.
:::By contrast, we have not seen Conoy, Simon or Cavil receiving classified information, overseeing other cylons, or delivering orders. I think the statement as written is pretty fair. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:54, 16 March 2006 (CST)

==Cylon Hierarchy==
It says we've seen 3, 5, 6, and 8 in command, but frankly, we've seen at least one instance of each model having commmand. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006

==Merging?==
This thread is very complete on every aspect of the Cylons. I'm proposing we merge it with the "Cylons (RDM)" thread, and rename it as such, since it seems to me to explain the Cylons quite well.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006
:Actually it originally ''was''; the "Cylons" article, in it's current form, is two paragraphs as an intro and a link box to subsections; originally it WAS all of the info from this page, and then some--->I don't know if I agree with this system or not, and I have been pondering it for some time. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:39, 21 March 2006 (CST)
::Well, if it goes down to some sort of vote, I for one prefer to have this as the main Cylon artice (for the species). .--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006
:::It seems to me that a short history article would be a better choice for the main page of the Cylons series. Perhaps we could just have blurbs farmed out to each subsidiary article with a "see also" line. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:20, 22 March 2006 (CST)

==Known (human) models==
Seven (7) are pictured. Isn't there another male model, as seen in the opening credits? (cut from a scene in, I believe, the miniseries--been a while since I've seen the mini)... where we see a group of several human-Cylons walking in profile. Or was that Leoben? I might be wrong, but I thought it was another actor. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 06:55, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
:The only male cylons visible in the mini are Leoben Conoys and Aaron Dorals. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:32, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
::I stand corrected. It was indeed Leoben. My bad.--[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 12:29, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

== Re: Centurion Model 0005 ==

''"it is most likely that she is referring to the modern Centurions, which seem to have replaced them entirely"''

Isn't this subjective speculation? Is there any evidence that the old "toasters" can't still be walking around? In fact, seems like I read somewhere that they're supposed to show one (or more) of the old models in Season 3... (Yes, this is speculation on my part as well. Would appreciate any clarification anyone can provide. I resist reading spoilers.) --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 12:37, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

:We are fairly sure that the old Centurions have been replaced and no longer exist, and we're going to retain that for the time being. I asked in Ron Moore's blog about this but he hasn't made a new one since April, and I think he's the only one that knows :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:09, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
::''If'' they are shown in series three ''then'' we will update the wiki ;) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 14:11, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
:That article could really use some TOS love. It's perfectly adequate for their RDM role (especially if we never see one again), but considering how important they were to the original series there isn't much material on them. I may have to hunt up some TOS screenshots and put together more material on the old tin cans... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:49, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
::Rather than putting them both on the same page, there's enough material on both to support separate pages, so I would suggest [[Cylon Models (RDM)]] and [[Cylon Models (TOS)]].--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:12, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Actually, I wasn't suggesting a TOS verision of Cylon Models (though that information seems to be present in a "summary form" at [[Cylons (TOS)]].) I was more mentioning a desire to add more content about the TOS Centurions on the Centurion 0005 page (unless the content becomes enough for THAT page to have to split).--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:29, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
::::We shouldn't add TOS info about the original-model Centurions, even though they are physically identical: only what has appeared on screen in the RDM continuity. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:00, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::Well, that sounds like a project then. Right now the 005 article has both TOS and RDM continuity categories, and all links to the old-style toaster point to that article. It sounds like you're suggestions a Centurion (TOS) maybe, and then point all TOS/1980/etc. references to that page. There's less than 100 links to 005, so it's not insurmountable... just more than I plan on taking on today. (Creating the TOS article, creating any disambig pages (if necessary), changing links/redirects to point to new article.) I'll make a note about it on the 005 page so I don't forget, though. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:20, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
::::::I'll get on that.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:31, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
== Dean Stockwell Interview ==
In Battlestar Magazine, Dean Stockwell is reported saying
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" class="spoiltext_border"
! {{spoilerplate}}
|-
| id="spoil-text" class="spoiltext_box" | Yeah, absolutely. When I was up there last time, the writer passed around a document to all of the Cylons in the cast that I got to read. It said very specifically that there are seven - [let's] call them the significant seven - Cylons, and then there's five others ones that are in this mystery mode. No one knows where they are, what they are, and what they are up to. They've so scretive that they've programmed the significant seven so that they can't even think about the other five. They can't have a thought enter their head about these other five [laughs]. I turned out to be number three. Brother Cavil, of the significant seven. I'll be back!

|}

Can anyone confirm that before the wiki is updated with the info? I had heard this before, but had not seen any proof. Edit: Really could affect Cylon Agent Spec. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:43, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

:If Stockwell's reference number is to be taken as correct, it screws up what we know of the Numbers of models. I doubt that it's right, and it DOES really make future Cylon reveals scarier than ever. I'll see if I can find the issue and date to confirm. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:34, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::Got to thinking about this. Maybe it's kinda like a "bible" doc and til it happens onscreen, it's not "canon". Just a thought. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:20, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::: Grace Park also said in an interview that the Significant Seven are programmed not to think about the Final Five. It is a bible document, but they are doing the storyline with the assumption that it's true. It does explain why we will only see seven models included in the voting process during the occupation. Also, a spoiler for Taking A Break From All Your Worries includes a scene where Baltar flashs back to asking D'anna if she's seen the five models that no one else has seen. It's still subject to change, and we shouldn't include it on the wiki before we see it, but I think it will probably turn out this way. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:55, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Yeah, we've known about this little piece of info for a while, but I'm confused why he claimed to be "number three", while that number has already been assigned to the D'annas....Probably a mistake, which is tantalizing since I was hoping he would reveal his number in the interview. Oh well. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:25, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

== Bad Link ==

The External link in reference to the twelve cylon models seems in err. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 23:44, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

==Lack of Birth==

Since Cylons can't give birth, does that mean that if a Cylon dies it's a '''permanent decrease''' in their population? If so we should add that. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 18:19, 29 November 2006 (CST)
: This is really nebulous. Cylons of the same model are capable of sharing their memories, so it could be said that a Cylon never "dies". On the other hand, now that unique Cylon personalities are emerging (Athena, Boomer, Caprica Six, Biers), it can be argued that Cylons can die. So it's really up in the air at this point.-- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:37, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Ok, but actually I was referring to numbers. For all intended purposes, lets say there were 2,000,000 biological Cylons at the time of the Miniseries. If that one Leoben had truly died (permanently) at Ragnar Station, that would decrease it to: 1,999,999 biological Cylons at the time of the first few episodes. Then let's say 10,000 died during the Battle of the Resurrection Ship: 1,989,999 biological Cylons and so on. Sorry if this is getting confusing but, yeah I'm just talking more about loss in numbers than loss of memories. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 06:10, 2 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Miniseries, Night 1/Archive 1

2006-12-02T11:46:46Z

Commander Mazien: /* Main Fight */

:''For previous discussions, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Miniseries%2C_Night_1&oldid=58598 see this archive.]

==Major Revision Complete==

In keeping the miniseries to fit the episode summaries, I have revised this article with the larger details of the episodes, breaking it down by the events from each night as it was aired in the U.S. The analysis has been removed from both, as most of it has been answered or discussed in the series article, [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)]]. Any links to [[Miniseries]] will redirect to [[Miniseries, Night 1]]. The questions section is shortened to the central questions generated by the miniseries only, and minimizes discussion of regular series names and events to keep the article from becoming confusing to new viewers (although most links are updated to their current article). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:29, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

==Main Fight==

When Helo and Sharon are fleeing from the missles to Caprica, their Dradis pops up with multiple formations of various Cylon and Colonial signals and they say "I think we've found the main fight". Can anyone make out what the markings on the Dradis say? They might show Squadron designations or even ship names. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 19:16, 1 December 2006 (CST)
: I'll look into grabbing a cap, if one avails itself to me, though I honestly doubt it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:55, 1 December 2006 (CST)
: Update: Unfortunately, all I was able to make out on the DRADIS displays were "Enemy Squadron" and "Viper Squadron". Nothing unique to warrant an article. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:11, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Thanks anyway. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 05:46, 2 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Miniseries, Night 1/Archive 1

2006-12-02T01:16:00Z

Commander Mazien: /* Major Revision Complete */

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2006-11-30T00:37:24Z

Commander Mazien: /* Cavil and Cylon Aging */

== Categories ==
This page doesn't have any categories. I don't wish to read the spoiler stuff, but if somebody could kindly sort it I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, having stumbled into some spoiler-ish discussion on a talk page, I believe that categories on this page might end up being a spoiler themselves. I guess we can put categories on this once the cat is out of the proverbial bag. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:: We'll find out tonight, I guess. I'm looking forward to it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Article name ==

I believe it should be Cavil, not Brother Cavil, same as it's Cally, not Specialist Cally.
:Yep. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon? ==

Just from speculation based on the 'not at any of the cylon meetings' line, which is so similar to Six's line.

Also if he is a cylon he could be 'Number 1,' as that so far the lower the number the higher the age of the cylon. Perhaps that makes him the 'leader', that is, if cylon's have leaders in their 'society based on unity'.

Just a guess--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:12, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I doubt he is Number 1. Plus, as people keep on forgetting, Cylons only ''appear'' to age -- they don't actually grow up from infancy like humans do. They're made as old as they look (or as young as they look). Period. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Number 12, thus sinking the whole "model number sorted by age" thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::I agree, though I'll take it a step further and say that he is likely Number 12, and likely not Number 1. I think either we have not seen Number 1 yet in any form...or else Number 1 has been there from the beginning, and will be a big surprise for us. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:52, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Do we know if both discovered models were named Cavil? Because that makes me suspicious that their discovery together wouldn't be accidental. And especially with how in agreement they were even after being separately for months (presumably). I don't trust their words, especially now that the Colony was subjugated. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 12:42, 13 March 2006 (CST)

:::As far as I know, there's no on screen evidence of Caprica Cavil being called Cavil directly. We just call him "Caprica Cavil" for the sake of discerning the two different copies of that model, since we only know that model by Cavil. Hope that isn't as confusing as it reads... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:09, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Cavil and Cylon Aging ==
Regardless of whether or not the claim about preaching longer than Tyrol has been "sucking down oxygen" is correct, Cavil's apparent age (approximately 70, going by Dean Stockwell's real age) gives us some hints about the maturation of Humano-Cylons. It would be very safe to assume that the Cylons haven't been at this for a whole 70 years--otherwise, agents would probably have been introduced into Colonial society during the ''first'' war, instead of waiting for the second, and Baltar and Adama and every other survivor wouldn't have been surprised by the fact that they "look like us." A Humano-Cylon body, pre-download, seems to be either a) generated from scratch and resembling a particular age the moment it's ready (an instant twenty-something Sharon, early thirties Six, and late sixties/early seventies Cavil), or b) Cylon genes can be temporarily tweaked to accelerate an aging process that is usually human normal. Either way, the Cylons don't seem to spend 20-plus years generating a new body. Master geneticists that they are, why would they have to wait? -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:28, 18 March 2006 (EST).

:I thought (a) was the clear implication of "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Downloaded" - new Cylon bodies come pre-aged. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:21, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::Those technically weren't new bodies. They are copies, not clones, remember? A "new" body is exactly duplicated from an old one. By definition all will be the same age. So any aging would take place simultaneously across the whole model. Also, Dean Stockwell is ~70 but Cavil can be younger.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:11, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::Are you suggesting there's a stock supply of uninhabited Cylon bodies all aging simultaneously, a la Evangelion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:54, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::::Er, yes. That is what the Resurrection Ship (and whatever they have on their homeworld) is. My point is that when they make a new uninhabited body it's A Copy, Not A Clone, and thus the same age as the body it was copied from.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:41, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::::Every body in a Cylon model is the same. They are all twins, none is a clone of another. They are made in the resurrection Ship, that was visually implied by the whole stack of Sixes. The Cavils themeselves are proof that they are made the age they look. There are Cavils in pods looking exactly like they do. The "longer than.." comment was needed, he wouldn't say "I've been preaching for two years, since I'm a Cylon.." --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006

I removed the statement claiming that the humanoid cylons possibly came into existence thirty years prior to the time period in the show was contradicted by other evidence. It misunderstood the point of the previous statement (which I originally submitted), which does not argue that the infiltration of the colonies began that far back. It only suggests that the humanoid cylons came into being thirty or more years prior to the time of the series assuming Cavil was telling the truth about preaching longer than Tyrol had been sucking down oxygen. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 23:38, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

How do we know Cylons even biologically age? They might have something that prevents that. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 18:37, 29 November 2006 (CST)

== Cavil "Atheist" ==
It seems in their conversation that they came to a fairly Agnostic, not atheist, conclusion with the line "can't prove it one way or another." Thought? --posted by Xavier101
:No. Athiest. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:13, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Could be either, but I'm leaning towards atheist. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:53, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:They acknowledged it couldn't be proven but stated that they personally believe there is no God, thus they are atheists. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:34, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Strictly speaking, a 'true' atheist denies the existence of a god or gods and does not concede the possibility that "we just don't know or can't prove it." An agnostic takes the position that we do not know or cannot prove it (presently), but often actually does have a basically atheistic outlook on the universe. My opinion is that, from a purely logical standpoint, Cavil's statements make him an agnostic with an atheistic outlook. Or, in other words, he would concede that he can't REALLY prove it one way or another, but would be willing to lay a substantial wager on the non-existence of god. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:15, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

:I think the fact that Cavil ''always'' used his hands to make quotation marks in the air ''each time'' he said "God" in "Occupation/Precipice" makes it far more likely that he's not at all on the same page as most of the other Cylons. Even undercover as a brother, he flat-out denies the concept. Perhaps more light will be shed in season 3. If a Cavil encounters [[Dodona Selloi]], it would do just that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

::You know, along the lines of not being on the same page as other Cylons...you remember that the various models of Cylon were having that discussion in Exodus Part I, and Cavil excused himself from the discussion, ostensibly because his input into it was unnecessary (if I recall correctly.) I interpreted that as Cavil essentially noting to the others that he is in disagreement as to fundamental courses of action with ALL of the other models present at the meeting. You get the same vibe? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:01, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Atheism doesn't deny the existence of a god or gods, atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. You're thinking of "strong" or "positive atheism" [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:32, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

:That is one definition of the term 'atheism' to be sure, but its most common definition is indeed 'strong' atheism (as you have defined it), just as the most common definition of 'agnostic' implies lack of knowledge (or indeed, as a necessary consequence, a belief) as to same. Just what we mean by having a 'belief' is actually quite hard to define. But, at this point in the discussion, for purposes of probing Cavil's psyche, I think we are talking of distinctions without a difference. ;-) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 17:52, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

== Sleep Agent ==
Is Galactica Cavil a sleeper agent? I tend to think that he is because he seems to have a fake history and seems that sleepers tend defend themselves strongly when accused of being a cylon. Notice the difference betweem Galactica Cavil and Caprica Cavil in their responses to being accused. I know the Cylon Party comment does weaken the argument. Thoughts? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:48, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:He wasn't a sleeper Agent as far as we know, in fact the easiness with which he "resumed" his Cylon status indicated that he was aware. The Caprican Cavil accepted it pretty quickly because eventually he planned to tell them, it was why he was there after all. The other Cavil still had his original mission to remain in secret. I take it sleepers normally don't respond well to the whole "Hey, you're a Cylon!" thing, which may be why boxing was invented, and was why Boomer had cuffs when she resurrected. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 11:20 26 June 2006 (CDT)
::In the continuity of the Miniseries novelization, Doral is a sleeper agent and he is discussed in great detail. His realization was like "flipping a switch." I know that doesn't mean much for the series, but I don't think that it is always a hard as Boomer found it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:45, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
I don't really think Cavil was a sleeper, because of how he acted with the Caprica copy. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:51, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil and Caprica Six Revelations ==
I have a problem with the following statement: "They seem to have discovered many revelations that Caprica-Six realized through her "virtual" Baltar (Downloaded). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner." I think this amounts to pure speculation, and increasingly, bad speculation as we see that Cavil is (if anything) something of a general misanthrope. At any rate, I think there is no legitimate basis for concluding that Caprica Six and the Cavils share any particular insight or common viewpoint. Thoughts? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:08, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

==Number Two?==
Hey, someone pointed out to me that it was edited on wikipedia[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylon_%28Battlestar_Galactica%29#Humanoid_Cylons] that Cavil's number is "Two" and that it was apparently revealed through close cationing. I'm not sure if this is canon, but if someone can tell me more info on this...

I'm assuming it's a mistake, and that whoever posted it confused the close captioning in LDYBII, when it says "Cavil#2" (to differentiate Cavils) and assumed it meant that was his model number, but I do not know.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:00, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

:I think that is, as you suspected, an error in captioning context. As well, I don't think that Cavil will sit well with being known as "number two." He's a dark fellow, will nuke your house, put you in front of a firing squad. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:14, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::Amen, brother. But he won't nuke your house, he'll only reduce your family down to a more manageable number, say 2. But that is only after he puts you down with his pesimistic superiority and complains about a headache. {{unsigned|Straycat0}}

:::And it will be done to instill fear into the people's hearts and minds, because as he sees it, fear is a key article of faith. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

::::Dean Stockwell said, in an interview, that he had been told he was number 2 --[[User:Genome4824|GMo >:M:<]] 21:52, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

:::::No, what he said was -

:::::'''''"I turned out to be number three, Brother Cavil, of the significant seven."'''''

:::::My guess is he meant that he was the third Cylon revealed (since the mini) because the position of "number three" is already occupied. And he's not number 2, that was a mistake on someone, the captioning is not referring to that.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:15, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

::'''"Number Two: This is three downloads for me."''' that is the quote from the Captioning for Exodus Part I. I believe that the Evidence he is #2 has been presented. If it saying that on Sci-Fi Channel itself can't be counted as Canon what can? -- [[User:Genome4824|GMo >:M:<]] 22:35, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Well, aside from the fact that my captions don't say that, it's still close captioning, which has proven unreliable before. We can't consider it canon unless revealed in some other manner in which we can be '''sure''' it's not a mistake. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:49, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Captions should be taken with a grain of salt, like the 54289/[[Viper 289]] caption from Flight of the Phoenix. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:22, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Agreed. Captions when there is two or more people that are the same, usually have #1 and #2. This is an error. Repated edits to indicate Cavil as number two will be considered vandlism under the [[BW:EW]] policy. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:37, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

: Can we all agree that it should be added to his page and the [[Portal:Cylons|Cylon Page]] under notes with a link to this discussion page. Not everyone goes right to the Discussion pages. -- [[User:Genome4824|GMo >:M:<]] 10:47, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Number One

2006-11-30T00:34:50Z

Commander Mazien: /* Analysis */

{{Character Data
|photo=Cavilo.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon Infiltrator, Priest
|rank=
|actor= [[Dean Stockwell]]
|cylon= y
|name= Cavil ?
}}

'''Cavil''' is a [[Cylon agent]] who, prior to being discovered, posed as a [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonial]] [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Clergy|priest]].

While other Cylon agents have a number associated with their model, such as [[Number Six]] and [[Number Three]], the number designation for the Cavil model is currently unknown.

==''Galactica'' Copy==

On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', the first viewed copy of Brother Cavil provides counsel for [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] after Tyrol's maddened attack against [[Cally]]. Cavil identifies the source of Tyrol's anxiety as arising from the fear that he could be a [[Cylon agent|Cylon sleeper agent]]. This Cavil seems to be personally very familiar with Tyrol and is apparently aware that [[Cally]] harbors romantic feelings for him ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). The significance of Cavil's interest in Tyrol's personal affairs, if any, is unknown.

A somewhat eccentric figure, Cavil is a surprisingly harsh critic of prayer for a priest, but claims to have been preaching "longer than you [Tyrol] have been sucking down oxygen" ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). This interesting claim, if true, implies that the humanoid [[Cylon agent]]s came into existence no later than approximately ten years after the end of the [[First Cylon War]] (assuming that Tyrol is approximately 30 years old). Whether Cavil is being truthful cannot be determined at this time.

Despite his cynicism, Cavil prays with [[Laura Roslin]] for her re-election to the presidency to be successful. When Tyrol deduces the Caprica copy of him as a Cylon, Cavil is thrown in the brig along with his copy. He is later ejected through an airlock along with his copy. Due to the loss of the [[Resurrection Ship]], his death is presumed to be final. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Caprica Copy==
[[Image:Cyca2.jpg|left|thumb|Caprican Cavil]]
A second copy of this model emerges from the crew of resistance members rescued by the Caprica [[SAR]] team, telling them that the Cylons had left the Colonies. What he does not tell them — until Tyrol blew his cover upon his arrival at ''Galactica'' — is that he is a Cylon.

Due to this copy's discovery, the Fleet copy is arrested as well and thrown in ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'''s brig. Laura Roslin orders them ejected into space after Caprica-Cavil informs her and Admiral Adama that the Cylons had made two mistakes: the attack on the Colonies and the pursuit of [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). Due to the loss of the Resurrection Ship, his death is presumed to be final. Though their execution was not shown, a later conversation indicated that they were executed ([[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II, deleted scene]]).

Like his Fleet counterpart, the Caprica copy also expresses doubt in the active involvement of divine forces in the real world, although he focuses his contempt on the Cylon religion. He says that "There is no God", something that the Cavils have been telling the other Cylons for years, though he acknowledges that God's existence or nonexistence can't actually be proven. Based on his conversation with the Fleet copy, this viewpoint appears to be shared between at least these two copies, and possibly across the entire model.

==New Caprica Copies==
[[Image:Cavz.jpg|thumb|right|A Cavil on New Caprica]]

At least two copies of Cavil are present in the invasion fleet on New Caprica, as seen in [[Occupation]] and [[Precipice]], though there are probably a lot more. They have some authority over humans in detainment, as [[Ellen Tigh]] is able to use sexual favors to bribe another into releasing [[Saul Tigh]]. This may have been a self-serving ruse, because after a second sexual encounter, Cavil says to her of Saul, "When's his next meeting with the insurgents?" and "we know he's their leader - why do you think we let him out of detention?". Ellen replies, "I thought it was because of the 'twist'", referring to a sex act, and Cavil says, "oh, yes, that too."

Two copies, possibly those same two, are also involved in the Cylon leaders' discussions such as whether to kill [[Gauis Baltar]].

Another copy (or perhaps one of the previous two) also acts as a type of liaison between the [[New Caprica Police|NCP]] and their Cylon masters. He gives [[Jammer]] the list of Colonials to detain, and later accompanies the NCP to the site of a mass execution of Colonial Detainees ([[Occupation]]).

The NCP liasion version is critically wounded during an attack by the Resistance movement. Cavil is left with a bullet wound to the stomach and is left to die after the detainees are liberated. Cavil resorts to suicide by severing his [[w:carotid artery|carotid artery]] with a spent casing. He downloads into a new body for the third time — an experience that, as he explains, is similar to having a white hot poker slammed through his skull ([[Exodus, Part I]]).

Shortly before her death [[Ellen Tigh]] descibes the Cavil copy she seduced as the one "in charge" of the Detention Facility([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==Analysis==
The Cavils appear to be very radical thinkers, and demonstrate a unity among the model not seen in any other. Copies appear to have a well-developed sense of sardonic humor and are given to making jokes in even the most awkward, dangerous, and heightened circumstances ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]], [[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). They seem to have discovered many revelations that [[Caprica-Six]] realized through her "virtual" Baltar ([[Downloaded]]). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner.

In [[Occupation]] and [[Precipice]], the Cavils are the most ''outwardly'' ruthless and cruel to humans. Perhaps even more troubling, the Cavils appear to take pleasure (or at least a noticeable level of amusement) in their own acts of psychological and physical cruelty. ([[Occupation]], [[Precipice]]). The Cavils like toying with the idea of liquidating the human population on New Caprica as a solution to the Resistance, to "Perhaps a more managable number. Say, less than a thousand." Viewers can infer (correctly or not) from the New Caprica detention scene between a Cavil and [[Saul Tigh]] that a Cavil is significantly involved in the brutal, months-long interrogation (in response to Tigh's terrorist attacks against the Cylons and the [[New Caprica Police]]). In conversation with the other Cylons, Cavils are vocal and callous proponents of harsh measures against the [[New Caprica Resistance]] and are strong advocates of mass executions.

It is ironic that the first two known copies of this apparently atheistic or agnostic model pose as clergymen. This may be an intentional mockery of religion on their part, or a mockery of the Cavils by whomever assigned them their roles as infiltrators.

With the Cylons apparently occupying [[New Caprica]] at the end of the [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|episode]], it appears that the Cavils on ''Galactica'' are either lying about the Cylon change of heart or the Cylon plans changed after the second Cavil was captured on ''Galactica''.

In "[[Exodus, Part I]]" it is learned that at least one Cavil unit, the leader of the execution squad intercepted by the Resistance and who died there (his third death), experienced increasing head pain with each resurrection. This could involve all humanoid Cylon models or be unique to the Cavil model due to apparent age. Their appearance is of a man in his early 60's to early '70s.

==Notes==

Despite waging constant attacks against the Cylons for nine months, the [[Caprica Resistance]] seemingly had never before encountered a Cavil model prior to their rescue.

The word ''cavil'' is a noun and verb involving an irrelevant or trivial point made during an argument or discussion; synonyms include ''quibble'' and ''carp.'' ([http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cavil Dictionary Reference])

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Cavil]]
[[Category:Cylons|Cavil]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Cavil]]
[[Category:RDM|Cavil]]

Caprica Resistance

2006-11-30T00:31:17Z

Commander Mazien:

:''This page covers the resistance movement on Caprica. For the episode of the same name, see "[[Resistance (episode)]]."''

The '''resistance''' is a loose organization of survivors of the [[Cylon Holocaust]] on Caprica working to actively oppose the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] forces occupying the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]].

[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] encounter the Caprica resistance, who initially believe the two are [[Cylon agent]]s before Thrace and Helo manage to convince them otherwise.

The resistance cell that Helo and Starbuck encounter is led by [[Samuel Anders|Anders]], a former professional [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] player. Anders and several other members of his team, the [[Caprica Buccaneers]], were in the high mountains well outside the city at the time of the Cylon attack. After they initial attack the formed a resistance movement centered around their pyramid team, supplemented by hikers and other survivalists who had remained alive in the mountains when the Cylons hit. They have survived by raiding old [[Colonial Fleet|military]] stores for munitions and other supplies, including anti-radiation medicine. They conduct guerilla attacks against the Cylons in an attempt to keep the enemy forces off balance and, hopefully, to force them to leave their colony.

The resistance is based out of [[Delphi Union High School]] just outside the city of [[Delphi]] ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

The resistance leads an assault against a Cylon-operated [[Farms|farm]] where Kara Thrace and [[Sue-Shaun]] are incarcerated. Thrace escapes on her own power, but finds Sue-Shaun already connected to the Cylon devices intended to harvest her ovums or impregnate her. Thrace mercy-kills Sue-Shaun on her request.

As Thrace leaves the building, she encounters a second copy of [[Simon]] (she killed the first copy moments before). The resistance team eliminate this copy quickly, but are soon pinned down by [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]] gunfire before renegade Cylon [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] obliterates the Cylons from a stolen [[Heavy Raider]] and evacuates the humans from the area.

Anders hides Kara Thrace's [[Arrow of Apollo]] on the high school grounds and returns it to her before she, Valerii, and Helo escape the planet and return to [[Laura Roslin]] and her [[Laura Roslin faction|faction]] above [[Kobol]] ([[The Farm]]).

The resistance finds its numbers heavily weakened after a Cylon attack, months after Thrace leaves their party. Fortunately, a massive [[SAR]] effort, led by Thrace, returns to find Anders and the remnants of his team. After the group's ambush by Cylon forces (who mysteriously withdraw some time later), Anders' resistance team boards the SAR [[Raptor]]s and leave Caprica for the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Notes==

Despite waging constant attacks against the Cylons for nine months, they seemingly had never before encountered a [[Cavil]] model prior to their rescue.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Cylon Centurion Model 0005/Archive 1

2006-11-30T00:24:21Z

Commander Mazien: /* Spelling */

You know, I really think it's spelled "centurion." [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 06:06, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT)
:Yup - it looks like rather a lot of articles have had the spelling "corrected" recently! -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 08:08, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT)

:: (raises eyebrow) Interesting... For anyone interested, it is spelled Centurion. [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Centurion] Although, in the screencapture of the piece of paper that the [[Armistice Officer]] was reading from the mini-series, it is spelled "centurian"... Can someone please note that the spelling on that piece of paper is also incorrect -- as I noted, the paper also has the word "[[yahren]]" on it. Obviously, the Colonials in the new BSG don't use that term for year. (Then again, I suppose that the paper wasn't supposed to have been scrutinized by fans in the first place; they didn't account for the "pause" feature on DVD players and the screencapture ability of computer DVD playback software.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:11, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT)

::: I'd be interested in seeing this freeze frame, if you have the image. I watched the miniseries on TV.... [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

:::: Here's [http://battlestarwiki.joebeaudoin.net/index.php?title=Image:Cylon_centurion_model_0005.jpg the image]. It's also linked on this article's page... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:43, 18 Apr 2005 (EDT)

hi all. I changed them all to reflect the on-screen spelling. though Centurion is our historical spelling, it is not unexpected that the spelling could have changed to Centurian for the series. think yahren, volton, frack/frak, chamalla, etc. also, the old Mattel toys list the spelling with an "a" [http://www.bugeyedmonster.com/toys/battlestar/figures.shtml]. those toys and the Model 0005 sheet i took as canonical, but i admit it is possible the spelling changed between TOS and RDM. because of finances i do not own TOS on DVD; does the insert or extra materials have a definitive spelling? do the sub-titles reveal the correct spelling? is it possible it was "a" for TOS/1980 series, and "o" for the Hatch, video game, and RDM projects? if there is overwhelming canonical evidence (e.g., sub-titles, officially licensed products) regarding the true spelling(s), i will gladly change them back. -- [[User:Ryq|ryq]]

: As I own the TOS DVDs, I'll take a look into them to see what the spelling is. From what I remember, it ''is'' usually "centurion" as in the centurions from Rome. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:34, 26 Apr 2005 (EDT)

:: With the exception of the verbatim quote of the Armistice Officer's datasheet, I am (reluctantly ;)) moving the names back to "Centurion" or "Centurion (TOS)". I also moved this discussion page. Sorry for the delay. -- [[User:Ryq|ryq]] 10:52, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

== Unemployed ==

Some of these fellows have been seen panhandling on the street after their replacement by modern Centurions, it's quite sad: [http://www.kropserkel.com/Images/kropcentonset.jpg].

==Question on Sentience==

I am in full agreement with Farago on this. Just because the ''current'' upgraded Centrions are not ''fully'' sentient (free will, etc.), doesn't mean that the Original Centurions were not. Else how would they rebel? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:40, 10 February 2006 (EST) ''Take a chance!'', ''S:AAB''

*I'd like to point out that I think the Season Premiere basically confirmed that the older ones were sentient. From how Adama said things, it seems the colonials originally did make their Cylons/Centurions sentient, which was how they were able to rebel. The Cylons then proceeded to making non-sentient Centurions so they could prevent something like what they did from happening. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:29, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

::Or at least, the original Centurions were designed with the ability to shoot humans (probably as weapons of war), whereas the humanoid Cylons programmed them so that they would never shoot a humanoid Cylon. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:38, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

==Still around==
:Centurion 99 adds:
:''it is implied by [[Number Six]] that some might still be around''
Haven't we been over this about half a dozen times? I thought consensus on this was that Six was most likely referring to the newer "bullethead" models. The 0005 hasn't been since since the miniseries, and only then in cardboard cutout form. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:17, 23 March 2006 (CST)

:In the event that I'm misremembering, and we haven't actually discussed this before, let me briefly lay out the basis for my position.
:*The current centurion still fits the appelation "walking chrome toasters", and they have been referred to explicitly by other characters on several occasions ("Let's go toaster shopping," etc.)
:*The leap between the 0005 and the current model is so miniscule when compared to the leap between the centurions and the humanoid cylons that Six's comment could easily be taken to refer to the current model, even if it was a considerably more advanced variety than the 0005, the last one the colonials had truly encountered.
:*We haven't seen any of the 0005s since their very brief appearance in the miniseries, which appeared to be a friendly call-back to the original series. In my opinion, it's highly unlikely that we'll ever seen the 0005s again, therefore it seems unlikely that we'll ever have any positive evidence that they're still in use. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 23 March 2006 (CST)

== TOS breakout ==
Merv has suggested (at [[Talk:Cylon Models#Re: Centurion Model 0005]]) breaking out the TOS(/1980) Centurion continuity information into a separate article . Such an effort would require:
# Creating the new TOS Centurion article. (Centurion (TOS)?)
# Creating any necessary disambiguation pages/lines.
# Changing any links/redirects that point to this article and refer to TOS/1980 continuity to the TOS Centurion article.
I'm not going to do this right away, but if anybody has any thoughts about how (or whether) we should do this any input/collaboration/help is appreciated. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:25, 21 July 2006 (CDT)

== Spelling ==
I found another piece of "Centurian" lore. There's a readout on the advanced A-B fighter that's about to crash (in the 1980 episode "The Night the Cylons Landed") that predicts that the "Centurian" models have a 3% survival chance on impact. (At which point the Centurions (Centurians?) all look at each other nervously.) I don't have much chance of getting a screencapture of it (unfortunately Tivo2Go has a glitch that cuts out transfers if there's major pixellation at any point in the show), but I thought I'd mention it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:44, 22 November 2006 (CST)

==Downloading==

Did the surviving 0005 models download (per say) their sentience and memories into Cylon Agent models once they discovered the concept of biological Cylons? Since Cylons can't give birth, the Agents had to come from '''somewhere'''. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 18:24, 29 November 2006 (CST)

2006-11-28T02:16:18Z

Commander Mazien:

Talk:Battle of NCD2539/Archive 1

2006-11-28T02:12:52Z

Commander Mazien:

Atlantia (TRS)

2006-11-28T01:49:34Z

Commander Mazien:

:''For information on an [[Original Series]] [[Battlestar (TOS)|battlestar]] of the same name, see [[Atlantia (TOS)]].''

{{Ship Data
| image=
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Primary and point-defense [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Destroyed in [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon Attack]]
}}

The battlestar '''''Atlantia''''' featured integrated command and control systems and Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]]'s [[Command Navigation Program]] (CNP). She is selected by Admiral [[Nagala]] as their flagship during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon Attack]] after [[Fleet Headquarters]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] is destroyed.

''Atlantia'' herself is soon reported destroyed over [[the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], a victim of the [[backdoor]]s created by the Cylons using the compromised CNP ([[Miniseries]]).

It was on ''Atlantia'' that [[William Adama]] made his 1,000th Viper landing ([[Act of Contrition]]) and received the promotion to Major ([[Hero]]). At one point in his career, Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]] served aboard ''Atlantia'' before finally being assigned to ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

According to Adama's dossier, the ship is at least a decade old by the time of the Cylon attack.

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]
[[Category:Battlestars (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:New Caprica Police/Archive 1

2006-11-26T21:10:20Z

Commander Mazien: /* Expansion */

A capture of the recruitment poster would be nice for this page :-). --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:15, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:So say we [[:Image:New Caprica Police Poster.jpg|all..]] ... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:41, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
::Surely a [[By_your_command|By Your Command]] would be more appropriate, given who NCP serve... :P [[User:Hyperdistortion|Hyperdistortion]] 15:03, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
::: I found nice screen of that poster. Here: <nowiki>http://img.waffleimages.com/img/7fce89fa344c5298c42df902f3c7e2c1cd2863af/bsgtheresistance1.jpg</nowiki> 
[[User:Deus|Deus]] 17:15, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
:::: I just uploaded my newest drawing, which happens to be the NCP badge. [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/NCPbadge.gif find it here]. --07:13, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Looks good, but the font in the real logo isnt curvey and tends of hace angled edges, more like a stencil type font. Just a suggestion... --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:30, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

::::::Uploaded a new version same filename. Link up there will still work for it. I got myself a better screencap so the colors now match as well. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 00:48, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

==Expansion==
Interestingly, on the arm patch, the "NCP" logo is bordered by "New Caprica Security Forces", not "New Caprica Police". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:34, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

:It's probably just an alternate name. But it would be harder to fit NCSF on an arm patch than just NCP. Regardless, this deserves mention. --[[User:Homeworld|Homeworld]] 22:36, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
::It's also possible that the "New Caprica Security Force" is organization of which the NCP is a part; the NCP are merely the "human" arm, whereas the Centurions and baseships in orbit are merely different arms of the NCSF. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:43, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

==Guns==

Does anybody know what type of weapons the police were allowed (if any)? I would think that the Cylons wouldn't want to actually arm possible rebels with guns, or did they just give them shock rods or something? [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 15:10, 26 November 2006 (CST)

New Caprica Police

2006-11-26T21:06:53Z

Commander Mazien:

[[Image:New Caprica Police Poster.jpg|200px|thumb|right|New Caprica Police Recruitment Poster "Keeping your streets safe!"]]
[[Image:Close up of NCP Poster.png|200px|thumb|right|Close up ([[Occupation]])]]

Because the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] occupation of [[New Caprica]] leads to numerous security restrictions and heightened levels of control and repression on the planet, a band of human [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance]] fighters, regarded by the Cylons as insurgents, begins to strike back against the occupying Cylon army. This leads to the formation of The '''New Caprica Police''' (NCP), humans who either volunteer or are coerced into working for the Cylon authority. Wearing black ski masks, blue body armor, and green uniforms with white armbands, the New Caprica Police are considered traitors to the human race and are regarded with both disgust and disdain by the majority of the planet's human civilization. The NCP is often tasked with performing "dirty work" for the Cylons, rounding up both suspects believed to be part of the resistance as well as innocent civilians who are often illegally imprisoned, beaten and executed.

The Resistance estimates that up to 200 humans are secretly working for the NCP ([[Occupation]]).

The most significant damage the resistance inflicts on the NCP comes when the group is infiltrated by [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]], a member of the insurgency driven into suicidal depression by the death of his partner, [[Nora]], who was killed during a Cylon attack in a makeshift [[temple]] used by the humans.

Clellan is wired with and detonates an explosive device in a suicide attack during the graduation ceremony of a New Caprica Police academy class of two hundred cadets and Cylon VIP guests ([[Occupation]]). Casualties include thirty-three cadets and numerous Cylons. [[Jammer|James "Jammer" Lyman]], a New Caprica Police captain and former deckhand under Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] on ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', survives the attack.

After the human population escapes New Caprica and reunites with the Fleet, a number of known and suspected collaborators, including Jammer, are charged with and convicted of crimes against humanity and treason. They are summarily executed by [[The Circle]], a tribunal secretely created under the executive order of President [[Tom Zarek]] to decide the fate of people implicated as collaborators during the Cylon occupation of New Caprica. However, due to President Roslin's order, all surviving members are granted amnesty and pardons for any collaboration with the Cylons.

== Note ==

The recruiting poster seen in ''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]'' depicts a man in black clothing, despite all police seen on duty being dressed as above.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]