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Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Archive4

2009-01-14T16:29:45Z

Centurion 51773: /* Just a feeling. . . */ new section

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== To <s>quote</s> paraphrase Bill Pullman from ''ID4''... "Let's nuke the bastard." ==

To offer a different perspective from ColonelKevin's point, I think this article really needs to be airlocked and approached in a completely different light. I've really felt this way from the get go, but my feelings are reinforced by the fact that this is the last and final season, and the article will then enter a state of total and complete obsolescence, particularly from an "out of universe perspective".

What I am proposing is that the article be written to detail "in universe" Cylon speculation and how they've dealt with the threat of Cylons looking human. I'm looking at documenting the overall human reaction to this, which would include things like [[Sesha Abinell]]'s conspiracy theories, the Colonials attempts at a Cylon detector, the Fleet leadership's concerns about releasing the information before "[[Litmus]]", etc. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 23:34, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think it's "Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.". And.. I agree. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 23:41, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:: You're right, Mr. Quotables... I meant "paraphrasing". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 23:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Seems like a good idea. From what I can infer, most, if not all, of the in-universe early-S4 speculation will be on Starbuck, so we might need to decide where we draw the lines between this article, [[Kara Thrace]] and [[The Destiny]]. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 00:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

:I agree somewhat. We know that many people love this speculation and the survey also shows that some people expect it here. But IMHO, it's just inane and verges on the annoying. There are so many fan theories floating around out there, it's flat out impossible to reflect even a good part of it. The problem is also, that what started out as interesting and ''grounded'' speculation, has deteriorated into complete bullshit by now, also due to the introduction of the Final Five. Especially with the latter, we can't really know which criteria even imply for potential cylonicity. In that regard, I've always felt that this wiki is a place for fact, analysis and some well-founded speculation here and there; and that complete speculation - like this - is a matter for forums. There are dozens of forums with endless threads of Final Five speculation, so why does this have to be rehashed on a wiki?
:That said, the article has finally approached a state where it's readable and worthy of the wiki, by excising most of the specious speculation and concentrating on a few likely characters. However, as Joe said, its validity in light of the upcoming revelations - and also the uncertain basis for the arguments - is somewhat questionable. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::While I do think it's possible to do a speculation page properly, there's no doubt that it's a huge task to produce one that's relatively grounded and well sourced, particularly considering how just about anyone could be the final cylon. It's hard to say if such a task is really worth the effort. If I had to chose between leaving the page as it is now or nuking it, I'd definetely say nuke it. Maybe take the best bits (the comment from Bradley Thompson and the Hybird prophecy, maybe the last supper picture, none of the speculation) and just place it on the section for the Final Cylon on the Humanoid Cylon article? -- [[User:ColonelKevin|ColonelKevin]] 16:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I think collecting the pro/anti cylon clues for the characters is worthwhile. But perhaps it should be just done as two sets of bullet points per character -- reasons why, and why not they could be a Cylon. Tell people to stick to itemizing information from canon/official, leave it to the reader to judge what it means. Then add one broad section on non-character specific information (like the last supper etc.)--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 17:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

This article used to be a load of bullet points, but people didn't like that so we changed it to its current state. Despite writing about half of the article as it stands, I'm not a big fan of it. The problem is mainly with the in-universe clues, someone, somewhere will have some reason why pretty much any arbitrary scene means some character being a Cylon. There are some relatively good things to consider [Baltar's hallucinations, Starbuck's return from the dead], but eventually you have to draw the line somewhere [Some people take Leoben saying "Adama's a Cylon" as a clue, is that justified?]. It's all terribly subjective and messy and not really for an encyclopaedia. Having a comprehensive coverage of fan speculation is both impossible and undesirable.

I think the best thing about the article is that it stopped speculation spilling into other parts of the Wiki. An '''in'''-universe look at the issue would be better, and probably quite pertinent for season 4. Nevertheless, fan speculation on who is and isn't a Cylon has been an important part of the viewing experience (whenever I meet a Galactica fan the fisrt question I always ask is "Who do you think the last Cylon is?")

Consequently, it is worth considering if we can find a way to cover, out-of-universe, that element of the viewing experience in an encyclopaedic manner without necessarily joining in. At the very least we could include a line like: "Since the outset of the show fans have speculated on who could be a Cylon. Theories for practically every character exist, with fans drawing justification from events in both aired content and comments from cast and crew."

Also we need to consider what happens to [[Baltar as Cylon speculation]], which is a very detailed essay, but probably not encyclopaedic. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 18:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:So, what's the plan? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 23:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Well, as you noted, the problem is that we'll never be able to cover fan theories in an encyclopedic format... Fan theories are really a dime a dozen, and to cover even 10% of them would be extremely biased. It seems quite apparent to me that the best bet would be to put the [[Baltar as Cylon speculation]] page to pasture, and redo the "humanoid Cylon speculation" page from an in-universe perspective, as I had suggested. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 23:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::What do you have in mind exactly? There isn't really any in-universe speculation for the final Cylon, expect for Baltar, which is covered in the other article. I guess we could cover the entire series and list people who were suspects at one time, which would be Boomer, Cmd. Adama, Ellen Tigh and Tyrol I guess. Maybe some more, but not a lot, and not really that interesting as it's common knowledge. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm more interested in how the humans have grappled with identifying "who's a Cylon?" throughout the series then the search for the "Last Cylon", which I really don't find that interesting. When all is said and done, finding out "who's a Cylon" isn't as interesting as people make it out to be. So, as I've stated before:
::::"What I am proposing is that the article be written to detail 'in universe' Cylon speculation and how they've dealt with the threat of Cylons looking human. I'm looking at documenting the overall human reaction to this, which would include things like [[Sesha Abinell]]'s conspiracy theories, the Colonials attempts at a Cylon detector, the Fleet leadership's concerns about releasing the information before '[[Litmus]]', etc." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, covering all that would be good and goes beyond the tired "who is a Cylon?" guessing. I agree that that's way overrated. Good TV in general isn't so much about what happens as how it affects the characters. I didn't know you wanted to go into that direction, which is why I asked. A different article name might be appropriate then, though. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::With the addition of "one will be revealed" as the core of the main titles, I have to say I differ. It seems remiss not to have a page collecting the clues to what the producers themselves have declared is the central event and mystery of the season. And there's a lot of material around this -- the debate over the last supper page, various official statements etc.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 02:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I've drafted a rebooting of this article, sticking to canonical clues with minimal speculation. The word "could" barely appears. What's the best way to introduce the new article? Created a rebooted page and later rename it if people like it?--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 04:28, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, you can create a rebooted version of the page... We can always rename it later. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
: Create it as subpage of this article. Like [[Humanoid Cylon speculation/Reboot]] -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

With the in-show revelation that the final Cylon is not in the fleet (at least according to Three), Ron Moore's comment about the final Cylon not being in the picture seems to have been given much more credence. That would seem to suggest profound implications for this page, which is premised around a major character being the most likely revelation.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 00:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Karl ==

We were actually told that Hera and Nicky '''are''' hybrid children by Mr Moore (and Baltar tests Hera's blood for her hybrid nature in [[Epiphanies]]), hence Karl (and Cally) are definitely humans. This is unless RDM is just plain lying to us, which is quite possible. Nevertheless, I have a little faith, so I'm going to revert this edit.

Oh, yeah, weren't we planning to completely overhaul this article anyway? -- 09:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

: Yeah, but go ahead and revert it. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== New theory about the final one: Benjamin "Ben" Linus from Lost ==

http://www.battlestarforum.com/showpost.php?p=15994&postcount=280 (posted into forum as suggested)

{{unsigned|Karamanthos}}

: Hi there, Karamanthos! If I might make a suggestion, you're better off adding your theories to the [http://www.battlestarforum.com Battlestar Forum]. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:02, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

== The Hybrids ==

It's a bit of a stretch, but they seem to meet most of the criteria.
*There are no Hybrids in the fleet.
*[[Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] was not in the [[The Last Supper|Last Supper image]].
*They are definitely Cylons.
*They don't have a model number.
*Redemption can mean either atonement or liberation.
*They are arguably "still in shadow".
*The "howl of terrible suffering" could refer to how the Hybrid screamed before becoming lucid in [[Faith]].
*The Hybrids played a significant role in leading the Colonials and Cylons to Earth.
There are, however, a few problems.
*The Hybrids coming from Earth seems like a stretch.
*Although we don't know how long the Hybrid concept has been around, the Hybrids weren't introduced until early season 3, and IIRC they decided on the identity of the final Cylon in season 2.
Is there enough evidence to include the Hybrids under ''others''? What about under ''more esoteric theories''? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I think "more esoteric theories" is quite applicable here. The purpose of the section is to list some of the more out-of-the-box ideas that people might have. I think it would be best to simply state it, rather than include the justification above, else the section will get cluttered (like the rest of the article). [[User:OTW|OTW]] 00:05, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Article [[Humanoid Cylon speculation/Reboot|rebooted]] ==

Ok, so I've written up a reboot of the article based on the information presented in "[[Revelations]]". That can be located [[Humanoid Cylon speculation/Reboot|here]]. If there aren't any major objections I'd like to move the reboot to the main article space no later than the end of this week. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:56, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
:Looks good :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:35, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
::Definitely an improvement. I don't know that I'd privilege the final cylon being on the basestar as a "main theory" above some of the other options like dead or unseen characters returning as the final cylon. It seems very unlikely to me that Three's words can be taken so literally, and implausible that she completely ignored a Final Five cylon already on the basestar. Debate over minor issues like that can wait until after the article is rebooted, however.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:27, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
::: True. Obviously, I have no problem with people modifying it for other speculation, such as dead characters or the like. The last permutations of this article went completely overboard, IMHO, and I really want to restrict that here as much as humanly possible. (Or at least find a balance between the two extremes.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 00:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Looks fine to me, too. The esoteric section is a bit "blogish", however. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
: While an improvement, it gives too much attention to Boomer (who is largely ruled out by D'Anna's declaration to Cavil that "There are five OTHER Cylons, Brother") and not enough attention to the dead characters, who seem to be all that is left. Now, I agree the article should focus only on real clues, and not "suspicious circumstances" and "wouldn't it be cool ifs" I do have a [http://ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/what-minor-character-final-cylon speculative article which you might find useful as source material on the dead characters]. Actual true clues (at the level of Tyrol's compulsion to seek the temple or his superior response to being spaced) of the sort we've seen before are few and far between, yet RDM promises they are there. Yet we see none for non-eliminated characters--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 06:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::That post is a very interesting read, Bradtem, and could I think be adapted to wiki-article form with very little revision.
::Another way to go with this article, which is looking better to me all the time, would be to limit it to providing background information - everything from the rebooted article up to and including "General Factors for Consideration" - but not including any specific theories. As Bradtem points out, there is really very little to base plausible speculation on. The options all seem equally unlikely: a dead returning to the bewilderment of most viewers? Number Three having some hidden reason to ignore the fifth's presence on the basestar or in the fleet? A special copy of a Cylon model? A completely new character being offered as a satisfactory conclusion to a series-long mystery in the final episode?
::I actually have faith in the writers' narrative abilities to pull off any of the above, and to do so well, but I don't think at this point we have enough information to make plausible guesses as to what they ''will'' do. It's all "More esoteric ideas" at this point.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 22:53, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
:::And that is the problem. RDM has told us he's left clues, and he did -- for characters now eliminated by him. All that stuff in the draft article is "could be" style speculation -- as is also the case with my post linked to above. Right now it may be that all an article can do is list the general clues (specific, dramatic or offscreen), most of which eliminate characters. The stuff about Boomer is not only another round of "isn't this suspicious" that can be applied to almost any character, but goes against two elimination clues. Right now I am hard pressed to come up with actual clues on the order of the ones I cite above for Tyrol.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 01:48, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Sadly, this is the problem... you've nailed it right on the head. If I may be blunt, RDM has clearly pulled a lot of things out of his ass—such as the "Final Five", and the fact that those Cylons do not have numbers—which leaves a lot of inconsistencies in the overall story, which include the inaccuracy in the number scheme (no "Number Seven"?), the whole "Cylon Resurrection Hub", and that horrendous piece of PR garbage, "The Last Supper". A lot of this show is off the cuff, and it shows ''very'' badly. Frankly, I really wish they would've called J. Michael Straczynski or some ''B5'' alumni so that the show could be properly plotted storywise. (I'd be interested to see how well this series ages in 30 years; I don't think it'll age well at all in terms of storytelling, which is very hit or miss. As you can tell, I have a very "love/hate" relationship with this series, in addition to the original.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:11, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

== Another, broader reboot ==

I have provided another form of reboot for the article [[Humanoid_Cylon_speculation/ColdBoot|here]]. The thrust is to constrain clues to three types I outline -- actual extrahuman events, dramatic mentions of cylonhood, and outside sources. I've largely stuck to it, though I have got one or two clues that go outside it, such as noting how Ellen's arrival with the fleet was extremely suspicious.

What I hope to remove are "clues" of the sort I've seen before, that say, "Dualla has been keeping herself close to the seats of power" and other activity which is suspicious, but not actually extrahuman or Cylon related. I've also abstained from clues of the "It would be really cool if Cally were the Cylon because Tory murdered her." While these sorts of dramatic hints may well be clues, the show is too full of them. If Dualla's not close to power, then somebody else is. So I do think it's OK to bend the rules for the extremely suspicious, or the very obviously dramatic foreshadowings.

To help people understand this more, I have included a list of the clues from the past that turned out to be real clues. They are very few, but people can add if they saw some others.

Different tone from Joe's, but let me know what you think, and if you like it, let's promote it to replace the old one. {{unsigned|Bradtem}}

: I like this one. I do thing a merging of the two is in order, since I personally believe there should be an "in-universe" POV for how the Fleet dealt with their own suspicions on who a Cylon could be (Baltar's detector, the paranoia concerns in the first season, etc.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah, the basics look good, but it still needs some tweaking here and there to fine-tune sentences, points, cites and such. And please, can we stop giving so much credence to Leoben's lie in "Flesh and Bone". At least it should be mentioned that it's most likely just BS instead of some "clue". -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:04, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Oh, absolutely. Could use more cites and some cleanup here and there. However, I do rather think the more obvious false clue should be mentioned "Adama is a Cylon", since it does lead to in-universe speculation—and rather humorously dark moments between Roslin and Adama in "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:12, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

==Starbuck As A Cylon==

'''''However she was also physically abused as a child and still carries the scars; Cylons seem to be more robust than humans and possibly may not carry such long-term injuries. The same may be said of the knee injury which put a stop to Thrace's Pyramid playing ambitions.'''''

What about Tigh's eye? He's a Cylon and his injury hasn't healed. that's a long-term injury that he still carries.

Starbuck can have scars and still be a Cylon.

: Yes, true. Well, this whole page will face a massive rewrite after S4.5 begins airing anyway. I'm just ready to delete this page, to be honest, since it's so bad as to be funny... and that's being generous. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:04, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

== After the final Cylon is revealed ==
Once the final Cylon is revealed, I feel that this article should cover the following:
*In-universe speculation within the show's storyline, such as the speculation on Baltar and Starbuck.
*Plausible clues that characters are Cylons at least one episode before they are revealed as such.
*Confirmed intentional hints that characters may be Cylons, including red herrings and remnants of abandoned plotlines.
-- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:43, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

: Sounds a lot better than what we have at present. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:12, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== You Will Know the Truth ==
I found a [http://jamesjacob77.blogspot.com/2008/11/who-is-final-cylon_29.html blog post] that links to [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/ this page on scifi.com]. They've also got a [http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2319583&st=0 forum thread] on it. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

== [[Zak Adama]]? ==

It's possible that Zak Adama is the final Cylon. The main reason I say this is because of [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s line in [[Flesh and Bone]]: "Adama is a Cylon." I don't think that it's William Adama, Apollo, or by extension Dualla. Is this viable enough for inclusion in the article? --[[User:JemHadar359|JemHadar359]] 05:25, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
:In this article on SyFy Portal[http://www.syfyportal.com/news425609.html], Michael Hinman claims that they have received confirmation of the identity of the final Cylon from multiple sources, and claims that the final Cylon is one of five characters listed in the article. Zak Adama is not on the list. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
: As I said before—and forgive me for soundin' like a broken record—but this article will be dead in its present (and the ColdBoot form) before the season ends anyway. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:24, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

== Just a feeling. . . ==

that the final cylon will be someone that there's been no speculation about. Someone right out of left field. Personally, I'd like to think it's. . . Romo Lampkin. [[User:Centurion 51773|Centurion 51773]] 16:29, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

User:Centurion 51773

2008-07-09T08:14:24Z

Centurion 51773:

What can I say? It's a classic design! Not that I hate the new ones; they're pretty cool, but I just love the classic toaster:[[Image:Cent 005.jpg|right]]

And my favorite character would be:
[[Image:Saul_Tigh.jpg|left|300px]]

[http://providence-progband.ca What I do when I'm not watching BSG.]

Talk:Revelations/Archive2

2008-07-07T14:54:11Z

Centurion 51773: /* Goof */

A "Lt. Gonzo Pike" is also listed on the [[:Image:GoBetween260607.jpg|casting sheet]] for "[[The Ties That Bind]]" for what it's worth. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:01, 18 November 2007 (CST)

The convention report attributes the forest scenes to episode '''11'''. Since other reports state that they have shut down after episode 13, this like means that they are the same by episode numbers. "Revelations" is episode 10 however! --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:57, 20 November 2007 (CST)
: Here's the thing though... is Katee counting "Razor" as one episode? If so, then that makes "Revelations" episode 11, by her count. Also, about 4.13... it seems that there are only 10 episodes "in the can", as far as I can determine. Also, production numbers can be taken out of order; it's happened before to series such as ''Babylon 5'' and even the original BSG. So, 4.13... Is ''that'' episode 11, or is that part of episode 10, which may be extended? Plus we have two missing episodes that are unaccounted for, 4.07 and 4.09.
: To be honest, it's a bit confusing. LOL -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 09:55, 21 November 2007 (CST)
::Right. Counting "Razor" as one episode makes this correct again. That's probably the case. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:36, 21 November 2007 (CST)

== 4.0 finale? ==

Is this the finale to the first half of the season? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

:I'd venture a "yes". Not only is the episode #10 out of 20 (excluding "Razor"), but the SciFi Channel doesn't list it either on the site in general or on their schedule. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

:It's the mid-season cliffhanger... Should add that to the notes. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== Advance screening ==

Since the episode apparently has an [http://syfyportal.com/news425104.html advance screening] tomorrow, maybe we should lock the article. I vaguely I recall that a similar screening resulted in the episode summary or analysis to be written. That's not so bad, but we have no way to verify the stuff. Plus, I don't think we should spoil it for everyone just because a handful of people have seen the episode already. It's probably not that likely that there will be massive edits, but taking precautions doesn't hurt. Someone might also read spoilers somewhere else and try to add them here. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
: I believe you are referring to "Razor". And, well, despite the advanced screening any content from it is still considered a [[BW:SP|spoiler]], since it hasn't made a nation-wide airing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah yes, Razor. That was just an internet leak though and we could easily obtain a copy as well. That's not the case with a theater screening. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, if you recall, it was also screened in certain markets about a week before the air date. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== Location on earth ==

To me the location on earth looked a bit like the ruins of Ellis Island with New York City in the backround. Am I way off? --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 10:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It's Brooklyn. [http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/913/bsgbrooklynbridgeyx0.jpg Check it out].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 11:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You are right. I didn't think that was a bridge, just a girder. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 12:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

== 5th Cylon ==

<blockquote>“Is Number Three honest in her claim that there are only four of the Final Five in the Fleet? If so, where is the fifth and last Cylon? If she's lying, is it because she still harbors distrust for her compatriots and the humans?”</blockquote>

Perhaps the 5th is already on the Basestar? [[User:Nerull|Nerull]] 13:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Were there any other major characters except Baltar and Roslin? Roslin is pretty much ruled out by the joke Five made. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 13:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
: Karl Agathon was still on the baseship, but he's human, as far as we know. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

:Yes, this is weird. Are there any major characters anywhere else? I mean, there are three Cylon models + Boomer in the Cylon fleet but they're not exactly good candidates. Did we leave someone behind somewhere? Surely, the final Cylon isn't dead. It has to be a major character. I guess it has to be one of Helo/Roslin/Baltar. I think that Roslin would be the most likely of those. The 3's question could have been meant in earnest. [[User:Haukurth|Haukurth]] 15:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm stretching this, but the five are supposed to find the way to earth. Chief, Sam and Tigh find the Viper (this could also make Starbuck a Cylon) and Roslin gives the final go for jump. There is a problem with Tory, she does nothing. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 14:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

: Tory can't do anything because the call summons her to ''Galactica'', where Starbuck's Viper is. Obviously, she's disconnected from the rest of the Four, so she has the adverse reaction. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

What about Hera? D'anna was only "interested" in the four, and that way opened the door for another less important (for now) cylon......

My thoughts were, D'anna says four are in the fleet. She also freaks out and apologizes to what is presumably the fifth cylon in her vision in a way that suggests it's personal. What if the fifth cylon is someone in the fleet who was killed either by her or the cylons as a group that she then recognized? Any people who were previously killed off by D'anna or the cylons in general that could fill that slot? I wanted to say Ellen Tigh, but Baltar did the test on her and if she'd come up positive he wouldn't be wondering who the fifth is like everyone else. --[[User:Ssiixx|Ssiixx]] 23:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Though this would be an anti climax I assume that the fifth final five is none of the caracters we already now. I think he is located on earth, maybe waiting in some bunker or whatever. He could also be on his own ship, not too far away from the cylons and humans, watching.
Since there is a lot more to explain about the time that passed from the end of the cylon war to their reappearing, I assume that the last cylon is also the link between the twelve human cylon models and the rest of the cylon race. Even if he IS the rest. [[User:Lincore|Lincore]] 02:03, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

:From a narrative perspective, it is improbable that D'Anna was being absurdly literal, excluding a character who happened to be on the basestar at the moment she said "There are four in your fleet." Since her goal was to get the final five to the basestar, it would make little sense for her to ignore one that was already there.
:I think the living human characters are fairly effectively ruled out, but that doesn't necessarily entail an anti-climactic revelation to come. On the contrary, revealing Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Roslin, or Baltar to be a Cylon is exactly what is expected, and this is a show which is built on defying expectations. What is needed to create a suitable climax for the series as a whole is not simply a revelation of the sort, "____ was a Cylon all along!" Instead, it needs to be a revelation that lays bare the show's mythology, that explains what happened three thousand years ago and why all of this seems to have been manipulated into occurring today. To fulfill that function a non-central character that played a crucial role in the past actually works better.
:Of course, it could all be foilers, and it could just be Roslin.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 19:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

== Earth - Speculation ==

Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, according to the hybrid. She is also the only character we know has been to Earth. What if she triggered a series of events that led to the destruction of the 13th tribe? She probably isn't the 5th, but she's something else. I think she's playing the character of Krishna for those of you who've read Bhagavad Gita, but at the same time her connections to the arrow of Apollo make me think she might be Arjuna. In either case, her counterpart would be the 5th.

What is hard to explain is her viper. How does it explode visibly and then come back in mint condition in the nebula? Vipers don't have FTL either, so everything seems weird.

* International Space Station and satellites probably wouldn't be affected by nuclear war
* They can't all be dead - there's got to be somebody alive from the 13th tribe.
* New York, sure, but who would waste a nuke on New Jersey? (*grin*)

--[[User:Smari|Smari]] 14:45, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

ISS and other spacecraft in low-earth orbit will see their orbits decay within a decade (or even less) due to atmospheric drag without periodic reboosts (the demise of Skylab in 1979 is a perfect example of this). Even satellites in pretty high Earth orbit will fall back to Earth within a few hundred years - assuming that a significantly long time has elapsed since whatever happened on Earth, the only stuff left in orbit will be stuff out at the Clarke (geosynchronous) orbit.

--[[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 15:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but not much time has passed in the fleet, yet the plants growing on the ruins suggest the event was a long time ago. However, there was a time discrepancy associated with Kara's previous visit.

--[[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 16:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The article states that "[...] the series is set in the future and not the past [...]." This is not necessarily true. That - what was his name again - hybrid in razor said, that this happens "again, again, again...", so I came to the conclusion, that this might as well be our past. Maybe next time, it goes the other way round and people are escaping from earth after it was nuked by cylons or - whatever is next in line - and the human race is looking for an ancient world called... caprica for instance. This would make the Galactica Noah's Ark. Just my two cents... [[User:Lincore|Lincore]] 01:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Locating Earth based on just a bearing ==

There's a comment made in the main article stating that making a precision jump based solely on a bearing seems unlikely. It doesn't seem to me like this would necessarily be the case. Based on the bearing, Galactica should be able to scan in that direction, looking for solar systems. From there, they could scan for inhabitable planets. Assuming they truly are in our solar system, that narrows it down to one planet. We know that Colonial FTLs are capable of some extremely precise jumps, so jumping into orbit doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

The part that seems unlikely to me is that the fleet has been haphazardly stumbling around all this time jumping from point to point, several hundred jumps from the 12 Colonies. Now the Fleet is within jump range of Earth, without even knowing exactly where they were going.

--[[User:Scionic|Scionic]] 16:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think the Fleet jumped from their position to Earth in one jump. Getting to Earth probably took many jumps, which is what Lee meant when he said his course would have to be corrected as they went. The writers just skipped all these intermediate jumps and cut straight ahead to the final one. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 22:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::Even given that, it would be more believable to jump somewhere into the solar system rather than directly into orbit on the final jump. That's really just dramatic license. However, as said above, it makes sense that they would use astronomical readings to determine the location of star systems in the direction. But, it wouldn't be the usual generic, faster-than-light sci-fi scans. BSG's stellar navigation is mostly more in line with real astronomy, i.e. using passive readings -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:::In watching the episode again, it looks like they very well might be inside the Sol System for their final jump, presumably to save time/fuel instead of slogging their away across the system at sublight. The last establishing shot of the fleet before the final jump shows a yellow star, fairly close. This is presumably our Sun. Plus, I have to say I disagree on the method of stellar navigation. For general in-system navigation and plotting, passive systems would make sense, but for FTL jumps (which have been indicated to be many light-years long), sci-fi faster-than-light scans would almost be necessary. Otherwise they'd be jumping into a region of space based on a scan that is many months or even years old. It would be like mounting an FTL drive on my car, and jumping into the middle of a busy freeway based on a picture I took a couple weeks ago - I could very well jump into the middle of another car, jump into a location that no longer exists, etc. --[[User:Scionic|Scionic]] 06:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Better sure, but such magical technology simply doesn't exist. And all serious works of sci-fi deal a bit with the lightspeed information lag. True, BSG makes jumps next to planetary bodies and especially ships way too easy sometimes, but now and then, it's also pointed out how dangerous such jumps are. And that whole thing is the reason behind the term [[Red Line]]. A limit behind which jumps can't be plotted (e.g. stellar movement extrapolated from known data) accurately enough to have a certain margin of error. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::The Universe is a very big and empty place... Using normal tools they indeed see outdated images, the way things were months maybe years before... But the movement of stars and planets can be easily observed and predicted accurately enough to jump in space and not inside a star or planet. Remember, they don't have to jump directly into orbit around Earth, probably not even in the solar system, just close enough to get a closer look and get more accurate coordinates... -- [[User:Evilforce|Evilforce]] 11:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::I'm not just talking about the episode specifically, but the series in general. For planets that surely works. That's what I meant above. But they also jump extremely close to ships without problems. And their movement couldn't be predicted. That part is unrealistic. But never mind; it's pretty pointless to discuss this at such length. We kinda agree anyways :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::About jumping close to ships: I've got a little theory about that which I brought up in some long forgotten thread at Battlestar Forum: distance between ships is preserved through a jump. By this, I mean that the distance between e.g. ''Galactica'' and ''Colonial One'' after the jump will be equal to the one before it, because they made the exact same jump. For the same reason, you should be able to jump close to or even in the middle of the Fleet, provided you jumped away from that same spot. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Is it Earth at all? ==
Is the planet actually Earth? No recognisable land masses are visible from orbit, unlike in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]". The ruins look vaguely like Brooklyn and the Temple of Aurora, but it's inconclusive. The only thing conclusive is the star patterns match. Perhaps this is another pointer along the way. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 16:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:The scriptures say the dying leader wasn't supposed to survive to see their new home, although that's making two assumptions - that the dying leader is Roslin and the new home is the planet. --[[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 23:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::"Inductive reasoning is the death of philosophy". You can never prove anything definitively based on observed evidence, but I'd be willing to bet my house (if I owned one) on that being Earth. Aside from the many, many on-screen things, it would be a huge slap in the face to viewers if this was just [[Terra]] or something. Consider that the writers have set up this exquisite concept that in the near future civilisation is destroyed, only for it to be revealed that this is just some arbitrary planet. (Plus a few spoilers for episodes ahead do say this is Earth). Sometimes a spade is just a desolute, lifeless and radioactive spade. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 23:43, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:::The discussion about the lack of recognisable land masses made me realise something - there's no sign of the Moon. I thing the writers have been very clever hiding any definitive traces that this is indeed Earth - there are after all 3 other Sun-like stars nearby to us, and the Fleet may be elsewhere. If we saw a recognisable land form or Luna herself, there would be no doubt - but an interesting door has been left open, I think. [[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 13:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::It's curious, but the destroyed city is clearly New York. And you don't necessarily see the moon even in a wide shot of space. That depends on the direction of the view. Besides, there are only 10 episodes left. There isn't really much point in such an elaborate deception when there are other story and character arcs to tie up. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:58, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::Maybe it's clearly NYC to you, but only vaguely to me. But there's also the possibility they added so much cloud to keep the condition of the surface hidden until the revealing moment, and to have enough debris in the atmosphere for consistency with a nuclear winter. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 11:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::We won't resolve this one until the rest of the season. Starbuck made a big deal about the moon, photographed it, oddly called it a "yellow moon" and said that was a key clue from Pythia. We don't yet know why the moon would be yellow, but we can be pretty sure if the moon from Starbuck's photos and Pythia's legend were not there, they would have noticed it. "Uh, hey, where's the giant moon?" It's the yellow part that is interesting.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 02:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

== The possible finale? ==
Back before the season started and during the Writer's Strike, Sackhoff made a comment that the last episode they'd filmed might have acted as a series finale if the strike had gone on long enough that they couldn't return to work. Now, according to the Wiki, it's the next episode that she was referring to, but I was wondering how sure we were of that. There seems to have been a lot of confusion about which episodes production people are talking about. And I feel, after watching Revelations, that it seems like a likely candidate for the episode she was talking about. Thoughts? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:I think we're pretty much certain. Sometimes a Great Notion was the last episode written before the strike and the last episode filmed before the break, and the scenes mentioned [http://roadrunnerdm.livejournal.com/84288.html here] take place after the end of Revelations. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Far fetched Jehovah's Witnesses connection? ==

To summarize: The Landing party appears to be on a plot of land that is very reminiscent of Brooklyn Heights looking out over to a land mass that has a similar topography of Manhattan Island with a structure to the extreme right that looks vaguely like a wrecked Tower of the Brooklyn Bridge Meanwhile in real life in that same area they appear to be in happens to have the Watchtower Building. The word "Watchtower" is part of the title of a Bob Dylan song in which four Cylons heard in their heads. Is it true for a fact? I don't know, but there is evidence for it and it would be a HUGE coincidence. Oh, I almost forgot: There is also the the fact that a off-shoot branch of the Jehovah's Witnesses has the word "Dawn" in its name and there is supposed to be a Temple called the Temple of Aurora for the The Goddess of Dawn? Hey, it could be all wrong, but at least I have evidence for it. To be clear I am not saying that RDM is bearing direct comparison to the Colonial situation but I think he using the JW as clues of some kind.[[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 08:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:I agree that the Watchtower connection could be notable, but the Dawn connection is going too far in my opinion. Thoughts? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 10:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
::Agreed. Also it's just too verbose for not adding much at all. At least it should be cut down. It's a tenuous connection to begin with and there is no reason to extrapolate so much from it. Just noting the fact should be fine. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:::I agree with the cut down, however I don't agree that it is tenuous. This show is heavy with religion and deliberately so. I am NOT saying that RDM has a specific religious agenda, Jehovah's Witnesses or otherwise, he is a lapsed Catholic who is into the Eastern Asian Faiths, but it is hard to believe that the "Watchtower" building in real life being where the landing party is is a coincidence. It is meant as clue that it is ''really'' New York. I, as a New Yorker born, raised and lived my entire life take it as a HUGE slap-in-the-face-hint. [http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_1.html Anyway, here is a link to an interview on his use of religion in his version of BSG and the Mormon influences of the original.]The Watchtower building, where it is and Bob Dyan's song thing was NO accident or coincidence. And I don't think the Dawn thing between the Greek Goddess and the Jehovah's Witnesses faction is either although I admit there is much less objective evidence for it. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 04:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::It's clearly supposed to be in the same place as New York, but the timeframe of the series has not yet been established. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::My 2 cents is that, unless we see further JW links, this is probably a coincidence. It may be of note to say what currently stands on the bank where the crew are though. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 09:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Like I said earlier, the Watchtower note is not disputed. Regardless of whether it's deliberate, it deserves to be noted on this page. The JW/Aurora connection is much weaker, and I agree with OTW that unless more references to the Jehova's Witnesses pop up, it's too weak to be noted. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 10:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::To be clear again, I am not saying there is an actual JW/Cylon connection or RDM having an agenda. I think it is a clue as to where they are in New York if they are in New York. In a show that is heavily religously themed; to have a Bob Dyan Song with the word "Watchtower" in it and then show the Landing Party what could be an area around the East Tower of the Brooklyn Bridge which happens to be in the area where the Religous sect owned Watchtower building is in real life is VERY suspicious to me as a New Yorker, as to show that it is New York City. If it is a coincidence it is a '''''HUGE''''' one, a struck-by-lighting-three-days-in-a-row type of coincidence. 10:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I don't see a real connection aside from the name of our buildings; based on what I know of BG's religious inspiration, and comparing them to our beliefs, I think I can safely say that this is a surprisingly coincidence . That said, here is a footnote from our of our publications in regards to the origin of the name: The expression "Watch Tower" is no unique to Russell's writings or to Jehovah's Witnesses. George Storrs published a book in the 1850s called The Watch Tower: Or, Man in Death; and the Hope for a Future Life. The name was also incorporated in the title of various religious periodicals. It stems from the idea of keeping on the watch for the outworking of God's purposes - Isa 21:8,11,12; Ezek 3:17; Hab 2:1 - Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, page 48. Take that as you will. As for me, I may just stop by here every once in a while and giggle. :D -- [[User:Ibmjones|Ibmjones]]
::Note that if it's the Brooklyn bridge, it is an error because it has metal rods sticking out of it. Leaving aside the fact they should be r usted after so long, the Brooklyn bridge was built before reinforced concrete was used in the USA. The one to the right could be the Manhattan bridge, which was built later.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 02:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Who says they are reinforcing rods? The whole thing is black as if it is in shadow. You cannot tell details like that. I doubt from a dramatic point of view that they will use the [[W:Manhattan Bridge|Manhattan Bridge]] Who the hell knows about the Manhattan Bridge except New Yorkers like me who took the "D" and "N" subway trains over it LOL! The Brooklyn Bridge is iconic. Anyway it is undoubtedly a bridge. RDM says so in his podcast of ''Revelations.'' It contains a lot of oblique answers to questions. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 08:49, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pardon? ==

I don't recall any pardon Lee Adama issued, and I couldn't find the word "pardon" in his article or in the episode guides for the episodes in which he was President. Am I missing something?
*It is not mentioned whether or not Lee Adama's pardon means the Final Four Cylons will, or can, remain in the Colonial military in crucial positions.
--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 18:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:He gives them an "amnesty" - "free to go, free to stay". It's right after he announces that he hands all the information over to the Cylon rebels, when they stand around Starbuck's Viper. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
::Right, now I remember. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 19:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The question of the pardon, and whether it extended to Caprica-Six, is answered here: http://www.comicmix.com/news/2008/06/18/battlestar-galactica-interview-mark-verheiden-on-cylon-amnesty-and-finding-earth/?cid=9445 -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

== Starbuck's expression ==

I just re-watched the last scene, I'm fairly sure that Kara's smirking, she's the only one in the scene who doesn't seem disappointed. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:45, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
: Neither does Tyrol, apparently. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 23:00, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

::Tyrol is clearly chuckling to himself; Starbuck to me looks like she has her mouth pursed as part of an overall expression of concern.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
::: I don't think he was "chuckling" to himself out of humor, but in a cynical "of course it would turn out this way..." attitude. Rueful, just like when he was taken to the launch tube and he looks at Tigh and smiled because he '''knew''' Tigh gave them up. He smiled at Anders in a similar fashion because he knew that Tigh gave them up even then. On Earth Tyrol just had a non committal attitude because he is already cynical as hell probably thinking of the absurdity of the situation. Starbuck had somewhat the same attitude especially with the "harbinger of death" prophecy ringing in her head. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 09:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

== Goof ==

In the scene in CIC where Felix gets up to retrieve the pills he knocked over, you can briefly see the shadow of his 'missing' leg and foot (tucked up behind him) cast on the floor just between him and his chair. . . oops! [[User:Centurion 51773|Centurion 51773]] 09:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
: Yep, big oops. Or is it a shadow from his [[Virtual beings|Virtual Leg]]? :P -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 10:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah. Gaeta's leg is definitely the final Cylon. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:26, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, other than Baltar's Baltar, nobody else has a virtual ''self'', so I think it's more likely that Gaeta has a virtual ''Tigh's'' leg. . . (Actually an eye disguised as a leg. Cylon projection. Wink wink nudge nudge.) :D [[User:Centurion 51773|Centurion 51773]] 14:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
----
::I believe that's already mentioned on our [[Continuity errors (RDM)#VFX Gaffes|continuity errors page]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 10:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
:::So it is. Hadn't seen it. Here I thought I was being clever. Frak! ;D[[User:Centurion 51773|Centurion 51773]] 13:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Revelations/Archive2

2008-07-07T13:08:16Z

Centurion 51773:

A "Lt. Gonzo Pike" is also listed on the [[:Image:GoBetween260607.jpg|casting sheet]] for "[[The Ties That Bind]]" for what it's worth. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:01, 18 November 2007 (CST)

The convention report attributes the forest scenes to episode '''11'''. Since other reports state that they have shut down after episode 13, this like means that they are the same by episode numbers. "Revelations" is episode 10 however! --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:57, 20 November 2007 (CST)
: Here's the thing though... is Katee counting "Razor" as one episode? If so, then that makes "Revelations" episode 11, by her count. Also, about 4.13... it seems that there are only 10 episodes "in the can", as far as I can determine. Also, production numbers can be taken out of order; it's happened before to series such as ''Babylon 5'' and even the original BSG. So, 4.13... Is ''that'' episode 11, or is that part of episode 10, which may be extended? Plus we have two missing episodes that are unaccounted for, 4.07 and 4.09.
: To be honest, it's a bit confusing. LOL -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 09:55, 21 November 2007 (CST)
::Right. Counting "Razor" as one episode makes this correct again. That's probably the case. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:36, 21 November 2007 (CST)

== 4.0 finale? ==

Is this the finale to the first half of the season? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

:I'd venture a "yes". Not only is the episode #10 out of 20 (excluding "Razor"), but the SciFi Channel doesn't list it either on the site in general or on their schedule. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

:It's the mid-season cliffhanger... Should add that to the notes. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== Advance screening ==

Since the episode apparently has an [http://syfyportal.com/news425104.html advance screening] tomorrow, maybe we should lock the article. I vaguely I recall that a similar screening resulted in the episode summary or analysis to be written. That's not so bad, but we have no way to verify the stuff. Plus, I don't think we should spoil it for everyone just because a handful of people have seen the episode already. It's probably not that likely that there will be massive edits, but taking precautions doesn't hurt. Someone might also read spoilers somewhere else and try to add them here. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
: I believe you are referring to "Razor". And, well, despite the advanced screening any content from it is still considered a [[BW:SP|spoiler]], since it hasn't made a nation-wide airing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah yes, Razor. That was just an internet leak though and we could easily obtain a copy as well. That's not the case with a theater screening. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, if you recall, it was also screened in certain markets about a week before the air date. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== Location on earth ==

To me the location on earth looked a bit like the ruins of Ellis Island with New York City in the backround. Am I way off? --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 10:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It's Brooklyn. [http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/913/bsgbrooklynbridgeyx0.jpg Check it out].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 11:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You are right. I didn't think that was a bridge, just a girder. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 12:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

== 5th Cylon ==

<blockquote>“Is Number Three honest in her claim that there are only four of the Final Five in the Fleet? If so, where is the fifth and last Cylon? If she's lying, is it because she still harbors distrust for her compatriots and the humans?”</blockquote>

Perhaps the 5th is already on the Basestar? [[User:Nerull|Nerull]] 13:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Were there any other major characters except Baltar and Roslin? Roslin is pretty much ruled out by the joke Five made. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 13:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
: Karl Agathon was still on the baseship, but he's human, as far as we know. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

:Yes, this is weird. Are there any major characters anywhere else? I mean, there are three Cylon models + Boomer in the Cylon fleet but they're not exactly good candidates. Did we leave someone behind somewhere? Surely, the final Cylon isn't dead. It has to be a major character. I guess it has to be one of Helo/Roslin/Baltar. I think that Roslin would be the most likely of those. The 3's question could have been meant in earnest. [[User:Haukurth|Haukurth]] 15:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm stretching this, but the five are supposed to find the way to earth. Chief, Sam and Tigh find the Viper (this could also make Starbuck a Cylon) and Roslin gives the final go for jump. There is a problem with Tory, she does nothing. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 14:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

: Tory can't do anything because the call summons her to ''Galactica'', where Starbuck's Viper is. Obviously, she's disconnected from the rest of the Four, so she has the adverse reaction. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

What about Hera? D'anna was only "interested" in the four, and that way opened the door for another less important (for now) cylon......

My thoughts were, D'anna says four are in the fleet. She also freaks out and apologizes to what is presumably the fifth cylon in her vision in a way that suggests it's personal. What if the fifth cylon is someone in the fleet who was killed either by her or the cylons as a group that she then recognized? Any people who were previously killed off by D'anna or the cylons in general that could fill that slot? I wanted to say Ellen Tigh, but Baltar did the test on her and if she'd come up positive he wouldn't be wondering who the fifth is like everyone else. --[[User:Ssiixx|Ssiixx]] 23:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Though this would be an anti climax I assume that the fifth final five is none of the caracters we already now. I think he is located on earth, maybe waiting in some bunker or whatever. He could also be on his own ship, not too far away from the cylons and humans, watching.
Since there is a lot more to explain about the time that passed from the end of the cylon war to their reappearing, I assume that the last cylon is also the link between the twelve human cylon models and the rest of the cylon race. Even if he IS the rest. [[User:Lincore|Lincore]] 02:03, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

:From a narrative perspective, it is improbable that D'Anna was being absurdly literal, excluding a character who happened to be on the basestar at the moment she said "There are four in your fleet." Since her goal was to get the final five to the basestar, it would make little sense for her to ignore one that was already there.
:I think the living human characters are fairly effectively ruled out, but that doesn't necessarily entail an anti-climactic revelation to come. On the contrary, revealing Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Roslin, or Baltar to be a Cylon is exactly what is expected, and this is a show which is built on defying expectations. What is needed to create a suitable climax for the series as a whole is not simply a revelation of the sort, "____ was a Cylon all along!" Instead, it needs to be a revelation that lays bare the show's mythology, that explains what happened three thousand years ago and why all of this seems to have been manipulated into occurring today. To fulfill that function a non-central character that played a crucial role in the past actually works better.
:Of course, it could all be foilers, and it could just be Roslin.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 19:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

== Earth - Speculation ==

Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, according to the hybrid. She is also the only character we know has been to Earth. What if she triggered a series of events that led to the destruction of the 13th tribe? She probably isn't the 5th, but she's something else. I think she's playing the character of Krishna for those of you who've read Bhagavad Gita, but at the same time her connections to the arrow of Apollo make me think she might be Arjuna. In either case, her counterpart would be the 5th.

What is hard to explain is her viper. How does it explode visibly and then come back in mint condition in the nebula? Vipers don't have FTL either, so everything seems weird.

* International Space Station and satellites probably wouldn't be affected by nuclear war
* They can't all be dead - there's got to be somebody alive from the 13th tribe.
* New York, sure, but who would waste a nuke on New Jersey? (*grin*)

--[[User:Smari|Smari]] 14:45, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

ISS and other spacecraft in low-earth orbit will see their orbits decay within a decade (or even less) due to atmospheric drag without periodic reboosts (the demise of Skylab in 1979 is a perfect example of this). Even satellites in pretty high Earth orbit will fall back to Earth within a few hundred years - assuming that a significantly long time has elapsed since whatever happened on Earth, the only stuff left in orbit will be stuff out at the Clarke (geosynchronous) orbit.

--[[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 15:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but not much time has passed in the fleet, yet the plants growing on the ruins suggest the event was a long time ago. However, there was a time discrepancy associated with Kara's previous visit.

--[[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 16:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The article states that "[...] the series is set in the future and not the past [...]." This is not necessarily true. That - what was his name again - hybrid in razor said, that this happens "again, again, again...", so I came to the conclusion, that this might as well be our past. Maybe next time, it goes the other way round and people are escaping from earth after it was nuked by cylons or - whatever is next in line - and the human race is looking for an ancient world called... caprica for instance. This would make the Galactica Noah's Ark. Just my two cents... [[User:Lincore|Lincore]] 01:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Locating Earth based on just a bearing ==

There's a comment made in the main article stating that making a precision jump based solely on a bearing seems unlikely. It doesn't seem to me like this would necessarily be the case. Based on the bearing, Galactica should be able to scan in that direction, looking for solar systems. From there, they could scan for inhabitable planets. Assuming they truly are in our solar system, that narrows it down to one planet. We know that Colonial FTLs are capable of some extremely precise jumps, so jumping into orbit doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

The part that seems unlikely to me is that the fleet has been haphazardly stumbling around all this time jumping from point to point, several hundred jumps from the 12 Colonies. Now the Fleet is within jump range of Earth, without even knowing exactly where they were going.

--[[User:Scionic|Scionic]] 16:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think the Fleet jumped from their position to Earth in one jump. Getting to Earth probably took many jumps, which is what Lee meant when he said his course would have to be corrected as they went. The writers just skipped all these intermediate jumps and cut straight ahead to the final one. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 22:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::Even given that, it would be more believable to jump somewhere into the solar system rather than directly into orbit on the final jump. That's really just dramatic license. However, as said above, it makes sense that they would use astronomical readings to determine the location of star systems in the direction. But, it wouldn't be the usual generic, faster-than-light sci-fi scans. BSG's stellar navigation is mostly more in line with real astronomy, i.e. using passive readings -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:::In watching the episode again, it looks like they very well might be inside the Sol System for their final jump, presumably to save time/fuel instead of slogging their away across the system at sublight. The last establishing shot of the fleet before the final jump shows a yellow star, fairly close. This is presumably our Sun. Plus, I have to say I disagree on the method of stellar navigation. For general in-system navigation and plotting, passive systems would make sense, but for FTL jumps (which have been indicated to be many light-years long), sci-fi faster-than-light scans would almost be necessary. Otherwise they'd be jumping into a region of space based on a scan that is many months or even years old. It would be like mounting an FTL drive on my car, and jumping into the middle of a busy freeway based on a picture I took a couple weeks ago - I could very well jump into the middle of another car, jump into a location that no longer exists, etc. --[[User:Scionic|Scionic]] 06:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Better sure, but such magical technology simply doesn't exist. And all serious works of sci-fi deal a bit with the lightspeed information lag. True, BSG makes jumps next to planetary bodies and especially ships way too easy sometimes, but now and then, it's also pointed out how dangerous such jumps are. And that whole thing is the reason behind the term [[Red Line]]. A limit behind which jumps can't be plotted (e.g. stellar movement extrapolated from known data) accurately enough to have a certain margin of error. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::The Universe is a very big and empty place... Using normal tools they indeed see outdated images, the way things were months maybe years before... But the movement of stars and planets can be easily observed and predicted accurately enough to jump in space and not inside a star or planet. Remember, they don't have to jump directly into orbit around Earth, probably not even in the solar system, just close enough to get a closer look and get more accurate coordinates... -- [[User:Evilforce|Evilforce]] 11:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::I'm not just talking about the episode specifically, but the series in general. For planets that surely works. That's what I meant above. But they also jump extremely close to ships without problems. And their movement couldn't be predicted. That part is unrealistic. But never mind; it's pretty pointless to discuss this at such length. We kinda agree anyways :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::About jumping close to ships: I've got a little theory about that which I brought up in some long forgotten thread at Battlestar Forum: distance between ships is preserved through a jump. By this, I mean that the distance between e.g. ''Galactica'' and ''Colonial One'' after the jump will be equal to the one before it, because they made the exact same jump. For the same reason, you should be able to jump close to or even in the middle of the Fleet, provided you jumped away from that same spot. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Is it Earth at all? ==
Is the planet actually Earth? No recognisable land masses are visible from orbit, unlike in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]". The ruins look vaguely like Brooklyn and the Temple of Aurora, but it's inconclusive. The only thing conclusive is the star patterns match. Perhaps this is another pointer along the way. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 16:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:The scriptures say the dying leader wasn't supposed to survive to see their new home, although that's making two assumptions - that the dying leader is Roslin and the new home is the planet. --[[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 23:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::"Inductive reasoning is the death of philosophy". You can never prove anything definitively based on observed evidence, but I'd be willing to bet my house (if I owned one) on that being Earth. Aside from the many, many on-screen things, it would be a huge slap in the face to viewers if this was just [[Terra]] or something. Consider that the writers have set up this exquisite concept that in the near future civilisation is destroyed, only for it to be revealed that this is just some arbitrary planet. (Plus a few spoilers for episodes ahead do say this is Earth). Sometimes a spade is just a desolute, lifeless and radioactive spade. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 23:43, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:::The discussion about the lack of recognisable land masses made me realise something - there's no sign of the Moon. I thing the writers have been very clever hiding any definitive traces that this is indeed Earth - there are after all 3 other Sun-like stars nearby to us, and the Fleet may be elsewhere. If we saw a recognisable land form or Luna herself, there would be no doubt - but an interesting door has been left open, I think. [[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 13:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::It's curious, but the destroyed city is clearly New York. And you don't necessarily see the moon even in a wide shot of space. That depends on the direction of the view. Besides, there are only 10 episodes left. There isn't really much point in such an elaborate deception when there are other story and character arcs to tie up. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:58, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::Maybe it's clearly NYC to you, but only vaguely to me. But there's also the possibility they added so much cloud to keep the condition of the surface hidden until the revealing moment, and to have enough debris in the atmosphere for consistency with a nuclear winter. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 11:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::We won't resolve this one until the rest of the season. Starbuck made a big deal about the moon, photographed it, oddly called it a "yellow moon" and said that was a key clue from Pythia. We don't yet know why the moon would be yellow, but we can be pretty sure if the moon from Starbuck's photos and Pythia's legend were not there, they would have noticed it. "Uh, hey, where's the giant moon?" It's the yellow part that is interesting.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 02:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

== The possible finale? ==
Back before the season started and during the Writer's Strike, Sackhoff made a comment that the last episode they'd filmed might have acted as a series finale if the strike had gone on long enough that they couldn't return to work. Now, according to the Wiki, it's the next episode that she was referring to, but I was wondering how sure we were of that. There seems to have been a lot of confusion about which episodes production people are talking about. And I feel, after watching Revelations, that it seems like a likely candidate for the episode she was talking about. Thoughts? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:I think we're pretty much certain. Sometimes a Great Notion was the last episode written before the strike and the last episode filmed before the break, and the scenes mentioned [http://roadrunnerdm.livejournal.com/84288.html here] take place after the end of Revelations. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Far fetched Jehovah's Witnesses connection? ==

To summarize: The Landing party appears to be on a plot of land that is very reminiscent of Brooklyn Heights looking out over to a land mass that has a similar topography of Manhattan Island with a structure to the extreme right that looks vaguely like a wrecked Tower of the Brooklyn Bridge Meanwhile in real life in that same area they appear to be in happens to have the Watchtower Building. The word "Watchtower" is part of the title of a Bob Dylan song in which four Cylons heard in their heads. Is it true for a fact? I don't know, but there is evidence for it and it would be a HUGE coincidence. Oh, I almost forgot: There is also the the fact that a off-shoot branch of the Jehovah's Witnesses has the word "Dawn" in its name and there is supposed to be a Temple called the Temple of Aurora for the The Goddess of Dawn? Hey, it could be all wrong, but at least I have evidence for it. To be clear I am not saying that RDM is bearing direct comparison to the Colonial situation but I think he using the JW as clues of some kind.[[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 08:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:I agree that the Watchtower connection could be notable, but the Dawn connection is going too far in my opinion. Thoughts? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 10:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
::Agreed. Also it's just too verbose for not adding much at all. At least it should be cut down. It's a tenuous connection to begin with and there is no reason to extrapolate so much from it. Just noting the fact should be fine. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:::I agree with the cut down, however I don't agree that it is tenuous. This show is heavy with religion and deliberately so. I am NOT saying that RDM has a specific religious agenda, Jehovah's Witnesses or otherwise, he is a lapsed Catholic who is into the Eastern Asian Faiths, but it is hard to believe that the "Watchtower" building in real life being where the landing party is is a coincidence. It is meant as clue that it is ''really'' New York. I, as a New Yorker born, raised and lived my entire life take it as a HUGE slap-in-the-face-hint. [http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16650_1.html Anyway, here is a link to an interview on his use of religion in his version of BSG and the Mormon influences of the original.]The Watchtower building, where it is and Bob Dyan's song thing was NO accident or coincidence. And I don't think the Dawn thing between the Greek Goddess and the Jehovah's Witnesses faction is either although I admit there is much less objective evidence for it. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 04:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::It's clearly supposed to be in the same place as New York, but the timeframe of the series has not yet been established. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::My 2 cents is that, unless we see further JW links, this is probably a coincidence. It may be of note to say what currently stands on the bank where the crew are though. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 09:41, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Like I said earlier, the Watchtower note is not disputed. Regardless of whether it's deliberate, it deserves to be noted on this page. The JW/Aurora connection is much weaker, and I agree with OTW that unless more references to the Jehova's Witnesses pop up, it's too weak to be noted. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 10:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::To be clear again, I am not saying there is an actual JW/Cylon connection or RDM having an agenda. I think it is a clue as to where they are in New York if they are in New York. In a show that is heavily religously themed; to have a Bob Dyan Song with the word "Watchtower" in it and then show the Landing Party what could be an area around the East Tower of the Brooklyn Bridge which happens to be in the area where the Religous sect owned Watchtower building is in real life is VERY suspicious to me as a New Yorker, as to show that it is New York City. If it is a coincidence it is a '''''HUGE''''' one, a struck-by-lighting-three-days-in-a-row type of coincidence. 10:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I don't see a real connection aside from the name of our buildings; based on what I know of BG's religious inspiration, and comparing them to our beliefs, I think I can safely say that this is a surprisingly coincidence . That said, here is a footnote from our of our publications in regards to the origin of the name: The expression "Watch Tower" is no unique to Russell's writings or to Jehovah's Witnesses. George Storrs published a book in the 1850s called The Watch Tower: Or, Man in Death; and the Hope for a Future Life. The name was also incorporated in the title of various religious periodicals. It stems from the idea of keeping on the watch for the outworking of God's purposes - Isa 21:8,11,12; Ezek 3:17; Hab 2:1 - Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, page 48. Take that as you will. As for me, I may just stop by here every once in a while and giggle. :D -- [[User:Ibmjones|Ibmjones]]
::Note that if it's the Brooklyn bridge, it is an error because it has metal rods sticking out of it. Leaving aside the fact they should be r usted after so long, the Brooklyn bridge was built before reinforced concrete was used in the USA. The one to the right could be the Manhattan bridge, which was built later.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 02:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Who says they are reinforcing rods? The whole thing is black as if it is in shadow. You cannot tell details like that. I doubt from a dramatic point of view that they will use the [[W:Manhattan Bridge|Manhattan Bridge]] Who the hell knows about the Manhattan Bridge except New Yorkers like me who took the "D" and "N" subway trains over it LOL! The Brooklyn Bridge is iconic. Anyway it is undoubtedly a bridge. RDM says so in his podcast of ''Revelations.'' It contains a lot of oblique answers to questions. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 08:49, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

== Pardon? ==

I don't recall any pardon Lee Adama issued, and I couldn't find the word "pardon" in his article or in the episode guides for the episodes in which he was President. Am I missing something?
*It is not mentioned whether or not Lee Adama's pardon means the Final Four Cylons will, or can, remain in the Colonial military in crucial positions.
--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 18:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:He gives them an "amnesty" - "free to go, free to stay". It's right after he announces that he hands all the information over to the Cylon rebels, when they stand around Starbuck's Viper. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
::Right, now I remember. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 19:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The question of the pardon, and whether it extended to Caprica-Six, is answered here: http://www.comicmix.com/news/2008/06/18/battlestar-galactica-interview-mark-verheiden-on-cylon-amnesty-and-finding-earth/?cid=9445 -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

== Starbuck's expression ==

I just re-watched the last scene, I'm fairly sure that Kara's smirking, she's the only one in the scene who doesn't seem disappointed. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:45, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
: Neither does Tyrol, apparently. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 23:00, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

::Tyrol is clearly chuckling to himself; Starbuck to me looks like she has her mouth pursed as part of an overall expression of concern.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
::: I don't think he was "chuckling" to himself out of humor, but in a cynical "of course it would turn out this way..." attitude. Rueful, just like when he was taken to the launch tube and he looks at Tigh and smiled because he '''knew''' Tigh gave them up. He smiled at Anders in a similar fashion because he knew that Tigh gave them up even then. On Earth Tyrol just had a non committal attitude because he is already cynical as hell probably thinking of the absurdity of the situation. Starbuck had somewhat the same attitude especially with the "harbinger of death" prophecy ringing in her head. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 09:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

== Goof ==

In the scene in CIC where Felix gets up to retrieve the pills he knocked over, you can briefly see the shadow of his 'missing' leg and foot (tucked up behind him) cast on the floor just between him and his chair. . . oops! [[User:Centurion 51773|Centurion 51773]] 09:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
: Yep, big oops. Or is it a shadow from his [[Virtual beings|Virtual Leg]]? :P -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 10:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
::I believe that's already mentioned on our [[Continuity errors (RDM)#VFX Gaffes|continuity errors page]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 10:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
:::So it is. Hadn't seen it. [[User:Centurion 51773|Centurion 51773]] 13:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

User:Centurion 51773

2008-07-07T10:02:29Z

Centurion 51773: New page: rightWhat can I say? It's a classic design! Not that I hate the new ones; they're pretty cool, but I just love the classic toaster. . .

[[Image:Cent 005.jpg|right]]What can I say? It's a classic design! Not that I hate the new ones; they're pretty cool, but I just love the classic toaster. . .

Talk:Revelations/Archive2

2008-07-07T09:37:22Z

Centurion 51773: /* Goof */ new section

Talk:Substances in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2008-07-07T09:28:08Z

Centurion 51773: query/comment

This article comprises the topics on various elements and their nature from a past larger article version of [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]], broken out for later expansion and page size considerations. It also links to other RDM substances and their separate articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:09, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
==Another Tylium question==
Since no reference has been made to any ''other'' substances being "tanked" aboard the assorted spacecraft, Tylium ''must'' be both fuel and oxidiser for it to combust in space. At least, it sure ''looks'' like something's being burnt and spewed out the tailpipes. . . [[User:Centurion 51773|Centurion 51773]] 09:28, 7 July 2008 (UTC)