Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Number Eight/Archive 1

2009-02-07T22:28:39Z

Centurion: /* Athena 2.0 */ new section

== Was Sharon a real person, once? ==

Caprica Boomer notes that humano-Cylons are not wired into each other's brains, so they don't share knowledge directly. However, she was aware of events in the fleet, which means some level of data from Galactica Boomer was received. She also recollects to Starbuck on the first time they met in the Delphi Museum. Could the Sharon that Starbuck knew was a real human, her consciousness cloned into a series of Cylon copies? Food for thought. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:52, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

No. Baltar's Cylon detector showed that she physically was not not a human (I forget how exactly the detector works; something like the artificial, silicon based cells of humanoid Cylons can't hold up to radiation to well and after prolonged exposure degenerate a little). They still have to explain to us the exact nature of the humanoid Cylons, but it is apparent that they aren't fully biological creatures: I think they're made of synthetic chemicals bases (silicon, etc) and they have Silica Relays running through their body; I mean they can transmit their consciousness and thoughts over vast distances just using whatever's in their brain.
Are *ANY* of the humanoid Cylons based on real people? We don't know. But the Galactica-Boomer was definately not an original. -- Ricimer, 11 Sept, 2005.

: I'm betting that Gaius was real -- [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|once]]. :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:45, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

::RDM said in that interview from thefandom.com that "there was never an original 'Sharon Valerii'" so I think that settles it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:04, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:::It has indeed, and the Twelve Models page is now moot. Answer moved to main Humano-Cylon page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]

== Keeping Track of the Valeriis ==

I recommend that we use "Boomer" as the name of the now-dead Galactica copy we first encounter in the mini-series in the article as applicable. The Caprica version can be "Sharon Valerii" or "Valerii" provided that the context where the copy is found is made clear in that part of the article. Remember that Galactica's crew doesn't see the Caprica copy as "Boomer" and we shouldn't call her as such. I've also broken up the text here to make reading and information easier to find. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:20, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

:Problematic. Although only the Galactica copy is properly "Boomer", both of them are Sharon Valerii. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

::That it is. But it is worse to use "Boomer" for all of the copies, and since it may be a cold day in hell before Adama allows any Valerii copy to fly again in the service of the Colonials, using the callsign is inappropriate as "Boomer" is dead. Hopefully we won't find any more Valeriis to disambiguate. I'm trying to treat things as we did the Ellen Tigh/Saul Tigh matter. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:43, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

:::I think we should probably refer to the one currently on Caprica with Caprica Six as Boomer Reloaded and the one on Galactica as Sharon. Boomer Reloaded would probably be more comfortable with the callsign than the non-pilot copy.--[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 02:26, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Is there a list of possible Images or something like that? How do you find the one you're looking for?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 08:29, 5 March 2006 (EST)

: Check out the [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images|Island of Misfit Images]], first off. Then you just have to hunt around. Kind of depends on what you're looking for. --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:45, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::The Eight at the beginning of Downloaded.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:51, 5 March 2006 (EST)

:::: Probably someone will have to get a screen cap of her, then, since it's a more recent episode there are less likely to be just tons of pics from it. You might put a note up at [[Battlestar Wiki:Requested Images]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:52, 5 March 2006 (CST)

Keeping track of the Valeriis may be easier in the future if recent spoilers are true. One would be Sharon Valerii and the other Sharon Valerii Agathon. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:30, 4 September 2006 (CDT)

=== Disambig? ===

Actually, how about creating an article for each of the two major Valerii's -- [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]], for instance -- and using [[Sharon Valerii]] as a disambig/information page for the Valerii model line? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:05, 6 November 2005 (EST)

*I am unsure that that would be the best option. Perhaps by the end of season 3 we might make that choice, but that's 30 episodes from now. Right now, I just think they should be under one article, though it is a valid point. --->On top of this, we keep calling them "Galactica-Boomer" and "Caprica-Boomer". Someone then pointed out that we shouldn't call "Caprica-Boomer" 'Boomer' because it's a military callsign and she was never ''really'' in the military. However, I feel that originally this was a wise choice because Helo ''thought'' she was "Boomer" as she was ''posing'' as Galactica-Boomer. Also, we need to check if anyone calls her "Boomer" anymore after she is brought to ''Galactica''. Anyway, I approve of the prevailing tendency to refer to her post-"Home" as "Caprica-Sharon"--->Regardless, we have indeed encountered a problem now that we have this information from RDM: "Caprica-Sharon" is now on ''Galactica'', and "Galactica-Sharon" is now going to wake up in a new body on or near Caprica. We '''cannot''' refer to them as "Boomer 1" and her counterpart "Boomer 2" because that would imply that "Galactica-Boomer is the "original", and she is not; RDM said there is ''no'' "original", and "Caprica-Sharon" has equal claim to this. Perhaps we could use "Boomer 1" and "Boomer A"--->no, wait, that would be only more confusing. In addition to this, there are also other 'generic' "evil" standard-Cylon Sharons, like the one introduced at the end of "Final Cut". Maybe we could use the less-often prefered nomenclature: "Tyrol-Boomer" for Chief Tyrol's Boomer (Galactica-Boomer) and "Helo-Boomer" for the one that got impregnated by Helo ("Caprica-Boomer"). Of course, there is always the possibility of some crazy soap-opera love triangle and Tyrol falling for Caprica-Boomer because he thinks Galactica-Boomer is dead only to find that Galactica-Boomer has become the new Caprica-Boomer leading to a tense standoff with the standard Caprica-Six who is taking orders from Baltar-Six the angel of God who is in turn having a love triangle with Pegasus-Six a.k.a. Gina who will be supplied with a nuclear weapon and Raptor by Galactica-Jammer which will be preceded by Cally-Selix being outed by Galactica-D'Anna when in fact she is not a Cylon throwing blame off of Galactica-D'Anna even as Caprica-D'Anna is trying to indoctrinate Galactica-Caprica-Galactica Boomer into the Cylon religion only to be saved by Anders but not before being impregnated with Starbuck's missing egg cells. This could take a while. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:53, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:Wow. Wow. Wow. WOW. Ricimer. Good LORD, man. There is some part loose in your head and I like it. Wow. Anyway, I actually kind of like the idea of sing Tyrol-Sharon (or, more properly, Tyrol-Valerii?) and Helo-Sharon (Agathon-Valerii? Ouch.). That's a bit odd, perhaps, to those of us who've been watching from the start, but what if someone missed the parts where Caprica-Sharon was on Caprica and so only know of this one that, as far as they know, has always been on ''Galactica''--and why the hell don't these wiki-morons get their facts straight about Galactica-Boomer and her pregnancy and all? ;) Or maybe we should call the one of them Preggers-Boomer or Mama-Boomer or something and the other, uh... Dead-Boomer or Sleeper-Boomer. Or maybe not. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:05, 17 December 2005 (EST)

::I don't. Galactica-Valerii and Caprica-Valerii are still unambiguous, and with "Downloaded" indefinitely shelved, it appears they will remain that way. I find identifying them by their S.O.'s tasteless and no less confusing than our current system. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:50, 17 December 2005 (EST)

*I think we should go with Joes idea and split the article with the Galactica/Caprica convention (though I have no problem with the Helo/Tyrol one either). If at some point in the series it becomes clear that a different convention makes more sense, we could change it then. Else we could be waiting a long time with one massive, confusing Valerii article (its only going to get bigger after all).--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 21:43, 28 December 2005 (EST)

====The Best Laid Plans, Sometimes Best Left Buried====

Four months, three new episodes, and [[Downloaded|a lot of Spoilers]] later, I feel that the time has come to disambiguate [[Galactica-Sharon]] and [[Caprica-Sharon]] into two separate characters pages, as Joe agreed. Obviously, following the model of the Humano-Cylon page, there will be "stubs" for Galactica and Caprica-Sharon on this page, leading to full articles (other models of Sharon, like the "The Hand of God" one, Ragnar copy, "Final Cut" copy, etc. will have their entire entry here (that is, just leave their info as is). I'll use the names "Galactica-Sharon" and "Caprica-Sharon" because those are the names which were ''not'' developed by me, but which developed ''ad hoc'' on the internet to tell the two apart (notably on Televisionwithoutpity, though I can tell you that it didn't ''start'' there, but on the messageboards for the show, etc.) Nextly, we aren't using "Caprica-Boomer", etc. because "Boomer" is a military callsign and after they found out she was a Cylon she wasn't part of their unit anymore. Come to think of it, I think they've ''never'' called her Boomer since Caprica-Sharon got to Galactica. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:14, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:I'm inclined to agree with the split, (with the caveat that the articles should be located at [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica Copy]]), along with the various Number Six identities, but I feel like I should point out one thing: None of the cylon characters have actually received more screen time than any human character. If their articles are so large and ungainly that they demand to be split, this cries out of summary and concision. We will not have this recourse with the human character articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:23, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::The two Boomers have each separetly had more development than several recurring characters; Cally, Racetrack, etc. Galactica-Boomer got about as much development as Tyrol, and Caprica-Boomer got about as much development as Helo, yet the experiences of each were unique. '''And the evidence speaks for itself'''; I mean just look at the article; quite a LARGE amount of information, for each separately, and you can see that they require no summary or concision. They've just both led...shall we say, "colorful"?...lives? That's kind of what makes "Sharon" one of the more intriguing characters. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:59, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:I would also note that this is bound to generate some discussion and require some thought beforehand. We shouldn't jump the gun until we have broad consensus. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:24, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::Truth. Yet this is a special case; it was already largely agreed that they ''should'' be separated, but it was decided to wait a while longer until they were known to be truly distinct characters (at the time, we were unaware of spoilers that Galactica-Sharon would come back and we thought she was dead for good. In light of this, I see the need as more pressing than ever). Many agreed ''already'' that this was the wiser choice. I want to get the ball rolling, let others play around with the idea to get used to it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:55, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::: I don't know that I agree with a split. I don't know that I ''disagree'' either, though. I just thought I'd post that I have some reservations. I don't have the time to look too closely at it right now, so I'll try to meditate on it and post an actual decision tonight (unless I'm too tired from work or something). --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:26, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::I'm torn on a split because of the confusion that it can create. Yet at the same time, as time goes on, ALL of the character bio pages will become too large and cumbersome. Perhaps we should apply a process similar to what we did for the Cylon (RDM) and Twelve Colonies (RDM) pages--create a parent with child subarticles.
::::*A master page on the Valerii model that summarizes the model, VERY brief links to subarticles, and notes on other models encountered (minor or in-passing encounters).
::::*A series link that gives distinct subarticles for each major Valerii encountered (All two)

::::So the [[Sharon Valerii]] page is the parent, with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Boomer)]] as subarticles. Another example, [[Number Six]] would be the parent, with [[Natasi]], [[Number Six (Virtual)]], [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]] as subarticles.

::::This idea actually works better with Six (who has had four separate significant characters). For Colonials, we will have to look into something like this as well or severely truncate their bios over time as the show progresses. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:10, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Er, that's actually what I just suggested (the first option). The second option you listed is what we already do; have subarticles about the different copies. What I want is to do what we did on the humanoid Cylon page: brief description and a link, leading off to another article about that character in detail. My key point is that not ALL of them need their own pages, i.e. copies of Number Six with a "standard" personality don't need separate pages, just keep their info on the main page. I'm not sure of Natasi-Six and ChipSix are separate characers, though they probably are. Gina definately is, as is Shelley Godrey (I'm still not sure if she was a self-aware Six, or honestly acting out fake memories).--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:40, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::::As there's been the call for a consensus, I'll put my two bits in: yes! I've been keen to see this for a while. Are we going to do the same with Conoy and Doral? (I wouldn't). As for Natasi and ChipSix, I think we should just have them in the main Number Six article, as they don't have different personalities and seperate articles would confuse. Also, I agree with Farago that the articles should be titiled like [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] and not [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica)]].--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 20:43, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::::Some final thoughts - I would not like to see Doral and Conoy's articles sectioned off either, as there really isn't enough content to justify it. The main articles should be more than disambig pages, with notes on the model as a whole, perhaps borrowed from [[Humano-Cylon]] - which I feel probably ought to be deleted soon anyway, in favor of [[Cylon Models]], along with stubs for the articles with their own pages, and full discussions for less-notable copies (such as the overseer six models, or Ragnar Valerii). I would also like to use series boxes for Valerii and Six, and categories as well (which can also be subcategories of "Characters (RDM)"). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:49, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::Farago I think you are jumping to conclusions of brobdingnagian proportions. Our pages for Conoy and Doral are ''already'' sectioned off with subheadings. No, (dragging in the debate over humanoid Cylon nomenclature) I feel that humanoid Cylons and "Cylons" are distinct. We should do what we have done before. Have a main "Cylon" page, with a separate "Humanoid Cylon" or "Cylon Agent" or whatever page, on which there are short descriptions of the known models of the 12, and links to their pages. (EXACTLY what it already done now, simply changing the *title*). I don't know what you mean by "series boxes". If I could be permitted, I'd like to do a "test" example in the future of what I envision it as, so we can all more clearly see it. Basically, I just think that the TITLE of the existing humanoid Cylon article be changed, and that Caprica-Sharon, Galactica-Sharon, and Gina get their own articles. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:28, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::: Ricimer. The comment about Conoy and Doral was regarding sectioning their articles off into different ''pages''. I felt that was perfectly clear, but you seem to'vve misunderstood bother Peter's and Undc23's comments. They were both advocating no change to how those two articles stand now. Just thought I'd sum that up. --[[User:Day|Day]] 07:06, 28 January 2006 (EST)
::::::::::Okay. Well, I also want no change to the Doral and Conoy articles as they stand now. Okay. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:59, 28 January 2006 (EST)

Done! Hope everyone's happy with the results (if not, you can always say so or adjust it yourself). I will do the same to [[Number Six]] in a day or two, unless someone beats me to it.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 22:44, 27 January 2006 (EST)
:It looks very good. Nice work, Undc.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:39, 6 February 2006 (EST)

==Ricimer's spoilers==

Ricimer, we need to link to that interview if we're going to cite it here. Is [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml this] the one? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:55, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:Yay, the very same. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:40, 6 November 2005 (EST)

== Why "Apparently 'Asian' Extraction"? ==

I glanced over a number of the human character bios (Helo, both Adamas, Starbuck, Roslin, and Dualla) and all the Humano-Cylon bios, and none of them make reference to their apparent Earth racial extractions. Why mention it for Sharon, much less put it at the top of the article? No one in the show talks about race (the closest they get to it is Colony reference, and Dualla and Zarek both being Saggitarons seems to nullify racial parallels). We're not even sure there were, or will be, any verified direct connection between the Earth races of today and Colonial humans. Unfortunately, the words "apparently 'Asian' extraction" come across more as an over-fixation on her Asian characteristics than anything else.

Could we get rid of the words? Or at least, in the interest of balance, make comparable comments in all the bios ("apparently 'Caucasian' extraction," "apparently 'African' extraction," etc.)? --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 15:35, 9 November 2005 (EST)

:You have a point and couldn't make it more clear. Comments from the rest of the peanut gallery? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 November 2005 (EST)

::I say we nix the "apparent" note, the only significant and consistent physiological notes that have been made on characters have dealt with accents (ie. Baltar), not appearance. Racial origin should be left to the cast bios, if noted at all. Colonial heritage, IMHO, is what matters to this wiki. Señor Peanut: --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 21:01, 9 November 2005 (EST)

:::I wouldn't mind getting rid of it. We have [[Race and Ethnicity in the Twelve Colonies]] to talk about this stuff. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:47, 10 November 2005 (EST)

== Rank ==
Moved to [[Talk:Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]].

== Ragnar Valerii ==
Moved to [[Talk:Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]].

== main image ==

Should we have a better image for the main one on this page?

If this article is for the Sharons in general, with other articles devoted to the two specific Sharons, should the image for the main page be the one from Kobol's Last Gleaming when Galact.-Sharon enounters the multiple Sharons?--[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 09:26, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Good idea, DrBat. I got the image for this page from the end of the miniseries when it's revealed shes a Cylon, but it didn't work as well as I hoped. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 18:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Hey, I was just thinkign that the current picture is not that good, both because it's a bit too wide and because of the quality. I was wondering if perhaps we should go with the simple portrait we used to have before. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:42, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:SharVal.jpg|thumb]]
::Yeah. This seems like a better image. Good call Sauron. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 20:58, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

:::Thanks :) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:16, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

==Number 8==
I think we should move this "hub" page for the various Sharon models to [[Number Eight]] to match [[Number Six]] and her subsidiary articles. Anyone else? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:11, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Indeed, change the name, and take Baltar Six out of "Number Six", call it "Caprica Six" since thats her name now!
--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 24 February 2006
::I agree. BTW Peter, check out the new pics I posted yesterday in Sharon's rank discussion. They're a lot clearer. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:25, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::Baltar's Six is the "angel of god" inside Baltar's head, not the one who got nuked on Caprica. We don't know quite ''what'' she is. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Miniseries==
At the end of the miniseries, when the humano-Cylons enter Ragnar, it seems that the Cylons refer to that particular Number 8 as a leader. Is that correct? [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 10:34, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:We've discussed this a bit, and basically A) She might have just been the leader of ''that specific group'' more probably B) It was just a really fun excuse to insert "By Your Command" into dialog.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:21, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:This is, in fact, already noted in the article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:02, 2 March 2006 (CST)

==The next four models==

''It would be interesting to see whether the four models created after Number Eight act more or less "human" than she.''

I don't think it's ever established that the model numbers reflect the order they were built in. I'm just curious if it was ever stated that Number Eight would predate Nine through Twelve. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 18:35, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: The method behind the numbering scheme used by the Cylons was never established. Personally, I believe that each model number corresponds to a personality type observed by the Cylons. (Basically, as RDM said, the Cylons said "oh, there's twelve of you [humans]" and made models based on that assessment.) Given this, the models could have been made in any numerical order; Number Six could have been first, while Number Eight could have been made second, and etc. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:40, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: With that said, realistically speaking, RDM and his team probably didn't come up with any numbering scheme in any specific order. After all, Number Six is a homage to ''The Prisoner''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:42, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:::What would the connection between the personality type and the number be? Why would the Cylons arbitrarily say, "This is the sixth kind of person." Doesn't it make more sense for the number to correspond to the order of "birth", especially in the light of the phrasing "There are twelve models. I'm Number Six." Even if the Cylons did label a certain personality type as the "sixth", it would then make the most sense for them to create that model sixth. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:01, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Honestly, I don't know. It's just an idea -- an idea that has no more or less weight than model numbers reflecting the order they were born (or built) in. That is ultimately my point, as well as the point Alpha's endeavoring to make as well, if I'm correct. As I mentioned, Number Six was a homage to ''The Prisoner'' and I honestly don't believe the writers came up with a definitive numbering system. Perhaps they came up with something later on during Season 1 and Season 2, though, I honestly don't know. And that's just my thought on the subject, though ultimately there's nothing for (or against) the model number order, and I honestly don't think this speculation should be included in this entry since it's baseless thus far. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 19:28, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

== Other Copies ==

The article states that
:It is possible that [the Eight seen at the end of the Miniseries] is the same individual as the Caprica copy. While, at the time the Miniseries had been filmed, there were no plans to have Tahmoh Penikett reprise the role of Helo, the ending of the Miniseries forms a link to "33", establishing that the Cylons have developed a plan for Helo's presence on Caprica.
This seems like total speculation to me and I don't quite understand how the end of the Miniseries establishs that the Cylons have developed a plan for Helo. Unless there is some kind of source for this, it should be deleted. [[User:Enemy|Enemy]] 21:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)
: Agreed. Let's remove it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 22:07, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Younger?==

I was wondering why the article refers to Sharon as the youngest model of the seven cylons we know? Is it because the actress is younger than her fellow cylon actors or because of an assumption based on her model number? If it's the former it doesn't really have anything to do with the cylon characters actual ages. If it's the latter I feel we should keep in mind that Leoben, Simon and Cavil model numbers are still unknown. They could easily be some combination of 9,10,11 or 12.

I think a slight rewording is in order. Something that indicates she APPEARS to be younger than the other cylons without actually saying she IS younger. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.
:I initially wrote that, as I was looking for attributes applying for all Eights. But you are right, it's certainly less than ideal, especially since a Cylon's outer appearance might not be related to the age of his or her consciousness at all. Feel free to change it. [[User:Sloan|Sloan]] 09:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)

==Possibly non-canon death of "Athena 2"==
Should the entry on the Eight with Athena's memories mention that she was killed by a One in a deleted scene in [[The Hub]]? In the podcast, RDM strongly implies that the deleted scene shouldn't be considered canon, however he also says that she should be presumed dead or at least out of the picture. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
:But when would this One have killed her? She returned to the Rebel Basestar. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::According to the podcast, in the deleted scene, the rebel basestar was boarded by Cylons from Cavil's faction and there was a shootout in which "Athena 2" was killed. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:33, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Yes, but that part of the story line was cut and has not been referred to again, so it's non canon. Also, "Athena 2" is out of the picture regardless, so her fate is unknown, as far as canon is concerned. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 17:54, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Some articles such as [[Number One]], [[Saul Tigh]] and [[William Adama]] reference deleted scenes, while other articles, such as this one and [[Gaius Baltar]], don't. Anyway, I've brought this up in [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Canon#Deleted scenes]]. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 05:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

==Eight's 'Rank' increased?==

I have noticed that after the start of the cylon civil war, with the reduction of "Leader-Models" number eight has certainly had to assume more authority within the rebel cylon command. With Natalie and the Sixes commanding initially, but then after Natalie's death "Athena 2" steps up and for 'The Hub' episode seems to be the sole leader of the Cylons for that period of time. Once D'anna returns the command structure returns near to how it previously was before the civil war, but when D'anna checks out the viper's signal in 'Revelations', and eight accompanies her to verify and i suspect, aid her in what decision she should make, which to me shows that the eights still remain high up in cylon command.-- [[User:Centurion|Centurion]] 08:36, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
: The Cylon command structure is really non existent. Each one of them had an equal voice, which starts wavering in Season 2's "Downloaded" and through the entire occupation and "Final Five" arc. The eights don't command, for instance, but assume more of a presence during the civil war given that there's only three models part of the rebel faction. Further, the Eight merely accompanied D'Anna, they weren't given much of a "leadership" position per se. No particular model line has assumed command, it's always been an individual who has done so. Natalie became de facto leader after a fashion, same with D'Anna as she was the one with the knowledge of the Five, and the Eight who downloaded Athena's memories from her last download. (Which opens up a whole new can of worms, considering the security risk that entails. Definitely not something well thought out there, eh? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:: Ah yes, my choice of words before could have been better. But i do think that the Six's held a higher command than the other two copies in the rebel faction as it is mentioned twice that they are slightly more senior than the others. Like when Cavil explains to the newly downloaded Cavil that "The Sixes and their Acolytes" have started killing the others, and always when the Eights try to rope in Athena to help them "lead a mutiny against the sixes". But apart from that i guess your right, maybe because Number Two never does anything! Not on basestar command or on New Caprica, lazy cylon.. And on 'Athena 2', i think in a deleted scene she was killed by Cavil who boarded the rebel basestar, and RDM says that we should either consider her dead or out of the question. -- [[User:Centurion|Centurion]] 07:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC) *EDIT* Yes, in fact its above this post, silly me.

==Gaeta's Eight==
The webisodes revealed that Gaeta had a relationship with an Eight who collaborated with him during the cylon occupation of New Caprica. Someone should certainly mention her in this article. {{unsigned|Benfea}}
:That's the beauty of a wiki! Feel free to add in that tidbit yourself! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 04:41, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
::She's referred to as "sweet Eight" in the other copies section. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 05:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
:::How about making a separate section for her? She appears in only one episode, but I think she's more notable than any of the copies aside from Boomer and Athena. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 16:39, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Athena 2.0 ==

I've been rewatching some season 4.0 episodes and am certain that the main eight that is present on the rebel baseship from Guess Whats Coming to Dinner onwards is the same eight as the Athena Copy. This is because after the eight gets shot by the Centurion and spills her blood in the Hybrids Tank, this copy takes over as representative of the Eights on the baseship. She is seen around the table with the Two and Natalie discussing the Quarum (sorry about spelling) and is later seen leading Roslin to the Hybrid with Number Two. After that, in the hub episode, she is the eight in the Hybrid Room explaining the Hybrid's Crazy behaviour and then comes up with the plan with Helo to break into the Hub. Helo says "You and Me need to get onto the Hub..".
Hopefully i didn't make any mistakes and this is all true, if its confirmed then i'll go head and write that it.

Talk:Number Eight/Archive 1

2008-09-02T07:38:20Z

Centurion: Reply to "Eight's Rank Increased?"

== Was Sharon a real person, once? ==

Caprica Boomer notes that humano-Cylons are not wired into each other's brains, so they don't share knowledge directly. However, she was aware of events in the fleet, which means some level of data from Galactica Boomer was received. She also recollects to Starbuck on the first time they met in the Delphi Museum. Could the Sharon that Starbuck knew was a real human, her consciousness cloned into a series of Cylon copies? Food for thought. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:52, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

No. Baltar's Cylon detector showed that she physically was not not a human (I forget how exactly the detector works; something like the artificial, silicon based cells of humanoid Cylons can't hold up to radiation to well and after prolonged exposure degenerate a little). They still have to explain to us the exact nature of the humanoid Cylons, but it is apparent that they aren't fully biological creatures: I think they're made of synthetic chemicals bases (silicon, etc) and they have Silica Relays running through their body; I mean they can transmit their consciousness and thoughts over vast distances just using whatever's in their brain.
Are *ANY* of the humanoid Cylons based on real people? We don't know. But the Galactica-Boomer was definately not an original. -- Ricimer, 11 Sept, 2005.

: I'm betting that Gaius was real -- [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|once]]. :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:45, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

::RDM said in that interview from thefandom.com that "there was never an original 'Sharon Valerii'" so I think that settles it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:04, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:::It has indeed, and the Twelve Models page is now moot. Answer moved to main Humano-Cylon page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]

== Keeping Track of the Valeriis ==

I recommend that we use "Boomer" as the name of the now-dead Galactica copy we first encounter in the mini-series in the article as applicable. The Caprica version can be "Sharon Valerii" or "Valerii" provided that the context where the copy is found is made clear in that part of the article. Remember that Galactica's crew doesn't see the Caprica copy as "Boomer" and we shouldn't call her as such. I've also broken up the text here to make reading and information easier to find. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:20, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

:Problematic. Although only the Galactica copy is properly "Boomer", both of them are Sharon Valerii. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

::That it is. But it is worse to use "Boomer" for all of the copies, and since it may be a cold day in hell before Adama allows any Valerii copy to fly again in the service of the Colonials, using the callsign is inappropriate as "Boomer" is dead. Hopefully we won't find any more Valeriis to disambiguate. I'm trying to treat things as we did the Ellen Tigh/Saul Tigh matter. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:43, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

:::I think we should probably refer to the one currently on Caprica with Caprica Six as Boomer Reloaded and the one on Galactica as Sharon. Boomer Reloaded would probably be more comfortable with the callsign than the non-pilot copy.--[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 02:26, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Is there a list of possible Images or something like that? How do you find the one you're looking for?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 08:29, 5 March 2006 (EST)

: Check out the [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images|Island of Misfit Images]], first off. Then you just have to hunt around. Kind of depends on what you're looking for. --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:45, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::The Eight at the beginning of Downloaded.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:51, 5 March 2006 (EST)

:::: Probably someone will have to get a screen cap of her, then, since it's a more recent episode there are less likely to be just tons of pics from it. You might put a note up at [[Battlestar Wiki:Requested Images]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:52, 5 March 2006 (CST)

Keeping track of the Valeriis may be easier in the future if recent spoilers are true. One would be Sharon Valerii and the other Sharon Valerii Agathon. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:30, 4 September 2006 (CDT)

=== Disambig? ===

Actually, how about creating an article for each of the two major Valerii's -- [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]], for instance -- and using [[Sharon Valerii]] as a disambig/information page for the Valerii model line? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:05, 6 November 2005 (EST)

*I am unsure that that would be the best option. Perhaps by the end of season 3 we might make that choice, but that's 30 episodes from now. Right now, I just think they should be under one article, though it is a valid point. --->On top of this, we keep calling them "Galactica-Boomer" and "Caprica-Boomer". Someone then pointed out that we shouldn't call "Caprica-Boomer" 'Boomer' because it's a military callsign and she was never ''really'' in the military. However, I feel that originally this was a wise choice because Helo ''thought'' she was "Boomer" as she was ''posing'' as Galactica-Boomer. Also, we need to check if anyone calls her "Boomer" anymore after she is brought to ''Galactica''. Anyway, I approve of the prevailing tendency to refer to her post-"Home" as "Caprica-Sharon"--->Regardless, we have indeed encountered a problem now that we have this information from RDM: "Caprica-Sharon" is now on ''Galactica'', and "Galactica-Sharon" is now going to wake up in a new body on or near Caprica. We '''cannot''' refer to them as "Boomer 1" and her counterpart "Boomer 2" because that would imply that "Galactica-Boomer is the "original", and she is not; RDM said there is ''no'' "original", and "Caprica-Sharon" has equal claim to this. Perhaps we could use "Boomer 1" and "Boomer A"--->no, wait, that would be only more confusing. In addition to this, there are also other 'generic' "evil" standard-Cylon Sharons, like the one introduced at the end of "Final Cut". Maybe we could use the less-often prefered nomenclature: "Tyrol-Boomer" for Chief Tyrol's Boomer (Galactica-Boomer) and "Helo-Boomer" for the one that got impregnated by Helo ("Caprica-Boomer"). Of course, there is always the possibility of some crazy soap-opera love triangle and Tyrol falling for Caprica-Boomer because he thinks Galactica-Boomer is dead only to find that Galactica-Boomer has become the new Caprica-Boomer leading to a tense standoff with the standard Caprica-Six who is taking orders from Baltar-Six the angel of God who is in turn having a love triangle with Pegasus-Six a.k.a. Gina who will be supplied with a nuclear weapon and Raptor by Galactica-Jammer which will be preceded by Cally-Selix being outed by Galactica-D'Anna when in fact she is not a Cylon throwing blame off of Galactica-D'Anna even as Caprica-D'Anna is trying to indoctrinate Galactica-Caprica-Galactica Boomer into the Cylon religion only to be saved by Anders but not before being impregnated with Starbuck's missing egg cells. This could take a while. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:53, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:Wow. Wow. Wow. WOW. Ricimer. Good LORD, man. There is some part loose in your head and I like it. Wow. Anyway, I actually kind of like the idea of sing Tyrol-Sharon (or, more properly, Tyrol-Valerii?) and Helo-Sharon (Agathon-Valerii? Ouch.). That's a bit odd, perhaps, to those of us who've been watching from the start, but what if someone missed the parts where Caprica-Sharon was on Caprica and so only know of this one that, as far as they know, has always been on ''Galactica''--and why the hell don't these wiki-morons get their facts straight about Galactica-Boomer and her pregnancy and all? ;) Or maybe we should call the one of them Preggers-Boomer or Mama-Boomer or something and the other, uh... Dead-Boomer or Sleeper-Boomer. Or maybe not. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:05, 17 December 2005 (EST)

::I don't. Galactica-Valerii and Caprica-Valerii are still unambiguous, and with "Downloaded" indefinitely shelved, it appears they will remain that way. I find identifying them by their S.O.'s tasteless and no less confusing than our current system. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:50, 17 December 2005 (EST)

*I think we should go with Joes idea and split the article with the Galactica/Caprica convention (though I have no problem with the Helo/Tyrol one either). If at some point in the series it becomes clear that a different convention makes more sense, we could change it then. Else we could be waiting a long time with one massive, confusing Valerii article (its only going to get bigger after all).--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 21:43, 28 December 2005 (EST)

====The Best Laid Plans, Sometimes Best Left Buried====

Four months, three new episodes, and [[Downloaded|a lot of Spoilers]] later, I feel that the time has come to disambiguate [[Galactica-Sharon]] and [[Caprica-Sharon]] into two separate characters pages, as Joe agreed. Obviously, following the model of the Humano-Cylon page, there will be "stubs" for Galactica and Caprica-Sharon on this page, leading to full articles (other models of Sharon, like the "The Hand of God" one, Ragnar copy, "Final Cut" copy, etc. will have their entire entry here (that is, just leave their info as is). I'll use the names "Galactica-Sharon" and "Caprica-Sharon" because those are the names which were ''not'' developed by me, but which developed ''ad hoc'' on the internet to tell the two apart (notably on Televisionwithoutpity, though I can tell you that it didn't ''start'' there, but on the messageboards for the show, etc.) Nextly, we aren't using "Caprica-Boomer", etc. because "Boomer" is a military callsign and after they found out she was a Cylon she wasn't part of their unit anymore. Come to think of it, I think they've ''never'' called her Boomer since Caprica-Sharon got to Galactica. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:14, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:I'm inclined to agree with the split, (with the caveat that the articles should be located at [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica Copy]]), along with the various Number Six identities, but I feel like I should point out one thing: None of the cylon characters have actually received more screen time than any human character. If their articles are so large and ungainly that they demand to be split, this cries out of summary and concision. We will not have this recourse with the human character articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:23, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::The two Boomers have each separetly had more development than several recurring characters; Cally, Racetrack, etc. Galactica-Boomer got about as much development as Tyrol, and Caprica-Boomer got about as much development as Helo, yet the experiences of each were unique. '''And the evidence speaks for itself'''; I mean just look at the article; quite a LARGE amount of information, for each separately, and you can see that they require no summary or concision. They've just both led...shall we say, "colorful"?...lives? That's kind of what makes "Sharon" one of the more intriguing characters. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:59, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:I would also note that this is bound to generate some discussion and require some thought beforehand. We shouldn't jump the gun until we have broad consensus. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:24, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::Truth. Yet this is a special case; it was already largely agreed that they ''should'' be separated, but it was decided to wait a while longer until they were known to be truly distinct characters (at the time, we were unaware of spoilers that Galactica-Sharon would come back and we thought she was dead for good. In light of this, I see the need as more pressing than ever). Many agreed ''already'' that this was the wiser choice. I want to get the ball rolling, let others play around with the idea to get used to it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:55, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::: I don't know that I agree with a split. I don't know that I ''disagree'' either, though. I just thought I'd post that I have some reservations. I don't have the time to look too closely at it right now, so I'll try to meditate on it and post an actual decision tonight (unless I'm too tired from work or something). --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:26, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::I'm torn on a split because of the confusion that it can create. Yet at the same time, as time goes on, ALL of the character bio pages will become too large and cumbersome. Perhaps we should apply a process similar to what we did for the Cylon (RDM) and Twelve Colonies (RDM) pages--create a parent with child subarticles.
::::*A master page on the Valerii model that summarizes the model, VERY brief links to subarticles, and notes on other models encountered (minor or in-passing encounters).
::::*A series link that gives distinct subarticles for each major Valerii encountered (All two)

::::So the [[Sharon Valerii]] page is the parent, with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Boomer)]] as subarticles. Another example, [[Number Six]] would be the parent, with [[Natasi]], [[Number Six (Virtual)]], [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]] as subarticles.

::::This idea actually works better with Six (who has had four separate significant characters). For Colonials, we will have to look into something like this as well or severely truncate their bios over time as the show progresses. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:10, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Er, that's actually what I just suggested (the first option). The second option you listed is what we already do; have subarticles about the different copies. What I want is to do what we did on the humanoid Cylon page: brief description and a link, leading off to another article about that character in detail. My key point is that not ALL of them need their own pages, i.e. copies of Number Six with a "standard" personality don't need separate pages, just keep their info on the main page. I'm not sure of Natasi-Six and ChipSix are separate characers, though they probably are. Gina definately is, as is Shelley Godrey (I'm still not sure if she was a self-aware Six, or honestly acting out fake memories).--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:40, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::::As there's been the call for a consensus, I'll put my two bits in: yes! I've been keen to see this for a while. Are we going to do the same with Conoy and Doral? (I wouldn't). As for Natasi and ChipSix, I think we should just have them in the main Number Six article, as they don't have different personalities and seperate articles would confuse. Also, I agree with Farago that the articles should be titiled like [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] and not [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica)]].--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 20:43, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::::Some final thoughts - I would not like to see Doral and Conoy's articles sectioned off either, as there really isn't enough content to justify it. The main articles should be more than disambig pages, with notes on the model as a whole, perhaps borrowed from [[Humano-Cylon]] - which I feel probably ought to be deleted soon anyway, in favor of [[Cylon Models]], along with stubs for the articles with their own pages, and full discussions for less-notable copies (such as the overseer six models, or Ragnar Valerii). I would also like to use series boxes for Valerii and Six, and categories as well (which can also be subcategories of "Characters (RDM)"). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:49, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::Farago I think you are jumping to conclusions of brobdingnagian proportions. Our pages for Conoy and Doral are ''already'' sectioned off with subheadings. No, (dragging in the debate over humanoid Cylon nomenclature) I feel that humanoid Cylons and "Cylons" are distinct. We should do what we have done before. Have a main "Cylon" page, with a separate "Humanoid Cylon" or "Cylon Agent" or whatever page, on which there are short descriptions of the known models of the 12, and links to their pages. (EXACTLY what it already done now, simply changing the *title*). I don't know what you mean by "series boxes". If I could be permitted, I'd like to do a "test" example in the future of what I envision it as, so we can all more clearly see it. Basically, I just think that the TITLE of the existing humanoid Cylon article be changed, and that Caprica-Sharon, Galactica-Sharon, and Gina get their own articles. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:28, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::: Ricimer. The comment about Conoy and Doral was regarding sectioning their articles off into different ''pages''. I felt that was perfectly clear, but you seem to'vve misunderstood bother Peter's and Undc23's comments. They were both advocating no change to how those two articles stand now. Just thought I'd sum that up. --[[User:Day|Day]] 07:06, 28 January 2006 (EST)
::::::::::Okay. Well, I also want no change to the Doral and Conoy articles as they stand now. Okay. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:59, 28 January 2006 (EST)

Done! Hope everyone's happy with the results (if not, you can always say so or adjust it yourself). I will do the same to [[Number Six]] in a day or two, unless someone beats me to it.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 22:44, 27 January 2006 (EST)
:It looks very good. Nice work, Undc.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:39, 6 February 2006 (EST)

==Ricimer's spoilers==

Ricimer, we need to link to that interview if we're going to cite it here. Is [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml this] the one? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:55, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:Yay, the very same. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:40, 6 November 2005 (EST)

== Why "Apparently 'Asian' Extraction"? ==

I glanced over a number of the human character bios (Helo, both Adamas, Starbuck, Roslin, and Dualla) and all the Humano-Cylon bios, and none of them make reference to their apparent Earth racial extractions. Why mention it for Sharon, much less put it at the top of the article? No one in the show talks about race (the closest they get to it is Colony reference, and Dualla and Zarek both being Saggitarons seems to nullify racial parallels). We're not even sure there were, or will be, any verified direct connection between the Earth races of today and Colonial humans. Unfortunately, the words "apparently 'Asian' extraction" come across more as an over-fixation on her Asian characteristics than anything else.

Could we get rid of the words? Or at least, in the interest of balance, make comparable comments in all the bios ("apparently 'Caucasian' extraction," "apparently 'African' extraction," etc.)? --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 15:35, 9 November 2005 (EST)

:You have a point and couldn't make it more clear. Comments from the rest of the peanut gallery? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 November 2005 (EST)

::I say we nix the "apparent" note, the only significant and consistent physiological notes that have been made on characters have dealt with accents (ie. Baltar), not appearance. Racial origin should be left to the cast bios, if noted at all. Colonial heritage, IMHO, is what matters to this wiki. Señor Peanut: --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 21:01, 9 November 2005 (EST)

:::I wouldn't mind getting rid of it. We have [[Race and Ethnicity in the Twelve Colonies]] to talk about this stuff. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:47, 10 November 2005 (EST)

== Rank ==
Moved to [[Talk:Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]].

== Ragnar Valerii ==
Moved to [[Talk:Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]].

== main image ==

Should we have a better image for the main one on this page?

If this article is for the Sharons in general, with other articles devoted to the two specific Sharons, should the image for the main page be the one from Kobol's Last Gleaming when Galact.-Sharon enounters the multiple Sharons?--[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 09:26, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Good idea, DrBat. I got the image for this page from the end of the miniseries when it's revealed shes a Cylon, but it didn't work as well as I hoped. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 18:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Hey, I was just thinkign that the current picture is not that good, both because it's a bit too wide and because of the quality. I was wondering if perhaps we should go with the simple portrait we used to have before. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:42, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:SharVal.jpg|thumb]]
::Yeah. This seems like a better image. Good call Sauron. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 20:58, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

:::Thanks :) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:16, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

==Number 8==
I think we should move this "hub" page for the various Sharon models to [[Number Eight]] to match [[Number Six]] and her subsidiary articles. Anyone else? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:11, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Indeed, change the name, and take Baltar Six out of "Number Six", call it "Caprica Six" since thats her name now!
--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 24 February 2006
::I agree. BTW Peter, check out the new pics I posted yesterday in Sharon's rank discussion. They're a lot clearer. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:25, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::Baltar's Six is the "angel of god" inside Baltar's head, not the one who got nuked on Caprica. We don't know quite ''what'' she is. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Miniseries==
At the end of the miniseries, when the humano-Cylons enter Ragnar, it seems that the Cylons refer to that particular Number 8 as a leader. Is that correct? [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 10:34, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:We've discussed this a bit, and basically A) She might have just been the leader of ''that specific group'' more probably B) It was just a really fun excuse to insert "By Your Command" into dialog.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:21, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:This is, in fact, already noted in the article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:02, 2 March 2006 (CST)

==The next four models==

''It would be interesting to see whether the four models created after Number Eight act more or less "human" than she.''

I don't think it's ever established that the model numbers reflect the order they were built in. I'm just curious if it was ever stated that Number Eight would predate Nine through Twelve. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 18:35, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: The method behind the numbering scheme used by the Cylons was never established. Personally, I believe that each model number corresponds to a personality type observed by the Cylons. (Basically, as RDM said, the Cylons said "oh, there's twelve of you [humans]" and made models based on that assessment.) Given this, the models could have been made in any numerical order; Number Six could have been first, while Number Eight could have been made second, and etc. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:40, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: With that said, realistically speaking, RDM and his team probably didn't come up with any numbering scheme in any specific order. After all, Number Six is a homage to ''The Prisoner''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:42, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:::What would the connection between the personality type and the number be? Why would the Cylons arbitrarily say, "This is the sixth kind of person." Doesn't it make more sense for the number to correspond to the order of "birth", especially in the light of the phrasing "There are twelve models. I'm Number Six." Even if the Cylons did label a certain personality type as the "sixth", it would then make the most sense for them to create that model sixth. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:01, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Honestly, I don't know. It's just an idea -- an idea that has no more or less weight than model numbers reflecting the order they were born (or built) in. That is ultimately my point, as well as the point Alpha's endeavoring to make as well, if I'm correct. As I mentioned, Number Six was a homage to ''The Prisoner'' and I honestly don't believe the writers came up with a definitive numbering system. Perhaps they came up with something later on during Season 1 and Season 2, though, I honestly don't know. And that's just my thought on the subject, though ultimately there's nothing for (or against) the model number order, and I honestly don't think this speculation should be included in this entry since it's baseless thus far. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 19:28, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

== Other Copies ==

The article states that
:It is possible that [the Eight seen at the end of the Miniseries] is the same individual as the Caprica copy. While, at the time the Miniseries had been filmed, there were no plans to have Tahmoh Penikett reprise the role of Helo, the ending of the Miniseries forms a link to "33", establishing that the Cylons have developed a plan for Helo's presence on Caprica.
This seems like total speculation to me and I don't quite understand how the end of the Miniseries establishs that the Cylons have developed a plan for Helo. Unless there is some kind of source for this, it should be deleted. [[User:Enemy|Enemy]] 21:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)
: Agreed. Let's remove it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 22:07, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Younger?==

I was wondering why the article refers to Sharon as the youngest model of the seven cylons we know? Is it because the actress is younger than her fellow cylon actors or because of an assumption based on her model number? If it's the former it doesn't really have anything to do with the cylon characters actual ages. If it's the latter I feel we should keep in mind that Leoben, Simon and Cavil model numbers are still unknown. They could easily be some combination of 9,10,11 or 12.

I think a slight rewording is in order. Something that indicates she APPEARS to be younger than the other cylons without actually saying she IS younger. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.
:I initially wrote that, as I was looking for attributes applying for all Eights. But you are right, it's certainly less than ideal, especially since a Cylon's outer appearance might not be related to the age of his or her consciousness at all. Feel free to change it. [[User:Sloan|Sloan]] 09:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)

==Possibly non-canon death of "Athena 2"==
Should the entry on the Eight with Athena's memories mention that she was killed by a One in a deleted scene in [[The Hub]]? In the podcast, RDM strongly implies that the deleted scene shouldn't be considered canon, however he also says that she should be presumed dead or at least out of the picture. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
:But when would this One have killed her? She returned to the Rebel Basestar. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

==Eight's 'Rank' increased?==

I have noticed that after the start of the cylon civil war, with the reduction of "Leader-Models" number eight has certainly had to assume more authority within the rebel cylon command. With Natalie and the Sixes commanding initially, but then after Natalie's death "Athena 2" steps up and for 'The Hub' episode seems to be the sole leader of the Cylons for that period of time. Once D'anna returns the command structure returns near to how it previously was before the civil war, but when D'anna checks out the viper's signal in 'Revelations', and eight accompanies her to verify and i suspect, aid her in what decision she should make, which to me shows that the eights still remain high up in cylon command.-- [[User:Centurion|Centurion]] 08:36, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
: The Cylon command structure is really non existent. Each one of them had an equal voice, which starts wavering in Season 2's "Downloaded" and through the entire occupation and "Final Five" arc. The eights don't command, for instance, but assume more of a presence during the civil war given that there's only three models part of the rebel faction. Further, the Eight merely accompanied D'Anna, they weren't given much of a "leadership" position per se. No particular model line has assumed command, it's always been an individual who has done so. Natalie became de facto leader after a fashion, same with D'Anna as she was the one with the knowledge of the Five, and the Eight who downloaded Athena's memories from her last download. (Which opens up a whole new can of worms, considering the security risk that entails. Definitely not something well thought out there, eh? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:: Ah yes, my choice of words before could have been better. But i do think that the Six's held a higher command than the other two copies in the rebel faction as it is mentioned twice that they are slightly more senior than the others. Like when Cavil explains to the newly downloaded Cavil that "The Sixes and their Acolytes" have started killing the others, and always when the Eights try to rope in Athena to help them "lead a mutiny against the sixes". But apart from that i guess your right, maybe because Number Two never does anything! Not on basestar command or on New Caprica, lazy cylon.. And on 'Athena 2', i think in a deleted scene she was killed by Cavil who boarded the rebel basestar, and RDM says that we should either consider her dead or out of the question. -- [[User:Centurion|Centurion]] 07:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC) *EDIT* Yes, in fact its above this post, silly me.

Talk:Number Eight/Archive 1

2008-09-02T07:37:26Z

Centurion: Reply to "Eight's Rank Increased?"

== Was Sharon a real person, once? ==

Caprica Boomer notes that humano-Cylons are not wired into each other's brains, so they don't share knowledge directly. However, she was aware of events in the fleet, which means some level of data from Galactica Boomer was received. She also recollects to Starbuck on the first time they met in the Delphi Museum. Could the Sharon that Starbuck knew was a real human, her consciousness cloned into a series of Cylon copies? Food for thought. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:52, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

No. Baltar's Cylon detector showed that she physically was not not a human (I forget how exactly the detector works; something like the artificial, silicon based cells of humanoid Cylons can't hold up to radiation to well and after prolonged exposure degenerate a little). They still have to explain to us the exact nature of the humanoid Cylons, but it is apparent that they aren't fully biological creatures: I think they're made of synthetic chemicals bases (silicon, etc) and they have Silica Relays running through their body; I mean they can transmit their consciousness and thoughts over vast distances just using whatever's in their brain.
Are *ANY* of the humanoid Cylons based on real people? We don't know. But the Galactica-Boomer was definately not an original. -- Ricimer, 11 Sept, 2005.

: I'm betting that Gaius was real -- [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|once]]. :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:45, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

::RDM said in that interview from thefandom.com that "there was never an original 'Sharon Valerii'" so I think that settles it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:04, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:::It has indeed, and the Twelve Models page is now moot. Answer moved to main Humano-Cylon page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]

== Keeping Track of the Valeriis ==

I recommend that we use "Boomer" as the name of the now-dead Galactica copy we first encounter in the mini-series in the article as applicable. The Caprica version can be "Sharon Valerii" or "Valerii" provided that the context where the copy is found is made clear in that part of the article. Remember that Galactica's crew doesn't see the Caprica copy as "Boomer" and we shouldn't call her as such. I've also broken up the text here to make reading and information easier to find. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:20, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

:Problematic. Although only the Galactica copy is properly "Boomer", both of them are Sharon Valerii. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

::That it is. But it is worse to use "Boomer" for all of the copies, and since it may be a cold day in hell before Adama allows any Valerii copy to fly again in the service of the Colonials, using the callsign is inappropriate as "Boomer" is dead. Hopefully we won't find any more Valeriis to disambiguate. I'm trying to treat things as we did the Ellen Tigh/Saul Tigh matter. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:43, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

:::I think we should probably refer to the one currently on Caprica with Caprica Six as Boomer Reloaded and the one on Galactica as Sharon. Boomer Reloaded would probably be more comfortable with the callsign than the non-pilot copy.--[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 02:26, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Is there a list of possible Images or something like that? How do you find the one you're looking for?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 08:29, 5 March 2006 (EST)

: Check out the [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images|Island of Misfit Images]], first off. Then you just have to hunt around. Kind of depends on what you're looking for. --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:45, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::The Eight at the beginning of Downloaded.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:51, 5 March 2006 (EST)

:::: Probably someone will have to get a screen cap of her, then, since it's a more recent episode there are less likely to be just tons of pics from it. You might put a note up at [[Battlestar Wiki:Requested Images]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:52, 5 March 2006 (CST)

Keeping track of the Valeriis may be easier in the future if recent spoilers are true. One would be Sharon Valerii and the other Sharon Valerii Agathon. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:30, 4 September 2006 (CDT)

=== Disambig? ===

Actually, how about creating an article for each of the two major Valerii's -- [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]], for instance -- and using [[Sharon Valerii]] as a disambig/information page for the Valerii model line? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:05, 6 November 2005 (EST)

*I am unsure that that would be the best option. Perhaps by the end of season 3 we might make that choice, but that's 30 episodes from now. Right now, I just think they should be under one article, though it is a valid point. --->On top of this, we keep calling them "Galactica-Boomer" and "Caprica-Boomer". Someone then pointed out that we shouldn't call "Caprica-Boomer" 'Boomer' because it's a military callsign and she was never ''really'' in the military. However, I feel that originally this was a wise choice because Helo ''thought'' she was "Boomer" as she was ''posing'' as Galactica-Boomer. Also, we need to check if anyone calls her "Boomer" anymore after she is brought to ''Galactica''. Anyway, I approve of the prevailing tendency to refer to her post-"Home" as "Caprica-Sharon"--->Regardless, we have indeed encountered a problem now that we have this information from RDM: "Caprica-Sharon" is now on ''Galactica'', and "Galactica-Sharon" is now going to wake up in a new body on or near Caprica. We '''cannot''' refer to them as "Boomer 1" and her counterpart "Boomer 2" because that would imply that "Galactica-Boomer is the "original", and she is not; RDM said there is ''no'' "original", and "Caprica-Sharon" has equal claim to this. Perhaps we could use "Boomer 1" and "Boomer A"--->no, wait, that would be only more confusing. In addition to this, there are also other 'generic' "evil" standard-Cylon Sharons, like the one introduced at the end of "Final Cut". Maybe we could use the less-often prefered nomenclature: "Tyrol-Boomer" for Chief Tyrol's Boomer (Galactica-Boomer) and "Helo-Boomer" for the one that got impregnated by Helo ("Caprica-Boomer"). Of course, there is always the possibility of some crazy soap-opera love triangle and Tyrol falling for Caprica-Boomer because he thinks Galactica-Boomer is dead only to find that Galactica-Boomer has become the new Caprica-Boomer leading to a tense standoff with the standard Caprica-Six who is taking orders from Baltar-Six the angel of God who is in turn having a love triangle with Pegasus-Six a.k.a. Gina who will be supplied with a nuclear weapon and Raptor by Galactica-Jammer which will be preceded by Cally-Selix being outed by Galactica-D'Anna when in fact she is not a Cylon throwing blame off of Galactica-D'Anna even as Caprica-D'Anna is trying to indoctrinate Galactica-Caprica-Galactica Boomer into the Cylon religion only to be saved by Anders but not before being impregnated with Starbuck's missing egg cells. This could take a while. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:53, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:Wow. Wow. Wow. WOW. Ricimer. Good LORD, man. There is some part loose in your head and I like it. Wow. Anyway, I actually kind of like the idea of sing Tyrol-Sharon (or, more properly, Tyrol-Valerii?) and Helo-Sharon (Agathon-Valerii? Ouch.). That's a bit odd, perhaps, to those of us who've been watching from the start, but what if someone missed the parts where Caprica-Sharon was on Caprica and so only know of this one that, as far as they know, has always been on ''Galactica''--and why the hell don't these wiki-morons get their facts straight about Galactica-Boomer and her pregnancy and all? ;) Or maybe we should call the one of them Preggers-Boomer or Mama-Boomer or something and the other, uh... Dead-Boomer or Sleeper-Boomer. Or maybe not. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:05, 17 December 2005 (EST)

::I don't. Galactica-Valerii and Caprica-Valerii are still unambiguous, and with "Downloaded" indefinitely shelved, it appears they will remain that way. I find identifying them by their S.O.'s tasteless and no less confusing than our current system. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:50, 17 December 2005 (EST)

*I think we should go with Joes idea and split the article with the Galactica/Caprica convention (though I have no problem with the Helo/Tyrol one either). If at some point in the series it becomes clear that a different convention makes more sense, we could change it then. Else we could be waiting a long time with one massive, confusing Valerii article (its only going to get bigger after all).--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 21:43, 28 December 2005 (EST)

====The Best Laid Plans, Sometimes Best Left Buried====

Four months, three new episodes, and [[Downloaded|a lot of Spoilers]] later, I feel that the time has come to disambiguate [[Galactica-Sharon]] and [[Caprica-Sharon]] into two separate characters pages, as Joe agreed. Obviously, following the model of the Humano-Cylon page, there will be "stubs" for Galactica and Caprica-Sharon on this page, leading to full articles (other models of Sharon, like the "The Hand of God" one, Ragnar copy, "Final Cut" copy, etc. will have their entire entry here (that is, just leave their info as is). I'll use the names "Galactica-Sharon" and "Caprica-Sharon" because those are the names which were ''not'' developed by me, but which developed ''ad hoc'' on the internet to tell the two apart (notably on Televisionwithoutpity, though I can tell you that it didn't ''start'' there, but on the messageboards for the show, etc.) Nextly, we aren't using "Caprica-Boomer", etc. because "Boomer" is a military callsign and after they found out she was a Cylon she wasn't part of their unit anymore. Come to think of it, I think they've ''never'' called her Boomer since Caprica-Sharon got to Galactica. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:14, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:I'm inclined to agree with the split, (with the caveat that the articles should be located at [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica Copy]]), along with the various Number Six identities, but I feel like I should point out one thing: None of the cylon characters have actually received more screen time than any human character. If their articles are so large and ungainly that they demand to be split, this cries out of summary and concision. We will not have this recourse with the human character articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:23, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::The two Boomers have each separetly had more development than several recurring characters; Cally, Racetrack, etc. Galactica-Boomer got about as much development as Tyrol, and Caprica-Boomer got about as much development as Helo, yet the experiences of each were unique. '''And the evidence speaks for itself'''; I mean just look at the article; quite a LARGE amount of information, for each separately, and you can see that they require no summary or concision. They've just both led...shall we say, "colorful"?...lives? That's kind of what makes "Sharon" one of the more intriguing characters. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:59, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:I would also note that this is bound to generate some discussion and require some thought beforehand. We shouldn't jump the gun until we have broad consensus. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:24, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::Truth. Yet this is a special case; it was already largely agreed that they ''should'' be separated, but it was decided to wait a while longer until they were known to be truly distinct characters (at the time, we were unaware of spoilers that Galactica-Sharon would come back and we thought she was dead for good. In light of this, I see the need as more pressing than ever). Many agreed ''already'' that this was the wiser choice. I want to get the ball rolling, let others play around with the idea to get used to it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:55, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::: I don't know that I agree with a split. I don't know that I ''disagree'' either, though. I just thought I'd post that I have some reservations. I don't have the time to look too closely at it right now, so I'll try to meditate on it and post an actual decision tonight (unless I'm too tired from work or something). --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:26, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::I'm torn on a split because of the confusion that it can create. Yet at the same time, as time goes on, ALL of the character bio pages will become too large and cumbersome. Perhaps we should apply a process similar to what we did for the Cylon (RDM) and Twelve Colonies (RDM) pages--create a parent with child subarticles.
::::*A master page on the Valerii model that summarizes the model, VERY brief links to subarticles, and notes on other models encountered (minor or in-passing encounters).
::::*A series link that gives distinct subarticles for each major Valerii encountered (All two)

::::So the [[Sharon Valerii]] page is the parent, with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Boomer)]] as subarticles. Another example, [[Number Six]] would be the parent, with [[Natasi]], [[Number Six (Virtual)]], [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]] as subarticles.

::::This idea actually works better with Six (who has had four separate significant characters). For Colonials, we will have to look into something like this as well or severely truncate their bios over time as the show progresses. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:10, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Er, that's actually what I just suggested (the first option). The second option you listed is what we already do; have subarticles about the different copies. What I want is to do what we did on the humanoid Cylon page: brief description and a link, leading off to another article about that character in detail. My key point is that not ALL of them need their own pages, i.e. copies of Number Six with a "standard" personality don't need separate pages, just keep their info on the main page. I'm not sure of Natasi-Six and ChipSix are separate characers, though they probably are. Gina definately is, as is Shelley Godrey (I'm still not sure if she was a self-aware Six, or honestly acting out fake memories).--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:40, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::::As there's been the call for a consensus, I'll put my two bits in: yes! I've been keen to see this for a while. Are we going to do the same with Conoy and Doral? (I wouldn't). As for Natasi and ChipSix, I think we should just have them in the main Number Six article, as they don't have different personalities and seperate articles would confuse. Also, I agree with Farago that the articles should be titiled like [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] and not [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica)]].--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 20:43, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::::Some final thoughts - I would not like to see Doral and Conoy's articles sectioned off either, as there really isn't enough content to justify it. The main articles should be more than disambig pages, with notes on the model as a whole, perhaps borrowed from [[Humano-Cylon]] - which I feel probably ought to be deleted soon anyway, in favor of [[Cylon Models]], along with stubs for the articles with their own pages, and full discussions for less-notable copies (such as the overseer six models, or Ragnar Valerii). I would also like to use series boxes for Valerii and Six, and categories as well (which can also be subcategories of "Characters (RDM)"). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:49, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::Farago I think you are jumping to conclusions of brobdingnagian proportions. Our pages for Conoy and Doral are ''already'' sectioned off with subheadings. No, (dragging in the debate over humanoid Cylon nomenclature) I feel that humanoid Cylons and "Cylons" are distinct. We should do what we have done before. Have a main "Cylon" page, with a separate "Humanoid Cylon" or "Cylon Agent" or whatever page, on which there are short descriptions of the known models of the 12, and links to their pages. (EXACTLY what it already done now, simply changing the *title*). I don't know what you mean by "series boxes". If I could be permitted, I'd like to do a "test" example in the future of what I envision it as, so we can all more clearly see it. Basically, I just think that the TITLE of the existing humanoid Cylon article be changed, and that Caprica-Sharon, Galactica-Sharon, and Gina get their own articles. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:28, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::: Ricimer. The comment about Conoy and Doral was regarding sectioning their articles off into different ''pages''. I felt that was perfectly clear, but you seem to'vve misunderstood bother Peter's and Undc23's comments. They were both advocating no change to how those two articles stand now. Just thought I'd sum that up. --[[User:Day|Day]] 07:06, 28 January 2006 (EST)
::::::::::Okay. Well, I also want no change to the Doral and Conoy articles as they stand now. Okay. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:59, 28 January 2006 (EST)

Done! Hope everyone's happy with the results (if not, you can always say so or adjust it yourself). I will do the same to [[Number Six]] in a day or two, unless someone beats me to it.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 22:44, 27 January 2006 (EST)
:It looks very good. Nice work, Undc.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:39, 6 February 2006 (EST)

==Ricimer's spoilers==

Ricimer, we need to link to that interview if we're going to cite it here. Is [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml this] the one? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:55, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:Yay, the very same. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:40, 6 November 2005 (EST)

== Why "Apparently 'Asian' Extraction"? ==

I glanced over a number of the human character bios (Helo, both Adamas, Starbuck, Roslin, and Dualla) and all the Humano-Cylon bios, and none of them make reference to their apparent Earth racial extractions. Why mention it for Sharon, much less put it at the top of the article? No one in the show talks about race (the closest they get to it is Colony reference, and Dualla and Zarek both being Saggitarons seems to nullify racial parallels). We're not even sure there were, or will be, any verified direct connection between the Earth races of today and Colonial humans. Unfortunately, the words "apparently 'Asian' extraction" come across more as an over-fixation on her Asian characteristics than anything else.

Could we get rid of the words? Or at least, in the interest of balance, make comparable comments in all the bios ("apparently 'Caucasian' extraction," "apparently 'African' extraction," etc.)? --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 15:35, 9 November 2005 (EST)

:You have a point and couldn't make it more clear. Comments from the rest of the peanut gallery? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 November 2005 (EST)

::I say we nix the "apparent" note, the only significant and consistent physiological notes that have been made on characters have dealt with accents (ie. Baltar), not appearance. Racial origin should be left to the cast bios, if noted at all. Colonial heritage, IMHO, is what matters to this wiki. Señor Peanut: --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 21:01, 9 November 2005 (EST)

:::I wouldn't mind getting rid of it. We have [[Race and Ethnicity in the Twelve Colonies]] to talk about this stuff. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:47, 10 November 2005 (EST)

== Rank ==
Moved to [[Talk:Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]].

== Ragnar Valerii ==
Moved to [[Talk:Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]].

== main image ==

Should we have a better image for the main one on this page?

If this article is for the Sharons in general, with other articles devoted to the two specific Sharons, should the image for the main page be the one from Kobol's Last Gleaming when Galact.-Sharon enounters the multiple Sharons?--[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 09:26, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Good idea, DrBat. I got the image for this page from the end of the miniseries when it's revealed shes a Cylon, but it didn't work as well as I hoped. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 18:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Hey, I was just thinkign that the current picture is not that good, both because it's a bit too wide and because of the quality. I was wondering if perhaps we should go with the simple portrait we used to have before. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:42, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:SharVal.jpg|thumb]]
::Yeah. This seems like a better image. Good call Sauron. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 20:58, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

:::Thanks :) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:16, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

==Number 8==
I think we should move this "hub" page for the various Sharon models to [[Number Eight]] to match [[Number Six]] and her subsidiary articles. Anyone else? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:11, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Indeed, change the name, and take Baltar Six out of "Number Six", call it "Caprica Six" since thats her name now!
--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 24 February 2006
::I agree. BTW Peter, check out the new pics I posted yesterday in Sharon's rank discussion. They're a lot clearer. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:25, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::Baltar's Six is the "angel of god" inside Baltar's head, not the one who got nuked on Caprica. We don't know quite ''what'' she is. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Miniseries==
At the end of the miniseries, when the humano-Cylons enter Ragnar, it seems that the Cylons refer to that particular Number 8 as a leader. Is that correct? [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 10:34, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:We've discussed this a bit, and basically A) She might have just been the leader of ''that specific group'' more probably B) It was just a really fun excuse to insert "By Your Command" into dialog.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:21, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:This is, in fact, already noted in the article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:02, 2 March 2006 (CST)

==The next four models==

''It would be interesting to see whether the four models created after Number Eight act more or less "human" than she.''

I don't think it's ever established that the model numbers reflect the order they were built in. I'm just curious if it was ever stated that Number Eight would predate Nine through Twelve. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 18:35, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: The method behind the numbering scheme used by the Cylons was never established. Personally, I believe that each model number corresponds to a personality type observed by the Cylons. (Basically, as RDM said, the Cylons said "oh, there's twelve of you [humans]" and made models based on that assessment.) Given this, the models could have been made in any numerical order; Number Six could have been first, while Number Eight could have been made second, and etc. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:40, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: With that said, realistically speaking, RDM and his team probably didn't come up with any numbering scheme in any specific order. After all, Number Six is a homage to ''The Prisoner''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:42, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:::What would the connection between the personality type and the number be? Why would the Cylons arbitrarily say, "This is the sixth kind of person." Doesn't it make more sense for the number to correspond to the order of "birth", especially in the light of the phrasing "There are twelve models. I'm Number Six." Even if the Cylons did label a certain personality type as the "sixth", it would then make the most sense for them to create that model sixth. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:01, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Honestly, I don't know. It's just an idea -- an idea that has no more or less weight than model numbers reflecting the order they were born (or built) in. That is ultimately my point, as well as the point Alpha's endeavoring to make as well, if I'm correct. As I mentioned, Number Six was a homage to ''The Prisoner'' and I honestly don't believe the writers came up with a definitive numbering system. Perhaps they came up with something later on during Season 1 and Season 2, though, I honestly don't know. And that's just my thought on the subject, though ultimately there's nothing for (or against) the model number order, and I honestly don't think this speculation should be included in this entry since it's baseless thus far. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 19:28, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

== Other Copies ==

The article states that
:It is possible that [the Eight seen at the end of the Miniseries] is the same individual as the Caprica copy. While, at the time the Miniseries had been filmed, there were no plans to have Tahmoh Penikett reprise the role of Helo, the ending of the Miniseries forms a link to "33", establishing that the Cylons have developed a plan for Helo's presence on Caprica.
This seems like total speculation to me and I don't quite understand how the end of the Miniseries establishs that the Cylons have developed a plan for Helo. Unless there is some kind of source for this, it should be deleted. [[User:Enemy|Enemy]] 21:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)
: Agreed. Let's remove it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 22:07, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Younger?==

I was wondering why the article refers to Sharon as the youngest model of the seven cylons we know? Is it because the actress is younger than her fellow cylon actors or because of an assumption based on her model number? If it's the former it doesn't really have anything to do with the cylon characters actual ages. If it's the latter I feel we should keep in mind that Leoben, Simon and Cavil model numbers are still unknown. They could easily be some combination of 9,10,11 or 12.

I think a slight rewording is in order. Something that indicates she APPEARS to be younger than the other cylons without actually saying she IS younger. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.
:I initially wrote that, as I was looking for attributes applying for all Eights. But you are right, it's certainly less than ideal, especially since a Cylon's outer appearance might not be related to the age of his or her consciousness at all. Feel free to change it. [[User:Sloan|Sloan]] 09:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)

==Possibly non-canon death of "Athena 2"==
Should the entry on the Eight with Athena's memories mention that she was killed by a One in a deleted scene in [[The Hub]]? In the podcast, RDM strongly implies that the deleted scene shouldn't be considered canon, however he also says that she should be presumed dead or at least out of the picture. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
:But when would this One have killed her? She returned to the Rebel Basestar. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

==Eight's 'Rank' increased?==

I have noticed that after the start of the cylon civil war, with the reduction of "Leader-Models" number eight has certainly had to assume more authority within the rebel cylon command. With Natalie and the Sixes commanding initially, but then after Natalie's death "Athena 2" steps up and for 'The Hub' episode seems to be the sole leader of the Cylons for that period of time. Once D'anna returns the command structure returns near to how it previously was before the civil war, but when D'anna checks out the viper's signal in 'Revelations', and eight accompanies her to verify and i suspect, aid her in what decision she should make, which to me shows that the eights still remain high up in cylon command.-- [[User:Centurion|Centurion]] 08:36, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
: The Cylon command structure is really non existent. Each one of them had an equal voice, which starts wavering in Season 2's "Downloaded" and through the entire occupation and "Final Five" arc. The eights don't command, for instance, but assume more of a presence during the civil war given that there's only three models part of the rebel faction. Further, the Eight merely accompanied D'Anna, they weren't given much of a "leadership" position per se. No particular model line has assumed command, it's always been an individual who has done so. Natalie became de facto leader after a fashion, same with D'Anna as she was the one with the knowledge of the Five, and the Eight who downloaded Athena's memories from her last download. (Which opens up a whole new can of worms, considering the security risk that entails. Definitely not something well thought out there, eh? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:: Ah yes, my choice of words before could have been better. But i do think that the Six's held a higher command than the other two copies in the rebel faction as it is mentioned twice that they are slightly more senior than the others. Like when Cavil explains to the newly downloaded Cavil that "The Sixes and their Acolytes" have started killing the others, and always when the Eights try to rope in Athena to help them "lead a mutiny against the sixes". But apart from that i guess your right, maybe because Number Two never does anything! Not on basestar command or on New Caprica, lazy cylon.. And on 'Athena 2', i think in a deleted scene she was killed by Cavil who boarded the rebel basestar, and RDM says that we should either consider her dead or out of the question. *EDIT* Yes, in fact its above this post, silly me.

Talk:Number Eight/Archive 1

2008-08-30T08:36:57Z

Centurion: Another Thought i think should be added about Cylon Leadership and the Eights.

== Was Sharon a real person, once? ==

Caprica Boomer notes that humano-Cylons are not wired into each other's brains, so they don't share knowledge directly. However, she was aware of events in the fleet, which means some level of data from Galactica Boomer was received. She also recollects to Starbuck on the first time they met in the Delphi Museum. Could the Sharon that Starbuck knew was a real human, her consciousness cloned into a series of Cylon copies? Food for thought. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:52, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

No. Baltar's Cylon detector showed that she physically was not not a human (I forget how exactly the detector works; something like the artificial, silicon based cells of humanoid Cylons can't hold up to radiation to well and after prolonged exposure degenerate a little). They still have to explain to us the exact nature of the humanoid Cylons, but it is apparent that they aren't fully biological creatures: I think they're made of synthetic chemicals bases (silicon, etc) and they have Silica Relays running through their body; I mean they can transmit their consciousness and thoughts over vast distances just using whatever's in their brain.
Are *ANY* of the humanoid Cylons based on real people? We don't know. But the Galactica-Boomer was definately not an original. -- Ricimer, 11 Sept, 2005.

: I'm betting that Gaius was real -- [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|once]]. :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:45, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

::RDM said in that interview from thefandom.com that "there was never an original 'Sharon Valerii'" so I think that settles it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:04, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:::It has indeed, and the Twelve Models page is now moot. Answer moved to main Humano-Cylon page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]

== Keeping Track of the Valeriis ==

I recommend that we use "Boomer" as the name of the now-dead Galactica copy we first encounter in the mini-series in the article as applicable. The Caprica version can be "Sharon Valerii" or "Valerii" provided that the context where the copy is found is made clear in that part of the article. Remember that Galactica's crew doesn't see the Caprica copy as "Boomer" and we shouldn't call her as such. I've also broken up the text here to make reading and information easier to find. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:20, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

:Problematic. Although only the Galactica copy is properly "Boomer", both of them are Sharon Valerii. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

::That it is. But it is worse to use "Boomer" for all of the copies, and since it may be a cold day in hell before Adama allows any Valerii copy to fly again in the service of the Colonials, using the callsign is inappropriate as "Boomer" is dead. Hopefully we won't find any more Valeriis to disambiguate. I'm trying to treat things as we did the Ellen Tigh/Saul Tigh matter. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:43, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

:::I think we should probably refer to the one currently on Caprica with Caprica Six as Boomer Reloaded and the one on Galactica as Sharon. Boomer Reloaded would probably be more comfortable with the callsign than the non-pilot copy.--[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 02:26, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Is there a list of possible Images or something like that? How do you find the one you're looking for?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 08:29, 5 March 2006 (EST)

: Check out the [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images|Island of Misfit Images]], first off. Then you just have to hunt around. Kind of depends on what you're looking for. --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:45, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::The Eight at the beginning of Downloaded.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:51, 5 March 2006 (EST)

:::: Probably someone will have to get a screen cap of her, then, since it's a more recent episode there are less likely to be just tons of pics from it. You might put a note up at [[Battlestar Wiki:Requested Images]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:52, 5 March 2006 (CST)

Keeping track of the Valeriis may be easier in the future if recent spoilers are true. One would be Sharon Valerii and the other Sharon Valerii Agathon. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:30, 4 September 2006 (CDT)

=== Disambig? ===

Actually, how about creating an article for each of the two major Valerii's -- [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]], for instance -- and using [[Sharon Valerii]] as a disambig/information page for the Valerii model line? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:05, 6 November 2005 (EST)

*I am unsure that that would be the best option. Perhaps by the end of season 3 we might make that choice, but that's 30 episodes from now. Right now, I just think they should be under one article, though it is a valid point. --->On top of this, we keep calling them "Galactica-Boomer" and "Caprica-Boomer". Someone then pointed out that we shouldn't call "Caprica-Boomer" 'Boomer' because it's a military callsign and she was never ''really'' in the military. However, I feel that originally this was a wise choice because Helo ''thought'' she was "Boomer" as she was ''posing'' as Galactica-Boomer. Also, we need to check if anyone calls her "Boomer" anymore after she is brought to ''Galactica''. Anyway, I approve of the prevailing tendency to refer to her post-"Home" as "Caprica-Sharon"--->Regardless, we have indeed encountered a problem now that we have this information from RDM: "Caprica-Sharon" is now on ''Galactica'', and "Galactica-Sharon" is now going to wake up in a new body on or near Caprica. We '''cannot''' refer to them as "Boomer 1" and her counterpart "Boomer 2" because that would imply that "Galactica-Boomer is the "original", and she is not; RDM said there is ''no'' "original", and "Caprica-Sharon" has equal claim to this. Perhaps we could use "Boomer 1" and "Boomer A"--->no, wait, that would be only more confusing. In addition to this, there are also other 'generic' "evil" standard-Cylon Sharons, like the one introduced at the end of "Final Cut". Maybe we could use the less-often prefered nomenclature: "Tyrol-Boomer" for Chief Tyrol's Boomer (Galactica-Boomer) and "Helo-Boomer" for the one that got impregnated by Helo ("Caprica-Boomer"). Of course, there is always the possibility of some crazy soap-opera love triangle and Tyrol falling for Caprica-Boomer because he thinks Galactica-Boomer is dead only to find that Galactica-Boomer has become the new Caprica-Boomer leading to a tense standoff with the standard Caprica-Six who is taking orders from Baltar-Six the angel of God who is in turn having a love triangle with Pegasus-Six a.k.a. Gina who will be supplied with a nuclear weapon and Raptor by Galactica-Jammer which will be preceded by Cally-Selix being outed by Galactica-D'Anna when in fact she is not a Cylon throwing blame off of Galactica-D'Anna even as Caprica-D'Anna is trying to indoctrinate Galactica-Caprica-Galactica Boomer into the Cylon religion only to be saved by Anders but not before being impregnated with Starbuck's missing egg cells. This could take a while. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:53, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:Wow. Wow. Wow. WOW. Ricimer. Good LORD, man. There is some part loose in your head and I like it. Wow. Anyway, I actually kind of like the idea of sing Tyrol-Sharon (or, more properly, Tyrol-Valerii?) and Helo-Sharon (Agathon-Valerii? Ouch.). That's a bit odd, perhaps, to those of us who've been watching from the start, but what if someone missed the parts where Caprica-Sharon was on Caprica and so only know of this one that, as far as they know, has always been on ''Galactica''--and why the hell don't these wiki-morons get their facts straight about Galactica-Boomer and her pregnancy and all? ;) Or maybe we should call the one of them Preggers-Boomer or Mama-Boomer or something and the other, uh... Dead-Boomer or Sleeper-Boomer. Or maybe not. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:05, 17 December 2005 (EST)

::I don't. Galactica-Valerii and Caprica-Valerii are still unambiguous, and with "Downloaded" indefinitely shelved, it appears they will remain that way. I find identifying them by their S.O.'s tasteless and no less confusing than our current system. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:50, 17 December 2005 (EST)

*I think we should go with Joes idea and split the article with the Galactica/Caprica convention (though I have no problem with the Helo/Tyrol one either). If at some point in the series it becomes clear that a different convention makes more sense, we could change it then. Else we could be waiting a long time with one massive, confusing Valerii article (its only going to get bigger after all).--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 21:43, 28 December 2005 (EST)

====The Best Laid Plans, Sometimes Best Left Buried====

Four months, three new episodes, and [[Downloaded|a lot of Spoilers]] later, I feel that the time has come to disambiguate [[Galactica-Sharon]] and [[Caprica-Sharon]] into two separate characters pages, as Joe agreed. Obviously, following the model of the Humano-Cylon page, there will be "stubs" for Galactica and Caprica-Sharon on this page, leading to full articles (other models of Sharon, like the "The Hand of God" one, Ragnar copy, "Final Cut" copy, etc. will have their entire entry here (that is, just leave their info as is). I'll use the names "Galactica-Sharon" and "Caprica-Sharon" because those are the names which were ''not'' developed by me, but which developed ''ad hoc'' on the internet to tell the two apart (notably on Televisionwithoutpity, though I can tell you that it didn't ''start'' there, but on the messageboards for the show, etc.) Nextly, we aren't using "Caprica-Boomer", etc. because "Boomer" is a military callsign and after they found out she was a Cylon she wasn't part of their unit anymore. Come to think of it, I think they've ''never'' called her Boomer since Caprica-Sharon got to Galactica. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:14, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:I'm inclined to agree with the split, (with the caveat that the articles should be located at [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica Copy]]), along with the various Number Six identities, but I feel like I should point out one thing: None of the cylon characters have actually received more screen time than any human character. If their articles are so large and ungainly that they demand to be split, this cries out of summary and concision. We will not have this recourse with the human character articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:23, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::The two Boomers have each separetly had more development than several recurring characters; Cally, Racetrack, etc. Galactica-Boomer got about as much development as Tyrol, and Caprica-Boomer got about as much development as Helo, yet the experiences of each were unique. '''And the evidence speaks for itself'''; I mean just look at the article; quite a LARGE amount of information, for each separately, and you can see that they require no summary or concision. They've just both led...shall we say, "colorful"?...lives? That's kind of what makes "Sharon" one of the more intriguing characters. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:59, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:I would also note that this is bound to generate some discussion and require some thought beforehand. We shouldn't jump the gun until we have broad consensus. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:24, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::Truth. Yet this is a special case; it was already largely agreed that they ''should'' be separated, but it was decided to wait a while longer until they were known to be truly distinct characters (at the time, we were unaware of spoilers that Galactica-Sharon would come back and we thought she was dead for good. In light of this, I see the need as more pressing than ever). Many agreed ''already'' that this was the wiser choice. I want to get the ball rolling, let others play around with the idea to get used to it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:55, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::: I don't know that I agree with a split. I don't know that I ''disagree'' either, though. I just thought I'd post that I have some reservations. I don't have the time to look too closely at it right now, so I'll try to meditate on it and post an actual decision tonight (unless I'm too tired from work or something). --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:26, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::I'm torn on a split because of the confusion that it can create. Yet at the same time, as time goes on, ALL of the character bio pages will become too large and cumbersome. Perhaps we should apply a process similar to what we did for the Cylon (RDM) and Twelve Colonies (RDM) pages--create a parent with child subarticles.
::::*A master page on the Valerii model that summarizes the model, VERY brief links to subarticles, and notes on other models encountered (minor or in-passing encounters).
::::*A series link that gives distinct subarticles for each major Valerii encountered (All two)

::::So the [[Sharon Valerii]] page is the parent, with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica)]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Boomer)]] as subarticles. Another example, [[Number Six]] would be the parent, with [[Natasi]], [[Number Six (Virtual)]], [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]] as subarticles.

::::This idea actually works better with Six (who has had four separate significant characters). For Colonials, we will have to look into something like this as well or severely truncate their bios over time as the show progresses. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:10, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Er, that's actually what I just suggested (the first option). The second option you listed is what we already do; have subarticles about the different copies. What I want is to do what we did on the humanoid Cylon page: brief description and a link, leading off to another article about that character in detail. My key point is that not ALL of them need their own pages, i.e. copies of Number Six with a "standard" personality don't need separate pages, just keep their info on the main page. I'm not sure of Natasi-Six and ChipSix are separate characers, though they probably are. Gina definately is, as is Shelley Godrey (I'm still not sure if she was a self-aware Six, or honestly acting out fake memories).--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:40, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::::As there's been the call for a consensus, I'll put my two bits in: yes! I've been keen to see this for a while. Are we going to do the same with Conoy and Doral? (I wouldn't). As for Natasi and ChipSix, I think we should just have them in the main Number Six article, as they don't have different personalities and seperate articles would confuse. Also, I agree with Farago that the articles should be titiled like [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] and not [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica)]].--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 20:43, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::::Some final thoughts - I would not like to see Doral and Conoy's articles sectioned off either, as there really isn't enough content to justify it. The main articles should be more than disambig pages, with notes on the model as a whole, perhaps borrowed from [[Humano-Cylon]] - which I feel probably ought to be deleted soon anyway, in favor of [[Cylon Models]], along with stubs for the articles with their own pages, and full discussions for less-notable copies (such as the overseer six models, or Ragnar Valerii). I would also like to use series boxes for Valerii and Six, and categories as well (which can also be subcategories of "Characters (RDM)"). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:49, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::Farago I think you are jumping to conclusions of brobdingnagian proportions. Our pages for Conoy and Doral are ''already'' sectioned off with subheadings. No, (dragging in the debate over humanoid Cylon nomenclature) I feel that humanoid Cylons and "Cylons" are distinct. We should do what we have done before. Have a main "Cylon" page, with a separate "Humanoid Cylon" or "Cylon Agent" or whatever page, on which there are short descriptions of the known models of the 12, and links to their pages. (EXACTLY what it already done now, simply changing the *title*). I don't know what you mean by "series boxes". If I could be permitted, I'd like to do a "test" example in the future of what I envision it as, so we can all more clearly see it. Basically, I just think that the TITLE of the existing humanoid Cylon article be changed, and that Caprica-Sharon, Galactica-Sharon, and Gina get their own articles. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:28, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::::::::: Ricimer. The comment about Conoy and Doral was regarding sectioning their articles off into different ''pages''. I felt that was perfectly clear, but you seem to'vve misunderstood bother Peter's and Undc23's comments. They were both advocating no change to how those two articles stand now. Just thought I'd sum that up. --[[User:Day|Day]] 07:06, 28 January 2006 (EST)
::::::::::Okay. Well, I also want no change to the Doral and Conoy articles as they stand now. Okay. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:59, 28 January 2006 (EST)

Done! Hope everyone's happy with the results (if not, you can always say so or adjust it yourself). I will do the same to [[Number Six]] in a day or two, unless someone beats me to it.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 22:44, 27 January 2006 (EST)
:It looks very good. Nice work, Undc.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:39, 6 February 2006 (EST)

==Ricimer's spoilers==

Ricimer, we need to link to that interview if we're going to cite it here. Is [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml this] the one? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:55, 6 November 2005 (EST)

:Yay, the very same. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:40, 6 November 2005 (EST)

== Why "Apparently 'Asian' Extraction"? ==

I glanced over a number of the human character bios (Helo, both Adamas, Starbuck, Roslin, and Dualla) and all the Humano-Cylon bios, and none of them make reference to their apparent Earth racial extractions. Why mention it for Sharon, much less put it at the top of the article? No one in the show talks about race (the closest they get to it is Colony reference, and Dualla and Zarek both being Saggitarons seems to nullify racial parallels). We're not even sure there were, or will be, any verified direct connection between the Earth races of today and Colonial humans. Unfortunately, the words "apparently 'Asian' extraction" come across more as an over-fixation on her Asian characteristics than anything else.

Could we get rid of the words? Or at least, in the interest of balance, make comparable comments in all the bios ("apparently 'Caucasian' extraction," "apparently 'African' extraction," etc.)? --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 15:35, 9 November 2005 (EST)

:You have a point and couldn't make it more clear. Comments from the rest of the peanut gallery? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 November 2005 (EST)

::I say we nix the "apparent" note, the only significant and consistent physiological notes that have been made on characters have dealt with accents (ie. Baltar), not appearance. Racial origin should be left to the cast bios, if noted at all. Colonial heritage, IMHO, is what matters to this wiki. Señor Peanut: --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 21:01, 9 November 2005 (EST)

:::I wouldn't mind getting rid of it. We have [[Race and Ethnicity in the Twelve Colonies]] to talk about this stuff. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:47, 10 November 2005 (EST)

== Rank ==
Moved to [[Talk:Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]].

== Ragnar Valerii ==
Moved to [[Talk:Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]].

== main image ==

Should we have a better image for the main one on this page?

If this article is for the Sharons in general, with other articles devoted to the two specific Sharons, should the image for the main page be the one from Kobol's Last Gleaming when Galact.-Sharon enounters the multiple Sharons?--[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 09:26, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Good idea, DrBat. I got the image for this page from the end of the miniseries when it's revealed shes a Cylon, but it didn't work as well as I hoped. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 18:52, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Hey, I was just thinkign that the current picture is not that good, both because it's a bit too wide and because of the quality. I was wondering if perhaps we should go with the simple portrait we used to have before. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:42, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:SharVal.jpg|thumb]]
::Yeah. This seems like a better image. Good call Sauron. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 20:58, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

:::Thanks :) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:16, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

==Number 8==
I think we should move this "hub" page for the various Sharon models to [[Number Eight]] to match [[Number Six]] and her subsidiary articles. Anyone else? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:11, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Indeed, change the name, and take Baltar Six out of "Number Six", call it "Caprica Six" since thats her name now!
--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 24 February 2006
::I agree. BTW Peter, check out the new pics I posted yesterday in Sharon's rank discussion. They're a lot clearer. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:25, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::Baltar's Six is the "angel of god" inside Baltar's head, not the one who got nuked on Caprica. We don't know quite ''what'' she is. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 24 February 2006 (EST)

==Miniseries==
At the end of the miniseries, when the humano-Cylons enter Ragnar, it seems that the Cylons refer to that particular Number 8 as a leader. Is that correct? [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 10:34, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:We've discussed this a bit, and basically A) She might have just been the leader of ''that specific group'' more probably B) It was just a really fun excuse to insert "By Your Command" into dialog.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:21, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:This is, in fact, already noted in the article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:02, 2 March 2006 (CST)

==The next four models==

''It would be interesting to see whether the four models created after Number Eight act more or less "human" than she.''

I don't think it's ever established that the model numbers reflect the order they were built in. I'm just curious if it was ever stated that Number Eight would predate Nine through Twelve. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 18:35, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: The method behind the numbering scheme used by the Cylons was never established. Personally, I believe that each model number corresponds to a personality type observed by the Cylons. (Basically, as RDM said, the Cylons said "oh, there's twelve of you [humans]" and made models based on that assessment.) Given this, the models could have been made in any numerical order; Number Six could have been first, while Number Eight could have been made second, and etc. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:40, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: With that said, realistically speaking, RDM and his team probably didn't come up with any numbering scheme in any specific order. After all, Number Six is a homage to ''The Prisoner''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:42, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:::What would the connection between the personality type and the number be? Why would the Cylons arbitrarily say, "This is the sixth kind of person." Doesn't it make more sense for the number to correspond to the order of "birth", especially in the light of the phrasing "There are twelve models. I'm Number Six." Even if the Cylons did label a certain personality type as the "sixth", it would then make the most sense for them to create that model sixth. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:01, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Honestly, I don't know. It's just an idea -- an idea that has no more or less weight than model numbers reflecting the order they were born (or built) in. That is ultimately my point, as well as the point Alpha's endeavoring to make as well, if I'm correct. As I mentioned, Number Six was a homage to ''The Prisoner'' and I honestly don't believe the writers came up with a definitive numbering system. Perhaps they came up with something later on during Season 1 and Season 2, though, I honestly don't know. And that's just my thought on the subject, though ultimately there's nothing for (or against) the model number order, and I honestly don't think this speculation should be included in this entry since it's baseless thus far. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 19:28, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

== Other Copies ==

The article states that
:It is possible that [the Eight seen at the end of the Miniseries] is the same individual as the Caprica copy. While, at the time the Miniseries had been filmed, there were no plans to have Tahmoh Penikett reprise the role of Helo, the ending of the Miniseries forms a link to "33", establishing that the Cylons have developed a plan for Helo's presence on Caprica.
This seems like total speculation to me and I don't quite understand how the end of the Miniseries establishs that the Cylons have developed a plan for Helo. Unless there is some kind of source for this, it should be deleted. [[User:Enemy|Enemy]] 21:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)
: Agreed. Let's remove it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 22:07, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Younger?==

I was wondering why the article refers to Sharon as the youngest model of the seven cylons we know? Is it because the actress is younger than her fellow cylon actors or because of an assumption based on her model number? If it's the former it doesn't really have anything to do with the cylon characters actual ages. If it's the latter I feel we should keep in mind that Leoben, Simon and Cavil model numbers are still unknown. They could easily be some combination of 9,10,11 or 12.

I think a slight rewording is in order. Something that indicates she APPEARS to be younger than the other cylons without actually saying she IS younger. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.
:I initially wrote that, as I was looking for attributes applying for all Eights. But you are right, it's certainly less than ideal, especially since a Cylon's outer appearance might not be related to the age of his or her consciousness at all. Feel free to change it. [[User:Sloan|Sloan]] 09:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)

==Possibly non-canon death of "Athena 2"==
Should the entry on the Eight with Athena's memories mention that she was killed by a One in a deleted scene in [[The Hub]]? In the podcast, RDM strongly implies that the deleted scene shouldn't be considered canon, however he also says that she should be presumed dead or at least out of the picture. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

==Eight's 'Rank' increased?==

I have noticed that after the start of the cylon civil war, with the reduction of "Leader-Models" number eight has certainly had to assume more authority within the rebel cylon command. With Natalie and the Sixes commanding initially, but then after Natalie's death "Athena 2" steps up and for 'The Hub' episode seems to be the sole leader of the Cylons for that period of time. Once D'anna returns the command structure returns near to how it previously was before the civil war, but when D'anna checks out the viper's signal in 'Revelations', and eight accompanies her to verify and i suspect, aid her in what decision she should make, which to me shows that the eights still remain high up in cylon command.-- [[User:Centurion|Centurion]] 08:36, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Template:Characters (RDM Cylons)

2008-06-17T09:42:29Z

Centurion: Added in Resurrection Hub

<div align="center">
{| id="cylons" class="messagebox"
|-
| align="center" | '''[[Portal:Cylons|Cylons]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-Imagined Series]]'''
| <small>{{navbar|type=mini|Characters (RDM Cylons)}}</small>
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" |
'''Robotic versions''':
[[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]] |
[[Cylon Centurion]]
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" | '''[[Humanoid Cylon|Humanoid versions]]'''
Significant Seven:
[[Number One]] |
[[Number Two]] |
[[Number Three]] |
[[Number Four]] |
[[Number Five]] |
[[Number Six]] |
[[Number Eight]]
<br>[[Final Five]]:
[[Saul Tigh]] |
[[Galen Tyrol]] |
[[Samuel Anders]] |
[[Tory Foster]] |
[[Final Cylon]]
<br>
Cylon/human hybrids:
[[Hera Agathon]] |
[[Nicholas Tyrol]]
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" |
'''Craft and baseship hybrids''':
[[Raider (RDM)|Raider]] |
[[Heavy Raider]] |
[[Basestar (RDM)|Basestar]] |
[[Resurrection Ship]] |
[[Resurrection Hub]] |
[[Cylon freighter (RDM)|Freighter]] |
[[Cylon reconnaissance drone|Reconaissance drone]] |
[[Hybrid]] |
[[First Hybrid]]
|}
</div>
<noinclude>[[Category:Navigational Infobox|Characters (RDM Cylons)]]</noinclude>

Revelations

2008-06-15T07:42:15Z

Centurion: Rewrote some of the wiki code to work (Cylon Control Room) and replaced Number Two with One in the Questions section.

{{Episode Data
| image=4x10 - Revelations - Promo 1.jpg
| title= Revelations
| season= 4
| episode= 10
| forumthread= 1300
| extra=Mid-Season Cliffhanger<br/>Extra Act<br/>No Teaser
| guests=
| writer=[[Bradley Thompson]] <br/>
[[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| production=412
| rating=
| US airdate=13 June 2008
| CAN airdate=13 June 2008
| UK airdate=17 June 2008
| dvd=
| oldpopulation= 39673
| population=39665
| prev= [[The Hub]]
| next= [[Sometimes a Great Notion]]
| imdb=0993911
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Lead by [[Number Three]], the band of rebel Cylons hold President Roslin and ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> pilots hostage while attempting to lure the "Watchtower Four" out of hiding. Meanwhile, [[Kara Thrace]]'s Viper may hold a previously undiscovered clue to finding [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].''

== Summary ==

=== Act 1 ===
{{cleanup}}
*Lee is in William Adama's office, looking up an illustration of the [[Temple of Aurora]] on Earth, as described by Pythia. Kara walks in an greets him, and they briefly discuss the temple, and the absence of William Adama and Laura Roslin.
*Lee comments on how both he and Tigh are intimidated by Adama's chair.
*Kara talks about how Leoben stated that, for children to reach their full potention, their parents have to die.
*In the [[Basestar command|Basestar control room]], Roslin, William Adama, D'Anna and Leoben discuss the plans to return the Final Five. D'Anna mentions that only four in the fleet, and refuses to provide answers when Laura questions her about the fifth's location. When Adama asks for their names, D'Anna expresses skepticism, suggesting that the Colonials may kill them, Roslin points out that the Colonials them because they know the way to Earth, Leoben recommends co-operation and D'Anna refutes him, citing the failure of co-operation on New Caprica.
*D'Anna announces that she will hold the Colonials on the ship hostage until the Final Four are safely aboard the basestar, and there is a standoff between the Colonials and the Centurions, Roslin tells Adama to stand down and he repeats the order.
*D'Anna tells Adama to accompany her to Galactica on a Raptor, he refuses, but Roslin tells him to go, and whispers to them that if the Cylons get the four, they get earth, and he can't allow that to happen, even if he has to blow the ship to hell.
*In [[CIC]] Gaeta accidentally knocks over a bottle of pills, he expresses frustration and uses crutches to head towards the pills, however Dualla picks up the pill bottle, handing it to him, and he thanks her.
*Tigh asks Gaeta if he wishes to be relieved, he declines and takes a drink.
*Tigh notices the baseship and a Raptor.
*In the hangar, Adama and D'Anna step out of the Raptor.
*Anders mentions to Tyrol that D'Anna may not be able to identify them.
*William Adama greets his son.
*The final four stare at D'Anna, and D'Anna seems to stare at each of the final four.
*William Adama and D'Anna explain the situation. D'Anna says that she is already in contact with the four, and that all the fleet needs to do is not interfere with shuttle traffic.
*The Adamas agree to D'Anna's terms.
*As D'Anna is about to leave, Tory Foster states that Laura Roslin needs her medication, and she needs to make sure she's alright.
*Saul Tigh objects, stating that they can't give the Cylons more hostages.
*Foster insists on going, and the Adamas agree.
*The Adamas, Tigh and Starbuck discuss a plan to rescue the hostages, and mentions Roslin's recommendation, telling Lee that it's his call. Lee agrees.

=== Act 2 ===
{{cleanup}}
*The Adamas, Athena, Starbuck and Tigh discuss plans for the rescue, Dualla is also present. Tigh expresses skepticism, saying there have to be other options, and Starbuck sarcastically comments that the four could give themselves up.
*On the basestar, Tory Foster walks behind D'Anna and an Eight, as they pass a Centurion, Tory looks at it, and the Centurion looks towards them after they pass.
*Upon reaching the Basestar control room, D'Anna announces that one of the final five has arrived. Leoben expresses doubt, D'Anna attests that she saw her in her vision, and Tory smiles.
*In another room, Roslin bandadges Baltar and he thanks her for not killing her, Roslin responds by telling him that she told Adama to destroy the basestar if they get the four.
*Foster walks in with a Six, greeting them and brining Roslin her medication, Roslin thanks her, and asks how she was able to do so, and Tory says that she came with D'Anna to be with her people.
*Baltar attests that he knew, at least subconsciously, that she was one of the final five.
*When asked if she had any idea, Roslin says no, and Tory tells her it might be worth pondering other things she's been wrong about, then stars to walk out.
*Roslin tells Tory to stop, and asks her to convince D'Anna to release the hostages, Tory says she's done taking orders from her.
*A body flies out of the baseship, in CIC, Lee receives a transmission form D'Anna, who announces that there has been a change of plans, that she has executed the first hostage, and that she will continue to execute hostages every quarter hour until they have the four. Lee tries to reason with D'Anna, attesting that she's not giving them a chance and they are co-operating, but Dualla states that she has terminated the transmission. Lee okays the rescue mission.
*In the hangar, as the pilots and deck crew prepare for the mission, Tyrol begins hearing [[the music]], heavily distorted by screeching and static.
*In a [[pilot ready rooms|pilot ready room]], an Starbuck and Athena brief the pilots, Anders likewise hears the music.
*Tigh in CIC and Foster in the Basestar control room likewise hear the distorted music, Foster falls into Leoben's arms, he asks her what's wrong, and she says she's "hearing it again".
*Anders, Tigh and Tyrol are drawn to [[Starbuck's Viper]], Tyrol suggests that something about the Viper has changed, and Anders suggests they get Starbuck, Tigh agrees, then walks out.
*Tigh walks into William Adama's office, telling him to scrub the mission. Adama asks if Tigh has another option. Tigh confesses that he has known he is a Cylon since the [[Ionian Nebula]], and he should've told him but he didn't have teh guts. Adama expresses doubt, suggesting that he could've been brainwashed on New Caprica and says they should see Cottle. Tigh says he should've airlocked himself when he found out, and suggests that D'Anna will back down if he is used as a hostage.

=== Act 3 ===
{{cleanup}}
*As [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] take Tigh to the airlock, William Adama rampages thorugh his office and drinks heavily.
*As Bill cries, Lee attempts to comfort him. Bill says he can't kill Tigh, and Lee promises to handle things.
*In the airlock, Lee interrogates Tigh, demanding to know who the other Cylons are.
*Dualla announces that D'Anna is on the line, lee threatens to kill Tigh if she harms one of the hostages, and says that she has ten minutes before he kills him.
*Lee tells Tigh to give him the identities of the rest of the final four in order to save the fleet.
*Around Starbuck's Viper, Kara expresses doubt about Anders and Tyrol's suspicion regarding the viper. Marines arest Anders and Tyrol, when questioned by Starbuck, Sergeant Harder says that they're Cylons like the XO. Kara questions Anders, Tyrol tells him to tell her, and Anders tells her it's true. As he is dragged away, ANders insists that something is diffent about the Viper, Kara tells him to shut up.
*On the basestar, an Eight and two Centurions force the captured pilots down a hallway, Hot Dog tells the pilots to fall back, and the Eight threatens to shoot them if they don't keep moving.
*In the airlock, Anders concludes that Tigh told Lee that they were Cylons. Lee orders Dualla to get the baseship on the line.
*Starbuck gets into her raptor.
*On the baseship, Roslin and Baltar hear the hostages and Centurions. A Two walks in and Roslin asks what's going on. The Two says that D'Anna is about to start executing more hostages, Roslin requests that she be taken to D'Anna. Baltar isists that D'Anna won't listen to her, and that he be taken instead because he was with her when she had the vision in the [[Temple of the Five]]], Roslin agrees.
*Lee tells D'Anna that he has Anders and Tyrol are in the airlock, and demans that D'Anna stand down.
*Starbuck begins activating her Raptor's systems.
*Foster tells D'Anna that she knows Lee, and he will back down if pressured, and D'Anna gives an order to target nuclear weapons on the civilian fleet. Baltar walks in and begins begins talking to D'Anna.
*Starbuck continues to activate her raptor, and detects a signal.
*Baltar argues that coincion won't work becauese he's too similar to his father, while Foster argues that he's bluffing.
*Dualla tells Lee that the baseship's nukes have gone hot, Lee and Dualla conclude that the fleet couldn't spool up their jump drives quickly enough to escape before the Cylons fire. Lee orders the Harder remove everyone except Tigh from the tube.
*Baltar suggests that [[God (RDM)|God]] may have brought D'Anna back for a different purpose, to end the conflict peacefully. D'Anna argues that the Colonials will never forgive the Cylons for [[fall of the Twelve Colonies|what they did to the Twelve Colonies]], and gives an order to proceed.
*As the launch tube door closes, Starbuck runs through the ship.
*Baltar argues to D'Anna that brute force did not work for the Cylons on [[New Caprica]] or the [[algae planet]], and that it will not work now.
*Lee asks Dualla for the key and begins the process of activating the launch tube.
*An Eight announces that they have weapons lock on the Colonial ships.
*Tigh tells Lee to stop hesitating and flush the airlock.
*As Lee is about to push the button, Kara runs in, telling Lee to stop, saying that the Cylons just gave them [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].

=== Act 4 ===
{{cleanup}}
*Lee sits in Starbuck's viper, recognizing a Colonial emergency locator signal, and states that no other [[wireless]] in the fleet is picking it up. Kara argues to a skeptical Lee that it must be a signal from Earth, insisting that some higher power is orchestrating events for a purpose and wants the Colonials to find Earth with the Cylons.
*Kara, Lee, the final four, D'Anna, marines and Centurions stand around Starbuck's Viper and an Eight sits inside.
*They discuss the signal. Lee says that he decided to share the information with the Cylons rather than jump away because it would only lead to another confrontation, argues that peace is possible and says that he has granted the final four an amnesty.
*D'Anna agrees to release the hostages.
*Lee shows his father the location of Earth, asking for orders, Roslin walks in and says she wants to see him pick up the first fistful of earth, he walks away saying that he'll be back.
*Lee talks to Roslin about stepping down, and he praises him on resolving the crisis, and says the fleet will need that kind of leadership in the years to come.
*Admiral Adama returns in uniform, saying they should find Earth, Lee states that he has been working on a recon mission with Kara, the Admiral says that everyone should go together, that they don't have anywhere else to go, and that the alliance will fall apart if they hesitate too long.

=== Act 5 ===

== Notes ==

* This episode is the mid-season cliffhanger for the first ten episodes of [[Season 4 (2008-09)|Season 4]]. The conclusion to the cliffhanger, "[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]", will not air until 2009.
* The episode was given an advance screening in Los Angeles on Wednesday, June 11th, in order to draw attention for the upcoming Emmy Award nominations. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://syfyportal.com/news425104.html|title='Battlestar Galactica' Hosting Free Screening In L.A.}}</ref>

== Analysis ==
* How [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] came to the state which the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] found it in is uncertain. Given that the landing party tests the soil with a Geiger counter, and the ruins they come across appear to be from a nuclear blast, it is likely that some nuclear event occurred on Earth. Together with the clear remnants of a modern civilization, this means that the series is set in the future and not the past (barring that is is set in an alternate universe).

* The area the landing party arrives at appears to be the Brooklyn side of New York City. The landing party is next to a broad river and across that river to the left is a wide bay. The other shore appears to be the edge of Lower Manhattan with a destroyed skyline of buildings. The camera pans to the right over what is ostensibly the East River until the last two seconds of the episode where at the far right edge of the screen stands a wrecked structure with a heavily abbreviated roadway. It appears to be the East Tower (Brooklyn side) of the Brooklyn Bridge. However, it should be noted that the information on this is incomplete. For instance, many speculations as to the gas giant that [[Kara Thrace]] sees in her journey from Earth (as first explained in "[[He That Believeth In Me]]") claimed that the giant was [[w:Jupiter|Jupiter]], when this was [[Faith|later disproved]].

* As D'Anna airlocks one prisoner during the course of the episode, the population of the Fleet when it arrives at Earth is 39,664, not counting the Significant Seven Cylons who have now joined them.

== Questions ==

* Is [[Number Three]] honest in her claim that there are only four of the Final Five in the [[Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]? If so, where is the fifth and last Cylon? If she's lying, is it because she still harbors distrust for her compatriots and the humans?
* What of the other [[Number One|Ones]], [[Number Four|Fours]], and [[Number Five|Fives]]?
* What happened to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]?
* Will the other Cylons find the Fleet and the rebels, as well as Earth? If so, will they finish [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|what they]] [[Cylon Civil War|started]]?

== Official Statements ==

  

<br>

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

 

*''Admiral Adama is in a high degree of distress to the point of breakdown and has passed out drunk onto the deck of his quarters. he has just ordered Colonel Saul Tigh, now known publicly to be a Final Five Cylon after his confession to Adama to be used as a bargaining chip in the hostage crisis with the Rebel Cylons; and to his possible death. Lee finds him and drags his father's sobbing form to a bulkhead where he cradles his father from behind.''

:'''Adama:''' [Crying, Sobbing, dispair...]

:'''Lee''' [voice quavering]: Dad listen...No one suspected, no one! Not with his record. Not what he did on New Caprica. His eye... What happened to his wife... Come on, let's get up.

:'''Adama:''' What have I done? [breathlessly] All of the people I've sent to die? For what? For what!?!

:'''Lee''' [quietly] For Earth...

:'''Adama''' [angrily]: There is no Earth. [Sobs] It is a frakkin' joke! There is no Earth! [Sobs]

:'''Lee:''' Okay dad, listen to me...[firmer and takes his father face between his hands] Listen to me!! Pull it together!!

:'''Adama:''' I can't...

:'''Lee''' [frustrated]: Yes you can! Come on!

:'''Adama:''' I can't....

:'''Lee''' [frustrated] Yes you ca...

:'''Adama:''' I can't.... I can't kill him... I can't kill the bastard! I can't....

:'''Lee:''' Okay, okay dad [he cradles his father's face]

:'''Adama:''' I can't....

:'''Lee:''' Its....Its gonna be okay....Its gonna be okay... I'll... I'll take care of it.. I'll take care of it [kisses his father's forehead].

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
* [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]] / [[Leoben Conoy]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as Lieutenant [[Anastasia Dualla]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hotdog" Costanza]]
* [[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as [[Jeanne]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Finn R. Devitt]] as [[Nicholas Tyrol]] (credited as "Baby Nicky")
* [[Don Thompson]] as [[Anthony Figurski]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant [[Hoshi]]
* [[Alexandra Thomas]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Heather Doerksen]] as [[Unnamed Galactica and Pegasus crew (RDM)#Blonde female Marine|Surveillance Marine]] 
* [[Leo Li Chiang]] as [[Tattooed pilot]] (uncredited)

== References ==

<div style="font-size: 85%;"><references /></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes_written_by_Bradley_Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes_written_by_David_Weddle]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[ms:Revelations]]

Humanoid Cylon

2008-06-08T18:59:48Z

Centurion:

{{cleanup}}

:''For information on the robotic Cylons of the [[Original Series]], see [[Cylons (TOS)]]. For information on a human-appearing Cylon from ''[[Galactica 1980]]'', see [[Andromus]].''

:''This article is capitalized for technical reasons. The correct term is "humanoid Cylon" and is not a proper noun.''

[[Image:CyAg.jpg|thumb|300px|Cylon copies of (from left) [[Number Six]] (two copies), [[Number Two]], and [[Number Five]] (two copies), at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]]]
'''Humanoid Cylons'''<ref>Viewers initially lacked an authentic term to call the humanoid Cylons during Season 1. Here on the ''Battlestar Wiki'', the [[BW:TERM|descriptive term]] "Humano-Cylon" was used for a time. Dialogue in several episodes throughout Season 2 has canonically established "Cylon agent" to refer specifically to Cylon infiltrators, but since [[Sharon Agathon]] works for the Colonials, ''Battlestar Wiki'''s preference is to use "humanoid Cylon" (which [[Tricia Helfer]] often uses in interviews, but apparently more for convenience than an official name). Some of the resistance fighters on Caprica refer to the humanoid Cylons as "skin jobs," an homage to ''[[Wikipedia:Blade Runner|Blade Runner]]''. William Adama refers to them as "humanoid models" in "[[Precipice]]".</ref> are the quintessential [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon form]] in the [[Re-imagined Series]]. These Cylons biologically mimic human form so completely that they are nearly undetectable to current Colonial technologies.

Humanoid Cylons have the capacity to emulate many human physical acts, including sex. They also display convincingly human personalities (affection, jealousy, sadness, anger, sense of humor, religious faith, etc.) This behavior continues even when interacting with other Cylons outside of Colonial scrutiny, clearly establishing that their personalities are genuine.

The humanoid Cylons are responsible for masterminding the complete destruction of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] through their use of sabotage and infiltration.

==Origins==

Following the end of the [[Cylon War]] ([[Miniseries]]), nothing was heard of the Cylons in 40 years.

[[Image:Season 3 Female Cylons.jpg|thumb|150px|Numbers [[Number Six|Six]], [[Number Three|Three]], and [[Number Eight|Eight]]]]
During their forty years of isolation, the Cylons developed or evolved into a ''humanoid form''<ref>The idea of Cylons in humanoid form in ''Battlestar Galactica'' is not new. This concept appeared over 25 years earlier in the episode "[[The Night the Cylons Landed, Part I|The Night the Cylons Landed]]" in the short-lived spinoff of the Original Series, ''[[Galactica 1980]]''. Unlike the humanoid Cylons, however, [[Andromus]] was an [[Wikipedia:Android|android]], akin to the character of [[MemoryAlpha:Data|Data]] from ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]''.</ref>.

The creation of the humanoid Cylon is left to speculation based on series events. While the opening credits claim that the Cylons "evolved", the concept of biological evolution (in the [[Wikipedia:Darwinism|Darwinian fashion]]) is impossible with mechanical beings. The "evolution" is obviously a planned architectural change from the mechanical to the biomechanical for the inherent Cylon design.

The first step in their evolution from pure machines to organic beings was known as the "[[First Hybrid|Hybrid]]." Other [[hybrid]]s were later created to control [[Basestar (RDM)|baseships]] ([[Razor]]). Exactly how the original Cylon, the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]], a sentient robot "evolved" to the humanoid form is uncertain.<ref>Information noted from the start of [[Miniseries]] (the existence of the [[Armistice Station]]) indicates that the original Cylons were not only sentient, but capable of intense emotion. [[William Adama]] confirms that the new robotic successor to the Model 0005 were built by the humanoid Cylons without sentience to avoid the possibility of the new [[Cylon Centurion]] from creating an overthrow attempt at their humanoid masters.</ref> Saul Tigh, a humanoid Cylon, has an apparent age that would place his birth (if he was born) well before the first Cylon War, and possibly even before the creation of the original mechanical Cylon. His military record documents his existence during the war. [[Number Three]]'s conversation with [[Number One]] immediately before she was [[boxing|boxed]] indicates that the humanoid Cylons do not know who programmed them or why.<ref>The final scene of "[[Rapture]]".</ref>

Series information shows that the humanoid Cylons existed in secret for at least two years prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Colonies' destruction]]. This information does not provide concrete evidence as to when the first models were created or how long they have been among the human population. [[Final Five|Some of them]] were among the human population for at least several decades prior to the war.

==Physiology and Psychology==
Humanoid Cylons are visually indistinguishable from humans, down to the cellular level, but not completely at a molecular level. Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] is able to create a [[Cylon detector|detector]] that can distinguish Cylon from human, but rarely used the device to a positive end ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

Each humanoid Cylon has the same face, stature, hair, eye and skin color, gender, apparent age, and other biometrics as all the others of his or her model. This point technically makes each copy a twin of itself, but there are some models that choose to make cosmetic differences. Examples include [[D'Anna Biers]], [[Gina Inviere]], and a Number Six model with black hair ([[Torn]]). In addition, each copy appears to start with the same basic personality, but each personality grows more distinct due to their individual experiences.

Humanoid Cylons can be programmed as 'sleeper agents', who appear to have a low-level Cylon personality that can conduct operations while placing the human sleeper personality "on-hold." [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]] was one such agent ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Most agent copies, particularly [[Number Five|Numbers Five]] [[Number Six|and Six]], assume a human persona but are fully aware of their true nature and behave more or less as a human "spy."

[[Image:Gina catatonic.jpg|thumb|left|The emotionally scarred Number Six copy known as "Gina Inviere".]]
They are susceptible to the same emotional traumas and joys that their human counterparts are, further proving that personalities are a realistic part of their psyche. A case in point is a copy of Number Six, known as [[Gina Inviere]], who is physically and sexually assaulted repeatedly by the crew of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. These repeated assaults lead to Inviere's near-catatonic state at the time ''Pegasus'' discovers the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

Humanoid Cylons can dream, a process that appears to be natural to them<ref>A Number Three speaks casually to Doctor [[Cottle]] about her [[Dodona Selloi|prophetic dreams]] of the child [[Hera Agathon|Hera]] in "[[Exodus, Part I]]".</ref>.

Some or all Cylon female models may have the capacity to bear children seeded by human males ("[[33]]", "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"). The Cylons tested numerous methods of sexual reproduction, yet these failed due to a known flaw in their design. The seven widely known models of Humanoid Cylons cannot reproduce with each other biologically, so in an attempt to subvert this deficiency, they try to interbreed with humans, creating hybrid offspring. "[[Farms]]" were set up across all the occupied Colonies where survivors, specifically, young fertile women of child-bearing age, were rounded up, placed under heavy sedation and turned into "baby machines" through artificial insemination<ref>Ron Moore said there are presumably also farms for male humans, plus ''in vitro'' experiment labs, etc.</ref>. However, this methods have been unsuccessful thus far. Another drastically different approach is taken by attempting to conceive a child through a bond of love. To most of the characters it seems that [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]]'s love-child, [[Hera Agathon|Hera]] is the lone success story of the relatively short history of Cylon sexual reproduction ([[The Farm]]), with the hybrid nature of [[Galen Tyrol]]'s child [[Nicholas Tyrol]] unknown to anyone but the four recently revealed members of the Final Five. More recently, the humanoid Cylons [[Saul Tigh]] (another of the Final Five) and [[Caprica-Six]] have conceived an unborn child.

The bodies of humanoid Cylons sometimes appear to have tremendous stamina and strength, and appear to be designed to destroy or resist commonly dangerous human diseases<ref>The blood from [[Hera Agathon|Hera]]'s fetus destroys the cancer within [[Laura Roslin]]'s body in "[[Epiphanies]]".</ref>, although they are not immune from all contagions<ref>An infection ravages the Cylons in the episode, "[[Torn]]".</ref>. In keeping with their desire to be a better human, however, the Cylons did not or could not further improve on other characteristic design flaws of the human body.<ref>Dr. Cottle complains of birth complications with Caprica-Valerii in the episode, "[[Downloaded]]".</ref> Humanoid Cylons are heavily fortified to resist damage from intense radiation fields that would kill a human after short exposure ([[The Passage]]), but they are still susceptible to damage from [[Ragnar|certain types of radiation]] or trauma ([[Miniseries]]). Despite their resistance to certain forms of energy, humanoid Cylons, unlike the [[Cylon Centurion]], cannot be made "bulletproof" ("[[Precipice]]", "[[Hero]]").

==Cylon Religion==
{{mainarticle|Cylon Religion}}
The Cylon follow a [[Cylon Religion|monotheistic religion]] to varying extents. Fanatical devotion to God is the central part of [[Number Two]]'s character, whilst the [[Number Six|Sixes]], [[Number Three|Threes]] and to a lesser extent the [[Number Eight|Eights]] also seem to have strong faith. The [[Number One]]s appear to be atheistic. [[Number Four|Fours']] and [[Number Five|Fives']] views are not so well known, but they too take the "non-religious side" in the [[Cylon Civil War]].

==Cybernetic Behavior==
[[Image:Valerii_optic_input.jpg|right|120px|thumb|[[Sharon Agathon|Valerii]] interfaces with ''Galactica's'' [[Computers|computer systems]].]]
Upon the death of its body, a humanoid Cylon's consciousness is automatically transferred into another copy of itself. This "[[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]]" is limited by signal integrity and proximity to the Cylon homeworld or a [[Resurrection Ship]] ([[Miniseries]], "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

It appears that all humanoid Cylons share a ''collective knowledge base'' of data from other active or deactivated humanoid Cylons, regardless of their model.<ref>A collective knowledge base works more like an internet chat forum, or even a wiki, which differs from the concept of the collective consciousness as seen in SciFi species such as the Borg in ''Star Trek.'' Writers of the show have indicated this type of "hive mind" is ''not'' employed. Many Cylons are seen describing or detailing events that one of the models experienced but did not participate, such as [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii's]] description of meeting Kara Thrace for the first time--a memory physically experienced not by that Number Eight copy, but [[Sharon Valerii|"Boomer" Valerii]], in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]". When under duress, "Boomer" Valerii is able to tell [[Gaius Baltar]] the number of remaining humanoid Cylons in the Fleet. This information would be impossible to know without a collective knowledge base to all humanoid Cylons ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])</ref>

Also as a cylon downloads after being killed it is apparent that the cylon's memories are automatically stored for future use such as uploading them into another copy of that specific model. Once these memories are implanted they become as real to the cylon as their own original memories. This download of memories seems to be involuntary as [[Athena]] had no reason to do such a thing ([[The Hub]]).

Their psychology is based on what they simply refer to as "[[projection]]". Essentially an enhanced form of a self-induced and controlled hallucination, projection is how they choose to see the world around them, in any form they wish, whenever they wish. For example, if a Cylon were standing in a hallway, they could choose to see it as a forest filled with birds, trees, and sunlight. This mode of visualization is pleasing to humanoid Cylons ([[Torn]])<ref>[[Gaius Baltar]]'s dreamlike interactions with his [[Virtual beings|virtual Number Six]] is strikingly similar to Cylon projection. See the article, [[Baltar as Cylon speculation]] for more on this issue.</ref>.

Although they cannot do so remotely or wirelessly, humanoid Cylons can interface with a [[Computers in the Re-imagined Series|computer system]] or computer network by photo-electrical means. They can perform this through subdermal physical contact if required ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]) or, preferably, through a [[data-font|Cylon data-font]]<ref>[[Sharon Agathon]] steals back the Fleet's [[launch key]]s by infiltrating a Cylon base by using a Cylon data-font. Humanoid Cylons are seen operating a basestar in the episode "[[Torn]]" by touching an optical pad that illuminates these arm interfaces.</ref>. This might be possible through the use of bio-luminescent and photosensitive cells in their hands.

[[Image:Ander's red eye.jpg|thumb|left|Anders's "red eye" moment.]]
The presence of a water-like fluid as an integral part of the basestar, the ability to interface photo-electronically through subdermal and dermal contact, and the fact that humanoid Cylon are anatomically indistinguishable from human beings, implies that the techniques used in their creation are advanced enough to incorporate cybernetic functions into their design without the use of specific internal structures other than human-like organs.

After being "stared at" by a [[Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raider]], [[Samuel Anders]]'s right eye briefly flashes red, the Raider responds to this apparent [[IFF]] procedure by flying away, and a Cylon fleet attacking the Colonials retreats ([[He That Believeth In Me]]).

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== Known Cylon Models ==
[[Image:Cylonagentdossier.jpg|right|200px]]
There are twelve models of humanoid Cylons ([[Miniseries]]), representing twelve personality archetypes that the Cylons have witnessed in humanity. These can be divided into two separate groups, the "Significant Seven"<ref name="sign7">{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Frak Party Q and A|act=|id=Sig7|timestamp=19:14|totalrunning=78:27}}</ref> and the "Final Five".
According to show producers, the two groups are "fundamentally different."<ref name ="different"/> The religion, origin, physiology and cybernetic properties of the Final Five remain largely unrevealed.

The twelve models have numerical designations, however only those of the Significant Seven have been revealed so far. With the exceptions of Three and Six, most models are referred to by their "human names", even by other Cylons. There appears to be no significance to any of the specific numbers assigned to the different Cylons.<ref>On [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ Ronald D. Moore's blog on Scifi.com], he stated that "Number Six was specifically a homage to 'The Prisoner,' but the rest [of the humanoid Cylons] were assigned their numbers randomly."</ref>

===Significant Seven===

Seven models revealed to the viewers as Cylons have also been revealed to the central Colonial characters within the first two seasons. There are many copies of each model, although the specific number of copies per model has not been specified; although a [[Number One]] known as Cavil has stated it is in the millions. The identities of these mechanized copies are determined by their model and each model is unique ([[Six of One]]).

==== [[Number One]] ====

[[Image:Pensieve One.jpg|thumb|left|Number One/Cavil]]
One of the Cavil models (Number One) poses as a Colonial [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Brothers|brother]], a lay clergyman in the Fleet.

Cavil models do not appear to subscribe to overall theology of the Cylons, but adhere to group consensus, and often are persuasive leaders. Cavils have displayed a condescending attitude toward the beliefs of the other six known Cylons at times.

In several instances, the Cavils advocate dark, draconian solutions to the insurgency on [[New Caprica]] that reveal a militant zeal equaling that of Numbers Three and Five.

One Cavil model in particular seems to be in something approaching a leadership role on one of the basestars, as seen in the episode" [[Six of One]]". This model assumes some authority and wields influence over the others, yet decisions are still reached through majority vote. However, this is soon overturned by the rebellion of the Cylons led by [[Natalie]], a [[Number Six]], and the body of this Number One is killed by Centurions.
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==== [[Number Two]] ====

[[Image:Leoben2.jpg|thumb|right|Number Two/Leoben Conoy]]
Leoben Conoy (Number Two) is the fourth model seen by viewers (although viewers would not know until the end of the [[Miniseries]] that they had already seen the third introduced humanoid Cylon, Sharon Valerii). The Conoy model has shown to be mystically oriented--making references to the oneness of the universe, the illusion of time, etc.--and claims to be prescient on some level, albeit with a known propensity for intermixing truth with falsehoods. He is first discovered on [[Ragnar Station]], claiming to be a scavenger and arms dealer ([[Miniseries]]).

The Conoy models also appear obsessed with matters of mating, bonding, and reproduction, as demonstrated by a particular model's fascination and obsession with [[Kara Thrace]] ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", "[[Occupation]]", "[[Precipice]]" and "[[Exodus, Part II]]").

Conoy can be likened to the serpent of the [[w:Genesis|Genesis]] tale in the Earth [[w:Bible|Christian Bible]], taunting people with knowledge, then watching as the negative consequences come into devastating fruition. Leoben copies have likely been encountered by the [[Caprica Resistance]], as [[Samuel Anders]] recites in jest some comments made by another Leoben copy captured in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[The Farm]]").
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==== [[Number Three]] ====

[[Image:Number Three.jpg|thumb|left|Number Three/D'Anna Biers]]
First seen posing as a reporter from the [[Fleet News Service]], this model is revealed to be a Cylon at the end of "[[Final Cut]]" when a second copy is shown living on Caprica. Threes seem to be the most calculating and duplicitous models shown to-date, even manipulating and deceiving other models if they feel warranted. The copy that tried to [[Boxed|box]] Sharon Valerii exhibited these characteristics strongly in the episode, "[[Downloaded]]".

This model's status as a Cylon is unknown to the Colonials until either shortly after the rescue of the surviving members of the [[Caprica Resistance]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]), or after the Cylon occupation of [[New Caprica]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]].)

After the Threes defy other Cylon models in their attempt to discern the identity of the [[Final Five|five missing Cylon humanoids]], the other Cylons conclude that the Three model has an inherent flaw that threatens their overall reliability. After the failure on the [[algae planet]] to gather information on the path to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], the Cylons have all Number Three models [[boxing|boxed]] indefinitely.

The first encountered copy of this model appeared under the alias "[[D'Anna Biers]]", and the D'Anna name is used inconsistently to describe the model as a whole.
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==== [[Number Four]] ====

[[Image:Simon Farm2.JPG|thumb|right|Number Four/Simon]]
The Simon model (Number Four) is first encountered by [[Kara Thrace]] on Cylon-occupied [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]]. Posing as a doctor, this Simon is actually involved with the Cylon hybridization program. Simon resembles a tall, somewhat thin middle-aged black man who speaks in a comforting strong voice ([[The Farm]]) Unlike other models, Simon does not seem to have many military aspects to his physical or mental configuration, and is easily overcome by a wounded Thrace. Simon may be a model based primarily on human intellectualism and logic<ref>A Simon expresses the moral dilemmas of rescuing a crippled basestar as having no scientific answer in "[[Torn]]".</ref>. It is unknown if a Simon model infiltrated the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] prior to the occupation of [[New Caprica]]. In any case, the model is now known to the general populace, many humans likely saw a Simon model during the occupation.
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==== [[Number Five]] ====

[[Image:Doral.jpg|thumb|left|Number Five/Aaron Doral]]
This model attempts to sow the seeds of discontent or confusion, particularly during crucial life-threatening situations, and endeavors to undermine authority that threatens his objectives ([[Miniseries]]). Number Five models are more covert, assuming an ordinary "everyman" appearance that's blended in what may seem to be insignificant behind-the-scenes issues (such as converting ''Galactica'' into a museum). Of all the models thus far, the Number Five models are the most militant, fanatic and consistent in message and objectives to the Cylon objectives, whether he is dispassionately discussing the fate of humanity with his comrades or attempting to kill or maim Colonials in a suicide bomb attack ([[Litmus]]).

Viewers first meet a Number Five during a tour of ''Galactica'' with other Colonial citizens (possibly the press) at the start of the Miniseries, but are not sure of the Cylon's true identity until the Miniseries' conclusion.

Copies of this model have appeared under the alias "[[Aaron Doral]]".
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==== [[Number Six]] ====

[[Image:Number Six.jpg|thumb|right|Number Six]]
This is the first humanoid Cylon model shown to viewers at the start of the [[Miniseries]].

Stunningly beautiful, promiscuous and sensual, this model utilizes the human need and desire for sexual relations to her advantage. She tends to be very religious and monotheistic. Number Six desires to know what it is to be alive. There is something inherently enigmatic about her, more so than with the other models. Sixes have been described as "usually so hardcore", referring to their tendencies towards violence.

Sixes are the only model who appear not to have one particular "human name", copies have appeared under the aliases "[[Shelly Godfrey]]", "[[Gina Inviere]]", "[[Natalie]]", and "[[Caprica-Six|Caprica]]" (in honor of her work on Caprica towards the destruction of the Colonies). [[Virtual Six]], whom only [[Gaius Baltar]] can see is a mainstay of the cast, and is clearly the dominant party in their "relationship".

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==== [[Number Eight]] ====

[[Image:Eight.jpg|thumb|left|Number Eight/Sharon]]
Number Eight is generally a saboteur designed to infiltrate Colonial military units and is likely programmed to use any Colonial munitions to cause havoc ([[Water]]). The Number Eight model is the closest witnessed humanoid Cylon model to show its abilities as a soldier. This model has shown naiveté in many matters. She is apparently not as religious as other Cylon models, but has demonstrated that she can love, and is capable of being impregnated by a human ("[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]").

She may be "defective", as the Cylon programming within the sleeper agent known as "Boomer" on ''Galactica'' conflicts multiple times with its human personality ([[Water]]). Also, the fully aware Sharon Valerii found by [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] on Caprica switches alliances from Cylon to Colonial after falling in love with Helo and aids the Colonials [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|for a time]] (several episodes, most notably "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]"). Number Eight is the third humanoid Cylon introduced during the [[Miniseries]]. However, viewers do not discover her true identity until the very end of the Miniseries when a second copy of Sharon Valerii appears at [[Ragnar Anchorage]] while retrieving an abandoned copy of Number Five.

A copy of this model has appeared under the name "[[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]]." One copy, [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon "Athena" Agathon]], has defected from the Cylon and has joined the Colonial Fleet, generally replacing her "Boomer" counterpart as a [[Raptor]] pilot.
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===Final Five===

{{Mainarticle|Final Five}}

The identities of the remaining five Cylon models remained a mystery long after the revelation of the identities of the "Significant Seven".

In "[[Torn]]", [[Caprica-Six]] mentions to [[Gaius Baltar]] that the Cylons do not talk about the missing five humanoid Cylons. In the same episode, Baltar confirms that, during his time with the Cylons on occupied New Caprica and on a basestar, he only saw the first seven models. It is later revealed that the Significant Seven themselves do not know (or have repressed) the identities of these final five models, until the [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula|battle at the Ionian nebula]] in which the [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]] identify one of the members of the Final Five, causing a divide between the Seven.

In "[[Crossroads, Part II]]" four major characters discover they are Cylons: [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Saul Tigh]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]]. They were previously unaware of their nature, and this information is limited only to themselves. While shocked by their discovery, they all remain loyal to humanity.<ref name="different">Ron Moore noted in his podcasts and interviews that these characters are "fundamentally different" Cylons, where much of what was defined as a humanoid Cylon may not apply to these models.</ref>

<gallery>
Image:Tyrol Cylon.jpg|[[Galen Tyrol]]
Image:Anders_Cylon.jpg|[[Samuel Anders]]
Image:Tighlon.jpg|[[Saul Tigh]]
Image:Tory Cylon.JPG|[[Tory Foster]]
</gallery>

==== The Final Cylon model ====
{{seealso|Humanoid Cylon speculation}}
There remains one final Cylon model to be revealed. During a Q&A session on the official Sci Fi Channel ''Battlestar Galactica'' forum, Ron Moore notes that he has already decided who the last Cylon is, and has already left clues as to who it is<ref>[http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2270103&st=0&p=3041263&#entry3041263 20 Answers - SCI FI FORUMS] Retrieved 03-27-2007</ref>.

==Human/Cylon Hybrids==

Conceived by the Eight believed to be [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], the infant [[Hera Agathon]] is the first known human/Cylon hybrid<ref>These beings should not be confused with the living computer of a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]], also called a [[Hybrid]].</ref>.

[[Gaius Baltar]]'s internal [[Number Six]] regularly insists that Hera is actually the child of herself and Baltar, though there is no physical reason yet presented to justify that claim.

For some time Hera was hidden away from both humans and Cylons, and believed to be dead by her parents. President [[Laura Roslin]] had the baby hidden with [[Maya]] as her adoptive parent. Despite Roslin's attempts to protect the child on [[New Caprica]], Hera is later found by the Cylons ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

After Hera's mother discovers that her daughter is alive, she uses her ability to [[Resurrection (RDM)|download]] to transport to the Cylon ships, and manages to convince [[Caprica-Six]] to return the child to ''Galactica'' for medical treatment for a possible intestinal blockage, which the Cylon doctors, lacking pediatric knowledge, were unable to comprehend ([[Rapture]]).

A child, [[Kacey]], is presented by a Number Two model to [[Kara Thrace]] as an hybrid offspring purportedly created with their genetic material in the episode "[[Occupation]]". The Cylons' ruse is revealed when Kacey's human mother later claims the child ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

[[Nicholas Tyrol]] is also a Cylon/human hybrid ([[Crossroads, Part II]], <ref>{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Frak Party Q and A|act=|id=hybridnick|timestamp=22:41|totalrunning=78:27}}</ref>).

== Speculated Infiltrators ==

:''See the [[Humanoid Cylon speculation]] article for analysis on characters and their likelihood of being a humanoid Cylon, based on episode information.''

== Notes ==
*[[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]] stated in an interview with ''[http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml TheFandom.com]'', "There is no original human Sharon. The idea is not that there was likely an original human model that they were copied from. The idea was that these models of Cylon were sort of developed out of their own study of us. The Cylons on some level looked at humanity and said 'You know what? There's really only 12 of you.' If these are the 12, and sort of if you look at them they each represent different archetypes of what humanity is." This established as canon that:
** There are precisely twelve ''human'' Cylon models. The other varieties of Cylon spacecraft or fighters are not factored into this count of 12 models.
** '''None''' of the humanoid Cylons were ''ever'' an actual human.
** The twelve models are based on archetypes determined by the Cylons that form what they perceive were the specific kinds of human behavior and/or personality, distilled into twelve varieties.
* A [[Cylon Centurion]] cannot distinguish the differing versions of one model from another ([[Precipice]]). For example, if faced with two differing Number Eight models, [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon "Athena" Agathon]], it would not be able to discriminate between them without external aid.
* While Centurions may not be able to tell the difference between different versions of the same model, other humanoid Cylons do not have this problem ("[[Downloaded]]", "[[Exodus, Part I]]", "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", "[[Six of One]]").
* According to [[Cavil]] in "[[Exodus, Part I]]", the pain associated with each successive [[Resurrection (RDM)|download]] is worse than the one before. The first download feels like little more than a headache, but the third feels like someone has rushed a white hot poker through the head. However, this might be a subjective feeling that varies with model and circumstances. [[Sharon Agathon]]'s report in "[[Scar]]" supports Cavil, but a [[Number Three]] considers her last download to be rejuvenating ([[Downloaded]]).
*Some characters refer to humanoid Cylons as "skinjobs". This is a reference to the film ''[[w:Blade Runner|Blade Runner]]'' in which [[Edward James Olmos]] has a supporting role. In the movie "skinjob" is used as an insult to [[w:Replicant|replicants]], which are bio-mechanical robots made to look human.

== See also ==

* [[Cylon Culture]]
* [[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:Descriptive terms]]
[[Category:RDM]]

{{featured article candidate previous}}

[[de:Humanoider Zylon]]
[[ms:Cylon manusia]]

Humanoid Cylon

2008-06-08T18:58:06Z

Centurion: Added info about cylon memories from "The Hub"

{{cleanup}}

:''For information on the robotic Cylons of the [[Original Series]], see [[Cylons (TOS)]]. For information on a human-appearing Cylon from ''[[Galactica 1980]]'', see [[Andromus]].''

:''This article is capitalized for technical reasons. The correct term is "humanoid Cylon" and is not a proper noun.''

[[Image:CyAg.jpg|thumb|300px|Cylon copies of (from left) [[Number Six]] (two copies), [[Number Two]], and [[Number Five]] (two copies), at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]]]
'''Humanoid Cylons'''<ref>Viewers initially lacked an authentic term to call the humanoid Cylons during Season 1. Here on the ''Battlestar Wiki'', the [[BW:TERM|descriptive term]] "Humano-Cylon" was used for a time. Dialogue in several episodes throughout Season 2 has canonically established "Cylon agent" to refer specifically to Cylon infiltrators, but since [[Sharon Agathon]] works for the Colonials, ''Battlestar Wiki'''s preference is to use "humanoid Cylon" (which [[Tricia Helfer]] often uses in interviews, but apparently more for convenience than an official name). Some of the resistance fighters on Caprica refer to the humanoid Cylons as "skin jobs," an homage to ''[[Wikipedia:Blade Runner|Blade Runner]]''. William Adama refers to them as "humanoid models" in "[[Precipice]]".</ref> are the quintessential [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon form]] in the [[Re-imagined Series]]. These Cylons biologically mimic human form so completely that they are nearly undetectable to current Colonial technologies.

Humanoid Cylons have the capacity to emulate many human physical acts, including sex. They also display convincingly human personalities (affection, jealousy, sadness, anger, sense of humor, religious faith, etc.) This behavior continues even when interacting with other Cylons outside of Colonial scrutiny, clearly establishing that their personalities are genuine.

The humanoid Cylons are responsible for masterminding the complete destruction of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] through their use of sabotage and infiltration.

==Origins==

Following the end of the [[Cylon War]] ([[Miniseries]]), nothing was heard of the Cylons in 40 years.

[[Image:Season 3 Female Cylons.jpg|thumb|150px|Numbers [[Number Six|Six]], [[Number Three|Three]], and [[Number Eight|Eight]]]]
During their forty years of isolation, the Cylons developed or evolved into a ''humanoid form''<ref>The idea of Cylons in humanoid form in ''Battlestar Galactica'' is not new. This concept appeared over 25 years earlier in the episode "[[The Night the Cylons Landed, Part I|The Night the Cylons Landed]]" in the short-lived spinoff of the Original Series, ''[[Galactica 1980]]''. Unlike the humanoid Cylons, however, [[Andromus]] was an [[Wikipedia:Android|android]], akin to the character of [[MemoryAlpha:Data|Data]] from ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]''.</ref>.

The creation of the humanoid Cylon is left to speculation based on series events. While the opening credits claim that the Cylons "evolved", the concept of biological evolution (in the [[Wikipedia:Darwinism|Darwinian fashion]]) is impossible with mechanical beings. The "evolution" is obviously a planned architectural change from the mechanical to the biomechanical for the inherent Cylon design.

The first step in their evolution from pure machines to organic beings was known as the "[[First Hybrid|Hybrid]]." Other [[hybrid]]s were later created to control [[Basestar (RDM)|baseships]] ([[Razor]]). Exactly how the original Cylon, the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]], a sentient robot "evolved" to the humanoid form is uncertain.<ref>Information noted from the start of [[Miniseries]] (the existence of the [[Armistice Station]]) indicates that the original Cylons were not only sentient, but capable of intense emotion. [[William Adama]] confirms that the new robotic successor to the Model 0005 were built by the humanoid Cylons without sentience to avoid the possibility of the new [[Cylon Centurion]] from creating an overthrow attempt at their humanoid masters.</ref> Saul Tigh, a humanoid Cylon, has an apparent age that would place his birth (if he was born) well before the first Cylon War, and possibly even before the creation of the original mechanical Cylon. His military record documents his existence during the war. [[Number Three]]'s conversation with [[Number One]] immediately before she was [[boxing|boxed]] indicates that the humanoid Cylons do not know who programmed them or why.<ref>The final scene of "[[Rapture]]".</ref>

Series information shows that the humanoid Cylons existed in secret for at least two years prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Colonies' destruction]]. This information does not provide concrete evidence as to when the first models were created or how long they have been among the human population. [[Final Five|Some of them]] were among the human population for at least several decades prior to the war.

==Physiology and Psychology==
Humanoid Cylons are visually indistinguishable from humans, down to the cellular level, but not completely at a molecular level. Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] is able to create a [[Cylon detector|detector]] that can distinguish Cylon from human, but rarely used the device to a positive end ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

Each humanoid Cylon has the same face, stature, hair, eye and skin color, gender, apparent age, and other biometrics as all the others of his or her model. This point technically makes each copy a twin of itself, but there are some models that choose to make cosmetic differences. Examples include [[D'Anna Biers]], [[Gina Inviere]], and a Number Six model with black hair ([[Torn]]). In addition, each copy appears to start with the same basic personality, but each personality grows more distinct due to their individual experiences.

Humanoid Cylons can be programmed as 'sleeper agents', who appear to have a low-level Cylon personality that can conduct operations while placing the human sleeper personality "on-hold." [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]] was one such agent ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Most agent copies, particularly [[Number Five|Numbers Five]] [[Number Six|and Six]], assume a human persona but are fully aware of their true nature and behave more or less as a human "spy."

[[Image:Gina catatonic.jpg|thumb|left|The emotionally scarred Number Six copy known as "Gina Inviere".]]
They are susceptible to the same emotional traumas and joys that their human counterparts are, further proving that personalities are a realistic part of their psyche. A case in point is a copy of Number Six, known as [[Gina Inviere]], who is physically and sexually assaulted repeatedly by the crew of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. These repeated assaults lead to Inviere's near-catatonic state at the time ''Pegasus'' discovers the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

Humanoid Cylons can dream, a process that appears to be natural to them<ref>A Number Three speaks casually to Doctor [[Cottle]] about her [[Dodona Selloi|prophetic dreams]] of the child [[Hera Agathon|Hera]] in "[[Exodus, Part I]]".</ref>.

Some or all Cylon female models may have the capacity to bear children seeded by human males ("[[33]]", "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]"). The Cylons tested numerous methods of sexual reproduction, yet these failed due to a known flaw in their design. The seven widely known models of Humanoid Cylons cannot reproduce with each other biologically, so in an attempt to subvert this deficiency, they try to interbreed with humans, creating hybrid offspring. "[[Farms]]" were set up across all the occupied Colonies where survivors, specifically, young fertile women of child-bearing age, were rounded up, placed under heavy sedation and turned into "baby machines" through artificial insemination<ref>Ron Moore said there are presumably also farms for male humans, plus ''in vitro'' experiment labs, etc.</ref>. However, this methods have been unsuccessful thus far. Another drastically different approach is taken by attempting to conceive a child through a bond of love. To most of the characters it seems that [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]]'s love-child, [[Hera Agathon|Hera]] is the lone success story of the relatively short history of Cylon sexual reproduction ([[The Farm]]), with the hybrid nature of [[Galen Tyrol]]'s child [[Nicholas Tyrol]] unknown to anyone but the four recently revealed members of the Final Five. More recently, the humanoid Cylons [[Saul Tigh]] (another of the Final Five) and [[Caprica-Six]] have conceived an unborn child.

The bodies of humanoid Cylons sometimes appear to have tremendous stamina and strength, and appear to be designed to destroy or resist commonly dangerous human diseases<ref>The blood from [[Hera Agathon|Hera]]'s fetus destroys the cancer within [[Laura Roslin]]'s body in "[[Epiphanies]]".</ref>, although they are not immune from all contagions<ref>An infection ravages the Cylons in the episode, "[[Torn]]".</ref>. In keeping with their desire to be a better human, however, the Cylons did not or could not further improve on other characteristic design flaws of the human body.<ref>Dr. Cottle complains of birth complications with Caprica-Valerii in the episode, "[[Downloaded]]".</ref> Humanoid Cylons are heavily fortified to resist damage from intense radiation fields that would kill a human after short exposure ([[The Passage]]), but they are still susceptible to damage from [[Ragnar|certain types of radiation]] or trauma ([[Miniseries]]). Despite their resistance to certain forms of energy, humanoid Cylons, unlike the [[Cylon Centurion]], cannot be made "bulletproof" ("[[Precipice]]", "[[Hero]]").

==Cylon Religion==
{{mainarticle|Cylon Religion}}
The Cylon follow a [[Cylon Religion|monotheistic religion]] to varying extents. Fanatical devotion to God is the central part of [[Number Two]]'s character, whilst the [[Number Six|Sixes]], [[Number Three|Threes]] and to a lesser extent the [[Number Eight|Eights]] also seem to have strong faith. The [[Number One]]s appear to be atheistic. [[Number Four|Fours']] and [[Number Five|Fives']] views are not so well known, but they too take the "non-religious side" in the [[Cylon Civil War]].

==Cybernetic Behavior==
[[Image:Valerii_optic_input.jpg|right|120px|thumb|[[Sharon Agathon|Valerii]] interfaces with ''Galactica's'' [[Computers|computer systems]].]]
Upon the death of its body, a humanoid Cylon's consciousness is automatically transferred into another copy of itself. This "[[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]]" is limited by signal integrity and proximity to the Cylon homeworld or a [[Resurrection Ship]] ([[Miniseries]], "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

It appears that all humanoid Cylons share a ''collective knowledge base'' of data from other active or deactivated humanoid Cylons, regardless of their model.<ref>A collective knowledge base works more like an internet chat forum, or even a wiki, which differs from the concept of the collective consciousness as seen in SciFi species such as the Borg in ''Star Trek.'' Writers of the show have indicated this type of "hive mind" is ''not'' employed. Many Cylons are seen describing or detailing events that one of the models experienced but did not participate, such as [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii's]] description of meeting Kara Thrace for the first time--a memory physically experienced not by that Number Eight copy, but [[Sharon Valerii|"Boomer" Valerii]], in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]". When under duress, "Boomer" Valerii is able to tell [[Gaius Baltar]] the number of remaining humanoid Cylons in the Fleet. This information would be impossible to know without a collective knowledge base to all humanoid Cylons ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])</ref>

Also as a cylon downloads after being killed it is apparent that her memories are automatically stored for future use such as uploading them into another copy of that specific model. Once these memories are implanted they become as real to the cylon as their own original memories. This download of memories seems to be involuntary as [[Athena]] had no reason to do such a thing ([[The Hub]]).

Their psychology is based on what they simply refer to as "[[projection]]". Essentially an enhanced form of a self-induced and controlled hallucination, projection is how they choose to see the world around them, in any form they wish, whenever they wish. For example, if a Cylon were standing in a hallway, they could choose to see it as a forest filled with birds, trees, and sunlight. This mode of visualization is pleasing to humanoid Cylons ([[Torn]])<ref>[[Gaius Baltar]]'s dreamlike interactions with his [[Virtual beings|virtual Number Six]] is strikingly similar to Cylon projection. See the article, [[Baltar as Cylon speculation]] for more on this issue.</ref>.

Although they cannot do so remotely or wirelessly, humanoid Cylons can interface with a [[Computers in the Re-imagined Series|computer system]] or computer network by photo-electrical means. They can perform this through subdermal physical contact if required ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]) or, preferably, through a [[data-font|Cylon data-font]]<ref>[[Sharon Agathon]] steals back the Fleet's [[launch key]]s by infiltrating a Cylon base by using a Cylon data-font. Humanoid Cylons are seen operating a basestar in the episode "[[Torn]]" by touching an optical pad that illuminates these arm interfaces.</ref>. This might be possible through the use of bio-luminescent and photosensitive cells in their hands.

[[Image:Ander's red eye.jpg|thumb|left|Anders's "red eye" moment.]]
The presence of a water-like fluid as an integral part of the basestar, the ability to interface photo-electronically through subdermal and dermal contact, and the fact that humanoid Cylon are anatomically indistinguishable from human beings, implies that the techniques used in their creation are advanced enough to incorporate cybernetic functions into their design without the use of specific internal structures other than human-like organs.

After being "stared at" by a [[Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raider]], [[Samuel Anders]]'s right eye briefly flashes red, the Raider responds to this apparent [[IFF]] procedure by flying away, and a Cylon fleet attacking the Colonials retreats ([[He That Believeth In Me]]).

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

== Known Cylon Models ==
[[Image:Cylonagentdossier.jpg|right|200px]]
There are twelve models of humanoid Cylons ([[Miniseries]]), representing twelve personality archetypes that the Cylons have witnessed in humanity. These can be divided into two separate groups, the "Significant Seven"<ref name="sign7">{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Frak Party Q and A|act=|id=Sig7|timestamp=19:14|totalrunning=78:27}}</ref> and the "Final Five".
According to show producers, the two groups are "fundamentally different."<ref name ="different"/> The religion, origin, physiology and cybernetic properties of the Final Five remain largely unrevealed.

The twelve models have numerical designations, however only those of the Significant Seven have been revealed so far. With the exceptions of Three and Six, most models are referred to by their "human names", even by other Cylons. There appears to be no significance to any of the specific numbers assigned to the different Cylons.<ref>On [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ Ronald D. Moore's blog on Scifi.com], he stated that "Number Six was specifically a homage to 'The Prisoner,' but the rest [of the humanoid Cylons] were assigned their numbers randomly."</ref>

===Significant Seven===

Seven models revealed to the viewers as Cylons have also been revealed to the central Colonial characters within the first two seasons. There are many copies of each model, although the specific number of copies per model has not been specified; although a [[Number One]] known as Cavil has stated it is in the millions. The identities of these mechanized copies are determined by their model and each model is unique ([[Six of One]]).

==== [[Number One]] ====

[[Image:Pensieve One.jpg|thumb|left|Number One/Cavil]]
One of the Cavil models (Number One) poses as a Colonial [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Brothers|brother]], a lay clergyman in the Fleet.

Cavil models do not appear to subscribe to overall theology of the Cylons, but adhere to group consensus, and often are persuasive leaders. Cavils have displayed a condescending attitude toward the beliefs of the other six known Cylons at times.

In several instances, the Cavils advocate dark, draconian solutions to the insurgency on [[New Caprica]] that reveal a militant zeal equaling that of Numbers Three and Five.

One Cavil model in particular seems to be in something approaching a leadership role on one of the basestars, as seen in the episode" [[Six of One]]". This model assumes some authority and wields influence over the others, yet decisions are still reached through majority vote. However, this is soon overturned by the rebellion of the Cylons led by [[Natalie]], a [[Number Six]], and the body of this Number One is killed by Centurions.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==== [[Number Two]] ====

[[Image:Leoben2.jpg|thumb|right|Number Two/Leoben Conoy]]
Leoben Conoy (Number Two) is the fourth model seen by viewers (although viewers would not know until the end of the [[Miniseries]] that they had already seen the third introduced humanoid Cylon, Sharon Valerii). The Conoy model has shown to be mystically oriented--making references to the oneness of the universe, the illusion of time, etc.--and claims to be prescient on some level, albeit with a known propensity for intermixing truth with falsehoods. He is first discovered on [[Ragnar Station]], claiming to be a scavenger and arms dealer ([[Miniseries]]).

The Conoy models also appear obsessed with matters of mating, bonding, and reproduction, as demonstrated by a particular model's fascination and obsession with [[Kara Thrace]] ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", "[[Occupation]]", "[[Precipice]]" and "[[Exodus, Part II]]").

Conoy can be likened to the serpent of the [[w:Genesis|Genesis]] tale in the Earth [[w:Bible|Christian Bible]], taunting people with knowledge, then watching as the negative consequences come into devastating fruition. Leoben copies have likely been encountered by the [[Caprica Resistance]], as [[Samuel Anders]] recites in jest some comments made by another Leoben copy captured in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[The Farm]]").
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==== [[Number Three]] ====

[[Image:Number Three.jpg|thumb|left|Number Three/D'Anna Biers]]
First seen posing as a reporter from the [[Fleet News Service]], this model is revealed to be a Cylon at the end of "[[Final Cut]]" when a second copy is shown living on Caprica. Threes seem to be the most calculating and duplicitous models shown to-date, even manipulating and deceiving other models if they feel warranted. The copy that tried to [[Boxed|box]] Sharon Valerii exhibited these characteristics strongly in the episode, "[[Downloaded]]".

This model's status as a Cylon is unknown to the Colonials until either shortly after the rescue of the surviving members of the [[Caprica Resistance]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]), or after the Cylon occupation of [[New Caprica]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]].)

After the Threes defy other Cylon models in their attempt to discern the identity of the [[Final Five|five missing Cylon humanoids]], the other Cylons conclude that the Three model has an inherent flaw that threatens their overall reliability. After the failure on the [[algae planet]] to gather information on the path to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], the Cylons have all Number Three models [[boxing|boxed]] indefinitely.

The first encountered copy of this model appeared under the alias "[[D'Anna Biers]]", and the D'Anna name is used inconsistently to describe the model as a whole.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==== [[Number Four]] ====

[[Image:Simon Farm2.JPG|thumb|right|Number Four/Simon]]
The Simon model (Number Four) is first encountered by [[Kara Thrace]] on Cylon-occupied [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]]. Posing as a doctor, this Simon is actually involved with the Cylon hybridization program. Simon resembles a tall, somewhat thin middle-aged black man who speaks in a comforting strong voice ([[The Farm]]) Unlike other models, Simon does not seem to have many military aspects to his physical or mental configuration, and is easily overcome by a wounded Thrace. Simon may be a model based primarily on human intellectualism and logic<ref>A Simon expresses the moral dilemmas of rescuing a crippled basestar as having no scientific answer in "[[Torn]]".</ref>. It is unknown if a Simon model infiltrated the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] prior to the occupation of [[New Caprica]]. In any case, the model is now known to the general populace, many humans likely saw a Simon model during the occupation.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==== [[Number Five]] ====

[[Image:Doral.jpg|thumb|left|Number Five/Aaron Doral]]
This model attempts to sow the seeds of discontent or confusion, particularly during crucial life-threatening situations, and endeavors to undermine authority that threatens his objectives ([[Miniseries]]). Number Five models are more covert, assuming an ordinary "everyman" appearance that's blended in what may seem to be insignificant behind-the-scenes issues (such as converting ''Galactica'' into a museum). Of all the models thus far, the Number Five models are the most militant, fanatic and consistent in message and objectives to the Cylon objectives, whether he is dispassionately discussing the fate of humanity with his comrades or attempting to kill or maim Colonials in a suicide bomb attack ([[Litmus]]).

Viewers first meet a Number Five during a tour of ''Galactica'' with other Colonial citizens (possibly the press) at the start of the Miniseries, but are not sure of the Cylon's true identity until the Miniseries' conclusion.

Copies of this model have appeared under the alias "[[Aaron Doral]]".
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==== [[Number Six]] ====

[[Image:Number Six.jpg|thumb|right|Number Six]]
This is the first humanoid Cylon model shown to viewers at the start of the [[Miniseries]].

Stunningly beautiful, promiscuous and sensual, this model utilizes the human need and desire for sexual relations to her advantage. She tends to be very religious and monotheistic. Number Six desires to know what it is to be alive. There is something inherently enigmatic about her, more so than with the other models. Sixes have been described as "usually so hardcore", referring to their tendencies towards violence.

Sixes are the only model who appear not to have one particular "human name", copies have appeared under the aliases "[[Shelly Godfrey]]", "[[Gina Inviere]]", "[[Natalie]]", and "[[Caprica-Six|Caprica]]" (in honor of her work on Caprica towards the destruction of the Colonies). [[Virtual Six]], whom only [[Gaius Baltar]] can see is a mainstay of the cast, and is clearly the dominant party in their "relationship".

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==== [[Number Eight]] ====

[[Image:Eight.jpg|thumb|left|Number Eight/Sharon]]
Number Eight is generally a saboteur designed to infiltrate Colonial military units and is likely programmed to use any Colonial munitions to cause havoc ([[Water]]). The Number Eight model is the closest witnessed humanoid Cylon model to show its abilities as a soldier. This model has shown naiveté in many matters. She is apparently not as religious as other Cylon models, but has demonstrated that she can love, and is capable of being impregnated by a human ("[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]").

She may be "defective", as the Cylon programming within the sleeper agent known as "Boomer" on ''Galactica'' conflicts multiple times with its human personality ([[Water]]). Also, the fully aware Sharon Valerii found by [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] on Caprica switches alliances from Cylon to Colonial after falling in love with Helo and aids the Colonials [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|for a time]] (several episodes, most notably "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]"). Number Eight is the third humanoid Cylon introduced during the [[Miniseries]]. However, viewers do not discover her true identity until the very end of the Miniseries when a second copy of Sharon Valerii appears at [[Ragnar Anchorage]] while retrieving an abandoned copy of Number Five.

A copy of this model has appeared under the name "[[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]]." One copy, [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon "Athena" Agathon]], has defected from the Cylon and has joined the Colonial Fleet, generally replacing her "Boomer" counterpart as a [[Raptor]] pilot.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Final Five===

{{Mainarticle|Final Five}}

The identities of the remaining five Cylon models remained a mystery long after the revelation of the identities of the "Significant Seven".

In "[[Torn]]", [[Caprica-Six]] mentions to [[Gaius Baltar]] that the Cylons do not talk about the missing five humanoid Cylons. In the same episode, Baltar confirms that, during his time with the Cylons on occupied New Caprica and on a basestar, he only saw the first seven models. It is later revealed that the Significant Seven themselves do not know (or have repressed) the identities of these final five models, until the [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula|battle at the Ionian nebula]] in which the [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]] identify one of the members of the Final Five, causing a divide between the Seven.

In "[[Crossroads, Part II]]" four major characters discover they are Cylons: [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Saul Tigh]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]]. They were previously unaware of their nature, and this information is limited only to themselves. While shocked by their discovery, they all remain loyal to humanity.<ref name="different">Ron Moore noted in his podcasts and interviews that these characters are "fundamentally different" Cylons, where much of what was defined as a humanoid Cylon may not apply to these models.</ref>

<gallery>
Image:Tyrol Cylon.jpg|[[Galen Tyrol]]
Image:Anders_Cylon.jpg|[[Samuel Anders]]
Image:Tighlon.jpg|[[Saul Tigh]]
Image:Tory Cylon.JPG|[[Tory Foster]]
</gallery>

==== The Final Cylon model ====
{{seealso|Humanoid Cylon speculation}}
There remains one final Cylon model to be revealed. During a Q&A session on the official Sci Fi Channel ''Battlestar Galactica'' forum, Ron Moore notes that he has already decided who the last Cylon is, and has already left clues as to who it is<ref>[http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2270103&st=0&p=3041263&#entry3041263 20 Answers - SCI FI FORUMS] Retrieved 03-27-2007</ref>.

==Human/Cylon Hybrids==

Conceived by the Eight believed to be [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], the infant [[Hera Agathon]] is the first known human/Cylon hybrid<ref>These beings should not be confused with the living computer of a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]], also called a [[Hybrid]].</ref>.

[[Gaius Baltar]]'s internal [[Number Six]] regularly insists that Hera is actually the child of herself and Baltar, though there is no physical reason yet presented to justify that claim.

For some time Hera was hidden away from both humans and Cylons, and believed to be dead by her parents. President [[Laura Roslin]] had the baby hidden with [[Maya]] as her adoptive parent. Despite Roslin's attempts to protect the child on [[New Caprica]], Hera is later found by the Cylons ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

After Hera's mother discovers that her daughter is alive, she uses her ability to [[Resurrection (RDM)|download]] to transport to the Cylon ships, and manages to convince [[Caprica-Six]] to return the child to ''Galactica'' for medical treatment for a possible intestinal blockage, which the Cylon doctors, lacking pediatric knowledge, were unable to comprehend ([[Rapture]]).

A child, [[Kacey]], is presented by a Number Two model to [[Kara Thrace]] as an hybrid offspring purportedly created with their genetic material in the episode "[[Occupation]]". The Cylons' ruse is revealed when Kacey's human mother later claims the child ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

[[Nicholas Tyrol]] is also a Cylon/human hybrid ([[Crossroads, Part II]], <ref>{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Frak Party Q and A|act=|id=hybridnick|timestamp=22:41|totalrunning=78:27}}</ref>).

== Speculated Infiltrators ==

:''See the [[Humanoid Cylon speculation]] article for analysis on characters and their likelihood of being a humanoid Cylon, based on episode information.''

== Notes ==
*[[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]] stated in an interview with ''[http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml TheFandom.com]'', "There is no original human Sharon. The idea is not that there was likely an original human model that they were copied from. The idea was that these models of Cylon were sort of developed out of their own study of us. The Cylons on some level looked at humanity and said 'You know what? There's really only 12 of you.' If these are the 12, and sort of if you look at them they each represent different archetypes of what humanity is." This established as canon that:
** There are precisely twelve ''human'' Cylon models. The other varieties of Cylon spacecraft or fighters are not factored into this count of 12 models.
** '''None''' of the humanoid Cylons were ''ever'' an actual human.
** The twelve models are based on archetypes determined by the Cylons that form what they perceive were the specific kinds of human behavior and/or personality, distilled into twelve varieties.
* A [[Cylon Centurion]] cannot distinguish the differing versions of one model from another ([[Precipice]]). For example, if faced with two differing Number Eight models, [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon "Athena" Agathon]], it would not be able to discriminate between them without external aid.
* While Centurions may not be able to tell the difference between different versions of the same model, other humanoid Cylons do not have this problem ("[[Downloaded]]", "[[Exodus, Part I]]", "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", "[[Six of One]]").
* According to [[Cavil]] in "[[Exodus, Part I]]", the pain associated with each successive [[Resurrection (RDM)|download]] is worse than the one before. The first download feels like little more than a headache, but the third feels like someone has rushed a white hot poker through the head. However, this might be a subjective feeling that varies with model and circumstances. [[Sharon Agathon]]'s report in "[[Scar]]" supports Cavil, but a [[Number Three]] considers her last download to be rejuvenating ([[Downloaded]]).
*Some characters refer to humanoid Cylons as "skinjobs". This is a reference to the film ''[[w:Blade Runner|Blade Runner]]'' in which [[Edward James Olmos]] has a supporting role. In the movie "skinjob" is used as an insult to [[w:Replicant|replicants]], which are bio-mechanical robots made to look human.

== See also ==

* [[Cylon Culture]]
* [[Cylon Religion]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:Descriptive terms]]
[[Category:RDM]]

{{featured article candidate previous}}

[[de:Humanoider Zylon]]
[[ms:Cylon manusia]]

User:Centurion

2008-05-23T13:46:38Z

Centurion: COMPLETE Restructure of Page

:''This article discusses a specific [[Centurion|Cylon copy]] found on the [[Cylon Civil War|Rebel Basestar]]''.''
:''For information on this model, see [[Centurion]].''
{{Character Data
|photo=Centurion retcon.jpg
|age=
|colony= Cylon Homeworld
|birthname=
|servicen=
|callsign=
|seen= Downloaded
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon Overseer, Co-leader of Cylon rebel faction.
|rank= Basestar Command Copy
|actor= CGI..?
|cylon= y
|name= Centurion
}}
Hey this is my page, Centurion. Not much to say really, i mainly patrol the Cylon (RDM) pages and edit minor details about the back story of the Cylons and intricate little details that may have been missed. I want to become more active with the New season and will hopefully be more useful to the wiki in the days to come. :)

Basestar (TRS)

2008-05-17T13:37:20Z

Centurion: Added organic notes

:''This article is about the basestars as seen in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. For the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] version, see [[Basestar (TOS)]].''

A '''basestar''' (known interchangeably as a "baseship") is the most prominent example of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] military presence. As the main warship of the Cylons, the basestar appears in three forms in the [[Re-imagined Series]].

== Modern basestar ==
{{Ship Data
| image= Basestar.jpg
| title= Modern basestar
| race= [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= [[Humanoid Cylon]]s, [[Cylon Centurion]]s, the [[Hybrid]]
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Nuclear and conventional missiles, Raiders, [[Heavy Raider]]s
| img= Y
}}
The modern basestars, seen some 40 years after the end of the [[Cylon War]], are approximately the same size as a Colonial battlestar but appear to be more technologically advanced <ref>The official SciFi.com website indicates that basestars "dwarf" a battlestar. However, aired information in season 3, which shows ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' in close proximity to a basestar, contradict SciFi.com's information.</ref>. The shape of the newer basestar reflects its name, with two Y-shaped hulls attached at their centers by a single pylon, the warship has a distinctive "star" shape.

They are equipped with a superior [[FTL|jump system]] and no visible means of [[sublight propulsion]], lacking any engine pods or nacelles, but remain capable of chasing down a battlestar ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

Basestars operate a fleet of small fighters, known as [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]], and are capable of deploying hundreds of these ships simultaneously (see [[#Related Imagery|Related Imagery]]). The enormous amount of Raiders serve as a basestar's primary defense system.

Like the Raiders, the basestars are partially organic, which is particularly evident in their landing bays ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). When severally damaged they can sustain large, fleshy "Wounds" ([[Faith]]). Also, [[Natalie]] mentions that their damaged Baseship can heal itself ([[Guess What's Coming to Dinner]]).

The Baseships possess several conventional rooms and hallways, which are sleek but generally bland. Lighting plays a large role in the aesthetics and some rooms are furnished with clearly human objects, such as beds and couches. Humanoid Cylons [[Projection|project different surroundings]] to navigate ship corridors more easily, and to provide them with an individually pleasing environment (such as a lush forest). Data and other functions (such as analyzing visual information) are handled within a liquid computer interface that resembles a stream of water flowing over a luminous glass surface. Cylons can [[Data-font|interact with the main computer by placing their hands in these basins]] ([[Torn]]).

===Command and Control===
[[Image:Basestarcontol_306_720p.png|thumb|left|Baseship control room ([[Torn]]).]]
A basestar is operated by many [[humanoid Cylon]]s. Up to [[Torn|all seven models]] of them issue commands for the basestar from a central command and control center. Consensus amongst models is the typical procedure, as such the process of deliberation and voting on decisions may cause the basestar to react more slowly than a battlestar's command and control in a [[CIC]].

A basestar's functions are managed by a partially humanoid Cylon incorporated into the ship, known as a [[Hybrid]]. The Hybrid, for all respects of identity and control, ''is '' the basestar. The ship is an extension of her body and she is the ship's mind. The Hybrid, despite its humanoid appearance, is not a considered a fellow humanoid Cylon and lacks voting power as other agents have in Cylon affairs.

A basestar has a [[datastream]], or computer network, which interfaces with the Hybrid and all aspects of the basestar's operation.

===Armaments===
A basestar is capable of launching conventional or nuclear missiles from "turrets" mounted throughout the hubs and central axis that rotate to allow the basestar to fire in any direction<ref>Intelligence Debrief: Cylon Basestar, "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine", June/July 2006, page 56.</ref>. Basestar-launched nuclear strikes against Colonial ships are usually carried out before Raider deployment. One example of a Cylon nuclear attack involved three Cylon basestars that [[The Captain's Hand|ambush]] the battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. They open their attack firing several nuclear missiles before deploying Raiders and switching to a non-nuclear salvo ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

A basestar's complement of Raiders is estimated as high as 792 fighters<ref>Intelligence Debrief: Cylon Basestar, "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine", June/July 2006, page 56.</ref>, not counting fighters in repair or otherwise off-line.

This tactic, along with the massive amounts of Raiders that a basestar can unleash, suggest a reliance on overwhelming force to destroy a foe. It is probable that basestars use nuclear weapons to destroy the bulk of the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] (using their [[CNP]] back-doors to compromise their defenses first) in the opening wave of their [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|destruction of the Colonies]].

After the Colonial commanders draw away their Raider wings, [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship|two basestars are torn apart]] by the kinetic guns of the battlestars ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' in a joint mission to destroy a Cylon [[Resurrection Ship]]. It would seem that that basestars rely heavily on their Raiders for close-range gun defense. Since a basestar does not appear to have point-defense batteries, or heavy armoring<ref>Intelligence Debrief: Cylon Basestar, "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine", June/July 2006, page 57.</ref>, it seems quite vulnerable to battlestars in close-range combat when fighter support is not prominent ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

=== Notes ===
*Beginning with the episode "[[Collaborators]]", a [[:Image:Change.jpg|new exterior design]] is used for the basestars, bearing a sharper, more mechanical look than they previously had. This was apparently an upgrade by the visual effects crew to make the exterior mirror more the interior design, which is seen for the first time in that episode.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

== Cylon War-era basestar ==

{{Ship Data
| image=Tauron.png
| title= Cylon War-era basestar
| race= [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]
| type= Military
| ftl= Unknown
| crew= [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurions]]
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Nuclear and conventional missiles, [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]]
| img= Y
}}
The basestars in service during the 12-year Cylon War consisted of two flattened cones connected at the center by a thick pylon, giving them a conical saucer-like appearance<ref>This basestar design seen in the [[Miniseries]] and later in "[[Razor]]" is an obvious homage to the [[Basestar (TOS)|basestar]] seen in the [[Original Series]]. However, its weaponry (if not also its [[Imperious Leader|command structure]]) is markedly different than its 1978 counterpart per the "realistic" goals of [[Ron Moore]]'s essay on [[Naturalistic science fiction]] in ''Battlestar''.</ref> ([[Razor Flashbacks]]).

[[Image:Basestarinmuseum.jpg|thumb|left|A model of a Cylon War-era basestar on display in the defunct museum.]]
Much like its modern counterpart, this model utilized chemically-propelled missiles (with both nuclear and standard warheads) as the main form of offensive weaponry. Raiders were deployed from access points (totaling 8 in number) throughout a basestar's hull to provide defense.

During [[Operation Raptor Talon]], the battlestar ''[[Columbia (RDM)|Columbia]]'' was destroyed by basestar missiles and Raider attacks as ''[[Galactica]]'' and another unnamed battlestar pressed their assaults.

The origins of the initial basestars are unclear. However, as [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons were a creation of man]] in the early days before the war, it is probable that man himself (through the efforts of various [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|colonies]]) designed the various ships and weapons used by the Cylons for the use in intra-colonial wars prior to the [[Articles of Colonization]].

A model of this basestar design is displayed over 40 years later on ''Galactica'', as part of its [[Galactica Museum|planned museum]] ([[Miniseries, Night 1]]).

<div style="clear:both;"></div>

== Guardian basestar ==
{{Ship Data
| image= guardian_basestar.jpg
| title= Guardian basestar
| race= [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Cylon Centurions]], the [[first Hybrid]]
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Possible missile tubes, Raiders
}} {{mainarticle|Guardian basestar}}
Towards the end of the first Cylon War, the Cylons built a prototype basestar that had roughly the same shape as the modern basestar. The [[First Hybrid|first hybrids]] were developed for use with this model.

[[Image:Gardian basestar.jpg|thumb|left|The Guardian basestar taking off from an [[ice planet]] ([[Razor Flashbacks]]).]]
It is explained by [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] that a group of Centurions calling themselves [[Guardians]] fractured from the Cylon majority with such a basestar. The belief is that they escaped to the far reaches of space to avoid being shut-down in favor of their modernized, non-sentient [[Cylon Centurion|successors]] ([[Razor]]). The only basestar of this type known to exist was destroyed by Colonial forces shortly after its discovery.
<div style="clear:both;"></div>

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:Baseship, hornet nest.jpg|[[Cylon Raider|Raiders]] being released ([[Scattered]])
Image:Baseships fires missiles.jpg|Basestar launching missiles ([[Miniseries]])
Image:Baseships over Caprica.jpg|Trio of basestars over Caprica ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
Image:Dyingbasestar_306_720p.png|A basestar infected by a deadly [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|virus]] ([[Torn]])
Image:Operation Raptor Talon.jpg|[[Operation Raptor Talon]] at the end of the first Cylon War ([[Razor]])
Image:Basestar Interior 1.jpg|Baltar and a Three in a room on a basestar (Torn)
Image:Basestar Interior 2.jpg|Baltar and a Three in a corridor ([[The Passage]])
Image:Basestar Interior 3.jpg|A basestar's hangar bay (Torn)
</gallery>

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Craft]]
[[Category:Cylon Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylon Military]]
[[Category:Cylon Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

{{featured article candidate previous}}

[[de:Basisschiff]]
[[zh:基地之星 (RDM)]]

Talk:Basestar (TRS)/Archive 1

2008-05-17T13:29:49Z

Centurion: /* Organic Design */ new section

I just registered 5 minutes ago, so be gentle...
Is there any reason why the references to BattleStar's and Raiders are neither capitalized, or links?

: Hi! Welcome to the Wiki -- I hope you have a blast here! :-) Anyway, to address your question, Battlestar can be spelled one of two ways ("Battlestar" or "battlestar"). ("BattleStar" is an incorrect spelling, by the way.) As for raiders, you can capitalize them or not; it's similar to writing the "stealth fighter" or "naval carrier" -- you can choose whether or not to capitalize the first letters of each word. As for the links, by default the first letter of any article is capitalized. Why? It's just how the software we use works. :-) Hope that answers your question! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:54, 14 Jun 2005 (EDT)

I noticed that Kuralyov had a number of Talk entries regarding basestars. Was he just tweaking the language?

:Just redirects from the various names used to describe Basestars, so any newcomer will be better able to find it via search. [[User:68.9.113.183|68.9.113.183]] 22:23, 15 Jun 2005 (EDT)
::Whoops, I was logged out for some reason when I posted that. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:24, 15 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Corrected minor spelling mistake - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 18 February, 2006

I'm not sure if the new bulleted list works or not. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:39, 22 March 2006 (CST)

: Each bulleted segment refers to a specific instance of an encounter between depicted Colonial forces and (a) Cylon basestar(s). The section title of "Encounters With the Colonial Fleet", and the way that the material was structured when I initiated the edit, implied that this was a list of some kind, at least a loosely associated one. The material that was there was also grammatically sloppy, overly detailed in some areas, and vague in others. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 23:47, 22 March 2006 (CST)

::You did a good job re-editing it, I'm just "not sure" it's best to keep it as a bulleted list, I don't know if this would be "aesthetically pleasing" or whatever. Point is I'm not sure; I dunno, just bringing up the point; whatever you guys decide I'm fine with; wouldn't be a problem if it stays the way Hawke left it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 00:17, 23 March 2006 (CST)

== TOS Basestar ==

Can someone please add a some information about the original basestar.

: See the first line of the article, please. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:26, 17 January 2006 (EST)

Question. If the Cylons rebelled against mankind (an open rebellion on all twelve colonies, with the Cylons previously having been servants of mankind) where did they get the resources, time, and infrastructure to build basestars? There would have to be massive shipyards to accommodate building them, and then it would probably take well over a year to build even one, which strikes me as being something hard to accomplish when you're busy serving mankind. Seems like mankind might notice?

[[User:UNATCO]] 04:30, 29 November 2006 (PST)
:In the original series the Cylons were no created by man and instead were made by an alient race. The original basestar seen in the miniseries is more liikely to be a homage rather than actual canon of their past. However even if it was the original war went on for a number of years. The cylons can been seen in paintings to be using swords, its not like they decided one day to build basestars and pummel into the colonials. It had also been many many years between the time when the Cylons left the colonies and the attack in the miniseries, plenty of time to build an army and basestars. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 07:45, 29 November 2006 (CST)

: It's possible that the basestars were created to be used by Cylons, since it's been hinted at that the Colonies were at war with one another prior to the Cylon rebellion. Also, this may very well address the question of how the battlestars came into existence as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 08:57, 29 November 2006 (CST)

== Image placement ==

So, rather than a revert war: I had shifted one of the images on this page to the left for balance. That's the scheme that's used on many character pages and I think it looks best. However, Bane Grievver seems to disagree but reverted without comment, so I'm soliciting one here. Any particular reason, Bane, or just because that's how it was before? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:30, 17 January 2006 (EST)

:I liked it your way, FWIW. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:10, 17 February 2006 (EST)

:I just made it what I'd imagine your way was in ignorance of the previous revert issue. I also added another image on the right, so hopefully that will remove any objection. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:01, 31 March 2006 (CST)

== 792? ==

Maybe I'm being dense, but how do you count the number of launch slots with such certainty? I could understand a Zoic source, I suppose, but just counting leaves me less sure. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:03, 31 March 2006 (CST)

:Isn't it from the official magazine? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 13:50, 29 November 2006 (CST)

::It's listed in the Official (now defunct) Magazine in the June/July issue. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:27, 29 November 2006 (CST)

:::Hey I have recently paused the dvd of Kobol's last gleaming at the point shown here: [[http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/9/95/Baseships_over_Caprica_II.jpg]] and I have done some counting and it comes out the same.... There are five 'Raider rows' and they get bigger by 2 each time.... The smallest has 19 'slots', the second 21, then 23 then 25 and finally 27.... This equals 115 raiders per 'lower arm' of a Basestar.... That means that if every arm had the same amount of slots then a Basestar (Before the recent ret-con) would have 690 Raiders..... Though I suspect that the arms that are the base of the Y shape would have more even rows with more raiders. Okay sorry if I am babbling but this is going somewhere! I was wondering if this should be mentioned somewhere in the article? And also if anyone could help me with a count of the Y base arm of a basestar that would be great, a time index for an episode would be great or a picture link! Also any help with finding out the numbers of a 'new' basestar would be great! Thanks! [[User:Armyoforigin|Armyoforigin]] 05:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC) I am adding something here as I have been re-checking all my assumptions... Well the picture here: [[http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/5/56/Change.jpg]] shows the 'upper' bays of a 'original' look and they have six rows of 28... If the lowwer rows are the same as the baseship from KLG then that gives me this.... 115 For the V parts of a basestar or 115 x 4 = 460 Raiders and 168 x 2 = 336 and tah dah = 460 + 336 = 796 And of course the only other calculation I have is just a random high end one.... It is that if the upper arm number displayed in the pic above was the same for every arm (l68 x 6) then a basestar would have 1,008 Raiders.... So yeah could you guys possibly give me some feedback? Also that 796 figure fits in quite snugly with the 792 figure of the official magazine.... no? [[User:Armyoforigin|Armyoforigin]] 08:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

==Images linked to in article==
As the wiki doesnt count the images linked in this article to be counted as being used I have thumbed them here so that they will not be deleted.
<removed>
<br/>--[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 07:50, 3 April 2006 (CDT)
:Placed images in new gallery feature so removed from Talk page --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 08:39, 19 May 2006 (CDT)

==Size==
Do Basestars really 'dwarf' Battlestars like the Pegasus and Galactica? Personally I think that they do, thats just the feel I get for them, but the truth is that I can't find any really good comparisons of a Battlestar and Basestar close togther. Theres a scene from Ressurectin Ship Pt. 2 where Apollo is drifting in space and you can see a Basestar and the two Battlestars, but the perspective is such that you can't really tell the size of them. Are theyre any concrete numbers on Basestar size, or at least some good comparisons?[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 22:32, 11 June 2006 (CDT)

When Pegasus rams one in the [[Battle of New Caprica]], Pegasus actually appears noticeably larger in comparison, or at least in bulk. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 20:32, 25 November 2006 (CST) [[Image:Pegaus_Ram.jpg|Pegaus_Ram.jpg]]

In looking at the above image, just how is it that basestars "dwarf" battlestars as a whole (Galactica maybe, but not Pegasus)? [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 14:03, 26 November 2006 (CST)
:I think the fact that there's debate should be enough to remove the word "dwarf", at least for the meantime. If the difference in size were that stark there'd be no debate.--[[User:Pearse|Pearse]] 15:36, 26 November 2006 (CST)

==Heavy Raiders?==
Do we have proof that Basestars field Heavy Raiders? I don't really recall any Basestars launching Heavy Raiders. If I recall correctly, every time we've seen Heavy Raiders, they've been self powered. And as for Scattered, that Heavy Raider wasn't seen launching from the Basestar, and thusly could have come in under its own power. I'd suggest that until we see Heavy Raiders launching from Basestars, we don't take an assumption as fact. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:04, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
:Heavy Raiders, however, have been seen flying next to Basestars deep in space. I personally would assume that the Heavy Raider was launched from the Basestar itself rather than accompanied it all the way from the Cylon Homeworld --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 09:20, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
::And, I think it's a good assumption, but I'm saying that we shouldn't take it as fact. I added a small note to the page saying Heavy Raiders are likely. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:24, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Actually, we do know they dock in Basestars. In KLGII, when Boomer and Racetrack land inside the Basestar Hangar, some of the Landing Bays neighbouring the one they dock on have Heavy Raiders in them. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:12, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:No less then seven Heavy Raiders have been launched from a basestar in "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 01:51, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Numbers==
I'm not sure, but did we ever get any comments on the size of the Cylon Fleet? Wasn't there a comment in a podcast or something, I think I recall it, but I am unsure. If anyone knows if they've mentioned numbers anywhere, I think it would be great for the article, since we can keep a "kill" count, or something. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:22, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

The exact number of Basestars is unknown, but I would place a guess of there being at '''least''' 50 of them. If the Cylons did decide the Colonial Fleet was superior to theirs, it might suggest there were at the least not enough Basestars to match the approx 120 Battlestars [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 20:24, 25 November 2006 (CST)

==Article Name==
Hey, we all know that the terms "Baseship" and "Basestar" are basically interchangeable, but I've noticed that in all the new season, everytime we hear the Cylons refer to their ships they call them "Baseships" and they've never called it "Basestar". Maybe, considering the actual creators use that term more, we should change the main article name to Baseship? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18:14, 12 November 2006 (CST)
*For that matter, how many times have the colonials called it a "basestar"? If I recall, they haven't used it so much. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21:44, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:The Cylons prefer "baseship," but we hear either from the Colonial's side. I don't think a move is particularly useful, especially when there are redirects for the same term, no matter what series. "Basestar" also works because of its RDM ship's star shape. As this is also a homage to TOS, best to leave it be. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:36, 12 November 2006 (CST)
::Well I was just thinking, maybe the article should have the "main name" that is used by it's creators. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:27, 12 November 2006 (CST)
:::Its called a basestar because thats its original series name. Everyone knows its a basestar but we also know what the Cylons mean when they refer to a a baseship. Keep the name basestar imo. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:24, 13 November 2006 (CST)
::::True, but I found it odd that the only name the Cylons ever use is "Baseship", even if for us it's the same thing, the fact that they've never used the term "Basestar" made me wonder if perhaps these ships are mainly referred to as "Baseship", while "basestar" is a nickname also commonly associated, though not the actual name of the ship class. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:39, 13 November 2006 (CST)
:::::In the most recent podcasts RDM has definitely favored baseship over basestar. He seems to use them interchangably though, and baseship is a bit easier to say. I can't testify to the use of the word in-show, though a quick search of the episode transcripts could verify its use. Even with its prevalent "baseship" usage, "basestar"'s appeal lies in the consistency, whereas baseship is the word they're using right now. It might at least be worth a note in the article about the consistent usage of the newer term. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:40, 13 November 2006 (CST)
:It should be noted that, even in the original series, "baseship" and "basestar" were also used interchangably. The Colonials even use the term "Cylon battlestar" in one episode, as I recall, so nothing is really served by upsetting the status quo, since all the redirects are in place already. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 10:46, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Hey, I only bring this up again in light of what Bradley Thompson answered regarding the name of ships, and he actually included this ship in his answer:

:'''''"During the first season, we asked Mr. Eick for a decree on the subject: Are the Cylon vessels Base Ships or Base Stars? One word or two? He quite definitively stated that Base Ships was what they use. Of course, not everybody got the word and you'll hear both throughout the series."'''''

So it seems that the official term is "Base Ship", and that the only reason we here the other term sometimes is because the writers of some episodes were not aware of this information and used both terms.

I think that this official statement, coupled with the fact that Cylons always call their ship "Base Ship", should warrant a change in the article name. I know the words are basically interchangeable, but we should have the term that is the most official, no? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
*Any Thoughts? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:28, 19 December 2006 (CST)
**I know it might not seem like it matters that much, and I hate to appear anal but I do think we should go by the term that is the one they wanted to use, and would've used completely if all writers had been informed. It also gives us a chance to easier differentiate these from the old ones because their "Main Name" is different. And hence we only need to call it "Base Ship". --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:40, 21 December 2006 (CST)

::However, they are labeled "basestar" on DRADIS, at least as of "Exodus". -- [[User:Kingfisher|Kingfisher]] 01:56, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:::I know, and they've been labelled "basestars" in other places (From Colonial point of view), but it has been quite noticeable that the Cylons themselves always call them "Base Ships", and as Ngarenn said, it is supposed to be "Base Ships", but since not all the writers heard this we might hear a different term now and then, but this is because of misinformation rather than anything else. That's why I think that, given the revelation that the "most official" term is "Base Ship", it's the one we should use, while the others serve as secondary. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 02:20, 21 December 2006 (CST)
::::Nevertheless, given the existence of both terms on the show, the current title is not invalid, and the argument that it serves as a useful point of comparison/reference with the vessel's counterpart in the original series may have merit. There is also the logistics of moving such a well-linked article, and the usages of "basestar" in other articles. I do see your point, but the problem may not be severe enough to warrant such a measure. -- [[User:Kingfisher|Kingfisher]] 02:42, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Well, we wouldn't have to change the name on every article, since the term is still basically the same, but we would only change the name on the article itself, with a little modification with the redirects but I think it would just be more...professional if we used it. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 02:50, 21 December 2006 (CST)
::::::We cannot "rid" ourselves of the use of "basestar" since the term has been used in RDM, although not often in recent episodes. Again, Joe's comment fits best here; the status quo serves best here. We already have redirects to all variations so, encyclopedically, all are served. I'm not against the use of "baseship" or "basestar" so long as an article uses them consistently. I am against the changing of the central article name for two reasons: confusion with its Original Series counterpart article as well as changing the name of a popular page. We could ask for a vote on this; but honestly we may be shooting ourselves in the foot over semantics. Remember that Battlestar Wiki works as an encyclopedia and we will mess things up by changing things about for small reasons. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:30, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:::::::Well no, I wouldn't go as far as ask for a vote, nor do I mind leaving it as "Basestar". I was simply wondering if we would not prefer the best use of the term to the one we've been hearing. We were given an official one, but it doesn't matter, we'll keep "Basestar", but I would ask that we start placing "Base Ship" if we can, though not actually go back and change things.....--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 21 December 2006 (CST)

=="Encounters With Colonial Fleet"==
Should we change the name of this section to "Appearances" since now that Baltar is over there we have a lot more on the Baseships without it necessarily being an encounter with the Colonial fleet. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:27, 16 November 2006 (CST)

== Basestar modifications ==

Should there be some mention of how all the basestars seen after "Exodus Part II" have a different appearance? Many details are different, such as the window pattern in the central hub, the hull pattern in the sections between the arms, more "pronounced" raider bays, and rows of what look like guns on the arms? -- [[User:Kingfisher|Kingfisher]] 00:55, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:If we do, we should add it in a BTS section since the change isn't supposed to actually "happen". I asked Bradley Thomspon on the matter about a month ago [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques#New_Baseship_Design], and this is what he said-

: '''''"We're always upgrading the imagery (compare the Centurions from Season 1 to those of Season 3, for example). Gary Hutzel, Mike Gibson and the VFX crew decided to echo the internal design elements of the base ship on the exterior"'''''

:So it seems that the change is actually a retcon for the Base Ship appearance. They also seem to be smaller than the other Base Ships, which is why I wondered if maybe it was a new Base Ship model, but it seems it's just a retcon and they officially have always looked like this. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:30, 21 December 2006 (CST)

*Hey, I added the comment to the notes section. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:36, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Original Basestar Update? ==

With the fascinating and nostalgic version of the Cylon War-era basestar as seen in the [[Razor Flashbacks]], we should update this article, with the classic basestar (with pic) shown chronologically with what we see there. Like its modern version of 40 years later, it is a gigantic missile platform and launches [[Raider (RDM)|Raiders]] (an article that also needs a similar update to this one). This information needs to be coordinated with the [[Basestar (TOS)]] and [[Raider (TOS)]] articles for comparison and disambiguation/contrast. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:28, 25 October 2007 (CDT)
: That's fine by me. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 01:37, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

To be honest this page needs a major overhaul. It focuses far too much on battles and encounters with the Cylons. That whole part can be severely condensed or even cut entirely. The page doesn't have anything about the basestar interior. With the Baltar arc in Season 3 we have some information and pictures about that (better if we had DVD or iTunes caps). --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:57, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

:I've completed the ''Razor'' additions, creating two sections for original and modern ships. I had originally removed the cleanup tag, but with Serenity's notes about the content, particularly the interior, I'll return it to warrant additional work. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:20, 6 November 2007 (CST)

:: Great work! :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 10:27, 6 November 2007 (CST)

::Well, I removed the superfluous battle section already and the content is fine as it is now. I hope I'll have the time to add something about the interior soon though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:31, 6 November 2007 (CST)

== Hybrid's ship ==

Did anyone notice that the the first hybrid's ship in "Razor" looked conspicuously like a newer basestar? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 10:27, 6 November 2007 (CST)
:It looked like some weird mix of the TOS and RDM basestars. Note that the Hybrid also seems to be sentient and self-aware, unlike the 'modern' Hybrid we saw in "[[Torn]]". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 11:23, 6 November 2007 (CST)
::Yeah, it did. Plus regarding the hybrids: apparently the hybrids seem to have been abandoned, at least according to Sharon, so it makes me wonder whether or not any newer basestars have them aboard. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 11:36, 6 November 2007 (CST)
:::The "evolutionary dead-end" comment is interesting, as the Hybrids seem to be a logical stepping stone inbetween the bio-mechanical Raiders and the fully human-like Cylons. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:41, 6 November 2007 (CST)
::::I'm thinking that the Cylons under the first Hybrid were looking to be more bio-mechanical, cyborg like than their more organic successors. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 11:45, 6 November 2007 (CST)

== Organic Design ==

In Season 4 we see that the Rebel Faction's basestar is organic (which we assumed from Torn) in faith we see that where it's missing "limbs" used to be there are massive "wounds".

Also in "Guess whats coming to dinner" Natalie says the their basestar will Heal over time, maybe like the hive ships of the Wraith in SG-Atlantis. I'm going to mention this in the article.

User:Centurion

2008-04-19T19:22:29Z

Centurion: Changed Picture

{{Character Data
|photo=CyDorFiv.jpg
|seen= Downloaded
|actor= N/A
|cylon= y
|name= Centurion
}}

Hey this is my page, Centurion. Not much to say really, i mainly patrol the Cylon (RDM) pages and edit minor details about the back story of the Cylons and intricate little details that may have been missed. I want to become more active with the New season and will hopefully be one of the first to update the Cylons pages.

Talk:Six of One/Archive 1

2008-04-18T15:04:54Z

Centurion:

== Casting Head Baltar?!? ==
[http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=battlestar#sr] Why would they be casting "Head Baltar"? The only reason I can think of is that James Callis has finally grown so much facial hair he can't just shave and regrow as he used to. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 14:53, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
:That's probably why. I have a feeling that Baltar is going to be a bit of a "religious" personage, he'll probably be sporting quite the growth. See [[Beard of Organized Labor]] for a bit of beard background. :) [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 15:01, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
:Age is also a possibility, but I'll wait until more information is known, before I engage in speculation about this. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:02, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, virtual Baltar could appear to Six as a child or an old man. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:00, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

They probably casted a stand in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:25, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

== Seven of Nine ==

It seems like the name for this episode "Six of One" is a reference to the Star Trek: Voyager character '''Seven of Nine''' (another TV show that RMD had a hand in). On a personal note: I think that the name "Six of One" is about how Caprica Six will find true individuality, outside of the Cylon "Collective", or at least acceptance among the Galactica crew (like Athena). Any thoughts? [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 00:20, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
:As noted on the page, the full idiom is "Six of one, half dozen of the other". The Cylons don't have that much similarities with the Borg and limited shared memories at most. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:14, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
:: True but it could also be an "easter egg" for the fans (like me) that have way to much time on their hands. [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 01:35, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
:::There's also six known Cylons in the colonial fleet, and six unboxed Cylon models in the Cylon fleet. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:00, 26 June 2007 (CDT)
::::What if they add a 13th Cylon to the mix? Just to throw us even more off than the whole "Saul is a Cylon". [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 21:36, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
:::::There isn't any reason why there ''can't'' be another recently created Cylon model, but that falls under [[Battlestar Wiki:Fanwanking|fanwanking]] rather than plausible speculation. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:45, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
::::::I think its obviously based from the saying "Six of one, half dozen of the other". I think that fitting a Trek reference into this is stretching it a bit, I don't think its got anything to do with 7 of 9. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:12, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

== [[w:The Prisoner|Prisoner]] reference? ==

Given that Six's [[w:Number Six (The Prisoner)|name]] is inspired by that very show, it seems it wouldn't be wholly off to say this might well be another reference. Anyone agree or disagree? [[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 23:35, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
* I'd be inclined to agree, but it might be best to leave it out unless the screenwriters say it was a reference, or the aired episode has more obvious Prisoner references (people saying "be seeing you", killer balloons, etc.) —[[User: Silly Dan|Silly Dan]] <sub>[[User talk:Silly Dan|(talk)]]</sub> 11:56, 17 February 2008 (CST)

== six of (the) one ==

If Baltar is really "the chosen one", ''Six Of One'' may be referring to his relationship and/or visions of Caprica Six. {{unsigned|Xlynx}}

== The Big Dee ==

Was that "getting the house" line from Lee an indication of a more permanent split between him and Dee? Or am I reading too much into it? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 23:36, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:Not sure, but the split seems kinda permanent now. And going back to Season 3, Dee entered the marriage fully aware that it might not last long, but is happy to be in it while it does. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:42, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:From the comments made in this episode, the split seems permanent. (Thank the Gods!) It is interesting that while Lee didn't have the balls to terminate the relationship, she did... But she knew that the relationship would've ended someday, so she was prepared for that possibility. I really, truthfully hope this means we'll get to see less of her this season, but given some of the comments about Dee having a "dark side" that'll come out this year, I sadly doubt it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
::I prefer that he made some effort to keep their relationship going in "Taking a Break...". Sure, Dualla is right, and the marriage was never a thing that could last for a long time, but Adama just dropping her when it isn't convenient anymore isn't any way to show "balls". This way he he shows some commitment, despite sleeping around with Thrace, and the whole thing ended on better terms. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

== Questions ==

A few of the entries in the questions section seem dubious.
:"Why do the Raiders not want to destroy the Final Five, yet Number Ones, Fours and Fives do?"
IMO the answer is that Raiders don't have the intelligence or motivation to overcome their instincts / programming not to harm Cylons.
:"Will Tory Foster fall under Baltar's spell?"
She was crying in shame and disgust, so I don't consider this plausible.
:"Why was Foster crying during intercourse with Baltar?"
I think this question should be removed. In act 1, when Tigh suggested that Tori seduce Baltar, Tori was disgusted by the prospect, however she decided to go thorugh with the plan despite her revulsion. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 23:59, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:Having seen her with Anders, we definitely know the "always cries" line was bogus. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 00:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:I agree about the tears, but she seems to overcome that initial revulsion a bit, and even get into it at the end. Yes, the tears are probably from her disgust at the start, but that really changes and she even urges Baltar to continue and kisses him, instead of just leaving. And during the conversation, she seems to be captivated a bit by Baltar talking about music, before she leaves. The questions should be replaced by an analysis item or two exploring that. That's really more helpful and interesting than superficial questions. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 00:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
::I've changed the first question, because the Ones, Fours, and Fives don't say that they want to destroy the Final Five. The others seem fair, as Tory seemed to be listening to Baltar. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::If "fall under Baltar's spell" means "become another Baltar groupie", I think it's out of the question. If "fall under Baltar's spell" means "gradually become sympathetic to Baltar", it's plausible, but I think it should be rephrased. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I'll have to disagree, Gordon. There's more to Tory's crying than simple revulsion, although that's the feeling she had initially when Tigh proposed that she get close to Baltar. However with his mesmerizing bravo sierra about "music", his belief that Cylons are people, and that she doesn't quite know what to make of her "Cylon-ness", I have a feeling that she'll enter his cult, particularly since Roslin has one foot in the grave. Should be interesting how everything goes down, and I think we'll see more the next episode, given that Tory does something seriously bad ass for once. Bye, bye [[Cally|bitch]]. :D -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Joe's spot on. Baltar's never had any problems with the ladies, especially Cylon ladies. Also, Joe's analysis of the crying is right on (This is referenced in Grey's Anatomy, the TV show, of all places. I suppose I must admit I watch it; Chler Leigh is hot, and it also makes a great common ground conversation point for older women :) ) ... where was I? Yeah, anyway. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 03:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::I think the real question is why she decided to have sex with him. As for "falling under his spell", I think she could fall in with his cult, but I don't think she's capable of idolizing him like they do. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 09:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::It wouldn't surprise me if she pulled some form of [[Gina]] on the cult. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::"Pull a Gina" like she did with [[Demand Peace]] or "pull a Gina" like she did with the [[Cloud 9]]? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Either one. Emotionally, Tory is in just the same place as Gina... except how they got there differed. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 01:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::The latter possibility ''seems'' a bit extreme at first glance, but everyone he sleeps with seems to go crazy, die or both soon after, so the [[w:Discworld (world)#The power of belief|law of narrative causality]] says she's a ticking time bomb, hopefully she won't be able to get her hands on any warheads. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
First of all, Tigh didn't suggest that she sleeps with Baltar. This should be corrected in the article. He said "You don't have to get on your back for him". She could have just flirted and strung him along until she found if he knows something.
Second, she really didn't have to sleep with Baltar, especially since he was talking anyway, without much prompting from her. And what does she do after his melody speech? Instead of staying and trying to find out more, she runs away, visibly shaken by what he said. And then she jumps in bed with him right afterwards?! If she were that repulsed by the idea of sleeping with him, why did she do it? Sorry, guys, but since their conversation, she didn't seem repusled by him, this is only your wishful thinking, I'm afraid. She was clearly touched by his words... it looks to me like Baltar might have just converted her, or at least started to, to monotheism...she may be the first of the Four to accept her Cylon nature.
Third, how is Tory "in the same place" as Gina?! Please explain! I don't see any similarity?!
[[User:FrakkinToasterLover|FrakkinToasterLover]]
:You can just change such small things yourself. Just some words here and there. I just did that :) I think the analysis item covers the uncertain nature of Foster's action well enough (it's different from some of the posts here). It mentions that she is captivated by Baltar's words and sleeps with him despite her revulsion. Furthermore it states that the cause of her crying, as well as how far Baltar has charmed her, are somewhat unclear. How that develops remains to be seen and will be analyzed in the next episode guide(s) then.-- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:15, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the most dubious question is what will happen to the fleet's sewage. Does nobody else think this is just pathetic? {{unsigned|MiAd}}
:Just like many of the overly technical and trivial questions. But we can hardly go around and remove everything we don't like, so only the ''really'' stupid stuff gets removed. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Well, we know that ''Galactica'' is capable of nearly 100% water replenishment. One would assume that the Bucket's own waste management system supplements that system... The ones that'd really need this ship are the other civvie ships, which aren't capable of long-term sewage. Further, the ship is reported to be submarine like, and thus small... which makes it easily expendable, since it doesn't have the living space to support the Fleet's citizens.
:: Besides, they could always rip a page or three from the Empire's handbook and just jettison their junk before they jump to lightspeed. :D -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The question "Is the Eight dancing in front of Cavil Sharon Valerii? Does this signify anything?" is unimportant/answered. A dancing/training Eight appeared in "[[Torn]]" already, and the reason why Cavil watches is that she is nude. Baltar in "Torn" was more polite ;-) --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 21:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:Given the later developments of the episode, the logical inference is that we're seeing a Cavil petitioning Boomer for her vote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::That and they may have a relationship. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
:::That's completely absurd. We know that Eights are inclined to non-sexualized nudity ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Torn]], and have absolutely no other reason to make such an inference. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::::The episode has a few possible hints of something going on between the One and Boomer. It's ambiguous, particularly because she's an Eight, however I think that the scene at least foreshadows Boomer siding with the Ones. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

:This one: "With the Demetrius leaving under Starbuck's command, how will the Fleet's sewage be dealt with?"... The main question is, do we really care? What are the chances the writers are going to devote screentime to the dramatic tensions of sewage processing? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::True, of course, but by the same logic we would have to remove about half the questions in most articles, because they will never be addressed or answered either. While not a small number of questions are indeed trivial and even groan inducing, there are some good rhetorical ones that just serve to get one to think about something. (not including this one :p) However, in general, I'm not a fan of how the question section is often used to ask about seemingly most minor and irrelevant things. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

== "Admiral Atheus"? ==

I could've sworn she said "Admiral Atheist", not "Atheus". Anyone care to confirm? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:Mhhh, could be, although I can't really hear the "t" at the end. "Atheus" would fit too, but despite the ancient Greek influences in the show, it's a very obscure reference. So "atheist" is more logical. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:: That's what I was thinking. Frankly, I feel she just didn't enunciate when she was speaking... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, it I misread something. "Atheus" is not a name, but it's simply greek for "atheist". Probably even the root of the modern word. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Atheus is actually how us southerners pronounce atheist ;-) -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

== Helo might not be going with Thrace on the ''Demetrius'' ==

From the dialogue:
:Adama: Helo handpicked a crew for you. I'm giving you a ship. Hope you can stand the smell.
:Agathon: We liberated the ''Demetrius''. It's a sewage recycling ship. Party line will be that we're going on a scouting mission, looking for food.
When Helo says "we", he could be referring to the Fleet's military command sending them out, and not "we" as in Kara and him. And Helo is CAG, he is needed on ''Galactica'' and too visible to be sent out on a "maybe Kara is right" sideshow mission. We'll see soon enough ...-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 04:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:If you wish to be spoiled, look at the pics in ''[[The Road Less Travelled]]'' for the answer. However, you will probably get a much better response for this type of discussion at [http://www.battlestarforum.com/ Battlestar Forum]. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

==Lee's Toasts==
These are quite close to the real world traditional naval toasts - This along with Helo's providing a special box of glasses to carry them out suggests to me that the drinking of these might be a common ritual for departing officers. Not sure if it's worth chucking in the article somewhere but it's here for now.

Naval Toasts (RN)
:Sunday ............... Absent friends. - Used Directly
:Monday ...............Our ships at sea. - "Galactica"
:Tuesday .............. Our men. - "The Men and Women of Galactica"
:Wednesday ..........Ourselves (as no one else is likely to concern themselves with our welfare). - "The Admiral...etc"
:Thursday ............. A bloody war or a sickly season.
:Friday ..................A willing foe and sea room.
:Saturday ............. Sweethearts and wives (may they never meet). - used more or less directly.
[[User:Grible|Grible]] 10:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

== Possible Error? ==

Natalie's shock about Boomer joining the Ones, Fours and Fives about the reconfiguration of the raiders surprised me as was it not her own model that had this same assurance on New Caprica when Caprica Six did not agree with the other Sixes (along with the other Cylons), about using harsher measures. Error in writing perhaps? -- [[User:Centurion|Centurion]] 16:04, 18 April 2008 (GMT)

Talk:Six of One/Archive 1

2008-04-18T15:02:05Z

Centurion: /* Possible Error? */ new section

User:Centurion

2008-04-18T11:41:46Z

Centurion: Added Text

[[Image:CyDorFiv.jpg|thumb|This is a Cavil who wanted a way to look 30 years younger, result, hijack a five!]]

Hey this is my page, Centurion. Not much to say really, i mainly patrol the Cylon (RDM) pages and edit minor details about the back story of the Cylons and intricate little details that may have been missed. I want to become more active with the New season and will hopefully be one of the first to update the Cylons pages.

User:Centurion

2008-04-17T20:57:33Z

Centurion: New page: The Final Five!

[[Image:Image:CyDorFiv.jpg|right|350px|The Final Five!]]

Number Five

2008-04-17T19:45:32Z

Centurion: Added Info about the copies present in Six of One

{{Character Data
|photo=Doral.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role=Cylon Infiltrator, Dissenter
|rank=
|actor=[[Matthew Bennett]]
|cylon=Y
|name=Aaron Doral
}}

"'''Number Five'''", known to the humans as '''Aaron Doral''', appears to be a man in his mid-thirties. He is initially encountered aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', where he is operating as a public relations executive. Later he is active both within the fleeing Colonial fleet and on [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]]. He seems designed to network, almost to the point of being the sleazy used-car salesman type, but with a sadistic, violent side.

But Doral is a [[humanoid Cylon]] in reality. The Doral model's purpose is to attempt to sow the seeds of discontent or confusion, particularly during crucial life-threatening situations. Doral models endeavor to undermine authority that threatens his objectives. Doral models are more covert than the dazzling [[Number Six|Sixes]], assuming an ordinary "everyman" appearance blended in what may seem to be insignificant behind-the-scenes issues (such as converting ''Galactica'' into a museum). Fives are among the most militant, fanatic and consistent to the Cylon objectives (only the [[Number Three|Three]]s match them), whether they are dispassionately discussing the fate of humanity with his comrades or attempting to kill or maim Colonials in a suicide bomb attack ([[Litmus]]).

__TOC__
== PR Executive Copy ==

Doral appears to be exactly what he claims when first seen in the [[Miniseries]]: a PR executive. He coordinates the ceremony surrounding ''Galactica'''s decommissioning and transfer to the civilian authorities represented by Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]]. During the lead-up to the ceremony, he mocks ''Galactica'' as antiquated and advocates automated defense systems (which would be more vulnerable to Cylon interference).

In the role of PR executive, Doral is efficient, polite and able to carry out his work without ruffling the feathers of those around him, while at the same time marshaling and managing the media. He usually wears an emerald suit and tie.

When Laura Roslin, as senior government official, takes charge of ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'' during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], Doral immediately objects to her leadership immediately after her announcement to the passengers of the nuclear attacks on the various colonies ("Wait a minute...who put you in charge?"). Later, Doral tries to convince [[Lee Adama]] to assume the leadership role from Roslin. Captain Adama witnesses and supports Roslin and her leadership decisions, which quickly puts Doral in his place.

Following Gaius Baltar's arrival on ''Galactica'', Doral becomes the fall-guy Baltar needs to divert any suspicions he feels may otherwise be directed at him following the Cylon incursion into the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. In this, he is partially steered by [[Number Six]] - although the selection of Doral as his fall-guy appears to be Baltar's own choice by educated guess.

Arrested and thrown into the brig, Doral loudly proclaims his innocence of all charges, citing his background and upbringing: that he was born in [[Oasis]], a hamlet near [[Caprica City]], and grew up on the south side of Caprica City itself before going to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], where he studied public relations at the Kobol Colleges.

Later, after being left at the [[Ragnar Anchorage]] space station, Doral exhibits all of the symptoms initially shown by the humanoid Cylon [[Leoben Conoy]], confirming the fact that he is a Cylon and that, however "coincidentally," Baltar selected the "right" man.

Despite his protestations of innocence, and the palpable level of fear he demonstrates within the brig, it is unlikely (based on later characterizations of humanoid Cylons who infiltrate the Fleet) that this Doral copy is a "sleeper" Cylon. Unlike [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]], this Doral knew of his true nature. He is rescued and debriefed by a group of his fellow humanoid Cylons, including another Number Five ([[Miniseries]]).

== Suicide Bomber Copy ==
[[Image:Litmus_Doral.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Aaron Doral in his suicide bomber role aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''.]]
A copy of Doral also turns up on ''Galactica'' as a suicide bomber, using explosives he steals from a small-arms locker to create a primitive bomb he detonates in a corridor of the ship after being challenged by [[William Adama]].

At the time of the explosion, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] suggests that Doral's intended target was [[Gaius Baltar]]. There is little direct evidence to back-up Starbuck's claim. Sergeant [[Hadrian]]'s investigation into the matter establishes that the small arms locker used by Doral is located relatively close to the flight pod (where Doral would have come aboard). Therefore, the fact that the locker and Baltar's lab resided on the same deck may have been coincidental.

Doral appears to spend some time wandering through the ship before detonating his bomb, which suggests he may have been looking for a target of opportunity, such as a command staff member or sensitive area such as [[CIC]] ([[Litmus]]).

== Caprican Overseer Copy ==
[[Image:CyDorFiv.jpg|thumb|Five in his overseer role.]]
On Caprica, Number Five performs the role of a Cylon overseer, working with Number Six to ensure their experiment involving the stranded [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] either reaches its desired conclusion, or is suitably terminated ("[[Bastille Day]]", "[[Litmus]]", "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]"). He wears a red suit, more utilitarian than that of his PR executive counterpart.

In this, Five shows a harder attitude towards humans than Six. When she expresses regret that the destruction of humanity was necessary in order for the Cylons to achieve their ends, he is not so forgiving:

:'''Six''': "This all makes me so sad."
:'''Five''': (matter-of-fact) "They would have destroyed themselves anyway. They deserve what they got."
:'''Six''': "We're the children of humanity. That makes them our parents in a sense."
:'''Five''': "True - but parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own."
::-- ''[[Bastille Day]]''

Later, however, when Six is disdainful of Valerii's apparent feelings for Agathon when the Caprican experiment goes awry, Five is more sympathetic, wondering what it must be like to be driven by passion that marks Agathon's action: "Even in his anguish he seemed....so alive" ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

==Other Copies==

In "[[Final Cut]]", a Number Five is one of the Cylons that watches [[D'Anna Biers]]'s broadcast. He comments that the life of Sharon and Helo's [[Hera Agathon|hybrid child]] must be protected at all costs.

Several copies of Number Five are seen on Cylon-occupied Caprica throughout "[[Downloaded]]", the episode that reveals that he is the fifth in the sequence of twelve Cylon models. A Five is one of the four 'rebirth nurses' that welcome first [[Caprica-Six]] and (much) later [[Sharon Valerii|''Galactica''-Sharon]], the "[[Heroes of the Cylon]]" back to life after their respective downloads into new bodies. He tells Boomer that the Cylons are proud of her. Another copy is serving coffee at the cafe which is bombed by [[Samuel Anders]]'s resistance group, while yet another rescues "Caprica" and Sharon from the ruins of a garage later the same day.

A Five is part of the leading group during the invasion of [[New Caprica]], along with the aforementioned "Heroes of the Cylon". Fitting his personality archetype, this Five is quite direct in his insistence that the Colonials surrender without resistance to the Cylon armada ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

The humanoid Cylon leading the force of Centurions outside the temple on New Caprica is not seen, but is identifiable as a Five by his voice ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance#Episode 4|The Resistance: Episode 4]]).

The Fives Sided with the Ones along with the Fours in the decision to Lobotomize the [[Raider (RDM)|Raiders]] to attempt to revert them back to their state prior to the [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula]]. Two were Shot in the conference room by the two Centurions after they, the Cavil and the Fours refused to stop the legitimization of the Raiders ([[Six of One]]).

==Notes==
*[[W:Doral, Florida|Doral]] is the name of a recently formed city in [[W:Miami-Dade County, Florida|Miami-Dade County, Florida]]. It was formerly a census-designated place, named for a golf and resort spa within its boundaries. The resort was orignally named for its builders '''Dor'''is and '''Al'''fred Kaskel. Doral is also the name of a popular cigarette brand.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Number Five]]
[[Category:Characters|Number Five]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Number Five]]
[[Category:Recurring Guest Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons|Number Five]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Number Five]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Doral, Aaron]]
[[Category:RDM|Number Five]]

[[de:Nummer Fünf]]
[[es:Número Cinco]]
[[fr:Numéro Cinq]]

Talk:Number Four/Archive 1

2008-04-17T19:28:43Z

Centurion:

Simon says: "Ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-stop-shooting-me-ow-ow-ow-stop-stabbing-me-ow-ow-ow..."

Is it just me, or did Simon's appearance fall under the "[http://www.feoamante.com/Movies/Racial/racial_1960.html "Black Guy dies first / fastest"] cinema cliche? Not to start any arguments of any useful nature, but it just struck me that Simon's copies got whacked on average (screen time) much faster. (The link I posted seemed weird enough to add for humor or "WTF" responses.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:00, 22 November 2005 (EST)

:I don't know, man. He certainly wasn't the first Cylon to die, and I don't know about fastest to die either. It seems to me that Doral blowing himself up or random Sixes or Sharons getting shot on Caprica or blown up in orbit above Kobol were rather "fast" deaths.

:I think he was just caught by surprise b/c he was assuming that Starbuck didn't know about him and must not have believed there were any weapons she could use in the room. He is one of my "favorite" Cylons.

:What do you think about the diversity in the show? In TOS, there were two Black characters who were recast as White characters in the RDM series. I thought that was strange since there is generally more diversity and "gender-equality", but it seems like Simon is one of very few Black characters, although there is the addition of Asian and Latino characters like Sharon and Adama. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 14:21, 22 November 2005 (EST)

::Oh, I think diversity is pretty good in the show. I wouldn't even pick nits about the lack of blacks as commanders in the show, since the Original Series already did that with Terry Carter. For the most part I thought about Simon's fate very humorously, so I hope I'm not coming off as some PC, overly racially-sensitive type. I think RDM is going to show us how Cylon culture's faring on their new homes, and I'd be really amused at the relative lack of diversity with their humano-Cylons, both genetically and personally--seems to me that the Valeriis aren't very different in terms of how they react to things--the same personality. I appreciate the gender equality--girls who kick ass, like Starbuck, are always fun to watch. We've seen many supporting roles such as Elosha and Venner that have depth and interest, so in the end, race isn't that much of an issue. But Simon better learn to heal himself as I think he gets offed far too quickly. Think about it: We lose the first Six about 30 minutes into the Mini-Series, and Leobens have a short shelf life. Valeriis get offed by the dozen, although a couple persist. I don't know, I guess I should worry more about Leoben, but then I know more about him than Simon. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:33, 22 November 2005 (EST)

== Dead ==

Why is he listed as dead? Just because two copies died on Caprica doesn't mean there are other Cylon copies of him out there. --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 21:50, 11 February 2006 (EST)

== Cylon Number ==
I don't know what other people think, but now that four of the twelve Cylon model numbers are accounted for, can we put a note on Conoy saying something to the effect of, "Simon is either Number 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, or 10? I couldn't figure out how to place it.--[[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 18:39, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Again, this makes no sense to say "well, it's one of this list of 8"; far too complicated. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:15, 25 February 2006 (EST)

==Image Talk==

I think the image that was on before was better than this one, since it was clearer and showed his face better. This one is the common choice, since its one of the first shots, but I think the outside, day, well kempt close shot is better.Any comments?--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 3 April 2006

:I also prefer the older one, marginally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:45, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

::I prefer the older one for the more 8x10ish portrait quality. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:37, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

== Another atheist cylon? ==

I think it was the episode Torn but didn't Boomer (or another 8) imply Simon was an atheist (much like Cavill). She said something like you can't even speak his name or something similar when God came up. -- [[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 17:00 18 January 2007.

:No. Simon says, in Torn: "God has chosen this time, this place, to test us. Whether we fail or pass the test is up to us." The comment you're thinking of was an exchange between a Five (Doral) and an Eight (Sharon):
:'''Five:''' Perhaps God would smile upon us for our mercy.
:'''Eight:''' Oh, listen to you. You can barely even speak His name.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:29, 18 January 2007 (CST)
::That was Leoben actually, who said the above, not Simon, the cc got it wrong. As for Simon being atheistic, there's no reason to believe he is, especially when he does say there is no answer in science or whatever. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:20, 19 January 2007 (CST)
:::Leoben is one of the stronger believers is he not. I thought Simon was the one who seemed to doubt but maybe it was Doral...can't see it being Leoben though. He is probably the most faithful among the male cylons. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 25 January 2007.
::::I think Simons, Fives, Eights and Threes all vary in their devotion. In these models religion depends more on the individual than on say Six, Leoben and Cavil, of whom all copies of a given model seem to have the same type of view on religion. Anyways, we don't really know any of these, so it's speculation. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:17, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:::::The Fours, along with the Fives have sided with Cavil on the Issue of the Raiders clearly showing that this particular model is more interested in the destruction of the Survivors than the progression of the Cylons as a people. So far the Ones are the only model confirmed on screen as an atheist model but maybe the Fours just use "Rational analysis" and believe that their God uses Science rather than Divine Magic, or maybe they are not strict in their views and are either undecided or have no view on the matter. --[[User:Centurion|Centurion]] 20:27, 17 April 2008 (GMT)

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.

2008-01-21T19:12:56Z

Centurion: My Account Reply

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== What is your fav episode? (survey) ==

Please answer ASAP... {{unsigned|Pooh the hat}}

{{my account}}

Hey this is Centurion just to let you know that the accounts "centurian" and "chicken" were mistakes and errors and that "Centurion" is my desired account.

P.s. Sorry if this is in the wrong area.