Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Here Be Dragons/Archive 1

2014-01-24T23:44:19Z

Caldumidoan: /* Why sailing ships? */

{{newsection link}}

== Why sailing ships? ==

I cannot accept the proposed answer. An ocean vessel is a different kind than a sailing ship. Sailing ships are fragile, unreliable, slow. I cannot think of sailing ships as a mean of transportation after the invention of space travel. That is ridicoulus. --[[User:Nuntius|Nuntius]] 08:51, 19 January 2014 (EST)

:I think the answer, as well as the notion that building sailing ships is ridicoulus, misses an important point: The colonists had apparently fled in a hurry from Kobol. Although they got from Kobol to the Colonies in advanced space ships, probably carrying a lot of high-tech gadgets, they likely didn't bring much to produce such things, or the things that power them. So they had to start mostly from the bottom, using whatever was available. Even though they had the knowledge of how to mine for ore, how to turn it into pure metal and how to build things out of metal, getting that process up and running would take some time. Until then, wood would be the only available material for building vehicles, and the most readily available power source would be the wind (sailing) or man-power (rowing). Even once they got metal production going, they might have choosen to use the metal primarily for basic needs, such as axes, saws, hammers, plows and so on, as well as expanding their industrial capacity, and stick to wood where they could do so for the time being. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 18:44, 24 January 2014 (EST)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy

2012-07-10T14:49:46Z

Caldumidoan: /* Spoiler policy: please rethink */

{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 01
| number = 1
| start = July 17th, 2005
| end = September 14th, 2005
| items = {{archive-item|01|Complaints and Concerns}} {{archive-item|01|Spoiler Warning}} {{archive-item|01|What is a spoiler?}} {{archive-item|01|Vote}} {{archive-item|01|When does this vote close?|end=Y}}
|}}
{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 02
| number = 2
| start = September 14th, 2005
| end = September 23rd, 2005
| items = {{archive-item|02|Compromise #1}} {{archive-item|02|Discussion|end=Y}}
|}}

__TOC__

==External Links==
Links to Wikipedia using the Wikipedia: interwiki namespace still show up inside spoiltext. Example

{{spoiltext|[[Wikipedia:Battlestar Galactica|Battlestar Galactica]] [http://www.google.com Google]}}

Fix: add this to the CSS:
td.spoiltext_box a.extiw {color: #000;}
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:29, 23 September 2005 (EDT)
:It is now fixed... a year later. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:32, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
::Shane.. fix the hover css Spoiler outside link code... [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:21, 1 January 2008 (CST)
::Fixed. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:35, 1 January 2008 (CST)

== "Spoiler Boxes" ==
:''moved from [[Helana Cain]]''
The spoiler boxes have a serious flaw--you can't see the "this is a spoiler" line at the top when you're using the Monobook skin. It's too dark to read. I highlighted and ended up seeing the spoiler, and I didn't want to. Of course now I know what the box is and I won't highlight it anymore, but I would appreciate it if the box could be edited to be compatible with all the skins. Thanks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 00:16, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
::I think oncer the "new" design is active, the CSS will be updated for a single skin and then that skin will be changed so CSS would be the primary way to color tables, instead of hardcoding values. The other skins joe should have deleted (as he did before the 1.6.x upgrade) to make sure we all worked from one skin when working on the site. So that's with the problem with the monoskin right now. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:15, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

==Ron D Moore personally addresses the recent spoilers issue==
:''Moved from [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad]]''

I was in a discussion with Ron's wife Terry on the messageboard in [http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1791636&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=11266ab308ea04f98580cf16eae24b66#Post1791636 this thread], when she then handed the keyboard over to Ron Moore himself and he posted the following messagee, about two minutes ago:

:I want to ask all of you, and KoenigRules in particular, to please refrain from posting detailed spoilers about our upcoming season. It's only April, and we're a long way from the premiere in October, and it's frankly dispiriting and depressing to all of us on the production team to see spoilers appearing this early. We're all working very hard to provide the audience with a unique experience and it takes a lot of the joy out of our process when we know that people have already judged the work before it's ready. This isn't about secrecy or having a NSA-like production, it's about letting the artisans and craftsmen on this show finish their work before it's displayed. Short descriptions of scenes and storylines aren't the same thing as watching an episode of the show and by putting this material out there for everyone to chew over months in advance, it really only allows people to make up their minds about a piece of work that is incomplete by any measure.

:I understand the desire to peek inside the tent. I've felt it myself about many projects from the Star Wars sequels to new episodes of Project Runway, and there's nothing juicier than getting the inside dope. However, there's a difference between that one on one insider knowledge and shared secret and posting it on the internet where it gets passed around literally the entire world or putting in on a radio show for all to hear.

:There's nothing I can do to stop this kind of thing from happening. When I was at Trek, we tried every known method of encoding scripts and plots and they always got out. The only thing I can do is appeal to your sense of decency and fair play and ask that you not spoil the larger fan community that cannot help but be aware of these things as they get massive distribution through the message boards. Self-restraint on the part of those in possession of inside information is the best way to prevent this from happening all through the Spring and Summer, so I appeal to you as fans of the show to help me keep the cloak over this piece of art until it's been polished and ready to be presented to you, the audience.

:I appreciate your consideration,
::Ronald D. Moore

In light of this, I think we should change our decision. I originally had the lukewarm idea that if other news sites like Gateworld and Galacticastation ran one of these stories, we might as well run it too, but only if they did it first. However, I have now completely rejected this idea: we shouldn't post anything more than "generic episode descriptions" which don't actually give away essential plot elements. At first I thought it pointless to try to stem the tide as Gatewold and GS might just report it anyway, but I now really think it is our duty to set precedent on the matter and not post spoilers that are this sensitive, if they have been leaked from anonymous sources. Granted, if Lucy Lawless herself spills the beans in an interview with a magazine that's between her and the production team; moreoever, if they wanted her to stop they could hold up her Screen Actors Guild confidentiality papers and give her a warning. But ''any'' support, even tacitly, of these spoilers, I don't think we can or should do anymore. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:16, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
: I think this pretty much sums this debate up. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:22, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
: Here's the point where I feel I must play devil's advocate, as it were: Ron D. Moore doesn't run Battlestar Wiki. I appreciate the fact that he doesn't want story lines and important plot points spilled out. I can understand that. However, as long as we have the appropriate warnings in place, I do not see the point in ''not'' posting the spoilers. We're really not in the business of censoring information, just because someone asks us to do so. Am I wrong? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:37, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
::You are not wrong. But I been pointing to send posting anonoymous soruces as a legit way for referreces is not a good idea. People who are still in Season 2 (UK) have no seen three Episode names for Season 3. We need to just be carefull, if we allow anonoymous soilers and spoilers alike, that we be carefull that they be totallt seperate. And seasons that have not offically started keep out the "Episode Data" block also. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:44, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Well I can understand why you're saying that Joe, but I've really got to differ on the matter. There's a difference in my mind between "an actor or crewman leaked this out, and if they wanted it to stop they could give them a warning" and "this person is anonymous, and thus is free from being punished by the production company for breach of contract or simply because they don't want people doing that". Lets see what everyone else thinks. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:47, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
::I agree with Moore on this, as I did during our initial discussion of the spoiler policy many months ago. Nevertheless, this is a settled issue on Battlestar Wiki. Do we really want to re-open it? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:29, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv, your "stand" has changed four times and now this spans two pages so I am trying to "keep" the posted times right in my head. I think we need to really move these discussions to their own page so everything is together. Peter, I understand that this is a project of Citation and spolier poilcy, but this is becomeing to confusing on where everyone stands. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:50, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
::::It's very simple. The discussion on Citation Jihad is about whether we should allow anonymous sources. The discussion here is about whether we should revise the spoiler policy. The two topics may have originated with the same controversy, but they are not related, nor should they be confused. If The Merovingian wants us to revisit the horribly contested and partisan spoiler policy debate from last fall, this is the place he needs to propose it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:53, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

I admit it's a little confusing Shane: well, officially (as you can see above with the most recent thing): I do not think we should use anonymous spoilers information, because RDM implored everyone not to, and we're only aiding whoever the leak is; if they're afraid of revealing themselves because they think they're breaching a non-disclosure contract or something and thus doing something actually illegale, I don't think we should support that by reporting their information here. Further, it's not always right as it's based on early scripts. Well, that's where I stand on the subject, though I don't know how everyone else thinks. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:39, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

:I agree that RDM request should override any other concerns for ethical reasons. It is analogous to insider-trading info. Remember the conversation between Apollo and Tigh about the black market. If we do it because everyone does, it doesn't make us right, just whole lot of people wrong. --[[User:Gougef|Frankie Gouge]] April 26, 2006 21:40 EDT

:: I, myself, try not to read spoilers. Sometimes, I accidentally do while I'm editing a page or something, but I take that as my "fault" kind of, for editing that page. It happens and usually it's not a big show ruiner for me. I would not oppose re-opening this debate, but I don't know that we ''need'' to, either. My main concern about spoilers is that, even if they're from a citable, reliable source, they're often wrong (because they get changed before air-date or whatever). Also, I am kind of partial to the idea of doing as RDM asks because I respect him as a creator and he asked in a nice, mature, respectful (to us fans) way. I do, however, allow that a rational person could disagree. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:39, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

Hey, this is Commander Me. I would be willing to help translate the Spoiler Policy page into German. Just contact me at my user talk for more info. --Commander Me.
: check out http://www.battlestarwiki.org/de/w/Battlestar_Wiki:Spoiler_Richtlinien

== Questions Section ==

I seen recently a lot of spoiler info come into these sections in the form of {{tl|spoiltext}} for answeres, but with the [[BW:ES]] project, shouldn't we keep the real Answers, even in {{tl|spoiltext}} out until the Episode shows IF the spolier comes from a known episode? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:25, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
: Provided that the Spoiler Policy and Citation Jihad are adhered to, then the spoilers should be encased in {{tl|spoiltext}}, whether the spoiler is in the form of a question or an answer. Furthermore, we should probably go ahead and tack on the spoiler warning to the top of said page, provided that there are enough spoilers on that page to justify it. However, again, the policies need to be adhered to -- if the spoilers come from Joe Smoe and not an official source, then they should be eradicated with prejudice. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 23:10, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
::I don't think a spoiler header is necessary - that indicates that the ''entire contents'' of the tagged page are spoiler material. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:12, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
::Ditto. Unforentently, StrayCat0's contrib, in [[Exodus%2C_Part_I#Questions|Exodus, Part I]] brings this up. (Not singling out StraayCat, because it happened in previous seasons). No cite, so it fails that for right now, but in general, when we do mark these "Questions" answered, we usually go <nowiki>([[Episode Here|Answer)]])</nowiki>, and leave it like this. I am going to created {{tl|spoilli}} to work within numbered lists... {{tl|spoiltext}} ruins a lot of formating. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:19, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
::Actually, it can be read either way -- and after reading it, the connotation seems inconsistent to me, particularly the last sentence of the warning, so I've gone ahead and [[Template talk:Spoiler|proposed a change in wording]]. As for spoiltext, I look forward to a better version of it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 23:56, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

Will the Turkish translation of this article be visible on the main page? Or are we going to wait until we have our own tr.battlestarwiki.org domain? :) [[User:Redlinetheturk|Redlinetheturk]] 09:23, 12 November 2006 (CST)

== Spoilers in the examples ==

Should the example of using the spoiler tags really include a spoiler for those who possibly haven't seen that episode? [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 15:33, 23 January 2008 (CST)
:I have removed it, however, following the policy, it's not considered a spoiler anymore. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:24, 23 January 2008 (CST)

== Spoiler policy: please rethink ==

Having just joined the wiki a few minutes ago, I doubt my opinion will have much weight, but here we go:

I also am a recent fan of BSG. I got the box set a month ago and am now into season 3.

At the beginning, I made a habit of reading the relevant article here on each episode after watching it. That went okay, till Season 2, when out of the blue I find that two characters were revealed to be "Final 5" Cylons, a fact not revealed till Season 4, I think.

Of course when I read an article about an episode, I expect anything that comes up IN THAT EPISODE OR A PREVIOUS ONE to be fair game. I was not expecting facts from episodes broadcast two years later to be.

I guess your "anything broadcast is fair game" policy made sense back when the show was on the air, and most readers here were watching it on live TV.

Now, several years later, that is not the case. There will be people like me, starting the series from the beginning and watching it in sequence, on reruns or DVD or online.

The "Any spoiler anywhere" policy you have have means that I, and any other new viewer, will avoid this site like the plague once they've been burnt. I was very disappointed, as the contemporary quotes from producers and writers collected here was quite illuminating to read after watching. But not at the cost of having major future plot points revealed.

You may be fine with that, but this policy drives away new fans. [[User:AlanHK|AlanHK]] 11:06, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

: Hi Alan,

: Before I begin to address your concern, I wish to express my appreciation for the time and effort you took to bring up your viewpoint. As project leader, I do understand that there are doubtless folks that feel as you do. However, the intent of this website is to serve as a reference for everything that occurs (or is part of) on any of the ''Battlestar'' series.

: The fundamental issue is that anything can be a "spoiler" depending on where people are in watching the series, and so protecting everyone from "spoilers" detracts from the project (which is to collect and disseminate information), because everything on here is a spoiler at one time or another. We cannot protect people from every spoiler, certainly, as "spoilers" are integral parts to the overall story.

: Reality is that we only have a finite amount of contributors (less than 1% of the active fanbase), and the best use of their time is research and collaboration... not protecting people from spoilers. Yes, that's a bit off putting to some, but that's acceptable to me given reality.

: I do understand that people may not visit the website until they've watched the series entirely, that's fine. If people do not use the website because of it, then that's up to them as well. We're like a library... you can use it, or you cannot. We leave that choice to our viewers. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:21, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

:: It's not true that "anything can be a spoiler". I'm not talking about the whole wiki, just the articles about specific episodes. If I look up [[Final Five]], well, I'd expect to find out who they are, and it's my own look-out; but that fundamental "secret" if revealed earlier really, literally, spoils your experience of the show, and I was very pissed off when that happened to me when reading an article about a season 2 episode. Your wiki, your choice, but you are alienating any new fans from reading, let alone participating. I've just watched "Dirty Hands", I'd like to read some backgound on it. But I can't, here, without risking reading something someone added two years after it was broadcast that they thought was "ironic" in light of something that happened in the series finale. I want to read about the episode I've watched now, not months later when I've forgotten the details. I'm not a mega fan, when I watch a show I like to think about it about it, but after I've seen them all I'm not going to rewatch it and analyse it for years later.
::So what I'll do is use the article history and read a version from shortly after the airdate. That will solve the problem for me, but few casual readers are likely to work that out. Really, if you want to grow your fanbase rather than just catering to a gradually declining number of original fans, you need to rethink this. The current fans of the show are less and less those who watched it on the original broadcast. [[User:AlanHK|AlanHK]] 23:40, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

::: I believe at least the episode summary should deal with present, and probably past, episodes only. The Questions section should also stay spoiler free by sticking to the established practice of linking to the answer in a future episode. The Notes and Analysis sections are the most problematic, as potential follow ups based on later aired facts has to appear in the context. It could be possible to hide those follow ups in spoiler boxes, but that would make the section(s) hard to read for the all those that have seen it all. (By the way, my biggest fear after discovering this site and the forum when I was still watching the episodes on television, on a domestic channel lagging a year or so behind SciFi and Sky, as opposed to the "alternative" I later switched over to, was forum signatures. In the end, I was betrayed by my own curiosity when I clicked into an article about something Cylon related and saw the Final Five listed among the Cylons in a box at the bottom.) [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 01:25, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

::: Alan, Yes, it is true that "anything can be a spoiler"... For instance, if you didn't watch the second part of the Miniseries, the fact that Boomer was a Cylon is a spoiler. I do understand that there will be bleed over in facts, but that's the risk. We realize that we can't please everyone, because we are limited by various factors, including the fact that we don't have a lot of people contributing any more, and thus it's more of a task to change articles.

::: As for alienating people, people will be alienated no matter what you do... it's just the extent. Looking at the traffic stats, which have actually increased exponentially since the show stopped airing, I am completely correct in disagreeing with your assessment that our fan base isn't growing... since you do not have that data in front of you, and merely state that "belief" from emotion. Cold hard stats do not lie.

::: As to Caldumidoan's point, I do agree with most of what was said in their comments, and that there are some slip-ups here and there. It's the nature of the beast. The decision early on was to put the responsibility into the hands of the visitors as to what they want to view and see, and not hand-hold them, or at least limit the hand-holding to something more manageable for a staff that works ''pro bono''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 02:52, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

:::: I don't know why you mentioned something in the miniseries being a spoiler for later episodes, I said very clearly what I meant, what most people mean, by a spoiler: Information from episodes broadcast LATER than the one under discussion. You talk about huge traffic, but also "we don't have a lot of people contributing". Maybe that's a sign of alienation? Who knows? I for one might have contributed. I've done over 6000 edits at Wikipedia, and I mod two forums, so I know all about "pro bono" -- about the only recognition I get is being called a fascist for shutting down flame wars, but as above, I won't be reading any current articles under your current "free fire zone for spoilers" policy, so that's out.
:::: Okay, here's what set me off, in [[Fragged]] we have :<blockquote>Could Ellen Tigh's attempts to manipulate the downfall of President Roslin be an indication that she is really a Cylon sent to spread chaos in the Fleet? (Partial Answer:She is a Cylon, but that might not be related to her actions.)</blockquote> AND later <blockquote>There is also the fact that the Colonial landing team includes a member of the Final Five: Galen Tyrol. <blockquote>
::::Why the hell was it necessary to put that in a season 2 article? Why weren't they linked as "Answers" elsewhere so the reader can choose whether they "want to view and see" it as you said? [[User:AlanHK|AlanHK]] 09:07, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
:::::You'll have to ask Human Torch 2 about why the latter was added. It might have seemed like a facinating theory at the time that was added to the only obviously relevant page. The comment about Ellen's nature was actually originally an answer link, but R9tgokunks changed it for reasons unknown. The only thing the admins can answer is why it hasn't been ''removed'' or ''reverted''. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 10:49, 10 July 2012 (EDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy

2012-07-10T05:25:49Z

Caldumidoan: /* Spoiler policy: please rethink */

Talk:Felix Gaeta/Archive 1

2011-12-18T15:15:18Z

Caldumidoan: /* Spoilers, ugh */

{{WWW High Traffic
| site= digg.com
| url= http://www.digg.com/television/BATTLESTAR_GALACTICA_to_get_a_Fourth_Season
| date= 14 Feburary 2007
}}

Gaeta is BSG's answer to Spock, and I think it's a worthy comparison after his work in [[Scattered]]. Damn fine. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:32, 16 Jul 2005 (EDT)

== Role ==

After watching Scattered again recently (my I got my new girlfriend hooked on BSG so I am rewatching all the episodes with her) I noticed that Gaeta refers to himself as the OOD, or Officer On Deck, in the head with Dee. (PS by the way, why were they in the same head? Dee is enlisted, Gaeta is an officer. Moving on.) So here's my question: Is OOD a position or a status? Is the "Tactical Officer" the OOD when he is on duty, or are the two terms simply synonymous? --[[User:Kraetos|Kraetos]] 22:43, 28 May 2006 (CDT)
:I'm fairly certain OOD just means "ranking guy in the room": for example, many a time when Picard and Riker went into Picard's quarters to discuss things, Data "had the bridge". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 23:04, 28 May 2006 (CDT)
::"The Navy has decided to call in three members of the commanding crew of the USS Greeneville. That would be the commanding officer, Scott Waddle, the X.O. or executive officer and the OOD, the officer on deck, a lieutenant junior grade." "And the executive officer and the officer on deck of the USS Greeneville at the time of the accident have been designated as parties to the inquiry. They will be afforded their due process rights, including the right to be represented by counsel." [[http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0102/18/sm.04.html 1]] I concur with Merv. It sounds like a dynamic title (like NCOIC, non-commisioned officer in charge... depends on who's on duty or maybe more of a "rotating" position in terms of who is "on call" for that particular period).

::Dualla: Not your fault, Lieutenant.Not from where I was standing.
::Gaeta: I was the O.O.D.
::Dualla: It was crazy in there, sir. Can't blame yourself.
::--''[[Scattered]]''
::--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:37, 29 May 2006 (CDT)

:::That was my hunch but I wanted to be positive. Plus, I just realized that the way he says "'''WAS'''" the OOD implies that he is only the OOD when he is on duty, meaning it is a status and not a position. Thanks merv and steelviper. --[[User:Kraetos|Kraetos]] 21:10, 29 May 2006 (CDT) (PS sorry I haven't been around much lately. I was busy with school, but I just graduated so I should be back in the fold now!)

== Title in Baltar Administration ==

He's listed as having been the "Presidential Aide." In "Collaborators," he's referred to specifically as Baltar's Chief of Staff. Would it be worthwhile to make a new title caption at the bottom of the page to reflect this? The only reason I ask is because that's a pretty specific position as opposed to the more general classification of "aide." --[[User:Starscream|Starscream]] 22:59, 21 December 2006 (CST)

:Welcome, Starscream. Your information is the more correct one: the first term was used when we didn't have a precise title. Feel free to update Gaeta's title with this in mind. (Note that we normally add notes towards the bottom of the article so it's easier to keep tabs on new stuff, so I moved your comment down this talk page.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:03, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::Speaking of Gaeta: is there any reason to stick with this photo? His civilian career is long over and since he's back in uniform, he should have an appropiate picture as well. --[[User:Spike|Spike]] 02:20, 22 December 2006 (CST)

== Crazy Drawings ==

Does anyone have a screencap of that crazy drawing Gaeta was working on in Exodus, Part II? I'm thinking that may be important in the next half of the season. Didn't RDM say something to that effect, anyway? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:06, 25 December 2006 (CST)
:How's [[md:Image:GaetaSketch.jpg|this?]] --[[User:Saiboogu|Saiboogu]] 02:10, 21 January 2007 (CST)

==Flight Wings==
In all the episodes where we see Gaeta wearing the colonial uniform (blue, duty), he's wearing a set of wings which would indicated to me that he is a qualified pilot. Beyond his role of plotting FTL jumps, however, we see no evidence of any ability to pilot any Colonial craft. Thoughts?[[User:AnteaterFeeder|AnteaterFeeder]] 15:07, 20 January 2007 (CST)

:It's a bit weird, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that all officers have at least basic Raptor training. Maybe not enough to use them effectively in combat, but to get from A to B in a shuttle flight. Though I'm not sure if that should warrant junior wings, which I'd reserve for combat qualified pilots.
:Btw, new topics are usually added at the bottom of the page. It's not a big thing, but I think most people look there if they see a new addition --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:45, 21 January 2007 (CST)
::Actually, every once in a while, especially early in the show, Gaeta is seen without wings. This example pic is from the ceremony at the end of the Miniseries. --06:51, 21 January 2007 (CST) [[Image:Gaetanowings Mini.JPG|thumb|Felix Gaeta without wings ([[Miniseries]]).]]
::That sounds fanwanky. It's probably a costuming glitch. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:41, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::What is a costuming glitch? The fact that he has wings 98% of the time, or the one or two scenes where he doesn't? If it's OK with everyone, I would like to add in the notes section the inference that Gaeta holds some sort of flight status-- even if it's just basic flight. I don't recall seeing Lt. Hoshi, Ens. Thornton or even Capt. Kelly have wings.[[User:AnteaterFeeder|AnteaterFeeder]] 12:17, 26 January 2007 (CST)
::::Yeah. He wears wings almost all the time, so it's likely that he's somewhat qualified. Probably just Raptors though. I wouldn't write that's he's a Viper pilot. The error is in the few cases where he doesn't wear them. And it's a bit fanwanky to write everything I said above, but just saying "Since he wears wings, Gaeta probably has had at least basic flight training" isn't. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:06, 26 January 2007 (CST)

==Pronunciation==

Very, very (very) minor point... Looking at the name 'Gaeta', I always saw it as Latin-esque (whatever the Colonial equivalent of historical Latin would have been - 'Gaius' would be from the same culture, presumably). In Latin, the '-ae-' part would make the name 'GY-ta' rather than 'GAY-ta', and in the Miniseries that seems to be how it was pronounced. Is there some reason we know of why the pronunciation was changed? -- [[User:Sator|Sator]] 15:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
: "Gay-ta" is simply easier to pronounce; they had problems nailing down the pronunciation in the miniseries, where they vacillated between the two pronunciations. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
::Speedy response. Ta. - [[User:Sator|Sator]] 15:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

==Revelation of Gaeta's Secret==

Now that Part 9 of Face of the Enemy reveals what Baltar whispered to Gaeta that got him stabbed with a pen, the Animosity Toward Baltar section (and the accompanying footnote) obviously needs to be updated. Since I haven't done much around here, I didn't want to just go in and mess with what was done previously without discussing it first. Should the footnote be deleted, or just amended? Was the podcast info a ruse, or have they just retconned the conversation to get rid of the dangling subplot? I don't know. [[User:Cvalin|Cvalin]] 06:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
: The original purpose of the scene was to implicate Gaeta in the murders of Sagittarons on New Caprica during the occupation. However, since that was jettisoned, the reason for its existence (at least from inside the story) remain nebulous. Now that the webisode has aired, we see why, and so that is now true canon. However, at the same time, we do need to note the original intent of the scene. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 06:42, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
::That's what I figured, I just wanted to check first. [[User:Cvalin|Cvalin]] 17:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

== What colony is he from? ==

Just watched Caprica finally and now I'm perplexed. I can't find a confirmed source but c'mon, Gaeta fits nearly all the qualifications of being a Tauron. He has tattoos, befriended by Baltar (who was classist against Capricans), plotted murder on New Caprica, plotted a mutiny, smoked, and since Taurons all have dark hair and are "ethnic" looking (as in any country on the Mediterranean) he fits the look no doubt. [[User:Eirikur|Eirikur]] 11:08, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

== Spoilers, ugh ==

I came across this Wiki so I could backtrack and make sure I understood who each of the BSG characters are before proceeding with the series. I'm only in the middle of season two and I've been going through the episodes rapidly. In this entry, it mentions that plot involves abandoning earth, while earth is still the goal from where I stand in the series. This is incredibly frustrating and I wish this Wiki had some sort of spoiler warnings or (like other sites) blacked out spoiler text to avoid accidentally revealing plot turns. It's one thing to post plot information on episode pages, but to post it on character pages is a bit unexpected.

I guess I don't have any use coming back here, since I risk seeing spoilers on any page I visit and after I'm finished with the series I won't care about the information anymore :-\

Thanks for listening.

[[User:Nanamin|Nanamin]] 16:03, 16 December 2011 (EST)

:I understand your frustration as I once did the same mistake myself. But spoiler warnings won't help, because what you came to read would have been spoilers to someone that has only seen the miniseries. Even just the name of some of the characters are spoilers. The only proper solution I can think up is to somehow restict the wiki to only show revisions as they were at the original air date of the first episode each user has not seen, but even this is a lot of work for someone. In the end, I have concluded that in order to avoid spoilers (not including spoilers from those with inside information), one have to either see episodes when they were first shown, or stay away from all sites writing about said show. The latter might include all of Web 2.0, as spoilers might creep up in so called signatures and even nicknames. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 10:15, 18 December 2011 (EST)

Talk:Rapture/Archive 1

2011-10-28T05:54:44Z

Caldumidoan: /* A Change in Six */

== 7th squadron ==

Did anyone else see the 7th squadron logo behind Helo?
[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 16:12, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:Sure did. I'm sure someone may get a screencap of it soon and note it on [[Squadrons of Galactica]]. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:19, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Photo ==

I think it's time to replace Universal logo with a promotional photo. The question is: with which one? My vote goes [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000t5fg5/g282 here]. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 05:36, 23 December 2006 (CST)
:Ditto. Make sure it's uploaded to the Media wiki properly first. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 07:11, 23 December 2006 (CST)
::It already is. Its used on the [[Final five]] page. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 11:06, 23 December 2006 (CST)
:::Ever notice how prevalent the Universal logo is on all of their products? It's particularly annoying when watching the Season One DVDs. They finally started cutting it from in front of individual episodes on the 2.5 discs. The logo is down-right... universal. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:51, 8 January 2007 (CST)

(referring to the picture) So this is where some of the members of the Grey Council went after Delenn dissolved it... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:11, 31 December 2006 (CST)
:Yeah. Better gig. Far more lighting. Sexier minions to grovel at your feet, too. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:22, 1 January 2007 (CST)
::Mmm. Minions. The twenty-first cannot come soon enough. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:49, 8 January 2007 (CST)
:::13 days, 10 hours, 31 minutes :( --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 10:28, 8 January 2007 (CST)

About the current photo: who are the actors posing as the Final Five? --[[User:Meian|Meian]] 20:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

== My Predictions ==

Here's what I think we'll see tonight:
*Helo kills Athena so she can download and get Hera from the Cylons.
*Dualla goes Starbuck-hunting with Anders. They fall for each other, thus neatly wrapping up the Starbuck/Apollo/Anders/Dee love rectangle.
*Bill Adama nukes the bejeezus out of the algae planet. Chief, Cally, Barolay, and Bendis die. Everyone else makes it out on a heavy raider.
*The Final Five: Starbuck, Anders, Billy, Johnny Five, and Galvatron.
*Guest appearances by the SuicideGirls.

All of the above predictions are pulled directly from the darkest reaches of my rectum and should not be taken seriously. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 14:17, 21 January 2007 (CST)
: 1st idea: might actually possibly work even though it won't happen. 2nd: Good idea, actually. 3rd: Naw. 4th: Bahahahahaha. 5th: I wish. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 14:34, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:As they say on the forums, Galvatron ftw. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:57, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:Slander, I have an idea to make it even better. Option 3, take the "it" out of the 3rd sentence. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 16:26, 21 January 2007 (CST)
::Anders and Apollo making out? Hey, it could happen. They're both very pretty and Bamber is English. That's close enough to being a girl. And, hey, we'd get to see the inside of a heavy raider. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 17:46, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::HOLY FRAK, SLANDER! HOW DID YOU KNOW?! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:09, 21 January 2007 (CST)
::::Chamalla tastes good with Swiss Miss. (Also, the Final Five member that D'anna apologizes to? Totally Galvatron.) --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:34, 22 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Also also, how'd y'all like those SuicideGirls cameos? Eh? Eh? --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:36, 22 January 2007 (CST)
::::::The Final Five person D'anna talked to was Galvatron, the other 4 were SuicideGirls. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:42, 22 January 2007 (CST)
: I bow down to Slander. I bet the writers were cackling for weeks after they came up with that idea.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:46, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Concerning religion of the cylons and the colonies ==

Keeping Ron Moore's twists and turns from the original series I would like to suggest that
the Lords of Kobol and the "jealous" god, are for all intensive purposes the Cylons. They
are modeled after and therefore more directly linked to the deities say than Adama is "being Zeus" among the humans.
So much so that specific units have become avatars, perhaps posessed of a lord or at the very least
evolving an actual soul in likeness of a lord.

12 cylons = 12 olympians
Final Five - Temple of Five

The mystery of the final five hints to them being something other
that the existing models. Perhaps these five could not be replicated
like the others because of their conflict with the cylon god.

Clearly a more human "being" is developing in Deana in her search for enlightenment,
in Caprica in her search for Love and in Sharon in her self acceptance.
With Deanna the search for enlightenment became so overpweing
the entire line was boxed. With Sharon it's almost as if the humanity
Boomer clung to has moved to Agathon. Boomer is not the woman that
would not leave her human apartment after resurrecting,
but both have in their own fashion esentially accepted who they are.
Caprica appears in a constant state of conflict that many humans will relate to,
while her etherial counterpart is the self assured herald of her cylon maker.

For all the pagan references in the original series we still had Count Iblis
and the ship of lights taking on very familliar christan concepts of angels
and satan. Nothing is ever quite that black and white in the reimagined series.

While the reference has been fleeting, the notion of a god outside the
Lords of Kobol is clear, and he would be the cylons god. Dodona Selloi seems to refer to the cylon god as nothing more or less than a lord of kobol.
My thought is that somehow this jealous god has sort of ensnared the likeness perhaps even conciousness of the lords
in creating the cylon race, so closely that single copies become avatars of the lords.
The final five could be so possesed that they are not part of the cylon race,
refusing the mechanations of the cylon god. Others an avatar is what we see developing
in Sharon, Deanna and Caprica.

And even the cylon god, the Count Iblis whose voice was that of the imperious leader in the original series
has a model: Brother Cavel. Cavel is horribly wicked, he is always urging his fellow cylons
to the most horrific of actions. He appears out of nowhwere all the time. And yet, strangely,
he seems to honor the importance of free will in his dealings with his brother cylons, something you would expect of an
Abrahamic god. He's not Satan then who would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven,
he is just far more satanic or evil than any characterization offered by a member of
a known pantheon of gods.

Yet another twist, If the Abrahmic god were competing with beings like himself (greek gods), how satanic might he appear?
An abrahamic god accepts free will: I can't make you worship me.
But is flawed like miltons Satan, if you don't worship me , your damned.
Satans flaw in paradise lost was saying better to rull in hell than serve in
heaven. What he should have said was better to live free on earth not rule in hell.
So Cavel is a marvelous blend of an Abrahamic God & Satan floating through
space in a base ship with 7 of 12 would be Olympians. Caprica Aphrodite, Sharon Athena
and Deanna Hestia?. Starbuck/Artemis is the next to come forward?
Adama and Laura and Zeus and Hera? two reason for two of the final five to stay where they are.
They have human avatars leading the fleet. Three male cylons just go with the flow,
well the male gods were always kind of boring anyway. At least if your a fan of Wonder Woman.

The twist from original series to re-imagined series are always surprising and wonderful
in many ways. In the world of Sci Fi televison, the original Galactica made huge advances
by considering the existence of higher beings. Where would the Ancients of Stargate or the Vorlons
of Babylon be without Battlestar Galactica? Will we see actual communion with higher beings
in the re-imagined series? I don't expect to. It would gnaw at the the gritty realism of the show.

The idea of this entire exodus from the colonies seeking earth, unifying to a new Kobol, then breaking off back to earth and the colonies
over and over seems entirely plausible. Gods are at the very least real in a metaphoirical sense and 12 cylon
models living in peace with a vast race of humans on new a Kobol in the end sounds far more believeable
than actual gods and godesses.
{{unsigned|Mevenstar}}

: The was a good read.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:48, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Dualla's partner? ==

The summary mentions Dualla's partner being an unnamed civvie, but I thought it looked like Sergeant Fischer (Aleks Paunovic). I'll check the Sadgeezer transcript (as soon as it is posted). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:26, 23 January 2007 (CST)
:Not sure if it was Fisher, but I think he's one of the marines for sure --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:05, 24 January 2007 (CST)
::I'm pretty sure Dee says "Sarge?" after he gets shot. I could be wrong though. -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:23, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:::Nooo! That's a shame, because the guy that plays Fischer is friends with Tahmoh. I wouldn't want to be the guy breaking it to him that his character was getting killed off (and in such an inconsequential way, to boot). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:45, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Sooner Rather Than / Or Later? ==

*The Cylons are relieved as well, but after the Three in the command room leaves in satisfaction, the others realize that the Cylon, a race predicated on consensus and not defiance or distinctive personality clashes, have a serious problem. A [[Cavil]] voices that the Threes are out of control, and that a decision regarding their actions must be made, sooner or later.

I recalled that line as "sooner, rather than later," implying that the other models were already considering boxing the Threes. Am I loosing my mind, or did I hear that right? --[[User:Saiboogu|Saiboogu]] 01:35, 24 January 2007 (CST)

::That's what I heard too. Or "maybe sooner, rather than later". --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:41, 24 January 2007 (CST)

:::I edited the line but left the implication that they were going to box her for the talk page. If I remember, I think it has already been implied on earlier episode summaries that the Threes may be boxed - it goes without saying on this page. {{unsigned|Saiboogu}}

== Multiple Cavil's? ==

Ron Moore mentions in the podcast that the fx crew were going to insert a shot of a Cavil in front of all of the Deanna pods. Just as he boxes her in the closeup all the others box all the other Deanna models in the long shot. But I don't believe there were any Cavil's in the long shot. Did anyone notice? --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:44, 24 January 2007 (CST)
: It looked like there were other Cavils doing the same thing to all the other Threes in the wide shot that ended the episode. It is rather interesting that Cavil's normally not among the models who participates in a post-resurrection midwifing, yet he's the only one there when a boxing takes place, no? --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 02:04, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:To me it looked like a lot of Cavil-activity too. If (as many people here believe) Cavil is Number Two, then his actions in this episode make perfect sense. He's the one who confronts D'Anna in the temple and almost kills her, he's the one who proposes boxing the Threes in the first place, and he's the one who ends up actually doing it. If Cavil is either Two or Four, he'd be the representative of the remaining Cylons and it would make sense for him to go on a boxing spree. Also, if Cavil is Two, he wouldn't want his 'leadership' status (as far as he has any; he didn't protest against the majority decision to attack the Colonies) threatened by the revelation of Number One (who I believe to be among the Final Five). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 03:39, 24 January 2007 (CST)
::: I gotta get me a bigger tv.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:56, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Deanna Recognition ==

Which of the main characters has Deanna had significant interactions with? Other than Baltar.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:47, 24 January 2007 (CST)
: Fleet-D'Anna from Final Cut interacted with Roslin, Adama, Tigh, and Lee. As for Downloaded/Final Five-D'Anna, it's just been Baltar, Doc Cottle and Anders, who she was a righteous bitch to and nearly killed by the way. --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 02:07, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:: I thought Fleet-D'Anna was Final Five-D'anna --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:41, 24 January 2007 (CST)
::: I think it's pretty obvious that the D'anna who found Hera and searched for the Five is the D'anna we know from Final Cut. Caprica-Three has a rather nastier temperament, both in Downloaded and in Occuprice. It's possible the Three who defies the basestar command in Rapture is Caprica-Three as well. I believe only one Number Three is referred to as D'anna and that's Final Cut D'anna. Note that even the other Cylons refer to her by that name. Normally, Cylons only seem to bestow individual names on a Cylon who has accomplished something significant. (For example, while D'anna mentioned speaking to a Simon, this was so Baltar would know who she's talking about.) --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:58, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:::: Yeah, that was the clincher for me, when the other Cylons called her D'Anna. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:19, 24 January 2007 (CST)
::::: The D'Anna that's been focused on recently is the one who was in Downloaded, see her flashbacks in [[Hero]] and the response from Bradley Thompson ([[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques]]). She's probably called D'Anna because Baltar calls her that. The reporter D'Anna from Final Cut was in the fleet at the time of Downloaded, so they're not one and the same. Messiah-D'Anna may be the one shown at the end of Final Cut. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:34, 24 January 2007 (CST)
::::::I transcribed the conversation, I'm not sure about "it's a trick before I die", the line was barely audible.
:::::::D'anna: "The final five, is it really you?"
:::::::D'anna: "You."
:::::::D'anna: "Forgive me I ... I had no idea."
:::::::''transitions from D'anna holding mystery figure's hand in the vision to D'anna holding Balthar's hand in the temple''
:::::::Baltar: "No idea about what? What did you see? Who was it?"
:::::::D'anna: "So beautiful."
:::::::Blatar: "What was? Tell me am I one of you."
:::::::D'anna: "You were right."
:::::::Baltar: "About what? D'anna did you see my face? I have to know please. Please stay with me I have have to know. Tell me I have to know did you see my face? Am I a cylon?"
:::::::Baltar: "God ... it's a trick before I die."
:::::::Tyrol: "Welcome home mister president."
::::::It was pretty heavily implied that it was Baltar, although the "forgive me, I have no idea" line would also be consistant with [[Daniel Novacek|Daniel "Bulldog" Novacek]]. She could also be apologising for any as of yet unmentioned offscreen actions against any known or as of yet unintroduced character on Cylon occupied [[New Caprica]] or any of the Cylon-occupied Colonies. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:16, 24 January 2007 (CST)

::: Actually what Baltar said at the end was:

:::::::D'anna: "So beautiful."
:::::::Baltar: "What was? Tell me! Am I one of you?"
:::::::D'anna: "You were right."
:::::::Baltar: "About what? D'anna did you see my face? I have to know please. Please stay with me, stay wi... I have have to know! Tell me! I have to know! Did you see my face!?! Am I a Cylon!?! Frak!"
:::::::''Baltar steps over D'anna's body and onto the mandala:''
:::::::Baltar: "God please tell me the truth before I die."
:::::::''Someone sneaks up to Baltar and puts a gun to the back of his head''
:::::::Tyrol: "Welcome home Mister President."
:::::::
:::::::At least that was what he said in close captioning. I did hear something like "its a trick" at the same time. Easter egg? And his name is "Baltar" not "Balthar". [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 17:07, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::::::::"Tell me the truth" makes more sense. - [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 21:04, 25 January 2007 (CST)

::Fleet-Three from "Final Cut" can't possibly be Messiah-Three - during Three's first recreational suicide in "[[Hero]]", she flashes back to a scene from "Final Cut" set on Caprica. This means she's the same Three as the one watching the documentary in that episode, and not the one who was on ''Galactica'' at that time. She also flashes back to her death at the hands of Caprica-Six in "[[Downloaded]]", so we know that they are also the same character. Since it doesn't make sense for Messiah-Three to apologize for any actions taken by Fleet-Three, I think we can safely rule her out. That leaves the humans interacted with by Messiah-Three to be considered. There are only seven candidates:
::*Sam Anders - Tried to kill him on Caprica ([[Downloaded]])
::*Tucker "Duck" - Blew her up at the NCP graduation ceremony ([[Occupation]])
::*Dodona Selloi - Consulted her regarding Hera's fate ([[Exodus, Part I]])
::*Cottle - Discussed Hera's cremation ([[Exodus, Part I]])
::*Felix Gaeta - Was present when she, Caprica-Six and Baltar evacuated Colonial One, but did not interact with him ([[Exodus, Part II]])
::*Denny "Bulldog" Novacek ([[Hero]]) - Interrogated by an anonymous "sick" Three on a Basestar.
::*Gaius Baltar
::In evaluating these, we should establish whether Messiah-Three has done anything to them worth apologizing for, and consider whether story logistics allow them to be a Cylon. Three has no reason to apologize to Duck, Selloi, Cottle or Gaeta, narrowing the field to just Baltar, Bulldog, and Anders.
::From a storytelling standpoint, Baltar can't possibly be a Cylon. They've teased it so much that there's no dramatic payoff if they reveal it now - it would be a total anticlimax. It also ruins his character's dramatic function, since Baltar's role is to be the guilt-ridden traitor. His character can't function as a Cylon. If James Callis ever intends to leave the show, revealing him as one of the final five would be a good way to write him out, but in the near-term, it's just not a possibility.
::Bulldog would be a completely uninteresting choice (since we know nothing about him and have no emotional investment in his character). Additionally, the actor will probably be difficult to book in the future, and the character has mitigating factors (a long military career with verified non-Cylons Bill Adama and Saul Tigh).
::This leaves Anders as the only possibility. Messiah-Three certainly has grounds to apologize to him, and he has no real mitigating factors - no history prior to his time with the Caprica Buccaneers, and (notably) no children with his wife, Kara Thrace. It also explains his remarkable ability to withstand and quickly recover from walking pneumonia ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:00, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:::Love the analysis. Who you narrow it down to makes sense. Anders is just a goofy guy, though. I personally find the Bulldog theory more interesting because of his connection to Adama and Tigh. If we see the character pop up in upcoming credits that might be a sign that they're filling out his backstory. Until then, though, maybe Anders will take on more shades, or the writers will have a dramatic twist that'll make Baltar a more convincing choice.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:53, 25 January 2007 (CST)
I think you're making a leap on the apology thing. The apology may not be for something that Three did to the Final Five model in question, but that she was sorry she didn't know that that person was a cylon and/or a member of the final five. Make sense? --[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 10:13, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:It's possible, but it would be bad writing if that were the case. I'm making the (perhaps misguided) assumption that the writers respect our intelligence, and wouldn't give us a clue we can't use. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:23, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::I respectfully disagree that it's bad writing. Haven't you ever been in a situation that required you to say "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that was you." I may be wrong and I don't think the speculation as to what she meant is that plain. I think it could go either way.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 10:36, 25 January 2007 (CST)
Is is possible that the person she was apologizing to was the hybrid? [[User:Aspshortjock|Aspshortjock]] 16:29, 25 January 2007 (CST)[[User:aspshortjock|aspshortjock]]
:I don't think so. If, as I believe RDM describes her in the Torn podcast, the Hybrid is an intermediate step between mechanical and humanoid models then she is not a humanoid model. Also, she doesn't have legs and couldn't be standing on the dais. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:41, 25 January 2007 (CST)
There are many she could apologize too. First of all, Cylons who wish to seem to sync up memories (Sharon A remembers the life of Boomer) and remember those actions as their own past. But most of all, the Three line participated in the war and nuking of the colonies. There is no human she doesn't owe a huge apology to, unfortunately. She also oversaw New Caprica and thus owes a double one to all those who were subject to the occupation. She owes special apologies to Baltar and a few others, but alas this doesn't tell us much. Only that she had no idea the final 5 were playing whatever role in humanity that the person she sees has played.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 23:35, 24 February 2007 (CST)
:Naturally, you are correct, but that would be the weaker way for the writers to work their way out of the situation. I choose to assume that they dropped that hint with a specific intent. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:25, 25 February 2007 (CST).
::My impression of what was conveyed in that scene was that it was meant to be revealing, but wasn't necessarily an apology for harm done. To apologize for harming one of the Final Five would be doubly unnecessary: he or she is a Cylon and thus generally impervious to any lasting harm, and more importantly is presumably carrying out some kind of plan, in which Three would have been merely playing her part.
::Rather, I think the identity of that particular Cylon revealed to Three something fundamental about the nature of the Final Five and the role they are playing, something very different than she ever imagined. The apology was for having the audacity to uncover their identities and approach them, thus potentially interfering with their plan, though, as she tells Cavil, she would still do it all again.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 01:14, 26 February 2007 (CST)

===Followup===
Mmph! Mmmmph! --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:42, 10 March 2007 (CST)
:...? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 16:43, 10 March 2007 (CST)
::Oh, man. Nailed it! --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:03, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

== Boxing the Threes ==

There is discussion around here about just how they boxed the entire Three line, so here's my idea:
*Send all your Cavils to the Resurrection Ship's Three Deck.
*Reprogram the Centurions to forget the Threes are Cylons.
*Have the Centurions fire upon all Threes they can find in the fleet. (Resurrection Ship's gonna work overtime on that)
*Have your Cavils box the downloaded Threes.
Any alternative ideas, anyone? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 03:44, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Here's my one main idea, based on looking at what happened once D'Anna saw the final five.

*One of the consequences of her seeing the final five was that the experience would overload her Cylon brain. Take note that her eyes glazed over and her nose started to bleed, inferring that there was some sort of hemmorage occuring, probably from the brain area. Since it has been shown many times throughout the series that the Cylon models amongst themselves can communicate with each other on a near telepathic level, whether it is for voting on leadership decisions or sharing memories. I believe it is entirely possible that once D'anna saw the final five, the shared memory of that forbidden knowledge was transmitted to all the other Threes, thus resulting in their own deaths as well.

When Cavil talked with D'Anna and told her to look at all the "damage" she had caused, he seems to be talking about all the other resurrection chambers around her. This implied to me that the damage that occurred was that every Three died at the same time & thus time and energy had to be spent to resurrect them all. I take this to be the final breaking point for the rest of the Cylon leadership as resurrecting an entire line of cylons would have taxed the resources they currently had, plus now that all the Threes have this shared knowledge of the final five, it is too dangerous to keep them around, thus the final boxing.

That's my 2 cents. I understand how the other explanations can work and may very well be one of those. However, considering how often RDM and crew bring in some religious and spiritual twists every so often into their stories, what happened to D'Anna could be akin to how some religious teachings bring up the idea that once a normal human being looks upon the face of a god, their penalty is immediate death. Even in the RDM podcast, he referred to the cause of the boxing to the occurence that they finally took a bite of the forbidden knowledge, a reference to the Fall of Man account in the Judeo-Christian teachings.

Either case, I don't think the Cylons did much to "box" all the Threes. The Threes died because of D'anna's encounter with the final five and thus made it much easier to box all of them as they're resurrected. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 10:29, 24 January 2007 (CST)

It's possible that The Threes simply accepted their faith? After all they were able to get a ship on the planet they had no further reason to disagree with the other cylons.

Also we see some people walking in the "boxing chamber" when Brother Cavil leaves. Who are they?--[[User:R4p70r|R4p70r]] 14:14, 24 January 2007 (CST)

:The premise on the Three's multiple resurrections is based on a false assumption: The Cylons have a collective knowledgebase where information can be voluntarily shared to anyone of any model. However, unless [[Sharon Agathon]] was lying (which is unlikely, otherwise the Cylons know all of the Colonial tactical data they care to know through her now), this is not compulsory, so anything that D'Anna-Three learned may not necessarily have been sent to all other Threes. This goes against the point that she was dying, which requires the downloading circuitry, and the fact that the Cylons are NOT the "Borg" of Star Trek; they are not a "hive mind" that are continually connected (although models can relate data within each other, such as in the basestar command consensus). I'm all for the Centurion-shoot-up theory myself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:33, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::My theory doesn't go against what has been established amongst the series. As we have seen multiple times, Adama's speech during the mini-series was obviously transfer amongst the different Cylon models, such Leoben and even Athena. Though it is also a voluntary information sharing system as that would allow Athena to not betray the Colonial fleet with all her tactical data in her memories. However, that doesn't mean that D'anna-Three did not voluntary open her knowledge to the other Three models. In the end it's never explained how the Threes found themselves in those chambers. They're all boxed and unless something drastic happens, that is the probably the last we'll ever see of them.--[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 09:33, 26 February 2007 (CST)
::The other figures are Cavil copies boxing the other Threes, it's mentioned in the podcast. [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 21:12, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Removed analysis ==

* Battlestar Wiki contributors confirmed the similarity between the symbolic Eye-of-Jupiter image in the Temple of Five and the painting seen in Kara Thrace's old apartment ([[Valley of Darkness]]) prior to this episode (see [[Talk:The Eye of Jupiter#WTF_moment|this talk page]]).
** According to the [[Podcast:Rapture|RDM podcast]], the image in Kara's apartment was a mandala that the actress had decided to paint before the actual shooting occurred.

These lines were removed by [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] ([[User_talk:Peter Farago|Talk]]), saying: "''Remove self aggrandizement. Nobody cares who conjectured what.''".

I personally think both would be better off as separate bullet points in ''[[Rapture#Notes|Notes]]'' rather than ''[[Rapture#Analysis|Analysis]]'', but I do care. The second point is factual information that simply belongs here (I readded it). The first, well... I think deciding whether it's allowed to take pride in our own analysis is up to the admins (could you respond here, please?). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:39, 25 January 2007 (CST)

:We had this same debate regarding the name of the [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot]], which Merv arrived at before RDM's podcast revealed that the battle actually was inspired by the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot. The Merovingian wanted credit for it, but I argued at that time that the assignation of credit was irrelevant - I understand that you want to take pride in our community, but doing so is inappropriate inasmuch as it violates our NPOV policy (we certainly don't assign credit like that to non-wiki members), and isn't going to be a topic of interest to a viewer perusing the episode guide even a week from now. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:06, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:ditto. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:17, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::I'm to blame for the entry; it's not at all crucial, and if it violates NPOV, it should be removed. The Talk page of the article has the off-air kudos to the contributors, in any case. Finding this type of stuff is part of the fun of using the wiki, so at least the talk page gives the "fun" and the credit to the contributors, and the article can stay neutral. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:37, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:I agree that the self-reference to BSWiki is irrelevant, but the information from the podcast could indeed be added under Notes --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:37, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::[[Rapture#Notes|It's already there]] --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:43, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== "Mandala" ==

I've got a bit of an issue with the continued use of the term "mandala when referring to the carving in the temple and to Starbuck's painting. Definitionally, a "mandala" is "a geometric figure representing the universe in Hindu and Buddhist symbolism." While the design bears some resemblence to a galaxy/universe, there is no proof that that is what it is. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:06, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:They did call it that in the episode, didn't they?
::'''Adama:''' I think the Chief is right. I think the supernova does look like the mandala inside the temple.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:17, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:::That's correct, they do call it a mandala. Maybe you (BklynBruzer) can add a [[Rapture#Notes|note]] on how the ep's usage of the word "mandala" is incorrect. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:30, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::::Please read in detail the definition of [[w:mandala|mandala on Wikipedia]]. It is possible that the Thirteenth Tribe created the symbol for meditative use (it ''is'' in a Temple, after all). Mandalas don't have to be used or designed in a specific way except in a circular format, and it appears that the symbol adheres to the modern practice. Mandalas don't have to look like anything except for what it depicts or inspires, and it may relate to an ''element'' or ''concept'' of the universe, not a specific celestial object (although this one does). The fact that the symbol is all over the place gives it significance, but I feel we should stick to its modern application. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:24, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::Ah, if the episode itself called it a mandala, then consider my complaint dropped. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 10:34, 25 January 2007 (CST)

:RDM's podcast also refers to it as a mandala. Maybe when the actress had originally created it, they thought of it as a mandala and not a supernova symbol. Either case, I say that the word be used in the main article because at the very least, Adama uses that word in the show. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 13:56, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== pre-programmed viewing mechanism? ==

I have a problem with this statement in the analysis section.
:"Because D'Anna recognized one of the figures in white which must have been programmed into the viewing mechanism 4000 years previously, it can be concluded that there is some substantial connection between whomever the Temple of Five was dedicated to and the Cylons."
It's not necessarily a pre-programmed viewing mechanism. We don't even know whether the device was malfunctioning or working as designed. All we know is that when Three stepped onto the mandala, had a vision of the Final Five and then died of what appears to be a brain hemmorhage. I'll edit the comment in question. - [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 23:02, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::I agree. It does assume that the modality of transmission-if that is the proper term for it-is a mechanism of some sort. In the make believe world of ''Battlestar Galactica'' such phenomena as visions and precognition could exist however we may feel about them in the real world. Just like in say the TV show ''Smallville'' (which is about a young Clark Kent in his pre Superman days) magic and ghost are real. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:45, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::Maybe it's not the temple that's preprogrammed, but the Cylons themselves? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 07:51, 26 January 2007 (CST)
:::There may never be enough information, with the Threes all gone, to discern how the mechanism worked. We've seen stuff like this work before in the form of the [[Tomb of Athena]], another gift from the ancient tribes. There's not enough information to discern where the Threes kept getting ''their'' non-Temple visions. Three may have had a hemorrhage because the system was compatible with, but not designed for non-humans. We don't really know if the people who Three saw were actually the five missing Cylons themselves. Just because the character says something doesn't make it true; its their perception. Much of the comments from the virtual Number Six are testaments to how the show's writers love to twist us, so I recommend careful treading on further speculation, lest ye [[BW:FANW|wank your fans.]] --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:02, 26 January 2007 (CST)
::::I agree; we are lacking too much information. We don't even know for sure when the Temple of Five or the Tomb of Athena were created/programmed. Everyone is assuming they were set up 4000 years ago, but it's possible the "visions" were programmed by the Final 5 fairly recently. The structures may have been created a long time ago, but the Final 5 (or someone else) may have added the high-tech recently. Maybe they already went in search of Earth and were leaving clues for others to follow - they could have also deliberately designed them to fit with the prophecies. I'm reaching, but it helps make the point that we have no idea when the visions in the Temple and Tomb were created. --[[User:Todd|Todd]] 17:45, 14 February 2007 (CST)

== holy .... ==

my mistake, sorry[[User:Redlinetheturk|Redlinetheturk]] 08:26, 28 January 2007 (CST)
:No problem. The wiki has retained the history so you only need to copy and paste instead of re-translating again :) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:11, 28 January 2007 (CST)

== Title ==

rap·ture /ˈræptʃər/ [rap-cher] noun, verb -tured, -tur·ing. 
–noun 
1. ecstatic joy or delight; joyful ecstasy. 
2. Often, raptures. an utterance or expression of ecstatic delight. 
3. the carrying of a person to another place or sphere of existence. 
4. the Rapture, Theology. the experience, anticipated by some fundamentalist Christians, of meeting Christ midway in the air upon his return to earth. 
5. Archaic. the act of carrying off. 
–verb (used with object) 
6. to enrapture. 

The title doesn't relate to the episode's content very much, except that maybe #3 above may apply to [[Number Three|D'Anna]]'s experience in the temple. One of the most vague titles so far, anyway. Or can anyone come up with a better explanation than the above? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 15:39, 28 January 2007 (CST)
:I think it clearly refers to D'anna's religious experience in the temple. And while that's only a relatively small part in the entire episode, it does have far-reaching consequences for her and the Cylons --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:58, 28 January 2007 (CST)
::I think that definitions #1, #2, #3, and #5 all apply to this episode actually. #1 because there was definitely an ecstatic joy on D'anna's face after she saw the final five. #2 closely follows the theme of #1. #5 in relation to the humans tuck on the planet as they had to be immediately carried off before the planet exploded. #3 because D'anna was carried to the opera house once she stepped into the "well of souls." --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 14:38, 30 January 2007 (CST)

== "Who programmed us" ==

This article, [[Cylon Models]] and [[Humanoid Cylon]] all have Three's line at the end of ''Rapture'' as "The one who programmed us," but I'm fairly certain the line is "It's not a flaw to question our purpose, is it? ''To wonder who programmed us'', the way we think, and why?"--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 02:57, 3 February 2007 (CST)
:You're right, I just re-watched the scene. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 03:29, 3 February 2007 (CST)
::Something tells me that she means humans and Cylon in general, more than literally who programmed them and why. But yeah, that's the correct line. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:59, 3 February 2007 (CST)

== Cavil, the keeper of secrets? ==

Should information from RDM's podcast about Cavil be included? RDM said how delighted he was with the idea that the athetist Cavil model is the actual model that knows about the final 5, a guardian if you will. That explains why Cavil was able to deduce why D'Anna was concerned with the Temple and why he felt it was his responsibility to prevent D'Anna from doing so. It also explains why again it is Cavil, and not the other models, that is confronting the 3 models before they're boxed, he(or they) are the ones who truly know and guard the secret of who the final 5 are.

Either case, I just think it would be helpful to include that info in as rumors are flying all about who the final 5 are going to be. That's my two cents. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 22:21, 13 February 2007 (CST)

:The exact quote is "I love Cavil as the keeper of secrets and Cavil is the guy who won't let D'Anna go see the final five. I always thought that was very cool, because it was a nice twist on the character, who he really was, that the atheist Cylon actually knew something about the religion of the Cylons.". IIRC it's common knowledge among the Cylons and the fleet's leadership that there's twelve Cylon models. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 21:46, 14 February 2007 (CST)

::For exact quotes, you might want to search through the [[Podcast:Rapture|podcast transcript]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:04, 15 February 2007 (CST)

== To Baltar: "You were right" ==

One of the more curious lines in this episode is D'Anna's last words to Baltar. "You were right."

So about what? Other than the obvious suggestion that he's one of the final five.

What other things have people noted that Baltar said to the Cylons that they, or she, disagreed with? --[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:50, 23 February 2007 (CST)

== Baltar as the Cylon God ==

It has occurred to me that Baltar may be the Cylon "god", although he may not realize it. In the mini series Baltar is giving an interview where he denounces the ban on research and development into artificial intelligence. The original cylon centurions were created by man, but did man give them the ability to evolve on their own? Perhaps Baltar played a part in the evolution of the Cylon race, though his work may have been completed by someone else thus explaining how he could be fooled into letting number 6 into the defense mainframes.

:I don't think his age has ever been officially stated, but he looks far too young, and probably is. It's still theoretically possible that one of his parents played a major role in developing the Cylons, then moved to Aerelon under an assumed identity and married a farmer, or that Baltar's one of the Final Five, or that he's one of the previous cycle's equivalent of Cylons, or that one of his parents is a Cylon (or last cycle's equivalent), or that he's the son or mortal incarnation of the One Whose Name Cannot be Spoken, or that the Cylon god is the last cycle's version of Baltar, or that he's a perfectly normal human who happens to have an important destiny. There's definitely some strange connection between Baltar and the Cylons. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 23:41, 27 February 2007 (CST)

== Answer to five priests question? ==

Ok, Serenity, you've got me. You added a link that Crossroads part II has the answer to the question about whether the final five are the five priests. I mean yes, the revelation that somebody as old as Tigh is in the F5 does provide some strong evidence that it's true, but I would hardly say it's confirmed yet, so what clear answer do you see? Or are you suggesting it's answered in the negative? Either way I can't say there's an answer to that question in that episode. --[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 15:40, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
:I actually thought about saying "Possible answer" and that's probably the best. Anyways, the idea that the priests several thousand years ago are somehow the Final Five is pretty absurd in the first place. For me that the Final Five are contemporary persons is strong evidence that they are not the ancient priests. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:37, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
::Remember the central premise of the Colonial faith: "All this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." The temple ''was'' built 4,000 years before the Cylons were supposed to exist. How could this temple be related to the Cylons? Are the priests and the Cylons the same? These are the valid questions, and obviously there is a connection. Recycled technology, recycled souls, something reused. And don't leave out Kara Thrace and her symbol (she never entered the Temple, yet she [[The Destiny|has a connection]]). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:46, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
::I would venture that "Answer" or even "possible answer" means answer, not clue. I don't want to debate it here, but I think our disagreement makes it clear this question is not answered. And it is one of the central questions. Absurd? Surely you've noticed the Final Five make all their vision appearances in the Kobol-era opera house as well? --[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:50, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
:::I think "possible answer" is alright, depending on how one sees it. People have different interpretations, and for some it might be an answer and for some not. That's the meaning of "possible". For me, the heavy emphasis on that whole Final Five business is not a good thing in the show. But while they might somehow be related to the priests, maybe modeled in their image or something, I think it's out of the question that the priests literally ''are'' the Final Five, cycle of time or not. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:56, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
::::I agree, maybe the Final Five are this cycle's version of the five priests (both groups were outcasts because they worship different deities) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:18, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
::::It can't be a "possible answer" because as should now be clear, some people think Crossroads is *stronger evidence* that the 5 priests may be the very same final 5, and some people such as yourself think it refutes that idea. You can't declare an answer of any time when it's not clear what the possible answer even is. I don't want to debate it here, just to point out that the question is not answered, either way. A link to an "answer", even a possible one, requires that it be clear what answer is being referred to. To avoid debate here I created a [[http://ideas.4brad.com/five-priests-and-final-five blog thread on the five priests]] where we can debate in the comments if desired.

== A Change in Six ==

Forgive me if this has been stated elsewhere or if I'm misinterpreting things, but in the Miniseries, Six snaps a baby's neck seemingly without hesitation or remorse. In this episode, Boomer is about to do likewise with Hera, but Six steps in and stops it. [[User:TheUnknown285|TheUnknown285]] 02:43, 27 October 2011 (EDT)
:There have been some discussions on whether the baby killing in the miniseries was murder or mercy killing, given that a brutal nuclear bombardment is just a day or so away. Whether her facial expression afterwars shows indifference or remorse has also been a topic. As is to be expected, people have not agreed on a definitive conclusion.
:One must also consider that the baby in the miniseries was a complete stranger belonging to a species considered little more (or less) than pests by the cylons, while Hera was half cylon and Caprica Six's niece (since cylons see eachother as brothers and sisters). I am sure such duality have been shown by humans within a single day during ethnic conflicts. Killing a Jew and killing a German would be two different things in the eyes of a Nazi.
:Nevertheless, Caprica Six's change from mass produced, immature, seductive robot on a mission to exterminate the evil humans to independent woman advocating that killing humans is evil, is very much an importang plot thread in the latter episodes of season two and early episodes of season 3. Another change that has not been explained is the sudden disappearance of six's (girlish?) seductive behavior when she is around Baltar in the miniseries. She keeps switching to it even after revealing her cylon nature and it no longer serves any purpose, but it is never seen again after that. I don't think it is as prominent in the flashbacks to when she and Baltar first met either. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 01:54, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

Galactica (TRS)

2011-10-03T05:13:45Z

Caldumidoan: Not sure if roundel is the right word, but it wasn't the gun turrets that were destroyed at this point

:''This article discusses the [[Re-imagined Series]] battlestar. For other meanings of '''''Galactica''''', see [[Galactica (disambiguation)]].''
{{Ship Data
| image= Galactica Overview.jpg
| title= Galactica (BS 75)
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Approximately 3,500
| length= {{Meters2Feet|1438.64}}<ref>These dimensions (in meters) were derived from the CG model and posted by [[Lee Stringer]] on the StarshipBuilder.com forums, which are no longer available. They are the most precise so far. The width with pods extended and the height are quoted here verbatim; the length was calculated by adding the posted dimension for the front of the ship (766.04m) to the posted dimension for the back (672.6m). The full set as provided by Lee Stringer is as follows: "Width (Pods out) 536.84m (Pods In) 352.34m
Engines Max 359.38m Head Max 334.58m
Length: Front (Main body) 730.65m (Antenee) 766.04m Back 672.6m
(using the center of the two arms as the middle)
Height (Armor/Mainbody) 181.825m (Details) 183.315m".</ref>
| width= {{Meters2Feet|536.84}}<ref name="podtopod">This is from flight pod to flight pod while they are extended.</ref>
| height= {{Meters2Feet|183.315}}
| otherdi= The dimensions above are from [[Lee Stringer]], who built the ''Galactica'' CG model. VFX Sequence Designer [[Adam "Mojo" Lebowitz]] gave the length as {{Feet2Meters|4740}}.<ref>[http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2009/04/05/how-big-was-the-colony/#comment-2193 Blog comment] by [[Adam "Mojo" Lebowitz]].</ref> The reason for this twenty-foot discrepancy is unknown.
| co= Admiral [[William Adama]]
| xo= Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= As many as 514 dual point-defense [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], 24 primary dual Kinetic Energy Weapons, at least 12 [[missile tubes]] capable of firing conventional and nuclear missiles, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Abandoned, flown into the Sun with the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]
| img= Y
}}
'''''Galactica'' (BS 75)''' is a [[Galactica type battlestar|veteran battlestar]] and the last of her kind still in service with the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|destruction of the Twelve Colonies]]. Built during the early days of the [[Cylon War]], she remains the only military vessel without integrated [[Computers|computer networks]]. Without networked computers, ''Galactica'' never upgrades to the new [[Command Navigation Program|integrated defense system software]] developed by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Number Six|team]]. Because of this and other factors, she becomes one of only two known battlestars (the other being ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'') to survive the renewed Cylon attack on the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. At the time of this attack, she was part of the 75th [[Battlestar Group]] (BSG-75).

== History ==
=== The First Cylon War ===
[[Image:Mini gal top.jpg|right|200px|thumb|A dorsal view of ''Galactica''. The starboard [[flight pod]] is covered by a window to form the [[Galactica Museum|museum area]].]]
''Galactica'' was one of the first twelve battlestars to be constructed by the Colonials, each representing one of the twelve colonies; ''Galactica'' represented [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]]. As such, she is some 50 years old. While solidly built, various factors during ''Galactica's'' construction led to the shipyard "cutting corners" when she was originally built, with various components not completed to spec ([[TRS]]: "[[No Exit]]"). Following the outbreak of Cylon hostilities several more battlestars were built. ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> first commander was named [[Nash]].

The original battlestars were all designed with non-integrated computer systems to avoid the Cylons' demonstrated ability to override or subvert networked command and control systems early in the war ([[TRS]]: "[[Miniseries, Night 1]]"). Rather than technological sophistication, the battlestar depended on its sheer bulk and defensive / offensive capabilities to ward off any threats to itself or the Colonies.

''Galactica'' took part in [[Operation Raptor Talon]] which then Lieutenant [[William Adama]] served on. After crash-landing on the ice planet the operation took place over and witnessing the experiments on humans, Adama contacted ''Galactica'' to take out the [[Guardian basestar]] which had just launched, but was informed by ''Galactica'', which had dispatched a [[SAR]] [[Raptor]] for him, of the Armistice. Adama wouldn't learn the truth of what he'd seen until the [[Battle of the Guardian basestar]] over forty years later. After the [[Final Five|rather mysterious]] Cylon [[Armistice Station|armistice]], and their withdrawal from Colonial space, ''Galactica'' and her sister ships served the Twelve Colonies in a variety of roles. While her surviving sister ships were scrapped or upgraded to match the systems capabilities of newer Colonial vessels, ''Galactica'' continued in service without her systems being fully networked or integrated, making her unique among Colonial military vessels. '' Galactica'' was relegated to intra-system duties for at least 20 years prior to her decommissioning.<ref>This is inferred by [[Saul Tigh]] in his reaction to Commander Adama's decision for a [[FTL]] jump ([[TRS]]: "[[Miniseries, Night 1]]").</ref>

=== Decommissioning ===
[[Image:Ragnarbattle3.jpg|200px|right|thumb|''Galactica'' provides cover for civilian ships during the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]].]]
With her active career drawing to a close, a decision was taken to retire ''Galactica'' and decommission her from service. Colonial Fleet chose not to scrap her, but to turn her into a combination of living museum to the original Cylon War and an educational center, with her conversion being overseen by her final commander, [[William Adama]].

At the time of her formal decommissioning ceremony, ''Galactica'' is stripped of all but one of her operational [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII squadrons, her munitions are destroyed, and her starboard landing pod is converted into a pressurized [[Galactica Museum|museum]] which houses (among other things) a full squadron of [[Viper Mark II|Mk. II Vipers]] as well as a Viper model that appears [[Viper (TOS)|older than the Mark II]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Miniseries, Night 1]]").

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=== Return of the Cylons ===
[[Image:Mini side fleet.jpg|thumb|right|200px|''Galactica'' and the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].]]
With the renewed and unexpected Cylon hostilities, ''Galactica'' is quickly brought back to combat condition and sorties several Mark IIs retrieved from her museum, engaging in her first battle with the Cylons in over 40 years (all but one last Mark VII squadron were sent to Caprica for reassignment). She survives a direct hit by a tactical nuclear missile, and later [[FTL|jumps]] successfully to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] to replenish her empty ammunition stores at this strategic depot.

''Galactica'' emerges from the anchorage and engages one [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] with her gun batteries, providing cover for [[The Fleet (RDM)|a fleet of 75 civilian ships]] harboring survivors of the Twelve Colonies. Once the entire civilian fleet successfully jumps away, and as a second basestar approaches to join the battle, ''Galactica'' recovers her remaining Vipers and jumps to the rendezvous point beyond the [[Red Line]], never to return to Colonial space ([[TRS]]: "[[Miniseries]]").

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=== Leading a Ragtag Fleet ===
[[Image:Ep212battle.jpg|200px|right|thumb|''Galactica'' and [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] work together during the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]].]]
Since the exodus of the Colonials from their overrun homeworlds, ''Galactica'' becomes both protector and provider for the Fleet. She provides covering fire for the Fleet during Cylon attacks no fewer than 240 times ([[TRS]]: "[[33]]": "[[Act of Contrition]]"). The battlestar provides much of the Fleet with recycled water ([[TRS]]: "[[Water]]") and she is the primary source of medical care, where groups of civilians are periodically brought aboard for check-ups and treatment ([[TRS]]: "[[Litmus]]"). ''Galactica'' also undertakes internal policing duties within the Fleet ([[TRS]]: "[[Water]]"; "[[Bastille Day]]").

''Galactica'' successfully goes on the offensive against the Cylons, capturing a [[tylium]] fuel mining and processing plant in the process ([[TRS]]: "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]").

The [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] ''Pegasus'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]], joins ''Galactica'' approximately 6 months into their exile (See the series [[Timeline (RDM)|timeline]] for special information about this milestone). The two battlestars destroy two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] as well as a critical Cylon support ship known as the [[Resurrection Ship]]. After Admiral Cain's death, President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] promotes William Adama to Admiral, restoring him to overall Fleet command, but now with two battlestars at his disposal ([[TRS]]: "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

===New Caprica===
[[Image:Leaving New Caprica.jpg|thumb|right|200px|''Galactica'', ''Pegasus'', and the orbiting fleet prior to leaving [[New Caprica]].]]
Following the founding of [[New Caprica]], ''Galactica'' is assigned to the orbital defense force that protects the planet. During this time the majority of her crew are allowed to the surface in an effort to populate the planet and restore the human race, a majority of whom are seemingly convinced that the Cylons will never find New Caprica. The diminished crew inevitably results in standard maintenance becoming overlooked or ignored; basic military responses, such as the launching of alert fighters and routine training exercises become difficult to execute. One year following the founding of New Caprica, a fleet of Cylon ships jump into orbit of the planet. Severely limited in their abilities, Admiral Adama orders the defense fleet to jump away from New Caprica along with a handful of civilian ships still in orbit of the colony. They vow to eventually return to New Caprica and liberate it from the Cylon invaders ([[TRS]]: "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]").

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===[[Battle of New Caprica]]===
[[Image:BONC.jpg|thumb|right|200px|''Galactica'' takes a pounding during the [[Battle of New Caprica]].]]
Four months after their escape, ''Galactica'''s staff is still in the process of developing a rescue strategy with 16 training exercises having been completed and a 17th underway when an accident causes its early cessation ([[TRS]]: "[[Occupation]]"). This forces both a change in strategy and the reformulation of a rescue plan to deal with personnel who have not seen conflict in 16 months. While ''Galactica'' fights to liberate the Colonials on-planet, ''Pegasus'' is assigned to protect the remaining civilian Fleet and continue its search for [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Precipice]]"; "[[Exodus, Part I]]").

After coordinating with the [[New Caprica Resistance]], ''Galactica'' leaves ''Pegasus'' to guard the space-bound members of humanity while it uses a series of drones to misdirect the bulk of the Cylon Raiders and avoid immediate detection by baseships, thus allowing the civilians on the planet to escape to their ships and flee New Caprica.

''Galactica'' then jumps into low orbit, plummeting from an altitude of 100,000 feet. As the ship falls, Admiral Adama orders the launch of all remaining Vipers. ''Galactica'' then jumps back into orbit. In the subsequent battle with the orbiting basestars, ''Galactica'' is overtaxed, out-gunned, and faces destruction when ''Pegasus'' unexpectedly arrives. ''Pegasus''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> salvos draw the attention of the basestars away from ''Galactica'', buying ''Galactica'' time to bring her [[FTL|FTL drives]] back on-line and escape, but at the cost of ''Pegasus''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> destruction ([[TRS]]: "[[Exodus, Part II]]").

''Galactica'' bears the scars of the battle with significant scorching and dents to the hull. Nonetheless, the battlestar remains combat ready, holding off a superior Cylon force for a short duration in the [[Battle of NCD2539]] ([[TRS]]: "[[A Measure of Salvation]]"), and threatening to use its nuclear arsenal twice after New Caprica ([[TRS]]: "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]"; "[[Crossroads, Part II]]"). Given the loss of ''Pegasus'', ''Galactica'' now boasts a larger crew, Viper and Raptor complement, to the point where there are more pilots than there are ships to fly ([[TRS]]: "[[Torn]]"), although the training of new recruits is still ongoing ([[TRS]]: "[[Dirty Hands]]"; "[[Crossroads, Part II]]"; "[[He That Believeth in Me]]"). Further, there are various redundancies between the two crews that are appropriately dealt with (e.g. [[Lee Adama]] in a [[List of Deleted Scenes - Season 3 (RDM)|deleted scene]] from "[[Exodus, Part II]]").

Colonel Tigh comments that ''Galactica'' took so much damage in this battle that it would "take six weeks in dry dock just to bang out the dents" ([[TRS]]: "[[A Day in the Life]]"). This indicates that the damage is extensive enough to require a significant amount time (probably months) for full repair, and would be unlikely to survive a massive battle again.

=== Resuming the Search for Earth ===
''Galactica'' takes aboard a significant quantity of civilians following the exodus from New Caprica, as several civilian ships are lost during the escape from the failed colony. Cramped conditions increase as crew and civilians struggle to adapt to life back aboard a ship. The civilians reside on the refurbished starboard hangar deck as a refugee camp nicknamed "[[Camp Oil Slick]]" and later "Dogsville" ([[TRS]]: "[[Torn]]"; "[[The Woman King]]").

During a [[The Passage|food shortage crisis]] caused by contamination of the Fleet's food processing systems, ''Galactica'' (along with her Raptors acting as pilot ships) guides the civilian Fleet through an area of intense heat, light and radiation caused by a [[Passage (star cluster)|dense star cluster]] to reach edible resources on the [[algae planet]]. ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> heavy armor and radiation shielding protect her from the intense effects of the cluster, but the ship still suffers hull damage and decompressions.

The ship confronts a Cylon fleet and barely escapes a nova during [[Eye of Jupiter|the events over the algae planet]], jumping out at the last moment after recovering its ground teams and additional data on a way-point to Earth known to the Colonials as the [[Ionian nebula]] ("[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", "[[Rapture]]"). Repairs continue on the journey to the Ionian nebula. Damage to one particular airlock nearly causes the deaths of Galen and Cally Tyrol during what they expected to be a quick repair of a hull micro-fracture ([[A Day in the Life]]).
[[Image:BOTIM.jpg|thumb|left|200px|''Galactica'' is outnumbered during the [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula]].]]
When the Fleet reaches the nebula, four Cylon baseships are detected following an unexplained power outage. With the entire Fleet crippled and unable to escape, ''Galactica'' scrambles her Vipers and prepares for a lopsided fight, outnumbered and outgunned ([[Crossroads, Part II]]). During the [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula|following battle]], ''Galactica'' manages to hold off the main attack of the massive Cylon attack force. Despite the damage suffered in previous engagements, the old warship wields her main guns and point defense batteries effectively again in defense of the Fleet. During the battle ''Galactica'' takes many hits while covering the Fleet although without crippling damage. Despite having the advantage, and managing to destroy or damage several civilian ships, the Cylons retreat in the middle of the battle, after detecting one of the [[Final Five]] among the Colonials ([[He That Believeth in Me]]).

''Galactica'' is once forced to prepare for a battle against the rebel [[Basestar (RDM)|Cylon basestar]], but the ''[[Demetrius]]'' arrives to defuse the situation. In the wake of the basestar disappearing from the Fleet ([[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]]), [[Saul Tigh]] assumes command of ''Galactica'', jumping along with the Fleet ([[Sine Qua Non]]).

After [[Kara Thrace]] picks up a strange signal in [[Starbuck's Viper|her Viper]], the Colonials have a direct bearing towards Earth. Shortly later, after several years of searching, ''Galactica'' and her Fleet finally make the last jump to Earth ([[Revelations]]).

=== Post-Earth ===

After discovering [[Earth]] is a nuclear wasteland, discipline and morale on ''Galactica'' fall dramatically and the overall cleanliness of the ship suffers, e.g. outside [[CIC]], the words "Frak Earth" are spray-painted on the walls ([[Sometimes a Great Notion]]). When former deck chief [[Galen Tyrol]] disables the FTL drive, foiling the mutineers' escape with the ship, he discovers multiple tears in the chamber's walls, a sign that the aging battlestar's structural integrity is faltering ([[Blood on the Scales]]).
[[Image:Damaged Galactica.jpg|thumb|right|200px|A heavily damaged ''Galactica''.]]
A structural survey of the ship finds several torn supports and weakened areas in the hull, and a more in-depth examination finds endemic metal fatigue throughout the ship, with virtually every part of the hull riddled with small cracks and fissures.

''Galactica's'' advanced age, the corners cut during construction and the abuse it has been put through since the war started contributed to its condition. Tyrol suggests treating the damaged parts of the ship with an [[Cylon organic resin|organic Cylon resin]] from the [[Rebel Baseship]], which would fill the cracks and bear the stresses, which Adama at first refuses. However, Adama finally appreciates ''Galactica's'' dire condition when he finds a tear in a bulkhead in his quarters, and orders Tyrol to carry out his plan to repair the ship ([[No Exit]]). Tyrol later says that the resin will buy more time but the ship's integrity has been fundamentally weakened and it might not survive more FTL jumps- it is impossible to say how long she can hold. ''Galactica'' is dying of old age and accumulated battle damage.

Later ''Galactica'' is damaged even further when [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] jumps away very close to the hull. The resulting spatial distortion of her Raptor's FTL jump causes what appears to be buckling and explosive decompression in several sections of the alligator head of ''Galactica'' on her port side ([[Someone to Watch Over Me]]). This causes a chain reaction of explosions, structural failures and power outages throughout many parts of the ship including CIC.

At first refusing to accept the reality of the ship's fate, Admiral Adama gives the emotionally painful order to stop the repairs and begin the process of abandoning ship, moving to the Rebel Baseship as the Fleet's new flagship ([[Islanded In a Stream of Stars]]).

As the ship is slowly offloaded of parts and personnel, the Admiral relents one last time, stops the scrapping of the battlestar, and calls for volunteers for what will likely be a ''Galactica's'' final mission- to get the kidnapped Hera back from Cavil's Cylon colony ([[Daybreak, Part I]]).

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=== Endgame: [[Battle of The Colony|Battle of The Colony]] ===

[[Image:Battleofthecolony.jpg|thumb|right|200px|right|''Galactica'' takes massive hits seconds after jumping to [[The Colony]].]]
With a skeleton crew and a frail battlestar, Admiral Adama executes a daring mission to rescue Hera Agathon.

''Galactica'' jumps to the Colony at point-blank range. Besieged by the Colony's gun batteries at first, the ship is pummeled relentlessly (destroying the dorsal Colonial roundel) until the Hybrid Anders manages to take them and the Colony's Hybrids offline. As ''Galactica's'' Vipers engage incoming Raiders, her Raptors jump directly from their berth in the starboard [[flight pod]] (causing extensive damage to it) and maneuver to board the Colony.

Adama does the unbelievable: he rams ''Galactica's'' bow into the Colony, forming not only a second breech for his search teams to enter, but also forming an alternate escape route.

The rescue is successful thanks to Boomer's help (before Athena kills her), but ''Galactica'' is far from safe. The Raiders are still attacking the ship, destroying at least one of its remaining heavy gun batteries. The rescue teams are pursued back to ''Galactica'' by Cavil and his troops, determined to recapture Hera. Platoons of enemy Centurions swarm into the ship. Cavil personally leads an attack on CIC but is foiled.

Things appear to settle down after Cavil and Adama call a ceasefire. Cavil agrees to let ''Galactica'' leave with Hera in exchange for the information needed to bring back [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection technology]]. Part of the deal is that Cavil will leave humanity alone forever as well. The Raiders return to the Colony, while the Vipers return to ''Galactica''. Unfortunately, as the Final Five begin to download their knowledge into the Colony, they are exposed to each other's secrets; Galen Tyrol learns that Tory Foster murdered his wife [[Cally Tyrol]] ([[The Ties That Bind]]). Tyrol flies into a rage and kills Foster, severing the download. Chaos ensues and the ceasefire ends. The Raiders renew their attack on the ship. In CIC the Simon, Doral and Cavil there open fire but Apollo and Starbuck kill Doral and Simon while Cavil, realizing the hopelessness of the situation, kills himself.

Meanwhile [[Racetrack]]'s Raptor, drifting in space after all aboard were killed, is hit by a stray asteroid, causing the Raptor to launch its nuclear missiles into the Colony. The Colony's orbit immediately decays, pulling it into the black hole--threatening to take ''Galactica'' with it. But Kara Thrace jumps the ship, using coordinates she had extrapolated from [[The Music]] at the last second.

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=== Journey's End ===
[[File:Battlestar Over Africa.jpg|thumb|left|200px|right|A crippled ''Galactica'' seen in orbit over the Sahara Desert.]]
Unfortunately, the ship does not retract its flight pods as Kara Thrace executes the emergency jump; this, as well as the cumulative stresses of the previous battle and the past four years turn out to be the death knell for the old battlestar. ''Galactica'' experiences a series of fatal structural failures that send shockwaves and explosions rippling through the ship. The ship suffers explosive decompression in various sections, causing support beams to crash through deck ceilings. While the Cylon organic resin applied earlier prevents ''Galactica'' from snapping in two, the ship permanently loses its FTL ability as its structural integrity is severely compromised (Colonel Tigh mentions red-lines through the ship's lateral structural members, and groaning and buckling can be heard throughout the ship, indicating ''Galactica'''s frame is essentially destroyed, and cannot take any further stress). However, despite the loss of FTL, ''Galactica''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s other systems are still online, including life support and propulsion. The fear of being stranded in space are short-lived as ''Galactica'' arrives in the vicinity of a lush, blue-green habitable world, already populated by tribes of primitive humans who naturally evolved there.
[[File:The fleet's end.jpg|thumb|200px|right|''Galactica'' and her Fleet heading straight into the Sun.]]
The population of the Fleet, arriving later, agree to leave their technology behind and start new lives on the planet they decide to call "[[Earth (RDM)#A New Earth|Earth]]". The Rebel Cylons also decide to stay on the planet. With this decision, the Rebel Baseship is left to the Centurions, who leave to seek out their own destiny. Anders, still acting as ''Galactica'''s Hybrid, brings the battlestar's adventures to a close as he pilots ''Galactica'' and the last ships in the Fleet into the Sun, destroying ''Galactica'' and her Fleet. Admiral Adama is the last person to leave the ship, departing in his Viper Mk II from his service in the Cylon War.

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== Equipment ==
Apart from any technological upgrades that may have been made to her sister ships, ''Galactica'' was built to the general technical specifications of her [[Galactica type battlestar|class]].

===Starboard Flight Pod===

The starboard landing bay is eventually restored to usable condition, evidenced when Major Lee Adama lands his Raptor in the starboard pod. However, it is possible that this is due to a previously issued quarantine order and not because the flight pod is in regular use ([[A Measure of Salvation]]). The starboard hangar deck is designated an [[Dogsville|area of refuge]] for civilians displaced from lost ships (The Woman King).

During the last mission of Galactica, this pod held a number of Raptors ready for launch, these deployed out of the pod by FTL jump with the result that the shock waves fatally weakened the pods structure and the pod blew open to space. ([[Daybreak part 2]])

Strangely at least part of the museum setup survives all the way to Daybreak part 2, despite a hull breach and part of it being flattened by a heavy raider [[Scattered]]. It's unclear why the museum was kept intact and/or repaired, though it's possible it was put right during the year on New Caprica before the Cylons found the planet, since this is probably the only period when the crew would have any spare time to fix it. This serves as a minor plot hole that may never be resolved.

The museum would certainly have been destroyed in the jump shock wave from the Raptors leaving the pod during the [[Battle of the Colony]] or the decompression immediately after that point, any remains were sent into the sun with the rest of the ship.

===Nuclear Warheads===
[[Image:Galactica nukes.jpg|200px|thumb|''Galactica'''s nuclear arsenal.]]
''Galactica'' has five nuclear warheads as of "[[Bastille Day]]". Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] uses one warhead to destroy the Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] orbiting Kobol ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]), and Dr. [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] cannibalizes one to use in his [[Cylon detector]]. He later gives the warhead to [[Gina Inviere]], who detonates it aboard ''[[Cloud Nine]]''.

It is unknown how many nuclear warheads ''Pegasus'' has when it encounters ''Galactica'', but the two ships pool their nuclear ordnance stockpiles after that. As of "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", ''Galactica'' possesses at least seven warheads ([[missile tube]]s 4 through 10).

:''The yield of these weapons is unknown. It is likely they are of a "dial a yield" design which is common in real-life nuclear weapons. Because the physics of nuclear weapon design is a measurable science, and based on the size of the weapons seen on screen, the yield of ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> weapons may lie between 5 and 150 kilotons.''<ref>This is extrapolated from the size of the weapon, compared to a modern day ([[w:W80|W80]])-class nuclear warhead used by the United States.</ref> ''However, the energetic properties of [[tylium]] are so formidable that if a warhead design were to properly exploit even only 50% of the refined ore's enthalpy, a mere kilogram of it would allow for a yield of nearly 60 kilotons, and a one megaton yield warhead would require over 16.7 kg of refined tylium. The fact that the ore can also be used for explosives such as improvised mines ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]) opens a vast field of opportunities for heavy high yield weapons, not necessarily restricted to nukes in the traditional sense. If indeed a "dial a yield" capacity were part of the stock warhead's design, then it's possible that the addition of a weapon grade level of refined tylium would allow said yield to be considerably increased. Besides, the required high levels of pressure and heat could even be achieved with mere chemical implosion phases instead of atomic ones (ref. Fat Man bomb).''

===Vipers===
:''For information on the fighter squadrons stationed on ''Galactica'' see: [[Squadrons of Galactica]]''

[[image:1104Tube Mini.JPG|right|thumb|200px|A [[Viper Mark II]] in a launch tube.]]
[[image:Kg zoic-studio screen-caps-065.jpg|left|thumb|200px|A [[Viper Mark VII]] in the port [[Flight pod]].]]
Early in the flight of the Fleet, ''Galactica'' carried "40 Vipers and 21 pilots" ([[Act of Contrition]]) , of which at least six were Mark VIIs. Following the advent of ''Pegasus'', ''Galactica'' receives supplies that aid in the repair and refurbishment of her initial fighter complement ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]). Some time later, new Mark VII Vipers are constructed at ''Pegasus''s' Viper construction facilities utilizing the raw ore mined in an asteroid belt ([[Scar]]), and several of those are assigned to ''Galactica''.

With ''Pegasus'' destroyed at the [[Battle of New Caprica]], ''Galactica'' absorbs the former's fighter squadrons and personnel, and her Viper complement now counts approximately 80 planes. <ref>Dialogue from "[[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]]" and "[[Sine Qua Non]]" establishes that 40 Vipers have been transferred to a Cylon basestar, which comprises half the ship's air wing.</ref>

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===Raptors===
[[image:Raptor port.jpg|right|thumb|200px|A [[Raptor]].]]
The number of [[Raptor|Raptors]] available to ''Galactica'' is portrayed inconsistently. The assumption prior to joining up with ''Pegasus'' is that the battlestar has at least five Raptors, having left [[Ragnar Anchorage]] with at least eight. After the Battle of New Caprica, ''Galactica'' takes on ''Pegasus''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> Raptors. The subsequent number of available craft is unknown, but is at least 30, considering how many Raptors are deployed to rescue to the resistance fighters on Caprica ([[TRS]]: "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]") and still have enough to move people from ship to ship through out the Fleet.

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===Other Craft===
[[image:Blackbird FotP.JPG|right|thumb|200px|The [[Blackbird]], a special stealth ship, was construted on ''Galactica''.]]
[[image:AtmoShutt.jpg|right|thumb|200px|One of ''Galactica'''s [[Atmospheric shuttle| shuttle]] craft.]]
*''Galactica'' possesses two [[Heavy Raider]]s. One is hit by ''Galactica''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s defensive fire and crashes into the starboard flight pod with unknown, but probably extensive, damage ([[TRS]]: "[[Scattered]]"). The other returns in operational status from [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Home, Part I]]"). One of these Heavy Raiders is relieved of its FTL navigation system for use on the rescue mission to Caprica ([[TRS]]: "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]").
* A Raider from the first Cylon War may be on board ''Galactica'' after one follows Starbuck into one of ''Pegasus''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> landing bays and is shot down ([[TRS]]: "[[Razor]]"). A Cylon War era Raider, or at least a replica of one, was present in the [[Galactica Museum]], but has not been mentioned since.
*A second [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]] comes into ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> possession after [[Daniel Novacek]]'s "escape" from a basestar, replacing the one retrieved by [[Kara Thrace]] and lost during the quest for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Hero]]").
*An experimental stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]], is constructed using spare parts ([[TRS]]: "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]") and used in a critically successful reconnaissance mission to explore the nature of what comes to be known as the [[Resurrection Ship]]. The Blackbird is destroyed after completing its [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship|first combat mission]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").
*''Galactica'' possesses [[fuel tanker]]s used to supply fuel to Vipers and Raptors in flight without the need to dock with the ship. These may be dedicated craft or specially fitted shuttles or Raptors ([[TRS]]: "[[Occupation]]").

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== Crew ==
:''For information on Senior Staff, see : [[Senior Staff of Galactica]]''
:''For a list of pilots, see: [[List of Pilots]]''
:''For a list of deckhands, see: [[List of deckhands]]''
:''For a list of marines, see: [[Colonial Marine Corps]]''

Before the attack, ''Galactica'' has approximately 2,900 crewmen. By the time of the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', attrition has reduced this number to about 2,660. (c.f. [[Crew tally]])
It is unknown whether the Colonial Marines account for members or not.
*Between "[[Act of Contrition]]" and "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> offensive capability is also greatly hampered by the number of [[List of Pilots|qualified pilots]] available, and their lack of flight simulators with which to train more. Since ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> reunion with ''Pegasus'', this has ceased to be an issue ([[TRS]]: "[[Scar]]").
== Blue prints of Galactica ==

[http://media.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/File:BSG_Blue_prints.png]

==Related Imagery==
<gallery perrow="5">
Image:BSG Ortho Top & Bottom.jpg|''Galactica'' - [[Zoic]] rendering    
Image:BSG Ortho Front, Back & Starboard.jpg|''Galactica'' - Zoic rendering    
Image:Galactica's top side.jpg|''Galactica'''s top side.
Image:Kg cg ns galactica-049.jpg|''Galactica'''s front - Zoic
Image:Battlestar stern.jpg|''Galactica'''s stern.
Image:Galactica retraction.jpg|Flight pod retraction area.
Image:Galactica's bottom-023b.jpg|''Galactica'''s bottom.
Image:Bsg damaged.jpg|''Galactica'' with battle damage. (High Res)
Image:Cylon War-era Galactica, "Razor" Flashback 1.jpg|''Galactica'' in the [[Razor]] Flashbacks.
Image:Galactica - flight pods retracted.jpg|''Galactica'' with flight pods retracted.
Image:BSG landing alcove.jpg|''Galactica'' landing alcove.
Image:Kg cg ns galactica-037.jpg|A cluster of rail guns.
Image:Battered Battlestar.jpg|Bow view of ''Galactica''.
Image:GalPeg.png|''Galactica'' overlooking the [[Pegasus]].
Image:Pointdefence2 101 1080i.jpg|''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> point defense batteries in action    
Image:Galactica fights off missile salvos.jpg|''Galactica'' establishes a defense perimeter.
Image:Raptor scramble.jpg|''Galactica'' scrambles [[Viper]]s and [[Raptor]]s.
Image:Colony Breech.jpg|''Galactica'' rams herself into [[The Colony]].
Image:Img0059.jpg|''Galactica'''s main batteries.
Image:Galactia's end.jpg|''Galactica'' and the Fleet depart for the sun, with the African continent in the background.
Image:CIC Overview 1.jpg|''Galactica'''s CIC.
Image:Cicweaponscontrol1.jpg|Weapons control.
Image:Cictacticalstation1.jpg|Tactical station.
Image:Cic commstation.jpg|Communications.
Image:The Mess.jpg|The Officers' mess hall.
Image:Cicdmgcontrol.jpg|Damage control.
Image:Ftl2.jpg|FTL Drive.
Image:Bsg-1-10.jpg|The "War Room".
Image:Porthangardeck.jpg|The port hangar bay on ''Galactica''.
Image:DutyLocker.jpg|Crew quarters.
Image:GalacticaInterior Sickbay1.jpg|Sickbay
Image:Galactica Museum, "Daybreak, Part II".jpg| The ''Galactica'' museum in the starboard flight pod.
Image:Galactica corridor.jpg|The "A-shaped" corridors.
Image:BSG Blue prints.png|Schematics from the [[Battlestar Galactica Role Playing Game|roleplaying game]].
</gallery>

== See also ==
*[[Galactica crew facilities (RDM)|Galactica crew facilities]]
*[[:Category:Galactica Areas (RDM)|Galactica Areas]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

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Talk:The Ties That Bind/Archive 1

2011-07-13T19:38:54Z

Caldumidoan: /* Launch tube window */

Is this title a hint to [[Saul Tigh|everyone's favourite alcoholic colonel]]? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:23, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
:That would be "The Tighs That Bind". hehe. Like "Tigh me up, Tigh me down". That was a nice play on words. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:22, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

== SG1 thing? ==

Is the SG-1 thing really necessary? After all, I'm sure that here are tons of television shows that have similar names -- for instance, I'm sure that there are shows that have episodes named "Faith". To be honest, I find nothing significant in that note. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 13:22, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
:Agreed. Usually it's simple title that get reused often, but since this is a fixed expression it's not so surprising. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:25, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::Didn't know "The Ties That Bind" was like a common expression (one of the downsides of being a near-native, but still non-native, English speaker), I was under the impression it was simply a Biblical quote. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:49, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
:::The origin is of course that bible quote, but if you google it, you'll also find a Bruce Springsteen song and many news articles that use it. For example "The ties that bind China, Russia and Iran" or "Sony Cuts the Ties That Bind Walkman" or "Technologies to untie the ties that bind". And for TV, an episode of "The OC" shares that name too, so Stargate shouldn't be singled out. We already pay way too much attention to it with cast notes. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:55, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::::Right. I just didn't know TTTB was a common expression. Removing. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:59, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

== Image ==

May I suggest taking some image that is a) smaller b) oriented horizontally, not vertically? Current image breaks s.4 episode guide and is a bit too big. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:It's already scaled down and it might not be so obvious once that page is filled with content. The only other interesting image would be [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=1 this] (I can get a high-res version). Or we could crop the current one at her waist. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::My vote goes to [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=1 this], right. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::: It depends, because Cally... ahem. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: Then crop it at least if it must be Cally. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I say [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=3 this one] How many do have Cheif and Tory? We have lots with Roslin and crew. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 03:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, it's not like there is a shortage of things about the Final Five, either on screen or online, so I chose pictures that are about something else. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Mixing it up is good. I been thinking about making them all random <code>{{#random:image1.jpg,etc}}</code> [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 15:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== Orion ==
At about 28 minutes, when the other baseships jump in, the constellation of Orion is clearly visible in the background. Worth mentioning on the entry?--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 10:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely. Not only did you see Orion, but also Taurus and the Pleiades - and most importantly, as you would see them if you were within ~50 light years of Earth. --[[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 12:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:I think that this is also a tribute to Blade Runner: "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. '''Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.''' I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die." very cool! --[[User:Zenzero|Zenzero]], 30 April 2008
::I actually just saw Blade Runner a few days ago, and I think that that is a interesting, albeit coincidental, connection![[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 20:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

== Acts vs. Location Format ==
I feel that this guide would be much easier to read and follow if it was in a Location format instead of by Acts. IMHO, YMMV, ect. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah. that's the way I orginally had it setup before spenc uploaded his thing :P [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 16:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::Sorry, didn't look at the history. It just seems harder to read this way. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Hey. Wasn't blaming ya. :) I gues I'll pick apart his summary and switch everything around. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 16:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::We have most of the guides in act format since that's how the episode translates. While this may be easy to read, it also throws the order of the story out of whack. I figure we have to do this on a case-by-case given the number of scene shifts, so.... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Not so much scene shifts, but number of ''independent'' story lines. Sometimes, there are two different settings, but heavily intercut and dependent on each other. Like the stuff in "The Eye of Jupiter" and "Rapture". One the other hand, the Caprica, Kobol and Cylon story lines stand for themselves and can have an own section. That's how we always did it. Nothing new :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Nicky Cylon or Human ==

I wonder if this episode shows how the story hits on pure fiction rather than sci-fi with the case of Nicky being a cylon. Nicky is a boy, which would mean there has to be a Y chromosome. If Tyrol is truly a Cylon, then Cally could only have a female child. They stated earlier in the series that the skinjobs could not reproduce without human donors. Reading the sci-fi forums and original series (way back to deception to the Cylons/Baltar by Specter, and how the Beings of Light 'try' not to interfere) may provide a spoiler to what is to come next from this episode if it stays on the sci-fi side. If it goes fiction, maybe it be worth noting what made Nicky a boy and a cylon before someone yells "that's not sci-fi!" (The Science Note: women can reproduce women without men in genetic experiments of fertilization, but women do not carry/make the Y chromosome to reproduce a male.) (Podcast note: [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:Frak_Party_Q_and_A#hybridnick]) [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 21:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:They did not state anything about human donors. They stated that Cylons could not reproduce with each other, and could not reproduce with humans unless there was love. Cally and Tyrol love each other, imperfect as their marriage might be, so Nicky was conceived like Hera. No reason he shouldn't have a Cylon Y chromosome. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::RDM has stated the the final five are fundamentally different than the others, so what is know about the significant seven may not apply. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Plus, what is known about the signficant seven doesn't rule it out. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::So, we can say that Nicky is fundamentally different when compared to Hera. The plot just grows more from this episode about them and brings questions, but the difference can be noted on the Nicky or Hera page. I was going to add something to the article, but I felt it was better to wait another episode. Thanks -- [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 03:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::For now, we don't know of any fundamental differences between Nicky and Hera yet. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 03:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Inappropriate use of Point of Order? ==

According to Robert's Rules of Order, a Point of Order is raised if the rules of order have apparently been broken. In this case, rules don't seem to have been broken, and Lee is really just interrupting to bring up his own issues (which could be construed as out of order). The closest motion that I could find is a Request for Any Other Privilege, which he would then use to try to bring up a more pressing issue, but this is still an iffy case. [[User:Ctetc2007|Ctetc2007]] 10:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
*Standing-up at the table is a request to yield. The one who has the floor is the one who can decide to yield the floor. If Lee continued without the floor being yielded to him, then it would be out of order. Notice that Lee does ask for the floor to yield. The point of order is to get the answer to yield the floor and to quiet everybody else that does not have the floor. Roslin immediately tabled the issue that Lee brought up. Lee sits down, and the floor is returned. He could have requested an immediate call to vote to handle the issue, but typically it would have to be by some disastrous or emergency situation to call to vote on non-agenda items. Why didn't he make that case at that time? [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 14:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
*Since a legitimate Point of Order addresses a violation of the rules, it is addressed ''immediately'' to ensure proper procedures are followed. For this reason, it is frequently abused. I view the episode as reflecting the reality of that abuse. Lee has a point to make, but it isn't his turn, so he misuses the rule to interrupt. That isn't proper procedure, but it is a realistic depiction of what frequently happens in meetings. [[User:Dogger55|Dogger55]] 14:25, 12 July 2011 (EDT)

== Interesting Comments about Orion Sighting ==
The [http://community.livejournal.com/battlestar_blog/992976.html post] might be worth reading. Didn't know about the [[w:Ophiuchus |thirteenth sign]] until now. Any astrophysicists on board to judge this info? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

:This is a great little read (the link above). Even the bit about the Cylons of Greece (an aditional link once there). I was wondering, has anyone seen/made a super-speculative galactic map of where the fleet might be? especially now that with being able to pin point the rough neighbourhood the fleet is now in.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 12:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:One thing about this - if the arguement in that article was accurate (in terms of which direction the Fleet s approaching from), the Sun would be a bright naked eye star in Orion (roughly about mag 3), and would be stick out like a sore thumb. However - in terms of proximity, ~25 L.Y. away would seem about right. -- [[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 15:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== Monitoring Launch Tubes ==

The reason nobody notices the launch tubes being used is probably due to the Galactica's lack of automation. There's no central computer to track these things, and the over-worked state of Galactica's repair crew probably means that the logs that would track these things (assuming there's a counter at all) aren't being kept properly.

Of course, this doesn't explain why there wouldn't be guards.

— [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 01:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:Well, at least they already established that nobody was paying attention to the launch tubes in last season's "[[Collaborators]]"... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::Poor Jammer. :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 05:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

: This might be indeed a flaw by design, but one that they should have fixed after the first Cylon war. The Cylons boarded ships via airlocks and launch tubes and used them as weapon to vent the crew out of the ship. In such a situation the security team etc. should know where to look for the enemy. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 10:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:Well, would YOU want to guard the launch tubes? 99% of the time you'd just be standing there in an empty control room (at least at night), not to mention the fact that since there are quite a few launch tubes, you'd be tying up a significant number of personnel doing so. It seems like it'd be easier in terms of manpower to have guards somewhere in the hangar deck (potentially in intersection of the hangar deck(s) and the interior of the ship). By guarding the choke points, you'd be covered against somebody coming from any of the launch tubes, and from the landing bay openings as well. Though obviously the biggest reason the launch tubes are untended are for dramatic purposes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::Nobody said there had to be ''humans'' watching the launch tubes, you'd be 'watching' them electronically, just like building security monitors elevator movements. If they did that and logged all activity, they'd find out Cally's launch tube was spaced from the control room and know she didn't commit suicide. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, that Cally did not commit suicide is something that a good criminal investigator would find out anyway - Cally has to trigger the launch tube from inside by use this little key. This key should still be in the launch tube. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 14:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::*Actually, Cally used the key to switch the airlock door control from Locked (red) to Active (green). The green control light remained on after Tory removed the key. If the switch remained "hot", and Tory had the sense to take the key with her, it would be reasonable to assume that Cally pocketed the key before opening the door. [[User:Dogger55|Dogger55]] 12:44, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
:::True, but you know what happens when you put "machines" in charge of things... Closed circuit monitoring would of course be sensible. And if they wanted to get into all that, they could alter the logs and substitute in bogus footage, etc. When your conspiracy includes the Chief and the XO, there's not a lot of limits to what you could cover up. I guess they didn't want to get into that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think the Chief and the XO were in on this. And as to the key, wouldn't it be spaced too? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, I meant more of the executions in Collaborators. As for the key, it'd probably be "locked" into place when turned to the activated position. That, or you'd be losing keys whenever you did that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::Whenever you did what? Flushing a launch tube with yourself inside? How often does that happen? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::There are probably moving parts in the non-pressurized areas of the launch tube that need occasional maintenance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I myself have decided to suspend disbelief on this particular issue. I find it fairly unbelievable that there isn't an automated system that would at least inform CIC that a "launch" had taken place. Also, this is a military ship on a war footing; I'm sure they have plenty of bored marines who could be patrolling the ship, especially sensitive areas like launch tubes and airlocks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 20:07, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well it kinda depends on how detailed the data is that arrives at CIC: they may know ''that'' the launch tube was flushed, but they may not be able to tell whether it was operated from the inside or the outside (which would be of little use outside murder investigations). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Taurus ==
Some observant individual has noticed that Taurus is visible in this Orion [http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=taurusqv3.jpg screen cap] (Orion is still visible in the lower left), putting the Cylon fleet pretty close to Earth. Is this observation correct? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
:Oh, that's just bull ;) -- [[User:Whytwolf|Whyte Wolf]] 20:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

== Wired ==

''Wired'' credits the Battlestar Wiki for the photo they use for this blog, [http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/04/galacticas-thir.html Galactica's 'Ties That Bind' Is All Fraked Up].--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 01:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

== Question about Nebula effects on the Callster ==

So this question was added to the questions section: ''Why did reaching the Ionian Nebula have such a negative effect on Cally (lack of sleep, depression)?''

The thing about this question is that it had nothing to do (directly) with the Ionian Nebula affecting Cally negatively... Galen Tyrol's the one that's been causing some of the problems since their marriage, as we've seen in "[[A Day in the Life]]", although the root problem is that they're both pretty incompatible, which came to a head pretty much after the revelation in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]".

I'm bringing this up here because I removed the question earlier, but it was re-added, and instead of sparking an edit where the entire questions section was blanked (as was the case after I removed the question the first time), I figure I'd discuss it here first... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:Agreed. There is a time correlation obviously, but no causality. Unfortunately, these days some people are too quick to search for an outside explanation within the story and events, instead of looking at what the characters themselves go through. That just creates pointless implications. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Launch tube window ==

Has the reference to this been removed for a reason? I'm sure the article used to mention that there can't be a window in that location. (Did its illogical appearance really annoy anyone else as well?) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 10:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:Still there. Last item in the Notes section. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::Oops, my bad :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 12:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::*You know, it might just be an hallucination... Given that Cally was basically in an unstable state of mind, she might have just been imagining that there was a window there. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
::*Actually, there is space between each tube, which is wide enough for a control room (at least). As Cally first approaches the tube, you see a shorter door on the right labeled "Launch Control". This is the area from which Tory ultimately vents Cally into space. If Launch Control does not run the full length of the tube, there would be an empty gap where a window could be placed. Plus, there should be more space between each tube, simply to ensure minimum separation between Vipers during simultaneous launch. If all Vipers launch at once, you don't want those suckers flying too close to each other. An examination of the blueprint ([[Galactica_(RDM)#Blue_prints_of_Galactica|click on link here]]) shows space between each tube. [[User:Dogger55|Dogger55]] 12:26, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
::**There is room for a window, but you would not be able to see space (stars) through it without using mirrors or closed-circuit television. Such an arrangement would make sense for remote launches, as the pilot needs to see that there is nothing outside the far (outer) end of the launch tube. The window does however not look like something like this. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 15:38, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

== Another constellation? ==

I think I've found another constellation, but I'm not sure how right I am and how appropriate it may be considering the repeats of Orion in later episodes.

When it was first mentioned that Orion ''may be'' in Cally's look out the window, I went to check it, but couldn't see Orion. However, around about where the reflection of Cally's cheek is, there is a group of stars I believe may be [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crux Crux] (also known as the Southern Cross, an important navigational constellation in the southern hemisphere). To the left of the cross (up when looking at the screen) are two bright stars, which may be the Pointers.

But there's a couple of problems. First is the later reappearance of Orion as a point of reference. Second is that the Pointers are too close together, but that issue can be circumvented by having The Fleet in a position where ''most'' of the stars line up but the Pointers appear closer together.

Am I on to something, or am I reading too much into the random dot patterns normally used for starfields ? [[User:Saberwyn|Saberwyn]] 10:47, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

== Main image ==

Shouldn't the image be one w/Cally in it, since this was essentially her episode? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 20:48, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
: It could, but that'd be like switching around the seating arrangements on ''Titanic''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:27, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
: See above. It used to be, and it really fits better than another generic Final Five picture, but using vertically aligned pictures is a bit problematic for the layout. Though cutting off a bit at the bottom would work. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
:: I'm not against cropping or resizing portrait-oriented pictures in order to make it work for the infobox. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

== Weird Overdub / Name Change ==

In my universal-playback UK/Region 2 S4 boxset (white silver cover with red dress number 6) there's one really strange overdub which stick out like a sore thumb: in the early scene of Lee Adama's acceptance speech he says "And so I am honored to accept this appointment to the quorum in the hope that I can continue Delegate Cowan's courageous work on behalf of the people of Caprica and the Fleet." Except in this version the two words "Delegate Cowan's" are badly overdubbed with "Delegate Cowlin's", and the subtitles also say Cowlin's. Later on in the scene between Lee and Zarek, Lee says "I had some bills I wanted to discuss. Projects Delegate Cowan was pushing before she died. But they told me she wasn't in." Here the audio and subtitles both agree on Cowan. I was sort of hoping there'd already be some sort of explanation here. It's really quite obvious! Anyone know what's going on there? [[User:Jsbsgw|Jsbsgw]] 00:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

: Name changes and dialogue dubs are actually quite common.... I'll have to check the script, but it wouldn't be surprising if "Cowlin" was in the original shooting draft. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 00:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

:It will be interesting to see if that's also done for the US DVDs or just the UK ones, though there shouldn't be such "major" differences. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:27, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Cylon Centurion/Archive 1

2011-06-30T09:56:05Z

Caldumidoan: /* Spinning chest balls */

The stub calls the Warrior an "upgrade" of the old chrome toaster.
Given what we have seen of the inside of the BaseStar and Starbuck's Raider, isn't it likely that the Warrior is a product of the semi-organic line of Cylons?

The Warrior is, at best, the conceptual and functional sucessor to the old Centurion. A similar relationship might be found between the the M-4 Sherman tanke of World War II and the M-1A2 Abrams tank of today. Both machines do the same job, have many analogous features, but the only contributions the Sherman made to the development of the Abrams were its flaws.

Nick Kuzmik

: Actually, given that we never saw any organic matter come out of a shot Cylon Warrior, we can assume it is more robotic than organic. Obviously, this has not been stated overtly, so it is still conjecture. Therefore, it is possible that the Cylon Warrior is an "evolutionary" step to an organic-like Cylon (one with more fluid movement and flexibility) using non-organic materials. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe.Beaudoin]] (not logged in)

We need a better pic, like one from the miniseries or "33".--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:03, 24 February 2006 (EST)

== Deployed Greatly ==

What does "However, when Centurions are deployed greatly, they are deployed in huge numbers." mean? I'd delete it outright, but someone just added it, so I'd feel bad. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 13:56, 1 April 2006 (CST)

:I have no such compunction. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:09, 1 April 2006 (CST)

Bigger problem: what's with that ''entire'' paragraph? How do we *know* they weren't deployed in large numbers on the ground to mop up colonial units after the intial attacks? I always assumed they were, just off screen.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:46, 1 April 2006 (CST)

<blockquote>The Cylon Centurions may also have different armors. For instance, a small number of them wreaked havoc when boarding Galactica, and could only be destroyed using explosive rounds (Valley of Darkness). </blockquote>
Other than their resistance to small arms fire, there was no indication that the Centurion boarding party comprised an up-armored model, although that would not be a bad a idea considering the close and nasty fighting they could anticipate.

Comparison of the images on the Centurion page <ref>http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Cylon_Centurion_New_001.jpg</ref> and <ref>http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Centz.jpg</ref> does show evidence of modified armor. Furthermore, additional armor would reduce speed and manuverability, which creates a contradiction, as the attack on Galactica is when the Centurions were at their most nimble. I propose that this is not a matter of Cylon armor, but of Colonial ammo.

Its been a while... that and I don't own any of the DVD's so somebody has to help me out here...
But Helo and Boomer's "kills" on Caprica are suspect because the Cylons were playing with him. Did we ever confirm the destruction of a Centrion via Colonial Fleet sidearm fire? Or did they just fall down and play dead after getting hit with lead spitballs?

On Kobol, again, I don't recal any confirmed pistol kills, we did see some probable rifle kills. But a rifle with full metal jacket, ball round; heck, if I'm fighting Cylons, all I'm bringing is armor-piercing; is a very different catridge from a pistol round. By way of example, fire a full metal jacket, 9 mm Parabellum from a HK P9 pistol. Now fire that same round from an HK MP5. The MP5 will have higher muzzle velocity, longer range, greater accuracy, and greater penetration. Changed that to a necked-down micro-caliber, and a service rifle could concievably take out Centurions with the right ammo.

Which brings us to the question: "Why didn't they have the good bullets on Galactica?" Sean Connery said it oh so well in Hunt For Red October, "Most of the things in here don't react too well to bullets."
Shipboard security is probably issued some time of frangible round that won't over penetrate, and won't richocet too much. That also means it is pretty much uselless against armor. The limited stockpile of explosive rounds are there "just in case" they need to penetrate some armor, but the dedicated armor piercing ammo is probably stored somewhere that was not conveniently accessible.

With regards to the Cylons varried speed and intelligence, I still think that the Centurions are like the Raiders, crunchy on the outside, chewy on the inside. Its also possible that the team sent to board Galactica was a group of elites. Older, more experiences, better trained. Kind of like Scar in a way...

[[User:Grimlock|Grimlock]] 20:24, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

:You make some good speculative points based on episode history. You might want to review the article to see where you can add these questions you bring up as references or in the notes section of the article, as appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 03:29, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

:That centurions come equipped with different armor was mentioned by Bradley Thompson in the BW:OC. They are neither organic nor sentient though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:06, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
:Yeah, I noticed the stuff about the non-sentient, non-organic stuff shortly after writing all that. I guess the if its an official source we have to accept the assorted armor thing. Though it begs the question, why not use the beefy ones more often?
[[User:Grimlock|Grimlock]] 23:19, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
:: The Cylons are practical beings, who are limited by the amount of natural resources at their disposal. It follows that they may not need to upgrade Centurions ''en masse'' since it's not the most practical thing to do. As Six mentions in the Miniseries, they still have the old "walking chrome toaster" models around, since they have their uses. Or they may simply be limited by said resources at their disposal. After all, you don't need a heavily armored Cylon to plant tress now, do you? In addition to that question, bear in mind that Centurions also double as manual labor -- heavier armor detracts their effectiveness, even if they are machines. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 07:48, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

== Armor Hood ==
More a question of curiosity then anything else, but while I was looking at some of the pictures (especially the ones from the miniseries and those from season 3) I noticed the metal "hood" the Centurions have that covers the back of their head seems to vary in sizes. In the miniseries and the full body picture in the wiki, the hood seems to rise higher then the top of the cylon's head. But in other [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Centz.jpg shots], such as those of the Centurion garding Baltar in Collaborators, the hood seems noticeably smaller. I'm wondering if its a change in design or simply due to the positioning of the Cylon's head. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 22:40, 30 October 2006 (CST)
:It's just the positioning, the Centurions have looked the same throughought the whole series, if only looking a bit taller....but they're probably the same height too. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:51, 30 October 2006 (CST)

== Downloads and Centurions ==

We've already established that Centurions are just 'bots. No organics, presumably no downloading. While Athena may have provided the reasoning behind that, there is a good reason not to limit the Centurions that way. The best example is Scar. He was experienced, wily, and very lethal.

Now imagine how the events in Valley Darkness could have gone if there was one centurion on each team that had 1/3 of that skill and experience. I'm not saying the Centurions can't learn... but if they can learn and benefit from experience, are they smart enough to rebel later?

The smart move would be to build a Centurion around the CNS of a skin job and just download into a "combat" body when needed. But this doesn't seem possible. Recall tha tCavil had to scratch open his carotid artery with and empty shell casin.

Not sure where I'm going here but something is bugging me
[[User:Grimlock|Grimlock]] 13:03, 11 November 2006 (CST)

== Slur/nickname sources ==
It'd look great if we could track down the episodes where the "bullethead", etc., euphemisms are used and cite them using ref tags (so that we'd actually have a references section). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:21, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
:I added them directly into the article, but they are in order. Should be their first appearances, but "bullethead" and" "chrome job" have been used on other occasions too I think --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:16, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

== Height ==
Guys, how tall are Centurions? Majestic's 12-inch figure is really 13.5' (1:6) which would translate into a real-life height of 6'9' '. Others say it's more like seven or even eight feet. What do you think? -- [[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 09:02, 23 September 2007 (CDT)hat
:I would say, based on on screen evidence, that they are in the 6'5' to 6'7' range. --[[User:Helo87|Helo87]]

==Knowledge of the Five==
There's a line in the article which I feel we should perhaps remove-

:'''''"As with the Seven humanoids, the identities of the "Final Five" Cylons are not known to Centurions, as several soldiers have fired on these people before, notably Samuel Anders."'''''

I think this mainly because it's not a fact, and the fact is that for all we know they haven't been shooting at Anders but at his resistance people (never actually hit him), so whether they do or don't recognize the Five is not really known, and while we can guess from what we see, it's not certain. So I would suggest we just remove it to prevent any possible problems in the future. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:02, 17 October 2007 (CDT)
: I agree, since it isn't explicitly stated or inferred one way or the other. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:11, 17 October 2007 (CDT)

== Laser gun? ==

Too me it looks more like a shotgun --[[User:KDP3|KDP3]] 22:23, 9 December 2007 (CST)
: Are you referring to the caption for the image in the gallery? If so, the image caption says "large gun", not "laser gun". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 22:28, 9 December 2007 (CST)

yeah I reread it {{unsigned|KDP3}}

== "Shooting" Cylons ==

The process of actually comping in a Cylon Centurion is a little different than described in the final paragraph. The cardboard cutout is used only for framing purposes, so that there's enough space for VFX to place a Centurion properly. Stand-ins may be used in blocking out complex moves, but when it comes to shooting, there's nothing there, meaning the actors are reacting to empty space. Anything left in the shot would mean additional work for VFX to erase it before comping something. I haven't seen the video blog referenced (Sci-Fi seems to have taken down the blogs), but it almost sounds like a joke the crew was playing on hapless PAs. -- [[User:Mmm...toasty|Mmm...toasty]] 21:10, 13 February 2008 (CST)

== Re-formatting the article. ==

Would anyone consider re-formatting this article to make it more like the one for the 0005 Model Centurion? I like the general design of that page and the way that it cleanly presents information - and that it gels with the ship articles in terms of layout. I could redo this article to fit said mold in the next few weeks, if this is desired by the community, or someone else could do it before hand if they want to see it done earlier. --[[User:Helo87|Helo87]]

== Telencephalic Inhibitor Implications (see link to other talk page) ==

[[Talk:Telencephalic_inhibitor#Implications_are_being_propigated.]]

There are massive irresponsible implications being made, that have no basis in the show canon. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 09:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

==New Design, or Variant Centurion?==
In the sixth episode of the fourth season, Faith, a Centurion in the Hybrid's chamber has a design that differs from the ones we'd seen previously. Here is an image:

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1618/centurionsgq3.jpg

It's not a huge difference, mainly those added divisions on the shoulders, but the Centurion also appears to be a bit shorter and slightly thicker. Idk if it's worthy of being mentioned, or what other's thoughts on this are.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

== Spinning chest balls ==

Has anyone else notices the spinning ball in the Cylon Centurion's chest? Has this been explained? [[User:Escyos|Escyos]] 23:23, 29 June 2011 (EDT)

:Random spinning, flashing or otherwise animated parts is something sci-fi artists seem to love putting into their work. I can only assume it is because "it looks cool", because they rarely, if ever, make any sense from an engineering point of view. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 05:56, 30 June 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Tomb of Athena/Archive 1

2010-03-02T19:50:27Z

Caldumidoan: /* The Tomb of Athena's hologram no longer makes any sense */

This page looks great. Congrats to the updaters. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:55, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

== The Tomb of Athena's hologram no longer makes any sense ==

The events of the finale have invalidated the information within the Tomb shown in "[[Home, Part II]]. The Tomb clearly shows modern constellations as viewed from our Earth, but the Lords of Kobol wouldn't have known about it, the Thirteenth Tribe went to a ''different'' Earth, and God led the Fleet to our Earth 150,000 years ago (so the constellations wouldn't have looked like that due to stellar drift). Kevin Grazier, ''BSG'' science advisor, considered the Tomb problem one of his biggest regrets from working on the show ([http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/03/20/battlestar-galactica-watched-the-finale-exclusive-interview-with-kevin-grazier-science-advisor/ full interview here], emphasis added):

:''Is there anything you wish you could change?''

:Grazier: There’s two. There’s one that I recognized too late. That was when the explosion in "[[Water]]" blew out the side of the [Galactica] and we have a big venting of water. [Galactica] was connected to the Virgon Express. That would have imparted a pretty healthy delta v [change in velocity], meaning it would have yanked the Virgon Express with [the Galactica] and probably broken the water lines. I didn’t think of that until too late, and I called and said “hang on!” and they said “that ship’s sailed, sorry.” That was the second episode and I was a baby science advisor then. '''The other one is I wish I would have been more insistent with the constellations in "[[Home, Part II]]." Because when you start thinking about those constellations, who put them there? Wasn’t the Kobolians. Those aren’t seen from the original Earth, so where did those constellations come from?'''

:''Those constellations were a big part of why was I sure the show had to be set in the future!''

:Grazier: '''Right. I wish I had been more insistent on “we really need to rethink this.”'''

Obviously, this was a writing error (the finale hadn't been thought up yet when this episode was penned), but it still sticks out like a sore thumb.

Anyway...can I add this information to the "Notes" section? -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 01:02, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

: Absolutely! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 01:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

::Alrighty, I'm on it! Time to cut 'n' paste, and do a little creative editing so I don't sound so rambly... -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 02:28, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

This reminds me, I remember RDM saying on the post-Daybreak RDM response thread on the Syfy (then Scifi) forum, if not an interview, that the bit about the Thirteenth Tribe seeing their twelve brothers in the sky was an example of mistranslated scripture actually referring to the fleet-descendants seeing the twelve colonies' signs in the sky on our Earth in the future. My memory of it is a bit vague and I wouldn't know which page it's on. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:10, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

:Sounds like RDM was trying to cover his ass. ;) -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 13:24, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

::Well, duh. But as long as it makes sense. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:16, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Just realized that this would ''still'' be wrong. In "[[Revelations]]," Gaeta states that the constellations seen from the Earth they'd just found match those found in the Tomb. This is incorrect, as it's later revealed to not be our Earth! The constellations would ''not'' look the same from two planets so far apart. -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 18:51, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

::::There's something from Grazier or in a podcast about that. Gaeta said ''visible'' star patterns were a match. Five or so out of twelve constellations were right, and he was excited. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

:::::Even those would not have matched, as it was a completely different planet and time. -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 19:24, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

::::::We can't say with certainty that there's not another part of the galaxy where a handful of the constellations, despite consisting of different stars from a different angle, look like ours. We've never been there. Anyway, that's the official word. Gaeta saw a few constellations that looked similar to those in the Tomb and figured it was good enough. He wasn't looking a gift horse in the mouth.

::::::As for the time, I'm afraid the staff might not actually know that constellations shift. Although, do they really shift a lot in 150,000 years? That's not much in cosmic time, right? I'm unaware how fast it happens. Though, on the other hand, they might be aware. The characters never said the Ancient Earth II had the Tomb constellations, which you'd think they would comment on.

::::::Actually it occurs to me that since constellations are mental patterns ascribed to the stars, it should be relatively easy to find one in another part of the galaxy that you think looks like one you know. And Gaeta would attribute discrepancies to the fact that the map was left thousands of years ago. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:29, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

:::::::I guess so. That just seems like stretching it, even for a scifi show where God did all of the work. ;) -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 19:48, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

::::::::[http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Movies/proper.html Here] is a page showing how the Big Dipper changes over 200,000 years. Other constellations may change more or less. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 19:50, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

The Plan

2009-10-28T18:47:15Z

Caldumidoan: /* Notes */ It's impossible to orbit a hemisphere, one must orbit the entire planet. The shipyard may have been in a non-equatorial orbit.

{{Episode Data
| image=The Plan - Tigh and Adama in Galactica Corridor.jpg
| title= The Plan
| season=
| special=Y
| episode=
| guests=
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]] <ref name ="cyloncentric">{{cite_web|url=http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/08/battlestar-gala.html|title='Battlestar Galactica': Edward James Olmos will direct Cylon-centric special feature|date=08-06-2008|accessdate=09-03-2008}}</ref>
| story=
| director= [[Edward James Olmos]]<ref name ="cyloncentric"/>
| production= 101 - 01001
| rating=
| US airdate=2010
| CAN airdate=
| UK airdate=
| dvd=October 27, 2009
| population=
| prev=[[Daybreak, Part II]]
| next=
}}

== Overview ==
:''This special episode, based on the episode title, involves characters and events based around the series' premise stated in the opening credits of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and their plan for humanity. The episode is set during the events of the [[Miniseries]] and Season 2, told from the Cylons' perspective, and is currently in post-production.<ref>See [[Mark Verheiden|Mark Verheiden's]] entry on his [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/08/battlestar-galactica-plan.html blog, August 9, 2008.]</ref>The disappearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]] is explained, as is [[Ellen Tigh]]'s mysterious appearance. [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Number One|John Cavil]] are the main viewpoint characters.<ref>Tricia Helfer interview with USA Weekend:[http://blogs.usaweekend.com/whos_news/2009/01/exclusive-trici.html]</ref>''

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

The show opens with the statement "The Cylons where created by man. They rebelled. They evolved. They look and feel human. Some are programmed to think they are human. There are many copies and they have a Plan." While this is being said they show the Cylon Fleet.

Next, you are taken inside Galatica and you see two Ones being escorted to an airlock. Both of them are having a difference of opinion.

One A - "I was doing fine here, thanks for exposing me."

One B - "You weren't doing fine. Thank goodness. If you'd wiped out this fleet you would have made us ever more irredeemable in the eyes of our parents."

One A - "No, I would have proved us to be superior."

One B - "No, no see, I figured out what went wrong."

One A - "Well that's a very useful revelation to have, if your standing in front of an airlock."

One B - "None the less"

One A - "Our failure is obvious, we had our foot on the throat of humanity and we failed to step down hard enough."

One B - "That was our error. Have you learned nothing in all this time in the fleet. Because I learned a great deal among the rebels on Caprica. Every killing of a human being was a grievous error. You want to know why."

One A - "I really don't."

One B - "Are you certain?" Because it's fascinating."

One A - "Listen brother. If you are right, that means this whole project was doomed from the beginning."

One B - "Yes, from the very top."

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
*The planet behind the Universal Studios logo at the beginning of the movie is [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] instead of [[Earth]].
*Unknown to the Colonials there apparently ''was'' a second Resurrection Ship nearby by the time the Cavil's were executed allowing them to download into new bodies when killed, although the Caprica copy was presumably boxed.
* ''Galactica'' Cavil was Ellen's mysterious hero that saved her from the attack on Picon. It was known to be a Number One, but it wasn't clear exactly ''which'' one it was.
*An outfit is listed on propworx<ref>[http://archive.battlestarprops.com/1003/192 Gina's Outfit in Scene with Boomer]</ref> as being worn in the extended version of "Daybreak" by [[Gina Inviere]], in a scene where she speaks to [[Sharon Valerii]] just before the latter becomes a sleeper agent. This scene does not appear in the extended "Daybreak", but [[Ronald Moore]]'s commentary on that episode states that it was moved to "The Plan". Thus, the Six seen speaking to Boomer is Gina Inviere.
*[[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] is identified in "The Plan" as ''Scorpia'' Fleet Shipyards.

== Analysis ==
*Given the ''Galactica'' copy of Cavil's comments in the airlock, his resurrected self is the copy that led the anti-human Cylon faction during the [[Cylon Civil War]] and later killed himself permanently in CIC during the [[Battle of The Colony]].

== Questions ==
* Did Giana take her husband's surname? In other words, is the full alias of Number Four actually "Simon O'Neil"?
* Is ''Galactica'' Cavil really the same Cavil that leads one side of the Cylon Civil War?

== Official Statements ==

===Future Movies===
Speaking at the 2009 San Diego Comic Con, director and star of ''The Plan'', [[Edward James Olmos]] stated that he believes there will be several more ''Battlestar Galactica'' movies in the future and is confident that the DVD release of ''The Plan'' will sell well enough to facilitate these films:
:"As a matter of fact, I've got to tell you right now. Because of you all, what you're doing, because of the love for that world...I can guarantee that this will not be the last movie." <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://io9.com/5322385/olmos-the-plan-wont-be-the-last-bsg-movie|title=Olmos: The Plan Won't Be the Last BSG Movie|date=Fri Jul 24 2009|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
This statement, however, is by no means official, as both [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron Moore]], [[David Eick]], and [[SciFi Channel|SyFy]] have made no mention of any additional ''Battlestar'' films.

Olmos later went on to clarify that if ''The Plan'' sold ¾ of a million copies (750,000) then Universal Studios would assuredly be willing to produce future ''Battlestar''-related productions. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/2009/08/edward-james-olmos-holds-court.html|title=Edward James Olmos holds court|date=Sat 08 Aug 2009|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*Sam and his team our practicing at the Pyramid Training camp on Caprica, you see Sam lying on the ground just after the coach had showed him up by making a goal. He is looking up into the sky just as the bombs are coming in and he says, "This has happened before." It was as if part of Sam's memory was breaking through trying to warn him that the cycle was starting again.

*Ellen Tigh makes a similar statement when she first comes to after the attacks.

*{{audio|Colonies of man.mp3|''A Hybrid summarizes the Fall of the Twelve Colonies and notes all but the two most religious colonies (Gemenon and Sagittaron):''}}
:Progress report surviving.
:The farms of [[Aerilon]] are burning.
:The beaches of [[Canceron]] are burning.
:The planes of [[Leonis]] are burning.
:The jungles of [[Scorpia]] are burning.
:The pastures of [[Tauron]] are burning.
:The harbours of [[Picon]] are burning.
:The cities of [[Caprica]] are burning.
:The oceans of [[Aquaria]] are burning.
:The court houses of [[Libran]] are burning.
:The forrests of [[Virgon]] are burning.
:The colonies of man lie trampled at our feet.

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]] <ref name ="morecylons">{{cite_web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/09/battlestar-gala.html|title='Battlestar Galactica' movie snares Tricia Helfer, Grace Park and lots more Cylons|date=09-03-2008|accessdate=10-11-2009}}</ref>
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]] <ref name ="morecylons"/>
* [[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel T. Anders]] <ref name ="cyloncentric"/>
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]] <ref name ="cyloncentric"/>
* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]] <ref name ="theplancast">{{cite_web|url=http://io9.com/5106866/cylon-confessions-and-a-surprising-hookup-in-bsgs-tv-movie|title='Battlestar Galactica': Cylon Confessions, And A Surprising Hookup, In BSG's TV Movie|date=12-10-2008|accessdate=03-07-2009}}</ref>
* [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Number One]] <ref name ="cyloncentric"/>
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]] <ref name ="morecylons"/>
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Number Four]] <ref name ="theplancast"/>
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]] <ref name ="morecylons"/>
* [[Lymari Nadal]] as [[Giana O'Neill]] <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.doorq.com/Blog.aspx?b=1667|title=DRAGON*CON: More Galactica Info from Olmos at Colonial Fleet Party}}</ref>
* [[Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]]

== Ships ==
Yashuman (Battlestar Valkyrie Type)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Edward James Olmos]]

Talk:Precipice/Archive 1

2009-02-11T09:21:14Z

Caldumidoan: /* Cylon numbers revealed? */ new section

: For earlier discussions in this talk page prior to October 3, 2006, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Precipice&oldid=81257 click here].

__TOC__

==Production Number==
What's up with "Episode 1.5"? Shouldn't this count as episode 2 of the season, even if it's being aired as a 2-hour premiere? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:53, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:Thats what ive always said, but for some reason all the episode numbering is messed up. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:35, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:The writers officially count "Occupation / Precipice" as one episode. Bradley Thompson said that there will probably be only one intro. So "Precipice" still belongs to episode 1 (hence 1.5) and Season 3 only has 19 episodes on paper --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
::However, in terms of budgeting and production, "Occupation/Precipice" was 3.01 and 3.02, while "Exodus, Part I" and "Exodus, Part II" were both 3.03. Clearly our numbering system shouldn't reflect the vagaries of production, or else both parts of "Resurrection Ship" would be episodes 2.11 and Season 2 would only have 19 episodes.
::At the same time, we should ask - were "Occupation" and "Precipice" truly edited into a single episode, or is SciFi simply airing two episodes back to back on premiere night? In the event of the former, there should be a single entry for both "Occupation" and "Precipice". In the latter, they should retain separate entries, and each should have their own episode number (and none of this "1.5" business). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:34, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:::FWIW, [http://www.scifi.com/schedulebot/index.php3?date=6-OCT-2006&feed_req SciFi's schedule] has the premiere listed as a single two-hour block under the title "The Occupation/Precipice". I'd lay good money on them splitting it into two episodes for syndication, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:37, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Well, you could wait until the episodes have aired and edit it then. But I asked Mr. Thompson about just this, and he said "I have not seen the transition yet, but I believe it will be one episode. Which is why Episode 19 is the season 3 finale" in BW:OC. Good point about syndication though. Maybe the place where the break would be is cleary visible. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:43, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Having given it considerable thoght, I think the best reason not to merge them into a single article is that I don't want to be citing ([[The Occupation/Precipice]]) as a single unit for the rest of time. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 06:15, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::One thing I think people aren't getting that that there ARE 20 episodes. "Occuprice" is episode 1, Exodus part 1 is episode 2, so on, totaling up to twenty. (I think) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::Whoops, scratch my previous comment that was here, I was wrong. For what it's worth, my DirecTV guide has it as a single two hour airing. With a repeat right after. Methinks that'll be good if there's a podcast for em.--[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::There are twenty ''hours'', and (if Occupation/Precipice is counted as one episode) nineteen episodes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:Why not refer to Occupation/Precipice as "Episode 1," the following episode as "Episode 3," place a link to "Episode 1" on the Precipice page, and whenever Precipice is referred to as a separate episode, call it "Episode 2." Put a brief summary of Precipice in the Episode 2 article, put anything specific to Episode 2 in that article (if, say, there is a single Episode 2 podcast), and refer to the combined page for everything else. [[User:Joe n bloe|Joe n bloe]] 12:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

===Suggestion===
Here's a thought: Let's follow SciFi's lead with the podcasts. If they put up podcasts for two four-act shows, we'll keep it as two episodes; if they put up a single podcast for an eight-act show, we'll merge them into a single Occupation/Precipice article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:38, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:Ya know, so far this is the best suggestion in this whole conversation because I somehow get the feeling that they at scifi are themselves not yet certain about what to call these 2 opening 5 act pieces,but by the time the show starts on Friday, I'm sure they will have it figured out so let's not do their job for them and try to guess what they will do. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 16:08, 4 October 2006 (AST)
::I suggest we wait till they air, and see if there's an end between the two. For what it's worth, my DirecTV onscreen guide is showing one two hour block with a repeat right after it. That'll be nice for the podcasts, watch the episode, then right after watch it with commentary. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:21, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
Moore refers to the show as "Occupation/Precipice" in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/10/#a001414 latest blog entry]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:04, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:RDM often will lead off each podcast with (outside the I'm RDM, etc.) "and this is episode X of season Y, 'Z'". That may provide some insight as well if he continues that practice. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 06:53, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/season03/ SciFi.com] gives the two-hour premiere production numbers 301 and 302. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:36, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:Using the second content warning after the ''bombing'' as the start of ''Precipice''. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 06:43, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::RDM states this on the podcast too. Baltar/Roslin cell scene is the first of ''Precipice''. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:07, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Exactly what I was going to say but noticed my comment didnt post (edit conflict) hehe --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 13:04, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::Agree. Two ''different'' episodes. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

==Pic==
What's that gold thing on Helo's lapel/uniform? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:52, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:Here is a better pic [[:Image:Greys_Mini.JPG]]. I believe that it is a symbol for the twelve colonies. But Kat doesn't have it?? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:11, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:It's a version of the Colonial seal with a smaller Phoenix in the center: http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=26&pos=81 --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:17, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
::If we don't have a pic here, we need it. :) --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:18, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:::The best option is probably to make a high resolution screencap from DVD (if a suitable closeup is available). Episodes with dress grays: Miniseries, Act of Contrition, Home II --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:25, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
In the episode itself, Kat's Grays does have the lapel pin. I was specifically looking for it in the scene, it must be a mistake in this picture. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:12, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:Yeah, made sure I checked that too. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:14, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

==Kacey==
I'd like to start a page for Kara's daughter, but I'm not really sure how to spell her name. Casey? Kasey? If it is Casey, we'll need to disambiguate, as there's already a pilot named that. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 13:47, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:I don't suppose anybody was watching with captions on? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:22, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::The credits have it has "Kacey" in the credits. Also, spelled that way the RDM Chicago Tribune article. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 14:51, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::I had the captions on, and it was "Kacey". --[[User:ThesposAZ|ThesposAZ]] 02:37, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::I am a captions type of guy also. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:39, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
Hey on the Answers thing for Kara's Duaghter says 16 months. That can't be right because it had to come to termm which would take nine months so two months after Baltar becomes the presisdent and the episode is 16 months subtract 2 months and she would be 14 months old and not 16 months old.- Best Snorkel378
:Incorrect. Baltar was elected c. Day 280. The one-year jump brought us to c. Day 660 by the end of LDYB2. Occupation began on the 134th day of the Cylon occupation, bringing us to c. Day 794 - roughly 27 months after the holocaust. Kara's ovary was removed during The Farm, which took place roughly 2 months after the holocaust. Add nine months for gestation and we get 27-(2+9) = 16. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::To clarify - your problem is that you're rounding dates down and the error is accumulating. The jump forward in LDYB2 was 380 days, which is about 12 and 2/3 months. Then the jump between LDYB2 and Occupation is 134 days, which is 4 and 1/2 months. On top of it, the election in LDYB2 didn't take place exactly 270 days after the holocaust - the debates lasted about ten days, which is another 1/3 month, and the events of "Downloaded" were ''also'' said to be about 9 months post-holocaust, which pushes LDYB2 a few days forward to make everything fit. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:48, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
Does anyone think that Kacey might have been deliberately injured while Kara was out of the room, to force her sentiments? The Cylons have been shown to inflict wounds on one another for the purpose of emotional manipulation before, to encourage feelings of love between humans and Cylons (the Litmus episode). Since Kara's imprisonment seems to be one big mind game, I can't shake this feeling. --[[User:tt25|tt25]] 15:57, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: I believe this to be likely. However, this is assuming that Kasey is Kara's biological child -- or even a hybrid at all. Kasey could just as easily be a child they picked up off the streets of New Caprica to mind-frak Kara. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:51, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:: I think, the actress does not fit to Kasey's age of 16 month. Children do their first steps, when they are about one year old. Kasey trampolines on the sofa and runs around. Her behaviour is too safe. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 11:53, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:::She is however a human/cylon hybrid and might not necesserily match human development. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::::The producers have been clear that Hera, another human/Cylon hybrid, will not have unusually fast growth. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::::: If anything, Hera has unusually SLOW growth. The scene where her adopted mother goes to be with her at the end of season 2 shows a baby, yet this was clearly 12+ months after she was born. She should have been larger and such. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 03:11, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::: She was born prematurely. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:48, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::Was that even Hera then though, or was it just a random other baby being looked after in the school/creché? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:24, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::It was named as "Isis", but the child's asian features, the fact that the mother was [[Maya]] (Hera's adopted mother in "[[Downloaded]]"), and (most tellingly) the white crib from Baltar's vision in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" imply that the child is Hera beyond all reasonable doubt. Also, recall that Roslin had intended to keep a close eye on the child, and note RDM's comments regarding an abandoned plotline featuring Hera/Isis in the Occuprice podcast. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:28, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::I just want to bring up the fudge factor when determining kasey's age in that she could have been a premee just like Hera. You could add as much as 3 months to her development. So what was the guess, 16 months? Add 3 months to that as a fudge factor and you get 19 months, that's close to 2 years. And since Cylon related births have a history of difficulty (No Cylon/Cylon children, all known forced Cylon/Human pregnancy have fail -- The Farm, first known surviving Cylon/Human baby <Hera> was a premee), it's reasonable to figure in a fudge factor. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 14:32, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Here is a thought. The cylon bodies that are waiting to be downloaded into have to be grown, right? Maybe they stopped the growth process of a Six, and that is where Kacey came from? Just another "could be." in the BSG world.--[[User:CylonGod|CylonGod]] 00:17, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:Nice thought, but what indicator is there that the bodies of Cylon agents have to be grown? IIRC, Starbuck's flyby of the [[Resurrection Ship]] only showed adult Sixes in their vats. It could be that they're constructed as adults from the get-go and not aged from a fetal core.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 13:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== Citations ==

I added citations but it somehow made the spoiler text unreadable. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:56, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

:I noted this and was unsuccessful in adding them back myself as I was massively concising the article while you made the attempt. I am adding the links here (WARNING: These links go to interviews that contain spoilers and, as with the technical issues, can't be hidden.)

:*[http://www.mediablvd.com/magazine/Magazine-Home/MBMag_20060420145.html comments from Grace Park], [http://z9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=5610 Dean Stockwell], and [http://z9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=5655 Tricia Helfer]

:--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:05, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

::Does anyone have the copies of Battlestar Galactica Magazine so we can create official cites? I know these articles exist. but we really need the official "cite". --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:00, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Agree. Linking to a members-only message board is hardly satisfactory. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:54, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Concur. I have the July issue and will look for the comments. I may have the Grace Park issue as well to confirm. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:37, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Fairly sure that the Dean Stockwell comments are in the last issue, 7. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:26, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

The citations linked above have all been deleted, and were never accessible to non-members in the first place. If the comments referring to these articles are to continue in the main namespace, then citations from the BSG magazine (or another appropriate source) must be supplied promptly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:53, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Here's an example that still works: http://galactica-station.blogspot.com/2006/09/six-shooter_115935580941130304.html
I wish I could give a citation from the magazine, but I don't have any issues of it. Could someone please do that? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:44, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Ahem, has no one noticed the above? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 09:22, 8 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon on Cylon action ==

Boomer's destruction of the basestar is a bad example, as being a sleeper agent she didn't have the cultural taboo active, and her success appears to have been instrumental in getting her in position to accomplish her mission. I'd use an example of known Cylon on known Cylon on that bullet (which I don't have off the top of my head). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
:Agreed. That doesn't really make any sense. There might be Caprica-Sharon shooting a Six in "33", but one could argue that that doesn't count, because it was necessary. However, she does shoot another Sharon in "[[Colonial Day]]". -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
::How about Caprica-Sharon using a Heavy Raider to shoot the crap out of some Centurions in [[The Farm]]? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 18:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
:::We're talking humanoid Cylons here. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:04, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
::::Not according to the quote, which says "Cylon-on-Cylon violence". But even then, Caprica-Sharon shot a fellow Sharon in [[Colonial Day]]. D'Anna's statement may not be true, but she has no way of knowing that. The nuke in the basestar was done by a sleeper agent and had been ordered by a human, the Sharon in Colonial Day never saw her attacker, the Centurions who were shot to pieces in [[The Farm]] didn't resurrect (since they have no biological components, I think it's reasonable to assume Centurions have no conciousness and therefore don't download) and the Heavy Raider involved in that incident was taken to ''Galactica'' and never got a chance to communicate with the Cylons. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 19:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::She is referring to the attack on her in "Downloaded" and from their point of view, the humanoids ''are'' the Cylon. So by context, she's just talking about the humanoid models. You're right about the limited knowledge though. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

== This guide... ==

Is just plain bad. We need to expand, cleanup, and fix up! All people who have the Season 3 disc set, load this disc up and fix! Make it Act 1, etc. etc. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 22:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, I noticed that too. We didn't really do such extremely detailed summaries back then, but even for that time it seems lacking. The Analysis section could also be improved. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== trucks ==

Where did the trucks come from? What ship in the colonial or cylon fleet would have trucks aboard and for what purpose? Could they have been designed and built within the 15 months on the planet? They also look remarkably "Earth" like, perhaps more than any other design in the series. Therefore it would be appropriate and interesting to give these a mention. [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 14:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
: Well, we've seen trucks in the series before on Caprica, so it's not a new development. There presence on New Caprica could be explained one of two ways:
:# They were aboard a Colonial freighter that joined the Fleet—and if you really want to be a nerd about it, you could say that they were on the Colonial Movers ship. ;-)
:# The Cylons built them. They had the resources to build the detention center and all that, and as such they would need equipment to do that (cranes, trucks, etc).
-- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

== Cylon numbers revealed? ==

I just noticed that when the cylons vote aboard Colonial One, they do so in numerical order. Coincidence, or first hint? Is it worth mentioning? [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 09:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Battlestar Wiki:Chiefs' noticeboard

2008-11-25T07:57:09Z

Caldumidoan: /* Links on the left */ new section

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This noticeboard is a location to discuss and coordinate administrative tasks for the Battlestar Wiki.

It is our hope that this place can serve as a location for administrators to coordinate their efforts on the maintenance tasks of the Wiki (it's not ALL fun and games), as well as a spot for our contributors to be able to bring things to the attention of the admins if something needs to be done. Need a protected page edited? An article or picture deleted? Admins will watchlist this page so that your request won't get lost in the shuffle.

{{ArchiveTOC}}

{{newsection link}}

== Current Administrators ==

===Senior Chiefs===
Senior chiefs are, in Wikipedia's terminology, bureaucrats who have the ability to make other users into chiefs. They also have the ability to check user and other advance functions not under the purview of the chiefs.
Currently senior chiefs are:
*[[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]]
*[[User:Shane|Shane]]
*[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]
*[[User:NCommander|NCommander]] (Technical Issues Only)

===Chiefs===
Chiefs are administrators who have access to move, delete and restore pages as well as blocking malicious users. The current chiefs are:
* Active
**[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]
**[[User:Gougef|Gougef]]
**[[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] (PR Coordinator)
**[[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] (Primary Wiki Frakr! Contact)
**[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]]
**[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]]
**[[User:Serenity|Serenity]]
**[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]]
* Inactive
**[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]
**[[User:Day|Day]]
**[[User:Talos|Talos]]
See [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators|list of all chiefs on Battlestar Wiki]]

== Javascript Reported Vandals ==

''No recent reports.''
<div style="clear:both;"></div>

== Upload errors ==

So, we're having upload errors... I haven't a clue how to fix it right now, but what I get is this:

: Could not rename file "/tmp/http/phpPZkJNu" to "public/7/7f/Genevieve_Buechner.jpg".

Now, the prefix should really be "/home/bsgwiki/public_html/media/images" and not "public" (no slash in front)... I wonder if there's a configuration setting fubared somewhere in one of 1.13's files? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

: Ok... this is what happens when the disembodied spirit of Jar Jar Binks inhabits all of us... what caused this issue was the fact that the partition was close to (or at) 100% full. We cleaned it up... and, besides, we're moving to a better server with more room to it anyway. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 21:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

== Subscription ==

Hi!
I have just paid the subscription fee for a year, but I can still see the ads after having logged out and in again. Is there anything I have to do to confirm it? Have I done anything wrong, or is it just a question of time for the subscription to go through and change my status?
Thanks a mill in advance for your help. -- [[User:Mouan|Mouan]] 16:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: Hi Mouan, I've confirmed your subscription and will set you up here for ads-free viewing in a few minutes... By the way, do you have an account on our [http://www.battlestarforum.com Battlestar Forum]? If so—or if you want to make one—please send me that info so I can enable ads-free viewing of our forums as well. Thank you for helping us out! :D -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
:: Mouan, you are all set for both places. Cheers! :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 17:52, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you guys. One thing - is the subscription valid for other language versions of the wiki or do I need to buy another one for the Spanish wiki? Because I have just checked and it still displays ads. Perhaps it needs to be set up like you did with this one? :) -- [[User:Mouan|Mouan]] 20:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Shane added you to the local (English) sponsor group, but he should've added you to the global sponsor group. @Shane: you can do that through [[Special:GlobalGroupPermissions]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:39, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::I got a permission error. Same with Joe. :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::It tells me I have to be a Senior Chief, which I'm not and you are. What error do you get? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
::::::Interestingly, it gives me the same message, despite the fact that I am a senior chief! Whoa! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 09:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you all. Works like a charm! :)-- [[User:Mouan|Mouan]] 21:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Everything has been updated... ==

Including all base extensions. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]])
:Global groups have been messed up again, though, meaning all global groups and their permissions are gone. I'll restore all that after dinner. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:44, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah. Minus that. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 15:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:I'm going through and fixing a few of the extensions. For instance, the hide sitenotice extension needs to be modified to allow for unregistered users to hide the message. I'll update this page when I'm done. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
::My bad. Roger that joe. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 15:57, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Don't sweat it. :) Fixes were simple. Everything I needed to do is done now. LOL -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Alright, global groups are back up. I've also promoted all sponsors to global status. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Minor DB issue on Media ==

Getting this whenever I post a new article:

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "efUpdateCheckUserData". MySQL returned error "1146: Table 'bsgwiki_media.cu_changes' doesn't exist (athena.frakmedia.net)".

The article edits still go through though... Probably a case of just needing to run the update.php app. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:Yup, update.php says "cu_changes table added and populated". Should be fixed now. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:: Great! Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:54, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

== Unified logon for other non-BSG Wikis ==

Also, while I'm at it, can the unified logon work for the other non-BSG Wikis? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:54, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:The fact that Wikimedia has cross-domain SUL (*.wikipedia.org, *.wiktionary.org, etc.) means it's possible. I'm [irc://freenode/#mediawiki stumping Brion] right now about the lack of documentation for CentralAuth and asking him how to do cross-domain SUL. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 21:08, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
::Alright, it turned out to be a configuration variable in CentralAuth.php that I overlooked. Which wikis would you like to add SUL to? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 21:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The Letterman List:

#http://www.battlestarpegasus.com
#http://en.eurekawiki.org
#http://media.eurekawiki.org
#http://wiki.frakr.com
#http://www.sanctuarywiki.org

That's it for now. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:21, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:OK, will do those tomorrow afternoon if I have time. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 22:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
::Doesn't all MediaWiki's then have to be the same version then? Minus the EurekaWiki, everything else has it's own mediawiki installation.. which is a bit crazy. :x [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 22:28, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Having all wikis share the same codebase would help a great deal in setting this thing up, yeah. All wikis don't necessarily have to have the same version, as long as they all have and support CentralAuth. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 22:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
::::I'd like to work on that before we did anything with the CentralAuth. The LocalSettings.php and the media folders we have to keep correct, but I think that would be the better move right now. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 23:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::Of course, I'd love it if you put all wikis on one codebase before I even touch CentralAuth. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 23:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::I'll be away until Monday, so once you've finished migrating all wikis to the same codebase, please drop me a note on my talk page and I'll get to it when I get back. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:08, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

== Skin breakage (again) ==

Somewhere in the last few days (probably related to the recent upgrade), the user options bar (Catrope / my talk / ... / log out ) started overlapping the pages tabs bar (article / discussion / ... / purge). This doesn't happen in the battlestar (default) skin, since they're miles apart there, but does happen in [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|useskin=bsgbook}} bsgbook] and [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|useskin=bsgmonobook}} bsgmonobook]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
: Yeah, I can confirm that. Frak. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

== Main Page Header Redesign ==

I worked on a re-design of the Main Page header on the [[BW:MAIN]] page. I also removed the airdates section. I have yet to add it to the design, but it be a bar under the two images. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 11:55, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
: The header is now bloated with the redesign. The header really needs to be as small as possible. To accomplish that, remove the airdate stuff from the header, and I think it'll be fine. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Help with the French Battlestar Wiki ==

Addressing Shane: I read about the request to help with the French page of Battlestar Wiki. I'm not sure what sort of help is needed, but I'm reasonably fluent in French and a fan of the re-imagined BSG. If this makes me qualified, perhaps I can be of assistance. I'm new to Wiki, though, which is why I'm posting this here (couldn't find a link for a personal post). Waiting to hear from you. -chimere
:You can post personal messages (sort of, everyone will be able to read them) on a user's talk page. For Shane, this is [[User talk:Shane]]. To start a new section, click the + sign next to the "edit" button on top of the page.
:As to helping with the French wiki: I suggest you browse around the wiki to see what has to be done there (which articles have to be created, improved, etc.) and start doing it. By signing up here you've already got an account on the French wiki as well, and you should be logged in automatically by just [[fr:|visiting it]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 21:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== Podcasts ==

To Steelviper:

Please continue the podcasts... Or else... ...how can we keep nerd talking about the series without knowing what's on Mr. Moore's evel mind? It's frakking difficult to understand Mr Moore's speech when english is not your native language. C'mon! Let the rest of the planet taste a little bit of that great series!

PS: Excelent work on episode 406 - Escape Velocity! Gonna start 407 this week! {{unsigned|Gnielsen}}

== Movie ==

We need an article on the BSG movie, now that it has been announced. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:I'm searching about for the announcement, so now I know I'm blind. I did create an episode guide for the [[Caprica (pilot))|Caprica pilot]], however. There could be as many as three BSG movies if Grace Park's comments are to be believed.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 04:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:There is an article about it called [[Proposed TV movies]] from the time when there were just rumors about it. Given that there is only one movie for the moment, but greenlighted, we should probably take that and move/rename it. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:: Right. I thought we already had an article... and that was it. Just couldn't find it. We could simply name it the "Cylon TV movie", since that's what it's gonna be about anyway according to the press release. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
::: Ok, now that we have [http://www.bcfilmcommission.com/about_us/film_list.htm?film_type=mow a name] for the movie that's officially been released (it is called "The Plan", at least for now) we should get cracking on the article. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

== What image in [[Scattered]]? ==

What image do the credits in "[[Scattered]]" refer to?
:Atlas Image Obtained As Part Of The Two Micron All Sky Survey (2Mass), a joint project of the University of Massachusetts and the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center/California Institute of Technology, funded by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the National Science Foundation.
--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 15:23, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

== TV.com ==

Should we include links to [[w:TV.com|TV.com]] on the infoboxes of cast and crew?--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 14:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

: No, I don't think that's really worth our trouble. IMDb already has the same info that TV.com does, if not more. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

== DVD Menu Pictures (and so on) ==

Would it go against any copyright policy to upload any images/video(?) of the ''BSG'' DVD menus? I think it would add a certain layer and provide for those who have yet to buy the DVDs, are just curious to see how the other Region DVDs look, or wanted to compare how the designs for each changed over time (i.e. the difference between [[Battlestar Galactica - Season One (Region 1 DVD)|Season 1 (Region 1 DVD)]] and [[Battlestar Galactica - Season Three (Region 1 DVD)|Season 3]]).--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 01:36, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
:A good question. Stills of the menus should be OK. Videos may be excessive from a size standpoint unless the interface has a definitive look that's appealing and unique. The differences between the regions (which is possible since the studios may license the packaging and interface to different companies in the world for distribution) would a benefit. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

== Concerning some of the planets ==

OK, since the message I left on [[Category talk:Planets]] has been ignored for nearly a week, I though I would leave a message here to express a concern, that some of the "planets" on the planets category are actually moons. So I am wondering if we could either move the category to "Planets and Moons", or just simply start a Moon category. What do you admins think. I thank you all in advance. -- [[User:Matthew R Dunn|Matthew R Dunn]] 00:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
: We could do either. Six of one, half dozen of the other, IMHO. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 01:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

== Credit lists ==

Before I go ahead and transcribed more, is it against any sort of policy to have the credits listed here as they appear on the show?
Here's the lists I have so far:
*[[User:DrWho42/Miniseries End Credits|Miniseries End Credits]]
*[[User:DrWho42/33 End Credits|33 End Credits]]
*[[User:DrWho42/Razor End Credits|Razor End Credits]] (''incomplete'')
--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 14:47, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

: Nope. We may need to beautify the lists though, in the way that the [[List of pilots]] or the cast and crew lists already are. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

== Firefox Add-on ==

Is there a possibility of having a Battlestar Wiki search engine for Firefox (as it isn't listed here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:4/cat:all?sort=name )?--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 18:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
:Who would program it? Is there a "kit" of sorts to do so? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
:Actually, in Firefox, if you click on the drop down item next to the search bar, you should see something like '''Add "Battlestar Wiki (en)"''' in the drop-down menu. Just click on that, and you should be able to search the wiki via Firefox's built in search apparatus. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
::Sadly, when I did that with 3.0.4, I got an error message in trying to add it. I've been loving the idea of creating an iPhone/iTouch app that would be a search engine for BW-En as well...I might write a developer to see if he can extend one of his products. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

== Links on the left ==

Anyone know why I have more useful links below the search box when I am logged out than when I am logged in? When logged in, I only have one box named Projects, but when logged out, it is replaced by Navigation, Series and Support. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 07:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Battlestar Galactica - Season Three (Region 2 DVD)/Archive 1

2008-06-21T14:59:08Z

Caldumidoan: /* Many region 2 releases */

Got a message from Play today saying my order has been posted. Should arrive on the 1st (a couple of days before the official release date) so I'll be able to update this page with any features and extras etc. *fingers crosses its better quality than the season 2 print* --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:37, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
:I'm very interested to know the extras. I've been holding off for now, as this seems to be another barebones set. If it turns out to have commentaries and deleted scenes, I'll still get it. And yeah picture quality sucked in some S2 episodes. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:42, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
::I think BSG is going to be a prime example of a really nice HD (either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) set in a few years time and fingers crossed the extras will all be on that. So far the UK dvds have been of very poor quality compared to the US versions. I could import the region 1 dvds but the downside to that is they are not in PAL and so it looks slightly odd sometimes. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:00, 30 August 2007 (CDT)
:::Season 1 is coming out on HD soon. I have a few NTSC sets and had no problems so far. Considering the possibility of bad transfer to PAL, the quality might even be better, although NTSC is worse than native PAL material. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:03, 30 August 2007 (CDT)

No extras, apart from the crappy clip show The Story So Far. What a load of bollocks. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:35, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
:Yet again UK fans are treated like shit. I've tried my best to buy the region 2 releases but this time I'm not wasting my money on what is probably an inferior release to the forthcoming region 1. And they wonder why the programme hasn't done so well over here?--[[User:Thetriangleguy|Thetriangleguy]] 11:07, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
::Though it's not specifically about BSG I think. I've heard that Universal UK also pulls this shit with other shows. No extras is inexcusable this time though. Shame that the US set is still some months off (December/January maybe) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:12, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
:::I think you're right, certainly the "Playback" sets I've come across have been lacking (though I couldn't name one of the top of my head). I think the worst of it is the absence of The Resistance webisodes as we ''still'' haven't had "official" access to them at all.--[[User:Thetriangleguy|Thetriangleguy]] 13:28, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
::::What? Neither deleted scenes nor The Resistance nor podcasts are included? --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 16:19, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
:::::I don't know if this is appropriate here or not but I've just read on a couple of sites that owing to a misprint in today's metro this box set is on sale for only £13.95 at HMV '''TODAY ONLY'''. Of course, that's not from their site and I now don't have time to get to my local branch but there might be some out there who're interested. Read it [http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11506651 here] and [http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22battlestar+galactica%22+%22season+3%22+hmv searched it here]. Must add here that I can't confirm or not if this is true but thought that if by chance someone read this they might be interested (oh and I'm really sorry if this isn't allowed here)--[[User:Thetriangleguy|Thetriangleguy]] 10:28, 3 September 2007 (CDT)
::::::Don't worry about that, many things are allowed on talk pages, as long as you don't use them as forums. I notified [[User:Mercifull]] on his talk page, as he lives in the UK. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:18, 3 September 2007 (CDT)
:::::::Just read [http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615934 here] that you need a copy of today's metro to get the "discount"--[[User:Thetriangleguy|Thetriangleguy]] 11:24, 3 September 2007 (CDT)
::::::::Bugger, already got it lol. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 11:53, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

Has there been any word on when the Region 1 release of S3 is going to happen? battlestargalacticadvd.com still lists info for 2.5 with no mention of 3, and the Sci-Fi site only lists info on Razor. [[User:Boct1584|Boct1584]] 18:42, 15 October 2007 (CDT)
:Sorry. No word. It appears likely that Sci Fi Channel is delaying release to include Razor in the DVD package, or to tie its marketing with the Season 4 debut. That's about all we know that's not rumor. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:33, 15 October 2007 (CDT)

== Many region 2 releases ==

Is it really such a good idea to identify DVD releases by region? There may be many different releases within a single region. My region 2 DVD is much closer in content to the region 1 release (it just lacks the podcasts for some reason) than what is described here. Maybe you only consider pure English DVDs, but since only a few languages have their own battlestar wikis, fans from everywhere else will probably come here for information. And you do have non-english airdates here. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 11:11, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

: If you can supply a data sheet on your region 2 release (such as a website were you may have purchased it from), then we can find out what the story is. Also, a Region 2 DVD box set having most of the Region 1 DVD features is a bit odd, given that all the R2 DVDs are really just "episodes only" with bare-bones features. Consequently, you may have received a bootleg, which is hard to determine with the information you've given... but I want to throw that out as a possibility. So... given that issue, if you have a data sheet or some pictures, that'd be great. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 12:14, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
::That's generalizing. It really depends on the country (and generally speaking, on the distributor). Universal UK doesn't cover all of Europe. For Universal, the UK sets are indeed very bare bones. But while the rest Europe generally gets the UK sets with localized content (or there is only one set for all of Europe to begin with), sometimes other countries are more in line with the R1 sets or somewhere inbetween. Especially when the DVDs are released way later and not at the same time. The problem with this is that it's very hard to cover all the information, and listing too many minor variations leads to a lot of clutter. If someone wants to find out the details of a local set, it's not much of a problem to check out online retailers. To decrease possible confusion, we could rename the page to "Battlestar Galactica - Season Three (UK)" maybe.
::What we could get rid of though is the extra pages for the R4 sets (AUS/NZ), since those are basically identical to the UK sets anyways. Listing those separately always seemed strange to me. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

:::My season 3 DVD set is labeled as Nordic and subtitled in Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Finnish. [http://www.platekompaniet.no/dvdproduct.asp?id=8254681 Here] is the description page (part Norwegian, part English) from the store chain i bought it. It was released (in Norway anyway) about a month ago. The content is as far as I can see basically the same as the American release, apart from the cover, subtitles, copyright notices and the podcasts, although I have not counted all the video blogs to see if they are all there. Now that I did a second comparison, I noticed that the Nordic edition also contains the featurettes from the R1 season 1 set (which makes them odd to watch). While it is true that people can find information about local releases elsewhere, they may think that this article is true for all region 2 releases before checking other places. I am not asking for a page about every single version of the sets. And for the record, the Nordic S1 set is more similar to the US set, while the S2 set appears to be identical to the UK set. No Nordic edition of the miniseries (except as part of S1) or Razor is available. I find it strange that they put time and money into making the sets more different than necessary. [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 14:59, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Battlestar Galactica - Season Three (Region 2 DVD)/Archive 1

2008-06-21T11:11:35Z

Caldumidoan: /* Many region 2 releases */ new section

Talk:Gina Inviere/Archive 1

2007-12-29T23:43:17Z

Caldumidoan:

Source: http://www.syfyportal.com/article.php?id=1912

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 19:45, 12 Jul 2005 (EDT)

== Note ==
"However, if resurrection transmissions travel at light speed, the transmission would have reached the hypothetical second Resurrection Ship (or the Cylon Homeworld) at the same time as they would have detected the nuclear explosion."
:Since they travel at [[FTL|faster than light]] with the "jumps", what would the timing of the Cylon arrival have to do with transmission speed of the download? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:49, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Deleted Scenes ==
Though it is mentioned that she has a storyline in "Downloaded", shouldn't we post what actually happens in that deleted scene? I know in the end it didn't air (for sake of not confusing too much), but it is still considered canon and is an important part of both the Gina and Cylon Baby Story line (as well as D'anna possibly). I think we should add some greater detail about what happens during this scene (especially since we aren't getting more Gina.
-- [[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18 March 2006
: Sauron18, deleted scenes aren't necessarily canonical. Something may later come down the line that contradicts those scenes. However, I would add the pertinent information in a notes section. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:01, 18 March 2006 (CST)
---Well its true that they aren't ALWAYS, canonical, but the fact that recently we've seen deleted scenes shown in the "Previousley on BSG" makes the scene itself canonical. At least her discussion over putting his attention on the polls is important. I do hope the rest of her arch in "Downloaded" does turn out compatible. Its really the same for most scenes, but Gina is dead. She was a good character and any scene we can get is worth mentioning as canonical I would say. I don't know, I guess only time will tell. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18 March 2006
:I don't think they shouldn't be noted as anything other than a trivia item. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 18 March 2006 (CST)

== Suicide and Spectacles ==

I believe the reason for Gina's suicide to be because she knew the other Cylons would eventually detect the explosion and find New Caprica. If she still had a real desire for suicide, she could have very easily gotten herself shot or tossed out an airlock just by showing herself to a Colonial officer, without risking damnation. I think she stayed with the nuke to prevent anyone stumbling on it and disabling it, thereby ruining her one chance to signal her people.

Also, regarding Gina's glasses, she seems to use them only for reading, rather than as a disguise. Shelly Godfrey uses reading glasses, too; it's likely that a little nearsightedness is an intentional flaw in the Six model, like Five's thinning hair and Cavil's advanced age. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:22, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

:RDM explained the reason at the "NY Museum for Television & Radio" panel. She couldn't accept that the Colonials found a safe haven on New Caprica and especially couldn't imagine living down there, probably with Baltar. On Cloud 9 she might have thought that she could undermine the Colonials from within. On New Caprica that would've been gone. Though her means of suicide was very extreme, she probably wanted to hurt them one last time.
:Personally I think the Cylon's discovery of New Caprica works better as pure chance than with any kind of planning.

:Nice point about the glasses :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:29, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::My first thought, when Five explained how they detected the explosion, was that, even a year later, Gina was still screwing Baltar. I don't think she'd have risked burning in Hell for any other reason. Guess I was wrong on that one, though it'd make sense that she could justify her suicide as dying in the line of duty if she took a couple of thousand Colonials with her. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:53, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

== Not "Gina" Within the BSG Universe ==

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that she is only referred to as Gina outside of the BSG universe. Ron Moore calls her that, probably the cast and crew call her that, and we call her that, but no one else. Not Admiral Cain, not Baltar, not...any of her "hug the Cylons" people?...other than that not many people in the Fleet knew she existed. Because of this, '''whenever I see the name "Gina" on any other pages, I change it to "''Pegasus's'' prisoner" or something similar'''. The point is that if a random viewer comes to the Wiki and sees this weird name "Gina" they've never heard in any episode, it will make it quite confusing. I believe that at the top of ''her'' page, the naming convention should be described, and that the fan-name is fine to use on it, but not anywhere else. This would best follow the "in the BSG universe" POV policy, yes? Any thought? - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 11:54, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:Wasnt she Gina in the credits? And besides, isn't what Ron Moore says considered canon? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:04, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::I just checked Pegasus, both Res Ships, and LDYB II. She's not included in any of the credits. Moore's law is correct, she ''is'' Gina, and I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that because she has not been identified within any of the episodes or promotional material as "Gina"...just online and otherwise outside of the universe, using that name on wikipages contradicts the in-universe point of view. She definitely should have a handle for use on the wiki, but the problem is that unlike the names for various Sharons and Six's, the tag "Gina" has no (?) basis within the episodes. Just like Caprica-Six before Downloaded, no name was assigned to her on-screen, even by Baltar. If we were to use the same naming convention on her as other Cylons, we should refer to her as "''Pegasus''-Six" on the wiki instead of "Gina." - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 12:32, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::By [[Zeus, Lord of Kobol|Zeus]], he's got a point. Since the character is a dead-end anyway, adjusting this shouldn't be a real problem; we use descriptive names for internal reference elsewhere. I'll add a reference note that the name itself is internal based on RDM's comments, but, like most of the Sixes, no character has actually said their "human" alias on screen. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:44, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::::The name is well-known and has an official source. I see no problem with continuing to use it. Also, "Pegasus's prisoner" sounds kind of horrible - if you insist on circumlocution, at least Number Six (''Pegasus'' copy) fits our conventions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:19, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::I'd say we just leave it as Gina, it's her official name even if it isn't mentioned on screen, and it's not just a nickname. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:45, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm for keeping it as well. If we had learned the cover name she assumed as ''Pegasus'' crewmember it would probably have been Gina --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:17, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::I agree with keeping it, for the reasons above. I have never seen anyone asking "Gina? Who's that?" on a BBoard. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:11, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Spence, the page reads much more clearly now. Thanks. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 18:43, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

== GINO an allusion to "RINO" and "DINO"? ==

Personally, I'd always thought it was a reference to another GINO, the Godzilla In Name Only of the 1998 American Godzilla film. I've never even heard RINO or DINO used (at least not as acronyms). The note cites the podcast. Does Ron Moore actually say it stems from RINO or DINO, or does he just explain the origin of Gina's name. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 19:18, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
: Go to: [[Podcast:Pegasus#Act 2]]. Basically, he explains that GINO is an acronym for "Galactica in name only", which itself mirrors "DINO" and "RINO".-- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 19:37, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

== Full name ==

In "Razor" her last name is given as N'viere or Enviere...or something (ancient Gemenese for "resurrection"). Does anyone know how to spell that? Also, we usually don't use first names, but we might want to make an exception here. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:42, 4 November 2007 (CST)
:I'd say we wait for closed captions for "Razor". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:47, 4 November 2007 (CST)
:According to [http://www.eonline.com/gossip/kristin/detail/index.jsp?uuid=a2c1c37c-13c7-42e3-9155-f9d1c1f5de25 this article], her last name is spelled "Inviere". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 12:09, 6 November 2007 (CST)
::When is it said that N'viere/Enviere/Inviere is Gemenese for "resurrection" anyway? When Gina and Kendra meet? When Cain introduces Gina to Fisk&Co. ? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:28, 6 November 2007 (CST)
:::During the Gina/Shaw meeting when Shaw comes abaord. And listening to it a bit more, it does really sound like "Inviere" and not "Enviere". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:35, 6 November 2007 (CST)
::::Not the most reliable of sources, but [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/razor/poll/ Sci Fi] says Inviere. Not sure if we should add an accent, though. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 15:24, 21 November 2007 (CST)
:::::In 3 days, Razor will be aired on TV with closed captions. Let's look at those. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:30, 21 November 2007 (CST)
::::::I would wait until the DVD release, since DVD subtitles tend to be more reliable, at least in my experience. And perhaps there are special features that would indicate a preferred spelling, as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:01, 21 November 2007 (CST)
::::::Though if you listen to it, it's pretty clear that it's '''In'''viere. Maybe Invière if you go fancy with apostrophes, but I doubt it. We could easily change the name of this page until we can fully "confirm" it. As said, despite our "no first names policy" it's probably better if we leave her as Gina on all other articles. So a global change wouldn't be needed. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:09, 21 November 2007 (CST)
:::::::I agree with everything that Serenity said in the comment above. I would like to redirect this page to the full name if no one objects. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:35, 25 November 2007 (CST)

The subtitles of the DVD release show the name "Invier" without a trailing "e" --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 13:51, 29 December 2007 (CST)
:Well, to me it sounds French. Going by that "Inivier" would be pronounced differently ("in-wii-eh") and you'd need the "e" to have it sound like in the episode ("in-wii-air"). Of course it's not really French, but we're from Earth and if people read the word they use rules they know. It would look odd for me at least. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)
::The French wouldn't pronounce the first syllable as "in" anyway, it would be pronounced as the first syllable of "entrecôte". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:32, 29 December 2007 (CST)
:::Depends. I know what you mean, but "en-" is a different sound. Most words are pronounced somewhat like it (sort of like "än"), but others literally like "in". [http://french.about.com/library/pronunciation/bl-audiodico-i.htm Check] for example "indigné", "inedit"", "inhalateur" or "inoui" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:48, 29 December 2007 (CST)
::::After watching this discussion for a while, I thought I'd drop in and tell you that according to dictionaries I have found using Google, "înviere" is a romanian word. And yes, it means resurrection. (I do not speak romanian.) [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 17:43, 29 December 2007 (CST)

== Resurrection vs Insurrection ==
I heard resurrection, as did whoever transcribed it. I guess the dvd subtitles will tell the tale for sure in a couple days, but I thought I'd open up a discussion here in case anybody wanted to argue for the other meaning in the interim. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:12, 1 December 2007 (CST)
:I hear "resurrection" in my, um, copy. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:30, 1 December 2007 (CST)
:I hear "insurrection", although Jacobson doesn't really pronounce it clearly. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 10:26, 1 December 2007 (CST)
:I heard "resurrection", which makes sense. We'll find out Tuesday or later, though. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 10:37, 1 December 2007 (CST)
::It seems like the Gemonese, being a generally pretty religious bunch, would be more likely to have a surname using their language that has a religious meaning rather than rebellious. I'm not saying that the Gemonese wouldn't have a word for insurrection, just that I'd expect it to be more like, "Hey, isn't that Sagittaron for 'insurrection'?" But maybe I'm just being Colonist (or is it just racist)? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 1 December 2007 (CST)
:::True. Resurrection makes more sense, especially since Gina later identified the Resurrection Ship (as someone else (don't remember who) pointed out earlier). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:57, 1 December 2007 (CST)
::::Oooh! Good point. And, GINA (Galactica in Name Only, the reimagined series) is something of a resurrection of the original series. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:02, 1 December 2007 (CST)