Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:He That Believeth In Me/Archive 1

2008-04-04T19:03:51Z

Bstone: /* Space Park Damaged etc */

== Citing issue ==

There is a problem with "Go Between, Inc.". Understandably they don't keep the data forever. Searching for "battlestar" now only yields results for "[[Six of One]]". The data for "[[Razor]]" and this episode is gone. So the cite is kinda pointless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:01, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
: Ran into something like this with [[New Caprican loco weed]] ... the Sci-Fi thread where some of the "Also known as" names came from disappeared. Maybe we should note in the cite "info no longer available"? [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 15:04, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
::Better to remove the cite if we can't back it up (and delete the article, if necessary). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:44, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Deleting the article because the cite isn't available anymore, would be an overreaction though. All other BSG sites still list this (even if we have more stringent citation standards). I'd prefer somehow indicating that the site isn't available anymore. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:25, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
: I agree with Serenity, but of course I'm an inclusionist. The data did exist. Perhaps there is a Google cache (or other website cache) of it still available. I notice the date it was retrieved is part of the cite, I think that is a good thing. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 07:21, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::If it's still in the Google cache, we could copy it to Sources:Go Between or something like that. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:52, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
:::Keeping in mind we're not a news source, perhaps it would be better to make a ''screen capture'' of such information to make a permanent source copy on BS Media that cannot expire. The capture as well as the tenuous article sourcing can be removed later once we get more firm sourcing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:15, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::That would be feasible. Unless someone has a better idea, that might be the best. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:24, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Excellent idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

== Update ==

Mark Verheiden reports on his [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2007/08/bsg-update-next.html blog] that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson are writing this episode. I've updated the article accordingly. Also, he reports that officially the production numbers for Razor are 401 and 402, and Season 4, Episode 1 is going to be 403. --[[User:Freevo|Freevo]] 10:51, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:I don't think writers need to be cited, though we can add a footnote if anyone feels the need. I'll add the production number, though seeing this as episode 1 of Season 4 still makes sense. Production numbers can be very confusing. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:52, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
::Currently, [[400]] and [[4.00]] redirect to [[Razor]], and [[401]] and [[4.01]] redirect to [[He That Believeth In Me]], a system that I think is more logical than the production numbers. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:33, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
:::Agreed. We just need to keep production and episode numbers apart. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

== Space Park Damaged etc ==

Er, sorry but wheres the citation to support this spoiler? The only thing i've seen that would represent this, is a fan made trailer circulated around youtube, which featured the Battlestars Titan and Hades...whilst well done, everything barring some leaked footage of starbuck, is done entirely on a home computer by the looks of it...so i say again, where did this spoiler appear from? --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 23:17, 31 January 2008 (CST)
: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkYvXmD94e0&feature=related Here]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:47, 1 February 2008 (CST)
::I dont like the way this season is going...i wasn't particularly enamoured with the whole 'final 5' story either...oh well, i guess they just ran out of steam :( --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 16:01, 9 February 2008 (CST)

==SciFi ep?==
I am currently on the West Coast and it's 12:02pm, yet I cannot find anywhere on the SciFi website where the episode is streaming. It says it is there, but I don't see a link. Any ideas?[[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 19:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Pegasus (episode)/Archive 1

2007-10-08T22:34:17Z

Bstone: /* Why interrogate Sharon */

== General Comments ==

For some reason, I'm really excited about this episode. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:28, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

== Proposed Episode Move ==
[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]], Did you move the "proposed episode" stuff to another article, or just delete it? It should definitely be somewhere here. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:25, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
*I deleted it. It's completely, and I mean ''completely'', irrelevant to this episode. It belongs on the page for the original Living Legend episodes, if at all. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

== Ad Spammers ==
Oh, great. Now it appears that whatever is SPAMing us with ad links got a user name: "Boomer". Although I think it might be possible for a zombie computer to do this, I'm leaning towards the idea that it's an actual person. They must be subjected to live unsedated vivisection. ---Ricimer 25 Aug 2005
: Yeah, this is a real person. But they are likely still controlling another computer to do it. There are a few ways to go about reducing this stuff, but what I really don't get is that some yahoo actually wastes their time spamming a board that has thousands--THOUSANDS--of people who read and edit it deily, eliminating their "work" in seconds. They're wasting their time more than they get on our nerves. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:02, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== New Battlestar Image==
There is a picture of the [[Mercury-class]] Battlestar in the preview after [[Flight of the Phoenix]]. We need a shot of Pegasus here on the page! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
:I noticed they still don't have the trailer up on the SciFi BSG page. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
::It was put up on SciFi approximately 2-3 days before the episode. Mildly annoying. [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:27 EDT, 24 September 2005

== SciFi's ''"Finale"'' Listing ==
Did you notice Pegasus advertised as the Season Finale of Galactica on SciFi channel last night? Did they split the run of 20 into two seasons? [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]
*On closer study, it said "Summer Finale." No idea what that means. [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

::How many times must we re-explain this? A normal season for a show on Scifi (Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, etc) has 20 episodes. What they do is they take the first half of these and run them during summer, then run the second half during February-May. ***They've done this for like 4-5 years now. --->What may confuse you is that their ''advertisements'' in commercials refer to it as a "summer season finale". '''That's just a marketing ploy. One Scifi Channel fans are all used to'''. Season 1 only had 13 episodes so they didn't do that then, but it's going to be in this new format forever. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005

== Mystery Cylon Ship Speculation ==
Any guesses what the mystery Cylon ship is for? [[User:Danaucpe|Danaucpe]]

*My guess is that its a Super Basestar--a ship so massive that it can create Basestars from natural resources of rocky planets. Whatever it is, it will take the combined forces of Pegasus and Galactica to take it down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
*That is, of course, if they can get past the two [[Cylon_Basestar|Basestars]] & various support craft mentioned in [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]. The only reason that the Basestar went down in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Kobol's Last Gleaming]] is through sheer cunning (even part of which may be suspect, seeing as [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] is a [[Humano-Cylon]]). [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:11 EDT, 24 September 2005
*Well, if we are guessing. I'm going to look at the title of the next episode [[Resurrection Ship]] very literally. The [[Humano-Cylon]]'s have asserted that they can't be killed. When they die, their conciousness is downloaded into a new body, hence a resurrection of sorts. I would therefore speculate that this maybe a specialized vessel that helps facilitate these sorts of rebirths. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 16:40, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

I got a itty bitty pic of it [http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4821/bscap2430lq.jpg here] Looks like an oval-ish shape, can't be too sure.
-Blacklight

== Blackbird FTL Capability ==
Any thoughts as to if the [[Blackbird]] is jump capable? [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]]
*That's a good point - it'd have to be if it was going to jump to the location of the Cylon fleet, but we know that normal Vipers aren't jump-capable, and I imagine that a ship equipped with FTL wouldn't be as stealthy or speedy as the Blackbird apparently is...[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:40, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
**I already updated "[[Blackbird]]" to say that it is presumably Jump capable, which makes sense if it's a stealth ship; if it has to be launched from a Battlestar that's not very stealthy because Battlestars are easy to see on DRADIS. It uses different engines which might be capable of limited Jumps. ---Ricimer, 24 Sept, 2005

: I think that the Blackbird may be Jump-capable, too--but until we see it, we shouldn't note it quite yet as fact. The point that Lee's Raptor was on its way to recon it suggests the Cylon fleet is aways off, and of course, if that fleet were in sublight range, we'd have a battle, so either Kara must have FTL, or has so much speed that she can approach and return on sublight within a reasonable time. Also, I strongly believe that FTL drives and sublight drives are NOT the same. Note Tigh's command in the Mini-Series to "spin up FTL drives 1 and 2." Since ''Galactica'' was already running on sublight engines at the time, the FTL drives are another mechanism and may not necessarily be within the same mechanism as the Blackbird's main sublight engines. Since we know that the Raptors DON'T use the same engines as the Blackbird, this gives more weight to the FTL drive being a separate box. Another wait-and-see point. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:04, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

*Also, seeing as we have not physically seen an [[FTL]] Drive, it's hard to say the size of the unit. It would be safe to say that it's proportional to the size of the ship, even in some cases, that multiple ones are used (as in [[Galactica]]'s case). -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 13:24 EDT, 26 September 2005.

*The [[Blackbird]] is jump capable, as seen in [[Resurrection_Ship,_Part_I|Resurrection Ship, Part I]]. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 02:54, 7 January 2006 (EST)

== Pegasus contingent discussion ==
Wasn't the ''Pegasus'' contingent of Vipers going to go on the mission as well? Maybe the ''Pegasus'' was going to jump in behind the moon and launch Vipers after Apollo and Pegasus-CAG scouted out the system. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 13:39, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

*Possibly, but the episode only gave us the fact that the Raptor was doing "photo recon only". Another possibility is that the Vipers would be stationed at a staging point where the Raptor would jump ahead and back to. This would be especially useful if things got hairy. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 16:57 EDT, 26 September 2005

== Summaries vs Speculation ==

We're all anticipating these episodes, of course. It's important to note that rumors, speculation and other unaired hearsay about this episode is not fit for summary entries. The summary is the factual summation of the '''aired content'''. If the episode has yet to air, then it is best to place only the information that could be confirmed from the official Sci-Fi Channel preview (being careful not to intepret it literally since they are always out of context) or official information from [[RDM]] himself. There was an entry of Cain's demise and Adama's rank change in this episode, while we also have similar information in the later ep, [[Resurrection Ship]]. Neither can both be right, so we need to wait until we have verified information, which, if the pattern continues from other eps, only happen when the episode airs. Rumors can be placed here in Talk at any time, but you may want to state your source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:24, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

* Source of [[Spoiler]] [Cain's demise and Adama's rank change to Admiral] podcast http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/details.aspx?castid=5 (9-7-2005) Second half of podcast about (1hr 6mins) into podcast.

* Other podcasts have some interviews with Battlestar cast memebrs i.e (8-10-2005) (9-14-2005) etc

: Thanks. Who made this podcast? Normally we take just RDM's and David Eick's podcasts and videos as official, so cast member comments may or may not be accurate if RDM and Co. have to adjust schedules, episode airings and stuff. Can you elaborate? If you want to add the stuff I took off back in the meantime, please feel free--I'm not the police or anything; I just want to ensure we keep things to a credible-enough source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:35, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

==Philwelch & Ricimer==

On 20:26, 24 September 2005, Philwelch posted the following to the Analysis section:

:*''Aside from Cain herself, the crew of the ''Pegasus'' seems exclusively male. No other female crew members are ever shown, and the behavior of the drunken ''Pegasus'' crewmen isn't what we may expect from men who are accustomed to being around women. This may be a contributing factor to the behavior of the ''Pegasus'' 's crew—if they travelled through space as long as they did, believing they were the remainder of humanity, Cain's power over the crew would have been more than merely military in nature—as the only surviving human woman, Cain would hold absolute sexual power over her crew as well. In addition, the lack of women aboard the ''Pegasus'' and the resulting sexual frustration could have led to the overly regimented, authoritarian, and brutal culture the crew developed, culminating in the senseless, repeated gang rape of the Cylon prisoner [[Gina]].''
:*''It is interesting how the portrayal of Cally's killing Galactica-Boomer in "[[Resistance]]" contrasts with the portrayal of the brutalized Gina and the attempted rape of Boomer.''

On 20:53, 24 September 2005, Ricimer reverted it with the comments:

:''speculation; yes, there are female Pegasus crewmen seen in halls.'' and ''Cally's retirement f G-Boomer doesn't really contrast with the rape scenes here.''

Ricimer, I found those contributions to be interesting and valid, and would appreciate it if, in the future, you would amend them with your objections rather than deleting them outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:I've added a rebuttal of sorts to the former contribution, as I find it (to be frank) preposterous... although I am wary of seeing an [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is|encyclopedic]] page turn into a debate, it rather bothered me to see it there, so I added [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is_not|another view]]. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 18:48, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::We can always refactor the argument and clean it up. I do consider it notable that aside from the Admiral, there are no female crewmembers on Pegasus with speaking roles in this episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:50, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I picked up most of the idea from the Scifi.com forums, although it had occurred to me. If it was unintentional, then why not throw a woman in the background of the Pegasus CIC, or into the ready room? Why write the Pegasus deck gang as a group of crude gang rapists? Listen to the dialogue in that scene—that's *not* how men usually speak in mixed company, and the fact that they do speak that way in mixed company suggests they've forgotten how to act around women. I also find it amazing how many of us aren't quite as shocked at Boomer getting shot to death as we are at Boomer getting pinned down and almost raped by Lieutenant Thorne. The reason for that is probably that killing a Cylon has some sort of purpose, while raping one is just a sick and twisted way to cause pointless suffering. As for Ricimer, his edit warring and irrational vendetta against me must give some meaning to his life but I've learned to pretty much ignore him. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:Please, no ad hominem attacks either. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::Men don't act that way in mixed company? Must be I've been in college too long.. >_> ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 22:44, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:::If the other guys at your college boast about what a girl's face looks like when they gang rape her, I suggest you transfer. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:31, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::::That's not precisely what I meant... you miss my point, although I guess you do so intentionally. I was alluding to the fact that treating women as sexual objects, even in their presence, is not as unknown in our present culture as we might like to believe. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:52, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: As I read it, he got you. Or, anyway, I get you both. I think his point was not about sexual objectification, but about dehumanizing and boasting about rape. That's a bit more than just saying, "Oh. Bro. I'd tap ''that''." You know what I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:10, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

Compromise suggestions:

:The paucity of female crewmen on ''Pegasus'' is interesting, compared to the crew of ''Galactica''. Apart from Admiral Cain herself, only a few female extras can be seen in various scenes, and none have speaking roles in this episode. (The extras in Galactica's ready room, for example, are usually about 50% female; only a couple women are visible in the ready room scenes on ''Pegasus''.) This stands in notable contrast to Ron Moore's egalitarian vision of gender issues in the military, and appears to have been an intentional decision made during production.

:The ''Pegasus'' pilots don't appear to be accustomed to speaking in mixed company, either - they either ignore or fail to understand [[Cally]] and [[Selix]]'s disgust with their talk about gang-raping Gina.

No need to venture into "Mistress Cain" type "sexual domination" scenarios, in my opinion, but the lack of female presence in the lower ranks of ''Pegasus'' is a very distinct change from the rest of the series to date. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:46, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:That's not really what it says, and I think my original point stands—where there's a shortage of women, the natural power of each individual woman within that society is greater. You have to realize that if maybe 1 out of 50 people aboard Pegasus is a woman, and everybody aboard Pegasus lived the months since the holocaust believing they were all that was left of humanity, that's an incredible disparity in numbers. I don't think the sexual power of Cain or anyone else aboard ''Pegasus'' was explicit, but it's a fair guess to say it was there, under the surface. I also think it's a fair guess to say sexual frustration is a contributing factor to the sort of culture that developed aboard ''Pegasus'', particularly the gang rape of Gina. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:24, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Cain vs. Civies ==

I think that the proportion of females among the ''Pegasus'' crew is interesting and all, but I think it's much more interesting that Cain has such a dismissive attitude towards Roslin. Her Deck Chief was (he hints) forceably drafted into service after being rescued from the station just before the ''Pegasus'' lit out. This, paird with Cain's general disregard for Roslin indicate to ''me'' anyway, that she doesn't like civies hanging about. She doesn't want them looking over her shoulder, she doesn't want them asking for parts or asking for defense and the ''certainly'' doesn't want to be held accountable to them. Before she ran across our RTFF, she was Ultimate King for Life of All Humans. I think she doesn't want to give that up. On a more personal note: I hope she gets dragged before a civillian court for some reason and I hope Tom Zarek is on her jury. >;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:40, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

: Spoiler information on the mid-season opener suggests a different fate for Cain, of course. But I'm looking forward to Roslin stepping up to bat in challenging Cain just as Roslin challenged Adama. We know how THAT one went. :) Since Cain's such a person for regs, perhaps Roslin can throw a few of her own since the President ''is'' the Commander-In-Chief (even in the Colonial worlds) and should be able to give an Admiral a direct order--as well as indicating that what Cain is doing is a coup, against regs, and that ''Galactica'' is working on the President's orders. Perhaps Roslin can even order Cain relieved of command. I'm making bets that Roslin resolves this really, really fast, even so much as placing Colonial One in the line of fire to stop both. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:17, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I think the evidence from Kobol's Last Gleaming suggests that the Colonial President doesn't have those sort of broad powers over the military—Apollo is still guilty of mutiny even though he was acting to protect the President from an illegal coup, for instance. There seems to be a suggested separation of powers between the military and civilian governments. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:33, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::: True but conversely you could make the argument for military personnel being subordinate to the president from the mini-series where Roslin sends an order for Adama and the ''Galactica'' to come and assist in rescue operations. Another example would be from the episode [[33]], where Adama is seen actively soliciting Roslin's input regarding the Olympic Carrier, [[You Can't Go Home Again]] where Roslin arrives on ''Galactica'' to unofficially reprimand Adama regarding the reckless nature of his ongoing search for Starbuck. I agree that Roslin and Adama have come to an understanding that military decisions go through him but fleet matters belong to her but if tradition were to hold she is his boss. I suspect that Spencerian is right. Roslin will likely be the only one capable of defusing the situation we saw being Cain and Adama. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 16:34, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest stars ==

I updated the guest stars from the starting credits. The four credits included Forbes, Beckel, Pyper-Ferguson and Spence. I couldn't identify the name of Spence's character, but he is the pilot who brags about having 48 kills. Hope someone has a name for him. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 08:37, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest Star Trivia ==

Trivia note: The Pegasus pilot with the scorecard was played by Sebastian Spence, who starred as Cade Foster on SciFi's First Wave (I was wondering why he looked so familiar). Interestingly, the first Marine to step off Raptor 861 happens to look just like Roger R. Cross, who played Foster's nemeses on First Wave - Joshua and (even more interestingly) ''Cain''. --[[User:Dreampilotomega|Dream Pilot Omega]] 00:03, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Gina killed 800?==
Can someone quote me where in the episode it's stated that Gina killed 800 men? I know this was widely speculated prior to the episode, but this is what I actually heard: 700 Pegasus crewmen died in the initial attack, and Gina killed 7 of Thorne's men. Where does the 800 figure come from? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:06, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

In the extended cut, Cain says that Gina helped a Cylon boarding party gain access to the ship. Apparently they were more successful than on Galactica and might have vented a few compartements into space. Cain also said there were fuel fires on the hangar decks, but that might have been related to the attack with nukes.
In any way that's probably how Gina was uncovered
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:57, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

: I remember hearing what you heard, Peter. I haven't had the time to go back and check, but I was going to and then bring it up. Just thought I'd mention that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:26, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: The 800 figure came from rumors regarding the ep. I've revised the numbers to suit the information revealed in this episode. Perhaps more will be revealed in "[[Resurrection Ship]]". -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:07, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

I think the 800 figure refers to Gina revealing to the other Cylons that the Pegasus survived. The Cylons then launched a follow-up attack on the Pegasus. The 7 figure would refer to the men killed capturing Gina. Granted, I only recall the 700-800 figure from Cain's report on the crew who died at Scorpion Shipyards, so perhaps the numbers are wrong -- [[User: mq59|mq59]] 7:17, 31 December 2005 (EDT)

:There's pretty much no basis for it, unless it was in a cut scene, in which case we won't know for months yet. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:28, 31 December 2005 (EST)

==Analysis==

:*''Apollo's shift to a Raptor pilot seems to have been perceived as a demotion by Starbuck. Yet, the CAG of the ''Pegasus'' was also going on the mission in the Raptor. Is this really a demotion or merely an opportunity for [[Taylor]] to evaluate a new pilot?''
:**''As CAG, it is assumed that Taylor would be a Viper pilot. Is his inclusion in the mission as a Raptor pilot do to the fact that he can only pilot a Raptor or that he feels he can more accurately direct the movements of the Vipers under his command with the advanced sensor gear available on a Raptor?''

I think this is quite clear. Taylor has essentially ordered Apollo to chauffeur him to the Cylon fleet, a duty easily fulfilled by someone of lower rank. As for Taylor himself, it's natural that he'd want a front-row seat on the recon mission.

:*''The behavior of the ''Pegasus'' personnel drinking on ''Galactica'' seemed unprofessional and more than a little rough. Are these actual military personnel or civilian personnel who were drafted into service after the Cylon's attack?''

They say themselves that they haven't had booze since the Cylon attack. They're probably out of practice holding their liquor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:I can see your point on this. However, I would state that if Taylor wanted a front row seat for the mission that he would've been just as likely to pilot a Viper. My take on it, and this is just my take, is that either way is speculative at this point. Taylor could've been trying to knock Apollo down a notch as he'd earlier in the same episode called him 'Daddy's boy.' --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:36, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:To be totally fair, I'm not sure any of my proposed analysis points were such that they required removal. They may not be the correct interpretation of the episode but I don't recall, any correct me if I'm wrong, anything that was displayed that would pre-empt them as being totally incorrect. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:38, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: Before I get to the point: It's hard to determine exactly who said what when you insert your comments inside someone else's, Feldspar. Just so you're aware. Anyway, the point. On the last bit, here, I agree that they were unprofessional and rough, but I would never have come up with the idea of that being because they're civilians ratehr than actual military on my own. There was nothing at all to indicate that and I don't think there's any kind of precedent set that would let us assume that because someone is unprofessional or rough or can't hold their liquor, that they're civilians, rather than military. That seems really out of the blue to me.

:: As for the first bit, if Cmdr. Adama had planned the recon mission (and, for some reason, not used the Blackbird), He'd prolly have had Apollo and Starbuck watching some no-name Raptor team. Piloting a Raptor is not so much a formal demotion as a standing demotion, I think. Vipers are where the glory is. It's like asking a pilot who flies an F-14 every day to fly an AWACS. They're slower, they're not in the middle of the action and they have no guns. As for the CAG from ''Pegasus'', I think he's either babysitting Apollo in order to keep an eye on him, or else maybe he's normally part of a Raptor crew. We don't know how it works, exactly, but I imagine that the CAG doesn't have to fly a Viper. It's whichever pilot is most senior. However, he seems to be doing ECO duty for Apollo, which is not a pilot's job, so... go figure. Probably more will be revealed on this point in January. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:51, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:::Cleaned up my followup, I agree the way I'd put it in there was far from intuitive. My apologies to any confusion this may have caused. My intention was not to pass off any assertions I may have had as someone elses. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:58, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be a Nazi, and I appreciate your contributions. I just considered these too obvious to be noteworthy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:12, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

=="Pegasus": The Director's Cut==

The Director's Cut version of Pegasus which will be coming out in the Season 2.5 DVD set will be radically different from the current episode. Indeed, after much internal pondering, I came to the conclusion that this presented a situation that is really *unprecedented* in the history of this wiki. An alternate version of an episode, with over 25% more material recut into it. My question is, for this new situation, should we create a ''separate'' page for "Pegasus (Director's Cut)", or should we create a (*large*) new subsection on the existing page? (The more I think about it, the more I think that tacking it onto the current page would make it very cluttered). Thoughts? Talk amongst yourselves. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:35, 29 December 2005 (EST)

:Oh, awkward. Tentatively suggesting a separate page, restricted to deal with the differences between the two cuts. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:44, 29 December 2005 (EST)

We could just add the events of the director's cut to the summary and asterisk them to indicate they only occur in the director's cut. (No new section, except for what we have already to indicate that there is a longer director's cut.) After all, the two versions aren't going to contradict, so the director's cut should be treated as the full canon episode anyway. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:50, 31 December 2005 (EST)

:Actually, I think that raises a new question for debate; should the Director's Cut of Pegasus be considered a "full [[canon|canon]] episode"?? In the past, we've always taken deleted scenes with a grain of salt; i.e. later episode ''can'' contradict them, though unless something else presents itself they are often our only source of information for some things that the writers fully intended, but simply lacked the time for. Other times this is not the case. Regardless, a "re-edited" episode changed to ''include'' such scenes has never happened before. Should we consider information in the Director's Cut to be automatically canonical?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:47, 31 December 2005 (EST)

:: I think that, because RDM likes what scenes are re-edited into the episode, he'll probably stick to it. I think adding the scenes in (maybe with something akin to the spoiler template, but without the text hidden) is a good idea, but we should also watch for contradictions. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:07, 31 December 2005 (EST)

:: Isn't Ricimer's suggestion the same way we treat regular episodes? E.g., the number of ships mentioned in the mini-series was canon until Home retconned it. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 12:29, 1 January 2006 (EST)

:::Not exactly. Under the circumstances, anything from an earlier episode contradicted by the Director's Cut wouldn't take precedence. I'm torn on the issue, and my above-stated opinion should not be taken as a vote either way. Maybe a subsection on this page for the Director's Cut would be a better idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:01, 1 January 2006 (EST)

If the director's cut of Pegasus is being officially released as a BSG episode, it's canon. And there's no need for something as bulky as the spoiler template, just use an asterisk. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:24, 1 January 2006 (EST)

==Quality article candidate==
I think this should be the first "quality article" because it's well researched, most debates have been fully developed, it's one of the more informative/pivotal/important pages, and it's one of the most popular. Thoughts? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:00, 5 January 2006 (EST)
:I think it needs some concision badly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:25, 5 January 2006 (EST)
::Like what? Why not change it now?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:30, 5 January 2006 (EST)
:::Actually, it's not as bad as I thought. CalculatinAvatar cleaned it up nicely. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:00, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:::: So the template's there... But, uh... the template doesn't exist. What should such a template look like? I'd create it, if I had a remote idea or could unscramble my brains enough to think well after watching the Rose Bowl just now. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:10, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:::::This page is far from our best. I was just browsing it and noticed many errors. I removed the template for now (it's not functioning right, anyhow) and made some edits that I'm still not satisfied about. I want to review it again--something doesn't strike me right about the page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:54, 5 January 2006 (EST)

== Sharon and Helena ==

''According to an interview with James Callis (Baltar) in issue #197 of TV Zone, "There’s another cut scene where Cain is interviewing Sharon. She hardly says anything but she’s obviously furious that this Cylon has been treated so well. It sickens her, and that’s when Baltar realizes he’s dealing with a psycho."''
:Did Helena know how Sharon had betrayed the other Cyclons several times, and had saved the lives of the Galacticans several times? (helping Helo escape, rescuing Starbuck from the Farm, helping Roslin's crew on Kobol, resending the Cyclon virus back to the Cyclons, ect ect)
:If she didnt know, do you think knowing this would have improved her view on Sharon? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 09:03, 18 January 2006 (EST)
::She did read all the ''Galactica'' logs. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:45, 22 November 2006 (CST)

== Removed "goof" ==

I removed the following paragraph originally placed by the Merovingian under the "goofs" heading:

*After Chief Tyrol and Helo burst in and Lt. Thorne gets killed, the pair are told to put their hands behind their head by Pegasus marines at gunpoint, after which Tyrol and Helo submit and put their hands behind their heads. When the camera cuts between viewpoints after this, Tyrol's hands switch between on and off his head several times.

Merv appears to believe this is an editing error, but if so it's a remarkably obvious one that would not have gone undetected. My interpretation of the scene is that the Chief does in fact change the position of his hands. The change in hand position is not abrupt, and he can easily have moved his hands from one position to the other while we cut away to different shots in the cell. Merv seems to assume that the Chief would keep his hands behind his head if a Marine with a gun told him to—clearly, Merv does not know Chief Tyrol particularly well. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:01, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
:Well I think A) The Marine would really have shot him B) The edit cuts are just ''too'' quick. There's no way Chief would be moving his hands that fast. Check the DVD's. I'll leave it out if everyone still disagrees. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:30, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::Unfortunatly i dont get my DVD's until the 28th august so would appreciate someone else taking a quick look at this scene --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:04, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

I just reviewed the scene. Tyrol has several seconds to move his hands from behind his head to on his knees between shots, and later when it cuts back to him, he moves his hands WHILE THE CAMERA IS ON HIM. As long as his hands are in plain view the Marine would have no reason to shoot him. It's no editing error. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:53, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

Watch the extended cut. It explicitly shows Tyrol moving his hands to his sides or into his lap and back to the head again. In the short version they cut that out.
So yes, it's an editing "error" (though there is enough offscreen time for Tyrol to account for it), but the full version is the definite one
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:04, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

==Unexplained Plot Point==
Having watched both the standard and extended versions, I'm fuzzy on why Gina was on the Pegasus in the first place. If the Cylons expected all 3 battlestars at Scorpia to have the CNP online and launched a massive nuclear barrage to destroy them, why bother having a Cylon agent on board? With only 12 models available, the Cylons couldn't have put an agent on every battlestar in the fleet in case the attack failed (that's ten of each model in the fleet, radically increasing the chances of detection). Maybe they knew Pegasus would have its systems offline and they wanted to capture the ship to get their hands on a state-of-the-art human ship (since we know the Pegasus is much tougher than a basestar)? So they set up Gina on the Pegasus, waited unti it was powering down, then nuked the other two battlestars and then tried to storm the ship. However, the timing went wrong, Gina may have been exposed as a Cylon agent too early, and Pegasus was able to power up and get out of the firing line, although it still had to deal with the Centurions boarding the ship. The only problem with this is that the Cylons could have just used the CNP to order any of the other modern battlestars to shut down to be boarded, or even used the CNP to remotely vent their atmospheres into space.

Is it possible that the two actions were seperate? Gina just had the immense luck to be one of a handful of Cylon agents in the Fleet and just happened to be on Pegasus which escaped. She then set the ship up later to be boarded and taken over? The problem with this is that Caine's statements suggest the two battles happened simultaneously and there is no evidence of the Cylons knowing about Pegasus' existence until it pops up and starts blasting basestars to shreds alongside Galactica. Thoughts? And is this a question worth raising in the ep?--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 20:09, 26 November 2006 (CST)

: I never really raised this question myself, since I've always assumed that Gina was on ''Pegasus'' due to Cain's prominence in the Colonial Fleet. As seen in the extended edition, Adama tells Roslin about Cain and how she's managed to climb the ranks relatively quickly. Thus it comes as no surprise that a Cylon agent may have found their way on ''Pegasus'' due to Cain. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:17, 26 November 2006 (CST)

== Needs updating/cleanup ==

The information regarding the extended cut is all phrased with a "to be" tense. Since this version has been out for sometime, the information, or at least its structure and phrasing, needs to be updated. Anyone care to take a stab at it? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:52, 17 December 2006 (CST)

==Step down to Condition 1==
In the very beginning after they positive establish the identity of the Pegasus, Adama says "step down to condition 1 throughout the fleet". I am confused. Is this a gafe? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 23:40, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
:Mhhh, right; seems to be an error. I never noticed that, but not that you say it. I'll make a note about it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:25, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

==Why interrogate Sharon?==
I just rewatched this episode and something really bugs me. In Pegasus Extended Adm Cain is in Sharon's cell with Baltar. He explains how he didn't use any physical force but was able to get a lot of info from her. Seeing his success Adm Cain asks Baltar to work with their Number 6. Why then does Lt Thorne force his way into Sharon's cell with the Brute Squad and try to get into from her? It seems to me that Adm Cain's first line would be Baltar asking Sharon, since he was so successful. Of course having Lt Thorne's scene with the Brute Squad was a major plot maker and so they kind of ''had'' to write it into the script, but it bugs me and is a little bit intellectually insulting. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 17:34, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Pegasus (episode)/Archive 1

2007-10-08T22:34:02Z

Bstone: /* Step down to Condition 1 */

== General Comments ==

For some reason, I'm really excited about this episode. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:28, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

== Proposed Episode Move ==
[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]], Did you move the "proposed episode" stuff to another article, or just delete it? It should definitely be somewhere here. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:25, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
*I deleted it. It's completely, and I mean ''completely'', irrelevant to this episode. It belongs on the page for the original Living Legend episodes, if at all. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

== Ad Spammers ==
Oh, great. Now it appears that whatever is SPAMing us with ad links got a user name: "Boomer". Although I think it might be possible for a zombie computer to do this, I'm leaning towards the idea that it's an actual person. They must be subjected to live unsedated vivisection. ---Ricimer 25 Aug 2005
: Yeah, this is a real person. But they are likely still controlling another computer to do it. There are a few ways to go about reducing this stuff, but what I really don't get is that some yahoo actually wastes their time spamming a board that has thousands--THOUSANDS--of people who read and edit it deily, eliminating their "work" in seconds. They're wasting their time more than they get on our nerves. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:02, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== New Battlestar Image==
There is a picture of the [[Mercury-class]] Battlestar in the preview after [[Flight of the Phoenix]]. We need a shot of Pegasus here on the page! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
:I noticed they still don't have the trailer up on the SciFi BSG page. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:35, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
::It was put up on SciFi approximately 2-3 days before the episode. Mildly annoying. [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:27 EDT, 24 September 2005

== SciFi's ''"Finale"'' Listing ==
Did you notice Pegasus advertised as the Season Finale of Galactica on SciFi channel last night? Did they split the run of 20 into two seasons? [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]
*On closer study, it said "Summer Finale." No idea what that means. [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

::How many times must we re-explain this? A normal season for a show on Scifi (Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, etc) has 20 episodes. What they do is they take the first half of these and run them during summer, then run the second half during February-May. ***They've done this for like 4-5 years now. --->What may confuse you is that their ''advertisements'' in commercials refer to it as a "summer season finale". '''That's just a marketing ploy. One Scifi Channel fans are all used to'''. Season 1 only had 13 episodes so they didn't do that then, but it's going to be in this new format forever. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005

== Mystery Cylon Ship Speculation ==
Any guesses what the mystery Cylon ship is for? [[User:Danaucpe|Danaucpe]]

*My guess is that its a Super Basestar--a ship so massive that it can create Basestars from natural resources of rocky planets. Whatever it is, it will take the combined forces of Pegasus and Galactica to take it down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
*That is, of course, if they can get past the two [[Cylon_Basestar|Basestars]] & various support craft mentioned in [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]. The only reason that the Basestar went down in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Kobol's Last Gleaming]] is through sheer cunning (even part of which may be suspect, seeing as [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] is a [[Humano-Cylon]]). [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 10:11 EDT, 24 September 2005
*Well, if we are guessing. I'm going to look at the title of the next episode [[Resurrection Ship]] very literally. The [[Humano-Cylon]]'s have asserted that they can't be killed. When they die, their conciousness is downloaded into a new body, hence a resurrection of sorts. I would therefore speculate that this maybe a specialized vessel that helps facilitate these sorts of rebirths. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 16:40, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

I got a itty bitty pic of it [http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4821/bscap2430lq.jpg here] Looks like an oval-ish shape, can't be too sure.
-Blacklight

== Blackbird FTL Capability ==
Any thoughts as to if the [[Blackbird]] is jump capable? [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]]
*That's a good point - it'd have to be if it was going to jump to the location of the Cylon fleet, but we know that normal Vipers aren't jump-capable, and I imagine that a ship equipped with FTL wouldn't be as stealthy or speedy as the Blackbird apparently is...[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:40, 24 September 2005 (EDT)
**I already updated "[[Blackbird]]" to say that it is presumably Jump capable, which makes sense if it's a stealth ship; if it has to be launched from a Battlestar that's not very stealthy because Battlestars are easy to see on DRADIS. It uses different engines which might be capable of limited Jumps. ---Ricimer, 24 Sept, 2005

: I think that the Blackbird may be Jump-capable, too--but until we see it, we shouldn't note it quite yet as fact. The point that Lee's Raptor was on its way to recon it suggests the Cylon fleet is aways off, and of course, if that fleet were in sublight range, we'd have a battle, so either Kara must have FTL, or has so much speed that she can approach and return on sublight within a reasonable time. Also, I strongly believe that FTL drives and sublight drives are NOT the same. Note Tigh's command in the Mini-Series to "spin up FTL drives 1 and 2." Since ''Galactica'' was already running on sublight engines at the time, the FTL drives are another mechanism and may not necessarily be within the same mechanism as the Blackbird's main sublight engines. Since we know that the Raptors DON'T use the same engines as the Blackbird, this gives more weight to the FTL drive being a separate box. Another wait-and-see point. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:04, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

*Also, seeing as we have not physically seen an [[FTL]] Drive, it's hard to say the size of the unit. It would be safe to say that it's proportional to the size of the ship, even in some cases, that multiple ones are used (as in [[Galactica]]'s case). -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 13:24 EDT, 26 September 2005.

*The [[Blackbird]] is jump capable, as seen in [[Resurrection_Ship,_Part_I|Resurrection Ship, Part I]]. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 02:54, 7 January 2006 (EST)

== Pegasus contingent discussion ==
Wasn't the ''Pegasus'' contingent of Vipers going to go on the mission as well? Maybe the ''Pegasus'' was going to jump in behind the moon and launch Vipers after Apollo and Pegasus-CAG scouted out the system. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 13:39, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

*Possibly, but the episode only gave us the fact that the Raptor was doing "photo recon only". Another possibility is that the Vipers would be stationed at a staging point where the Raptor would jump ahead and back to. This would be especially useful if things got hairy. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 16:57 EDT, 26 September 2005

== Summaries vs Speculation ==

We're all anticipating these episodes, of course. It's important to note that rumors, speculation and other unaired hearsay about this episode is not fit for summary entries. The summary is the factual summation of the '''aired content'''. If the episode has yet to air, then it is best to place only the information that could be confirmed from the official Sci-Fi Channel preview (being careful not to intepret it literally since they are always out of context) or official information from [[RDM]] himself. There was an entry of Cain's demise and Adama's rank change in this episode, while we also have similar information in the later ep, [[Resurrection Ship]]. Neither can both be right, so we need to wait until we have verified information, which, if the pattern continues from other eps, only happen when the episode airs. Rumors can be placed here in Talk at any time, but you may want to state your source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:24, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

* Source of [[Spoiler]] [Cain's demise and Adama's rank change to Admiral] podcast http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/details.aspx?castid=5 (9-7-2005) Second half of podcast about (1hr 6mins) into podcast.

* Other podcasts have some interviews with Battlestar cast memebrs i.e (8-10-2005) (9-14-2005) etc

: Thanks. Who made this podcast? Normally we take just RDM's and David Eick's podcasts and videos as official, so cast member comments may or may not be accurate if RDM and Co. have to adjust schedules, episode airings and stuff. Can you elaborate? If you want to add the stuff I took off back in the meantime, please feel free--I'm not the police or anything; I just want to ensure we keep things to a credible-enough source. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:35, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

==Philwelch & Ricimer==

On 20:26, 24 September 2005, Philwelch posted the following to the Analysis section:

:*''Aside from Cain herself, the crew of the ''Pegasus'' seems exclusively male. No other female crew members are ever shown, and the behavior of the drunken ''Pegasus'' crewmen isn't what we may expect from men who are accustomed to being around women. This may be a contributing factor to the behavior of the ''Pegasus'' 's crew—if they travelled through space as long as they did, believing they were the remainder of humanity, Cain's power over the crew would have been more than merely military in nature—as the only surviving human woman, Cain would hold absolute sexual power over her crew as well. In addition, the lack of women aboard the ''Pegasus'' and the resulting sexual frustration could have led to the overly regimented, authoritarian, and brutal culture the crew developed, culminating in the senseless, repeated gang rape of the Cylon prisoner [[Gina]].''
:*''It is interesting how the portrayal of Cally's killing Galactica-Boomer in "[[Resistance]]" contrasts with the portrayal of the brutalized Gina and the attempted rape of Boomer.''

On 20:53, 24 September 2005, Ricimer reverted it with the comments:

:''speculation; yes, there are female Pegasus crewmen seen in halls.'' and ''Cally's retirement f G-Boomer doesn't really contrast with the rape scenes here.''

Ricimer, I found those contributions to be interesting and valid, and would appreciate it if, in the future, you would amend them with your objections rather than deleting them outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:I've added a rebuttal of sorts to the former contribution, as I find it (to be frank) preposterous... although I am wary of seeing an [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is|encyclopedic]] page turn into a debate, it rather bothered me to see it there, so I added [[Battlestar_Wiki:What_Battlestar_Wiki_is_not|another view]]. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 18:48, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::We can always refactor the argument and clean it up. I do consider it notable that aside from the Admiral, there are no female crewmembers on Pegasus with speaking roles in this episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:50, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I picked up most of the idea from the Scifi.com forums, although it had occurred to me. If it was unintentional, then why not throw a woman in the background of the Pegasus CIC, or into the ready room? Why write the Pegasus deck gang as a group of crude gang rapists? Listen to the dialogue in that scene—that's *not* how men usually speak in mixed company, and the fact that they do speak that way in mixed company suggests they've forgotten how to act around women. I also find it amazing how many of us aren't quite as shocked at Boomer getting shot to death as we are at Boomer getting pinned down and almost raped by Lieutenant Thorne. The reason for that is probably that killing a Cylon has some sort of purpose, while raping one is just a sick and twisted way to cause pointless suffering. As for Ricimer, his edit warring and irrational vendetta against me must give some meaning to his life but I've learned to pretty much ignore him. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:00, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:Please, no ad hominem attacks either. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::Men don't act that way in mixed company? Must be I've been in college too long.. >_> ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 22:44, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

:::If the other guys at your college boast about what a girl's face looks like when they gang rape her, I suggest you transfer. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:31, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

::::That's not precisely what I meant... you miss my point, although I guess you do so intentionally. I was alluding to the fact that treating women as sexual objects, even in their presence, is not as unknown in our present culture as we might like to believe. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:52, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: As I read it, he got you. Or, anyway, I get you both. I think his point was not about sexual objectification, but about dehumanizing and boasting about rape. That's a bit more than just saying, "Oh. Bro. I'd tap ''that''." You know what I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:10, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

Compromise suggestions:

:The paucity of female crewmen on ''Pegasus'' is interesting, compared to the crew of ''Galactica''. Apart from Admiral Cain herself, only a few female extras can be seen in various scenes, and none have speaking roles in this episode. (The extras in Galactica's ready room, for example, are usually about 50% female; only a couple women are visible in the ready room scenes on ''Pegasus''.) This stands in notable contrast to Ron Moore's egalitarian vision of gender issues in the military, and appears to have been an intentional decision made during production.

:The ''Pegasus'' pilots don't appear to be accustomed to speaking in mixed company, either - they either ignore or fail to understand [[Cally]] and [[Selix]]'s disgust with their talk about gang-raping Gina.

No need to venture into "Mistress Cain" type "sexual domination" scenarios, in my opinion, but the lack of female presence in the lower ranks of ''Pegasus'' is a very distinct change from the rest of the series to date. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:46, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:That's not really what it says, and I think my original point stands—where there's a shortage of women, the natural power of each individual woman within that society is greater. You have to realize that if maybe 1 out of 50 people aboard Pegasus is a woman, and everybody aboard Pegasus lived the months since the holocaust believing they were all that was left of humanity, that's an incredible disparity in numbers. I don't think the sexual power of Cain or anyone else aboard ''Pegasus'' was explicit, but it's a fair guess to say it was there, under the surface. I also think it's a fair guess to say sexual frustration is a contributing factor to the sort of culture that developed aboard ''Pegasus'', particularly the gang rape of Gina. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:24, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Cain vs. Civies ==

I think that the proportion of females among the ''Pegasus'' crew is interesting and all, but I think it's much more interesting that Cain has such a dismissive attitude towards Roslin. Her Deck Chief was (he hints) forceably drafted into service after being rescued from the station just before the ''Pegasus'' lit out. This, paird with Cain's general disregard for Roslin indicate to ''me'' anyway, that she doesn't like civies hanging about. She doesn't want them looking over her shoulder, she doesn't want them asking for parts or asking for defense and the ''certainly'' doesn't want to be held accountable to them. Before she ran across our RTFF, she was Ultimate King for Life of All Humans. I think she doesn't want to give that up. On a more personal note: I hope she gets dragged before a civillian court for some reason and I hope Tom Zarek is on her jury. >;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:40, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

: Spoiler information on the mid-season opener suggests a different fate for Cain, of course. But I'm looking forward to Roslin stepping up to bat in challenging Cain just as Roslin challenged Adama. We know how THAT one went. :) Since Cain's such a person for regs, perhaps Roslin can throw a few of her own since the President ''is'' the Commander-In-Chief (even in the Colonial worlds) and should be able to give an Admiral a direct order--as well as indicating that what Cain is doing is a coup, against regs, and that ''Galactica'' is working on the President's orders. Perhaps Roslin can even order Cain relieved of command. I'm making bets that Roslin resolves this really, really fast, even so much as placing Colonial One in the line of fire to stop both. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:17, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I think the evidence from Kobol's Last Gleaming suggests that the Colonial President doesn't have those sort of broad powers over the military—Apollo is still guilty of mutiny even though he was acting to protect the President from an illegal coup, for instance. There seems to be a suggested separation of powers between the military and civilian governments. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:33, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::: True but conversely you could make the argument for military personnel being subordinate to the president from the mini-series where Roslin sends an order for Adama and the ''Galactica'' to come and assist in rescue operations. Another example would be from the episode [[33]], where Adama is seen actively soliciting Roslin's input regarding the Olympic Carrier, [[You Can't Go Home Again]] where Roslin arrives on ''Galactica'' to unofficially reprimand Adama regarding the reckless nature of his ongoing search for Starbuck. I agree that Roslin and Adama have come to an understanding that military decisions go through him but fleet matters belong to her but if tradition were to hold she is his boss. I suspect that Spencerian is right. Roslin will likely be the only one capable of defusing the situation we saw being Cain and Adama. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 16:34, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest stars ==

I updated the guest stars from the starting credits. The four credits included Forbes, Beckel, Pyper-Ferguson and Spence. I couldn't identify the name of Spence's character, but he is the pilot who brags about having 48 kills. Hope someone has a name for him. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 08:37, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

== Guest Star Trivia ==

Trivia note: The Pegasus pilot with the scorecard was played by Sebastian Spence, who starred as Cade Foster on SciFi's First Wave (I was wondering why he looked so familiar). Interestingly, the first Marine to step off Raptor 861 happens to look just like Roger R. Cross, who played Foster's nemeses on First Wave - Joshua and (even more interestingly) ''Cain''. --[[User:Dreampilotomega|Dream Pilot Omega]] 00:03, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Gina killed 800?==
Can someone quote me where in the episode it's stated that Gina killed 800 men? I know this was widely speculated prior to the episode, but this is what I actually heard: 700 Pegasus crewmen died in the initial attack, and Gina killed 7 of Thorne's men. Where does the 800 figure come from? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:06, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

In the extended cut, Cain says that Gina helped a Cylon boarding party gain access to the ship. Apparently they were more successful than on Galactica and might have vented a few compartements into space. Cain also said there were fuel fires on the hangar decks, but that might have been related to the attack with nukes.
In any way that's probably how Gina was uncovered
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:57, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

: I remember hearing what you heard, Peter. I haven't had the time to go back and check, but I was going to and then bring it up. Just thought I'd mention that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:26, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: The 800 figure came from rumors regarding the ep. I've revised the numbers to suit the information revealed in this episode. Perhaps more will be revealed in "[[Resurrection Ship]]". -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:07, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

I think the 800 figure refers to Gina revealing to the other Cylons that the Pegasus survived. The Cylons then launched a follow-up attack on the Pegasus. The 7 figure would refer to the men killed capturing Gina. Granted, I only recall the 700-800 figure from Cain's report on the crew who died at Scorpion Shipyards, so perhaps the numbers are wrong -- [[User: mq59|mq59]] 7:17, 31 December 2005 (EDT)

:There's pretty much no basis for it, unless it was in a cut scene, in which case we won't know for months yet. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:28, 31 December 2005 (EST)

==Analysis==

:*''Apollo's shift to a Raptor pilot seems to have been perceived as a demotion by Starbuck. Yet, the CAG of the ''Pegasus'' was also going on the mission in the Raptor. Is this really a demotion or merely an opportunity for [[Taylor]] to evaluate a new pilot?''
:**''As CAG, it is assumed that Taylor would be a Viper pilot. Is his inclusion in the mission as a Raptor pilot do to the fact that he can only pilot a Raptor or that he feels he can more accurately direct the movements of the Vipers under his command with the advanced sensor gear available on a Raptor?''

I think this is quite clear. Taylor has essentially ordered Apollo to chauffeur him to the Cylon fleet, a duty easily fulfilled by someone of lower rank. As for Taylor himself, it's natural that he'd want a front-row seat on the recon mission.

:*''The behavior of the ''Pegasus'' personnel drinking on ''Galactica'' seemed unprofessional and more than a little rough. Are these actual military personnel or civilian personnel who were drafted into service after the Cylon's attack?''

They say themselves that they haven't had booze since the Cylon attack. They're probably out of practice holding their liquor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:I can see your point on this. However, I would state that if Taylor wanted a front row seat for the mission that he would've been just as likely to pilot a Viper. My take on it, and this is just my take, is that either way is speculative at this point. Taylor could've been trying to knock Apollo down a notch as he'd earlier in the same episode called him 'Daddy's boy.' --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:36, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:To be totally fair, I'm not sure any of my proposed analysis points were such that they required removal. They may not be the correct interpretation of the episode but I don't recall, any correct me if I'm wrong, anything that was displayed that would pre-empt them as being totally incorrect. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:38, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: Before I get to the point: It's hard to determine exactly who said what when you insert your comments inside someone else's, Feldspar. Just so you're aware. Anyway, the point. On the last bit, here, I agree that they were unprofessional and rough, but I would never have come up with the idea of that being because they're civilians ratehr than actual military on my own. There was nothing at all to indicate that and I don't think there's any kind of precedent set that would let us assume that because someone is unprofessional or rough or can't hold their liquor, that they're civilians, rather than military. That seems really out of the blue to me.

:: As for the first bit, if Cmdr. Adama had planned the recon mission (and, for some reason, not used the Blackbird), He'd prolly have had Apollo and Starbuck watching some no-name Raptor team. Piloting a Raptor is not so much a formal demotion as a standing demotion, I think. Vipers are where the glory is. It's like asking a pilot who flies an F-14 every day to fly an AWACS. They're slower, they're not in the middle of the action and they have no guns. As for the CAG from ''Pegasus'', I think he's either babysitting Apollo in order to keep an eye on him, or else maybe he's normally part of a Raptor crew. We don't know how it works, exactly, but I imagine that the CAG doesn't have to fly a Viper. It's whichever pilot is most senior. However, he seems to be doing ECO duty for Apollo, which is not a pilot's job, so... go figure. Probably more will be revealed on this point in January. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:51, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:::Cleaned up my followup, I agree the way I'd put it in there was far from intuitive. My apologies to any confusion this may have caused. My intention was not to pass off any assertions I may have had as someone elses. --[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 17:58, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be a Nazi, and I appreciate your contributions. I just considered these too obvious to be noteworthy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:12, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

=="Pegasus": The Director's Cut==

The Director's Cut version of Pegasus which will be coming out in the Season 2.5 DVD set will be radically different from the current episode. Indeed, after much internal pondering, I came to the conclusion that this presented a situation that is really *unprecedented* in the history of this wiki. An alternate version of an episode, with over 25% more material recut into it. My question is, for this new situation, should we create a ''separate'' page for "Pegasus (Director's Cut)", or should we create a (*large*) new subsection on the existing page? (The more I think about it, the more I think that tacking it onto the current page would make it very cluttered). Thoughts? Talk amongst yourselves. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:35, 29 December 2005 (EST)

:Oh, awkward. Tentatively suggesting a separate page, restricted to deal with the differences between the two cuts. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:44, 29 December 2005 (EST)

We could just add the events of the director's cut to the summary and asterisk them to indicate they only occur in the director's cut. (No new section, except for what we have already to indicate that there is a longer director's cut.) After all, the two versions aren't going to contradict, so the director's cut should be treated as the full canon episode anyway. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:50, 31 December 2005 (EST)

:Actually, I think that raises a new question for debate; should the Director's Cut of Pegasus be considered a "full [[canon|canon]] episode"?? In the past, we've always taken deleted scenes with a grain of salt; i.e. later episode ''can'' contradict them, though unless something else presents itself they are often our only source of information for some things that the writers fully intended, but simply lacked the time for. Other times this is not the case. Regardless, a "re-edited" episode changed to ''include'' such scenes has never happened before. Should we consider information in the Director's Cut to be automatically canonical?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:47, 31 December 2005 (EST)

:: I think that, because RDM likes what scenes are re-edited into the episode, he'll probably stick to it. I think adding the scenes in (maybe with something akin to the spoiler template, but without the text hidden) is a good idea, but we should also watch for contradictions. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:07, 31 December 2005 (EST)

:: Isn't Ricimer's suggestion the same way we treat regular episodes? E.g., the number of ships mentioned in the mini-series was canon until Home retconned it. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 12:29, 1 January 2006 (EST)

:::Not exactly. Under the circumstances, anything from an earlier episode contradicted by the Director's Cut wouldn't take precedence. I'm torn on the issue, and my above-stated opinion should not be taken as a vote either way. Maybe a subsection on this page for the Director's Cut would be a better idea. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:01, 1 January 2006 (EST)

If the director's cut of Pegasus is being officially released as a BSG episode, it's canon. And there's no need for something as bulky as the spoiler template, just use an asterisk. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:24, 1 January 2006 (EST)

==Quality article candidate==
I think this should be the first "quality article" because it's well researched, most debates have been fully developed, it's one of the more informative/pivotal/important pages, and it's one of the most popular. Thoughts? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:00, 5 January 2006 (EST)
:I think it needs some concision badly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:25, 5 January 2006 (EST)
::Like what? Why not change it now?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:30, 5 January 2006 (EST)
:::Actually, it's not as bad as I thought. CalculatinAvatar cleaned it up nicely. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:00, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:::: So the template's there... But, uh... the template doesn't exist. What should such a template look like? I'd create it, if I had a remote idea or could unscramble my brains enough to think well after watching the Rose Bowl just now. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:10, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:::::This page is far from our best. I was just browsing it and noticed many errors. I removed the template for now (it's not functioning right, anyhow) and made some edits that I'm still not satisfied about. I want to review it again--something doesn't strike me right about the page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:54, 5 January 2006 (EST)

== Sharon and Helena ==

''According to an interview with James Callis (Baltar) in issue #197 of TV Zone, "There’s another cut scene where Cain is interviewing Sharon. She hardly says anything but she’s obviously furious that this Cylon has been treated so well. It sickens her, and that’s when Baltar realizes he’s dealing with a psycho."''
:Did Helena know how Sharon had betrayed the other Cyclons several times, and had saved the lives of the Galacticans several times? (helping Helo escape, rescuing Starbuck from the Farm, helping Roslin's crew on Kobol, resending the Cyclon virus back to the Cyclons, ect ect)
:If she didnt know, do you think knowing this would have improved her view on Sharon? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 09:03, 18 January 2006 (EST)
::She did read all the ''Galactica'' logs. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:45, 22 November 2006 (CST)

== Removed "goof" ==

I removed the following paragraph originally placed by the Merovingian under the "goofs" heading:

*After Chief Tyrol and Helo burst in and Lt. Thorne gets killed, the pair are told to put their hands behind their head by Pegasus marines at gunpoint, after which Tyrol and Helo submit and put their hands behind their heads. When the camera cuts between viewpoints after this, Tyrol's hands switch between on and off his head several times.

Merv appears to believe this is an editing error, but if so it's a remarkably obvious one that would not have gone undetected. My interpretation of the scene is that the Chief does in fact change the position of his hands. The change in hand position is not abrupt, and he can easily have moved his hands from one position to the other while we cut away to different shots in the cell. Merv seems to assume that the Chief would keep his hands behind his head if a Marine with a gun told him to—clearly, Merv does not know Chief Tyrol particularly well. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:01, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
:Well I think A) The Marine would really have shot him B) The edit cuts are just ''too'' quick. There's no way Chief would be moving his hands that fast. Check the DVD's. I'll leave it out if everyone still disagrees. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:30, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::Unfortunatly i dont get my DVD's until the 28th august so would appreciate someone else taking a quick look at this scene --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:04, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

I just reviewed the scene. Tyrol has several seconds to move his hands from behind his head to on his knees between shots, and later when it cuts back to him, he moves his hands WHILE THE CAMERA IS ON HIM. As long as his hands are in plain view the Marine would have no reason to shoot him. It's no editing error. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:53, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

Watch the extended cut. It explicitly shows Tyrol moving his hands to his sides or into his lap and back to the head again. In the short version they cut that out.
So yes, it's an editing "error" (though there is enough offscreen time for Tyrol to account for it), but the full version is the definite one
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:04, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

==Unexplained Plot Point==
Having watched both the standard and extended versions, I'm fuzzy on why Gina was on the Pegasus in the first place. If the Cylons expected all 3 battlestars at Scorpia to have the CNP online and launched a massive nuclear barrage to destroy them, why bother having a Cylon agent on board? With only 12 models available, the Cylons couldn't have put an agent on every battlestar in the fleet in case the attack failed (that's ten of each model in the fleet, radically increasing the chances of detection). Maybe they knew Pegasus would have its systems offline and they wanted to capture the ship to get their hands on a state-of-the-art human ship (since we know the Pegasus is much tougher than a basestar)? So they set up Gina on the Pegasus, waited unti it was powering down, then nuked the other two battlestars and then tried to storm the ship. However, the timing went wrong, Gina may have been exposed as a Cylon agent too early, and Pegasus was able to power up and get out of the firing line, although it still had to deal with the Centurions boarding the ship. The only problem with this is that the Cylons could have just used the CNP to order any of the other modern battlestars to shut down to be boarded, or even used the CNP to remotely vent their atmospheres into space.

Is it possible that the two actions were seperate? Gina just had the immense luck to be one of a handful of Cylon agents in the Fleet and just happened to be on Pegasus which escaped. She then set the ship up later to be boarded and taken over? The problem with this is that Caine's statements suggest the two battles happened simultaneously and there is no evidence of the Cylons knowing about Pegasus' existence until it pops up and starts blasting basestars to shreds alongside Galactica. Thoughts? And is this a question worth raising in the ep?--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 20:09, 26 November 2006 (CST)

: I never really raised this question myself, since I've always assumed that Gina was on ''Pegasus'' due to Cain's prominence in the Colonial Fleet. As seen in the extended edition, Adama tells Roslin about Cain and how she's managed to climb the ranks relatively quickly. Thus it comes as no surprise that a Cylon agent may have found their way on ''Pegasus'' due to Cain. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:17, 26 November 2006 (CST)

== Needs updating/cleanup ==

The information regarding the extended cut is all phrased with a "to be" tense. Since this version has been out for sometime, the information, or at least its structure and phrasing, needs to be updated. Anyone care to take a stab at it? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:52, 17 December 2006 (CST)

==Step down to Condition 1==
In the very beginning after they positive establish the identity of the Pegasus, Adama says "step down to condition 1 throughout the fleet". I am confused. Is this a gafe? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 23:40, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
:Mhhh, right; seems to be an error. I never noticed that, but not that you say it. I'll make a note about it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:25, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

==Why interrogate Sharon==
I just rewatched this episode and something really bugs me. In Pegasus Extended Adm Cain is in Sharon's cell with Baltar. He explains how he didn't use any physical force but was able to get a lot of info from her. Seeing his success Adm Cain asks Baltar to work with their Number 6. Why then does Lt Thorne force his way into Sharon's cell with the Brute Squad and try to get into from her? It seems to me that Adm Cain's first line would be Baltar asking Sharon, since he was so successful. Of course having Lt Thorne's scene with the Brute Squad was a major plot maker and so they kind of ''had'' to write it into the script, but it bugs me and is a little bit intellectually insulting. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 17:34, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

Quotes talk:10 6

2007-10-06T23:46:58Z

Bstone: New page: Changed from Lt to Capt as Helo was promoted to Capt when he took over as XO of Galactica. ~~~~

Changed from Lt to Capt as Helo was promoted to Capt when he took over as XO of Galactica. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 18:46, 6 October 2007 (CDT)

Quotes:10 6

2007-10-06T23:46:20Z

Bstone:

'''Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]''': All decks ''finally'' report [[Action Stations|condition one]], sir. Should we launch the alert fighters? 
'''Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]]''': Begin [[FTL|jump prep]]. We're leaving. But we'll be [[Season 3 (2006-07)|back]]. Start your prep. 

--''[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]''

Talk:Pegasus (episode)/Archive 1

2007-07-16T04:40:17Z

Bstone: /* Needs updating/cleanup */

Tory Foster

2007-03-27T06:32:19Z

Bstone:

{{Character Data
|photo= Tory CaptainsHand.JPG
|age=
|colony= Caprica (likely)
|birthname= Tory Foster
|callsign=
|seen= The Captain's Hand
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Presidential aide to [[Laura Roslin]]
|rank=
|actor= [[Rekha Sharma]]
|cylon= y
|name=
|Tory Foster is a Cylon
}}

'''Tory Foster''' becomes President [[Laura Roslin]]'s new aide and campaign manager following the death of [[Billy Keikeya]]. Prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], she was precinct captain for the [[Federalist Party]] in [[Delphi]] for five years, where she became proficient at taking polls ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

When President Roslin makes the decision to keep the new-born [[Hera|Cylon/human]] baby as far away from [[Sharon Agathon]] and the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] as possible, Tory creates a list of hand picked civilians who could be trusted with the baby. In the end a civilian named [[Maya]] is selected to take custody of the child. Tory makes it very clear that the child's mother's identity remain a secret ([[Downloaded]]).

Tory later conspires with [[Saul Tigh]] and [[Anastasia Dualla]] to rig the Presidential election in Roslin's favor. The ruse is uncovered and suppressed by Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] and Lieutenant [[Gaeta]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

During the occupation of [[New Caprica]], Foster aides Roslin in compiling a list of humans who are in collusion with the Cylons. She is tasked, and fails, with ensuring the safe transport of Maya and [[Hera|Hera/Isis]] off the planet. Maya is killed trying to escape New Caprica with the child. Hera survives but is found by the Cylons ("[[Occupation]]", "[[Exodus, Part I]] & [[Exodus, Part II|II]]").

Foster suffers an injury to one her arms when a [[Raptor]] accidentally crashes into ''Colonial One'' after its main and [[RCS]] thrusters fail due to using impure [[tylium]] fuel ([[Dirty Hands]]).

Before and during the trial of ex-president [[Gaius Baltar]], she is tasked with helping Roslin assemble a tribunal to bring charges against Baltar, as well as establish security arrangements ("[[The Woman King]]", "[[The Son Also Rises]]", "[[Crossroads, Part I]]") demonstrates an unwillingness to aid [[Romo Lampkin]]'s defense case through initially stonewalling Lampkin's attempts to gain access to records on ''Colonial One'' ([[The Son Also Rises]]).

Some time after the death of [[Kara Thrace]] ([[Maelstrom]]), Foster began a sexual relationship with Thrace's widowed husband, [[Samuel Anders]], which is not viewed well by Roslin.<ref>{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Crossroads, Part I|act=4|id=|timestamp=|totalrunning=}}</ref>

At the beginning of Baltar's trial, Foster begins to show signs of stress, possibly originating from a strange noise which she hears as the Fleet moves towards the [[Ionian nebula]]. Her lack of sleep and stress levels results in a damaging outburst to the press corps during Roslin's press conference, a press conference that covers the reemergence of her cancer. Roslin confronts Foster after this, threatening to replace her if she did not get back on her game ([[Crossroads, Part I]]).

== References ==

<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=[[Billy Keikeya]]|title=Presidential aide|after=(''Unknown, eventually'' ''[[Felix Gaeta]]'')}}
{{succession box|before=[[Felix Gaeta]]|title=Presidential aide|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Foster, Tory]]
[[Category:Characters|Foster, Tory]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Foster, Tory]]
[[Category:RDM|Foster, Tory]]

Tory Foster

2007-03-27T06:27:05Z

Bstone:

{{Character Data
|photo= Tory CaptainsHand.JPG
|age=
|colony= Caprica (likely)
|birthname= Tory Foster
|callsign=
|seen= The Captain's Hand
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Presidential aide to [[Laura Roslin]]
|rank=
|actor= [[Rekha Sharma]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Tory Foster''' becomes President [[Laura Roslin]]'s new aide and campaign manager following the death of [[Billy Keikeya]]. Prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], she was precinct captain for the [[Federalist Party]] in [[Delphi]] for five years, where she became proficient at taking polls ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

When President Roslin makes the decision to keep the new-born [[Hera|Cylon/human]] baby as far away from [[Sharon Agathon]] and the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] as possible, Tory creates a list of hand picked civilians who could be trusted with the baby. In the end a civilian named [[Maya]] is selected to take custody of the child. Tory makes it very clear that the child's mother's identity remain a secret ([[Downloaded]]).

Tory later conspires with [[Saul Tigh]] and [[Anastasia Dualla]] to rig the Presidential election in Roslin's favor. The ruse is uncovered and suppressed by Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] and Lieutenant [[Gaeta]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

During the occupation of [[New Caprica]], Foster aides Roslin in compiling a list of humans who are in collusion with the Cylons. She is tasked, and fails, with ensuring the safe transport of Maya and [[Hera|Hera/Isis]] off the planet. Maya is killed trying to escape New Caprica with the child. Hera survives but is found by the Cylons ("[[Occupation]]", "[[Exodus, Part I]] & [[Exodus, Part II|II]]").

Foster suffers an injury to one her arms when a [[Raptor]] accidentally crashes into ''Colonial One'' after its main and [[RCS]] thrusters fail due to using impure [[tylium]] fuel ([[Dirty Hands]]).

Before and during the trial of ex-president [[Gaius Baltar]], she is tasked with helping Roslin assemble a tribunal to bring charges against Baltar, as well as establish security arrangements ("[[The Woman King]]", "[[The Son Also Rises]]", "[[Crossroads, Part I]]") demonstrates an unwillingness to aid [[Romo Lampkin]]'s defense case through initially stonewalling Lampkin's attempts to gain access to records on ''Colonial One'' ([[The Son Also Rises]]).

Some time after the death of [[Kara Thrace]] ([[Maelstrom]]), Foster began a sexual relationship with Thrace's widowed husband, [[Samuel Anders]], which is not viewed well by Roslin.<ref>{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Crossroads, Part I|act=4|id=|timestamp=|totalrunning=}}</ref>

At the beginning of Baltar's trial, Foster begins to show signs of stress, possibly originating from a strange noise which she hears as the Fleet moves towards the [[Ionian nebula]]. Her lack of sleep and stress levels results in a damaging outburst to the press corps during Roslin's press conference, a press conference that covers the reemergence of her cancer. Roslin confronts Foster after this, threatening to replace her if she did not get back on her game ([[Crossroads, Part I]]).

== References ==

<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=[[Billy Keikeya]]|title=Presidential aide|after=(''Unknown, eventually'' ''[[Felix Gaeta]]'')}}
{{succession box|before=[[Felix Gaeta]]|title=Presidential aide|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Foster, Tory]]
[[Category:Characters|Foster, Tory]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Foster, Tory]]
[[Category:RDM|Foster, Tory]]

Tory Foster is a Cylon

Talk:Crossroads, Part II/Archive1

2007-03-19T17:04:33Z

Bstone: /* Predictions */

== Promo Pics ==
Are [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000aaqbh here]. Hard believe that's the last for Season 3. However, they may release a few more for this episode. At least there's the 2-hr movie between seasons. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:03, 27 February 2007 (CST)

That promo pic of Six, Baltar, and Hera appears to be shot in the "Final Five" room. Anyone else notice this? [[User:Paulmooreparks|Paulmooreparks]] 19:57, 28 February 2007 (CST)

: Yes, indeed I did. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:02, 28 February 2007 (CST)

::Baltar's been having visions of Six and Hera in the opera house since season 1, so it's not necessarily connected to the Final Five. Since this episode will reveal 1 or 4 of the Final Five depending on which interview you go by, there's a pretty good chance that it relates to them as well. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:16, 28 February 2007 (CST)

:::Am I completely off-base in thinking that that's Virtual Baltar alongside Virtual Six? Because the other photos of that episode show the "real" Baltar still quite disheveled with a thick beard while that Baltar is clean-shaven, not unlike Caprica's Baltar. Didn't Ron Moore say something about the two alter-egos being key figures in the last episodes of the season? --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 04:50, 3 March 2007 (CST)

::::Not really "off base", in fact I think that's the most popular theory in general. So unless we're all off base.....which is admitedly possible :P --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 07:37, 3 March 2007 (CST)

:::::If they are able to interact with eachother it would have significant implications regarding their nature. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:50, 7 March 2007 (CST)

::::::The virtual Baltar normally wears the unique pinstripe suit from the Miniseries, which I don't see here. I do believe this is a visualization and that is Virtual Six, for the Opera House doesn't exist. If the two alter-egos do somehow directly interact, some Serious Shit will ensure, but damned if I can really glean what. This is as big of a season stumper as season 2's cliffhanger. And, no, Kara Thrace will NOT be one of the Five. But it may be, in my guess, one of these three, although they don't realize it: Dualla, Tigh, or Gaeta. I still hold exception to the fact that what Three saw may be the five priests of the Temple of Five, who just so happen to have incarnations in the current timeline. (Note the monkey that exited my anus and is waving at you). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:44, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

==Predictions==
Well, it's early, and I don't care to step on Slander's toes, but I have forseen an event in Crossroads, Part II. The top 5 American Idol contestants cameo as... '''THE FINAL FIVE!''' --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:06, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
*I'd like to make a motion that all Predictions in Talk pages be deleted as they are assinine and serve no other purpose than to promote the person making the prediction. Predictions should be in Forums and chatrooms or discussion groups, not here.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 12:29, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
**Dude... they're friggin' jokes. No need to be so uptight. You're reminding me of Merv. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:07, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
*** Motion denied. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 12:04, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Crossroads, Part I/Archive 1

2007-03-13T13:09:02Z

Bstone: /* Promo Pics */

==Promo Pics==
Are [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000a9064 here]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:54, 27 February 2007 (CST)
: Tried to go there, but I get the following: Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /drewcypher/gallery/000a9064 on this server. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 08:09, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Maelstrom/Archive 1

2007-02-26T20:53:35Z

Bstone: /* Bonus Scene */

==Official Source required==

Working episode titles are always shaky, even from official sources. The [[BW:OC|Official Communiques]] articles lists those confirmed by an official source, but even these are subject to change. Gateworld is not an official source and can be more wrong than the official preliminary title. Best to wait on this or verify the source. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:39, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

So far they've been correct for Season 3, and usually ahead of most other sources by several days. Waiting won't hurt [[User:Hmoul|Seattle Cylon]] 14:15, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
*I posed this title to Bradley Thompson and he chose not to confirm the title as a "working title" where he usually confirms "working titles". There may be a reason, may not be, but for our purposes, this should be considered rumor and innuendo and should be deleted.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:02, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::{{vd}} as well. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:06, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

==Promo Pics==
Are up [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000a7qzs here]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:28, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:I'd use the one with her mother as preview pic here. Aside from the ones with Leoben, the others are pretty generic. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:35, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::I posted the one with leoben before I read this. I liked the starbuck's destiny angle, but will change if the consensus dictates it. This gives me another ideas. Promo pic gallery in the article until it airs. I am really looking at ways to use more images since we are discussing a TV show. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:14, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:::That one's fine too. As for the gallery, sure. However, you should probably resize the pictures a bit before uploading them as they are very large --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:23, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::::If you think so, I will move this discussion to the Quorum? where discussion can start before writing up a Think tank proposal. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:34, 1 February 2007 (CST)

==Bonus Scene==
Maybe I missed something last week (I didn't go watch the ENTIRE bonus scene online), but when I went tonight to check out the Dirty Hands bonus scene, there was a bonus scene up from Maelstrom. Did anyone else see this? This shouldn't have been up yet, right? At any rate I got a sneak peak...even if it was a deleted scene :) --[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 00:42, 26 February 2007 (CST)

== Kara and Cylon ==

I had a brilliant thought the other night. Kara gets killed in this episode and wakes up in a ress chamber on Caprica. First words out of her mouth, "Oh sh!t". That could explain the pic of her back on Caprica with Leoben. I bet she is a Cylon. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 14:53, 26 February 2007 (CST)

ECO

2007-02-20T05:23:24Z

Bstone: /* ECOs */

The acronym '''ECO''' stands for '''Electronic Countermeasures Officer'''.

The ECO is responsible for the [[ECM|electronic countermeasures]] on a [[Raptor]] ([[Miniseries]], "[[33]]"). ECOs also operate computer equipment, including scanning and detection equipment ("[[Water]]," "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]").

ECOs are pilots who also are certified to fly a Raptor if the primary pilot is incapacitated or unavailable. [[Crashdown]] pilots his Raptor when his pilot [[Karma]] is killed ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), and [[Racetrack]] pilots a Raptor on several occasions ([[Fragged]], [[Final Cut]]).

As [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']] faces chronic pilot and ship shortages, ECOs like Racetrack pull 'double-duty' as both Raptor or [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilots ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

== ECOs ==

* [[Karl Agathon|Capt. Karl C. "Helo" Agathon]], [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''Galactica''
* [[Crashdown]], battlestar ''Galactica''
* [[Margaret Edmondson|Lt. Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]], battlestar ''Galactica''
* [[Lyla Ellway|Lyla "Shark" Ellway]], [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''

==See Also==
*[[List of terms (RDM)|List of terms in the Re-imagined Series]]

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category: Terminology]]
[[Category: Terminology (RDM)]]

Talk:The Woman King/Archive 1

2007-02-08T19:40:27Z

Bstone:

==Programming Note==
As many in the United States know, the [http://www.superbowl.com/ Super Bowl] American Football championship game is February 4. For most in our country, that game is a holiday-like event with as much national pride and rivalries as the international World Cup championship games. Since any TV programming that plays alongside the Super Bowl won't get many viewers, it appears that the SciFi Channel chose to pre-empt ''Battlestar'' to the following week. Just to let you know before you search for a torrent of the next episode.

I, for one, will certainly be watching, as I'm a resident of Indinaapolis, home of the Colts and one of the teams in the game. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:48, 30 January 2007 (CST)

: Da Bears will win. End of line. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 07:16, 31 January 2007 (CST)
::Get the to see the Super bowl over the pond too :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:45, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:: DAAAAAAAAAAA BEARS. I'll miss my weekly Galactica fix, however :( --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 10:53, 2 February 2007 (CST)
:::Yeah, RIGHT. How'd that game work out for ya, BB? :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:30, 6 February 2007 (CST)
::::I had no particular feelings either way, except that my dad did a couple of Saturday Night Live skits about the Bears and my grandpa's a Bears fan. I heartily congratulate Indianapolis on their win :D --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:12, 6 February 2007 (CST)

== Wild and Crazy speculation!!!!!!!! ==
OK, OK, OK, OK! I know somebody is going to blow my last addition out of the water about the GateWorld crap but I just create a link to a page that has revealed some now confirmed data even though there is other unconfirmed data in the article. I wanted to create the opportunity for the reader to make an assessment for him/herself. I know, I know, I know the policies on this stuff, but I'm testing the waters.... --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:04, 23 September 2006 (AST)

== Title ==

"Woman King" is the title of a song and E.P. album by Iron & Wine. Maybe someone on the writing staff is a fan? --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 06:37, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

== Concurrent with "Taking a Break?" ==

Is there any information or thought as to whether this episode takes place at the same time as the previous episode, "[[Taking a Break from All Your Worries]]?" It would make some sense, as this episode is rumored to involve Hera under the care of Dr. Robert, and Athena was in a rush to get a sick Hera to a doctor at the end of "[[Rapture]]." It would also explain where Helo and Sharon are during "Taking a Break," since they weren't featured there at all, with the seemingly urgent Hera storyline oddly dropped.

Of course, the idea of "[[Black Market]]" and "[[Scar]]" being concurrent came up as the second season aired, but that was disproved. This might just be a random idea. I guess we'll find out for sure in two weeks. --[[User:Linaf|Linaf]] 20:12, 29 January 2007 (CST)
:It might also explain why [[Robert|Doctor Robert]] is treating Hera instead of Cottle as he is busy with the interrogation drugs on Baltar. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 11:31, 2 February 2007 (CST)
::Keep in mind though, that Cottle is not on Sharon's "A" list right about now either. Probably, since he played quite a big roll in faking Hera's death and hiding the baby away...Maybe Helo and Sharon wanted to seek...a second opinion. Unfortunatly, if that's the case looks like he won't be a good choice!--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 09:54, 6 February 2007 (CST)

== My Predictions ==

I've looked deep into my crystal ball this week, ''Galactica'' fans, and what I've seen will blow your minds and require a change of pants. I'll give you all a moment or two to go grab a spare pair of trousers. Got 'em? Okay, here we go:
*Helo beats the sweet bejeezus out of a frail old man who's just trying to help people through euthanasia.
*Athena, being a murderous Cylon deep inside, gets turned on by the violence. She and Helo conceive their second child.
*The trial of Gaius Baltar begins with thunderous applause.
*Tom Zarek!
*We see the first shots of the Cylon homeworld and learn how the Cylons are dealing with the loss of the Number Three model. Some models aren't taking it so well.
*We also learn why the Cylon fleets are spread so thin: Attacks from a mysterious external enemy have drawn the majority of the Cylons' attention for the last year and a half.
*Starbuck and Hot Dog take the Heavy Raider back to the Colonies to gather supplies. The Heavy Raider is able to make the trip in three jumps each way. When there, they're attacked by Cylon models they've never seen before and are brought to meet their leader: Galvatron!
*Dude. ''Tom'' motherfrakking ''ZAREK''.
*More guest appearances by the SuicideGirls. Quinne Suicide even has a line.
*Tigh whines about stuff and gets promoted. Gaeta whines about stuff and gets thrown in the brig. Apollo whines about stuff and gets promoted ''and'' thrown in the brig.
*Special guest appearances by Dr. Jack Kevorkian and Harlan Ellison.
*Did I mention Tom Zarek?
Should be a hum-dinger of a night. As always, you can place your bets with Bruzer or on my User Talk page. I'll see you all on Monday. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:05, 7 February 2007 (CST)
:Yup, bets can be placed on my talk page. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:48, 7 February 2007 (CST)
::Suicide girls? They're unboxing the [[Number Three|Threes]] already? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:20, 7 February 2007 (CST)
:::LIke the predictions, especially on Tigh, Gaeta and Apollo. But what about Dee, Cottle, Caprica and Anders?--[[User: CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 19.23, 8 February 2007
::::I hate to step on Slander's territory, but here's what I say -
::::*Caprica seduces Roslin and gets her to release Baltar because Caprica's become addicted to 3-ways.
::::*Dee and Cottle are having a secret love affair that Cottle is hiding from his other partner, Anders.
:::::--[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:31, 7 February 2007 (CST)
::::::Cottle/Anders OTP. Looks like we got our crystal balls from the same wish-granting Gypsy, BB, because mine told me the exact same things. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:45, 8 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::OTP? And also, you got your crystal ball from [[Dodona Selloi]] too? Cool! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 11:50, 8 February 2007 (CST)
::::::::As defined by Wikipedia, "One True Pairing -- usually used to denote a fanatical devotion to one pairing in a fandom, excluding all others; a fandom abbreviation referring to one's favorite fictional couple." It's a term from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_(fandom) shipping] community, which I use here for parodic effect, as I loathe fanfiction and everything having to do with it. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 12:41, 8 February 2007 (CST)

== podcast already up ==
The podcast is already up. Isn't that silly?
http://media.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/314/bsg_ep314_FULL.mp3 [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 13:40, 8 February 2007 (CST)

"Jolly" Anders

2007-02-05T13:36:56Z

Bstone:

==Biography==
Lt. '''"Jolly" Anders''' is the third in command of ''Galactica's'' air group under Major [[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]], ''Galactica's'' [[CAG]].

Anders assumes second in command duties from [[Kara Thrace|Lt. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] after she is thrown into the brig for striking a [[Saul Tigh|higher ranking officer]].

Anders accompanies Spencer and ''Galactica's'' last remaining [[Viper (RDM)|Viper Mark VII]] squadron on their way back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] when ''Galactica'' alerts them to a [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack on their home worlds]].

Two [[Raider]]s are encountered by the 20 Vipers. Before Jolly or the rest of the squadron fire a single shot, their [[Computers#Avionics|fighters' computers]] are commanded to shut down by the Raiders, who have [[Command Navigation Program|created a backdoor in their Viper's software]] thanks to a [[Number Six|Cylon agent on Caprica]]. The helpless Vipers begin to drift, out of control. Major Spencer calls out to Jolly in vain over his dead communications system in hopes of having Anders assume command when Spencer realizes that all of his pilots are drifting as well.

The Raiders easily destroy Anders's Viper and the rest of his squadron ([[Miniseries]]).

Jolly is later remembered in a post-operation toast given by [[Kara Thrace|Kara]] after the death of the ace [[Cylon Raider]], [[Scar (Raider)|Scar]]. ([[Scar]]).

== Notes ==
*Anders's call sign, Jolly, is an homage to the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] character, [[Jolly (TOS)|Jolly]].
*His surname, "Anders", is [[Samuel Anders|reused by another character]] later in the series.

[[Category:A to Z|Anders, "Jolly"]]
[[Category:Characters|Anders, "Jolly"]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Anders, "Jolly"]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only|Anders, "Jolly"]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)|Anders, "Jolly"]]
[[Category:RDM|Anders, "Jolly"]]

Talk:Ragnar Anchorage/Archive 1

2007-02-01T19:55:46Z

Bstone:

Just as an aside, the hauntingly beautiful music track that plays just as Galactica enters the storm and concludes as hard dock is complete is called "The Storm and the Dead." It and other interesting tracks from the Mini-Series are available from its official soundtrack, which is available from Amazon.com. (I scored mine a local SF convention because ''I'm a big geek.'' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:43, 30 November 2005 (EST)

== More than munitions? ==

Looking at the size of the anchorage compared to the Galactica, I wonder if there wasn't more to this station than just storing bullets. Could it serve as a fall-back fleet HQ? Did it have repair facilities? Medical equipment? It surely looks HUGE and has many sections to it. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 13:55, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Talk:The Woman King/Archive 1

2007-01-31T13:16:50Z

Bstone: /* Programming Note */

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2006-12-27T03:57:39Z

Bstone: /* Playing with the date? */

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like a good plotline actually. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
::::No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --[[User:starryniteynite|starryniteynite]]

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

== Duelling Sharons ==

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

:It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our ''Galactica'' nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using ''us'' as a source! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes ''aren't'' Class-D? :P --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Image==
Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

So... is someone with the means actually going to replace the image with one relevant to this episode? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 21:12, 20 December 2006 (CST)

:Silly joking aside, I agree that the picture should be replaced. I'd do it, but I don't have a good screencap --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:34, 23 December 2006 (CST)

:I happen to have the episode, so, it's done. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:57, 23 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Starbuck survive?==
Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" '''hoping''' the Cylons would shoot her down.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Too good to be true==
When we Baltar's voice over ''Galactica'''s speaker, the closed caption actually identifies him as "Cylon over speaker". I know that's not really meant to be taken as anything, but with all the speculation, it seems like a shining goof, or maybe even someone taking a good piss out of the [[Baltar as Cylon speculation|whole thing]]. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Nuking the Planet==

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Or perhaps the missiles can be aborted, until they reach a critical flight time. Could make for a ''very'' tense moment or two. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:Is it just me or didn't he actually give the order to fire. He said "release of nuclear weapons is now authorized". That might sound strange, but I took that to be a preliminary order to firing. For example that now even Tigh would be able to launch them on his say --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:03, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::No, you're correct on that; essentially all they were doing was opening the "barn doors". I was discussing the hypotheticals of the missiles, if they should be launched in the next ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:33, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:::Aye, we're just jumping the gun a little, and discussing possibles ways out of it, if Adama does indeed decide to launch :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 02:17, 21 December 2006 (CST)

::::Am I the only one who thinks he might be targeting the nukes for the Raiders on their way to the surface? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:53, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== WTF moment ==

I was on the [[Karl Agathon]] page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across [[:Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|this old picture]]. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding '''unsigned''' comment was added by {{User|Alcibiades}}.
: Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting ''really really really'' looks like the art in the temple. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::It's a painting in her room and part of the column in the temple. :) --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)
: So Starbuck is an artist. She paints The Eye of Jupiter. Is it a known symbol or is this the first time anyone else has seen it? If it's not well-known, what does that say about Starbuck? Doesn't it make her prescient? Maybe her true calling is as an oracle. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:29, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I'm with Catrope here. If I'm remembering my "Valley Of Darkness" podcast correctly, Tahmoh and Katee painted the apartment themselves, without any direction from Ron or the rest of the show crew. It's quite possible that someone noticed that particular pattern and decided to make it significant. And, hey, maybe she ''is'' an Oracle who just hasn't realized that she has the gift. Give the girl some chamalla and see what she can do. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Starbuck found a spiritual calling to fill the enormous gaps in her soul that she tries to fill with sex, booze, speed, duty, and violence. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:33, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:A friend of mine told me he though the painting and the decoration looked a lot like a star or an explosion, and then brought up the word "supernova". Could this picture be some sort of reference to the star going supernova? (I must admit I'm contradicting myself here, because I said earlier I thought the similarity to be some sort of an inside joke. Of course it's possible that Sackhoff&Penikett accidentally painted something that looked like an explosion, and that's why the writers chose that particular painting.) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:36, 22 December 2006 (CST)

== 18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage" ==

If 18 people were lost from '''The Passage''' episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto ''Galactica'' (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and ''Galactica'' would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

: Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight ==

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "[[Cylon Agent]]" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Names of marines==
Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is [[Fischer]], but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

::OK, we know that it's [[Fischer]], [[Griggs]], [[Varrick]], [[Henick]] and [[Ditko]]. Since after she says "Henick and Ditko" the camera centers first on the black guy and then on the bald guy, can we assume that the first one is Henick and the latter one is Ditko, and the one in a hat is Griggs? It's conjectural, but looks reasonable to me and it would be nice to add pictures to their articles. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 14:46, 22 December 2006 (CST)

== Location of the Eye? ==

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)
::Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: The [[Sacred Scrolls]] have so far contained information about [[Laura Roslin]] being sick, [[Sharon Agathon]] helping them to find the [[Tomb of Athena]], and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: Note the shaft of light streaming across the central pillar in the final scenes of the episode. Perhaps something will be revealed when it becomes centered upon the prominent symbol seen there. --[[User:Spidey3|Spidey3]] 12:29, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::That was the way my mind was working. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:39, 18 December 2006 (CST)
I believe that the Sky Opening Up will be the explosion of the nuclear weaponry activating or destroying something which will then reveal the Eye. --[[User:Teal Thanatos|Teal Thanatos]]

== Boomer in the brig? ==

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:Besides, the least thing they need on ''Galactica'' right now would be Boomer to break out of the brig, throw on a uniform and have a "Guess the Sharon" contest. Aside from that, I expect that kind of trite plotwork I just mentioned from lesser sci-fi series, not this one.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Summary ==

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five ==

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. {{unsigned|Tylonius}}

:To ''Battlestar's'' credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

::Time may not be an issue. Remember the Colonial Scriptures are full of prophecies, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that the Temple of Five could've been constructed for something before it happened, for the purpose of making it happen in due time.

::The Five could do whatever releated them to the temple much like Roslin is directly related to finding the tomb Athena, even though she lived thousands of years after everything else was set.

::This is all speculation, of course, but oh well....--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:59, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:::The Final Five are directly connected to the Temple of Five: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2006/12/one_of_the_cent.html -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:16, 20 December 2006 (CST)

::::“Essentially the Temple of the Five is directly connected to the five Cylons we have not seen.” - RDM
::::I've been thinking about the ambiguous ''sins'' the [[Hybrid]] mentions, that appear to be in regards to the Five. My working theory is that the five priests who served "The One Who Cannot Be..." and the Five Cylon Models who served the Cylon God both committed the ''sin'' of Rebellion, and that both dieties they rebelled against are one and the same. I also (big leap now), think that Model One is among the Rebel Five. Being rebel ''Angels of God'' (as Virtual-Six refers to herself), that would make One the RDM-equivalent to TOS-Lucifer, now wouldn't it? Chief and first of the (from the cylon perspective) "fallen" angels (as opposed to speculation that One ''is'' the Cylon God) --[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 02:16, 23 December 2006 (CST)

== Human Nicknames ==
I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points).
Cropped text:
*This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
**It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]] and [[Simon]]. In ''[[The Passage]]'', D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".
Thanks. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:
*This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. [[Caprica-Six]]).
*Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of [[Cavil]]'s, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s and [[Simon]]'s numbers. In "[[Torn]]", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "[[The Passage]]" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.
:Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged".
I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new number though. We've heard plenty of statements like "We Threes think we can't take the risk.", ideal statements to introduce new numbers with. Of course these numbers aren't a big deal, but die-hard fans tend to like to know these details. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::True. Though the more detail the introduce, the more chances they have to get it wrong. Even with the few model numbers we have revealed RDM sometimes has [[Podcast:The_Passage#Act_1|difficulty keeping them straight]], confusing the Eight's (Sharons) with the Three's (D'annas). Either way, we'll be here, documenting. I sometimes wonder if we're (the die-hard detail documenters) aren't his worst nightmares (if we even bothers thinking about us). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:52, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::::I always thought it was a nice nod to buckaroo banzai where all the villains had the same first name. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 22:05, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::I believe it would make sense that there is a plan with rolling out the remaining agent numbers. For example, whether or not "One" is one of the missing Five has a great deal of bearing on the development of the cylon narrative, and so would be kept quiet until the episode revealing that fact. If He/She is one of the missing Five, but "Two" is not, then Two's identity ([[Cavil]], [[Leoben]], or [[Simon]]) also has a great deal of bearing on the narrative. Cavil has been shown using some leverage on Three. He's got my money for being Two. I think One is with the missing Five.--[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 22:58, 25 December 2006 (CST)

== Question on article ==

*When did [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] go over to the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons']] way of thinking? In this episode she clearly doesn't seem to think of herself as human anymore like she did in "[[Downloaded]]."
:I had assumed that by LDYB, II that the Cylons had gone over to Boomer and Caprica-Six's way of thinking, hence their (C-six and Boomer) sudden rise to power as well as the sudden Cylon cease-fire. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:24, 19 December 2006 (CST)

== Hera ==

I cannot believe that Adm. Adama has apparently no idea what happened to Hera. He was involved in this discussion in [[Downloaded]]. He should knew that Hera and her foster mother moved to [[New Caprica]]. I am very surprised that he became so angry after Roslin told him that she kept the child in her school. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 17:21, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:Adama and Roslin only agreed in "[[Downloaded]]" that Sharon cannot be allowesd raise the baby. Maybe he assumed/was told that Hera was killed by Cottle? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:34, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::That they concluded at the discussion that the child should be killed would fit with this episode events and Baltars look at the end of "Downloaded" when being chided by his internal six. However that option was mentioned onscreen and the entire tone of the conversation at that point makes it seem somewhat unlikely that this would been the final decision. Given that Baltar was never in on the adoption-plot (he apparently didn't know Hera was alive on New Caprica) and we now know Adama didn't know about it either the discussion outcome must have been either to kill the child or to postpone the decision (with Heras apparent death solving the problem). I'm quite willing to buy that Adama believed the child had died a natural death, given that complication in a hybrid between man and machine were to exspected. But I have troubles with Roslin doing it all behind Adamas back (why did she have to do that?) and Adama not making a decision whatever immediately (in Downloaded). [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:40, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Recent Summary Reorganization Problems ==

I'm normally OK about reorganization of a summary, but the recent one handled by SgtPayne creates more work and confusion. Links previously added are missing, conventions once there are missing, and the narrative flow of the summary is extremely confusing. Normally we can break up events by location (events on Galactica, basestars, planets) because they are mostly separate events that don't directly connect, but this episode has both Cylons and Colonial events occurring in response to each other and in "real-time." I am ''this close'' to rolling back the summary and adding edits made afterwards to restore both narrative flow and conventions, but I wanted comments from others first. As an admin I would just roll it back because of all the wikilinking and convention breakage, but it's more than that. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:36, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:This is one that I might suggest we do "Act" reporting summary. So the events are intertwined. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:56, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::I believe that's exactly what the summary contained before that infamous edit: a chronological report of the events in this episode. Since everything and everyone interacts with eachother and is at the same place, that would be a logical choice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:03, 20 December 2006 (CST) (I hate edit conflicts)
:I haven't checked it for style and links, but I agree that the summary should be chronological. Splitting up the locations is fine if they aren't related. But as you said, here they are heavily interwined and dependent on each other --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:'''Revert.''' It looked better the way it was. The new split makes for a very confusing read. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I have reverted the article and restored relevant edits made after that reorganization. One persistant edit that I keep changing involves the "shaft of light" in the Temple as Tyrol is inspecting the symbology in the Temple. That "shaft" is Tyrol's flashlight beam. While that direct light ''might'' do something unexpected as it approaches the central target-shaped symbol, it's not coming from some mystic source within the structure. I've clarified this in the article. Contributors are always free to edit it, but its fairly clear, so analysis should be used to interpret what it might do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:48, 20 December 2006 (CST)

In light of the recent reversion, I should drop my two cents in regarding the "reorganization". When I first read the article, I felt that it was too "narrative" rather than "summary", which is what the section suggests. The consolidation was an attempt to make the information as concise as possible. I also attempted to keep as many reference links as necessary. In regards to the location split, this was done in line with previous articles, which had definitive locations. My apologies if it confused readers, but it should be said that summaries are just that, and should not be play-by-play accounts of the episode. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 12:18, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:The location split you introduced is good practice when there are multiple storylines that do not interfere with eachother. A nice example of that is "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". In most episodes this is the case (end s1-begin s2 even had 3 or 4 separate storylines), but in this particular episode the three locations affect eachother so greatly that the split you introduced makes for extemely confusing reading: a bullet point in the basestar story references events told in the Galactica part, and viceverse. (Let's not even start about the Algae Planet part). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:45, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::You bring up a good point. In trying to put it together, there were some areas where I wasn't sure where to put it. On the whole, I was looking to clean it up a bit. Trying to read it line-for-line blurs out after a while... --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 14:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::I've broken up the summary into acts. It seems to solve both problems. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:24, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::aye. nice job. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:34, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I concur. It definitely cleans up the look of the page. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 22:55, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Missile Tubes==
Where exactly are they and shouldnt that be an article in "Galactica Areas" Snorkel378

== More Nested Analysis ==
*The [[tylium]] planned for the mines could only come from their single Raptor. This supports the [[Substances in the Re-imagined Series#The Tylium Question|high energy yield of the fuel]] that, at the same time, would not sacrifice the Raptor's flight ability.
**It's also possible that the tylium used was fuel stored at the camp to power its generators and/or refuel the Raptors and other ships involved in the harvest.
Please resolve these into either one or two single-level bullets, then re-add to the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:56, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:Done. I also updated the nuke count in this section. Admiral Adama orders launch tubes four through ten loaded, which means he's prepared seven nuclear warheads, not six. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 09:05, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::Nicely done. Thanks! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:51, 22 December 2006 (CST)

== Playing with the date? ==

In Kobol's Last Gleaming, they stated the ruins on Kobol were 2000 years old, "around the time of the exodus of the 13 tribes". When they found the beacon at the Lion's Head Nebula, they said it was 3000 years old, and now they're saying the Temple of Five is at least 4000 years old. Each time they give a new date a thousand years earlier, it seems to still coincide with the exodus date of the thirteenth tribe.

Am I the only one noticing this inconsistancy?

: My memory may be off, but I was under the impression that the 13th tribe left Kobol long before the other twelve. So... maybe the 13th tribe left 4k years ago, and the rest left 2k years later. Fanwankery? Spotty memory on my part? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:08, 25 December 2006 (CST)

::Both, sort of. The date in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" refers to all thirteen tribes collectively. In "A Measure of Salvation" and "The Eye of Jupiter", they refer to the thirteenth tribe alone.
::'''Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I'''
:::Roslin: How old are the ruins?
:::Billy: We won't know for sure until they send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years.
:::Elosha: That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol
::'''A Measure of Salvation'''
:::Adama: According to Cottle, the virus was an exact match to one reported over 3,000 years ago. Right around the time that the Thirteenth Colony left Kobol.
::'''The Eye of Jupiter'''
:::Tyrol: Our initial radiocarbon dating suggests that the temple's at least 4,000 years old, which lines up with the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe.
::--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:16, 26 December 2006 (CST)

Nut we Don't know how long it took to get everyone from earth off of kobol because it would take awhile to get huge civilizations away from a planet.Snorkel378

== Dichotomy of Signs to Earth==

I find it rather interesting that the first real sign to Earth that they found was a satellite/probe (first found by the Cylons). This would represent the high tech sign-post to Earth. The second sign to Earth is this hidden "Temple of Five" which is plainly a spiritual sign. Anyone else thing this is very interesting? I wonder what was on the satellite. Too bad RDM didn't allow them to examine it. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 21:57, 26 December 2006 (CST)

Hera Agathon

2006-12-19T08:28:04Z

Bstone:

:''For information on the Lord of Kobol of the same name, see [[Hera, Lord of Kobol]].''

{{Character Data
|photo= Baby_Hera.jpg
|age= born [[Timeline (RDM) #Downloaded|9 months after]] the Cylon Attack ([[Downloaded]])
|colony=
|birthname= Hera; briefly named Isis
|servicen=
|callsign=
|seen= Downloaded
|death=
|parents= [[Sharon Agathon]] (biological mother) [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]] (biological father) [[Maya]] (adoptive mother)
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= "Lead the next generation of God's children"
|rank=
|actor=
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Hera''' is the first sucessful Human/Cylon Hybrid, the culmination of the Cylons' experiments to achieve viable procreation.

Her parents are the human [[Karl Agathon|Capt. Karl "Helo" Agathon]] of ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and [[Sharon Agathon]] who took part in the Cylon experiment to set up Helo into falling in love with and impregnating her.

This experiment is necessary because the forced cross-breeding experiments in the Cylon [[Farms]] met with complete failure. The Cylons theorized that the key element to procreation that was missing was love (an important element to Cylons, because they believe that "[[God]] is love").

As a result, Hera is currently the only successful progeny of a humanoid Cylon, and therefore literally considered a "miracle of God" by the Cylons.

Hera is conceived [[Timeline (RDM)|24 days after the Cylon attack]] on Caprica, in a night of passion after Helo "rescues" Caprica-Valerii from what was really a Cylon deception to test his love. Caprica-Valerii is ordered to convince Helo to stay in "hiding" on Caprica, but instead Valerii falls in love with Helo herself. Valerii begins helping him to escape the Cylons, apparently switching her allegiance over to the Colonials.

[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] (who arrived earlier on Caprica to retrieve the [[Arrow of Apollo]]) leaves with Caprica-Valerii and Helo in a captured [[Heavy Raider]]. Caprica-Valerii is incarcerated in ''Galactica's'' [[brig]] for the next few months, as her pregnancy continued to advance.

Hera is born by emergency surgery one month premature. [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] arranges with Dr. [[Cottle]] to fake Hera's death, then secretly gives the child to a woman named [[Maya]] under the guise that the child is the daughter of a ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' officer, who must give her up for political and religious reasons. The subterfuge, Roslin presumes, is necessary to keep Hera safe from humanoid Cylons that may be hiding in the Fleet ([[Downloaded]]). Maya, unaware of the her new child's past, names the girl Isis ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

Hera/Isis is presumed to be the child [[Gaius Baltar]] is told he will one day raise by and with [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations#Baltar's Internal Six|his vision of Number Six]]. Baltar received this information in a vision he had while trapped on the planet Kobol. However, unaware of what President Roslin has done, Baltar, like the rest of the people who knew about her, believes Hera/Isis to be dead.

When the Fleet settles on [[New Caprica]] under the rule of newly-elected President Baltar, Roslin begins teaching at a settlement elementary school with Maya. Maya keeps Hera/Isis in a cradle identical to the one Baltar saw in his vision.

As the plan to escape Cylon-occupied New Caprica is about to be executed, Roslin hides Maya and Hera/Isis in the [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance's]] underground bunker for protection. The former president tasks resistance leader [[Samuel Anders]] and two bodyguards to protect Maya and Hera/Isis at all costs ([[Exodus, Part I]]). During their attempted escape, Maya is killed and Hera/Isis, is found next to the body of her adoptive mother by President Baltar, [[Caprica Six]], and [[D'anna Biers]] ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==Notes==
*In a deleted subplot from "[[Downloaded]]", [[Gina]] and [[D'anna Biers]] scheme to kidnap Hera at [[Gaius Baltar]]'s request. Gina expresses disgust at Hera being named for a human god. When D'anna asks Gina what they should call the baby, Gina suggests "Thirteen."
[[Category:A to Z|Hera]]
[[Category:Characters|Hera]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Hera]]
[[Category:Cylons|Hera]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Hera]]
[[Category:RDM|Hera]]

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2006-12-17T17:45:50Z

Bstone: /* Location of the Eye? */

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2006-12-17T07:49:31Z

Bstone: /* Location of the Eye? */

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-15T07:50:58Z

Bstone: /* Another Battlestar? */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-15T07:24:53Z

Bstone:

Talk:Exodus, Part II/Archive 1

2006-10-22T07:47:50Z

Bstone: /* Where does this question go? */

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0610/01/index.htm
Click on this link and scroll down to see scenes from the Exodus episodes. My favorite is the last one at the bottom which shows Zarek and Roslin plsticuffed together. Hopefully they'll start to get along soon. --ltcrashdown October 3rd, 2006

== My Prediction ==

And it shouldn't be a big surprise, but I have to state it for the record:

Battlestar ''Pegasus'' makes its last appearance today. I think it will be used to ram a basestar or two to save ''Galactica'', which puts up a good fight but is getting outmatched.
My prediction doesn't come from anything but from the gut, but it should be interesting if it comes true. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:53, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'm hoping that it doesnt get destroyed, seeing as that would kill Lee Adama and far too many other people - if this happened, people would switch off. I'm predicting that it'll save the day at the last second. If you think about it, Lee Adama was ordered to stay behind with the fleet and continue the search for earth. I'm betting that he does the usual thing of going against orders, jumping back anyway at the last second and launches a nuke or two at a basestar.

--[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 17:37, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Since when does people's opinions become spoiler text? :P --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:05, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

:Spoiler policy is suspended on talk, but sometimes people get bummed to read them here, so it's a courtesy. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:58, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

YES! Nailed it! Nailed it! Hail to the king, baby! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:47, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

: Hallowed are the Ori... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 00:06, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:Wow, Spence. Calling the second one was impressive. --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 09:55, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

== Is this a clue? ==

When Starbuck gets back to Galactica with the kid, and the supposed mother sees it, and latches on, she says either "Gods bless you" or "GOD bless you", and after watching it about 5 times on my TiVo, I'm leaning towards GOD, singular, and perhaps a clue that this lady is not who she claims. I mean, if that really is a hybrid, then it would be valuable enough to pull such a move just to get it out of Colonial hands.

Also, if it weren't for horrible interior design, I'd rather Galactica had been boned, and they all just moved into Pegasus and renamed it Galactia-A or something. If it weren't for the lame bridge, it'd be a much better ship.

: The assumption is reasonable -- however, I believe it is extremely likely that the woman is who she claims to be. Also, given the horrible success rate at Cylon farms, it is likely that Kacey was indeed a ruse to get Thrace to love Conoy. Once Conoy had Thrace's love, their love would lead to the next step. As for the "God" versus "Gods" thing.... also, it's been indicated that the Colonials have varying faiths, and some don't necessarily believe in the Sacred Scrolls, Pythia and all that jazz. Also, it wouldn't be ''Battlestar Galactica'' without ''Galactica''... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 00:01, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::Not to mention that you have to give Tyrol ''something'' to do on the flightline. Why, if he were on the ''Pegasus'', unable to go spastic about not holding the Vipers together with bubblegum and baling wire, and just could wish another one up from the manufacturing plants aboard the newer ship, who knows how many kids he and Cally might end up with by the time they get to Earth? ^_^--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 01:05, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Tyrol now has a lot more Vipers and Raptors to look after. Poor Cally.....--[[User:Barry|Barry]] 07:44, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:I thought your observation was interesting so I pulled up the episode again and watched that part. Kasey's new mother distinctly says "gods" with a hard, unmistakable "s". [[User:Silsor|Silsor]] 00:24, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:Plus, why would they introduce a new Cylon so casually? The recent Cylons (Biers, Simon, Cavil) each had complex introductions. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 01:17, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

== Screencaps Posted ==

[[:md:User:Shane/gallery|Here]]. Enjoy. I surely did. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 03:51, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:You misspelt "atmosphere" in a couple of them --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:44, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:I like your screengrabs! Holy cow -- what a great episode; especially the part where Galactica jumps in low and provides that "firing solution" for the team. There was even a cool easter egg -- Did anyone else notice the "Pan Am" logo on the bottom of one of the ships leaving New Caprica? --[[User:Scooper|Scooper]] 10:28, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::"Easter egg?" Sounds like another case of the Craftsman tool lockers. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 11:54, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::That's probably the [[Pan Galactic]] ship, its been in the fleet all the way back to the Miniseries. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:36, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::The logo is indeed nearly the same, but the name seems to be different. It has more than 5 letters. Maybe "Pan Gal" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:05, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

== Where does this question go? ==

Earlier today, I posted a question in the Questions section about why the DRADIS displays on both battlestars were inexplicably clear of the nebula's interference, but it was deleted. Is there a more appropriate place for it? --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 21:00, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

:Hi, BR. That's a valid question. Before the Cylon fleet discovered New Caprica, Dualla was commenting how hard it was to see anything in the nebula, and they were in orbit. Now, in this episode, both sides appeared to be using DRADIS without issue from the interference. Me senses a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|continuity error]]. You can re-add the question here (note my winded explanation) or add to the continuities article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:40, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

: A bit annoying to have a question posted and suddenly deleted. Might I suggest deleting other editor's questions and comments be expressly prohibited? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 02:47, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Precipice/Archive 1

2006-10-10T08:11:03Z

Bstone: /* Casey */

: For earlier discussions in this talk page prior to October 3, 2006, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Precipice&oldid=81257 click here].

__TOC__

==Production Number==
What's up with "Episode 1.5"? Shouldn't this count as episode 2 of the season, even if it's being aired as a 2-hour premiere? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:53, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:Thats what ive always said, but for some reason all the episode numbering is messed up. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:35, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:The writers officially count "Occupation / Precipice" as one episode. Bradley Thompson said that there will probably be only one intro. So "Precipice" still belongs to episode 1 (hence 1.5) and Season 3 only has 19 episodes on paper --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
::However, in terms of budgeting and production, "Occupation/Precipice" was 3.01 and 3.02, while "Exodus, Part I" and "Exodus, Part II" were both 3.03. Clearly our numbering system shouldn't reflect the vagaries of production, or else both parts of "Resurrection Ship" would be episodes 2.11 and Season 2 would only have 19 episodes.
::At the same time, we should ask - were "Occupation" and "Precipice" truly edited into a single episode, or is SciFi simply airing two episodes back to back on premiere night? In the event of the former, there should be a single entry for both "Occupation" and "Precipice". In the latter, they should retain separate entries, and each should have their own episode number (and none of this "1.5" business). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:34, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:::FWIW, [http://www.scifi.com/schedulebot/index.php3?date=6-OCT-2006&feed_req SciFi's schedule] has the premiere listed as a single two-hour block under the title "The Occupation/Precipice". I'd lay good money on them splitting it into two episodes for syndication, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:37, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Well, you could wait until the episodes have aired and edit it then. But I asked Mr. Thompson about just this, and he said "I have not seen the transition yet, but I believe it will be one episode. Which is why Episode 19 is the season 3 finale" in BW:OC. Good point about syndication though. Maybe the place where the break would be is cleary visible. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:43, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Having given it considerable thoght, I think the best reason not to merge them into a single article is that I don't want to be citing ([[The Occupation/Precipice]]) as a single unit for the rest of time. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 06:15, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::One thing I think people aren't getting that that there ARE 20 episodes. "Occuprice" is episode 1, Exodus part 1 is episode 2, so on, totaling up to twenty. (I think) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::Whoops, scratch my previous comment that was here, I was wrong. For what it's worth, my DirecTV guide has it as a single two hour airing. With a repeat right after. Methinks that'll be good if there's a podcast for em.--[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::There are twenty ''hours'', and (if Occupation/Precipice is counted as one episode) nineteen episodes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:Why not refer to Occupation/Precipice as "Episode 1," the following episode as "Episode 3," place a link to "Episode 1" on the Precipice page, and whenever Precipice is referred to as a separate episode, call it "Episode 2." Put a brief summary of Precipice in the Episode 2 article, put anything specific to Episode 2 in that article (if, say, there is a single Episode 2 podcast), and refer to the combined page for everything else. [[User:Joe n bloe|Joe n bloe]] 12:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

===Suggestion===
Here's a thought: Let's follow SciFi's lead with the podcasts. If they put up podcasts for two four-act shows, we'll keep it as two episodes; if they put up a single podcast for an eight-act show, we'll merge them into a single Occupation/Precipice article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:38, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:Ya know, so far this is the best suggestion in this whole conversation because I somehow get the feeling that they at scifi are themselves not yet certain about what to call these 2 opening 5 act pieces,but by the time the show starts on Friday, I'm sure they will have it figured out so let's not do their job for them and try to guess what they will do. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 16:08, 4 October 2006 (AST)
::I suggest we wait till they air, and see if there's an end between the two. For what it's worth, my DirecTV onscreen guide is showing one two hour block with a repeat right after it. That'll be nice for the podcasts, watch the episode, then right after watch it with commentary. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:21, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
Moore refers to the show as "Occupation/Precipice" in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/10/#a001414 latest blog entry]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:04, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:RDM often will lead off each podcast with (outside the I'm RDM, etc.) "and this is episode X of season Y, 'Z'". That may provide some insight as well if he continues that practice. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 06:53, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/season03/ SciFi.com] gives the two-hour premiere production numbers 301 and 302. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:36, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:Using the second content warning after the ''bombing'' as the start of ''Precipice''. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 06:43, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::RDM states this on the podcast too. Baltar/Roslin cell scene is the first of ''Precipice''. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:07, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Exactly what I was going to say but noticed my comment didnt post (edit conflict) hehe --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 13:04, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::Agree. Two ''different'' episodes. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

==Pic==
What's that gold thing on Helo's lapel/uniform? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:52, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:Here is a better pic [[:Image:Greys_Mini.JPG]]. I believe that it is a symbol for the twelve colonies. But Kat doesn't have it?? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:11, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:It's a version of the Colonial seal with a smaller Phoenix in the center: http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=26&pos=81 --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:17, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
::If we don't have a pic here, we need it. :) --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:18, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:::The best option is probably to make a high resolution screencap from DVD (if a suitable closeup is available). Episodes with dress grays: Miniseries, Act of Contrition, Home II --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:25, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
In the episode itself, Kat's Grays does have the lapel pin. I was specifically looking for it in the scene, it must be a mistake in this picture. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:12, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:Yeah, made sure I checked that too. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:14, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

==Casey==
I'd like to start a page for Kara's daughter, but I'm not really sure how to spell her name. Casey? Kasey? If it is Casey, we'll need to disambiguate, as there's already a pilot named that. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 13:47, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:I don't suppose anybody was watching with captions on? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:22, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::The credits have it has "Kacey" in the credits. Also, spelled that way the RDM Chicago Tribune article. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 14:51, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::I had the captions on, and it was "Kacey". --[[User:ThesposAZ|ThesposAZ]] 02:37, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::I am a captions type of guy also. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:39, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
Hey on the Answers thing for Kara's Duaghter says 16 months. That can't be right because it had to come to termm which would take nine months so two months after Baltar becomes the presisdent and the episode is 16 months subtract 2 months and she would be 14 months old and not 16 months old.- Best Snorkel378
:Incorrect. Baltar was elected c. Day 280. The one-year jump brought us to c. Day 660 by the end of LDYB2. Occupation began on the 134th day of the Cylon occupation, bringing us to c. Day 794 - roughly 27 months after the holocaust. Kara's ovary was removed during The Farm, which took place roughly 2 months after the holocaust. Add nine months for gestation and we get 27-(2+9) = 16. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::To clarify - your problem is that you're rounding dates down and the error is accumulating. The jump forward in LDYB2 was 380 days, which is about 12 and 2/3 months. Then the jump between LDYB2 and Occupation is 134 days, which is 4 and 1/2 months. On top of it, the election in LDYB2 didn't take place exactly 270 days after the holocaust - the debates lasted about ten days, which is another 1/3 month, and the events of "Downloaded" were ''also'' said to be about 9 months post-holocaust, which pushes LDYB2 a few days forward to make everything fit. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:48, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
Does anyone think that Kacey might have been deliberately injured while Kara was out of the room, to force her sentiments? The Cylons have been shown to inflict wounds on one another for the purpose of emotional manipulation before, to encourage feelings of love between humans and Cylons (the Litmus episode). Since Kara's imprisonment seems to be one big mind game, I can't shake this feeling. --[[User:tt25|tt25]] 15:57, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
: I believe this to be likely. However, this is assuming that Kasey is Kara's biological child -- or even a hybrid at all. Kasey could just as easily be a child they picked up off the streets of New Caprica to mind-frak Kara. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:51, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:: I think, the actress does not fit to Kasey's age of 16 month. Children do their first steps, when they are about one year old. Kasey trampolines on the sofa and runs around. Her behaviour is too safe. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 11:53, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:::She is however a human/cylon hybrid and might not necesserily match human development. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::::The producers have been clear that Hera, another human/Cylon hybrid, will not have unusually fast growth. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::::: If anything, Hera has unusually SLOW growth. The scene where her adopted mother goes to be with her at the end of season 2 shows a baby, yet this was clearly 12+ months after she was born. She should have been larger and such. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 03:11, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Saul Tigh/Archive 1

2006-09-27T17:44:51Z

Bstone: /* Rank */

==Age?==

The profile states that he is in his "50s" and the article says that he is

:"A veteran in his mid-40s to early 50s"

In the commentary for ''[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]'', [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron Moore]] states that [[William Adama|Adama]] is younger than Tigh, and in addition to this, the fact that the [[Cylon War]] took place 40 years ago would obviously mean that he's probably not in his 50s, and definitely not in his mid-40s. Unless someone can argue against it, I'm changing these portions of the article. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 22:26, 26 October 2005 (EDT)

:We're probalby going to get around to removing age information from most of the character articles soon. See [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:31, 27 October 2005 (EDT)

::Even after completely discounting Adama's supposed age of 61 as a reference point, it's still reasonable to assume that both of them are in their 60s, due to reasons I already went into. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 23:49, 27 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Well. Remember that the war lasted for about 12 years (the Articles of Colonization were signed 52 years ago, which Moore [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/04/index.html#a000025 says] is coincident with the outbreak of hostilities, the war explicitly ended 40 years ago). If we guess that the age to enlist in the colonial military is 18, and Adama enlisted at the start, that would make him at most 70. If Tigh enlisted in the war's last year, that would make him at least 58.

:::Beyond that, I'm not sure what we can say with much certainty. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:26, 28 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: It might be asserted that joinin' age is lower in the Colonies. Is it not 16 in some European nations? I could be wrong. Of course, heck, the lifespans of Colonials could be vastly different from ours. They drive space ships routinely. They have FLT drives. Surely they have some medical technologies that we don't. Maybe they just live longer. This has no basis whatsoever on anything seen on screen, but it's possible, which means that any guesses we make of age based on the actors' appearences is fairly irrelevant. Of course... 70 would be about right for retiring, wouldn't it? But if Tigh is older, why hadn't he retired already? Or was Adama getting an early retirement? In which case, is 70 an ''early'' retirement? That might speak to Colonial life expectancy. Anyway... most of that is just rambling. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:23, 28 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Colonial military age is up to debate as Day stated, but we don't have to guess about when Adama joined the military. Moore also said in the same commentary I already referenced that he joined as a pilot in the last days of the war, which we can say with certainty was approximately 40 years ago. Tigh was also specifically said to have been slightly older than, and had seen more combat than Adama. Adding all of this together, we still come to the conclusion that both of them are most likely in their 60s. 10 years is a pretty safe margin of error. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 02:09, 29 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::I'll have to double check that. It seems odd for Saul to refer to Bill as "the old man" if he's not at least a few years younger. Another interesting question - in our military, there's usually a provision for forced retirement if you get passed over for promotion for enough years. Does anyone know more about that? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:41, 29 October 2005 (EDT)

My main problem with age (per recent edits) is the lack of consistency between bios. We may be able to get Tigh's down to within a few years, but it's still awfully sloppy, and other pages aren't much better. My edits were based on this thread (now that Peter located it for me). But let consensus rule...calculating ages aren't my specialty. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:27, 20 January 2006 (EST)

==Rating==
According to a deleted scene on the season 2 dvds, Tigh was a petty officer, an assistant gunner's mate, and still a teenager when his ship got boarded. This took place very early in the war and Tigh was still a teenager (more like Cally in age than Tyrol). Also, in the last week of the war, Adama was serving on the Galactica when it was boarded and the Cylons used the same tactics as in Valley of Darkness. Adama told Tigh what happened over a drink and this is how Tigh knew what was happening. In the boarding he was in, he was assigned to guard the ship's magazines. I'll add stuff to the main page later, just wanted to get y'alls opinion on this. It's late.--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 00:53, 27 December 2005 (EST)

:Ricimer and I had an extended conversation about this on [[Talk:Cylon War]] which you may wish to refer to. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:22, 27 December 2005 (EST)
::Thanks, I had missed that. It was just something I noticed while watching my new dvds yesterday. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:38, 27 December 2005 (EST)

== Picture? ==

I'm all for changing the pictures in the template to the promotional thing if the one we had was only so-so, but I really liked Tigh's picture, so... Why go and change them systematically? Anyone else find this somewhat rash? --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:27, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:I changed the character bio photo for consistency with many of the character bios elsewhere that started to use their promo pics. This was completely arbitrary, so if the collective says to use another picture, please do so. I think I was also trying to save it from the Island of Misfit Images, I think. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:01, 23 January 2006 (EST)

::One of them will be a misfit either way (unless we find a place for the other). But I appreciate people looking at and adopting images though... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:19, 23 January 2006 (EST)

::: I think consistancy is well and good, but I think consistantly cool photos are better than consistantly "promo" photos. And if we decided to use promo stuff, we'd have to be inconsistant for the more minor characters. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:17, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::I concur. Consistantly cool is better than consistantly "promo". Although, in the name of consistancy I wonder if it might be a good idea to establish guidelines on the type of shots we're looking for (on the character project maybe?). Personally, I look for a good 8x10 head and shoulders shot that's at least two hundred pixels wide, that doesn't have any other characters significantly in the shot (to avoid confusion). While a promo standard could be established ("use the promo shot if you've got it"), I think the show is capable of producing shots that are more representative of "the character", and cooler. Also, a character shot that illustrates/represents something in the bio or description might have more value than "actor posing for a promo shot". The promo shots can look a look a lot more polished sometimes, but with the advent of the DVD release and some of the high-resolution captures that are taken today, I think they may be obsolete. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:53, 24 January 2006 (EST)

== Images ==

I feel like we may be going a bit over-board on the number of pics on this page. I've a high-speed connection, but I don't want to alienate dial-up users and I don't want to angery any lawyers by skirting too close to "fair use". If I had to get rid of one, I'd say delete the (very dark) pic near the top with the "If the crew doesn't hate the XO..." quote. It's not a very quality shot.

Secondarily, I feel like the shot of Boomer and Tigh under "Tigh in Command" is huge. It also appears on the [[Scattered]] page, I think it should be replaced with the much-less-tall [[:image:Scattered-Tigh.jpg]]. Now, I may be a bit biased towards that one because I uploaded it, but I also think it displays wonderfully Tigh's overwhelmed feeling upon taking command. What do others think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:02, 20 January 2006 (EST)

*I think someone needs to get a screencap in [[Scar]] when Tigh has a really stupid grin on his face while Lt. Thrace walks up to Kat near the end. I might do it when I have a chance, but I don't feel like it right now.--[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 02:25, 4 February 2006 (EST)

== Occupation and Resistance ==

Since we will probably be adding this section to a lot of characters, is "Occupation and Resistance" OK? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:13, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
: I find this acceptable. What does everyone else have to say? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:21, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:31, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

== Call Sign ==

I don't know if it is just being skipped over or because it has never been mentioned, but since he did have a run as a Viper Pilot there seems to be no call sign for it. Does anyone know if there is information available as to his call sign? I question this because he is the only person known as a viper pilot who does not have their call sign name. I would recommend that it be added in the sub-profile "Call Sign: Unknown." Even Admiral Adama has his displayed. Thoughts? --[[User:AJFederation|AJFederation]] 15:55, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
: AJ, in response to your question, Tigh's call sign has never been mentioned. So we haven't added it. As for saying "Call Sign:Unknown" in the data box, we don't fill out forms in the databox with things such as unknown. If it is unknown, then the field is left blank and therefore undefined, so as to not clutter the infobox with "unknown"s for things we don't know about. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:08, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
::Perhpas we should add this to the [[BW:OC]] page? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 05:08, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

== Rank ==

Clearly he is a Colonel while serving aboard the Galactica. I wonder, however, if he should not have been promoted to General at the after the murder of Fisk (Pegasus Commander who took over after Adm Cain). I am a little fuzzy as to the exact ranking structure for the marines. However, if Tigh is Colonel over the marines on the Galactica and there is no Colonel on the Pegasus does it not make the most sense that he would be promoted to General in the same way that Adama was promoted to Admiral? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 00:09, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:The rank structure in Galactica is not the same as modern day militaries. "Colonel" is a rank in the fleet, roughly analogous to Captain in the US Navy. The rank structure in BSG has naval and army/airforce ranks mixed in. See [[Military Ranks (RDM)]] for further info. So, in short, no- Tigh should not have been promoted to "General", since that's not a rank in the BSG universe. "Colonel" is the rank generally held by a ship's Executive Officer. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 05:06, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:: This makes much more sense. My only remaining questions is why was Lee Adama only a major when Adm Adama placed him on the Pegasus? Should not his position be Col for the role he was playing? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 12:44, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:As above. Tigh isn't a Marine just because he has a modern Army/Marine rank. He's in Colonial Fleet like Adama, wears a CF uniform and the next rank for him would be Commander. For NCOs and enlisted the Marines use the same ranks as today. The excact structure of their officer ranks is unknown.--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:25, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

User talk:Bstone

2006-09-27T05:12:51Z

Bstone: test

<div style="align: center; padding: 2em; border: solid 1px #ffa500; background-color: #ffce7b;">
<center>'''Please click [{{fullurl:User_talk:Bstone|action=edit&section=new}} here] to leave me a new message. I will reply on your talk page unless you specify otherwise.'''</center></div>

== test ==

test [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 00:12, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

User talk:Bstone

2006-09-27T05:12:07Z

Bstone:

User talk:Bstone

2006-09-27T05:10:32Z

Bstone: /* Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! */

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User:Bstone

2006-09-27T05:09:44Z

Bstone:

I am Bstone. Isn't that great?!

Talk:Saul Tigh/Archive 1

2006-09-27T05:09:21Z

Bstone: /* Call Sign */

==Age?==

The profile states that he is in his "50s" and the article says that he is

:"A veteran in his mid-40s to early 50s"

In the commentary for ''[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]'', [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron Moore]] states that [[William Adama|Adama]] is younger than Tigh, and in addition to this, the fact that the [[Cylon War]] took place 40 years ago would obviously mean that he's probably not in his 50s, and definitely not in his mid-40s. Unless someone can argue against it, I'm changing these portions of the article. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 22:26, 26 October 2005 (EDT)

:We're probalby going to get around to removing age information from most of the character articles soon. See [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:31, 27 October 2005 (EDT)

::Even after completely discounting Adama's supposed age of 61 as a reference point, it's still reasonable to assume that both of them are in their 60s, due to reasons I already went into. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 23:49, 27 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Well. Remember that the war lasted for about 12 years (the Articles of Colonization were signed 52 years ago, which Moore [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/04/index.html#a000025 says] is coincident with the outbreak of hostilities, the war explicitly ended 40 years ago). If we guess that the age to enlist in the colonial military is 18, and Adama enlisted at the start, that would make him at most 70. If Tigh enlisted in the war's last year, that would make him at least 58.

:::Beyond that, I'm not sure what we can say with much certainty. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:26, 28 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: It might be asserted that joinin' age is lower in the Colonies. Is it not 16 in some European nations? I could be wrong. Of course, heck, the lifespans of Colonials could be vastly different from ours. They drive space ships routinely. They have FLT drives. Surely they have some medical technologies that we don't. Maybe they just live longer. This has no basis whatsoever on anything seen on screen, but it's possible, which means that any guesses we make of age based on the actors' appearences is fairly irrelevant. Of course... 70 would be about right for retiring, wouldn't it? But if Tigh is older, why hadn't he retired already? Or was Adama getting an early retirement? In which case, is 70 an ''early'' retirement? That might speak to Colonial life expectancy. Anyway... most of that is just rambling. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:23, 28 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Colonial military age is up to debate as Day stated, but we don't have to guess about when Adama joined the military. Moore also said in the same commentary I already referenced that he joined as a pilot in the last days of the war, which we can say with certainty was approximately 40 years ago. Tigh was also specifically said to have been slightly older than, and had seen more combat than Adama. Adding all of this together, we still come to the conclusion that both of them are most likely in their 60s. 10 years is a pretty safe margin of error. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 02:09, 29 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::I'll have to double check that. It seems odd for Saul to refer to Bill as "the old man" if he's not at least a few years younger. Another interesting question - in our military, there's usually a provision for forced retirement if you get passed over for promotion for enough years. Does anyone know more about that? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:41, 29 October 2005 (EDT)

My main problem with age (per recent edits) is the lack of consistency between bios. We may be able to get Tigh's down to within a few years, but it's still awfully sloppy, and other pages aren't much better. My edits were based on this thread (now that Peter located it for me). But let consensus rule...calculating ages aren't my specialty. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:27, 20 January 2006 (EST)

==Rating==
According to a deleted scene on the season 2 dvds, Tigh was a petty officer, an assistant gunner's mate, and still a teenager when his ship got boarded. This took place very early in the war and Tigh was still a teenager (more like Cally in age than Tyrol). Also, in the last week of the war, Adama was serving on the Galactica when it was boarded and the Cylons used the same tactics as in Valley of Darkness. Adama told Tigh what happened over a drink and this is how Tigh knew what was happening. In the boarding he was in, he was assigned to guard the ship's magazines. I'll add stuff to the main page later, just wanted to get y'alls opinion on this. It's late.--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 00:53, 27 December 2005 (EST)

:Ricimer and I had an extended conversation about this on [[Talk:Cylon War]] which you may wish to refer to. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:22, 27 December 2005 (EST)
::Thanks, I had missed that. It was just something I noticed while watching my new dvds yesterday. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:38, 27 December 2005 (EST)

== Picture? ==

I'm all for changing the pictures in the template to the promotional thing if the one we had was only so-so, but I really liked Tigh's picture, so... Why go and change them systematically? Anyone else find this somewhat rash? --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:27, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:I changed the character bio photo for consistency with many of the character bios elsewhere that started to use their promo pics. This was completely arbitrary, so if the collective says to use another picture, please do so. I think I was also trying to save it from the Island of Misfit Images, I think. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:01, 23 January 2006 (EST)

::One of them will be a misfit either way (unless we find a place for the other). But I appreciate people looking at and adopting images though... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:19, 23 January 2006 (EST)

::: I think consistancy is well and good, but I think consistantly cool photos are better than consistantly "promo" photos. And if we decided to use promo stuff, we'd have to be inconsistant for the more minor characters. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:17, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::I concur. Consistantly cool is better than consistantly "promo". Although, in the name of consistancy I wonder if it might be a good idea to establish guidelines on the type of shots we're looking for (on the character project maybe?). Personally, I look for a good 8x10 head and shoulders shot that's at least two hundred pixels wide, that doesn't have any other characters significantly in the shot (to avoid confusion). While a promo standard could be established ("use the promo shot if you've got it"), I think the show is capable of producing shots that are more representative of "the character", and cooler. Also, a character shot that illustrates/represents something in the bio or description might have more value than "actor posing for a promo shot". The promo shots can look a look a lot more polished sometimes, but with the advent of the DVD release and some of the high-resolution captures that are taken today, I think they may be obsolete. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:53, 24 January 2006 (EST)

== Images ==

I feel like we may be going a bit over-board on the number of pics on this page. I've a high-speed connection, but I don't want to alienate dial-up users and I don't want to angery any lawyers by skirting too close to "fair use". If I had to get rid of one, I'd say delete the (very dark) pic near the top with the "If the crew doesn't hate the XO..." quote. It's not a very quality shot.

Secondarily, I feel like the shot of Boomer and Tigh under "Tigh in Command" is huge. It also appears on the [[Scattered]] page, I think it should be replaced with the much-less-tall [[:image:Scattered-Tigh.jpg]]. Now, I may be a bit biased towards that one because I uploaded it, but I also think it displays wonderfully Tigh's overwhelmed feeling upon taking command. What do others think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:02, 20 January 2006 (EST)

*I think someone needs to get a screencap in [[Scar]] when Tigh has a really stupid grin on his face while Lt. Thrace walks up to Kat near the end. I might do it when I have a chance, but I don't feel like it right now.--[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 02:25, 4 February 2006 (EST)

== Occupation and Resistance ==

Since we will probably be adding this section to a lot of characters, is "Occupation and Resistance" OK? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:13, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
: I find this acceptable. What does everyone else have to say? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:21, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:31, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

== Call Sign ==

I don't know if it is just being skipped over or because it has never been mentioned, but since he did have a run as a Viper Pilot there seems to be no call sign for it. Does anyone know if there is information available as to his call sign? I question this because he is the only person known as a viper pilot who does not have their call sign name. I would recommend that it be added in the sub-profile "Call Sign: Unknown." Even Admiral Adama has his displayed. Thoughts? --[[User:AJFederation|AJFederation]] 15:55, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
: AJ, in response to your question, Tigh's call sign has never been mentioned. So we haven't added it. As for saying "Call Sign:Unknown" in the data box, we don't fill out forms in the databox with things such as unknown. If it is unknown, then the field is left blank and therefore undefined, so as to not clutter the infobox with "unknown"s for things we don't know about. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:08, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

== Rank ==

Clearly he is a Colonel while serving aboard the Galactica. I wonder, however, if he should not have been promoted to General at the after the murder of Fisk (Pegasus Commander who took over after Adm Cain). I am a little fuzzy as to the exact ranking structure for the marines. However, if Tigh is Colonel over the marines on the Galactica and there is no Colonel on the Pegasus does it not make the most sense that he would be promoted to General in the same way that Adama was promoted to Admiral? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 00:09, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance

2006-09-18T23:28:31Z

Bstone: /* Notes */

:''This page covers the webisode series titled "The Resistance," which follows the exploits of the [[New Caprica Resistance]]. For other meanings, see "[[Resistance]]".''

{{Episode Data
| image=Webisode Resistance - 1.jpg
| title=Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance
| series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| season=3
| episode=0
| guests=
| writer=[[Bradley Thompson]] [[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director=[[Wayne Rose]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-09-05 through 2006-10-05
| UK airdate= Not yet available in the UK
| dvd=
| population=
| prev=[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]
| next=[[Occupation]]
}}

== Overview ==
'''''Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance''''' will be web-based series that claims to fill in the gaps between [[season 2 (2005-06)|season two]] and [[Season 3 (2006-07)|three]] of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]]. The webisodes can be viewed from the official [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/webisodes/ web portal] at [http://scifi.com SciFi.com]. An official [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/webisodes/faq.html FAQ] is provided there to answer questions about availability and technical issues.

The webisode series is written by veteran BSG writers [[Bradley Thompson]] and [[David Weddle]], and directed by [[Wayne Rose]]. The entire series is about 25 minutes long in total, and divided into 10 episodes.

== Summary ==
===[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/webisodes/01 Episode 1]===
* Running time: ~3:19
* Starts on the 67th day after [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]

Tyrol and Tigh organize the budding resistance movement on Cylon-occupied New Caprica, but they find recruiting new soldiers is becoming dangerous and difficult. The Cylons have instituted a curfew. Violators go to jail, which is the first thing the Cylons built on [[New Caprica]]. New Capricans are shot on the spot if weapons are found in their tents. A stash of weapons belonging to [[Longo]] was confiscated by the Cylons, but the resistance was able to retrieve some of them which were hidden underneath his latrine. The Cylons are also setting up a [[New Caprica Police|human police force]] to take over for the [[Cylon Centurion]]s, who are doing most of the police work.

===[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/webisodes/02 Episode 2]===
*Running time: ~1:54
Duck has refused to work with the resistance, on the grounds of his relationship and intended child with Nora. Tyrol is highly displeased at this, particularly his reasons, as they parallel Tyrol's own situation; Jammer suggests respecting Duck's decision.

A ritual for protection of the crops from blight is said in the temple. As the priestess leaves, Jean Barolay abruptly shifts the conversation to the movement of the weapons stash into the [[temple]]; Jammer strongly objects, but he is overruled by Tigh.

===[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/webisodes/03 Episode 3]===
*Running time: ~2:42
In the evening, Nora prays to Aphrodite to bless she and Duck with a child. He tells her his decision about joining the resistance. She is pleased that he refused Tyrol.

During the night, Tigh, Tyrol, Jammer, and Barolay move the weapons into the temple disguising them.

The next morning, Nora wakes Duck saying he will be late to work. She tries to convince him to go to temple after work with her. He refuses, saying he talks to the gods in his own way.

===[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/webisodes/04 Episode 4]===
*Running time: ~2:00
[[Cally]] and [[Nora]] visit the temple. Nora is holding Cally's baby while Cally is performing a ceremony. At that moment [[Cylon Centurion|Cylon Centurions]] can be heard outside, and a [[Number Five]] announces that they will enter the temple. Several men try to block them, but the Cylons force their way in and gunfire can be seen and heard. While trying to run away Cally falls to the ground protecting her baby, but Nora is shot and killed when she tries to retrieve her bag.

===Episode 5===
===Episode 6===
===Episode 7===
===Episode 8===
===Episode 9===
===Episode 10===

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The original title of the webisode series was "Crossroads"
*Currently, attempting to view the webisodes from outside of the USA will either present you with a frozen video player stating that the video will start playing following a brief advertisement in the case of the webisode splash page currently on scifi.com, or a message stating "We're sorry, but the clip selected isn't available from your location. Please select another clip" if the user opens the video on Sci Fi's Pulse website. Users outside of America will have to wait until a DVD release, television broadcast, or some other means becomes available to view them.
* Originally it was stated that new webisodes would be available midnight on Tuesday and Thursday. This no longer appears to be the case, but rather new webisodes appearing in the afternoon of those days.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

When ''[[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques/Archive03#Webisode series|Battlestar Wiki asked Bradley Thompson]]'' about the webisode series, he said:

:"It's true that David Weddle and I wrote the webisodes. Ron Moore and David Eick assigned them to us during the production of Exodus. The ten short segments combine to tell one story, which takes place during the Cylon Occupation that ended Season 2. The webisodes plant seeds that come to fruition in Season 3. They were all directed by Wayne Rose, the veteran director who's been doing 2nd Unit and 1stAD work for the series. The original title of the story was "Crossroads." The running lengths will vary with what's necessary to tell each segment of the story. The first cut I saw of all ten ran about 25 minutes. The run plan we were told was that they'd put up one a week as a countdown to the season premiere -- but SciFi may have other ideas on that by now."

"Nora is played by Emily Holmes. Longo is spelled the way you have it." -- contents of September 5, 2006 message from [[Bradley Thompson]]

=== Contract Disputes and Production Delays===

According to Bradley Thompson, the webisodes were originally meant to be aired once a week, for the 10 weeks preceding the Season 3 premiere on October 6th. This would have resulted in the webisodes premiering in mid-August. However, their release was delayed due to a labor dispute between the Writer's Guild of America and NBC/Universal regarding extra pay for the writers doing the webisodes.

In August 2006, news began to leak out that the release of the webisodes would be delayed, though they were essentially finished at the time. NBC-Universal did not want to pay the writing team for webisodes content, holding that they were not actually covered under Guild contract, and were technically just promotional material. The ''Battlestar Galactica'' writing team embraced the new story opportunity, but other NBC-Universal series such as ''The Office'' felt that webisodes were nothing but extra filler they were being forced to crank out. According to Thompson, the writing team was given extra pay for vaguely described "extra work", but no long-term resolution was ever reached. The WGA is concerned about the long-term implications of online content: writers are not specifically compensated for their work on them, and NBC/Uni might argue that they have no claim on redistribution profits if they try to classify it as "promotional" material. In any event, by August 2006 the negotiations between the WGA and NBC/Uni broke down, and the WGA ordered all series producing webisodes (such as ''Battlestar Galactica'' and ''The Office'') to refuse to physically deliver the webisodes to NBC/Uni for distribution online. NBC/Universal, who produces both shows, has filed a complaint with National Labor Relations Board, claiming that this writing is included in the current WGA contract and urging the NLRB to make the series release the material.

However, several weeks later the finished webisodes were handed over to NBC/Uni. The first of ten webisodes is due to be released on Tuesday, September 5, 2006, and subsequent installments are scheduled for every Tuesday and Thursday until the Season 3 premiere on October 6, 2006.

== Cast ==
These are listed in the order they appeared during the 10 episodes.

{| class="messagebox" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2"
! class="infoboxheader" | '''Cast Member'''
! class="infoboxheader" | '''Character'''
! class="infoboxheader" colspan="10" | '''Episode(s)'''
|-
| [[Nicki Clyne]]
| [[Cally Henderson Tyrol|Cally]]
| 1
| -
| -
| 4
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|-
| [[Aaron Douglas]]
| [[Galen Tyrol]]
| 1
| 2
| 3
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|-
| [[Christian Tessier]]
| [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]]
| 1
| 2
| 3
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|-
| [[Dominic Zamprogna]]
| [[Jammer]]
| 1
| 2
| 3
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|-
| [[Michael Hogan]]
| [[Saul Tigh]]
| 1
| 2
| 3
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|-
| [[imdb:nm0391820|Emily Holmes]]
| [[Nora]]
| 1
| -
| 3
| 4
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|-
| [[Alisen Down]]
| [[Jean Barolay]]
| -
| 2
| 3
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|-
| [[imdb:nm0601003|Carmen Moore]]
| [[Sister Tivenan]]
| -
| 2
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|-
| [[Matthew Bennett]]
| [[Number Five]]
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
| -
|}

== Crew ==

* Executive producers - [[Ronald D. Moore]] and [[David Eick]]
* Producer - [[Harvey Frand]], [[Bradley Thompson]] (BSG Wiki User Page), and [[David Weddle]]
* Post production - [[Paul Leonard]]
* director of photography was John Drake.
* edited by Michael O'Halloran, Tim Kinzy, Ian Kezbaum, and Harry Jierjian.
* music is by Bear McCreary.
* visual effects were supervised by Gary Hutzel.
* production manager was Boris Ivanov
* first assistant directors were Shirley-Anne Parsons and Alexia Droz.
* second assistant director was Mindy Heslin.
* costumes on the set were supervised by Keith Parent.
* make-up artist was Ankara Eden.
* second assitant make-up person was Liz Raman Nair.
* first assistant hair stylist was Jamie McKay.
* assistants in charge of props were Glenn Hilworth, Gerry Thompson, and Robert Stecky.
* sound mixer was Mark Noda.
* boom operators were Keith Henderson and Tony Wyman.
* first assistant camera person was Shannon Abbott.
* digital imaging technician was Tracy Sim.
* gaffer was Guy Patterson.
* best boy electic was Paul Bougie.
* genny operator was Murray Chysyk.
* lamp op was Blair McDonald.
* key grip was Mark Leiterman.
* best boy grips were Dave McKinlay and Ron Baran.
* script supervisor was Carol Green-Lundy.
* medic and craft services person was Tim Gunderson.
* Galactica Main Title Theme was composed by Richard Gibbs.
* Scoring and orchestral engineering were done by Steve Kaplan.
* music editor was Michael Baber.
* special effects coordinators were Al Collis and Kevin Andruschak.
* studio executive was Richard Rothstein.
* studio executive in charge of production was Todd Sharp.
* network executives were Mark Stern and Erik Storey.

== Guest Stars ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{sourcebox|One Million Streams}}

 

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Wayne Rose]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|*]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:RDM]]