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Occupation

2008-06-17T06:02:28Z

Bgii 2000:

{{Episode Data
| title= Occupation
| image=Season 3 - Promo - Epi 1 - 2 - Number Three talking.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 1
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Ronald D. Moore]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production= 301
| rating= 1.8
| US airdate= 2006-10-06
| CAN airdate=2006-10-07
| UK airdate= 2007-01-09
| population=
| extra= '''Season 3.0 Premiere'''
| prev= [[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]
| next= [[Precipice]]
| podcast= Y
| frakr=Whinynation
|unbox=B000V6XS2A
}}

== Overview ==
:''It has been four months since the [[Cylons (RDM) |Cylons]] occupied the human settlement of [[New Caprica]], and ''[[Galactica]],'' ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', and a handful of ships jumped to safety. On New Caprica, a resistance has begun to challenge the Cylons. Aboard ''Galactica'', [[Admiral Adama]] struggles with plans for a rescue, having only a handful of untested pilots at his command, understaffed ships, and facing a nearly impossible task.

== Summary ==

: '''''Please note:''' This page is undergoing a revision for act-by-act summaries. It is by no means complete and is in progress. Please feel free to contribute to this effort, thank you!''

=== Teaser ===

*The episode begins with a series of cut scenes. Light flashes over [[Saul Tigh]]'s face. He is in a prison cell, his missing eye patched over with a gauze bandage, and has scratched notches into a calendar on the wall. His wife, [[Ellen Tigh]], is having sex with one of the [[Cavil]]s. [[Laura Roslin]] lights a candle and prays to the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|gods]]. [[Galen Tyrol]] and [[Samuel Anders]] are planting a bomb using [[G-4]] and a detonator within a building space.
*[[Kara Thrace]] is inside a neatly decorated room, setting a table.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] tries to strategize a rescue plan with a series of various models of fighters, support vehicles and other civilian ships in the [[Situation Room]]'s plot table, but becomes frustrated and hurls a model across the table.
*Another Cavil walks into Tigh's cell. He walks sits down, wears sunglasses to see in the bright light, and then taunts Tigh about the hash marks that Tigh attempts to hide. Sunglasses-Cavil laughs and comments that every time Tigh is taken out of the cell, the Cylons come in and they change the calendar.
* A copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] walks into the room where Thrace sits at table, carrying her dinner. He sits and prays to [[God (RDM)|"The Heavenly Father"]] for their bounty.
* Meanwhile, Ellen Tigh is straddling another Cavil. Cavil climaxes and, after the deed is done, Ellen begins to walk away from the couch while Cavil laughs in the background.
* Tyrol arms the explosive. As the Cylon [[Heavy Raider]] begins to land, Tyrol and Anders move off to a safe distance from the explosive.
*Thrace coyly asks the Conoy copy for a knife for her steak, but Conoy takes his knife and cuts her steak himself. Thrace thanks him.
*After Ellen Tigh's liaison with her Cavil copy, she asks when will she gets what she asked for, suggesting a previous deal. The Cylon informs her that it should be happening right at that moment. At same time, the Cavil in the cell with Colonel Tigh releases him from prison in a very taunting way; Cavil notes that his case was reviewed by the review committee and "I must say there was great disappointment on the review committee", then leaves with the cell door open. At Cavil's urging, Tigh exits his cell for "bureaucracy must be served" before his release in the form of paperwork.
* Tigh leaves the [[New Caprica Detention Center]], he prison and his wife meets him at the gate. She notes the eye-patch of medical gauze and asks what they did to him during his imprisonment, however he just wants to leave.
[[Image:301 a calm quiet dinner with Kara Thrace.jpg|thumb|Kara Thrace enjoys her dinner (Teaser)]]
*A group of '[[Humanoid Cylon|skinjobs]]' including at least 3 [[Number Eight|Eight]]s, 3 [[Number Six|Six]]es, and 2 [[Number Five|Five]]s approach the Heavy Raider as several '[[Cylon Centurion|chromejobs]]' exit it. Tyrol repeatedly hits the remote control until the bomb goes off. The explosion is witnessed by both the Tighs, and by the Conoy copy with Thrace from their apartment. He returns to the table, pushes his knife away from Thrace.
*As he comments on how beautiful she is, Thrace stabs him in the neck with metal chopsticks. As he dies (while Thrace repeatedly stabs his chest for good measure), he tells Thrace that he will see her soon. She tells him to take his time. Then, after wiping her hand on the carpet, she returns to the table and calmly resumes eating dinner.

=== Act 1 ===

* [[Laura Roslin]], still a school teacher, is writing an entry on the 134th day of the [[Cylon Occupation Authority|Cylon occupation]] of New Caprica. Coincidentally, that day falls on [[Mars Day]], named after the Colonial God of War. She notes that the New Capricans have not had contact with ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' for four months, noting that she refuses to believe that Admiral [[William Adama]] would abandon them. She then notes about the insurgency, saying that they are striking whenever and wherever possible, believing them critical to morale despite the futility of the gestures at times.
* She notes that for the insurgency to have a "more meaningful impact", they need to strike a high profile target, since killing the Cylons is [[Resurrection (RDM)|nearly impossible]].
* Roslin then speaks of the [[Cylon Occupation Authority]]'s continued exertion of complete control over [[New Caprica City]] and are at their complete mercy. She notes that the [[Government of the Twelve Colonies|government]] under President [[Gaius Baltar]] functions in name only.
* The members of the Occupation Authority discuss their current situation, with [[Cavil]] leading the session, recapping why the Cylons are on New Caprica in the first place. A Cavil mentions that they need to tighten their control on the human population, suggesting that they execute Baltar. [[Caprica Six]] is disgusted at this and mentions that those who want to kill Baltar will have to deal with her. A [[Number Five]] diffuses the issue, saying that it would have no effect, since the Colonials would only relish his death in light of Baltar's cooperation with the occupation. The Cavils suggest rounding up insurgents and executing them publicly, which seems to be a course of action that most of the models agree to, except Caprica and [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]].
[[Image:301 gloves are coming off.jpg|thumb|[[Cavil]] (left) proposes reducing the population down to a "more manageable size".]]
* After the group leaves, [[Number Three]] asks Caprica if her love of Baltar is worth the loss they may incur over their experiment. Caprica replies that, "If you ever experienced love, you wouldn't have to ask."
* Roslin writes of the [[New Caprica Police]] in her journal, finding the prospect of humans misguided into believing that they're taking the role of policing New Caprica out Cylon hands nauseating. She notes that the names of the police officers are deeply hidden, but are likely people that "we least expect". Roslin notes that hundreds of people have been rounded up by the Cylons, held in detention, tortured, and even killed or disappeared.
* Roslin notes the help of a source within Baltar's administration that has been helping them in recent weeks. They do not know who this person is, but the person is responsible for dropping important documents. The source communicates through the use of a signal, tipping over a yellow food bowl belonging to a dog named [[Jake the dog|Jake]]. In the most recent drop, Tyrol retrieves security plans for the New Caprica Police graduation ceremony.
* Tyrol tells [[Cally Tyrol|Cally]], his wife, who is taking care of their baby, [[Nicholas Tyrol]], that he will be back in a few hours. She voices her concern about there being a day when he doesn't come back, inferring that he may be killed, captured, or disappeared, and that Nick will never know his father. In an attempt to assuage her fears, he promises to be back in a couple hours, then leaves.
* Tigh meets up with Tyrol and Anders in an underground bunker, which serves as the headquarters for the resistance. Using a shovel as a cane, he sits down as they share a brief drink of alcohol. Tigh explains about how the Cylons ripped out his eye and showed it to him, recalling that it looked like a "hardboiled egg". Tigh asks after the explosion earlier, congratulating them on their successful attack.
* Tyrol reveals that their next target will be the [[New Caprica Police Academy]] during the graduating ceremony. Noting their new source within the Baltar administration, Tyrol comments on the security plans and the fact that Baltar will also be present. Tigh relishes the opportunity to kill Baltar. Tyrol notes that it will be difficult avoiding human casualties, a point that Tigh does not care about, since he believes it's time to send a message that if any human works for the Cylons, they're a target as well.
* Tigh then asks about the [[wireless]]. Tyrol ruefully notes that the Cylons have jammed every signal, making it impossible to contact anyone in orbit, but they still attempt to contact the [[Raptor]] in orbit. Tyrol notes that he's asked their source what the weakest jamming frequencies are, but they have yet to receive anything. Anders doesn't believe there is a Raptor, which gets a rise out of Tigh, who believes that Adama will never leave them to the Cylons, and the Raptor sitting out there and waiting for their wireless transmission was part of the plan in the event anything happened.
* Anders replies that Adama left him to the Cylons, noting that were it not for his wife, he'd be dead a long time ago.
* Tigh asks after Thrace, but Anders hasn't heard anything in the four months since she was taken.
* In the apartment prison, a newly-resurrected Conoy enters, announcing: "Hi, honey, I'm home." He notes that she's killed him five times, indicating that her efforts are futile. He tries to convince her that he wants to help her see "the truth of your life, the reason why you suffered and you struggled for so long". She replies that he's right and thanks him for putting up with her, however Conoy sees through the ruse and asks her to put down her knife, which she was prepared to stab him with. She drops the knife. He replies that he's a patient man and he needs more time. She scoffs at this, saying that there will never be a relationship between them.
* Conoy is convinced that they will have a relationship. He describes it to her, saying that she'll hold him in her arms, embrace him, and tell him that she loves him. He claims to have seen it. She believes him to be insane. Conoy replies that "to know the face of [[God (RDM)|God]] is to know madness".
* He tells her he's going to bed and asks her to go to bed with him. He attempts to kiss her, but she turns away.
* Ruefully, Conoy adds that she'll spend the night with him either way, referring to the corpse his previous body that she killed earlier.
* After he bids her good night, Thrace runs out of the apartment and into a hallway. The end of the hallways is gated like a prison cell. She runs up to it and begins to rattle the bars, scream that she wants to be let out and doesn't belong there.

=== Act 2 and beyond ===

* In the remaining spaceborne [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], a training operation lead by ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> [[CAG]], Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]], is underway. Members of the [[Raptor]] squadron, the [[Snowbird Squadron|Snowbirds]], lead by Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]] have a hard time keeping formation.
* Meanwhile, Admiral [[William Adama]] hears the [[wireless]] chatter from the exercise, which is pumped in through the ship's speakers. He makes his rounds on ''Galactica'', first in the [[hangar bay]] picking up parts, and walking through ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> pitch-black hallways with a flashlight as he's reading papers.
* Captain [[Karl Agathon]], ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> executive officer, orders the Raptors to commence with the training exercise. During the exercise, the Snowbirds's deployed drones fly every which way. Katraine aborts the mission. Agathon acknowledges this and orders the ships to return because they are low on fuel.
* Adama, having just entered the CIC, belays the order and tells Agathon to send out a tanker bird for them to practice in-flight fueling. Then he wants them to continue the mission. Agathon tells Adama that they've done the exercise sixteen times; Adama then replies that the next will make seventeen. Agathon agrees, knowing the point Adama was making with the reply.
* On ''[[Pegasus (TOS)|Pegasus]]'', a topless, hanging-bellied [[Lee Adama]] overhears Agathon's order that they recover the drones and the dispatch of a tanker bird. He waddles to the phone. He orders them to get the admiral on the line.
* In ''Pegasus'''s [[CIC]], Lee engages in a heated discussion with Adama over the training efforts, however the conversation is cut off when Katraine reports a collision of two [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] piloted by [[Bingo]] and [[Wally]]. She requests, and is granted, immediate landing for the two Vipers. Admiral Adama throws the phone across the table.

*Every day a Raptor jumps in and listens for a wireless broadcast. With the list of jamming frequencies provided by Gaeta, Tyrol manages to contact the Colonial Fleet.
[[image:Hope.jpg|300px|right]]
* Now having made contact with the Galatica and feeling that rescue may be near Tyrol has second thoughts that a suicide bombing may not be the best course of action, but Tigh disagrees and says to only call off the attack if Baltar will not be attending.
*Baltar decides not to attend the graduation ceremony. Gaeta is unable to signal Tyrol in time of this last-minute change.
*With little left to lose, [[Duck]] prays to the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]]. He has placed several packs of explosives around his waist, wiring himself as a living bomb. He dons his [[NCP]] uniform to attend their graduation ceremony, intending to kill [[Gaius Baltar]] and as many traitors and Cylons as he can.
*As a [[Number Three]] presents Duck with his graduation certificate he detonates the explosives attached to his body, his last words being "I'll see you soon [[Nora]]."

== Notes ==

=== Alternate story lines and ideas ===

*According to the [[Podcast:Collaborators|podcast]] for "[[Collaborators]]", [[James Lyman]] was going to be the suicide bomber, and not [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]].
*[[Ronald D. Moore]] says in the podcast that alternate scripts included members of the [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance]] kidnapping humanoid Cylons and keeping them alive in a dungeon. The remaining Cylons would become more apprehensive with each mysterious disappearance.
*Moreover, Clellan's and Lyman's roles were reversed during the planning of the arc. However, [[Aaron Douglas]] pointed out that Lyman has previously been portrayed as a weak person ([[Valley of Darkness]]) and that it would thus make more sense to make him the collaborator ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion Season Three]])
*A scene showing how Tigh loses his eye was shot, with a [[Number Five]] poking the camera's lens in a point-of-view shot. However, it was felt that it would be too weird and stylized for the show, and that Tigh only telling about it would be more effective (Season 3 Companion).

=== Story and Events ===

*Unlike episodes of [[Season 2 (2005-06)|Season 2]], the intro to this episode does not give the [[survivor count]]. The population whiteboard present in Season 1 & 2 has been replaced by Baltar's presidential portrait, which is later hung over the bathroom at the suggestion of [[Tory Foster]] in "[[Hero]]".
*The episode opens on the 134th day since the Cylon occupation.
*In her journal, Roslin notes that it is "[[Mars Day]]", which is the Roman name for Ares. This is at least the second time that the Roman names for the Greek pantheon have been used.
*Crew changes in the year after settlement glimpsed in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" are confirmed here: Captain [[Karl Agathon]] is serving as ''Galactica'''s executive officer (XO), with [[Louanne Katraine]] as ''Galactica''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s [[CAG]]. [[Anastasia Dualla]], shown for the first time with lieutenant rank insignia, is serving as XO on ''Pegasus''.
* [[Lee Adama]] has gained roughly 40 pounds since the the Fleet found New Caprica. His father claims that he is soft, both physically and mentally.
* [[Caprica-Six]] seems to keep [[Gaius Baltar]] company on ''Colonial One'' in an unofficial capacity.
* Eight Cylons are visible at the graduation ceremony:
**To the right of the podium: an Eight, a Five, a Six, and a Cavil.
**To the left of the podium: A Six, an Eight, and another Six.
**Speaking: a Three.
*Duck's rank in the [[New Caprica Police]] is captain. After the bombing, [[James Lyman|Jammer]] appears to fill this role.

=== Initial American broadcast ===

*The episode started off with a warning indicating "'''Mature Subject Matter'''" during its initial Sci-Fi Channel United States debut. The following episode, "[[Precipice]]", also reiterated this warning.
*"Occupation" and "Precipice" was edited as one 2-hr episode with only one intro. However, in the podcast, [[Ronald D. Moore]] indicates the "beginning" of "Precipice". On the [[Battlestar Galactica - Season 3 (Region 1 DVD)|Region 1 DVD]] set for [[Season 3 (2006-07)|Season 3]], the episodes are presented as two distinct episodes.
*[[Kandyse McClure]]'s first name is spelled in the [[opening credits]] as "Candice". Though she has been credited under this name in other projects, this is the first and, so far, only time it has been used for the show. As she [[Kandyse McClure#Notes|explains later on]], "Candice" is the true spelling of her first name, and the Kandyse spelling is "kind of a joke". However, she had it reversed, seeing as she did not want to confuse people. The results of this reversal can be seen on the Region 1 DVD set for Season 3 in the opening credits to this episode, where the spelling is corrected to "Kandyse McClure".

=== Production ===

*The apartment room that Leoben holds [[Kara Thrace]] captive in from this episode through "[[Exodus, Part II]]" is a redress of the set used for Starbuck's old apartment in [[Delphi]] seen in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".

=== Awards ===

*"Occupation/[[Precipice]]" was awarded the [[Awards and Honors|IGN.com Editor's choice award]], following a review in which it received a rating of 10/10.
*This episode was nominated for "Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series" in the 2007 Emmys.

== Analysis ==
* Prior to the Cylon occupation, the population of New Caprica City was 39,192. Since that time, there have been at least 44 deaths and 1 birth:
**[[Nicholas Tyrol]] was born sometime between "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" and ''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]''.
**[[Charles Longo]] was killed by the Cylons for hiding weapons in his tent ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance#Episode 1|The Resistance: Episode 1]]).
**There were 10 deaths in ''Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance'' due to the temple raid, including [[Nora]].
**There were at least 33 deaths in this episode due to the suicide bombing at the NCP graduation ceremony. The figure was supplied by the Cylon leadership, and it is unknown whether they included attacker [[Tucker Clellan]] among the casualties.
* It is later noted by [[Cassidy]] in [[Gaius Baltar]]'s trial during "[[Crossroads, Part I]]" that 5,197 were killed during the Cylon occupation, her inference being that the figure of the number of deaths occurred on New Caprica. Thus the total number of people on New Caprica before the [[Battle of New Caprica]] and the [[Exodus, Part II|succeeding exodus]] was 33,995.
* Several New Capricans appear to have sores or lesions on their faces.
* Near the end of the episode, as [[Felix Gaeta]] races to inform the resistance that Baltar won't be attending the graduation, a P.A. system can be heard advertising the [[New Caprica Medical Center]], staffed by "a crack team of human and Cylon physicians". Among the crack team is Doctor [[Cottle]], as later seen in "[[Exodus, Part I]]".
**This may explain Anders's recovery from his pneumonia, seen in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
* During the episode, Conoy mentions that Kara Thrace has succeeded in killing Conoy five times (including the killing that was shown).
* Conoy is obsessed with a future he has "seen" in which Thrace falls in love with him. He repeatedly tells Thrace that she only needs more time.
* As [[Occupation#Notes|noted above]], the apartment Leoben keeps Thrace captive in is identical to the one she used to live in on Caprica. It is quite possible that the New Caprica complex was designed to resemble her old residence possibly to further Conoy's mind games with her by placing her in a familiar environment.
* There doesn't seem to be any civilian government supervising the spacebound ships. There appears to be a state of martial law throughout the space-bound Fleet, as Admiral [[William Adama]] is ''de facto'' leader of this fleet.
* The Cylons have either built a resurrection facility on New Caprica or positioned a [[Resurrection Ship]] near enough to the planet for downloads to take place. However, no Resurrection Ship is seen in orbit when the basestars are shown.
* Only two basestars are seen on screen, yet five are reported back to the Fleet. Although it's likely that they are behind the planet or in another part of the nebula.
* Number Three allows herself to be seen openly among the Colonials. Presumably the cover of infiltrator [[D'anna Biers]] was compromised with the return of [[Samuel Anders]] the previous year.
*Although it was widely speculated that [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]] may be a humanoid Cylon, due to his pessimistic attitude ("[[Litmus]]", "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]") and unlikely survival during the events of "[[Valley of Darkness]]", the events of this episode and comments by Ronald D. Moore seem to preclude the possibility.
**In ''Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance'', a copy of [[Number Five]] refers to Lyman as a human.
**In this episode, it is seen that Lyman has joined the [[New Caprica Police]], an exclusively human organization.
**While Lyman's survival of the suicide bombing may seem suspect to some viewers, Moore states that an unfilmed scene would show him waking up under the bodies, and having to move body parts out of the way as he extricated himself from the carnage ([[Podcast:Precipice|"Precipice", podcast]]).

== Questions ==

* How did Anders manage to recover from his pneumonia without the medical supplies Thrace was seeking in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II"? ([[Crossroads, Part II|Possible Answer]])
* Have Helo and Kat been given the promotions in rank that their new posts would warrant? ([[Precipice|Answer: Kat]], [[A Measure of Salvation|Answer: Helo]])
* When did Number Three reveal her Cylon nature?
* Why isn't Leoben Conoy involved in the decisions of the [[Cylon Occupation Authority]]?
* Where is Doctor [[Cottle]]? ([[Exodus, Part I|Answer]])
* Where is [[Tom Zarek]]? ([[Precipice|Answer]])
* What of "[[Hera|Isis]]" and [[Maya]]? ([[Exodus, Part II|Answer]])
* Who is ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> CAG?
* Are the Cylons continuing to pursue the Fleet? If not, why not?
* Does anyone know of [[Felix Gaeta]]'s feeding of information to the resistance? ([[Taking a Break From All Your Worries|Answer]])
* What events lead to [[Sharon Agathon]]'s change in behavior over time? How have she and William Adama been able to develop a friendly relationship?
* Where/How did the New Capricans obtain steak?

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*{{audio|301 delusional machines.mp3|''During a meeting about the insurgency:''}}
: '''First [[Cavil]]:''' Let's review why we're here, shall we? We're supposed to bring the word of "God" to the people, right?
: '''Second Cavil:''' To save humanity from damnation by bringing the love of "God" to these poor benighted people.
: '''[[Caprica-Six]]:''' We're here because the majority of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] felt the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|slaughter of mankind]] had been a mistake.
:'''[[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]''': We're here to find a new way to live in peace, as [[God (RDM)|God]] wants us to live!
:'''Second Cavil''': And it's been a fun ride, so far. But I want to clarify our objectives. If we're bringing the word of "God," then it follows we should employ any means necessary to so, any means.
:'''First Cavil''': Yes. Fear is a key article of faith, as I understand it. So, perhaps it's time to instill a little more fear into the people's hearts and minds. Let's, uh, let's execute [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]].
:'''Gaius Baltar''': What, '''''what'''''?
:'''Caprica-Six''': That's not gonna happen.
:'''Cavil:''' Just because he's your favorite toy shouldn't be allowed to interfere with the larger issues here.
:'''Gaius Baltar''': I think I have cooperated—
:'''Caprica-Six''': Gaius is with me. Anyone who wants to challenge that will have to deal with me.
:'''First [[Number Five]]''': No, it doesn't matter. If we'd killed him in the beginning, it might have worked.
:'''Second Five''': But now most humans think of him as a traitor and would actually cheer his death.
:'''First Cavil''': Fine, fine. We don't kill Baltar. We round up the leaders of the insurgency and we execute them, publicly. We round up, at random, groups off the street and we execute them, publicly.
:'''Second Cavil''': Send a message that the gloves are coming ''off''. The insurgency stops ''now'', or else we'll start reducing the human population to a... more manageable size, I don't know, say... less than a thousand.
:'''Boomer''': We need to stop being butchers!
:'''Caprica-Six''': The entire point of coming here was to start a new way of life, to push ''past'' the conflict that separated us from humans for so long.
:'''Cavil''': And what has it gotten ''us''? It's not like they welcomed us with, with... Oh, frak it, never mind. You're all living in a fantasy world. Consider the irony in that! (laughing) Delusional machines! What's the universe gonna come up with next?

*''After hearing that contact had been established with New Caprica:''
:'''[[William Adama]]''': It's gonna be okay. It's really gonna be okay.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Henderson Tyrol|Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Rick Worthy]] as [[Simon]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil]]
*[[Erica Cerra]] as [[Maya]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Christian Tessier]] as [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]]
*[[Brad Dryborough]] as Lt. [[Hoshi]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Madeline Parker]] as [[Kacey]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]]
*[[Mylène Dinh-Robic]] as Officer #1
*[[Ryan McDonell]] as [[Eammon Pike|Eammon "Gonzo" Pike]] (credited as Pilot #3)
*[[Byron Lawson]] as Pilot #4
*[[Colin Lawrence]] as [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]
*[[Larissa Stadnichuk]] as Suicide bomber

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Okkupation]]
[[zh:占领]]

Occupation

2008-06-17T05:04:52Z

Bgii 2000: Added steak question

{{Episode Data
| title= Occupation
| image=Season 3 - Promo - Epi 1 - 2 - Number Three talking.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 1
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Ronald D. Moore]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production= 301
| rating= 1.8
| US airdate= 2006-10-06
| CAN airdate=2006-10-07
| UK airdate= 2007-01-09
| population=
| extra= '''Season 3.0 Premiere'''
| prev= [[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]
| next= [[Precipice]]
| podcast= Y
| frakr=Whinynation
|unbox=B000V6XS2A
}}

== Overview ==
:''It has been four months since the [[Cylons (RDM) |Cylons]] occupied the human settlement of [[New Caprica]], and ''[[Galactica]],'' ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', and a handful of ships jumped to safety. On New Caprica, a resistance has begun to challenge the Cylons. Aboard ''Galactica'', [[Admiral Adama]] struggles with plans for a rescue, having only a handful of untested pilots at his command, understaffed ships, and facing a nearly impossible task.

== Summary ==

: '''''Please note:''' This page is undergoing a revision for act-by-act summaries. It is by no means complete and is in progress. Please feel free to contribute to this effort, thank you!''

=== Teaser ===

*The episode begins with a series of cut scenes. Light flashes over [[Saul Tigh]]'s face. He is in a prison cell, his missing eye patched over with a gauze bandage, and has scratched notches into a calendar on the wall. His wife, [[Ellen Tigh]], is having sex with one of the [[Cavil]]s. [[Laura Roslin]] lights a candle and prays to the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#Lords of Kobol|gods]]. [[Galen Tyrol]] and [[Samuel Anders]] are planting a bomb using [[G-4]] and a detonator within a building space.
*[[Kara Thrace]] is inside a neatly decorated room, setting a table.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] tries to strategize a rescue plan with a series of various models of fighters, support vehicles and other civilian ships in the [[Situation Room]]'s plot table, but becomes frustrated and hurls a model across the table.
*Another Cavil walks into Tigh's cell. He walks sits down, wears sunglasses to see in the bright light, and then taunts Tigh about the hash marks that Tigh attempts to hide. Sunglasses-Cavil laughs and comments that every time Tigh is taken out of the cell, the Cylons come in and they change the calendar.
* A copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] walks into the room where Thrace sits at table, carrying her dinner. He sits and prays to [[God (RDM)|"The Heavenly Father"]] for their bounty.
* Meanwhile, Ellen Tigh is straddling another Cavil. Cavil climaxes and, after the deed is done, Ellen begins to walk away from the couch while Cavil laughs in the background.
* Tyrol arms the explosive. As the Cylon [[Heavy Raider]] begins to land, Tyrol and Anders move off to a safe distance from the explosive.
*Thrace coyly asks the Conoy copy for a knife for her steak, but Conoy takes his knife and cuts her steak himself. Thrace thanks him.
*After Ellen Tigh's liaison with her Cavil copy, she asks when will she gets what she asked for, suggesting a previous deal. The Cylon informs her that it should be happening right at that moment. At same time, the Cavil in the cell with Colonel Tigh releases him from prison in a very taunting way; Cavil notes that his case was reviewed by the review committee and "I must say there was great disappointment on the review committee", then leaves with the cell door open. At Cavil's urging, Tigh exits his cell for "bureaucracy must be served" before his release in the form of paperwork.
* Tigh leaves the [[New Caprica Detention Center]], he prison and his wife meets him at the gate. She notes the eye-patch of medical gauze and asks what they did to him during his imprisonment, however he just wants to leave.
[[Image:301 a calm quiet dinner with Kara Thrace.jpg|thumb|Kara Thrace enjoys her dinner (Teaser)]]
*A group of '[[Humanoid Cylon|skinjobs]]' including at least 3 [[Number Eight|Eight]]s, 3 [[Number Six|Six]]es, and 2 [[Number Five|Five]]s approach the Heavy Raider as several '[[Cylon Centurion|chromejobs]]' exit it. Tyrol repeatedly hits the remote control until the bomb goes off. The explosion is witnessed by both the Tighs, and by the Conoy copy with Thrace from their apartment. He returns to the table, pushes his knife away from Thrace.
*As he comments on how beautiful she is, Thrace stabs him in the neck with metal chopsticks. As he dies (while Thrace repeatedly stabs his chest for good measure), he tells Thrace that he will see her soon. She tells him to take his time. Then, after wiping her hand on the carpet, she returns to the table and calmly resumes eating dinner.

=== Act 1 ===

* [[Laura Roslin]], still a school teacher, is writing an entry on the 134th day of the [[Cylon Occupation Authority|Cylon occupation]] of New Caprica. Coincidentally, that day falls on [[Mars Day]], named after the Colonial God of War. She notes that the New Capricans have not had contact with ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' for four months, noting that she refuses to believe that Admiral [[William Adama]] would abandon them. She then notes about the insurgency, saying that they are striking whenever and wherever possible, believing them critical to morale despite the futility of the gestures at times.
* She notes that for the insurgency to have a "more meaningful impact", they need to strike a high profile target, since killing the Cylons is [[Resurrection (RDM)|nearly impossible]].
* Roslin then speaks of the [[Cylon Occupation Authority]]'s continued exertion of complete control over [[New Caprica City]] and are at their complete mercy. She notes that the [[Government of the Twelve Colonies|government]] under President [[Gaius Baltar]] functions in name only.
* The members of the Occupation Authority discuss their current situation, with [[Cavil]] leading the session, recapping why the Cylons are on New Caprica in the first place. A Cavil mentions that they need to tighten their control on the human population, suggesting that they execute Baltar. [[Caprica Six]] is disgusted at this and mentions that those who want to kill Baltar will have to deal with her. A [[Number Five]] diffuses the issue, saying that it would have no effect, since the Colonials would only relish his death in light of Baltar's cooperation with the occupation. The Cavils suggest rounding up insurgents and executing them publicly, which seems to be a course of action that most of the models agree to, except Caprica and [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]].
[[Image:301 gloves are coming off.jpg|thumb|[[Cavil]] (left) proposes reducing the population down to a "more manageable size".]]
* After the group leaves, [[Number Three]] asks Caprica if her love of Baltar is worth the loss they may incur over their experiment. Caprica replies that, "If you ever experienced love, you wouldn't have to ask."
* Roslin writes of the [[New Caprica Police]] in her journal, finding the prospect of humans misguided into believing that they're taking the role of policing New Caprica out Cylon hands nauseating. She notes that the names of the police officers are deeply hidden, but are likely people that "we least expect". Roslin notes that hundreds of people have been rounded up by the Cylons, held in detention, tortured, and even killed or disappeared.
* Roslin notes the help of a source within Baltar's administration that has been helping them in recent weeks. They do not know who this person is, but the person is responsible for dropping important documents. The source communicates through the use of a signal, tipping over a yellow food bowl belonging to a dog named [[Jake the dog|Jake]]. In the most recent drop, Tyrol retrieves security plans for the New Caprica Police graduation ceremony.
* Tyrol tells [[Cally Tyrol|Cally]], his wife, who is taking care of their baby, [[Nicholas Tyrol]], that he will be back in a few hours. She voices her concern about there being a day when he doesn't come back, inferring that he may be killed, captured, or disappeared, and that Nick will never know his father. In an attempt to assuage her fears, he promises to be back in a couple hours, then leaves.
* Tigh meets up with Tyrol and Anders in an underground bunker, which serves as the headquarters for the resistance. Using a shovel as a cane, he sits down as they share a brief drink of alcohol. Tigh explains about how the Cylons ripped out his eye and showed it to him, recalling that it looked like a "hardboiled egg". Tigh asks after the explosion earlier, congratulating them on their successful attack.
* Tyrol reveals that their next target will be the [[New Caprica Police Academy]] during the graduating ceremony. Noting their new source within the Baltar administration, Tyrol comments on the security plans and the fact that Baltar will also be present. Tigh relishes the opportunity to kill Baltar. Tyrol notes that it will be difficult avoiding human casualties, a point that Tigh does not care about, since he believes it's time to send a message that if any human works for the Cylons, they're a target as well.
* Tigh then asks about the [[wireless]]. Tyrol ruefully notes that the Cylons have jammed every signal, making it impossible to contact anyone in orbit, but they still attempt to contact the [[Raptor]] in orbit. Tyrol notes that he's asked their source what the weakest jamming frequencies are, but they have yet to receive anything. Anders doesn't believe there is a Raptor, which gets a rise out of Tigh, who believes that Adama will never leave them to the Cylons, and the Raptor sitting out there and waiting for their wireless transmission was part of the plan in the event anything happened.
* Anders replies that Adama left him to the Cylons, noting that were it not for his wife, he'd be dead a long time ago.
* Tigh asks after Thrace, but Anders hasn't heard anything in the four months since she was taken.
* In the apartment prison, a newly-resurrected Conoy enters, announcing: "Hi, honey, I'm home." He notes that she's killed him five times, indicating that her efforts are futile. He tries to convince her that he wants to help her see "the truth of your life, the reason why you suffered and you struggled for so long". She replies that he's right and thanks him for putting up with her, however Conoy sees through the ruse and asks her to put down her knife, which she was prepared to stab him with. She drops the knife. He replies that he's a patient man and he needs more time. She scoffs at this, saying that there will never be a relationship between them.
* Conoy is convinced that they will have a relationship. He describes it to her, saying that she'll hold him in her arms, embrace him, and tell him that she loves him. He claims to have seen it. She believes him to be insane. Conoy replies that "to know the face of [[God (RDM)|God]] is to know madness".
* He tells her he's going to bed and asks her to go to bed with him. He attempts to kiss her, but she turns away.
* Ruefully, Conoy adds that she'll spend the night with him either way, referring to the corpse his previous body that she killed earlier.
* After he bids her good night, Thrace runs out of the apartment and into a hallway. The end of the hallways is gated like a prison cell. She runs up to it and begins to rattle the bars, scream that she wants to be let out and doesn't belong there.

=== Act 2 and beyond ===

* In the remaining spaceborne [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], a training operation lead by ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> [[CAG]], Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]], is underway. Members of the [[Raptor]] squadron, the [[Snowbird Squadron|Snowbirds]], lead by Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]] have a hard time keeping formation.
* Meanwhile, Admiral [[William Adama]] hears the [[wireless]] chatter from the exercise, which is pumped in through the ship's speakers. He makes his rounds on ''Galactica'', first in the [[hangar bay]] picking up parts, and walking through ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> pitch-black hallways with a flashlight as he's reading papers.
* Captain [[Karl Agathon]], ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> executive officer, orders the Raptors to commence with the training exercise. During the exercise, the Snowbirds's deployed drones fly every which way. Katraine aborts the mission. Agathon acknowledges this and orders the ships to return because they are low on fuel.
* Adama, having just entered the CIC, belays the order and tells Agathon to send out a tanker bird for them to practice in-flight fueling. Then he wants them to continue the mission. Agathon tells Adama that they've done the exercise sixteen times; Adama then replies that the next will make seventeen. Agathon agrees, knowing the point Adama was making with the reply.
* On ''[[Pegasus (TOS)|Pegasus]]'', a topless, hanging-bellied [[Lee Adama]] overhears Agathon's order that they recover the drones and the dispatch of a tanker bird. He waddles to the phone. He orders them to get the admiral on the line.
* In ''Pegasus'''s [[CIC]], Lee engages in a heated discussion with Adama over the training efforts, however the conversation is cut off when Katraine reports a collision of two [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] piloted by [[Bingo]] and [[Wally]]. She requests, and is granted, immediate landing for the two Vipers. Admiral Adama throws the phone across the table.

*Every day a Raptor jumps in and listens for a wireless broadcast. With the list of jamming frequencies provided by Gaeta, Tyrol manages to contact the Colonial Fleet.
[[image:Hope.jpg|300px|right]]
* Now having made contact with the Galatica and feeling that rescue may be near Tyrol has second thoughts that a suicide bombing may not be the best course of action, but Tigh disagrees and says to only call off the attack if Baltar will not be attending.
*Baltar decides not to attend the graduation ceremony. Gaeta is unable to signal Tyrol in time of this last-minute change.
*With little left to lose, [[Duck]] prays to the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]]. He has placed several packs of explosives around his waist, wiring himself as a living bomb. He dons his [[NCP]] uniform to attend their graduation ceremony, intending to kill [[Gaius Baltar]] and as many traitors and Cylons as he can.
*As a [[Number Three]] presents Duck with his graduation certificate he detonates the explosives attached to his body, his last words being "I'll see you soon [[Nora]]."

== Notes ==

=== Alternate story lines and ideas ===

*According to the [[Podcast:Collaborators|podcast]] for "[[Collaborators]]", [[James Lyman]] was going to be the suicide bomber, and not [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]].
*[[Ronald D. Moore]] says in the podcast that alternate scripts included members of the [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance]] kidnapping humanoid Cylons and keeping them alive in a dungeon. The remaining Cylons would become more apprehensive with each mysterious disappearance.
*Moreover, Clellan's and Lyman's roles were reversed during the planning of the arc. However, [[Aaron Douglas]] pointed out that Lyman has previously been portrayed as a weak person ([[Valley of Darkness]]) and that it would thus make more sense to make him the collaborator ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion Season Three]])
*A scene showing how Tigh loses his eye was shot, with a [[Number Five]] poking the camera's lens in a point-of-view shot. However, it was felt that it would be too weird and stylized for the show, and that Tigh only telling about it would be more effective (Season 3 Companion).

=== Story and Events ===

*Unlike episodes of [[Season 2 (2005-06)|Season 2]], the intro to this episode does not give the [[survivor count]]. The population whiteboard present in Season 1 & 2 has been replaced by Baltar's presidential portrait, which is later hung over the bathroom at the suggestion of [[Tory Foster]] in "[[Hero]]".
*The episode opens on the 134th day since the Cylon occupation.
*In her journal, Roslin notes that it is "[[Mars Day]]", which is the Roman name for Ares. This is at least the second time that the Roman names for the Greek pantheon have been used.
*Crew changes in the year after settlement glimpsed in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" are confirmed here: Captain [[Karl Agathon]] is serving as ''Galactica'''s executive officer (XO), with [[Louanne Katraine]] as ''Galactica''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s [[CAG]]. [[Anastasia Dualla]], shown for the first time with lieutenant rank insignia, is serving as XO on ''Pegasus''.
* [[Lee Adama]] has gained roughly 40 pounds since the the Fleet found New Caprica. His father claims that he is soft, both physically and mentally.
* [[Caprica-Six]] seems to keep [[Gaius Baltar]] company on ''Colonial One'' in an unofficial capacity.
* Eight Cylons are visible at the graduation ceremony:
**To the right of the podium: an Eight, a Five, a Six, and a Cavil.
**To the left of the podium: A Six, an Eight, and another Six.
**Speaking: a Three.
*Duck's rank in the [[New Caprica Police]] is captain. After the bombing, [[James Lyman|Jammer]] appears to fill this role.

=== Initial American broadcast ===

*The episode started off with a warning indicating "'''Mature Subject Matter'''" during its initial Sci-Fi Channel United States debut. The following episode, "[[Precipice]]", also reiterated this warning.
*"Occupation" and "Precipice" was edited as one 2-hr episode with only one intro. However, in the podcast, [[Ronald D. Moore]] indicates the "beginning" of "Precipice". On the [[Battlestar Galactica - Season 3 (Region 1 DVD)|Region 1 DVD]] set for [[Season 3 (2006-07)|Season 3]], the episodes are presented as two distinct episodes.
*[[Kandyse McClure]]'s first name is spelled in the [[opening credits]] as "Candice". Though she has been credited under this name in other projects, this is the first and, so far, only time it has been used for the show. As she [[Kandyse McClure#Notes|explains later on]], "Candice" is the true spelling of her first name, and the Kandyse spelling is "kind of a joke". However, she had it reversed, seeing as she did not want to confuse people. The results of this reversal can be seen on the Region 1 DVD set for Season 3 in the opening credits to this episode, where the spelling is corrected to "Kandyse McClure".

=== Production ===

*The apartment room that Leoben holds [[Kara Thrace]] captive in from this episode through "[[Exodus, Part II]]" is a redress of the set used for Starbuck's old apartment in [[Delphi]] seen in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".

=== Awards ===

*"Occupation/[[Precipice]]" was awarded the [[Awards and Honors|IGN.com Editor's choice award]], following a review in which it received a rating of 10/10.
*This episode was nominated for "Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series" in the 2007 Emmys.

== Analysis ==
* Prior to the Cylon occupation, the population of New Caprica City was 39,192. Since that time, there have been at least 44 deaths and 1 birth:
**[[Nicholas Tyrol]] was born sometime between "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" and ''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]''.
**[[Charles Longo]] was killed by the Cylons for hiding weapons in his tent ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance#Episode 1|The Resistance: Episode 1]]).
**There were 10 deaths in ''Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance'' due to the temple raid, including [[Nora]].
**There were at least 33 deaths in this episode due to the suicide bombing at the NCP graduation ceremony. The figure was supplied by the Cylon leadership, and it is unknown whether they included attacker [[Tucker Clellan]] among the casualties.
* It is later noted by [[Cassidy]] in [[Gaius Baltar]]'s trial during "[[Crossroads, Part I]]" that 5,197 were killed during the Cylon occupation, her inference being that the figure of the number of deaths occurred on New Caprica. Thus the total number of people on New Caprica before the [[Battle of New Caprica]] and the [[Exodus, Part II|succeeding exodus]] was 33,995.
* Several New Capricans appear to have sores or lesions on their faces.
* Near the end of the episode, as [[Felix Gaeta]] races to inform the resistance that Baltar won't be attending the graduation, a P.A. system can be heard advertising the [[New Caprica Medical Center]], staffed by "a crack team of human and Cylon physicians". Among the crack team is Doctor [[Cottle]], as later seen in "[[Exodus, Part I]]".
**This may explain Anders's recovery from his pneumonia, seen in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
* During the episode, Conoy mentions that Kara Thrace has succeeded in killing Conoy five times (including the killing that was shown).
* Conoy is obsessed with a future he has "seen" in which Thrace falls in love with him. He repeatedly tells Thrace that she only needs more time.
* As [[Occupation#Notes|noted above]], the apartment Leoben keeps Thrace captive in is identical to the one she used to live in on Caprica. It is quite possible that the New Caprica complex was designed to resemble her old residence possibly to further Conoy's mind games with her by placing her in a familiar environment.
* There doesn't seem to be any civilian government supervising the spacebound ships. There appears to be a state of martial law throughout the space-bound Fleet, as Admiral [[William Adama]] is ''de facto'' leader of this fleet.
* The Cylons have either built a resurrection facility on New Caprica or positioned a [[Resurrection Ship]] near enough to the planet for downloads to take place. However, no Resurrection Ship is seen in orbit when the basestars are shown.
* Only two basestars are seen on screen, yet five are reported back to the Fleet. Although it's likely that they are behind the planet or in another part of the nebula.
* Number Three allows herself to be seen openly among the Colonials. Presumably the cover of infiltrator [[D'anna Biers]] was compromised with the return of [[Samuel Anders]] the previous year.
*Although it was widely speculated that [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]] may be a humanoid Cylon, due to his pessimistic attitude ("[[Litmus]]", "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]") and unlikely survival during the events of "[[Valley of Darkness]]", the events of this episode and comments by Ronald D. Moore seem to preclude the possibility.
**In ''Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance'', a copy of [[Number Five]] refers to Lyman as a human.
**In this episode, it is seen that Lyman has joined the [[New Caprica Police]], an exclusively human organization.
**While Lyman's survival of the suicide bombing may seem suspect to some viewers, Moore states that an unfilmed scene would show him waking up under the bodies, and having to move body parts out of the way as he extricated himself from the carnage ([[Podcast:Precipice|"Precipice", podcast]]).

== Questions ==

* How did Anders manage to recover from his pneumonia without the medical supplies Thrace was seeking in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II"? ([[Crossroads, Part II|Possible Answer]])
* Have Helo and Kat been given the promotions in rank that their new posts would warrant? ([[Precipice|Answer: Kat]], [[A Measure of Salvation|Answer: Helo]])
* When did Number Three reveal her Cylon nature?
* Why isn't Leoben Conoy involved in the decisions of the [[Cylon Occupation Authority]]?
* Where is Doctor [[Cottle]]? ([[Exodus, Part I|Answer]])
* Where is [[Tom Zarek]]? ([[Precipice|Answer]])
* What of "[[Hera|Isis]]" and [[Maya]]? ([[Exodus, Part II|Answer]])
* Who is ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> CAG?
* Are the Cylons continuing to pursue the Fleet? If not, why not?
* Does anyone know of [[Felix Gaeta]]'s feeding of information to the resistance? ([[Taking a Break From All Your Worries|Answer]])
* What events lead to [[Sharon Agathon]]'s change in behavior over time? How have she and William Adama been able to develop a friendly relationship?
* Where/How did the new Capricans obtain steak?

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*{{audio|301 delusional machines.mp3|''During a meeting about the insurgency:''}}
: '''First [[Cavil]]:''' Let's review why we're here, shall we? We're supposed to bring the word of "God" to the people, right?
: '''Second Cavil:''' To save humanity from damnation by bringing the love of "God" to these poor benighted people.
: '''[[Caprica-Six]]:''' We're here because the majority of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] felt the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|slaughter of mankind]] had been a mistake.
:'''[[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]''': We're here to find a new way to live in peace, as [[God (RDM)|God]] wants us to live!
:'''Second Cavil''': And it's been a fun ride, so far. But I want to clarify our objectives. If we're bringing the word of "God," then it follows we should employ any means necessary to so, any means.
:'''First Cavil''': Yes. Fear is a key article of faith, as I understand it. So, perhaps it's time to instill a little more fear into the people's hearts and minds. Let's, uh, let's execute [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]].
:'''Gaius Baltar''': What, '''''what'''''?
:'''Caprica-Six''': That's not gonna happen.
:'''Cavil:''' Just because he's your favorite toy shouldn't be allowed to interfere with the larger issues here.
:'''Gaius Baltar''': I think I have cooperated—
:'''Caprica-Six''': Gaius is with me. Anyone who wants to challenge that will have to deal with me.
:'''First [[Number Five]]''': No, it doesn't matter. If we'd killed him in the beginning, it might have worked.
:'''Second Five''': But now most humans think of him as a traitor and would actually cheer his death.
:'''First Cavil''': Fine, fine. We don't kill Baltar. We round up the leaders of the insurgency and we execute them, publicly. We round up, at random, groups off the street and we execute them, publicly.
:'''Second Cavil''': Send a message that the gloves are coming ''off''. The insurgency stops ''now'', or else we'll start reducing the human population to a... more manageable size, I don't know, say... less than a thousand.
:'''Boomer''': We need to stop being butchers!
:'''Caprica-Six''': The entire point of coming here was to start a new way of life, to push ''past'' the conflict that separated us from humans for so long.
:'''Cavil''': And what has it gotten ''us''? It's not like they welcomed us with, with... Oh, frak it, never mind. You're all living in a fantasy world. Consider the irony in that! (laughing) Delusional machines! What's the universe gonna come up with next?

*''After hearing that contact had been established with New Caprica:''
:'''[[William Adama]]''': It's gonna be okay. It's really gonna be okay.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Henderson Tyrol|Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Rick Worthy]] as [[Simon]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil]]
*[[Erica Cerra]] as [[Maya]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Christian Tessier]] as [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]]
*[[Brad Dryborough]] as Lt. [[Hoshi]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Madeline Parker]] as [[Kacey]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]]
*[[Mylène Dinh-Robic]] as Officer #1
*[[Ryan McDonell]] as [[Eammon Pike|Eammon "Gonzo" Pike]] (credited as Pilot #3)
*[[Byron Lawson]] as Pilot #4
*[[Colin Lawrence]] as [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]
*[[Larissa Stadnichuk]] as Suicide bomber

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Okkupation]]
[[zh:占领]]

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I/Archive 1

2008-06-15T08:45:08Z

Bgii 2000:

Since, according to IMDB, Dean Stockwell has been credited with the role of Brother Cavell (not Cavill) ... should this page be modified? Apparently, one more cylon has been identified.

:Not sure. All the ep guide says is that Cavell is a Humano-Cylon priest. IS it possible that the spoiler is wrong and he's really just a religious leader (possibly replacing Elosha) who is promoting a Human-Cylon peace? --Ltcrashdown 22:19, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I've been spoiled, and can tell you that he is indeed a Cylon (unless he has an identical twin brother). [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:49, 4 March 2006 (EST)
:::Ummm... dude, thanks for spoiling me. Grrr.... --[[User:stealthboy|stealthboy]] 10:38, 6 March 2006 (EST)

Found some pics - Spoiler Warning - http://pics.livejournal.com/ravenclawdrew/gallery/0000wa1h - [[User:Lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 12:30, 11 February, 2006

::Yeah I saw those too; it's what I based the info about Baltar running for President on (look really hard).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:40, 10 February 2006 (EST)

I am starting to think these spoilers were to throw us off the track...

== Editing ==
Corrected a number of spelling mistakes - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 3rd March, 2006

Note to everyone: I tend to make a lot of spelling mistakes because I'm hurrying, and worrying about spelling makes it harder for me to concentrate and focus on the information, and slows me down alot; I usually try to proofread my stuff when I'm "done" with an episode (after most of the notes and stuff around done) but I still tend to leave a typo here or there. I appreciate the spelling help. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:55, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Merovingian, don't worry, the quality article makes "up" for it ;) i do the same thing as well when it comes to writing up an article - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 3rd March, 2006

:Yeah I usually only worry about spelling around Sundays, by which time we're more or less done. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)

::I think this is the right approach. We obviously want the capsule summaries sooner rather than later. And we don't criticise authors' typos as English may not be their native tongue and in any event if we waited for perfection we'd still be on the miniseries. [[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 08:14, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Count Discussion 1 ==
How many Raptors are lost in the misjump into the mountain? One or two? I only thought it was on when I watched the episode and edited the summary to reflect this, but it seems '''everybody''' else seems to think it was a pair. Starbuck did say two names, but I interpreted those to be the pilot and ECO of a single Raptor. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 01:29, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:Helo says they have 17 Raptors left. They already lost Racetrack's. They then say two names, and Starbuck says "we lost Raptore six twelve"; Now, this sounds confusing, but I don't think she said "Raptor 612"; I think she said "Raptors 6, 12" out of 20. Plus she did say two names; in addition, it wasn't just pilots but also marines, so one name wouldn't make as much sense. Although a little fuzzy, this still fits the "19-17=2" thing, instead of us jumping to believe that another Raptor got lost in a completely undocumented event. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 01:36, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::I remember hearing Helo say they had seventeen left after (I thought) a single one had been lost in the mountain and thinking nineteen was an odd starting number, having missed the earlier reference to the entire complement being twenty. If the starting force did indeed number twenty, it seems clear two Raptors were indeed lost in the final jump and I was mistaken. I will point out, however, that Starbuck would be much less likely to know the names of marines lost on board a ship, while it's almost a given she would know who the flight crew were. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 02:01, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:::Helo actually says, "Wait a minute, we lost ''another'' Raptor. I'm only reading 17 ''out there''." His DRADIS screen doesn't display the Raptor they are in - that behavior was shown clearly in Scattered. Galactica's DRADIS was completely empty when they were seperated from the fleet, it didn't show Galactica itself as a single contact. So, clearly, Helo is talking about there being 17 other Raptors, in addition to the one he, Starbuck, and Sharon are in. In addition, Starbuck clearly says Raptor, not Raptors, and it is extremely unlikely that she would verbally separate a list of two numbers with an implied comma rather than the word 'and'. Not to mention, Raptors are commonly referred to by their 3-digit flight number. So only two Raptors were lost - Racetrack's miscalculated jump, and Raptor 612, which jumped into the mountain. Eighteen landed safely on Caprica. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 09:00, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::::Xenophon is right on the money. Oh well, this means I don't have to right all that. I suddenly want to read "The Ten Thousand" again... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:24, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::::And just to chime in, if there were only 17 raptors, then Kara would have had to scrub the mission, so 18 did land on Caprica. --[[User:LindyChef|LindyChef]] 23:05, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Count Discussion 2 ==
Questions:
#Did we get the 20 raptor count in dialog?
#We lost Racetrack on the first jump and Raptor 612 on the last. The SAR team had 17 raptors after that, so if they started off with 20, they lost one other in between. Only Raptor 612 got up close and personal with the mountain. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:51, 4 March 2006 (CST)
:No, Farago. She said "RaptorS 6, 12". They lost 2 in the final jump, 1 when Racetrack got lost, and none in between. Starbuck lists off two names. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:12, 4 March 2006 (CST)
:Counting the one they're in (Helo said something like "there are only 17 Raptors '''out there'''") it would have to be Raptor 612 (they've paused like that before in dialogue "Raptor 6..12").
*17 other survivors
*Starbucks (one with Heavy Raider brain)
*612 (in mountain)
*Racetracks
=20
::Helo is in Starbuck's Raptor, which would not show up on his screen. The correct count is Helo/Starbuck's ship, + Racetrack, + Raptor 612 (lost in the mountain), + 17 others = 20. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 09:28, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::Yes, but are we ''certain'' there were 20 raptors to begin with? It's not given in dialog, and I haven't been able to get a good count from any CGI shots. According to sadgeezer, these are the pilots that checkin with Starbuck over wireless:
:::#Headcase
:::#Swordsman
:::#Shoestrap
:::#Scumball
:::#Milko
:::#Skylar
:::#Ronin
:::#Brake
:::#Boulion
:::#Steaker
:::#Hamster
:::#Bo
:::#Chaser
:::#Godama
:::#Charlieman
:::#Starcloud
:::#Racetrack
:::#Callon
:::#...and Starbuck.
:::I suppose the raptor piloted by "Toughguy" and "Carousel" makes 20. I also hear an unintellgable name between "Swordsman" and "Shoestrap", but I can't actually hear "Toughguy" either - they might be the same person. I think it's worth noting that [[Stubbs]] isn't on this list - this reinforces my opinion that he was the pilot killed in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I", but I suppose it's possible that he's still around and just opted out of the mission.
:::--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:00, 5 March 2006 (CST)

::::I'm confused - I don't remember hearing that many checkins. The only time I recall them doing it, I heard at most a couple followed by Racetrack and then they were done. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 22:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)

The checkins were in the background while Helo talked to Sharon. Additionally, they did only lose one Raptor (Helo continually refers to losing one Raptor, in the singular) and his exact line was "they jumped inside the mountain". [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 12:38, 7 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Count Discussion 3 ==
At 33:40, or so, there is a CG shot clearly showing a total of 20 Raptors. Since this takes place ''after'' Racetrack is left behind, this puts the total original count at ''21''. A continuity error perhaps? Then again this works with the two-Raptors-in-the-mountain theory. 17+1(Starbuck)+2(crashed)+1(racetrack) = 21 -[[User:Bgii 2000|Bgii 2000]] 08:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== Raptor Reconciliation ==
In Scar the mining ship was mining metals for ''Pegasus's'' production teams to construct new vipers. Isn't it possible they produced some raptors as well?
:It might be, but just like an automobile factory, it would probably take substantial effort and material to re-tool the ''Pegasus'' viper factory for raptors. Switching to another variety of the same vehicle (Corollas to Camrys, or Mark II vipers to Mark VII) takes some doing; this would be a much bigger change. [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 5 March 2006 6:08 p.m. (EST).
::Well, the Pegasus has the capablility to build one craft in it's air wing. Logically, she should also be able to produce other ones. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:59, 5 March 2006 (CST)
::Actually many automobile assembly lines are being designed now to allow for multiple models to be built at the same time. For example, BMW's new plant in Leipzig can produce all 10 BMW models on the same assembly line. --[[User:LindyChef|LindyChef]] 22:59, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Jump and FTL Physics ==
BTW: in case anyone was wondering later; in the podcast, RDM confirms that by "jumped into the mountain" he doesn't mean "they jumped close to it and thus crashed", he means, exactly like a ''Star Trek'' transporter accident, that they materialized from the Jump "in solid rock" like a transporter accident. Cool. (It's what I assumed too).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:39, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::If the FTL drive works by opening up a wormhole then it seems like jumping into a mountain would create a sphear of rock that would be 'jumped' into space while the raptor swapped places with it. Likewise a puff of air would be seen if you were observing the spot from which the the raptors made their final jump into the atomosphere. If that was the case it would be possible for the unfortunate raptor to just jump itself out of the mountain. On the other hand perhaps opening up the wormhole w/one end in the mountain perhaps the raptor collided with the rock that was being 'jumped out' leaving its transponder intact inside the mountain but the raptor & its crew would be smashed up. If this is the case FTL's could make useful mining tools. If some valuable ore is buried at the center of a planet or star just use an FTL to open up a wormhole and let it come out. Say your water tanks are empty. Just open up a wormhole inside the tank with the other end in some fresh water lake & the water will pour out and fill you up. -- ''attributed to'' [[User:Boonton|Boonton]] ''@ unknown time''

:::Oh man, you're getting into quantum physics, and while that makes for a fascinating discussion (appropriate for here, if you wish), I'll prefix this by saying that RDM has stated, several times, that he's not one for techno-babble-geekiness. Let's just figure the folks in that Raptor got "rocked" (sorry, bad pun... I could have said "stoned") and won't be seen again. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:49, 6 March 2006 (CST)

:::Fair point. I love that RDM has kept away from geeking the series up with psuedo-science but the mind can't help but wonder about these things. --[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 14:09, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Events / Politics / Theology Discussion ==
Hey all, I find it interesting that the discussion automatically focuses on counting Raptors and figuring out how the technical things work. Can we perhaps add some discussion about the actual events of the show, and the characters? To me, the draw of the show is the fact that it's actually a character drama that just happens to be set in space... Ron Moore has said many times that he doesn't feel the need to explain how everything works, and I think that goes a long way in making it a successful show. The last time I really saw that was the original Star Wars. With no explaination of all the sci-fi tech, you more readily accepted "their" world and just went along for the ride, instead of getting caught up on minutia of how FTL works, etc. Thoughts? Or am I just out there...? -- [[User:stealthboy|stealthboy]] 10:23, 7 March 2006 (EST)

:: I agree, this episode put forth some interesting ideas about religion. Brother Cavell, who I would expect to be putting forth a stelth version of the cyclon religion, more or less ripped apart the idea of praying to the gods for help. Is he trying to weaken the colonials faith in polytheism in order to pave the ground for a cyclon conversion effort to monotheism?

::In politics I found the camapaign by Baltar to settle the planet to be odd. How many modern people could be dropped off in untamed wilderness and make a settlement from scratch? I for one would rather have the comfort of a modern ship to live in until we find a world pre-populated with friendly people.

::Finally the rescue mission struck me as odd as well. This seems like an incredibly risky mission to send the best of the best on in order to achieve the slim hope of recuing a handful of people. Will Galactica and the fleet just wait around for them to return? What if they all get killed, how long can the fleet wait to see if this gamble pays off?--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 14:32, 7 March 2006 (CST)
:::About Brother Cavel, he criticized prayer - not the Lords of Kobol. He said the problem was with Tyrol, not them.
:::About the campaign, the people voted based on hope not reality. They're not thinking of how hard it will be down there, and won't until they actually have to make a living.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:00, 8 March 2006 (EST)

== Music? ==
Does anyone know the music playing the the background from the first few scenes of this episode? --[[User:PioneerCreative|PioneerCreative]] 23:33, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Earth? ==
Is the planet in this episode [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]? -- [[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 09:06, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:No. The leaders know roughly where Earth is, and it's very far away from their current position. [[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 09:13, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::Not to mention that Earth is neither barren nor hidden in a nebula. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:47, 4 March 2006 (EST)
:::Not now, at least. [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 15:30, 4 March 2006 (EST)

== Noodles Note==
I think the noodles note on this went on far longer than it should; just leave it with "this is something his father did too": pointing out all of the superstitions and stuff just ran on--->unless RDM himself mentions this kind of thing in the podcast, she should not use it here; RDM indeed did not mention it in the podcast for LDYB part I. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:05, 5 March 2006 (CST)

== Spoilers - Right or Wrong? ==
So were the spoilers that were posted before the episode aired a red herring? The planet was not offered by the cyclons as part of a peace initive. Since one of the selling points of this planet is that it is supposedly unlikely to be found by the cyclons wouldn't any of them showing up in part 2 basically spoil the whole idea? -- ''attributed to'' [[User:Boonton|Boonton]] ''@ unknown time''

== Racetrack's jump — a Cylon plot? ==
From the topic page: ''"On the very first jump out of the series of ten, Racetrack's Raptor jumps to the wrong set of coordinates"''.

OK, that could be all there is to it... '''OR''' (entering [[Wikipedia:Tin-foil hat|tinfoil-hat]] mode) it could all have been a Cylon plot. Consider: a Cylon navigation computer, interfacing to a Cylon, calculates the jump coordinates for all 20 Raptors. Isn't it at least conceivable the nav computer deliberately gave out misleading coordinates, thus sending one of the Raptors near to the planet now known as New Caprica?

# Suppose the heavy raider computer "knew" of New Caprica? Perhaps it had been there on some previous survey mission or maybe the planet was already known by the Cylons.
# The nav computer might have had a conversation with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|''Caprica''-Sharon]] when she interfaced to it, possibly even below Sharon's level of consciousness. (Hence Sharon's "foreboding"...a little reminscent of Walter Pidgeon in ''Forbidden Planet'').
# The Cylons appear not to want to extinguish the rest of humanity, at least not now. Penning humans up in a known location would give Cylons time to figure out what they '''do''' want to do with the remnants of humanity. No guarantee humans finding the planet would result in them staying there, but no harm in trying.
# At this stage of the series, Caprica-Sharon isn't too fond of any humans and may have dredged up New Caprica from some long-forgotten database (if the navigation computer didn't already know).
# What kind of error would lead to such a misjump anyway? If this happened even once every ten thousand jumps that would be way too often for the colonial fleet. There must be plenty of safeguards -- at least as much as today's Internet, say -- to ensure the coordinates received match the ones transmitted. Ah, but there's no error involved if the wrong coordinates are deliberately sent in the first place.

I'm not sure I subscribe to this, but am offering it as at least a hypothesis worthy of consideration.

A first reaction to this idea might be to recall the explanation offered by the Cylons when they came for Baltar's surrender: "We Cylons found an atomic explosion signature". That would seem to imply everything happened by chance. Maybe. Maybe not. Space is vast. I mean really big. Coming upon a detectable trace of a puny atomic explosion after a years' worth of dispersion is almost laughably unlikely. Possibly this was just an excuse offered to hide the ''real'' explanation: a homing beacon built by a [[Cylon agent]], or perhaps an exhaustive Cylon search of all known habitable planets. There are lots of reasons for Cylons to lie.

I find this explanation more believable than the ''triple'' coincidence of the wrong jump coordinates, then two races finding the same remote, "hidden" planet (they should have called it [[Wikipedia:Gondolin|Gondolin]]) within a year of one another. One event: coincidence. Two events: suspicious. Three events: enemy action. --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 19:43, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:I think you are grasping at straws with these hypothesese. We need more understanding onscreen about the working of cylon systems before we can say that such internal thinking is happening. In any case, it doesn't seem plausible that such detailed planning is going on in lower subsystems. The error that caused the misjump wasn't a typical FTL error, but an error caused by forcing the raptor to jump a distance by far greater than it was initially designed to jump, let's say for example 10 times. Forcing a system to exceed its original limitations will most certainly cause errors to occur. Remember, their success rate was 18 successful raptors out of 20, only 90%. The only coinsodence that truly is a coincidence is finding the planet in the first place, but if you've watched enough movies and shows, coincidences are part of fictional programming and should be expected. And yes, space is vast, but that nuclear explosion was a big explosion and today we are now detecting Brown Dwarfs (sub-stars) now that don't even have nuclear reactions going with todays telescopes. So far the Cylons to detect a nuclear explosion from 1 light year out seems fairly reasonable. They didn't see the planet, they saw the radiation produced by the explosion traveling at the speed of light to the location their search party was at. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 08:53, 17 March 2006 (MST)

: <font style="color: #d1d0a5;">Why is chance and luck (or, good fortune) so hard to believe? And what are these "triple coincidences" of which you speak? There ''are'' such things as "benevolent accidents" or "chance encounters", wherein a number gets transposed and it results in something completely different than what you expected. Take something as innocuous as a phone number –such as 555-2435. You transpose the number to 555-2345, and dial. Are you going to get the person or party you expected? No. But hey, you might stumble upon someone ''else'' that you didn't expect, and find out that that number belongs to a Chinese restaurant (you were expecting a Pizza joint), or a bank, or ... maybe a hot-sounding chick. Who knows? It happens all the time.

:Granted, the infinite vastness of space makes this event '''''extremely''''' far-fetched. It would have been far more believeable had Racetrack's Raptor jumped into "no-wheresville", with absolutely nothing around. But this is a Sci-fi drama, and where's the fun in that? Instead, the writers will give luck & chance a bit of a nudge, and have our heroes hit the ball on the first swing. I completely believe that the Cylons didn't know that this planet existed (or if they did, it wasn't on their priority shopping list), and wouldn't have known '''''had not'''''' Gina-Six detonated that nuclear warhead (In the buff, too! Wow, no tan lines!). The Cylons have already admitted that they are particularly attuned to/affected by radiation and thermonuclear events, so it stands to reason that the sensor arrays on their BaseStars would be hyper-sensitive to any thermonuclear events nearby. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 10:09, 17 March 2006 (CST)</font>

''I think you are grasping at straws with these hypothesese.''

I don't get other sources of information outside the show as aired and this Wiki. I'm looking at what we saw onscreen and wondering if there are other things going on besides the obvious. You can say that's too much green eyeshade (which is quite possibly an unfashionable accessory to a tinfoil hat) in this case, but I don't consider it grasping at straws. Please read on.

''The error that caused the misjump wasn't a typical FTL error, but an error caused by forcing the raptor to jump a distance by far greater than it was initially designed to jump, let's say for example 10 times.''

Do you have evidence for this? It's a good thought. In my mind, they were ''given'' the wrong coordinates by the {nav computer / Sharon}. I don't have any evidence for that -- it's just what occurred to me. If there were good evidence this was instead a component failure, then the tinfoil hypothesis loses a lot of backing. But wouldn't such a component failure leave them "Lost in Space" with no idea where they were? How would they then get back? If, instead, they really jumped to the designated (bad) coordinates, at least they'd have a chance of retracing their steps, '''which they did'''. So the evidence, as I see it, is that they were ''given'' the wrong coordinates in the first place. It's a simpler explanation for how they got back.

<font style="color: #d1d0a5;">''it stands to reason that the sensor arrays on their BaseStars would be hyper-sensitive to any thermonuclear events nearby''</font>

After a year it's no longer "nearby". I don't know nuclear physics all that well, but I suspect the volume of the nuke to be around 800 cm^3, from visual inspection of the "device" and a very helpful [[Wikipedia:Nuclear weapon design|Wikipedia article]]. Figuring 10^26 atoms per cm^3 (and this is generous) that means there were about 8*10^28 atoms in the device. Peak fission explosion efficiency is 25%, or 2*10^28 "participating" atoms, and if you build a very good device you'll get 3 neutrons released per atom, or about 6*10^28 neutrons released in a 25%-efficient explosion. That's a lot of neutrons, but they have to fill a sphere of 1 light-year radius, 10^55 cm^3. Their density would be about 6*10^-27, well below the 10^-5 or so typical empty space density. In other words, invisible.

Now that's just the neutrons and doesn't say anything about the X-rays, gamma rays etc. But I have to assume similar logic will lead to similar conclusions. A fixed amount of "evidence" followed by a year of travel in 3 dimensions dilutes the concentration of radiation well below the ambient levels even in empty space. So I don't buy the "it stands to reason" line of reasoning above.

Admittedly you guys may be correct; pehaps the Cylons spoke the truth etc., etc. But that amounts to granting the writers a '''''lot''''' of artistic license. And that's OK if it advances the storyline without screaming '''"writer's block"'''. But you know, the "conspiracy theory" advances the storyline just as well -- without appeal to as much artistic license. --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 18:23, 17 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I/Archive 1

2008-06-15T08:39:25Z

Bgii 2000:

Since, according to IMDB, Dean Stockwell has been credited with the role of Brother Cavell (not Cavill) ... should this page be modified? Apparently, one more cylon has been identified.

:Not sure. All the ep guide says is that Cavell is a Humano-Cylon priest. IS it possible that the spoiler is wrong and he's really just a religious leader (possibly replacing Elosha) who is promoting a Human-Cylon peace? --Ltcrashdown 22:19, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I've been spoiled, and can tell you that he is indeed a Cylon (unless he has an identical twin brother). [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:49, 4 March 2006 (EST)
:::Ummm... dude, thanks for spoiling me. Grrr.... --[[User:stealthboy|stealthboy]] 10:38, 6 March 2006 (EST)

Found some pics - Spoiler Warning - http://pics.livejournal.com/ravenclawdrew/gallery/0000wa1h - [[User:Lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 12:30, 11 February, 2006

::Yeah I saw those too; it's what I based the info about Baltar running for President on (look really hard).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:40, 10 February 2006 (EST)

I am starting to think these spoilers were to throw us off the track...

== Editing ==
Corrected a number of spelling mistakes - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 3rd March, 2006

Note to everyone: I tend to make a lot of spelling mistakes because I'm hurrying, and worrying about spelling makes it harder for me to concentrate and focus on the information, and slows me down alot; I usually try to proofread my stuff when I'm "done" with an episode (after most of the notes and stuff around done) but I still tend to leave a typo here or there. I appreciate the spelling help. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:55, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Merovingian, don't worry, the quality article makes "up" for it ;) i do the same thing as well when it comes to writing up an article - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 3rd March, 2006

:Yeah I usually only worry about spelling around Sundays, by which time we're more or less done. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)

::I think this is the right approach. We obviously want the capsule summaries sooner rather than later. And we don't criticise authors' typos as English may not be their native tongue and in any event if we waited for perfection we'd still be on the miniseries. [[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 08:14, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Count Discussion 1 ==
How many Raptors are lost in the misjump into the mountain? One or two? I only thought it was on when I watched the episode and edited the summary to reflect this, but it seems '''everybody''' else seems to think it was a pair. Starbuck did say two names, but I interpreted those to be the pilot and ECO of a single Raptor. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 01:29, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:Helo says they have 17 Raptors left. They already lost Racetrack's. They then say two names, and Starbuck says "we lost Raptore six twelve"; Now, this sounds confusing, but I don't think she said "Raptor 612"; I think she said "Raptors 6, 12" out of 20. Plus she did say two names; in addition, it wasn't just pilots but also marines, so one name wouldn't make as much sense. Although a little fuzzy, this still fits the "19-17=2" thing, instead of us jumping to believe that another Raptor got lost in a completely undocumented event. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 01:36, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::I remember hearing Helo say they had seventeen left after (I thought) a single one had been lost in the mountain and thinking nineteen was an odd starting number, having missed the earlier reference to the entire complement being twenty. If the starting force did indeed number twenty, it seems clear two Raptors were indeed lost in the final jump and I was mistaken. I will point out, however, that Starbuck would be much less likely to know the names of marines lost on board a ship, while it's almost a given she would know who the flight crew were. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 02:01, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:::Helo actually says, "Wait a minute, we lost ''another'' Raptor. I'm only reading 17 ''out there''." His DRADIS screen doesn't display the Raptor they are in - that behavior was shown clearly in Scattered. Galactica's DRADIS was completely empty when they were seperated from the fleet, it didn't show Galactica itself as a single contact. So, clearly, Helo is talking about there being 17 other Raptors, in addition to the one he, Starbuck, and Sharon are in. In addition, Starbuck clearly says Raptor, not Raptors, and it is extremely unlikely that she would verbally separate a list of two numbers with an implied comma rather than the word 'and'. Not to mention, Raptors are commonly referred to by their 3-digit flight number. So only two Raptors were lost - Racetrack's miscalculated jump, and Raptor 612, which jumped into the mountain. Eighteen landed safely on Caprica. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 09:00, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::::Xenophon is right on the money. Oh well, this means I don't have to right all that. I suddenly want to read "The Ten Thousand" again... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:24, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::::And just to chime in, if there were only 17 raptors, then Kara would have had to scrub the mission, so 18 did land on Caprica. --[[User:LindyChef|LindyChef]] 23:05, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Count Discussion 2 ==
Questions:
#Did we get the 20 raptor count in dialog?
#We lost Racetrack on the first jump and Raptor 612 on the last. The SAR team had 17 raptors after that, so if they started off with 20, they lost one other in between. Only Raptor 612 got up close and personal with the mountain. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:51, 4 March 2006 (CST)
:No, Farago. She said "RaptorS 6, 12". They lost 2 in the final jump, 1 when Racetrack got lost, and none in between. Starbuck lists off two names. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:12, 4 March 2006 (CST)
:Counting the one they're in (Helo said something like "there are only 17 Raptors '''out there'''") it would have to be Raptor 612 (they've paused like that before in dialogue "Raptor 6..12").
*17 other survivors
*Starbucks (one with Heavy Raider brain)
*612 (in mountain)
*Racetracks
=20
::Helo is in Starbuck's Raptor, which would not show up on his screen. The correct count is Helo/Starbuck's ship, + Racetrack, + Raptor 612 (lost in the mountain), + 17 others = 20. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 09:28, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::Yes, but are we ''certain'' there were 20 raptors to begin with? It's not given in dialog, and I haven't been able to get a good count from any CGI shots. According to sadgeezer, these are the pilots that checkin with Starbuck over wireless:
:::#Headcase
:::#Swordsman
:::#Shoestrap
:::#Scumball
:::#Milko
:::#Skylar
:::#Ronin
:::#Brake
:::#Boulion
:::#Steaker
:::#Hamster
:::#Bo
:::#Chaser
:::#Godama
:::#Charlieman
:::#Starcloud
:::#Racetrack
:::#Callon
:::#...and Starbuck.
:::I suppose the raptor piloted by "Toughguy" and "Carousel" makes 20. I also hear an unintellgable name between "Swordsman" and "Shoestrap", but I can't actually hear "Toughguy" either - they might be the same person. I think it's worth noting that [[Stubbs]] isn't on this list - this reinforces my opinion that he was the pilot killed in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I", but I suppose it's possible that he's still around and just opted out of the mission.
:::--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:00, 5 March 2006 (CST)

::::I'm confused - I don't remember hearing that many checkins. The only time I recall them doing it, I heard at most a couple followed by Racetrack and then they were done. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 22:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)

The checkins were in the background while Helo talked to Sharon. Additionally, they did only lose one Raptor (Helo continually refers to losing one Raptor, in the singular) and his exact line was "they jumped inside the mountain". [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 12:38, 7 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Count Discussion 3 ==
At 33:40 or so there is a CG shot clearly showing a total of 20 Raptors. Since this takes place ''after'' Racetrack is left behind, this puts the total original count at ''21''. A continuity error perhaps? -[[User:Bgii 2000|Bgii 2000]] 08:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== Raptor Reconciliation ==
In Scar the mining ship was mining metals for ''Pegasus's'' production teams to construct new vipers. Isn't it possible they produced some raptors as well?
:It might be, but just like an automobile factory, it would probably take substantial effort and material to re-tool the ''Pegasus'' viper factory for raptors. Switching to another variety of the same vehicle (Corollas to Camrys, or Mark II vipers to Mark VII) takes some doing; this would be a much bigger change. [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 5 March 2006 6:08 p.m. (EST).
::Well, the Pegasus has the capablility to build one craft in it's air wing. Logically, she should also be able to produce other ones. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:59, 5 March 2006 (CST)
::Actually many automobile assembly lines are being designed now to allow for multiple models to be built at the same time. For example, BMW's new plant in Leipzig can produce all 10 BMW models on the same assembly line. --[[User:LindyChef|LindyChef]] 22:59, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Jump and FTL Physics ==
BTW: in case anyone was wondering later; in the podcast, RDM confirms that by "jumped into the mountain" he doesn't mean "they jumped close to it and thus crashed", he means, exactly like a ''Star Trek'' transporter accident, that they materialized from the Jump "in solid rock" like a transporter accident. Cool. (It's what I assumed too).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:39, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::If the FTL drive works by opening up a wormhole then it seems like jumping into a mountain would create a sphear of rock that would be 'jumped' into space while the raptor swapped places with it. Likewise a puff of air would be seen if you were observing the spot from which the the raptors made their final jump into the atomosphere. If that was the case it would be possible for the unfortunate raptor to just jump itself out of the mountain. On the other hand perhaps opening up the wormhole w/one end in the mountain perhaps the raptor collided with the rock that was being 'jumped out' leaving its transponder intact inside the mountain but the raptor & its crew would be smashed up. If this is the case FTL's could make useful mining tools. If some valuable ore is buried at the center of a planet or star just use an FTL to open up a wormhole and let it come out. Say your water tanks are empty. Just open up a wormhole inside the tank with the other end in some fresh water lake & the water will pour out and fill you up. -- ''attributed to'' [[User:Boonton|Boonton]] ''@ unknown time''

:::Oh man, you're getting into quantum physics, and while that makes for a fascinating discussion (appropriate for here, if you wish), I'll prefix this by saying that RDM has stated, several times, that he's not one for techno-babble-geekiness. Let's just figure the folks in that Raptor got "rocked" (sorry, bad pun... I could have said "stoned") and won't be seen again. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:49, 6 March 2006 (CST)

:::Fair point. I love that RDM has kept away from geeking the series up with psuedo-science but the mind can't help but wonder about these things. --[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 14:09, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Events / Politics / Theology Discussion ==
Hey all, I find it interesting that the discussion automatically focuses on counting Raptors and figuring out how the technical things work. Can we perhaps add some discussion about the actual events of the show, and the characters? To me, the draw of the show is the fact that it's actually a character drama that just happens to be set in space... Ron Moore has said many times that he doesn't feel the need to explain how everything works, and I think that goes a long way in making it a successful show. The last time I really saw that was the original Star Wars. With no explaination of all the sci-fi tech, you more readily accepted "their" world and just went along for the ride, instead of getting caught up on minutia of how FTL works, etc. Thoughts? Or am I just out there...? -- [[User:stealthboy|stealthboy]] 10:23, 7 March 2006 (EST)

:: I agree, this episode put forth some interesting ideas about religion. Brother Cavell, who I would expect to be putting forth a stelth version of the cyclon religion, more or less ripped apart the idea of praying to the gods for help. Is he trying to weaken the colonials faith in polytheism in order to pave the ground for a cyclon conversion effort to monotheism?

::In politics I found the camapaign by Baltar to settle the planet to be odd. How many modern people could be dropped off in untamed wilderness and make a settlement from scratch? I for one would rather have the comfort of a modern ship to live in until we find a world pre-populated with friendly people.

::Finally the rescue mission struck me as odd as well. This seems like an incredibly risky mission to send the best of the best on in order to achieve the slim hope of recuing a handful of people. Will Galactica and the fleet just wait around for them to return? What if they all get killed, how long can the fleet wait to see if this gamble pays off?--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 14:32, 7 March 2006 (CST)
:::About Brother Cavel, he criticized prayer - not the Lords of Kobol. He said the problem was with Tyrol, not them.
:::About the campaign, the people voted based on hope not reality. They're not thinking of how hard it will be down there, and won't until they actually have to make a living.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:00, 8 March 2006 (EST)

== Music? ==
Does anyone know the music playing the the background from the first few scenes of this episode? --[[User:PioneerCreative|PioneerCreative]] 23:33, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Earth? ==
Is the planet in this episode [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]? -- [[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 09:06, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:No. The leaders know roughly where Earth is, and it's very far away from their current position. [[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 09:13, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::Not to mention that Earth is neither barren nor hidden in a nebula. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:47, 4 March 2006 (EST)
:::Not now, at least. [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 15:30, 4 March 2006 (EST)

== Noodles Note==
I think the noodles note on this went on far longer than it should; just leave it with "this is something his father did too": pointing out all of the superstitions and stuff just ran on--->unless RDM himself mentions this kind of thing in the podcast, she should not use it here; RDM indeed did not mention it in the podcast for LDYB part I. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:05, 5 March 2006 (CST)

== Spoilers - Right or Wrong? ==
So were the spoilers that were posted before the episode aired a red herring? The planet was not offered by the cyclons as part of a peace initive. Since one of the selling points of this planet is that it is supposedly unlikely to be found by the cyclons wouldn't any of them showing up in part 2 basically spoil the whole idea? -- ''attributed to'' [[User:Boonton|Boonton]] ''@ unknown time''

== Racetrack's jump — a Cylon plot? ==
From the topic page: ''"On the very first jump out of the series of ten, Racetrack's Raptor jumps to the wrong set of coordinates"''.

OK, that could be all there is to it... '''OR''' (entering [[Wikipedia:Tin-foil hat|tinfoil-hat]] mode) it could all have been a Cylon plot. Consider: a Cylon navigation computer, interfacing to a Cylon, calculates the jump coordinates for all 20 Raptors. Isn't it at least conceivable the nav computer deliberately gave out misleading coordinates, thus sending one of the Raptors near to the planet now known as New Caprica?

# Suppose the heavy raider computer "knew" of New Caprica? Perhaps it had been there on some previous survey mission or maybe the planet was already known by the Cylons.
# The nav computer might have had a conversation with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|''Caprica''-Sharon]] when she interfaced to it, possibly even below Sharon's level of consciousness. (Hence Sharon's "foreboding"...a little reminscent of Walter Pidgeon in ''Forbidden Planet'').
# The Cylons appear not to want to extinguish the rest of humanity, at least not now. Penning humans up in a known location would give Cylons time to figure out what they '''do''' want to do with the remnants of humanity. No guarantee humans finding the planet would result in them staying there, but no harm in trying.
# At this stage of the series, Caprica-Sharon isn't too fond of any humans and may have dredged up New Caprica from some long-forgotten database (if the navigation computer didn't already know).
# What kind of error would lead to such a misjump anyway? If this happened even once every ten thousand jumps that would be way too often for the colonial fleet. There must be plenty of safeguards -- at least as much as today's Internet, say -- to ensure the coordinates received match the ones transmitted. Ah, but there's no error involved if the wrong coordinates are deliberately sent in the first place.

I'm not sure I subscribe to this, but am offering it as at least a hypothesis worthy of consideration.

A first reaction to this idea might be to recall the explanation offered by the Cylons when they came for Baltar's surrender: "We Cylons found an atomic explosion signature". That would seem to imply everything happened by chance. Maybe. Maybe not. Space is vast. I mean really big. Coming upon a detectable trace of a puny atomic explosion after a years' worth of dispersion is almost laughably unlikely. Possibly this was just an excuse offered to hide the ''real'' explanation: a homing beacon built by a [[Cylon agent]], or perhaps an exhaustive Cylon search of all known habitable planets. There are lots of reasons for Cylons to lie.

I find this explanation more believable than the ''triple'' coincidence of the wrong jump coordinates, then two races finding the same remote, "hidden" planet (they should have called it [[Wikipedia:Gondolin|Gondolin]]) within a year of one another. One event: coincidence. Two events: suspicious. Three events: enemy action. --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 19:43, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:I think you are grasping at straws with these hypothesese. We need more understanding onscreen about the working of cylon systems before we can say that such internal thinking is happening. In any case, it doesn't seem plausible that such detailed planning is going on in lower subsystems. The error that caused the misjump wasn't a typical FTL error, but an error caused by forcing the raptor to jump a distance by far greater than it was initially designed to jump, let's say for example 10 times. Forcing a system to exceed its original limitations will most certainly cause errors to occur. Remember, their success rate was 18 successful raptors out of 20, only 90%. The only coinsodence that truly is a coincidence is finding the planet in the first place, but if you've watched enough movies and shows, coincidences are part of fictional programming and should be expected. And yes, space is vast, but that nuclear explosion was a big explosion and today we are now detecting Brown Dwarfs (sub-stars) now that don't even have nuclear reactions going with todays telescopes. So far the Cylons to detect a nuclear explosion from 1 light year out seems fairly reasonable. They didn't see the planet, they saw the radiation produced by the explosion traveling at the speed of light to the location their search party was at. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 08:53, 17 March 2006 (MST)

: <font style="color: #d1d0a5;">Why is chance and luck (or, good fortune) so hard to believe? And what are these "triple coincidences" of which you speak? There ''are'' such things as "benevolent accidents" or "chance encounters", wherein a number gets transposed and it results in something completely different than what you expected. Take something as innocuous as a phone number –such as 555-2435. You transpose the number to 555-2345, and dial. Are you going to get the person or party you expected? No. But hey, you might stumble upon someone ''else'' that you didn't expect, and find out that that number belongs to a Chinese restaurant (you were expecting a Pizza joint), or a bank, or ... maybe a hot-sounding chick. Who knows? It happens all the time.

:Granted, the infinite vastness of space makes this event '''''extremely''''' far-fetched. It would have been far more believeable had Racetrack's Raptor jumped into "no-wheresville", with absolutely nothing around. But this is a Sci-fi drama, and where's the fun in that? Instead, the writers will give luck & chance a bit of a nudge, and have our heroes hit the ball on the first swing. I completely believe that the Cylons didn't know that this planet existed (or if they did, it wasn't on their priority shopping list), and wouldn't have known '''''had not'''''' Gina-Six detonated that nuclear warhead (In the buff, too! Wow, no tan lines!). The Cylons have already admitted that they are particularly attuned to/affected by radiation and thermonuclear events, so it stands to reason that the sensor arrays on their BaseStars would be hyper-sensitive to any thermonuclear events nearby. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 10:09, 17 March 2006 (CST)</font>

''I think you are grasping at straws with these hypothesese.''

I don't get other sources of information outside the show as aired and this Wiki. I'm looking at what we saw onscreen and wondering if there are other things going on besides the obvious. You can say that's too much green eyeshade (which is quite possibly an unfashionable accessory to a tinfoil hat) in this case, but I don't consider it grasping at straws. Please read on.

''The error that caused the misjump wasn't a typical FTL error, but an error caused by forcing the raptor to jump a distance by far greater than it was initially designed to jump, let's say for example 10 times.''

Do you have evidence for this? It's a good thought. In my mind, they were ''given'' the wrong coordinates by the {nav computer / Sharon}. I don't have any evidence for that -- it's just what occurred to me. If there were good evidence this was instead a component failure, then the tinfoil hypothesis loses a lot of backing. But wouldn't such a component failure leave them "Lost in Space" with no idea where they were? How would they then get back? If, instead, they really jumped to the designated (bad) coordinates, at least they'd have a chance of retracing their steps, '''which they did'''. So the evidence, as I see it, is that they were ''given'' the wrong coordinates in the first place. It's a simpler explanation for how they got back.

<font style="color: #d1d0a5;">''it stands to reason that the sensor arrays on their BaseStars would be hyper-sensitive to any thermonuclear events nearby''</font>

After a year it's no longer "nearby". I don't know nuclear physics all that well, but I suspect the volume of the nuke to be around 800 cm^3, from visual inspection of the "device" and a very helpful [[Wikipedia:Nuclear weapon design|Wikipedia article]]. Figuring 10^26 atoms per cm^3 (and this is generous) that means there were about 8*10^28 atoms in the device. Peak fission explosion efficiency is 25%, or 2*10^28 "participating" atoms, and if you build a very good device you'll get 3 neutrons released per atom, or about 6*10^28 neutrons released in a 25%-efficient explosion. That's a lot of neutrons, but they have to fill a sphere of 1 light-year radius, 10^55 cm^3. Their density would be about 6*10^-27, well below the 10^-5 or so typical empty space density. In other words, invisible.

Now that's just the neutrons and doesn't say anything about the X-rays, gamma rays etc. But I have to assume similar logic will lead to similar conclusions. A fixed amount of "evidence" followed by a year of travel in 3 dimensions dilutes the concentration of radiation well below the ambient levels even in empty space. So I don't buy the "it stands to reason" line of reasoning above.

Admittedly you guys may be correct; pehaps the Cylons spoke the truth etc., etc. But that amounts to granting the writers a '''''lot''''' of artistic license. And that's OK if it advances the storyline without screaming '''"writer's block"'''. But you know, the "conspiracy theory" advances the storyline just as well -- without appeal to as much artistic license. --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 18:23, 17 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I/Archive 1

2008-06-15T08:36:25Z

Bgii 2000:

Since, according to IMDB, Dean Stockwell has been credited with the role of Brother Cavell (not Cavill) ... should this page be modified? Apparently, one more cylon has been identified.

:Not sure. All the ep guide says is that Cavell is a Humano-Cylon priest. IS it possible that the spoiler is wrong and he's really just a religious leader (possibly replacing Elosha) who is promoting a Human-Cylon peace? --Ltcrashdown 22:19, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I've been spoiled, and can tell you that he is indeed a Cylon (unless he has an identical twin brother). [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:49, 4 March 2006 (EST)
:::Ummm... dude, thanks for spoiling me. Grrr.... --[[User:stealthboy|stealthboy]] 10:38, 6 March 2006 (EST)

Found some pics - Spoiler Warning - http://pics.livejournal.com/ravenclawdrew/gallery/0000wa1h - [[User:Lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 12:30, 11 February, 2006

::Yeah I saw those too; it's what I based the info about Baltar running for President on (look really hard).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:40, 10 February 2006 (EST)

I am starting to think these spoilers were to throw us off the track...

== Editing ==
Corrected a number of spelling mistakes - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 3rd March, 2006

Note to everyone: I tend to make a lot of spelling mistakes because I'm hurrying, and worrying about spelling makes it harder for me to concentrate and focus on the information, and slows me down alot; I usually try to proofread my stuff when I'm "done" with an episode (after most of the notes and stuff around done) but I still tend to leave a typo here or there. I appreciate the spelling help. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:55, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Merovingian, don't worry, the quality article makes "up" for it ;) i do the same thing as well when it comes to writing up an article - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 3rd March, 2006

:Yeah I usually only worry about spelling around Sundays, by which time we're more or less done. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)

::I think this is the right approach. We obviously want the capsule summaries sooner rather than later. And we don't criticise authors' typos as English may not be their native tongue and in any event if we waited for perfection we'd still be on the miniseries. [[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 08:14, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Count Discussion 1 ==
How many Raptors are lost in the misjump into the mountain? One or two? I only thought it was on when I watched the episode and edited the summary to reflect this, but it seems '''everybody''' else seems to think it was a pair. Starbuck did say two names, but I interpreted those to be the pilot and ECO of a single Raptor. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 01:29, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:Helo says they have 17 Raptors left. They already lost Racetrack's. They then say two names, and Starbuck says "we lost Raptore six twelve"; Now, this sounds confusing, but I don't think she said "Raptor 612"; I think she said "Raptors 6, 12" out of 20. Plus she did say two names; in addition, it wasn't just pilots but also marines, so one name wouldn't make as much sense. Although a little fuzzy, this still fits the "19-17=2" thing, instead of us jumping to believe that another Raptor got lost in a completely undocumented event. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 01:36, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::I remember hearing Helo say they had seventeen left after (I thought) a single one had been lost in the mountain and thinking nineteen was an odd starting number, having missed the earlier reference to the entire complement being twenty. If the starting force did indeed number twenty, it seems clear two Raptors were indeed lost in the final jump and I was mistaken. I will point out, however, that Starbuck would be much less likely to know the names of marines lost on board a ship, while it's almost a given she would know who the flight crew were. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 02:01, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:::Helo actually says, "Wait a minute, we lost ''another'' Raptor. I'm only reading 17 ''out there''." His DRADIS screen doesn't display the Raptor they are in - that behavior was shown clearly in Scattered. Galactica's DRADIS was completely empty when they were seperated from the fleet, it didn't show Galactica itself as a single contact. So, clearly, Helo is talking about there being 17 other Raptors, in addition to the one he, Starbuck, and Sharon are in. In addition, Starbuck clearly says Raptor, not Raptors, and it is extremely unlikely that she would verbally separate a list of two numbers with an implied comma rather than the word 'and'. Not to mention, Raptors are commonly referred to by their 3-digit flight number. So only two Raptors were lost - Racetrack's miscalculated jump, and Raptor 612, which jumped into the mountain. Eighteen landed safely on Caprica. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 09:00, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::::Xenophon is right on the money. Oh well, this means I don't have to right all that. I suddenly want to read "The Ten Thousand" again... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:24, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::::And just to chime in, if there were only 17 raptors, then Kara would have had to scrub the mission, so 18 did land on Caprica. --[[User:LindyChef|LindyChef]] 23:05, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Count Discussion 2 ==
Questions:
#Did we get the 20 raptor count in dialog?
#We lost Racetrack on the first jump and Raptor 612 on the last. The SAR team had 17 raptors after that, so if they started off with 20, they lost one other in between. Only Raptor 612 got up close and personal with the mountain. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:51, 4 March 2006 (CST)
:No, Farago. She said "RaptorS 6, 12". They lost 2 in the final jump, 1 when Racetrack got lost, and none in between. Starbuck lists off two names. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:12, 4 March 2006 (CST)
:Counting the one they're in (Helo said something like "there are only 17 Raptors '''out there'''") it would have to be Raptor 612 (they've paused like that before in dialogue "Raptor 6..12").
*17 other survivors
*Starbucks (one with Heavy Raider brain)
*612 (in mountain)
*Racetracks
=20
::Helo is in Starbuck's Raptor, which would not show up on his screen. The correct count is Helo/Starbuck's ship, + Racetrack, + Raptor 612 (lost in the mountain), + 17 others = 20. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 09:28, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::Yes, but are we ''certain'' there were 20 raptors to begin with? It's not given in dialog, and I haven't been able to get a good count from any CGI shots. According to sadgeezer, these are the pilots that checkin with Starbuck over wireless:
:::#Headcase
:::#Swordsman
:::#Shoestrap
:::#Scumball
:::#Milko
:::#Skylar
:::#Ronin
:::#Brake
:::#Boulion
:::#Steaker
:::#Hamster
:::#Bo
:::#Chaser
:::#Godama
:::#Charlieman
:::#Starcloud
:::#Racetrack
:::#Callon
:::#...and Starbuck.
:::I suppose the raptor piloted by "Toughguy" and "Carousel" makes 20. I also hear an unintellgable name between "Swordsman" and "Shoestrap", but I can't actually hear "Toughguy" either - they might be the same person. I think it's worth noting that [[Stubbs]] isn't on this list - this reinforces my opinion that he was the pilot killed in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I", but I suppose it's possible that he's still around and just opted out of the mission.
:::--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:00, 5 March 2006 (CST)

::::I'm confused - I don't remember hearing that many checkins. The only time I recall them doing it, I heard at most a couple followed by Racetrack and then they were done. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 22:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)

The checkins were in the background while Helo talked to Sharon. Additionally, they did only lose one Raptor (Helo continually refers to losing one Raptor, in the singular) and his exact line was "they jumped inside the mountain". [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 12:38, 7 March 2006 (CST)
:::::At 33:40 or so there is a CG shot clearly showing a total of 20 Raptors. Since this takes place after Racetrack is left behind, this puts the total original count at 21. A continuity error perhaps? [[User:Bgii 2000|Bgii 2000]] 08:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== Raptor Reconciliation ==
In Scar the mining ship was mining metals for ''Pegasus's'' production teams to construct new vipers. Isn't it possible they produced some raptors as well?
:It might be, but just like an automobile factory, it would probably take substantial effort and material to re-tool the ''Pegasus'' viper factory for raptors. Switching to another variety of the same vehicle (Corollas to Camrys, or Mark II vipers to Mark VII) takes some doing; this would be a much bigger change. [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 5 March 2006 6:08 p.m. (EST).
::Well, the Pegasus has the capablility to build one craft in it's air wing. Logically, she should also be able to produce other ones. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:59, 5 March 2006 (CST)
::Actually many automobile assembly lines are being designed now to allow for multiple models to be built at the same time. For example, BMW's new plant in Leipzig can produce all 10 BMW models on the same assembly line. --[[User:LindyChef|LindyChef]] 22:59, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Raptor Jump and FTL Physics ==
BTW: in case anyone was wondering later; in the podcast, RDM confirms that by "jumped into the mountain" he doesn't mean "they jumped close to it and thus crashed", he means, exactly like a ''Star Trek'' transporter accident, that they materialized from the Jump "in solid rock" like a transporter accident. Cool. (It's what I assumed too).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:39, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::If the FTL drive works by opening up a wormhole then it seems like jumping into a mountain would create a sphear of rock that would be 'jumped' into space while the raptor swapped places with it. Likewise a puff of air would be seen if you were observing the spot from which the the raptors made their final jump into the atomosphere. If that was the case it would be possible for the unfortunate raptor to just jump itself out of the mountain. On the other hand perhaps opening up the wormhole w/one end in the mountain perhaps the raptor collided with the rock that was being 'jumped out' leaving its transponder intact inside the mountain but the raptor & its crew would be smashed up. If this is the case FTL's could make useful mining tools. If some valuable ore is buried at the center of a planet or star just use an FTL to open up a wormhole and let it come out. Say your water tanks are empty. Just open up a wormhole inside the tank with the other end in some fresh water lake & the water will pour out and fill you up. -- ''attributed to'' [[User:Boonton|Boonton]] ''@ unknown time''

:::Oh man, you're getting into quantum physics, and while that makes for a fascinating discussion (appropriate for here, if you wish), I'll prefix this by saying that RDM has stated, several times, that he's not one for techno-babble-geekiness. Let's just figure the folks in that Raptor got "rocked" (sorry, bad pun... I could have said "stoned") and won't be seen again. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:49, 6 March 2006 (CST)

:::Fair point. I love that RDM has kept away from geeking the series up with psuedo-science but the mind can't help but wonder about these things. --[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 14:09, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Events / Politics / Theology Discussion ==
Hey all, I find it interesting that the discussion automatically focuses on counting Raptors and figuring out how the technical things work. Can we perhaps add some discussion about the actual events of the show, and the characters? To me, the draw of the show is the fact that it's actually a character drama that just happens to be set in space... Ron Moore has said many times that he doesn't feel the need to explain how everything works, and I think that goes a long way in making it a successful show. The last time I really saw that was the original Star Wars. With no explaination of all the sci-fi tech, you more readily accepted "their" world and just went along for the ride, instead of getting caught up on minutia of how FTL works, etc. Thoughts? Or am I just out there...? -- [[User:stealthboy|stealthboy]] 10:23, 7 March 2006 (EST)

:: I agree, this episode put forth some interesting ideas about religion. Brother Cavell, who I would expect to be putting forth a stelth version of the cyclon religion, more or less ripped apart the idea of praying to the gods for help. Is he trying to weaken the colonials faith in polytheism in order to pave the ground for a cyclon conversion effort to monotheism?

::In politics I found the camapaign by Baltar to settle the planet to be odd. How many modern people could be dropped off in untamed wilderness and make a settlement from scratch? I for one would rather have the comfort of a modern ship to live in until we find a world pre-populated with friendly people.

::Finally the rescue mission struck me as odd as well. This seems like an incredibly risky mission to send the best of the best on in order to achieve the slim hope of recuing a handful of people. Will Galactica and the fleet just wait around for them to return? What if they all get killed, how long can the fleet wait to see if this gamble pays off?--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 14:32, 7 March 2006 (CST)
:::About Brother Cavel, he criticized prayer - not the Lords of Kobol. He said the problem was with Tyrol, not them.
:::About the campaign, the people voted based on hope not reality. They're not thinking of how hard it will be down there, and won't until they actually have to make a living.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:00, 8 March 2006 (EST)

== Music? ==
Does anyone know the music playing the the background from the first few scenes of this episode? --[[User:PioneerCreative|PioneerCreative]] 23:33, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Earth? ==
Is the planet in this episode [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]? -- [[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 09:06, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:No. The leaders know roughly where Earth is, and it's very far away from their current position. [[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 09:13, 4 March 2006 (CST)
::Not to mention that Earth is neither barren nor hidden in a nebula. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:47, 4 March 2006 (EST)
:::Not now, at least. [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 15:30, 4 March 2006 (EST)

== Noodles Note==
I think the noodles note on this went on far longer than it should; just leave it with "this is something his father did too": pointing out all of the superstitions and stuff just ran on--->unless RDM himself mentions this kind of thing in the podcast, she should not use it here; RDM indeed did not mention it in the podcast for LDYB part I. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:05, 5 March 2006 (CST)

== Spoilers - Right or Wrong? ==
So were the spoilers that were posted before the episode aired a red herring? The planet was not offered by the cyclons as part of a peace initive. Since one of the selling points of this planet is that it is supposedly unlikely to be found by the cyclons wouldn't any of them showing up in part 2 basically spoil the whole idea? -- ''attributed to'' [[User:Boonton|Boonton]] ''@ unknown time''

== Racetrack's jump — a Cylon plot? ==
From the topic page: ''"On the very first jump out of the series of ten, Racetrack's Raptor jumps to the wrong set of coordinates"''.

OK, that could be all there is to it... '''OR''' (entering [[Wikipedia:Tin-foil hat|tinfoil-hat]] mode) it could all have been a Cylon plot. Consider: a Cylon navigation computer, interfacing to a Cylon, calculates the jump coordinates for all 20 Raptors. Isn't it at least conceivable the nav computer deliberately gave out misleading coordinates, thus sending one of the Raptors near to the planet now known as New Caprica?

# Suppose the heavy raider computer "knew" of New Caprica? Perhaps it had been there on some previous survey mission or maybe the planet was already known by the Cylons.
# The nav computer might have had a conversation with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|''Caprica''-Sharon]] when she interfaced to it, possibly even below Sharon's level of consciousness. (Hence Sharon's "foreboding"...a little reminscent of Walter Pidgeon in ''Forbidden Planet'').
# The Cylons appear not to want to extinguish the rest of humanity, at least not now. Penning humans up in a known location would give Cylons time to figure out what they '''do''' want to do with the remnants of humanity. No guarantee humans finding the planet would result in them staying there, but no harm in trying.
# At this stage of the series, Caprica-Sharon isn't too fond of any humans and may have dredged up New Caprica from some long-forgotten database (if the navigation computer didn't already know).
# What kind of error would lead to such a misjump anyway? If this happened even once every ten thousand jumps that would be way too often for the colonial fleet. There must be plenty of safeguards -- at least as much as today's Internet, say -- to ensure the coordinates received match the ones transmitted. Ah, but there's no error involved if the wrong coordinates are deliberately sent in the first place.

I'm not sure I subscribe to this, but am offering it as at least a hypothesis worthy of consideration.

A first reaction to this idea might be to recall the explanation offered by the Cylons when they came for Baltar's surrender: "We Cylons found an atomic explosion signature". That would seem to imply everything happened by chance. Maybe. Maybe not. Space is vast. I mean really big. Coming upon a detectable trace of a puny atomic explosion after a years' worth of dispersion is almost laughably unlikely. Possibly this was just an excuse offered to hide the ''real'' explanation: a homing beacon built by a [[Cylon agent]], or perhaps an exhaustive Cylon search of all known habitable planets. There are lots of reasons for Cylons to lie.

I find this explanation more believable than the ''triple'' coincidence of the wrong jump coordinates, then two races finding the same remote, "hidden" planet (they should have called it [[Wikipedia:Gondolin|Gondolin]]) within a year of one another. One event: coincidence. Two events: suspicious. Three events: enemy action. --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 19:43, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:I think you are grasping at straws with these hypothesese. We need more understanding onscreen about the working of cylon systems before we can say that such internal thinking is happening. In any case, it doesn't seem plausible that such detailed planning is going on in lower subsystems. The error that caused the misjump wasn't a typical FTL error, but an error caused by forcing the raptor to jump a distance by far greater than it was initially designed to jump, let's say for example 10 times. Forcing a system to exceed its original limitations will most certainly cause errors to occur. Remember, their success rate was 18 successful raptors out of 20, only 90%. The only coinsodence that truly is a coincidence is finding the planet in the first place, but if you've watched enough movies and shows, coincidences are part of fictional programming and should be expected. And yes, space is vast, but that nuclear explosion was a big explosion and today we are now detecting Brown Dwarfs (sub-stars) now that don't even have nuclear reactions going with todays telescopes. So far the Cylons to detect a nuclear explosion from 1 light year out seems fairly reasonable. They didn't see the planet, they saw the radiation produced by the explosion traveling at the speed of light to the location their search party was at. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 08:53, 17 March 2006 (MST)

: <font style="color: #d1d0a5;">Why is chance and luck (or, good fortune) so hard to believe? And what are these "triple coincidences" of which you speak? There ''are'' such things as "benevolent accidents" or "chance encounters", wherein a number gets transposed and it results in something completely different than what you expected. Take something as innocuous as a phone number –such as 555-2435. You transpose the number to 555-2345, and dial. Are you going to get the person or party you expected? No. But hey, you might stumble upon someone ''else'' that you didn't expect, and find out that that number belongs to a Chinese restaurant (you were expecting a Pizza joint), or a bank, or ... maybe a hot-sounding chick. Who knows? It happens all the time.

:Granted, the infinite vastness of space makes this event '''''extremely''''' far-fetched. It would have been far more believeable had Racetrack's Raptor jumped into "no-wheresville", with absolutely nothing around. But this is a Sci-fi drama, and where's the fun in that? Instead, the writers will give luck & chance a bit of a nudge, and have our heroes hit the ball on the first swing. I completely believe that the Cylons didn't know that this planet existed (or if they did, it wasn't on their priority shopping list), and wouldn't have known '''''had not'''''' Gina-Six detonated that nuclear warhead (In the buff, too! Wow, no tan lines!). The Cylons have already admitted that they are particularly attuned to/affected by radiation and thermonuclear events, so it stands to reason that the sensor arrays on their BaseStars would be hyper-sensitive to any thermonuclear events nearby. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 10:09, 17 March 2006 (CST)</font>

''I think you are grasping at straws with these hypothesese.''

I don't get other sources of information outside the show as aired and this Wiki. I'm looking at what we saw onscreen and wondering if there are other things going on besides the obvious. You can say that's too much green eyeshade (which is quite possibly an unfashionable accessory to a tinfoil hat) in this case, but I don't consider it grasping at straws. Please read on.

''The error that caused the misjump wasn't a typical FTL error, but an error caused by forcing the raptor to jump a distance by far greater than it was initially designed to jump, let's say for example 10 times.''

Do you have evidence for this? It's a good thought. In my mind, they were ''given'' the wrong coordinates by the {nav computer / Sharon}. I don't have any evidence for that -- it's just what occurred to me. If there were good evidence this was instead a component failure, then the tinfoil hypothesis loses a lot of backing. But wouldn't such a component failure leave them "Lost in Space" with no idea where they were? How would they then get back? If, instead, they really jumped to the designated (bad) coordinates, at least they'd have a chance of retracing their steps, '''which they did'''. So the evidence, as I see it, is that they were ''given'' the wrong coordinates in the first place. It's a simpler explanation for how they got back.

<font style="color: #d1d0a5;">''it stands to reason that the sensor arrays on their BaseStars would be hyper-sensitive to any thermonuclear events nearby''</font>

After a year it's no longer "nearby". I don't know nuclear physics all that well, but I suspect the volume of the nuke to be around 800 cm^3, from visual inspection of the "device" and a very helpful [[Wikipedia:Nuclear weapon design|Wikipedia article]]. Figuring 10^26 atoms per cm^3 (and this is generous) that means there were about 8*10^28 atoms in the device. Peak fission explosion efficiency is 25%, or 2*10^28 "participating" atoms, and if you build a very good device you'll get 3 neutrons released per atom, or about 6*10^28 neutrons released in a 25%-efficient explosion. That's a lot of neutrons, but they have to fill a sphere of 1 light-year radius, 10^55 cm^3. Their density would be about 6*10^-27, well below the 10^-5 or so typical empty space density. In other words, invisible.

Now that's just the neutrons and doesn't say anything about the X-rays, gamma rays etc. But I have to assume similar logic will lead to similar conclusions. A fixed amount of "evidence" followed by a year of travel in 3 dimensions dilutes the concentration of radiation well below the ambient levels even in empty space. So I don't buy the "it stands to reason" line of reasoning above.

Admittedly you guys may be correct; pehaps the Cylons spoke the truth etc., etc. But that amounts to granting the writers a '''''lot''''' of artistic license. And that's OK if it advances the storyline without screaming '''"writer's block"'''. But you know, the "conspiracy theory" advances the storyline just as well -- without appeal to as much artistic license. --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 18:23, 17 March 2006 (CST)