Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Final Five/Archive 1

2008-02-05T21:46:08Z

Bbm4n:

== Promo Image ==

I took the image into photoshop (I do minor image tweaking at my job), did everything I could to enhance it, just for fun. And I'd like to make a grandiose speculation that the Five look, well, slightly mutilated...or mutated. Botched Cylon experiments, torutred and insane minds!!! I don't know, That one "fellow's" hand reaching to Three looks awefully stumpy...of course it could always be some foreshortening.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:57, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Yup, totally convinced they are mutilated and grotesque, their faces, albiet shrouded are just a little odd and produce strange shadow tones.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 11:17, 3 January 2007 (CST)

:It is also possible that the show is intentionally masquerading their faces to allow the show to cast anyone in these roles at a later time, rather than fixing the faces of the characters right away. In any case, any interpretations of these promo shots are too speculative to make a valid assessment. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:38, 3 January 2007 (CST)

We should get rid of the main picture - we don't know for sure that they are in fact the Final Five, they may be simply a hallucation on the part of D'eanna when she resurrects/is boxed.
Or perhaps the five temple priests who are not Cylons. Point is, we don't know --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 06:26, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:Writer's often portray canon information through a character, in this case D'Anna. That is the same vision she always has when she dies, we've already seen a part of the scene on "Hero", and it's what she's been seeing again and again. Her sketches and such are merely her representations of what she saw, this picture is what she actually saw. Anyways, even if you choose to not believe D'Anna, and even if you doubt the only logical explanation, I think David Eick confirmed that it's them she sees on a EW article. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)

== ID ==

Looking at the high resolution picture, I can identify most of the actors in these robes. Whether they actually are the Final Five Cylons or whether this is just a dream sequence and they grabbed whoever was convenient is not clear. From the left to the right:

# Aaron Douglas, better known as Chief Tyrol. The stature and facial features are a perfect match.
# Tahmoh Penikett, better known as Helo. This isn't as certain, but the lower face and stature both match.
# Unidentified female
# Unidentified female
# The big, bald Asian pilot who's always in the rec room.

[[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 21:32, 9 January 2007 (CST)

No two cylons can have a child which makes Tahmoh Penikett wrong. Don't know about the others, though the "Chief" guy is certainly too short --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 06:21, 10 January 2007 (CST)

:Major kudos if you are correct, cause I cartainly can't see it myself :P -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:27, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::They're just stand-ins, they don't release promo pics at random, and they wouldn't reveal anyone in such a way when having a chance to do it on screen. But as said before, those faces are vague enough to be almost anyone. They might have similarities, but a lot of people in the world can have similar features without looking the same. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:32, 10 January 2007 (CST)

::The thing of it is, is; we're all going to see what we want in them untill we actually see them. I'm pretty sure I'm not right (above comment) and fairly sure when they did these Promo pics and ambiguous #3 "in the hinterlands of Cylon death land" dreams, that they wouldn't have cast definite actors...it's a pretty significant choice to make of who should play the roles...so, stick some people in robes and shrouds to stand in and any old person will do for the snippets, clips, dream scenes and teaser tastys. we won't know 'till we know--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 07:42, 12 January 2007 (CST)

:Personally I think the show would be smart to not put all of their eggs in one basket on this whole final five thing. At least one of the five should be someone we've never seen, one should be someone who is alive and in the fleet and at least one should be someone who was in the fleet that has been dead for a while. Making all of the five sleepers who are in the fleet or making them all dead characters or all new characters wouldn't be very cool. Making it a balance between the three would be nice. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 19 January 2007.

I hate to repeat what's been stated, but I think Philwelch is looking way too hard because I see no one - and I mean ''no one'' familar in that image. Not even a vague similarity. I'm certain they're just stand-ins, but I find it odd that they'd release an image that shows so much, but also expect us not to see a match when the five are revealed. You'd figure they'd put more effort in hiding the faces, just to cover the bases. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 08:43, 22 January 2007 (CST)

== Reason for Locking ==

I don't want the server to flood or 4k people trying to edit this page. Take your time and finsh everything else first. Unprotect this at Midnight. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:21, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Interpretation question ==

After thinking about this, there are only two individuals that believe that what D'anna/Three has seen is actually images of the final five Cylons: herself, and Baltar. The Colonials scripture know that the Temple of Five was human-built, long before the Cylons existed, and was related to five priests who may have worshiped someone different from the Lords of Kobol. There's plenty of inference (with Kara Thrace, Leoben, [[Dodona Selloi]], and the Threes) that there is a connection between the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon God. My problem is that, while the notion that the final five Cylons has been established, there isn't information ''between'' the characters that verifies that what Three has seen are actual Cylon or human figures.

For that reason, I am going to rewrite this article with a level of neutrality that does not support only Three's belief since there is Colonial connections that exist. The final five represent five human priestly people (blessed, cursed or otherwise cited) or five Cylons (boxed, or related somehow to the origin of the new Cylon, which, after "Rapture," is not clear-cut. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:31, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:Well....RDM called them "The Final Five" in his podcast...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 10:03, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::The podcast doesn't elaborate on their nature, and Ron has twisted the truth before to keep the storyline a mystery until aired. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:06, 27 January 2007 (CST)

==Three wasn't the Only One==
I think we should also mention that Number Three wasn't the only Cylon to believe they were the Final Five. The Cavils believed it well enough to try to shoot her and even box her. So I think we should at least mention that they too believed Three was seeing the Final Five, enough to essentially eliminate 1/3 of their known female population. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:00, 27 January 2007 (CST)

The light that shines down as the Nova goes is real, and D'anna starts bleeding and dies for no other apparent reason. If it's an illusion in her mind, these things don't match.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:22, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:It didn't seem like an illusion, but rather a simple isolate hologram, which wouldn't be surprising since that's the kind of tech these things ususally have in them. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:35, 1 February 2007 (CST)

::The podcast supports the assumption that Three saw the actual Final Five, although I don't think it's explicitly stated. As for the device in the temple, there's quite a few possible explanations and I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer about which one is correct. The device could've triggered both Three's death and the visions directly, the device could've triggered Three's death, resulting in a vision just like her previous deaths did or the device could've triggered the visions, resulting in Three's death due to some hypothetical built-in failsafe in Three. Each of those three possibilities also has a number of explanations (for example, if the device caused the visions, it may have been a technological substitute for [[chamalla]], it may have been designed to unlock repressed memories or in may have been programmed with the images of the Final Five at any time in the past 4000 years). -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)
::: It seems that [[projection]] would be a likely technology behind a vision seen only by here. Why a 4,000 year old temple would be able to do that is nor more a mystery than why it would be able to insert a vision any other way. Further reflection shows this image to possibly be different from the image in the Temple of Athena, which was more holodeck like, and seen by all.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:47, 2 February 2007 (CST)

==Warning - possibly big spoiler below==
I was watching Final Five photo, when I noticed face similarity to one of main characters face. I made some photo mainpulating, and results is below.

[http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9007/finalfivespoilerzq0.png] <-- POSSIBLE HEAVY SPOILER

It gives me around 60-70% sure, that this char is one of Final Five. Yet there are two other things - first - it's possible, that director didn't thought of that, and put this actor there to "fill the gap".

Second - as I've searched through characteristic of this one, I haven't even found slight connections to Cylon, and it would mess with storyline pretty badly.

What do you think about that? --[[User:XLII|XLII]] 16:41, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Again, don't take that picture too literally. It did not actually appear in the episode after all, and they chose not to show the faces in detail at the end. We don't know if it was actually shot that way at all and just cut, or if they are just stand-ins for a test shot or something. In any case, since we don't see the five in the episode, we can't draw any conclusions --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:58, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Also remember how much Leoben likes mixing truth and lies... "Adama is a Cylon." [[User:Wynler|Wynler]] 11:12, 29 January 2007 (CST)
::XLII your idea was a good one, but there's a flaw in your comparison. As you darken the image of the actor, that face overtakes the face of the Final Five. The jawlines match up, which makes it look like it's the same person, but watch the chin and the upper lip (and the 5 o'clock shadow) in pics 1&2 and 4&5. They're different. --[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 19:44, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:::Even if you forget for a moment that the people in the promo picture are just stand-ins Lee Adama is most defintly '''not''' a Cylon anyway we already worked that out. Because he is the son of someone else who is most definitly not a cylon and the Cylons are not copies of already existing people. See [[Humanoid Cylon speculation]] and [[Characters eliminated from suspicion]] --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])
::::Not to mention that Lee has his fat makeup on there. Even if the images matched up, it wouldn't be a true likeness of Lee/Jamie Bamber.--[[User:Pearse|Pearse]] 18:31, 2 February 2007 (CST)

What if the final five aren't cylons at all, but in fact are part of the priesthood. The whole question "what defines a Cylon" opened by the writers had me thinking... the final five aren't "final" they are the "first" five. They are neither Cylon, nor human and possibly are some related faction to the 13th tribe whom were left behind to fulfull and manipulate things behind the scenes. I do not like the idea of certain main characters being cylons and I believe that this will be the only way to mitigate that unplesant "revelation". I've been pushing hard on the crossroads' talk pages that the final five aren't necessarily cylons and that Tigh certainly is not. --[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 22:23, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
:I agree with the idea that they are NOT Cylons but for different reasons. The first problem is the aging/immortality issue since it has been established that the current batch of cylons will live forever (as long as they are not boxed and are in range of a Ressurection Ship or the Cylon Homeworld). My thought is that the main characters who think they are cylons are NOT but rather descendants of the one or more copies of one or more of the models of the Final Five (thus fufulling RDM's promise of "bluring the line between Human and Cylon"). But we will soon see... [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 22:30, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Agreed, I actually was trying to clarify that. I think the final five are actually priests, five priests who continue the tradition of prophecies. Remember, Tyrol's father was a priest AND his mom was an Oracle. HE found the Eye. And finally, and this bugs me, people seem to ignore or overlook the fact that the Cylon Biers had stepped into the Eye's chamber when it was meant for a HUMAN to. SHE saw the final five and had explained that she had made a mistake and apologized. Now... I assume those five priests are the "final five" so-called cylons. But why am I the only person who gets that the other seven models do not KNOW who or WHAT the final five truly are? --[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 23:02, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

I'd actually go with the idea that they are not the FINAL Five, but the FIRST Five. I think the Enemy Seven are the Children of the Cylon group. They don't know about the first 5 also, they don't know who programmed them.--[[User:James968|James968]] 04:51, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

== D'Anna's Apology ==

Right now this article lists Saul Tigh as being the leading suspect of who D'Anna saw, but I'm not sure if this information should really be included; it's complete speculation on one hand, and on the other... I'm not sure that it really holds merit. Certainly Tigh has endured the most of all the final five at the hands of the Cylon, but D'Anna never really had much involvement with him; on the other hand, she attacked and nearly killed Anders in Downloaded. He would seem to me a more likely suspect of who she saw and felt compelled to apologize to. At the very least, my speculation is no more off bat then the theory that it's Tigh, and that really calls for some change here. [[User:ColonelKevin|ColonelKevin]] 03:59, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

:I think she's talking to Anders, as they have had a [[Downloaded|face-to-face conflict with eachother before]]. She was pretty abusive to him in that episode, and if she saw that he wasn't Human, but a member of the [[Final Five]], she would probably be pretty apologetic....[[User:Zach dax|Zach dax]] 23:51, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
::So much to apologize for. Tigh's eye (though that seemed a Cavil project). Putting Tyrol's wife on a death list. Beating up Anders. Outside, her centurions are shooting at Anders and Tyrol, and shot and seriously injured Anders' wife. Only Foster brings nothing to mind. However, I don't think it was any of them, and while we can list reasons like the ones I cite, the line "I had no idea" suggests it is somebody bigger. Because she certainly would have had an idea that the F5 were infiltrating the fleet, where else would they be, after all? But no, we can't list who the apology is to quite yet, and since she started a war that killed everybody's families and friends, it's hard to find somebody she could not apologize to.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 03:18, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

== D'Anna's sketches ==
The two on the right are, in retrospect, clearly Tigh and Anders. I'm not sure about the other ones. The one on the far left is vague enough to be anyone with long hair, or anyone with short hair wearing a hood, and the one in the middle is vague enough to be any woman with a slim face, narrow jawline and straight, shoulder length or longer hair. The one to the near left depicts someone with dark hair and a widow's peak, however no major character other than [[Number Five]] meets those criteria, however they are rough sketches based on blurry memories, so it could be a distorted portrait of Tyrol, Baltar or Roslin. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:12, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:I dunno, but SkyOne HD already aired this episode, so if anyone has a higher resolution cap of the sketches then it would greatly help the article I think, if at least visually. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:58, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

== Ironies and references ==

The revelation of the identities Fantastic Four (as I like to call them) brought up some interesting ironies. I thought I'd list them here for entertainment purposes, along with other early references to their Cylonness:
* On several occasions throughout the show, [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] plays with the idea of committing suicide. Not only is this considered a mortal sin by the Significant Seven, it also won't solve his problems, as he'll just be resurrected.
* In "[[33]]", Tigh gives [[William Adama|Adama]] his 10 minutes rest, because Adama is more tired. Interestingly, [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] also suffered less from the sleep-depriving conditions than anyone else.
* In "[[Litmus]]", [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] is interrogated for conspiracy with a Cylon.
* In the episodes "[[Scattered]]" through "[[The Farm]]", a Cylon has been in command of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].
* In "[[Fragged]]", Tyrol leads an attack on five Cylon [[Centurion]]s
* [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] has been [[Caprica Resistance|fighting the Significant Seven]] ever since the [[Fall of the Colonies]].
** When Anders' group ambushes [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], Anders assumes they are Cylons, while he's a Cylon himself.
* In "[[Resistance]]", Tigh accuses Tyrol of being a Cylon. Not only is Tigh right, he is also a Cylon himself.
* After his release, Tyrol talks about how he saw [[Sharon Valerii]] slowly realizing her Cylon identity, not knowing the same will happen to him (although his realization is much faster).
* In "[[Home, Part II]]", Adama orders Tyrol to guard fellow Cylon [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]], [[Tom Zarek|Zarek]] and Helo.
* In "[[Final Cut]]", [[Number Three|D'Anna Biers]] tries to implicate Tigh in the [[Gideon]] incident, not knowing he's a Cylon just like her.
* In "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", Tyrol builds a stealth craft that successfully avoids Cylon DRADIS.
* In "[[The Captain's Hand]]", [[Tory Foster|Tory]] is very closely involved in the plot to hide [[Hera]], who is actively searched for by the Seven and connected to the [[final five]] on some occasions.
* In "[[Downloaded]]", a Three threatens to kill Anders, not knowing he's a Cylon as well.
* In "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", Tyrol is the first to identify [[Cavil]] as a Cylon.
* Tigh, Tyrol and Anders were the three leading figures of the [[New Caprica Resistance]].
** They were also members of [[The Circle]] that [[Collaborators|executed]] collaborators after the Second Exodus.
** Tory also helped the resistance by organizing evacuation exercises disguised as fire drills.
* In "[[Hero]]", Tigh is the one to realize Bulldog was manipulated by the Cylons to kill Adama.
* In "[[Rapture]]", when Three finds the Temple in order to see the final five, two of them (Tyrol and Anders) are just outside (credit to someone else on this Wiki).
* In "[[A Day in the Life]]", Tyrol suffers far less from the explosive decompression than [[Cally Tyrol|Cally]] does.
* In "[[Dirty Hands]]", Tory only suffers a minor injury when a [[Raptor]] crashes into ''[[Colonial One]]'' close to her.
* In the same episode, Tyrol points out to [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] that choice sets them apart from the Cylons.
* The irony of ironies occurs in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]": a Cylon (Tigh) orders three fellow Cylons (Anders, Tory and Tyrol) to help defend the ship from attacking Cylons.
:Great list. I noted the temple because this is around the first point that these are deliberate ironies. RDM has admitted he didn't pick who would be the final 5 until during this season, so the ironies prior to the exodus are probably unintentional. (Also, just like rain on your wedding day, not all these are ironies :-) For example, Tyrol's decompression is much more clearly a plain-old clue, it was in his clue list. We don't know if the F5 were picked during [[Collaborators]] but that is also an interesting irony if they were.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 15:00, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
::I know they're not all ironies (that's why this section is titled "Ironies ''and references''"), and they can't all have been intentional. I just suddenly realized the one in "Resistance" (still one of my favorites in this list), and built the rest of the list around it. It's actually funny to see how many of these ironies/references can be found in the first two seasons. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:58, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

=="What about Ellen?"==
I think the line can be interpreted in ways other than how it was interpreted in this page. I for one thought he was more likely questioning whether she (along with all the other things he mentioned) were real. After all, he had just learned he was a Cylon, which meant something about his life was different.

This is what I thought anywyas, and it makes a little more sense to me. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 04:09, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

:Yeah, we know that Ellen Tigh wasn't a false memory, but Saul Tigh has no way of knowing which parts of his life are false memories or some programmed delusion. I still think it's more likely that he was revisiting his regrets about her death or considering the possibility that Ellen may be a Cylon. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:43, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
::Was mostly just documenting the fact that they don't know yet about their being special Cylons, as revealed in the Podcast. I have edited the text to be more a reporting of facts than a speculation of his motives.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 16:22, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Perfect! Thanks :) .--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:59, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

::I believe [[Ellen Tigh]] is a [[Cylon]]. While there is evidence she has a sister in [[Valley of Darkness]], she fits being a Cylon and she is a female that can fit the profile. [[Number Three]] may have apoligized for her being killed by Tigh.--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 20.19, 2 July 2007

== Proper Noun or not? ==

I think we need some kind of standard here. Either it's "Final Five" or "Final five", but not both. Same with "Significant Seven". Personally I could go either way, but I think most people tend to capitalize the numbers. That would be easier then. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:43, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
:I'd go with Final Five. Shane can probably bot-edit once we've reached consensus on the capitalization. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:02, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
::I agree, since they are sometimes referred only as "The Five" I think the second should be capitalized as well. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21:17, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Yup, Final Five. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 23:23, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
::::For consistency's sake, OK. Same for "Significant Seven" (although that is a production term and not an aired canonical one). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:47, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

== Possible Repercussions Against the Seven ==

Once the fourth seasons of Galactica begins, I, for one, would be thrilled to see what sort of consequences would befall the Cavil models for their actions against Saul; particularly their torturing him mentally and physically.

This, of course, would be provided that whatever repressed memories/programming within them, that is Saul and the other three of five remaining, does not altogether supress the personalities we are familiar with.

And what of Sam regarding the Conoy models' mental torture of Starbuck on New Caprica? Will retribution or amnesty befall Conoy if such a plot or subplot were contemplated by the producers?

I could only imagine how Cally and Kara would react to discovering their spouses are two of the Final Five. I even wonder moreso how Bill (Admiral Adama) will react toward Saul's true race.

Granted, those last two paragraphs had little to do with the possible retribution or amnesty toward the known seven at the hands of Tigh, Tyrol, and Anders; but they are still possibilities worth contemplating.
- {{unsigned|Murrdawg 316}}
:Yeah, the Fantastic Four are in an awkward position. My personal prediction is that the Colonials will meet a Final Five fleet, sending a Tigh copy as a liaison (or a Tyrol/Anders/Tori copy for that matter). That Final Five fleet could appear pretty early: it could be the fleet that jumped into the Ionian System at the end of "[[Crossroads, Part II]]", or they could jump in and defend the Colonials. And we almost forgot to mention Starbuck: she'll have some explaining to do as well. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 07:59, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

== Further Flipping of the original Battlestar Galactica's Script ==

Okay, seeing as such changes in the redefined and more immensely popular version of Battlestar Galactica have occurred as (1) gender reversals of the original Boomer, Starbuck, Cain, and -- if I am not mistaken -- Number Six, (2) making Cain superior in rank to the elder Adama, and (3) making the Cylons self-aware AND humanoid right out of the gate. Wouldn't it also be logical to give Earth the possible advantage of not only being as advanced if not moreso than the Twelve Colonies of Kobol AND also made both peaceful and military resolutions to problems the Colonials had to learn the hard way with the Cylons where the creation of self-aware, replicated humanoids or androids of their own are concerned?

It would be fascinating to hope that Earth, like and yet unlike the Colonies, not only created artificial life, but acknowledged their sentience and right to exist as an equal and independent race either beside or separate from humans; thus being added contributors to the resolution of the Cylon/Colonial conflict as the series meets its eventual end.

Please let me know what you think.

--[[User:Murrdawg 316|Murrdawg 316]] 05:12, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

:Based on the episode events, there is some truth in your fiction. Ron uses the Original Series as a template, but has obviously grown away from most of the storylines that appeared there (and seriously "warps" what he does use). There is one premise that does permeate throughout the Re-imagined Series, whether the Cylons or humanity itself harass the Fleet: "We have seen the enemy, and they are us." Some [[Sacred Scrolls|elements of return and origin]] (a serious plotline of the show) have bigger complications, not only with [[Hera Agathon]] or the Five, but the [[The Destiny|mysterious destiny and return of Kara Thrace]] and the prophecies and involvement of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Lords of Kobol]]. -- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:00, 29 April 2007 (CDT) ([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contrib Skillz]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|Edit Skillz]])

:There are clues that Earth did not have a peaceful creation of its own AIs. The writings of Pythia who "wrote of the exile and rebirth of the human race" 3,600 years BCH are ambiguous, because they are written in the past tense (implying such an exodus in her past) but also treated as prophecies by the colonials for their future. There is not supposed to be any time travel in this show, but there is definitely a theme of repeated cycles of history. However, RDM refuses to answer questions about what Earth is like, though he has worked it out in his internal notes. All we actually have confirmed about Earth (as opposed to learn from colonial mythology) is that whoever took Starbuck brought her there, that its night sky was displayed in the [[Tomb of Athena]] and that it's real and not too far from the [[Ionian nebula]] on a Galactic scale.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:44, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

Guys i don't know about you but i would love to see a conflict resolution similar to Issac Asimovs "Foundation". In the first 2
books, 2 major conficts resolve peacefully yet surprisingly amazing!! [[User:Bbm4n|Bbm4n]] 15:46, 5 February 2008 (CST)

== S3 cliffhanger tag ==

Is the presence of this tag still justified (now that the Four Revealed section has been added)? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 07:13, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:It would be cool to just edit it to "events are under scrutiny...". We no longer need to warn people about edit conflicts and such though. But we could also strike it entirely. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:18, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
::From my point of view, the tag used to mean the article was no longer correct and/or needed to be cleaned up in light of the [[Crossroads, Part II]] events. That issue has now been resolved. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 08:18, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:::The tag (which I created) was primarily to stem the crisis of edit-conflicts, fanwanking, and the like, especially given how the revelations made everything we know almost wrong. It can be removed if the article is now up to date. However, we need to ensure that the [[Humanoid Cylon]] article is noted and how the Final Five contrast and compare, specifically noting how "fundamentally different" they are. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:51, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

== Mevenstar's edit ==

Moved from the article. Please discuss here:

: #1 The Jealous God, #2 Cylon God and #3 One Whose Name cannot be spoken all hint toward a RDM incarnation of Iblis, but as no metaphysical being has been shown yet to exist, nor any AI before the cylons introduced, it seems feasible each of these three descriptions may depict more than one Kobol Lord or the cylon god. There are judeo christian montehists that do not believe in speaking the name of their god Jahovah. The Jealous God can be a lucifer or hades like charcter that has set himself up as the Cylon God, The One whose name cannot be spoken can be a kobol lord that has assumed a Johavah like role in exile with the the thirteenth tribe, and the remaining Kobol Lords are in some way connected to the colonials as pantheon similar in form to Mt. Olympus. They may be real or imagined, metaphysical or AI...and all three groups, colonials, 13th tribe and cylons could be in effect worshipping the same being with radically different interpretaions as to the nature of that being, just like muslims, christains and jews.--[[User:Mevenstar|Mevenstar]] 10:27, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

== Resurrection and multiple copies ==
There's no conclusive evidence supporting multiple copies or resurrection for the Final Five, but there's no conclusive evidence refuting the possibility either. Is there an interview in which it's implied that they cannot resurrect or don't have additional copies? If not, I would prefer a more neutral statement about the lack of evidence either way. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 21:23, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
:Sometime in season 3([[Escape Velocity]]) is rumored that after the Significant Seven become aware that the Final Five(well, at least four) reside in the fleet, they propose to cease attacking them as it is unknown if these Cylons have the ability to resurrect. If they were to die, no where in the Colonial Fleet or Cylon Fleet can the Five, if even, resurrect... Of course, no one knows for sure. -- [[User:Veepz|Veepz]] 22:04, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
::Thanks for pointing it out, I'll add a cite and tweak the note. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:58, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
:::Great! :-) -- [[User:Veepz|Veepz]] 01:43, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

== Possible Cylon ploy ==

----
The whole notion of the final five being based on the two sketches may have more weight than the musical programming but a still a far cry from being reliable. I belive the "fantasitc four" or the "quartet" (hey it's music that drives them) were manipulated by some Cylon psychic or psychological tampering. I mean how is it that now the Cylons are able to follow Galactica? And how then does the non-ressurrectable final 5 come perilously close to being killed (Tyrol about 5 times), Anders (who knows how many times), Tigh (Abused and tortured by the other cylons)...

No I think the Cylons when they captured these at some point had implanted some tracking beacons on them. When Tigh thought the music was coming from the ship he was close, he probably thought there was a tracking device.

I admit I can't find a good explanation for the sketches. But 2 out of 4 of them are recognizeable. And because she was a CYLON, she was not meant to see the true faces of the final 5, maybe what she saw was a distortion and false information.

--[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 20:41, 31 January 2008 (CST)

Talk:Kara Thrace/Archive 1

2008-01-28T18:25:19Z

Bbm4n:

As far as you actually see in the episode 'The Farm' there is only one new abdominal scar on Starbuck. This would suggest that only one of her ovaries has been removed, not two. The podcast may have more precise information, however.

:The phrase "[[CAG]] Second in Command" is a kind of awkward consturction. Can anybody think of a better way to describe her role? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 21:41, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

:: I don't believe that she actually has a title. She's an instructor and Viper pilot... and a crack shot with a sniper rifle. (How she got ''that'' talent is likely a subject of interest...) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:18, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

::: I agree on all counts. The thing is that we know she's understood to be in charge whenever Apollo is indisposed, but CAG Second in Command just doesn't sound quite right. I just don't know what would sound better [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:27, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

::::Senior pilot after Capt. Lee Adama? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Vice-CAG? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 15:45, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:::::: Military wise, she would be the Air Group Executive Officer were she second in command of the pilots. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:34, 18 January 2006 (EST)

==Verb Tense for Zak Stuff==
I reviewed the standards and conventions page, and it seems like the Zak Adama stuff really deserved the past tense since it occured "prior to the Mini-Series". The example in the second paragraph references Zak's funeral, which seems to be a pretty fitting example to apply here. So does all the pre-mini-series go to past tense, or are we going to 100% present tense (in which case we'd probably need to change the standards and conventions page). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:28, 18 January 2006 (EST)

: We can change the standards if we want (I mean--''we''wrote tham, after all), but I think it makes sense... As I was editing that, I was already getting confused about tenses and such, and I only really touched the one paragraph. Joemc72 and I already sorted it out on [[User talk:Day#Past vs Present tense|my Talk page]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:31, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:: I went ahead and reverted it back. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:32, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::SV is correct. Events from the miniseries on are present tense unless confusing. Flashbacks of events prior to miniseries and regular series should be worked as past tense. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)

==Paging Dr. Freud==

In the miniseries, Thrace doesn't tell Adama she doesn't ''have'' a big enough dipstick for his job, but that ''she's'' not a big enough dipstick. It's one line, but this is an unintentionally funny rendering of the quote... if you consider all the folks who were against Starbuck being a girl... [[User:Below|Below]] 16:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)
:Thrace has authority issues when crossed, yes. Not as cavalier about it as the original Starbuck, but then, this is a darker world. When compelled to, however, Thrace can obviously manage the work, even excel. She's still second CAG, now that Adama has returned to that status, and can effectively lead an attack as CAGs do, title or no. Thrace does have the "dipstick"; but she HATES having to deal with mentalities like Tigh. But she hates being out of the pilot's seat more, which gives her a greater sense of control than anything. I'd have Thrace plan any attack, anytime. And, in keeping with the dipstick metaphor, you can always expect her to be on top in almost anything she does. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:08, 3 February 2006 (EST)
Grin. I was thinking that an additional dimension to her authority issues was seen in the last few episodes. I think it would be interesting to integrate into this article if possible, but tonight's episode might have some more to say first. We know she had an abusive mother who served in the military, and identifies with her father. The Admiral is a positive father figure to her, but she's disgusted by Tigh, especially his drinking. (Was alcohol her mother's personal tinderbox?)
Enter Cain. On the one hand, Cain identifies with Thrace and gives her positive reinforcement: eg Do you always get what you want, I usually do. In my viewing, Sackhoff plays it as being both nervous and touched by Cain's approval. (Her mother had said she'd never account to anything: here's a much higher ranking woman claiming that she's capable of greatness.) Pretty clear that Cain wants to mentor Thrace, and sees a "younger self" in the pilot. At the same time, it's not a stretch to parallel the violent, volatile Cain with Thrace's absent, abusive mother. (Michelle Forbes would be a really interesting Medea.)
So Kara is being asked to choose between father figure Adama and mother figure Cain, and shooting Cain may feel like a kind of matricide.
Usually when TV shows or movies set up a young character against "two parents," one good, one bad, it's a young man torn between two fathers or father figures (witness "A Bronx Tale," "Platoon," "Star Wars", many others), so it's interesting to see that dynamic with a young woman. One more reason I love watching this show. [[User:Below|Below]] 11:18, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:Oh yes; for the past few weeks I've been repeatedly asking on the official site's RDM blog thread if they ''intentionally'' wrote it that Starbuck was won over by Cain because it was like her mother giving her the recognition that she never got. Of course, I ask a lot of things there....(I was annoyed when in his recent blog update yesterday A) people sometimes ask questions he's already answered many months ago (like, "Where is Boxey" and "Why don't we see the engine room?"), so B) he didn't realize this (I don't blame him, he's got a lot of work to do) so he wasted a blog entry answering questions that were already answered....except one, btw; apparently, the Presidential election is coming up soon. Probably not by the season 2 finale, obviously, but I got the impression he's playing around with script stuff for it now, and who knows? It might be the season 3 cliffhanger...or at most the season 3 finale. This, of course, would prove that they have indeed jumped several months ahead (once again, how could 2 months pass during Flight of the Phoenix?...but I digress....). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:46, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:: How, you ask? Easily. See, all that we saw on the show was actually in ''fast forward''... See, for that month, Bill had decided that everyone was to do everything at ''one sixth'' of normal speed... Thus, all that took two months. I thought that was obvious. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:01, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Scar==

What's with the "Kara is CAG in Scar" business? It looked like Apollo was still in charge to me. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:27, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Kara was responsible for briefings and I'm pretty sure I heard her referred to as CAG a few times in the episode. --Ltcrashdown 00:29, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Negative, Lieutenant. Kat said to Kara, "The CAG wants us spread out so we can cover more ground. It's right here in the briefings." I'm pretty sure that's accurate, anyway. Someone check me. Anyway, I thought it was clear she was talking about Lee. Now... Why was she doing all the briefings? I have no idea... I thought for a bit that maybe Lee was on ''Pegasus'' doing some kind of fleet-wide-CAG duties, but ''Peggie'' was off protecting the Fleet, so he'd probably not be jumping back and forth to almost have sex with Kara and all that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:56, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Because Lee has seniority over Kara (both are Captains, but he's been one longer, etc) he is in charge of their whole widescale operation. I mean, the guy can't be awake 24 horus a day and be everywhere at once. He needs to delegate duties now and again like this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:59, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Serial Number==
It's partially visible on the dogtag she gave Anders in "Downloaded": ?? 462753 - the two question marks would be letters, and I think the second one is a T, but Lucy Lawless's hand is covering the first. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:30, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I found that Galacticastation has a great screencape [http://www.galacticastation.com/Screencaps/S2/218/bscap414.htm here] of her ID tag. Can you guys tell what it is? It's not a T, it's....I can't tell if it says "ser" for "service number" (thus, not actually part of of the number), or "3er"...which seems odd as this is lowercase.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:03, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
::My first impression is that it is "ser" for serial or service number for the reason it is not together with the number. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:36, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

:Yeah, but Helo has a "PK" prefix to his serial number and Boomer had a "T" prefix. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:07, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

: Just a note, in "[[Collaborators]]" we see the full shot on her id tags during her conversation with Anders. It is prefixed by "ser" (sans quotes). If anyone can get a screencap to confirm, that'd be nice. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:32, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:It says "ser 462753". Screencap here: [http://galacticastation.com/Screencaps/s3/304/lowres/bscap381.htm] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:: Thought so. Thanks Serenity. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:45, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Major Pre-Season 3 Revision ==

As with the central characters [[William Adama]], [[Laura Roslin]], and [[Gaius Baltar]], I've heavily concised this article, removing extraneous episode information, to prepare it for season 3 information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:37, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:I suggest marking this article for cleanup and revision. Kara's biography is still a bit too long and quite messy - it's actually one big unclear stream of facts. I think it should be divided into a few parts, significant and dividing episodes being "Kobol's Last Gleaming", "Home", "Lay Down Your Burdens" and "Collaborators". -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:42, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:I agree to the cleanup and revision of this article, particularly the content added since season 3, as it is inconsistently written. (I've tried to clean it up, but a rewrite is in order for tone issues.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:29, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Socrata Thrace? ==

I've removed this reference because the reference was far too vague; the reference pertains to Thrace's mother, "Socrata".

: ''[[Socrata]] (revealed in TV Guide Magazine)''

If anyone can be specific as to the reference, including but not limited to page number, issue number, publication date, et al, please feel free to add it back in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Done and done. I refrained from the context, though, because what little there is I fear maybe spoilery. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 07:34, 11 December 2006 (CST)

=='''Kara Thrace DEAD?'''==
Now I'm disappointed in Battlestar Galactica. Starbuck was killed off Sunday night or at least we are led to believe she is dead. I like to think there is more to this than what was shown.--[[User:Avazina|Avazina]] 20:21, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:She is definitely dead, but that means nothing in fiction. You're probably right. Don't feel too disappointed; the classical heroes of Greek mythology suffered and died often to fulfill their missions. We're very used to our western heroes always riding off into the sunset to fight another day. Some day the sun will no longer rise. There was a bit in the episode that suggests that Kara is visiting the space between life and death; we'll see. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:47, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::Don't worry, she's merely ascended to another plane of existence. She'll be back next season as an Ancient. I mean, Final Five. Wow, deja vu Atlantis. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 12:49, 7 March 2007 (CST)
:::There's two reasons I'm not accepting her as dead. First, there was heavy foreshadowing in Rapture and Maelstrom hinting that she may be a Cylon. Second, she did not die the way the hero with an important destiny is supposed to. If she died in Resurrection Ship, Scar or The Passage I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons and died trying to escape I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons, decided she had no hope of escape or rescue and killed herself in a final act of defiance against Leoben I'd accept it. I won't accept this until the final five are revealed. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:19, 7 March 2007 (CST)
::::I stand by my idea that she'll be the first of the RDM series' [[Beings of Light]]. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 11:27, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::Didn't she say something like episodes 13 and 19 will be very important for her character? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:53, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::::::Eick said that 16 (Maelstrom) and 19 (Crossroads Pt. II) will have a lot of revelations on Lee and Kara's romance. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 14:50, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::::I think that Starbuck will be back, but not Katee Sackhoff. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:19, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::::::::Interesting idea... how do you think they'd implement it? (If it were to happen, that is.) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:25, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::::::I think the two most likely possibilities are that Lee or Anders finds a note or letter among Kara's belongings, or that Kara is revealed to be a Cylon. I don't think they'll recast her because it's a tacky and overused soap opera and pulp sci-fi cliche. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:00, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::Kara cant be a cylon because she was a child and Cylons do not make copies of already or once living people. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 06:54, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::Kara remembers being a child. Baltar remembers being a child too, that doesn't disqualify him, and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] also probably has false childhood memories. And Socrata could be another Cylon, or a hallucination, there's no proof that anyone other than Kara saw her. I'm not saying she's a Cylon, I'm just saying that the possibility hasn't been eliminated. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::AFAIK, Socrata served in the 1st war. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:52, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::Yes, Socrata served in the first war. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:22, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::According to Kara's own memories her mother was a veteran of the first war, I'm not aware of any third-party corroboration, and it's an established fact that Cylon sleeper agents have false memories. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:38, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::::Socrata received some kind of medal for service in the war. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:59, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::And Boomer received elephant sculptures from her parents when she went to Fleet Academy. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 06:50, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::::::There's a difference. There must be records in military archives of Socrata's medal (If any archives still exist, that is). Records that date back to the first war. The Cylons weren't infiltrating then. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:51, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::::Who saw or heard of Socrata and had both the motivation and the opportunity to check the military records? We know that Boomer managed to get past any background checks and identity verification the colonial military may have used. We also know that colonial computer security was extremely lax during the fall of the twelve colonies. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:06, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
One possibility is that Thrace (in a past life as the Lord of Kobol, Aurora) helped ''build'' the Temple of Five, knew what the Earth hologram was in "Home, Part II" because she experienced it before, and that, while we may not see her again, bodily, Thrace will be the guiding force (through artifacts and other finds) that will be reflected in not-too-subtle messages on the path, leaving clues as to the clue's author (Thrace). Perhaps Kara Thrace, not Laura Roslin, is the "dying leader" in the Pythian Prophecy. Just a wild speculation, but it fits with some clues, particularly the Eye. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:40, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:I still think Starbuck is the first of the RDM [[Beings of Light]]. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 06:01, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
---Bruzer you know part of my theory but for everyone here I'll post it as well. I personaly belive it will come down to Starbuck being a "Jesus" figure from a Lord of Kobol I'm not 100% sure how the writers will make this happen but I think what we saw in that ep was her basically going to meet "daddy". The speculation about her being one of the final 5 isn't true, she is meant for much more then that. I also think in addition to the final 5 we will see the Lords of Kobol on Sunday, this will be the biggest shock of the year as well. You know how the writers like to take us, make us expect to be surprised one way but shock us with something new in the finales. We may even see Baltar be found not guilty, on a side note I think he's the same as Starbuck here but his "daddy" is who I will call Hades, the Fallen Lord who became the Cylon god. --[[User:Hentai Jeff|Hentai Jeff]] 05:49, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

==='''Kara Thrace is back!!'''===
I wondered how they were going to play out Kara's "Death" and I'm satisfied if not even more intrigued by the out come. Glad she is back.--[[User:Avazina|Avazina]] 22:39, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

== The Destiny ==

Not wanting to separate this into its own article, and knowing that this article may not grow for a while (if ever), I added some [[BW:CJ#Derived Content|sourced speculation]] on Thrace's destiny based on series information in an attempt to tie it together. Hopefully it may enlighten some readers as to the sum data on what is known and lead some insight for the character's actions in the future (if any). Ron Moore does [[Podcast:Maelstrom|note]] that the character's "destiny" was not merely to die in a Viper, so this likelihood of something about the character being revealed in season 4 is a probability. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
:As I have said. '''[[Beings of Light|BEING. OF. FRAKKING. LIGHT.]]''' --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:57, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

== Death Confirmed? ==
In the podcast for Crossroads, Part II:
"Did her death have any meaning? Her death didn't have meaning, but the resurrection of Kara does."
Looks like she really bought it. How the resurrection was facilitated is the big question... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:38, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
:It could also refer to a symbolic death and resurrection. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:24, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

== Kinda funny ==

Some of you might find [http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/061226.html this "Sheldon" comic] amusing. I did. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:20, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:Perfect. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:45, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

== Young Kara photo ==

We should probably add a screenshot of Kara when she was younger somewhere here. It should be available from "[[Maelstrom]]". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 18:38, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
:Done --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:15, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

== By Your Command ==
While visiting [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maelstrom_%28Battlestar_Galactica%29 Wikipedia's article about Maelstrom], I noticed a neat trivia piece that I have confirmed independently. Right before Kara's Viper explodes at the climax of "[[Maelstrom]]", if one listens closely (on a DD 5.1 system or with headphones, if one has the iTunes download), one can hear the distinctive voice of an original series (or Guardian, as per the events of "[[Razor]]") Cylon Centurion say "By your command" (the word "command" is muffled by the explosion). At first I thought it was some sound effect used to illustrate the stress of the gas giant's atmosphere on Kara's Viper, but the words "By your" are clearly discernable. I'm not sure if this is something for placement in either the Maelstrom or Kara Thrace articles, so I will leave this up to y'all's better judgment. Thank you. {{unsigned|Jonfucius}}
: I've seen this discussion on the Skiffy boards after the episode aired... Frankly, I never heard it myself, even when this discussion first started way back when... It would be nice if we had a soundbyte to test, because I'm sure [[User:Peter Farago|Peter]] can take a crack at it and give us something definitive one way or another. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 22:35, 3 December 2007 (CST)
::I have a casual (at best) sound setup and my VCR seems so to be setting foot with its last legs and threading a warbling in the audio, but I played this and I can ceratinly hear an old school Cylon metallic noise as the Viper explodes, so I'm willing to believe this, but I'd prefer to hear a sample with a better audible pitch. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 16:26, 5 December 2007 (CST)

==Season 3 - last episode==
Regarding the last part of the article there is a point that says that when Kara re-appears near Lee's viper she's riding a brand new Viper Mark II. Cause i read the wiki just after i saw the episode i think this is totally wrong imho. I have saved a screenshot , just at the moment camera seems to go away from both ships http://picasaweb.google.com/billbrando and you can clearly see the differences at the engine part and at the wings structure. If Lee is indeed flying a Viper Mark II what is Kara riding? {{unsigned|Bbm4n}}
:The point is that the Viper has a pristine paintjob and isn't scratched up like all the others (though that's only said in [[The Destiny]] and [[Ionian Nebula]] I think). Of course Lee is in a Mark VII. The article doesn't say anything else. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:36, 28 January 2008 (CST)
:See also [[Viper Mark II]] and [[Viper Mark VII]] for pictures of both Viper models. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:40, 28 January 2008 (CST)
so if i get it right from the images, the red lined Viper (Mark II) is the one that is piloted by Kara and the unpainted one is a Viper Mark VII piloted by Apollo. I thought he was piloting a Mark II but you're right that must be one from Pegasus.[[User:Bbm4n|Bbm4n]] 12:25, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Talk:Kara Thrace/Archive 1

2008-01-28T17:04:40Z

Bbm4n:

As far as you actually see in the episode 'The Farm' there is only one new abdominal scar on Starbuck. This would suggest that only one of her ovaries has been removed, not two. The podcast may have more precise information, however.

:The phrase "[[CAG]] Second in Command" is a kind of awkward consturction. Can anybody think of a better way to describe her role? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 21:41, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

:: I don't believe that she actually has a title. She's an instructor and Viper pilot... and a crack shot with a sniper rifle. (How she got ''that'' talent is likely a subject of interest...) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:18, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

::: I agree on all counts. The thing is that we know she's understood to be in charge whenever Apollo is indisposed, but CAG Second in Command just doesn't sound quite right. I just don't know what would sound better [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:27, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

::::Senior pilot after Capt. Lee Adama? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Vice-CAG? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 15:45, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:::::: Military wise, she would be the Air Group Executive Officer were she second in command of the pilots. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:34, 18 January 2006 (EST)

==Season 3 - last episode==
Regarding the last part of the article there is a point that says that when Kara re-appears near Lee's viper she's riding a brand new Viper Mark II. Cause i read the wiki just after i saw the episode i think this is totally wrong imho. I have saved a screenshot , just at the moment camera seems to go away from both ships http://picasaweb.google.com/billbrando and you can clearly see the differences at the engine part and at the wings structure. If Lee is indeed flying a Viper Mark II what is Kara riding?

==Verb Tense for Zak Stuff==
I reviewed the standards and conventions page, and it seems like the Zak Adama stuff really deserved the past tense since it occured "prior to the Mini-Series". The example in the second paragraph references Zak's funeral, which seems to be a pretty fitting example to apply here. So does all the pre-mini-series go to past tense, or are we going to 100% present tense (in which case we'd probably need to change the standards and conventions page). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:28, 18 January 2006 (EST)

: We can change the standards if we want (I mean--''we''wrote tham, after all), but I think it makes sense... As I was editing that, I was already getting confused about tenses and such, and I only really touched the one paragraph. Joemc72 and I already sorted it out on [[User talk:Day#Past vs Present tense|my Talk page]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:31, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:: I went ahead and reverted it back. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:32, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::SV is correct. Events from the miniseries on are present tense unless confusing. Flashbacks of events prior to miniseries and regular series should be worked as past tense. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)

==Paging Dr. Freud==

In the miniseries, Thrace doesn't tell Adama she doesn't ''have'' a big enough dipstick for his job, but that ''she's'' not a big enough dipstick. It's one line, but this is an unintentionally funny rendering of the quote... if you consider all the folks who were against Starbuck being a girl... [[User:Below|Below]] 16:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)
:Thrace has authority issues when crossed, yes. Not as cavalier about it as the original Starbuck, but then, this is a darker world. When compelled to, however, Thrace can obviously manage the work, even excel. She's still second CAG, now that Adama has returned to that status, and can effectively lead an attack as CAGs do, title or no. Thrace does have the "dipstick"; but she HATES having to deal with mentalities like Tigh. But she hates being out of the pilot's seat more, which gives her a greater sense of control than anything. I'd have Thrace plan any attack, anytime. And, in keeping with the dipstick metaphor, you can always expect her to be on top in almost anything she does. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:08, 3 February 2006 (EST)
Grin. I was thinking that an additional dimension to her authority issues was seen in the last few episodes. I think it would be interesting to integrate into this article if possible, but tonight's episode might have some more to say first. We know she had an abusive mother who served in the military, and identifies with her father. The Admiral is a positive father figure to her, but she's disgusted by Tigh, especially his drinking. (Was alcohol her mother's personal tinderbox?)
Enter Cain. On the one hand, Cain identifies with Thrace and gives her positive reinforcement: eg Do you always get what you want, I usually do. In my viewing, Sackhoff plays it as being both nervous and touched by Cain's approval. (Her mother had said she'd never account to anything: here's a much higher ranking woman claiming that she's capable of greatness.) Pretty clear that Cain wants to mentor Thrace, and sees a "younger self" in the pilot. At the same time, it's not a stretch to parallel the violent, volatile Cain with Thrace's absent, abusive mother. (Michelle Forbes would be a really interesting Medea.)
So Kara is being asked to choose between father figure Adama and mother figure Cain, and shooting Cain may feel like a kind of matricide.
Usually when TV shows or movies set up a young character against "two parents," one good, one bad, it's a young man torn between two fathers or father figures (witness "A Bronx Tale," "Platoon," "Star Wars", many others), so it's interesting to see that dynamic with a young woman. One more reason I love watching this show. [[User:Below|Below]] 11:18, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:Oh yes; for the past few weeks I've been repeatedly asking on the official site's RDM blog thread if they ''intentionally'' wrote it that Starbuck was won over by Cain because it was like her mother giving her the recognition that she never got. Of course, I ask a lot of things there....(I was annoyed when in his recent blog update yesterday A) people sometimes ask questions he's already answered many months ago (like, "Where is Boxey" and "Why don't we see the engine room?"), so B) he didn't realize this (I don't blame him, he's got a lot of work to do) so he wasted a blog entry answering questions that were already answered....except one, btw; apparently, the Presidential election is coming up soon. Probably not by the season 2 finale, obviously, but I got the impression he's playing around with script stuff for it now, and who knows? It might be the season 3 cliffhanger...or at most the season 3 finale. This, of course, would prove that they have indeed jumped several months ahead (once again, how could 2 months pass during Flight of the Phoenix?...but I digress....). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:46, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:: How, you ask? Easily. See, all that we saw on the show was actually in ''fast forward''... See, for that month, Bill had decided that everyone was to do everything at ''one sixth'' of normal speed... Thus, all that took two months. I thought that was obvious. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:01, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Scar==

What's with the "Kara is CAG in Scar" business? It looked like Apollo was still in charge to me. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:27, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Kara was responsible for briefings and I'm pretty sure I heard her referred to as CAG a few times in the episode. --Ltcrashdown 00:29, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Negative, Lieutenant. Kat said to Kara, "The CAG wants us spread out so we can cover more ground. It's right here in the briefings." I'm pretty sure that's accurate, anyway. Someone check me. Anyway, I thought it was clear she was talking about Lee. Now... Why was she doing all the briefings? I have no idea... I thought for a bit that maybe Lee was on ''Pegasus'' doing some kind of fleet-wide-CAG duties, but ''Peggie'' was off protecting the Fleet, so he'd probably not be jumping back and forth to almost have sex with Kara and all that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:56, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Because Lee has seniority over Kara (both are Captains, but he's been one longer, etc) he is in charge of their whole widescale operation. I mean, the guy can't be awake 24 horus a day and be everywhere at once. He needs to delegate duties now and again like this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:59, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Serial Number==
It's partially visible on the dogtag she gave Anders in "Downloaded": ?? 462753 - the two question marks would be letters, and I think the second one is a T, but Lucy Lawless's hand is covering the first. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:30, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I found that Galacticastation has a great screencape [http://www.galacticastation.com/Screencaps/S2/218/bscap414.htm here] of her ID tag. Can you guys tell what it is? It's not a T, it's....I can't tell if it says "ser" for "service number" (thus, not actually part of of the number), or "3er"...which seems odd as this is lowercase.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:03, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
::My first impression is that it is "ser" for serial or service number for the reason it is not together with the number. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:36, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

:Yeah, but Helo has a "PK" prefix to his serial number and Boomer had a "T" prefix. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:07, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

: Just a note, in "[[Collaborators]]" we see the full shot on her id tags during her conversation with Anders. It is prefixed by "ser" (sans quotes). If anyone can get a screencap to confirm, that'd be nice. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:32, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:It says "ser 462753". Screencap here: [http://galacticastation.com/Screencaps/s3/304/lowres/bscap381.htm] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:: Thought so. Thanks Serenity. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:45, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Major Pre-Season 3 Revision ==

As with the central characters [[William Adama]], [[Laura Roslin]], and [[Gaius Baltar]], I've heavily concised this article, removing extraneous episode information, to prepare it for season 3 information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:37, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:I suggest marking this article for cleanup and revision. Kara's biography is still a bit too long and quite messy - it's actually one big unclear stream of facts. I think it should be divided into a few parts, significant and dividing episodes being "Kobol's Last Gleaming", "Home", "Lay Down Your Burdens" and "Collaborators". -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:42, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:I agree to the cleanup and revision of this article, particularly the content added since season 3, as it is inconsistently written. (I've tried to clean it up, but a rewrite is in order for tone issues.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:29, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Socrata Thrace? ==

I've removed this reference because the reference was far too vague; the reference pertains to Thrace's mother, "Socrata".

: ''[[Socrata]] (revealed in TV Guide Magazine)''

If anyone can be specific as to the reference, including but not limited to page number, issue number, publication date, et al, please feel free to add it back in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Done and done. I refrained from the context, though, because what little there is I fear maybe spoilery. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 07:34, 11 December 2006 (CST)

=='''Kara Thrace DEAD?'''==
Now I'm disappointed in Battlestar Galactica. Starbuck was killed off Sunday night or at least we are led to believe she is dead. I like to think there is more to this than what was shown.--[[User:Avazina|Avazina]] 20:21, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:She is definitely dead, but that means nothing in fiction. You're probably right. Don't feel too disappointed; the classical heroes of Greek mythology suffered and died often to fulfill their missions. We're very used to our western heroes always riding off into the sunset to fight another day. Some day the sun will no longer rise. There was a bit in the episode that suggests that Kara is visiting the space between life and death; we'll see. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:47, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::Don't worry, she's merely ascended to another plane of existence. She'll be back next season as an Ancient. I mean, Final Five. Wow, deja vu Atlantis. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 12:49, 7 March 2007 (CST)
:::There's two reasons I'm not accepting her as dead. First, there was heavy foreshadowing in Rapture and Maelstrom hinting that she may be a Cylon. Second, she did not die the way the hero with an important destiny is supposed to. If she died in Resurrection Ship, Scar or The Passage I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons and died trying to escape I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons, decided she had no hope of escape or rescue and killed herself in a final act of defiance against Leoben I'd accept it. I won't accept this until the final five are revealed. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:19, 7 March 2007 (CST)
::::I stand by my idea that she'll be the first of the RDM series' [[Beings of Light]]. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 11:27, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::Didn't she say something like episodes 13 and 19 will be very important for her character? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:53, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::::::Eick said that 16 (Maelstrom) and 19 (Crossroads Pt. II) will have a lot of revelations on Lee and Kara's romance. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 14:50, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::::I think that Starbuck will be back, but not Katee Sackhoff. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:19, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::::::::Interesting idea... how do you think they'd implement it? (If it were to happen, that is.) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:25, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::::::I think the two most likely possibilities are that Lee or Anders finds a note or letter among Kara's belongings, or that Kara is revealed to be a Cylon. I don't think they'll recast her because it's a tacky and overused soap opera and pulp sci-fi cliche. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:00, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::Kara cant be a cylon because she was a child and Cylons do not make copies of already or once living people. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 06:54, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::Kara remembers being a child. Baltar remembers being a child too, that doesn't disqualify him, and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] also probably has false childhood memories. And Socrata could be another Cylon, or a hallucination, there's no proof that anyone other than Kara saw her. I'm not saying she's a Cylon, I'm just saying that the possibility hasn't been eliminated. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::AFAIK, Socrata served in the 1st war. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:52, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::Yes, Socrata served in the first war. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:22, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::According to Kara's own memories her mother was a veteran of the first war, I'm not aware of any third-party corroboration, and it's an established fact that Cylon sleeper agents have false memories. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:38, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::::Socrata received some kind of medal for service in the war. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:59, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::And Boomer received elephant sculptures from her parents when she went to Fleet Academy. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 06:50, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::::::There's a difference. There must be records in military archives of Socrata's medal (If any archives still exist, that is). Records that date back to the first war. The Cylons weren't infiltrating then. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:51, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::::Who saw or heard of Socrata and had both the motivation and the opportunity to check the military records? We know that Boomer managed to get past any background checks and identity verification the colonial military may have used. We also know that colonial computer security was extremely lax during the fall of the twelve colonies. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:06, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
One possibility is that Thrace (in a past life as the Lord of Kobol, Aurora) helped ''build'' the Temple of Five, knew what the Earth hologram was in "Home, Part II" because she experienced it before, and that, while we may not see her again, bodily, Thrace will be the guiding force (through artifacts and other finds) that will be reflected in not-too-subtle messages on the path, leaving clues as to the clue's author (Thrace). Perhaps Kara Thrace, not Laura Roslin, is the "dying leader" in the Pythian Prophecy. Just a wild speculation, but it fits with some clues, particularly the Eye. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:40, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:I still think Starbuck is the first of the RDM [[Beings of Light]]. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 06:01, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
---Bruzer you know part of my theory but for everyone here I'll post it as well. I personaly belive it will come down to Starbuck being a "Jesus" figure from a Lord of Kobol I'm not 100% sure how the writers will make this happen but I think what we saw in that ep was her basically going to meet "daddy". The speculation about her being one of the final 5 isn't true, she is meant for much more then that. I also think in addition to the final 5 we will see the Lords of Kobol on Sunday, this will be the biggest shock of the year as well. You know how the writers like to take us, make us expect to be surprised one way but shock us with something new in the finales. We may even see Baltar be found not guilty, on a side note I think he's the same as Starbuck here but his "daddy" is who I will call Hades, the Fallen Lord who became the Cylon god. --[[User:Hentai Jeff|Hentai Jeff]] 05:49, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

==='''Kara Thrace is back!!'''===
I wondered how they were going to play out Kara's "Death" and I'm satisfied if not even more intrigued by the out come. Glad she is back.--[[User:Avazina|Avazina]] 22:39, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

== The Destiny ==

Not wanting to separate this into its own article, and knowing that this article may not grow for a while (if ever), I added some [[BW:CJ#Derived Content|sourced speculation]] on Thrace's destiny based on series information in an attempt to tie it together. Hopefully it may enlighten some readers as to the sum data on what is known and lead some insight for the character's actions in the future (if any). Ron Moore does [[Podcast:Maelstrom|note]] that the character's "destiny" was not merely to die in a Viper, so this likelihood of something about the character being revealed in season 4 is a probability. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
:As I have said. '''[[Beings of Light|BEING. OF. FRAKKING. LIGHT.]]''' --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:57, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

== Death Confirmed? ==
In the podcast for Crossroads, Part II:
"Did her death have any meaning? Her death didn't have meaning, but the resurrection of Kara does."
Looks like she really bought it. How the resurrection was facilitated is the big question... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:38, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
:It could also refer to a symbolic death and resurrection. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:24, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

== Kinda funny ==

Some of you might find [http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/061226.html this "Sheldon" comic] amusing. I did. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:20, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:Perfect. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:45, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

== Young Kara photo ==

We should probably add a screenshot of Kara when she was younger somewhere here. It should be available from "[[Maelstrom]]". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 18:38, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
:Done --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:15, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

== By Your Command ==
While visiting [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maelstrom_%28Battlestar_Galactica%29 Wikipedia's article about Maelstrom], I noticed a neat trivia piece that I have confirmed independently. Right before Kara's Viper explodes at the climax of "[[Maelstrom]]", if one listens closely (on a DD 5.1 system or with headphones, if one has the iTunes download), one can hear the distinctive voice of an original series (or Guardian, as per the events of "[[Razor]]") Cylon Centurion say "By your command" (the word "command" is muffled by the explosion). At first I thought it was some sound effect used to illustrate the stress of the gas giant's atmosphere on Kara's Viper, but the words "By your" are clearly discernable. I'm not sure if this is something for placement in either the Maelstrom or Kara Thrace articles, so I will leave this up to y'all's better judgment. Thank you. {{unsigned|Jonfucius}}
: I've seen this discussion on the Skiffy boards after the episode aired... Frankly, I never heard it myself, even when this discussion first started way back when... It would be nice if we had a soundbyte to test, because I'm sure [[User:Peter Farago|Peter]] can take a crack at it and give us something definitive one way or another. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 22:35, 3 December 2007 (CST)
::I have a casual (at best) sound setup and my VCR seems so to be setting foot with its last legs and threading a warbling in the audio, but I played this and I can ceratinly hear an old school Cylon metallic noise as the Viper explodes, so I'm willing to believe this, but I'd prefer to hear a sample with a better audible pitch. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 16:26, 5 December 2007 (CST)