Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank

2009-03-25T19:15:39Z

Alpha5099: /* Current ideas */

{{project|Think Tank|image=BSG WIKI ThinkTank.png|shortcut=BW:TANK}}

The '''Think Tank''' is a way to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] and get other people to help in your quest to make bold actions on the wiki. The following are items that are considered major decisions which must go through the Think Tank vetting process prior to '''any''' implementation:

* New policy proposals.
* New projects.
* New templates.
* Extensive modifications to already existing policies.
* Anything considered major by administrator (and/or community) consensus.

Any of these must be proposed prior to implementation. This process ensures that the originator of the idea receives the proper feedback and that all ideas are properly fleshed out prior to any wiki-wide implementation. Basically, "let's make a plan before we hit the ground running".

= Procedures =

To propose a new idea, add the name of the idea below:

<inputbox>
type=create
width=75
prefix=Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/
default=Name of idea
buttonlabel=Create Idea
preload=Template:thinktank
</inputbox>
#Save page, then re-edit. Fill out all applicable fields.
#Once you're done, save the page and add the following to '''Current ideas''':
#: <tt><nowiki>* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/name of idea]]</nowiki></tt>

== Instructions ==

The input of all interested members of the community is needed for the Think Tank to operate properly. Any user may comment on proposed ideas on the discussion page of the proposal. (Comments should not be added to the actual proposal itself. Also, do note that changes to the proposal itself should be made when consensus on debated items is determined.)

Should a vote be necessary to determine consensus, all administrators are required to vote on the proposal, using {{tl|oppose}}, {{tl|support}} or {{tl|neutral}}, with explainations on their vote.

For voting, a reasonable time frame must be put into place; the default deadline for voting on proposals should be seven days. When indicating a deadline, please include the date ''and'' time in UTC. Deadlines can be extended, but only if the necessity of such an action is determined by a majority.

== Administrator instructions ==

To determine consensus at the end of voting, add up the total number of support votes and divide by the total number of votes. Should the number meet or exceed 80%, then the Think Tank proposal passes. Anything between 45-55% of support will be considered as not having achieved consensus. '''Proposals that have not achieved consensus are to be shelved for a period time until it can be brought back into the light.'''

Once done, the proposals are to be archived for future reference, and separated into three groups: '''Successful proposals''', '''Unsuccessful proposals''', and '''Proposals without consensus'''.

To archive a page, add ''one'' the following to the top of each page:

# For successful proposals: {{tl|ttp}}
# For unsuccessful proposals: {{tl|ttu}}
# For proposals without consensus: {{tl|ttnc}}

And to all proposals, add the following to the ''bottom'': {{tl|ttf}}

= Ideas =

This is where all the ideas are located and, when applicable, archived.

== Current ideas ==
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Battlestar Galactica II Project Restoration]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Leaked Policy]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/"Answered Questions" section]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Family Trees]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Ticket System]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Episode airdate information]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Character Bio Project]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Character Appearances]]

== Current ideas under Vote ==

== Past ideas ==

=== Successful proposals ===

* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Admin name change]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Translations Standards and Conventions]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Separate continuity change]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/TOS Article Pips]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Deletion Archives]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Red Link Policy]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/News Policy]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Video Ext]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/MySpace Presence]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/TV Companies]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Portal:Merchandise]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Username policy]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Episode pages are not forums]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Audio Clip Project]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Wiki Blog]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Things you just don't do, not even in war]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Leave of Absence]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Affiliate Stores]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Wikipedia Policies]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/DVD Project]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Audio Project]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Star of Kobol]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Episode Standardization]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Move Squad]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Cite Templates]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Official Representation]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Episode number links]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Biography Standardization]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/CSS Layout]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Separate continuity]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Fanwanking]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Q and A, Video Blogs, Etc. Project]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Galactica 1980 Improvement Project]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Sidebar Redesign]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Hulu Episodes]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Forum implementation]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/References accessible to anyone]]

=== Unsuccessful proposals ===

* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Poll Template]] - Failed July 19, 2006
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Episode Transcripts]] - Failed October 10, 2006
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/RC Patrol]] - Failed October 23, 2006
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Image Cropping Promo Images]] - Failed September 20, 2006
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Rating System]] - Failed February 15, 2007
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Copyright Strategy]] -''de facto'' failure, April 11, 2007
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Errors Policy]] - Failed June 18, 2007
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/WGA Strike]] - Failed November 15, 2007

=== Proposals without consensus ===
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/User Spotlight]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/IRC]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Birthday in Quotes]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Links Discretion]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Lists of Unnamed characters]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/RfA Amendments]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/New User Survey]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Image Naming Conventions]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Goofs and Mistakes series]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Deletion discussions]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Research proposal for Cylon name]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Female Involvement]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Promotional Images]]
* [[Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Archivestarwiki]]

: '''''Note:''' These proposals are rendered inactive. It is recommended that they are to stay that way for a pre-determined period of time, until they can be revisited with refreshed minds.''

Battlestar Wiki:Think Tank/Character Appearances

2009-03-25T19:14:57Z

Alpha5099: Created page with 'I feel that it would be helpful to contain on each character's page a list of all the episodes they have appeared in, or, in the case of the major characters who appear in almost...'

I feel that it would be helpful to contain on each character's page a list of all the episodes they have appeared in, or, in the case of the major characters who appear in almost every episode, a list of episodes they do not appear in. What we currently have is this [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/List_of_character_appearances_(RDM)], which is rather clunky and rarely updated. A better style, I feel, would be to take a page from Memory Alpha, the Trek Wiki, which contains this kind of information on each character page, as in this example [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dukat#Appearances].

Now that the series is over, there would be little need for keeping these sections up to date, except for the additional appearances characters will be making in the plan. If we added such a section to character bios, it would be much easier to quickly determine which episodes have, for instance, Kat or Simon. Now, you either have to check each and every citation within the bio, or scour through that matrix of data. A list on each page would be a much simpler and intuitive way to make this information easily available.

[[Category:Think Tank proposals|{{SUBPAGENAME}}]]

Talk:Cult of Baltar/Archive 1

2009-03-13T21:37:09Z

Alpha5099:

Has the Cult of Baltar taken over duties as a policing force? does this relate to the Arrangement that Baltar and Adama came to at the end of - I think it was No Exit? There is a cult member in the daycare when Boomer takes Hera and drugs her in "Someone to watch over me." -- [[User:Furyofaseraph|Furyofaseraph]] 20:41, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Is it just me that think Gaius's Angels sounds silly? Baltar's Angels sounds much better --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 14:26, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
:Well, it may be less confusing to TOS Baltar searches, but as its a riff on the US TV show "Charlie's Angels", there you go. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:28, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
::I think that association veers close to "silly" territory. At first I thought this was a joke. If a more serious term is desired, maybe "Baltar's rescuers"? Helpers? Saviors? (too religious maybe) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:50, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
:::What article even points to this? The fact that it is currently an orphan is tantamount to painting a laser on it (for a laser-guided delete). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:54, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
:::I was rather debating on whether or not to throw the {{tl|sillypage}} tag onto it. Having said this, I think the article is important enough to exist, particularly in light of seeing that these women are rabid Baltar fans who believe him to be some sort of messiah. (Remember that the [[Jeanne|young woman]] goes to Baltar's cell and asks to bless her ill child.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:11, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
::::Yeah, it definitely does have relevance to the show, but I'd prefer a more serious title, as the content isn't silly. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:49, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
:::::Article is no longer orphaned. I'm sure we'll get a canonical name of some sort in the new season, either a name they use to refer to themselves, or how the Fleet leadership refers to them. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 09:28, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
::::::I've removed the "Silly", as to me "Silly" generally implies it is not necessarily canon. Also it's not funny. I expect the "Church of Baltar" will be a significant part of season 4. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 17:00, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
:::::::You've got that right. LOL -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 05:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
== Bets on Gaius' New Life ==

# Gigolo to women who like men from Caprica who can "talk nerdy" to them.
# Pharmaceutical expert for designing new contraceptive drugs.
# Pharmaceutical expert for designing new contraceptive drugs, which he will then test ''as'' a gigolo. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:27, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

== This cult... ==

They are totally nutz [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 17:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
: In future episodes, I'm expecting <s>[[w:Charles Manson|Charles Manson]]</s> Baltar to decrypt "[[w:Helter Skelter|Helter Skelter]]" and other Beatles music... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

== The Symbol ==
Does anyone else think the cult's symbol looks like a modified version of the Aries astrological symbol? I just kind of assumed it was sort of expanding the general early Christianity allusions that pervade the cult, by taking a symbol of their oppression (not that Aries and Ares are the same, but using something maybe associated with the Sons of Ares like early Christians adopted the cross) and subverting it as a symbol of solidarity. Probably going out on a limb there, but I see a ram in that symbol. [[User:Alpha5099|alpha5099]] 21:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Someone to Watch Over Me

2009-02-28T19:30:32Z

Alpha5099: /* Analysis */ Minor. Changing "she" to "Boomer" to eliminate potential pronoun ambiguity.

{{Episode Data
| image=SomeoneWatchingOverMe.jpg
| title= Someone To Watch Over Me
| season= 4
| episode=17
| guests=
| writer=
| story=
| director=
| production=419
| rating=
| US airdate=February 27, 2009 <ref>http://tv.ign.com/articles/920/920164p1.html</ref>
| CAN airdate=February 27, 2009
| UK airdate=March 3, 2009
| dvd=
| population=39556
| oldpopulation=39556
| prev=[[Deadlock]]
| next=[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]
}}

== Overview ==
[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] discovers a hidden musical ability that bears a mysterious significance to the final five Cylons, and her tune is found to have a connection with three-year-old human-Cylon hybrid [[Hera Agathon|Hera]]. The president authorizes [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]'s release from the Brig so she can stand trial for treason on the Cylon Base Ship. <ref>http://www.locatetv.com/tv/battlestar-galactica/season-4/6118356</ref>

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
* [[Lee Adama]] only appears in a scene or two.
* [[Gaius Baltar]] does not appear in this episode.
* Someone To Watch Over Me is the name of a song composed by George and Ira Gershwin, and featured in the musical Oh, Kay! A major theme of the song is the need to find love and acceptance.
** There was also an episode of [[w:Star Trek: Voyager|Star Trek: Voyager]] named for the song, in which it is performed at the end by The Doctor.
* Weeks have passed since the end of [[Gaeta's Mutiny|the mutiny]], evidenced by [[Cottle]]'s comment about how long Anders' EKG readings have remained steady.
* After her apparent death in "[[Maelstrom]]", Kara's personal belongings were auctioned off. Helo has managed to get them all back for her. However, the only thing Kara is interested in is her father's music tape.

== Analysis ==
* The Cylons seem to have officially joined the Fleet as they now have the representation they wanted on the new Quorum in the form of a Six named Sonja. It is also confirmed that Cylon and Colonial pilots are performing joint [[CAP]]s.
* Ellen's escape from Cavil seems to have been orchestrated between him and Boomer in order to get Boomer on ''Galactica'' so she could kidnap Hera.
* It would appear that while Cavil was willing to let Ellen go in order to obtain Hera, members of the [[Final Five]] are still of some value to him, as evidenced by Boomer's offer for Tyrol to go with her.
* The Final Five have the same [[Projection|projection]] ability as the Cylons they created. Cylons can share projections with each other.
* Projections can include not just imaginary environments but also imaginary people, such as Boomer and Tyrol's "daughter" Dionne.
* ''Galactica'' is in very bad shape from the metal fatigue in the hull. It's so bad that Tyrol says that all the [[Cylon organic resin]] could do is buy a little more time, but not too much from the looks of it. The ship is dying of old age and there's nothing anyone can do save it completely. The damage Boomer created during her escape has no doubt worsened the ship's condition.
* Adama has still not forgiven Boomer for shooting him.
* Boomer has gone from being a conflicted sleeper agent to being a willing infiltrator and saboteur on ''Galactica''.
* Boomer seduces [[Helo]] by pretending to be [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]]. This is ironic seeing how on [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]], Athena seduced Helo by pretending to be Boomer.
* Boomer's seduction of Helo - in the presence of Athena - may have been motivated by a desire to exact revenge on Athena for having effectively taken over her old life on ''Galactica.''
* The Final Five, [[Hera Agathon]], and [[Kara Thrace]] are all somehow connected to each other by [[The Music]]. Also possibly connected via the song is Kara's [[Dreilide Thrace|mysterious father]].

== Questions ==
* Is Boomer taking Hera to Cavil, and if so, is she of value to him in and of herself or will he ransom her for the Final Five to rebuild resurrection? Or is Boomer working alone or for a third party?
* Is the Eight switched with Boomer by Tyrol dead, or merely injured?
** Probably merely injured. It is doubtful Tyrol would have gone so far as to actually kill another Eight to save Boomer. Furthermore, if the Eight had been dead, Tyrol's trickery would have been discovered more quickly.
* What is Roslin's physical status?
* What connection is there between Roslin's collapse and Hera's kidnapping?
* If Tyrol had gone with Boomer, would Cavil have opened his brain as he threatened to do with Ellen?
* Did Boomer sleep with Helo merely to maintain her pretense, because she was attracted to him, or to intentionally hurt Athena?
* What is the source of the "Slick" image Starbuck has been seeing? Is he a variation of Kara's Inner Leoben from "[[Maelstrom]]"?
* How did Starbuck and Hera arrive at a piano version of the same [[The Music|melody]] originally played by Anders on a guitar on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]?
* Could Starbuck's father have been Daniel, the "artistic" [[Number Seven]] model?
* Could Starbuck be a reincarnation of the woman that Anders played the song for on Earth?
* Will Eight's idea of plugging Anders into the [[datastream]] lead anywhere?
* Will Tyrol's involvement in Boomer's escape be figured out? Will he confess?
* If Tyrol's treachery does come to light, how will others react?
* Do all the ships in the Fleet - regardless of their relative crew and passenger size - get to send representatives to the new Quorum? (This is similar to the situation the Founding Fathers faced when trying to decide if state representation in Congress should be based on individual state population or restricted to the same number of representatives per state).

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[S. Cottle]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Roark Critchlow]] as Piano Player

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

Talk:Revelations/Archive2

2008-06-17T02:27:08Z

Alpha5099:

A "Lt. Gonzo Pike" is also listed on the [[:Image:GoBetween260607.jpg|casting sheet]] for "[[The Ties That Bind]]" for what it's worth. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:01, 18 November 2007 (CST)

The convention report attributes the forest scenes to episode '''11'''. Since other reports state that they have shut down after episode 13, this like means that they are the same by episode numbers. "Revelations" is episode 10 however! --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:57, 20 November 2007 (CST)
: Here's the thing though... is Katee counting "Razor" as one episode? If so, then that makes "Revelations" episode 11, by her count. Also, about 4.13... it seems that there are only 10 episodes "in the can", as far as I can determine. Also, production numbers can be taken out of order; it's happened before to series such as ''Babylon 5'' and even the original BSG. So, 4.13... Is ''that'' episode 11, or is that part of episode 10, which may be extended? Plus we have two missing episodes that are unaccounted for, 4.07 and 4.09.
: To be honest, it's a bit confusing. LOL -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 09:55, 21 November 2007 (CST)
::Right. Counting "Razor" as one episode makes this correct again. That's probably the case. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:36, 21 November 2007 (CST)

== 4.0 finale? ==

Is this the finale to the first half of the season? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

:I'd venture a "yes". Not only is the episode #10 out of 20 (excluding "Razor"), but the SciFi Channel doesn't list it either on the site in general or on their schedule. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 12:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

:It's the mid-season cliffhanger... Should add that to the notes. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== Advance screening ==

Since the episode apparently has an [http://syfyportal.com/news425104.html advance screening] tomorrow, maybe we should lock the article. I vaguely I recall that a similar screening resulted in the episode summary or analysis to be written. That's not so bad, but we have no way to verify the stuff. Plus, I don't think we should spoil it for everyone just because a handful of people have seen the episode already. It's probably not that likely that there will be massive edits, but taking precautions doesn't hurt. Someone might also read spoilers somewhere else and try to add them here. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
: I believe you are referring to "Razor". And, well, despite the advanced screening any content from it is still considered a [[BW:SP|spoiler]], since it hasn't made a nation-wide airing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah yes, Razor. That was just an internet leak though and we could easily obtain a copy as well. That's not the case with a theater screening. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, if you recall, it was also screened in certain markets about a week before the air date. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== Location on earth ==

To me the location on earth looked a bit like the ruins of Ellis Island with New York City in the backround. Am I way off? --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 10:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

It's Brooklyn. [http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/913/bsgbrooklynbridgeyx0.jpg Check it out].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 11:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You are right. I didn't think that was a bridge, just a girder. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 12:02, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

== 5th Cylon ==

<blockquote>“Is Number Three honest in her claim that there are only four of the Final Five in the Fleet? If so, where is the fifth and last Cylon? If she's lying, is it because she still harbors distrust for her compatriots and the humans?”</blockquote>

Perhaps the 5th is already on the Basestar? [[User:Nerull|Nerull]] 13:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Were there any other major characters except Baltar and Roslin? Roslin is pretty much ruled out by the joke Five made. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 13:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
: Karl Agathon was still on the baseship, but he's human, as far as we know. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

:Yes, this is weird. Are there any major characters anywhere else? I mean, there are three Cylon models + Boomer in the Cylon fleet but they're not exactly good candidates. Did we leave someone behind somewhere? Surely, the final Cylon isn't dead. It has to be a major character. I guess it has to be one of Helo/Roslin/Baltar. I think that Roslin would be the most likely of those. The 3's question could have been meant in earnest. [[User:Haukurth|Haukurth]] 15:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm stretching this, but the five are supposed to find the way to earth. Chief, Sam and Tigh find the Viper (this could also make Starbuck a Cylon) and Roslin gives the final go for jump. There is a problem with Tory, she does nothing. --[[User:Laisak|Laisak]] 14:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

: Tory can't do anything because the call summons her to ''Galactica'', where Starbuck's Viper is. Obviously, she's disconnected from the rest of the Four, so she has the adverse reaction. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 16:06, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

What about Hera? D'anna was only "interested" in the four, and that way opened the door for another less important (for now) cylon......

My thoughts were, D'anna says four are in the fleet. She also freaks out and apologizes to what is presumably the fifth cylon in her vision in a way that suggests it's personal. What if the fifth cylon is someone in the fleet who was killed either by her or the cylons as a group that she then recognized? Any people who were previously killed off by D'anna or the cylons in general that could fill that slot? I wanted to say Ellen Tigh, but Baltar did the test on her and if she'd come up positive he wouldn't be wondering who the fifth is like everyone else. --[[User:Ssiixx|Ssiixx]] 23:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Though this would be an anti climax I assume that the fifth final five is none of the caracters we already now. I think he is located on earth, maybe waiting in some bunker or whatever. He could also be on his own ship, not too far away from the cylons and humans, watching.
Since there is a lot more to explain about the time that passed from the end of the cylon war to their reappearing, I assume that the last cylon is also the link between the twelve human cylon models and the rest of the cylon race. Even if he IS the rest. [[User:Lincore|Lincore]] 02:03, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Earth - Speculation ==

Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death, according to the hybrid. She is also the only character we know has been to Earth. What if she triggered a series of events that led to the destruction of the 13th tribe? She probably isn't the 5th, but she's something else. I think she's playing the character of Krishna for those of you who've read Bhagavad Gita, but at the same time her connections to the arrow of Apollo make me think she might be Arjuna. In either case, her counterpart would be the 5th.

What is hard to explain is her viper. How does it explode visibly and then come back in mint condition in the nebula? Vipers don't have FTL either, so everything seems weird.

* International Space Station and satellites probably wouldn't be affected by nuclear war
* They can't all be dead - there's got to be somebody alive from the 13th tribe.
* New York, sure, but who would waste a nuke on New Jersey? (*grin*)

--[[User:Smari|Smari]] 14:45, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

ISS and other spacecraft in low-earth orbit will see their orbits decay within a decade (or even less) due to atmospheric drag without periodic reboosts (the demise of Skylab in 1979 is a perfect example of this). Even satellites in pretty high Earth orbit will fall back to Earth within a few hundred years - assuming that a significantly long time has elapsed since whatever happened on Earth, the only stuff left in orbit will be stuff out at the Clarke (geosynchronous) orbit.

--[[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 15:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but not much time has passed in the fleet, yet the plants growing on the ruins suggest the event was a long time ago. However, there was a time discrepancy associated with Kara's previous visit.

--[[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 16:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The article states that "[...] the series is set in the future and not the past [...]." This is not necessarily true. That - what was his name again - hybrid in razor said, that this happens "again, again, again...", so I came to the conclusion, that this might as well be our past. Maybe next time, it goes the other way round and people are escaping from earth after it was nuked by cylons or - whatever is next in line - and the human race is looking for an ancient world called... caprica for instance. This would make the Galactica Noah's Ark. Just my two cents... [[User:Lincore|Lincore]] 01:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Locating Earth based on just a bearing ==

There's a comment made in the main article stating that making a precision jump based solely on a bearing seems unlikely. It doesn't seem to me like this would necessarily be the case. Based on the bearing, Galactica should be able to scan in that direction, looking for solar systems. From there, they could scan for inhabitable planets. Assuming they truly are in our solar system, that narrows it down to one planet. We know that Colonial FTLs are capable of some extremely precise jumps, so jumping into orbit doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

The part that seems unlikely to me is that the fleet has been haphazardly stumbling around all this time jumping from point to point, several hundred jumps from the 12 Colonies. Now the Fleet is within jump range of Earth, without even knowing exactly where they were going.

--[[User:Scionic|Scionic]] 16:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think the Fleet jumped from their position to Earth in one jump. Getting to Earth probably took many jumps, which is what Lee meant when he said his course would have to be corrected as they went. The writers just skipped all these intermediate jumps and cut straight ahead to the final one. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 22:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::Even given that, it would be more believable to jump somewhere into the solar system rather than directly into orbit on the final jump. That's really just dramatic license. However, as said above, it makes sense that they would use astronomical readings to determine the location of star systems in the direction. But, it wouldn't be the usual generic, faster-than-light sci-fi scans. BSG's stellar navigation is mostly more in line with real astronomy, i.e. using passive readings -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:05, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:::In watching the episode again, it looks like they very well might be inside the Sol System for their final jump, presumably to save time/fuel instead of slogging their away across the system at sublight. The last establishing shot of the fleet before the final jump shows a yellow star, fairly close. This is presumably our Sun. Plus, I have to say I disagree on the method of stellar navigation. For general in-system navigation and plotting, passive systems would make sense, but for FTL jumps (which have been indicated to be many light-years long), sci-fi faster-than-light scans would almost be necessary. Otherwise they'd be jumping into a region of space based on a scan that is many months or even years old. It would be like mounting an FTL drive on my car, and jumping into the middle of a busy freeway based on a picture I took a couple weeks ago - I could very well jump into the middle of another car, jump into a location that no longer exists, etc. --[[User:Scionic|Scionic]] 06:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Better sure, but such magical technology simply doesn't exist. And all serious works of sci-fi deal a bit with the lightspeed information lag. True, BSG makes jumps next to planetary bodies and especially ships way too easy sometimes, but now and then, it's also pointed out how dangerous such jumps are. And that whole thing is the reason behind the term [[Red Line]]. A limit behind which jumps can't be plotted (e.g. stellar movement extrapolated from known data) accurately enough to have a certain margin of error. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::The Universe is a very big and empty place... Using normal tools they indeed see outdated images, the way things were months maybe years before... But the movement of stars and planets can be easily observed and predicted accurately enough to jump in space and not inside a star or planet. Remember, they don't have to jump directly into orbit around Earth, probably not even in the solar system, just close enough to get a closer look and get more accurate coordinates... -- [[User:Evilforce|Evilforce]] 11:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::I'm not just talking about the episode specifically, but the series in general. For planets that surely works. That's what I meant above. But they also jump extremely close to ships without problems. And their movement couldn't be predicted. That part is unrealistic. But never mind; it's pretty pointless to discuss this at such length. We kinda agree anyways :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::About jumping close to ships: I've got a little theory about that which I brought up in some long forgotten thread at Battlestar Forum: distance between ships is preserved through a jump. By this, I mean that the distance between e.g. ''Galactica'' and ''Colonial One'' after the jump will be equal to the one before it, because they made the exact same jump. For the same reason, you should be able to jump close to or even in the middle of the Fleet, provided you jumped away from that same spot. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Is it Earth at all? ==
Is the planet actually Earth? No recognisable land masses are visible from orbit, unlike in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]". The ruins look vaguely like Brooklyn and the Temple of Aurora, but it's inconclusive. The only thing conclusive is the star patterns match. Perhaps this is another pointer along the way. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 16:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:The scriptures say the dying leader wasn't supposed to survive to see their new home, although that's making two assumptions - that the dying leader is Roslin and the new home is the planet. --[[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 23:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::"Inductive reasoning is the death of philosophy". You can never prove anything definitively based on observed evidence, but I'd be willing to bet my house (if I owned one) on that being Earth. Aside from the many, many on-screen things, it would be a huge slap in the face to viewers if this was just [[Terra]] or something. Consider that the writers have set up this exquisite concept that in the near future civilisation is destroyed, only for it to be revealed that this is just some arbitrary planet. (Plus a few spoilers for episodes ahead do say this is Earth). Sometimes a spade is just a desolute, lifeless and radioactive spade. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 23:43, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== The possible finale? ==
Back before the season started and during the Writer's Strike, Sackhoff made a comment that the last episode they'd filmed might have acted as a series finale if the strike had gone on long enough that they couldn't return to work. Now, according to the Wiki, it's the next episode that she was referring to, but I was wondering how sure we were of that. There seems to have been a lot of confusion about which episodes production people are talking about. And I feel, after watching Revelations, that it seems like a likely candidate for the episode she was talking about. Thoughts? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:The Hub/Archive 1

2008-06-08T23:49:39Z

Alpha5099: /* psych! */

{{newsection link}}

==Picture==

Where is it from? Are there more? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:http://www.bsg.cz/4-09-hub-promofotky-3 -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:: Thanks! I wonder why there are none for Sine Qua Non so far. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::: Can anyone identify the gun Cavil is holding there? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 14:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:::: Looks like a Walther PPK actually...the shape of it is a dead giveaway. -- [[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 09:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
::::: Maybe we should change the picture; unless I missed it (which seems unlikely, as I pay extra attention when Cavil's on screen), that scene didn't make the final cut of the episode. Something from the episode would be nice: the Hub, D'Anna, maybe even Elosha. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::: Read my mind. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

==The The==
The SciFi website omits the preceeding "The" from the episode title. Just bringing it up because I'm of a lower class with no ability to move pages and the such. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 11:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:"The Hub" was confirmed by Bradley Thompson, so I guess it's the correct title. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::NBC Universal's Media Village says "Hub", too, and they were right with the one-L "Traveled", too. "Hub" would be a painfully dull title, though. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 16:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::How did these two sites report "'''The''' Road Less Traveled"? With our without the "the"? In this case, it's obviously a Biblical quote and the "The" is clearly supposed to be there. And yeah, no one in their right mind would call an episode "Hub". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 18:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::::''no one in their right mind would call an episode "Hub".'' – Eh... why not? –[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 03:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
The episode is titled "The Hub"... we knew this months ago, thanks to [[BW:OC|our own source]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

==Teaser==
I'm sure anyone who's seen this knows by now, but just in case... In the teaser from "[[Sine Qua Non]]", D'anna says something like "You didn't know you were one of the final five", then ''(spoiler; highlight)'' {{spoiltext|Laura Roslin is shown.}}
I avoid spoiler blogs & the like, so I don't know: Intentional, or too obvious? –[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 04:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:That could easily be some clever editing. As we saw in Sine Qua Non, the conversation between Tigh and Adama was much longer before Tigh hit Adama, but the preview made it look like Tigh hits him right after Adama asks him what he was thinking re: C-Six. There are no guarantees that those two share a scene in the episode, but we'll just have to wait and see. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]]•[[User talk:Kevin W.|So say we all]] 18:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah. Drawing anything from this is completely ridiculous. Promos are often very misleading. Sometimes deliberately, but often there just isn't the time to convey any real meaning. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::IMO she's probably talking to Anders. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 03:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think Anders is there. I think she's messing with Roslin. We know they share scenes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::Anders ain't anywhere, it seems... Odd. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== Callum Keith Rennie is in the episode ==

He appears right at the beginning, when everyone is still kind of hanging around the hybrid.
: You're right. He doesn't have any lines though. Also, I'm pretty sure that's the same footage from the episode where they first jump away. I guess they couldn't get him for the episode, but he got credit for standing around he'd done already. I don't have the earlier episode on me right now. Can anyone confirm that is the same scene (and not a reshoot), and then we can update the details about CKR's absence. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
:: The scenes are from "Guess What's Coming For Dinner?"... there's nothing new there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== Rebuilding the hub? ==

> Why do the Cylons have only one Resurrection Hub and the implied inability to build another?
> Are the Cylons capable of building a new Hub, and if so, how long it would it take them?

My personal theory is - they can have more than one, and they can rebuild it, but it takes considerable time and resources, too much to have another one ready before the end of the war.

On the other hand - maybe it is possible to modify / reconfigure Res Ships to not require the Hub to coordinate them?

[[User:Lilianne Blaze|Lilianne Blaze]] 04:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== Airlocked? ==

How come this page wasn't kept airlocked until the British release date, but Sine Qua Non was kept airlocked until the American and Canadian release date? I thought the entire point was to keep the page locked down until the episode had been fully released. Doesn't this portray double standards? [[User:Otterstat|Otterstat]] 10:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
: The episode was first released on Friday in America, not on Tuesday. (SciFi told SkyOne to not release the episode early... long story.) The point of locking down the pages is to prevent multiple people from bum-rushing the episode page after it had aired with edits, which degrades the performance of the wiki's server. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

:: Aye I know, and the British release date has been pushed back to Tuesday, so the roles are exactly reversed - what I'm saying is that last week the page was locked until the episode had aired in America, but this week it was unlocked straight after it was aired in America despite not having been aired in Britain yet. I thought another reason it was airlocked until the episode had aired in both areas was: "Locking articles give everyone a chance to watch the episode before a wiki visit could spoil that." I'm just a bit confused as to why it's been un-locked prior to the episode being aired in Britain, is all. [[User:Otterstat|Otterstat]] 14:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== psych! ==

Can we get Three's joke at Laura's expense in the Notable Dialogue section? I can't remember it word by word myself. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)`

: There we go. What an amazing moment. If there's any problems with how I formatted it, feel free to tweak it. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 23:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The Hub

2008-06-08T23:47:31Z

Alpha5099: /* Noteworthy Dialogue */

:''This article discusses the [[Re-imagined Series]] episode. For the eponymous resurrection facility, see: [[Resurrection Hub]].''
{{Episode Data
| image= 4x09 - The Hub - Promo 1 - cropped.jpg
| title= The Hub
| season= 4
| episode= 9
| forumthread= 1262
| guests=
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Paul Edwards]]
| production= 411
| rating=
| US airdate= 06 June 2008
| CAN airdate= 06 June 2008
| UK airdate=10 June 2008
| dvd=
| oldpopulation= 39674
| population= 39673
| prev= [[Sine Qua Non]]
| next= [[Revelations]]
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Pursuing the [[Resurrection Hub]] at the whim of the Hybrid, a team of Viper pilots and Cylon rebels become uneasy collaborators as they formulate a battle plan to unbox the [[Number Three|Three]]s and destroy Cylon resurrection forever. Meanwhile, Roslin and Baltar try desperately to communicate with the panicking [[Hybrid]] and Helo discovers a disturbing characteristic within one of the [[Number Eight|Eights]].''

== Summary ==

{{cleanup}}

=== Teaser ===
*The start of this episode overlaps with the end of [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]].
*During the jump, Roslin has a brief vision of herself and Elosha in an empty version of Galactica.
*The Hybrid soon makes a second jump, and Roslin's vision continues. She encounters a dying version of herself.

=== Act 1 ===
*An Eight determines that the Hybrid is panicking due to [[Natalie]]'s injury. Baltar attempts to calm her, initially appearing to be successful, but the Hybrid jumps again. Roslin's vision continues, and she sees Thrace, Cottle and the Adamas standing over her bed. Elosha speaks to the dying Roslin, chastising her for her lack of empathy.
*The Eight tells Helo that the Hybrid is following the Hub, and discusses strategy with him.
*The Eight massages Helo's back, Helo comments that Athena learned to do so after meeting him, and the Eight reveals that she accessed Athena's memories from the [[Rapture|last download]].
*Helo speaks with Roslin in Gonzo's Raptor. Roslin orders Helo to bring D'Anna to her.
*On the Resurrection Hub, a D'Anna is awakened by Cavil and Boomer, who discusses the Cylon civil war with her. D'Anna makes a disparaging remark about the Eights' fickleness.

=== Act 2 ===
*In the Basestar hangar, Helo and an Eight give a mission briefing to a number of Sixes, Eights and Colonial pilots. Several pilots express concerns about his safety and the reliability of the Cylon pilots. The Eight assures the human pilots that they are as reliable and skilful as Athena.
*Baltar and Roslin attampt to question the Hybrid with little sucess. They bicker and Baltar walks off, and then the Hybrid declares that a Three has been unboxed and jumps.
*In a vision, Elosha and Roslin walk through the hallways of Galactica. Roslin speculates that Elosha and the visions are a manifestation of her subconscious. Roslin and Elosha see William Adama reading [[Searider Falcon]] to the dying Roslin.
*After the jump, Baltar begins talking to a Centurion about hierarchy and religion, asserting that the Centurion is loved by God as well.
*Roslin and Helo discuss their secret plans regarding D'Anna, Helo expresses reservations, asserting that the Sixes and Eights are trustworthy. They are interrupted by an alarm indicating that they have reached the Hub.

=== Act 3 ===
*On the Resurrection Hub, Boomer comments with alarm on the arrival of the rebel Basestar. Cavil tries to convince D'Anna to talk to the rebels and defuse the conflict, but D'Anna replies curtly and threatens to shout out the names of the Final Five. Boomer reports that the rebel Basestar has launched 25 Heavy Raiders.
*Outside the Hub, the Heavy Raiders release the Vipers. The Raiders attack the Basestar, while the Vipers head towards the Hub.
*Cavil deduces that the rebels are attempting to destroy the Hub, and comments that doing so would be mass murder, and would make death permanent for Cylons. On hearing this D'Anna breaks Cavil's neck and Boomer flees.
*Missiles destroy a node at the top of the Hub, taking out its FTL capability, and Helo's Raptor heads towards the Hub.
*In the Hub, Helo and an Eight encounter the D'Anna and the dead Cavil. Helo tells D'Anna to run and grabs her arm.
*Gonzo panics due to the damage to his Raptor, suggesting that he jump out. Hardball advises against jumping back to Galactica due to its distance. Gonzo is shot as jumps out.
*In the Hub, Helo hesitates upon seeing a number of inert Eight bodies. The Eight tells him they should leave, and drags the objecting D'Anna.
*Baltar continues to evangelise to the Centurion, but as the rebel Basestar is hit by a missile the explosion destroys the Centurion and seriously injures Baltar.
*Two Marines carry Baltar to a bed while Roslin carries a First Aid kit.
*Roslin orders them out, bandaging Baltar and injecting him with [[morpha]]. In his drug-addled state Baltar talks to Roslin about religion, telling her that he once harbored terrible guilt. Pressed on what that guilt is for he tells Roslin that he unwittingly gave the Cylons the [[CNP|access codes]] prior to the [[fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. He compares the fall to the flood [[Pythia]] spoke of, which wiped out most of humanity and rejuvenated them. Shocked by Baltar's confession, Roslin tries to kill Baltar by removing his bandages. As he loses blood he begs her to stop.

=== Act 4 ===
*Helo announces that he has D'Anna and orders a nuclear strike on the Hub. The Vipers fire two nukes each into the Hub destroying it and at least one of the two enemy basestars.
*Baltar continues to beg for his life.
*There is another jump. In Roslin's vision, William Adama stands over a dying Laura Roslin, while Laura and Elosha watch them. Elosha convinces Laura to show Baltar mercy, saying that humanity cannot be saved on a "case-by-case basis".
*With a sudden change of heart Laura desperately checks to see if Baltar is still alive, then begins re-bandaging him.
*Aboard the basestar with the Three Helo argues with the Eight, saying that his orders are to take D'Anna to the president. The Eight is upset and D'Anna comments cynically that such double-crossing is a very human trait.
*Helo brings D'Anna to Roslin. Roslin orders Helo out, telling him not to let anyone else in.
*D'Anna immediately inspects the injured Baltar and speculates that he is likely to survive.
*When asked about the Final Five, D'Anna jokes that Laura Roslin is one of them, and refuses to provide any information until she feels she is safe, the information being the only thing she has. She says she will tell Laura who the Final Five are after she is taken back to the fleet.
*Sometime later Laura sits alone listening to the Hybrid. As the Hybrid jumps she has a final encounter with Elosha.
*William Adama sees the basestar. In the landing bay, he meets Laura Roslin. He says that he missed her, and she says that she loves him.

== Notes ==

=== Story ===

*The [[survivor count]] at the top of the show notes the already established death on Lieutenant [[Eammon Pike]], whose body is discovered in the [[Raptor]] that managed to jump to the Fleet. Other human fatalities are impossible to determine as a result of the battle.
*The events of this episode, starting from the [[Hybrid]]'s [[FTL|jump]] of the rebel [[basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in "[[Guess What's Coming To Dinner?]]", and [[William Adama]]'s mission to stay behind in a Raptor awaiting [[Laura Roslin]]'s return spans two days. Ergo, the events of "[[Sine Qua Non]]" occur over the course of two days.
* Unlike previous episodes, this episode is part of the same overall story occurring concurrently with the episode before it (Sine Qua Non). The episode shows the events from the baseship's perspective, whereas "Sine Qua Non" shows the uncertainty and reactions to said uncertainty from the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]'s perspective.
*Roslin and Adama have finally admitted their feelings for each other.

=== Cylons ===

*[[Number Two]]/[[Leoben Conoy]] is notably absent from the episode (appearing only in the recap at the beginning), and only Sixes and Eights are among the Cylons fighting in the battle. Since actor [[Callum Keith Rennie]] is credited for the episode, it is likely that scenes with him were shot but cut.
*There is only one [[Number Three]] in existence, and any possibility of [[Boxing|unboxing]] the others has been lost.
*With the destruction of the Resurrection Hub, the Cylons have permanently lost the ability to download into new bodies.
* As previously shown in "[[The Farm]]", [[Heavy Raider]]s are piloted by humanoid Cylons unlike the smaller autonomous [[Raider (RDM)|Raiders]].
* This episode contains the first mention of [[Natalie]]'s name in dialogue.

== Analysis ==

* Roslin enters a hallucinatory trance state as the basestar jumps about wildly. Roslin has not previously experienced this sensation during the Fleet's jumps, although Kara Thrace underwent something similar in "[[He That Believeth In Me]]". Moreover, [[Callandra Tyrol|Cally Henderson]] exhibited symptoms of vertigo during ''Galactica's'' first jump in the [[Miniseries, Night 2|Miniseries]].
* Over the course of the series, the [[Number Eight|Eights]] have been notorious for shifting their alliances. [[Number Three]]'s comment about the Eight model's tendency to be passionate allies until they see "something shiny" seems to be yet another example of the fickle nature of the Number Eight model. A somewhat more direct observation of this fact is shown in "[[Faith]]" when [[Sharon Agathon]] denounces a group of Eights after hearing their desire to rebel against [[Natalie]] and the other [[Number Six]] models.
* The battle in this episode bears a striking resemblance to "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I|Resurrection Ship, Parts I]] and [[Resurrection Ship, Part II|II]]". In both episodes, a shaky alliance between ''Galactica'' and another force takes on an ostensibly irreplaceable Cylon resurrection facility by first disabling its FTL capability and then engaging it directly with fighters. Furthermore, both sides plan to double-cross each other after the successful execution of the attack.
* Roslin's suspicions of Baltar, which she has had since "[[Epiphanies]]" (and had a vague inkling of in "[[Six of One]]") have finally been confirmed.

== Questions ==

*What role does the [[Resurrection Hub|Hub]] play in the proper functioning of other [[Resurrection Ship]]s? Why are these apparently vital functions centralized?
*Why do the Cylons have only one Resurrection Hub and the implied inability to build another? If the Cylons are capable of building a new Hub, how long it would it take them?
*Why is the Hub so poorly defended by Cavil's faction?
*Does [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] make it off of the Hub before it is destroyed?
*How will Cavil's condescending attitude toward Sharon Valerii ("Pet Eight") affect her?
*Where are the [[Number Two]]s during all these events?
*Have other Eights have accessed Athena's memories, and how will this affect her relationship with Karl Agathon?
*What will happen to the rebel Cylons and their baseship?
*How will the rebel Cylons respond to Roslin's deception regarding [[Number Three]]?
*Will the Cylons - especially with Natalie dead - return to their earlier plan of taking hostages in order to gain access to Three?
*Is Roslin's vision of [[Elosha]] related to other characters' [[Virtual beings|internal manifestations]], such as Baltar's [[virtual Six]], or simply a manifestation of her subconsciousness, as Roslin believes?
*What will happen to Baltar now that his guilt regarding the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack on the Colonies]] has been revealed?
*Is Baltar's evangelizing of the [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]] genuine or an attempt to obtain a useful ally?

== Official Statements ==




== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''[[Number Three]] has just been unboxed and resurrected and is in the tank. Sharon "Boomer" Valerii and Cavil are present. After being told that the Eights are on the opposite side of the Ones (Cavils) in the Cylon Civil War, Three inquires as to why Boomer is there:''
:'''Number Three''' [looks at Boomer directly]: Boomer's an Eight. Shouldn't she be on the other side? [Boomer looks sternly at Three]
:'''Number One''': Boomer is my "Pet Eight". She has seen the light of reason. An Eight can make a passionate ally.
:'''Number Three''' [contemptuously]: Oh, until she sees something shiny! [Boomer's expression is stern]

*''Laura Roslin and [[Karl Agathon]] are discussing the possibility that Three has been unboxed. Agathon disagrees with her plan to keep Three from the Cylons and doesn't think that the Cylons would betray them like that.''
:'''Karl Agathon''' [shaking his head]: No, no, I don't think so. Not the Sharons, the Eights.
:'''Laura Roslin''' [patiently but firmly]: Captain, you are not married to the entire production line. I cannot afford to be sentimental right now. I cannot afford you to be sentimental either. If you can't do this job, find me someone who can.

* ''Aboard [[Karl Agathon]]'s Raptor after the destruction of the Resurrection Hub:''
:'''Number Three:''' And with a whimper, every Cylon in the universe begins to die.
:'''Number Eight:''' Yes, that's right, and it's a good thing, D'Anna, because now there's no difference. We can all start trusting each other.

* ''In Roslin's vision, as Roslin and [[Elosha]] watch Adama stand over a dying Roslin:''
:'''Elosha:''' I'm not saying Baltar's done more good than harm in the universe; he hasn't. The thing is, the harder it is to recognize someone's right to draw a breath, the more crucial it is. If humanity is going to prove itself worthy of surviving, it can't do it on a case by case basis. A bad man feels his death just as keenly as a good man.
:'''Laura Roslin:''' What do you want from me here?
:'''William Adama:''' Laura.
:'''Elosha:''' Just love someone.
:'''Laura Roslin:''' Love.
:'''William Adama:''' You go. You go on. You go on and rest now. I'm not gonna' be selfish. You go. Rest.

* ''Roslin and Adama tenderly greeting each other on the basestar's hangar deck:''
:'''Adama''': Missed you.
:'''Roslin''': Me too.
:'''Roslin''' [Embracing Adama]: I love you.
:'''Adama''' [Breaking the embrace; looks into her eyes]: About time.

* ''[[Gaius Baltar]]'' reveals to Roslin his guilt over the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|original attacks on the Colonies]]:
:"[[Pythia]] talks about a flood that wiped out most of humanity. Nobody blames the flood. The flood is a force of nature. Through the flood, mankind is rejuvenated -- born again. I was not a flood, you see. I blamed myself... I blamed myself. But God had made the man who made that choice. God made us all perfect. And in that thought, all my guilt flies away -- flies away like a bird."

* ''Number Three answering Laura Roslin's question:''
: '''Three''': Suppose you've got some questions for me.
: '''Roslin''': Yes I do. I'd like to talk about the five Cylons in my fleet.
: '''Three''': So you know about the Final Five?
: '''Roslin''': I know they're supposed to know the way to Earth.
: '''Three''': But you don't know that you're one of them.
''Extremely dramatic music begins playing and Laura begins to contemplate the notion, until...''
: '''Three''': [Bursting out laughing] Your face. [Laura looks annoyed] Oh, it's ridiculous. No. Look, I'm not giving you any names. Not until I feel like I'm safe. 'Cause information is all I got, Sweetie.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]] / [[D'Anna Biers]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]] / [[Leoben Conoy]] (credited only)
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
*[[Lorena Gale]] as [[Elosha]]
*[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Number One]] / [[Cavil]]
*[[Jennifer Halley]] as Ensign [[Diana Seelix|Diana "Hardball" Seelix]]
*[[Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Hotdog|Brendan "Hotdog" Costanza]]
*[[Ryan McDonell]] as Lieutenant [[Eammon Pike|Eammon "Gonzo" Pike]]
*[[Lee Jefferies]] as Lieutenant [[Paolo McKay|Paolo "Redwing" McKay]]
*[[Leo Li Chiang]] as [[Tattooed pilot]] (uncredited)

== External Links ==
*Composer [[Bear McCreary]] on the episode's score: [http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=380]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Hub, The}}
[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]

Talk:The Hub/Archive 1

2008-06-08T02:28:02Z

Alpha5099:

Portal talk:Battlestar Galactica (RDM)/Characters

2007-10-15T06:16:03Z

Alpha5099:

== Showboat ==
If you're going to pull Showboat, at least replace her with a more "recurring" character (to fill out the square). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:21, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
*How about Socinus? [[User:Indrian|Indrian]] 14:32, 29 August 2006 (CDT)
**Anyway, I have added him. [[User:Indrian|Indrian]] 14:38, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

==Order?==
I'm having trouble seeing the order that the characters are being arranged in. It all seems fine in the first row, where you have the seven main credits characters and then the three most important secondary characters. From there, the order seems fairly scattershot. Several of the characters do not feel especially important, at least not anymore, and where they appear in the order seems fairly random. The closest thing I can see to an order is that in general, they seem to appear in the order of their first appearance, although there are several ones placed in the entirely wrong place for that to be correct. Then there's just some exceptions that puzzle me: are Socinus and Crashdown really that much more important that Aaron Kelly and SImon? Or Tory, or Cain, both fairly important characters that will only increase in importance with Razor and Season Four.

I think this is a nice enough template, but it needs a little work. Maybe more inclusive, and a more discernible ordering would be nice. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 01:16, 15 October 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Gina Inviere/Archive 1

2007-07-16T00:18:52Z

Alpha5099:

Source: http://www.syfyportal.com/article.php?id=1912

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 19:45, 12 Jul 2005 (EDT)

== Note ==
"However, if resurrection transmissions travel at light speed, the transmission would have reached the hypothetical second Resurrection Ship (or the Cylon Homeworld) at the same time as they would have detected the nuclear explosion."
:Since they travel at [[FTL|faster than light]] with the "jumps", what would the timing of the Cylon arrival have to do with transmission speed of the download? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:49, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Deleted Scenes ==
Though it is mentioned that she has a storyline in "Downloaded", shouldn't we post what actually happens in that deleted scene? I know in the end it didn't air (for sake of not confusing too much), but it is still considered canon and is an important part of both the Gina and Cylon Baby Story line (as well as D'anna possibly). I think we should add some greater detail about what happens during this scene (especially since we aren't getting more Gina.
-- [[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18 March 2006
: Sauron18, deleted scenes aren't necessarily canonical. Something may later come down the line that contradicts those scenes. However, I would add the pertinent information in a notes section. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:01, 18 March 2006 (CST)
---Well its true that they aren't ALWAYS, canonical, but the fact that recently we've seen deleted scenes shown in the "Previousley on BSG" makes the scene itself canonical. At least her discussion over putting his attention on the polls is important. I do hope the rest of her arch in "Downloaded" does turn out compatible. Its really the same for most scenes, but Gina is dead. She was a good character and any scene we can get is worth mentioning as canonical I would say. I don't know, I guess only time will tell. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18 March 2006
:I don't think they shouldn't be noted as anything other than a trivia item. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 18 March 2006 (CST)

== Suicide and Spectacles ==

I believe the reason for Gina's suicide to be because she knew the other Cylons would eventually detect the explosion and find New Caprica. If she still had a real desire for suicide, she could have very easily gotten herself shot or tossed out an airlock just by showing herself to a Colonial officer, without risking damnation. I think she stayed with the nuke to prevent anyone stumbling on it and disabling it, thereby ruining her one chance to signal her people.

Also, regarding Gina's glasses, she seems to use them only for reading, rather than as a disguise. Shelly Godfrey uses reading glasses, too; it's likely that a little nearsightedness is an intentional flaw in the Six model, like Five's thinning hair and Cavil's advanced age. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:22, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

:RDM explained the reason at the "NY Museum for Television & Radio" panel. She couldn't accept that the Colonials found a safe haven on New Caprica and especially couldn't imagine living down there, probably with Baltar. On Cloud 9 she might have thought that she could undermine the Colonials from within. On New Caprica that would've been gone. Though her means of suicide was very extreme, she probably wanted to hurt them one last time.
:Personally I think the Cylon's discovery of New Caprica works better as pure chance than with any kind of planning.

:Nice point about the glasses :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:29, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::My first thought, when Five explained how they detected the explosion, was that, even a year later, Gina was still screwing Baltar. I don't think she'd have risked burning in Hell for any other reason. Guess I was wrong on that one, though it'd make sense that she could justify her suicide as dying in the line of duty if she took a couple of thousand Colonials with her. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:53, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

== Not "Gina" Within the BSG Universe ==

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that she is only referred to as Gina outside of the BSG universe. Ron Moore calls her that, probably the cast and crew call her that, and we call her that, but no one else. Not Admiral Cain, not Baltar, not...any of her "hug the Cylons" people?...other than that not many people in the Fleet knew she existed. Because of this, '''whenever I see the name "Gina" on any other pages, I change it to "''Pegasus's'' prisoner" or something similar'''. The point is that if a random viewer comes to the Wiki and sees this weird name "Gina" they've never heard in any episode, it will make it quite confusing. I believe that at the top of ''her'' page, the naming convention should be described, and that the fan-name is fine to use on it, but not anywhere else. This would best follow the "in the BSG universe" POV policy, yes? Any thought? - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 11:54, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:Wasnt she Gina in the credits? And besides, isn't what Ron Moore says considered canon? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:04, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::I just checked Pegasus, both Res Ships, and LDYB II. She's not included in any of the credits. Moore's law is correct, she ''is'' Gina, and I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that because she has not been identified within any of the episodes or promotional material as "Gina"...just online and otherwise outside of the universe, using that name on wikipages contradicts the in-universe point of view. She definitely should have a handle for use on the wiki, but the problem is that unlike the names for various Sharons and Six's, the tag "Gina" has no (?) basis within the episodes. Just like Caprica-Six before Downloaded, no name was assigned to her on-screen, even by Baltar. If we were to use the same naming convention on her as other Cylons, we should refer to her as "''Pegasus''-Six" on the wiki instead of "Gina." - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 12:32, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::By [[Zeus, Lord of Kobol|Zeus]], he's got a point. Since the character is a dead-end anyway, adjusting this shouldn't be a real problem; we use descriptive names for internal reference elsewhere. I'll add a reference note that the name itself is internal based on RDM's comments, but, like most of the Sixes, no character has actually said their "human" alias on screen. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:44, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::::The name is well-known and has an official source. I see no problem with continuing to use it. Also, "Pegasus's prisoner" sounds kind of horrible - if you insist on circumlocution, at least Number Six (''Pegasus'' copy) fits our conventions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:19, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::I'd say we just leave it as Gina, it's her official name even if it isn't mentioned on screen, and it's not just a nickname. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:45, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm for keeping it as well. If we had learned the cover name she assumed as ''Pegasus'' crewmember it would probably have been Gina --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:17, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::I agree with keeping it, for the reasons above. I have never seen anyone asking "Gina? Who's that?" on a BBoard. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:11, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Spence, the page reads much more clearly now. Thanks. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 18:43, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

== GINO an allusion to "RINO" and "DINO"? ==

Personally, I'd always thought it was a reference to another GINO, the Godzilla In Name Only of the 1998 American Godzilla film. I've never even heard RINO or DINO used (at least not as acronyms). The note cites the podcast. Does Ron Moore actually say it stems from RINO or DINO, or does he just explain the origin of Gina's name. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 19:18, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Talk:James Lyman/Archive 1

2007-06-10T06:51:54Z

Alpha5099:

Here's a thought: if Jammer turns out to be a Cylon, maybe that flight deck accident in "Act of Contrition" that caused the death of 13 pilots was caused by him? Hadrian said it looked like just basic metal fatigue on the missile-drone's support rack; but what if the metal was ''weakened''? Could be an exciting retcon. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:55, 21 October 2005 (EDT)

:Now you're thinking the way the Cylons want you to think. ;) --[[User:MASON|MASON]] 23:41:33, 2005-10-21 (EDT)

==Jammer's Name==

Jammer was just given a name in the seventh episode of The Resistance: James Martin. I added it to his infobox and modified the note about his name. Probably some other things can be changed as well. --[[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 11:43, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
:I'm with you on the "James", but I had trouble with his last name. It sounded like Lineham, or Lieman, but definitely very "L"-ish. Once we have his name nailed down we can move the article to that name like everybody else. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:30, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

::I've moved the page, but it might have been premature. We'll leave it here until someone can get a clear bead. I did hear "Martin." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:52, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

:::Nevermind. Right you are. Thanks for moving the article to the proper location. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:54, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

:I understood "Have a seat Mr. Martin", too --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:02, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
::I listened to it again trying to hear "Martin" but I had a hard time hearing that. I listened to it again and it could be an L at the beginning but I may be thinking it is a W. The 1st vowel is definitely a long I as in TIE. The 2nd syllable I believe I hear -mon, -man, -men, -min or something starting with an M and end with an N. I think the name could be Liemon (or some spelling variant) or Wieman (or some spelling variant). --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:26, 26 September 2006 (AST)

:It sounded like Lanham or Lynam to me. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 3:35, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

:Okay, I think I have it figured out. It's Lynah. Lynah? you ask. Yes, Lynah. It's a sly reference to the skating rink at Cornell University, Lynah Rink. Ronald Moore attended Cornell although he didn't finish his degree. He was expelled during his senior year as he notes in his recent blog post on the Sci Fi site. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 2:38, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

::To be honest, I'm hearing "Martin". I just listened to it four or five times, and it ''definitely'' sounds like Martin. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:37, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

::Hmm, it still sounds like an "L" to me. Hopefully Ronald Moore will clear this up soon. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 11:59, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

:::Yeah, I hope so too. It's such a petty thing to be caught up on the spelling of the last name of a minor character but here we are. I listened to it again twice and I am emphatically sure it's not Martin. I hear for the 1st syllable either a Wy- or a Ly-. I don't hear an 'a' in the 1st syllable or an R, and I don't hear a T in the 2nd syllable. In light of all this, I think this article should be removed/deleted and replaced with the original "Jammer" until it is clarified by Bradley Thompson or other BSG officials. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:13, 28 September 2006 (AST)

::::I'm sure someone will leave this one for Bradley to answer. We've had good luck in asking about names for Cally and Crashdown, and Bradley joined us to correct our [[Margaret Edmondson]] name, which was shown in screen caps incorrectly. Given that most of us hear "Martin," I'd rather leave it as-is until other official information tells us otherwise. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:27, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

:::Actually, most of the people that have posted here have heard something other than "Martin". I don't know how this guide should be handled for now, but I don't think it's a good idea to have it listed under James Martin when that information hasn't been verified (and may be incorrect). Changing it back to "Jammer" seems like a good idea. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 13:20, 29 September 2006 (EDT)

== Signaller? ==

Is there an official source on Jammer's job being signaller? Obviously the yellow jumpsuit shows that he does something different from Chief and the other knuckledraggers. But are the yellow jumpsuit-wearing people ever identified, in show or by crew, as signallers, or is that just speculation based on real-world military practices? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 01:51, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

References to the Original Series

2007-06-08T17:23:59Z

Alpha5099: added a Simpsons reference

{{expansion}}

{{BSG references series}}
__NOEDITSECTION__

===[[w:Airplane II: The Sequel|Airplane II: The Sequel]]===
*The music at the beginning of the movie is the "Battlestar Galactica" theme music.
*The theme music is played again during the shuttle launch.
*The pilot of the shuttle is [[Kent McCord]], who played [[Boxey (TOS)|Boxey]] in "[[Galactica 1980]]."
*''Airplane II'' also starred Lloyd Bridges, who played [[Commander Cain]].
:[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083530/trivia IMDB Trivia page]

==="[[w:The A-Team|The A-Team]]"===
[[Image:ATeamCylon.jpg|right|thumb|Dirk's A-Team 'Faceman' meets a Cylon.]]
*[[Dirk Benedict]], who played [[Starbuck (TOS)|Starbuck]] in "Battlestar Galactica," plays Lt. [[w:Templeton "Faceman" Peck|Templeton "Faceman" Peck]] in "The A-Team;" Face and Starbuck are very similar (handsome young officers, womanizers, humorous/roguish elements, etc).
*During the episode "[[w:Steel (The A-Team)|Steel]]" of "The A-Team," the A-Team attends a television convention. While there, a man in a [[Cylon Centurion]] suit walks past Face, who turns with a look of surprise on his face.
*In the second-through-fourth seasons of "The A-Team," the clip of the Cylon walking past Faceman is played in the show's opening credits.
*"The A-Team" also starred Dwight Schultz (the voice of [[Lord Erebus]]) and Lance LeGault ([[Bootes]]/[[Maga]]).
:[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083530/trivia IMDB Trivia page]

===[[w:Beverly Hills Cop III|Beverly Hills Cop III]]===
*In the movie, Axel Foley is being chased through a series of rides, one of which is "Alien Invasion". The ride is similar to the Universal Studios' "Earthquake" ride, with the addition of Cylon Robots who shoot at the participants.
:[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109254/trivia IMDB Trivia page]

==="[[w:Buck Rogers in the 25th Century (TV series)|Buck Rogers in the 25th Century]]"===
*Also produced by [[Glen A. Larson]]
*Some props and footage (e.g. [[Viper (TOS)|Viper]] cockpits and the [[Lunar Avion]]) were taken directly from Battlestar Galactica.
*The second season plot line had a crew seeking the lost tribes of [[Earth (TOS)|Earth]] who had scattered
:[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078579/trivia IMDB Trivia page]

===[[w:Dünyayı Kurtaran Adam|Dünyayı Kurtaran Adam]] ("The Turkish ''Star Wars''")===
*The theme is played during the introduction.

===[[w:Escape Velocity Nova|Escape Velocity Nova]]===
*In this computer game, carrier ships can be equipped with squadrons of snub-nosed, delta-winged, laser-armed 'viper fighters.'

==="[[w:Family Guy|Family Guy]]"===
*At the end of the episode "[[w:Road to Europe|Road to Europe]]", Peter and Lois are on the KISS show. At the end of the show, the host announces, "And now stay tuned for Battlestar Galactica Forum." He dons a Cylon Centurion helmet (complete with the red-eye) and continues, in a Cylon voice, "Welcome to Battlestar Galactica Forum."
*During the episode "[[w:Brian Goes Back to College|Brian Goes Back to College]]" Peter, Quagmire, Joe and Cleveland all dress up as the A-Team. After Quagmire is introduced in the credits as "Faceman" Peck. he walks past a Cylon Centurion from the original show. A deliberate reference to A-Team reference listed above.

==="[[w:Futurama|Futurama]]"===
[[Image:Cylon Futurama.jpg|thumb|right|Cylon and Garfunkel (Futurama episode ''Bendin' In The Wind'')]]
*In the episode "[[w:Bendin' in the Wind|Bendin' in the Wind]]", the band "Cylon and Garfunkel" (consisting of Art Garfunkel and an original series Cylon Centurion) play at a charity concert for broken robots.

===[[w:Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport|Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport]]===
*From the opening of the midfield terminal in 1980, until its refurbishment in 1996, the computerized announcement voices were referred to by fans as Cylon and ''Logan's Run'' voices.

===[[w:Homeworld|Homeworld]]===
*The computer game ''Homeworld'' revolves around a race of people who were exiled from their homeworld by a cruel empire to a distant desert planet many thousands of years ago. After their planet of exile is obliterated by their ancient enemy the survivors take to the stars on a long and perilous journey across the galaxy in search of their ancient homeworld, Hiigara. A rumor persists that ''Homeworld''’s development began as a ''Battlestar'' computer game which developer [[w:Relic Entertainment|Relic Entertainment]] failed to acquire a license for.

==="[[w:Knight Rider|Knight Rider]]"===
*Also produced by [[Glen A. Larson]]
*The red scanner on the front of KITT is a reference to the red "eye" of the Cylons from ''Battlestar Galactica''.
*[[Edward Mulhare]], who played [[John]] in "[[Experiment in Terra]]", was given a leading role in "Knight Rider."
:[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083437/combined IMDB Trivia page]

===[[w:Mozilla|Mozilla]]===
[[Image:Mozilla Cylon.gif|right|The Mozilla "Cylon" progress bar]]
*All programs made by Mozilla feature an oscillating status bar which, in the code, is called a "cylon."

==="[[w:Murder, She Wrote|Murder, She Wrote]]"===
*During the episode "Incident in Lot #7" (Season 8, episode 13) a person dressed in a Cylon outfit walks past Jessica Fletcher.

==="[[w:Mystery Science Theater 3000|Mystery Science Theater 3000]]"===
*''Space Mutiny'' was shown on "MST3K," and the DVD of the episode made note of the movie's use of "Battlestar Galactica."

==="[[w:Robot Chicken|Robot Chicken]]"===
[[Image:Robot Chicken Cylons.jpg|thumb|right|The Cylon skit on "Robot Chicken"]]
*The original series Cylons were the focus of a short skit on the [[w:Adult Swim|[adult swim]]] series ''Robot Chicken'' episode of [[w:Junk in the Trunk|Junk in the Trunk]] in which the original Cylon actors had so many problems walking around in their suits that they were constantly falling down.

===[[w:The Simpsons|"The Simpsons"]]===
* In the episode "Mayored to the Mob," an ad for a sci-fi convention announces, "Tag-team robot wrestling! It's the mighty robots of Battlestar Galactica, versus the gay robots of Star Wars!" The ad shows two Cylons beating up R2-DS and C3PO.

===[[w:Space Mutiny|Space Mutiny]]===
*The shots of the fleet in space are taken directly from "Battlestar Galactica."
*The ship's fighters are also called "Vipers."
*''Space Mutiny'''s plot is also somewhat similar to that of "Battlestar Galactica:" a refugee fleet trying to find a new home, "mystical" elements, strange names for things, etc.
:[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096149/trivia IMDB Trivia page]

===[[w:StarCraft|StarCraft]]===
*In this computer game, units often answer with quotes from movies. Some of the Protoss respond to orders with the phrase, "[[By your command]]".
*The game's humans have been exiled from Earth, and live in a confederacy of colonies; these colonies are, throughout the game, decimated by the Zerg and Protoss - the latter of which are feudal, cybernetically-enhanced aliens, like the Cylons.

==="[[w:Star Wars|Star Wars]]"===
*The swear word, [[frak]] (as well as "frakkin'"), makes an appearance in the 1996 ''Star Wars'' novel of [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_of_Lies Shield of Lies] and the comic issue of [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Legacy_2:_Broken%2C_Part_2 Star Wars Legacy 2: Broken, Part 2].

==="[[w:Tripping the Rift|Tripping the Rift]]"===
*The episodes "Mutilation Ball" and "Love Conquers All...Almost," feature a character named 'Commander Adam.'
*The episode "Totally Recalled" featured a character named Baltar, who owned an android-manufacturing corporation called Baltar Industries. Despite his name, however, CEO Baltar looked like [[Lucifer]].

==="[[w:Welcome to Eltingville|Welcome to Eltingville]]"===
*In the Trivia Off, two of the questions are: "How many brains does a Cylon commander have?" and "What was Galactica 1980's time-slot?"

==External links==
*[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076984/movieconnections IMDb's Movie Connections]
*[http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Frak_%28swear%29 Wookieepedia: Frak (swear)]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:TOS]]
[[Category:Lists]]
{{TOS}}

Erin Mathias

2007-06-04T21:34:54Z

Alpha5099:

{{Character Data
|photo=Mathias.jpg
|birthname=Erin Mathias
|seen=Exodus, Part I
|role=[[Colonial Marine Corps|Marine]]
|rank=Gunnery Sergeant
|actor=[[Eileen Pedde]]
}}
Gunnery Sergeant '''Erin Mathias''' is one of the few [[Marine]] NCOs seen in the series.

She is the Marine who leads [[Sharon Agathon]]'s Marine escort on [[New Caprica]] as part of Admiral [[William Adama]]'s rescue operation ([[Exodus, Part I]]).

She and her team repel a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] ambush on a prelimary meeting between Agathon and the New Caprica Resistance under [[Samuel Anders]]. Later she accompanies the resistance group back to [[New Caprica City]] to discuss the rescue plan with all leaders, among them [[Saul Tigh]], [[Laura Roslin]] and [[Tom Zarek]] ([[Exodus, Part I]]). When Adama's plans are executed, Mathias is in charge of the Marines who participate in the attack on the [[New Caprica Detention Center]] ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

Mathias is later part of the party that boards the infected Cylon [[basestar (RDM)|basestar]] discovered at the [[Lion's Head Nebula]]. She is assigned to execute the prisoners retrieved from this baseship in a failed plan to infect the entire Cylon race via the download process ([[A Measure of Salvation]]).

She leads the Marine force on the [[Algae planet]] and is ordered by Lee Adama to detain Samuel Anders when he wants to rescue his wife whose Raptor was shot down by the Cylons ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]).

==Notes==
*Her first name was supplied by [[Bradley Thompson]].
[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Recurring Guest Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Kern Vinson

2007-06-04T21:33:30Z

Alpha5099:

{{Character Data
|photo=Vinson.jpg
|birthname=Vinson Abinell
|siblings= At least 1; [[Ray Abinell]]
|seen=Sacrifice
|death=Killed by [[Billy Keikeya]] ([[Sacrifice]])
|actor=[[Mark Houghton]]
}}

'''Vinson Abinell''' is a civilian member of [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], brother to [[Ray Abinell]] and brother-in-law of [[Sesha Abinell]].

Abinell takes part in Sesha Abinell's hostage taking folly in ''[[Cloud 9|Cloud Nine's]]'' lounge, hoping to get [[Sharon Agathon|the pregnant copy of Sharon Valerii]] in exchange for hostages. His actions during the situation indicate that he is Sesha's right hand man.

On the onset of a second rescue attempt, Vinson is slain by [[Billy Keikeya]] as Vinson went to execute [[Anastasia Dualla]] on Abinell's order. He manages to mortally wound Keikeya prior to his death ([[Sacrifice]]).

==Notes==

*During the episode, Vinson is referred to as 'Kern' by [[Chu]]. This may be a nickname.

[[Category:A to Z|Abinell, Vinson]]
[[Category:Characters|Abinell, Vinson]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Abinell, Vinson]]
[[Category:One-Shot Characters (RDM)|Abinell, Vinson]]
[[Category:RDM|Abinell, Vinson]]

Ditko

2007-06-04T21:33:10Z

Alpha5099:

{{Character Data
| title=Ditko
| photo=The Eye of Jupiter - Ditko.jpg
| age=
| colony=
| birthname=
| callsign=
| nickname=
| seen=The Eye of Jupiter
| pseen=
| death=
| parents=
| siblings=
| children=
| marital status=
| role=[[Colonial Marine Corps|Marine]]
| rank=
| actor=
| cylon=
| mcylon=
| birthname=Ditko
}}
'''Ditko''' is part of the marine ground team to guard operations on the [[algae planet]] and defends the human position there against a Cylon attack ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]).

[[Category:A to Z|Ditko]]
[[Category:Characters|Ditko]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Ditko]]
[[Category:One-Shot Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM|Ditko]]

Madsen

2007-06-04T21:32:26Z

Alpha5099:

{{Character Data
| title=Madsen
| photo=
| age=
| colony=
| birthname=
| callsign=
| nickname=
| seen=Scattered
| pseen=
| death=
| parents=
| siblings=
| children=
| marital status=
| role=[[Colonial Marine Corps|Marine]]
| rank=Corporal
| actor=
| cylon=
| mcylon=
| birthname=Madsen
}}
Corporal '''Madsen''' is a Colonial [[Marine]] assigned to the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].

He is in charge of transporting [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Valerii]] to and from the Caprica Rescue briefing ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Recurring Guest Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Joe

2007-06-04T21:31:43Z

Alpha5099:

{{Character Data
|photo=Barkeep Joe Headshot.jpg
|birthname=Joe
|seen=Taking a Break From All Your Worries
|role= Barkeep‎
|actor=[[Tom Bower]]
}}

'''Joe''' is the barkeep of [[Joe's bar]], a drinking establishment on ''[[Galactica|Galactica]]''.

[[Lee Adama]] seems to be a good friend of Joe. The two might know each other from elsewhere in the Fleet, or Adama spent some time at the bar before introducing Tyrol to it ([[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]).

{{stub}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:One-Shot Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Razor/Archive2

2007-06-04T21:27:22Z

Alpha5099: /* "Razor" */

We'll need to retitle this article when we get a proper title that's not ambigous as "Battlestar Galactica (DVD movie)". The article will also need to become an episode summary as well. Maybe it may be better to rename this as "Battlestar Galactica (2007 DVD movie)" to avoid confusion with the [[Miniseries]] and other DVD releases. -- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:02, 17 April 2007 (CDT) ([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contribs]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|WonderNumbers]])

:I brought it in line with the standard episode guide format for now. Adding the year number is a good idea for now, but later we'll probably have a real name --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:06, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
::I agree. Battlestar Galactica (2007 DVD movie) would be good if we don't get an official title. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:09, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Right. I'll rename it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:56, 17 April 2007 (CDT)([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contribs]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|WonderNumbers]])

== Numbering and prev/next ==
How are we gonna number this one? [[4.00]] currently redirects here, but if that's the number we're going with, it should be [[400]] (in line with [[101]] through [[320]]). Or are we gonna pull another webisode and not number it at all? Also, the webisodes are missing from the episode guides' Prev/Next sequence. Is this one gonna be included? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:09, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
:400 is possible. But do we need to determine that right now? We could as well wait until some information about it is known. Agree though, that the webisodes should be in the sequence. I'll see to that... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:11, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
::We can wait, just wanted to point out we'll want a number at some point. Thanks for the sequence thingy, I could've fixed it myself but wondered whether they were left out intentionally (because there's no critical story in them, apart from Nora's death which is recapped in [[Occupation]]).--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:33, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

== "Razor" ==

<s>I recently noticed [[Razor]] being created as a redirect to this page. Is "Razor" this movie's working title? Do we have a source for that?</s> [http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=battlestar#sr Never mind]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 08:45, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

If the official name is Razor, though, this page should be renamed to "Razor". Could someone on Sci Fi Forums (or somewhere else) ask for confirmation on the Razor and HTBIM titles? I've asked on [[BW:OC]], but that page isn't viewed very much. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 11:09, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

:Well, the [http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=41709&type=0 press release confirming the last season] drops the "Razor" title. Can we construe this as confirmation, or at least enough to justify a move? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 14:10, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

::Given that there remains no official title, the working title redirect is just fine for the wiki's needs, and keeps it more searchable that our title here. It is not likely we'll get an official title (like the episodes) until they are officially announced. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:45, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

:::Does Sci-FI Wire not count as an official source? I would think a press release from the network would be official enough to warrant the article's name change. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 16:27, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

== Sequence numbers ==

[http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=battlestar&p=1#sr This source] cites 401 and 402 as the sequence numbers for "Razor", and 403 for "[[He That Believath In Me]]". Are we gonna follow this scheme? Ask Brad? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:11, 21 May 2007 (CDT)
:We could just hold off on episode numbers until something definite is known. For know we can just use episode names, and add the numbers later. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:22, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

Viper 2220

2007-06-03T06:29:59Z

Alpha5099:

: ''For the [[Viper Mark VII]] of the same name, see: [[Viper 2220 (Mark VII)]].''

'''Viper 2220NC''' is a [[Viper Mark II]] flown by Captain [[Lee Adama]] during search and rescue operations for Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] after Thrace disappears following an engagement with eight [[Cylon Raider]]s. 2220NC is temporarily grounded for repairs during the search after it's right roll thruster fails to fire on landing ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

At the time of the investigation into the suicide bombing by a [[Aaron Doral|Cylon]], Captain Adama is 2220's assigned pilot ([[Litmus]]).

Adama pilots 2220 during the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid|attack on a Cylon mining outpost]] ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

[[Image:2220 HoG.JPG|thumb|Viper 2220 during attack ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:Vipers|2220]]
[[Category:Vipers (RDM)|2220]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Viper 2220 (Mark VII)

2007-06-03T06:29:40Z

Alpha5099:

: ''For the [[Viper Mark II]] of the same name, see: [[Viper 2220]].''

[[Image:Viper 2220 (Mark VII).jpg|thumb|Viper Mark VII flown by [[Lee Adama]] in the [[Ionian nebula]] ([[Crossroads, Part II]]).]]

'''Viper 2220NC''' is a [[Viper Mark VII]] flown by Captain [[Lee Adama]] after the [[the Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]'s jump to the [[Ionian nebula]]. It is identified as "Viper 3" by ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'s'' executive officer, Captain [[Karl Agathon]] ([[Crossroads, Part II]]).

Viper 2200 is a [[Viper Mark VII#Maelstrom Variant|modified Mark VII design]] first seen in "[[Maelstrom]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:Vipers|2220]]
[[Category:Vipers (RDM)|2220]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Presidential security service

2007-05-15T15:30:32Z

Alpha5099: /* Notes */

[[Image:PSS KLGPII.JPG|thumb|Presidential security service preparing to defend the [[Laura Roslin|President]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])]]
The '''presidential security service'''<ref>{{bsgwiki term}}</ref> is tasked with protecting the President of the [[Twelve Colonies of Kobol]].

Hand picked by Captain [[Lee Adama]] from civilians in the Fleet, the security service is responsible and answerable only to the President, with no allegiance to the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial military authority]]. They consist of former police, security personnel, or people with some kind of firearms training.

The PSS on ''[[Colonial One]]'' is a distinct entity from the military personnel aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. Lee Adama himself had intentionally designed their organization in this way as he thought they should have a separate command structure from the military organizations, so the lines of authority establishing who was under whose control would not be confused <ref name="podcast">{{cite rdm podcast| episode = Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II | act = 3 | id = security | timestamp = 00:06:05 | totalrunning = 00:08:54 }}</ref>.

[[Image:Presidentialsecurity 113 1080i.jpg|thumb|[[Lee Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh]] in a [[Wikipedia:Mexican standoff|Mexican standoff]] with Roslin's security staff aboard ''Colonial One'']]
When Commander [[William Adama]] sent [[Marines]] led by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] and Lee Adama to ''Colonial One'' to arrest President Roslin, they engage in a tense standoff with the security service. Eventually, Apollo pulls a gun on Tigh, then Roslin orders Adama and the security service to drop their weapons, preferring that she would leave peacefully. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])

==Notes==
* [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]] discusses the presidential security service in his podcast for "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]."
* One of the security service agents is seen with Laura Roslin during [[Battle of New Caprica|The Battle of New Caprica]] ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Government]]
[[Category:Colonial Government (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Presidential security service/Archive 1

2007-05-15T15:30:15Z

Alpha5099:

== Nice one, Talos==
Good pic. "Wanted" pictures beware when Talos is on the prowl. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:29, 7 July 2006 (CDT)
:Thanks, I'm going through the wanted pics list now. Next stop, Bastille Day. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:31, 7 July 2006 (CDT)
::I took the liberty of uploading a 720p HD cap --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:48, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

== Exodus appearance ==
I've been meaning to add this since Exodus, Part II aired. As can be seen in [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=207&pos=286 this image], the bald, glasses wearing PSS agent is still guarding Roslin even after she left office. Probably like the Secret Service, which continues to guard ex-presidents. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 16:39, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
:Not sure if that's the same guy as in the pics from KLG. He could just belong to Roslin's evacuation group. Note that Zarek tasks Jammer to protect Roslin. That would be redundant if she had an official bodyguard. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:13, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
::That could be the case as well... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:46, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
::: Personally, I have no doubts it's the same guy. The resemblance is uncanny. Now, I suppose I am speculating that he is "escorting" her. He might just have been around. I'll change my phrasing, but I'm positive it's the same guy. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 10:30, 15 May 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Presidential security service/Archive 1

2007-05-14T21:39:29Z

Alpha5099:

Talk:Presidential security service/Archive 1

2007-05-14T21:39:14Z

Alpha5099:

Presidential security service

2007-05-14T21:33:44Z

Alpha5099:

[[Image:PSS KLGPII.JPG|thumb|Presidential security service preparing to defend the [[Laura Roslin|President]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])]]
The '''presidential security service'''<ref>{{bsgwiki term}}</ref> is tasked with protecting the President of the [[Twelve Colonies of Kobol]].

Hand picked by Captain [[Lee Adama]] from civilians in the Fleet, the security service is responsible and answerable only to the President, with no allegiance to the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial military authority]]. They consist of former police, security personnel, or people with some kind of firearms training.

The PSS on ''[[Colonial One]]'' is a distinct entity from the military personnel aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. Lee Adama himself had intentionally designed their organization in this way as he thought they should have a separate command structure from the military organizations, so the lines of authority establishing who was under whose control would not be confused <ref name="podcast">{{cite rdm podcast| episode = Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II | act = 3 | id = security | timestamp = 00:06:05 | totalrunning = 00:08:54 }}</ref>.

[[Image:Presidentialsecurity 113 1080i.jpg|thumb|[[Lee Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh]] in a [[Wikipedia:Mexican standoff|Mexican standoff]] with Roslin's security staff aboard ''Colonial One'']]
When Commander [[William Adama]] sent [[Marines]] led by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] and Lee Adama to ''Colonial One'' to arrest President Roslin, they engage in a tense standoff with the security service. Eventually, Apollo pulls a gun on Tigh, then Roslin orders Adama and the security service to drop their weapons, preferring that she would leave peacefully. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])

==Notes==
* [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]] discusses the presidential security service in his podcast for "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]."
* One of the security service agents is seen escorting Laura Roslin during [[Battle of New Caprica|The Battle of New Caprica]] ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Government]]
[[Category:Colonial Government (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar Wiki:News/Colonial Fleet News Service

2007-05-12T00:26:27Z

Alpha5099:

{{#ifeq: {{{1|}}}|ref
| <div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>
|




*[[Edward James Olmos]] has stated in [http://ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=4445 an interview] that [[Season 4]] will be the last.
*The latest issue of ''Entertainment Weekly'' puts ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]'' #2 on [http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036782_20037403_20037541_24,00.html The Sci Fi Top 25].
*The 1978 [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Battlestar Galactica]] currently appears on the [http://www.ionline.tv/shows.php?PGMID=BATTLESTARGALACTICA ION Television Network], Sundays at 6 PM ET/5 PM CT, and 7 PM ET/6 PM CT.
*The [[Sci Fi Channel]] is hosting a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/videomaker/ ''Battlestar Galactica'' fan video contest]. The winning entry (selected by [[David Eick]]) will be played during a [[Re-imagined Series]] season 4 episode. Entry deadline: June 1.
*The Season 2 episode "[[Downloaded]]" has been [http://dpsinfo.com/awardweb/hugos/2007.html nominated] for a 2007 Hugo Award.
*"[[Crossroads, Part II]]" is available at the iTunes Music Store. [http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D219291495%2526id%253D200852806%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30 Click here to purchase and download.]
* UGO.com has added a feature focusing on [[Humanoid Cylon speculation|speculation of that serious question in the series—"Who's a Cylon?"]]. Not only that, but they have referenced and linked to the Battlestar Wiki throughout this series of articles. Check out [http://blog.battlestarwiki.org/?p=120 our blog entry on this], then [http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmtv/features/whosacylon/?cur=main&page=Who's%20a%20Cylon check it out].
* The [[Sci Fi Channel]] has confirmed that the fourth season of [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|''Battlestar Galactica'']] will be increased from its initial request of 13 episodes to 22 episodes, with a special two-hour extended episode to air during the fourth quarter of 2007. The extended episode will be released later on DVD.<ref>{{cite_news|first=|last=|url=http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=2&id=40676&type=0|title=SCI FI Boosts Battlestar Order|publisher=|page=|date=2007-03-22|accessdate=2007-03-22|language=English}}</ref> In an [http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2007/03/24/battlestar/index_np.html interview] by ''Salon'' magazine, [[Ronald D. Moore]] revealed that the special 2-hour episode will be a story set on the battlestar ''Pegasus''. Even though the episode will be a backstory, it will have implications for [[Season 4]].

}}
{{#ifeq: {{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|Battlestar Wiki:News
| ---- <div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>
| 
}}
<noinclude>
[[Category:Pages using ParserFunctions|Colonial Fleet News Service]]
</noinclude>

Talk:List of character appearances (TRS)/Archive 1

2007-05-09T05:11:07Z

Alpha5099: /* Major/Minor distinction */

== Going to stop with these two ==
Because people need to be made aware of how to do these. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:36, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:I like the format :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:30, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::Oh yeah. Tough list to do. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:04, 15 February 2007 (CST)

It looks messy having a little side table with Adama and Tigh in it. If youre going to do it properly in tables then include everyone. Also i think you should remove the circles so the gap is blank unless there is an X there. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:30, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:Also why is season 2 split up? It was onl in the US that there was a 2.5, every other country in the world aired the series in full both as broadcast and on dvd. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:34, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:1) To Long... 2) Circles Gone... 3) No more "Seen In Every Episode" table. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)

==Matrix Templates==
Nice work with the matrix templates, Shane, Catrope, et al. Can I ask what the distinction is between a "Major" and a "Minor" appearance? Credited in the opening vs. credited at the end? If so, since characters can alternate back and forth (Kat, for example) why not use a special icon or color code to indicate the size of the role, rather than use two rows? For example, we could use different colors for "Appears, but with body double", "Appears, but no lines", "Credited at end", "Credited at beginning" and "Special Guest". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:If we really need a distinction, we could use the one from the character template: [[Template:Characters]]
:Anyone who has a large regular role, but isn't in the main credits is major. Tyrol, Helo, Cally, Gaeta, etc. Though maybe we should group them into "main", "supporting" and "recurring" too. That makes a bit more sense --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:13, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::What I'm saying is that that isn't possible to do objectively. When did Racetrack and Kat go from "recurring" to "supporting"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::I'd say they are still supporting characters. I like Racetrack, but the number of scenes she carries is very low. Kat is more debatable as she had 1 1/2 episodes with a very large role. But you're right. It's hard to do in some cases --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::::Is it even an important distinction? I mean... when this thing gets going full steam splitting them into only two categories is still going to leave a VERY large list on one of the categories (whichever way you split it). Fortunately, it's pretty flexible such that we can easily subdivide it as needed. So... throw out all categories and sort by some criteria (first appearance then last name then first name, just names, etc.)? Add more categories? I think it'd help me visualize it better the more it gets filled out. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:21, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::::Nah, we might as well drop it and just have "main cast" and "supporting cast". For now we should just fill it up and worry about this later --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:23, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::::::I agree with Serenity. If we want to get serious about this, we should get around to getting more data in there. Once we've got that, we can spend the upcoming nine-month break debating who's major and who isn't. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:BTW, Shane deserves credit for most of this stuff, I just copied his season 1 template and tweaked it a little to fit with Seasons 2 and 3. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::And... [[User:Darth Tytis|Darth Tytis]] gets the idea credit :-0 [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:40, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::Don't forget he compiled the list of episodes Leoben appeared in in the first place. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:28, 16 February 2007 (CST)

== Similar article ==

I'll update this list a bit and use this as reference: [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)]]. When we're done here, that article will be redundant. Should we delete it then? Or maybe change it into an article for rare guest characters only like Hadrian, Ishay, Seelix and the like? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:47, 18 February 2007 (CST)
:Now.. this should be better than that one. This is much easier to read. Transfer all. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:03, 18 February 2007 (CST)

== Major/Minor distinction ==

Well, above we said that it's not really necessary, but I think it makes it easier to read. The problem is that the distinction isn't always that clear. I went large with the size of the role and its importance to the episode, so it's more or less recurring vs supporting. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:21, 18 February 2007 (CST)

: I think the distinctions are definitely useful, and generally well-made. I wonder at Cottle being "Major." I love the guy, and he's appeared in a lot of episodes, but his appearances are scarce enough that I'd consider him minor. And personally, I think Anders could probably be considered Major for Season Three. We probably want people fluctuating like that, going between Major and Minor between seasons, as it might confuse finding them in the tables. But considering his prominence in Season Three and his almost ensured importance for the rest of the series now that he's a Cylon, it seems reasonable to give him the nod as Major, even if it means his slot in Season Two will largely be blank. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 00:11, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

== Erm, Shane ==

Any particular reason why you removed Helo and Billy from Season 1? Btw, sorry I didn't continue this after doing seasons 1 and 2.0. If noone else does, I'll do it in the next few days. I just hope the [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)|reference]] I used is correct. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:36, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
:They were there the WHOLE season. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:49, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, but that's no reason to not note that somehow. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:55, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Maybe a <code>|all=Y</code> var that just makes it fill up. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:02, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
::::Yeah, that would be helpful, but it's also not hard to copy-paste it from somewhere else once such a case exists. I don't think there are many - aside from the main characters - who've been in all episodes --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:09, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

== Should there be a Main Character category? ==

Nothing in the title specifies only supporting cast, so it seems strange that the seven main characters aren't included. I realize that they appear in almost every episode, but there are occasional episodes without some of them, and I see no reason not to note those.

One issue this would raise, of course, is the distinction between Cylons. Do Boomer and Athena get separate lines? I think so. And if so, probably Gina should be added to Minor Characters. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 14:06, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:We could and should include them. Reality is most people are too lazy to update this page. I might take a shot at it when I have time. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:39, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:Yes, we are lazy, but it might also clutter up the page. Yeah, there are some episodes where someone is missing, but they are in 90+ % of the episodes. Basically I'm against adding them, but I wouldn't mind if there were a consensus for adding them either. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:48, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::It's only 7 rows. We have tens of rows in there already. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:54, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:::Five times 7 rows! That adds up. I see the point in not excluding them, but are in most episodes after all. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:56, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::::But the same argument could be made for many of the "Major" characters. Helo, Chief, and Tigh have missed almost no episodes. The number they've missed is comparable to the number missed by "Main" characters. You could just as easily take them out. An episode without Apollo is just as noteworthy as an episode without Tigh. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 00:05, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

Talk:List of character appearances (TRS)/Archive 1

2007-05-09T05:06:14Z

Alpha5099: /* Should there be a Main Character category? */

== Going to stop with these two ==
Because people need to be made aware of how to do these. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:36, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:I like the format :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:30, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::Oh yeah. Tough list to do. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:04, 15 February 2007 (CST)

It looks messy having a little side table with Adama and Tigh in it. If youre going to do it properly in tables then include everyone. Also i think you should remove the circles so the gap is blank unless there is an X there. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:30, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:Also why is season 2 split up? It was onl in the US that there was a 2.5, every other country in the world aired the series in full both as broadcast and on dvd. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:34, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:1) To Long... 2) Circles Gone... 3) No more "Seen In Every Episode" table. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)

==Matrix Templates==
Nice work with the matrix templates, Shane, Catrope, et al. Can I ask what the distinction is between a "Major" and a "Minor" appearance? Credited in the opening vs. credited at the end? If so, since characters can alternate back and forth (Kat, for example) why not use a special icon or color code to indicate the size of the role, rather than use two rows? For example, we could use different colors for "Appears, but with body double", "Appears, but no lines", "Credited at end", "Credited at beginning" and "Special Guest". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:If we really need a distinction, we could use the one from the character template: [[Template:Characters]]
:Anyone who has a large regular role, but isn't in the main credits is major. Tyrol, Helo, Cally, Gaeta, etc. Though maybe we should group them into "main", "supporting" and "recurring" too. That makes a bit more sense --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:13, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::What I'm saying is that that isn't possible to do objectively. When did Racetrack and Kat go from "recurring" to "supporting"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::I'd say they are still supporting characters. I like Racetrack, but the number of scenes she carries is very low. Kat is more debatable as she had 1 1/2 episodes with a very large role. But you're right. It's hard to do in some cases --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::::Is it even an important distinction? I mean... when this thing gets going full steam splitting them into only two categories is still going to leave a VERY large list on one of the categories (whichever way you split it). Fortunately, it's pretty flexible such that we can easily subdivide it as needed. So... throw out all categories and sort by some criteria (first appearance then last name then first name, just names, etc.)? Add more categories? I think it'd help me visualize it better the more it gets filled out. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:21, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::::Nah, we might as well drop it and just have "main cast" and "supporting cast". For now we should just fill it up and worry about this later --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:23, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::::::I agree with Serenity. If we want to get serious about this, we should get around to getting more data in there. Once we've got that, we can spend the upcoming nine-month break debating who's major and who isn't. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:BTW, Shane deserves credit for most of this stuff, I just copied his season 1 template and tweaked it a little to fit with Seasons 2 and 3. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::And... [[User:Darth Tytis|Darth Tytis]] gets the idea credit :-0 [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:40, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::Don't forget he compiled the list of episodes Leoben appeared in in the first place. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:28, 16 February 2007 (CST)

== Similar article ==

I'll update this list a bit and use this as reference: [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)]]. When we're done here, that article will be redundant. Should we delete it then? Or maybe change it into an article for rare guest characters only like Hadrian, Ishay, Seelix and the like? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:47, 18 February 2007 (CST)
:Now.. this should be better than that one. This is much easier to read. Transfer all. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:03, 18 February 2007 (CST)

== Major/Minor distinction ==

Well, above we said that it's not really necessary, but I think it makes it easier to read. The problem is that the distinction isn't always that clear. I went large with the size of the role and its importance to the episode, so it's more or less recurring vs supporting. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:21, 18 February 2007 (CST)

== Erm, Shane ==

Any particular reason why you removed Helo and Billy from Season 1? Btw, sorry I didn't continue this after doing seasons 1 and 2.0. If noone else does, I'll do it in the next few days. I just hope the [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)|reference]] I used is correct. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:36, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
:They were there the WHOLE season. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:49, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, but that's no reason to not note that somehow. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:55, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Maybe a <code>|all=Y</code> var that just makes it fill up. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:02, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
::::Yeah, that would be helpful, but it's also not hard to copy-paste it from somewhere else once such a case exists. I don't think there are many - aside from the main characters - who've been in all episodes --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:09, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

== Should there be a Main Character category? ==

Nothing in the title specifies only supporting cast, so it seems strange that the seven main characters aren't included. I realize that they appear in almost every episode, but there are occasional episodes without some of them, and I see no reason not to note those.

One issue this would raise, of course, is the distinction between Cylons. Do Boomer and Athena get separate lines? I think so. And if so, probably Gina should be added to Minor Characters. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 14:06, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:We could and should include them. Reality is most people are too lazy to update this page. I might take a shot at it when I have time. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:39, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:Yes, we are lazy, but it might also clutter up the page. Yeah, there are some episodes where someone is missing, but they are in 90+ % of the episodes. Basically I'm against adding them, but I wouldn't mind if there were a consensus for adding them either. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:48, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::It's only 7 rows. We have tens of rows in there already. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:54, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:::Five times 7 rows! That adds up. I see the point in not excluding them, but are in most episodes after all. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:56, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::::But the same argument could be made for many of the "Major" characters. Helo, Chief, and Tigh have missed almost no episodes. The number they've missed is comparable to the number missed by "Main" characters. You could just as easily take them out. An episode without Apollo is just as noteworthy as an episode without Tigh. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 00:05, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

Talk:List of character appearances (TRS)/Archive 1

2007-05-09T05:05:37Z

Alpha5099: /* Should there be a Main Character category? */

== Going to stop with these two ==
Because people need to be made aware of how to do these. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:36, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:I like the format :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:30, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::Oh yeah. Tough list to do. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:04, 15 February 2007 (CST)

It looks messy having a little side table with Adama and Tigh in it. If youre going to do it properly in tables then include everyone. Also i think you should remove the circles so the gap is blank unless there is an X there. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:30, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:Also why is season 2 split up? It was onl in the US that there was a 2.5, every other country in the world aired the series in full both as broadcast and on dvd. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:34, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:1) To Long... 2) Circles Gone... 3) No more "Seen In Every Episode" table. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)

==Matrix Templates==
Nice work with the matrix templates, Shane, Catrope, et al. Can I ask what the distinction is between a "Major" and a "Minor" appearance? Credited in the opening vs. credited at the end? If so, since characters can alternate back and forth (Kat, for example) why not use a special icon or color code to indicate the size of the role, rather than use two rows? For example, we could use different colors for "Appears, but with body double", "Appears, but no lines", "Credited at end", "Credited at beginning" and "Special Guest". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:If we really need a distinction, we could use the one from the character template: [[Template:Characters]]
:Anyone who has a large regular role, but isn't in the main credits is major. Tyrol, Helo, Cally, Gaeta, etc. Though maybe we should group them into "main", "supporting" and "recurring" too. That makes a bit more sense --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:13, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::What I'm saying is that that isn't possible to do objectively. When did Racetrack and Kat go from "recurring" to "supporting"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::I'd say they are still supporting characters. I like Racetrack, but the number of scenes she carries is very low. Kat is more debatable as she had 1 1/2 episodes with a very large role. But you're right. It's hard to do in some cases --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::::Is it even an important distinction? I mean... when this thing gets going full steam splitting them into only two categories is still going to leave a VERY large list on one of the categories (whichever way you split it). Fortunately, it's pretty flexible such that we can easily subdivide it as needed. So... throw out all categories and sort by some criteria (first appearance then last name then first name, just names, etc.)? Add more categories? I think it'd help me visualize it better the more it gets filled out. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:21, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::::Nah, we might as well drop it and just have "main cast" and "supporting cast". For now we should just fill it up and worry about this later --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:23, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::::::I agree with Serenity. If we want to get serious about this, we should get around to getting more data in there. Once we've got that, we can spend the upcoming nine-month break debating who's major and who isn't. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:BTW, Shane deserves credit for most of this stuff, I just copied his season 1 template and tweaked it a little to fit with Seasons 2 and 3. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::And... [[User:Darth Tytis|Darth Tytis]] gets the idea credit :-0 [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:40, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::Don't forget he compiled the list of episodes Leoben appeared in in the first place. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:28, 16 February 2007 (CST)

== Similar article ==

I'll update this list a bit and use this as reference: [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)]]. When we're done here, that article will be redundant. Should we delete it then? Or maybe change it into an article for rare guest characters only like Hadrian, Ishay, Seelix and the like? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:47, 18 February 2007 (CST)
:Now.. this should be better than that one. This is much easier to read. Transfer all. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:03, 18 February 2007 (CST)

== Major/Minor distinction ==

Well, above we said that it's not really necessary, but I think it makes it easier to read. The problem is that the distinction isn't always that clear. I went large with the size of the role and its importance to the episode, so it's more or less recurring vs supporting. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:21, 18 February 2007 (CST)

== Erm, Shane ==

Any particular reason why you removed Helo and Billy from Season 1? Btw, sorry I didn't continue this after doing seasons 1 and 2.0. If noone else does, I'll do it in the next few days. I just hope the [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)|reference]] I used is correct. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:36, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
:They were there the WHOLE season. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:49, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, but that's no reason to not note that somehow. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:55, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Maybe a <code>|all=Y</code> var that just makes it fill up. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:02, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
::::Yeah, that would be helpful, but it's also not hard to copy-paste it from somewhere else once such a case exists. I don't think there are many - aside from the main characters - who've been in all episodes --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:09, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

== Should there be a Main Character category? ==

Nothing in the title specifies only supporting cast, so it seems strange that the seven main characters aren't included. I realize that they appear in almost every episode, but there are occasional episodes without some of them, and I see no reason not to note those.

One issue this would raise, of course, is the distinction between Cylons. Do Boomer and Athena get separate lines? I think so. And if so, probably Gina should be added to Minor Characters. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 14:06, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:We could and should include them. Reality is most people are too lazy to update this page. I might take a shot at it when I have time. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:39, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:Yes, we are lazy, but it might also clutter up the page. Yeah, there are some episodes where someone is missing, but they are in 90+ % of the episodes. Basically I'm against adding them, but I wouldn't mind if there were a consensus for adding them either. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:48, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::It's only 7 rows. We have tens of rows in there already. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:54, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:::Five times 7 rows! That adds up. I see the point in not excluding them, but are in most episodes after all. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:56, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::::But the same argument could be made for many of the "Major" characters. Helo, Chief, and Tigh have missed almost no episodes. The number they've missed is comparable to the number missed by "Main" characters. You could just as easily take them out. An episode without Apollo is just as noteworthy as an episode with Tigh. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 00:05, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

Talk:List of character appearances (TRS)/Archive 1

2007-05-08T19:06:47Z

Alpha5099:

== Going to stop with these two ==
Because people need to be made aware of how to do these. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:36, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:I like the format :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:30, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::Oh yeah. Tough list to do. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:04, 15 February 2007 (CST)

It looks messy having a little side table with Adama and Tigh in it. If youre going to do it properly in tables then include everyone. Also i think you should remove the circles so the gap is blank unless there is an X there. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:30, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:Also why is season 2 split up? It was onl in the US that there was a 2.5, every other country in the world aired the series in full both as broadcast and on dvd. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:34, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:1) To Long... 2) Circles Gone... 3) No more "Seen In Every Episode" table. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)

==Matrix Templates==
Nice work with the matrix templates, Shane, Catrope, et al. Can I ask what the distinction is between a "Major" and a "Minor" appearance? Credited in the opening vs. credited at the end? If so, since characters can alternate back and forth (Kat, for example) why not use a special icon or color code to indicate the size of the role, rather than use two rows? For example, we could use different colors for "Appears, but with body double", "Appears, but no lines", "Credited at end", "Credited at beginning" and "Special Guest". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:If we really need a distinction, we could use the one from the character template: [[Template:Characters]]
:Anyone who has a large regular role, but isn't in the main credits is major. Tyrol, Helo, Cally, Gaeta, etc. Though maybe we should group them into "main", "supporting" and "recurring" too. That makes a bit more sense --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:13, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::What I'm saying is that that isn't possible to do objectively. When did Racetrack and Kat go from "recurring" to "supporting"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::I'd say they are still supporting characters. I like Racetrack, but the number of scenes she carries is very low. Kat is more debatable as she had 1 1/2 episodes with a very large role. But you're right. It's hard to do in some cases --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::::Is it even an important distinction? I mean... when this thing gets going full steam splitting them into only two categories is still going to leave a VERY large list on one of the categories (whichever way you split it). Fortunately, it's pretty flexible such that we can easily subdivide it as needed. So... throw out all categories and sort by some criteria (first appearance then last name then first name, just names, etc.)? Add more categories? I think it'd help me visualize it better the more it gets filled out. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:21, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::::Nah, we might as well drop it and just have "main cast" and "supporting cast". For now we should just fill it up and worry about this later --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:23, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::::::I agree with Serenity. If we want to get serious about this, we should get around to getting more data in there. Once we've got that, we can spend the upcoming nine-month break debating who's major and who isn't. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:BTW, Shane deserves credit for most of this stuff, I just copied his season 1 template and tweaked it a little to fit with Seasons 2 and 3. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:37, 15 February 2007 (CST)
::And... [[User:Darth Tytis|Darth Tytis]] gets the idea credit :-0 [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:40, 15 February 2007 (CST)
:::Don't forget he compiled the list of episodes Leoben appeared in in the first place. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:28, 16 February 2007 (CST)

== Similar article ==

I'll update this list a bit and use this as reference: [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)]]. When we're done here, that article will be redundant. Should we delete it then? Or maybe change it into an article for rare guest characters only like Hadrian, Ishay, Seelix and the like? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:47, 18 February 2007 (CST)
:Now.. this should be better than that one. This is much easier to read. Transfer all. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:03, 18 February 2007 (CST)

== Major/Minor distinction ==

Well, above we said that it's not really necessary, but I think it makes it easier to read. The problem is that the distinction isn't always that clear. I went large with the size of the role and its importance to the episode, so it's more or less recurring vs supporting. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:21, 18 February 2007 (CST)

== Erm, Shane ==

Any particular reason why you removed Helo and Billy from Season 1? Btw, sorry I didn't continue this after doing seasons 1 and 2.0. If noone else does, I'll do it in the next few days. I just hope the [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)|reference]] I used is correct. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:36, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
:They were there the WHOLE season. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:49, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, but that's no reason to not note that somehow. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:55, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Maybe a <code>|all=Y</code> var that just makes it fill up. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:02, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
::::Yeah, that would be helpful, but it's also not hard to copy-paste it from somewhere else once such a case exists. I don't think there are many - aside from the main characters - who've been in all episodes --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:09, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

== Should there be a Main Character category? ==

Nothing in the title specifies only supporting cast, so it seems strange that the seven main characters aren't included. I realize that they appear in almost every episode, but there are occasional episodes without some of them, and I see no reason not to note those.

One issue this would raise, of course, is the distinction between Cylons. Do Boomer and Athena get separate lines? I think so. And if so, probably Gina should be added to Minor Characters. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 14:06, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

Template:Characters (RDM Cylons)

2007-04-28T00:00:46Z

Alpha5099: Alphabetizing

<div align="center">
{| id="charactersrdmcylons" class="messagebox"
|-
| align="center" | '''[[Portal:Cylons|Cylons]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]'''
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" | [[Number Three]] | [[Number Five]] | [[Number Six]] | [[Number Eight]] | [[Simon]] | [[Cavil]] | [[Leoben Conoy]] [[Samuel Anders]] | [[Tory Foster]] | [[Saul Tigh]] | [[Galen Tyrol]]
|-
| align="right" | {{navbar|type=mini|Characters (RDM Cylons)}}
|}
</div>

<noinclude>
[[Category:Navigational Infobox|{{PAGENAME}}]]
</noinclude>

Talk:Number Three/Archive 1

2007-04-25T10:50:25Z

Alpha5099:

==uncategorizes comments==
> and may be one of the eight agents Sharon Valerii revealed to be onboard the Galactica.

When did she reveal this? A link to the episode would be helpful.

:I'm guessing it'll be during her interrogation in one of the new episodes. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 11:42, 5 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:It was, Dr Gaius drugged the chief and he was going to die, and told Boomer that unless she tells him how many cylons there are in the fleet, he would let the chief die. --Viper[[User:68.89.164.132|68.89.164.132]] 19:22, 20 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Also, how do we know this? Ive seen all the eps aired and would have recognized lucy lawless much less if she was revealed to be a cylon --Viper[[User:68.89.164.132|68.89.164.132]] 19:22, 20 Aug 2005 (EDT)
: The episode has yet to air, thus you haven't seen it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:37, 20 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:''Since Biers has not appeared in past episodes that feature the fleet-wide press, it can be speculated that prior to the Cylon Attack, she was more of a tabloid investigative reporter than a mainstream journalist.''

Actually, there's a simpler explanation - the journalists we've seen so far have mostly been members of the press crew covering ''Galactica'''s decomissioning - print journalists and radio commentators. Biers is a filmmaker. I mean, you wouldn't expect to find Michael Moore covering a white house press conference, right? That's just not what he does. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:41, 11 September 2005 (EDT)

I found a good news item for Lucy Lawless's future on the show. It comes from a reliable entertainment news site.

"Lucy Lawless is joining the cast of SciFi's Battlestar Galactica for 10 episodes of the third season. Lawless is reprising her role as D'Anna Biers." Here's the link (you just need to scroll about halfway down): http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0602/06/index.htm
--Ltcrashdown 21:27, 6 February 2006 (EST)

:Um, better than that LTcrashdown, it says this on the front page of the official Scifi.com site. This link just copies the press released from the official site. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:42, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Entertainment Weekly ==

Should it be mentioned that in one of the recent issues of EW, there was some information stating that {{spoiltext|D'Anna would be the leader of the Cylons? The text was "Former Xena, Lucy Lawless, will parlay her second appearance (on Feb. 24) as sentient hottie/brassy TV reporter D'Anna Biers into a full-time gig on Sci-Fi's Battlestar Galactica. The 10-epicode arc, starting next season, will detail D'Anna's emergence as - SPOILER ALERT - leader of her human-hating species, the Cylons. "I'm disinterested in playing a bleeding-heart Cylon," Lawless giggles. Besides, she points out cryptically, "no evil person thinks they're evil."}}--[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 08:44, 7 February 2006 (EST)

DrBat, please read the article first. On January 29th I already got this information from a Lucy Lawless official fansite's transcript of Lawless's appearance at a the official XenaCon. But she also gave the idea that she is not "the" leader of the Cylons; factions will develop when she claims this. Mainstream press like EW usually isn't as accurate as straight-from-the-horse's-mouth actor fansites. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:29, 7 February 2006 (EST)
:Metinks Number Six will have a BIG problem with D'anna trying to take over, IMO. They'll be a catfight on Caprica of epic proportions! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:56, 7 February 2006 (EST)
:Can you post a link and/or some what she said onto Bier's entry? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 12:31, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Um, that's why I was complaining: I ''already'' put all of this information onto the "D'anna" article, plus I ''already'' provided links for it to the Lawless fansite I got it from (which has proved a quite reliable source in the past; Lawless gives lots of spoilers). I am sorry, but the impression I got was that Dreamer didn't bother to read this article before adding redundant material. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:12, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::I don't know if you're referring to me, but all the quote on the page says is that the character sets herself up as a god. It doesn't say anything about factions developing among the Cylons over whether or not to view her as their leader. --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 11:56, 9 February 2006 (EST)

{{spoiltext|Other spoilers from the same source relate how Number Six is going to beat a D'anna copy to death with a rock and fight her, etc., plus other sources have talked about internal factions: they're dividing. }}--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:42, 9 February 2006 (EST)
:I believe you, I was just asking if you could post a link and some text about the factions. The current link only mentions Lucy playing a character who views herself as a god. --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 07:33, 10 February 2006 (EST)

==Fanlisting==

Um, what exactly does a fanlist do?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 07:32, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
:They list all 20 fans, of course, including both "D'Anna Biers" and "LINDSAY." ...So, to be less bitterly sarcastic, they let fans of something know about other fans so they can contact each other or whatever. I'd vote for the link getting pulled. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 10:34, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

==Main Image==
Hey, I was wondering which of these three images you would prefer if I placed as a main image.

The first is the same as the current, but cropped so that we can actually see her better.

The second is another promo image, cropped to show a specific section of her, and she is in another psot.

The third is a crop of the last.

<gallery>
Image:Drei.jpg
Image:Drei2.jpg
Image:Drei3.jpg
</gallery>

I myself sort of prefer the middle or last one, but all are good for me. The most important thing is that the image conveys the character and her attitude, so other people's opinions would be nice :)--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:45, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
:I'm thinking the third one. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:01, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
:I'll go for the third one too. The black background is easier on the eyes, but you see more of her than in pic 2 --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:03, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
::Great, I'll put the third one then ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18:17, 17 September 2006 (CDT)

So, I was waiting for episode 3x07 to air to bring this up, and it's that a lot of good promotional images were released for Three in this episode. Now, DrBat put one up, but the one I had actually thought would've made a really good one (albeit, had mentioned yet for spoiler safety of readers) is this one [http://media.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Season_3_-_Promo_-_AMOS_-_Number_Three.jpg] because it's a better angle in my opinion and she looks more formal, but you choose whichever you want.

So let's call for a vote for the main picture

<gallery>
Image:Threemos.PNG|Picture1
Image:Season 3 - Promo - AMOS - Number Three.jpg|Picture 2
</gallery>

One of these, or the past ones. My vote goes for “Picture 2” of this batch, as I said above, I think she simply looks better and more in her natural environment, but choose as you please. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:35, 11 November 2006 (CST)
*I just want to add that I actually do like the one presently there right now, however, I do feel like that angle is a bit weird for D'anna, but whichever of the pics is selected, I think the other one still deserves to be on the article. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:06, 11 November 2006 (CST)
:Meh, it looks good, ignore everything I say. I hate it when there are two pics equally good an you can decide :P --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:11, 13 November 2006 (CST)
::I prefer picture 1 because picture 2 has her body turned a little to the side, and she's cast in a blue light. --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 21:33, 20 November 2006 (CST)
== Capitalization of the "A" in D'Anna ==

I noticed that the main page for the character has a lowercase "a" after the apostrophe. That doesn't appear to be correct. The episode summaries on the official Sci Fi site spell the name with a capital A. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 23:21, 2 October 2006 (EDT)

== Disambiguation? ==

I'm wondering if we're going to have to do some in-article disambiguation soon between D'anna, the mainline Threes and "Oracle-Three" (the one having the visions). Any thoughts on this?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:42, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
:I think the article is sufficient so far. D'anna Biers, and the Three that is the antigonist of Caprica-Six are the only ones significantly differentiated. It's likely (although not confirmable unless a [[BW:OC]] answer comes) that the Three that is revealed at the end of "[[Final Cut]]" is the same one. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:48, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
:"Oracle-Three" may well be D'anna Biers, since she was the one who was shocked by news of Hera's death in a Downloaded deleted scene. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 08:59, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::She's the same Three who got rocked by Six, and that means it can't be D'anna since at the same time D'anna was trying to steal the child. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:33, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:::What makes you think she's the same Three who got rocked by Six? [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:26, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::::I think it was in various interviews, but you did make me think, so I'll look around to see precisely why I believe it is the Rocker. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:44, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

==It '''IS''' D'anna==
So, I had previousley argued that the Three we see with the baby & stuff is the one that got "rocked" by Six. However, the discussion made me look for proof, so I looked for the very first time we saw the Three that was certainly the one who got the baby, and I remembered that we see her ear, and she has 3 ear pearcincs in one ear.

Now I know this is LL, so any Three could have them, but then I thought that maybe, if D'anna had previousley appeared with 3 Earings, this was a clue that it was that Three (since their bodies are probably not made with pearcings). And I was suprrised to find, that D'anna Biers did, indeed, wear 3 earings in the same fashion, one which no other Three has worn.

So I admit I was wrong and we now know that "Baby-Three" is indeed "D'anna Biers". I put this in a category of it's own because I consider the proof important.

I know many of you had already assumed this, but this is my proof that it's the same character, and that we might disambiguate at least this specific Cylon from the batch. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:57, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

:The questions that bring up would be if "Baby-Three" is indeed "D'anna Biers", did she live a year with the humans and never managed to bump into Anders or the others who were rescued,(who know what a Three looks like) or was D'anna perhaps killed from the Cloud 9 explosion and somehow resurected? [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 22:53, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

::The Cylon copies share memories; while it probable that the Three that carries Hera away is the Fleet's "D'anna," we cannot be sure. ALL Cylon models have the same identity that changes over time with exposure and experience. The D'anna copy did not speak in kiwi accent, now, all do. Photographic evidence for everyone (with episode citations) could help your case. There's nothing in aired content that I'm aware of which suggests where the original D'anna model ends up. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:27, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

:::You can see D'Anna with 3 earings in "Final Cut", and the Three we see shows them very clearly in "Exodus I". But that aside, the clearest evidence is the one presented in the point below. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21:23, 17 November 2006 (CST)

==Was that a Retcon?==
I just watched "[[Hero]]", and unless I'm mistaken that had a retcon, making the deleted scenes in "[[Downloaded]]" non canonical (at least the ones with D'Anna), and making "Rock Three" and "D'Anna Biers" the exact same Cylon.....

Unless Rock Three shared her memory and D'Anna for some reason took her place in Cylon society, but I doubt that, so this smells like a retcon to me. Thoughts? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21:23, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:Apparently she's "Rock-Three", not the reporter. Only "Rock Three" flashbacks were in that sequence, not D'Anna Biers flashbacks. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:01, 17 November 2006 (CST)
::Actually, the whole dream she had of being shot was not only with the D'Anna costume, but in Galactica, making it impossible for her to be any other Three. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:::The costume doesn't tell us much of anything, and the Cylons would know about the internal design of Galactica via the reports of Boomer, Shelly Godfrey and Bomber Doral. Anyway, RDM says in his podcast that the sequence was set up to tease the viewer as long as possible. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:03, 1 December 2006 (CST)
::::Well I'm just saying, I doubt it's a coincidence she was wearing both D'Anna costumes, but whether the memory is another Three's or hers is unknown. It does seem to me, however, that her being D'Anna would be the simplest explanation as to why she remembers some things, and why everyone calls her that. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

==Reorganize with information from Hero==
Sorry if I'm repeating anything above, but I just want to establish consensus before we reorganize the article.

The flashbacks seen during Three's suicide in "[[Hero]]" included images of:
*Three, sitting in a theater with other Cylons in "Final Cut"
*Three, leveling a gun at Anders in "Downloaded"
*Three, finding Hera on New Caprica in "Exodus, Part II" (this one was referred to by Baltar as "D'anna")
This strongly suggests that these Threes, and the one featured recently on the Basestar, are the same person.

Meanwhile, the Fleet copy would be the one featured in "Final Cut" and cut from "Downloaded". Although we don't know her ultimate fate, it's almost inconceivable that she managed to avoid being out by Anders for over a year on New Caprica. Until we learn otherwise, the safest assumption is that she was executed, like the two Cavils in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:36, 1 December 2006 (CST)
:Well, the main Three had a dream in which she was dressed as D'Anna Biers and was in D'Anna's setting....so it's still rather unclear. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:59, 18 December 2006 (CST)

==Info box incorrect?==

The info box states that the Three that Bulldog killed was presumably not resurrected. I'm assuming this is because of the virus she appears to have being a threat to the cylons.

Kara reasoned later in that episode that the cylons on the basestar Bulldog was on faked being sick. This was to trick the colonials with a story they would buy into. Kara asked what are the odds that there were two seperate viruses. There weren't. The cylons on Bulldog's basestar didn't encounter the probe either so they don't have the original virus.

Three faked being sick for Bulldog's benefit so he would think his escape was plausible. When she died she was almost certainly able to download into another body.

(granted it's all a moot point now) --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 05 February 2007.
:And he didn't hit her forhead, he punched her nose into her braincase, or so it appears.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:10, 5 February 2007 (CST)
::I removed the "presumably not resurrected" note. I also removed a bit about Three being shot by a marine in [[Hero]], which only happens in a dream. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 08:41, 5 February 2007 (CST)

== Cleanup ==

This article is highly wordy and, worst of all, repeats episode summary information and other data found on other articles. It needs to truncate the relevant elements of the model's tendencies and notable history without extended narrative. I removed the overly detailed list of "deaths" to the only relevant one; it's a Cylon and doesn't die in the conventional sense. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:35, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

:I'm going to take a pass or two at this article ASAP. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 11:48, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

== "End of Line" ==

Since I don't want to enter into a revert war, I'll just start discussion here: DrBat changed the caption "End of Line" underneath the picture of D'Anna's boxing to "D'Anna is boxed". I reverted, saying it was supposed to be humorous. He reverted that, saying he didn't see the humor of D'Anna's death.

So, do you think "End of Line" is an appropriate caption?
* {{support}} One of the funnier things around here --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:33, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
* {{support}} While the line is attributed to the Hybrid, D'Anna also saw it in her death dreams, so it is pertinent to the article. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:03, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
* {{support}} per Joe. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 13:09, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
* {{support}} I like it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:27, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
* {{support}} Joe said my thoughts exactly. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:01, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
* {{oppose}} "End of Line" is a misleading description. We probably haven't seen the last of her too. --[[User:ywhtptgtfo|ywhtptgtfo]]
* {{oppose}} ''Again'', why is her death supposed to be humorous? I don't recall seeing the [[image:BSG WIKI Silly.png|30px]] template on this article. Saying she gets boxed is more appropiate and factual. --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 16:40, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
* {{support}} A little levity is fine, here and there. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:44, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
* {{support}} It's funny, but it's pertinent to her (ultimate?) fate. --[[User:Panopticon|Panopticon]] 16:58, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
* {{support}} It has semi-comedic irony, and it's relevant/factual. The two are not mutually exclusive. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:49, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Looks clear to me, I'm putting "End of Line" back up. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:51, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

==Splitting the D'annas?==

It seems to me that one way to make this article less unwieldy would be to go the Sharon route and split it into a few separate D'anna Biers articles. It would be a little tricky, because we don't know exactly who is who, but it wouldn't be that hard. Galactica Three and Caprica Three are definitely two separate individuals, and Season Three Three is definitely the same one throughout. It seems like the consensus is that Caprica Three and Season Three Three are one and the same, and that's how I feel. But even if we don't want to commit to that, we can give Caprica and S3 their own articles and note that evidence suggests they are the same.

In terms of disambiguation, I'd probably go by episode, so there'd be Number Three (Final Cut), Number Three (Downloaded), and Number Three (Season Three), or just the first two if Caprica and S3 are the same one. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 05:50, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Reboot/Archive 1

2007-04-22T17:03:32Z

Alpha5099:

== Reboot Thoughts ==

A good idea; since much of what we know of the Seven really may not apply. It's like the start all over again (complete with annoying delay between miniseries cliffhanger and first season). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:27, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

I think this page is a good idea but can't we assume some people ARE exempt from being cylons? Helo and Cally probably aren't cylons because we've been told cylons can't breed with other cylons (granted that might not hold between two final fivers or one final fiver and one significant seven). Lee has a childhood that not only he remembers but also remembered by his father (granted Lee could always turn out to be half-cylon). --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 15 April 2007
: What we have is RDM telling us that Nicholas and Hera are cylon-human hybrids, which does indeed tell us that Helo and Cally are humans. The "Cylons can't breed with other Cylons" however can't be confirmed for the F5 as you note. We don't know the F5 did not have childhoods (Tyrol certainly feels he did, he even claims his childhood is well documented when Tigh accuses him of being a Cylon). In addition, since RDM only picked the 4 Cylons and wrote their backstories during season 3, we even have to discount some of his podcast and interview quotes from S1 and S2 about this thoughts on Cylon nature then -- he has now done much more development on it and I am sure has changed his mind of a few minor things and may even retcon some. Exclusion should be soley based on things learned about the F5 in season 3.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:25, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
::I'd tend to agree with this. RDM's MO is more extemporaneous, and it sounded like (especially from the podcast of Crossroads, II) the final four weren't selected until season 3, and so there'd be no (intended) clues until that had been determined. It sounds like he refuses to be bound to the rules we tried to impose on him for the final five... I don't know what he'll constrain himself to for the last one. Except that [[Boxey (RDM)]] is probably a bit old now to do a reprise... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:14, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm working my way through the series again, almost through Season three (I'm a few episodes short in the middle), so I'm not sure if this has already been addressed, but didn't the colonel say "Oh my god, Ellen." as he was in the Gym with the other three? As I was watching that, I thought that this implied that she was the final Cylon, and the colonel was bothered because he was responsible for her death... and if I remember correctly, she was assisting the Cylons on New Caprica. Just a thought. --[[User:Teegtahn|Teegtahn]] 21:25, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

:Didn't get that at all. Tigh and Anders are listing a variety of events from their life that no longer make sense. Tigh ends his list with "Ellen, my gods, what about ellen?" almost in tears. Remember that Tigh's whole theme for the episode, and indeed for the whole season, has been remorse over killing Ellen. Now he learns he killed her for being a Cylon collaborator, and he turns out to be a Cylon. Is it hard to understand how this would be hard to bear? It's not anger he says this with, but anguish.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 22:53, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
::I think you are right Brad, at leasts thats how I felt about the scene. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 02:53, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::I had considered that, but, to the same argument I could argue that the statement is implying that Ellen was executed on the basis of being a Cylon collaborator, when she herself was a Cylon along with Tigh. My basis for this is belief is Cylons seem to be attracted to eachother when they're not aware they're cylons (Reference: Tyrol & Sharon). I'm rolling through the third season again on my PVR, so I may have to reconsider my position after I've seen this all-in-a-row. But once again, this is just a thought. --[[User:Teegtahn|Teegtahn]] 17:42, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::No, in the frak podcast RDM says these 4 Cylons know nothing else, less than the audience, other than that a switch has gone off so they are sure they are Cylons. So they don't know who the 5th Cylon was, Ellen or otherwise. Play back this scene. Tigh's been moping about Ellen's death all season, and especially in this episode. Everything they say is, as far as I can tell said in the context of, "Why 40 years in the service when I'm a Cylon" "Why the resistance when I'm a Cylon etc." Ellen is the cap. If he were realizing Ellen were a Cylon -- and RDM's statement seems to confirm he's not -- the would be reacting with joy that she's probably still alive and downloaded, not anguish at the tragic irony that he killed her for being a Cylon collaborator. Hogan's a good enough actor that to me he is screaming this. Anyway, I don't want to get into a speculation war since he doesn't spell it out in precise words, but he has not become aware Ellen is Cylon (indeed he's shocked to learn the other 3 are too) so he's not crying out Ellen's name in anguish because he realized she is a Cylon. The 4 have realized one thing -- that they are Cylons, and have been from the start.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:32, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::My apologies, I had not heard the podcast. Thanks for helping me clear it up -- It's a shame though, for a split second I thought I had it. --[[User:Teegtahn|Teegtahn]] 19:42, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

== No Replacements? ==

Does that even still hold? The Final Five are a whole different kettle of fish, and Moore seems to have reevaluated his conception of who can be a Cylon now. Statements he made near the beginning of the show's run may not hold anymore. Personally, I'm not sure that the no replacement rule still applies. But I might be biased, because I think the reveal of Lee would be amazing (although I don't want the gender ratio to get any more frakked up). Anyway, personally, the only people I'm willing to remove from suspicion are Helo and Cally. Moore said he doesn't want Adama and Roslin to be Cylons either, and that's pretty good evidence they won't be, but even there I don't see it set in stone. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:03, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Characters eliminated from suspicion/Archive 1

2007-04-22T16:51:23Z

Alpha5099:

I don't get why death disproves a character as a Cylon. We're talking about the final five here. If one of them died, they would of course not reappear on board the fleet, but could very well appear as one of the final five later. {{unsigned|Bradtem}}
:As noted (ad nauseum) on the talk page of the Humanoid Cylon speculation article, death removes a character from suspicion because ONLY a Cylon can return from the dead. If the character returns, they are obviously a Cylon. Until the other Cylon characters are actually revealed on-air, however, we don't know who has returned (and cannot speculate further--that's fanwanking). Thus, dead is dead unless the character is truly revealed in a show. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:01, 3 March 2007 (CST)

== Why are any of these eliminated ==

I've said it before, but Saul Tigh as Cylon seems to confirm it. I don't see how any of these characters can be eliminated. Based on Tyrol, it seems likely that Final Five cylons can breed without trouble. I see nothing in the show to indicate they are at risk from the virus. Age and having fought in the Cylon war are not barriers -- the Final Five are, as is now clear, a different breed of Cylon that, like Tigh, are older than the Cylons we have seen in the show. I see nothing that says they can't breed, can't be somebody's child (Tigh was a teenage warrior, Tyrol remembers his childhood though that could be a fake memory) can't handle the virus, can't have brothers and sisters or have long associations. It's very likely (I would even say close to confirmed) that they are older than the colonies themselves.

Alas, even the above rule that a character that returns from death must be a Cylon is now false. We certainly aren't sure that the returned Starbuck is the final Cylon, and there's evidence she is not.

I suspect we need to rethink the page about the remaining member of the Final 5. Nobody (except the 11 known Cylons) is eliminated from suspicion. It's worth documenting unusual events which might point the finger at any given character, but the old rules are gone.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 03:56, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

:Cally and Helo are eliminated because they were able to successfully breed with Cylons, Lee and Kacey are eliminated because they have living human parents, Hot Dog, Racetrack and Erin Mathias are eliminated due to exposure to the lymphocyic encephalopathy. William Adama and Lee Adama are eliminated because they have verified character histories dating back to birth. Laura Roslyn and Tom Zarek are the only living characters on this list who are still candidates. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 06:43, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
::We don't know that Cylons can't breed with other Cylons, only that they haven't been able to do it yet. Wasn't love pointed out as a missing ingredient in one of the episodes? Tom Zarek and Laura are fair game as you pointed out as well. The "dead" characters shouldn't be on this list, because obviously if we included every crewmember that was killed we'd have a pretty long list (even if you only included characters on Tory's level). We don't even know if the final five are susceptible to that virus that killed the others, because we've not seen them exposed to it. Basically, I agree with Bradtem that until we see/hear differently the Final Five break all the rules, and only a few exceptions (Bill Adama and high profile people who had children before Hera. If he was a Cylon it was possible he could have children, but the cylons not knowing about their most high profile sleeper agent breeding is unlikely.) can be discounted.--[[User:Dev|Dev]] 12:55, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
:There is also the fact that I mentioned on another page: that in the case of the Final Five, there does not necessarily have to mean that the rules are the same. For example, even though Galen's a Cylon, that does not necessarily mean he's lying about his parents, nor that they were made up - bear in mind, he may have been adopted (though I won't go into more detail to avoid fanwanking). For that matter, we're still not even sure that the "returned" Starbuck is actually Kara back in action and not just Lee going insane in the membrane.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 22:29, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
::I still think that we should assume that any rule which applies to the other Cylons applies equally to the final five until that individual rule has been refuted. The only rules which Crossroads invalidated are the 2 year rule and the Ragnar Anchorage radiation rule. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:43, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Actually, the Ragnar radiation rule was never truly invalidated, since Boomer was never affected by it either... Also, it took time for [[Aaron Doral]] to start exhibiting symptoms before the other Cylons rescued him. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:15, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Sorry, but this assumption that any rule that applies to the other Cylons applies to the #1 Cylon until refuted is exactly the assumption which made the previous speculation page _completely worthless_. Not only has the show not told us the rules are the same, it has very explicitly told us the rules are very, very different. I tried, with no success, to get people to realize they were making big assumptions that were not confirmed in the show. Is it really necessary to say that again? Before, the show was just suggesting that the F5 are under entirely different rules, now it's screaming it and RDM is saying it in interviews.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:26, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
::::As another option, we could could treat each of the remaining rules a character violates as evidence suggesting they may not be a Cylon rather than definitive proof that they are not a Cylon. The last Cylon might violate some of the remaining rules, but I don't think he or she is going to violate all the remaining rules like William Adama. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 16:18, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::You might not think that, but the mistake of the previous page was people assumed (even in the face of counter-arguments) things that were not specified in the show. I think Adama is a prime candidate myself. He and Roslin are the ones that would most inspire the words "I had no idea" from Three, in my view. But that's simply what I think. I was hoping that people would realize what a giant mistake the qualifiers listed were. Assumptions can guide your thinking on the show, but you would be unwise to lay down a rule that refuses to accept anybody, including Adama, as a candidate, because Moore has clearly showed you he will show your assumptions to be wrong unless you pay careful attention.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 20:38, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::William Adama has confirmed contact with Joseph Adama, Joseph Adama has had confirmed contact with Lee Adama and it has been officially stated that the humanoid Cylons are not copies of specific humans. It's extremely unlikely that a Cylon could have secretly killed and replaced William Adama without his family noticing. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:53, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::Trying not to argue things here, but you're making assumptions shown not to be true in the show. Tigh, who fought in the first Cylon war (confirmed by RDM) is an F5. F5s have no problem having kids. F5s age with time. Adama is similar age to Tigh. As RDM says, these are a very different kind of Cylon. I know many people assumed they were the same type but they are just plain not, we have it from the show, we have it from RDM. They are from a prior generation, not from the generation of Cylons made by the colonials, or they could hardly have fought in the war. Yes, if Adama is Cylon then Lee and Zack are possibly half-Cylon, just as Nicholas Tyrol is. Nothing in the show contradicts this. Until we learn more about the F5 there are few rules on who #1 is or is not, so justify your proposals with canon and have at it.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 03:36, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::Adama could very possibly be a Cylon. I thought he was ruled out because of his high profile, but then I remembered that the other 7 DONT KNOW WHO THE FINAL FIVE ARE. At least if you can take D'Anna's reaction to seeing one of their faces as typical. I don't think ANYBODY can be ruled out as of now, since apparently they break all the rules. Somebody edited the page to keep the "3 year" and Cylon war rules in place, yet with Tigh we know that's invalid.

::::::::We don't know that the final five aren't immune to the virus as are humans. Apparently they've been around for awhile. They could be old enough to have developed an immunity to it. Not old as in how long they've been conscious or how old they look, but how long ago they were built. It seems the F5 weren't build by the current residents of the 12 Colonies, and they hold some religious correlation to the 5 priests from the temple. If they're that old, there's no reason they couldn't have developed an immunity just like the humans.

::::::::As I said above, we don't know that Cylons are unable to breed, just that they haven't been able to breed with each other thus far. They seemed to think they lacked love was the reason, which is why Helo/Boomer and Tyrol/Cally were able to reproduce. It seems irrational scientifically speaking, but there are many irrational things in the BSG universe. --[[User:Dev|Dev]] 12:55, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

:::::::::I still don't see how or when Cylons had the opportunity to capture or kill the real William Adama and replace him with a Cylon who could successfully assume his identity without some member of his family becoming suspicious. We're talking about the only character with a confirmed history predating the Cylon War. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:27, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Or, just a silly thought, we could always ask Bradley whether or not the Final Five are from the same genetic pool that the Significant Seven are... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:50, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

== A Measure of Salvation ==

I'm kind of surprised that no one noted that Adama and others met with the [[Lymphocytic encephalitis]]-infected [[Simon]] without quarantine procedures. Also, Doc Cottle should really be here as well, since he is exposed to [[Lymphocytic encephalitis]] as well (from checking on the prisoners), but does not fall ill from it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:08, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:True. I hadn't considered that. However, what was the established transmission mechanism of the illness (if any)? Airborne? Fluid? Funky-bio-Cylon-electronsmission? (Just bounce the tetrion beam off the deflector dish, silly.) That is to say, even if they were standing in the same room wouldn't necessarily mean that the illness could have been transmitted to them. Though if Cottle had been infected, I suppose he could still be giving himself injections of the vaccine (indefinitely). If anybody else were infected, though, it'd be awfully suspicious if they needed frequent injections of the stuff. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:41, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:I don't recall there being any. But it more than likely was airborne, seeing as the entire ship was affected by it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:51, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
::I'd tend to agree, but it could just as easily have been fluid based (what with all the liquid based control interfaces), or even sexually transmitted (uh... yeah). The fact that the Raiders and Centurions also appear to have been affected may have been a factor of the Hybrid/entire basestar being knocked out, but may also point to a more electronic/networking transmission (which potentially would be even more virulent than airborne, and wouldn't even need direct contact.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:08, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Right. It'd be nice if we actually see some Cylons getting the freak on just for fun (after all dolphins and humans do the same thing). ;-) Back to the issue though, I imagine that physical content or bodily fluids would be likely as well. (After all the encephalitis was carried by rats, much like the [[w:Black Plague|Black Plague]] in the 14th century.) So, on second thought, it could go either way. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:25, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
::::[[Crossroads, Part II#Teaser|We just did]]. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:15, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::LOL, true. Actually, far [[Miniseries|earlier than]] that if you consider Tyrol and Boomer. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:31, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

== Deletion ==

Since the Final Five are "fundamentally different" from the Significant Seven, I propose that the article be deleted, since no characters, at this point in time, are feasibly capable of being eliminated from suspicion. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:05, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
:I concur with proposal for deletion. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 14:45, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
::I concur as well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:03, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
:::As do I. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 08:59, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
::::It would do to remove this line of speculation now. I concur with deletion. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:24, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
:Oppose -- but it should be started as a clean slate. We do have confirmation on a very small number of characters from RDM, such as Cally, since he has stated Nik is a human-Cylon hybrid. The key is to make people be more careful about their assumptions.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 14:06, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
::Actually, I wouldn't be opposed to that either. But the page as is should be deleted, none the less, and "rebooted" like [[Humanoid Cylon speculation/Reboot|its parent]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:35, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
:I concur. So say we all. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 11:03, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

==Took out irrelevant "Flesh and Bone" references==

This page is supposed to give the reasons why these characters absolutely cannot be Cylons. However, both Adamas had irrelevant information in them. In fact, the Lee entry had absolutely no information that excused him from suspicion. I reduced William Adama's entry to be in line with Roslin, as they are cleared on the same grounds, and I rewrote Lee's, although I think he has the weakest case of any of these five. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 11:51, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Biski Gugushe/Archive 1

2007-04-19T03:56:45Z

Alpha5099: New page: Are you sure that this guy plays both the co-pilot and Sekou Hamilton? I've looked at that picture of the co-pilot, and it just doesn't look anything like Sekou Hamilton. I've asked others...

Are you sure that this guy plays both the co-pilot and Sekou Hamilton? I've looked at that picture of the co-pilot, and it just doesn't look anything like Sekou Hamilton. I've asked others, and they agree. The fact sounds like it comes from on high, but I have a really hard time seeing it. Anyone else confused? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 22:56, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Portal talk:Cylons

2007-04-18T06:42:20Z

Alpha5099:

Where and how will this be displayed when finished?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:37, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:Still working on that. It has to do with the new Main Page design that I worked on. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 21:38, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== Boxheader template issues ==
The biggest outstanding issue is with the boxheader regarding defining the colors for the title/body/borders, etc. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:23, 15 March 2006 (CST)
: Colors should not, if possible, be specified in the wikicode or the HTML. Ideally, we should use classes to control color, so that these templates may look good across all skins for the Wiki. This might take some coordination with Joe, though. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:23, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::Didn't he send you the CSS so you could play with that? Anyway, if you can get the colors going, you're welcome to them. I can't even HARDCODE them correctly through all these layers of templates (portal->portal/boxheader->boxheader). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:36, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:::I am going to solict some outside help for this problem. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 10:00, 16 March 2006 (CST)

== TOS Cylon Pic ==
Would you like me to get a screen capture of a close-up of a TOS Centurion? I think that would look better than the DVD box cover. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:19, 17 March 2006 (CST)
: Sure. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:20, 18 March 2006 (CST)

== Limiting the universe? ==

Is this portal to be restricted to the RDM universe? As the wording curently stands, a very large chunk of this page relates only to RDM, not TOS/1980. Anything beyond the 5th sentence, in fact. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 08:06, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:No. It's unretricited to series. Right now most of the infomration I knew came from the RDM series. Once we get the "boxes" to work with the edit button I can add something about the (TOS) "Toaster" Cylons compared with the RDM Metal Cylons. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:53, 19 March 2006 (CST)

== What's Up With This? ==

So I was clicking around and seeing what was going on with this (I missed the upgrade and so didn't realize we could begin forward motion again)? This portal is listed as "done" on the project page but looks kind of jacked up to me. Should we move it, or am I missing some detail or... something? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 02:41, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:Correct. This is currently "jacked up". I think Shane dropped it down to one box to simplify the task of troubleshooting why the boxheaders/boxfooters aren't working as designed. I guess this could be safely moved to "not done". --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:15, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::The introduction text is ''really'' poorly written right now. Is the page intended to speak of ALL Cylons, or properly divide the RDM and TOS varieties? I missed the upgrade adjustments as well and so I'm trying to figure in the purpose and advantage of the portals vs their existing articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:52, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::The idea behind the portals would be not to replace an existing article, but to act as a central hub for activity and interest about specific topics. Example: [[Wikipedia:Portal:Physics]]. The person who started this Portal intended it to encompass ALL Cylons, but there's probably a lot more interest and activity related to the RDM Cylons. There was actually some pretty interesting stuff on earlier versions of this page if you dig back into the history, but there are currently technical difficulties that are keeping the portal boxes from being implemented as smoothly as the Wikipedia one (check out the code behind the wikipedia portal). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:02, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I'm not sure there really is one, particularly with as small an article space as we have compared to wikipedia. At any rate, having TOS, 1980 and RDM content mixed together doesn't strike me as very useful. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:40, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Current Human-Cylon Models Sub-Portal ==

I have been trying for a week and I still cannot get the pictures to line up on the main Cylons Portal page. When you go to edit the Current Human-Cylon Models Sub-Portal it looks fine but editing the script on the Cylons portal does nothing. Anyone else have any ideas? [[User:Nwobkwr|Nwobkwr]] 17:29, 23 May 2006 (CDT)

:Maybe it would be and look better if instead of the Agents we just put a list of everything that fits into the Cylon Category organized by what it is?

Ex: '''Cylon Vessels:'''
Raider
Basestar
Resurrection Ship
Heavy raider

I dunno, I think it would look a bit more organized... --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:59, 02 June 2006

:Maybe we could have a separate list of ships but putting them all together would be a little crowded. Anyway,-->the pictures still aren't lining up right. We may have to drop those reference tags if they're screwing up the alignment and just write than info on the bottom. Actually, I'll try that out now; if it doens't work change it back or something. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 08:13, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

::Actually, I meant without pictures (at least the majority), sort of like the simple Cylon Page, but instead of being organized by Letter organized by category. Just some thoughts, since I've found it hard to get to certain articles without searching. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 05:24, 05 June 2006

::: How about using invisible wikitables? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 06:28, 5 June 2006 (CDT)

The wikitables idea is good but it appears it is already set up that way in the sub-portal. If you're not sure what I mean click the edit button beside "Current Human-Cylon Models." When the page comes up click Portal at the top and you'll see what I mean. It also seems that the entire page needs some revamping since new items have been added since my last post. [[User:Nwobkwr|Nwobkwr]] 18:50, 9 June 2006 (CDT)

==Three known to the fleet?==
With Anders in the fleet, wouldn't they know of Number 3 now? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 19:16, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
:Yes and No. There is no on screen evidence that eh told her. I was thinking about this too and I was tempted to remove it myself. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:56, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
::Well, given that Threes were fairly visible in the occupation, I think it's safe to say they're known to the fleet. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:35, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

=="Suspected Cylon of the Week"==
I think it should be changed to [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] because of all the speculation after Exodus II. (even though I think he is NOT a cylon) - [[User:Genome4824|GMo >:M:<]] 21:16, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
:Go crazy. :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:48, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

==Number 2==
I think we should add a notes section that talks about Cavil being #2 (refer to [[Talk:Cavil#Number_Two]]). Say something like "Some fans believe [[Cavil]] is actually #2

Evidence:
* "Number Two: This is three downloads for me." that is the quote from the Captioning for Exodus Part I.
:{{neutral}} (Are we allowed to use that outside of actual votes?) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:00, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} Captioning evidence is far to flimsy. Let's be patient. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:05, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} Ditto with what Peter said, and I'd like him to be Number Two, but can't let emotions guide the reporting.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 20:08, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} Also. CC is designed to indetify which person is speaking. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:11, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} Captions are often misspelled, incorrect, and not in sync with dialogue (particularly the case with ad-libs). Stronger evidence is needed before making a determination. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:00, 29 October 2006 (CST)
::Guess we are allowed to use it outside of votes! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:15, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} As with the points above, CC is not a good source, and though I'd also be thrilled at him having a number, I'd rather it be confirmed elsewhere. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:09, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} As above. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:10, 29 October 2006 (CST)

== "Human-Cylon Models of the Reimagined Series" Box Clean-Up? ==

Does anyone else think that the current layout for the Cylon Agent box is getting messy. It'd be a great template if we had more numbers, and it was fine with just Leoben, Cavil, and Simon, but now that we've gotten four more cylons, it just seems kind of silly to have all those blank heads and then the other seven down below, taking up so much room. I really like [[this template|http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Cylon_Models#Known_Models]]. Changing the one here to that one I think would work well. Another thing we could do is just reduce the spacing between the Number Unknown cylons in this template. There's no reason they need three lines. Reduce the spacing, and you can get all four of the newest ones onto a single line. If, IF, we ever get the rest of the numbers, I think this template could be great, but with so many numbers unknown, it seems cluttered to me. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 13:19, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:Right. The unknowns should be removed in the list of all 12, and all members of the Significant Seven be put there. Then the Final Five (Four) can be listed below. I don't share the obsession about their numbers anyways. There is no meaning behind them. Right now, it's just pointless duplication. I think it looks much better now. Comments? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:42, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
::It looks scattered and confusing to me right now. Can't you get it into a nice 4x3 matrix? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:59, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Only by losing the Significant Seven/Final Five distinction. I think that's at least something people would want. Maybe put all seven in one row? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:07, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
::::True. The 4-3-5 layout you've good right now is good in essentials, but the pictures are somewhat shifted, i.e. Leoben should be in the middle between Three and Five (right now he's too far to the left), Simon between Five and Six (slightly to the right atm), and Cavil between Six and Eight (almost directly underneath Eight currently). You should be able to do this with a 2x7 table (2 rows, 7 cols), putting the pictures in the odd-numbered columns in the top row, and the even-numbered columns in the bottom row. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:40, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::In the end.. though.. they will all be listed by model number.. I hope. So lets just do it.. Unk... Numbers .... Unk Numbers in 6 wide, 2 deep. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:51, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::I see what you mean. I'll see what can be done... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:13, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
::::::Erm, Shane, could you explain what you mean? Also, the number known/unknown distinction is already present. The page looks slightly better now, except that Cavil is still somewhat too far to the right, and Leoben too far to the left. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 06:27, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::::Probably an alignment issue. Theoretically they are all centered in their cells though. This table stuff confuses me somewhat. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:20, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
Is there no better title than The Significant Seven? I realize it was the term that was used in some interviews, but it was never used in the series, and personally, I think it sounds pretty silly, especially considering that the Final Five seem to be the significant ones. Anything better to call them? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 01:42, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

== Some questions ==

In the last cylon box: "The Last Cylon's true identity is only known to him- or herself." - do we know this? They could be like Boomer or the "final four".

This portal does not mention [[Raiders (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]], the [[hybrid]], or [[Hera Agathon]] and [[Nicholas Tyrol]], who are all cylons to some extent. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 08:07, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

:Fixed. Changed it to "is unknown". I also linked spacecraft in general and the basestar hybrid. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:43, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Can anyone explain what is going on with the "Final Stats" section of the Last Cylon box. Number of Suspected Cylons: 5? Where did this number come from? What does it mean? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 01:39, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Portal talk:Cylons

2007-04-18T06:39:49Z

Alpha5099:

Where and how will this be displayed when finished?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:37, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:Still working on that. It has to do with the new Main Page design that I worked on. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 21:38, 15 March 2006 (CST)

== Boxheader template issues ==
The biggest outstanding issue is with the boxheader regarding defining the colors for the title/body/borders, etc. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:23, 15 March 2006 (CST)
: Colors should not, if possible, be specified in the wikicode or the HTML. Ideally, we should use classes to control color, so that these templates may look good across all skins for the Wiki. This might take some coordination with Joe, though. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:23, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::Didn't he send you the CSS so you could play with that? Anyway, if you can get the colors going, you're welcome to them. I can't even HARDCODE them correctly through all these layers of templates (portal->portal/boxheader->boxheader). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:36, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:::I am going to solict some outside help for this problem. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 10:00, 16 March 2006 (CST)

== TOS Cylon Pic ==
Would you like me to get a screen capture of a close-up of a TOS Centurion? I think that would look better than the DVD box cover. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:19, 17 March 2006 (CST)
: Sure. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:20, 18 March 2006 (CST)

== Limiting the universe? ==

Is this portal to be restricted to the RDM universe? As the wording curently stands, a very large chunk of this page relates only to RDM, not TOS/1980. Anything beyond the 5th sentence, in fact. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 08:06, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:No. It's unretricited to series. Right now most of the infomration I knew came from the RDM series. Once we get the "boxes" to work with the edit button I can add something about the (TOS) "Toaster" Cylons compared with the RDM Metal Cylons. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:53, 19 March 2006 (CST)

== What's Up With This? ==

So I was clicking around and seeing what was going on with this (I missed the upgrade and so didn't realize we could begin forward motion again)? This portal is listed as "done" on the project page but looks kind of jacked up to me. Should we move it, or am I missing some detail or... something? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 02:41, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:Correct. This is currently "jacked up". I think Shane dropped it down to one box to simplify the task of troubleshooting why the boxheaders/boxfooters aren't working as designed. I guess this could be safely moved to "not done". --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:15, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::The introduction text is ''really'' poorly written right now. Is the page intended to speak of ALL Cylons, or properly divide the RDM and TOS varieties? I missed the upgrade adjustments as well and so I'm trying to figure in the purpose and advantage of the portals vs their existing articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:52, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::The idea behind the portals would be not to replace an existing article, but to act as a central hub for activity and interest about specific topics. Example: [[Wikipedia:Portal:Physics]]. The person who started this Portal intended it to encompass ALL Cylons, but there's probably a lot more interest and activity related to the RDM Cylons. There was actually some pretty interesting stuff on earlier versions of this page if you dig back into the history, but there are currently technical difficulties that are keeping the portal boxes from being implemented as smoothly as the Wikipedia one (check out the code behind the wikipedia portal). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:02, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I'm not sure there really is one, particularly with as small an article space as we have compared to wikipedia. At any rate, having TOS, 1980 and RDM content mixed together doesn't strike me as very useful. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:40, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Current Human-Cylon Models Sub-Portal ==

I have been trying for a week and I still cannot get the pictures to line up on the main Cylons Portal page. When you go to edit the Current Human-Cylon Models Sub-Portal it looks fine but editing the script on the Cylons portal does nothing. Anyone else have any ideas? [[User:Nwobkwr|Nwobkwr]] 17:29, 23 May 2006 (CDT)

:Maybe it would be and look better if instead of the Agents we just put a list of everything that fits into the Cylon Category organized by what it is?

Ex: '''Cylon Vessels:'''
Raider
Basestar
Resurrection Ship
Heavy raider

I dunno, I think it would look a bit more organized... --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:59, 02 June 2006

:Maybe we could have a separate list of ships but putting them all together would be a little crowded. Anyway,-->the pictures still aren't lining up right. We may have to drop those reference tags if they're screwing up the alignment and just write than info on the bottom. Actually, I'll try that out now; if it doens't work change it back or something. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 08:13, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

::Actually, I meant without pictures (at least the majority), sort of like the simple Cylon Page, but instead of being organized by Letter organized by category. Just some thoughts, since I've found it hard to get to certain articles without searching. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 05:24, 05 June 2006

::: How about using invisible wikitables? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 06:28, 5 June 2006 (CDT)

The wikitables idea is good but it appears it is already set up that way in the sub-portal. If you're not sure what I mean click the edit button beside "Current Human-Cylon Models." When the page comes up click Portal at the top and you'll see what I mean. It also seems that the entire page needs some revamping since new items have been added since my last post. [[User:Nwobkwr|Nwobkwr]] 18:50, 9 June 2006 (CDT)

==Three known to the fleet?==
With Anders in the fleet, wouldn't they know of Number 3 now? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 19:16, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
:Yes and No. There is no on screen evidence that eh told her. I was thinking about this too and I was tempted to remove it myself. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:56, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
::Well, given that Threes were fairly visible in the occupation, I think it's safe to say they're known to the fleet. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:35, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

=="Suspected Cylon of the Week"==
I think it should be changed to [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] because of all the speculation after Exodus II. (even though I think he is NOT a cylon) - [[User:Genome4824|GMo >:M:<]] 21:16, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
:Go crazy. :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:48, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

==Number 2==
I think we should add a notes section that talks about Cavil being #2 (refer to [[Talk:Cavil#Number_Two]]). Say something like "Some fans believe [[Cavil]] is actually #2

Evidence:
* "Number Two: This is three downloads for me." that is the quote from the Captioning for Exodus Part I.
:{{neutral}} (Are we allowed to use that outside of actual votes?) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:00, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} Captioning evidence is far to flimsy. Let's be patient. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:05, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} Ditto with what Peter said, and I'd like him to be Number Two, but can't let emotions guide the reporting.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 20:08, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} Also. CC is designed to indetify which person is speaking. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:11, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} Captions are often misspelled, incorrect, and not in sync with dialogue (particularly the case with ad-libs). Stronger evidence is needed before making a determination. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:00, 29 October 2006 (CST)
::Guess we are allowed to use it outside of votes! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:15, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} As with the points above, CC is not a good source, and though I'd also be thrilled at him having a number, I'd rather it be confirmed elsewhere. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:09, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:{{oppose}} As above. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:10, 29 October 2006 (CST)

== "Human-Cylon Models of the Reimagined Series" Box Clean-Up? ==

Does anyone else think that the current layout for the Cylon Agent box is getting messy. It'd be a great template if we had more numbers, and it was fine with just Leoben, Cavil, and Simon, but now that we've gotten four more cylons, it just seems kind of silly to have all those blank heads and then the other seven down below, taking up so much room. I really like [[this template|http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Cylon_Models#Known_Models]]. Changing the one here to that one I think would work well. Another thing we could do is just reduce the spacing between the Number Unknown cylons in this template. There's no reason they need three lines. Reduce the spacing, and you can get all four of the newest ones onto a single line. If, IF, we ever get the rest of the numbers, I think this template could be great, but with so many numbers unknown, it seems cluttered to me. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 13:19, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:Right. The unknowns should be removed in the list of all 12, and all members of the Significant Seven be put there. Then the Final Five (Four) can be listed below. I don't share the obsession about their numbers anyways. There is no meaning behind them. Right now, it's just pointless duplication. I think it looks much better now. Comments? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:42, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
::It looks scattered and confusing to me right now. Can't you get it into a nice 4x3 matrix? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:59, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Only by losing the Significant Seven/Final Five distinction. I think that's at least something people would want. Maybe put all seven in one row? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:07, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
::::True. The 4-3-5 layout you've good right now is good in essentials, but the pictures are somewhat shifted, i.e. Leoben should be in the middle between Three and Five (right now he's too far to the left), Simon between Five and Six (slightly to the right atm), and Cavil between Six and Eight (almost directly underneath Eight currently). You should be able to do this with a 2x7 table (2 rows, 7 cols), putting the pictures in the odd-numbered columns in the top row, and the even-numbered columns in the bottom row. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:40, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::In the end.. though.. they will all be listed by model number.. I hope. So lets just do it.. Unk... Numbers .... Unk Numbers in 6 wide, 2 deep. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:51, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::I see what you mean. I'll see what can be done... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:13, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
::::::Erm, Shane, could you explain what you mean? Also, the number known/unknown distinction is already present. The page looks slightly better now, except that Cavil is still somewhat too far to the right, and Leoben too far to the left. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 06:27, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::::Probably an alignment issue. Theoretically they are all centered in their cells though. This table stuff confuses me somewhat. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:20, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

== Some questions ==

In the last cylon box: "The Last Cylon's true identity is only known to him- or herself." - do we know this? They could be like Boomer or the "final four".

This portal does not mention [[Raiders (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]], the [[hybrid]], or [[Hera Agathon]] and [[Nicholas Tyrol]], who are all cylons to some extent. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 08:07, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

:Fixed. Changed it to "is unknown". I also linked spacecraft in general and the basestar hybrid. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:43, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Can anyone explain what is going on with the "Final Stats" section of the Last Cylon box. Number of Suspected Cylons: 5? Where did this number come from? What does it mean? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 01:39, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Portal talk:Cylons

2007-04-12T18:19:03Z

Alpha5099:

Crossroads, Part II

2007-03-28T04:45:13Z

Alpha5099: /* Questions */ Taking out the responses

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part II
| image= 3x20-CrossroadsPartII-BaltarSixHera.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 20
| guests=
| writer= [[Mark Verheiden]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production= 320
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-03-25
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| extra= '''Season Finale - 50 Minute Episode'''
| prev= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
| next= '''TBA'''
| itunes= http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D219291495%2526id%253D200852806%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30
}}

== Overview ==
:''As Gaeta testifies against Baltar about the execution list that the accused signed on New Caprica, Roslin finds a disturbing link between her dreams and the [[Opera House]] on Kobol. Lee Adama turns around the trial with an unusual move, and several people make a disturbing discovery about themselves.''

== Summary ==

===Teaser===
*[[Admiral Adama]] shaves, cutting himself when the lights flicker.
*[[Laura Roslin]] calls, seeking a bit of humorous motivation to get out of bed and face the [[Crossroads, Part I|trial]] again, which she does not relish.
*After one feeble attempt, Adama manages "get your fat, lazy ass out of that rack, Roslin!" which makes Roslin laugh and give a heartfelt thank you. Adama tells her, "Don't let 'em see you sweat, Laura."
*[[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] are sexually engaged when she hears a strange music. When she notes it to Anders, he's surprised at the revelation, having heard it before himself.
*[[Diana Seelix]] knocks on the duty locker door and Anders opens it. An unconfortable silence between Seelix, Anders and Foster begins.
*[[Galen Tyrol]] is half-asleep, humming the music. He leaves his bed and quarters and goes to a section of ventilation to hear the music elsewhere on ''[[Galactica]]''.
*[[Lee Adama]] recommends a mistrial for [[Gaius Baltar]], using his grandfather's written advice, believing that their successes are actually worsening the issue. Baltar is incensed at the suggestion, believing that Adama wants to leave the case.
*[[Romo Lampkin]], Baltar's attorney, is inclined to agree with Adama, but young Adama's comment about his father's words about the "treacherous" Baltar leaves him to ponder.
*Baltar doesn't want to repeat the terror he's experienced in the time before the trial.
*[[Racetrack]] is training Seelix, Anders, and other [[Raptor]] [[nugget]]s, when Anders overhears Chief Tyrol humming. Together, they realize that the melody feels like something out of childhood, and they hear only a part of the melody.
*Before they can analyze further, Racetrack yells for Anders to return to the group.

===Act 1===
*Roslin takes [[diloxin]] treatment in [[sickbay]]. As she lies down and dreams, she experiences the same dream as [[Sharon Agathon]], also in sickbay with [[Hera Agathon|her daughter]], and both scream simultaneously. The two ask to talk privately.
*Later, Roslin and Sharon Agathon meet with [[Caprica-Six]], who has also experienced the dreams. When asked why Six is trying to reach Hera, she says that she felt she had to protect her "with (my) life."
*[[Saul Tigh]] tells Admiral Adama about the music. The admiral tells Tigh that he will look into it later as he leaves for court.
*The trial resumes. Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] is on the stand. The [[Precipice|execution order]] from [[New Caprica]] is admitted as evidence by [[Cassidy]], the prosecutor.
*Gaeta lies, as viewers are shown the actual events where Baltar is forced to sign at gunpoint, where Gaeta says that Baltar did not resist.
*Lampkin chooses not to cross-examine, to Baltar's great horror. The prosecution rests.

===Act 2===
*After a recess, the defense begins its case.
*Lampkin motions for a mistrial, as Baltar objects, due to prejudicial comments by Admiral Adama four days before. He asks for Mr. Lee Adama to take the stand.
*The prosecuting attorney strongly objects, but after Lampkin warns of much case law (he can think of seven examples off the top of his head) that permits such a procedure, the tribunal allows Mr. Adama to testify.
*Mr. Adama refuses to confirm his father's comments. As Lampkin tries to intimidate Mr. Adama, he restates, asking if Baltar deserves a fair trial.
*Asked why, Mr. Adama believes Baltar is not guilty, but Admiral Adama asks for the questioning to continue.
*Pressed for more clarification, Mr. Adama states that Baltar did not commit treason. He asks the tribunal what anyone else would do in that situation. He notes that all other conspirators and resistance fighters were pardoned, as were many, many other mistakes of the past, from [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Roslin]], to [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Admiral Adama]], and himself in the destruction of the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' and running from [[New Caprica]], recommending never to return with [[Pegasus (RDM)|his battlestar]].
*Mr. Adama believes that new laws are needed because they are less of a civilization now and more of a gang. He states that, unlike everyone else, Baltar is being prosecuted because of his arrogance and other considerable character flaws and is not being accorded the same forgiveness as others.
*Adama believes that the trial is built on emotions and shame from the events of New Caprica, and the shame of those that ran away. Mr. Adama looks to his father as he speaks.
*He believes that Baltar is a scapegoat for all the guilt of the people.
*The prosecuting attorney does not cross-examine, and the defense rests.
*The tribunal steps out to deliberate as Roslin steps down to congratulate Cassidy for her work.

===Act 3===
*Baltar is acquitted, 3 votes to 2 against. Yelling turns into a riot in the gallery as marines try to get Baltar to safety while the [[Fleet News Service|press]] tries to interview many players.
*Baltar is happily discussing the victory but makes a mistake in insulting Admiral Adama. Lee Adama warns him, "Don't push it, doctor."
*When Baltar asks Lampkin to aid him in a book tour and other profitable matters, Lampkin tells him that his association with Baltar is done.
*Baltar suddenly realizes that, despite his apparent freedom, he is a man without a country, without work, friends, or even quarters.
*Lampkin and Mr. Adama say their goodbyes. Lee Adama, on seeing Lampkin walking away without his cane, realizes that he had used the cane as yet another psychological tactic.
*Gaius Baltar tries to be inconspicuous as he moves files elsewhere, but all eyes are on him.
*Roslin and Admiral Adama speak in [[CIC]]. She is incensed at the verdict. Adama reminds Roslin that "not guilty" does not mean "innocent."
*Roslin assumes that Adama cast a guilty vote, when, to Roslin's shock and anger, the admiral states he voted not guilty, feeling that the prosecution did not hold their case.
*Adama tells Roslin that no one is asking anyone to forgive or forget, but they must look to the future.
*Adama orders the last jump to the [[Ionian nebula]]. The jump is successful, and Adama orders a [[DRADIS]] scan when Roslin becomes immediately dazed and stunned.
*As Admiral Adama looks to Roslin to check on her health, main power on every ship of the Fleet fails, leaving each one, including ''Galactica'', drifting dangerously close to each other.

===Act 4===
*Pilots scramble with [[flashlight]]s to their stations while CIC tries to get to auxiliary power, but battery power is the best they can muster.
*The scene shifts to a dream in the [[Opera House]] again, with Gaius Baltar holding Hera and Caprica-Six next to him. Above them, the glowing images of the [[Final Five]] appear. Caprica-Six awakens from the dream.
*Baltar tries to take advantage of the darkness and chaos when three women confront him. Frightened, Baltar is told by the women that they will take him to safety.
*The mysterious music gets louder, and Tigh, Galen Tyrol, Tory Foster and Anders begin quoting lyrics from an [[The Music|increasingly coherent melody]].
*As viewers watch, the music gets louder and more dynamic, forming a rock song. Each of the four are drawn to the gym on ''Galactica'', where they discover each other. Each are stunned and shocked.
*Tyrol believes the impossible; that all of them are [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. Each of them begin to hum the music, together, coherently, in full. Tigh angrily stops them and closes the hatches while they talk.
*Tigh states his time in service, and his history, trying to believe that none of it was in vain. Anders objects as well.
*As power is restored, DRADIS picks up a large Cylon fleet coming their way. [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] manage to scramble. [[Helo]], as acting XO, notes the mass power outage will mean that it will take at least 20 minutes for the [[FTL]] jump drives on the civilian ships to be ready. The admiral doesn't believe they have the time.
*In the closed room, Tigh states that, despite what they believe about themselves, that he is going to do his job as a Colonial officer, and heads to CIC. The others follow suit.
*The hangar deck is abuzz with activity as Chief Tyrol tries to resume his usual work.
*Lee Adama, after watching other pilots run from duty lockers to flight preparation, heads there himself to prep.
*Admiral Adama orders the preparation of the battlestar's nuclear weapons. Tigh reports on station, keeping his face stony.
*The Vipers launch. [[Helo]] is confused about the pilot of Viper 3.
*Apollo, in Viper 3, picks up a target on his [[Viper Mark VII|Viper's]] DRADIS, and tracks it down. As he looks around, an image of a [[Viper Mark II]] keeps appearing and disappearing in the clouds. The image buzzes overhead and alarms the pilot momentarily.
*Pulling alongside in her undamaged Viper, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] greets Apollo. She tells him not to "freak out," that it really is her.
*The [[Maelstrom|believed-dead]] pilot tells Apollo that she has been to [[Earth]], and that she can guide the Fleet there.
*As the music continues to play, the episode concludes as the shot pulls swiftly and violently away from Apollo and Starbuck's Viper, past the Colonial fleet, the Cylon fleet and several planets to show an arm of the galaxy.
*The shot suddenly zooms forward and through another nearby galactic arm to the familiar blue-green planet of Earth and what is known to viewers as the North American continent (in its current shape, long after the tectonic drift that split the [[w:Pangaea|Pangaea]] super-continent millions of years earlier in the planet's history).

== Questions ==
* What is the source of the music?
* Are we supposed to interpret the music as the actual Dylan song, and therefore a connection to Earth? ([[#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Is Saul Tigh the oldest humanoid Cylon model?
* Who is the twelfth Cylon?
* Did the Cylons develop humanoid models before the first [[Cylon War]]?
* Why does Number Six feel the need to protect [[Hera]] with her life?
* How are [[Laura Roslin]], [[Hera]], [[Sharon Agathon]], and [[Caprica-Six]] spiritually connected, and what is the nature of said connection?
* Assuming they choose to reveal their true natures, how will those close to the four revealed Cylons react when they learn the truth about their friends/loved ones?
* Will Colonel Tigh's hatred of the Cylons persist in light of his discovery of his Cylon nature?
* Will Cally's hatred of the Cylons persist if she discovers that her husband is a Cylon and that [[Nicholas Tyrol|her son]] is a human-Cylon hybrid?
* What is the importance of the [[Opera House]]?
* Who are the women who spirit [[Gaius Baltar]] to safety and what are their plans?
* What is the current state of [[Earth]]?
* What phenomenon causes the simultaneous power loss and equally simultaneous power restoration throughout the Fleet after jumping to the [[Ionian nebula]]? Are the pursuing Cylons also affected?
* As [[William Adama]] is the deciding vote for Baltar's 'not guilty' verdict, how will this act (and Lee Adama's testimony) affect their relationship with each other?
* How will Kara Thrace's "resurrection" from the dead be viewed by the Colonials?
* What convinces [[Laura Roslin]] to take the [[diloxin]] treatments she scoffed earlier?
* How were Kara Thrace and her Viper, unharmed and without any explicable means, able to survive the events of "[[Maelstrom]]" and transport from the "interior" of a gas planet to Earth and then to the Ionian nebula within a relatively short span of time?
* With the revelation that they are Cylons, will their allegiances to the Colonials change as they begin to accept their Cylon natures?
* If any of the [[Final Five]] were to die, would they be resurrected in a Cylon Resurrection Ship?
* Are any of their histories, such as Tigh's 40 years of service and Tyrol's memories of his parents, true?
* Does Lee Adama truly see Starbuck in a Viper or has she become an apparition, similar in nature to Baltar's internal-Six?
* Do the Final Five Cylons have the same physiology as the other seven, such as their innate immunology, the ability to interface with computer equipment via optical link, and general inability to conceive children?
* Will Roslin's appearance in future episodes change drastically because of her cancer treatments?
* Will the six other active Cylon models discover the identities of the Final Five?
* How far is the Fleet away from the Solar System?
* Did Baltar have the same dream as Caprica-Six, Athena, Hera and Roslin?
* Why did Tigh ask, "What about Ellen?"

== Analysis ==

* With the revelation that [[Galen Tyrol]] is a [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon]], the second known Human-Cylon hybrid known to exist is in the form of [[Nicholas Tyrol]]. His birth reinforces the Cylon belief that love is a necessary component to successful procreation. This would make one male and one female hybrid born to date. There may be significant biological differences between the two hybrids; one was carried to term by a human while the other was carried to term by a Cylon.
* The reason for Tyrol's discovery of the [[Temple of Five]] on the [[algae planet]] is better explained here, however it is clearly apparent that his conscious mind is unable to rationalize the reason he discovers it.
* It is also reaffirmed that none of the original seven, are aware of the final five. As demonstrated by [[Sharon Valerii]]'s lack of knowledge about Galen Tyrol's true nature during her relationship with him in [[Season 1 (2004-05)|Season 1]] and the torture of Saul Tigh on New Caprica by the Cylons.
* Saul Tigh has been known to physically exist for roughly 23 years as of this episode. While Tigh claims to have fought in the first Cylon War, aside from likely military documentation about his service in the war, there are no supporting non-Cylon witnesses to support his claim. This predates the two-year marker previously indicated by two known infiltrators, [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii]].
* The final scene of the episode depicts Earth, notably the North America content, definitively indicating the existence of this planet.
* As described by Tyrol when the four meet, the music and the Fleet's arrival to the nebula set off a switch within the minds of the four Cylons. However, unlike Boomer, their Cylon natures did not come with a different set of memories of personality.
* All four new Cylons all hold very important or potentially important roles within the Fleet. Tigh is the right hand man for Adama. Foster is the right hand woman for Roslin. Tyrol is the chief in charge of all military maintenance and repairs on the Vipers and Raptors. Anders is a new pilot amongst the soldiers of the Fleet.
* According to Lampkin, Joseph Adama was a brilliant defense attorney, but not an honest man. This may allude to one of the reasons why Lampkin despised Joseph Adama, but explains Lampkin's tactics as he also respected Joseph as a mentor.
* Lee Adama finally realizes the full extent of how he was manipulated once he sees Lampkin walk off on his own with no cane. Lampkin's ruse was successful in putting a wedge between the Adamas to allow Baltar to be pronounced not guilty.
* Another tendency for the younger Adama is that when faced with the option of completely severing and opposing his father, he will relent and attempt to return to his father's good graces. This has been seen when Lee Adama was given the chance to denounce his father to the Fleet during the military coup, but eventually told Zarek that he couldn't.
* Ironically, it was Roslin who originally wanted Lee Adama to lead a panel to determine who is fit to be on the tribunal. Her reasons being that she believed Lee Adama has a sense of right and wrong that others don't have at that time. Her belief about Lee comes back to haunt her as he rightly pointed out that her broad forgiveness policy for all within the Fleet after the second Exodus should be applied to Baltar as well. Her fear and knowledge of Baltar's involvement with the genocide of the Colonies has clouded her judgment to extend her original act of grace to Baltar.
* Lampkin, apparently was telling the truth that all he had wanted was to have the glory of being the attorney for the most hated man of the Fleet. Once his job is accomplished, he cleans his hands of Baltar, and makes it clear that besides the trial, he does not want to be associated with Baltar.
* The events in the Opera House apparently take place much further in the future of the show as Baltar is clean shaven as he stands next to Caprica-Six.
* Starbuck's last words in the episode allude back to "[[Maelstrom]]" as she is taking on the role of the [[Aurora, Goddess of the Dawn|Aurora]] idol that she gave to Adama before her "death". She claims that, like the idol placed on the model ship, she will be leading the way to Earth.

== Notes ==
* Four of the so-called "[[Final Five]]" are revealed to be [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]], [[Saul Tigh]], and [[Tory Foster]].
* Lee Adama points out a string of incidents throughout the series that would have resulted in serious consequences under normal circumstances, but where the persons involved weren't punished: his destruction of the ''Olympic Carrier'' ([[33]]), William Adama's coup against Roslin, Lee putting a weapon to Colonel Tigh's head and supporting a munity ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]), Helo and Chief Tyrol killing Lt. [[Thorne]] ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]), Tigh's use of suicide bombers on New Caprica ([[Occupation]]), people supporting the Cylons on New Caprica ([[Collaborators]]).

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''[[Saul Tigh]], [[Tory Foster]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] decide what to do now they know they're Cylons:''
: '''[[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]]''': (over the intercom) Inbound Cylon Fleet. I repeat. Action stations, action stations. Set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill.
: '''Tory Foster''': My Gods, what are we going do?
: '''Saul Tigh''': The ship is under attack, we do our jobs. Report to your stations.
: '''Galen Tyrol''': Report to Stations?
: '''Saul Tigh''': My name is Saul Tigh, I am an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be. And if I die today, that's the man I'll be.
* ''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] pulls alongside [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] in her undamaged Viper:''
: '''Starbuck''': Hi, Lee.
: '''Apollo''': (his eyes widen in disbelief) Kara?
: '''Starbuck''': Dont freak out, it really is me (laughs). It's going to be okay. I've been to Earth. I know where it is. And I'm going to take us there.

== Official Statements ==

* ''[[Jamie Bamber]] discusses the finale:''
: It is a different finale in the sense that the previous ones have been about fragmenting the characters and spreading them all over different parts of space, and this one, everyone is really on board ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. Every major character is on ''Galactica'', and the stuff going on down on ''Galactica'' is where the drama is.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7BAC4FC1D4-115F-457C-8E4A-01A539D77D39%7D|title=''Galactica'''s Jamie Bamber Visits a Heavenly ''Ghost''|date=2007-02-23|accessdate=2007-02-23|last=Cohn|first=Angel|format=|language=}}</ref>
* ''SciFi.com Forums Admin discusses the running time:''
: The Sunday, March 25, season finale of ''Battlestar Galactica'' will run five minutes longer than usual. If you plan on recording the episode, set your DVR or VCR to continue for five to 10 minutes after the end of the hour so you do not miss anything.<ref>{{cite_news|first=|last=|url=http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2266869|title=BSG Season Finale on March 25 will run 5 minutes overtime|publisher=|page=|date=2007-03-07|accessdate=2007-03-08|language=English}}</ref>
* Bear McCreary discusses the use of the [[w:Bob Dylan|Bob Dylan]] song:
: ''I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source.''<ref>Bear McCreary's blog, {{cite_web|url=http://www.bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm|title="Crossroads, Pt. II"|date=2007-03-25|accessdate=2007-03-27}}</ref>
*RDM has confirmed in [http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm this] interview that Tyrol, Tigh, Tory, and Anders are indeed Cylons and members of the Final Five.

== Guest Stars ==

*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as [[Dr. Cottle]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Chelah Horsdal]] as [[Cassidy]]
*[[Katee Sackhoff]] as [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Jen Halley]] as [[Diana Seelix]]
*[[Brad Dryborough]] as [[Hoshi]]
*[[Alison Matthews]] as [[Karen Fallbrook|Fallbrook]]
*[[Susan Hogan]] as [[Doyle Franks]]
*[[Stephen Holmes]] as Reporter #2
*[[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as [[Young Woman]]
*[[William Samples]] as Judge #2
*[[Lily Duong-Walton]] as [[Hera Agathon]] (uncredited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques

2007-03-22T22:39:33Z

Alpha5099:

{{project|Official Communique's|image=BSG WIKI Official CrewCast.png|shortcut=BW:OC}}

Members of '''''Battlestar Wiki''''': This page is to coordinate all questions to any official members of the cast or crew of "[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]." Please sign your question after you are done. The "summary" of the question should be be first, if any, and then the questions, in short form, should be placed at the bottom. This is to not confuse people and to keep the questions distinctive.

Cast/Crew: These are questions we are seeking answers to. If you have the time, please answer them as best you can. We will move these questions/answers to the correct page once they have been done. You can also check out ''[[:md:Category:Seeking Official Information|Category:Seeking Official Information]]'' for larger items - particularly pictures.

All questions which have been previously answered can be found on the archive pages. Questions get moved to the archives once items and questions stemming from the issue have stopped.

<div align="center">
{| class="toc plainlinks" summary="Notice"
|-
| [[Image:BSG WIKI Caution.png]]
| [[Bradley Thompson]] is very busy. It might be a while before he answers questions.
|}
</div>

{{ArchiveTOC}}

{{Newsection link}}

__TOC__

== Question on a recurring extra ==

In early Season One, there was a large Asian pilot with tattoos that appeared at a card game. As far as I remember, he disappeared after that. Then he reappeared during the partying scenes in Scar. And now he's back in a major way in Season Three, appearing in most scenes involving lots of pilots. Personally, I'm a huge fan of the man, and was wondering if there's any actual information on him. Does he have a name? And will he ever get a line? Thanks for your time. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 13:51, 6 December 2006 (CST)
:Good question. Lots of pictures can be found in [http://z15.invisionfree.com/Galactica_B_S/index.php?showtopic=431 this Galactica BS thread].--[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 18:02, 6 December 2006 (CST)
::I created an article about him: [[Tattooed pilot]]. When (if) Brad gives us his actual name, we can move it.[[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 06:09, 22 December 2006 (CST)
:::He's getting the reputation of being BSG's counterpart to [[w:Morn|Morn from ''Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'']]. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:38, 5 January 2007 (CST)
::::Now we know the name of the extra: [[Leo Li Chiang]]. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 20:17, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Maybe its like a running joke, that he's been in it since the beginning but still doesnt have a name? :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:47, 2 March 2007 (CST)

::::::If we give him a name, you won't have the fun of trying to guess what it is. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 19:01, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

:::::::But... But... if he doesn't have a name then there's nothing to guess! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:22, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

== Props to David Weddle and Bradley Thompson ==

This last episode, "[[Maelstrom]]" is some of the best storytelling I have ever seen! Give your selfs a pay-rasie and a '''high-five'''! [[Cylon Shooter]]s on me. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:24, 5 March 2007 (CST)
:A good episode indeed, although it can never beat the immortal "[[Rapture]]" ;) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 08:49, 6 March 2007 (CST)

::Thanks for liking them both! - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 18:59, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
:::You guys do downright amazing work. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:05, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

== Harvey Frand ==

What is this guy's job exactly? He doesn't seem to be directly involved in the creative side of the show. Is he more of an administrative producer? Making sure the logistics work, sets are built, actors hired, etc. I'm not saying that that's not important, just curious :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:20, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

::Without Harvey Frand, Galactica would not be nearly as spectacular as it is. He keeps everything on time and on budget, makes sure the scripts can be done with the resources available, finds the most efficient way to allot those resources -- and when something is necessary to make the story work -- yet is financially impossible to do, he finds a way. Harvey is the man who literally makes the show happen in the real world, which calls for tremendous creativity and risk-taking. He's the guy on Maelstrom who pointed out that we had an eight page day to shoot on location in Socrata's apartment -- and a location day can make at best six pages. It was impossible to do, even with overtime, given what we'd accomplished in seasons previous.

::As David Weddle was trying to cut those scenes down to something we could shoot, he realized that doing so would gut their emotional impact. He brought this to the attention of Michael Nankin, who agreed - we needed all eight pages. We went to Harvey with the problem and swore that everything would go right, that the guest star would know her lines, that Michael could cut some corners on coverage to be able to make the day. If anything fell apart (camera failure, safety issue, botched lines... anything like that and we'd be hosed. We couldn't stay late. (You can't keep the trucks on the street after a certain hour in that section of Vancouver or you're busted, fined and can never shoot there again.) Not only that, but the rest of the schedule would be thrown out of whack and it wouldn't just be these critical scenes that would be unfinished... would there be budget left to do the spectacular end of the season? Or even the humungous dogfight at the end of Maelstrom? Harvey had a tough call to make.

::Harvey rolled the hard six. And Dorothy had her lines down cold. And Katee was perfect. Nothing broke. And we got out of there with less than seconds to spare.

::That's just one of the calls Harvey has to make every day. He's frakking awesome. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 18:52, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

:::Thanks for that detailed explanation. That's sort of what I assumed. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:20, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

== Billing and Contracts ==

The Son Also Rises rose some questions about how billing works on Galactica. With the exception of Katee Sackhoff's departure, the main credits have remained constant, while the secondary credits for Guest Stars has been more more fluid. However, there've been some constants. Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, and Tahmoh Penikett were always the top dogs of the non-main cast, and, with the exception of the rare episode where one of their characters didn't appear, they always appeared in that order.

However, things seem to be changing. Ever since Cally became a prominent character in Season Two, Nicki Clyne has been slowly rising in the ranks of the Guest Stars. At first, she was just getting away with supplanting Alessandro Juliano and Kandyse McClure, but now she has actually broken into the top three, as she was credited before Penikett in the last episode.

I was wondering, what determines billing? I assume it's contractual, as Michael Hogan is always top billed, even in the few episodes he doesn't have any lines. So has Clyne negotiated a new contract that puts her higher in the credits?

Also, I noticed that Sebastian Spense cracked the Guest Stars in The Son Also Rises. Not to speak ill of Narcho, but why has he gotten up to the front of the episode? Did he get a better contract? What makes someone only worthy of getting their credit at the end of the episode? Is Brody Olmos less able to commit to a contract, and that's why he hasn't cracked the Guest Stars?

Sorry I've asked so much. Really, I just want to know how people get their names in the secondary credits, and why certain reliable, long time characters are stuck at the end of the episode. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 15:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

::That's a really good question and I don't have an answer. It is indeed contractual and that's all handled by business affairs, who tend to be a tight-lipped bunch, and rightly so. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 18:22, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

==Maelstrom Viper Mark VII==
[[Image:Viper Mk VII Maelstrom.JPG|thumb]]
In the excellent fighter scenes in the episode [[Maelstrom]], Apollo consistantly flies a different version of the Mk VII Viper than we've seen before. I was wondering if some light could be shed on what it was, since the changes were fairly substantial, such as one of the "home-made" Vipers from Pegasus, a modified regular Mk VII, or just a retro-active design change? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:Or is it the Viper Mk VIII? :) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 05:49, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

::Galactica's ships are in a constant state of change. The arms race with the Cylons and shortage of parts and resources means Tyrol's knuckledraggers are constantly making improvements and jury-rigging around lacks. (At one point there were talks about making tylium tanks out of paper to extend the fighter ranges, but the idea was dropped when paper was declared a strategic material.) - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 18:19, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
:::...and when people were eating it during the food shortage ^_^ --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 05:06, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

== Intro, survivor count for Crossroads, Part I ==

The latest episode, "[[Crossroads, Part I]]", did not have an intro movie (time constraints?), nor did it show a survivor count. I personally don't care much about the intro movie (since we get back actual episode content), but there are a lot of die-hard fans here eager to know the survivor count. What was the count for Crossroads, Part I? Is Part II going to have an intro and a survivor count? Have you abolished the intro movie altogether? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:15, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

== Number of Season Four episodes ==

I realize this was only just announced, and you may not know or be able to comment, but there seems to be confusion over what exactly the 22 episode season order entails. Alongside this announcement, there is confirmation of the made for TV movie, which Sci-Fi is describing as "a special two-hour extended episode." The thing that people are unsure of is whether the movie counts toward the 22 episode count. Will the movie count as two episodes, and then Season Four proper will be the standard 20 episode? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 17:39, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Michael Taylor

2007-03-20T22:02:54Z

Alpha5099:

{{Crew Data
| image=
| role=Writer
| series=[[RDM]]
| dob=
| nationality=
| death=
| imdb=0852899
}}

'''Michael Taylor''' is a TV writer best known for his work on two series in the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek|Star Trek]]'' franchise, ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine|Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]]'' and ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: Voyager|Star Trek: Voyager]]''. His DS9 credits include acclaimed episode "[[MemoryAlpha:The Visitor|The Visitor]]", as well as "[[MemoryAlpha:In the Pale Moonlight|In the Pale Moonlight]]", which was controversial for challenging some of ''Star Trek'''s utopian ideas.

Taylor also worked as a producer and writer on the USA Channel series ''[[w:The Dead Zone|The Dead Zone]]''. In 2002, Michael Taylor was nominated for a Nebula Award, which is given by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, for writing a Dead Zone episode entitled "Unreasonable Doubt." <ref> [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0852899/ IMDB] </ref>

He joined the writing staff of BSG to work on Season 3.<ref> [http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=5333 The Great Link] </ref>

== Writer credits for "Battlestar Galactica" ==

*Season 3:
**[[Unfinished Business]]
**[[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]
**[[Crossroads, Part I]]

''See also: [[:Category:Episodes written by Michael Taylor|Episodes written by Michael Taylor]]''

== External Links ==
{{ext-ma|article=Michael Taylor}}

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes|Taylor, Michael]]
[[Category:Crew|Taylor, Michael]]
[[Category:Writers|Taylor, Michael]]
[[Category:RDM|Taylor, Michael]]
[[Category: Former Star Trek Cast and Crew|Taylor, Michael]]
[[Category:Producers|Taylor, Michael]]

Crossroads, Part I

2007-03-20T18:42:26Z

Alpha5099:

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part I
| image= 3x19-CrossroadsPartI-TrialJudges.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 19
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Taylor]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production= 319
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-04-18
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[The Son Also Rises]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Baltar's trial commences, with the prosecution presenting evidence of treason committed on New Caprica amid controversial testimonies from Colonel Tigh and President Roslin.''

== Summary ==
===Teaser===
*[[Laura Roslin]], significantly different in dress and hairstyle, is walking through what appears to be the [[Opera House]]. She searches for and finds little [[Hera Agathon]] walking through the hallways, unable to reach her.
*Also following Hera is her mother [[Sharon Agathon]], who does not appear pleased to see Roslin in pursuit.
*Neither Roslin or Agathon retrieve the child; a [[Number Six]] in white clothing grabs the child as Roslin wakes up.
*The [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] is en route to the [[Ionian nebula]], but it is still several days away.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] is trying to tune into [[Talk Wireless]] or music in [[Joe's bar]]. [[Brendan Costanza]], [[Diana Seelix]] and [[Samuel Anders]] are playing [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]]. Anders notes Tigh's attempts to find the music.
*[[Tory Foster]] speaks with [[Cassidy]], the prosecuting attorney in [[Gaius Baltar]]'s trial. Foster's assertion that [[Epiphanies|Roslin witnessed Baltar and a Six on Caprica]] doesn't convince Cassidy need for hard evidence.
*Meanwhile, in the brig, Baltar is visited by a member of the press, who wants to give him something. He refuses until she forces it onto him.
*The [[Virtual beings|virtual Six]] appears to console the emotionally tortured Baltar.

===Act 1===
*[[Racetrack]] and [[Skulls]] are conducting reconnaissance to see if any Cylons are following the Fleet's jumps. Her [[Raptor]] hides behind an asteroid as they play [[Triad (RDM)|cards]] and wait.
*The trial begins. Cassidy asks the courtroom how loss is measured.
*She notes the number of people who settled on New Caprica, the number who was escaped in the [[Second Exodus]] and the number lost: 5,197 left behind, killed or otherwise missing.
*The attorney claims that the trust put in Baltar was gravely misplaced, and that the ultimate price must be paid.
*[[Romo Lampkin]], Baltar's attorney, immediately asks to change the plea to guilty as a ploy to use reverse psychology to claim that the power of [[w:Mob rule|mob rule]] is trying to sway opinion in the court.
*Lampkin claims that President Roslin is seeking vengeance on Baltar for [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|her lost election]], and claims that the [[New Caprica]]ns were victims of a hopeless battle. Baltar's decision to surrender to the Cylons had saved lives, he claims, versus what Lampkin claims Roslin would have done -- stand and fight.
*Back on Racetrack's Raptor, five [[Basestar (RDM)|baseships]] suddenly appear and attack. Racetrack's [[FTL]] drive barely comes online in time to allow them to escape an incoming missile.
*Back on ''[[Galactica]]'', in [[CIC]], Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] orders a scan for any [[Cylon transponder|tracking devices]] that may have been left on Fleet ships during the New Caprica siege. At the same time [[Tory Foster]] hands Roslin a cup and a thermos can. Roslin insists on asking the incarcerated [[Caprica-Six]] for information. When Tigh objects, Roslin snaps back, uncharacteristically.
*[[Lee Adama]] enters CIC near Roslin, who is collecting herself in the Weapons Control station. He notices Roslin's cup, which she left on the table, and smells it, detecting something unexpected.
*Caprica-Six is questioned. She suggests that the fuel ship is being tracked by a unique radiation signature emitted by the ship. The [[Virtual beings|virtual Baltar]] appears and convinces her not to cooperate further. Caprica Six retaliates to Tigh's interrogation by recalling [[Ellen Tigh]], inciting Tigh to strike her, and Six to strike back before [[marine]]s intervene and shackle the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]].

===Act 2===
*In court, Tigh is questioned, and asked if Baltar appeared to help the [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance]] in any way. Tigh is noticeably drunk. When questioned about Ellen, Tigh acknowledges her involvement but becomes more withdrawn.
*Lampkin cross-examines about the [[NCP]] [[Precipice|initiation bombing]] and how the resistance attempted to target Baltar. Lampkin continues to question about Ellen Tigh's [[Exodus, Part I|collaboration]] by asking Colonel Tigh if his wife was a collaborator, muddying the differences between Ellen Tigh and Baltar. Lampkin points out that Tigh appears drunk. Matters turn to the worst when Tigh begins to hear the music.
*Tigh is asked the nature of Ellen's death, and Tigh resolutely answers, claiming that Baltar's inaction made him kill his wife. He reflects a portion of his wife's [[Exodus, Part II|last words]] to tell how he would do anything to have Baltar killed. Tigh begins to show increasingly signs of anger as the music in his head continues to increase in volume.
*In Joe's Bar, Anders turns a eye to strange noises from the bar's public wireless and shares a look with Foster.
*Under testimony, Roslin notes the execution of 200 people under Cylon tyranny.
*Lampkin attempts to get Lee Adama to give some insight about Roslin's testimony and Roslin herself, instead of being a passive observer who is simply satisfied in embittering his father.
*Lampkin attempts to play to on Lee Adama's sense of justice by putting him between two difficult decisions. One being the betrayal of Roslin and his father, or putting his words about justice into action by sharing the personal information with Lampkin.

===Act 3===
*Admiral Adama drags the drunken Tigh to his quarters. The Fleet is nine jumps away from the nebula, and repairs are being made to the fuel ship to keep it from being tracked.
*Tigh says that he can't "smell her anymore" and apologizes for his actions in court. Adama replies that, as his [[Scattered|oldest friend]], he could never embarrass him.
*In the admiral's quarters, Major Adama suggests the idea of sending the fuel ship on a different course to throw off the Cylons temporarily, and the admiral coldly takes it under advisement.
*The two Adamas verbally spar. Admiral Adama angrily accuses his son of helping Lampkin by telling him about what Tigh did to Ellen.
*In response, Major Adama resigns from military duty, while his father accepts the resignation in anger.
*The mood is tense in court when, instead of Lampkin, Lee Adama asks to address the court.
*Lee Adama (in civilian dress) questions President Roslin, but asks if it was Baltar that [[Epiphanies|saved her from cancer]]. When Admiral Adama objects, Lampkin asks for hostile witness latitude, which is given.
*Roslin tells how the cancer was cured. When asked what medications she was currently taking, she says "I don't remember." Asked specifically about [[chamalla]] use, and if she has had hallucinations recently, Roslin counters in the affirmative but notes how it [[Home, Part II|provided the first clues to Earth]] as well as noting Lee Adama's own involvement.
*Before Lee Adama asks his next question, Roslin whispers to him: "Don't do this." He then asks if she was taking chamalla again.
*Admiral Adama tries to overrule the line of questioning but other tribunal judges overrule him, forcing Roslin to answer. She recalls [[Miniseries, Night 1|her fondness for Lee Adama's early leadership]], how calling him "Captain Apollo" way back then had a nice ring to it, but how sad she was at how his behavior has changed.
*Adama notes that chamalla can be sweetened to mask its bitter taste, recalling the cup of tea that Tory gave Roslin at ''Galactica'''s CIC, which gave him the clue to her use of the drug.
*Roslin confirms that she is taking chamalla again. She then challenges counselor Adama to finished what he had started with his last question. When he asks her why was taking the drug again, she tells the court that she is taking the drug again because her cancer has returned.

===Act 4===
*[[Anastasia Dualla]] packs her bags and leaves her husband in disgust over his questioning of Roslin and his usage of the justice system she believes should be dismantled and rebuilt to make it work again.
*On ''[[Colonial One]]'', reporters pepper President Roslin about her cancer, how it will be treated, and if she planned on using Hera Agathon's blood again. The line of questioning infuriates Foster, but Roslin asks her to leave the press conference. When [[Karen Fallbrook]] asks how long the President has to live, an unflinching Roslin repeats the same question at the reporter, leaving Fallbrook speechless.
*After the press conference, Roslin angrily criticizes her aide, complaining that Foster is off her game. Foster claims that she hasn't been sleeping well.
*In his quarters, the drunken Tigh still hears the mysterious music and tries to track its source.
*[[Helo]] arrives in CIC as interim [[Executive officer]] and finds Lt. [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]], who briefs him. The [[tylium]] fuel ship decoy plan is nearing completion, but there are no further reports of Cylon forces. Three jumps from the nebula.
*Helo remembers a certain smell in the air when trouble was brewing, recalling the weather on Caprica. He believes "something over the horizon" is coming, something that doesn't bode well for the Fleet. "A storm is coming," he says.
*The music that Tigh, Anders, and Foster are hearing appears to be coming from the ship itself.

===Bonus Scene===

* Asking Lampkin, Adama asks about the guiltiness of Baltar, but Lampkin plays to Adama's justice about how all of them are guilty.

== Questions ==

* Did Tigh continue drinking all the time, or did he stop for a while after he seemingly pulled himself together again?

* Is there a budding romance developing between Anders and Seelix?

* Why are Tigh, Anders, and Foster apparently the only ones who can hear the ever increasing music?

* Does Foster actually hear the music?

* What is the mysterious music and where is it coming from?

* Is Roslin back on using chamalla extract because of prescription from Cottle or is she attempting to receive visions of the future again?

* Did Athena or Caprica-Six receive the same dream that Roslin found herself in during the teaser of the episode?

* Would Athena and Helo be willing to donate some of Hera's blood to save Roslin from her cancer?

* Would Hera's blood have any effect on the cancer now since the cancer apparently has resisted Hera's innate immunology?

* With Helo temporarily assigned as XO, who has replaced him as CAG?

* Is Helo temporarily holding down both posts?

* Why did Roslin look so different in her dream?

* Will Baltar be cross-examined?

* Where is Zarek in the midst of the trial proceedings?

* How is Caprica's virtual Baltar aware of the details of Saul and Ellen Tigh's relationship and Ellen's death?

== Analysis ==

* [[Samuel Anders]] wears a uniform with rank insignia and hangs around with Seelix and Costanza. Together with being addressed as "you [[nugget]]s", this indicates that he joined the pilot training program.
* The Cylons have apparently been tracking the fleet since the destruction of the Temple of Five. Their strategy was to delay jumping into any system that the Fleet has been until after six plus hours to ensure that the Fleet would not realize that they were being tracked.
* Adama's military experience comes into play again when he orders that the decoy Raptor stay for a total of 12 hours. This is reminiscent of his previous strategies such as the decision to attack the Cylon tylium factory in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." When he changes the regular pattern and stays longer than the Cylons had expected, he finally caught them in the act.
* Lee Adama immediately displays signs of fear once Roslin challenges him to "finished what you(he) started" after asking her if she is taking chamalla again. This indicates that either he suspected that Roslin's cancer has returned or he was beginning to feel that his actions are treacherous.
* Helo's comment to Gaeta about a "'storm is coming'" highlights Adama's comment to him at the end of "[[The Woman King]]", specifically to how Helo has been many times the voice in the wilderness. His ability to sense or remember certain details hails back to the final scene in "[[Rapture]]" when he remembers that Thrace had painted the picture of the mandala. It's also similar to his wife predicting that "Something dark is coming" in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]".
* Lampkin's opening statement is another prime example of his rhetorical skill. He uses reverse psychology to goad the mob to respond and eventually lead one man in the audience to state his desire to see Baltar die. This display of emotion played in Lampkin's favor as it would make the judges wary of giving into the mob mentality. Secondly, he cleverly paints Roslin as a fanatic by proposing that had Roslin been president when the Cylons invaded New Caprica, the entire human race would have been exterminated. However, as [[Precipice|Zarek has stated to Roslin]], if she had been President, the settlement and eventual invasion of New Caprica would have never taken place.
* It appears the closer the Fleet is to the nebula, Tigh, Anders, and Foster hear the music increasingly, even to the point of exhaustion.
* There is a growing movement in the Fleet that believes Baltar has some sort of healing or divine abilities. His internal-Six doesn't allow him to brush off these devoted followers aside, indicating that his belief about himself that he is the "Chosen One" is coming true.
* Lee Adama's actions towards his father and Roslin have led to another impasse between himself and Dualla. Lee Adama has come to a point where he has been alienated from his father, from Roslin, and his wife, in an attempt to gain some sort of respect from Lampkin and to act in accordance with his noble conceptions of justice by following in his grandfather's footsteps.
* Lee Adama's words to the pilots in "[[A Day in the Life]]" come back to haunt Racetrack when the Cylons jump on top of her Raptor right after the end of a card game. The ship's systems apparently had been powered down as Racetrack can't even maneuver or evade the missile to give the FTL drive a few more moments to spin up.

== Notes ==

*The episode has one of the most sparse musical score yet. The only major pieces are during Roslin's dream at the beginning and the music Tigh keeps hearing. According to a [http://bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm blog entry] by composer [[Bear McCreary]], director [[Michael Rymer]] and the editors decided not to use any music during the court room part, in order to let the scenes speak for themselves.
*It's the first episode without an intro sequence, thus increasing the effective running time a little bit. Because of that, no updated [[Survivor Count]] is available.
*The bitterness of chamalla and that it can be sweetened to make it taste better, is first mentioned by the oracle [[Dodona Selloi]] in "[[Exodus, Part I]]".
*One of the shots of others listening to the trial on the [[wireless]] shows the [[refinery ship]] from "[[Dirty Hands]]".
*A storm is often used as a metaphor for a battle, conflict, or massive upheaval in science fiction. Helo's final line in this episode is almost an exact duplicate of the ending of the movie ''[[w:The Terminator|The Terminator]]'', and a huge storm (a sandstorm) takes place during the climax of the novel ''[[w:Dune (novel)|Dune]]''.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Notes from the podcast:

* The opening teaser is indeed set in the Kobol Opera House that has been seen numerous times. This particular scene in the teaser was a late addition as the director and producers wanted to create a foreboding atmosphere to the episode. This was influenced by the fact that the studio executives were not favorable to the idea of ending the season with Baltar's trial.

* RDM goes more into the original trial storyline that involved the Saggitarons and Baltar. In summary, during their time on New Caprica, the food supply had been contaminated and a famine had fallen on most of the colonists, except the Saggitarons, who had been very careful with their harvests and supplies. This alienation between the Saggitarons and the rest of the colonies came to a collision when Baltar was attempting to have the Saggitaron leadership share their food with the other colonists. Unfortunately, Baltar is forced to kill one of the leaders, and thus began the riots and slaughter directed towards the Saggitarons. This killing was to be eventually revealed that it was a necessity instead of an act of genocide.

* Another component of the original storyline was to have Lee Adama be Baltar's only attorney and Lee's morals come into play when he obtains a video recording of Baltar actually shooting the Saggitaron leader. The cliff hanger of the episode was suppose to leave the audience wondering what will Lee do now that he believes Baltar is guilty.

* Over time, RDM and the director agreed that this storyline involved too many plot elements that the audience had never witnessed about Baltar. Once the decision was made, RDM completely revised the whole trial and rewrote the episodes.

* RDM hints that Athena and Roslin did indeed see each other during the dream sequence. A deleted scene had Roslin in the the restroom attempting to cool her head down while Athena comes out from one of the stalls. They looked at each other briefly in a silent acknowledgment that they did see each other in the dream.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]
*[[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as Young Woman
*[[Chelah Horsdal]] as [[Cassidy]]
*[[Susan Hogan]] as [[Franks]]
*[[William Samples]] as Judge Number Two

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques

2007-03-13T20:46:59Z

Alpha5099:

{{project|Official Communique's|image=BSG WIKI Official CrewCast.png|shortcut=BW:OC}}

Members of '''''Battlestar Wiki''''': This page is to coordinate all questions to any official members of the cast or crew of "[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]." Please sign your question after you are done. The "summary" of the question should be be first, if any, and then the questions, in short form, should be placed at the bottom. This is to not confuse people and to keep the questions distinctive.

Cast/Crew: These are questions we are seeking answers to. If you have the time, please answer them as best you can. We will move these questions/answers to the correct page once they have been done. You can also check out ''[[:md:Category:Seeking Official Information|Category:Seeking Official Information]]'' for larger items - particularly pictures.

All questions which have been previously answered can be found on the archive pages. Questions get moved to the archives once items and questions stemming from the issue have stopped.

<div align="center">
{| class="toc plainlinks" summary="Notice"
|-
| [[Image:BSG WIKI Caution.png]]
| [[Bradley Thompson]] is very busy. It might be a while before he answers questions.
|}
</div>

{{ArchiveTOC}}

{{Newsection link}}

__TOC__

== Question on a recurring extra ==

In early Season One, there was a large Asian pilot with tattoos that appeared at a card game. As far as I remember, he disappeared after that. Then he reappeared during the partying scenes in Scar. And now he's back in a major way in Season Three, appearing in most scenes involving lots of pilots. Personally, I'm a huge fan of the man, and was wondering if there's any actual information on him. Does he have a name? And will he ever get a line? Thanks for your time. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 13:51, 6 December 2006 (CST)
:Good question. Lots of pictures can be found in [http://z15.invisionfree.com/Galactica_B_S/index.php?showtopic=431 this Galactica BS thread].--[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 18:02, 6 December 2006 (CST)
::I created an article about him: [[Tattooed pilot]]. When (if) Brad gives us his actual name, we can move it.[[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 06:09, 22 December 2006 (CST)
:::He's getting the reputation of being BSG's counterpart to [[w:Morn|Morn from ''Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'']]. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:38, 5 January 2007 (CST)
::::Now we know the name of the extra: [[Leo Li Chiang]]. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 20:17, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Maybe its like a running joke, that he's been in it since the beginning but still doesnt have a name? :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:47, 2 March 2007 (CST)

==Boxed Cylon Storage Room==
Hello, Mr. Thompson

[[Image:Chamber.jpg|thumb|Cylon Homeworld?]]

At the end of "Rapture" we see Cavils boxing Threes inside a large chamber, where they presumably leave the bodies after they're done boxing them. I am wondering, where is this room? Is it aboard each Resurrection Ship or is it in the Cylon Home World?

Originally, I thought it was in the Resurrection Ship, but the ship itself isn't that big, and it would make sense for the Cylons to pack up all the bodies and send them back to the homeworld, keeping the Three's in a buffer until they download them over there and box them. So now I'm wondering, is it in the Homeworld?

Thank you for your time --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:02, 13 February 2007 (CST)

::This scene took place aboard the local resurrection ship. No doubt similar scenes happened wherever there were D'Anna's to box. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 21:07, 1 March 2007 (CST)
:::Thank You! --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 07:07, 2 March 2007 (CST)

==Spelling of [[Ferdok root]]==
The Saggitarons use this root as a calmative for the sick but how is it spelt? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:37, 14 February 2007 (CST)

:Mr. Angeli's script has it spelled "burdock root" - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 21:09, 1 March 2007 (CST)
::Thankyou for the clarification. Moved to [[burdock root]]. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:07, 2 March 2007 (CST)

Furdock root? The script may say burdock root, I am rather sure that I heard furdock root spoken by Aaron Douglass in the episode.

Burdock root, also called "Gobo", is a traditional Japanese and Chinese medicine for purification of blood and liver. Eating alot of it can cause one to break out in a sweat while sitting still. There seems to be furdock root in the RDM- a parallel to burdock root in our own? Clever.

maximilian333

:... Dude did you just try to contradict Bradley freakin' Thompson, one of the show's producers?! I am speechless. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 22:33, 7 March 2007 (CST)

: Ha Ha ... No. You say botato.... I say fotato... I can see why my strong belief seems audacious, but I am rather certain of what I heard. The original article poster heard "Ferdock", as I did. Mr. Thompson graciously clarified that "Burdock" was actually written in the script. I take no issue with that, but with what I myself heard. The suggestion that Furdock may have been spoken on the set in no way contradicts Mr. Thompson's factual statement that "Burdock" was written in the script. I merely suggest that the script and the spoken dialogue on the set differ. This is not uncommon as issues are worked out on a set. Maybe this could have been done purposely to work around the plausability of two distant planets sharing the same fauna. Such a parallel would suggest some mysterious, ancient link to earth. Similarly, the colonies themselves are roughly similar to the names of the Zodiacs. This is the kind of attention to detail that deepens the production and enthralls us as fans. Perhaps Peter Farago or Aaron Douglass (Chief Tyrol|Galen Tyrol) will be inclined to clarify minutae like this for the rabid, discerning fanbase. We shouldn't care about this frakkin root, but as fanatics, we can't help it, can we? {{unsigned|Maximilian333}}

: Just a thought, but [[User:Peter Farago|Peter]] would be the one to go to in order to determine what was said on screen, since he has that know-how. If it is mispronounced on screen, I imagine we could note that, but keep the article under its current, confirmed spelling. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 08:11, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::Huh. Sadgeezer's transcript of the episode says "burdock", for whatever that's worth. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:18, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::I'll run a spectrogram if you guys insist, but it seems pointless in light of Thompson's comment. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:39, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

== Chief Tyrol & his 'Knuckledragger Crew', Will we see more? ==

The Dirty Hands episode was fantastic as it gave us a glimpse into the heart and soul of the crew/workers that have dedicated their lives to securing a future for all the survivors in the fleet. It was interesting to see an episode introducing some of the new faces involved in the 'Dirty Work'. It was very well written and acted and a pleasure to watch. Can we look forward to seeing more of Chief Tyrol and his main crew of 'Knuckledraggers' - Figurski, Pollux and Redford?

--[[User:Chillishake|Chillishake]] 14:08, 27 February 2007 (CST)

:I'll pass your compliments to Jane and Anne. We've been wanting to see life in the fleet for a long time and we finally got to do it. We'll certainly see more of Tyrol and Figurski. I seem to remember Ep 16 introducing SP2 Sarah Ryan to the hangar deck (christened at the last minute and I'm not sure her name will reach the screen as I've given it here). How much? Depends upon the order for Season 4, which has been given a "go" but the number of episodes has yet to be determined. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 21:15, 1 March 2007 (CST)
::SP2 = Specialist 2nd class? Could you tell us what the rank structure for the enlisted crew is? According to some, admittedly, old blog entry by RDM it goes somewhat different and we pieced it together [[Military Ranks (RDM)|here]]. And what is Figurski's rank/rating?
::I expected to focus "Dirty Hands" to focus more on the deckhands, but it was great to get a look at a civilian ship too. And the guy with the prosthetic arm was a nice touch. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:46, 2 March 2007 (CST)

== Props to David Weddle and Bradley Thompson ==

This last episode, "[[Maelstrom]]" is some of the best storytelling I have ever seen! Give your selfs a pay-rasie and a '''high-five'''! [[Cylon Shooter]]s on me. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:24, 5 March 2007 (CST)
:A good episode indeed, although it can never beat the immortal "[[Rapture]]" ;) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 08:49, 6 March 2007 (CST)

== Harvey Frand ==

What is this guy's job exactly? He doesn't seem to be directly involved in the creative side of the show. Is he more of an administrative producer? Making sure the logistics work, sets are built, actors hired, etc. I'm not saying that that's not important, just curious :) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:20, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

== Billing and Contracts ==

The Son Also Rises rose some questions about how billing works on Galactica. With the exception of Katee Sackhoff's departure, the main credits have remained constant, while the secondary credits for Guest Stars has been more more fluid. However, there've been some constants. Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, and Tahmoh Penikett were always the top dogs of the non-main cast, and, with the exception of the rare episode where one of their characters didn't appear, they always appeared in that order.

However, things seem to be changing. Ever since Cally became a prominent character in Season Two, Nicki Clyne has been slowly rising in the ranks of the Guest Stars. At first, she was just getting away with supplanting Alessandro Juliano and Kandyse McClure, but now she has actually broken into the top three, as she was credited before Penikett in the last episode.

I was wondering, what determines billing? I assume it's contractual, as Michael Hogan is always top billed, even in the few episodes he doesn't have any lines. So has Clyne negotiated a new contract that puts her higher in the credits?

Also, I noticed that Sebastian Spense cracked the Guest Stars in The Son Also Rises. Not to speak ill of Narcho, but why has he gotten up to the front of the episode? Did he get a better contract? What makes someone only worthy of getting their credit at the end of the episode? Is Brody Olmos less able to commit to a contract, and that's why he hasn't cracked the Guest Stars?

Sorry I've asked so much. Really, I just want to know how people get their names in the secondary credits, and why certain reliable, long time characters are stuck at the end of the episode. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 15:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

A Day in the Life

2007-02-21T15:39:57Z

Alpha5099: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= A Day in the Life
| image= 3x15-AdamaAndWife-cropped.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 15
| guests=
| writer= [[Mark Verheiden]]
| story=
| director= [[Rod Hardy]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-02-18
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,398
| prev= [[The Woman King]]
| next= [[Dirty Hands]]
| itunes=http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D215973768%2526id%253D200852806%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[William Adama|Adama]] faces the memory of his late wife and their marriage as he marks his wedding anniversary. Meanwhile Cally and Galen Tyrol are trapped in a depressurizing airlock with no way to leave it, and President Roslin is pushing ahead with Baltar's trial.

== Summary ==
===Teaser===
*[[Galen Tyrol]], looking haggard, is carrying a baby bottle to his small, but private accommodations for his wife, [[Cally Tyrol]] and their infant son, [[Nicholas Tyrol]].
*The Tyrols are beginning their day. While Cally was expecting a day off, Galen tells her of needed maintenance on an [[airlock]] that cannot wait. Cally is frustrated by Galen's insistance that she assist him instead of enlisting others from the deck crew.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] dreams of his late wife, [[Carolanne Adama]], at a home on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. When his quarter's intercom awakens him, Adama's grogginess shows him rising from his bunk, and Carolanne's image appears, asleep, in the bunk as well.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] enters with papers to sign for needed maintenance on the ship. The XO notices the empty bunk and is quite aware that today is Adama's wedding anniversary with his wife.
*Private [[Stewart Jaffee|Jaffee]] arrives to drop off the admiral's coffee, and Adama, deep in thought with memories of his ex-wife, is unable to remember the crewman's name.
*Chief Tyrol arrives in a crew head to talk through the work schedules with his deck crew. He tells [[Seelix]] to join the Tyrols at airlock 12, an airlock located on the port aft side of ''[[Galactica|Galactica's]]'' "alligator head".
*The Tyrols enter the airlock; equipment and pallets are strewn about, and the observation deck has been unused for over a year. A previous [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon attack]] had left this airlock unusable, and minor hull breeches here had been temporarily patched and left for a later repair.
*The Tyrols were to fix the gearing systems of the airlock's doors. As Cally tries to get Galen to discuss their marital problems, specifically Galen's desire to handle workloads as usual despite their marriage, a klaxon activates and the inner airlock doors quickly close. Seelix is confused; she didn't initiate the airlock close. She notifies the Chief of a pressure differential in the compartment; a leak has developed.
*Galen Tyrol, despite Cally's surprise, isn't fazed; he knows that the airlock closure is an automatic safety mechanism. He instructs his wife to search for the leak, knowing that the doors will open once the leak is again patched.

===Act 1===
*Adama envisions himself at his home on Caprica as Carolanne's image asks him if he is going to continue repeating events to exercise his memory.
*Carolanne's image accuses him of using his position to exalt himself and President [[Laura Roslin]].
*Roslin and Adama meet for a quick briefing. She admits that it could have been over [[wireless]] but she had to get off of [[Colonial One|her ship]]. Adama explains her mood as being "O.B.E." - overcome by events.
*Roslin suggests that [[Lee Adama]] lead the process in organizing the necessary resources for [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar's]] trial, noting Lee's [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|past with just causes]] against the ''status quo'' as well as the Adama family history in [[Joseph Adama|law]]. Admiral Adama agrees to ask Lee about the matter.
*Roslin asks to stay aboard ''[[Galactica]]'' and tells Adama that she is going to the gym. Adama smiles and mentions something about the smell, to which Roslin laughs heartily.
*Pilots conduct their [[CAP]] briefing in their [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]], chatting between themselves with some satisfaction that the Cylons haven't been seen for 49 days.
*[[Helo]] handshakes [[Hot Dog]], who complains about a strange rash as he scratches near his genitals. Helo smiles and, implying the questionable worthiness of a probable illicit (and inadvisable) sexual union by Hot Dog, wipes his hands on the armrests and moves a seat away from the scratching pilot. As Major [[Lee Adama]] steps up to begin his briefing, one [[Tattooed pilot|last pilot]] takes the seat next to Helo.
*Major Adama begins his pilot briefing, berating the pilots' celebration. He tells the pilots that the number "1" is all they need to remember, reminding them that it takes only 1 slip-up to begin a major disaster for the Fleet. Admiral Adama is outside of the ready room, and stands quietly and out of eyesight to anyone as he listens, with a faint level of pride appearing on his face, to his son's stern lecture.
*Carolanne's image tells Adama to express his love for Lee as how a father would to his son, not as an Admiral to a Captain.
*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] sticks around for a few seconds after the pilots are dismissed to tease Major Adama about mimicking his father's ultimatum command style. The younger Adama replies that if he has to copy, it should be from the best. Admiral Adama enters the room as Starbuck leaves for her duties.
*Admiral Adama asks his son to head the legal organization processes for Baltar's trial. Major Adama is flattered and will consider the idea. He tells his father that, as a child looking through his grandfather's office and the various books strewn about, he considered a profession as a lawyer amongst his many other career considerations, something that his father never knew. The major notes that his [[CAG]] duties are 24/7 as it is, even with the Cylon down time.
*The Tyrols' patching of the breach appears to work initially, but when the pressure test is done, the new patches fail. The leak worsens greatly.

===Act 2===
*Admiral Adama has been alerted about the worsening airlock emergency with the Tyrols in airlock 12 and makes his way there with Colonel Tigh and their [[marines|marine]] escort in tow. He assesses the damage personally and later consults with his command staff in [[CIC]]. There is approximately 30 minutes of air in the lock, and the temperature is dropping considerably as frost begins to form inside the airlock.
*Major Adama notes extensive damage in the airlock that has damaged the redundancies that could manually open the door, leaving no way to open it. Tigh suggests blowing the glass in the airlock's observation deck, but Major Adama warns that the reinforced glass is designed to handle a [[tylium]] explosion, and that a detonation sufficient to blow the glass would kill the Tyrols as well. Admiral Adama is angered by the lack of options and demands more thought.
*The pilots prep for an extraordinary rescue attempt; to blow the external door, where the Tyrols, exposed to vacuum, will have to leap into [[Sharon Agathon|Athena's]] [[Raptor]]. Admiral Adama briefs the Tyrols on the plan shortly after the two don emergency breathing gear.
*After retrieving the Tyrols, it will take seven seconds to close the Raptor's external door and another 10 seconds to re-pressurize the rescue vessel.
*Cally is visibly upset after hearing the plan. The Chief asks if a docking collar will be used, to which Adama states in the negative; there is not enough time. The Tyrols try to prep the area so that the evacuation of the airlock will not pummel them or their rescue ship with flying pallets or other equipment.
*Cally Tyrol worries who will take care of their [[Nicholas Tyrol|son]] if things go wrong. Galen suggests that [[Anastasia Dualla]] and her husband would be suitable foster parents, but Cally knows of a reputation throughout the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] of how orphaned children fare there. Fearing that pilots (with their hazardous life) would leave Nicky orphaned a second time, she asks Admiral Adama to give their son to [[Susan Deckler]], a civilian mother with one daughter.

===Act 3===
*The Raptor is in position, with Athena as pilot and Apollo and [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] inside, ready to catch the two. Apollo warns everyone of shrapnel and other turbulence that will affect the mission.
*Galen Tyrol apologizes to his wife for being selfish in asking her to join him in the repair. The order was his way of wanting to have her companionship. He instructs her to hold tight as they prepare to leave the airlock.
*Admiral Adama orders the door blown. The Tyrols are flung from the airlock and the Raptor manages to fend off debris from the door, catch the entwined Tyrols, then re-pressurize. Apollo notes the Tyrols are in rough shape but alive.
*Later, Admiral and Major Adama talk about Carolanne, who haunts the elder Adama's memory, accusing him of never being there, able to lead men but not his own family.
*Lee Adama tells his father that, after their divorce, Carolanne made many promises that she didn't keep, particularly once she took to drinking. Over time, she wouldn't apologize for her neglect in fulfilling the promises. The young Adama believes that, despite his love of his mother, he did not believe that she truly loved his father.

===Act 4===
*Seelix arrives in [[sickbay]] with baby Tyrol in her arms after retrieving him from day care. Galen Tyrol is in a bunk, resting, but exerts himself to stand and hold his son. He tells Seelix that Cally will be fine, although Dr. [[Cottle]] notes it will be some time before she is up to full strength. He slowly walks to Cally, who is recuperating inside a hyperbaric chamber to treat the effects of vacuum exposure.
*Cally Tyrol awakens to glimpse at her family. Her eyes show distress from the vacuum and she is too weak to smile, but holds her hand to the interior window. Galen presses his son's hand to the glass; Admiral Adama is nearby and has watched the entire event.
*Major Adama returns to his quarters to find his wife resting. She points to a box that his father had shipped to his quarters; the young Adama facetiously asks if the box is ticking. On inspecting it, he finds a library of Caprican criminal law books, the same ones he looked at from his grandfather's collection. The admiral leaves a note for his son.
*Admiral Adama completes yet another meeting with Laura Roslin. Adama steers the conversation back to New Caprica, specifically, their time together during then-President Baltar's [[Unfinished Business|groundbreaking ceremony and party]]. Roslin admits to [[New Caprican loco weed|feeling a little silly]] that evening.
*Adama fondly recalls her red dress and the good feelings each had that day. When Roslin laughs, Adama tells her how happy it is to see her do so. He asks her, if the Cylons hadn't attacked, if she would have built that cabin in the woods that she wanted.
*Roslin temporarily evades the question by answering that Baltar's inept leadership and New Caprica's terrain would have prevented such a building, but is pleased by Adama's attention. She asks if he would have stayed on ''Galactica'' or eventually settled himself, to which Adama evades an answer by stating that their questions were all hypothetical in any case.
*Adama, with a smile, states that the two of them have specific duties, apparently attempting to return a professional distance to what was becoming a very intimate conversation. Roslin replies, with another smile, to the affirmative.
*As she begins to leave, she tells Adama that, in a few days, she'll return to the battlestar, where they can return to their conversation and reminisce of their brief time on New Caprica and its possibilities. As she steps away, she tells Adama that she would have definitely built her cabin if time and circumstance would have allowed.
*Adama returns to his quarters, holding his wedding picture. He returns it to its storage until next year.

===Bonus Scene===
*The complete bonus scene (which was available on the [http://www.scifi.com Sci Fi Channel web site for U.S. viewers after the episode]) takes place just before Colonel Tigh visits Admiral Adama's quarters at the start of the episode.
*Lieutenants [[Felix Gaeta]] and Anastasia Dualla walk towards Adama's quarters for signatures of maintenance orders as part of their daily briefing. As he makes some notes on the orders, Gaeta volunteers the observation that President Roslin and Adama have had many meetings together recently.
*When Dualla asks what he's implying, Gaeta suggests that there might be something more intimate going on between the senior Fleet leadership. Dualla grimaces at the possibility, replying that the idea of Roslin and Adama together in her head was not a particularly desirable one to imagine.
*When the two think deeply and briefly of the two commanders together, both begin to laugh, and continue to do so when Colonel Tigh intercepts them and asks what was so funny.
*The two formally note their briefing, but Tigh takes the folder to deliver himself and dismisses the two back to CIC. Dualla and Gaeta's composure fails as they turn to CIC and begin laughing uncontrollably as Tigh heads to his friend's quarters, which connects to the original scene of his arrival.

== Questions ==
* Since it is not connected to the larger port [[flight pod]] and its [[hangar deck]], what would airlock 12 normally be used for?
* Was Carolanne Adama's only wife? Was she the same wife whose father had the connections that allowed Adama to be re-enlisted into the fleet?
* Will the potential romance between Roslin and Adama be consummated or left as a "what could have been" scenario?
* How many different types of court and law codes are there within the Colonies? Is there not a unified "Federal" equivalent set of laws that could be used for Baltar's trial?
* Will Lee take on the position offered by Roslin?
* Is Helo no longer in charge of taking care of living arrangements for "Dogville"?
* Will ''Galactica'' ever be able to fight up to the capacity as she did during the [[Battle of New Caprica]]?
* Is there any greater significance to [[Brendan Constanza|Hotdog's]] rash?

== Analysis ==

* The argument referenced in "[[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]" between the Tyrols focuses on how Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] acts as is nothing has changed since marrying [[Cally Tyrol|Cally]], particularly as he ignores his family's needs over the needs of his job. Cally, on the other hand, is concerned about [[Nicholas Tyrol|Nicky]], and has apparently gone to great lengths to think about his future, notably when Cally asks Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] to give Nicky to a civilian family whom she knows.
* There was much patchwork done to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' after the [[Battle of New Caprica]]. Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] notes that ''Galactica'' would need six weeks in dry dock "just for the dents", making it sound likely that ''Galactica'' would not survive another battle like New Caprica.
* The cinematic flashbacks or imaginary melding of Adama's memories of Carolanne, including recollections or imaginings of sitting with her and touching her, and what he believed she would say in the various situations of the day were curiously similar to how [[Gaius Baltar]] imagines his [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|virtual Number Six]]. However, Adama's likelihood of being a [[Humanoid Cylon speculation|Cylon]] are practically refuted by the existence of his memories (as well as two characters, Lee Adama and Saul Tigh, who also share in the same memories).
* Through his internal conversations / arguments with Carolanne, it appears Adama has regrets with his decision to marry her. The regret has become a nagging question and buffer on his ability to make decisions and to not question them.
* Carolanne appears to have been an undiagnosed/untreated bipolar schizophrenic and an alcoholic. Once divorced and left raising her two sons, she fell into heavy drinking and was clinically depressed for several years, apparently with bouts of anger/violence.
* Dealing with Carolanne's personality defects most likely gave the Admiral insights into dealing with Colonel Tigh's alcoholism.

== Notes ==
* "A Day in the Life" is also [[w:A Day in the Life|the title of a song]] by [[w:The Beatles|The Beatles]]. It is not known whether this has any particular meaning to the episode.

* There are two births that occurred between "[[The Woman King]]" and "A Day in the Life", as the population count after "The Woman King" was 41,396.

* A day care center exists on ''Galactica''.

* [[Number Six]] ([[Tricia Helfer]]) and [[Gaius Baltar]] ([[James Callis]]) do not appear in any scene in this episode.

* The set used for the airlock - in particular the observation booth - is the same as for the [[Launch tube (RDM)|launch tubes]].

* In reality, humans have been exposed to near-vacuum conditions for up to thirty seconds without permanent injury. Some sources state that survival is possible for up to two minutes, but the injury the body sustains becomes severe after approximately one minute of exposure. The biggest danger is damage to the lungs, as the sudden pressure differential can burst the avioli. That is why a person should exhale and not hold their breath.

* When Apollo uses his watch to time the hatch on Athena's Raptor, it makes a beep in the manner of a digital stopwatch. However, the watch in question, inherited from [[Barry Garner]] in "[[The Captain's Hand]]", is an analog device.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Information from the podcast:

* Carolanne's name was originally Caroline. RDM and the other editors in the podcast note that the change occurred when Olmos used the name Carolanne instead of Caroline. Ever since, Adama's wife has been called Carolanne by the staff.

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Lucinda Jenney]] as [[Carolanne Adama]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Sebastian Spence]] as Lt. [[Noel Allison|Noel "Narcho" Allison]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as Lt. [[Anastasia Dualla]]
* [[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally Tyrol]]
* [[Jen Halley]] as Specialist [[Seelix]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hotdog" Constanza]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Capt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Leo Li Chiang]] as [[Tattooed pilot]]
* [[Don Thompson]] as [[Anthony Figurski]]
* [[Finn Devit]] as [[Nicholas Tyrol]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Rod Hardy]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Template talk:Characters

2007-02-11T08:02:15Z

Alpha5099:

== Formatting and Defining Characters in Template ==

Thanks to [[User:Undc23|Undc23]], we have a character template that makes it easier to navigate to characters. There's probably some that choose to adjust the formatting; I've already put my 2 cents in and quickly reached my wiki coding limits. I recommend that contributors compare the format to the template used in Wikipedia for [[Wikipedia:Template:matrix|The Matrix saga entries]] listed there.

We also need to determine two additional points:

* What characters should appear in this list. I feel that characters who have been in at least 3 episodes qualify, but if they are dead for longer than 2 seasons, the entry could be removed unless their contribution to the overall storyline is significant. [[Crashdown]], for instance, may deserve retention here because his death is a critical juncture for [[Gaius Baltar]]. [[Hadrian]] and [[Wallace Gray]], at present, aren't really characters of depth. I haven't removed or added any characters due to my wiki code skill limits, so look over the template and consider my thoughts and share your own.

* The [[TOS|Original Series]] character lists would benefit greatly from a similar template, probably similarly named as [[template:toscharacters]]. Although the series ran for just a season (and 1/2, counting the dreaded ''[[Galactica 1980]]''), the "planet of the week" and "alien of the week" formatting generated dozens of characters. Maybe Undc23 will step to the plate for this, or someone else.

--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:11, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:I agree. The TOS could probably use something like this. I'm not sure whether it would be better to follow this example (main characters only) or the matrix one (to organize all the secondary/minor characters as well). I'd be afraid of having an excessive amount of minor characters cluttering it up, but perhaps one season wouldn't be that bad. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:09, 28 December 2005 (EST)

I don't like this at all. I think it looks ugly on the Matrix pages on Wiki, and is redundant with our Characters category. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:59, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:Is there any way to organize the Characters category? Maybe a category-subcategory relationship? The character category pages by themselves are difficult to read (in terms of determining which characters are major and going to have a big writeup, vs. minor characters). Having character subcategories might be able to render an easier to navigate category page without adding clutter to each of the characters that falls in the subcategory. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:22, 28 December 2005 (EST)

::Yes, I've been meaning to give some thought to revising the categories here for some time. [[Battlestar Wiki:Categories|Let's get to work]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:00, 28 December 2005 (EST)

::: I'm torn. Last night I was trying to figure out the name of the ''Pegasus's'' XO so I could see if there was a good picture of him, but I couldn't find him. I didn't go hunting through the Category, however. Something like this would help with that (or just cross-linking him in Cain or ''Pegasus's'' articles), but I agree with Peter that it doesn't look wonderful, and deciding who should be on it and all... updating it... Seems like a lot of hassle. I like the idea of subcatagories in the Characters one, maybe so one for ''Galactica'' personell (include Lee and Kara because, really, they're from ''Galactica''), ''Pegasus'' personell and the Civillians. --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:04, 28 December 2005 (EST)

Spencerian, I agree some characters place on the list is dubious, but I figured others would edit that anyway so go for it. Farago and Day, I don't think it's redundant, as you can browse characters more quickly. If you've noticed, there is a virtually identical template at the bottom of episode pages despite there being an episode category, and this template seems to have been accepted. As for aesthetics, well thats personal opinion, I like it :)--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 19:49, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:It certainly does point to a deficiency in the category system. I am continuing to mull on it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:53, 28 December 2005 (EST)

=== Idea #1? ===

Been thinking about this for some time as well... Just that nothing's come to me that I've particularly liked. So I'm going to share with all of you the one idea that's been stabbing the grey matter in my mind.

Here's how the whole Category:Characters thing should work, using Category:Characters (RDM) as a baseline...

: [[:Category:Characters (RDM)]] (first level categories, followed by the following categories that would be second level...)
:: [[:Category:Minor Characters (RDM)]]
:: [[:Category:Recurring Characters (RDM)]] (i.e. Ellen Tigh)
:: [[:Category:Major Characters (RDM)]] (The two Adamas, Roslin, et al.)

Did we want to get specific with characters that were Cylons? If so, then we could add:

:: [[:Category:Humano-Cylon Characters (RDM)]]

Also, how specific did we want to go with the Character categories? Did we want to have a category for civilians, military, and government? Do we want to have categories for Galactica crew vs. Pegasus crew as well? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:35, 31 December 2005 (EST)

:We've been tossing ideas for this around on [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Categories]]. There are some problems to be dealt with, but I'm working on a sketch to run by people. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:36, 31 December 2005 (EST)

== A dissenting view ==

I love this template because it's a lot easier to cross-navigate than the category. It's also a good at-first-glance look at who all is there. Although here's an idea--why don't we subdivide it so that we can have a template for, say, the Galactica enlisted that may or may not be re-integrated into the master template? (It may also be useful to devise a smaller template for the characters played by the actors billed in the opening credits--Adama, Roslin, Lee, Kara, Baltar, Boomer, and Six--but that may lead to problems.) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:08, 31 December 2005 (EST)

:I think the template is getting a little out of hand, but then again BSG is unusual in having so many significant characters who aren't part of the main regular cast. But we're verging on making a huge mess at the bottome of many character pages; meanwhile I don't want some people assuming these are the ONLY characters. I don't know what to do. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:07, 2 January 2006 (EST)

::I also worry that the template will over-power those characters who have very short write-ups and who, for whatever, reason, will probably never have a longer write-up. I mean--what more is there to say about good ol' [[Raymond Lai|Raygun]]? Yet the template is longer than his article. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:51, 2 January 2006 (EST)

:::I still want it removed. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:50, 2 January 2006 (EST)

== Standardization Required ==

We need to define the use of this template in Standards and Conventions if the majority wants it to stay. Right now, recent additions for one-shot characters unlikely to be seen again anytime soon unneccessarily fill the template and it is growing ridiculously large. I recommend that:

* The character template is used ONLY with characters that play a critical role (in life or death) in the MAJOR plot or MAJOR character's development of the series, AND
* Appears in ''no fewer'' than two episodes or a story arc

I propose the two points are mutually inclusive: BOTH must be met for a character to fit in the template. A character that reoccurs but isn't a major story-driving character (such as [[Laird]]) doesn't fit the bill, while a recurring character that sparks the course of a major character (such as [[Elosha]]) are worthy.

That said, [[Helena Cain]] and [[Crashdown]] are also good examples of ones to keep in the template. Cain darkly changes the dynamics of the Fleet (and adds a battlestar to it). Crashdown set in motion a darker change in [[Gaius Baltar]] when Baltar shoots him. [[Socinus]] was in both the "[[Litmus]]" and Kobol story arcs with a significant purpose. While [[Jack Fisk]] isn't a significant character in itself, he's part of the Resurrection Ship mutual assassination story arc. [[Thorne]] isn't a biggie, but his death led to that standoff between Adama and Cain. But [[Prosna]], [[Hadrian]], [[Mason]], [[Phelan]], [[Shevon]], [[Wallace Gray]] (among others) are not suitable for long-term retention in the template as they don't fit the two points. There are other ways to find these and other minor characters without cluttering up every article; besides, this is a wiki, so things are linked by design and easy to find with a search term. We have years of ''Battlestar'' in store, so we have to keep things trimmed in anticipation and to keep the purpose of the wiki true.

To make this simple, let's keep debate short and sweet--one comment with one dissent. Please avoid conversation threads, and get your point right the first time. If we don't get consensus on the format, we can put it to a vote in a few days. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 3 February 2006 (EST)

===Discussion===
Hadrian was a recurring character in season 1, and should stay. Thorne, however, only appeared in "Pegasus", and doesn't appear to meet your requirements. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:11, 3 February 2006 (EST)
:On the other hand, I'll remember Thorne longer than I'll remember Hadrian. If the template gets too big, we can trim it over time. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:29, 3 February 2006 (EST)
::It's already too big. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 18:41, 3 February 2006 (EST)
: I agree; I think Hadrian should stay and Thorne should be dropped. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 18:55, 3 February 2006 (EST)
:: Thorne was not a major character, anyway. He was more of a plot device. (Not a [[Cami]], but maybe more of a [[Wallace Gray]]... well, somewhat.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)
:::He saved my life, as well as the lives of fifty other men, you miserable frak! Thorne was more than a plot device! Erm, I mean....I respectfully disagree :) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)

== Trim ==

I just trimmed it down a little. Thoughts? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:48, 3 February 2006 (EST)
: I would remove Laird and Thorne. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:17, 3 February 2006 (EST)
::It does look better, too. Thanks, Phil. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:45, 3 February 2006 (EST)
::Maybe later, but as of now, Laird and Thorne aren't making the template any bigger, they're just making it less empty. Removing them would make no difference with respect to size, their notability notwithstanding. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:05, 3 February 2006 (EST)

== Liposuction... stat! ==

I was mulling over what to do about this template size and came across the page on [[Wikipedia:Cosmo Kramer|Cosmo Kramer]]. Interestingly enough, if one looks at the bottom they see the character box containing the major characters of ''Seinfeld''. We could do the same thing to the major characters of ''Galactica'', although we may have to tailor it to suit our needs. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 00:06, 11 February 2006 (EST)

:How do we decide who to include beyond the seven main characters? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:31, 11 February 2006 (EST)

::Number of episodes they're in, compared with relative importance to storyline. I would include Tyrol and Cally, for example. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 01:13, 11 February 2006 (EST)

:::How about the seven top-billed characters, "special guests", and every minor character who has appeared in as many or more episodes as the least of those seven, in a given season? That list would look something like this:
::::Main cast (seasons 1 & 2)
:::*William Adama
:::*Laura Roslin
:::*Lee Adama
:::*Kara Thrace (did not appear in "Fragged", "Black Market")
:::*Sharon Valerii (did not appear in "Resistance", "Fragged", "Black Market")
:::*Gaius Baltar
:::*Number Six (did not appear in "Flight of the Phoenix")

::::Season 1 guest characters (must have appeared in all 13 episodes):
:::*Saul Tigh (appeared in all episodes of season 1)
:::*Billy Keikeya (appeared in all episodes of season 1)
:::*Cally (appeared in all episodes of season 1)
:::*Galen Tyrol (appeared in all episodes of season 1)
:::*Karl Agathon (appeared in all episodes of season 1)

::::Season 1 special guests:
:::*Tom Zarek (Bastille Day, Colonial Day)

::::Season 2 guest characters (must have appeared in 12 episodes of 15 thus far, matching Valerii's record)
:::*Saul Tigh (appeared in all episodes of season 2 through "Scar")
:::*Galen Tyrol (did not appear in "Home, Part I" or "Black Market")
:::*Karl Agathon (did not appear in "Fragged" or "Black Market")
:::*Felix Geata (did not appear in "Epiphanies", "Black Market", or "Scar")

::::Season 2 special guests:
:::*D'Anna Biers (Final Cut)
:::*Admiral Helena Cain ("Pegasus", "Resurrection Ship, Part I", "Resurrection Ship, Part II")
:::*Tom Zarek (Black Market)
:::*Phelan (Black Market)

:::This seems to capture the cast makeup and "important characters" fairly well, without resorting to subjective interpretation. Thoughts? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:18, 11 February 2006 (EST)

Thorne appeared in a single episode and does not deserve a place in this box as a result. Meanwhile, Racetrack needs to be added back to it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:10, 11 February 2006 (EST)
:Why Racetrack? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 05:11, 11 February 2006 (EST)

::A)I have a certain fondness for Racetrack, because like Helo, she was only supposed to be in one episode, but was so good they brought her back as a recurring character B) she has appeared in many episodes in season 2 subsequently.

To my personal breakdown, on a by the numbers basis(note: some characters appear in many episodes, like Gaeta, but might not even talk, so numbers aren't ''necessarily'' reflective of importance):
Of the "Main Cast":
*William Adama
*Laura Roslin
*Lee Adama
*Kara Thrace--did not appear in "Fragged", "Black Market"
*Sharon Valerii--did not appear in "Resistance", "Fragged", "Black Market"
*Gaius Baltar--did not appear in "Scar", "Sacrifice"
*Number Six--did not appear in "Flight of the Phoenix"

This would move us along to the "recurring characters":
*Saul Tigh--appeared in all episodes
*Billy Keikeya--in most through "Home Part II", but lately just fell into the backround
*Cally--has appeared in 18 episodes (through "Sacrifice")
*Galen Tyrol--did not appear in "Home, Part I", "Black Market", "Sacrifice"
*Karl Agathon--did not appear in "Fragged", "Black Market", "Sacrifice"

Getting tired. Have to cut this short. Point is, Racetrack has been in quite a few and become a relatively important recurring character, as opposed to like Thorne...who was in one episode. --!!:::*William Adama
:::*Laura Roslin
:::*Lee Adama
:::*Kara Thrace (did not appear in "Fragged", "Black Market")
:::*Sharon Valerii (did not appear in "Resistance", "Fragged", "Black Market")
:::*Gaius Baltar
:::*Number Six (did not appear in "Flight of the Phoenix")

::::Season 1 guest characters (must have appeared in all 13 episodes):
:::*Saul Tigh (appeared in all episodes of season 1)
:::*Billy Keikeya (appeared in all episodes of season 1)
:::*Cally (appeared in all episodes of season 1)
:::*Galen Tyrol (appeared in all episodes of season 1)
:::*Karl Agathon (appeared in all episodes of season 1)--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:00, 11 February 2006 (EST)

Merv, wouldn't you do me the courtesy of replying to my post before you appropriate its content for your own? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:49, 11 February 2006 (EST)

:Actually, this list was made from my own searchings through the character pages. But I digress. Big point is that if we are trimming, we really should remove "alistair Thorne"; he was in exactly ONE episode, and really doesn't seem fitting here.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 18:07, 14 February 2006 (EST)

::You blatantly copy and pasted portions of my post into yours. I find it mildly insulting, and I'd rather you didn't do it again as a matter of personal courtesy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:11, 14 February 2006 (EST)

== i wouldn't bother with the Number Eight, Number Three stuff ==

I noticed that Sharon and Doral seem to have "disappeared" in light of their new number designations. May I be so bold as to say that most people know them by their "human" names? Therefore I've decided to change the Cylon portion of the template back to their "human" names, instead of their numeric designations. Anyone else have anything to say on this matter? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:07, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:Template:Characters delenda est. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:00, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I went ahead and did a compromise so it says Number Eight (Sharon Valerii). If this takes up too much room then we should do a piped link so the template acts properly in terms of going unlinked on the page it's on. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:23, 25 February 2006 (EST)

== Deceased ==

I did a roll-back, but didn't realize it would auto-comment for me. The reson I did it is because that's not a note for Simon. That's a key to all the other little crosses we've got going. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:08, 2 March 2006 (CST)

==One Year Later: Now What?==
Well, we have an obvious problem now - practically none of the characters are still in the positions noted here as of the end of Season 2. We could reshuffle it to reflect their lives on New Caprica, as so:

 
<center>
{| id="toc" style="margin: 0 2em 0 2em;"
|-
| align="center" |'''[[:Category:Characters|Characters]] in ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]'''''
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Fleet (''Galactica''):''' [[William Adama]] | [[Karl Agathon]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Fleet (''Pegasus''):''' [[Lee Adama]] | [[Anastasia Dualla]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Fleet (Retired):''' [[Kara Thrace]] | [[Saul Tigh]] | [[Galen Tyrol]] | [[Cally]] | [[Cottle]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Fleet (Whereabouts Unknown):''' [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]] | [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]] | [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Fleet (Deceased):''' [[Socinus]] | [[Crashdown|"Crashdown"]] | [[Helena Cain]] | [[Jack Fisk]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Government:''' [[Gaius Baltar]] | [[Felix Gaeta]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Government (Retired):''' [[Laura Roslin]] | [[Tory Foster]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Government (Whereabouts Unknown):''' [[Tom Zarek]] | [[Sarah Porter]] | [[Marshall Bagot]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Government (Deceased):''' [[Elosha]] | [[Billy Keikeya]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Press:''' [[James McManus]] | [[Playa Palacios]] | [[Sekou Hamilton]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Civilians:''' [[Ellen Tigh]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Cylons:''' [[Caprica-Six]] | [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii (''Galactica'' Copy)]] | [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]] | [[D'anna Biers]]
|-
| style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Cylons (Deceased):''' [[Gina]] | [[Cavil|Cavil (Fleet copy)]] | [[Cavil|Cavil (Caprica copy)]]
|-
|}
</center>

but in addition to being about five times uglier than what we have now (which I would not have imagined possible), it would hardly be useful for anyone reading about the previous 32 & 2/3 episodes.

Although I'm loathe to say this without having anything better in mind (and I do recognize the navigation convenience that this template offers), I'm going to have to reiterate my point that this template is simply more trouble than it's worth, and should be deleted outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:07, 14 March 2006 (CST)

:: It could be uglier, Peter. We could use flashing text and maybe a marquee or however it's spelled. However, I agree. Kill it. Kill it! KIIIIIILLLLL IIIIIIIT!! --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:25, 14 March 2006 (CST)

:: http://www.math.lsu.edu/~jude/tmp/killit.html (Note, there are 4 copies of the text in that page. Try it in multiple browsers for the full 1996 website effect.) Actually, that's not a vote. I'm conflicted on it, but the lack of a valid organizational scheme is a mark against its continuation. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:07, 14 March 2006 (CST)

:::I think it really needs to be a much simpler list. Main Characters, supporting characters, guest stars. That way all the moving of positions and locations won't have any effect on it. [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 12:35, 14 March 2006 (CST)

I've implemented Joe McCullough's idea. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:55, 17 March 2006 (CST)

----

For all but 30 minutes of the BSG corpus, the template is fine. My suggestion is a rather *sane* one if you ask me--keep it the same, wait until October, remove whatever characters have mysteriously disappeared since then (Jammer, Hotdog, and Kat are my predictions), and then adjust it as we go. My prediction is that Roslin, Starbuck, Tyrol, and Tigh (among others) will end up in a "New Caprica Resistance" category, and so forth. Quite honestly, I think that the above is a bad-faith attempt at making this template look worse than it needs to. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 11:47, 14 March 2006 (CST)

I've just added more notations indicating status as of LDYB, but I wouldn't object if anyone removed them for being ugly. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 12:10, 14 March 2006 (CST)

: I really hate to say this (and hate to hurt anyone's feelings, particularly Philwelch's), but the template needs to go. I don't feel that the above point was a "bad-faith" attempt, but rather points out an obvious flaw in the template.
: In fact, right now, [[User:Shane|Shane]] and a few others working on a portal idea. Characters will have their own portal, and a portal link will be placed on the character's pages (similar to Wikipedia's portal system, which is much cleaner and centralized). So once that's up, then we can get rid of this tumor. (I also have been thinking on a way to clean up the infobox templates as well, because I really think they could be cleaner and more organized.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:53, 14 March 2006 (CST)

::How the hell does it "point out an obvious flaw"? It's a straw man--there is absolutely no way the character template will ever look like it. The portal would require two click to get from any one character page to any other character page, and I don't see how the *current* template (i.e. the one we're using) is at all ugly or a "tumor". Please, let's discuss the template we are currently using and not the straw man that Peter drew up as part of his deletion campaign. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:26, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::I was illustrating that the current organizational scheme would not be practical going into the future. If you don't see how the current template is ugly or a "tumor", I doubt I can convince you otherwise, but that's the version that my criticism and deletion vote are leveled at. De gustibus non est disputandum. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:46, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::::Then why did you even waste your time creating that straw man? In any case, I've created a separate idea based on Joe McCollugh's suggestion that uses a far more flexible organizational scheme. In fact, I'm going to implement that idea right now to end this dispute forever. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:55, 17 March 2006 (CST)

== Character Portal ==
[[User:Shane|Shane]] is working on (amongst other things) a Character portal. I think this would be an excellent way to expose the character articles in an organized manner. Rather than trying to cramp all the characters into a very limited space within the template, or ballooning the template to epic proportions, you'd have a whole page to work with. It doesn't exist yet, but I thought I would put it forward as a possible future solution to the whole template problem. Rather than having to support the weight of the full template, a smaller template could be employed with a link to the portal, or just a link (if we really need to save space). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:27, 14 March 2006 (CST)

:I think the template is small enough now to not look out of place at the bottom of any character bio large enough to merit inclusion. A portal in addition to the template would be good, though. There is some problem revolving around what to do with Cylons when we have more than one character from each model--while most of them are interchangeable within the same model, the Sharons and Sixes aren't. I also don't think the template will continually get larger, as over time we will remove characters like Hadrian and Jammer who fail to make an appearance. Once Season Three begins in earnest, we can start removing characters who mysteriously disappear. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:14, 14 March 2006 (CST)

:The dead characters should not even be in the template 24 hours after the show. They are dead. i.e. not coming back. If we were going to reference them, they should be in a deacased template. A portal will fix a lot of the navagation issues within Charaters pages. Cylons are not Characters per say, so they have their own Portal in my design [[User:Shane/Main_Page|here]]. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 14:17, 14 March 2006 (CST)

::That's silly. The old episodes still exist after the characters die, and deceased semi-major characters (like Billy and Crashdown) remain characters. It's not as though we'd even delete their articles — if the template is going to continue to exist (which I by no means advocate), it must accurately reflect the cast throughout the entire series, not just the present moment. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:14, 14 March 2006 (CST)

:::It's that constraint that dooms the template to grow to unreasonable proportions. I'm not disagreeing with the idea (people catching up on the series via DVD, iPod, or i18n broadcasts deserve character navigation too), just pointing out the fact that it becomes a "closed system" within which the entropy is bound to increase over time. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:11, 15 March 2006 (CST)

==Template:Characters Delenda Est==
I'm calling a vote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:01, 16 March 2006 (CST)

===<s>Keep</s>===
# <s>[[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:23, 17 March 2006 (CST)</s>

===<s>Delete</s>===
#<s>[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:00, 16 March 2006 (CST)</s>
#<s>[[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:08, 16 March 2006 (CST)</s>
# <s>--[[User:Shane|Shane]] 02:50, 17 March 2006 (CST)</s>

==Template refactoring/deletion vote==

Since you called a vote on the old version that I've replaced with a simpler organizational scheme I'm closing the original vote and calling a new one to avoid ambiguity. The new template is a minimal, three-line template intended to peacefully coexist with a more comprehensive portal. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:00, 17 March 2006 (CST)
:I remain baffled by the criteria used to select supporting and recurring characters. Why is Tory Foster (4 episodes) listed, while Socinus (9 episodes) is not? Why don't Gaeta, Tyrol and Dualla get first names? Why are Kat, Hot Dog and Racetrack just given call signs? Why is Cottle referred to as "Dr." while Baltar is not? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:30, 17 March 2006 (CST)
::OK, Tory Foster isn't listed, and Cottle isn't referred to as "Dr." As for the others, they're primarily known by their last names or callsigns anyway and it saves space. You're the one complaining about it being too large. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:34, 17 March 2006 (CST)
:::I'm complaining about it being too large, too inconsistant, inherently subjective and not very useful. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:36, 17 March 2006 (CST)
::::I've addressed the size issue. I'm addressing the consistency issue as well as I can. If you wish, we can come up with less subjective criteria, although I've addressed that as well--the "main" characters are the ones portrayed by actors listed in the opening titles, the "supporting" characters are the ones who appear in almost every episode for a long stretch of time and the "returning guests" are relatively important guest stars who show up repeatedly. As for use, its use is for navigation, and it's a lot quicker at that than clicking back and forth to a template or portal page. Now, if you're willing to provide constructive criticism, I'd be willing to work with you. I think you'll notice that I've made good faith attempts at addressing all your concerns so far, but there comes a time when you need to actually do something constructive yourself instead of spouting criticisms and Latin slogans. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:42, 17 March 2006 (CST)

===Keep refactored version (based upon main/supporting/returning guest organization)===
# [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:00, 17 March 2006 (CST)

===Revert to original version (based upon command/flight/civilian/etc. organization)===

===Delete outright===
#[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:03, 17 March 2006 (CST)
#[[User:Day|Day]] 03:34, 17 March 2006 (CST) Better, but still has issues.

===Discussion===

Note: I really don't think we need to delete this now. It's simple and it lists only the major characters on the show. Not everyone. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:32, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:That's the intention. You might notice I also linked to your portal so hopefully they can be companion pieces of sorts :) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 21:49, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::Yeah. I saw that. Good idea. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:09, 19 March 2006 (CST)

Can we get any more input on this? Issues I still have:
*Why do Kara Thrace, Lee Adama, and Karl Agathon get callsigns, but not William Adama?
*Why do Kara Thrace, Lee Adama, and Karl Agathon get proper names, but not Kat, Hot Dog and Racetrack?
*Why don't Gaeta, Tyrol and Dualla get first names?
*Why is Number Six listed as Number Six, while Number Five is listed as Aaron Doral and Number Eight is listed as Sharon Valerii?
*What criteria are we using to chose characters for this template? Is it just whatever "feels right"?
**Why is Leoben (2 appearances) listed, but not Number Three or Cavil (also 2 appearances)?
**Why Racetrack but not Socinus?
***This is not to say that I think we ''should'' list Socinus, who frankly I don't think is a widely loved character. But I think we should be able to articulate why not, apart from a vague feeling that he's probably not very important. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:02, 23 March 2006 (CST)

*"Starbuck", "Apollo", and "Helo" are frequently used in dialogue: "Husker" is not. Starbuck, Apollo, and Helo served as pilots during the series, Adama did not.
*Because their real names are used more often. Also, to save space.
*Because their first names have only appeared once or perhaps twice in the series, and to save space.
*Because that's what names we know them best as.
*I've already answered this question. If you want to help develop a less subjective criteria I would welcome that, but you've done no constructive work on this template yet so I'm not holding my breath. There is already some objective criteria: if the actor appears in the opening titles, their character is listed under "main", in the order that their name appears in the titles.
**Cavil appeared in both parts of a two-part episode: by that standard, anyone appearing in all four hours of the Mini-Series counts as four appearances. Leoben has made three appearances counting the end of "Lay Down Your Burdens" and will likely appear again at the season premiere.
**Racetrack is more recent. If it makes you feel better we can remove her. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:37, 23 March 2006 (CST)

I offered a potential criterion for minor characters above, about six weeks ago. Maybe you could read it and let me know what you think. As for the last point, it doesn't make me "feel" any particular way at all; I'm playing devil's advocate. I think that without any clear guideline to point to, someone will inevitably want to know why a certain character is listed while another one is not, and the template will balloon out of control again like it was before you refactored it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:56, 23 March 2006 (CST)

:The template will not balloon out of control, you have my personal assurance on that. I don't think we have anything else to discuss here since your contributions to this template are not constructive. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 19:46, 24 March 2006 (CST)

::I take it that you've read my suggestion for inclusion criteria above and found them wanting. May I please ask you why? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:46, 25 March 2006 (CST)

==Crashdown to Number Three==
As Crashdown has been dead a full year and wasn't a gigantic character like Admiral Cain or something, I suggest that we remove him and replace his space with a link to Number Three, as she will be important in season 3. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 11:16, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
:Agree. Maybe the priest also. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:17, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
:Residence in the character template is a '''privelege''', not a right. You have to earn your keep. I have no strong feelings about this particular issue (Crashdown vs. 3, etc), but I would like to see us avoid the uncontrolled growth that occured before. So I'm all for substituting out lesser/dead characters if new ones look like they need to brought in. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:24, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
::Yes, I try to "keep the population in check": keep a constant number, just switching dead/minor characters for major ones. (Admiral Cain was so big that she should kind of stay on even though she's dead, simply because she had such an impact on the show). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 23:55, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
:::If there are no objections, I'm making the switch. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 23:56, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

== Sort order ==
Forgive me, but sorting by credit order doesn't make sense. Alphabetical order is predictable, easy to recall and verify, and less overtly arbitrary. Barring an objection with reason, I'll return to alphabetization shortly. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 23:47, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
:Easy: the way they are ordered in the credits roughly reflects the characters' importance in the eyes of the writers (or whoever sets the credit sequence). It's not "arbitrary" if it's based on a deliberate decision made for the show. It's also trivial to verify opening credit order, as we've all seen the opening credits a million times and can check them at a moment's notice if they can't repeat them from memory. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:40, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::It is overtly arbitrary because it is not a typical way of sorting things (except ''actors''<nowiki>'</nowiki> names in credits). It is vastly easier to verify alphabetization than retrieve a DVD just to watch the credits. The idea of memorizing the credits is hilarious to me. Furthermore, the credit order can change.

::It is less useful to sort by contract-defined pseudo-importance than alphabetize for the simple reason that the credit order won't help anyone find an item in the list; that is the purpose of sorting anything in the first place.

::I still don't think you've made a convincing argument for sorting by the credits, so I will revert eventually barring that or someone else's agreement with you. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 23:06, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

:::The opening credit order hasn't changed since the first season. (Not sure about the miniseries). As for memorizing the credits, sometimes I forget that not everyone has a photographic memory. There are six people in the list. The difficulty of finding someone in a six-item list is trivial. Organizing them alphabetically is unnecessary and obsessive-compulsive. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:31, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
::::This keeps changing. To throw my two cents in, I have to agree with the ABC sorting. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:13, 15 August 2006 (CDT)

The opening credit order is unchanged since the miniseries (except the miniseries bills Callum Keith Rennie before Grace Park, largely because Sharon wasn't a major character (or more than one character, for that matter) until the first season. Since we've already subdivided the template according to the actor's status within the show's production (stars, supporting actors, and recurring guest stars hold different types of contracts), it makes sense to order them that way as well. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:32, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
:Welll we don't need them to be in order. If we didn't have the "Supportings", "Main", "etc", section then I would suggest it that way, but since we already sperate the three sections, I don't think we need to keep in the order of the credits. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:35, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
::It just looks out of place to me to have, for instance, Apollo before Adama. The credit sequence also gives a logical sequence: first the leaders of the fleet, then the top pilots, then Baltar and the Cylons. Organizing alphabetically just scrambles them for no good reason (making Admiral Adama "easier to find" within a list of six characters is not a good reason). [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:39, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
:::To be less kind, ordering by the credits also looks sloppy and unprofessional. The simple reason is that it is in no way apparent they are sorted at all; I, for one, didn't realize it. Unsorted lists speak to haphazard work, and the ''appearance'' of being unsorted speaks no less loudly.

:::Should you like another reason, it is inconsistent to sort the different tiers of characters differently, yet we cannot reasonably use the same ordering scheme for recurring guests. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 03:08, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
::::And it looks anal-retentive and obsessive-compulsive to have them all alphabetized, especially when it screws with the (in my eyes better) organization scheme used in the credits (first the leaders of the fleet, then the pilots/young officers, then Baltar, then the main two Cylon characters). If you'd like, we could sort the other categories by importance or frequency of appearance as well. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:49, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::Actually, I was using the inapplicablity of such a method of sorting to the other categories as a argument against that ordering scheme for the main characters, so, no, I would not like that. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 03:06, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
::::As with every other series out there, the credits are sorted by the importance of the actor and not the importance of the character. Therefore, I find the argument that the credits are sorted by the character's importance to be extremely weak at best. Secondly, alphabetical order makes sense, seeing as that how lists are typically sorted barring any other additional criteria that can be sorted. After all this template is named "Characters in the Current Series", not "Characters in the Current Series sorted by importance". Keeping that in mind, I concur with those who believe that alphabetically sorting this template will make the template make more sense out there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 08:07, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::It's also not called "Characters in the Current Series sorted alphabetically". Clearly they must be sorted somehow; whether they are sorted logically or symbolically is a separate question. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:06, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
::::Also, I need to make another point that just came to mind. Since LDYB, we have may spot changes. Take for instance Laura Roslin who is no longer president. Based off the "leaders first, military second and Cylons last" ordering scheme supported by Philwelch, Roslin would be moved immediately before the Cylons. Actually, the list of just the main characters would look very much like this: [[Gaius Baltar]] (Commander and Chief, President), [[William Adama]] (Admiral), [[Lee Adama]] (Commander), [[Kara Thrace]] (civvy), [[Laura Roslin]] (civvy), [[Number 6]], and [[Number 8]]. Food for thought, eh? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:12, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::Yes, except Roslin quickly assumes something resembling her former role in the resistance while Baltar is still a Cylon collaborator, so it works out. Besides, we're back to the fleet (and the general status quo) within the first ten episodes anyway, just like Season Two. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:06, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

== Terminology issue ==

Okay, something is bothering me slightly, and I want someone's opinion on it before I shake the apple tree. The template is "Characters in the Reimagined Series", but we have a section that refers to "Recurring Guests". I should point out that the ''actors'' are the recurring guests, the ''characters'' are always there, even if they're not in the focus of a particular episode. I'm suggesting we drop the "guests" part off there. A minor nitpick, but one that has meaning within.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 15:35, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
: Thanks! You are indeed correct and I've gone ahead and fixed the error. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:42, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

== Adding Simon, Shortening Kat ==

Personally, I find it very odd that Simon isn't in the Character Template. Admittedly, he's one of the least frequently appearing of the Cylon characters, but he seems important enough to me that he should be included in the recurring characters.

This raises the issue of space in the template. I don't think anyone there deserves to be taken out. However, perhaps we could shorten the link for Kat. I don't see any real reason why we have her full name there. It's virtually never mentioned; she's pretty much universally referred to as Kat. At least with Lee and Kara, they are referred to as their given names and call signs with about equal frequency. Truncating Kat's link to merely "Kat" wouldn't confuse anyone looking for her, it would keep it in line with the links for "Hotdog" and "Racetrack," and it would afford Simon some space.

I didn't want to make any changes without hearing what others thought? Does listing her as 'Louanne "Kat" Katraine' really add anything to the template? And is there any particular reason to keep Simon on the list?-- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 15:56, 13 November 2006 (CST)
: No one responded to my proposal, so I was so bold as to go ahead and include Simon. If the decision is a poor one, it isn't permanent.
: I also noticed that in the other columns, the Cylons had been put at the end of the list, regardless of alphabetical order. I've done the same thing with the recurring category, so now Conoy, Doral, and Simon are at the end. -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 21:41, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::Actually, they were in alphabetical order by last name with ties broken based on alphabetical order by first name (or the word "Number"). "Valeri" comes last, explaining her place. The rest of the Cylons that were last ended up that way because they have no last name. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 00:07, 17 November 2006 (CST)

Could anobody tell me why Cavil is considered Supporting Character while Kat is considered Recurring? Cavil appeared in five episodes or so and Kat appeared in about fifteen... -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 21:57, 16 November 2006 (CST)

== Billy & Ellen ==
I say we should remove Billy and Ellen, because they're dead. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:37, 26 November 2006 (CST)
: No, because they are important to the overall story. Both were major recurring characters during the first two seasons, whose influence lingers. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:49, 26 November 2006 (CST)
::I pulled them into a "deceased" category with Kat and Crashdown. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:36, 12 December 2006 (CST)
:::I think this is a great idea and I can't understand why you reverted your edits. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:33, 12 December 2006 (CST)
::::Because I hate this template and any edit that makes it bigger makes me want to stab my eyes out. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:30, 23 December 2006 (CST)
:::::The template isn't ''that'' bad. If anything, we could use the show/hide function to reduce the initial size of the template. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:11, 23 December 2006 (CST)

==Moving Cavil in Recurring==

There was no reason for Cavil to be smack in the middle of the Recurring characters. The cylons without last names go at the end of the list. So Cavil should be right in front of Simon. Unless people think "Cavil" is a last name. In which case Cavil should have been before Leoben and Hotdog. Either way, Cavil was in the wrong place. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:02, 11 February 2007 (CST)

Template:Characters

2007-02-11T07:59:19Z

Alpha5099: Re-ordering Recurring characters

<div align="center">
{| id="characters" class="messagebox"
|-
| align="center" | '''[[Portal:Characters|Characters]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]'''
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Main:''' [[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]] | [[William Adama]] | [[Gaius Baltar]] | [[Laura Roslin]] | [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] | [[Number Eight|Sharon (Number Eight)]] | [[Number Six]]
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Supporting:''' [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]] | [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]] | [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] | [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] | [[Saul Tigh]] | [[Cally Tyrol]] | [[Galen Tyrol]]
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Recurring:''' [[Samuel Anders]] | [[Leoben Conoy]] | [[Brendan Constanza|"Hotdog"]] | [[Number Five]] | [[Margaret Edmondson|"Racetrack"]] | [[Tom Zarek]] | [[Cavil]] | [[Simon]]
|-
| align="center" style="font-size: 90%;" |'''Deceased:''' [[Crashdown|"Crashdown"]] | [[Elosha]] | [[Helena Cain]] | [[Billy Keikeya]] | [[Ellen Tigh]] | [[Louanne Katraine|"Kat"]] | [[James Lyman|"Jammer"]] | [[Number Three]]
|-
| align="right" | {{navbar|type=mini|Characters}}
|}
</div>

<noinclude>
[[Category:Navigational Infobox|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[es:Plantilla:Characters]]
</noinclude>

Talk:Taking a Break From All Your Worries/Archive 1

2007-01-29T18:51:41Z

Alpha5099:

Perhaps this episode will deal with Lee Adama's promise to build a bar for the pilots? [[User:Bochawa|bochawa]] 08:47, 12 August 2006 (CDT)Bochawa
:Then that would call for a cameo by Ted Danson. [[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:07, 13 August 2006 (PDT)
:: I rather have "Norm" show up. "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear." --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:32, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

I'm glad to see EJO directing another episode. I loved Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:10, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

==Promo Pics==
Can be found [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000a3qwe here]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:04, 7 January 2007 (CST)
:Looks like many of the scenes are in a '''bar'''. ''Ha!'' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:42, 18 January 2007 (CST)
::Thoughts on the promo pics of Baltar in the Resurrection Tank? Dream? Real? Baltar going off in his own little world again?--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 21:41, 26 January 2007 (CST)
:::RDM said in an interview it was a dream or fantasy sequence --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::::Note the dead surrounding him. Yep, unless zombies are a new Cylon menace or Colonial weapon, I'd say fantasy. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:59, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Missed the Podcast...thanks Merciful. Maybe the Final Five are all zombies?! :)--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 17:31, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::::::ZOMBIES! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 23:59, 27 January 2007 (CST)

==Podcast Question==

So, these things involving Joe's Bar, Layne, and Sagitarrons, were they ideas proposed for the episode that got dropped in the writing phase, or did they film these scenes and they got cut? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:51, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Talk:Sykes/Archive 1

2007-01-27T00:32:02Z

Alpha5099: New page: I posted on the BW:OC about the actor who played Sykes. I'm almost positive it's Tygh Runyan, so if Bradley Thompson (or someone else) confirms it, we'll add it to the info box. And do we ...

I posted on the BW:OC about the actor who played Sykes. I'm almost positive it's Tygh Runyan, so if Bradley Thompson (or someone else) confirms it, we'll add it to the info box. And do we know for sure that Sykes is a marine? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 18:32, 26 January 2007 (CST)

Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques

2007-01-26T16:03:26Z

Alpha5099: /* Sykes */

{{project|Official Communique's|image=BSG WIKI Official CrewCast.png|shortcut=BW:OC}}

Members of '''''Battlestar Wiki''''': This page is to coordinate all questions to any official members of the cast or crew of "[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]." Please sign your question after you are done. The "summary" of the question should be be first, if any, and then the questions, in short form, should be placed at the bottom. This is to not confuse people and to keep the quetions distinctive.

Cast/Crew: These are questions we are seeking from you. If you have the time, please answer them as best you can. We will move these questions/answers to the correct page once they have been done. You can also check out ''[[:md:Category:Seeking Official Information|Category:Seeking Official Information]]'' for larger items - particularly pictures.

All questions which have been previously answered can be found on the archive pages. Questions get moved to the archives once items and questions seeming from the issue have stopped.

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| [[Image:BSG WIKI Caution.png]]
| [[Bradley Thompson]] is very busy. Time to answer questions might be a while.
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== Kacey's real name ==
I've noticed that the actor who plays Kacey has been spelled two different ways in the end credits: Madeline Parker and Madeleine Parker (with an extra "e"). Assuming that these aren't twins, which spelling is correct? Thanks.

I'm also assuming that the director's name was misspelled for Torn. Jean de Segonzac has directed many shows and movies while there is no information on a Jean de Segoznac as the director's name was spelled in the onscreen credits. -- [[User:123home123|123home123]] 19:23, 9 November 2006 (CST)

==Cottle's first name==
Since we're asking for characters' first names, does doctor [[Cottle]] have one already? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 04:06, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::He has a first and middle but we've never said it onscreen or published it in scripts. He said he'd thump us if we revealed it. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 14:31, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Use of the Wiki ==

Well... I think most of want to know this because everyone puts in time into the Wiki, but we were wondering if you (or the writers) look to the wiki (the question section in particular) as a guide to see what arc's have or haven't been completed in the "series". [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:52, 4 January 2007 (CST)
:That's a nice question. We can't or shouldn't be a true "source" (that's a bit of a fanwank) but if help in pointing out writing gaffes that have been improved, or confirming unofficially that some of the fans "get it" (the overall storylines and characterizations) then it's a nice ego boost. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:45, 5 January 2007 (CST)
::And egos are always nice things to have boosted. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:18, 5 January 2007 (CST)
:::I might use it to get a head start tracking down some plot point that I later confirm within the organization. Thanks guys. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 14:30, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== [[Dirty Hands]] ==

Can you confirm if "Dirty Hands" has been re-titled "Our Enemies, Ourselves"? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:29, 12 January 2007 (CST)
::"Our Enemies, Ourselves" was the original story for Episode 15, but as Michael Angeli's Ep 13 ("The Woman King") evolved, we found that it was working the same thematic ground as "Our Enemies," so we developed a different story, which became "Dirty Hands." - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 14:28, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:::I really liked the title "Our Enemies, Ourselves" though. One of the best titles in the show so far IMO. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:08, 26 January 2007 (CST)

== Question on a recurring extra ==

In early Season One, there was a large Asian pilot with tattoos that appeared at a card game. As far as I remember, he disappeared after that. Then he reappeared during the partying scenes in Scar. And now he's back in a major way in Season Three, appearing in most scenes involving lots of pilots. Personally, I'm a huge fan of the man, and was wondering if there's any actual information on him. Does he have a name? And will he ever get a line? Thanks for your time. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 13:51, 6 December 2006 (CST)
:Good question. Lots of pictures can be found in [http://z15.invisionfree.com/Galactica_B_S/index.php?showtopic=431 this Galactica BS thread].--[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 18:02, 6 December 2006 (CST)
::I created an article about him: [[Tattooed pilot]]. When (if) Brad gives us his actual name, we can move it.[[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 06:09, 22 December 2006 (CST)
:::He's getting the reputation of being BSG's counterpart to [[w:Morn|Morn from ''Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'']]. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:38, 5 January 2007 (CST)
::::Now we know the name of the extra: [[Leo Li Chiang]]. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 20:17, 15 January 2007 (CST)

==Why Did D'Anna Die?==
Hello Mr.Thompson, there's been some debate and uncertainty about why exactly D'Anna died after seeing the Final Five? When she got bloody-nosed and foggy eyed and died....

Was it because she saw the Final Five? Or was it some sort of "kill signal" for all Threes in order to box them? Thank you for your time. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:42, 23 January 2007 (CST)
:::To see god is to know madness. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 14:32, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::::Thanks :) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:56, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Cavil's number ==

The closed captioning in [[Exodus, Part I]] said:
:'''Number Two''': This is three downloads for me.
Should this be regarded as a canonical confirmation that Cavil is in fact Number Two?

::Nope. All it confirms is that this particular Brother Cavil's "consciousness" has been incarnated three times so far. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 14:35, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:::Thanks for the answer (and for many other answers on this page), I'll forward this to our Cavil-is-Number-Two discussion. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:45, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Battlestar Triton's BSG Number ==

Hello Mr. Thompson and other ''Battlestar'' crew, nice to be talking with you. I was just wondering what the ''Triton''’s Battlestar Group number was? The image [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Tritonpatch_33.JPG] of the ''Triton'' patch from [[Crashdown]]'s profile page shows "''Battlestar Triton - BSG-3*''". I was just wondering, what was the second digit of the number? Is it BSG-33? Because if so that's pretty damn clever. Thank you for your time. --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 19:22, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:Kahran, I'm sorry to blow my omnipotent image here, but I don't know. I'll have to save your question for the costume department when (if) they come back for the next season. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 14:41, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::Well, thank you anyway. Here's hoping for Season Four (and beyond!) --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 16:54, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Sykes ==
There's a character in Rapture, named Sykes. I am pretty much absolutely certain he is played by Tygh Runyan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0750353/). I had two questions. First, I just wanted confirmation on the name of the character and the actor. I've asked others, they agree with me it's the same guy. The other question is, is there more to Sykes? Tygh Runyan is a somewhat well known actor. He's appeared in several TV shows, and had a fairly prominent role in Snakes on a Plane. It seems odd that he'd be cast as just an extra. Did he have lines that were cut? Will he be appearing more? Thank you. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 23:00, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:That's ANOTHER Galactica person in SoaP! (Or SoaP person in Galactica if that's what you prefer) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 06:43, 26 January 2007 (CST)
::I know about Chuckles and one of the terrorists from Sacrifice. Is there anyone else? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 10:03, 26 January 2007 (CST)

Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques

2007-01-26T05:00:44Z

Alpha5099: Added question