Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2007-01-23T11:43:31Z

Alcibiades: /* WTF moment */

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like a good plotline actually. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
::::No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --[[User:starryniteynite|starryniteynite]]

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

== Duelling Sharons ==

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

:It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our ''Galactica'' nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using ''us'' as a source! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes ''aren't'' Class-D? :P --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Image==
Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

So... is someone with the means actually going to replace the image with one relevant to this episode? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 21:12, 20 December 2006 (CST)

:Silly joking aside, I agree that the picture should be replaced. I'd do it, but I don't have a good screencap --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:34, 23 December 2006 (CST)

:I happen to have the episode, so, it's done. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:57, 23 December 2006 (CST)

::Well, I still see a thumbnail of the old image here and there (e.g. on the main page or on Mercifull's user page). -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:09, 27 December 2006 (CST)

:::You may need to purge your browser's image cache to see the new image. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:12, 28 December 2006 (CST)

::::I've just purged my Maxthon's image cache a moment ago and I still see an old thumbnail. Tried that also with Opera and Firefox -- all the same. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 04:27, 28 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Starbuck survive?==
Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" '''hoping''' the Cylons would shoot her down.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Nuking the Planet==

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Or perhaps the missiles can be aborted, until they reach a critical flight time. Could make for a ''very'' tense moment or two. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:Is it just me or didn't he actually give the order to fire. He said "release of nuclear weapons is now authorized". That might sound strange, but I took that to be a preliminary order to firing. For example that now even Tigh would be able to launch them on his say --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:03, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::No, you're correct on that; essentially all they were doing was opening the "barn doors". I was discussing the hypotheticals of the missiles, if they should be launched in the next ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:33, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:::Aye, we're just jumping the gun a little, and discussing possibles ways out of it, if Adama does indeed decide to launch :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 02:17, 21 December 2006 (CST)

::::Am I the only one who thinks he might be targeting the nukes for the Raiders on their way to the surface? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:53, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Then why this-
:::::'''Adama''':Load target package three-bravo. Set ground zero for the underground structure.
::::: -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 19:19, 29 December 2006 (CST)

:::::: Damn, I missed that. Consider me stumped, then. -[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:17, 30 December 2006 (CST)

I watched the episode for the first time last night. I had this theory after the show ended...If the star of this system is going to go supernova, as Gaeta has described,

("Gaeta: Could be tomorrow. Could be next year. There's no way of knowing for sure, sir. When it does happen, the only warning that we're likely to get is a fast helium flash, at which point we'll have to jump out of here before it obliterates the entire planetary system. Sir, I am not one to look for religious signs. But I can't get my head around these odds. That human and Cylon both converge on this planet at this exact moment just as the star's about to go supernova…")

there most likely is an abundance of solar phenomena being emitted from the sun, maybe an increase of solar flares even. Solar flares have the "energy equivalent to a billion megatons, traveling normally at about 1 million km per hour"..."They produce electromagnetic radiation across the electromagnetic spectrum at all wavelengths from long-wave radio to the shortest wavelength gamma rays:(solar flare wiki ref.) I know that Solar Flares can disrupt electronics on and orbiting earth, and I'm sure Galactica's systems are somewhat protected from bursts of electromagnetic energy...but somehow I had the idea that the nukes are probably not as well insulated. Since there is so much solar activity in the region, I had the idea that maybe something like a flare (not the helium flash Gaeta talked about) would happen just as the nukes were launched..causing them to blow in the upper atmosphere directly over the temple. This would allow for quite a light show, and perhaps could allow that light shaft in the Temple of Five to be intensified. On the BaseStar with Baltar and Three, the Hybrid mentions something about "the five lights of the apocalypse" here:

"Hybrid: ...I don't care if it rains or freezes, as long as… the five lights of the apocalypse rising... sins revealed only to those who enter the temple, only to the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, end of line. Until next time … the eye, the eye, the eye, look into the eye to know thyself."

Maybe this is the way the temple is activated, maybe this is how the eye of Jupiter (Jupiter/Zeus/Adama's nukes) appears over the temple and activates the key...and Hey, maybe the solar flare would take care of the Heavy Rader flight systems too...Who knows, just an idea I had wished to share.

"Chief: And the heavens opened up, and they saw the Eye. But where is that frakking Eye?"

--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:08, 3 January 2007 (CST)

:Holy crap that's a good theory. Wow. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)
:Nice theory indeed. Maybe the five lights of the apocalypse are actually five nukes? Nukes would qualify as lights of apocalypse, but then so would a supernova. Also, I revisited the Hybrid's prophecy: ("Find the hand that lies in the shadow of the light, in the eye of the husband of the eye of the cow"). The light is most likely the bright star cluster (although it could also be the nukes, the supernova or the helium flash), but "in the shadow" hasn't really been explained properly. Now I just realized that since the temple is an underground structure, it would be in the shadow all the time. Might be something, might not be something, we'll see. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:47, 3 January 2007 (CST)

== WTF moment ==

I was on the [[Karl Agathon]] page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across [[:Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|this old picture]]. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding '''unsigned''' comment was added by {{User|Alcibiades}}.
: Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting ''really really really'' looks like the art in the temple. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::It's a painting in her room and part of the column in the temple. :) --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)
: So Starbuck is an artist. She paints The Eye of Jupiter. Is it a known symbol or is this the first time anyone else has seen it? If it's not well-known, what does that say about Starbuck? Doesn't it make her prescient? Maybe her true calling is as an oracle. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:29, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I'm with Catrope here. If I'm remembering my "Valley Of Darkness" podcast correctly, Tahmoh and Katee painted the apartment themselves, without any direction from Ron or the rest of the show crew. It's quite possible that someone noticed that particular pattern and decided to make it significant. And, hey, maybe she ''is'' an Oracle who just hasn't realized that she has the gift. Give the girl some chamalla and see what she can do. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Starbuck found a spiritual calling to fill the enormous gaps in her soul that she tries to fill with sex, booze, speed, duty, and violence. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:33, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:A friend of mine told me he though the painting and the decoration looked a lot like a star or an explosion, and then brought up the word "supernova". Could this picture be some sort of reference to the star going supernova? (I must admit I'm contradicting myself here, because I said earlier I thought the similarity to be some sort of an inside joke. Of course it's possible that Sackhoff&Penikett accidentally painted something that looked like an explosion, and that's why the writers chose that particular painting.) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:36, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::I've updated the [[Cylon agent speculation]] article on Thrace's entry with the two pictures in question. This is not a coincidence; there is some connection, but we have to wait to know what. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:45, 12 January 2007 (CST)
Well it turns out Mitsukai was right, and a lot of others were not!--[[User:Alcibiades|Alcibiades]] 05:43, 23 January 2007 (CST)

== 18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage" ==

If 18 people were lost from '''The Passage''' episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto ''Galactica'' (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and ''Galactica'' would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

: Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight ==

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "[[Cylon Agent]]" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Names of marines==
Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is [[Fischer]], but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

::OK, we know that it's [[Fischer]], [[Griggs]], [[Varrick]], [[Henick]] and [[Ditko]]. Since after she says "Henick and Ditko" the camera centers first on the black guy and then on the bald guy, can we assume that the first one is Henick and the latter one is Ditko, and the one in a hat is Griggs? It's conjectural, but looks reasonable to me and it would be nice to add pictures to their articles. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 14:46, 22 December 2006 (CST)

== Location of the Eye? ==

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)
::Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: The [[Sacred Scrolls]] have so far contained information about [[Laura Roslin]] being sick, [[Sharon Agathon]] helping them to find the [[Tomb of Athena]], and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: Note the shaft of light streaming across the central pillar in the final scenes of the episode. Perhaps something will be revealed when it becomes centered upon the prominent symbol seen there. --[[User:Spidey3|Spidey3]] 12:29, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::That was the way my mind was working. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:39, 18 December 2006 (CST)
I believe that the Sky Opening Up will be the explosion of the nuclear weaponry activating or destroying something which will then reveal the Eye. --[[User:Teal Thanatos|Teal Thanatos]]

== Boomer in the brig? ==

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:Besides, the least thing they need on ''Galactica'' right now would be Boomer to break out of the brig, throw on a uniform and have a "Guess the Sharon" contest. Aside from that, I expect that kind of trite plotwork I just mentioned from lesser sci-fi series, not this one.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Summary ==

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five ==

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. {{unsigned|Tylonius}}

:To ''Battlestar's'' credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

::Time may not be an issue. Remember the Colonial Scriptures are full of prophecies, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that the Temple of Five could've been constructed for something before it happened, for the purpose of making it happen in due time.

::The Five could do whatever releated them to the temple much like Roslin is directly related to finding the tomb Athena, even though she lived thousands of years after everything else was set.

::This is all speculation, of course, but oh well....--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:59, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:::The Final Five are directly connected to the Temple of Five: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2006/12/one_of_the_cent.html -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:16, 20 December 2006 (CST)

::::“Essentially the Temple of the Five is directly connected to the five Cylons we have not seen.” - RDM
::::I've been thinking about the ambiguous ''sins'' the [[Hybrid]] mentions, that appear to be in regards to the Five. My working theory is that the five priests who served "The One Who Cannot Be..." and the Five Cylon Models who served the Cylon God both committed the ''sin'' of Rebellion, and that both dieties they rebelled against are one and the same. I also (big leap now), think that Model One is among the Rebel Five. Being rebel ''Angels of God'' (as Virtual-Six refers to herself), that would make One the RDM-equivalent to TOS-Lucifer, now wouldn't it? Chief and first of the (from the cylon perspective) "fallen" angels (as opposed to speculation that One ''is'' the Cylon God) --[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 02:16, 23 December 2006 (CST)

== Human Nicknames ==
I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points).
Cropped text:
*This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
**It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]] and [[Simon]]. In ''[[The Passage]]'', D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".
Thanks. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:
*This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. [[Caprica-Six]]).
*Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of [[Cavil]]'s, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s and [[Simon]]'s numbers. In "[[Torn]]", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "[[The Passage]]" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.
:Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged".
I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new number though. We've heard plenty of statements like "We Threes think we can't take the risk.", ideal statements to introduce new numbers with. Of course these numbers aren't a big deal, but die-hard fans tend to like to know these details. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::True. Though the more detail the introduce, the more chances they have to get it wrong. Even with the few model numbers we have revealed RDM sometimes has [[Podcast:The_Passage#Act_1|difficulty keeping them straight]], confusing the Eight's (Sharons) with the Three's (D'annas). Either way, we'll be here, documenting. I sometimes wonder if we're (the die-hard detail documenters) aren't his worst nightmares (if we even bothers thinking about us). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:52, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::::I always thought it was a nice nod to buckaroo banzai where all the villains had the same first name. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 22:05, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::I believe it would make sense that there is a plan with rolling out the remaining agent numbers. For example, whether or not "One" is one of the missing Five has a great deal of bearing on the development of the cylon narrative, and so would be kept quiet until the episode revealing that fact. If He/She is one of the missing Five, but "Two" is not, then Two's identity ([[Cavil]], [[Leoben]], or [[Simon]]) also has a great deal of bearing on the narrative. Cavil has been shown using some leverage on Three. He's got my money for being Two. I think One is with the missing Five.--[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 22:58, 25 December 2006 (CST)

== Question on article ==

*When did [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] go over to the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons']] way of thinking? In this episode she clearly doesn't seem to think of herself as human anymore like she did in "[[Downloaded]]."
:I had assumed that by LDYB, II that the Cylons had gone over to Boomer and Caprica-Six's way of thinking, hence their (C-six and Boomer) sudden rise to power as well as the sudden Cylon cease-fire. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:24, 19 December 2006 (CST)

== Hera ==

I cannot believe that Adm. Adama has apparently no idea what happened to Hera. He was involved in this discussion in [[Downloaded]]. He should knew that Hera and her foster mother moved to [[New Caprica]]. I am very surprised that he became so angry after Roslin told him that she kept the child in her school. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 17:21, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:Adama and Roslin only agreed in "[[Downloaded]]" that Sharon cannot be allowesd raise the baby. Maybe he assumed/was told that Hera was killed by Cottle? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:34, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::That they concluded at the discussion that the child should be killed would fit with this episode events and Baltars look at the end of "Downloaded" when being chided by his internal six. However that option was mentioned onscreen and the entire tone of the conversation at that point makes it seem somewhat unlikely that this would been the final decision. Given that Baltar was never in on the adoption-plot (he apparently didn't know Hera was alive on New Caprica) and we now know Adama didn't know about it either the discussion outcome must have been either to kill the child or to postpone the decision (with Heras apparent death solving the problem). I'm quite willing to buy that Adama believed the child had died a natural death, given that complication in a hybrid between man and machine were to exspected. But I have troubles with Roslin doing it all behind Adamas back (why did she have to do that?) and Adama not making a decision whatever immediately (in Downloaded). [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:40, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Recent Summary Reorganization Problems ==

I'm normally OK about reorganization of a summary, but the recent one handled by SgtPayne creates more work and confusion. Links previously added are missing, conventions once there are missing, and the narrative flow of the summary is extremely confusing. Normally we can break up events by location (events on Galactica, basestars, planets) because they are mostly separate events that don't directly connect, but this episode has both Cylons and Colonial events occurring in response to each other and in "real-time." I am ''this close'' to rolling back the summary and adding edits made afterwards to restore both narrative flow and conventions, but I wanted comments from others first. As an admin I would just roll it back because of all the wikilinking and convention breakage, but it's more than that. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:36, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:This is one that I might suggest we do "Act" reporting summary. So the events are intertwined. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:56, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::I believe that's exactly what the summary contained before that infamous edit: a chronological report of the events in this episode. Since everything and everyone interacts with eachother and is at the same place, that would be a logical choice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:03, 20 December 2006 (CST) (I hate edit conflicts)
:I haven't checked it for style and links, but I agree that the summary should be chronological. Splitting up the locations is fine if they aren't related. But as you said, here they are heavily interwined and dependent on each other --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:'''Revert.''' It looked better the way it was. The new split makes for a very confusing read. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I have reverted the article and restored relevant edits made after that reorganization. One persistant edit that I keep changing involves the "shaft of light" in the Temple as Tyrol is inspecting the symbology in the Temple. That "shaft" is Tyrol's flashlight beam. While that direct light ''might'' do something unexpected as it approaches the central target-shaped symbol, it's not coming from some mystic source within the structure. I've clarified this in the article. Contributors are always free to edit it, but its fairly clear, so analysis should be used to interpret what it might do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:48, 20 December 2006 (CST)

In light of the recent reversion, I should drop my two cents in regarding the "reorganization". When I first read the article, I felt that it was too "narrative" rather than "summary", which is what the section suggests. The consolidation was an attempt to make the information as concise as possible. I also attempted to keep as many reference links as necessary. In regards to the location split, this was done in line with previous articles, which had definitive locations. My apologies if it confused readers, but it should be said that summaries are just that, and should not be play-by-play accounts of the episode. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 12:18, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:The location split you introduced is good practice when there are multiple storylines that do not interfere with eachother. A nice example of that is "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". In most episodes this is the case (end s1-begin s2 even had 3 or 4 separate storylines), but in this particular episode the three locations affect eachother so greatly that the split you introduced makes for extemely confusing reading: a bullet point in the basestar story references events told in the Galactica part, and viceverse. (Let's not even start about the Algae Planet part). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:45, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::You bring up a good point. In trying to put it together, there were some areas where I wasn't sure where to put it. On the whole, I was looking to clean it up a bit. Trying to read it line-for-line blurs out after a while... --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 14:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::I've broken up the summary into acts. It seems to solve both problems. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:24, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::aye. nice job. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:34, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I concur. It definitely cleans up the look of the page. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 22:55, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Missile Tubes==
Where exactly are they and shouldnt that be an article in "Galactica Areas" Snorkel378

:They are located on the dorsal side of the ship, slightly forward of the four guns ahead of the Colonial seal, and sit in two rows of six. And sure, why not create an article in that section? -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 19:12, 29 December 2006 (CST)

== More Nested Analysis ==
*The [[tylium]] planned for the mines could only come from their single Raptor. This supports the [[Substances in the Re-imagined Series#The Tylium Question|high energy yield of the fuel]] that, at the same time, would not sacrifice the Raptor's flight ability.
**It's also possible that the tylium used was fuel stored at the camp to power its generators and/or refuel the Raptors and other ships involved in the harvest.
Please resolve these into either one or two single-level bullets, then re-add to the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:56, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:Done. I also updated the nuke count in this section. Admiral Adama orders launch tubes four through ten loaded, which means he's prepared seven nuclear warheads, not six. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 09:05, 22 December 2006 (CST)
::Nicely done. Thanks! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:51, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Major Point:
Note that Hera is the wife of Roman God Jupiter, the derivative of the Greek Zeus. {{unsigned|PhoenixFlight}}
:Yes, Hera's counterpart in the Roman pantheon is Juno. The association is noted over many episodes to date. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:22, 6 January 2007 (CST)

== Playing with the date? ==

In Kobol's Last Gleaming, they stated the ruins on Kobol were 2000 years old, "around the time of the exodus of the 13 tribes". When they found the beacon at the Lion's Head Nebula, they said it was 3000 years old, and now they're saying the Temple of Five is at least 4000 years old. Each time they give a new date a thousand years earlier, it seems to still coincide with the exodus date of the thirteenth tribe.

Am I the only one noticing this inconsistancy?

: My memory may be off, but I was under the impression that the 13th tribe left Kobol long before the other twelve. So... maybe the 13th tribe left 4k years ago, and the rest left 2k years later. Fanwankery? Spotty memory on my part? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:08, 25 December 2006 (CST)

::Both, sort of. The date in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" refers to all thirteen tribes collectively. In "A Measure of Salvation" and "The Eye of Jupiter", they refer to the thirteenth tribe alone.
::'''Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I'''
:::Roslin: How old are the ruins?
:::Billy: We won't know for sure until they send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years.
:::Elosha: That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol
::'''A Measure of Salvation'''
:::Adama: According to Cottle, the virus was an exact match to one reported over 3,000 years ago. Right around the time that the Thirteenth Colony left Kobol.
::'''The Eye of Jupiter'''
:::Tyrol: Our initial radiocarbon dating suggests that the temple's at least 4,000 years old, which lines up with the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe.
::--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:16, 26 December 2006 (CST)

:::Here's a thought. What if this isn't an accident? We've speculated already that humanity might have emigrated from Earth to Kobol before the thirteenth tribe returned. If the further away from Kobol we get, the older the artifacts we find, what does that tell us? That the thirteenth tribe was traveling not from Kobol to Earth, but from Earth to Kobol. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 06:03, 28 December 2006 (CST)

::::Well, it may not be an accident, but the Colonials seem to think that the 13th tribe left Kobol for Earth. So why, upon finding that the artifacts get older as they journey further from Kobol/closer to Earth, would they conclude that the dating analysis confirms their scriptures? Put another way, if they dates say the tribe went from Earth to Kobol, but the scriptures say they went from Kobol to Earth, why aren't the Colonials confused? It's an interesting idea, nonetheless. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:29, 31 December 2006 (CST)

:::::Okay, it could also be that we're giving the Colonials too much credit in their dating. Elosha is a priest. Maybe her date of 2,000 is based on scripture, not fact. Also, the date of 4,000 could just mean that it predates the time that they knew the other 12 colonies left Kobol, thus it had to be built by the 13th tribe. The 13th tribe may have had outposts all throughout the galaxy while still calling Kobol home. Furthermore, since there are apparently 21,000 years of recorded history, maybe to the Colonials a few thousand years of inaccuracy in dating don't really make a difference. You could compare it to modern day humans who confuse the 15th and 16th centuries. Of course, now I'm fully in the territory of fanwanking/making up excuses. The seven months/nine months disparity with regard to the Colonial election was never even acknowledged, so there is a good possibility these inconsistent dates are just a product of sloppiness. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:40, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Nut we Don't know how long it took to get everyone from earth off of kobol because it would take awhile to get huge civilizations away from a planet.Snorkel378

== Dichotomy of Signs to Earth==

I find it rather interesting that the first real sign to Earth that they found was a satellite/probe (first found by the Cylons). This would represent the high tech sign-post to Earth. The second sign to Earth is this hidden "Temple of Five" which is plainly a spiritual sign. Anyone else thing this is very interesting? I wonder what was on the satellite. Too bad RDM didn't allow them to examine it. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 21:57, 26 December 2006 (CST)

==The G-4==
Hey how come in the summary it doesnt mention the G-4 about to go off right by Tyrol? Snorkel378

:*Unaware how events are escalating around and above him, Chief Tyrol illuminates the carved writings of the Temple with his flashlight and reads the inscriptions, trying to locate the actual resting place of the Eye. At one point, his flashlight's beam moves close to the target-shaped symbol in the center of the central spire.
:How about we make that:
:*Having strapped explosives to the central spire of the temple, Chief Tyrol...
:--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 06:17, 31 December 2006 (CST)

No I mean the activation light on 1 of the explosives is blinking which means it is going to detonate.The article does not mention that.
Snorkel378
:There is nothing to suggest that the blinking lights don't simply mean that it is armed rather than about to explode. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])

Yes but the music can easily tell u what is happening and it has a danger coming sound to it-Snorkel378
:Thats fanwanking. We have seen nothing to suggest that the explosives are about to detonate. All we know is that the explosives are armed and the flashing light could simply be to note that fact. You may very well be right but so far there has been no aired information to say that you are and until the next episode airs we wont know. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)

You are right I geuss im some crazy kid huh :) Snorkel378

:The explosives set by Tyrol and Anders in Occupation have a light that blinks, but the explosives only go off when the detonator is activated. The light is in no way indicative of and impending explosion -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 15:51, 12 January 2007 (CST)

== Last name in the credits ==

Okay, after a month, I think I finally found the last remaining actor/character in the closing credits. Thanks to the inane sense of necessity in scrunching the credits (so they can apparently advertise the same things they do 23 times a day in normal commerical airtime) I was unable to read the last name, getting the first two through squinting and deduction. I skimmed one last time and believe I found the last, unreadable name. According to
[http://www.thelogbook.com/logbook/series/battlestar-galactica-new/newgalactica-season-3/page/2/ this site] it's [[Tygh Runyan]] as Pvt. [[Byers]]. I looked at the guy at IMDb and although he's not given the credit (no surprise), he ''can'' be spotted in the episode. Even [http://tv.yahoo.com/battlestar-galactica/show/the-eye-of-jupiter-part-1/episode/111786/castcrew Tv.Yahoo], a considerably more reliable source, has him listed (sans character name). Any disagreement in adding him? I'm sure someone here has clear visual access to the credit, but I'm going through a consensus since it hasn't been added by said "someone". --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 00:04, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:Do you have a screenshot for us to look at? Might be best to wait for it to air in HD then it will be much clearer. Alternatively ask on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques]] page. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:27, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:: TYoJ Will be airing in HD over here in a few weeks, not sure about America though. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 03:32, 16 January 2007 (CST)
:::I have the iTunes copy of this: I've confirmed the same names and spelling. Do we know where he is (on the planet?). That would be enough to make a stub. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:23, 16 January 2007 (CST)
I've only spotted him in one scene. It's at the start of Act 4 when Anders is dividing them up into two teams. He is among those Sam is talking to, wearing a cap and at one point, he's given an entire frame (with Anders' shoulder in the foreground). He appears mainly in a shot where he is at the very left, with Lee, Barolay, and Anders to his right. I hope that paints a good enough picture since I'm unable to get a screencap. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 13:59, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Talk:Torn/Archive2

2006-12-31T12:55:04Z

Alcibiades: New Home

==Summary Split?==
We've taken to splitting the episode summaries between the Fleet and Baltar. Am I alone in thinking this isn't the best method? I'd prefer the summary going through the events of the episode chronologically. Especially now that the two storylines are beginning to converge. It was fine in Collaborators, where the two threads didn't effect each other. But now, someone reading the summary encounters a mention of the dead basestar at the end of the Galactica summary before getting to any of the details in the Cylon summary. -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 00:00, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:Personally I think it's fine. It depends on how much interaction there is between the two story lines in the next episode. If they signicantly interact, then this summary may require change, but for now I think it's ok.--[[User:Cohnee|Cohnee]] 06:14, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:Actually, we've been describing each story line separately since "[[33]]". It really makes the story lines easier to keep track of for both the viewer and the editors. However, if there's a better way, I would be interested in a discussion of it. What method or methods would you suggest? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 08:18, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:: I think it's a fine format in most cases. It certainly worked for Collaborators, and it worked well for the Helo arc of Season One. However, in those instances, the main plot and the sides-story didn't interact, so knowing how the Galactica side of the episode pans out before you read what happened to Helo, it isn't a problem. But here we have the Galactica storyline ending with something that was explained in the Cylon storyline. I guess I'm just concerned that some reading it without having seen the episode would be very confused. Something as simple as putting the Cylon half of the summary first I think would clear up any potential confusion, especially considering that nothing in the Galactica story effects the Cylon story. -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 11:56, 8 November 2006 (CST)

== Promotional pictures ==

Look at these pictures: 
http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000kthzq/g248 
http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000kw117/g248 
Where do they come from? I don't remember such scene in "Torn"... -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 01:51, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:P.s. All promo images are also on the wiki. As for those images, when I was uploading new promo images tonight, I noticed those, and I was like... "I never saw them.". if they show up in another episode, I will recategorize them in the media wiki. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:53, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:They may have come from a deleted scene as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 08:07, 8 November 2006 (CST)
::They might have been moved to the next episode "A Measure of Salvation" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:13, 8 November 2006 (CST)

:: Can anyone identify the patch on Baltar's flight suit? It looks like it has a picture of an old style Raider on it. http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000ksya5/g248 -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 11:59, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:::That's the [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/albums/s1waterpromos/normal_BSG04EP_7727CS.JPG standard Raptor patch]. That's the Raptor squadron that Sharon belongs to. We maybe ought to crop some of the patches off uniforms and have a patches and insignias section of the uniforms page. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:06, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:::: Hmm. Odd I never noticed that before. Seen like something I would've seen before. I thought maybe it was squandron, like Primus or The Vigilantes. An article on patches would be interesting. -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:24, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:::::Oh, no. I think you're right. I think that's exactly what it is. I was just saying that was a "normal" squadron patch for a Raptor (as in we've seen it before). If you would be willing to wade through the promo photos and screencaps ([http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/index.php some here as well]) to identify pictures with good patch shots in them, I'd be willing to crop down to the patches and upload them and help start either a new section on [[Uniforms (RDM)]] or a subarticle of that page. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:37, 8 November 2006 (CST)

== Questions? ==
I have no idea how to phrase it or if i remember correctly, but didn't Sharon (athena) start talking incoherently when they jump to the Lions Head? Is she infected? We don't see them jump back... [[User:Puneypunk|Puneypunk]] 06:26, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:No. She wasn't infected. She was shocked at what she saw and quoted scripture. She said "When god's anger awakens, even the mighty shall fall" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:10, 8 November 2006 (CST)

== Helo as XO ==
Surely if he was the XO, Adama would of promoted him to at least Major, if not Colonel, by now? I'm not disputing that Helo is acting as Adama's "eyes and ears" but I'm surpirsed that he is being described as XO.--[[User:Cohnee|Cohnee]] 06:39, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:Rank isn't everything. An officer can also "outrank" someone with a nominally higher rank just by position. Adama probably still plans for Tigh to return some day and has Helo as interim solution. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:09, 8 November 2006 (CST)
::It's quite possible that Helo hasn't been promoted because he hasn't met the minimum time-in-grade for a full Lieutenant yet. Kat's quick rise from Ensign to Lieutenant seems to contradict this, however. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:06, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:::To me, his job seems to be something of a cross between Gaeta's former position and Tigh's. It may be that he fell into his current roll while Galactica was understaffed and it has yet to be formalised or revised back to a more standard one. We have seen that the crew is still readjusting to some extent and I wouldn't be surprised if there are still some adjustments yet to be made. --[[User:Ryan H|Ryan H]] 12:35, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:::I don't think minimum time in-grade is all that important anymore, all things considered. I also think that Helo and Kat are both excellent candidates for Captain, if they aren't already. Kat and Starbuck could be squadron leaders, Apollo could be CAG, and Helo could be Gaeta, since Gaeta is the new Baltar. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:17, 9 November 2006 (CST)

== Origin of the virus ==
Far too speculative to put on the main page, but could the virus have been planted by the other 5 models? Perhaps a split occurred within the Cylons soon after they took human form, and the other 5 have decided to strike at the ones that we know.
If indeed the virus is a hybrid biological / technological nature as surmised in the Questions, it would support the theory of other Cylons having created it. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 13:29, 8 November 2006 (CST)
::Well, if it was placed by the other 5, then it may be logical to asume that the other 5 went off in search of and, possibly, found earth, leaving this "viral pod" behind to ward off the 7. Unfortunately its all wild speculation at this point. --[[User:Vladimir|Vladimir]] 13:34, 8 November 2006 (CST)
If the virus was placed at the Lion's Head by Eathlings to dissuade potential Earth-seekers, it was either placed when they left Kobol a long time ago, or sometime more recently. If they placed it when they left Kobol, that would suggest that it was either an accident that it affected the Cylons negatively, or that they could somehow forsee that the Cylons would be looking for them. Otherwise, it could have been placed more recently by Earthlings (either of Cylon or human extraction), meaning the inhabitants of Earth are aware that Cylons are looking for them, and they don't want the Cylons to find them. --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 18:13, 10 November 2006 (EST)
::Moreover, does this mean that at every one of the 12 constellations, there will be a new anti-Cylon trap? The Cylons won't fall for the virus again, clearly, so the Earthlings, either of the past or currently, would have to have created 12 different deterrents against the Cylons, which should make for some exciting puzzle-solving television. --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 18:16, 10 November 2006 (EST)
:::Erm, no. You are misunderstanding the whole thing about the constellations. The Twelve Colonies don't lie in them or something. They are just random stars seen in apparent groups from Earth, but in reality they are far apart. There is no such thing as "at the constellations".
:::Aside from that I don't really see the point in speculating that the beacon is somehow from Earth. That just creates far too many logic problems. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:27, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::::I see what you are saying, and I thought that too. But then it doesn't make sense that on Baltar's advice, the basestar (that is now infected) jumped to a particular point to check out the Lion's Head, and just by pure coincidence the virus probe was floating right around that location. Moreover, when the humans decided to jump to check out the Lion's Head, they jumped right next to where the basestar had jumped. For some strange reason, both the humans and the Cylons picked the same point in 3 dimensions around the Lion's Head for their jump destination. I agree, it doesn't make sense. But that's how the show is going. Plus, Baltar said the beacon was "human-made." If it's not from the Earthlings, who could have put it there? --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 21:24, 10 November 2006 (EST)
:::::Still a gigantic leap in logic. One doesn't follow from the other. Now you're talking about a different kind of "no sense". Yeah, it's a huge coincidence and was done for dramatic effect. But you can't conclude any greater design from that, or that the beacon came from Earth. If I had to explain it away, I'd say that both jump plots favored this point for astrometric reasons. Sort of like a LaGrange point, where there are the least influences from gravity and the like.
:::::Who made the beacon? Probably the 13th tribe, on their way to Earth. The Cylons think that too, since it makes the most sense. They went along that route, Pythia recorded the journey in what later became the Sacred Scrolls (or part of her records went there). Then some time later a group went back and build the planetarium on Kobol and somehow the Scrolls came into the posession of what later came to be the Colonials (that's a bit weird too, but maybe the returness followed the other tribes). --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:00, 11 November 2006 (CST)

== 5 models (spoilers) ==
On the listed on Season 3 on the front page, one of the articles contained an interview with Moore. {{spoiltext|He mentioned that the other 5 models of Cylons is a secret. They are currently "boxed" and not in use, plus the 7 other cylon models do not know what the other 5 models look like.}}The reasons for this is unclear, but that is the info that Moore was willing to reveal during the interview. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 13:55, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:That's correct, but the answers to questions are generally supposed to be based on aired info. Until that information is shown on the air it's generally a spoiler (and is wrapped in spoiltext like I did above). That's actually something I wasn't aware of, so you just "spoiled" me. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:59, 8 November 2006 (CST)
::Ooh, thanks for that, that confirms my theory on how both the Tricia/Grace/Dean spoilers and the Aaron/Tahmoh spoilers were both right at the same time. I'm glad it was this :) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:05, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:::Btw, do you have a link to this interview? It's possible to put the link (Spoiler covered) in the "questions" Section regarding this topic. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:20, 8 November 2006 (CST)

I would like to see this interview as well. I read the Aaron/Tahmoh interview and it seemed they were just speculating about the boxed thing. They're not Cylons, so how would they know? Tricia, Grace, and the other Cylons were the only actors privvy to "Life Aboard the Base Ship", Ron Moore's Cylon bible. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:21, 9 November 2006 (CST)
::::Apparently there's a link on the [[Season 3]] page. I generally try to avoid spoilers, so that's the best I've got. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:48, 9 November 2006 (CST)

:My bad guys, I think I combined the spoilers from Tricia/Grace/Dean and Aarom/Tahmoh into one during my recollections. The interview I was referring to was the one done by Entertainment Weekly, in which they reveal a lot of the plot in the 2 hour pilot. I think I must have confused the actors' discussion and speculations into the spoilers that Moore revealed. Sorry, guess we're just gonna have to wait and learn about the 5 models the hard way. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 13:20, 9 November 2006 (CST)

== Hybrid's looks ==
''The hybrid's visual look was inspired by the precogs in Minority Report.''
Is that official (ie: mentioned by someone who works on the episode) or a guess? I mean, I can think of a few other things that could've been the inspiration for the Hybrid's look - the pods the humans are placed in by the machines in [[w:The Matrix|The Matrix]] for example. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 22:52, 8 November 2006 (CST)
: Barring an official source, this should be removed or reworded accordingly. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:55, 8 November 2006 (CST)
::It was mentioned in podcast, which this time starred Ron and an entire Cornell University class, sans cigarettes and Scotch. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:22, 9 November 2006 (CST)
:::Yeah, I got it from the podcast. I should have mentioned that, but it was very late... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:11, 9 November 2006 (CST)

== The Ship Who... ==

I thought this series was worth noting here, since it seems to predate any other notions of similar man/machine integration that I've found. (It's certainly more relevant than a PC game.) We all know what a fan Ron Moore is of classic science fiction and I'm sure he's got a few of these on his shelves. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:20, 9 November 2006 (CST)
:Something from the 60s is good. It might be even older, but it's important to point out that the source of the concept lies in "classic" SciFi books and not modern television. What I really hated was a lengthy paragraph about the Shadow vessels in "Babylon 5". I know that lots of B5 fans think that JMS invented lots of SciFi concepts and that all other shows just ripped it off, but it really gave the impression that B5 was somehow source material for the Hybrid, when in fact the shows' writers draw on the same - even older - sources. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:36, 9 November 2006 (CST)
::Concur with Serenity. Man/machine integration is nothing new. Here, we're technically not even talking of a "man" or even a human, but just a biologic computer. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:53, 9 November 2006 (CST)

== Viral vs Biological ==
In the podcast for Torn RDM says:

"The baseship gets there and it, lo and behold, it finds a device. A floating beacon left behind by the [[Thirteenth Tribe]]. Those Cylons pull that beacon onto their ship and an infection spreads through the Cylon baseship. Just something that was physically on the beacon, some bacteria or something that survived. And it proved deadly to everybody on the Cylon baseship."

That seems to answer the questions about its nature (biological) and about who left it. I didn't want to yank the question right away (nor resort to the forum Q&A format), but I thought those questions might best be moved down to analysis with this as the answer (with a podcast cite). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:38, 9 November 2006 (CST)

:I don't really see what the confusing is about anyways. People hear the Cylons ''speculating'' that it might spread to the Resurruction Ship and immediately think that speculation is fact.
:A more valid oberservation is that Raiders and Centurions were incapitated too without a direct vector of attack. But that can very easily be explained by their link to the Hybrid and that they got screwed up when the Hybrid died. I think RDM mentions that Hybrid link too in the podcast. And upon some further thinking, there is a vector with the Raiders, since they are stored on the baseship between deployments --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:25, 9 November 2006 (CST)

== Who is vulnerable to the Virus? ==
First, do we actually know that it only affect Cylons? No human has been exposed to any sort of contact, assuming the Baltar was in an airtight suit. Presumably, if the virus were released on all ships in the Fleet, any hidden Cylon agents would keel over dead. Putting aside the question of wiping out the Cylon race, killing all Cylon agents hidden in the Fleet seems like a good idea, except of course for Athena.
Would President Roslin be affected by the Virus, because of her transfusion from Hera? Would Hera be affected? --[[User:PhoenixDreams|PhoenixDreams]] 15:40, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:I'd say that both humans and Cylons are vulnerable in theory. Teasers for the next episode show a Marine team going to the basestar without any protection. Either they are vulnerable or just very careless. Or more likely, they don't know what happened and don't consider a possible infection with some disease. But it remains to be seen if they'll be infected --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:43, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:I'd also like to echo Serenity's sentiments. Also, much of the Cylons reaction to the virus is more out of fear and ignorance mixed with some common sense. For instance, it makes absolutely no logical sense that a biological virus or bacetria could be transmitted from a body into the resurrection ship, since the download process is ''technological'' in nature. (Therefore, the illness or physical sickness itself would not be transferred, merely the memory of having it.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:52, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:In addition, Baltar was in a [[flight suit]], which is air tight. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:57, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::As you said they act of fear. They don't know what they are dealing with and speculate that it might be transmitted with downloading (someone even says "could"). But they take precautions and keep the Resurrection Ship out of range. That doesn't mean that we should think that it can in fact be transmitted that way. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:05, 10 November 2006 (CST)

== New Home ==

I have not found more than a passing remark on this comment by Model 3:
"We have decided that earth is going to be our new home" or something along those lines.

Has anyone else (especially those of us familiar with Frank Herbert's Dune series. And I am talking about the last of the series actually written by the original author. In this book the inhabitants of the original human settled part of the universe were invaded by their relatives from the Scattering.

The point is that these very successful conquerors are actually fleeing from another predatory force.

If the Cylons have decided that Earth would be their new home, they must have been forcefully evicted from their former home.

I just thought this line of reasoning might contribute to our capacity to theorize.

--[[User:Alcibiades|Alcibiades]] 06:55, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Sherman Cottle/Archive 1

2006-12-21T21:12:02Z

Alcibiades: Favorite character

Am I the only one who thinks cottle is a cylon?--Glaucon

:No, he's apparently well known, has been there for years, and seems to (at least) have been old enough to have been in the Cylon War. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:25, 26 February 2006 (EST)

:I appreciate your response. Particularly since, having glanced at several of the other discussions, you apparently know the subjects far better than I and appear to be somewhat of a scholar. Nevertheless, having now glanced at the page about such speculation, I believe some of the assumptions to be unwarrented or at least weakly supported. The most obvious being apparent age. ( forgive me if I don't give citations, but I am remembering rather than running them down and I believe your familiarity will make it unncessary.) I saw it mentioed at one point that the cyrlon models represent archtypes, a father/wiseman/partiarch (perhaps even shaman/doctor) arhetype would possibly be created old as would a martriarch/etc.etc. ( I am unaware if there is any evidence one way or another that they physically age with time, but supposing arguendo that they do, this maight account for the seeming greater ages of earlier numbered models than that of newer models - though it would also imply that those downloaded at death actually enter "unused" rather than new bodies, six revives in a body just like her's not a younger version of it.) I also don't find the number or years agrument to be compelling as far as I recall the only statement on how the cylons have been around is in given by Six to Balter and implied by Sharon. Six is clearly an unrealiable narrator, both through manipulation and perhaps through knowledge. All we know for sure that she can speak on is her own time since insertion and we cant necessarily trust that she is honest about that. --[[User:Glaucon|Glaucon]] 13:29, 2 March 2006 (CST) Gluacon

A) Number Six was being honest to other Cylons in "Downloaded", B) While Doctor Cottle's PHYSICAL age doesn't really matter--yes, as seen in the upcoming Cavil-model, they can be old--what I mean is that Doctor Cottle has apparently been serving for many years aboard Galactica and other ships and is ''well-known''. Cylons would tend to be people whose past cannot be confirmed. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:47, 2 March 2006 (CST)

: Thank you again for your response. In Re A: was she speaking of her own tenure on caprica and if so why would that have any implications for the existence of other models and their time lines? Do we assume she is privy to all the informaiton of the cylons ( clearly dangerouse in an infiltrator who is subject to torture.) In re B: clearly my objections to this are bound up in the answer to A.--Glaucon

We don't, but BattlestarWIki has pieced it together that A) Caprica-Six was on Caprica for 2 years, and Galactica-Boomer was on Galactica for 2 years (stated by Adama in [[The Farm]])). We actually think infiltration could have started before then, but "wide-scale" infiltration only started 2 years ago. Regardless, there is very little information that would support Cottle as a Cylon, other than just random accusations. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:37, 2 March 2006 (CST)

: I agree that there is nothing overt wich is why I ask about disqualifiers. Many of the things I am considering are extrinsic to him, the fact that we "know" there are a number of other cylons in the fleet, that it is likely there is at least one with a high enough level of access to leave notes in adama's quarteres about the number of cylon models, that other than into the command structure itself, the doctors position would be an ideal place for an agent. Brain chip- Batlar is just nuts, has an undetectable chip in his head, or the doctor did not tell him of the positive result. In Flesh and Blood, Conoy displys a great deal of knowledge of Kara's mental state and personal psychology, while this could have been gathered other ways, her medical records and the observation the doctor was able to make of her in the wake of her injury seem more likely candidate that the information even of others like sharon as Kara doesn't seem to really be the "shareing" type. Cottle seems protective of sharon and her child and his reaction to the attempted rape implies that he sees them as more than machines ( this creates an interesting, though by no means fatal, dichotomy between his advocacy of human abortion, I'm pro-choice myself, but one of those Gemonons could argue that he values cylon life over human life). He seems to encourage dissention on issues that, while they may not endanger the fleeet directly, due keep things tense and act as wedges betweeen the government and the people as well as between adama and the president -helping Roslin escape captivity, performing abortions of unclear legality and in such a way as to be caught at it, then pushing asylum when adama tries to sweep it under the rug - in each case aiding or stimulating the conflict and then letting others due the fighting and reap the animosity. He is ideally situated to gather information and to be a low-level provacatur. Wrong, perhaps, but certaily not a random accusation. --[[User:Glaucon|Glaucon]] 20:32, 2 March 2006 (CST)

::Still just looking for things were there is no incriminating pattern. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:25, 2 March 2006 (CST)

::Regarding the note... it always seemed to me that we were meant to believe that Baltar left the note in Adama's quarters, given that he was the only one told (on screen anyway) that there were twelve models. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:41, 2 March 2006 (CST)

: Good point, thank you. I didn't think that simply becuase he does not seem inclined to be helpful and I think he would be terrified of being caught leaving it and questioned as to the origin of his knowledge, but it is certainly a possibility. --[[User:Glaucon|Glaucon]] 20:49, 2 March 2006 (CST)
==Uniform Picture==

Question: Can anyone get screencaps of Dr. Cottle in a Major's Uniform from Downloaded? I don't think Apollo's quick promotion made him change his uniform in Captain's Hand, so I think that here is the first time we see what a Major's uniform actually looks like: But my problem is that it is dark: does the Major's uniform have a white line, or a gold line? I cannot tell. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:25, 26 February 2006 (EST)
: If Cottle has a different uniform because he's a major, doesn't this mean that Lee did as well during his tenure as Major? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 07:40, 26 February 2006 (EST)
:: Cottle might not have a normal Major's uniform. I'm postulating that there might be a special "Medic/Doctor" uniform that he wears. Plus, based on the character himself, he really couldn't give two craps about rank and the trappings thereof. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 01:18, 28 August 2006 (CDT)
:::He's actually in a regular uniform a few times. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:24, 28 August 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm still right about Cottle not giving two craps about rank and the trappings thereof! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 02:13, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::Yes, you are. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:08, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

== Cottle's First Name ==

According to two websites that are now shut off, Major/Doctor Cottle's name is "George" or "Daniel". Is their any source that can find him a first name?--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 3 October 2006
:Try asking Bradley Thompson at [[BW:OC]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:33, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
:Hi, Corey. We're honored to have some crew of the show who answers some questions of the show. They may not answer your question because it might reveal something of future episodes. However, past episode data might be revealed. Visit the [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques]] article to see other questions or post your own. Remember to keep your question brief and succient. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:41, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

== Favorite character ==

I have not seen any favorite character remarks on any topic. Not that I have sought for one exhaustively. Anyways I thought I'd start one.

The way he handles himself around man of higher rank and 'heroes' is just superb. He is hands down the coolest human in this universe.

--[[User:Alcibiades|Alcibiades]] 15:12, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2006-12-16T22:11:47Z

Alcibiades: /* WTF moment */