Talk:Humanoid Cylon/Archive4: Difference between revisions
Discussion page of Humanoid Cylon/Archive4
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::::Do you have some specifics about the New Caprica vote? I must admit I find what happened unclear. What I read was that all the copies of a model have always been unanimous, but Boomer broke that rule. Though Sharon/Athena obviously is an even bigger break of the rules than Boomer, so I am not sure why she was so shocking.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC) | ::::Do you have some specifics about the New Caprica vote? I must admit I find what happened unclear. What I read was that all the copies of a model have always been unanimous, but Boomer broke that rule. Though Sharon/Athena obviously is an even bigger break of the rules than Boomer, so I am not sure why she was so shocking.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::::In "Precipice" they take a vote about cracking down in the insurgency. Every model present says "'''We''' agree", and at one point Caprica-Six says to another Six "Most of us do, anyway". So it isn't unanimous there. As they are individuals with sometimes different views, that probably isn't practical either. For me, the issue is that Boomer votes against her model line. More Eights votes against reconfiguration, but she - as the apparent spokesperson - says yes. Though why they don't just use the total vote if they know it, isn't that clear with this interpretation, but that Boomer's vote would supersede all the other Eights' votes doesn't make sense either. Unless she somehow has the power to speak for all Eights. And that's also what we have noted on [[Precipice#Analysis]] -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 22:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC) | :::::In "Precipice" they take a vote about cracking down in the insurgency. Every model present says "'''We''' agree", and at one point Caprica-Six says to another Six "Most of us do, anyway". So it isn't unanimous there. As they are individuals with sometimes different views, that probably isn't practical either. For me, the issue is that Boomer votes against her model line. More Eights votes against reconfiguration, but she - as the apparent spokesperson - says yes. Though why they don't just use the total vote if they know it, isn't that clear with this interpretation, but that Boomer's vote would supersede all the other Eights' votes doesn't make sense either. Unless she somehow has the power to speak for all Eights. And that's also what we have noted on [[Precipice#Analysis]] -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 22:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC) | ||
:What we have seen over the course of the show is the gradual breakup of Cylon society, owing largly to the human influence upon them. To me the line "Consensus always used to be so easy" (I forget the episode) implies that disputes and divisions were rare (possibly non-existent). "There's no law, there's no edict" to me implies that the Cylons, believing themselves to be without sin, hadn't constructed a social system that could adequately deal with such disputes. In particular the boxing of D'Anna made a system which was just about tenable into one that [[Cylon Civil War|fails absolutely]]. My suspicion is that there's no written law that says that Boomer could or could not do what she did, but it was sufficient for Cavil to cynically claim a majority, morally justified or not. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 22:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 22:17, 28 April 2008
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Number of Cylons
Sorry if this is already in the article (I couldn't see a reference to it) but I think there are an equal number of each Cylon model.
Spoilers for season 4, episode 2 follow:
Since there is a deadlock with the vote between the 7 Cylon models, we can infer that there are as many Ones, Fours, and Fives as there are Twos, Sixes, and Eights.
Either there are an equal number of the pro/anti-lobotomy Cylons models _just_ on the baseships concerned with the Raiders (since it would be unlikely for _all_ the Cylons to vote, but this implies that there is a 'rule' against, say, a Six trying to find an equivalent to Boomer on another baseship), or _all_ Cylons voted and there are an equal number the pro/anti models.
I think it's safe to infer that if there are equal numbers of pro/anti models, then there are equal numbers of each Cylon model on each baseship (this implies you can't have 'outside' voters), though I don't think it too much of a stretch to say there are an equal number of Cylon models. FredTheDeadHead 10:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- That's not how the voting process works. First they vote within their models to determine the total vote for one model, then that vote is tallied with the votes of the other models. It's not that each individual copy has one vote towards the end result, but only towards the model. The copies can only influence how their model votes in the final vote. Sort of like the US electoral college. -- Serenity 11:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I understand your explanation, and I'm a Limey so I don't understand US politics too well. In 'Six of One' a Cavil says that Boomer has "voted to reconfigure", so each copy has a vote to spend. Do you mean that each copies vote goes toward determining the model's consensus, rather than the decisions? So Boomer's vote would put the Eight's in a state of contention, so they have no vote since there isn't a consensus? FredTheDeadHead 12:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- Boomer goes against her model's wishes. The other Eights voted no, but Boomer goes against that and votes yes. That's why the others make such a fuss about her decision. That there is only one vote per model in the final vote, which in turn is determined by another voting process within each model was previously established during the New Caprica arc. -- Serenity 13:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- Do you have some specifics about the New Caprica vote? I must admit I find what happened unclear. What I read was that all the copies of a model have always been unanimous, but Boomer broke that rule. Though Sharon/Athena obviously is an even bigger break of the rules than Boomer, so I am not sure why she was so shocking.--Bradtem 21:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- In "Precipice" they take a vote about cracking down in the insurgency. Every model present says "We agree", and at one point Caprica-Six says to another Six "Most of us do, anyway". So it isn't unanimous there. As they are individuals with sometimes different views, that probably isn't practical either. For me, the issue is that Boomer votes against her model line. More Eights votes against reconfiguration, but she - as the apparent spokesperson - says yes. Though why they don't just use the total vote if they know it, isn't that clear with this interpretation, but that Boomer's vote would supersede all the other Eights' votes doesn't make sense either. Unless she somehow has the power to speak for all Eights. And that's also what we have noted on Precipice#Analysis -- Serenity 22:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- Do you have some specifics about the New Caprica vote? I must admit I find what happened unclear. What I read was that all the copies of a model have always been unanimous, but Boomer broke that rule. Though Sharon/Athena obviously is an even bigger break of the rules than Boomer, so I am not sure why she was so shocking.--Bradtem 21:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- Boomer goes against her model's wishes. The other Eights voted no, but Boomer goes against that and votes yes. That's why the others make such a fuss about her decision. That there is only one vote per model in the final vote, which in turn is determined by another voting process within each model was previously established during the New Caprica arc. -- Serenity 13:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I understand your explanation, and I'm a Limey so I don't understand US politics too well. In 'Six of One' a Cavil says that Boomer has "voted to reconfigure", so each copy has a vote to spend. Do you mean that each copies vote goes toward determining the model's consensus, rather than the decisions? So Boomer's vote would put the Eight's in a state of contention, so they have no vote since there isn't a consensus? FredTheDeadHead 12:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- What we have seen over the course of the show is the gradual breakup of Cylon society, owing largly to the human influence upon them. To me the line "Consensus always used to be so easy" (I forget the episode) implies that disputes and divisions were rare (possibly non-existent). "There's no law, there's no edict" to me implies that the Cylons, believing themselves to be without sin, hadn't constructed a social system that could adequately deal with such disputes. In particular the boxing of D'Anna made a system which was just about tenable into one that fails absolutely. My suspicion is that there's no written law that says that Boomer could or could not do what she did, but it was sufficient for Cavil to cynically claim a majority, morally justified or not. OTW 22:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)