Talk:Small arms/Archive 1 - Revision history

Darthpaul at 14:28, 12 February 2009

2009-02-12T14:28:05Z

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	::::: Well, I was wrong- the firing squad killed Zarek ("Blood On The Scales"). But Lee/"Apollo" was there! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)		::::: Well, I was wrong- the firing squad killed Zarek ("Blood On The Scales"). But Lee/"Apollo" was there! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

	~~== Not a Blade Runner ==~~

	I wish I could find Ron Moore's commentary wherein he refers to the original sidearm as being a copy of the pistol from Blade Runner- 'cos it's not! That pistol was actually built out of a Steyr-Mannlicher RIFLE action, cut down and heavily redesigned, which then had a Charter Arms Bulldog revolver added into it, resulting in a firing prop gun. The whole fascinating process is described and pictured by Phil Steinschneider on his site, http://props.steinschneider.com/blade_runner/bldrunbl.htm . Which disk is the Ron Moore commentary found on? Also, what's the title of the video blog with the prop discussion where the "Colonial Clamshell" is named? I must have miscounted, because D. Eicks 18th blog as far as I could find featured one of the production designers, not the propmaster.[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

	~~::Boy do I look like a mope. I somehow missed the fact that this has already been discussed further up the page. Sorry!! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 20:39, 30 January 2009 (UTC)~~

	== Speculations on the Season 1 Sidearm ==		== Speculations on the Season 1 Sidearm ==

Darthpaul at 14:24, 12 February 2009

2009-02-12T14:24:04Z

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	I suppose we'll never really know, will we?		I suppose we'll never really know, will we?
	[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 20:34, 30 January 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 20:34, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
			:Then again I could be wrong. I've just seen a working Season 1 sidearm prop where the cylinder swings out as normal for most modern revolvers, the clamshell is a 2-part affair with one part attached to the swing-arm in front of the cylinder. It swings out along with the cylinder for reloading. There's no in-universe reason that it couldn't work like this, I simply never noticed any gaps in the photos I've seen that would indicate where two halves met. Sign of a really well-made prop! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 14:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Darthpaul at 17:27, 8 February 2009

2009-02-08T17:27:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:27, 8 February 2009
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	:::: And of course you can't kill Richard Hatch in his very first appearance! My prediction- I expect Lee Adama to end up killing Tom Zarek, just to satisfy our sense of irony- "Apollo" killing "Apollo" (grins and drinks some coffee). [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:42, 27 January 2009 (UTC)		:::: And of course you can't kill Richard Hatch in his very first appearance! My prediction- I expect Lee Adama to end up killing Tom Zarek, just to satisfy our sense of irony- "Apollo" killing "Apollo" (grins and drinks some coffee). [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:42, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

			::::: Well, I was wrong- the firing squad killed Zarek ("Blood On The Scales"). But Lee/"Apollo" was there! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

	== Not a Blade Runner ==		== Not a Blade Runner ==

Darthpaul at 20:39, 30 January 2009

2009-01-30T20:39:18Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:39, 30 January 2009
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	I wish I could find Ron Moore's commentary wherein he refers to the original sidearm as being a copy of the pistol from Blade Runner- 'cos it's not! That pistol was actually built out of a Steyr-Mannlicher RIFLE action, cut down and heavily redesigned, which then had a Charter Arms Bulldog revolver added into it, resulting in a firing prop gun. The whole fascinating process is described and pictured by Phil Steinschneider on his site, http://props.steinschneider.com/blade_runner/bldrunbl.htm . Which disk is the Ron Moore commentary found on? Also, what's the title of the video blog with the prop discussion where the "Colonial Clamshell" is named? I must have miscounted, because D. Eicks 18th blog as far as I could find featured one of the production designers, not the propmaster.[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)		I wish I could find Ron Moore's commentary wherein he refers to the original sidearm as being a copy of the pistol from Blade Runner- 'cos it's not! That pistol was actually built out of a Steyr-Mannlicher RIFLE action, cut down and heavily redesigned, which then had a Charter Arms Bulldog revolver added into it, resulting in a firing prop gun. The whole fascinating process is described and pictured by Phil Steinschneider on his site, http://props.steinschneider.com/blade_runner/bldrunbl.htm . Which disk is the Ron Moore commentary found on? Also, what's the title of the video blog with the prop discussion where the "Colonial Clamshell" is named? I must have miscounted, because D. Eicks 18th blog as far as I could find featured one of the production designers, not the propmaster.[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

			::Boy do I look like a mope. I somehow missed the fact that this has already been discussed further up the page. Sorry!! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 20:39, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

	== Speculations on the Season 1 Sidearm ==		== Speculations on the Season 1 Sidearm ==

Darthpaul: /* Speculations on the Season 1 Sidearm */ new section

2009-01-30T20:34:30Z

Speculations on the Season 1 Sidearm: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:34, 30 January 2009
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	I wish I could find Ron Moore's commentary wherein he refers to the original sidearm as being a copy of the pistol from Blade Runner- 'cos it's not! That pistol was actually built out of a Steyr-Mannlicher RIFLE action, cut down and heavily redesigned, which then had a Charter Arms Bulldog revolver added into it, resulting in a firing prop gun. The whole fascinating process is described and pictured by Phil Steinschneider on his site, http://props.steinschneider.com/blade_runner/bldrunbl.htm . Which disk is the Ron Moore commentary found on? Also, what's the title of the video blog with the prop discussion where the "Colonial Clamshell" is named? I must have miscounted, because D. Eicks 18th blog as far as I could find featured one of the production designers, not the propmaster.[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)		I wish I could find Ron Moore's commentary wherein he refers to the original sidearm as being a copy of the pistol from Blade Runner- 'cos it's not! That pistol was actually built out of a Steyr-Mannlicher RIFLE action, cut down and heavily redesigned, which then had a Charter Arms Bulldog revolver added into it, resulting in a firing prop gun. The whole fascinating process is described and pictured by Phil Steinschneider on his site, http://props.steinschneider.com/blade_runner/bldrunbl.htm . Which disk is the Ron Moore commentary found on? Also, what's the title of the video blog with the prop discussion where the "Colonial Clamshell" is named? I must have miscounted, because D. Eicks 18th blog as far as I could find featured one of the production designers, not the propmaster.[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

			== Speculations on the Season 1 Sidearm ==

			The operation of most of the weapons used on BSG are pretty self-explanatory, since they are just tricked-out/ futurized versions of a real-world weapon. The Season 1 sidearm (aka Colonial Clamshell) is a little different, since it is built around a standard revolver, yet the "shell" of the weapon hides almost all traces of the revolver cylinder and reloading mechanism, and makes it impossible for the cylinder to swing out to the side. Obviously, for filming, one would remove the shell, swing out the cylinder, load blank rounds, close it up and replace the shell- but in the world of BSG there wouldn't be time for that in the heat of a gunfight. Since we've never seen this gun being reloaded on screen, I have come up with some speculations on how it operates as a real weapon "in-universe".
			The hinge on the bottom of the frame, forward of the trigger guard, is the key to the whole thing. It seems clear that this is a top-break revolver design, similar to the British Webley pistols. For reloading, an internal latch is released, the cylinder and barrel assembly of the weapon hinge forward bringing the cylinder up and out of the shell; empty cartridges would be ejected, fresh rounds inserted, and the whole thing swung back down to latch shut. The top rail would bring the cylinder up with it, disengaging it from the revolver mechanism.
			I concluded that the main part of the shell must remain attached to the frame, or else there wouldn't be enough room to unload and reload. The cylinder (barely visible through a gap in the shell) must lift clear of the clamshell for reloading. The under-barrel launcher would swing down at the same time, as the whole thing is a solid assembly. As we have seen, the launcher is loaded by just stuffing a round in the front, so no further mechanism is needed there. There is a tiny metal protrusion on the frame just above the trigger, visible in the photo of the left side of the gun- this might be the cylinder latch, although it seems too small. We have seen (in Valley of Darkness) that the large switch on the upper shell is a safety- it might also be the cylinder release; perhaps it is a multi-purpose lever which can also select between the standard cylinder and explosive launcher?
			I suppose we'll never really know, will we?
			[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 20:34, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Darthpaul: /* Not a Blade Runner */ new section

2009-01-27T17:52:54Z

Not a Blade Runner: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:52, 27 January 2009
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	:::: And of course you can't kill Richard Hatch in his very first appearance! My prediction- I expect Lee Adama to end up killing Tom Zarek, just to satisfy our sense of irony- "Apollo" killing "Apollo" (grins and drinks some coffee). [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:42, 27 January 2009 (UTC)		:::: And of course you can't kill Richard Hatch in his very first appearance! My prediction- I expect Lee Adama to end up killing Tom Zarek, just to satisfy our sense of irony- "Apollo" killing "Apollo" (grins and drinks some coffee). [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:42, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

			== Not a Blade Runner ==

			I wish I could find Ron Moore's commentary wherein he refers to the original sidearm as being a copy of the pistol from Blade Runner- 'cos it's not! That pistol was actually built out of a Steyr-Mannlicher RIFLE action, cut down and heavily redesigned, which then had a Charter Arms Bulldog revolver added into it, resulting in a firing prop gun. The whole fascinating process is described and pictured by Phil Steinschneider on his site, http://props.steinschneider.com/blade_runner/bldrunbl.htm . Which disk is the Ron Moore commentary found on? Also, what's the title of the video blog with the prop discussion where the "Colonial Clamshell" is named? I must have miscounted, because D. Eicks 18th blog as far as I could find featured one of the production designers, not the propmaster.[[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Darthpaul at 17:42, 27 January 2009

2009-01-27T17:42:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:42, 27 January 2009
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	:::Yeah, well it goes without saying they went for drama over accuracy, as she'd be far more likely to use a red dot or other similar reticle, or if she really wanted a projected beam she'd use IR so people wouldn't see it without night vision goggles, etc. The fact that she probably could have made the shot open sighted notwithstanding. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 22:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)		:::Yeah, well it goes without saying they went for drama over accuracy, as she'd be far more likely to use a red dot or other similar reticle, or if she really wanted a projected beam she'd use IR so people wouldn't see it without night vision goggles, etc. The fact that she probably could have made the shot open sighted notwithstanding. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 22:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

	:::: And of course you can't kill Richard Hatch in his very first appearance! My prediction- I expect Lee Adama to end up killing Tom Zarek, just to satisfy our sense of irony- "Apollo" killing "Apollo" (grins and drinks some coffee).		:::: And of course you can't kill Richard Hatch in his very first appearance! My prediction- I expect Lee Adama to end up killing Tom Zarek, just to satisfy our sense of irony- "Apollo" killing "Apollo" (grins and drinks some coffee). [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:42, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Darthpaul at 17:39, 27 January 2009

2009-01-27T17:39:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:39, 27 January 2009
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	:::Yeah, well it goes without saying they went for drama over accuracy, as she'd be far more likely to use a red dot or other similar reticle, or if she really wanted a projected beam she'd use IR so people wouldn't see it without night vision goggles, etc. The fact that she probably could have made the shot open sighted notwithstanding. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 22:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)		:::Yeah, well it goes without saying they went for drama over accuracy, as she'd be far more likely to use a red dot or other similar reticle, or if she really wanted a projected beam she'd use IR so people wouldn't see it without night vision goggles, etc. The fact that she probably could have made the shot open sighted notwithstanding. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 22:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

			:::: And of course you can't kill Richard Hatch in his very first appearance! My prediction- I expect Lee Adama to end up killing Tom Zarek, just to satisfy our sense of irony- "Apollo" killing "Apollo" (grins and drinks some coffee).

Steelviper: /* CX-4 in "Bastille Day?" */

2009-01-26T22:09:48Z

CX-4 in "Bastille Day?"

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	::Hey Steelviper- Check out 494.jpg on the same site, it's a shot of Kara on the left along with two Marines stalking through the ship during their infiltration. The Marine on the right is definitely armed with a heavily-tricked-out P-90. Look at the top of the weapon, you can see the tell-tale horizontal magazine. Granted, you can't really see what Starbuck is holding in this shot (looks more like a handgun, doesn't it?) but I assure you she fires this same weapon later on. BTW, it's a pity she switched on the laser dot sight just before pulling the trigger, giving Apollo the warning to push Tom Zarek out of the way, huh? I mean, if he hadn't seen a red dot appear on Zarek, Zarek would have been dead, and given the developements in the series (especially last Friday's "The Disquiet That Follows My Soul") she would have saved our heroes a lot of trouble! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)		::Hey Steelviper- Check out 494.jpg on the same site, it's a shot of Kara on the left along with two Marines stalking through the ship during their infiltration. The Marine on the right is definitely armed with a heavily-tricked-out P-90. Look at the top of the weapon, you can see the tell-tale horizontal magazine. Granted, you can't really see what Starbuck is holding in this shot (looks more like a handgun, doesn't it?) but I assure you she fires this same weapon later on. BTW, it's a pity she switched on the laser dot sight just before pulling the trigger, giving Apollo the warning to push Tom Zarek out of the way, huh? I mean, if he hadn't seen a red dot appear on Zarek, Zarek would have been dead, and given the developements in the series (especially last Friday's "The Disquiet That Follows My Soul") she would have saved our heroes a lot of trouble! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

			:::Well, I had seen that image, but not looked at it closely. I played with the midtones here: <nowiki>http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/steel_viper/BSG/494.jpg</nowiki> and it looks like she's carrying a P-90 with an empty rail on top in that shot. It DOES look like a handgun due to the bullpup configuration, but you can see a little of the buttstock in her shoulder on my image. The rail-barrel on the business end seems to match the rail-barrel of the guys next to her (outside of the red dot that they have on their rails). Care to take a look at my "enhanced" pic and see if you agree?

			:::Yeah, well it goes without saying they went for drama over accuracy, as she'd be far more likely to use a red dot or other similar reticle, or if she really wanted a projected beam she'd use IR so people wouldn't see it without night vision goggles, etc. The fact that she probably could have made the shot open sighted notwithstanding. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 22:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Darthpaul at 17:51, 26 January 2009

2009-01-26T17:51:21Z

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	Just finished watching [[Bastille Day]], and I don't think that's a CX-4 Starbuck was using- in fact I don't think the carbine was being used by anybody until season 2. Looked to me like a P-90 in her hands, same as all the Marines were carrying. Interesting scope mounted on the top rail, plus the silencer/barrel extension, combine to change the look of the SMG so it's harder to recognize, but I'm pretty sure (99%) that it's a P-90 and not a CX-4. [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 16:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)		Just finished watching [[Bastille Day]], and I don't think that's a CX-4 Starbuck was using- in fact I don't think the carbine was being used by anybody until season 2. Looked to me like a P-90 in her hands, same as all the Marines were carrying. Interesting scope mounted on the top rail, plus the silencer/barrel extension, combine to change the look of the SMG so it's harder to recognize, but I'm pretty sure (99%) that it's a P-90 and not a CX-4. [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 16:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
	:I had a hard time getting a good shot of what she was shooting, but the best I could find online was 572.jpg on bsg-caps.com (I'm refraining from hotlinking out of respect to them... you can check it out yourself). It shows her standing near a railing and aiming the weapon. From what I can see in that pic, I'd tend to agree that it's not a CX-4 (and it makes sense that it'd be at a season switch when they'd start routinely using a new weapon type), but it's so loaded down with lights, slings, and sights that I really wouldn't feel confident identifying it as anything. A heavily modified P-90 would be more of a process of elimination than a good solid ID, unless somebody else can get a shot with a better angle. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 18:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)		:I had a hard time getting a good shot of what she was shooting, but the best I could find online was 572.jpg on bsg-caps.com (I'm refraining from hotlinking out of respect to them... you can check it out yourself). It shows her standing near a railing and aiming the weapon. From what I can see in that pic, I'd tend to agree that it's not a CX-4 (and it makes sense that it'd be at a season switch when they'd start routinely using a new weapon type), but it's so loaded down with lights, slings, and sights that I really wouldn't feel confident identifying it as anything. A heavily modified P-90 would be more of a process of elimination than a good solid ID, unless somebody else can get a shot with a better angle. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 18:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

			::Hey Steelviper- Check out 494.jpg on the same site, it's a shot of Kara on the left along with two Marines stalking through the ship during their infiltration. The Marine on the right is definitely armed with a heavily-tricked-out P-90. Look at the top of the weapon, you can see the tell-tale horizontal magazine. Granted, you can't really see what Starbuck is holding in this shot (looks more like a handgun, doesn't it?) but I assure you she fires this same weapon later on. BTW, it's a pity she switched on the laser dot sight just before pulling the trigger, giving Apollo the warning to push Tom Zarek out of the way, huh? I mean, if he hadn't seen a red dot appear on Zarek, Zarek would have been dead, and given the developements in the series (especially last Friday's "The Disquiet That Follows My Soul") she would have saved our heroes a lot of trouble! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:51, 26 January 2009
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	Just finished watching [[Bastille Day]], and I don't think that's a CX-4 Starbuck was using- in fact I don't think the carbine was being used by anybody until season 2. Looked to me like a P-90 in her hands, same as all the Marines were carrying. Interesting scope mounted on the top rail, plus the silencer/barrel extension, combine to change the look of the SMG so it's harder to recognize, but I'm pretty sure (99%) that it's a P-90 and not a CX-4. [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 16:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)		Just finished watching [[Bastille Day]], and I don't think that's a CX-4 Starbuck was using- in fact I don't think the carbine was being used by anybody until season 2. Looked to me like a P-90 in her hands, same as all the Marines were carrying. Interesting scope mounted on the top rail, plus the silencer/barrel extension, combine to change the look of the SMG so it's harder to recognize, but I'm pretty sure (99%) that it's a P-90 and not a CX-4. [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 16:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
	:I had a hard time getting a good shot of what she was shooting, but the best I could find online was 572.jpg on bsg-caps.com (I'm refraining from hotlinking out of respect to them... you can check it out yourself). It shows her standing near a railing and aiming the weapon. From what I can see in that pic, I'd tend to agree that it's not a CX-4 (and it makes sense that it'd be at a season switch when they'd start routinely using a new weapon type), but it's so loaded down with lights, slings, and sights that I really wouldn't feel confident identifying it as anything. A heavily modified P-90 would be more of a process of elimination than a good solid ID, unless somebody else can get a shot with a better angle. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 18:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)		:I had a hard time getting a good shot of what she was shooting, but the best I could find online was 572.jpg on bsg-caps.com (I'm refraining from hotlinking out of respect to them... you can check it out yourself). It shows her standing near a railing and aiming the weapon. From what I can see in that pic, I'd tend to agree that it's not a CX-4 (and it makes sense that it'd be at a season switch when they'd start routinely using a new weapon type), but it's so loaded down with lights, slings, and sights that I really wouldn't feel confident identifying it as anything. A heavily modified P-90 would be more of a process of elimination than a good solid ID, unless somebody else can get a shot with a better angle. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 18:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

			::Hey Steelviper- Check out 494.jpg on the same site, it's a shot of Kara on the left along with two Marines stalking through the ship during their infiltration. The Marine on the right is definitely armed with a heavily-tricked-out P-90. Look at the top of the weapon, you can see the tell-tale horizontal magazine. Granted, you can't really see what Starbuck is holding in this shot (looks more like a handgun, doesn't it?) but I assure you she fires this same weapon later on. BTW, it's a pity she switched on the laser dot sight just before pulling the trigger, giving Apollo the warning to push Tom Zarek out of the way, huh? I mean, if he hadn't seen a red dot appear on Zarek, Zarek would have been dead, and given the developements in the series (especially last Friday's "The Disquiet That Follows My Soul") she would have saved our heroes a lot of trouble! [[User:Darthpaul\|Darthpaul]] 17:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)