Talk:Red Line/Archive 1 - Revision history

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

2020-04-11T03:58:18Z

Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

Flow talk page manager: Flow talk page manager moved page Talk:Red Line to Talk:Red Line/Archive 1 without leaving a redirect: Conversion of wikitext talk to Structured Discussions from Talk:Red Line

2020-03-26T01:36:38Z

Flow talk page manager moved page Talk:Red Line to Talk:Red Line/Archive 1 without leaving a redirect: Conversion of wikitext talk to Structured Discussions from Talk:Red Line

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Mithril2098: /* Specifics */

2019-11-09T08:39:39Z

Specifics

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	:Welcome, Rapturous. It's inferred as the ship's maximum range to calculate a safe jump based on known coordinates as well as the relative power or efficiency of the jump engines to a lesser degree. Without any coordinates, a [[blind jump]] occurs. With bad coordinates, disaster is possible as well by collision. Reference the episodes "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" where Starbuck is able to return to Caprica with only one jump using her captured [[Cylon Raider (RDM)\|Raider]] (the number of jumps needed by the Fleet would be many more based on both the civilian ship's abilities as well as ''Galactica'' and her ability to calculate a jump safe for everyone). Cylons are living computers and can make immensely long and precise jumps with their technology. The Colonials use [[Sharon Agathon\|Caprica-Valerii]]'s ability to calculate a series of jumps to Caprica again for a rescue mission for the [[Caprica Resistance]] using more Cylon hardware, in this case, using [[Heavy Raider]] [[avionics]] as the nav computer in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]". On the last jump, one of the [[Raptor]]s has a miscalculation and jumps (materializes) ''inside'' a mountain. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 20:05, 27 July 2007 (CDT)		:Welcome, Rapturous. It's inferred as the ship's maximum range to calculate a safe jump based on known coordinates as well as the relative power or efficiency of the jump engines to a lesser degree. Without any coordinates, a [[blind jump]] occurs. With bad coordinates, disaster is possible as well by collision. Reference the episodes "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" where Starbuck is able to return to Caprica with only one jump using her captured [[Cylon Raider (RDM)\|Raider]] (the number of jumps needed by the Fleet would be many more based on both the civilian ship's abilities as well as ''Galactica'' and her ability to calculate a jump safe for everyone). Cylons are living computers and can make immensely long and precise jumps with their technology. The Colonials use [[Sharon Agathon\|Caprica-Valerii]]'s ability to calculate a series of jumps to Caprica again for a rescue mission for the [[Caprica Resistance]] using more Cylon hardware, in this case, using [[Heavy Raider]] [[avionics]] as the nav computer in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]". On the last jump, one of the [[Raptor]]s has a miscalculation and jumps (materializes) ''inside'' a mountain. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 20:05, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
			::presumably the Redline distance is variable depending on the type of jump being made. A jump meant to end up near a particular planet would require fairly accurate information about that body's orbital motion and its interaction with the gravitational effects of the other major bodies in the system. jumping into the void between planets ought to require much less specific data and thus allow a longer jump. Which might well be why Adama chose the Prolmar Sector as a target on that first jump of the exodus. while there is no real world definition for sector in terms of stellar geography yet, in science fiction it commonly used to refer to a region of space several lightyears across, in much the same way that one might refer to grid squares on a map. Most of a sector would thus be empty space between stars. With cubic lightyears of empty space and the odds of coming out on or near anything larger than a speck of dust infinitesimal, it wouldn't matter if the calculations drop you a little off target. [[User:Mithril2098\|Mithril2098]] ([[User talk:Mithril2098\|talk]]) 00:39, 9 November 2019 (PST)

Spencerian: /* Specifics */ +reply

2007-07-28T01:05:52Z

Specifics: +reply

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	If I assume that the Red Line refers to the FTL Drive's capability, is it referring to the distance from a particular point in space that jumps become too dangerous or the particular ship's range itself? --[[User:Rapturous\|Rapturous]] 18:15, 27 July 2007 (CDT)		If I assume that the Red Line refers to the FTL Drive's capability, is it referring to the distance from a particular point in space that jumps become too dangerous or the particular ship's range itself? --[[User:Rapturous\|Rapturous]] 18:15, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

			:Welcome, Rapturous. It's inferred as the ship's maximum range to calculate a safe jump based on known coordinates as well as the relative power or efficiency of the jump engines to a lesser degree. Without any coordinates, a [[blind jump]] occurs. With bad coordinates, disaster is possible as well by collision. Reference the episodes "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" where Starbuck is able to return to Caprica with only one jump using her captured [[Cylon Raider (RDM)\|Raider]] (the number of jumps needed by the Fleet would be many more based on both the civilian ship's abilities as well as ''Galactica'' and her ability to calculate a jump safe for everyone). Cylons are living computers and can make immensely long and precise jumps with their technology. The Colonials use [[Sharon Agathon\|Caprica-Valerii]]'s ability to calculate a series of jumps to Caprica again for a rescue mission for the [[Caprica Resistance]] using more Cylon hardware, in this case, using [[Heavy Raider]] [[avionics]] as the nav computer in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]". On the last jump, one of the [[Raptor]]s has a miscalculation and jumps (materializes) ''inside'' a mountain. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 20:05, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Rapturous: /* Specifics */

2007-07-27T23:16:53Z

Specifics

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	== Specifics ==		== Specifics ==

	If I assume that the Red Line refers to the FTL Drive's capability, is it referring to the distance from a particular point in space that jumps become too dangerous or the particular ship's range itself? [[User:Rapturous\|Rapturous]] 18:15, 27 July 2007 (CDT)		If I assume that the Red Line refers to the FTL Drive's capability, is it referring to the distance from a particular point in space that jumps become too dangerous or the particular ship's range itself? --[[User:Rapturous\|Rapturous]] 18:15, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Rapturous: /* Specifics */

2007-07-27T23:15:51Z

Specifics

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	== Specifics ==		== Specifics ==

	If I assume that the Red Line refers to the FTL Drive's capability, is it referring to the distance from a particular point in space that jumps become too dangerous or the particular ship's range itself?		If I assume that the Red Line refers to the FTL Drive's capability, is it referring to the distance from a particular point in space that jumps become too dangerous or the particular ship's range itself? [[User:Rapturous\|Rapturous]] 18:15, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Rapturous: Specifics

2007-07-27T23:15:25Z

Specifics

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	:Right. The red line is mostly a computational problem, which is why the Cylons can make far longer jumps. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 15:14, 4 March 2007 (CST)		:Right. The red line is mostly a computational problem, which is why the Cylons can make far longer jumps. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 15:14, 4 March 2007 (CST)

			== Specifics ==

			If I assume that the Red Line refers to the FTL Drive's capability, is it referring to the distance from a particular point in space that jumps become too dangerous or the particular ship's range itself?

Serenity at 21:14, 4 March 2007

2007-03-04T21:14:47Z

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	::::::The early draft is still better than pure speculation. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 02:42, 23 March 2006 (CST)		::::::The early draft is still better than pure speculation. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 02:42, 23 March 2006 (CST)



	"the power available to form a wormhole"? exactly where does that comment come from? because it looks totally unsubstantiated to me, from what weve seen of FTL drives a wormhole is one of the least likely theories on there science, especially after the atmospheric jumps weve seen and the instantanious nature of a jump, if a wormhole is the mechanism used it has to be created moving, and moving fast because ships dont move or accelerate toward a stationary singularity and it has to be big enougth for the ship to enter otherwise you leave bits behind we see no spatial disturbances or no returning images of a ships destination thru a wormhole.		"the power available to form a wormhole"? exactly where does that comment come from? because it looks totally unsubstantiated to me, from what weve seen of FTL drives a wormhole is one of the least likely theories on there science, especially after the atmospheric jumps weve seen and the instantanious nature of a jump, if a wormhole is the mechanism used it has to be created moving, and moving fast because ships dont move or accelerate toward a stationary singularity and it has to be big enougth for the ship to enter otherwise you leave bits behind we see no spatial disturbances or no returning images of a ships destination thru a wormhole.

	as i never critisise witout sugesting things a much more valid reason for a red line may be the lack of FTL sensors, if a ship is atempting lets arbritarily pick 10 LYs as a jump distance then any real time observational evidence of the target destination is 10 years out of date, along side the difficulty of calculating gravitational interactions when any larger number than 2 objects are involved and some of the other items on the pages list may make the red line a hybrid of both thesis' where where maximum jump range into the unknown is shorter than max range when jumping to familiar areas where recent astronomical data is available		as i never critisise witout sugesting things a much more valid reason for a red line may be the lack of FTL sensors, if a ship is atempting lets arbritarily pick 10 LYs as a jump distance then any real time observational evidence of the target destination is 10 years out of date, along side the difficulty of calculating gravitational interactions when any larger number than 2 objects are involved and some of the other items on the pages list may make the red line a hybrid of both thesis' where where maximum jump range into the unknown is shorter than max range when jumping to familiar areas where recent astronomical data is available --[[User:Furrygopher\|Furrygopher]] 14:59, 4 March 2007 (CST)

	--[[User:~~Furrygopher~~\|~~Furrygopher~~]] 14~~:59~~, 4 March 2007 (CST)		:Right. The red line is mostly a computational problem, which is why the Cylons can make far longer jumps. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 15:14, 4 March 2007 (CST)

Furrygopher at 20:59, 4 March 2007

2007-03-04T20:59:36Z

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	::::::The early draft is still better than pure speculation. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 02:42, 23 March 2006 (CST)		::::::The early draft is still better than pure speculation. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 02:42, 23 March 2006 (CST)

			"the power available to form a wormhole"? exactly where does that comment come from? because it looks totally unsubstantiated to me, from what weve seen of FTL drives a wormhole is one of the least likely theories on there science, especially after the atmospheric jumps weve seen and the instantanious nature of a jump, if a wormhole is the mechanism used it has to be created moving, and moving fast because ships dont move or accelerate toward a stationary singularity and it has to be big enougth for the ship to enter otherwise you leave bits behind we see no spatial disturbances or no returning images of a ships destination thru a wormhole.

			as i never critisise witout sugesting things a much more valid reason for a red line may be the lack of FTL sensors, if a ship is atempting lets arbritarily pick 10 LYs as a jump distance then any real time observational evidence of the target destination is 10 years out of date, along side the difficulty of calculating gravitational interactions when any larger number than 2 objects are involved and some of the other items on the pages list may make the red line a hybrid of both thesis' where where maximum jump range into the unknown is shorter than max range when jumping to familiar areas where recent astronomical data is available

			--[[User:Furrygopher\|Furrygopher]] 14:59, 4 March 2007 (CST)

April Arcus at 08:42, 23 March 2006

2006-03-23T08:42:53Z

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	:::::I still disagree with basing this just on the ''early'' Miniseries draft; I mean a lot of stuff was changed since then. If you've got something else to point out that would be great. I really don't know. I wish they'd clarify this in the future.--[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian\|E]])</sup> 23:30, 22 March 2006 (CST)		:::::I still disagree with basing this just on the ''early'' Miniseries draft; I mean a lot of stuff was changed since then. If you've got something else to point out that would be great. I really don't know. I wish they'd clarify this in the future.--[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian\|E]])</sup> 23:30, 22 March 2006 (CST)

			::::::The early draft is still better than pure speculation. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 02:42, 23 March 2006 (CST)

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	: For the record, Adama didn't use it; Tigh did. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:54, 28 December 2005 (EST)		: For the record, Adama didn't use it; Tigh did. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:54, 28 December 2005 (EST)

	::::Without any further clarification, I am inclined to defer to the definition given in the early draft. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 02:55, 28 December 2005 (EST)		::::Without any further clarification, I am inclined to defer to the definition given in the early draft. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 02:55, 28 December 2005 (EST)

	We have never heard this term again. However, they never refer to "our red line" just "the red line". I think it marks the boundary of explored space, and that individual ships FTL do not have their own personal "red lines". As evidenced by the Cylon Raider, and the talk about what could happen to ''Pegasus'' in a blind-Jump, there is actually no distance limit to a Jump, the only thing that limits them from ''wanting'' to make one is the safe distance their nav computer can compute, knowing they won't run into something. Better computer gives farther range. In light of this, and the context, I really think this should be changed to limit of explored space. Early drafts have been shown to be unreliable basis.--[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] 17:07, 4 March 2006 (CST)		We have never heard this term again. However, they never refer to "our red line" just "the red line". I think it marks the boundary of explored space, and that individual ships FTL do not have their own personal "red lines". As evidenced by the Cylon Raider, and the talk about what could happen to ''Pegasus'' in a blind-Jump, there is actually no distance limit to a Jump, the only thing that limits them from ''wanting'' to make one is the safe distance their nav computer can compute, knowing they won't run into something. Better computer gives farther range. In light of this, and the context, I really think this should be changed to limit of explored space. Early drafts have been shown to be unreliable basis.--[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] 17:07, 4 March 2006 (CST)
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	: I will concur with Merv's view on this. The drafts of the mini series script are just those... drafts. Many, many things change between drafts and the shooting script -- for instance, in the mini series, the Colonials came from Kobol explicitly and the Twelve Colonies did not exist. If anything, we should note the origins of the "Red Line" in a Notes section, but defer to on screen evidence as canonical. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:44, 5 March 2006 (CST)		: I will concur with Merv's view on this. The drafts of the mini series script are just those... drafts. Many, many things change between drafts and the shooting script -- for instance, in the mini series, the Colonials came from Kobol explicitly and the Twelve Colonies did not exist. If anything, we should note the origins of the "Red Line" in a Notes section, but defer to on screen evidence as canonical. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:44, 5 March 2006 (CST)

	::I disagree. In the absence of any contradictory information presented on-screen, the description from the old miniseries is the best evidence we have to go on. Note that it is very consistant with the maneuver employed in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I". --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 00:52, 6 March 2006 (CST)		::I disagree. In the absence of any contradictory information presented on-screen, the description from the old miniseries is the best evidence we have to go on. Note that it is very consistant with the maneuver employed in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I". --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 00:52, 6 March 2006 (CST)

	I didn't have a "lack of a response" Farago, I already said I think this should ''not'' use the old format; it was an early script thing. "Red line" refers to known space, not engine capability. I mean they don't even make mention of it in terms of FTL engine limits in LDYB part II. --[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] 21:10, 15 March 2006 (CST)		I didn't have a "lack of a response" Farago, I already said I think this should ''not'' use the old format; it was an early script thing. "Red line" refers to known space, not engine capability. I mean they don't even make mention of it in terms of FTL engine limits in LDYB part II. --[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] 21:10, 15 March 2006 (CST)

	:Source. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 23:07, 15 March 2006 (CST)		:Source. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 23:07, 15 March 2006 (CST)

	::Well, just the transcript for LDYB II I guess. Look, I'm not really saying anything new, I'm just sayiing that I didn't drop my response, that that's still my own position on the subject and lets try to work this out. --[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] 23:48, 15 March 2006 (CST)		::Well, just the transcript for LDYB II I guess. Look, I'm not really saying anything new, I'm just sayiing that I didn't drop my response, that that's still my own position on the subject and lets try to work this out. --[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] 23:48, 15 March 2006 (CST)

	:::Okay. As above, without positive evidence to the contrary, I continue to believe that we should defer to the miniseries draft. LDYB II does not contradict this at all, in my opinion - the Cylon Brain in a Vat simply allowed them to compute more precise jumps. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 00:39, 16 March 2006 (CST)		:::Okay. As above, without positive evidence to the contrary, I continue to believe that we should defer to the miniseries draft. LDYB II does not contradict this at all, in my opinion - the Cylon Brain in a Vat simply allowed them to compute more precise jumps. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 00:39, 16 March 2006 (CST)

	::::I still disagree. It was probably removed from the script in the first place because it doesn't make sense. At the least, I feel a presentation of both possiblities as equally likely would be better. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:58, 22 March 2006 (CST)		::::I still disagree. It was probably removed from the script in the first place because it doesn't make sense. At the least, I feel a presentation of both possiblities as equally likely would be better. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:58, 22 March 2006 (CST)
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	:::::I still disagree with basing this just on the ''early'' Miniseries draft; I mean a lot of stuff was changed since then. If you've got something else to point out that would be great. I really don't know. I wish they'd clarify this in the future.--[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian\|E]])</sup> 23:30, 22 March 2006 (CST)		:::::I still disagree with basing this just on the ''early'' Miniseries draft; I mean a lot of stuff was changed since then. If you've got something else to point out that would be great. I really don't know. I wish they'd clarify this in the future.--[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian\|E]])</sup> 23:30, 22 March 2006 (CST)

	::::::The early draft is still better than pure speculation. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 02:42, 23 March 2006 (CST)		::::::The early draft is still better than pure speculation. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 02:42, 23 March 2006 (CST)