Talk:Race and Ethnicity in the Twelve Colonies/Archive 1 - Revision history

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

2020-04-11T01:58:13Z

Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

Noneofyourbusiness at 15:29, 25 February 2010

2010-02-25T15:29:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:29, 25 February 2010
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	I have added some of the characters that have appeared in Capirca, hope thats ok		I have added some of the characters that have appeared in Capirca, hope thats ok
			:Of course it is. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:29, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

These at 14:34, 25 February 2010

2010-02-25T14:34:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:34, 25 February 2010
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	I don't have the time to do this, but someone needs to update this page in light of certain revelations about Taurons in the Caprica pilot. Same with the page on Language in the 12 Colonies.		I don't have the time to do this, but someone needs to update this page in light of certain revelations about Taurons in the Caprica pilot. Same with the page on Language in the 12 Colonies.

			== Added some Caprican Characters ==

			I have added some of the characters that have appeared in Capirca, hope thats ok

Fulltimedefendent: updates re: caprica pilot

2009-04-28T01:41:40Z

updates re: caprica pilot

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:41, 28 April 2009
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	Why are most of the visibily black characters identified as being mixed African-European. In patricular I am referring to Dualla, Venner, and Sekou. The only black character listed as being "African" on the page is Sarah Porter who is visibily darker than the other 3. It seems to me someone is imposing a somewhat ignorant view of what sub-Saharan Africans can look like without having European ancestry. Obviously among the 1000s of ethnicities in that group there is a wide range of skin tones and facial features and not every black person with skin that isnt very dark has European ancestry. Unless any of the actors who portray them are known to be of mixed race I believe the other 3 black characters all of whom have very visibile African ancestry should be listed as "African". I went ahead and made this change and think it appropriate unless someone can give a valid reason for listing all of these characters as being mixed African-European.		Why are most of the visibily black characters identified as being mixed African-European. In patricular I am referring to Dualla, Venner, and Sekou. The only black character listed as being "African" on the page is Sarah Porter who is visibily darker than the other 3. It seems to me someone is imposing a somewhat ignorant view of what sub-Saharan Africans can look like without having European ancestry. Obviously among the 1000s of ethnicities in that group there is a wide range of skin tones and facial features and not every black person with skin that isnt very dark has European ancestry. Unless any of the actors who portray them are known to be of mixed race I believe the other 3 black characters all of whom have very visibile African ancestry should be listed as "African". I went ahead and made this change and think it appropriate unless someone can give a valid reason for listing all of these characters as being mixed African-European.
	--[[User:Colber\|Colber]] 12:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)		--[[User:Colber\|Colber]] 12:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

			== Updates RE: Caprica Pilot ==

			I don't have the time to do this, but someone needs to update this page in light of certain revelations about Taurons in the Caprica pilot. Same with the page on Language in the 12 Colonies.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Undo revision 178888 by Jkerpal (Talk) it is not a contributor's place to censor other people's comments on talk pages

2009-04-18T15:21:59Z

Undo revision 178888 by Jkerpal (Talk) it is not a contributor's place to censor other people's comments on talk pages

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:21, 18 April 2009
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	--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)		--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
	: We have an article on sexuality [[Sexuality in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)\|here]] that addresses all these points. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)		: We have an article on sexuality [[Sexuality in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)\|here]] that addresses all these points. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


			== black (African) characters ==

			Why are most of the visibily black characters identified as being mixed African-European. In patricular I am referring to Dualla, Venner, and Sekou. The only black character listed as being "African" on the page is Sarah Porter who is visibily darker than the other 3. It seems to me someone is imposing a somewhat ignorant view of what sub-Saharan Africans can look like without having European ancestry. Obviously among the 1000s of ethnicities in that group there is a wide range of skin tones and facial features and not every black person with skin that isnt very dark has European ancestry. Unless any of the actors who portray them are known to be of mixed race I believe the other 3 black characters all of whom have very visibile African ancestry should be listed as "African". I went ahead and made this change and think it appropriate unless someone can give a valid reason for listing all of these characters as being mixed African-European.
			--[[User:Colber\|Colber]] 12:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Jkerpal: /* black (African) characters */

2009-04-18T03:45:33Z

black (African) characters

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:45, 18 April 2009
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	--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)		--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
	: We have an article on sexuality [[Sexuality in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)\|here]] that addresses all these points. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)		: We have an article on sexuality [[Sexuality in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)\|here]] that addresses all these points. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


	~~== black (African) characters ==~~

	Why are most of the visibily black characters identified as being mixed African-European. In patricular I am referring to Dualla, Venner, and Sekou. The only black character listed as being "African" on the page is Sarah Porter who is visibily darker than the other 3. It seems to me someone is imposing a somewhat ignorant view of what sub-Saharan Africans can look like without having European ancestry. Obviously among the 1000s of ethnicities in that group there is a wide range of skin tones and facial features and not every black person with skin that isnt very dark has European ancestry. Unless any of the actors who portray them are known to be of mixed race I believe the other 3 black characters all of whom have very visibile African ancestry should be listed as "African". I went ahead and made this change and think it appropriate unless someone can give a valid reason for listing all of these characters as being mixed African-European.
	~~--[[User:Colber\|Colber]] 12:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)~~

Colber: O

2009-03-27T12:16:33Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:16, 27 March 2009
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	--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)		--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
	: We have an article on sexuality [[Sexuality in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)\|here]] that addresses all these points. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)		: We have an article on sexuality [[Sexuality in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)\|here]] that addresses all these points. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


			== black (African) characters ==

			Why are most of the visibily black characters identified as being mixed African-European. In patricular I am referring to Dualla, Venner, and Sekou. The only black character listed as being "African" on the page is Sarah Porter who is visibily darker than the other 3. It seems to me someone is imposing a somewhat ignorant view of what sub-Saharan Africans can look like without having European ancestry. Obviously among the 1000s of ethnicities in that group there is a wide range of skin tones and facial features and not every black person with skin that isnt very dark has European ancestry. Unless any of the actors who portray them are known to be of mixed race I believe the other 3 black characters all of whom have very visibile African ancestry should be listed as "African". I went ahead and made this change and think it appropriate unless someone can give a valid reason for listing all of these characters as being mixed African-European.
			--[[User:Colber\|Colber]] 12:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* Sexuality only mentions heterosexuality */ reply

2009-03-10T18:23:13Z

Sexuality only mentions heterosexuality: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:23, 10 March 2009
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	In the Webisodes ''Face of the Enemy'', Gaeta is shown to be involved in a homosexual relationship. Also, Admiral Cain, commander of the Pegasus, was involved in a lesbian relationship with Natalie (a Six). During the webisodes, homosexuality was taken for granted - as nothing special. Certainly it wasn't given the prejudice that Americans give it. And with Admiral Cain's relationship, it was looked at negatively only ''after'' it was found that Natalie was a Cylon.		In the Webisodes ''Face of the Enemy'', Gaeta is shown to be involved in a homosexual relationship. Also, Admiral Cain, commander of the Pegasus, was involved in a lesbian relationship with Natalie (a Six). During the webisodes, homosexuality was taken for granted - as nothing special. Certainly it wasn't given the prejudice that Americans give it. And with Admiral Cain's relationship, it was looked at negatively only ''after'' it was found that Natalie was a Cylon.
	--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)		--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
			: We have an article on sexuality [[Sexuality in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)\|here]] that addresses all these points. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Cerberus: /* Sexuality only mentions heterosexuality */ new section

2009-03-10T17:54:52Z

Sexuality only mentions heterosexuality: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:54, 10 March 2009
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	::I think I'm fine with that. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 12:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT)		::I think I'm fine with that. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 12:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
	:::Glad it's settled. I don't like arguing. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:24, 21 May 2006 (CDT)		:::Glad it's settled. I don't like arguing. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:24, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

			== Sexuality only mentions heterosexuality ==

			In the Webisodes ''Face of the Enemy'', Gaeta is shown to be involved in a homosexual relationship. Also, Admiral Cain, commander of the Pegasus, was involved in a lesbian relationship with Natalie (a Six). During the webisodes, homosexuality was taken for granted - as nothing special. Certainly it wasn't given the prejudice that Americans give it. And with Admiral Cain's relationship, it was looked at negatively only ''after'' it was found that Natalie was a Cylon.
			--[[User:Cerberus\|Cerberus]] 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Noneofyourbusiness at 19:24, 21 May 2006

2006-05-21T19:24:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:24, 21 May 2006
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	::I think I'm fine with that. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 12:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT)		::I think I'm fine with that. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 12:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
			:::Glad it's settled. I don't like arguing. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:24, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:58, 11 April 2020
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	Why are they listed as being a couple? [[User:Kuralyov\|Kuralyov]] 17:24, 28 August 2005 (EDT)		Why are they listed as being a couple? [[User:Kuralyov\|Kuralyov]] 17:24, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

	:She checked out his ass in [[Resistance]], and RDM indicated on the podcast that this was a hint for the second half of the season. It's listed with the same level of surety as Baltar's interest in Boomer, anyway. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 17:31, 28 August 2005 (EDT)		:She checked out his ass in [[Resistance]], and RDM indicated on the podcast that this was a hint for the second half of the season. It's listed with the same level of surety as Baltar's interest in Boomer, anyway. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 17:31, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

	== Playa Palacios ==		== Playa Palacios ==
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	The point of this section was to explore attitudes toward race and sexuality in the colonies. Stating that some characters don't display a preference one way or another is senseless, since, as established in the paragraph above, this appears to be the default. I understand your desire to change the wording to reflect the facts of the case, but really, I think the better solution here is to change the focus on the evidence within the section to better explore the topic it was meant to.		The point of this section was to explore attitudes toward race and sexuality in the colonies. Stating that some characters don't display a preference one way or another is senseless, since, as established in the paragraph above, this appears to be the default. I understand your desire to change the wording to reflect the facts of the case, but really, I think the better solution here is to change the focus on the evidence within the section to better explore the topic it was meant to.

	Basically, your point about Baltar is sound, and this means he should be removed from the section entirely. Thrace, I think, still stands, as she's had at least four sexual encounters with a person of predominantly European decent, and not a single one with anyone else. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 11:59, 20 May 2006 (CDT)		Basically, your point about Baltar is sound, and this means he should be removed from the section entirely. Thrace, I think, still stands, as she's had at least four sexual encounters with a person of predominantly European decent, and not a single one with anyone else. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 11:59, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
	:If the point is to determine whether or not there is a preference, then it is incorrect to start with the definitive phrase "these characters have demonstrated a preference." Also, I didn't make a point about Baltar. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:17, 20 May 2006 (CDT)		:If the point is to determine whether or not there is a preference, then it is incorrect to start with the definitive phrase "these characters have demonstrated a preference." Also, I didn't make a point about Baltar. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:17, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

	::You said "the same-race interactions do not outnumber the interracial ones" in an edit summary, which is true for Baltar, but not Thrace. As for Thrace, I think it's quite safe to say that she's demonstrated a preference. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 13:24, 20 May 2006 (CDT)		::You said "the same-race interactions do not outnumber the interracial ones" in an edit summary, which is true for Baltar, but not Thrace. As for Thrace, I think it's quite safe to say that she's demonstrated a preference. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 13:24, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
	Who agrees with me that it's coincidental? [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:53, 20 May 2006 (CDT)		Who agrees with me that it's coincidental? [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:53, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

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	:But the word usage "has demonstrated a preference" does offend me. It should be "seems to have demonstrated a preference", in the interest of accuracy. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:16, 20 May 2006 (CDT)		:But the word usage "has demonstrated a preference" does offend me. It should be "seems to have demonstrated a preference", in the interest of accuracy. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:16, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

	::I don't see why. "Seems to" is a weasel phrase - it weakens the statement without improving the factual validity. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 18:56, 20 May 2006 (CDT)		::I don't see why. "Seems to" is a weasel phrase - it weakens the statement without improving the factual validity. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 18:56, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
	:::It does not weaken the statement and it does improve the factual vailidity. It gives the correct impression that there is only the appearance of a preference and not necessarily the fact. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:55, 20 May 2006 (CDT)		:::It does not weaken the statement and it does improve the factual vailidity. It gives the correct impression that there is only the appearance of a preference and not necessarily the fact. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:55, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

	::::The statement is that she has demonstrated a preference, which she has plainly done with her choice of sexual partners. We are certainly not claiming that she has made a statement on the matter. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 00:52, 21 May 2006 (CDT)		::::The statement is that she has demonstrated a preference, which she has plainly done with her choice of sexual partners. We are certainly not claiming that she has made a statement on the matter. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 00:52, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

	:::::Having many relationships with Europeans is NOT the same as demonstrating a preference towards Europeans. Either (a) she rejected other candidates because they were not European, in which case there is a preference for Europeans, or (b) she was attracted to all these people based solely on other characteristics and it is coincidental they were all European, in which case there is no preference for Europeans. Thus "has possibly demonstrated a preference" is the Only accurate (and thus strong) way to write the sentence. The sentence as is is weakened by the existence of other possibilities which it does not account for. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:14, 21 May 2006 (CDT)		:::::Having many relationships with Europeans is NOT the same as demonstrating a preference towards Europeans. Either (a) she rejected other candidates because they were not European, in which case there is a preference for Europeans, or (b) she was attracted to all these people based solely on other characteristics and it is coincidental they were all European, in which case there is no preference for Europeans. Thus "has possibly demonstrated a preference" is the Only accurate (and thus strong) way to write the sentence. The sentence as is is weakened by the existence of other possibilities which it does not account for. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:14, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
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	:On second thought, let's leave out this controversial word "preference" altogether, and just say "That being said, at least one individual, Kara Thrace, has only been shown in romantic or sexual relationships with people of her own race, having been involved with..." which is entirely factual. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:18, 21 May 2006 (CDT)		:On second thought, let's leave out this controversial word "preference" altogether, and just say "That being said, at least one individual, Kara Thrace, has only been shown in romantic or sexual relationships with people of her own race, having been involved with..." which is entirely factual. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:18, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

	::I think I'm fine with that. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 12:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT)		::I think I'm fine with that. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT)
	:::Glad it's settled. I don't like arguing. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:24, 21 May 2006 (CDT)		:::Glad it's settled. I don't like arguing. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:24, 21 May 2006 (CDT)