Talk:Messengers/Archive 1 - Revision history

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

2020-04-11T01:54:05Z

Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:54, 11 April 2020
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	: While it's the most extreme seemingly physical interaction so far, this isn't really too different from what happens in ''[[w:Fight Club\|Fight Club]]'' for example, and not completely impossible to do alone. While it seems that he is held in the air, it's not actually shown. Could be either. Sure, it might be more, but it's not ''that'' certain. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 08:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		: While it's the most extreme seemingly physical interaction so far, this isn't really too different from what happens in ''[[w:Fight Club\|Fight Club]]'' for example, and not completely impossible to do alone. While it seems that he is held in the air, it's not actually shown. Could be either. Sure, it might be more, but it's not ''that'' certain. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 08:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	::IMO anything which happens while Virtual Six is visible should be considered unreliable. In other words, I think that only movements which Baltar could not plasibly make under his own power occuring while Virtual Six is not in the shot should be considered conclusive evidence of physical interaction. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker\|Gordon Ecker]] 08:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		::IMO anything which happens while Virtual Six is visible should be considered unreliable. In other words, I think that only movements which Baltar could not plasibly make under his own power occuring while Virtual Six is not in the shot should be considered conclusive evidence of physical interaction. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker\|Gordon Ecker]] 08:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	::I don't at all like the implication of an invisible "Six" physically lifting Baltar, but we have to acknowledge that setting up the shot the way they did was not at all trivial, and must have been done for a reason. Whether this was intended to be dramatic (and thus, demands a literal interpretation) or comic (and thus, just a sight gag) is unclear - it's a mirthless episode, but Olmos's previous episodes have demonstrated a taste for comedy. If it we have to interpret it literally, well, that's a challenge. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		::I don't at all like the implication of an invisible "Six" physically lifting Baltar, but we have to acknowledge that setting up the shot the way they did was not at all trivial, and must have been done for a reason. Whether this was intended to be dramatic (and thus, demands a literal interpretation) or comic (and thus, just a sight gag) is unclear - it's a mirthless episode, but Olmos's previous episodes have demonstrated a taste for comedy. If it we have to interpret it literally, well, that's a challenge. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	:::To counter the point, had Baltar been lifted "off the ground", we'd see a variety of shocked reactions from those who witnessed this otherworldly event. So not only do we have to gauge what we see Baltar doing, but we also have to look at the entire picture. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		:::To counter the point, had Baltar been lifted "off the ground", we'd see a variety of shocked reactions from those who witnessed this otherworldly event. So not only do we have to gauge what we see Baltar doing, but we also have to look at the entire picture. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	::I dont understand how this is in question. IIRC from the podcast for the episode..James Callis did all the movements under his own power..if the actor could do them, why is it in question the the character couldn't do them? Also from the podcast, Ron complained that the intent was not to look like he was lifted but under his own power. --[[User:Tritium\|Tritium]] 04:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)		::I dont understand how this is in question. IIRC from the podcast for the episode..James Callis did all the movements under his own power..if the actor could do them, why is it in question the the character couldn't do them? Also from the podcast, Ron complained that the intent was not to look like he was lifted but under his own power. --[[User:Tritium\|Tritium]] 04:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
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	Pretty much every official source I see (including RDM's podcast) uses the phrases "Head-Six", and "Head-Baltar" rather than "Virtual". Shouldn't we follow suit? [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 20:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)		Pretty much every official source I see (including RDM's podcast) uses the phrases "Head-Six", and "Head-Baltar" rather than "Virtual". Shouldn't we follow suit? [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 20:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
	:Lacks gravitas, but does seem more standard. What does RDM call them in the podcasts? --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 05:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)		:Lacks gravitas, but does seem more standard. What does RDM call them in the podcasts? --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 05:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
	::He calls them Head-Six and Head-Baltar. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker\|Gordon Ecker]] 05:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)		::He calls them Head-Six and Head-Baltar. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker\|Gordon Ecker]] 05:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
	:We can use both. And note the terminology here. But there isn't really much point in changing it throughout the wiki. I don't think it's too confusing to use both for some variety. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 09:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)		:We can use both. And note the terminology here. But there isn't really much point in changing it throughout the wiki. I don't think it's too confusing to use both for some variety. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 09:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? */ reply

2011-05-19T17:59:06Z

One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased?: reply

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	::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}		::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}
	::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)		::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
	:::: So in other words it would be better to say that they chose those forms because it would be the easiest for the people they were messaging to process? Since Baltar and Six were very caring about themselves they could process seeing their idealized selves pretty easy. Whereas Roslin and a few others, if Kara is a messenger, view others. Wonder what they may say about Baltar and Six.		:::: So in other words it would be better to say that they chose those forms because it would be the easiest for the people they were messaging to process? Since Baltar and Six were very caring about themselves they could process seeing their idealized selves pretty easy. Whereas Roslin and a few others, if Kara is a messenger, view others. Wonder what they may say about Baltar and Six. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}
			::::: Well, Caprica Six just saw Messenger Baltar. She never saw Messenger Six until "Daybreak." As for Kara, she's markedly different from the other so-called beings as she and her magical pristine Viper did have a corporeal form, and no one (not even Ron Moore) knows what she is... and whatever post-"Maelstrom" Kara and her magic Viper are, they are meant to be an unsolved mystery. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 13:59, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

Garrett4: /* One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? */

2011-05-19T03:03:50Z

One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased?

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:03, 19 May 2011
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	::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}		::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}
	::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)		::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
			:::: So in other words it would be better to say that they chose those forms because it would be the easiest for the people they were messaging to process? Since Baltar and Six were very caring about themselves they could process seeing their idealized selves pretty easy. Whereas Roslin and a few others, if Kara is a messenger, view others. Wonder what they may say about Baltar and Six.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? */ reply

2011-05-11T14:07:58Z

One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased?: reply

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	-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time. {{unsigned\|Garrett4‎}}		-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time. {{unsigned\|Garrett4‎}}
	:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)		:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)
	::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong.		::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}
			::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

Garrett4 at 02:39, 11 May 2011

2011-05-11T02:39:36Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:39, 11 May 2011
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	-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time. {{unsigned\|Garrett4‎}}		-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time. {{unsigned\|Garrett4‎}}
	:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)		:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)
			::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? */ {{unsigned}} template after Garrett4's comment

2011-05-10T13:40:03Z

One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased?: {{unsigned}} template after Garrett4's comment

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:40, 10 May 2011
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	== One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? ==		== One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? ==

	-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time.		-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time. {{unsigned\|Garrett4‎}}
	:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)		:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)

Noneofyourbusiness at 02:44, 10 May 2011

2011-05-10T02:44:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:44, 10 May 2011
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	-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time.		-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time.
			:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)

Garrett4: /* One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? */ new section

2011-05-10T01:19:10Z

One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased?: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:19, 10 May 2011
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	::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
	: Sounds good. I removed the link on Kara's page that led here, but I'm not sure how to redirect Leoben's page here (been awhile since I did any serious wiki editing), and I don't see it in the help section. [[User:Shimel\|Shimel]] 01:22, 25 January 2011 (UTC)		: Sounds good. I removed the link on Kara's page that led here, but I'm not sure how to redirect Leoben's page here (been awhile since I did any serious wiki editing), and I don't see it in the help section. [[User:Shimel\|Shimel]] 01:22, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

			== One can only be a messenger when the original person who they portray is deceased? ==

			-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time.

Shimel: /* Starbuck */ not sure how to redirect pages (Messenger Leoben to here)

2011-01-25T01:22:49Z

Starbuck: not sure how to redirect pages (Messenger Leoben to here)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:22, 25 January 2011
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	::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
	::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
			: Sounds good. I removed the link on Kara's page that led here, but I'm not sure how to redirect Leoben's page here (been awhile since I did any serious wiki editing), and I don't see it in the help section. [[User:Shimel\|Shimel]] 01:22, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* Starbuck */ reply

2011-01-24T17:43:01Z

Starbuck: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:43, 24 January 2011
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	:i agree. [[User:Pst001\|Pst001]] 09:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		:i agree. [[User:Pst001\|Pst001]] 09:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
	::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
			::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:54, 11 April 2020
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	: While it's the most extreme seemingly physical interaction so far, this isn't really too different from what happens in ''[[w:Fight Club\|Fight Club]]'' for example, and not completely impossible to do alone. While it seems that he is held in the air, it's not actually shown. Could be either. Sure, it might be more, but it's not ''that'' certain. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 08:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		: While it's the most extreme seemingly physical interaction so far, this isn't really too different from what happens in ''[[w:Fight Club\|Fight Club]]'' for example, and not completely impossible to do alone. While it seems that he is held in the air, it's not actually shown. Could be either. Sure, it might be more, but it's not ''that'' certain. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 08:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	::IMO anything which happens while Virtual Six is visible should be considered unreliable. In other words, I think that only movements which Baltar could not plasibly make under his own power occuring while Virtual Six is not in the shot should be considered conclusive evidence of physical interaction. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker\|Gordon Ecker]] 08:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		::IMO anything which happens while Virtual Six is visible should be considered unreliable. In other words, I think that only movements which Baltar could not plasibly make under his own power occuring while Virtual Six is not in the shot should be considered conclusive evidence of physical interaction. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker\|Gordon Ecker]] 08:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	::I don't at all like the implication of an invisible "Six" physically lifting Baltar, but we have to acknowledge that setting up the shot the way they did was not at all trivial, and must have been done for a reason. Whether this was intended to be dramatic (and thus, demands a literal interpretation) or comic (and thus, just a sight gag) is unclear - it's a mirthless episode, but Olmos's previous episodes have demonstrated a taste for comedy. If it we have to interpret it literally, well, that's a challenge. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		::I don't at all like the implication of an invisible "Six" physically lifting Baltar, but we have to acknowledge that setting up the shot the way they did was not at all trivial, and must have been done for a reason. Whether this was intended to be dramatic (and thus, demands a literal interpretation) or comic (and thus, just a sight gag) is unclear - it's a mirthless episode, but Olmos's previous episodes have demonstrated a taste for comedy. If it we have to interpret it literally, well, that's a challenge. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	:::To counter the point, had Baltar been lifted "off the ground", we'd see a variety of shocked reactions from those who witnessed this otherworldly event. So not only do we have to gauge what we see Baltar doing, but we also have to look at the entire picture. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		:::To counter the point, had Baltar been lifted "off the ground", we'd see a variety of shocked reactions from those who witnessed this otherworldly event. So not only do we have to gauge what we see Baltar doing, but we also have to look at the entire picture. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	::I dont understand how this is in question. IIRC from the podcast for the episode..James Callis did all the movements under his own power..if the actor could do them, why is it in question the the character couldn't do them? Also from the podcast, Ron complained that the intent was not to look like he was lifted but under his own power. --[[User:Tritium\|Tritium]] 04:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)		::I dont understand how this is in question. IIRC from the podcast for the episode..James Callis did all the movements under his own power..if the actor could do them, why is it in question the the character couldn't do them? Also from the podcast, Ron complained that the intent was not to look like he was lifted but under his own power. --[[User:Tritium\|Tritium]] 04:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
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	Pretty much every official source I see (including RDM's podcast) uses the phrases "Head-Six", and "Head-Baltar" rather than "Virtual". Shouldn't we follow suit? [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 20:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)		Pretty much every official source I see (including RDM's podcast) uses the phrases "Head-Six", and "Head-Baltar" rather than "Virtual". Shouldn't we follow suit? [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 20:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
	:Lacks gravitas, but does seem more standard. What does RDM call them in the podcasts? --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 05:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)		:Lacks gravitas, but does seem more standard. What does RDM call them in the podcasts? --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 05:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
	::He calls them Head-Six and Head-Baltar. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker\|Gordon Ecker]] 05:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)		::He calls them Head-Six and Head-Baltar. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker\|Gordon Ecker]] 05:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
	:We can use both. And note the terminology here. But there isn't really much point in changing it throughout the wiki. I don't think it's too confusing to use both for some variety. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 09:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)		:We can use both. And note the terminology here. But there isn't really much point in changing it throughout the wiki. I don't think it's too confusing to use both for some variety. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 09:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

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	::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}		::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}
	::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)		::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)
	:::: So in other words it would be better to say that they chose those forms because it would be the easiest for the people they were messaging to process? Since Baltar and Six were very caring about themselves they could process seeing their idealized selves pretty easy. Whereas Roslin and a few others, if Kara is a messenger, view others. Wonder what they may say about Baltar and Six.		:::: So in other words it would be better to say that they chose those forms because it would be the easiest for the people they were messaging to process? Since Baltar and Six were very caring about themselves they could process seeing their idealized selves pretty easy. Whereas Roslin and a few others, if Kara is a messenger, view others. Wonder what they may say about Baltar and Six. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}
			::::: Well, Caprica Six just saw Messenger Baltar. She never saw Messenger Six until "Daybreak." As for Kara, she's markedly different from the other so-called beings as she and her magical pristine Viper did have a corporeal form, and no one (not even Ron Moore) knows what she is... and whatever post-"Maelstrom" Kara and her magic Viper are, they are meant to be an unsolved mystery. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 13:59, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

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	-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time. {{unsigned\|Garrett4‎}}		-It seems that only after a specific individual has died they appear to someone as a messenger of sorts. For Gaius the obvious was Caprica Six who had died while saving Baltar during the Fall. The Roslin, she saw Enosha after she had died, and William Adama saw his deceased wife. And of course Starbuck, who had definitive proof that she was dead. The one I am not sure about was Gaius, maybe during the shock of the attack he briefly lost his pulse and regained it, so technically he would be dead for a short time. {{unsigned\|Garrett4‎}}
	:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)		:Interesting theory, but Gaius is a strike against it, as is Zoe, who hadn't died when Messenger Zoe first showed up. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:44, 9 May 2011 (EDT)
	::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong.		::I do agree that it would be a few strikes, of course for Baltar it could be possible his father looked like him at the same age Baltar is. So he could be representing him, at least physically. As for Zoe given her history in the show it seems more like a delusion in some ways. Of course I could be wrong. {{unsigned\|Garrett4}}
			::: The Messengers aren't actually the people they present themselves to be. Head Six never was Caprica Six, or a Six of any kind. Head Baltar is not Gaius Baltar, or related to Gaius Baltar, either. The Messengers appear as Six and Baltar because, in their visage, they have a higher probability of affect the outcome in the physical realm. (In this case, saving the Fleet so that it could save Hera and bring her to Earth, even if there were a few bumps along the way.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 10:07, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

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	::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
	::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
			: Sounds good. I removed the link on Kara's page that led here, but I'm not sure how to redirect Leoben's page here (been awhile since I did any serious wiki editing), and I don't see it in the help section. [[User:Shimel\|Shimel]] 01:22, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

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	:i agree. [[User:Pst001\|Pst001]] 09:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		:i agree. [[User:Pst001\|Pst001]] 09:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
	::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)		::That stuff about Messenger Leoben being fundamentally different from the others is obviously not true now, so feel free to merge him in, I say. In regards to Starbuck, they made it intentionally ambiguous whether she was human, could be considered a messenger, or something related to a messenger but not quite the same. They've said as much when asked by fans. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
			::: Starbuck is separate from the so-called "Messengers." No one knows exactly what she is, including Ron Moore. (Great planning, Ronnie.) So, keep it separate. Leoben is a different matter, and should be merged in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]]</sup> 17:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)