Talk:List of character appearances (TRS)/Archive 1 - Revision history

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

2020-04-11T01:54:02Z

Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:54, 11 April 2020
Line 9:		Line 9:

	==Matrix Templates==		==Matrix Templates==
	Nice work with the matrix templates, Shane, Catrope, et al. Can I ask what the distinction is between a "Major" and a "Minor" appearance? Credited in the opening vs. credited at the end? If so, since characters can alternate back and forth (Kat, for example) why not use a special icon or color code to indicate the size of the role, rather than use two rows? For example, we could use different colors for "Appears, but with body double", "Appears, but no lines", "Credited at end", "Credited at beginning" and "Special Guest". --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)		Nice work with the matrix templates, Shane, Catrope, et al. Can I ask what the distinction is between a "Major" and a "Minor" appearance? Credited in the opening vs. credited at the end? If so, since characters can alternate back and forth (Kat, for example) why not use a special icon or color code to indicate the size of the role, rather than use two rows? For example, we could use different colors for "Appears, but with body double", "Appears, but no lines", "Credited at end", "Credited at beginning" and "Special Guest". --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)
	:If we really need a distinction, we could use the one from the character template: [[Template:Characters]]		:If we really need a distinction, we could use the one from the character template: [[Template:Characters]]
	:Anyone who has a large regular role, but isn't in the main credits is major. Tyrol, Helo, Cally, Gaeta, etc. Though maybe we should group them into "main", "supporting" and "recurring" too. That makes a bit more sense --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 12:13, 15 February 2007 (CST)		:Anyone who has a large regular role, but isn't in the main credits is major. Tyrol, Helo, Cally, Gaeta, etc. Though maybe we should group them into "main", "supporting" and "recurring" too. That makes a bit more sense --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 12:13, 15 February 2007 (CST)
	::What I'm saying is that that isn't possible to do objectively. When did Racetrack and Kat go from "recurring" to "supporting"? --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 12:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)		::What I'm saying is that that isn't possible to do objectively. When did Racetrack and Kat go from "recurring" to "supporting"? --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)
	:::I'd say they are still supporting characters. I like Racetrack, but the number of scenes she carries is very low. Kat is more debatable as she had 1 1/2 episodes with a very large role. But you're right. It's hard to do in some cases --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 12:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)		:::I'd say they are still supporting characters. I like Racetrack, but the number of scenes she carries is very low. Kat is more debatable as she had 1 1/2 episodes with a very large role. But you're right. It's hard to do in some cases --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 12:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)
	::::Is it even an important distinction? I mean... when this thing gets going full steam splitting them into only two categories is still going to leave a VERY large list on one of the categories (whichever way you split it). Fortunately, it's pretty flexible such that we can easily subdivide it as needed. So... throw out all categories and sort by some criteria (first appearance then last name then first name, just names, etc.)? Add more categories? I think it'd help me visualize it better the more it gets filled out. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 12:21, 15 February 2007 (CST)		::::Is it even an important distinction? I mean... when this thing gets going full steam splitting them into only two categories is still going to leave a VERY large list on one of the categories (whichever way you split it). Fortunately, it's pretty flexible such that we can easily subdivide it as needed. So... throw out all categories and sort by some criteria (first appearance then last name then first name, just names, etc.)? Add more categories? I think it'd help me visualize it better the more it gets filled out. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 12:21, 15 February 2007 (CST)

DrWho42: moved Talk:List of character appearances (RDM) to Talk:List of character appearances (TRS): Per policy.

2010-10-20T16:16:51Z

moved Talk:List of character appearances (RDM) to Talk:List of character appearances (TRS): Per policy.

← Older revision	Revision as of 16:16, 20 October 2010
(No difference)

OTW: /* Tory */ new section

2008-04-26T11:34:58Z

Tory: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:34, 26 April 2008
Line 61:		Line 61:
	Where is she ? She appears in at least 12 episodes. Why isn't she in the list ? Could you please add her ? [[User:Frór\|Frór]] 04:53, 7 March 2008 (CST)		Where is she ? She appears in at least 12 episodes. Why isn't she in the list ? Could you please add her ? [[User:Frór\|Frór]] 04:53, 7 March 2008 (CST)
	:Done -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 05:16, 7 March 2008 (CST)		:Done -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 05:16, 7 March 2008 (CST)

			== Tory ==

			Tory must be more than a "minor character" in season 4 right? Also do we count all the flashback shots of Cally as an appearance in [[Escape Velocity]]? [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 11:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Serenity: /* Number Three ? */

2008-03-07T11:16:20Z

Number Three ?

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:16, 7 March 2008
Line 60:		Line 60:

	Where is she ? She appears in at least 12 episodes. Why isn't she in the list ? Could you please add her ? [[User:Frór\|Frór]] 04:53, 7 March 2008 (CST)		Where is she ? She appears in at least 12 episodes. Why isn't she in the list ? Could you please add her ? [[User:Frór\|Frór]] 04:53, 7 March 2008 (CST)
			:Done -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 05:16, 7 March 2008 (CST)

Frór: New section: Number Three ?

2008-03-07T10:53:30Z

New section: Number Three ?

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:53, 7 March 2008
Line 56:		Line 56:
	::::Should we do the same matrix idea, but mark X where they do not appear? [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 11:28, 30 December 2007 (CST)		::::Should we do the same matrix idea, but mark X where they do not appear? [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 11:28, 30 December 2007 (CST)
	:::::In my view, that's unnecessary, since it's fine the way it is now. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 12:38, 30 December 2007 (CST)		:::::In my view, that's unnecessary, since it's fine the way it is now. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 12:38, 30 December 2007 (CST)

			== Number Three ? ==

			Where is she ? She appears in at least 12 episodes. Why isn't she in the list ? Could you please add her ? [[User:Frór\|Frór]] 04:53, 7 March 2008 (CST)

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* Should there be a Main Character category? */ reply

2007-12-30T18:38:15Z

Should there be a Main Character category?: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:38, 30 December 2007
Line 55:		Line 55:
	:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)		:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)
	::::Should we do the same matrix idea, but mark X where they do not appear? [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 11:28, 30 December 2007 (CST)		::::Should we do the same matrix idea, but mark X where they do not appear? [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 11:28, 30 December 2007 (CST)
			:::::In my view, that's unnecessary, since it's fine the way it is now. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 12:38, 30 December 2007 (CST)

Shane: /* Should there be a Main Character category? */

2007-12-30T17:28:41Z

Should there be a Main Character category?

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:28, 30 December 2007
Line 54:		Line 54:
	::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)		::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)
	:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)		:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)
			::::Should we do the same matrix idea, but mark X where they do not appear? [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 11:28, 30 December 2007 (CST)

Serenity: /* Should there be a Main Character category? */

2007-12-30T16:57:12Z

Should there be a Main Character category?

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:57, 30 December 2007
Line 53:		Line 53:
	:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)		:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)
	::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)		::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)
			:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)

OTW: /* Should there be a Main Character category? */

2007-12-30T16:55:09Z

Should there be a Main Character category?

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:55, 30 December 2007
Line 52:		Line 52:
	::::It should be noted that Season 2.0 alone lists 23 characters. We might as well list 30 there. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope\|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope\|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:35, 9 May 2007 (CDT)		::::It should be noted that Season 2.0 alone lists 23 characters. We might as well list 30 there. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope\|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope\|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:35, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
	:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)		:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)
			::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)

Shane: /* Should there be a Main Character category? */

2007-12-30T05:11:36Z

Should there be a Main Character category?

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:11, 30 December 2007
Line 51:		Line 51:
	::::But the same argument could be made for many of the "Major" characters. Helo, Chief, and Tigh have missed almost no episodes. The number they've missed is comparable to the number missed by "Main" characters. You could just as easily take them out. An episode without Apollo is just as noteworthy as an episode without Tigh. [[User:Alpha5099\|Alpha5099]] 00:05, 9 May 2007 (CDT)		::::But the same argument could be made for many of the "Major" characters. Helo, Chief, and Tigh have missed almost no episodes. The number they've missed is comparable to the number missed by "Main" characters. You could just as easily take them out. An episode without Apollo is just as noteworthy as an episode without Tigh. [[User:Alpha5099\|Alpha5099]] 00:05, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
	::::It should be noted that Season 2.0 alone lists 23 characters. We might as well list 30 there. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope\|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope\|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:35, 9 May 2007 (CDT)		::::It should be noted that Season 2.0 alone lists 23 characters. We might as well list 30 there. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope\|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope\|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:35, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
			:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:54, 11 April 2020
Line 9:		Line 9:

	==Matrix Templates==		==Matrix Templates==
	Nice work with the matrix templates, Shane, Catrope, et al. Can I ask what the distinction is between a "Major" and a "Minor" appearance? Credited in the opening vs. credited at the end? If so, since characters can alternate back and forth (Kat, for example) why not use a special icon or color code to indicate the size of the role, rather than use two rows? For example, we could use different colors for "Appears, but with body double", "Appears, but no lines", "Credited at end", "Credited at beginning" and "Special Guest". --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)		Nice work with the matrix templates, Shane, Catrope, et al. Can I ask what the distinction is between a "Major" and a "Minor" appearance? Credited in the opening vs. credited at the end? If so, since characters can alternate back and forth (Kat, for example) why not use a special icon or color code to indicate the size of the role, rather than use two rows? For example, we could use different colors for "Appears, but with body double", "Appears, but no lines", "Credited at end", "Credited at beginning" and "Special Guest". --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)
	:If we really need a distinction, we could use the one from the character template: [[Template:Characters]]		:If we really need a distinction, we could use the one from the character template: [[Template:Characters]]
	:Anyone who has a large regular role, but isn't in the main credits is major. Tyrol, Helo, Cally, Gaeta, etc. Though maybe we should group them into "main", "supporting" and "recurring" too. That makes a bit more sense --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 12:13, 15 February 2007 (CST)		:Anyone who has a large regular role, but isn't in the main credits is major. Tyrol, Helo, Cally, Gaeta, etc. Though maybe we should group them into "main", "supporting" and "recurring" too. That makes a bit more sense --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 12:13, 15 February 2007 (CST)
	::What I'm saying is that that isn't possible to do objectively. When did Racetrack and Kat go from "recurring" to "supporting"? --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 12:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)		::What I'm saying is that that isn't possible to do objectively. When did Racetrack and Kat go from "recurring" to "supporting"? --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:15, 15 February 2007 (CST)
	:::I'd say they are still supporting characters. I like Racetrack, but the number of scenes she carries is very low. Kat is more debatable as she had 1 1/2 episodes with a very large role. But you're right. It's hard to do in some cases --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 12:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)		:::I'd say they are still supporting characters. I like Racetrack, but the number of scenes she carries is very low. Kat is more debatable as she had 1 1/2 episodes with a very large role. But you're right. It's hard to do in some cases --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 12:20, 15 February 2007 (CST)
	::::Is it even an important distinction? I mean... when this thing gets going full steam splitting them into only two categories is still going to leave a VERY large list on one of the categories (whichever way you split it). Fortunately, it's pretty flexible such that we can easily subdivide it as needed. So... throw out all categories and sort by some criteria (first appearance then last name then first name, just names, etc.)? Add more categories? I think it'd help me visualize it better the more it gets filled out. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 12:21, 15 February 2007 (CST)		::::Is it even an important distinction? I mean... when this thing gets going full steam splitting them into only two categories is still going to leave a VERY large list on one of the categories (whichever way you split it). Fortunately, it's pretty flexible such that we can easily subdivide it as needed. So... throw out all categories and sort by some criteria (first appearance then last name then first name, just names, etc.)? Add more categories? I think it'd help me visualize it better the more it gets filled out. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 12:21, 15 February 2007 (CST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:38, 30 December 2007
Line 55:		Line 55:
	:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)		:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)
	::::Should we do the same matrix idea, but mark X where they do not appear? [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 11:28, 30 December 2007 (CST)		::::Should we do the same matrix idea, but mark X where they do not appear? [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 11:28, 30 December 2007 (CST)
			:::::In my view, that's unnecessary, since it's fine the way it is now. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 12:38, 30 December 2007 (CST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:28, 30 December 2007
Line 54:		Line 54:
	::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)		::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)
	:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)		:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)
			::::Should we do the same matrix idea, but mark X where they do not appear? [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 11:28, 30 December 2007 (CST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:57, 30 December 2007
Line 53:		Line 53:
	:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)		:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)
	::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)		::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)
			:::Good idea :) --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 10:57, 30 December 2007 (CST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:55, 30 December 2007
Line 52:		Line 52:
	::::It should be noted that Season 2.0 alone lists 23 characters. We might as well list 30 there. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope\|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope\|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:35, 9 May 2007 (CDT)		::::It should be noted that Season 2.0 alone lists 23 characters. We might as well list 30 there. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope\|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope\|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:35, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
	:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)		:Not to drag and old horse, but include the top 6 main characters, Starbuck, Apollo, Husker, Roslin, Six, and Baltar, would just add a mess. Not including them was our correct approach in the end. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 23:11, 29 December 2007 (CST)
			::Because absence of the seven main characters was more the exception than the rule, I've created a subpage; [[Central Character absences (RDM)]]. It probably needs a check for its accuracy. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 10:55, 30 December 2007 (CST)