Talk:Humanoid Cylon/Archive3 - Revision history

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2008-06-30T05:03:42Z

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	:::::In "Precipice" they take a vote about cracking down in the insurgency. Every model present says "'''We''' agree", and at one point Caprica-Six says to another Six "Most of us do, anyway". So it isn't unanimous there. As they are individuals with sometimes different views, that probably isn't practical either. For me, the issue is that Boomer votes against her model line. More Eights votes against reconfiguration, but she - as the apparent spokesperson - says yes. Though why they don't just use the total vote if they know it, isn't that clear with this interpretation, but that Boomer's vote would supersede all the other Eights' votes doesn't make sense either. Unless she somehow has the power to speak for all Eights. And that's also what we have noted on [[Precipice#Analysis]] -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 22:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		:::::In "Precipice" they take a vote about cracking down in the insurgency. Every model present says "'''We''' agree", and at one point Caprica-Six says to another Six "Most of us do, anyway". So it isn't unanimous there. As they are individuals with sometimes different views, that probably isn't practical either. For me, the issue is that Boomer votes against her model line. More Eights votes against reconfiguration, but she - as the apparent spokesperson - says yes. Though why they don't just use the total vote if they know it, isn't that clear with this interpretation, but that Boomer's vote would supersede all the other Eights' votes doesn't make sense either. Unless she somehow has the power to speak for all Eights. And that's also what we have noted on [[Precipice#Analysis]] -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 22:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
	:What we have seen over the course of the show is the gradual breakup of Cylon society, owing largly to the human influence upon them. To me the line "Consensus always used to be so easy" (I forget the episode) implies that disputes and divisions were rare (possibly non-existent). "There's no law, there's no edict" to me implies that the Cylons, believing themselves to be without sin, hadn't constructed a social system that could adequately deal with such disputes. In particular the boxing of D'Anna made a system which was just about tenable into one that [[Cylon Civil War\|fails absolutely]]. My suspicion is that there's no written law that says that Boomer could or could not do what she did, but it was sufficient for Cavil to cynically claim a majority, morally justified or not. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 22:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)		:What we have seen over the course of the show is the gradual breakup of Cylon society, owing largly to the human influence upon them. To me the line "Consensus always used to be so easy" (I forget the episode) implies that disputes and divisions were rare (possibly non-existent). "There's no law, there's no edict" to me implies that the Cylons, believing themselves to be without sin, hadn't constructed a social system that could adequately deal with such disputes. In particular the boxing of D'Anna made a system which was just about tenable into one that [[Cylon Civil War\|fails absolutely]]. My suspicion is that there's no written law that says that Boomer could or could not do what she did, but it was sufficient for Cavil to cynically claim a majority, morally justified or not. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 22:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			== Article needing cleanup ==

			I've cleaned parts of these articles, the "Known Cylon Models" and the "human/Cylon hybrids". Are there anything for me to clean up and revise? [[User:Starkiller\|Starkiller]] 03:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

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2008-05-04T05:00:53Z

Archiving 1 thread(s) from Talk:Humanoid Cylon.

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	I have a Theory that the Humano-Cylon Model represent the Twelve Gods. I will have to research and decide which ones they represent but hey It's a good Idea. [[User:Silversword\|Silversword]] 02:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)		I have a Theory that the Humano-Cylon Model represent the Twelve Gods. I will have to research and decide which ones they represent but hey It's a good Idea. [[User:Silversword\|Silversword]] 02:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
	: You're welcome to talk about it on our [http://www.battlestarforum.com Battlestar Forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)		: You're welcome to talk about it on our [http://www.battlestarforum.com Battlestar Forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
			== Number of Cylons ==

			Sorry if this is already in the article (I couldn't see a reference to it) but I think there are an equal number of each Cylon model.

			Spoilers for season 4, episode 2 follow:

			Since there is a deadlock with the vote between the 7 Cylon models, we can infer that there are as many Ones, Fours, and Fives as there are Twos, Sixes, and Eights.

			Either there are an equal number of the pro/anti-lobotomy Cylons models _just_ on the baseships concerned with the Raiders (since it would be unlikely for _all_ the Cylons to vote, but this implies that there is a 'rule' against, say, a Six trying to find an equivalent to Boomer on another baseship), or _all_ Cylons voted and there are an equal number the pro/anti models.

			I think it's safe to infer that if there are equal numbers of pro/anti models, then there are equal numbers of each Cylon model on each baseship (this implies you can't have 'outside' voters), though I don't think it too much of a stretch to say there are an equal number of Cylon models.
			[[User:FredTheDeadHead\|FredTheDeadHead]] 10:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			:That's not how the voting process works. First they vote within their models to determine the total vote for one model, then that vote is tallied with the votes of the other models. It's not that each individual ''copy'' has one vote towards the end result, but only towards the ''model''. The copies can only influence how their model votes in the final vote. Sort of like the US electoral college. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 11:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			::I'm not sure I understand your explanation, and I'm a Limey so I don't understand US politics too well. In 'Six of One' a Cavil says that Boomer has "voted to reconfigure", so each copy has a vote to spend. Do you mean that each copies vote goes toward determining the model's consensus, rather than the decisions? So Boomer's vote would put the Eight's in a state of contention, so they have no vote since there isn't a consensus? [[User:FredTheDeadHead\|FredTheDeadHead]] 12:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			:::Boomer goes against her model's wishes. The other Eights voted ''no'', but Boomer goes against that and votes ''yes''. That's why the others make such a fuss about her decision. That there is only one vote per model in the final vote, which in turn is determined by another voting process within each model was previously established during the New Caprica arc. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			::::Do you have some specifics about the New Caprica vote? I must admit I find what happened unclear. What I read was that all the copies of a model have always been unanimous, but Boomer broke that rule. Though Sharon/Athena obviously is an even bigger break of the rules than Boomer, so I am not sure why she was so shocking.--[[User:Bradtem\|Bradtem]] 21:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			:::::In "Precipice" they take a vote about cracking down in the insurgency. Every model present says "'''We''' agree", and at one point Caprica-Six says to another Six "Most of us do, anyway". So it isn't unanimous there. As they are individuals with sometimes different views, that probably isn't practical either. For me, the issue is that Boomer votes against her model line. More Eights votes against reconfiguration, but she - as the apparent spokesperson - says yes. Though why they don't just use the total vote if they know it, isn't that clear with this interpretation, but that Boomer's vote would supersede all the other Eights' votes doesn't make sense either. Unless she somehow has the power to speak for all Eights. And that's also what we have noted on [[Precipice#Analysis]] -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 22:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			:What we have seen over the course of the show is the gradual breakup of Cylon society, owing largly to the human influence upon them. To me the line "Consensus always used to be so easy" (I forget the episode) implies that disputes and divisions were rare (possibly non-existent). "There's no law, there's no edict" to me implies that the Cylons, believing themselves to be without sin, hadn't constructed a social system that could adequately deal with such disputes. In particular the boxing of D'Anna made a system which was just about tenable into one that [[Cylon Civil War\|fails absolutely]]. My suspicion is that there's no written law that says that Boomer could or could not do what she did, but it was sufficient for Cavil to cynically claim a majority, morally justified or not. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 22:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* My Twelve Gods Theory */ reply

2008-04-12T02:56:44Z

My Twelve Gods Theory: reply

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	I have a Theory that the Humano-Cylon Model represent the Twelve Gods. I will have to research and decide which ones they represent but hey It's a good Idea. [[User:Silversword\|Silversword]] 02:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)		I have a Theory that the Humano-Cylon Model represent the Twelve Gods. I will have to research and decide which ones they represent but hey It's a good Idea. [[User:Silversword\|Silversword]] 02:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
			: You're welcome to talk about it on our [http://www.battlestarforum.com Battlestar Forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Silversword: /* My Twelve Gods Theory */ new section

2008-04-12T02:17:33Z

My Twelve Gods Theory: new section

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	Our links to the RDM interview on www.thefandom.com don't seem to be working anymore, and this has caused people in the fan community to doubt the veracity of the interview and the information contained within it. Given how the interview is so important to the nature of Cylons, I thought I should mention it. --[[User:Sauron18\|Sauron18]] 14:10, 14 June 2007 (CDT)		Our links to the RDM interview on www.thefandom.com don't seem to be working anymore, and this has caused people in the fan community to doubt the veracity of the interview and the information contained within it. Given how the interview is so important to the nature of Cylons, I thought I should mention it. --[[User:Sauron18\|Sauron18]] 14:10, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

			== My Twelve Gods Theory ==

			I have a Theory that the Humano-Cylon Model represent the Twelve Gods. I will have to research and decide which ones they represent but hey It's a good Idea. [[User:Silversword\|Silversword]] 02:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

ArchiveBot: Archiving 1 thread(s) from Talk:Humanoid Cylon.

2007-06-19T20:46:46Z

Archiving 1 thread(s) from Talk:Humanoid Cylon.

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:46, 19 June 2007
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	:::I remove death references for Cylons unless permanent ([[Gina]]) or boxed. Too much clutter in that template, which for concise bullets on a character, not for extensive lists of anything. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 16:04, 4 June 2007 (CDT)		:::I remove death references for Cylons unless permanent ([[Gina]]) or boxed. Too much clutter in that template, which for concise bullets on a character, not for extensive lists of anything. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 16:04, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
	::The only "death" we know of for certain would be Gina, since her consciousness has absolutely no way of being retrieved or reintegrated. As I understand it, boxing of a Cylon model isn't "death", but merely putting a Cylon in "cold storage". While it might be doubtful that the Cylons would "unbox" a boxed Cylon, there is still a possibility that it can be done. With that, boxing isn't really full and total death, a la Gina. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 16:05, 4 June 2007 (CDT)		::The only "death" we know of for certain would be Gina, since her consciousness has absolutely no way of being retrieved or reintegrated. As I understand it, boxing of a Cylon model isn't "death", but merely putting a Cylon in "cold storage". While it might be doubtful that the Cylons would "unbox" a boxed Cylon, there is still a possibility that it can be done. With that, boxing isn't really full and total death, a la Gina. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 16:05, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
			== Link Problem ==

			Our links to the RDM interview on www.thefandom.com don't seem to be working anymore, and this has caused people in the fan community to doubt the veracity of the interview and the information contained within it. Given how the interview is so important to the nature of Cylons, I thought I should mention it. --[[User:Sauron18\|Sauron18]] 14:10, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

ArchiveBot: Archiving 2 thread(s) from Talk:Humanoid Cylon.

2007-06-17T17:01:20Z

Archiving 2 thread(s) from Talk:Humanoid Cylon.

New page

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== Term "significant seven" ==

We've used various names for the original faction of 7 Cylons seen in the show. RDM revealed that the internal writer's term for them is the "significant seven" (a pun on the movie title) so I got the impression we try to use the internal terms rather than trying to make up a term, but I've seen edits in both directions. Likewise the term "final five" which is actually used in scripts (though I have always though it odd as a term the 7 would use for themselves.) If people don't like the writer's term we should standardize on one term which may even get a page -- first seven, original seven, "the seven," "genocidal seven" etc.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 02:42, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
: We try to use the same terms that the writers use, more often than not. So, yes, "Significant Seven" and the "Final Five" should be the terms we use -- until something better comes along. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 05:09, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
::OK. I've updated the page with the reference in the "Final five" section (where its most germane) and created a redirect for any uses of "Significant seven" to go to that section. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:30, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

== Listing death of Cylon humanoids? ==

I was under the impression that Cylons can't die unless they can't resurrect. Death is permanent, is it not? The "Death" listings are only destructions of the body, not of the mind. As far as I'm concerned, only those that didn't resurrect after suffering bodily destruction are dead.

In the Elder Scrolls fantasy universe, the Daedra are a group of higher beings immune to death in a similar manner (though not reliant on some apparatus for resurrection). They are not considered "killed" when they suffer destruction of their corporeal form, but are called "Banished", because of their immunity to death.

I propose that individual cylon humanoids have "death" and "resurrection" made separate from each other, as they don't truly die unless they can't resurrect upon loss of their body. --[[user:MadCat|MadCat]], 2:11 PM CDT June 4, 2007

: I'm not opposed to removing the various models' deaths from the "death" portion of the infobox, unless they die permanently (i.e. they're not able to resurrect). Deaths of their bodies, whether they were shot, doesn't count as true "death" to Cylons. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 13:57, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
: Even listing resurrections is not necessarily desirable. We had that with Leoben, and he "died" so often that it was just clutter and thankfully removed. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:00, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
::I removed the death list for [[Caprica-Six]], and I suggest we remove it for the other Cylons as well. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:43, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
:Something I just thought up that may be a gray area in this regard: What of Boxing? Would that be considered death in this context? Or is it not because the consciousness wasn't lost? --[[user:MadCat|MadCat]], 3:22 PM CDT June 4, 2007
::In my opinion, boxing is death. The only "deaths" we've got left for humanoid Cylons are for [[Gina]] (who actually died without being resurrected) and for [[Number Three]] (whose entire line was boxed). I've removed the death list for [[Sharon Valerii]], as she's still alive. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:12, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
:::I remove death references for Cylons unless permanent ([[Gina]]) or boxed. Too much clutter in that template, which for concise bullets on a character, not for extensive lists of anything. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:04, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
::The only "death" we know of for certain would be Gina, since her consciousness has absolutely no way of being retrieved or reintegrated. As I understand it, boxing of a Cylon model isn't "death", but merely putting a Cylon in "cold storage". While it might be doubtful that the Cylons would "unbox" a boxed Cylon, there is still a possibility that it can be done. With that, boxing isn't really full and total death, a la Gina. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:05, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:00, 4 May 2008
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	I have a Theory that the Humano-Cylon Model represent the Twelve Gods. I will have to research and decide which ones they represent but hey It's a good Idea. [[User:Silversword\|Silversword]] 02:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)		I have a Theory that the Humano-Cylon Model represent the Twelve Gods. I will have to research and decide which ones they represent but hey It's a good Idea. [[User:Silversword\|Silversword]] 02:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
	: You're welcome to talk about it on our [http://www.battlestarforum.com Battlestar Forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)		: You're welcome to talk about it on our [http://www.battlestarforum.com Battlestar Forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
			== Number of Cylons ==

			Sorry if this is already in the article (I couldn't see a reference to it) but I think there are an equal number of each Cylon model.

			Spoilers for season 4, episode 2 follow:

			Since there is a deadlock with the vote between the 7 Cylon models, we can infer that there are as many Ones, Fours, and Fives as there are Twos, Sixes, and Eights.

			Either there are an equal number of the pro/anti-lobotomy Cylons models _just_ on the baseships concerned with the Raiders (since it would be unlikely for _all_ the Cylons to vote, but this implies that there is a 'rule' against, say, a Six trying to find an equivalent to Boomer on another baseship), or _all_ Cylons voted and there are an equal number the pro/anti models.

			I think it's safe to infer that if there are equal numbers of pro/anti models, then there are equal numbers of each Cylon model on each baseship (this implies you can't have 'outside' voters), though I don't think it too much of a stretch to say there are an equal number of Cylon models.
			[[User:FredTheDeadHead\|FredTheDeadHead]] 10:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			:That's not how the voting process works. First they vote within their models to determine the total vote for one model, then that vote is tallied with the votes of the other models. It's not that each individual ''copy'' has one vote towards the end result, but only towards the ''model''. The copies can only influence how their model votes in the final vote. Sort of like the US electoral college. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 11:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			::I'm not sure I understand your explanation, and I'm a Limey so I don't understand US politics too well. In 'Six of One' a Cavil says that Boomer has "voted to reconfigure", so each copy has a vote to spend. Do you mean that each copies vote goes toward determining the model's consensus, rather than the decisions? So Boomer's vote would put the Eight's in a state of contention, so they have no vote since there isn't a consensus? [[User:FredTheDeadHead\|FredTheDeadHead]] 12:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			:::Boomer goes against her model's wishes. The other Eights voted ''no'', but Boomer goes against that and votes ''yes''. That's why the others make such a fuss about her decision. That there is only one vote per model in the final vote, which in turn is determined by another voting process within each model was previously established during the New Caprica arc. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 13:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			::::Do you have some specifics about the New Caprica vote? I must admit I find what happened unclear. What I read was that all the copies of a model have always been unanimous, but Boomer broke that rule. Though Sharon/Athena obviously is an even bigger break of the rules than Boomer, so I am not sure why she was so shocking.--[[User:Bradtem\|Bradtem]] 21:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			:::::In "Precipice" they take a vote about cracking down in the insurgency. Every model present says "'''We''' agree", and at one point Caprica-Six says to another Six "Most of us do, anyway". So it isn't unanimous there. As they are individuals with sometimes different views, that probably isn't practical either. For me, the issue is that Boomer votes against her model line. More Eights votes against reconfiguration, but she - as the apparent spokesperson - says yes. Though why they don't just use the total vote if they know it, isn't that clear with this interpretation, but that Boomer's vote would supersede all the other Eights' votes doesn't make sense either. Unless she somehow has the power to speak for all Eights. And that's also what we have noted on [[Precipice#Analysis]] -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 22:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
			:What we have seen over the course of the show is the gradual breakup of Cylon society, owing largly to the human influence upon them. To me the line "Consensus always used to be so easy" (I forget the episode) implies that disputes and divisions were rare (possibly non-existent). "There's no law, there's no edict" to me implies that the Cylons, believing themselves to be without sin, hadn't constructed a social system that could adequately deal with such disputes. In particular the boxing of D'Anna made a system which was just about tenable into one that [[Cylon Civil War\|fails absolutely]]. My suspicion is that there's no written law that says that Boomer could or could not do what she did, but it was sufficient for Cavil to cynically claim a majority, morally justified or not. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 22:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)