Talk:Hero/Archive1 - Revision history

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "[[Image:" to "[[File:"

2025-06-24T20:12:54Z

Text replacement - "[[Image:" to "[[File:"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:12, 24 June 2025
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	Here's a screencap. As you can see, they're pure white silhouettes. - no black eyes or necklaces or other decorations.		Here's a screencap. As you can see, they're pure white silhouettes. - no black eyes or necklaces or other decorations.
	[[~~Image~~:Five figures.jpg]]		[[File:Five figures.jpg]]
	--[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:27, 1 December 2006 (CST)		--[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:27, 1 December 2006 (CST)

April Arcus: name change

2020-04-11T08:41:09Z

name change

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:41, 11 April 2020
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	:--[[User:Gougef\|FrankieG]] 12:06, 25 November 2006 (CST)		:--[[User:Gougef\|FrankieG]] 12:06, 25 November 2006 (CST)
	did anyone see left side one of five figures has a neckless or medal--[[User:mustah\|mustah]]		did anyone see left side one of five figures has a neckless or medal--[[User:mustah\|mustah]]
	::I'll try to remember to put a podcast citation "hook" in the transcript around the part where he mentions the five figures for the note ~~Peter~~ just added. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 12:18, 1 December 2006 (CST)		::I'll try to remember to put a podcast citation "hook" in the transcript around the part where he mentions the five figures for the note April just added. --[[User:Steelviper\|Steelviper]] 12:18, 1 December 2006 (CST)

	Here's a screencap. As you can see, they're pure white silhouettes. - no black eyes or necklaces or other decorations.		Here's a screencap. As you can see, they're pure white silhouettes. - no black eyes or necklaces or other decorations.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

2020-04-11T01:53:57Z

Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

ArchiveBot: Archiving 1 thread(s) from Talk:Hero.

2008-03-13T05:00:39Z

Archiving 1 thread(s) from Talk:Hero.

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:00, 13 March 2008
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	:That would be fanwanky. It's simply an error. I changed all other articles to assume that the mission took place ''six'' years before the Cylon attack. That fits with the document seen in the episode (although these aren't always reliable by themselves) and the dialogue established in other episodes. And there is just no reason why he would have to change ships for one mission. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 05:17, 25 November 2007 (CST)		:That would be fanwanky. It's simply an error. I changed all other articles to assume that the mission took place ''six'' years before the Cylon attack. That fits with the document seen in the episode (although these aren't always reliable by themselves) and the dialogue established in other episodes. And there is just no reason why he would have to change ships for one mission. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 05:17, 25 November 2007 (CST)
			== Unrealistic Transfers ==

			I added this text regarding the notion of Gaeta or Tyrol being transferred between Galactica and Valkyrie with Adama back to the article, after [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] removed it:
			:''This scenario is highly unrealistic, however...''
			While I readily admit that the content is subjective, I think in its given context and purpose (that is, debunking attempts at fanwanking the discontinuity by altering Gaeta and Tyrol's established histories), it's an important statement. Part of the reason we adopted this analysis in the first place was to avoid the accumulation of fancruft at both the [[Felix Gaeta]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] articles (see [[Talk:Timeline (RDM)#"Hero" Timeline Issues, revisited]]). I feel that to that end, the statement should be allowed to stand. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 20:57, 6 February 2008 (CST)
			::Indeed, it is also possible to create a situation of anti-fanwanking, which is to categorically rule out plausible scenarios. Is it unheard of for the guy/gal at the top to "bring along" trusted and key people wherever he or she goes? How long has Tigh served as right-hand man to Adama? Cain and Belzen had known each other and worked together for years. And sometimes its less useful to try to intuit, infer, or out-of-hand dismiss inconsistencies as contrary to what must be correct, than to just document and note the inconsistencies and errors, which may or may not be addressed by the ultimate authorities -- the show and its writers. Sometimes the thing is what it is ... and we are along for the ride.-- [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] 21:13, 6 February 2008 (CST)
			:::While I would like to agree with you Fred, the fact of the matter is that Adama ''botched'' the mission. As a result (and per Eick's comments from the [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion Season Three\|season three companion]]), his assignment to ''Galactica'' was as ''punishment''. Therefore, any request to the Colonial Fleet for personnel transfers would have likely been railroaded, simply out of spite and politics -- and logically, you don't move junior officers. You might move Tigh as well, but not Gaeta, Tyrol, or Boomer. It simply wouldn't happen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:18, 6 February 2008 (CST)
			::::Loyalty can go both ways -- "follow you through hell and high water" -- they could have followed him on their own. They certainly have strong enough attachments and allegiances, more out of respect for the man and not just the rank. And since following a disgraced commander to a soon-to-be-mothballed battlestar is conceivably a low-prestige posting, I doubt there was much competition.-- [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] 21:28, 6 February 2008 (CST)
			::::I disagree ... Adama did not botch the mission, rather the mission did not turn out as planned, and Adama took the fall, probably set up as the patsy as Roslin suggests. And like a good soldier, Adama fell on his sword for executing an ill-advised and provocative mission. But my main point (about the plausibility) still stands, his crew could have chosen to stick with him from one post to another, if he would have them along. And I don't see how taking out the comment of unrealism substantially took away from the factual basis of the sentence. Sometimes we make way too many assumptions, and similar to nature, fandom often hates the absence of neatly-fiitting facts ...-- [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] 21:38, 6 February 2008 (CST)

			:I acknowledge Eick's comments, and it's nice that they thought about it, but it still doesn't make all that much sense. There are two scenarios:
			#Adama only transferred to ''Galactica'' after the ''Valkyrie'' mission. That still contradicts other statements that Valerii and Thrace served there under him for two years.
			#Adama and Tigh went to ''Valkyrie'' for a special mission and then back. First, it should have been stated that way. Second, there is no reason for Adama to conduct that mission. It could have been done by ''Valkyrie'''s commander. And from a real-world POV, they could have just used ''Galactica''. There was no reason to introduce another battlestar. So 1.) makes more sense.
			:As for the comment. I don't really have a problem either way. I do consider it unrealistic that so many people transferred with Adama, but the removal doesn't hurt the argument that much. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 03:58, 7 February 2008 (CST)

			::How about this version of 2:
			:::The new ship Valkyrie was attached temporarily to BSG 95 (or formed some other more transient two-battlestar group with Adama in command), partly as a shakedown cruise, and partly to get Galactica's crew acquainted with the ship that was intended to be many of their new postings (and Adama's new command) after Galactica's decommissioning. As such, the crew is made up of many of Galactica's personnel. Galactica, already practically obsolete, is left to serenely orbit Caprica with an almost skeleton crew whilst the superior ship Valkyrie conducts a few useful missions.
			:::After the disastrous reconnaissance mission Adama and Tigh (and by extension the rest of the crew they bought with), are punished by being pushed back onto the "sinking ship" of Galactica (it being a black-op they couldn't punish them overtly) so the old commander can be retired without any fuss.
			::It's [[fanwanking]] I know, but the producers probably have a viable backstory as well, and Eick seems to be fairly confident of it. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 06:19, 7 February 2008 (CST)
			:::These types of explanations introduce numerous plot points that strain credibility and have no external justification, just to defend a blatant continuity error - this is fanwanking in the worst way. The simplest way to deal with this is just to change the dates from dialogue to match the dossier, which is already a canon document anyway. Occam's razor should prevail here. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 10 February 2008 (CST)
			::::I know, I know, I was just trying to prove a point that there are probably thousands of similar ''somewhat''-feasible explanations. Our problem here that Occam's razor gets a bit blunt when [[David Eick]] ''specifically denies'' that they have a continuity error. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 05:01, 11 February 2008 (CST)
			:::::More like he ''believes'' - strongly - that there isn't one. But I think they overlooked the many statements about how long Adama spent with other people on ''Galactica''. By moving the mission a few years back, everything makes perfect sense. I also like that ''Galactica'' was supposed to be a punishment and a way to quietly end his career. Just not at that time. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 06:37, 11 February 2008 (CST)

ArchiveBot: Archiving 1 thread(s) from Talk:Hero.

2008-01-15T18:26:35Z

Archiving 1 thread(s) from Talk:Hero.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:26, 15 January 2008
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	Can anyone who has the iTunes, check to see if Lucy was also included in the Special Guest Stars list. Thanks. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 12:33, 9 December 2006 (CST)		Can anyone who has the iTunes, check to see if Lucy was also included in the Special Guest Stars list. Thanks. [[User:Shane\|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane\|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane\|E]])</sup> 12:33, 9 December 2006 (CST)
			== Added some changes to noteworthy dialogue, and summary. ==

			I fleshed out the summary to cover Bulldog's mention of a Cylon sickness (whether real or faked,) and some more detail on Adama's understanding of how he supposedly provoked the Cylons.
			I also added a part of Tigh's speech to Novacek, as it gives some insight on his persistent malaise, and Adama's quip when asked about the medal, partly for humour value and partly because it sums up his attitude to the whole affair.

			* can it be that Adame commandes the Battlestar Valkyrie just for this one mission?
			If he does it would be no continuity error. And he said in the briefing, that he needs HIS man.

			:That would be fanwanky. It's simply an error. I changed all other articles to assume that the mission took place ''six'' years before the Cylon attack. That fits with the document seen in the episode (although these aren't always reliable by themselves) and the dialogue established in other episodes. And there is just no reason why he would have to change ships for one mission. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 05:17, 25 November 2007 (CST)

ArchiveBot: Archiving 18 thread(s) from Talk:Hero.

2007-08-27T15:48:55Z

Archiving 18 thread(s) from Talk:Hero.

Show changes

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:00, 13 March 2008
Line 258:		Line 258:

	:That would be fanwanky. It's simply an error. I changed all other articles to assume that the mission took place ''six'' years before the Cylon attack. That fits with the document seen in the episode (although these aren't always reliable by themselves) and the dialogue established in other episodes. And there is just no reason why he would have to change ships for one mission. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 05:17, 25 November 2007 (CST)		:That would be fanwanky. It's simply an error. I changed all other articles to assume that the mission took place ''six'' years before the Cylon attack. That fits with the document seen in the episode (although these aren't always reliable by themselves) and the dialogue established in other episodes. And there is just no reason why he would have to change ships for one mission. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 05:17, 25 November 2007 (CST)
			== Unrealistic Transfers ==

			I added this text regarding the notion of Gaeta or Tyrol being transferred between Galactica and Valkyrie with Adama back to the article, after [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] removed it:
			:''This scenario is highly unrealistic, however...''
			While I readily admit that the content is subjective, I think in its given context and purpose (that is, debunking attempts at fanwanking the discontinuity by altering Gaeta and Tyrol's established histories), it's an important statement. Part of the reason we adopted this analysis in the first place was to avoid the accumulation of fancruft at both the [[Felix Gaeta]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] articles (see [[Talk:Timeline (RDM)#"Hero" Timeline Issues, revisited]]). I feel that to that end, the statement should be allowed to stand. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 20:57, 6 February 2008 (CST)
			::Indeed, it is also possible to create a situation of anti-fanwanking, which is to categorically rule out plausible scenarios. Is it unheard of for the guy/gal at the top to "bring along" trusted and key people wherever he or she goes? How long has Tigh served as right-hand man to Adama? Cain and Belzen had known each other and worked together for years. And sometimes its less useful to try to intuit, infer, or out-of-hand dismiss inconsistencies as contrary to what must be correct, than to just document and note the inconsistencies and errors, which may or may not be addressed by the ultimate authorities -- the show and its writers. Sometimes the thing is what it is ... and we are along for the ride.-- [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] 21:13, 6 February 2008 (CST)
			:::While I would like to agree with you Fred, the fact of the matter is that Adama ''botched'' the mission. As a result (and per Eick's comments from the [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion Season Three\|season three companion]]), his assignment to ''Galactica'' was as ''punishment''. Therefore, any request to the Colonial Fleet for personnel transfers would have likely been railroaded, simply out of spite and politics -- and logically, you don't move junior officers. You might move Tigh as well, but not Gaeta, Tyrol, or Boomer. It simply wouldn't happen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:18, 6 February 2008 (CST)
			::::Loyalty can go both ways -- "follow you through hell and high water" -- they could have followed him on their own. They certainly have strong enough attachments and allegiances, more out of respect for the man and not just the rank. And since following a disgraced commander to a soon-to-be-mothballed battlestar is conceivably a low-prestige posting, I doubt there was much competition.-- [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] 21:28, 6 February 2008 (CST)
			::::I disagree ... Adama did not botch the mission, rather the mission did not turn out as planned, and Adama took the fall, probably set up as the patsy as Roslin suggests. And like a good soldier, Adama fell on his sword for executing an ill-advised and provocative mission. But my main point (about the plausibility) still stands, his crew could have chosen to stick with him from one post to another, if he would have them along. And I don't see how taking out the comment of unrealism substantially took away from the factual basis of the sentence. Sometimes we make way too many assumptions, and similar to nature, fandom often hates the absence of neatly-fiitting facts ...-- [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] 21:38, 6 February 2008 (CST)

			:I acknowledge Eick's comments, and it's nice that they thought about it, but it still doesn't make all that much sense. There are two scenarios:
			#Adama only transferred to ''Galactica'' after the ''Valkyrie'' mission. That still contradicts other statements that Valerii and Thrace served there under him for two years.
			#Adama and Tigh went to ''Valkyrie'' for a special mission and then back. First, it should have been stated that way. Second, there is no reason for Adama to conduct that mission. It could have been done by ''Valkyrie'''s commander. And from a real-world POV, they could have just used ''Galactica''. There was no reason to introduce another battlestar. So 1.) makes more sense.
			:As for the comment. I don't really have a problem either way. I do consider it unrealistic that so many people transferred with Adama, but the removal doesn't hurt the argument that much. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 03:58, 7 February 2008 (CST)

			::How about this version of 2:
			:::The new ship Valkyrie was attached temporarily to BSG 95 (or formed some other more transient two-battlestar group with Adama in command), partly as a shakedown cruise, and partly to get Galactica's crew acquainted with the ship that was intended to be many of their new postings (and Adama's new command) after Galactica's decommissioning. As such, the crew is made up of many of Galactica's personnel. Galactica, already practically obsolete, is left to serenely orbit Caprica with an almost skeleton crew whilst the superior ship Valkyrie conducts a few useful missions.
			:::After the disastrous reconnaissance mission Adama and Tigh (and by extension the rest of the crew they bought with), are punished by being pushed back onto the "sinking ship" of Galactica (it being a black-op they couldn't punish them overtly) so the old commander can be retired without any fuss.
			::It's [[fanwanking]] I know, but the producers probably have a viable backstory as well, and Eick seems to be fairly confident of it. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 06:19, 7 February 2008 (CST)
			:::These types of explanations introduce numerous plot points that strain credibility and have no external justification, just to defend a blatant continuity error - this is fanwanking in the worst way. The simplest way to deal with this is just to change the dates from dialogue to match the dossier, which is already a canon document anyway. Occam's razor should prevail here. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 10 February 2008 (CST)
			::::I know, I know, I was just trying to prove a point that there are probably thousands of similar ''somewhat''-feasible explanations. Our problem here that Occam's razor gets a bit blunt when [[David Eick]] ''specifically denies'' that they have a continuity error. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 05:01, 11 February 2008 (CST)
			:::::More like he ''believes'' - strongly - that there isn't one. But I think they overlooked the many statements about how long Adama spent with other people on ''Galactica''. By moving the mission a few years back, everything makes perfect sense. I also like that ''Galactica'' was supposed to be a punishment and a way to quietly end his career. Just not at that time. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 06:37, 11 February 2008 (CST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:53, 11 April 2020
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	:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])		:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
	:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.		:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
	:--[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)		:--[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)


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	::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas\|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)		::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas\|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

	:::The network thing isn't hugely problematic. We have no notion of how old ''Valkyrie'' was. ''Atlantia'' was at least 17 years old at the time of the attack (based on Adama's dossier), and was still worthy to serve as Nagala's flagship in the Miniseries. ''Galactica'' was even older. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 01:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)		:::The network thing isn't hugely problematic. We have no notion of how old ''Valkyrie'' was. ''Atlantia'' was at least 17 years old at the time of the attack (based on Adama's dossier), and was still worthy to serve as Nagala's flagship in the Miniseries. ''Galactica'' was even older. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 01:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)

	:Adama's dossier may or may not help matters. If the screencap interpretation in the article is correct, then it is currently 21356 - based on the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning - which is consistent with what we know about Colonial Day and the Armistice. Therefore the Fall of the Colonies occurred in 21354, and that means the Valkyrie incident occurred in 21353 or thereabouts. However, the dossier goes on to state that Adama took command of Valkyrie in 21345, and Galactica in 21348. If the dossier is correct, then the Valkyrie incident had to take place in 21347 or 21348...which means that Adama's "graceful retirement" lasted for 6 years until the Fall. If this timeline is correct, then it basically blows all the dialogue in this episode out of the water, but validates everything we've seen and heard in the first two seasons. Of course, this is all contingent on the dossier being correctly interpreted - and I personally cannot make out the last two dates on screen. --[[User:Xenophon10k\|Xenophon10k]] 19:55, 21 November 2006 (CST)		:Adama's dossier may or may not help matters. If the screencap interpretation in the article is correct, then it is currently 21356 - based on the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning - which is consistent with what we know about Colonial Day and the Armistice. Therefore the Fall of the Colonies occurred in 21354, and that means the Valkyrie incident occurred in 21353 or thereabouts. However, the dossier goes on to state that Adama took command of Valkyrie in 21345, and Galactica in 21348. If the dossier is correct, then the Valkyrie incident had to take place in 21347 or 21348...which means that Adama's "graceful retirement" lasted for 6 years until the Fall. If this timeline is correct, then it basically blows all the dialogue in this episode out of the water, but validates everything we've seen and heard in the first two seasons. Of course, this is all contingent on the dossier being correctly interpreted - and I personally cannot make out the last two dates on screen. --[[User:Xenophon10k\|Xenophon10k]] 19:55, 21 November 2006 (CST)

	::That was the conclusion we came to above. The Dossier is [[:image:dossier.png\|entirely legible]] and is visible on screen for over sixty frames. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 22:31, 21 November 2006 (CST)		::That was the conclusion we came to above. The Dossier is [[:image:dossier.png\|entirely legible]] and is visible on screen for over sixty frames. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 22:31, 21 November 2006 (CST)

	:::I missed that part. That image is a lot clearer than the screenshot I had, as well. --[[User:Xenophon10k\|Xenophon10k]] 10:24, 22 November 2006 (CST)		:::I missed that part. That image is a lot clearer than the screenshot I had, as well. --[[User:Xenophon10k\|Xenophon10k]] 10:24, 22 November 2006 (CST)
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	Here's a screencap. As you can see, they're pure white silhouettes. - no black eyes or necklaces or other decorations.		Here's a screencap. As you can see, they're pure white silhouettes. - no black eyes or necklaces or other decorations.
	[[Image:Five figures.jpg]]		[[Image:Five figures.jpg]]
	--[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 12:27, 1 December 2006 (CST)		--[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:27, 1 December 2006 (CST)

	== No Definitive Proof of "Cylon" (removed Question) ==		== No Definitive Proof of "Cylon" (removed Question) ==
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	I added this text regarding the notion of Gaeta or Tyrol being transferred between Galactica and Valkyrie with Adama back to the article, after [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] removed it:		I added this text regarding the notion of Gaeta or Tyrol being transferred between Galactica and Valkyrie with Adama back to the article, after [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] removed it:
	:''This scenario is highly unrealistic, however...''		:''This scenario is highly unrealistic, however...''
	While I readily admit that the content is subjective, I think in its given context and purpose (that is, debunking attempts at fanwanking the discontinuity by altering Gaeta and Tyrol's established histories), it's an important statement. Part of the reason we adopted this analysis in the first place was to avoid the accumulation of fancruft at both the [[Felix Gaeta]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] articles (see [[Talk:Timeline (RDM)#"Hero" Timeline Issues, revisited]]). I feel that to that end, the statement should be allowed to stand. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 20:57, 6 February 2008 (CST)		While I readily admit that the content is subjective, I think in its given context and purpose (that is, debunking attempts at fanwanking the discontinuity by altering Gaeta and Tyrol's established histories), it's an important statement. Part of the reason we adopted this analysis in the first place was to avoid the accumulation of fancruft at both the [[Felix Gaeta]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] articles (see [[Talk:Timeline (RDM)#"Hero" Timeline Issues, revisited]]). I feel that to that end, the statement should be allowed to stand. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 20:57, 6 February 2008 (CST)
	::Indeed, it is also possible to create a situation of anti-fanwanking, which is to categorically rule out plausible scenarios. Is it unheard of for the guy/gal at the top to "bring along" trusted and key people wherever he or she goes? How long has Tigh served as right-hand man to Adama? Cain and Belzen had known each other and worked together for years. And sometimes its less useful to try to intuit, infer, or out-of-hand dismiss inconsistencies as contrary to what must be correct, than to just document and note the inconsistencies and errors, which may or may not be addressed by the ultimate authorities -- the show and its writers. Sometimes the thing is what it is ... and we are along for the ride.-- [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] 21:13, 6 February 2008 (CST)		::Indeed, it is also possible to create a situation of anti-fanwanking, which is to categorically rule out plausible scenarios. Is it unheard of for the guy/gal at the top to "bring along" trusted and key people wherever he or she goes? How long has Tigh served as right-hand man to Adama? Cain and Belzen had known each other and worked together for years. And sometimes its less useful to try to intuit, infer, or out-of-hand dismiss inconsistencies as contrary to what must be correct, than to just document and note the inconsistencies and errors, which may or may not be addressed by the ultimate authorities -- the show and its writers. Sometimes the thing is what it is ... and we are along for the ride.-- [[User:Fredmdbud\|Fredmdbud]] 21:13, 6 February 2008 (CST)
	:::While I would like to agree with you Fred, the fact of the matter is that Adama ''botched'' the mission. As a result (and per Eick's comments from the [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion Season Three\|season three companion]]), his assignment to ''Galactica'' was as ''punishment''. Therefore, any request to the Colonial Fleet for personnel transfers would have likely been railroaded, simply out of spite and politics -- and logically, you don't move junior officers. You might move Tigh as well, but not Gaeta, Tyrol, or Boomer. It simply wouldn't happen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:18, 6 February 2008 (CST)		:::While I would like to agree with you Fred, the fact of the matter is that Adama ''botched'' the mission. As a result (and per Eick's comments from the [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion Season Three\|season three companion]]), his assignment to ''Galactica'' was as ''punishment''. Therefore, any request to the Colonial Fleet for personnel transfers would have likely been railroaded, simply out of spite and politics -- and logically, you don't move junior officers. You might move Tigh as well, but not Gaeta, Tyrol, or Boomer. It simply wouldn't happen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:18, 6 February 2008 (CST)
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	:::After the disastrous reconnaissance mission Adama and Tigh (and by extension the rest of the crew they bought with), are punished by being pushed back onto the "sinking ship" of Galactica (it being a black-op they couldn't punish them overtly) so the old commander can be retired without any fuss.		:::After the disastrous reconnaissance mission Adama and Tigh (and by extension the rest of the crew they bought with), are punished by being pushed back onto the "sinking ship" of Galactica (it being a black-op they couldn't punish them overtly) so the old commander can be retired without any fuss.
	::It's [[fanwanking]] I know, but the producers probably have a viable backstory as well, and Eick seems to be fairly confident of it. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 06:19, 7 February 2008 (CST)		::It's [[fanwanking]] I know, but the producers probably have a viable backstory as well, and Eick seems to be fairly confident of it. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 06:19, 7 February 2008 (CST)
	:::These types of explanations introduce numerous plot points that strain credibility and have no external justification, just to defend a blatant continuity error - this is fanwanking in the worst way. The simplest way to deal with this is just to change the dates from dialogue to match the dossier, which is already a canon document anyway. Occam's razor should prevail here. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 20:13, 10 February 2008 (CST)		:::These types of explanations introduce numerous plot points that strain credibility and have no external justification, just to defend a blatant continuity error - this is fanwanking in the worst way. The simplest way to deal with this is just to change the dates from dialogue to match the dossier, which is already a canon document anyway. Occam's razor should prevail here. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 20:13, 10 February 2008 (CST)
	::::I know, I know, I was just trying to prove a point that there are probably thousands of similar ''somewhat''-feasible explanations. Our problem here that Occam's razor gets a bit blunt when [[David Eick]] ''specifically denies'' that they have a continuity error. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 05:01, 11 February 2008 (CST)		::::I know, I know, I was just trying to prove a point that there are probably thousands of similar ''somewhat''-feasible explanations. Our problem here that Occam's razor gets a bit blunt when [[David Eick]] ''specifically denies'' that they have a continuity error. [[User:OTW\|OTW]] 05:01, 11 February 2008 (CST)
	:::::More like he ''believes'' - strongly - that there isn't one. But I think they overlooked the many statements about how long Adama spent with other people on ''Galactica''. By moving the mission a few years back, everything makes perfect sense. I also like that ''Galactica'' was supposed to be a punishment and a way to quietly end his career. Just not at that time. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 06:37, 11 February 2008 (CST)		:::::More like he ''believes'' - strongly - that there isn't one. But I think they overlooked the many statements about how long Adama spent with other people on ''Galactica''. By moving the mission a few years back, everything makes perfect sense. I also like that ''Galactica'' was supposed to be a punishment and a way to quietly end his career. Just not at that time. -- [[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 06:37, 11 February 2008 (CST)