Talk:Cylon Religion/Archive 1 - Revision history

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

2020-04-11T01:47:21Z

Text replacement - "Peter Farago" to "April Arcus"

Catrope: correcting link

2007-06-21T14:33:08Z

correcting link

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:33, 21 June 2007
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	This should probably be merged with content from [[God]]. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 14:26, 30 December 2005 (EST)		This should probably be merged with content from [[God (RDM)]]. --[[User:Peter Farago\|Peter Farago]] 14:26, 30 December 2005 (EST)

	:I concur and will likely begin such at some point today if it's not done before I come back to it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:28, 30 December 2005 (EST)		:I concur and will likely begin such at some point today if it's not done before I come back to it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:28, 30 December 2005 (EST)

Spencerian: /* To Merge with God... */

2007-05-31T18:09:26Z

To Merge with God...

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	:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
	::I've generally thought that the quotes were a hedge not to discuss the subject, too. I'll make a more detailed comparison and try to excise or swap about data between the articles to keep them on-topic and over-repetitive. Unless the quotes have any direct significance to how the Cylons view or worship him, I'll likely start striking some things for concision. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 14:12, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		::I've generally thought that the quotes were a hedge not to discuss the subject, too. I'll make a more detailed comparison and try to excise or swap about data between the articles to keep them on-topic and over-repetitive. Unless the quotes have any direct significance to how the Cylons view or worship him, I'll likely start striking some things for concision. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 14:12, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
			:::Update on [[God (RDM)]] done. I moved a section from there to here as it was more apropos for the comparisons between God and Colonial polythesism. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:09, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

Spencerian: /* To Merge with God... */

2007-05-25T19:12:44Z

To Merge with God...

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:12, 25 May 2007
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	...is surely a good thing (like [[memoryalpha:V'Ger\|V'Ger]] did), but in this case I'm asking about combining [[God (RDM)]] (recently disambig-ed) with this article. I think to avoid confusion we should use [[God (RDM)]] as the article, with this article name as a redirect. I don't see a lot of difference between them, although there is some analysis here that could be added or omitted altogether. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		...is surely a good thing (like [[memoryalpha:V'Ger\|V'Ger]] did), but in this case I'm asking about combining [[God (RDM)]] (recently disambig-ed) with this article. I think to avoid confusion we should use [[God (RDM)]] as the article, with this article name as a redirect. I don't see a lot of difference between them, although there is some analysis here that could be added or omitted altogether. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
	:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
			::I've generally thought that the quotes were a hedge not to discuss the subject, too. I'll make a more detailed comparison and try to excise or swap about data between the articles to keep them on-topic and over-repetitive. Unless the quotes have any direct significance to how the Cylons view or worship him, I'll likely start striking some things for concision. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 14:12, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Serenity: /* To Merge with God... */ reply

2007-05-25T19:00:01Z

To Merge with God...: reply

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	...is surely a good thing (like [[memoryalpha:V'Ger\|V'Ger]] did), but in this case I'm asking about combining [[God (RDM)]] (recently disambig-ed) with this article. I think to avoid confusion we should use [[God (RDM)]] as the article, with this article name as a redirect. I don't see a lot of difference between them, although there is some analysis here that could be added or omitted altogether. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		...is surely a good thing (like [[memoryalpha:V'Ger\|V'Ger]] did), but in this case I'm asking about combining [[God (RDM)]] (recently disambig-ed) with this article. I think to avoid confusion we should use [[God (RDM)]] as the article, with this article name as a redirect. I don't see a lot of difference between them, although there is some analysis here that could be added or omitted altogether. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
			:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Spencerian: To Merge with God...

2007-05-25T18:00:58Z

To Merge with God...

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	:FWIW, Yahweh's name is indeed not supposed to be spoken, except once a year by the High Priest. It ''is'' written out, but Jewish people substitute it for Adonai (=Lord) or other names. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]] 09:33, 22 February 2007 (CST)		:FWIW, Yahweh's name is indeed not supposed to be spoken, except once a year by the High Priest. It ''is'' written out, but Jewish people substitute it for Adonai (=Lord) or other names. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]] 09:33, 22 February 2007 (CST)

			== To Merge with God... ==

			...is surely a good thing (like [[memoryalpha:V'Ger\|V'Ger]] did), but in this case I'm asking about combining [[God (RDM)]] (recently disambig-ed) with this article. I think to avoid confusion we should use [[God (RDM)]] as the article, with this article name as a redirect. I don't see a lot of difference between them, although there is some analysis here that could be added or omitted altogether. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

Catrope: /* Different religous viewpoints per model? */ reply

2007-02-22T15:33:39Z

Different religous viewpoints per model?: reply

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	:Hi, Mevenstar. You're seeing another layer that the Cylons didn't appear to anticipate. They moved to human form and modeled themselves to twelve human archetypes to become closer to God. However, they didn't take into account that each archetype would have differing ''interpretations'' on the nature of God. As a result (among other things, I'm sure), there is a mysterious rift with five Cylons ([[Final five]]), and increasing [[Number Three\|discord between machines]] that are no longer just machines, but individuals. As you saw in "[[Downloaded]]" and in "[[Rapture]]", the Cylons have only one answer to when a fellow Cylon does not meet the status quo of behavior, who behaves way outside what that model does characteristically: [[boxing\|box 'em.]] (Be sure to sign your comments!) --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 07:56, 22 February 2007 (CST)		:Hi, Mevenstar. You're seeing another layer that the Cylons didn't appear to anticipate. They moved to human form and modeled themselves to twelve human archetypes to become closer to God. However, they didn't take into account that each archetype would have differing ''interpretations'' on the nature of God. As a result (among other things, I'm sure), there is a mysterious rift with five Cylons ([[Final five]]), and increasing [[Number Three\|discord between machines]] that are no longer just machines, but individuals. As you saw in "[[Downloaded]]" and in "[[Rapture]]", the Cylons have only one answer to when a fellow Cylon does not meet the status quo of behavior, who behaves way outside what that model does characteristically: [[boxing\|box 'em.]] (Be sure to sign your comments!) --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 07:56, 22 February 2007 (CST)

			:FWIW, Yahweh's name is indeed not supposed to be spoken, except once a year by the High Priest. It ''is'' written out, but Jewish people substitute it for Adonai (=Lord) or other names. --[[User:Catrope\|Catrope]] 09:33, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Spencerian: /* Different religous viewpoints per model? */

2007-02-22T13:56:11Z

Different religous viewpoints per model?

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	Different religious view points are hitting you from every possible angle on this show.		Different religious view points are hitting you from every possible angle on this show.
	Now Has anyone taken to to the worship of RDM I wonder? {{unsigned\|Mevenstar}}		Now Has anyone taken to to the worship of RDM I wonder? {{unsigned\|Mevenstar}}

			:Hi, Mevenstar. You're seeing another layer that the Cylons didn't appear to anticipate. They moved to human form and modeled themselves to twelve human archetypes to become closer to God. However, they didn't take into account that each archetype would have differing ''interpretations'' on the nature of God. As a result (among other things, I'm sure), there is a mysterious rift with five Cylons ([[Final five]]), and increasing [[Number Three\|discord between machines]] that are no longer just machines, but individuals. As you saw in "[[Downloaded]]" and in "[[Rapture]]", the Cylons have only one answer to when a fellow Cylon does not meet the status quo of behavior, who behaves way outside what that model does characteristically: [[boxing\|box 'em.]] (Be sure to sign your comments!) --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 07:56, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Mercifull: /* Different religous viewpoints per model? */ unsigned comment

2007-02-22T09:34:27Z

Different religous viewpoints per model?: unsigned comment

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:34, 22 February 2007
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	Different religious view points are hitting you from every possible angle on this show.		Different religious view points are hitting you from every possible angle on this show.
	Now Has anyone taken to to the worship of RDM I wonder?		Now Has anyone taken to to the worship of RDM I wonder? {{unsigned\|Mevenstar}}

Mevenstar: /* Different religous viewpoints per model? */

2007-02-22T09:09:33Z

Different religous viewpoints per model?

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	==Different religous viewpoints per model?==		==Different religous viewpoints per model?==
	Ok we know the Cavil models are atheist. We know Sixes are particularly devout. Three's seem to question their faith. Leoben makes comments like we are all god (gnosticism?). I think Boomer implied Simon (or was it Doral) couldn't bear to speak God's name. I think none of the models actually agree on what their god is. Cavil's are cynical, Simon's are empirical, Sixes are zealots, Leoben's are into mysticism or some such, Three's seemed to be in spiritual turmoil. --[[User:Meteor\|Meteor]] 25 January 2007.		Ok we know the Cavil models are atheist. We know Sixes are particularly devout. Three's seem to question their faith. Leoben makes comments like we are all god (gnosticism?). I think Boomer implied Simon (or was it Doral) couldn't bear to speak God's name. I think none of the models actually agree on what their god is. Cavil's are cynical, Simon's are empirical, Sixes are zealots, Leoben's are into mysticism or some such, Three's seemed to be in spiritual turmoil. --[[User:Meteor\|Meteor]] 25 January 2007.

			Cavil, his atheism sounds more like a speech from Lucifer discrediting god. The idea that the "jealous god" and the "one whose name cannot be spoken" are one and the same, and perhaps the Cylon God is a fun line to pursue. Why would the human then have such reverence for the temple of Five and those five priests, if they were followers of a fallen go? If I'm not mistaken isn't the name "Yahweh" or "Jahovah" sort of not supposed to be spoken?

			I'm of the faith we have 10 cylon models that represent these archetypes of humanity, aka the gods or Lords of Kobol. Makes perfect sense for the colonies gods to be archetypes as well. You see that all the time in mythology. But in the series the two "top spots" of this a-typical archetype pantheon have human avatars Zeus/Adama and Laura/Hera. So the two leading cylon positions are based on judeo christian "super powers" that they would call God and Satan. And if that is the case...then Cavil, as #2, is number two, to you know who.

			Different religious view points are hitting you from every possible angle on this show.
			Now Has anyone taken to to the worship of RDM I wonder?

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:09, 31 May 2007
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	:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
	::I've generally thought that the quotes were a hedge not to discuss the subject, too. I'll make a more detailed comparison and try to excise or swap about data between the articles to keep them on-topic and over-repetitive. Unless the quotes have any direct significance to how the Cylons view or worship him, I'll likely start striking some things for concision. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 14:12, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		::I've generally thought that the quotes were a hedge not to discuss the subject, too. I'll make a more detailed comparison and try to excise or swap about data between the articles to keep them on-topic and over-repetitive. Unless the quotes have any direct significance to how the Cylons view or worship him, I'll likely start striking some things for concision. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 14:12, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
			:::Update on [[God (RDM)]] done. I moved a section from there to here as it was more apropos for the comparisons between God and Colonial polythesism. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:09, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:12, 25 May 2007
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	...is surely a good thing (like [[memoryalpha:V'Ger\|V'Ger]] did), but in this case I'm asking about combining [[God (RDM)]] (recently disambig-ed) with this article. I think to avoid confusion we should use [[God (RDM)]] as the article, with this article name as a redirect. I don't see a lot of difference between them, although there is some analysis here that could be added or omitted altogether. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		...is surely a good thing (like [[memoryalpha:V'Ger\|V'Ger]] did), but in this case I'm asking about combining [[God (RDM)]] (recently disambig-ed) with this article. I think to avoid confusion we should use [[God (RDM)]] as the article, with this article name as a redirect. I don't see a lot of difference between them, although there is some analysis here that could be added or omitted altogether. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 13:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
	:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)		:It's a somewhat large article though. Combining them could make it a bit overloaded. However, we could also cut down on the listing of mentions of ´"God" as that doesn't really do much anyways. --[[User:Serenity\|Serenity]] 14:00, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
			::I've generally thought that the quotes were a hedge not to discuss the subject, too. I'll make a more detailed comparison and try to excise or swap about data between the articles to keep them on-topic and over-repetitive. Unless the quotes have any direct significance to how the Cylons view or worship him, I'll likely start striking some things for concision. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 14:12, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:47, 11 April 2020
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	This should probably be merged with content from [[God (RDM)]]. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 14:26, 30 December 2005 (EST)		This should probably be merged with content from [[God (RDM)]]. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 14:26, 30 December 2005 (EST)

	:I concur and will likely begin such at some point today if it's not done before I come back to it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:28, 30 December 2005 (EST)		:I concur and will likely begin such at some point today if it's not done before I come back to it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:28, 30 December 2005 (EST)
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	I know that "Cylons view the worship of multiple gods as blasphemeous against their God." is true. I believe it is specifically attested in [[33]], but I wanted to be sure before claiming such. Can anyone verify that or any other particular source? --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:27, 30 December 2005 (EST)		I know that "Cylons view the worship of multiple gods as blasphemeous against their God." is true. I believe it is specifically attested in [[33]], but I wanted to be sure before claiming such. Can anyone verify that or any other particular source? --[[User:CalculatinAvatar\|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:27, 30 December 2005 (EST)

	:[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/mov/bsg_del_112_regret.mov Deleted scene], Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 14:34, 30 December 2005 (EST)		:[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/mov/bsg_del_112_regret.mov Deleted scene], Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 14:34, 30 December 2005 (EST)

	:Also noted as "false gods" by Sharon Valerii in [[Home, Part I]]. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 14:39, 30 December 2005 (EST)		:Also noted as "false gods" by Sharon Valerii in [[Home, Part I]]. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 14:39, 30 December 2005 (EST)
	::Part II, FWIW. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 19:05, 31 December 2005 (EST)		::Part II, FWIW. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 19:05, 31 December 2005 (EST)

	==Quote Collecting==		==Quote Collecting==
	At present, I think the best thing to do here to ensure an accurate and well-cited entry is to scan episode transcripts for relevant comments and group them by topic and source, similar to the way we did [[Sacred Scrolls]]. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 16:47, 30 December 2005 (EST)		At present, I think the best thing to do here to ensure an accurate and well-cited entry is to scan episode transcripts for relevant comments and group them by topic and source, similar to the way we did [[Sacred Scrolls]]. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 16:47, 30 December 2005 (EST)

	===Natasi===		===Natasi===
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	*If the Cylons have access to more historical documents than the Colonials, they must have received them from a third party. Who?		*If the Cylons have access to more historical documents than the Colonials, they must have received them from a third party. Who?

	--[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 20:03, 1 January 2006 (EST)		--[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 20:03, 1 January 2006 (EST)

	: Perhaps they wrote their own? --[[User:Redwall\|Redwall]] 22:00, 1 January 2006 (EST)		: Perhaps they wrote their own? --[[User:Redwall\|Redwall]] 22:00, 1 January 2006 (EST)
	::I do not believe that at any time during "Home, Part II" we ever heard the Cylons say that they "have access to a broader set of documents and scripture than the Colonials". --[[User:Ricimer\|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 January 2006 (EST)		::I do not believe that at any time during "Home, Part II" we ever heard the Cylons say that they "have access to a broader set of documents and scripture than the Colonials". --[[User:Ricimer\|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 January 2006 (EST)
	:::Boomer: "I'm putting together a lot of pieces from a lot of sources beyond your scriptures." --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 01:29, 2 January 2006 (EST)		:::Boomer: "I'm putting together a lot of pieces from a lot of sources beyond your scriptures." --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 01:29, 2 January 2006 (EST)
	::::It's also possible that she was simply referring to historical evidence available to the Colonials but ignored by the more religious of them (a situation similar to many fundamentalists of today). --[[User:Redwall\|Redwall]] 10:53, 2 January 2006 (EST)		::::It's also possible that she was simply referring to historical evidence available to the Colonials but ignored by the more religious of them (a situation similar to many fundamentalists of today). --[[User:Redwall\|Redwall]] 10:53, 2 January 2006 (EST)
	:::::Fair point. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 12:46, 2 January 2006 (EST)		:::::Fair point. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 12:46, 2 January 2006 (EST)
	::Further, they do not "have a somewhat opaque ontology"; just because someone didn't understand what he was saying doesn't make it "opaque"; what Leoben was saying were in fact Gnostic and/or vaguely Buddhist ideas, etc. And remember, the Cylons believe that "God is love". --[[User:Ricimer\|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 January 2006 (EST)		::Further, they do not "have a somewhat opaque ontology"; just because someone didn't understand what he was saying doesn't make it "opaque"; what Leoben was saying were in fact Gnostic and/or vaguely Buddhist ideas, etc. And remember, the Cylons believe that "God is love". --[[User:Ricimer\|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 January 2006 (EST)
	:::If you can explain Leoben's stream-imagery to me in terms of Gnostic and/or Buddhist ideas, I would be delighted. I find them impenetrable. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 01:31, 2 January 2006 (EST)		:::If you can explain Leoben's stream-imagery to me in terms of Gnostic and/or Buddhist ideas, I would be delighted. I find them impenetrable. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 01:31, 2 January 2006 (EST)

	== Why couldn't they just mass-produce? ==		== Why couldn't they just mass-produce? ==
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	The Merovingian removed this passage: "One observer can easily compare the religious conflict between the Colonials and the Cylons to the rise and spread of Christianity and Judaism in Europe during the final days of the [[Wikipedia: Roman Empire \| Roman Empire]] and the dethronement of the religious beliefs the Greeks and the Romans believed in." because he felt it was a bit too POV. I don't agree, though it could certainly use cleaning-up grammatically speaking. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:13, 10 April 2006 (EST)		The Merovingian removed this passage: "One observer can easily compare the religious conflict between the Colonials and the Cylons to the rise and spread of Christianity and Judaism in Europe during the final days of the [[Wikipedia: Roman Empire \| Roman Empire]] and the dethronement of the religious beliefs the Greeks and the Romans believed in." because he felt it was a bit too POV. I don't agree, though it could certainly use cleaning-up grammatically speaking. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness\|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:13, 10 April 2006 (EST)

	:In my opinion, it's not that it's POV; it's just a very poor analogy. --[[User:~~Peter Farago~~\|~~Peter Farago~~]] 19:36, 10 April 2006 (CDT)		:In my opinion, it's not that it's POV; it's just a very poor analogy. --[[User:April Arcus\|April Arcus]] 19:36, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

	::I think it should be removed, because it is a POV poor analogy. --[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian\|E]])</sup> 21:14, 10 April 2006 (CDT)		::I think it should be removed, because it is a POV poor analogy. --[[User:The Merovingian\|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian\|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian\|E]])</sup> 21:14, 10 April 2006 (CDT)