Talk:Baltar as Cylon speculation/Archive 1 - Revision history

Spencerian: /* Let's keep it (but lock it) */ new section

2009-01-20T03:29:00Z

Let's keep it (but lock it): new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:29, 20 January 2009
Line 64:		Line 64:

	: Welcome aboard! Glad to have you! In response to the points that you've raised, you are indeed correct that the Significant Seven were unaware of the Final Five as a whole. (Or at least, most of them.) However, as for editing the page... I wouldn't waste too much time on it, as it'll likely get revised after the series airs. (And, no, Baltar isn't the final Cylon, as RDM made perfectly clear when discussing "[[The Last Supper]]" photo.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)		: Welcome aboard! Glad to have you! In response to the points that you've raised, you are indeed correct that the Significant Seven were unaware of the Final Five as a whole. (Or at least, most of them.) However, as for editing the page... I wouldn't waste too much time on it, as it'll likely get revised after the series airs. (And, no, Baltar isn't the final Cylon, as RDM made perfectly clear when discussing "[[The Last Supper]]" photo.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

			== Let's keep it (but lock it) ==

			Like its older original page on Cylons, let's keep it around (but locked) with a note on how crazy we all were in speculating. I led the initial charge that Baltar was probably one...so the crow is on me (lightly glazed with a hint of ginger). Thoughts? It'll be a fun bit of stuff. --[[User:Spencerian\|Spencerian]] 03:28, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* Events from the episode Downloaded */ reply

2008-11-10T18:03:54Z

Events from the episode Downloaded: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:03, 10 November 2008
Line 61:		Line 61:


	Since I'm new here, I didn't want to just jump in and start making lots of edits without review.		Since I'm new here, I didn't want to just jump in and start making lots of edits without review. {{unsigned\|TheOmnius}}

			: Welcome aboard! Glad to have you! In response to the points that you've raised, you are indeed correct that the Significant Seven were unaware of the Final Five as a whole. (Or at least, most of them.) However, as for editing the page... I wouldn't waste too much time on it, as it'll likely get revised after the series airs. (And, no, Baltar isn't the final Cylon, as RDM made perfectly clear when discussing "[[The Last Supper]]" photo.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

TheOmnius: /* Events from the episode Downloaded */ new section

2008-11-10T17:50:44Z

Events from the episode Downloaded: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:50, 10 November 2008
Line 45:		Line 45:

	: Well, Baltar isn't a Cylon, so... I'd like to nuke this page, since it's all speculation that's false. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)		: Well, Baltar isn't a Cylon, so... I'd like to nuke this page, since it's all speculation that's false. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

			== Events from the episode Downloaded ==

			At current, the section reads:
			The episode "Downloaded" contains revelations that reduce the possibility that Baltar is a Cylon. In dialogue with each other, numerous Cylon characters distinctly refer to Baltar as human. Although it is possible that they might keep the information from Baltar, the nature of the Cylon thought collective would seem to make no sense to keep it a secret to each other. In addition, this episode introduces the concept of a Number Six copy with a virtual Baltar in her head. Through Six, Baltar pushes for the Cylons to be more human; for example, letting Samuel Anders go free despite his destruction of a building and many other Humanoid Cylons. If Baltar were a Cylon, the events in the episode would make little sense.

			However -

			The Cylons referring to Baltar as human is irrelevant - they were unaware of the identities of the Final Five as a whole, and it was not until Three had her repeated "divine" visions during resurrection that she was able to discover the identity of the Five.

			The Virtual Baltar is likely unconnected to Baltar himself, as the Virtual Six is not "truly" the model Six that Baltar fell in love with.

			Further, letting Samuel Anders go isn't a good indication of anything due to his being one of the Final Five. One of the Raiders was able to recognize this on some level, leading to the Raider not firing on Anders despite having a clean shot. The Virtual Baltar could simply be voicing the same thing that allowed the Raider to recognize Anders, though in an indirect way that doesn't acknowledge his Cylon nature.



			Since I'm new here, I didn't want to just jump in and start making lots of edits without review.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* Entertainment Weekly */ Reply

2008-11-01T22:56:04Z

Entertainment Weekly: Reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:56, 1 November 2008
Line 43:		Line 43:
	==Entertainment Weekly==		==Entertainment Weekly==
	According to Entertainment Weekly, in an interview with RDM, it was discovered that no one in this picture is a Cylon. [http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html] Do we have any other sources like that for this?		According to Entertainment Weekly, in an interview with RDM, it was discovered that no one in this picture is a Cylon. [http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html] Do we have any other sources like that for this?

			: Well, Baltar isn't a Cylon, so... I'd like to nuke this page, since it's all speculation that's false. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [[bsp:\|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Aidan Windraker at 22:57, 31 October 2008

2008-10-31T22:57:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:57, 31 October 2008
Line 40:		Line 40:

	As of the Hub, Baltar has admitted his guilt to Roslin ;) Just one possibly and probably too obvious interpretation.		As of the Hub, Baltar has admitted his guilt to Roslin ;) Just one possibly and probably too obvious interpretation.

			==Entertainment Weekly==
			According to Entertainment Weekly, in an interview with RDM, it was discovered that no one in this picture is a Cylon. [http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html] Do we have any other sources like that for this?

Thomas shaw: /* Thoughts post */ new section

2008-06-08T07:51:04Z

Thoughts post: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:51, 8 June 2008
Line 28:		Line 28:
	:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes\|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes\|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
	::Both of your comments could be answered with the word amalagamate. And there's always the possibility of the one exception for a creator (Baltar).--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 20:23, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		::Both of your comments could be answered with the word amalagamate. And there's always the possibility of the one exception for a creator (Baltar).--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 20:23, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

			== Thoughts post ==

			Some thoughts for the powers that be.

			In the Baltar/Christ section, we might need to ad in the parallels of Baltar's wounds in "The Hub" and the abdominal wound delivered to Christ by Saint Longinus. Also, while he's bleeding out he strikes a crucificix pose with arms outstretched.

			And from Razor:

			"And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering."

			As of the Hub, Baltar has admitted his guilt to Roslin ;) Just one possibly and probably too obvious interpretation.

Andrewh1112: /* The Original Programmer */ Amalgamate

2007-08-22T01:23:36Z

The Original Programmer: Amalgamate

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:23, 22 August 2007
Line 27:		Line 27:
	:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
	:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes\|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes\|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
			::Both of your comments could be answered with the word amalagamate. And there's always the possibility of the one exception for a creator (Baltar).--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 20:23, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: /* The Original Programmer */ reply

2007-08-21T12:51:35Z

The Original Programmer: reply

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:51, 21 August 2007
Line 26:		Line 26:
	Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
	:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
			:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes\|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

Mercifull: /* The Original Programmer */

2007-08-21T08:46:12Z

The Original Programmer

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:46, 21 August 2007
Line 25:		Line 25:

	Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
			:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

Mercifull: /* The Original Programmer */ removed unneccesary html tags

2007-08-21T08:44:46Z

The Original Programmer: removed unneccesary html tags

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:44, 21 August 2007
Line 18:		Line 18:
	== The Original Programmer ==		== The Original Programmer ==

	~~<p>~~What if Baltar is a Cylon now but at one point existed in human form? I imagine he could have been the original programmer that created the humanoid Cylons. His extraordinary intelligence and personality certainly do not speak against it. Genius and insanity are degrees apart.~~</p>~~		What if Baltar is a Cylon now but at one point existed in human form? I imagine he could have been the original programmer that created the humanoid Cylons. His extraordinary intelligence and personality certainly do not speak against it. Genius and insanity are degrees apart.
	~~<p>~~The personalities of the twelve humanoid Cylons have to come from somewhere. Perhaps they were copies or amalgamates of humans? Or perhaps Baltar simply infused the first with a copy of his own personality?~~</p>~~
	~~<p>~~If your creator died, would you not want to revive him? Especially considering their religious inclination. If he did create them and died to "liberate" them from the humans, sacrificing all, he would be something of a religious icon comparable to Jesus Christ. And the Cylons would indeed be his children - and he their father.~~</p><p>~~		The personalities of the twelve humanoid Cylons have to come from somewhere. Perhaps they were copies or amalgamates of humans? Or perhaps Baltar simply infused the first with a copy of his own personality?
	Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?~~</p>~~--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
			If your creator died, would you not want to revive him? Especially considering their religious inclination. If he did create them and died to "liberate" them from the humans, sacrificing all, he would be something of a religious icon comparable to Jesus Christ. And the Cylons would indeed be his children - and he their father.

			Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:23, 22 August 2007
Line 27:		Line 27:
	:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
	:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes\|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes\|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
			::Both of your comments could be answered with the word amalagamate. And there's always the possibility of the one exception for a creator (Baltar).--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 20:23, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:51, 21 August 2007
Line 26:		Line 26:
	Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?--[[User:Andrewh1112\|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
	:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)		:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull\|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull\|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull\|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
			:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes\|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.\|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support\|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)