Baltar as Cylon speculation - Revision history

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Karl Agathon" to "{{callsign|Karl Agathon}}"

2025-02-08T17:13:05Z

Text replacement - "Karl Agathon" to "{{callsign|Karl Agathon}}"

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:13, 8 February 2025
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	Six states her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point {{TRS\|The Farm}}. If Baltar and Six were both Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar. However, this is likely a metaphor regarding Hera's half-Cylon/half-human nature. In this regard, Baltar represents humanity, being the 'father', and Six represents the Cylons, being the 'mother'. Thus when Six tells Baltar that Hera is 'our' child, she is speaking as a Cylon to a human.		Six states her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point {{TRS\|The Farm}}. If Baltar and Six were both Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar. However, this is likely a metaphor regarding Hera's half-Cylon/half-human nature. In this regard, Baltar represents humanity, being the 'father', and Six represents the Cylons, being the 'mother'. Thus when Six tells Baltar that Hera is 'our' child, she is speaking as a Cylon to a human.

	In "[[Home, Part II]]," the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii\|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turns out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon]], occupies the cage, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]," Six asks Baltar if he wants to procreate with her, and at this point she may mean an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurs much later, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six mentions in "Home, Part II" that she doesn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon becomes pregnant first.		In "[[Home, Part II]]," the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii\|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turns out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by {{callsign\|Karl Agathon}}, occupies the cage, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]," Six asks Baltar if he wants to procreate with her, and at this point she may mean an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurs much later, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six mentions in "Home, Part II" that she doesn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon becomes pregnant first.

	With the actual consciousness of the Cylon known as [[Caprica-Six]] returned (now with a [[Virtual Baltar\|virtual Gaius Baltar]] that haunts her), the credibility of the virtual Six, and her connection to some elaborate Cylon plan for procreation with Baltar, is specious at best.		With the actual consciousness of the Cylon known as [[Caprica-Six]] returned (now with a [[Virtual Baltar\|virtual Gaius Baltar]] that haunts her), the credibility of the virtual Six, and her connection to some elaborate Cylon plan for procreation with Baltar, is specious at best.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Lee Adama" to "{{callsign|Lee Adama}}"

2025-02-08T16:16:00Z

Text replacement - "Lee Adama" to "{{callsign|Lee Adama}}"

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:16, 8 February 2025
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	As noted, the theme of divine incarnation for redemption is a very common one in fiction. Ron Moore has a known penchant for redemption drama, and Baltar as a Christ-figure, redeeming himself and then both humanity and the Cylons potentially, fits with this.		As noted, the theme of divine incarnation for redemption is a very common one in fiction. Ron Moore has a known penchant for redemption drama, and Baltar as a Christ-figure, redeeming himself and then both humanity and the Cylons potentially, fits with this.

	The [[First Hybrid]] who says his children believe he is a god, makes a prediction about the final Cylon: "...the fifth is still is in shadow, drawn toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." {{TRS\|Razor}} This statement, while not concrete, may relate to Baltar. Of the major living characters, he most has begged for redemption, and is most in need of it, and it will indeed be painful for him. While [[Lee Adama]] seeks redemption for the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' this has been at best a minor theme in his character. Only Baltar begs for it, and only Baltar has said he would find redemption in learning he was a Cylon.		The [[First Hybrid]] who says his children believe he is a god, makes a prediction about the final Cylon: "...the fifth is still is in shadow, drawn toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." {{TRS\|Razor}} This statement, while not concrete, may relate to Baltar. Of the major living characters, he most has begged for redemption, and is most in need of it, and it will indeed be painful for him. While {{callsign\|Lee Adama}} seeks redemption for the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' this has been at best a minor theme in his character. Only Baltar begs for it, and only Baltar has said he would find redemption in learning he was a Cylon.

	== References ==		== References ==

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - ""," to ",""

2024-02-20T22:17:12Z

Text replacement - ""," to ",""

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:17, 20 February 2024
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	One notable question would be ''why'' Six spends so much time talking to Baltar and then throws herself in front of the blast if she intends for him to die? If Baltar is already a Cylon, his consciousness from that moment would be thrown into a waking duplicate, already disheveled and scraped, where Baltar would merely think he was blown clear to safety where he could run to escape attacks with other survivors. Also, since Baltar appears to be a key in many Cylon plans, they would want to ensure that Baltar would reach any remaining humans to spy for them, and having only one copy might risk the success of such plans. Further, it is the ''psyche'' of Baltar that the Cylons may treasure most; few others in the Colonies may have the level of intelligence, arrogance, and neurosis that Baltar has that could prove as easily exploitable. The guise of the great Baltar gives the Cylons a huge natural tactical advantage in that he is well known and allowed access to almost any critical battlestar location. Baltar's slick personality aids him with better finesse and stronger charisma than any humanoid Cylon personality yet seen.		One notable question would be ''why'' Six spends so much time talking to Baltar and then throws herself in front of the blast if she intends for him to die? If Baltar is already a Cylon, his consciousness from that moment would be thrown into a waking duplicate, already disheveled and scraped, where Baltar would merely think he was blown clear to safety where he could run to escape attacks with other survivors. Also, since Baltar appears to be a key in many Cylon plans, they would want to ensure that Baltar would reach any remaining humans to spy for them, and having only one copy might risk the success of such plans. Further, it is the ''psyche'' of Baltar that the Cylons may treasure most; few others in the Colonies may have the level of intelligence, arrogance, and neurosis that Baltar has that could prove as easily exploitable. The guise of the great Baltar gives the Cylons a huge natural tactical advantage in that he is well known and allowed access to almost any critical battlestar location. Baltar's slick personality aids him with better finesse and stronger charisma than any humanoid Cylon personality yet seen.

	Later events in the series appear to discount this notion of an elaborate plan to save Baltar. In "[[Downloaded]]", the Cylons are unaware that Baltar has survived, having received this information from the resurrected [[Sharon Valerii]].		Later events in the series appear to discount this notion of an elaborate plan to save Baltar. In "[[Downloaded]]," the Cylons are unaware that Baltar has survived, having received this information from the resurrected [[Sharon Valerii]].

	==The Baltar-as-Father Argument==		==The Baltar-as-Father Argument==
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	Six states her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point {{TRS\|The Farm}}. If Baltar and Six were both Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar. However, this is likely a metaphor regarding Hera's half-Cylon/half-human nature. In this regard, Baltar represents humanity, being the 'father', and Six represents the Cylons, being the 'mother'. Thus when Six tells Baltar that Hera is 'our' child, she is speaking as a Cylon to a human.		Six states her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point {{TRS\|The Farm}}. If Baltar and Six were both Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar. However, this is likely a metaphor regarding Hera's half-Cylon/half-human nature. In this regard, Baltar represents humanity, being the 'father', and Six represents the Cylons, being the 'mother'. Thus when Six tells Baltar that Hera is 'our' child, she is speaking as a Cylon to a human.

	In "[[Home, Part II]]", the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii\|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turns out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon]], occupies the cage, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]", Six asks Baltar if he wants to procreate with her, and at this point she may mean an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurs much later, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six mentions in "Home, Part II" that she doesn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon becomes pregnant first.		In "[[Home, Part II]]," the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii\|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turns out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon]], occupies the cage, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]," Six asks Baltar if he wants to procreate with her, and at this point she may mean an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurs much later, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six mentions in "Home, Part II" that she doesn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon becomes pregnant first.

	With the actual consciousness of the Cylon known as [[Caprica-Six]] returned (now with a [[Virtual Baltar\|virtual Gaius Baltar]] that haunts her), the credibility of the virtual Six, and her connection to some elaborate Cylon plan for procreation with Baltar, is specious at best.		With the actual consciousness of the Cylon known as [[Caprica-Six]] returned (now with a [[Virtual Baltar\|virtual Gaius Baltar]] that haunts her), the credibility of the virtual Six, and her connection to some elaborate Cylon plan for procreation with Baltar, is specious at best.
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	Baltar's actions when forced by his virtual Six to repent and worship the Cylon version of [[God (RDM)\|God]] leaves several significant questions as to the nature of both the virtual Six and Baltar's nature.		Baltar's actions when forced by his virtual Six to repent and worship the Cylon version of [[God (RDM)\|God]] leaves several significant questions as to the nature of both the virtual Six and Baltar's nature.

	In the episode, "[[The Hand of God (RDM)\|The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium (RDM)\|tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repents to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knows'' (or summons) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.		In the episode, "[[The Hand of God (RDM)\|The Hand of God]]," Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium (RDM)\|tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]," a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repents to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knows'' (or summons) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.

	"[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the [[Virtual beings\|virtual copies]] of [[Caprica-Six]] and Baltar that haunt their opposite interests seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica-Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded\|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.		"[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the [[Virtual beings\|virtual copies]] of [[Caprica-Six]] and Baltar that haunt their opposite interests seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica-Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded\|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "Caprica Six" to "Caprica-Six"

2024-02-20T22:08:16Z

Text replacement - "Caprica Six" to "Caprica-Six"

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:08, 20 February 2024
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	In the episode, "[[The Hand of God (RDM)\|The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium (RDM)\|tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repents to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knows'' (or summons) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.		In the episode, "[[The Hand of God (RDM)\|The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium (RDM)\|tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repents to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knows'' (or summons) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.

	"[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the [[Virtual beings\|virtual copies]] of [[Caprica Six]] and Baltar that haunt their opposite interests seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded\|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.		"[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the [[Virtual beings\|virtual copies]] of [[Caprica-Six]] and Baltar that haunt their opposite interests seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica-Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded\|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.

	===Baltar as Cylon Christ===		===Baltar as Cylon Christ===
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	On a more obvious, visual level, Baltar, on several occasion is seen to be in the pose of Christ on the cross, for example in the water, in his drug-induced vision in "[[Taking A Break From All Your Worries]]" or when he collapses in the grass on Kobol. Additionally, after his return from the Cylons, his hair and beard begin to resemble what most people would typically imagine Jesus's to have been like.		On a more obvious, visual level, Baltar, on several occasion is seen to be in the pose of Christ on the cross, for example in the water, in his drug-induced vision in "[[Taking A Break From All Your Worries]]" or when he collapses in the grass on Kobol. Additionally, after his return from the Cylons, his hair and beard begin to resemble what most people would typically imagine Jesus's to have been like.

	Baltar is smarter than not just other Colonials, but also apparently than the Cylons in some areas, discovering clues to Earth they can't figure out in spite of their computer memories and claimed superior knowledge of the Sacred Scrolls. Baltar's inner Six claims to be an angel sent from God to protect him. At the same time, Caprica Six's equivalent appears in the form of a Baltar. Baltar's inner Six's first mission is to arrange a religious conversion for Baltar.		Baltar is smarter than not just other Colonials, but also apparently than the Cylons in some areas, discovering clues to Earth they can't figure out in spite of their computer memories and claimed superior knowledge of the Sacred Scrolls. Baltar's inner Six claims to be an angel sent from God to protect him. At the same time, Caprica-Six's equivalent appears in the form of a Baltar. Baltar's inner Six's first mission is to arrange a religious conversion for Baltar.

	[[D'Anna Biers]] last words to Baltar afters he sees her vision of the Final Five are "So beautiful. You were right." Later, she explains to a [[Cavil]] that she was seeking "the one who programmed us."		[[D'Anna Biers]] last words to Baltar afters he sees her vision of the Final Five are "So beautiful. You were right." Later, she explains to a [[Cavil]] that she was seeking "the one who programmed us."

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "He That Believeth In Me" to "He That Believeth in Me"

2023-10-29T16:02:58Z

Text replacement - "He That Believeth In Me" to "He That Believeth in Me"

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:02, 29 October 2023
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	===Baltar as Cylon Christ===		===Baltar as Cylon Christ===

	The Cylon God is speculated to also have been a Lord of Kobol, "the one whose name cannot be spoken" or "the jealous god" who prompted the battle on Kobol. If so, he is/was a real being on Kobol of similar state to the other lords, and could have a physical incarnation, containing whatever portion of his mind could fit in a humanoid brain, among the Fleet. Baltar could be more than an agent of God, or a Cylon, he could be an (unaware) actual incarnation of the Cylon God in the "Christ" motif which is extremely common in literature. The Season 4 episode title "[[He That Believeth In Me]]" is a direct reference to Christ, and in fact Baltar becomes the messianic leader of his own [[Cult of Baltar\|cult]] during the episode.		The Cylon God is speculated to also have been a Lord of Kobol, "the one whose name cannot be spoken" or "the jealous god" who prompted the battle on Kobol. If so, he is/was a real being on Kobol of similar state to the other lords, and could have a physical incarnation, containing whatever portion of his mind could fit in a humanoid brain, among the Fleet. Baltar could be more than an agent of God, or a Cylon, he could be an (unaware) actual incarnation of the Cylon God in the "Christ" motif which is extremely common in literature. The Season 4 episode title "[[He That Believeth in Me]]" is a direct reference to Christ, and in fact Baltar becomes the messianic leader of his own [[Cult of Baltar\|cult]] during the episode.

	On a more obvious, visual level, Baltar, on several occasion is seen to be in the pose of Christ on the cross, for example in the water, in his drug-induced vision in "[[Taking A Break From All Your Worries]]" or when he collapses in the grass on Kobol. Additionally, after his return from the Cylons, his hair and beard begin to resemble what most people would typically imagine Jesus's to have been like.		On a more obvious, visual level, Baltar, on several occasion is seen to be in the pose of Christ on the cross, for example in the water, in his drug-induced vision in "[[Taking A Break From All Your Worries]]" or when he collapses in the grass on Kobol. Additionally, after his return from the Cylons, his hair and beard begin to resemble what most people would typically imagine Jesus's to have been like.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "tylium" to "tylium"

2022-08-22T01:03:01Z

Text replacement - "tylium" to "tylium"

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:03, 22 August 2022
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	Baltar's actions when forced by his virtual Six to repent and worship the Cylon version of [[God (RDM)\|God]] leaves several significant questions as to the nature of both the virtual Six and Baltar's nature.		Baltar's actions when forced by his virtual Six to repent and worship the Cylon version of [[God (RDM)\|God]] leaves several significant questions as to the nature of both the virtual Six and Baltar's nature.

	In the episode, "[[The Hand of God (RDM)\|The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repents to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knows'' (or summons) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.		In the episode, "[[The Hand of God (RDM)\|The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium (RDM)\|tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repents to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knows'' (or summons) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.

	"[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the [[Virtual beings\|virtual copies]] of [[Caprica Six]] and Baltar that haunt their opposite interests seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded\|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.		"[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the [[Virtual beings\|virtual copies]] of [[Caprica Six]] and Baltar that haunt their opposite interests seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded\|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "(Razor)" to "{{TRS|Razor}}"

2020-09-07T17:48:13Z

Text replacement - "(Razor)" to "{{TRS|Razor}}"

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	As noted, the theme of divine incarnation for redemption is a very common one in fiction. Ron Moore has a known penchant for redemption drama, and Baltar as a Christ-figure, redeeming himself and then both humanity and the Cylons potentially, fits with this.		As noted, the theme of divine incarnation for redemption is a very common one in fiction. Ron Moore has a known penchant for redemption drama, and Baltar as a Christ-figure, redeeming himself and then both humanity and the Cylons potentially, fits with this.

	The [[First Hybrid]] who says his children believe he is a god, makes a prediction about the final Cylon: "...the fifth is still is in shadow, drawn toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." ~~([[~~Razor~~]])~~ This statement, while not concrete, may relate to Baltar. Of the major living characters, he most has begged for redemption, and is most in need of it, and it will indeed be painful for him. While [[Lee Adama]] seeks redemption for the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' this has been at best a minor theme in his character. Only Baltar begs for it, and only Baltar has said he would find redemption in learning he was a Cylon.		The [[First Hybrid]] who says his children believe he is a god, makes a prediction about the final Cylon: "...the fifth is still is in shadow, drawn toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." {{TRS\|Razor}} This statement, while not concrete, may relate to Baltar. Of the major living characters, he most has begged for redemption, and is most in need of it, and it will indeed be painful for him. While [[Lee Adama]] seeks redemption for the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' this has been at best a minor theme in his character. Only Baltar begs for it, and only Baltar has said he would find redemption in learning he was a Cylon.

	== References ==		== References ==

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "(Rapture)" to "{{TRS|Rapture}}"

2020-09-07T05:54:46Z

Text replacement - "(Rapture)" to "{{TRS|Rapture}}"

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	When Baltar questions why he has seen only seven humanoid models, despite the point that twelve humanoid Cylons exist, Caprica-Six is unwilling to answer. Apparently the Cylons have blocked or lost all knowledge of the these so-called [[Final Five]] Cylons. With four of these known to the audience, this leaves the possibility that Baltar is the final unknown Cylon.		When Baltar questions why he has seen only seven humanoid models, despite the point that twelve humanoid Cylons exist, Caprica-Six is unwilling to answer. Apparently the Cylons have blocked or lost all knowledge of the these so-called [[Final Five]] Cylons. With four of these known to the audience, this leaves the possibility that Baltar is the final unknown Cylon.

	An additional mystery is the fact that after activating some unknown device in the Temple of Five and getting a glimpse of the Final Five, a Three seems to recognize one of the Final Five and repent her actions. One possibility is her earlier behavior towards Baltar, such as torturing him ~~([[~~Rapture~~]])~~.		An additional mystery is the fact that after activating some unknown device in the Temple of Five and getting a glimpse of the Final Five, a Three seems to recognize one of the Final Five and repent her actions. One possibility is her earlier behavior towards Baltar, such as torturing him {{TRS\|Rapture}}.

	==Baltar as an "Agent of God"==		==Baltar as an "Agent of God"==

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "(The Farm)" to "{{TRS|The Farm}}"

2020-09-07T04:52:52Z

Text replacement - "(The Farm)" to "{{TRS|The Farm}}"

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	==The Baltar-as-Father Argument==		==The Baltar-as-Father Argument==

	Six states her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point ~~([[~~The Farm~~]])~~. If Baltar and Six were both Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar. However, this is likely a metaphor regarding Hera's half-Cylon/half-human nature. In this regard, Baltar represents humanity, being the 'father', and Six represents the Cylons, being the 'mother'. Thus when Six tells Baltar that Hera is 'our' child, she is speaking as a Cylon to a human.		Six states her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point {{TRS\|The Farm}}. If Baltar and Six were both Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar. However, this is likely a metaphor regarding Hera's half-Cylon/half-human nature. In this regard, Baltar represents humanity, being the 'father', and Six represents the Cylons, being the 'mother'. Thus when Six tells Baltar that Hera is 'our' child, she is speaking as a Cylon to a human.

	In "[[Home, Part II]]", the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii\|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turns out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon]], occupies the cage, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]", Six asks Baltar if he wants to procreate with her, and at this point she may mean an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurs much later, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six mentions in "Home, Part II" that she doesn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon becomes pregnant first.		In "[[Home, Part II]]", the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii\|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turns out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon]], occupies the cage, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]", Six asks Baltar if he wants to procreate with her, and at this point she may mean an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurs much later, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six mentions in "Home, Part II" that she doesn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon becomes pregnant first.

Joe Beaudoin Jr.: Text replacement - "
" to "{{reflist}}"

2020-04-18T18:34:51Z

Text replacement - "<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>" to "{{reflist}}"

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	== References ==		== References ==
	~~<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>~~		{{reflist}}

	[[Category:A to Z]]		[[Category:A to Z]]

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	Six states her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point {{TRS\|The Farm}}. If Baltar and Six were both Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar. However, this is likely a metaphor regarding Hera's half-Cylon/half-human nature. In this regard, Baltar represents humanity, being the 'father', and Six represents the Cylons, being the 'mother'. Thus when Six tells Baltar that Hera is 'our' child, she is speaking as a Cylon to a human.		Six states her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point {{TRS\|The Farm}}. If Baltar and Six were both Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar. However, this is likely a metaphor regarding Hera's half-Cylon/half-human nature. In this regard, Baltar represents humanity, being the 'father', and Six represents the Cylons, being the 'mother'. Thus when Six tells Baltar that Hera is 'our' child, she is speaking as a Cylon to a human.

	In "[[Home, Part II]]," the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii\|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turns out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon]], occupies the cage, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]," Six asks Baltar if he wants to procreate with her, and at this point she may mean an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurs much later, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six mentions in "Home, Part II" that she doesn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon becomes pregnant first.		In "[[Home, Part II]]," the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii\|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turns out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by {{callsign\|Karl Agathon}}, occupies the cage, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]," Six asks Baltar if he wants to procreate with her, and at this point she may mean an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurs much later, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six mentions in "Home, Part II" that she doesn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon becomes pregnant first.

	With the actual consciousness of the Cylon known as [[Caprica-Six]] returned (now with a [[Virtual Baltar\|virtual Gaius Baltar]] that haunts her), the credibility of the virtual Six, and her connection to some elaborate Cylon plan for procreation with Baltar, is specious at best.		With the actual consciousness of the Cylon known as [[Caprica-Six]] returned (now with a [[Virtual Baltar\|virtual Gaius Baltar]] that haunts her), the credibility of the virtual Six, and her connection to some elaborate Cylon plan for procreation with Baltar, is specious at best.

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	Baltar's actions when forced by his virtual Six to repent and worship the Cylon version of [[God (RDM)\|God]] leaves several significant questions as to the nature of both the virtual Six and Baltar's nature.		Baltar's actions when forced by his virtual Six to repent and worship the Cylon version of [[God (RDM)\|God]] leaves several significant questions as to the nature of both the virtual Six and Baltar's nature.

	In the episode, "[[The Hand of God (RDM)\|The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repents to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knows'' (or summons) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.		In the episode, "[[The Hand of God (RDM)\|The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium (RDM)\|tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repents to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knows'' (or summons) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.

	"[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the [[Virtual beings\|virtual copies]] of [[Caprica Six]] and Baltar that haunt their opposite interests seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded\|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.		"[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the [[Virtual beings\|virtual copies]] of [[Caprica Six]] and Baltar that haunt their opposite interests seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded\|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.