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Talk:Kara Thrace

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As far as you actually see in the episode 'The Farm' there is only one new abdominal scar on Starbuck. This would suggest that only one of her ovaries has been removed, not two. The podcast may have more precise information, however.

The phrase "CAG Second in Command" is a kind of awkward consturction. Can anybody think of a better way to describe her role? Rocky8311 21:41, October 16, 2005 (EDT)
I don't believe that she actually has a title. She's an instructor and Viper pilot... and a crack shot with a sniper rifle. (How she got that talent is likely a subject of interest...) -- Joe Beaudoin 23:18, 16 October 2005 (EDT)
I agree on all counts. The thing is that we know she's understood to be in charge whenever Apollo is indisposed, but CAG Second in Command just doesn't sound quite right. I just don't know what would sound better Rocky8311 23:27, October 16, 2005 (EDT)
Senior pilot after Capt. Lee Adama? --Peter Farago 23:35, 16 October 2005 (EDT)
Vice-CAG? Philwelch 15:45, 8 December 2005 (EST)
Military wise, she would be the Air Group Executive Officer were she second in command of the pilots. Joemc72 17:34, 18 January 2006 (EST)

Contents

Verb Tense for Zak Stuff

I reviewed the standards and conventions page, and it seems like the Zak Adama stuff really deserved the past tense since it occured "prior to the Mini-Series". The example in the second paragraph references Zak's funeral, which seems to be a pretty fitting example to apply here. So does all the pre-mini-series go to past tense, or are we going to 100% present tense (in which case we'd probably need to change the standards and conventions page). --Steelviper 17:28, 18 January 2006 (EST)

We can change the standards if we want (I mean--wewrote tham, after all), but I think it makes sense... As I was editing that, I was already getting confused about tenses and such, and I only really touched the one paragraph. Joemc72 and I already sorted it out on my Talk page. --Day 17:31, 18 January 2006 (EST)
I went ahead and reverted it back. Joemc72 17:32, 18 January 2006 (EST)
SV is correct. Events from the miniseries on are present tense unless confusing. Flashbacks of events prior to miniseries and regular series should be worked as past tense. --Spencerian 09:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)

Paging Dr. Freud

In the miniseries, Thrace doesn't tell Adama she doesn't have a big enough dipstick for his job, but that she's not a big enough dipstick. It's one line, but this is an unintentionally funny rendering of the quote... if you consider all the folks who were against Starbuck being a girl... Below 16:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)

Thrace has authority issues when crossed, yes. Not as cavalier about it as the original Starbuck, but then, this is a darker world. When compelled to, however, Thrace can obviously manage the work, even excel. She's still second CAG, now that Adama has returned to that status, and can effectively lead an attack as CAGs do, title or no. Thrace does have the "dipstick"; but she HATES having to deal with mentalities like Tigh. But she hates being out of the pilot's seat more, which gives her a greater sense of control than anything. I'd have Thrace plan any attack, anytime. And, in keeping with the dipstick metaphor, you can always expect her to be on top in almost anything she does. --Spencerian 09:08, 3 February 2006 (EST)

Grin. I was thinking that an additional dimension to her authority issues was seen in the last few episodes. I think it would be interesting to integrate into this article if possible, but tonight's episode might have some more to say first. We know she had an abusive mother who served in the military, and identifies with her father. The Admiral is a positive father figure to her, but she's disgusted by Tigh, especially his drinking. (Was alcohol her mother's personal tinderbox?) Enter Cain. On the one hand, Cain identifies with Thrace and gives her positive reinforcement: eg Do you always get what you want, I usually do. In my viewing, Sackhoff plays it as being both nervous and touched by Cain's approval. (Her mother had said she'd never account to anything: here's a much higher ranking woman claiming that she's capable of greatness.) Pretty clear that Cain wants to mentor Thrace, and sees a "younger self" in the pilot. At the same time, it's not a stretch to parallel the violent, volatile Cain with Thrace's absent, abusive mother. (Michelle Forbes would be a really interesting Medea.) So Kara is being asked to choose between father figure Adama and mother figure Cain, and shooting Cain may feel like a kind of matricide. Usually when TV shows or movies set up a young character against "two parents," one good, one bad, it's a young man torn between two fathers or father figures (witness "A Bronx Tale," "Platoon," "Star Wars", many others), so it's interesting to see that dynamic with a young woman. One more reason I love watching this show. Below 11:18, 3 February 2006 (EST)

Oh yes; for the past few weeks I've been repeatedly asking on the official site's RDM blog thread if they intentionally wrote it that Starbuck was won over by Cain because it was like her mother giving her the recognition that she never got. Of course, I ask a lot of things there....(I was annoyed when in his recent blog update yesterday A) people sometimes ask questions he's already answered many months ago (like, "Where is Boxey" and "Why don't we see the engine room?"), so B) he didn't realize this (I don't blame him, he's got a lot of work to do) so he wasted a blog entry answering questions that were already answered....except one, btw; apparently, the Presidential election is coming up soon. Probably not by the season 2 finale, obviously, but I got the impression he's playing around with script stuff for it now, and who knows? It might be the season 3 cliffhanger...or at most the season 3 finale. This, of course, would prove that they have indeed jumped several months ahead (once again, how could 2 months pass during Flight of the Phoenix?...but I digress....). --Ricimer 11:46, 3 February 2006 (EST)
How, you ask? Easily. See, all that we saw on the show was actually in fast forward... See, for that month, Bill had decided that everyone was to do everything at one sixth of normal speed... Thus, all that took two months. I thought that was obvious. *wink* --Day 03:01, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Scar

What's with the "Kara is CAG in Scar" business? It looked like Apollo was still in charge to me. --Redwall 00:27, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Kara was responsible for briefings and I'm pretty sure I heard her referred to as CAG a few times in the episode. --Ltcrashdown 00:29, 4 February 2006 (EST)
Negative, Lieutenant. Kat said to Kara, "The CAG wants us spread out so we can cover more ground. It's right here in the briefings." I'm pretty sure that's accurate, anyway. Someone check me. Anyway, I thought it was clear she was talking about Lee. Now... Why was she doing all the briefings? I have no idea... I thought for a bit that maybe Lee was on Pegasus doing some kind of fleet-wide-CAG duties, but Peggie was off protecting the Fleet, so he'd probably not be jumping back and forth to almost have sex with Kara and all that. --Day 02:56, 4 February 2006 (EST)


Because Lee has seniority over Kara (both are Captains, but he's been one longer, etc) he is in charge of their whole widescale operation. I mean, the guy can't be awake 24 horus a day and be everywhere at once. He needs to delegate duties now and again like this. --Ricimer 02:59, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Serial Number

It's partially visible on the dogtag she gave Anders in "Downloaded": ?? 462753 - the two question marks would be letters, and I think the second one is a T, but Lucy Lawless's hand is covering the first. --Peter Farago 14:30, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I found that Galacticastation has a great screencape here of her ID tag. Can you guys tell what it is? It's not a T, it's....I can't tell if it says "ser" for "service number" (thus, not actually part of of the number), or "3er"...which seems odd as this is lowercase.--The Merovingian (C - E) 19:03, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

My first impression is that it is "ser" for serial or service number for the reason it is not together with the number. --FrankieG 19:36, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
Yeah, but Helo has a "PK" prefix to his serial number and Boomer had a "T" prefix. --The Merovingian (C - E) 20:07, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
Just a note, in "Collaborators" we see the full shot on her id tags during her conversation with Anders. It is prefixed by "ser" (sans quotes). If anyone can get a screencap to confirm, that'd be nice. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 12:32, 3 November 2006 (EST)
It says "ser 462753". Screencap here: [1] --Serenity 12:40, 3 November 2006 (EST)
Thought so. Thanks Serenity. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 12:45, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Major Pre-Season 3 Revision

As with the central characters William Adama, Laura Roslin, and Gaius Baltar, I've heavily concised this article, removing extraneous episode information, to prepare it for season 3 information. --Spencerian 11:37, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

I suggest marking this article for cleanup and revision. Kara's biography is still a bit too long and quite messy - it's actually one big unclear stream of facts. I think it should be divided into a few parts, significant and dividing episodes being "Kobol's Last Gleaming", "Home", "Lay Down Your Burdens" and "Collaborators". -- Spike 03:42, 3 November 2006 (EST)
I agree to the cleanup and revision of this article, particularly the content added since season 3, as it is inconsistently written. (I've tried to clean it up, but a rewrite is in order for tone issues.) -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 12:29, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Socrata Thrace?

I've removed this reference because the reference was far too vague; the reference pertains to Thrace's mother, "Socrata".

Socrata (revealed in TV Guide Magazine)

If anyone can be specific as to the reference, including but not limited to page number, issue number, publication date, et al, please feel free to add it back in. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 19:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Done and done. I refrained from the context, though, because what little there is I fear maybe spoilery. --Mars 07:34, 11 December 2006 (CST)

Kara Thrace DEAD?

Now I'm disappointed in Battlestar Galactica. Starbuck was killed off Sunday night or at least we are led to believe she is dead. I like to think there is more to this than what was shown.--Avazina 20:21, 6 March 2007 (CST)

She is definitely dead, but that means nothing in fiction. You're probably right. Don't feel too disappointed; the classical heroes of Greek mythology suffered and died often to fulfill their missions. We're very used to our western heroes always riding off into the sunset to fight another day. Some day the sun will no longer rise. There was a bit in the episode that suggests that Kara is visiting the space between life and death; we'll see. --Spencerian 20:47, 6 March 2007 (CST)
Don't worry, she's merely ascended to another plane of existence. She'll be back next season as an Ancient. I mean, Final Five. Wow, deja vu Atlantis. --David Templar 12:49, 7 March 2007 (CST)
There's two reasons I'm not accepting her as dead. First, there was heavy foreshadowing in Rapture and Maelstrom hinting that she may be a Cylon. Second, she did not die the way the hero with an important destiny is supposed to. If she died in Resurrection Ship, Scar or The Passage I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons and died trying to escape I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons, decided she had no hope of escape or rescue and killed herself in a final act of defiance against Leoben I'd accept it. I won't accept this until the final five are revealed. -- Gordon Ecker 17:19, 7 March 2007 (CST)
I stand by my idea that she'll be the first of the RDM series' Beings of Light. --BklynBruzer 11:27, 8 March 2007 (CST)
Didn't she say something like episodes 13 and 19 will be very important for her character? --Mercifull (Talk/Contribs) 12:53, 8 March 2007 (CST)
Eick said that 16 (Maelstrom) and 19 (Crossroads Pt. II) will have a lot of revelations on Lee and Kara's romance. --BklynBruzer 14:50, 8 March 2007 (CST)
I think that Starbuck will be back, but not Katee Sackhoff. --FrankieG 15:19, 8 March 2007 (CST)
Interesting idea... how do you think they'd implement it? (If it were to happen, that is.) --BklynBruzer 15:25, 8 March 2007 (CST)
I think the two most likely possibilities are that Lee or Anders finds a note or letter among Kara's belongings, or that Kara is revealed to be a Cylon. I don't think they'll recast her because it's a tacky and overused soap opera and pulp sci-fi cliche. -- Gordon Ecker 02:00, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
Kara cant be a cylon because she was a child and Cylons do not make copies of already or once living people. --Mercifull (Talk/Contribs) 06:54, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
Kara remembers being a child. Baltar remembers being a child too, that doesn't disqualify him, and Boomer also probably has false childhood memories. And Socrata could be another Cylon, or a hallucination, there's no proof that anyone other than Kara saw her. I'm not saying she's a Cylon, I'm just saying that the possibility hasn't been eliminated. -- Gordon Ecker 20:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
AFAIK, Socrata served in the 1st war. --BklynBruzer 21:52, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
Yes, Socrata served in the first war. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 22:22, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
According to Kara's own memories her mother was a veteran of the first war, I'm not aware of any third-party corroboration, and it's an established fact that Cylon sleeper agents have false memories. -- Gordon Ecker 00:38, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
Socrata received some kind of medal for service in the war. --BklynBruzer 05:59, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
And Boomer received elephant sculptures from her parents when she went to Fleet Academy. --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 06:50, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
There's a difference. There must be records in military archives of Socrata's medal (If any archives still exist, that is). Records that date back to the first war. The Cylons weren't infiltrating then. --BklynBruzer 08:51, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
Who saw or heard of Socrata and had both the motivation and the opportunity to check the military records? We know that Boomer managed to get past any background checks and identity verification the colonial military may have used. We also know that colonial computer security was extremely lax during the fall of the twelve colonies. -- Gordon Ecker 19:06, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

One possibility is that Thrace (in a past life as the Lord of Kobol, Aurora) helped build the Temple of Five, knew what the Earth hologram was in "Home, Part II" because she experienced it before, and that, while we may not see her again, bodily, Thrace will be the guiding force (through artifacts and other finds) that will be reflected in not-too-subtle messages on the path, leaving clues as to the clue's author (Thrace). Perhaps Kara Thrace, not Laura Roslin, is the "dying leader" in the Pythian Prophecy. Just a wild speculation, but it fits with some clues, particularly the Eye. --Spencerian 07:40, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

I still think Starbuck is the first of the RDM Beings of Light. --BklynBruzer 06:01, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

---Bruzer you know part of my theory but for everyone here I'll post it as well. I personaly belive it will come down to Starbuck being a "Jesus" figure from a Lord of Kobol I'm not 100% sure how the writers will make this happen but I think what we saw in that ep was her basically going to meet "daddy". The speculation about her being one of the final 5 isn't true, she is meant for much more then that. I also think in addition to the final 5 we will see the Lords of Kobol on Sunday, this will be the biggest shock of the year as well. You know how the writers like to take us, make us expect to be surprised one way but shock us with something new in the finales. We may even see Baltar be found not guilty, on a side note I think he's the same as Starbuck here but his "daddy" is who I will call Hades, the Fallen Lord who became the Cylon god. --Hentai Jeff 05:49, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Kara Thrace is back!!

I wondered how they were going to play out Kara's "Death" and I'm satisfied if not even more intrigued by the out come. Glad she is back.--Avazina 22:39, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

The Destiny

Not wanting to separate this into its own article, and knowing that this article may not grow for a while (if ever), I added some sourced speculation on Thrace's destiny based on series information in an attempt to tie it together. Hopefully it may enlighten some readers as to the sum data on what is known and lead some insight for the character's actions in the future (if any). Ron Moore does note that the character's "destiny" was not merely to die in a Viper, so this likelihood of something about the character being revealed in season 4 is a probability. --Spencerian 15:37, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

As I have said. BEING. OF. FRAKKING. LIGHT. --BklynBruzer 20:57, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Death Confirmed?

In the podcast for Crossroads, Part II: "Did her death have any meaning? Her death didn't have meaning, but the resurrection of Kara does." Looks like she really bought it. How the resurrection was facilitated is the big question... --Steelviper 09:38, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

It could also refer to a symbolic death and resurrection. -- Gordon Ecker 19:24, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Kinda funny

Some of you might find this "Sheldon" comic amusing. I did. OTW 20:20, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Perfect. :) --Spencerian 21:45, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Young Kara photo

We should probably add a screenshot of Kara when she was younger somewhere here. It should be available from "Maelstrom". -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New 18:38, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Done --Serenity 06:15, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

By Your Command

While visiting Wikipedia's article about Maelstrom, I noticed a neat trivia piece that I have confirmed independently. Right before Kara's Viper explodes at the climax of "Maelstrom", if one listens closely (on a DD 5.1 system or with headphones, if one has the iTunes download), one can hear the distinctive voice of an original series (or Guardian, as per the events of "Razor") Cylon Centurion say "By your command" (the word "command" is muffled by the explosion). At first I thought it was some sound effect used to illustrate the stress of the gas giant's atmosphere on Kara's Viper, but the words "By your" are clearly discernable. I'm not sure if this is something for placement in either the Maelstrom or Kara Thrace articles, so I will leave this up to y'all's better judgment. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jonfucius (talk • contribs).

I've seen this discussion on the Skiffy boards after the episode aired... Frankly, I never heard it myself, even when this discussion first started way back when... It would be nice if we had a soundbyte to test, because I'm sure Peter can take a crack at it and give us something definitive one way or another. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New 22:35, 3 December 2007 (CST)
I have a casual (at best) sound setup and my VCR seems so to be setting foot with its last legs and threading a warbling in the audio, but I played this and I can ceratinly hear an old school Cylon metallic noise as the Viper explodes, so I'm willing to believe this, but I'd prefer to hear a sample with a better audible pitch. --Mars 16:26, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Season 3 - last episode

Regarding the last part of the article there is a point that says that when Kara re-appears near Lee's viper she's riding a brand new Viper Mark II. Cause i read the wiki just after i saw the episode i think this is totally wrong imho. I have saved a screenshot , just at the moment camera seems to go away from both ships http://picasaweb.google.com/billbrando and you can clearly see the differences at the engine part and at the wings structure. If Lee is indeed flying a Viper Mark II what is Kara riding? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bbm4n (talk • contribs).

The point is that the Viper has a pristine paintjob and isn't scratched up like all the others (though that's only said in The Destiny and Ionian Nebula I think). Of course Lee is in a Mark VII. The article doesn't say anything else. -- Serenity 11:36, 28 January 2008 (CST)
See also Viper Mark II and Viper Mark VII for pictures of both Viper models. --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 11:40, 28 January 2008 (CST)

so if i get it right from the images, the red lined Viper (Mark II) is the one that is piloted by Kara and the unpainted one is a Viper Mark VII piloted by Apollo. I thought he was piloting a Mark II but you're right that must be one from Pegasus.Bbm4n 12:25, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Not necessarily from Pegasus; Galactica did retain a few Mark VIIs after the Cylon attack, although they had to be downgraded to avoid the CNP backdoor. --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 15:50, 28 January 2008 (CST)

License Plate on Kara's Hummvee

Looking through some BSG-pages I recognised that seemingly noone has an explanation. Maybe it's a symbol for Kara's suppressed femininity: The Code on the Car "FB 42 E3" read as a HTML hexadecimal representation of color can be interpreted as "frakking PINK". --Anakin 00:38, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. Does anyone know of a site that can interpret HTML hex code so this can be independently confirmed? -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 13:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Just frakking google it! :) http://www.kenjikojima.com/java/RGBHexConverter2.html -- Serenity 14:11, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Consequently, I found this. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 17:53, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Starbuck-A

Just want to throw this out for discussion. Should the current Starbuck be treated like a separate entity now (maybe not a separate article, but like different version of a Cylon model)? -- FrankieG 20:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I think we should wait until after Daybreak clears things up. -- Gordon Ecker 06:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Thrace is a part of Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Thrace Someone could. include it as a potential reference. --Thinker 23:05, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Split

Maybe this should be split into Kara Thrace and Virtual Kara Thrace, given what Daybreak implied about her? --Space Lizard 16:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

If everyone was able to see her, how "virtual" can she be, compared to the virtual Six and Baltar? And she was able to do concrete things, such as fly aircraft and shoot down enemy Raiders.-- Fredmdbud 00:34, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Thrace is Galactica's final CAG?

Wasn't it Helo? During the mutiny, one of the "Sunshine Boys" mentions that he was made CAG, and he gives the final pilot briefing before the Battle of the Colony. Was Thrace's return to the position of CAG ever mentioned in dialogue since "The Oath"?-- Fredmdbud 00:32, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Origin of the name 'Kara Thrace'

Kara is also the name of the first female F-14 pilot Kara Spears Hultgreen who died in an accident while trying to land on board an aircraft carrier. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen

Thrace, besides being a geographic region of Greece, is also the origin of the famous statue the Winged Victory of Samothrace. A statue of the ancient Greek goddess of Victory "Nike".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_Victory_of_Samothrace

Unless there is evidence to the contrary this seems like a possible origin of the name of one of the most memorable and powerful female characters in a television series.

Who, and what, Starbuck actually is

Starbuck is/was Aurora, the goddess of the dawn; more modern, a manifestation of Shiva in Hinduism. Now before you go thinking that an Avatar is some character in the movie Avatar, let me use the Hindu definition of an Avatar as being the descent of a deity to the earth in an incarnate form or some manifest shape; the incarnation of a god. What’s a Shiva? Shiva is the Hindu goddess that is known as the Harbinger of Death and the Restorer of Worlds. Likewise, Aurora is considered as the goddess of the dawn.

Now, with these definitions acting as the method of analysis for Starbuck’s being, let’s look at the justification. In the movie Razor the first Cylon hybrid refers to Kara Thrace as the Harbinger of Death. This definition of Kara was also used by varying Hybrids throughout the rest of the series. How was she the Harbinger of Death? When Starbuck was resurrected it was her task to restore mankind by acting as a guide to Earth. However, when she led the human caravan to Earth they found a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Human hope vanished the way life did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki! Varying crew members committed suicide, sewed mutiny within the fleet, and created mass depression among all mankind- literally being the Harbinger of Death, to hope.

Needless to say, this Avatar of Shiva/Aurora had to also be the restorer of worlds, and Starbuck did this in spades! In the finale of BSG Starbuck was able to use the mathematical elements of the music her father played to plot the course to a life-filled planet. This planet acted as the incubator of all life as we know it. The humans, and Cylon-human hybrids, were able to successfully mate amongst themselves, and the planet’s indigenous life what seemed like Neanderthal man. Thus, restoring life to lifelessness.

Not good enough?

Towards the latter half of season 3 Starbuck went through immense suffering (suffering being the central tenet in Hinduism). We saw what she went through with her mother (her mother stating that she had to put young Kara through hell because of her higher purpose); furthermore, the self-hatred Starbuck had for herself during her love triangle with Lee and Sam almost ripped apart her psyche. Additionally, constant drunkenness, random sex, and her suicide are all indicators of her suffering. Only after Starbuck was able to let go and detach herself from her material desires and accept the way of the universe, and succumb to her death in the maelstrom, was she able to be resurrected as the Avatar Shiva.

Finally, let’s remember the flashbacks seen in the show’s finale. The only thing Starbuck was afraid of was “not being remembered. I don’t want to be forgotten.” This aspiration was no mere statement of vanity; rather, if you look throughout the course of human history you will always find a god, goddess, social movement leader, etc who can be considered as a virus to the current system while at the same time being an agent of new beginnings. And in that vein, Starbuck was never forgotten. First it was Aurora, then Athena, then Starbuck, presently Shiva, more modernly Martin Luther King, the list goes on. It was Starbuck’s ROLE that enabled her to never worry about her highest fear: that the agent of a new dawn will continually exist in human society. The only reason she gets the status of an Avatar, though, is because she is somehow connected to another being that hates to be called “God.” --Themario 15:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)



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