Talk:Characters eliminated from suspicion/Archive 1

I don't get why death disproves a character as a Cylon. We're talking about the final five here. If one of them died, they would of course not reappear on board the fleet, but could very well appear as one of the final five later. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bradtem (talk • contribs).

As noted (ad nauseum) on the talk page of the Humanoid Cylon speculation article, death removes a character from suspicion because ONLY a Cylon can return from the dead. If the character returns, they are obviously a Cylon. Until the other Cylon characters are actually revealed on-air, however, we don't know who has returned (and cannot speculate further--that's fanwanking). Thus, dead is dead unless the character is truly revealed in a show. --Spencerian 23:01, 3 March 2007 (CST)

Why are any of these eliminated

I've said it before, but Saul Tigh as Cylon seems to confirm it. I don't see how any of these characters can be eliminated. Based on Tyrol, it seems likely that Final Five cylons can breed without trouble. I see nothing in the show to indicate they are at risk from the virus. Age and having fought in the Cylon war are not barriers -- the Final Five are, as is now clear, a different breed of Cylon that, like Tigh, are older than the Cylons we have seen in the show. I see nothing that says they can't breed, can't be somebody's child (Tigh was a teenage warrior, Tyrol remembers his childhood though that could be a fake memory) can't handle the virus, can't have brothers and sisters or have long associations. It's very likely (I would even say close to confirmed) that they are older than the colonies themselves.

Alas, even the above rule that a character that returns from death must be a Cylon is now false. We certainly aren't sure that the returned Starbuck is the final Cylon, and there's evidence she is not.

I suspect we need to rethink the page about the remaining member of the Final 5. Nobody (except the 11 known Cylons) is eliminated from suspicion. It's worth documenting unusual events which might point the finger at any given character, but the old rules are gone.--Bradtem 03:56, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Cally and Helo are eliminated because they were able to successfully breed with Cylons, Lee and Kacey are eliminated because they have living human parents, Hot Dog, Racetrack and Erin Mathias are eliminated due to exposure to the lymphocyic encephalopathy. William Adama and Lee Adama are eliminated because they have verified character histories dating back to birth. Laura Roslyn and Tom Zarek are the only living characters on this list who are still candidates. -- Gordon Ecker 06:43, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

We don't know that Cylons can't breed with other Cylons, only that they haven't been able to do it yet. Wasn't love pointed out as a missing ingredient in one of the episodes? Tom Zarek and Laura are fair game as you pointed out as well. The "dead" characters shouldn't be on this list, because obviously if we included every crewmember that was killed we'd have a pretty long list (even if you only included characters on Tory's level). We don't even know if the final five are susceptible to that virus that killed the others, because we've not seen them exposed to it. Basically, I agree with Bradtem that until we see/hear differently the Final Five break all the rules, and only a few exceptions (Bill Adama and high profile people who had children before Hera. If he was a Cylon it was possible he could have children, but the cylons not knowing about their most high profile sleeper agent breeding is unlikely.) can be discounted.

There is also the fact that I mentioned on another page: that in the case of the Final Five, there does not necessarily have to mean that the rules are the same. For example, even though Galen's a Cylon, that does not necessarily mean he's lying about his parents, nor that they were made up - bear in mind, he may have been adopted (though I won't go into more detail to avoid fanwanking). For that matter, we're still not even sure that the "returned" Starbuck is actually Kara back in action and not just Lee going insane in the membrane.--み使い Mitsukai 22:29, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

I still think that we should assume that any rule which applies to the other Cylons applies equally to the final five until that individual rule has been refuted. The only rules which Crossroads invalidated are the 2 year rule and the Ragnar Anchorage radiation rule. -- Gordon Ecker 00:43, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Actually, the Ragnar radiation rule was never truly invalidated, since Boomer was never affected by it either... Also, it took time for Aaron Doral to start exhibiting symptoms before the other Cylons rescued him. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 10:15, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Sorry, but this assumption that any rule that applies to the other Cylons applies to the #1 Cylon until refuted is exactly the assumption which made the previous speculation page _completely worthless_. Not only has the show not told us the rules are the same, it has very explicitly told us the rules are very, very different. I tried, with no success, to get people to realize they were making big assumptions that were not confirmed in the show. Is it really necessary to say that again? Before, the show was just suggesting that the F5 are under entirely different rules, now it's screaming it and RDM is saying it in interviews.--Bradtem 13:26, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

As another option, we could could treat each of the remaining rules a character violates as evidence suggesting they may not be a Cylon rather than definitive proof that they are not a Cylon. The last Cylon might violate some of the remaining rules, but I don't think he or she is going to violate all the remaining rules like William Adama. -- Gordon Ecker 16:18, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Or, just a silly thought, we could always ask Bradley whether or not the Final Five are from the same genetic pool that the Significant Seven are... -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 16:50, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

A Measure of Salvation

I'm kind of surprised that no one noted that Adama and others met with the Lymphocytic encephalitis-infected Simon without quarantine procedures. Also, Doc Cottle should really be here as well, since he is exposed to Lymphocytic encephalitis as well (from checking on the prisoners), but does not fall ill from it. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 10:08, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

True. I hadn't considered that. However, what was the established transmission mechanism of the illness (if any)? Airborne? Fluid? Funky-bio-Cylon-electronsmission? (Just bounce the tetrion beam off the deflector dish, silly.) That is to say, even if they were standing in the same room wouldn't necessarily mean that the illness could have been transmitted to them. Though if Cottle had been infected, I suppose he could still be giving himself injections of the vaccine (indefinitely). If anybody else were infected, though, it'd be awfully suspicious if they needed frequent injections of the stuff. --Steelviper 10:41, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

I don't recall there being any. But it more than likely was airborne, seeing as the entire ship was affected by it. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 10:51, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

I'd tend to agree, but it could just as easily have been fluid based (what with all the liquid based control interfaces), or even sexually transmitted (uh... yeah). The fact that the Raiders and Centurions also appear to have been affected may have been a factor of the Hybrid/entire basestar being knocked out, but may also point to a more electronic/networking transmission (which potentially would be even more virulent than airborne, and wouldn't even need direct contact.) --Steelviper 11:08, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Right. It'd be nice if we actually see some Cylons getting the freak on just for fun (after all dolphins and humans do the same thing). ;-) Back to the issue though, I imagine that physical content or bodily fluids would be likely as well. (After all the encephalitis was carried by rats, much like the Black Plague in the 14th century.) So, on second thought, it could go either way. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 11:25, 28 March 2007 (CDT)