Talk:Precipice/Archive 1: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 01:58, 11 April 2020

For earlier discussions in this talk page prior to October 3, 2006, click here.

Production Number

What's up with "Episode 1.5"? Shouldn't this count as episode 2 of the season, even if it's being aired as a 2-hour premiere? --April Arcus 03:53, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

Thats what ive always said, but for some reason all the episode numbering is messed up. --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 04:35, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

The writers officially count "Occupation / Precipice" as one episode. Bradley Thompson said that there will probably be only one intro. So "Precipice" still belongs to episode 1 (hence 1.5) and Season 3 only has 19 episodes on paper --Serenity 05:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

However, in terms of budgeting and production, "Occupation/Precipice" was 3.01 and 3.02, while "Exodus, Part I" and "Exodus, Part II" were both 3.03. Clearly our numbering system shouldn't reflect the vagaries of production, or else both parts of "Resurrection Ship" would be episodes 2.11 and Season 2 would only have 19 episodes.

At the same time, we should ask - were "Occupation" and "Precipice" truly edited into a single episode, or is SciFi simply airing two episodes back to back on premiere night? In the event of the former, there should be a single entry for both "Occupation" and "Precipice". In the latter, they should retain separate entries, and each should have their own episode number (and none of this "1.5" business). --April Arcus 05:34, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

FWIW, SciFi's schedule has the premiere listed as a single two-hour block under the title "The Occupation/Precipice". I'd lay good money on them splitting it into two episodes for syndication, though. --April Arcus 05:37, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

Well, you could wait until the episodes have aired and edit it then. But I asked Mr. Thompson about just this, and he said "I have not seen the transition yet, but I believe it will be one episode. Which is why Episode 19 is the season 3 finale" in BW:OC. Good point about syndication though. Maybe the place where the break would be is cleary visible. --Serenity 05:43, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

Having given it considerable thoght, I think the best reason not to merge them into a single article is that I don't want to be citing (The Occupation/Precipice) as a single unit for the rest of time. --April Arcus 06:15, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

One thing I think people aren't getting that that there ARE 20 episodes. "Occuprice" is episode 1, Exodus part 1 is episode 2, so on, totaling up to twenty. (I think) --BklynBruzer 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Whoops, scratch my previous comment that was here, I was wrong. For what it's worth, my DirecTV guide has it as a single two hour airing. With a repeat right after. Methinks that'll be good if there's a podcast for em.--BklynBruzer 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

There are twenty hours, and (if Occupation/Precipice is counted as one episode) nineteen episodes. --April Arcus 17:34, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Why not refer to Occupation/Precipice as "Episode 1," the following episode as "Episode 3," place a link to "Episode 1" on the Precipice page, and whenever Precipice is referred to as a separate episode, call it "Episode 2." Put a brief summary of Precipice in the Episode 2 article, put anything specific to Episode 2 in that article (if, say, there is a single Episode 2 podcast), and refer to the combined page for everything else. Joe n bloe 12:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Suggestion

Here's a thought: Let's follow SciFi's lead with the podcasts. If they put up podcasts for two four-act shows, we'll keep it as two episodes; if they put up a single podcast for an eight-act show, we'll merge them into a single Occupation/Precipice article. --April Arcus 17:38, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Ya know, so far this is the best suggestion in this whole conversation because I somehow get the feeling that they at scifi are themselves not yet certain about what to call these 2 opening 5 act pieces,but by the time the show starts on Friday, I'm sure they will have it figured out so let's not do their job for them and try to guess what they will do. --Straycat0 16:08, 4 October 2006 (AST)

I suggest we wait till they air, and see if there's an end between the two. For what it's worth, my DirecTV onscreen guide is showing one two hour block with a repeat right after it. That'll be nice for the podcasts, watch the episode, then right after watch it with commentary. --BklynBruzer 20:21, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Moore refers to the show as "Occupation/Precipice" in his latest blog entry. --April Arcus 01:04, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

RDM often will lead off each podcast with (outside the I'm RDM, etc.) "and this is episode X of season Y, 'Z'". That may provide some insight as well if he continues that practice. --Steelviper 06:53, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

SciFi.com gives the two-hour premiere production numbers 301 and 302. --April Arcus 01:36, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Using the second content warning after the bombing as the start of Precipice. --FrankieG 06:43, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

RDM states this on the podcast too. Baltar/Roslin cell scene is the first of Precipice. --FrankieG 09:07, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Exactly what I was going to say but noticed my comment didnt post (edit conflict) hehe --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 13:04, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Agree. Two different episodes. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 13:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Pic

What's that gold thing on Helo's lapel/uniform? --BklynBruzer 12:52, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

Here is a better pic Image:Greys_Mini.JPG. I believe that it is a symbol for the twelve colonies. But Kat doesn't have it?? --FrankieG 13:11, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

It's a version of the Colonial seal with a smaller Phoenix in the center: http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=26&pos=81 --Serenity 13:17, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

If we don't have a pic here, we need it. :) --FrankieG 13:18, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

The best option is probably to make a high resolution screencap from DVD (if a suitable closeup is available). Episodes with dress grays: Miniseries, Act of Contrition, Home II --Serenity 13:25, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

In the episode itself, Kat's Grays does have the lapel pin. I was specifically looking for it in the scene, it must be a mistake in this picture. --Talos 10:12, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Yeah, made sure I checked that too. --FrankieG 10:14, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Kacey

I'd like to start a page for Kara's daughter, but I'm not really sure how to spell her name. Casey? Kasey? If it is Casey, we'll need to disambiguate, as there's already a pilot named that. Alpha5099 13:47, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

I don't suppose anybody was watching with captions on? --April Arcus 14:22, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

The credits have it has "Kacey" in the credits. Also, spelled that way the RDM Chicago Tribune article. --FrankieG 14:51, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

I had the captions on, and it was "Kacey". --ThesposAZ 02:37, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

I am a captions type of guy also. :) --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 02:39, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

Hey on the Answers thing for Kara's Duaghter says 16 months. That can't be right because it had to come to termm which would take nine months so two months after Baltar becomes the presisdent and the episode is 16 months subtract 2 months and she would be 14 months old and not 16 months old.- Best Snorkel378

Incorrect. Baltar was elected c. Day 280. The one-year jump brought us to c. Day 660 by the end of LDYB2. Occupation began on the 134th day of the Cylon occupation, bringing us to c. Day 794 - roughly 27 months after the holocaust. Kara's ovary was removed during The Farm, which took place roughly 2 months after the holocaust. Add nine months for gestation and we get 27-(2+9) = 16. --April Arcus 14:36, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

To clarify - your problem is that you're rounding dates down and the error is accumulating. The jump forward in LDYB2 was 380 days, which is about 12 and 2/3 months. Then the jump between LDYB2 and Occupation is 134 days, which is 4 and 1/2 months. On top of it, the election in LDYB2 didn't take place exactly 270 days after the holocaust - the debates lasted about ten days, which is another 1/3 month, and the events of "Downloaded" were also said to be about 9 months post-holocaust, which pushes LDYB2 a few days forward to make everything fit. --April Arcus 14:48, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

Does anyone think that Kacey might have been deliberately injured while Kara was out of the room, to force her sentiments? The Cylons have been shown to inflict wounds on one another for the purpose of emotional manipulation before, to encourage feelings of love between humans and Cylons (the Litmus episode). Since Kara's imprisonment seems to be one big mind game, I can't shake this feeling. --tt25 15:57, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

I believe this to be likely. However, this is assuming that Kasey is Kara's biological child -- or even a hybrid at all. Kasey could just as easily be a child they picked up off the streets of New Caprica to mind-frak Kara. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 15:51, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

I think, the actress does not fit to Kasey's age of 16 month. Children do their first steps, when they are about one year old. Kasey trampolines on the sofa and runs around. Her behaviour is too safe. -- Tirkon 11:53, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

She is however a human/cylon hybrid and might not necesserily match human development. --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 12:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

The producers have been clear that Hera, another human/Cylon hybrid, will not have unusually fast growth. Noneofyourbusiness 12:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

If anything, Hera has unusually SLOW growth. The scene where her adopted mother goes to be with her at the end of season 2 shows a baby, yet this was clearly 12+ months after she was born. She should have been larger and such. Bstone 03:11, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

She was born prematurely. Noneofyourbusiness 19:48, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Was that even Hera then though, or was it just a random other baby being looked after in the school/creché? --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 04:24, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

It was named as "Isis", but the child's asian features, the fact that the mother was Maya (Hera's adopted mother in "Downloaded"), and (most tellingly) the white crib from Baltar's vision in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" imply that the child is Hera beyond all reasonable doubt. Also, recall that Roslin had intended to keep a close eye on the child, and note RDM's comments regarding an abandoned plotline featuring Hera/Isis in the Occuprice podcast. --April Arcus 04:28, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

I just want to bring up the fudge factor when determining kasey's age in that she could have been a premee just like Hera. You could add as much as 3 months to her development. So what was the guess, 16 months? Add 3 months to that as a fudge factor and you get 19 months, that's close to 2 years. And since Cylon related births have a history of difficulty (No Cylon/Cylon children, all known forced Cylon/Human pregnancy have fail -- The Farm, first known surviving Cylon/Human baby <Hera> was a premee), it's reasonable to figure in a fudge factor. --Straycat0 14:32, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Here is a thought. The cylon bodies that are waiting to be downloaded into have to be grown, right? Maybe they stopped the growth process of a Six, and that is where Kacey came from? Just another "could be." in the BSG world.--CylonGod 00:17, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Nice thought, but what indicator is there that the bodies of Cylon agents have to be grown? IIRC, Starbuck's flyby of the Resurrection Ship only showed adult Sixes in their vats. It could be that they're constructed as adults from the get-go and not aged from a fetal core.--み使い Mitsukai 13:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

In Rapture (Season 3, Episode 12), Sharon Agathon tells us that Cylons have medical experience only with the adult humanoids of their kind. This suggests that they do not grow, but are constructed as adults. Dogger55 06:51, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Citations

I added citations but it somehow made the spoiler text unreadable. Noneofyourbusiness 11:56, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

I noted this and was unsuccessful in adding them back myself as I was massively concising the article while you made the attempt. I am adding the links here (WARNING: These links go to interviews that contain spoilers and, as with the technical issues, can't be hidden.)

comments from Grace Park, Dean Stockwell, and Tricia Helfer

--Spencerian 18:05, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Does anyone have the copies of Battlestar Galactica Magazine so we can create official cites? I know these articles exist. but we really need the official "cite". --FrankieG 19:00, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Agree. Linking to a members-only message board is hardly satisfactory. --April Arcus 03:54, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

Concur. I have the July issue and will look for the comments. I may have the Grace Park issue as well to confirm. --Spencerian 08:37, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

Fairly sure that the Dean Stockwell comments are in the last issue, 7. --FrankieG 09:26, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

The citations linked above have all been deleted, and were never accessible to non-members in the first place. If the comments referring to these articles are to continue in the main namespace, then citations from the BSG magazine (or another appropriate source) must be supplied promptly. --April Arcus 18:53, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Here's an example that still works: http://galactica-station.blogspot.com/2006/09/six-shooter_115935580941130304.html I wish I could give a citation from the magazine, but I don't have any issues of it. Could someone please do that? -- Noneofyourbusiness 14:44, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Ahem, has no one noticed the above? -- Noneofyourbusiness 09:22, 8 November 2006 (CST)

Cylon on Cylon action

Boomer's destruction of the basestar is a bad example, as being a sleeper agent she didn't have the cultural taboo active, and her success appears to have been instrumental in getting her in position to accomplish her mission. I'd use an example of known Cylon on known Cylon on that bullet (which I don't have off the top of my head). --Steelviper 17:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. That doesn't really make any sense. There might be Caprica-Sharon shooting a Six in "33", but one could argue that that doesn't count, because it was necessary. However, she does shoot another Sharon in "Colonial Day". -- Serenity 17:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

How about Caprica-Sharon using a Heavy Raider to shoot the crap out of some Centurions in The Farm? --Catrope^{(Talk to me or e-mail me)} 18:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

We're talking humanoid Cylons here. -- Serenity 18:04, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Not according to the quote, which says "Cylon-on-Cylon violence". But even then, Caprica-Sharon shot a fellow Sharon in Colonial Day. D'Anna's statement may not be true, but she has no way of knowing that. The nuke in the basestar was done by a sleeper agent and had been ordered by a human, the Sharon in Colonial Day never saw her attacker, the Centurions who were shot to pieces in The Farm didn't resurrect (since they have no biological components, I think it's reasonable to assume Centurions have no conciousness and therefore don't download) and the Heavy Raider involved in that incident was taken to Galactica and never got a chance to communicate with the Cylons. --Catrope^{(Talk to me or e-mail me)} 19:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

She is referring to the attack on her in "Downloaded" and from their point of view, the humanoids are the Cylon. So by context, she's just talking about the humanoid models. You're right about the limited knowledge though. -- Serenity 19:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Even though the others did not witness Caprica-Sharon shooting a fellow Sharon, the dead Sharon would have resurrected. Given that the Cylons were engaged in an extensive manhunt for Helo and Caprica-Sharon, it stretches credibility to suggest that she would not have reported the shooting when she returned. D'Anna immediately recognizes Caprica-Sharon when she catches her taking the launch keys, so it does seem odd that D'Anna would not know that significant detail of Caprica-Sharon's history. Dogger55 12:43, 6 July 2011 (EDT), Revised 03:56, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

This guide...

Is just plain bad. We need to expand, cleanup, and fix up! All people who have the Season 3 disc set, load this disc up and fix! Make it Act 1, etc. etc. Shane (talk) 22:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that too. We didn't really do such extremely detailed summaries back then, but even for that time it seems lacking. The Analysis section could also be improved. -- Serenity 23:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

trucks

Where did the trucks come from? What ship in the colonial or cylon fleet would have trucks aboard and for what purpose? Could they have been designed and built within the 15 months on the planet? They also look remarkably "Earth" like, perhaps more than any other design in the series. Therefore it would be appropriate and interesting to give these a mention. Xlynx 14:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, we've seen trucks in the series before on Caprica, so it's not a new development. There presence on New Caprica could be explained one of two ways:

They were aboard a Colonial freighter that joined the Fleet—and if you really want to be a nerd about it, you could say that they were on the Colonial Movers ship. ;-)
The Cylons built them. They had the resources to build the detention center and all that, and as such they would need equipment to do that (cranes, trucks, etc).

-- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 15:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Settlers had trucks before the Cylons arrived. Near the beginning of Scar, trucks are moving on the asteroid surface beneath the ore mining ship Majahual. You first see a truck on New Caprica near the end of Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II, as the camera first pans out of the window of Colonial One, and other trucks are seen as the camera moves overhead to show the entire settlement. Galactica or Pegasus may have had trucks for invasion purposes, but we didn't see them because they weren't needed before they settled on New Caprica. American naval forces in WW2, for example, carried land vehicles to various island landings in the Pacific and to the D-Day landing in Normandy. Also, many domestic manufacturers were converted to military production during WW2, so perhaps Adama did the reverse and used Viper manufacturing facilities to make trucks for the settlers. Dogger55 10:52, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Those were landrams, and they were featured in "Razor" in one of Pegasus' landing bays as well, but you make a very good point. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 13:00, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Near the end of Unfinished Business (Extended), a truck goes by in the background after Adama tells Lee that Kara just got married. In the DVD/Blu-Ray Commentary, Ron Moore and editor Michael O'Halloran say that the settlers had trucks and the one in that scene justified the use of trucks in "Precipice". Dogger55 15:36, 8 July 2011 (EDT)

Cylon numbers revealed?

I just noticed that when the cylons vote aboard Colonial One, they do so in numerical order. Coincidence, or first hint? Is it worth mentioning? Caldumidoan 09:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-__TOC__
+: For earlier discussions in this talk page prior to October 3, 2006, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Precipice&oldid=81257 click here].
-==Spoiler Source==
+__TOC__
-I've listened through a couple episodes of the linked radio show. It appears to be a political talk show - which episode contained the spoiler details, and how were they presented? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:39, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
-:Further, could you tell us which specific episode this info appears in?  What if this guy just saw the same early (wrong) script drafts I mentioned before, then read them on radio as if fact? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 22:55, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
-::Peter, I'm trying to get to the bottom of all of these rumors:  '''I consider them all as "accurate" as the unfounded rumors that the show would move to NBC!'''  I asked Ron's wife in the messageboard but she has yet to return for a day or two and I'm iffy on whether or not she'd answer questions like this: I prefeced it by saying that I wasn't just a fan, but reporting it on BattleStarWiki and would spread corrections to other news sites, etc. (roving reporter) so I didn't just sound like one man that wanted to know.  I hope that helped.  But seriously, all of this isn't adding up. --->if you follow the link to that supposed early draft page, ''half of it'' has cross out marks on it.  And usually most of an episode is heavily revised.  ''IF'' this is even real! --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 22:59, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
-:::The cross-out marks are for the parts that the oracle character isn't in, since it's a casting side for that particular role. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:04, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
-::::Gotcha.  My other complaints stand.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:26, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
-Kuralyov, if you can't provide an exact source, this needs to be deleted. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:20, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
+==Production Number==
-:That's kind of what I meant, yeah Peter.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:28, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
+What's up with "Episode 1.5"? Shouldn't this count as episode 2 of the season, even if it's being aired as a 2-hour premiere? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 03:53, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-::Well, I wanted to give him a chance to get back to us about it. Do we even have a source for the title? If not, we should just delete the page outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:29, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
+:Thats what ive always said, but for some reason all the episode numbering is messed up. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 04:35, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-:::Yes, but meanwhile, we have to have SOMETHING for "Occupation" even though I think it's not true, because Gateworld and such already reported it, but just to keep warnings in saying that we don't know how true it is.  We've all seen wrong rumors before, haven't we?  Last time I trusted one of these things, I thought that ''Cally'' would kill Crashdown in "Fragged"!  After that I realized how unreliable these "early reports" are.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:32, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
+:The writers officially count "Occupation / Precipice" as one episode. Bradley Thompson said that there will probably be only one intro. So "Precipice" still belongs to episode 1 (hence 1.5) and Season 3 only has 19 episodes on paper --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-::::We're not talking about Occupation here, and the source of those rumors (the casting side) is a settled matter anyway. Gateworld is no longer cited. The question is, do we have a source for "Precipice"? Even gateworld would be sufficient here, just something better than Kuralyov's word and a link to a talk radio station. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:36, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
+::However, in terms of budgeting and production, "Occupation/Precipice" was 3.01 and 3.02, while "Exodus, Part I" and "Exodus, Part II" were both 3.03. Clearly our numbering system shouldn't reflect the vagaries of production, or else both parts of "Resurrection Ship" would be episodes 2.11 and Season 2 would only have 19 episodes.
-::::Yes.  To be honest, when I followed the link I couldn't even find the interview, but this may be due to my own lack of techno savvy :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:39, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
+::At the same time, we should ask - were "Occupation" and "Precipice" truly edited into a single episode, or is SciFi simply airing two episodes back to back on premiere night? In the event of the former, there should be a single entry for both "Occupation" and "Precipice". In the latter, they should retain separate entries, and each should have their own episode number (and none of this "1.5" business). --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 05:34, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-:::::I must be having trouble communicating today - No, I couldn't find it either, which is why I've brought this up. If Kuralyov can identify the particular interview in question, then we can cite it directly and keep the content he added here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:43, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
+:::FWIW, [http://www.scifi.com/schedulebot/index.php3?date=6-OCT-2006&feed_req SciFi's schedule] has the premiere listed as a single two-hour block under the title "The Occupation/Precipice". I'd lay good money on them splitting it into two episodes for syndication, though. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 05:37, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-::::::Found it. Transcribing. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:50, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
+::::Well, you could wait until the episodes have aired and edit it then. But I asked Mr. Thompson about just this, and he said "I have not seen the transition yet, but I believe it will be one episode. Which is why Episode 19 is the season 3 finale" in BW:OC. Good point about syndication though. Maybe the place where the break would be is cleary visible. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:43, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::::Having given it considerable thoght, I think the best reason not to merge them into a single article is that I don't want to be citing ([[The Occupation/Precipice]]) as a single unit for the rest of time. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 06:15, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-<del>I have found where Koenigrules gets the early script fragments they send out for guest casting people to use for actor auditions. Lots of season 2 stuff (consicuously, according to a messageboard user's short bio of KoenigRules that I posted below, he never reported spoilers before season 2). I do believe that this is where he got most of the info he later gave, which wound up on Gateworld and such. Remember how we originally thought [[Gina]] was a civilian dock worker, and that Pegasus had been boarded? This is in what is apparently the rough early script of "''Pegasus''". I dare not post a link here. We should not even use these things. A) There is a line between "news from a Katee Sackhoff interview" and "someone gave out a copy of the script, want a read?". If Ron Moore himself in confidence handed me a FINALIZED script and let me read it....I could not in good conscience report information from it. That's why I frown upon TheDigitalAlchemist's decision to post screencaps of the season 2 finale on the official messageboard several days before it aired, which even Ron Moore chastised in his blog. That's the first reason, but MORE importantly --->B ) These things are early rough edit drafts. They're not finalized. Many times, they don't really resemble scenes that were filmed, much less ones that made the final cut. Others contain deleted information which was later contradicted. All of these were just "ideas the writing team was throwing around". They're not real and were never finalized. So out of respect for the other fans, respect for the production team's efforts, and because many of these early draft script fragments are so different from the final version that they do not qualify as even reliable spoilers, I am not going to repost them here. If you have a driving need to prove that I know this: well, KoenigRules told me to just take his word for it. Yeah right. I don't want you guys to take my word that I "found his source". If you are desperate, give me a Private Message on my official Scifi.com site account, and I'll PM it back. But these things can never see the light of day. Well, maybe ''transcripts'' of ones for episodes that have aired, but as new scripts get added from new season 3 episodes....we can't let people know where this page is, lest they see all of season 3's storylines in advance like that. However, I have found it. I'll try to match it up with everything, but basically every rumor of something happening that never materialized....Cain having PTSD, etc.....is present in these early drafts and you can see that those early reports must have been based on them.</del>
+::::::One thing I think people aren't getting that that there ARE 20 episodes. "Occuprice" is episode 1, Exodus part 1 is episode 2, so on, totaling up to twenty. (I think) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
-I really think we shouldn't post links to the spoiler-ific early draft scripts that Koenigrules had access to.  There's a certain line of spoilers that we would insult the production team and ourselves if we crossed.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 02:51, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
+::::::Whoops, scratch my previous comment that was here, I was wrong. For what it's worth, my DirecTV guide has it as a single two hour airing. With a repeat right after. Methinks that'll be good if there's a podcast for em.--[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::::::There are twenty ''hours'', and (if Occupation/Precipice is counted as one episode) nineteen episodes. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 17:34, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
-:You're not talking about [http://www.nowcasting.com/sides/Episodic/BATTLESTAR%20GALACTICA/ this directory] on NowCasting.com, linked off of [[Occupation]], are you? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:47, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
+:Why not refer to Occupation/Precipice as "Episode 1," the following episode as "Episode 3," place a link to "Episode 1" on the Precipice page, and whenever Precipice is referred to as a separate episode, call it "Episode 2." Put a brief summary of Precipice in the Episode 2 article, put anything specific to Episode 2 in that article (if, say, there is a single Episode 2 podcast), and refer to the combined page for everything else. [[User:Joe n bloe|Joe n bloe]] 12:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
-::I haven't slept in 24 hours.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 02:52, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
-:::You seem to say this often. Maybe you should try and get more rest. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:55, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
-::::"We'll sleep when we're dead". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 14:06, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
-===LV Rocks Transcript===
-: ''Transcription moved to [[Sources:Precipice]].'' -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:30, 15 April 2006 (CDT)
-==Question about Koenigrules==
-I know that he is a big name on Galacticastation.com, and a regular contributor at Subject2Discussion since its inception, but just exactly how "sourced" is this source?  How does Koenigrules know this stuff?  Is it possible...that he simply read the same stuff we did? What are HIS qualifications?  Great work transcribing Peter.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup>
-:Having transcribed this, it's obvious that he knows absolutely nothing more than what we do from having skimmed the casting side and made a few logical predictions. The only new piece of information we have here is the title for the episode, so at least we have someone to cite; but I'm not at all satisfied with this as a source. Nothing else here was original information, so I'd like to find out the originator for the title. FYI to Kuralyov: I'm not going to do this again, so do your homework next time you post spoilers: quotes and citations. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:29, 15 April 2006 (CDT)
-::I had thought as much. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:05, 15 April 2006 (CDT)
-::Another bit of original information was that Ellen Tigh will die in the first couple of episodes. You can't really infer that from the casting side.
---[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:28, 15 April 2006 (EST)
+===Suggestion===
+Here's a thought: Let's follow SciFi's lead with the podcasts. If they put up podcasts for two four-act shows, we'll keep it as two episodes; if they put up a single podcast for an eight-act show, we'll merge them into a single Occupation/Precipice article. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 17:38, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
+:Ya know, so far this is the best suggestion in this whole conversation because I somehow get the feeling that they at scifi are themselves not yet certain about what to call these 2 opening 5 act pieces,but by the time the show starts on Friday, I'm sure they will have it figured out so let's not do their job for them and try to guess what they will do. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 16:08, 4 October 2006 (AST)
+::I suggest we wait till they air, and see if there's an end between the two. For what it's worth, my DirecTV onscreen guide is showing one two hour block with a repeat right after it. That'll be nice for the podcasts, watch the episode, then right after watch it with commentary. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:21, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
+Moore refers to the show as "Occupation/Precipice" in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/10/#a001414 latest blog entry]. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 01:04, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
+:RDM often will lead off each podcast with (outside the I'm RDM, etc.) "and this is episode X of season Y, 'Z'". That may provide some insight as well if he continues that practice. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 06:53, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
+[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/season03/ SciFi.com] gives the two-hour premiere production numbers 301 and 302. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 01:36, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
+:Using the second content warning after the ''bombing'' as the start of ''Precipice''. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 06:43, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
+::RDM states this on the podcast too. Baltar/Roslin cell scene is the first of ''Precipice''. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:07, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::Exactly what I was going to say but noticed my comment didnt post (edit conflict) hehe --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 13:04, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
+::Agree. Two ''different'' episodes. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 13:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
-'''It all falls into place now''': I finally found out who Koenigrules is.  Apparently, he is "a writer for Hollywood North Report, and has been since January 05".  This happened some time ago and not all of you may have been here, but remember when we had our ''own'' problems with HollywoodNorthReport?  Well, some time ago during season 2.0 I noticed that ''most'' of HNR's material at that time was a combination of information taken from either ''BattlestarWiki'', or ''The Patriot Resource'' (a very good BSG news site).  Anyway, contact was made with the guy who runs Patriot Resource, and he too noted that HNR seemed to be taking material without crediting the sources.  --->What HNR tends to do is one of two things:  they often take news from other sites, but unlike BattlestarWiki (which always sources news and says where we got it) HNR rarely if ever sourced its material (half-intentionally giving the impression that they were a great news site with original content).  The downshot of this was A) it's a little rude, more importantly B) it makes it hard to determine the truth behind news they report.  The second thing they did was literally cut and paste article information from ''The Patriot Resource'' and ''BattlestarWiki'', whole cloth.  By which I mean the difference is that at BattlestarWiki, of course we get information from other places, but we don't just copy them word for word (if we do we put that in quotes and give it an off site link citation).  But we like, read an article somewhere, then RE-write the information here, '''in our own words'''.  --->Hollywoodnorthreport just '''cut and paste''' articles, without crediting them.  ---->Anyway, the guy who runs ''The Patriot Resource'' was quite nice, and before I could think of what to do, he actually **wrote a letter to HollyWoodNorthReport, pointing out that they were taking information from both his site AND BattlestarWiki, without crediting us.  The response he got was lukewarm at best; they basically denied any of it, said it was free content, whatever, and told us to go away.  We were rebuffed.  Yes, on occassion HNR gets original info...because they've got people in Vancouver who can make trips to the set for interviews and such, but most of their other "news" is just taken from other sources without crediting them.
+==Pic==
-For example, check out this recent thread hyping HNR that Koenigrules made [http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1774784&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1 here]:  on the one hand, I point out to him a flaw in his claims:  you see, Koenigrules reported the rumor...and then Gateworld and Galacticastation reported ''what he said''--->my point being that they weren't "confirming" it from their own independent sources that is, they just actually said "source: Koenigrules".  So I told him "you cannot cite this as proof that there are "multiple cites corroborating your rumors"....when they were just citing ''him in the first place''.  This happened once before:  we reported something here, then PatriotResource reported it (but CITED us), then Gateworld and Galacticastation in turn cited HIM, and finally, HollyWoodNorthReport ran the news as FACT, without giving any citations, and actually said "5 different sites are saying this, so it must be Confirmed!" (this is what made me e-mail the guy who runs Patriot Resource in the first place).  ----->Secondly, you will note on the same thread that user TwobrainedCylon says"   "Is HollywoodNorthReport EVER going to stop using the viper image they stole from me? They should at least swipe a Mark II viper pic to represent this series rather than continuing to rip off my stuff."--->So it appears that HollyWoodNorth Report on a regular basis tends to take information or artwork from around the internet, and refuse to credit anyone else for it, and present it as Their Own.
+What's that gold thing on Helo's lapel/uniform? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:52, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
+:Here is a better pic [[:Image:Greys_Mini.JPG]]. I believe that it is a symbol for the twelve colonies. But Kat doesn't have it?? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:11, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
+:It's a version of the Colonial seal with a smaller Phoenix in the center: http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=26&pos=81 --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:17, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
+::If we don't have a pic here, we need it. :) --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:18, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::The best option is probably to make a high resolution screencap from DVD (if a suitable closeup is available). Episodes with dress grays: Miniseries, Act of Contrition, Home II --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:25, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
+In the episode itself, Kat's Grays does have the lapel pin. I was specifically looking for it in the scene, it must be a mistake in this picture. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:12, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
+:Yeah, made sure I checked that too. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:14, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
-You see, there are those guest cast lists that I meantioned before, right?  Or the early shooting scripts, which say the NAME ONLY of what scene will be filmed what day (such as "Tigh in prison cell with Cavil"....this doesn't give away other plot points, just that Tigh meets Cavil in a prison cell).  '''It is now my firm belief that Koenigrules and his associates at HollyWoodNorth Report try to credit everything they ever hear as true and created entirely by them.  In fact, they know no more than we do.'''  You see, I asked Koenigrules (on the official messageboard) "What exactly is your source?" and he said "I have an inside source close to production that I am unwilling to divulge"......well, isn't that more than a little "conventient"?  '''For all we know, he just showed up as Subject2Discussion one day, claiming to have an exclusive leak source, when it fact all he sees are the casting scripts easily available to hundreds of people free online'''.
+==Kacey==
+I'd like to start a page for Kara's daughter, but I'm not really sure how to spell her name. Casey? Kasey? If it is Casey, we'll need to disambiguate, as there's already a pilot named that. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 13:47, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
+:I don't suppose anybody was watching with captions on? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:22, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
+::The credits have it has "Kacey" in the credits. Also, spelled that way the RDM Chicago Tribune article. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 14:51, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
+::I had the captions on, and it was "Kacey". --[[User:ThesposAZ|ThesposAZ]] 02:37, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
+::I am a captions type of guy also. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 02:39, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
+Hey on the Answers thing for Kara's Duaghter says 16 months. That can't be right because it had to come to termm which would take nine months so two months after Baltar becomes the presisdent and the episode is 16 months subtract 2 months and she would be 14 months old and not 16 months old.- Best Snorkel378
+:Incorrect. Baltar was elected c. Day 280. The one-year jump brought us to c. Day 660 by the end of LDYB2. Occupation began on the 134th day of the Cylon occupation, bringing us to c. Day 794 - roughly 27 months after the holocaust. Kara's ovary was removed during The Farm, which took place roughly 2 months after the holocaust. Add nine months for gestation and we get 27-(2+9) = 16. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:36, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
+::To clarify - your problem is that you're rounding dates down and the error is accumulating. The jump forward in LDYB2 was 380 days, which is about 12 and 2/3 months. Then the jump between LDYB2 and Occupation is 134 days, which is 4 and 1/2 months. On top of it, the election in LDYB2 didn't take place exactly 270 days after the holocaust - the debates lasted about ten days, which is another 1/3 month, and the events of "Downloaded" were ''also'' said to be about 9 months post-holocaust, which pushes LDYB2 a few days forward to make everything fit. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:48, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
+Does anyone think that Kacey might have been deliberately injured while Kara was out of the room, to force her sentiments?  The Cylons have been shown to inflict wounds on one another for the purpose of emotional manipulation before, to encourage feelings of love between humans and Cylons (the Litmus episode). Since Kara's imprisonment seems to be one big mind game, I can't shake this feeling. --[[User:tt25|tt25]] 15:57, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
+: I believe this to be likely. However, this is assuming that Kasey is Kara's biological child -- or even a hybrid at all. Kasey could just as easily be a child they picked up off the streets of New Caprica to mind-frak Kara. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:51, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
+:: I think, the actress does not fit to Kasey's age of 16 month. Children do their first steps, when they are about one year old. Kasey trampolines on the sofa and runs around. Her behaviour is too safe. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 11:53, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::She is however a human/cylon hybrid and might not necesserily match human development. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 12:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
+::::The producers have been clear that Hera, another human/Cylon hybrid, will not have unusually fast growth. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
+::::: If anything, Hera has unusually SLOW growth. The scene where her adopted mother goes to be with her at the end of season 2 shows a baby, yet this was clearly 12+ months after she was born. She should have been larger and such. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 03:11, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::::: She was born prematurely. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:48, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
+::::::Was that even Hera then though, or was it just a random other baby being looked after in the school/creché? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 04:24, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::::::It was named as "Isis", but the child's asian features, the fact that the mother was [[Maya]] (Hera's adopted mother in "[[Downloaded]]"), and (most tellingly) the white crib from Baltar's vision in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" imply that the child is Hera beyond all reasonable doubt. Also, recall that Roslin had intended to keep a close eye on the child, and note RDM's comments regarding an abandoned plotline featuring Hera/Isis in the Occuprice podcast. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 04:28, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
+::::::I just want to bring up the fudge factor when determining kasey's age in that she could have been a premee just like Hera.  You could add as much as 3 months to her development.  So what was the guess, 16 months?  Add 3 months to that as a fudge factor and you get 19 months, that's close to 2 years.  And since Cylon related births have a history of difficulty (No Cylon/Cylon children, all known forced Cylon/Human pregnancy have fail -- The Farm, first known surviving Cylon/Human baby <Hera> was a premee), it's reasonable to figure in a fudge factor.  --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 14:32, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
-Now, benefit of the doubt, logically if he HAD an inside source he could not divulge their identity--->so the only logical thing to do, would be to check all of the reports his "source" has informed him about in the past, and check if they turned out right (often months passed between when he reported it and the episode).  So I asked him directly, "what is something that you have reported based on this, if you cannot tell me what your source is?"  He said "'''That [[Crashdown]], [[Elosha]], and [[Hot Dog]] would die".'''  There are several flaws in this: first off, he just said "die"; he did not say who would kill them.  Most people could have guessed by [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] that Crashdown was going to die on Kobol, based on the plot setup.  Further, guest cast script overview page said something like "Roslin mourns over Elosha"...you could guess she'd die.--->You see, if we based our information on the early spec scripts Koenigrules does...well, in the early draft of "Bastille Day" that went out Cally died, in the early draft of "Fragged" circulated we were told that ''Cally'' shot Crashdown, etc. etc.  Perhaps worst of all, '''Hot Dog is not dead''', he is alive and well at the end of the season.  In the personal message to me, he said Hot Dog was dead.  I responsed that assuredly, he meant someone else, as "Hot Dog" is not dead.  And he responded, confirming his position that "Bodie Olmos's  character is dead'.
-Yikes.  How these HNR guys like Koenigrules got into "news" source positions, I do not know.  But it all seems to make sense now.  By the way, has anyone else actually listened to his appearanced on Subject2Discussion, such as the most recent one about "Precipice"?  At the end, he literally says "'''BSG would be great with a smaller cast and more special effects.  More people will spread through word of mouth that there are great special effects, and ratings will go up"'''--->One of the central tenants of the [[Naturalistic science fiction]] underlying BSG is that it focuses on *many characters and their fleshed out interactions*, as opposed to the emphasis on flashy special effects which ruined Star Trek.
+Here is a thought. The cylon bodies that are waiting to be downloaded into have to be grown, right? Maybe they stopped the growth process of a Six, and that is where Kacey came from? Just another "could be." in the BSG world.--[[User:CylonGod|CylonGod]] 00:17, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
+:Nice thought, but what indicator is there that the bodies of Cylon agents have to be grown?  IIRC, Starbuck's flyby of the [[Resurrection Ship]] only showed adult Sixes in their vats.  It could be that they're constructed as adults from the get-go and not aged from a fetal core.--<font color="#4b0082">[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''</font> 13:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
-I do not want to drag ''BattlestarWiki'' into this, and I must admit it is very unsavory to do.  But if any of you have listened to the "reports" he gives S2D, I believe you will agree, that something must be done.  He is feeding wrong information to S2D, presenting it as fact, and as he has duped S2D into believing him, because S2D (a reliable news source) reports it, other cites like Gateworld and Galacticastation then report it.  This is a serious problem.  I do not want to bring it up on BattlstarWiki again, and I think it most unsavory that I have to be saying these things at all.  But I'd prefer finding out the TRUTH about BSG, and verifying our sources like good wikipedians, instead of standing around and doing nothing.  Updates as I get them.  Five by Five.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 22:22, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
+:In [[Rapture|Rapture (Season 3, Episode 12)]], Sharon Agathon tells us that Cylons have medical experience only with the adult humanoids of their kind. This suggests that they do not grow, but are constructed as adults. [[User:Dogger55|Dogger55]] 06:51, 9 July 2011 (EDT)
-:I'm perfectly happy with a blanket policy against citing Koenigrules or HNR. How do others feel about promulgating this on <del>Battlestar Wiki:Spoiler Policy</del>[[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad]]? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:49, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
+== Citations ==
-::I agree on principle, but I'd have agreed if only to say "Let it be promulgated." Oops, I meant "So say we all." --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:22, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
+I added citations but it somehow made the spoiler text unreadable. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:56, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
-:::I'll open a proper vote there with the relevant information. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:25, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
+:I noted this and was unsuccessful in adding them back myself as I was massively concising the article while you made the attempt. I am adding the links here (WARNING: These links go to interviews that contain spoilers and, as with the technical issues, can't be hidden.)
+:*[http://www.mediablvd.com/magazine/Magazine-Home/MBMag_20060420145.html comments from Grace Park], [http://z9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=5610 Dean Stockwell], and [http://z9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=5655 Tricia Helfer]
-:::Peter, more importantly, I have secured MY OWN interview on Subject2Discussion this Tuesday April 25, due to my capacity as official spokesperson for the [[Golden Toaster Awards]]. I plan on getting my foot in the door in the first interview, talking about the GTAs and ****Promoting BattlestarWiki; FOR TOO LONG have we been the "little secret" of BSG on the internet; many sites use us as a news source, MOST of the messageboard users I've met either use us, or have begun to use us after following my advise. We do most of the work and too little of the credit. I want to start speaking for ''BattlestarWiki'' as well. That's what my first interview will cover, I hope it's succesful. In my second one, first week of May, I intend to expose Koenigrules----->do I have permission to say "**'''BattlestarWiki'''** has a standing policy not to trust *anything* Koenigrules says, or his website HNR". Do I have permission to use the weight of BattlestarWiki behind me? If you tell me not to, I will try to use the weight of BSWiki; although I will still mention, just annectodally as a fan, that this site doesn't trust him:  **We have the chance to make a real change here guys. Can I actually say "BattlestarWiki condemns his "Spoilers" as blatantly false, speculation or stolen? or some variation of all of this. Because ***if you tell me to TONE DOWN the BattlestarWiki connection I WILL. If you don't want to get involved in this, I will just say that yes, I am a prolific editor at BSWiki and that BSWiki has even stopped trusting him. But would you like me to condemn him? (Maybe not "condemn" your choice of words); if we can expose this man who has been playing Subject2Discussion for fools for the past ''year'', it might be a real boon to the street cred of BattlestarWiki. I will obey your decision. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:31, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
+:--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:05, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
-::::I'm basically opposed to anybody but Joe speaking as the single voice of the wiki, and even then only under extraordinary circumstances. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:36, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
+::Does anyone have the copies of Battlestar Galactica Magazine so we can create official cites? I know these articles exist. but we really need the official "cite". --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:00, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::Agree. Linking to a members-only message board is hardly satisfactory. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 03:54, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
+:::Concur. I have the July issue and will look for the comments. I may have the Grace Park issue as well to confirm. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:37, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
+::::Fairly sure that  the Dean Stockwell comments are in the last issue, 7. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:26, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
-:::::Absolutely correct.  Others should chime in on whether they agree or disagree so we can have an informed dialogue going, but I want to know what Joe thinks.  It is his site, and his prerogative.  By his command.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:42, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
+The citations linked above have all been deleted, and were never accessible to non-members in the first place. If the comments referring to these articles are to continue in the main namespace, then citations from the BSG magazine (or another appropriate source) must be supplied promptly. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:53, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
-::::::You could just say 'Active member of BSG Wiki along with other people that contribute to the site...' if Joe does not get back to you in time. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 01:10, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
-:::::::He could, but I hope he doesn't. Strictly as a matter of ettiquette, I think it would be bad idea to attack the host's other guests, and it has the potential to reflect poorly on both Merv and the BSG wiki as a whole. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:21, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
-::::::::Totally agree, but if you don't stand up for people reading directly off your site without citeing the infromation as KR did, I would (but I will not) get the infomation out that he is just gathering "info" from a muliatude of sites and that his "listeners" should go to those sites that he read off, either Gateworld, scifi, or here. What would stop someone else from doing it in the future. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 01:25, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
-:::::::::He'll probably keep doing it anyway. The best way to undermine his credibility is by being more timely, better sourced, and more accurate than he is. Even if he rips us off, at least we'll have the advantage of naming our sources; if he names his sources too, then we won't have anything left to complain about. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:34, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
-Here's what I think... I don't mind Merv stating that Koenigrules information is ripped from other sites (this is true), and I don't mind him saying that we don't source his information -- '''because''' we ourselves avoid citing information that comes from dubious, unverifiable sources. Therefore, I am in support of putting KR (and, to an extent, HNR) on a blacklist of sites we don't source.
+Here's an example that still works: http://galactica-station.blogspot.com/2006/09/six-shooter_115935580941130304.html
+I wish I could give a citation from the magazine, but I don't have any issues of it. Could someone please do that? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:44, 29 October 2006 (CST)
-If Merv is to point out anything, it's how KR gets his information and how unreliable some of his information is (i.e. the Hot Dog thing) and how inspecific his information is (it's generic information, really, and gives no other details).  No matter how bad KR is with his so-called "reporting", we should never resort to ad hominem attacks.  Period. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 08:21, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
+Ahem, has no one noticed the above? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 09:22, 8 November 2006 (CST)
-:Can we move this entire conversation into its own thread? --[[User:Peter StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 09:45, 20 April 2006 (PST)
+== Cylon on Cylon action ==
-I dislike having to add more information to this, but I asked a user that has been on the official messageboard since the Miniseries, and they gave me this ''very'' informative summation of Koenigrules' history:
+Boomer's destruction of the basestar is a bad example, as being a sleeper agent she didn't have the cultural taboo active, and her success appears to have been instrumental in getting her in position to accomplish her mission. I'd use an example of known Cylon on known Cylon on that bullet (which I don't have off the top of my head). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
+:Agreed. That doesn't really make any sense. There might be Caprica-Sharon shooting a Six in "33", but one could argue that that doesn't count, because it was necessary. However, she does shoot another Sharon in "[[Colonial Day]]". -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
+::How about Caprica-Sharon using a Heavy Raider to shoot the crap out of some Centurions in [[The Farm]]? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 18:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
+:::We're talking humanoid Cylons here. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:04, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
+::::Not according to the quote, which says "Cylon-on-Cylon violence". But even then, Caprica-Sharon shot a fellow Sharon in [[Colonial Day]]. D'Anna's statement may not be true, but she has no way of knowing that. The nuke in the basestar was done by a sleeper agent and had been ordered by a human, the Sharon in Colonial Day never saw her attacker, the Centurions who were shot to pieces in [[The Farm]] didn't resurrect (since they have no biological components, I think it's reasonable to assume Centurions have no conciousness and therefore don't download) and the Heavy Raider involved in that incident was taken to ''Galactica'' and never got a chance to communicate with the Cylons. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 19:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
+::::::She is referring to the attack on her in "Downloaded" and from their point of view, the humanoids ''are'' the Cylon. So by context, she's just talking about the humanoid models. You're right about the limited knowledge though. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
-:"When the show started in the UK, several of us discovered bittorrent and downloaded the episodes. At the time Koenigrules never gave out spoilers. When the series started in the US, of course you could get spoilers by reading the threads opened by the british and those who had downloaded the episodes.
+::::Even though the others did not witness Caprica-Sharon shooting a fellow Sharon, the dead Sharon would have resurrected. Given that the Cylons were engaged in an extensive manhunt for Helo and Caprica-Sharon, it stretches credibility to suggest that she would not have reported the shooting when she returned.  D'Anna immediately recognizes Caprica-Sharon when she catches her [[Exodus,_Part_I|taking the launch keys]], so it does seem odd that D'Anna would not know that significant detail of Caprica-Sharon's history. [[User:Dogger55|Dogger55]] 12:43, 6 July 2011 (EDT), Revised 03:56, 7 July 2011 (EDT)
-:KR became a spoiler source during the hiatus to the second season, and he usually gave them in the S2D show. They weren't neither memorable nor rather long. Just a line or two. Most of the times he stepped in as some sort of "source confirmation". Your fight with him on this issue is old and many people have claimed the same things that you claim. KR has always stated that he contacts the production team, usually the PR office, and that he has somebody in the crew that gives him some spoilers.
+== This guide... ==
-:During the first season, he was the one who claimed that Dirk Benedict was going to be the Cylon God. An ugly flame war started between the TOaSters and him. Later they laughed at him when it didn't happen, but somehow he was vindicated when RDM said in his blog that indeed he had considered Dirk Benedict for that role but later on he dropped it altoghether.
+Is just plain bad. We need to expand, cleanup, and fix up! All people who have the Season 3 disc set, load this disc up and fix! Make it Act 1, etc. etc. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 22:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
+:Yeah, I noticed that too. We didn't really do such extremely detailed summaries back then, but even for that time it seems lacking. The Analysis section could also be improved. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
-:My opinion regarding KR? He has access to some (if not all) the casting "sides" before everybody else, which is where he gets his information. The rest are just plain wild ass guess on his part.  As for Tigh losing an eye. I would keep it as unconfirmed rumor, it could very well be a typo after all."
+== trucks ==
-(I couldn't just link it sorry, it was in an e-mail).  This really solidifies my belief that his "spoilers" consist of listing off the one or two sentence plot points he can glean from available online sources.  I do not intend to attack "the messenger" Joe, I assure you:  What outraged me was ***not so much that he takes material from our site and others, but that he is ***Reporting his '''speculation''' as if it is FACT, and as a result other web sites like Gateworld have been reporting it as fact.  I don't really mind that he is reporting what he sees on messageboards and such.  It's that he's reporting his *opinions* as fact, and then claiming to have a non-existant "inside source" which has fooled everyone into thinking his position is legitimate.  I will handle the situation maturely.  Though I must admit, it is hard to avoid his character....when his character and behavior is what we question.  Nonetheless, I really want to handle this delicately.  But it ''must'' be done.  Thank you for your support.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:14, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
+Where did the trucks come from? What ship in the colonial or cylon fleet would have trucks aboard and for what purpose? Could they have been designed and built within the 15 months on the planet? They also look remarkably "Earth" like, perhaps more than any other design in the series. Therefore it would be appropriate and interesting to give these a mention. [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 14:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
+*Well, we've seen trucks in the series before on Caprica, so it's not a new development. There presence on New Caprica could be explained one of two ways:
+:# They were aboard a Colonial freighter that joined the Fleet—and if you really want to be a nerd about it, you could say that they were on the Colonial Movers ship. ;-)
+:# The Cylons built them. They had the resources to build the detention center and all that, and as such they would need equipment to do that (cranes, trucks, etc).
+:-- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
-:BTW, another message I got from a fan who's fanart was stolen by HNR (this is an arguement against HNR as a whole, not KR himself, but it does reflect on our opinion towards everyone associated with how that site works:
+*Settlers had trucks before the Cylons arrived. Near the beginning of [[Scar]], trucks are moving on the asteroid surface beneath the ore mining ship [[Majahual]]. You first see a truck on New Caprica near the end of [[Lay_Down_Your_Burdens,_Part_II|Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]], as the camera first pans out of the window of Colonial One, and other trucks are seen as the camera moves overhead to show the entire settlement. Galactica or Pegasus may have had trucks for invasion purposes, but we didn't see them because they weren't needed before they settled on New Caprica. American naval forces in WW2, for example, carried land vehicles to various island landings in the Pacific and to the D-Day landing in Normandy. Also, many domestic manufacturers were converted to military production during WW2, so perhaps Adama did the reverse and used Viper manufacturing facilities to make trucks for the settlers. [[User:Dogger55|Dogger55]] 10:52, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
-::"Sounds about right. I've asked these guys a few times not to use my art and '''they told me to screw myself '''... along wiht some descriptions about how I actually deserved to be dumped on for being such a creep so why was I bothering them in the first place. Not so much as a credit line from these people.
-::To be fair, its my understanding that KR did ask them to remove it but that request fell flat on its face. I place this at others feet. I don't blame KR for this theft.
-::However, '''Michael Hinman''' did once again tell me that '''I should be honored they stole from me''', which is a common theme with that guy and not the first time he's been involved in my stuff getting swiped and misused. '''He's got a conception that everything he's involved in is so terrific that if he or another person on the team steal your stuff, you should be thrilled they thought to steal from you'''. Strange thinking in my book but I never did understand Hinman."   --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:39, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
+:: Those were [[landram]]s, and they were featured in "[[Razor]]" in one of ''Pegasus''' landing bays as well, but you make a very good point. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 13:00, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
-:::Please don't get me started on Hinman... What I will say, however, is that his belief that it is an "honor" to steal from others chimes with my view of him.  This is mainly because I had worked with him before (more than six years ago, now than I think about it), and yes his thinking is unique in the universe, to state the least. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 23:56, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
-::::You have worked with him....''before''? Don't tell me that you were both once the best of friends until one day it became clear that while you believe that Scifi Fans should work towards tolerance and peaceful co-existance with baseline humans, he believed that Scifi Fans will always be repressed by baseline humans and felt that one day we must rise up against them?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 00:01, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
+::Near the end of [[Unfinished_Business_(Extended_Version)|Unfinished Business (Extended)]], a truck goes by in the background after Adama tells Lee that Kara just got married. In the DVD/Blu-Ray Commentary, Ron Moore and editor Michael O'Halloran say that the settlers had trucks and the one in that scene justified the use of trucks in "Precipice". [[User:Dogger55|Dogger55]] 15:36, 8 July 2011 (EDT)
-:::::Actually, I did believe he had been a friend of mine.  I'm not going to drag out the dirty laundry that I have long since burned, but your view of his general attitude does jive with mine, now that I think about it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 00:07, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
-::::::I was just comparing you guys to Prof. X and Magneto :)  You've left us all pretty intrigued.  But you don't need to elaborate more if you don't want to.  You're Prof X right?  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 00:17, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
+== Cylon numbers revealed? ==
+I just noticed that when the cylons vote aboard Colonial One, they do so in numerical order. Coincidence, or first hint? Is it worth mentioning? [[User:Caldumidoan|Caldumidoan]] 09:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::Yikes, have you heard the April 18th interview he gave?  He didn't know who [[Duck]] was, and then he blatantly ADMITS to just reciting that magazine interview that Katee Sackhoff recently gave, which I *JUST* posted up on our news page! (source link is in there).  I mean he flat out said "did you read this newsmagazine, Katee said..."....and acts like he's a fantastic source of exclusive information.  And yikes is he slow; he kept making stupid duck jokes after being told who "Duck" was. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 00:27, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
-::::::::::Dear....God.....at the end of April 18 he goes "Are there really 12 Cylon Models" even though Moore has said there's only 12....and he THINKS BALTAR IS A CYLON....he even acknowledges that Moore has stated repeatedly that Baltar IS a human...and his response to this is "well for all we know Ron Moore is lying".....yikes.  On top of that, we've seen that they can't be, as Cylons are not copies of people and have only existed for a few years.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 00:36, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
-::::::::Haven't listened to the interview.  I'll see if I can listen to it later. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 00:45, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
-::A number of months ago, Koenigrules posted on Ragnar Anchorage that the Cylon point-of-view episode was cancelled. I pointed out that, logically, it couldn't have been cancelled due to another poster's reported on-set experience (s/he lives in the Vancouver area, I'm drawing a blank as to their screen-name - something like Yuri unless I'm misremembering). Everyone believed Koenigrules, though. Later, when I pointed out he had been wrong, he said that a different Cylon point-of-view episode had been cancelled, which was really just a theory I myself had come up earlier as an explanation - as we did know that an episode had indeed been cancelled, due  to Downloaded being referred to as "2-17, which will really be 2-18" during the afforementioned on-set visit. He did not know the truth, which came out in the RDM podcast -  that the cancelled episode was to have been a clip show. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:37, 21 April 2006 (EST)
-:::That's actually a pretty good point.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:02, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
-:::So KOENIGRULES was the source of that misinformation? I argued against that for quite a while, based on episode-number evidence. Nobody would believe me. Probably because of KR's reputation.--[[User:Dogger|Dogger]] 23:04, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
-::::I shouldn't wonder if he wasn't also responsible for the mixed-up spoilers we received for Lay Down Your Burdens. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 9:47, 22 April 2006 (EST)
-::::I'm confused how he ever got that position in the first place Dogger: he was just "some guy" who showed up one day one the radio show that I listened to every now and again when a BSG cast member was on (which I gradually started listeninng to more after that). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:19, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
-== Define: Precipice ==
-Definitions of Precipice on the Web:
-# a very steep cliff
-# a high, sheer cliff
-# Stepping down from spiritual heights to physical manifestation.
--- Very Interesting, --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 08:29, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
-==Production Number==
-What's up with "Episode 1.5"? Shouldn't this count as episode 2 of the season, even if it's being aired as a 2-hour premiere? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:53, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-:Thats what ive always said, but for some reason all the episode numbering is messed up. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 04:35, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-:The writers officially count "Occupation / Precipice" as one episode. Bradley Thompson said that there will probably be only one intro. So "Precipice" still belongs to episode 1 (hence 1.5) and Season 3 only has 19 episodes on paper --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-::However, in terms of budgeting and production, "Occupation/Precipice" was 3.01 and 3.02, while "Exodus, Part I" and "Exodus, Part II" were both 3.03. Clearly our numbering system shouldn't reflect the vagaries of production, or else both parts of "Resurrection Ship" would be episodes 2.11 and Season 2 would only have 19 episodes.
-::At the same time, we should ask - were "Occupation" and "Precipice" truly edited into a single episode, or is SciFi simply airing two episodes back to back on premiere night? In the event of the former, there should be a single entry for both "Occupation" and "Precipice". In the latter, they should retain separate entries, and each should have their own episode number (and none of this "1.5" business). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:34, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
-:::FWIW, [http://www.scifi.com/schedulebot/index.php3?date=6-OCT-2006&feed_req SciFi's schedule] has the premiere listed as a single two-hour block under the title "The Occupation/Precipice". I'd lay good money on them splitting it into two episodes for syndication, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:37, 3 October 2006 (CDT)