Difference between revisions of "Talk:Hero"

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(DVD audio commentary: Actually it's done, and he doesn't mention it, so never mind)
 
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==Unrealistic Transfers==
 
I added this text regarding the notion of Gaeta or Tyrol being transferred between Galactica and Valkyrie with Adama back to the article, after [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] removed it:
 
:''This scenario is highly unrealistic, however...''
 
While I readily admit that the content is subjective, I think in its given context and purpose (that is, debunking attempts at fanwanking the discontinuity by altering Gaeta and Tyrol's established histories), it's an important statement. Part of the reason we adopted this analysis in the first place was to avoid the accumulation of fancruft at both the [[Felix Gaeta]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] articles (see [[Talk:Timeline (RDM)#"Hero" Timeline Issues, revisited]]). I feel that to that end, the statement should be allowed to stand. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:57, 6 February 2008 (CST)
 
::Indeed, it is also possible to create a situation of anti-fanwanking, which is to categorically rule out *plausible* scenarios.  Is it unheard of for the guy/gal at the top to "bring along" trusted and key people wherever he or she goes?  How long has Tigh served as right-hand man to Adama?  Cain and Belzen had known each other and worked together for years.  And sometimes its less useful to try to intuit, infer, or out-of-hand dismiss inconsistencies as contrary to what *must* be correct, than to just document and note the inconsistencies and errors, which may or may not be addressed by the ultimate authorities -- the show and its writers.  Sometimes the thing is what it is ... and we are along for the ride.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 21:13, 6 February 2008 (CST)
 
:::While I would like to agree with you Fred, the fact of the matter is that Adama ''botched'' the mission. As a result (and per Eick's comments from the [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion Season Three|season three companion]]), his assignment to ''Galactica'' was as ''punishment''. Therefore, any request to the Colonial Fleet for personnel transfers would have likely been railroaded, simply out of spite and politics -- and logically, you don't move junior officers. You might move Tigh as well, but not Gaeta, Tyrol, or Boomer. It simply wouldn't happen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:18, 6 February 2008 (CST)
 
::::Loyalty can go both ways -- "follow you through hell and high water" -- they could have followed him on their own.  They certainly have strong enough attachments and allegiances, more out of respect for the man and not just the rank.  And since following a disgraced commander to a soon-to-be-mothballed battlestar is conceivably a low-prestige posting, I doubt there was much competition.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 21:28, 6 February 2008 (CST)
 
::::I disagree ... Adama did not botch the mission, rather the mission did not turn out as planned, and Adama took the fall, probably set up as the patsy as Roslin suggests.  And like a good soldier, Adama fell on his sword for executing an ill-advised and provocative mission.  But my main point (about the plausibility) still stands, his crew could have chosen to stick with him from one post to another, if he would have them along.  And I don't see how taking out the comment of unrealism substantially took away from the factual basis of the sentence.  Sometimes we make way too many assumptions, and similar to nature, fandom often hates the absence of neatly-fiitting facts ...-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 21:38, 6 February 2008 (CST)
 
 
:I acknowledge Eick's comments, and it's nice that they thought about it, but it still doesn't make all that much sense. There are two scenarios:
 
#Adama only transferred to ''Galactica'' after the ''Valkyrie'' mission. That still contradicts other statements that Valerii and Thrace served there under him for two years.
 
#Adama and Tigh went to ''Valkyrie'' for a special mission and then back. First, it should have been stated that way. Second, there is no reason for Adama to conduct that mission. It could have been done by ''Valkyrie'''s commander. And from a real-world POV, they could have just used ''Galactica''. There was no reason to introduce another battlestar. So 1.) makes more sense.
 
:As for the comment. I don't really have a problem either way. I do consider it unrealistic that so many people transferred with Adama, but the removal doesn't hurt the argument that much.  -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 03:58, 7 February 2008 (CST)
 
 
::How about this version of 2:
 
:::The new ship Valkyrie was attached temporarily to BSG 95 (or formed some other more transient two-battlestar group with Adama in command), partly as a shakedown cruise, and partly to get Galactica's crew acquainted with the ship that was intended to be many of their new postings (and Adama's new command) after Galactica's decommissioning. As such, the crew is made up of many of Galactica's personnel. Galactica, already practically obsolete, is left to serenely orbit Caprica with an almost skeleton crew whilst the superior ship Valkyrie conducts a few useful missions.
 
:::After the disastrous reconnaissance mission Adama and Tigh (and by extension the rest of the crew they bought with), are punished by being pushed back onto the "sinking ship" of Galactica (it being a black-op they couldn't punish them overtly) so the old commander can be retired without any fuss.
 
::It's [[fanwanking]] I know, but the producers probably have a viable backstory as well, and Eick seems to be fairly confident of it. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 06:19, 7 February 2008 (CST)
 
:::These types of explanations introduce numerous plot points that strain credibility and have no external justification, just to defend a blatant continuity error - this is fanwanking in the worst way. The simplest way to deal with this is just to change the dates from dialogue to match the dossier, which is already a canon document anyway. Occam's razor should prevail here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:13, 10 February 2008 (CST)
 
::::I know, I know, I was just trying to prove a point that there are probably thousands of similar ''somewhat''-feasible explanations. Our problem here that Occam's razor gets a bit blunt when [[David Eick]] ''specifically denies'' that they have a continuity error. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 05:01, 11 February 2008 (CST)
 
:::::More like he ''believes'' - strongly - that there isn't one. But I think they overlooked the many statements about how long Adama spent with other people on ''Galactica''. By moving the mission a few years back, everything makes perfect sense. I also like that ''Galactica'' was supposed to be a punishment and a way to quietly end his career. Just not at that time. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:37, 11 February 2008 (CST)
 

Latest revision as of 18:24, 28 March 2008