Talk:The Fleet (RDM)/Archive1

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Alphabetization

If nobody objects, I think I'm goign to alphabetize the list of ships here in the next week or so. There's nothing wrong with how it is now, except that it looks a little chaotic.

Also - when do we think it's safe to integrate the "Lay Down Your Burdens" ships (seen only on the voting board) with the rest of the ships? Now? A few months? Begining of S3? I'm interested to hear any opinions. Brecchie 20:43, 6 April 2006 (CDT)

I think it's OK as long as there's reference to them only seen on the voting board in LYBD2. -StrayCat0 19:12, 6 April 2006 (PST)

Alphabetization vs. Ship type sorting

I think we should revert to sorting these alphabetically, rather than by ship type, because users searching for a ship they hear mentioned might not know what type of ship it is. Alphabetical would be more useful. --The Merovingian (C - E) 21:17, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

Well, I was always looking at it in abject confusion as I tried to sort out which ships originated from scifi.com, and which were their aired equivalents (Celestra vs. Striker, Flattop vs. Virgon Express). It was especially difficult to navigate with all the mentioned-only ships from LDYB2 floating around in and among the more relevant entries. --Peter Farago 22:37, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
I am still uncertain. Regardless, much will be sorted out when the Season 2.5 DVD's arrive. --The Merovingian (C - E) 23:01, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

As high as 90

Wickedsteve writes: "[The number of ships in the fleet] may be as high as 90."

Can I please ask for your source? --Peter Farago 21:33, 15 May 2006 (CDT)

Possible Fleet Pics

group, jump, movers, galactica park, side fleet.

Here are some possible shots for this article, including one suggested by Spencerian over at Galactica (RDM)'s discussion page. All obtained from Galacticastation, so we'd need to either upload them as is, or capture them in an alternative format if more quality is needed. --Steelviper 13:46, 12 June 2006 (CDT)
I put up the one fleet pic we have highlighting the enterprise. Perhaps Ford can grab a few decent HD shots --Mercifull 14:33, 12 June 2006 (CDT)
Didn't you also wipe out the list of mentioned ships and all the demographics stuff? --Steelviper 14:37, 12 June 2006 (CDT)
wth?, my pc is cutting off stuff when i go to edit. Seems to just cut off stuff past a certain number of characters. I'll restart. --Mercifull 15:00, 12 June 2006 (CDT)
Well that was weird? Seems to have fixed it now. --Mercifull 15:03, 12 June 2006 (CDT)

Ships seen in "LDYB"

With the release of the DVDs, it is easier for us to determine what the names of the ships are. However, with this arises the concern of having microstubs on ships. If it is all right with everyone, I think it might be best to create a "List of Fleet ships (RDM)" for those ships that we've seen on the tally boards on LDYB, and have the names of the ships as redirects to said article. Thoughts? -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 17:00, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Sounds good to me. If a ship becomes more important in the future, and article can be done and redirected to it. --FrankieG 17:28, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
Doesn't this article already serve that purpose? --Peter Farago 17:53, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
True. What I'm trying to see is whether or not the microstubs would be best turned into redirects to a list of ships, of which we know next to nothing about, such as those from LYDB. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 17:55, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
Shouldn't we have some side page for them because their could be other names we missed. CoreyDanian
I think we could simply have all these ships that we don't know anything about redirect to this page. I don't think that a separate List Of Ships page is necessary as it seems to me as redundant. --Straycat0 20:05, 3 October 2006 (AST)

Ships in the fleet

Shouldn't the TR-61482, a cargo transport that looks like Kimba Huta be in the list and Gemenon Traveler picture be changed? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CoreyDanian (talk • contribs).

What episode was TR-61482 featured in? What's wrong with the picture of the Gemenon Traveler? --Peter Farago 18:30, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
The TR-61482 was the transport in the mini-series that the Gemenon Traveler page is using. And with the Gemenon Traveler picture, have you seen the real Gemenon Traveler used in "Flesh and Bone". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CoreyDanian (talk • contribs).
Where did this name come from? Was is mentioned in dialogue or in writing? --Mercifull (Talk/Contribs) 03:41, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
It's visible on the publicity render. I don't think that merits it an article. --Peter Farago 11:46, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Why not? It is a ship that has been seen with a name. By the way, has someone seen "Flesh and Bone" and checked Gemenon Traveller?--CoreyDanian

Yes, I have. Why do you ask? --Peter Farago 00:45, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
Can someone get a picture of the Gemenon Traveler from Flesh and Bone then?--CoreyDanian 10.31 24 October 2006
Yeah, I'll get one before I sack out tonight. --Talos 19:52, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
Hey, I just did alot of editing for this page by updating some information. Can someone also double check "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II" for Hittes Kan and Tarbadecks spelling cause I think they are actually called Hitei Kan and Tarbadek. P.S. For a picture of the yellow vessel blown up in the Cloud Nine explosion, check Act of Contrition, Miniseries, Night 2 (as you see above the Botanical Cruiser), Flesh and Bone, Scattered and Black Market. My computer doesn't have the tech to get screenshots from the DVDs to Computer.--CoreyDanian 16.15 Saturday 10 November 2007
Hey I just checked for you with my Hi-Def and you're right on both counts. Interestingly enough, the Tarbadek is actually out of alphabetical order on Roslin's board. Using both the vote tally board, and the one on Colonial One, I found some others that need changing. For instance, the Picon Express is actually the Picon Princess. There is another ship on Roslin's board that is clearly not the Mutem Wia, but I can't make it out (right column, second down). The Chiron is actually the Chrion. I see a completely new one called the Azemenarius below the Astral Queen but because it's so hard to read I need conformation on that before it becomes an article. The Bretan looks more to me like the Breton.--OrionFour 23:59, 9 November 2007 (CST)
That also fits with this behind the scenes photograph of a clipboard with some of the names. The thing is that "Chiron" fits well with a character from Greek mythology, while "Chrion" doesn't. On the other hand, it's pronounced as "Chrion" in "The Passage", so I'll change that too --Serenity 10:23, 10 November 2007 (CST)
Interesting, the Hyrrokin is actually a figure in Norse mythology. That photo is a wealth of information. Too bad we can't use it for more than reference. Can we at least use the population counts of the ships listed? --OrionFour 14:31, 10 November 2007 (CST)
Hey I still need an admin to move "Hittes Kan" to "Hitei Kan", and "Tarbadeck" to "Tarbadek". Thanks! --OrionFour 17:34, 11 November 2007 (CST)
I've given you move permissions, so you can make those changes. ;-) Just simply hit the "move" tab and follow the wizard. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New 18:37, 11 November 2007 (CST)
Thank you!!! That means a lot. I'll get right on it.--OrionFour 21:34, 11 November 2007 (CST)
Question, Why is Chrion placed in her new position on the list if there is no picture? Besides, why do you think Chrion is a passenger liner, we only know that Thera Sita could be a transport-freighter because the shot zoomed in on Apollo's Raptor. P.S. Someone download a picture for Thera Sita.--Corey Danian 13.25 25 November 2007
Well i think what's important is whether or not the ship is seen on screen, not necessarily if we have a picture for it, and in that regard, the Chrion is a special case. If you watch "The Passage", in the scene with the Thera Sita, you can barely see the Chrion just before Kat says that she's "got eyes for the Chrion". It's the part where you can see her Raptor from the outside, and you can hear her talking, there is the rear of a barely visible ship in the haze. You see enough of it to recognize that it's one of those luxury liners. Additionally, when the Raptors are lining up before the jump, one of them appears to be escorting the solid orange luxury liner, meaning that one of them was on the first jump. The visual from the episode where it is verified is too bad to put on the site, and we cannot positively verify that the orange luxury liner we see before the jump is the Chrion (two of them could very well have gone in), although it's very likely. But yeah we do need a pic for Thera Sita. --OrionFour 23:38, 24 November 2007 (CST)
I just watched Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II again and confirmed that Azmerak is actually Azmenarius. Can someone deleted Azmerak so we don't confuse anyone?--CoreyDanian 14.50 November 28 2007
Hey, I watched Maelstrom with subtitles and Helo told Starbuck that he was taking Hera to a psychiatrist on the Inchon Velle! So that would confirm that Incron Velle is the wrong spelling. Can someone change that around so to confirm it was in the fleet as of Season 3.--CoreyDanian 2 January 2008 20.53 CST
Done. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New 21:06, 2 January 2008 (CST)

Cleanup idea

I think we need to update it to show which ships have been confirmed as been in the fleet as of Season 3. Much Like this;
Astral Queen (by sight) (Crossroads, Part II)
Celestra (by sight) (Crossroads, Part II)
Chrion (by sight) (Crossroads, Part II)
Colonial One (Crossroads, Part II)
Cybele (mentioned) (Crossroads, Part II)
Daru Mozu (Crossroads, Part I) Demetrius (Season 4 (2008))
Faru Sadin (mentioned) (The Passage)
Galactica (Crossroads, Part II)
Gemini (by sight) (Crossroads, Part II)
Gideon (mentioned) (The Son Also Rises)
Greenleaf (mentioned) (Crossroads, Part I)
Inchon Velle (mentioned) (Maelstrom)
Monarch (by sight) (Crossroads, Part II)
Prometheus (Crossroads, Part II)
Pyxis (Crossroads, Part II)
Space Park (by sight) (Crossroads, Part II)
Striker (by sight) (Crossroads, Part II)
Thera Sita (by sight) (Crossroads, Part II)
Zephyr (mentioned) (The Son Also Rises)
A list for those destroyed or missing or evacuated

Pegasus destroyed in the Battle of New Caprica (Exodus, Part II)
Cloud Nine destroyed over New Caprica (Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II)
Olympic Carrier destroyed by Vipers (33)
Botanical Cruiser destroyed by Cylon Raiders (Miniseries)
Gemenon Liner 1701 evacuated by Colonial One (Miniseries)

And a list for those unknown —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CoreyDanian (talk • contribs).

I don't think that's necessary. Unless they are specifically mentioned destroyed, they can be assumed to to still exist. Yes, some were lost on New Caprica, but your list is just as incomplete, only in another way. The information just isn't that useful IMO. --Serenity 03:11, 9 January 2008 (CST)
Thinking about this again, maybe the following would be neat. Take a look at Razor and note the "Razor DVD Only" template. We could have such a thing for the ships. One with "Destroyed" and maybe one with "Confirmed survived" or some such, if anyone else thinks that that information would be worthwhile to have. I'm not sure if it's possible to use colors, but red/orange vs. green might look good here to distinguish the two. --Serenity 16:42, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Ship Populations

By adding up the votes on the tally boards in Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II, we could get lower estimates on the populations of the ships. Is this a good idea, or would we be inferring too much from too little? (Interestingly, the Demetrius has a population of at least 530) screencap OTW 16:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to bump this 'cos I think it could be kinda big. Another interesting thing is that the Gemenon Traveller votes overwhelmingly in favour of Roslin (presumably for religious reasons) OTW 09:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Funny that Galactica also has a pretty good majority for Roslin. --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 09:44, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I think it would be taking the numbers a little too seriously. The prop/art department probably just made stuff up and paid attention that it adds up at the end. But if a later script referenced a ship population, I'm not sure that it would jibe. Although the writers clearly use that list of ships to take names from, we don't know if it includes the population numbers as well. Might be something to ask Bradley, but we can't expect a quick answer there. -- Serenity 10:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
The point is we don't really know how realistic the Demetrius figure is. The ship might be roomier than what we've seen thus far, and it might also have been overcrowded (the election was before the population fall due to the occupation of New Caprica). --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 10:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Maybe something to put in the "things that may as well be considered canonical if they haven't been contradicted by the end of the series" bucket? OTW 17:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
An idea! See if the votes from Pyxis add up to about 600. Unfortunately I haven't got a screencap with Pyxis' figures on it. OTW 17:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, that's not such a great idea... seeing as there's been a loss of 5,000 + people between LDYB and "Exodus, Part II" (as we've seen in "Crossroads, Part I"). So the numbers for all these ships will likely be higher on the voting tally boards. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 17:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

"Destroyed" template use

Whlle marking the destroyed ships is important, the use of the current template there, {{ShipDestroyed}}, creates an awkward sentence fragment, making it appear that "Destroyed" is part of the ship's name. The "Destroyed" item should have something to set it off. I recommend parentheses at least. Better: Place the "destroyed" marker at the end of the description, or use another symbol (perhaps a cross as used for deceased characters in its master template) instead. --Spencerian 04:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Look at that the template looks like in [{{fullurl:The Fleet (RDM)|useskin=bsgbook the old skin]. I think that's one of the looks we could go for. While probably unintentional, it works. --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 08:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, in the old skin, there was such a difference. When I borrowed the template from the Razor DVD one to use it here, I didn't realize that the other skin doesn't have a visual difference (I used bsgbook then). It's just a simple colored box around the text, which works very nicely. -- Serenity 10:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, Shane...! -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 14:50, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Time for cleanup

I do think we need to convert the list of ships into a table-chart, similar to what we have on List of Vipers. Frankly, a lot of the articles on the ships we have are merely one liners. For instance, a bulk of the individual articles on the ships simply state "this ship's name was seen on the whiteboard in blahblahblah but hasn't been seen yet", which is extremely repetitive, and would be better served in a table-format. (We had the same problem earlier with the List of pilots and with every pilot having a one-sentence entry in a separate article, which Serenity was able to rectify several months earlier.) Obviously, the ships of importance or uniqueness would retain their own separate articles. Thoughts? -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 21:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that always bugged me a bit. However, many of the ships also contain a note about the origin of the name, even if it's a one-liner otherwise. That would become lost in a merge. -- Serenity 09:56, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, a "notes" column would probably address that issue quite nicely. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 14:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Or "origin of name". I had the same thought after writing that. For the "mentioned only" table that is. The rest are more important and generally have their own articles. Mentioned only ships that can have an own article include Adriatic, Baah Pakal, Freighter 212, Greenleaf, Inchon Velle, Rising Star, Salpica and Zephyr. These are either more prominent and/or mentioned in dialogue, rather than just the voting board. -- Serenity 14:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Ditto. Basically, the prominent ones would have their own section while the rest (mentioned-onlys) would have another. Then I was thinking of a "destroyed" section, similar to what we have for List of Vipers and List of Raptors, which I just went through. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 14:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Bout time, I've been suggesting this since Razor.--Corey "Shadow" Danian 1.07, 16 June 2008 (CST)

Ok, I've started the cleanup process. I've organized the seen ships into a sortable table. Just need to work on all those pesky "mentioned only" ships, but that's for later. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 07:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll get to that soon. The page looks good, but the "last seen" column is kinda annoying. Before that, the text mentioned prominent appearances and the entry was maybe updated once or twice every season. Now the list appears to be an accounting of every on-screen appearance. But keeping that list up-to-date is both unnecessary and has very little benefit for too much work. Aside from the uncertainties of New Caprica, unless a ship is explicitly destroyed, it can be assumed to still exist. For me, the episode citations weren't so much about a detailed episode-by-episode score-keeping, but a pointer towards an episode where the ship can be seen well. -- Serenity 17:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Ditto about the last seen column. I was gonna go through and change it later to "First Introduced" (at least in the case of the active ships). The destroyed ships can keep the "last seen" thing. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 17:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Hey, I just looked at your revision of the fleet and you placed that Picon 36 was destroyed. According to it's dialogue, the captain told Colonial One that he can't believe he wanted to leave the sublight ships' population behind. Personally, I like Picon 36 and it may still be in the fleet, but it wasn't destroyed in the Miniseries.--Corey "Shadow" Danian 9.05pm June 16 2008 CST
It's not in the destroyed list, but in "mentioned only". If it were, it would have been an accident. Moving dozens of articles is hard work :s -- Serenity 06:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Daru Mozu destroyed? You idiots

Everyone is assuming that the Daru Mozu was destroyed prior to Dirty Hands when in actual fact it is seen in Guess What's Coming To Dinner, and The Hub. There has been two refinery ships in the fleet since Season 1. In Bastille Day, a shot of the fleet over kimiko showed two refinery ships with the second one over Galactica. Also in Occupation and all the way through the scenes of New Caprica and Galactica you can see two refinery ships; one on New Caprica (that could be Hitei Kan) and the other in space (Daru Mozu). Both survive even beyond the Ionian nebula battle, Hitei Kan has that hammerhead section while Daru Mozu looks the same. Someone fix that up.

Also I got number of ships in fleet as from The Farm and (not very good) Revelations: I counted the number of DRADIS points for ships (except the Vipers) from Gaeta's board in The Farm and got 44 contacts, meaning that 24 ships left and 44 remained at Galactica, giving 69 (Note: In Home, Part I, on Adama's board, I got 45 contacts + Galactica, leaving 70). In Revelations, I got between 38 and 42 contacts on the DRADIS board when the fleet had arrived at Earth. This means that around 71 ships was the total numbers of ships in the fleet prior to settlement on New Caprica and around 30 ships have been lost since then.

Also, I watched The Ties That Bind, and I thought I heard Roslin say the Picon delegate's name. She goes: "Jacob, Weiren (or Leiran), everyone please..." this was when they discussed Demetrius.--Corey "Shadow" Danian 20.52 18 August 2008

Corey, there's only one refinery ship in the Fleet as of Season 4. There may have been two earlier, but no longer. "Dirty Hands" also confirms this, since the strike affects the Hitei Kan, which is the refinery ship. (There may have been a retcon here. Or a simple production frakup.) -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 03:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Also, don't refer to the dradis... It's unreliable when determining ship count. ;-)
As for "The Ties That Bind", I'll check the script tomorrow for the name. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 03:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
There may certainly be some sort of production mishap here, but "Dirty Hands" just doesn't make any sense with two refinery ships (and no one doubts that there were two earlier). Not only do they only mention one, but there wouldn't be a crisis about the strike if there were two. As noted in the article, it can't be confirmed for sure, but it's very strongly implied. I had preferred things as they were and the episode itself doesn't identify the ship, but it was there in the bonus scene all along (which was released on SciFi.com and we all missed it). And that circumstantial evidence - from an integral story - just weighs more than special effects shots, which aren't that reliable by themselves. Maybe placing it in the "destroyed" section isn't right, but it doesn't really fit elsewhere either.
The only way out would be to assume that they deliberately removed the references to the Hitei Kan from the aired episode to leave it ambiguous. That would also explain the dubbing of Roslin's line. She says two words, which are probably the ship's name. And that would still leave us with the other refinery ship lost or destroyed. -- Serenity 12:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Re: "TTB"... the script says "Aaron" (SC 51, 2nd Green REv 7/4/07). -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus 15:37, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Mutem Wia

I think the ship Mutem Wia is a reference to a female member of a particular ancient Egyptian royal family, but this is the only source I can find that mentions her: http://books.google.com/books?id=MzVszHxO3JoC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=Mutem+Wia&source=bl&ots=RNoxmMSb71&sig=886fXFVZhSS32oRYQ1yo72DH_kg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA11,M1. --Kappamaki 00:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Fleet Picture

Can we maybe replace the picture of the fleet with one from recent episodes and maybe place current in a small box that says original fleet. Snr. Lt. Corey "Shadow" Danian (got promoted despite being 19) 05:42, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Kodiak=Yellow-hulled vessel?

I think that the Kodiak-type vessel and that yellow vessel i've been talking about for years are one in the same. Don't you think so? Snr. Lt. Corey "Shadow" Danian (got promoted despite being 19) 02:44, 29 March 2009 (UTC)